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- - M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=410255)

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 09-24-2009 01:09 PM
M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? I have some of both but am not sure what I have more of. I should probably stock up on some more 5.56, but if you could only get one type, which type would you purchase of these two, and why? Both types are available to me right now but I want to get 1K and they won't break the lots up. Both are made by Prvi Partizan of Srbija, which I really like. Thanks for any info/help... 7

JJ_ | 09-24-2009 01:21 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? I'd go w/ green tips for diplomacy - but if you're just stocking range rounds - M193 should be a bit cheaper. That Privi is good stuff for commie block loads.

negative1 | 09-24-2009 01:21 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? Kinda depends what you want it to do. Best bet is read up and decide what you want. Here's a link to about the best info out there on .556. CLICK I hope this helps. :s1:

gbgunner | 09-24-2009 01:24 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? I've got the M855 sighted in for my 20" rifle. The XM193 sighted in on my 16" carbine. Both 1/9 twist.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 09-24-2009 01:38 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? I'm looking for a photo posted here awhile back of a leg/knee wound caused by M193 where the tissue was all blown and ripped up. Can't find it, though...

JJ_ | 09-24-2009 01:43 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 1938059) I'm looking for a photo posted here awhile back of a leg/knee wound caused by M193 where the tissue was all blown and ripped up. Can't find it, though...
http://goldismoney.info/forums/showp...1&postcount=22 Hope you haven't had lunch yet:puke:

SilverCity | 09-24-2009 01:49 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? For AR-15s, I load XM193 in the 20-inch barrel, 1:12 twist and XM855 for the 16 inch barrel 1:9s (M4 Carbine). The 193 bullets for fragmentation, and 855s for penetration. Wideners did a pretty good test of the Prvi 855 stuff and found it performed very well...comparable to U.S. GI issue...in velocity, accuracy, shot-to-shot consistency.

Heimdhal | 09-24-2009 01:55 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 1938059) I'm looking for a photo posted here awhile back of a leg/knee wound caused by M193 where the tissue was all blown and ripped up. Can't find it, though...
its in the "Ak as a survival rifle" thread :ok:

Bx3 | 09-24-2009 02:00 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? I would get both. POA/POI in my rifle (before I sold it) is about the same inside of about 200m. M193 definitely has better effects against soft tissue as it will tumble easier. The tradeoff is that this easier tumbling also makes it less prone to barrier penetration than the M855. I load....I mean I used to load up every other round when I was tooling around out in the boondocks. If I could only have one round, it would be the M193. Surprisingly because of its lighter/faster properties, it has actually shown better armor penetration at close ranges (inside 100m) even against some level III plates. Bx3

Argentsum | 09-24-2009 02:02 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? I'd go with the 193 for fragmentation if you have a barrel that's 16" or longer. If you have a short barrel under 16" (I don't want to know how you got it) then the 193 won't fragment reliably so just as well to go with 855 for penetration. That said, the .223 (5.56mm) round really isn't that good a penetrator even if your using the 855. Its too light a bullet so deflection against hard things is more probable. If you want penetration your probably better off going with the .308 (7.62mm). Anyways, that's my angle.

Haltiat | 09-24-2009 03:09 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? M193 for the reasons Argentsum stated. You may as well maximize what the cartridge is good at.

Raymond | 09-24-2009 03:19 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? Hivemind, What is the rifling twist of your rifles? Are you shooting in a match, or is the ammo for "social purposes" <300 yards? Per the "Ammo Oracle" link above, this will drive your choice of ammo. I also like Prvi Partizan, both the 55-grain M193 (for my 1:12" and 1:9" rifles and carbines) and the 75-grain BTHP Match ammo (for my SPR-type rifle in 1:8" twist). Very reliable and accurate.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 09-24-2009 04:03 PM
Twist rate is..? Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1938240) Hivemind, What is the rifling twist of your rifles? Are you shooting in a match, or is the ammo for "social purposes" <300 yards? Per the "Ammo Oracle" link above, this will drive your choice of ammo. I also like Prvi Partizan, both the 55-grain M193 (for my 1:12" and 1:9" rifles and carbines) and the 75-grain BTHP Match ammo (for my SPR-type rifle in 1:8" twist). Very reliable and accurate.
I was just wondering that myself. The rifle is one of the new Arsenal AKs with the AK-74 pattern muzzle brake only chambered in 5.56. I think the model number is SLR-108FR or CR or something like that. I can't look up the specs here so I'll have to pull Arsenal's site up when I get home. I don't even have the rifle handy as it's out of state, stored in my bugout location. As for purpose of the ammo, it's for the "social purposes" you mentioned...

