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- - What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=426174)

mouse | 11-22-2009 07:25 PM
What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question I was out back with the wife plinking some today and wanted to try out a new rifle. I got it a while back but have never fired it. It is a Howa 1500 in .223 with a scope. I had scoped it up and dialed it in with a laser bore thingy about 6 months ago. Meanwhile we moved and were busy, etc. So, I have a couple thousand rounds of 5.56*45 green tip that I got from ammoman about probably a year ago. I check the gun, load it up, and click....no fire. Check safety every which way (I had it correct). Ran 10 different rounds through it. Nothing. Pulled the bolt, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it. It cocks as it is supposed to, and seems to be working. The bolt isn't impacting the primer. What the heck am I doing wrong here, has anyone ever had this problem? I feel like a tard and I really wanted to practice with this gun as it would most likely be my "go to" for keeping around the garage or in the truck when working around the property. It's a varmint gun, pretty much. Thanks for any help.

gbgunner | 11-22-2009 07:28 PM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question I took an AR armorer class a few years ago. Wondering if it has something to do with the chamber and the angle of the ammo case. .223 and 5.56 are not exactly the same. I can't recall what they said the difference was but they made sure we knew there was one.

SilverCity | 11-22-2009 07:34 PM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question New? If the rifle is a custom .223 chambering with a short, tight throat, the Nato cartridge might not chamber without a little difficulty. Check your owners manual for ammunition recommendations. Take it back to where you bought it or the nearest authorized service rep for repair. You may have a problem with the firing pin more than likely... Also, green tip probably won't shoot very well unless you have a 1:10, 1:9, 1:8, or 1:7 rate of twist. Try 55gr if it doesn't shoot well.

CyberGold | 11-22-2009 07:49 PM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question +1 on the firing pin, either broken or there is grease or manuf debris hanging it up. Try soaking/flushing the bolt in HOT water or some solvent as it might just be dried grease. be sure to clean and dry it before use. Page 22 of this manual tells you how to take the bolt apart for better cleaning... http://www.legacysports.com/pdfs/Howa1500%20Manual.pdf Also it is not recommended to shoot military 5.56 in a .223 chamber - the specs are slightly different and there is more lead in the 5.56 throat. Pressures can climb fast if the bullet is touching the lands in the .223 throat. That said YMMV, people shoot mil ball in bolt guns all the time, but you do so at your own risk.

mouse | 11-22-2009 07:49 PM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question Thanks guys. It's even stupider than that. I pulled the bolt and it's a rim fire pin. They made these guns in 22, 223 and 308. The barrel says 223, the bolt is a 22 bolt. I called the shop I bought it from and they checked a couple, said the pin for the 223 is on center. Talk about stupid. Best to find this out before the fan hits the splat, you know. I have moved, so now I have to talk to the manager of the store to figure out if they can mail me the bolt or if I need to deal with the manufacturer. Silly stuff. Anway, had some fun banging a bunch of rounds through a couple sks (really like these) and a tikka T3 in 308. Wife loves the tikka, with the recoil suppressor that thing really throws some wind. Many beer cans and targets were injured today. Shame about the howa though.

SilverCity | 11-22-2009 07:53 PM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question I would have a competent gunsmith check the headspace when you get the new bolt, just to be sure...

CyberGold | 11-22-2009 08:40 PM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question I would bet money that the dealer/gunshop you bought it from mixed the bolts up. Don't manuf test fire guns before shipping?

TTAZZMAN | 11-22-2009 10:05 PM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question yeah someone just switched the bolts yes have a competent gun smith check the headspace after you get the correct bolt the chamber should be fine rethink and research the use of 5.56 ammo in a 223 sami chambered rifle before you start shooting that is a major screwup on the sellers part thank gawd the rifle didnt fire i doubt the 22 bolt could have taken the pressure i guess there is a slim possibility the rifle was sent out with the wrong barrel mounted in that case i am not sure if the reciever is heavy enough i recommend a competent gun smith review the rifle before fireing again

