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- - First Gun - Calibre noob question (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=435738)

Awoke | 12-29-2009 02:00 PM
First Gun - Calibre noob question So I have finally gotten off my arse and jumped thorough the hoops that my "Government" has put in place, so I can buy firearms. I am planning on picking up a .22 repeater, a 12 gauge (Yes, you guys talked me out of the 410) and a rifle. The rifle will be a hunting gun that I intend to use on Wolves/Coyotes, as well as Deer. I was thinking 7mm mag. Anyways, the simple question I have, which would save me a lot of time researching is this: What is a cheap and plentiful calibre for a hunting rifle? I don't want to get anything that will be hard to find ammo for, or have really expensive ammo. Please share. Thanks!

Kregener | 12-29-2009 02:08 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Ammo prices have ballooned over the last couple of years, so the bargains are few and far between. Get a Springfield M1A and load up on as much ammo as you can afford. You will have a rifle that can knock down just about anything, AND be an excellent battle rifle. Should you ever have to...'battle'...anything or anybody. :wink:

.41Dave | 12-29-2009 02:59 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question What hunting rifle calibers are cheap and plentiful can vary a bit depending on your location, but the following are very commonly available just about anywhere ammo is sold: .30-30 .243 .30-06 .270 .308* .233* *While popular, just about everyone and his idiot cousin Timmy has a "battle rifle" in one or both of these calibers, which means thay tend to disappear from the shelves first. For this reason, I recommend one of the others unless you just have to have a .308 or .223.

tulsamal | 12-29-2009 03:04 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Quote:
I don't want to get anything that will be hard to find ammo for, or have really expensive ammo. Please share. Thanks!
I could guess at what is the most common but I'm not sure it would be relevant for you up there. My suggestion would be to go to wherever you plan to buy this ammo in the future and check out what they have. Do they have a lot of different brands and loads in a caliber you are interested in? And how are prices? What is true in Oklahoma probably isn't the same in Canada. Plus there are different gun laws up there so I don't know what rifles would be legal for you in the first place! In the US, a trip to Wal-Mart would show you 30/06, 308, 270 Winchester, and 30-30 Winchester. Plus cases and crates of 12 gauge shotshells. There would be other things as well but those are the "vanilla" choices. As far as "first gun," that should be your .22 LR. Start there. Gregg

gbgunner | 12-29-2009 03:09 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question I'm not sure what's available to you in Canada for long guns. What about getting a shotgun with a rifled barrel and then get slugs instead of a rifle?

BobtheTomato | 12-29-2009 03:18 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question .308, .223, 7.62x39 (same preformance as 30-30)

Fullpower | 12-29-2009 04:51 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question 458 Winchester Magnum. If ya only have one gun, make damn sure it's enough gun.

Ag_man | 12-29-2009 06:18 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question .30-06 or .308 Win, hands down for either hunting or SD. Forget the rest.

State of Jefferson | 12-29-2009 07:17 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Why don't you consider a Mosin 91/30? Great shooters, work well for hunting. Less than $200 (sometimes less than $100) for the gun, and about 50 cents or less per round for soft point Silver Bear new, non-corrosive, zinc-plated ammunition in 7.62mmx54mm Rimmed cartridges. Mosins are just too fun, and you won't have to spend half a month's salary on the gun and ammunition.

Twisted Avatar | 12-29-2009 07:31 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Jefferson (Post 2099615) Why don't you consider a Mosin 91/30? Great shooters, work well for hunting. Less than $200 (sometimes less than $100) for the gun, and about 50 cents or less per round for soft point Silver Bear new, non-corrosive, zinc-plated ammunition in 7.62mmx54mm Rimmed cartridges. Mosins are just too fun, and you won't have to spend half a month's salary on the gun and ammunition.
:RockOn::RockOn::RockOn::RockOn::RockOn:

steyr_m | 12-29-2009 07:57 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Quote:
Originally Posted by Kregener (Post 2099237) Get a Springfield M1A and load up on as much ammo as you can afford.
I also like the M1A. Get the longer one for it being non-restricted or the short one for restricted here's the reg http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/rp-eng.htm If you're looking for something that's a bolt-action, go with the Rem 700. There are tonnes of accessories and lots of guys shooting it. If you want to custom-build your own.... look at a Stiller Tac30 action http://www.viperactions.com/ It has the Tactical knob already done, plus the sweet bolt fluting. Last but not least, go with the .308 it has power to hunt everything in N. America and it's a NATO round... they should be easier to get if SHTF

