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- - Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=363580)

wondering | 03-31-2009 02:57 PM
Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? OK, so I have to admit that I have raised my kids to be fairly non-violent. We have been ones to do all that we can to "use our words" to resolve conflicts. I have worked in the school system and that is what you are supposed to do. Based on my youngest daughter's reactions to defense purchases we have made in the past, I have done a bang up job. She freaks out with each new purchase. We have tried to get her to go out and learn to shoot a hand gun. She shot a few rounds, broke down shaking a crying. I thought that was healthy because I know now she will never play with a gun. But she gets so angry if we even talk about it around her. So we have tried to think of less "violent" methods for her that would be something that could protect her enough to try to get away or at least give time for someone else get involved and save her butt! (she is just 14) So we got Pepper spray. She was not so thrilled about that and didn't want much to do with that. It was better than the hand gun thought. So the day of the gun show, it was really windy and I had a horrible insight come to me. What if it was a windy day and we used the pepper spray? It could spray us too! Not to mention, if we were in a crowd, we could harm more people and if it is a single attacker, we do not want to hurt others. So I wanted an alternative. I am not saying we are not going to use pepper spray. I have some cool pepper spray that stains the person green too so they can not really hide unless they stay indoors for several days. I do not have to see what they look like. Their only real hope is to be fully covered and masked. So, I was really proud of my purchase of the TASER. It is TASER brand too. I excitedly told my daughter of it and you would have thought I just told her of the death of her best friend! I am not trying to whine here. I know I taught her to be a peace lover to many points. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to approach this, short of something that would have child services or the police at my door? My concern is that she is going to allow someone to harm her or even go so far as to kill her because she does not want to hurt anyone! Some of this mentality is not all my doing, it is media, schooling and politics as it goes. I will still take my responsibility. However, my son is completely different. He loves to go out an practice shooting with us. He was thrilled when we showed him the TASERs and was impressed with our reasoning behind our purchase. We wanted something that was not lethal, that was not going to unwittingly "get" us in the process of defending ourselves. I know a TASER can still be turned on me if someone was to get it from me, but the same thing can happen with any "weapon". Someone can pick up a stick and hurt me. I can legally carry a TASER where I live without a permit, although I am still considering a concealed weapons permit. Things are not getting better. Law abiding people have to be willing to protect themselves until either the attacker goes away, is no longer able to attack you or authorities can take over. Authorities (when they are respectable) can only be in so many places at one time and can only get to you so fast. It only takes seconds for an attack to happen. So, if anyone has any advice on what I might say or do to help my daughter through this to get her to understand. I am not ready to hope that she has something scare her enough to convince her and have her live through it for her to see why I am wanting her to protect herself. I thought all the changes we have been seeing in our small town should be enough. Apparently not. Advice please. And if you are going to lecture about whining, move along, I am not whining, I am asking for solid advice.

SLV>GLD | 03-31-2009 02:59 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? My opinion is that if you have to draw and fire then shoot to kill. Edit: Advice: enroll your child in some martial arts under the guise of spirituality. She'll get what she wants and you will too. A weapon is useless if you cannot or will not use it.

Rebel Yarr | 03-31-2009 03:38 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? A weapon is more dangerous if you have it but won't/can't use it. It will be used on you. Also, it will enrage anyone already peeved and threatening you/her. Better to not carry these self defense items in this case.

Fullpower | 03-31-2009 03:42 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Don't TAZE me Bro....... I am unable to conceive an appropriate context for the use of such a device.

Heimdhal | 03-31-2009 03:46 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Its VERY hard to undue years and years of conditioning, which is a big running theme here on GIM. That said, SLV>GLD has the most logical apporach. Go with a good martial arts program as he says. She be able to at least have an idea of defending herself and it may open her up to the possibility of taking that further into weapons use. Rebel is also right, in that having a gun and not using it out of fear and conditioning is dangerous. My wife always understood the value of owning and having firearms, weapons, self defence items etc, but was scared to death to shoot a gun. that was until we had our daughter. Now she wants to know all she can, and get one for herself Shes still a little scared, but I think in everyones life there arises something you'd be willing to die for, and more so be willing to kill for. Kids are usualy that very thing. Your daughter needs perspective, and unfortunatley because of the way you brought her up, its going to take a long time to get it. Not that how you raised her was wrong, its just going to take time to break that barrier you built.

wondering | 03-31-2009 03:53 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1655749) My opinion is that if you have to draw and fire then shoot to kill. Edit: Advice: enroll your child in some martial arts under the guise of spirituality. She'll get what she wants and you will too. A weapon is useless if you cannot or will not use it.
She has had some martial arts, I will have to look into what we have here locally and what kind of Senseis we have teaching. I miss our old Senei. It has been over six years. Thank you!

