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- - Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=319563)

stacks | 11-05-2008 04:48 PM
Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Gun Rights in Peril Barack Obama in the White House; many pro-gunners out of Congress http://www.gunowners.org/goa_logo_trans.gif Gun Owners of America Wednesday, November 5, 2008 Based on his voting record in the Illinois state senate and in the U.S. Senate, President-elect Barack Obama will be the most anti-Second Amendment president in the history of America. In January, the new President will govern alongside congressional leadership, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who are also extremely hostile to gun rights and who now enjoy greatly expanded majorities. There can be little doubt about the direction in which gun rights are headed. The questions are how far will the anti-gunners go and how fast will they move? Many comparisons have been made to the first two years of the first Clinton Administration, in which one party controlled both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue. Almost all experts agree that it was Clinton's overreaching on issues like gun control that cost his party control of Congress. Barack Obama will start out governing with even larger majorities than did Clinton. Obama ran a campaign high on rhetoric and short on specifics. The President-elect claims he will govern from the middle, but the question for gun owners is which Obama will show up at the White House -- the "centrist" from the campaign trail, or the radical anti-Second Amendment extremist who supports gun bans, waiting periods for firearm purchases, one gun a month restrictions, and more? His party's large gains in the Congress give the incoming President more room to maneuver with a radical agenda. An equally important question is the outlook for gun rights in the new Congress. That Obama will sign any anti-gun bill that gets to his desk is a certainty. But what can gun owners expect from the new Congress? Hopes of Congressional restraint on gun issues dimmed with each election return as Pelosi's and Reid's majorities grew to historic proportions. While there are many moderately pro-gun Democrats in Congress, they're not the ones calling the shots. The leadership is completely in the anti-gun camp, so expanding their majority would have a negative impact on gun rights regardless who filled those seats. Unfortunately, though, many seats that flipped parties also went from strong pro-gun to strong anti-gun. Gun owners suffered heavy losses in the Senate. Here's a look at five Senate seats that switched parties (all switches went from Republican to Democrat). Colorado -- The retirement of A-rated Senator Wayne Allard set up a battle between anti-gun Rep. Mark Udall and pro-gun former Rep. Bob Schaffer. This is one of three senate seats that flipped from "A" to "F." New Hampshire -- Pro-gun Senator John Sununu was defeated by F-rated former governor Jeanne Shaheen, another "A" to "F" shift. New Mexico -- Long-time Senator Pete Domenici, who was D-rated and usually voted against gun owners, was replaced by F-rated Congressman Tom Udall. Udall defeated A-rated Representative Steve Pearce, making this a big loss for gun owners. North Carolina -- Republican Sen. Elizabeth Dole ran as a pro-gun control candidate for president in 2000. Since being elected to the Senate from the Tar Heel state, however, Mrs. Dole compiled a good pro-gun record. Dole's defeat at the hands of F-rated anti-gunner Kay Hagan is a dramatic flip for gun rights. Virginia -- F-rated Republican John Warner retired. Former governor Mark Warner (no relation) trounced "A" rated Jim Gilmore, also a former governor. Either of the candidates would have been an improvement over the retiring Senator, but Mark Warner refused to answer the GOA survey and has a mixed record on gun issues. In the battle for the U.S. House of Representatives, gun owners also were hit hard. Of the 18 incumbents who were defeated, 15 were pro-gun (only two were replaced by a pro-gunner). Of particular disappointment to gun owners were the losses of Republican representatives Marilyn Musgrave (CO-4), Tom Feeney (FL-24), Bill Sali (ID-1), and Tim Walberg (MI-7). These representatives were among the most ardent Second Amendment supporters. In the 32 open House seats, the results were mixed. Thirteen seats went to A-rated candidates, while six went to F-rated anti-gunners. Nine new congressmen are "Not Rated," meaning they have no record and refused to fill out a GOA questionnaire. Four new members fall somewhere in the middle, leaning toward a pro-gun position but no guarantees. Note: a handful of close races across the country are obviously headed for recounts, but this is how things look at the moment. The A-rated winners in open seat elections are: Tom McClintock (R-CA) (this race is still subject to change), Duncan Hunter (R-CA), Bill Posey (R-FL), Mike Coffman (R-CO), Debbie Halvorson (D-IL), Aaron Schock (R-IL), Brett Guthrie (R-KY), Erik Paulsen (R-MN), Blaine Luetkemeyer (R-MO), Christopher Lee (R-NY), Glenn Thompson (R-PA), Jason Chaffetz (R-UT), and Cynthia Lummis (R-WY). These representatives will have their work cut out for them, as the new Congress has moved decidedly in the anti-gun direction and many pro-gun leaders were defeated. All in all, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid can�t help but be emboldened by their gains and there can be no denying that gun control legislation is on their agenda. So what can gun owners and sportsmen do to help prevent a gun control tidal wave? Get involved and stay engaged! Gun Owners of America will continue its efforts as Capitol Hill's no-compromise gun lobby. But GOA's effectiveness depends on your activism. Please continue to send the e-mails to your congressmen, and forward GOA Action Alerts to pro-gun friends. If you are not a member of Gun Owners of America, please join today so that you can start receiving our newsletters and other important gun rights information. The entire Congress needs to know that we're watching, and if they attempt to ban even one firearm or expand unconstitutional gun control in any way they will pay at the polls in the next election.

