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- - Enough Ammo!!!!!!! (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=376550)

bravodeltawhiskey | 05-20-2009 10:48 AM
Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Hi GIM Team, I came to a shocking revalation yesterday!! I am finished purchasing ammo for the time being. I have very significant piles of all calibers I own (and a couple I don't). I realized my ammo stockpiling could go on forever, but for what reason. I currently have enough to practice with and still maintain a large enough stockpile for any foreseeable event I can dream up. I feel at this time my time and resources should be allocated to the rest of the prep process which includes items that can never be "finished" or completed. I will not allow myself to be caught up in the ammo frenzy. Yes, there is a shortage, yes it could go on forever and the prices can rise forever. However, chasing ammo at ever increasing prices should only be for folks that are caught waaayy behind the curve, with little or nothing in their preps. Regards, BDW

AOW | 05-20-2009 11:07 AM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! I too feel like I've reached a point where I can relax on my ammo buys. I don't need to search the net to find another bulk purchase or hit the store and clear off a shelf. I did go out and shoot 60 rounds of 7.62x54 this past weekend and I didn't worry at all about raiding my supply so that's a good sign that I'm content. That said, I'll still check the ammo department at the stores when I'm there and hit the gun shop if I'm ever up there again to see if they've got a box or two of Buckshot. Or .357, 30-30, 22, .308, .44 spl, or.......

Twisted Avatar | 05-20-2009 12:02 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Always grab two boxes of the popular calibers. Just force of habbit.

GoldBuyer123 | 05-20-2009 12:12 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! All anybody needs is one round. Shoot one person, the cops arrest you, throw you in jail, and melt the pistol into a new highway guard rail.

optimestic1 | 05-20-2009 02:10 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by AOW (Post 1730298) I too feel like I've reached a point where I can relax on my ammo buys. I don't need to search the net to find another bulk purchase or hit the store and clear off a shelf. I did go out and shoot 60 rounds of 7.62x54 this past weekend and I didn't worry at all about raiding my supply so that's a good sign that I'm content. That said, I'll still check the ammo department at the stores when I'm there and hit the gun shop if I'm ever up there again to see if they've got a box or two of Buckshot. Or .357, 30-30, 22, .308, .44 spl, or.......
This is refreshing to hear! I was hoping people would start coming to this realization so that other people (like me) can actually buy something when needed, instead of having to stare at an empty shelf at the store and be told, "We have no idea when we'll be getting more in. You'll just have to check back periodically".

silverJeep | 05-20-2009 02:21 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! As I've said before: http://goldismoney.info/forums/showt...52#post1700252 I'm with you on "enough". :ok:

TTAZZMAN | 05-20-2009 02:43 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! my 4" concrete floor is starting to crack............

Freedom1 | 05-20-2009 03:23 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1730704) my 4" concrete floor is starting to crack............
good job:10_1_20:

bfnelson | 05-20-2009 06:07 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldBuyer123 (Post 1730424) All anybody needs is one round. Shoot one person, the cops arrest you, throw you in jail, and melt the pistol into a new highway guard rail.
Sure, the whole "thinking things through to their logical conclusion" bit. When you think about it you are unlikely to be able to kill more than one person without being thrown in jail. What are the odds of killing 5 people justified or not and remaining a free man? Being arrested and investigated that many times would probably do a guy in. Kind of like the guy in another thread who wondered if being limited to 1300 rounds of .454 cassul was a potential liability. I would say having 1300 round of loaded .454 is more of a problem than not having it.

Fullpower | 05-20-2009 06:11 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by bravodeltawhiskey (Post 1730260) I currently have enough BDW
. ...................... You are Mistaken....................................

Dirty Harry | 05-20-2009 06:22 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! WOW!... That "Man arrested for having too many bullets" thread is starting to take it's toll! :Surrender::Surrender::Surrender:

CrufflerJJ | 05-20-2009 06:32 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by bravodeltawhiskey (Post 1730260) I currently have enough to practice with and still maintain a large enough stockpile for any foreseeable event I can dream up.
HERETIC! Burn the witch! "Enough", you say? Congratulations!

leadfoot | 05-20-2009 08:20 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! It may be possible to have too much but one can definately never have enough.

Twisted Avatar | 05-20-2009 08:24 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1730704) my 4" concrete floor is starting to crack............
.........................

