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AMforPM | 07-05-2008 09:22 AM
Mossberg Question That I hope some of our GIM firearms experts might know and reply to. Mossberg has put out a great home defense or bug out version of the mariner pump model. Can that be fitted to an semiautomatic action by a gunsmith without excessive hassle? Because the gun is for both of us I need an autoloader, but all the other features of this one are ideal to me for home defense, and it has good bug out characteristics too. http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=28 If they change the shotgun lead page, they call it the JIC or just in case. It has the 18 1/2 inch marinecote barrel option, a waterproof floating case, and that nice pistol grip for not having such a long gun for home defense. Or could I start from an auto and put on the marinecote barrel and pistol grip easier?

Keef | 07-05-2008 09:57 AM
Re: Mossberg Question No expert here, but I would sure like to get that carrying case for mine. I just bought that Mossberg 500 specifically because I am not an expert with guns, but came to the conclusion we all may need some solid home defense in the future. I think it's a great gun, a lot of fun to handle and shoot. I never was any good with a pistol, terrible shot, and don't have easy access to a range to become proficient. So, it's shotgun for me. It would be a shame to loose that rack (maybe a forend pistol grip would make it possible for you to pump?) They say the sliding mechanisms are built loose intentionally for greater reliability. But in reality, they rack extremely loud and that sound alone has been known to make the bad guys retreat fast and head out for easier targets. When the experts get here, I would guess they would recommend modifying a semi-auto into a pistol grip to get your desired effect. If they haven't already while I am writing this post. Outside of that, I might think a .20 gauge would be easier to handle if wife/teens will be trained to use them. It would be hard to miss with that gun at close range. It could spare you or your love ones great harm and really provide some security as the times become more treacherous. But, too bad you have to change the loading, racking that gun is half the fun..:D

AMforPM | 07-05-2008 10:28 AM
Re: Mossberg Question It is the wife who thinks she does not want a pump. She says under stress just pulling the trigger and aiming is all she wants to worry with. I had thought a 2nd pistol grip might make pump action better, but sometimes I'm away at night, and I want her as confident of the shotgun as she is of her revolver. We may have her try out pump action again... but I sure do not want her to have, in effect, a 1 shot shotgun, though that beats no shotgun at all. Oddly, recoil does not bother her. I'm a wimp compared to her on recoil. Maybe I made it sound so bad she was surprised. Like you, we both hope we never have to use it, and the odds are good we won't - nice low barking alert dog, modest house and vehicles... but if we do need it then we will really need it.

Ag_man | 07-05-2008 11:41 AM
Re: Mossberg Question If you concerned that your wife is going to have a problem with a pump shotgun in a crisis situation, there's 2 approaches, extensive training with the pump gun (preferred), or going with an autoloader (training still required). I know a lot of people here like the Saiga, but I think the Remington 1100 TAC is the better choice. http://www.remington.com/products/fi...0_tactical.asp

AMforPM | 07-05-2008 01:29 PM
Re: Mossberg Question Dad considered the 1100 the most reliable semiautomatic. I bet there are aftermarket ways to shorten it to pistol grip. His kicked like a mule (IMO) but my wife, when we shot with dad, liked his 1100 and did not complain about the kick. I had maybe over warned her about 12ga kick.

SAUM | 07-05-2008 02:32 PM
Re: Mossberg Question Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM (Post 1177650) Oddly, recoil does not bother her. I'm a wimp compared to her on recoil. Maybe I made it sound so bad she was surprised.
Smaller frames move with the recoil rather than absorbing it.

____hoot____ | 07-05-2008 11:01 PM
Re: Mossberg Question Mossberg's safety will BREAK in real cold weather, buy and learn how to put in a spare

AZLiberty | 07-06-2008 11:47 PM
Re: Mossberg Question My father's Rem 1100 is on it's second barrel, and it's still unreliable. The new barrel has the short chamber with 2 gas ports and it still only reliably feeds a second round using heavy loads. (the old barrel was 100% unreliable with standard loads) I could never recommend one for home defense. The Rem 11-87 is supposed to be much more reliable though. The Mossberg 930 is supposed to be pretty good as well, but I've never used one.

AceNZ | 07-07-2008 10:16 AM
Re: Mossberg Question You shouldn't have any trouble replacing a standard stock with a pistol grip or replacing the standard barrel with a shorter one. But I wouldn't advise it. Aiming with a pistol grip is a real challenge -- especially without lots of practice. The most effective way to use a shotgun in home defense is when an assailant is still some distance away. For room-to-room, inside the house defense, a pistol is really a better choice. "Keep a shotgun by the front door, and a pistol in the bedroom," as they say. Also, those changes will lighten the gun and substantially increase recoil, which adds to the control and aiming difficulties.

eat_beef | 07-07-2008 12:05 PM
Re: Mossberg Question There is no cost effective way to do that. You could get a SPAS 12, which is built as a pump/semi auto, but they cost upwards of a grand. Your best bet is to get a semi and have it 'marine coated', which is nickel, IIRC. Your best bet is to get an 870 marine, and have your wife learn to use it. I know that is a problem (don't ask how I know:bear_whistle:), but she really needs some training, and she'll get the handle of a pump before she gets everything else she needs to know. BTW, unless you're already set up with 12ga, I'd suggest a 20. There really isn't a whole lot of difference on the business end {between dead/in a thousand smithereens (20ga) vs. dead/in a million smithereens (12ga)} but there is a huge amount of difference on the recoil end. If it's going to mean less training, drop the 12ga. (That said, I'm young, tough, and stoopid enough to stick with the 12:emotions16:.)

