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platinumdude | 01-05-2009 11:15 PM
What ammo to use for 308? What is a good recommended ammo for a DSA SA58 FAL with 18" barrel. I usually buy federal, I'm not sure what grain to get for target shooting, and for defense loads. I saw a chart on the web of what load to use for different kinds of game, but not for defense. http://www.chuckhawks.com/hunting_bullet_guide1.htm This website suggests a 200-220 grain for brown bear, but not sure if the FAL can handle that size. (not that I will be shooting brown bear any time soon, but was curious). Edit from the federal ammo website 180 grain is good for the brown bear. So for defense a heavy grain is good? But then with the soft point as well?

Argentsum | 01-05-2009 11:45 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Whats the twist rate of your barrel?

platinumdude | 01-05-2009 11:49 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentsum (Post 1497162) Whats the twist rate of your barrel?
I seen a couple of sources say 1:11 inches

CyberGold | 01-05-2009 11:51 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Good choice of rifle. You likely have a 1:12 twist (metric FAL std) so, heavy bullets (over 175gr) won't completly stabilize. Just about any 7.62x51 NATO stamped 147-150 grain surplus FMJ ammo you can find should work fine for defense. Midway has Winchester on sale today. The going rate at gun shows for the cheapest foreign made surplus is about 60 cents a round. You can also shoot commercial 308 but I would stick to the 150 grain range, soft point for hunting. You can try the 180gr for accuracy and find your bear/elk hunting range. There is a slight difference between 7.62x51 and 308 interchangability but nothing to be too concerned about in a military chamber but my understanding is it is not recommended the other way around (ie don't use mil surp iin a commercial 308).

TTAZZMAN | 01-06-2009 12:12 AM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGold (Post 1497174) Good choice of rifle. You likely have a 1:12 twist (metric FAL std) so, heavy bullets (over 175gr) won't completly stabilize. Just about any 7.62x51 NATO stamped 147-150 grain surplus FMJ ammo you can find should work fine for defense. Midway has Winchester on sale today. The going rate at gun shows for the cheapest foreign made surplus is about 60 cents a round. You can also shoot commercial 308 but I would stick to the 150 grain range, soft point for hunting. You can try the 180gr for accuracy and find your bear/elk hunting range. There is a slight difference between 7.62x51 and 308 interchangability but nothing to be too concerned about in a military chamber but my understanding is it is not recommended the other way around (ie don't use mil surp iin a commercial 308).
do some research on the interchangability of 308w vs 7.62x51 and make your own decisions(wanted to keep this post short) but i think you will find after researching.. you can use either 7.62 or 308w ammo in a gun chambered for 308w (tighter head space) using 308w ammo in a gun chambered for 7.62 can create some issues that you might want to research (looser head space streaches the shoulders) Its been my personal opinion...i can use either one in each chamber BUT any 308w ammo that has been shot in a 7.62 chamber should never be reloaded THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION what ever you choose to do would be at your own discression and risk i am not a ammo expert and not responsible for errors in this statement

SilverCity | 01-06-2009 12:16 AM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? 1 Attachment(s) For target shooting and defense...what your FAL was designed to shoot. http://www.jgsales.com/product_info....oducts_id/3006

Argentsum | 01-06-2009 12:24 AM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Shilen Rifles, Inc say .308 - 8" for bullets heavier than 220gr. - 10" for bullets up to 220gr. - 12" for bullets up to 170gr. - 14" for bullets up to 168gr. - 15" for bullets up to 150gr. - 17" for bullets up to 125 gr. Berger Bullets, say .308 CAL 155gr Very Low Drag Recommended twist rate is 1/14 .308 CAL 168gr Very Low Drag Recommended twist rate is 1/13 .308 CAL 175gr Very Low Drag Recommended twist rate is 1/13 .308 CAL 185gr Very Low Drag Recommended twist rate is 1/12 .308 CAL 190gr Very Low Drag Recommended twist rate is 1/12 .308 CAL 210gr Very Low Drag Recommended twist rate is 1/11 Which is nice but the tolerances are much broader then the charts recommends. A 1/12" twist will let you shoot any commercial .308 round without issue. I imagine such things become important when shooting in competition or plinking at targets at very long range. Experiment with various ammos and find out what your rifle likes. Wasn't most of the 7.62 X 51 mm milsurp stuff 147gr?

CyberGold | 01-06-2009 12:37 AM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Looks like I got the interchangability part backwards - sorry my mistake - it looks to be like TAZZMAN said. I think there is 150gr out there but a lot of the milsurp is 147. here is some more discussion on it. http://www.fo.com/cr-files/cr-308.htm here is a more relevant quote from http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html While the 7.62mm NATO cartridge has a maximum chamber pressure of approximately 50,000 pounds per square inch (psi), in the SAAMI book the .308 Winchester has a MAP (maximum average product) pressure of approximately 62,000 psi* (each by conformal transducer measurements, and therefore comparable). This is not to say that all .308 Winchester loads will develop such pressures, merely that they would be within manufacturing tolerances if they did so. Firing .308 Winchester ammunition in a firearm specifically chambered for the 7.62mm NATO risks damage to the firearm and injury to the shooter. A 7.62 NATO Go gauge is .003-inch longer than a .308 Winchester Go gauge. The 7.62 NATO NoGo is also longer, to the tune of .004-inch. It's entirely possible to chamber and have an accident with a .308 Winchester round in a rifle that would be safe for 7.62 X 51mm. A chamber in 7.62 that could barely close on a 7.62 NoGo could swallow a .308 Field gauge. Add to this the fact that .308 Winchester brass, being of commercial manufacture, is much thinner than that of the 7.62 NATO, and expands alot more, could possibly lead to casehead separation. theres more out there on the subject

