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G.W.Tanker | 02-10-2009 11:35 AM
Scope advice I'm looking to put a scope on my 30-06 deer rifle. My only experience is with Bushnell sportsmans on ruger 10/22's. The '06 is a XL7 that cost $350 new. I'll use it for deer/elk/coyotes... out to 500 meters and can afford about $300 for a scope that I'll also quick detach and mount on my AR varmint rifle. What would you advise I get? fixed or variable? Leupold, BSA, ...? I'm leaning toward a Leupy VXI?

SilverCity | 02-10-2009 11:44 AM
Re: Scope advice Quote:
Originally Posted by G.W.Tanker (Post 1560933) I'm looking to put a scope on my 30-06 deer rifle. My only experience is with Bushnell sportsmans on ruger 10/22's. The '06 is a XL7 that cost $350 new. I'll use it for deer/elk/coyotes... out to 500 meters and can afford about $300 for a scope that I'll also quick detach and mount on my AR varmint rifle. What would you advise I get? fixed or variable? Leupold, BSA, ...? I'm leaning toward a Leupy VXI?
There are a number of them out there, but I usually gravitate to Leupold and Burris whenever possible, especially for a lighter-weight '06 hunting rifle. The $300 range should buy you a decent one. Burris is the only manufacturer (that I am aware of) that advertises their scopes are also suitable for pellet rifles...a testimony to their sturdy build.

Maximus | 02-10-2009 11:44 AM
Re: Scope advice Millett TRS-1 Mill-Dot. http://www.millettsights.com/controller.php It's in your price range... Is an exceptional scope for the price and you would do well to learn the Mill-Dot system if you don't already. It's also illuminated which is extremely cool.

hoarder | 02-10-2009 12:17 PM
Re: Scope advice Some of the Japanese and chinese scopes are a good value for tarket/plinking, but I find many cheaper scopes have slow target aquisition. By that I mean they have unforgiving eye relief, you have to get your eyeball a certain exact distance from the ocular lens or they "blackout". A scope with unforgiving eye relief is not suitable for hunting unless hunting over bait so your your prey stands still long enough for you to get a picture and then shoot. Not my kind of "hunting". I found Leopold scopes, though somewhat overated and overpriced do provide good forgiving eye relief and thus quick target aquisition. Get at least a VX-2. Most scope companies make poor, good, better and best models so be careful buying a brand name. Burris is good too, very sturdy and sometimes too heavy. edit: Most of my scopes are Leopolds I bought used at gunshows.

