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- - home protection for a newbie (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=304360)

mnfarmer | 09-22-2008 05:18 PM
home protection for a newbie Okay, a few of you know that I don't like guns. That being said, we have decided that we need some! Our home/family needs to be protected WTSHTF. Hoping that you guys can give us some good advice on what would be good and where is the best place to buy. Hubby knows a little about guns, I know NOTHING except how to shoot a rifle at very close range. Now... stop laughing at me and help me please! Thanks guys!

Tn...Andy | 09-22-2008 05:37 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Mossberg 500 series shotguns in 12ga. for good all around home defense. Revolver, .357 cal or any of the Glocks automatics in caliber of your choice ( 9mm and above )....neither of these have a "safety" as such that much be released in a time of crisis. Then I would have at least one good rifle to help keep intruders at bay, distance being your friend. A bolt action 30.06, like a Remington 700, or a larger capacity rifle with a detachable magazine, such as an AK-47. You'll get many opinions on what, but the main thing is GET SOME, GET FAMILIAR WITH THEM, and PRACTICE. Then stack ammo wide and deep.

gpond | 09-22-2008 05:40 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1306768) Mossberg 500 series shotguns in 12ga. for good all around home defense. Revolver, .357 cal or any of the Glocks automatics in caliber of your choice ( 9mm and above )....neither of these have a "safety" as such that much be released in a time of crisis. Then I would have at least one good rifle to help keep intruders at bay, distance being your friend. A bolt action 30.06, like a Remington 700, or a larger capacity rifle with a detachable magazine, such as an AK-47. You'll get many opinions on what, but the main thing is GET SOME, GET FAMILIAR WITH THEM, and PRACTICE. Then stack ammo wide and deep.
mnfarmer, You will get a lot of advice on this thread, I think, but none will be much better than what Andy has just offered you. gpond :rose:

SilverCity | 09-22-2008 05:41 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer (Post 1306744) Okay, a few of you know that I don't like guns. That being said, we have decided that we need some! Our home/family needs to be protected WTSHTF. Hoping that you guys can give us some good advice on what would be good and where is the best place to buy. Hubby knows a little about guns, I know NOTHING except how to shoot a rifle at very close range. Now... stop laughing at me and help me please! Thanks guys!
A really open-ended question...you will get lots of opinions here. Exactly what type of scenario do you anticipate? How many people in your family--adults and children? Do you plan on arming each adult and older child with at least one firearm? How close are your nearest neighbors? How much money are you willing to spend? Are you really willing to kill to protect your family? What types of firearms do YOU THINK you need? These are some of the questions you might need to answer first...talk it over with your husband. A "canned" response might be: one rifle and one handgun for each responsible family member, and at least one shotgun per household.

gpond | 09-22-2008 05:41 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1306774) .357 is a hand full for a new shooter. I second the soft recoil 9mm Glock 19 and the 12 gauge Mossberg 500 Andy recommended.
.357s will also accept .38 for when the extra power is not required or desired. That is a good thing.

Juristic Person | 09-22-2008 05:44 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer (Post 1306744) Okay, a few of you know that I don't like guns. That being said, we have decided that we need some! Our home/family needs to be protected WTSHTF. Hoping that you guys can give us some good advice on what would be good and where is the best place to buy. Hubby knows a little about guns, I know NOTHING except how to shoot a rifle at very close range. Now... stop laughing at me and help me please! Thanks guys!
Take the hubby with you to a shooitng range. Most will allow you to try out an assortment of different guns. Get used to firing them and find one that you can handle well - and still serve the function that you will need it to do. Glad you to see you're coming around ... your transition to 'the dark side' has begun. :wink: .

The Argent Dragon | 09-22-2008 05:52 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Also, make sure you get a good SHOTGUN to keep on hand. :wink: And outside of handguns, I'd also consider a nice trusty Rifle whether it's a semi-auto AK-47 or a strong bolt-action rifle like a Mauser or M1 Garrand type. Lot's of choices, but narrow down your 'range' of defense. Handgun 7-25yds tops Rifle for medium ranges 25-100 yds (like the AK-47) Rifle for longer ranges 100-200+ yds (like the bolt action) Any farther, you'll need significant training. :wink:

JJ_ | 09-22-2008 05:55 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Answer only If you want- What changed your mind? +1 w/ Andy's advice- that's a good start and I bet you get boatloads more.

jsimmons | 09-22-2008 06:05 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie how do you feel about the morality of dispatching people who come for your preps? what if they are family?

jsimmons | 09-22-2008 06:10 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
They are tasty with ketchup. GTFO this thread with your bs if you don't have anything constructive to add.
chill out man just having some fun. :tongue_ma::tongue_ma::tongue_ma::tongue_ma:

SilverCity | 09-22-2008 06:14 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by jsimmons (Post 1306840) how do you feel about the morality of dispatching people who come for your preps? what if they are family?
A valid question that many people are afraid to ask themselves... And some people buy a firearm and ammo...and put it away in the closet without ever practicing with it. They just want to "feel safer" with one in the house. In a real emergency they wouldn't have much of a chance.

GreenSpirit | 09-22-2008 06:38 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1306851) They are tasty with ketchup. GTFO this thread with your bs if you don't have anything constructive to add.
Your family is "tasty with ketchup"? ok :confused_ma:

Agamemnon | 09-22-2008 06:40 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer (Post 1306744) Okay, a few of you know that I don't like guns. That being said, we have decided that we need some! Our home/family needs to be protected WTSHTF. Hoping that you guys can give us some good advice on what would be good and where is the best place to buy. Hubby knows a little about guns, I know NOTHING except how to shoot a rifle at very close range. Now... stop laughing at me and help me please! Thanks guys!
For a newbe on guns, I would stay away from semi-automatics. For a shotgun, try a 20 gage pump, it won't blow out your eardrums and kick the hell out of you, but it will do the job with 3 inch mag buckshot. BB shot is prettty nasty too, turkey load. Shreds the perp. For a handgun, stick with a revolver, double action, 38 cal is more than enough, try an old police service revolver, 4 inch barrel. .

