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- - "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=440893)

917601 | 01-19-2010 12:44 AM
"Jesus rifles"-ABC report. So much for ABC "news"-"secret coded references?"-it has for thousands of years been called "The Bible","Scriptures",and the most widely published book in man's recorded history. "U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes " Pentagon Supplier for Rifle Sights Says It Has 'Always' Added New Testament References...... http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-mil...ory?id=9575794 ENJOY.(Ah,where can I get one?)

Apocalypto | 01-19-2010 12:46 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. And the Muslims are extreme.

cpy911 | 01-19-2010 12:51 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. US Military does not have to buy them. They can go buy the sights somewhere else if they don't want a product with these markings. No one is holding a gun to their head. The sight mfg. can put anything they want on their site, even a big Mickey Mouse or Barbie, but no one will buy them. That is the free market, or at least how it used to be. If the US Military asks them to remove the markings, and they refuse, they lose business and it's as simple as that. Of course we are living in National Socialism now, so anything is possible. PS US Military approved the device, so they knew the markings were there...if they were not smart enough to procure a device without these markings that they didn't want, they should hire better procurement people. However, IF the mfg is putting these markings on after approval, that is a no-no, their devices are now out of specification and can be rejected until they meet the specification.

Bx3 | 01-19-2010 01:30 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Who the hell cares what is written on the side of one of the most effective weapons sights ever devised. They are meant for killing. Like it or not, this country was founded on Judeo Christian values. Regardless of why we are over there, right, wrong or indifferent, our enemies see this as a war of religion. Nothing is going to change that, even if there was a script from the Quran etched into the side. If they don't like it, let them eat swine.:rofl: Bx3

HirokoGetting | 01-19-2010 01:52 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Who cares this is so not news maybe the liberal media could focus for a time on the economy and jobs. Instead of this nonsense bs.

SilverCity | 01-19-2010 01:55 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. I think it's cool. :wink:

morganchaser | 01-19-2010 02:31 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Speaking as an atheist who believes in a STRONG seperation of church and state: Trijicon makes a damn good sight and I'm not going to jeopordize american lives making a scene over this if they pay tribute to their founder via cryptic stampings. Any sort of belly aching from the military on this is just going to reduce quality control from trijicon and put troops at risk. **** it. Our soldiers deserve the best, even if the best is branded with bible adverts.

bwelkk | 01-19-2010 02:36 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 2134423) Judeo Christian values.
Uh oh, now you've gone and said the J word. IBTL

Spirit of '76 | 01-19-2010 03:57 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 2134442) I think it's cool. :wink:
Consistent is the word I would use. Religions, all of them, have been responsible for the mass majority of Wars and suffering in Mankind's History, its only consistent that they would inscribe a reference to their respective passage 'inflicting righteous justice' on these weapons of death in the hands of mercenaries. Hell, didn't Bush II say he had a divine intervention with his God to invade Iraq/Afghanistan... akin to some Joan of Arc fable. Some things never change. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 2134423) Who the hell cares what is written on the side of one of the most effective weapons sights ever devised. They are meant for killing. Like it or not, this country was founded on Judeo Christian values. Regardless of why we are over there, right, wrong or indifferent, our enemies see this as a war of religion. Nothing is going to change that, even if there was a script from the Quran etched into the side. If they don't like it, let them eat swine.:rofl: Bx3
Also, with the exception of maybe Adam's, most Founders never actually revealed their affiliation to a sect/cult/religion. Jefferson was perhaps the only one who made his stance known, and its not in your favor. They limited themselves to use phrases like 'Creator' and 'Maker' not Jesus or Yahweh . But then I'm using facts when speaking to a militant zealot and, unfortunately, that is essentially as useful as talking to a wall--except the wall isn't as dense.

shades2 | 01-19-2010 04:11 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Luckily they didn't go ahead and inscribe this one then (language warning): You Tube
You Tube
(And yes I know it's not a proper direct Bible quote...)

____hoot____ | 01-19-2010 06:05 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Bad people kill good people, bad people kill bad people, good people kill bad people, these are just the natural way of things;........... but to get good people to kill good people you need "religion"

I am me, I am free | 01-19-2010 07:14 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 2134423) Who the hell cares what is written on the side of one of the most effective weapons sights ever devised. They are meant for killing. Like it or not, this country was founded on Judeo Christian values. Regardless of why we are over there, right, wrong or indifferent, our enemies see this as a war of religion. Nothing is going to change that, even if there was a script from the Quran etched into the side. If they don't like it, let them eat swine.:rofl: Bx3
You could not be more mistaken, as there is no such thing.

bfnelson | 01-19-2010 09:26 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Well it is only fitting, these are the modern crusades.

