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- - Group asks states to track citizens' ammo (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=329786)

phideaux | 12-10-2008 09:29 AM
Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Did the Founding Fathers really need to state "... The right to keep and bear arms and ammunition shall not be infringed..." :thumb.aspx: http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?f...w&pageId=83210 Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Organization claims it is 'saving lives 1 bullet at a time' By Chelsea Schilling Legislation to trace ammunition is pending in several states, and many gun owners are concerned that it is just another attempt by anti-gun groups to violate citizens' Second Amendment rights. An organization known as Ammunition Accountability is pushing to make coding technology mandatory across the nation. Its website claims it is a group of "gun crime victims, industry representatives, law enforcement, public officials, public policy experts, and more" who are "saving lives one bullet at a time." If states pass the legislation, manufacturers will be required to laser etch a serial number into the back of each bullet and the inside of cartridge casings, a patented process developed by Seattle, Wash., resident Russ Ford and his business partners, Steve Mace and John Knickerbocker. According to Seattle Weekly, the men couldn't find an ammunition manufacturer to agree to stamp bullets, so they hired a lobbyist to push for state legislation to require the laser coding. They launched the Ammunition Accountability website and successfully introduced bills in the following 18 states: Alabama, Arizona, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee and Washington. Many of the proposals have died or stalled in committee; however the group is still urging lawmakers across the country to introduce the same kind of legislation in other states. Ammunition Accountability explains its system would require states to establish databases to track coded ammunition for handguns and assault rifles. The databases would be funded by a surcharge of up to five cents per bullet. According to its sample legislation, manufacturers would be forced to code all ammunition sold in the state. Private citizens and retail outlets would be required to dispose of all non-coded ammunition no later than Jan. 1, 2011. Each vendor would record the following information about customers who buy the ammunition: Date, name, driver's license or ID number, date of birth and ammunition identifier. The businesses would maintain records for three years from the date of purchase. "[W]hen a potential criminal purchases a box of 9mm cartridges, the box of ammunition and the bullets' coding numbers would be connected to the purchaser in a statewide database," Ammunition Accountability explains. "When a bullet is found at a crime scene, the code on the bullet can be read with a simple magnifying glass and then be run through a statewide database to determine who purchased the ammunition and where, providing a valuable investigative lead." However, critics claim the system is severely flawed. The National Rifle Association warns encoding ammunition would result in forfeiture of currently owned ammunition, separate registration for every box of ammo, outrageously expensive costs for police and private citizens and wasted taxpayer money that could be spent on traditional police programs. The NRA also suggests private citizens could be required to keep records on anyone who uses or buys their ammunition – even family members and friends. Furthermore, it said lawbreakers could find ways to prevent their bullets from being traced. "Criminals could beat the system," the NRA claims. "A large percentage of criminals' ammunition (and guns) is stolen. Criminals could also collect ammunition cases from shooting ranges, and reload them with molten lead bullets made without serial numbers." Some bloggers suggested criminals could simply modify their own rounds by removing the coding before firing them.

The Argent Dragon | 12-10-2008 09:38 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Founding Fathers didn't see the future of ready-made 'Cartridges'. Most Americans could keep a keg of powder under the house or in the basement / cellar. Lead shot was harmless without the powder.

TomD | 12-10-2008 09:40 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo That sort of thing was big legislatively in a number of states in 2008. When they try to disarm us, I fully expect the main attack to come by the ammunition route. Remember the OSHA attempt to classify ammo as hazardous material making it almost impossible to store or transport?

Abouthadit | 12-10-2008 09:46 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Ahh yes, the smell of mercantilism in the morning. I wish I could gen up a patented process and then through legislation, force everyone on the planet to buy my widgets. No competitors of course. This is the lowest of the low and precisely what is wrong with America. Who was it said that the worst of tyrants are those to who rule with the best interests of their subjects in mind?

smullen | 12-10-2008 09:51 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo It never stops...

