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- - Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=373201)

Pat | 05-06-2009 11:02 PM
Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck Winchesters .410 2005 loads, inc 000 buck By Marshall Williams. ...there is a three inch 000 buck shot load containing five of the big .36 caliber shot. Advertised velocity is 1100 fps as well. A 000 buckshot is .360 inches in diameter and weighs 70 grains. Thus, this load weighs slightly more than a 3/4 oz. shot load. (Incidentally, the 12 gauge 000 load contains only 8 of the big buckshot.) Each of the five pellets will have energy roughly comparable to a .380/9mm K pistol bullet at the same distance. I went to the buckshot file of Ed Lowry�s outstanding Shotshell Ballistics Program. According to my calculations the 25 yard velocity of the three inch shell is 967 fps giving each pellet 142 ft. lbs. of energy. The combined total energy delivered for five pellets would be 711 ft. lbs. Either would be suitable for deer inside 25 yards and would be formidable for self defense at close range. http://www.fourten.org.uk/mwbuck.html

Rebel Yarr | 05-06-2009 11:12 PM
Re: Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck Hell yeah, aint nothin wrong with a 410. IfI ever run intoa saiga 410 for a couple hundy again - I would nab it. Kickin myself for not grabbin one a 200.

GoldWampum | 05-06-2009 11:22 PM
Re: Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck Thanks for this. I've talked in the past about the effectiveness for close range defense with a relatively light gun. Glad to see you found some numbers. Been around 410's all my life. People think they are toys, but they can be effective. Easily maneuverable with a shorter barrel as well.

SLV>GLD | 05-06-2009 11:32 PM
Re: Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldWampum (Post 1711553) Thanks for this. I've talked in the past about the effectiveness for close range defense with a relatively light gun. Glad to see you found some numbers. Been around 410's all my life. People think they are toys, but they can be effective. Easily maneuverable with a shorter barrel as well.
The big question is; will you, please, stand in front of a .410 shottie to prove your point? Crickets all around. Personally, I'll load a 12ga but I ain't standing in front of a .410 neither.

Lars Ragnarsson | 05-07-2009 03:26 AM
Re: Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck http://www.taurususa.com/images/imag...-3SSMAG_r1.jpg MODEL 4510 .45/.410 (3" CHAMBER) MATTE STAINLESS REVOLVER

teedub31 | 05-07-2009 08:32 AM
Re: Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldWampum (Post 1711553) People think they are toys, but they can be effective.
Don't get me wrong, the .410 has it's place. But the statement you made always bugs me when I hear it (in whatever context, firearms, tools, archery etc). The use of the word "CAN" in my opinion leaves the door open that in some case it is not effective. I hear people say "In the hands of a skilled person this or that CAN be deadly/effective." Well lets face it, most people are not skilled enough in high stress situations to harness the effectiveness of marginal weapon that is deadly in the hands of a skilled person. I don't want something in my arsenal (intentional stocked by me) that CAN be effective if the right person is equipped with it. I want my arsenal to be equipped with tools/weapons/loads that are effective regardless of who discharges the firearm. Don't get me wrong I will never turn down a 410 if it is all I got, but that goes without saying.

GoldWampum | 05-07-2009 08:36 AM
Re: Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck Quote:
Originally Posted by teedub31 (Post 1711981) Don't get me wrong, the .410 has it's place. But the statement you made always bugs me when I hear it (in whatever context, firearms, tools, archery etc). The use of the word "CAN" in my opinion leaves the door open that in some case it is not effective. I hear people say "In the hands of a skilled person this or that CAN be deadly/effective." Well lets face it, most people are not skilled enough in high stress situations to harness the effectiveness of marginal weapon that is deadly in the hands of a skilled person. I don't want something in my arsenal (intentional stocked by me) that CAN be effective if the right person is equipped with it. I want my arsenal to be equipped with tools/weapons/loads that are effective regardless of who discharges the firearm. Don't get me wrong I will never turn down a 410 if it is all I got, but that goes without saying.
No gun is effective without knowing how and when to use it. They CAN be though. Would you rush a man with a 410 pointed your way any quicker than one with a twelve? I wouldn't. And I was speaking in the context of home defense. In that case, used properly, they ARE very effective. Your problem is no more than semantics. Semantics do nothing to prevent a wound.

teedub31 | 05-07-2009 09:51 AM
Re: Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck No I would not charge a guy with any gun. But that has more to do with the fact that it is a gun, not a 410. Few people would have the where with all to even note that it is a 410, or 12ga or any other gun. It is a gun and that is a deterent enough and the confrontation ends. Now take the rare instance of an assailant decideing the deterent wasn't enough and continues the assult. Yes I could use a 410 to effectively dispatch anyone. Now could my wife??? I am not sure, as her firearm skills are no where near mine. I feel more comfortable with her throwing lead from a 20ga or 12ga at an assailant. Knowingly bringing a 410 to a confrontation is akin to bringing a push mower to mow a 5 acre yard. It can do the job, but there are a lot better choices. If you are spending money on a 410 I'd advise spending just a little more and get something bigger. JMO

Rebel Yarr | 05-07-2009 12:03 PM
Re: Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck Not every gun you have thas to be your "pointing at other people" gun. .410 is a great gauge for women and kids to shoot.

tulsamal | 05-07-2009 12:49 PM
Re: Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck Those advertised velocities are for a shotgun length barrel. It would be interesting to see "real world" observed velocities out of that Judge. They are sort of interesting guns but I remain skeptical that they are really a good idea for self defense. And you have to wonder about what kind of pattern those 000 Buck will generate? They are going to have to be stacked literally one on top of the other. Then bounce their way down the bore. Inside a house, probably no problem. 25 yards is a heck of a long way for this sort of thing. I don't think I would say it was "suitable for deer to 25 yards" until I had actually patterned them out of my gun and seen how they do with my own eyes. I wouldn't be greatly surprised if you could only get one or two pellets on the paper at 25 yards. I could be wrong but I would have to see it before I would try it on a deer! Gregg

Pat | 05-07-2009 09:25 PM
Re: Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck A normal person can easily shoot, maintain control and deliver some awesome firepower from a 410 shot gun with proper loads. Much more controllable than a 12 gauge. 1 pull of the trigger and 5 rounds of 9mm size lead screaming out the barrel. 5 shells in the tube and 25 rounds available. Velocity and energy of the 410's 000 shot is the same as a 12. Patterns just as good as any 12. Small, compact, very controllable firepower.

teedub31 | 05-08-2009 10:30 AM
Re: Winchesters .410 loads, 000 buck Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Yarr (Post 1712306) Not every gun you have thas to be your "pointing at other people" gun. .410 is a great gauge for women and kids to shoot.
I agree that a .410 is a pleasure to shoot, especially for kids and women. However, I refrain from having them use it. I have seen too many peppered rabbits get away. But this is part of the reason it is considered by those that shoot skeet and trap to be an experts shotgun, not a beginners. Anyhow, we were not talking about general "shootability" (if budlight can make up a word so can I). We were talking about it as a "point at other people" gun.

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