Usury | 05-20-2009 09:52 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot (Post 1731280) It may be possible to have too much but one can definately never have enough.
Ditto that.....or rather vice versa: it may be possible to have enough but you can never have too much. My grandfather was a construction foreman and builder during the NEW (RAW) DEAL. He was once charged with reconstructing a wall on a jobsite by the super on a TVA dam project. This wall had been constructed by other foremen and subsequently failed structurally. During HIS reconstruction he loaded that baby UP with steel rebar. Someone asked him rather amazedly at the amount of rebar, "Don't you think you have too much in there?". His reply was....."We'll never know...."

mtnman | 05-20-2009 11:06 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! I look at ammo as another PM. Copper, Lead and Brass will never be worth zero.

leadfoot | 05-21-2009 03:22 AM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by Usury (Post 1731411) Ditto that.....or rather vice versa: it may be possible to have enough but you can never have too much.
I deliberately switched the saying around. When there is no place left to stack it, when it is threatening a marriage or finances then it may be too much. But whatever the case, it will still not be enough. Ammo Anonymous anyone? Take AIM - Ammo Is Money.

smullen | 05-21-2009 12:24 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Its a good place to be... I'm not there... Not really sure where there is, but I'm not close... 400x2x12x20 = 192000 Rounds of .xxx 200x2x12x20 = 96000 Rounds of .xx 500x1x20 = 10000 Rounds of .xx 80x2x12x20 = 38400 of .xxx Ammo Per Trip x Trips a Month X Months in a year X 20 Years = Total of a Caliber I'd want, to not worry... Not a complete listing, but this gets me started.... Sadly, I can never get there... I know I'll need to cut it way down as far as rounds per trip and even trips per month....

MOD1 | 05-21-2009 01:56 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! I'm trying to double in replacement of whatever I expend. I shoot infrequently; it won't be much. Take care, Mod1

Onboard | 05-21-2009 03:33 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! I may very well have enough. I'm sure my wife would think so. But it's not just about me ya know? I don't have a crystal ball, so there is no way of knowing what the supply will be like so many moons from now. Stack it high and stack it deep for the younguns! I've got a young one who hasn't even started shooting yet (getting close though) and grand babies who haven't arrived on the scene yet. They're gonna need ammo to practice with if they are to become proficient with firearms and they'll need ammo to stash just in case. Hopefully there will always be plenty but I don't know that. Stack it for the kids do it for your progeny. You would leave them your pm's wouldn't you?

leadfoot | 05-21-2009 05:51 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Generational Ammo.

UncaScrooge | 05-21-2009 07:17 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!! I RARELY SHOOT! And... based on my minimal consumption, think I have enough to last me for 5-6 years... so/// why buy more!??? Of course, if the ZOMBIES show up, that may change my outlook. Don't expect any Zombies in my neck of the woods... but I've been wrong before! Tip of the day (which I strive to follow): STAY FLEXIBLE IN YOUR OUTLOOK! :ok:

Dave Thomas | 05-21-2009 08:50 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! One cartridge for every man, woman, and child, in the country in Lichtenstein aught to be enough..... For each GUN! :thumb.aspx:

gypsybiker45 | 05-21-2009 09:15 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! I personally dont have a "Siege" mentality, and I do have a lot of ammo,Im also a Military Vet, and follow alot of the rules in my survival theories. pistol rounds in the tens of thousands arent good prep in my opinion, unless your going to use them for practice, just to hoard them is ridiculous. Pistols are last ditch weapons,not primary weapons, Rifle ammo, I keep plenty for my primary,secondary and barter calibers.I see two scenarios i would need my weapons for defense. first, a fleeing scenario,(Invasion by a field army, feds gone wild, etc,overwhelming forces) where me and mine would have to bug out FAST, in that unfortunate event, I would have to destroy my stash prior to leaving, a monument to a total waste of resources. second would be a defense of my home and neighborhood, against roving gangs or militia in a collapse, thats a siege issue and large amounts make sense. my pistol would be used only in the event where my rifle was useless or down or close quarters.Im set on ammo,and have been since the mid 90s and my prep resources are going elsewhere

