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- - Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=413230)

BeeYourself | 10-06-2009 01:46 AM
Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Today I was asked kindly to no longer carry a firearm in the establishment of Trader Joes. They have been OK with it for the last couple years, but it seems they have obtained a license to provide customers with wine tasting samples and because of that have banned firearms. I think this has something to do with the licensing. Currently there are no signs outside that I am aware of banning firearms such as the ones outside of costco. I am not sure how I can go there and maintain safety. I might just stand outside while my wife shops in the future if we decide to continue patronizing the establishment. AZ law says you can carry into an alcohol serving establishment as long as you legally are carry concealed and do not drink. I do not drink, but do not have or desire said permit.

Bx3 | 10-06-2009 01:56 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Any establishment has the right to ask you to leave if they know that you are carrying a firearm. The key point being if they know. It is not against any law to carry into a business that prohibits firearms providing it is not a federal building. The worst case is that they ask you to leave. I would get a CCW for this reason amongst many.Bx3

The Argent Dragon | 10-06-2009 01:57 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms I'm assuming you left ? I don't want to get you into trouble, but did you ask where is the law in black and white that says you cannot do so ? I'd go back with my firearm and if approached put the burden on them to prove otherwise. Tell them there is no sign. Tell them to recite the law. Drive the point home. You have a case IMO. :wink:

BeeYourself | 10-06-2009 02:02 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms I think its a local county liquor license ordinance, but so far I cant find it. They did not ask me to leave as I was already leaving. They asked me quietly after checking out to not come back next time while armed. My wife told them we would not come back at all under those conditions. They do have the right to ask me to leave or to check the firearm at the door as it is private property.

Bx3 | 10-06-2009 02:05 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 1956717) I'm assuming you left ? I don't want to get you into trouble, but did you ask where is the law in black and white that says you cannot do so ? I'd go back with my firearm and if approached put the burden on them to prove otherwise. Tell them there is no sign. Tell them to recite the law. Drive the point home. You have a case IMO. :wink:
I have to disagree. While you are not breaking any laws, when you are in a business establishment, you are on privately owned property. If the owner/manager of that property doesn't want you to have a gun, there is nothing you can do about it except take your business elsewhere. Bx3

The Argent Dragon | 10-06-2009 02:16 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1956723) ....you are on privately owned property.....
Hmmm........that is a very good point. I'll need to think about this further.

BeeYourself | 10-06-2009 02:29 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms http://www.azliquor.gov/assets/docum...irearm_faq.pdf New law (Sept 29th, 2009 enacted) allows for concealed carry in any alcohol serving establishment without a posted sign banning firearms and as long as you do not consume alcohol. Trader joes does not have any sign posted. No mention of open carry here, but I am assuming that was always considered illegal. Further they did not disclose anything about coming back concealed carry. I doubt those employees know the difference.

Gaillo | 10-06-2009 02:32 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Trader Joe's has banned firearms? I guess I've just banned Trader Joe's. I'll never spend another penny there.

GardensGold&Guns | 10-06-2009 08:28 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1956745) Trader Joe's has banned firearms? I guess I've just banned Trader Joe's. I'll never spend another penny there.
I too have a list that I have banned becuase of anti-2a rules

Zusn | 10-06-2009 08:48 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1956745) Trader Joe's has banned firearms? I guess I've just banned Trader Joe's. I'll never spend another penny there.
I seldom to go to Trader Joe's (or is it Traitor Joe's) but now I have a good reason not to go ever.

chad | 10-06-2009 08:54 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms i understand the issue is feedoms and your right to carry, but is grocery shopping in AZ really so dangerous as to require a handgun?

Ringhunter | 10-06-2009 09:43 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1957079) I hope you're being facetious. Do you know how often supermarkets are robbed. Do some searches for people going on shooting sprees in supermarkets or killing patrons while trying to rob the place. *much less when you get out to the parking lot.
I was in one about 10 years ago, guy shot 2 state police in the parking lot and then went inside the store. They ended up shooting him in the middle of the night.

