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Lars Ragnarsson | 01-22-2009 01:25 AM
Response from Senator on Gun Control A few days ago, I emailed our Democratic senator about my concerns over the 2nd Amendment (our Republican senator is retiring, or I'd have hit him, too). Anyway, I told him that the surge in firearm and ammunition sales should be sending a message to him, his colleagues in Congress, and Obama, and that any end-runs around the 2nd Amendment by his pals Chuckie Schummer, Ted Kennedy, et. al. will not go unnoticed. Such "end runs" would include ammo and firearms taxes, microstamping requirements, attempts to close gun show "loopholes," etc. Here's the cookie cutter response: Quote:
Dear Mr. Ragnarsson: Thank you for contacting me regarding your concerns about gun control. I support the constitutional right to bear arms. I grew up on a ranch in the Florida countryside and have been a hunter since I was a boy. I also support efforts to reduce gun violence and promote firearms safety. We should close the gun show loophole and take other steps to ensure that felons are not allowed to buy firearms. Running background checks on prospective gun purchasers is a practical way to ensure that guns do not fall into the wrong hands without unreasonably burdening citizens' 2nd amendment rights. You can be sure that I will keep your thoughts in mind whenever firearms issues are considered by the Senate. I appreciate your letter. Your communications helps me serve you better.
This corroborates what's on the White House website - they'll slowly strangle the 2nd Amendment through "commonsense" laws designed to keep everybody safe from guns. Everybody's safety is more important than individual freedoms. I'm going to email him back, and point out that these measures to "close loopholes" and improve safety are exactly the type of thing I was referring to, and are nothing more than thinly disguised attempts to ban all private firearm sales and create a defacto registration system. What do you bet I get the same response?

silverblood | 01-22-2009 01:55 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control This is typical of senators and congressmen and politicians at all levels. They don't listen to what you say, but only parrot back to you their own position whether it is sensible in the context of your comments or not. It is why I stopped writing to my reps and senators years even before I became totally anti-State. Their idea of representation is to push their agenda regardless of what their constituents want. After all; they are "leaders"; they know better than you do what is good for you. Their responses are worthless. They themselves are worse than worthless as human beings.

pot_dragon | 01-22-2009 04:09 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control what is this "gun show loophole"? I dont understand what they mean. If they mean one person can only buy so much at one gun show, say a limit of 3 guns...i say fine. if it means a 3 -5 day waiting period to pick up your gun/run background checks, its livable. what other "loophole" are they or you referring to? are you against background checks or waiting periods? In a perfect world, the 2nd amendment wouldnt be infringed upon, period. But we do not live in a perfect world, we live in a world with mentally unbalanced people who like to kill other people. I hate to say it, but if a 5 day waiting period makes a psycho kill 10 people with with a car instead of a gun, thats a win for gun owners. As gun owners, we not only have to defend our rights, but also promote a good image, and make guns "friendly" to society, not just the realm of paranoids stocking up for "the big one", rednecks shooting animals for fun or young black gangsta kids with blinged out nines shooting each other over sneakers. So sometimes, as shitty as it, we have to make some concessions. straw buyers at gun shows are a legitimate problem, as are people who need a gun "right now!". more legislation is never a good thing, but if it keeps them off our backs by having limits per day + a waiting period but no further ban on "assault" weapons, I say thats a good compromise. But beyond all that, silverblood is completely right.

extremist | 01-22-2009 06:02 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control "Gun show loophole" is a misleading term preferred by the likes of Swinestein and Scummer to paint gun shows in a negative light. Gun shows are a convenient way for private in-state buyers and sellers to get together, but legal private sales can occur via any other means. Neither Obummer nor his ilk are likely to suffer sprained ankles from rushing to correct this misperception, especialy since their kind devised the deception in the first place.

GoldWampum | 01-22-2009 08:01 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
I also support efforts to reduce gun violence and promote firearms safety. We should close the gun show loophole and take other steps to ensure that felons are not allowed to buy firearms. Running background checks on prospective gun purchasers is a practical way to ensure that guns do not fall into the wrong hands without unreasonably burdening citizens' 2nd amendment rights.
Ask him how "shall not be infringed" became "without unreasonably burdening". See what the cookie cutter says.

ruprick | 01-22-2009 09:02 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control I'm probably one of the biggest gun enthusiasts here....I have a spreadsheet so I can remember what all I have....been a Life Member of the NRA for 20 years (the NRA is not perfect....but they are 3 million strong and represent my voice fairly well....). We have to be pratical and reasonable. I do not think it is unreasonable that an instant background check be performed. I do not want to see some kook or criminal walking in and walking out with a gun with no check at all.....I do not think that is reasonable. This is just my opinion.... What we do need to guard against is the slippery slope of gun control......if you are not a criminal or insane,.....should be able to own as many and whatever kind of gun you like..... I know it is difficult to trust our government....but who/how else can we have a reasonable system to prevent dangerous sales? In Michigan, we now have CCW permits that if renewed after July 2005.....you meet the requirements of not needing an instant background check at time of sale. The renewal is every 5 years. For those of you in states that do not have background checks.....it only takes about 1 minute.....the dealer just calls waits while it is performed...very fast. Checking and verification is perfectly fine and reasonable......try taking them away....that is when you have a revolution....there can be no good reason to disarm the population.

