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Twisted Avatar | 04-26-2009 08:37 PM
Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place Jim, A friend of mine had a recent encounter with the police that illustrates the importance of Operational Security (OPSEC), even for the tiniest details. My friend is a survivalist and keeps both an SKS (unloaded but with ammo nearby) and a CZ handgun (loaded) in the cab of his truck. This is basically what Boston T. Party and others recommend: a handgun instantly at the ready and a rifle nearby. My friend does not have a CCW permit and in Washington State you must have a permit to have a loaded gun in a vehicle. He was pulled over while driving on the freeway, and his conversation with the officer who pulled him over went something like: Cop: “I pulled you over because you failed to signal when you changed lanes…” My Friend: “Oh, that’s odd, I know I used my signal.” Cop: “…And I see that you have an NRA sticker on the back of your truck. Do you have any firearms in the vehicle?” My Friend: “Yes.” Cop: “Get out, I’m going to search the vehicle.” After searching and finding the CZ, the cop arrested my friend for having a concealed weapon without a permit (note that the gun was “concealed” in the car, not on his person). With my friend locked in the back of the police car, the cop proceeded to hold the SKS up in the air on the side of the freeway, checking the chamber to see if it was loaded (while hundreds of people drove by). I’ll skip the rant about this incident further lowering my already-low opinion of the Police, and concentrate on the OPSEC implications. The cop never asked permission to search the vehicle: he informed my friend that he was going to search. My friend likely did not commit any traffic infraction, and was probably pulled over just for having an NRA sticker. He is now facing misdemeanor charges for carrying concealed without a permit; If he is convicted he will have a criminal record. The CZ has been confiscated and he will never get it back. Like many people, my friend did not want to get a CCW permit and put his name on a government list of people who carry weapons; he saw getting a CCW as a breach of OPSEC. He chose to exercise his Second Amendment rights despite an unjust state law and he carried without a permit. If he hadn’t committed another, tiny breach of OPSEC, he would not have gotten caught. It’s sad that we’re at the point where even being seen as a supporter of the NRA has become a breach of OPSEC, and something we must hide from the police. Because of this incident I will be removing the NRA sticker from my own vehicle soon. - “Big D” in Washington JWR Replies: To begin with, your friend handed his exchange with the officer the wrong way. He could have maintained his privacy and his Fourth Amendment rights by not answering the officer's question or by changing the subject, when the officer went on his "fishing expedition." I am a Christian and I don't believe in bearing false witness, but there is no Biblical admonition about opening one's mouth. In fact, there is just the opposite: See: Proverbs 18:7: "A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul." I also recommend the "Don't Talk to the Police" lecture by Professor James Duane, that has been mentioned before in SurvivalBlog. I consider it "must" viewing for teenagers and adults. I also recommend studying the book You & the Police! by Boston T. Party. And, yes, it is a sad state of affairs when we have to hide our political affiliations when traveling public highways. http://www.survivalblog.com/

Twisted Avatar | 04-26-2009 08:46 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place 3 Attachment(s) Better change them now.......it is way too easy to become a mark

silverblood | 04-26-2009 08:49 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place Sad story. Does the state the guy lives in allow open carry? If so, would he have been better off leaving the gun on the seat beside him?

elroy | 04-26-2009 08:56 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place I've said it before, if you live where CCW is available, get a permit. The chances of getting caught carrying illegally is to great and the penalty is to high. In some states it is a felony and would cause you much more trouble than just getting a permit.

I am me, I am free | 04-26-2009 09:32 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place Ha! Supporting the NRA gets ya screwed both coming and going! LOL!

Twisted Avatar | 04-26-2009 09:38 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place He should have shut his effing piehole. Cause "telling the truth" got him sh!tcanned something fierce. If you EVER find yourself back into a corner like that.......THE LAST THING ON EARTH YOU DO IS TELL THE TRUTH MAKING THE INSANE CONNECTION THAT WILL SOMEHOW THEY WILL 'GO EASY" ON YOU. They wont.......all they will do is fashion your "honesty" into the noose from which you will hang. That Bagde boy probally got himself a nice fat promotion for pulling somebody over based on a dam lie and used a sticker that advocates you belive in personal defense to his demise. That BB is rat bastard and I hope to the High one somebody remebers him when the grid is down as he will have much to attone for. At a VERY steep price. T

bwelkk | 04-26-2009 09:40 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place The correct answer to the question "Do you have a gun in the vehicle?" is "Are you detaining me or am I free to go?"

