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- - Registering Ammo... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=369480)

voodoo1951 | 04-22-2009 09:57 AM
Registering Ammo... I saw this post somewhere and it really struck a raw nerve...Thought I'd share w/ GIMer's. What happens when manufactures are required by a stroke of bamma's pen to start serializing bullets? Sure it will still be available for fifty cents more PER ROUND. But, lets think this through just a wee little bit. As a cop, I know it doens't have a damn thing to do with reducing crime. The ONLY justification to serializing bullets is to register ammo. Period. So, lets look at the next step. What good is serializing and registering ammo if guys like you and me can cast bullets and reload our own stuff? It wouldn't be. Therefore, the logical next step is to introduce HUGE penalties (can you say similar to class 3 violations?) for POSSESSION of unregistered ammo. Tell me, what good will your huge stashes do while you are in a federal prison for the next 8-10 years because of ONE unregistered round? I'm not happy. I'm not comfortable at all. If you are like me, look how good the chances are that there might be a stray .22 round under the cusion of a couch or under the carpet or seats in your car someplace? Serialized firing pins? Hmmm....anyone ever heard of replacing or repairing a firing pin? Lets see, how about picking up emptys at the range to throw down at the scene of a crime as you pick up your empties? Obviously that won't work. So, why not register brass too or even require that it be turned back in to prove you didn't allow someone else to pick up your brass? Speculative --sure. But, who thought we would go this far toward outright socialisn in only three months? I'm worried brothers and sisters...this could get really nasty.

Mantokir | 04-22-2009 10:08 AM
Re: Registering Ammo... The first thing I thought of when they mentioned all this serializing stuff was someone going to the range and finding a person who isn't paying attention and swiping a few rounds or a magazine from them....

Heimdhal | 04-22-2009 10:11 AM
Re: Registering Ammo... so far it seems the bill to serialize bullets is yet again dead in the water. They've tried for a few years now, but it never seems to get far. To much resistance. We still must keep vigilant and wary, but for this congressional seccession at least, it seems our rights are safe.

chad | 04-22-2009 10:12 AM
Re: Registering Ammo... serializing will for sure happen, it's just a mater of how long long it takes. there is no way they are not going to serialize some part of the gun chain if the technology exists to do it.

Iptuous | 04-22-2009 10:17 AM
Re: Registering Ammo... um.... chad, the guns themselves are already serialized. the ammo is what is being discussed here. the only person that is pushing for the ammo serialization scheme is the fellow that has the patent on the process. and he hasn't even demonstrated the capacity to roll out the technology in manufacturing quantities. no major gun control group is backing the legislation (since it is a dead end), and even though it has come up in legislation in a slew of states, it has died in every single one. this bogeyman is a non starter, i think. still, we gotta keep our eyes peeled.....

chad | 04-22-2009 10:21 AM
Re: Registering Ammo... sorry, i wasn't being clear. i'm lumping ammo as part of the gun chain (i know all my guns are serialized). i think what they need to have happen is some big shooting event like columbine, only where the perps 'get away' and they can't figure out who did it (like the d.c. sniper guys). then, they'll say we need serialized ammo to do forensic tracking and figure out who did it. some kooks in the anti-gun movement will eventually figure out this angle.

voodoo1951 | 04-22-2009 10:28 AM
Re: Registering Ammo... Well folks, I feel a little better after hearing feedback from you guys...I can see where the guy who has a patent on microstamping ammo etc. would push for that to happen. Lets hope the technology to mass produce this "Serialized" stuff is just a pipe dream. At least for now...:thumpdown:thumpdown:thumpdown

Twisted Avatar | 04-22-2009 11:24 AM
Re: Registering Ammo... I dont care........ cause I am not turning in or destroying what I own if some "authority figure" decided to deem it illegal. But I will be more than happy to use if need be. These folks are straight crazy.....crazy.

