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- - Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=353873)

sunshine05 | 02-27-2009 02:50 PM
Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing My husband took a rifle to a gun shop three months ago to have a scope put on it. He called them about one month ago to see if it was ready and they said it was still not ready. He decided to go there today and just pick it up and take it somewhere else and they were out of business. The phone number was disconnected. What can we do? It was an old military rifle that my father gave him if that means anything. I'm guessing we will not see it again. So angry about this!

Victor | 02-27-2009 02:54 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing File a theft charge with the local police department for starters.....

SilverCity | 02-27-2009 03:29 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing Ditto above. Report missing or stolen weapon to police, along with the name of the gunsmith/business (EDIT) and yes BATF.

ohioarmedneutrality | 02-27-2009 04:30 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing +1 Victor and SilverCity I can't imagine how it would take two months to mount a scope, even in these busy times. Do you know how long these guys were in business? Had they done prior work for you? Something certainly doesn't smell right.

Randolphjo | 02-27-2009 04:36 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing The police will not be able to do much for you - except to tell you that it is a Civil matter and for you to try and take the gun store owners to Small Claims Court. Since they went out of business, I doubt you would recover any money from the former store owners. What would be most effective would be to call the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms) office closest to you. The gun store had to have an FFL (Federal Firearms License) to do business and that License is issued and monitored by the BATF. Even if the gun store went out of business, they cannot just walk away with the firearms. Every firearm in their possession (sales, repairs, modifications - it doesn't matter) must be logged in and the records are audited at times by the BATF. If they were issued an FFL, they would have to surrender the license back to the BATF, along with their records of EVERY firearm in their possession and the log of EVERY firearm they have EVER had possession of. If you can provide proof of ownership of the rifle (even the receipt the gun store gave you), the BATF can tell you what happened to the rifle. If the gun store people didn't sell your husband's rifle, then it would have been surrendered to the BATF (along with the shop's FFL and all firearms in their possession when they closed). If the gun store sold your husband's rifle, their records which would have been surrendered to the BATF would show where the rifle went. The BATF cuts no slack on the records or the surrendering of the FFL. Whomever obtained the FFL from the BATF knows this and failure to follow the BATF's strict requirements could mean prison time for the former FFL holder. Regardless, the rifle should have been logged in on the store's FFL records. If the gun store sold it, you could find out to whom they sold it and start the legal process of getting it back since it would have been illegal for the gun store to have sold your property and if they did, you would then have a legal right to get your property back via the court system. If the BATF seized the rifle when the gun store closed and surrendered their FFL, you would have to try and get your property back from the BATF. In any case, the BATF is where you should start your efforts to get your husband's rifle back - assuming you don't have a way of contacting the former gun store owners (not that it would matter since they would have had to surrender EVERY firearm in their possession to the BATF - except for their personal firearms) when they went out of business. I had an FFL until I closed my gunsmithing business so I know the above to be factual. The FFL is a Federal License so it does not matter which State this happened in, the above still applies. BTW, I made sure all of my customers got their firearms back before I closed my shop and surrendered my FFL. I still had a BATF agent come and review my gun records with me (even though all was in order). I'm sorry to hear of your plight. Hopefully you will be able to get the rifle back, however, I'm afraid that you will have much to do to try and retrieve the rifle. I hope you are successful in retrieving the rifle since it is a family heirloom. I wish you much luck, but you will need to contact the BATF first to see where the rifle is and then you can take the necessary steps to try and get it back. JR

Tn...Andy | 02-27-2009 05:03 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing I won't post what I'd do, but it would involve direct action, a dark parking lot and no govt weenies.

hypervel | 02-27-2009 05:09 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing Be sure you have your receipt.

St. Germain | 02-27-2009 05:11 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing BATF is the way to go. ST

Atahualpa | 02-27-2009 05:11 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing I would make a strong effort to find a forwarding address for the former gunstore owner and I would write him a very precise letter of action (using the information Randolphjo outlined) if he doesn't immediately return your family heirloom or give you the ATF reference number and whatever documentation is needed to retrieve it. You should keep a copy and a record of all communication.

Floyd | 02-27-2009 05:22 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing Go to the local assesors office and see who the property belongs to. Then grab a phone book and go hunting.

