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- - Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=354922)

Doge | 03-03-2009 01:34 PM
Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? What is in your home defense and CC pistol/revolver? Any personal stories to promote a certain brand and type?

S_Goldberg | 03-03-2009 01:48 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Any quality hollow point with do. I like Gold Dots, but Remington golden sabers, Winchester silver tips, Hornady XTP's, etc. all work just fine too. Gelatin testing is usually how performance is evaluated. It is obviously not anything like a human body, no tissue property variations, no rib cage simulation, etc. FBI says 12 inches of penetration in gelatin is what they require. This factors in that they may be engaging bad guys through obstructions, like a window or something. While you or I may not be likely to do that, why not have the ability to in case you need it? anyways, here are some tests and you can find others by just google searching. Lots of gun forums have more info: http://www.brassfetcher.com/

SilverCity | 03-03-2009 01:51 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by Doge (Post 1604996) What is in your home defense and CC pistol/revolver? Any personal stories to promote a certain brand and type?
Glock 30 & 36: Speer Gold Dot 200+P 45 ACP, 200 XTP handloads Glock 22 & 35: Speer Gold Dot 165 JHP and 180 JHP Glock 27: Speer Gold Dot 155 JHP Glock 31 & 33: Winchester 125 JHP 357Sig, Speer Gold Dot 125 JHP Glock 19 & 17: Speer Gold Dot 124+P JHP, Winchester Ranger T 124+P and 127+P+ Yes, I like Speer Gold Dot, as well as Winchester Ranger "T" series. SC

Heimdhal | 03-03-2009 02:02 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Whatever you get, buy a little at first and test it in your gun!! I bought a box of corbon .45 185 gr JHP's +P. Spent a good chunk of cash on it, come to find out they arent all that accurate with my particular gun(or it could just have been me, but Im not a bad shot). They were bad, but I was getting some big spreads. probably because I was shooting a 185 gr +P out of a 3 inch barrel on a compact gun. Either way, I am going to find another alternative to this ammunition to see if I can get better grouppings, because while they were good, they were "trust your life on it" good. So whatever you get, practice with it!

CyberGold | 03-03-2009 02:02 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? From the various test, reports and discussons I've read, I like to have Gold Dots, Golden Sabres, XTP's, and Hydro Shocks loaded in my various firearms. No particular order, but since this wasn't multiple choices i picked GD although I think sabres got better performancein some testings but that may have been just one caliber or two.

Caligula | 03-03-2009 02:09 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Ummmm......where's the choice for CORBON? http://www.impactguns.com/store/cor_bon_ammo.html EDIT: I'm stupid. I see it.

graspAU | 03-03-2009 02:10 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Federal HST

End of Hope | 03-03-2009 04:01 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? I use multiple brands of US-made, high-quality/high-reputation HPs. They all have their personalities, and I won't use anything that doesn't have minimum performance. Anyone try the new Hornady Critical Defense?

JJ_ | 03-03-2009 04:28 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? In .45 - Hornady 200 GR +P In .40 - Hornady 165 GR +P In 9mm - Hydra Shocks (134 GR I think)

TTAZZMAN | 03-03-2009 04:39 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Corbon But i am not opposed to any reliable hollowpoint with good velocity figures

Tome | 03-03-2009 04:48 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 1605018) Any quality hollow point with do.
I agree. These Chevy vs. Ford brand debates are just silly. :applause_

Ag_man | 03-03-2009 04:57 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1605341) Corbon But i am not opposed to any reliable hollowpoint with good velocity figures
I went with Corbon in 9mm, as it was one of the first high-performance HP ammo, but I'm sure HydraShok, or the Speer products are just as good. In .357 mag, I won't spend extra $ for a premium product, any good HP will do fine. IMO, the premium HP ammo is only worth buying for calibers .40 S&W and smaller.

skyvike | 03-03-2009 05:24 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? And now for the contrarian opinion. I can't afford to stock up on that fancy stuff and I, like one of the other posters, don't lend much credence to the ballistic gel tests, especially since the STATE OF MIND (or chemical state) of the guy you shoot has so much to do with whether he keeps coming or cries for Mommy. Yes, I understand all the basic physics but the variables are infinite. My choice? Ball. Copper jacketed ball. Simple, reliable, BALL.

