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- - Anything but Guns. (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=262435)

Gr33nday43 | 05-04-2008 05:12 PM
Anything but Guns. Hey, I figured this should go here. I am not allowed to have any guns at all. What are some weapons or tools that are readily available that I could use as self defense or for bartering wtshtf? Would it be a good idea to invest in ammo since the prices of it just keep rising? Thanks!

DogFarm | 05-04-2008 05:20 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Didn't the Dukes of Hazzards have those compound bows for that very same reason? I wouldn't "invest" in ammo as transporting it isn't quite as liquid or marketable as gold or silver. Better off "investing" in food.

vacuum | 05-04-2008 05:24 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. You could always buy a bunch of ammo and just trade a box for a gun wtshtf.

kolya | 05-04-2008 05:25 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. http://www.bluelinegear.com/atnqcq.htm -Cheers

Twisted Avatar | 05-04-2008 05:25 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Definalty get a GOOD @$$ SLINGSHOT!! With some good lug nuts or ball berings You can kill a man with one of those things .http://www.1stlinesecurity.com/slingshots.html T

90%RealMoney | 05-04-2008 05:28 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. You can get a good machete at a surplus store for 20 bucks or less. Wouldn't want to go up against one of those without a gun.

Gr33nday43 | 05-04-2008 06:26 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. How about knives? Any reccomendations? And could any specify why ammo wouldn't be a good investment?

vacuum | 05-04-2008 06:37 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr33nday43 (Post 1090463) And could any specify why ammo wouldn't be a good investment?
Solely because it would be tricky to sell. I think the price will go way up, however things may happen such as them outlawing guns/your ammo (if they force everyone to have serialized ammo) etc. So it won't be as fluid, although probably still worth a lot.

DrillAndFill | 05-04-2008 06:46 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Get a board with a nail sticking out of the end of it. More seriously, I think a compound crossbow or bow, or just a regular bow, would be the next best thing. Practice is important. As with an automatic/revolver, you can't count on your first shot taking down an attacker, and repeated shots are not as rapid as with a gun. Pepper spray sounds good -- it will disable, but not disfigure/kill your opponent. Beyond that, a blackjack or a mace of some sort. One warning: The Second Lateran Council under Pope Innocent II in 1139 may have banned the use of crossbows against Christians. Beyond that, crossbows are of sketchy legality in some places, but standard bows are quite legal most places.

Twisted Avatar | 05-04-2008 07:16 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Just as spoof I looked up "blackjacks"and this is what I saw.. look at the one at the bottom of the page.....couldn't belive it !! http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/police/impact.htm T

Maddie | 05-04-2008 07:31 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Haha! Don't be whipping that cap up on your head fast! Ouch!

the99club | 05-04-2008 08:14 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Throwing Hatchet

MarinePride | 05-04-2008 08:31 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Not being able to possess a gun is a real problem when the SHTF happens. You have the potential of not being able to defend your property and stuff from the people who do have guns. If it comes to this you will be easy pickings. Let me think for a minute, if I can't have a gun what is good to engage a target at distance? The answer is nothing if they have a gun. At the very least I would have a very loyal dog to alert you and protect. Avoidance of a bad situation is the only viable option that I can come up with when you are unarmed. I would have Hoyt compound bow with Muzzy 3 blade broadheads. I'm into archery and one thing I know from experiencing it is this: Moving targets are hard to hit, especially when they are moving laterally. If you have to move the bow when aiming that adds a whole new dimension to achieving hits. Effective range for most people is only about 20 to 30 yards, but I'm talking deer as a target. People could be engaged to about 60 yards and beyond, hits relatively easy, but not necessarily lethal.

