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- - Starbucks and Open Carry - Stores Land in Gun-Control Crossfire (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=453107)

Goldfinger007 | 03-04-2010 08:43 AM
Starbucks and Open Carry - Stores Land in Gun-Control Crossfire Stores Land in Gun-Control Crossfire (Video in this link) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...toWhatsNewsTop By VANESSA O'CONNELL And JULIE JARGON Starbucks Corp. and some other chain stores in the U.S. are finding themselves caught in the middle of a firearms debate, as gun-control advocates go up against a burgeoning campaign by gun owners to carry holstered pistols in public places. The "open carry" movement, in which gun owners carry unconcealed handguns as they go about their everyday business, is loosely organized around the country but has been gaining traction in recent months. Gun-control advocates have been pushing to quash the movement, including by petitioning the Starbucks coffee chain to ban guns on its premises. Anti-gun activists gathered at the original Starbucks in Seattle to push retailers like the coffee chain to ban customers from openly carrying guns, WSJ's Nick Wingfield reports. Journal Community Businesses have the final say on their property. But the ones that don't opt to ban guns�such as Starbucks�have become parade grounds of sorts for open-carry advocates. Starbucks on Wednesday, while bemoaning being thrust into the debate, defended its long-standing policy of complying with state open-carry weapons laws, in part by stating that its baristas, or "partners," could be harmed if the stores were to ban guns. The chain said that in the 43 states where open carry is legal, it has about 4,970 company-operated stores. The company added: "The political, policy and legal debates around these issues belong in the legislatures and courts, not in our stores." In 29 states, it's legal to openly carry a loaded handgun, without any form of government permission. Another 13 allow an unconcealed loaded handgun with a carry permit, according to opencarry.org, which is a loosely organized Web forum for the movement. In California, where it's legal to carry a gun openly without a license in most places as long as it's unloaded, growing numbers of armed people have been turning up at Starbucks, restaurants, and retailers, with handguns holstered to their belts to protest what they contend are unfair limits on permits to carry a concealed weapon. An "open carry" gun advocate watches a gun-control protest Wednesday in Seattle, Starbucks' home turf. The open-carry movement began spreading in 2004 after some pro-gun advocates in Virginia began researching state laws and discovered that many states don't have laws to prevent unconcealed carry of handguns. "The concealed carry movement has been successful but open carry is coming up," in popularity, said Mike Stollenwerk, a retired Army lieutenant colonel and co-founder of the opencarry.org site. "I feel other people have the right to carry firearms into a business if it's okay with the business," said William Moore, a carpenter from Lynwood, Wash., and an open-carry advocate who says he doesn't carry firearms into Starbucks coffee shops. Supporters are spreading in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Louisiana, and other areas. Some are making lists of "OC-friendly" locales, and encouraging boycotts of businesses with no-weapons signs. Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Home Depot Inc., Best Buy Co. and Barnes & Noble Inc., are designated as "open-carry" friendly in some online forums or say they abide by existing laws. "Our practice is to comply with local and state laws," said Best Buy spokeswoman Sue Busch Nehring. Open-carry proponents are also taking advantage of some momentum in state legislatures to expand gun rights, although most new and pending measures don't specifically address unconcealed handguns. Should people be allowed to carry guns into places like Starbucks? The company says it'll abide by local laws, but customers in San Francisco tell Rex Crum they really don't relish handguns with their lattes. Open carry hasn't been part of the official focus of the pro-gun lobbying group, the National Rifle Association, which has 4 million members. In the past 20 years, the NRA has focused on expanding the ability of U.S. gun owners to carry a handgun in a concealed manner. Today, 38 states have a "shall issue" permit process. Two states don't require a license to conceal carry. Eight states have "may issue" concealed carry laws, meaning permits will be given with the discretion of a local politician or police officer. "We support the self-defense rights of law-abiding Americans in accordance with local, state and federal laws," says Andrew Arulanandam, an NRA spokesman, who declined further comment on open-carry activity. Some chains have banned guns from their restaurants, even in open-carry states, because of the impact it could have on non-gun-carrying customers. "We are concerned that the open display of firearms would be particularly disturbing to children and their parents," said a spokesperson for the California Pizza Kitchen restaurant chain. A Peet's Coffee & Tea spokesperson said that while the firm "respects and values all individuals' rights...our policy is not to allow customers carrying firearms in our stores or on our outdoor seating premises unless they are uniformed or identified law enforcement officers." The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which partnered with Credo Action, an activist group that uses mobile phones to effect social change, says it has collected more than 28,000 signatures on a petition to get Starbucks to change its policy. Pro-gun advocates have taken to openly carrying guns to Starbucks as a way of testing corporations's stances on state weapons laws, William Spain reports. Allowing customers who are armed with unconcealed guns on the premises "can't be good for business�it galvanizes people, and some of them won't patronize Starbucks after this," said Joshua Horwitz, executive director of the Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence, a gun-control organization in Washington, D.C. Indeed, not all baristas agree that the Starbucks policy protects them. "I think the policy shows complete disregard for the safety and sentiments of their workers. The only thing worse than a yuppie upset with how their frappuccino turned out is a yuppie with a gun who's unhappy with how their frappuccino turned out," says Erik Forman, a Starbucks barista and union member in Minneapolis. The IWW Starbucks Workers Union on Wednesday issued a statement, saying "We appreciate the vigorous debate taking place by principled individuals on both sides of this issue. However, to date we are not aware of any efforts by Starbucks to widely engage its workers who are directly affected by open-carry gun laws. We believe an appropriate solution cannot be reached without doing so." �Nick Wingfield and Jess Bravin contributed to this article

FiftySense | 03-04-2010 10:14 AM
Re: Starbucks and Open Carry - Stores Land in Gun-Control Crossfire They are concerned about open carry customers because of guys like...... this: You Tube
You Tube
...who just happens to be exactly right about "StarBUCKS"

Goldfinger007 | 03-04-2010 10:46 AM
Re: Starbucks and Open Carry - Stores Land in Gun-Control Crossfire Quote:
Originally Posted by FiftySense (Post 2210266) They are concerned about open carry customers because of guys like...... this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18ClRW7nDxs ...who just happens to be exactly right about "StarBUCKS"
No FiftySense, this is about the 2nd amendment, not the 1st. But I'd be worried too if he showed up. That mouth is more dangerous than any gun. :tongue_ma:

steyr_m | 03-04-2010 11:06 AM
Re: Starbucks and Open Carry - Stores Land in Gun-Control Crossfire 1 Attachment(s) I wonder if Mr. Joshua Horwitz feels the same about open carry (in stores) in Israel.

FiftySense | 03-04-2010 08:29 PM
Re: Starbucks and Open Carry - Stores Land in Gun-Control Crossfire Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfinger007 (Post 2210308) No FiftySense, this is about the 2nd amendment, not the 1st. But I'd be worried too if he showed up. That mouth is more dangerous than any gun. :tongue_ma:
Duly noted GF. But who is to say that Mr. Brooklyn isn't packing a .38 under that calm and pleasant demeanor :s1:

Goldfinger007 | 03-04-2010 09:17 PM
Re: Starbucks and Open Carry - Stores Land in Gun-Control Crossfire Quote:
Duly noted GF. But who is to say that Mr. Brooklyn isn't packing a .38 under that calm and pleasant demeanor
That .38 would be a pea shooter back up to his main gun - his mouth and its command of the King's English. :adore:

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