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- - Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=322731)

George Spelvin | 11-16-2008 06:23 PM
Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... I am in a situation where I own significant open acreage in the vicinity of a moderately well populated area (town of 20,000 approx 25 miles away). On my land, I have lines of sight of up to 400 yds from my home and outbuildings. Currently, I have a Norinco SKS which I love, a modified 870, 3 10/22's, and various hunting rifles and shotguns. Handguns are also accounted for. I also have a top of the line Sabre Defence AR-15 with an Aimpoint clone, foregrip, rails, etc and a case of 5.56 to go along with it. While this should be a great rifle, I do not like it. With several hundred rounds through it, it jams frequently and seems finicky. At the range, I actually prefer my SKS with all its trigger creep to the crisp AR. The AR/Kalishnikov juxtaposition regarding reliability has been made pretty obvious to me as the SKS rarely sees a cleaning while the AR is carefully maintained. I've begun to get the feeling that the AR must go, even though it seems weird. I feel strange letting go of such a "desirable" rifle. The opportunity has presented itself to trade the AR, aimpoint clone and ammo for a "Correct Grade" M1 Garand and a Remington 700 tactical (no optics), both in 30.06. This would be nice as it would provide me with a MBR and a nice means of "reaching out and touching someone", both in the same caliber. While I would prefer .308, the deal is for the 30.06. He's also willing to through in 250 rds of AP and a bunch of brass. This seems like a no brainer to me, but still, I feel weird giving up on the AR. Keep in mind that the SKS with tapco mags runs flawlessly and would be great for the 75 to 150 yd range. What would you do? Thanks for any advice...

SilverCity | 11-16-2008 06:28 PM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... One question I have to ask...what ammo are you running through your AR? I hope you are not using steel cased stuff. Second question, what type of mags? A top quality AR like the one you have should not be having those types of problems unless there is something broken, you are using inferior ammo, bad magazines, or you have never cleaned the weapon... Are you sure the Remington 700 Tactical is chambered in 30-06 and not .308? In either case, you would be well armed.

mike77777 | 11-16-2008 06:31 PM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... good trade. the ar is un reliable. two reliable for one unreliable. stock up on 8 rd garand clips, nice way to store the 30-06 ammo.

George Spelvin | 11-16-2008 06:36 PM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1419319) One question I have to ask...what ammo are you running through your AR? I hope you are not using steel cased stuff. Second question, what type of mags?
Lake City 55 grain, some Remington white box, some reloads (that fire well in a friend's Wilson Combat AR), no steel cased, some federal mid-quality. Mags are generic but have been swapped with the no-tilt follower.

Twisted Avatar | 11-16-2008 06:39 PM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... Dam I didnt know the AR had such a bad reputation......... And you have to have a paticular ammo to feed it?? Too much Diffuclty for my taste. :thumpdown T

Satyr | 11-16-2008 06:39 PM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1419319) One question I have to ask...what ammo are you running through your AR? I hope you are not using steel cased stuff. Second question, what type of mags? A quality AR like the one you have should not be having those taypes of problems unless there is something broken, you are using inferior ammo, bad magazines, or you have never cleaned the weapon...
I'm wondering the same thing in regards to the steel cased ammo. My buddy has a post-ban Bushmaster that was jamming up on him quite regularly. He shoots Wolf .223 out of the thing (steel cased) and never once cleaned the extractor claw. After I suggested he whitch ammo and clean his gun better, he has not had a single problem.

Satyr | 11-16-2008 06:45 PM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1419344) Dam I didnt know the AR had such a bad reputation......... And you have to have a paticular ammo to feed it?? Too much Diffuclty for my taste. :thumpdown T
It's like any other firearm. Different brands = different quality. Even top named brands will sell at least a couple that are short of perfect. It happens. And steel ammo out of an AR-15 will lead to a worn extractor claw over time. It's steel on steel. It happens. That's why brass is better. (That, and you can reload brass) Though, if you insist on the chaper ammo, you can replace an extractor claw for just a few FRNs. But, when will it fail on you? When you are at the range, or when you need it most? I stick with brass. Other than that, ARs typically are not that picky.

mike77777 | 11-16-2008 06:46 PM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... this particular rifle may be unreliable. the platform as a whole are adequete. 400 yards, the 30-06 may have better performance, energy and accuracy wise.

Quixote2 | 11-16-2008 07:04 PM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1419358) I'd make that trade in a heartbeat.
I second the vote. The 700 also allows you to shoot out to your 400 yard range when you add the optics.

