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- - Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=293873)

platinumdude | 08-21-2008 04:36 PM
Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72906 Oklahoma police investigating the shooting deaths of two girls have told area residents with guns to bring them in for a test to determine whether they were used in the attack, sparking concern among those who own guns for hunting and self-defense. According to reports in the Tulsa World the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation sent letters to members of the community who were registered as owning .40-caliber handguns suggesting they voluntarily bring in their gun or guns for a test. The individuals who were "invited" to bring their guns in but didn't now will be included in the ongoing investigation, as well as people who were identified by former owners as having purchased that type of weapon recently, authorities said. "We'll be checking on them," Jessica Brown, a spokeswoman for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, told the newspaper. The investigation is into the June 8 shooting deaths of Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, and Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13, who died when they were shot several times on a road about four miles from Weleetka. Authorities say two guns were used in the killings, but they haven't released much information about the weapons until they now confirmed one was a .40-caliber. They have not yet identified the second type of weapon used. Authorities said they sent out about 60 letters, and about 40 gun owners voluntarily brought in their weapons to the Okfuskee County Courthouse at Okemah for testing over the weekend. Brown said those weapons were taken by investigators and test-fired, and the results of those tests now are being evaluated. She said nearly half a dozen former gun owners contacted authorities to identify new owners, and another 15 gun owners did not show up. Those who participated in a forum on the newspaper website expressed sympathy for the victims and their families, but worried about the maneuver of inspecting privately owned guns without a search warrant or probable cause. "This is a really sad story. My heart goes out to the families involved," said one participant. "For some reason, though, it bothers me that 60 gun owners were asked to 'voluntarily' relinquish their legally-owned firearms." Wrote a second, "Since when does Oklahoma have handgun registration? � I seriously hope they catch the vermin responsible for this, but I'm disturbed by the implication that Oklahoma, one of the most free states in the USA, has handgun registration." Another, identified only as ok sooner and who reported spending time in law enforcement, added, "I would never 'voluntarily submit their weapons for testing.' Get a warrant." "I'm with ok sooner," said a fourth. "I wouldn�t voluntarily submit my firearms to law enforcement without a warrant, either. This is really starting to bother me. Why ask 60 citizens to do this? Or maybe they're waiting for somebody to refuse to submit 'voluntarily' whereupon they do get a warrant." On the forums page for the Oklahoma Shooters Association, the readers were even more alarmed. "Why don't they just test fire all the .40 cal handguns in Oklahoma? Yeah, that's the ticket," said one person. "I hate to perhaps sound callous about the tragedy, that's not my intent at all, but this is some of the goofiest stuff I've ever heard of." "What the OSBI stupidly did was ensure that, if the real murderer still has the murder weapon and got one of these letters, he will now WITHOUT DOUBT destroy it POST HASTE," said another. "Human beings can only interact with one another through two methods: reason or force. If at any point, either party chooses force, the other must either submit or respond with force," warned another participant. "I prefer reason. But I am ready to respond with force. Submission is not an option." "The issue of private control of firearms in the United States has been a hot topic this year in light of the Washington, D.C., dispute over a complete ban on private handguns. In that case, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that individuals in the United States do have the right to bear arms, although that right can be regulated. The District of Columbia city council promptly adopted emergency legislation that would replace its handgun ban with a laundry list of regulations and requirements, including several described by the Gun Owners of America as equally unconstitutional to the ban. Those include a gun license requirement, a ban on semiautomatics, new ballistics requirements, requirements for trigger locks and requirements to keep guns unloaded. "It's no wonder that the District is awash with lawlessness. The contempt for the law starts in the city council chambers," said GOA Executive Director Larry Pratt. The Supreme Court ruling was the first definitive statement on the 2nd Amendment in decades. The court said, in Justice Antonin Scalia's majority opinion, the Constitution does not permit "the absolute prohibition of handguns held and used for self-defense in the home." Scalia was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas. Joining Justice John Paul Stevens in dissent were Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter. The amendment, ratified in 1791, says: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." My Comment. What stupid gun owners they are for complying with this nonsense.

