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- - OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=436520)

jmareci | 01-01-2010 02:35 PM
OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Can this be true? Subject: Obama Takes First Step in Banning All Firearms On Wednesday Obama Took the First Major Step in a Plan to Ban All Firearms in the United States On Wednesday the Obama administration took its first major step in a plan to ban all firearms in the United States. The Obama administration intends to force gun control and a complete ban on all weapons for US citizens through the signing of international treaties with foreign nations. By signing international treaties on gun control, the Obama administration can use the US State Department to bypass the normal legislative process in Congress. Once the US Government signs these international treaties, all US citizens will be subject to those gun laws created by foreign governments. These are laws that have been developed and promoted by organizations such as the United Nations and individuals such as George Soros and Michael Bloomberg. The laws are designed and intended to lead to the complete ban and confiscation of all firearms. The Obama administration is attempting to use tactics and methods of gun control that will inflict major damage to our 2nd Amendment before US citizens even understand what has happened. Obama can appear before the public and tell them that he does not intend to pursue any legislation (in the United States) that will lead to new gun control laws, while cloaked in secrecy, his Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton is committing the US to international treaties and foreign gun control laws. Does that mean Obama is telling the truth? What it means is that there will be no publicized gun control debates in the media or votes in Congress. We will wake up one morning and find that the United States has signed a treaty that prohibits firearm and ammunition manufacturers from selling to the public. We will wake up another morning and find that the US has signed a treaty that prohibits any transfer of firearm ownership. And then, we will wake up yet another morning and find that the US has signed a treaty that requires US citizens to deliver any firearm they own to the local government collection and destruction center or face imprisonment. This is not a joke nor a false warning. As sure as government health care will be forced on us by the Obama administration through whatever means necessary, so will gun control. Read the Article U.S. reverses stance on treaty to regulate arms trade WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States reversed policy on Wednesday and said it would back launching talks on a treaty to regulate arms sales as long as the talks operated by consensus, a stance critics said gave every nation a veto. The decision, announced in a statement released by the U.S. State Department, overturns the position of former President George W. Bush's administration, which had opposed such a treaty on the grounds that national controls were better. The Full Article http://www.reuters.com/article/polit...59E0Q920091015

Haltiat | 01-01-2010 03:39 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN There is no legal way around the Second Amendment.

<SLV> | 01-01-2010 03:41 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN If the legislators work for us, then the laws they make are our servants not our masters. Americans need to wake up and realize this. We must stop acting like we are servants to "our" leaders/laws.

Bx3 | 01-01-2010 04:09 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Bring it. It is well past time that this was settled.:fight: Bx3

TechGuy | 01-01-2010 04:13 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN I read this a while ago. If I remember correctly, the UN treaty deals with small arms trade between countries. Buy your CZ's, glocks, etc now.

Publico, Pro Se | 01-01-2010 04:15 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land any treaty notwithstanding to the contrary.

State of Jefferson | 01-01-2010 04:55 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosepublico (Post 2104011) The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land any treaty notwithstanding to the contrary.
Most specifically, the Second Amendment is the Supreme Law of the Land. And further, the Second Amendment amended any relevant part of the Constitution, so the Obamanation cannot use the "well, a treaty passed by the Senate becomes the 'Supreme Law of the Land'." Μολὼν λαβέ you SOBs! I mean that with dead seriousness. You ban, we shoot! The Second Amendment is not subject to infringement.

Patriotme | 01-01-2010 05:47 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN This kind of thread crops up now and again or it makes the rounds on e-mail. Obama can sign whatever treaty he wants. It doesn't matter because our treaties have to be ratified by 2/3rds of the US Senate to become law. The Dems are sick of losing seats on gun control issues. Yes, there are some Senators from solidly blue states that would vote for more gun control or even total gun bans. Most however would not. They'll eventually try to pass another Assault Weapon (hate that term) Ban or a hi cap mag ban but you will not see a move to totally ban firearms unless it comes with martial law and a suspension of the Constitution. Obama doesn't want to lose in 2012. He probably will anyway but pissing off gun owners would guarentee a loss. He won by 6 pts last year. Just 6 pts and he had a very lame foe, a horrible economy blamed on the other party, unpopular wars and media coverage that couldn't be anymore positive unless his mother wrote the press releases. He won last year but it wasn't a rout. He should have had a double digit victory from the fawning media coverage alone. 2012 will be a hard fight if the Right finds a candidate that actually knows what he stands for and can form a coherent sentence. Total gun bans aren't going to be proposed by Obama and I doubt we'll see any real anti gun stuff until after 2012. So what can he do? He can raise taxes on guns and ammo. That doesn't violate the Constitution. He can require special insurance for gun owners, use OSHA and the EPA to shut down ranges and make ammo expensive enough to drive many gun buyers out of shooting. There's a host of things Obama and the Democratic leadership (I hate using the term "Leadership" with that crew) can do to make gun ownership more difficult and expensive. Signing a treaty isn't the problem. All of the sneaky stuff they do behind the scenes is the problem. What is going to be buried in all of these 2000 page Bills that are voted on in the dead of night?