Twisted Avatar | 01-22-2009 09:12 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1524516) We have to be pratical and reasonable. I do not think it is unreasonable that an instant background check be performed. I do not want to see some kook or criminal walking in and walking out with a gun with no check at all.....I do not think that is reasonable. .
The Criminal element would be a NON issue if the perp understood that everybody and every home he is thinking about might have a gun and bullet with his name on it. That would cure the problem right there. T

The Argent Dragon | 01-22-2009 09:12 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control For contacting Congressmen, PHONE calls are much more effective than E-mails. Just an observation. :wink:

igorthesmall | 01-22-2009 10:09 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1524516) I'm probably one of the biggest gun enthusiasts here..
You may think that, but if you think adding "reasonable" restrictions to gun sales is OK, then most people will not agree with that. Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1524516) We have to be pratical and reasonable. I do not think it is unreasonable that an instant background check be performed. I do not want to see some kook or criminal walking in and walking out with a gun with no check at all.....I do not think that is reasonable.
Prohibitions dont work. Adding instant background checks to all gun sales wouldnt prevent criminals from getting guns, it would just allow government to keep a registry of all guns owned by law abiding citizens. England doesnt allow guns at all, yet criminals still have guns. Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1524516) This is just my opinion.... What we do need to guard against is the slippery slope of gun control......if you are not a criminal or insane,.....should be able to own as many and whatever kind of gun you like..... I know it is difficult to trust our government....but who/how else can we have a reasonable system to prevent dangerous sales?
We cant prevent dangerous sales. Criminals are going to get guns no matter what we do, just like they are able to get other illegal things, like drugs, hookers, etc. Allowing government more control over our lives in exchange for a plan that is proven not to work is not a good idea in my opinion.

SLV>GLD | 01-22-2009 10:16 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Thank you, igor, for putting a bullet into that rhetoric. I can only hope that Ruprick has enough sense to see the futility you are pointing out. Most people do not, they clap their hands to their ears and scream "lalalala". SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED, love it or hate it, it's the effing LAW.

Roland30 | 01-22-2009 10:25 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control I stopped writing and calling because once you do enough of it (I didnt go anywhere near going overboard) you will see nomatter how polite or how well you understand X Y and Z laws or whatever it simply does not matter to them. Because you are not putting $$$ in their pockets or holding something even bigger over their heads...your issue does not matter to them. It dosent touch them personaly. You wield no real power over them...l mentally put politicians in the same catigory as your average marauding scum of the earth jihadi type....they only understand 2 basic things....money and the possibility of death/imprisonment ect... If you cannot put that type of power over them in some form then your options are very limited. Not saying it's a complete waste of time....who knows...maybe sombody will get something positive accomplished. I'd honestly like to see that happen. From my experiance trying to wake people up or educate them even a little...is time much better spent and far more productive.

elroy | 01-22-2009 10:27 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control No amount of gun restricting laws is going to limit criminal violence. Study history, study the states with the most restrictive laws, study the U.K. and Australia. Since guns have been virtually banned in the U.K. gun violence has skyrocketed. The cops there are now carrying weapons and wearing bullet proof vests. The cops in the U.K. don't understand why their lives are in danger since guns have been banned. This goes back to the old adage, "an armed society is a polite society". I live in Indiana near the Illinois border. Our county sheriff told me the criminals in Illinois stay on their side of the state line because it is to dangerous for them in Indiana and they know it. Indiana has CCW and Illinois doesn't. The "gunshow loophole" is about ending private sales. It has nothing at all to do with gunshows.

