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bonaparte | 03-06-2009 10:27 PM
Gun Newbie, what/how to buy One item missing from my reserves in case the SHTF is a set of firearms. I was talking about this with one of my co-workers who is like minded and we determined I would probably need a handgun, shotgun and rifle of some sorts. I already have a 9mm handgun and a few hundred rounds of ammo, and I just wanted to supplement it with a rifle, which I hope never to use. So with my friends help I decided to buy a 556. I went to the gun shop he suggested and settled on a Bushmaster 556. Everything was great, I'm sure I would figure out how to use the thing (I actually planned to fire a couple hundred rounds through it at a range, and then to storage it would go, forever hopefully???). Then came form 4473. (Yes I'm a noob). I asked, "what is this?" and he explained it to me. I said no thanks and walked out of the store. So here is the problem: I want my gun ownership to be anonymous, which means buying from an individual or a gun show. I can't locate a person who is willing to sell me the type of firearm I desire, and I wouldn't know a good firearm from a bad one at a gun show, let alone a fair price. Any suggestions on how to go about this. I think I'm going to have to put together a list of acceptable firearms and price ranges and then try my luck at a show.

FireMattMillen | 03-06-2009 10:33 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy It really can't be explained well enough through an Internet post. I would get one of your friends to come with you to the next gun show, maybe offer to buy him dinner or something to perk his interest. Have your friend look at the gun you are considering. There are often "private parties" (i.e. individuals) selling guns at gun shows.

elroy | 03-06-2009 11:09 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy You must buy from an individual if you want to skip the 4473. All the dealers who set up at a gun show will also have the 4473 forms. There may be individuals selling at a show or try your local Trader Paper or other classified ad newspaper for private sales.

End of Hope | 03-06-2009 11:11 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by bonaparte (Post 1611896) One item missing from my reserves in case the SHTF is a set of firearms. I was talking about this with one of my co-workers who is like minded and we determined I would probably need a handgun, shotgun and rifle of some sorts. I already have a 9mm handgun and a few hundred rounds of ammo, and I just wanted to supplement it with a rifle, which I hope never to use. So with my friends help I decided to buy a 556. I went to the gun shop he suggested and settled on a Bushmaster 556. Everything was great, I'm sure I would figure out how to use the thing (I actually planned to fire a couple hundred rounds through it at a range, and then to storage it would go, forever hopefully???). Then came form 4473. (Yes I'm a noob). I asked, "what is this?" and he explained it to me. I said no thanks and walked out of the store. So here is the problem: I want my gun ownership to be anonymous, which means buying from an individual or a gun show. I can't locate a person who is willing to sell me the type of firearm I desire, and I wouldn't know a good firearm from a bad one at a gun show, let alone a fair price. Any suggestions on how to go about this. I think I'm going to have to put together a list of acceptable firearms and price ranges and then try my luck at a show.
I believe what you're asking is NEVER to be discussed in open forum, or among those you wouldn't risk your life to. In short, you need to be extremely careful and ask close friends, only. No Private Messages, nothing electronic whatsoever about this topic.

Caligula | 03-06-2009 11:26 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by bonaparte (Post 1611896) I just wanted to supplement it with a rifle, which I hope never to use........ .....I would figure out how to use the thing (I actually planned to fire a couple hundred rounds through it at a range, and then to storage it would go, forever hopefully???).
What the hell are you talking about?? Stop being a ninny, buy a rifle (PROUDLY), have fun and shoot the damn thing! Forms, schmorms. It is your right to own said rifle. 2nd Amendment. Stop being so worried and just do what you need to do, legally, to own it. Jeeeezzz.....:thumb.aspx:

Maddie | 03-06-2009 11:53 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Do your local gun clubs have bulletin boards with gun sales on them? I'd advise you to do your research. It doesn't take too long to learn what constitutes a good gun and what's not good, at least as far as the major concerns go. Research the brands and features that you're willing to buy, and don't impulse buy something else. I always carry a bore checker with me to gun shows so that I can take a good look at the barrel of any gun I'm interested in. Failing that, find a buddy who knows guns to go to the gun show with you, but if you don't really know guns well, you probably don't have any way of knowing how well your buddy really knows what he's talking about, and there are a lot of d@mn fool "experts" out there. You know, things are getting ugly out, and I expect we'll have another gun ban before long. If you can't find a private sale, fill out the form and buy the rifle! You can always take advantage of a private sale later if you find one, but you don't have a rifle now, and if you fool around long enough trying to find a private sale of just the right Bushie, you might never get a Bushie. I think everyone should have some guns via private sale, but we're not going to protect our rights by hiding all our guns and pretending we're not exercising our Second Ammendment rights. Oh, and when you do get the rifle, don't just put it in storage! Fire it regularly enough to maintain your skills with it!

