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Black Blade | 06-17-2008 12:47 AM
WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Officer kills man who beat toddler to death near Modesto By Dana Hull and Kelli Phillips Bay Area News Group Article Launched: 06/16/2008 01:30:12 AM PDT As eyewitnesses watched in horror, a 27-year-old Turlock man punched and stomped a toddler to death on a darkened country road Saturday night in Stanislaus County before a police officer shot and killed the attacker. Eyewitnesses tried to stop the man, who swung and slammed the child into the asphalt behind his parked four-door Toyota pickup. Investigators spent Father's Day trying to understand and cope with the savage attack on Bradbury Road, 10 miles west of Turlock near cow pastures and dairy farms. The boy's beating left police and rescue workers badly shaken, said Deputy Royjindar Singh. "Why would somebody do this?" Singh said. "In the shadows and light it looked like he had hit an animal," said Dan Robinson, chief of the Crows Landing Volunteer Fire Department, who came upon the chaos driving home from a late dinner in Turlock, in an interview with the Modesto Bee. "As we backed up again, I could see that he had blood on his arms. I could see that it was a small child." Robinson jumped from his vehicle and confronted the man, who lunged at him. Robinson said the man wasn't screaming and wasn't loud, but was forceful, saying "demons" were in the boy. "Give me the knife. Give me the knife," the man said as he grabbed for a pen in the fireman's front pocket. "There was a total hollowness in his eyes," Robinson said, "like I could see right through to the back of his head." An elderly couple was first on the scene, calling 911 about 10:15 p.m. to describe the terror unfolding before their eyes. The man ripped the child out of a car seat in the back of a pickup truck, threw him to the ground and kicked and stomped him against the pavement, witnesses told deputies. At least three people yelled at the man and attempted to pull him off the boy, but were brushed back by the attacker. Coroner's deputies believe they know the boy's name, but "due to the severity of his injuries making a visual identification is nearly impossible," Singh said. Seeking a connection They were also trying to establish the connection between the attacker and the boy. Authorities were attempting to contact family members on Sunday, but Singh said many live out of the area. A Stanislaus County sheriff's helicopter flying in the area on another matter arrived about six minutes after the initial 911 call. Officers in the helicopter could see the man beating a child on the road. Because patrol deputies were still several minutes away, they decided to land in a field near the man's vehicle, Singh said. The helicopter's tactical flight officer, a Modesto police officer, ran toward the suspect with his gun drawn, but he was unable to reach the roadway because of an electric and barbed wire fence, Singh said. "When the flight officer first contacted the suspect and tried to get him to stop, the infant was on the ground and the suspect was kicking and stomping the child," Singh said. "The officer demanded that the man stop, but he just continued his assault." The officer, who has not been identified, then shot the man, who was pronounced dead at the scene. The toddler was taken to Emanuel Medical Center in Turlock, where he was pronounced dead shortly after arrival. "Some of the key questions we're trying to answer is why this happened?" Singh said. "What was going on before the suspect left? Where was he going? Where had he been? What was going on in his life that day?" Stanislaus County Sheriff Adam Christianson sent department employees an e-mail Sunday offering assistance to any staff member affected by the incident, Singh said. "It does hit home, especially for the deputies with children and those officers in the helicopter that attempted to save the boy's life," he said. "This is one of the more violent scenes they've ever seen. It involves a victim who is defenseless and helpless. And it's Father's Day." Nurse shaken Nurse Isabelle Thomas, who lives a few hundred yards from the scene, was working at Emanuel Medical Center when her son called her with word something bad had happened. Soon she heard of the little boy who died 500 yards from her front door. "I couldn't go to sleep," she said. "I couldn't rest without seeing it and all that blood. I couldn't believe all that blood." http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_959990...ce=most_viewed Black Blade: An armed citizen could have stopped this, but remember that this is in The Peoples Republik of Kalifornica where people are wimps and actually enjoy being victims. Personally, I probably would not have killed the man but would have easily have performed a quick 45 calibre sex change operation at the risk of a long prison term for "violating his rights" - but some people just should not be allowed to breed.

sindgefallen | 06-17-2008 03:14 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK This is sick. F*** this guy I am glad he is dead! I know the area well and can assure you that many rural residents go around armed. Sad thing is that people are too AFRAID to do anything about it as they might receive harm. Sickens me. I can only imagine the beating that demon man would have received from me if I had been there to stop it. He got off easy with a bullet. They should string up his body up in a tree then burn it. Disgusting!

