Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)
- Firearms (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159)
- - Proper CCW mindset articulated (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=325680)

StrawMan=Corporation | 11-26-2008 02:48 AM
Proper CCW mindset articulated I saw this on a gun board. Absorb at your leisure. Quote:
10 things non-gun people should know about Concealed Weapons Permit holders. 1. We don’t carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply making wise choices about where one goes and what one does. We don’t walk down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don’t get intoxicated in public or hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and don’t hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is our last resort, not our first. 2. We don’t think we are cops, spies, or superheros. We aren’t hoping that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we can shoot a criminal. We don’t take it upon ourselves to get involved in situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by and being a good witness. We don’t believe our guns give us any authority over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of responsibility for your personal safety. Except for extraordinary circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you out of situations you could have avoided. 3. We are LESS likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or “rage” incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting someone after a traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don’t pull our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing what we want. 4. We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other security measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership. 5. Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well made precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun simply laying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to discharge on its own. 6. We do not believe in the concept of “accidental discharges”. There are no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned how to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun “going off” was the result of negligence on somebody’s part. Our recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us among the safest firearms owners in America. 7. Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly that: concealed. However, there are times with an observant fellow citizen may spot our firearm or the print of our firearm under our clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also realize that our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good judgment and clear thinking if they feel to need to take action. Please recognize that it’s very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a store manager or private security. Please don’t generalize or sensationalize what you observed. Comments like “there’s a guy running around in the store with a gun” or even simply “I saw a man with a gun in the store” could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature of the incident. 8. The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that we believe that place to be unsafe. If we believe a place to be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible. However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place and at any time. Criminals do not observe “gun free zones”. If trouble does come, we do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any given time based on "how safe" we think a location is. 9. Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in situations where the use of deadly force is appropriate to save lives. Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal can do as he pleases. 10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit holders don’t believe that every person should necessarily be armed. We recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose not to carry a firearm yourself please oppose measures to limit the ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before: criminals do not observe “gun free zones”. Help by not supporting laws that require citizens to be unarmed victims.

Lt Dan | 11-26-2008 07:52 AM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Thanks for sharing! It speaks volumes.

RoadKing | 11-26-2008 08:55 AM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Man...that is a great read. I'm a relative Noob, and working on getting my Conceal Carry Permit. I find myself trying to start thinking exactly as described, but now I have it in writing. What a responsibility we've been given a priviledge to own. Thanks

StrawMan=Corporation | 11-26-2008 03:51 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Thanks guys. I just took my re qualify class and will post my targets when I get back from town. Must scan them first.

AlterEgo | 11-26-2008 04:44 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Do Not and I repeat Do Not get a concealed weapons permit. If perhaps you are ever accused (rightly or FALSELY) by anyone your home WILL be assaulted by the swat team with the shoot to kill mentality. Just carry and follow the above advice, the penalty is less. First hand experience, as this happened to my neighbor, God rest his soul.

Twisted Avatar | 11-26-2008 05:53 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterEgo (Post 1436689) Do Not and I repeat Do Not get a concealed weapons permit. If perhaps you are ever accused (rightly or FALSELY) by anyone your home WILL be assaulted by the swat team with the shoot to kill mentality. Just carry and follow the above advice, the penalty is less. First hand experience, as this happened to my neighbor, God rest his soul.
You cant just leave a post like that...... You have to give us the story...... as a matter of fact that this needs its own thread. Do share. T

mtnman | 11-26-2008 06:01 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated More thoughts on CCW (shamelessly stolen from another site): I carry a gun whenever it is legal, and not impolite for me to do so. When I am entering the home or place of business of someone I don't know, I will inform them I am armed, and ask them if they would prefer I not carry a gun while there. It's just polite. A lot of people ask me "Why do you carry a gun, do you expect trouble?" No, I carry a gun not because I expect trouble, but because I can. If I was expecting trouble I'd carry a 12ga. More in the extended entry... The practice of carrying a weapon is a clear assertion that I am a man. By that I'm not talking about macho bullshit; By saying I am a man, I mean that I am an adult, responsible for my actions, and willing to accept the consequences of them. When you carry a gun you have in your hands (or on your hip), the ability to end any mans life. This is a massive responsibility, second only to that of raising children. Many people are uncomfortable with that responsiblity. They believe that they can't be trusted with it, and by extension, neither can anyone else. They fall back on saying "the police" or "the government" should take care of that. Someone with special training, and the blessings of the state should be responsible, but not me, or you, or anyone else. I can think of no clearer way of saying "I am immature, and not to be trusted". When I carry a gun, I accept the fact that I may kill someone. I don't ever plan on doing it, I hope it doesn't happen, but it may. I am prepared for this possiblity, and I accept the consequences should it happen. A few months ago, I broke up with a girlfriend over this. She asked me what I would do to someone if they tried to rape her. I told her flat out that I would kill him. No hesitation there at all. She told me later that from that moment, she was afraid of me. I asked her what she would do if someone tried to rape her. She said she wouldnt fight. "What if you had a gun, would you shoot the guy to stop it", no she wouldnt do that. "ok what if I was there and I shot him, would that be OK", no of course not. Finally I asked "What if a cop came along, and he shot the guy would that be ok" well of course, he's a cop. That attitude frankly baffles, and disgusts me, yet there are so many people who hold it. They feel morally superior because they would never "sink to that level". Personally I would consider that pretty clear evidence of moral bankruptcy. The same applies to people who would never fight in a war, but are OK with soldiers and cops defending their rights. Oh, they'll protest, and march in the streets, but actually doing anything? No they're all above that and have disdain for everyone else who isn't, calling us savages, and rednecks, and barbarians etc... I carry a gun because it is my right, and because I am responsible enough to exercise it. I feel nothing but pity or contempt for those who are not.