CyberGold | 01-19-2010 09:36 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Just maybe ... there might be a flood of surplus ACOG's hit the market at really cheap prices (I hope I hope). Get the complete set- collect all variations. Which inscription will be the most sought after? [sarcasm :sarcasm: mode off]

Bx3 | 01-19-2010 09:43 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit of '76 (Post 2134511) But then I'm using facts when speaking to a militant zealot and, unfortunately, that is essentially as useful as talking to a wall--except the wall isn't as dense.
Wow, sounds like someones feelings have been hurt by me in the past. I am soooo sorry. I'll get back to you on the "facts" as your personal attacks on me indicate that you still don't have them. For now however, I am off to work, to go play with some of those awful inscribed Trijicon "Jesus" sights! Bx3

J.D.Rockinfeller | 01-19-2010 09:53 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. they have the RIGHT to put ANYTHING they want on their product!.... the fact it pisses off the jewsmedia, is reason alone to LOVE it!:23_28_100s: there would be NO story at all in the mainstream press if it were a talmudic inscription.

917601 | 01-19-2010 09:54 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGold (Post 2134731) Just maybe ... there might be a flood of surplus ACOG's hit the market at really cheap prices (I hope I hope). Get the complete set- collect all variations. Which inscription will be the most sought after? [sarcasm :sarcasm: mode off]
Psalm 91 would be my pick.

Junior Ganymede Club | 01-19-2010 09:57 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. You don't have to be a Christian or theist to know that Christians have a holy book called the Bible, and that it's divided into "chapters" and "verses". But in the ABC News headline and story, we're told, breathlessly, wow, what a scoop, that "Secret Jesus Bible Codes" are inscripted on "Jesus Rifles" ... What is this ... third grade? Really, sparky? Good reporting there, scoop. This is just such an important story. I'm so glad you've discovered this for us. It will truly change my life.

Apocalypto | 01-19-2010 11:02 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by J.D.Rockinfeller (Post 2134757) they have the RIGHT to put ANYTHING they want on their product!.... the fact it pisses off the jewsmedia, is reason alone to LOVE it!:23_28_100s: there would be NO story at all in the mainstream press if it were a talmudic inscription.
People of all religions do this kind of thing. Sometimes your God wants you to kill. Israeli children writes messages on bombs; arab neighbors respond

goldmonkey | 01-19-2010 12:56 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
"It's wrong, it violates the Constitution, it violates a number of federal laws," said Michael "Mikey" Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an advocacy group that seeks to preserve the separation of church and state in the military. "It allows the Mujahedeen, the Taliban, al Qaeda and the insurrectionists and jihadists to claim they're being shot by Jesus rifles," he said.
I love the hypocrisy of the Tribe!

kitsune | 01-19-2010 01:05 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGold (Post 2134731) Just maybe ... there might be a flood of surplus ACOG's hit the market at really cheap prices (I hope I hope). Get the complete set- collect all variations. Which inscription will be the most sought after? [sarcasm :sarcasm: mode off]
This was my first thought when I read the news. Literally jumped out of my seat screaming with joy... What, like 800,000 milsurp ACOGs? :emotions16: Plus, I like the biblical serial number easter-egg.

DodgebyDave | 01-19-2010 01:13 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. REMF's. Always spoiling the fun. And how long did it take these mental midgets to figure this out? And not a bit of stink over the NWO Glocks. During GW1 it was common practice to write all kinds of neat stuff on military ordinance....... Signs, epithets and oaths has adorned military hardware since, well, mankind figured out how to keep score. Yeah, people cried stuff about WW2 aircraft nose art. The directive to remove it was greeted with "OK, then you fly it". I served with a 6'8" 280 pounder that ran an M-60 like most men treat a sexy woman. He also had John 3:16 carved into the furniture. You tell him to take it off. As far as I was concerned in the field he was Jesus Christ. Myself personally, wtf. This is the same as telling a football player he can't wear the black things under their eyes. You might look too intimidating to the other players. These are precisely the reasons I left the military, and tell young people not to get jacked so that the impotent can be safe. :puke:

Haltiat | 01-19-2010 02:40 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by I am me, I am free (Post 2134596) You could not be more mistaken, as there is no such thing.
Yeah, I was going to ask which Jewish values America was founded on? I guess pedantic legalism is rife in modern America but that isn't what it was founded on.

chad | 01-19-2010 02:56 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. there's a thread on this over at democratic underground. last time i checked, they were trying to figure out if the jesus writing was on the side of the scope, or if you could see it superimposed on people through the reticle. i shit you not.

