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- - Why buy guns now? (no ammo) (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=374276)

optimestic1 | 05-11-2009 02:09 PM
Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Record numbers of guns are being bought by people right now, which I find a bit odd in light of the fact that it's so hard to get any ammo for them. I can just imagine a first time gun buyer bringing home his first new gun only to realize that it isn't any good without ammo. Then he goes to all the stores looking to buy some, only to go back home empty handed. When gasoline cost over $4 a gallon, car sales plummeted. When ammo costs area at record highs, and can hardly be found, gun sales are through the roof! I don't understand it. As for me, I'd like to get a Subcompact XD9, but I find it hard to justify buying it at a time when I can't even find ammo to shoot through it.

sand86 | 05-11-2009 02:20 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) I can only guess that some people stocked up on ammo early on, and are now buying firearms as they become more available. That is what I would have done.

C&L 1911 | 05-11-2009 02:20 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Car sales plummeted because no one was afraid of cars getting permanently banned overnight with a stoke of a pen of the guy in charge. Also, ammo can still be found, albeit at a premium. However, many of these new gun buyers think they can just buy one box of the hollow points (even if they have to pay $20 for it) and it will last them a lifetime; after all, if a bad guy breaks into their house, they will only need one round to bust his kneecap, so box of 50 rounds goes a long way. Not many people who buy guns actually practice with them regularly, and many never do; just having a gun nearby makes them feel safe, even if they have no clue how to use it.

optimestic1 | 05-11-2009 02:27 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by C&L 1911 (Post 1717968) Car sales plummeted because no one was afraid of cars getting permanently banned overnight with a stoke of a pen of the guy in charge. Also, ammo can still be found, albeit at a premium. However, many of these new gun buyers think they can just buy one box of the hollow points (even if they have to pay $20 for it) and it will last them a lifetime; after all, if a bad guy breaks into their house, they will only need one round to bust his kneecap, so box of 50 rounds goes a long way. Not many people who buy guns actually practice with them regularly, and many never do; just having a gun nearby makes them feel safe, even if they have no clue how to use it.
I hate to say it, but that almost sounds like me! I don't do much shooting anymore. I might fire off about 5 or 10 rounds a year just to stay familiar with whatever gun I have out for defense. I have a moderate supply of ammo, and am afraid to use much of it. It seems that once it's gone, it's gone for good!

C&L 1911 | 05-11-2009 02:35 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by optimestic1 (Post 1717975) I hate to say it, but that almost sounds like me! I don't do much shooting anymore. I might fire off about 5 or 10 rounds a year just to stay familiar with whatever gun I have out for defense. I have a moderate supply of ammo, and am afraid to use much of it. It seems that once it's gone, it's gone for good!
At least you shoot some, so you're still keeping your skills "current". I know many shooters have cut back on the amount of shooting they do, and many of them have pretty deep stashes. It's especially true for more expensive and currently-hard-to-get calibers such as 5.56. Many are buying .22 conversion kits for their guns and shoot those instead; you can still get some relatively cheap and quality practice with .22.

SilverCity | 05-11-2009 02:41 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) People who are buying guns now (and paying high prices) are probably thinking guns will be banned first and they can always buy ammo later...then they look around for the ammo.:no_ma: I have been telling my shooter friends for the past 3 years to STOP buying guns and start buying PLENTY of ammunition for any firearms they currently own or plan to own in the future. Some acted when they saw prices begin to rise...but others said, "Gee, prices are higher now, so I'll wait until they come back down."

Twisted Avatar | 05-11-2009 02:44 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) You buy all three (guns mags and ammo) as your budget allows and keep adding to it as best you can. Guns are like Gold and Silver They will never be worth zero.

Fullpower | 05-11-2009 02:45 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) US citizens are buying over a billion rounds of small arms ammunition PER MONTH.... and you say you "Dont understand it" ??? what is to understand? You want a snap shot of a culture? watch what they spend their money on. Follow the money.

Twisted Avatar | 05-11-2009 02:47 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1717997) People who are buying guns now (and paying high prices) are probably thinking guns will be banned first and they can always buy ammo later... I have been telling my shooter friends for the past 3 years to STOP buying guns and start buying PLENTY of ammunition for any firearms they currently own or plan to own in the future.
This is very true. If worse came to worse you can MAKE a zip gun or some primative type of side arm But if you dont have ammo ........You are in a HEAP of trouble.

meatman | 05-11-2009 02:49 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) there is more ammo out there now then I have seen in months

SilverCity | 05-11-2009 02:50 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Yes, I think ammo might become more available again, but at what prices and for how long? The market usually determines the price of most anything, but how relevant will the firearm/ammunition market be if things begin to deteriorate further and panic buying continues or even increases? Ammo may be the new underground currency...

