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- - those little dots on the sites.. (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=448309)

Avalon | 02-15-2010 05:40 AM
those little dots on the sites.. Im still having a lot of trouble hitting anything with my 9 mm Jericho. I have no idea what the problem is. Three different men shot it at the range yesterday and were on target. I shot some of their larger caliber guns and didn't have any problems. I am shooting to the left and very low..That's when I even hit the target. :bear_cry: One of the field Rangers seems to think I was having trouble seeing the sites. They are tiny and all black. One of the guys had some type of green dots put on his sites. He said the gunsmith put them on but they didn't think I could get them for the Jericho. Why not? Also at one point they suggested I sit on the stool and shoot and that did improve things a great deal so I wonder if I am jerking at the recoil more then i think. The recoil on that gun really isnt bad so maybe its just the weight of the gun??? Im getting discouraged. Any suggestions.

kiwi_envoy | 02-15-2010 05:43 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Avalon, maybe you are flinching in anticipation of the recoil. Cock the gun and fire without a round in the chamber to see if you hold it steady at the point of pulling the trigger. Good luck.

SirCruz | 02-15-2010 05:49 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Do you feel comfortable seeing through the sights? It is possible that you are jerking a tad when squeezing the trigger. Maybe your trigger pull is a little stiff on your pistol causing you to pull the shot left, frequently. If the trigger is stiff and not sensitive it could cause some aiming complications. You are having to apply more pressure on the trigger causing the pistol to pull to the left. Practice, Practice, Practice.....Get comfortable with the trigger pull and the recoil and your aim should improve with more practice.

Glass | 02-15-2010 05:51 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. I second kiwi_envoys advice. Try dry firing and see how/if the front site moves. There is a target chart someone will post shortly that shows the target divided into sections, each section describes what it is the shooter is doing to result in the shots going into that section. This helps a lot. I won't go from memory of what it says but I can tell you I have the same problem. I also found that I was not using the pad of my index finger on the trigger but the 1st knuckle. When I get it right and use just the pad of my finger I find the bullet goes dead ahead. The reason is that the trigger is being pushed directly back toward me and not inducing any kind of twist into the firearm just before or as I am firing. The guns recoil is also directed straight upwards from the muzzle and not backwards as I find sometimes when I don't get it right. That upward motion of the muzzle feels smoother, more controlled and I can re-aquire the target quicker as well. Trigger smoothness also affects how the shooter puts it all together, if its nice and smooth it's all good. If the trigger kind of catches at somepoint through it's movement then the shooter is going to apply a bit more pressure to get past the catch or to break as they say. The trigger will smooth out some with use but a smith can speed up the process for you. I think for a defence gun that is not a priority. Unless the trigger is complete rubbish, which I would doubt on that level of handgun.

Avalon | 02-15-2010 05:54 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi_envoy (Post 2180454) Avalon, maybe you are flinching in anticipation of the recoil. Cock the gun and fire without a round in the chamber to see if you hold it steady at the point of pulling the trigger. Good luck.
I probably am flinching but I dont understand why. I was nailing the bulls eye with my 20 gauge mossberg shooting slugs yesterday. I also did well with the .40 and 45 calibers.. All of those had a lot of recoil. The reason I picked the Jericho was because i shot so well with my friends the day I tried it. Whats the difference? I think the sites a a part of the problem, [I suspect I need glasses] but now I am wondering if the weight of the gun is just too much. I have a hard getting through 10 rounds before my arm gets tired. Perhaps I need to head to the gym and pump some iron.

