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- - Buying Hand Gun for SHTF (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=433384)

gogold | 12-19-2009 01:20 AM
Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Ok hand gun expert here in GIM, Newbie needs advice for buying a decent hand gun in California. Brand ? Price ? Easy of Use ? Women friendly ? PS: need handgun, not machine gun.:452:

Gaillo | 12-19-2009 01:25 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Brand? - Glock. Unless you can afford Sig-Sauer or H&K. Price? - Don't worry too much about that... go for quality. You only buy quality once. Beside, do you REALLY want to to "bargain hunt" when ultimately your very LIFE might be riding on your decision? Ease of Use? - Double-action, or Glock "Safe Action". Avoid Single-Action, unless you have a LOT of time to invest in training with it. Women Friendly? - Avoid small handguns. Seriously. Most "womens" handguns are dainty, and have a VICIOUS recoil. Remember... the larger, heavier, and higher capacity the gun, the easier it will be to shoot and hold zero, and the easier it will be on your wrists - up to a point. My overall point here? Most "women's" handguns are WOEFULLY mismarketed... I wouldn't shoot most of the "lady's" models, and NOT because they're pink. You forgot to ask about caliber/cartridge... 9mm Luger is the way and the light for someone new to guns, and also for most of us non-testosterone-compensating-for-shooters as well. Seriously. It does the job, and does it VERY well. PS: machine gun comment aside, what you REALLY need is a Glock 19, H&K P2000 (V3, 9mm), or Sig-Sauer P228 (or P229 9mm, if you can't find the P228) - and don't let anyone tell you differently.

buff01 | 12-19-2009 01:28 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF GLOCK 19 (compact) or 17 (full size) are what you're looking for. Both models are 9mm. Note: I prefer the older models, the new update that just came out has an uncomfortable grip IMO.

Caligula | 12-19-2009 01:29 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF .38 snubnose. Pink if youre a girl.

Gaillo | 12-19-2009 01:38 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula (Post 2083926) .38 snubnose. Pink if youre a girl.
I'm going to STRONGLY disagree with this suggestion... unless you live in a VERY cold climate (where a Revolver's action has a slight advantage when freezing up). If you want to trust your LIFE to a limit of 6 rounds, with REALLY slow reload, go ahead. I'd personally (as would pretty much everyone else I personally know, including my girlfriend Henny Penny) trust my life to 15-17 rounds (and fast reload) that an automatic pistol (the other suggestions so far) will provide.

mick silver | 12-19-2009 01:53 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF ruger p95 . it around 400.00 an has 2 mages with it an 17 rounds per mag .

Gaillo | 12-19-2009 01:56 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by mick silver (Post 2083949) ruger p95 . it around 400.00 an has 2 mages with it an 17 rounds per mag .
Also a very good suggestion... Ruger handguns are rock solid and very reliable, if not a bit square-gripped and clunky (to my hands, at least). Give them a try, you might like them!

mick silver | 12-19-2009 01:58 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF my wife laugh at me when i put both of my ruger p95 on my belt ... one on each side

Gaillo | 12-19-2009 02:04 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Just one other observation... you are in CA, which means 10 round ammunition magazines are the maximum allowed by law, unless you already owned them before the misguided and unconstitutional ban went into effect. All of the previously mentioned handguns are available with 10 round "California Neutered" magazines, so this shouldn't be a problem for you. Go to a local shooting range/gun shop, try a few of the guns that have been suggested, and find what's right for you. Don't let other people's (or gunshop proprietor's) opinons count for TOO much in your search for what works for you and your particular situation.

ColdWater | 12-19-2009 02:04 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF You'll probably get more advice in the gun forum. A small snub nose revolver for ease of use, reliability and concealment. Or a Bersa 380/ Walther P99 semi auto. If your in a firefight you'll want a automatic weapon so don't worry about a firefight. The best weapon is the one you carry on you. A knife/expandable baton is the best thing you'll ever carry in close quarters.

General of Darkness | 12-19-2009 02:11 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Glocks are great from what I hear. Now back to the topic. Brand ? Price ? Easy of Use ? Women friendly ? First and foremost, whats your life worth? What IS the PRICE? My humble opinion Ammo = 45 ACP Hollow point (yes it's legal in Cali) Gun = 1911 Brand = The skies the limit I HATE promoting what I did, but I spent about 9 months before I purchased my 1911. I decided upon a Dan Wesson Commander Model, ton's of custom stuff on a budget. A lot of bang for you buck.

Gaillo | 12-19-2009 02:15 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdWater (Post 2083959) ...Or a Bersa 380/ Walther P99 semi auto...
The Walther P99 - now that's a BEAUTIFUL option - if you can find one in CA, with the fairly rare 10-round magazines. I'd avoid the Bersa 380, not because it's THAT bad of a gun (It's grudgingly somewhat OK, from my experience, I sold mine anyway)... but rather because .380 ammo is VERY, VERY difficult to find right now.

Mill Man | 12-19-2009 02:16 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Go with an H&K, definately H&K. I'm a big fan of their inverse loading magazines. (Note: the preceding post was for entertainment purposes only)

Gaillo | 12-19-2009 02:24 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by General of Darkness (Post 2083964) Glocks are great from what I hear. Now back to the topic. ... Ammo = 45 ACP Hollow point (yes it's legal in Cali) Gun = 1911 ...
Most true "Gun Nuts" will recommend the 1911. I'd take these recommendations with a VERY large grain of salt. First off, the 1911 is a VERY good design, for it's time, but at nearly 100 years old it has some MAJOR drawbacks as compared to modern designs. It is difficult to strip for cleaning, difficult to make both accurate and reliable at the same time (most manufacturers, unfortunately, choose accurate at the expense of reliability), and (finally) - it is a single-action handgun, which requires a bit of serious training before you can consider it "safe" and achieve some level of comfortability with. Please don't misunderstand me... the 1911 is a pinnacle of hangun design (for its time) and has a rich and exemplary history behind it. Unfortunately, it just might not be (and probably isn't) the weapon of choice for a first-time handgun buyer... particularly in this day and age where technological achievements have presented many more suitable options for a first-time handgun buyer. Even some of the BEST 1911 variants, purchased from reputable manufacturers at great expense, will require a bit of "tuning" from a qualified gunsmith before they can be considered competent self-defense sidearms. If you like it, if you are comfortable shooting it, and if you can afford the higher-than-typical price to obtain a reliable variant of it, the 1911 is just fine. Know what you are getting into first, though. This one takes some research to pick out the gems among the gravel. P.S. Regardless of caliber, G.O.D.'s recommendation of hollowpoints is ESSENTIAL for a home-defense or SHTF handgun.

Professur | 12-19-2009 02:29 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF First gun for a woman? IMHO you can't go wrong with the .22 magnum. 8 rounds, no feed issues, and more importantly, easy to carry everywhere. No, it won't stop a charging rhino, but neither will the Glock if it's too damn big for you to bother carrying. Let's face it ... any gun in your hand is better than the best gun left at home. The .22 mag hits more than hard enough, is more than moderately accurate, and unless you're facing an armed gang, 8 rounds should supply plenty of deterrent and opportunity for you to get outta Dodge. And contrary to common belief, noone's going to be checking calibres from the barrel end. You put a round into a guy and he's not going to wait around to see how big a hole it left. When people start leaking, they start leaving.

BoatingAccident | 12-19-2009 02:29 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Glocks are great from what I know. I couldn't get the thing to jam, in the rain, dragging the gun through the mud...I abused the sh!t out of my glock. Fired every time. That's all I need.

Lars Ragnarsson | 12-19-2009 02:31 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF I like my Springfield XD subcompact in .40 S&W. Recoil is very managable compared to my Sig P-229. Easy trigger pull, and accurate, too. One drawback for the ladies with the autos, however, is the hand strength to pull back the slide. I don't have a single auto that my wife can chamber a round with, except for my Colt Woodsman. She's not a small lady, but she has arthritis and carpal tunnel issues. Maybe the spring on the XD in 9mm won't be as stiff - if you run across one at a shop you could try it out. And all the XD models come in CA packages.

