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- - Firearms/ammo or........silver? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=406337)

illuminate10 | 09-10-2009 01:35 AM
Firearms/ammo or........silver? Well, I'm looking for some opinions on what you guys/gals think about about selling some ammo and/or firearms for FRN's(since I'm low) and maybe some more silver in case of a price dip. I can say I have enough ammo/arms for my immediate family in case(fill in the blank)....... Doing some side jobs to pull in some cash but.....well I think some can relate with the situation at large in the economy today. Sooooooooo, what would GIM'ers do?? <<<Could that be a t-shirt? :biggrin:

Saul Mine | 09-10-2009 03:59 AM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? How much ammo do you really need? Some people think they need enough to support a war, but how likely are you to get into such a situation? If you are attacked by thugs you might need as many rounds as your weapon holds. If cops come for this or that reason you likely won't get to use more than one or two rounds before they do what they are famous for doing. The question is always "What exactly are you preparing for?"

wallew | 09-10-2009 10:21 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? You need ammo... but how much? The most important need will be the ability to defend yourself from others. Either socially challenged individuals (scumbags in my language) or people that failed to prepare or are just desperate and end up involved in criminal activity. Whatever you want to call it, other people are the most urgent reason to be armed after SHTF. For that your handgun (which you should already get used to carrying all day) will be your tool. For this a few boxes of ammo will do. Most likely you’ll be doing some drawing but the most probable outcome is that the bad guys will choose a less dangerous victim. Of course, you have to be physically and mentally ready for the other outcome as well. My point is that even though being armed will save the day for you more than once after SHTF, you wont be getting into gunfights a lot (hopefully not!) the dead serious aspect of a gun to someone’s face generally is enough. Again, it’s a thin line and you have to be ready for shooting, but the second best outcome is that everyone, including the (bad guys) goes home. In case you’re wondering the best outcome is spotting them before they are close enough and avoiding the encounter entirely. Then there’s something I’ve seen done a lot, specially in farms and such, and is the need to fire a few warning shots to send trespassers, thieves and poachers away. This can happen almost on daily basis and I see the wisdom there in using a cheap round like 22LR, and that’s what most farmers and ranchers use most of here. 3 or 4 warning shots a day means over 1000 rounds a year. Better to make that 22LR. The semi auto 22lR carbine is also accurate for long range shooting in case they fire back. Anyone wounded at a considerable distance will most likely just leave. It’s common for people here that live in the country to supplement that with a 22LR handgun and for the more informed shooter, a 38 special or other big bore handgun in case it gets close and personal. Handgun ammo: You’ll rarely put any to use, but lets say you do end up in messy situations. 100 rounds a year is more than I’ve ever heard anyone using in a single year in self defense situations, but lets add 200 more to keep a minimum amount of training in troubled times. That’s 300 rounds a year. Rifle ammo: Lets go for a similar minimum as the handgun, even though the handgun is much more likely to be used. 300 rounds a year. (I’m not taking into account real training where you can easily shoot 1000 rounds a day. I’m talking about a bare minimum here) Living in the country: At least 1000 rounds of 22LR a year (add %20 safety measure) That could be a couple 550 value packs and a few 50 rounds boxes of good premium 22LR ammo like CCI Stingers or Velocitors for small game hunting or self defense. You could carry a magazine with bulk ammo for daily use, and a couple more with good premium ammo in case you come across game or need to defend yourself. Ideally, you’ll have a greater safety net in having x2 or x3 times as much ammo. Forget about ammo as currency, buying a pair of hand made socks in Barter Town with 10 rounds of 22LR only happens in fiction novels. If you want to have money to be used after SHTF and want to prepare for the most outrageous possible SHTF situations, just play it safe and put that money into gold and silver. FerFAL Ammo availability I’d like to mention this because people are talking about it a lot and maybe this can help. The standard approach is to buy guns in common calibers because the ammunition is more plentiful and easy to find. These last few months people got very interested in the kind of ammo available, thinking about ammo availability in the future. What happened in USA was that because of these events, people started stockpiling guns and ammunition. Of course, they cleaned out most common calibers and the ones that aren’t that common like 10mm or 41 magnum where still available. “Oh, the theories are wrong! Odd calibers are clearly the way to go!”. Well, no. Because of the situation, it would seem that common calibers don’t make as much sense, but you can’t base you decision on a momentarily situation. Common calibers will be restocked. Odd calibers will still be expensive and hard to get in smaller shops. What happened here was that the Military Factory ( Fabricaciones Militares) cut down the production of ammo because of the crisis. Guess which calibers were dropped and which ones continued to be manufactured? You go that right, common calibers, 22LR, 9mm, 45, 308W, calibers they new would sell and not sit around waiting for someone with that uncommon firearm caliber. So people, in spite of recent events stick to common calibers, and if guns are your “thing” then yes have other guns so you can take advantage of any kind of ammo you may find, but common is always better if you are just going to have a few guns. Same for other smaller local caliber manufacturers: 22LR, 12 ga, 9mm, 40 and 45 , 38 and 357 magnum, those are the ones that get made. Stick to common calibers and have a nice amount stocked. When you need it it’s no time to go buying. FerFAL Because sometimes you just have nothing but bad luck and while odds are in your favor, Murphy may be around and decide to pay you a visit. Instead of everyone going home, the guys that suddenly show up pull guns, and that’s when you start shooting. I’ve heard of cases where just a couple rounds were fired, and some really nasty ones where 50 or more cases where found after the shooting. It’s just common sense. If everyone involved has high capacity autos and we are talking about 2 or 3 guys, just point shooting and pulling the trigger until the magazine is empties will leave a lot of brass in the ground, and it will still happen in a matter of seconds. FerFAL http://ferfal.blogspot.com/search/label/Firearms