Mantokir | 04-22-2009 11:57 AM
Re: Registering Ammo... Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo1951 (Post 1689015) Well folks, I feel a little better after hearing feedback from you guys...I can see where the guy who has a patent on microstamping ammo etc. would push for that to happen. Lets hope the technology to mass produce this "Serialized" stuff is just a pipe dream. At least for now...:thumpdown:thumpdown:thumpdown
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6810816.html Patented in 04 Quote:
Carl Rennard, a consultant from Lincoln, R.I., who owns several coding patents, said the ammunition industry "is really uninformed about the technology available, how unobtrusive it would be to the product line. They're just being afraid."
Already pushing for it... this is on page 3... http://articles.latimes.com/2005/jul...%7Cme-bullets3

voodoo1951 | 04-22-2009 02:14 PM
Re: Registering Ammo... Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1689098) I dont care........ cause I am not turning or destroying what I owe if it is somehow deemed illegal. But I will be more than happy to use if need be. These folks are straight crazy.....crazy.
Simmer Down Now TA...Don't want ya' ta have an aneurysm...I know how passionate you can get over these issues...VD51:banghead::banghead::banghead:

renegade_01 | 04-22-2009 03:31 PM
Re: Registering Ammo... TRUST ME. ITS GOING TO GET NASTY. I feel sorry for all the fags who work for the other side... If you are one of these spineless cowards I suggest you take a real long hard look in the mirror and decide if you want to be on the winning side of this thing... All the SWAT guys.... All the BATFaggots.... All the FBI and FEMA heads.... Your ass will be ours when you decide you want to pull the plug on our constitutional and god given rights to self defense. We (1% of populace or 1,000,000 stronghold) will stomp your brains out. DO IT. I DARE YOU.

Twisted Avatar | 04-22-2009 04:07 PM
Re: Registering Ammo... 4 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by renegade_01 (Post 1689427) TRUST ME. ITS GOING TO GET NASTY. I feel sorry for all the fags who work for the other side... If you are one of these spineless cowards I suggest you take a real long hard look in the mirror and decide if you want to be on the winning side of this thing... All the SWAT guys.... All the BATFaggots.... All the FBI and FEMA heads.... Your ass will be ours when you decide you want to pull the plug on our constitutional and god given rights to self defense. We (1% of populace or 1,000,000 stronghold) will stomp your brains out. DO IT. I DARE YOU.
Gotta put some pics to that!!!!

renegade_01 | 04-22-2009 04:24 PM
Re: Registering Ammo... Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1689467) Gotta put some pics to that!!!!
THAT'S HOW IM GOING TO LOOK AT THE GYM TONIGHT AFTER I WATCH CNN FOR 10 MINUTES.

