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- - Sub 2000 (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=431336)

Mongrel | 12-11-2009 02:50 PM
Sub 2000 Was thinking of getting a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 since it would use the same Glock 33 round mags as my pistol. Already have a Kel-Tec PLR22 and love it. Anybody with some playtime or advice on the Sub? thanks much, just joined !!!:banana:

Mongrel | 12-12-2009 08:32 PM
Re: Sub 2000 What? No takers for a newbie?

ruprick | 12-12-2009 08:36 PM
Re: Sub 2000 I got one in 9mm....same reason as you....mine uses Glock mags. I love it....delivers 9mm pistol muzzle energy at 100 yards. Fun and compact. I like the idea of a 33 shot carbine that fits into a laptop bag. Get one while you can find them. You can't have too many guns.

Mongrel | 12-12-2009 11:19 PM
Re: Sub 2000 Thanks Ruprick!! Great to know someone has same views!! Will order one this week for about 390 from local dealer, Gunbroker in 9mm is hard to find. Anyone else have one of these?

Libertytree | 12-12-2009 11:23 PM
Re: Sub 2000 I just picked mine up today, yeehaw! Now is a really good time to talk to a dealer, as I found out there are limited production runs and aren't readily available throughout the year. I just got lucky I guess, because mine came in a week after putting in my request. The 33 round mags are an absolute must, $25 apiece. Sorry, I haven't got to shoot it yet but I can say that I researched it extensively with overwhelming high marks.

TTAZZMAN | 12-12-2009 11:34 PM
Re: Sub 2000 they are a "Fun" gun......definitely ammo eaters...... i call them a fun gun because ......what real use do they have that you wouldnt be better served with a different gun. but they are a blast to shoot just my opinon of course

Mongrel | 12-12-2009 11:35 PM
Re: Sub 2000 Liberty, Nice!! Hope to get one soon, I think these are really overlooked and will be invaluable when SHTF, I like the aspect of stocking up on the same ammo for my G19 and a rifle carbine type too!! thanks let us know how you like shooting it!!

Libertytree | 12-13-2009 12:07 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Mine was $450 out the door, in case you wanted a comparison. For the money and for a gun that to me is a multi-use gun it's a bargain and a half. I've got the Glock 19 version and I dig having the same ammo/mags for both pieces.

Iptuous | 12-13-2009 12:12 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 2072941) i call them a fun gun because ......what real use do they have that you wouldnt be better served with a different gun.
weeeell. let's see. say you have a pistol that you use for concealed carry. you have it on you all the time. if you stick one of these in your truck, then you have a carbine at your disposal. if you are in a situation where you would be better served by the increased accuracy and distance of a shoulder fired weapon (when wouldn't you be, honestly?), then you can whip it out and use it. with the ammunition and magazine that is in your pistol. the alternative would be to carry a full rifle with ammo in your truck. maybe some people don't want to have a rifle with ammo in their truck because they see it as a liability for one reason or another.

TTAZZMAN | 12-13-2009 12:27 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 2072999) weeeell. let's see. say you have a pistol that you use for concealed carry. you have it on you all the time. if you stick one of these in your truck, then you have a carbine at your disposal. if you are in a situation where you would be better served by the increased accuracy and distance of a shoulder fired weapon (when wouldn't you be, honestly?), then you can whip it out and use it. with the ammunition and magazine that is in your pistol. the alternative would be to carry a full rifle with ammo in your truck. maybe some people don't want to have a rifle with ammo in their truck because they see it as a liability for one reason or another.
welllllll lets see........if your in a situation where you need or can use a carbine do you really want a 9mm...... NOT I.....i would want a AK ...or ...AR....or something with real penetrating firepower 9mm is a great pistol rnd......and i own tons of these "FUN" guns.....but i wouldnt want to be in any sort of rifle fight and be the one with a 9mm while others had real rifle rnds. personally the only place i can see for this gun in real world other than fun is in a MP5 type role ...short gun...low penetration...high capacity....confined space enty gun...and even in that role something like a calico m900 or m950 with 100rnd clips would be superior. like i said its my opinion that ..."what real use do they have that you wouldnt be better served with a different gun" interchangeable mags and ammo is a convience of course and it folds up nicely etc ...but 9mm has very limited capabilities as a carbine cartrige.....convience is not what i want in a real world situation .....i want overpowering firepower if i can get it... all that being said ....i have several of these 9mm carbine "fun" guns and love to shoot them .....AT THE RANGE....

Iptuous | 12-13-2009 12:31 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 2073020) like i said its my opinion that ..."what real use do they have that you wouldnt be better served with a different gun"
Sure. it'd be better to have a full sized rifle. but you asked for a circumstance and i that's one that comes to mind. I was kind of considering doing just that. the alternative course of having a full sized battle rifle with ammunition stashed in your truck.... Is that what you do? Do you leave it there all the time?

