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- - Would you register your guns? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=367711)

bonaparte | 04-15-2009 08:59 PM
Would you register your guns? If the Federal government passed legislation requiring all firearms to be registered: Would you register your firearms?

maximumrebel1 | 04-15-2009 09:06 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? If I hadn't had the boating accident in the Atlantic where all my guns were lost at sea I would most definitely register them.

gbgunner | 04-15-2009 09:09 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? It's just registration, not confiscation. What's the big deal?

Willie Peter | 04-15-2009 09:14 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by gbgunner (Post 1679577) It's just registration, not confiscation. What's the big deal?
:111:.......

skyvike | 04-15-2009 09:21 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by bonaparte (Post 1679567) If the Federal government passed legislation requiring all firearms to be registered: Would you register your firearms?
Article I of the US Constitution, which outlines the authorities and limitations of the congress, has this to say in Section 9: No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed. Ex post facto means "retroactively" and this clause means a law cannot be passed that makes one responsible for doing something that's illegal now, that wasn't illegal when he did it in the first place. Without this clause, it would have been possible, after the passing of the 14th amendment, to jail all former slave owners. If I owned any firearms, I would have acquired them when there was no requirement for registration. Thus passing a "registration" requirement would not apply to me. Furthermore, let's look at the term "infringe." Quote:
1: to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another <infringe a patent> 2obsolete : defeat, frustrate Synonym: Trespass
is what Webster has to say about it. Requiring registration, would definitely "encroach" upon my right to bear arms. It would frustrate it, with the aim of defeating it. It has the effect of transforming a right in to a privilege, which the SCOTUS has determined cannot be allowed. It boils down to this: I have sworn to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States" at least seven times in military and civilian service and I do not consider separation from service to mean I can repudiate the obligations contained therein. I remain obligated to this principle in perpetuity. Registration of firearms by the Federal Government would violate the Constitution and I am obligated to avoid doing that. And I won't.

Aussie | 04-15-2009 09:29 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by gbgunner (Post 1679577) It's just registration, not confiscation. What's the big deal?
They know what you have and where you have it now . . . once on record, it's pretty easy to join the dots for what happens next.

Canadian-guerilla | 04-15-2009 09:32 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by bonaparte (Post 1679567) If the Federal government passed legislation requiring all firearms to be registered: Would you register your firearms?
only the ones that had paperwork

foolsgold | 04-15-2009 10:01 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? I live in NYS and cannot legally purchase a gun (to my knowledge) without registering it. So the store did a FBI background check while I waited to purchase the 870. I spent $200+ on a Surefire weapon light so if I confront a bad guy at night I can illuminate him before killing him. This gun is deadly force which I intend to use if my life is threatened. It's not a toy, I don't play with it. I took a hunter safety course to learn fundimental gun safety, but I don't hunt. I shoot trap at the range so I'm confident handling it. I can easily shoot it safely but not legally on my land, becase of restrictive NYS laws, so I don't shoot the gun on my land. I obey these laws because of my concience and would break them if I thought it was necessary.

Drumblebum | 04-15-2009 10:04 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? I live in CA, therefore I know of nothing BUT registration. Wish I had known before...but OH WELL!!!! :bear_angry:

platinumdude | 04-15-2009 10:17 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? I sold mines as a private sale. Guy paid cash, didn't get his name.

Big_Rob | 04-15-2009 10:22 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? HELL FUKC NO!

TTAZZMAN | 04-15-2009 10:25 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? I would probably find the need to register one gun in each caliber i shoot.....might be suspisious to be buying thousands of rounds of 308 and not have a gun to shoot them......might even buy one junk gun in each caliber just in case they wanted to confisticate at some time or for that matter a Thompson Contender with a hand full of barrels LOL

Twisted Avatar | 04-15-2009 10:56 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? REGISTRATION IS THE PRECURSOR CONFISCATION WHICH IS THE PRECURSOR TO GENEOCIDE. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS PLEASE REFER TO THE NEAREST HISTORY BOOK AND SEE IF THE ABOVE IS NOT TRUE. T