Glass | 02-27-2009 05:32 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing I would find out who the owner was and try and locate a current address. Contact the shops landlord and ask them for details. Explain the situation. They may be owed some dough as well. Next I would create a Notice of Claim or Statement of Claim. Notice is probably better term. This should provide details regarding the property concerned and any relevant dates such as when you left it there. If they provided you with a receipt or some document so you could prove your firearm was with them include a copy of that. If you have a photo of it, include a copy of that as well. Put a value on the firearm as well. Include a statement that they have not returned it and that it's return is required or compensation to the value above. Find a notary public and get them to witness it. If you can include a statement from a witness backing up your story then that is good. The claim should require a response from the other party with X days, usually 30. Now ask the notary public to be the recording party on this matter. They will send the notice to the other party. The other party has to respond via the Notary Public. If after 30 days, no response is received the Notary Public can issue a default notice for you. This means you claim is proved. Note: There maybe another step in here that extends the time by say another 14 days or something, bit fuzzy but I suspect the other party gets another short extension to rectify the controversy. You can then take this to the county court (ask the Notary if that is the right venue... they will know) and ask them to get the Sherrif to serve the default. They can either demand the property back or compensation to the value as per your claim which they can take if need be. Sherrifs love this kind of stuff from my experience. I had a guy dragged off a plane sitting on the runway, because I told the Sherrif he was skipping the country. They pulled all stops and enjoyed every minute of it. I got my money and he (debtor) had a crappy day. It all worked out nicely.

IGrok | 02-27-2009 05:44 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioarmedneutrality (Post 1598005) +1 Victor and SilverCity I can't imagine how it would take two months to mount a scope, even in these busy times. Do you know how long these guys were in business? Had they done prior work for you? Something certainly doesn't smell right.
Boy, you are not kidding something does not smell right. Have you been in a gun shop lately? They are packed. Cannot imagine one going out of business.

chad | 02-27-2009 05:48 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing i like how GIM is 99.9% of the time "hide your guns from TPTB" they are in it to "take them away from you" etc. then a thread like this pops up, and everybody says call the BATF. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: there's no faster way to screw yourself and get on the list of "people that have guns that need to be taken away" than calling the BATF for gun help.

sunshine05 | 02-27-2009 07:03 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing Thank you all for the advice. I'm most upset because this is from my dad. It probably is only worth maybe $200, but we still want it back. My husband was able to track down the shop owner's family and apparently (or so they claim) there was a death in the family and that is why they closed the shop. They took his number. He made it clear that he wants his gun back. So we will give it a few days and see if we hear anything. We bought a new gun from this store a while back and they seemed to be doing great business. This was a surprise to us. The other gun shops in the area (there are only two) are very busy. I will update when/if we hear and then decide what to do. ETA: Yes, we do have a receipt from the gun shop

RaccoonRiverRadical | 02-27-2009 07:40 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing You'll get your gun back but you better make some noise.

Glass | 02-27-2009 08:39 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshine05 (Post 1598286) My husband was able to track down the shop owner's family and apparently (or so they claim) there was a death in the family and that is why they closed the shop.
This can happen.... I know of a few stores closed due to this. Best pizza shop in my whole area closed when the guy running it got sick very quickly.. was a nice young couple. shame really, always is though isn't it. anyway I think you will be right, just a bit of patience like you said.

igorthesmall | 02-27-2009 11:34 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing When a FFL goes out of business he doesnt have to give all the guns in his possession to the ATF, he just has to turn over his bound book.

Lucky225 | 03-03-2009 06:20 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing any updates?

sunshine05 | 03-03-2009 06:32 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing We still haven't heard from anyone...but sadly the story is true. We read in the paper a couple days ago that the store owner was killed in a freak accident when a tree fell on him. So we are giving them some time.

mick silver | 03-03-2009 06:39 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing i have never had to leave a gun , but i know the owners an they always just take an do the work then i an pay an leave , dam that would just piss me off to no end if that was my dad gun

NOOB | 03-03-2009 09:17 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing Quote:
Originally Posted by chad (Post 1598160) i like how GIM is 99.9% of the time "hide your guns from TPTB" they are in it to "take them away from you" etc. then a thread like this pops up, and everybody says call the BATF. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: there's no faster way to screw yourself and get on the list of "people that have guns that need to be taken away" than calling the BATF for gun help.
I was sitting here thinking that same thought.

GB1980 | 03-04-2009 01:46 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioarmedneutrality (Post 1598005) +1 Victor and SilverCity I can't imagine how it would take two months to mount a scope, even in these busy times. Do you know how long these guys were in business? Had they done prior work for you? Something certainly doesn't smell right.
----------------- I use a local gun shop that has been in business for about 30 years. I took a rifle to them for some work and they said with the backlog of 4 months that it would be best to wait until the backlog was reduced. They have a great loyal base of customers.

Mike C | 03-06-2009 11:30 AM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing Quote:
Originally Posted by chad (Post 1598160) i like how GIM is 99.9% of the time "hide your guns from TPTB" they are in it to "take them away from you" etc. then a thread like this pops up, and everybody says call the BATF. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: there's no faster way to screw yourself and get on the list of "people that have guns that need to be taken away" than calling the BATF for gun help.
Some of you guys need to get over this paranoid state of mind. You sound rediculous. The feds are not going to be showing up at your doorstep taking away your hunting rifles.

Camp Bassfish | 03-06-2009 11:39 AM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing That's cuz I don't have any...... :coolbeer:

adking | 03-06-2009 03:15 PM
Re: Need advice - lost rifle due to store closing ANY NEWS ON YOUR GUN?

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