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- - Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=306289)

Big_Rob | 09-27-2008 12:56 PM
Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner http://www.reason.com http://www.reason.com/news/show/128973.html http://reason.com/media/images/logo2.gif Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owners Why Obama is vulnerable on the Second Amendment Jacob Sullum | September 24, 2008 Last spring, after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to arms, Democrats hoped the decision would neutralize the gun issue. Instead the ruling, by inviting debate over which kinds of gun control are constitutional, has made the issue more salient. That's bad news for Barack Obama, who the National Rifle Association says "would be the most anti-gun president in American history." The Democratic nominee pays lip service to Second Amendment rights while calling for "commonsense," "reasonable" restrictions. But Obama's sense of what's reasonable, while common among the left-liberal politicians and activists inside his comfort zone, may seem decidedly unreasonable to the pro-gun voters the NRA is trying to mobilize against him. Since these voters made a decisive difference in the 2000 presidential election and arguably in 2004 as well, this is a threat Obama ignores at his peril. The NRA plans to spend $15 million urging voters in battleground states of the Midwest and Mountain West to "Defend Freedom" and "Defeat Obama." Meanwhile, the Obama campaign is running radio spots in swing states such as Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia that promise "Barack Obama and John McCain will both make sure we keep our guns." Although Factcheck.org faults the NRA for distorting Obama's record, every falsifiable claim in its TV spots has a factual basis. In one ad, a Virginia hunter complains that Obama supports "a huge new tax on my guns and ammo," referring to a position Obama took in 1999. He adds that the Illinois senator voted to "ban virtually all deer-hunting ammunition," a reference to his 2005 vote for a federal ban on rifle ammunition "designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability," phrasing that arguably covered deer-hunting ammunition. Finally, the hunter complains that Obama wants to ban shotguns and rifles used for hunting, alluding to his support for reinstating the federal "assault weapon" ban. That law arbitrarily prohibited firearms based mainly on cosmetic features that made them look scary to gun-na�ve politicians. In another NRA ad, an Iraq war veteran from Wisconsin complains that "Barack Obama opposes my right to own a handgun for self-defense." In a 1996 questionnaire, Obama's state Senate campaign said he supported a handgun ban. Today Obama says that was a mistake, but the questionnaire bears his handwriting, so he clearly saw it without changing the supposedly erroneous answer. As a state legislator, Obama voted against a bill shielding people who use handguns for self-defense in their homes from prosecution for violating local gun registration rules. Most tellingly, Obama has repeatedly expressed support for local handgun bans such as the District of Columbia's, which the Supreme Court overturned, and Chicago's, which faces a constitutional challenge. "What works in Chicago may not work in Cheyenne," Obama says. The line, meant to reassure gun owners, highlights his peculiar view that the extent of an American's constitutional rights depends on where he lives. The specifics of Obama's views may turn out to be less important than the sense that he's an urban sophisticate who is unfamiliar with firearms and does not even understand the gun control laws he supports. In a 2004 debate, Obama explained the rationale for the "assault weapon" ban this way: "Unless you're seeing a lot of deer out there wearing bullet-proof vests, then there is no purpose for many of the guns." He thereby conflated the "assault weapon" and "armor-piercing bullet" issues, apparently not realizing that ordinary hunting ammunition can penetrate "bullet-proof vests." The NRA ads seek to reinforce the impression of Obama's cluelessness. "Where is this guy from?" asks the hunter. "He's probably never been hunting a day in his life." Two of the ads allude to Obama's notorious comment that working-class voters in Pennsylvania and the Midwest "get bitter" during hard economic times and "cling to guns or religion." What will Obama cling to when voters question his commitment to the Second Amendment? � Copyright by Creators Syndicate Inc.

goldgun | 09-27-2008 03:35 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner This is the reason I have to drag myself to the polls and vote for McCain. I do not want Obama deciding who the next three supreme court justices will be. I do not agree with McCain but I believe he will appoint better supreme court justices. Now I will put my flame suit on.

mtnman | 09-27-2008 05:16 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by goldgun (Post 1317015) This is the reason I have to drag myself to the polls and vote for McCain. I do not want Obama deciding who the next three supreme court justices will be. I do not agree with McCain but I believe he will appoint better supreme court justices. Now I will put my flame suit on.
No reason to get flamed over this...You are doing the right thing. While McCain is NOT the best choice for President he IS the one that will appoint conservative judges. That alone is reason eoungh to vote for him. Besides, he may die in office and that would make Palin President, which may be a good thing!

goldgun | 09-27-2008 06:32 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner I think Palin will get in Washington and clean house. I just hope McCain takes the reigns off of her. Let her be herself and Obama/Biden will be looking for a new job.

Brent | 09-27-2008 07:35 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner I'd have to agree. If I vote it will be for McCain I simply cannot bring myself to vote for a liberal especially with a gun stance like that.