Twisted Avatar | 05-11-2009 02:54 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by meatman (Post 1718010) there is more ammo out there now then I have seen in months
Not everyone can buy like you MM as I remeber you had a very particular way of making sure you got the lion share of the good stuff I think you bought out ammo man out of a particular caliber or was it weiders or J&G or sportmans?? (I forget) Any how you are in a class by yourself when it comes to aqusition. Hmmph!! T

The Argent Dragon | 05-11-2009 02:56 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Well, I can't shoot all my guns at once, yet I still want more.......perhaps it's the 'VARIETY' that lures me in. :bear_happy: I like to take different guns with me on each shootout. :wink: +Plus, there's nothing better than looking a a line-up of a dozen or so pistols on a table and rifles on the wall !!! :bear_thumb: http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...gv7/rifles.jpg

meatman | 05-11-2009 03:04 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1718020) Not everyone can buy like you MM as I remeber you had a very particular way of making sure you got the lion share of the good stuff I think you bought out ammo man out of a particular caliber or was it weiders or J&G or sportmans?? (I forget) Any how you are in a class by yourself when it comes to aqusition. Hmmph!! T
1st of all you have 21,000 post, and this forum does not sell ammo do I really need to say more.:banana:

meatman | 05-11-2009 03:06 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 1718022) Well, I can't shoot all my guns at once, yet I still want more.......perhaps it's the 'VARIETY' that lures me in. :bear_happy: I like to take different guns with me on each shootout. :wink: +Plus, there's nothing better than looking a a line-up of a dozen or so pistols on a table and rifles on the wall !!! :bear_thumb: http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...gv7/rifles.jpg
I just got a boner and there are no women around :565:

goldgun | 05-11-2009 03:07 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 1718022) Well, I can't shoot all my guns at once, yet I still want more.......perhaps it's the 'VARIETY' that lures me in. :bear_happy: I like to take different guns with me on each shootout. :wink: +Plus, there's nothing better than looking a a line-up of a dozen or so pistols on a table and rifles on the wall !!! :bear_thumb: http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/l...gv7/rifles.jpg
That is a beautiful M40A1 with the cloned Unertl. At least I think it is the USO I can't tell from the picture.

CrufflerJJ | 05-11-2009 03:14 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 1718022) Well, I can't shoot all my guns at once, yet I still want more.......perhaps it's the 'VARIETY' that lures me in. :bear_happy: I like to take different guns with me on each shootout. :wink:
Nice assortment - are they yours? Top to bottom...FAMAS, VZ52, CAR15, Rem700 (??Win70??), Romak or Dragunov, ???AK (not sure - sights look odd), AK folding stock. Looks like a fun bunch of rifles!

simpleworld | 05-11-2009 03:38 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Second from bottom looks like a Galil....

SilverCity | 05-11-2009 04:31 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Finnish Valmet M76...

tulsamal | 05-11-2009 04:33 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
no one was afraid of cars getting permanently banned overnight with a stoke of a pen of the guy in charge.
Calm. Stay calm! Obama can no more "ban" my guns "with a stroke of his pen" then he can pass any other law. There is a multi-step process and the President's signature is the last step. I haven't even seen a first step yet. And things that stand no chance of passing like HR45 aren't a first step! The media likes to take shortcuts. They like to point out that the Democrats have 60 votes in the Senate now. But they totally ignore the fact that those 60 Democrats don't vote in lock step. They are from different parts of the country. At least at this time, the Democrats still don't have the votes to pass another AWB. Of course that could change if we don't stay involved but they just don't have the votes right now. Or the political will to take the inevitable political backlash. Gregg

CrufflerJJ | 05-11-2009 05:55 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1718176) Finnish Valmet M76...
Valmet....OH MY!!!:36_3_16:

renegade_01 | 05-11-2009 06:02 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) any of you ever seen the video of the guy sneaking into Afghanistan to show the arms markets down there? There were basically shops with machining and tooling to create any component you would need to service 1911 pistols and Ak47s... There was one shot where lil kids were sorting thru spent steel AK casings...and prepping them for reloads, smelting lead and so forth. I'm not worried about ammo. We can MAKE ammo from raw materials is need be. Start building your library folks!

CQC McDuck | 05-11-2009 06:09 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) There's still plenty of low cost ammo that exists outside of the USA. If our civilian ammo supply ever dries up due to prohibition or excessive taxation, I'm sure some enterprising individual(s) will come along and attempt to satisfy the needs and wants of the marketplace...:s1:

sirgonzo420 | 05-11-2009 06:16 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by renegade_01 (Post 1718288) any of you ever seen the video of the guy sneaking into Afghanistan to show the arms markets down there? There were basically shops with machining and tooling to create any component you would need to service 1911 pistols and Ak47s... There was one shot where lil kids were sorting thru spent steel AK casings...and prepping them for reloads, smelting lead and so forth. I'm not worried about ammo. We can MAKE ammo from raw materials is need be. Start building your library folks!
You Tube
You Tube

