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Freedom1 | 04-21-2009 08:51 PM
Not sure if this has been posted yet---Re-loaders beware http://gunowners.org/fs0901.htm GOA's CIFTA Treaty Analysis Obama Proposes Signing Treaty To Ban Reloading -- Even BB guns could be on the chopping block Gun Owners of America Fact Sheet 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 When President Obama went to Mexico in April, he proposed that the United States sign the Inter-American Convention Against Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, and Other Related Materials. Despite the fact that it purportedly deals with �illicit manufacturing and trafficking,� GOA is convinced that this convention defines these terms much more broadly and potentially presents serious dangers to Americans lawfully exercising their Second Amendment rights. PURPOSES AND DEFINITIONS Although the word �illicit� is used extensively in order to make the convention sound less anti-gun than it actually is, we need to look very carefully at the purposes and definitions to see whether it is, in fact, limited in scope to persons illegally moving guns across borders in order to arm violent criminal cartels: The seventh precatory clause �STRESS[ES] the need, in peace processes and post-conflict situations, to achieve effective control of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials in order to prevent their entry into the illicit market;� -- thereby endorsing comprehensive gun and ammunition control, in violation of McClure-Volkmer (which deregulated ammunition) and of the Second Amendment to the Constitution. Furthermore, the tenth precatory clause supports a �know-your-customer policy for dealers [in firearms]� -- something which would rapidly lead to an abolition of firearms in a country as large and transient as the United States. And the twelfth precatory clause acknowledges the rights of parties to enact their own gun laws, but only with respect to aspects of a �wholly domestic character.� We have seen, as recently as the April 15 New York Times, how battles with the Mexican drug cartels have been fanned into an issue which is being used to justify the passage of every major gun control initiative in modern American history. We see how these �slippery slope� findings are actually implemented when we look at the definitions: �Illicit manufacturing� of firearms is defined as �assembly of firearms [or] ammunition... without a license...� Hence, reloading ammunition -- or putting together a lawful firearm from a kit -- is clearly �illicit manufacturing.� Modifying a firearm in any way would surely be �illicit manufacturing.� And, while it would be a stretch, assembling a firearm after cleaning it could, in any plain reading of the words, come within the screwy definition of �illicit manufacturing.� �Firearm� has a similarly questionable definition. Borrowing from the open-ended definitions in federal law which have continue to vex us (and people like Olofson in Wisconsin), any barreled weapon �which... may be readily converted to expel a bullet� would be a firearm. Even worse, �any other weapon� (a term which is not defined) is a �firearm.� This surely includes BB guns -- and who knows what else. �Cartridge cases� and �projectiles� are defined as �ammunition.� SUBSTANTIVE PROVISIONS In Article IV, parties commit to adopting �necessary legislative or other measures� to criminalize illicit manufacturing and trafficking in firearms. Remember that �illicit manufacturing� includes reloading and modifying or assembling any firearm in any way. And, while treaties should not trump the Bill of Rights (in contrast to what the Supreme Court held in Missouri v. Holland), they do have the force of statute -- which would mean that the Obama administration could promulgate regulations on the basis of this treaty which would ban any modification or machining of any firearm in any manner whatsoever except by license of the government. Article IV goes on to state that the criminalized acts should include �association or conspiracy� in connection with �said offenses� -- which is arguably a term broad enough to allow, by regulation, the criminalization of entire pro-gun organizations or gun clubs, based on the facilities which they provide their membership. Article V requires each party to �adopt such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offenses it has established in accordance with this Convention� under a variety of circumstances. We know that Mexico is blaming U.S. gun dealers for the fact that its streets are flowing with blood. And we know it is possible for it to define offenses �committed in its territory� in a very broad way. And we know that we have an extradition obligation under Article XIX of the convention. And we also know that other countries such as Spain have tried to use their treaty powers to put American officials on trial. Article VI requires �appropriate markings� on firearms. And, it is not inconceivable that this provision could be used to require microstamping of firearms and/or ammunition -- a requirement which is clearly intended to impose specifications which are not technologically possible or which are possible only at a prohibitively expensive cost. Article VII requires confiscation and forfeiture of illicit firearms. Articles VIII, IX, and X would increase the role of government, in ways which cannot be foreseen, in supervising the import and export of firearms and ammunition. Article XI requires the maintenance of any records, for a �reasonable time,� that the government determines to be necessary to trace firearms. This provision would almost certainly repeal portions of McClure-Volkmer and could arguably be used to require a national registry or database. Article XIII authorizes the �exchange of information� with respect to FFL�s -- presumably providing information on Americans to the corrupt Mexican police which are the source of many, if not most, of the illicit firearms. Finally, under Article XXIX, if Mexico demands the extradition of a lawful American gun dealer, the U.S. would be required to resolve the dispute through �other means of peaceful settlement.� Does anyone want to risk sweltering in a Mexican jail at the mercy of the Obama administration? This fact sheet was prepared by Mike Hammond, GOA�s legislative counsel.

