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Dirty Harry | 04-02-2009 08:40 AM
Pizza shop owner shoots robber Dateline Akron Ohio......JUSTICE SERVED http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/42296357.html UPDATE: Pizza shop owner describes robbery, shooting By Phil Trexler and Bill Lilley Beacon Journal staff writers POSTED: 07:52 p.m. EDT, Apr 01, 2009 John Hayes wants only to sell pizzas, not shoot robbers. But the day after his West Akron pizza parlor was held up and he shot and killed the shotgun-armed robber, Hayes remains concerned about his business, his life and the health of his six workers. He wants the public to know why he opened fire: He didn't want to be killed, like other robbery victims around the city. He wants only to sell pizzas. ''I'm devastated,'' he said inside Your Pizza Shop, the West Exchange Street parlor he purchased two months ago. ''It's an unbelievable situation I've been put into because of some person's carelessness and thoughtlessness. ''I'm in fear of my life, my employees' lives and the lives of everybody I know.'' Hayes, 37, was behind the counter Tuesday night when 20-year-old Patrick Finney, wearing an orange ski mask, walked in and pointed a sawed-off shotgun at his head just before 8 p.m. A customer, an older woman from the neighborhood, was seated at the counter watching the Cavaliers game while waiting for a stromboli. ''He said, 'Give me the [expletive] money. This is an [expletive] robbery,'' Hayes said. Hayes cooperated, giving the robber a stack of $10 bills. The robber wanted more and pointed the shotgun within inches of Hayes' head, he said. ''As soon as I gave him the money, I pulled my gun out from my hip, pointed it and fired four shots,'' Hayes said. Finney fell to the floor, then stood back up. Hayes fired three more shots from his Smith & Wesson 9 mm pistol. Finney staggered outside and collapsed across the street. The cash he sought was dropped outside. Hayes then called 911. ''I just got robbed at my pizza shop, 1077 West Exchange Street,'' Hayes says on the recording released by Akron police. ''OK, what kind. . . .does he have a weapon?'' a dispatcher asks. ''He had a weapon, a gun. I shot him. He's across the street laying down right now,'' Hayes says. ''You shot him?'' the dispatcher replies in a startled voice. ''I shot him right in front of me while he was holding a gun on me,'' Hayes replies. Finney was taken to Akron General Medical Center. He died within the hour. An autopsy on Wednesday showed he was shot multiple times in the torso. The death has been ruled a homicide. Akron police are investigating the shooting, but there is no indication that Hayes, who has been questioned by investigators, acted unlawfully. It was the fourth robbery at the shop since 2007. Police Lt. Rick Edwards said Finney had no felony convictions, but he had been arrested in 2008 and charged with marijuana drug abuse. Finney failed to appear in court and a warrant was issued for his arrest. Finney's mother, Patricia, lives six blocks south of Buchtel High School on Winton Avenue, but a neighbor said that Patrick Finney had lived with his grandmother until she died a few years ago. Efforts to reach other family members for comment were unsuccessful. An acquaintance of Finney, Kenneth Amos, 20, of Akron, was arrested after the shooting and charged with tampering with evidence. He had items that belonged to Finney, Edwards said. Police would not say whether the items were connected to the robbery. Hayes said the neighborhood reaction to the shooting has been troubling. A woman stood outside his shop taking pictures, for no apparent reason. Others have called and hung up. Business was slow Wednesday afternoon. His delivery drivers are concerned about retaliation. He said he carries a weapon, with a concealed carry permit and regular shooting practice, to avoid being a victim. He cited the recent case of the North Hill man shot in a carjacking as reason for his fear of being shot during a robbery. ''People don't care. They take $100 and don't give a [expletive]. They don't want to be identified and so they kill you,'' he said. ''I'm not going to be killed for $100.'' Residents and business owners believe the neighborhood remains safe, despite the robbery. Scott Sella has been the lead designer for two years and owner since January of the Every Blooming Thing flower and gift shop in the Houston Building. ''I'm not considering moving,'' he said. ''This has been a very good location for the shop in the 18 years that it's been here and I really like it.'' Resident Dave Mariani said he's owned his house on Burton Avenue just off West Exchange Street since 1973, and this is the first time something of this nature has happened in this part of the neighborhood. Mariani said his family had just returned to its two-story home about 10 minutes before the shooting. ''I thought I heard something and my dogs started barking,'' Mariani said. ''I heard a bang, but didn't think much of it because one of the neighbors had been working on his fence. I didn't realize it was a bullet that had been shot.'' Mariani said his 9-year-old daughter alerted him a few minutes later to the fact that several police cars were at the pizza shop. And he saw Finney lying in a heap on Amelia Avenue. ''He tried to run, but he only got a block and then he fell,'' Mariani said. ''I didn't let my daughters go down there because it would have been too traumatic.'' John Hayes wants only to sell pizzas, not shoot robbers. But the day after his West Akron pizza parlor was held up and he shot and killed the shotgun-armed robber, Hayes remains concerned about his business, his life and the health of his six workers. He wants the public to know why he opened fire: He didn't want to be killed, like other robbery victims around the city. He wants only to sell pizzas.