phideaux | 01-01-2010 06:02 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosepublico (Post 2104011) The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land any treaty notwithstanding to the contrary.
The problem is that politicians (and the Supreme Court) have been throwing the Constitution under the bus for 75+ years, especially on 2nd Amendment issues.

illuminate10 | 01-01-2010 06:27 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN The way around the 2nd amendment, is to not confront it. THE END.

Twisted Avatar | 01-01-2010 06:51 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN The illegal we do immediately..................The unconstitutional takes a little longer. Henry Kissinger T

mk3hunter | 01-05-2010 01:07 AM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Quote:
There is no legal way around the Second Amendment.
it really does get this simple.......... God Bless

jtmo3 | 01-05-2010 10:41 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Quote:
Originally Posted by mk3hunter (Post 2109032) it really does get this simple.......... God Bless
This really is not true. A treaty overrides the constitution. That's why we have to be very careful about what treaties we sign on to. If a treaty were signed to ban handguns, handguns would legally be banned in the us. It has to be a treaty though, not just a law or international document.

Saul Mine | 01-06-2010 07:24 AM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Mox nix. If you think you have a right to own guns you are going to have to enforce it. Everything else is just grandstanding.

teacher | 01-06-2010 07:58 AM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Quote:
Originally Posted by jtmo3 (Post 2110644) A treaty overrides the constitution.
I don't belive this. Can you prove this statement? In our federalst papers and other historic material, you can read the thoughts of our constitution's framers. Madison said �Here, the supremacy of a treaty is contrasted with the supremacy of the laws of the states. It cannot be otherwise supreme.� In other words, a treaty cannot be supreme. Thomas Jefferson: �I say the same as to the opinion of those who consider the grant of treaty-making to be boundless. If it is, then we have no Constitution.� Sources: The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, Farrand, Vol. I, p. 164. Debates on the Federal Constitution, Jonathan Elliot, ed., second edition, Philadelphia, J.B. Lippincott Company, 1907, Vol. III, p. 514.

mk3hunter | 01-06-2010 09:57 AM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Quote:
This really is not true. A treaty overrides the constitution. That's why we have to be very careful about what treaties we sign on to. If a treaty were signed to ban handguns, handguns would legally be banned in the us. It has to be a treaty though, not just a law or international document.
"WE" didnt sign anything. “All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.” Marbury vs. Madison 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803) “To summarize, we conclude that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms. That right existed prior to the formation of the new government under the Constitution and was premised on the private use of arms for activities such as hunting and self-defense, the latter being understood as resistance to either private lawlessness or the depredations of a tyrannical government (or a threat from abroad). DC Circuit. No foriegn Govt has the "right" to supercede my Individual Rights with my Govt ......EVEN with the consent of MY GOVT. Anybody that doesnt agree with me on this then I guess the next civil war will happen soon than later. Kinetic energy comes from potenial energy.....and alot of potenail energy is growing. again some things in life are very clear. Rights exists reguardless if a Govt takes they away. (they came from God) All depends on who wants to fight to protect them. The 2nd Amendment is clear The political class can sign anything they want. They can sign away the Constitution null and void. And the signing will still be meaningless to me and ,many good people I know and work with. If we have to have another civil war to get this point across then thats not my fault for the political class and other americans not understanding the Constitution. (they understand it...they just dont like it) Those that manipilate want areas of grey and confusion. Gives them room to control.

mk3hunter | 01-06-2010 10:26 AM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Individual Rights paralles the money and banking issue. Gold and silver are in the Constitution. The political class has null and voided this with FRN's..... Whatever the time table and whatever the political class signs...it will collapse. Why? Gold and Silver like Individual Rights are real.....and they work everytime. Doesnt mean they cant be violated or controled.....but given time...the potenial energy of these violations will turn to the kinetic energy of fighting back to what is real. This is the human condition. Obama can to do whatever the hell he wants. It will either speed up or slow down the potenial energy. Goes for the GOP as well. It is wierd the peace of mind I have with this issue. I first had this peace of mind when I became an armed citizen. having a personal stake in the protection of me, my family, my town..........sounds corny I know.....just hard to explain.

