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TheNocturnalEgyptian | 05-02-2009 10:12 PM
.17 survival rifle? Looking for .17 survival rifle, easy/compact takedown a plus. I think this dictates that it be single-shot, but the more shots the better.

Ag_man | 05-02-2009 10:32 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Something like an AR-7? Why .17 cal, if I might ask?

BullionVince | 05-03-2009 01:03 AM
Re: .17 survival rifle? The very first suicide I had to go to was a guy who shot and killed himself with a .17 to the head. The troopers on the scene had swarn it was impossible but low and behold we all became believers. Some speculated the man probably had the bullet rattle around in his brain for a while before he finally let out his last breath. You can kill with a .17. Believe me I have seen it with my own eyes.:offtopic: :signs14:

teedub31 | 05-03-2009 12:29 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Due to the prevelance and low cost of a 22LR, I would turn my efforts there. Little if anything that a .17 can do, a 22LR can do just as well.

reviver | 05-03-2009 01:37 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Originally Posted by teedub31 (Post 1705934) Due to the prevelance and low cost of a 22LR, I would turn my efforts there. Little if anything that a .17 can do, a 22LR can do just as well.
While I agree with your first sentence, the second is wrong. Take for instance the 17 HMR. It has more than twice the power and speed of a 22LR. It is a necked down 22 mag, and will shoot flat to 150 yards. The 17 HMR if you do your part is an 1 MOA (100 yards) all day long. Problem today is 17 HMR is nearly impossible to find these days. http://www.chuckhawks.com/17HMR.htm

tulsamal | 05-03-2009 01:50 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Problem today is 17 HMR is nearly impossible to find these days.
If I was really going to "be serious" with a .17, I would go with some form of small case centerfire version. Then you can reload it. You can vary the power level to suit what you need. There is absolutely nothing that 17 HMR can do that you can't do just as well or better with a 17 K-Hornet. My personal favorite has long been the 17 Mach IV match barrel on a Contender or Encore action. With a rimfire you are going to have a dud every now and then. More as your storage time goes by. The system just isn't as reliable as centerfire. If you fire thousands of rounds every year, you notice that a .22 rimfire just doesn't go off every now and then. Far more than centerfire. The most important thing to me goes back to reloadibilty though. I can't imagine depending on a rifle which can only shoot factory loads. Once you run out, no more shooting. If you can reload a cartridge, you have a far better chance to keep it working over time. Gregg

reviver | 05-03-2009 02:26 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsamal (Post 1706019) If you can reload a cartridge, you have a far better chance to keep it working over time. Gregg
I agree 100%. Now try to find some primers...

tulsamal | 05-03-2009 02:52 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Now try to find some primers...
This too shall pass! I'm glad I have enough primers on hand that I don't need to pay the crazy prices right now. Some day the situation will normalize and I'll stock back up. I guess it is a lesson to all of us about how any missing piece can stop everything. Sometime in the future I'm going to purchase and set aside several years worth of primers. Then I won't ever have to worry about this nonsense again! Cases, I'll never run out. Bullets, I can cast. Even powder you could always resort to home made black powder. That would keep some guns going. But unless you want to go back to flintlocks, you have to have primers!! (I really should get a flintlock to play with one of these days!) Gregg

teedub31 | 05-03-2009 02:54 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Originally Posted by reviver (Post 1706008) While I agree with your first sentence, the second is wrong. Take for instance the 17 HMR. It has more than twice the power and speed of a 22LR. It is a necked down 22 mag, and will shoot flat to 150 yards. The 17 HMR if you do your part is an 1 MOA (100 yards) all day long. Problem today is 17 HMR is nearly impossible to find these days. http://www.chuckhawks.com/17HMR.htm
And I don't disagree with your assessment of longer range shooting. However, lets put into the light of a survival gun. What are you shooting at out at 150 yards??? It surely aint big game. YOu don't have asperations of it being for personal defense? Maybe knock off a coyote. So IMO it falls back to a 50 yard and under rifle that you will use as a tool to harvest small game and dispatch annoying critters like ground hogs and rats. Sure the .17 can do a few things better then a 22LR, but those instances where it will out shine a 22LR are rare occurances. For all practical daily uses in which you would need a small cal firearm, I still stand by my position that a 22LR will perform as well as a .17 in those situations. If you feel the need for long range shooting, buy a gun that is designed to shine in that area chambered in a 223.