General of Darkness | 12-19-2009 02:31 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 2083973) Most true "Gun Nuts" will recommend the 1911. I'd take these recommendations with a VERY large grain of salt. First off, the 1911 is a VERY good design, for it's time, but at nearly 100 years old it has some MAJOR drawbacks as compared to modern designs. It is difficult to strip for cleaning, difficult to make both accurate and reliable at the same time (most manufacturers, unfortunately, choose accurate at the expense of reliability), and (finally) - it is a single-action handgun, which requires a bit of serious training before you can consider it "safe" and achieve some level of comfortability with. Please don't misunderstand me... the 1911 is a pinnacle of hangun design (for its time) and has a rich and exemplary history behind it. Unfortunately, it just might not be (and probably isn't) the weapon of choice for a first-time handgun buyer... particularly in this day and age where technological achievements have presented many more suitable options for a first-time handgun buyer. If you like it, if you are comfortable shooting it, and if you can afford the higher-than-typical price to obtain a reliable variant of it, the 1911 is just fine. Know what you are getting into first, though. This one takes some research to pick out the gems among the gravel.
While you're correct, let me ask you one question. If you run out of ammo, and you need to pistol whip someone and there's camera's tell me the 1911 in stainless doesn't make an exceptional hammer? :565::565:

Gaillo | 12-19-2009 02:38 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by General of Darkness (Post 2083981) While you're correct, let me ask you one question. If you run out of ammo, and you need to pistol whip someone and there's camera's tell me the 1911 in stainless doesn't make an exceptional hammer? :565::565:
A very nice hammer indeed! :biggrin: I like my Sig P226ST (Nearly 3 pounds empty) for that purpose... but after 2 mag of 17 rounds +1 in the chamber (35 rounds, for the mathematically challenged...), I hardly think a hammering will necessary! :s9: All in all... I guess when you get right down to it, only a fool takes a hammer to a gunfight.

BoatingAccident | 12-19-2009 02:43 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by General of Darkness (Post 2083981) While you're correct, let me ask you one question. If you run out of ammo, and you need to pistol whip someone and there's camera's tell me the 1911 in stainless doesn't make an exceptional hammer? :565::565:
Well, that's true. A plastic glock won't do much in a pistol whip scenario. The 1911 is a fine gun. It really comes down to if a person is a gun enthusiast, or just sees a gun as a tool. To me, a gun is a tool. Just like a screwdriver or a hammer. I just need it to work when I need it. I don't need any stainless screwdrivers, nor a fancy gun. I trust my glock. It's earned my trust.

DC7 | 12-19-2009 05:51 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Learn to shoot. Go to a shooting range that rents guns. Try shooting different ones, about .380 or larger calibers, and figure out what works well for you. Then you'll have a list of what you like and can have a poll and ask something like "out of these 3, which should I get?" Then when people give their reasons, you can weigh em against how much you liked shooting that gun.

gbgunner | 12-19-2009 06:42 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF One thing to consider is how much you are planning to train/practice. Do you know what your budget will be for this new "hobby"? Are you planning on practicing just enough so you can operate it ok when TSHTF? Or is this going to be a new hobby or interest that you want to partake in during your free time? If you plan on just getting familiar enough to operate it and maybe a few plinking sessions throughout the year then I'd suggest a revolver. If you are going to train regularly then the Glock, SIG, and HK are all good selections.

Avalon | 12-19-2009 06:51 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by gogold (Post 2083917) Ok hand gun expert here in GIM, Newbie needs advice for buying a decent hand gun in California. Brand ? Price ? Easy of Use ? Women friendly ? PS: need handgun, not machine gun.:452:
I also asked here on GIM and got great suggestions. They are right when they say shoot different guns.. The gun someone else likes may be a nightmare for you. I got a lot of suggestions for a 9mm and hated it.. I found a gun friend. He let me shoot his considerable arsenal of weapons. After shooting different guns and being honest about capabilities , coordination and fears of a clip jamming I picked a S&W 38 revolver. It is easy to operate and find bullets and parts for. It was easy to clean. It was about $460 dollars [before tax].. I did buy a new grip and gloves though. It is not a fun gun to shoot but a perfect carry weapon and my shooting was pretty accurate with it. It will tire you out though..You might want to take a conceal and carry class. Im not sure I will actually get the permit but knowing the laws and the other info in the class is a must.. For fun shooting I will buy a 1911.. Its really fun to shoot. I cant do the slide with one hand but two hands work fine..

Twisted Avatar | 12-19-2009 08:20 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by BoatingAccident (Post 2083976) Glocks are great from what I know. I couldn't get the thing to jam, in the rain, dragging the gun through the mud...I abused the sh!t out of my glock. Fired every time. That's all I need.
Show me a sidearm that stood up to 1/10th the abuse and I'll buy it. http://www.theprepared.com/index.php...ask=view&id=90 T

TechGuy | 12-19-2009 09:44 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF The perfect gun for you depends on YOU. My advice: NONE specific to your questions. BUT: If you aren't a shooter now, sign up for a class. Get yourself to a gun range that rents out pistols. Rent a few and see which one fits you and is the most comfortable to shoot. The best pistol for you is one you are not afraid to shoot, fits your hand comfortably and one that is reliable and controllable. PERIOD

ruprick | 12-19-2009 10:00 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF You need 2 guns.....your SHTF gun of choice....for someone that has never has a gun...esp gals...a simple revolver in 38 special. Get a smaller barrel like 2". I like hammerless......a semiauto is too much for most gals that know nothing about guns....and even most guys that know nothing about guns. A lot of gals do not have the strength to rack/chamber a semiauto.....there are some tip up barrels to get around this....but why bother....just get a revolver. Next, get a very similar 22LR like your SHTF gun and shoot it a lot....most folks will be too cheap to fire their SHTF gun much...a box of 50 rounds will cost over $20 in most places....a box of 22LR is still inder $2. Just get any gun and shoot often. All guns are great for shooting at bad guys in SHTF.

HUB90LX | 12-19-2009 10:20 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by General of Darkness (Post 2083964) Glocks are great from what I hear. Now back to the topic. Brand ? Price ? Easy of Use ? Women friendly ? First and foremost, whats your life worth? What IS the PRICE? My humble opinion Ammo = 45 ACP Hollow point (yes it's legal in Cali) Gun = 1911 Brand = The skies the limit I HATE promoting what I did, but I spent about 9 months before I purchased my 1911. I decided upon a Dan Wesson Commander Model, ton's of custom stuff on a budget. A lot of bang for you buck.
This man speaks the Gospel. HUB

<SLV> | 12-19-2009 10:33 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF My wife shot a .38 revolver and Glock 19 and she much preferred the Glock. You should get the baby 9 - the Glock 26 - because mag capacity isn't an issue and you should do fine with the smaller grip. In an emergency zombie evacuation it will fit in your pocket easier, also.

<SLV> | 12-19-2009 10:35 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF BTW, get Federal Tactical Bonded ammo for outside protection and Federal Hydrashock for indoors. Also get some spare magazines.

<SLV> | 12-19-2009 10:46 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Just to clear up some junk info in this thread. The H&K has the second worst trigger I've ever felt (behind the plastic S&W .22 trigger). It is truly horrid. The XD has way too many buttons and levers for a beginner. I DON'T want a "safety" on a gun that will defend my life. Safety is being able to squeeze and hear "bang" every time. That is why I always say Glock to a beginner - only one function, shoot. I personally prefer the CZ P-01, but it shouldn't be the place to start. 9mm is the perfect ammo. Don't let anyone talk you into weird calibers. 9mm is plenty powerful, but easy for a lady to handle. It is lighter than .40 or .45 and costs less. It is the easiest caliber to find in stock anywhere. Trust me - Glock in 9mm - either the compact 19 or the baby 26. You should find them right around $550.

