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BullionVince | 01-19-2009 12:43 AM
Steel Core Ammo AP? I noticed some steel core ammo that is advertised as Armor Piercing. I am guessing this is the banned from importation Chinese stuff I have been hearing so much about. What makes this a must have for the astronomical prices? Is there any difference firing this rather than the Russian made stuff. I looked before but didn't see this for sale in weeks past. Are gun dealers liquidating, so they don't get left holding the bag? Hmmmm.... I can assume this will be a no-no under the new regime. http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...roducts_id/186 What say you?

Big_Rob | 01-19-2009 01:09 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? I remember buying oodles of it at 25 cents a round!!!

SilverCity | 01-19-2009 01:19 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by BullionVince (Post 1518117) I noticed some steel core ammo that is advertised as Armor Piercing. I am guessing this is the banned from importation Chinese stuff I have been hearing so much about. What makes this a must have for the astronomical prices? Is there any difference firing this rather than the Russian made stuff. I looked before but didn't see this for sale in weeks past. Are gun dealers liquidating, so they don't get left holding the bag? Hmmmm.... I can assume this will be a no-no under the new regime. http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...roducts_id/186 What say you?
Chinese steel-core is mil spec, banned from importation and supposedly illegal for dealers to sell, not individuals. Probably banned outright in some states. I used to own a bunch. Paid about 18-20 cents per round from various sources. Found it to be very accurate, more so than standard Chinese, because the steel-core bullet itself was LONGER, and stabilized better out of AKs. It is probably no more armor piercing than standard ammo and fairly corrosive...a waste of your money, IMO. I sold all of mine for about 75 cents per round last year.

WAoG | 01-19-2009 01:35 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1518162) Chinese steel-core is mil spec, banned from importation and supposedly illegal for dealers to sell, not individuals. Probably banned outright in some states. I used to own a bunch. Paid about 18-20 cents per round from various sources. Found it to be very accurate, more so than standard Chinese, because the steel-core bullet itself was LONGER, and stabilized better out of AKs. It is probably no more armor piercing than standard ammo and fairly corrosive...a waste of your money, IMO. I sold all of mine for about 75 cents per round last year.
Did you every see what it would do to Kevlar or armor plates? I got some stuff that will go through Kevlar like butter. Its not AK ammo though. So in close quarters with people wearing kevlar you think it would make no difference in the steel core or lead core AK ammo?

WAoG | 01-19-2009 01:45 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by BullionVince (Post 1518117) I noticed some steel core ammo that is advertised as Armor Piercing. I am guessing this is the banned from importation Chinese stuff I have been hearing so much about. What makes this a must have for the astronomical prices? Is there any difference firing this rather than the Russian made stuff. I looked before but didn't see this for sale in weeks past. Are gun dealers liquidating, so they don't get left holding the bag? Hmmmm.... I can assume this will be a no-no under the new regime. http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...roducts_id/186 What say you?
It more than likely will go right through most all Kevlar vests? I never shot up a vest with the stuff but they stopped it being imported for a reason. I have a part of a Kevlar vest someplace and if I can find it I will experiment.

SilverCity | 01-19-2009 01:51 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by WAoG (Post 1518193) Did you every see what it would do to Kevlar or armor plates? I got some stuff that will go through Kevlar like butter. Its not AK ammo though. So in close quarters with people wearing kevlar you think it would make no difference in the steel core or lead core AK ammo?
No, I never tried it...and don't know any who did. 7.62x39 doesn't get moving fast enough to pierce armor, that I am aware of and I don't think that was the original intent. In many countries steel (iron) is more plentiful than lead so it's just cheaper to manufacture a soft steel bullet with a copper wash than a lead-core one. And I never saw any Russian stuff that was considered AP so I assume they figured it wasn't effective for their purposes. Now something in 308 or 30-06...:wink:

WAoG | 01-19-2009 02:13 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1518225) No, I never tried it...and don't know who did. 7.62x39 doesn't get moving fast enough to pierce armor, that I am aware of and I don't think that was the original intent. I many countries steel (iron) is more plentiful than lead so it's just cheaper to manufacture a soft steel bullet with a copper wash than a lead-core one. And I never saw any Russian stuff that was considered AP so I assume they figured it wasn't effective for their purposes. Now something in 308 or 30-06...:wink:
I do believe I have seen E German AK ammo with steel core. I think I may have seen Russian?