reviver | 05-03-2009 03:19 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Originally Posted by teedub31 (Post 1706062) However, lets put into the light of a survival gun. What are you shooting at out at 150 yards??? It surely aint big game. YOu don't have asperations of it being for personal defense? Maybe knock off a coyote. A 17 at 100 yards 1 moa will kill even deer size and larger if you do your part. I remember a story of an indian woman who killed a huge grizzly bear with a single shot 22 rifle, albeit he was much closer than 100 yards. She shot him in the eye, the 22 entered the brain case and made mush of the brain. The 17 has much more power than the 22, and is a better round all around, and will kill at twice the distance of a 22. So IMO it falls back to a 50 yard and under rifle that you will use as a tool to harvest small game and dispatch annoying critters like ground hogs and rats. Sure the .17 can do a few things better then a 22LR, but those instances where it will out shine a 22LR are rare occurances. For all practical daily uses in which you would need a small cal firearm, I still stand by my position that a 22LR will perform as well as a .17 in those situations. If you feel the need for long range shooting, buy a gun that is designed to shine in that area chambered in a 223.
Sure you are correct given your parameters, but let me take it a little farther and state given your parameters a high power air rifle would meet your definition even better...

morganchaser | 05-03-2009 03:34 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? .17 is a toy. I love mine. It's a Savage with the thumbhole laminated stock. It's a tack driver, and a varmint butcher, but a toy. No SHTF application if you ask me. Ruger 10/22 and 100,000 rounds of .22 LR, is the beginning of a SHTF stash. RIMFIRE IS DILDOS SHTF UNLESS IT'S $.02 ROUND. What you lose in reloadability: you make up for in dirt cheapness. .17hmr doesn't have that perk. As far as reloading primers are concerned: If you don't already have a stash of primers from pre-SHTF, give up on reloading and spend your money on this: http://www.cva.com/rifles-electra.html http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=362775 Let no one say that "we had no way of knowing." The primer supply issue was being discussed long before 2008.

ImaCannin | 05-03-2009 04:47 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/images/36783.jpg Henry 11 + 1 17 HMR Lever Action Slick lever action and pretty too~ :rose::rose::rose::rose::rose:

ruprick | 05-03-2009 05:19 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? The 17 HMR is a lot more gun then a 22 LR......17 HMR = 250 ft-lbs of energy and can make very clean head shots out to about 150 yards. 22LR is a touch over 120 ft-lbs and is pretty effective out to 75 yards max.....you can make 100 yard shots...but not very well. On the www.17HMR.net there is a lot of experience shared....many head shot kills have been made on small hogs of about 100 lbs...and there is a guy that shoots kangaroos (70 lbs).....coyotes out at 100 yards....and these are not all head shots...quite a few shoulder shots. You need the 20 grain solid for this work. The 17 grain ballistic tip hollow points EXPLODE on contact....crazy wounds.....use only for head shots if you plan on eating the critter. In reality....22LR now costs about $0.04 each, with .17HMR now costing about $10/box on sale....and about $13 regular......about $0.20+/round......so won't be blazing away for fun too much.....I think of it as a highly accurate 150 yard killing machine on small game ....some medium game .....like a sniper rifle for pot meat. In a pinch, I'd take a deer in the hear out at 100 yards....and the key to the .17hrm....it can do it easily - very accurate rifle cartridge. A real nice step-up from a 22LR without busting out a full on centerfire rifle......for me, if I needed more than the .17HMR....next gun up would be a .223 Rem......then a 30.06.....