Fullpower | 05-11-2009 06:18 PM
BUY GUNS NOW (and ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by optimestic1 (Post 1717947) As for me, I'd like to get a Subcompact XD9, but I find it hard to justify buying it at a time when I can't even find ammo to shoot through it.
. . Referring back to your original post, you say it is "hard to justify" the purchase of a 9mm handgun..... Are you trying to imply that you cannot find a single box of 9mm luger ammunition for sale? I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU. I defy you to find a single US city in which the most common pistol caliber in the world cannot be found. There are 50,000 mom n pop hardware stores, gunshops, general stores, even gas stations and bait shops where a box of your favorite pistol ammo can be had. Perhaps you are confused, and think that Walmart is out of 9mm, so then rest of the world must be out too? Winchester is running 3 shifts, assembling small arms ammunition for domestic civilian market 24 hours per day, 7 days a week. Get your cash out of your pocket, go shopping, you will FIND what you need.

UncaScrooge | 05-11-2009 06:34 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by sirgonzo420 (Post 1718300) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HujjuvPiUj4
I just LOVE the long video version you referenced... true to life! Can't get enough of reality! :applause_

sirgonzo420 | 05-11-2009 06:41 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by UncaScrooge (Post 1718321) I just LOVE the long video version you referenced... true to life! Can't get enough of reality! :applause_
Here's another one in Baghdad: LiveLeak
LiveLeak

UncaScrooge | 05-11-2009 06:52 PM
Re: HEY sirgonzo!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by sirgonzo420 (Post 1718329) Here's another one in Baghdad: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=201adb5c31
Thanks for the Bagdad clip! Now, let's see this happening in the good ole USA! Let all citizens be able to defend themselves! :)

sirgonzo420 | 05-11-2009 06:55 PM
Re: HEY sirgonzo!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by UncaScrooge (Post 1718337) Thanks for the Bagdad clip! Now, let's see this happening in the good ole USA! Let all citizens be able to defend themselves! :)
LOL.... there they have black markets. Here we have gunshows! I hope we can manage at least as good as they do when the gunshows stop... .

FireMattMillen | 05-11-2009 07:10 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) My dad got a new Walther PPS .40 about six weeks ago - he has only been able to take it to the range ONCE because the only ammo he can find is expensive self-defense ammo for 80 cents per round.

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ShinyThings | 05-11-2009 07:38 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsamal (Post 1718178) Calm. Stay calm! Obama can no more "ban" my guns "with a stroke of his pen" then he can pass any other law. There is a multi-step process and the President's signature is the last step. I haven't even seen a first step yet. And things that stand no chance of passing like HR45 aren't a first step! The media likes to take shortcuts. They like to point out that the Democrats have 60 votes in the Senate now. But they totally ignore the fact that those 60 Democrats don't vote in lock step. They are from different parts of the country. At least at this time, the Democrats still don't have the votes to pass another AWB. Of course that could change if we don't stay involved but they just don't have the votes right now. Or the political will to take the inevitable political backlash.
Ever heard of "executive order"? Just google "Executive order 6102", and see what you come up with. And this is only one example. These orders do NOT go through Congress. No votes are needed. ST

Ag_man | 05-11-2009 07:47 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by meatman (Post 1718039) I just got a boner and there are no women around :565:
You're a braver man than me for making that comment! :9536: :biggrin:

phideaux | 05-11-2009 07:50 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) http://www.mtv.com/content/mobile/vi...nd/140x105.jpg "Huheheheheh, he said "Boner"":111:

Twisted Avatar | 05-11-2009 08:11 PM
Re: HEY sirgonzo!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by sirgonzo420 (Post 1718345) LOL.... there they have black markets. Here we have gunshows! I hope we can manage at least as good as they do when the gunshows stop... .
Sure we will ............... in nature there can NEVER be a vacuum.

CrufflerJJ | 05-11-2009 08:21 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by FireMattMillen (Post 1718370) My dad got a new Walther PPS .40 about six weeks ago - he has only been able to take it to the range ONCE because the only ammo he can find is expensive self-defense ammo for 80 cents per round.
No, he probably found regularly priced "premium" defensive ammo at that price. For the expensive stuff, he needs to check out Glaser or MagSafe pistol ammo at about $2.50/round. Try verifying a carry weapon's reliability with that stuff! It only takes 200+ rounds, you know. A mere $500 or thereabouts in ammo costs alone. Needless to say, I don't carry Glaser in my CCW pistol. Of course, there was that one time about 20 years ago when I had a :thumb.aspx:stupidity-induced:thumb.aspx: discharge of a .357 Glaser Blue into my living room ceiling. It didn't punch through the roof, but did make my ears ring for a while.:thumb.aspx:

goldgun | 05-11-2009 08:40 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) because it pisses off the collectivist. :565:

Peter Robbins | 05-11-2009 11:36 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Even at todays prices, I still think that funs and ammun are decent long term investments. You cant tell me that if you bought a dozen high capacity, "assault" style weapons, that in 15 years (maybe sooner) they wont at least keep up with inflation. Hell, they may be priceless. Im not ashamed to say that I have a 6 month old, new in the box, never fired stag 556. Paid 999.99 at the time. Last week went in to the same fun store and saw the EXACT model listed for 1149.99. I see 9$ a box 9mm, thats a decent price, but I bet it wont last. The bubble may burst, but politics (taxes, bans, inflation, etc) will keep the prices going up. There is nothing wrong with having a lifetimes supply of something that will never go bad. That and Im happy to have something usefull to trade my USD for right now. I think its Ruprick who says that metal = money. For me, funs and lead are a good way to save/ store my metal. OP, just buy the ammo first. Then after you have spent lots of time and energy tracking down a decent amount, reward yourself with the XD.

bfnelson | 05-12-2009 12:02 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Because they're cheaper when you can't get the ammo. I'm seeing AR-15s well under 1000 now, you can actually find an AK at classic arms now. You have to get beyond the herd/panic mentality of thinking with your emotions. As a rule, buy what others are not buying. Everyone is buying ammo at insane prices now so I stay out and look for deals on a gun nobody wants because they can't afford the ammo. Then when the madness ends you can buy the ammo everyone dumps back on the market to make their house payment. Most of the ammo bought in the past year will never be fired and the holders have weak hands.

mick silver | 05-12-2009 12:55 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) well in the last few week i have added 3000 rounds of 9mm , tomorrow i am off to my farm , going to break in two new 9mm , i well take 300 rounds an run though them , i found a guy in town who reloads any thing i want an a great price on top of that 150 bucks per 1000 rounds of 9mm , also 44 15 bucks for 50 round , next week i well load up on 223 an some 7mm an some stuff to feed my ak47 , i really don't need any but at that price i have lots to play with now . ammo out there you just have to look harder now

Unclad Lad | 05-13-2009 09:32 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) This is why I won't buy one of those plastic guns--it might not survive the wallop I "tactically" apply to someone's jaw or cranium! :banana: I agree with meatman, ammo stocks seem to be slowly replenishing, although I expect it to be short-lived, since much of what is coming out of factories now has already been sold, and are part of the world's biggest backorder. Where I'm still experiencing the pinch in in reloading equipment. Certain dies are non-existent. Primers are available only through auction sites for two to eight times they were last year. Finding powder is pure luck. The only thing I can find easily is brass, which figures, because I have some to sell and can't unload...

UncaScrooge | 05-13-2009 09:55 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 1721738) This is why I won't buy one of those plastic guns--it might not survive the wallop I "tactically" apply to someone's jaw or cranium! :banana: Where I'm still experiencing the pinch in in reloading equipment. Certain dies are non-existent. Primers are available only through auction sites for two to eight times they were last year. Finding powder is pure luck. The only thing I can find easily is brass, which figures, because I have some to sell and can't unload...
Get out of the big city, and cruise the local highways and biways... some of the "local" boondock general stores still have primers and powder at the old prices... simply because "time"" hasn't caught up with them yet. But.... WARNING... the time is short to take advantage of them@ :emotions16:

optimestic1 | 05-14-2009 02:54 PM
Re: BUY GUNS NOW (and ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 1718301) . . Referring back to your original post, you say it is "hard to justify" the purchase of a 9mm handgun..... Are you trying to imply that you cannot find a single box of 9mm luger ammunition for sale? I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU. I defy you to find a single US city in which the most common pistol caliber in the world cannot be found. There are 50,000 mom n pop hardware stores, gunshops, general stores, even gas stations and bait shops where a box of your favorite pistol ammo can be had. Perhaps you are confused, and think that Walmart is out of 9mm, so then rest of the world must be out too? Winchester is running 3 shifts, assembling small arms ammunition for domestic civilian market 24 hours per day, 7 days a week. Get your cash out of your pocket, go shopping, you will FIND what you need.
Actually, Walmart and Scheels are both out of ALL handgun ammo (including all .22LR). Sure, places like Gander Mtn. with their crazy prices still have it, but it seems that most people don't think it's worth it, so they aren't buying it.

optimestic1 | 05-14-2009 02:56 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 1718003) US citizens are buying over a billion rounds of small arms ammunition PER MONTH.... and you say you "Dont understand it" ??? what is to understand? You want a snap shot of a culture? watch what they spend their money on. Follow the money.
No. I said I don't understand why people are buying record numbers of GUNS right now when ammo is hardly available for them. In some places, the ammo is simply gone.

gbgunner | 05-14-2009 03:43 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) I'd say at this point it's smarter to be buying ammunition right now. There's clearly a shortage that won't let up for the foreseeable future. Plus I think there's folks out there with multiple guns that they don't have enough or any ammo for. As times get tougher economically, people are going to have to sell things to make ends meet. That's when people with too many guns will try to trade/sell some of them. There'll be guns for sale in the future. They don't get used up like ammo does.

