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- - Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=335412)

Mike_Templar | 12-30-2008 05:51 PM
Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? I currently own a 45 but with the price of ammo, I'm thinking of trading it on the 9mm. I know this debate is as old as the hills, but I think with cost factored in the way it is today, I'm beginning to wonder if I need to swap out or just buy ANOTHER gun in 9mm and have both? (of course, there is a cost there to buy the new gun) Anybody else switching or considering switching?

RiverRat | 12-30-2008 06:04 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? :553: No debate... I'll take a 9mm over a 45 for ballistic reasons. There's just not enough difference in raw firepower to justify the ammo costs or the larger frames and weight of a 45. I switched 20 years ago,no regrets here. :biggrin::bear_w00t::biggrin:

90%RealMoney | 12-30-2008 06:08 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? There you go. Now you have a bonafide reason to purchase another firearm! Keep your .45 for your house gun (along with a 12 gauge pump)and use the 9 mil for carry and/or target practice.

Irons | 12-30-2008 06:12 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? two hands two guns, not seeing a problem here.

diogenes | 12-30-2008 06:13 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Im sticking with 45....45 ACP, 45 Colt, 45-70. I like big holes. There is a lesson to be learned in the story of the Moro Warriors VS The United States Military.

ruprick | 12-30-2008 06:19 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Unless you are shooting A LOT ...don't sweat it..... Ever think of spending $150 for a basic reloading kit? You can reload for less than 50% of new.

crazychicken | 12-30-2008 06:59 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by diogenes (Post 1488241) Im sticking with 45....45 ACP, 45 Colt, 45-70. I like big holes. There is a lesson to be learned in the story of the Moro Warriors VS The United States Military.
My everyday carry piece is a Springfield Micro-Compact 45. When concealment isn't that big an issue I carry a Colt Commander 45. My wife and daughter carry the 9mm Springfield XDM?, the new one with the 19 round magazine. CC

Maddie | 12-30-2008 09:03 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? I'm sticking with my .45s. I mostly reload for them, though. Oddly enough, I don't have a single 9 mm. Every time I go to buy one, I come home with another .45. I have a real weakness for 1911s.

crazychicken | 12-30-2008 09:07 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 1488442) I'm sticking with my .45s. I mostly reload for them, though. Oddly enough, I don't have a single 9 mm. Every time I go to buy one, I come home with another .45. I have a real weakness for 1911s.
:applause_:applause_:applause_ CC

Ag_man | 12-30-2008 09:18 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by diogenes (Post 1488241) Im sticking with 45....45 ACP, 45 Colt, 45-70. I like big holes. There is a lesson to be learned in the story of the Moro Warriors VS The United States Military.
Wasn't that lesson that sub .40 calibers (.38's, ~9mm) did not put a man down, while larger ones did? I vaguely recall reading about the Philippine insurrection. I like the old saw about bringing any gun to a gunfight, as long as the first number in the caliber was 4. I really don't have a dog in this fight ( I don't have anything >= .40 cal.), modern defensive +p 9mm ammo is a man-stopper, no doubt. But, there is a lot to be said for tried and true wisdom of the .45 ACP.

C&L 1911 | 12-30-2008 09:22 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 1488442) I'm sticking with my .45s. I mostly reload for them, though. Oddly enough, I don't have a single 9 mm. Every time I go to buy one, I come home with another .45. I have a real weakness for 1911s.
1911... There is simply no other. :emotions16: Of course I have 1911s in all 3 calibers - 9mm, .40S&W and the original.

Mike_Templar | 12-30-2008 11:23 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1488247) Unless you are shooting A LOT ...don't sweat it..... Ever think of spending $150 for a basic reloading kit? You can reload for less than 50% of new.
Yes, this is my next move. I'm currently using my available (as if I have any!) FRN's to round out the firearm collection, which amounts to trying to figure out if I want to add in a 9mm, which it sounds like I will. Once that is done, then it's on to the Dillon reloading press. My friend has one setup with all the bells & whistles, so I can use his. We're planning on making some soon.

