Simunition
 

Any of you folks have experience with this?

I was chatting with some old friends and one of them has been participating in training events (with military friends).

Looks costly.

http://www.simunition.com

Seems to be any more real and you're using real bullets.

Re: Simunition
 

I have simunition experience, it's bad-ass. Closest thing to being in a real gunfight. It hurts when you get hit too.

The other thing about simunitions, is that you are also very much hoping that the guy shooting at you hasn't accidentally put in a live round. That even more add to the intensity of the exercise. :)

Re: Simunition
 

Everything you wanted in a gunfight minus the medivac and flag draped coffin.

Hurts like hell and it will break skin so be carefull. I was going through a doorway and I took a point blank one to the neck, it dropped me and I coughed for about 20 minutes and had the worst hickey you had ever seen.

and don't be suprised when you get shot in the hands lots if your plate is squared off and you are in a good tuck.

Re: Simunition
 

One of the hits I took was right on the soft spot between two fingers. Man, that hurt, broke the skin.

Also, if you do simunitions, for God's sake, wear a cup. Protect your boys. I shudder the thought of taking a hit there.

Re: Simunition
 

Seems like those plastic rounds could really muck up a barrel and action no?

I noticed that the handguards on their rifles were blue - Dedicated for that purpose I assume.

Re: Simunition
 

You cannot fire live rounds with a simunition set up; uses a different slide / barrel set up for pistols and a different receiver / bolt / barrel set up for rifles. The simunitions that I have used in the military used a special necked down 9mm cartridge (used in both the rifle and pistol). If you were using a simunition set up and tried to insert a live round it would not chamber.

As others have said, it hurts when hit and can break the skin. We could not use them when the temp was below 52 degrees because the paint bullets would not smash on impact and could enter the skin. Several guys had to have them removed from their skin, went in about 1/4 inch.

As for any Joe walking in off the street to purchase a SIM setup it isnt going to happen. Unless something has changed since '06 they are a controlled item and it is easier to purchase a real firearm than a simunition gun or parts.

Re: Simunition
 

Interesting, we used glock 22's .40 cal with our simunitions and everything worked fine. We did not use rifles though. Perhaps they changed the setup. From what I was told, the purpose of simunitions was complete training, using our assigned firearms, that we were trained with.

We did a lot of situation training with simunitions, it was great fun, and a big challenge. Great learning experience though.

Re: Simunition
 

Simunition rounds - the blue round on the far right with the white 'band' is what we used. When the primer is fired the 'white part' is moved forward about 1/8 -3/16 of and inch, which provides the recoil to activeate the slide's reward movement. At the same time the paint bullet is launched down the barrel.
www.simunition.com/cartridges/fx_training_en.php


Pistol simunition kits. The M9 apparently only uses the barrel. I have only used the Glock kit which replaces the barrel and the slide.
http://www.simunition.com/conversion...pistols_en.php


Rifle Simunition upper. The kits we used during training used the 9mm simunition rounds with special 9mm (full sized) magazines.
http://www.simunition.com/conversion...on_kits_en.php


Again, even though it was 9mm it hurt like a b!tch. We were using full face/head masks and I was hit in the temple (didn't hurt), went down and then had a Soldier dump a full magazine into my back (to ensure that I was 'dead') which hurt like the afore mentioned b!tch (I had about 15-18 bruses stiched across my back).:confused_m: I was playing the OPFOR so I deserved it.

Re: Simunition
 

Dunno? I was learnt never to pull the trigger unless I meant it for real.

I guess if your on the Gov. payroll you could spray all you wanted.

Re: Simunition
 

I think you are right, and I stand corrected..perhaps the glock 22's we used were modified. I remember the instructers changing the slide to the blue colored ones. I just thought this was for identification purposes, maybe they changed the barrel too.

The gun had the same weight, dimensions, you'd never know. It fired exactly the same.

When you get shot at with simunitions, the velocity rate is very high. You hardly see the shot, it seems very real.

The soldier that shot you in the back 15 times, was that necessary? I had marks, but nothing like that!

Re: Simunition
 

Was it necessary? No. After I was hit I went down and did not move just so I wouldn't get 'shot' again.

Word got out and when we got off the range late that evening the Soldier's 1SG came and spoke to me about what happened and then ripped him a new one. The Battalion Commander also found out about it an made and issue of it. This was in 2005 after the incident in the mosque when the Soldier shot the wounded rag-head after he made a threatening move and the media was there to record it. The whole 'incident' was recorded by the cameras in the MOUT village and Battalion Commander received a copy - fun, fun.

Re: Simunition
 

I'm not saying it's bad for training but there's not really much you'll learn with simunitions that you can't also learn with airsoft for a lot less money and hassle. People always want to talk about pain in regards to simunitions. If you ever actually get shot there's a good chance you won't even feel it. In fact if you're ever in a gun fight check over your whole body for holes, just in case. Not just gun fights either, any kind of fight. That guy who was "punching" you may have actually had a knife. If it's pain you want they do make metal airsoft bb's. You'll feel it.

Re: Simunition
 

I really don't know much about airsoft and the 'markers' being used but there is plenty that you can get out of training with simunitions:

- Malfunction drills (tap, rack, bang)
- reloading, tac-reloading
- ammo management
- manipulation of the safety
- all of the above under the stress of not getting shot!

Re: Simunition
 

I'm not saying simunitions have no value I'm just saying you have to look at the cost to benefit. You can do a lot of airsoft force on force for the price of one simunitions session. Airsoft guns are pretty good these days, at least some are. The controls are all the same, dimensions and weights are so close they're indistinguishable, you change the mag the same way, etc. Paintball markers are variable. Some are nothing at all like real guns. Others are virtually identical and even feed from conventional type magazines. Between the two airsoft is the better simulator. More and more trainers are picking up on this.

That's possibly one exception to the general rule. Paintballs and bb's are essentially caseless ammo. In practical terms I think there are better ways to train though. If you're armed with a rifle and handgun or even a BUG you should probably do a transition instead of trying to clear a stoppage in the middle of a fight. If you're behind cover and the situation warrants it clearing a failure to eject isn't a big deal. Clearing a failure to extract might be a tall order. You should already be stacking the odds in your favor by using reliable firearms like Glocks, AK's and others. No machine provides 100% up time forever but some are much better than others.


Those can work exactly the same as your real gun.

My initial reaction to that is "UGH! NOOO!!!" A more well reasoned response would be that administrative gun handling has been foisted upon civilian defensive shooting by cops and soldiers who like to "be in control" of a range. Flipping the safety off and on in the middle of a fight has no place in self defense. Some people will protest. To them I will reply "Glock." If that isn't sufficient I will add "Double action revolver."

That's the same. I don't care if somebody's shooting JHP's or marshmallows at you in training, if you don't take your training seriously you aren't hurting anyone but yourself.