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Avalon | 03-05-2010 09:02 AM
open versus conceal carry I decided to go ahead and apply for my conceal permit.. :23_30_104: However I am interested in the open carry aspect of this. A local Open Carry group has formed and I was going to go to one of their meetings to hear what they had to say. Anyone here open carry and what are your experiences? How do you even conceal in the summer anyway.?

Big Country | 03-05-2010 09:57 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry I've open carried, and I've gone to "Open Carry" dinners and events. I never had an issue with it. It is kind of interesting to see other peoples reactions to it. Most people just do a double take and continue about their business. Small children are the ones most apt to bring attention to it, they will point and ask their parents, usually loudly, because they dont understand and have been taught that firearms are bad. We ate at a Golden Corral for our open carry dinner, the restaraunt knew we were coming, we called ahead and they had no problem with 35 people safely carrying. The waitress' were a little visibly nervous at first, one of the older more well spoken of the group pulled them aside and told them "listen honey, this is the safest place in all of Phoenix tonight, you have nothing to worry about." Dinner went off without a hitch, it was fun, no one else in the restaraunt even seemed to mind except for one table of "mexican gangsters" (they fit the stereotype anyways...) they kept glancing around at us, finished up and left quickly.

teedub31 | 03-05-2010 11:42 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry Here's some more stuff for you Avalon. http://www.opencarry.org/

Patriotme | 03-06-2010 01:10 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry I think concealed carry is a better option if possible. Some states have laws that do not allow concealed carry in restaurants that serve alcohol (VA is one) so if you want to carry it must be in the open. My philosophy is the whole reason that you carry is for self defense. You will usually REACT after a bad guy acts. Concealed Carry gives you the element of suprise when a criminal thinks he is in a room full of sheep. A criminal may avoid committing a crime because he spots you carrying in the open. Then again he may start off a an armed robbery by shooting you. You never know. You can't apply logic or reason to those that live by crime. Concealed Carry gives you the advantage of suprise. Open carry does nothing but make you the first target. I will admit that I do like carrying in the open when the local gun rights group has a picnic. I don't do it as a daily practice though.

mick silver | 03-06-2010 01:14 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry for years i carry open in ky . just never thought about it . it like carring under your shirt i just dont think about it . i know it there if i need it

Avalon | 03-09-2010 08:12 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry Im going to check out one of the meetings thurs.. Ill let you know how it goes..

nickelless | 03-09-2010 09:02 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotme (Post 2213217) I think concealed carry is a better option if possible. Some states have laws that do not allow concealed carry in restaurants that serve alcohol (VA is one) so if you want to carry it must be in the open. My philosophy is the whole reason that you carry is for self defense. You will usually REACT after a bad guy acts. Concealed Carry gives you the element of suprise when a criminal thinks he is in a room full of sheep. A criminal may avoid committing a crime because he spots you carrying in the open. Then again he may start off a an armed robbery by shooting you. You never know. You can't apply logic or reason to those that live by crime. Concealed Carry gives you the advantage of suprise. Open carry does nothing but make you the first target. I will admit that I do like carrying in the open when the local gun rights group has a picnic. I don't do it as a daily practice though.
+1. Unless I were a cop, I'm not sure I'd want to tip my hand that I'm carrying. I carry 24/7, but I'm just not sure I'd feel comfortable letting would-be criminals know that I've got a gun, like you said I might be the first one taken out if someone decides to rob a place.

SilverCity | 03-09-2010 10:39 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry FBI study in recent years (sorry, I lost the file) shows 16% of LE killed in the line of duty were shot with their own weapon. The same study also revealed officers had a false sense of security in the effectiveness of their sidearms and level 3A vests. I have open carried in the past and still do at appropriate locales, but would not open carry to make a political statement. It can cause an unnecessary confrontation with macho or mentally unstable types. Been there, done that.