Ag_man | 05-21-2009 09:30 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsybiker45 (Post 1732957) I personally dont have a "Siege" mentality, and I do have a lot of ammo,Im also a Military Vet, and follow alot of the rules in my survival theories. pistol rounds in the tens of thousands arent good prep in my opinion, unless your going to use them for practice, just to hoard them is ridiculous. Pistols are last ditch weapons,not primary weapons, Rifle ammo, I keep plenty for my primary,secondary and barter calibers.I see two scenarios i would need my weapons for defense. first, a fleeing scenario,(Invasion by a field army, feds gone wild, etc,overwhelming forces) where me and mine would have to bug out FAST, in that unfortunate event, I would have to destroy my stash prior to leaving, a monument to a total waste of resources. second would be a defense of my home and neighborhood, against roving gangs or militia in a collapse, thats a siege issue and large amounts make sense. my pistol would be used only in the event where my rifle was useless or down or close quarters.Im set on ammo,and have been since the mid 90s and my prep resources are going elsewhere
+1. I don't kid myself on my ability to defend what's mine. I'm no Rambo. My ammo stash numbers in the low hundreds to several thousands, depending on caliber. The posts referring to cracking floors make me wonder a bit about the people posting them. Do they have the other angles covered; food, water, fuel, medicine, FRN's/PMs? If so, I tip my hat to them, but I've seen too many people think that once they have a huge ammo stash, the other things aren't important.

Nanook | 05-22-2009 12:27 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
If so, I tip my hat to them, but I've seen too many people think that once they have a huge ammo stash, the other things aren't important. __________________
Also, there are the 'Gunkid' types, who think that with the guns and ammo they can TAKE what they need from others. I've encountered several of those over the years. Even if they were just acting like a 'badass' I will never trust them again.

Barrettone | 05-22-2009 01:13 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 1732975) +1. I don't kid myself on my ability to defend what's mine. I'm no Rambo. My ammo stash numbers in the low hundreds to several thousands, depending on caliber. The posts referring to cracking floors make me wonder a bit about the people posting them. Do they have the other angles covered; food, water, fuel, medicine, FRN's/PMs? If so, I tip my hat to them, but I've seen too many people think that once they have a huge ammo stash, the other things aren't important.
I hear ya AG MAN. My retreat location is in a VERY rural part of Michigan's UP. I only stashed huge volumes of ammo (primarily rifle) for barter purposes. Most gun fights end with few rounds utilized. It is not necessary to have hundreds of thousands of rounds for the sole purpose of self defense. I use ammo as a diversification of my asset portfolio. I am with you that PM's, food, water, medicine, fuel, farming assets, etc., need to be given equal consideration. I do feel though, that hunting will play a partial role in rural America, and I feel that having additional ammo assets (as long as your other preps are in place) is a smart play...particularly if it is in common calibers (both military and hunting). The lions-share (95%) of my ammo is in: .22 lr (100,000) .223 (30,000) .308 (20,000) 7.62x39 (10,000) 30.06 (10,000) 30/30 (5000) 45 ACP (20,000) 40 S&W (10,000) .38 Special/Super (10,000) 9mm (20,000) 12 Gauge (5,000) Misc Calibers: 7.62x54, .270, 300 WM, 50 BMG, etc... (5,000) Now 250,000 rounds might seem like a lot, but if distributed among those various popular calibers/gauges, it is really not that much. Particularly when .22lr is 40% of it. I feel .22lr has the most trade potential in the future. I only keep a lot of pistol because I shoot competitively with it...for now. Hope this clarifies, as I am one of those who has invested quite a bit in ammo. But I want to be clear, it's primary intended purpose is for trade/barter...NOT to play Rambo.

voodoo1951 | 05-22-2009 01:54 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrettone (Post 1733893) I hear ya AG MAN. My retreat location is in a VERY rural part of Michigan's UP. I only stashed huge volumes of ammo (primarily rifle) for barter purposes. Most gun fights end with few rounds utilized. It is not necessary to have hundreds of thousands of rounds for the sole purpose of self defense. I use ammo as a diversification of my asset portfolio. I am with you that PM's, food, water, medicine, fuel, farming assets, etc., need to be given equal consideration. I do feel though, that hunting will play a partial role in rural America, and I feel that having additional ammo assets (as long as your other preps are in place) is a smart play...particularly if it is in common calibers (both military and hunting). The lions-share (95%) of my ammo is in: .22 lr (100,000) .223 (30,000) .308 (20,000) 7.62x39 (10,000) 30.06 (10,000) 30/30 (5000) 45 ACP (20,000) 40 S&W (10,000) .38 Special/Super (10,000) 9mm (20,000) 12 Gauge (5,000) Misc Calibers: 7.62x54, .270, 300 WM, 50 BMG, etc... (5,000) Now 250,000 rounds might seem like a lot, but if distributed among those various popular calibers/gauges, it is really not that much. Particularly when .22lr is 40% of it. I feel .22lr has the most trade potential in the future. I only keep a lot of pistol because I shoot competitively with it...for now. Hope this clarifies, as I am one of those who has invested quite a bit in ammo. But I want to be clear, it's primary intended purpose is for trade/barter...NOT to play Rambo.
No wonder I can't find any .22lr...you got it all. :cry1: Here's my stash, hoping for more someday... http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...51/22lrjpg.jpg

