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igorthesmall | 02-16-2009 05:44 PM
reloading question I was planning on buying one of those Lee custom reloading sets for .223. They cost abotu $25 bucks and are supposed to be pretty good for reloading in small amounts. I have brass, and I understand that I need powder, bullets and primers. Can anyone tell me what exactly I should get. I am just looking to get a few things to mess around with in my spare time, so probably I just need some cheap stuff to start out with. Most likely I wont really have time to even get started for a while, but I wanted to grab some supplies now before the prices get any higher. Thanks.

Floyd | 02-16-2009 06:04 PM
Re: reloading question Lee Loaders are great. I to shoot .223. These are neck sizing die sets and semi auto weapons may not like that. As far as components, get bullets that are the same weight that you have been buying. BL(c2) works good with the measuring spoon that comes with your kit. Small rifle primers are the only size primers needed. Get a Lee reloading book either 1st or 2nd edition and it will serve you well. The Lee books have a lot of answers for the newbs.

SilverCity | 02-16-2009 06:04 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by igorthesmall (Post 1573744) I was planning on buying one of those Lee custom reloading sets for .223. They cost abotu $25 bucks and are supposed to be pretty good for reloading in small amounts. I have brass, and I understand that I need powder, bullets and primers. Can anyone tell me what exactly I should get. I am just looking to get a few things to mess around with in my spare time, so probably I just need some cheap stuff to start out with. Most likely I wont really have time to even get started for a while, but I wanted to grab some supplies now before the prices get any higher. Thanks.
Kinda hard to make quality reloads without a reasonable expenditure on at least a few more items: a good, comprehensive loading manual (or three), powder scale (digital most accurate), powder measure (for accurately metering charges), dial caliper (for measuring case length and cartridge OAL), some way to accurately trim cases (if too long), case mouth reamer (to clean up burrs), powder funnel, etc.

Floyd | 02-16-2009 06:08 PM
Re: reloading question Get one of those Lee books and all of these things will be covered. I agree more manuals are a good thing. Hodgen powder co. has good manuals too.

Walter Mitty | 02-16-2009 06:15 PM
Re: reloading question I would say the bare minimum to reload rifle cartridges: 1A)Reloading Manual 1B)Single stage press 2) Proper shell holder (attaches to press ram to hold the case while performing operations) 3) Reloading Dies 4) Case lube 5) Scale to weigh powder charges 6) Vernier calipers to measure case lengths and overall cartridge lengths. 7) Powder 8) Primers 9) Bullets 11)Small funnel to transfer powder charges from scale pan to case. 12)Wilson case length guage (if rounds are to be used in semi-auto rifle to check resized cases to make sure they are sized properly). 13) Small screw driver to clean primer pockets(or tool made to do same) 14) Small knife to ream inside of case mouths to get rid of sharp edge (or tool made to do same)

markt | 02-16-2009 07:05 PM
Re: reloading question I reload and years ago used a Lee Loader for 45 Colt. The bare minimum: 1) Lee Loader & online load data matching volume of included powder spoon 2) Wooden or plastic hammer 3) Lee case lube + a 3" wide flat sponge for convenient application 4) Ruler graduated in 1/32" (or 1mm) increments to check OAL 5) Powder 6) Bullets 7) Primers 8) Brass cases 9) Vinegar to clean cases after firing. The kits only neck size the cases, but this OK if the same firearm is always used. Doing more than 50 is kind of a pain. If you have the funds invest $200 in a real setup to do bulk.

igorthesmall | 02-16-2009 08:08 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by markt (Post 1573912) I reload and years ago used a Lee Loader for 45 Colt. The bare minimum: 1) Lee Loader & online load data matching volume of included powder spoon 2) Wooden or plastic hammer 3) Lee case lube + a 3" wide flat sponge for convenient application 4) Ruler graduated in 1/32" (or 1mm) increments to check OAL 5) Powder 6) Bullets 7) Primers 8) Brass cases 9) Vinegar to clean cases after firing. The kits only neck size the cases, but this OK if the same firearm is always used. Doing more than 50 is kind of a pain. If you have the funds invest $200 in a real setup to do bulk.
Whats a good setup for a beginner who isnt going to be doing a whole lot? Also what kind of powder and primers exactly do I need to get started? I want to buy those now first before they get more expensive.

