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- - Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=412454)

PatColo | 10-02-2009 02:53 PM
Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year The Swiss government has ordered soldiers belonging to the Swiss army to return their ammunition by the end of the year. The Swiss army is a conscript army made up largely of citizens who keep their guns and ammunition at home. A vote to ban all private weapons was narrowly defeated. Article from Swissinfo here Article from NZZ here A well armed body of citizens would be a major factor in preventing forced vaccinations or quarantine and in the take over of Switzerland by the Rockefeller/Rothschild banking cartel using WHO and UN as their vehicles as well as members of the Swiss government and parties as agents to carry forward their agenda.

Gaillo | 10-02-2009 04:00 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Interesting... a vote to ban private weapons was defeated, so they're banning ammunition instead? Sounds kind of like what's currently happening in the U.S.

JJ_ | 10-02-2009 04:18 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year A sad day for the Swiss... A portion of their bedrock being chipped away at.

PatColo | 10-02-2009 04:31 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year That's one country where there'll be a robust underground "ammo is money" market. Can anyone flesh this out further? IE, Swiss all serve 2 years or whatever, then are issued their rifle and some ammo to keep in their homes to act as a "conscript army" indefinitely? Can't you buy ammo OTC in Switzerland? Guns?

Real Money Now | 10-02-2009 04:47 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year I predict that Switzerland will join the European Soviet Union by the end of 2010. They betrayed their banking secrecy and now their citizen-army, might as well give it all up.

Twisted Avatar | 10-02-2009 04:58 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Machiavelli wrote in 1532: "The Swiss are well armed and enjoy great freedom." No More........ T

johndoh | 10-02-2009 05:07 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year I thought the Swiss stopped issuing ammo to conscripts for home storage, a couple of years ago. Nonetheless, back when they did, it was only something like 50 rounds per soldier. Maybe this latest push is to take back the ammo they issued to the older conscripts. The Swiss Green Party has been pushing for more firearm and ammo restrictions for a long time. I think they want to require ALL guns and ammo to be stored at govt. armories, not in people's homes. If that ends up happening over there, you can be sure their US and Canadian counterparts will try to push something similar.

Twisted Avatar | 10-02-2009 05:17 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoh (Post 1952020) I thought the Swiss stopped issuing ammo to conscripts for home storage, a couple of years ago. Nonetheless, back when they did, it was only something like 50 rounds per soldier. Maybe this latest push is to take back the ammo they issued to the older conscripts. The Swiss Green Party has been pushing for more firearm and ammo restrictions for a long time. I think they want to require ALL guns and ammo to be stored at govt. armories, not in people's homes. If that ends up happening over there, you can be sure their US and Canadian counterparts will try to push something similar.
And it will be a smashing success.......... Only in some areas. T

S_Goldberg | 10-02-2009 05:38 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaillo (Post 1951896) Interesting... a vote to ban private weapons was defeated, so they're banning ammunition instead? Sounds kind of like what's currently happening in the U.S.
No, this has nothing to with private ammunition. This is government owned ammunition for their military. And ammunition is not being banned in the US. This is being done in response to a rash of domestic violence shooting in which government issued weapons and ammo are used.

Real Money Now | 10-02-2009 05:46 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 1952069) This is being done in response to a rash of domestic violence shooting in which government issued weapons and ammo are used.
Citations, please.

boogietillyapuke | 10-02-2009 05:47 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Articles are TWO years old, guess it must be all turned in by now. :thumb.aspx:

PatColo | 10-02-2009 05:59 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Quote:
Originally Posted by boogietillyapuke (Post 1952089) Articles are TWO years old, guess it must be all turned in by now. :thumb.aspx:
Good catch, it was posted just today at TheFluCase.com, and I don't read the articles in German. I assume it's their oversight... but it does mislead timing wise, as it appeared to line up with TPTB's eugenics war getting on in earnest presently. So is ammo available OTC in Switzerland?

Argentsum | 10-02-2009 06:02 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year So the Swiss are going the way of the Aussies and Brits. I'll turn will come eventually. Then it will just be the criminals and police that have guns and ammo. Criminals and police. Those below and above us. Kinda like the jaws of a nutcracker.