The Argent Dragon | 01-19-2010 03:19 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by bwelkk (Post 2134471) Uh oh, now you've gone and said the J word. IBTL
No need 4 a lock yet, but the J-word might get it moved to the Religious category. :bear_tongue:

G-khan | 01-19-2010 03:25 PM
US Military Rifles Have Bible Scriptures Inscribed You Tube
You Tube

wallew | 01-19-2010 03:40 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Weinstein, an attorney and former Air Force officer, said many members of his group who currently serve in the military have complained about the markings on the sights. He also claims they've told him that commanders have referred to weapons with the sights as "spiritually transformed firearm[s] of Jesus Christ." Here is the ATTORNEY for this group using HEARSAY (talk to an attorney if that's confusing) about things that are SUPPOSED to have been said by commanders. And truth be told, every scripture put ON the night sight Trijicon ACOG had to do WITH LIGHT. Go read them. THEY ARE ALL DIRECTLY TO DO WITH LIGHT. Trijicon is THE BEST sight out there as of right now. There may be new ones coming down the pike, but for now, Trijicon is it. Kinda doubt the military will remove them from service. As long as they issue the M4 or have it in their armory storage facilities there won't be any ACOGS coming up through mil surp line any time soon. Once the military finds an optic that is superior to the ACOG, then AND ONLY THEN will they let go of the ACOG.

The Argent Dragon | 01-19-2010 03:53 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. *BUMP* Thread was 'merged' (EDIT : to thoroughly confuse everyone, I moved it back to Firearms) ~AD~

2110 | 01-19-2010 04:17 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by goldmonkey (Post 2135048) I love the hypocrisy of the Tribe!
You Tube
You Tube

The Argent Dragon | 01-19-2010 04:31 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 2135367) Just wait until they hear about the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
Hey, don't laugh.........I have one of those ! :yes:

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philobeddoe | 01-19-2010 04:35 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 2134423) Who the hell cares what is written on the side of one of the most effective weapons sights ever devised. They are meant for killing. Like it or not, this country was founded on Judeo Christian values. Regardless of why we are over there, right, wrong or indifferent, our enemies see this as a war of religion. Nothing is going to change that, even if there was a script from the Quran etched into the side. If they don't like it, let them eat swine.:rofl: Bx3
No it wasn't. United States was founded on freemason, esoteric mumbo jumbo, with an anti catholic twist.

DC7 | 01-19-2010 04:50 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Ok..... Now I'm all curious...... Anyone know what verse from Revelation is on there? Quote:
Other references include citations from the books of Revelation, Matthew and John dealing with Jesus as "the light of the world." John 8:12, referred to on the gun sights as JN8:12, reads, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life
Edit: Ah.... 21:24?

The Argent Dragon | 01-19-2010 04:59 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by philobeddoe (Post 2135466) .......with an anti catholic twist.
Ok, what's the anti-Catholic twist ? Enquiring mind wants to know.

Haltiat | 01-19-2010 08:11 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 2135518) Ok, what's the anti-Catholic twist ? Enquiring mind wants to know.
I was pretty sure it was the Church of England they were trying to get away from, hence the prohibition against establishing an official state religion and hence the controversy over this particular optic.

<SLV> | 01-19-2010 08:11 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Trijicon will make lots of private sales off this press. Guaranteed. Makes me wish I could afford a couple.

cpy911 | 01-19-2010 08:18 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. 1 Attachment(s) Jesus likes Winchesters too.

Bx3 | 01-20-2010 03:28 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit of '76 (Post 2134511) Also, with the exception of maybe Adam's, most Founders never actually revealed their affiliation to a sect/cult/religion. Jefferson was perhaps the only one who made his stance known, and its not in your favor. They limited themselves to use phrases like 'Creator' and 'Maker' not Jesus or Yahweh . But then I'm using facts when speaking to a militant zealot and, unfortunately, that is essentially as useful as talking to a wall--except the wall isn't as dense.
Such limited scope, such limited knowledge.......OOPS! You remember these guys, don't you? Quote:
http://www.allabouthistory.org/mayflower-compact.htm Mayflower Compact � What did it say? The original document is said to have been lost, but the writings of William Bradford�s journal Of Plymouth Plantation and in Edward Winslow�s Mourt�s Relation: A Journal of the Pilgrims at Plymouth are in agreement and accepted as accurate. The Mayflower Compact reads: "In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, e&. Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia; do by these presents, solemnly and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord, King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini, 1620."
Hmmm......You list one founding member that supports your position out of literally hundreds? That's conclusive!:sarc: Quote:
Worth reading all of the headers. http: //earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm Another source and comprehensive list. http://www.adherents.com/gov/Foundin..._Religion.html Yet another good source and probably the best. http://www.jameswatkins.com/foundingfathers.htm Sir William Blackstone, who's works are considered one of the more important influences on the American legal system. http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/blackstone.asp And.....some more..... http://www.heritage.org/Research/Pol...osophy/fp7.cfm
For I am free and Haltiat....just so you know where the predominant Western religions originated from....sigh. Quote:
Origins of the King James Bible came from...... http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/hi...-the-bible.htm[/URL]
Do you get it yet? For anyone else who is still confused....I can't help you. Now that we have dispensed with "THE FACTS", back to the original programing. Bx3