TomD | 11-05-2008 04:56 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress This isn't good by any stretch. If there is any silver lining it will be that they may far overreach and really freak the average voter. Clinton admitted that his ambitious 1993 anti-gun bills heavily contributed to the 1994 Republican takeover.

JJ_ | 11-05-2008 06:18 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress I don't know how all the legislative wrangling works... But it seems to me that the individual States ought to step in and demand that the rights of its citizens be protected under State Constitutions. States Rights issue? Secession? Could that be the last leg for RKBA before we are forced to shed blood over it? Civil War?

JJ_ | 11-05-2008 06:25 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
The A-rated winners in open seat elections are: Tom McClintock (R-CA) (this race is still subject to change), Duncan Hunter (R-CA), Bill Posey (R-FL), Mike Coffman (R-CO), Debbie Halvorson (D-IL), Aaron Schock (R-IL), Brett Guthrie (R-KY), Erik Paulsen (R-MN), Blaine Luetkemeyer (R-MO), Christopher Lee (R-NY), Glenn Thompson (R-PA), Jason Chaffetz (R-UT), and Cynthia Lummis (R-WY). These representatives will have their work cut out for them, as the new Congress has moved decidedly in the anti-gun direction and many pro-gun leaders were defeated.
RP ran un-opposed... wonder why he didn't name him? He surly has an A rating.

Abouthadit | 11-05-2008 06:38 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1399944) I don't know how all the legislative wrangling works... But it seems to me that the individual States ought to step in and demand that the rights of its citizens be protected under State Constitutions. States Rights issue? Secession? Could that be the last leg for RKBA before we are forced to shed blood over it? Civil War?
roger that. The States' govs and AGs should, as Jefferson wrote in the Resolutions of '98, exercise their sovereign rights and interpose between the people and the federal government. Nullification is another tool available to them to refute unlawful, meaning unconstitutional, legislation.

Twisted Avatar | 11-05-2008 06:51 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Get what you can while you can. Nobody is asking questions everybody is buying everything in sight. T

Silver Wolf | 11-06-2008 08:23 AM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress There is no doubt that we gun owners are on the chopping block. The fools who voted the socialists into power weren't even thinking about the unintended consequences like this. They thought they were voting on their wallets but we know that's not even the case. Those mongrels don't know what they're doing.

negative1 | 11-06-2008 04:05 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Wolf (Post 1401012) There is no doubt that we gun owners are on the chopping block. The fools who voted the socialists into power weren't even thinking about the unintended consequences like this. They thought they were voting on their wallets but we know that's not even the case. Those mongrels don't know what they're doing.
A little ot... but speaking of "Unintended Consequences" if you haven't read it buy it and read it. :ARMS1:

meatman | 11-06-2008 04:18 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress not worried here I know more gun owners that will die before they hand over their arms I know of no man that is willing to die trying to take them.

Ares | 11-06-2008 04:25 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Just like last time, the guns went from the open market to the black market. The price just goes up. They can pass all the anti-gun bills they like, but they will never get rid of them. They'll be buried, hidden, but never discarded.