SilverCity | 02-16-2009 08:28 PM
Re: reloading question I have used all these popular .223 powders: BLC-2, H335, Accurate 2230, 2460, 2015, Winchester 748...any one of these will suit you just fine. I would buy an 8# can once you find the powder you like. I prefer Federal Standard Small Rifle primers. I have used these across the board in a number of calibers, with great success. They are softer (no problem with light firing pin hits), have more uniform flash...my most accurate bench rest loads use Federal match primers. My absolute favorite 223 brass is IMI (Israeli). Very uniform, military spec, machined (not punched) flash holes. Almost match-grade. Wideners used to have this brass. I doubt they can get any more, but I you find any, buy all of it. Other than that, you will either find commercial or military surplus (my preference). There is a company that sells PROCESSED military brass: cleaned, sized, trimmed, primer pocket reamed...ready to reload. Scharch out of Colorado: http://www.scharch.com/

igorthesmall | 02-16-2009 08:32 PM
Re: reloading question How about these primers http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...ir=278|284|737 They are the only small rifle primers I can find in stock anywhere.

Tn...Andy | 02-16-2009 08:35 PM
Re: reloading question Excellent source, there Silver City....once fired, cleaned, trimmed and PRIMED for 144/1000. THAT is a good deal !

Tn...Andy | 02-16-2009 08:42 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by igorthesmall (Post 1574091) How about these primers http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...ir=278|284|737 They are the only small rifle primers I can find in stock anywhere.
Wait and get Federal or CCI unless this is just plinking ammo. I like IMR 4895 powder....very versatile from .223 right on up thru most .30cal One pound ( 7000gr ) will load about 280 rounds of .223 at 25gr/rd

SilverCity | 02-16-2009 08:45 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by igorthesmall (Post 1574091) How about these primers http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...ir=278|284|737 They are the only small rifle primers I can find in stock anywhere.
Hmmmm. Well you don't need magnum primers. You may encounter some pressure problems with some powders. Stay with standard ones. Have you looked here? http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.co...61%64%69%6E%67

SWRichmond | 02-16-2009 08:47 PM
Re: reloading question Igor, Keep it simple but get decent equipment. A MAJOR plus would be to have a friend walk you through the process. I started with a single stage press, never did the Lee Loader thing. I think the Lee Loader would be OK for straight walled pistol cases but I don't know about .223 Rem / 5.56mm rifle ammo. Don't buy a large quantity of anything until you try it. If you're going to reload spent military brass then you will need another special tool to ream or swage the primer pockets to remove the primer crimp. You can get such a tool for a single stage reloading press. Try to get some commercial .223 brass to avoid this extra hassle when you first get started. I've used Winchester 748 powder with great success in 223, including a number of years shooting high power matches with a stock Colt HBAR. Inspect your cases once you've charged them with powder before you seat the bullets. Shine a flashlight into them and look, the powder levels should all be identical. Get a cheapo plastic "shell holder" to hold cases as you prep and load them, it keeps them from falling over and making a mess. No smoking or eating while reloading; wash your hands before smoking or eating after you've finished reloading. The most important thing is to pay attention. If you use a quality reloading manual, use the right primers (small rifle primers), use the right amount of powder (weigh it with a good scale), and use the right bullets, you should be fine. As far as seated length goes, if the round fits into an AR-15 magazine and isn't much shorter than the inside of the mag it is probably fine. Personally, I wouldn't buy Wolf anything.

