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- - I'm thinking about opening a firearms store (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=435537)

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 07:37 PM
I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I recently began investigating getting an FFL to import and deal in firearms. I wanted to get the import license so I could bring in a certain line of beautifully crafted bolt-action rifles not currently available in the USA. Although this would still be a goal of mine, I started thinking about opening a gun store with a very narrow focus. "The Ready Patriot Armory" 6 calibers - 15 firearms - 9 manufacturers. The essential firearms to equip patriots to defend their home and their country. Guns for the good guys - so they can shoot the bad guys. "The Second Ammendment: Use it, or lose it." How would a store like this play in the public? What if I made no bones about it that I sold guns specifically to shoot people in order to defend life and liberty. I have a feeling it would be strongly polarizing -- drawing protests and legal action to shut me down, but also garnering a strong following of libertarian-minded patriots. My goal would be to stock a narrow offering of the best value (quality + affordability) firearms in the essential calibers. I don't want to sell just the highest quality, but I want to sell quality firearms that average Joe's can afford. I would be like the "soup nazi" of gun store owners - either agree with my choices and buy something, or shut up and leave. WOULD YOU SHOP AT MY STORE? Here is my current narrow list of offerings along with estimated retail price (I would be selling on small margin): .22 LR LONG RANGE BOLT - Savage Mark II FV (synthetic, heavy barreled with Acutrigger) - $235 http://www.savagearms.com/images/fir...m/markiifv.png BACK UP CONCEALED - North American Arms Holster Grip mini-revolver - $205 http://www.naaminis.com/pix/hg1t.jpg SURVIVAL - Henry US Survival AR-7 in black (light-weight barrel and action stows in stock; and it floats!) - $200 http://www.henryrepeating.com/images...urvival_lg.jpg HIGH CAPACITY - Ruger 10-22 Full-Contour Synthetic (black) - $205 http://www.ruger-firearms.com/produc...mages/1151.jpg SUPPRESSED - Sig Sauer Mosquito Tactical Threaded - $355 http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/cata...B-detail-L.jpg 5.56 NATO LONG RANGE BOLT - Savage Stevens 200 - $325 http://www.savagearms.com/images/fir...ns200short.png COMPACT AR - DPMS Panther Lite 16" CAR-15 w/ M4 stock - $700 http://www.rrarms.com/cat_images/GRFA2-L16.JPG TARGET AR - DPMS Panther Bull 20" - $850 http://www.rrarms.com/cat_images/GRFA2-BULL20-A3.JPG 7.62x39 AK-47 CARBINE - New USA built Century International Arms in black synthetic - $400 http://www.centuryarms.biz/images/Ri...L_RI1515-N.jpg AK-47 PISTOL - New USA built Century International Arms Romanian Draco - $400 http://www.centuryarms.biz/images/Ha...20&%201845.jpg 7.62 NATO LONG RANGE BOLT - Savage Stevens 200 - $325 http://www.savagearms.com/images/fir...ns200short.png SEMI-AUTO MBR - DPMS LR-308B 18" - $950 http://www.rrarms.com/cat_images/GRFLR-308B.JPG 12 GAUGE TACTICAL SEMI-AUTO - Mossberg 930 SPX Tactical - $630 http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/i...1/58/58489.jpg DEFENSIVE PISTOL GRIP PUMP - Mossberg 500 Cruiser Tactical - $340 http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/i...1/54/54553.jpg 9mm OFFICIAL ISSUE PATRIOT SIDEARM - Glock 19 - $550 http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/i...1/73/73204.jpg I will only sell accessories directly related to those firearms I carry. Including duty ammunition (Federal Hydrashock / Tactical Bonded / Premium) as well as practice ammunition (Like WWB, Blazer, or mil-surp). NO OTHER ACCESSORIES. My goal is strictly to arm law-abiding patriots with ARMS (not sporting goods) for defending their homes and their country from the "bad guys" (no matter where they come from). So, what do you think? Is my list thorough enough? What would you substitute that could improve on the VALUE of my offerings (quality + affordability)?

Kregener | 12-28-2009 07:40 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Here's hoping you do well...if you decide that you like having F-Troop crawling up your ass every other day.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 08:07 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I found a small store front (400 square feet) across from the police station in a town 15 miles outside of La Crosse, WI, for $200/month. Even though the population of the town is less than 5,000, there is a population in a 30 mile radius greater than 100k. I think there would be enough people willing to drive a up to 30 miles for good deals on firearms that are unavailable elsewhere. Around here there are "sporting good" gun stores with all sorts of hunting guns. Occasionally you run across the used AR, SKS, or AK. Based on what I saw living in Colorado (at Jensen Arms in Loveland) people will drive a great distance for a fair deal on arms (not "guns"). PS - My wife is freaked out about the idea -- she doesn't think I'm organized enough to keep up with all of the FFL paperwork. She thinks I'll get myself in trouble with the BATF accidentally. I'd like to think she is wrong, but I have to admit I do better with "big picture" ideas than details.

ThomasJ1776 | 12-28-2009 08:11 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I would say open your AR selection just a little bit. It seems most hardcore AR dont care for Olympic Arms alot, you may lose some support for dealing only with them. And i hate to ask, but where are the Glocks?

ThomasJ1776 | 12-28-2009 08:11 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Nvm, I'm stupid about the Glocks, sorry.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 08:15 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I want to limit the number of manufacturers with which I deal so that I can get better quantity discounts. I admit that I prefer RRA or DPMS, but I'm really trying to find the best price point, not the top quality. What brand AR do you think would be a better offering? I want one CAR-15 (16" - prefer M4 collapsible stock) and one flat top A2 (20" - free float). I can't think of a more practical defensive weapon than the compact, high-capacity, 9mm Glock 19. The caliber is the perfect "value" - a balance of low cost, high availability, significant power, and high capacity. The G19 is just big enough to pack a wallop, but just small enough to conceal comfortably. No other sidearm offering is NECESSARY in my book (although I actually like the CZ P-01 more!).

goldrad | 12-28-2009 08:15 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Good idea, but with the thin margins on firearms, you probably won't be making much of a profit, or just cover your overhead. Is there a large enough population in your area to support such a store? Cleaning supplies?

phideaux | 12-28-2009 08:19 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
found a small store front (400 square feet) across from the police station
You'll probably get a good base of customers and referrals right there.

melbo | 12-28-2009 08:20 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store what state?

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 08:20 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Total retail price for all 16 of these fabulous fire arms is only $7,070! Now THAT is a value! I just KNOW Twisted Avatar will be my #1 customer ;) ... but Argent Dragon might be close behind (if it wasn't for his great love of peculiar and unique firearms).

SilverCity | 12-28-2009 08:20 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I would scratch the Olympic Arms, and look into something else. AR-philes tend NOT to hold them in high regard. Maybe Double Star or Stag? And how viable is the gun market in Wisconsin? What would be your nearest competition? I live in a small town and the 2 local gunshops are straight-up retail, and I doubt they do much business, except among the occasional rancher/hunter/bowhunter. So, I drive either 2 1/2 hours one way or 4 hours the other way to buy what I need.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 08:21 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by goldrad (Post 2097994) Good idea, but with the thin margins on firearms, you probably won't be making much of a profit, or just cover your overhead. Is there a large enough population in your area to support such a store? Cleaning supplies?
For cleaning supplies I like to keep it simple: Non-aerosol BreakFree CLP and Hoppes Bore Snakes. Like I said, minimal accessories -- only that which is necessary to support the firearms I sell.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 08:23 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by melbo (Post 2098005) what state?
Wisconsin. I could sell the cans for the Mosquito, but I want to avoid anything that needs a tax stamp and special paperwork. One bad thing about my location is that I am on the Minnesota border, so it is a bit like a wall between me and a lot of potential customers. Maybe I could open a second store across the border in the future...