SLV>GLD | 09-10-2009 10:45 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? As far as I can tell I will never be able to buy any large amount of .380 ammo now. When/If it is available I will never be able to buy it for under 0.20/round again. I shoot roughly 100 rounds of .380acp per month. 1200 rounds a year. I'm not sure how much Saul Mine thinks it takes to "support a war" but stocking 10,000 rounds of something that I A) may never get in quantity again and B) can never get cheaply again seems WISE, not overboard. Once the ammo is gone the pistols are useless. 10,000 rounds is just over 8 years at the rate I use it and at 0.20/round prices is only $2,000. I have more than $2,000 tied up in .380 pistols. So, you tell me, does having a 10,000 round stock of this caliber sound so outrageous, now?

CQC McDuck | 09-10-2009 11:45 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Keep what you have and focus on stocking up on whatever is cheapest at the moment. Unless it's an emergency, work more hours to build up your stash of FRNs or cut your household budget and live below your means for a bit.

Real Money Now | 09-11-2009 12:49 AM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1914952) Forget about ammo as currency, buying a pair of hand made socks in Barter Town with 10 rounds of 22LR only happens in fiction novels. If you want to have money to be used after SHTF and want to prepare for the most outrageous possible SHTF situations, just play it safe and put that money into gold and silver.
Whoever wrote this is a fool. What are you gonna do, throw gold and silver at home invaders? Ammo is currency. Gold and silver are currency for the times when disruption is mild & temporary, or right before & right after total collapse - not during. If you think you're "low" on ammo, buy some more, and store it properly.

ruprick | 09-11-2009 12:55 AM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? By Christmas your Silver Profit (in FRN) will pay for half of that rifle.... Good move on the silver. Make sure you have enough guns & ammo.

illuminate10 | 09-11-2009 01:47 AM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? First off, I want to thank everyone for their contribution and time in their responses. :smile: To Saul Mine, For the most part I totally agree with you on not needing very much ammo/firearms etc....but during these times now it can look pretty gloomy and unpredictable and I wish I know what to expect with my/our(USA) financial future. If this were just 5 yrs. ago I wouldn't be asking this question. Yea, I can see asking "what exactly are you preparing for?" Because sometimes, that's all it takes is someone or yourself to really put things into perspective by such a simple question. Thank you. To keep it short and to the point, the worst(peak) of this downturn economically. I don't know if USA will get as bad as Argentina(with their currency) in the near future or something of that nature. I live in Los Angeles which is pretty packed and can see it getting really (x10) bad compared to the Los Angeles riots over 10 yrs ago if such an "event" were to occur. To wallew, Yea, I recall reading some of this from "ferfal's" blog. Not gonna say I didn't take his experience he shared and use it to influence some of my decisions. To SLV, I'm with you on the .380, it's practically non-existent around here. Ammo for the most part is still cleaned off the shelfs or the stores arn't stocking up as much or a combo of both. To CQC McDuck, I'm gonna look at some other things I can scrounge up first I think too. Don't want to get rid of what I have, and I'll be the first to tell you I'm pretty frugal. To Real Money Now, I see the metals being used all the time. I don't think anyone will ever walk away without wanting to take/trade/steal them, unless of course under dire consequences in that persons mind. For the most part though I'm with you.......your health/protection is the real currency. To ruprick, By christmas you think silver will make some :getdown: ? I certainly hope that happens which is why I'm almost all in silver, but don't know for sure. I like that guns and ammo part too :ok:. Especially from a sharpshooter, no?