C&L 1911 | 03-03-2009 05:27 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? My favorite is Winchester Ranger (aka new and more PC Black Talon). It feeds well in all of my guns and has performed well in expansion tests. It's marketed as Law Enforcement only ammo, but can be easily found and purchased by non-LEOs.

End of Hope | 03-03-2009 06:55 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1605320) In 9mm - Hydra Shocks (134 GR I think)
Probably 124 grain. The HydraShok 135 grains are Low Recoil.

BikerJon | 03-03-2009 07:00 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Hornady XTP Spooky accurate in my CZ82

hypervel | 03-03-2009 07:06 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Gold Dots have proven themselves for me. XTP's... I have a fair stock of too. Now, given that I am a reloader, those are my answers as a matter of projectile....cuz that's how it was presented. As a matter of manufacturers, I like Federal and Hornady.

elroy | 03-03-2009 10:37 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? I usually carry Corbon but I have no problem with any of the major brands, Winchester Ranger, Gold Dot, Hornady. When buying HP defense ammo I buy lighter weight stuff. 9mm - 115 grain, .40 - 165 grain and .45 - 200grain. For SHTF hoarding I buy FMJ. I will not buy lesser known brands no matter what the specs are or what their ads say. and what the heck is Extreme Shock Fang Face? Sounds like something you would buy in Chinatown.

buff01 | 03-03-2009 11:07 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? I picked Speer Gold Dot just because I got 1k rounds of it for $260 on gunbroker about a year ago :) It's painfully expensive at the gun store.

Family Man | 03-03-2009 11:22 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? SHOT PLACEMENT!!! I have an assortment of the stuff listed, in .45ACP, I practice drawing and shooting with Winchester ball ammo. So, per Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch I keep that in my mags. I have shot thousands of rounds thru it with ball, so that's whats in it. No feeding problems, etc. It's about shot placement anyway.

Family Man | 03-03-2009 11:24 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tome (Post 1605355) I agree. These Chevy vs. Ford brand debates are just silly. :applause_
+1:biggrin:

alaskamonte | 03-03-2009 11:31 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by C&L 1911 (Post 1605451) My favorite is Winchester Ranger (aka new and more PC Black Talon). It feeds well in all of my guns and has performed well in expansion tests. It's marketed as Law Enforcement only ammo, but can be easily found and purchased by non-LEOs.
I agree, all the independant testers agree, the WW Ranger T series is the 21st Century Black Talon

Tome | 03-03-2009 11:44 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by Family Man (Post 1606025) It's about shot placement anyway.
Exactly. One round of cheapo Wal-Mart Whitebox FMJ in the heart is better then ten rounds of Donald Trump Black Label Platinum Magnum Superduper Geewiz Howitzer Fullest Jacketed Hollowpoint +P in the wallpaper. :biggrin:

skyvike | 03-04-2009 12:49 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tome (Post 1606048) Exactly. One round of cheapo Wal-Mart Whitebox FMJ in the heart is better then ten rounds of Donald Trump Black Label Platinum Magnum Superduper Geewiz Howitzer Fullest Jacketed Hollowpoint +P in the wallpaper. :biggrin:
Exactly my point. :thumb.aspx:

SilverCity | 03-04-2009 01:25 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? QUOTE: One round of cheapo Wal-Mart Whitebox FMJ in the heart is better then ten rounds of Donald Trump Black Label Platinum Magnum Superduper Geewiz Howitzer Fullest Jacketed Hollowpoint +P in the wallpaper. Shot placement IS critical. Shot through the heart? A person can remain conscious and return fatal fire for up to 15 seconds after a fatal wound to the heart. You would do better to shoot for the brain. Oh, and good luck with that. Here's a simple test. Try shooting a balloon at 25 yards with a FMJ. By the way, more people are killed with the 22LR than any other cartridge. But, would you carry a 22 pistol for self-defense?

skyvike | 03-04-2009 01:48 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1606150) QUOTE: One round of cheapo Wal-Mart Whitebox FMJ in the heart is better then ten rounds of Donald Trump Black Label Platinum Magnum Superduper Geewiz Howitzer Fullest Jacketed Hollowpoint +P in the wallpaper. Shot placement IS critical. Shot through the heart? A person can remain conscious and return fatal fire for up to 15 seconds after a fatal wound to the heart. You would do better to shoot for the brain. Oh, and good luck with that. Here's a simple test. Try shooting a balloon at 25 yards with a FMJ.
You make my point. Going for a head shot is foolish unless you're close enough to club the guy. No matter what you shoot him with, there is the potential for him to keep shooting at you. I'll tell you what, though, if you shoot him in the upper torso with ANY of the above mentioned ammo, he's gonna be DISTRACTED! While shooting a ballon at 25 yards with ball ammo is a pretty easy feat in the safe environment of the range, 25 yard shootouts with sidearms are pretty rare. We all need to disabuse ourselves of the TV-inspired myth that people who get shot lay down and die within a few seconds.

SilverCity | 03-04-2009 01:52 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? My point, it is possible to hit a balloon with a 9mm FMJ and not break it. Why handicap yourself with poorer terminal ballistics of a FMJ when your life or the life of your loved ones is on the line?

MOD1 | 03-04-2009 04:25 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? I also think round placement is probably one of the most critical factors, along with reliable feeding in semi-automatic pistols. With some firearms, ball is fine; others I prefer JHP. Springfield GI - 230 grain ball Winchester whitebox. Keltec P32 - 73 grain ball Fiocchi. CZ75 / Hi Power - +P 9mm Federal JHP; practice with Winchester whitebox. Ruger SP101 - Remington 125 grain JHP - I've yet to try 125 Speer Gold Dot. Take care, Mod1

Tome | 03-04-2009 06:04 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? 1 Attachment(s) Attachment 64699 Can we agree that JHP is a better defensive bullet then FMJ and that they all expand and get the job done? Wal-Mart JHP at 100/$25 makes more sense then Donald Trump Black Label Platinum Magnum Superduper Geewiz Howitzer Fullest Jacketed Hollowpoint +P at 20/$15. :dontknow:

honu5050 | 03-04-2009 07:15 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? when the bullit hits the bone . they all work.

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farscott | 03-04-2009 07:16 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? My choice is Federal Hydra-Shok in autoloading pistols, but only because of administrative handling performance. I have to clear my sidearms several times a day, so the top round in the magazine sees a few loading cycles. One of the reasons I shoot my carry guns weekly is to use this ammo that has been cycled more than once through the gun. After a week, I have a full magazine of rounds where each round has been chambered three times. Lots of rounds, especially the 230-grain .45 ACP Golden Saber, end up measurably shorter than a round that has not been loaded. I have even measured rounds that were chambered only once and measured OAL changes on the order of 0.5mm. That means chamber pressures upon firing are increasing and accuracy is decreasing. The round that has been the most resistant to this is the Hydra-Shok, so I have settled on this round. The PMC Star-Fire does also resists OAL shrinkage fairly well. Golden Saber is just abysmal. Winchester seems to be all over the map on this; some rounds are good and some are not. In revolvers, I use whatever I can find.