Twisted Avatar | 05-04-2008 09:03 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 1090537) Haha! Don't be whipping that cap up on your head fast! Ouch!
Didnt think about that .........must remember !!:D T

EireGoBragh | 05-04-2008 09:16 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1090515) Just as spoof I looked up "blackjacks"and this is what I saw.. look at the one at the bottom of the page.....couldn't belive it !! http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/police/impact.htm T
Cool....I just might get one of these

Twisted Avatar | 05-04-2008 09:18 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by EireGoBragh (Post 1090649) Cool....I just might get one of these
Anything to give us an advatage. T

foolsgold | 05-04-2008 09:25 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. I remember the Claymore mines to be a particularly good deterent from my military days.

electric-amish | 05-04-2008 09:27 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. There are few animals that could stand up to a hatchet hit to the head spine or neck area. Best to have a knife in the other hand because the time of recoiling a serious hatchet chop is not instant and someone could get inside of the blow or arc of the swing. For distance a Bow or Cross bow. Just 2 cents. E-A

EireGoBragh | 05-04-2008 09:29 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1090392) Definalty get a GOOD @$$ SLINGSHOT!! With some good lug nuts or ball berings You can kill a man with one of those things .http://www.1stlinesecurity.com/slingshots.html T
Checkout....Barnettcrossbows.com.....

electric-amish | 05-04-2008 09:36 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. I have one of these in the Bug out bag. It supplies a little entertainment on camping trips also. http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c...ine_1998_77919E-A

mtnman | 05-04-2008 09:41 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. I don�t understand, If you can�t have a gun then how can you have ammo?

AgAuGal | 05-04-2008 09:45 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 1090537) Haha! Don't be whipping that cap up on your head fast! Ouch!
:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:

____hoot____ | 05-05-2008 01:09 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. I grew up in a tough school. Built my first "zip" gun out of a pushrod,bolt, nut, nail and spring at the age of 12 covertly in metalshop; and I wasn't the only one that did. Think I could a little better job now 50 years later. I prefer a sharpened #1 round blade shovel for close work in a weaponless area. Walmart's cheapest spray carb cleaner is as effective as any pepper spray.

RiverRat | 05-05-2008 01:37 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. :rolleyes_m: Hmmm...self defense means something different to each of us. For me anything specifically lethal qualifies as a self defensive weapon. Anything else like pepper spray or a stun gun is only a deterrent. So do you want the capability of permanently terminating a group of hostiles or just slowing them down and making them mad ? Determine your personal limits and take it from there. Ammo will always be a good item for barter,it doesn't matter if you own a firearm or not. 12 gauge shotgun shells are always in demand and probably have the widest demographic saturation of any firearm in the US. You can't go wrong there...stock up on 0,00,4's,and 6's. .22 LR is also a good choice...millions of rifles exist. BTW: Some of the monster paintball guns with huge compressed air tanks shoot steel ball bearing as well as frozen or incapacitating pepper based paint balls.Lot's of guys around my area have modified their PB guns to velocities of 600 fps which is twice the normal 300 fps standard. Out to 100 feet they could be semi-deadly with the right ammo. :bear_w00t::D:bear_w00t: Just a thought...

The Shadow | 05-05-2008 02:15 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 1090833) :rolleyes_m: Hmmm...self defense means something different to each of us. For me anything specifically lethal qualifies as a self defensive weapon. Anything else like pepper spray or a stun gun is only a deterrent. So do you want the capability of permanently terminating a group of hostiles or just slowing them down and making them mad ? Determine your personal limits and take it from there. Ammo will always be a good item for barter,it doesn't matter if you own a firearm or not. 12 gauge shotgun shells are always in demand and probably have the widest demographic saturation of any firearm in the US. You can't go wrong there...stock up on 0,00,4's,and 6's. .22 LR is also a good choice...millions of rifles exist. BTW: Some of the monster paintball guns with huge compressed air tanks shoot steel ball bearing as well as frozen or incapacitating pepper based paint balls.Lot's of guys around my area have modified their PB guns to velocities of 600 fps which is twice the normal 300 fps standard. Out to 100 feet they could be semi-deadly with the right ammo. :bear_w00t::D:bear_w00t: Just a thought...
Thanks RiverRat you are always a fountain of good info. I like the slingshot also. My Father-in-law used to shoot gophers for a bounty with one.Got really good, could hit them from the back of a moving tractor.

Riskfactor | 05-05-2008 02:16 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. you can also get yourself a fully functional, full-tang, high carbon steel Samurai sword. it's a pretty intimidating piece of weaponry and can cut limbs off like a hot knife through butter. 'course, the element of surprise would have to be added into your strategy when facing potential enemy. this could also provide you with free guns (limbs included).

