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madfranks | 11-21-2009 04:53 PM
C&R (Curios & Relics) License I'm thinking of getting my C&R license and I found this link to a PDF version of the application, thought I'd share: http://www.calguns.net/CR/CRFFLForm7CR.pdf The license costs $30 and is good for three years. This way you can buy C&R guns online and have them shipped to your house. There are lots of cool C&R guns out there, so it might be worth it to get the license. This is the bureaucratic red tape they make you jump through in order to exercise your "rights" regarding collector guns. By the way, here's a link to lots of online dealers who sell C&R guns: http://www.curioandrelicarms.com/cur...lers_links.htm

tulsamal | 11-21-2009 09:00 PM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License It's very much worth the effort and small amount of money. I bought pretty much all of the C&R guns I wanted in the first few years after I got the license. But I keep renewing it for the dealer discounts. Places like Midway, Graf's, and Brownell's gives you lower prices. You save that $30 in about one good sized order! Gregg

Ag_man | 11-21-2009 09:32 PM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License I;ve been on the fence regarding a C&R license for a number of years. People say it exposes you to ATF intrusions, like calling you in for inspections of your bound book, etc. I'm coming around to the way of thinking that Fedgov/ATF already knows everything about you. Why do they need a C&R to screw with you more? I'm gonna do it!

Heimdhal | 11-21-2009 10:45 PM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License Ive been thinking latley of just getting the full blown FFL and doing trasnfers for people localy. Theres only a handfull in my area, most of em charge an arm and a leg. I got all the paperwork for the C&R in summer of 08. There was a BIG thread on it here around that time. Some were all for it, others totaly against it. It convinced me to put it off and then eventualy I just forgot about it all. AG_man is right, if they are gonna bust you, they dont really need a legitimate reason to do it. The ATF already knows, at least generaly, what guns have been in your possession, unless you only do p2p. From what I understand, its not like they show up at 9 PM at your front door and barge in. Techincaly they can, but if they were trying to take you down for something, they'd do it anyways, license or not. I dunno, something to think about for sure though.

S_Goldberg | 11-21-2009 11:20 PM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 2038231) Ive been thinking latley of just getting the full blown FFL and doing trasnfers for people localy. Theres only a handfull in my area, most of em charge an arm and a leg. I got all the paperwork for the C&R in summer of 08. There was a BIG thread on it here around that time. Some were all for it, others totaly against it. It convinced me to put it off and then eventualy I just forgot about it all. AG_man is right, if they are gonna bust you, they dont really need a legitimate reason to do it. The ATF already knows, at least generaly, what guns have been in your possession, unless you only do p2p. From what I understand, its not like they show up at 9 PM at your front door and barge in. Techincaly they can, but if they were trying to take you down for something, they'd do it anyways, license or not. I dunno, something to think about for sure though.
Lots of people fear monger with respect to the ATF. Yes a few people have been screwed by them. But you can pretty much count the number of cases on one hand (maybe two if there are some I don't know about). Compare that to the number of FFLs. It is not a big deal. Just comply with the laws and you will be fine.

Ag_man | 11-21-2009 11:38 PM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License Heimdhal, I was one of those in that thread opposed to any ATF involvement. Like I said, I'm changing my thoughts on this. Your idea about going all the way with the FFL has a lot of merit.

Heimdhal | 11-21-2009 11:55 PM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 2038279) Heimdhal, I was one of those in that thread opposed to any ATF involvement. Like I said, I'm changing my thoughts on this. Your idea about going all the way with the FFL has a lot of merit.
I started looking into it. I had thought that FFL's were thousands of dollars to set up and all this and that, but it seems quite straight forwards, and unless what I was reading was outdated, the fee itself is only 200$ for a 3 year license, then 90$ to renew each addition three year period. I was told you can expect an audit at least once in a three year period on average, going up to about once a year. And generaly they (the ATF) calls you up and sets up an appointment to do so. If they think you are dealing illegaly, they can come unannounced, but they will do that even without an FFL on had, as we said. I jsut did my AK trasnfer from a local FFL who doesnt have a store, but just operates out of his house. Hes got a few safes set up and just does transfers and gun broker sales (says he cant compete at the gun shows cause we have this one company that pretty much just dominates the shows since they are an importer). Really nice guy, straight forward and had at least 15 guns waiting for pick up when I went this past weekend. He charged 25$ for the transfer, which is 15-25 less than nearly everyone else in the county. At that rate, he paid for his license in just that one weekend. So, might not bring you loads and loads of money, but certainly could be a good suppliment and maybe get you enough to open a modest store in time as well. Thats my thought process on it.

Lars Ragnarsson | 11-22-2009 01:06 AM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License I've got the C&R, and like tulsamal pointed out, I saved the cost of the license in one order from Midway. Luckily, I got mine back when you could still get SKSs. When I found out those were C&R eligible, I ordered "a couple." It's also neat as hell to order those cool, old rifles and have UPS deliver them to your front door. Heimdhal, my FFL dealer got into the biz for the same reason. He was tired of getting ripped off by other dealers charging $40 and $50 for a transfer, and got his license. Works out of his home, and has an online shop. Charges $20 an item. On his online biz, he says he makes about $15 per gun, hardly worth the effort. But he does it for principle and the 2nd Amendment. Good guy. Another guy I've used (but he's just too far away) runs a gunsmithing biz out of his home, and charges $20 per ATF Form 4473, regardless of how many items you have on it. I'm also looking into getting the class 1. First, I've got to convince the old lady that we've got room in the house for another gun safe....