Bx3 | 01-19-2009 02:24 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Not sure about the particulars of your question but most any center fire rifle ammo will penetrate a Kevlar vest. That's why we should all be concerned when the politicians start throwing out terms like "cop killer bullets". It's the plates that are a tough nut to crack.

WAoG | 01-19-2009 02:25 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by BullionVince (Post 1518117) I noticed some steel core ammo that is advertised as Armor Piercing. I am guessing this is the banned from importation Chinese stuff I have been hearing so much about. What makes this a must have for the astronomical prices? Is there any difference firing this rather than the Russian made stuff. I looked before but didn't see this for sale in weeks past. Are gun dealers liquidating, so they don't get left holding the bag? Hmmmm.... I can assume this will be a no-no under the new regime. http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...roducts_id/186 What say you?
From the link. This stuff shoots right though 1/4" steel plate @ 50yards WOW!!! Rating: http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...es/stars_5.gif [5 of 5 Stars!]

WAoG | 01-19-2009 02:40 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1518273) Not sure about the particulars of your question but most any center fire rifle ammo will penetrate a Kevlar vest. That's why we should all be concerned when the politicians start throwing out terms like "cop killer bullets". It's the plates that are a tough nut to crack.
I agree. Shoot them in the pumpkin. Those Kevlar helmets, I do not think they do good against center fire rifle ammo either? But this ak steal core ammo might right through Kevlar vest and a Kevlar plate? Even if it takes a couple of rounds? Kevlar vest and steal plate I'M not sure much ammo that is not 50 cal is going through both?

BullionVince | 01-19-2009 02:51 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Case in Point, I awake in the middle of the night to see someone with an F-450 Super Duty loaded up with all of my vegetables he just stashed away in the bed of his truck. I grab my rifle and get into position. His tires are spinning and he is starting to rock back and forth trying to break free. Wow, this ahole just looted my garden in the middle of the night. As I move closer he sees me and gives me the one finger salute as his vehicle starts rolling away. I have two high cap mags in each hand, with the weapon strapped over my shoulder. Do I load my Silver Bear soft points or do I reach for a magazine of this stuff? I don't want to kill the guy but he is shooting me the finger as he starts rolling off. Will I be able to disable the engine block with one or two well placed shots using my soft points or am I going to need just a little more power? There are many potential uses maybe. Not just biological targets but mechanized units are something to take into consideration. These scenarios can keep me up at night.:10_1_19:

luft97 | 01-19-2009 03:02 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by BullionVince (Post 1518298) I don't want to kill the guy but he is shooting me the finger as he starts rolling off. Will I be able to disable the engine block with one or two well placed shots using my soft points or am I going to need just a little more power? There are many potential uses maybe. Not just biological targets but mechanized units are something to take into consideration. These scenarios can keep me up at night.:10_1_19:
You are worrying to much about what could happen. Buy a decent amount of ammo and take it as it comes. Look, if for some reason the US spirals down into a lawless society and crime becomes rampant where someone is going to roll up in a truck and try to steal your food you better kill that dude. Then keep the truck and gasoline. Sheesh why would you want to destroy a perfectly good truck because of some punk thug? :biggrin:

Bx3 | 01-19-2009 03:08 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Not to mention you might hit some of your vegies!:coolbeer:

Twisted Avatar | 01-19-2009 08:13 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by BullionVince (Post 1518298) Case in Point, I awake in the middle of the night to see someone with an F-450 Super Duty loaded up with all of my vegetables he just stashed away in the bed of his truck. I grab my rifle and get into position. His tires are spinning and he is starting to rock back and forth trying to break free. Wow, this ahole just looted my garden in the middle of the night. As I move closer he sees me and gives me the one finger salute as his vehicle starts rolling away. I have two high cap mags in each hand, with the weapon strapped over my shoulder. Do I load my Silver Bear soft points or do I reach for a magazine of this stuff? I don't want to kill the guy but he is shooting me the finger as he starts rolling off. Will I be able to disable the engine block with one or two well placed shots using my soft points or am I going to need just a little more power? There are many potential uses maybe. Not just biological targets but mechanized units are something to take into consideration. These scenarios can keep me up at night.:10_1_19:
Wow.........its already starting.

