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- - Choose your battle rifle.... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=429366)

Stealinator | 12-04-2009 06:17 AM
Choose your battle rifle.... Watched these few weeks back, thought others might find them interesting. Think of it as a , if it pisses you off even a little, just maybe it only means you might want to get out to the range a bit more offten. I personally know of a couple of people who bought pistols/rifles , for the just in case, and have never even fired them. Vids are also informative on actual posting title. You Tube
You Tube
You Tube
You Tube

eat_beef | 12-04-2009 09:48 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Guy has a good point RE training, but he really isn't all that sharp with physics.:bear_rolleyes: Oh, and IBTL.

Professur | 12-04-2009 09:55 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Battle rifle? My money's on the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid.

buff01 | 12-04-2009 11:06 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 2059335) Battle rifle? My money's on the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid.
Then AK it is! EDIT: This guy just sounds like a mall ninja on steroids. And he needs a basic physics course.

Kregener | 12-04-2009 11:22 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... If his main objective is to put distance between him and an enemy, why did he leave the M1A out of his presentation? :biggrin:

General of Darkness | 12-04-2009 11:25 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... I own 3 of the top ten battle rifles. :wink:

mick silver | 12-04-2009 11:39 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... ak47.... ar15......... 7mm ........... 30/30 and a nice saiga 12 ga

MISRy | 12-04-2009 12:08 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Rather opinionated isn't he. Poor guy is solo protecting his his family. My wife can put one in your eye at 20m with a makarov and if you hear the shotgun rack it's too late, my daughters can both field strip and qualify, (at *least* 90/100 center of mass @ 100m), with their AK's and my CETME rings the plate 20/20 at 600m. None of us are svelte by any stretch mainly because we aren't planning for the StoHTF but if it does our Bugout packs are ready for the week it'll take us to walk to the farm. We are the family you see walking through the mall in squad line using battle sign to communicate. (The kids don't know that's what we're doing but I catch someone catching us doing it now and then.)

Texasrunner43 | 12-04-2009 12:12 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... I have an 1810 Kentucky Long Rifle, so I'm ready. My grandfather use to hunt with it but I don't think it's been fired in the last 40-50 yrs. Of course my back up is AR-15.

TUMS | 12-04-2009 12:35 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... The closest I have came to buying a *battle rifle* is a mini 14 ranch rifle. I'm more of a fancy O/U kind of person. The only thing I plan on battling is quail and pheasant in Idaho.

GOLD DUCK | 12-04-2009 12:39 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Quote:
Originally Posted by buff01 (Post 2059466) Then AK it is! EDIT: This guy just sounds like a mall ninja on steroids. And he needs a basic physics course.
QWAK,Sounds like a guy that BRASSOES his BRASS :hahaha::thinkey: a little TOO over the TOP prepared and could or likely WILL end up DEAD and plans or IMAGINES it to be GLORIOUS! :36_1_30::36_1_25::confused_ma: the DUCK :15_1_70v:

SilverCity | 12-04-2009 12:59 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Recommend: AKs or SKS for kids, women, neophytes--simple to operate, manageable recoil, with some practice, torso hits @200yards. ARs require a bit more training and maintenance skills to keep it running. However, the inherent accuracy MIGHT help one overcome lesser rifleman skills...YMMV The Samson prayer was a nice touch...

