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- - Newbie looking for a rifle (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=322083)

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 11-13-2008 08:51 PM
Newbie looking for a rifle Greetings. There's a lot of advice on this forum, and I've tried to tread lightly. However, I'm buying this weekend at www.glendalegunshow.com and I would like some last minute advice. I can already tell I'm going to get yanked around a little bit since I am no expert. But I'm willing to share some of what I have and in return I'd like a little advice. This guy snapped a photo of the same model ruger that I have...Although mine doesn't have the front legs...it does have the same scope, and the same green hogue stock with the rubberized butt. It is heavy : ) I picked it up to practice accuracy with a rifle on the cheap. http://www.nutwoodrocks.com/1022_01.jpg I also have one of these in .40 calibur http://sgcusa.com/images/large/M&P_SW209000.jpg And I have myself a customized mossberg 500. I don't have a camera and it's got some doodads on it, so no picture of that one. Now I'm looking to move into a bigger calibur rifle. I've tried to read about calibur, but they all sound great. 7.62x39; 7.62x54; 30-06; .308; I haven't ever shot any of these. Only what I have posted above. I'm getting pretty good with the .22LR and I'm looking to pick up a World War II era rifle as my next step into the world of long-guns. The Mosin-Nagant looks nicest, as does, The SKS or Mauser or Garand. The thread about the lever action Marlins made me droooool. I like the idea of a rifle and pistol that match ammunition. But that is for later. My priorities for this rifle that I'm looking to buy, are: 1. Improve accuracy shooting "larger" calibur rifle. Iron Sights to begin and scope later, on a long enough timeline I'll have done both. 2. Multi-functional calibur - Can go hunting with it, can potentially protect the campsite from wildlife with it. If I can do this with .22 ammo, I'm pretty sure I can do it on a bigger rifle, too. But I'm listing my priorities here, and this is one of them 3. Own a piece of history - I went to school for military history. I'd prefer something that the good guys carried, but that doesn't matter (I have enough evil looking Khukris, that's for sure) I am kind of lost, guys. It's a lot to study and I only have a few days left. I'm willing to make an inexpensive mistake. Any advice on which ways I should direct my studies? Or should I just show up and get whatever looks good to me? I'm also looking to pick up a 2nd wood-stock .22LR. I'm hoping to find this very inexpensive at the show.

Eulenspiegel | 11-13-2008 09:21 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Given your parameters: * Mosin-Nagant is cheap, and can be made accurate, but ammo can be hard to come by. It IS cheap but also corrosive, which means a lot more maintenance (you have to clean your gun basically right after you shoot.) * SKS is a nice gun, lots use it for hunting, 7.62x39 is currently easy to come by but if Obama bans ammo imports, say bye-bye. It's hard to get that caliber as it is. Unfortunately most 7.62x39 isn't very accurate, and not many reload it. * Mauser is accurate, but has the same ammo issue as the Mosin-Nagant. * Garand for the win. .30-06 is everywhere and dirt cheap from the CMP (though I'd advise you to get it now.) It's accurate, good for hunting, and the Garand is an American classic and one of the great battle rifles. Garands are more expensive than any of your other choices, however. So my order would be: * Garand overall is the best, but it's going to cost more for the weapon. * Mosin-Nagant if you want to go cheap. * SKS as a good compromise.

mkinla | 11-13-2008 09:23 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Don't waste your time, I stopped going when it was cheaper to get ammo on the internet. Don't plan on getting any worth while deals, TRUST ME....:wink: But you can get some good deals on Beef Jerky, and if you search for Glendale Gun Show, you can get a $1 coupon.....

Ag_man | 11-13-2008 09:30 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle TNE, there are several ways to go. I would recommend that you go with a SKS as your first centerfire rifle for a couple reasons; first, they are relatively inexpensive and they provide a good, usable platform for the 7.62x39 cartridge when you decide to go with an AK at some time in the future. I like Mosin-Nagants, the 7.62x54R is very comparable to the .30-06 with regard to energy on target. The price can be right if you know what to look for. If you can evaluate the condition of the rifle (rifling, etc) well, they are worth the money, otherwise you might end up with a shot-up POS. When I bought my M38, I spent an hour looking over a batch of ~50 rifles, M38s, M44 and the odd 91-30, before I found the one I wanted. Good luck and have fun at the gun show!

ohioarmedneutrality | 11-13-2008 10:31 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Whatever you decide to get, make sure it has an evil-looking bayonet. Gun-phobes hate bayonets, because they're scary and confusing and make them pee down their legs - Reason enough to have one. A year ago, I might have recommended a Mosin Nagant, but the prices of even the surplus, corrosive ammo have gone up. If you can afford a Garand, go for it, but the SKS might be your best bet right now. Good luck!