SilverCity | 02-16-2009 08:49 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1574101) I like IMR 4895 powder....very versatile from .223 right on up thru most .30cal One pound ( 7000gr ) will load about 280 rounds of .223 at 25gr/rd
Another good one. Appropriate pressure curve for gas-operated autos (AR-15s, M1As, etc).

igorthesmall | 02-16-2009 08:59 PM
Re: reloading question Thanks for the tips. I might head over to our local gun shop and see if they have any primers or powder in stock to avoid those hazmat charges.

TIED_UP_GOAT | 02-16-2009 09:05 PM
Re: reloading question Another good source for supplies: http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

Between The Wheels | 02-17-2009 06:19 PM
Re: reloading question I don't think the Lee Classic Cast single-stage press can be beat by any other press in terms of value. It runs about $80-85 right now and even handles .50 BMG and swaging (costs more for doing those.) It is USA made of cast iron and will last forever, unlike some other Lee Precision products. Shop around and you may find it on sale. Well worth full price, though. http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalog/classic.html

TomD | 02-17-2009 07:47 PM
Re: reloading question What barrel twist do you have? That and your intended shooting distance will dictate your ideal bullet weights. As bullets weights increase, slower powders tend to be better. For the guy who said nothing Wolf, the across the course guys have been flocking to Wolf small rifle magnum primers for their 600 yard loads. I've found that they also work very well with my 30BR if anyone knows what that is.

____hoot____ | 02-17-2009 07:51 PM
Re: reloading question Newbee too, I bought one of those cheap little Lee Reloaders for my 30-06 and the results really really shook me up. Had a old unmarked coffee can of yard sale powder that looked like it would work[long tubes], bought some 165 grain Sierra Gameking boat tails and CCI large rifle primers then got to work with some cases I had around. Needed a "soft hammer" so I made one out a chunk of firewood. Needed a primer pocket cleaner so I made one out of a little screwdriver on the grinding wheel. Not knowing the powder the first couple rounds got fired with a string on the trigger with the rifle tied to a tree. OK looking primers[not backed out] so I fired a couple groups; hitting way low so I pulled apart a commercial round and matched that charge[makeing my own little measure, about 5 grains more than the one in the kit] and repeated my safety measures. Settled down to fire some groups. Oh My God! My rifle that shot at best 1 1/2 inch groups with commercial ammo was now shooting 3/4 inch groups. Now what the heck am I going to do with all this other ammo?

igorthesmall | 02-17-2009 08:36 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by Between The Wheels (Post 1576376) I don't think the Lee Classic Cast single-stage press can be beat by any other press in terms of value. It runs about $80-85 right now and even handles .50 BMG and swaging (costs more for doing those.) It is USA made of cast iron and will last forever, unlike some other Lee Precision products. Shop around and you may find it on sale. Well worth full price, though. http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalog/classic.html
That doesnt look too bad. I would need to buy dies to go with it, right? I would be reloading 9mm, .223, .308, and maybe shotshells. Does this one do all that?

igorthesmall | 02-17-2009 08:40 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 1576552) What barrel twist do you have? That and your intended shooting distance will dictate your ideal bullet weights. As bullets weights increase, slower powders tend to be better. For the guy who said nothing Wolf, the across the course guys have been flocking to Wolf small rifle magnum primers for their 600 yard loads. I've found that they also work very well with my 30BR if anyone knows what that is.
Well, I dont actually have a .223 rifle right now. I have two complete lowers, and Ive been buying tons of complete uppers and reselling them online to make a few bucks, but I havent decided what to keep. I am kind of leaning towards a Sabre Defense M4, but i also have a really nice Noveske N4 Light with a Daniel Defense rail. Both are 1:7. Most of my other uppers are 1:7 also, I have some LMTs and some BCM uppers that look pretty good. I know I have a couple of Bushmasters that are 1:9 but I am almost sure I am not going to keep them around. My .308 is an Enfield. not sure about the twist on that one.