Twisted Avatar | 11-26-2008 07:36 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 1436786) I carry a gun because it is my right, and because I am responsible enough to exercise it. I feel nothing but pity or contempt for those who are not.
Classic Mtnman. :applause_:applause_:applause_:applause_

Agamemnon | 11-26-2008 09:24 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Mine isn't concealed. I don't like asking permission. I just carry. On my hip or in the truck window. If SHTF ... I will carry concealed ... and still not ask permission ... .

SLV>GLD | 11-26-2008 09:33 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKing (Post 1435941) What a responsibility we've been given a priviledge to own.
Call me pedantic but I say the RIGHT to bear arms is just that and not a privilege to be revoked on a whim.

Twisted Avatar | 11-26-2008 09:37 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1437098) Call me pedantic but I say the RIGHT to bear arms is just that and not a privilege to be revoked on a whim.
I dont care about RIGHTS I dont care about PRIVILEGES ALL I CARE ABOUT ARE FREEDOMS......FREEDOMS TRUMP ALL. T

koyaanisqatsi | 11-27-2008 12:05 AM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Many sobering thoughts here, thanks to all! Here's another few thoughts about our "responsibility" I suppose, as I take the certification course early next month... "I believe that every right implies a responsibility every opportunity an obligation every possession a duty." http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...eller_1885.jpg John Davison Rockefeller (July 8, 1839 – May 23, 1937) revolutionized the petroleum industry and defined the structure of modern philanthropy. Rockefeller kept his stock and as gasoline grew in importance, his wealth soared and he became the world's richest man and first American billionaire, and is often regarded as the richest person in history... But seriously, I agree with J. D. Rockefellar's words -- as regarding concealed carry responsibility. Also consider the general record and the responsibility we hold with a CCP: There is empirical evidence this policy works. The most comprehensive research to date on the relationship between concealed carry laws and mass public shootings was published in 2003 by an economics professor at Yale University, John R. Lott, in his book titled, “The Bias Against Guns”. John Lott is a renowned economist from Yale University whose study is the most comprehensive and methodologically sound analysis ever conducted on the relationship between firearms and crime. The study was conducted over a period of 18 years and incorporated over 3,000 counties nationwide. Over a dozen peer statisticians have replicated the results of his research, and his conclusions have withstood even the most rigid scrutiny. His research was first presented in the Journal of Legal Studied and a forum at the CATO Institute. Summaries of his most compelling conclusions are: - CCW permit holders are virtually never involved in the commission of any crime, much less murder - Since 1997, 30% of all school shootings have been stopped by a citizen using a firearm. Only 1% of the news stories that cover these school shootings mention this…this is very dangerous for public policy measures that rely on real and accurate data to determine deterrence actions. - States without CCW laws account for 90% of the incidents, deaths, and injuries from public mass shootings - States enacting CCW laws have seen an average reduction of 78% in deaths and injuries from mass shootings. - States with less restrictive CCW laws have seen the greatest reduction in attacks, deaths, and injuries from mass shootings. AR is unfortunately one of the top 7 most restrictive. The lifting of prohibited areas such as schools and churches would have the most significant further reducing effects, seeing as these are the most common places targeted by mass killers. - Limiting the places where permit holders are allowed to carry increases the overall number of attacks, deaths, and injuries in those prohibited areas - The only firearm law that reduces public mass shootings is the enactment of CCW laws... ... Concealed carry holders are the best prevention policy. According to the National Center for Policy Analysis, who conducted a study of Texas concealed carry revocation rates in the year 2000, Texas concealed carry holders proved to be 5.7 times less likely to commit a violent crime, and 14 times less likely to commit a non-violent offense. I recently received from State Police Headquarters the yearly number of revocations of all Arkansas licensees since our law was put into affect 12 years ago (146 total). For all offenses that would lead to a revocation, Arkansas concealed carry holders were shown to be almost 300% more law-abiding than Texan concealed carry holders, so imagine how much less likely our licensees are to commit violent or non-violent crimes… this is truly a tribute to the men and women in Arkansas who carry concealed. As for violent crime in Arkansas; in 2004 there were 5 violent offenses out of 51,000 total licensees, in 2005 there were 3 offenses out of 54,000, and in 2006 there was 1 violent crime out of 57,000 total licensees. To put this into perspective, the US Department of Justice estimated the violent crime rate in 2005, at a 40-year all time low… 21 violent crimes per 1,000 citizens. If you extrapolate the violent crime data of Arkansas concealed carry holders above, this gives a rate of .1 in 2004, .06 in 2005, and .02 in 2006…or 1000 times less the violent crime rate of the average American citizen. I presented this data to the House Judiciary Committee in February of this year. Arkansas concealed carry holders are some of the most law abiding individuals in the country…much more so than the average citizen or police officer…and are the default best solution to preventing the atrocities that have affected so many of our children. http://www.arkansascca.org/blog/inde...nt=detail&id=5 And finally: "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it." ~ George Bernard Shaw

