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- - The most accurate rifle out of the box (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=257946)

TomD | 04-18-2008 06:19 PM
The most accurate rifle out of the box Would be from Savage Arms. I've run a large number of matches over the last 15 years and found that Savages usually easily win in the stock class. Now they are doing better than that, they are competing with full boat custom rifles at longer range. Here is a discussion on a shooting site about an out of the box Savage winning the Hickory, NC egg shoot, a very hotly contested yearly shoot. http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51200 It was a Savage BVSS in 22-250 that got me into competitive shooting in the early 90's. I still have that rifle though it's on the 5th barrel now and chambered for 6BR, an excellent round for 600 and 1000 yard. I also have a full custom rifle based on a Stolle Grizzly action in 6BRX that will keep the hits in a 10 inch circle at 1000 yards if the wind doesn't get too weird. I shoot tactical matches in Alabama a couple of time a year. At this range you go to the line with 20 rounds. You get no sighters and no foulers and you put 5 rounds at 600 yards, 5 at 800, 900 & 1,000. Tough match, you have to know your rifle well. If any of you are interested in long range shooting, the site http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html is filled with information and articles. When you read the articles from people who have obviously been shooting for a long while, you may change you viewpoint about weaponry. Anyone else here do rifle competition?

the toxic avenger | 04-18-2008 06:30 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box As soon as I saw the thread title I muttered Savage to myself before I clicked on it. I have a basic 110 in .30-06 topped with a Nikon 3-9x40. It's the most accurate rifle I own. If I ever have to make an important shot at much more than 200 yards, that's what I want in my hands.

SilverCity | 04-18-2008 07:03 PM
Not much of a competitive shooter...but many years ago I bought a switch-barrel McMillan BR rifle with 20 inch stainless barrels, built on a Remington 722 action, chambered in 222 and 6x47, topped with a 20X (?) Unertl, hand-loading dies cut from the same barrel blanks, etc. Then decided it was too much to mess with and I was not (at the time) much of a rifle shooter. Years later I thought about dabbling in BR shooting again and bought a Sako Heavy Varmint in 6PPC. I played with that too, for a while. I got it to shoot tiny groups (.250) but again I realized that it takes an "obsessive-compulsive precisionist" to compete successfully, brass was too expensive, didn't want to make my own bullets (Bergers worked well, though) and took too much time away from my other shootin'...:wink: Great hobby though...more power to you. I am still a diehard Remington 700 fan. My stock VSSF will shoot a occasional .25 inch @100 yards and .50 @200 yards with Federal 168 Match. Glass is a Leupold 12x with tapered duplex crosshairs and 1/4 MOA target dot... Also have an old Remington 40-X chambered in 7.62 Nato with a Weaver T-10 scope that shoots the old GI M118 Natl. Match ammo to an honest .50 @ 100 yards...haven't shot it at longer ranges yet...probably shoot that well to 200.

rad | 04-18-2008 07:38 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Thanks, 6mm... looks like a great site

Nanook | 04-18-2008 08:19 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box I answered Savage before clicking on the thread, too. Hands down the most accurate stock rifles I've seen. A good bargain as well. I have a .308 Savage that is scary accurate, even in my hands. :wink:

Irons | 04-18-2008 08:39 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box The barrel to reciever lock on a Savage is hard to beat without spending a lot more money, it is and has been solid as a rock for years. I have done many trigger jobs on Savage rifles, but the new accu trigger that now comes standard on them has done away with that need. A nice tip for you all, if you buy a Savage with a waxy looking ugly wood stock strip it down to nothing, then re-finish it.You may be suprised what is hidden under the cheap finish. My Dad and I stripped a couple waxy yellow looking Savage rifle stocks only to find Beautiful blond tiger stripes that ran vertical the length of the stock on a dark background after we finished them with tung oil. After glass bedding and sealing Those rifles are unique and jaw dropping beautiful. OK enough of the ramble lol, we just find that lots of fun!:D

