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- - Is this a bad method of storage? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=449153)

still afloat | 02-18-2010 12:01 AM
Is this a bad method of storage? Ok , may leave a few scratching their head asking why . The gun in reference is a S&W 6906 The problem/ question starts with my having use of only 1 arm. Then , my not feeling comfortable leaving a round chambered . Which leaves me working the slide to load first round using only my right hand .Not a big problem but not a fast action on my part . Slow and awkward but doable . So would there be a problem such as stress on the springs .etc to leave the slide locked back with the magazine not fully inserted .Then when needed just bump the magazine in and release the slide . Yes a revolver would probably be a better choice , but with one hand accuracy with a double action revolver is nowhere as good as with the 6906 , pulling the trigger throws me off target more than I like . 15 yards with the 6906 3 inch groups ,with a revolver I'm lucky to keep a 6 inch group . Any suggestions are appreciated.

SilverCity | 02-18-2010 12:53 AM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Leave it loaded with one in the chamber, hammer down, and the safety on. It can stay in that condition probably for years, and still be ready to bring into action quickly.

PhysicalAsset | 02-18-2010 01:52 AM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? I refuse to carry /out one in the chamber. Finger off until ready to discharge and you are all set. The seconds that it takes to rack a slide could cost you your life.

wildcard | 02-18-2010 01:56 AM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Watch this vid and imagine he didn't have one chambered. You Tube
You Tube

nickelless | 02-18-2010 02:18 AM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Wow. Too bad there's no sound.

Bx3 | 02-18-2010 02:39 AM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? 1 Attachment(s) Learn to carry with a round in the chamber. You have a manual safety on that model which should give you some comfort over other manufacturers/models. If you absolutely do not feel comfortable with a round in the chamber I would suggest a different model that you can put flat Meprolight type sights on (your model will not accept them). These flat faced type of rear sights will allow you to hook them on a belt/front pocket to load a round in the chamber. This is a common and effective technique that is practiced in anticipation of having an injured arm (something you should all practice with snap caps of course). The sights shown below are for the S&W M&P. I would still recommend carrying with a chambered round. Bx3

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 02-18-2010 09:30 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? I'm right there with the OP: I am still not comfortable carrying with one in the pipe, and many of my models have no physical saftey. I know I am supposed to be the final saftey, but it's just such a weird feeling. I don't know how to get over it. How do I get over the paranoia that I'm going to blow my leg off?

still afloat | 02-18-2010 09:36 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? I have no problem with one chambered when carrying , I am in full control then .My hesitation is at home , this is for lack of a better term a house gun . One that is close at hand at most any time at home. I've used the rear site to work the slide before , but always wondered if it could cause the site to move.

hoarder | 02-18-2010 09:44 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNocturnalEgyptian (Post 2187322) I'm right there with the OP: I am still not comfortable carrying with one in the pipe, and many of my models have no physical saftey. I know I am supposed to be the final saftey, but it's just such a weird feeling. I don't know how to get over it. How do I get over the paranoia that I'm going to blow my leg off?
I'm that way about 1911's cocked and locked so I don't use them. Watch that video several times and one paranoia will nullify the other. Training and the 4 rules. I always concentrate on straight index finger.

Bx3 | 02-18-2010 10:42 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by still afloat (Post 2187337) .My hesitation is at home , this is for lack of a better term a house gun . One that is close at hand at most any time at home.
If you have small children, the mini vaults are great. As for the Egyptian, what Hoarder said. Also, practice leads to proficiency and proficiency leads to confidence. Bx3 http://www.gunvault.com/mini-mini-deluxe.html

still afloat | 02-18-2010 11:17 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? I like the ideal of the mini vault , can it be bolted to a shelf or wall from the inside or would I have to drill it myself . It might slow down someone taking it , but mostly just thinking of keeping it more stable , not moving when trying to access the content if in hurry .

smullen | 02-18-2010 11:38 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 2185448) Watch this vid and imagine he didn't have one chambered. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AA_dgRdDhk
While I'm not getting on this guy (the clerk) or saying he was wrong, but from what I saw it looks like he stands a chance of getting in some trouble... The other guy did not fire and was retreating... He shot the dirtbag in the back... Again, not saying he was wrong, but I see where a stupid jurry or antigunner judge could fiund him guilty...

