Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)
- Firearms (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159)
- - Private firearm selling.. a limit? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=382333)

Highwayman | 06-11-2009 05:54 AM
Private firearm selling.. a limit? Hey guys, A quick question I'm sure someone here will know.. Is there a maximum number of private firearms I can sell per year, and not be considered a "dealer" (a.k.a. "hassled")? The state is Tennessee. Thanky. :ok:

NOOB | 06-11-2009 06:55 AM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? I don't think its a hard number. You don't want it to look like a business for profit though. Don't buy a gun at a sale then show up next week selling it for a profit. I remember when I was a kid my dad traded guns a lot. He even went as far as getting something in trade, book of matches, pocket knife etc with the money as boot. Check with the batf to make sure, this is just my recollection.

Highwayman | 06-11-2009 05:46 PM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? Quote:
Originally Posted by NOOB (Post 1764322) Don't buy a gun at a sale then show up next week selling it for a profit.. BATFE
I wonder why not? If it's your gun, purchased legally with your money.. you have the right to sell it whenever you wish it seems to me. "Logical" and "BATFE" in the same sentence...funny stuff.

NOOB | 06-20-2009 08:33 AM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? They will say you are then a firearms dealer. If you don't have the license you are a illegal firearms dealer. Ain't the gov. great.

Golddust | 06-20-2009 08:37 AM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwayman (Post 1764295) Hey guys, A quick question I'm sure someone here will know.. Is there a maximum number of private firearms I can sell per year, and not be considered a "dealer" (a.k.a. "hassled")? The state is Tennessee. Thanky. :ok:
For now you can buy and sell one or 100 + no law against.. Think:?

Agfinger | 06-20-2009 09:05 AM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwayman (Post 1764295) Hey guys, A quick question I'm sure someone here will know.. Is there a maximum number of private firearms I can sell per year, and not be considered a "dealer" (a.k.a. "hassled")? The state is Tennessee. Thanky. :ok:
I am also in Tennessee also but that doesn't matter... The key words that the BATFE use is "engaged in the business"...It could be one firearm or one hundred. If they can make the case that you are "engaged in the business", then you are in violation. It could be a little vague, but I guess they like it that way?:wink:

CrufflerJJ | 06-20-2009 09:15 AM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? Quote:
Originally Posted by Agfinger (Post 1778905) It could be a little vague, but I guess they like it that way?:wink:
Not just with BATFE regs - it's the way with many local/state/federal laws. The wording of the law is one thing, but the INTERPRETATION of the laws is what really matters. That's why we need lawyers, don'cha know??:sarc:

morganchaser | 06-20-2009 12:53 PM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? Quote:
Originally Posted by Agfinger (Post 1778905) I am also in Tennessee also but that doesn't matter... The key words that the BATFE use is "engaged in the business"...It could be one firearm or one hundred. If they can make the case that you are "engaged in the business", then you are in violation. It could be a little vague, but I guess they like it that way?:wink:
Apply for and get FFL. Shoot machine guns for a year. When the BATF pulls your FFL because you're "not engaged in business" you can use their words against them if they give you shit about private sales. Obviously do a little bit of business on the FFL and don't take out a bunch of new advertising post FFL. A jury has to buy it remember.

Agfinger | 06-20-2009 01:41 PM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? Quote:
Originally Posted by morganchaser (Post 1779095) Apply for and get FFL. Shoot machine guns for a year. When the BATF pulls your FFL because you're "not engaged in business" you can use their words against them if they give you shit about private sales. Obviously do a little bit of business on the FFL and don't take out a bunch of new advertising post FFL. A jury has to buy it remember.
All fine and well, but if you're serious, you have no idea what you are saying. Here's the problems with your scenario: 1) When you apply for an FFL, your best bet would be to apply for a type 3 "C&R" license and not a type 1,2, 7 or 9 license... A type 3 licensee is not "engaged in the business" anyway and gets much less attention from BATFE. There are many, many types of Title 1 weapons, (machineguns, SBR's, etc..), that can be purchased DIRECTLY to your home with no paperwork beyond a CLEO signoff and the $200 tax..It's the best and most under the radar deal going for MG owners. Besides, a C&R Thompson submachinegun is wayyy cooler than a new Ingram. 2) The jury may have to "buy" it, but trust me, you do NOT want to cross the BATFE or get on their radar....If you plan on taking the feds on in court, you had better have the dream team on speed dial and deep pockets. Not an option for most people on this forum.