S_Goldberg | 10-02-2009 10:12 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Money Now (Post 1952085) Citations, please.
Google is your friend. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aMKldtonnQMU http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4755143.stm Keep in mind that whether these arguments against the practice of swiss soldiers keeping army issued weapons at home are valid, this is not about private weapon ownership. These weapons belong to the government and if they choose to change the policy it does not represent a violation of private ownership rights. This is not a gun rights issue.

Haltiat | 10-02-2009 10:46 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Perhaps not, or at least not yet, but it is the death of a nation. Isn't it interesting that as a government becomes more corrupt they always disarm the citizenry? Even in a nation whose armed citizenry kept them out of numerous wars.

electric-amish | 10-02-2009 11:33 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year I bet every bullet gets turned in----------yeah right E-A

S_Goldberg | 10-03-2009 01:09 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year While I do agree with you guys that I like the policy of allowing soldiers to keep their weapons at home in order to increase the readiness of the army, this is military policy decision. Their military is an oddity and has been since they adopted it. Quote:
Even the Third Reich stayed out of Switzerland.
This Nazis stayed out of Switzerland for many reasons. One huge reason was the fact that the Swiss actively assisted the Nazis. The Swiss government turned away Jewish refugees who sought to flee to Switzerland, the Swiss helped exchange the gold and other valuables that the Nazis stole from their victims into money that could be used to enrich Nazi party leaders and fund the war effort.

ohioarmedneutrality | 10-03-2009 08:55 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 1953035) While I do agree with you guys that I like the policy of allowing soldiers to keep their weapons at home in order to increase the readiness of the army, this is military policy decision. Their military is an oddity and has been since they adopted it. This Nazis stayed out of Switzerland for many reasons. One huge reason was the fact that the Swiss actively assisted the Nazis. The Swiss government turned away Jewish refugees who sought to flee to Switzerland, the Swiss helped exchange the gold and other valuables that the Nazis stole from their victims into money that could be used to enrich Nazi party leaders and fund the war effort.
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/ Stephen Halbrook has written some excellent articles and books on the Swiss/Nazi issue. It's not as simple as what you have stated.

Dave Thomas | 10-03-2009 09:31 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Something tells me a whole lot of "one box" turn ins will be made. The largest one box at a time haul in history! Then again once they coughed up the numbered accounts thing to the IRS who knows now.

S_Goldberg | 10-03-2009 10:47 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Thomas (Post 1953535) Something tells me a whole lot of "one box" turn ins will be made.
That is all these soldiers are issued. They received 50rds in a sealed container which along with their issued rifle is subject to periodic inspection to make sure it hasn't been opened. The ammo is for use in the event the nation is invaded. The thought is that the 50rds will allow them to get to their designated reporting position where they will get their equipment and assignments to counter the attack. Everyone who responds to this thread, please take the time to understand the issue at hand before commenting.

S_Goldberg | 10-03-2009 10:52 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioarmedneutrality (Post 1953491) http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/ Stephen Halbrook has written some excellent articles and books on the Swiss/Nazi issue. It's not as simple as what you have stated.
There are a lot of questions that remain about what happened. I will concede that they were not as bad as my post made it sound.