Twisted Avatar | 06-17-2008 06:48 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK "There was a total hollowness in his eyes," Robinson said, "like I could see right through to the back of his head." Something is not right.......... there is more to this story.......I dont think is was just conventional drugs....... something is deeply out of sync. We need more information. T

SilverSalmon | 06-17-2008 06:54 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by sindgefallen (Post 1149930) This is sick. F*** this guy I am glad he is dead! I know the area well and can assure you that many rural residents go around armed. Sad thing is that people are too AFRAID to do anything about it as they might receive harm. Sickens me. I can only imagine the beating that demon man would have received from me if I had been there to stop it. He got off easy with a bullet. They should string up his body up in a tree then burn it. Disgusting!
I'm with you. A slow long torture would be appropriate.

Big_Rob | 06-17-2008 09:30 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK I would have shot him had I seen that. And furthermore, I would have been legally justified.

SLV>GLD | 06-17-2008 09:52 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1150017) [B][COLOR="Red"]there is more to this story
my sentiments, exactly.

Twisted Avatar | 06-17-2008 10:01 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Rob (Post 1150170) I would have shot him had I seen that. And furthermore, I would have been legally justified.
The rare instance....... but the goons and the DA would have STILL tried to give you the run around. Of that we can be certain. T

Avalon | 06-17-2008 10:09 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1150222) The rare instance....... but the goons and the DA would have STILL tried to give you the run around. Of that we can be certain. T
TA, as time passes you will see more of this. Don't you see the division? People will no longer ride the fence. They will choose between good and evil. Once the choice is made to go to the dark side outside forces are easily able to enter and commit these monsterous acts.....

the toxic avenger | 06-17-2008 10:41 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK The officer shouldn't have even bothered to waste the time to order the man to stop. He should have took him out ASAP. Why the hell would someone waste time and allow the perp to stomp one or more additional times? The fatal blow could have been delivered in between the order to stop and the shot. If I ever see a grown man beating a small child to death, that bastard won't hear a single sound.

Twisted Avatar | 06-17-2008 10:47 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK 2 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by the toxic avenger (Post 1150296) The officer shouldn't have even bothered to waste the time to order the man to stop. He should have took him out ASAP. Why the hell would someone waste time and allow the perp to stomp one or more additional times? The fatal blow could have been delivered in between the order to stop and the shot. If I ever see a grown man beating a small child to death, that bastard won't hear a single sound.
.....................

JJ_ | 06-17-2008 11:42 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK That's some sick sh!t. My God- I don't even have words to comment on it other than that.:bear_angry: Shoulda Woulda Coulda... its too late now.

<SLV> | 06-17-2008 12:14 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Must be narcotics involved there. I expect to hear that is the result of the autopsy. This is one of the great dangers of the libertarian mindset to the drug war. I'm not saying I'm in favor of the "war on drugs", but if anything goes, then pharmaceutical companies will make sure that their products are exceptionally powerful.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 06-17-2008 12:15 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by sindgefallen (Post 1149930) Sad thing is that people are too AFRAID to do anything about it as they might receive harm.
I have a different view, brother. I think people are afraid to do anything because at some level they know that A) if they get physically involved at all B) they will be the ones our illustrious state sends to jail. And even if a good lawyer keeps you out of jail, it will likely set you back $10K or more in legal fees. The all-powerful state does awful things to good Samaritans, sad to say. People just figure "oh well, I'm not getting involved."

mtnman | 06-17-2008 12:20 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Rob (Post 1150170) I would have shot him had I seen that. And furthermore, I would have been legally justified.
In Californacate you would have been charged with MURDER and Possession of a firearm. They're not the same as most of the rest of the country. But I agree with you!!!

Big_Rob | 06-17-2008 03:00 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 1150455) In Californacate you would have been charged with MURDER and Possession of a firearm. They're not the same as most of the rest of the country. But I agree with you!!!
Thats the good thing about Florida. If I have to shoot someone that is commiting a forceable felony against a defensless person and there are witnesses that are willing to corroborate my story that I shot in defense of someone that was victim to a forceable felony, Im immune from prosecution. Floridas firearms laws are pretty awesome.