bonaparte | 03-07-2009 12:11 AM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Hummm... listening to the last two posts I guess maybe I'm being a little too paranoid. I'm still going to find one used. I just think of other countries which kept records of gun owners (Canada) and what happened to them. I'm really not a big fan of willingly giving up that kind of information to the government, just like most people aren't calling uncle Sam to tell him of their latest PM purchase. On the shooting side of things, yeah I've fired plenty (last firearm I fired was a M60), but it just doesn't interest me much, although you are correct Maddie, practice beyond understanding my particular firearm would be beneficial.

Bill843 | 03-07-2009 12:38 AM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by bonaparte (Post 1611896) .... I would probably need a handgun, shotgun and rifle of some sorts. I already have a 9mm handgun and a few hundred rounds of ammo, and I just wanted to supplement it with a rifle, which I hope never to use. ...
I'm not convinced that rifles and shotguns are that necessary, unless you live where there's dangerous wild animals that a handgun isn't powerful enough to reliably kill. Of all the gun crime that occurs between people in the US, most of it is handguns being used at fairly close range, in urban areas. ---- As far as buying without any government record, the only way to do that is to buy arms illegally on the street. In all face-to-face sales, the seller of a gun should always keep a dated receipt of a sale to show that he sold the gun. If the gun is ever identified with any crime, the police will start off with the original purchaser, and then "follow the receipts" and the last known owner becomes the primary suspect. If you can't prove you sold the gun to someone else, you become the last known owner. -end-

igorthesmall | 03-07-2009 07:13 AM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy You can easily buy a gun at a gunshow without any paperwork or proof of ownership. Just get some cash and walk around the next gunshow, there will be plenty of regular people selling guns there just walking around. You take a risk, though. You might be getting a stolen gun with some bodies on it! Although the chance of finding an ar15 like that is pretty slim, obviously, lol.

Maddie | 03-07-2009 09:08 AM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1612091) As far as buying without any government record, the only way to do that is to buy arms illegally on the street.
Illegally? You do know that private sales are legal in most states, don't you? Bonaparte, while I completely agree that it's good to have some guns that don't have paper trails, consider that by the time that paper trail becomes a problem, it will almost certainly be illegal to have a gun that isn't registered, regardless of whether you bought it from a dealer or through a private sale, and you can bet with their knowing how many privately sold guns are out there, the penalties for not registering your guns will be high. That's the real danger, their knowing who has the guns and the likelihood that confiscation attempts will follow. Whether your gun has a paper trail or not, that's going to be the battle front for us: registration and confiscation. We and our guns (or at least our gun ownership) had better be out of the closet for that battle because we're all going to have to stand firm together and hold the line if we don't want to see our inalienable rights alienated.

Twisted Avatar | 03-07-2009 09:46 AM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 1612036) You know, things are getting ugly out, and I expect we'll have another gun ban before long. If you can't find a private sale, fill out the form and buy the rifle! You can always take advantage of a private sale later if you find one, but you don't have a rifle now, and if you fool around long enough trying to find a private sale of just the right Bushie, you might never get a Bushie. I think everyone should have some guns via private sale, but we're not going to protect our rights by hiding all our guns and pretending we're not exercising our Second Ammendment rights. Oh, and when you do get the rifle, don't just put it in storage! Fire it regularly enough to maintain your skills with it!
Sister Maddie speaks true...... Time is shorter than any of us would like to believe....... we are in a CODE RED situation where it more profitable to buy the gun NOW and figure it out AFTER the fact. I also wouldnt worry about the 4473 as that stays with the store owner(only)..... I have personally seen pallets on top of pallets of them ( Many Dealers bytch and moan because they take up ALOT of back room storage space) If they ever tried to do a roundup via those forms you can expect a sheetload of "shop fires" to start taking place with regularity. Also whatever you get..you must practice with. Buying a pair of goggles,water cap and speedos doesnt make me a world class swimmer. I must practice. Even if you dont want to waste ammo pick up a boat load of snap caps and dry fire your guns every few days. Practice makes perfect. T