Spirit of '76 | 01-20-2010 05:31 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Was that a (poor attempt) play on words? The Pilgrims were not Founders of the short lived US Republic, look at the Articles of Confederation and recall all those witch hunts and tell me they are even remotely comparable to its values. Care to visit why Thanksgiving was actually celebrated and then contrast that with The Deceleration of Independence and our inalienable Rights (read: property rights)? As I said you're not very bright, and you have once again demonstrated that here; what you just linked to re-iterates what I have said, all but Adam's were not affiliated with any sect/cult/Religion as they were Deists, which is what I'm refereed to as well--except I hate such type casts/generalizations--on the premise that I loath organized Religion, but ascribe to the notion of a God. God and Religion are not mutually exclusive, while I do capitalize the word, just as monotheistic practices do, I do not affiliate with Yahweh/Allah/Jesus/Buddah/Dharma/Zeus et al... Neither did most of the Founders as your links explain. The first link alone delves into this. Take another Mercury laden anthrax shot, soldier. It'll rid you of those 2 or 3 spooky things called neurons that remain in that thick skull of yours. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 2136623) Such limited scope, such limited knowledge.......OOPS! You remember these guys, don't you? Hmmm......You list one founding member that supports your position out of literally hundreds? That's conclusive!:sarc: For I am free and Haltiat....just so you know where the predominant Western religions originated from....sigh. Do you get it yet? For anyone else who is still confused....I can't help you. Redeem yourself and comprise a list of those who are affiliated with organized Religion and were either Federalists or Whigs (Statists). And MAYBE THEN I think you'll see where I'm going with this. Now that we have dispensed with "THE FACTS", back to the original programing. Bx3

Spirit of '76 | 01-20-2010 05:39 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Was that a (poor attempt) play on words? The Pilgrims were not Founders of the short lived US Republic, look at the Articles of Confederation and recall all those witch hunts and tell me they are even remotely comparable to its values. Care to visit why Thanksgiving was actually celebrated and then contrast that with The Deceleration of Independence and our inalienable Rights (read: property rights)? As I said you're not very bright, and you have once again demonstrated that here; what you just linked to re-iterates what I have said, all but Adam's of the three Presidents and predominant Founders were not affiliated with any sect/cult/Religion as they were Deists, which is what I'm refereed to as well--except I hate such typecasts/generalizations--on the premise that I loath organized Religion, but ascribe to the notion of a God. God and Religion are not mutually exclusive, while I do capitalize the word, just as monotheistic practices do, I do not affiliate this entity with Allah/Jesus/Buddah/Dharma/Zeus et al... Neither did most of the Founders as your links explain. The first link alone delves into this. Take another Mercury laden anthrax shot, soldier. It'll rid you of those 2 or 3 spooky things called neurons that remain in that thick skull of yours. Attempt to redeem yourself and comprise a list of those who are affiliated with organized Religion and were either Federalists or Whigs (Statists). And MAYBE THEN I think you'll see where I'm going with this. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 2136623) Such limited scope, such limited knowledge.......OOPS! You remember these guys, don't you? Hmmm......You list one founding member that supports your position out of literally hundreds? That's conclusive!:sarc: For I am free and Haltiat....just so you know where the predominant Western religions originated from....sigh. Do you get it yet? For anyone else who is still confused....I can't help you. Now that we have dispensed with "THE FACTS", back to the original programing. Bx3

DC7 | 01-20-2010 12:44 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Spirit, Quote:
Also, with the exception of maybe Adam's, most Founders never actually revealed their affiliation to a sect/cult/religion. Jefferson was perhaps the only one who made his stance known, and its not in your favor. They limited themselves to use phrases like 'Creator' and 'Maker' not Jesus or Yahweh . But then I'm using facts when speaking to a militant zealot and, unfortunately, that is essentially as useful as talking to a wall--except the wall isn't as dense.
There were many "deists" among the advocates of Liberty and Natural Rights at that time, and likely among some of the Founding Fathers....... so yeah, the term Creator was used so as to include them....... But "Yahweh" wasn't the common term Christians used for the Almighty.... it was "God". And the Founding Fathers did use the word "God". And Jefferson was a Christian and called himself one, even if he didn't subscribe to a particular sect and was against alot of organized religion and sects of his day.