FireMattMillen | 01-22-2009 10:41 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1524516) I'm probably one of the biggest gun enthusiasts here....I have a spreadsheet so I can remember what all I have....been a Life Member of the NRA for 20 years (the NRA is not perfect....but they are 3 million strong and represent my voice fairly well....). We have to be pratical and reasonable. I do not think it is unreasonable that an instant background check be performed. I do not want to see some kook or criminal walking in and walking out with a gun with no check at all.....I do not think that is reasonable. This is just my opinion.... What we do need to guard against is the slippery slope of gun control......if you are not a criminal or insane,.....should be able to own as many and whatever kind of gun you like..... I know it is difficult to trust our government....but who/how else can we have a reasonable system to prevent dangerous sales? In Michigan, we now have CCW permits that if renewed after July 2005.....you meet the requirements of not needing an instant background check at time of sale. The renewal is every 5 years. For those of you in states that do not have background checks.....it only takes about 1 minute.....the dealer just calls waits while it is performed...very fast. Checking and verification is perfectly fine and reasonable......try taking them away....that is when you have a revolution....there can be no good reason to disarm the population.
Here is my problem with "instant background check" - they call in the gun's make, model, and serial number! At least that's what they did for my long guns - and we both live in Michigan, so I assume they do the same for you. And for my handgun, I'm sure that's registered with the county and state ten times over. My solution: have a small note on a person's drivers license/state ID that states he/she is eligible to buy guns. Simply show the ID to the gun seller, and make the purchase. This way, the government doesn't know who is buying/owning guns.

The Argent Dragon | 01-22-2009 10:51 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy (Post 1524640) No amount of gun restricting laws is going to limit criminal violence.
Exactly. :coolbeer: Quote:
This goes back to the old adage, "an armed society is a polite society".
See Switzerland. :wink:

ohioarmedneutrality | 01-22-2009 10:54 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Sorry, but I'm in the "no restrictions whatsoever" camp. It's scary how I'm becoming more and more libertarian as I get older. How the heck did that happen?

Tecumseh | 01-22-2009 10:58 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control At least Senator Brown responds. I'm not a fan, never voted for him and probably never will but seems like he responds quickly - maybe not the way you or I like but I never got a response from DeWine or Voinovich when I contatcted them.

Twisted Avatar | 01-22-2009 11:04 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 1524682) See Switzerland. :wink:
"The Swiss are well armed and enjoy great freedom." Machiavelli T

SLV>GLD | 01-22-2009 11:07 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1524703) "The Swiss are well armed and enjoy great freedom." Machiavelli T
Meh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...in_Switzerland I seriously looked at moving to Switzerland and their gun laws dissuaded me quite a bit.

Twisted Avatar | 01-22-2009 11:11 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1524709) Meh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...in_Switzerland I seriously looked at moving to Switzerland and their gun laws dissuaded me quite a bit.
What part of it being MANDATORY that a firearm be in each home and you MUST qualify with that firearm yearly are you not liking??? T

GoldWampum | 01-22-2009 11:15 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1524528) The Criminal element would be a NON issue if the perp understood that everybody and every home he is thinking about might have a gun and bullet with his name on it. That would cure the problem right there. T
Much better than nosey government and waiting periods IMO.

SLV>GLD | 01-22-2009 11:16 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1524719) What part of it being MANDATORY that a firearm be in each home and you MUST qualify with that firearm yearly are you not liking??? T
Well, there are several facets but I'll reach into the hat and pull this one out: Quote:
Most types of ammunition are available for commercial sale, including full metal jacket bullet calibres for military-issue weapons; hollow point rounds are only permitted for hunters. Ammunition sales are registered only at the point of sale by recording the buyer's name in a bound book.

SLV>GLD | 01-22-2009 11:19 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Orrrr........ Quote:
To carry firearms in public or outdoors (and for an individual who is a member of the militia carrying a firearm other than his Army-issue personal weapons off-duty), a person must have a Waffentragschein (weapon carrying permit), which in most cases is issued only to private citizens working in occupations such as security.

Twisted Avatar | 01-22-2009 11:32 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1524727) Well, there are several facets but I'll reach into the hat and pull this one out: Most types of ammunition are available for commercial sale, including full metal jacket bullet calibres for military-issue weapons; hollow point rounds are only permitted for hunters. Okay so when I walk in to the shop I will don my sportmens hat...not the biggest crime. Ammunition sales are registered only at the point of sale by recording the buyer's name in a bound book. That will burst into flames on cue the minute the Gubbermint tries to collect that information in a central data base
I can live with those type of Gun laws........... glady. T

wallew | 01-22-2009 11:32 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Let me help you folks out here. "Closing the GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE" means CLOSING GUN SHOWS. Eventually they will do the 'closing gun shops' loophole. That means closing gun shops. From that point on, you WILL be required to go TO THE GOVERNMENT for your guns. Guess what? YOU DON'T NEED A GUN! WHY? BECAUSE DA GUBMINT WILL PROTECT YOU! About the ONLY thing these buffoons will eventually respect is a long drop on a short rope. Preferably in public. Say like from the town squares largest tree. Short of that, expect ALL your stuff to be confiscated. PERIOD. Don't like that? TUFF CHEET. You literally have only one real choice in the end. It's the same choice our founding fathers chose. To fight. To die. To lose all. IN THE NAME OF LIBERTY AND FREEDOM. Too bad most here won't realize that until it's TOO LATE. It's like so many family members in my clan. They figure the 'JIT' delivery system will ALWAYS deliver food to the store. EVERY TIME they turn on the light switch, the lights will work, the water will flow, the natural gas will burn. GUESS WHAT? Not going to end up that way. Go study history. There has NEVER been a free society without the populace being armed to the teeth. You Tube
You Tube
This lady says it all. The middle of this video IS WHERE WE ARE GOING. The part where she says the 2nd Amendment isn't about duck hunting. IT'S ABOUT US BEING ABLE TO PROTECT OURSELVES AGAINST POLITICIANS.

