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VX1 | 03-09-2010 07:47 AM
.308 FMJ vs JHP? I picked up my first .308/7.62 rifle (Panther LR-308T), and need to load up on ammo. As far as defensive rounds, I understand the importance of hollow points with a 9mm round, and I could understand for a pure sniper rifle, but in an AR-10-style .308 battle rifle, am I thinking correctly that it would be a detriment, as it would keep the rounds from getting through cover well? Also, what's the deal with these "ballistic tips"; seems like just another soft point: http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...o-308-762-nato Thanks!

eat_beef | 03-09-2010 09:56 AM
Re: .308 FMJ vs JHP? If you can afford it, I would buy an even amount of ballistic tips and FMJs. I went all FMJ because when I bought in, FMJs were 18c per round and BTs were .75. It's probably more like .50 and 1.00 now. If you have both you can have mags loaded with each, color coded, so you can use the ammo suited to the purpose before you. You will lose some penetration with a SP/BT, but you only need that if you're trying to punch something; on a soft target a SP is far better than an FMJ, and a Ballistic Tip is far better than a SP. The modern ballistic tips like Hornady's SST and TAP, Winchester's Ballistic Silver Tip, or the Nosler BT, expand a LOT faster than a soft point like a Remington Core Lokt or Winchester Game Shok. Of course if you're trying to build a cache, price factors in. I'd rather have 10k FMJs than 5k BTs, but I do have a small stash of specialty rounds. Don't forget the AP!

SWRichmond | 03-09-2010 10:08 AM
Re: .308 FMJ vs JHP? I believe it is also important to take into account the expected application of the rifle (volume of fire vs accuracy at longer ranges), the capability and accuracy of the individual rifle, and other factors such as barrel length. Did you put a lot of glass on a longer-barreled target grade .308? Don't buy a lot of ball. See what I mean? Barrel twist rate is also a factor in bullet selection. Short barreled 1/12? Stick with 147gr / 150 gr bullets. Match barrel / 1/10? You can get away with 168's.

TTAZZMAN | 03-09-2010 10:09 AM
Re: .308 FMJ vs JHP? Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 2217916) Don't forget the AP!
AP ???????

eat_beef | 03-09-2010 10:35 AM
Re: .308 FMJ vs JHP? SW, my Crazy Horse shoots Lake City M80 into 1.25 MOA. M118LR will make one ragged hole if I do my part, but FGMM 168s are more like 2-3 MOA. I know it's one barrel, but for most applications that cheap ball will do, and I can afford more than twice the quantity.

TTAZZMAN | 03-09-2010 11:23 AM
Re: .308 FMJ vs JHP? Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 2217947) Armor piercing.
:banghead: duh!! im having a slow day

renegade_01 | 03-09-2010 12:03 PM
Re: .308 FMJ vs JHP? I hand loaded some Sierra match King 168gr BTHP with lake city brass, CCI BR2 Primers, and some H4895 @ about 39-40 gr. Shot a few last weekend, and WOW. You could tell the velocity was faster than the M80 ball I've been feeding. My grouping was .5-1MOA with a cheap red-dot ACOG knockoff. I am also shooting a DPMS LR308B. A very accurate rifle. Everytime I take it out, a crowd gathers. I can't wait to get some real glass on it. As far as loads go: I'd say spring for the reloading equipment. It won't be cheaper at first, but later on it could be, and the accuracy and satisfaction of your own hand loads is IMMENSE. Gotta love 308 man. Next rifle is going to be a REM 700 308 build.

hoarder | 03-09-2010 12:31 PM
Re: .308 FMJ vs JHP? As a defensive round, .308 is highly touted as being able to break through cover that 762x39 (and .223) can't penetrate. I would think that mainly applies to FMJ.

eat_beef | 03-09-2010 12:49 PM
Re: .308 FMJ vs JHP? That actually depends on what you're shooting at/through. 308 soft points (rem core lokt 150s) will penetrate brick/rock and lumber better than 556 or x39 fmj. 556, with it's faster velocity, will out penetrate 308 in steel, reguardless of bullet weight/design. The ss109/M855 is a real smoker on mild steel. This all assumes similar bbl lengths, sometimes a 308 from a 22" M14 bbl will outdo 556 from a 16" AR bbl. on steel. I've never shot any polymer tip ammo into any of the above for testing, but it makes a remarkable mess of deer, coyotes, hogs, crows, etc., and I'm sure it would be a poorer performer RE penetration, compared to the SPs or FMJs.

King_Squais | 03-09-2010 07:53 PM
Re: .308 FMJ vs JHP? Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 2217916) If you can afford it, I would buy an even amount of ballistic tips and FMJs. I went all FMJ because when I bought in, FMJs were 18c per round and BTs were .75. It's probably more like .50 and 1.00 now. If you have both you can have mags loaded with each, color coded, so you can use the ammo suited to the purpose before you. You will lose some penetration with a SP/BT, but you only need that if you're trying to punch something; on a soft target a SP is far better than an FMJ, and a Ballistic Tip is far better than a SP. The modern ballistic tips like Hornady's SST and TAP, Winchester's Ballistic Silver Tip, or the Nosler BT, expand a LOT faster than a soft point like a Remington Core Lokt or Winchester Game Shok. Of course if you're trying to build a cache, price factors in. I'd rather have 10k FMJs than 5k BTs, but I do have a small stash of specialty rounds. Don't forget the AP!
Where are you getting your AP? The only stuff I see is pulled bullets from 30-06 and reloaded.

eat_beef | 03-09-2010 11:36 PM
Re: .308 FMJ vs JHP? Bunker A, small arms.:biggrin: You gotta know what you're looking for, most of what's out there is reloaded 30 cal black tips, not tungsten or hardened steel cored "modern" AP.

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