silverJeep | 03-31-2009 03:57 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? She could probably only taze one guy. What if there are several? As things get worse I think there will be more and more a "pack" mentality. It won't be one guy trying to get her purse, it will be several guys after her purse, car, and HER. Not to poo poo your efforts, but as stated above, she should enroll in martial arts and be led into the mentality of what's to come. Pepper spray, a tazer, a knife could work in some scenarios. A gun could work in most scenarios. My opinion, martial arts and a gun is the best. If that isn't enough... you never had a chance. SilverJeep

wondering | 03-31-2009 04:00 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Yarr (Post 1655822) A weapon is more dangerous if you have it but won't/can't use it. It will be used on you. Also, it will enrage anyone already peeved and threatening you/her. Better to not carry these self defense items in this case.
The weapons that I have, I am ready and willing to use. I will not put them into her "care" for use unless she was going to REALLY use them for fear they would be used against her. Not to mention, her age prohibits her from LEGALLY carrying them outside of our home at this time. This is why the suggestion of martial arts is a good one. We had thought on it and now I am going to really look into with the new approach. The TASER that I have is designed to "go off" for 30 seconds and therefore give you a 30 second head start to get the heck out of there. I would not fire it unless they were pursuing me. It is still considered a "last resort" defense. I still think doing what you can to walk away, staying where it is very public and being with a group of people are some of the best safety rules for protection, there are those times that you may have to defend yourself or buy a little time. In my home, I am ready for more lethal choices if needed. A closed door and a phone call to law enforcement is my first choice. I am ready to stand my ground until they get there though. Thanks~

wondering | 03-31-2009 04:22 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 1655827) Don't TAZE me Bro....... I am unable to conceive an appropriate context for the use of such a device.
Well, being as it I live in California and it is hard for many to be allowed to carry firearms in many places, TASERS are more acceptable. However, many posters are making some good points. My idea of the TASER in regards to my daughter was that it WAS NOT LETHAL, and it would not "back fire" if the wind was blowing in her direction like pepper spray could. She is still too young to carry but you get in far less trouble with a TASER than you do a firearm in this state. We have pointed out that she has a camera on her phone, she can snap a shot of the idiots and that she has texted it to her parents and she is now calling the police. She now has a positive ID on them and they should leave now. We talked of other things like ducking into an open store. She will not be out in town when stores are closed now because she is still only 14 and we did not think about that when we gave her a time to come home (6:30 and stores closed at 5:30 in our town). As for the reasoning behind the TASER is that if we did choose to use it, we would get it less trouble for firing it than say our handgun. Our neighbor came pounding on our door four times one morning simply because I called to ask him to turn off his bass that was shaking our walls. He proceeded to VIOLENTLY scream and shake his fists at us, telling us we had no right to tell him what to do. In the past we had law enforcement tell him to keep it down. We were trying to be cool about it. We were actually concerned about what he was going to do. We had our handgun loaded. Talking about it, we decided buying a TASER was better. If he had tried to push his way in our home, as his wife did once in the past, we could just deploy the TASER, shut the door, call the cops and have them deal with him. Why TASER him? He is big and I do not want to struggle with trying to close my door nor do I want to kill him. I think there are times a TASER is a better choice but not always the best choice.

wondering | 03-31-2009 04:32 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1655834) Its VERY hard to undue years and years of conditioning, which is a big running theme here on GIM. That said, SLV>GLD has the most logical apporach. Go with a good martial arts program as he says. She be able to at least have an idea of defending herself and it may open her up to the possibility of taking that further into weapons use. Rebel is also right, in that having a gun and not using it out of fear and conditioning is dangerous. My wife always understood the value of owning and having firearms, weapons, self defence items etc, but was scared to death to shoot a gun. that was until we had our daughter. Now she wants to know all she can, and get one for herself Shes still a little scared, but I think in everyones life there arises something you'd be willing to die for, and more so be willing to kill for. Kids are usualy that very thing. Your daughter needs perspective, and unfortunatley because of the way you brought her up, its going to take a long time to get it. Not that how you raised her was wrong, its just going to take time to break that barrier you built.
Thank you for not attacking, no one has so far, or I am not taking it that way anyhow. I am going to look into the martial arts. I am sure she will be silly at first but if approached with a spiritual/meditation nature, it might help. I will even look at the college, I know they had Tai Chi which if taught right, it becomes second nature for self defense but is taught as meditation. She is only 14 so her having kids is HOPEFULLY some time off. I think I have taught that one pretty deeply too and if her reaction to this situation is any gauge, I can breath easy on that subject. Plus, each time anyone at her school claims they have a pregnancy scare, she claims that adds to her virginity time line...so I am feeling a little secure on not having grandkids from her too soon. Again, I will look into the martial arts. We used to take classes about six years ago. I have to do something. I do not believe things are going to get any better. I just hope she can get over her fears because really, hand to hand can only do so much. Being well rounded, which means I should probably take classes with her, would be the best defense. Thanks~

