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- - Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=431102)

TomD | 12-10-2009 10:28 PM
Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail This is the first time I've ever mentioned this to anyone. A conviction for domestic violence is cause for revocation of gun rights. In the mid-90's, in the 10 years between between my 1st wife and 2nd and last wife, I had a multi-year relationship (not marriage) with a woman whom my friends and family considered to be nuts, bordering on psychotic. Obviously I saw something there not visible to the others but this post isn't about that. A number of years in, it became apparent that the bad outweighed the good and that I had to make a change. I've been a hunter, target and competitive shooter for a long time. She knew that guns were a very important part of my life. She also knew about the legal ramifications of domestic abuse and frankly informed me that if I broke it off with her, she would convincingly file a charge against me. You guys don't know me by other than my posts and my pictures, but take my word that beating up on a woman is repulsive to my being. The last time I hit anyone was a fellow Marine who desperately deserved it back about 1970. It took a lawyer, sworn statements and peace warrants, all before she had time to activate her threats for me to survive that, but I did. I know that real domestic abuse is and always has been a tragedy. But how many people have been threatened with unwarranted accusation? With a lot of people like security guards, police, MPs, private security, etc, loss of gun rights is more than the loss of a hobby however how personally important; it's the loss of profession. How do you balance this?

Blorp | 12-10-2009 10:38 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Tom I don't know how to reply other than "the system sux". I've found that rule to be very biased, unfair, and abused. At the same time I've known tools on the other end of the spectrum who should not be near, much less in possession of, a firearm. I tend to err on the side of freedom and say let the arms flow. I think it is too easy to punish an innocent with litigation in today's environment. Pending charges can cause issues, even unfounded charges... Not cool... Just my .02.

Drumblebum | 12-10-2009 10:41 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail It sucks being closed out of a thread because somebody posts exactly what you would have said had you gotten the chance... :emotions16:

TomD | 12-10-2009 10:48 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by Blorp (Post 2069554) At the same time I've known tools on the other end of the spectrum who should not be near, much less in possession of, a firearm.
Absolutely that. My point is that all it takes is an accusation from a vindictive person to put a normal person in the proscribed category with potential serious harm to the accused person. I don't know what the solution is.

Blorp | 12-10-2009 10:51 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 2069579) Absolutely that. My point is that all it takes is an accusation from a vindictive person to put a normal person in the proscribed category. I don't know what the solution is.
Yeah, it is like a guilty before proven innocent situation. The system is broken. It is not right at all.

State of Jefferson | 12-10-2009 10:55 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail "Shall not be infringed" means exactly that. The Lautenberg Abomination is patently unconstitutional. Treason, even. All citizens have the right to firearms. Period. If someone violates another person's rights with a malum in se crime then they should be punished for that act, during the duration of which they would not have access to their firearms since they wouldn't be free to leave from their punishment. To be clear, I am not a wife beater (nor a malum in se criminal of any sort). I do not condone that act whatsoever, but I also recognize that it is easy to wrong someone with a fraudulent claim of "spousal abuse."

3x3l3r8 | 12-10-2009 10:58 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail TomD, being accused of something you didn't do is a tragedy. I am glad you got out of that (mostly) unscathed. It is a shame that some women use their "power" (for lack of a better word) in a way that degrades everyone. I don't know how you balance it, but staying away from the psychopathic women is a good way to avoid it. Also note that sometimes friends see relationship landmines more clearly. And if they take the time and possibly risk your friendship to tell you she's crazy, it's worth listening to.

Mantokir | 12-10-2009 11:13 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Welcome to the world of domestic violence. Where the guys are evil and women can do no wrong. You got seriously lucky she warned you first. Even a simple accusation can ruin your life.

Drumblebum | 12-10-2009 11:24 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantokir (Post 2069617) Welcome to the world of domestic violence. Where the guys are evil and women can do no wrong. You got seriously lucky she warned you first. Even a simple accusation can ruin your life.
It's not always the men that get screwed, especially if the man is a frickin puzzy... I've seen it happen to someone close to me.