Twisted Avatar | 01-19-2009 08:20 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? I would get it just for the simple fact that it MIGHT gives us the edge should the moment of truth ever come. There was a guy in a another forum that said he has shotgun shells that spit flames over a hundread feet when asked why he has it he said that is his "end of line ammo" If he grabs that mag it It dont make a diffrence as he isnt coming back. People are getting some wild thoughts about what the hell is gonna be going down(even wilder than mines) Cant hurt....... pick up a 2 mags full. T

eat_beef | 01-19-2009 08:31 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Steel core is NOT AP. All 7.62x39 will punch kevlar, and 1/4 inch mild steel plate, as will just about any rifle cartridge. What would you rather have, 50 rounds of Chicom steel core, or a full spam can of Wolf? BTW, if you want to punch motor blocks, you should throw away that x39 and step up to a full power battle rifle cartridge.

Twisted Avatar | 01-19-2009 08:41 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1518491) Steel core is NOT AP. All 7.62x39 will punch kevlar, and 1/4 inch mild steel plate, as will just about any rifle cartridge. What would you rather have, 50 rounds of Chicom steel core, or a full spam can of Wolf?
This stuff is dam near impossible to come by nowadays I think I saw a few auctions on Gunbroker but I am not certain. Really tuff to find. T

Phaedrus | 01-19-2009 09:27 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? I would be worried about corrosiveness and function with foreign manufactured and/or old/dated ammunition. There are dealers that sell remanufactured (pulls and reloads) older AP (steel core) bullets into non-corrosive loads as it is illegal to manufacture and sell new AP ammo to civvies. As far as I knew, federal law allows only existing (read: 30 caliber 30-06) AP ammo. A loophole if you will. In some states this is still illegal. Check your state laws.

elroy | 01-19-2009 10:37 AM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1518475) There was a guy in a another forum that said he has shotgun shells that spit flames over a hundread feet when asked why he has it he said that is his "end of line ammo" If he grabs that mag it It dont make a diffrence as he isnt coming back.
I've seen this stuff and considered buying some. What if scenario, night time, dogs starts barking so you start looking around investigating. You soon realize there are one or more people near your perimeter. Quietly in the dark you crack a window and stick the barrel of your 12ga out. BOOM!!!!!! you shoot 100 feet of flame and sparks out into the night, all the way across your yard toward the perps. Are the perps going to stick around to see what is next? I doubt it. The fear factor this stuff would generate at night would be great.

rad | 01-19-2009 12:20 PM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? 1 Attachment(s) Good for shock value but if they are that close just shooting them might be scarier. http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...specialty-ammo

SLV>GLD | 01-19-2009 12:26 PM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy (Post 1518685) I've seen this stuff and considered buying some. What if scenario, night time, dogs starts barking so you start looking around investigating. You soon realize there are one or more people near your perimeter. Quietly in the dark you crack a window and stick the barrel of your 12ga out. BOOM!!!!!! you shoot 100 feet of flame and sparks out into the night, all the way across your yard toward the perps. Are the perps going to stick around to see what is next? I doubt it. The fear factor this stuff would generate at night would be great.
I'd expect your lawn to ignite shortly thereafter. Do they make 12ga fire extinguisher shells you could follow up with? :)

SilverCity | 01-19-2009 12:33 PM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1518908) I'd expect your lawn to ignite shortly thereafter. Do they make 12ga fire extinguisher shells you could follow up with? :)
Middle-aged female approached me in a gun store one time and asked me if I knew of anything for 12 gauge that was non-lethal as she didn't want to actually HURT anyone. With a dead-pan look, I suggested the "Dragon's Breath" rounds..."cuz you can light him on fire so he can see to get out of your house SAFELY at night". She did a double-take and shot me a look that could peel paint...:biggrin:

SLV>GLD | 01-19-2009 12:48 PM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1518944) Middle-aged female approached me in a gun store one time and asked me if I knew of anything for 12 gauge that was non-lethal as she didn't want to actually HURT anyone.
I would have suggested blanks (do they make those?) but make sure to hand the guy some earplugs first.:banghead::biggrin:

desertjack | 01-19-2009 02:08 PM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by BullionVince (Post 1518117) I noticed some steel core ammo that is advertised as Armor Piercing. I am guessing this is the banned from importation Chinese stuff I have been hearing so much about. What makes this a must have for the astronomical prices? Is there any difference firing this rather than the Russian made stuff. I looked before but didn't see this for sale in weeks past. Are gun dealers liquidating, so they don't get left holding the bag? Hmmmm.... I can assume this will be a no-no under the new regime. http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...roducts_id/186 What say you?
Just for general info; All steel core 7.62x39 was banned from importation and made illegal to sell by dealers around 1993 due to Olympic Arms making a version of their OA-93 pistol chambered for this caliber. The "Cop killer bullet" law was passed in the late 80's making steel core pistol bullets illegal, regardless whether they contained hardened steel cores (real AP) or soft steel (not much harder than lead). This law can apply to any caliber if a pistol is manufactured to fire it. An odd exception to this is SS-109 5.56mm ammo which has a partial steel core (soft steel not AP), which we know there are now a large number of pistol type weapons around to fire it.

Twisted Avatar | 01-19-2009 02:16 PM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy (Post 1518685) I've seen this stuff and considered buying some. What if scenario, night time, dogs starts barking so you start looking around investigating. You soon realize there are one or more people near your perimeter. Quietly in the dark you crack a window and stick the barrel of your 12ga out. BOOM!!!!!! you shoot 100 feet of flame and sparks out into the night, all the way across your yard toward the perps. Are the perps going to stick around to see what is next? I doubt it. The fear factor this stuff would generate at night would be great.
DAM !!! I Gotta get some of that stuff........could you imagine what the Blackbooters would do if they saw a 100ft wall of fall heading at them??? They may be "bullet proof" but who the hell wants to find out of they are "fire proof"? There is a primal fear about fire that makes the tuffest guy piss his dam pants if he thinks he might get burned alive. Yup...... that is DEFINATELY on the buy list now.:bear_thumb: T

SLV>GLD | 01-19-2009 02:24 PM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? The fire rounds are spendy. I'm attracted to the idea but not the price. That's like 50 rounds of 00 buckshot for 9 "measly" rounds of fire and brimstone raining down from an angry god. Now that I think about it I'm thinking just one box might be worth the spend. :)

Twisted Avatar | 01-19-2009 02:40 PM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1519194) The fire rounds are spendy. I'm attracted to the idea but not the price. That's like 50 rounds of 00 buckshot for 9 "measly" rounds of fire and brimstone raining down from an angry god. Now that I think about it I'm thinking just one box might be worth the spend. :)
Yup That is all you need is 9 rounds..... After you fire the first two anybody with a lick of dam sense will be long gone. I know my @$$ would. T

mick silver | 01-19-2009 02:46 PM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? i got some here i pay 35 per 100 now there alot higher but there the 223 http://www.smokewagongear.com/default.aspx

mick silver | 01-19-2009 02:48 PM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? http://www.smokewagongear.com/p-156-...am855clip.aspx they may have the ak47 stuff

JJ_ | 01-19-2009 03:23 PM
Re: Steel Core Ammo AP? Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1519194) The fire rounds are spendy. I'm attracted to the idea but not the price. That's like 50 rounds of 00 buckshot for 9 "measly" rounds of fire and brimstone raining down from an angry god. Now that I think about it I'm thinking just one box might be worth the spend. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1519216) Yup That is all you need is 9 rounds.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1519216) After you fire the first two anybody with a lick of dam sense will be long gone. I know my @$$ would. T
2 words... Think - "gas tank" on the news... :MIA:http://images.netshow.ninemsn.com.au...238/113238.jpg

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