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Big Country | 04-13-2009 08:02 PM
Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue I have two mosin-nagants and have had them both out playing with them at the "range". I'm having an issue with one of the guns. These are both M91/30s. One of the rifles, after firing, I can no longer work the bolt. By this I mean I cannot get the bolt to pull up and extract the cartridge and reset the firing pin. I have tried slamming my fist into it and everything this else but don't have the strength to work the action. I finally had to take a rubber mallet to the bolt handle and it finally release and reset the firing pin but left the fired cartridge stuck in the chamber (and I mean STUCK!) To get the cartridge out I first tried a dowel rod down the barrel with about 1 inch sticking out the front. I tapped it with a mallet...nothing, I hit it harder with a mallet...splintered the dowel. I then cut down a piece of solid brass rod and covered the end with demin (so I didn't destroy my mallet) and had to BEAT and BEAT and BEAT on it until finally the shell came out. The first time this happened on the first shot. I retired the rifle for the day and went home and cleaned it very well. The second trip to the range it happend on the second shot. Are the cartridges expanding too much and causing themselves to get stuck? My other Mosin has no problem with the same ammo. What should I try to fix this problem? Where should I be looking? Big Country

Golddust | 04-13-2009 08:05 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Country (Post 1676107) I have two mosin-nagants and have had them both out playing with them at the "range". I'm having an issue with one of the guns. These are both M91/30s. One of the rifles, after firing, I can no longer work the bolt. By this I mean I cannot get the bolt to pull up and extract the cartridge and reset the firing pin. I have tried slamming my fist into it and everything this else but don't have the strength to work the action. I finally had to take a rubber mallet to the bolt handle and it finally release and reset the firing pin but left the fired cartridge stuck in the chamber (and I mean STUCK!) To get the cartridge out I first tried a dowel rod down the barrel with about 1 inch sticking out the front. I tapped it with a mallet...nothing, I hit it harder with a mallet...splintered the dowel. I then cut down a piece of solid brass rod and covered the end with demin (so I didn't destroy my mallet) and had to BEAT and BEAT and BEAT on it until finally the shell came out. The first time this happened on the first shot. I retired the rifle for the day and went home and cleaned it very well. The second trip to the range it happend on the second shot. Are the cartridges expanding too much and causing themselves to get stuck? My other Mosin has no problem with the same ammo. What should I try to fix this problem? Where should I be looking? Big Country
Be careful , you may be firing hot ammo and what it sounds like is over pressure....not a good thing.. you may do good to take it to a gun smith and have it checked out..

UncaScrooge | 04-13-2009 08:07 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Those guns are POS's PM me, and I'll take it off your hands, if you're willing to be real about the $$$

aybesee123 | 04-13-2009 08:07 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Its probably the cosmoline, I think you're supposed to run some windex or something down the barrel after each use.

aybesee123 | 04-13-2009 08:09 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Quote:
Originally Posted by UncaScrooge (Post 1676116) Those guns are POS'S PM, and I'll take it off your hands, if you're willing to be real about the $$$
Your crazy, those rifles are bad ass with a long history of action. If you want to be real about the money those rifles will double in price within 36 months.

UncaScrooge | 04-13-2009 08:12 PM
Re: DUMP YORU MOSIN NAGANTS!!! By now, you've realized you got screwed! Call me stupid... I'll "cover" your action. I'll buy it off you... cause I'm a softie. WANNA SELL? CALL ME.

aybesee123 | 04-13-2009 08:16 PM
Re: DUMP YORU MOSIN NAGANTS!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by UncaScrooge (Post 1676129) Call me stupid...
Deal! :565:

UncaScrooge | 04-13-2009 08:34 PM
Re: DUMP YORU MOSIN NAGANTS!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by aybesee123 (Post 1676131) Deal! :565:
Cool! let's tallk, PM me!

UncaScrooge | 04-13-2009 08:40 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue :452::452::452::452::4_8_4v: Quote:
Originally Posted by aybesee123 (Post 1676120) Your crazy, those rifles are bad ass with a long history of action. If you want to be real about the money those rifles will double in price within 36 months.
HEY! I don't like to hear that kind of talk!

