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CyberGold | 10-23-2009 11:19 PM
AR Pistol Upper Questions I'm going to the Tucson show tomorrow with the intent on getting a upper for the new pistol lower I built. Checking Midway for parts to build one I see that it will cost at least $500 for basic components. Rock River sells a complete basic A3 upper for $490 so if I can stay in that range (or less) I could be on the range as soon as Sunday. However there are a few things I am undecided on as I haven't had or shot or even researched too much on this subject. I have Bushmaster & DPMS products and have had 0 issues with either. I am not going to pay a big premium for custom names. But I also don't want to get problematic no name junk. Which is better 7.5" or 10.5-11.5" lengths? Any legal issues with 11.5" length? Do free float handguards add much to performance? How are the MOE guards by magpull? Would a rail gas block be preferred over an A2 sight? Alum or steel? What brands to stay away from? any other helpful tips would be appreciated.

new money | 10-24-2009 12:55 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions I have Colt USA and Colt Canada 11.5 inch A3 uppers with FA bolt carriers used I could ship to you for $650.

CyberGold | 10-24-2009 03:18 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions I guess this thread jusneeded more time to develop Sorry

GRP | 10-24-2009 05:15 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions If thats how you feel than go hang out there. Don't bash just because you haven't had an answer that you like in 17 hours. Hmmmm, sounds like you already know what you are going to do and had to bash the site because no one is up or interested in what your doing. Relax CyberGold,,,,,,,,,,, You are doing something most people here wouldn't and haven't. Keep us posted with this, I'm interested as how this will work out. Thanks, GRP

NOOB | 10-24-2009 06:45 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions Never shot one. A good conversation piece but probably not real useful. An sbr, thats another story. Go with the short barrel, if your going pistol go small.

CyberGold | 10-24-2009 09:22 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions Sorry, I got a little frustrated - When I see 50 replies to some inane post like "which bazooka should I buy", I sorta expect to get a couple of informative answers to my questions. I stopped going to arf about 7 years ago. I think there are a lot of knowlegable gunnies on this site, thats why I asked for opinions here. Like you said, the AK pistol threads were of interest to many. I decided on a pistol because it is easier to obtain and cheaper than a SBR and a 10-11" bbl is for all practical purposes, very much like a SBR, only without the stock (the buffer tube can act somewhat like one). A 7" bbl however would be easier to shoot at arms length like a pistol. So I am undecide and wondered what others thought of the pros/cons. I am leaning toward the 10-11" length. I get the impression that the 10.5" bbls are marketed toward pistols and 11.5" are for SBR's - different mfg seem to offer one or the other but not both.Am a little puzzled by the 1" difference and wonder why. I also think the specialty handguards look cool but unless there is some overwhelming functionality advantage, I'm not particularly interested in them because of what most of them cost. The Magpul MOE is a variant that isn't too expensive and adds a different look. I don't know what advantage a free float tube would add to this short a bbl - heat buffer for the hand ??? No, there is no feely touchy gun show report. I stayed home and painted a new room addition. I had planned on trying the different lengths on my lower to see how they felt, but the 200 mile trip din't appeal to my mood this AM. I will probably order one off the net or find a FSBO - thats why I asked about what to stay away from. Seems there are some out there being called a Bushmaster but have 10.5" bbls (BM sells 11.5" bbls) so are probably "put togethers" of lesser quality. What other pitfalls are there?

eat_beef | 10-24-2009 10:14 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions I don't know squat about pistols, never even fired one, but I know SBRs (10.5-11.5) are VERY blasty. I wouldn't want anything to do with a 7". Personally, I don't see any tactical reason for an AR (or AK) pistol. Of course, cool is cool.:biggrin: But a carbine is what, 6 inches longer? Remember when pricing, most uppers don't include the bolt/carrier/charging handle/sights. And stay the heck away from Vulcan/Hesse/Blackthorne. Mod 1 and M&A aren't much better.

CyberGold | 10-24-2009 10:28 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions Thanks for those names. The RRA for 790 does include BCG as does my parts estimate. Most other sites sell uppers for much more $$$ w/o the BCG, as you mention. Ah yes, blast - hadn't considered that too much since I'm fairly deaf. I suppose the 7" would be misery to the ears. I have a bushy 14.5 w/ AK brake and it too is very loud (but then so is my 500 S&W Mag). I do wear muffs when firing those two.

TTAZZMAN | 10-25-2009 01:29 AM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions I have a Keltec plr-16 and a Olympic arms oa-93 the keltec has about a 10" barrel and the Oly has a 6.5" barrel both 223 both are very accurate be well prepared for a LOT of muzzle blast they both produce at least a 12"+ fireball at the muzzle and are very very loud i fire both of mine as you would a pistol .....so the muzzle blast is further away..... if i were building a "sbr" type with the buffer tube "stock" and intended to use it shouldered like a sbr i would be sure i put on a forward directing compensator or flash suppressor to try to get some of this muzzle blast out of your face.

CyberGold | 10-25-2009 09:44 AM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions I know they are different designs but how does the arms-length balance compare 6" to 10" ? Is the 10" so muzzle heavy it causes aiming or arm fatigue issues? Would you think a 3 prong phantom FH would be a good choice or ???

