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- - Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=436066)

FunnyMoney | 12-30-2009 04:33 PM
Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach There is only one large armed middle class left. There probably are few million peace and freedom loving individuals with guns at various places around the world. But when you look at large economic blocks of workers it's impossible to find a large armed group of them. Except inside the USA. It would be a mistake to think this will last, JMHO. But face it: the silver was removed from the coins all over the world 50 years ago; and the guns removed from the poeple nearly everywhere long ago as well. The propaganda has had time to change attitudes too. By way of very expensive, hard to get arms/ammo, by way of heavy regulations/new laws, or by some combination of factors or sudden incidents, I believe with a very high degree of certainty, that the guns will become very difficult to hold or get more of in the USA, and SOON. I understand about the black market, but for peace loving, average law abiding workers, if they don't have their protection now, at some point in the future, it will be very difficult for them to obtain. There are 3 types of people: govt people, criminals, and peace and freedom loving individuals. The first two types will always have arms (logic and history have proven that each and every time). It's the third group that really needs them and as I explained in another thread, it's down to the 2nd and the world is mostly against it. So the question for GIM members, is when does Armed Self Protection Become Out of Reach for the average middle class worker? Right now, you can still get a few guns and a stockpile of ammo for under a few thousand dollars, much more, if you are willing to go lower end or into the used market. With another relatively small chunk of money and time you can train and practice all the safety procedures - people spend much more time combing their hair than on personal protection, so I believe they have the ability today to protect themselves if they want to. I know a thousand dollars is a lot of money for a lot of middle class families, but exercising one's God given self protection rights are important enough to get beyond these current costs. But what if the cost of the basic model handgun goes into 5 digits? What if ammo and the materials that are used to make it become much more difficult to get? What if the govt pushes the businesses which sell guns and promote safe self protection into even more regulations to the point they can longer function as a business? What if there's some kind of "incident" and the govt decides "something must be done" regarding ownership of arms? The cost or ability to self protect could easily become out of reach for the average middle class worker. I think it is bound to happen sooner or later, the only question is when.

BellevueBully | 12-30-2009 04:46 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach I agree. They will go after the guns, no doubt. There's a saying about that......cold,dead hands or something along those lines.

Operation Grief | 12-30-2009 04:55 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach Quote:
Originally Posted by FunnyMoney (Post 2101047) But what if the cost of the basic model handgun goes into 5 digits?
The ATF stamp for Class III weapons has been stuck at $200 since 1934. When it costs $10,000 to apply for a short-barrel shotgun or suppressor, then start to worry.

St. Germain | 12-30-2009 06:33 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach There are roughly 250 million guns (legally held) in the continental US. This number does not account for illegal weapons and those that have "disappeared" into attics and closets as they have been handed down from the original owner to friends and family. I had a friend that was given an old .38 snubby (loaded) by his Grandma - she had it stashed in her dresser drawer for nearly 60 years. She figured she wouldn't need it at the nursing home she was moving to. The genie is out of the bottle - all TPTB can do is to attempt to regulate the sale of ammunition. Good luck with that. ST

wallew | 12-30-2009 07:16 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach The number of firearms held in American gun owners is in excess of 400 million and the number grows daily. The NUMBER of gun owners in America has exceeded 100 million. if FIVE percent of those people who own guns and know how to use them 'stand up' against tyranny, that's five million people with the normal ownership of AT LEAST four guns each. That's two and a half times larger than the largest army on earth (CHINA - 1.7M). We seem to go through this every few weeks... From 2008: You Tube
You Tube
From 2009: 1,000,000+ Guns Added to American Homes in August Another 1,000,000+ Guns Added to American Homes in August Background Checks On Firearm Sales Up 12% In August. Americans buy 1,074,757+ guns in August 2009 Washington, DC --(AmmoLand.com)- Data released by the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) reported 1,074,757 checks in August 2009, a 12.3 percent increase from the 956,872 reported in August 2008. So far that is roughly 9,076,205 gun bought this year! The total is probably more as NICS background checks may cover the purchase of more than one gun at a time. This latest jump in background checks show that Americans are solidly in-favor of keeping firearms in the hands of law abiding citizens and clearly shows that proponents claiming the USA wants more gun control are blatantly wrong. Gun Owners Say No to Gun Conrtol with their Wallets The increased trend of Americans buying firearms at a record pace was once thought to be a one time fluke caused by fears of the new Obama administration expressed lust for more gun control. But now 10 months in and the wrongly named “fear buying” has now become the norm as law abiding US citizen exercise their constitutional right to keep and bear firearms by the millions every month with no sign of slowing down. The bulk of the buying has been concentrated on the following types of guns or calibers: Semi Auto Handguns Revolvers Ar15s and all variants of the Black Rifle .50 Caliber 1.17 Guns for Each Person Conservative estimates of legally owned guns in the USA put the number at 355,029,250 million guns in the USA. That is 1.17 guns for everyone in the USA and if you listen to the liberal press they are all assault weapons. God bless anyone who tries to invade the USA… Crime Rates Falling The most stunning in all of this is that we have not seen an increase in crime, murder rates have fallen across most of the USA and Americans have shown that they can be trusted with firearms ownership. This is directly in contrast to what the national media and gun control supporters would have us believe. Gun owners you are clearly the majority! http://www.ammoland.com/2009/09/04/1...merican-homes/ NOTE: Three you tube vids at this link, plus a chart that shows over 104M firearms sold in the past ten years (ish)... Admiral Yamamoto said it best, 'behind every blade of grass'...