Patriotme | 12-06-2009 11:12 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... I have just a few points to make. 1) In spite of being an arrogant SOB this guy seems to know his stuff. He should however thank all of those "Plump" gun owners that are buying AK's and AR's. They are the reason why the assault weapon ban was allowed to run out and they are the reason why the Dems are fearful about proposing another one. If the only AR or AK owners out there were the slim guys doing 200 pushups per day then a permanent assault weapon ban would still be in effect. 2) We are in a current gun and ammo bubble. Generally the more demand there is for a product the cheaper it is made and sold. Once this bubble pops and prices drop there will be a ton of excess AK's, AR's and ammo out there at very reasonable prices. This will draw even more gun owners into the market and hopefully even more assault weapon owners. I don't care if these guys look like Boss Hogg or The Rock. I just want more legal gun owners voting in our interest. 3) If the SHTF I will aprreciate every single "Plump" cammie wearing gunowner that is out there. Most of those that are preparing for the worst are thinking of the future, their families and are at least smart enough to prepare for the worst. I will put one fat, AK owning, cammie wearing prepper against a dozen unprepared sheeple sitting on the curb with a "Please Rescue Me" sign any day. If nothing else they are a source of ammo and guns on the market should they become "Gun Donors." 4) I was a Marine (0331). I respect the guy's service that made the video but I have to ask if that dorky pic of him in the first video covered in M-16s is the best proof of his professionalism as a soldier.. It looks like something a cook or office type might take. I could also see mall ninjas taking similiar pics. 5) The 5.56 is a puny round but there are hundreds of millions of rounds out there. A large portion of that ammo is reloadable. I cannot even guess how much 5.56 is sitting in homes, gun stores, police stations and military bases. It's probably 20 times the amount of 7.62x51mm in circulation. Puny, mid level cartridges are better than no cartridges. There's a lot of 7.62x39mm out there but most of it seems to be steel cased Russian ammo. There's nothing wrong with that but most of it cannot be reloaded. When it's gone that's it. The amount of brass 7.62x39mm out there seems quite low. I base this on my observations about what is selling at gun stores, gun shows and Wal-Mart. You stock what sells. Since SHTF was brought up in the video I think it's relevent to mention that of the 3 rounds listed 5.56 will most likely be available long after the other two calibers are gone.

Gaillo | 12-07-2009 01:29 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Choose my battle rifle? If I could have (and I can...) any rifle yet produced by any nation for combat purposes, my short list would be: M1 Garand in .308 Win. (or .30-06, if I couldn't get the .308 variant...) FAL in .308 Win. AK-47 in 7.62x39 M16/A2 in .223 Rem. In that order. I'd probably give an honorable mention to the M14 - if it weren't so damned heavy. I think the ideal "dream" battle rifle would be a M1 Garand in .260 Rem., if they ever make such a variant I'll sell all my other semi's to buy as many of those as I could get.

AG Capone | 12-07-2009 02:01 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Check out the idiot's AK pistol. It has a forward grip attached and I'm willing to bet by his complete arrogance and the overall cheapness of the weapon he doesn't have a tax stamp for it. Hope somebody tells him that's a felony in these parts, Veteran or not.

electric-amish | 12-07-2009 07:04 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... When the Ammo shortage hit last Jan I could not find common recommended caliber stuff. I found all I could want of 6.5x55 sweede ect but the 223 and 308 was gone. The starange Calibers were still available. When the hording starts in earnest you better realy on you stash not the proverbial #s in circulation. E-A

<SLV> | 12-07-2009 08:59 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Nothing less than .30 cal for a true battle rifle. I prefer .308. Best? DS ARMS STG-58 w/bipod. Reach out and protect a perimiter. AK and AR are both OK in the median combat range of 60M.

shades2 | 12-07-2009 09:43 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Hmm.. this has been done to death, but anyway... If price is no object? Sniper rifle: Sako TRG-42 in .338 Lapua Magnum. Schmidt & Bender or Zeiss scope. If you need to reach out and touch somebody.. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ako_TRG-42.jpg Battle rifle: H&K 416 chambered in .308 (7.62x51mm) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...00px-HK416.jpg or G3A2 or G3A3 or similar in .308 http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/gu.../H%26KG3A3.PNG You Tube
You Tube
And an Arsenal AK47 or AK74 in 7.62x39mm with milled reciever and forged bits as a backup weapon, and tungsten core ammo. :) (Yes I know most AK74's come in 5.45mmx39mm, this one doesn't). (Yes I also know tungsten core ammo or even hardened steel core ammo is impossible to get) http://www.impactguns.com/store/medi..._SLR107-62.jpg SIG sidearm. P229 in .357SIG. There are so many good battle rifles around if you go looking: Another one that deserves a mention is the SIG SG 550 Swiss Rifle, normally 5.56x45mm/.223: http://www.swissrifles.com/sig550.jpg Why .308 you ask? Because 7.62x51mm gives you range. There have been a lot of cases where 5.56x45mm/.223 just couldn't make the distance, particularly if you're down in a valley and the enemy can lob rounds at you. AK is not accurate at longer distance, but it has penetrating power for closer engagements and if you can get the sweet ammo, it will go through ceramic vests. (probably not something like Dragonskin though) Please do take this all with a grain of salt, as everything I know I've learnt from reading and speaking with some people who have been in battle. I do not own a rifle (but hope to one day). I have also never been in a firefight of any kind. In a SHTF scenario this would be my ideal sort of load-out, I haven't covered shotguns as they have also been done to death before in other threads.