SilverCity | 09-22-2008 06:45 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1306911) While I think the OP should definitely get training and try to gain the proper mindset, I don't think exploring the "morality" of an unlikely scenario on her first day of firearms interest is going to do any good.
I always ask a newbie (male or female) if they are willing to use deadly force to protect themselves or their loved ones. If they aren't, they will hesitate or fail to act in time to save their lives. FBI studies have shown that as many as 16% of LE fatalities were caused when agents were shot with their own weapon...in other words their weapon was wrestled away and used on them. If they weren't willing to kill, I would then recommend some other non-lethal form of self-defense. A local gunshop owner (woman) says often women will come in to buy a firearm and end up walking out with pepper spray or a stun-gun instead. When faced with the actual purchase of a lethal weapon, they sometimes change their mind and opt for a non-lethal device.

GreenSpirit | 09-22-2008 06:49 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1306934) You might be too if you get too close to my preps.
I'd recommend mustard if you plan to eat me.... and a REALLY long bun. :wink:

foolsgold | 09-22-2008 07:10 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1306768) Mossberg 500 series shotguns in 12ga. for good all around home defense. Revolver, .357 cal or any of the Glocks automatics in caliber of your choice ( 9mm and above )....neither of these have a "safety" as such that much be released in a time of crisis. Then I would have at least one good rifle to help keep intruders at bay, distance being your friend. A bolt action 30.06, like a Remington 700, or a larger capacity rifle with a detachable magazine, such as an AK-47. You'll get many opinions on what, but the main thing is GET SOME, GET FAMILIAR WITH THEM, and PRACTICE. Then stack ammo wide and deep.
What Andy said ...but the Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun is an alternative.

Walter Mitty | 09-22-2008 07:23 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 shotgun. Glock or Springfield XD 9mm. AR-15's (As good of ones as you can afford)w/Nato chambers and chrome lined chambers and bores. At least one rifle in .308 win (7.62 x 51) either a bolt action or Semi-Auto military style (FAL,M1A, etc) ( Can substitute AK-47's for AR-15's)

Abouthadit | 09-22-2008 07:39 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1306768) Mossberg 500 series shotguns in 12ga. for good all around home defense. Revolver, .357 cal or any of the Glocks automatics in caliber of your choice ( 9mm and above )....neither of these have a "safety" as such that much be released in a time of crisis. Then I would have at least one good rifle to help keep intruders at bay, distance being your friend. A bolt action 30.06, like a Remington 700, or a larger capacity rifle with a detachable magazine, such as an AK-47. You'll get many opinions on what, but the main thing is GET SOME, GET FAMILIAR WITH THEM, and PRACTICE. Then stack ammo wide and deep.
Yes, all four: shotgun, pistol, bolt and semi. wide and deep, wide and deep.

mnfarmer | 09-22-2008 07:39 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Wow... so much great advice already! I knew I came to the right place! I'll address a few of your questions below. Keep the great stuff coming guys! Thanks! A really open-ended question...you will get lots of opinions here. Exactly what type of scenario do you anticipate? I live on a farm... anything could happen. People may be looking for my animals, or my well, or fuel from the barrel, or any number of other things How many people in your family--adults and children? 2 adults/ almost 15 year old boy/ 11 year old girl Do you plan on arming each adult and older child with at least one firearm? Both adults for sure, maybe my son. How close are your nearest neighbors? close enough to see a couple of them How much money are you willing to spend? What it takes, but not too much... Are you really willing to kill to protect your family? If need be, I can & WILL do anything to protect my family What types of firearms do YOU THINK you need? If I knew that, I wouldn't be asking for advice These are some of the questions you might need to answer first...talk it over with your husband. A "canned" response might be: one rifle and one handgun for each responsible family member, and at least one shotgun per household. Answer only If you want- What changed your mind? I still don't really like guns, but my dear hubby and I have talked about SHTF a lot. I believe it is getting pretty close, and I kind of wish I would have given guns more thought before, so I would be better prepared. Like I said above, I will do anything to protect my family. Take the hubby with you to a shooitng range. Most will allow you to try out an assortment of different guns. Get used to firing them and find one that you can handle well - and still serve the function that you will need it to do. I like this idea... should have thought of it myself! Thanks! Glad you to see you're coming around ... your transition to 'the dark side' has begun. The dark side... I feel so evil! I sort of like it! While I think the OP should definitely get training and try to gain the proper mindset, I don't think exploring the "morality" of an unlikely scenario on her first day of firearms interest is going to do any good. Thanks for looking out for me Wildcard. It's okay though... it's already been thought of. I'll do what it takes!

reviver | 09-22-2008 07:45 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenSpirit (Post 1306947) I'd recommend mustard if you plan to eat me.... and a REALLY long bun. :wink:
:haha::haha::haha::haha: Great line, but the interaction fellows, is a bit puerile Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Mitty (Post 1307006) Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 shotgun. Glock or Springfield XD 9mm. AR-15's (As good of ones as you can afford)w/Nato chambers and chrome lined chambers and bores. At least one rifle in .308 win (7.62 x 51) either a bolt action or Semi-Auto military style (FAL,M1A, etc) ( Can substitute AK-47's for AR-15's)
Lots of good advice, But the answer to your quesion is dependent on numerous factors from the stature of the folks using the firearms, to the space in and around your house, land and terrain. A shotgun (or 2 or 3) is your all around best defensive gun for most situations. Then a rifle, caliber depending upon the terrain. Get it quick.

