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- - FFL Holders (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=336775)

90%RealMoney | 01-05-2009 09:40 PM
FFL Holders I had a FFL almost 20 years ago. Never used it at the time. I was thinking of getting one again. Is it worth paying those services to get the necessary papers, or will the BATF website send you all that you need, with no runaround? Seems like a good thing to have as a possible side business, or just to get one's own personal toys.

eat_beef | 01-05-2009 10:02 PM
Re: FFL Holders If you go through the process, please let us know how it goes. From what I've heard, it's a real pain, even for a brick and mortar. Kitchen table? Forget about it. That said, it's all second hand info, so I don't really KNOW.

extremist | 01-05-2009 10:25 PM
Re: FFL Holders I looked into this in my area, but it's no longer practical unless you actually plan to open a gun shop. There's a requirement for a bona fide, properly zoned storefront with public business hours, as well as local red tape in addition to the federal paperwork. The "How to Get Your FFL" instruction booklets I've found are more or less obsolete.

latitude22 | 01-05-2009 10:28 PM
Re: FFL Holders Yea you have to have the local sheriff sign off on it, the guys here is pretty decent from what I have been told (my dealer is a kitchen table dealer), but i think we'll see the kitchen table guys start to lose their licenses once the regime changes.

Lars Ragnarsson | 01-05-2009 10:33 PM
Re: FFL Holders When I requested the forms for my C&R license from the BATF website, I got them pronto - no hassles.

The Argent Dragon | 01-06-2009 09:47 AM
Re: FFL Holders For personal use stick with the Curio & Relic license. It's simple to get if you're patient and only $30 for 3-yrs and then $10 every year thereafter. :wink:

eat_beef | 01-06-2009 10:36 AM
Re: FFL Holders C&R isn't much use if your 'personal use' items aren't obsolete.

The Argent Dragon | 01-06-2009 10:41 AM
Re: FFL Holders Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1497742) C&R isn't much use if your 'personal use' items aren't obsolete.
Well, the variety of semi's available is slim but they're out there. Yugo SKS 59/66 Colt 45-auto 1927 Model CZ pistols Walther P-38 .......to name a few.

eat_beef | 01-06-2009 10:57 AM
Re: FFL Holders And except for the 1911, they're all obsolete. By definition, surplus arms are obsolete arms. Ivan didn't sell those things off for 5 FRNS each because they're cutting edge. Not to say they can't/don't still serve a purpose. But just because something is semi auto doesn't make it non obsolete, just like something NOT being semi auto doesn't make it obsolete (RE: Chey Tac and Rem M40A1 bolt guns).

The Argent Dragon | 01-06-2009 11:23 AM
Re: FFL Holders Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1497787) And except for the 1911, they're all obsolete.
Tell me how a Colt 1927 Sistema that has interchangeable parts with the 1911 is obsolete ? http://www.floridagunworks.com/Merch...000001/043.jpg And I'd hardly call the SKS obsolete........plenty of mod upgrades to make improvements if necessary. http://www.classicarms.us/images/M59-66.jpg The basic functioning of semi-autos has not changed in 60-70 years. :bear_rolleyes:

The Argent Dragon | 01-06-2009 11:29 AM
Re: FFL Holders Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1497787) By definition, surplus arms are obsolete arms. Ivan didn't sell those things off for 5 FRNS each because they're cutting edge.
I disagree - surplus isn't always about obsolescence. Some bonehead gets a gov't contract to put $$$ in his pocket based on politics is a fine example. Does the name Eugene Stoner ring a bell ??? Now, if a military is looking for lighter weight arms, lower costs in production, or cartridge compatibility then the older arms are 'surplus' which means nothing to the privateer who isn't outfitting 1 million soldiers. I do agree that lots if not most of C&R items are outdated, old, and obsolete but don't discount ALL of them. :wink:

eat_beef | 01-06-2009 07:48 PM
Re: FFL Holders 1ex�cept http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif Pronunciation: \ik-ˈsept\ Variant(s): also ex�cept�ing http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif \-ˈsep-tiŋ\ Function: preposition Date: 14th century : with the exclusion or exception of <daily except Sundays:biggrin: As I said, except for the 1911 clone, they're all obsolete. ob⋅so⋅lete /ˌɒbhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.pngsəˈlit, ˈɒbhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.pngsəˌlit/ Show Spelled Pronunciation http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/dictiona...on_default.gif [ob-s uh-leet, ob-s uh-leet] Show IPA Pronunciation http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/dictiona...on_default.gif adjective, verb, -let⋅ed, -let⋅ing. –adjective 1.no longer in general use; fallen into disuse: an obsolete expression. 2.of a discarded or outmoded type; out of date: an obsolete battleship. I never said any were useless. Back to the original purpose of the thread, if one wants any firearm designed or built in the last 60 years, the C&R IS useless, as I'm sure, the OP is well aware.:moon:

Eulenspiegel | 01-06-2009 09:22 PM
Re: FFL Holders The CZ-82 is C&R, but I don't consider it obsolete. In fact, it is a very nice handgun.

latitude22 | 01-06-2009 09:25 PM
Re: FFL Holders Anyhow to the topic at hand, it's no substitute for an FFL, no matter how much you love the sks or 1911, it's a lot more limited then an FFL

GunNut | 01-07-2009 12:20 AM
Re: FFL Holders Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1497033) If you go through the process, please let us know how it goes. From what I've heard, it's a real pain, even for a brick and mortar. Kitchen table? Forget about it. That said, it's all second hand info, so I don't really KNOW.
I'm in the process of getting an 07FFL(manufacturer lisc.), I have a friend that went through it a few years ago and is helping me out. My friend runs his out of his house(he holds an 07FFL and 02SOT), I'm planning out of my house also. It really depends on what type of FFL you are applying for, say if I was applying for a 01FFL(dealers lisc.) and wanted to be a kitchen table gun dealer...forget about it, those days are long gone. Now days you need a brick and mortar location to get an 01FFL; even with a store front, it is extermely hard to get 01FFL with a 03SOT(this is what people refer to as a Class 3 dealer). I'm a bodyman/painter by trade, so I'm looking to get into refinishing. Duracoating, parkerzing, hot blueing, ect. First thing I did was get the forms from the BATFE, they are free. The next step is to get approval from the city you live in, they approved me for having a "gunsmithing buisness". You have to get approval from your city first, if you don't have it the ATF won't give you a lisc. Next you have to get an LLC or a sole propietership(sp?), get a State ID number and a Federal ID number. Get fingerprinted, fill out paper work, get your local head LEO to sign off on it. Send your paper work in with check. About three months later you will have an inspection/interview with an ATF agent. About a month after that, they will cash your check. About another month after that you will get you FFL if you are approved. If they don't cash your check, you aren't approved and they will return the check to you. This isn't set in stone, but this is what my friend went through a few years back. But generally how it works. The biggest thing the ATF is looking for is you are going to be running a BUISNESS and frown on people holding an FFL just for collecting. Once every three years, you get a suprise inspection. GN

AG Capone | 01-07-2009 12:33 AM
Re: FFL Holders Quote:
Originally Posted by GunNut (Post 1499181) I'm in the process of getting an 07FFL(manufacturer lisc.)
This is what I'd like to get in the future. Please keep us updated!

latitude22 | 01-07-2009 03:02 AM
Re: FFL Holders Yea definitely keep us posted, I've been tossing around the idea, my dealer always tells me I should do it. I am interested to see how it goes, good luck!

mouse | 01-07-2009 04:31 AM
Re: FFL Holders C&R's are dangerous ground if you do anything to them to make them "less obsolete". Case in point the SKS. If you have an original and do basically anything to it, you are now under 922 and need to change out your parts to make it less than 10 imported. I am trying to figure out the legality of mine and if I can put it into the clothes and stuff that I have for it. At this point, legally, I think the sks is best left with original stocks and equipment, with a small scope and learn to use stripper clips. I don't want to have a federal, let alone a state issue. I am still researching, but it seems that you can unintentionally and even "constructively" build an Illegal firearm by just changing stocks or something simple on a C&R rifle.

The Argent Dragon | 01-07-2009 11:26 AM
Re: FFL Holders Quote:
Originally Posted by mouse (Post 1499392) C&R's are dangerous ground if you do anything to them to make them "less obsolete". Case in point the SKS. If you have an original and do basically anything to it, you are now under 922 and need to change out your parts to make it less than 10 imported. I am trying to figure out the legality of mine and if I can put it into the clothes and stuff that I have for it.....
You can actually have 10 parts imported as the maximum. The stock counts as 3 parts (US replacement) The mag counts as 3 parts (US replacement) Hope this helps with your 922r compliance. :wink: Also, you can replace the muzzle break & piston + operating rod for 3 more parts (US replacement).

SLV>GLD | 01-07-2009 11:38 AM
Re: FFL Holders What fun 922r is! http://home.comcast.net/~navy87guy/home/922r.html

The Argent Dragon | 01-07-2009 11:39 AM
Re: FFL Holders Here's a great link for 922r Compliance from the TAPCO site : http://www.tapco.com/section922r.aspx (c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are: (1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings (2) Barrels (3) Barrel extensions (4) Mounting blocks (trunions) (5) Muzzle attachments (6) Bolts (7) Bolt carriers (8) Operating rods (9) Gas pistons (10) Trigger housings (11) Triggers (12) Hammers (13) Sears (14) Disconnectors (15) Butt stocks (16) Pistol grips (17) Forearms, hand guards (18) Magazine bodies (19) Followers (20) Floor plates 17 Parts are regulated for the SKS meaning you'd have to replace 7 of them. Only 16 parts regulated for the AK though.

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