SilverCity | 10-03-2009 10:58 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tannenbaum Operation Tannenbaum (Operation Pine Tree) was the planned invasion of Switzerland by Nazi Germany during World War II. The Operation Germany started planning the invasion of Switzerland on 25 June 1940, the day France surrendered. After this, Switzerland and Liechtenstein were completely surrounded by Occupied France and the Axis Powers. The third of these plans was called Operation Tannenbaum. The plan was submitted by 12th Army on 6 September 1940 to Army Group C. Operation Tannenbaum was the third of several detailed invasion plans drawn up for the German General Staff after France collapsed, but Hitler never gave the go-ahead, for reasons that are still uncertain today. Although the Wehrmacht feigned moves toward Switzerland in its offensives, it never attempted to invade. After D-Day, the operation was put on hold and Switzerland remained neutral for the duration of the war. Possible reasons for non-execution There are several possible reasons that the Germans did not execute the plan: 1) Switzerland was not seen as a threat to Germany. Hitler had his thoughts first with the Battle of Britain (Operation Sealion where the few available German mountain divisions were allocated) and afterwards with the invasion of the Soviet Union Operation Barbarossa (already in August/September 1940 large numbers of troops were moved to the East to counter the Soviet threat to Bessarabia). 2) The main window of opportunity for military action against Switzerland was the period between the Fall of France and October/November 1940. After this time, weather would not have permitted a real blitzkrieg attack due to the Swiss terrain. And after the winter 1940/41 Hitler was occupied by Operation Marita and Barbarossa. 3) Italian dependence on coal imports from Germany after the Italian declaration of war meant the use of an intact Swiss rail network was necessary to meet demand 4) While the Swiss military was markedly outnumbered by German forces in artillery and aircraft, to control the nation the Germans would have had to destroy a large and well-trained infantry force drawn directly from the Swiss population. The small arms of the Swiss, including the Schmidt-Rubin repeating rifle, were equal or superior to the best German small arms of the early war period, and Swiss marksmanship was well established. The example of the Winter War showed how a similar force of trained riflemen could stop a much larger, better equipped army. While some have questioned the notion that Swiss rifles stopped the invasion, there can be no doubt that an invasion would have cost the Germans troops and resources needed elsewhere. Had there been no meaningful Swiss military force, the potential invasion would have been considerably less costly. 5) The Swiss government also had a decentralised structure, so even the Federal President was a relatively powerless official with no authority to surrender the country. Indeed, Swiss citizens had been instructed to regard any surrender broadcast as enemy lies and resist to the end. 6) Some industrialists in Switzerland contributed to the German war effort by selling goods such as ball bearings and parts to torpedo guidance systems, manufactured in facilities that could not be bombed by the Allies due to the country's neutral status. The contribution of Switzerland to the overall Nazi German war effort is believed to have been less than 0.5%. 7) Some rumours suggest that Hitler had a personal sentiment toward Swiss culture and its art collections. The rumours generally suggest that Hitler feared that the panzers (and other armoured vehicles) would damage the rich history of Swiss cities, though that statement is debated. 8) The largest ethnic group in Switzerland were Germans, part of Hitler's dream Aryan race, and so he didn't intend on invading and killing off people of his own ethnic group. Because of this, there might have been negotiations on a peaceful integration of Switzerland into Germany, much like Austria, however this would only have been intended near the end of the war, if not after. 9) Switzerland was entirely encircled by Germany and its ally Italy by 1940, and so was already 'controlled' by Germany in that all trade had to occur with Germany or Germany's occupied territories itself.

Kregener | 10-03-2009 11:06 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Wouldn't it be a hoot if they decided to USE the ammo on the confiscators?

S_Goldberg | 10-03-2009 11:26 PM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Quote:
Originally Posted by Kregener (Post 1953664) Wouldn't it be a hoot if they decided to USE the ammo on the confiscators?
What are you even talking about. Do you know what this thread is even about? This is strictly a military policy decision. Not confiscation of private citizens ammo.

skyvike | 10-04-2009 12:49 AM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year While I would agree that one or two posters may have misunderstood the nature of this act by the Swiss government, I believe you, S Goldberg, are missing the point more than anyone. You imply that "it's no big deal" because it's just the Army deciding to store "its" ammo in government facilities instead of private homes. I disagree with you for the following reasons: 1. This is a very longstanding practice/custom of Switzerland. It represents a RADICAL change in the defense policy of this 700-year-old nation. 2. Are not the current "bearers" of these boxes of rifle ammo Swiss Citizens? As such, do they not OWN the ammo already? Only a statist would argue otherwise and it would be natural for them to resist a move like this, especially if it was perceived as part of an overall threat to individual liberty. 3. I have always thought that this was part of "the deal" when Swiss men submit willingly to conscription i.e. "You serve your X number of weeks for training, submit to inspections periodically, etc. and you have the comfort and pride in knowing that you are a Swiss Minuteman, prepared to spring into action to defend your nation from invasion in one minute." (less if you don't mind shooting in your underwear). As such, by taking this ammo away from Swiss reservists, they are changing the deal after the fact, violating a contract so to speak. So regardless of your point that it's "The Army's ammo anyway" this is a serious development, a huge change in policy and indeed culture, and deserves a serious examination and discussion.