Maddie | 04-15-2009 10:57 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? No. I will not register my guns. I admit that it scares the bejeebers out of me. I know if they do this, the penalties are going to be big enough to frighten people into compliance. I know it's going to break up my marriage (my husband scoffs at those of us who feel strongly about the Second Amendment). I know there are worse things that could happen as a consequence of refusing registration. I've been steeling myself for a long time for this, and I dread the day I have to stand by my decision, but I won't register them. I believe registration will be the true beginning of the end for gun ownership rights, and that making that concession will make it next to impossible to salvage the Second Amendment. I've been pretty open about my intention to refuse compliance with registration. When the antis I know talk about registration, I tell them I will not register my guns. They look shocked, and I explain. When the day comes, half a dozen of them will probably race to turn me in! I think it's important that we speak out about this and not "go quietly" as it were. Many people who aren't interested in guns or the Constitution don't understand what a big deal this is, don't think it's anything of any consequence at all (they think it's a "common sense" sort of thing). They need to hear from us now that it is and that we won't accept it or play along.

Lars Ragnarsson | 04-15-2009 10:59 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Rob (Post 1679695) HELL FUKC NO!
Yeah, I was looking for that choice, too!

StrawMan=Corporation | 04-15-2009 11:11 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Where is CA ? IE Canada Eh or perhaps you meant Nazifornia? I'm sure you are aware that If you meant California CA would be a Federal Abbreviation and not the De Jure notation of California IE the state. And if you did mean California or Nazifornia as I lovingly refer to it there is always the semi free neighboring states to locate gun shows at. Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumblebum (Post 1679666) I live in CA, therefore I know of nothing BUT registration. Wish I had known before...but OH WELL!!!! :bear_angry:

St. Germain | 04-16-2009 12:41 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Guns are BAD. They KILL PEOPLE. My grandpa left me an old .22 - I don't think it even works, you guys can take it if you want too. I don't like having it around. Thanks for stopping by Officers. :biggrin:

madcow | 04-16-2009 12:46 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Mine are already registered as I bought them from stores, but there is no way in hell I'd turn them in if they became outlawed. I would not comply with orders to give them up and they would be quickly removed from the property never to be found if confiscations began. Yes, I would do the time if necessary as I feel that strongly about it. Quote:
I sold mines as a private sale. Guy paid cash, didn't get his name.
Exactly.

StrawMan=Corporation | 04-16-2009 02:19 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up. Everyone owns a backhoe right ? Quote:
Originally Posted by madcow (Post 1679880) Mine are already registered as I bought them from stores, but there is no way in hell I'd turn them in if they became outlawed. I would not comply with orders to give them up and they would be quickly removed from the property never to be found if confiscations began. Yes, I would do the time if necessary as I feel that strongly about it. Exactly.

morganchaser | 04-16-2009 02:36 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? I do all my gun purchasing through FFL's if that answers your question. NCIS background checks are just registration as far as I'm concerned. "Registration" is a can of worms that could encompass all sorts of nastys. I don't mind NCIS background checks now that they're here, but I would fight them tooth and nail if they were being proposed. I don't think "registration" means the same thing in polls as it does in law.

leadfoot | 04-16-2009 04:47 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Of course. it's for the children you know. A registered gun is a safe gun.

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 04-16-2009 04:52 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Guys I heard registered guns cannot kill people Y/N/Maybe???

RossL | 04-16-2009 07:26 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? unconstitutional laws are null and void

Agfinger | 04-16-2009 08:09 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by madcow (Post 1679880) Mine are already registered as I bought them from stores...
That's not registration....The 4473 form is only kept by the dealer and not given to BATFE unless they go to that particular dealer and ask to see that particular 4473 form...If the dealer ever goes out of business, they are then required to send all of their 4473 forms to BATFE...They currently have a FOOTBALL field sized warehouse that is stacked 25 feet hight with boxes of forms from defunct dealers.... They will never be able to use 4473 forms to locate a firearm....They can use a "certificate of origin" to start at where, when and who imported a particular firearm and then try to move down the chain that way..However, that is usually reserved for higher profile cases and I would imagine would be very time and labor intensive...

Twisted Avatar | 04-16-2009 09:13 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? 3 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawMan=Corporation (Post 1679944) Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up.
..............

Camp Bassfish | 04-16-2009 09:17 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? :cry1: I will just get rid of all mine....

Goldfinger007 | 04-16-2009 09:17 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? What Guns?

silverJeep | 04-16-2009 09:21 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? What guns?

