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reviver | 01-15-2009 12:30 PM
Courage and Guns Courage and Guns by Michael Gaddy Quote:
"One of the ordinary modes, by which tyrants accomplish their purposes without resistance, is, by disarming the people, and making it an offense to keep arms." ~ Constitutional scholar and Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story
I was somewhat surprised in the email responses to my article here at the number of inquiries from would be first-time gun purchasers asking for advice on firearm selection, training and concealed carry permits. Obviously there are many in the freedom crowd out there who has yet to arm themselves. I believe that many first-time gun buyers have a tendency to put the cart before the horse. Many long-time gun owners fit in the same category. Before one purchases a firearm for defense of life and property, it is imperative they realize one must first possess the courage to use this tool of liberty, up to and including deadly force. The firearm should never be the source of that courage. An inanimate object is a poor substitute for character. True courage is in short supply in this nation�s gun culture. Supposed strong advocates of the Second Amendment routinely vote for politicians with anti-gun voting records because they are members of their chosen political party. Authors of books on the rights of citizens to keep and bear arms routinely vote for the same anti-gun politicians. One in particular emailed me that he could not support Ron Paul in the 2008 election because he was "unelectable." This author then spoke of having to "hold his nose" when he voted for John McCain. Great courage, this one! The majority of gun magazines routinely carry many more articles on firearms for "military and police" than they do for Joe Citizen. An editor for one of these magazines chastised me in an email for having the audacity to suggest his publication support Ron Paul for president because he too saw him as "unelectable." He opined that those who would vote for Ron Paul were actually helping the greater of two evils get elected. When I asked him whom he would vote for if his choices were Stalin or Hitler, he replied that it would never come to that in America. I promptly cancelled my subscription to his magazine. Cowardice and ignorance in the same package is hard to support. Then there are those bastions of liberty in the pro-gun crowd who question why anyone would want to own an AK-47 or any other of those dastardly assault weapons. They contend there is no "legitimate" reason to own one. Let me make this as simple as I can: I own a legal AK-47 and several other assault weapons so I can assault the tyrant who seeks to deprive me of my rights granted by my creator, or any other criminal who attempts to take that which is mine, or harm me and those I love. Simple enough? From past experience I know I am going to catch a lot of flak for my opinion of concealed carry laws, because I believe them to be another form of registration. Gun owners who claim they are totally against "registration" of firearms have no problem in registering themselves as gun owners. Most egregious is their paying the state to bestow on them the rights they already possess as free men. If the true purpose of the Second Amendment is to provide the means to resist a tyrannical government, where is the logic in begging and paying that same government to allow us to possess the weapons to protect ourselves from their tyrannical pursuits? Groveling at the feet of tyrants is no reflection of courage. Not only do concealed carry permit holders place themselves in a database available to all bureaucrats whose goal is to disarm everyone, they place themselves in the database of all law enforcement agencies. How convenient it must be for the cop who runs your drivers or vehicle license number to immediately know you are armed, what you drive, where you live, and in some cases, what type firearm you have. Next on my list of things to anger the average gun guy is my total disdain for the organization that presents itself as the true champion of the right to keep and bear arms: the NRA, better known as the National Republican Association � Oops, sorry, National Rifle Association. Author and American Patriot L. Neil Smith, eloquently states his reasons for not trusting the NRA here. If you are a potential owner of a new firearm, or possess several, please reexamine your commitment to liberty or give your weapons to a true patriot now rather than the tyrant when he comes for them. Quote:
Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who comes near that precious jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. When you give up that force, you are ruined. ~ Patrick Henry
January 8, 2009 Michael Gaddy [send him mail], an Army veteran of Vietnam, Grenada, and Beirut, lives in the Four Corners area of the American Southwest. http://www.lewrockwell.com/gaddy/gaddy40.html Copyright � 2009 LewRockwell.com

SLV>GLD | 01-15-2009 12:36 PM
Re: Courage and Guns I'm truly torn on CCW. On the one hand I like not being in that particular database. On the other I really feel uncomfortable packing without one and in this particular state once you have one you don't have to do NICS or any other hoops to purchase a firearm, you just show your CCW with your cash. Still, I say screw the CCW, the 2nd amendment allows no room for infringment which is precisely what CCW is.