Avalon | 02-15-2010 06:00 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCruz (Post 2180456) Do you feel comfortable seeing through the sights? It is possible that you are jerking a tad when squeezing the trigger. Maybe your trigger pull is a little stiff on your pistol causing you to pull the shot left, frequently. If the trigger is stiff and not sensitive it could cause some aiming complications. You are having to apply more pressure on the trigger causing the pistol to pull to the left. Practice, Practice, Practice.....Get comfortable with the trigger pull and the recoil and your aim should improve with more practice.
the trigger seems fine. No one else has problems with it.. :confused_m: I think the sites are horrible. Someone called them battle sites??? [tiny and black] Ill try dry firing and see what happens. Generally when I have a problem like this I need to take time alone and work with the offending piece of machinery such as a computer, electronic device until I figure it out. I suspect the same with be true with this gun. Im going to have to do it at home in peace, quiet and daylight where I can check my target often..

kiwi_envoy | 02-15-2010 06:02 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 2180463) I probably am flinching but I dont understand why. I was nailing the bulls eye with my 20 gauge mossberg shooting slugs yesterday. I also did well with the .40 and 45 calibers.. All of those had a lot of recoil. The reason I picked the Jericho was because i shot so well with my friends the day I tried it. Whats the difference? I think the sites a a part of the problem, [I suspect I need glasses] but now I am wondering if the weight of the gun is just too much. I have a hard getting through 10 rounds before my arm gets tired. Perhaps I need to head to the gym and pump some iron.
100% on the arm strength. I was out shooting slugs through my shottie at the range the other day as well. Gee do those things leave a hole in the target. I was amazed at just how accurate they are even through my Boito 20" barrells. Good luck with it all. :emotions16:

Avalon | 02-15-2010 06:03 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. 1 Attachment(s) here it is..Im in the tightening fingers and jerking area. What does tightening fingers mean???

Avalon | 02-15-2010 06:05 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi_envoy (Post 2180465) 100% on the arm strength. I was out shooting slugs through my shot at the range the other day as well. Gee do those things leave a hole in the target. I was amazed at just how accurate they are even through my Boito 20" barrels. Good luck with it all. :emotions16:
yeah, the only comment the Instructor had after his attempt to help me with the Jericho failed was this "if you have an intruder you better shot him with the mossberg instead of the Jericho".

skyvike | 02-15-2010 06:23 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. One thing I do when I suspect a shooter is doing something funky when they pull the trigger is to either load a snap cap or other "inert" round in the middle of a magazine to see what happens when they REALLY expect the gun to fire. This can also be accomplished by loading the gun for the shooter and not charging it (i.e. no round in the chamber) but letting them think it's ready to fire. Not counting the rounds in the magazine can also work if you are alone. The point is to see what you're doing when you actually shoot. It's easy to do everything perfectly when you know it's a dry fire. Sometimes, when the shooter knows this might happen, it cure the problem all by itself. But the question is, why does it only happen with this pistol?

mick silver | 02-15-2010 07:03 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. they make a paint that you can put on your sights . it glows at night an help you see the sights better .... day or night

skyvike | 02-15-2010 07:31 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Quote:
Originally Posted by mick silver (Post 2180489) they make a paint that you can put on your sights . it glows at night an help you see the sights better .... day or night
Good point. Another really cheap way to see if the sight visibility is the problem is paint the front sight with white out (typing corretion fluid). It's not a permanent solution but an inexpensive test to see if it helps.... ;-)

dumbnbroke | 02-15-2010 09:06 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. low and left is a common problem. I've been told it is not so much a sight problem as a control problem in that I am trying to compensate for recoil by somewhat locking the wrist at the moment of fire. when I just let the gun recoil naturally (but not fly out of my hand..ha,ha) aim improves.

SilverCity | 02-15-2010 10:04 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Remember to lock your wrist, pull trigger slowly until it breaks clean, work up to speed. It helped my brother to shoot at clay pigeons against a dirt backstop...helps to give immediate feedback as to what he are doing wrong and was able to quickly correct it. Dry-fire practice will help. Your instructor was not very encouraging. Find another. I believe the Jericho can be fitted with custom higher-visibility sights of your choice. Find a good gunsmith. Good luck, SC

Squirrel Bait | 02-15-2010 11:01 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Avalon, what type of shooting are you doing. Slow paper punching, two, three rounds on the bounce. Low and to the left is characteristic of shot anticipation. Your reflexes are pushing the gun. If it was to the right that would typical of trigger pull. Remember, learning to shoot well takes some time. Learning how to relax while shooting is very important. You'll get there. sb