Fullpower | 11-22-2009 11:09 PM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question How is it possible to fit a .22 rimfire bolt into a .223 chambered breach? I hope you are able to find some competent assistance before you cause injury to yourself.

mouse | 11-23-2009 02:06 AM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 2039892) How is it possible to fit a .22 rimfire bolt into a .223 chambered breach? I hope you are able to find some competent assistance before you cause injury to yourself.
You tell me, smartass. Your post was unnecessary to the conversation and I don't appreciate it. Thanks.

mouse | 11-23-2009 03:21 AM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question As for the ammo, this is what I bought, it was pretty clearly supposed to be .223 and I don't think it's the problem. I am curious as to responses that say the nato is not a .223, etc. Please tell me the differences. I am starting to lean to the idea that this bolt is defective, not that it's a .22 rimfire. http://www.ammoman.com/images4/223-62GR-PRIVI-3.jpg M855 SS109 GREEN TIP AMMO 2008 PRODUCTION 223 62 GRAIN FULL METAL JACKET STEEL PENETRATOR CORE MADE BY PRIVI PARTIZAN IN SERBIA BRAND NEW - BOXER PRIMED AND RELOADABLE NON CORROSIVE This is 100% 5.56 x 45mm 62 gr. M855 SS109 ammunition, brass case, boxer primed, non-corrosive, Penetrator Projectile. This ammunition was produced recently, 20 Rds. Per Box 200/Sealed Plastic - 1,000-per Carton

exporter | 11-23-2009 03:39 AM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question Mouse, I dont think Howa markets a .22 rimfire rifle in the US, but sells a 22-250 rifle which may explain things. The howa bolt has an M16/AR15 style ejector that looks like a .22 rimfire firing pin (off center), but its not. Try calling Legacy/Howa and explain the danger of the situation, and for liability reasons I'd think they would be willing to help. Pic of Howa bolt head: http://guntech.com/custom/extractor1.jpg

mouse | 11-23-2009 04:02 AM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question Nice tits on the san onofro avatar. Thanks, I think you are right. I dissassembled/re-assembled the bolt. There is nothing wrong with it, I suspect it's the 22-250 bolt. I am gonna call legacy sports tomorrow. I really appreciate the help from the helpful people here :)

eat_beef | 11-23-2009 08:53 AM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question Does the Howa have some kind of Klintoon lock (like the J locks on Remingtons)? Other than that it's most likely the gunk in FP channel as mentioned above. Your ammo is 5.56, not 223. Of course lying scumbag cheats like ammobuffoon mislabel it to boost sales. Great company with which to deal.:banghead: The Howa has a strong action, it'll probably handle it, but then again, it's your face you're gambling.

Early Cuyler | 11-23-2009 08:55 AM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question I thought the commercial .223 was hotter than 5.56? I can never keep that straight. I see now I have it backwards, as usual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Re...s_5.56_mm_NATO Quote:
Using 5.56mm NATO mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223 Remington chambered rifle can lead to excessive wear and stress on the rifle and even be unsafe, and the SAAMI recommends against the practice.

S_Goldberg | 11-23-2009 12:23 PM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question The difference is chamber dimension and pressure. Running NATO spec ammo in SAMMI spec chamber is not recommended. You run the risk of generating a dangerous over pressure. While you probably won't blow yourself up, you will wear all of the associated parts much more quickly. The parts were designed with SAMMI spec pressures in mind.

mouse | 11-23-2009 05:08 PM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question I called legacy sports and they are sending me a new bolt. The serial number of the rifle was included in a recall for defective bolts. I also discussed the 5.56 v .223 debate with the rep on the phone. He told me there is absolutely no reason to be concerned and the primary difference in remington .223 proprietary v a nato 5.56 is if you were to reload them. He said the pressure is the same and it's no danger or concern whatsoever. So unless he is also a fool, I think I will just get my new bolt and go ahead and use the gun with the ammo I have. I am interested in further debate on the ammunition question if anyone wants to chime in. Thanks