Usury | 02-19-2010 01:44 AM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNocturnalEgyptian (Post 2187322) I'm right there with the OP: I am still not comfortable carrying with one in the pipe, and many of my models have no physical saftey. I know I am supposed to be the final saftey, but it's just such a weird feeling. I don't know how to get over it. How do I get over the paranoia that I'm going to blow my leg off?
A friend of mine is considering buying a gun and training, becoming licensed to carry it. He seemed a little alarmed that I carry with a round chambered. When he asked me if I was worried that it might go off, I replied "Are you worried your car brakes might not work next time you press the pedal? Anything mechanical can fail, but if you take the time to properly inspect, maintain and safely use it you most likely will never have a problem".

Usury | 02-19-2010 01:47 AM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Quote:
Originally Posted by smullen (Post 2187576) While I'm not getting on this guy (the clerk) or saying he was wrong, but from what I saw it looks like he stands a chance of getting in some trouble... The other guy did not fire and was retreating... He shot the dirtbag in the back... Again, not saying he was wrong, but I see where a stupid jurry or antigunner judge could fiund him guilty...
I'll use the same "clean hands" argument here that I did in another thread. Legally there's no issue, but it could happen. Once my son asked if I would go to jail if I had to shoot someone that tried to hurt us. I replied that it was possible because our justice system is not perfect, but even if that's the case, we would all still be alive.

Bx3 | 02-19-2010 02:48 AM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Quote:
Originally Posted by still afloat (Post 2187539) I like the ideal of the mini vault , can it be bolted to a shelf or wall from the inside or would I have to drill it myself . It might slow down someone taking it , but mostly just thinking of keeping it more stable , not moving when trying to access the content if in hurry .
It is pre drilled and it comes with all of the hardware to mount it from the inside. Depending on the shelf/furniture you use, one would have to take a sledgehammer to get it out. I have a couple strategically placed throughout the house (although they are now empty since I sold all of my guns last year:wink:). Oh yea, you can set your own code so it can be very quick to access. Bx3

wallew | 02-19-2010 01:00 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? From the time the BG presents weapon (:22 seconds in) until the guy presents his weapon and starts firing (:31/:32 seconds in) is nine seconds - plenty of time to rack your weapon. If you slow motion the video, it almost LOOKS like the guy is doing a concealed rack of his weapon just before he presents it. I'm PARTICULARLY IMPRESSED with the large lady herding the customer and her kid BEHIND her and the desk there for protection from the BG. Of course, by this time BG had sprouted three forty cal holes and was bleeding out on the sidewalk right in front of his intended hit... SUX TO BE HIM. And regarding the shoot? IT'S COMPLETELY RIGHTEOUS. While the clerk did shoot the guy as he was fleeing THE REASON HE WAS FLEEING WAS HE WAS BEING SHOT AT. The reason he was being shot at was BECAUSE HE PRESENTED A WEAPON AND DEMANDED MONEY. That's ARMED robbery. IF the guy lives, he'll do thee to five for armed robbery. The guy who did the shooting will no doubt get some kind of award for protecting his co-worker and two customers.

hoarder | 02-19-2010 01:14 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 2188363) From the time the BG presents weapon (:22 seconds in) until the guy presents his weapon and starts firing (:31/:32 seconds in) is nine seconds - plenty of time to rack your weapon. If you slow motion the video, it almost LOOKS like the guy is doing a concealed rack of his weapon just before he presents it..
What about the sound of the gun being racked?? That would be certain to draw fire. If I was in that situation and racking a slide was the only chance to fight back I doubt I would have taken it.

Mantokir | 02-19-2010 03:10 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? IMO... You Tube
You Tube

Bx3 | 02-19-2010 04:05 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? I just watched the video of the CCW clerk. A couple of observations of mine are that the clerk seemed to have good situational awareness from the very beginning. While he did shoot the perp as he was trying to exit, it was reported that the perp got off at least two rounds (probably during the exit attempt). If the perp was firing his weapon even while trying to un ass the place, he still represented a lethal threat which makes this a good shoot in my book. The most impressive thing to me however other than the clerks SA and accuracy was that he maintained a RED condition long after the perp fled. This is imperative to not let your guard down for one second after an altercation as you do not know if the perp is still a threat or whether he is alone or has backup/friends. Kudos to the clerk for being "switched on", having excellent combat accuracy and lastly vigilance even after the confrontation seemed to be over. Up close and personal is NO time to be needing to chamber a round in what amounts to an empty gun. Bx3 :23_28_100s:

Heimdhal | 02-19-2010 05:14 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Id like to make a suggestion for those concerned with carrying with a round chambered. Get some snap caps and chamber one. Carry it around like that and pay attention through out the day. As long as you are following the 4 rules and not being "dumb" with the gun, there shouldnt be a problem. It may help put your mind at ease when you realize that your gun is cocked and loaded and has gone the whole day without going off. A gun is a tool and can only do what you tell it to. ANd if for some reason somwhere in the universe it does, well then its only a snap cap and youll know thats not the gun to carry, or not to do whatever you did to make it go off. This is why a good holster that covers the trigger is important. I made a custom hybrid for mine from leather and kydex. It holds the gun securley IWB and covers the trigger of my sa/da .45. It takes a lot of intentional force to pull that DA trigger back on my gun, but I would be just as confidant if it were a SA only (or DA only with a light trigger like a glock) because I know that the trigger area is covered and protected and nothing is getting in there till I want it too. Alway practice drawing, to train your hand to natrual draw the gun while keeping the trigger guard clear till you want your finger to go in there. Train your muscles to draw the gun straight up and out and then straigh back and down when you reholster. I wont lie, I still get a little paranoid when I reholster and throw the safter on from time to time while doing it, then take the saftey off when its in the holster, but this is a personal thing and not common. Theres been countless incidents where people have carried unchambered, or with the saftey off, but didnt practice enough and either forgot their saftey was on when the SHTF or they didnt have enough time to wrack it. Remember, an unloaded gun is jsut a really expensive hammer and sucks as a boomerang. Heres two of the holsters I made. This is for my main carry, a Bersa Thunder .45 UC http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...l/100_2115.jpg Ive actualy changed the clips since this picture, but you can see the outline of the trigger in the kydex, how it is 100% covered and encased by the kydex. Nothings getting in there to make it go off accidently unless I get sloppy with my finger, but thats why i practice the draw (from concealed) constantly. And this was for a friends Bersa Thunder .380 http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m...k/100_2268.jpg

.41Dave | 02-19-2010 05:47 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? The S&W 6906 is a well designed pistol and is as safe with a round in the chamber as a loaded revolver. It will not fire inadvertently even if dropped on the hammer. That said, if you are still concerned, then I strongly recommend you use a revolver even if you are not as accurate with it. Relying on a weapon in which you have less than full confidence is a recipe for disaster.

smullen | 02-19-2010 06:28 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 2188363) And regarding the shoot? IT'S COMPLETELY RIGHTEOUS. While the clerk did shoot the guy as he was fleeing THE REASON HE WAS FLEEING WAS HE WAS BEING SHOT AT. The reason he was being shot at was BECAUSE HE PRESENTED A WEAPON AND DEMANDED MONEY. That's ARMED robbery. IF the guy lives, he'll do thee to five for armed robbery. The guy who did the shooting will no doubt get some kind of award for protecting his co-worker and two customers.
Hey I've got no problems with the Clerk layin the B.G. out, I just won't be supprised if the messed up legal system brings changes against him and the punk ass Judge or Jurry find him guilty of something... Myself, I'd rather see the B.G. get a Tombstone and the Clerk get some sort of award...

tanner12oz | 02-19-2010 07:37 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? i carry chambered all the time...in case of an emergency you are dealing with fractions of seconds between life and death. I GUARANTEE you the bad guy was a round chambered. just be careful holstering and unholstering....

CQC McDuck | 02-19-2010 07:50 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? I think the clerk would have gone to jail if this had happened in my state. If I remember right you have to stop shooting once the perp turns his back and attempts to flee, even if he keeps shooting at you. Unsporting defensive kill perhaps? LOL

johndoh | 02-19-2010 08:09 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? I was taught that a self defense gun without a round in the chamber is an expensive ammo storage device. I'd recommend working with a good firearms trainer to find a condition of carry/storage that you're comfortable with and then practicing. Training the same movements a few hundred times, will burn it into muscle memory. A few thousand times, it will become subconscious. With adrenaline pumping, what you described just doesn't sound reliable.

SilverCity | 02-19-2010 08:33 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? As far as the video, I can't tell who shot first. Did the clerk escalate the situation and thereby endanger those innocent bystanders? That baby was awfully close to the line of fire. I may have reacted differently.

Bx3 | 02-19-2010 08:48 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? 1 Attachment(s) Very nice holster Heimdhal. Even better when you can make a quality product yourself. Reminds me of the Super Tuck model from Cross Breed Holsters.:ok:Bx3