Bx3 | 09-24-2009 04:03 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1938249) I'm eating right now. :biggrin: In response to the OP's question, if you want to defeat home invaders (with or without badges) wearing body armor, M855 is the way to go. If the targets are unarmored, M193 is sufficient, and in some cases superior, since it seems to tumble more readily.
At CQB distances (home invasion distance) M193 has a better record of defeating certain armor plates. As taken from a reliable source: Quote:
This test provided a vivid reminder that speed rules when hitting steel. The 6 mm steel plate was shot 5 times with XM193--all 5 shots perforated the steel plate and soft armor backing. Conversely, all 5 shots of the slightly slower M855 were easily stopped by the steel plate, even with two shots closely approximated and one at the plate edge. Lemas ammo was not shot against the steel plate in this test, as it had previously proven to easily perforate similar steel. The .308 shots against the steel proved interesting, as the first 4 shots of .308 ammo were easily stopped, however, the 5th shot fully perforated the steel, but was contained within the soft armor; because of this annomoly, a 6th shot was taken which yielded the same results as the 5th shot.
Bx3

Real Money Now | 09-24-2009 04:06 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1938331) At CQB distances (home invasion distance) M193 has a better record of defeating certain armor plates. As taken from a reliable source: Bx3
Very interesting, thanks!

Bx3 | 09-24-2009 04:13 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? I'm a .308/7.62x51 guy myself but sometimes light and fast is better. Since the M193 is lighter and faster (usually over 3000fps) than the M855 up close, it has some advantages in close. Out at distance you are correct that the M855 has the barrier penetration advantage. Bx3

Ghost Recon | 09-24-2009 06:08 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? I've been hanging out on AR-15.com and they like Brown Bear. Steel case, I know. So I decided to try it and bought 3 boxes locally. No problems. Then I ordered a case. I've shot 300 rounds of it without any problems. It may not work in all guns but it works in mine. $280 shipped to my front door. And I've found it even cheaper than that. Just thought I'd mention it as an alternative.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 09-24-2009 06:10 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? Won't steel case wear out the extractor or ejector or something? I've been too paranoid about that to use it (thus far)...

Ghost Recon | 09-24-2009 06:13 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 1938564) Won't steel case wear out the extractor or ejector or something? I've been too paranoid about that to use it (thus far)...
Spend some time over on AR-15.com. In one of the stickies they've got a thread on Brown Bear. I read most of it and no one mentioned extractor problems. Wolf is the one I won't try. They like Brown Bear a lot better than Wolf. edit...and before someone mentions the 'laquer problem'. They call bullshtt on it.

SilverCity | 09-24-2009 07:24 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? 2 Attachment(s) ARs have a tighter chamber and I don't recommend shooting lacquered steel cases. But, suit yourself folks... How about that extractor bite? Stripped the rim right off the stuck cases. If you want to reliably shoot steel-cased 223 ammo, get a Kalashnikov (like Saiga). :wink:

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 09-24-2009 11:46 PM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? 1 Attachment(s) How would the Brown Bear do going through this? Would it tear up the extractor/ejector?

SilverCity | 09-25-2009 12:23 AM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? No, Brown Bear should run like a champ in that Bulgarian. It's designed for it. Kalashnikovs usually have more generous chamber dimensions. The above photos were rounds that got stuck and failed to extract in AR-15s. When brass cases are fired they rapidly expand to chamber dimensions, then contract. This allows for easier extraction. But, steel cases are not as flexible and don't contract as much, and it is necessary to cut LOOSER chambers (like in AKs) to ensure reliable extraction and prevent sticking. BTW, many AR shooters report no problems shooting steel cased stuff.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 09-25-2009 01:24 AM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? Many thanks, SC. The benefit of your experience - and wisdom - is very gratefully appreciated!

tulsamal | 09-25-2009 08:38 AM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? 90% of my "go to" AR mags are loaded with M193. I do keep a few mags loaded with M855/SS109 just in case the bad guys are shooting at me and using a car/truck for cover. I keep the M855 mags marked. A piece of gray duct tape on the front bottom with M855 AP written on it. Doesn't hurt to be prepared for the unusual. But in general, GI mil-spec M193 is the way to go. Gregg

Ghost Recon | 09-25-2009 09:30 AM
Re: M855 or M193: which type of 5.56 should I buy? I agree, your 'go to' ammo should not be Brown Bear but something brass cased. Over on AR-15.com I drilled down to the actual BB thread. Here are the statistics from 301 AR shooters who actually tried it: 82.06% had no problems 13.29% had minor problems but will continue to use it 4.65% had major problems and will not use it So I bought a few boxes to try. Before this I was shooting PMC Bronze. The PMC shell casings would land on the concrete pad the shooting bench was on. The BB not only ejected but went further off the pad into the gravel. Perhaps a slightly hotter round? So it's been 300 rounds without a problem. I shoot every week and can't afford the PMC. By the way, I wouldn't use the PMC in a shtf situation either.

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