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- - Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=287672)

platinumdude | 07-30-2008 11:10 PM
Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 What is a good .308 rifle with a 20 round mag and a good buffer that is easy to clean and reliable when a little dirty like an AK?

graspAU | 07-30-2008 11:15 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 I used to have a springfield SAR-8 (HK91 clone). I thought it was easy to disassemble and reliable. I've been looking closely at the PTR91 -SC lately: http://www.ptr91.com/products_ptr.html#sc

Infidel | 07-30-2008 11:32 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 1216515) What is a good .308 rifle with a 20 round mag and a good buffer that is easy to clean and reliable when a little dirty like an AK?
Saiga .308 is an ak and will feed reliably but so far i seen mags of 10. i am in CA so i have not looked for anything bigger

mkinla | 07-31-2008 12:01 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 FN-FAL.................:smokin:

Heimdhal | 07-31-2008 12:05 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by mkinla (Post 1216556) FN-FAL.................:smokin:
What would be a base line price on a FAL. I want to pick up a rifle this weekend at the gun show, but their prices are never good and I am horrible inept at negotiation. What are some prices ranges I should look for or at least talk some one into?

SilverCity | 07-31-2008 12:15 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 2 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 1216515) What is a good .308 rifle with a 20 round mag and a good buffer that is easy to clean and reliable when a little dirty like an AK?
What could be reliable like an AK? How about another AK? And an affordable one, too. EDIT:$499 for the Ver. 21 and $399 for the standard 308...

SilverCity | 07-31-2008 12:22 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Saiga 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25-round Surefire mags, as well as, 8-round factory mags are available here: http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/ and here: http://www.fbmginc.com/search.asp?ke...saiga+308+mags

CyberGold | 07-31-2008 12:29 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 If you are looking at a FAL - note the maker of the receiver. If it is CIA (Century Arms International) or Hesse - STAY FAR AWAY !!! These two are the most prevelent with problems. If it is am Imbel or Enterprise or DSA then it should be problem free. The CIA gun usually are priced in the 500-600 range and the others in the 900-1200 range. A DSA will set you back 1500-2000. If you can find a Springfield SAR-4800 for 1000 it is a good buy.

The Argent Dragon | 07-31-2008 12:32 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGold (Post 1216573) A DSA will set you back 1500-2000.....
Traded my Tommy gun for one of these.........the guy wanted $1200 or trade.........although used ones are really hard to come by - especially in good shape. I bet mine has had less than 100 rounds fired through it. :wink:

Heimdhal | 07-31-2008 12:35 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Shoot, my wife would KILL me if i coughed up 1000 bucks for a long gun right now :( and chances are down here at our rip off gun shows it'd be twice that!

SilverCity | 07-31-2008 12:42 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 1 Attachment(s) Many of the CAI (Century Arms International) FALs were made with good quality Brazilian IMBEL receivers and kits...keep your eye out for one of these at gunshows. They should be "Imbel" marked somewhere on the upper receiver or else on the lower receiver near the selector switch. Should be available for a lot less than $1000. They sold new at one time for ~$400... Also avoid ones with a 2-piece gas piston (they can come apart), or simply replace it with a solid one. CAI FALs aren't bad if you know what to look for. They may need a little tweaking, but are okay for the price. Mine has had no problems...reliable and accurate...does not have an Imbel receiver. I would not touch a Hesse... A Springfield (importer) Imbel SAR-48 in 95-98% of new condition is valued at around $1650...in the "Blue Book of Gun Values". You might find a desperate seller in the days ahead willing to part with one for a whole lot less...

extremist | 07-31-2008 04:31 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Ohio Rapid Fire used to build nice FALs on Imbel receivers for $550-600. I see they're now starting at $700 and out of stock. DSA is the source for collector-grade FALs, but they're 2-3x the cost.

Twisted Avatar | 07-31-2008 06:01 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1216579) Shoot, my wife would KILL me if i coughed up 1000 bucks for a long gun right now :( and chances are down here at our rip off gun shows it'd be twice that!
Then you take her on a shoe shopping spree........ make sure she gets at least 3 pairs of black ...... DONT SAY A WORD...... if she ask why you are so nice. just make the point I AM A HAPPY MAN WHEN I SEE THAT YOU GET WHAT YOU WANT( wont be noooooooo argument there) When you come home with the 1k long gun and she attempts to balk just look at her and say. But Honey........ dont you want to see me happy?? (make sure your lower lip is trembling a bit) It works ......Get your gun........ T

eat_beef | 07-31-2008 08:33 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 I can't believe we've gone this far without anyone mentioning the M14. IMO, it's the best 308 platform out there. Easily as reliable as the FAL or Saiga, and more accurate. BTW, the way to find a deal at a gunshow is to stop looking on tables, and start looking at what guys are carrying over their shoulders. I've bought two Imbel (1 gear logo, 1 non) for under 400 each. I've also bought chicom M14s for 500frns each. Another good place to look is the firearms forums and pawn shops. Either way, stop being a retail sheep, cut out the middle man.