SilverCity | 01-06-2009 12:45 AM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? From Wikipedia: "The 7.62x51mm NATO is a rifle cartridge developed in the 1940's and 50's as a standard for small arms among NATO countries. Specifications for the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge are not identical to the commercial .308 Winchester though they are safely interchangeable." (according to SAAMI)

Argentsum | 01-06-2009 12:52 AM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? For what its worth, I shoot a bolt action .308 with a 11" twist using 180gr. I couldn't tell you if the bullet was stabilized (too small and moving too fast), but they group well on paper so its what I use.

farscott | 01-06-2009 07:24 AM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? If the load is grouping well, the bullet is stabilized. I shoot 180-grain loads out of my 700 with its 11.25" twist rate.

The Argent Dragon | 01-06-2009 09:05 AM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGold (Post 1497174) Just about any 7.62x51 NATO stamped 147-150 grain surplus FMJ ammo you can find should work fine for defense.
Yep, it's what I use in my DSA FAL rifle. :ok: http://www.jgsales.com/product_info....oducts_id/3006

eat_beef | 01-06-2009 09:20 AM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? For all practical purposes, 308W and 7.62MM are interchangeable. That said, you don't want to shoot really heavy bullets (above 175s) or "Light magnum", "Heavy Magnum" or "Hyper Velocity" loads in a gas gun. You may be able to get away with it by adjusting your gas valve, but why bother? Get the cheapest milsurp FMJ you can find for practice (except for 90s production OFV Indian, stay away from it). If you must have something besides FMJ, I absolutely LOVE the Hornady TAP and Interbond SST, in either the 150s or 168s. These bullets are dang near a perfect balance of expansion/penetration for a 308 and small light game like deer, or a similar sized two legger.

The Argent Dragon | 01-06-2009 09:45 AM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? FWIW - that link I provided above to J&G Sales is for British surp ammo which is 144-grain.

Bx3 | 01-06-2009 12:10 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? http://m14tfl.com/upload/showthread.php?t=23308 Good place to check on ammo price/availability. Gunshows used to be a good place to look but lately have had jacked up prices. As for bullet weight, I would stay away from a regular diet of anything over 168 gr in a NATO MBR. The FAL is already at it's design limits with the standard 7.62x51 ammo up to 150 gr bullets. The heavier the bullet, the higher the pressure, the higher the pressure, the shorter the life span on your rifle. (generally).

Fullpower | 01-06-2009 01:16 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? the answer to the original question starts and ENDS thus: 7.62 NATO

Bx3 | 01-06-2009 01:38 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 1497999) the answer to the original question starts and ENDS thus: 7.62 NATO
Yup! Pretty much, end of discussion.

EireGoBragh | 01-06-2009 01:47 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Anyone know the twist rate of a 91?

rad | 01-06-2009 02:12 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? For my PTR-91 RH 1-12 twist http://www.ptr91.com/product_pages/ptr91kfm4.html

Bx3 | 01-06-2009 02:30 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Quote:
Originally Posted by EireGoBragh (Post 1498042) Anyone know the twist rate of a 91?
The HK 91 is 1 in 12 but the HK 911 is 1 in 11 according to the manual.

EireGoBragh | 01-06-2009 03:01 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? thanks for the info......

mayhem | 01-06-2009 03:59 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 1497999) the answer to the original question starts and ENDS thus: 7.62 NATO
I agree.... A lot of commercial ammo has a softer primer and the risk of slam fire exists. I'm not saying that it will occur, but tread in that area with full knowledge that I just mentioned it to you.

platinumdude | 01-06-2009 09:20 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1497206) For target shooting and defense...what your FAL was designed to shoot.
Does that older stuff work ok? And how much longer can it be kept?

SilverCity | 01-06-2009 09:33 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 1498875) Does that older stuff work ok? And how much longer can it be kept?
I have shot 40-year-old Lake City 7.62 Nato out of several different FALs...with fine results. Accurate and reliable. I have also shot plenty of that British Radway Green 7.62 Nato...again accurate and reliable. Quality ammunition, properly stored in airtight G.I. ammo cans, in a cool and dry environment, should last for DECADES...

platinumdude | 01-06-2009 11:29 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1498897) I have shot 40-year-old Lake City 7.62 Nato out of several different FALs...with fine results. Accurate and reliable. I have also shot plenty of that British Radway Green 7.62 Nato...again accurate and reliable. Quality ammunition, properly stored in airtight G.I. ammo cans, in a cool and dry environment, should last for DECADES...
I'm going to look at my local gun store to see if they have brass 7.62 Nato at a reasonable price, and if not then I will order online.

SilverCity | 01-06-2009 11:55 PM
Re: What ammo to use for 308? 1 Attachment(s) Here is NEW, RELOADABLE .308...almost as cheap, but some of the best you will be able to find for your FAL http://www.ammoman.com/webstore_308.htm 7.62 WINCHESTER - 147 GRAIN COPPER CLAD STEEL JACKET BULLET - LEAD CORE THIS AMMO HAS THE NATO HEADSTAMP MADE IN USA WITH RELOADABLE, BOXER PRIMED BRASS Muzzle Velocity: 2,800 fps - Muzzle Energy: 2,562 ft lbs FREE SHIPPING $149- 200 rounds ( ONE CASE ) DELIVERED $345- 500 rounds DELIVERED $650- 1,000 rounds DELIVERED

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