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- - First time Handgun Training - using a .45 (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=411162)

gunDriller | 09-28-2009 12:21 PM
First time Handgun Training - using a .45 i went with another GIM'er to a gravel pit in a national forest where it is the custom to shoot guns. we shot about 15 magazines of .45 handguns. then he shot several magazines on a .308 rifle and a few chamber-fulls on a 12 gauge shotgun. DAMN, it was scary. i almost felt like crying. when you realize what you're holding in your hand & what it's capable of. i couldn't tell if i was hitting the target because it was an old computer & the bullet just goes right through. but i got more comfortable with the various aspects, e.g. grip, breathing, managing the safety, which part of my index finger to use to pull the trigger, stance, pushing forward with right arm, pulling back with left hand, all those kinds of little details. i couldn't help but do the math, we left about 10 pounds of lead buried in the ground. based on the number of shotgun shells on the ground, it was obvious that dozens if not hundreds of such sessions had gone on there. i guess it's customary to not worry about the toxicity of the lead. it was paradoxical, there we are in a beautiful forest burying lead in the ground. anyway i'm grateful for the training.

Twisted Avatar | 09-28-2009 12:29 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller (Post 1944283) i went with another GIM'er to a gravel pit in a national forest where it is the custom to shoot guns. we shot about 15 magazines of .45 handguns. then he shot several magazines on a .308 rifle and a few chamber-fulls on a 12 gauge shotgun. DAMN, it was scary. i almost felt like crying. when you realize what you're holding in your hand & what it's capable of. i couldn't tell if i was hitting the target because it was an old computer & the bullet just goes right through. but i got more comfortable with the various aspects, e.g. grip, breathing, managing the safety, which part of my index finger to use to pull the trigger, stance, pushing forward with right arm, pulling back with left hand, all those kinds of little details. i couldn't help but do the math, we left about 10 pounds of lead buried in the ground. based on the number of shotgun shells on the ground, it was obvious that dozens if not hundreds of such sessions had gone on there. i guess it's customary to not worry about the toxicity of the lead. it was paradoxical, there we are in a beautiful forest burying lead in the ground. anyway i'm grateful for the training.
I know what you mean. When you are holding that steel or polymer in your hands.... NOBODY CAN MAKE YOU DO ANYTHING......THEY CAN ONLY SUGGEST THINGS AND YOU HAVE THE SOLE PEROGATIVE TO AGREE OR NOT. YOU ARE EQUAL OR ABOVE ANYBODY YOU ARE IN CONTACT WITH .......TITLE AND RANK MEAN NOTHING. It is important to remeber because we are fast approaching a time when others will attempt to usurp this natural law. Be ready to remind them it is still in effect. T

S_Goldberg | 09-28-2009 12:32 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
DAMN, it was scary. i almost felt like crying. when you realize what you're holding in your hand & what it's capable of.
It is an awesome responsibility. However, it is safer than driving a car. Be responsible and treat it with respect as you would any power tool and you will be fine. Injuries happen when people stop respecting the weapon and don't practice safety rules.

S_Goldberg | 09-28-2009 12:33 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1944296) I know what you mean. When you are holding that steel or polymer in your hands.... NOBODY CAN MAKE YOU DO ANYTHING......THEY CAN ONLY SUGGEST THINGS AND YOU HAVE THE SOLE PEROGATIVE TO AGREE OR NOT. YOU ARE EQUAL OR ABOVE ANYBODY YOU ARE IN CONTACT WITH .......TITLE AND RANK MEAN NOTHING. It is important to remeber because we are fast approaching a time when others will attempt to usurp this natural law. Be ready to remind them it is still in effect. T
Ummm....don't listen to this testosterone soaked power trip.

Twisted Avatar | 09-28-2009 12:39 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 1944309) Ummm....don't listen to this testosterone soaked power trip.
What do you mean??? I am just stating some facts and gave an opinion about what I percieve is coming down the pipe. My apologies if being big on defense of your person is something that is an affront to you at times. T

Ghost Recon | 09-28-2009 12:59 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 It is safer than driving a car. But what concerns me is some idiot in this administration deciding that lead in unsafe for the environment.