Mike_Templar | 12-30-2008 11:26 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by crazychicken (Post 1488448) :applause_:applause_:applause_ CC
THIS is how I wound up with my HK 45!!! I went in with my well worn P220 to trade on a 9mm and I was determined to swap to 9mm. I held the HK and that was it....... Then, I went in the other day to paw over some 9mm's and wound up doing nothing but fondling 1911's. I need a doctor. The 1911 is my favorite platform, but I can say, if TSHTF I know my HK is good to go. No matter what, a 1911 is just not as guaranteed to fire as an HK is. Believe me, I love 1911's, I'm not flaming here.

crazychicken | 12-31-2008 03:36 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Templar (Post 1488652) THIS is how I wound up with my HK 45!!! I went in with my well worn P220 to trade on a 9mm and I was determined to swap to 9mm. I held the HK and that was it....... Then, I went in the other day to paw over some 9mm's and wound up doing nothing but fondling 1911's. I need a doctor. The 1911 is my favorite platform, but I can say, if TSHTF I know my HK is good to go. No matter what, a 1911 is just not as guaranteed to fire as an HK is. Believe me, I love 1911's, I'm not flaming here.
I have never had a 1911 fail. Although I must add I am one step short of paranoid when it comes to my weapon(s) condition. Preventive maintenance is my obsession. I have a long and active background and am probably in the top 5% of individual ammunition users anywhere. A very small part military. PMJones

farscott | 12-31-2008 07:14 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? I know I have to be a heavy ammo user, because I shoot USPSA and IDPA plus my regular range time. I shoot somewhere around 100 to 1000 rounds per week, depending upon my schedule. I reload my own pistol ammo on a Dillon XL650. I have seen plenty of 1911s fail, including my own. Personal failures include breaking a mag catch and dumping the magazine on the ground, having magazine welds fail and dumping the ammo, losing the front sight, losing a BoMar rear sight, breaking a slide stop, shearing the lugs from a barrel, and breaking extractor claws. I have seen other failures including a round fired out-of-battery during ejection when the primer struck the ejector. Guns fail; every model. I have seen Glocks choke in such a manner than the gun was out of the match. I have seen Glocks kaboom. I have seen Glocks lose the front sight on a draw. I have seen Glocks with broken trigger return springs. I have seen Glocks with the barrel lugs sheared away. I have seen H&K guns fail in such a manner than the only fix was to order parts from H&K and wait, including trigger return springs (P7). It is just a matter of the odds. The best solution is to keep spares.

crazychicken | 12-31-2008 07:31 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by farscott (Post 1488931) I know I have to be a heavy ammo user, because I shoot USPSA and IDPA plus my regular range time. I shoot somewhere around 100 to 1000 rounds per week, depending upon my schedule. I reload my own pistol ammo on a Dillon XL650. I have seen plenty of 1911s fail, including my own. Personal failures include breaking a mag catch and dumping the magazine on the ground, having magazine welds fail and dumping the ammo, losing the front sight, losing a BoMar rear sight, breaking a slide stop, shearing the lugs from a barrel, and breaking extractor claws. I have seen other failures including a round fired out-of-battery during ejection when the primer struck the ejector. Guns fail; every model. I have seen Glocks choke in such a manner than the gun was out of the match. I have seen Glocks kaboom. I have seen Glocks lose the front sight on a draw. I have seen Glocks with broken trigger return springs. I have seen Glocks with the barrel lugs sheared away. I have seen H&K guns fail in such a manner than the only fix was to order parts from H&K and wait, including trigger return springs (P7). It is just a matter of the odds. The best solution is to keep spares.
And change out the parts when they have cycled too many times. What is too many times? It depends on your nerve and willingness to have to draw a questionable weapon. Does 3000 rounds seem like too many for a firing pin, extractor, mag catch, all of the springs, ect that cost essentially nothing to replace in a carry gun? Is saving that money justify an OOPS when it doesn't go BANG BANG when you really need it? Range guns--who the **** cares. Carry guns--get real. CC

farscott | 12-31-2008 07:48 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? I run a minimum of 100 rounds of ammo through each of my carry guns each week. Every time I change a part, I run 200 rounds through it before I trust it. When my carry gun had less than 2,000 rounds on it, the magazine catch failed. How can you plan for that? That is the only magazine catch I ever had fail, so I do not swap magazine catches every 2,000 rounds (which would be every ten weeks). Not to mention that every mag catch I have ever installed needs to be radiused to insure it drops all magazines without binding. I only had one 1911 break an extractor claw, but it broke three of them in less than 1,500 rounds before I figured out why it was happening. I am not going to replace extractors every 8 weeks. The barrel lug failed in a gun with less than 2,000 rounds through it, but I am not going to fit a new barrel to each gun twice a year. My conclusion: Stuff happens that I cannot always predict or control with maintenance. I do swap firing pin and recoil springs every 2,500 rounds, and I detail strip to make sure the extractor has room to flex in its channel and to look for worn parts, especially on hammer hooks and sear surfaces. My plan is I carry a spare gun. One in an IWB holster (the main) and the spare in a shoulder holster (1911 pattern) or pocket holster (J-frame). It is easier to carry the J-frame, but sometimes I do tote an extra 1911.

