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- - Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=279914)

Ebie | 07-04-2008 08:45 PM
Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? For my wife, who is light. I don't want to buy her a 20 G, because I want to maintain unity of ammunition. Perhaps a a comprimise, I can get us 18 or 16 G shotguns. Be well.

Ebie | 07-04-2008 08:59 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Thanks, but, I prefer a pump shotgun. Regarding ammo: I checked on the internet. There are at least two adversed for this: Example: Ranger RA120085 Low Recoil Buckshot 12 Gauge - 00 Buck Symbol: RA120085 But do they really reduce recoil, and how do they do it? Thanks!

Canadian-guerilla | 07-04-2008 09:03 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? does it have to be a 12 ga ? maybe a 410

Ebie | 07-04-2008 09:12 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1177130) The only way they do it is to reduce the power. Gotta remember: For every action there is an equal in force but opposite in direction reaction. The only way to reduce the opposite in direction reaction is to reduce the force.
How much do they reduce the power? Which reduces it the most?

mtnman | 07-04-2008 09:23 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Here's what you might want. Mini shells..... http://www.aguilaammo.com/minishells.htm Read about modifying your gun for these shells here http://www.aguilaammo.com/minishells_shotgun_mods.htm

Irons | 07-04-2008 09:32 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? No need to reduce the power while taking out the kick, I have been doing this for a couple of years now and it works with no complaints. Send the barrel to mag-na-port. I have been a machinist for 21 years and these folks are the best I have ever seen. It will cost around $250 with the shipping, EDM machining is very expensive but these folks are good and a happy wife unit who loves her gun is priceless!:ARMS1:

Saul Mine | 07-04-2008 09:46 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? A principle of physics is that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. That means the shot is going to kick the shooter just as hard as it hits the target. Fill a shell with rock salt and you will get no kick at all. Neither will the salt penetrate a target, even a flimsy one. Edited to add: I got that info HERE.

Irons | 07-04-2008 09:55 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1177158) Porting would be nice, I couldn't see spending 250 to port my 199 Express 870! I like my shotguns simple and cheap.
Me too Dude, but we are doing this for our wife units.If a gun kicks a girl too bad she just wont shoot it anymore, and we want to keep shooting with our wives and we want them to have fun too. My wifes Browning BPS she has so much fun with is a hell of a pretty gun compared to the beat up Winchester model 12 I have had for 25 years and refuse to part with. A couple hundred bucks extra to keep them happy is worth it in spades.

AZLiberty | 07-04-2008 09:59 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? All of the big 3 make a low recoil or "tactical" buckshot. I usually buy the Remington "managed recoil". Part number is RL12BK00 It is a myth that a 20 gauge kicks less than a 12 for most standard loads. Yes it's true that the 12 gauge magnum loads kick more, but a 1 oz load (or 9 00 buck) kicks less in a 12 because 1) the 12 is usually heavier, and 2) the 12 operates at lower pressure to get the same velocity.

aybesee123 | 07-04-2008 10:08 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? what he said above... http://www.tacticalsolutionpartners....TSPCE0008b.jpg

Irons | 07-04-2008 10:30 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Mine (Post 1177168) A principle of physics is that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. That means the shot is going to kick the shooter just as hard as it hits the target. Fill a shell with rock salt and you will get no kick at all. Neither will the salt penetrate a target, even a flimsy one.
That is true, the force has to go somewhere but a properly ported or muzzle braked barrel will stop 50% or more of the kick. The drawback you get from the reduced kick is earsplitting muzzle blast.Do not set one of these rifles off in the confines of a small deer blind, be sure the muzzle brake is outside!! The first rifle I built was for my buddys wife in northern Colorado, she is small stature but hunts big game and she asked me if I could build her a .30 caliber rifle (bolt action) that was easier to shoot than a 7mm win ultra mag which is so common out there. I built her a .308 on a mauser action with a 20 inch muzzle braked barrel and the thing kicks like about a 20 gauge. Her first season she shot a mule deer at 380 yards, a cow elk at 160 yards and a bull elk at 220. She is a Northern Colorado girl born and raised and said she outshoots everybody at the range and they all want to get a better look at what the heck she is shooting! I have built 6 more since then but I'm having a hard time finding more .308 mausers to customize.