Twisted Avatar | 04-16-2009 09:33 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 1679744) No. I will not register my guns. I admit that it scares the bejeebers out of me. I know if they do this, the penalties are going to be big enough to frighten people into compliance. I know it's going to break up my marriage (my husband scoffs at those of us who feel strongly about the Second Amendment). I know there are worse things that could happen as a consequence of refusing registration. I've been steeling myself for a long time for this, and I dread the day I have to stand by my decision, but I won't register them. I believe registration will be the true beginning of the end for gun ownership rights, and that making that concession will make it next to impossible to salvage the Second Amendment. I've been pretty open about my intention to refuse compliance with registration. When the antis I know talk about registration, I tell them I will not register my guns. They look shocked, and I explain. When the day comes, half a dozen of them will probably race to turn me in! I think it's important that we speak out about this and not "go quietly" as it were. Many people who aren't interested in guns or the Constitution don't understand what a big deal this is, don't think it's anything of any consequence at all (they think it's a "common sense" sort of thing). They need to hear from us now that it is and that we won't accept it or play along.
I sooooooooooooooooooooo feel you on this Sister Maddie It is sad day when you come to realization that those closet to you WILL FAIL WHEN IN THE KEY MOMENT. You then have a bitter pill to swallow as you have leave behind those whom you love BUT CAN NOT TRUST. A sad day indeed .............But we answer a call that few have the heart the hear because the sacrifice is so great. The Patriot walks a hard road and lives with the possibity of dying alone, mistunderstood or even being hated and scorned. No greater love than this: That The Few take up this great burden for the betterment of The Many.......

JJ_ | 04-16-2009 09:37 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Thankyou for providing this valuable survey to TPTB... They appreciate it.

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Brio | 04-16-2009 09:38 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? I don't get what the point of registration is. Honest people will do it and criminals won't so why bother? It's like locking your door, it only keeps out the good people and the crooks will just break the lock.

EE_ | 04-16-2009 10:13 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? I'm sure their intentions are for the safety of all. You do want to be safe, don't you?

gbgunner | 04-16-2009 10:22 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_ (Post 1680201) I'm sure their intentions are for the safety of all. You do want to be safe, don't you?
I do. It's common sense ! :sarc:

Bill843 | 04-16-2009 10:23 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by bonaparte (Post 1679567) If the Federal government passed legislation requiring all firearms to be registered: Would you register your firearms?
I picked "No & hide them", it was closest to what I'd expect to do. .If the govt passed a law requiring 100% registration, I would wonder how long it would be before they started going through all the dealer receipts. When they know where to look, they're going to come looking.... -end-

Twisted Avatar | 04-16-2009 10:24 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by EE_ (Post 1680201) I'm sure their intentions are for the safety of all. You do want to be safe, don't you?
......................

Agfinger | 04-16-2009 10:26 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1680216) I picked "No & hide them", it was closest to what I'd expect to do. .If the govt passed a law requiring 100% registration, I would wonder how long it would be before they started going through all the dealer receipts. When they know where to look, they're going to come looking.... -end-
Never happen....You could rebuild ancient Thesselonica easier... Refer to my earlier post.. http://goldismoney.info/forums/showp...2&postcount=24

morganchaser | 04-16-2009 10:37 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by Agfinger (Post 1680082) That's not registration....The 4473 form is only kept by the dealer and not given to BATFE unless they go to that particular dealer and ask to see that particular 4473 form...If the dealer ever goes out of business, they are then required to send all of their 4473 forms to BATFE...They currently have a FOOTBALL field sized warehouse that is stacked 25 feet hight with boxes of forms from defunct dealers.... They will never be able to use 4473 forms to locate a firearm....They can use a "certificate of origin" to start at where, when and who imported a particular firearm and then try to move down the chain that way..However, that is usually reserved for higher profile cases and I would imagine would be very time and labor intensive...
I disagree. They ask for the serial number and the type of gun when they do the NCIS background check for a reason. Going through an FFL IS registration. Cops have access to the full list. That's why when someone get's shot with an obscure caliber like 7.62x25, they can look up every gun that fires that caliber and a list of everyone who bought one at an FFL in the state.

SLV>GLD | 04-16-2009 10:41 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Thanks, Agfinger, for setting the record straight on what is and is not registration. I did understand the difference... however... I've never felt comfortable with the fact that when the background check is run the serial number of the firearm you intend to purchase IS included on NICS form. I refuse to believe that information is not recorded on the receiving end. Another caveat, in my state at least, is the multiple handgun purchase form. If you buy more than one at time it is an additional fee and form sent to the ATF. I call that a form of registration as it includes the serial numbers as well.