Bushpilot | 09-22-2008 07:53 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie MN Farmer I know for a fact you can get a pump shotgun at a pawn shop for less than $200 and a brand new marlin bolt action in 30-06 is just $249 on sale at Mills Fleet Farm. I just looked at the Marlin and its a good value for the money and according to a recent gun magazine quite accurate. Add a $100 scope and for $500 plus ammo you've got a pretty good start to your arsenal(sp). A good used Glock 17 in 9mm can be had a local pawn shop for $400 with night sights and 1 17 round magazine. I sent you a PM. BP

SilverCity | 09-22-2008 08:06 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie My personal choices (simplified): Handgun: Glock 9mm (or caliber of your choice) Shotgun: Remington 870 in 12 gauge Rifle: AR-15 in 5.56 Nato AK-47 or SKS in 7.62x39 Remington 700 in .308 w/3-9x scope EDIT: Forgot to add a good scoped .22 rifle Plenty of mags and ammunition for each...ACT SOON.

Highwayman | 09-22-2008 08:13 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon (Post 1306932) For a newbie on guns, I would stay away from semi-automatics.
I agree, even more so with the Glocks (flamesuit on) 1) .357 revolver (fool proof, no fuss, uncomplicated handgun for a newb) 2.) Mossberg pump shotgun (simple, affordable, reliable) 3.) AK-47 (I like AR's.. but the AK is much easier to maintain/cheaper/less fuss for a newb) 500 rounds minimum for the .357 1000 rounds minimum for the AK 500 shells minimum for the shotty Don't forget to get at the very least this much ammo, post SHTF, ammo will be impossible to find at that point, and it doesn't matter if you have an arsenal.. if you have no ammo you may as well have spent the money on baseball bats. Don't forget to "likely to break" spare parts for each weapon. Extra money to spend? Double the ammo. After that a scoped .22 for small game, and a scoped 30.06 for long distance varmits.. two and four legged.

Stand Watie | 09-22-2008 08:26 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwayman (Post 1307097) 1) .357 revolver (fool proof, no fuss, uncomplicated handgun for a newb)
Just make sure it's a 7-shooter (Smith & Wesson 619 or 620). And lots of speedloaders.

foolsgold | 09-22-2008 08:52 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer (Post 1306744) Okay, a few of you know that I don't like guns. That being said, we have decided that we need some! Our home/family needs to be protected WTSHTF. Hoping that you guys can give us some good advice on what would be good and where is the best place to buy. Hubby knows a little about guns, I know NOTHING except how to shoot a rifle at very close range. Now... stop laughing at me and help me please! Thanks guys!
Years ago I shot a M16 in the army, but hadn't held a gun in 30 years. I recognized the need to defend myself so I bought a 12 gauge shot gun for home defense. My approach was to get the shotgun and go to the range with "target rounds". I'm 6' tall and weigh 230lbs and shooting slugs made my shoulder black and blue. Don't let that comment deter you, I just recommend you start with target rounds. They will stop anybody within 25-30 feet too, so they are not a waste of money. Take a hunter's gun safety course. Go to a firing range if you don't have sufficient land to shoot the weapon and get damn used to it's operation. Gain intimate knowledge of the gun's workings. Be able to load and unload it in the dark, set the safety and take it off. People who are afraid of guns don't know how to operate them. If you ever need to use it all the training and preperation might save your life.

tanner12oz | 09-22-2008 09:05 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie if concealment isnt an issue then i'd go with a pump shotgun.....if your want something you can throw in a safe or a drawer then i would go with a 367 mag

elroy | 09-22-2008 09:56 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie If you don't already have one or more, get a dog or two. Probably the best would be two big killers for outside and maybe a little yapper inside. The two large dogs outdoors serve as an alarm to notify you and as a deterrent against unwelcome visitors. The little yapper indoors serves as an additional alarm in case somebody takes out your two big dogs outside.

GreenSpirit | 09-22-2008 10:00 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy (Post 1307286) If you don't already have one or more, get a dog or two. Probably the best would be two big killers for outside and maybe a little yapper inside. The two large dogs outdoors serve as an alarm to notify you and as a deterrent against unwelcome visitors. The little yapper indoors serves as an additional alarm in case somebody takes out your two big dogs outside.
And then a fourth dog you keep on a leash with you at all times... in case the first three dogs are compromised. :D

mtnman | 09-22-2008 10:16 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Originally Posted by jsimmons http://goldismoney.info/forums/image...s/viewpost.gif how do you feel about the morality of dispatching people who come for your preps? what if they are family? Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1306851) They are tasty with ketchup. GTFO this thread with your bs if you don't have anything constructive to add.
Hold on now, actually this is a very good point. Life is not TV, just pointing a firearm at someone does not guarantee that person will stop and run away. You can have an arsenal at your disposal but the most important question is "Can you kill another human". Some can and some can't. Some have and can't live with the fact others have and it doesn't bother them. You’ll not know what you are capable of until it happens. As for the tools required, TNAndy’s post hits the nail on the head, maybe add an AK to the list.

Irons | 09-22-2008 10:25 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 1307320) Originally Posted by jsimmons http://goldismoney.info/forums/image...s/viewpost.gif how do you feel about the morality of dispatching people who come for your preps? what if they are family? Hold on now, actually this is a very good point. Life is not TV, just pointing a firearm at someone does not guarantee that person will stop and run away. You can have an arsenal at your disposal but the most important question is "Can you kill another human". Some can and some can't. Some have and can't live with the fact others have and it doesn't bother them. You�ll not know what you are capable of until it happens. As for the tools required, TNAndy�s post hits the nail on the head, maybe add an AK to the list.
Spoken like a US Marine, god bless you.