Big_Rob | 12-10-2008 10:11 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
An organization known as Ammunition Accountability is pushing to make coding technology mandatory across the nation. Its website claims it is a group of "gun crime victims, industry representatives, law enforcement, public officials, public policy experts, and more" who are "saving lives one bullet at a time."
Oh really? Silly me, I thought they were the lobbying branch of the company who holds the sole patent on ammunition encoding and stands to make a VERY hefty profit on any law that mandates ammo encoding. http://www.ammocoding.com/

momopanda | 12-10-2008 10:23 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Rob (Post 1458647) Oh really? Silly me, I thought they were the lobbying branch of the company who holds the sole patent on ammunition encoding and stands to make a VERY hefty profit on any law that mandates ammo encoding. http://www.ammocoding.com/
Nail on the head Rob. Follow the $

Ghost Recon | 12-10-2008 11:17 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Last I read, this legislation is 'pending' in 18 states. Fortunately, Ohio is not on the list. We have to many pro gun politicians for something like that to pass. Heck, they passed Castle Doctrine here less than a year ago.

graspAU | 12-10-2008 11:21 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Recon (Post 1458766) Last I read, this legislation is 'pending' in 18 states. Fortunately, Ohio is not on the list. We have to many pro gun politicians for something like that to pass. Heck, they passed Castle Doctrine here less than a year ago.
It was defeated in every state it was in earlier this year (TN,MD,KY, and more). Seems that the guy pushing it was the only company with the technology and he would have stood to become a bazillionaire.

Ghost Recon | 12-10-2008 11:22 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by graspAU (Post 1458784) It was defeated in every state it was in earlier this year (TN,MD,KY, and more). Seems that the guy pushing it was the only company with the technology and he would have stood to become a bazillionaire.
That's good news. Do you have a link?

platinumdude | 12-10-2008 11:23 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=325996 Just tying threads together.

graspAU | 12-10-2008 11:29 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo http://mlis.state.md.us/2008rs/billfile/hb0517.htm - Did not make it out of judiciary commitee in MD. The following bills were defeated thanks to the hard work of NRA members across Maryland: House Bill 517, would have required ammunition manufacturers to serialize all handgun ammunition in the state while forcing gun owners to dispose of all non-serialized ammo. HB 517 would have also created an ammunition database operated by State Police and funded by a five-cent tax on each round of ammunition. from: http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=3796

Twisted Avatar | 12-10-2008 11:36 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by smullen (Post 1458611) It never stops...
Ever....... T

Bx3 | 12-10-2008 11:53 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo A bazillion dollars won't protect their sorry, traitorous arses if this ever gets approved. There will be unintended consequences for anyone who dismantels the 2A.:36_1_28:

Toto | 12-10-2008 12:17 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo And remember. Terrorist status for anyone making their own ammo in high quantities.

IGrok | 12-10-2008 12:26 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo How about finding those guys behind this and "convincing" them of the errors of their ways. As said here before the gay community gets more results from their protests than the gun community. Gun people have to outnumber the gays 1000 to one. Heck there is probably alot of gay gun owners! We have got to stop letting these people get away with this.

