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NaP@lm | 06-05-2009 10:48 AM
Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Church To Celebrate 'Responsible Handgun Owners' DYLAN T. LOVAN, Associated Press Writer Posted: 2:19 pm EDT June 4, 2009 Updated: 6:39 am EDT June 5, 2009 LOUISVILLE, Ky. -- A Kentucky pastor is inviting his flock to bring guns to church to celebrate the Fourth of July and the Second Amendment. New Bethel Church is welcoming "responsible handgun owners" to wear their firearms inside the church June 27, a Saturday. An ad says there will be a handgun raffle, patriotic music and information on gun safety. "We're just going to celebrate the upcoming theme of the birth of our nation," said pastor Ken Pagano. "And we're not ashamed to say that there was a strong belief in God and firearms -- without that this country wouldn't be here." The guns must be unloaded and private security will check visitors at the door, Pagano said. He said recent church shootings, including the killing Sunday of a late-term abortion provider in Kansas, which he condemned, highlight the need to promote safe gun ownership. The New Bethel Church event was planned months before Dr. George Tiller was shot to death in a Wichita church. Kentucky allows residents to openly carry guns in public with some restrictions. Gun owners carrying concealed weapons must have state-issued permits and can't take them to schools, jails or bars, among other exceptions. Pagano's Protestant church, which attracts up to 150 people to Sunday services, is a member of the Assemblies of God. The former Marine and handgun instructor said he expected some backlash, but has heard only a "little bit" of criticism of the gun event. John Phillips, an Arkansas pastor who was shot twice while leading a service at his former church in 1986, said a house of worship is no place for firearms. "A church is designated as a safe haven, it's a place of worship," said Phillips, who was shot by a church member's relative for an unknown reason and still has a bullet lodged in his spine. "It is unconscionable to me to think that a church would be a place that you would even want to bring a weapon." Phillips spoke out against a bill before the Arkansas General Assembly that would have permitted the carrying of guns in that state's churches. The bill failed in February. Pagano, 50, said some members of his church were concerned that President Obama's administration could restrict gun ownership, and they supported the plan for the event when Pagano asked their opinion. Marian McClure Taylor, executive director of the Kentucky Council of Churches, an umbrella organization for 11 Christian denominations in Kentucky, said Christian churches are promoters of peace, but "most allow for arms to be taken up under certain conditions." Taylor said Pagano assured her the event would focus on promoting responsible gun ownership and any proceeds would go to charity. "Those two commitments are consistent with the high value the Assemblies of God churches place on human life," she said in an e-mail message. Pagano is encouraging church members to bring a canned good and a friend to the event. He said guns must be unloaded for insurance purposes and safety reasons. He said the point was not to mix worship with guns, though he may reference some passages from the Bible. "Firearms can be evil and they can be useful," he said. "We're just trying to promote responsible gun ownership and gun safety." http://www.wsbtv.com/family/19658390/detail.html

Argentsum | 06-05-2009 12:28 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You LOL! Beecher's Bibles Reloaded.:4_1_72:

BigJosh | 06-05-2009 12:48 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Hrmm, "resist not evil" "thou shalt not kill" God people are so silly and hypocritical I just can't help but chuckle when I see something like this.

TLM | 06-05-2009 01:10 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
Originally Posted by meatman (Post 1755629) must be unloaded if I was the Mexican cartel I know where I would be going to get some firearms
It said unloaded. I didn't see any restrictions on bringing loaded mags(clips).

Argentsum | 06-05-2009 01:10 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Obviously this is a more fundamentalist, "old testament" style preacher :biggrin:.

sparky0 | 06-05-2009 01:13 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJosh (Post 1755700) Hrmm, "resist not evil" "thou shalt not kill" God people are so silly and hypocritical I just can't help but chuckle when I see something like this.
"Thou shalt not murder" big difference between self defence and murder...study more. ""The Hebrew word used here is ratsach,3 which nearly always refers to intentional killing without cause (unless indicated otherwise by context). Hebrew law recognized accidental killing as not punishable. In fact, specific cities were designated as "cities of refuge," so that an unintentional killer could flee to escape retribution.4 The Hebrew word for "kill" in this instance is not ratsach, but nakah, which can refer to either premeditated or unintentional killing, depending upon context.5 Other Hebrew words also can refer to killing.6-8 The punishment for murder was the death sentence.9 However, to be convicted, there needed to be at least two eyewitnesses.10 The Bible also prescribes that people have a right to defend themselves against attack and use deadly force if necessary.11

SLV>GLD | 06-05-2009 01:28 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
"Firearms can be evil and they can be useful," he said
Disagree on the former and agree on the latter parts of that sentence.