Silver001 | 04-22-2009 10:23 PM
Re: Not sure if this has been posted yet---Re-loaders beware Thanks Bill Clinton for signing the Iter Arms Treaty http://www.truthout.org/041609T President Obama Backs Inter-American Arms Treaty Thursday 16 April 2009 by: Scott Wilson | Visit article original @ The Washington Post During President Barack Obama's visit to Mexico today, he plans to announce that he will push for the US Senate to ratify a treaty designed to curb the flow of guns and ammunition to drug cartels in the southern hemisphere. (Photo: Reuters) Mexico City - President Obama will announce in a visit here today that he will push the U.S. Senate to ratify an inter-American arms trafficking treaty designed to curb the flow of guns and ammunition to drug cartels and other armed groups in the hemisphere. Senior administration officials confirmed that he will make the announcement after meeting with Mexican President Felipe Calderon this afternoon. The meeting is the centerpiece of Obama's first visit to Mexico, whose government is engaged in a broad war against heavily armed drug cartels now threatening the integrity of the state. "The Obama administration's commitment to seek ratification [of the treaty] is important because stemming the number of illegal firearms which flow into Latin America and the Caribbean is a high priority for the region and addresses a key hemispheric concern relating to people's personal security and well-being," said a senior Obama administration official. Obama's visit here, the first by a U.S. president to the capital in 13 years, represents a show of support for Calderon, who two years ago became the first Mexican president to so fully deploy the army against drug cartels supplying a enormously lucrative American market. Since then, more than 10,000 people have died in drug-related violence that is most intense along the U.S.-Mexican border. The Bush administration won approval for a three-year, $1.4 billion counter-narcotics package for Mexico and some Central American countries in June 2008, but the military hardware has been slow in arriving. Many of the guns used by the drug cartels travel south from the United States. Some assault rifles recovered by Mexican authorities have been traced back to U.S. military bases. In the days leading up to the president's visit here, senior Obama administration officials said the government was focused on enforcing existing U.S. laws to stop arms smuggling, although Mexican officials have called for more help. Obama's announcement on the treaty - formally known as the Inter-American Convention Against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives and other Related Items - will mark an additional step. The Clinton administration signed the treaty, better known by its Spanish acronym CIFTA, after the Organization of American States adopted it in 1997. In all, 33 countries in the hemisphere have signed the treaty. The United States is one of four nations that have yet to ratify the convention, although Obama administration officials say the U.S. government has sought to abide by the spirit of the treaty for years. The treaty requires countries to take a number of steps to reduce the illegal manufacture and trade in guns, ammunition and explosives. In addition to making illegal the unauthorized manufacture and exporting of firearms, the treaty calls for countries to adopt strict licensing requirements, mark firearms when they are made and imported to make them easier to trace, and establish a cooperative process for sharing information between national law-enforcement agencies investigating arms smuggling. Advocates for the treaty have argued that the United States, even if it is trying to follow many of the convention's requirements, is undermining its credibility by failing to ratify it. The treaty was sent to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1998, but no action has been taken since then. U.S. gun-rights groups participated as observers in drafting the treaty, which experts say includes language stating that it does not impinge on the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment. But U.S. advocates of the treaty say its passage bogged down in the waning days of the Clinton administration, and never emerged as a priority for the Bush administration. Jorge Chabat, a professor of international studies at the Center for Research and Teaching in Economics in Mexico City, said Obama's advocacy for the treaty marks "an important step toward ending the permissiveness in the United States" toward arms trafficking on its border. "Obviously there is a part of this that is symbolic," Chabat said. "But President Obama has moved to do more against this arms trafficking from the U.S., and this is part of that. There is a great deal of fear behind this that the border violence will enter the United States." Johanna Mendelson Forman, senior associate of the Americas Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, said "this goes beyond symbolism." "It sends not only a positive message to Mexico, but also to the region that the United States wants to be a reliable partner in improving security," she said.