Worldmariner | 12-10-2008 12:52 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by phideaux (Post 1458562) Did the Founding Fathers really need to state "... The right to keep and bear arms and ammunition shall not be infringed..." .
Well, Apparently so... We have here a socialist puke that is trying to push the serialized ammunition agenda for his own personal profit. Unfortunately, now that we have a 2nd amendment hating Dem congress and president, this legislation may very well pass! ! ! Well, the only way to combat this Socialist agenda and legislation is through politics. We need more people to write to their Member of Congress (that means your elected Representative to the House of Representatives. Their job is to listen to the citizenry) and thier Senator. By "more people" I mean **YOU**, the reader. "You" need to register to vote, "You" need to write to your elected officials, "You" need to join pro-second amendment organizations, like the GOA and the NRA. "You" need to go to local government meetings and voice your opinions. Here are the links: www.Congress.org Member of Congress to the House of Representatives: https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml Your Senator: http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/sen...ers/states.htm Your governor: http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Governors.shtml National Rifle Association: www.nra.org Gun Owners of America: www.gunowners.org Many many forum posters seem to be the paranoid wall flower "I don't want my name on a list! I am not even registered to vote!" types... They wring their hands about what is happening, but they want SOMEONE ELSE to do the dirty work and take a chance, speak up, write the letters, cast the votes, and yet sit in the shadows and reap the rewards. If you are one of these types, (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!) you need to remember this: If you have ever filled out a Form 4473, trust me, you are in a database. If you are a member of GOA or the NRA, trust me, you are in a database. If you have ever registered to vote, trust me, you are in a database. If you have a driver's license, trust me, you are in a database. If you use your SSN to earn income, trust me, you are in a database. If you ever used your credit card to buy gun parts or ammo, you are in a database. If you were ever in the military... well you get the idea... keyed in on your name and DOB. Cross referenced with your SSN. With the (undeclared and in my opinion unconstitutional) Bush "war" on terror, the Department of Homeland Security and Congress have teamed up and are finishing up the process of making all the local, state, and Federal databases cross-searchable and accessible by ANY agency, NO WARRENT, NO JUDGE, required. If you are too cowardly to stand up and be counted, to make your voice heard, what will you do with your gun when tyranny arrives? I mean, you already know that you are a coward, so what will you do? Take your super secret gun and go shoot someone in a blue helmet or a black Hummer? I think not. We know what you will do. YOU know what you will do. You will whisper about the Good Ol Days and hope that "someone else" does something, while you let your super secret gun rust in it's super secret hiding place, and be angry and post angry messages on forums about how somebody "should have done something". (Pardon me a moment whilst I vomit) That "someone" is **YOU**. GET OFF YOUR ASS and start DOING something about it, and posting messages on forums is NOT action! It is talk. Being a member on a website like www.righttokeepandbeararms.com is nice, and well meaning, and a fantastic resource for ideas, BUT it is not TRUE ACTION; it is feel good action. Joining a website WILL NOT cause change. Writing letters and being politically active is what causes change. Better idea: Buy as many firearms as you want. Give them as gifts! Register as many SBR's and suppressors as you can, join EVERY pro gun lobby group you can, and learn how to start grass roots legislation. Urge your friends to get CCW permits and to buy guns, including assault rifles. Take them shooting and let them burn through a box of your ammo. Turn them on to firearms. Get them re-acquainted with personal responsibility. Get them going in the right direction. Turn America BACK INTO a gun culture and freedom culture and personal responsibility culture. THAT is how to beat DHS, Napolitano, Clinton, an increasing militarized police force (anyone else notice that trend??), other anti-firearms groups, and generally "The Fed". The Feds just follow the rules. If the rules change, so do they. They are like the Borg. They are guys, most... smart, but not brilliant, that are working away at a Federal retirement, doing their job. If the rules change tomorrow and allow everyone to own an unregistered suppressor, believe me, the hour the legislation passes, they will stop activity related to suppressors. Most of those ATF guys (that I know anyway) are not rabidly anti-gun. Most all of them own firearms themselves. They are just following the rules. They do not get cash bonuses for finding illegal guns, such as the IRS agents receive for "recovering" "lost" revenue from recalcitrant tax payers. (Everyone here knows that, right? The IRS guys get a slice of the recovered money as an "on the spot cash award". THAT is why the IRS guys are so rabid. They are motivated by greed) If you are offended by reading this post, then YOU are PROBABLY the guy this post is aimed at! Soapbox Rant Complete. Thanks for reading! -WorldMariner

TomD | 12-10-2008 01:07 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by IGrok (Post 1458917) Heck there is probably a lot of gay gun owners!
How could you know if your gun was gay? That's just weird.

biochemist | 12-10-2008 01:16 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Looks like a lot of people have been making some good investments then. My brother keeps telling me how much ammo prices have been going up and how sorry he was he didn't stock up just a few short years ago, of course this was when you could buy amd-65 kits for 100 bucks a pop. why would you buy a negative return treasury note when you could buy a tractor trailer load of ammo: ) I guess the rules are different in Monopoly money land.

Twisted Avatar | 12-10-2008 01:32 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo 13 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 1458982) How could you know if your gun was gay? That's just weird.
I dunno.......

Worldmariner | 12-10-2008 01:44 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1459021) I dunno.......
Only the Taurus pistol at the bottom is gay. The other guns are bisexual. The Taurus would be gay with or without the pink grips.