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 08:28 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I'm not a fan of Stag, but after looking at the DoubleStar it doesn't look like too much of a cost increase if the quality is significantly better. However, only Olympic has that awesome pistol without the recoil tube.

Ag_man | 12-28-2009 08:32 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I think you've got a great cross-section of firearms, what do you have in mind for stocking levels? Inventory can make or break you. The only additions I would recommend would be a hunting 12 gauge shotgun, Rem or Mossberg, nothing really expensive and maybe a .357 revolver. LaCrosse, I don't know about the location, but you could draw from both IA and MN, if you advertise. Best of luck to you!!:ok:

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 08:36 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I'm not sure if I would be allowed to sell to bordering states or not. When I was in Colorado that was the case, but I know Wisconsin is a lot stricter on guns than Colorado. No hunting guns -- doesn't fit with my purpose. Inventory will be the tricky part. The market is finicky enough that if I run out of stock it can take a lot to get replenished. On the other hand, it will take and tie up a LOT of capital to stock 10 of everything (@ $70k). That isn't happening without a loan. I have thought about starting out by selling online until I can get enough capital to keep a store stocked.

hoarder | 12-28-2009 08:38 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store It sounds do-able. I like the chosen calibers and most of the firearms although I personally shy away from Century and Olympic Arms. DTI might be better for budget AR15's, better reputation. I would avoid "tactical" furniture on shotguns, they really don't add much utility. You would definitely have to get into the detail mode to do the paperwork and avoid any proof-of-residency issues etc. I doubt it would be a very profitable venture. Most small gun dealers do it because they have a passion for guns/gun culture. But if you have few other money making opportunities and time on your hands go for it. People skills come in handy if you have them, but plenty of gun dealers don't have any. If there was a GIMer ffl around here I would give them by business! "How many one ounce Prospectors would ya have to have fer that AK?"

latitude22 | 12-28-2009 08:45 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store The gun shops around here that can keep stuff in stock are SWAMPED, I think if you're willing to jump through the hoops it can be done. My guy is a kitchen table FFL, stocks very little has no retail location and he's made a killing the last couple years. So much so he plans on getting a retail location. His thing is knowing where to get stuff. When I call him and ask him if he can get something he works his butt off to find it. Setting up the contacts, suppliers, etc, etc... would prolly be the most important part after jumping through the ATF hoops.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 08:56 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by latitude22 (Post 2098060) The gun shops around here that can keep stuff in stock are SWAMPED, I think if you're willing to jump through the hoops it can be done. My guy is a kitchen table FFL, stocks very little has no retail location and he's made a killing the last couple years. So much so he plans on getting a retail location. His thing is knowing where to get stuff. When I call him and ask him if he can get something he works his butt off to find it. Setting up the contacts, suppliers, etc, etc... would prolly be the most important part after jumping through the ATF hoops.
That is what I was thinking. I could offer a basic menu, know my turn-around times from the manufacturers, and people might be willing to wait a couple weeks to get a good deal from me. That would make it so I wouldn't have to tie up a lot of capital. In fact, I could just keep one of each model "on the shelf" just for people to handle, and then order for them what they want. I could do this "from the kitchen table" for starters, then maybe a store front when I get enough working capital. I think word of mouth would bring in a lot of business if I treat people right and give them a good deal.

Ag_man | 12-28-2009 09:00 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 2098050) . People skills come in handy if you have them, but plenty of gun dealers don't have any.
So very, very true! Salesmanship in the gun biz is mainly limited to, "If you don't like it, GTFO". Dale Carnegie drop outs. I can't say how many FRNs that shitty attitudes have cost the local gun shops around here.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 09:02 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 2098088) So very, very true! Salesmanship in the gun biz is mainly limited to, "If you don't like it, GTFO". Dale Carnegie drop outs. I can't say how many FRNs that shitty attitudes have cost the local gun shops around here.
I think most gun dealers get tired of the stupid comments by arm-chair commandos who think that their experience in gaming translates to tactical training. I agree that the best gun stores I've been in have had a "take-no-crap" attitude. Maybe they could get away with it because their sales were just that good.

Wilhelm | 12-28-2009 09:04 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I think most people have a set gun they want to purchase, and by you not stocking it you are greatly limiting your profits Best of luck

mick silver | 12-28-2009 09:06 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2098082) That is what I was thinking. I could offer a basic menu, know my turn-around times from the manufacturers, and people might be willing to wait a couple weeks to get a good deal from me. That would make it so I wouldn't have to tie up a lot of capital. In fact, I could just keep one of each model "on the shelf" just for people to handle, and then order for them what they want. I could do this "from the kitchen table" for starters, then maybe a store front when I get enough working capital. I think word of mouth would bring in a lot of business if I treat people right and give them a good deal.
you would need to trust who comes to your home ...

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 09:08 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhelm (Post 2098097) I think most people have a set gun they want to purchase, and by you not stocking it you are greatly limiting your profits Best of luck
I don't think so. Most people I see walk into a gun store want the proprietor to help them select the right firearm. Here at GIM we are more likely to know what we want, but how often do threads even show up here - "Which gun should I buy?" I think I have enough good reasons to talk any person into buying any one of these 16 guns.

SLV>GLD | 12-28-2009 09:14 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I agree with Wilhelm to a point; not stocking isn't an issue if you can order it. Also, a big NO to the CETME but a big vote for practically any other .308. Maybe a Saiga 308 to stay in the same price range?

SLV>GLD | 12-28-2009 09:16 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Also, too many .22 firearms, imho. A 10/22 and a mosquito (suggest walther p22 as alternative) are plenty for that caliber.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 09:20 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 2098120) I agree with Wilhelm to a point; not stocking isn't an issue if you can order it. Also, a big NO to the CETME but a big vote for practically any other .308. Maybe a Saiga 308 to stay in the same price range?
I was trying to stick with US manufacture. I thought about putting in a smattering of Saigas, but I know that they can be hard to keep in stock. There really aren't many great deals in .308 MBRs. I LOVE Fals... but a DSA STG-58 would set back the customer over $1,300 -- not the value I'm looking to pass on. I'm not a big fan of the PTR-91s - ugly and overpriced. DPMS LAR-308b is awesome, but the price tag is still over a grand. Why not the CETME?

moreair | 12-28-2009 09:20 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I would visit your store for a look. Problem is that I already know what I want, and if you don't sell it, then I am not coming. If you get a new to guns person armed. He or she is only likely to come back one or twice. The reason is they will be bored with your selection. They will then go to the big gun store in the next town where they can enjoy lots of eye candy. I would think you would be better served by selling lots of stuff to keep the same customers coming back again and again. I do think that "arming the patriot" would be a great sales line, but I will want to shop at a store that that has selections not dictations. Just my 2cents....

Wilhelm | 12-28-2009 09:22 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store you may be right I've noticed in my business more and more people have researched the internet and right or wrong they have formed an opinion before they come to me, a trend I see continuing. That's a very good list of guns, I own two of them Have you looked into whether those manufacturers offer quantity discounts?