CrufflerJJ | 05-03-2009 06:09 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Originally Posted by morganchaser (Post 1706105) As far as reloading primers are concerned: If you don't already have a stash of primers from pre-SHTF, give up on reloading and spend your money on this: http://www.cva.com/rifles-electra.html http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=362775 Let no one say that "we had no way of knowing." The primer supply issue was being discussed long before 2008.
A modest $400-$500 for a battery powered black powder rifle. OUCH! That sounds a bit greedy. If it gets to that point, it might be better to go back to the flint lock style weapons.

Ag_man | 05-03-2009 08:52 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1706236) A modest $400-$500 for a battery powered black powder rifle. OUCH! That sounds a bit greedy. If it gets to that point, it might be better to go back to the flint lock style weapons.
It is a bit pricey for a black powder rifle, but I'd guess it would be much more reliable than a flintlock (been thinking about that as well).

Ag_man | 05-03-2009 08:56 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1706184) The 17 HMR is a lot more gun then a 22 LR......17 HMR = 250 ft-lbs of energy and can make very clean head shots out to about 150 yards. 22LR is a touch over 120 ft-lbs and is pretty effective out to 75 yards max.....you can make 100 yard shots...but not very well. On the www.17HMR.net there is a lot of experience shared....many head shot kills have been made on small hogs of about 100 lbs...and there is a guy that shoots kangaroos (70 lbs).....coyotes out at 100 yards....and these are not all head shots...quite a few shoulder shots. You need the 20 grain solid for this work. The 17 grain ballistic tip hollow points EXPLODE on contact....crazy wounds.....use only for head shots if you plan on eating the critter. In reality....22LR now costs about $0.04 each, with .17HMR now costing about $10/box on sale....and about $13 regular......about $0.20+/round......so won't be blazing away for fun too much.....I think of it as a highly accurate 150 yard killing machine on small game ....some medium game .....like a sniper rifle for pot meat. In a pinch, I'd take a deer in the hear out at 100 yards....and the key to the .17hrm....it can do it easily - very accurate rifle cartridge. A real nice step-up from a 22LR without busting out a full on centerfire rifle......for me, if I needed more than the .17HMR....next gun up would be a .223 Rem......then a 30.06.....
Thanks, Ru. I've always thought the .17 HMR, as a solution in search of a problem, but this has changed my thinking a bit. Question for anyone, if a guy was looking at a .17 HMR versus a .22 Mag, which way would you go?

St. Germain | 05-03-2009 10:53 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? .17 is a hot load and fun to shoot. It may be a bit to loud for low profile work.

ruprick | 05-03-2009 11:11 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 1706398) Thanks, Ru. I've always thought the .17 HMR, as a solution in search of a problem, but this has changed my thinking a bit. Question for anyone, if a guy was looking at a .17 HMR versus a .22 Mag, which way would you go?
I wanted a 17 HMR.....just cuz I wanted one.....and they are super accurate. Here is how I'll answer the 22 Mag vs 17 HMR: If you wanted to hunt medium game (about coyote size game) - then 22 Mag. If you are after fox and smaller.....then 17 HMR...... You can hund coyotes with 17 HMR.....but it is so light weight bulled....it really gives up the down range energy quickly.....the 22 Mag is 2X the projectile weight on the 17.....so lots more energy out past 100 yards....and the 22 Mag is fairly flat shooting...... 22 mag ammo is 50% the cost of 17..... New money to be spent....can only pick one.....I'd probably pick the 22 mag (yet I do not own one.....).

St. Germain | 05-03-2009 11:39 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? 1 Attachment(s) I chose the Savage Model 93R17 Classic. Fun with a scope. Still favor my 10\22 for plinking.

reviver | 05-04-2009 12:28 AM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1706589) New money to be spent....can only pick one.....I'd probably pick the 22 mag (yet I do not own one.....).
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/herrmes/bw01.jpg Alright, it's not a rifle... But it's a good use of the 22 mag...

St. Germain | 05-04-2009 12:39 AM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Originally Posted by reviver (Post 1706717) http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/herrmes/bw01.jpg Alright, it's not a rifle... But it's a good use of the 22 mag...
They make it in .17 as well. I believe they have gotten negative attention because of the potential to penetrate Kevlar vests at close range.