CyberGold | 02-19-2010 09:05 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? The 'safety' on the S&W 3rd generation pistols (6906, 5906, 3913, 4006 etc) is a drop hammer type that blocks the hammer from hitting the firing pin. This is completely safe to have the chamber loaded and the 'safety' engaged. You can also use the safety when the hammer is cocked and allow it to 'drop' on a live round and it will block the firing pin when the hammer falls. That is why it is actually called a decocking lever instead of a safety. I keep all my S&W 3rd gen pistols loaded and safety on (decocker down). It takes a simple flick of the lever to have the gun ready to shoot. I also practice double action shooting to where I actually prefer it now and even purchased an M&P and XD which use that style of firing. Also your gun probably has the magazine trigger disconnect, which means that if there is a round in the chamber but the magazine isn't fully seated, then the trigger is disconnected and the gun can't be fired. This is a feature to remember if you are struggling with someone over your gun, if you can press the mag release and let the magazine eject even a little bit, the gun won't fire until the mag is locked home. This can also be used as a safety technique, leaving the gun loaded with the safety engaged and the mag not fully seated.

wildcard | 02-19-2010 09:14 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? A man sticks a gun in your face, you have the choice of letting him decide who lives and dies or you make your own choice. In the vid the clerk hit the BG all 3 shots...he fell at the door. He did not die, he was sentenced to 6 (SIX) years for armed robbery. The clerk lost his job. He (perp) could have just as easily shot them all and taken the video tape. He (clerk) drew and fired. He did not draw and rack. He used the other clerk to conceal his draw. He was an NRA firearms instructor. And I'd rather have ringing ears and no holes than to leave the decision to the dirtbag. This video is a few years old now and convinced me of the need to carry one ready in the chamber. Make your own choices. *they often shoot as they are running away with the gun over their shoulder or turned under by their hip. They could go out and find cover and return fire. Again, you've got choices. I know what mine would be. **side note: The clerk was using a .40 cal and 2 of the 3 rounds penetrated all the way through and out the glass and on into the night. The 3rd round hit the perp in the shoulder bone/socket area and lodged.

