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Twisted Avatar | 02-28-2009 03:19 PM
Advice on Night Vision Gear Two Letters Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Dear Mr. Rawles, I have been reading your site for almost a year now and am grateful for your advise. I've read both Patriots and Retreats. Currently, I live in suburban Detroit and am looking for a farm out in the country. I'm good on food and many other items, but question my weapons battery. BTW, both my wife and I have attended the excellent training at Front Sight. Currently I have three handguns: an XDM-40 with four mags, Steyr M40 with four mags and a Taurus PT92 9mm with two mags. My long guns include two short-barrel 12 gauge shotguns with one having a dedicated light, one DPMS {AR-15 clone] .223 with dedicated light and Trijicon ACOG 4x32 scope, one DPMS .308 AR-10, and one Ruger 10/22. Crossbows are on my wish list. I have between 1,000 and 2,000 rounds of ammo for each weapon. I want to buy more ammo as well as reloading equipment and supplies. I want to buy a scope for the 308 and decided on a Leupold Mark-3 4.5-12x 40mm scope. My concern is night vision. Do I get a dedicated night vision scope for the .308 and forget the Leupold, or a stand alone [hand-held] night vision glass? What good is it to see with night vision, if I can't see it thru the scope to shoot? I don't think I'll need night vision in my subdivision, until I purchase the farm, but think I should get it now well it is still available. Of course my budget and lovely bride will only go for so much. Can you please advise? Thanks so much, - RP JWR Replies: Assuming that it is equipped with a flash hider, you should set up your AR-10 with an AN-PVS-4 Starlight scope, as your dedicated night-fighting rifle. With a throw-lever scope mount and a flip-up back-up iron sights (BUIS), you can quickly detach the Starlight scope and use the AR-10 for daylight shooting. (But of course be sure to do some target shooting tests to insure that the scope has correct "return to zero", when re-mounted. Be patient and plan to buy bolt action .308 (such as a Savage Model 10) for daylight long range shooting. (That is where the Leupold Mark-3 4.5-12x 40mm scope that you mentioned would be most appropriate.) And BTW, buy more magazines! With a renewed Federal ban now looming, you should acquire at least six spare mags for each handgun, and at least eight spares for each battle rifle. Buy them now, while they are still affordable. Full capacity magazine prices are likely to triple or quadruple if the Federal AWB is renewed. Hi James, I've been reading your blog for the last two years. Let me just tell you that you've been an inspiration to my family and my friends. We have recently acquired a country property here in Canada and are in the process of building our retreat. One thing that I have completely ignored, was the need for night vision equipment. In the country, in remote locations, or when the grid goes down, it is almost completely dark at night. I mean you cannot see two feet in front of you. I've been researching what is the best night vision equipment to use for patrolling, security and combat. I think I'm going with Gen2 goggles, but there is this one product called SuperVision by company called Xenonics. But I'm not sure how it works and whether it is suitable for retreat defense. Looking at different night vision products, my question to you is: What is the best option for avoiding night vision device (NVD) detection [by an opponent that has their own night vision gear]? The IR beams that some equipment generates or IR gun sights will be visible to someone using passive NVD, right? I'm just thinking that the best night vision equipment will be the one that has no signature, or are all NVDs visible to other NVDs? Another problem I see is that most firearms leave flash signature. Does the Vortex [flash hider] eliminate the flash completely? I think defending your retreat at night is a completely new ball game, there are many things that most of your readers might not be aware of or experimented with. I think NVDs are a must, just like the firearms. Without a good night vision equipment you cannot defend your retreat at night unless you get a good illumination from the moon. Thanks, - Peter JWR Replies: Let me begin by stating forthrightly that the claims of the makers of Supervision are more marketing hype than substance. They do not perform well out in the boonies where there is not much ambient light. Instead, go for mil-spec Gen 2 night vision gear, or better yet Gen 3 if you can afford it. Vortex type flash hiders reduce muzzle flash by about 90%. This video clip shows the dramatic difference of a rifle with and without a flash hider. (Can you see why I've had the muzzles threaded on all my bolt action centerfire rifles?) You Tube
You Tube
For versatility, I prefer weapon-mounted scopes that can be detached for use as hand-held monoculars.Make this your first purchase. If you have a big budget, then you can go on to buy goggles, but get your weapon sight first. You also asked about opponents equipped with vision gear being able to detect you. In brief: If you use active IR devices (illuminators or lasers), they can definitely be seen! But it is important to note that even "passive" night vision gear casts a back-light. (This is the light of the image that you are seeing being cast on your face.) Through another NVD this looks like a bright flashlight! For this reason, I discourage SurvivalBlog readers from buying any night vision scope that does not have a baffled ("flap") eyecup type eyeguard. (The baffle only opens when you have the scope pressed up against your eye, minimizing back-lighting.) This fault is common with nearly all of the commercial night vision gear on the market. (But some of these scopes can be retrofitted with mil-spec eyeguards.) My recommended suppliers for Starlight weapon sights and goggles are JRH Enterprises and Ready Made Resources. For full mil-spec units as well as spare intensifier tubes, talk to STANO Components. http://www.survivalblog.com/