Bx3 | 01-20-2010 01:23 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit of '76 (Post 2136699) Was that a (poor attempt) play on words? The Pilgrims were not Founders of the short lived US Republic, look at the Articles of Confederation and recall all those witch hunts and tell me they are even remotely comparable to its values. Care to visit why Thanksgiving was actually celebrated and then contrast that with The Deceleration of Independence and our inalienable Rights (read: property rights)? As I said you're not very bright, and you have once again demonstrated that here; what you just linked to re-iterates what I have said, all but Adam's of the three Presidents and predominant Founders were not affiliated with any sect/cult/Religion as they were Deists, which is what I'm refereed to as well--except I hate such typecasts/generalizations--on the premise that I loath organized Religion, but ascribe to the notion of a God. God and Religion are not mutually exclusive, while I do capitalize the word, just as monotheistic practices do, I do not affiliate this entity with Allah/Jesus/Buddah/Dharma/Zeus et al... Neither did most of the Founders as your links explain. The first link alone delves into this. Take another Mercury laden anthrax shot, soldier. It'll rid you of those 2 or 3 spooky things called neurons that remain in that thick skull of yours. Attempt to redeem yourself and comprise a list of those who are affiliated with organized Religion and were either Federalists or Whigs (Statists). And MAYBE THEN I think you'll see where I'm going with this.
Why the double post why the double post? Couldn't you get your thoughts in order the first time the first time? Why the personal attacks? You should be able to prove your point without them, that is if your point could stand on it's own in the first place. You forget that I am the only one who has posted any outside information up to this point, from multiple sources, some of it even confirming a portion of your argument, most of it not. You have offered nothing but personal opinions on both this subject and myself. I wonder why that is. BTW, to argue for even one second that the Pilgrims were not also Founders of this country and therefor did not influence it is delusional. Nice try with Thanksgiving, I thought it was just about the turkey.:rofl:Bx3 Oh, I won't be responding to anymore of your personal attacks because my Mommy still loves me, or your baseless opinions. Try finding something that is verifiable (ie.. not from you) and maybe we can talk. Or you can call me sometime and we can hang out. I get so lonely.

teedub31 | 01-20-2010 01:43 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2135927) Trijicon will make lots of private sales off this press. Guaranteed. Makes me wish I could afford a couple.
They are also losing at least one. I was looking at picking up a Trijicon scope,but not now since I am not a big fan of religion and the ills that have accompanied it through out the history of man. The comapny has the right to but what ever crap they want on it, but I as the consumer have the right to spend my FRNs at companies I see fit. I know that I probably buy stuff from companies that don't jive with my ideals. I just don't know it at the time. But when I find out that I am spending moeny at companies like that, I do my best to try an not support them in the future.

GOLD DUCK | 01-20-2010 01:57 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. QWAK,I understand the ancient Romans had a similar problem :yes:with SWARDS and SPEARS -- the manufactures would wright --- "The EMPOROR is ALWAYS RIGHT!" on them and "DEATH to NON BELIEVERS!" --- it very posable/ LIKELY:thinkey: is ware Mohamid got a similar IDEA but Muslems will NEVER admit it!:452: :452: :452: They were later sold as "WAR SURPLUS" and suposed to be BEET in to PLOW SHEARS and PRUNING HOOKS:shine: but many were NOT:36_1_30: and were smugeled out of country to TERRORISTS who hated Rome!:36_1_28: :realmad: :favorites21: the DUCK :15_1_70v: :confused_ma: :10_1_19:

Bx3 | 01-20-2010 02:10 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by teedub31 (Post 2137318) They are also losing at least one. I was looking at picking up a Trijicon scope,but not now since I am not a big fan of religion and the ills that have accompanied it through out the history of man. The comapny has the right to but what ever crap they want on it, but I as the consumer have the right to spend my FRNs at companies I see fit. I know that I probably buy stuff from companies that don't jive with my ideals. I just don't know it at the time. But when I find out that I am spending moeny at companies like that, I do my best to try an not support them in the future.
I respect your position and don't disagree with it. I guess the question that I have is where does one draw the line? I suppose that many here would make the argument not to support a company who does business with our govt/military because they do not agree with what is going on and that also is their right. At what point do you deny yourself certain resources that may be soon needed because of an ideal, however justified. Bx3