Twisted Avatar | 04-18-2008 08:49 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 1068268) Would be from Savage Arms. I've run a large number of matches over the last 15 years and found that Savages usually easily win in the stock class. Now they are doing better than that, they are competing with full boat custom rifles at longer range. Here is a discussion on a shooting site about an out of the box Savage winning the Hickory, NC egg shoot, a very hotly contested yearly shoot. http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51200 It was a Savage BVSS in 22-250 that got me into competitive shooting in the early 90's. I still have that rifle though it's on the 5th barrel now and chambered for 6BR, an excellent round for 600 and 1000 yard. I also have a full custom rifle based on a Stolle Grizzly action in 6BRX that will keep the hits in a 10 inch circle at 1000 yards if the wind doesn't get too weird. I shoot tactical matches in Alabama a couple of time a year. At this range you go to the line with 20 rounds. You get no sighters and no foulers and y sOou put 5 rounds at 600 yards, 5 at 800, 900 & 1,000. Tough match, you have to know your rifle well. If any of you are interested in long range shooting, the site http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html is filled with information and articles. When you read the articles from people who have obviously been shooting for a long while, you may change you viewpoint about weaponry. Anyone else here do rifle competition?
I have no experice with rifles but this is the first time I have heard this name So these rifiles are a major cut above remingtons?? T

SilverCity | 04-18-2008 08:58 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1068460) I have no experice with rifles but this is the first time I have heard this name So these rifiles are a major cut above remingtons?? T
Well...probably half the price of the Remington anyway. :wink:

Irons | 04-18-2008 09:14 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1068471) Well...probably half the price of the Remington anyway. :wink:
The problem I have with Remingtons is there are too many grades of them.The Remington you get from walmart needs a lot more work on it to make it accurate than a top grade Remington does. Not an easy one to explain to somebody who thinks thier low grade model 700 should shoot as well as a $1500 model.

cugir321 | 04-18-2008 09:15 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box I'm in the gun business. I talk to many gunshops everyday. I hear a lot of the....I'm rebarreling my Rem 700. I've never heard it on a savage except when they say...man, it's so neat to have one gun and three different caliber barrels. Takes 15-20 minutes to change calibers and zero headspace the gun. If you want one...get the long action!!! It takes almost everything. (no magnums or 223 without bolt change) I've been hearing and seeing good stuff on the savage 10/110 for a couple years. I just broke down and bought a 270 savage 110 used with accutrigger from one of my customers. Can't wait to try it. Also, I'm getting spare a 338-06 barrel. I've got a few custom guns....a 1908 mauser action with a parker hale stock and parker hale sniper barrel. It will do 1/8 inch at 100 yards. I'm more excited about the savage coming! There's nothing better then paying 200.00 (that's what I paid..they're more new) for a gun that shoots gooood! I don't care what it looks like when I'm shooting 400 yards. Just will it hit where I want it! It's rare I hear of a savage that doesn't shoot good...a couple times. Usually a few grinds with a dremel around the pillars so they seat better and an extra look at how the barrel is in the stock and whammo!!! It's a killer.

SilverCity | 04-18-2008 09:31 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box While I like the idea of swapping barrels for utility's sake, I can't help but wonder about losing any fine-edged accuracy if you continue to swap barrels...threads wear down after awhile and one would have to always re-check headspace--of course--but how would barrel harmonics be affected over time with the barrel thread index shifting/rotating due to thread wear? Not sure I would expect top accuracy for long. Oh, and there is that barrel/action bedding issue with different barrel profiles...not sure I would want to take a dremel to the bedding blocks. Yikes.