Twisted Avatar | 05-14-2009 06:25 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Robbins (Post 1718761) Even at todays prices, I still think that funs and ammun are decent long term investments. You cant tell me that if you bought a dozen high capacity, "assault" style weapons, that in 15 years (maybe sooner) they wont at least keep up with inflation. Hell, they may be priceless. Im not ashamed to say that I have a 6 month old, new in the box, never fired stag 556. Paid 999.99 at the time. Last week went in to the same fun store and saw the EXACT model listed for 1149.99. I see 9$ a box 9mm, thats a decent price, but I bet it wont last. The bubble may burst, but politics (taxes, bans, inflation, etc) will keep the prices going up. There is nothing wrong with having a lifetimes supply of something that will never go bad. That and Im happy to have something usefull to trade my USD for right now. I think its Ruprick who says that metal = money. For me, funs and lead are a good way to save/ store my metal. OP, just buy the ammo first. Then after you have spent lots of time and energy tracking down a decent amount, reward yourself with the XD.
:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

Unclad Lad | 05-16-2009 07:07 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Get out of the big city, and cruise the local highways and biways... some of the "local" boondock general stores still have primers and powder at the old prices... simply because "time"" hasn't caught up with them yet.
I've been to the boonies--places with no access during winter--and the the only primers anyone has are shotshell or 209 in-line caps. But here's another reason they are impossible to find: Because when we find something that might be useful, we buy it, because even if we're likely to never use it, we know it's scarce and might not be able to find it later, should we really, really need it. Stupid panic buying.

Twisted Avatar | 05-16-2009 07:10 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Rule Number one: DONT PANIC Rule Number two: IF YOU DO PANIC MAKE SURE YOU ARE FIRST. T

markt | 05-16-2009 10:29 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) I have about 4500 rounds of .22LR Velocitor, 3000 rounds of .22LR MiniMax, and 100 factory rounds of .454 Casull magnum. However I also have 1000 virgin brass cases of .454 Casull magnum, 200 used cases for target shooting, 12,500 lead bullets, 12,500 primers, and 18 Lbs of powder for the above in reserve (I reload). I wonder if I should get more brass. If I loaded it all up I'd have 1300 rounds of .454 Casull magnum on hand. Since I can get at least a dozen reloads from each case then I should have enough to last for 12,500 rounds. But I'm limited to 1300 at a time. Should I get more brass (30 cents each) to keep more loaded ammo on hand? Time is short and I really should be beefing up my other preps.

SilverCity | 05-16-2009 11:27 PM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by markt (Post 1726005) I have about 4500 rounds of .22LR Velocitor, 3000 rounds of .22LR MiniMax, and 100 factory rounds of .454 Casull magnum. However I also have 1000 virgin brass cases of .454 Casull magnum, 200 used cases for target shooting, 12,500 lead bullets, 12,500 primers, and 18 Lbs of powder for the above in reserve (I reload). I wonder if I should get more brass. If I loaded it all up I'd have 1300 rounds of .454 Casull magnum on hand. Since I can get at least a dozen reloads from each case then I should have enough to last for 12,500 rounds. But I'm limited to 1300 at a time. Should I get more brass (30 cents each) to keep more loaded ammo on hand? Time is short and I really should be beefing up my other preps.
Do you really plan on shooting 12,500 rounds 454 Casull? At what? Elephants or zombies? You might acquire some 45 Colt brass and load some more practical defensive rounds to shoot through your revolver. Do you have any other weapons? If you think time is short and you really should be beefing up your other preps, you have answered your own question.

morganchaser | 05-17-2009 12:32 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) I just bought 2 new handguns and went to the range. I wanted to get familiar with the CZ-82 and test various ammo on it. I did a statistically significant: 5 rounds of wolf(last round stove piped-> :rant: Unless it turns out to out-perform bear on a larger trial.-> Bear is just as cheap... Panic buying=loose QC? Hope everyone is function testing their inventory as it comes in. Just cause it used to be good doesn't mean they aren't cutting corners for the brave new world.) 10 rounds of brown bear FMJ 10 rounds of silver bear FMJ 15 rounds of silver bear JHP(more concerned about this as it will be my CC loading if goes according to plan) Why so few: Only had 1 box of each due to financial constraints and wanted to save the rest for something more serious than a basic function test/fun.(didn't want to stock up until I knew what worked) Was not impressed with the velocity of either the 9mm Makarov or the 7.62x38R. Was shooting at a rocky ground backstop, and the bullets were bouncing off intact! Not 7.62x25 by any means.

