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Austrian Speculator | 03-31-2009 05:53 AM
My Starter Collection Fellow GIMers, I have been a lurker for some time now. I have learned a lot from these boards, but I now need some advice. I do not currently own a gun, and I am looking to purchase 4 or 5 in the next couple weeks. I have listed what I�m thinking of buying below. The first two seem like obvious picks due to availability and price of the gun and ammo. I need some advice on the shotgun and handgun. The AK/AR will come later if I can afford it. I have several thousand to spend on the guns and ammo, but I will also need to purchase a safe. Any and all advice accepted and greatly appreciated. My Starter Arsenal Ruger 10/22 � Cheap and easy starter rifle that I can run rounds through and teach my wife to shoot with. Mosin Nagant � Cheap and easy mid range rifle that is also easy to use and maintain. Would this be adequate for mid-size game (midwestern deer)? Shotgun � Nothing better for home defense, and also a great hunting gun. I�m looking for something inexpensive but still accurate enough for hunting and clay shooting. � Suggestions please Handgun � 9mm handgun � I like the lower recoil and cheap ammo so I can actually afford to practice with it. Suggestions please AK/AR � someday maybe. This will be my next purchase � if I can still get them when the money is available. Thanks in advance for your help.

farscott | 03-31-2009 06:14 AM
Re: My Starter Collection Good call on the 10/22. I am not a fan of the Moisin Nagant, but it works. Just too long for me. I rather have a Ruger 77 in .308 Win. Target price is under $450. For the shotgun, look for a used Remington 870 Wingmaster with the 2-3/4" chamber. These sell at a discount to the guns with the three-inch chamber, but are just as effective. It is hard to wear out an 870, so go by surface condition and just check that the shell latches are staked. Buy with a long barrel as they are cheaper as you can always get a new short barrel. The long barrel is better for hunting and clay target games. Target price is under $300. For a pistol, I suggest the Glock 17 for a 9x19 gun or an older S&W 681 or 686 in .357 Magnum. Either will provide years of service. The revolver should be less expensive. If you go for the Glock, buy lots of extra magazines. I have 20 of them and I do not even own a Glock. Of course, I have about 20 magazines for every pistol.

SLV>GLD | 03-31-2009 06:48 AM
Re: My Starter Collection Austrian: I like your picks. All are dependable and relatively cheap to procure and feed. Be the pickiest with the handgun, that's a bit more personal. Get a handgun for both you and your spouse. I'm in agreement with an Remington 870. As for the length of the Mosin, get a 91/59, they're about 1' shorter. My suggestion on a handgun is to pick a few that you think are your speed then find friends or a range that will let you try before you buy.

Twisted Avatar | 03-31-2009 07:16 AM
Re: My Starter Collection Quote:
Originally Posted by farscott (Post 1654912) Good call on the 10/22. I am not a fan of the Moisin Nagant, but it works. Just too long for me.
Dont they have a carbine model that is more along the lines of a "regular" rifle? T

CrufflerJJ | 03-31-2009 08:02 AM
Re: My Starter Collection 1 Attachment(s) I like your choices. When you get the 10/22, now would also be the time to pick up spare magazines (eeeeevil 25 round "high capacity", in addition to the 10 round standard size). Same thought with a Glock pistol - grab spare "normal capacity" mags while they're still available for $25 or so. For the Mosin Nagant, yes, they're along the lines of a .30-06 in terms of usefulness & recoil. If the full length MN91/30 is too long (and it would be a bit unwieldy in the brush), consider one of the carbine length weapons (MN38, MN91/59, MN44). The MN44 offers another advantage - after shooting a small furry critter, you can stick it on the bayonet & fry it with the muzzle blast (see attached pic) of your next round. A slip-on recoil pad makes these weapons MUCH friendlier to your shoulder. Remember that most surplus 7.62x54R ammo is corrosively primed, and needs special cleaning to prevent rusting out your rifle's bore.