The Argent Dragon | 01-15-2009 12:39 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
How convenient it must be for the cop who runs your drivers or vehicle license number to immediately know you are armed, what you drive, where you live, and in some cases, what type firearm you have.
Hmmmm........and to think I was even considering getting a CHL. :s10:

SLV>GLD | 01-15-2009 12:42 PM
Re: Courage and Guns I wonder, often, if I am in a clear cut case of using deadly force to stop a clear and present danger to my life yet I did so with a firearm that I was carrying concealed without a permit how that detail would affect the outcome of my predicament.

reviver | 01-15-2009 01:49 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1513397) I wonder, often, if I am in a clear cut case of using deadly force to stop a clear and present danger to my life yet I did so with a firearm that I was carrying concealed without a permit how that detail would affect the outcome of my predicament.
That is dependent on how well versed you are with the 'law's' reality vs the facade pulled over most of our eyes.

flying | 01-15-2009 02:37 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1513397) I wonder, often, if I am in a clear cut case of using deadly force to stop a clear and present danger to my life yet I did so with a firearm that I was carrying concealed without a permit how that detail would affect the outcome of my predicament.
I remember reading a post where a husband said he let his wife carry in a non ccw state. His reason was it would be easier to get her out of a police station than a morgue.

californiaprospector | 01-15-2009 03:37 PM
Re: Courage and Guns The Second Amendment is an inalienable right. "Inalienable" means "cannot be taken away." It also means "pre-existing," not being dependent upon a document or a regime for its existence. Application for a Concealed Carry Weapon PERMIT is asking permission to exercise an inalienable right. Compliance with unconstitutional firearms "laws" is implicit agreement that your right is not really a right at all, but a privilege. Of course there is great legal hazard in concealed carry without an unconstitutionally-necessary license, but how much more will citizens continue to play the government's games of begging their master for more privileges? As he is increasingly doing so, the master is saying "no" much more often, now that we do not have easy means to make him fear us, we, the ostensible "boss" in a supposedly "free society." We have permitted him to strangle our inalienable rights by our cooperation and refusal to engage in active "correction" of his trespasses and crimes against the laws of God and the rights He extends to us, and the constitution most Americans believe is (or should be) the law of the land. The first step to freedom is to recognize who is taking one's freedom away. In the front line, is the "law enforcement officer." Second row, "justices" of local, appellate and "supreme" courts. Third row, politician-lawyers in the US and state capitols. Standing alongside, backing all three rows up, the US military. The second step to freedom is to stop worshiping your enemy, he who enslaves you, once you realize who he really is. The third step is the march forward of the freedom fighter, a breed of man including everything from the Minuteman of the Revolutionary War, the French Partisan, and the Iraqi irregular. You know where the march needs to go. Thousands merely need to start walking.

californiaprospector | 01-15-2009 03:43 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1513397) I wonder, often, if I am in a clear cut case of using deadly force to stop a clear and present danger to my life yet I did so with a firearm that I was carrying concealed without a permit how that detail would affect the outcome of my predicament.
Freedom cannot live until your question is answered easily with this: you use the firearm to stop a "clear and present danger to your life" who is trying to disarm you simply for defending yourself as a freeman in accordance with the laws of God and the law of the land. Thugs sometimes wear badges. Will you come out alive? Possibly not, but in fights for freedom, people die. Do I need to make that more clear? (this statement is protected free speech in accordance with Brandenburg v. Ohio)

reviver | 01-15-2009 03:45 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by californiaprospector (Post 1513651) The Second Amendment is an inalienable right. "Inalienable" means "cannot be taken away." Compliance with unconstitutional firearms "laws" is implicit agreement that your right is not really a right at all, but a privilege.
Excellent post. Thank you. Remember 'they' require our consent to be their serf. And too many are neck deep (working for) in the corporation to understand that simple point. As this 'correction' gets worse, more and more will realize this ...but it will be too late to do anything about it.