Irons | 12-07-2009 10:05 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... AK's and AR's are assault rifles, defined by the intermediate size cartridge. 223, 7.62/39 etc. Battle rifles are defined by a full size cartridge, 30.06, 308, etc-FAL, HK 91, M-14, Garand etc. Diden't matter to clinton as they were all banned.

shades2 | 12-07-2009 11:03 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Irons (Post 2063840) AK's and AR's are assault rifles, defined by the intermediate size cartridge. 223, 7.62/39 etc. Battle rifles are defined by a full size cartridge, 30.06, 308, etc-FAL, HK 91, M-14, Garand etc. Diden't matter to clinton as they were all banned.
You can get AK74's and AR's (such as the AR-10) chambered in .308 also. This would move them firmly into the battle rifle category. A battle rifle is generally considered to be a large rifle in a powerful calibre with a full-length barrel, and are usually quite heavy due to this. They aren't suited for close-range engagements in built up areas. Such a rifle is more suited for effective engagements at 500 yards+ and can harrass the enemy at say 800m-1000m.

Haltiat | 12-08-2009 04:47 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Hoo-boy! During the four years this gentleman was training to kill every day (hyperbole, even for an infantryman) he must not have been exposed to very many foreign weapon systems or harsh conditions if he's calling an AR-15 "extremely reliable." There are those small arms which are extremely reliable and then there are those which are not. An AR-15 or it's "professional" variants would fall into the category of "somewhat passable" when compared to the best the word has to offer. Perhaps he meant "extremely reliable" as compared to a flintlock? The AR has its good points and that's why I own one but extreme reliability? Hehe. No. Likewise he's ignorant of what an AK can do or even what the professionals who use them have to accomplish for qualification... never mind the rifles that are built on a Kalashnikov action but chambered for a round other than 7.62x39 which includes some sub-moa rifles. AR's in the hands of almost every Western government? The man must be on LSD. I really want to see a demonstration of his long distance self defense too. What do you do? Ask the home invaders to wait on the porch while you grab your AR and run 500 yards off into the distance to engage them under conditions you feel are more favorable? That's a nice 500 yard group he delivers but I would like to see how well he does with that same glass at 25 or 50 yards, against a target that shoots back. He doesn't know much about terminal ballistics either. This guy needs to spend less time on Arfcom. A lot of folks latch onto marksmanship because it is easy and cheap to practice, plus it fulfills a need to instant gratification. Unfortunately benchrest shooting has nothing to do with self defense. For all he worries about who's a professional soldier or not he deftly evades the fact that professional soldiers can barely manage irate herdsman and peasant farmers when they don't have the benefit of air dominance. As far as that goes, when in history people have risen up against tyranny they have won more often than not... even against those vaunted professional soldiers. The key is the photo of himself he showed us in his first clip. That accurately portrays a professional soldier, a wacky kid. Once that wacky kid is being shot at he becomes a scared kid. No government hands out super soldier fairy dust. Professional militaries are powerful for reasons other than their skill with small arms. The point is guys like this are a dime a dozen and they all have a video, rant, whatever. Here's the straight dope. The dangerous guys are already dangerous. If you aren't one of them then you already know you need some training and that even that won't make you dangerous. Or you're a moron. Don't get me wrong, the world is chock full of morons but that isn't a problem anybody's rant is going to solve. Not even mine. Where it gets interesting is all the people who have inaccurate perceptions of themselves and others.

Heimdhal | 12-08-2009 12:27 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Halitat, THanks for your synopsis. Im sure youll get some flame for it, but I cant fault many of your points. One of them I would like to point out is the marksmanship aspect. Marksmanship is very important, no matter who you are, if you cant actualy HIT what you are AIMING at, you are going to get nowhere real fast, or dead real fast. However, there is a difference between SHOOTING your rifle and FIGHTING with your rifle. No one with any serious expectations of using their rifle for life and limb should thinkt that just cause they can get a 2 moa group at 500 yards they can take on any threat. Bench resting is fun to shoot, great for testing optics or trigger/breath control skills. It is NOT training to fight, it is training to shoot and should not be relied upon in any fashion for the latter. Train as you fight, fight as you train. You WILL revert to your training so make sure you train to FIGHT not just shoot.

