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- - Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=313430)

Ebie | 10-16-2008 04:08 PM
Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Is there a permit for open carry?

gbgunner | 10-16-2008 04:10 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? It's gonna depend on where you live and where you want to go.

Ebie | 10-16-2008 04:22 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? California. Oddly the NRA website says no permit required for open carry. That can't be true???

Drumblebum | 10-16-2008 04:40 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? You don't need a permit. They just shoot you if they see a gun, and then make up whatever story they need to to justify your murder.:RockOn:

AKBill | 10-16-2008 04:48 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? alaska no permit needed either way

Cassius | 10-16-2008 05:03 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Every state is different. In Florida there is a permit to carry concealed but open carry is illegal with or without a permit. There are also reciprocity laws in many states that honor certain other states' permits but those too vary.

Fullpower | 10-16-2008 05:20 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Cassius are you able to reference the state statute that you claim prohibits open carry of any firearm in the state of Florida?

Portmanteau | 10-16-2008 05:28 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? My understanding is that it is technically legal to open carry in California...unloaded. Technically legal and effectively legal (i.e., when the cops won't stop you at every turn) are two very different things. If your county is less than 200,000, and you have a CCW, then you can open carry loaded.

Cassius | 10-16-2008 06:05 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...20053#0790.053 Quote:
Florida Statute 790.053 Open carrying of weapons.-- (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. (2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense: (a) A self-defense chemical spray. (b) A nonlethal stun gun or remote stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device which does not fire a dart or projectile and is designed solely for defensive purposes. (3) Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

Tn...Andy | 10-16-2008 06:29 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassius (Post 1362899) Every state is different. In Florida there is a permit to carry concealed but open carry is illegal with or without a permit. There are also reciprocity laws in many states that honor certain other states' permits but those too vary.
That's the answer.....and even localities within States vary.

rhoggman | 10-16-2008 07:01 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? In Virginia we can open carry locked cocked and ready to rock, but I never see anyone doing this unless I am in a gun shop, or at the range. I holster my SA XD 40 S&W when I walk my dog at night, but I am just waiting for a cop to ask questions. So far I don't think a cop has seen me packin. I did go to a gun show last weekend where there were Virginia Beach cops, and they did not seem to mind; however, I am very reluctant to enter many private businesses with a weapon showing considering it is illegal to carry when signs are posted banning weapons. I have never seen one of these signs, but missing one could make me a criminal. I kind of figure that because you do not see people carrying in public, reactions could very. For instance someone could freak out because you have a gun, call the powleece, and you happened to miss the micro print on the door. My girlfriend has lived in Virginia all her life, and she was stunned to find out that you could actually walk down the street with a fully loaded weapon holstered. Same with her mother and father. They looked at me like I was nutz when I told them the law. IMO the objective of the anti-gun people is to scare everyone, or make guns scary and weird. The next thing you know everyone hates guns and they get taken away. I fully expect this to happen in my lifetime.

Ebie | 10-16-2008 07:07 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Quote:
Originally Posted by Portmanteau (Post 1362967) My understanding is that it is technically legal to open carry in California...unloaded. Technically legal and effectively legal (i.e., when the cops won't stop you at every turn) are two very different things. .
With all due respect to the police, I suspect that an obvious question for him to ask would be: "Do you have a permit for that?" It is a logical question, he might be thinking of CCW... The thing is, no state seems have a permit for open carry... Be well.

latitude22 | 10-16-2008 07:10 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? I don't know why you would want to open carry, you trying to be the first guy shot when something goes down? Not to mention it only takes one person to feel "threatened" by your weapon and they will be able to easily describe it and claim you pointed it at them. Who do you think they will believe?

Ebie | 10-16-2008 07:16 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Quote:
Originally Posted by latitude22 (Post 1363177) I don't know why you would want to open carry, you trying to be the first guy shot when something goes down? Not to mention it only takes one person to feel "threatened" by your weapon and they will be able to easily describe it and claim you pointed it at them. Who do you think they will believe?
In California it is illegal to have a gun on your own porch or driveway as far as I know. You can't carry concealed or have open carry, between your car and the front door--I was told. I don't know about the enclosed back yard.