Heimdhal | 03-31-2009 04:41 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wondering (Post 1655920) Thank you for not attacking, no one has so far, or I am not taking it that way anyhow. I am going to look into the martial arts. I am sure she will be silly at first but if approached with a spiritual/meditation nature, it might help. I will even look at the college, I know they had Tai Chi which if taught right, it becomes second nature for self defense but is taught as meditation. She is only 14 so her having kids is HOPEFULLY some time off. I think I have taught that one pretty deeply too and if her reaction to this situation is any gauge, I can breath easy on that subject. Plus, each time anyone at her school claims they have a pregnancy scare, she claims that adds to her virginity time line...so I am feeling a little secure on not having grandkids from her too soon. Again, I will look into the martial arts. We used to take classes about six years ago. I have to do something. I do not believe things are going to get any better. I just hope she can get over her fears because really, hand to hand can only do so much. Being well rounded, which means I should probably take classes with her, would be the best defense. Thanks~
at 14, its probably better she thinks the way she does. I was thinking she was closer to college age. I think its ok for a 14 year old girl to have problems with violence and killing. ;) I know I wouldnt want my daughter to be like "dad, hand the that butchers knife, this Bi*** gonna die!" Self defence can be, and often is, achieved without either party ending up dead. Incapaciation and flight is a good strategy, but its not always the best one and the key to self defence is knowing when it is and when it isnt. If shes already got some background in martial arts, continue on that path, it seems to be the best option. But crying from shooting a gun is a bit...extreme. ANd thats not neccesarily YOUR fault, many people are terrified of guns because they are publicaly portrayed that way, but it does need to be addressed before it gets worse and she turns into the next Tom Brady :P P.S. My daughter is 1 1/2, Im not looking forward to these dilemas of the teenage variety; I wish you the best of luck!!!

UncaScrooge | 03-31-2009 04:41 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wondering (Post 1655745) OK, so I have to admit that I have raised my kids to be fairly non-violent. We have been ones to do all that we can to "use our words" to resolve conflicts. I have worked in the school system and that is what you are supposed to do. Based on my youngest daughter's reactions to defense purchases we have made in the past, I have done a bang up job. She freaks out with each new purchase. We have tried to get her to go out and learn to shoot a hand gun. She shot a few rounds, broke down shaking a crying. I thought that was healthy because I know now she will never play with a gun.
If your daughter "broke down shaking and crying" after shooting a gun... YOU DID A LOUSY JOB RAISING HER!!! You've programmed her into a neurotic NUT JOB!!!!! Any psychologist who isn't politically correct... better yet, a psychiatrist, will tell you her response to firing a gun is NEUROTIC... she's on the other extreme of those who get orgasms from firing guns. You ought to help her re-adjust her psychological mindset. :36_1_30: :36_1_28:

wondering | 03-31-2009 04:43 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by silverJeep (Post 1655850) She could probably only taze one guy. What if there are several? As things get worse I think there will be more and more a "pack" mentality. It won't be one guy trying to get her purse, it will be several guys after her purse, car, and HER. Not to poo poo your efforts, but as stated above, she should enroll in martial arts and be led into the mentality of what's to come. Pepper spray, a tazer, a knife could work in some scenarios. A gun could work in most scenarios. My opinion, martial arts and a gun is the best. If that isn't enough... you never had a chance. SilverJeep
All good points. Please read some of my other responses, as they pertain to what you are saying here to. One thing that I have not mentioned about the TASER that I was concerned about when first considering purchasing it was once it was deployed, was that it? Was it only good for one time until I reload it, like a gun, only good for as long as it is loaded? Answer, NO. First, it is designed to let out a shock for 30 seconds so if it is just one attacker, I have a 30 second head start to get out of the situation. Sometimes that is all you need to get to your car. If it is two people, it can still be attached to the first idiot that attacked you and you can keep it in your hand and turn it on the other guy. You will have to be in arms lengths distance of them, nothing I like doing, but if they were to be that close, you could TASER them. More than two guys, you are screwed. The same thing would go for if you had a gun though and you are not a great shot. You may not be able to get them all. Then it goes back to your statement that you may never had a chance to begin with. Pepper spray is good for multiple attackers but you have to hope not to "get it" yourself too. I think Pepper spray would be the best in a multi-attacker situation. I like mine that I carry because it also stains them green. I do not have to see what you look like, your sorry butt will be stained green for days; easier to ID you when the cops are looking for you. Anyhow, I think my first step is getting my daughter into martial arts. I will have to see what my options are around here. Most likely the college and present it as meditation and exercise. Maybe get some of her friends to join too so it is more fun than Mom being paranoid. (wish me luck!)

Argentsum | 03-31-2009 04:49 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? What do I think? I think that if whoever you shoot a tazer at is going to sue you whether your justified or not.

wondering | 03-31-2009 04:51 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1655936) at 14, its probably better she thinks the way she does. I was thinking she was closer to college age. I think its ok for a 14 year old girl to have problems with violence and killing. ;) I know I wouldnt want my daughter to be like "dad, hand the that butchers knife, this Bi*** gonna die!" Self defence can be, and often is, achieved without either party ending up dead. Incapaciation and flight is a good strategy, but its not always the best one and the key to self defence is knowing when it is and when it isnt. If shes already got some background in martial arts, continue on that path, it seems to be the best option. But crying from shooting a gun is a bit...extreme. ANd thats not neccesarily YOUR fault, many people are terrified of guns because they are publicaly portrayed that way, but it does need to be addressed before it gets worse and she turns into the next Tom Brady :P P.S. My daughter is 1 1/2, Im not looking forward to these dilemas of the teenage variety; I wish you the best of luck!!!
Thanks! This is the thing that gets me the most. We spent hours and days out on her Papa's ranch. He hunted and he raised farm animals for the purpose of us eating them. She helped care for them and knew what it was all about. She and I both cried when "the day" came about and we just ignored the fact that we knew the meat we were eating didn't come from the store. It was the only meat that DIDN'T make me sick either. She has been raised around guns. I don't get it. Yes, I taught her to do all she could to go the peaceful route to solve all issues, they taught us that in our martial arts class! So maybe some of it is partially to do with her age. 14 is young in this day and age unless you are of a gang mindset to be ready to "rough someone up". Thanks. We will work on this a step at a time. Maybe my story will help you to CAREFULLY start young with your daughter so you do not have to deal with the drama that I FEEL like I am going through. Again, I can not say thank you enough for being kind about your suggestions.:553:

11S11ver | 03-31-2009 04:54 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Tazers are illegal here in the great state of Michigan else I would have one.

wondering | 03-31-2009 04:55 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by UncaScrooge (Post 1655938) If your daughter "broke down shaking and crying" after shooting a gun... YOU DID A LOUSY JOB RAISING HER!!! You've programmed her into a neurotic NUT JOB!!!!! Any psychologist who isn't politically correct... better yet, a psychiatrist, will tell you her response to firing a gun is NEUROTIC... she's on the other extreme of those who get orgasms from firing guns. You ought to help her re-adjust her psychological mindset. :36_1_30: :36_1_28:
Well, you are entitled to your opinion. Had you posted sooner and there had been more posters such as yourself, sooner, I may have been upset by your comment. I may have had some influence on her mindset. However, it has been pointed out and I have been reminded that she is still young. I have no issues with working with helping her come about, and that is why I was asking for suggestions, which you have not giving any...just your loud mouthed opinions. Thank you for your time, you do not seem to know how to read very well. Have a nice day.

wondering | 03-31-2009 05:03 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentsum (Post 1655952) What do I think? I think that if whoever you shoot a tazer at is going to sue you whether your justified or not.
I would rather be in court for TASERing someone thank shooting them. Here in CA it is a misdemeanor. I would also rather be alive in court than in a hospital or dead in a morgue. I can carry a TASER legally without having to get a permit. It is going to take time for me to get a permit for a handgun. Even then, it is not guaranteed that you will be approved for one. If I were to be approved for a concealed weapons permit, I would still want the TASER as an option. Like any job, it takes different tools to do different jobs in the best manner possible for the best results, considering the circumstances. Why use a gun and kill someone if killing is not what is needed? Sue me for TASERing you. They would sue me if I used martial arts on them too! I am not going to just hand over my money and lay on the ground and let them have their way with me! I am sick of this mental illness that America seems to have of wanting to willing be the victim!:36_1_28:

wondering | 03-31-2009 05:13 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by 11S11ver (Post 1655968) Tazers are illegal here in the great state of Michigan else I would have one.
I noticed that when buying the TASER. That is just stupid! I was talking to a woman at the gun show. I also bought a purse that has a compartment that is specific for carrying your defense devices. She and I agreed that if it got to the point that it was illegal to carry, we would ignore the laws. We have a Senator, Diane Feinstein (sp?) who introduces a crap load of anti-gun laws. The Bleep carries a concealed weapon herself! Too boot she has body guards! OK, double standards? There is a song that my husband and I listen to that the words say... (something like this) Can law be law when base on wrong? I think not. At some point, we can not keep following the laws because they are in place and it is the right thing to do. If a law is wrong, what if that law can NOT be changed? Then what? How much are we willing to give up before enough is enough? I am not advocating that anyone go out and break any laws. I am simply stating that some laws should not be on the books and we have to find a way to change it or be willing to face the consequences when standing up for what we think is right. I hope that you are able to have some form of defense where you live. I am tired of our people being disarmed and unprotected. "Law enforcement" can only do so much and some of them are the problem. Not all of them, just some of them. That is why it worries me that WE THE PEOPLE can not be armed and able to defend ourselves as originally designed. Good luck and stay safe!

CrufflerJJ | 03-31-2009 05:32 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wondering (Post 1655907) If he had tried to push his way in our home, as his wife did once in the past, we could just deploy the TASER, shut the door, call the cops and have them deal with him. Why TASER him? He is big and I do not want to struggle with trying to close my door nor do I want to kill him.
NO NO NO. Sorry to not be kind, sensitive, or understanding in this post, but if somebody tries to "push his way in our home", SHOOT THEM. Shoot them repeatedly. Shoot them until they drop to the ground. Shoot them until they stop posing a clear & immediate danger to you & yours. Anybody breaking into your home presents a lethal threat to you & your family members. It's all sweetness & nice that you don't want to kill the poor soul. Do you HONESTLY feel that he feels the same way about you & yours? If so, he would not dare to push his way into your home. "He is big". OK, so we have a size/strength disparity (possible justification for the use of deadly force). We have a history of this guy "pounding on your door 4 times one morning" after you dared to ask him to turn down the volume on his stereo. We apparently have a history of you calling the cops on this guy. Let's say that this gentleman pushes his way into your home. Where do you think it will end? Maybe he'll just leave after you offer him tea & cookies? Maybe he'll recoil in terror if you show him the scary Tazer? NO. I'm sorry, but if you don't realize this, you have no business owning a firearm or a Tazer. It will be taken from you & used against you & yours.

