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- - HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=273705)

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 06-12-2008 11:33 PM
HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? I would like a Remington 870 Police Magnum pump-action, and yet the high ROF of the Benelli semi-autos is sorely tempting me. Which way would you go, and why?

foolsgold | 06-12-2008 11:49 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? I am not advocating one over the other as I don't have enough experience to do so....But I bought the Remington 870 Express Magnum and it came with two barrels 26" smooth for shot and a 20" rifled for slugs. I like it. It is a 12 gauge and when you shoot a slug my God does it kick. I paid $300 and some odd dollars for the thing.

Libertarian_Guard | 06-13-2008 12:14 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? I don't know if an automatic shotgun will ALWAYS feed reliably. But I know that a pump action will - - or at least in my hands it will. I always thought it was cool unloading an automatic shotgun, with the butt plate on the floor, and keeping your head away from the end of the barrel, pushing down on the barrel and letting it spring back up as the rounds kicked out.

dogear | 06-13-2008 12:28 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? 870 and save $....I read an article on pump vs semi-auto and the conclusion after testing was with practice one can achieve equal rof with a pump...seems reasonable to me...plus a pump might be less finicky, more reliable, imho.

RR_58 | 06-13-2008 02:30 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? I like the noise the slide makes when you pump it.

Black Blade | 06-13-2008 03:02 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? It all depends on your needs. I have my over/unders for upland game/birds and my 10 ga Browning semi-auto to slay ducks and geese. But to fend off the Zombie hordes something a little more substantial is preferable: http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/protecta.jpg http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wb...sweeper-ls.jpg

Lars Ragnarsson | 06-13-2008 03:12 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Quote:
Originally Posted by dogear (Post 1144342) 870 and save $....I read an article on pump vs semi-auto and the conclusion after testing was with practice one can achieve equal rof with a pump...seems reasonable to me...plus a pump might be less finicky, more reliable, imho.
This is great advice, Hive. When we moved to the farm when I was 13, I learned to hunt pheasants with a Remington pump (don't recall the model) that my Grandpa used when he hunted. Most of my friends used a pump, too. The pump motion is very natural, and I could get three shots off (the mag had to be plugged so the gun could only take 3 rounds) just as fast as a guy with a semi-auto. And with accuracy - dropped several birds on the 3rd shot. As far as reliability goes, I've never had a malfunction with a pump. Even though I've got a semi-auto 12 ga., I've never used it. Just always liked the pumps.

leadfoot | 06-13-2008 05:38 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? I voted pump. But there's always one of these.
one of these.

Victor | 06-13-2008 07:23 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Hive, Not sure if your heart is set on a Police 870 or not but Remington makes a Model 870 Express Synthetic. Bead sight, has an extended tube, 7 round cap., black matte finish with black plastic furniture. I bought one in 20ga and love the thing. Reason I bring it up was it was a bit cheaper new than a Police model that was used. At least around me it was. Can't go wrong with the 870 though. Parts and add-ons are all over the place and they run forever.

JJ_ | 06-13-2008 09:14 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Classic pro con deal - I'd say that reliability is the thing you need to be focusing on. Pump it is. (and now that this poll has been posted, my handle has been used in its correct context:D)

Drumblebum | 06-13-2008 10:28 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Full auto...check this out - YouTube - aa-12 full auto shotgun
YouTube - aa-12 full auto shotgun

Big_Rob | 06-13-2008 10:30 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Pump action for the win!

Drumblebum | 06-13-2008 10:30 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor (Post 1144566) Hive, Not sure if your heart is set on a Police 870 or not but Remington makes a Model 870 Express Synthetic. Bead sight, has an extended tube, 7 round cap., black matte finish with black plastic furniture. I bought one in 20ga and love the thing. Reason I bring it up was it was a bit cheaper new than a Police model that was used. At least around me it was. Can't go wrong with the 870 though. Parts and add-ons are all over the place and they run forever.
I got that same gun with an 18" barrel and a +2 tube. Everyone needs at least one 870 IMHO.