Irons | 04-18-2008 09:35 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by cugir321 (Post 1068488) I'm in the gun business. I talk to many gunshops everyday. I hear a lot of the....I'm rebarreling my Rem 700. I've never heard it on a savage except when they say...man, it's so neat to have one gun and three different caliber barrels. Takes 15-20 minutes to change calibers and zero headspace the gun. If you want one...get the long action!!! It takes almost everything. (no magnums or 223 without bolt change) I've been hearing and seeing good stuff on the savage 10/110 for a couple years. I just broke down and bought a 270 savage 110 used with accutrigger from one of my customers. Can't wait to try it. Also, I'm getting spare a 338-06 barrel. I've got a few custom guns....a 1908 mauser action with a parker hale stock and parker hale sniper barrel. It will do 1/8 inch at 100 yards. I'm more excited about the savage coming! There's nothing better then paying 200.00 for a gun that shoots gooood! I don't care what it looks like when I'm shooting 400 yards. Just will it hit where I want it! It's rare I hear of a savage that doesn't shoot good...a couple times. Usually a few grinds with a dremel around the pillars so they seat better and an extra look at how the barrel is in the stock and whammo!!! It's a killer.
Nice to meet you! I will see if I can post a pic of my "Prarie dog special".Its a Colt National match target HB carbine flattop,Jard trigger accu wedge 16/32/50 scope.My best hit 432 yards on the bushnell range finder with 62 grain match ammo.the picture may be too big to post. Attachment 42963

jrog100 | 04-18-2008 09:44 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Has anyone brought a Rem 700 or one of those new TC Icons? How o the icons shoot if so?

cugir321 | 04-18-2008 09:48 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box I'll tell you soon....head space shouldn't be a problem. Loosen the nut, take off the extractor, put in a head space gauge or new brass, turn the barrel until it barely touches. Back off a bit if you wish. (most folks back off about .001. I like light zero on my good guns...use the same brass for reloads) Lock the nut. Replace the extractor. Shoot. You can always fix it quickly if it's off. Barrel threads may affect it a little but, my used parker hale .308 sniper barrel (98 mauser) is missing about 1 1/2 inches of two middle threads and still shoots 1/8 groups. It is well bedded...about 2inches in front of the receiver...the barrel weighs about 8 or 9 lbs. There are a lot of 98 mausers that were shot to death, rebarrelled and came back to a wonderous life. In essence....it's a great shooting gun for most people....even if it's not a perfect match gun. 1/4 -1/2 inch at 100 yards is better then most folks see in a lifetime of cheap guns. It's a hunting gun for me....1/2 inch or better will kill out 500 yards easily. You may need reloads and time testing to do it. Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1068500) While I like the idea of swapping barrels for utility's sake, I can't help but wonder about losing any fine-edged accuracy if you continue to swap barrels...threads wear down after awhile and one would have to always re-check headspace--of course--but how would barrel harmonics be affected over time with the barrel thread index shifting/rotating due to thread wear? Not sure I would expect top accuracy for long...

jrog100 | 04-18-2008 09:56 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box I've never been a fan of Savage firearms after remembering the cheap laminate stocks that the 110's had in the 80's. HOWEVER, after hearing and reading about all of the accolades surrounding the new Savage, I'll be buying one as soon as I can scrape some dough together. I'll probably get an odd-6

TomD | 04-19-2008 07:59 AM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1068500) While I like the idea of swapping barrels for utility's sake, I can't help but wonder about losing any fine-edged accuracy if you continue to swap barrels...threads wear down after awhile and one would have to always re-check headspace--of course--but how would barrel harmonics be affected over time with the barrel thread index shifting/rotating due to thread wear?
I swap barrels all the time and accuracy is not affected but you do want to lube the threads on the barrel. On any of my custom actions (Panda, Grizzley and Viper), the gunsmith never has to even see the action. They are all CNC milled and exactly alike. You can take a barrel off any Panda action and it will fit any other Panda with perfect head space. You just call the smith and tell him that you need a barrel to fit a Panda. Below a pict of my Panda with a barrel on. Notice the engraving on the barrel is where it should be though the smith didn't have the action when he chambered it. You just snug it up, no head space worries. Plus I have barrels in 4 different calibers for this action. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...from/panda.jpg

Big_Rob | 04-19-2008 11:41 AM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box The Weatherby isnt a slouch out of the box either. But the ammo for them is waaaaay too expensive. I met a guy once of a shorter stature that went full out African big game hunting with a .416 Weatherby mag, which if any of you dont know is quite a stout round with regards to recoil. He had old car door handles attached to the side of his rifle so his African guides could hold on to the sides of it when he pulled the trigger.

