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- - Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=308603)

SkinnyMoose | 10-03-2008 11:41 AM
Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset What do you think? I own a business and was thinking about buying a gun through my business as an asset... Is this sound?? Will the IRS freak??

SLV>GLD | 10-03-2008 11:45 AM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset I run a commercial gourmet mushroom farm. Squirrels and other varmint can put a real hurting on a crop. 1000fps balls of brass put a real hurting on varmints. I'd have opted for something bigger than a BB if I weren't in city limits but really anything more is overkill. That purchase was a legitimate business asset and you bet I deducted it and depreciate it. If I'd been outside city limits I'd have swung for a Remington 10/22 but had I been a GIM'er at the time I likely would have opted for something pushing the .223 caliber. I suspect an AK or 30-06 or something big might be pushing the IRS a bit too far. Edit: BTW, the bigger, nastier varmints make it into my live trap, which was also deducted.

mayhem | 10-03-2008 11:45 AM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Rather grand idea....better yet would be to buy it through a trust.

SkinnyMoose | 10-03-2008 11:50 AM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset My business has nothing to do with guns. Can I still buy one and just not deduct it?? How do trusts work??

S_Goldberg | 10-03-2008 12:27 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Quote:
My business has nothing to do with guns. Can I still buy one and just not deduct it??
Not unless you want an audit and potentially more trouble. Trusts are for leaving assets behind for surviving family....and tax evaders and money launderers.

SkinnyMoose | 10-03-2008 12:46 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset So if I own a hunting, fishing, and outdoor online magazine and media company, can I legally buy a firearm for the business?? That's all I am asking?

Cassius | 10-03-2008 01:25 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Whether something is deductible as a business expense depends on the purpose for which you're going to use it, not on the actual details of what the thing IS. For example, you can buy an automobile and deduct it (or depreciate it) if it is going to be used only for the business. It doesn't matter if you buy your business a Honda Civic or a Hummer or a Dodge Viper. WHAT YOU USE IT FOR is what determines the legitimacy of the expense, not what it is. Similarly, if you are going to use the firearm EXCLUSIVELY for the business, you can buy a Glock or an AK-47 or a Sherman Tank if you could find one for sale -- as long as it is used for the business and not for personal use.

Darkside | 10-03-2008 01:38 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassius (Post 1330753) Whether something is deductible as a business expense depends on the purpose for which you're going to use it, not on the actual details of what the thing IS. For example, you can buy an automobile and deduct it (or depreciate it) if it is going to be used only for the business. It doesn't matter if you buy your business a Honda Civic or a Hummer or a Dodge Viper. WHAT YOU USE IT FOR is what determines the legitimacy of the expense, not what it is. Similarly, if you are going to use the firearm EXCLUSIVELY for the business, you can buy a Glock or an AK-47 or a Sherman Tank if you could find one for sale -- as long as it is used for the business and not for personal use.
That is only for buying things through your business which you plan to deduct, right? But can't you still buy almost anything you want with business money and not try to deduct their costs from your business tax?

Cassius | 10-03-2008 01:44 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset That is correct. If you are not planning to use it as a deduction, you can buy absolutely anything you want with business funds. It is YOUR business and you are in control. You can donate all your business money to Breast Cancer Awareness if you want, or you can use all your business money to buy twinkies if you want. You just can't deduct it as a legitimate business expense, so you will have to pay taxes on the money that is spent as if it were profit/income (which it is).

Fullpower | 10-03-2008 01:52 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset If you are talking about a piece of shop security equipment, that would certainly be a business expense. The shotgun under the counter? No different than the emergency backup generator, or the fire extinguisher on the wall. *Please note that I am NOT a tax professional, and am in NO way qualified to give any legal, financial, medical,marital, mental health, or nutritional advice.*

boogietillyapuke | 10-03-2008 02:40 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 1330593) Trusts are for leaving assets behind for surviving family....and tax evaders and money launderers.
....you left out people that want to own Class III with out having to ask Andy of Mayberry for his signature/permission to own this type of weapons. :s9:

gangsta99 | 10-03-2008 02:42 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Quote:
Originally Posted by boogietillyapuke (Post 1330985) ....you left out people that want to own Class III with out having to ask Andy of Mayberry for his signature/permission to own this type of weapons. :s9:
I am actually interested in this. How much does it cost to setup a trust for this reason and what are some rough prices on Class III weapons these days??

TTAZZMAN | 10-03-2008 04:44 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyMoose (Post 1330642) So if I own a hunting, fishing, and outdoor online magazine and media company, can I legally buy a firearm for the business?? That's all I am asking?
I own several companys... guns/ammo have been purchased through the companys for many differing reasons (all of which are legitimate) IE...security ......customer gifts ......tools ......incentives ......charitable donations we take customers/employees on outings (just like playing golf) we will go on pheasent hunts...skeet shoots...etc..you name it....where we sometimes provide guns..ammo..licsenses...transportation...food..etc . some items are written off as a entertainment expense...some items are depreciated...some items are held at assett value... being tax creative isnt against the law but a person needs to know and have a plausable reason for ANY purchase for a business if audited and be prepared to explain if audited, to the IRS legitimate errors in grey area judgement are fixable, abuse and fraud carry finacial and incarceration penatys, if your audited guns would not be the only thing they would look at. as always consult a CPA before jumping in over your head

bwelkk | 10-03-2008 05:27 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassius (Post 1330753) Similarly, if you are going to use the firearm EXCLUSIVELY for the business, you can buy a Glock or an AK-47 or a Sherman Tank if you could find one for sale -- as long as it is used for the business and not for personal use.
Possible loophole: Your "business" is firearms rentals. Your chief customer (only customer) is yourself. You keep good logs of where/when and for how long you use each of your guns. You pay yourself an appropriate rent ($80 000/ hr just to keep out the riff raff :wink:) and then you, as the proprietor of the business pay yourself back whatever the business makes.