Doge | 03-04-2009 08:24 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by End of Hope (Post 1605269) Anyone try the new Hornady Critical Defense?
You Tube
You Tube
Extreme Shock: You Tube
You Tube

hoarder | 03-04-2009 10:41 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by skyvike (Post 1605440) And now for the contrarian opinion. I can't afford to stock up on that fancy stuff and I, like one of the other posters, don't lend much credence to the ballistic gel tests, especially since the STATE OF MIND (or chemical state) of the guy you shoot has so much to do with whether he keeps coming or cries for Mommy. Yes, I understand all the basic physics but the variables are infinite. My choice? Ball. Copper jacketed ball. Simple, reliable, BALL.
You probably shoot .45 ACP. As caliber tapers off so does the validity of your argument. Someone who shoots a .380 or .32 would not be served well using ball FMJ for defense. Personally I do have faith in the ballistic gel and water jug tests. They show that most hollow points of a given caliber perform about the same. The reason to pay more for a premium one is accuracy, but the difference is accuracy is not always worth the price. Ball is a good choice in a handgun with feeding problems. Ball also performs as well as HP's in situations where the person being shot is wearing 10 layers of clothes. I've always been a 9Mm guy, but when I move north I may decide to switch to .45.

hypervel | 03-04-2009 11:15 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Back when I worried about comparative exterior ballistics, I found that a heavy bullet in a given caliber would exit a short barrel at a velocity closer to the stated velocity for that round. Don't recall it being all that dramatic, but closer all the same. Many folks don't realise that HP ammo is designed to perform best within a given velocity band for a given weight. 9mm 147 grain are meant to expand at slower nominal velocities than a 115 grainer. (Same with your hunting boolits, too) Once I fugured that out, my preference has been for heavier factory loads. People dwell on paper ballistics. It's a fairly worthless concern given that you don't know what your target is going to be, nor the circumstances surrounding any unfortunate event. Get LOTS of SOMETHING and practice much. I suspect bullet weight is more important to the performance of your defense package than how hollow your tip is. Happy shooting!

Doge | 03-04-2009 12:06 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 1606571) Ball is a good choice in a handgun with feeding problems. Ball also performs as well as HP's in situations where the person being shot is wearing 10 layers of clothes.
That's why I like Pow'R Ball. You get the best of both worlds. You still have a hp without the feeding problems and keep penetration power.

koyaanisqatsi | 03-05-2009 03:10 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerJon (Post 1605629) Hornady XTP Spooky accurate in my CZ82
My CZ 83 is mechanically identical to yours, and I use the Hornady for my CC about half the time ... I start with a hollow point to avoid complete body penetration in the imagined attacker ... avoid excessively endangering innocents ... deliver 100% of the bullet's energy into his tissue with a wide diameter mushroom. Below is a 9mm Makarov Hornady XTP after hitting gelatin: http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9x18/xhorn.jpg Expansion was very consistent at .61 caliber, and penetration was 9.6 inches. I then stagger in Sellier & Bellot FMJ (Czechoslavakian made) which does not expand and would likely create a small exit wound and penetrate light barriers or heavy clothing better than the prior HP round: http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9x18/xwolffmj.jpg Gelatin penetration was 21.9 inches with no expansion. http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9x18/gel9x18.htm Both carry rounds are brass cased non-metalic and 1st rate ammunition. By alternating these rounds until the threat is neutralized I can be sure of penetration and significant trauma to tissue until I can run away and call police... :rose: On the other hand for practice I fire inferior HP by Silver Bear and Wolf hardball FMJ ... flawlessy 100%. The CZ has great sights, a polygonal-rifled (no lands and groves) barrel that never wears out even with metalic com-bloc jackets, even laquer cases dont stick... This SA/DA pistol works reliably, is very fast to draw and fire, has almost no recoil jump due to low rotational angle of blow-back fixed barrel design, low muzzle flash, holds 12+1. (I think 13 is lucky for me ... not for him) :confused_ma: So I carry HP - FMJ - HP - FMJ - HP - FMJ ... and the slide stays open on the last shot, depress the button and the mag just drops away ... I trust this all steel CZ automatic pistol to CC by me. :bear_thumb: Hornady XTP 95gr Sellier & Bellot FMJ 95gr Silver Bear HP 94gr Wolf FMJ 100gr