Heimdhal | 07-31-2008 11:12 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1216731) Then you take her on a shoe shopping spree........ make sure she gets at least 3 pairs of black ...... DONT SAY A WORD...... if she ask why you are so nice. just make the point I AM A HAPPY MAN WHEN I SEE THAT YOU GET WHAT YOU WANT( wont be noooooooo argument there) When you come home with the 1k long gun and she attempts to balk just look at her and say. But Honey........ dont you want to see me happy?? (make sure your lower lip is trembling a bit) It works ......Get your gun........ T
Problem is my wife isnt one of the women that will work on. However, she is buying a new(bigger) car seat for our daughter this weekend. I can say, "well the car seat protects her when we drive, and the .308 will protect her in 15 years when the boys come over :tongue_ma:"

graspAU | 07-31-2008 01:50 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Saiga AK in 308 looks awesome. Price is right!

<SLV> | 07-31-2008 01:51 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by extremist (Post 1216704) Ohio Rapid Fire used to build nice FALs on Imbel receivers for $550-600. I see they're now starting at $700 and out of stock. DSA is the source for collector-grade FALs, but they're 2-3x the cost.
Actually, I saw standard length park'd FALs for $550 there... I'll have to get me one of them. It sounds like they are expecting more in the near future. Might have to wait a while, but at that price it is worth the wait. DS Arms makes a great gun, but 3x as much... Thanks for the link!

<SLV> | 07-31-2008 02:04 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by scottp999 (Post 1217258) Saiga AK in 308 looks awesome. Price is right!
I'll warn you that because it has the trigger group moved back a couple inches the forearm ergonomics are awkward (too far of a reach to feel natural). They are reliable and utilitarian, but I didn't find my Saigas to be comfortable. They were meant to have a pistol grip, but Uncle Sam says they can't be imported that way.

jrog100 | 07-31-2008 02:09 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Springfield M1a. But you have to have some $$$ to buy one.

SilverCaper | 07-31-2008 02:09 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 FN/FAL Imbel .308 Battle Rifle, semi auto, these rifles start as original imported Imbel part kits , they are factory built on a Metric Entreprise Arms type 3 receiver made of 4140 steel , the rifle is totally refinished in Mil Spec Zinc Phosphate ,they feature a 21 inch threaded barrel with a Zero climb muzzle brake ,original synthetic stock set, weight 9.8 lbs ,length 43 inches , ships with owners info , 20 round mag and backed up by a limited lifetime factory warranty. These are a resonably priced FAL factory built rifle and not the junky worn out part kits guns built by others. Imbell $869.00 http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/admi...imbell2008.jpg http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...asp?Prodid=479

<SLV> | 07-31-2008 02:22 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1217261) Actually, I saw standard length park'd FALs for $550 there... I'll have to get me one of them. It sounds like they are expecting more in the near future. Might have to wait a while, but at that price it is worth the wait. DS Arms makes a great gun, but 3x as much... Thanks for the link!
Nevermind... just called and they said that they are so busy making parts for the VZ58 that they won't be building any FALs until next year at the soonest (but first she said "it will be years"). Too bad. The Atlantic deal seems to be the best out there. I still wish I could find a 20-rd magazine for the BAR ShortTrac. The light-weight model only weighs 6 pounds 9 ounces compared with the 9 pound FAL.

SilverCity | 07-31-2008 02:54 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1217279) I'll warn you that because it has the trigger group moved back a couple inches the forearm ergonomics are awkward (too far of a reach to feel natural). They are reliable and utilitarian, but I didn't find my Saigas to be comfortable. They were meant to have a pistol grip, but Uncle Sam says they can't be imported that way.
I know the Saiga std .308 triggers are a little unconventional, however I found them easy for me to adapt to. Besides, I can't find a robust, semi-auto .308 for that price anywhere. But notice the trigger position on the Saiga Ver.21...It is in standard pistol grip configuration with that thumbhole stock and although I haven't shot one yet, I'll wager the trigger would feel just like the traditional AK with a smooth roll-off.

graspAU | 07-31-2008 06:08 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 1 Attachment(s) This looks really nice, but pricey:

platinumdude | 07-31-2008 09:07 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 What about something like this? Although it's only 10 round mag. http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/d...px?item=AA9126

SilverCity | 07-31-2008 09:15 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 1217811) What about something like this? Although it's only 10 round mag. http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/d...px?item=AA9126
It's a Springfield M1A...put some soft leather or felt over the cheekpiece area or that "pebble-finish" stock will take the hide right offen yer face! And replace that cheesy rubber buttpad with a M-14 original steel buttplate. Oh yeah, it will take 20s as well.

elroy | 07-31-2008 09:44 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1217333) I know the Saiga std .308 triggers are a little unconventional, however I found them easy for me to adapt to. Besides, I can't find a robust, semi-auto .308 for that price anywhere. But notice the trigger position on the Saiga Ver.21...It is in standard pistol grip configuration with that thumbhole stock and although I haven't shot one yet, I'll wager the trigger would feel just like the traditional AK with a smooth roll-off.
If the butthole stock is similar to what is on a MAK90 you can remove the stock, strip it and improve the hole with a dremel tool. I did this to a MAK90 and it felt a lot better, also re-stained it to get rid of that horrible blonde/orange color that came on most MAK90s.

oz in sc | 07-31-2008 10:40 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Some of the Century receivers were okay,do some research on Fal files and you will find which ones to get. I have a CAI receiver L1A1 FAL with full length barrel(21'' or so) as well as an Imbel receiver carbine length FAL. Good luck and hopefully you have a source for ammo....it is $$$$.

reviver | 07-31-2008 10:52 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 For the money, you can't beat the Saiga 308. Hey, it's an AK with all the virtues of an AK. Drag it thru the mud, it will still function reliability, clean up easily, and it's accurate to boot. Not like a Remington 700 bolt of course. But as accurate as any semi auto MBR out there. And you sure can't go wrong on the price.

eat_beef | 07-31-2008 11:22 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by reviver (Post 1217936) But as accurate as any semi auto MBR out there.
Umm, not even close. And the Entreprise FALs are junk.

