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- - Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=399436)

Contento | 08-14-2009 11:28 PM
Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock I can let the cat out of the bag now that my order is processed. :bear_tongue: M855 is $425/1000 they also have M193 $350/1000 get it while it's hot or keep waiting for ammo prices to "drop".

I am me, I am free | 08-14-2009 11:53 PM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock That 62 grain penetrator aka M855 and SS109, the green tip stuff, is totally worthless as a manstopper.

MetalManiac | 08-15-2009 02:14 AM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock "Totally worthless as a man stopper." WTF??? Are you friggin' HIGH crackhead? Would you want to be hit with that shit? (I didn't think so. STFU.) :thumpdown http://www.accutronix.com/gallery/pi...head2jr6sd.jpg

I am me, I am free | 08-15-2009 10:33 AM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalManiac (Post 1869625) "Totally worthless as a man stopper." WTF??? Are you friggin' HIGH crackhead? Would you want to be hit with that shit? (I didn't think so. STFU.) :thumpdown
I am the crackhead? I need to STFU? Anyone who uses the green tip 5.56 ammo is without a clue. It won't take someone out of a fight, it will go clean through them without expanding. No expansion = no wound channel to speak of, as well as very little energy transfer. There's been lots of problems with the green tip ammo in the sandbox for this very reason. 3 shot bursts at close range (house clearing) are not taking out the enemy. Not only that, a crackhead is anyone who doesn't acknowledge the shortcomings of 'the retarded 5.56' and take positive measures to improve the terminal ballistics of this poodle-shooter/light varmint round by shooting 55 grain out of a 1x12 or slower twist barrel (to create an unstable bullet which tumbles on impact) or shooting the heavy stuff (69 gr. or heavier) in a 1x7 barrel. Unfortunately there is no 'universal sweet spot in the middle' with the 5.56, one needs to go to one extreme or the other and stick with it for the 5.56 to even begin to get the minimum performance to even began to approach being a 'barely there' manstopper. Wonderful paper puncher, extremely poor manstopper. You need to quit talking out your butt. lol

gangsta99 | 08-15-2009 10:42 AM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock About the green tip M855. I am me is 100% correct. I keep a few mags loaded with this stuff along with red tracers in them. Only thing I would ever use them for is if I am having to shoot at targets in body armor behind decent cover. Even then I probably wouldn't really need this ammo since a lot of 5.56 will do ok against body armor. Unless you get a headshot or hit the person through the spine or heart the wound channel is minimal.

Contento | 08-15-2009 12:09 PM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock Quote:
Originally Posted by I am me, I am free (Post 1869495) That 62 grain penetrator aka M855 and SS109, the green tip stuff, is totally worthless as a manstopper.
I'm sure the ten's of thousands of dead Iraqi's and Afghan's would disagree with you...but, yes there is a difference between M855 and M193. Both serve slightly different roles, and although not a true armor piercing round, the M855 will do a better job against armor if you happen to need that capability. I stock a majority of M193, but variety is the spice of life and I grab a box of green tip when I can. :ok:

I am me, I am free | 08-15-2009 12:35 PM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock Not familiar with the stuff made in UAE, however I would think the Prvi would be superior, and ammoman has Prvi 55 gr. for 389/1k delivered. Quote:
I'm sure the ten's of thousands of dead Iraqi's and Afghan's would disagree with you
Well, that certainly explains why troops in the sandbox are routinely going to the time, trouble, expense and effort of providing their own SEI (and other) M14s and M1As, some of them going to the trouble of installing those very expensive and damn heavy Sage and Troy stocks, as well as virtually all of the M14s in DOD inventory (the ones that BJ Clintoon didn't manage to destroy) having been sent to the sandbox. If the mouse caliber 'shits where it eats' M-16 is so wonderful then there wouldn't be such a huge demand for something that actually worked would there? lol

eat_beef | 08-15-2009 01:15 PM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock Quote:
Originally Posted by I am me, I am free (Post 1870035) Well, that certainly explains why troops in the sandbox are routinely going to the time, trouble, expense and effort of providing their own SEI (and other) M14s and M1As,
Dude, you're WAYY off base. There are NO troops providing their own M14s of any type in the sandbox. I am the biggest M14 fan anywhere, but the M14s in use, SEI or otherwise, are ALL USGI M14s, supplied through uncle sugar, and upgraded through the supply chain (with the exception of some accessories). They are also only being used in the very limited role of DMR or long range anti IED rifles. The guys packing them are also packing M4s in most cases, which they use unless the range/cover requires the big stick. Back to the original topic, M855 usually sheds it's jacket if it hits the target at sufficient velocity. It's like all 5.56, underpowered, but to say it's useless is quite silly. It's every bit as good as the 55 and 77gr fodder. BTW, M855 will cut straight through 1/2 inch mild steel. M80 will not.