Haltiat | 03-09-2010 12:31 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry On a societal level the deterrent effect of open carry outweighs the "surprise" advantage of concealed carry. The "surprise" is mostly BS anyway. If you need to pull your gun then you were the one who was taken by surprise. Pulling your pistol from concealment will only slow down your reaction. It should be a personal choice though because there are valid reasons for both modes of carry. If open carry were legal everywhere and at least as socially acceptable as piercings or a funny hairdo I would OC just about all the time if only because it's more convenient. It would be a lot easier for women too. Women's clothing is designed to show off their figure, not conceal a weapon.

Avalon | 03-12-2010 09:06 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry I went to the Open Carry dinner last night. it was fun. The people were very friendly and explained why they are doing this.. I had a nice time and learned alot..

45 ACP | 03-13-2010 03:35 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry In California, there is basically no opportunity for concealed carry, so open carry is the only viable option. Better open carry than no carry.

mouse | 03-13-2010 05:16 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry um, yeah, open carry with your empty gun, with the magazine separately, without ever threatening. By the time you get your open carry gun racked in California, you are probably dead. If not, someone will accuse you of threatening them with it, and you will be in a trouble spot. California is a bad place for non-criminals to reside. We are getting our CCW's in Statesota in the next couple weeks. I might need to find better ways to pack, but I will be packing. And "legalso ". The funny thing is you have to pay $200 or so to get "training" and background checks to get a permit.

Brent H | 03-13-2010 07:13 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry Fear and hostility toward open carry in Olympia January 29, 1:05 PMSeattle Gun Rights ExaminerDave Workman Wrapping up this week�s coverage of the Senate Judiciary Committee�s hearing on SB 6396 � Sen. Adam Kline�s measure to ban so-called �assault weapons� � the story would not be complete without noting an incident that occurred outside the hearing room. Prior to the hearing, as several Open Carry activists gathered in the hallway of the John A. Cherberg Senate Office Building, Washington CeaseFire�s Ralph Fascitelli approached a member of the State Patrol�s security team and, after pointing out that there were visibly armed citizens in the building, demanded of the trooper: �Do you know if they�re loaded?� Sources have confirmed to the Gun Rights Examiner that Fascitelli appeared both irritated and unnerved, and he wanted the State Patrol troopers to check every firearm at the door of the building to see if they were loaded. He was told by the WSP that troopers do not have the authority under state law to do that. We note that, in connection with this case, several individuals have commented that they would find it strange, maybe shocking, to see a man carrying a gun down the street in broad daylight. Casad�s appellate counsel conceded that she would personally react with shock, but she emphasized that an individual�s lack of comfort with firearms does not equate to reasonable alarm. We agree. It is not unlawful for a person to responsibly walk down the street with a visible firearm, even if this action would shock some people. State Court of Appeals, Division II, State v. Casad Fascitelli, in the vernacular, �ain�t from around here.� An East Coast transplant, his activities as the Northwest�s most vocal � and alarmist � gun prohibitionist makes him a sterling example of hoplophobia in action, at least certainly as it applies to his conduct the other day in Olympia. As defined by the late Col. Jeff Cooper, a renowned pistol instructor who was a personal friend of mine, hoplophobia is an �irrational aversion to weapons.� Evidently, Fascitelli was not aware that carrying firearms in public, even on the Capitol Campus, is legal. Open carry in this state has been affirmed by at least two court rulings in the past several years, State v. Spencer and State v. Gregory Casad, the latter an unpublished opinion from the State Court of Appeals, District II. Fear of guns has also been discussed at length by Sarah Thompson, MD in her essay titled Raging Against Self-Defense. Dr. Thompson differs from Col. Cooper in her analysis of fear of firearms, insisting that it is not perhaps a true phobia, but simply a strong fear. Those afflicted with this fear, she suggests, project that toward everyone. The result can be an anti-gunner whose fear of guns compels him to try banning them from everyone else�s possession. Open Carry activists Jim Beal, John Parks and Jeff Hayes told Gun Rights Examiner in separate interviews that they were only a few feet away from Fascitelli when he approached the state trooper. Their accounts have been independently verified by two other sources. We tried to contact Washington CeaseFire, but learned that Executive Director Kristen Comer�s voice mailbox is full. The incident was mentioned briefly in a larger discussion on the OpenCarry.org forum. As I noted earlier here, the Open Carry contingent of the gun rights crowd, which numbered more than 300, was particularly well behaved. Likewise, several state troopers who were on hand were both casual and professional at the same time; aware of the visibly-armed citizens, but hardly uncomfortable with their presence. In my experience, the common thread in anti-gun people is rage. Either anti-gun people harbor more rage than others, or they're less able to cope with it appropriately. Because they can't handle their own feelings of rage, they are forced to use defense mechanisms in an unhealthy manner. Because they wrongly perceive others as seeking to harm them, they advocate the disarmament of ordinary people who have no desire to harm anyone. �Dr. Sarah Thompson, MD Prior to the hearing, I had even discouraged some of the Open Carry folks from packing their guns in the open, concerned that their appearance might shift public focus from a very bad piece of legislation to an issue that is already settled by court precedent. As it turned out, the only objection was raised by Fascitelli, who apparently went away disappointed, until he was summoned to testify before the committee in support of the Kline measure. KOMO�s always-affable Bryan Johnson interviewed Parks and did not seem one bit alarmed at his holstered sidearm. One might even consider open carry to be covered as much by the First Amendment as it is the Second, and by Article 1, Section 24 of the State Constitution, along with the court precedents protecting it. That Fascitelli might want those armed citizens checked, and perhaps even removed from the premises, suggests that anti-gunners may be just as cavalier about stepping on someone�s freedom of speech and expression as they are about trying to trample on their right to keep and bear arms.