Haltiat | 12-08-2009 07:45 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... If I draw any heat for that post then I probably deserve it. I could have been a little more tactful. Nevertheless it is as you said, being able to hit your target is a necessary skill but it isn't the only skill. The actual level of accuracy is a minor point compared to tactics when it comes to actual gun fighting. Rex Applegate and others got into this in regards to training police, soldiers or others to use a handgun for defense and advocated the use of a silhouette instead of a bull's eye so the trainee wouldn't be falsely discouraged.... i.e. "wow, that hit would have destroyed the badguy's liver!" versus "oh rats, I missed the x ring again." It's good to have tactics and accuracy but three shots through the same hole at 500 yards, impressive as it is, is not going to be helpful when you're responding to a bump in the night. A big 10x scope is going to be useless close in. Knowing how to clear a building and reacting quickly and correctly to shoot/no shoot scenarios would be much more beneficial. A 1x optical sight with illuminated reticle makes more sense than an astronomical telescope on a defensive long arm and it will even help at long distances. Instead of trying to talk the unwashed masses into becoming benchrest shooters he should have been telling them to go buy an airsoft and a Suarez dvd. (there are other good trainers teaching good tactics. I like Suarez, though he can keep his politics. The point is learn and practice some tactics instead of just marksmanship) Oh yeah, and a jazzercize dvd while they're at it. :9536::biggrin:

Tallships | 12-08-2009 07:55 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Is there no love for the Mosin Nagant ? It may not repeat fire 40 rounds, but it has good range and plenty of power. If I were to go out alone in the mountains with just one rifle, The Mosin would be my pick.

hypervel | 12-08-2009 09:28 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... .....it might be my wife having to use the rifle for HD. " Here, Honey! Here's a real asskicker for ya. Now go on and protect the home front." Not.

MetalManiac | 12-08-2009 09:52 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 2065829) Is there no love for the Mosin Nagant ? It may not repeat fire 40 rounds, but it has good range and plenty of power. If I were to go out alone in the mountains with just one rifle, The Mosin would be my pick.
Yup. They're good to use for spear fishing too since they're like 6 FEET LONG with the bayonet!!! :ok:

platinumdude | 12-08-2009 11:19 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... I agree, unless we are in a madmax situation most shootouts will be in close range were the ak-47 has the advantage.

Heimdhal | 12-09-2009 12:03 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 2066151) I agree, unless we are in a madmax situation most shootouts will be in close range were the ak-47 has the advantage.
even then though, short of being in actual sustain Combat, most long range situations it is more adventagous to just get the f*** away from the threat than to attempt to engange or close the distance. Distance is your friend, even in self defense situation. In fact ESPECIALY in self defense situations. What I mean is, soldiers are likley to engage at distances beyond self defense because they may be taking, retaking or defending an objective. If were in mad max and you're just trying to survive, you DO NOT want to be in prolonged fire fights. It eats up ammo and every second you are in it brings a higher statistical chance of you ending up dead or seriously wounded. If the zombies or hordes come, use your weapon to FIGHT your way TO saftey, not to sustain the fight. Unless of course you're defending something, and even then.....this is where TACTICS come into play. Having trained your mind to react appropriatly.

TUMS | 12-09-2009 09:04 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... I'm curious just how many of you Rambo wannabes have been in an actual gun fight..... If not, you might want to consider stock piling depends underware along with your bunker full of ammo. Your not going to "SAVE AMERICA". America was gone a long time ago.

Haltiat | 12-09-2009 11:10 AM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... You should go post that in that guy's YouTube comments.

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Haltiat | 12-10-2009 12:37 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Here, I made this video so you can all benefit from my ferocious fighting powers. You Tube
You Tube

Awoke | 12-12-2009 01:42 PM
Re: Choose your battle rifle.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotme (Post 2063411) He should however thank all of those "Plump" gun owners that are buying AK's and AR's. They are the reason why the assault weapon ban was allowed to run out and they are the reason why the Dems are fearful about proposing another one.
It's hard work, stopping those weapons bans! http://flf0fq.bay.livefilestore.com/...n%20owners.jpg

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