Between The Wheels | 02-17-2009 08:53 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by igorthesmall (Post 1576643) That doesnt look too bad. I would need to buy dies to go with it, right? I would be reloading 9mm, .223, .308, and maybe shotshells. Does this one do all that?
Sure. Lee dies are decent in terms of price/quality. RCBS made a shotshell die for single-stage presses but I think it is discontinued, I can't locate one online. You might want to try the Lee Load All II:http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=436640 for shotshells. About $40. If you get the Lee or any other single-stage press, I would get a hand priming tool (RCBS, Lee, etc.) like this: http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Brow...**731***706*** Loading pistol ammo on a single-stage is tedious but I think it's better to start on a SS before moving up to a progressive press. If you want a progressive Hornady has a promotion where you get 1000 free bullets when you buy the Lock-N-Load AP press. I got one for under $400 but they're going fast now.

SilverCity | 02-17-2009 09:04 PM
Re: reloading question I like RCBS products...been using them for nearly 30 years. Gunshows are a good source for used reloading equipment. https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/Mai...eId=webconnect

ruprick | 02-17-2009 09:34 PM
Re: reloading question If you own a pistol or a rifle.....you should own a basic reloading kit and learn how to use it.....and get a few components. Lee has their "anniversary kit"......has scales, priming tool, press, pretty much everything you need except for a set of dies and components...costs about $85.....dies are $25 - $40.....get a few hundred dollars in components....it has a very quick payback...is a fun hobby and covers your bases in SHTF.

CrufflerJJ | 02-18-2009 01:48 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by ____hoot____ (Post 1576563) Newbee too, I bought one of those cheap little Lee Reloaders for my 30-06 and the results really really shook me up. Had a old unmarked coffee can of yard sale powder that looked like it would work[long tubes], bought some 165 grain Sierra Gameking boat tails and CCI large rifle primers then got to work with some cases I had around. Needed a "soft hammer" so I made one out a chunk of firewood. Needed a primer pocket cleaner so I made one out of a little screwdriver on the grinding wheel. Not knowing the powder the first couple rounds got fired with a string on the trigger with the rifle tied to a tree. OK looking primers[not backed out] so I fired a couple groups; hitting way low so I pulled apart a commercial round and matched that charge[makeing my own little measure, about 5 grains more than the one in the kit] and repeated my safety measures. Settled down to fire some groups. Oh My God! My rifle that shot at best 1 1/2 inch groups with commercial ammo was now shooting 3/4 inch groups. Now what the heck am I going to do with all this other ammo?
First thing would be to throw away (or dump on your garden as fertilizer) the "unmarked coffee can of yard sale powder". Sorry, but I value my face/chest/limbs. How much money are you actually saving that way?

SilverCity | 02-18-2009 01:58 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1578229) First thing would be to throw away (or dump on your garden as fertilizer) the "unmarked coffee can of yard sale powder". Sorry, but I value my face/chest/limbs. How much money are you actually saving that way?
Yikes!...+10

ruprick | 02-18-2009 01:58 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1578229) First thing would be to throw away (or dump on your garden as fertilizer) the "unmarked coffee can of yard sale powder". Sorry, but I value my face/chest/limbs. How much money are you actually saving that way?
You can burn smokless powder in the open on the ground.....piles of no more than a few pounds.....make a very nice fire......

wallew | 02-18-2009 02:01 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1576720) I like RCBS products...been using them for nearly 30 years. Gunshows are a good source for used reloading equipment. https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/Mai...eId=webconnect
SC has the best suggestion yet. Go with a USED reloading single stage press. You won't be sorry and you WILL save a ton of money. I found this RCBS single stage on Ebay. Right now, with four days left, it's currently bid up to $41. SO, you might get one cheap. http://cgi.ebay.com/RCBS-ROCKCHUCKER...3A1%7C294%3A50 And gun shows and gun shops are not a bad place to look for used equipment. At a gun shop, you have to ask if they have any used equipment. It won't be out on the shelf and they won't volunteer info. But if you explain you are poor (who amoung us isn't) and this is your first foray into reloading and you are not sure if this is for you or not, they MIGHT sell you that old used clunker sitting in a cardboard box in the back on the cheap.