JJ_ | 09-28-2009 01:20 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
DAMN, it was scary. i almost felt like crying. when you realize what you're holding in your hand & what it's capable of.
This will probably rub you every wrong way. First - there's no crying on GIM Second-get over it. if you don't - training is a moot point. Third - that weapon ain't capable of anything. You build a house- you don't say "my hammer built this house" - you say - "I built this house" You demolish it you don't say "my wrecking ball destroyed this house" you say............ and I'll apologize in advance if this is too testosterone laden... Frankly I think its factual

gunDriller | 09-28-2009 01:56 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1944406) This will probably rub you every wrong way. First - there's no crying on GIM Second-get over it. if you don't - training is a moot point.
OK i promise not to post video of me crying. to some people, "strength" means hiding your emotions. to others, "strength" means admitting the motions & letting them wash through you, then moving on. though in this case, it's just a way of describing the experience, i.e. a metaphor. Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Recon (Post 1944371) It is safer than driving a car. But what concerns me is some idiot in this administration deciding that lead in unsafe for the environment.
the presence of lead is a valid concern, e.g. if there were an aquifer that the shooting field leaches into, that local residents draw their water from. on the other hand, the lead came from the earth in the first place, now it's been returned to the earth. good question for a chemist. lead ore does not equal refined lead. i looked up lead at metal prices.com, it's about $1 a pound. which makes me think about going back with a few shovels & building a fire, then putting a steel plate over the fire. shoveling dirt from the shooting area up onto the plate ... etc. bet i could extract at least a hundred pounds of lead. but since i only have one lifetime, i'll probably never get around to it. the experience also makes me realize how fake the one handed shooting in the movies is. well, maybe with a .22 or smaller caliber.

Twisted Avatar | 09-28-2009 02:05 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Meh dont even worry about lead......... Worry about the Companies like Monsanto and Dupont who pay a couple million dollars to a hand full of lackeys that get to polute the water supply directly with a few permits and "special regulations" Shooting metal is not even on the radar....... T

tulsamal | 09-28-2009 03:44 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 I saw a bunch of LT's and CPT's when I was active Army that couldn't hit a darn thing with their 1911 simply because they started out shooting a handgun with a .45. Not a good idea. You develop a flinch that you can't ever get rid of. Those officers used to blame those "loose old 1911's" for their lousy shooting. Then I would take their auto from their hand and hit every pop up target. That would lead to shuffling feet and more excuses. At the range the US Army used for handgun qualifications, it was easy. But they would shoot the dirt in front of the target time after time. Yanking the trigger. Start with a .22 or at least a .357 loaded with target .38's. You don't want recoil. You want to see where each and every shot goes so that you will understand which type of action led to that outcome. An experienced shooter learns to "call" each shot. If it is going to be a little high, he knows the second the shot breaks. Not that a .45 ACP is an exceptionally powerful handgun in the first place, but I can see a first time shooter would get intimidated by it. Just about any handgun is "weak" compared to a rifle. And .45 ACP is a big bullet but going very slowly. I've bounced them off 55 gallon drums and old steel car doors. We are always glad to have new shooters but I would be happier if you started in a way which is more likely to result in success. I can put virtually every shot into a torso target at 100 yards with a Glock 35 in .357 SIG. But I started shooting when I was a child. I went through BB guns, pellet guns, and countless .22's in rifle and handgun. I would be a flincher and lousy shot if I had just started out with a .45! Gregg

Ag_man | 09-28-2009 04:48 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller (Post 1944464) the presence of lead is a valid concern, e.g. if there were an aquifer that the shooting field leaches into, that local residents draw their water from. on the other hand, the lead came from the earth in the first place, now it's been returned to the earth. good question for a chemist. lead ore does not equal refined lead.
In general, metallic lead is less reactive than most mineral species containing lead.