StrawMan=Corporation | 06-20-2009 02:00 PM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? This is so wrong I don't know where to start. Title I weapons are not the type you referenced in your post read the link below to learn more. First of all to purchase Title II (2) weapons (MG, SBR, SBS, Suppression, DD without paying a Federal tax, one must posses a 01 FFL and a 03 SOT (Special Occupational Taxpayer) unless you live in a free state and then you can purchase only Transferable NFA Weapons from a Class III SOT Fill out a Federal form 3 in the case you are a SOT or a form 4 in the case you are a Individual. The 01 licence ran about 90.00 for a 3 year period and the SOT cost 500.00 per year at the time I was in business. BATF NFA (National Firearms Act) Handbook. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/ Quote:
Originally Posted by Agfinger (Post 1779126) All fine and well, but if you're serious, you have no idea what you are saying. Here's the problems with your scenario: 1) When you apply for an FFL, your best bet would be to apply for a type 3 "C&R" license and not a type 1,2, 7 or 9 license... A type 3 licensee is not "engaged in the business" anyway and gets much less attention from BATFE. There are many, many types of Title 1 weapons, (machineguns, SBR's, etc..), that can be purchased DIRECTLY to your home with no paperwork beyond a CLEO signoff and the $200 tax..It's the best and most under the radar deal going for MG owners. Besides, a C&R Thompson submachinegun is wayyy cooler than a new Ingram. 2) The jury may have to "buy" it, but trust me, you do NOT want to cross the BATFE or get on their radar....If you plan on taking the feds on in court, you had better have the dream team on speed dial and deep pockets. Not an option for most people on this forum.

Agfinger | 06-21-2009 10:15 AM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawMan=Corporation (Post 1779140) This is so wrong I don't know where to start. Title I weapons are not the type you referenced in your post read the link below to learn more. First of all to purchase Title II (2) weapons (MG, SBR, SBS, Suppression, DD without paying a Federal tax, one must posses a 01 FFL and a 03 SOT (Special Occupational Taxpayer) unless you live in a free state and then you can purchase only Transferable NFA Weapons from a Class III SOT
You are totally incorrect and your post has zero to do with what I posted... Here's how it works....If a Title II weapon is a C&R eligible weapon such as an amnesty registered Sten, Thompson, M2 carbine, etc...It can be bought DIRECTLY by someone with a C&R license, (type 3)...All is needed is a CLEO signoff and to pay the $200 tax, fingerprint cards and passport photo. There is no 01 or 02 license needed nor does there need to be an SOT. That is ALL is needed and a class three dealer does not need to be involved whatsoever on the buyer's end. This only applies to C&R eligible weapons, which is what I stated in my original post. If you disagree with this, you need to do a little research cause you know not what you speak. I'll accept an apology via PM when you find out that you're wrong...:ok:

Julian | 06-21-2009 10:36 AM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? In the past, the ATF has entrapped people at gun shows, by watching them buy a gun, then having an "undercover" agent offer more than the buyer paid for the gun. If the buyer declines, they make another offer at a ridiculous price. If that offer is accepted, boom, hit with "dealing firearms without a license", because a profit was made. That shit pisses me off beyond words, but they do it(or have done it, I don't know if that is still a current practice or not.) Now strictly speaking, if you're talking about just selling guns out of your private collection, which you've owned for a while, then you should be safe. To be really safe, don't sell them off fast, or take them to a consignment dealer. If you're thinking of some sort of arbitrage, where you get guns over the internet at lower prices, then marking them up and selling for cash a gun show, you certainly would be charged with dealing w/o a permit if the F-Troop ever caught wind of what you were doing. The really f#%&ed thing is that the ATF gets to make determinations of this stuff on the fly, and just because something was considered to be legal in the past doesn't matter, they can(and do!) reverse a decision on the fly, leaving people trying to obey the law out hanging in the wind.

