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- - How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=375789)

Chris_Is_Here | 05-16-2009 09:18 PM
How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits Many of you are probably already are aware of this information, but I thought I'd post this anyway as a reminder for those of you that may find yourself in an argument with a flaming, liberal nit-wit on the issue of the right to gun ownership... http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/ka...rotection.html The link above is an article that discusses both practical and legal reasons why people cannot rely on police to protect them from harm. The article makes the case that.. (1) law enforcement resources are so scant that there is no possibility that police patrol efforts can ever prevent or deter most crimes.. (2) Per Warren vs. District of Columbia and DeShaney vs. Winnebego County Department of Social Services, courts have held that police have no legal obligation to protect individuals from harm unless some "special relationship" exists between the police and an individual. In DeShaney, the courts interpreted the "special relationship" very narrowly as applying only to situations where a person was in policy custody or care (such as prisoners or involuntarily committed mental patients). The courts deem that there is no "special relationship", even in cases where the police know that an individual is being threatened or is in imminent danger. So, say you have a restraining order issued against your ex, and he (or she) attacks you and does you harm. US courts would say that the police had no duty to protect you, even in this case. Or, you call the police because someone has broken into your house and they are late to respond (or even REFUSE to respond)...sorry, you're sh*t out of luck. Want police protection? Become a criminal or become insane to the point where you have to be confined. Great, huh? Put all this together, and it basically says that you, as a citizen, are on your own, when it comes to protection from harm. Without the ability to defend our own person and family, we are sitting ducks, according to the courts. Now you can see why the second amendment is so crucial for us as individuals, in terms of protecting ourselves from crime. When the second amendment is discussed, it is usually in the context of the right of people to defend themselves against a tyrannical government (which is, of course, absolutely correct and good). Remember, however, that most of the Amerikan zombie-sheep still regard Uncle Hussein as their friend and benefactor, and so they could never, for a second, allow the thought of citizens rising up against their oppressors to ever enter their confused little minds. The issue of personal protection should hit home for many, regardless of their political stripe. Of course, there will always be those that refuse to be swayed by any logic, but they are not worth rescuing anyway, so f* em.

Unclad Lad | 05-17-2009 02:44 AM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits You're overlooking a crucial point: Those who are anti-gun have already been confronted with the equivalent of entire libraries of factual, logical reasons why 2A, RKBA, etc is so important. One more logical argument containing legal precedent isn't going to matter one little bit. The only thing that will sway them is an emotional argument laced with logic... You: It's a beautiful spring day, and you've brought your grade-school child to the park. There aren't too many people around, but as always seems to be the case, there's a group of kids running and shrieking and giggling and having a great time like kids always seem to do. Suddenly, one of them says "Ooooh!! Look at this!!" and picks something up. You walk over, and it's a handgun!! What do you do? Nit-Wit: I run right over and snatch it away- You: Snatch it how? NW: What? You: Because if you grab it the wrong way, it might go off, right? NW: Uh, yeah. You: So let's say you're holding it, and it didn't fire, what do you do now? NW: Well, I get out my cell, and I call 911, and- You: 20 minutes. NW: What? You: There was a multi-vehicle pileup on the interstate, and traffic is down to 1 lane; and there's a meth lab bust that is being covered by NewsTen on the other side of town, so they can't an officer out there for 20 minutes. At the very earliest. NW: ... So you're standing there with your phone in one hand and some sort of gun in the other, and all these children are crowding around wanting to see. What are you going to do? NW: Uh, well... You: You could make it safe, right? NW: Oh! Yes, I can do that! You: How? NW: What? You: Can you tell me if the gun is loaded? Can you see if it's cocked? Is the safety on or off? NW: Uh, no. You: Why not? Haven't you ever had a handgun safety course? NW: Oh, no! I hate guns--they should all be banned. You: And yet, here you are standing in the park, holding a gun to keep it away from little children, and by knowing absolutely nothing about guns they might be in bigger danger than if you'd just let them play with it? NW: Um- You: 15 minutes until the cops might arrive, and you see someone walking over to you. Male, maybe 14 years old, he stands out because, despite it being a lovely spring day he is wearing a long black trenchcoat, and his head is bobbing furiously to the music in his ear buds. At first he was scowling, but as he sees what you have he smiles and says, "Ooooh, pretty! Me want" and holds out his hand. What do you do? NW: Well, I pull it away and tell him the police are coming- You: And he says "But they aren't here now. Give it to me. NOW". NW: But- You: He pushes one of the kids towards you, and as try to catch her, he grabs your arm and pulls the gun right out of your hand. You reach for him, but he's already running away. He shouts back at you "Make sure you watch the six o'clock news!" You: You can use the Internet to meet people, do your banking, and keep current on world events, but keep your children away from online predators. You can operate a 1500 pound vehicle and bring it to a sudden stop if a kid runs into the street. You've locked your cabinets so the baby doesn't swallow Drano. But you're so overcome with fright by an inanimate hunk of metal that you may have just armed a teenager looking for infamy! What do you tell the police when they eventually show up, and there's no gun? Do you know what kind of gun it was? Was it loaded? You gave it some kid?? Would you even be able to look that officer in the eye? I know I couldn't, because I would see myself as having shirked my duties as an adult. You, gently: You don't have to like guns. You don't have to own one. You don't even have to shoot one. But as a responsible parent, don't you think you should know how to protect your children, and your neighbor's children? Could you live with yourself if a child died because of your ignorance, even if it was with the best intentions? How is that better than if you had pulled the trigger yourself? Sign up for a HSC. There's one being taught at the Community Center next month. The instructor brings several different models, and ammunition isn't allowed in the room, so there's no danger. You owe it to your children. === See? Perfectly plausible scenario, and the logic of the argument is indisputable. But what will sway her is the image of a child that is dead because of her. The gun killed, but it was her negligence that was responsible. Your tone is important here. You are a caring, compassionate person who is interested in protecting our children, and in her growth as a human being. And I am not being sarcastic. I truly believe that one of my duties as an adult is to protect the children, ALL children. Where I differ from NW is that I believe that age-appropriate firearms instruction is vital. But by approaching it the way I do, the NW and I are on the same side--the side of the children. Most HSCs include a trip to the range; NW might go from fear of being in the same room as a gun to charging a LadySmith and ordering the pink grips. :bear_w00t: But even if NW still doesn't like guns she'll at the very least be able to render a gun safe. Because it really is for the children.