SLV>GLD | 01-15-2009 04:15 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by flying (Post 1513571) I remember reading a post where a husband said he let his wife carry in a non ccw state. His reason was it would be easier to get her out of a police station than a morgue.
Precisely why I carry regardless what legal mumbo-jumbo says I shouldn't be. I also keep several copies of the constitution on my various effects (car, laptop, desk drawer, anywhere I am). Should I ever be confronted with a situation where my RIGHT to bear arms is being challenged by a legal twit I will offer the 2nd amendment as my validation for doing so. I don't expect it to work at the moment of the arrest but my mouth won't be moving until I am seated in front of my lawyer (5th amendment) and I sure hope he gets some traction on retrieving my firearm (4th amendment) and getting my ass out of the slammer ASAP. He'd be hard pressed to get me out of the morgue. It still doesn't do much to settle the mind, but not much does today. :MIA:

reformed wastrel | 01-15-2009 06:54 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1513384) I'm truly torn on CCW. On the one hand I like not being in that particular database. On the other I really feel uncomfortable packing without one and in this particular state once you have one you don't have to do NICS or any other hoops to purchase a firearm, you just show your CCW with your cash. Still, I say screw the CCW, the 2nd amendment allows no room for infringment which is precisely what CCW is.
This is why I've decided to get my CCW -- in my state is it also the case that CCW holders do not have to do the NICS check. When an NICS check is done on you, the feds are being told exactly when, where, and from whom you're buying a gun, as well (I think) as what guns you're getting. They're not supposed to keep that info past a certain number of days, but they almost assuredly damn well are keeping it. I've bought guns and gone through the NCIS check a few times prior to today. So they already KNOW that I'm a gunowner! The CCW isn't going to tell them a damn thing they don't already know. But getting the CCW will mean my future purchases won't get into their NCIS system. It's too late for me to hide that I'm a gunowner. But I can hide how many guns I really have. That might come in handy if they come to take my guns someday.

morganchaser | 01-15-2009 07:26 PM
Re: Courage and Guns I hope they do know what type of gun I'll be carrying when I get my CCW. I bet they feel naked around AP firearms.

latitude22 | 01-15-2009 07:30 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1513397) I wonder, often, if I am in a clear cut case of using deadly force to stop a clear and present danger to my life yet I did so with a firearm that I was carrying concealed without a permit how that detail would affect the outcome of my predicament.
If you are use it to save your own life i think you'll be glad that you are having to worry about the second problem.......

Twisted Avatar | 01-18-2009 11:00 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1513397) I wonder, often, if I am in a clear cut case of using deadly force to stop a clear and present danger to my life yet I did so with a firearm that I was carrying concealed without a permit how that detail would affect the outcome of my predicament.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

goldgun | 01-19-2009 12:49 AM
Re: Courage and Guns The part I don't like about not having a CCW and carrying is that if you are caught you cannot buy firearms anymore.

goldgun | 01-19-2009 12:52 AM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by reformed wastrel (Post 1513989) This is why I've decided to get my CCW -- in my state is it also the case that CCW holders do not have to do the NICS check. When an NICS check is done on you, the feds are being told exactly when, where, and from whom you're buying a gun, as well (I think) as what guns you're getting. They're not supposed to keep that info past a certain number of days, but they almost assuredly damn well are keeping it. I've bought guns and gone through the NCIS check a few times prior to today. So they already KNOW that I'm a gunowner! The CCW isn't going to tell them a damn thing they don't already know. But getting the CCW will mean my future purchases won't get into their NCIS system. It's too late for me to hide that I'm a gunowner. But I can hide how many guns I really have. That might come in handy if they come to take my guns someday.
Did't you sell them all with that face to face sell in your state a while back. That is how I got rid of my scary guns. Now all I have is an old .22LR that my dad gave me when I was ten.

reformed wastrel | 01-19-2009 02:49 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by goldgun (Post 1518135) Did't you sell them all with that face to face sell in your state a while back. That is how I got rid of my scary guns. Now all I have is an old .22LR that my dad gave me when I was ten.
No, I could never sell my precious. But I was carrying most of them with me when I visited Hawaii recently. Did you know that in some of the parks there, you can walk right up to a slow-moving lava flow? Sadly, I'm a very clumsy person.... I lost my balance and almost fell into the lava! I managed to not fall in, but all my guns went SPLOOSH right into the lava. I was very sad. Rivers, lakes, lava flows.... so many dangers out there. I hope other gun owners can learn from our sad misadventures.