Brent | 08-21-2008 04:45 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Guilty until proven innocent...shame on any gun owner who was stupid enough to bring their gun in.

platinumdude | 08-21-2008 04:52 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Where is Oklahoma getting the information from? http://www.bradycampaign.org/legisla...=ok#registrati REGISTRATION Are all guns registered with law enforcement? No No state requirement that gun owners register their firearms. Police do not know how many guns are in the state or where they are. The lack of registration data makes it more difficult for police to trace guns used in crime, identify illegal gun traffickers or hold gun owners accountable for their weapons. There is no state system to automatically identify and disarm felons and other prohibited people who bought guns legally in the past, but later committed a crime or otherwise became ineligible to keep possession of their firearms. EDIT: Also this RECORD KEEPING May police maintain gun sale records? No State law forbids police from keeping any record of gun sales. Police are prohibited from maintaining gun sale records that could be used for gun tracing and criminal investigations. The state has no way of knowing whether people who bought guns in the past have become criminals and are no longer allowed to possess firearms. The lack of gun sale records also makes it very difficult to identify and prosecute gun traffickers or gang members that buy guns in bulk and resell them on the street.

Big_Rob | 08-21-2008 05:01 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Whaddya all mean, come on now,,, Dont you know that the only way to help the police solve crimes is for everyone that owns that caliber to let the authorites test them out!!!! Jeeze, what are you people thinking! Dont you know that the police only have our best interests at heart and would NEVER do anything to infringe upon our 2nd amendment right??? Come on now,,,,, We all know that the 2nd amendment was only meant for the national guard we should even be allowed to see a firearm much less touch one.... :sarcasm: :tongue_ma::tongue_ma::tongue_ma::tongue_ma::tongu e_ma: HAW HAW!

budfox | 08-21-2008 05:02 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Anyone that registers their guns is a fool. These same things all took place in Pre Nazi Germany.

WilliamC | 08-21-2008 05:05 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' "A well educated electorate, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed" Of course the above means that only libraries should be allowed to keep books and that citizens can only read them at the library and not check them out, right? While I have no doubt that the police are trying to solve this heinous crime, I agree wtih an above poster that any perpetrator learning of this would immediately dispose of the gun used. My heart goes out to the familes of the girls and I hope the murderers are caught and given the death penalty.

Fullpower | 08-21-2008 05:14 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' When travelling to or from the library with books in possession, said books must be locked, so as to prohibit reading.

mtnman | 08-21-2008 05:17 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' This resident would say "F*ck you, get a warrant!" Too bad the sheep in Oklahoma are just that...Sheep.

FireMattMillen | 08-21-2008 05:23 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' This is alarming....they have records of handgun ownership in Oklahoma. I can only imagine that the records in a state such as California or NY are much more detailed. Furthermore, I expect that federal government records of long guns are also very detailed.

graspAU | 08-21-2008 05:32 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Quote:
Originally Posted by FireMattMillen (Post 1248721) This is alarming....they have records of handgun ownership in Oklahoma. I can only imagine that the records in a state such as California or NY are much more detailed. Furthermore, I expect that federal government records of long guns are also very detailed.
In MD, handguns and assault rifle purchases are registered. The only way you will have a chance to get one by on them is to have bought one before the laws changed in early to mid 90's. I've bought several handguns and assault rifles this year and they are all "registered". If I can't prove a sales transaction through an FFL (no private sales allowed) then I have got to be able to account for the gun. Now they are trying to make it a crime if you do not report a stolen gun within a certain time period. The loop holes (freedoms) are closing.

Brent H | 08-21-2008 05:43 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' "Don't Talk to the Police" by Professor James Duane &quot;Don't Talk to the Police&quot; by Professor James Duane
&quot;Don't Talk to the Police&quot; by Professor James Duane

the toxic avenger | 08-21-2008 05:55 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Law enforcement doesn't even pretend to follow the rule of law anymore. They do what they want, when they want and make up the rules as they go along. Some days I think I went to sleep and woke up in the old soviet union.