TTAZZMAN | 12-13-2009 01:43 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 2073023) Sure. it'd be better to have a full sized rifle. but you asked for a circumstance and i that's one that comes to mind. I was kind of considering doing just that. the alternative course of having a full sized battle rifle with ammunition stashed in your truck.... Is that what you do? Do you leave it there all the time?
i carry my AR pistol in my truck....in every way it would out perform the Keltec 9mm.......its smaller...lighter...more accurate...more range...more firepower...etc... I personally CC either a Kahr PM9 or a Ruger sp101 357 I vehicle carry a AR pistol and sometimes a 870 pump if i need a gun and i am close to the vehicle i want to get to more firepower than 9mm.......the 9mm is just to get me to the vehicle to either fight or escape.... to me.....CC gun has a much different purpose than a vehicle carry gun...to me ammo interchangeability at the 9mm level is a liability rather than a asset...to me it would be a convienance that might lure me into thinking i had real firepower when in fact i would be woefully under powered.

morganchaser | 12-13-2009 03:05 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 2073074) i carry my AR pistol in my truck....in every way it would out perform the Keltec 9mm.......its smaller...lighter...more accurate...more range...more firepower...etc... I personally CC either a Kahr PM9 or a Ruger sp101 357 I vehicle carry a AR pistol and sometimes a 870 pump if i need a gun and i am close to the vehicle i want to get to more firepower than 9mm.......the 9mm is just to get me to the vehicle to either fight or escape.... to me.....CC gun has a much different purpose than a vehicle carry gun...to me ammo interchangeability at the 9mm level is a liability rather than a asset...to me it would be a convienance that might lure me into thinking i had real firepower when in fact i would be woefully under powered.
How do you shoulder an AR15 pistol? Do you have an SBR stamp? Folding stock AK-47 for me. You'll want the rust resistance in a trunk, and you'll want the penetration in urban combat. Make it a WASR with plastic furnature so you don't care if it get's dinged up.

rad | 12-13-2009 09:35 AM
Re: Sub 2000 1 Attachment(s) My favorite from Keltec: The PLR-16 is a gas operated, semi-automatic pistol chambered in 5.56 mm NATO caliber. It was designed as and is intended as a long-range target and hunting pistol. The PLR-16 has a conventional gas piston operation and utilizes the proven M-16 breech locking system. The rear sight is adjustable for windage. The front sight is of M-16 type. An integrated MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny rail will accept a multitude of standard accessories. The muzzle end of the barrel is threaded 1/2� -28 to accept standard attachments such as a muzzle brake. Except for the barrel, bolt, sights, and mechanism, the PLR-16 pistol is made entirely of high-impact glass fiber reinforced polymer. The PLR-16 pistol comes blued, with one 10 round magazine (fully AR15/M16 magazine compatible), and includes a gunlock. Technical Specifications Caliber: .223 rem 5.56mm NATO Weight unloaded (no magazine): 51 oz 1450 g Length: 18.5" 470 mm Barrel length: 9.2" 234 mm Sight radius: 12.5" 318 mm Muzzle velocity (M193) 2600 fps 800 m/s Magazine capacity: 10 rounds, or M-16 compatible Safety Ambidextrous pushbolt Optional accessories will include: Under-picatinny forend, scope rings, dynamic deflecting operating handle, single point sling, and a muzzle brake specifically design for the 9.2" barrel of the PLR-16. Accessories shown below are not included. It even takes 100 round beta magazines.

ruprick | 12-13-2009 09:54 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 2073020) welllllll lets see........if your in a situation where you need or can use a carbine do you really want a 9mm...... NOT I.....i would want a AK ...or ...AR....or something with real penetrating firepower 9mm is a great pistol rnd......and i own tons of these "FUN" guns.....but i wouldnt want to be in any sort of rifle fight and be the one with a 9mm while others had real rifle rnds. personally the only place i can see for this gun in real world other than fun is in a MP5 type role ...short gun...low penetration...high capacity....confined space enty gun...and even in that role something like a calico m900 or m950 with 100rnd clips would be superior. like i said its my opinion that ..."what real use do they have that you wouldnt be better served with a different gun" interchangeable mags and ammo is a convience of course and it folds up nicely etc ...but 9mm has very limited capabilities as a carbine cartrige.....convience is not what i want in a real world situation .....i want overpowering firepower if i can get it... all that being said ....i have several of these 9mm carbine "fun" guns and love to shoot them .....AT THE RANGE....
Can you carry your AR/AK into the office in your Dell Laptop bag? How about down the street in your city? Also - you dont want me plinking at you at 100 yards with this thing.....fills a pie plate all day at 100 yards. Very effective 100 yard weapon. 400 ft-lb +P 9mm hollow points raining in on you from a 33 round mag a football field away -----that was just pulled out of a Dell computer bag......nothing else in the world can do this.......it is the only gun in existance that has this capability. Kel-Tec also makes some fold in half .223 carbines......not quite Laptop Bag in size...but very close....I might have to get one of those as well.....but the 9mm mags (or 40S&W) that work in my pistol is what closed the deal for me.