.41Dave | 02-10-2009 01:06 PM
Re: Scope advice +1 on Leupolds being overpriced/overrated. Don't get me wrong, Leupolds are good scopes, but in terms of value per dollar, you can do better. I bought a Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40 ($150) for my daughter's deer rifle, and when I compared it side-by-side with the Leupold VX-II 3-9x40 ($300) on my own rifle, I found to my surprise that the Burris was the equal of the Leupold, even in low light. I have since sold the Leupold and replaced it with a Zeiss Conquest, but that is more than your stated budget. Here is my General scope advice (YMMV): Avoid cheap scopes! They will cost you more in the long run! I would not buy anything from BSA, Tasco, NcStar or the like. Before I get flamed by someone who owns one they like, the main problem with cheap scopes is inconsistency. You might get a good one, but you are more likely to get a mediocre-to-bad one. A cheap scope is also generally more likely to fail/break/fog, probably at the worst possible time. Avoid High magnification scopes. Many people overscope their rifles. You do not need an astronomical observatory strapped to your gun. Unless you have a specific need, don't bother with high magnification (over 9x or 10x). Higher magnification will cost more dollars, and you will almost never need it. Because higher mag costs more, that means you can get higher quality lenses in a lower magnification scope for the same money. Better lenses means you can see more and better for the same dough. Trust me, a smaller, but sharp and clear sight picture is better than a big but indistinct one. Avoid Mil-Dot or other fancy reticles unless you know how to use it and know you want it. They usually cost more than a plain duplex reticle, and are seldom needed for most hunting. For hunting, I like a plain duplex reticle. It makes for a cleaner, less cluttered sight picture. Avoid "Tactical" scopes. The ones with the tall "tactical" or "target" turrets. You wouldn't think so, but these turrets will appear to seek out every branch, vine, and stray twig in your path and try to snag on them! Avoid "Moon scopes". These big 50mm + objective lenses are often purchased with the thought that they will be better in low light. This is true, to a certain extent, but your eye can only use a maximum of about 7mm of exit pupil (less as we age). Anything over that is a waste. In practical terms, a scope with a 40mm objective will give you as bright a picture at 6x magnification as an otherwise equal 50mm scope will at 7x magnification. A 50mm lens is also heavier (and thus more fragile), sits higher off of your rifle (and is thus more likely to bang into things, see fragile) and more expensive than a 40mm lens, which again means that unless that extra 1x of low-light magnification is really important to you, the 40mm is better for most general purposes. I recommend a 3-9x40 variable for hunting for several reasons: 1) Price - Because this is hands-down the most popular variable, you will find that it is cheaper than other variable or even fixed magnification scopes of equal quality. 2) Versatility - You never know if that deer or elk will appear at 50 yards or 350 yards. Specific scope recommendations: Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40 http://www.swfa.com/pc-8069-203-burr...fle-scope.aspx Bushnell Elite 4200 3-9x40 http://www.swfa.com/pc-7280-185-bush...fle-scope.aspx Sightron SII 3-9x40 http://www.swfa.com/pc-10603-1514-si...iflescope.aspx Nikon Buckmaster 3-9x40 http://www.swfa.com/pc-1856-220-niko...iflescope.aspx Of these, I would buy the Bushnell Elite 4200.

TTAZZMAN | 02-10-2009 01:46 PM
Re: Scope advice Quote:
Originally Posted by .41Dave (Post 1561129) +1 on Leupolds being overpriced/overrated. Don't get me wrong, Leupolds are good scopes, but in terms of value per dollar, you can do better. I bought a Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40 ($150) for my daughter's deer rifle, and when I compared it side-by-side with the Leupold VX-II 3-9x40 ($300) on my own rifle, I found to my surprise that the Burris was the equal of the Leupold, even in low light. I have since sold the Leupold and replaced it with a Zeiss Conquest, but that is more than your stated budget. Here is my General scope advice (YMMV): Avoid cheap scopes! They will cost you more in the long run! I would not buy anything from BSA, Tasco, NcStar or the like. Before I get flamed by someone who owns one they like, the main problem with cheap scopes is inconsistency. You might get a good one, but you are more likely to get a mediocre-to-bad one. A cheap scope is also generally more likely to fail/break/fog, probably at the worst possible time. Avoid High magnification scopes. Many people overscope their rifles. You do not need an astronomical observatory strapped to your gun. Unless you have a specific need, don't bother with high magnification (over 9x or 10x). Higher magnification will cost more dollars, and you will almost never need it. Because higher mag costs more, that means you can get higher quality lenses in a lower magnification scope for the same money. Better lenses means you can see more and better for the same dough. Trust me, a smaller, but sharp and clear sight picture is better than a big but indistinct one. Avoid Mil-Dot or other fancy reticles unless you know how to use it and know you want it. They usually cost more than a plain duplex reticle, and are seldom needed for most hunting. For hunting, I like a plain duplex reticle. It makes for a cleaner, less cluttered sight picture. Avoid "Tactical" scopes. The ones with the tall "tactical" or "target" turrets. You wouldn't think so, but these turrets will appear to seek out every branch, vine, and stray twig in your path and try to snag on them! Avoid "Moon scopes". These big 50mm + objective lenses are often purchased with the thought that they will be better in low light. This is true, to a certain extent, but your eye can only use a maximum of about 7mm of exit pupil (less as we age). Anything over that is a waste. In practical terms, a scope with a 40mm objective will give you as bright a picture at 6x magnification as an otherwise equal 50mm scope will at 7x magnification. A 50mm lens is also heavier (and thus more fragile), sits higher off of your rifle (and is thus more likely to bang into things, see fragile) and more expensive than a 40mm lens, which again means that unless that extra 1x of low-light magnification is really important to you, the 40mm is better for most general purposes. I recommend a 3-9x40 variable for hunting for several reasons: 1) Price - Because this is hands-down the most popular variable, you will find that it is cheaper than other variable or even fixed magnification scopes of equal quality. 2) Versatility - You never know if that deer or elk will appear at 50 yards or 350 yards. Specific scope recommendations: Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40 http://www.swfa.com/pc-8069-203-burr...fle-scope.aspx Bushnell Elite 4200 3-9x40 http://www.swfa.com/pc-7280-185-bush...fle-scope.aspx Sightron SII 3-9x40 http://www.swfa.com/pc-10603-1514-si...iflescope.aspx Nikon Buckmaster 3-9x40 http://www.swfa.com/pc-1856-220-niko...iflescope.aspx Of these, I would buy the Bushnell Elite 4200.
Very good advice...all good value for the price...any of the Bushnell Elite scopes are good ...3200-4200-6500