Maddie | 04-19-2008 02:50 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Rob (Post 1069043) The Weatherby isnt a slouch out of the box either. But the ammo for them is waaaaay too expensive. I met a guy once of a shorter stature that went full out African big game hunting with a .416 Weatherby mag, which if any of you dont know is quite a stout round with regards to recoil. He had old car door handles attached to the side of his rifle so his African guides could hold on to the sides of it when he pulled the trigger.
:haha: Don't tell my husband that story. He hates recoil! I'd come home and find car door handles on everything bigger than a .22! Lol! Like others, I thought "Savage" before I clicked on the thread. For the best combination of price and accuracy, you can't beat them. I've got a 110 in .308. It's a few pounds heavier than I'd like, but it's a good trade-off.

SilverCity | 04-19-2008 04:36 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 1069185) :haha: Don't tell my husband that story. He hates recoil! I'd come home and find car door handles on everything bigger than a .22! Lol! Like others, I thought "Savage" before I clicked on the thread. For the best combination of price and accuracy, you can't beat them. I've got a 110 in .308. It's a few pounds heavier than I'd like, but it's a good trade-off.
Is it a heavy barrel? A 26 inch target barrel makes for a rather heavy rifle. Perhaps have it trimmed down to a maximum length of 20-22 inches? I have considered doing this to one of mine. It would make the barrel more rigid (dampen vibration) and probably enhance accuracy a bit as well as lighten up the overall weight of the rifle. Most bench rest rifles wear a heavy, short barrel for this reason. Just a thought...

Maddie | 04-19-2008 05:59 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1069281) Is it a heavy barrel? A 26 inch target barrel makes for a rather heavy rifle. Perhaps have it trimmed down to a maximum length of 20-22 inches? I have considered doing this to one of mine. It would make the barrel more rigid (dampen vibration) and probably enhance accuracy a bit as well as lighten up the overall weight of the rifle. Most bench rest rifles wear a heavy, short barrel for this reason. Just a thought...
Thanks. That's not a bad idea. I'll have to think about it.

TomD | 04-19-2008 08:50 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box You would lose several hundred FPS by taking a 308 barrel down to 20".

SilverCity | 04-19-2008 09:18 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 1069566) You would lose several hundred FPS by taking a 308 barrel down to 20".
Several hundred? From Chuck Hawks: The 45th Edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook also has a table showing Center Fire Rifle Velocity Vs. Barrel Length. Their figures apply to barrels between 20 and 26 inches in length and agree with the Remington figures. The Lyman table shows the following approximate velocity changes: For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 1000-2000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 5 fps. For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 2001-2500 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 10 fps. For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 2501-3000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 20 fps. For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 3001-3500 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 30 fps. For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 3501-4000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 40 fps. Looks like chopping a 26" barrel to 20" would reduce .308 Winchester velocities down at most 120 fps...not several hundred. I will stick by my assertion that .308 barrels in 20"-22" are a good choice for someone who wants to lighten their rifle WITHOUT appreciably reducing performance out to 300-400 yards or so. Battle rifles such as the FAL (21"), HK G3 (17.7"), M1A (22") are all considered to be effective at ranges out to 600 yards.