TTAZZMAN | 10-06-2009 10:17 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms In our county you can not mix guns and by the drink liquer.......if you allow guns they take away your liquer licsence......they have other intresting rules such as a bar can not be within 100ft of a church or school etc.

Twisted Avatar | 10-06-2009 10:23 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms 1 Attachment(s) Will criminals or people that may want to harm me or my family be observent this law??? Okay then....

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 10-07-2009 12:46 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms I carry in my local Trader Joe's all the time. But as stated above, they do not know...

Real Money Now | 10-07-2009 12:51 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1956723) I have to disagree. While you are not breaking any laws, when you are in a business establishment, you are on privately owned property. If the owner/manager of that property doesn't want you to have a gun, there is nothing you can do about it except take your business elsewhere. Bx3
Artificial "persons" (corporations) have no rights, and can therefore not suspend INALIENABLE rights. The Second Amendment is a guarantee, not a grant. It pre-exists the government, and does not apply only to government, because it comes from God.

Real Money Now | 10-07-2009 12:53 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1956745) Trader Joe's has banned firearms? I guess I've just banned Trader Joe's. I'll never spend another penny there.
Don't blame Trader Joe's...sounds like government farther out of control.

low_five | 10-07-2009 01:01 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1956723) I have to disagree. While you are not breaking any laws, when you are in a business establishment, you are on privately owned property. If the owner/manager of that property doesn't want you to have a gun, there is nothing you can do about it except take your business elsewhere. Bx3
I disagree with you. A business establishment is by definition a public business. If the owner doesnt want a jew or a black or a woman in his place, he has to stfu and deal with it.

BeeYourself | 10-07-2009 01:09 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Don't blame Trader Joe's...sounds like government farther out of control.
Trader Joes made the choice to get a license to serve wine samples. Why you need a license for this is beyond me, but they seem to think that its better to have a license and sample wine intoxicating their driving customers rather than allow room for the 2a and keep a safe environment for their customers. I think they chose wrong.

King_Squais | 10-07-2009 01:28 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by chad (Post 1957024) i understand the issue is feedoms and your right to carry, but is grocery shopping in AZ really so dangerous as to require a handgun?
Remember that time you saw some gang members beat some guy nearly to death with bats when you were at the grocery store? Oh wait, that was me. Anyway, what was your question?

Bx3 | 10-07-2009 01:30 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1958788) Artificial "persons" (corporations) have no rights, and can therefore not suspend INALIENABLE rights.
That is your opinion but the facts are quite different when you are on "their" property. Quote:
low_five I disagree with you. A business establishment is by definition a public business. If the owner doesnt want a jew or a black or a woman in his place, he has to stfu and deal with it.
Apples and oranges. Based on a strictly Constitutional argument, I wouldn't have the right to ban guns in my business but I would have every right to ban jews, blacks and women if I desired. Based on your argument of "public business" I guess that I should be able to let myself in after hours as I see fit. But since this is reality that we are talking about, I digress. Guys, it's real simple, either CCW and or patronize another business. It's not rocket science. Bx3

King_Squais | 10-07-2009 01:31 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1958788) Artificial "persons" (corporations) have no rights, and can therefore not suspend INALIENABLE rights. The Second Amendment is a guarantee, not a grant. It pre-exists the government, and does not apply only to government, because it comes from God.
I had not thought of it that way. Good point.

WillieTheKid | 10-07-2009 01:36 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms In WA State it is illegal to carry into an tavern or bar regardless of whether you have a CCP or not. Businesses have the right to ask anyone to leave their establishment providing it is not because of race, religious orientation, etc. I don't think carrying a gun would exempt you from being able to be asked to leave--I think it might be considered to be a reasonable request. Unfortunately, I like shopping at Trader Joe's. But I seldom carry these days anyway.