Twisted Avatar | 08-21-2008 06:33 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Quote:
Originally Posted by budfox (Post 1248676) Anyone that registers their guns is a fool. These same things all took place in Pre Nazi Germany.
Dam skippy ........ you wouldn't get jack shyt out of me WITH a warrant. what the hell makes you think I will 'cooperate' with out?? Sorry for the littel girls but LEO's can pound sand on "voluntary' compliance T

Twisted Avatar | 08-21-2008 06:38 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' "Human beings can only interact with one another through two methods: reason or force. If at any point, either party chooses force, the other must either submit or respond with force," "I prefer reason. But I am ready to respond with force. Submission is not an option." +9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999!!! T

Bx3 | 08-21-2008 07:12 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Without reading the whole article, it is possible that the information of caliber/ownership was obtained through CCW records. Just thinking out loud.

ajrocks | 08-21-2008 07:55 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' we just recieved the kids papers from the school, forgot about this, they have almost mandated fingerprinting the kids...makes no sense! seems like they are trying to get everyone's fingerprints so if/when there is a crime commited, regardless of what it is they have their record! Forward to story, if they get all the guns and get the ballisticts readings they will then know who has the gun when used for whatever reason!!!! Sneaky huh! Like the other thread said "Awareness is everything" oh it's TA!

Osaka | 08-21-2008 08:38 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' I don't blame the cops for trying. If people want to voluntarily bring in their possessions for inspection, it makes the cops' job easier. But I'd wait for a warrant before I gave them anything.

platinumdude | 08-21-2008 08:53 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' I read in a local oklahoma thread that they are not registered even though the paper called them that. They probably pulled the info from FFLs or that form you fill out when you buy. But what of those who sold their weapons (you do not report those)? and of those who bought privately. This is just plain stupid. As for me, I lost all mines long time ago during an unfortunate boating accident.

Tn...Andy | 08-21-2008 09:05 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1248903) Without reading the whole article, it is possible that the information of caliber/ownership was obtained through CCW records. Just thinking out loud.
Don't know about other States, but in Tennessee, your carry permit is not tied to any particular weapon.....

Bx3 | 08-21-2008 09:22 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Alabama was the same way but in Nevada, your make and caliber is printed on your card. No serial numbers though.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 08-21-2008 10:11 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1249058) Don't know about other States, but in Tennessee, your carry permit is not tied to any particular weapon.....
I have a CA CCW. Here, your choice of carry pieces is limited to three, and the S/N of each one must appear on your card for you to carry it concealed. You can't carry a weapon concealed unless it is on the card, although you can change the ones listed there at any time. I am told that shotguns can go on the card, but need to double-check to be sure. Of course, I've been to small towns up north in places like Fresno County and Madera County, where the locals carry openly and the Sheriff's deputies there drive and/or walk right past them and do nothing.

Bx3 | 08-21-2008 10:23 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' A Ca CCW is about as rare as a white elephant. Congratulations to you sir! You are one of the few.

goldbug | 08-21-2008 11:12 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' I hope they test the weapons the police carry also, privately or professionally, in addition to the other suspects. The whole world's weapons should be tested, that way they might solve the crime. Remember, we must learn to submitt and smile . . .

Portmanteau | 08-21-2008 11:31 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1249154) A Ca CCW is about as rare as a white elephant.
Perhaps in your county.

Bx3 | 08-22-2008 01:14 AM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' I left Ca a long time ago. While you are right about certain counties issuing CCWs, they are not in the majority.

Cassandra | 08-22-2008 01:39 AM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Did they really expect the murderer to show up at the PD, wait in line, and hand over the murder weapon voluntarily? Of course not. They must really think people are dumb if they expect people to step forward to do this in attempt to prove themselves innocent of this crime. Oh, wait...buncha people were dumb enough to do that. Gun owners at that. Yup. We're well and truly screwed.

Cassandra | 08-22-2008 01:42 AM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Quote:
Originally Posted by goldbug (Post 1249257) I hope they test the weapons the police carry also, privately or professionally, in addition to the other suspects. The whole world's weapons should be tested, that way they might solve the crime. Remember, we must learn to submitt and smile . . .
This was my first thought as well. .40 is cop caliber ammo in many places. They had better be testing their own.