S_Goldberg | 02-15-2010 11:24 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Quote:
here it is..Im in the tightening fingers and jerking area. What does tightening fingers mean???
It means that when you apply pressure to the trigger, your whole hand is squeezing due to sympathetic muscle movement. You need to spend some time dry firing to break this habit. It is just a matter of practice. Remember to squeeze the trigger very slowly and deliberately. Do this while dry firing so that you can see how the gun is moving. You will also be able to to see when you have improved as the gun should not move at all when you squeeze the trigger. Just keep practicing and don't get discouraged.

gpond | 02-15-2010 11:39 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. I like what S_Goldberg said. I had the same problem when I started getting back into shooting. I fixed the problem with dry firing just as has been suggested here. From dry firing I discovered that it was better for me to conceptualize that my firing hand really was needing to do two things at once. First the non-trigger fingers and thumb have the job of keeping the gun just as still as possible (forming a shooting platform). Not as simple as it sounds, because the trigger finger has the job of slowly pulling back that trigger. It took some practice to focus on both those jobs at the same time, but by doing that I greatly improved and fixed the same problem you are having. Also, as someone said here, I needed to learn to not put a death-grip on the gun trying to stop/prevent the recoil. I needed to relax my hand a tad and let the gun do it's thing. These two things improved my shooting a lot. Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 2180757) It means that when you apply pressure to the trigger, your whole hand is squeezing due to sympathetic muscle movement. You need to spend some time dry firing to break this habit. It is just a matter of practice. Remember to squeeze the trigger very slowly and deliberately. Do this while dry firing so that you can see how the gun is moving. You will also be able to to see when you have improved as the gun should not move at all when you squeeze the trigger. Just keep practicing and don't get discouraged.

GoldBuyer123 | 02-15-2010 11:48 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Several suggestions. 1. Move closer to the target. Back off as you improve. 2. Dry fire practice. 3. Don't go to a range. Best practice is alone out in the desert/forest (shooting clay disks)

Mantokir | 02-15-2010 12:00 PM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 2180464) the trigger seems fine. No one else has problems with it.. :confused_m: I think the sites are horrible. Someone called them battle sites??? [tiny and black] Ill try dry firing and see what happens. Generally when I have a problem like this I need to take time alone and work with the offending piece of machinery such as a computer, electronic device until I figure it out. I suspect the same with be true with this gun. Im going to have to do it at home in peace, quiet and daylight where I can check my target often..
If you do the dry-firing thing, stick a dime on the barrel. If you can keep the dime on it, then you're good. :-) Battle sights are what I used on my M-16 in the military, a simple black front sight post with a ring for the rear sight. http://estore.websitepros.com/stores...UISSetHKBk.gif

wallew | 02-15-2010 12:11 PM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Everything here is spot on. I'll add a couple of things no one has mentioned. BREATHING CONTROL. Very important that you monitor your breathing while shooting a firearm you are having problems with. Basically you are in a slow rythmic breathing pattern. Before you shoot, you hold your breath - NO, NOT A HUGE INTAKE - just hold it for a few seconds before you shoot. Then slowly release your breath and while doing that, STROKE the trigger. Don't pull. Don't jerk. Almost like a caress. Rub it with your trigger finger. Unless you are shooting it above a 8+ lb break point, you hit what you are aiming at. Second is you can paint the front sight with fingernail polish. It will last MUCH longer than whiteout, which doesn't hold up well to weather (ask me WHY I know this). Plus, when you are ready to remove it, a small dab of fingernail polish remover will resolve the issue. OR use nite sights by Meprolight : http://www.opticsplanet.net/meprolig...o-pistols.html It LOOKS like the sights that fit your Jericho are similar (if not the same) to the Sig pistol sights. If this is the case, you can add TRIJICON to the night sights to your Jericho. Here's a link about the Jericho... http://www.charlesdalyforum.com/showthread.php?t=469 And here is the website for IWI (formerly IMI)... http://www.israel-weapon.com/default...3-69A1E711F583} It appears you SHOULD be able to pick up the nite sights you desire. Hope that helps.