Bx3 | 10-07-2009 01:39 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Squais (Post 1958861) I had not thought of it that way. Good opinion.
There, I fixed it for you. Bx3

low_five | 10-07-2009 01:51 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1958857) Apples and oranges. Based on a strictly Constitutional argument, I wouldn't have the right to ban guns in my business but I would have every right to ban jews, blacks and women if I desired. Based on your argument of "public business" I guess that I should be able to let myself in after hours as I see fit. But since this is reality that we are talking about, I digress. Guys, it's real simple, either CCW and or patronize another business. It's not rocket science. Bx3
Id agree with you if it was a private business open to individuals by invitation only, but as a public establishment, the general public can do business with you and gain access during normal hours. When you get a business license, you contract away your constitutional rights in exchange for the privilege of government protected monopoly rights to operate a business. That is why you have to collect taxes, you must sell to anyone with enough dollars to purchase your items, and you have to follow all the rules of your state and federal government concerning your business. I dont agree with it, but thats the way it is, and its the way people love it, because they take out business licenses every day of the week. I honestly think that if the dildo that runs trader joes doesnt want guns, fags, jews, whores, etc on his property, he should be able to say so, but he contracted those rights away. I dont even know what trader joes is, but he is a douche.

Real Money Now | 10-07-2009 02:27 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeYourself (Post 1958833) Trader Joes made the choice to get a license to serve wine samples. Why you need a license for this is beyond me, but they seem to think that its better to have a license and sample wine intoxicating their driving customers rather than allow room for the 2a and keep a safe environment for their customers. I think they chose wrong.
Wine/liquor is about 10% of TJ's sales. Gun owners who open carry are about, what, 0.00001% of their sales? I believe people have the RIGHT to open or conceal carry EVERYWHERE, but that doesn't change the fact that TJ's either complies with "the law," or TJ's gets shut down.

Real Money Now | 10-07-2009 02:31 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1958857) That is your opinion but the facts are quite different when you are on "their" property.
My opinion is fact; whether the "fat men in black dresses" or pigs will agree is irrelevant. It's the same as when these joints insist on checking your receipt at the door. And, if I decide to ignore you, WTF are you gonna do about it? Call the cops? I'll be gone before they get here. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1958857) Guys, it's real simple, either CCW and or patronize another business.
Or just exercise the Second Amendment.

Real Money Now | 10-07-2009 02:35 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by low_five (Post 1958880) I dont even know what trader joes is, but he is a douche.
Trader Joe's is a specialty grocery store with almost-totally "store brand" items (almost all repackaged from original brand), focused on natural, organic, or less-artificial conventional food. They started in SoCal, but expanded over most of the lower 48. They're owned by Aldi's of Germany now. http://www.traderjoes.com/

Bx3 | 10-07-2009 02:57 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1958916) My opinion is fact
But its not. You obviously are not a business owner. Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1958916) It's the same as when these joints insist on checking your receipt at the door. And, if I decide to ignore you, WTF are you gonna do about it? Call the cops? I'll be gone before they get here.
Your right, there is nothing they can do with the exception of asking you to leave "their establishment" which is within "their right" as well. This has nothing to do with "law" so the police are irrelevant, unless you refuse to leave. Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1958916) Or just exercise the Second Amendment.
I exercise my 2A 24/7 regardless of where I go. A business however has just as much of a right to bar me from bringing a firearm onto their property as I have to defend myself. If you are advocating that property rights no longer exist, then you are the anti thesis of what you claim to represent. Bx3

AurumAg | 10-07-2009 03:55 AM
While I was never tempted to enter Trader Joe's with a gun before... Now that I can no longer carry a gun in TJ's, I really want to. Why is that?

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Gaillo | 10-07-2009 04:03 AM
Re: While I was never tempted to enter Trader Joe's with a gun before... Quote:
Originally Posted by AurumAg (Post 1958960) Now that I can no longer carry a gun in TJ's, I really want to. Why is that?
I give up... all the smelly hippies? :biggrin:

Real Money Now | 10-07-2009 01:27 PM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1958932) You obviously are not a business owner.
LOL Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1958932) A business however has just as much of a right to bar me from bringing a firearm onto their property as I have to defend myself.
A corporation has no rights contrary to natural rights held by human beings. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1958932) If you are advocating that property rights no longer exist, then you are the anti thesis of what you claim to represent. Bx3
What is it I "claim to represent"?