Silvestor | 04-02-2009 08:51 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber http://i40.tinypic.com/1zq5uzb.jpg http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-pizzash...,6288262.story

mtnman | 04-02-2009 08:51 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber 7 hits with a 9mm and the bad guy is still able run across the street to die????? All the more reason to carry a .45! Good guy 1, robber 0, game over. The good guys win another one!

bwelkk | 04-02-2009 08:54 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Chest Chest .. Head not Torso Torso Torso Torso ... Torso Torso Torso

Fanta | 04-02-2009 08:57 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber I'd buy a pizza from him!

oldschoolsilver | 04-02-2009 09:03 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber I thought the same thing: 7 hits with the 9 mm and the guy ran? That is why a gun should have stopping power: .357 w/125 grain hollowpoints, .45, etc. Here's a good site on stopping power of different loads/calibers: http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppi...r=5&Weight=All

JJ_ | 04-02-2009 09:14 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber That POS needed killin.. I wonder if he had ball loaded. Good HP's shouldda kept him down. At that range Ball ammo would have surely been thru and thru. It would be interesting to know the specifics. go .40 or .45 to be sure.

Dirty Harry | 04-02-2009 09:24 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1658797) Meh, I'd be happy with the results if I'd had a 12 gauge stuck in my face. I'm sure it's quite a bit different than being at the range. :wink: *what's great is he had the mindset...and when the perp got back up he went to firing again.
Agreed. Just an average guy. Good chance his aim was thrown off by the COUNTERWEIGHT in his drawers! :ok:

S_Goldberg | 04-02-2009 09:40 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Chest Chest .. Head not Torso Torso Torso Torso ... Torso Torso Torso
and the number of times you have successful engaged a target who had a gun pointed at is how many? oh wait, let me guess....ZERO Talk to anyone who has actually had to do it. Bad guys move, have guns, and your adrenaline kicks in. Those silhouette targets you shoot at athe range are stationary, unarmed, and you are generally quite calm.

CoinHunter53562 | 04-02-2009 09:46 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 1658863) and the number of times you have successful engaged a target who had a gun pointed at is how many? oh wait, let me guess....ZERO Talk to anyone who has actually had to do it. Bad guys move, have guns, and your adrenaline kicks in. Those silhouette targets you shoot at athe range are stationary, unarmed, and you are generally quite calm.
Good point. I've never been in that situation but remember one morning where I thought I heard noises downstairs and the dogs were going nuts. Just reaching for the semiauto in my nightstand was a struggle. I couldnt imagine if someone had actually come in and up the stairs.

JJ_ | 04-02-2009 09:58 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber is adrenaline leagal to purchase?:biggrin:

Plastic | 04-02-2009 10:08 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber That turds death was ruled a homicide, does that mean they will be charging the pizza shop hero with murder now? Would'nt surprise me at all....

