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- - Swords (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=344114)

<SLV> | 01-29-2009 03:14 PM
Swords Has anyone here been trained to fight with a sword? If so, what discipline do you recommend, and what is the best value for a fighting sword?

MorganTheGoat | 01-29-2009 03:16 PM
Re: Swords I have been told by people who have studied it that Kendo is the best. I have a sword, but just a replica. Good for water mellons and sheetrock mostly.

Heimdhal | 01-29-2009 03:26 PM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1538420) Has anyone here been trained to fight with a sword? If so, what discipline do you recommend, and what is the best value for a fighting sword?
This is such an insanley broad question youll have a hard time with a good answer. Its like asking "has any one ever shot a gun? What do you recomend?" First you have to determine WHICH form of fencing or martial arts you prefer and which is the most practical. I used to do medieval reenactments based on european history. I trained in and taught mostly 'sword and board' or, single handed, usualy double edged sword and a shield, usualy a small one called a "Targe" or a large round shield. If you prefer two handed long swords(swords of war, zweihander, etc) you can look for a book called "Secrets of Medieval German Swordsmanship" written by Christian Henry Tobler. It is based of the direct writings of the Lichtenaur Method, one of the finest forms of Longswordsmanship in the history of europe. It is greatly translated and illustrated with actual pictures of the authore and an assistant detailing every position discussed in the book. It is, however, only a begining. In all honestly, should one NEED a sword, either the unarmored lichtenaur methods or Japanese Katana methods(Laido, kendo, etc) would be the most prudent since you arent trying to defeat some one in full plate, or even mail, armor. However, all that said, I have been using and training with swords for quite a few years and Id still MUCH MUCH MUCH rather pick up a gun and shoot at my target. I use to own my own armory too, but thats another issue. If I have to use my swords, its because my long gun is out of ammo and broken from beating people with it. My handgun is out of ammo and been broken similarly and I am trying to die with honor like my ancestors because there is a very slim chance I am coming out of the fight alive. Swords takes YEARS to master, even against non-'swordy' people, which is exactly why gunpowder became an overnight hit. Check out www.museumreplicas.com for some of the best, low cost combat ready swords, knives, etc. Paul Chen makes some good, low cost blades as well. www.albionarms.com is great for some of the best swords in the world, but youll pay for them. They mostly make late period, European longswords(14th-16th century) but damn they are good.

Caligula | 01-29-2009 03:43 PM
Re: Swords I've been wanting one of these for awhile now.... http://www.coldsteel.com/grossemesser.html http://cgi.ebay.com/COLD-STEEL-GROSS...2em118Q2el1247 You Tube
You Tube

Heimdhal | 01-29-2009 03:49 PM
Re: Swords Cold Steel swords leave a bit to be desired honestly. They arent bad, they just arent the most proficient. Theres a site called www.sword-buyers-guide.com that is, IMO, one of the best resources on the net for deciding which company to purchase from and for what purpose(real use, cutting demos, wall-hangers, etc.)

Roland30 | 01-29-2009 03:53 PM
Re: Swords I have some minor training/knowledge I studied midevil European style and weapons. I found out that: There is more information on Asian sword training than you can shake a stick at.(if thats what your interested in) But alot of it is a sales pitch. However if your careful there is alot of good info out there. But there is also a good amount of for European info if you know where to look. Theres a book titled the Codex Wallistein that is really good. Palladin press has some nice vidio's and books on bolth subjects. (The swords and the training) I myself prefer European short and long sword and that style. Another thing you might want to check is a group called ARMA (Assn for renasance martial arts) this group is serious. Its not stage or mock fighting like you see in 99% of the movies. It's based on huge amounts of historical reasearch. This is the material I mostly studied, sometimes I still use the two-hand sword as a workout...and trust me it IS a workout. The nice thing is that you dont need a ton of expensive equipment to learn it. I used an old shovle handle for the basic movements and for use in my living room (safer that way too) The main thing is to really reasearch the subject and play with the movements. Do the movements over and over untill you dont need to think about it anymore...then incorporate the next associated move into it. I made my own training sword with a rebated bevel for outside work. But once again...almost anything will work. I also bought a really nice blade from Badger blades as my live blade for test-cutting and for pratice with a live blade. (much like a loaded firearm it makes you respect it and focus) I picked this brand simply due to a live demo at a Ren faire where they cut the crap out of a solid cinder block, the cutting egde was smoothed...but..all of the bevels were untouched and then they would also bend it at almost a 90 degree angle and it would go back true... the demo swords..they simply picked up right from the sales display right there and then. Needless to say I was floored... I put mine through a ton of abuse...metal trash cans...yes cinder block too...no problems...some heavy duty touch up sharpening and its good as new. It's one of my few prized possessions. (cost 7 years ago, about $400) Swords, I recommend once again the ARMA if your interested in the European swords and methods. There is a fee to join if you want to see the good stuff but I found it really well done and put together. I learned a great deal. That info also helped me with something critical that most people never consider when it comes to blades... Picking one that fits you for weight and length. Picking the correct sword for your heighth very very important....cool looks dont count. They(ARMA) also break it down, dispell and point out the hollywood myths about swords to a great extent. This for me has become the same as the firearm rabbit-hole. Hope this helps. (I recieve zero benifet from endorsing the groups or brands I listed)