TomD | 12-11-2009 12:22 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantokir (Post 2069617) Welcome to the world of domestic violence. Where the guys are evil and women can do no wrong. You got seriously lucky she warned you first. Even a simple accusation can ruin your life.
I knew a guy who was seriously beaten by his wife several times. She would wait until he went to sleep (passed out) and attack with heavy s*** like bricks and glass ash trays (she was alcoholic too but stayed up later). He was lucky to have survived it though he got stitches several times. What a bummer---

Willie Peter | 12-11-2009 12:48 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail "Women can do no wrong?" http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2009/1...ping-boyfriend

Patriotme | 12-11-2009 12:54 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail I had a friend that was accused of hitting his wife during an argument. A couple of weeks later he got her on tape admitting that she lied and he never touched her. He didn't get convicted of domestic assault but somehow was still required to take anger management classes. I still don't know how he got that. Unless you have witnesses are get something on tape you are pretty much screwed. A citizen should not lose a right forever over a misdemeanor.

killer2021 | 12-11-2009 12:59 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Yes its seriously f'ked up. The domestic violence laws were written in favor of women. Thats why the law is called Violence Against Women Act of 1994. Alot of guys who support these ridiculous gender biased laws don't even know that. The fact of the matter here is that domestic violence is wrong regardless of the gender. If a woman slaps you on the face, thats domestic violence and as such should be prospected to the fullest extent of the law. However, that rarely ever happens. As for wrongful accusations IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. Theres also alot of loop holes in the justice system. One such loop hole is in a statutory rape case. If you are accused of statutory rape you can either plead guilty or not guilty. If you plead guilty, you get less years in prison. If you plead not guilty you can face up to 20+ years in prison. Most attorneys recommend that you plead guilty, regardless because if you plead not guilty and you are found guilty you will be screwed big time. Thats why its so important to read up statutory rape and domestic violence laws. You need to protect yourself and many men don't do that. The good news is that alot of the evil traits of women are being exposed everyday. Women teachers banging underaged kids in school. Women killing their husbands/boyfriends and women committing other insanely violent acts. You Tube
You Tube

dysgenic | 12-11-2009 01:13 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail The domestic violence laws is the ugly sister of The War on Drugs. The 'epidemic' is just an excuse to circumvent our constitutional rights. The founding fathers got it exactly right: IV - Right of search and seizure regulated The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated (emphasis mine), and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. V - Provisons concerning prosecution No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law (emphasis mine); nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

Mantokir | 12-11-2009 06:36 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Peter (Post 2069748) "Women can do no wrong?" http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2009/1...ping-boyfriend
In the eyes of the domestic violence system , no. To them if a woman does something to a guy, then he obviously deserved it.

SWRichmond | 12-11-2009 06:47 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 2069579) Absolutely that. My point is that all it takes is an accusation from a vindictive person to put a normal person in the proscribed category with potential serious harm to the accused person. I don't know what the solution is.
I do. Abandon preemptive law in all its forms. You cannot venture into the realm of punishing someone for something they MIGHT do. Preemptive law has given birth to hate (thought) crime law as well.

TomD | 12-11-2009 08:17 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail In Stalin's Russia, all it took was an accusation and you were in Lubyanka being "questioned" until you confessed, and then it was bye-bye forever.

Twisted Avatar | 12-11-2009 09:37 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 2069579) Absolutely that. My point is that all it takes is an accusation from a vindictive person to put a normal person in the proscribed category with potential serious harm to the accused person. I don't know what the solution is.
I mourn the loss of my guns everyday officer. I was so careless. Dam shame.

MOD1 | 12-11-2009 09:58 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Tom, I wish I could offer some advice, but others have commented as I would have. Know that your situation transcends personal relationships. Teaching for a living, I'm continually reminded and on guard as to how any comment that I make, any deportment that I may project and any disclosure that I'm a human being with hobbies and interests outside of what I teach can and will negatively impact me and my career. No kidding. My student evaluations are always positive, but invariably contain written comments such as "you should joke around a little", "you appear unapproachable" and "don't you talk about anything other than the subject you are teaching?" I've had to develop a defense system that protects me and unfortunately, these comments are the result. Take care, Mod1