Ag_man | 11-22-2009 09:22 AM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License I've got a new FFL guy just a few miles away. He has a small online and brick and mortar (converted garage) biz. He has a small retail inventory, mostly SIG pistols. One nice thing about him, is that he organizes group buys on certain firearms and directly passes on his dealers volume discount to the buyers! $20 FFL transfers, not a bad deal compared to the usual $50+ for other dealers locally. He's also very politically active on 2nd Amend. activities; IL CCW, etc.

tanner12oz | 11-22-2009 11:33 AM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License not to highjack the thread but theres a big relics show coming here next weekend....anything in particular i should look for??

tulsamal | 11-22-2009 01:01 PM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License I don't think you need to worry much about ATF inspections and a C&R. There are a couple of states that seem to have an issue. But I've had my C&R for close to a decade now and the only ATF contact I've ever had is my renewal form and the generic information letters they send out a couple times a year. IMO, the 99.9% of the people who get inspected and have problems are those people who get a C&R and then treat it like an FFL 01. A C&R specifically does NOT mean you are "in the business" of buying and selling firearms. Nothing wrong with selling something from your collection every now and then. But if you routinely buy 10 C&R rifles (all the same type) and then sell then at a gunshow, you will get a visit eventually. I've _never_ sold one of my C&R's and I think there is a connection to that and no visits! Start buying and selling dozens of them, somebody might get interested. As far as an FFL 01, most gun people have dreamed of it at one time or another. If you want to do it, go for it. But be aware that it is a night and day difference as far as ATF. ATF really has made a coordinated effort to drive out FFL 01's of the "kitchen table" variety. They want the FFL 01 to be for actual dealers with a legitimate "place of business" rather than just for "hobbyists." If you do it, they want to see an actual stream of income. Not just the occasional $20 from a friend! Gregg

tulsamal | 11-22-2009 01:06 PM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License Quote:
but theres a big relics show coming here next weekend....anything in particular i should look for??
Hmm, thinking back over the ones I've bought.... which ones do I still shoot and take down to examine? M96 Swedish Mauser Swiss K-31 Finn M39 Mosin US M1 Carbine French MAS 49/56 I have a SA Garand as well but that predates the C&R. Goes back to the old DCM days. There are lots and lots of choices out there but those would be my top picks. Oh, and my Sistema 1911. (If only you could still buy those all day for $299 shipped to your door! Why didn't I buy 10 of those?!?!) Gregg

Blorp | 11-25-2009 12:01 AM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsamal (Post 2038108) I bought pretty much all of the C&R guns I wanted in the first few years after I got the license. But I keep renewing it for the dealer discounts.
This is my second new year's resolution. I'm going to do it. There are a lot of firearms I want to buy and I like the idea of them being shipped directly to the house.

Juandisimo | 11-28-2009 09:56 AM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsamal (Post 2038889) Hmm, thinking back over the ones I've bought.... which ones do I still shoot and take down to examine? M96 Swedish Mauser Swiss K-31 Finn M39 Mosin US M1 Carbine French MAS 49/56 I have a SA Garand as well but that predates the C&R. Goes back to the old DCM days. There are lots and lots of choices out there but those would be my top picks. Oh, and my Sistema 1911. (If only you could still buy those all day for $299 shipped to your door! Why didn't I buy 10 of those?!?!) Gregg
I have had my c&r for about 5 years now, have thoroughly enjoyed it. I have an M 39 sniper that is one of the best shooting weapons I have ever owned. I also just got a K 31 this week. Shot it for the first time yesterday. LOVE that trigger!:yippee:

tulsamal | 11-28-2009 06:55 PM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License Quote:
I also just got a K 31 this week. Shot it for the first time yesterday. LOVE that trigger!
Yes, the trigger is very nice for a military rifle. The sights are nice and square and easy to pick up. The size and balance is nice. The action is slick and quite "different." The little detachable magazine is totally reliable and easy and foolproof to load. 7.5 Swiss is easy as 7.62 NATO to reload. GP11 will shoot tiny groups with most guns. If they were as easy to scope as a regular commercial bolt action rifle, they would REALLY be the deal of the century. I didn't really want to deal with a side mount so I decided to just live with the iron sights. I've got two K31's and it's a miracle I don't have more! I think I paid $99 for one of them! Gregg

Sunnankar | 11-28-2009 07:34 PM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License Quote:
Originally Posted by Juandisimo (Post 2047955) I have had my c&r for about 5 years now, have thoroughly enjoyed it. I have an M 39 sniper that is one of the best shooting weapons I have ever owned. I also just got a K 31 this week. Shot it for the first time yesterday. LOVE that trigger!:yippee:
I would get the C&R if you want it. Go with what you want. It is just another giant worthless entity and you will likely just be lost in the paperwork so I would not be too worried about the potential audit, etc.

Raymond | 11-30-2009 11:27 AM
Re: C&R (Curios & Relics) License Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsamal (Post 2048469) ...If they were as easy to scope as a regular commercial bolt action rifle, they would REALLY be the deal of the century. I didn't really want to deal with a side mount so I decided to just live with the iron sights...
I've heard good things about this: S&K Swiss K31 Scout-Style Scope Mount. ----- I also have a C&R license, very good for discounts from Brownells, MidwayUSA, etc. as mentioned above. The most dangerous thing with having a C&R is not the ATF busting down your door, it's the damage to your wallet - Lee-Enfields, Swedish Mausers, Finn M39s, all straight to your door - woohoo!

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