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 09:32 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 2098126) Also, too many .22 firearms, imho. A 10/22 and a mosquito (suggest walther p22 as alternative) are plenty for that caliber.
Thanks. I think the SIG has a better reputation for reliability than the Walther. I debated on the Henry, but it is just a unique and handy tool. I think the Ruger 10-22 is mediocre in stock accuracy, but it can deliver a lot of lead quickly. The Savage .22 with Acutrigger and heavy barrel should be a very accurate distance .22. I just plain like my NAA holster grip .22 ;)

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- - I'm thinking about opening a firearms store (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=435537)

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 09:34 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store All of them talk about sending in an FFL to get "dealer pricing". I'm sure there are quantity price points. I won't be able to compete with some places like www.budsgunshop.com and www.rrarms.com.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 09:37 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by moreair (Post 2098134) I would visit your store for a look. Problem is that I already know what I want, and if you don't sell it, then I am not coming. If you get a new to guns person armed. He or she is only likely to come back one or twice. The reason is they will be bored with your selection. They will then go to the big gun store in the next town where they can enjoy lots of eye candy. I would think you would be better served by selling lots of stuff to keep the same customers coming back again and again. I do think that "arming the patriot" would be a great sales line, but I will want to shop at a store that that has selections not dictations. Just my 2cents....
If that is the case, I would be better off being an "Everything AR-15" store. Maybe that is the route to go. Have every possible upper / lower / caliber / tacticool-tool.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 09:38 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store ... then again, I like my original idea of importing a line of high-quality bolt guns currently unavailable in our country. It would be a smaller volume / higher margin opportunity, and if I don't actually retail them myself my only customers would be a dealer network. At this point I have been completely unable to find a job anywhere, and I've run out of places to apply, so I'm trying to come up with a business I could start and enjoy running. I'd definitely enjoy this, but the hardest thing about starting any business is working capital. I hate being unemployed -- it is so boring and restrictive.

desertjack | 12-28-2009 09:45 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store One way to increase revenue with a limited stock on hand is to offer a reasonable tranfer charge to people who want to order specific items. Basically undercut the bigger shops on stuff people want from Gunbroker or AIM or whoever. Most dealers around me want $40 -50 to do this but there is one guy who charges $20 so guess who gets my business.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 09:46 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by desertjack (Post 2098205) One way to increase revenue with a limited stock on hand is to offer a reasonable tranfer charge to people who want to order specific items. Basically undercut the bigger shops on stuff people want from Gunbroker or AIM or whoever. Most dealers around me want $40 -50 to do this but there is one guy who charges $20 so guess who gets my business.
I was thinking about this very thing. $20 transfers would put a little cash in the pocket for some recording time with no overhead.

desertjack | 12-28-2009 09:49 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2098207) I was thinking about this very thing. $20 transfers would put a little cash in the pocket for some recording time with no overhead.
That's exactly what the guy I'm talking about did, he started out just doing the transfers in his home and now he has a full shop with a customer base already familiar with him.

SLV>GLD | 12-28-2009 09:51 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2098133) Why not the CETME?
You are correct that decent .308s run upwards of $1K-$2K. CETME has a long and sordid history of build quality issues and the Century builds are especially notorious. Funny, the wikipedia page on that rifle used to abound with the most frequently encountered issues but they seem to have been edited out. A quick search for something along the lines of "CETME problems" will clue you in. It seems that a good, reliable (gun after gun after gun) CETME is going to be one of the older models and will put you right back up into the $1K-$2K territory. Century CETMEs appear to be very hit or miss and, imho, if you are going to run a very limited stock then the guns need to be choices that have outstanding reputations for reliability. PS I am a die-hard Made in USA kind of guy and I do tend to prefer my firearms to be as well but firearms are one of the few arenas where various other countries can provide exceptional quality and function and there should be no shame in sourcing them. Come to think of it all of my firearms are either USA made or heritage (my Browning is made by FN). Edit: Had to laugh at myself when I got up and realized I had a Moisin-Nagant hanging on the wall less than 3' from my head.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 09:58 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 2098223) You are correct that decent .308s run upwards of $1K-$2K. CETME has a long and sordid history of build quality issues and the Century builds are especially notorious. Funny, the wikipedia page on that rifle used to abound with the most frequently encountered issues but they seem to have been edited out. A quick search for something along the lines of "CETME problems" will clue you in. It seems that a good, reliable (gun after gun after gun) CETME is going to be one of the older models and will put you right back up into the $1K-$2K territory. Century CETMEs appear to be very hit or miss and, imho, if you are going to run a very limited stock then the guns need to be choices that have outstanding reputations for reliability. PS I am a die-hard Made in USA kind of guy and I do tend to prefer my firearms to be as well but firearms are one of the few arenas where various other countries can provide exceptional quality and function and there should be no shame in sourcing them. Come to think of it all of my firearms are either USA made or heritage (my Browning is made by FN).
I agree that I don't want to sell junk. In that case, I'll probably go with the DPMS LAR10 308B. I've just heard that the AR platform was not designed for the constant recoil of the 7.62 NATO. DSA FAL would be my first choice, but I think it is out of reach for most people. I wish there was a better choice in the 700-900 range.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 09:59 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by desertjack (Post 2098217) That's exactly what the guy I'm talking about did, he started out just doing the transfers in his home and now he has a full shop with a customer base already familiar with him.
... this would also get me some experience with the book-keeping while I work toward getting the import contract.

3x3l3r8 | 12-28-2009 10:00 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I just came to say that I wish you well.

goldrad | 12-28-2009 10:02 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2098015) Wisconsin. I could sell the cans for the Mosquito, but I want to avoid anything that needs a tax stamp and special paperwork. One bad thing about my location is that I am on the Minnesota border, so it is a bit like a wall between me and a lot of potential customers. Maybe I could open a second store across the border in the future...
are there rules restricting rifle sales across the border? I thought just handgun?

desertjack | 12-28-2009 10:05 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2098234) ... this would also get me some experience with the book-keeping while I work toward getting the import contract.
He had a day job so he would do the transfers in the evening between 5 and 8 on week nights, he would simply arrange a time with you via email on when to show up to avoid overlap. This worked very well. Everytime I would stop by to pick something up there would be a guy leaving with his new toy, and then when I would be leaving somebody else would be arriving - there's $60 right there over a span of just 15 to 20 minutes.

ThomasJ1776 | 12-28-2009 10:09 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2098103) I don't think so. Most people I see walk into a gun store want the proprietor to help them select the right firearm. Here at GIM we are more likely to know what we want, but how often do threads even show up here - "Which gun should I buy?" I think I have enough good reasons to talk any person into buying any one of these 16 guns.
Youre exactly right. At Adventure Outdoors nead me(a huge place) I see so many people waiting in line just to talk to the guy about what they should buy. And he goes over the same things with them. Size, Weight, Concealability(if thats a word) Types of bullets, Purpose of the gun and cost. They have no idea. It'd be perfect for you. If you need a defense sidearm, as you said, the Glock 19 is the most basic yet single most purposeful sidearm to have. Rifles, if they want precesion go with the bolt, if they want ability to put rounds down range either AK or AR. And if you have them in just for them to feel and handle you could easily save them and yourself alot of time with a streamlined yet highly effective inventory. I'm getting on your bandwagon. Too bad I live in GA cuz I wanna help or check the place out.

FeS2 | 12-28-2009 10:15 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Hard to do this north of the border!

