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stacks | 06-20-2009 07:52 PM
Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Kurt Nimmo Infowars June 20, 2009 New Jersey Democrat senator Frank R. Lautenberg plans to introduce legislation designed to cancel the Second Amend rights of well over a million U.S. citizens this coming week, according to the New York Times. �Mr. Lautenberg plans to introduce legislation on Monday that would give the attorney general the discretion to block gun sales to people on terror watch lists,� the newspaper reports. Lautenberg is a notorious gun-grabber. He introduced a similar measure in 2007. Lautenberg�s action comes in the wake of statistics compiled by the Government Accountability Office drawing attention to an �odd divergence� in federal law that allows erroneously designated terrorists to exercise their Second Amendment right to bear arms but prevents them from getting on a plane or getting a visa. The Inspector General of the Justice Department reported that the Terrorist Screening Center � the FBI-administered organization that consolidates terrorist watch list information in the United States � had over 700,000 names in its database as of April 2007 and that the list was growing by an average of over 20,000 records per month, according to the ACLU. In March of this year the list hit the one million mark, a 32% increase from 2007. The actual number may far exceed one million entries. The FBI says the number of names on its terrorist watch list is classified. In addition to the National Counterterrorism Center watch list, the FBI keeps a list of persons said to be domestic terrorists, according to ABC News. Lautenberg said he was frustrated by an FBI refusal to disclose to investigators details and specific cases of gun purchases beyond the aggregate data included in the GAO report, the Times notes. Earlier this year, a Department of Homeland Security report on �rightwing extremism� designated advocates of the Second Amendment, pro-life and anti-illegal immigration activists, and returning veterans as �terrorists.� It is not known if members of these groups are on the so-called terrorist watch list, although it is a fair assumption to conclude they are. Inside Story asks just how effective the watchlist system is and what risks it poses to personal freedoms.
Inside Story asks just how effective the watchlist system is and what risks it poses to personal freedoms.
On May 15, 2007, then Illinois representative Rahm Emanuel, speaking at the annual Stand Up For a Safe America event sponsored by the gun-grabbing Brady Center, said that if your name appears on the bloated and error-ridden terror watch list your Second Amendment right should be denied (Emanuel�s comments are included in the Alex Jones clip below). Obama chief of staff Emanuel�s promise may soon carry the force of law if Lautenberg�s proposed law makes it through Congress. According to the New York Times, however, the Justice Department is �noncommittal� about whether it would develop guidelines if Congress moved to give the attorney general discretion to block gun sales. Lautenberg�s proposed bill is one of several now working their way through the labyrinth of Congress. On April 29, with little fanfare or corporate media coverage, H.R. 2159 was introduced and referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary. The bill would �increase public safety by permitting the Attorney General to deny the transfer of a firearm or the issuance of firearms or explosives licenses to a known or suspected dangerous terrorist.� Another bill, H.R. 1022, sponsored by New York Democrat Carolyn McCarthy and 67 co-sponsors, would provide AG Holder with the ability to ban guns at will. Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, told WorldNetDaily that H.R. 2159 will be used in conjunction with the DHS �Rightwing Extremism� report. �By those standards, I�m one of [DHS Secretary] Janet Napolitano�s terrorists,� Pratt said. �This bill would enable the attorney general to put all of the people who voted against Obama on no-gun lists, because according to the DHS, they�re all potential terrorists.� Lautenberg�s proposed bill would go one step further and allow Holder to deny the Second Amendment to officially designated enemies of the state. Alex Jones explains the real purpose behind Emanuel�s desire to deny American�s their Second Amendment right to bear arms.
Alex Jones explains the real purpose behind Emanuel�s desire to deny American�s their Second Amendment right to bear arms.

Shasta Gold | 06-20-2009 10:54 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans None of this will end until the American People put an end to it. Putting an end to it will not occur through idiotic & ineffective means like writing letters, making phone calls, protesting with signs, making radio shows or DVDs, or voting. They are at war with you. You refuse to acknowledge that, and refuse to act accordingly.

AurumAg | 06-21-2009 03:46 AM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans I just wanted you to read that one more time. I think Eric, Emmanuel (who is God with us), and Lautenberg should be disarmed until they can prove their respect for individual, inalienable, human rights. Why don't you guys focus on PEACE, rather than stirring yet another hornet's nest that will invariably lead to even more death and destruction. Gun owners are peacefully confident. We're also Americans. Only tyrannical intent can manifest in civilian disarmament.

