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- - CCW thoughts. (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=348020)

Stealinator | 02-10-2009 09:27 PM
CCW thoughts. As title says. Pros and cons. I live in an open carry state, VA, but is not like the old days. Never even see a riffle or shotgun in rear truck windows anymore, let alone sitting on your passagner seat. I know, If have one and pulled over for what ever reason, you are required by law to present it(ccw license). Although may not be a big deal at present time, once you have it weather you renue it or not, your in the system, so in the future might it not be worth it? Reason asking, what would the consequences be if one was found in your vehicle (not visible, due to public sheep freaking out and am sure LEO would pull over if they saw it to begin with) I guess would be a concealed firearms charge? So........any gimmers with a ccw, why? and those totally against it, why?

renegade_01 | 02-10-2009 11:04 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. I'd like to know the same. I'm on the fence on getting mine. I've been toting mine for about a yr now...no problems. I share the same personal opinions others do and that is "I don't need to ask permission from big brother to protect my life". It is one thing that urks me. I don't need to be granted a right already expressly granted by the constitution and the rules of nature. When you grow up in a rough area like I did, you learn sink or swim.... I prefer to swim.

reformed wastrel | 02-10-2009 11:25 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. I recently took the class for my concealed license. I understand completely the point of view of those who say that the right of self-defense shouldn't need a license. And in terms of political theory, I whole-heartedly agree with those folks. But I got to thinking, what exactly am I giving the government in order to get that license? Well, I gave up a day to take the class... but I wasn't going to be doing anything important that day anyway. I gave up some money, and not a small chuck either... but I've wasted way more money on far stupider things (in my pre-reform wastrely days). I had to give them my fingerprints... but in my case, since I worked a bit for the government when I was young (in my pre-awakened days, alas), they already had my fingerprints. Any other data about me that I had to put down on the forms was info they already had anyway. So, in my particular case it didn't seem like I was losing all that much. What did I gain? Well, I'll be able to carry without breaking the law. Which means I'm much more likely to actually carry, which just might save my life some day. In my state, having the license means I don't have to go through the NICS check when I buy a gun, so the feds won't know about all the guns I have. That might come in handy if things get so bad that confiscation happens (hopefully it never will, of course). As you can tell, the pro side is all tenuous, full of "maybes" and "mights". But there didn't seem to be much con side in it, for my particular situation, at least. So I figured that it was probably more good than bad in it.

Agamemnon | 02-10-2009 11:38 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by reformed wastrel I understand completely the point of view of those who say that the right of self-defense shouldn't need a license. And in terms of political theory, I whole-heartedly agree with those folks.
How about those who say that the right to KEEP and BARE arms shouldn't need a license ? What part of "... the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." is theory ? Lets ask the men who constructed those words - George Washington: "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence." Thomas Jefferson: "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. ... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Patrick Henry:"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined...The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun. Samuel Adams:"The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." George Mason:"To disarm the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them." Thomas Jefferson: "The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." Alexander Hamilton: "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." Tench Coxe: "Whereas civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize ... the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." Thomas Jefferson: "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." Thomas Jefferson:"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Richard Henry Lee: "To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." Thomas Jefferson: "None but an armed nation can dispense with a standing army. To keep ours armed and disciplined is therefore at all times important." Alexander Hamilton: "If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all forms of positive government." George Mason: "Who are the militia? They consist of the whole people, except a few public officers." Thomas Jefferson: "I hope, therefore, a bill of rights will be formed to guard the people against the federal government as they are already guarded against their State governments, in most instances." When you APPLY for permission to CONCEAL arms you admit your shame to BARE arms. - Ag .

elroy | 02-10-2009 11:45 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. If you get caught pack'n w/o a CCW you'll be in trouble. The amount of trouble varies from state to state. In some states this is a felony. Most places once you're caught pack'n w/o a CCW you cannot get a CCW in the future. Second offense in some states would be treated as a felon in possesion of a firearm. You don't want to go there. If you can get a CCW where you live, do it.

Agamemnon | 02-10-2009 11:53 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. In my state you need not apply for permission to bare your firearms, they do not issue permits for open carry. They can't. If it is your intention to conceal your firearms you must apply for permission. I think this is rightfully so. Never trust a man who feels a need to conceal his firearms. .

Abouthadit | 02-10-2009 11:59 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon (Post 1562531) In my state you need not apply for permission to bare your firearms, .
Bear as in carry. B E A R

goldgun | 02-11-2009 12:05 AM
Re: CCW thoughts. If you get your CCW you are sending a message to your law makers that their are people who care about their rights and they better think twice about banning them. If you are scared of your own beliefs and what people may think about them and don't have confidence to stand your ground you are in for a sad life.

mick silver | 02-11-2009 12:22 AM
Re: CCW thoughts. i live in a open carry state also , i also have my ccw , i carry open all the time ,