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Irons | 09-22-2008 10:30 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer (Post 1306744) Okay, a few of you know that I don't like guns. That being said, we have decided that we need some! Our home/family needs to be protected WTSHTF. Hoping that you guys can give us some good advice on what would be good and where is the best place to buy. Hubby knows a little about guns, I know NOTHING except how to shoot a rifle at very close range. Now... stop laughing at me and help me please! Thanks guys!
then don't get any guns, you are more dangerous to yourself having something you are afraid of than something you are comfortable with.

graspAU | 09-22-2008 10:31 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Also think about watch duty. I'm probably going to end up at the parents house and they have 1 shotgun and a Glock 30. I will be bringing 3 AR's, a couple more 45 glocks, and another shotgun. If there are 3 of us and we need someone on lookout 24 hours per day, then that means 8 hours on watch, 8 hours down time, 8 hours of sleep per day. Each one of us will have an AR and a 45 pistol on or near ourselves at all times.

graspAU | 09-22-2008 10:33 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Irons (Post 1307345) then don't get any guns, you are more dangerous to yourself having something you are afraid of than something you are comfortable with.
Everybody had to start getting comfortable with them at some point. I applaud the recognition of the need to protect the family and the effort to procure and train so that one goes from being afraid to comfortable and competent.

Walter Mitty | 09-22-2008 10:46 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie AR-15 Pros: Lightweight Good sights Easy for women and children to shoot due to low recoil Accurate Good ergonomics Easier to attach scopes, lights etc. Used by Military, National Guard and Police. Ammo availability due to above. More of a riflemens rifle (in my opinion) * Cons: Weak extraction Stopping power of 5.56 round questionable.(Although hollow point or open tip designed bullets can increase stopping power) Bullet lacks ability to penetrate barriers (particularly at a distance) Bullet can deflect off branches etc. Needs to be kept clean and lubed properly.(or reliability questionable) Should keep spare parts on hand( bolt, extractor and spring and rubber tensioner, firing pin,firing pin retaining pin, ejector,gas rings for bolt,cam pin,gas key & screws(or whole carrier w/ gas key)* * AK-47 Pros: Extremely reliable in a well made model. Does not necessarily have to be kept clean or lubed properly. Stopping power of 7.62 x 39 round arguably better than than 5.56 round. Strong extraction due to the taper of the cartridge from the base to the shoulder of the round. Ammo still reasonably priced Better suited to full auto use as was the original intent with its design. (in my opinion) * Cons: Bad sights Poor ergonomics Heavier than AR-15 Poor butt stock design Heavy magazines Accuracy not as good as AR-15 but generally good enough in good models.

mnfarmer | 09-22-2008 10:47 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Irons (Post 1307345) then don't get any guns, you are more dangerous to yourself having something you are afraid of than something you are comfortable with.
I can respect what you are saying... BUT... I didn't say that I am afraid of guns, I said I do not like them. I am NOT afraid of them, and am looking to find one (or more) that I can be comfortable using. Quote:
Originally Posted by scottp999 (Post 1307348) Everybody had to start getting comfortable with them at some point. I applaud the recognition of the need to protect the family and the effort to procure and train so that one goes from being afraid to comfortable and competent.
Thank you... but again... I AM NOT AFRAID! Sorry... just had to get that off my chest.

morganchaser | 09-22-2008 10:58 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Optional: Big Dog. 1. Handgun. (CZ-52[kevlar, accurate, cheap], Makarov[concealment, capacity, cheap] Walther PPK[concealment], 1911, CZ-75 ect) Keep it clean and learn to use it. It doesn't do you any good if you can't get to it. Don't chamber a round till you're ready to use it. Better a .22 that you're wearing than a .45 you left at home. 2. Ak-47 or AR-15(reliability vs. accuracy vs. price) 3. Mossburg or Remington 12 Ga 4. Mosin-Nagant, K98, or M1903 Quote:
Originally Posted by Irons (Post 1307345) then don't get any guns, you are more dangerous to yourself having something you are afraid of than something you are comfortable with.
OT: :/ Most likely not talking about threadstarter but: I expect in the near future gun control supporters are going to start "seeing the light" and going out to buy a gun because "well this is different." I kinda resent people who have fought to supress a right for me, enjoying that right when it suddenly suits them. All the same, I guess it's a good oppurtunity to de-demonize firearms, even though I suspect that these are the exact types of people who will hesitate to pull the trigger/recklessly endanger others & themselves through incompetence and then be convinced they were right all along when their gun gets used against them/they negligently kill their spouse.

mnfarmer | 09-22-2008 11:04 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by morganchaser (Post 1307375) OT: :/ Most likely not talking about threadstarter but: I expect in the near future gun control supporters are going to start "seeing the light" and going out to buy a gun because "well this is different." I kinda resent people who have fought to supress a right for me, enjoying that right when it suddenly suits them. All the same, I guess it's a good oppurtunity to de-demonize firearms, even though I suspect that these are the exact types of people who will hesitate to pull the trigger/recklessly endanger others & themselves through incompetence and then be convinced they were right all along when their gun gets used against them/they negligently kill their spouse.
Just thought I'd let you all know that I have never been a gun control supporter. I have always respected the right for anyone to own a gun.

foolsgold | 09-22-2008 11:11 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer (Post 1307385) Just thought I'd let you all know that I have never been a gun control supporter. I have always respected the right for anyone to own a gun.
Guns are tools just like rakes are tools. A little more complicated than a rake, but a 12 y.o. can operate one.