smullen | 05-22-2009 05:08 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! I don't want large qtys, because of a shoot out or that I think I'm going to need to do some tyoe of attack.... I shoot for severla reasons Self Defence Hunting Target Shooting/Sport Practice I want to make sure I have enough for the years to come so I can continue the above listed when its either banned, to costly or it can't be had for whatever reason...

Ag_man | 05-22-2009 05:52 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanook (Post 1733807) Also, there are the 'Gunkid' types, who think that with the guns and ammo they can TAKE what they need from others. I've encountered several of those over the years. Even if they were just acting like a 'badass' I will never trust them again.
I've seen my share of those, as well. Their thinking; "I don't worry about food, water and other supplies, with this amount of ammo, I can set myself up as a local warlord and take what I need". Stupidity, they're going to run into someone who is a much bigger badass than they've ever dreamed about and they will end up very dead.. Never given them a name; "Gunkid", fairly appropriate description of their POV. :coolbeer: I don't want anyone to think that I'm condemning people holding large amounts of ammo. Guys like Barrettone, who is holding it as a tangible, I support wholeheartedly. People like Nanook described, I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

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des00s | 05-22-2009 11:08 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! I imagine a lot of people's closets are getting full right about now. Guess what happens then.

Onboard | 05-24-2009 05:53 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by leadfoot (Post 1732692) Generational Ammo.
I really like the sound of that "Generational Ammo":ok: I've stories ( on here I think) of folks shooting 100 yr old ammo. If it's stored properly in it's original sealed tins or ammo boxes you too can become the eccentric, legendary and very wise family ancestor. Along with the "Generational Ammo" you will want to store away in sealed ammo boxes, operating and maintenance manuals of those cosmolined pieces of history that you so thoughtfully stored for your progeny. Don't stop now, one more thing since we're being so thoughtful. Toss in Freds Becoming a Rifleman. http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/rifle.asp?ITEM=1 C'mon ya'll, step up and do the right thing. Do it for the kids. :bear_thumb:

UncaScrooge | 05-24-2009 06:06 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Fred's Rifleman??? Yea, like I'm gonna give some guy (you, perhaps???) 16 bucks to tell me how to be a rifleman???? Sheesh! Anyone who cared woulld give out the info for free.... AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DO!!! I ain't making no stinkin' hustler rich, who's hoping to cash in on fear, insecurity or paranoia! :s10:

Onboard | 05-24-2009 06:22 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Fred's Rifleman??? Quote:
Originally Posted by UncaScrooge (Post 1736723) Yea, like I'm gonna give some guy (you, perhaps???) 16 bucks to tell me how to be a rifleman???? Sheesh! Anyone who cared woulld give out the info for free.... AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DO!!! I ain't making no stinkin' hustler rich, who's hoping to cash in on fear, insecurity or paranoia! :s10:
Nope, not me and I didn't check the price when I posted the link. Really not trying to spam or drum up business for Fred. Hustler? Fred has been advertising in the Shotgun News for a long time. Cheap stocks and slings. He didn't just pop up on the scene. Like I said he's been around for a long time, way before the Clinton so called assault weapons ban. You know, the first one? I bought his becoming a rifleman about 11 years ago and I learned a lot. My shooting improved quite a bit and I thought I was a fair shot already. It's not just info, there are targets also. So in closing I would reiterate that I have no personal gain whatsoever and if you're still angry? Then Scrooge you Unca! :15_1_70v:

UncaScrooge | 05-24-2009 07:03 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Fred's Rifleman??? MY apologies! Quote:
Originally Posted by Onboard (Post 1736739) Nope, not me and I didn't check the price when I posted the link. Really not trying to spam or drum up business for Fred. Hustler? Fred has been advertising in the Shotgun News for a long time. Cheap stocks and slings. He didn't just pop up on the scene. Like I said he's been around for a long time, way before the Clinton so called assault weapons ban. You know, the first one? I bought his becoming a rifleman about 11 years ago and I learned a lot. My shooting improved quite a bit and I thought I was a fair shot already. It's not just info, there are targets also. So in closing I would reiterate that I have no personal gain whatsoever and if you're still angry? Then Scrooge you Unca! :15_1_70v:
I apologize, Onboard... guess I was too suspicious. Good to know Fred is a credible person. But still... there IS lots of info for free. Well, won't fault a guy for trying to make a living. Hope folks who buy his "book" get their money's worth! P.S. I'm too old to get "scrooged"... LOL! Been there, done that! :553:

Shasta Gold | 05-24-2009 07:33 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanook (Post 1733807) Also, there are the 'Gunkid' types, who think that with the guns and ammo they can TAKE what they need from others.
That will represent the majority of those with firearms. Do I like it, do I condone it, absolutely not. But it will be a reality. "I want it, you have it, you can't defend it, now I have it" will be the game. My family's SHTF strategy is to simply stay out of the way of the desperate. We have resources, and the means to defend it well. Move on to easier pickings, please.

