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- - 5.56 or .223? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=367969)

chad | 04-16-2009 04:48 PM
5.56 or .223? i have a fulton arms based lower ar-15 that i've been shooting remington .223 through for awhile. today, i noticed my fleet farm has a deal on 5.56, which is what the rifle is really chambered for. what's the benefit of shooting 5.56 through it as opposed to .223 remington?

Iptuous | 04-16-2009 05:05 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? what's your rifle chambered in?

JJ_ | 04-16-2009 05:26 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? I think 5.56 is a tad hotter - But I've never *cough cough* chrono'd it:565: Otherwise you're fine.. POI may be slightly different due to the different load - but not much.

SLV>GLD | 04-16-2009 05:30 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 1680830) what's your rifle chambered in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad (Post 1680807) 5.56, which is what the rifle is really chambered for.
:no_ma::15_1_70v::23_1_22:

Drumblebum | 04-16-2009 05:32 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1680852) I think 5.56 is a tad hotter - But I've never *cough cough* chrono'd it:565: Otherwise you're fine.. POI may be slightly different due to the different load - but not much.
I would agree that 5.56 seems slightly hotter... that's been my experience with the mini anyway...

LukeNM | 04-16-2009 05:41 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The .223 Remington is a sporting cartridge with almost the same external dimensions as the 5.56x45mm NATO military cartridge. It is loaded with a 0.224-inch (5.7 mm) diameter, jacketed bullet, with weights ranging from 40 to 90 grains (2.6 to 5.8 g), though the most common loading by far is 55 grains (3.6 g). While the external case dimensions are very similar, the .223 Remington and 5.56x45mm differ in both maximum pressure and chamber shape. The maximum and mean pressures for some varieties of the 5.56 mm (different cartridge designations have different standards) exceed the SAAMI maximums for the .223 Remington, and the methods for measuring pressures differ between NATO and SAAMI.[2] The 5.56 mm chamber specification has also changed over time since its adoption, as the current military loading (NATO SS-109 or US M855) uses longer, heavier bullets than the original loading did. This has resulted in a lengthening of the throat in the 5.56 mm chamber. Thus, while .223 Remington ammunition can be safely fired in a 5.56 mm chambered gun, firing 5.56 mm ammunition in a .223 Remington chamber may produce pressures in excess of even the 5.56 mm specifications due to the shorter throat.

chad | 04-16-2009 05:57 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? it's chambered for 5.56, but like luke said, you can safely shoot .223 in a 5.56 but not the other way around. just wondering what the advantage to shooting the actual 5.56 would be. my guess is just a hotter and more accurate round.

SilverCity | 04-16-2009 06:07 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by chad (Post 1680902) it's chambered for 5.56, but like luke said, you can safely shoot .223 in a 5.56 but not the other way around. just wondering what the advantage to shooting the actual 5.56 would be. my guess is just a hotter and more accurate round.
True 5.56 Nato 55 FMJ is military spec (M193). It has thicker brass, a crimped primer, and cannelured bullet. It is a higher pressure round, has higher velocity, with more effective wounding characteristics than commercial .223 FMJ. Tests have shown the Nato bullet actually fragments when it hits soft tissue out to 150-200 yards, depending on velocity (barrel length). The commercial .223 FMJ does not do this reliably, if at all. I don't know of any commercial AR-type rifles (except maybe some with custom-chambered match barrels) that won't safely shoot BOTH, regardless of what it says on the barrel, unless they are EXPLICITLY noted by the manufacturer. The ".223 Remington" caliber designation is common to many 5.56 Nato capable autoloaders.

Satyr | 04-16-2009 08:23 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Here's a good article I found on the subject of 5.56/.223. Lots of interesting info here. http://therevolutionscript.blogspot....-for-self.html

St. Germain | 04-16-2009 08:37 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyr (Post 1681103) Here's a good article I found on the subject of 5.56/.223. Lots of interesting info here. http://therevolutionscript.blogspot....-for-self.html
Great post. Thanks

Mill Man | 04-16-2009 08:53 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1680852) I think 5.56 is a tad hotter - But I've never *cough cough* chrono'd it:565:
THATS BECAUSE YOU DON'T EVEN OWN A CHRONOGRAPH!:111:

CrufflerJJ | 04-16-2009 09:00 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill Man (Post 1681143) THATS BECAUSE YOU DON'T EVEN OWN A CHRONOGRAPH!:111:
Or have the multiple degrees or special ops contacts "in the sandbox" to tell you how/if/why to use one!:s9::4_1_72:

Iptuous | 04-16-2009 09:04 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? i don't get it.... is there an in joke about chronos or something?

