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SilverSalmon | 06-03-2008 10:38 PM
mtnman and Shooting Placement Hey mntman and others, But especially mntman, you talk a lot about shot placement, and I hear you. So I want some advice: 1. How did you do it ? Get so good at shooting? 2. What do you suggest for others? How can we get as good or almost as good as you in shot placement ? 3. I'm thinking about going Thunder Ranch http://www.thunderranchinc.com/courses.html or Gun site http://www.gunsite.com/ , once I get my basic skills up here locally. Probably by Xmas I'll be ready, maybe 2009. Do you recommend any places like this for practice?

Abouthadit | 06-03-2008 10:54 PM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement Cant speak for Mtnman, but I learned: BRASS: breathe, relax, aim, slack (as in take up the, in a 2 stage M14 trigger), and squeeze. Hold em and squeeze em. Do the same thing every time, and be sure to know your weapon. practice practice practice.

mick silver | 06-03-2008 11:02 PM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement like abouthadit said breath relax aim an pull the trigger slowly

Canadian-guerilla | 06-04-2008 10:18 AM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement as said before - practice-practice-practice and not just in " perfect " conditions/settings practice in the rain, in the snow lay in place for 2-3 hours just for 1 shot at a rabbit put yourself in unusual/difficult positions and shoot when TSHTF, " enemies " may not give you the time to set up and find a nice shooting spot if you want to try something different while you're shooting at a 100+ yd target have a friend, 60-100 ft away, shooting at you with a paintball gun

Twisted Avatar | 06-04-2008 10:27 AM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement Get your education...... as that will be the best way to make sure you do not form bad habbits After you have a solid foundation........ practice as much as you can resonably afford. T

Squirrel Bait | 06-04-2008 11:34 AM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement Quote:
Originally Posted by Abouthadit (Post 1130873) Cant speak for Mtnman, but I learned: BRASS: breathe, relax, aim, slack (as in take up the, in a 2 stage M14 trigger), and squeeze. Hold em and squeeze em. Do the same thing every time, and be sure to know your weapon. practice practice practice.
I would agree with the BRASS process, BUT you need to get rid of the word or concept of SQUEEZE and replace it with PRESSURE. The technique on the trigger needs to be a very gentle or systematic thing and the word squeeze invokes a different thought process which can lead to jiggling or pulling. Also, what are you using for a target. Part of placement of a shot is knowing where it put the bullet and then practicing the movements on a resonable facsimily of that target. Are you paper punching, or action shooting, are you moving(ie, moving forward, sideways?). I got a good eye opening when a friend of mine suggested walking forward while engaging the target. I had never done that and it takes a different set of skills than shooting while stationary. It is worth practicing this. my 2 cents s

JJ_ | 06-04-2008 12:13 PM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 1131455) if you want to try something different while you're shooting at a 100+ yd target have a friend, 60-100 ft away, shooting at you with a paintball gun
No thanks - I dont want paint on my rifle:D

TTAZZMAN | 06-04-2008 04:15 PM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement I would point out there are many shooting situations which require different techniques. Practice is key in any situation and in real life there is very little set place shooting. a couple of real world situations might include practiceing as follows.. run....50yards...then set-up and do a long range shot 100yds plus in less than 5 seconds...standing-kneeling-prone..(good real life rifle practice)(teaches you set shooting under pressure) fast walk stepping (fwd/sdw/bwd) while engageing multiple targets with multiple shots from close range includeing drawing and mag changes at under 15yds ...(good real life pistol practice) (also teaches you reflex shooting techniques) Learn Reflex shotgun shooting while walking...engageing multiple targets. to me reflex shooting is a key skill to learn and practice in real life very few shots are taken from a shooter bench with props and sand bags in reality while this can be fun it mostly is a function of the equipment you are shooting with