FireMattMillen | 07-31-2008 11:35 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1216731) [B] if she ask why you are so nice. just make the point I AM A HAPPY MAN WHEN I SEE THAT YOU GET WHAT YOU WANT( wont be noooooooo argument there)
Great line....I would just modify it slightly to say something along the lines of, "I'm happy when you're happy."

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platinumdude | 08-01-2008 10:33 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 1217345) Tromix modifies the Saigas - http://tromix.com/saiga-rifles.htm
Guess you can only buy this one online? This one might be better if I don't have to put any felt on it.

mkinla | 08-01-2008 10:44 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 TOP 10:Combat Rifles - FN FAL (NO.5) YouTube - TOP 10:Combat Rifles - FN FAL (NO.5)
YouTube - TOP 10:Combat Rifles - FN FAL (NO.5)

jrog100 | 08-01-2008 10:47 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 The only reason that one should consider a SAIGA is if you're strapped for cash. If not, go with the Springfield M1a or the FN. Both are at the top of the quality list where the Saiga is at the very bottom.

graspAU | 08-01-2008 03:21 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Now you guys have me considering a M1A SOCOM II. I have to stay away from this forum. YouTube - M1A-SOCOM-II
YouTube - M1A-SOCOM-II

platinumdude | 08-01-2008 03:52 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 1218911) A barrel length of less than 18" on a .308 MBR is just dumb, if one is not a paratrooper in some army. For optimum performance of a high power .30 round, one needs as much barrel length as practical.
What about at 18"? You recommend longer like around 20"?

Brent | 08-01-2008 03:53 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 To be quite honest. If you are going to be purchasing a main weapon and want a 308 (which is a great choice in caliber btw) you cannot go wrong with a M1A/M14. Even just stock with the iron sights it is an incredible weapon and VERY reliable. Hell you can even get 30 round mags for the thing. Throw on a Harris bipod, a sling, and an Trijicon Acog and you have yourself one hell of a main battle rifle. Disadvantages: Costly ammo, heavy. The advantage is that it is (arguably) the best .308 you can get.

igorthesmall | 08-01-2008 05:59 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 I have an Ishapore Enfield in .308 that I paid $99 bucks for from aimsurplus.com. I think right now they are going for $150. I know its a bolt gun and only holds 12 rounds, but honestly the thing is extremely accurate and for the price you can't beat it.

SilverCity | 08-01-2008 09:41 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by jrog100 (Post 1218449) The only reason that one should consider a SAIGA is if you're strapped for cash. If not, go with the Springfield M1a or the FN. Both are at the top of the quality list where the Saiga is at the very bottom.
Although not part of the OP's original query, when SHTF, I could afford to arm my entire family, and some friends, and a few of my trusted neighbors with that CRAPPY, LOW COST, BOTTOM OF THE HEAP, NOT-TACTI-COOL Saiga. A point that seems to be lost in a lot of these gun threads... And you WILL want at least a few mates to help watch yer back...especially at night. :smokin:

____hoot____ | 08-01-2008 10:28 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1219443) Although not part of the OP's original query, when SHTF, I could arm my entire family, and some friends, and a few of my trusted neighbors with that LOW COST, BOTTOM OF THE HEAP, CRAPPY, NOT-SO-TACTI-COOL Saiga. A point that seems to be lost in a lot of these gun threads...
Gee, I think I remember that is the reasoning I had in buying that case of unissued Russian SKSs back in 94 for $104 each. Now if I could only remember where I put the darn things.

SilverCity | 08-01-2008 10:31 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Dang it. I know they're around here somewhere...:wink:

eat_beef | 08-01-2008 11:04 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Anyone dumb (or unfortunate) enough to show up without a weapon will be issued an AK 74. We aristocrats will be wielding M14s.:wink:

SilverCity | 08-01-2008 11:35 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 And they'll get the midnight to 6 AM watch...