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Canadabound | 12-19-2009 10:48 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF I like my SPringfield Armoury XD 9mm, and it has 16 round clips so if you are not a good shot, you get extra tries.:s1:

New2This | 12-19-2009 10:51 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF This time last year i was where you are now. Through extensive gun-forum research, I came to try, and now rely on, the CZ line of handguns. My first was a CZ 75 B in Stainless Steel. Not only is it a dream to shoot (like driving a Rolls Royce), but it is also beautiful to look at. It has the right amount of heft to control recoil and fall back on target after each shot. I am also very accurate with it. I wanted another, but they have become immensely popular since I got mine, so I bought a CZ 75 D Compact PCR (Police Czech Republic). This is a slightly smaller version of the 75 B. It also has a featherweight alminum reciever (body). It still has some heft due to the steel barrel and slide, but its lightness and shorter barrel make it a bit "snappy". I have put thousands of rounds through this gun, and added a Crimson Trace Laser Grip, and STILL, I am not as accurate with this little thing as the 75 B SS. It is a sharp looking little pistol with a 14 round (9mm) capacity. So, I recommend the Stainless Steel CZ 75 B 9mm Luger as your first pistol. Get two if you can. They come in 10 rnd mag variety but I have seen up to 30 round mags for this pistol (looks goofy). Mine came with 16 round mags that fit perfectly. Also, the shape of the pistol fits my smallish hands perfectly. It is overall, nice and thin, and the standard rubber grips provide ample holding surfaces. This gun is actually a joy to hold. Good luck in your search. Oh, and be prepared to spend tons of $$$ as you can never have enough guns or ammo once you start!!! That's been my experience, anyway. I am now researching the purchase of an AR-15, but this is difficult since they are so modular, and are usually cobbled from different suppliers rather than purchased as one finished weapon.

Mtscout | 12-19-2009 11:48 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF gogold there is a lot of good advice here. handguns are very personal things. first in my opinion your choice should be something that you will practice with. however there are choices that require very little practice, because their effect, at close range is very devastating. the Taurus Judge is an example of this. a revolver that uses a 45 long colt or 410 gauge shot gun shell. it's a large hand gun,very straight forward design, but would be practical for home or vehicle. and there would not be a great need for much practice. http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm Smith and Wesson offer a wide range of revolvers. personally I like this one, notice it loads 8 cartridges. and you can practice with reduced power loads, saving the heavy stuff for sticky situations. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...egory_rn=15706 the 1911's have been around for a long time, and there is a reason. http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_classic.asp I have a Kimber 1911, and Mrs Scout can shoot it as well as I. She is 5' 5" and 105lbs, and has no trouble with recoil. http://www.kimberamerica.com/product...old_combat_II/ good luck with your decision Scout

BoatingAccident | 12-19-2009 11:58 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtscout (Post 2084378) however there are choices that require very little practice, because their effect, at close range is very devastating. the Taurus Judge is an example of this. a revolver that uses a 45 long colt or 410 gauge shot gun shell. it's a large hand gun,very straight forward design, but would be practical for home or vehicle. and there would not be a great need for much practice.
The Taurus Judge is a great suggestion, probably one of the best SHTF handguns. I don't have any personal experience with this gun, but I've talked to folks that own them and they rant and rave about this gun. I believe there's also a smaller version called the Public Defender. Unfortunately, illegal in California where the OP lives. :thumpdown

EE_ | 12-19-2009 12:50 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Glock 26 or 27 http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6...k/G26SW642.jpg http://postworthy.com/ContributorIma...e_holster1.jpg

sirgonzo420 | 12-19-2009 01:21 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Another vote for a Glock 19 here. :ok: .

Workaholic | 12-19-2009 01:27 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF I don't see how anyone could look any further than the XDM 9mm 19+1 <object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jMTPOJfYjOs&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jMTPOJfYjOs&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

The Great Ag | 12-19-2009 02:17 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF There is a lot of great info in this thread. I concur, go to the range that rents guns and try several. The weapon should fit well in your hand. One gun I would recommend is the Springfield Armory XD 9mm. Here is a link to a 20,000 (YES TWENTY THOUSAND ROUND) torture test. http://springfield-armory.primediaou.../SPstory11.php This is the gun I purchased except in the .40 caliber. For me it fit well in my hand and had safety features I needed. A childs hand could NOT fire this gun easily because of the grip safety. An adult size hand is needed. Good luck in your research. Let us know what you purchased. The Great Ag

wallew | 12-19-2009 02:51 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF 13+ hours. 38 posts (now 39). Gogold did not give us ANY information on what she wants to use the firearm for. Without that info, we are just projecting our own uses. So gogold, why do you want a gun? And WHY do you feel you need a handgun? If you live in Cali, unless you are LEO or are really connected, you won't be doing any CCW, so I ask again. Why do you need a gun? What circumstances are you attempting to prevent? I'm not being critical. It's just with so little information to go on, we are all just guessing here. Search the firearms forum. There are numerous threads that rehash the caliber wars (bigger vs smaller), the revolver vs semiauto wars, and the 'non lethal' choices etc. And as has been said, sign up for a firearms class. Almost every shooting range has them. Most will allow you to rent and try out different types. Or find a 'firearm friend' who has numerous examples and go to the range with them. And DON'T take what anyone here says as fact. ANYONE (yes, including me) will give you their take on the truth. What fits one person will not fit another and be comfortable to shoot. Hence the suggestion to go out and try different types. I'll also give you some insight. A LOT of us guys here, started with a BB gun when we were 10 years old (or younger). We slowly graduated to a .22 caliber firearm - be it a pistol or a rifle. From there, it's a coin toss. Some of us are gaga for handguns. Others like long range rifles. Some of us are nuts for shotguns. And don't take this the wrong way, don't knock a Class III weapon (machine gun) until you've tried them - VERY expensive to purchase - VERY difficult to get an approval (at least in Cali) - and VERY expensive to feed (all those bullets go out SO much faster you know). But there's just something about shooting a machine gun that gives you that warm feeling of safety.

Ag_man | 12-19-2009 02:54 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Just guessing here, but I assume that the OP is new to handguns. My vote would be for a .357 mag revolver with a 4" barrel. Easy to become proficient with, it can use a variety of ammo types (from punching paper in .38 spl to hunting rounds in .357 mag), cheap to feed and has great lethality with the right choice of ammo. My 2nd recommendation would be either the Glock or Springfield XD in 9mm or .40 cal.

EE_ | 12-19-2009 02:57 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Forget the Springfield XD in California. It is non-compliant in CA and is not for sale.

Twisted Avatar | 12-19-2009 03:06 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2084291) Just to clear up some junk info in this thread. The H&K has the second worst trigger I've ever felt (behind the plastic S&W .22 trigger). It is truly horrid. The XD has way too many buttons and levers for a beginner. I DON'T want a "safety" on a gun that will defend my life. Safety is being able to squeeze and hear "bang" every time. That is why I always say Glock to a beginner - only one function, shoot. I personally prefer the CZ P-01, but it shouldn't be the place to start. 9mm is the perfect ammo. Don't let anyone talk you into weird calibers. 9mm is plenty powerful, but easy for a lady to handle. It is lighter than .40 or .45 and costs less. It is the easiest caliber to find in stock anywhere. Trust me - Glock in 9mm - either the compact 19 or the baby 26. You should find them right around $550.
Highly customizeable Ammo is plentiful HUGE aftermarket parts Mags between 26,17, 19 all interchangeable and can hold up 33rd Capcity Mags. Feild strip and clean can be done blindfolded. Rock solid reputation Very good gun for a beginer :ok: T

Operation Grief | 12-19-2009 03:08 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2084291) Trust me - Glock in 9mm - either the compact 19 or the baby 26.
9mm is okay for 5'0" Chinese paratroopers dropping in. But for 6'6" thugs weighing 300 lbs., drugged up and in heavy clothing—go for 10mm (full size Glock 20 or compact Glock 29). Second choice: .357 mag (7-shot Smith & Wesson 620). Latter is probably the best combat round...and you can practice with cheap .38 ammo.

EE_ | 12-19-2009 03:12 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by Operation Grief (Post 2084591) 9mm is okay for 5'0" Chinese paratroopers dropping in. But for 6'6" thugs weighing 300 lbs., drugged up and in heavy clothing�go for 10mm (full size Glock 20 or compact Glock 29). Second choice: .357 mag (7-shot Smith & Wesson 620). Latter is probably the best combat round...and you can practice with cheap .38 ammo.
I haven't met any 300lb. 6'6" thugs that can still fight from this 9mm wound. http://www.forensicindia.com/forensi...t_forehead.jpg

Operation Grief | 12-19-2009 03:24 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_ (Post 2084594) I haven't met any 300lb. 6'6" thugs that can still fight from this 9mm wound.
In a SHTF panic situation, good luck getting a head shot.