electric-amish | 03-31-2009 09:25 AM
Re: My Starter Collection "...after shooting a small furry critter, you can stick it on the bayonet & fry it with the muzzle blast (see attached pic) of your next round..."http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...1&d=1238500834 That is a heck of a post HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH E-A

FireMattMillen | 03-31-2009 12:58 PM
Re: My Starter Collection Your choices closely resemble my small collection - I don't know if that's a good or bad sign for us. :10_1_20: Make sure your shotgun has a long barrel (like 26'' or 28'') - a very short barrel is not really for hunting or skeet shooting, it's pretty much for indoor home defense. The Mosin Nagant is not only powerful enough for deer, but most other animals that you might want to hunt in North America (i.e. elk).

steyr_m | 03-31-2009 01:30 PM
Re: My Starter Collection Well, I personally like your 10/22 choice. I'd lose the Mosin Nagant. Get a Rem. 870 Shotgun. Pick-up a good quality (LMT, RRA, equal) AR that can shoot 5.56 and not .223 Rem (the 5.56 has higher pressures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56x45....223_Remington). Get a high quality 9mm sidearm. You will want to stick with ammo that will best be in good supply. When the 7.62x54mmR ammo is out, you're MN will be no better than a club. If you stick with NATO ammo (as with the AR and 9mm), you'll have a better chance at feeding your weapons. You also want to stick to weapons that you can get parts if it breaks. I wanted to pick up a Swiss Arms CQB; but if it breaks.... where do I get parts for it if TSHTF? The last thing is, and I say this all the time, you get what you pay for. Go for quality. You want it to go "bang", every-time you pull the trigger. Here's my list of what I have and what I'm working towards. - H&K P7M8 in 9mm - LMT AR-15, with Magpul MIAD grip, ARMS 40L, LaRue 9" forestock, low-pro gas block, LMT SOPMOD Stock, LaRue Tactical SPR QD LT-104 and Nightforce 1-4 x 24 NXS. Rem 870 with 8" barrel (legal where I live) Rem 700 chambered in 300 Whisper (I know I contradict myself, but I reload. I can use .223 brass and cast 200 grain projectiles) Nightforce 3.5-15 x 50 NXS, H-S Precision stock, Badger Ord. muzzle break, Tactical Bolt Knob, and M5 Triggerguard.

SLV>GLD | 03-31-2009 02:10 PM
Re: My Starter Collection Quote:
Originally Posted by steyr_m (Post 1655592) Rem 870 with 8" barrel (legal where I live)
Wow! So the stock, unextended magazine tube juts out past the barrel? It seems the spread might even catch the tube on the way out. You could cut a man in half at 2 yards, blind him at 5 yards and just piss him off at 10 yards. I suppose you could load slugs but I'd say mag extensions are still out.

90%RealMoney | 03-31-2009 02:16 PM
Re: My Starter Collection Quote:
Originally Posted by steyr_m (Post 1655592) Well, I personally like your 10/22 choice. I'd lose the Mosin Nagant. Get a Rem. 870 Shotgun. Pick-up a good quality (LMT, RRA, equal) AR that can shoot 5.56 and not .223 Rem (the 5.56 has higher pressures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56x45....223_Remington). Get a high quality 9mm sidearm. You will want to stick with ammo that will best be in good supply. When the 7.62x54mmR ammo is out, you're MN will be no better than a club. If you stick with NATO ammo (as with the AR and 9mm), you'll have a better chance at feeding your weapons. You also want to stick to weapons that you can get parts if it breaks. I wanted to pick up a Swiss Arms CQB; but if it breaks.... where do I get parts for it if TSHTF? The last thing is, and I say this all the time, you get what you pay for. Go for quality. You want it to go "bang", every-time you pull the trigger. Here's my list of what I have and what I'm working towards. - H&K P7M8 in 9mm - LMT AR-15, with Magpul MIAD grip, ARMS 40L, LaRue 9" forestock, low-pro gas block, LMT SOPMOD Stock, LaRue Tactical SPR QD LT-104 and Nightforce 1-4 x 24 NXS. Rem 870 with 8" barrel (legal where I live) Rem 700 chambered in 300 Whisper (I know I contradict myself, but I reload. I can use .223 brass and cast 200 grain projectiles) Nightforce 3.5-15 x 50 NXS, H-S Precision stock, Badger Ord. muzzle break, Tactical Bolt Knob, and M5 Triggerguard.
When it comes to the Mosin Nagant, if you can get a rifle for a hundred bucks, and 440 rounds of sealed ammo for a hundred bucks, who cares? Most people who own one of these has purchased enough ammo to last them the rest of their life! I can appreciate buying quality and commonality, but a MN is a no brainer in my opinion.