Mike_Templar | 09-27-2008 07:38 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent (Post 1317334) I'd have to agree. If I vote it will be for McCain I simply cannot bring myself to vote for a liberal especially with a gun stance like that.
+1 can't say it any better.

Agamemnon | 09-27-2008 07:41 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner I refuse to endorse the one party corpgov system by voting. McCain was the Keating Five ring leader ... non more corrupt. .

EireGoBragh | 09-27-2008 07:50 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Templar (Post 1317336) +1 can't say it any better.
Obama has made suttle mention of restricting firearms, he's quick to throw out the smokescreen, "Well I'd never ban guns, so for the hunter in Montana or elsewhere you can be sure you guns are safe"....that sounds like a coded message to me.....and remember this from the Presidential debates? Joe Biden, obama's partner..... You Tube
You Tube

igorthesmall | 09-28-2008 09:51 AM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent (Post 1317334) I'd have to agree. If I vote it will be for McCain I simply cannot bring myself to vote for a liberal especially with a gun stance like that.
8 years ago McCain could have easily been running on the Democrat ticket without changing his platform. McCain is a liberal. Vote for whomever you want, your choice, but make no mistake about it, Obama or McCain, either one is a vote for a liberal.

tulsamal | 09-28-2008 07:31 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
McCain is a liberal. Vote for whomever you want, your choice, but make no mistake about it, Obama or McCain, either one is a vote for a liberal.
McCain was never my first choice but claiming he "isn't a conservative" doesn't make any sense to me. The place where conservatives rate each other's votering record is the American Conservative Union. McCain's voting record is right there for you to evaluate. http://www.acuratings.org/2007all.htm#AZ His 25 year voting record is a 82.16. (A perfect conservative record would be 100.) By comparison, Obama's voting record in the Senate is a 7.67. Gregg

Between The Wheels | 09-28-2008 07:39 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner I forgot what people are like outside places like GIM. A Brit (seriously) called me a savage for owning a gun. As for the election apparently Obama has scared Alex Jones into almost endorsing McCain.

igorthesmall | 09-28-2008 07:44 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsamal (Post 1318962) McCain was never my first choice but claiming he "isn't a conservative" doesn't make any sense to me. The place where conservatives rate each other's votering record is the American Conservative Union. McCain's voting record is right there for you to evaluate. http://www.acuratings.org/2007all.htm#AZ His 25 year voting record is a 82.16. (A perfect conservative record would be 100.) By comparison, Obama's voting record in the Senate is a 7.67. Gregg
Ratings in general are worthless, because there are so many worthless bills going through congress (renaming post offices, declaring day XYZ national garbage man's day, etc). Who cares if Joe Congress votes "conservative" on some of them and then votes like a liberal on the important stuff? What is important, is how a congresscritter votes on the major bills, and what his political philosophy is overall. That link shows Ron Paul as less conservative than John McCain, and thats not the case. John McCain has said nothing about abolishing the Fed, returning the US to sound money, balancing the budget (sure he talks about earmarks, but thats >0.01% of the budget), etc. Not to mention, he supported a bill to close the gunshow "loophole". He talks about smaller government, but look at what he has done in the 20+ years he has been in the Senate. McCain and Obama are practically identical candidates, on the issues that matter to me. Obviously the definition of a true conservative has changed, and neo-Conservatives have taken over the Republican party. If that's what you are into, then go ahead and vote for them, thats fine, but McCain isnt a conservative, if we use the traditional definition.

igorthesmall | 09-28-2008 07:46 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by Between The Wheels (Post 1318975) I forgot what people are like outside places like GIM. A Brit (seriously) called me a savage for owning a gun. As for the election apparently Obama has scared Alex Jones into almost endorsing McCain.
LOL. I remember when I was in the navy during Bosnia and we were talking to some guys from the British ship (HMS Beaver). They seemed to think that the US was like the wild, wild west, and were all afraid to come here to visit. They kept asking if we all carried guns everywhere we went, and how often we saw shootouts, lol.

sliver | 10-02-2008 11:16 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner http://www.hulu.com/watch/31501/the-simpsons-gun-shop

electric-amish | 10-02-2008 11:42 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Palin may be the only hope Conservitives have for a Republican Canidate in 4Years. Get her in their and hope for the best. E-A

FireMattMillen | 10-03-2008 12:01 AM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner The article didn't even mention that Obama voted for a ban on ALL semiautomatic guns....which is beyond absurd.

C4talyst | 10-04-2008 04:10 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent (Post 1317334) I'd have to agree. If I vote it will be for McCain I simply cannot bring myself to vote for a liberal especially with a gun stance like that.
Newsflash...McCain is a moderate and wants your guns too. This has been known here in DC for many, many years.

