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Shami-Amourae | 01-25-2010 06:19 AM
California Open Carry You Tube
You Tube
Here's a little more information I dug up on this: http://www.californiaopencarry.org/C...aOpenCarry.pdf Dunno if I'd have the guts to do it in public with police swarming me, but sounds pretty badass anyways.

wildcard | 01-25-2010 07:41 AM
Re: California Open Carry Cops don't rush people that have guns. They don't even rush big burly unarmed men unless there are 8 of them. When you are carrying a weapon, that instantly makes you a citizen and they respect citizens (or at least they pretend.) :biggrin:

Tn...Andy | 01-25-2010 09:51 AM
Re: California Open Carry "For the past 6 months, David Julian has been walking around carrying an unloaded Berreta 92"..... What an idiot law........... and what an idiot reporter "This summer, open carry advocates showed up at an Obama rally with 'automatic' weapons"......I doubt it.....and I seriously doubt the reporter has a clue as to the difference.

negative1 | 01-25-2010 11:06 AM
Re: California Open Carry I love how at the end they have the lead in to another story... "Two teenagers are behind bars tonight held without bail in connection in a stabbing death of another teen". Funny how just before that the cop says "we have a difficult time understanding the point of this". :smile:

Spirit of '76 | 01-25-2010 01:16 PM
Re: California Open Carry Quote:
Originally Posted by negative1 (Post 2145401) I love how at the end they have the lead in to another story... "Two teenagers are behind bars tonight held without bail in connection in a stabbing death of another teen". Funny how just before that the cop says "we have a difficult time understanding the point of this". :smile:
My thoughts exactly. But it must be re-iterated, the California Republic, referred to (by many of you) as Commiefornia, once supported open carry policy of loaded arms--which is well within the scope of the Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence. It wasn't until corrupt legislation, illegally infringing upon the Bill of Rights, that it was mandated and limited to unloaded, holstered arms on account of a minority zealous group acting myopically. So, because politicians found the folly of adhering to the Bill of Rights posed great danger to them they decided to deny us Californians of said Right. All while the California populace was being lulled into their ignorant state with distractions such as The Honeymooners, MASH and I love Lucy episodes or whatever the hell was on TV then. An act that would have dire implications in the near future. I commented in another thread how repulsive it is to hear the now middle aged, and over, citizens of California bitch about how great things were in the past; when they are SOLELY responsible for the transgressions and servitude we now are subjected to by the State. If you are over 30 and a California native: YOU ARE TO BLAME! You are just as guilty as all of those corrupt politicians, lobbyists and other associated State minions. I'm not condoning the motives or cause of the Black Panthers but at least they had the temerity to exercise their Second Amendment Rights against tyrannical forces, as it was intended.

FeS2 | 01-25-2010 01:53 PM
Re: California Open Carry Yikes remember to not take your guns to Canada.

Ragnarok | 01-25-2010 06:24 PM
Re: California Open Carry I know a guy in Cali that open carries swords. He's been checked out on occasion by LEOs while doing so, and since he knows the law - and lets them know too - he's had no problems (your mileage may vary, dyodd). R.

Will work for wine | 01-25-2010 06:44 PM
Re: California Open Carry I can remember three of us country boys walking into a CA restaurant bar in the early 60's displaying a sign that read "please check your guns at the bar". We checked seven weapons. No one seemed surprised.

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 01-25-2010 07:11 PM
Re: California Open Carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 2145299) and what an idiot reporter "This summer, open carry advocates showed up at an Obama rally with 'automatic' weapons"......I doubt it.....and I seriously doubt the reporter has a clue as to the difference.
I caught that too, it shouldn't be plural, it should be singular should it not? Only one citizen carried rifle was in attendance as I remember it. Just trying to make it sound scarier than it is.

Mill Man | 01-25-2010 09:45 PM
Re: California Open Carry Quote:
Originally Posted by negative1 (Post 2145401) I love how at the end they have the lead in to another story... "Two teenagers are behind bars tonight held without bail in connection in a stabbing death of another teen". Funny how just before that the cop says "we have a difficult time understanding the point of this". :smile:
I caught that too. Hilarious. I thought all those guys were very well spoken though. Good for them.