KantianPerspective | 03-14-2010 12:18 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 2211842) I decided to go ahead and apply for my conceal permit.. :23_30_104: However I am interested in the open carry aspect of this. A local Open Carry group has formed and I was going to go to one of their meetings to hear what they had to say. Anyone here open carry and what are your experiences? How do you even conceal in the summer anyway.?
Avalon, I would suggest you think long and hard about what you're willing to do and the consequences that you're willing to face. I doubt that I will every truly understand how, in a purportedly free society, the manner in which you carry a particular piece of your property can be regulated by law. If it's legal to carry a gun, what does it matter if that gun's visible or not. I carry my wallet, but there's no law punishing me if I have it clipped to my belt vs. in my hip pocket, vs in my jacket pocket. The only conclusion that I can draw, is that many guns are registered with the state, and absolute ownership is probably surrendered for a conditional equitable interest....the condition being that you're following their rules. If you're willing to accept the strings that come with the CCW, I suggest you get it. I'd be horribly saddened to find you got arrested because your jacket swung over your pistol, and for 6 seconds it was concealed

Avalon | 03-14-2010 01:39 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Kantian Perspective (Post 2225475) Avalon, I would suggest you think long and hard about what you're willing to do and the consequences that you're willing to face. I doubt that I will every truly understand how, in a purportedly free society, the manner in which you carry a particular piece of your property can be regulated by law. If it's legal to carry a gun, what does it matter if that gun's visible or not. I carry my wallet, but there's no law punishing me if I have it clipped to my belt vs. in my hip pocket, vs in my jacket pocket. The only conclusion that I can draw, is that many guns are registered with the state, and absolute ownership is probably surrendered for a conditional equitable interest....the condition being that you're following their rules. If you're willing to accept the strings that come with the CCW, I suggest you get it. I'd be horribly saddened to find you got arrested because your jacket swung over your pistol, and for 6 seconds it was concealed
I went ahead and applied for my C&C permit.. Im not happy about it.. The finger printing part really disturbed me but I did it anyway..

KantianPerspective | 03-14-2010 02:11 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 2226010) I went ahead and applied for my C&C permit.. Im not happy about it.. The finger printing part really disturbed me but I did it anyway..
Yeah, I don't like that either. I've been putting off something I should probably do, because I don't like the thought of getting printed. I still don't understand why the manner in which you carry something that's legal to have can make it a crime or not a crime.

buff01 | 03-14-2010 02:18 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry concealed carry has the added benefit of the bad guys not knowing who has the guns. but of course I believe ANY kind of carry should be completely unrestricted.