Merlin | 10-16-2008 07:39 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? The State of Indiana requires a License to Carry (I have one), but makes no distinction between concealed or open carry. Naturally, there are places where it is illegal to carry a weapon -- like school property, the county courthouse, the local police station, etc.

Tn...Andy | 10-16-2008 07:43 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebie (Post 1363167) The thing is, no state seems have a permit for open carry...
You'd have to be pretty well educated to know all the laws of the 50 States....and apparently are not. Tennessee, for example, requires a permit to "carry"....and doesn't specify open or concealed......a point even some police officers don't know, they think it REQUIRES concealed, but it doesn't. ( Guy in Knoxville got into it with cop leaving a store with his "showing"....cop was just SURE it had to be concealed, but it does not.... ).....the laws says if you carry "with the intent to go armed", permit needed. If you carry as you are going to sell the gun, going to a range, going to a hunt, going to a gunsmith, whatever, no permit required.....that is carry "without the intent to go armed". What you should do is learn the laws of YOUR State ( or any State you plan to carry in ) instead of "somebody told me".... rhoggman: Virginia actually seems to be going more PRO gun rights......you have always been able to open carry in Va with no permit, but many of the local cities enacted ordinances against it. The State legislature swept ALL of the local ordinances away with a new State law that says no local can enact such ordinances.

Toxa | 10-16-2008 07:45 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? In Kentucky you don't need a permit for open carry. Heck you can walk around with a shotgun behind your back. I love Kentucky.

tanner12oz | 10-16-2008 07:47 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? pa is an open carry state....no permits required to open carry...youd better know the law though and carry proof of the law cuz youll get shit from all the clueless keystone cops.

Ebie | 10-16-2008 09:02 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Quote:
Originally Posted by tanner12oz (Post 1363242) pa is an open carry state....no permits required to open carry...youd better know the law though and carry proof of the law
Can you carry a hand gun "openly" on your auto front seat? Can you have a loaded shotgun in a lock? Be well.

Brent H | 10-16-2008 09:22 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? See http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html to see what your state laws are.