Worldmariner | 08-22-2008 01:44 AM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Quote:
Originally Posted by the toxic avenger (Post 1248780) Law enforcement doesn't even pretend to follow the rule of law anymore. They do what they want, when they want and make up the rules as they go along. Some days I think I went to sleep and woke up in the old soviet union.
Thank Bush for that, and the ultra conservative supreme court appointees, and the LOADS of Fed money poured at state and local LE to hire more cops. Then again, his same appointees just expanded the 2nd amendment for us! :)

Worldmariner | 08-22-2008 01:49 AM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Quote:
Originally Posted by ajrocks (Post 1248951) we just recieved the kids papers from the school, forgot about this, they have almost mandated fingerprinting the kids...makes no sense! seems like they are trying to get everyone's fingerprints so if/when there is a crime commited, regardless of what it is they have their record! Forward to story, if they get all the guns and get the ballisticts readings they will then know who has the gun when used for whatever reason!!!! Sneaky huh! Like the other thread said "Awareness is everything" oh it's TA!
I just learned that it is standard practice is most hospitals now to automatically not only submit your child's paperwork for a SSN, but also take a DNA sample and submit it to the databank. I was APALLED when I learned that.

elroy | 08-22-2008 02:42 AM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' I would guess there is virtually no chance that a legally purchased and owned firearm was used in this crime. I heard about this case when it happened and I would guess the perpetrators are already convicted felons which makes it illegal for them to purchase or possess a firearm and they certainly don't have a CCW. Wait and see when this crime is solved.

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- - Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=293873)

Maximus | 08-22-2008 12:33 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' We do not have registration in Oklahoma... And there are sheep in every state. The records were pulled from the FFL transactions. And for the record, official registration does not exist in many states... But, a dealer who has an FFL license has to keep all 4473's (gun transaction information sheet) forever. If said dealer goes out of business, guess who the transaction forms get turned over to? If you said, "my friendly ATF organization!!!???" Than you are correct. So let me ask a question... Does gun registration really exist in a back alley/back door kind way?

platinumdude | 08-22-2008 12:47 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus (Post 1249902) We do not have registration in Oklahoma... And there are sheep in every state. The records were pulled from the FFL transactions. And for the record, official registration does not exist in many states... But, a dealer who has an FFL license has to keep all 4473's (gun transaction information sheet) forever. If said dealer goes out of business, guess who the transaction forms get turned over to? If you said, "my friendly ATF organization!!!???" Than you are correct. So let me ask a question... Does gun registration really exist in a back alley/back door kind way?
But I sold all my guns at the gun show. No, I didn't get their names.

Tn...Andy | 08-22-2008 12:56 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus (Post 1249902) And for the record, official registration does not exist in many states... But, a dealer who has an FFL license has to keep all 4473's (gun transaction information sheet) forever. If said dealer goes out of business, guess who the transaction forms get turned over to? If you said, "my friendly ATF organization!!!???" Than you are correct. So let me ask a question... Does gun registration really exist in a back alley/back door kind way?
I asked a little gun dealer that used to live down the road that very question...because I knew he was in failing health......what happens to the 4473's if you go out of business ? He said....."well, they are supposed to be turned over to the ATF......assuming nothing happened to them" and winked. He did go out of business a few years later, because his little wood shack out from his house that was his place of business burned down one night......fortunately, he was VERY low on inventory at that point in time.....one old single shot shotgun and a rusty .22 he had taken on trade years ago......so it was a minor loss to him. Unfortunately, all his records went up in the blaze. Damn shame.....but hey, what can you do ?

Silverstone | 08-22-2008 02:39 PM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' No way I'd take my guns in. This would be an easy frame up job on an innocent person that just happened to have the same type/make/model/ammo; no way. And police/investigators make mistakes and hypothetical assumptions on a frequent basis. Next thing you know it will be the "law" no warrants necessary. Watch. Getting worse every day.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 08-23-2008 04:27 AM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' One day soon, I fear, gun owners will be forced to choose: are these weapons only for sport, or are they tools to resist tyranny and oppression? If your guns are the former, you have no business owning them and should turn them all in. If your guns are the latter, make peace with your Maker and prepare to soon be in the company of long lost loved ones. Though precious few will resist, some will. There's a fight coming.

Twisted Avatar | 08-23-2008 06:54 AM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 1250909) Though precious few will resist, some will. There's a fight coming.
You can feel it in the air........... YouTube - In The Air Tonight Music Video
YouTube - In The Air Tonight Music Video

Tallships | 08-23-2008 09:26 AM
Re: Police tell owners: 'We're inspecting your guns' Another thing is that the shooter may be able to falsely clear his name by modifying the firing pin and/or changing the barrel and getting himself excluded by this firing test. Then the cops will be spinning their wheels alienating all the innocent folks while the shooter quietly disappears.

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