Haltiat | 01-20-2010 07:35 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 2136623) For I am free and Haltiat....just so you know where the predominant Western religions originated from....sigh.
The "Jews" of the Old Testament are not the same thing as the Jews of the 18th century. The Old Testament "Jews" either all converted to Christianity(like my ancestors eventually did many centuries later) or simply died out. The Jews of the 18th century were all the spiritual descendants of the Pharisees, sworn enemies of Jesus as you well know. That's the facts. The Sadducees and Essenes all died out leaving only the Pharisees. As descendants of the Pharisees, Jews in our era are deeply concerned with pedantic legalism. Christ and the Founding Fathers fought to free us from pedantic legalism. So again I ask, upon which Jewish values was America founded? The simply fact is "Judeo Christian" is a propaganda word and there is no special relationship between Christianity and Judaism that isn't also shared with the other Abrahamic religions like Baha'i and Islam. Well, maybe with the exception that Islam and Baha'i have a lot more respect for Jesus than Judaism does.

Bx3 | 01-20-2010 09:32 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by Haltiat (Post 2137921) The "Jews" of the Old Testament are not the same thing as the Jews of the 18th century. The Old Testament "Jews" either all converted to Christianity(like my ancestors eventually did many centuries later) or simply died out. The Jews of the 18th century were all the spiritual descendants of the Pharisees, sworn enemies of Jesus as you well know. That's the facts. The Sadducees and Essenes all died out leaving only the Pharisees. As descendants of the Pharisees, Jews in our era are deeply concerned with pedantic legalism. Christ and the Founding Fathers fought to free us from pedantic legalism. So again I ask, upon which Jewish values was America founded? The simply fact is "Judeo Christian" is a propaganda word and there is no special relationship between Christianity and Judaism that isn't also shared with the other Abrahamic religions like Baha'i and Islam. Well, maybe with the exception that Islam and Baha'i have a lot more respect for Jesus than Judaism does.
You bring up some interesting points and it sounds like you know quite a bit about the subject. Do you have any references I could look up. I am sincerely interested in the topic. Specifically the part you mentioned below.. Quote:
The "Jews" of the Old Testament are not the same thing as the Jews of the 18th century. The Old Testament "Jews" either all converted to Christianity(like my ancestors eventually did many centuries later) or simply died out. The Jews of the 18th century were all the spiritual descendants of the Pharisees
If not, I will do what I can to find out for myself. Thanks in advance. Also, just because some terms don't hold a historical reference it does not necessarily negate them. Bx3

Haltiat | 01-21-2010 06:13 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 2138140) You bring up some interesting points and it sounds like you know quite a bit about the subject. Do you have any references I could look up. I am sincerely interested in the topic. Specifically the part you mentioned below.. If not, I will do what I can to find out for myself. Thanks in advance. Also, just because some terms don't hold a historical reference it does not necessarily negate them. Bx3
I don't know what you would accept as sources. Modern Jews themselves readily acknowledge their Pharisee pedigree. To them it isn't a big deal, after all they don't believe Jesus was the Son of God so why should they care what he thought? Here is an article from a Jewish site. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...s_essenes.html Quote:
Of the various factions that emerged under Hasmonean rule, three are of particular interest: the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes. The most important of the three were the Pharisees because they are the spiritual fathers of modern Judaism.
Keep in mind I'm not instructing you to hate Jews or anyone else. I am warning you that they have their own goals and work towards them, just as any political or ethnic group does. It just so happens that their group is over-represented in US mass media, politics and universities. As a result we are fed a rather skewed view of the world, such as the "Judeo Christian" meme when in fact there is a whole family of Abrahamic religions that all sprang forth from the same root. For the most part they can all get along but the Jews and the Muslims have a particularly nasty blood feud and the Jews figured out a while ago that they could exploit the references to "Jews" in the Bible to get Christians to fight for them since the Christian world has so much more military power than either the Jewish or Muslim world.

