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- - 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=390745)

SilverCity | 07-13-2009 09:49 PM
45 ACP vs. 45 GAP 1 Attachment(s) Because someone asked in a PM and I couldn't link the picture:

Gaillo | 07-13-2009 10:19 PM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...es/XD45Gap.jpg

Twisted Avatar | 07-13-2009 10:53 PM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP So the bulllets are tad bit differnet in length. That doesnt affect the performance as to which one is better???

Heimdhal | 07-13-2009 11:02 PM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1816002) So the bulllets are tad bit differnet in length. That doesnt affect the performance as to which one is better???
simply put the .45 GAP was/is an uneeded round. It didnt do anything the .45 ACP couldnt already do, other than MAYBE fit in a SLIGHTLY smaller grip. Its one thing to take a 45 long colt, chop it in half and call it a .45 ACP. Its a far different thing to take a battle proven round like the .45 ACP, give it a haircut and some how manage to not make people think its just the retarded redheaded step child of the .45 family. :tongue_ma:

.41Dave | 07-13-2009 11:10 PM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1816002) So the bulllets are tad bit differnet in length. That doesnt affect the performance as to which one is better???
.45 GAP and standard pressure .45 ACP are almost identical in performance, but .45 ACP has two advantages; 1) Availability of +P loads that boost performance over that which the .45 GAP can deliver. 2) .45 ACP ammo is more readily available and cheaper than .45 GAP. All in all, .45 GAP is an answer in search of a question. I personally think it was invented just because Gaston Glock wanted his name on a cartridge.

tulsamal | 07-13-2009 11:19 PM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP Quote:
simply put the .45 GAP was/is an uneeded round. It didnt do anything the .45 ACP couldnt already do, other than MAYBE fit in a SLIGHTLY smaller grip.
From a performance standpoint, the 45 GAP wasn't supposed to do anything _more_ than the .45 ACP. It was supposed to perform just the _same._ Factory ammo from the same companies should show the same velocities for the two cartridges. As you mention, the difference is purely based on size. I will admit that the cartridge seems to have failed in the marketplace. (And I don't own one.) But I never really understood the animosity toward the cartridge. If we can slightly reduce the length of the grand old .45 ACP and therefore chamber guns for it that would usually only be available in 9mm or .40 S&W, how is that a bad thing? SA had said over and over again that the XP design couldn't handle the .45 ACP. So I fully expected to see a .45 GAP version. (And we did briefly.) Then somehow the engineers found a way to make a .45 ACP version! And that tiny little Kahr .45 ACP came out. When I saw that, I realized the .45 GAP just wasn't going to make it. The promise was there. "Wouldn't it be cool if we could chamber all the various 9mm/.40 S&W designs for .45 instead?" I was thinking of all the handguns that just didn't have a gripframe that could handle .45 ACP (or .38 Super) and how cool it would be to have them as .45's. Like the Browning Hi Power. And SA was going to make a smaller frame 1911 for the cartridge. (Instead we ended up with that gun in 9mm.) I can't help but feel like we missed an opportunity to have some cool old and new designs in .45 but too many people just couldn't get past the fact that the cartridge had "Glock" in the name! Glock was willing to make pistols that said .357 SIG on them but SIG wasn't willing to make any that said Glock! Turned out to be a whole lot of companies like that. As I said, it is basically a dead issue now. Nobody is going to come out with any new .45 GAP pistols. If I owned one I would stock up on brass and then not worry about it. Especially since you could always buy some .45 ACP +P brass and trim it down to make your own. Not exactly rocket science. Gregg

tulsamal | 07-13-2009 11:22 PM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP Quote:
1) Availability of +P loads that boost performance over that which the .45 GAP can deliver.
1) How many CCW .45 ACP people carry +P ammo? 5 or 10%? Most .45 ACP people seem quite satisfied with standard pressure ammo. And their guns are happier for it. 2) The is no technical reason that the ammo companies couldn't have come out with a .45 GAP +P if there was a perceived need for it. Gregg

tulsamal | 07-13-2009 11:25 PM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP Quote:
2) .45 ACP ammo is more readily available and cheaper than .45 GAP.
Back when .45 GAP was still alive and kicking, you could buy bulk ammo for either gun for the same price. I compared it at ammoman.com one day and his prices for 500 rounds or more were identical. True, a lot of stores didn't carry .45 GAP but you could say the same for most of the rounds I like to fire the most. (.357 SIG, .41 Magnum, 10mm, .44 Special.) I'm not going to pick more cartridges based on whether I can buy loaded ammo at Wal-Mart. I reload 99% of what I fire and the rest I will buy online for the lower prices. Gregg