Juristic Person | 03-14-2010 02:22 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 2211842) I decided to go ahead and apply for my conceal permit.. :23_30_104: However I am interested in the open carry aspect of this. A local Open Carry group has formed and I was going to go to one of their meetings to hear what they had to say. Anyone here open carry and what are your experiences? How do you even conceal in the summer anyway.?
I open carry. No permit required. I get occeassional "looks" at the grocery store but other than that it's not that big a deal...only to some people. Others assume I'm an off duty LEO.

KantianPerspective | 03-14-2010 02:34 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Juristic Person (Post 2226107) I open carry. No permit required. I get occeassional "looks" at the grocery store but other than that it's not that big a deal...only to some people. Others assume I'm an off duty LEO.
I'm with you JP, but the problem comes in when your shirt tail or jacket swings over your pistol for a minute and some cop sees it and wants to press charges against you because he believes you need a permit if the pistol isn't completely visible at all times. Seems like a good idea to have the CCW even when open carrying, just in case.

Juristic Person | 03-14-2010 02:41 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by KantianPerspective (Post 2226127) I'm with you JP, but the problem comes in when your shirt tail or jacket swings over your pistol for a minute and some cop sees it and wants to press charges against you because he believes you need a permit if the pistol isn't completely visible at all times. Seems like a good idea to have the CCW even when open carrying, just in case.
Hasn't happened yet and I'm pretty careful about it. Also, it's not like there's a cop on every corner. I rarely see them when I'm not driving. I'm against having to ask permission from the state to exercise a right. On top of that, if the gun is concealed, it's concealed. How would even a cop know that you have it if he can't see it? Have you ever heard of a cop asking an individual to see his CCW permit? I haven't.

KantianPerspective | 03-14-2010 02:58 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Juristic Person (Post 2226140) Hasn't happened yet and I'm pretty careful about it. Also, it's not like there's a cop on every corner. I rarely see them when I'm not driving. I'm against having to ask permission from the state to exercise a right. On top of that, if the gun is concealed, it's concealed. How would even a cop know that you have it if he can't see it? Have you ever heard of a cop asking an individual to see his CCW permit? I haven't.
I have, but the situation was weird and it was from an open carry website. I'm with you. I don't think you should have to ask permission to concealed carry. The irony is that the concealed carry laws come from a period of time when most people openly carried, and it was thought unfair not to advertise that you were armed. The story was of a guy who was open carrying in a supermarket, and someone there asked a cop who happened to be in the store to go talk to the guy. The cop came over and asked for the guy's CCW. The guy says "I'm open carrying, I don't need to show you a CCW permit" The conversation goes on a few minutes and finally the cop says "Well, you're making people in here uncomfortable, could you please just cover it up while you're in here". They guy relented and no sooner did his shirt tail cover the pistol than the cop said "Now let me see your CCW." Moral of the story is that sometimes cops will try to pressure you to break the law.

Cebu_4_2 | 03-14-2010 03:14 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry CPL is required if you want to transport said firearm in any sort of vehicle. If you do not have a CPL then you must unload and store firearm in the trunk. Not much good there is it. Open carry is legal and with CPL you have more options of how and where to carry. Getting fingerprinted is just a formality besides who cares when they are doing that to thousands each week at the local county. Amazing at the people applying for CPL's mom pop and grandma all carrying, never imagined so many 'normal' looking people all packing heat.