honu5050 | 02-28-2009 03:21 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear night vison? o'ya mean a flare launcher. :15_1_70v:

Igotyour6 | 02-28-2009 07:42 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear 1 Attachment(s) mortar Illuminating round:23_31_2:course I am just kidding

BigJosh | 02-28-2009 07:54 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear This one looks pretty awesome. http://www.night-vision.com/moreinfo/ps_7b_info.html but I will probably end up getting this one: http://www.night-vision.com/moreinfo/pvs_4_info.html

T-rev | 02-28-2009 09:01 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear I don't think night vision goggles are illegal in canada, however I believe it is illegal to ship gen 2 & 3 night vision products out of the USA. Its a similar thing to exporting firearms and parts. The stuff is totally legal to import into canada, however there are serious regulations on the US side with respect to exporting. This has to do with exporting military technology. edit: The cheapest/easiest way would be to ship to a US address and have it re-mailed by a "friend" since companies don't go for that kind of thing.

Bill843 | 02-28-2009 09:06 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Night vision gear is fun to play with, but the main survivalist use for it in SHTF is for poaching at night. ,,,,,, And if you don't want to be seen (and people are close enough to SEE you) then you don't want to be heard either.... ....So.... -you really need a silence-able weapon for that--and of all the weapons the first-letter-guy in the OP has collected, only the Ruger 10/22 fits that bill...... and he asked about putting the NV scope on his .308. ------ This concern for "engaging enemies with NV equipment" is sadly misguided. Anyone so equipped is likely to be police or military--and you can't out-shoot them. They have more people, more equipment, and will surround you and then you're done for. The main way to "use" NV against the evil government would be to use the NV to spot the g-men coming up your driveway in the dark, and then you would run like hell without firing at all. In that case you need to get away before you are surrounded. -end-

Bx3 | 02-28-2009 10:28 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Don't under estimate how many people have NV capabilities. While it is a very, very small percentage of the population, it will only take one guy so equipped to ruin all of your plans. I personally know about a half dozen and they are not even active Mil/LEO. Situational awareness alone validates NV, even if it only helps you to bypass trouble. As for those who advocate flares and bright flash lights to compensate for their lack of NV capabilities.... :4_1_72::4_1_72::4_1_72:

GSM/MM | 02-28-2009 11:33 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear i am considering this---pairing gen1 goggles from atn or yukon with a gen2 weapon mounted optic to gain the advantage if needed, defend or harass---any thoughts?

Bx3 | 02-28-2009 11:51 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear A weapon mounted NV optic is OK if you are in a prepared position and don't plan on being mobile. Otherwise, a head mount with a NV compatible optic on your bang stick will give you the most flexibility. If you can afford a Gen 1, try to upgrade to a Gen 2, if you can afford a Gen 2, try to upgrade to a Gen 3. The difference between the generations is almost exponential. In the end, even a Gen 1 trumps having nothing though.