wondering | 03-31-2009 05:38 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1655987) Not attacking, but by your own hand you've told us you have raised a good little sheep. It's time to start the wolf lessons! Forget a tazer. Get a gun. If you care enough to aim a weapon, care enough to send the very best. Good luck.
By my own hand, I have also told about the gun, and how she reacted with a gun. That was the reason for the TASER. I was hoping to baby step her up to the gun. I had posted, she is 14 and so she is young, therefore not old enough to LEGALLY carry any of the devices. However, I want her to know how to use all of the devices because I carry them and they are in the house too. I want her to be confident because when she is old enough or we get to the point that I am ready to deal with any legal issues that come with her carrying before she is old enough, that she would be willing to use them if it became necessary. Pepper spray is 16 years old, I really do not care, I would deal with legal issues now. I know TASERS are 18 so I would have 4 years but I would still deal with it now if things got much worse. Handguns are 21 in this state. So again, some time off before she can LEGALLY carry. But as I have stated in my other posts, it may get to a point that legality may not be an issue to me. I would not have her carry anything she would not decisively be willing to use if necessary though. There are cases that I have to agree with you. I would rather them dead so I only have my story to tell if they were attacking me or my family.

wondering | 03-31-2009 05:52 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1656035) NO NO NO. Sorry to not be kind, sensitive, or understanding in this post, but if somebody tries to "push his way in our home", SHOOT THEM. Shoot them repeatedly. Shoot them until they drop to the ground. Shoot them until they stop posing a clear & immediate danger to you & yours. Anybody breaking into your home presents a lethal threat to you & your family members. It's all sweetness & nice that you don't want to kill the poor soul. Do you HONESTLY feel that he feels the same way about you & yours? If so, he would not dare to push his way into your home. "He is big". OK, so we have a size/strength disparity (possible justification for the use of deadly force). We have a history of this guy "pounding on your door 4 times one morning" after you dared to ask him to turn down the volume on his stereo. We apparently have a history of you calling the cops on this guy. Let's say that this gentleman pushes his way into your home. Where do you think it will end? Maybe he'll just leave after you offer him tea & cookies? Maybe he'll recoil in terror if you show him the scary Tazer? NO. I'm sorry, but if you don't realize this, you have no business owning a firearm or a Tazer. It will be taken from you & used against you & yours.
You have a point on some grounds. My idea of the TASER is that it does not always have to be lethal force. Not to mention, the TASER is a good begining and something that would give time to get the gun too. I can have my TASER in my purse ready to go and with the way the laws are, our guns are to be unloaded and such. Presumably, I would not open my door to idiots like that when they are like he is. But you could open the door to someone you know and they could go nuts. Who knows what we are facing anymore. Anyhow, you have made a good point for some circumstances, but not for all. Thank you for your input.

gangsta99 | 03-31-2009 05:54 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1656035) NO NO NO. Sorry to not be kind, sensitive, or understanding in this post, but if somebody tries to "push his way in our home", SHOOT THEM. Shoot them repeatedly. Shoot them until they drop to the ground. Shoot them until they stop posing a clear & immediate danger to you & yours. Anybody breaking into your home presents a lethal threat to you & your family members. It's all sweetness & nice that you don't want to kill the poor soul. Do you HONESTLY feel that he feels the same way about you & yours? If so, he would not dare to push his way into your home. "He is big". OK, so we have a size/strength disparity (possible justification for the use of deadly force). We have a history of this guy "pounding on your door 4 times one morning" after you dared to ask him to turn down the volume on his stereo. We apparently have a history of you calling the cops on this guy. Let's say that this gentleman pushes his way into your home. Where do you think it will end? Maybe he'll just leave after you offer him tea & cookies? Maybe he'll recoil in terror if you show him the scary Tazer? NO. I'm sorry, but if you don't realize this, you have no business owning a firearm or a Tazer. It will be taken from you & used against you & yours.
+10000000 this. What city, state you in so when it hits the news about a crazy neighbor killing his neighbors out of rage and all they had to try and stop him was a lousy tazer breaks we will be able to morn the loss. Because this is what will happen, you will not taze him and the police will come and save the day. Ok lets say you do taze him and the police get him, what happens the next time he comes at you and your family? Someone is going to die, will it be you and your family or him?

Heimdhal | 03-31-2009 06:05 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wondering (Post 1656075) You have a point on some grounds. My idea of the TASER is that it does not always have to be lethal force. Not to mention, the TASER is a good begining and something that would give time to get the gun too. I can have my TASER in my purse ready to go and with the way the laws are, our guns are to be unloaded and such. Presumably, I would not open my door to idiots like that when they are like he is. But you could open the door to someone you know and they could go nuts. Who knows what we are facing anymore. Anyhow, you have made a good point for some circumstances, but not for all. Thank you for your input.
Remember what I said earlier about knowing when to apply the incapacitate and run method and when not to. In your home is NOT that time. If they are coming into your house, like the other fellow said, you shoot them, shoot them dead, shoot them till they are no longer and threat(and maybe once more to make sure) but you dont stop shooting till you are out of ammo, or they are no longer a threat. NEVER NEVER NEVER think for one minute they DONT want to harm you or that the cops will deal with it. YOU DEAL WITH IT. A taser will put them out MAYBE for a minute or so, MAYBE. Thats enough time to get back up, pissed off, and try another ingress into your domicile. Hiding and waiting for the cops is a failed strategy in this case.