Caligula | 11-13-2008 10:34 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioarmedneutrality (Post 1415093) Whatever you decide to get, make sure it has an evil-looking bayonet. Gun-phobes hate bayonets, because they're scary and confusing and make them pee down their legs - Reason enough to have one.
Damn. That made me spit water on my desk for some reason. That was some funny chit...:rofl::emotions16::cry1:

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 11-13-2008 10:35 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Thank you sirs. I hate it when there isn't any clear-cut good answer. I don't mind paying more for the M1 Garand if the Garand is the thing to have. I've always been drawn to 30-06 ammunition as well. Ag_man, your point is well taken about the SKS being a stepping stone into a Kalishnakov. Is .308 a more high-end calibur?

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 11-13-2008 10:36 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioarmedneutrality (Post 1415093) Whatever you decide to get, make sure it has an evil-looking bayonet. Gun-phobes hate bayonets, because they're scary and confusing and make them pee down their legs - Reason enough to have one.
Yeah, I want a bayonette really badly. I almost put that in the "priorities" list. Garand Ammo isn't corrosive?

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 11-13-2008 10:36 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by mkinla (Post 1414984) Don't waste your time, I stopped going when it was cheaper to get ammo on the internet. Don't plan on getting any worth while deals, TRUST ME....:wink: But you can get some good deals on Beef Jerky, and if you search for Glendale Gun Show, you can get a $1 coupon.....
I went to their August show, and the beef jerkey guy and the belt lady got most of the money I did spend.

WAoG | 11-13-2008 10:44 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle How about a 303 British. Should be able to get one cheap and they are a great rifle.

ohioarmedneutrality | 11-13-2008 10:45 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNocturnalEgyptian (Post 1415106) Yeah, I want a bayonette really badly. I almost put that in the "priorities" list. Garand Ammo isn't corrosive?
The coolest thing about the Mosin's and the SKS's is that they have attached bayonets, that is, unless they've been purposefully removed for bubba-ing purposes. I'm not totally familiar with the Garand, but I suspect that by and large the ammo isn't corrosive like some of the 7.62x54R. And if there does happen to be a new ban on imported Russian-caliber ammo, like what happened under Bush the Elder (IIRC) with Chinese 7.62, 30.06 will be easier to acquire, unless it's taxed to unaffordability. Don't be overly concerned with corrosive ammo. There are ways to deal with it. Personally I just shoot some windex down the bore and then clean as normal. I'd be more worried about your chiropractor bill after firing an M-44 - that is one sweet-kicking rifle.

ohioarmedneutrality | 11-13-2008 10:49 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula (Post 1415103) Damn. That made me spit water on my desk for some reason. That was some funny chit...:rofl::emotions16::cry1:
Sorry about that. Just doing my thing.

Horn | 11-13-2008 10:52 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Is it easy to smuggle guns across the California state border, from Nevada? I'll bet they track everything there, don't they? I might be selling my SLR95 soon, as I am allowed to bring only bolt actions, or low calibers into Costa. Not sure though, I might try making a lamp out of it, or something?:smile: This post will self destruct in 5 seconds

Dr. Doom | 11-13-2008 10:53 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle An SKS is a poormans M1 Garand IMO. That said I have 3 sks's, and 1 garand. Lots of 7.62x39 out there, .30-06 surplus is getting harder to get unless you go CMP.

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 11-13-2008 11:33 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle I'm a little turned off by the idea of shooting 1$ rounds : ( Maybe I'll just shoot .22LR for the rest of my life I really appreciate the wisdom and input from the people who have been around longer than I have, however.

jetgraphics | 11-13-2008 11:40 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioarmedneutrality (Post 1415093) ... the SKS might be your best bet right now.
JG: If you're short (or short armed) you will really like the Chinese version.

Horn | 11-13-2008 11:44 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNocturnalEgyptian (Post 1415174) I'm a little turned off by the idea of shooting 1$ rounds : (
Whadya mean? I was willing to part with my 7.62X39s for .10c each. Am I way off base nowadays?

Eulenspiegel | 11-13-2008 11:45 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNocturnalEgyptian (Post 1415174) I'm a little turned off by the idea of shooting 1$ rounds : ( Maybe I'll just shoot .22LR for the rest of my life I really appreciate the wisdom and input from the people who have been around longer than I have, however.
What is $1/round? CMP .30-06 runs about 27c/round, I think. Brass cased so it's reloadable. 7.62x39 runs for about 22c/round now, more or less. 7.62x54r surplus runs 17c/round or so.

Horn | 11-13-2008 11:53 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulenspiegel (Post 1415195) 7.62x39 runs for about 22c/round now, more or less. 7.62x54r surplus runs 17c/round or so.
Wow, my lead held better than my silver!! That 54r? Is that only low right now because the N.Koreans liquidated? Shouldn't that round cost 4X as much?

