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- - Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=377608)

southfork | 05-24-2009 10:19 PM
Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Lohttp://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/psl.jpgoking at one of these, 699.00 any one have one/ Likes /Didlikes?

bwelkk | 05-24-2009 10:24 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? What are you going to use it for? It wouldn't make a very good tactical long distance rifle.

Goldfinger | 05-24-2009 10:25 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Here is another thread for a bit more info... http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=371607

southfork | 05-24-2009 10:44 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by bwelkk (Post 1737036) What are you going to use it for? It wouldn't make a very good tactical long distance rifle.
Ive heard they are good over 500 yards.

elroy | 05-24-2009 11:07 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? If you can get one for $699, that is a good price. Very good. If I had the option I would look for one with an 8x scope.

bwelkk | 05-24-2009 11:50 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by southfork (Post 1737058) Ive heard they are good over 500 yards.
7.62x54R will still have lots enough punch at 500, but the guys I know who've got them say they can only get 2.5MOA from them, so that puts it at 12.5" groups at 500.

Julian | 05-25-2009 02:24 AM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Aren't mags for these things pretty few and far between?

eat_beef | 05-25-2009 09:39 AM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Mags are out there, but they're expensive, esp. when you consider they're only 10 rounders. 12.5" at 500 still puts a man down. The rifles are robust and accurate enough, but the optics are rudimentary, and the trigger is far from match grade. The main problem is ammo, there's a lack of true match grade ammo (even the Russian stuff is nothing like M118 or FGMM), and there aren't even any nice pills for handloaders. That said, a man who knows what he's about can be quite effective with one well beyond 500 yards.

CrufflerJJ | 05-25-2009 10:55 AM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1737506) The main problem is ammo, there's a lack of true match grade ammo (even the Russian stuff is nothing like M118 or FGMM), and there aren't even any nice pills for handloaders.
The Sierra Matchking for .303 Brit & 7.7 Japanese (0.311" diameter) works nicely as a match bullet for 7.62x54R. These run ~$31 for a box of 100. They're heavier (174 grain HPBT) than the normal light ball bullet you run through a PSL, so light loads are usually recommended to avoid battering the rifle to death.

southfork | 05-25-2009 08:01 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Any thoughts then on an alternate rifle good out to 700 or 800 yards? Not wanting a 50bmg.

sindgefallen | 05-25-2009 09:24 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Yes a great alternative is the Springfield M1A. Tested through time and fricking awesome. As for the Druganov type you originally referred to I would say it is a great rifle. The round is great and the model (I don't know about that specific manufacturer) is reliable. Iraqi Snipers used them as well as Mosin Nagants in Iraq. But they used them in an urban situation at around 50-100 meters. Many snipers that I have worked with have regarded the Druganov as a paltry long distance rifle and generally should be used for aimed shots at around 250 meters. As for 500 yards I have never heard this but would not doubt it having the ability to take out a man by a talented marksman. Good rifle to add to the collection inmho.

bwelkk | 05-25-2009 09:52 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? An M1A will not make accurate 700-800 yard shots without thousands of dollars worth of modification. To obtain somewhat flat trajectory at that range, I would suggest something in .338 Lapua or at least .300 Win Mag. Expensive to shoot, but then what isn't these days? It's not going to come cheap, but ask your local gunsmiths about putting together a Sako action with Kreiger barrel on a quality stock. See if you can find a long range tactical rifle mentor who has been through the process of putting one together to help you along.

eat_beef | 05-26-2009 12:16 AM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by bwelkk (Post 1738387) An M1A will not make accurate 700-800 yard shots without thousands of dollars worth of modification. To obtain somewhat flat trajectory at that range, I would suggest something in .338 Lapua or at least .300 Win Mag. Expensive to shoot, but then what isn't these days? It's not going to come cheap, but ask your local gunsmiths about putting together a Sako action with Kreiger barrel on a quality stock. See if you can find a long range tactical rifle mentor who has been through the process of putting one together to help you along.
You're completely full of it. The M14 platform is quite accurate, and 'souping one up' will cost less than the cost of the original rifle in most cases. Now if you want to build a Crazy Horse... The 7.62MM cartridge has been scoring kills at and beyond 1000 yards for over 5 decades, and counting. BTW, trajectory has ZERO to do with accuracy.:bear_rolleyes: Cruffler- I don't reload x54, but I have some friends who do, and their experience is that the heavy 303 bullets don't yeild significantly better accuracy than light ball.

bwelkk | 05-26-2009 12:51 AM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Oh look, another M-14 apologist. Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1738563) BTW, trajectory has ZERO to do with accuracy.:bear_rolleyes:
Did I claim it did? Flatter trajectory (faster, higher ballistic coefficient) allows more room for error when estimating range, and that's a good thing. Faster shooting rounds are also less affected by crosswinds. When shooting at long distances, faster rounds are better and semi-automatic fire is often a handicap..