Juristic Person | 03-14-2010 03:16 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by KantianPerspective (Post 2226165) I have, but the situation was weird and it was from an open carry website. I'm with you. I don't think you should have to ask permission to concealed carry. The irony is that the concealed carry laws come from a period of time when most people openly carried, and it was thought unfair not to advertise that you were armed. The story was of a guy who was open carrying in a supermarket, and someone there asked a cop who happened to be in the store to go talk to the guy. The cop came over and asked for the guy's CCW. The guy says "I'm open carrying, I don't need to show you a CCW permit" The conversation goes on a few minutes and finally the cop says "Well, you're making people in here uncomfortable, could you please just cover it up while you're in here". They guy relented and no sooner did his shirt tail cover the pistol than the cop said "Now let me see your CCW." Moral of the story is that sometimes cops will try to pressure you to break the law.
That is pretty shady of the cop. I have no problem being confronted by police. I know my rights. The guy should have just told the cop that it would be against the law for him to "just cover it up" without having a permit. I would have told the cop that I have the right to open carry but if the store had a policy against it, then I would be happy to leave or remove my firearm and come back in. I hear what you are saying about the benefits of carrying concealed, and I may do so if I feel it is necessary...but I will never get a permit for it. The way I see it, if the gun is concealed, it would be pretty hard to get caught. Only some freak confrontation with police could result in you getting caught. I've never had one and I'd rather take my chances that I'm cognizant enough to avoid that sort of situation.

<SLV> | 03-14-2010 04:27 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry In Colorado you may be required forfeit your concealed carry permit if you open carry (depends on sheriff/county).

KantianPerspective | 03-14-2010 08:02 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Juristic Person (Post 2226186) That is pretty shady of the cop. I have no problem being confronted by police. I know my rights. The guy should have just told the cop that it would be against the law for him to "just cover it up" without having a permit. I would have told the cop that I have the right to open carry but if the store had a policy against it, then I would be happy to leave or remove my firearm and come back in. I hear what you are saying about the benefits of carrying concealed, and I may do so if I feel it is necessary...but I will never get a permit for it. The way I see it, if the gun is concealed, it would be pretty hard to get caught. Only some freak confrontation with police could result in you getting caught. I've never had one and I'd rather take my chances that I'm cognizant enough to avoid that sort of situation.
Things like this make me hate this world. I totally agree with you, and there's no reason you should need a permit to carry your personal property around on you. You don't need a permit to wear a belt, and I imagine a committed person could choke someone to death with a belt. My biggest concern is that if they catch you with a concealed weapon without a permit, they'll try to get you on felon y charges, and from that point on you'll but up for felony charges any time you're found with a firearm for the rest of your life. :36_1_28:

Avalon | 03-15-2010 11:57 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry Looks like the open carry movement is challenging TPTB.. I have to give this guy big props. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BwQQSo9YX4&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BwQQSo9YX4&feature=player_embedded

Juristic Person | 03-18-2010 12:54 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by KantianPerspective (Post 2226519) Things like this make me hate this world. I totally agree with you, and there's no reason you should need a permit to carry your personal property around on you. You don't need a permit to wear a belt, and I imagine a committed person could choke someone to death with a belt. My biggest concern is that if they catch you with a concealed weapon without a permit, they'll try to get you on felon y charges, and from that point on you'll but up for felony charges any time you're found with a firearm for the rest of your life. :36_1_28:
Messed up, ain't it!? :36_1_28:

Haltiat | 03-19-2010 01:30 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 2228373) Looks like the open carry movement is challenging TPTB.. I have to give this guy big props. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BwQQ...layer_embedded
Interesting. The cops acted in a way that suggested they wanted to escalate the situation. Why bother following the guy as he walks away at all? Get over the power trip and just do your job!

45 ACP | 03-19-2010 02:37 AM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 2228373) Looks like the open carry movement is challenging TPTB.. I have to give this guy big props. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BwQQ...layer_embedded
Love that guy. The cops just stood there like a house on the side of the road as he left. Imagine if ten or twenty open carry citizens showed up to every police stop with video cameras. Make those coppers think twice about being dooouches.

Avalon | 03-19-2010 02:32 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Haltiat (Post 2233578) Interesting. The cops acted in a way that suggested they wanted to escalate the situation. Why bother following the guy as he walks away at all? Get over the power trip and just do your job!
Many Police have forgotten they are public servants... You want to piss off a Cop? Remind him..

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The Rooster | 03-19-2010 03:25 PM
Re: open versus conceal carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 2228373) Looks like the open carry movement is challenging TPTB.. I have to give this guy big props.
great video...love how the patrol cop kept referring to it as "his scene"...sorry but it looked like a public street to me!!! :s10::s10::s10:

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