WAoG | 03-01-2009 12:04 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1600172) Night vision gear is fun to play with, but the main survivalist use for it in SHTF is for poaching at night. ,,,,,, And if you don't want to be seen (and people are close enough to SEE you) then you don't want to be heard either.... ....So.... -you really need a silence-able weapon for that--and of all the weapons the first-letter-guy in the OP has collected, only the Ruger 10/22 fits that bill...... and he asked about putting the NV scope on his .308. ------ This concern for "engaging enemies with NV equipment" is sadly misguided. Anyone so equipped is likely to be police or military--and you can't out-shoot them. They have more people, more equipment, and will surround you and then you're done for. The main way to "use" NV against the evil government would be to use the NV to spot the g-men coming up your driveway in the dark, and then you would run like hell without firing at all. In that case you need to get away before you are surrounded. -end-
Old poachers around here like a 410 they do something to the shell and shoot an arrow. I just know this as one old poacher when drinking wanted to buy my 410 and told me a little about poaching.

GSM/MM | 03-01-2009 12:29 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear BX3----gen2 with a nv capable eotech had crossed my mind, but then started thinking about mobility option to flip up goggles, transition to better equipped weapon optic and keep the damage under 2500frns. but, then again encounters will probably be under 75 yds. problem is this is unchartered territory and it could add up quick.

GSM/MM | 03-01-2009 12:38 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear also had concerns about cheek weld with goggles and mounting of the weapons optic all lining up without going bump in the night.

Bx3 | 03-01-2009 01:23 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear By the time you go with a Gen 2 tube and an Eotech you will be close if not slightly over your price target. Any head mounted NV system with a NV compatible Eotech is good out to 150 -200 yds which is plenty. Don't worry about alignment/cheek weld as the EOTech is parallax free. As long as you can superimpose your reticle onto the target, you don't have to have a solid supported firing stance/position. It all takes a little getting used to but once you go green (NV monochromatic color), you will never want to go dark again! 24/7 beats 12/7 every day of the week.:beer:

GSM/MM | 03-01-2009 01:47 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Bx3- cool, thanks. aways seems like i end up close to going slightly over the budget. any final recomendations on monoc, binoc, etc.?

Bx3 | 03-01-2009 02:01 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear http://www.tacticalnightvision.com/monocular.htm I have done some business with Victor and have never had any problems. His web site is also very informative so you can better educate yourself on the topic. He also Mods at an AR15 site (hint) on their NV board. I prefer the PVS 14 monocular set up because it is very light/compact and a single AA battery lasts for dozens of hours. I also like the fact that my other unaided eye can quickly adapt to a bright light situation if one should occur. Some people like the PVS 7s because you have an eye piece/image in front of both eyes but remember that 7s only have one tube unlike other binocular type units that actually have two tubes (one for each eye). Both the 7s and the binocular units increase weight plus the binos are usually twice the price. If you go with a monocular unit, you can also have a quick detach mount for your rifle so you can switch between your weapon and a head mount fairly quickly if thats something that you are still interested in.

Contento | 03-01-2009 03:24 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1600172) Night vision gear is fun to play with, but the main survivalist use for it in SHTF is for poaching at night. ,,,,,, And if you don't want to be seen (and people are close enough to SEE you) then you don't want to be heard either.... ....So.... -you really need a silence-able weapon for that--and of all the weapons the first-letter-guy in the OP has collected, only the Ruger 10/22 fits that bill...... and he asked about putting the NV scope on his .308. ------ This concern for "engaging enemies with NV equipment" is sadly misguided. Anyone so equipped is likely to be police or military--and you can't out-shoot them. They have more people, more equipment, and will surround you and then you're done for. The main way to "use" NV against the evil government would be to use the NV to spot the g-men coming up your driveway in the dark, and then you would run like hell without firing at all. In that case you need to get away before you are surrounded. -end-
Spot on. Also remember many NV systems take rare/expensive batteries. Take your 2-3thousand dollars for NV and spend it on extra ammo. Then eat more carrots!

Irons | 03-01-2009 09:09 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear I have a gen 1 bushnell, nothing fancy but works well.What made me pick this one over others is its totally waterproof and it floats.