AZLiberty | 11-14-2008 12:00 AM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle M1 Garand for the Win. Just about the best iron sights ever made. However, have you considered an M1903A3?

mkinla | 11-14-2008 12:16 AM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle NONE OF THESE WILL EXIST AT THIS GUN SHOW Sorry for yelling. This is Commiefornia.... The OP needs to view www.calguns.net and start there PLEASE... I'm banned from there, but they do run a good gun site... Just don't discuss anything over an IQ of 90 concerning politics...

wallew | 11-14-2008 12:17 AM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle TNE, As you did not give us a price range to work with, I'm going to 'shoot in the dark' as it were. The Mosin can be had in numerous varieties. I've used 'Classic Arms' for a lot of purchases of firearms and ammo. They have Mosin 91/30's from $80 to $100. Pay the extra ten dollars for hand select. You won't be sorry. If you have a little more money to spend, the Mosin 91/30 Sniper comes with a scope made for this rifle for $450. Now if you want to go 'whole hog', consider the FPK - PSL Romanian Sniper (aka Romak 3) for $750. It comes with the scope and two ten round mags. I'd get two or three more ten round mags now, because later may be too late. 7.62x54R is currently running about $230 for a 1200 round case. I've owned or shot most calibers. Any calber that starts with a three or larger (as in .30 Caliber) is the way to go. For conversion to European specs that means any caliber that starts out at 7.62 x ?? is a thirty caliber bullet. The second number is the length of the bullet itself. The larger the bullet, generally speaking the more recoil you will absorb firing it. Not to say this is something that is bad. But if you are recoil sensitive (some people are), then consider the semi-auto versions of any given caliber, as some of the recoil will be absorbed in making the weapon function properly. This would mean the SKS, the FPK/PSL/Romak 3 or the Garand, which are all semi auto rifles would be a good choice if you consider yourself to be recoil sensitive. One thing you need to know is that the SKS has a ten round magazine built into the rifle itself which can be recharged by using ten round stripper clips. The Romak 3 has removable ten round mags and the Garand uses 8 round 'clips' that you load into the rifle. I seriously doubt you will want to add a scope to a Garand, as it's generally not cheap to do it correctly, but you CAN do it. 30-06 ammo is starting to go up fairly quickly. As is 7.62x39 and the 7.62x54R as well. And while I do concur that Obama may very well ban imports of ammo, if he does so he will also tax the snot out of any US made ammo. So that should not be a consideration in your choice of firearms. A case of 1000 rounds of 7.62x39 is currently running about $250 or more. A case of 500 rounds of 30-06 start at $100 (at CMP - though it is 50 year old surplus and you will experience up to 15% of it to be bad) and I've seen it as high as $350 for 500 rounds. Pick the rifle you want and buy at least a couple of cases or ammo to go with it now. Then see what happens. You could spend $100 on a Mosin 91/30. Then drop another $460 for 2400 rounds of ammo and you would have spent somewhere near $600 - $650 depending on s&h, taxes and the handling fee most FFL holders will charge you to process your background check for whatever firearm you choose. My buddy charges $30 per gun. Prices for a good SKS start around $250 and go up from there. Prices for a good example of a Garand start around $750 and can get REAL expensive, depending on your tastes. Hope that helps. Just realize that you have just over two months to get this type of purchase done AND gun sales are at an all time high. Some places are either running out of guns AND ammo or are already out. So don't hesitate to ask questions. General or specific, there are no bad questions you can ask.

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 11-14-2008 01:15 AM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by Eulenspiegel (Post 1415195) What is $1/round? CMP .30-06 runs about 27c/round, I think. Brass cased so it's reloadable. 7.62x39 runs for about 22c/round now, more or less. 7.62x54r surplus runs 17c/round or so.
I was way off base, I pulled some prices right out of google, I didn't realize those caliburs could be gotten that cheaply. Quote:
Originally Posted by mkinla (Post 1415252) NONE OF THESE WILL EXIST AT THIS GUN SHOW Sorry for yelling. This is Commiefornia.... The OP needs to view www.calguns.net and start there PLEASE... I'm banned from there, but they do run a good gun site... Just don't discuss anything over an IQ of 90 concerning politics...
Thank you Mkinla...I know you're from my area...and have been around the loop a couple more times than I have... Although I am downright surprised that they won't be there, I believe you when you say you know. I just figured they'd all fit in the C&R section....I guess I better hit calguns.

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 11-14-2008 01:26 AM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by AZLiberty (Post 1415222) M1 Garand for the Win. Just about the best iron sights ever made. However, have you considered an M1903A3?
http://vishooter2.home.att.net/Firearms/rem_1903a3.jpg I can dig it! This is kind of what I am looking for. An old school rifle, that works.