BikerJon | 03-05-2009 09:43 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Great info on the CZ Koy. You make a great argument for staggering the rounds. I'll consider doing the same when I finally get my ccw.

koyaanisqatsi | 03-05-2009 09:15 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by BikerJon (Post 1608393) Great info on the CZ Koy. You make a great argument for staggering the rounds. I'll consider doing the same when I finally get my ccw.
My friend BikerJon, its a sort of variable compromise, my 'staggering' of FMJ's is apt to be 2:1 on road trips where auto glass and car doors are apt to get in my way, and drop to 1 FMJ:2 XTPHP for city strolls, but I do and can mix in FMJs and am carrying 50/50 now. I sort of like the Mak partly because it appears 'mild mannered' not overly agressive if I should have to defend myself for a defensive shooting at a later date. It's not the gun to threaten police with. The CZ Mak as a fighter is maybe a sleeper, with hidden surprising potential ... Its like a part of me now, we both are sort of minimalists. :ok: Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1605024) Glock 30 & 36: Speer Gold Dot 200+P 45 ACP, 200 XTP handloads Glock 22 & 35: Speer Gold Dot 165 JHP and 180 JHP Glock 27: Speer Gold Dot 155 JHP Glock 31 & 33: Winchester 125 JHP 357Sig, Speer Gold Dot 125 JHP Glock 19 & 17: Speer Gold Dot 124+P JHP, Winchester Ranger T 124+P and 127+P+ Yes, I like Speer Gold Dot, as well as Winchester Ranger "T" series. SC
I trust Speer Gold Dot the MOST but for for revolvers myself, SilverCity :ok: Admittedly it's mostly what I've gleened online, all praises. For my revolvers anything with a primer will fire, no jams except when bullets slide forward in the cases. I like them better than autos generally now carry also a .38 loaded either Speer Gold Dot, famous for snubnose reliability, or (5) Buffalo Bore, an up and coming firm I tend to trust without shooting the loads yet I NEED to shoot a few in my 15.5oz Taurus 85UL .38spl +p ... ouch! SilverCity, the crimps look real heavy like I used to place on my heavy .44mag handloads, simple and pretty bullets. Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammunition is loaded with bonded core bullets and designed for home defense and personal protection. Bonding the jacket to the core means the elimination of core-jacket separations and superior weight retention. The nickel plated cases create a smoother functioning bullet and increased durability. Technical Information: Muzzle Velocity: 860 fps Muzzle Energy: 222 ft. lbs. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=738035 Also Buffalo Bore, all praises, no detractors ... Buffalo Bore loads their ammunition up to maximum SAAMI specifications, which delivers devastating performance on a wide range of game. Please note that this ammunition is not intended for older guns. It is made for modern firearms only, as some of the ammunition could damage older and weaker firearms. This ammunition is new production, non-corrosive, in boxer primed, reloadable brass cases. Muzzle Velocity: 1000 fps Muzzle Energy: 351 ft. lbs. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=171388 http://www.gunreports.com/special_re...llet128-1.html We tried a relatively new type of ammunition in our recent test of three snubnosed revolvers and liked it very much. Buffalo Bore (www.buffalobore.com, or 208-756-8085) now offers a round that was designed to be similar to the old FBI-standard round that featured a soft-lead 158-grain bullet at very good velocity. This round was standard issue for FBI personnel some years ago, and proved its worth in many gunfights. But it generally leaded the barrels severely. Buffalo Bore�s headman Tim Sundles custom-designed this new load to be an improved version of the FBI load. Wanting to avoid the leading problem while retaining a relatively soft projectile, he had the bullets custom made for him. The 158-grain semiwadcutter is Elmer Keith�s old hollowpoint design, with Keith�s sharp shoulder. Keith�s original bullet design, when cast without the hollow cavity, weighed 173 grains. The Buffalo Bore bullet has a gas check to reduce leading to near zero. We had no leading whatsoever during our tests. The round is loaded with a powder selected to give very low flash, so the shooter is not blinded nor does a shot give away the shooter�s position in the dark, when most gunfights occur. In our testing we found that Sundles has succeeded mightily. His bullets exited the three short-barreled test guns at an average of 1000 fps. In an older S&W with a 1.875-inch barrel, we got 1030 fps. In a 4-inch Model 66, the velocity went up to 1105 fps. Muzzle flash in total darkness is extremely small. We compared velocity with some highly touted older rounds, and they came out second best. Federal�s Hydra-Shok, Law-Enforcement-Only, fodder gave a 147-grain JHP bullet all of 850 fps out of our test snubby with its 2.1-inch barrel. Winchester�s 130-grain SXT, another well-known self-defense round, got 900 fps with its light bullet. Our test Winchester Super-X .357 Magnum load made tons of noise with lots of muzzle blast, and drove its 125-grain bullet all of 1180 fps on average from our three test guns. Was that massive power from a .357? We don�t think so. It was big noise, big flash, small bullet, and small performance, by comparison. Some of us like heavy bullets at good velocity, and when a 158-grain bullet zips out of a snubnose revolver at over 1000 fps with relatively low pressure (despite the +P rating, pressure is low with this round), we figure the maker is on to something. Kudos to Tim Sundles and Buffalo Bore for what many of us consider to be the best self-defense .38 Special ammo on today�s market. At about a buck a round it ain�t cheap, but how much is your hide worth? �Ray Ordorica -------------------------------------- Buffalo Bore .38+P Item 20A: 158gr., very soft cast, semi wad cutter, (Keith) hollow cavity, with a gas check. This bullet will mushroom violently on impact and will penetrate roughly 14 inches in human flesh. Again, this bullet is gas checked and will not lead your barrel. These 38SPL+P loads are generating low-end 357 magnum, ballistics. If you have an older or more fragile 38SPL, or if you are recoil sensitive, consider using our HVY Standard Pressure 38SPL ammunition. It is safe to be fired in any 38SPL revolver and it still packs much more punch than ordinary 38SPL ammo. http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#38spl ???????? I bought (3) boxes of Buffalo Bore (60rnds) in .38 and .45 LC to experiment. I'll try and shoot a couple of Buffalo Bore alongside the Speer Gold Dot, if I'm going to have a problem I NEED to know before a life and death situation. The .38 or .45 has only 5 quick shots ... so each must score to the max. Below is more 'bullet porn' ... : Buffalo Bore 158gr vs Speer 135gr, I carry the Speer now. Also see Buffalo Bore 255gr hardcast Kieth-Style gas-check round at 1,000fps, a top load for .45 Long Colt barrier penetration and heavier defense as well.