Tn...Andy | 12-30-2009 08:01 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach Hey......SOMEBODY post that "Gun salesman of the Year" poster....you know, the guy currently masquarading as POTUS..... Ok...found it... http://burniethompson.com/files/2009...n-salesman.jpg

Corbin Dallas | 12-30-2009 08:31 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Germain (Post 2101200) There are roughly 250 million guns (legally held) in the continental US. The genie is out of the bottle - all TPTB can do is to attempt to regulate the sale of ammunition. Good luck with that. ST
Arnold Kennedy-schwartzenpecker has already gotten the ammo ban ball rolling in Kalifornia.

jc7622 | 12-30-2009 09:53 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach A lot of people are buying guns in case they outlaw them, but there is a paper trail showing who bought what. Some people have owned guns for so long that there isn't even a record of their existence. Most of the latter will escape confiscation if the time ever comes. Then the problem comes when you are forced to use one and make it known that you still have one in your posession. Another solution would be to make an improvised weapon that can be discarded and destroyed after use. An example would be the shotgun made with two pieces of pipe and an end cap. Even with the weapon discarded it will be hard to explain the shot dead intruder when it is illegal to own a firearm. It's going to get complicated.

jetgraphics | 12-30-2009 10:04 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 2101271) The NUMBER of gun owners in America has exceeded 100 million. if FIVE percent of those people who own guns and know how to use them 'stand up' against tyranny, that's five million people with the normal ownership of AT LEAST four guns each.
What "tyranny"? Do you mean "freedom" as defined by national socialism under the wise guidance of the Collective State? I find that the socialist propaganda that I was fed over the years has left a sour taste in my mouth. We haven't been a "free nation" since 1933, the year of capitulation to the creditor. We've been under a perpetual "temporary" State of Emergency, since that year. We've been a socialist nation, since 1935. All ten planks of the communist manifesto have been enacted or implemented, via Executive order. Congress hasn't dared to declare war since 1945, yet still authorized the destruction and death, done on orders of its true master. "Free Americans" need government permission to wed, travel, fly, own a business, buy medical supplies, give medical treatment, enter occupations, transmit radio, build a house, or own a dog. "Free Americans" have to pay a tax to live and to die. They pay a tax on what they earn, spend, own and save. If that's "Freedom", perhaps we need a new definition for the term. However, since everyone volunteered to be a socialist via FICA, there's no grounds to object. He who consents cannot complain! Now, if after 51% leave national socialism, usury and subjugation, and the servant government trespasses the inalienable rights of the sovereign people THEN and only THEN would I conclude that tyranny was afoot. But according to the laws on the books, the servant government has not trespassed upon the inalienable rights, natural and personal liberty, of the American national, free inhabitant, domiciled upon his private property within the boundaries of the United States of America. In short, do not foment a slave revolt - they end badly. It is far simpler to just stop volunteering into servitude.

FunnyMoney | 12-31-2009 12:03 AM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach jetgraphics, this is totally off topic and has absolutely nothing to do with the intention of this thread, but for a long time I've read your thesis about FICA and US corp. and I think you are missing something. I know you will also know the meaning of the phrase "under duress". What the people of this nation, over time, have been put under is a form of slavery where the only way to eat and survive is by compliance to the system. For the vast majority they have either entered into the agreement with US corp either under duress or have been tricked into it without the full understanding of its ramifications. Such a trick or duress situation is either a fraud or an assault. So in that light, it seems that one's pursuit of life, liberty and freedom has been trespassesed upon. To be clear about the nature of the poll... I know that there's a lot of guns, but if you have 4 guns, you're not likely to sell one, especially if they suddenly become very hard to obtain. The poll is asking more about new buyers that will come into the market for guns/ammo, and how soon that becomes extremely costly or difficult - not about who already has them.