I am me, I am free | 08-15-2009 01:24 PM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock Quote:
There are NO troops providing their own M14s of any type in the sandbox.
That's interesting because just recently a troop stationed at Ft. Hood indicated that to me that there were personally owned M1As in the sandbox, and he had just returned from a deployment. Also, Ron Smith implied it to me in a conversation a couple of months ago when he told me that he put his office phone on call forwarding so he wouldn't miss the calls from troops in the sandbox when they called after hours needing help with "their" rifles. If those were all DOD issued rifles, why would they be getting in touch with Ron Smith directly? Quote:
It's like all 5.56, underpowered, but to say it's useless is quite silly.
Well, a .22LR isn't totally useless for self-defense either, but it's still a very poor choice as a manstopper. The .223 is nothing but a heavy .22 on steroids - which is why the 6.5G and a piston conversion transforms the AR from a genuine POS into a reasonably nice rifle.

morganchaser | 08-15-2009 02:21 PM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock The reason to buy green tip is because it is not considered AP by law and therefore can be loaded in handgun rounds. Don't quote me on this or consider this legal advice, but AFAIK it's correct. 7.62x25 SLAP anyone?

Old Steel | 08-15-2009 04:29 PM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock You don't want to shoot to kill. "Shoot to wound, wait till their friends come to help, kill them too" From the movie "Shooter"

LukeNM | 08-15-2009 04:37 PM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock M193: Defined by: Mil-C-9963F 55 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity of 3,165 from a 20" barrel @ 78 feet from the muzzle. Accuracy: maximum of a two inch mean radius at 200 yards from ten 10 shot groups (~3 MOA). "Statistically average" M193 ranges from 1.2 to 1.6 inches mean radius, which is equivalent to 1.8 to 2.4 MOA. Velocity runs about 3,200 fps due to gas loss through the port. Accuracy is typically around 2 to 2+ MOA from an M16A1 rifle at ranges of 100 to 300 yards. M193 ammunition should have 1:12 twist or faster. M193 is barely stabilized with 1:14 at ambient temperatures and will not stabilize at all when the air temperature drops below freezing. M855: Defined in MIL-C-63989 NATO specifications for M855 Ball require a 61.7 grain with a hardened steel penetrator at a velocity of 3,000 fps from a 20" barrel @ 78 feet from the muzzle. Typical velocity 15 feet from the M16A2's muzzle is 3,100 fps. Accuracy: maximum of approximately four MOA over the 100 to 600 yard range. Typical accuracy of average lots in an M16A2 is about 2+ MOA. This round must also penetrate a nominal 10 gauge SAE 1010 or 1020 steel test plate at a range of at least 570 meters (623 yards). The M193 round will penetrate this same plate reliably at 400 yards and about half the time at 500 yards. The 5.56mm and 7.62mm NATO rounds will penetrate it reliably out to 700 yards or more. Because the steel penetrator increases the length and changes the weight distribution of the SS-109 bullet, it is suitable for use only in barrels with a twist of one turn in nine inches or faster. 1:10 twist will barely stabilize this round and not below zero degrees F.

eat_beef | 08-15-2009 05:16 PM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock Quote:
Originally Posted by I am me, I am free (Post 1870108) That's interesting because just recently a troop stationed at Ft. Hood indicated that to me that there were personally owned M1As in the sandbox, and he had just returned from a deployment. Also, Ron Smith implied it to me in a conversation a couple of months ago when he told me that he put his office phone on call forwarding so he wouldn't miss the calls from troops in the sandbox when they called after hours needing help with "their" rifles. If those were all DOD issued rifles, why would they be getting in touch with Ron Smith directly?
The first guy is like most GIs, full of poop. There are lots of personally owned weapons over there...in the hands of 'civilian contractors', not GIs. You are showing your ignorance by believing such rubbish. When you live and die by the rifle in your hands, it's 'your' rifle. The reason they are contacting Ron personally is because he built the rifles, and he is THE expert on the M14. BTW, do you own a Crazy Horse? I do. I'm currently not trying to buy something from him, but sell him a product improvement. Can you imagine the amount of time I've spent on the phone with him over the years? IOW, your dropping his name doesn't particularly scare me.:bear_rolleyes:

SilverCity | 08-17-2009 12:39 AM
Re: Classic Arms has M855 "penetrator" in stock Son-in-law survived Fallujah. Lost 37 marines in his unit. Did their M4s loaded w/855 work? He says they did the job. Did he and his fellow marines bitch about wanting something bigger? They did. When your ass is on the line for real, you always want more firepower. I have no problem loading 855 in my mags...

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