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 10:17 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Thomas, you are very encouraging! I, too, have found that people are more likely to act when presented with fewer choices. I do the homework and narrow it down to the best value -- I then sell them on my criteria.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 10:19 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by FeS2 (Post 2098265) Hard to do this north of the border!
Ironically, the guns I want to import are freely sold "north of the border", but not down here. The guys up north haven't done a good job of pricing / promoting them, and unfortunately the manufacturer is not internet saavy, so some great guns are not being embraced for what they are. I have the internet experience and knowledge of the American firearms market to make them a success in the USA, but I am expecting it to be hard to sell them on me because of my lack of experience in the gun trade.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 10:37 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2098233) I agree that I don't want to sell junk. In that case, I'll probably go with the DPMS LAR10 308B. I've just heard that the AR platform was not designed for the constant recoil of the 7.62 NATO. DSA FAL would be my first choice, but I think it is out of reach for most people. I wish there was a better choice in the 700-900 range.
... but the DSA STG-58 could probably be retailed for under $1,200. Still more than I'd like to charge for any firearm in my store.

ThomasJ1776 | 12-28-2009 10:47 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I would refrain from an FAL variant. They are cool, and the .308 is nice, but if and when any resistance starts there will be very few FAL variant types out there and uniformity will count at some point. If youre set on a .308 do the M14/M1A. Even that though is still very pricey if youre trying to stay away from that. personally if you were a cool guy I'd have no problem going to you knowing all you had were AK/AR variants. They are the meat and potatoes to all who think about being involved in any form of fighting. It could also be cool if you hang up A big copy of the Constitution and Declaration, maybe even give a pocket edition out with every firearm purchase.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 10:54 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store So, Thomas, maybe I should scrap Olympic Arms, go strictly with DPMS and include their LAR-308B in my offerings...

ThomasJ1776 | 12-28-2009 11:03 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2098340) So, Thomas, maybe I should scrap Olympic Arms, go strictly with DPMS and include their LAR-308B in my offerings...
Good idea as well. I would much rather buy a DPMS than an Oly Arms.

hoarder | 12-28-2009 11:13 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store There is an FFL transfer registry on gunbroker.com or one of their imitators. You could get on that list and any others you could find. In my area, there is only ONE dealer that actively seeks this kind of business. Getting the word out that you do cheap transfers would bring in a lot of business, IMO. Good luck SLV!

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 11:25 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store The more I think about it, the less I want to offer an AR pistol. I have never seen much utility for one especially since the recoil tube makes it cumbersome. I know the Kel-Tec PLR is much smaller, but I've owned several Kel-Tecs without being impressed by the feel of their actions or their ergonomics in general. I'm thinking that a person could always slide a Glock 33 rd magazine in the G19 if they really want more capacity.

low_five | 12-28-2009 11:33 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store We should keep in touch. Ive sent off for my FFL paperwork and am going to try to get my license too. Im going for quite a bit of a different approach, which is finding good deals on parts and assembling the guns myself to sell. for instance, I got a few of those 50 dollar lowers and Im going to assemble them into affordable ar15s, so I can undercut the other two places that sell that gun... one wont come down from 1300, and the other guy sells his for 900. Im going to try assembling ak's too. I would suggest to keep the pistol in your lineup if it is legal in your state, because its just a tax stamp away from being a registered short barrel rifle, and that appeals to a lot of people.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 11:44 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I've updated my "virtual store" in the first post to reflect the switch to DPMS and elimination of the CETME, Olympic Arms, and the AR pistol (which I really think is a worthless platform anyway). This makes the following changes: * Still 6 calibers and 9 manufacturers, but only 15 different models instead of 16 * Total estimated retail for one of each - $6,745.00

latitude22 | 12-28-2009 11:47 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store The big thing is being honest with delivery times and building a good reputation. I would much rather buy from a local guy willing to do some digging around when things are scarce, even if I find it supposedly in "stock" online, I'll wait the 3 or 4 weeks it takes him to get it for me because he's always done right by me so he's earned my patience and return business. When I ordered my Bushmaster Varminter he told me 6 months, 3 weeks later he called me and said he found it from another supplier, come pick it up when I get a chance! I really do think it can be done with limited inventory if you are willing to put in the time to establish the supplier connections, like I said I've personally seen it happen, when my guy started he wanted the FFL to get good deals on guns for himself and friends, now he's making a living at it and getting his own shop (also talking about getting a manufacturers license of some sort I don't know the details).

mick silver | 12-28-2009 11:51 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store there better ways at making money without having the law fu/k you more then they have to .. i have two friends who own gun shops there waiting on the day they come an close the doors .... government not the best ways to make a living unless you know all the laws and rules an the change like the weather

PastTense | 12-28-2009 11:57 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Have you thought about doing gun shows instead of a retail location?

mayhem | 12-29-2009 12:19 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I'v been holding off on posting this, but here goes. A good friend opened a retail store with the focus on "Tactical" weapons and accessory. Pumped 150K into it. We all started buying from him because nobody else stocked tactical stuff. Well it wasn't long before the LEO's started just dropping in making friendly chat. Soon there was one in there every open hour. Most of us don't really want the local LEO's knowing what we are buying, so we had to stop going there. I mean in the beginning we would gather and have some great stories to share while sitting on pallets of ammo. Bottom line the LEO's will drive off your customers and try to trick you into screwing up. That said, I don't know your area, but as soon as you go 'Tactical" only the oinkers appear like they want to buy something from you. Good luck my friend. :ok:

Libertytree | 12-29-2009 01:51 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store What about used guns? Ammo? What about offering the Kel-tek Sub2000 line, it's interchangeable with mags of different calibers for hand guns. I do like your marketing angle and oddly enough because it is across the street from the cop shop.

luft97 | 12-29-2009 02:06 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Hmm, it sounds like your setting yourself up for failure in a retail setting <SLV>. To do well you need an inventory (or at least be able to order what someone wants) and I can say that of your selection you plan to offer I would only be interested in 2 of your selections (I already own them both) limiting manufacturers is silly in a retail setting. I think you might look into doing gun shows if you want limited dealings with manufacturers. Although, if you do decide to ramble ahead with the retail idea as you have it now, may I suggest the name "Take it or Leave it Armory"? At least this way you won't waste their time or yours. :biggrin: PS: Where are the Samurai swords? (If you are curious why I asked this question look here: http://goldismoney.info/forums/showt...ghlight=swords) You need to give your customers the option of having a means of defending themselves when the feds come around to collect all the weapons. :wink:

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milehi | 12-29-2009 03:21 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store The non gun people who happen to own guns, that I know, were steered towards Winchester Defenders and some sort of revolver when they went shopping without someone in the know; almost exclusivly. Just saying. Good luck in your venture.

oboshoe | 12-29-2009 03:35 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I like guns and I love to see more gun stores opening. But it sounds like you are more interested in making a political statement than running a business. Now thats cool and I like the political statements - especially the ones I agree with ;). But political statements don't automatically pay the bills. My advice is simple. Make all the political hay you want..just make damn sure you have the business end covered. If you aren't selling enough stuff (like accessories) to keep the lights on, then you won't have a political statement OR a business for very long. Best of luck.