rad | 12-13-2009 10:16 AM
Re: Sub 2000 2 Attachment(s) The PS90 will break down into two pieces that will fit in a 17 inch laptop case. Just the 2 and the 6 and 50 round magazines. 1 and 5 are innards that go in 6 and 3 goes on the back of 6. They do cost a lot though.

sindgefallen | 12-13-2009 10:22 AM
Re: Sub 2000 KELTEC PLR-16 is a GD joke. My brother in law bought one a few months ago on a sale and first time out at the range with less than a hundred rounds through it the receiver broke at the top rear where the bolt energy concentrates on recoil. The weapon split in half and hung by the front retaining pin! He was hit in the face by some powder and plastic but luckily no brass shrap. HUGE POS! IMO

rad | 12-13-2009 10:56 AM
Re: Sub 2000 I am sorry to hear about the failure. The two I have have been working OK.

maximumrebel1 | 12-13-2009 11:54 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by sindgefallen (Post 2073319) KELTEC PLR-16 is a GD joke. My brother in law bought one a few months ago on a sale and first time out at the range with less than a hundred rounds through it the receiver broke at the top rear where the bolt energy concentrates on recoil. The weapon split in half and hung by the front retaining pin! He was hit in the face by some powder and plastic but luckily no brass shrap. HUGE POS! IMO
Good thing they have a lifetime warranty. I have 2 Kel Tec's and both of them have been flawless. If they made the Sub 2000 to accept Glock 21 mags (and if they made a reliable hi cap mag like the 33 rounder) I would pick one up in a heartbeat. As it is I'm thinking about going with the SU 22 next.

TTAZZMAN | 12-13-2009 01:03 PM
Re: Sub 2000 Morganchaser Pistols do not require SBR stamps Some people use the buffer tube as a shoulder rest, some AR pistols dont have the buffer tube I 100% agree a AK would be a great way to go as stated in one of my earlier posts...the point was there are many better options than a Sub 2000 Rupric My sub 2000 will fit in the same brief case as my AR pistol with about the same ammo, they both fit tight in my 12" X 16" standard size hard side brief case I am well aware a 9mm rifle of most any type can fill a pie plate at 100yds the AR pistol can do the same thing at 200yds or more Sindgefallen I also own a PLR-16 .......and it is much less of a joke than a sub 2000 in my opinion i havent logged the rnds but at least 1k and no issues for me if i were gona take a 9mm carbine to a fight it would be my calico m900 folding stock To me the sub 2000 is a blast to shoot but is a weapon of convience and compromize my opinion of course

Mongrel | 12-13-2009 09:03 PM
Re: Sub 2000 Thanks for all your help guys, I'm pretty much a noob with guns but I don't think I'll be trying to shoot stuff 200 yrds away, just looking to protect my perimeter with my Winchester Ranger law enforcement RA9T and RA9124TP 9mm rounds! thanks for the info, will order my Sub 2000 this week!! bancha

TTAZZMAN | 12-14-2009 01:05 AM
Re: Sub 2000 we do have a lot of fun talking guns around here...... what part of show-me-state are you from?

shades2 | 12-14-2009 04:20 AM
Re: Sub 2000 I didn't know much about Kel-Tec before reading this forum. I had to go and research them. I like looking into a company's manufacturing process and how much attention to detail they do for their products. I know they're very well known in the US, but I was oblivious of them as a major manufacturer, apart from knowing they made handguns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec

Mongrel | 12-14-2009 05:32 AM
Re: Sub 2000 TAZZ, I'm in KC area

Shoden | 12-14-2009 07:44 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Since you're in the KC area, you should check out the Bullet Hole in Overland Park. A friend of mine bought a new 9mm Glock mag Sub2k there for $325 last month, and they had several in stock. I'm thinking about picking up a second one at that price, since I paid more than that for a used one last year, and it has some issues.

MISRy | 12-14-2009 09:08 AM
Re: Sub 2000 If his drivers license is from the MO side won't he still have to have it transfered to a MO FFL?

Mongrel | 12-14-2009 09:31 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Great news Shoden!! I will call them and find out if they got them and procedures!! Thanks mucho!! Always good to save some dough for the stash!!