AceNZ | 07-04-2008 10:32 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebie (Post 1177104) For my wife, who is light. I don't want to buy her a 20 G, because I want to maintain unity of ammunition. Perhaps a a comprimise, I can get us 18 or 16 G shotguns.
Going to a smaller gauge won't always solve your problem. I had a 20 ga once that kicked more than any 12 ga I've ever shot. Things you can do to reduce recoil: -- Use an insert to reduce barrel gauge (like Little Skeeter). That doesn't solve your ammunition problem though. -- Get a heavier shotgun (although they are more tiring to hold) -- Lighter loads (less shot) -- Slower loads (less powder) -- Longer forcing cones (a specification of the barrel) -- Good-fitting stock (very important!) -- Semi-auto action type (much softer than fixed types; nothing has more recoil than a fixed breech gun -- I'll never own one again) -- Better recoil pad -- Better ear protection (noise can impact perceived recoil) Gun weight has about a 1:1 impact on recoil (10% heavier => 10% less felt recoil). Lighter/slower loads has a 2:1 impact (10% lighter/slower => 20% less recoil). I wouldn't bother with overboring / backboring; I'm not convinced it helps, and in some cases it can make things worse. I'm not a fan of porting, either. Also, make sure that form is good. Hold the gun tight to your shoulder, and lean into it. There's no faster way to get discouraged from shotguns than to let it sit a fraction of an inch away from your shoulder before you pull the trigger.

Irons | 07-04-2008 10:45 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by AceNZ (Post 1177204) Going to a smaller gauge won't always solve your problem. I had a 20 ga once that kicked more than any 12 ga I've ever shot. Things you can do to reduce recoil: -- Use an insert to reduce barrel gauge (like Little Skeeter). That doesn't solve your ammunition problem though. -- Get a heavier shotgun (although they are more tiring to hold) -- Lighter loads (less shot) -- Slower loads (less powder) -- Longer forcing cones (a specification of the barrel) -- Good-fitting stock (very important!) -- Semi-auto action type (much softer than fixed types; nothing has more recoil than a fixed breech gun -- I'll never own one again) -- Better recoil pad -- Better ear protection (noise can impact perceived recoil) Gun weight has about a 1:1 impact on recoil (10% heavier => 10% less felt recoil). Lighter/slower loads has a 2:1 impact (10% lighter/slower => 20% less recoil). I wouldn't bother with overboring / backboring; I'm not convinced it helps, and in some cases it can make things worse. I'm not a fan of porting, either.Also, make sure that form is good. Hold the gun tight to your shoulder, and lean into it. There's no faster way to get discouraged from shotguns than to let it sit a fraction of an inch away from your shoulder before you pull the trigger.
You obviously have no exprience on what proper porting can do to reduce recoil. Besides that your advice is good and right on.

AceNZ | 07-04-2008 11:20 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by Irons (Post 1177212) You obviously have no exprience on what proper porting can do to reduce recoil.
It may well be that you're using a technique that I don't have experience with, or perhaps it works well for you with your particular gun, shells, etc. My experience has been that porting shotguns might help reduce recoil on a fixed-breech gun when using heavy, high power shells. In most other scenarios, I've never detected a noticeable recoil difference between ported and non-ported barrels. In the high-pressure environment of pistols and rifles, it's a much different story, of course. I know some people are big fans of it, but often times when asked about the details, they have had multiple changes done at the same time, including lengthening the forcing cones -- and I'm of the opinion that the forcing cones are more often the real cause of recoil improvements, rather than the porting by itself. Also, when done wrong, porting can increase muzzle blast to obnoxious levels -- which can actually increase perceived recoil for novice shooters.

Saul Mine | 07-04-2008 11:45 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Since nobody else has mentioned it, I will pass on what I was taught: Pull the stock tight against your shoulder and lean into the shot. The kick will then push you back into an upright position. If it's not tight against you, you get socked bad.

AceNZ | 07-04-2008 11:52 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Mine (Post 1177275) Since nobody else has mentioned it, I will pass on what I was taught: Pull the stock tight against your shoulder and lean into the shot. The kick will then push you back into an upright position. If it's not tight against you, you get socked bad.
I guess you didn't see my post... :no_ma:

LukeNM | 07-05-2008 01:13 AM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? I got a side-by-side coach gun to use the Aguila mini shells. Not sure if the one I got is still available however... Intrac Arms Coach Gun � 12 Gauge, 2.5" http://www.lucasweb.net/firearms/pictures/CoachGun.jpg

Saul Mine | 07-05-2008 05:16 AM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by AceNZ (Post 1177288) I guess you didn't see my post... :no_ma:
I stand corrected on that point.

diogenes | 07-05-2008 08:37 AM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? I have a Lupra ( short barreled double) that has a mercury "piston" in the stock...it reduces recoil nocitably! I was firing 3inch buck / 27 pellets and it felt like regular 12 ga buckshot loads...didn't even bruise me!