Walter Mitty | 09-22-2008 11:13 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Sukhoi- made a modification of my post per your input.

graspAU | 09-22-2008 11:20 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 1307378) You failed to note that the AR is absolutely the most unreliable battlefield rifle ever produced when not "kept clean and lubed properly." In fact it is a very, very sad joke. In a SHTF sort of scenario, who's going to have time to 'clean and lube' an AR *properly* every day??? .
We are going to be running our rifles on the battle field each day to the point where they are going to need to be cleaned and lubed every day? Wow. SHTF must be worse than I imagined. I guess some people think gun fights, that they participate in, are going to be required with regular frequency? Every month there are many people running their AR carbines through classes at the pace of 1000-1500 rounds per day, with a very large majority having not a single manfunction. If I need to even have one day where I am shooting 1000 rounds at human beings, for defensive purposes, in the United States, in my neighborhood, I would probably rather be dead and will have not stockpiled any where near enough ammo to make it through a single month. Point taken on the cleaning and lubrication, but I think that one could use an AR for home and family protection/defense, quite effectively in a time of disorder. If I ever have a manlfunction at a critical time, I will think of you right before I get killed.

SilverCity | 09-22-2008 11:38 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by scottp999 (Post 1307408) We are going to be running our rifles on the battle field each day to the point where they are going to need to be cleaned and lubed every day? Wow. SHTF must be worse than I imagined. I guess some people think gun fights, that they participate in, are going to be required with regular frequency? Point taken on the cleaning and lubrication, but I think that one could use an AR for home and family protection/defense, quite effectively in a time of disorder.
Agreed. We don't live in Fallujah. ARs do have a place in one's battery...even if only for limited, task-specific operations, like covering my neighbors' a$$ when hungry SHTF looters show up...or hungry dog packs...or javelinas...or coyotes...or that errant mountain lion that showed up last summer. Our neighbors all around live on 1.5 to 2 acre lots in a semi-rural loop. For SHTF sniping in my neighborhood (a very likely scenario, IMO) a .22 LR is too weak, AK is too inaccurate for my purposes, and .308 overpenetrates. If I need to take a tight, minute-of-eyeball shot out to maybe 175 yards with maybe a quick follow-up shot or two.....an accurate, scoped AR is THE TICKET. Also a good weapon for women and children, as pointed out earlier... If I had to flee, the FAL or Saiga in .308 would be my main BUG OUT weapon, along with a Glock 17, a pump 12 gauge and .22 pistol for foraging...

morganchaser | 09-22-2008 11:53 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer (Post 1307385) Just thought I'd let you all know that I have never been a gun control supporter. I have always respected the right for anyone to own a gun.
Yeah, I figured with 100 posts and being this early in SHTF it probably didn't apply to you. I'm thinking more along the lines of some of my Obama supporting relatives. :/ Gonna be a year or so, but I'm sure they'll all "see the light" at some point. Congrats on deciding to get one. If your first gun is a fun one I think it'll warm you up to the idea of guns in general. (I'm partial to the CZ-52 and Saiga-12 as far as smile makers are concerned. Ruger 10/22 is a close third. Nice thing about 22lr is you can get one of those metal shooting gallery targets. Positive hits without the hasle of changing/taping targets. Large Caliber rifles take a bit longer to warm up to due to the recoil and cost of ammo.)

Highwayman | 09-23-2008 07:45 AM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 1307306) And whatever you do, DO NOT get an AR-15! ARs are for people who don't know any better - AR-15s (and all similar gas impingement type rifles) are GUARANTEED to let you down in a real storm.
There is so much nonsense here I don't know where to start. To say that the millions of citizens, militaries, national guards, security forces, and police forces worldwide who've utilized the M16/AR15 sucessfully over the past 30 years are ignorant dupes and "don't know any better" than Sukhoi is.. well.. just amazing. In addition to the United States (the country of origin), users of the M16 rifle and its variants have included and are: Afghanistan (as of December 2007) Argentina Bahamas Bangladesh Bahrain Barbados Belize Bolivia Brazil (M16A2, Brazilian Marine Corps) Botswana Bosnia and Herzegovina Brunei Cambodia Cameroon Canada (C7, C8) Chile Colombia Costa Rica Denmark (C7, C8) Dominican Republic Egypt Estonia[12] El Salvador Fiji France Georgia Ghana Greece Grenada Haiti Honduras Hungary Iceland (C7, C8) India (M16A2, special forces only) Indonesia Israel Italy (Special Forces) Japan Jordan Jamaica Kuwait Latvia Lebanon (M16A1 Army) Lesotho Liberia Liechtenstein Lithuania (M16A1) Maldives Malaysia Mexico Morocco Nepal New Zealand Norway (C7, C8) Laos Nigeria Netherlands (C7, C8) Oman Pakistan Panama Philippines Portugal Qatar Saudi Arabia Singapore (as the M16S1) South Korea Sri Lanka Republic of China Rhodesia Thailand Timor-Leste Tunisia Turkey (special forces, police) United Arab Emirates United Kingdom (M16, CAR-15, M16A2, C7, C8 - special forces only) Uruguay Vietnam Venezuela Yemen Zaire Every country on that list "doesn't know any better" I guess. I recommend using the post by Walter Mitty above to figure out the pros and cons of both the AR and the AK and figure out which one would be best for you. But to blankly state that the AR or the AK (either one) is "guaranteed to let you down" or only for "stupid people who don't know any better" is cluelessness and grand-standing on a level it's difficult for me to comprehend. Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Mitty (Post 1307363) AR-15 Pros: Lightweight Good sights Easy for women and children to shoot due to low recoil Accurate Good ergonomics Easier to attach scopes, lights etc. Used by Military, National Guard and Police. Ammo availability due to above. More of a riflemens rifle (in my opinion) * Cons: Weak extraction Stopping power of 5.56 round questionable.(Although hollow point or open tip designed bullets can increase stopping power) Bullet lacks ability to penetrate barriers (particularly at a distance) Bullet can deflect off branches etc. Needs to be kept clean and lubed properly.(or reliability questionable) Should keep spare parts on hand( bolt, extractor and spring and rubber tensioner, firing pin,firing pin retaining pin, ejector,gas rings for bolt,cam pin,gas key & screws(or whole carrier w/ gas key)* * AK-47 Pros: Extremely reliable in a well made model. Does not necessarily have to be kept clean or lubed properly. Stopping power of 7.62 x 39 round arguably better than than 5.56 round. Strong extraction due to the taper of the cartridge from the base to the shoulder of the round. Ammo still reasonably priced Better suited to full auto use as was the original intent with its design. (in my opinion) * Cons: Bad sights Poor ergonomics Heavier than AR-15 Poor butt stock design Heavy magazines Accuracy not as good as AR-15 but generally good enough in good models.