Irons | 04-19-2008 10:44 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1069605) Several hundred? From Chuck Hawks: The 45th Edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook also has a table showing Center Fire Rifle Velocity Vs. Barrel Length. Their figures apply to barrels between 20 and 26 inches in length and agree with the Remington figures. The Lyman table shows the following approximate velocity changes: For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 1000-2000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 5 fps. For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 2001-2500 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 10 fps. For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 2501-3000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 20 fps. For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 3001-3500 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 30 fps. For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 3501-4000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 40 fps. Looks like chopping a 26" barrel to 20" would reduce .308 Winchester velocities down at most 120 fps...not several hundred. I will stick by my assertion that .308 barrels in 20"-22" are a good choice for someone who wants to lighten their rifle WITHOUT appreciably reducing performance out to 300-400 yards or so. Battle rifles such as the FAL (21"), HK G3 (17.7"), M1A (22") are all considered to be effective at ranges out to 600 yards.
I sent a very solid .308 Spanish Mauser off to Mag Na Port to cut the barral off at 16.5 inches and install a magnabrake.The goal was to build a high powered rifle that dident kick a small statured woman.It worked just fine. My summary is A .308 burns all necessery powder in 16 inches of barrel,sure you will get more velocity out of a longer barrel but how often do you plan on shooting into the next state? The woman I built the rifle for shot a mule deer at 380 yards and her first elk at 230 yards.She will keep that rifle for life she told me. Heck, I can't wait to build another one!:applause_

TomD | 04-20-2008 10:18 AM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1069605) Several hundred? From Chuck Hawks: The 45th Edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook also has a table showing Center Fire Rifle Velocity Vs. Barrel Length. Their figures apply to barrels between 20 and 26 inches in length and agree with the Remington figures. The Lyman table shows the following approximate velocity changes: For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 1000-2000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 5 fps. For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 2001-2500 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 10 fps. For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 2501-3000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 20 fps. For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 3001-3500 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 30 fps. For rifles with muzzle velocities in the 3501-4000 fps range, the change in velocity for each 1" change in barrel length is 40 fps. Looks like chopping a 26" barrel to 20" would reduce .308 Winchester velocities down at most 120 fps...not several hundred. I will stick by my assertion that .308 barrels in 20"-22" are a good choice for someone who wants to lighten their rifle WITHOUT appreciably reducing performance out to 300-400 yards or so. Battle rifles such as the FAL (21"), HK G3 (17.7"), M1A (22") are all considered to be effective at ranges out to 600 yards.
A quick google tour will find pages recommending various barrel lengths as ideal for tactical 308's. BTW, 120 fps is about right for loss from 26 to 20. I based my statement on a review of the Socom M1A. The reviewer seemed to think that the 16" barrel gave unacceptable velocity loss.

SilverCity | 04-20-2008 06:22 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box 1 Attachment(s) Yeah, a 16 inch barrel on a .308 is probably not optimum, however they are handy as all get out. My shorty is a Saiga 16 inch .308 loaded with Silver Bear 140 soft points, which I believe clocks about 2600 fps...fine for my use with irons as a perimeter rifle out to maybe 150 yards. Here is a picture (not mine) of one of my favorite "scout" type carbines...

Irons | 04-20-2008 10:10 PM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 1070059) A quick google tour will find pages recommending various barrel lengths as ideal for tactical 308's. BTW, 120 fps is about right for loss from 26 to 20. I based my statement on a review of the Socom M1A. The reviewer seemed to think that the 16" barrel gave unacceptable velocity loss.
I have read similar reports and nowadays I just take it with a grain.Ammo and bullets change over time getting ever better and flatter shooting if you want that. I've had a HK 91 for over 20 years now and its short and stubby, but its probably the last thing I want shooting at me from any distance.Even in the hands of a novice those guns will wreck a persons day.

tojaktoty | 04-21-2008 04:58 AM
Re: The most accurate rifle out of the box When you really want to reach out and touch someone, +1 mile - Xtreme 338 http://www.xtrememachining.biz/338tactical.html http://www.tactical-life.com/online/.../02/xtreme.jpg http://www.tactical-life.com/online/.../02/xtreme.jpg

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