bonaparte | 03-07-2009 10:36 AM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 1612346) Illegally? You do know that private sales are legal in most states, don't you? Bonaparte, while I completely agree that it's good to have some guns that don't have paper trails, consider that by the time that paper trail becomes a problem, it will almost certainly be illegal to have a gun that isn't registered, regardless of whether you bought it from a dealer or through a private sale, and you can bet with their knowing how many privately sold guns are out there, the penalties for not registering your guns will be high. That's the real danger, their knowing who has the guns and the likelihood that confiscation attempts will follow. Whether your gun has a paper trail or not, that's going to be the battle front for us: registration and confiscation. We and our guns (or at least our gun ownership) had better be out of the closet for that battle because we're all going to have to stand firm together and hold the line if we don't want to see our inalienable rights alienated.
Yeah registration is certainly a precursor to confiscation, which would be a precursor to full unchallengeable government control. Honestly, if registration comes it is hard to know which is more risky: 1. Holding a firearm which the government doesn't know about and the penalty in case they do find out, or 2. Registering the firearm and possibly losing it at a future date, which is probably when you would actually need it the most. I know my thoughts are easily criticized here.

hoarder | 03-07-2009 10:41 AM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy There are actually lots of individuals who are not dealers that rent tables at gun shows, I have done this several times and also bought from non-dealers at tables many times. Sometimes a private seller will demand to see your drivers license if he bought the gun in his name.

koyaanisqatsi | 03-07-2009 11:17 AM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by igorthesmall (Post 1612269) You can easily buy a gun at a gunshow without any paperwork or proof of ownership. Just get some cash and walk around the next gunshow, there will be plenty of regular people selling guns there just walking around. You take a risk, though. You might be getting a stolen gun with some bodies on it! Although the chance of finding an ar15 like that is pretty slim, obviously, lol.
I had a home burglary at around Christmas time, 2006. The gang of thieves stole 340lbs (all) of my survival gear including: .308 DPMS LR-308 Panther 24" ss bull barrel and many fine accessories Taurus 101 .40cal auto pistol Bulgarian Makarov 9mm pistol Browning Buckmark classic .22 pistol Complete reloading setup, all powder, primers, cases, dies, magazines, etc. :thumb.aspx: All my stolen guns were puchased by me initially with the required dealer paperwork. Yet the police were overworked and it took me 3 weeks to meet the detective assigned to the case ... he told me they would probably end up at gun shows, sold under the table ... the detective was NO HELP as he filled out papers and gave up hunting my guns. You may see my guns now at any gun show. The police did not have any easy way to find the serial #s on my guns, the paperwork was all at the dealer's file level as is normal in my state. I just sold a Taurus pistol slightly used to a good friend. To protect myself I drew up a Bill of Sale with state DL#s and signatures, noting the County Sheriff's attached Permit to Purchase a Handgun attached -- very important to me as a seller to avoid future responsibility/liability for that gun I released to him. That permit requirement is now state LAW, for HANDGUNS only, so break it at your peril as a seller... He (the buyer) had no problem, was glad because I can tip him off with a phone call if the authorities come to sieze that Taurus Judge one day. Right now no one but me knows he is well armed. If his car is searched and he is asked to prove ownership, he has my documented bill of sale to protect himself. He can sell or pawn my/his gun legally hereafter. This is how I deal with the laws as they are now. As a newbie, I'd suggest you just buy a simple 4" barrel .38 Special +p or .357 revolver (security guard type) if you are unsure of a good INITIAL general purpose starter gun for basic on-hand contingency, safety, and easy training. (just my friendly opinion) :ok:

Twisted Avatar | 03-07-2009 11:36 AM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by bonaparte (Post 1612419) Yeah registration is certainly a precursor to confiscation, which would be a precursor to full unchallengeable government control. Honestly, if registration comes it is hard to know which is more risky: 1. Holding a firearm which the government doesn't know about and the penalty in case they do find out, or 2. Registering the firearm and possibly losing it at a future date, which is probably when you would actually need it the most. I know my thoughts are easily criticized here.
NEVER TURN IN YOUR GUNS..........EVER.......... THEY DAY YOU DO IS THE DAY YOU ACKNOWLEDGE A POWER HIGHER THAN YOUR GOD THAT GAVE YOU YOUR FREEDOMS!!!! T