TomD | 06-13-2008 11:09 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Semi-auto has one big going for it, recoil reduction. A good portion of the energy felt as recoil goes into cycling the action. If you've never fired a light shotgun shooting 3" slugs or buckshot, that is a major league kick. If you're using the thing for real, you wouldn't notice it though.

SLV>GLD | 06-13-2008 11:17 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 1144898) If you're using the thing for real, you wouldn't notice it though.
I keep that in mind at all times when firing any kicking long arm. I also like to think, "If this end of the gun hurts me this bad I can only imagine the pain felt on the other end!". Beware tearing your retinas, though.

<SLV> | 06-13-2008 12:02 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Beretta Xtrema II, or if you are on a budget, Saiga 12 w/10-round mags. YouTube - beretta shotgun xtrema2 (pusca cu recul mic)
YouTube - beretta shotgun xtrema2 (pusca cu recul mic)
YouTube - Full Auto Saiga-12 (Alliance Armament)
YouTube - Full Auto Saiga-12 (Alliance Armament)

Seleukus Nikator | 06-13-2008 12:06 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? moss 590 I like. all the comp shooters use the benelli auto. its pretty reliable, actually, but I still like the racking and man I can rack fast.

Mike C | 06-13-2008 06:43 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Pump action for me. You can have 15 cops all surrounding a felon with little glocks, but when that one cop pulls out a shotgun and racks it, that thug's attention is right there on it. I've seen it in action on a felony stop of a couple robbery suspects, we all had the glocks, but when that shotgun came out, compliance was easy!

TTAZZMAN | 06-13-2008 07:15 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? I personally have witnessed both Pumps and Sauto shotguns jamb or missfire the only advantage i have seen with the pump is you can clear a bad cartridge and the warning you can give with the distinctive sound of a 870pump cycling and lower cost it is important to know your ammo works and cycles with a semi-auto i have seen people bring benelli's to the range with low brass and they wont cycle correctly i have also seen pumps not be able to clear some of the newer longer crimp shells so i think its important to be sure your ammo and firearm are matched and tested prior to a shtf situation

Lars Ragnarsson | 06-13-2008 11:19 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1145581) I personally have witnessed both Pumps and Sauto shotguns jamb or missfire the only advantage i have seen with the pump is you can clear a bad cartridge and the warning you can give with the distinctive sound of a 870pump cycling and lower cost it is important to know your ammo works and cycles with a semi-auto i have seen people bring benelli's to the range with low brass and they wont cycle correctly i have also seen pumps not be able to clear some of the newer longer crimp shells so i think its important to be sure your ammo and firearm are matched and tested prior to a shtf situation
Good point. If you're out in the field trying to knock down ducks and geese, have at it with the 3" magnum loads. But for SHTF, I don't see any reason not to go with the 2 3/4". The 2 3/4" are cheaper, you can get at least another round in the tube on most models, and you're less likely to have that fail to clear problem. And they'll do the job just the same.

EdThePilot | 06-13-2008 11:41 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Ragnarsson (Post 1144447) This is great advice, Hive. When we moved to the farm when I was 13, I learned to hunt pheasants with a Remington pump (don't recall the model) that my Grandpa used when he hunted. Most of my friends used a pump, too. The pump motion is very natural, and I could get three shots off (the mag had to be plugged so the gun could only take 3 rounds) just as fast as a guy with a semi-auto. And with accuracy - dropped several birds on the 3rd shot. As far as reliability goes, I've never had a malfunction with a pump. Even though I've got a semi-auto 12 ga., I've never used it. Just always liked the pumps.
Seconded. I've seen a guy use an old beat-up 870 or Ithaca for sporting clays, he's way better than most I've seen with an auto. It all comes down to practice and what you're used to.