GunNut | 11-27-2008 12:58 AM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Not sure what forum you got that off from, but I know it was started on zombiehuters.org. I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if it has been reposted a number of times on different forums. Even though the forum has a name like that most people wouldn't take them seriously, in general there are a lot of level-headed serious surivalist on that forum. That post is a few years old, it is an excellent post. I'm glad to see it making it's way around.

StrawMan=Corporation | 11-27-2008 10:04 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Here are my Requalification targets. I scored 30/30 on all but one. Para Ordnance 1445 Score 30/30 http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...Requalify4.jpg Colt Officers 45 ACP This was the first time I ever fired this gun Score 28/30. http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...Requalify3.jpg Sig Sauer P226 9mm Score 30/30 http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...Requalify2.jpg Sig Sauer P229 40SW Score 30/30 http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...Requalify1.jpg

shades2 | 11-28-2008 02:45 AM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated From what range?

RoadKing | 11-28-2008 02:05 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1437098) Call me pedantic but I say the RIGHT to bear arms is just that and not a privilege to be revoked on a whim.
Pendanti, I guess I used the word 'priviledge' because I for one believe that in order to have a 'right' one must actually do something to deserve that 'right'. Even though I served 6 years during Viet Nam war, I have once again humbled myself to believing that it is a 'priviledge'. Ex: Go to another country and see what 'rights' you possess. The brave men and women out there right now protecting your and my freedoms for the 'priviledge' to bear arms (one example) are the only ones who have gained the 'right'......ServiceFolks, Police, etc.... The originators of the Constitution used the word 'Right' to bear arms, because they actually did something, thus giving them all the ability to live in that manner. Just my extreme humble opinion, RK

StrawMan=Corporation | 11-28-2008 06:48 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated The range in feet was 50 or a metric equivalent in meters. Or If you meant the range like in Gun club it was one in a city by the name of Gridley, California. Although I was not familiar with the range I had never been there before and had to Google it to figure out how to get there. Quote:
Originally Posted by shades2 (Post 1438461) From what range?

Worldmariner | 12-01-2008 03:05 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1436775) You cant just leave a post like that...... You have to give us the story...... as a matter of fact that this needs its own thread. Do share. T
I agree... It needs it's own thread so I can personally de-bunk the myth of "Don't get a CCW, just carry anyway". Carrying without a CCW when one is required is the most PROFOUNDLY stupid advice a person can give, or receive.

Agamemnon | 12-01-2008 08:13 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Question - Whatever happened to open carry ? Answer - After a few decades of police harassment the gun owner was convinced to carry those shameful weapons concealed and signing a permit to bare arms. Liberty is usually stolen by consent. .