ruprick | 04-22-2009 10:41 PM
Re: Not sure if this has been posted yet---Re-loaders beware How would they ever know what you make in your basement? Anyone that owns a gun is a fool not to have reloading equipment, materials and basic skills.

electric-amish | 04-23-2009 12:48 AM
Re: Not sure if this has been posted yet---Re-loaders beware I think the Senate has to ratify this. There would be many International Criminals created over night. WooooWeeeee look at growth of law enforcement jobs. E-A

VPW | 04-24-2009 06:23 AM
Re: Not sure if this has been posted yet---Re-loaders beware Enforcement would likely take the form of licensing reloading and having to show the license to get components.

ruprick | 04-24-2009 06:38 AM
Re: Not sure if this has been posted yet---Re-loaders beware Buy any reloading component you can find today....will never be cheaper than right now. Can't get primers.....buy powder and brass. Buy bullet molds and hoard lead. Get about a ton of raw, smelted lead and over start casting bullets - you can build a pile of nearly a 100,000 bullets over time....I know this first hand....and you can stockpile super high quality reloads at about 25% the cost of factory ammo. Why does everyone wait until the last minute to get what will obviously be much more difficult to get down the road? Do not wait - stop jacking around.....many have waited too long on primers and are now in a jam. Go Go Go.

Tn...Andy | 04-24-2009 06:56 AM
Re: Not sure if this has been posted yet---Re-loaders beware Why does everyone wait until the last minute to get what will obviously be much more difficult to get down the road? Exactamundo................my personal creed is to NOT be in that crowd.

Po'boy | 04-24-2009 07:31 AM
Re: Not sure if this has been posted yet---Re-loaders beware Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1691876) Buy any reloading component you can find today....will never be cheaper than right now. Can't get primers.....buy powder and brass. Buy bullet molds and hoard lead. Get about a ton of raw, smelted lead and over start casting bullets - you can build a pile of nearly a 100,000 bullets over time....I know this first hand....and you can stockpile super high quality reloads at about 25% the cost of factory ammo. Why does everyone wait until the last minute to get what will obviously be much more difficult to get down the road? Do not wait - stop jacking around.....many have waited too long on primers and are now in a jam. Go Go Go.
Is it possible to remove the lead from car batteries? Possibly use baking soda to neutralize the acid then melt the lead.

kiwi_envoy | 04-24-2009 08:31 AM
Re: Not sure if this has been posted yet---Re-loaders beware Quote:
Originally Posted by Po'boy (Post 1691905) Is it possible to remove the lead from car batteries? Possibly use baking soda to neutralize the acid then melt the lead.
Maybe lead is still used in roofing in USA? There is stacks of roofing lead in use here in Aussie.

shades2 | 04-24-2009 12:04 PM
Re: Not sure if this has been posted yet---Re-loaders beware Quote:
Originally Posted by Po'boy (Post 1691905) Is it possible to remove the lead from car batteries? Possibly use baking soda to neutralize the acid then melt the lead.
Older wet-cell car batteries are better for this as they used basic lead plates, preferrably ones that failed early in their life as there is more lead present. They use antimony in the lead plates to give them some strength. Newer car batteries use AGM (absorbed glass mat) low-maintenance technology with purer lead but enveloped in absorbent glass mat which holds electrolyte. So the lead will likely be harder to get at. The main problem with car batteries is they are very rugged and a bitch to cut open. I tried once with a hacksaw and only got so far on a battery case, with just a hacksaw can take an hour or more to pull apart. (Drain electrolyte first). And remember you are dealing with lead so be careful of environmental concerns and washing your hands later or better yet wearing gloves. To smelt lead you can do that on an old stove or coal/gas BBQ. Do not breathe in any fumes, and avoid getting the temperature too high to avoid fuming. Borax can be used to clean the lead up if desired, but it is usually pretty good in it's existing form, just skim off the contaminants, which are usually things like antimony (but remember it adds strength to the lead so it's not necessarily a bad thing).

stranger | 04-24-2009 12:22 PM
Re: Not sure if this has been posted yet---Re-loaders beware Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1689965) How would they ever know what you make in your basement?
My guess is that things like this can/will be coupled with things like the St Pete Gun Bounty in a recent thread on here. Pretty soon it'll be every "good citizen's" patriotic duty to report dirty domestic terrorists for manufacturing ammunition and hoarding firearms. :36_1_28::36_1_28::36_1_28:

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