Saul Mine | 09-11-2009 02:42 AM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? I figured there would be some snide replies to that post. I didn't suggest that anybody should stash more or less artillery. I suggested that everybody should think it over and decide how much they really needed to stash, apart from the advice of gun nuts. Believe it or not, some people are able get along quite well without ever using any weapon that requires a police report. I once lived in a rather nasty neighborhood. It was so nasty that I told one neighbor to find another place to live, I would not allow him to live in my neighborhood any longer. He snickered. I put a bucket of salt water on my work bench and proceeded to make sodium chlorate. When one of the kids saw the icky looking mess he said "Whut's thet?" I told him "It's a bomb, don't touch it!" I dried it and mixed it with sugar, making a product called "stage smoke", which I burned in the back yard. That was Saturday. On Monday I noticed the neighbor's house was vacant. He had moved. Another punk decided to push the issue, so I bought a shotgun, oiled it, and left it standing in the hallway. When a neighbor lady asked what that "sweet smell" was, I told her it was gun oil. The punk never came again. A while later a second punk tried to get a piece of the action, so I sprayed him with tear gas. There was just one more altercation: his girl friend came over and scolded me because she had to take time off from work to drive him to the hospital. I apologized for inconveniencing her. There was no further difficulty in that neighborhood.

Operation Grief | 09-11-2009 06:03 AM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Mine (Post 1913421) The question is always "What exactly are you preparing for?"
L.A. Riots (1992) type situation when the police are pulling out (running away) and announce to the public�"You're on your own."

wallew | 09-11-2009 07:41 AM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? [quote=Real Money Now;1915206] Whoever wrote this is a fool. What are you gonna do, throw gold and silver at home invaders? Ammo is currency. Gold and silver are currency for the times when disruption is mild & temporary, or right before & right after total collapse - not during. If you think you're "low" on ammo, buy some more, and store it properly. [/quote] RM, The person you are calling a 'fool' is FerFAL. A guy who's lived in Argentina most of his life. Since 2001, the SHTF and economically their economy imploded by 3/4, with their currency losing that much value almost overnight. YOU apparently don't know who he is. SO THAT MAKES YOU THE FOOL. This guy LIVES SHTF daily. And posts about it on his blog. But hey, you so much smarter than Fernando. HOW LONG have you been living through SHTF? Oh, wait, you live HERE IN THE USA. IDIOT. :36_1_28:

kiwi_envoy | 09-11-2009 07:47 AM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Get the reloading gear and make some rounds for your weapon of choice and then buy all of the stuff like brass, primers, lead, powder. Then while this is coming through the front door for the reloading press buy up silver and gold coins as best as you can. Plus prep with the food, 2 way radio, water purifier, batteries ete etc. Good luck. :553:

moreair | 09-11-2009 08:14 AM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Even if you don't think you will need much ammunition for a SHTF situation, there is another reason to consider stocking up, that is that a lot of people are scared that Obama might try to make a gun grab in the near future. Right now he is tied up on health care, but when they get slow, they will go back to attacking our second amendment rights like they always do. It's their favorite past time. For me, I am buying for the potential outlawing of my toys. I personally don't think we are going to be walking around shooting each other. Having said that, I do believe if you don't own a pistol and a riffle you will be at a serious disadvantage if TSHTF. Every pay I try to buy a little silver and a little lead. I can't afford gold, that's for rich kids.

45 ACP | 09-13-2009 01:40 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Stash as much ammo as you can. And train with it. Training is the key to survival.

Ag_man | 09-13-2009 03:13 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Quote:
You need ammo... but how much?
wallew, I really appreciate that common sense post, something that can be in short supply at times on GIM. When I read posts about cracking floorboards, etc, I have to wonder about the posters sense of priorities. I try to strive for balance in everything and try not to have my decisions ruled by fear.

Real Money Now | 09-13-2009 03:17 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1915436) The person you are calling a 'fool' is FerFAL. A guy who's lived in Argentina most of his life. Since 2001, the SHTF and economically their economy imploded by 3/4, with their currency losing that much value almost overnight. YOU apparently don't know who he is. SO THAT MAKES YOU THE FOOL. This guy LIVES SHTF daily.
If you think that the current situation in Argentine is "SHTF" then you, too, are a fool.