wildcard | 02-19-2010 09:20 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? In his own words: Quote:
My Justified shooting expieriance. I put this in the Home defense section because this seemed like the most appropriate section. I was involved in a shooting at my work at a Super 8 motel off brice rd in Columbus Oh. This happend on the sixth of last month. I didn't want to post anything untill things had cooled down and I got a feel for what the law enforcement officals thought. I am pleased to say that the Columbus Police department, were very professional about the whole situation, and even when they had to do there usual routine, never made me feel like a criminal, and they kept me well hidden from the media. I was expecting the worst from the police from all the negative things I've heard people say happen to them after a shooting, so I was very relieved. The officers that I was with did their best to make sure that I was ok, and made me as comfortable as they could. Anyway, I'd like to address some of the things that I learned from this confrontation, and also re-address some things that most of us in the ccw world already know. A confrontation will be extremely quick and extremely violent: I teach this in my concealed carry class, but never really thought about it. From the time that the Robber walked in and pulled his gun, to the point where he was lying on the pavement was 13 seconds. The shooting portion from when my gun cleared the holster to him on the ground was under 3 seconds (I got these times from the time recorder on the security camera video) You must remain alert, ALWAYS: I was unprepared for this, I must admit. When he walked into the lobby, I tottaly didn't even notice him. I was busy checking a guest in on my computer that I didn't even look up. It wasn't untill the other desk clerk started acting frantic, and the kid came behind the counter that I looked up and saw him wearing a mask and a gun in his hands. Holster options: I now know that I don't want any type of retention strap on my firearm. I had one during this incident and realise had I not had the other desk clerk there to conceal my actions of drawing, I don't think I would have been quick enough. When I practice drawing, I always practice undoing the strap at the same time to make it quick, but you MAY loose your fine motor skills, which makes it just a little more difficult, especially for me because I was using a Glock 27, which is a little difficult to get a grip on to begin with, because I can't use my back fingers on it because it is so small. I was using a cheapie nylon, but will now be upgrading to a Galco retention style. In my opinion, just pay the money to get a good holster. Also, I know for sure that an ankle rig would have been almost useless. I think they are good for just BUGs. Point shooting: As I stated before, everything happend so fast. I didn't use the sights. I used muscle memmory and point shooting. I believe it is imperitive to get yourself trained to shoot quickly(double and triple tap drills)and to get your mucles used to your relative point of aim. More than likely you will never use your sights. It will all be point shooting. Never say anything: You will probably want to talk about this expieriance, especially with the police. DON'T DO IT!! Anything you have to say right after the shooting you will have to say the next day. No matter how cool calm and collected you think you will be or feel, you still need to calm down. I didn't realise I was wound so tight, untill I loosened up. Anything you have to say, can come through a lawyer. I gave no statement that night, and looked for a lawyer the next day just in case. I had other witnesses who gave statements, so I never even needed to give one, and haven't yet. Why bother if it's not needed. It could only hurt you to give a statement that night, waiting to give a statement through a lawyer never hurt anybody. These are just some things I thought I should share. I may post a few more things later, but for right now this is it. If you would like to read a little more about the shooting, you can yahoo search it. Type in "shooting at 2055 brice rd" or you can look it up on the civialian self defense blog. Thanks, and stay safe, Ramsey. http://www.packing.org/community/gen...chatitem_18999
*more from clerk: Quote:
Thanks for all the responses. My roomate is excist and reflect. I’d like to start out saying that it looks as though I am shooting close to the baby, but I am not. The camera angle makes it look as though the little girl is right there, but is a good deal away. Even if the mother didn’t grab the baby, the shots wouldn’t have come close I don’t think, but if the baby was in the way, I just wouldn’t have pulled the trigger. The second thing I’d like to say is that I didn’t get up in the morning saying I would sure love to pop someone today. The robber chose the time and the place, I didn’t ask for it. There are two types of people in this world, those who will take action and those that won’t. I assessed the risk as fast as I could at that exact moment. A .45 long colt looks very menacing when your on the buisness end of it. I have been tought to meet force with force, and to open up quick and violently. Things may have played out differntly had my coworker not have been there. Maybe I would have tried to draw down, maybe I wouldn’t have, or maybe I would have looked for another oppritunity to draw. I had to get behind her so he couldn’t see what was going on. I brought my gun up on to target and was in the middle of yelling for him to drop the weapon when he jumped back and pullled the gun up. I ducked out of the way for a moment and popped back up firing when my weapon was on target. As far as using the front sights, I did, using my flash sight picture. Now with shooting in the back, yes, he got nailed in the back, but the time from when my gun clears my holster to when he’s laying on the ground is roughly 2.9 seconds. That doesn’t give you a whole lot of time to think, but even so, if he didn’t want to get shot, he should have put the weapon down. You don’t make a sudden movement, especially with a gun in your hand in that type of situation. I feel confident in my skills as I shoot almost every weekend, I hold a CCW, and am also an NRA instructor for home firearm safety, basic pistol, and personal protection. No one knows how they are going to respond to a situation when they get thrust into it. I felt very threatend and did what I have been tought to do. Now as far as people bieng in the way and all that, I doubt you will ever get perfect conditions. You respond to situations as they come and make adjustments accordingly. If some crazy asshole opens fire in a mall, some of you with CCW may want to run, which is fine, it’s a natural reaction and perfectly normal. I myself along with a few other would probably decide to take cover and stop the threat. I believe it is my job while armed to not only protect myself, but others that may be in harms way and that I believe I am in a position to help. Some of you may think that’s the wrong way to think, which is also ok, but to each his own. I have to make my decisions as you may have to make yours, and nobody gets to make that decision for you. By the way, the woman in the video was not pissed, actually just the opposite. She thanked me a whole lot, and so did my co worker. She also wrote me a long letter expressing her gratitude, and is now a firearm owner waiting to get a ccw. I was never charged with anything. The police, aswell as the prosecutors viewed this in a very positive light, especially with all the witness statements in my favor. The police tend to look at things more favorably when the person who gets hurt is a multiple felon in the middle of commiting a few more felonys.

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Heimdhal | 02-19-2010 10:17 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 2189267) Very nice holster Heimdhal. Even better when you can make a quality product yourself. Reminds me of the Super Tuck model from Cross Breed Holsters.:ok:Bx3
Thanks for the compliment! They were my first :ok: I like the cross breed type IWB's but I cant afford the $50-$75+ price tag, and its hard finding one for my bersa without paying extra. I made mine for under 15$ and it works wonderfully. The second one, with the bersa .380 is a super tuck. I made it for a friend that works for our family business and has to wear a tucked in polo at the very least every day. The tucked in shirt does delay a concealed draw a bit, in my experiences. I rarley, if ever, tuck my shirt in, so the first holster is jsut a regular old IWB. I had the darndest time with them for the first few months though and just couldnt figure out why they didnt feel "right" I chaged the clips, the angle, all sorts of stuff until one day I said "Hey, idiot...get a wider belt!" and that has mad all the difference!

Bx3 | 02-19-2010 10:28 PM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? The good CCW belt is like a good set of tires on a performance car. Without them, you have poor performance no matter how good the car. Bx3

tanner12oz | 02-22-2010 01:04 AM
Re: Is this a bad method of storage? Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 2189445) The good CCW belt is like a good set of tires on a performance car. Without them, you have poor performance no matter how good the car. Bx3
just a note on this so you avoid the mistake i made... make sure the belt you are buying actually fits your pants. i got a 1.75 belt not thinking and it didnt fit ANY of my clothes...so make sure everything fits together.

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