Twisted Avatar | 10-04-2008 04:24 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner It makes no diffrence........ I gurantee whoever the next president is within three years of office they are going to move to take our guns away. I will lay a stack of eagles on that one. T

The Argent Dragon | 10-04-2008 05:07 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1333296) It makes no diffrence........ I gurantee whoever the next president is within three years of office they are going to move to take our guns away. I will lay a stack of eagles on that one. T
Dude, you have worse problems : your state ! :puke: As stated above - appointing CONSERVATIVE JUDGES is the mission here. The 2nd Amendment must be continued to be defended. :ok:

Usury | 11-02-2008 11:49 AM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by goldgun (Post 1317015) This is the reason I have to drag myself to the polls and vote for McCain. I do not want Obama deciding who the next three supreme court justices will be. I do not agree with McCain but I believe he will appoint better supreme court justices. Now I will put my flame suit on.
That's pretty much the deal folks...

ruprick | 11-02-2008 12:17 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by C4talyst (Post 1333266) Newsflash...McCain is a moderate and wants your guns too. This has been known here in DC for many, many years.
Did you ever read his full interview in the NRA magazine....American Rifleman.....NRA gives him an "A" rating and Nobama an "F"..... I'm not 100% in support of the NRA....but they do a good job....I'm a Life Member. Vote for McCain.....I do not like him...but he is way better than Nobama....in terms of guns.

Lars Ragnarsson | 11-02-2008 12:26 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1392529) Did you ever read his full interview in the NRA magazine....American Rifleman.....NRA gives him an "A" rating and Nobama an "F"..... I'm not 100% in support of the NRA....but they do a good job....I'm a Life Member. Vote for McCain.....I do not like him...but he is way better than Nobama....in terms of guns.
We faced this dilemma in FL two years ago for governor. Both were/are complete tools. But not voting allows others to decide which way you get bent over. The Democratic candidate was an out and out gun-grabber, and his stance on other major issues were less palatable than his opponent. I wasn't voting by party - I was choosing the lesser of two evils.

reviver | 11-02-2008 01:13 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1392529) Vote for McCain.....I do not like him...but he is way better than Nobama....in terms of guns.
When McPain is given the order by his superiors, he will take your guns without batting an eyelash. Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Ragnarsson (Post 1392541) I was choosing the lesser of two evils.
Sorry, not good enough reason to vote. Why the hell bother wasting your time. It does not matter which 'tool' gets the call, either one has too many strings attached to trust with the peoples business. Then again, this, and all elections these days are not about the peoples business, but about TPTBs business, and when they decide to take your firearms, (note the trial run in NO-Katrina) it won't matter what candidate sits in the oval office.

bfnelson | 11-02-2008 04:40 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Don't vote for either of these scumbags. I can't believe people think Palin is a good candidate for VP. She's Dan Quayle with boobs. I'm not even sure she'd know what to do if McCain dies, she doesn't know anything. She'd probably just be like continue the wars and lets' have another tax cut for my rich friends who don't need it. And McCain is flat nuts about wars, he loves that stuff. He'll invade anything he can for Israel. I thought most people here were against that sort of thing. What I see is massive denial about who these people really are. Once you vote for them you have no right to gripe, contrary to the popular saying.

bfnelson | 11-02-2008 04:44 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by reviver (Post 1392590) When McPain is given the order by his superiors, he will take your guns without batting an eyelash.
I agree completely. Look at it this way: If McCain gets into office this baby is DEFINITELY going down because he has no clue about anything useful - and that means martial law. And martial law means gun confiscation - outright door to door searches by blackwater thugs. Barack on the other hand might be able to keep things going for a couple years and maybe pass some Mickey Mouse ban on semi-autos where the current owners keep their weapons. But I'm still not voting for either of them, why participate in your own enslavement?

hypervel | 11-02-2008 05:15 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by igorthesmall (Post 1318988) LOL. I remember when I was in the navy during Bosnia and we were talking to some guys from the British ship (HMS Beaver). They seemed to think that the US was like the wild, wild west, and were all afraid to come here to visit. They kept asking if we all carried guns everywhere we went, and how often we saw shootouts, lol.
HMS Beaver was in the Gulf with us during D.S. We'd be on watch in CIC and quite enjoyed listening to an English gal call over "Ingersoll, this is Beaver, over". Simple things...... We were also sooooo jealous that not only did the Brits actually get their beer allotment (ours got raffled among the officer's mess-we "little people" got near beer), but they got to wear shorts. In the hot hot Gulf! Not to jack a thread.....just remembering......

reviver | 11-02-2008 05:23 PM
Re: Revenge of the Bitter Gun Owner Quote:
Originally Posted by bfnelson (Post 1392925) She's Dan Quayle with boobs. ... she doesn't know anything.
:111: :111: :111: Too bad it's so sad. Quote:
Originally Posted by bfnelson (Post 1392929) why participate in your own enslavement?
:thumb.aspx: I'm in total agreement. :thumb.aspx: Your colorable government no longer represents YOU. But they get lots of satisfaction, and peonage when you do.

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