<SLV> | 01-29-2009 06:09 PM
Re: Swords Thanks for the info. I didn't really know where to start researching. I appreciate all of your opinions. I've been thinking that if they take away firearms a sword might be the next best option for home defense.

End of Hope | 01-29-2009 06:36 PM
Re: Swords You Tube
You Tube

St. Germain | 01-29-2009 06:46 PM
Re: Swords EOH You read my mind. Maybe I'm a lazy American... but it always made good sense to me to take a gun to a knife fight. :ok::ok::ok: ST

MorganTheGoat | 01-29-2009 06:54 PM
Re: Swords A funny read. Old but good. Shank You Very Much - Gary Brecher

Roland30 | 01-29-2009 07:21 PM
Re: Swords I also would prefer a gun anytime in a situation BUT knowing a bit about other means to defend yourself/family ect is always a good thing.

Silver Sayyid | 01-29-2009 07:30 PM
Re: Swords Swords don't make a noise when used, need no ammo and let me tell you something from pure experience. Pull a gun on a person little to no fear, pull a sword on someone watch them piss their pants.

j-son | 01-29-2009 07:48 PM
Re: Swords duncan mcleod of the clan mcleod likes this sword http://www.replicadungeon.com/highla...ana-sword.html

luft97 | 01-29-2009 08:11 PM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1538741) Thanks for the info. I didn't really know where to start researching. I appreciate all of your opinions. I've been thinking that if they take away firearms a sword might be the next best option for home defense.
Probably would be a useless purchase tho.. If you don't take a stand when they come to take away your guns are you going to make a stand when they come for your sword?

gypsybiker45 | 01-29-2009 08:22 PM
Re: Swords Swords huh..... But I am well trained with a Tomahawk and Knife, awesome combination.

<SLV> | 01-29-2009 08:44 PM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by luft97 (Post 1538930) Probably would be a useless purchase tho.. If you don't take a stand when they come to take away your guns are you going to make a stand when they come for your sword?
I won't take a stand against the government. I have already decided my personal rules of engagement. I will take a stand against an agressive intruder.

Caligula | 01-29-2009 09:34 PM
Re: Swords http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2009/01/r...ed-weapon.html

Libertarian_Guard | 01-29-2009 11:16 PM
Re: Swords You Tube
You Tube
The Black Knight

St. Germain | 01-29-2009 11:37 PM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sayyid (Post 1538890) Swords don't make a noise when used, need no ammo and let me tell you something from pure experience. Pull a gun on a person little to no fear, pull a sword on someone watch them piss their pants.
Cross bows are quiet if that is the only criteria. But - I'll meet you in any ally, you bring your sword and I'll bring an 870. I promise that I won't be the one one pissing their pants. :coolbeer: On the other hand - if i had to be the guy with the sword, I would definitely be packing the depends... ST

electric-amish | 01-29-2009 11:42 PM
Re: Swords Short sharp one handed good for halls and inside a house. I present the Celt Sword--short chopper I would never see this as the kind of thing you need much training with. Its not like you are going to run into a situation where someone has more training than you. E-A

dimitri | 01-30-2009 02:07 AM
Re: Swords This guy is supposed to be amazing: http://www.castlekeep.co.uk/products.php

St. Germain | 01-30-2009 08:50 AM
Re: Swords Gypsy, Can you pass along some info on tomahawks? I know nothing about them and some info would be very interesting. Perhaps a thread? Thanks, ST

madfranks | 01-30-2009 08:54 AM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1538741) Thanks for the info. I didn't really know where to start researching. I appreciate all of your opinions. I've been thinking that if they take away firearms a sword might be the next best option for home defense.
With all due respect, I would reconsider turning all your guns in if they come for them. You know what will happen next. My predecessors may not have stood up to defend what they knew was right in letting this country get to the point where it is now, but I will do whatever I can to make sure my children inhereit a world better than the one I received. You know, there are examples in the scripture where people stand up to unjust government - Daniel and Jeremiah are good examples.