Twisted Avatar | 06-17-2008 04:25 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Rob (Post 1150693) Thats the good thing about Florida. If I have to shoot someone that is commiting a forceable felony against a defensless person and there are witnesses that are willing to corroborate my story that I shot in defense of someone that was victim to a forceable felony, Im immune from prosecution. Floridas firearms laws are pretty awesome.
+1 on that I remember seeing that show MSNBC........ "To catch a predator" when they were setting up sting operations to get those pedophiles. They said the number one reason why they had such a exessive show of force( full swat teams) where THEY WE AFFRAID THAT PERSON MAY BE PACKING HEAT CAUSE THE GUN LAWS ARE SO "LIBERAL" IN FLORIDA They were fearful of possible CCW's. T

goldbug | 06-17-2008 04:47 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1150445) Must be narcotics involved there. I expect to hear that is the result of the autopsy. This is one of the great dangers of the libertarian mindset to the drug war. I'm not saying I'm in favor of the "war on drugs", but if anything goes, then pharmaceutical companies will make sure that their products are exceptionally powerful.
you are assuming drugs were involved. the war failed to stop this attack

goldbug | 06-17-2008 04:48 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by sindgefallen (Post 1149930) This is sick. F*** this guy I am glad he is dead! I know the area well and can assure you that many rural residents go around armed. Sad thing is that people are too AFRAID to do anything about it as they might receive harm. Sickens me. I can only imagine the beating that demon man would have received from me if I had been there to stop it. He got off easy with a bullet. They should string up his body up in a tree then burn it. Disgusting!
no trial? giving up on principles?

goldbug | 06-17-2008 04:51 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSalmon (Post 1150021) I'm with you. A slow long torture would be appropriate.
waterboarding? electracution? dog bites? based on hearsay evidence without a hearing? is this person an enemy combatant?

sindgefallen | 06-17-2008 07:25 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
I have a different view, brother. I think people are afraid to do anything because at some level they know that A) if they get physically involved at all B) they will be the ones our illustrious state sends to jail. And even if a good lawyer keeps you out of jail, it will likely set you back $10K or more in legal fees. The all-powerful state does awful things to good Samaritans, sad to say. People just figure "oh well, I'm not getting involved."
Good point and sad but true HIVE.

Prometheus | 06-17-2008 07:27 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1150802) They said the number one reason why they had such a exessive show of force( full swat teams) where THEY WE AFFRAID THAT PERSON MAY BE PACKING HEAT CAUSE THE GUN LAWS ARE SO "LIBERAL" IN FLORIDA They were fearful of possible CCW's. T
Total bullshit. In the story they said time and again they knew exactly who these peopel were and chris hansen had their public arrest records in front of him along with the chat logs. They knew if these people had CCW permits longer before they drove up. That was just justification for their gestapo tactics. Looks at the take downs in other states with even less stringent gun laws, nothing like that happened. No swat team / JBT take downs in that regard. Just an excuse to use excessive force.

sindgefallen | 06-17-2008 07:28 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
no trial? giving up on principles?
If you had read the post in full you would have noticed that I said IF I WAS THERE. Usually this means that I was actual witness to a crime in progress that under California law would have been justifiable homicide. Of course I would stop a crime like that.

sindgefallen | 06-17-2008 07:34 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
waterboarding? electracution? dog bites? based on hearsay evidence without a hearing? is this person an enemy combatant?
What does enemy combatant status have anything to do with this story? He never said that he wanted to torture the guy for a confession or information. He just eluded that if the guy DID this then this is what he deserves and he does. You should not assume things with no evidence said by the parties you are accusing. How can you politicise something like an infant being beaten to death? Are you just indirectly accusing the police of abuse or what?

____hoot____ | 06-17-2008 08:39 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Sounds like what happens when a person goes off cold turkey on a fluoride containing Prozac type drug. We had a guy in that situation in my home town take his little boys down to his work place and throw them into a foundry furnace, because of the "devils" in them.

Waylon | 06-17-2008 09:37 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK This is the saddest thing I have read in some time. Poor, poor child to have been born to such a person. I really don't give a flying duck why this guy did what he did. I'm glad he is dead and I only wish it could have been a slower, more painful death. Twisted, sick SOB! None of it brings the child back. When a child dies, it is the very essence of sadness.

JJ_ | 06-18-2008 09:47 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by Waylon (Post 1151236) None of it brings the child back. When a child dies, it is the very essence of sadness.
That is the bottom line right there. I hate to see kids hurt.

Big_Rob | 06-18-2008 10:23 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK If he was on drugs, (and Ive taken my fair share of cocaine and marijuana in the past so I have a clue about what high is) Im willing to bet that he was prolly smoking PCP. And Goldbug, Its not hearsay evidence when there were people that were there witnessing the event that were trying to get this man off the child. The man was in the act of committing an extremely violent felonious crime against a child. IE: Murder. IMO you would shoot a wild animal that was attacking a baby (and thats what were talking about here a 1-2 year old baby) I for one am glad that the police did their job by taking this piece of shit out. Although sadly, they didn't shoot quick enough to prevent the child from being murdered.