steyr_m | 03-31-2009 02:21 PM
Re: My Starter Collection 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1655652) Wow! So the stock, unextended magazine tube juts out past the barrel? It seems the spread might even catch the tube on the way out. You could cut a man in half at 2 yards, blind him at 5 yards and just piss him off at 10 yards. I suppose you could load slugs but I'd say mag extensions are still out.
This is the one I'm picking up...

SLV>GLD | 03-31-2009 02:26 PM
Re: My Starter Collection Ah, interesting. So, Remington makes a modified magazine tube for this barrel combination. google is choking on my search terms, what is the magazine capacity and/or model number so I can research this? Maybe the slide assembly and barrel are both aftermarket?

90%RealMoney | 03-31-2009 02:26 PM
Re: My Starter Collection Damn! That'll get someone's attention!

steyr_m | 03-31-2009 02:33 PM
Re: My Starter Collection Yeah, you do have a point; but for a TSHTF weapon where there's Civil unrest (Look at Katrina, LA riots, and any major US city in the 60's) do you want to have a 9 pound, 48 inch long, bolt action, 5-round non-clip fed rifle and ammo for $200; or a light, compact, reliable, semi-auto, 30 round mag fed rifle for more? If it's a rifle to save my butt I'll plunk the extra $$$$ for an AR. Of the 4 guns I listed, I'd rather have the AR and H&K P7M8 and lose the other two. The Rem 700 and 870 are nice to haves....

steyr_m | 03-31-2009 02:35 PM
Re: My Starter Collection Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1655680) Ah, interesting. So, Remington makes a modified magazine tube for this barrel combination. google is choking on my search terms, what is the magazine capacity and/or model number so I can research this? Maybe the slide assembly and barrel are both aftermarket?
I'm buying it here. https://www.dlaskarms.com/

Big Country | 03-31-2009 03:56 PM
Re: My Starter Collection Your collection (or soon to be collection) is very similar to the one I currently have, though mine will be growing over the next few months as money rolls in I have a Remmington 870 Express combo package http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ess_combos.asp My father got me this when I was 16 for christmas, I'm 24 now. The gun is in great condition, has been shot many many many times. I've used it for clays, blackbirds, crows, deer (with the rifled slug barrel), bumblebees (we were bored...), and rabbits. I really recommend this gun because it can do so many things. I recently bought a Glock 17 for my wife and will be adding a second 9mm for myself in the next few months. I grab 9mm ammo anytime I can find it which is not very often, I look everytime I go to walmart and found 9mm 2 out of about 15 times, Cabela's is currently 1 out of 3 that they have any in stock. My "gun store" is sold out with "none in the foreseeable future".. I also recently added 2 full size mosin nagants to my collection and I'm looking to add a couple of M44's if I can find them in the next few months as well. I also purchased a Stag arms Ar-15 stripped lower, though do not have the rest of the rifle yet. This one is my project... We went out to the desert (Arizona...) last weekend and shot the mosins for the first time and I had no problem hitting water bottles at ~100m standing, I don't have a bench and haven't taken it to a "range" to get accurate groupings. I prefer the freedom of shooting in the desert and the rules at a structured range really limit my fun. Big Country Oh, and I'm surprised no one had said it yet. :15_1_70v: Welcome to GIM!