SilverCity | 05-17-2009 12:45 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) The Russian pistol ammo may not be the culprit. The pistol may need a little more break-in time or you may be limp-wristing a bit...try a different mag or two or try better quality brass-cased ammo. Quality brass-cased 380 ammo is ridiculously priced these days due to poor availability. Seems US manufacturers load on the same machines they use for 9mm, which is in much higher demand. Until that demand is met, and ammo makers once again start to produce it, good .380 will continue to be scarce. BTW, I don't recommend it for much more than a minimal concealment pistol anyway, nor do I recommend any steel-cased ammo for anything other than practice. Good luck. SC

morganchaser | 05-17-2009 01:15 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Apologies to SilverCity. This post was preachy/based on bad assumptions, and based on new information->know it to be preaching to the choir/experienced. In summary of original: AK-74, saiga-12, 22LR, machine tools->good

Dawg | 05-17-2009 01:34 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by morganchaser (Post 1726136) Even function testing and practice aside, that is a lot of ammo for a uncommon caliber(unless you live in animal attack country like Alaska/Canada along with gun toting peers) if you don't have a 12 gauge/AK-74,(7.62x39 ammo shortage) and ammo to match. I would also put a higher priority on .22LR since it's the most practical , cheapest, most SHTF spendable, non-reloadable, and you already have a gun for it. 12 gauge would be my other priority. Think of the buckshot shells as $20 bills when you're buying it for less than that, and think of the bird and target shot as $10 bills when you're buying less than that. Get both defensive loads(00-#4) and food loads(#4-8) If you don't have a scary black rifle, you've missed the boat at the foresight rate. Get the Ak-74 from classicarms even if you have to pay an arm an a leg for it. If you have the money get the saiga 12+mags in the same order. Now isn't the time to be stockpiling beyond what you aren't willing to go without(the investment merits are dubious since the volatility could take out the floor, and the fear is already priced in. Nothing is going up anymore unless the bans start.) (You aren't willing to go without: a black rifle, a hunting rifle, a combat shotgun, a CCW piece, and enough ammo to function test, practice, sight in, and where practical: invest) IMHO people with money to burn should invest in tools and get a small machine shop available to them. It will make them more adaptable when SHTF and is a good way to save money.(<-take's way longer than normal 6 month cycle to pay for itself unless doing work for others or if you have lots of ideas) On that note I wrote the following shopping list: A milling machine and a lathe available for the post-SHTF law breaking.(this isn't a huge hurry because you can accumulate slowly including while the SHTF) A similarly political leaning close friend of a machinist will suffice. Otherwise: Harbor Freight sells a "3 in 1 combination machine" which is a lathe and a mill. If you don't have anything better, and can't afford anything better, get it. Otherwise: learn how to identify a distorted lathe bed from out of level, identify a worn spindle bearing, and find yourself a used machine with nice undamaged "ways" that was used on soft materials. The bare essentials of a machine shop:a shop press, full set of HSS drill bits, a lathe, endmills, boring bars, a drill press, a kurt vise/precision vise, parallels, a clamping kit, a bench grinder, a wheel dresser, a cutter sharpening grinder with cupped wheels that can do carbide, a bandsaw/recipricating hacksaw, metal stock(used weights from second hand sporting goods for iron), Lathe HSS blanks, a rotary table, a set of files, dial calipers, micrometer set, tape measure, a 4 jaw chuck, an indexing head for the rotary table, dial indicator, dial test indicator, magnetic bases for both, a 3rd axis for the lathe/(or a milling machine) keyway cutters, slotting tools, a live center, telescoping snap gauges, ball snap gauges, adjustable parallels, height gauge, surface place(small one is fine) I think that'll get you started. Get a couple years worth of consumables(end mills, boring bars, HSS blanks, and drill bits.) Invest in carbide inserts if you want. Those things are gonna get valuable as all the manufacturing comes home from China. Great opportunity from debased USD=cheap labor+good infrastructure->manufacturing hub of world.
My company is closing and the owner told me to get a truck and take whatever I want. There are two Bridgeports sitting there. They are old, but were used primarilly for milling aluminum. One of the two has the digital display. There are endmills galore, plus associated goodies, free for the taking. I just don't have a place for them. I took the lathe in the dead of night by way of selling it to a tooling guy I ran across for 400 bucks. I split it with the owner. Sad times over there.

ruprick | 05-17-2009 01:54 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1726147) My company is closing and the owner told me to get a truck and take whatever I want. There are two Bridgeports sitting there. They are old, but were used primarilly for milling aluminum. One of the two has the digital display. There are endmills galore, plus associated goodies, free for the taking. I just don't have a place for them. I took the lathe in the dead of night by way of selling it to a tooling guy I ran across for 400 bucks. I split it with the owner. Sad times over there.
Get a storage unit and rat hole that shit away! That is useful, tangible goods...and the price is free toi you right now..... I've been packing away the tools, machines, welders, supplies.....all useful through life and esp in SHTF....and been building the skills for the past 20 years......whatever it takes.....just don't be another useless mouth to feed. Don't be short sighted....load up for the future....even if you never use it and just trade it....