End of Hope | 02-11-2009 03:37 AM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy (Post 1562508) If you get caught pack'n w/o a CCW you'll be in trouble. The amount of trouble varies from state to state. In some states this is a felony. Most places once you're caught pack'n w/o a CCW you cannot get a CCW in the future. Second offense in some states would be treated as a felon in possesion of a firearm. You don't want to go there. If you can get a CCW where you live, do it.
Most states, even California, allow open carry.

madcow | 02-11-2009 04:40 AM
Re: CCW thoughts. I applied for a concealed carry last week. The worst part was the 1 hour wait to be fingerprinted (scanner actually, no ink) as there were so many people doing the same thing. I killed time by people watching and was somewhat amazed at the different characters getting a license - everything from frail old men to one really obese kid with thick glasses who looked like he was 18. Not sure what I expected the average applicant to look like, but it certainly has made me rethink who may be packing next time possible trouble crosses my path. It was odd watching law abiding US citizens having their fingerprints and details processed by a uniformed police type and that didn't sit too well with me. All I could think of was, 'why are these obviously non criminal folks who obey the letter of the law having to go through all this, and why is the state taking their money too?' Of course the state issued paper license artificially expires and you get to keep paying a renewal fee. A year ago it never crossed my mind to own a weapon let alone carrying one loaded with 20 hollow points, however I sense attitudes changing and people becoming more aggressive toward one another. I commute a fair distance and observe road rage on an increasing basis, some of it fairly intense. My little grocery store in town was recently robbed at gunpoint at a time I usually shop there. The perp also put a gun directly to a customer's head and robbed him too. Ideally I wouldn't carry, but damn if I will let some meth-head try and harm me or mine. Now I have an excuse to buy another handgun as I need something much lighter than the 2.2lb SA XD9 I just bought. I'm thinking Ruger LCP or similar.

C4talyst | 02-11-2009 05:58 AM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealinator (Post 1562157) I know, If have one and pulled over for what ever reason, you are required by law to present it(ccw license).
I'm not sure I understood the question. I'm a VA resident and have had a CCW for 6 years. You do not have to inform Law Enforcement of your CCW status in VA. I have gotten out of at least two tickets as a result of having a CCW...strangely. I'm not afraid of "being in the system" nor am I afraid of FEMA camps, Dick Cheney Gas Ovens or White Gunderson Boxcars.

S_Goldberg | 02-11-2009 08:11 AM
Re: CCW thoughts. Virginia is Right to Carry. You are not asking for permission when you apply (hence the RIGHT to carry, you can not be denied unless you are a felon or crazy), you are simply paying a fee to obtain a license. All of you who say they are coming to get you if you have a permit are deluded. Obtaining the permit shows that people care about the right to own and carry firearms. To the OP: What do you have to lose by getting the license? a few dollars and nothing else. In not from VA, but in most states you do not register your gun when you get a CCW permit. In fact you don't need a gun to get one. What do you have to lose if you don't? Potentially your life in a violent confrontation or your right to bear arms if you CCW with the license.

Team Paratrip | 02-11-2009 04:56 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. When I applied for Virginia CCW, you do not NEED to register your gun. I was not fingerprinted either. I do OC most of the time, but I may be in an instance where I wear clothes (e.g. large coat) that don't allow me to do so.

Stealinator | 02-11-2009 05:09 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by C4talyst (Post 1562804) I'm not sure I understood the question. I'm a VA resident and have had a CCW for 6 years. You do not have to inform Law Enforcement of your CCW status in VA. I have gotten out of at least two tickets as a result of having a CCW...strangely. I'm not afraid of "being in the system" nor am I afraid of FEMA camps, Dick Cheney Gas Ovens or White Gunderson Boxcars.
This was my understanding from a friend who has one and was pulled over for tail light out. Officer came back and informed him he was suppose to let him know about the ccw. ( he got out of the ticket too, strange)

goldgun | 02-11-2009 05:17 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealinator (Post 1564068) This was my understanding from a friend who has one and was pulled over for tail light out. Officer came back and informed him he was suppose to let him know about the ccw. ( he got out of the ticket too, strange)
It depends on your state rules. Some states require you to tell the police when you are pulled over and some don't.

Team Paratrip | 02-11-2009 05:19 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealinator (Post 1564068) [...]Officer came back and informed him he was suppose to let him know about the ccw. ( he got out of the ticket too, strange)
I hate to echo, as ... well so have I. I do inform the officer of CCW status, but considering statistically that most CCW holders are "law-abiding" (See: http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html ) ... 1,445,522 people applied, 3,794 revoked after licensed .... approximately 0.2% of applicants.