CrufflerJJ | 02-18-2009 03:34 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1578259) You can burn smokless powder in the open on the ground.....piles of no more than a few pounds.....make a very nice fire......
As a kid, my dad was heavily into black powder shooting. One time, I put a small pile (~2-3" diameter) on the ground, then very cleverly (:no_ma:) lit it with a magnifying glass. While black powder is definitely a different animal than smokeless, that one experience has left me somewhat reluctant to burn powder of any sort. Nitrocellulose & other goodies in smokeless powder should break down quite nicely by sunlight & local bacteria - that's why I broadcast it onto the garden.

ruprick | 02-18-2009 04:38 PM
Re: reloading question I played with black powder when i was a kid..... When I was a kid in summer between 7th and 8th grade I made 5 pounds of black powder from scratch......used bbq charcoal, and sulpher and salt peter from the local drug store.....had to tell the drugist it was making for a science project. Tried to make my first pipe bomb about 1.5" diam x 8" long.....I was thinking stick of dynamite size.....it turned out to be too strong of a pipe at that small diameter and it acted like a rocket motor putting out a 6 foot fountian of fire. The next try I upped the load to a full 4 pounds in a piece of pipe about 5.5" diam x about 9 in long.....threaded on both ends and used big heavy cast end caps. It made a serious explosing - the loudest I had ever heard to that point in time...(since then I've have had some dynamite experience that is louder).....it moved about 1/2 yard of dirt into a upward cone over 100+ feet in the air.....it darkend out the sun for an instant..... It was a Sunday morning on the far end of a new property development....the fire department came ...someone must of called them think it was probably a gas line explosing or something...I was long gone in the woods watching by the time they showed up ..... I was very careful at the time .....I remember I was puckered putting it together.....so i cleaned all the threads very well and placed cotton on top of the powder and lubed the threads when i assembled it..... I had to ride my bicycle 6 miles to the local gun shop to buy some cannon fuse. I was amazed they sold it to me ....I was just 13 at the time. Good thing i did not know about ANFO back when i was a kid......would have touched off a 5 gal pail of diesel fertilizer.... These skills may come in handy in the future....

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TomD | 02-18-2009 05:12 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1578690) I played with black powder when i was a kid..... When I was a kid in summer between 7th and 8th grade I made 5 pounds of black powder from scratch......used bbq charcoal, and sulpher and salt peter from the local drug store.....had to tell the drugist it was making for a science project. Tried to make my first pipe bomb about 1.5" diam x 8" long.....I was thinking stick of dynamite size.....it turned out to be too strong of a pipe at that small diameter and it acted like a rocket motor putting out a 6 foot fountian of fire. The next try I upped the load to a full 4 pounds in a piece of pipe about 5.5" diam x about 9 in long.....threaded on both ends and used big heavy cast end caps. It made a serious explosing - the loudest I had ever heard to that point in time...(since then I've have had some dynamite experience that is louder).....it moved about 1/2 yard of dirt into a upward cone over 100+ feet in the air.....it darkend out the sun for an instant..... It was a Sunday morning on the far end of a new property development....the fire department came ...someone must of called them think it was probably a gas line explosing or something...I was long gone in the woods watching by the time they showed up ..... I was very careful at the time .....I remember I was pucked putting it together.....so i cleaned all the threads very well and placed cotton on top of the powder and lubed the threads when i assembled it..... I had to ride my bicycle 6 miles to the local gun shop to buy some cannon fuse. I was amazed they sold it to me ....I was just 13 at the time. Good thing i did not know about ANFO back when i was a kid......would have touched off a 5 gal pail of diesel fertilizer.... These skills may come in handy in the future....
had to tell the drugist it was making for a science project. Oh yeah, tell a druggist that you need 4 pounds of potassium nitrate for a "science project". Anyone with an IQ of above 60 would know exactly what the science project was. When I was a kid back in the 50's, I lifted 2 sticks of dynamite from the back of a county work truck. Did you know that an old style M80 would act as a detonator if taped sufficiently to the stick? The 1st stick was just blown to fragments by just loosely lying on top of the M80. Back then that was just kids being kids. If any kids did that now and all hell would break loose. Well, actually if my parents had known what I was up to, all hell would have broken loose. I had some explosives training in the Marines, probably some of the best fun I've ever had. I guess I'm pretty much a lifelong pryo. PS: The best way to dispose of old powder is to use it as fertilizer, it's great, has lots of nitrogen.