Twisted Avatar | 12-10-2008 01:48 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldmariner (Post 1459040) The Taurus would be gay with or without the pink grips.
:111::111::111: T

Worldmariner | 12-10-2008 01:55 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1458848) A bazillion dollars won't protect their sorry, traitorous arses if this ever gets approved. There will be unintended consequences for anyone who dismantels the 2A.:36_1_28:
Oh, now THIS is rich! What "consequences" exactly are you referring to? Are YOU personally going to take your rifle and go hunting Congressmen? I thought not. But you are hoping that "someone else" will? Your post is ludicrous on it's face. Grow up. Touch base with reality. Get out more often and interact with real people in the real world. Read my lengthy post (above) in this thread. I think that YOU are in fact, the guy I am referring to in my post. Personal attack complete; we return you now to our normal programming.

flying | 12-10-2008 02:05 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 1458982) How could you know if your gun was gay? That's just weird.
Anything that shoots under 700fps is gay :rofl:

flying | 12-10-2008 02:07 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 1458583) Founding Fathers didn't see the future of ready-made 'Cartridges'. Most Americans could keep a keg of powder under the house or in the basement / cellar. Lead shot was harmless without the powder.
Oh great a run on powder next? It is already 35-40 bucks a pound here

Bx3 | 12-10-2008 02:44 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldmariner (Post 1459057) Oh, now THIS is rich! What "consequences" exactly are you referring to? Are YOU personally going to take your rifle and go hunting Congressmen? I thought not. But you are hoping that "someone else" will? Your post is ludicrous on it's face. Grow up. Touch base with reality. Get out more often and interact with real people in the real world. Read my lengthy post (above) in this thread. I think that YOU are in fact, the guy I am referring to in my post. Personal attack complete; we return you now to our normal programming.
WTF are you talking about? You make a lot of ASSumptions based off of my non specific statement. Go back to playing with your Tonka Toys and leave the grownups to their conversations.

ohioarmedneutrality | 12-10-2008 02:45 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo What cal. is that Taurus, a .32?

Canadian-guerilla | 12-10-2008 03:52 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo http://ammunitionaccountability.org/default.asp

Twisted Avatar | 12-10-2008 04:00 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 1459299) http://ammunitionaccountability.org/default.asp
Each year there are many homicides from senseless gun violence in America and perhaps more astounding is the fact that 30% of those crimes go unsolved. Many of these cases could be solved if ammunition coding technology were implemented. If you or someone you know is a victim of gun crime, we want to hear your story. Please contact us at ACT(at)ammunitionaccountability.com. I wonder if they would be interested in what Randy Weaver would offer to share??? T

Ares | 12-10-2008 04:05 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Seems my state has just left this in committee where it will probably die. It's been there for 6+ months already.

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californiaprospector | 12-10-2008 04:45 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by phideaux (Post 1458562) Legislation to trace ammunition is pending in several states
They want us to use tracer ammunition? OK, no problem. <div><object width="420" height="339"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xmame" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xmame" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="339" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xmame">Helicopter Tracer Fire</a></b><br /><i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/TheWalkingDude">TheWalkingDude</a></i></div> EDIT: I have no idea why embed code is not working for the video - here is the link - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xma...r-fire_extreme

TTAZZMAN | 12-10-2008 05:04 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Gay gun.......hmmm.... my o/u 12 ga....hetero!!! a single shot break down....Gay??? dont know what the heck a side by side would be???:4_1_72:

Twisted Avatar | 12-10-2008 07:52 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Quote:
Originally Posted by californiaprospector (Post 1459420) They want us to use tracer ammunition? OK, no problem. <div><object width="420" height="339"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xmame" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xmame" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="339" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/xmame">Helicopter Tracer Fire</a></b><br /><i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/TheWalkingDude">TheWalkingDude</a></i></div> EDIT: I have no idea why embed code is not working for the video - here is the link - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xma...r-fire_extreme
You Tube
You Tube

Mike_Templar | 12-10-2008 09:21 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Grasp I am loving your avatar.

gangsta99 | 12-10-2008 10:48 PM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo We need to organize some sort of mass email campaign against these cocks.

mick silver | 12-11-2008 12:06 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo You Tube
You Tube

mick silver | 12-11-2008 12:07 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo You Tube
You Tube

mick silver | 12-11-2008 12:09 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo You Tube
You Tube

mick silver | 12-11-2008 12:13 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo You Tube
You Tube

Twisted Avatar | 12-11-2008 07:41 AM
Re: Group asks states to track citizens' ammo Good stuff Mick......... love me some Hank:ok: T

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