Bill843 | 02-11-2009 10:47 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon (Post 1562531) ...Never trust a man who feels a need to conceal his firearms.
The problem with this idea is that allowing concealed carry has the greatest deterrent effect on crime, because criminals won't know who is armed and who isn't ("an armed society is a polite society"). Allowing open carry will shift crime demographics but won't reduce them because criminals would never willingly choose an armed victim. Also,,, if you are alone in a crowded situation with strangers, a open-carry gun is a tremendous theft risk. Someone behind you can easily grab it away from you before you can respond. Open-carry works great when you're stringing two-wire on the ranch, but would be silly on a NYC subway during rush hour. -end-

End of Hope | 02-11-2009 11:11 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1564796) The problem with this idea is that allowing concealed carry has the greatest deterrent effect on crime, because criminals won't know who is armed and who isn't ("an armed society is a polite society"). Allowing open carry will shift crime demographics but won't reduce them because criminals would never willingly choose an armed victim. Also,,, if you are alone in a crowded situation with strangers, a open-carry gun is a tremendous theft risk. Someone behind you can easily grab it away from you before you can respond. Open-carry works great when you're stringing two-wire on the ranch, but would be silly on a NYC subway during rush hour. -end-
So, you'd say cops, such as transit police, should be disarmed then? http://www.google.com/products?q=ret...ster&scoring=p

S_Goldberg | 02-12-2009 09:01 AM
Re: CCW thoughts. Whether you and I agree with the permitting process is immaterial. The fact is it exists. Just like you need to obtain a permit to organize a protest (1st amendment right). Since the process exists and requires next to nothing from you leaves me wondering why you are so bent on telling the OP not to do it. If you choose not to obtain a permit or live in VT or AK where a permit is not required, then that is great. Let others make their own choices and leave the Utopian ideas for philosophical debate.

Twisted Avatar | 02-12-2009 09:39 AM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1564796) The problem with this idea is that allowing concealed carry has the greatest deterrent effect on crime, because criminals won't know who is armed and who isn't ("an armed society is a polite society"). Allowing open carry will shift crime demographics but won't reduce them because criminals would never willingly choose an armed victim.
If you dont know...you are less inclined to try. T

igorthesmall | 02-12-2009 10:10 AM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by End of Hope (Post 1562661) You gave the government your name, address and type of sidearms you own, and the CCW lists will be the first to be looked at once Commissar Eric Holder decides taking away your firearms without due process or just compensation is "necessary for the children." Don't bet for a second that the pigs - in even the most conservative states - will follow such unconstitutional orders precisely. It is pure fantasy that pigs in such states as Texas or Wyoming won't follow orders - they are cowards, every one of them, and know exactly where their paychecks come from as the reward for prostituting themselves against the Constitution, common law, and common sense. * * no, I don't like cops, and NO, it's not because I'm a "criminal." I'm a moral man, who follows God's Law, which means I treat my neighbor as myself. However, I do not like tyrants or tyranny, and like less those who prostitute themselves to enforce tyranny. That badge means nothing to me other than the letters "KGB."
Here are some other guys who werent afraid to end up on a government list http://justmytruth.files.wordpress.c...ce-signers.jpg

S_Goldberg | 02-12-2009 10:41 AM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by igorthesmall (Post 1565566) Here are some other guys who weren't afraid to end up on a government list http://justmytruth.files.wordpress.c...ce-signers.jpg
+1000000 You should not be ashamed of your beliefs. People say not to get a CCW because they don't want to end up on a list. Then they accuse those who do obtain the permit of being scared of the government. The hypocrisy is hilarious. If you aren't scared then stand up and speak out, don't sit at your keyboard and b!tch. You think the founders got it right and the people and gov have forgotten that? Start telling people the truth and writing letters to the editor of your local papers, start organizing protests, etc. Bottom line: Stop using your fear of the government as a crutch to justify your laziness.

Goldfinger | 02-12-2009 11:55 AM
Re: CCW thoughts. Hey, I'm proud to say I'm on the list :15_1_70v:

Bill843 | 02-12-2009 04:42 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by End of Hope (Post 1564847) So, you'd say cops, such as transit police, should be disarmed then? http://www.google.com/products?q=ret...ster&scoring=p
Police normally do not mix with the general public, did you ever notice? They keep a couple or three feet between them and civilians--and gun-grabs are the reason. Police also usually work in pairs. I don't know anything about other big-city transit police. Where I live the transit police work usually alone on the trains, but they don't carry guns at all. They have a regular radio, but if you don't follow their instructions they also have a hidden "panic button"-type radio they can hit and there will be a half-dozen or more regular (armed) police waiting at the next station platform. I would think that if you were limited to open-carry, something that placed the gun across your chest would be easiest to protect from grabs. You would have to leave the front of your coat open in cold weather to grab it though, so everything is a compromise I guess. ----- Carrying illegally is an interesting question. I live in IL, which does not allow any firearm-carry at all. I don't feel the need to now, but have wondered when I might change my mind. I live on the "good" side of town, not a lot happens to make me wonder. And hopefully I will move out-of-state before it becomes an issue. -end-

Keyboard | 02-12-2009 10:20 PM
Re: CCW thoughts. Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealinator (Post 1564068) This was my understanding from a friend who has one and was pulled over for tail light out. Officer came back and informed him he was suppose to let him know about the ccw. ( he got out of the ticket too, strange)
Concealed weapon license number is the exact same as your drivers license number. Both come up on the LEO's computer when he runs your ID. He already knows you have the license. He wants you to tell him what and where your concealed weapon is. Google has videos showing goofy cops disarming and handcuffing lawful CCW citizens during traffic stops "for your own protection". :confused_ma:

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