AceNZ | 07-05-2008 06:06 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by diogenes (Post 1177565) I have a Lupra ( short barreled double) that has a mercury "piston" in the stock...it reduces recoil nocitably! I was firing 3inch buck / 27 pellets and it felt like regular 12 ga buckshot loads...didn't even bruise me!
I'm not convinced that the "mercury piston" aspect of those devices is what helps reduce recoil. I think you will get just as much improvement from the added weight alone.

Irons | 07-05-2008 09:02 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by AceNZ (Post 1177242) It may well be that you're using a technique that I don't have experience with, or perhaps it works well for you with your particular gun, shells, etc. My experience has been that porting shotguns might help reduce recoil on a fixed-breech gun when using heavy, high power shells. In most other scenarios, I've never detected a noticeable recoil difference between ported and non-ported barrels. In the high-pressure environment of pistols and rifles, it's a much different story, of course. I know some people are big fans of it, but often times when asked about the details, they have had multiple changes done at the same time, including lengthening the forcing cones -- and I'm of the opinion that the forcing cones are more often the real cause of recoil improvements, rather than the porting by itself. Also, when done wrong, porting can increase muzzle blast to obnoxious levels -- which can actually increase perceived recoil for novice shooters.
You got that right my friend,all that force has to go somewhere if not into a girls shoulder.Let me see if I can find a pic of the .308 I built for my wife. It doesn't kick much at all but the muzzle blast blinds the shooter, rattles windows and scares children. Not a bad thing really, the neighbors think you have a Howitzer.:emotions16:

CattleRancher | 07-05-2008 10:32 PM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebie (Post 1177104) For my wife, who is light. I don't want to buy her a 20 G, because I want to maintain unity of ammunition. Perhaps a a comprimise, I can get us 18 or 16 G shotguns. Be well.
This sounds like a home defense shotgun given your desire for unity of ammunition and the fact that you desire a pump shotgun. I read your subsequent post about that. For home defense, you want a 12 gauge, and not a smaller gauge. Yes, there are numerous "low recoil" shotgun shells. Go to your local ammunition dealer and look for "light" target loads with only one ounce of shot. These are the loads many use for skeet shooting. These will produce the least amount of felt recoil. You and your wife can practice with the light loads. Save the heavy double 00 buck for actual home defense. But, you will want to let her shoot those several times too, just so that she is aware of the extra kick. The various posts about physics and recoil are correct. No matter what shell you shoot, there will be an equal and opposite reaction. However, there are many things you can do to reduce what is known as "felt recoil." Felt recoil is how your body perceives the actual recoil generated. First and foremost in reducing felt recoil is shooting a gun that fits. An ill fitting shotgun can beat a shooter to death, even with light loads. Similarly, one can shoot a well fitted shotgun with pleasure, even with heavier loads. If you don't want to get a shotgun fitted, which can be done for several hundred dollars at some gunsmiths, the next best thing is to shoot a semi-auto. The "automatic" action absorbs much of the recoil in cycling the next shell, thus reducing "felt recoil." Next to that is a good recoil pad. Look up Kickeez on google. There are a number of shock absorbing recoil pads on the market for shotguns. And, best of all, these can be installed rather cheaply. Pad and installation can be had for less than 100 dollars. The next best thing is porting. Porting will make the shotgun much louder, but it does reduce felt recoil considerably. Unfortunately, porting does not come cheap. There are still other things that can be done such as lengthened forcing cones and backboring, but these offer minimal help when compared to the above. For a pump shotgun, which might not merit a lot of money put into it, at least get a good recoil pad. At the same time, when having the pad installed by a gunsmith, you can have the stock lengthened or shortened to your wife's "length of pull." Your gunsmith will know what that is, and it is one of the components of a complete gun fitting. Many gunsmiths will cut the stock to length of pull to fit a woman for just 50 to 75 dollars, and it is money well spent. Benelli Nova is a nice pump shotgun. I am not sure, but that shotgun may come ported. Do a google for "ported" pump shotguns. Who knows, you might be able to find one that comes that way. Good luck with your new purchase.