morganchaser | 05-17-2009 02:15 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1726114) The Russian pistol ammo may not be the culprit. The pistol may need a little more break-in time or you may be limp-wristing a bit...try a different mag or two or try better quality brass-cased ammo. Quality brass-cased 380 ammo is ridiculously priced these days due to poor availability. Seems US manufacturers load on the same machines they use for 9mm, which is in much higher demand. Until that demand is met, and ammo makers once again start to produce it, good .380 will continue to be scarce. BTW, I don't recommend it for much more than a minimal concealment pistol anyway, nor do I recommend any steel-cased ammo for anything other than practice. Good luck. SC
Good points. You talked me in to paying a little bit more for this stuff: http://www.impactguns.com/store/090255910025.html (hornady 9x18 JHP) I believe in "practice with what you plan to use" so I'm curious on if you think that's a waste of money vs. a similar performing cheaper cartridge. Should I be thinking of ammo on more of a 1 dimensional approach and intentionally practice with inferior ammo to hone FTF drills/ect.?(provided I shoot enough of the good stuff to be sure it's reliable?) I could shoot the "stale" rounds from the magazine every time I go shooting...

Dawg | 05-17-2009 02:24 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1726158) Get a storage unit and rat hole that shit away! That is useful, tangible goods...and the price is free toi you right now..... I've been packing away the tools, machines, welders, supplies.....all useful through life and esp in SHTF....and been building the skills for the past 20 years......whatever it takes.....just don't be another useless mouth to feed. Don't be short sighted....load up for the future....even if you never use it and just trade it....
Hard to respond to your logic, but try to understand that I am unemployed and with machinery going for pennies on the dollar, and not having the skills to use them, I don't think it would be wise to go to the trouble to rent a truck with a lift gate, and incurr the expense of leasing a storage unit at this time. I have enough preps and other normal shit that I will have to contend with moving in the next year. There are like 3 really nice cut off wheels there too. They have the magnetic tables. I may snag those. My family has a close friend that had his own tool and die making business for over 30 years. He closed up 2 months ago. All his equipment was auctioned off for next to nothing. He was lucky enough to get a job in a tool shop in another state. I already helped myself to a couple of desktop computers and a couple of brand new in the box HP 1020 laserjet printers, with a couple of extra new toner cartridges, a laptop with docking station and a 22 inch widescreen monitor. A Magnesium handtruck, a 12,000 btu air conditioner (the type that is on wheels with the hose that goes out the window), a Fiberglass and aluminum 24 foot extension ladder, 2 brand new 48 inch Rigid pipe wrenches (they are like 200 bucks a piece, and I don't know what I will do with those) 20 five gallon cans of blacktop sealer. I was making silicone rubber pads for their Tampo Pad Transfer Printing operation for over 12 years. My own process that I designed and formulated. I am tempted to take all my equipment and materials and start making them from my home. I would have to market them, and the competition is stiff. That is a hard area to break into. Then the cost to me for EDM'd molds for casting the pads would be a major investment. Without the companies dollars to support the operation, I would probably be wasting valuable time and resources. Pad Printing is a dying trade it seems these days in the USA because of China.

ruprick | 05-17-2009 02:32 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) All shooting is good shooting - provided you strive to learn and not just spray lead down range. In about 6 months I went from good/very good to competing for state championships......all shooting a single shot air pistol in my home.....this training all translated over to slow, times and rapid fire in 22LR, Center-fire nad 45 ACP NRA Conventional Pistol "Bullseye". When you get good at slow fire ....all the rest follows.....it is all based off of slow precision fire..... Shoot every day for 1 hour in you yards/basement with an air pistol...read and study the art and science of pistol shooting....you get very good in a few months and perhaps world class in a few years. I know this first hand.....so forget the train with what you will use idea....it all carries over at some point.....you train with a simple 22LR DAO pocket pistol ....your DAO 380 will shoot just the same..... All training is good....more training is better. The key is to just shoot anything.

Unclad Lad | 05-17-2009 02:53 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) The 9X18 that might not one-shot stop is much better than the 454 Casull I can't control. And I have never had a FT Feed, Fire, or Eject with that thing. I've tried. I'd trust it as much as any of my revolvers to go bang when it had to. And it's the most accurate gun I own, even with steel-cased Norinco. It's the best damn thing the Commies ever did.