George Spelvin | 11-16-2008 07:47 PM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... Quote:
Originally Posted by Quixote2 (Post 1419381) I second the vote. The 700 also allows you to shoot out to your 400 yard range when you add the optics.
That is definitely a part of the equation and is why I posted my physical situation in the original post. I have no problem hitting a 12x16" steel plate at 200 yds with the SKS and it loves to gobble Wolf, Golden Tiger etc with no problems. I started to feel like I had the AR just because it was sexy. I definitely want something with a heavier round too. The trade would give me the best of both worlds- a super reliable, albeit limited to 8 rounds, semi auto, and a high quality bolt action, both in a common caliber. I just needed/wanted to hear that I was not being foolhardy for forsaking the AR. I'm sure given time and experimentation, I could get the AR dialed in and my intent here is not to backslide into an AR/AK/SKS reliability thread, however, I've never had finicky-ness to this extent in another rifle, and if anything, the SKS is anti-finicky. It voraciously handles whatever I feed it and I get the feeling that I could chuck it in the farm pond, come back a few weeks later, and pick up where I left off. While not as loose as an SKS, the Garand is surely proven under very difficult conditions. My concern is that during a SHTF in my cold, often wet and muddy environment, any rifle that needs to be operating room clean to perform correctly just won't cut it. I suppose I am answering my own question, but hearing some reinforcement is good...

Hi Ho | 11-16-2008 08:19 PM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... The only downside, ammo is going to start costing you more.

Lt Dan | 11-16-2008 08:49 PM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1419358) I'd make that trade in a heartbeat.
I'd do the same, except I'd not need the Garand as I already own 3 of those. With a field of fire of up to 400 yds you can't go wrong.

Tn...Andy | 11-16-2008 09:00 PM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... I'd take the trade. You need a dependable 400yd rifle, and both the Garand and the Rem700 are that. I have couple Colt ARs, and they are fine weapons IMHO....especially for the type of terrain we have here, where most it is wooded, and most open spots are 200 yds or less. Being able to carry 90-120 rds in 30 rd mags gives you superior fire power without bogging you down with a lot of weight. IF I lived out west where open range presented large amounts of 3-500yd shoots, I'd be looking at an FAL or something..... Also, not ALL AR's are equal. I went to a week shooting/training event couple years ago up in the north woods, and couple guys there had some really crappy AR clones....I think they were "Olympic" brand ( I could be wrong....don't recall exactly ) but those things were CRAP....inaccurate, ( could NOT be zero'ed....I worked on one couple hours....) jammed up all the time, etc. We got into the classic AK vs.AR debate again on the first day....so for the entire week, I didn't clean/lube my Colt....shot thousands of rounds thru it, got it wet, dirty, etc.....never one failure to fire. That settled the debate in my mind......ya'll can keep arguing it if you want, I'm keeping my Colt ( I have several AKs as well....they are "ok", but dang if they don't just feel like a POS compared to a Colt AR ) But the Rem700, which I also have in 30.06, is great shooting iron. One thing about 30.06 is about every country store in the US has a boxes of ammo on the shelf for it.

Silver Wolf | 11-17-2008 02:06 AM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... I'd make the trade.

eat_beef | 11-17-2008 08:59 AM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Ho (Post 1419477) The only downside, ammo is going to start costing you more.
How do you figure that? 30 cal milsurp (HXP) is running less than 30cents per round delivered. 556 is running nearly 40cents per. Also, although it would be nice, the optics on the bolt gun aren't necessary for 400 yard shots. I can hit a man sized target at 400 yards >80% of the time with the Garand's issue sights, and I'm not even that great of a shot.

Lt Dan | 11-17-2008 09:13 AM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1420016) How do you figure that? 30 cal milsurp (HXP) is running less than 30cents per round delivered. 556 is running nearly 40cents per. Also, although it would be nice, the optics on the bolt gun aren't necessary for 400 yard shots. I can hit a man sized target at 400 yards >80% of the time with the Garand's issue sights, and I'm not even that great of a shot.
The beauty of those Garand sight is the reason I own three. Then I got it in my head to buy an M1A and the ammo situation changed for 7.62x51. The .30-06 ammo is still available from the CMP - but I'm sitting on several thousand rounds of both so unless full scale unrest happens, I'll probably never run out. :biggrin:

eat_beef | 11-17-2008 09:43 AM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... I went with the 7.62MM back when it was 15cents per. 7 M14 type rifles later, I finally have enough bbls to burn all that ammo!

Lt Dan | 11-17-2008 11:21 AM
Re: Trade AR for Garand and Rem 700? Advice please... Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 1420072) I went with the 7.62MM back when it was 15cents per. 7 M14 type rifles later, I finally have enough bbls to burn all that ammo!
Between the '06 and 7.62x51 I have close to 10k not sure about 7.62x39 maybe only 3k. Thinking about a bolt gun in either '06 or .308. We have a growing population of wild hogs here in Ohio and it's pretty much wide open season with anything you want to hunt 'em with. Probably could use the M1A with a 20rd mag but for the weight issue.

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