Texan | 08-02-2008 12:07 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 I nominate the M14 because the sights and trigger pull are outstanding. Skimping on your .308 meteor strike rifle is a rotten idea. Pay for a really nice semi-auto or get a good bolt .308 instead.

platinumdude | 08-03-2008 11:38 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 In regards to the stock type on the M1A. Is it best to get the wood stock or the fiberglass stock? Will the smoothness of the wood stock be better for a shtf scenario, where if you lost the felt for some reason? http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=41 http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=42

SilverCity | 08-03-2008 11:48 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 I vote for synthetic. Synthetic stocks don't require bedding. Wood stocks need to be glass-bedded and the bedding compound can crack or loosen over time and there goes that nice accuracy. As far as that pebble finish...you can sand down the cheek area and repaint, or simply slap on a piece of duct tape. Synthetics are the way to go. So sez Fred: http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/article.asp?ITEM=3

eat_beef | 08-04-2008 08:52 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 There is no "need" to bed a wood stock (unless it's a match stock that comes inletted for bedding). I prefer the look and feel of a wood stock, but there is no denying that synthetic is more durable, and slightly more accurate. I have several of both.:D

platinumdude | 08-04-2008 03:54 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 So I guess the M1a doesn't really have a buffer. I will look into the others.

platinumdude | 08-04-2008 08:55 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Edit, I read that the recoil on the M1A is actually less than on a FAL. Now my debate is that do I really need a 308. I have a pistol and an ar15. I don't live in the country. I might get it just for funs and that the guns laws could change. It will give more stopping power, but I wouldn't shoot it for normal break-ins as it can easily go into a neighors home and be deadly. I could get an ak-47 instead, but that would be to similar to the level of the ar15 I have. I think I will head out to the gun store and have a closer look at the M1A, but won't purchase until October or so.

eat_beef | 08-04-2008 10:40 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 You can get a buffer for an M14, they're cheap. That said, I've fired up to 400 rounds in a day, with an issue steel buttplate, and it's really not that bad, unless you're doing it all from prone. You do feel it the following day. I'm in the middle of nowhere, and I need the distance a 308 can provide. If I were in the city (I'd get out :aetsch:) it would be a different story. Also, when I got into 308, it was the cheapest ammo you could buy, about 15 cents per for good quality surp. If I were stocking now, I might just go with a Garand and '06. If I were in town, it would be AK 74 and 5.45 all the way.

<SLV> | 08-16-2008 02:39 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 I looked at both the Browning BAR ShortTrac and Remington semi-auto 308s yesterday. The Browning is a pleasure to hold, but I was disappointed that it had a hinged floorplate. The Remington was a couple hundred cheaper, but it looked dated and the box magazine was tricky to release and reseat. I'd love to combine my hunting gun with my battle rifle for simplicity. Ideally I'd have a hunting rifle that could double has a battle rifle, but I think I'll have to go the other way. It is a close call for me between the DSA SA-58 FAL and the DPMS LR-308B. I'm leaning toward the latter because it is slightly lighter, has an 18" barrel, and costs less. Only $900 from www.rrarms.com. http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/images/?id=4852 I'd probably replace the buttstock with a 6-position M4 and the grip with a DPMS tactical w/adjustable palm rest, but I like the standard forward sling mount -- it will work well with my Harris swivel bi-pod. I'll probably just put my Nikkon Monarch 4-12x42 AO BDC scope on it, but I'm tempted to go for a fixed 4x for simplicity, brightness, and parallax.

hypervel | 08-16-2008 09:25 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 I dunno. Have experience with FAL and Garand. Garand keeps me from M1A due to my feelings towards op rods. FAL worked. A lot of folks get wrapped up with the notion of "capability" versus "need". I have no MBR's 'cept an AR with a Ciener unit for training. I CAN, however, cover about 270 degrees FoF from the casa with buckshot in VERY short order. Like I mean quickly! And in great quantity. HEAPUM BIG!

SilverCity | 08-16-2008 10:01 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1241362) I looked at both the Browning BAR ShortTrac and Remington semi-auto 308s yesterday. The Browning is a pleasure to hold, but I was disappointed that it had a hinged floorplate. The Remington was a couple hundred cheaper, but it looked dated and the box magazine was tricky to release and reseat. I'd love to combine my hunting gun with my battle rifle for simplicity. Ideally I'd have a hunting rifle that could double has a battle rifle, but I think I'll have to go the other way. It is a close call for me between the DSA SA-58 FAL and the DPMS LR-308B. I'm leaning toward the latter because it is slightly lighter, has an 18" barrel, and costs less. Only $900 from www.rrarms.com. http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/images/?id=4852 I'd probably replace the buttstock with a 6-position M4 and the grip with a DPMS tactical w/adjustable palm rest, but I like the standard forward sling mount -- it will work well with my Harris swivel bi-pod. I'll probably just put my Nikkon Monarch 4-12x42 AO BDC scope on it, but I'm tempted to go for a fixed 4x for simplicity, brightness, and parallax.
I'd check on the cost, quality, and availablity of 20-round mags for the DPMS LR-308B before I would commit to it... AR-10 owners have the same problem...affordable, quality mags.

The Argent Dragon | 08-17-2008 06:05 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by mkinla (Post 1216556) FN-FAL.................:smokin:
:wink: = darn good weapon. Centerfire Systems has 'em for $699 : http://www.centerfiresystems.com/FAL-RIFLE.aspx

<SLV> | 08-17-2008 06:16 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 1242703) :wink: = darn good weapon. Centerfire Systems has 'em for $699 : http://www.centerfiresystems.com/FAL-RIFLE.aspx
Kinda' long... is the Century receiver any good? I've been told that Imbel is the receiver to look for.