BobS | 06-14-2008 03:45 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? One point no one seems to have considered is that of the handicapped hunter/shooter. Since I am new on this board, I do not know anyone personally, so I must use an example from my own background. A friend I grew up with shoots right handed, but he has no left hand (birth defect). Although he uses a "claw" (his term, not mine) for a left hand, he is incapable of racking a shotgun. 8 years ago, I bought him an HK/Benelli Super 90 with the pistol grip for going out hunting with our group. The point to this post is 2 fold: 1. Individual preferances are fine, but a physical handicap CAN be overcome with a bit of thought. 2. NEVER discount personal determination to "make do" with what you have been given in life...make the most of what you CAN do. Best regards to all, Bob

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 06-17-2008 12:29 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? You guys have me pretty much convinced that I should get the 870 Police Magnum. I favor the wood furniture type, of course, but this will require a special order. Not a problem for my local 01 FFL, but he does have a Police Magnum with synthetic furniture in-stock right now. Oh boy - decisions, decisions... :bear_sad:

SAUM | 06-17-2008 01:13 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Just for the record, I bought a Mossberg 500A for $209 at wally world. It initially would hold 3 plus one in the chamber. I took the tube off and pulled a plug (piece of dowel) out and it now holds six all together. I've been using it for a trap gun and it performs well except for one small hitch that is probably partially my problem. On the trap range I generally load one shell in the tube, chamber one, and reload after each shot, all while catching the spent hull so that I don't have to pick it up off of the ground. On occasion I do not close the chamber completely which leaves me with in a mis-fire situation. To Mossberg's credit it does not fire out of battery. Aside from that issue I have put about 600 rounds through the gun in the last two months and it has done quite well for me. If I were in the field using the gun to hunt or in a defense situation I do not think the "open chamber" problem would present it's self because I would be racking the gun in a harder manner rather than just closing it. Almost forgot to mention that the trigger group bracket is plastic.

tojaktoty | 06-17-2008 02:22 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Saiga 12 with Mike's 20 round drum. Get them while you still can. YouTube - Saiga-12 fan
YouTube - Saiga-12 fan

AMforPM | 06-25-2008 12:51 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? My deciding factor is the wife must be able to use it too. Thus my choices must be from highly reliable semi autos like the Remington 1100 and perhaps the new Mossberg. I have to say, at twice the price, that beretta is very tempting. The falling FRN will only drive it higher so maybe I should bite the bullet :wink: now and get the Beretta. I don't want to type our current defenses on the web.

AMforPM | 06-25-2008 01:21 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Quote:
with practice one can achieve equal rof with a pump
Dad always said pumps were faster than autos and I believe it, but the wife doing the pumping changes the story.

Lackluster | 06-25-2008 06:17 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM (Post 1161765) Dad always said pumps were faster than autos and I believe it, but the wife doing the pumping changes the story.
Yeah, men are generally better at pumping.

Canadian-guerilla | 06-25-2008 06:00 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? i'd take a pump if only for the psychological sound effect

twenty4karat | 06-25-2008 07:26 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 1144275) I would like a Remington 870 Police Magnum pump-action, and yet the high ROF of the Benelli semi-autos is sorely tempting me. Which way would you go, and why?
The 870 Magnum is a fine tuned tool. It is a tight cycling totally dependable 12 ga. And yes, when you chamber that first round, that alone will make the bad guy sh*t his pants while he's runnin' away (just ask one of my daughters old high school friend, who woke me up at 3 A.M. tossin' pebbles at her window). Maranatha, :smile:

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- - HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=273705)

Ag_man | 06-25-2008 08:46 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? My choice is the Rem. 1100 for hunting (that second, quick follow-up shot has downed many a pheasant), with my 870 Marine Magnum for home defense. I have nothing against Mossbergs, I have a 500 20 ga, that I picked up for my daughter. A Saiga is definitely in my future.

Silver Moon Rising | 06-25-2008 09:31 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 1163028) i'd take a pump if only for the psychological sound effect
I agree! A friend heard a window get broken downstairs in the middle of the night and grabbed his 12 ga. pump and raced downstairs. He saw a gloved hand reach through and pull the curtain aside. He racked the gun and the hand quickly withdrew. He went up to the window and saw the crook running for his life across the field! Sometimes it is good to have that sound that is universally understood!