Heimdhal | 07-13-2009 11:49 PM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP Tul, you pretty much said it all. Ill add though that while we may have missed an opportunity, it was a necessity. There was really nothing wrong with the .45 other than, as you mentioned, the limits of certain platforms to handle it. Plenty of compact .45's out there with happy homes. I dont dislike it because it dared tread on my precious .45 ACP, but simply because it wasnt really needed and I dont recall, though there may have been, any real demand for a redesigned .45. Im sure part of it was the GAP part. Could have called it a .45 ACP Short or something and that might have helped. Needless to say again, as you already did, the .45 GAP is dead in the water for the most part. Thats fine with me to be honest. I've got nothing but love for my .45 ACP :)

.41Dave | 07-14-2009 12:00 AM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsamal (Post 1816042) 1) How many CCW .45 ACP people carry +P ammo? 5 or 10%? Most .45 ACP people seem quite satisfied with standard pressure ammo. And their guns are happier for it. 2) The is no technical reason that the ammo companies couldn't have come out with a .45 GAP +P if there was a perceived need for it. Gregg
The .45 GAP is loaded to the same maximum average pressure as the .45 Auto +P: 23,000 psi. The .45 GAP cannot reach the same velocity and energy levels as the .45 ACP with 230-grain bullets without exceeding safe-pressure limits--at least with currently existing propellants. If you want to use 230 grain bullets, you still need the bigger ACP case.

SilverCity | 07-14-2009 12:40 AM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP The 45 ACP is more flexible for reloaders. But, most all major ammo manufacturers offer the 230 grain GAP load.

Twisted Avatar | 07-14-2009 09:57 AM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1816164) The 45 ACP is more flexible for reloaders. But, most all major ammo manufacturers offer the 230 grain GAP load.
230 Grains?? That must do a serious number on the firing pin and barrel etc. Are most 45's able to take that abuse ?? Only reason why I asking was because the PSL Romak rifle can only shoot 150 grains using anything higher (like brown bear 230 GRS) will dam near wreck it Thats alot of GP on a handgun bullet. T

Heimdhal | 07-14-2009 10:12 AM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1816501) 230 Grains?? That must do a serious number on the firing pin and barrel etc. Are most 45's able to take that abuse ?? Only reason why I asking was because the PSL Romak rifle can only shoot 150 grains using anything higher (like brown bear 230 GRS) will dam near wreck it Thats alot of GP on a handgun bullet. T
230 is the 'standard' load weight. Of course you can get loads in any number of weights; JHP's in 185 grains like corbon's etc which give you high velocities. 230 is fine for .45 acp's. If you have a .45 ACP that cant shoot 230 grain rounds, then you have the wrong .45 :P In fact, Ill say, I dont think I've seen less than 185 grains for a .45, thought Im sure there probably are some.

45 ACP | 07-14-2009 12:40 PM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1815950) http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...es/XD45Gap.jpg
This might actually be funny if Glock didn't offer a .45 ACP, but they do. In many yummy flavors as well.

Lars Ragnarsson | 07-14-2009 12:41 PM
Re: 45 ACP vs. 45 GAP Quote:
Originally Posted by .41Dave (Post 1816022) 2) .45 ACP ammo is more readily available and cheaper than .45 GAP.
The same 8 boxes have been sitting on the shelf of my local WalMart for about 4 months now. Haven't seen any .45 ACP in that time span. The lady that does the ordering told me that when the ammo shortage started taking shape, she ordered anything they had available. She had no idea what the difference was between GAP and ACP - she just knew they weren't interchangeable. That would also explain the 7 boxes of .38 Super that's been on the shelf next to the .45 GAP. That said, your statement is likely correct for the long term. You'll probably be able to find it for a few years, but it won't be cheap.

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