TomD | 12-29-2009 08:40 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Just like the 12 ga is the universal round in shotgunning, the 308 is the universal rifle round. I have a scoped bolt action rifle in 7 Mag but consider it to be a more special purpose rig than my other hunting rifles. I'll drag it out when a combination of long range and large size is involved. A 7 Mag is similar to 300 Win Mag. Both calibers are extraordinarily competent but I don't call them universal for two reasons; recoil and ammo cost/availability. A large percentage of the population, including those quite familiar with rifles, consider the recoil of 7 Mag class and up rounds to be objectionable. A lot of people shooting these rifles develop a bad "flinch" and can't hit anything with their rifles. I don't flinch but it is quite a jolt. A 308 is capable of any task in this hemisphere. For your first firearms get the most general purpose and then branch out to more specialized stuff. You can get mil surplus ammo for 308 for around US $.40 a round. For 7 Mag, no mil surplus, count on 4-5 times that much for hunting ammo.

Ag_man | 12-29-2009 09:04 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 2099726) A 308 is capable of any task in this hemisphere. For your first firearms get the most general purpose and then branch out to more specialized stuff.
Tom, I don't know if I'd go that far singing the praises of .308, as good as it is. Folks in Alaska dealing with moose and brown bear might find it lacking. That's where something like the .300 Win Mag comes into it's own. But for a 1st hunting rifle, .308 is a great choice!

TomD | 12-29-2009 09:17 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 2099766) Tom, I don't know if I'd go that far singing the praises of .308, as good as it is. Folks in Alaska dealing with moose and brown bear might find it lacking. That's where something like the .300 Win Mag comes into it's own. But for a 1st hunting rifle, .308 is a great choice!
Everything is a compromise, if you get something optimized for brown bear it will be way too much for 99% of the other uses in the continent. On the other end of the spectrum, a .308 is too heavy for coyote. If you're gonna have one rifle get something in the middle that will work, if imperfectly at the edges, for everything. As you add rifles, you add capability at the edges. Don't start at the edge.

Willie Peter | 12-29-2009 09:34 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question I'd think 7.62 NATO would be the way to go for various reasons, some of which have been mentioned, good to go for anything in NA or SA, plentiful ammo and relitively cheap

Julian | 12-29-2009 10:19 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Consider the Saiga .308... it's almost as good of a rifle as the M1A, for 1/3 the price. That'll buy a lot of mags and ammo.

Juandisimo | 12-29-2009 10:47 PM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Just to throw my 2 cents in 8mm Mauser does almost everything 300 win mag does with 4 times the barrel life. Most people totally misunderestimate the 8mm. (lol) Army specs. for 300 win mag are 196 gr. projectile at 2900 fps. average 8mm surplus is 196 gr. at 2750. You can also get 152 gr at 3100 fps. Yeah c'mon! If you hand load you can get really extreme. It is a very popular round world wide for big game for good reason. I have been playing with it for 20 years now. I have mausers in every flavor and a custom built (from parts I ordered from sarco) sniper. I have well over 15,000 rounds of surplus that I have accumulated since I saw the writing on the wall with the clinton gun ban. 8 mm can still be had very cheap. It goes bang with ATHORITIE:yes:.

TTAZZMAN | 12-30-2009 12:16 AM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 2099559) .30-06 or .308 Win, hands down for either hunting or SD. Forget the rest.
+1 100% my thoughts exactly.... as for the gun.......bolt action remmington 700 would be my first choice.........semi-auto remington 7400.......gun choices are based on Hunting and low cost being the #1 and #2 prioritys hard to beat a 30-06 for a all around hunting gun

TTAZZMAN | 12-30-2009 12:30 AM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 2099803) Everything is a compromise, if you get something optimized for brown bear it will be way too much for 99% of the other uses in the continent. On the other end of the spectrum, a .308 is too heavy for coyote. If you're gonna have one rifle get something in the middle that will work, if imperfectly at the edges, for everything. As you add rifles, you add capability at the edges. Don't start at the edge.
Tom.....why do you think a 308/30-06 would be to much for a coyote ....i agree its way more than enough, but it would do the job wouldnt it?, i ask this as a true question as i have never hunted coyote with a 30cal before and i know a 30-06 will work all the way up to bear/moose etc size

MISRy | 12-30-2009 12:32 AM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Also note that .308,(7.62NATO), is standard issue to zombie hoards which provides a ready resupply point should the SHTF.