Heimdhal | 12-31-2008 09:58 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? I carry a Bersa 45 ultra compact, my wife will be carrying a Bersa 9mm Ultra compact. They are the same exact size and weight, but the 0mm carries 13+1. You're right ammo cost is getting a wee bit high and for those of us that cant shoot reloads(cause the ranges wont let us) its even worse. I will be using my wifes 9mm when we get it for practice and take the 45 once in a while. I am on the .45 end of the 9mm v. 45 debate, however, theres nothing really wrong with the 9mm. Two 9mm slugs will put a hurtin on some one, just like two .45 rounds will. The increased ammo cappacity is also nice.

hypervel | 12-31-2008 10:01 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? No matter your choice, be sure to investigate the variety of rifling you get. Polygonal rifling used in HK and Glocks are reputed to be less than friendly towards lead rounds. If you're looking for cheap, lead is where it's at. If you are not a constant shooter, perhaps a CO2 driven equivalent to your piece might be in order? Ruprick is right about reloading, and I'll add in some enthusiasm for casting. As for caliber, use what you feel confident with. Bullet selection based on price is like making financial decisions due to tax ramifications.

kolya | 12-31-2008 10:28 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? I feel the opposite way. For 9mm to perform you need hollow points. Which for me ended up having to buy a few thousand rounds of ball/fmj and then a few hundred rounds of good hollow points. With 45 I just buy ball and am done with it. I have a few boxes of premium hollow points but would have no problem carrying 45 ball ammo in a defensive gun. I wouldn't even consider doing that with 9mm. 45 ball ammo has preformed throughout history and is extremely effective can't say the same about 9mm.

TomD | 12-31-2008 10:31 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by hypervel (Post 1489055) Polygonal rifling used in HK and Glocks are reputed to be less than friendly towards lead rounds.
My Glock fouls badly with lead rounds. After 15 or more rounds, the bore is visibly plated. It came out easily enough with the right solvent but I won't buy or load any more.

JJ_ | 12-31-2008 10:41 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Variety is the spice of life.:565: I shoot .45 .40 and just bought a 9mm.... I figure that should about cover it.

ruprick | 12-31-2008 10:51 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Do not shoot your carry/home defense gun thousands and thousands of times on the range. It is o.k. to shoot them some....but all guns break. I've shot 1000 rounds per week...every week and they do break. Range guns are one thing .....the gun you may bet your life on is another. If you feel the need you can shoot a similar gun in training....but in reality....when you are into gun at the level of 50,000 rounds a year....it all washes together....they all become second nature. I am now at perhaps 5000 - 10000 rounds per year, most being air pistol.

mayhem | 12-31-2008 10:53 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 1489107) My Glock fouls badly with lead rounds. After 15 or more rounds, the bore is visibly plated. It came out easily enough with the right solvent but I won't buy or load any more.
My Kimbers (in .45) did the same thing. What I did was lower the charge by .5 grains (to lower the temp) and seated the bullet .05 deeper (to keep the pressure up). Now I don't get the lead fouling that I did before. What was happening is the base of the bullet was melting before it left the barrel and fouling it.