mtnman | 06-04-2008 08:37 PM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSalmon (Post 1130852) Hey mntman and others, But especially mntman, you talk a lot about shot placement, and I hear you. So I want some advice: 1. How did you do it ? Get so good at shooting? 2. What do you suggest for others? How can we get as good or almost as good as you in shot placement ? 3. I'm thinking about going Thunder Ranch http://www.thunderranchinc.com/courses.html or Gun site http://www.gunsite.com/ , once I get my basic skills up here locally. Probably by Xmas I'll be ready, maybe 2009. Do you recommend any places like this for practice?
Dang, I�ve never been asked that question. I got my first rifle when I was 7 or 8 years old, its still at my fathers house. A lever action Marlin .22. That was 45 years ago. All while I was a kid I had pellet rifles and I would shoot cards in half in the basement. I�d shoot every night. On the weekends I got to shoot my .22. When I was a teen I shot daily. Usually at muskrats in the pond or rabbits in the garden. Growing up in the country I had lots of time to wander in the woods with my rifle. In my 20�s I discovered military rifles, I have spent piles of money on 30.06 and .30 carbine ammo. Working 2nd shift at the shipyard I had all day to hang out at the rifle range in Lakeland Florida, Saddle Creek Park. Even today I live in the country and shoot my rifle daily in my back yard, mostly an old pump action Rossi .22 but from time to time I break out an AK or my CETME just to stay in tune. I learned the wrong way, self-taught and lots of ammo. I recommend you get some formal training. I have heard good things about both Thunder Ranch and Gun Site. My pistol shooting just came about in the last 15 years or so. I could never hit anything with a pistol till I learned I was left eye dominant. After I learned to compensate for this I began to be a decent pistol shot. Point and shoot was also self-taught. I read about treating the barrel of your pistol as if it was your index finger. I started practicing, I bought a German made .22 revolver and started blasting away. After a few weeks it came naturally. Now days I shoot a Ruger 22/45 at least once a week and my carry piece, Model 38 S&W at least monthly. The secret is Practice Practice Practice.

SilverSalmon | 06-05-2008 01:19 AM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 1132472) Dang, I�ve never been asked that question. I got my first rifle when I was 7 or 8 years old, its still at my fathers house. A lever action Marlin .22. That was 45 years ago. All while I was a kid I had pellet rifles and I would shoot cards in half in the basement. I�d shoot every night. On the weekends I got to shoot my .22. When I was a teen I shot daily. Usually at muskrats in the pond or rabbits in the garden. Growing up in the country I had lots of time to wander in the woods with my rifle. In my 20�s I discovered military rifles, I have spent piles of money on 30.06 and .30 carbine ammo. Working 2nd shift at the shipyard I had all day to hang out at the rifle range in Lakeland Florida, Saddle Creek Park. Even today I live in the country and shoot my rifle daily in my back yard, mostly an old pump action Rossi .22 but from time to time I break out an AK or my CETME just to stay in tune. I learned the wrong way, self-taught and lots of ammo. I recommend you get some formal training. I have heard good things about both Thunder Ranch and Gun Site. My pistol shooting just came about in the last 15 years or so. I could never hit anything with a pistol till I learned I was left eye dominant. After I learned to compensate for this I began to be a decent pistol shot. Point and shoot was also self-taught. I read about treating the barrel of your pistol as if it was your index finger. I started practicing, I bought a German made .22 revolver and started blasting away. After a few weeks it came naturally. Now days I shoot a Ruger 22/45 at least once a week and my carry piece, Model 38 S&W at least monthly. The secret is Practice Practice Practice.
Thanks, my hero, I envy all that time you have to wonder in the country and shoot, all of us should be so lucky. I'll get to the range at least once a week. More when time permits, not a lot of ranges in my neck of the woods.