Brent H | 10-16-2008 09:23 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=371028 The Open Carry Argument My primary goal when I�m out and about (besides whatever I went out and about to do) is to go about peaceably and not be the victim of a violent crime. To that end I carry a firearm whenever I go out as well as follow all the other standard safety practices like maintaining situational awareness, staying out of high crime areas, and avoiding confrontation. I also have a larger overall goal of making it through my life without shooting anyone. Simply put, I don�t want to be responsible, legally or morally, for another�s death. Those two goals might appear at first blush to be mutually exclusive, and with concealed carry it would be a difficult set of goals to realize. Carrying a concealed firearm presents to a criminal that I am unarmed. Every study I�ve ever read, not most but every study, says that criminals will avoid an armed person or home when selecting a victim. That only makes sense, right? Robbers, rapists, or carjackers might be dumb and opportunistic, but they have the same instinctual sense of self preservation we all have. Hyenas don�t attack lions to steal the gazelle the lions have just killed. It�s all about risk management; are the potential gains (a tasty gazelle dinner) worth the potential pain and damage the lion�s teeth will cause, and does the hyena really need to test the lion to figure out the answer? No, the hyena can see the lion�s teeth and knows to stay well clear. Deterrent Value: When I�m carrying concealed I feel like my �teeth� are hidden, and thus of no real deterrent value. If I appear unarmed then I am unarmed in the eyes of the robber, I appear as easy a target as almost anyone else out on the street. My probability of being a victim of a crime, violent or otherwise, is completely unchanged by the fact that I have hidden beneath my shirt the means to defend myself. My goal, however, is not to be a victim in the first place, remember? I don�t want to be a victim that fought back successfully and triumphed; I prefer to not be victimized at all. Concealed carry is good; it throws a wrench in the works for criminals who might see the teaming masses as a smorgasbord of financial gain. This deterrent effect is, nonetheless, indirect. At some point the thug will weigh the risks vs. the gains; is his current desperation for money/drugs/booze/gold grille greater than the gamble that one of those people might be carrying a gun? If he decides to play the odds, which helped along with surprise tip the scale in his favor, he will attack. Will his attack allow enough time for me to draw my concealed firearm to affect a defense? Maybe, but then again, maybe not. Remember, I don�t want to be a victim and I don�t want to shoot anyone. So how do I realize both goals; or how do I make them inclusive? I can do that through open carry. By making it clear and obvious that I am armed, that I have teeth, I tip the risk scale to the point that the criminal�s gains are far outweighed by the risk. There is no ambiguity when the thug is doing his risk assessment, there�s something right there in plain sight that can quickly and painfully change or terminate his life. You may not think his life has much value, but as I mentioned before, he has the same sense of self preservation as any other living creature and to him it�s every bit as valuable as yours is to you. It would be foolish to ignore this indisputable fact when you develop your overall tactical strategy. First One To Be Shot: There are some who criticize open carry and claim it will make you more of a target or �the first one shot� when a robber walks into the 7-11, despite the absolute lack of credible evidence that this has ever happened. If the robber walks in and sees that you�re armed, his whole plan has encountered an unexpected variable. In bank robberies where he might expect to see an armed guard he will have already factored that possibility into his plan, but only for the armed guard, not for open or concealed carry citizens. No robber robs a bank without at least a rudimentary plan. Nevertheless, being present for a bank robbery is an extremely remote possibility for most of us regardless of our preferred method of handgun carry. Back in the 7-11, if he sees someone is armed he is forced to either significantly alter the plan or abort it outright. Robbing is an inherently apprehensive occupation, and one that doesn�t respond well to instant modifications. He is not prepared to commit murder when he only planned for larceny. He knows that a petty robbery will not garner the intense police manhunt a murder would. He doesn�t know if you�re an armed citizen or a police officer and isn�t going to take the time to figure it out. Either way, if someone in the 7-11 is unexpectedly armed, how many others might be similarly adorned and where might they be? Does this armed individual have a partner who is likewise armed behind him in the parking lot, someone who is watching right now? Self preservation compels him to abort the plan for one that is less risky. So we see that the logic matches the history; open carriers are not the first ones shot because it doesn�t make any sense that they would be. Surprise: Probably the most common condemnation of open carry comes from the armchair tacticians who believe it�s better to have the element of surprise in a criminal encounter. Although this was touched on in the previous paragraph about deterrence, I�ll expand on it specifically here because there are some important truths you need to consider before you lean too heavily on this false support. Surprise as a defensive