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- - Gun Frame (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=435458)

jhwatts | 12-28-2009 01:53 PM
Gun Frame I do machine work and metal fabrication out of my home. I have had a guy approach me and ask me if I can make a frame for a pistol. I can do the the machine work but I have never done work on firearms. I asked him what he wants me to make it from and he tells me a billet. This tells me nothing basically. I thought he would come back with a specific material such as a specific grade of tools steel and ask me to heat treat to a specific hardness. I have a few questions. What are most gun frames made from? Do I have to have a license to make parts for firearms? Guns appear to be big business and could be big business for me. Is this something worth while for me to try to do more of?

SWRichmond | 12-28-2009 02:13 PM
Re: Gun Frame I am certain you need some kind of license or registration to either import or manufacture the licensed/regulated part of a firearm, the frame of a pistol or the receiver of a long gun.

Kregener | 12-28-2009 02:24 PM
Re: Gun Frame Do you really KNOW this guy? Sounds like a total set up to me.

____hoot____ | 12-28-2009 02:41 PM
Re: Gun Frame Sounds like a set-up if you don't know the guy. It is legal to build YOUR own firearm as long as it is not a "destructive device". There are such things as 80% kits that are legal to sell, where the frame is finished 80% and the buyer finishes the "project". BATF determines what a destructive device is and how much is 80%. Here is the website of a guy that has done that and is CNCing the 80% finished receivers and selling the kits. He has paid dearly over the years with hassels to be able to do this. ktordenance.com He sells kits for the 1911 pistol and AR10 and AR15 rifles currently

eat_beef | 12-28-2009 02:42 PM
Re: Gun Frame SW is dead on, the serialized portion of a firearm (frames in 99% of handguns) is regulated, and you must have the proper license from the BATFE to manufacture them for sale. You can make one for personal use so long as it never leaves your hands (this is an oversimplification so please don't bust my balls, get a firearms lawyer if you want the whole rundown). Yes, you might make big money. But you will pay all that and more defending yourself from federal prosecution, and then spend some time in the clink to boot. Whether a sting by our benevolent overlords or just some dude trying to get some frames built on the downlow, either way I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Floyd | 12-28-2009 03:21 PM
Re: Gun Frame If in montana it may be ok. Isn't montana telling the batf to but out?

Heimdhal | 12-28-2009 03:27 PM
Re: Gun Frame Id say stay away. If it were grips, or sights, or something that is fine, but when you start getting into frames, especialy in handguns (since the frame is the 'gun' part in nearly every handgun) you are looking at some serious consequences. It is alsot totaly possible its a "sting" of them trying to round up "evil garage gun makers". "See, people can make guns in their garage, they must be stopped...for the children" If you dont know the guy well, tell him you cant do it, whether that be for legal reasons or skill/experience reasons. If you're in Montana or Tennessee, I still wouldnt do it, as even though their state Freedom of Firearms Act's are in effect, they are still battling with the ATF and it just isnt "safe" yet for the little guy.

SLV>GLD | 12-28-2009 03:42 PM
Re: Gun Frame Quote:
Originally Posted by jhwatts (Post 2097424) I thought he would come back with a specific material such as a specific grade of tools steel and ask me to heat treat to a specific hardness. I have a few questions. What are most gun frames made from?
Regardless of the ramifications of actually doing it, I was curious to know the answers to the questions posed.

morganchaser | 12-28-2009 05:40 PM
Re: Gun Frame Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 2097573) Regardless of the ramifications of actually doing it, I was curious to know the answers to the questions posed.
I can totally relate. Long after realizing fire extinguishers were better suited for a job: I still insisted on figuring out how to cut open propane canisters. A challenge is reason enough. I've read that gun barrels are made of 4140("Chromoly"?) or 416 stainless in some cases. I think 4140 is supposed to be heat treated to ~RC 29 but don't quote me on that. 416 is supposedly super gay because it likes to blow up in cold weather(so I've read) Since rust resistance isn't a huge priority... If I had to chose a material: I'd chose a "S" series shock resistant tool steel, or if the frame required tight tolerances+heat treating: I'd probably go with A2 if I could get away with it.(might be too hard/brittle?) Keep in mind they make AR15 frames out of 6061 or 7075 alluminum, so depending on the strength of the action: It's not an incredibly stressful application. On a direct blowback, the frame holds the parts together(FCG) and acts as a guide for a spring/inertia dampened bolt. The Bolt/barrel are the critical components to get right, although that isn't to say you can't get yourself killed by screwing up the frame. Desirable qualities: shock resistence, abrassion resistance, high operating temperature. Hopefully someone else with more information than myself posts. Good luck. Check out the MG47 project some people have put together. PPS-41 builds are pretty interesting too. Good money in the accessory market, but don't forget to LLC.

<SLV> | 12-28-2009 06:34 PM
Re: Gun Frame Randy Weaver had his life ruined and family killed by the BATF because an undercover agent talked him into a cutting a shotgun barrel to less than 18". I've already been baited twice to admit to "illegal thoughts" or to make an illegal interstate sale of firearms. I know at least one of them had to have been an agent. Remember what mommy said - "Don't talk to strangers."

Osprey550 | 12-29-2009 06:27 PM
Re: Gun Frame SLV That crap is happening with more frequency. Several people I know on a gun board were contacted by a "new" member about a discreet purchase. Mr "New" member was immediately outed and banned from the site. There were also "joe average" people at the last gunshow here trying to skirt the regulations on private sales. The best advice I have heard lately is the reminder, "DON'T TALK TO STRANGERS"

State of Jefferson | 12-29-2009 07:25 PM
Re: Gun Frame Quote:
Originally Posted by jhwatts (Post 2097424) I do machine work and metal fabrication out of my home. I have had a guy approach me and ask me if I can make a frame for a pistol. I can do the the machine work but I have never done work on firearms. I asked him what he wants me to make it from and he tells me a billet. This tells me nothing basically. I thought he would come back with a specific material such as a specific grade of tools steel and ask me to heat treat to a specific hardness. I have a few questions. What are most gun frames made from? Do I have to have a license to make parts for firearms? Guns appear to be big business and could be big business for me. Is this something worth while for me to try to do more of?
RED ALERT - RED ALERT - RED ALERT The guy is either very ignorant, or he's maneuvering you into a "crime." I agree with those saying he's likely setting you up. Tell him you "comply with all Federal and State firearms laws," and send him on his way. BTW, I stopped by a local gun store on Saturday (Day After Christmas sales :biggrin:). The staff at the counter was a young punk, not qualified, IMO, to staff the gun desk. Two guys were buying a scope, and I was looking. The kid started yapping about how to convert one of his firearms to full-automatic. No shit, right in public, to three strangers (the two guys and me). He also said "I love guns" a couple of times. Oh, great - so do I, but you sound like a kook. I told him quite firmly, "don't ever talk about that in public, don't talk about how to do it, or even how it could be done. The Federal KGB will be on your ass in an instant if they get wind of it." I think he was genuinely ignorant, and not fishing.

Bob | 12-29-2009 07:30 PM
Re: Gun Frame One, don't do it. My knowledge is you can make something for yourself, but not someone else. Here is a link on making parts complete with some diagrams and I believe info on what's required (the particular link is for an AR15 lower, but I believe they have more info on the site): http://cncguns.com/projects/ar15lower.html Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 2097573) Regardless of the ramifications of actually doing it, I was curious to know the answers to the questions posed.

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