Spirit of '76 | 01-26-2010 01:20 AM
Re: California Open Carry Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNocturnalEgyptian (Post 2146161) I caught that too, it shouldn't be plural, it should be singular should it not? Only one citizen carried rifle was in attendance as I remember it. Just trying to make it sound scarier than it is.
It shouldn't be at all, unless I'm mistaken that is an AR16 (the barrel looks such shorter than a M16) with a red dot and muzzle break, which was never offered in full auto, as the 'reporter' claims. Then again, I'm sure it was a choice between that or assault weapon and some how the latter has lost its potency given that even 70 year old fossils are considered assault weapons. Yeah, and if I remember that thread correctly, it was believed to be a narc; my memory is shotty about such matters, but no one could actually disprove it. Its pathetic that a Republic which obtained its independence from despots in 1846 by what were essentially impoverished and poor frontier riflemen has even contemplated imposing such legislation. Then again opposition to these matters requires a well educated and informed populace, unfortunately the State has gone to great lengths to marginalize the educated minority with an overwhelming ignorant and inept majority. The State wins again.

AurumAg | 01-26-2010 02:08 PM
Re: California Open Carry I understand and admire these individuals for taking an active stance regarding our legal right. However, doing this in the Bay Area generates a tremendous amount of face to face contact with LEOs, as well as greater scrutiny. In my world, less contact with LEOs is better, so I doubt that I will be joining this movement any time soon. In a smaller town, or more rural setting, this would not even be an issue, but the Bay Area is predominantly populated with hoplophobic sheople.

goldwish | 01-26-2010 02:51 PM
Re: California Open Carry it's a double edged sword "exploiting" loopholes but I wish these brothers in arms good luck. calguns.net - opencarry.org - good stuff.

Shami-Amourae | 01-31-2010 07:50 PM
Re: California Open Carry Moar: You Tube
You Tube

General of Darkness | 01-31-2010 08:20 PM
Re: California Open Carry This is the Milt Sparks rig I order for my Dan Wesson CBOB back in August, I think I'll be getting it this month. http://www.montystagner.com/Photogra...52_o4tZ7-L.jpg

Cebu_4_2 | 01-31-2010 08:31 PM
Re: California Open Carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 2145299) and what an idiot reporter "This summer, open carry advocates showed up at an Obama rally with 'automatic' weapons"......I doubt it.....and I seriously doubt the reporter has a clue as to the difference.
There was a black dude at Obamas rally, he was carrying openly an AR16, it was all over even MSN at the time, all over youtube if you want to see it and yes it was a very automatic weapon. A problem I have is the federal firearm law says you are able to open carry LOADED guns, how does CA law override federal law in this case? All other states can open carry loaded except perhaps IL but you can conceal carry with permit. Seriously does anyone know?

General of Darkness | 01-31-2010 08:34 PM
Re: California Open Carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebu_4_2 (Post 2156277) There was a black dude at Obamas rally, he was carrying openly an AR16, it was all over even MSN at the time, all over youtube if you want to see it and yes it was a very automatic weapon. A problem I have is the federal firearm law says you are able to open carry LOADED guns, how does CA law override federal law in this case? All other states can open carry loaded except perhaps IL but you can conceal carry with permit. Seriously does anyone know?
You can't open carry a loaded firearm, and all loaded mags have to be carried open also.

Cebu_4_2 | 01-31-2010 08:48 PM
Re: California Open Carry Quote:
Originally Posted by General of Darkness (Post 2156285) You can't open carry a loaded firearm, and all loaded mags have to be carried open also.
I dont think so! Now your making me work, new OP system with no bookmarks yet... I accept this challenge, back soon as I guess where things are stored. :biggrin:

General of Darkness | 01-31-2010 08:51 PM
Re: California Open Carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebu_4_2 (Post 2156316) I dont think so! Now your making me work, new OP system with no bookmarks yet... I accept this challenge, back soon as I guess where things are stored. :biggrin:
In California You CAN NOT OPEN CARRY A LOADED FIREARM, but you can open carry an unloaded firearm. Sorry for yelling, but I know what I'm talking about. :15_1_70v:

Cebu_4_2 | 01-31-2010 09:40 PM
Re: California Open Carry So far your correct but I will try to prove otherwise, the following paste really turns my previous post to mud... so far. Quote:
Originally Posted by General of Darkness (Post 2156324) In California You CAN NOT OPEN CARRY A LOADED FIREARM, but you can open carry an unloaded firearm. Sorry for yelling, but I know what I'm talking about. :15_1_70v:
What is Open Carry? Open Carry (OC) refers to the act of carrying a firearm in plain sight. Is Open Carry Legal in California? Yes. However, there are many restrictions, but generally as long as your firearm is not concealed, and not loaded, and you are not in a prohibited area ("school zone", post office, government building), then it is legal. Read the California Open Carry Flyer for complete details, relevant codes, and case law. Why Open Carry? There are many reasons to Open Carry, and often the discussion becomes a philosophical debate betwteen the merits of Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry. However, in California these discussions are moot, since California is not a Shall-Issue CCW state, and most residents cannot get a concealed carry permit. Therefore, in California, there are three main reasons to Open Carry: # For those choosing to carry a firearm for self-defense, it is the only legal means available. # As a form of legal civil protest of unconstitutional firearms laws and CCW issuance policies. # As a form of firearms community diplomacy, to dispel the myth that only cops and criminals carry guns, and to help reintroduce the general public and the law enforcement community to the reality that ordinary peaceful law-abiding citizens possess, use, and carry firearms. Additional universal reasons to Open Carry: # To exercise one's right. # As a visible deterrent to crime. # OC is often more comfortable than CC, and offers more ready access. # The Open Carry Argument, an in-depth answer to the "Why" question What good is an unloaded gun? Obviously, not much. However, with a little practice, one can easily load a handgun in under 2 seconds. Is it true that carrying both a gun and ammo is legally considered loaded? No. If one carries a firearm with the intent to commit a felony, then it is true. But for the typical law-abiding gun-owner, it is not true. PC 12031 and People v. Clark are all that apply. Read the California Open Carry Flyer for more details. For even more exhaustive information on the topic, read "What is Loaded". Where can I legally Open Carry? Loaded Open Carry is legal in your home, temporary residence or campsite (unless otherwise prohibited), place of business, private property, and in areas of unicorporated territiry where shooting is not prohibited, including many areas within National Forest and BLM lands. Unloaded Open Carry is legal anywhere except the following places: # schools and "school zones" # California State Parks # National Parks (Update! This will change in 2010. details) # US Post Offices # any state or local public building or at any legislative meeting required to be open to the public # the State Capitol, legislative offices, office of the Governor, Governor�s residence, etc. # �sterile areas� (areas where access is controlled by security screening) of airports # areas restricted by local city or county ordinance, often including regional parks Read the California Open Carry Flyer for complete details. I've heard concealed magazines are illegal. Is that true? While there is no code that supports this, there was an appellate case in 1974, People v. Hale, that ruled this way. It ruled that although the firearm in question was not concealed, the magazine was, and that only partial concealment is still concealment, and that the magazine was an "essential component" of the firearm. The logic is tortured beyond belief, but it currently could be used as a persuasive precedent in court. One way to avoid this pitfall is to carry your magazines in belt holsters, so that they match the 12025(f) language of "carried openly in belt holsters". Another option would be to keep an unloaded magazine in the firearm, thereby "completing" the firearm, and invalidating the asinine "essential component" logic. What about rifles and shotguns? PC 12025, which makes carrying a concealed handgun illegal, does not apply to long guns so they can be carried concealed (in a vehicle, for example) or unconcealed. However all other laws apply (including PC 12031 which makes carrying loaded illegal under most circumstances). I�ve heard that I can only Open Carry in counties with a population less than 200,000. Is that true? No. This language and this number come from PC 12050, which in addition to concealed carry permits, allows sheriffs to issue permits to carry �loaded and exposed�, but only in counties with a population less than 200,000. These permits are even more elusive than the rare concealed carry permits, and have no bearing on the otherwise legal carry of firearms. Is it legal to open carry while driving a car, or while riding a motorcycle? Yes. There is no legal difference between being in a vehicle (or on a motorcycle) or not, with regard to open carry. The locked case or vehicle trunk requirements refer to concealed carry only. However, if you will be passing through any school zones, then you also must place handguns in a locked case. How can I prepare to OC, what can I expect, and what are the risks? Open Carry in California is still quite uncommon. This means that people who notice that you are carrying (and most won�t even notice) may be surprised, unsettled, or interested and inquisitive. Be polite, friendly, and if you like, share with them that, yes, it is legal to carry this way in California. You may also have encounters with law enforcement officers. You must be prepared for this. Know all the laws. Carry the flyers and memos with you. Many Open Carriers carry personal voice recorders to record their police encounters. You may be detained. You legally must allow police officers to inspect your firearm to ensure that it is unloaded (where applicable per 12031). You may even be arrested. This shouldn�t happen if you follow all the laws, but from many of the experiences shared on the OpenCarry.org forums, it appears that many police officers do not know or do not understand the law. Remain patient, and if you can, share with them what you know. If however you are placed under arrest, immediately stop talking. If you are unwilling to accept this risk of false arrest, or are unable to bear the significant financial burden for your legal defense, then don't Open Carry in California. You also must be sure not to OC where firearms are not allowed, like "school zones" or government buildings. Carry a 12026.1 compliant locking case in your vehicle to store your handgun in when necessary. Personal accounts of police encounters: bad_ace, Army's LAPD video, OPS MARINE, OPS MARINE, wolfeinstein, bad_ace, bad_ace, dirtykoala, bad_ace, pullnshoot25, Larry, dirtykoala, arkangel88, demnogis, pullnshoot25, pullnshoot25, bad_ace, flintlock tom, pullnshoot25 (result), The Nomadd, Dessun, pullnshoot25, pullnshoot25, demnogis, oilfieldtrash11, Mykal, Legend_AB, demnogis, pullnshoot25, demnogis, Roy, D53, Theseus, Theseus, pullnshoot25, CA_Libertarian, Prophet, 4thSeal, Hellrazor, ConditionThree LEO encounters that resulted in arrest, currently unresolved: Mike, 74 year old man, Cases which resulted in false arrest, with no charges filed: giaking70, VigilanceOfFreedom, mpmsc, Lin, bobbarker Important: Despite being on private property (which is exempted from 626.9) and not having knowledge of school property 519 feet away (knowledge is required for guilt under 626.9), Theseus has been convicted of 626.9 (possessing a firearm within 1000 feet of a school). For details see this thread. This demonstrates how hostile the California courts are to firearms activists. Be very careful to stay away from school zones until this bad law is struck down. Theseus plans to appeal. You can help by donating to his defense fund. The law enforcement community appear to be learning. See the following memos: # Sacramento Police Department Memo on Open Carry # Sacramento Regional Terrorism Threat Assessment Center Open Carry Bulletin # California Peace Officers Association Open Carry Memo # Los Angeles District Attorney Open Carry Memo # Los Angeles Sheriff's Department Open Carry Memo # San Diego Police Department Open Carry Bulletin # Orange County Sheriff's Department Open Carry Bulletin # Oceanside Police Department Open Carry Training Memo # San Diego District Attorney Open Carry Training Bulletin # Sunnyvale Department of Public Safety OC Memo - Except for the misinterpretation of 537e and 12090, this memo has the best information and tone of all the LEA memos to date. Know the legal risks. Read the current CalGuns Foundation UOC Cautionary Statement and request to stand down until 2A incorporation is re-won. Many in the California Open Carry community including all of it's original members concur, and ask that we do not open carry at least until after incorporation, which should be after June 2010. Some of the reasons for this are detailed here. My question isn't answered in this FAQ or in any of the documents on this site. Go to OpenCarry.org's California Forum and ask. To contact CaliforniaOpenCarry.org's site administrator email admin at california open carry dot org. (CaliforniaOpenCarry.org is not affiliated with OpenCarry.org.) Legal Disclaimer The information on this site is not legal advice. This site contains information about the law. The purpose of presenting this information is to help the law abiding gun owner exercise his or her rights, while still remaining within the law. The authors have gone to great lengths to assure that the information is accurate and complete. However, legal information is not same as legal advice, which is the application of law to an individual's specific circumstances. Consult an attorney for legal advice.