SilverCity | 08-17-2008 06:45 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 That version has an Austrian metric upper mated to an L1A1 inch-pattern lower...just so you are aware. If you need spare parts, many of them are not interchangeable with each other. If you have any questions about the receiver, give either Centerfire Systems or Century Arms a call. FWIW, I own a Century Arms non-Imbel metric FAL...and it works just fine.

Worldmariner | 08-21-2008 11:53 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 1216515) What is a good .308 rifle with a 20 round mag and a good buffer that is easy to clean and reliable when a little dirty like an AK?
It so happens I am in the market for a .308 also. I have had many battle rifles my entire adult life. My current research reveals: For an MBR (Main Battle Rifle): Without doubt, the HK91 / PTR91, or the FN/FAL (SA58 from DSA Arms). Hands down the best battle rifles ever built, so says Soldier of Fortune and Gun Test Magazine. The M14/Springfield M1A is a VERY VERY close second. Ruger Mini-14, Valmet, Galil, AK all a very close 3rd. Prices for New/Like new as found on Gun Broker on 8-21-08: HK91- Used Very Good condition- 2k PTR91 - New $1100 Fn/FAL - Used MINT condition - 3k+ DSA - SA58 - New $1100 Side note: The FN/FAL and HK 91 have not been imported for about 19 years. So, basically, if you buy a real HK or FN in "new" condition, you will be shooting a gun that is considered now to be a collector gun. So, if you want to buy a shooter, maybe a used "very good" (90%) real HK / FN is the best choice. Both the PTR91 and the DSA are reputed to be better than the original HK or FN, so says Soldier of Fortune Magazine and Gun Test magazine. The other brands of clones are reputed to be... not as good as the original. Get out and read some of the things on the other shooting forums, and, you might want to spent $24 at gun-tests.com and buy a one year subscription, which I just did, and research thier (mostly) unbiased test data base. Bear in mind that most magazines NEVER write anything bad about any firearm. Think about it. Gun-tests.com goes out and buys a gun off the shelf and tests it. Gun Tests has no problem writing a "Do Not Buy" review. None of the other publications would ever DARE write anything but a puff piece for a gun sent to them. Other magazines, including Soldier Of Fortune, receive thier "test" guns in the mail direct from the manufacturer. You can bet that the manufacturer went over those guns with a fine tooth comb before sending it off to a magazine to be "tested". And don't forget, the magazine staff gets to keep the (FREE!) guns sent to them for "testing". It might be worth calling the local ranges near you and asking about renting various rifles, or maybe going shooting with friends who own a type of rifle you are thinking of buying.

Worldmariner | 08-22-2008 12:13 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1216559) What would be a base line price on a FAL. I want to pick up a rifle this weekend at the gun show, but their prices are never good and I am horrible inept at negotiation. What are some prices ranges I should look for or at least talk some one into?
Well, the FN's and HK's have LONG been collector guns for the most part, so in my experience, the guys that own them KNOW what they have, and there will be no "talking them down", unless you get lucky and find that one guy late on his mortgage.

Worldmariner | 08-22-2008 12:19 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 1223293) Edit, I read that the recoil on the M1A is actually less than on a FAL. Now my debate is that do I really need a 308. I have a pistol and an ar15. I don't live in the country. I might get it just for funs and that the guns laws could change. .
Well the thing I think of is this... In a SHTF scenario, I want a gun that will have an ample supply of available ammo. By available, I mean that someone attacking me might be carrying. So that pretty much rules out the AK. My fave's are : .223 and .308. Or to look at it a different way: NATO Calibers 5.56 and 7.62x51 Get it? :)

Worldmariner | 08-22-2008 12:21 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1242718) Kinda' long... is the Century receiver any good? I've been told that Imbel is the receiver to look for.
Go to DSA website and read the blurb about heat treatment of receivers.

<SLV> | 08-22-2008 09:54 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldmariner (Post 1249346) Go to DSA website and read the blurb about heat treatment of receivers.
I didn't find that blurb... can you post a link? After talking to my local gun shop I've decided against the DPMS. The staff said they haven't seen a .308 gas (AR) type gun that didn't have problems. Instead they recommend the FAL or the Springfield M1A (they said the HK/PTR chews up brass, but it's accurate). Anyway, I've decided on the FAL. I'm watching for a good deal on an Imbel Metric carbine (under $1k). From what I understand 18" is the ideal balance of accuracy/power/portability. Found this one on GunBroker, and I'm disappointed that it is ended. I'm trying to reach the owner to work something out: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=107455598 http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/10...x209257562.jpg

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oz in sc | 08-22-2008 10:22 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Well.....I HAD one that would have perfectly matched your wants. Imbel receiver,18'' barrel,would have sold it for under $1000... You never know,if I get it back from whoever stole it you might be interested... My first FAL was also a carbine,built on a Imbel receiver as well,STG-58 kit,bipod,ran well....I liked it better than the Imbel built kit I bought later and liked it MUCH better then the full length barreled L1a1 I also had.