WAoG | 05-05-2008 02:26 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr33nday43 (Post 1090368) Hey, I figured this should go here. I am not allowed to have any guns at all. What are some weapons or tools that are readily available that I could use as self defense or for bartering wtshtf? Would it be a good idea to invest in ammo since the prices of it just keep rising? Thanks!
They make a laser for about 750 bucks that could kill. It was stated all over the internet that it could be made to work better if one was bright. I do not want at this time to spend that much on a laser and I'm not that bright when it comes to altering things like that. I left a link in a thread like this sometime ago were you could buy one of these lasers. Someone else left a link in that thread I do believe on how to make hand held lasers work better?

DrillAndFill | 05-05-2008 02:29 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. One issue which I can't figure here is whether to put much priority on not killing or maiming your attacker. If you stop the guy but get nailed in court for excessive force, what good's your strategy? OTOH, if you're dead, you're beyond prosecution for excessive force, but you're dead, which has its bad points. A single arrow won't likely stop an attacker, so I don't have much confidence in a bow and arrow if someone truly homicidal is rushing you. Same for a slingshot, although lead sinkers can do tremendous damage to human flesh. If later prosecution is not a concern, and you can't find a gun, nothing beats throwing acid in his face and then stabbing him, if necessary. I can't imagine any attacker keeping his line of attack if his face and eyes are boiling away.

Professur | 05-05-2008 02:48 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by DrillAndFill (Post 1090868) A single arrow won't likely stop an attacker,
Um, stops a ton of moose pretty damn quick. But ... a compound bow, while tops for hunting, is definitely not the bow of choice for putting down a human. You definitely want to go with a recurve or longbow for this. Much faster target acquisition and fire rate. The pulley system that lets you hold a compound bow for minutes on end would pull your shoulder out of it's socket if you tried to fast draw. And bows are definitely not something you only want one of. A family all shooting together (called a volley) will clear a front yard in short order. I hear all about how bows are no substitute for guns ..... and while I agree in the short term, over the long run, a bow will serve long after the bullet factories have been ransacked. The prepared will have supplies ...those coming looking didn't prepare. They're not going to have bullets for long. And bows have one other significant advantage over a gun. Ballistic trajectory. I can shoot almost straight up and have a flight come down within three feet of a 4' wall. Anyone hiding behind that wall is in for a shock.

Twisted Avatar | 05-05-2008 07:29 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by ____hoot____ (Post 1090822) I grew up in a tough school. Built my first "zip" gun out of a pushrod,bolt, nut, nail and spring at the age of 12 covertly in metalshop; and I wasn't the only one that did. Think I could a little better job now 50 years later. I prefer a sharpened #1 round blade shovel for close work in a weaponless area. Walmart's cheapest spray carb cleaner is as effective as any pepper spray.
wow Your creativity is boundless..... T

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- - Anything but Guns. (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=262435)

jrog100 | 05-05-2008 02:25 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr33nday43 (Post 1090368) Hey, I figured this should go here. I am not allowed to have any guns at all. What are some weapons or tools that are readily available that I could use as self defense or for bartering wtshtf? Would it be a good idea to invest in ammo since the prices of it just keep rising? Thanks!
How about a Louisville Slugger or better yet, a good pair of running shoes - that'd be a useful tool for ya.

Seleukus Nikator | 05-05-2008 02:33 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by DrillAndFill (Post 1090486) ....... One warning: The Second Lateran Council under Pope Innocent II in 1139 may have banned the use of crossbows against Christians. Beyond that, crossbows are of sketchy legality in some places, but standard bows are quite legal most places.
I will see you that point of trivia and raise you one== the same pope at the fourth, not the second, lateran council, also instituted the use of "the badge"-- an distinctive article of clothing required to be worn by jewish people so that Christians would know who they were and not be tricked or seduced by them. http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...ter=B&artid=83

madfranks | 05-06-2008 03:45 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr33nday43 (Post 1090368) I am not allowed to have any guns at all.
Why not? Is it because of where you live, your age, or maybe you have a criminal history?

Agamemnon | 05-06-2008 09:37 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by DrillAndFill (Post 1090486) Get a board with a nail sticking out of the end of it.
This would have been a formidable weapon against the Teucrians if we had some iron at the time. Nevertheless, we crushed the pompous merchants.