Patriotme | 12-29-2009 05:16 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I would shop at your store for those specific firearms but I have to tell you that in the past year I've bought a Springfield XDM, two M4's and a Ruger 10/22. You would have only gotten about $200 of my money out of the thousands I spent this year with your selection. It doesn't matter what your Glock prices are. I wanted a Springfield and that's what I bought. The same is true of my M4's. I looked at DPMS and bought another brand that I preferred. Nothing is wrong with Glock or DPMS but that's not what I wanted. I had a few guns in my collection that rarely got shot so I traded and sold several guns this year to help buy the new stuff. As you aren't carrying .40's would you take .40 calibers in trade? Nope? You would have lost a sale if I was your customer. I think that your best bet for success with this business plan is to advertise heavily in your state. You will have to bring people in from a couple of hours away and they will only come that far if they know what they want to buy. You do not have a varied enough selection to bring people in that want to browse unless they are very close by. I remember when a Bass Pro Shops opened up 100 miles from my town. My Dad and I checked them out on a off day. Their reputation was enough to get us on the road just to look. Your selection is not going to bring people in unless they are willing to buy right then and there. Advertise very heavily if these are the only guns you are selling. Your idea seems to be kind of like those that open a boutique shop. They have a small selection of very elite merchandise that is kind of rare and expensive. You've gone in the opposite direction and picked common merchandise with good pricing. You'll sell a lot of Glocks but I don't think you'll move enough to stay open. If I were your competitor I would price my merchandise at or near your prices and make up my lower profitts on other stuff. Let's look at those that love .45's. They are going to walk out of your shop in a huff and tell everyone that your store is no good. The same is true for those looking for a 2" .38 Special for concealed carry. This is going to cost you a lot of customers in the long run. Reputation is everything and it may not be fair but your reputation will suffer if you snub some gun niches. I like your idea and I like your prices but I don't think this idea will work with this selection. You would really have to keep your overhead low and I think you would be much better off just working the gun shows with the selection that you have. See what guns really move and what doesn't. Spend a year working on your selection before opening a store. I think you will be giving up a lot of sales with the current selection. For example, what do you have for concealed carry? What do you have for the ladies with weak or small hands? Some have a hard time with fat hi capacity autos. Some have a hard time racking the slide. What about law enforcement? Most don't carry 9mm anymore. You'll probably give up some law enforcement sales by only carrying 9mm. I wish you all the success in the world. You seem to want to be fair to your customers and offer a good service. I just don't think that your current business plan would work. Imagine a barber shop that only gives 4 kinds of haircuts or a furniture store with 5 choices of sofas. I believe that your only real chance of making this work is to let everyone know exactly what you have and for how much. I don't know what advertising would cost you but you would need to advertise everywhere to get the customer base in that you need. Good luck.

Patriotme | 12-29-2009 05:47 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I went back and read through the posts again. I don't think you've put enough thought into your plan. You said that you can get a small shop across from a police station for $200 per month but you didn't list what insurance, utilities, etc will cost you. Are you going to have to modify the building with steel shutters a security door and an alarm system? What will this cost if it's necessary? You will end up paying more than $200 per month. How many guns will you need to sell per month to stay in the black? How many months can you go without meeting that goal? You have a police station very close by. Are they going to be good customers or is there nothing in your shop for them? Law enforcement discounts? Your margins are looking pretty thin already but like old people and AARP discounts I believe that LEOs often expect discounts and will go elsewhere if they don't get it. Is seeing 3 patrol cars in front of your business going to drive some people away? I know many people that do not want a cop standing over their should while they are buying guns. It's not that they are felons it's just that they don't really know the gun laws and honestly....no one wants a cop standing over their shoulder anyway. How many out there enjoy having a patrol car behind you as you drive down the highway? You say that you are right on the border and don't know if you can sell certain guns across state lines? Come on man, do some research before starting a new business. You are already talking about opening a second store across the border without knowing if one will work. If you cannot sell handguns across state lines and you are on the border then you really cut into your potential customer base. You are a big picture kind of guy. Bring in a detail geek if you can. The FFL transfers for $20 (or even a bit more) are a good idea. I've sold a few guns to friends over the years and would like to have done the paperwork (not required though in my state). Most of the local stores don't want to mess with transfers. I think you should work the gun shows for a while. Build a loyal customer base, advertise heavily and refine your stock. There's a couple of dealers at my local gunshows that are known for always having the best prices. They always have a line when the show comes to town. Be that guy. They do have the best prices but the owner is a dick. I'll pay $20 more from the guy at the next table just so I don't deal with the dick. Of course I will quote that guy's prices when haggling with the other dealer. Something to think about. I thought I'd bring that up as you mentioned the "Soup Nazi" take it or leave sales approach. Be cool. Your customer may want a Kimber right now but next year he might be in the market for that Glock 19. Have you thought about some kind of hook to get people into your store (again)? I know, your prices should be your hook but your selection is limited so you'll need something to bring them back. Good prices and great customer service is a must but there's probably other shops with that in your area. Perhaps an AR build class on a slow night or 2 free cleanings with every gun purchase would work (I know people that have no idea how to clean their home defense guns and don't even have a kit). Perhaps an inexpensive cleaning could bring in a few dollars as well. My local range does this. You get the idea. Bring those customers back again and again even though they have all of the Glocks and DPMS's that they need. Good luck to you. I hope that in a year or two you are known far and wide as a fair and successful gun dealer.

AG Capone | 12-29-2009 06:13 AM
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brewer | 12-29-2009 07:15 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store SLV, There is an ongoing discussion about this topic at this gun website, thehighroad.org...It's on page 2 general discussion forum. Good luck with this business endeavor. Also, if your store develops I can offer some advice about signs, my wife and I have been in the sign biz for 25+ years

MOD1 | 12-29-2009 09:07 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store SLV, I don't mean to discourage you, but the margins on guns, equipment and supplies can be razor thin. Let me chine in and add something to Mayhem's comment about LEOs. Many LEOs are notoriously cheap and expect the "LEO Discount" at the drop of a hat. You already know you are opening the privacy door to at least one federal alphabet agency simply by having a business dealing in firearms. Lets see what happens when a rogue LEO doesn't get that "LEO Discount" they think they deserve by simply walking in the door. Take care, Mod1

farscott | 12-29-2009 09:34 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Something to consider: Most gun stores make most of their profit by selling used guns that they purchased from private individuals and resell. Most gun stores will offer 2/3 of the price they can get for reselling a used gun. So, if a used revolver will sell for $300, the dealer will offer $200 to a private seller. That allows a 50% profit on the used gun sale. In addition, turning the inventory quickly is a big requirement. You have got to keep guns moving out the door. The profit margins on new guns are very, very small, especially when you consider minimum quantity orders. I was once told by a dealer that he would not even bother to stock new guns if new guns were not required to get people in the door.

<SLV> | 12-29-2009 09:46 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I was thinking some more about this last night, and perhaps what I could do (without actually having a store front) would be to process transfers primarily, but also shop around for exceptional deals, buy a large enough lot to get a good discount, then advertise the single item (primarily to my transfer customers) until it is gone. This way I could just focus on selling one highly desirable item at an exceptional price. I could also offer a "broker service" where I would locate the best deal on a very specific item the customer is looking for.

<SLV> | 12-29-2009 09:48 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer (Post 2098762) SLV, There is an ongoing discussion about this topic at this gun website, thehighroad.org...It's on page 2 general discussion forum. Good luck with this business endeavor. Also, if your store develops I can offer some advice about signs, my wife and I have been in the sign biz for 25+ years
Thanks! I'm a member there, and I found the thread. I've got a thread going in "Legal" right now about getting my FFL to import/deal.