<SLV> | 08-22-2008 05:43 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in sc (Post 1249715) Well.....I HAD one that would have perfectly matched your wants. Imbel receiver,18'' barrel,would have sold it for under $1000... You never know,if I get it back from whoever stole it you might be interested... My first FAL was also a carbine,built on a Imbel receiver as well,STG-58 kit,bipod,ran well....I liked it better than the Imbel built kit I bought later and liked it MUCH better then the full length barreled L1a1 I also had.
One cool thing about the one above is that it was built by Arizona Response Systems and fully coated with Metacol III. Let me know if you get your's back! I'm looking for one with the bipod.

eat_beef | 08-23-2008 10:37 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 If you're shopping for an FAL, do yourself a favor and join up at www.falfiles.com

eat_beef | 08-23-2008 10:42 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Here's a CAI, not the best, but it's only 525. If you're really going to get a good one, it would be a nice backup. Remember the rule of twos: two is one, one is none.:D http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=93&t=570337

<SLV> | 08-24-2008 05:37 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Thanks for the info, EatBeef! I'll check out FalFiles. Currently I would rank FAL receivers in the following order: 1. DSA 2. Imbel 3. Enterprise 4. Century 5. Hesse Maybe there are others of which I'm unaware.

<SLV> | 08-24-2008 06:28 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 BTW... is anyone SURE that the FAL can handle .308 Win? Everything I read says that it is a 7.62 NATO gun, and from what I understand that is much lower pressure.

Worldmariner | 08-25-2008 12:18 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 1222838) So I guess the M1a doesn't really have a buffer. I will look into the others.
HK 91... In a world of compromise... some men don't.

Worldmariner | 08-25-2008 12:20 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1252612) BTW... is anyone SURE that the FAL can handle .308 Win? Everything I read says that it is a 7.62 NATO gun, and from what I understand that is much lower pressure.
Call DSA and ask! That is what I would do... a 3 minute phone call...

Worldmariner | 08-25-2008 12:40 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1249687) I didn't find that blurb... can you post a link?
http://www.dsarms.com/brebarrel.asp Look at the top tabs for the warnings and for proof testing videos. Gunbroker... top dollar. GunsAmerica... HIGHER than top dollar. I would consider calling every gun dealer and pawn shop within 100 miles of you. SOmeone will have either a PTR91, HK91, FN FAL, or SA58. ALL HK/clones chew brass on purpose. It is the fluted chamber and superduper extraction/ejection system. In a SHTF scenario, I will trade brass reloadability for weapon reliability EVERY time!! All the research I have done (I am borderline OCD, so when I research something, i do it in 8 hour stints...) says that the PTR91 is every bit as good at the original HK91. The PTR is half the price since it is made here. The HK91 has not been imported for over 18 years or so. The HK/clones are RECOIL operated. No gas system. The FN/FAL has an easily adjustable gas system. If the gun starts to choke while firing, the regulator screw is adjusted causing more gas to be used by the gun, overcoming the drag caused by grime. If you search the magazine articles at the DSA website, you can see the torture test they did on one, as well as the other reviews. Gun Test Magazine, the only reviewer that buys guns off the shelf (literally) and tests them gave both teh PTR91 and the SA58 a very high rating. Remember, EVERY OTHER MAGAZINE, including Soldier of Fortune, gets a FREE weapon mailed to them, and of course the staffers get to keep the test weapon. OF COURSE an armorer from the manufacturer has hand tuned the test gun before shipping it off to the boys at (pick a weapon publication). The DSA FAL (SA58) has been touted to be better than the original FAL. I would own a DSA SA 58 in a heartbeat if they were not so ugly. Plus, I am obsessed with HK's *LAUGH*. I might even still buy one. The M1A... IMHO it is a $500 that gets 3 times the price because it is trendy. If you are stuck on the look of an M14, maybe it is the gun for you. I would never own one personally, not even at $500. If someone gave me one I would sell it.

<SLV> | 08-25-2008 06:19 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldmariner (Post 1253024) The DSA FAL (SA58) has been touted to be better than the original FAL. I would own a DSA SA 58 in a heartbeat if they were not so ugly. Plus, I am obsessed with HK's *LAUGH*. I might even still buy one. The M1A... IMHO it is a $500 that gets 3 times the price because it is trendy. If you are stuck on the look of an M14, maybe it is the gun for you. I would never own one personally, not even at $500. If someone gave me one I would sell it.
I have to disagree on the aesthetic value of the DSA. I think it is a great looking weapon. Originally I had not bias between the SA-58 and the PTR-91, but after holding both I thought the PTR-91 was awkward and unbalanced. For me the rifle that works best looks best (but I'll make an exception and keep hating the High-Point Carbine). I think the M1A is way overpriced. I think Springfield should modernized the platform by reducing the wood weight and include an over-the-receiver scope mount. Then a price of about $800 would be right.