Gr33nday43 | 05-07-2008 10:05 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 1092843) Why not? Is it because of where you live, your age, or maybe you have a criminal history?
Criminal history. Got busted with my friend while he was driving in the car with a suitcase of drugs that I didn't know about. I went to prison for 7 years.

gangsta99 | 05-07-2008 10:46 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Anyone know of a good baton to get? One that extends outwards or even one with a trigger to extend it?

Mone | 05-07-2008 10:50 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Potato cannon count as a gun? YouTube - The Last Potato Cannon
YouTube - The Last Potato Cannon

abrokencircle | 05-07-2008 11:57 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by gangsta99 (Post 1094427) Anyone know of a good baton to get? One that extends outwards or even one with a trigger to extend it?
I would be interested in finding one as well.

Professur | 05-08-2008 08:26 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. Beware of buying swords, katana or otherwise, in today's market. 95% of swords made in the last 50 years are wall hangers. Stamped steel (at best) which aren't balanced for combat will prove as dangerous to the wielder as the intended target. A 'real' sword made anytime in the last 50 years will cost upwards of a grand. The best bet is hunting the antique and pawn shops for someone's old war trophy. Bring a 10X loupe and inspect for cracks and wear on the leading edge.

Black Blade | 05-08-2008 04:19 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. You can get a decent katana for maybe around $1,000.00 or so. I don't believe any of mine cost under $1,800.00 and most have cost much more. I keep a couple live blades for tameshigiri but they are generally works of art. But Professur is correct, most anything you are likely to find is junk. There are a few good swordsmiths in the states. My katanas (except 1) were commissioned in Japan and require a fair bit of paperwork and long waiting periods (thanks to Japanese weapons laws).

TomD | 05-08-2008 05:03 PM
Re: Anything but Guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by Mone (Post 1094430) Potato cannon count as a gun? YouTube - The Last Potato Cannon
We did stuff like that. What fun!!!!!!!! That was great. I don't think that black powder weapons are classified as guns per se, not to mention that they are becoming very sophisticated. You could buy a BP revolver or a very accurate discarding sabot bolt action rifle. Now, to make things easy, they use molded pryodex pellets instead of dumping loose powder.

Ghost Recon | 05-10-2008 07:27 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. http://www.defensedevices.com/foxpespgr.html

Ghost Recon | 05-10-2008 07:30 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. I've test fired this stuff. I doubt that anything could get through a cloud of it: http://www.defensedevices.com/bearpepspray.html

Canadian-guerilla | 05-10-2008 07:37 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. the best weapon in your mind something i like is a simple spray bottle filled with whatever try to get one that has an adjustable nozzle that will spray a mist and spray for distance be careful with wind if spraying outside who knows, maybe even fill it up with gasoline give your attacker a couple sprays at a distance take out a bic lighter and light it and see if your attacker is still in attack mode

shades2 | 05-10-2008 09:53 AM
Re: Anything but Guns. You can get swords such as Art Gladius for about $350. These are mainly made to be wallhangers, but some of them are made from quality stainless steel. This means they are very tough and can't shatter easily, but are pretty hard to put a sharp edge on. As they are display items or practice swords, they don't come sharp (apart from the very tip). The grips and stuff are mainly for show and won't last under continuous use (nothing stopping you improving on the grip yourself), but they do work. Here is the secret behind a true Japanese katana, and what makes it such an amazing sword: The steel is hand-made using a large clay furnace which burns for about 3 days consuming very high quantities of feedstock, being a specific iron-sand with low impurity content and charcoal. Tonnes of this stuff are consumed until the final product is produced. Steel with specific carbon content is hand selected by the producers and passed on to swordsmiths. The master swordsmith will select from the steel he has been provided. He will then work the steel into flat sections over time, constant heating and hammering drive out many of the impurities. These flat pieces are eventually put together into the furnace and heated until they begin to fuse, they are then hammered and welded together by the process. This steel block is then folded over itself something like 15 or 16 times creating many thousands of layers. This creates uniformity in the steel with carbon distributed throughout. It is then formed into a U type shape into which a core of iron is placed while heated and fused into place. The core of iron gives the sword flexibility, prevents it shattering, and can take a very sharp edge, the steel gives the sword structural strength to prevent it bending and not returning to shape. http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=pNiX_l-HEGM
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=pNiX_l-HEGM
YouTube - katana vs .50 machine gun
YouTube - katana vs .50 machine gun

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