Fatboy | 12-01-2008 10:02 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldmariner (Post 1442991) I agree... It needs it's own thread so I can personally de-bunk the myth of "Don't get a CCW, just carry anyway". Carrying without a CCW when one is required is the most PROFOUNDLY stupid advice a person can give, or receive.
In a few months ask Plaxico Burress about it and get his opinion on carrying concealed without a permit. Should be good for three years minimum, no questions. We will have to see how this one plays out, I bet everyone goes down, from the dumb a** that shot himself (out of the NFL and in jail), the guy that let him in the club without going through the metal detector (unemployed), his teammate that took off to dispose of the gun (out of the NFL, possible jail time), the hospital and staff that did not report the GS wound that came in for treatment to the police (??), et al. Stay tuned, this will be interesting.

keehah | 12-01-2008 10:18 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Belfast Telegraph, Nov.29,08: Mumbai photographer: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera. Armed police would not fire back Quote:
The gunmen were terrifyingly professional, making sure at least one of them was able to fire their rifle while the other reloaded. By the time he managed to capture the killer on camera, Mr D'Souza had already seen two gunmen calmly stroll across the station concourse shooting both civilians and policemen, many of whom, he said, were armed but did not fire back. But what angered Mr D'Souza almost as much were the masses of armed police hiding in the area who simply refused to shoot back. "There were armed policemen hiding all around the station but none of them did anything," he said. "At one point, I ran up to them and told them to use their weapons. I said, 'Shoot them, they're sitting ducks!' but they just didn't shoot back." As the gunmen fired at policemen taking cover across the street, Mr D'Souza realised a train was pulling into the station unaware of the horror within. "I couldn't believe it. We rushed to the platform and told everyone to head towards the back of the station. Those who were older and couldn't run, we told them to stay put." The militants returned inside the station and headed towards a rear exit towards Chowpatty Beach. Mr D'Souza added: "I told some policemen the gunmen had moved towards the rear of the station but they refused to follow them. What is the point if having policemen with guns if they refuse to use them? I only wish I had a gun rather than a camera."

Twisted Avatar | 12-01-2008 10:27 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Quote:
Originally Posted by keehah (Post 1443845) Belfast Telegraph, Nov.29,08: Mumbai photographer: I wish I'd had a gun, not a camera. Armed police would not fire back
See what happens when they have a reall fight one there hands?? They get on there knees and start punking. Cops are not in the business of protecting you......... they are in business of writing money orders for the State. T

koyaanisqatsi | 12-01-2008 10:50 PM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon (Post 1437084) Mine isn't concealed. I don't like asking permission. I just carry. On my hip or in the truck window. If SHTF ... I will carry concealed ... and still not ask permission ... .
Ag, that's all well and good for you and warning people off away from threatening you, so as you wish. Consider however that when you carry a gun openly you have elected to 'take form' and reveal your defenses to a potential assailant who may now study you for vulnerablities... ... as he remains 'formless', appearing as no threat, no target -- until the moment he 'takes form' and hits you with a 1" pipe or hammer in the head and gets your gun. He is like a copperhead snake, 'formless.' He is like a land mine, 'formless', lurking anywhere but nowhere to be seen. You are 'formed' into 'formation' and show your strength, but it means nothing to a threat with no 'form.' He remains anonymous and invisible until the instant he takes 'formation' and strikes. He alone, and not you, will choose the time and place of battle ... usually the decisive factor. He is lightning from a cloud, you are but a treetop, waiting there with comfort in your strength... until he strikes from the misty cloud... all at once, whammo! Or if he is involved in a bank robbery he will shoot you first, like the bank guard, you are the most obvious target. You become the initial victim to be taken out first and at once so he can commense the planned robbery. Or imagine that an airline wants to place a sky marshall on every airplane. Would you have the one marshall carry a pistol for any and all to see in the open? Or would you let the potential hijackers and passengers know that one passenger on board is trained to kill and well armed, but he is undercover and no one knows which one? A sniper is perhaps the most terrifying of any infantryman. Why is a sniper so well camoflaged? Would he not be more effective (terrifying and deadly) in blaze orange? It's the same rifle ... one is better concealed. In my mind fear of the unknown (concealed carry) is more terrifying to a criminal than his preferred alternative of being able to identify a threat (open carry) and then giving him the opportunity of easily plotting to avoid your weapon, or even quickly overcome it and you by surprise. Aside from that, do you feel anyone is too unfit to drive an automobile? Do you feel that we need no driver's licenses and anyone can drive on our highways the same as you or I? I'm just wondering ... and that's why I write. Thanks!

reviver | 12-02-2008 10:40 AM
Re: Proper CCW mindset articulated Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldmariner (Post 1442991) Carrying without a CCW when one is required is the most PROFOUNDLY stupid advice a person can give, or receive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon (Post 1443595) Question - Whatever happened to open carry ? Answer - After a few decades of police harassment the gun owner was convinced to carry those shameful weapons concealed and signing a permit to bare arms. Liberty is usually stolen by consent.
The truth of the FEDERAL FIREARMS ACT http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=290290

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:18 AM. |

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright = None use it and Link to GIM