tactic is based on unrealistic or ill-thought out scenarios. The circumstance where several street toughs surround and taunt you for a while like in some Charles Bronson movie is not realistic; the mugger wants to get in and out as fast as possible. In most cases you will have only seconds to realize what�s happening, make a decision, and react. Imagine you�re walking along the sidewalk when two gangsta looking teenagers suddenly appear at the corner coming in the opposite direction. You have only seconds to react if their intent was to victimize you. Do you draw your concealed firearm now or wait until there�s an actual visible threat? If they are just on their way to church and you pull a gun on them, you are the criminal and you may forever lose your firearms rights for such a foolish action. If you don�t draw and they pull a knife or pistol when they�re just a couple steps away, your only options are draw (if you think you can) or comply. Imagine staring at the shiny blade of a knife being held by a very nervous and violent mugger, three inches from your or your wife�s throat and having to decide whether or not you have time to draw from concealment. The element of surprise may not do you any good; in fact the only surprising thing that might happen is that your concealed carry pistol gets taken along with your wallet. The thug will later get a good chuckle with his buddies about how you brought a gun to a knife fight. The simple truth is that while surprise is a monumentally superior tactical maneuver, it is exclusively an offensive action, not a defensive one. I am not aware of any army that teaches using surprise as a defense against attack. No squad of soldiers goes on patrol with their weapons hidden so that they can �surprise� the enemy should they walk into an ambush. It Will Get Stolen: Another common criticism of open carry is that the firearm itself will be the target of theft, prompting as criminal to attack simply to get the gun from you. Like the previous example of being the first one shot in a robbery, above, this is despite the fact that there is no credible evidence it happens. It also blindly ignores the more obvious fact that anything you possess can make you the target of a crime, be it a car, a watch, or even a female companion (girlfriend, wife, or daughter). Crooks commonly steal for only two reasons; to get something you have that they want, or to get something that you have so they can sell it and buy something they want. There are no Robins in the hood trying to help the poor by stealing from the rich. I don�t claim it could never happen; just that it�s so remote a possibility that it doesn�t warrant drastic alterations to your self defense strategies. If you believe otherwise, leave your watch, sunglasses, jewelry, and cell phone at home, hop into your Pinto wagon, and head out to do your thing. It Scares People: One other statement against open carry I hear is that it damages public perception of firearms owners, or that by carrying openly we are not being good ambassadors to the public. While there are some people who have a genuine fear of firearms, due either to some horrible past experience or anti-gun indoctrination, the majority of people are either indifferent to them or quite fascinated by them. I�ve never kept track of the dozens of fellow citizens I�ve encountered who have marveled at the idea of open carry, but I do know exactly how many have expressed displeasure at it; one. People are scared of many things for many reasons; however, pretending those things do not exist only perpetuates the fear. Someone who is disturbed by open carry is going to be every bit as disturbed by concealed carry. The only effective way to overcome a fear is to come to the intellectual realization that the phobia is based on emotion and not on fact. By being a firsthand witness that a firearm was carried responsibly and peaceably, and wasn�t being carried in the commission of a crime, one discovers their fear is not fact based, but emotional. Thus, open carry can be a very effectual way of helping to overcome the emotionally based fear of the firearm. After all, you�d be much more likely to believe in ghosts if you saw one rather than if you listened to a ghost story around a campfire. We give much more credibility to the things we experience than we do to the things we hear. The bottom line is that this argument is made by people who don�t or haven�t carried openly; those of us who do so on a regular basis have an entirely different experience. I�m Not Comfortable Carrying Openly: This is really the only reasonable argument against open carry for an individual. We all have a comfort zone for any aspect of our lives and we prefer to stay within that comfort zone. We all agree that it�s better to be armed and never need the firearm than it is to need it and not have it. There is a point where concealing your firearm becomes so problematic, due to conditions like temperature or comfort, that some choose to either leave it behind or carry in such a way that it would be difficult or impossible to draw it quickly. If it takes me five or six seconds to draw my firearm from deep concealment and I had sufficient time before hand to do so, I would prefer to use that five or six seconds to avoid the entire encounter. I�m glad we have concealed carry laws in most of the states; it empowers and protects not only us but the general public through the offset deterrent effect. Some of us, however, choose the more direct deterrent effect of open carry. The combination of the two makes the criminal�s job that much more risky, that much more dangerous, and that much more uncertain.