Twisted Avatar | 06-18-2008 10:47 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1151721) That is the bottom line right there. I hate to see kids hurt.
+1 on that ........... terrible, terrible. T

Mike C | 06-18-2008 08:39 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK I would have shot him as well, then I would have probably burst into tears for the kid, as I kicked the lifeless thug's body to the side to try to do whatever was possible for the kid. Kudos to the helicopter for landing and trying to do something about this, and in my state the officer would not have even been questioned about the actions of shooting him. It's defense of others, meaning totally justified. This is just sad.....

Drumblebum | 06-18-2008 09:14 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Rob (Post 1151783) If he was on drugs, (and Ive taken my fair share of cocaine and marijuana in the past so I have a clue about what high is) Im willing to bet that he was prolly smoking PCP. And Goldbug, Its not hearsay evidence when there were people that were there witnessing the event that were trying to get this man off the child. The man was in the act of committing an extremely violent felonious crime against a child. IE: Murder. IMO you would shoot a wild animal that was attacking a baby (and thats what were talking about here a 1-2 year old baby) I for one am glad that the police did their job by taking this piece of shit out. Although sadly, they didn't shoot quick enough to prevent the child from being murdered.
I think I get where Goldbug is coming from, playing devil's advocate, for it is easy (especially in this particular case) for emotions to lead conclusions. I refer especially to the slow death/torture/hung up and burned talk. I think the folks on this board aren't as susceptible to a total breakdown of reason when confronted with stories such as these, at least compared with J6P... who calls for non-violent "terrorist" marijuana smokers and people that don't like Dumbya to be tortured and killed. In the best of worlds, the police would actually do what they are supposed to do - protect and serve the public. In this case it appears that they made an attempt to do just that - protect an innocent person from another intent on doing them harm. The way this particular situation apparently went down, an arrest and trial would be completely out of the question. Action had to be taken immediately, and deadly force was justified. If the police limited taking action to ONLY what they are supposed to do, the amount of arrests would plummet, and justified shootings would skyrocket. Most of the time they would be at the donut shop - because incidents like this one, I think are relatively rare. Violent freaks like this one are always going to exist. If the state would lay off the good people just making their way in life and concentrate on shitbags like the one in this story, everbody would be a little happier, and likely a lot safer.

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C4talyst | 06-19-2008 01:03 AM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK Quote:
Originally Posted by goldbug (Post 1150845) no trial? giving up on principles?
If the story told is accurate, common sense would indicate no need for a trial here. The trial took place on the side of the road that night, and rightly so.

Black Blade | 06-20-2008 01:36 PM
Re: WITNESSES COULDN'T STOP ROADSIDE ATTACK NEW EDITORIAL UNARMED ADULTS COULDN'T HELP It's a shame a cop shot and killed a 27-year-old man who was busy stomping and punching a toddler to death June 15 in Stanislaus County, Calif. It's tragic because someone else should have stopped the killer before police arrived on the scene. The police were too late, and the baby died. That's not to criticize the cops. Most would move mountains to get to a child in peril. Few would wince at shooting a child killer. But they will almost always be too late to counter violent crime in progress. Ordinary folks, however, stumble on violent crime more often. The child died because nobody on scene was able to do anything useful. At least three people stopped their cars and tried to intervene, but the baby killer was too strong, too hostile and too charged with adrenaline for the passersby to overpower him. None was equipped to do what the cop did. Colorado has a shall-issue law that requires sheriffs to issue concealed carry permits to nearly anyone who applies. California does not, but it should. In Stanislaus County the sheriff 's department issues permits only to special people who can show "good cause." To qualify, an applicant must prove that he or she "is in greater peril of criminal victimization than the average citizen and/or for whom professional law enforcement assistance is unreasonably diffcult to obtain given their particular circumstances." It probably doesn't hurt to be wealthy or well-conected, either. It's a law that reflects old-school thinking about law and order, ignoring the fact that more guns mean less crime. The "good cause" policy is most unfortunate, and it probably reduced this baby's chances at life. A better reason to qualify a citizen for a permit is the mere possibility he or she may come upon some maniac beating a child along the road. Or, the possibility of the applicant happening upon a violent rape. Or the possibility of the applicant being raped. It's not unusual for just plain ordinary folks, like those who wanted to stop the brutal murder of a child, to find themselves needing guns. That's why more states need shall-issue laws like Colorado's, freeing up citizens to carry weapons without having to prove special status. Law-abiding citizens shouldn't have to explain why they want or need to carry weapons in their cars, purses or hidden holsters. Passersby almost always stumble on crime scenes before cops arrive. If just one is properly prepared and equipped, he or she might be able to save a life. http://www.gazette.com/opinion/drunk...e_failure.html (Bottom of page) "When second count, police will be there in minutes"? Hmmm... good one.

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