jrog100 | 09-23-2008 09:14 AM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer (Post 1306744) Okay, a few of you know that I don't like guns. That being said, we have decided that we need some! Our home/family needs to be protected WTSHTF. Hoping that you guys can give us some good advice on what would be good and where is the best place to buy. Hubby knows a little about guns, I know NOTHING except how to shoot a rifle at very close range. Now... stop laughing at me and help me please! Thanks guys!
Get a S&W X frame in 460.

The Argent Dragon | 09-23-2008 10:08 AM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon (Post 1306932) For a newbe on guns, I would stay away from semi-automatics.
This is totally FALSE ! My wife (who's small in stature) shoots both my GLOCK and AK semi-autos just fine with very little instruction. Both these guns are easy enough for a child to operate (not that you'd want to do that). :wink:

farscott | 09-23-2008 12:26 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie The hardware is only one part of the equation; the user's software is the MOST important part of the equation and the one most often neglected. I would take a class, something like Thunder Ranch or LFI, and then buy some hardware based on what I learned in class.

wallew | 09-23-2008 12:30 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie There are several places you can find good deals for firearms on the web. Tn Andy's advice is right on the money. Here's a page from J&G Sales website for S&W revolvers for sale. They run from around $300 to well over $1000. BUT, the model 28 for $279 is a reliable revovler that you can depend on for a long time. http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/smi...ath/16_211_431 Again from J&G Sales, only this time it's Mosin Nagant rifles that basically start around $70 and go up to $450 for a 'sniper' model with scope. The Russian 7.62x54R is a long distance shooting round with plenty of knock down power and the ammo IS fairly inexpensive for now. As Tn Andy said, 'lay in ammo wide and deep'. http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/rif.../cPath/209_261 To address the shotgun portion of this equation, again at J&G Sales (NO, I don't work for them, but I DID just get a sales flyer from them and they are currently selling lots of good weapons at really nice prices). Listed in this link where they list 'misc shotguns' (they also have more under specific manufacturers) that start with single shots for under $100 to pump and semi-auto shotguns that go as high $1000 (really nice Browning Auto). http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/sho.../cPath/302_345 J&G Sales also has a boatload of Mossbergs. http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/sho.../cPath/302_339 There are other places as well. www.classicarms.us comes to mind as a place that you can pick up both AK's and Mosin Nagants at a fair price and a few semi-auto's as well. Stock up on ammo. Set up a 'practice area' on your farm, assuming it's allowed and your neighbors aren't too stuck in their liberal ways. A few bales of hay as a backstop will work for shotguns, though pistol and rifles you will need a 'hard' backstop, generally a hill. My BIL just uses his front end loader, pushes up about a 12 ft tall pile of dirt and calls it a back stop. It works well. But he can only see one of his neighbors and not from his house, but on a spot on his property he can see them. Good luck, if you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask us. Or drop me an email, as I have numerous links I have not shared.

Juristic Person | 09-23-2008 02:52 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer (Post 1307023) I like this idea... should have thought of it myself! Thanks!
No problem. Hopefully you can find one nearby. They should have a good assortment (and advice) on handguns. Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer The dark side... I feel so evil! I sort of like it!
Haha - you devil! But seriously, Wildcard said it better. I was only joking about gun ownership being "the dark side". It really is "personal responsibility for the security of yourself and your family".

mnfarmer | 09-23-2008 04:31 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie A quick note for all of you who have given me so much information to wade through... :confused_ma: A local person from this board has sent me a PM with some useful info: I am going to be checking out a beginners class at a range. He also gave me a good place to check out some guns. He did offer to help out, but hubby thought of a friend of ours (who I never even thought about) who we are going to try to get to go with us. Thanks everyone for all of your input! Keep it coming! Oh... I did stock up today on some ammo for the one 22 that we currently do own. :D

mnfarmer | 09-23-2008 04:51 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Just spoke to the manager of the local gun range. Turns out I missed the first shots class (it was last Saturday). However, he was oh so helpful and offered to arrange a time for us to come out and meet with his wife and himself for a little help!

mnfarmer | 09-23-2008 05:05 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1308631) Nice! Watch out for toothpaste wielding saboteurs...
:rofl: :hahaha: :haha: Thanks for the chuckle, Wildcard!