Bx3 | 10-07-2009 02:05 PM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1959645) LOL
= no i do not, nor have I ever been a business owner. Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1959645) A corporation has no rights contrary to natural rights held by human beings.
You continue to confuse corporate/personal rights with property/personal rights. Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1959645) What is it I "claim to represent"?
Well now that is the real question here. When you figure it out please let us know. I guarantee that I am not the only one who is wondering. Bx3

AZLiberty | 10-07-2009 08:57 PM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeYourself (Post 1956741) http://www.azliquor.gov/assets/docum...irearm_faq.pdf No mention of open carry here, but I am assuming that was always considered illegal.
Not always, only since territorial days. If you are looking for the exact statute is in not in the firearms section of the state code, it's under "Bars and Saloons". If they have a license to dispense (even if just for wine tastings) legally they are considered a bar. Thanks to the damn NRA, the new law that went into effect last week only covers folks with CCW who actually conceal. And of course, thanks to the way the law is written, there is no requirement to actually inform you they have a license to dispense, so you can break the law without even knowing it.

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 10-07-2009 09:59 PM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Except for the obvious moral issue of refusing a direct, polite, and totally legal request, what is the worst than could happen to you if you just continue to carry, in a concealed fashion? I don't believe you'll have any trouble at all.

CyberGold | 10-08-2009 01:11 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeYourself (Post 1956741) http://www.azliquor.gov/assets/docum...irearm_faq.pdf New law (Sept 29th, 2009 enacted) allows for concealed carry in any alcohol serving establishment without a posted sign banning firearms and as long as you do not consume alcohol. Trader joes does not have any sign posted. No mention of open carry here, but I am assuming that was always considered illegal.
I do believe open carry in a place that serves alcohol is illegal here in AZ, unless you have the owners permission (ie you are an employee).

Real Money Now | 10-08-2009 01:27 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1959702) = no i do not, nor have I ever been a business owner.
= owner & operator who makes more in one year than you do in your lifetime. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1959702) Well now that is the real question here. When you figure it out please let us know. I guarantee that I am not the only one who is wondering. Bx3
You claim to know, why don't you tell us? Hint: I'm not a flag-waiving idolater.

C4talyst | 10-08-2009 01:43 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Funny, I've never been affected by such bans...I tend to just carry wherever I please...perhaps even downtown Washington DC, where each bullet is a separate felony charge. Concealed means concealed...

Bx3 | 10-08-2009 02:45 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1960965) = owner & operator who makes more in one year than you do in your lifetime.
Sure you are:sarc: and sure you do:sarc: If there was any truth to your statement, you would actually know and share educated facts about corporate laws/rights/responsibilities instead of throwing out the standard diatribe of illogical propaganda. Immature statements like the one above damages any credibility you might have hoped to gain. You should really stop while your behind. Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1960965) You claim to know, why don't you tell us?
I certainly have formed a conclusion about you . Hijacking this thread to highlight that observation however is not in the best interests of the original poster or this topic. Suffice to say, the opinion you have given here has been wrong and anyone foolish enough to follow it deserves the trouble that it will cause. Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1960965) Hint: I'm not a flag-waiving idolater.
No you obviously are not an idolater (at least not an American one). Big surprise there. Bx3