S_Goldberg | 10-04-2009 01:02 AM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Quote:
Originally Posted by skyvike (Post 1953757) While I would agree that one or two posters may have misunderstood the nature of this act by the Swiss government, I believe you, S Goldberg, are missing the point more than anyone. You imply that "it's no big deal" because it's just the Army deciding to store "its" ammo in government facilities instead of private homes. I disagree with you for the following reasons: 1. This is a very longstanding practice/custom of Switzerland. It represents a RADICAL change in the defense policy of this 700-year-old nation. 2. Are not the current "bearers" of these boxes of rifle ammo Swiss Citizens? As such, do they not OWN the ammo already? Only a statist would argue otherwise and it would be natural for them to resist a move like this, especially if it was perceived as part of an overall threat to individual liberty. 3. I have always thought that this was part of "the deal" when Swiss men submit willingly to conscription i.e. "You serve your X number of weeks for training, submit to inspections periodically, etc. and you have the comfort and pride in knowing that you are a Swiss Minuteman, prepared to spring into action to defend your nation from invasion in one minute." (less if you don't mind shooting in your underwear). As such, by taking this ammo away from Swiss reservists, they are changing the deal after the fact, violating a contract so to speak. So regardless of your point that it's "The Army's ammo anyway" this is a serious development, a huge change in policy and indeed culture, and deserves a serious examination and discussion.
I agree with just about everything you said except for the part about me missing the point. All I was doing is pointing out that is very different from telling private citizens to turn in their ammo which is how is seems about half of the posters have read this. I do however, take issue with your claim that all government property is owned by the people. While theoretically true, in reality, the average person does not and should not have a right to demand access to any and all government facilities and property. I do not have a right to go the local army base and pick up my share of the nuclear arsenal. Somethings have been handed over for others to deal with. This is not an issue of me being a statist, a patently untrue accusation, it is about a military policy change. One that I agree is misguided, but not one of a citizen's right to bear arms.

skyvike | 10-04-2009 01:11 AM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 1953764) I agree with just about everything you said except for the part about me missing the point. All I was doing is pointing out that is very different from tell private citizens to turn in their ammo which is how is seems about half of the posters have read this. I do however, take issue with your claim that all government property is owned by the people. While theoretically true, in reality, the average person does not and should not have a right to demand access to any and all government facilities and property. I do not have a right to go the local army base and pick up my share of the nuclear arsenal. Somethings have been handed over for others to deal with. This is not an issue of me being a statist, a patently untrue accusation, it is about a military policy change. One that I agree is misguided, but not one of a citizen's right to bear arms.
If the government makes deal that says, "Serve and you my bear arms for the state for the rest of your life, which includes the rifle and ammuntion, then it is a bigger decision than deciding to park the Hanomag on the other side of the motor pool. Having not lived in Switzerland or been in the military there, I cannot comment on the attitudes of members of the Swiss Military reserve but if it is as I have assumed, that serving is prerequisite to the "right" to bear arms for the state, then I would say it very well could be an issue of the right to bear arms. I would have to ask a Swiss man for his thoughts. Which I will do. I happen to know one. I'll write and post his replies.

Ragnarok | 10-04-2009 01:20 AM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year Sounds like the Swiss are at a monumental decision/inflection point/paradigm shift - right to bear arms or not. I hope (and pray) they take the right decision. R.

skyvike | 10-04-2009 01:42 AM
Re: Swiss soldiers ammunition to be confiscated by the end of the year I wrote my friend who completed Swiss Army Reserve Training twenty or twenty-five years ago. He's dual citizen with another country and didn't grow up in Switzerland (although he studied there) so his views might not be exactly in line with Swiss who grew up there. I asked him to consider this in his answers. The questions and answers will be posted once/if I receive them.

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