mattymo365 | 10-03-2008 05:56 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Quote:
Originally Posted by bwelkk (Post 1331443) Possible loophole: Your "business" is firearms rentals. Your chief customer (only customer) is yourself. You keep good logs of where/when and for how long you use each of your guns. You pay yourself an appropriate rent ($80 000/ hr just to keep out the riff raff :wink:) and then you, as the proprietor of the business pay yourself back whatever the business makes.
Try telling that to an IRS agent with a straight face. That's just total BS, and will be thrown out in a heartbeat. I mean, if you're going to lie, why not claim that you bought a computer or machinery for your business, when it was actually a gun? They're both lies, it's just a matter of which one is more bold.

Lucky225 | 10-03-2008 07:16 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset lies = color of law color of law is the fundamental basis of the IRS. beat them at their own game! Very creative also +1

sliver | 10-03-2008 08:54 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset sounds like a security system to me

igorthesmall | 10-03-2008 09:45 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset I am an accountant and am currently studying for the CPA exam (passed one out of 4 sections) If you are going to be using the gun 100% for business reasons, then you can buy it and either expense or depreciate it. If you are going to be using it for personal use, then buying a gun and trying to deduct it from your business is a total waste of time. If you ever got audited, none of those crazy schemes (renting it to yourself, putting it into a trust, etc.) are going to fly. If you really want to buy a gun for personal reasons and get out of paying a few bucks in tax, just pretend that your business bought some equipment and if you got audited tell them you lost the receipt or something. Either way you are technically cheating on your taxes, but getting caught trying to rent a gun to yourself is an easy case of filing a fraudulent return. Your prize will be that the IRS will be going over all your tax returns for years with a fine tooth comb. Save yourself the hassle.

Worldmariner | 10-05-2008 11:55 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyMoose (Post 1330526) My business has nothing to do with guns. Can I still buy one and just not deduct it?? How do trusts work??
Hmm... He might be able to write it off as an expense. Maybe include it in miscellaneous expenses as "Model XX" and the cost, forget about depreciating it. Farmers can do it. a few hundred, maybe, but a brand new $1800 Weatherby might be hard to justify.

Worldmariner | 10-06-2008 12:03 AM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Quote:
Originally Posted by gangsta99 (Post 1330991) I am actually interested in this. How much does it cost to setup a trust for this reason and what are some rough prices on Class III weapons these days??
I just paid "about" $400 with an attorney here in FL that is experienced in ClassIII trusts.

SkinnyMoose | 10-06-2008 11:36 AM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Thanks all for the input. I didn't realize you could just buy anything, and that what really mattered was if you were to write it off. So if I wanted I could go and fill up my car with gas and buy a coffee and donuts and then some extra ammo, all with my business I could do that? As long as I don't try and get a tax write off from it then there is no big deal??

SLV>GLD | 10-06-2008 11:54 AM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyMoose (Post 1336779) Thanks all for the input. I didn't realize you could just buy anything, and that what really mattered was if you were to write it off. So if I wanted I could go and fill up my car with gas and buy a coffee and donuts and then some extra ammo, all with my business I could do that? As long as I don't try and get a tax write off from it then there is no big deal??
Uh, yeah, dude. That sort of thing is fine when the business is all you. Having partners is a good way to curb that sort of behavior. Otherwise, you need common sense enough not to spend your business to bust. What would be the point in operating a business if the owner/operators of the business couldn't spend the money as they saw fit? The IRS is only looking for their cut of your income. When you make deductions you are making a smaller pie for them to cut from.

Cassius | 10-06-2008 12:12 PM
Re: Buying a Firearm through your business as an asset Quote:
So if I wanted I could go and fill up my car with gas and buy a coffee and donuts and then some extra ammo, all with my business I could do that? As long as I don't try and get a tax write off from it then there is no big deal??
This is correct HOWEVER it makes your accounting a lot more complex and increases the chance of an audit if you DIRECTLY use business money for personal things. (Mixing business and personal funds). It's not in any way shape or form illegal, as I already mentioned you as the business owner are allowed to spend your "profit" in any way you see fit, but the IRS likes you to keep business funds and personal funds totally separate. And it's the way most businesses operate because it's proper AND makes your accounting easier. So if you do write a check or spend money directly out of your business account on personal things, every single transaction done that way will have to be listed by your accountant as a separate "disbursement" (distribution of business profit) to you. Having a bunch of little disbursements in the same month because you are using your business debit card to buy groceries and gas, etc, makes your accounting all funky and makes the IRS more suspicious of you possibly trying to do something that's not on the up-and-up. Won't guarantee an audit but raises your chances. The proper way to do it is to simply write a check once a month from the business to yourself (payable to your own name), deposit that check into your personal bank account and spend the money from there. Then everything looks proper because it is an OFFICIAL disbursement, and it's infrequent and on a regular schedule.

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