S_Goldberg | 02-15-2010 03:46 PM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldBuyer123 (Post 2180787) Several suggestions. 1. Move closer to the target. Back off as you improve. 2. Dry fire practice. 3. Don't go to a range. Best practice is alone out in the desert/forest (shooting clay disks)
Exactly. Since you are missing the target, start by shooting with only 10 feet or so between you and the target. Use a target like the one below with small circles maybe 2 or 3 inches in diameter. Standing about 10 feet away, aim the gun and fire two shots. At that distance, if you are shooting well your 2 shots should pretty much be in the same hole. It will make identifying your mistakes much easier. http://www.letargets.com/images/vb-24.jpg I would recommend you spend a lot of time dry firing to break your bad habits before you hit the range again. As always, make sure you double and triple check your weapons status before you go pulling the trigger when you begin a dry firing session.

<SLV> | 02-15-2010 04:01 PM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Are you shooting right-handed? If you, your "seven-o-clocking" might be caused by incorrect trigger posture. Be sure you are using the portion of your finger directly behind the fingernail when you squeeze (not pull) the trigger. Most people instinctively put their first knuckle over the trigger. This will cause you to flex your primary finger joint and therefore turn the barrel down and to the left. When you squeeze the trigger only the middle finger joint should bend. I am not familiar with the Jericho 9mm, but I'd assume it has a soft trigger reset. When you shoot you should "follow through" - hold the trigger to the back while keeping your eyes on the target to examine the point of impact. Then slowly release the trigger until you feel a single click (usually halfway back out). At this point you may fire the gun again with much less trigger pull than with the trigger fully extended. I hope these suggestions help you become deadly accurate!

Absintheur | 02-15-2010 04:56 PM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. If Novac can put fiber optic sights on my CZ 52 I am sure they can put them on your gun. I would also recommend you do some ball and dummy exercises. Have someone else load your mags with mixed live and dummy rounds. If the sights move more than just slightly when it goes click you are flinching.

Kregener | 02-15-2010 05:01 PM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Quote:
I have a hard getting through 10 rounds before my arm gets tired.
Really? You need to build up some strength, it can only improve your aim.

Juandisimo | 02-15-2010 09:37 PM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. I have a baby glock that I always shoot low and to the left with when I dont pay attention to what I am doing, for this very reason. correct it early, my buddy who is a weapons intsructor in the army says, Practice does not make perfect, Practice makes PERMANENT. Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2181181) Are you shooting right-handed? If you, your "seven-o-clocking" might be caused by incorrect trigger posture. Be sure you are using the portion of your finger directly behind the fingernail when you squeeze (not pull) the trigger. Most people instinctively put their first knuckle over the trigger. This will cause you to flex your primary finger joint and therefore turn the barrel down and to the left. When you squeeze the trigger only the middle finger joint should bend. I am not familiar with the Jericho 9mm, but I'd assume it has a soft trigger reset. When you shoot you should "follow through" - hold the trigger to the back while keeping your eyes on the target to examine the point of impact. Then slowly release the trigger until you feel a single click (usually halfway back out). At this point you may fire the gun again with much less trigger pull than with the trigger fully extended. I hope these suggestions help you become deadly accurate!

Avalon | 02-16-2010 07:35 AM
Re: those little dots on the sites.. Lots of good suggestions here, thank you all. I read them all and they seem to be somewhat in agreement as to what is going on..I will check into the sites for the Jericho, [thanks for that link ]... I think the sites are a part of the problem as well as arm strength.. Im going to set up a place to shot at home so I can check the target frequently and move it in close as suggested. Its hard to keep check on the target when the range only goes cold every 20 minutes and I cant see what I shot.. Ill let you guys know how it goes.. I do need to get it corrected quickly because it really discouraged me..

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