Twisted Avatar | 06-21-2009 09:12 AM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans 1 Attachment(s) MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT THE DIE HAS BEEN CAST THIS WILL ONLY COME TO END AFTER MUCH BULLETS, GUNSMOKE, BLOOD AND TEARS. ANYBODY TELLS YOU DIFFERNT IS EITHER DELUDED, PLAYING YOU FOR A JACK@$$ OR WORKS FOR THEM. THE TIME IS NOW TO MAKE PEACE ABOUT WHAT YOU PLAN TO DO WHEN THEY CHALLENGE YOU DIRECTLY. BECAUSE ITS COMING SOONER THAN MOST OF US WOULD LIKE TO ADMIT.

Tallships | 06-21-2009 09:33 AM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta Gold (Post 1779562) Putting an end to it will not occur through idiotic & ineffective means like writing letters, making phone calls, protesting with signs, making radio shows or DVDs, or voting.
Indeed, the only thing using these methods will do is get you put onto the very list that you are protesting.:36_1_63:

The Remedy | 06-21-2009 12:59 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Lautenburg is an F'ing asshole. He banned gun ownership back in the mid 90's for those convicted of domestic violence. Total violation of 2nd Amendment rights but it's a waste of time to bring that up. Our rights get trampled everyday so what is the big deal.

Twisted Avatar | 06-21-2009 01:08 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Quote:
Originally Posted by The Remedy (Post 1780018) Lautenburg is an F'ing asshole. He banned gun ownership back in the mid 90's for those convicted of domestic violence. Total violation of 2nd Amendment rights but it's a waste of time to bring that up. Our rights get trampled everyday so what is the big deal.
The Big deal is never in the history of the country has the "law abiding" public been backed as far into a corner as it is now. Even the dumbest among us are waking up (slow as hell) to the fact that SOMETHING IS VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG THIS TIME. People are being forced to examine themselves and what there realtionship to everything is.

Doge | 06-21-2009 01:43 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta Gold (Post 1779562) None of this will end until the American People put an end to it. Putting an end to it will not occur through idiotic & ineffective means like writing letters, making phone calls, protesting with signs, making radio shows or DVDs, or voting. They are at war with you. You refuse to acknowledge that, and refuse to act accordingly.
Exactly. This is total war with one side completely winning and the other completely losing. There is no middle ground.

Pat | 06-21-2009 06:35 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans I got a suggestion, try buying your next gun from an individual instead of a business. After the gun bubble burst there will be plenty on the street to purchase. It will burst, the unemployment figures confirm this ...

Tallships | 06-21-2009 07:04 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Another funny thing is that when these guys are turned down to buy a legal firearm, they will possibly become what the list says they might be, and all kinds of new money will flow to black market firearms dealers.

Shasta Gold | 06-21-2009 07:22 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1780028) The Big deal is never in the histroy of the country has the "law abiding" public been backed as far into a corner as it is now. Even the dumbest among us are waking up (slow as hell) to the fact that SOMETHING IS VERY, VERY, VERY WRONG THIS TIME. People are being forced to examine themselves what there realtionship to everything is.
We have a SOVIET regime in power. If you want to know the future, look to the past: http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE4.HTM The same language, the same tactics, the same results. In the Soviet Union, most people didn't have firearms to resist. Americans do. Will they?

Twisted Avatar | 06-21-2009 07:34 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta Gold (Post 1780382) We have a SOVIET regime in power. If you want to know the future, look to the past: http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE4.HTM The same language, the same tactics, the same results. In the Soviet Union, most people didn't have firearms to resist. Americans do. Will they?
The bitter hard truth is....... Only a few. Only a scant few. But that being said I take solace in the fact that.......... “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed............ it is the only thing that ever has". Margaret Mead(anthropoligist) T

stacks | 06-22-2009 12:22 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans This guy has to be a GIMer: !!!!!! LAUTENBERG TO INTRODUCE BILL TO CRIMINALIZE 70% OF AMERICA MONDAY !!!!
!!!!!! LAUTENBERG TO INTRODUCE BILL TO CRIMINALIZE 70% OF AMERICA MONDAY !!!!

Argentsum | 06-22-2009 12:56 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? A terror watch list is nothing more then a group of people considered suspicious. Perhaps they bear watching but you cannot penalize people for suspicious activities because suspicious activity is not criminal activity. Stripping people of their second amendment rights when they have not been subject to a trial by one's peers is far, far, down the slippery slope. This is top down orwellian nonsense of the worst sort. If they can do this, they can do anything. I seriously doubt that this proposed legistlation will pass. It would be challenged the next day and thrown out as so much dogeral. I know, sometimes lawmakers like to float legistlation to see how well its taken by the public but this is beyond the pale. Does congress even know what the constitution is?