Walter Mitty | 09-23-2008 05:13 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Lets not get into a big firestorm over this. A new person asked for info. If you have something relevant to say, say it in a respectful manner. * * Yes the AK will run under conditions that will lock up an AR-15. * If your only criteria is absolute 100% reliability in any and all conditions, go with the AK. * If there are other criteria you need to consider, and you are willing to learn about the AR-15 system, what it can and cannot do and what you have to do to maintain it, then that might be the way to go.

The Argent Dragon | 09-23-2008 05:40 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer (Post 1308570) Oh... I did stock up today on some ammo for the one 22 that we currently do own. :D
:applause_ good move ! :wink:

Juristic Person | 09-23-2008 06:07 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer (Post 1308612) Just spoke to the manager of the local gun range. Turns out I missed the first shots class (it was last Saturday). However, he was oh so helpful and offered to arrange a time for us to come out and meet with his wife and himself for a little help!
Glad I could help. You did the right thing. For an inexperienced noob, you've taken the first step in the right direction. :coolbeer:

Highwayman | 09-23-2008 06:18 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 1308627) Here's a challenge for ya - let's go to the range, you bring your poodle-shooter and a 'family size' tube of toothpaste, whatever brand you care to, and I'll bring a ChiCom AK and a tube of toothpaste, along with some wet sand. You get to empty your tube of toothpaste into my AK with the dust cover off (bolt carrier assy. still in place) and then you get to throw two handfuls of wet sand on top of the toothpaste. Then we'll cram the dust cover back on the mess. I get to open your AR, leaving the bolt carrier assy. in place and empty my tube of toothpaste into the fire control on your AR, along with two handfuls of wet sand tossed on top of the toothpaste as with the AK.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind in case I'm ever in a shootout in an exploding Colgate factory during a sandstorm.

wallew | 09-23-2008 08:08 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie OK, again with the AK/AR/M16 debate... HK has finally FIXED the reliability problems inherent in the AR design. I've posted this link before and will continue to do so. Having said ALL that, are HK 416 and HK 417 rifles in the US (or any other nations) military service in any numbers yet? Not to my knowledge. I try and keep up, but things do move at a quick pace, so I could have missed an announcement from HK. BUT, the old saw 'let me throw sand in your AR' argument is D E A D. Period, end of story. At least if you own the HK 416 or HK 417. Neither of which any one that I'm aware of owns yet. But the PROBLEM has been resolved. You Tube
You Tube
And most folks here know that I'm a huge fan of AK's. And Rem 700. And Winchester Model 12's. Revolvers over semi autos, but semi autos do have a place within your armory, if you feel they do.

Walter Mitty | 09-23-2008 10:34 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Sukhoi- Other criteria: lightweight- Better suited for women and children. better sights and ergonomics. ammo used by Military, National Guard and Police depts. Easier to mount optics and lights.

Agamemnon | 09-23-2008 11:12 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Why does most of the home protection gun threads turn into an AK add ... ? I need home protection so I'll get a big auto rifle and blast holes thru my kids bedroom walls or kill my neighbor's horse while taking out the bad guy ... Hint; "home protection" doesn't necessarily mean you're going into full metal jacket war against hoards of advancing enemy combatants ... .

jrog100 | 09-24-2008 09:19 AM
Re: home protection for a newbie Looks like there are a bunch of experts here that don't have a clue. Buy a Remington 870 express 20 gauge and you're done.

wallew | 09-24-2008 12:02 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon (Post 1309347) Why does most of the home protection gun threads turn into an AK add ... ? I need home protection so I'll get a big auto rifle and blast holes thru my kids bedroom walls or kill my neighbor's horse while taking out the bad guy ... Hint; "home protection" doesn't necessarily mean you're going into full metal jacket war against hoards of advancing enemy combatants ...
A, "HINT - NONE OF US KNOWS WHAT WILL BE NECESSARY TO KEEP US AND OURS SAFE." Not me. Not you. So, as with all MY preps, I prep for the worst and HOPE for the best. Why AK's? AFFORDABILITY is the main HONEST answer you will get. Plus they do the job. AND HAVE BEEN DOING THE JOB FOR MORE THAN 50 YEARS. The 7.62 (30 caliber) bullet fired by the AK is more than enough to cause even the stoutest attacker to give second thought on continuing the fight after being hit ONCE by this bullet. I'm NOT dissing the AR. I've owned several. But for the money involved (firearm itself, mags, ammo, etc) you WILL spend two to three times the amount of money for anything AR than you will for anything AK. Again, AFFORDABILITY.

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Highwayman | 09-24-2008 01:48 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1310346) A 20 gauge is not the end of home defense. Unless you're going to be invaded by a flock of geese.
Yeah, but what about a sandy toothpase invasion?

<SLV> | 09-24-2008 01:57 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Glock 19 is the most simple tool. Besides a slide release, all you have is a trigger. 9mm is strong enough to stop a bad guy, but light enough for quick follow up shots. Plus you can get 33rd magazines to stash throughout the house just in case. I still think a full-length 12 gauge is too long to maneuver efficiently in a house. Also, it lends itself to being yanked out of your hands when you round a corner. If you get a shotgun get the Mossberg Special Purpose w/18" barrel. However, you will only have 4+1 shots of magnum (3") loads. The Saiga 12 semiautomatic shotgun will get you 10 rounds + 1 in a removable stick magazine. However, it would be a bit more complex to operate and a bit more pricey. I'd say that an AK-47 is your best option by the back door. If you have a situation with 2 or 4 legged animals in your yard the AK-47 will give you 29 opportunities to miss without reloading. Don't bother with a long range .30 caliber rifle (.308 or .30-06). It is hard to justify shooting someone at 200 yards in "self defense". Me? I stick with 9mm and 7.62x39 (AK). Should be good enough for anything I might face. And, don't forget... PRACTICE... PRACTICE... PRACTICE!!! PS - Stash a lot of ammo.