BarnacleBob | 12-19-2009 03:25 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Firstly a handgun should not serve as a primary tactical perimeter defense weapon .... this role is best filled with 12ga shotgun or battle styled RIFLES with hi cap mags .... Secondly a handgun is a personal self-defense weapon, nothing more, nothing less .... my use of a carry weapon is not to kill the attacker, but to preserve my life and limb ..... once I have escaped the danger in tact, I may move to an aggressive offensive position employing the proper tools and weaponry to complete the task or mission ..... In conclusion, I carry a Baby Browning 25 on my person as a means to allow my immediate flight from danger, my wife employs a small frame S&W 8 round ultra lightweight 22 cal revolver due to ease of operation and the ability of deploying a loaded firearm safely, quickly and efficiently by an amateur ..... Statistically the majority of firefights with handguns occur ar 10 feet or less, thus a handgun should be employed as a means to escape from pending danger by providing a flight from immediate bodily harm! 22 or 38/357 cal wheel guns are excellent choices for newbies, both the 22 & 38 are inexpensive to practice with for general acclimation and general beginner firearm knowledge purposes .... JMO PS -- proper situational awareness means that you may 99.999% of the time take flight b4ever requiring the need to resort to discharging or brandishing a weapon. Save the fight for better circumstances that provide exceptional averages to the intended PREPLANNED outcome.......

MoMoney | 12-19-2009 03:33 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF ** always use the same bullets that the local police use in your town ** this way you can not be brought to trial for excessive use of force. For the ladies: S & W revolver, 357, airweight, single-action, shrouded, crimson-trace laser. Good for the ladies. About $950.00 Ankle holster. :5_1_120:

BoatingAccident | 12-19-2009 03:34 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by Operation Grief (Post 2084615) In a SHTF panic situation, good luck getting a head shot.
Good point, most panic situations will happen very quickly in very close quarters. In reality, adrenaline can make accuracy less than perfect, for people not trained or prepared. Best just unload every round center mass and hope it's enough. Aim for the bigger target, you could say. This is where it's important to go to the range and train. The more comfortable a person is with shooting their gun, the better chance it will be effective if needed.

State of Jefferson | 12-19-2009 03:35 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by gogold (Post 2083917) Ok hand gun expert here in GIM, Newbie needs advice for buying a decent hand gun in California. Brand ? Price ? Easy of Use ? Women friendly ? PS: need handgun, not machine gun.:452:
Advice from a fellow Californian... It is advisable to select your firearm from a reputable gun dealer in your local area. They will have already vetted their stock against the (idiotic) California DOJ "safe" handgun list: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ (if a gun is not on the list, by make & exact model, it cannot be sold except by Private Party Transfer - it is very easy to screw up, and buy a gun, say, on Gunbroker, and then not be able to complete the transfer, unless you have some expertise - so go with dealer stock/sale) I suggest buying a quality firearm, made in America, or Europe. That means, not inclusively, by Smith & Wesson, Ruger, SIG Sauer, Glock, Beretta. Don't look solely at price. You often get only what you pay for. I recommend new, since you're a newbie (pun unintentional) - since you don't have the expertise to verify a used gun is not buying someone else's problem. Don't be upsold, though - you don't need a Kimber (top quality, along with top price). For caliber, a .38 Special or 9mm is perfect for you. Plenty of reliable power to put down a rabid animal (two- or four-legged varieties :wink:). Don't get caught up in the caliber-wars, where people insist only a .45 ACP is effective. You'll be looking at a revolver in .38 Special or a semi-automatic pistol in 9mm. (you're welcome to go with .45 ACP, of course, if you like the higher caliber, but keep in mind the higher price for ammo) I selected a Smith & Wesson Model 442 .38 Special revolver for my daughter. She's small and "girly," and doesn't like pistols or high-calibers. My wife selected a Glock 17 (it's 9mm), and she loves it. I'd recommend looking at those models first (a S&W 642 is effectively the same as a 442, just different color). Consider the gun dealer's advice, but ultimately, YOU must make the final decisions. If it doesn't "feel" right, move on to another choice; don't get suckered into choosing the dealer's preference. You must have high, preferably total, confidence in your firearm. (you may have high confidence at purchase, and gain total confidence with some practice) Best wishes in your search, and feel free to ask more questions if you do some window shopping first.

GoldWampum | 12-19-2009 03:38 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Ragnarsson (Post 2083980) I like my Springfield XD subcompact in .40 S&W. Recoil is very managable compared to my Sig P-229. Easy trigger pull, and accurate, too. One drawback for the ladies with the autos, however, is the hand strength to pull back the slide. I don't have a single auto that my wife can chamber a round with, except for my Colt Woodsman. She's not a small lady, but she has arthritis and carpal tunnel issues. Maybe the spring on the XD in 9mm won't be as stiff - if you run across one at a shop you could try it out. And all the XD models come in CA packages.
Look at some of the suggested models but please... look at the XD series... Feel it and even fire it if you can.

State of Jefferson | 12-19-2009 03:42 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 2083975) IMHO you can't go wrong with the .22 magnum.
Whoa, dude, you're playing into so many stereotypes about Canadians & combat! :wink: NO WAY on a .22 of any type. .38 Special or above. And forget the .380 ACP.

State of Jefferson | 12-19-2009 03:44 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by BoatingAccident (Post 2083976) Glocks are great from what I know. I couldn't get the thing to jam, in the rain, dragging the gun through the mud...I abused the sh!t out of my glock. Fired every time. That's all I need.
Try some Prvi Partizan 9mm ammo; you'll jam it. For the OP, after buying your gun, we'll be happy to give advice on ammunition. Buy only top quality stuff, with proven reliability.

State of Jefferson | 12-19-2009 03:51 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 2084568) If you live in Cali, unless you are LEO or are really connected, you won't be doing any CCW, so I ask again.
If you don't know what you're talking about, please don't pipe up. We need to know which county she is in to determine CCW options. Most rural California counties issue CCWs readily, and counties under 200,000 allow loaded open carry with a CCW.

45 ACP | 12-19-2009 03:55 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Glock 19, 23, or 30. Shoot all three and see which one feels best in your hands. The 19 and 23 share the same frame. One is 9 mm one is .40 S&W. The Glock 30 is 45 ACP. All three are great, simple, and reliable shooters. All three are easy to conceal if needed, although the 30 is a bit bulky. Get training with a professional and not just shooting paper. Good luck. Stay safe. May the force be with you.