TTAZZMAN | 09-28-2009 05:09 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller (Post 1944464) the presence of lead is a valid concern, e.g. if there were an aquifer that the shooting field leaches into, that local residents draw their water from. on the other hand, the lead came from the earth in the first place, now it's been returned to the earth. good question for a chemist. lead ore does not equal refined lead. i looked up lead at metal prices.com, it's about $1 a pound. which makes me think about going back with a few shovels & building a fire, then putting a steel plate over the fire. shoveling dirt from the shooting area up onto the plate ... etc. bet i could extract at least a hundred pounds of lead.
In our state we have some area's where lead is mined, when i was a child you could pan some streams in our beautiful forests for Lead and just pick it up off of the ground similar to gold in low areas. the lead in the ground naturally and in the streams naturally here is very pure and would not require a lot of refining, i do not know what alloys they use with the lead when they make bullets but personally i would have Zero issues with lead in the ground unless it has a toxic alloy or you were eating it in your food

Dave Thomas | 09-28-2009 05:22 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Haven't folks been drinking water out of lead pipes for thousands of years? I mean from the Romans till the 30s~40s right? Lead pipe anyone? Sorry for the thread derail, CHOO CHOO, I'm outta here. Puff, Puff, Puff.

____hoot____ | 09-28-2009 05:44 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Thomas (Post 1944845) Haven't folks been drinking water out of lead pipes for thousands of years? I mean from the Romans till the 30s~40s right? Lead pipe anyone? Sorry for the thread derail, CHOO CHOO, I'm outta here. Puff, Puff, Puff.
Never was an issue and even the copper pipe used now is put together with lead based solder, as the lead soon oxidized over. BUT new laws limiting chlorine use in municiple systems has made these governmental units add ammonia to the mix so that they can limit the amount of chlorine used. NASTY NASTY NASTY as the chlorine ammonia mix takes off the oxide layer and starts continuoslly leaching lead into the system. huuummmmm, but then again maybe they planned it that way. The concern about lead in the environment is mainly because of waterfowl picking lead shot off the bottom of waterways to grind food in their gullets. Has been very deadly for them. Reminds me to take the metal detector out to a few shooting spots to get a some.

joe_momma | 09-28-2009 05:46 PM
lead pipes For the Romans - they did use lead pipes, though their habit of boiling wine (reducing) in lead pans to make a sweet syrup was probably a larger factor in lead poisoning. In my building (1906 construction) the original toilet drain was solid lead (easy to deform/shape) and all the drains are lead wool (like steel wool) /oakum seals. The copper gutters were soldered with a tin/lead flux. The incoming water supply may have been a lead/tin flux, though that would have ended in the 1920's.

Tallinthesaddle | 09-29-2009 12:19 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 It is all about mindset. You have to program yourself to get into that mode and put all else out. I got back into shooting about two years ago, money wise for sure according to my wife. I started out with 9mm and got adjusted to that pretty quickly. I then went out and bought a .45 Springfield XD compact that was quite a shock. I traded it for a Ruger. I worked my way up and finally bought a 1911 and because of the weight, I can do fine with it. The weight of the pistol is a real tamer for recoil. The same with the .308. There is a difference between it and a .223. I can shoot my AR for a long time but can feel a .308 after the first shot.

Ag_man | 09-29-2009 01:22 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Doubtful what you were picking up was metallic lead, most likely galena (lead sulfide, 87% lead content). Lead does occur rarely in its native form, in small amounts, in a few locales. Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1944817) In our state we have some area's where lead is mined, when i was a child you could pan some streams in our beautiful forests for Lead and just pick it up off of the ground similar to gold in low areas. the lead in the ground naturally and in the streams naturally here is very pure and would not require a lot of refining, i do not know what alloys they use with the lead when they make bullets but personally i would have Zero issues with lead in the ground unless it has a toxic alloy or you were eating it in your food

electric-amish | 09-29-2009 10:19 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 In ten years you could sneak out there and dig up 100lbs of lead to sell on the black market. E-A

SLV>GLD | 09-29-2009 10:57 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 I'm curious why your handle is "gunDriller" and you are just now getting around to doing any sorts of drills with guns. Seriously, I really would like to know the impetus behind the name because I've been misled for 6 months, now.

TechGuy | 09-29-2009 11:04 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Residential copper pipes are not soldered with solder containing lead since about 1980. This was officially banned in 1986. Any newer houses with copper pipes should not have lead solder UNLESS the plumber did so illegally.