TTAZZMAN | 02-10-2009 01:50 PM
Re: Scope advice Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1560954) Burris is the only manufacturer (that I am aware of) that advertises their scopes are also suitable for pellet rifles...a testimony to their sturdy build.
Pardon my ignorance...are pellet rifles hard on scopes??.......most of the factory scopes that come on pellet rifles are some form of very cheap BSA etc....i am truely not knowledgeable on pellet rifles so my inquiring mind wants to know. Thank you

Rampon | 02-10-2009 01:59 PM
Re: Scope advice Good Post, Dave Appreciate the advice...and the effort to post. Very good points to consider. Changed my thoughts on the 50mm. I'm shopping for something for my M1A. Seems the mount is as important on this piece as the scope. I'm looking for something that I can use with the iron sights also since that was all I was ever trained on(Smith Enterprises seems a bit expensive and , perhaps, somewhat over-rated)

SilverCity | 02-10-2009 02:15 PM
Re: Scope advice Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1561248) Pardon my ignorance...are pellet rifles hard on scopes??.......most of the factory scopes that come on pellet rifles are some form of very cheap BSA etc....i am truely not knowledgeable on pellet rifles so my inquiring mind wants to know. Thank you
Piston-compression pellet rifles recoil in the OPPOSITE (back => front) direction. Most conventional centerfire and rimfire rifle scopes are designed only for front => back recoil not back => front recoil and as a result, do not hold up well when mounted on pellet guns. Burris takes the added measure to reinforce their scopes for recoil in BOTH directions.

ruprick | 02-10-2009 02:18 PM
Re: Scope advice Best bang for th buck is one of the mid line to higher end Bushnells. "Sportsmen" = bottom end - ok but cheap stuff. $40 - $65 "Banner" = very good value scope....I use these on Slug Guns and my 22LR & 17HMR. These will be in the $80 - $140 range. "Trophy" = This is true mid-range Bushnell.....these will run $110 - $200 ...perhaps a little more on a few models. I have a 2X - 7X on my muzzle loader. A Trophy wold do the job well. "Elite 3200" = this is where the higher end Bushnells start. $200 - $400....most around upper $200s. "Elite 4200" = $300 - $550 "Elite 6500" = $700 - $900 I'd go with the Trophy...plenty good enough....perhaps an Elite 3200 on sale..... 3x - 9x is reasonable for close and long shots.....we do more close hunting in Mich woods....so I tend to like the 2 - 7X or even 1 - 4.5X.....but sounds like you may make some long shots. The model I'd get would be the 3X - 9X x 40mm......get 50mm if you rilfe will package that size scope...most will not without very high rings.....the higher the rings the farther the distance between zeros....like it will zero at 100 yards as the bullet is climbing and zero again as the bullet is falling at 250 yards....this is typical and nice for deer hunting....anything out to 250 yards will be point blank range....no hold-over needed ....might be 4 inch high at 175 or something like that......but when you go to high rings - like optics on an AR15 mounted on carry handle...way up there zero at 100 and again at 500 ....useless for in-between shots. Try to get the optics as low as possible on the gun. My favorite Reticle is the Multi-X.....it has heavy crosshairs until the middle 10% of the scope where they are very fine. This is best for possible low light hunting. Keep it under 10X and you do not need an "AO" = Adj Objective....this is more for target shooting. I buy all my stuff at www.midwayusa.com you can't beat the prices. Looks like you can get the a Trophy 3-9x 40mm Wide angle Matte multi-x product 742-232 for $100. Same scope in Elite 3200 product 657-824 is $200. This is the one to buy!!!!! Elite 4200 = 968-937 = $300. You will be very pleased with the Bushnell products at the mid-upper end.....heck, the Trophy for $100 is a great deal....and just leave it on the rifles and buy another for the other rifle....or get 1 trophy + 1 Elite 3200.....