Twisted Avatar | 06-22-2009 01:11 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentsum (Post 1781291) Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? A terror watch list is nothing more then a group of people considered suspicious. Perhaps they bear watching but you cannot penalize people for suspicious activities because suspicious activity is not criminal activity. Stripping people of their second amendment rights when they have not been subject to a trial by one's peers is far, far, down the slippery slope. This is top down orwellian nonsense of the worst sort. If they can do this, they can do anything. I seriously doubt that this proposed legistlation will pass. It would be challenged the next day and thrown out as so much dogeral. I know, sometimes lawmakers like to float legistlation to see how well its taken by the public but this is beyond the pale. Does congress even know what the constitution is?
All it takes it just the right trigger and this will pass with flying colors. Think about it. Look at the garbage people have to go through just to fly nowadays. Could you ever imagine you have to take your dam shoes off to board a fricken plane?? Have your liquids(baby milk) dumped because it is not in a see through container?? Having your belongings stolen right to your face by TSA bandits and they claim "national security" as the reason why they must take it?? Nah it wont take much for something as mindnuming as this to pass. Dam........ what have we become?? T

morganchaser | 06-22-2009 03:03 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Doesn't the constitution clearly define the conditions by which a person can be denied their constitutional rights? Conviction of a crime in a court of law?

Shasta Gold | 06-22-2009 03:14 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentsum (Post 1781291) Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? A terror watch list is nothing more then a group of people considered suspicious. Perhaps they bear watching but you cannot penalize people for suspicious activities because suspicious activity is not criminal activity.
AGAIN: We have a SOVIET regime in power. If you want to know the future, look to the past: http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE4.HTM The same language, the same tactics, the same results. Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentsum (Post 1781291) Stripping people of their second amendment rights when they have not been subject to a trial by one's peers is far, far, down the slippery slope. This is top down orwellian nonsense of the worst sort. If they can do this, they can do anything.
That's correct, they can do anything. The landslide of the slippery slope began on 9/11/01. The "USA PATRIOT" Act was just the beginning of the end. Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentsum (Post 1781291) I seriously doubt that this proposed legistlation will pass. It would be challenged the next day and thrown out as so much dogeral. I know, sometimes lawmakers like to float legistlation to see how well its taken by the public but this is beyond the pale. Does congress even know what the constitution is?
The Reichstag, I mean Congress will rubber stamp this just as the former did for Hitler. Do you remember the "USA PATRIOT" Act's vote? Almost all in Congress admitted they didn't read it before voting yes. Last year, do you remember the bailout bill, where 98% of the American People said HELL NO, and they voted yes anyways?

Shasta Gold | 06-22-2009 03:15 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Quote:
Originally Posted by morganchaser (Post 1781489) Doesn't the constitution clearly define the conditions by which a person can be denied their constitutional rights? Conviction of a crime in a court of law?
Yeah, so what? The Second Amendment says "shall not be infringed." Go buy a Tommy Gun at your local gun shop.

Professur | 06-22-2009 03:18 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans You are now guilty until proven helpless.

AOW | 06-22-2009 04:37 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans It's becoming mainstream: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/...uns/index.html People on terrorist watch list allowed to buy guns. WASHINGTON (CNN) -- When people on the government's terrorist watch list have tried to buy guns or explosives in recent years, the government has let them the vast majority of the time. Current law doesn't stop firearm or explosives sales to people whose names are on the terrorist watch list. That's the finding of a new report by the Government Accountability Office, sent to lawmakers last month and released publicly Monday. From February 2004 to February 2009, 963 background checks using the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System "resulted in valid matches with terrorist watch list records; of these matches, approximately 90 percent were allowed to proceed because the checks revealed no prohibiting information," the GAO report says. About 10 percent were denied. "Under current law, there is no basis to automatically prohibit a person from possessing firearms or explosives because they appear on the terrorist watch list," wrote the GAO's director of homeland security and justice issues, Eileen R. Larence. "Rather, there must be a disqualifying factor (i.e., prohibiting information) pursuant to federal or state law, such as a felony conviction or illegal immigration status." Of the 963 background checks, 865 were allowed to proceed, and 98 were denied, the report said. The GAO provided the report in response to a request from Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-New Jersey. The GAO said Lautenberg had requested an update to a 2005 report. In a statement Monday, Lautenberg said, "this new report is proof positive that known and suspected terrorists are exploiting a major loophole in our law, threatening our families and our communities. This 'terror gap' has been open too long, and our national security demands that we shut it down." The statement said Lautenberg is introducing legislation that would give the U.S. attorney general "authority to stop the sale of guns or explosives to terrorists." However, an official with the National Rifle Association, the leading lobbyist group that espouses gun ownership rights, said problems with the terror watch list made a broad prohibition likely to violate the rights of law-abiding citizens. "The integrity of the terror watch list is poor, as it mistakenly contains the names of many men and women, including some high-profile Americans, who have not violated the law," said a statement by Chris W. Cox, the NRA chief lobbyist. "In fact, a March 2009 report by the inspector general of the Department of Justice concluded that many people whose names were mistakenly placed on the list remain there even after their cases have been vetted and closed." The GAO notes that being on a terrorist watch list does not mean that someone is involved in any terrorist activity. Last month, the Justice Department reported that the FBI had kept thousands of names on its watch list based on outdated information and should have removed them.