Snake Plissken | 03-31-2009 06:06 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? The first time your daughter is assaulted she will come 'round, if she lives through it. Unfortunately. I suggest you work at bursting her happy bubble before someone bursts it violently for her. And don't be bringing a taser to a gun fight, or any other instance where there is overwhelming force. Only lethal force will stop some gremlins, especially if they perceive weakness or the easily intimidated, as in a girl or young woman.

wondering | 03-31-2009 06:07 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1656060) Is this a tazer that fires darts and uses wires? Or a up close and personal put the 2 tines on them type?
Actually, it does both. It has the darts, but once the darts are fired it can work as a hand held device. The nice thing is that if it is one attacker, I can fire it, it goes off for 30 seconds, I can leave it behind. Hopefully get away. As long as I have filed a police report, get a copy of that police report, the company replaces the TASER for free! I am just hoping I never have us get to where we have to use them. But I like being prepared. I also like that it can be fired at 15 feet and still be used up close after being fired if needed. I still have the healthy knowledge and respect that like anything else, it can be turned on me. Thus the reason I would want to get the heck out of the situation and call the police as quick as I could to get help and make the report. It disburses confetti slips that have numbers to them that also prove that it was fired so they can use that number in the report. This is good to prove your story and bad if you use it in a crime. I will not be using it in any crimes so I am not worried.

Matt-themaddog-Dollar | 03-31-2009 06:12 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wondering (Post 1655745) OK, so I have to admit that I have raised my kids to be fairly non-violent. We have been ones to do all that we can to "use our words" to resolve conflicts.
This is when non-violent conflict resolution is appropriate: When you are at school or work or with family, and someone is being an asshole and instead of beating the hell out of them (which they deserve) you decide to use words. This is when non-violent conflict resolution is NOT appropriate: when a complete stranger threatens your person or property. In this circumstance you are justified in using deadly force to defend yourself because you are being threatened by a predator. You cannot trust the predator to abuse you a little and spare your life -- that is to bet against the predator's nature. The predator himself knows that you are justified in using deadly force and that there is a risk of you using deadly force, and that is why the predator also brings weapons. Be prepared to kill predators if confronted by them. If you don't stop them, they will prey upon others. If they don't stop them, they will prey upon others. Quote:
Originally Posted by wondering (Post 1655745) I have worked in the school system and that is what you are supposed to do.
And that's why we are a nation of pu$$ies. Quote:
Originally Posted by wondering (Post 1655745) So we have tried to think of less "violent" methods for her that would be something that could protect her enough to try to get away or at least give time for someone else get involved and save her butt!
Nobody wants to take responsibility for themselves. Everyone wants a bailout. Advice: Teach your daughter to grow balls. Teach her to distinguish good from evil. Teach her to distinguish courage from cowardice. Teach her to defend herself and her loved ones.

wondering | 03-31-2009 06:14 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by gangsta99 (Post 1656080) +10000000 this. What city, state you in so when it hits the news about a crazy neighbor killing his neighbors out of rage and all they had to try and stop him was a lousy tazer breaks we will be able to morn the loss. Because this is what will happen, you will not taze him and the police will come and save the day. Ok lets say you do taze him and the police get him, what happens the next time he comes at you and your family? Someone is going to die, will it be you and your family or him?
Maybe I am a fool, but I have had him arrested once before and he had to stay over night in jail. We went to court, the judge humiliated him, time went by and he has mellowed out, although now the music (three years later) is going back up, so killing is a big jump, not off my options list, if needed, but not the first on my list. If he were to act as wildly as he did the day we had him arrested, we would probably have him put down. PC speaking. I am not trying to sound like a moron but I am not trigger happy either.

Matt-themaddog-Dollar | 03-31-2009 06:18 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? If your aversion to violence is Christian-based, then remember this: Quote:
Luke 22 36 Then He said to them, �But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: �And He was numbered with the transgressors.�[d] For the things concerning Me have an end.� 38 So they said, �Lord, look, here are two swords.� And He said to them, �It is enough.�

CrufflerJJ | 03-31-2009 06:19 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wondering (Post 1656075) You have a point on some grounds. My idea of the TASER is that it does not always have to be lethal force. Not to mention, the TASER is a good begining and something that would give time to get the gun too. I can have my TASER in my purse ready to go and with the way the laws are, our guns are to be unloaded and such. Presumably, I would not open my door to idiots like that when they are like he is. But you could open the door to someone you know and they could go nuts. Who knows what we are facing anymore. Anyhow, you have made a good point for some circumstances, but not for all. Thank you for your input.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I don't agree, but such is life. :23_1_22: I've never used Tasers, or been Tased (so far, at least!), but have removed probes from some folks who have got to "ride the bull." Tasers are not 100% effective. Sometimes, you'll get one probe into the target, and the other one fails to attach (despite the barbed probes). Sometimes, the recipient of the electrical joy manages to break one or both of the thin copper wires (thus ruining the party). I guess what I'm asking you to consider is that the Taser may not be the best thing to use in a lethal encounter. If you're thinking about using the Taser as an intermediate "use of force" step, allowing you to get your pistol, I'd just ask you to reconsider that step. If things are so screwed up that you need a firearm, don't waste time with a Taser. The Taser is probably a decent alternative to OC (pepper spray), but not to a firearm. I usually carry OC, and a knife, and.... It's good to have alternatives. Sorry to hear that the laws require your firearms to be unloaded. Sounds pretty messed up. Do firearms in your home need to be unloaded, or just ones that you're carrying?