AceNZ | 07-06-2008 12:14 AM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by CattleRancher (Post 1178303) Save the heavy double 00 buck for actual home defense.
I agree with most of your post (since it basically said the same thing as my earlier one), but not this part. First, 00 buck, in spite of its reputation, is a very poor choice for home defense, for several reasons: for a same-sized shell, there are fewer pellets in 00 than in something smaller, like #1. For example, in a 2.75" shell, 00 has 9 pellets, vs. 16 for #1. More pellets means a higher chance of hitting your target, esp. at distance. The tradeoff is that you don't want to go too small, or the pellets don't penetrate far enough. Of course you can get more pellets in a magnum / longer shell -- say 18 for 00 in a 3.5" shell, but twice the mass means twice the recoil too. While it's true that a larger pellet will do more damage than a smaller one, that should be balanced against the fact that multiple wounds are much more damaging than single ones. Two hits from #1 buck are going to do much more to stop an assailant than one hit from 00 -- both because the energy of the lighter pellet is usually fully absorbed in the body, whereas the lighter pellet goes all the way through an deposits the remaining energy elsewhere (perhaps on a bystander), and because multiple areas of trauma are just more damaging to the body (it's works something like this: 4 pellets hitting the target have 16 times the stopping power as a single pellet of the same size/shape/mass/velocity). I'm also a firm believer in training with the same loads that you plan to use in "real life." Recoil, shot patterns, noise, etc, all have an impact on your ability to aim and shoot accurately. Reducing as many variables as you can is an important goal of training, esp. for novice shooters. Even the shell brand can make a difference.

Barebull | 07-06-2008 01:37 AM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? How about a low recoil shotgun (if you got the money)? Beretta Xtrema2 http://www.berettausa.com/product/sp...un_xtrema2.cfm http://easylink.playstream.com/beret...eo.wvx?dl=true

AceNZ | 07-06-2008 02:33 AM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by Barebull (Post 1178426) How about a low recoil shotgun (if you got the money)? Beretta Xtrema2 http://www.berettausa.com/product/sp...un_xtrema2.cfm http://easylink.playstream.com/beret...eo.wvx?dl=true
Cool. I enjoyed the video; the guy has amazing skillz, no doubt... I'd love to try one. Benelli has a similar system:

SilverCaper | 07-06-2008 11:16 AM
Re: Is there a low recoil 12 Ga shotgun shell? Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1177186) Check into the Knoxx Compstock for whatever model shotgun you choose. http://www.cabelas.com/information/H...820031437.html
Or better yet, how about the following: Knoxx SpecOps Stock From the longest arm of the law to the shortest, the Knoxx SpecOps Stock is instantly adjustable to fit any shooter. With over 4 inches of adjustment, this is a stock that the entire department can use comfortably in any application and with any load. Just when you thought recoil reduction had reached maximum potential, Knoxx Industries has produced yet another patented recoil-reducing stock to revolutionize the way you think about shotguns. Utilizing dual Knoxx recoil-compensating systems, the SpecOps Stock has the ability to reduce felt recoil of even the most potent loads by up to 95%. The SpecOps Stock makes even the heaviest loads easy for all shooters to handle! The SpecOps’ polymer and alloy construction makes it durable, reliable and built to last. Also, the unique features and design of this pistol grip style stock allows law enforcement agencies and military personnel the ability to use their shotguns with all load-bearing and ballistic tactical vests. Designed to fit any and all shooters, and practically devoid of recoil, the SpecOps Stock is the latest in the Knoxx family of recoil-reducing products. Not only is it utilizing two recoil-absorbing mechanisms to soak up recoil, it also adjusts to fit any shooter regardless of the situation or application. Hunters and competitive shooters will find their scores and hit ratios improving as flinching and recoil anticipation dramatically decreases * Dramatic Reduction in Recoil and Muzzle Flip * Eliminates Shooter Fatigue & Pain Regardless of Size * Use Magnum Shells without Pain * Increased Accuracy and Faster Follow-up Shots * Increased Confidence and Effectiveness in Shotgun Utilization * Reduced Officer injury claims * Instantly adjustable to fit all shooters (11.25 to 15.25-inch length-of-pull) * Perfect fit with load-bearing and ballistic tactical vests. * Dual recoil compensation systems eliminate harsh recoil with all loads * Unique design cuts muzzle rise – Get back on target faster * Eliminate shoulder fatigue and related recoil injuries http://www.knoxx.com/products/grfx/specops_Main.gif http://www.knoxx.com/products/SpecOps_Stock.php http://www.botachtactical.com/knspadst.html

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