State of Jefferson | 12-29-2009 11:27 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2097898) BACK UP CONCEALED - North American Arms Holster Grip mini-revolver - $205 http://www.naaminis.com/pix/hg1t.jpg
More of a toy than a serious firearm. Better than nothing? Sure. But if you've got a wacko determined to hurt you, that ain't gonna stop him. And in non-expert hands, it's easy to have an "accidental" discharge. Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2097898) SUPPRESSED - Sig Sauer Mosquito Tactical Threaded - $355http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/cata...B-detail-L.jpg
Junk. The Mosquito is an exception to the rule that SIG Sauer makes quality tools. Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2097898) 5.56 NATO
California is a huge firearms market, despite the faggy "laws." You should offer something that is legal here, either an OLL or the Kel-Tec SU-16. Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2097898) AK-47 CARBINE - New USA built Century International Arms in black synthetic - $400 http://www.centuryarms.biz/images/Ri...L_RI1515-N.jpg
Any quality issues with the CIA store-brand products? I haven't heard much about them. Also, while 7.62x39 arms may be offered, weapons in common US military calibers (.223/5.56 or .308/7.62x51) are much preferred for obvious reasons. Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2097898) 12 GAUGE TACTICAL SEMI-AUTO - Mossberg 930 SPX Tactical - $630 http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/i...1/58/58489.jpg DEFENSIVE PISTOL GRIP PUMP - Mossberg 500 Cruiser Tactical - $340 http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/i...1/54/54553.jpg
You need to offer a real shotgun, not these tacticool models. A regular, black/synthetic Mossberg (500 or 930 SPX) or Remington with standard-shape stock. Most people can't handle the pistol grip, nor is it needed. Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2097898) 9mm OFFICIAL ISSUE PATRIOT SIDEARM - Glock 19 - $550 http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/i...1/73/73204.jpg
Uh, how about an American firearm for "patriots"? And, while I'm no 1911 cheerleader, you should offer one to the many who have legitimate preference for it. Stocking only a limited selection is perfectly fine, but you should emphasize you can and will order anything a customer wants! For example, a wooden/"traditional" stock on shotguns.

hoarder | 12-29-2009 11:46 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by farscott (Post 2098878) Something to consider: Most gun stores make most of their profit by selling used guns that they purchased from private individuals and resell. Most gun stores will offer 2/3 of the price they can get for reselling a used gun. So, if a used revolver will sell for $300, the dealer will offer $200 to a private seller. That allows a 50% profit on the used gun sale. In addition, turning the inventory quickly is a big requirement. You have got to keep guns moving out the door.
Around here, the sporting goods stores have "consignment" guns. Although it doesn't tie up capital, it uses up display case space and the margin is less.

<SLV> | 12-29-2009 12:00 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Man... I love all of the criticism! That's what I need... keeps me on my toes... helps me sharpen my focus. Keep it coming!

<SLV> | 12-29-2009 12:06 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I read over at THR that in order to get the best deals from manufacturers you have to be a "Master Dealer" and that means carrying an extensive product line of their offerings. Maybe I would be better off focusing on certain quality manufacturers as my primary filtering criterion rather than using caliber as my primary criterion. I could be an official "DPMS / MOSSBERG / GLOCK / RUGER / SAVAGE / CENTURY" dealer, and offer the variety each of these manufacturers provide. Another good comment on THR was to avoid brands that Wally-world always undersells the competition. Such as Mossberg ATR-100, Savage Stevens, and Ruger 10-22. One person commented that a better gun store would have highly unusual (exotic) offerings in stock at larger margins for a classier clientele. Or, maybe I could aim to be the local provider to county / municipal LEOs -- even the LEO/only equipment.

wallew | 12-29-2009 12:43 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store SLV, I have a votech degree in gunsmithing. We've met. Retail sales of firearms is a cut throat business. MOST places consider themselves lucky if their markup is 3%. And that's right now when firearms sales are at record levels. Eventually this demand will drop off and sales will crater for a while (Hey, it goes up, it WILL come back down). And if you DON'T have the inventory, at least right now, folks with big bucks to spend will thank you for your time and go to the guy that DOES have it in stock. They will cry over the price they paid, but they will walk out WITH a firearm, ammo, etc (if that's legally possible in your state - ie no waiting periods). Sorry, but I'm one of the few people you will find that have money in hand and are willing to wait six weeks for a set of Glocks (sequentially numbered). So, unless you can afford to have SOME stock in hand, it's going to be difficult. And dealing with manufacturers (sometimes even their wholesalers) can be a real pain. For example, you don't show any H&K firearms. GOOD. You will have to spend at least $10k on firearms in stock and another $10k in parts before they will allow you to be an H&K dealer. Others are not quite as extreme, but there are other hoops to jump through other than JUST the BATF. Almost ten years ago I almost bought a really nice gun shop (Cal's Sporting Armory). The guy specialized in H&K firearms. He was the 'west of the Mississippi' guy to go to for H&K firearms, parts and accessories. He had a nice clientelle built up, both internet and brick and mortar. He was getting out (he and his dad bought a Discount Tire store - EVERYBODY has a car). His shop was priced right, as he was only asking for the costs he had in inventory. No 'good will' charges and he was throwing in all the fixtures for free. He didn't even offer gunsmithing, which is what made this a viable option for ME. But you know what stopped me? I went to a banker my wife knows and we discussed it all. He said the numbers looked good. He felt I had a 'value' to add (ie my gunsmithing services) which would increase the overall value of the business. But at the very end he asked me two questions that stopped me dead in my tracks. 1) ARE YOU BUYING YOURSELF A PAYCHECK? This basically means, are you borrowing money that you WILL repay monthly and still have a paycheck. Is this just a way to put money in your pocket by borrowing it and paying it back in dollars that are worth less? This question is valid, though right now you won't find nearly as many banks willing to loan money, even on viable business sales. 2) WHO ARE YOU GOING TO SELL THIS BUSINESS TO IN THE LONG RUN? This is the one that killed the deal for me. Understand I was going to put my house up for collateral (no problem there) and I KNOW I could have made better money than the guy who owned the shop did. But realize that Bill Clinton was president at that time. I could see that in the future, owning a gun store might be one of those businesses that was closed down by the government. So I passed. Also realize that the 'kitchen table' gun dealer is a thing of the past. The BATF has closed down over 8000 of said gun dealers. These days, if you want to sell guns via an FFL (the only LEGAL choice right now - except C&R - which is really issued for you to be only a collector, not a gun dealer) the BATF will pretty much insist you have a brick and mortar location. It must meet all zoning laws (how close are you to a school), if you do gunsmithing you must meet all EPA laws, and then you have the JOY of listening to armchair commando's tell you WHY your choices of firearms SUX. And now that I've thrown water all over this idea (I gave my idea of owning a gunshop up for the reasons listed above - and several not listed above, like I didn't WANT to work 90+ hours a week, worry about what new government law would shut me down, etc) I'll also make a couple of minor suggestions. 1) Make a choice of selling either low cost firearms or high cost firearms. Leave the 'middle of the road' stuff to everyone else. VERY little markup in the middle of the road. And the business there is cut throat. 2) AK Draco - good choice - get the Romanian made one IMPORTED through Century. DO NOT BUY THEIR STUFF. To many issues to deal with, mainly in the past, but WHY buy something that you might have to send back. 3) Glock - while I understand the choice of weapon, you are limiting yourself to the WRONG weapon. Go with the Glock 22. It's the .40 S&W model. Your customer wants a 9mm? NO PROBLEM SIR. I can sell you a drop in 9mm barrel and two 9mm GLOCK mags for an additional $150 and NOW you have a firearm that will handle the TWO most popular calibers used by law enforcement. And for a mere $130 you can add a third caliber - .357 sig and use the .40 caliber mags. Then you would have a pistol that would fire the three most popular calibers used by law enforcement. All from one handgun. The Glock 9mm will NOT handle the .40 S&W. I asked Glock. THEY told me to go with the G22 and work down to 9mm if I just had to. 4) WAY too many .22's. Limit you choices to one hand gun (I LOVE THE MOSQUITO BTW) and one long gun (most will say Ruger, but I disagree because as the barrel heats up, point of impact changes). Here's the lowly 'Feather USA Arm' company. ONE gun. Will shoot six calibers. Uses Glock mags for some of them. http://www.guns-rifles-firearms.com/ Just some thoughts.