Onboard | 06-05-2008 03:06 AM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement Check out Fred. Get the Guide to Becoming a Rifleman. http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/catalog/acc.asp Freds Rifleman 25-Meter Targets w/Freds Guide to Becoming a Rifleman - Find out whether you are a rifleman - or a cook. Shoot this Army course through at 25 meters (82 ft) to determine your current shooting skill. [Click on the RIFLEMAN button, then on BECOMING A RIFLEMAN for a description of the AQT course of fire.] Then read the Guide to Becoming a Rifleman to improve until you can shoot Rifleman scores. Use the time to get ready now - while you have the time! Fred will tell all about the following. Sight Alignment: Aligning the front and rear sights. Sight Picture: Bringing the aligned sights onto your target. Respiratory Pause: Your natural breathing raises and lowers your rifle. When you achieve a perfect Sight Picture while exhaling, hold your breath to remain on target. Focus Focus your Eyes on the Front Sight: Just like in most handgun training you�ve likely encountered, your whole world is that front sight. Focus your Mind on the Target: While your eyes are focused on the front sight, you must focus your mind on keeping the front sight on your target. Trigger Pull: Notice that the phrase isn�t �Trigger Jerk�. (Another important point that gives me fits is to make sure that the rest of your trigger finger does not touch the stock while on the trigger.) Follow Through: There are two important facets to Following Through. First, you want to take a mental snapshot of where your sights were when the shot was fired so that you can have instant feedback and can call your shot to know where it impacted the target. Second, you want to hold the trigger back for a moment and then release it slowly to prepare for the next shot. You may have heard this described as �trigger reset�.

mtnman | 06-05-2008 11:31 AM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement Quote:
Originally Posted by Onboard (Post 1132750) Check out Fred. Get the Guide to Becoming a Rifleman. http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/catalog/acc.asp Freds Rifleman 25-Meter Targets w/Freds Guide to Becoming a Rifleman - Find out whether you are a rifleman - or a cook. Shoot this Army course through at 25 meters (82 ft) to determine your current shooting skill. [Click on the RIFLEMAN button, then on BECOMING A RIFLEMAN for a description of the AQT course of fire.] Then read the Guide to Becoming a Rifleman to improve until you can shoot Rifleman scores. Use the time to get ready now - while you have the time! Fred will tell all about the following. Sight Alignment: Aligning the front and rear sights. Sight Picture: Bringing the aligned sights onto your target. Respiratory Pause: Your natural breathing raises and lowers your rifle. When you achieve a perfect Sight Picture while exhaling, hold your breath to remain on target. Focus Focus your Eyes on the Front Sight: Just like in most handgun training you�ve likely encountered, your whole world is that front sight. Focus your Mind on the Target: While your eyes are focused on the front sight, you must focus your mind on keeping the front sight on your target. Trigger Pull: Notice that the phrase isn�t �Trigger Jerk�. (Another important point that gives me fits is to make sure that the rest of your trigger finger does not touch the stock while on the trigger.) Follow Through: There are two important facets to Following Through. First, you want to take a mental snapshot of where your sights were when the shot was fired so that you can have instant feedback and can call your shot to know where it impacted the target. Second, you want to hold the trigger back for a moment and then release it slowly to prepare for the next shot. You may have heard this described as �trigger reset�.
Very good information here. Fred also offers schooling.

madfranks | 06-07-2008 07:11 PM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 1132472) I could never hit anything with a pistol till I learned I was left eye dominant. After I learned to compensate for this I began to be a decent pistol shot.
Me too! I'm right handed so I assumed I would be right-eye dominant, but after some one-on-one training with an instructor, he told me that I was shooting like I was using the wrong eye, so I began using my left eye, and what do you know! Way better.

____hoot____ | 06-07-2008 07:37 PM
Re: mtnman and Shooting Placement My first job at 7 was critter control in my grandfather's cherry orchard. Daisy Model 25 BB pump gun, pay 5 cents a bird. Damn, and it was so long ago that I was being paid in large cents, buffalos, real silver WAAAAAAH! Why didn't I stash some away??? By 10 I was bored with regular practice and devised at shooting game where i would shoot at targets while rolling down a 100' tall heavily wooded 60 degree slope hill. Would get a nice dizzy "buzz" too, if I didn't smack into any trees. Best practice of all is rat's at a dump. Will teach you how to slap a trigger and hit what you are aimming at as they are never still long enough for you to do any of that silly squeeeeeezing stuff.

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