Twisted Avatar | 03-01-2009 09:21 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Quote:
Originally Posted by Contento (Post 1600654) Spot on. Also remember many NV systems take rare/expensive batteries. Take your 2-3thousand dollars for NV and spend it on extra ammo. Then eat more carrots!
LMAO!!!!! You Da Man Conte!!!!

Irons | 03-01-2009 12:06 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Another thing to remember about NV is if you use the infra red anybody else with NV in the area will locate you like a spotlight, as they are the only others who can see it and they/you can see it for miles! Case in point, we go boating on a huge reservoir and fish walleyes at night and have fun with the NV when nothings biting. We can see the water cops out there using thier NV stuff checking out other boats before they actually go up to them. Well one boring night I thought it would be funny to light up the Police boat with my IR. The responce was immediate and they diden't think that was funny at all, they did everything but board my boat checking for beer bottles, life jackets fire extinguishers emergency flares throwable flotation devices etc. My advice: IF YOU HAVE NV DO NOT LIGHT UP THE COPS WITH YOUR IR!!!!

Bx3 | 03-01-2009 12:45 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Of course "BASICS" should come before any other optional equipment. Food, water, shelter, security (guns and stuff). Interestingly, I find that those who have NV fully understand the exponential capabilities (to include the few limitations) while the only ones who talk about flares, flashlights and carrots are those who do not have the capability. In short, the only ones who talk down NV (as if they would know) don't have it. Come to think about it, that same rule would seem to apply to body armor and suppressors as well. I'll let you all figure that one out. To each his own.

GSM/MM | 03-01-2009 04:57 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear i will thank Bx3 again. and it was a useful discussion for my purposes, so thankyou. why do some here assume i havent already covered the bases you have thrown out there.ammo-i have more than enough to ride out what is going on right now. you can only store so much food. body armor ---check in the box, already,etc.,etc.... so why cant i ask a helpful person about nvg's...

GSM/MM | 03-01-2009 05:00 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear when did AA's become rare.? hence asking questions and i do pay attention to what is powering these things.jeez

GSM/MM | 03-01-2009 05:18 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear i am a lucky guy. wifey wanted to get me nvg's for christmas. i asked her to hold off until i could do some research, so it been a while. in the mean time though i steared her towards his and hers level3a vests. so don't anyone assume there is an imbalance. not perfect, but not doing bad ,either.

Bx3 | 03-01-2009 05:33 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear It sounds like you are a lucky man on many fronts and a well prepared one as well. Everything we do to prep is nothing more than insurance. We hope we never need it but sleep better at night knowing it is there just in case. Besides, some gadgets are just damn fun to play with!:coolbeer:

GSM/MM | 03-01-2009 06:07 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear exactly... got tiller for my birthday,chose over another gun, cause i'm tired of working my "small" plot by hand. at least i will know where my carrots are coming from...later

Bill843 | 03-02-2009 08:55 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Quote:
Originally Posted by GSM/MM (Post 1601316) when did AA's become rare.? hence asking questions and i do pay attention to what is powering these things.jeez
Most of the ones I pondered buying did not use regular AA's, they used some variety of lithiums, 123's or whatever. I had decided on a D-300 but never ordered one. If you lived in the country already, it would be a lot more useful to have around because your home is immediately surrounded by lots of unlit ground....-but I live in town, and even in the suburbs there's usually not great cause for one. There ain't that much darkness to hide in. It'd be kind of like buying a 50BMG rifle--a fun toy yes, but it's expensive and I had a hard time seeing how it might realistically save my life, compared to a lot of other cheaper things. -end-

Bx3 | 03-02-2009 10:09 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1602341) .-but I live in town, and even in the suburbs there's usually not great cause for one. There ain't that much darkness to hide in. It'd be kind of like buying a 50BMG rifle--a fun toy yes, but it's expensive and I had a hard time seeing how it might realistically save my life, compared to a lot of other cheaper things. -end-
The folks in Katrina, the LA riots and countless other actual SHTF events would probably disagree.