Gold Rules | 02-18-2009 05:14 PM
Re: reloading question Brother ruprick had a friend & i who did that & it involved Estes model rockets...:getdown:..ohhhhhh to be young again :5_1_120:

CrufflerJJ | 02-18-2009 05:43 PM
Re: reloading question Ahhh...fond childhood memories! As TomD said "If any kids did that now and all hell would break loose." Yes, given the wonderful police/prostituting attorney combinations present in so many locations now. If you were not injured, you'd still get screwed with federal & local charges, weapons of mass destruction, enemy combatant, blahblahblah. Not to mention the news leeches plastering your face on the TV for weeks. Back in college, one of my housemates worked as a student slave assistant at a local R&D facility. He made some nitrogen triiodide contact explosive at work, and brought it back to the house (in the wet, semi-stable) state. Smeared it under the toilet seat upstairs. Another housemate went upstairs to commune with nature, sat on the toilet...CRACK! He had brown iodine stains on his skin for a while. Then there's the other time we were being hassled by some other neighbors (fellow students, but in a different major) at our off campus apartment. The same guy who made the NI3 brought home some pyridine (nasty smelling, semi-toxic liquid). 2cc injected under their door did the job. Their clothes smelled like vomit for a couple weeks. After that, they stopped hassling us for some reason.:wink: Even before college, I was making & collecting chlorine gas in large bottles out in our garage and playing around with burning magnesium metal. When college came, I made nitroglycerin once. VERY carefully.... Nitrocellulose (guncotton) was more fun to play with. As I said...fond childhood memories.

Wulfenite | 02-22-2009 06:50 PM
Re: reloading question Good luck trying to find small rifle primers -- Midway has been out for over three months now and no gun stores have small rifle and large rifle primers available. Even large pistol is getting hard to find now. Reloading powered is also get very limited. However, still lots of shotgun primers and powder on the shelves. Was told last month that the government contracted about 83 billion rounds of 223 from Federal and Winchester by my local gun shop owner. Midway told him that it could be a year for SR primers to be available again. Our we having fun yet.......

CrufflerJJ | 02-22-2009 09:17 PM
Re: reloading question Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfenite (Post 1587080) Good luck trying to find small rifle primers -- Midway has been out for over three months now and no gun stores have small rifle and large rifle primers available. Even large pistol is getting hard to find now. Reloading powered is also get very limited. However, still lots of shotgun primers and powder on the shelves.
I FINALLY received my Wideners order for CCI large rifle primers & some powder. I'd placed it about a month & a half ago, and not heard anything from them in the meantime. It finally shipped & was received last week. The best thing to do is to keep your eyes open at your local shops & also online. What's in stock today may be all gone in a day (or less). For whatever reason, magnum primers seem to be more available than regular primers. I picked up some Wolf magnum small rifle primers to set aside for .223 loads (Powder Valley was out of the regular small rifle primers).

igorthesmall | 02-28-2009 05:12 PM
Re: reloading question I got 5000 CCI 400 small rifle primers from Graf and sons the other day. I ordered 25000, but they called me up and said they could only sell me 5000. I guess they are limiting quantities because demand is so high. They were only in stock for a few hours...

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