ruprick | 12-31-2008 11:06 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Templar (Post 1488647) Yes, this is my next move. I'm currently using my available (as if I have any!) FRN's to round out the firearm collection, which amounts to trying to figure out if I want to add in a 9mm, which it sounds like I will. Once that is done, then it's on to the Dillon reloading press. My friend has one setup with all the bells & whistles, so I can use his. We're planning on making some soon.
Everyone should start out on a Lee Kit....they have an Anniversary Kit that has everything you need but the dies. Here is the kit at at MidwayUSA for under $90.....just add dies for $25 and reloading components. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=423081 A good single stage press is a good starting point...and you need the scales and other odds and ends. You can add a progressive press later. Here is the description at Lee: http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...g/anivers.html LEE 50th Anniversary Kit Includes the new Breech Lock Challenger Press and three Breech Lock quick-change bushings. You get a complete powder handling system, with the most convenient and repeatable Perfect Powder Measure. Plus the Lee Safety Scale, the most sensitive and safest of all powder scales and fill your case with the included Powder Funnel. A $157.00 value. Case Preparation Tools include a cutter and lock stud to trim your cases. Order the correct case length gauge for the calibers you will be loading, it�s only $5.98 extra. An included Lee chamfer tool chamfers the inside and outside of the case mouth and a tube of premium sizing lube is included. A small and large primer pocket-cleaning tool completes the case preparation package. $13.92 value. But that�s not all! You get the Large and small Safety Prime. Prime with push button convenience and is safe with all brands of primers. Never touch the primer from box to the case. $30.00 value. Compare it to others priced at hundreds of dollars more. Reloading saves money and you save right from the start with Lee equipment. Purchased separately, it's a $200 value! -------------------------------------- This is the best deal for getting started. For rifle, I mostly still use a single stage press. Reloading is a great hobby and skill set to develop. I see it as MUST have for any serious Prep. And the ammo savings can be diverted to other preps.

GB1980 | 12-31-2008 11:12 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Not me. I'll stick with my 45 cal. I have access to after action reports as to why the U.S. Special Operations Forces got rid of the 9mm. Many a great soldier was killed or wounded due to the 9mm not stopping the bad guy. They decided to go back to major stopping power--40 & 45 calibers. Same with 308/7.62 vice the 50 caliber sniper rifle.

Big_Rob | 12-31-2008 11:34 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Dont get me wrong, I have a 9mm and I can put all 8 shots into someones skull with it with a 1.5 - 2 inch group at 10 yards. But,,, I prefer the .45 ACP due to the larger size as well as penetration issues between the 2 rounds.

latitude22 | 12-31-2008 01:02 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? I have all .40 s&w's and two 1911's and I would have to agree that the .45 ammo is just too expensive for something to take to the range and peel off 100 rounds. I reached the same conclusion with the .223 vs .308, 308 is DOUBLE what the .223 is even at walmart.

Bx3 | 12-31-2008 03:04 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Have you considered a .22 conversion kit? I had (before I sold them) a Kimber conversion (great quality) for my 1911 and an Advantage Arms (also great quality) for my G29. Both were 100% reliable and both paid for themselves within the first thousand rounds of bulk pack 22. I would shoot about 100+ rnds of .22 and then shoot 20 or so rounds of full caliber ammo per range session. While the weight and recoil with the conversion is obviously less than the original pistol, the lower (trigger) is the actual set up you would carry. This practice worked great for me in staying proficient while helping to save some frns. While 9mm is cheaper than .45, neither is cheaper than some good old .22! http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols...onversion_kit/ http://www.advantagearms.com/

crazychicken | 12-31-2008 03:17 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem (Post 1489140) My Kimbers (in .45) did the same thing. What I did was lower the charge by .5 grains (to lower the temp) and seated the bullet .05 deeper (to keep the pressure up). Now I don't get the lead fouling that I did before. What was happening is the base of the bullet was melting before it left the barrel and fouling it.
Damn if that isn't interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! Printed it out and hung it in my reloading room. Thanks, CC

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- - Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=335412)

Ag_man | 12-31-2008 03:33 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by GB1980 (Post 1489178) Not me. I'll stick with my 45 cal. I have access after action reports as to why the U.S. Special Operations Forces got rid of the 9mm. Many a great soldier was killed or wounded due to the 9mm not stopping the bad guy. They decided to go back to major stopping power--40 & 45 calibers. Same with 308/7.62 vice the 50 caliber sniper rifle.
Very true, but isn't the US military legally prohibited from using HP ammo, just ball ammo. These 9mm stories might have had different endings using high-performance 9mm HP ammo.

james9793 | 12-31-2008 07:27 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 1489107) My Glock fouls badly with lead rounds. After 15 or more rounds, the bore is visibly plated. It came out easily enough with the right solvent but I won't buy or load any more.
:452: DO NOT SHOOT LEAD BULLETS THROUGH ANY GLOCK!!! IT WILL CAUSE FAILURE!!! Google 'Glock Kaboom' if my word is not good enough. James

latitude22 | 12-31-2008 07:40 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by james9793 (Post 1489855) :452: DO NOT SHOOT LEAD BULLETS THROUGH ANY GLOCK!!! IT WILL CAUSE FAILURE!!! Google 'Glock Kaboom' if my word is not good enough. James
I think shooting glocks in general will cause failure!!! :36_1_34:

mayhem | 12-31-2008 08:51 PM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by latitude22 (Post 1489870) I think shooting glocks in general will cause failure!!! :36_1_34:
So do I. Couldn't give me one. (if ya did I'd trade it for a 1911 the same day.)