Agfinger | 04-16-2009 10:46 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by morganchaser (Post 1680253) I disagree. They ask for the serial number and the type of gun when they do the NCIS background check for a reason. Going through an FFL IS registration. Cops have access to the full list. That's why when someone get's shot with an obscure caliber like 7.62x25, they can look up every gun that fires that caliber and a list of everyone who bought one at an FFL in the state.
Incorrect....I don't know what Orwellian state you live in, but this is not the way it's done...CA, NY NJ or IL or some like shithole like that may have some state regulation about new purchases being mined from 4473's from such-and-such date forward, but not all firearms from any particular caliber whenever GCA 68 was passed and the 4473 forms were implemented .....Not in most free states. There is NO central database of sales by the Feds at all....Once again, the BATFE has a warehouse the size of a football field full of 4473's from dealers that died, went out of business, whatever....NONE of these are keyed into any database mainly because it would take 200 years and 3000 clerks to do it. By that time, there would be another half a football field from more defunct dealers that were ready to key in... You cannot imagine the impossibilities and the amount of 4473 forms from DEFUNCT dealers....That's not to mention still operating dealers and their files, none of which are databased by the Feds.. Using your example, if I bought a CZ52 or Chi-com Tokarev in 7.62x25 and that weapon was used in a murder, then the police would have to take a stab in the dark and visit every gun dealer in the city and pore through their records individually to see if any sold a weapon in that caliber.. The easier way would be to get the importers mark off the weapon, (all have them since the 1990's)...And contact ATF for a "certificate of origin" which would tell them who imported it....Then contact that importer and figure out which wholesaler got it...Then go to the wholesaler and see which dealer sold it to an individual....Then go to the dealer and THEN have him pull the 4473 which would show who purchased that weapon....Then pay that person a visit and ask him/her where the weapon currently was... There is NO central federal database...

EE_ | 04-16-2009 10:51 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by gbgunner (Post 1680215) I do. It's common sense ! :sarc:
Of course you do! How can anyone say they don't want to be safe? Did you stop beating your wife? (Yes or no answer only) :wink:

SLV>GLD | 04-16-2009 10:57 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by Agfinger (Post 1680273) There is NO central federal database...
You seem so certain... I know it takes about 10 minutes for a NICS check to come back. Someone is sitting at a computer running that check. they are taking the time to check me personally for every purchase. What makes you so certain they do not take an additional 5 seconds to record the serial number that has just been transmitted to them? As I said, I refuse to believe otherwise. I don't care if what you say is true or not. I would be an idiot to faithfully assume you are correct that they do not take 5 seconds to record the serial number. It is very much in my best interest to assume they do because I have no mechanism to prove they do not. How is it you are so certain?

oldmansmith | 04-16-2009 11:12 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Where is the "What Guns?" option in the poll?

Chris_Is_Here | 04-16-2009 11:12 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Guys, honestly in terms of identifying who has what, it doesn't matter much...I picked up a .357 MAG this week and the paperwork required was unbelievable, took over a half hour to get it all filled out, and much of the information requested was already provided when I got my CCW...WE ALREADY HAVE GUN REGISTRATION, ONLY THEY DON'T CALL IT THAT...with the information filled out on you now, any law enforcement person can trace what you have and where and when you got it.... THE PURPOSE OF PASSING GUN REGISTRATION LAWS IS NOT TO REGISTER GUNS....it is to drive the few remaining gun stores out of the business, since it is already very costly in time and effort for them to comply with current laws.....for this reason alone, we need to fight these bastards.....THEY ARE NOT DUMB, THEY KNOW IF THEY TRY TO BAN GUNS OUTRIGHT, IT WIL LEAD TO A FIGHT....this is the next best way to do it. EDIT...think about it...does Uncle Hussein really care about uncle Elmer's 4-10 squirrel gun? No way.