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Snake Plissken | 03-31-2009 06:23 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wondering (Post 1656113) but I am not trigger happy either.
There's this concept known as the judicious use of lethal force, which leans toward disengagement rather than engagement. Amazon Amazon If some gremlin does not perceive a cost in assaulting you, then they will.

CrufflerJJ | 03-31-2009 06:43 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake Plissken (Post 1656141) There's this concept known as the judicious use of lethal force, which leans toward disengagement rather than engagement. http://www.amazon.com/Gravest-Extrem.../dp/0936279001 If some gremlin does not perceive a cost in assaulting you, then they will.
In The Gravest Extreme is an excellent book. I also like The Gift of Fear, by Gavin DeBecker. It goes into a good bit of detail on how thugs will "interview" their targets, and repeatedly makes the point "if something just doesn't seem right to you, DO NOT ignore that feeling."

wondering | 03-31-2009 07:20 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1656105) I'm sorry you feel attacked, it's constructive criticism. I understand you want to FEEL safe...and we are offering you ways to BE safe. I hope you don't take offense. Good luck.
I am taking most of this in good strides. I am still having a hard time with my daughter's reaction, that is where most of my sensitivity is coming from. Thanks for the reassurance.

hypervel | 03-31-2009 07:32 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? This thread doesn't smell right.......you guys have fun.

wondering | 03-31-2009 07:33 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt-themaddog-Dollar (Post 1656120) If your aversion to violence is Christian-based, then remember this:
Quote:
Luke 22 36 Then He said to them, �But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: �And He was numbered with the transgressors.�[d] For the things concerning Me have an end.� 38 So they said, �Lord, look, here are two swords.� And He said to them, �It is enough.�
Originally, we owned guns, reading through scriptures and watching a movie there was a statement that was paraphrased from a scripture, live by the sword die by the sword. We got rid of all the guns. At first this seemed like a great idea. As time passed, we came across the same passage as you have quoted here. We struggled with our prior choice. We saw all that was going on in the world and thought, OMG what have we done? We have made many changes and are ready to protect ourselves now. We are not reduce to simple TASERs, I promise. My aversion to violence was based more because I worked with young children and it was consistently taught that we were to use our words, not our hands. Talk everything thing out. Take a time out. Do not get angry. All the nice and peaceful stuff. So after nearly ten years of teaching it and living it in a class room, raising my kids that way nearly 18 years because I lived in a community that had similar values that allowed us to live that way, it is hard to break that mold of thinking. I have had several eye openers in just three months in this area that has made me wake up. I hate going to the cities because I am afraid of what people may do now. I am wising up and my daughter has not had to face these realities. Believe me, it is not out of being stupid or Christian beliefs that has gotten me here. It was, I was blessed for so long to not have to face the reality of real life. Now I see it is now a curse. Thank you for your kind words.

wondering | 03-31-2009 07:40 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1656122) Thank you for your thoughtful response. I don't agree, but such is life. :23_1_22: I've never used Tasers, or been Tased (so far, at least!), but have removed probes from some folks who have got to "ride the bull." Tasers are not 100% effective. Sometimes, you'll get one probe into the target, and the other one fails to attach (despite the barbed probes). Sometimes, the recipient of the electrical joy manages to break one or both of the thin copper wires (thus ruining the party). I guess what I'm asking you to consider is that the Taser may not be the best thing to use in a lethal encounter. If you're thinking about using the Taser as an intermediate "use of force" step, allowing you to get your pistol, I'd just ask you to reconsider that step. If things are so screwed up that you need a firearm, don't waste time with a Taser. The Taser is probably a decent alternative to OC (pepper spray), but not to a firearm. I usually carry OC, and a knife, and.... It's good to have alternatives. Sorry to hear that the laws require your firearms to be unloaded. Sounds pretty messed up. Do firearms in your home need to be unloaded, or just ones that you're carrying?
Both in the home and when you carry, even concealed they have to be unloaded. However, magazines can be loaded and kept with the guns so it is a matter of five seconds. The idea of the TASER of being first line of defense while the gun is being gotten is this... one of us (me most likely) would be using the TASER while my husband would be getting the firearm. Our TASER can be more readily available LEGALLY. Also, I can carry my TASER without a permit. Now in CA I can carry a handgun UNLOADED, UNCONCEALED. However, you can and most likely will get arrested if you do not know your rights enough to fight it. Plus it costs money to fight it. There is a group that is going about doing just that. They are winning but I am not sure what is going to happen with it because our politicians still keep trying to pass gun and ammo laws against the law abiding. Wish us luck all over...