Bill843 | 03-02-2009 06:13 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1602478) The folks in Katrina, the LA riots and countless other actual SHTF events would probably disagree.
In either of those two specific cases you mentioned, what was most valuable would have been a working vehicle to use to leave the area. The LA riots started on a Wednesday evening, and the power outage didn't occur until Friday evening. It is theorized that many people stayed in the riot area only because they had no transportation or money to get anywhere else (riots were near the end of the month, before welfare payments went out--and many people there did not own vehicles). In New Orleans--by the time the power went out, many of the major roads out of the city were already impassable to cars and a boat was the only way to effectively get around. In either case I don't understand what great value having an NV scope might have been. -end-

Matt-themaddog-Dollar | 03-02-2009 07:19 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Night vision would come in handy if you had to post guard over your property/store/etc at night. They mostly come out at night...mostly You Tube
You Tube

Twisted Avatar | 03-02-2009 08:40 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear ALIENS WAS ABSOLUTELY BAD@$$ THE BEST ONE EVER.

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Matt-themaddog-Dollar | 03-02-2009 09:40 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear And lucky for us, flamethrowers are NOT ILLEGAL! :ok:

Bx3 | 03-02-2009 11:21 PM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1603333) In either of those two specific cases you mentioned, what was most valuable would have been a working vehicle to use to leave the area. The LA riots started on a Wednesday evening, and the power outage didn't occur until Friday evening. It is theorized that many people stayed in the riot area only because they had no transportation or money to get anywhere else (riots were near the end of the month, before welfare payments went out--and many people there did not own vehicles). In New Orleans--by the time the power went out, many of the major roads out of the city were already impassable to cars and a boat was the only way to effectively get around. In either case I don't understand what great value having an NV scope might have been. -end-
Since you were not in either location, your opinion has no validity. Yes, I was in both. BTW, do you own any NV or is this just more speculation on your part? Good luck to you.

Bill843 | 03-03-2009 03:02 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1603971) Since you were not in either location, your opinion has no validity. Yes, I was in both.
How about the observation that lack of NV goggles didn't keep many people in both circumstances from robbing/looting/burning whatever they wanted to anyway? Quote:
BTW, do you own any NV or is this just more speculation on your part? Good luck to you.
I said I didn't own any. I don't own a GE minigun either, but I'd say (for a typical survivalist preparedness case) they're probably a waste of money too, and I don't worry too much about not having one. The few people I know of who do have NV didn't seem to really expect them to be useful in any defensive situation. They bought them just to play with occasionally--just like Irons said: "...we go boating on a huge reservoir and fish walleyes at night and have fun with the NV when nothings biting...". I tend to suspect that many "survivalists" simply collect tactical stuff, without a real clear idea of how they'll end up using it if the situation ever does get that desperate. The POLICE that Irons spoke of probably use their NV gear all the time--but then, that goes right back to another topic where I pointed out that a lot of equipment that works well for police and military teams is related to the offensive tactics that those teams of people use, and isn't nearly as useful to a single person trying to hold their ground. -end-

GSM/MM | 03-03-2009 03:24 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear NV is just another tool in the tool box. not everyone can afford every tool. you balance your needs and if you can afford it fine. if not fine. someone wants to come onto my property they're not necesarily gonna find me hold up in the house waiting, either. defensive doesnt always mean sitting on your can. would like the flexibility of taking advantage of ruining the other guys day first. the purpose of the op was seeking advice not a pissn contest.

honu5050 | 03-03-2009 03:33 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt-themaddog-Dollar (Post 1603774) And lucky for us, flamethrowers are NOT ILLEGAL! :ok:
A bright and final source o'light.:9536:

honu5050 | 03-03-2009 03:49 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear Quote:
Originally Posted by Igotyour6 (Post 1600032) mortar Illuminating round:23_31_2:course I am just kidding
them look like they work up lotta light. :shine: just kidin of course. :signs1:

koyaanisqatsi | 03-03-2009 04:59 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear I used to post on the survival threads, then I figured why? Same topics over and over, people argue with me, I've posted on this before but let me try again. Look at nature. Look at predator prey and night vision ability. Night Vision Cats give up the ability to see fine detail and rich colors in exchange for the ability to see in the dark. The level of retina illumination is about five times higher in your cat’s eye than in yours. And all those rods pooling signals from minute amounts of light allow the cat to pick up the faintest light source. Nonetheless, some light still manages to pass between the rods and cones. Instead of letting it be absorbed at the back of the eye, as the human eye does, the cat has a structure called the tapetum lucidum that reflects light back to the receptors for a second chance to create a signal. The eye shine you see when you shine a light at a cat in the dark is the reflected light that has managed to elude the receptors in both directions and is bouncing back to you from the tapetum. The end result is that cats can see light at eight times dimmer illumination than you can! In summary, the cat’s eye is specialized to see in dim and changing light. To achieve this it sacrifices the ability to focus close up, detail vision, and some color vision. It is the vision of a hunter active in both day and night, enabling it to detect movement under any lighting conditions, to use binocular vision to gauge distance, and to aim correctly to catch prey. http://www.cathealth.com/CatEyes.htm It absolutely amazes me how similar using night vision is to having a cat's eye. Cats use night vision to aquire prey, avoid detection and stalk invisibly. To anyone who REALLY cares about survival and not just feeling good for now, let me share how I feel about night vision for survival contingency ... Do YOU want to survive? Do animals want the be spared? Do animals want to kill? I say animals want to survive and in general NIGHT VISION is something mankind really needs in many real survival conditions. We are so less than naturally 'gifted' this way. Before fire we were screwed ... but predators today are drawn to your fire ... catch 22. In a total SHTF suvival situation, do you expect to be in a well lit condition? Is that because that's what you WISH FOR? Will a killer prowler or gang likely arrive by light? How many hours in a long night? Do bullets go through windows? Do you think you can light up the night? Light your home? Have you ever tried to walk a hilside up or down with no sight, blind? Across a stream or anything but smooth terrain? Walk through a jumbled building you've never visited in blackness of cover? Can you safely identify the neighbor's kid from a killer coming to visit? Can you tell a spade from a rifle? How bad is it to not see your target or threat or friend well, or at all, until you turn on a light? In a hostile area do you choose to walk by day? Think, deer, porcupinse, possums, raccoons, bears, cats, owls, flying squirrels, mice, etc ... they stir by night ... only the biggest and baddest, or fastest, or fleeting roam by day. In survival you are probably not one of those. Early man is said to have lived in a dark CAVE by night, smart with no night vision ... get it? Man is not nocturnal but the best hunters typically are. I once had a small Russian Elf-1 I really liked, a 1x with a 4x reflector and optional long-range IR illuminator. It was stolen from my home. Now I have a Night Owl NexGen 2X and I like it fine. Low power magnification is less disorting up close -- plus a dose of resourcefullness, 20 CR123A lithium batteries stored, should serve many or all of my potential needs. For a weapon I can just point a pistol while using a simple NV handheld in a pinch ... I'm not HUNTING but DEFENDING. I'd use the illuminator as minimally as possible... watch for IR lights approaching too ... periodic scans, if on sentry on2minutes /off10 minutes to save batteries... I draw the line at being ahead of maybe 96%+ in America who will only FEAR BOTH LIGHT AND DARK at night ... No need to spend more $ on my potential night needs ... I myself will seek the deepest darkness at night (if I must) thank you. Good luck to you! :bear_thumb: What can I say -- except a Generation 1 clearly exceeds a cat's best night vision. Cats do OK at 'suvival' ... Nature gave the cat and owl special gifts ... a REAL lifesaver. For me, I will not argue over my night vision, sutures, antibiotics, body armor, weapons, NBC mask, geiger counter, SW radio, flashlights, chlorine, food, etc on and on... but the best animals get by easily on little more than the better night vision alone... I know what I know... But you know I think like an animal and a man. :confused_ma::10_1_19: but i'm still learning

Bx3 | 03-03-2009 10:14 AM
Re: Advice on Night Vision Gear koyaanisqatsi, very well said. I have 16 years of REAL WORLD experience using NV/FLIR for both offensive and defensive operations. This is not a theory for me. I will no longer argue my point and justify the speculation, baseless opinions, I read somewhere and my friend has one and he says........ of some here. Fate favors those who help themselves. Good luck to the rest, they may soon need it.

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