Agfinger | 04-16-2009 11:19 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1680295) You seem so certain... I know it takes about 10 minutes for a NICS check to come back. Someone is sitting at a computer running that check. they are taking the time to check me personally for every purchase. What makes you so certain they do not take an additional 5 seconds to record the serial number that has just been transmitted to them? As I said, I refuse to believe otherwise. I don't care if what you say is true or not. I would be an idiot to faithfully assume you are correct that they do not take 5 seconds to record the serial number. It is very much in my best interest to assume they do because I have no mechanism to prove they do not. How is it you are so certain?
If they do, they are violating their own federal law... My point is, not even the new weapons sold, but what about the tens of millions of 4473's that are sitting in that warehouse in paper form? Many of those are pre-NICS and are just crated up by the pallet load. If your 7.62x25 pistol was sold by a dealer that later went out of business, the ONLY way to get that info is to go to the BATFE and hope that they help you search for a certificate of origin and backtrack it that way. Could they be keeping a quasi database on the sly? It's possible I guess, but it would not include millions of private transactions every year and tens of millions of previous transactions from dealers that are no longer in business...It's way too fluid and they understand it. The way to implement a nationwide registration is by passing draconian legislation that mandates such. This country is nowhere near there yet. The 4473 forms are a way to start looking for info, but that's all they are for ATF....A start. The problem with your scenario is just like the problem with ALL scenarios like this.... No proof.... To keep these databases would require hundreds of MIS technicians, database maintenance people, software engineers, clerks, administrators, timekeepers for the staff, payroll records, etc yada-yada..Yet none of these people has ever whispered that this is going on and provided proof of such. Until then, it's a conspiracy theory to me, because I gotta have some proof before I repeat it. No one has ever blown the whistle that the Feds have been caught doing this. I think some states tried it, but not the Feds. Once again, remember the problem with a conspiracy like this that no one ever considers...The MASSIVE amount of people that would be required to run this nationwide hidden registration scheme.... Reagan couldn't sell a few missiles to Iran in trade for six hostages and that only involved a handful of people and yet IT couldn't be kept quiet..

G-khan | 04-16-2009 11:22 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1680149) Thankyou for providing this valuable survey to TPTB... They appreciate it.
As if they already do not know this?

AOW | 04-16-2009 11:27 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? I picked up a Nagant last weekend and after clearing the NCIS check, the guy behind the counter said I was all set. He then hands me the receipt and points out the seriel number of the rifle that was printed there. He told me that if the rifle is lost or stolen, all I had to do was call the police with that number and I'd be off the hook if a crime was committed with it. Seems somebody is keeping tabs.

JJ_ | 04-16-2009 11:30 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by G-khan (Post 1680350) As if they already do not know this?
They know what our plans and reactions will be? I kinda doubt it.

Iptuous | 04-16-2009 11:36 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1680364) They know what our plans and reactions will be? I kinda doubt it.
Oh, I'm pretty sure they do.... why would you think they don't keep a finger on the pulse of the disenchanted? They have to make their contingency plans based on something, and we just got labeled as -extremists-, so i'm guessing they know we're unlikely to give em up...

Agfinger | 04-16-2009 11:36 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by AOW (Post 1680358) I picked up a Nagant last weekend and after clearing the NCIS check, the guy behind the counter said I was all set. He then hands me the receipt and points out the seriel number of the rifle that was printed there. He told me that if the rifle is lost or stolen, all I had to do was call the police with that number and I'd be off the hook if a crime was committed with it. Seems somebody is keeping tabs.
No, that's not what that means... What he meant was that by showing that you purchased the weapon legally,(with receipt), and were reporting it stolen, (as you should), it would show that you no longer had possession of the weapon should a crime be committed with it. In other words, by showing your receipt and alerting them, you would have went through proper channels with documentation to show that any potential crimes committed with that rifle later could not be attributed to you. That's all that meant..

hypervel | 04-16-2009 11:43 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Guns are bad they kill people.......my standard answer.

JJ_ | 04-16-2009 11:53 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 1680372) Oh, I'm pretty sure they do.... why would you think they don't keep a finger on the pulse of the disenchanted? They have to make their contingency plans based on something, and we just got labeled as -extremists-, so i'm guessing they know we're unlikely to give em up...
What? So that makes it a good idea to advertise it online?? ats crazy man

Iptuous | 04-16-2009 12:18 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1680399) What? So that makes it a good idea to advertise it online?? ats crazy man
Not necessarily saying it's a good idea. just saying i think they keep tabs and they already know anyways. so it's not necessarily a bad idea. Weren't you just saying last month or so, that you're tired of hiding and keeping quiet, anyways? :wink: mebbee it is a good idea to be forthright about how much opposition there would be if they tried to disarm us. (or set the stage for it...) i dunno.