Willie Peter | 12-30-2009 01:12 AM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 2100075) Tom.....why do you think a 308/30-06 would be to much for a coyote ....i agree its way more than enough, but it would do the job wouldnt it?, i ask this as a true question as i have never hunted coyote with a 30cal before and i know a 30-06 will work all the way up to bear/moose etc size
A .308 would decimate a coyote, not sure, but I don't think they get to be over 100 lbs....even a wolf, could be dispatched rather quickly with a .308

joe_momma | 12-30-2009 01:30 AM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Yes, a .308 is a bit much for a 75 lb coyote, but when that rutting moose attacks...... I think the board is correct - go with a .308 (7.62 Nato or 7.62x51) - a fine round - too much for squirrels, not enough for a boar grizzly or polar bear, but fits pretty much everything in between - esp 150lb "two legged deer" - a better choice than the .223. Not sure I agree with earlier posters, though I acknowledge they have a good point, about common rounds being sold out when the TSHTF, but, the most common rounds are just that - yes, there might be 338 Lapua or 45-70 rounds left on the shelves, but honestly, I think you'll be better off with common rounds. BTW - kudos to the Nagant adovcates - an outstanding rifle and round (though too uncommon for my personal preference), same to the 8mm Mauser. IMHO - (and yes, this has been talked to death - please no flames, my mini-30 is as much fun as my mini-14) - the .223 round is inferior for TSHTF and light game hunting when compared to the 7.62x39, but I prefer the 7.62x51 overall. Best wishes to all

TTAZZMAN | 12-30-2009 01:35 AM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Peter (Post 2100117) A .308 would decimate a coyote, not sure, but I don't think they get to be over 100 lbs....even a wolf, could be dispatched rather quickly with a .308
Isnt that the point? ......or is there a reason not to decimate?.......save fur? I thought coyotes were like prarie dogs.....in that you dont shoot them for the fur or the meat so what difference does it make? i am sure a 30-06/308 would certainly make a mess out of the hide around our area people that hunt coyotes always comment on how the hides arnt worth anything and are full of tics, mites...and all sort of nasty stuff.....any hunting around here is usually to take care of a livestock problem.

TomD | 12-30-2009 07:06 AM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 2100075) Tom.....why do you think a 308/30-06 would be to much for a coyote ....i agree its way more than enough, but it would do the job wouldnt it?, i ask this as a true question as i have never hunted coyote with a 30cal before and i know a 30-06 will work all the way up to bear/moose etc size
Maybe "too much" wasn't a good choice of words, try "far more than needed" instead.

wildcard | 12-30-2009 07:15 AM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question Quote:
Originally Posted by MISRy (Post 2100079) Also note that .308,(7.62NATO), is standard issue to zombie hoards which provides a ready resupply point should the SHTF.
What??? The zombies have .308? We're doomed! :shine:

teedub31 | 12-30-2009 08:27 AM
Re: First Gun - Calibre noob question My experience with a 7mm Rem Mag?? Very unpleasant to shoot when practicing. Also, the price of average ammo for the 7 Mag is salty to say the least. If memeory serves me right a 20 rd box of Remington cartridges will set you back almost $40. As for the quarry you are persuing??? The 7 Mag is over kill for all three that you brought up. Not saying that is bad, but it is like bringing a grenade launcher to a prarie dog shoot. Personally, I'd get away from the 7Mag and look at the .270, .280, 30-06, .243 or my favorite 25-06. The 25-06 is a necked down 30-06 with a wide range of bullet weight slections that allow you to handload (if you have the ability) a round that will suit groundhogs, coyotes, wolves, deer, antelope, whitetails an have heard about it used on elk and black bears. Shooting almost 3300 ft/sec with recoil slightly more then a .223 or 22-250, you will be hard pressed to find a caliber that offers a wide range of possibilities. Box of 20rds runs from $25 (average rds) to $45 (specialty loads). You can't go wrong with the Remington 700 in any caliber. Look at the Ruger M77 line, although it can be pricey. The TC Encore offers you the most versatility of any gun around. It is a shooting system. One frame accomodates 18 different calibers from 20ga/12ga to .17mag to heavy hitters like a .444 Marlin. Draw back is that it is a single shot. But when you are talking hunting rifle (not battle rifle), the mantra should be "One Shot, One Kill".

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