Matt-themaddog-Dollar | 09-13-2009 04:25 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1918982) If you think that the current situation in Argentine is "SHTF" then you, too, are a fool.
Ok, then what is SHTF going to be like?

wallew | 09-13-2009 06:25 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1918982) If you think that the current situation in Argentine is "SHTF" then you, too, are a fool.
Wow, so losing 3/4's of our currencies value in less than a month doesn't qualify in your mind as SHTF. How about a place where life is so cheap that if you are lucky when you accidentally wander into 'the wrong neighborhood' you get out with your life. They take everything you have, INCLUDING YOUR CLOTHES. And like I said, if you are lucky, you get to walk out naked. If not, dogs will be eating your thingy for lunch. If that's NOT SHTF, I too would love to hear YOUR EXAMPLE. You REALLY need to go over to www.ferfalblogspot.com and read. And read and read and read. Cause he spells it out. He even says he can't believe how far they have fallen and how everyone just seems to accept it, like it's normal. Grow up. MOVE TO ARGENTINA. THEN TELL US HOW GREAT IT IS THERE. Of course, you wouldn't last five minutes, so you MIGHT get one blog posted and then disappear. What a freakin maroon.

SLV>GLD | 09-13-2009 07:11 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? www.ferfal.blogspot.com forgot the dot, wallew if you fix it i'll delete my post

wallew | 09-13-2009 08:54 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? slv>gld, thx. Fighting a tooth infection. HEAVY on the penicillin and valuim. So yeah, not surprised. THX for fixing it.

Real Money Now | 09-13-2009 09:07 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1919166) How about a place where life is so cheap that if you are lucky when you accidentally wander into 'the wrong neighborhood' you get out with your life.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=...title&resnum=1 Those who think Argentina is currently experiencing "shit hitting the fan" are just like the people who say those who pay for cable TV are "poor."

Matt-themaddog-Dollar | 09-14-2009 12:08 AM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1919381) http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=...title&resnum=1 Those who think Argentina is currently experiencing "shit hitting the fan" are just like the people who say those who pay for cable TV are "poor."
Is it going to be like "Dawn of The Dead" where the zombies are slow, or is it going to be like "28 Days Later" with fast zombies?

illuminate10 | 09-14-2009 01:22 AM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt-themaddog-Dollar (Post 1919609) Is it going to be like "Dawn of The Dead" where the zombies are slow, or is it going to be like "28 Days Later" with fast zombies?
It's going to be like......."ZOMBIELAND" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=071KqJu7WVo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=071KqJu7WVo

bcvojak | 09-14-2009 04:24 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Would be nice for me if ammo did become the currency of choice after TSHTF, as I have over 40K rounds stashed away. Most of it was purchased over a decade ago, before I ever was interested in prepping, but back when I did a lot of shooting as a hobby. It was a LOT cheaper back then. . 1,000 rounds of Military steel core in .223 for ~$125! But the general rule I like to follow is: Don't trade anything away that could be used against you later, such as Guns, Ammo. The only way I'd trade ammo in a SHTF situation is if I could do so anonymously such as at a local "General Store" or "Trading Post" where the person behind the counter doesn't know who I am, or where I live. Same goes for trading silver or gold. Don't want to put a big target on your back that says "I own PMs - Please rob me". . Sadly it seems to me that many people here and on many other prep forums are certain that there will only be one form of TSHTF, and that it will be the "Mad Max" scenario. More likely there will not be a specific day, where you will wake up and say "Today is THE day - Batten down the Hatches!!!!". Far more likely will be a situation where you walk into a grocery store and realize that your weekly basket of food that use to cost you $100, is now $165. and next month it will be $232. Far more likely is that the media will stop reporting on unemployment, or use very restrictive numbers, while other sources will show that the real number is 30+%. You'll will see with your own eyes that half the people on your block don't have a job, and know who is telling the truth, and who isn't. Far more likely is that the government will be telling you that inflation is 3.2%, as you fill up your car with $9.35 per gallon gasoline and pay your $368 heating bill. And then you'll realize. . . TSHTF a months ago. Crime will increase and only stupid people will travel outside unarmed. But there won't be gangs of 100 bikers roaring across the countryside looting and pillaging and raping. Those would be easy to deal with. The real danger will be the smiling guy who approaches you on the street as a distraction, as his partner behind you sticks a knife into your kidney so they can grab your wallet. The real danger will be the home invasion teams who will hit people as they are coming home late at night and are vulnerable as the get out of their cars to go into their home. And after a while, all this will then be considered "normal" life. . .

wallew | 09-14-2009 04:45 PM
Re: Firearms/ammo or........silver? Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1919381) Those who think Argentina is currently experiencing "shit hitting the fan" are just like the people who who think the poor are paying for the house they live in, the big screen TV they watch and the drugs they use. All of those things are paid by WORKING PEOPLE, which none of the poor people who live in section 8 housing are doing.
There, fixed it for you. STILL A MAROON. And you OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT READ ONE WORD FerFAL has written. IDIOTS ARE.

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