TechGuy | 09-29-2009 11:08 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 PS> If you have issues with putting lead into the ground (I usually shoot at shooting ranges for this reason) then you can buy lead free ammo in many common calibers. It WILL cost you though. Just remember, copper jacketed bullets, FMJ, do not expose much lead if any at all to the environment unless they have been damaged by hitting hard targets. Punching paper with them is pretty easy on the jacket.

gpond | 09-29-2009 11:28 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Lead is part of the environment. They dig it up out of the ground. That is where it comes from. You can't kill mother earth with lead. :yes:

I am me, I am free | 09-29-2009 11:38 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Lead tire weights are no more, so the writing is on the wall, lead ammo will be banned at some point in the future. Better buy your ammo now while it's still somewhat reasonable.

TTAZZMAN | 09-30-2009 12:05 AM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 1946280) Doubtful what you were picking up was metallic lead, most likely galena (lead sulfide, 87% lead content). Lead does occur rarely in its native form, in small amounts, in a few locales.
After looking at some online pictures i would agree with you what i was picking up was mostly Galena after investigating a bit i guess the area i visited as a child was the "lead belt" in missouri and as per wickapedia is the world largest lead producing area producing 92% of the us supply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_Belt learn something every day on GIM

TomD | 09-30-2009 12:28 AM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Lead only leaches in acidic conditions, the more acidic the worse. Working from memory here but as long as pH is 6 or above, no problem. pH control is a big part of range lead management practice. Man has enthusiastically put lead in the ground for hundreds of years resulting in all of these horrible problems--- Wait a minute, what problems? Never mind.

meatman | 09-30-2009 08:04 AM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1944494) Meh dont even worry about lead......... Worry about the Companies like Monsanto and Dupont who pay a couple million dollars to a hand full of lackeys that get to polute the water supply directly with a few permits and "special regulations" Shooting metal is not even on the radar....... T
but god dam my lawn sure gets green

Fatboy | 09-30-2009 09:11 AM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1944494) Meh dont even worry about lead......... Worry about the Companies like Monsanto and Dupont who pay a couple million dollars to a hand full of lackeys that get to polute the water supply directly with a few permits and "special regulations" Shooting metal is not even on the radar....... T
Oh, but I disagree: http://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/45036.html $4.8 million and a few years to remove 1,820 cubic yards of lead contaminated soil, something in excess of 300,000 tons of soil. There have been many gun clubs nationwide that have been forced to "cleanup" their ranges or face loss of their insurance and many have been forced to close for this reason (loss of insurance). It is a new nitch market, cleaning up gun ranges that is.

Ag_man | 09-30-2009 01:15 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by I am me, I am free (Post 1947272) Lead tire weights are no more, so the writing is on the wall, lead ammo will be banned at some point in the future. Better buy your ammo now while it's still somewhat reasonable.
When did that happen? I'm not surprised. Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1947303) After looking at some online pictures i would agree with you what i was picking up was mostly Galena after investigating a bit i guess the area i visited as a child was the "lead belt" in missouri and as per wickapedia is the world largest lead producing area producing 92% of the us supply http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_Belt learn something every day on GIM
The Mo-Kansas-Oklahoma lead belt is definetly unique in the US, as far as I know, where the primary metal produced is lead and copper/other metals are a side product. I just saw a piece on the History Channel last night on lead, very interesting. Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatboy (Post 1947611) Oh, but I disagree: http://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/45036.html $4.8 million and a few years to remove 1,820 cubic yards of lead contaminated soil, something in excess of 300,000 tons of soil. There have been many gun clubs nationwide that have been forced to "cleanup" their ranges or face loss of their insurance and many have been forced to close for this reason (loss of insurance). It is a new nitch market, cleaning up gun ranges that is.
So true. i know a skeet range over by Chicago that closed, instead of paying for the decontamination. There will be a lot more of this in the future. "Think of the chlidren'... etc.

Hi-yo, Silver! | 09-30-2009 01:58 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller (Post 1944283) DAMN, it was scary. i almost felt like crying. when you realize what you're holding in your hand & what it's capable of.
Erm, no pun intended, honestly, but are you female? Again I'm just thinking asking, maybe you were nurtured right and I'm just wacko, b/c I remember when I first fired guns, 1st a 9mm then the .45acp on the same day, and when I switched I thought, "Holy mother...SWEET!" Then my friend said I looked like this :biggrin: for a while No, not braggin just saying mine was quite an opposite reaction, maybe you felt like crying as a result of joy, that would explain it too.