Mill Man | 04-16-2009 09:23 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 1681172) i don't get it.... is there an in joke about chronos or something?
A joke, yeah you could call it that.

Iptuous | 04-16-2009 09:26 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? ??? am i not allowed in?

Drumblebum | 04-16-2009 09:28 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 1681224) ??? am i not allowed in?
Someone will post the link to the thread shortly... http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=366183

Usury | 04-16-2009 09:34 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? While we're on this subject does anyone know if there's a difference in 7.62 NATO and .308???

CrufflerJJ | 04-16-2009 09:51 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by Usury (Post 1681240) While we're on this subject does anyone know if there's a difference in 7.62 NATO and .308???
Yes, there is a difference. By the way, your question is a GREAT one to start a flame war on just about any gun -List. Some weapons are chambered for 7.62x51, and are safe to use with that ammo. If you go & start shooting .308 commercial (hunting) ammo in them, unpleasant things can happen. Some of the Spanish rifles (FR7/FR8 come to mind) may work OK with 7.62x51 ammo, but will eventually puke (bolt lug setback, receiver unpleasantness) with .308 ammo, sometimes after just a small number of rounds. 308 Winchester chamber headspace gauges: GO: 1.630" NOGO: 1.634" FIELD REJECT: 1.638" US Army 7.62x51 chamber headspace gauges: GO: 1.635" FIELD REJECT: 1.6455" SAAMI .308 Winchester chamber pressures: MAP: 62,000 psi (maximum average pressure) MPSM: 66,000 psi Minimum Proof Pressure: 83,000 psi Maximum Proof Pressure: 89,000 psi US Army 7.62x51 chamber pressures: Maximum: 50,000 psi Proof pressure: 67,500 psi 7.62x51 NATO pressure data from: TM 43-001-27 "Army Ammunition Data Sheets Small Caliber Ammunition" and headspace data from Kuhnhausen's M1/M1A shop manual. .308 Winchester data from ANSI/SAAMI document Z299.4-1992, "Pressure and Velocity, Centerfire Rifle Sporting Ammunition" But, hey! I'm not a degreed gunsmith, nor do I play one on television. Perhaps the Great One could lend his opinion in this matter.

JJ_ | 04-16-2009 10:49 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 1681224) ??? am i not allowed in?
Sorry ... I couldn't resist:biggrin: I thought EVERYBODY saw that:signs14: http://goldismoney.info/forums/showp...&postcount=134

gangsta99 | 04-16-2009 10:50 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1681271) Yes, there is a difference. By the way, your question is a GREAT one to start a flame war on just about any gun -List. Some weapons are chambered for 7.62x51, and are safe to use with that ammo. If you go & start shooting .308 commercial (hunting) ammo in them, unpleasant things can happen. Some of the Spanish rifles (FR7/FR8 come to mind) may work OK with 7.62x51 ammo, but will eventually puke (bolt lug setback, receiver unpleasantness) with .308 ammo, sometimes after just a small number of rounds. 308 Winchester chamber headspace gauges: GO: 1.630" NOGO: 1.634" FIELD REJECT: 1.638" US Army 7.62x51 chamber headspace gauges: GO: 1.635" FIELD REJECT: 1.6455" SAAMI .308 Winchester chamber pressures: MAP: 62,000 psi (maximum average pressure) MPSM: 66,000 psi Minimum Proof Pressure: 83,000 psi Maximum Proof Pressure: 89,000 psi US Army 7.62x51 chamber pressures: Maximum: 50,000 psi Proof pressure: 67,500 psi 7.62x51 NATO pressure data from: TM 43-001-27 "Army Ammunition Data Sheets Small Caliber Ammunition" and headspace data from Kuhnhausen's M1/M1A shop manual. .308 Winchester data from ANSI/SAAMI document Z299.4-1992, "Pressure and Velocity, Centerfire Rifle Sporting Ammunition" But, hey! I'm not a degreed gunsmith, nor do I play one on television. Perhaps the Great One could lend his opinion in this matter.
9MM is for puss ies and lil girls. Why must we discuss this. I have a blackbelt is gunsmithing, or is it I stayed at a Holiday Inn once, anyway and I personally make the firearms used by such greats as Chuck Norris, Jean Claude Van Damme, T.I, and Dick Cheney. If you want a real MANS caliber you need to use 20MM or ICBMs. Anything less and your punk ass won't even be able to take down midgets or girl scouts. :36_3_12:

Igotyour6 | 04-16-2009 11:09 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by gangsta99 (Post 1681357) 9MM is for puss ies and lil girls. Why must we discuss this. I have a blackbelt is gunsmithing, or is it I stayed at a Holiday Inn once, anyway and I personally make the firearms used by such greats as Chuck Norris, Jean Claude Van Damme, T.I, and Dick Cheney. If you want a real MANS caliber you need to use 20MM or ICBMs. Anything less and your punk ass won't even be able to take down midgets or girl scouts. :36_3_12:
:5_1_120: I love my .22short is that close enough to your 20mm? :rofl::rofl::rofl::cry1:

PandaMonium | 04-16-2009 11:17 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by chad (Post 1680807) i have a fulton arms based lower ar-15 that i've been shooting remington .223 through for awhile. today, i noticed my fleet farm has a deal on 5.56, which is what the rifle is really chambered for. what's the benefit of shooting 5.56 through it as opposed to .223 remington?
Chad - you may want to read the AR15.com Ammo Oracle. Lots of good info on the topic. http://razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-orac...cle_Mirror.htm

Usury | 04-18-2009 01:14 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1681271) Yes, there is a difference. By the way, your question is a GREAT one to start a flame war on just about any gun -List. Some weapons are chambered for 7.62x51, and are safe to use with that ammo. If you go & start shooting .308 commercial (hunting) ammo in them, unpleasant things can happen. Some of the Spanish rifles (FR7/FR8 come to mind) may work OK with 7.62x51 ammo, but will eventually puke (bolt lug setback, receiver unpleasantness) with .308 ammo, sometimes after just a small number of rounds. 308 Winchester chamber headspace gauges: GO: 1.630" NOGO: 1.634" FIELD REJECT: 1.638" US Army 7.62x51 chamber headspace gauges: GO: 1.635" FIELD REJECT: 1.6455" SAAMI .308 Winchester chamber pressures: MAP: 62,000 psi (maximum average pressure) MPSM: 66,000 psi Minimum Proof Pressure: 83,000 psi Maximum Proof Pressure: 89,000 psi US Army 7.62x51 chamber pressures: Maximum: 50,000 psi Proof pressure: 67,500 psi 7.62x51 NATO pressure data from: TM 43-001-27 "Army Ammunition Data Sheets Small Caliber Ammunition" and headspace data from Kuhnhausen's M1/M1A shop manual. .308 Winchester data from ANSI/SAAMI document Z299.4-1992, "Pressure and Velocity, Centerfire Rifle Sporting Ammunition" But, hey! I'm not a degreed gunsmith, nor do I play one on television. Perhaps the Great One could lend his opinion in this matter.
Hmmm.....will my Springfield M1A shoot either one without problem???

CrufflerJJ | 04-18-2009 03:40 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by Usury (Post 1683689) Hmmm.....will my Springfield M1A shoot either one without problem???
Reading the Springfield manual, they recommend 7.62x51 NATO ammo. The main concern appears to be with slamfires from softer (commercial ammo) primers vs the harder primers used in military ammo. Reading this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-231426.html ...suggests that users have contacted Springfield Armory & received dispensation to use .308 ammo in their rifle. How is the caliber marked on your rifle barrel?

Chris_Is_Here | 04-18-2009 11:22 PM
Re: 5.56 or .223? Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumblebum (Post 1681227) Someone will post the link to the thread shortly... http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=366183
I read that entire thread, it was indeed a low point in GIM's history....and, after carefully reading every post in it, I'm still confused as to why a 9mm would be considered a lesser caliber than a .357 or a .38, but frankly, at this point, I don't care, nor do I have any desire to resurrect the whole ugly mess..let it die, already.

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