dysgenic | 12-11-2009 10:11 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by 3x3l3r8 (Post 2069598) TomD, being accused of something you didn't do is a tragedy. I am glad you got out of that (mostly) unscathed. It is a shame that some women use their "power" (for lack of a better word) in a way that degrades everyone. I don't know how you balance it, but staying away from the psychopathic women is a good way to avoid it. Also note that sometimes friends see relationship landmines more clearly. And if they take the time and possibly risk your friendship to tell you she's crazy, it's worth listening to.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but you used the term 'balance' (possibly unintentionally) which is a common justification of our oppressors when they take away our constitutional rights. We don't need to 'balance' anything if 'balancing' changes the presumption of innocence to guilt and allows for the subversion of due process rights and calls for legalizing unlawful search and seizure on private property. It's really that simple.

TUMS | 12-11-2009 10:13 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail I went to jail twice for domestic violence, way back when my sisters broke, bum of a boyfriend was living with us. We didn't get along at all. I still carry, hunt and shoot all the time. I have no felonies but I'm not sure if my gun rights are officially revoked and I don't care. I will still do what I do regardless of the stupid laws.

S_Goldberg | 12-11-2009 10:23 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
In the eyes of the domestic violence system , no. To them if a woman does something to a guy, then he obviously deserved it.
This is not true. In fact in recent years the same groups that have really a women only focus has begun to advertise and raise awareness of male victimization. The problem is many men do not report it because it makes them feel like an inadequate man. Whereas many women don't report it because they get f-ed up emotionally. While I agree that it seems easy to file charges for domestic abuse, do any of you have numbers that support your claim of false convictions? Otherwise this whole discussion is founded on nothing but supposition. And yes, I agree that women who are guilty of domestic violence should be prosecuted.

dysgenic | 12-11-2009 11:28 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 2070376) This is not true. In fact in recent years the same groups that have really a women only focus has begun to advertise and raise awareness of male victimization. The problem is many men do not report it because it makes them feel like an inadequate man. Whereas many women don't report it because they get f-ed up emotionally. While I agree that it seems easy to file charges for domestic abuse, do any of you have numbers that support your claim of false convictions? Otherwise this whole discussion is founded on nothing but supposition. And yes, I agree that women who are guilty of domestic violence should be prosecuted.
This ranks right up there as one of the worst posts in GIM history. Raise awareness of male victimization? Name all of the groups that do that, please. Show me the advertisement as well. I've never even seen one. Point out the legislation that was recently enacted pertaining to helping battered men. An order of protection or a domestic battery charge against a man does not require proof in order to remove a man from his own home and imprison him. Again, it requires no proof or evidence. Of course men 'report' it, if the cops are called by anyone- husband, wife, neighbor, and when the cop arrives it becomes obvious that SOMEONE is going to jail, do you honestly believe that most men would lie about being struck out of embarrassment in order to be seperated from their home and their children and thrown in jail? If you want statistics, this is what I suggest you do: take a woman with you to 100 different divorce attorneys and see how many ADVISE their clients to file false domestic battery charges against their husband as play to gain the upper hand in divorce proceedings. Wake up.

Mantokir | 12-11-2009 12:37 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 2070376) This is not true. In fact in recent years the same groups that have really a women only focus has begun to advertise and raise awareness of male victimization. The problem is many men do not report it because it makes them feel like an inadequate man. Whereas many women don't report it because they get f-ed up emotionally. While I agree that it seems easy to file charges for domestic abuse, do any of you have numbers that support your claim of false convictions? Otherwise this whole discussion is founded on nothing but supposition. And yes, I agree that women who are guilty of domestic violence should be prosecuted.
This website is just for false rape claims. http://www.falserape.net/falserapeafa.htm I've got more at home that I can post when I get there. If you're bored and really want to know the extent of it, go to www.glennsacks.com and have a look around. Lots of stuff on domestic violence, Parental alienation, false allegations, you name it.