Portmanteau | 10-16-2008 09:58 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebie (Post 1363167) With all due respect to the police...
Which is zero. Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebie (Post 1363167) ...I suspect that an obvious question for him to ask would be: "Do you have a permit for that?"
"Yes, officer, I do!" [hands him a copy of the Second Amendment]

wallew | 10-16-2008 10:05 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Two of the 'A' states. Alaska Arizona HMMM, must be a conspiracy :111:

Saul Mine | 10-17-2008 03:22 AM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Your permit to carry is the second amendment to the US constitution and corresponding sections of each state constitution. But don't expect that to be respected in all cases. As the saying goes, "Don't argue with weather."

Worldmariner | 10-17-2008 07:35 AM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Quote:
Originally Posted by rhoggman (Post 1363154) I have never seen one of these signs, but missing one could make me a criminal. I kind of figure that because you do not see people carrying in public, reactions could very. For instance someone could freak out because you have a gun, call the powleece, and you happened to miss the micro print on the door. .
OR.... If you carry concealed, and do a good job of it, no one will ever know you went into a posted establishment. I am not giving you legal advice, just pointing out a common sense point...

NOOB | 10-17-2008 08:12 AM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Quote:
Originally Posted by rhoggman (Post 1363154) In Virginia we can open carry locked cocked and ready to rock, but I never see anyone doing this unless I am in a gun shop, or at the range. I holster my SA XD 40 S&W when I walk my dog at night, but I am just waiting for a cop to ask questions. So far I don't think a cop has seen me packin. I did go to a gun show last weekend where there were Virginia Beach cops, and they did not seem to mind; however, I am very reluctant to enter many private businesses with a weapon showing considering it is illegal to carry when signs are posted banning weapons. I have never seen one of these signs, but missing one could make me a criminal. I kind of figure that because you do not see people carrying in public, reactions could very. For instance someone could freak out because you have a gun, call the powleece, and you happened to miss the micro print on the door. My girlfriend has lived in Virginia all her life, and she was stunned to find out that you could actually walk down the street with a fully loaded weapon holstered. Same with her mother and father. They looked at me like I was nutz when I told them the law. IMO the objective of the anti-gun people is to scare everyone, or make guns scary and weird. The next thing you know everyone hates guns and they get taken away. I fully expect this to happen in my lifetime.
If the business put up the sign"No firearms" or some such wording you wouldn't be breaking any laws. Just because they don't like firearms doesn't make them the law. They could ask you to leave because it is private property. If you didn't leave then you would be trespassing. No firearms laws would be violated.

rhoggman | 10-17-2008 08:50 AM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Quote:
Originally Posted by NOOB (Post 1364235) If the business put up the sign"No firearms" or some such wording you wouldn't be breaking any laws. Just because they don't like firearms doesn't make them the law. They could ask you to leave because it is private property. If you didn't leave then you would be trespassing. No firearms laws would be violated.
There is actually a law in Virginia respecting the owners of private property that makes it illegal to carry a weapon onto private property where the owner has posted a sign prohibiting it. This really only applies to places of business and commerce as we know people are not usually in the habit of posting no firearm signs in their yards. You are right that in a normal circumstance you would probably be asked to leave the premesis and the problem would be resolved. However, it is actually a punishable crime (misdemeanor).

NOOB | 10-17-2008 10:26 AM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Quote:
Originally Posted by rhoggman (Post 1364282) There is actually a law in Virginia respecting the owners of private property that makes it illegal to carry a weapon onto private property where the owner has posted a sign prohibiting it. This really only applies to places of business and commerce as we know people are not usually in the habit of posting no firearm signs in their yards. You are right that in a normal circumstance you would probably be asked to leave the premesis and the problem would be resolved. However, it is actually a punishable crime (misdemeanor).
I wasn't aware of that law. Thanks for the info.Can you put up a sign for anybody you don't want to serve? No Colored's? No Hippies? No midgets?

Tn...Andy | 10-17-2008 11:55 AM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? rhoggman and noob: Same thing in Tennessee, and I suspect in other States....with a BUT: You may well find the law regarding posting of private property requires SPECIFIC language and size of the sign.....in Tennessee, a simple list of rules like our local mall has that includes "no weapons" or a red circle with a pic of a handgun and red slash across it, such ONE local bank posts, does NOT comply with the requirements of the law, and thus, you could not be charged with carrying on that property. If you open carry, you could be asked to leave, and charged with trespass if you did not......another reason for concealed carry. To comply with the law in Tennessee, the sign must be at all public entrances to the property, and contain this language "or substantially similar": PURSUANT TO � 39-17-1359, THE OWNER/OPERATOR OF THIS PROPERTY HAS BANNED WEAPONS ON THIS PROPERTY, OR WITHIN THIS BUILDING OR THIS PORTION OF THIS BUILDING. FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS PROHIBITION IS PUNISHABLE AS A CRIMINAL ACT UNDER STATE LAW AND MAY SUBJECT THE VIOLATOR TO A FINE OF NOT MORE THAN FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500).

Ebie | 10-17-2008 12:09 PM
Re: Is there a permit for open carry or only ccw? Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent H (Post 1363448) See http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html to see what your state laws are.
I looked it up for California: "Firearms may be openly carried in cars in unincorporated areas unless the county has made open carry illegal, or, pursuant to a CA open carry permit issued (and apparently valid only in) a county with a population of less than 200,000 persons." So, California has special open carry permits? Are these different from CCW? Who issues them? Never heard of that...

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