Cebu_4_2 | 01-31-2010 09:47 PM
Re: California Open Carry California Open Carry and Transport This document is an abridged list of all relevant California codes for citizens who do not have a CCW permit but otherwise legally carry or transport firearms. The author is not an attorney, and this is not legal advice. Most of the information here is copied directly from the Penal Code. 12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following: (1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. (2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. (f) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section. 12026. (a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state … who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. (b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state … to purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed, a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident. (c) Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the application of Section 12031. As long as one complies with 12025(f), and 12031, and avoids the other pitfalls (detailed on page 2), then he/she is legally open carrying, and the following sections 12026.1 and 12026.2 are unnecessary. However, there are many instances where open carry is not practical or desired, or allowed due to other obscure laws (see page 2), so an understanding of 12026.1 and 12026.2 is important. 12026.1 and 12026.2 are almost always misinterpreted, and in many ways. The most common misinterpretation is that these sections are restrictions. They are not. They are exemptions to 12025. You cannot be charged with 12026.x, only 12025. When you transport your firearms concealed (openly is not illegal) you use one of the 12026.x exemptions. The second common mistake is confusing or combining 12026.1 and 12026.2. 12026.1 simply states that 12025 does not apply when transporting a handgun in a motor vehicle’s trunk, or in a locked container in or to/from a motor vehicle. There are no location or deviation restrictions in 12026.1. 12026.2 is another list of exemptions to 12025, all but one (motion picture) of which are transporting exemptions. These exemptions are in addition to, and separate from 12026.1. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 is not specific to motor vehicles. It can be applied to all other forms of transportation, e.g., walking, bicycling, public transportation. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 does limit the transport exemptions from any unnecessary deviations. Another common misconception is the belief that ammunition cannot be stored in the same case as the firearm, or that it must be locked up separately somehow. This is not true. There is no code to support this myth. See the second page of this flyer for more information about loaded firearms. 12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state … from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm: (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment. (2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container. (b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter. (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. 12026.2. (a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following: … (1) through (20) omitted from this document. (b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances. (c) This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter. (d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock, combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a motor vehicle. Note: PC 12025 and 12026 apply only to concealed handguns. There are no restrictions on carrying rifles or shotguns in these sections. They can be transported unlocked, openly or concealed. However 12031 and other restrictions do apply.

