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- - What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=454109)

branshew | 03-08-2010 09:49 AM
What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... What 9mms can re-strike a primer with another trigger pull (without racking the slide and re-chambering another round) if the initial contact didn't go bang? I know that Taurus has a few new offerings with this capability, but I would prefer to stay away from them based on previous track record. I believe the H&K P2000 series has this feature. Any others?

TechGuy | 03-08-2010 10:19 AM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... Quote:
Originally Posted by branshew (Post 2216267) What 9mms can re-strike a primer with another trigger pull (without racking the slide and re-chambering another round) if the initial contact didn't go bang? I know that Taurus has a few new offerings with this capability, but I would prefer to stay away from them based on previous track record. I believe the H&K P2000 series has this feature. Any others?
Wouldn't any DAO fit this description?

desertjack | 03-08-2010 10:52 AM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... Any double action.

Raven | 03-08-2010 11:04 AM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... any one with an external hammer

SilverCity | 03-08-2010 11:26 AM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... CZ, Browning BDM, Beretta 92 and PX4, Sig Sauer, to name a few.

branshew | 03-08-2010 11:54 AM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 2216297) Wouldn't any DAO fit this description?
I was thinking that too, but some manufacturers like Glock use the term DAO to describe their mechanism when it's really not an accurate description. It is a feature that I am interested in for my 1st semi-auto purchase. (Unless of course you all tell me it is overrated, but coming from a revolver it would be a plus in my book).

SilverCity | 03-08-2010 12:23 PM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... Quote:
Originally Posted by branshew (Post 2216446) I was thinking that too, but some manufacturers like Glock use the term DAO to describe their mechanism when it's really not an accurate description. It is a feature that I am interested in for my 1st semi-auto purchase. (Unless of course you all tell me it is overrated, but coming from a revolver it would be a plus in my book).
IMO, second strike capability is a selling point for some autos, but not really necessary with quality defensive ammo in quality modern pistols. I does pay to practice jam-clearing drills (tap-rack-bang) with any pistol.

Haltiat | 03-08-2010 07:32 PM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... In all honesty a second strike isn't that important. If you shoot at least halfway decent ammo you are much more likely to run into a failure to eject than a failure to fire. The same procedure that will fix a failure to eject will also fix a failure to fire. Why not simplify?

Heimdhal | 03-08-2010 07:39 PM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... most any DAO or DA/SA with external mechanisms will do it. my Bersa .45 UC will allow a second, double action, strike without re-racking the slide. They make a 9mm version of the UC and full size version as well. In fact all of their pistols will be able to do this. the Sig p226 (in fact nearly all sigs, IIRC) also has this same feature as it is a DA/SA but as others have stated, you best bet is to get good quality SD ammo, which will rarley have a fail-to-fire and practice the living hell out of clearence drills, as a Fail-to-Eject or -Feed is far more likley than a fail to fire on quality ammo, and both of those generaly are caused by a weak grip (thus a weak platform for recoil) rather than the ammo itself.

Willie Peter | 03-08-2010 08:03 PM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... My Sig p226 will

tulsamal | 03-09-2010 11:09 AM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... It's true that a failure to fire should immediately trigger your training to do immediate action. Clear the dud and get a fresh one chambered. But it is also true that a "click no bang" will result in most people instinctively pulling the trigger a second time. In my own training, I make that part of immediate action. Doesn't really cost me any time because I do the second trigger pull as my left hand is coming up to grab the slide. So IMO, a second strike capability is worthwhile. I wouldn't totally eliminate a pistol design because it doesn't have it but I will consider such a lack "one strike." I do like Glocks and own several. But that doesn't mean I can't see how the design would be even better if that feature was somehow present. My carry 9mm has second strike capability even though it doesn't have an external hammer. But you probably aren't going to walk into a gunshop and find an HK P7M8 for sale either! Gregg

ONG | 03-09-2010 03:33 PM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... I have shot Tens of thousands of commercial ammo and only had one .45 acp that would not go bang. It went pop. Pulled the bullet apart later, a WWB and there was no powder in the cartridge. My wife however was shooting some cheap 9mm ammo at a class. Her cheap husband (me) had mistakenly purchased a case of surplus machine gun ammo. Extra hard primers. One in 10 would not fire no matter how many times she ran it through her S&W M&P. The point is that while a secondary strike with a simple trigger pull would certainly be nice, at no time in our training experience would it have helped. Of course your milage may vary. As a cautionary note folks, please get away from training your immediate action drills as Tap, Rack, Bang. It's Tap, Rack, Assess. It could happen that the BG will be so impressed with your gun clearing skills that he drops his gun, raises his hands and gives up. Or runs away. Or your daughter walks in between him and you. Tap, Rack, Bang and you could be putting holes somewhere you don't want them.

SilverCity | 03-09-2010 03:43 PM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... Assess in the middle of a gunfight? If you have time and are behind good cover. Second strike? What if the second or third pull of the trigger fails to fire? You have wasted precious seconds. TAP--to ensure mag is seated, round clears mag and chambers, and slide is in full battery. If you are successful, skip the RACK step and go directly to the BANG step. RACK--with flip of wrist to the right and shake as necessary to clear dead or jammed round, and chamber fresh round BANG--aim in the direction of the threat and fire. You will be assessing through the steps as best you can, probably while messing your pants. Good luck...

ONG | 03-09-2010 03:51 PM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 2218428) Reassess in the middle of a gunfight? If you have time and are behind good cover. Second strike? What if the second or third pull of the trigger fails to fire? You have wasted precious seconds. TAP--to ensure mag is seated and slide is in full battery RACK--with flip of wrist to right to clear dead or jammed round BANG--aim and point in the direction of the threat. Good luck...
You plan to do a immediate action drill and not be behind cover? Or moving?

SilverCity | 03-09-2010 04:20 PM
Re: What 9mm semi-autos feature the capability to... Whatever the situation calls for...stand and fight, run, drop, roll, get behind cover, whatever. Remember you will experience tunnel vision and a serious loss of fine motor skills. The tap, rack, bang is just a procedure to clear a jam and help you get back in the fight. Many folks can't even sense their pistol just malfunctioned (squib, feed fail, stove-pipe) until it won't go bang. Situational awareness when in a desperate fight for one's life is difficult at best, and actions must become instinctive through practice. Learn to recognize what a malfunction "feels" like and how to respond appropriately. SC

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