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 11-14-2008 01:39 AM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1415253) TNE, If you have a little more money to spend, the Mosin 91/30 Sniper comes with a scope made for this rifle for $450. Now if you want to go 'whole hog', consider the FPK - PSL Romanian Sniper (aka Romak 3) for $750. It comes with the scope and two ten round mags. I'd get two or three more ten round mags now, because later may be too late. This would mean the SKS, the FPK/PSL/Romak 3 or the Garand, which are all semi auto rifles would be a good choice if you consider yourself to be recoil sensitive. One thing you need to know is that the SKS has a ten round magazine built into the rifle itself which can be recharged by using ten round stripper clips. The Romak 3 has removable ten round mags and the Garand uses 8 round 'clips' that you load into the rifle.
http://www.snipercountry.com/graphic...niperRifle.png Whoa. That's crazy. ^ ^ ^ I would definitaly have to shoot that before buying one. http://webpages.charter.net/dfmarino...sinSniper2.jpg Looks Pretty. I have a question about the way the Garand is reloaded. Based on your description, I feel like it can be reloaded, without being unloaded...Is there a way to do that? That is to say, reload without being empty and without being unready to fire? Come to think of it, is there a name for the type of mechanism I just described?

Squirrel Bait | 11-14-2008 01:50 AM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Nightime Egyptian. Don't forget the KISS concept. s

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 11-14-2008 02:09 AM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle I'm just naturally verbose. My rifle should be the opposite of that. An ideal rifle throws down: .

morganchaser | 11-14-2008 02:37 AM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNocturnalEgyptian (Post 1415355) http://www.snipercountry.com/graphic...niperRifle.png
I've heard nothing good about the PSL rifles for the record. ~2-3 MOA is typical?

Twisted Avatar | 11-16-2008 04:19 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1415253) TNE, As you did not give us a price range to work with, I'm going to 'shoot in the dark' as it were. The Mosin can be had in numerous varieties. I've used 'Classic Arms' for a lot of purchases of firearms and ammo.
Nobody can get through to classic arms they are absoluetly flooded and disabled there website and wont pick up the phone until the work through the back log. DEAR FRIENDS- WE HAVE SO MANY PENDING ORDERS ON THE FLOOR THAT WE ARE IN DANGER OF OVERSELLING ON VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE. AS SUCH WILL DISCONTINUE ANSWERING THE PHONES OR TAKING ORDERS UNTIL WE CAN GET A CLEAR IDEA OF WHAT WE STILL ACTUALLY HAVE IN STOCK. OUR PLAN IS TO WORK ALL WEEKEND TO GET CAUGHT UP AND THEN HOPEFULLY POST BACK UP THE ITEMS WE HAVE LEFT IN STOCK AND BEGIN TAKING ORDERS AGAIN ON MONDAY. WE WILL HAVE 7.62X39 AMMO AND .223 AMMO AVAILABLE NEXT WEEK AS WELL AS SOME FIREARMS. EVERYTHING ELSE IS IN LIMBO. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE. http://www.classicarms.us/

erocktxmade | 11-16-2008 04:38 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle .300 Magnum Weatherby http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...Picture001.jpg

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Twisted Avatar | 11-16-2008 04:45 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Thats a nice piece of Glass ontop Erock....... Dose it use a battery ??? is the mag better that 8x??? T

ohioarmedneutrality | 11-16-2008 05:45 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Nocturnal, go to http://gun-deals.com/index.php This site lists ammo prices and links you to the retailer. Of course, when you get to their site, it might be "sold out" or "2-week delay." Still it will give you an idea of ammo prices and who is selling.

ohioarmedneutrality | 11-16-2008 05:47 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Oh I forgot, once you are there click on the "Ammo" link at the top of that page. This will take you to a page where you can select by caliber.

cugir321 | 11-16-2008 05:58 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Get a galoni (galil) .......reasonable price for a milled receiver gun. .223, they have new and improved barrels (recently), milled receiver, ambi safety, nice sold folder for when you have to sneek around. Decently accurate for an ak type. The only sks's left are somewhat used. Good gun at decent price...not what it used to be pricewise. SKS if your on a budget....Galoni if you can spend a little more. You do need a semi for the shtf. Call Dave at century if you want 7.62 x 39....no 223. 139.87 for 700 rounds. Romanian fmj. 800-999-4899 ext 6...don't wait! It is on sale. (hopefully it is tommorrow after the rush this weekend)

erocktxmade | 11-16-2008 07:53 PM
Re: Newbie looking for a rifle Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1419169) Thats a nice piece of Glass ontop Erock....... Dose it use a battery ??? is the mag better that 8x??? T
Unfortunately it's not my rifle... But I would love to get one. I would trade up to 3 Krugs at spot value for a badass set-up in this rifle. May have to look into it...

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