Abouthadit | 06-25-2008 11:24 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot (Post 1144498) I voted pump. But there's always one of these.
Yeah buddy. And the Saiga allow you mix different length shells, or so I've heard.

AZLiberty | 06-26-2008 11:53 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Pump. 1) A pump will be reliable with all shells, self-loaders will always be more limited in ammo selection. 2) A pump is actually faster on a follow-up shot than an autoloader because the pump action helps pull the shotgun back on target. Personally I prefer the Mossberg 500 or 590 to the Rem 870 because I prefer a tang safety. There is nothing wrong with the Rem theough.

AZLiberty | 06-27-2008 10:55 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM (Post 1161734) My deciding factor is the wife must be able to use it too. Thus my choices must be from highly reliable semi autos like the Remington 1100 and perhaps the new Mossberg. I have to say, at twice the price, that beretta is very tempting. The falling FRN will only drive it higher so maybe I should bite the bullet :wink: now and get the Beretta. I don't want to type our current defenses on the web.
I would NEVER put "highly reliable" and Remington 1100 in the same sentence. The 1100 is notorious for being finicky about low base ammo. We just put a new barrel on my Dad's 1100 with the short chamber and 2 gas ports, now it only jams once or twice a box instead of every other shot. The Rem 1187 is supposed to be much better.

elroy | 06-27-2008 11:36 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? I have a Remington 870 Marine Magnum and it is a nice gun. However it came with a failure to cycle after firing a round. The slide would lock up. A friend that builds 1911 race guns repaired it for me and now it runs great. I've always lusted after the parkerized Mossberg 590 with the ghost ring sights. It looks like a very serious piece of equipment.

Keef | 07-02-2008 10:55 PM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? 1 Attachment(s) Here I thought I might not get a gun. But let's be realistic, life in the future may become more brutal then we are used too.. much more brutal. So, after being in the Philippines and seeing these private security guys EVERYWHERE and their pistol grip pump shotguns old keef just had to get one. They are intimidating as hell. I remember the first time I saw these guns in manila. It was my first day in that dirty city and I was stumbling around the street like a gringo looking for an ATM that would generously spew out pictures of their past and previous dictators on colored paper.. Needed pesos. Kids and street hustlers everywhere. Suddenly and fast, this armored car pulled up and six guys with these pistol-grip shotguns jumped out and are all around me. They ruled the street. Really intimidating, but they like us gringos, it was the local banditos they looked out for. And like I said these guys were EVERYWHERE, you got used to them quick. Local police force was not to be found out in the boonies. And the few I did see made me nervous. Anyhow, I liked the pump pistol grip Mossberg ever since and I just picked one up. I feel it's the proper tool for the upcoming apocalypse and keep it next to my easy chair. Call it my "manila special." Imagine six of these cats just appearing out of nowhere when your all hungover on the streets of a strange country walking up on a bank.. You just grow an instant respect/attachment for that weapon right on the spot. You can't help but freeze for a fraction of a second as you almost hear the 'KA-raack' sound of the slider just lookin at the guy. and he is standing right in ur face. I found you suddenly walk softly... and learn to smile. It was like the old west over there and I liked it... And I never 'covet' much of anything, maybe pump shotguns and young company of the female persuasion.. It just seemed more like life should be... and if ur really bold, these cats make bizarre street weapons in their backyards. http://www.illegaleconomy.com/firear...s_produced.php

GoldWampum | 07-03-2008 12:22 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Eggzalent choice Keef. I like the new avatar. Watched the movie Ned Kelly last night. O'Rourke's character had a kick ass pistol grip sawed off double barrel. Not s'post ta be envious but... hey well. That Mossberg is badass by the by!!

Curtman | 07-03-2008 01:12 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldWampum (Post 1174259) Eggzalent choice Keef. I like the new avatar.
Isn't that Father Guido Sarducci? Vita est Lavorum
Vita est Lavorum

GoldWampum | 07-03-2008 01:56 AM
Re: HivePoll on 12 ga. shotguns: pump-action, or semi-auto? 10-4 good buddy. Good call. Nice to hear from you Curtman. Funny clip. I love that guy.

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