Big Country | 06-22-2009 11:46 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans My congressman sits on the Judiciary committee (where this bill currently sits with 8 co-sponsors) Sponsor Rep. Peter King [R-NY3] co-sponsors Rep. Mark Kirk [R-IL10] Rep. Timothy Bishop [D-NY1] Rep. Carolyn McCarthy [D-NY4] Rep. Michael Castle [R-DE] Rep. Christopher Smith [R-NJ4] Rep. Charles Rangel [D-NY15] Rep. James Moran [D-VA8] Rep. Edolphus Towns [D-NY10] I sent a to my congressman. Short, sweet, and to the point. Unfortunately my congressman leans far right and will already oppose this bill but I did it anyways just to make sure he knew! My letter: Topic: H.R. 2159 Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2009 I just wanted to write and let you know that I VERY STRONGLY oppose this bill. It has come to my attention that it is is the Judiciary committee that you are a part of. I hope that you will vote no and try to kill this in committee. This gives one man too much power, especially with the vague description of a "terrorist". I hope that you will oppose this bill and any others that violate our 2nd amendment right. Can't say I didn't do my part!

Fatboy | 06-23-2009 07:39 AM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Allow me to be "the devil's advocate" for a moment. If, IF, this passes, "the list" is confidential, sooooo the only way to confirm that you are not on "the list" would be to purchase a firearm. Seems like one would have to do this on a fairly regular basis just to be sure. Looks like those that are insecure with their status will just have to increase the size of their armory!

Twisted Avatar | 06-23-2009 10:46 AM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Quote:
Originally Posted by AOW (Post 1781619) It's becoming mainstream: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/...uns/index.html People on terrorist watch list allowed to buy guns. WASHINGTON (CNN) -- When people on the government's terrorist watch list have tried to buy guns or explosives in recent years, the government has let them the vast majority of the time. Current law doesn't stop firearm or explosives sales to people whose names are on the terrorist watch list. That's the finding of a new report by the Government Accountability Office, sent to lawmakers last month and released publicly Monday. From February 2004 to February 2009, 963 background checks using the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System "resulted in valid matches with terrorist watch list records; of these matches, approximately 90 percent were allowed to proceed because the checks revealed no prohibiting information," the GAO report says. About 10 percent were denied. "Under current law, there is no basis to automatically prohibit a person from possessing firearms or explosives because they appear on the terrorist watch list," wrote the GAO's director of homeland security and justice issues, Eileen R. Larence. "Rather, there must be a disqualifying factor (i.e., prohibiting information) pursuant to federal or state law, such as a felony conviction or illegal immigration status." Of the 963 background checks, 865 were allowed to proceed, and 98 were denied, the report said. The GAO provided the report in response to a request from Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-New Jersey. The GAO said Lautenberg had requested an update to a 2005 report. In a statement Monday, Lautenberg said, "this new report is proof positive that known and suspected terrorists are exploiting a major loophole in our law, threatening our families and our communities. This 'terror gap' has been open too long, and our national security demands that we shut it down." The statement said Lautenberg is introducing legislation that would give the U.S. attorney general "authority to stop the sale of guns or explosives to terrorists." However, an official with the National Rifle Association, the leading lobbyist group that espouses gun ownership rights, said problems with the terror watch list made a broad prohibition likely to violate the rights of law-abiding citizens. "The integrity of the terror watch list is poor, as it mistakenly contains the names of many men and women, including some high-profile Americans, who have not violated the law," said a statement by Chris W. Cox, the NRA chief lobbyist. "In fact, a March 2009 report by the inspector general of the Department of Justice concluded that many people whose names were mistakenly placed on the list remain there even after their cases have been vetted and closed." The GAO notes that being on a terrorist watch list does not mean that someone is involved in any terrorist activity. Last month, the Justice Department reported that the FBI had kept thousands of names on its watch list based on outdated information and should have removed them.
Did somebody give this old windbag the memo that REGULAR AMERICAN FAMILES ARE BEING ADDED TO THAT LIST ON A DAILY BASIS FOR NO OTHER REASON THEN TO HAVE LOTS OF NAMES ON IT?? @$$wipe. T

AurumAg | 06-23-2009 06:57 PM
Re: Proposed Law Allows AG Holder to Block Gun Sales to Over a Million Americans Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatboy (Post 1782524) ...Seems like one would have to do this on a fairly regular basis just to be sure. Looks like those that are insecure with their status will just have to increase the size of their armory!
I believe one 4473 purchase per month would be an accurate method of determining one's "terrorist" status.

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