Onboard | 05-24-2009 07:39 PM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Fred's Rifleman??? MY apologies! Quote:
Originally Posted by UncaScrooge (Post 1736787) I apologize, Onboard... guess I was too suspicious. Good to know Fred is a credible person. But still... there IS lots of info for free. Well, won't fault a guy for trying to make a living. Hope folks who buy his "book" get their money's worth! P.S. I'm too old to get "scrooged"... LOL! Been there, done that! :553:
Unca, I reckon that now days a fella can't be too suspicious. There really are hustlers out there. You totally disarmed me with the balloons, good form :coolbeer: . By the way here is some free information from Freds website. http://www.fredsm14stocks.com/rifle.asp?ITEM=2 HOW TO FIRE THE SHOT 1. Line up the front and rear sights. Simply center the front sight in the rear sight (a scope does it automatically for you). (�Sight Alignment�) 2. Keeping the sights lined up, bring them onto the target. (�Sight Picture�) 3. Take a deep breath in. The front sight will dip. Let your breath out, watching the front sight rise until it barely touches the bottom of the bull�s eye - now hold your breath (�Respiratory Pause�). You have just used a natural act - breathing - to establish your correct elevation. (Don�t forget to get your NPOA!) 4A. Focus your eye on the front sight. It may be a little hard to do at first - you naturally want to look at the target - but focus on the front sight.- 4B - Focus your mind on �keeping that front sight on the target�. This is the big one! 5. Now the tricky part. While you are doing step 4, take up the slack and squeeze the trigger straight back - but keep your concentration on the front sight! Don�t let the front sight off the target. You are trying to do two tasks at once, and the more important is to Keep the front sight on the target! This is the part where practice really pays off. 6. When the hammer falls: 1) keep your eyes open, 2) take an �instant� mental photo of where the front sight was on the target when the hammer fell (�Call the Shot�), and 3) hold the trigger back (�Follow through�). In field shooting you want to quickly observe the impact of the bullet on the target and the target reaction. If the shot is a miss, try to spot any bullet splash so you can correct the next shot. Position tips: In all positions: Use the sling tightened just enough to hold the weight of the rifle. It will add to your accuracy by a factor of 20% - or more! Grasp the wrist of the stock firmly with the trigger hand, and pull the rifle back real snug in your shoulder - and keep it there. Your cheek should be pressed firmly against the stock. In Prone the elbow under the rifle should be directly under the rifle or as close as you can get it directly under the rifle. And relax and enjoy the shooting. Keep at it and the positions will actually become comfortable! Trust me. Practice until you can consistently group 1� or less at 25 meters (81 ft). Periodically do �ball & dummy� to detect and correct flinching. COMMON FIRING LINE ERRORS You go to a lot of trouble to fire a shot - buy a rifle, ammo, travel a long distance, and lay out in hot and cold weather - so you should want to have that shot impact COT [Center of Target]. Well, watch out for these common errors, and you�ll be ahead of the game: #1: Failure to keep eyes open when the rifle fires to �call� your shot. To know where the shot just went, you need to take an instant mental photo of where the front sight was when your rifle went off. If you don�t, you lose the information value of feedback from that shot - and you�re almost certainly flinching and/or jerking the trigger. So, keep that eye open - call the shot based on the position of the front sight on the target when the rifle fired, and watch for bullet splash downrange for confirmation of your call. On the firing line, in practice, you aim to continually increase the percentage of shots that you can honestly call 'good' - the front sight was on the target when the rifle fired. #2 Failure to pull rifle back into shoulder. One of the leading causes of trigger jerk, bucking, and flinching is fear of recoil, and the impact of the rifle on the shoulder. If you come away from the firing line complaining about recoil, or a �sore� shoulder, this one is what you are doing wrong - and it WILL lead to flinching. So grab the pistol grip firmly and pull the rifle back into your shoulder while you fire the shot - so you �roll� with the recoil. A side benefit: extra pressure of the trigger hand on the stock will give the perceived impression of a �lighter� trigger. #3 Failure to get NPOA. �Natural Point of Aim� has been said to be the one factor which separates the riflemen from the �wannabees�. If you don�t get your natural point of aim, your shots will be off the center of the target, even if fired perfectly, because your body is out of position, and you have to muscle the rifle onto the target. A rifleman takes position so that his rifle, with his body relaxed, is pointing at the target. He doesn�t have to fight muscle strain and he makes his job of firing the shot a lot easier - and his shots will be on target. Get your NPOA by lining up on the target with your sights, closing your eyes, relaxing your body, and taking a deep breath in and letting it out. Open your eyes and shift position pivoting around your forward elbow, to bring the sights back on the target. Repeat until when you open your eyes, your sights are naturally on the target. Once you establish your NPOA, keep it by not moving that forward elbow supporting the rifle [prone] or keeping your position steady [all other positions]. #4 Failure to pull �trigger� leg up tight behind trigger arm to absorb recoil and generally tighten position [prone position]. Try it and you�ll see your front sight settle down like it should. Grasping the forearm with the non-trigger hand and pulling slightly back into the shoulder may also help in rapid fire [what other kind is there?]