Silver001 | 04-22-2009 10:07 PM
Re: Registering Ammo... InterArms Treaty take a look at # VI micro stamping all Obama has to do is enforce the treaty. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://gunowners.org/fs0901.htm GOA's CIFTA Treaty Analysis Obama Proposes Signing Treaty To Ban Reloading -- Even BB guns could be on the chopping block Gun Owners of America Fact Sheet 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 When President Obama went to Mexico in April, he proposed that the United States sign the Inter-American Convention Against Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, and Other Related Materials. Despite the fact that it purportedly deals with “illicit manufacturing and trafficking,” GOA is convinced that this convention defines these terms much more broadly and potentially presents serious dangers to Americans lawfully exercising their Second Amendment rights. PURPOSES AND DEFINITIONS Although the word “illicit” is used extensively in order to make the convention sound less anti-gun than it actually is, we need to look very carefully at the purposes and definitions to see whether it is, in fact, limited in scope to persons illegally moving guns across borders in order to arm violent criminal cartels: The seventh precatory clause “STRESS[ES] the need, in peace processes and post-conflict situations, to achieve effective control of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials in order to prevent their entry into the illicit market;” -- thereby endorsing comprehensive gun and ammunition control, in violation of McClure-Volkmer (which deregulated ammunition) and of the Second Amendment to the Constitution. Furthermore, the tenth precatory clause supports a “know-your-customer policy for dealers [in firearms]” -- something which would rapidly lead to an abolition of firearms in a country as large and transient as the United States. And the twelfth precatory clause acknowledges the rights of parties to enact their own gun laws, but only with respect to aspects of a “wholly domestic character.” We have seen, as recently as the April 15 New York Times, how battles with the Mexican drug cartels have been fanned into an issue which is being used to justify the passage of every major gun control initiative in modern American history. We see how these “slippery slope” findings are actually implemented when we look at the definitions: “Illicit manufacturing” of firearms is defined as “assembly of firearms [or] ammunition... without a license...” Hence, reloading ammunition -- or putting together a lawful firearm from a kit -- is clearly “illicit manufacturing.” Modifying a firearm in any way would surely be “illicit manufacturing.” And, while it would be a stretch, assembling a firearm after cleaning it could, in any plain reading of the words, come within the screwy definition of “illicit manufacturing.” “Firearm” has a similarly questionable definition. Borrowing from the open-ended definitions in federal law which have continue to vex us (and people like Olofson in Wisconsin), any barreled weapon “which... may be readily converted to expel a bullet” would be a firearm. Even worse, “any other weapon” (a term which is not defined) is a “firearm.” This surely includes BB guns -- and who knows what else. “Cartridge cases” and “projectiles” are defined as “ammunition.” SUBSTANTIVE PROVISIONS In Article IV, parties commit to adopting “necessary legislative or other measures” to criminalize illicit manufacturing and trafficking in firearms. Remember that “illicit manufacturing” includes reloading and modifying or assembling any firearm in any way. And, while treaties should not trump the Bill of Rights (in contrast to what the Supreme Court held in Missouri v. Holland), they do have the force of statute -- which would mean that the Obama administration could promulgate regulations on the basis of this treaty which would ban any modification or machining of any firearm in any manner whatsoever except by license of the government. Article IV goes on to state that the criminalized acts should include “association or conspiracy” in connection with “said offenses” -- which is arguably a term broad enough to allow, by regulation, the criminalization of entire pro-gun organizations or gun clubs, based on the facilities which they provide their membership. Article V requires each party to “adopt such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offenses it has established in accordance with this Convention” under a variety of circumstances. We know that Mexico is blaming U.S. gun dealers for the fact that its streets are flowing with blood. And we know it is possible for it to define offenses “committed in its territory” in a very broad way. And we know that we have an extradition obligation under Article XIX of the convention. And we also know that other countries such as Spain have tried to use their treaty powers to put American officials on trial. Article VI requires “appropriate markings” on firearms. And, it is not inconceivable that this provision could be used to require microstamping of firearms and/or ammunition -- a requirement which is clearly intended to impose specifications which are not technologically possible or which are possible only at a prohibitively expensive cost. Article VII requires confiscation and forfeiture of illicit firearms. Articles VIII, IX, and X would increase the role of government, in ways which cannot be foreseen, in supervising the import and export of firearms and ammunition. Article XI requires the maintenance of any records, for a “reasonable time,” that the government determines to be necessary to trace firearms. This provision would almost certainly repeal portions of McClure-Volkmer and could arguably be used to require a national registry or database. Article XIII authorizes the “exchange of information” with respect to FFL’s -- presumably providing information on Americans to the corrupt Mexican police which are the source of many, if not most, of the illicit firearms. Finally, under Article XXIX, if Mexico demands the extradition of a lawful American gun dealer, the U.S. would be required to resolve the dispute through “other means of peaceful settlement.” Does anyone want to risk sweltering in a Mexican jail at the mercy of the Obama administration? This fact sheet was prepared by Mike Hammond, GOA’s legislative counsel. http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...d.php?t=369323

Ares | 04-22-2009 11:21 PM
Re: Registering Ammo... Quote:
The seventh precatory clause “STRESS[ES] the need, in peace processes and post-conflict situations, to achieve effective control of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials in order to prevent their entry into the illicit market;”
Does that include the U.S. government selling to drug lords, and warlords? Probably not, just applies to us "little people."

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