BigJosh | 06-05-2009 01:57 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky0 (Post 1755747) "Thou shalt not murder" big difference between self defence and murder...study more. ""The Hebrew word used here is ratsach,3 which nearly always refers to intentional killing without cause (unless indicated otherwise by context). Hebrew law recognized accidental killing as not punishable. In fact, specific cities were designated as "cities of refuge," so that an unintentional killer could flee to escape retribution.4 The Hebrew word for "kill" in this instance is not ratsach, but nakah, which can refer to either premeditated or unintentional killing, depending upon context.5 Other Hebrew words also can refer to killing.6-8 The punishment for murder was the death sentence.9 However, to be convicted, there needed to be at least two eyewitnesses.10 The Bible also prescribes that people have a right to defend themselves against attack and use deadly force if necessary.11
Typical Christian tap dancing. WWJD!

sparky0 | 06-05-2009 02:03 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJosh (Post 1755809) Typical Christian tap dancing. WWJD!
intresting to see what kind of tappdancing you would do if confronted by a criminal who wanted to kill you or your family...and there you are unarmed, wondering if you should have been carrying. Luke 22:36 Jesus tells his desciples, when he is sending them out to preach, to go buy a sword. He knew they would have to defend themselves.

BigJosh | 06-05-2009 02:18 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky0 (Post 1755821) intresting to see what kind of tappdancing you would do if confronted by a criminal who wanted to kill you or your family...and there you are unarmed, wondering if you should have been carrying. Luke 22:36 Jesus tells his desciples, when he is sending them out to preach, to go buy a sword. He knew they would have to defend themselves.
This makes zero sense. If I was confronted by a criminal I would defend myself. I don't need to believe in God to know its a good idea to protect myself. I think it's a bit sad you seem to need a book to tell you how to live and that it is necessary to protect yourself from danger. Seems like a no-brainer. Please though, what about "resist not evil". Why didn't Jesus fight off those evil Romans when they supposedly killed him? I thought you wanted to live like Jesus? In that case you clearly should not be defending yourself.

sparky0 | 06-05-2009 02:24 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJosh (Post 1755836) This makes zero sense. If I was confronted by a criminal I would defend myself. I don't need to believe in God to know its a good idea to protect myself. I think it's a bit sad you seem to need a book to tell you how to live and that it is necessary to protect yourself from danger. Seems like a no-brainer. Please though, what about "resist not evil". Why didn't Jesus fight off those evil Romans when they supposedly killed him? I thought you wanted to live like Jesus? In that case you clearly should not be defending yourself.
You don't know why he didn't fight off the people who crucified him? Of course you would defend yourself! And Christians don't need the book to tell them either....they just don't see a conflict in ideology. So they decided to wear the guns to church...and fight the oppresive gov't ideals of disarming the public in thier own way. Big deal...Jesus was against oppresive govt as well. No conflict.

johndoh | 06-05-2009 03:05 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You I'm far from a bible expert, but I dont' recall seeing anything in the old or new testament that says we are not to defend ourselves. I do agree that carrying an unloaded firearm makes zero sense. Otherwise, I'm not sure what to think of this thing. I suspect that in Kentucky, unloaded open carry is probably legal anyway, and you shouldn't need an invite to obey the law. Although, 99.9999% of the populace does not understand that fact, and has been conditioned to freak out at the sight of a person carrying a firearm. So, maybe this guy's actions will at least open a few eyes/minds. Wonder if the Louisville PD will be there and how heavy handed they'll be? Don't need to stretch my imagination too much, to see SWAT showing up.

Matt-themaddog-Dollar | 06-05-2009 03:49 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You There is a difference between being persecuted for God's sake, and being randomly threatened by a petty murderer/rapist/etc. Jesus did not defend himself against the Romans, because he was being persecuted for God's sake. Jesus' apostles were all executed (except John) and they did not defend themselves because they were being persecuted for God's sake. But Jesus told his disciples: "he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one" because he knew that when the went out traveling across the world on their own, that they would likely encounter murderous rogues on the highway, and that they should defend themselves because: 1) They are not being persecuted for God's sake 2) If they were to die senselessly and randomly, then the word of God would die senselessly and randomly.