Big_Rob | 11-06-2008 04:42 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Why are we buying all these guns if were not going to use them? If they decide to pass the AWB2 then its time for the tree of liberty to be watered. Fukk that! Im sick and fukking tired of these douchebag fukking assholecrats wanting to take MY RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS away every chance they get. The second amendment was put into the constitution so we would have a tool against government tyranny and we do nothing when bullshit anti-gun legislation is passed.

Satyr | 11-06-2008 05:00 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1399953) RP ran un-opposed... wonder why he didn't name him? He surly has an A rating.
Oddly enough, he doesn't. And the one reason for this is his vote against a bill that would essentially protect firearms manufacturers from being sued. I can't recall if the bill pertained to specific types of lawsuits, or just lawsuits in general. Either way, RP said the bill was unconstitutional and voted against it. That lowered his rating a notch with all pro gun organisations. That's the one thing I don't really like about the NRA, etc. They seem to forget the US Constitution consists of more than one paragraph.

Brent | 11-06-2008 05:06 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1402013) You're not alone BR.
He's certainly not. Nice to see so many other Floridians have the same idea.

Twisted Avatar | 11-06-2008 05:08 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by meatman (Post 1401957) not worried here I know more gun owners that will die before they hand over their arms I know of no man that is willing to die trying to take them.
:applause_:applause_:applause_:applause_:applause_ :applause_:applause_

Drumblebum | 11-06-2008 05:14 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Rob (Post 1401992) Why are we buying all these guns if were not going to use them? If they decide to pass the AWB2 then its time for the tree of liberty to be watered. Fukk that! Im sick and fukking tired of these douchebag fukking assholecrats wanting to take MY RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS away every chance they get. The second amendment was put into the constitution so we would have a tool against government tyranny and we do nothing when bullshit anti-gun legislation is passed.
More or less what I was thinking. Anti-gun legislation only matters to those who will give them up if demanded by gubbermint.

JJ_ | 11-06-2008 05:23 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyr (Post 1402021) Oddly enough, he doesn't. And the one reason for this is his vote against a bill that would essentially protect firearms manufacturers from being sued. I can't recall if the bill pertained to specific types of lawsuits, or just lawsuits in general. Either way, RP said the bill was unconstitutional and voted against it. That lowered his rating a notch with all pro gun organisations. That's the one thing I don't really like about the NRA, etc. They seem to forget the US Constitution consists of more than one paragraph.
AAAHHH I did not know that.. Thanks for pointing that out.

JJ_ | 11-06-2008 05:28 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Rob (Post 1401992) Why are we buying all these guns if were not going to use them? If they decide to pass the AWB2 then its time for the tree of liberty to be watered. Fukk that! Im sick and fukking tired of these douchebag fukking assholecrats wanting to take MY RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS away every chance they get. The second amendment was put into the constitution so we would have a tool against government tyranny and we do nothing when bullshit anti-gun legislation is passed.
HEAR HEAR!! Stand together lads... THIS will be the cause we bleed for! :thumb.aspx: that sounded kinda dramatic in my head:biggrin: I agree Rob... Very much.- I told the wife last night that I'd go to war over this. My very words. Gitch yer buckets boys... WE got waterin' ta do.

JJ_ | 11-06-2008 05:32 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress HOWEVER - I will still hope (for as long as I can stand it) that I can somewhat depend on the States to do something this time. OTOH - I'm not holding my breath.

JJ_ | 11-06-2008 05:40 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Rob (Post 1401992) The second amendment was put into the constitution so we would have a tool against government tyranny and we do nothing when bullshit anti-gun legislation is passed.
I'll say just one more thing here...riskin a ban on this one but. Some fella posted a thread this morning that talked about "doing something" - It was poo pooed and deleted by a MOD ever so quickly.. "Uncalled for" - "Outrageous" or some such. Now, I know why it had to be deleted. But Damn- if we can't talk about Doing SOMETHING....we'll never do anything. To me - that thread was about givin a lil drink to the liberty tree... im done.

JJ_ | 11-06-2008 05:54 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1402090) Right now everyone should be supporting the gun lobbies. NRA, GOA, TSRA. This and being contacting your congressmen is the best thing you can do today.
Mike McCaul is solid. He knows what to do ... He's just outnumbered. Lobbying is fine... Heck, I'll even break down and join GOA- but who are they gonna convince? It's all Libs on the hill. Show me that this is not a done deal.