Maddie | 03-07-2009 11:48 AM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1612488) NEVER TURN IN YOUR GUNS..........EVER.......... THEY DAY YOU DO IS THE DAY YOU ACKNOWLEDGE A POWER HIGHER THAN YOUR GOD THAT GAVE YOU YOUR FREEDOMS!!!! T
Amen, Brother TA! :bear_thumb:

End of Hope | 03-07-2009 12:10 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by bonaparte (Post 1612419) Yeah registration is certainly a precursor to confiscation, which would be a precursor to full unchallengeable government control. Honestly, if registration comes it is hard to know which is more risky: 1. Holding a firearm which the government doesn't know about and the penalty in case they do find out, or 2. Registering the firearm and possibly losing it at a future date, which is probably when you would actually need it the most. I know my thoughts are easily criticized here.
You won't get any of that criticism from me. "Illegal" means nothing in the moral scheme of things any more. My only concern is "risk management." "Shall not be infringed" is our battle cry, and, indeed, when you need it most is when they want to take it away.

koyaanisqatsi | 03-07-2009 12:12 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1612488) NEVER TURN IN YOUR GUNS..........EVER.......... THEY DAY YOU DO IS THE DAY YOU ACKNOWLEDGE A POWER HIGHER THAN YOUR GOD THAT GAVE YOU YOUR FREEDOMS!!!! T
:ok: You are correct friend, TA. Did I tell you I have a canoe and take river trips a lot? I honestly do ... and I carry a gun often. If the man don't buy that, my honest truth, to punish me for lost guns somewhere in that river, while they want the criminals and gestapo to have guns instead of me ... we ALL HAVE A BIG PROBLEM ... a slow and gradual RED DAWN! Along with TA and others here, it will be RED ALERT, man the battle stations, America is under the final stage of assault! As our pal HT might say, Game Over. :452::Surrender:

buff01 | 03-07-2009 02:53 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy first order of business is something concealable, which would be the handgun. You can't go wrong with any GLOCK 9mm model.

GoldWampum | 03-07-2009 04:26 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by buff01 (Post 1612781) first order of business is something concealable, which would be the handgun. You can't go wrong with any GLOCK 9mm model.
I prefer XD sub-compact, since it's a little safer to carry chambered, among some other little subtlties, but Glock is good. BTW: Private sale and gunshow still require NO paperwork here. Purchase from a store has a Fed call in but no registration. The store has a record however if their records are ever suppeenied.

bonaparte | 03-07-2009 05:31 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1612488) NEVER TURN IN YOUR GUNS..........EVER.......... THEY DAY YOU DO IS THE DAY YOU ACKNOWLEDGE A POWER HIGHER THAN YOUR GOD THAT GAVE YOU YOUR FREEDOMS!!!! T
Thus why I want to remain anonymous. If they don't know I have them, they probably won't come knocking at my door. I can see a law where merely having filled out a Federal form or having had registered a firearm would be considered "probable cause" to search your house if you happened not to turn in your firearms (or as many as the believe you should have). Yes that makes me a little more paranoid than most, but isn't the first rule of panicing to panic first? Quote:
Originally Posted by GW I prefer XD sub-compact
Springfield armory, yeah that's what I have in 9mm.

Contento | 03-07-2009 07:14 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy How did you buy the 9mm without filling out paperwork?

bonaparte | 03-07-2009 07:24 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Private sale, so I didn't know federal paperwork needed to be filed when I went to buy a new firearm.

Contento | 03-07-2009 07:46 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy Quote:
Originally Posted by bonaparte (Post 1613198) Private sale, so I didn't know federal paperwork needed to be filed when I went to buy a new firearm.
Well there you go, just call the guy you bought the 9mm from and tell him you want a 556! :ok: Another route is try googling your local area + "gun forum"/"Gun club"/"Firearm"/"shooting"/etc etc etc. Lots of different places have local-oriented gun forums

CQC McDuck | 03-08-2009 09:48 PM
Re: Gun Newbie, what/how to buy IMO, the BEST way to buy a gun without any paperwork is to network with like minded people, both online and offline, so that you might find a local private seller that is COMFORTABLE selling to you without any paperwork. There's a certain amount of risk for a seller selling a firearm to a complete stranger too you know...

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