<SLV> | 08-27-2008 12:36 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 I can't make up my mind on this FAL. The guy wants $800 + shipping for it. It is built on a Hesse receiver. I'd let this bother me usually, but it is obvious that someone put some serious work into it, and I don't think that would have happened unless they had seriously inspected the receiver. I like the MagPul stock and the Weaver 1.5-4.5 scope, but the snakeskin Krylon paint job seems cheesy to me. I think I could go for it if it had the STG-58 bipod and handguard (but the HG on there looks nice). What do you guys think? http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...e/101_4084.jpg

oz in sc | 08-27-2008 12:39 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 The stigma of a Hesse receiver will mean it will never be worth mouch if you try to sell it....however if you plan to keep it then go for it. Personally for that money I would find an Imbel receivered rifle without all the fancy stuff. http://www.gunbroker.com/sr.asp?Keyw...e=++&Cats=3024

<SLV> | 08-27-2008 12:48 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in sc (Post 1256909) The stigma of a Hesse receiver will mean it will never be worth mouch if you try to sell it....however if you plan to keep it then go for it. Personally for that money I would find an Imbel receivered rifle without all the fancy stuff. http://www.gunbroker.com/sr.asp?Keyw...e=++&Cats=3024
I've been watching GB for several days. I have my eye hard on this one that ends today. Enterprise receiver, 16" carbine, bipod, Falcon grip, for $725 "buy it now" + free shipping: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=108113280 I really prefer at least 18" for .308, but it does look nice as a 16".

extremist | 08-27-2008 05:58 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1256922) I've been watching GB for several days. I have my eye hard on this one that ends today. Enterprise receiver, 16" carbine, bipod, Falcon grip, for $725 "buy it now" + free shipping: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=108113280 I really prefer at least 18" for .308, but it does look nice as a 16".
A 16" .308 with no flash hider? You might as well be lighting up fireworks to announce your position to the enemy.

Silver Shield | 08-27-2008 06:13 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 YouTube - TOP 10:Combat Rifles - AK 47 (NO.1)
YouTube - TOP 10:Combat Rifles - AK 47 (NO.1)
I like the gun expert that says, "When Western Civilization melts down, I want an AK 47...."

<SLV> | 08-27-2008 09:38 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by extremist (Post 1257515) A 16" .308 with no flash hider? You might as well be lighting up fireworks to announce your position to the enemy.
Not too hard to get it threaded.

<SLV> | 08-27-2008 09:54 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Wow... this beauty just came up on GunBroker. 17.5" Imbel gear logo w/3-position switch. Auction starts at $1,050... wonder where it will end: http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/10...1286265421.jpg http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/10...1286265703.jpg http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=108536610

oz in sc | 08-27-2008 10:02 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 If things turn out okay with the insurance, I am thinking of buying a Para FAL.....I have a soft spot for collapsible stock/folding stock rifles...

eat_beef | 08-28-2008 12:20 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 SLV, there's a guy, I can't remember if he's in Boulder or CS, but he builds custom FALs. Goes by 'AlohaRover' at THR. I've done business with him a couple of times, he's a good egg, you should check him out.

oz in sc | 08-28-2008 12:31 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 This one is nice...DSA to boot. http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showt...hreadid=239762 http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...FALCarbine.jpg

<SLV> | 08-28-2008 09:23 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1257982) SLV, there's a guy, I can't remember if he's in Boulder or CS, but he builds custom FALs. Goes by 'AlohaRover' at THR. I've done business with him a couple of times, he's a good egg, you should check him out.
:elefant: Thanks! That might be the best way to go to get exactly what I'm looking for! I'll drop him a PM this morning.

Worldmariner | 10-06-2008 12:28 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 1216515) What is a good .308 rifle with a 20 round mag and a good buffer that is easy to clean and reliable when a little dirty like an AK?
No question at all: HK91 or PTR91. FOrget the other clones. FN/FAL or DSAArms SA-58. FOrget the other clones.

Maddie | 10-06-2008 12:58 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 1223293) Edit, I read that the recoil on the M1A is actually less than on a FAL. Now my debate is that do I really need a 308. I have a pistol and an ar15. I don't live in the country. I might get it just for funs and that the guns laws could change.
The recoil on the M1A is amazingly light. If you do get an M1A, don't bother with the Springfield magazines. They're crap and often develop the tendency to only feed from one side. Get USGI mags. If you just have an urge to own a .308, you might want to look into the bolt-action .308s Savage Arms makes, like the model 10FP. They're inexpensive and very accurate. They are kind of heavy, though.

Silvestor | 10-06-2008 03:56 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1252579) Thanks for the info, EatBeef! I'll check out FalFiles. Currently I would rank FAL receivers in the following order: 1. DSA 2. Imbel 3. Enterprise 4. Century 5. Hesse Maybe there are others of which I'm unaware.
Coonan are decent, similar to Entreprise(correct spelling) on your list, but are infrequently made in small quantities. Run for your life from any receiver that says Williams on it, since they are made of aluminum, and have been known to fracture at stress points.

AurumAg | 10-21-2008 12:44 AM
This here'a a pretty good .308... I took this picture when I was actually trying to sell this M1A Standard, but thankfully I came to my senses. http://hchq.biz/mia_photos/mia_4.jpg

oz in sc | 10-21-2008 08:53 AM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 How much does your M1 weigh? The Izzy heavy barrel I just got is HEAVY!!! Like REALLY heavy. I think it looks great but it isn't something you would lug around the woods if you didn't need to...