State of Jefferson | 12-19-2009 03:55 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_ (Post 2084580) Forget the Springfield XD in California. It is non-compliant in CA and is not for sale.
Lots o' "experts" on here that don't know what they're talking about. The XD is not only legal in California, but a very good choice, with many configurations available to choose from: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ XD9101 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 10/21/2010 XD9102 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 12/20/2010 XD9103 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .357 SIG 12/20/2010 XD9104 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 3/21/2010 XD9109 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/21/2010 XD9113 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .357 SIG 3/26/2010 XD9121 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" 9mm 1/23/2010 XD9122 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 1/23/2010 XD9131 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm 1/23/2010 XD9132 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 11/28/2010 XD9161 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 11/20/2010 XD9162 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 11/20/2010 XD9201 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 3/26/2010 XD9202 / Composite, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/26/2010 XD9221 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08 9mm 1/23/2010 XD9222 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 1/23/2010 XD9231 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/26/2010 XD9232 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 3/26/2010 XD9261 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/26/2010 XD9262 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/26/2010 XD9301 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 1/17/2010 XD9302 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 1/17/2010 XD9311 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 3/26/2010 XD9312 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/27/2010 XD9401 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm 3/10/2010 XD9402 Tactical / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 9/6/2010 XD9404 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm 6/23/2010 XD9405 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 12/3/2010 XD9411 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm 3/26/2010 XD9412 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 3/26/2010 XD9501 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 12/3/2010 XD9502 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 12/3/2010 XD9504 / Polymer, Carbon Steel Pistol 4.05" .45 3/23/2010 XD9505 / Polymer, Carbon Steel Pistol 5.01" .45 3/23/2010 XD9524 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 4' .45 GAP 9/26/2010 XD9525 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 GAP 9/26/2010 XD9611 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/17/2010 XD9612 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 1/23/2010 XD9614 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/26/2010 XD9621 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/17/2010 XD9622 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 1/23/2010 XD9624 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/26/2010 XD9645 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/17/2010 XD9646 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 11/28/2010 XD9647 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 1/23/2010 XD9648 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/26/2010 XD9701 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" 9mm 5/9/2010 XD9702 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .40 S&W 9/6/2010 XD9704 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" 9mm 8/26/2010 XD9781 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" 9mm 3/17/2010 XD9782 / Polymer, Carbon Steel Pistol 4" .40 S&W 3/17/2010 XD9801 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm 3/19/2010 XD9802 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 10/25/2010 XD9810 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm 7/29/2010 XD9811 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm 4/7/2010 XD9812 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 3/10/2010 XD9821 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 3.1" 9mm 3/23/2010 XD9822 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 3.1" .40 S&W 2/18/2010 XD9831 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm 3/26/2010 XD9832 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 3/26/2010 XD9842 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 3/26/2010

EE_ | 12-19-2009 04:07 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Jefferson (Post 2084672) Lots o' "experts" on here that don't know what they're talking about. The XD is not only legal in California, but a very good choice, with many configurations available to choose from: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ XD9101 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 10/21/2010 XD9102 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 12/20/2010 XD9103 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .357 SIG 12/20/2010 XD9104 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 3/21/2010 XD9109 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/21/2010 XD9113 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .357 SIG 3/26/2010 XD9121 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" 9mm 1/23/2010 XD9122 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 1/23/2010 XD9131 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm 1/23/2010 XD9132 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 11/28/2010 XD9161 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 11/20/2010 XD9162 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 11/20/2010 XD9201 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 3/26/2010 XD9202 / Composite, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/26/2010 XD9221 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08 9mm 1/23/2010 XD9222 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 1/23/2010 XD9231 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/26/2010 XD9232 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 3/26/2010 XD9261 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/26/2010 XD9262 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/26/2010 XD9301 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 1/17/2010 XD9302 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 1/17/2010 XD9311 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 3/26/2010 XD9312 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/27/2010 XD9401 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm 3/10/2010 XD9402 Tactical / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 9/6/2010 XD9404 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm 6/23/2010 XD9405 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 12/3/2010 XD9411 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9mm 3/26/2010 XD9412 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S&W 3/26/2010 XD9501 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9mm 12/3/2010 XD9502 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 12/3/2010 XD9504 / Polymer, Carbon Steel Pistol 4.05" .45 3/23/2010 XD9505 / Polymer, Carbon Steel Pistol 5.01" .45 3/23/2010 XD9524 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 4' .45 GAP 9/26/2010 XD9525 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 GAP 9/26/2010 XD9611 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/17/2010 XD9612 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 1/23/2010 XD9614 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/26/2010 XD9621 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/17/2010 XD9622 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 1/23/2010 XD9624 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/26/2010 XD9645 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/17/2010 XD9646 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 11/28/2010 XD9647 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 1/23/2010 XD9648 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/26/2010 XD9701 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" 9mm 5/9/2010 XD9702 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .40 S&W 9/6/2010 XD9704 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" 9mm 8/26/2010 XD9781 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" 9mm 3/17/2010 XD9782 / Polymer, Carbon Steel Pistol 4" .40 S&W 3/17/2010 XD9801 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm 3/19/2010 XD9802 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 10/25/2010 XD9810 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm 7/29/2010 XD9811 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm 4/7/2010 XD9812 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 3/10/2010 XD9821 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 3.1" 9mm 3/23/2010 XD9822 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 3.1" .40 S&W 2/18/2010 XD9831 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3" 9mm 3/26/2010 XD9832 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 3/26/2010 XD9842 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 3/26/2010
Well, I stand corrected. I was looking at a reputable dealer 1 1/2 years ago and was told different.

mrnhtbr2232 | 12-19-2009 05:37 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF 2 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 2084574) Just guessing here, but I assume that the OP is new to handguns. My vote would be for a .357 mag revolver with a 4" barrel. Easy to become proficient with, it can use a variety of ammo types (from punching paper in .38 spl to hunting rounds in .357 mag), cheap to feed and has great lethality with the right choice of ammo. My 2nd recommendation would be either the Glock or Springfield XD in 9mm or .40 cal.
Agreed. Here at the Ponderosa the Mrs. loves her combat S&W 686. Not meant for all occasions, but as a home defense weapon center of mass it's a guaranteed manstopper and easy to aim true and fire. For a woman she took right to it and can group 3 inches at 25 feet. Not much kick, and a ferocious blast to scare the shit out of anyone still alive in the vicinity. And yeah, the gun subforum would be more appropriate for this thread but couldn't help it - I've got a woody for Smith and Wesson firearms.

Ritual | 12-19-2009 06:18 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF THIS is what you need. REAL stopping power.:36_1_34: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1-8bCuL3CE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1-8bCuL3CE

Tallships | 12-19-2009 06:27 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF http://www.gunblast.com/SWSigma9.htm A lower priced copy of the glock by smith and wesson.

State of Jefferson | 12-19-2009 06:32 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 2084870) A lower <s>priced</s> quality copy of the glock by smith and wesson.
Smith & Wesson has no equal when it comes to revolvers. The Sigma, however, is a dud.

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<SLV> | 12-19-2009 09:42 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Whatever you do, do NOT get the Taurus semi-auto! I helped a friend pick one out for a good value, but it won't fire all ammo all the time -- it is a complete dud. Their revolvers are fine, though.

Highwayman | 12-19-2009 11:10 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF He asked what the best beginner house/defense handgun was for someone who needs (a) affordability (b) ease of use, and (c) female friendly. He didn't ask what our favorite guns were.. or what the best gun for an experienced hand gunner was.. A Ruger or Smith and Wesson .38 special or .357 revolver is what you need my friend. Such wheelguns are likely over 50% of "first" handguns sold to men, and probably 95% of "first" handguns sold to women. IMO, you don't need a semi-auto (to many steps to make go "bang", jams possible, not woman-suitable).. even less so a Glock (no external safety, thus not beginner/woman-suitable) Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula (Post 2083926) .38 snubnose. Pink if youre a girl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdWater (Post 2083959) A small snub nose revolver for ease of use, reliability and concealment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbgunner (Post 2084079) If you plan on just getting familiar enough to operate it and maybe a few plinking sessions throughout the year then I'd suggest a revolver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 2084083) After shooting different guns and being honest about capabilities , coordination and fears of a clip jamming I picked a S&W 38 revolver.
Common sense prevails.. .

Highwayman | 12-19-2009 11:52 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Jefferson (Post 2084877) Smith & Wesson has no equal when it comes to revolvers.
ahemrugerahem

The Argent Dragon | 12-19-2009 11:54 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Moving thread to the Firearms section.