Twisted Avatar | 04-26-2009 09:55 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place Quote:
Originally Posted by bwelkk (Post 1695558) The correct answer to the question "Do you have a gun in the vehicle?" is "Are you detaining me or am I free to go?"
Cause If I am being detained I want to have a Lawyer present for all questioning. Cop....blink, blink, blink ....... Then starts to think about loss of vacation days,getting stuck with weekends and midnights In a 9 year old RPM with a busted AC unit because the Sgt is gonna chew his @$$ out for being stupid enough to try and persue this rather than cutting the cord and finding a nice 'honest" citzen to shakedown instead. Have a Nice day Mr XXX and be sure to keep it under 35 now will you?? I sure will Mr officer. @$$hole. T

gangsta99 | 04-26-2009 10:08 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place "No I do not have a firearm mr. officer, I am just very happy to see you, I love a man in uniform." (Make sure to speak like Mr. Garrison from South Park when saying this) You will be moved along before you know it.

Coltwind | 04-27-2009 05:08 AM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place I think it would help to have the "police brutality" I Support Law Enforcement Charity sticker.

I am me, I am free | 04-27-2009 11:18 AM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltwind (Post 1695904) I think it would help to have the "police brutality" I Support Law Enforcement Charity sticker.
According to former LEO narc now doper Barry Cooper of nevergetbusted.com, that's a bad idea as well.

platinumdude | 04-27-2009 05:19 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place Best not to have any NRA or gun stickers on your car.

Mike C | 04-27-2009 05:42 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place He should have simply said "no" when asked. The cop didn't need permission once he admitted to breaking the law. Your friend screwed up, not the cop. Or, he could just do the right thing like he is supposed to do, and get a freaking permit. Why does everyone worry about "being on a list". Everyone is on a list somewhere, quit worrying about it.

Abouthadit | 04-27-2009 06:25 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place Quote:
Originally Posted by bwelkk (Post 1695558) The correct answer to the question "Do you have a gun in the vehicle?" is "Are you detaining me or am I free to go?"
Yes. Remember the master slave relationship. The master asks the questions and the slave answers. You are the master. You ask the questions. Am I being detained? Am I free to go? Am I being arrested? Am I free to go?

Tallinthesaddle | 04-27-2009 07:04 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place Sure I belong to the NRA and SASS, but I have no stickers or political tags on my truck. I read a book called "Arrest Proof Yourself". It talks about not having a vehicle that would draw attention to yourself (red lowrider) or has anti-government stickers or advertising. That makes it a cop magnet. Remember, they are to Hunt and Arrest, not protect and serve. My son-in-law has a red mustang with cage fighting stickers on it and he has been stopped four times.

leadfoot | 04-28-2009 01:44 AM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place Quote:
Originally Posted by gangsta99 (Post 1695593) "No I do not have a firearm mr. officer, I am just very happy to see you, I love a man in uniform." (Make sure to speak like Mr. Garrison from South Park when saying this) You will be moved along before you know it.
Bad advice. If you lie and they then do an illegal search you should be able to beat the weapons charge. But they will still have you by the cajones for lying to a law inforcement officer, impeding an investigation, conspiracy to be a right-wing domestic terrorist and whatever else the DA can cook up. IANAL - just my 2 cents.

morganchaser | 04-28-2009 01:59 AM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place I got in a car wreck less than 5 minutes south of WA on my way north with an AK in my trunk. Was the biggest ****ing relief of my life to find out I was still south of Northifornia. I would have managed either way, but I sure as hell didn't want to have to sneak a rifle out of my trunk right under a LEO's nose. **** WASHINGTON. I never miss an opportunity to let a WA resident know how little I think of their slice of Communism. That state is dildos. Also, the person in the main story is an idiot. WA cops are fascist pig ****ers, but you have to be a maroon to CC without a permit in most states. Follow gun laws to the letter. What's officer McFascist's name however? I think cops who enforce FUBAR unconstitutional laws should have their name and address all over the internet.

The Great Ag | 04-28-2009 01:58 PM
Re: Caught Between OPSEC and a Hard Place Hey, TA: Your buddy screwed up (like we all have not before with LEOs) as a couple of GIMers posted. First, When he admitted to having a gun in the car. Second when he stepped out of the car and let the officer search. There are a million different answers he could have given. But saying "yes" and then stepping out of his car, a big mistake. Unfortunately, your friend will pay from his mistake. Hopefully he learns. If he is law savvy he can look up the original statute and see what it says. He may be able to save himself that way. Good luck to your friend, TA The Great Ag

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