Patriotme | 12-30-2009 05:50 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store You mentioned in an earlier post that you are currently out of work. I have to ask. How long can you go without a paycheck? It may take a while before your gun store turns a proffit. The economy sucks and many are saying that gun prices are dropping (I've seen a slight drop) now after a year or more of panic buying. Can you ride out another year of trying to get a new business off of the ground? Can you afford to get your name out to all of your customers? You have missed the Christmas buying season, hunting season and a good part of the Obama fear buying. Tax Return season is coming up in a few months and after that it will be normal buying until hunting season rolls around again. Expect a few lean months and prepare for them. Just out of curiosity, why do you want to start off with a small store instead of simply working the gun shows as your business starts?

TTAZZMAN | 12-30-2009 12:43 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I have been watching this thread .....discussing guns to sell etc... while that conversation is quite entertaining as everyone has a opinion it really is minimal to what is required to set up and maintain a viable and prosperous business I would NEVER discourage someone trying to get into business but here are a FEW things to think about and consider #1 -you need a viable business plan- you wont be able to borrow etc without it #2 you need to know what is involved in setting up a business/corporation ( i would subjest a brief visit with a accountant and lawyer) #3 it might be good to consider a partner that is experienced in business and in the field your wanting to get into (gun sales)(partners can be very good or very bad always keep that in mind)(also might consider a angel investor) #4 talk to your insurance agent (insurance is your #2 overhead cost behind payroll)(most people dont have a clue on this) #5 learn and study the Government requirements for your business IE. FFL, Liscences, Etc and the anual costs and reqirements to keep those in force #6 building a viable prosperous business can be one the most self fulfilling things you do in life people do it every day just do your homework General advice.....start small and within your capabilities...avoid debt if you can...business are people/service oriented (they can always find a better deal on the internet)......plan on working your arse off :emotions16:

<SLV> | 12-30-2009 03:30 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotme (Post 2100286) You mentioned in an earlier post that you are currently out of work. I have to ask. How long can you go without a paycheck? It may take a while before your gun store turns a proffit. The economy sucks and many are saying that gun prices are dropping (I've seen a slight drop) now after a year or more of panic buying. Can you ride out another year of trying to get a new business off of the ground? Can you afford to get your name out to all of your customers? You have missed the Christmas buying season, hunting season and a good part of the Obama fear buying. Tax Return season is coming up in a few months and after that it will be normal buying until hunting season rolls around again. Expect a few lean months and prepare for them. Just out of curiosity, why do you want to start off with a small store instead of simply working the gun shows as your business starts?
The BATF is real clear that you cannot get an FFL strictly for gun shows. You must have a "premises" where you have "regular hours" (even if only a couple hours a day) and where you will display your FFL on the wall where the business is transacted. Just down the road from me one mile is a small shop called "Ammo and Camo." It is hunting and reloading equipment, and the owner is a friend of my wife's family. I'm planning on talking to him to see if I can rent a corner to set up a desk and start out by doing transfers and special acquisitions. I think together we could generate synergy, and I would be able to keep my overhead VERY low. I wouldn't even have to stock anything regularly except for maybe a monthly special buy.

<SLV> | 12-30-2009 03:32 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store BTW... I have started two sucessful business in unrelated fields, so I have some experience with business plans and calculating overhead / margins / etc. However, my wife things I always go into my plans way too optimistically. That's why I need all of the criticism in this thread to ground me!

TTAZZMAN | 12-30-2009 04:37 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2100958) BTW... I have started two sucessful business in unrelated fields, so I have some experience with business plans and calculating overhead / margins / etc. However, my wife things I always go into my plans way too optimistically. That's why I need all of the criticism in this thread to ground me!
Your wife is probably correct, nothing wrong with reasonable optimizum Think the best plan for the worst I didnt realize you had been down the business road before my apolgys for redundant information, but i think you would agree if you had not been in business before the posted information is critical and maybe it will help someone else.

wallew | 12-30-2009 07:33 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store SLV, Before going for it, I would attend EVERY gunshow within a 500 mile radius for AT LEAST the next three months. Six months would be better. From that, you will KNOW who is operating in your area, what your competition is (trust me, most gun show sellers ARE your competition), and THEN revisit this in say April or July. If you can just hang on for a while, you will have a much fuller picture of what you are going up against in your area. Good luck. This business is cut throat in good times.

<SLV> | 12-30-2009 07:41 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 2101053) Your wife is probably correct, nothing wrong with reasonable optimizum Think the best plan for the worst I didnt realize you had been down the business road before my apolgys for redundant information, but i think you would agree if you had not been in business before the posted information is critical and maybe it will help someone else.
No problem -- I didn't really say much about my business experience. Starting any business is a daunting task, and plan as you may, you can never be ready for everything you will encounter. Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 2101289) SLV, Before going for it, I would attend EVERY gunshow within a 500 mile radius for AT LEAST the next three months. Six months would be better. From that, you will KNOW who is operating in your area, what your competition is (trust me, most gun show sellers ARE your competition), and THEN revisit this in say April or July. If you can just hang on for a while, you will have a much fuller picture of what you are going up against in your area. Good luck. This business is cut throat in good times.
Thanks, Wallew. Too bad we couldn't get together and go shooting at Pawnee before I moved away! I was planning on shopping all of the local shops just to see who is dealing in which manufacturers. I think my best bet would be to try to reach a different clientele rather than trying to compete on price/service as a new-comer. I have one friend who is an AVID gun collector (truly a nut), and I know he drives 90 miles to his favorite gun store. I'll have to go see what they are doing right.

TUMS | 12-31-2009 12:30 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store No way I would even consider this in todays political climate. I hope you keep flawless records. You also better choose your building wisely. I have a friend that has a gun shop on 19th ave. in Phoenix. Robbers have driven a car straight through the glass at the front of his buisness. He ended up having to put concrete baricades out front. He also spent big bucks for cameras and security sensors on the roof.

Quixote2 | 12-31-2009 12:47 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store You may choose to limit your inventory. The customer is always right, offer to order anything the customer wants with 50% cash advance.

wallew | 12-31-2009 04:48 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by TUMS (Post 2102402) No way I would even consider this in todays political climate. I hope you keep flawless records. You also better choose your building wisely. I have a friend that has a gun shop on 19th ave. in Phoenix. Robbers have driven a car straight through the glass at the front of his buisness. He ended up having to put concrete baricades out front. He also spent big bucks for cameras and security sensors on the roof.
What TUMS said. There was a guy 'Dave' who owned Daves Guns. He was right across a breezeway to my Vet in a strip mall. So whenever we took our dogs in, I always stopped in. One day I went by and there were new 4 inch diameter steel poles filled with concrete - four poles at one end of the breezeway and four poles at the other end. This came about because somebody drove a car THROUGH A WALL. That wall was in (you guessed it) the breezeway. Just one more fun thing about owning a gunshop. SLV, at least you have the temperment to own a shop. Every gun shop owner I know is VERY opinionated. THAT'S A GOOD THING. Know your product, know your customers and their wants. But you would be better off buying and selling used cars than guns. EVERBODY OWNS A CAR. Or wants to. A lot less hassles (or at least there used to be anyway).

morganchaser | 12-31-2009 06:39 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Most important thing is to only take in the advise you like and not get discouraged by the negative advise. Second most important thing is to incorporate the business, and have the rent paid by a child LLC who will be your landloard. That way if some moron holds up your store and you paint the walls with him: you don't lose the farm to the lawsuit. Selection I'm interested in: More Curio & Relics. Specifically: Mosin Nagant, CZ-82, CZ-52, 1895 Nagant, Makarov, Walther PPK clones, Walther PPK. Can you sell parts kits? If so: UZI & PPS43 Ruger LCP/Kel Tec Pocket Pistols A couple of small pocket revolvers A .357 Magnum Saiga 12 A lever action carbine. More AK variety Walther P22(2nd Generation) + Walther P99 Ammunition: 7.62x25mm; 9x18makarov; 7.62 Nagant; 5.45x39 I do 90% of my shopping with classic arms as you can probably tell.

