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- - 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=368519)

Julian | 04-18-2009 04:49 PM
5.56x45 or 7.62x39 OK, I'm trying to decide what caliber rifle I should get my wife... she's 5'3" and 110#, so she's fairly petite. She's pretty strong considering her size and weight, but she's still small. Anyway, I want to get a self defense/homestead defense type rifle, the type that could hit and incapicate a target at 300-400 yards(hell, it's 200 yds just to our back fence). I want a rifle that is not too heavy, where the ammo is light enough that she can carry plenty of it(at least 150-200 rds in magazines), and has moderate recoil. Either way, she's getting a Saiga, because that's what we can afford. Unfortunately, the weight and recoil would seem to rule out a .308, otherwise that's what she'd be getting. I'm really torn between the 5.56 and 7.62x39... the 5.56 would seem to have better range(and possibly better accuracy), but the 7.62 has more kinetic energy and "take down" at further ranges. I know that 7.62x39 vs 5.56x45 has been hashed out over and over, but I just wonder if someone might have some input regarding round choice for a small-ish woman.

gangsta99 | 04-18-2009 05:22 PM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 Get her something in 5.45 x 39. Like an AK-74. Ammo is around $150 for 1080 rds and it would fit into the mix well.

Julian | 04-18-2009 05:49 PM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 That may be the case right now, but a couple months ago 5.45x39 was very hard to find. I'm not going to make the decision based on short term ammo market fluctuations. Also, an AK chambered in 5.45 will run almost 2x as much as a Saiga, rendering the ammo cost a moot point.

CrufflerJJ | 04-18-2009 06:02 PM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian (Post 1683919) OK, I'm trying to decide what caliber rifle I should get my wife... she's 5'3" and 110#, so she's fairly petite. She's pretty strong considering her size and weight, but she's still small. Anyway, I want to get a self defense/homestead defense type rifle, the type that could hit and incapicate a target at 300-400 yards(hell, it's 200 yds just to our back fence). I want a rifle that is not too heavy, where the ammo is light enough that she can carry plenty of it(at least 150-200 rds in magazines), and has moderate recoil. Either way, she's getting a Saiga, because that's what we can afford. Unfortunately, the weight and recoil would seem to rule out a .308, otherwise that's what she'd be getting. I'm really torn between the 5.56 and 7.62x39... the 5.56 would seem to have better range(and possibly better accuracy), but the 7.62 has more kinetic energy and "take down" at further ranges. I know that 7.62x39 vs 5.56x45 has been hashed out over and over, but I just wonder if someone might have some input regarding round choice for a small-ish woman.
Sounds like you want a good bit out of the rifle & ammo. Nothing wrong with that, but it makes the final choice even harder. If you need to be able to make good hits on a target at 300-400 yards, I'd be inclined to skip the 7.62x39. My sole reason behind this would be accuracy. Unless you get a VERY accurate 7.62x39 rifle, getting consistent hits at that range may be difficult. With 5.56x45, at 300-400 yards, you'd also need to be using good ammo in your rifle to make solid (effective) hits. Fragmentation with most ball ammo is a GOOD thing with this caliber. A non-fragmenting bullet doesn't tend to wound as well (now THERE's a thought - "wound as well"!). With a full length barrel (~20"), the bullet will apparently drop below the velocity required to fragment at 150-200 yards. I'd still not want to be hit by a bullet at 250-400 yards, but it may not have the effects you want (incapacitation). This might drive you into a very expensive round, with proven incapacitation even at long ranges. A decent fragmenting heavy hollowpoint like the MK262 (or Black Hills boat tail hollowpoint loads) would be nice, or a soft point bullet might work better at 300-400 yards than the standard M193 or M855/SS109 ball. Long term availability of reloading components probably favors the 5.56x45 also. Might be something else to consider.... For a bunch of reading on the 5.56x45 round, see http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-...cle_Mirror.htm

SilverCity | 04-18-2009 06:37 PM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 The Saiga is not a bad choice. Get the .223 with 21 inch barrel. It will stabilize the 75gr HP well out to the 200+ yard range. I wouldn't push it much further than that. Wolf or Prvi Partizan should be the most affordable ammo.

meatman | 04-18-2009 06:40 PM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 although very expensive 7.62 is made in the USA no one makes 5.45 in the states so if there is a import ban your screwed now that being said I had a AK74 best rifle I have ever owned excellent caliber (5.45) very little recoil compared to the 7.62. kick myself for selling it buy a AK74 then just start buying as much ammo as you can that barrel is only going to last 15,000 rounds your looking at about $2600 in ammo(surplus- a little more for non corrosive) for the life of the rifle

gangsta99 | 04-18-2009 06:53 PM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 If I didn't upgrade my AR-15 today I probably would have tried to get an AK-74 instead. The amount of 5.45 available for cheap right now is hard to pass up though. You can stack 5k rounds for $750 and get the firearm for another $600ish. That is what I would do. I own a Saiga 12 and can say Saiga makes nice firearms. Just remember if you go with a Saiga you will be paying more in the long term for mags. That is unless you get the 7.62 version and are willing to do a little mod work to get it to take AK mags. Lots of info online to do this. Just remember you might run into 922r issues.