SilverCity | 02-10-2009 02:21 PM
Re: Scope advice 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampon (Post 1561272) Good Post, Dave Appreciate the advice...and the effort to post. Very good points to consider. Changed my thoughts on the 50mm. I'm shopping for something for my M1A. Seems the mount is as important on this piece as the scope. I'm looking for something that I can use with the iron sights also since that was all I was ever trained on(Smith Enterprises seems a bit expensive and , perhaps, somewhat over-rated)
I had good luck with the A.R.M.S. mount for the M1A. It is a solid, low-profile mount that allows use of iron sights. It locks down on the receiver in three points.

ruprick | 02-10-2009 02:36 PM
Re: Scope advice .41Dave has outstanding advice. To calculate pupil exit diameter......divide scope power into the objective diameter.....40mm / 6X = about 7 mm....and that is all the larger your pupil can get....bigger is a waste....unless you want the same light at a higher power.... I really like 2x - 7x here in Michigan. But 3-9X is a nice longer shot scope. Most WWII sniper scopes were in the 2.5 - 4X range. Like I said....get a 40mm and mount it as low as possible (probably standard mounts).....zero it for 100 to 150 yards and you will likely have a 6 inch diameter shot placement from muzzle out to about 300+ yards....then just hold over a little for the 500 yard shots .....calculate all this in advance....I can help you or guide you to ballistics calculators. Great Job .41DAVE!!!!!

Victor | 02-10-2009 03:04 PM
Re: Scope advice I will say Midway or SWFA are both great places to buy on-line. I have bought from both and recommend both as top quality places to deal with. SWFA seems to be a bit better price wise but they deal almost exclusively in glass where Midway is into everything you can think of.

ruprick | 02-10-2009 03:09 PM
Re: Scope advice Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor (Post 1561416) I will say Midway or SWFA are both great places to buy on-line. I have bought from both and recommend both as top quality places to deal with. SWFA seems to be a bit better price wise but they deal almost exclusively in glass where Midway is into everything you can think of.
V, That's my problem....everytime i order from midway...there is a lot of extra stuff I put in the cart....they sell nearly everything a hoarding reloader/hunter/shooter could want. I like that they have given something like $10 million to NRA over the years via "round-up" your price. Great Idea!