Twisted Avatar | 11-06-2008 07:09 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1402165) I wish I felt your optimism. I think this will be settled out of doors.
Of course it will be........ If the other side was interested in amicable discourse it would have NEVER gotten this far. It seems we have to "speak there lauguage"

mk3hunter | 11-06-2008 07:16 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Secession? Could that be the last leg for RKBA before we are forced to shed blood over it? Civil War?
I do believe this. If the Feds get so bad......before blood is lost....secession is MORAL. The state or states need to write another Declaration to a candid world to state their MORAL high ground before doing this. IMHO That is the correct way of doing this. The beautiful American template is there. You just watch the panic in Washingtondc if that ever happened......what the hell could they do .......surround the state like Waco??? Not possible. PR nightmare fully displayed on every channel in the world. And other states would get pissed watching the response from washingtondc if dc was aggressive. I'm not a tinfoil guy........

JJ_ | 11-06-2008 09:12 PM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by mk3hunter (Post 1402282) You just watch the panic in Washingtondc if that ever happened......what the hell could they do .......surround the state like Waco??? Not possible. PR nightmare fully displayed on every channel in the world. And other states would get pissed watching the response from washingtondc if dc was aggressive. I'm not a tinfoil guy........
I may have to withdraw Secession as a possibility......Here's why. Globalism. If said State were to come under siege, the citizens of the world would be indifferent... That state would be kown as "the break away province" The Reason for said state's secession would have RKBA in amongst a list of other grievances and violations of the Constituion- NONE OF WHICH MATTER TO THE POEPLE OF THE WORLD. And the majority of the governments in the world are moving more and more towards Globalism all the time. No no - I don't think that a Secession would be allowed in an environment where Annex is the play of the day.

mk3hunter | 11-07-2008 10:27 AM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress I hear you...I do. I just wonder if Globalism (ie I'm taking that to mean a global economy) would be a positive for the states that leave. Our state Gov. goes to China for business and trade all the time. People around the world love Obama and Ron Paul (I know I dont give a rats a$$ what others around the world think about my liberty BUT) I do think the world would trade with the states. Some state's market economy is bigger than a good number of nations Having the Fed Govt in 130 nations militarily.....somebody will love that fact the some states are leaving the union. With so much american involvment into other nation's busniess.....I do think the people of the world would care. Blowback works both here and at home. And they will trade as a sign that they agree with the split.

Big_Rob | 11-07-2008 10:54 AM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Its stuff like this just makes me want to throw up! http://blogumentary.typepad.com/phot...5/obama420.jpg :fan::fan::fan::fan:

JJ_ | 11-07-2008 11:05 AM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by mk3hunter (Post 1403182) I hear you...I do. I just wonder if Globalism (ie I'm taking that to mean a global economy) would be a positive for the states that leave. Our state Gov. goes to China for business and trade all the time. People around the world love Obama and Ron Paul (I know I dont give a rats a$$ what others around the world think about my liberty BUT) I do think the world would trade with the states. Some state's market economy is bigger than a good number of nations Having the Fed Govt in 130 nations militarily.....somebody will love that fact the some states are leaving the union. With so much american involvment into other nation's busniess.....I do think the people of the world would care. Blowback works both here and at home. And they will trade as a sign that they agree with the split.
Take a look at Iraq (pre war) and Iran in terms of their relationship w/ the IMF (i.e. the global econ.)... yeah they were/are kinda sanctioned and invaded and stuff... Besides that I was more thinking along the lines of a NAU.. you can borrow my shiny hat if you want. If we're gonna have a United States of Mexianada.. They won't stand for a Republic of Texas breaking up that perfect symmetry... see what i mean? This is all kinda off track- but I think it relates to a big part of how we can disregard Secession as a means of gettin around Federal Gun legislation.

JJ_ | 11-07-2008 11:08 AM
Re: Gun Rights in Peril: Obama in the White House; Many pro-gunners out of Congress Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Rob (Post 1403231) Its stuff like this just makes me want to throw up! :fan::fan::fan::fan:
i just did... thanks for that:thumb.aspx:

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