Professur | 01-30-2009 09:37 AM
Re: Swords My personal choices would be something to the order of a cutlass or cavalry sabre. The Japanese swords might be a higher technology level, but it's nearly impossible to get real ones, just cheap replicas ... whereas most antique shops have cavalry sabres by the dozen for under $100.

Victor | 01-30-2009 10:51 AM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sayyid (Post 1538890) Pull a gun on a person little to no fear, pull a sword on someone watch them piss their pants.
This is a joke right?

Victor | 01-30-2009 11:06 AM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1538981) I won't take a stand against the government. I have already decided my personal rules of engagement. I will take a stand against an agressive intruder.
If you think a sword is going to stop an agressive determined intruder with a firearm....you are out of your mind.

roasted | 01-30-2009 11:08 AM
Re: Swords Fencing. Otherwise, Chinese, Korean or Japanese swordsmanship. You can find some places that offers European style swordsmanship (other than fencing), but they are not common.

The Argent Dragon | 01-30-2009 11:41 AM
Re: Swords Here's my 1 comment on Swords.........I wield a 34" Cavalry Dragoon Sabre. http://caldwellandcompany.net/ames%20saber0001.jpg Nickname - "Ole' Wristbreaker"

Heimdhal | 01-30-2009 11:47 AM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 1540097) Here's my 1 comment on Swords.........I wield a 34" Cavalry Dragoon Sabre. http://caldwellandcompany.net/ames%20saber0001.jpg Nickname - "Ole' Wristbreaker"
I have the exact same one Argent, or at least the same design. I dont know who made it though, but it is one of the better built swords I have. Its in pieces now cause the wood grip broke during a demonstration, of course that was about 7 years ago and I still havent got around to putting a new grip on it and reassembling the hilt. :thumb.aspx:

CrufflerJJ | 01-30-2009 12:23 PM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 1539845) The Japanese swords might be a higher technology level, but it's nearly impossible to get real ones, just cheap replicas
Papered true Japanese swords are available. As long as you have $$$, that is. For a number of Japanese swords for sale, see: http://www.japanesesword.com/ ...or... http://nihonto.com/contents.html?16,10 Prices are pretty well "up there." My ~1480AD wakizashi (cruddy condition, needing a lot of work) was about $500 about 15 years ago. It is amazing to hold this blade, thinking that it was made so long ago. Back in 1989, when I was able to spend 4 months in Japan, I visited the city of Mino-Seki (outside of Nagoya). In addition to making commercial knives for Al Mar & many other companies, this city also held a monthly Japanese sword making demonstration. Pretty freakin' amazing! As with firearms, training in the use of a tool is probably more important than the choice of tool itself.

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- - Swords (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=344114)

Dawg | 01-31-2009 01:11 PM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula (Post 1538475) I've been wanting one of these for awhile now.... http://www.coldsteel.com/grossemesser.html http://cgi.ebay.com/COLD-STEEL-GROSS...2em118Q2el1247 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfes9...eature=related
Caligula, I have one and it is around 5 or 6 years old. It has a much better finish on the blade than you can tell from the video. I can make you a super deal if interested. I have never cut anything with it. It sits in a corner and comes out once in a while to look at it and wipe it. Mike

SkinnyMoose | 01-31-2009 01:32 PM
Re: Swords You Tube
You Tube

mtnman | 01-31-2009 01:57 PM
Re: Swords For those that want a Katana, there were many made during WW2. This is a Japanese military NCO Katana, it's factory made with a metal scabbard. Well balanced and made to fight with. You can find them at gun shows and ebay for around $250. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...9/MVC-064S.jpg

Agfinger | 01-31-2009 03:40 PM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 1541976) For those that want a Katana, there were many made during WW2. This is a Japanese military NCO Katana, it's factory made with a metal scabbard. Well balanced and made to fight with. You can find them at gun shows and ebay for around $250. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...9/MVC-064S.jpg
These are known as "ShinGunto" swords and are not Katana's but merely look like them...As you probably know, the one you have pictured is the NCO painted handle version, (Type 95). The officer's version has a woven grip. I have one identical to yours except mine has more paint on the grip. Mine has a long leather "knot" that is attached. I have owned it for 20+ years. It has the original capture papers with it from the soldier that brought it home. I agree that for an original Japanese sword, these are amazingly well made. However, $250 will not buy you an original NCO Shingunto...I paid $200 for my papered sword 20 years ago...The Chinese fakes can be routinely purchased for $200-$275 at gun shows....Sadly, many people think they have an original, and upon inspection, it is a fake. However be VERY careful about fakes of these . The Chinese are making them now SO well that they look almost identical to the originals down to the fake wear on the grips and correct serial number fonts and placement and Tokyo/Kokura arsenal stamps...Until recently, the Chinese hadn't bothered to fake these NCO swords because there was not enough money in it...Now there is. Ebay used to be full of these NCO fakes, but I have not seen any lately only officer versions which are not aged as well. The quality and aging on the NCO ShinGunto's had gotten so good, I would have been afraid to buy one without a verification and I used to moderate a major Japanese weapons forum.