War Pig | 12-11-2009 03:11 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Jefferson (Post 2069590) "Shall not be infringed" means exactly that. The Lautenberg Abomination is patently unconstitutional. Treason, even. All citizens have the right to firearms. Period. If someone violates another person's rights with a malum in se crime then they should be punished for that act, during the duration of which they would not have access to their firearms since they wouldn't be free to leave from their punishment. To be clear, I am not a wife beater (nor a malum in se criminal of any sort). I do not condone that act whatsoever, but I also recognize that it is easy to wrong someone with a fraudulent claim of "spousal abuse."
I considered it a (albeit small) piece of poetic justice when I heard that Lautenberg was one of the victims that was fleeced by Bernie Madoff.

TomD | 12-11-2009 04:49 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by War Pig (Post 2070901) I considered it a (albeit small) piece of poetic justice when I heard that Lautenberg was one of the victims that was fleeced by Bernie Madoff.
Yeah?! There is a God after all. It would have been perfect if Bernie had beaten him up in addition to screwing him.

pat pat | 12-11-2009 05:29 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail I feel your pain Tom D, had a friend in a similar boat, he never got it cleared, I suspect you being an ex-marine helped a lot in clearing you. regarding how to fix it. under common law, a criminal's first priority was to the victim. lets use the bounty hunter example Bounty hunter goes into to get a criminal, he makes a mistaken identity, and kills the wrong fellow. under common law his (the bounty hunter) responsibility is to the victim (since the victim is dead, it goes to the victim's family) in this case, he could owe 20+ years of servitude to the victims family, or a HUGE sum of money. now apply that your ex-girlfriend see, if you get caught filing a false report, imprisoning someone, etc under common law, it was a HUGE FINE and how did they enforce common law (no jails, except for the criminally insane)? if you walked away from your sentence (servitude or fine), well you revoked all your rights and protections, you had the same status as a rabbit under the eyes of the law, you were considered an "outlaw" (outside the law) todays system not only does not help the victim, it offers little in liability for liars and cheats...

3x3l3r8 | 12-11-2009 06:08 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic (Post 2070355) I'm not trying to pick on you, but you used the term 'balance' (possibly unintentionally) which is a common justification of our oppressors when they take away our constitutional rights. We don't need to 'balance' anything if 'balancing' changes the presumption of innocence to guilt and allows for the subversion of due process rights and calls for legalizing unlawful search and seizure on private property. It's really that simple.
I don't think you're picking on me, but you should read the last line of the original post. Reading is fundamental. :36_3_16: Seriously though, I am not sure if I would have used the word "balance" in my response, I was just trying to answer his question.

TomD | 12-11-2009 06:40 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by pat pat (Post 2071139) I feel your pain Tom D, had a friend in a similar boat, he never got it cleared, I suspect you being an ex-marine helped a lot in clearing you.
I didn't have to clear myself, she made a large tactical error in threatening me. I immediately went to an attorney and in addition got a peace warrant on her, a preemptive strike. That may sound extreme but I take my gun rights seriously. In Georgia, get even a misdemeanor domestic and you are SCREWED. Whether this is right or wrong is another discussion, reality is that you are. Also in Georgia, any sort of drug violation, including misdemeanor pot, gun rights gone for life, period. Whew!!!

immanti | 12-11-2009 07:13 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by SWRichmond (Post 2070052) I do. Abandon preemptive law in all its forms. You cannot venture into the realm of punishing someone for something they MIGHT do. Preemptive law has given birth to hate (thought) crime law as well.
Well said. Preemptively limiting people's freedoms based on what they "might" do is behind many of the ills of our societies and renders citizens as children of the State.

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Gold & Silver Forum - Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail

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dysgenic | 12-11-2009 07:15 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by 3x3l3r8 (Post 2071204) I don't think you're picking on me, but you should read the last line of the original post. Reading is fundamental. :36_3_16: Seriously though, I am not sure if I would have used the word "balance" in my response, I was just trying to answer his question.
Ok, let's take a look at exactly what you said, word for word: Quote:
Originally Posted by 3x3l3r8 TomD, being accused of something you didn't do is a tragedy. I am glad you got out of that (mostly) unscathed. It is a shame that some women use their "power" (for lack of a better word) in a way that degrades everyone. I don't know how you balance it, but staying away from the psychopathic women is a good way to avoid it. Also note that sometimes friends see relationship landmines more clearly. And if they take the time and possibly risk your friendship to tell you she's crazy, it's worth listening to.
Were you not insinuating that the domestic violence laws are a good thing, at least to some degree? Hence the word 'balance'?