Ag_man | 03-31-2009 04:00 PM
Re: My Starter Collection Good choices, all. As previously mentioned, look for the MN M38 or M44 carbines. For the shotty, Mossberg or Remington, your pick. See if you can find a deal that offers 2 barrels, one for defense ~18" and a 26" barrel for hunting. Here's a tip, if you can find "good" deals on 7.62x39, buy it even before you get your AK.

Satyr | 03-31-2009 05:07 PM
Re: My Starter Collection Quote:
Originally Posted by Austrian Speculator (Post 1654905) Handgun � 9mm handgun � I like the lower recoil and cheap ammo so I can actually afford to practice with it. Suggestions please
I suggest you locate a fair amount of that cheap 9mm ammo before you purchase the firearm.

Austrian Speculator | 04-01-2009 06:47 AM
Re: My Starter Collection Thank you all for your advice. Now on to the shopping list (beats the hell out of going to the grocery store!) I plan to buy the guns in this order. 1. Ruger 10/22 a. I’m buying this first because my wife is afraid of guns and I want her to shoot this and take her fear away. b. I should be able to buy this for less than $200 c. I will buy at least 1000 rounds and several 25 round mags to get started 2. Glock 17 a. It’s been a while since I’ve shot on of these, but I have big hands to it fits me fairly well. b. I’ve decided to buy this before the shotgun for fear of not being able to purchase it in the future. It has a huge magazine capacity for a handgun and that could make this politically unpopular. c. I should be able to buy this for under $500 with 3 magazines d. As far as ammo goes, when it comes to 9mm – I know a guy. (Has a small pallet of various 9mm ammo that his fianc� is making him get rid of. A few silver rounds and I will have all I need for quite some time!) 3. Nagant Carbine a. Never shot one, but I love the fact that surplus ammo is so darn cheap! b. I should be able to purchase this for less than $150 (if I overpay by 50% it’s still a cheap gun!) I may buy 2. c. $250 in ammo will buy 1000 rounds delivered d. I may purchase a curved bolt handle to I can put a scope on it 4. Shotgun with interchangeable barrels a. Still not sure which direction I’m going to end up here – I’m looking for some flexibility and reliability. 5. AK-47 a. Someday maybe. Thanks again for everything, and I will be sure to keep you all updated! Austrian Speculator

freetx | 04-01-2009 10:22 AM
Re: My Starter Collection All of your guns are good choices for the right reasons. The only questionable one is the Mosin - yes, its cheap. Yes, its a good quality firearm. But its usefulness in a SHTF scenario will be far less than a handgun. Since you already are considering a shotgun - you have the "hunting" angle covered. If I were you (being a newish gun owner with a wife that you are trying to teach) I would opt for a revolver. Preferably a .357. This will allow you to shoot both .38/.357 and the fool-proof nature of revolvers will pay dividends in a SHTF scenario. With revolvers there is nothing to break / no learning curve. Squeeze trigger and it goes POW. I've been shooting regularly for a long time and have a nice collection of guns. If I was in a scenario where I only had 2-sec to make a choice of what gun to pick up (e.g. its 2am and you hear voices in your living-room) - my instinct would be to go for the revolver. Now, if its the middle of the day and you have 10-secs to choose your gun - the decision would go to some sort of auto. Moreover, your wife will feel more comfortable with a revolver than an auto while she is learning, IMHO.

CQC McDuck | 04-01-2009 03:30 PM
Re: My Starter Collection IMO, the Nagant is a no brainer. They're inexpensive and cheap bulk amounts of 7.62x54r ammunition is still readily available. The 10/22 and Glock 17s are great choices, but given the uncertainty of the times expediting ownership of an effective 'battle' rifle with more than adequate stopping power should be a top priority as well.

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