TTAZZMAN | 10-25-2009 11:27 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions i really cant tell that the barrel length really makes a noticable difference in the guns balence..... on the other hand...the mag capacity makes a huge difference in the guns balence i tend to use 10 or 20rnders when i shoot them like a pistol IE arm extended etc. (yes they get nose heavy) i will follow that i dont shoot these enough to really get into the balence logistics of the guns ..they are more of a twilight fireworks croud please type of gun...but i think they would be a very very effective anti-personel guns in a shtf situation....small..acurate to 100yds..good penetrators...common ammo definitely need a hand guard on the barrels as they do get smokin hot quick

Tomsawyer | 10-26-2009 04:57 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGold (Post 1989584) I am leaning toward the 10-11" length. I get the impression that the 10.5" bbls are marketed toward pistols and 11.5" are for SBR's - different mfg seem to offer one or the other but not both.Am a little puzzled by the 1" difference and wonder why.
The only company I know that makes a 11.5 is bravocompany. The reason why is listed on a post the owner made over on arfcom. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...f=138&t=174764 Basically if I had to choose one or the other, I would probably prefer the bravocompany upper at 11.5. My second choice would be LMT in 10.5. The complete upper is only ~$700. You said the other choices you looked at were $500. Personally, paying the extra $200 is worth it for an extremely high quality gun. Either bravocompany or LMT are top of the line, tier 1 manufacturers.

CyberGold | 10-26-2009 09:30 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions Thanks for the info,and the link. The reason for the extra 1" makes sense. (anyone make an adjustable gas block like on a FAL)? Bushmaster lists a 11.5" on their website for $695, Del-Ton has one for... GET THIS.... $405 With BCG (makes me scared to try but have heard positive things about them). BCM has an upper for $475 sans BCG and guards. Those will add up to at least $150 more so on the cheap (std guards) total around $625. I have always heard good things about Rock River and their basic 10.5" model is $490 with BCG - of course options increase that quickly which is why I was asking about gas block and handguard choices. I am inclined to use a rail gas block instead of std front sight. Are there any issues with the RRA?

Tomsawyer | 10-26-2009 09:43 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGold (Post 1992656) Thanks for the info,and the link. Bushmaster also lists a 11.5" on their website for $695 BCM has an upper for $475 sans BCG and guards. Those will add up to at least 150 more so on the cheap (guards) total around 625. The reason for the extra 1" makes sense. (anyone make an adjustable gas block like on a FAL)? I have always heard good things about Rock River and their basic model is $490 with BCG - of course options increae that quickly which is why I was asking about gas block and handguard choices. I am inclied to use a rail gas block instead of std front sight. Are there any issues with the RRA?
Noveske has a switchblock, not sure if that is the same as the FAL, I dont really know a whole lot about FALs. Its probably more than you want to spend, close to $200. RRA makes pretty good stuff as well. Its probably 95% as good as the top of the line stuff, and honestly the vast majority of shooters would never know the difference. You cant really go wrong with their stuff.

eat_beef | 10-26-2009 10:29 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions Magpul makes a switchblock as well. That said, I think they're for supressors, not for making the thing run. BCM is top of the line.

new money | 10-27-2009 09:13 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions I have several SBR's /pistol 223 guns ( Sig 556 -2, Colt 3, HK 3). I have several Colt A3, FA bolt, M4 feed ramp decomissioned LE SBR uppers ( Colt USA and Colt Canada)with 11.5 inch barrels. Take a look at the Colt commando SBR and you will see a well balanced unit with 2750 fpm out the barrel. The barrel is light weight and the unit is well balanced. Colt has military components in the LE models. Yes they are overpriced and yes the springs last longer and the hammer does not break. The unit is the same size as a HK MP5 A3 extended. Is a pistol a viable option? I like the RRA long tube lower. However, I can FTF transfer a rifle but not a pistol without a FFL. Yes a SBR has BATF, FBI and Sheriff sign-off ( unless you have a trust or LLC) and is a major PIA to get. I do not sell my SBR's or rifle caliber pistols and I enjoy both. When you go SBR and rifle caliber pistols you have opened up a new door. You then must get a silencer(s). Did you know there is a Saiga SBR with silencer (very very cool)! Those reading this will not understand the joy of shooting a MP5 silenced or a AR SBR with a flame enhancer (real crowd pleaser). I have handled DPMS and Bushmaster. However, I am a snob and prefer Colt ( actually Colt maintains resale better, has a proven market share and has proven reliability). Actually I have 2 Sig 556 pistols and they have a very short barrel and gas piston. On short very barrels there may be riliability enhancement with a piston. I use 11.5 inches on the AR platform minimum for SA and FA without a problem ( keep it clean, less parts than piston to go wrong). Very important, make sure you get the M4 feed ramps!!!!! Also, the market is soft now but the future ( 2012) for these toys are uncertain. So the rules of the game may change at any time.

tulsamal | 10-28-2009 11:54 AM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions Saw this one online. Built using a Spikes lower. http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/680...olleftside.jpg Not my gun. From this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...=429526&page=1 Gregg

CyberGold | 10-28-2009 05:17 PM
Re: AR Pistol Upper Questions Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsamal (Post 1995143) Saw this one online. Built using a Spikes lower. Gregg
I saw that.... They do be sexy ... don't they. I'm analyzing the various options and suppliers now vs building one myself from parts (won't be the first time... or second or third or fourth ....). Seems like rails, muzzle attachments and anything with a designer name jumps the price up fast. At the moment I am leaning toward a BCM or RRA or Bushmaster Also I am trying to find reviews of little known Del-Ton - cheapest upper on the net and nothing but good reviews from forum users.

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