JJ_ | 04-16-2009 01:07 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 1680435) Not necessarily saying it's a good idea. just saying i think they keep tabs and they already know anyways. so it's not necessarily a bad idea. Weren't you just saying last month or so, that you're tired of hiding and keeping quiet, anyways? :wink: mebbee it is a good idea to be forthright about how much opposition there would be if they tried to disarm us. (or set the stage for it...) i dunno.
an analogy This is similar to the difference between Diplomacy and an Op Plan. The former is Public. The latter is not.

CQC McDuck | 04-16-2009 06:43 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? I won't submit to registration. That said, I won't make it easy to find what have either.

UncaScrooge | 04-16-2009 09:02 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Guns? What guns??? :111: Oh... you mean that single shot .22 I have? Sure! If they want it, they can have it. (But I think I might have lost it, can't find it lately). Too bad that's all I have (IF I still have it and haven't lost it): reading these posts makes me wish I had some of those cool guns posters here talk about.... Oh well. :confused_ma: At any rate, I'm sure Obama and the local police dept. will protect me from any harm, whether home invasion, or street crime.... right? I mean,... right??? ....RIGH???? :sarc:

Silver001 | 04-16-2009 11:26 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Amazon Amazon Go to the home depot and buy pipe and make you own--- Here is a book on how to put the part together, Yeah right.

Quixote2 | 04-17-2009 12:47 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? I lost all the guns accumulated by my father and me over the period of 60 to 30 years ago..... Had to replace them with the NCIS procedure....... The replacement guns will be registered..... I am law abiding.....

morganchaser | 04-17-2009 02:53 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by Agfinger (Post 1680273) Incorrect....I don't know what Orwellian state you live in, but this is not the way it's done...CA, NY NJ or IL or some like shithole like that may have some state regulation about new purchases being mined from 4473's from such-and-such date forward, but not all firearms from any particular caliber whenever GCA 68 was passed and the 4473 forms were implemented .....Not in most free states. There is NO central database of sales by the Feds at all....Once again, the BATFE has a warehouse the size of a football field full of 4473's from dealers that died, went out of business, whatever....NONE of these are keyed into any database mainly because it would take 200 years and 3000 clerks to do it. By that time, there would be another half a football field from more defunct dealers that were ready to key in... You cannot imagine the impossibilities and the amount of 4473 forms from DEFUNCT dealers....That's not to mention still operating dealers and their files, none of which are databased by the Feds.. Using your example, if I bought a CZ52 or Chi-com Tokarev in 7.62x25 and that weapon was used in a murder, then the police would have to take a stab in the dark and visit every gun dealer in the city and pore through their records individually to see if any sold a weapon in that caliber.. The easier way would be to get the importers mark off the weapon, (all have them since the 1990's)...And contact ATF for a "certificate of origin" which would tell them who imported it....Then contact that importer and figure out which wholesaler got it...Then go to the wholesaler and see which dealer sold it to an individual....Then go to the dealer and THEN have him pull the 4473 which would show who purchased that weapon....Then pay that person a visit and ask him/her where the weapon currently was... There is NO central federal database...
It's the NCIS check which I'm convinced is the source of the database. The server is undoubtedly keeping logs of all query's. All they would have to do is "accidentally" design the server software poorly so that it piles up the caches (or log files more likely) and never deletes them. I haven't worked with databases, so I don't know how fast you could search an improvised database like this, but they could EASILY play dumb about it. I don't know the relevant law on firearms databases, but the whole "trace the firearm to the FFL, and pull the 4473, time line" doesn't seem realistic. I don't buy that this process hasn't been streamlined by bending some rules in order to get around "red tape."