UncaScrooge | 04-13-2009 08:50 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Quote:
Originally Posted by aybesee123 (Post 1676120) Your crazy, those rifles are bad ass with a long history of action. If you want to be real about the money those rifles will double in price within 36 months.
Hey, Buddy! Come on,, aybesee... you're ruining things for me~ GIMME a BREAK :15_1_70v:

CrufflerJJ | 04-13-2009 08:50 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Country (Post 1676107) Are the cartridges expanding too much and causing themselves to get stuck? My other Mosin has no problem with the same ammo. What should I try to fix this problem? Where should I be looking? Big Country
Sounds pretty nasty. I would recommend you take it to a gunsmith who has the proper headspace gauge for 7.62x54R. If you've used these before, you can buy a gauge & check headspace yourself. Sometimes, excessive headspace can cause this problem. Other possibilities include: - a VERY rough, pitted chamber - causing the case to expand & stick. I have a SVT40 that used to have this problem - case lacquer melted to the chamber walls. To remove this, use carb cleaner or another very aggressive solvent. Try swabbing the chamber with a solvent soaked patch, or just cheat & chuck a section of cleaning rod into a cordless drill. Screw a tight fitting brass bristle brush into the end of the cleaning rod, hose it with carb cleaner, insert into the chamber & rotate the brush with great vigor. If you do have lacquer melted to the chamber wall, that tends to stick to the lacquer of any new case you insert & fire. - some sort of weird "ringed" chamber (allowing the case to expand into the ring, making it a bitxh to extract) - the rifle just hates the ammo you're using. If you are shooting lacquered steel case ammo in it (Czech light ball silver tip is known for being a pain to extract from some Mosin Nagant rifles), try using brass case or copper washed steel case ammo. First step is to verify that the headspace isn't dangerously excessive.

aybesee123 | 04-13-2009 08:55 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1676169) Sounds pretty nasty. I would recommend you take it to a gunsmith who has the proper headspace gauge for 7.62x54R. If you've used these before, you can buy a gauge & check headspace yourself. Sometimes, excessive headspace can cause this problem. Other possibilities include: - a VERY rough, pitted chamber - causing the case to expand & stick. I have a SVT40 that used to have this problem - case lacquer melted to the chamber walls. To remove this, use carb cleaner or another very aggressive solvent. Try swabbing the chamber with a solvent soaked patch, or just cheat & chuck a section of cleaning rod into a cordless drill. Screw a tight fitting brass bristle brush into the end of the cleaning rod, hose it with carb cleaner, insert into the chamber & rotate the brush with great vigor. If you do have lacquer melted to the chamber wall, that tends to stick to the lacquer of any new case you insert & fire. - some sort of weird "ringed" chamber (allowing the case to expand into the ring, making it a bitxh to extract) - the rifle just hates the ammo you're using. If you are shooting lacquered steel case ammo in it (Czech light ball silver tip is known for being a pain to extract from some Mosin Nagant rifles), try using brass case or copper washed steel case ammo. First step is to verify that the headspace isn't dangerously excessive.
Yea, I have a m44 and you need to get a go-no go head space gauge. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=11880

gypsybiker45 | 04-13-2009 09:09 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Tell you what, this happened to me a couple years back, SOVIET MACHINE GUN AMMO!, F****g junk, i switched to some of the green lacquered ammo from wolf, fine, sellier and belliot, fine, norma ,fine, silver bear,fine. the USSR ammo was head stamped 1957-1962 in paper wrapping tied with a string, Garbage. SVT 40 pops them off fine though. BTW the gun was a hex reciever from czarist times (1912) a buddy has a model made in the 30sits a looser gun, poorer machining, but eats anything.

Tallships | 04-13-2009 09:49 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue The hex recievers are know to be tighter, and this is normally better, but it can cause sticking.

UncaScrooge | 04-13-2009 10:56 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue :452: Quote:
Originally Posted by aybesee123 (Post 1676179) Yea, I have a m44 and you need to get a go-no go head space gauge. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=11880
A go.. no-go gauge??? NO!!~ you don't want to do that! Just sell me your mosins for $50 a pop, shipping included, and count yourself lucky! Would I steer you wrong??? :452: :favorites8:

Big Country | 04-13-2009 11:51 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Alright, I was wondering if it was an excessively dirty chamber, though these were claimed to be "brand new" made, boxed, and stored. I cleaned the cosmoline pretty well I thought but I'll check it again. I've run hoppes soaked patches through the chamber but I'll try it on a drill. I'll run the brass brush through the chamber and see if that can clean any dirt that was in there. I got a suggestion (not from this thread) to try to take some sort of metal polish on a patch on the end of a brass brush through the chamber and try and polish it smooth to see if that helps. I'll call my local firearms guys and see if he know much about them for the head spacing check, though I think "black guns" are his thing. If he doesn't I'll pick up one of those head spacing checkers... I've been firing Bulgarian ammo through the guns, and when I looked it up through the rim stamps, I believe it was minted in 1980. They are copper washed steel cases from the look of them.