Twisted Avatar | 12-20-2009 12:16 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnhtbr2232 (Post 2084789) Agreed. Here at the Ponderosa the Mrs. loves her combat S&W 686. Not meant for all occasions, but as a home defense weapon center of mass it's a guaranteed manstopper and easy to aim true and fire. For a woman she took right to it and can group 3 inches at 25 feet. Not much kick, and a ferocious blast to scare the shit out of anyone still alive in the vicinity. And yeah, the gun subforum would be more appropriate for this thread but couldn't help it - I've got a woody for Smith and Wesson firearms.
Dam that thing is a BEAST Showing it in a holster is enuff to make any sane person haul @$$ dubble time in the opposite direction. It was worth every penny and then some. T

Bigfoot | 12-20-2009 03:17 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF First, good job on making the decision that it is time to buy a firearm. Even without SHTF, you should have one. Many people have endorsed the Glock, and I will too. It is my first choice as an automatic handgun, because it's tough, lightweight, and doesn't jam easily. Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 2084232) Just get any gun and shoot often. All guns are great for shooting at bad guys in SHTF.
Ruprick is totally correct. Having any weapon, is much better than not having a weapon. Even a 22 revolver is nothing to laugh at, especially the eight shot models. I also recommend that after you buy your firearm, that you find the most similar airsoft pistol you can, and train with that in your own home. It's an inexpensive and practical way to really bring up your shooting skills.

illuminate10 | 12-20-2009 04:04 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnhtbr2232 (Post 2084789) Agreed. Here at the Ponderosa the Mrs. loves her combat S&W 686. Not meant for all occasions, but as a home defense weapon center of mass it's a guaranteed manstopper and easy to aim true and fire. For a woman she took right to it and can group 3 inches at 25 feet. Not much kick, and a ferocious blast to scare the shit out of anyone still alive in the vicinity. And yeah, the gun subforum would be more appropriate for this thread but couldn't help it - I've got a woody for Smith and Wesson firearms.
*sigh*........my first, I admit I was smitten and had to take her home when I saw her. The beautiful 686 with the 4" barrel. Exactly the same one I have, though I have the option to switch to my crimson trace laser grips if need be :RockOn: Matter of fact I put it up for sale recently but i'll fix that :yes:

morganchaser | 12-20-2009 05:21 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF If it's for SHTF: CZ-52 No question. Best police state gun. If it's for Obama-ville times: CZ-82 If it's for today: Ruger LCP.

Patriotme | 12-20-2009 09:07 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Find a gun that fits you well. One size doesn't fit all. I'm not a Glock person but I have to admit for a SHTF situation a Glock 9mm is a good choice. There's a lot of them out there. Parts are plentiful and a lot of people know how to work on them. 9mm is also one of the most popular rounds out there and while it's not the world's best defensive round it has gotten the job done for about 100 years. An M1911A1 style pistol would be my second choice. There's probably less .45ACP ammo out there than 9mm, you mentioned a woman would be shooting it (recoil might be too much for a newbie) and magazine capacity is limited. Like the Glock there are a lot of people that know how to work on .45's and the .45ACP round has been a proven defensive caliber for about 100 years. The grips are narrow so a female's hands may fit an M1911A1 style pistol better than a Glocks. Again, one size doesn't always fit all. Third choice. A .357 Magnum with a six inch barrel. You can shoot both .38 Specials and .357 Magnum rounds in a .357. It's simple, reliable (with even crappy ammo) easy to learn on and you double you chance of finding ammo by being able to use 2 different calibers. You can shoot the wimpiest .38 Special ammo that you can find for learning to shoot or training a spouse. Then move up to more powerful .38's or .357 rounds. You can find .357's that hold 6 (most common), 7 or even 8 rounds. As (I believe) California has a ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds you really aren't that worse off with a revolver and speed loaders. Think about getting a second handgun in .22 cal and buy a ton of cheap ammo for when you can't find the larger calibers. Practice, practice, practice.

Patriotme | 12-20-2009 09:19 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Things that weren't mentioned before: If you buy a semi automatic make sure that you break it in very well. Some pistols have a 300-600 round break in period. Some semi autos are ammo picky or magazine picky. Make sure you run a decent amount of whatever ammo that you are stockpiling through your gun to check for reliability. Women generally have both smaller and weaker hands then men. Some women have difficulty racking the slide on a sem auto. Others find the grips too fat on a high capacity handgun. Is your spouse going to have the hand strength to operate a semi automatic? Revolvers are generally very reliable with even the nastiest ammo out there. They are simple to operate even under stress. They do however sometimes malfunction. I've seen two revolvers (friend's guns) this year that regularly have the cylinder bind up after a couple of boxes of ammo have been shot through them. This isn't a hard thing to fix but it needs to be looked for. A lot of people go to the range and only shoot a box or two so they never really run across this problem. Sometimes women with small hands may have a hard time reaching the trigger on a revolver if the grips are large. One more thing, if your revolver has a 5-6 lb single action trigger pull then anyone can squeeze the trigger when it's cocked. If it has a 10-12lb double action trigger pull a woman may not be able to easily squeeze the trigger unless she shoots single action. If you are buying it for SHTF then I'm going to assume it's not for daily carry. It's for when rioting occurs, after earthquakes, economic collapse, whatever. A full size handgun would probably be the best choice for SHTF since you have a longer sighting radius, higher magazine capacity and more weight (less recoil). If you expect to carry it concealed for normal situations then some of the small handguns other's recommended would probably be a better choice. Take some time and shop around, try a lot of guns. While a Glock is my first choice for a SHTF handgun there are many other polymer frame handguns out there that have changeable grips. Springfield's XDM (I have one) and S&W's M&P are two popular guns that have grips that can be adjusted for different hand sizes. This might make the difference in finding a hi capacity semi auto that fits a small handed female. I believe I saw an article or rumor that Glock was going to offer this feature over the next year or so.

livtocruz | 12-20-2009 09:58 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF The wife and I will be getting our guns this week, on Tuesday. We both picked the Bersa make for comfort, weight, good price and the great reviews that we found online. They also feel "right". I've been researching handguns for the past few months and am pleased with our choices. Hers is the Thunder 380 ACP, 7 round, mine is the Thunder 9, Ultra Compact, 13 round. Both are similar in size and weight, I'll post a few pictures on Wednesday or Thursday. We've already got some ammo and are getting ready to go to a gun show to see if we can get a few hundred rounds each for the range and stock piling. Will also check to see if anyone is selling any silver rounds. I wanted to get the same caliber for both of us but she really wanted the 380. I also went Bersausa.com and bought a few more magazines. Hers only comes with one, while mine comes with two.

Tallships | 12-20-2009 11:15 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF http://z.about.com/d/hunting/1/0/a/G/sw_460xvr_w.jpg

livtocruz | 12-20-2009 01:00 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Ts, I saw a few of those at Cabela's and at the gun show. The ones at Cabela's were .50 cal, the ones at the gun show I didn't check out ao I don't know the calibers. Any way, the wife and I procured 300 rounds of 9mm Luger for $90 and 200 rounds of 380 ACP for $110. I hope a previous poster was correct in saying that once there are sufficient stock piles of 9mm then the manufacturers will be making more 380 ACP. The price really needs to come down on this round so I can pick up a 1000 or more rounds. No luck on the silver rounds, bummer.

LukeNM | 12-20-2009 02:55 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF I am a Glock guy all the way and for yourself I would say the M19. But, for a pistol to be shared with someone that has smaller hands I would have to rethink that and suggest a full size Springfiled Armory XD or XDm with the interchangeable backstrap on the grip that will accommodate different size hands. Either one with a Blackhawk Serpa holster, a few extra mags and some ammo and your ready to go.

stormholloway | 12-21-2009 12:50 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF I just inherited a S&W Lady Smith .38 Special from my grandma. The name is pretty girly but it's a pretty fine little pistol. Anyone know anything about it?

democopy | 12-21-2009 10:56 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Revolver or Semi Auto for first gun?

democopy | 12-21-2009 10:57 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by stormholloway (Post 2086907) I just inherited a S&W Lady Smith .38 Special from my grandma. The name is pretty girly but it's a pretty fine little pistol. Anyone know anything about it?
Lady Smith

SilverCity | 12-21-2009 12:07 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by democopy (Post 2087317) Revolver or Semi Auto for first gun?
A quality .22 pistol (Ruger MKII) or .22 revolver (S&W), would be an excellent first handgun. Cheap to shoot, minimal recoil will help you focus on developing proper form. When a good level of proficiency is achieved, THEN you can step up to heavier calibers, one you can shoot EFFECTIVELY. Revolvers: Ruger or Smith& Wesson 38/357,44 or 45 Pistols: Glock, Beretta 92, Sig Sauer, Springfield XD, etc. 9mm, 40SW, 45ACP. For normal self-defense, a revolver is usually sufficient. For SHTF, a HIGH CAPACITY auto pistol with plenty of spare, loaded mags is the ticket.