CrufflerJJ | 01-31-2009 03:48 PM
Re: Swords The perfect sword for a GIMmer is a Cold Steel Gim: http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/gim-sword.html

Silver Sayyid | 01-31-2009 10:31 PM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Germain (Post 1539260) Cross bows are quiet if that is the only criteria. But - I'll meet you in any ally, you bring your sword and I'll bring an 870. I promise that I won't be the one one pissing their pants. :coolbeer: On the other hand - if i had to be the guy with the sword, I would definitely be packing the depends... ST
I never said that I will take a sword over a pistol, or for that matter my 870. But when I have pulled a sword in self defense it cleared the room pretty damn fast.

St. Germain | 01-31-2009 10:38 PM
Re: Swords So a guy walks into a bar with a sword and ...... Good thing nobody in the room was carrying. You would have been the punch line. ST

Silver Sayyid | 01-31-2009 10:40 PM
Re: Swords [QUOTE=Heimdhal;1538439] I used to do medieval reenactments based on european history. I trained in and taught mostly 'sword and board' or, single handed, usualy double edged sword and a shield, usualy a small one called a "Targe" or a large round shield. Heimdhal, I think I may know you through the other recreation you did, where about on the continental us did you play? Just curious to run into another stick-jock

Silver Sayyid | 01-31-2009 10:44 PM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Germain (Post 1542596) So a guy walks into a bar with a sword and ...... Good thing nobody in the room was carrying. You would have been the punch line. ST
Hey, I didn't start the brawl, they broke into my house...not my fault they weren't packing...... Truth be told only grabbed the blade due to the fact that I couldn't get to my pistol.....

St. Germain | 01-31-2009 10:59 PM
Re: Swords Good for you!! I would love to have seen their faces when a maniac with a giant knife surprised them. They were lucky that they got away with only pissed pants. :applause_ ST

mtnman | 01-31-2009 11:08 PM
Re: Swords Quote:
Originally Posted by Agfinger (Post 1542083) These are known as "ShinGunto" swords and are not Katana's but merely look like them...As you probably know, the one you have pictured is the NCO painted handle version, (Type 95). The officer's version has a woven grip. I have one identical to yours except mine has more paint on the grip. Mine has a long leather "knot" that is attached. I have owned it for 20+ years. It has the original capture papers with it from the soldier that brought it home. I agree that for an original Japanese sword, these are amazingly well made. However, $250 will not buy you an original NCO Shingunto...I paid $200 for my papered sword 20 years ago...The Chinese fakes can be routinely purchased for $200-$275 at gun shows....Sadly, many people think they have an original, and upon inspection, it is a fake. However be VERY careful about fakes of these . The Chinese are making them now SO well that they look almost identical to the originals down to the fake wear on the grips and correct serial number fonts and placement and Tokyo/Kokura arsenal stamps...Until recently, the Chinese hadn't bothered to fake these NCO swords because there was not enough money in it...Now there is. Ebay used to be full of these NCO fakes, but I have not seen any lately only officer versions which are not aged as well. The quality and aging on the NCO ShinGunto's had gotten so good, I would have been afraid to buy one without a verification and I used to moderate a major Japanese weapons forum.
Damn, is there anything they don't FAKE??? How long have fakes been showing up? I ask to see whether mine might be a fake. I can trace it back about 18 years. I own an antique store and see fakery all the time and never stop learning about them. Thanks for the tips.

kaboku68 | 01-31-2009 11:27 PM
Re: Swords My advice is to find a good aikido instructor or somebody who can teach you iaido. This is how to draw and cut and then resheath. People laugh at swords but during the Sino-Japanese war on kendo instructor took out a Russian post of 17 combatants. They went from cavalry swords to nihonto. Paul Chen's Practical Pro Katana is Chinese made for $250 and doesn't suck for cutting. I have 13 blades(no gimei and no repro crap). I have two Paul Chen blades to mess with. Sincerely, Thomas

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