CrufflerJJ | 04-02-2009 10:14 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1658902) is adrenaline leagal to purchase?:biggrin:
You can buy 1:1000 concentration epinephrine online for pet use. I wouldn't really recommend playing around with it, unless you like elevated blood pressure & other possibly unpleasant side effects. That being said, I think it was Massad Ayoob that did some tests looking at the effect of subQ injections of 1:1000 epi on shooter performance.

Onboard | 04-02-2009 10:15 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber The killing of one human being by another human being. Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder. Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal. The intent of the killer usually determines whether a criminal homicide is classified as murder or Manslaughter and at what degree. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Homicide

Plastic | 04-02-2009 10:16 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1658947) With a little luck they'll pin it on his homey that grabbed his loot and ran off.
Oh that's right, I forgot in some states when a death occurs during a robbery the other criminals get charged with murder. I Hope that law is on the books in that State. EDIT: Thanks Onboard.

mayhem | 04-02-2009 10:18 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic (Post 1658937) That turds death was ruled a homicide, does that mean they will be charging the pizza shop hero with murder now? Would'nt surprise me at all....
That is the glitch in the law. It opens the shop owner to a civil law suit.

mayhem | 04-02-2009 10:30 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1658969) I believe Ohio passed a castle law preventing civil liability. Became law Sept 8, 2008? Anyone? http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/5730
OK, we have that in Florida but I was not sure about Ohio. The DA will just let this one die on his desk.

Eroberer | 04-02-2009 10:31 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber I imagine things would be worse for the shop owner had Finney survived. Imagine the civil suit then.

bwelkk | 04-02-2009 10:34 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 1658863) and the number of times you have successful engaged a target who had a gun pointed at is how many? oh wait, let me guess....ZERO
You got me I guess we all like to assume that range time can make up for experience, or that there is some way to keep cool in that kind of situation.

CAVU | 04-02-2009 10:37 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Its interesting to read about peoples general reactions there when a person defends themselves. Wonder how the view is on gun ownership in Ohio? Quote:
Hayes said the neighborhood reaction to the shooting has been troubling. A woman stood outside his shop taking pictures, for no apparent reason. Others have called and hung up. Business was slow Wednesday afternoon.
Thought Ohio was a gun friendly state. If that were Texas the guy would be given a medal. Quote:
Residents and business owners believe the neighborhood remains safe, despite the robbery.
Its actually safer now thanks to the pizza man.

NOOB | 04-02-2009 11:13 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber With a name like patrick finney I thought it was an irishman. Must be from south ireland. Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvestor (Post 1658758) http://i40.tinypic.com/1zq5uzb.jpg http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-pizzash...,6288262.story

Twisted Avatar | 04-02-2009 11:47 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Eroberer (Post 1658984) I imagine things would be worse for the shop owner had Finney survived. Imagine the civil suit then.
Yep.........it would have been way worse.

Twisted Avatar | 04-02-2009 12:11 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber 1 Attachment(s) .......................

S_Goldberg | 04-02-2009 05:08 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
You got me I guess we all like to assume that range time can make up for experience, or that there is some way to keep cool in that kind of situation.
yes. I just hope that if I ever have to defend myself I have enough cool to hit the guy and put him down. I am sure some people could keep their cool, but you can't know until you have been there. The best you can do is practice, practice, practice so you the skills become instinct.

CrufflerJJ | 04-02-2009 05:35 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 1659686) The best you can do is practice, practice, practice so you the skills become instinct.
What's WEIRD is to have your "instincts" pop to the surface when you get startled. That happened to me a couple times at work. People tend to look at you strangely when you bring up your hands abruptly, ready to "party" at some unconsciously perceived threat. If you work on self defense enough (?too much?), hand-to-hand training presents itself even when you're doing an OC class or in everyday life at the grocery store. Strange (OK, probably a bit too strange!), but true. With weapon handling, muscle memory is a good thing. That way, when you have some sort of weapon malfunction, you automatically clear it without thinking. It's only after the fact that you think back on what happened.