Ag_man | 03-05-2009 09:36 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Koy, thanks for the info on Buffalo Bore .38 Spl. It would be interesting to verify it's low flash powder in a low light situation. It sounds like a perfect self-defense round for revolvers (if there is such a thing!).

TUMS | 03-06-2009 09:12 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? XTP's are good because they're cheap. Gold dot's must be made with real gold or something. Speer is mighty proud of their bullets.

sky | 03-06-2009 02:19 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? "We all need to disabuse ourselves of the TV-inspired myth that people who get shot lay down and die within a few seconds." __________________ Only total shock to the nervous system is what brings a perp down very fast and that is why I believe that the extreme shock ammo does the job best of all JHP.

Bill843 | 03-06-2009 05:12 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? I tend towards Hornady TAP at the moment, but will use anything (hollow-points) with a decent brand-name that doesn't cost a fortune and that runs through the gun in question. To that end, regarding the poll choices- .....I don't know that I'd consider Extreme Shock to be a decent brand name. The way they try to sell it is entirely too full of horse-s*** for my sensibilities, unless it's the low-price winner of the bunch. I haven't seen any at either of the gun shops I visit so I dunno what it costs. .....In the past, the Glaser frangible stuff worked good in tests I read of--but was very expensive. They might be doing cheaper stuff now, but because of the pricing I'd seen in the past I haven't looked at anything Glaser has made in years. -end-

90%RealMoney | 03-06-2009 05:12 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Federal 230 grain "Hydra-Shok" in my .45 colt house gun. Only because that's what they had at the store at the time. I don't know if they all have the nickel plated cases, but I do prefer them over regular brass finish that tends to start oxidizing after being handled.

sky | 03-06-2009 05:48 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? ".....I don't know that I'd consider Extreme Shock to be a decent brand name. The way they try to sell it is entirely too full of horse-s*** for my sensibilities, unless it's the low-price winner of the bunch. I haven't seen any at either of the gun shops I visit so I dunno what it costs. ' I believe as I said before that 'extreme shock' to the central nervous system is what brings a perp down very fast, much more reliable than a taser. The sky marshalls use the non metal penetrating rounds on airlines. They are expensive but very effective. I trust them to protect my life and my families lives with a house breakin when there isn't much time to even get more than a round into the perp. The ads that you see work with the people who need the extra edge in protecting their lives as well as the lives of those on a plane..

koyaanisqatsi | 03-06-2009 08:58 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? 2 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1611534) .....In the past, the Glaser frangible stuff worked good in tests I read of--but was very expensive. They might be doing cheaper stuff now, but because of the pricing I'd seen in the past I haven't looked at anything Glaser has made in years. -end-
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky (Post 1611584) I believe as I said before that 'extreme shock' to the central nervous system is what brings a perp down very fast, much more reliable than a taser. The sky marshalls use the non metal penetrating rounds on airlines. They are expensive but very effective. I trust them to protect my life and my families lives with a house breakin when there isn't much time to even get more than a round into the perp. The ads that you see work with the people who need the extra edge in protecting their lives as well as the lives of those on a plane..
SEE BELOW: My package of (6) .38 special +p Glazer Safety Slugs is the Glaser Silver style... #6 birdshot, saying it is better in cool climates where heavier clothing must be penetrated than the usual Glazer Blue #12 birdshot used for warm climates. (the package says this) I say, well I guess... as I dismiss the #12 dust capsules. It claims a very light 80 grain projectile, a sizzling 1,400 feet per second and resulting 348 foot/lbs kinetic energy. Claims 10" penetration in gelatin with #6 shot inside a scalloped copper jacket and behind a powerball tip... 80 grains of #6 shot, .11 caliber lead balls, is 41 pellets. I figure it carries a few less. BTW, I knew a man who guided for pheasant hunters ... One day he was shot from he said 30yds away with high brass #5 shot ... a low bird is common ... several little #5s went clean through his healthy bicep, he showed me the scars as we talked about dudes we'd known... this Glaser load claims faster speed than a shotgun in a .38 special. Ugly to repair I guess ... lots of "neural-shock" maybe? As said I am researching liability risks associated with over-penetration, bullets exiting a perp and striking an innocent and civil liability defense required, it is quite a REAL concern, overpenetration... selection of a non-over-penetrating round, especially if one is CC, is BAD JUDGEMENT that can be critical in litigation and has been before. We are responsible for what is downrange they say... Police Departments KNOW about liability for innocents as accidental victims of well meaning shooters and we maybe should too. I was once in insurance, paid to minimize risk, so excuse me. Also I MUST fire one if only to check point of impact, soon. I'm going to begin to carry one of these Glaser Silver's FIRST in my .38 Special now with (4) Speer Gold Dots behind it -- in the CITY. (seeking all rounds to remain in the perp, also a std police round) Yet I know the Glaser won't pentrate a barrier to hit a perp... say like a windshield ... but I assume my 1st shot catches him off guard, say in robbing a convenience store, or in a parking lot, with a couple of people somewhere behind him ... he turns with the weapon as if to lunge and ... POW! ... the safety slug seems right for the 1st shot only ... but I have a revolver and reliability of cycling is no concern, for auto pistols yes. You can buy these 'premium' rounds here and many places, here for $12.79 +S&H : http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=262674 On the highway, after I TEST FIRE and report to you soon maybe, I will carry (5) 158gr Buffalo Bores as mentioned, knowing they penetrate so deeply relative to the lighter Speer, and deliver max KO power along the open highway scenarios say, on road trips. I'm CHANGING MY MIND about the 9mm Makarov CZ 83 too, no more FMJ bullets alternating with the fine Hornady XTP hollow Points, the HPs are the optimum self defense round for the 9mm pistols and the FMJs just go on and on and on. BikerJon, I hope you hear me now... FMJs are not what I'll shoot in self defense. I'm changing my mind for good. And tests show that inside a house, hollowpoints often fill with sheetrock and blast right through like FMJs, they often fill with fabric and do the same, penetrating a perp through and through ... I consider all aspects and every option. I'm evolving here a bit ... :smile:

sky | 03-06-2009 09:32 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Glazers-silvers are very good also!!! Shock shock and more shock is what stops them fast, very fast.

Prometheus | 03-06-2009 10:29 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? I like quikshocks. That said, I have no problem carrying remington hollow point bulk packed 100 round value packs from the walmart. I work in a lvl 1 trauma center. While most times we leave bullets in, we pulled two from a guy a few weeks ago. I don't know what kind of HP's they were, by the looks of them probably gold dot's. One perfect expansion and one zero expansion. No guess as to why. The inside of the non expanded one was void of any "clothing materials" or th e like. It's a crap shoot IMO.

ruprick | 03-22-2009 11:14 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Need 1 box of premium self defense loads for your carry and house gun.....then thousands of ball/lead rounds for SHTF. I see no reason to stockpile the premium stuff.

Early Cuyler | 03-22-2009 11:35 PM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1640661) Need 1 box of premium self defense loads for your carry and house gun.....then thousands of ball/lead rounds for SHTF. I see no reason to stockpile the premium stuff.
It is important to run your carry ammo through your pistol to make sure there are no malfunctions and to make sure your point of aim is the point of impact. And extreme shock is extreme crap. Mall ninjas only. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm

Fermentation | 03-23-2009 01:01 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? Quote:
Originally Posted by skyvike (Post 1605440) And now for the contrarian opinion. I can't afford to stock up on that fancy stuff and I, like one of the other posters, don't lend much credence to the ballistic gel tests, especially since the STATE OF MIND (or chemical state) of the guy you shoot has so much to do with whether he keeps coming or cries for Mommy. Yes, I understand all the basic physics but the variables are infinite. My choice? Ball. Copper jacketed ball. Simple, reliable, BALL.
Bravo I SECOND THIS!! REGULAR BALL. Your money is better spent on Shot placement and shooting classes!! Master knee cap and neck shots. Armour will not save them.

Fullpower | 03-24-2009 01:50 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? By my bed is a louisville slugger. And a big flashlight. Anyone that gets past the rottweilers at the door is getting a good thrashing.

Early Cuyler | 03-24-2009 01:51 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? This poll needs Steel Hawk jacketed hollow points. You Tube
You Tube
Make sure to read the ticker too. Hilarious.

Unclad Lad | 03-27-2009 12:42 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? I'm skeptical of any ammo that has 'splosions n' tacticool ninjas on the box... I have several of those; it depends on what feeds best in each gun.

Desert Fox | 03-27-2009 09:52 AM
Re: Premium self defense ammunition: Your choice? How is http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...x.php?cPath=21

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