TTAZZMAN | 11-23-2009 05:33 PM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question just google " 223 vs 5.56 " and you will get more opinions than you can digest in a week but the arguement is similar to the 308 vs 7.62nato different pressures....different chamber sizes......thicker brass.....different headspaces.... after reading through tons of stuff in the past i have just started using the ammo the gun is chambered for

SilverCity | 11-23-2009 06:09 PM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question Quote:
Originally Posted by mouse (Post 2041191) I am interested in further debate on the ammunition question if anyone wants to chime in. Thanks
My concern was not so much safety-wise, but accuracy. If your rifle has 1:12 twist rate barrel, the 62gr Green Tip will probably not be the most accurate. If it's 1:12 (common in bolt guns), 62gr green tip may have trouble stabilizing because the rifling rate of twist is TOO SLOW for that bullet weight. Again, read your owners manual for recommended ammunition. General Rule: 1:12 twist--45gr to 60gr bullets 1:9 twist--45gr to 69gr, maybe 75gr bullets 1:8 or 1:7 twist--55gr to 80gr bullets

exporter | 11-24-2009 03:14 AM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question Mouse, The Prvi 62 gr. is good ammo, its just not the best choice in ammo for your Howa. I'm sure you could sell/trade it to someone with an AR-15 who wants this type of ammo. You'll be best served with 55gr. and under ammo for this rifle (guessing 52 gr. will be a sweet spot).

mouse | 11-24-2009 03:49 AM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question Thanks to all who have chimed in, also like to hear some other opinions. At this point, I am trying to just get my rifles sighted in and grouping. I don't have years and thousands of rounds behind me, this is really most of my experience other than childhood hunting and handguns over the last couple years. I have what I have in terms of rifles and ammo and working to get comfortable using them and to make them at least useable in terms of dialing in. I don't think I am anywhere near picking a particular ammo weight. I am just trying to get the scope or the irons to get me on the target right now. I am lucky in that both of the SKS I have (one sights, one naked) are hitting what I aim at. This is not controlled, this is standing up and shooting a rifle and I am not well trained. The Tikka both wife and I were able to get on target, but first time shooting it, we were only about 30-50 yards and using way too much glass for the job. That was dialed in with a laser bore inside my old house, so probably rough adjusted the scope at 15 yards. Was happy to have guns work, some experience in shooting them and dropping targets we had set up. The Howa really irks me, there should not be a rifle go out the door that hasn't been fired. I will see how that works out. In the meantime, I really don't know rifles or a lot of other things. I appreciate all the useful help that people here can provide. I am trying to learn and getting some good info, so keep it coming. The funny thing is that the best performer of the rifles 52 and 54 tula, one with cheapie scope and other just irons, and super expensive tikka t3 with leopold scope, the best performer was the sks with the cheapie scope. Just hammers the target. I got really lucky on that one, I just dissassembled and cleaned it and checked it over, put the scope on it as it as mounted to the receiver cover and it worked great. It's a little to the left but that might be my handling of the recoil. The second best was the iron sights sks. The expensive tikka will need to have its day in a much further out practice session. The very expensive scope was practically unusable at the distance we were shooting. It still managed to put holes in the targets. The power of the .308 with a recoil suppressor is pretty cool though. I think my wife is the sniper, she was totally into that gun. The SKS with the 4X is my favorite. I hope to learn more from all of you, so thanks again and keep suggesting. I will post up as I get more into grouping each gun. I was just trying to get some seat time with each. I have a lot of more training to do in order to get accurate.

Absintheur | 11-24-2009 06:57 AM
Re: What am I doing wrong? Idiot rifle question If there was a recall I would assume it was due to the firing pin not being in spec...it was too short most likely and thus not hitting the primer. You are correct in the assumption this rifle should have been test fired before leaving the factory but mistakes happen. When I had my shop I ordered a gun from the Colt Custom shop and it showed up with an unrifled barrel. When you get the new bolt see if a local shop a set of head space gauges and check things out (any decent shop should have them) before heading to the range. Hopefully this will solve the problem, if not ionquire about sending the rifle to a certified repair center, ask for a call tag as you should not be responsible for the shipping costs.

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