Twisted Avatar | 06-21-2009 11:01 AM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian (Post 1779898) In the past, the ATF has entrapped people at gun shows, by watching them buy a gun, then having an "undercover" agent offer more than the buyer paid for the gun. If the buyer declines, they make another offer at a ridiculous price. If that offer is accepted, boom, hit with "dealing firearms without a license", because a profit was made. That shit pisses me off beyond words, but they do it(or have done it, I don't know if that is still a current practice or not.)
Sounds to good to be true............. it usally is. Dont be a sucker.

StrawMan=Corporation | 06-21-2009 11:04 AM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? Reread my post. I stated if you want to purchase a NFA weapon without paying the 200.00 tax you would need to possess a 01 FFL and 03 SOT. You stated what I quoted below and that is incorrect as MG, SBR, SBS, etc are Title II weapons not Title I weapons as you posted. Quote:
There are many, many types of Title 1 weapons, (machine guns, SBR's, etc..), that can be purchased DIRECTLY to your home with no paperwork beyond a CLEO sign off and the $200 tax
BTW depending on where one lives it might be easier to create a trust instead of attempting the CLEO sign off. You also neglected to mention that Transferable MG's that are C&R Eligible would be the most expensive of the bunch from the passing of the 1986 FOPA. Good luck in your future with NFA Weapons. You would be advised to check the link I posted knowing the law could keep you out of prison. Feel free to quote the law if you feel anything I stated was incorrect. That is if you know where to find it in the first place. Quote:
Originally Posted by Agfinger (Post 1779887) You are totally incorrect and your post has zero to do with what I posted... Here's how it works....If a Title II weapon is a C&R eligible weapon such as an amnesty registered Sten, Thompson, M2 carbine, etc...It can be bought DIRECTLY by someone with a C&R license, (type 3)...All is needed is a CLEO signoff and to pay the $200 tax, fingerprint cards and passport photo. There is no 01 or 02 license needed nor does there need to be an SOT. That is ALL is needed and a class three dealer does not need to be involved whatsoever on the buyer's end. This only applies to C&R eligible weapons, which is what I stated in my original post. If you disagree with this, you need to do a little research cause you know not what you speak. I'll accept an apology via PM when you find out that you're wrong...:ok:

Agfinger | 06-21-2009 10:08 PM
Re: Private firearm selling.. a limit? Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawMan=Corporation (Post 1779910) Reread my post. I stated if you want to purchase a NFA weapon without paying the 200.00 tax you would need to possess a 01 FFL and 03 SOT. BTW depending on where one lives it might be easier to create a trust instead of attempting the CLEO sign off. You also neglected to mention that Transferable MG's that are C&R Eligible would be the most expensive of the bunch from the passing of the 1986 FOPA. Good luck in your future with NFA Weapons. You would be advised to check the link I posted knowing the law could keep you out of prison. Feel free to quote the law if you feel anything I stated was incorrect. That is if you know where to find it in the first place.
I didn't think I was nearly that hard to understand...:banghead: My post had nothing...ZERO to do with how to avoid paying the $200 tax, my post was how to allow an individual the easiest and most cost effective method of buying a historic machinegun directly to their door with no dealer involved.. A C&R eligible NFA weapon sold to a standard C&R holder is the answer to that question, which is what I said in my very first post.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:44 AM. |

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright = None use it and Link to GIM