3x3l3r8 | 12-11-2009 07:29 PM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic (Post 2071309) Were you not insinuating that the domestic violence laws are a good thing, at least to some degree? Hence the word 'balance'?
Please, please read the original post. Post #1. TomD's first post. Make sure you go all the way down to the very last line of it. After reading that, you will see why I used the word "balance". Now do you see that I was using that word specifically to answer his specific question? And to answer your question, of course I think there should be laws regarding domestic violence. I think it is clear in my original post that I do not agree with the abuse of these laws. My use of the word "balance" has nothing to do with my stance on domestic violence laws. Read TomD's original post (#1), and if you still need to pick at me for something, I am bound to start thinking that you're picking on me. I will not, however, report you to any authority. I won't expect an apology from you, but I'll give you a hug if you do.:23_1_22: I apologize all other viewers that this thread has been derailed because I used the word "balance".

dysgenic | 12-12-2009 01:09 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Quote:
Originally Posted by 3x3l3r8 (Post 2071329) Please, please read the original post. Post #1. TomD's first post. Make sure you go all the way down to the very last line of it. After reading that, you will see why I used the word "balance". Now do you see that I was using that word specifically to answer his specific question? And to answer your question, of course I think there should be laws regarding domestic violence. I think it is clear in my original post that I do not agree with the abuse of these laws. My use of the word "balance" has nothing to do with my stance on domestic violence laws. Read TomD's original post (#1), and if you still need to pick at me for something, I am bound to start thinking that you're picking on me. I will not, however, report you to any authority. I won't expect an apology from you, but I'll give you a hug if you do.:23_1_22: I apologize all other viewers that this thread has been derailed because I used the word "balance".
Ok, let's take a look at what Tom said in his first post concerning 'balance': Quote:
I know that real domestic abuse is and always has been a tragedy. But how many people have been threatened with unwarranted accusation? With a lot of people like security guards, police, MPs, private security, etc, loss of gun rights is more than the loss of a hobby however how personally important; it's the loss of profession. How do you balance this?
It seems to me that he is insinuating the same thing that I thought that you were insinuating... let me explain exactly what: It wasn't lawful to assault another human being before new laws were passed specific to domestic violence. Once the new domestic violence laws were passed, we now had 2 sets of laws (laws for assault that did not contain a domestic violence characteristic, and laws for assault that did have it). The difference between the 2 sets of laws is that one set allows for due process rights (old set), and one doesn't (new set). Again, domestic violence legisation did not make it illegal to assault one's spouse- it was already illegal. Based on that fact, when someone begins a question with this statement: I know that real domestic abuse is and always has been a tragedy followed by this sentence- But how many people have been threatened with unwarranted accusation, and eventually followed by the word balance, I must conclude that the 'balance' that he is referring to is the degree of subjugation of an individual's rights that is morally justified. Since you responded in kind to him, I must conclude that you were also referring to the same 'balance' that he was. My point is that it's NEVER justified to take away ANY of a persons due process rights. This is true for many reasons, not the least of which is that without due process rights any LEO can arrest a man living with another woman for anything that he/she chooses- or nothing at all, regardless of validity and without recourse to the innocent party even after the matter is adjudicated. Also, any woman can instantly make a criminal out of any man that they are in a domsestic relationship with simply by making a false accusation. Again, little to no recourse on the part of the victim.

buff01 | 12-12-2009 01:20 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail If a criminal is incarcerated, why should they be released back into society if they are not considered safe anyway? Someone with violent intentions does not need a gun to be violent. As far as I'm concerned, if someone has done the time, they should be 100% free to bear arms. Their other rights are not taken away for life once released, why should their right to protect themselves be taken away?

Gold Rules | 12-12-2009 01:30 AM
Re: Gun law, domestic violence and blackmail Bottom line is that wimmin lie & family court rubber stamps it .....because it is PC..........long past time to end this .......guys we got to vote out the judges in family court......:bear_thumb:

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