SilverCity | 07-07-2008 12:44 PM
Re: Mossberg Question Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM (Post 1177781) Dad considered the 1100 the most reliable semiautomatic. I bet there are aftermarket ways to shorten it to pistol grip. His kicked like a mule (IMO) but my wife, when we shot with dad, liked his 1100 and did not complain about the kick. I had maybe over warned her about 12ga kick.
Remington 1100s are not reliable in my experience. I had one I bought used in excellent condition that would jam up with any loads after about ten rounds. Had four gunsmiths look at it including an authorized Remington service representative...no help. I took it back to the gunshop where I bought it and the owner very graciously allowed me to pick out another 1100. I did and promptly traded it at another shop for a new Benelli Super 90 (plus cash of course). It is the only autoloader I own. A long-time trap shooter friend told me over the years he has seen 1100s malfunction on the firing line too many times and does not recommend them.

SilverCity | 07-07-2008 12:51 PM
Re: Mossberg Question 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM (Post 1177650) It is the wife who thinks she does not want a pump. She says under stress just pulling the trigger and aiming is all she wants to worry with. I had thought a 2nd pistol grip might make pump action better, but sometimes I'm away at night, and I want her as confident of the shotgun as she is of her revolver. We may have her try out pump action again... but I sure do not want her to have, in effect, a 1 shot shotgun, though that beats no shotgun at all. Oddly, recoil does not bother her. I'm a wimp compared to her on recoil. Maybe I made it sound so bad she was surprised. Like you, we both hope we never have to use it, and the odds are good we won't - nice low barking alert dog, modest house and vehicles... but if we do need it then we will really need it.
Have a serious look at the Saiga 12 or 20 gauge...soft recoiling auto based on the Kalashnikov...they have a substantial following.

AMforPM | 07-07-2008 03:32 PM
Re: Mossberg Question Dad must have been lucky. He never had 1 jam with his 1100 and he shot a lot of skeet with it. Maybe it liked 1 ammo and he knew which, or he just got a good one. Thanks for all the advice. I'll ask her to try pump action again, and also look at the saiga. If the pump action cuts her confidence, then I am going with semi auto. I know for certain we will not practice enough. We both hate shooting at ranges and we just never get around to much of it. But I'm trying to talk her into some pro instruction this summer. I think she is getting interested. The few times I took her to the range she shot a 12 ga accurately enough for home defense. And you are right that the pistol grip would ruin normal long gun aiming technique. I was thinking of mounting a laser on the JIC if we got that. I think seeing a red dot on your body might have an effect similar to hearing a pump action operated. And thanks for explaining the marine cote. The old way in my family was the shotgun rack over the door and the bedroom revolver. Nowdays some friends would faint if they saw a gun racked over the front door. It was only in my grandparents' rural residence where that was last practiced in my family. We are discussing where to hang it out of casual sight but easy to hand.

AMforPM | 07-07-2008 04:06 PM
Re: Mossberg Question I just went saiga internet window shopping and hit nothing but 'out of stock'. I feel pretty sure there are some for sale, but it looks like it is popular and selling well.

SilverCity | 07-07-2008 04:18 PM
Re: Mossberg Question Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM (Post 1180554) I just went saiga internet window shopping and hit nothing but 'out of stock'. I feel pretty sure there are some for sale, but it looks like it is popular and selling well.
They are popular and tend to sell out quickly when a new shipment arrives. You might scour your local gun shows for a good used one...other than that, we'll just have to wait.

eat_beef | 07-07-2008 04:37 PM
Re: Mossberg Question AM, you could also try a folding stock, it gives you the portability of a pistol grip, with a real stock. Pistol grips (those without shoulder stocks) on shotguns are beyond useless. If you think recoil is bad with a shotgun, wait until you feel it all on one wrist! Also, I'd advise against a shotgun at the door. If someone kicks in your door, at best they're between you and your most powerful weapon. At worst, they're using it against you.