morganchaser | 05-17-2009 03:08 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1726178) All shooting is good shooting - provided you strive to learn and not just spray lead down range. In about 6 months I went from good/very good to competing for state championships......all shooting a single shot air pistol in my home.....this training all translated over to slow, times and rapid fire in 22LR, Center-fire nad 45 ACP NRA Conventional Pistol "Bullseye". When you get good at slow fire ....all the rest follows.....it is all based off of slow precision fire..... Shoot every day for 1 hour in you yards/basement with an air pistol...read and study the art and science of pistol shooting....you get very good in a few months and perhaps world class in a few years. I know this first hand.....so forget the train with whay you will use idea....it all carreis over at some point.....you train with a simple 22LR DAO pocket pistol ....your DAO 380 will shoot just the same..... All training is good....more training is better. The key is to just shoot anything.
That's good to hear. There's a nice little "Walther PPK" CO2 pellet gun at a local sporting goods store for a very nice price. Had forgotten about it, but I think I'm gonna get it now. Don't know if it's got a double action trigger, but nothing's perfect. One thing I've noticed is my .30-06/shotgun has taught me a flinch, so I'm gonna have to lose that with some .22/dry fire time. I've always thought my gun fondling was improving my "on sight" time, so it's good to hear from a competitive shooter confirmation of the idea. Now I want to get a projection television and play some "duck hunt."

morganchaser | 05-17-2009 03:57 AM
Re: Why buy guns now? (no ammo) Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg (Post 1726173) Hard to respond to your logic, but try to understand that I am unemployed and with machinery going for pennies on the dollar, and not having the skills to use them, I don't think it would be wise to go to the trouble to rent a truck with a lift gate, and incurr the expense of leasing a storage unit at this time. I have enough preps and other normal shit that I will have to contend with moving in the next year. There are like 3 really nice cut off wheels there too. They have the magnetic tables. I may snag those. My family has a close friend that had his own tool and die making business for over 30 years. He closed up 2 months ago. All his equipment was auctioned off for next to nothing. He was lucky enough to get a job in a tool shop in another state. I already helped myself to a couple of desktop computers and a couple of brand new in the box HP 1020 laserjet printers, with a couple of extra new toner cartridges, a laptop with docking station and a 22 inch widescreen monitor. A Magnesium handtruck, a 12,000 btu air conditioner (the type that is on wheels with the hose that goes out the window), a Fiberglass and aluminum 24 foot extension ladder, 2 brand new 48 inch Rigid pipe wrenches (they are like 200 bucks a piece, and I don't know what I will do with those) 20 five gallon cans of blacktop sealer. I was making silicone rubber pads for their Tampo Pad Transfer Printing operation for over 12 years. My own process that I designed and formulated. I am tempted to take all my equipment and materials and start making them from my home. I would have to market them, and the competition is stiff. That is a hard area to break into. Then the cost to me for EDM'd molds for casting the pads would be a major investment. Without the companies dollars to support the operation, I would probably be wasting valuable time and resources. Pad Printing is a dying trade it seems these days in the USA because of China.
That's the reality of the situation. Well summarized. Good for us though. Cheap tools. Cost of moving them is the problem. I invested in a used pallet jack off craigslist one pay day. Still need a flatbed trailer but you can rent them. Would love to have a forklift/portable hoist. Way I think of it, Machine cost=the price of a rigger+change. If you are your own rigger, that puts you in a nice position for near free tools however, there is a little bit of a lacked sense of urgency due to the surplus of the machines. I think the "used iron" market is the "Real Estate" of this decade. Great time to be an inventor. Buy used machine for change, move it yourself, and convert it to CNC using bare bones parts. Pay for the upgrades with the first couple orders, and then upgrade the servos/steppers to increase production speed via rapid traverse. You can leap frog your way to multi-million dollar contracts like my old boss did this way. With small runs of high value parts and CNC, you don't need much in the way of employees either. Don't even have to use ballscrews if you don't want to.(I want to) There's a lot of these guys out there that I'm running in to at school. No shortage of machine shops competing for contracts, but if you can design and market a product: the sky's the limit. Finding that specialty niche that weeds out the competition too. Has to be the right product. Holsters and knives come to mind as cut throat businesses. Enough to get by, but high drop out rate. Not as bad as Jewelry though. Take's a lot of courage to do even if the idea is solid. Toys always competing with investments. I also never want to "make the license plates" once I've invested in tools. :no_ma: One business that could really use CNC is holster making. I get the impression the stitching is 90% of holster time. I think you could jerryrig a CNC mill in to a multi-"needle" CNC sewing machine if you were clever with the fixturing. Could also put a spring loaded ball tipped rod in a tool holder, and bone the leather CNC style. Die-cut the leather. That's how you can tell when a business is comfortable: when nobody is cutting throats. Everyone make's holsters for 1911's, Glocks, and S&W revolvers. Someone could probably do alright for themselves making $50 leather holsters for C&R pistols.(could shorten the life span on them below custom level via leather treatment/stitching.) Can't charge custom prices for production work, except when you can. I would do it myself, and I might at some point, except I like planning businesses much better than I like running them. No wonder I'm so broke. :36_3_12: Maybe once I've done, I can teach.

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