Bx3 | 01-21-2010 12:11 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Thanks, I will look further into this. Don't you think that considering the origins of the bible that there should not really be any surprise regarding our relationship with modern day Jews, or the ancient Jews for that matter which both end up back to Israel and the ancient Hebrew system? I don't want to go so far as to call it a low level indoctrination but lets face it, if the Quran was the foundation of most Western religions instead of the KJB, our slant would be towards the East. I completely agree with the over representation/lobbying, no way around that. Bx3

GOLD DUCK | 01-21-2010 01:28 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. QWAK,Aproximitly 22K years ago mankind had an advanced civilisation living on this planet and BAD STUFF HAPPENED :yes: :36_1_25: SOooooooooo bad that only about 2000 people SURVIVED :favorites21::36_1_25: Mitacondrial DNA can now trace back every person on earth NOW to the 2000 SURVIVORS!:thinkey: :yes: Not much of THAT world still exists and fragments of what had been were lost as newer civilisations grew out of the fiew who had survived. :36_3_13: :shine: Arguing over who is MOST right about WHAT WAS:confused_ma: :10_1_19: --- based on the 5 or 6 (realy streching it) thousand years of record keeping and bickering :realmad: :favorites21: makes as much SENCE as a bunch of DUNG BEETLES fighting over a large pile of decomposing ELOPHANT SHIT! :elefant: :yes: :111: :cry1: :shine: You Tube
You Tube
No side is RIGHT -- if every body else is WRONG!:452: :signs14: :shine: There is TRUTH in ALL -- not "ALL the TRUTH" but there is TRUTH!:yes: :thinkey: :36_3_13: :shine: "ALL is ONE" :36_3_13: :shine: the DUCK :15_1_70v:

Haltiat | 01-21-2010 04:49 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 2139103) Thanks, I will look further into this. Don't you think that considering the origins of the bible that there should not really be any surprise regarding our relationship with modern day Jews, or the ancient Jews for that matter which both end up back to Israel and the ancient Hebrew system?
You would scarcely recognize the spiritual world of the ancient Hebrews even if you were familiar with modern Jewish beliefs. The ancient Hebrews were de facto polytheistic and their belief system did not spring up out of nowhere, it was heavily influenced by ancient Egyptian beliefs which in turn owe much to the Sumerians. There were even marked differences between modern Judaism and what was practiced by the Pharisees, Sadducees and Essenes of Jesus' time. In fact the Judaism you know is a little younger than Christianity and it would be a grave error to overlook the influence of Greek thought on both religions but most especially Christianity. For instance we know that Jesus spoke Greek but it isn't at all clear that he spoke Hebrew. As a matter of fact Jesus frequently employs Greek style logos when debating the Pharisees and Sadducees. Mary, Joseph and Jesus were likely from the Northern Essenes whose belief system was a stark contrast to that of the Pharisees and Sadducess. It's no coincidence that it was the Essenes who left us the Dead Sea Scrolls. Quote:
I don't want to go so far as to call it a low level indoctrination but lets face it, if the Quran was the foundation of most Western religions instead of the KJB, our slant would be towards the East. I completely agree with the over representation/lobbying, no way around that. Bx3
Ah, but the Koran is based on the same source material as the King James Bible and the Muslims share virtually the whole Old Testament with Christianity, Judaism and Baha'i. Someday the blood feud between the Jews and Muslims will end and all the Abrahamic religions will be able to live with eachother again. When that day comes I have no doubts that the streets will flood with tears as people realize just how much pain, horror and death they inflicted on their brothers and sisters in God. What's being done now isn't being done for God, it's glorifying Molech and Baal.

Junior Ganymede Club | 01-21-2010 06:49 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Way to go, guys. Now I'll never get my special "Secret Jesus Code" Battle Rifle sight-thingy. Sheesh ... Thanks a lot. No More Jesus Rifles After ABC News Report, Trijicon Announces Plan to Remove Bible Codes from Gun Sights Provided to U.S. Military http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jesus-...ory?id=9618791