Agfinger | 04-17-2009 08:30 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by morganchaser (Post 1681641) I don't know the relevant law on firearms databases,
That statement is very telling... Quote:
but the whole "trace the firearm to the FFL, and pull the 4473, time line" doesn't seem realistic. I don't buy that this process hasn't been streamlined by bending some rules in order to get around "red tape."
Well, you may not "buy" that, but that's the way it's done... From guncite.com: Quote:
These forms and records are used by law enforcement agencies to trace firearms associated with crime. To initiate a firearm trace, the police must note the serial number of the gun, then forward a firearm trace request (Form 3312.1) with other pertinent information to the ATF. The ATF then contacts the manufacturer who identifies the wholesaler that bought the firearm. The wholesaler then refers the ATF to the retail dealer who, using the bound-book, identifies the original retail purchaser. The ATF considers a trace successful if the original purchaser is identified. Normally at this point, the ATF turns the case over to local law enforcement, however in rare cases the ATF attempts to follow the chain of possession. To trace a gun beyond the first retail purchaser, law enforcement authorities must conduct interviews and use informants, and of course these methods are often unsuccessful. It averages 11.4 days to trace a firearm to the first retail purchaser. The ATF has developed a computer system that reduces trace time to an average of five days. Participation is voluntary, and it is anticipated the number of licensees participating will increase. (ATF, Commerce in Firearms in the United States, February 2000, p. 20) The same ATF publication (p. 25) says, "Approximately 200,000 trace requests were received in 1999...A firearms trace currently identifies the first retail dealer for approximately 60 percent of trace requests and the first retail purchaser for approximately 40 percent of trace requests." (The report lists the reasons why many traces fail.) However, ATF trace requests are not necessarily representative of crime guns or gun traces: "One reason that few [violent crime] guns are traced is that information about the chain of custody from manufacturer to retail sale is often not necessary for prosecution of state and local gun crimes. After all, a District Attorney bringing an armed robbery case needs to prove that the defendant used a gun, not that the defendant used a gun with a particular pedigree. In some cases, local police may find it faster to conduct a trace themselves than to ask BATF to perform the trace. "Further, some jurisdictions-such as New York, Maryland, California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts-keep detailed records of all legal ownership of handguns, or of all guns. These jurisdictions would logically use their own records first for gun tracing, and would turn to BATF only when their own data failed." (Kopel, David B. Tracing Misinformation: How Anti-gun Activists Misuse BATF Data, 1998)
Note the red underlined portion...Just like I said before, the Feds DO NOT have a registry database that allows for computerized access of all firearms. It simply does not exist.. However certain liberal anti-gun states, (again, read my previous post), are conducting these databases on their own.

Saul Mine | 04-18-2009 05:05 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by gbgunner (Post 1679577) It's just registration, not confiscation. What's the big deal?
It's what they call "exposing your position to the enemy."

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Maddie | 04-18-2009 08:39 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by gbgunner (Post 1679577) It's just registration, not confiscation. What's the big deal?
Because there is no good purpose to it (look at states that have had registration for years; it has been negligible in solving crimes), and it opens the door to a lot of negative things, such as registration fees, taxes on ownership and transfer, increased regulation of firearms, increased restrictions on firearms, legal provisions for law enforcement to come onto your property to make sure your weapons are registered (I've seen that written into a state bill that didn't pass), a security risk (freedom of information laws allowed several newspapers to publish lists of people with carry permits...will registration lists be public, too? If they say no, will they change their minds in a year or two?), and even the possibility of confiscation. Outright confiscation is unlikely, but hey, look what they did in New Orleans. It's none of the government's or the public's business what kind of firearms I have unless I commit a crime with them.

UncaScrooge | 04-19-2009 02:51 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Look... I think being a law-abiding citizen is MOST important... regardless of what laws are passed. you gotta "toe the line." If I have to turn in my CO2-powered BB pistol too make the TPTB happy... NO PROB-LEM-O!!! Let's all get behind this WONDERFUL opportunity for CHANGE, ...and HOPE we live to see next Christmas free of poverty or oppression... Yea, RIGHT! :111:

UncaScrooge | 04-19-2009 02:52 AM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Mine (Post 1683936) It's what they call "exposing your position to the enemy."
...yup!... MAJOR point!

Tallships | 04-19-2009 12:54 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? you forgot the number 1 choice: (ask in Russian accent) What is this guns that you speak of?????

Silverstone | 04-19-2009 03:33 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? The gov't. already knows which guns you have purchased, at least if you live in our state. So, basically, they have the list already. I foresee a lot of people having their guns stolen in the future. Or, they will sell them off before they allow confiscation. As far as registration, we've already registered via purchase and FOID card at time of purchase. I have no idea what my husband owned prior to FOID cards and all that purchasing tracking stuff and I'm not asking for a list.

Tallships | 04-19-2009 03:36 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? The lucky ones got theirs decades ago.

morganchaser | 04-21-2009 08:10 PM
Re: Would you register your guns? Quote:
It is legal to own a handgun if you are younger than 21(but "over 18"). The prohibition is against purchase, not possession.(FFL holders may not sell handguns or handgun ammo to persons under 21) As for "registration" understand that when a firearm is purchased FROM A FEDERALLY LICENSED DEALER, there is a de facto registration thanks to the "background check."
http://oregonfirearms.org/faq/ I raise you a referenced source.

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