Cebu_4_2 | 01-31-2010 09:51 PM
Re: California Open Carry Seems CA has the most stringent laws around, I don't know if they relate to state or fed but I am not moving there so I give up... As I see it you won and I lost... we will have better challenges ahead G.O.D. Thanks for the wake up though.

Cebu_4_2 | 01-31-2010 10:02 PM
Re: California Open Carry You win, I have lots to finish up man.

General of Darkness | 01-31-2010 10:08 PM
Re: California Open Carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebu_4_2 (Post 2156442) You win, I have lots to finish up man.
Well I wish I was wrong my friend, I think the Commiefornia gun laws are a loss to the citizens of this once great state. :bear_cry:

Cebu_4_2 | 01-31-2010 10:59 PM
Re: California Open Carry going to bookmark this, i think 1st amendment trumps but real sorry I don't have time right now. And CA is an issue of itself. I will try to get to this.

Cebu_4_2 | 02-01-2010 10:34 PM
Re: California Open Carry Quote:
Originally Posted by General of Darkness (Post 2156453) Well I wish I was wrong my friend, I think the Commiefornia gun laws are a loss to the citizens of this once great state. :bear_cry:
Yep your correct (not that I doubted it after poking around). IL, WI, and CA are the worst states regarding guns. When I was looking around I found one place that said carrying loaded was illegal in most states which worried me for a bit, but he was wrong. :yippee:

Spirit of '76 | 02-01-2010 10:43 PM
Re: California Open Carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Cebu_4_2 (Post 2158099) Yep your correct (not that I doubted it after poking around). IL, WI, and CA are the worst states regarding guns. When I was looking around I found one place that said carrying loaded was illegal in most states which worried me for a bit, but he was wrong. :yippee:
Include New Jersey and New York to that list. If you're not connected those five by far the 'worst' to live in. Also, the statement you made about that AR is incorrect, what AR was EVER offered in full auto? I'll retract if I'm incorrect, I just sincerely cannot recall there ever being one. And did you mean that the Second Amendment 'trumps' these nefarious laws (State decree), if so it is quite obvious you are not even slightly informed of California protocol when obtaining a firearm, as it is all grossly unconstitutional. As I said it is lamentable and an indignation when you consider our Republic's History--by which I mean California not the the US. I place the blame not just on corrupt politicians, but on the cowardice of our population over 35, they, too are just as culpable!

Cebu_4_2 | 02-01-2010 10:53 PM
Re: California Open Carry Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit of '76 (Post 2158117) Include New Jersey and New York to that list. If you're not connected those five by far the 'worst' to live in. Also, the statement you made about that AR is incorrect, what AR was EVER offered in full auto? I'll retract if I'm incorrect, I just sincerly cannot recall there ever being one. And did you mean that the Second Amendment 'trumps' these nefarious laws (State decree), if so it is quite obvious you are not even slightly informed of California protocol when obtaining a firearm as it is all grossly unconstitutional.
Yeah well I clearly wasn't thinking, I meant semi auto. What's worse is that I know MI state law over rides federal law in regards to open carry. :10_1_19:

Spirit of '76 | 02-01-2010 11:11 PM
Re: California Open Carry So should the Bill of Rights, and the Deceleration of Independence as it reads the following: But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. And yet... here we are.

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