Elvis | 04-18-2009 07:00 PM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 Many an American soldier were killed by small-framed people shooting 7.62. Practice helps.

CrufflerJJ | 04-18-2009 07:08 PM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis (Post 1684012) Many an American soldier were killed by small-framed people shooting 7.62. Practice helps.
Speaking of which, here's a picture of a ?Vietnamese? female carrying a T53 Mosin Nagant (Chinese version of the MN44). It's a perfect example of a "small-framed" person, firing a full power .30 cal (7.62x54R) load in a carbine sized weapon.

Irons | 04-18-2009 08:39 PM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 Save your money for a little longer and get a good AR-15 for your wife. I'm married, and women love AR-15's and hit/kill things with them. All I can come up with is #1 they look nasty #2 they shoot like a kittycat #3 they hit what they aim at Whatever it is with AR-15's, women are very comfortable and confident with them as soon as they shoot one. I've seen this over and over again for years and no longer wonder about it. :smokin:

Maddie | 04-18-2009 08:55 PM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 +1 on the AR. You can get lightweight ones that apparently are designed for smaller people. Anyone know how an M1A Socom performs at those distances? You might also try checking out hunting magazines to see what the women are shooting with.

St. Germain | 04-18-2009 09:05 PM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 1684119) +1 on the AR. You can get lightweight ones that apparently are designed for smaller people. Anyone know how an M1A Socom performs at those distances? You might also try checking out hunting magazines to see what the women are shooting with.
+2. I believe the AR is the tool for the job. ST

CQC McDuck | 04-18-2009 09:16 PM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 An AR-15 carbine in 5.56 would probably be the best option. A Saiga 7.62x39 would probably be a bit much for her.

Usury | 04-20-2009 12:24 AM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 What about an M-1 Carbine?

leadfoot | 04-20-2009 02:50 AM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 I've seen pictures of half-starved African kids fielding AK-47''s. And like that Vietnamese gal shown above, it's probably a case of not having many choices. They're handed what's available and told "this is your gun - use it." And of course not knowing any different, they do. We as wimpy Americans do have choices so we might as well make the best of those. If you're stuck on Saiga's I'd reccomend the 5.56. Magnolia arms has a mag adapter so that you can use AR mags. Then if you ever acquire an AR/M4 you can use your stock of mags and ammo for both guns. This is the route I've taken for this caliber. Note that this is not my primary caliber.

gangsta99 | 04-20-2009 03:01 AM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot (Post 1685604) I've seen pictures of half-starved African kids fielding AK-47''s. And like that Vietnamese gal shown above, it's probably a case of not having many choices. They're handed what's available and told "this is your gun - use it." And of course not knowing any different, they do. We as wimpy Americans do have choices so we might as well make the best of those. If you're stuck on Saiga's I'd reccomend the 5.56. Magnolia arms has a mag adapter so that you can use AR mags. Then if you ever acquire an AR/M4 you can use your stock of mags and ammo for both guns. This is the route I've taken for this caliber. Note that this is not my primary caliber.
Don't you have to use the AR mag adapter on every mag though? It isn't an adapter that goes on the Saiga itself. So you either pay for multiple adapters, or have to take it off and put it on every AR mag you want to feed through the rifle.

leadfoot | 04-20-2009 04:09 AM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 Quote:
Originally Posted by gangsta99 (Post 1685610) Don't you have to use the AR mag adapter on every mag though? It isn't an adapter that goes on the Saiga itself. So you either pay for multiple adapters, or have to take it off and put it on every AR mag you want to feed through the rifle.
No. But it is. You could do it that way but that's not how it's intended to work.

CrufflerJJ | 04-20-2009 07:35 AM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 Quote:
Originally Posted by Usury (Post 1685524) What about an M-1 Carbine?
Nope - not at 300-400 yards. Maybe 50-100 yards (with soft nose or hollow point bullets), but not for the longer range.

eat_beef | 04-20-2009 08:59 AM
Re: 5.56x45 or 7.62x39 Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 1684119) +1 on the AR. You can get lightweight ones that apparently are designed for smaller people. Anyone know how an M1A Socom performs at those distances? You might also try checking out hunting magazines to see what the women are shooting with.
The SOCOM is good to go out to 400+ yards, further with optics. That said, I doubt if a small woman is going to like it, it's heavy and kicks a little even with the muzzle break. The break is also a problem, it makes you choose between grab and go/end up with a ringing ear and splitting headache, or be forced to put on ear protection before every shot. I'd say M1 carbine, as I think 3-400 yards is unrealistic for a Saiga anyway, especially w/o optics and if she doesn't train A LOT.

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