Caligula | 03-31-2009 07:40 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think?
I think you should have bought a gun. Having an "aversion to violence" does not mean that you will be spared from it. And yes....I read through the entire thread.

wondering | 03-31-2009 07:53 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1656175) In The Gravest Extreme is an excellent book. I also like The Gift of Fear, by Gavin DeBecker. It goes into a good bit of detail on how thugs will "interview" their targets, and repeatedly makes the point "if something just doesn't seem right to you, DO NOT ignore that feeling."
I agree about not ignoring the gut feeling. Often, I have listened to my gut feeling, nothing happens and I never know what would have happened if I had not listened. I do not want to know either. I think that was one of the things that bothered me about what happened with the girls when they were out...they thought about calling a parent and no call was made until nearly 1/2 hour later! I am not sure if I mentioned that part in this post. I know one of the best defenses is an offense, or avoidance. They had a cell phone that they could have used to call home or call 911 and they didn't do that until at least a 1/2 hour past! So much could have happened. By then, a rape comment had been made and the boys had followed them for over 3/4 a mile! There was an intention statement and physical action to show there might be good cause. I know one thing that we have changed rule wise, she is not going to be out in town if shops are NOT open. That was one other problem. There were no stores to go into for that 3/4 of a mile stretch. Sorry, I do not mean to sound hysterical. The more I think on it the more I think about how things need to change to prevent it from happening like this again.

wondering | 03-31-2009 07:55 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula (Post 1656263) I think you should have bought a gun. Having an "aversion to violence" does not mean that you will be spared from it. And yes....I read through the entire thread.
I have those too.

Ag_man | 03-31-2009 08:20 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wondering (Post 1656222) I am taking most of this in good strides. I am still having a hard time with my daughter's reaction, that is where most of my sensitivity is coming from. Thanks for the reassurance.
To those critical of Wondering, how many have raised a teen aged daughter? I have and understand his POV. Fortunately for me, my daughter took to firearms almost immediately and we live in a relatively low threat environment. She is competent with firearms, but as we live in a no CC state, carrying is not a legal option for us.

Raven | 03-31-2009 09:22 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Wondering, Buying a Tazer is NOT a bad thing to do. They can be effective (between 3-10 feet is optimal). Even if you have a gun, it's still good to have the option. And just the 'snap' of a stun gun will deter many. It's an ugly sound. You should have gotten an additional 'head' to practice with, so definately use it. I bought one for my wife as we cannot get ccw's here. You can still get the pepper spray also. At 14 I'd rather have my child still be a child. But the concept of martial arts is a good way to introduce 'right to life and freedom'. I believe the 'spiritual' axiom is "peace through strength". But you can introduce the 'Zen' of target shooting also. There is a book about it concerning archery. She most likely will have peer group pressure about either 'violence/gun is bad' or 'violence/gun is cool'. As hormones rage, better to be in the first group and not end up in jail for running with the wrong crowd. The odds of getting busted for hanging with other teens that want to carry guns is much higher that getting jumped by multiple attackers. The concept of valuing life but taking one if you have to is complex. Best of luck.

TTAZZMAN | 03-31-2009 10:21 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? I think a Tazer such as the C2 model is a excellent choice for several reasons...i have bought everyone in my immediate family one.. we all own and carry guns also.. so why a tazer here are a few of our reasons #1 we can carry it anywhere (school,church,traveling etc) #2 there are times a tazer is appropriate #3 it is non-leathal for those sort of situations #4 no CC classes no other BS to carry concealed #5 we did buy the tazer type that shoots darts out and also works with contact #6 some gals wont hesitate with a tazer ....some will with a gun #7 helps some in a intimidating situation to defuse the situation where with a gun once you display it you need to use it....not much in between MY thoughts are both have a place and a use You will be abused on here for even thinking about one undeservingly

Rebel Yarr | 03-31-2009 10:25 PM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? meh - if it is for a teenage daughter solely - yeah sure taser is fine - seriously doubt its effectiveness against an enraged person though. I'd try shooting outings a few more times.

Matt-themaddog-Dollar | 04-01-2009 04:15 AM
Re: Went to a Gun Show, Bought a TAZER What do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wondering (Post 1656250) Originally, we owned guns, reading through scriptures and watching a movie there was a statement that was paraphrased from a scripture, live by the sword die by the sword. We got rid of all the guns. At first this seemed like a great idea. As time passed, we came across the same passage as you have quoted here. We struggled with our prior choice. We saw all that was going on in the world and thought, OMG what have we done? We have made many changes and are ready to protect ourselves now. We are not reduce to simple TASERs, I promise.
I'm glad to hear that you are a thoughtful person who isn't afraid to adapt to new facts as they reveal themselves. My interpretation of the 'those who live by the sword will die by the sword' quotation is that it refers to a criminally aggressive person, since the context is in Revelation 13, where the Beast is described -- clearly, he is a type who lives by the sword. When Jesus sent out his disciples and told them to turn the other cheek and not take any money or anything on their travels, Jesus was alive while they were sent out on this mission. However, the night before Jesus' death was the time that he gave them new instructions: to have preps and swords. To me this means that when Jesus was alive, his disciples could rely on divine protection -- but when Jesus was not alive, his disciples would have to protect themselves.

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