ToBeSelfEvident | 12-21-2009 01:44 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF First gun should be a revolver. They are safe, reliable, and simple to use when the adrenaline is pumping. Point, pull trigger, call 911 to come clean up the mess. Smith&Wesson in .38 or .357

farscott | 12-21-2009 02:42 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Okay, the thread title mentions SHTF and the text says, Quote:
Newbie needs advice for buying a decent hand gun in California. Brand ? Price ? Easy of Use ? Women friendly ?
My suggestion is a .22 LR revolver, probably a S&W 617. Nothing is easier to learn to use, cheaper to shoot, quieter, more informative, and more fun except maybe a Ruger Mark II. With a handgun, placement is everything, and I rather have a .22 I can hit with than a .45 I cannot. Seriously, everyone's first handgun should be a .22 so that one can learn the basics without picking up bad habits like flinches, trigger slapping, etc. Start with the .22 and then move up to centerfire handguns. Keep the .22 for practice and fun even after getting a centerfire revolver. If the 617 is the first gun, then the S&W 686 makes sense as the centerfire gun as it uses the same grip frame and manual of arms. Revolvers are also better as one's brass stays with the gun, so it is easier to find it for reloading or disposal. If one is not going to be a frequent shooter, revolvers are easier to use and keep running. After all, how often does one need to change the springs on a revolver? My 1947 Colt Official Police still uses the original springs that were installed in Hartford. My 1976 Colt Government Model gets new springs every year. In addition, a good .22 will be worth its weight in gold if the SHTF as one can feed himself with small game dropped by the .22. Small game dropped by .357 Magnum hollowpoints is just not that good as the small pieces are hard to collect, clean, and cook. One can carry 500 rounds of .22 a lot easier than 50 rounds of .357 Magnum. The low report of the .22 is also a blessing as one can shoot without hearing protection, especially if one is shooting ammo like .22 CB Longs. This is where the revolver shines as it can shoot any of the .22 LR variants with no issues, including .22 Short, .22 Long, .22 CB Long, and .22 Long Rifle. Try that with an autoloader, and you may have a very nice single-shot. My SHTF revolvers are 5.5-inch Freedom Arms 97s in .22 LR and .357 Magnum. These are accurate guns that make handgunning easy, and they use the same holster. But I would be just as well armed with an S&W M617 and M686.

Patriotme | 12-21-2009 05:31 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF :clap2: I got a Bersa for my wife years ago. It was a fine gun and we had absolutely no complaints with it. It would have been nice to have gotten the same ammo for both guns but you made the wife happy and if she's on board for the SHTF stuff it makes life a whole lot easier. My wife's was a 7 shot Model 383A. We kept a round in the chamber and 5 in the mag. There were never any magazine problems. Some say to leave the mags topped off and that the weakening springs in fully loaded stored mags is a myth. I don't believe that's always true for all guns but to each his own. You might want to eventually consider a long arm sometime in the future. Quote:
Originally Posted by livtocruz (Post 2085712) The wife and I will be getting our guns this week, on Tuesday. We both picked the Bersa make for comfort, weight, good price and the great reviews that we found online. They also feel "right". I've been researching handguns for the past few months and am pleased with our choices. Hers is the Thunder 380 ACP, 7 round, mine is the Thunder 9, Ultra Compact, 13 round. Both are similar in size and weight, I'll post a few pictures on Wednesday or Thursday. We've already got some ammo and are getting ready to go to a gun show to see if we can get a few hundred rounds each for the range and stock piling. Will also check to see if anyone is selling any silver rounds. I wanted to get the same caliber for both of us but she really wanted the 380. I also went Bersausa.com and bought a few more magazines. Hers only comes with one, while mine comes with two.

____hoot____ | 12-21-2009 05:41 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF My opinion on handgun's is the same as the Quigley charactor that Tom Selick played; need I repeat it here? I have a 60$ pawn shop buy as my SHTF hand gun; yep one of themthere "Saturday Night Specials". A H&R 922 9 shot all steel double action revolver made in the USA in the 50s or 60s. Has a 4" barrel weighs 21 ounces and will shoot a 2-3" group at 25 yards. As easy to carry with a 100 rounds of ammo as most others just loaded.{just wish that H&R was still around and makeing a titanium top loading 999!!!}

johndoh | 12-21-2009 09:04 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by gogold (Post 2083917) Ok hand gun expert here in GIM, Newbie needs advice for buying a decent hand gun in California. Brand ? Price ? Easy of Use ? Women friendly ? PS: need handgun, not machine gun.:452:
We could do better than throw out random reco's, if we knew more about you... How much experience do you have? Are you a woman? Small hands? What do you think you're going to do with a handgun when SHTF? Are you in California (limits our suggestions)? No matter what...take some good, effective, defensive firearms training and keep it up a couple of times per year. The hardware you carry is nowhere near as important as your skills and knowledge. If you are in the Los Angeles area, PM me and I can recommend a great instructor who also has a female instructor on hand in his classes and his prices won't break the bank. If you're somewhat close to Oceanside, Iron Sights Range has probably the best rental gun selection around, plus they're good people who can also help you get started with some basic training if you're a total noob. Brand: depends what you shoot well and enjoy shooting. Before buying anything, go to a range or two and try out a bunch of rental guns. If you're new, skip the compact carry pistols. Good handguns to try: - Glock 17 (9mm), 21 (.45) or 22 (.40) - Smith & Wesson M&P in 9mm, .45 and .40 H&K USP in same calibers - one warning: the guns shoot real nice but H&K is notorious for having worst cust service in the biz - 1911's in .45: Springfield, Kimber, S&W, Dan Wesson (DW is easily the best quality for the price) there are many models and prices to choose from .38/.357 Revolvers with 4" or 6" barrel: - Ruger GP100 is an overbuilt beast that will outlive all of us - Smith & Wesson (older ones are great, new ones have funky safety) great cust service - Taurus Tracker is a good bang for the buck Easy to use: these are mechanical things and none require you to be a rocket scientist to shoot or maintain. The easiest is probably the Ruger GP100, Taurus or an older S&W revolver. High end 1911's are built to tight tolerances and therefore can be a little finicky, but they are not complicated. Most are designed to be stripped and reassembled in a couple of minutes, using only bare hands. Woman friendly?: depends on the woman. I love quality 1911's, but if I could only have one handgun for SHTF, it would probably be a Glock 21. But it'd be the backup for a 12ga shotgun. :favorites8:

livtocruz | 12-21-2009 10:04 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotme (Post 2087812) :clap2: I got a Bersa for my wife years ago. It was a fine gun and we had absolutely no complaints with it. It would have been nice to have gotten the same ammo for both guns but you made the wife happy and if she's on board for the SHTF stuff it makes life a whole lot easier. My wife's was a 7 shot Model 383A. We kept a round in the chamber and 5 in the mag. There were never any magazine problems. Some say to leave the mags topped off and that the weakening springs in fully loaded stored mags is a myth. I don't believe that's always true for all guns but to each his own. You might want to eventually consider a long arm sometime in the future.
I agree about the springs getting weakened by a fully loaded magazine. The Drill Sergeants always told us to keep our magazines short of one or two full rounds for the same reason.

TTAZZMAN | 12-21-2009 11:46 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 2083967) The Walther P99 - now that's a BEAUTIFUL option - if you can find one in CA, with the fairly rare 10-round magazines. I'd avoid the Bersa 380, not because it's THAT bad of a gun (It's grudgingly somewhat OK, from my experience, I sold mine anyway)... but rather because .380 ammo is VERY, VERY difficult to find right now.
just as a informational note....i got my walther p99 several years ago.....it came then with 2 10rnd factory mags....and a coupon to get 2 more 15rnd mags free....i bought several different aftermarket hicap mags none were as good as the factory mags.

Doge | 12-22-2009 01:04 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF No one can decide what's best for you, only you can. So go test fire everything you possibly can. Overall my logic is that any, or all of these, would be good choices.... http://www.gunshopfinder.com/springfield/PB9151L.jpg http://www.ozarkguns.com/Browning/Hi...II/051001m.jpg http://www.enemyforces.net/firearms/glock17.jpg http://www.gunshopfinder.com/smithan.../model686P.jpg

Fin-Angler | 12-22-2009 07:54 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF I like the .357 revolver option. The wheel gun advantages have been mentioned in previous posts. The ability to shoot .38,.38+P and .357 is a great benefit. Having multi-caliber options can let you practice & train w/.38 at less cost & recoil. You can also have more than enough stopping power with some of the .357loads. In the event of severe ammo shortage you have 3 different round options all common calibers.