LiquidFactor | 07-07-2008 04:53 PM
Re: Mossberg Question Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1180586) AM, you could also try a folding stock, it gives you the portability of a pistol grip, with a real stock. Pistol grips (those without shoulder stocks) on shotguns are beyond useless. If you think recoil is bad with a shotgun, wait until you feel it all on one wrist! Also, I'd advise against a shotgun at the door. If someone kicks in your door, at best they're between you and your most powerful weapon. At worst, they're using it against you.
Do not shoot your pistol grip from the hip (Hollywood BS), it will tear your wrist up, no matter the load. Bring the weapon up shoulder high, so your wrist is locked straight, with no bend . . . this brings the weapon closer to your face but you will not hit your face with the recoil.

AMforPM | 07-07-2008 05:03 PM
Re: Mossberg Question I was looking at the saiga with folding stock. Good points. And no, we won't store any firearms where they are easily visible. In an urban environment those old rural ways are out. First, the dogs are not sleeping on the porch so you would get to the gun first, and 2nd, some of our friends are frightened of guns and really would nearly faint. We do keep loaded guns in the house, but if friends want to bring their kids over the house rule is kids cannot be out of adult sight even for a minute. A kid with no gun training could get hurt in just a minute if they happened to see one of our guns, though they would have to be doing things they shouldn't to see one. But our friends all go along with that rule generally expressed as 'our house is very not child safe, we have loaded guns'.

SilverCity | 07-07-2008 05:18 PM
Re: Mossberg Question 2 Attachment(s) If you find a Saiga, Tony Rumore does conversions to pistol grip configuration: http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm Or buy directly from Atlantic Firearms (when they get any). http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...asp?Prodid=405

AMforPM | 07-08-2008 02:26 PM
Re: Mossberg Question I was looking at their website, and seeing 'out of stock'. If you plunk down a deposit can you get on a waiting list?

gangsta99 | 07-08-2008 03:53 PM
Re: Mossberg Question I am looking to pick up a Saiga in 7.62 x 39 this weekend that isn't already converted to pistol grip. Anyone here have any experience with these types of conversions? Do I need to have access to machinist style equipment to convert this? Oh yeah also hoping to get a good deal on a Saiga 12 gauge. I really really really want one of these.

SilverCity | 07-08-2008 05:12 PM
Re: Mossberg Question Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM (Post 1182108) I was looking at their website, and seeing 'out of stock'. If you plunk down a deposit can you get on a waiting list?
Atlantic Firearms? Try an email message...about the only way to correspond with them. I am in the process of ordering an AK from them myself. The website indicates they are swamped with orders and now require the $100 deposit and several weeks waiting period. I sent the money in, but am still waiting... Or you might try contacting Tony Rumore himself at Tromix. He may give you more reliable information on Saiga availability. Contact Tony by phone: (918) 251-5640 Hours of Operation Monday - Thursday Noon - 5pm (Central Time) Tromix Corp 405 N. Walnut Ave #8 Broken Arrow, OK 74012

SilverCity | 07-08-2008 05:14 PM
Re: Mossberg Question Quote:
Originally Posted by gangsta99 (Post 1182256) I am looking to pick up a Saiga in 7.62 x 39 this weekend that isn't already converted to pistol grip. Anyone here have any experience with these types of conversions? Do I need to have access to machinist style equipment to convert this? Oh yeah also hoping to get a good deal on a Saiga 12 gauge. I really really really want one of these.
I haven't done the conversion myself, but the best place for information: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showforum=67

Keef | 07-10-2008 02:39 PM
Re: Mossberg Question 1 Attachment(s) I also like the Sagia 12 and am thinking about getting on a waiting list for one. But I think the most bang for your buck is still with the Mossberg. If you can handle the recoil, where else can you get this much firepower for under $300? And the barrel maginzine holds EIGHT rounds.. Personally, I like the pistol grip better than the shoulder stock, it's easy to manuver the gun in tight situations and it took me about 15 minutes to install a second pistol grip on the forend to help contol recoil and I've never taken a gun apart before in my life. Sure, I'd LIKE the Sagia with a tactical setup and 20 round drum magizine. But if I wanted to buy something TODAY I'd go Mossberg. 12 gauge Mossberg 500--$289. Simple and inexpensive home defense solution.

SLV>GLD | 07-10-2008 03:55 PM
Re: Mossberg Question Quote:
Originally Posted by SAUM (Post 1177842) Smaller frames move with the recoil rather than absorbing it.
This is the case. One day on the range we were running through a battery of shotties and most everyone was complaining about sore shoulders and wrists from all the recoil. Me, easily being the smallest in the crowd, piped up that I was just getting broke in and could continue at this pace for a couple more hours. Someone pointed out that smaller folk don't get hit as hard because they get moved around by the recoil. He proved his point by placing a stick at my toe-line before firing a few shells. When I looked down my toes were easily 8" behind the stick and there was visible scraping on the ground from my feet sliding back from the blasts. This "advantage" works the other way around when the little guy is trying to hang onto a hand cannon. It pays to have some serious density when trying to spit lead from your palms as opposed to your shoulder.

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