goldwish | 09-30-2009 02:50 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-yo, Silver! (Post 1948081) Erm, no pun intended, honestly, but are you female? Again I'm just thinking asking, maybe you were nurtured right and I'm just wacko, b/c I remember when I first fired guns, 1st a 9mm then the .45acp on the same day, and when I switched I thought, "Holy mother...SWEET!" Then my friend said I looked like this :biggrin: for a while No, not braggin just saying mine was quite an opposite reaction, maybe you felt like crying as a result of joy, that would explain it too.
wait till she/he shoots a 12-gauge boomstick :565: :15_1_70v: :5_1_120: :RockOn: edit: btw this comment is not meant to be condescending. I think this new shooter has a deep respect for firearms now and more than an inkling of why the fight to keep and bare arms is so fervent. I wish you well and much fun too in your journey!

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- - First time Handgun Training - using a .45 (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=411162)

smullen | 09-30-2009 04:53 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller (Post 1944283) i went with another GIM'er to a gravel pit in a national forest where it is the custom to shoot guns. we shot about 15 magazines of .45 handguns. then he shot several magazines on a .308 rifle and a few chamber-fulls on a 12 gauge shotgun. DAMN, it was scary. i almost felt like crying. when you realize what you're holding in your hand & what it's capable of. i couldn't tell if i was hitting the target because it was an old computer & the bullet just goes right through. but i got more comfortable with the various aspects, e.g. grip, breathing, managing the safety, which part of my index finger to use to pull the trigger, stance, pushing forward with right arm, pulling back with left hand, all those kinds of little details. i couldn't help but do the math, we left about 10 pounds of lead buried in the ground. based on the number of shotgun shells on the ground, it was obvious that dozens if not hundreds of such sessions had gone on there. i guess it's customary to not worry about the toxicity of the lead. it was paradoxical, there we are in a beautiful forest burying lead in the ground. anyway i'm grateful for the training.
Thats pretty cool, out shooting with another GIM'er.... Just went to the range I belong to Sunday (Arnold Rifle and Pistol)... I went by myself as my two shooting buds backed out at the last minute.... I went through about (50) .45 rounds, (150) .40 rounds, (200) 5.56 rounds and like (20) 9 mm rounds, some guy let me shoot his MAC-10... Myself I've never been scared or fearful when shooting as I've pretty much been raised around Firearms my whole life... Pops started me out on a .22, then advanced to the .410, then 12 ga, then .308 on and on... When I got into my teens I started buying and collecting my own Firearms as I could afford them... When my daughter was 11, I started taking her to the ranges to teach her Firearms saftey and how do shoot... Its funny, not saying shes ready for any kind of a shooting team or anything, but she shoots better than some guys I know... Good to see you out shooting and using your 2A...

AurumAg | 10-01-2009 05:19 AM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 The first time I fired a 1911 I did not cry. Must be a Testosterone thing...

TomD | 10-01-2009 07:02 AM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 In 1970, at Marine Infantry Training, we fired M-16's, .45 ACP, M-60's, M-2's (50 cal), 75 mm recoilless, WW II era bazookas, M72 rocket launchers, M79 grenade launchers, fragmentation grenades and got to blow shit up with blocks of TNT. We were in heaven.

gunDriller | 10-01-2009 10:36 AM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-yo, Silver! (Post 1948081) Erm, no pun intended, honestly, but are you female?
no, i'm a guy. normal hetero guy. OK well, the normal part is debate-able. :shine: Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1947232) I'm curious why your handle is "gunDriller" and you are just now getting around to doing any sorts of drills with guns. Seriously, I really would like to know the impetus behind the name because I've been misled for 6 months, now.
ask friendly and i'd be happy to answer. in general, i have a lot of metal-working experience. my first exposure to gun-drilling was in using it to help manufacture a microwave instrumentation project/product in the mid-1980's. my username is an indication of something i'm enthusiastic about, it's not an advertisement.

45 ACP | 10-01-2009 01:20 PM
Re: First time Handgun Training - using a .45 Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller (Post 1944283) i guess it's customary to not worry about the toxicity of the lead. it was paradoxical, there we are in a beautiful forest burying lead in the ground.
You are just completing the cycle of life. I mean, the lead comes from the ground to begin with, right?

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