Mike C | 12-22-2009 02:32 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF All these people recommending a 1911 for a new gun person are silly. Why in the WORLD would a new gun owner want a gun that is: 1) expensive for what it is 2) holds less rounds than most others 3) is far more complicated than most other handguns 4) is bulky 5) takes a manuel to figure out how to break it down Keep it simple! 1911's are for people that target shoot and are very well rounded in guns. Get a gun that when you pull the trigger, the gun fires. No silly "safety" buttons to push, because if you ever have to actually USE your weapon, that safety is going to get you KILLED, because you will FORGET to push it unless you TRAIN to know it needs to be pushed(most casual carriers will not train hard enough to train their mind to this, so it is a false safety issue). There's been some good recomendations, but I will add that the Glock 19 is a great weapon on many levels. It's very common, inexpensive, carries a lot of rounds, is not that heavy, shoots as accurate as you need it to, and can carry many size magazines. Any glock for that matter is a good choice. The .38 snub nose is also a great carry piece. The odds that you will NEED more than 5 rounds, or that you would actually SHOOT more than 5 rounds are slim, but it IS a consideration. I carry a Glock 27 and a Smith & Wesson 340PD as my back up/ carry guns. I'm going for the lightest J frame revolver I can get since I have to lug it around daily, the difference in ounces is WELL WORTH the difference in price. I keep .38+P rounds in the snub. The .38 snub isn't for trying to stop a bunch of gunmen holding up a bank that you are in, it's for that armed thug that is within arms reach of you robbing YOU. I actually keep a Glock 19 with a TLR-2 and a 33 round mag handy for home defense though.

gogold | 12-22-2009 10:08 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Thanks for the responses !! I took the suggestion from many of the people and went to a shooting range. Rented a Glock 19 and S&W M64 (.38). It was fun and exciting, consider it was my first. I had a lot of high expectation from the Glock 19 but didn't like it because it felt a bomb exploding at my face. It recoiled like crazy. I don't think I can get used to its power. But I really like the S&W M64 revolver, it felt a lot more controlled. Perhaps I need to go the range a few more times, renting different handguns before deciding to get one.

Gaillo | 12-22-2009 11:04 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by gogold (Post 2090073) Thanks for the responses !! I took the suggestion from many of the people and went to a shooting range. Rented a Glock 19 and S&W M64 (.38). It was fun and exciting, consider it was my first. I had a lot of high expectation from the Glock 19 but didn't like it because it felt a bomb exploding at my face. It recoiled like crazy. I don't think I can get used to its power. But I really like the S&W M64 revolver, it felt a lot more controlled. Perhaps I need to go the range a few more times, renting different handguns before deciding to get one.
Thank you for making this life-affirming decision, and for following through! I would HIGHLY recommend that you try a few more guns at the range and learn as much as you can at forums like this and people you will meet at the range before making your final decision. Regarding the Glock 19 feeling like a bomb exploding at your face, keep in mind that most modern handguns will have the same "feeling" at first, but you'll soon get used to it and finally realize that the explosion is directed away from you, toward your enemy, at which point you will start taking comfort in the phenomenon!

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DC7 | 12-23-2009 04:08 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Gogold, Quote:
Originally Posted by gogold (Post 2090073) Thanks for the responses !! I took the suggestion from many of the people and went to a shooting range. Rented a Glock 19 and S&W M64 (.38). It was fun and exciting, consider it was my first. I had a lot of high expectation from the Glock 19 but didn't like it because it felt a bomb exploding at my face. It recoiled like crazy. I don't think I can get used to its power. But I really like the S&W M64 revolver, it felt a lot more controlled. Perhaps I need to go the range a few more times, renting different handguns before deciding to get one.
Right on. Keep it up..... has someone shown you how to shoot?

Patriotme | 12-23-2009 09:20 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by gogold (Post 2090073) Thanks for the responses !! I took the suggestion from many of the people and went to a shooting range. Rented a Glock 19 and S&W M64 (.38). It was fun and exciting, consider it was my first. I had a lot of high expectation from the Glock 19 but didn't like it because it felt a bomb exploding at my face. It recoiled like crazy. I don't think I can get used to its power. But I really like the S&W M64 revolver, it felt a lot more controlled. Perhaps I need to go the range a few more times, renting different handguns before deciding to get one.
Perhaps you should try a Glock 17 next time. It's a little longer so maybe that would help a little with recoil (probably not much). They also make a ported model but I cannot remember the model no. Then there's the Springfield XDM and S&W M&P. Both have grips that can be adjusted to fit your hand better. This might give you better control. Other manufacturers have this feature but these two seem to be very popular right now. Of course you could always look at a steel frame full size semi auto instead of the combat tupperware. The added weight of steel will help some with the recoil. Maybe a revolver is for you. If you liked it then there's nothing wrong with that. Check out some speed loaders next time you are at the range. You really can do some very fast reloads and the reliablity is definately better with revolvers. You don't have to worry about limp wristing the gun, picky mags, ammo picky guns, etc.

renegade_01 | 12-23-2009 10:21 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Well for conceal carry I can recommend the two that I carry. I carry a Glock 23 in a bianchi carry lock 82 hoster (on my hip) I'm 6' tall and weigh about 170lbs so I'm a slim guy, the glock conceals better on hip than my S&W 442 j-frame. The J-frame conceals better in a pocket holster...just to reak the print up. I recently got the Glock and have been carrying it more than my J-frame revolver. I like the Glocks for SHTF because parts will be readily available and they are well made guns. I also shoot a springfield 1911 GI and I prefer it over my others. The 45 seems to not have as much snap to it compared to the lighter Glock 23 shooting 40cal. Anyhow... buy em all and start a collection.

wallew | 12-23-2009 01:32 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF gogold, WELCOME TO THE GUN CULTURE. It's a long path. You have taken your first step. You have much to enjoy and learn. Friendships will form just because you have altered your perception of self protection. Again, WELCOME. We need as many people taking care of themselves as we can get. Because in the long run, YOU are the only person who can protect you.

SilverCity | 12-23-2009 01:51 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF QUOTE: I had a lot of high expectation from the Glock 19 but didn't like it because it felt a bomb exploding at my face. It recoiled like crazy. I don't think I can get used to its power.UNQUOTE Word: hand and arm strengthening exercises. Any substantial handgun is going to have substantial recoil. Be patient. With experience and practice you will be able to handle it. My wife carries the G19 with rubber grips to help hold on to the pistol and lessen felt recoil. I would recommend you work with an instructor, too.

johndoh | 12-23-2009 02:30 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 2091090) QUOTE:... I would recommend you work with an instructor, too.
+1 A good instructor will make shooting more fun and save you the frustration of breaking bad habits later on. If you're near the Los Angeles area, PM me for info on a great beginning self defense class. You might be happier sticking to the full size models until you've gotten more trigger time. A few soft shooting 9mm semi auto pistols to try are: Smith and Wesson M&P (but not the compact model) CZ 75b Sig p226 If you end up liking one of those, then you might want to try the Glock 17 for comparison. Congrats on taking that first step.

Operation Grief | 12-24-2009 05:31 AM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by Fin-Angler (Post 2088725) I like the .357 revolver option. The wheel gun advantages have been mentioned in previous posts. The ability to shoot .38,.38+P and .357 is a great benefit. Having multi-caliber options can let you practice & train w/.38 at less cost & recoil. You can also have more than enough stopping power with some of the .357loads. In the event of severe ammo shortage you have 3 different round options all common calibers.
Best of all: you don't leave any evidence (shell casings) with fingerprints behind.

renegade_01 | 12-27-2009 12:35 PM
Re: Buying Hand Gun for SHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by Operation Grief (Post 2092136) Best of all: you don't leave any evidence (shell casings) with fingerprints behind.
:yes: exactly

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