Ag_man | 12-31-2009 07:49 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store My main guy runs a gun store out of his home. Appointments by reservation only. <SLV>, is this what you're thinking about? http://www.kapguns.com/KAP_Guns_Home_Page.php He doesn't have the lowest prices by any means, but that's OK with me and has a limited inventory, again that's OK too. He concentrates on customer service and that's exactly what I want! Anyone in the Rockford, IL area should give him a call.

TUMS | 12-31-2009 08:13 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Lots of gun shop owners are really taking advantage of the internet these days. With hundreds of listings on gunbroker & gunsamerica. They also have a booth at almost every major gun show. I would go that route before I tried to open a physical store. Or do like Ag Man says and try and run it out of your home. My favorite gunsmith/TC builder runs the whole show out of a shop at his home in Gilbert, AZ. http://www.mygunroom.com/dvgunshop/

Mill Man | 01-01-2010 03:48 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store My biggest complaints with my local gunshops are 1. Magazines. I buy a $1300 firearm and they don't have spare mags for sale let alone at a reasonable price. If I spend over 1k for a MBR I want a minimum of 10 mags for it. Same with my springfield XD, which a local shop had a few mags for at $33 a piece plus 9.X% local sales tax when I can catch them on sale at midway for <$25. Second major complaint is ammo. Again, if I spend $1300 on a MBR I want to be able to buy 1k+ of decent plinking ammo at a decent price. Another suggestion, push the culture. Firearms safety courses, hunters education courses, the nearest tactical training center (thunder ranch type etc.) Let people know whats available and whats out there. You don't even have to be a salesman about it, just present the info.

specsaregood | 01-01-2010 04:41 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by TUMS (Post 2103022) Lots of gun shop owners are really taking advantage of the internet these days. With hundreds of listings on gunbroker & gunsamerica. They also have a booth at almost every major gun show. I would go that route before I tried to open a physical store.
Besides the issue that SLV said that the BATF requires a physical location with set hours....IIRC SLV has children. Aren't most gunshows on weekends? Doing this could potentially require him to be on the road travelling or busy and away from his kids during their freetime.

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Patriotme | 01-01-2010 05:59 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by TUMS (Post 2102402) No way I would even consider this in todays political climate. I hope you keep flawless records. You also better choose your building wisely. I have a friend that has a gun shop on 19th ave. in Phoenix. Robbers have driven a car straight through the glass at the front of his buisness. He ended up having to put concrete baricades out front. He also spent big bucks for cameras and security sensors on the roof.
We had a bunch of robberies in my area over the last year and a half. It seems like every gun store in the area has been hit. One had a truck driven through a cindberblock wall. One had 4 guys with guns rob them at opening and another one was robbed over closing hours. That's all I can remember off of the top of my head. The concrete barricades are a good idea.

TUMS | 01-01-2010 08:18 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotme (Post 2103415) We had a bunch of robberies in my area over the last year and a half. It seems like every gun store in the area has been hit. One had a truck driven through a cindberblock wall. One had 4 guys with guns rob them at opening and another one was robbed over closing hours. That's all I can remember off of the top of my head. The concrete barricades are a good idea.
Yeah it's really bad, and it will only get worse as the economy goes. Owning a gun shop is a business I wouldn't want to be in. There's a kid that works behind the counter at the Phoenix store, he almost got his head blown off by a robber with a shotgun. He was walking next door to get some change when the robber came up behind him. He caught some BB's and had to go to the hospital, but I guess he is mostly OK. I can't believe he still works there. I wouldn't.

TUMS | 01-01-2010 08:35 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by specsaregood (Post 2103397) Besides the issue that SLV said that the BATF requires a physical location with set hours....IIRC SLV has children. Aren't most gunshows on weekends? Doing this could potentially require him to be on the road travelling or busy and away from his kids during their freetime.
That's for him to figure out. I would think owning a full time gun store would probably take away from time with his kids also. Anyway, to do any of this right takes LOTS of money. Maybe as an individual he can sell a certain amount of guns every year on Gunbroker.com? I don't know what the requirements are. I've only bought things, never sold anything.

meatman | 01-01-2010 11:03 AM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store I just would not open one up now only because lately the gun shops have been ghost towns. the only ones making money now are the one's that have shooting ranges.

hystckndle | 01-01-2010 01:18 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by meatman (Post 2103617) I just would not open one up now only because lately the gun shops have been ghost towns. the only ones making money now are the one's that have shooting ranges.
Ditto the meatman,:15_1_70v: Ranges are where it is at. Kinda like the % profit in a drink at McD's Way more points. Regards, Haystackneedle

<SLV> | 01-01-2010 02:30 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 2102990) My main guy runs a gun store out of his home. Appointments by reservation only. <SLV>, is this what you're thinking about? http://www.kapguns.com/KAP_Guns_Home_Page.php He doesn't have the lowest prices by any means, but that's OK with me and has a limited inventory, again that's OK too. He concentrates on customer service and that's exactly what I want! Anyone in the Rockford, IL area should give him a call.
Looks similar to what I was thinking. Except I would stock only a limited number of highly desirable items -- Things I love to see in local shops but seldom find. One more thing I'm thinking about... making my own CNC billet AR lowers. I have a family member with a CNC shop. I've talking with him about partnering in making AR lowers. I could then build them out and sell them, or just sell them stripped. We've been brainstorming on minor improvements, but I think the AR lower has probably been improved to death. We've talked about titanium and stainless steel, incorporating trigger guards, etc. Are AR lowers easy to find nowadays? What would you like to see in the "perfect" AR lower? Do you think there is still market room for a new manufacturer?

Ag_man | 01-01-2010 02:39 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by meatman (Post 2103617) I just would not open one up now only because lately the gun shops have been ghost towns. the only ones making money now are the one's that have shooting ranges.
I don't know if they're the only ones making money. but the one gun shop in my area that has an indoor pistol range, is always busy. Prior to deer season, there is a lot of traffic in all gun shops around here. Probably more lookers than buyers.

Patriotme | 01-01-2010 06:07 PM
Re: I'm thinking about opening a firearms store Quote:
Originally Posted by meatman (Post 2103617) I just would not open one up now only because lately the gun shops have been ghost towns. the only ones making money now are the one's that have shooting ranges.
There's one gun store in my area (actually it's in the a$$ end of nowhere 50 minutes away) that is slam full every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. They do a lot of business and it's not even worth it to browse on a weekend. There is a mob 3 deep at the counter. Of course they've been around for decades and are known for having a good selection and knowledgable people. Most of the other local stores seem to be doing average business. Most however sell other stuff than guns. One store caters to LEO and has all of the appropriate doo dads. The rest sell a lot of hunting and fishing gear. Reputation can make you or break you.

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