The Argent Dragon | 10-21-2008 12:29 PM
Re: This here'a a pretty good .308... Quote:
Originally Posted by AurumAg (Post 1369728) I took this picture when I was actually trying to sell this M1A Standard, but thankfully I came to my senses.
Nice pic ! :s9:......glad you decided to keep her. :ok:

shortstack | 11-08-2008 12:42 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 I would appreciate any input. I just looked at a used M14 at a reputable gun shop - sold to them by a competitive shooter with many guns. Sell seller claims the gun, in his hands, produced 5 inch groups at about 800 yards. The rifle: Fulton Armory M14 with National Match Barrel, mint compensator (on the end of the barrel) and 4 extra mags (10 shot I think). Also, the rifle is stamped M14 not M1A - what is the diff? They are asking $2,200 - been for sale two months. Gun shop is one of the oldest in the area. They say the gun in pretty much in mint condition. They claim that Fulton Armory is Much better then an Springfield armory off the shelf new gun. They claim this rifle would retail new for a tad over 3 grand. Wood stocks, looks alot like the National match M1A from the Springfield armory web site or this rifle from the impact guns website http://www.impactguns.com/store/SS-32902.html Springfield M1A Oversize 308 Walnut Stock With Stainless Steel Barrel California Version Price: $2,477.99 Manufacturer: SPRINGFIELD INC Manufacturer Item #: SA9802CA Impact Item #: SS-32902 Out of stock, accepting orders. [Add to Cart] [Add to Wishlist] [View Cart]

Texan | 11-08-2008 01:27 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Shortstack, if you're considering dropping that much dough, why not spend another bill and get an LRB? LRB forged receivers are generally considered the cream of the crop. http://www.m14tfl.com/upload/showthread.php?t=60584 Don't rule out a Norinco or Polytech m14. You can get one for well less than a grand if you keep an eye out at the m14 or ar15.com forums. Then use the rest of your money on 2k rounds of ammo and 10-20 mags.

shortstack | 11-08-2008 02:33 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 The LRB showroom is only 45 miles from my house, thanks. I am budgeting 5k for the rifle and rounds, so I might as well get the best rifle possible. And the best is defined as a rugged last forever shooter, not some finicky precision rifle that will not shoot if it starts to snow out, or if it gets a litlle wet. As far as your advise about the forged receiver as opposed to the other type, I don't know the difference between a forged receiver and a labrador receiver so clearly I have a few things to learn. All I know is I will only purchase something American made - I was also looking at the 1903 Springfield. The older gun would be an antique and I don't think its considered an assault rifle - so nobody can ever legislate it's legality away at some point down the road. Also, the antique would draw less questions from friends and family about why I would want to own something bigger then a 22 or shotgun I also will be buying at least 3 thousand rounds. Hopefully it will only take me 1,000 rounds to become an OK shot. I figure 5 trips to the range, 200 shots each and I should be OK and still have 2k rounds left. Would you suggest I take a rifle course, or just rely on my experience shooting a 22 when I was a teenager (new bigger gun, but same shooting theory I had down pat with the 22 so very long ago)

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mkinla | 11-08-2008 04:02 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by shortstack (Post 1405119) I also will be buying at least 3 thousand rounds. Hopefully it will only take me 1,000 rounds to become an OK shot. I figure 5 trips to the range, 200 shots each and I should be OK and still have 2k rounds left. Would you suggest I take a rifle course, or just rely on my experience shooting a 22 when I was a teenager (new bigger gun, but same shooting theory I had down pat with the 22 so very long ago)
Most experts will tell you that sharpshooters are made, not born. As with everything else, practice makes perfect. You can try exercise, yoga and a lot of discipline to control you breathing and become aware of your heart beats. Then, all you need is a good rifle and a lot of time to practice. Also, I suggest you make a program and don�t mix ammo until you have mastered one kind of bullet and caliber. Same thing with your firing position and scope. Guns may look alike, but they are very different when you want accuracy. First things first though, practice good safety techniques, get use to the rifle then your breaking, then the amount of pressure you have on your finger. The most important part to being a good marksmen is to be consistent in everything I've mentioned. Good luck, and remember to HAVE FUN.... :ok:

StrawMan=Corporation | 11-08-2008 04:18 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 When considering a FAL type rifle a cheap insurance policy would be to replace the "FULL AUTO SELECTOR" shown in pic below with a Semi auto Selector. This will help if your CLONE FAL rifle ever gets into a uneducated LEO or LEA,s hands and they put it through the standard full auto test and find that the HAMMER will drop when the action is cycled with the selector in the A position. A semi auto selector can be purchased for 25.00 at: http://www.dsarms.com/Semi-Auto-Sele...ctinfo/US076B/ http://www.dsarms.com/images/US076B.jpg Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1257828) Wow... this beauty just came up on GunBroker. 17.5" Imbel gear logo w/3-position switch. Auction starts at $1,050... wonder where it will end: http://san1.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/10...1286265703.jpg http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=108536610

Lt Dan | 11-08-2008 04:31 PM
Re: Want a good reliable low maintenance .308 Quote:
Originally Posted by igorthesmall (Post 1219093) I have an Ishapore Enfield in .308 that I paid $99 bucks for from aimsurplus.com. I think right now they are going for $150. I know its a bolt gun and only holds 12 rounds, but honestly the thing is extremely accurate and for the price you can't beat it.
I have one along with an M1A, the Ishy is very accurate at least for me, and that is with the stock open sights. The mag that came with mine was pretty well wore out. I replaced it with a new (while I could find one) mag and solved the feeding problems. I suspect it is just the spring as when I eject a round, the next one does not always feed out of the mag and I end up dropping the hammer on an empty chamber.

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