. #5 Failure to maximize your feedback. Shooting is always learning, and every shot you fire should be a learning experience. If you're in a match, and screw a string of fire up so badly you are ashamed, you keep shooting just as hard as before, with those educational purposes in mind. #6 Failure to �followthrough�. By the time you think �Followthrough� as you hold the trigger back after the shot, this step in �Firing the Shot� is done. But don�t overlook it, because you need to do it. #7 Failure to keep the sight on the target. The most important step in �Firing the Shot�. Ignore this, and you might as well be shooting blanks, or setting off firecrackers. This is a 2-part step: physically focusing your eye on the front sight, and firmly focusing your mind - your concentration - on �keeping that front sight on the target�. Whatever else you do, you must do this for the shot to hit COT. #8 �Flinching�, �bucking� or �jerking the trigger�: �Flinching� is anticipating recoil by an abrupt backward motion of your shoulder to get �away� from it. �Bucking� is anticipating recoil by shoving your shoulder forward to �make up� for or �resist� the impact. �Jerking� is snapping the trigger quickly to get the disagreeable experience over with as soon as possible. All three will throw your shot off the target - in fact, are guaranteed to throw your shot off the target. All three (usually lumped under the generic �flinching�) are natural responses to your body�s abhorrence of sudden impacts. You have to work to control your body, so the rifle is not disturbed by any movement at the time the hammer falls. You do this in several ways. One is to eliminate the recoil impact by pulling the rifle snugly back into your shoulder, so that there is no impact, and you simply ride the �push� of the recoil. If you don�t pull it back tightly into your shoulder, the rifle has time to pick up speed and slam your shoulder, and you start to flinch, buck or jerk the trigger in response. So pull it back into your shoulder, and you�ll do OK. Second, keep your eyes open so you can take that instant mental photo of where the front sight was on the target at the instant of firing. If you can�t do this, you know you are guilty of flinching, bucking, or jerking. Third, concentrate on keeping the front sight on the target. Pulling the trigger is not the main task - No! Keeping the front sight on the target is the main task. So practice until that trigger finger is �educated� to take the slack up and steadily increase the pressure when the front sight is on the target, �freeze� when the front sight drifts off the target, and continue the squeeze when the sight is back on the target. You�ll have to do this in the 6-10 seconds you�re holding your breath. If you don�t fire the shot in that time, simply relax, take a deep breath and start over. [Trigger finger tips: middle of the pad of the first joint, or the first joint itself, should be where the trigger touches the finger. Keep the finger clear of the stock (�dragging wood�) as it will throw your shot off. Visualize a straight pull back, not to the side.] Once out in the 'real world', you'll find that with practice, you'll punch out 20 good shots in 30 seconds, if you ever need to shoot fast. Even the best riflemen can develop a flinch, so periodically do the �ball and dummy� drill to test for one, and then continue �ball and dummy� until you are �cured� (but remember that rarely will the cure be permanent, so you still periodically recheck). Twenty rounds should suffice for both the detection and the cure. Have a friend �load� and hand the rifle to you [make sure all safety precautions are observed!] either with or without a round in the chamber. Usually, he will start off with a live round to �juice up� any tendency to flinch, and then give you an empty one to see if there is movement in the muzzle when the hammer falls. He continues with �empties� until your muzzle doesn�t move. Then he feeds a live one followed by more �empties� - actually, he is trying to �smoke out� your flinch and get it to show itself. He continues until he is convinced that your flinch is gone. Along the way he will watch your aiming eye to make sure it stays open when the rifle goes off. #9 The biggest failure is to go to the range without a goal. Your goal should always be to improve your shooting, and come away from each session on the range a better shot. And you do that by firing the Army Precision Combat Rifle Qualification Course - which Fred�s has reduced to 25m for speed and convenience. Those in the know at Riverside who have fired the full course at 100, 200, 300 and 400 yards will tell you - �the course at 25m is harder!� And each time you fire it, you have a numerical score by which you can measure your progress towards becoming a good shooter - a RIfleman! #10 Failure to use your sling - For over 100 years, the sling has been in military use as an aid to marksmanship. Because of the tendency of the M16 barrel to flex under sling pressure, the sling has been slighted in the last few decades. But make no mistake: the sling is one of the biggest aids to accurate shooting that you have, and you always have it with you, to carry the rifle. So, never fire a shot without the sling. Use the hasty sling for standing and anytime you�re in a rush, or may need to move fast after firing a shot; and use the loop sling for prone and sitting when you have the time, but try to make sure your upper arm is padded to block muscle tremor and heartbeat, either with a shooting jacket or heavy clothing. It�s hard to estimate how big a factor in accuracy the sling is. A minimum of 20%, going up to 80% or more. It will help in rapid fire, keeping your position tight, speeding your recovery for the next shot. The bottom line is, always use your sling - in every position, for every shot. #11 Failure [sitting position] to put both elbows in front of both knees - If you�ve been to the range much, you�ve seen a new shooter trying to shoot sitting - with that trigger elbow up high in the air, almost like he�s shooting standing, totally ignoring that nice big fat knee, as steady as a bench, and less than a foot away. The shot will be much better, with that trigger elbow down on the front of the knee, where it belongs (NOT on top, where recoil will knock it off, slowing recovery time). And that other elbow, the one under the rifle? Hunker forward and drop that sucker on the target side of its knee - again to resist recoil. A good sitting position will initially break your back until you get stretched, but once everything falls into place, you can shoot nearly as good as you do off the bench! Don�t sell the position short, especially if you are on a downward slope and need to shoot over grass, etc Shoot Smart - Shoot Safe! (Copy this checklist & take to the range with you.)

voodoo1951 | 05-27-2009 10:57 AM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! Yup...I got plenty before (and during) the price increase. I did limit my pricing to less than $0.50 per round for x39 and most of it for under $0.25 per round. I like the military flavours...!!! .45 ACP/ .38 Spec. fortunatly, I got lots of WWB and Remmy from WallWorld back when they still had the stuff. As far as buying goes now, I'm sitting on the sidelines and enjoying the show. Let em' all have at it...:23_31_2::elefant::23_31_2::elefant:

AOW | 05-27-2009 11:02 AM
Re: Enough Ammo!!!!!!! I did go into Big 5 yesterday and checked out the ammo counter - it was mostly bare. A gal came over to see if I needed any help and told me they've been waiting for 6 weeks for a ammo shipment and that the ammo suppliers haven't been able to keep up with the demand and blah, blah, blah. I felt pretty good knowing I'd done my part.

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