State of Jefferson | 12-31-2009 12:43 AM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach Quote:
Originally Posted by FunnyMoney (Post 2101047) There are 3 types of people: govt people, criminals
What's the difference? :dontknow: The Obamanation and his Bolshevik Commissars Holder and Napolitano (perhaps Commissar Sibelius, too - you know, the "public health menace" angle) will surely be tackling gun control in 2010. Especially after his defeat on Crap and Trade, and probably a defeat on Obamacare after the House refuses to adjust their version of the bill. He'll need a "victory." Gun control will pass the Con-gress, and no, "blue dog" Democrats won't save you. I predict we'll have another couple of high profile mass shootings to loosen them up right before the pre-made "law" is introduced, with a vote scheduled two hours after a multi-thousand page bill is given to the members. Expect: "Assault weapons" ban. Normal capacity magazine ban. Ammunition bans on selected types of bullets. Ammunition taxes on all ammo - 300%, perhaps. Registration of all handguns, along with "fees" (taxes) to own them. "Firearms Owner's ID process" nationwide - like Obama's Illinois' current system - all firearms owners or operators must be "tested for 'safety'." Ban on ownership of any firearm by any political "criminal" (no fly list listees) or combat-wounded veterans or "mentally ill" people (including those ever treated for depression, anxiety, or other minor, common ailments) Ban on imported firearms and imported ammo. Ban on interstate shipment of guns or ammo without FFL. Ban on reloading equipment (can't have people making "illegal" ammunition). Millions of new American gunowners are also predicting this, as can be seen by the continuing trouble finding ammunition for many due to extreme demand, and the many millions of firearms purchased since the American Idol was selected last year.

Twisted Avatar | 12-31-2009 07:20 AM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach When does Armed Self Protection Become Out of Reach for the average middle class worker? It really doesnt matter.......... If you only notice when the price is skyrocketing on arms Then that is a clear indication you werent paying attention Your fate is not for you to decide. It will be in the hands of others......... pray, that they will be merciful to you. T

Julian | 12-31-2009 10:52 AM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach Hard to say, but we're not there yet. As it is right now, you can still get an AK, 2500 rds of ammo(sealed), and 10 mags for $1000. That's a damn good start...

teedub31 | 12-31-2009 01:37 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach I need the parameters of "Armed Self Protection" better defined. Are we talking self protection from say wander maurader, thugs, zombies etc. If so, I got enough to defend myself and family from those occurances. However, If you are talking "Armed Self Protection" in the form of armed resistance from TPTB, then we might already be out gunned.

State of Jefferson | 12-31-2009 04:16 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach Quote:
Originally Posted by teedub31 (Post 2102488) I need the parameters of "Armed Self Protection" better defined. Are we talking self protection from say wander maurader, thugs, zombies etc. If so, I got enough to defend myself and family from those occurances. However, If you are talking "Armed Self Protection" in the form of armed resistance from TPTB, then we might already be out gunned.
If one stands on the side of God and Truth, and has courage and willpower, one is never outgunned. "And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?...The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst; the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!" Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

FunnyMoney | 12-31-2009 04:56 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach Quote:
Originally Posted by teedub31 (Post 2102488) I need the parameters of "Armed Self Protection" better defined. Are we talking self protection from say wander maurader, thugs, zombies etc. If so, I got enough to defend myself and family from those occurances. However, If you are talking "Armed Self Protection" in the form of armed resistance from TPTB, then we might already be out gunned.
I didn't really take it from that angle, not that it's not a good point and discussion is open, so yes, this is a very important point, possibly even more important than what the poll is asking. What I was trying to get at, which the poll software doesn't really let you say due to limited string size, is about newcomers to the awareness of the 2nd. Say for instance some family man in their 20s, starts reading history and figures out that it could become a problem that both the govt and the criminals (I understand they are often the same) have guns and they don't. So what happens if they go down to the only gun store within 20 miles of their home and find out there's a 5 yr licensing wait period or have to jump through a mountain of loops that a simple worker can't afford to? Or what if a low end hand gun and 10 rounds of ammo is all they can possibly afford, even after saving for years? That would not be considered a complete personal and family protection plan. That was the pivot point I was looking for, to of course add to the potential sudden event where the guns are made illegal to buy/sell except for govt.

State of Jefferson | 12-31-2009 06:41 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach Quote:
Originally Posted by FunnyMoney (Post 2102729) So what happens if they go down to the only gun store within 20 miles of their home and find out there's a 5 yr licensing wait period or have to jump through a mountain of loops that a simple worker can't afford to?
At the point firearms and/or ammunition are no longer available for the average American who failed to heed the warning signs, I shall be recommending alternatives: Husqvarna pole saw - gas-powered - reach out and touch someone who doesn't have your best interests in mind: http://www.husqvarna.com/c/i/prd/l/h...0-2e0fd031.png Stihl Magnum chainsaw - for close-up and personal business: http://www.stihlusa.com/graphics/chainsaws/MS460.gif Easy Off Oven Cleaner - nice and caustic for those gleeming-eyed rapists (don't count on pepper spray being legal anymore): http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml00/00052.jpg The list goes on. Just remember what I said earlier - one is never hopelessly unarmed when you're with God and Truth, and have the will and courage to survive.

Twisted Avatar | 12-31-2009 06:57 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach 2 Attachment(s) Each enemy is a walking ammo dump. A you need is a one shot pistol. The French Liberator comes to mind

FunnyMoney | 01-01-2010 06:06 PM
Re: Armed Self Protection is Out of Reach The poll results are quite interesting. A minority, but still a relatively large block of voters don't think that manufacture / sales will be incumbered, basically ever. I found that to be an extremely optimistic view, but it sounded very hopefull.

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