SLV>GLD | 01-19-2009 02:52 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by reformed wastrel (Post 1519233) I managed to not fall in, but all my guns went SPLOOSH right into the lava. I was very sad.
1st off, I'd expect them to go "HISSSSSSS", so I was surprised that they went "SPLOOOSH". 2ndly, I sincerely hope they were not loaded at the time of the accident or else that scene could have gotten even uglier! :biggrin:

Twisted Avatar | 01-19-2009 02:56 PM
Re: Courage and Guns 2 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by reformed wastrel (Post 1519233) No, I could never sell my precious. But I was carrying most of them with me when I visited Hawaii recently. Did you know that in some of the parks there, you can walk right up to a slow-moving lava flow? Sadly, I'm a very clumsy person.... I lost my balance and almost fell into the lava! I managed to not fall in, but all my guns went SPLOOSH right into the lava. I was very sad. Rivers, lakes, lava flows.... so many dangers out there. I hope other gun owners can learn from our sad misadventures.
From boating accidents, to falling off trucks now we have to worry about LAVA FLOWS DAM WHEN WILL THIS END???

Roland30 | 01-19-2009 03:20 PM
Re: Courage and Guns I lost all my firearms due to a horrific divorce incedent...

Quadroon | 01-19-2009 05:29 PM
Re: Courage and Guns I'm afraid courage here must be weighed against ease and comfort. Few will admit valuing ease and comfort, fewer still to valuing them more than liberty, when, in reality, I suspect most people value them more than life itself. And this is no mystery. Ease and comfort are wonderful things, not to be hastily discarded, especially if you were born to them, and know no other way of life. If I ever stop procrastinating, I'll probably go ahead and grovel, and get my CCW permit. Like the vast majority of sheeple, I'll also keep paying taxes, registering my cars, buying car insurance, and all the rest, until the time when doing so no longer purchases the corresponding degree of ease and comfort. In other words, unlike Colonel Kurtz, I won't be getting out of the boat--until and unless it actually sinks. And once in the drink, I'll be counting on a reasonably quick rescue.:biggrin: Meanwhile, I'll be up on deck, in a Wal-mart life vest, with a mail-order water filter, and a pocket full of energy bars, wondering if the damned thing might actually stay afloat, at least until I've lived out my precious little dolce vita. Never get out of the boat. Absolutely g*****n right. Unless you were going all the way. Kurtz got off the boat. He split from the whole f*****g program. --Apocalypse Now Living in the suburbs, working for The Man, and refusing to pay income tax? Zipping along on today's streets and highways, without license, registration, and proof of insurance? Gallivanting around town, carrying a concealed weapon, with no permit? To me, this is like getting halfway out of the boat. It's like trying to exercise your freedom, while clinging to the comfort and convenience of modern slavery. It seems like a very dangerous and needlessly risky thing to do. If you aren't ready to go all the way, isn't it better to stay on board?:captain:

Silver001 | 01-19-2009 10:17 PM
Re: Courage and Guns My wife and I just went thru the process in Florida, My wife to shut me up, but to be point blank it may soon be a nessicity to be armed or be a victum. Unemploymnet is way up and people have to feed there families one way or another. Expect crime to increase and get more violent, and I am to damn old to slug it out anymore. I am like the Old Prospector An old prospector shuffled into town leading an old tired mule. The old man headed straight for the only saloon in town to clear his parched throat. He walked up to the saloon and tied his old mule to the hitch rail. As he stood there brushing some of the dust from his face and clothes, a young gunslinger stepped out of the saloon with a gun in one hand and a bottle of whiskey in the other. The young gunslinger looked at the old man and laughed, saying, 'Hey old man, have you ever danced?' The old man looked up at the gunslinger and said, 'No,I never did dance, -- just never wanted to.' A crowd had gathered quickly and the gunslinger grinned and said, 'Well, you old fool, you're gonna' dance now,' and started shooting at the old man's feet. The old prospector in order to not get a toe blown off or his boots perforated was soon hopping around like a flea on a hot skillet and everybody was laughing fit to be tied. When the last bullet had been fired the young gunslinger, still laughing, holstered his gun and turned around to go back into the saloon. The old man turned to his pack mule, pulled out a double barreled shotgun, and cocked both hammers back. The loud, audible double clicks carried clearly through the desert air. The crowd stopped laughing immediately. The young gunslinger heard the sounds, too, and he turned around very slowly. The quiet was almost deafening. The crowd watched as the young gunman stared at the old timer and the large gaping holes of those twin barrels. He found it hard to swallow. The barrels of the shotgun never wavered in the old man's hands. The old man said, 'Son, did you ever kiss a mule's ass?' The boy bully swallowed hard and said, 'No. But I've always wanted to.' There are two lessons for us all here: 1. Don't waste ammunition. 2. Don't mess with old people.

GRP | 01-19-2009 10:37 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Haa Haa,,, LMAF............. Great Story! GRP

poor boy | 01-19-2009 10:58 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1513397) I wonder, often, if I am in a clear cut case of using deadly force to stop a clear and present danger to my life yet I did so with a firearm that I was carrying concealed without a permit how that detail would affect the outcome of my predicament.
You are a slave. Reread you're own post.

flash91 | 01-19-2009 11:01 PM
Re: Courage and Guns If you don't have the permit you are a criminal. might pay to think like one. So you had to shoot someone - Were there witnesses? Can you run away from the scene? Can you hide the gun? Run around a corner and toss it in a rain gutter or sewer maybe? No witnesses? might pay to have a heft bag and a dumping place planned out. What's more dangerous, crooks or police? Police by far, so get the permit. Yes its an infringement, but unless you can fund a revolution you are just one against the system. I wonder if we'll have guns worth having in a month anyway.

poor boy | 01-19-2009 11:04 PM
Re: Courage and Guns O.K. If you need a permit then buy one.....:s1:

SLV>GLD | 01-19-2009 11:39 PM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by poor boy (Post 1520029) You are a slave. Reread you're own post.
Duh, that's the point. Permit=slave. No permit, defend self=treated as slave. Slave is a state of mind. I am perfectly reasonable to reflect on the outcome of an un-permitted defense. And your point is? You have suggestions on un-slaving myself? Or are you just trolling to feel better about your slave self?

elroy | 01-20-2009 12:14 AM
Re: Courage and Guns In some states illegal carry will get you some jail time. In some states getting caught for illegal carry makes you ineligible for a CCW in the future. Then if you get caught carrying illegally after having been convicted of illegal carry you have a very serious problem. Unless you have an attorney on retainer and lots of money and time to burn I would get a CCW if it is available to you. If you live some place where CCWs are not issued I would not fault you for exercising your god given rights. Indiana is now offering a lifetime CCW permit. When my 4 year permit expires I'll get the new lifetime permit.

goldgun | 01-20-2009 01:07 AM
Re: Courage and Guns Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1519246) From boating accidents, to falling off trucks now we have to worry about LAVA FLOWS DAM WHEN WILL THIS END???
Today! The Supreme Leader is in.

G.Gordon | 01-20-2009 12:02 PM
Re: Courage and Guns I understand the objection to seeking permission from the government to exercising a pre existing right. It's disgusting, vile and repugnant. Like having to get a permit to write an editorial for the newspaper. However, the advent of the shall issue permit system that now exists in the majority of states has created legions of gun carrrying individuals, people that are now accustomed to having their guns with them and who will not easily give that freedom and power back to the state. This has shifted the balance of power from the state to the individual. So consider the actual effect of the concealed carry laws on your gun rights. More people who actually exercise their rights and understand them and what it means to be armed. I have to say that it's a net positive for our cause. What I am trying to say is that the constitution has been violated in so many ways for so long that it is irrelevant at this point. What matters now is political power, and more people armed and carrying gives us that political power.

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