AurumAg | 12-31-2008 11:22 PM
The 1911 is my go-to .45... Anybody else starting to think the FRN isn't worth it anymore? Fortunately, I have plenty of .45, but I still need more .308, and I am hoping that I will be able to continue trading rapidly devaluing FRNs at least until I can top-off my ammo reserves.

james9793 | 01-01-2009 02:53 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by latitude22 (Post 1489870) I think shooting glocks in general will cause failure!!! :36_1_34:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem (Post 1489965) So do I. Couldn't give me one. (if ya did I'd trade it for a 1911 the same day.)
Well, To Each His Own, but all of the Glocks in my family have been 100% reliable. I'd swear by my 1911s also, and with my Glocks as backup, I know that I have a winning combo. I can also buy 2, 3, and sometimes 4 Glocks for 1 1911 that may not be any more reliable. As farscott said, "Guns fail". For the same money, Glocks provide the same quality as 1911s, and in greater quantity. James

Twisted Avatar | 01-01-2009 09:17 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1489170) Everyone should start out on a Lee Kit....they have an Anniversary Kit that has everything you need but the dies. Here is the kit at at MidwayUSA for under $90.....just add dies for $25 and reloading components. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=423081 A good single stage press is a good starting point...and you need the scales and other odds and ends. You can add a progressive press later. Here is the description at Lee: http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...g/anivers.html LEE 50th Anniversary Kit Includes the new Breech Lock Challenger Press and three Breech Lock quick-change bushings. You get a complete powder handling system, with the most convenient and repeatable Perfect Powder Measure. Plus the Lee Safety Scale, the most sensitive and safest of all powder scales and fill your case with the included Powder Funnel. A $157.00 value. Case Preparation Tools include a cutter and lock stud to trim your cases. Order the correct case length gauge for the calibers you will be loading, it’s only $5.98 extra. An included Lee chamfer tool chamfers the inside and outside of the case mouth and a tube of premium sizing lube is included. A small and large primer pocket-cleaning tool completes the case preparation package. $13.92 value. But that’s not all! You get the Large and small Safety Prime. Prime with push button convenience and is safe with all brands of primers. Never touch the primer from box to the case. $30.00 value. Compare it to others priced at hundreds of dollars more. Reloading saves money and you save right from the start with Lee equipment. Purchased separately, it's a $200 value! -------------------------------------- This is the best deal for getting started. For rifle, I mostly still use a single stage press. Reloading is a great hobby and skill set to develop. I see it as MUST have for any serious Prep. And the ammo savings can be diverted to other preps.
I am really gonna see about moving on this kit......... it seem like such a excellent value. Even if you dont know how to use it .......you cant lose by having it. Excellent find Ru :ok: T

GB1980 | 01-02-2009 11:02 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 1489541) Very true, but isn't the US military legally prohibited from using HP ammo, just ball ammo. These 9mm stories might have had different endings using high-performance 9mm HP ammo.
NO--mainly the regular forces use ball ammo but the special units use hollow points and other variations. Snipers use hollow points also.

Bx3 | 01-02-2009 11:32 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? Quote:
Originally Posted by GB1980 (Post 1491598) NO--mainly the regular forces use ball ammo but the special units use hollow points and other variations. Snipers use hollow points also.
Where did you read that, USA Today? Your information is 100% WRONG!

Doge | 01-02-2009 11:38 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? I think .45 acp will always be "worth it". Maybe not to practice shoot a lot but in life and death situation yes.

SilverCity | 01-02-2009 11:41 AM
Re: Anybody else starting to think 45 isn't worth it anymore? There is no real problem shooting lead bullets through Glocks. Is has been done in competition for years. Use HARD CAST lead bullets, not soft, load for velocities well under 1000 fps and scrub the barrel out after. And don't overwork the brass...

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