Bill843 | 05-04-2009 05:27 AM
Re: .17 survival rifle? There's not many rifles that break down survival-style at all. The AR-7 is probably the most famous in the US, but everyone I've heard who has ever owned one said it was lame as far as accuracy goes (and this, despite it being manufactured by 3 different companies over the last 30-odd years). Nobody would expect Olympic-level quality, but it is pretty disappointing apparently. ....I have also heard of people looking for higher-capacity mags for the AR-7, and the only ones I've ever heard of were made about 20 years ago. Marlin Papoose is another, in 22LR. There's two tube-fed semi autos that break down, a Browning and also a Norinco/Chinese copy of the same gun. Last is the Springfield Armory M6, which is a 22LR/410, and is really the only gun I'd consider a proper survival rifle. 22LR just ain't big enough for a lot of things. For that matter, a 410 ain't big enough for a lot of things either, but it's a heck of a lot more hit than a 22LR would be. Google indicates that the M6 is no longer listed on the SA website, and may be discontinued, but there are a lot of them used around. -end-

CrufflerJJ | 05-04-2009 07:57 AM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Germain (Post 1706733) They make it in .17 as well. I believe they have gotten negative attention because of the potential to penetrate Kevlar vests at close range.
How awful! Why would ANYBODY want to do such a thing?:sarc:

Ag_man | 05-04-2009 12:56 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1706914) There's not many rifles that break down survival-style at all. The AR-7 is probably the most famous in the US, but everyone I've heard who has ever owned one said it was lame as far as accuracy goes (and this, despite it being manufactured by 3 different companies over the last 30-odd years). Nobody would expect Olympic-level quality, but it is pretty disappointing apparently. ....I have also heard of people looking for higher-capacity mags for the AR-7, and the only ones I've ever heard of were made about 20 years ago. Marlin Papoose is another, in 22LR. There's two tube-fed semi autos that break down, a Browning and also a Norinco/Chinese copy of the same gun. Last is the Springfield Armory M6, which is a 22LR/410, and is really the only gun I'd consider a proper survival rifle. 22LR just ain't big enough for a lot of things. For that matter, a 410 ain't big enough for a lot of things either, but it's a heck of a lot more hit than a 22LR would be. Google indicates that the M6 is no longer listed on the SA website, and may be discontinued, but there are a lot of them used around. -end-
Did anyone make a "real" survival rifle, like a .30-06/12 ga combo? Sounds like a good idea to me.

St. Germain | 05-04-2009 01:00 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? Google Drilling Rifle. I have shot them (Krieghoff) and they are pretty cool. Argent Dragon, TA or one of our resident experts would probably have more info. http://www.drillinghotline.com/ ST

tulsamal | 05-04-2009 06:31 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? For decades Savage made some very tough little over under utility rifles. The upper barrels started out at .22 LR and the lower barrel started at .410. As the years went by Savage ordered larger and larger options. I think the upper barrel got as large as 30-30 and you could get the lower barrel in 12 gauge. I saw a lot of those guns on working farms when I was growing up. They weren't pretty but people who used guns around a ranch as a tool appreciated them. I'm sure there are scads of them in pawn shops and online. Gregg

tulsamal | 05-04-2009 06:34 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? They looked like this: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=128168694 Gregg

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 05-05-2009 06:42 PM
Re: .17 survival rifle? I appreciate the good replies, I do own a 10/22 in .22LR and it is fun to shoot. I've seen a lot of people speaking very highly of the .17 round and I figured that if I was going to get something that was a take-down rifle, I might want something that could go a better distance and pack some more OOmmfph. Good point about .22 being loads cheaper, and .17HMR being more accurate at longer distances. I appreciate the comment about a high quality air rifle, that's not a bad suggestion at all. I also appreciate the combo guns, I knew those existed but I've never seen pictures before.... 30-30 & 20ga. sounds pretty great.

Flinch | 05-07-2009 09:29 AM
Re: .17 survival rifle? From what I've see if you are aerious about using a .17 use the .17 fireball I know a 'yote hunter who uses this in a Remington 700. Its very effective with little pelt damage.

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