ThePrintingPress | 05-17-2009 04:02 AM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits There's a much easier way to deal with people like this - offer them a sign for their front window that reads "This House is Gun Free!!" :rofl:

Randal45 | 05-17-2009 06:24 AM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePrintingPress (Post 1726205) There's a much easier way to deal with people like this - offer them a sign for their front window that reads "This House is Gun Free!!" :rofl:
yeah, it is funny that I've never seen such a sign as that. You'd think that they'd be very popular......ha ha ha I wonder why?!!!! ha ha ha

MrCapitalism | 05-17-2009 11:46 AM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits http://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/?...depression.mp3 Go to 16:00 "Take a liberal friend shooting"

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 05-20-2009 06:40 PM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=339910 The American Military relies on Armed American Citizens for National Defense They can't be everywhere at once....we already are.

Big_Rob | 05-21-2009 01:12 AM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits I got a better solution. I just choose not to argue with those people and tell them they are absolutely right and then walk away. That always gets their goats. One thing Ive often wondered though, how many people would be 110% flipped out if they knew that I was carrying cocked and locked around them without their knowledge.

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 05-21-2009 04:19 PM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits A lot of them would flip out man. But you're still the exact same person you were before they knew. It is hypocrisy but they're unable to see it.

Professur | 05-21-2009 04:30 PM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits I simply ask them how many criminals do they think care about gun laws and buy them legally.

xls177 | 05-22-2009 10:56 PM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits Try this pdf file or google gunfacts by guy smith http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-fa...s4-1-Print.pdf

roasted | 05-23-2009 01:09 AM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 1732584) I simply ask them how many criminals do they think care about gun laws and buy them legally.
Some NW's have said that all these laws are needed and in place to quickly charge the criminals with as many violations as possible. :111: :thumb.aspx:

Shasta Gold | 05-23-2009 03:43 AM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits "How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits" You don't. Read my .sig line.