Twisted Avatar | 01-06-2010 10:36 AM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by mk3hunter (Post 2111144) "WE" didnt sign anything. The political class can sign anything they want. They can sign away the Constitution null and void. And the signing will still be meaningless to me and ,many good people I know and work with. If we have to have another civil war to get this point across then thats not my fault for the political class and other americans not understanding the Constitution. (they understand it...they just dont like it)
:RockOn::RockOn::RockOn::RockOn::RockOn:

Godot | 01-06-2010 10:51 AM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Quote:
Originally Posted by mk3hunter (Post 2111177) Individual Rights paralles the money and banking issue. Gold and silver are in the Constitution. The political class has null and voided this with FRN's.....
I'm no constitutional scholar so that Article 1 Section 10 thing always leaves me scratching my head.... like the declaration of war use of troops thing. If what makes a dollar a dollar or a war a war or due process due process thingy can be ignored, so can anything else. That being said; I'm far, far, far less worried about Oboma's presence in DC than I am by the Ralph Reed and Bill Cristol folks.

mk3hunter | 01-06-2010 03:46 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Quote:
That being said; I'm far, far, far less worried about Oboma's presence in DC than I am by the Ralph Reed and Bill Cristol folks.
then your only half way home to the truth. As far as Obama vs Reed Cristol you must realize they are just two sides of the same pro-Govt coin.

Saul Mine | 01-06-2010 03:50 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN A history professor explained this to me once: "When you are in power you don't worry about whether your constitution allows you to do something. You just do it. The only time you worry about legalities is when you need public support. And even then you only need the public to think it's legal."

I am me, I am free | 01-06-2010 05:27 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Mine (Post 2111777) A history professor explained this to me once: "When you are in power you don't worry about whether your constitution allows you to do something. You just do it. The only time you worry about legalities is when you need public support. And even then you only need the public to think it's legal."
Again, the perception of reality is more important than reality itself.

The Argent Dragon | 01-06-2010 05:45 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Here's my take on what's going on but first a few quotes : Quote:
.....some groups criticized the U.S. insistence that decisions on the treaty be unanimous. "The shift in position by the world's biggest arms exporter is a major breakthrough in launching formal negotiations at the United Nations in order to prevent irresponsible arms transfers," Amnesty International and Oxfam International said in a joint statement.
Ok, so everyone has to be on board (unanimous) and it's to regulate the exportation / importation of firearms (does not affect arms already in a country but from country to country). Next quote: Quote:
Arms exporters China, Russia and Israel abstained last year in a U.N. vote on the issue.
Well of course they did because we (the USA) were buying all their surplus arms over the past few years. And I'll be willing to bet these guys won't vote again hindering the UNANIMOUS part in which it won't pass. So I think it's a non issue although it sounds really scary. Lastly, IF it does pass and heavy regulations between International trades occur then PRICES increase like double, triple, etc. You'll still be able to buy AK's but expect super high price tags (which means stock up now like most of us have been doing).

Haltiat | 01-06-2010 07:12 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Quote:
Originally Posted by I am me, I am free (Post 2111992) Again, the perception of reality is more important than reality itself.
In absolute terms I disagree, but even in absolute terms perception is often as important as reality itself. No US law or politician gave Americans the right to keep and bear arms. No US law or politician can take that right away. The individual may voluntarily surrender his right until such time as he comes back to his senses but there is no legal means to rescind the traditional American liberty of keeping and bearing arms. It can only be done through perception or force of arms and there are enough people who don't buy into the warped perception to hopelessly outgun the tyrants and anti-gun-nuts. The politicians know this and that is why they don't directly ban all firearms as has been done in other countries. They understand that tens of millions of able marksmen with hundreds of millions of firearms and untold billions of rounds of ammunition would all start shooting at that point and there is no force available to any government anywhere in the world, or even the combined might of all of them, that could stand up Americans defending their rights. There is no legal way around the 2nd Amendment. Attempting to abrogate that particular right can only spark a violent conflict.

mk3hunter | 01-06-2010 07:41 PM
Re: OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2nd AMENDMEN Quote:
There is no legal way around the 2nd Amendment. Attempting to abrogate that particular right can only spark a violent conflict.
yeap when potential turns to kinetic energy

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