TTAZZMAN | 04-02-2009 06:42 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Looking at the video they show a couple of holes in the glass which leads me to believe he was not shooting hollowpoints and the bullets passed right though his abdemon with out producing much "knock down" lessons to be learned....shoot hollowpoints....and know what is behind your target it would be intresting to know what ammo he was shooting though

bwelkk | 04-02-2009 06:53 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Shoot your cheap stuff at the range guys, but the 7-15 rounds in your carry gun can save your life. Spend some green.

CrufflerJJ | 04-02-2009 07:22 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1659818) Looking at the video they show a couple of holes in the glass which leads me to believe he was not shooting hollowpoints and the bullets passed right though his abdemon with out producing much "knock down"
I dunno.....I've seen "through & through" wounds with .40 S&W hollow point that punched through the torso/abdomen/head (Glock mag emptied into the target person, up close & personal). Not sure of the exact loading that was used, since I had other things on my mind at the time.

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 04-02-2009 08:00 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Glad to hear there were no innocents hurt. Glad to hear the guy defending his property won.

latemetal | 04-02-2009 08:20 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Good Shoot, sadly as the economy cools, we will see more.:36_1_30:

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voodoo1951 | 04-02-2009 08:27 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Hmmmmm....I knew there was a reason I don't own any 9mm. Usually I'm carrying a .357 Snubbie or .45 OACP. I figure if I gotta shoot some douchebag, I want him gowing down as fast as possible. Shoot the cheap stuff at the range and spend a couple of bucks for some premium defense loads. It could be the difference between life or death in a situation as described by the OP. I'm just sayin'...

argentos | 04-02-2009 09:09 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by bwelkk (Post 1658771) Chest Chest .. Head not Torso Torso Torso Torso ... Torso Torso Torso
Pedantry alert.:biggrin: The chest is part of the torso*. *torso = the main part of the human body, without the limbs and head.

TTAZZMAN | 04-02-2009 11:55 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo1951 (Post 1659997) Hmmmmm....I knew there was a reason I don't own any 9mm. Usually I'm carrying a .357 Snubbie or .45 OACP. I figure if I gotta shoot some douchebag, I want him gowing down as fast as possible. Shoot the cheap stuff at the range and spend a couple of bucks for some premium defense loads. It could be the difference between life or death in a situation as described by the OP. I'm just sayin'...
im no expert but judging from the holes in the glass he was just hole poking in the abdomen FMJ or HP .....im guessing the 45 would just poke a slightly bigger hole....now im guessing a 357 in hollowpoint surely would have expanded and would have gutted him....you certainly have to wonder .....makes me wonder about the ammo more than the caliber...may hafta go out and do some testing.....BTW i own all those calibers...38..357..9..45.....i mostly carry the 357 snubbie or a 9mm...been carrying the 9 mostly i better do some ammo testing

RaccoonRiverRadical | 05-17-2009 10:24 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1658902) is adrenaline leagal to purchase?:biggrin:
Nope, meth is illegal. (meth is similar to adrenaline.)

Ebie | 05-17-2009 10:39 AM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by CoinHunter53562 (Post 1658873) Good point. I've never been in that situation but remember one morning where I thought I heard noises downstairs and the dogs were going nuts. Just reaching for the semiauto in my nightstand was a struggle. I couldnt imagine if someone had actually come in and up the stairs.
CoinHunter, What weapon did you "wish" you had at that moment? Would a shotgun have been better? I am glad that nothing happened. Be well.

KAS | 05-17-2009 07:15 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber This reminded me of the movie snatch. You Tube
You Tube

Raymond | 05-21-2009 10:13 PM
Re: Pizza shop owner shoots robber Quote:
Originally Posted by RaccoonRiverRadical (Post 1726340) Nope, meth is illegal. (meth is similar to adrenaline.)
Epinephrine (adrenaline) is not a psychoactive substance, whereas methamphetamine is: Epinephrine - Wikipedia Methamphetamine - Wikipedia You can find epinephrine in any crash cart in any emergency room in the U.S., as it is used for cardiac arrest resuscitation = not illegal, but does require a prescription. ----- About the righteous shoot - I'm just glad the good guy got shots on target, without any innocents being injured in the process. I think he did just fine, probably better than I or the majority of people on this board would have done.

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