Chris_Is_Here | 05-23-2009 10:58 AM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 1726188) You're overlooking a crucial point: Those who are anti-gun have already been confronted with the equivalent of entire libraries of factual, logical reasons why 2A, RKBA, etc is so important. One more logical argument containing legal precedent isn't going to matter one little bit. The only thing that will sway them is an emotional argument laced with logic... You: It's a beautiful spring day, and you've brought your grade-school child to the park. There aren't too many people around, but as always seems to be the case, there's a group of kids running and shrieking and giggling and having a great time like kids always seem to do. Suddenly, one of them says "Ooooh!! Look at this!!" and picks something up. You walk over, and it's a handgun!! What do you do? Nit-Wit: I run right over and snatch it away- You: Snatch it how? NW: What? You: Because if you grab it the wrong way, it might go off, right? NW: Uh, yeah. You: So let's say you're holding it, and it didn't fire, what do you do now? NW: Well, I get out my cell, and I call 911, and- You: 20 minutes. NW: What? You: There was a multi-vehicle pileup on the interstate, and traffic is down to 1 lane; and there's a meth lab bust that is being covered by NewsTen on the other side of town, so they can't an officer out there for 20 minutes. At the very earliest. NW: ... So you're standing there with your phone in one hand and some sort of gun in the other, and all these children are crowding around wanting to see. What are you going to do? NW: Uh, well... You: You could make it safe, right? NW: Oh! Yes, I can do that! You: How? NW: What? You: Can you tell me if the gun is loaded? Can you see if it's cocked? Is the safety on or off? NW: Uh, no. You: Why not? Haven't you ever had a handgun safety course? NW: Oh, no! I hate guns--they should all be banned. You: And yet, here you are standing in the park, holding a gun to keep it away from little children, and by knowing absolutely nothing about guns they might be in bigger danger than if you'd just let them play with it? NW: Um- You: 15 minutes until the cops might arrive, and you see someone walking over to you. Male, maybe 14 years old, he stands out because, despite it being a lovely spring day he is wearing a long black trenchcoat, and his head is bobbing furiously to the music in his ear buds. At first he was scowling, but as he sees what you have he smiles and says, "Ooooh, pretty! Me want" and holds out his hand. What do you do? NW: Well, I pull it away and tell him the police are coming- You: And he says "But they aren't here now. Give it to me. NOW". NW: But- You: He pushes one of the kids towards you, and as try to catch her, he grabs your arm and pulls the gun right out of your hand. You reach for him, but he's already running away. He shouts back at you "Make sure you watch the six o'clock news!" You: You can use the Internet to meet people, do your banking, and keep current on world events, but keep your children away from online predators. You can operate a 1500 pound vehicle and bring it to a sudden stop if a kid runs into the street. You've locked your cabinets so the baby doesn't swallow Drano. But you're so overcome with fright by an inanimate hunk of metal that you may have just armed a teenager looking for infamy! What do you tell the police when they eventually show up, and there's no gun? Do you know what kind of gun it was? Was it loaded? You gave it some kid?? Would you even be able to look that officer in the eye? I know I couldn't, because I would see myself as having shirked my duties as an adult. You, gently: You don't have to like guns. You don't have to own one. You don't even have to shoot one. But as a responsible parent, don't you think you should know how to protect your children, and your neighbor's children? Could you live with yourself if a child died because of your ignorance, even if it was with the best intentions? How is that better than if you had pulled the trigger yourself? Sign up for a HSC. There's one being taught at the Community Center next month. The instructor brings several different models, and ammunition isn't allowed in the room, so there's no danger. You owe it to your children. === See? Perfectly plausible scenario, and the logic of the argument is indisputable. But what will sway her is the image of a child that is dead because of her. The gun killed, but it was her negligence that was responsible. Your tone is important here. You are a caring, compassionate person who is interested in protecting our children, and in her growth as a human being. And I am not being sarcastic. I truly believe that one of my duties as an adult is to protect the children, ALL children. Where I differ from NW is that I believe that age-appropriate firearms instruction is vital. But by approaching it the way I do, the NW and I are on the same side--the side of the children. Most HSCs include a trip to the range; NW might go from fear of being in the same room as a gun to charging a LadySmith and ordering the pink grips. :bear_w00t: But even if NW still doesn't like guns she'll at the very least be able to render a gun safe. Because it really is for the children.
Utterly brilliant, but way beyond the grasp of the hordes......they will be so confused and turned around by this, that they will probably react by becoming even more polarized and zealous in their opposition.....they hate what they fear, and fear what they do not understand.... Perhaps we should just pretend to agree with them....reverse psychology, maybe? :biggrin:

Unclad Lad | 05-29-2009 02:53 AM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits Quote:
Utterly brilliant, but way beyond the grasp of the hordes....
I'm as guilty of it as anyone, but when we say "hordes" or "nit-wits" we lower our enemies in our own eyes. This makes us underestimate them. We must never underestimate the enemy. They are counting on the Zumbos of the gun world to do their work for them. And if you read back through some of the replies to just this thread, you'll realize that not all the nit-wits are on the other side. You're still looking at my scenario through logical eyes. The point I'm trying to make is that guns are an emotional issue as well as a logical one. If I basically call an Anti an idiot in my arguments, how will that help? You and I, we get it--Grok it, if you will. And if you look at the passion we put into defending our natural rights, you'll see that it is an emotional issue for us, too. In my persuasion I introduced fear, embarrassment, a few stereotypes--then ended it with hope and enlightenment. The entire tone is of wanting to help them, not to beat them. They need to feel in their hearts that my goal is to help them--which is my entire goal here. Logic with feeling.

Mill Man | 05-29-2009 05:45 PM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits You can talk until you're blue in the face but it won't get you anywhere. Best way I've found to change peoples minds is to take them shooting. To alot of people guns are and dangerous because they don't know how they work. Teach them how they work, proper safety and handling, then the mystique is gone and they'll be more comfortable with them.

Unclad Lad | 05-30-2009 02:04 AM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits Quote:
Best way I've found to change peoples minds is to take them shooting.
Way better than any argument, I'm in 100% agreement. And if I can, I will. But the OP was about how to argue. My posts represent my best take on how to do so.

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 05-30-2009 06:20 PM
Re: How to Argue With Anti-Gun Nit-Wits Taking my girlfriend and her best friend to an outdoor rifle range - they're chomping at the bit to get started. The best friend - who is older than I am - confessed to me that guns scare her, and *that is why she's ready to learn how to use them*.

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