AZLiberty | 04-14-2009 02:35 AM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Google "Mosin Nagant Sticky Bolt Syndrome" Basically, the M-N rifles have set in cosmo for so long that some of it has impregnated the chamber walls, when you fire the rifle, the cosmoline heats and flows locking the cartridge to the chamber. Even if it looks clean, it probably isn't. Buy a bronze oversize bore brush, say 20 gauge, chuck it and a bit of cleaning rod into a hand drill. Get it sopping wet with a good cleaner like Hoppe's #9 and go to town on the chamber. Don't worry about damaging anything, bronze is much softer than barrel steel. Every once in a while put a patch through the chamber.. You will be amazed at how much goo comes out of the chamber walls.

CrufflerJJ | 04-14-2009 08:06 AM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Country (Post 1676398) I'll call my local firearms guys and see if he know much about them for the head spacing check, though I think "black guns" are his thing. If he doesn't I'll pick up one of those head spacing checkers... I've been firing Bulgarian ammo through the guns, and when I looked it up through the rim stamps, I believe it was minted in 1980. They are copper washed steel cases from the look of them.
Copper washed should extract pretty easily. As others have posted, it could very well be cosmoline stuck to the chamber walls over the decades. It most likely is NOT a headspace issue. Out of all my Mosin Nagant rifles, only one (an old Russian MN91) has excessive headspace. All the others were just fine. I'd be inclined to check it on your rifle, just in case (faces are a lot more expensive to replace than MN rifles).

Big Country | 04-14-2009 02:03 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Thanks everyone. I'll chuck a 20 gauge brush and get it scoured out really well and see if that solves the problem.

SLV>GLD | 04-14-2009 02:33 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Heat the chamber up with a hair dryer or use boiling water. Run a patch and check for cosmo. I'd do that before I started scrubbing like a madman. Even if scrubbing is required it will go much faster if the barrel is heated. Head-spacing may be the issue but I suggest making friends with some gunsmiths and getting the spacing checked for cheap/free instead of getting a checker. they are not cheap and are caliber specific. How often do you think you'll be head-spacing 7.62X54r chambers?

stranger | 04-14-2009 02:40 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Good advice on the heat from SLV. In addition, bore blaster for muzzle-loaders does a good job of eating hardened cosmolene.

AOW | 04-14-2009 02:41 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue I've got 2 Nagants I've never fired or even cleaned yet (though they have been cleaned of cosmo and look ready to fire). Should I poor boiling water through the chamber and barrel as a preventative measure, then clean as normal before firing? Thanks!

CrufflerJJ | 04-14-2009 02:59 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1677265) Head-spacing may be the issue but I suggest making friends with some gunsmiths and getting the spacing checked for cheap/free instead of getting a checker. they are not cheap and are caliber specific. How often do you think you'll be head-spacing 7.62X54r chambers?
It is probably NOT a headspace issue, but just in case, given the severity of case sticking, I'd recommend ruling that out as a cause of the problems. Headspace gages are not all that expensive. You can get a 7.62x54R Field gage for ~$18 from: https://www.lockstock.com/prodinfo.asp?number=FRBG762RF It's probably not something that you'd use day in & day out, but if you own a number of 7.62x54R weapons, it's not a total waste of money.

SLV>GLD | 04-14-2009 03:11 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Quote:
Originally Posted by AOW (Post 1677277) I've got 2 Nagants I've never fired or even cleaned yet (though they have been cleaned of cosmo and look ready to fire). Should I poor boiling water through the chamber and barrel as a preventative measure, then clean as normal before firing? Thanks!
I have learned the hard way that you are ALWAYS better off to clean every firearm purchase before firing. No matter how clean it looks you WILL be surprised at the degree of crud you WILL find and many times you will find something that you should be aware of such as a worn recoil spring or chipped extractor. By doing this you will also know that any malfunction in the field is not the result of improper cleaning, you won't be damaging the weapon by running un-greased slides (e.g.) and generally, the weapon will operate more smoothly. As for using boiling water, well that is entirely up to you but it is a good method for melting cosmoline. If your barrel fits in your oven you can cook it on low (~200F) until it is heated through, just be sure to provide some manner of catching drips or you will be cleaning the oven as well.

eat_beef | 04-14-2009 11:00 PM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Bwahahaha!! I'd LOVE to see the oven that will hold a M91/30. What's the bbl on that thing, 164 feet long!!:rofl:

SLV>GLD | 04-15-2009 07:14 AM
Re: Mosin Nagant bolt/extractor issue Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1678026) Bwahahaha!! I'd LOVE to see the oven that will hold a M91/30. What's the bbl on that thing, 164 feet long!!:rofl:
No kidding, right? I threw that out there because it is a sound method on its face and many a person at 7.62X54r.net report it works well so somebody has ovens that size. I have a 91/59 and neither the barrel nor the stock would fit in my oven although I do have a rather small oven.

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