Twisted Avatar | 01-22-2009 11:37 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1524769) There has NEVER been a free society without the populace being armed to the teeth.
MARK AND REMEBER. T

SLV>GLD | 01-22-2009 11:40 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1524768) I can live with those type of Gun laws........... glady. T
I guess I just like simplicity. Like, shall not be infringed simplicity. I think you fail to read between the lines. There is likely no 9mm HP or 380 HP or 32 HP. Maybe not even 45 HP. Depends on what they call a hunting round, you see? I can have spendy HP but only for long-arms and only FMJ for my pistols that I cannot carry for personal protection unless I'm a rent-a-cop? Of course, I am wildly guessticulating here as I haven't fully researched any of it. I just initially balk at all the rules and webs of code. Shall not be infringed works for my simpleton mind.

wallew | 01-22-2009 11:45 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control You Tube
You Tube
This one pretty much says it all. You Tube
You Tube
"You can't yell 'fire' in a theater'. UH, HELLO - YOU CAN IF IT'S ON FIRE. You Tube
You Tube
Busted on the manufacture, sale and posession of hand guns. You Tube
You Tube
Sensible gun control laws. You Tube
You Tube
Two realities.

Twisted Avatar | 01-22-2009 11:54 AM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1524784) I guess I just like simplicity. Like, shall not be infringed simplicity. I think you fail to read between the lines. There is likely no 9mm HP or 380 HP or 32 HP. Maybe not even 45 HP. Depends on what they call a hunting round, you see? I can have spendy HP but only for long-arms and only FMJ for my pistols that I cannot carry for personal protection unless I'm a rent-a-cop? Of course, I am wildly guessticulating here as I haven't fully researched any of it. I just initially balk at all the rules and webs of code. Shall not be infringed works for my simpleton mind.
I can see the point you are making now. understood. T

NOOB | 01-22-2009 12:42 PM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Waiting periods--- What if????? Pot Dragon Calls me up and says" Hey NOOB your a f++kstick and I am going to kill your ass today at 5 pm" Guess what? I call the police and they tell me there is nothing they can do until Pot dragon actually assaults me. ( ask a cop and they will tell you that). I sure wish the waiting period is 2 sec's not 3 days. Gunshows, face to face etc. You cannot stop a mentally unstable person from carrying out acts by filling out forms, its just another ploy (that sounds good on paper) to get a registration and give all control to the government. I think you should be able to purchase any firearm you please at any time. Including machine guns, subguns, every gun. If you use them to unjustly harm someone else you should be punished severly and swiftly. If we are making laws just for fun lets make a law that every citizen must own at least one mbr and ammo to go with it. The country would be a better and safer country.

IGrok | 01-22-2009 12:59 PM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Ragnarsson (Post 1524215) A few days ago, I emailed our Democratic senator about my concerns over the 2nd Amendment (our Republican senator is retiring, or I'd have hit him, too). Anyway, I told him that the surge in firearm and ammunition sales should be sending a message to him, his colleagues in Congress, and Obama, and that any end-runs around the 2nd Amendment by his pals Chuckie Schummer, Ted Kennedy, et. al. will not go unnoticed. Such "end runs" would include ammo and firearms taxes, microstamping requirements, attempts to close gun show "loopholes," etc.
Let's see... that would be senator Bill Nelson. He is also my senator and grew up not to far from me. This guy is not a leader, he is a follower. He will go wherever Reid et. al. want to go.

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Zusn | 01-22-2009 03:50 PM
Re: Response from Senator on Gun Control As a Swiss citizen, I can tell you that Switzerland isn't all that it's cracked up to be. Several decades ago, maybe, but not now. The socialists have taken over years ago and the law of the land can be absolutely brutal. Any car enthusiasts here? Forget about being allowed to make any modification to your vehicle! How it comes from the factory is how it stays!! How about sitting down with the tax man at the beginning of the year so he can estimate your income for that year. Then, you have the pleasure of paying your taxes at the beginning of the year on what they think you're going to make!!! How about mandatory military service? What about mandatory retirement? The list goes on and on. America is next. TPTB won't be happy until they have their socialist paradise in place, just like the rest of the western world.

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