G.W.Tanker | 02-10-2009 03:13 PM
Re: Scope advice Tanks everybody! Yes, my Benji breakbarrel .22 pellet actually kicks like rifle; 'till I broke it. Not to mention, kids are primary pellet/BB guns users and they're tough on scopes, I know I was. I purchased a new Bush. Banner 3-9x40, same time/dealer as the gun, mounted & laser boresighted by the dealer but didn't check it at the store. Got home and the darn thing doesn't zoom; ring turns but it stays at 3x. Dealer say they'll make it good with me so I'm asking what else might be comparable or slightly better. Tanker

Victor | 02-10-2009 03:19 PM
Re: Scope advice Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1561424) V, That's my problem....everytime i order from midway...there is a lot of extra stuff I put in the cart....they sell nearly everything a hoarding reloader/hunter/shooter could want. I like that they have given something like $10 million to NRA over the years via "round-up" your price. Great Idea!
I hear ya. I got their master catalog in the mail yesterday. Seems like no matter what I buy from them on-line I always add a 200 rd. case of Winchester WB 7.62 x 51mm....HAHA

ruprick | 02-10-2009 03:44 PM
Re: Scope advice Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor (Post 1561447) I hear ya. I got their master catalog in the mail yesterday. Seems like no matter what I buy from them on-line I always add a 200 rd. case of Winchester WB 7.62 x 51mm....HAHA
We got the master catalog yesterday as well....it is now in the bathroom library.....kind of like QVC for dudes! Stuff we must now buy that we did not even know we needed moments ago....

.41Dave | 02-10-2009 04:58 PM
Re: Scope advice Quote:
Originally Posted by G.W.Tanker (Post 1561434) Tanks everybody! Yes, my Benji breakbarrel .22 pellet actually kicks like rifle; 'till I broke it. Not to mention, kids are primary pellet/BB guns users and they're tough on scopes, I know I was. I purchased a new Bush. Banner 3-9x40, same time/dealer as the gun, mounted & laser boresighted by the dealer but didn't check it at the store. Got home and the darn thing doesn't zoom; ring turns but it stays at 3x. Dealer say they'll make it good with me so I'm asking what else might be comparable or slightly better. Tanker
If you are looking for an inexpensive "budget" scope, I'd say ruprick had it spot on with the Bushnell Trophy. You can get the 3-9x40 Trophy for about $90 here: http://www.swfa.com/pc-2081-198-bush...fle-scope.aspx

TomD | 02-10-2009 05:12 PM
Re: Scope advice I have it from reliable authority that BSA scopes are manufactured and distributed by PETA. Only semi-kidding. At a match when a new shooter couldn't get on paper, we benched it and found that the BSA scope was shifting point of impact by well over a foot after every shot at 100 yards. I spend a lot on my scopes with my best scopes going between $1,500 (Nightforce) and $2,200 (March) each. I don't spend that for prestige, I compete a lot and must have very good optics and rock solid shot-to-shot stability. The cheapest acceptable optics that I've ever bought were Bausch & Lomb Elite 4000s, I have 3. These scopes are still marketed but under the Bushnell Elite name now. I bought them from SWFA sometime in the mid-90's for around $275. The optics are the best that I've found anywhere close to the price range + the adjustments are dead on repeatable. I once did a 50 click box and had an almost perfect 6" box and it returned spot on to the original center. Here's one of mine, a 6.5x24x40, on my AR. This rifle also has a Jewell two-stage trigger. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...20stuff/AR.jpg

sneak | 02-10-2009 07:33 PM
Re: Scope advice It sounds like a Leupold VX-ll 3x9x40 would fit the bill very nicely. You should be able to find one for $300 or less if used. I got lucky about a year ago and found one at a pawn shop for $100. It was matte finish with duplex cross hairs and looked like new, just no box or papers. That is one of my better finds! :wink:

____hoot____ | 02-10-2009 11:12 PM
Re: Scope advice Great advice! I have had a 15 year old Bushnell Scopechief 6x40 on my glass bedded Mauser 98 30-06 for that length of time and hunted hard with it in the northern Michigan cold and snow every year. Never had to move the control knobs more than a couple clicks for different loads. Very clear accurate and sturdy scope. The Scopechief line was their mid? upper? grade line of fixed power scopes. I don't think they are still being made. Looks exactly like the one on the AR above without the power adjustment ring.

renegade_01 | 02-11-2009 11:07 AM
Re: Scope advice I'm saving for a Bushnell Elite 4200. Looked thru one at Academy...very clear optics.

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