Shoden | 12-14-2009 10:04 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by MISRy (Post 2074766) If his drivers license is from the MO side won't he still have to have it transfered to a MO FFL?
I'm pretty sure that only applies to handguns. Rifles can be sold to anyone with a driver's license from a neighboring state. The friend I mentioned lives in MO.

mick silver | 12-14-2009 10:24 AM
Re: Sub 2000 http://www.gunblast.com/Kel-Tec_Sub2000.htm

TTAZZMAN | 12-14-2009 12:03 PM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongrel (Post 2074643) TAZZ, I'm in KC area
SWMO area here.....if you were close i had some gun shop subjestions for this area

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Mongrel | 12-17-2009 06:14 PM
Re: Sub 2000 Waited to see if Bullet Hole in OP,KS could come up with one around 350, but as of today they couldn't so I ordered one from Jacosupply in Grandview for 390!! Should be here early next week!! Looking forward!! thanks guys for all advise! :36_3_16:

<SLV> | 12-17-2009 07:07 PM
Re: Sub 2000 I had one in 9mm with Glock mags. I attached velcro to the side of one 33 rd. stick and stuck it under the front hand guard. I ended up selling it because it spit in my face (I'm a lefty). I got a Calico Liberty M950 pistol with a pair of 100 round helical drum mags instead. ;) Bottom ejecting and excellent brass catcher - don't want to leave any brass behind.

TTAZZMAN | 12-17-2009 10:42 PM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2081791) I had one in 9mm with Glock mags. I attached velcro to the side of one 33 rd. stick and stuck it under the front hand guard. I ended up selling it because it spit in my face (I'm a lefty). I got a Calico Liberty M950 pistol with a pair of 100 round helical drum mags instead. ;) Bottom ejecting and excellent brass catcher - don't want to leave any brass behind.
calico...amazing guns....years ahead of their time...still inovative

<SLV> | 12-17-2009 11:30 PM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 2082123) calico...amazing guns....years ahead of their time...still inovative
I LOVE mine. No muzzle rise due to excellent ergonomics and balance. The 100 rd. magazine can be shouldered with the pistol, but you have to use a laser sight.

obilly | 12-18-2009 09:32 AM
Re: Sub 2000 lifetime warranty,,,,ha,,,,,,my keltec p3at is going to be in the shop for 18 weeks,,,,,,jammed 1st time every time,,,,,lifetime warranty means nothing when turn around is 18 weeks,,,,,kel-tec is not interested in servicing what they sell,,,,,try calling the help line,,,,they are not interested in anything you have to say,,,,no you are not doing something wrong,,,5% of all of are guns are defective,,,,just pack it up and send it back,,,,i would think twice about another keltec product. the reviews on the sub2000 at http://www.gunslot.com/ list the same issues over and over ,,,,,it appears to have a trigger issue? lifetime -18 weeks is not lifetime don't expect a response from your e-mail either

Libertytree | 01-19-2010 07:33 PM
Re: Sub 2000 Finally got to take my new Sub 2K (9mm Glock) to the range today for its virgin run. Ran through a couple hundred rounds w/o a flaw and got it sited in up to about 50yds, until it got too dark. I really enjoyed the feel of it and is accurate for the purposes I bought it for. I additionally like the fact that the mags are interchangeable with my Glock 19 pistol. It's also cool to have a few of the 31 round mags to go along with'em. Good gun for the $$$ and the purpose.

dimitri | 01-20-2010 01:09 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by obilly (Post 2082630) lifetime warranty,,,,ha,,,,,,my keltec p3at is going to be in the shop for 18 weeks,,,,,,jammed 1st time every time,,,,,lifetime warranty means nothing when turn around is 18 weeks,,,,,kel-tec is not interested in servicing what they sell,,,,,try calling the help line,,,,they are not interested in anything you have to say,,,,no you are not doing something wrong,,,5% of all of are guns are defective,,,,just pack it up and send it back,,,,i would think twice about another keltec product. the reviews on the sub2000 at http://www.gunslot.com/ list the same issues over and over ,,,,,it appears to have a trigger issue? lifetime -18 weeks is not lifetime don't expect a response from your e-mail either
Unfortunately I cannot find one in shops or online. I think the demand is causing a shortage that might also contribute to the large turnaround time on replacing a part.

luft97 | 01-20-2010 03:04 AM
Re: Sub 2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by rad (Post 2073270) My favorite from Keltec: [FONT=georgia][B][SIZE=3]The PLR-16 is a gas operated, semi-automatic pistol chambered in 5.56 mm NATO caliber....
Take it from someone who has owned one, the PLR-16 is garbage. They are very picky with mags. I had to manually cycle the action for it to pick up the next round.. Sure I could have tried modifying my mags, but I decided to dump it. I found the sig 556P to be very reliable, and the added bonus of being able to easily screw in an M4 stock (with the correct paperwork and tax stamp from the ATF of course if you so desired) and make it an SBR is handy. http://www.luxurytoys.biz/Ebay/Dscf3328.jpg As far as the SUB2000 they are great. I have a 9mm that takes glock mags and I love it. The trigger isn't so great, but it goes boom every time I have shot it so I can't complain.

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