Real Money Now | 10-08-2009 04:33 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1961049) Sure you are and sure you do If there was any truth to your statement
I assume you're baiting me into revealing what I do. I'm not biting, I'm not stupid. Believe what you will. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1961049) you would actually know and share educated facts about corporate laws/rights/responsibilities instead of throwing out the standard diatribe of illogical propaganda.
There is Real Law and there is System "law." You may feel free to fall to your knees over the latter. I can navigate the System's "law" like a Jew lawyer when I want, but I shall never accept it as moral or valid. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1961049) Immature statements like the one above damages any credibility you might have hoped to gain. You should really stop while your behind.
LOL Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1961049) I certainly have formed a conclusion about you . Hijacking this thread to highlight that observation however is not in the best interests of the original poster or this topic.
Cop out or cowardice? Come on, go ahead, you want to call me a Communist. LOL :haha: Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1961049) No you obviously are not an idolater (at least not an American one). Big surprise there.
I don't owe allegiance to a criminal regime that is an enemy of God Almighty, and I sure wouldn't be caught dead flying the demon regime's 50 star rag.

BeeYourself | 10-08-2009 04:38 AM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Ummm and now back to your regularly scheduled program...:applause_

Bx3 | 10-08-2009 12:06 PM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeYourself (Post 1961105) Ummm and now back to your regularly scheduled program...:applause_
Exactly!:coolbeer: Real money =:spam4:

wallew | 10-08-2009 12:46 PM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeYourself (Post 1956722) They did not ask me to leave as I was already leaving. They asked me quietly after checking out to not come back next time while armed. My wife told them we would not come back at all under those conditions.
TWO THINGS. First. LISTEN TO YOUR WIFE, she's an extremely smart woman. Always vote with your pocketbook. AND TELL THE MANAGEMENT WHY YOU ARE VOTING THAT WAY. AND EXPLAIN TO THEM YOU WILL TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW NOT TO SHOP THERE AS WELL. Nothing more motivational than BAD publicity to get them to change their minds. Second. Trader Joes and almost every national retailer does not OWN the building they are in. THEY RENT IT. Which means they give away even MORE rights than you might think. The OWNER of the property is probably the corporation that built the mall or strip shop of the businesses are in. Which means THEY have rules as well that the RENTER must abide by to be allowed to rent there. If the retail business OWNS the property they are either a 'Mom & Pop' store with one or two locations OR a real estate company masquerading as a retail outlet. Go ask so many retailers that thought owning the property they did business on was a good idea. Debbie Civier (sp?) who used to own 'Mrs. Fields Cookies' but lost it all when the real estate they owned fell in value by way more than half. Cost HER the business. This type of thing repeats itself over and over again.

Bx3 | 10-08-2009 12:59 PM
Re: Granola, wine and firearms dont mix. Trader Joe's has banned firearms Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1961810) TWO THINGS. First. LISTEN TO YOUR WIFE, she's an extremely smart woman. Always vote with your pocketbook. AND TELL THE MANAGEMENT WHY YOU ARE VOTING THAT WAY. AND EXPLAIN TO THEM YOU WILL TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW NOT TO SHOP THERE AS WELL. Nothing more motivational than BAD publicity to get them to change their minds.
Agreed, with the caveat that CCW is almost always better than open carry for multiple reasons. Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1961810) Second. Trader Joes and almost every national retailer does not OWN the building they are in. THEY RENT IT. Which means they give away even MORE rights than you might think. The OWNER of the property is probably the corporation that built the mall or strip shop of the businesses are in. Which means THEY have rules as well that the RENTER must abide by to be allowed to rent there.
Yes and no. Agree with the majority are renters fact but not that they necessarily lose the rights that we are discussing here. A landlord generally will not interfere with a businesses operations unless it is detrimental to the property value or there is some kind of moral conflict. While defying peoples 2A rights is a moral conflict to us here at GIM, it does not register with most landlords. In this case, it sounds like the policy originated from TJ's and quite possibly, this may not have even been a corporate decision but maybe a managers on the spot bad judgment call. Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1961810) If the retail business OWNS the property they are either a 'Mom & Pop' store with one or two locations OR a real estate company masquerading as a retail outlet. Go ask so many retailers that thought owning the property they did business on was a good idea. Debbie Civier (sp?) who used to own 'Mrs. Fields Cookies' but lost it all when the real estate they owned fell in value by way more than half. Cost HER the business. This type of thing repeats itself over and over again.
Very true. Bx3

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