Bx3 | 01-21-2010 06:53 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Quote:
Originally Posted by Haltiat (Post 2139530) Ah, but the Koran is based on the same source material as the King James Bible and the Muslims share virtually the whole Old Testament with Christianity, Judaism and Baha'i. Someday the blood feud between the Jews and Muslims will end and all the Abrahamic religions will be able to live with eachother again. When that day comes I have no doubts that the streets will flood with tears as people realize just how much pain, horror and death they inflicted on their brothers and sisters in God. What's being done now isn't being done for God, it's glorifying Molech and Baal.
I completely agree with you on the Old Testament being common ground for most religions. It is such a waste that so many cultures have blooded each other for essentially the same beliefs. You obviously know your history and I thank you for the education. Getting back to our original discussion, if I understand you correctly, you do not believe that the Judeo-Christian terminology is applicable to the influences that shaped the early beginnings of our country. Do you believe that any form of religion was instrumental in the founding of our country and if so, is it definable? Dennis Pragers definition of Judeo-Christian beliefs which states; Quote:
The concept of Judeo–Christian values does not rest on a claim that the two religions are identical. It promotes the concept there is a shared intersection of values based on the Hebrew Bible
is what I was referring to when I made my original statements. You may not prefer my terminology but based on our earlier agreement that many old world religions share common ground based on the Hebrew Old Testament, I don't see where there is much to disagree on. I was never inferring that our Founders were or held strictly Jewish beliefs, just some common beliefs. I think that there is a misconception from some that our FF's foresight to separate church from state equated to a lack of religious fundamentals influencing our early development. I see it as exactly the opposite. I would like to continue discussing this topic with you but unfortunately, we may need to move it to the appropriate forum. Bx3

Haltiat | 01-21-2010 08:37 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. According to an earlier post, this thread has already been to the religion forum and came back here. It shouldn't matter since we aren't really discussing religion per se, but history. The problem I have with "Judeo Christian" and even that particular definition you posted is that it is not completely honest because the relationship is not exclusive to Judaism and Christianity. "Abrahamic" is accurate and it's not politically loaded or misleading. There is no question that religious beliefs have a strong influence on cultural values. Even the atheists amongst us have a world view and morality that has been strongly influenced by the religious beliefs that have been with our society for thousands of years. For instance human sacrifice has been a normal part of many societies yet most American atheists would see it as a grievous wrong. Christianity did away with human and animal sacrifice once and for all with Christ and Christianity has been the dominant religion in Europe for 1,000 years. The United States of America were not built as a Christian nation but Christianity in its various forms had an unquestionable influence on its character. What the Founders gave us was not separation of church and state but religious freedom. They were against the establishment of a state religion, not against religion in general. A great many American principles are echoed in Christian teaching. Equality, the right and duty to bear arms, freedom from pedantic legalism, etc. While I can plainly see where Christian values have influenced American culture and our Constitution I cannot think of any distinctly Jewish values that have influenced American traditional culture. Every Jewish value that has influenced our society that I can think of is a relatively recent development and regarded by most traditional Americans as a bad thing. Pedantic legalism, usury, Zionism, etc. They may be the right thing for Jewish society and they may be ideas that work very well in Israel but they aren't right for America. If you can think of any distinctly Jewish values that influenced the Founders I'd love to hear about it. If it's just because Christianity and Judaism are both Abrahamic religions, well, then you may as well say the Founders were influenced by "Judeo-Islam" because it would make as much sense. The single most important point in Christianity is that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the Son of God and his sacrifice paid for all the sins of mankind so we could receive the gift of eternal life. This belief is the heart and soul of what it means to be a Christian. The Jews disagree with every bit of it, the other Abrahamic religions at least agree with parts of it. Maybe America was really founded on "Baha'i-Christian" values?

Bx3 | 01-21-2010 09:08 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Excellent post Haltiat. I commend you. There is nothing that you have written that I can not agree with. I stand partially corrected and more enlightened for this conversation.:coolbeer:Bx3

Haltiat | 01-21-2010 09:16 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. We all come to the forums to learn and discuss. It's great when everybody can walk away from a thread with something. :beer:

Spirit of '76 | 01-23-2010 05:35 AM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. OMG!! HAHAHA! LOLZ!! How funny... they don't have a State-imposed standing army that myopically ravages a nations wealth, how ridiculous. I mean what kind of absurd nation would promote such a notion!! Wait a minute: Article I Section VIII: To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 2140426) New Zealand is pissed. They're gonna grind the letters off the 4 scopes they own and make sure the next one they buy doesn't have it on there. If I were the CEO of Trijicon, I would stop offering lifetime warranties to any altered unit. On a side note, what is the etymology of Zeal-land? :111: [url]http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/01/ap_new_zealand_si Trij has bowed to pressure and is going to stop putting the verses on there. Boo, hiss, boo.

AurumAg | 01-28-2010 07:58 PM
Re: "Jesus rifles"-ABC report. Cool! Now that the cryptic Bible verse truncations are going to be removed from every military unit issued, my ACOG will become an unaltered collector's item which I will be able to sell on ebay for twice the purchase price! I must locate the original packaging! I wonder how much this epic, politically correct "grinding" project will cost? No matter, as its all fiat anyway! I think the terrorists are winning... http://hchq.biz/mia_photos/noveske.jpg Jesus Rifles Rule!

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