CrufflerJJ | 05-26-2009 08:02 AM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1738563) Cruffler- I don't reload x54, but I have some friends who do, and their experience is that the heavy 303 bullets don't yeild significantly better accuracy than light ball.
Thanks for the info!:wavey: Are they shooting it in a PSL type rifle, or a Mosin Nagant? The folks I've dealt with in online collectors' lists (Finnish Mosin Nagants & ComBloc PU Sniper rifles, mostly) always seem to find that loading with match .303 bullets give better accuracy than standard light ball stuff. They also tend to say that Lapua bullets (properly sized for your rifle's bore) can result in even better accuracy. And better wallet draining potential ($$$). If match bullets aren't available, I guess the next best thing for a handloader might be to sort/segregate bullets by weight & cases by headstamp & water holding capacity (also weight). That should help to minimize shot to shot variation.

CrufflerJJ | 05-26-2009 08:08 AM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by southfork (Post 1738230) Any thoughts then on an alternate rifle good out to 700 or 800 yards? Not wanting a 50bmg.
How about a Remington 700 Varmint Synthetic rifle in .308? Nice thick barrel, good stock with pillar bedding, crappy trigger pull (but easily tweaked)? Another option might be a Savage 110FP. Add some good glass, and you'd be good to go. As with any rifle for handling stuff at 700-800 yards, training & practice is probably more important than the weapon system itself.

eat_beef | 05-26-2009 09:21 AM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by bwelkk (Post 1738589) Oh look, another M-14 apologist. Did I claim it did? Flatter trajectory (faster, higher ballistic coefficient) allows more room for error when estimating range, and that's a good thing. Faster shooting rounds are also less affected by crosswinds. When shooting at long distances, faster rounds are better and semi-automatic fire is often a handicap..
No need for an apologist for the best weapons platform ever fielded. Actually, by suggesting one needs a super mag to obtain a flat trajectory, you did. Cruffler has hit the nail on the head. Repeatable hits past 400 yards require a LOT of practice. As always, it's SOFTWARE, not hardware. Very few people can afford to buy/build enough 300WM ammo to get up to speed, and no one without a trust fund or a .gov budget can do it with the .338. Note I'm not dissing the calibers, I have a 300WM, and have a .338 ultra (95% of the Lapua's performance, half it's cost) in my future. But the SKILLS were and are being built with cheap 308 ammo. BTW, the 338 is for distances well in excess of 800 yards, and no, I'm not consistent at 800 yards yet.

obilly | 05-26-2009 01:03 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? the best defense for 100-500 yards is to runaway, 50-100 yards lock and load, 25-50 yards take aim, 0-25 yards shoot them. being said, never defend ground, always, if you can runaway. think 12ga 00 buck,,,????? where I live you can't see more than 75 yards in any direction, long range high power might not be the ideal weapon,,,,,i can not see a reason to defend at 500 yards,,,ofense maybe,,,,,,just my opinion, means nothing to nobody but me, ,,,,as always I am open to correction....

igorthesmall | 05-26-2009 02:02 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1738871) No need for an apologist for the best weapons platform ever fielded. Actually, by suggesting one needs a super mag to obtain a flat trajectory, you did. Cruffler has hit the nail on the head. Repeatable hits past 400 yards require a LOT of practice. As always, it's SOFTWARE, not hardware. Very few people can afford to buy/build enough 300WM ammo to get up to speed, and no one without a trust fund or a .gov budget can do it with the .338. Note I'm not dissing the calibers, I have a 300WM, and have a .338 ultra (95% of the Lapua's performance, half it's cost) in my future. But the SKILLS were and are being built with cheap 308 ammo. BTW, the 338 is for distances well in excess of 800 yards, and no, I'm not consistent at 800 yards yet.
I guess cheap is a relative term nowadays!

CrufflerJJ | 05-26-2009 06:50 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by igorthesmall (Post 1739278) I guess cheap is a relative term nowadays!
Agreed!:emotions16: I don't think there's any "cheap" ammo on the market nowadays, especially .308 or 7.62x51. Maybe if you reload & already have the components.....

bwelkk | 05-26-2009 07:03 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by igorthesmall (Post 1739278) I guess cheap is a relative term nowadays!
Yes it is. .338 rifles are actually chambered for 5 dollar bills.

Unclad Lad | 05-30-2009 01:28 AM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? The first question is, do you really need 700 to 800 yds of range? No, really. That is a long distance, and while sub-MOA accuracy half a mile away is great, most of us will never do so, partly because the tech and the mods will cost much more than the rifle itself. And you won't need to make that kind of shot, and even if you did, without a lot of training you don't already have, you couldn't hit your target anyway. Quote:
Originally Posted by obilly the best defense for 100-500 yards is to runaway, 50-100 yards lock and load, 25-50 yards take aim, 0-25 yards shoot them.
Wiser words were never uttered by a noob! And remember, all weapons are a compromise. The PSL gives you the ability to make quite accurate shots (out to a certain distance) quickly (semiauto), at a reasonable price. An M1A will probably be more accurate at a greater difference, but it will more than triple your cost.

SimpleIsGood229 | 06-09-2009 05:52 PM
Re: Thinking of this 7.62x54 any thoughts? Check out www.gunboards.com . They can tell you everything you need to know and then some.

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