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gpond | 03-16-2009 05:10 PM
Help: Shooting Low and to the Right Saturday I went down and did my shooting to qualify for passing a CCW course. The target is at 7 yards and I must place 40 out of 50 rounds into a very large torso-shaped target, and thankfully but not surprisingly I hit all 50 within the qualifying target area. In the center of the qualifying target there is a much smaller area colored in red -- it is about the size of two fists - one over the other -- and more or less represents the heart. I aimed each shot at this red area as it was the center of the target. Later I "analyzed" my target and found that I had placed roughly 50% of the shots within or on the boundaries of this smaller red area. I didn't feel that was too bad as it was cold as could be in there and the fan was blowing COLD air right down on my head and I could see my breath and I was literally shivering and shaking. However what I found interesting and what I wish to ask about is as follows. Each and every "miss" that was outside of the red center target area was either to the right of that area, or below that area (low shot), or BOTH! There were literally ZERO shots higher than the target and ZERO shots past the left edge of the red target area. So when I miss, I shot to the right, or I shot too low, or both. I saw a video where an instructor was explaining that depending upon where your misses are relative to the target, he could tell what you were doing wrong. What am I doing wrong to get this pattern of hits/misses? Much thanks, gpond

BikerJon | 03-16-2009 05:18 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf/files...ightHanded.pdf According to this target you're tightening your grip while pulling the trigger.

George Spelvin | 03-16-2009 05:19 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right http://www.is-lan.com/challenge/imag...Correction.pdf hope this helps

C&L 1911 | 03-16-2009 05:31 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right What you're experiencing is called flinching, or anticipating recoil. Basically, your brain knows there will be a loud noise and a quick snap after that, so subconsciously, you're gripping the gun tighter and pushing it forward/down to compensate for upcoming recoil before it even happens, thus your shots going low. You need to learn to not fight the recoil, but rather control it. Let the gun come up on recoil and learn to bring it back down on target. A good way to see if you're flinching is to randomly load (or have your spouse, friend, etc. load it for you) a snap cap or two in your full magazine. With a life round, it's hard to detect flinching due to it being followed by the recoil impulse, but with a snap cap, it will be very obvious to you. The best way to overcome flinching is to practice a lot, and do a lot of dry-firing at home. Once you overcome the fear of recoil, your flinching will be cured. The fact that some of your shots are pulled to the right also indicates that you have too much finger on the trigger, and you're pulling the gun to the right when squeezing the trigger. You need to pull the trigger with the center of your index finger pad, and many people use the first index finger joint instead. Also, all of the above is said assuming your gun is sighted in correctly to begin with. Have you tried asking someone else shoot it to see if it's sighted in?

SilverCity | 03-16-2009 05:38 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right Need more info since I was not there to watch you shoot... Are right or left handed? What type of handgun? Can you shoot straight and hit point of aim when shooting slow-fire and/or from a rest? Do you use the same ammo for qualifying that you will use for carry?

SLV>GLD | 03-16-2009 05:45 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right C&L Nailed it for a right handed shooter, anyway. Also, consider the weight of your trigger pull, it may be too heavy for your hands to keep the gun stationary and level throughout its' travel. I've had this problem with big guns and heavy pull, generally revolvers.

gpond | 03-16-2009 05:47 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1628890) Need more info since I was not there to watch you shoot... Are right or left handed? What type of handgun? Can you shoot straight and hit point of aim when shooting slow-fire and/or from a rest? Do you use the same ammo for qualifying that you will use for carry?
I shoot right handed. Kahr PM9 and I had less than a box of ammo through it before the qualifying. This target was the result of me shooting two handed slow-fire. For qualifying they did not care what Ammo I used, but I used a box of Remington (the green box). Thanks for everyone's time and thoughts on this. I have owned some .357 wheel guns for decades, but this is my first small frame semi-auto, and I have not shot it very much so I'm probably making these rookie type mistakes. The Kahr is pretty snappy so maybe I am indeed tightening the grip in anticipation of recoil? It is a pleasure to shoot, but the grip is small, and as stated the recoil is crisp. Regards

gpond | 03-16-2009 05:51 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1628903) C&L Nailed it for a right handed shooter, anyway. Also, consider the weight of your trigger pull, it may be too heavy for your hands to keep the gun stationary and level throughout its' travel. I've had this problem with big guns and heavy pull, generally revolvers.
Check. The PM9 is DAO, so I try to stage it. The trigger pull is fairly long. I find that I never know at what point my squeeze is going to make her go boom. I am consious of my firm intention to hold on to it which is consistant with tightening the grip and/or thumb squeezing. I will get a lot more practice going forward, as long as I can find 9mm to purchase, lol.

AG Capone | 03-16-2009 05:54 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right If you're right handed, squeeze the gun tightly with your left, keep your left index finger extended to the front of the triggerguard. You should be able to release your grip on the gun with your right hand, only loosely holding it now, and still keep the gun aimed with your left, tight grip on this hand. Practice, unloaded of course, around the house before you go to the range next time. Watch the gun as you squeeze the trigger. It shouldn't pull down and to the right. Now hold it in just your righthand and watch what happens when you squeeze the trigger. This might fix the problem. If you're lefthanded, I'm not sure what the problem is.

SilverCity | 03-16-2009 06:17 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right Practice dry firing 'til you know exactly when that striker drops... Smooth, steady pull until it goes click...and NO front sight movement. As far as hitting low, you might be pulling down on the trigger...Or the gun might be shooting low with those sights. If that is the case, you either aim higher, or raise the rear sight elevation, or file the front sight down a bit to raise the point of impact and get yourself on target. If you are doing everything else right and still hitting right side...try drifting the rear sight a bit to the left.

CrufflerJJ | 03-16-2009 06:37 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right Quote:
Originally Posted by gpond (Post 1628906) Kahr PM9 and I had less than a box of ammo through it before the qualifying. [snip] Thanks for everyone's time and thoughts on this. I have owned some .357 wheel guns for decades, but this is my first small frame semi-auto, and I have not shot it very much so I'm probably making these rookie type mistakes. The Kahr is pretty snappy so maybe I am indeed tightening the grip in anticipation of recoil? It is a pleasure to shoot, but the grip is small, and as stated the recoil is crisp.
One thing that may also help you with your new baby PM9 is Agrip. It's a suede-like material (made from some sort of aramid like kevlar/nomex, I think) with a pressure sensitive adhesive backing. I installed it on my PM9, and it made a world of difference. I find it made the pistol much more comfortable to shoot, more secure in the grip, and Agrip is not as "grabby" to concealing clothing as rubber grip covers. If interested, see: http://www.brookstactical.com/

Elvis | 03-16-2009 07:01 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right A smooth, straight trigger pull will feel like pulling your front sight straight back toward the rear.

DrillAndFill | 03-16-2009 07:23 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right Heh. I'm left handed, and I shoot low and to the left. When I'm shooting a lot, the effect diminishes, but the shot distribution is always skewed that way for me. This is more of an issue with certain pistols (usu. ones I don't shoot often), so the advice above about knowing when the hammer will drop seems good to me -- the Glock 26 which I shoot most gives me the least trouble. I used to have a Sig which felt natural -- the whole trigger-pull sequence was predictable to my hand and brain. I was most accurate with that. I was stupid to sell it. If I were a better shooter, this problem would go away.

Dawg | 03-16-2009 09:04 PM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right Just turn the gun to the left 90 degrees and that should correct the problem, plus it looks cool.:111:

Fullpower | 03-17-2009 02:04 AM
Re: Help: Shooting Low and to the Right File the front sight down to raise Point of Impact. Drift rear sight left to move point of impact LEFT.

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