Matt-themaddog-Dollar | 06-05-2009 03:50 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Why can't they carry loaded guns in church? Is the pastor admitting that guns are dangerous and threatening? That's as if Jesus told his apostles to buy the handle of a sword, but not a blade.

sirgonzo420 | 06-05-2009 04:03 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoh (Post 1755934) I'm far from a bible expert, but I dont' recall seeing anything in the old or new testament that says we are not to defend ourselves. I do agree that carrying an unloaded firearm makes zero sense. Otherwise, I'm not sure what to think of this thing. I suspect that in Kentucky, unloaded open carry is probably legal anyway, and you shouldn't need an invite to obey the law. Although, 99.9999% of the populace does not understand that fact, and has been conditioned to freak out at the sight of a person carrying a firearm. So, maybe this guy's actions will at least open a few eyes/minds. Wonder if the Louisville PD will be there and how heavy handed they'll be? Don't need to stretch my imagination too much, to see SWAT showing up.
In Kentucky, open carry is legal without any permit (loaded or not).... Kentucky Constitution, Section 1: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons. http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legresou/Constitu/001.htm .

johndoh | 06-05-2009 04:20 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
Originally Posted by sirgonzo420 (Post 1756032) In Kentucky, open carry is legal without any permit (loaded or not).... Kentucky Constitution, Section 1: The right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the State, subject to the power of the General Assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons. http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Legresou/Constitu/001.htm .
Thank you, sir. :ok: to the Kentucky legistature circa 1891

morganchaser | 06-05-2009 04:57 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
Originally Posted by NaP@lm (Post 1755472) Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Church To Celebrate 'Responsible Handgun Owners' The guns must be unloaded and private security will check visitors at the door, Pagano said. ... ... ... He said recent church shootings, including the killing Sunday of a late-term abortion provider in Kansas, which he condemned, highlight the need to promote safe gun ownership.
Way to take a great idea and compromise it in to retardedness. Then the statement goes so far as to highlight how retarded the compromise made the idea citing an example of what make's the idea so retarded! aka:How exactly do unloaded firearms help prevent church shootings? Is this a legal hurdle? How can the state ban concealed/open carry in a church WITH PERMISSION? It's private property!

poor boy | 06-05-2009 05:44 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You I wonder if it's a 501c3 church or a real church ?

CrufflerJJ | 06-05-2009 07:12 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
Originally Posted by morganchaser (Post 1756132) aka:How exactly do unloaded firearms help prevent church shootings?
Simple - they don't. It's a feel good media attention-grabbing ploy by the preacher. If he was serious about the issue, there would be no restriction that the weapons must be unloaded. Pure BS.

JJ_ | 06-05-2009 07:22 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You I carry in church. But I don't tell the pastor...

Mantokir | 06-05-2009 08:04 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
Originally Posted by morganchaser (Post 1756132) aka:How exactly do unloaded firearms help prevent church shootings?
I wouldn't be surprised if it was said with a wink and a nudge. Sort of a "we had to put this in the paper to cover our ass" but you know the real deal. It is Kentucky after all.

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 06-05-2009 09:54 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky0 (Post 1755841) You don't know why he didn't fight off the people who crucified him? Of course you would defend yourself! And Christians don't need the book to tell them either....they just don't see a conflict in ideology. So they decided to wear the guns to church...and fight the oppresive gov't ideals of disarming the public in thier own way. Big deal...Jesus was against oppresive govt as well. No conflict.
I think we should bring up the one time Christ *did* use violence: Against the Money-Changers in the temple. Beat them up. Punched and kicked them. Hit them with a whip. Belittled their standings. Christ went willingly to the Cross as I understand it. It isn't as though he was walking down the street, hoping to continue taking over the Roman Empire by spiritual conquest, and they suddenly grabbed him from the Shadows. There is even a part where people are begging him to flee the city before the whole issue reaches a head (His precense is causing massive rioting) and he refuses because he wishes to see things to the end, whatever that end may be...... Guns in a church? Why is this reminding me of highlander?

Toxa | 06-05-2009 11:42 PM
Re: Gun-Loving Pastor: Piece Be With You Sweet, we need more pastors like him.

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