SilverCity | 09-24-2008 02:33 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1310346) Worst advice so far. :thumpdown A 20 gauge is not the end of home defense. Unless you're going to be invaded by a flock of geese.
Small geese...

jrog100 | 09-24-2008 03:48 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1310346) Worst advice so far. :thumpdown A 20 gauge is not the end of home defense. Unless you're going to be invaded by a flock of geese.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about or any remote understanding of home defense.

Highwayman | 09-24-2008 04:27 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie One could make a very good argument that the best home defense weapon, if you could only have one, would be a shotgun. We "get" that. But why 20 gauge and not 12?

Agamemnon | 09-24-2008 07:22 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwayman (Post 1310708) One could make a very good argument that the best home defense weapon, if you could only have one, would be a shotgun. We "get" that. But why 20 gauge and not 12?
Much less recoil, can be a compact pump ... or, an autoloader if you want. 3" mag loads will rip the jacket and flesh off an intruder. Home defence is not 50 yard shots ... unless you live in an aircraft hanger ... .

mnfarmer | 09-25-2008 02:50 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Thought I would give all of you helpers a quick update. We are gun shopping on Monday evening, as far as I know. (That should thrill our daughter... it is her birthday... don't think she will think it is a good gift). The friend that I mentioned before is going with us. Wish us luck! Thank you all for your insight... you have been very helpful.

Bushpilot | 09-25-2008 03:28 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Good luck farmer.....Hopefully the info I pm'd you was helpfull! BP

jrog100 | 09-25-2008 03:46 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Agamemnon (Post 1311097) Much less recoil, can be a compact pump ... or, an autoloader if you want. 3" mag loads will rip the jacket and flesh off an intruder. Home defence is not 50 yard shots ... unless you live in an aircraft hanger ... .
Yep, that's right. Plus if it's for an entire family to use it's not painful to shoot and gets the job done nicely. A 12 gauge would be good for larger individuals.

beertoad | 09-25-2008 03:48 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie NEVER HAD A NEED, HOPE I NEVER WILL  There is no need to raise your voice to be heard loud and clear.  It is better to de-escalate most bad situations with the right reactions than it is to escalate those same situations with actions taken without regard for their consequences.  It is always best to avoid situations you can’t talk your way out of.  There is no shame in walking away at the appropriate time.  When you smell fear your most important weapon is being able to control your adrenaline.  Above all, no matter what happens…..DON’T FLINCH! That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. bt

jrog100 | 09-25-2008 03:50 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1310801) Why not a .410 with bird shot? Because it's not an effective stopper. It's got no range. It doesn't hold many shots (*that you have to manually work the action to reload in a stressful situation). Hmm, sounds perfect...in whatever fantasy land Josey Wales is living in.
You sound like an angry child who can't admit when he's wrong and gets angry when people question their logic (or lack of logic). Don't be angry. Just understand that you're wrong and move on. This post is about helping another GIMer figure out what she needs. And it ain't a freakin FN FAL!

Highwayman | 09-25-2008 04:16 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie I'd rather be shot with any round other than 00 Buckshot at close range.. that's gotta be the worst. I'm just sayin'...

Rogue Drone | 09-25-2008 05:57 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie This thread has gone Awry. Amateurs focus on hardware, pros focus on tactics (software). "Man is to sword as three is to one" - Samurai

Between The Wheels | 09-25-2008 06:06 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie an Always Sunny reference.....nice

Rogue Drone | 09-25-2008 06:33 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Mushasi don't stand out on his porch. He was in a spiderhole, you passed him and now he's at your six, on the ridgeline with the sun to his back. Yes, don't bring a knife to a gunfight, but my point is, and I know you agree, is that people get hung up on the latest greatest super duper hardware when mindset, tactics and skills are what really matters.

nub | 09-25-2008 06:55 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie I say get yourself a nice .22 rifle easy on you and your pocket book you'll like shooting it and you can move up from there.

mnfarmer | 09-25-2008 10:07 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushpilot (Post 1312837) Good luck farmer.....Hopefully the info I pm'd you was helpfull! BP
Very helpful Bushpilot. I now know where to go! I will be thinking of you while I am there.

Highwayman | 09-26-2008 03:14 AM
Re: home protection for a newbie mnfarmer is like.. "Damn this thread's gone to hell." HaHa.

mnfarmer | 09-26-2008 08:32 AM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwayman (Post 1314245) mnfarmer is like.. "Damn this thread's gone to hell." HaHa.
You nailed it, Highwayman. I was just telling hubby when he asked if there was any new info, that it turned into a bunch of bickering. I really do thank you all for the input that you gave me... now grow up boys, or I will lock this thread! :rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::r ant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::ran t::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant: :rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::r ant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::ran t::rant::rant:

Wingmaster05 | 09-26-2008 10:31 AM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by farscott (Post 1308096) The hardware is only one part of the equation; the user's software is the MOST important part of the equation and the one most often neglected. I would take a class, something like Thunder Ranch or LFI, and then buy some hardware based on what I learned in class.
outstanding advice. I foresee thousands of people, such as the OP and my family included, purchasing firepower of which we hardly know how to operate. Definitely going to be some accidents post-fallout.

mnfarmer | 10-05-2008 06:32 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Thought I'd let you all know that the first firearm has finally been purchased... now to go out and shoot it... not today... it is raining. Thank you all again for all of your advice. It was much appreciated and very helpful.

Maddie | 10-05-2008 07:24 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Nooo! Don't leave us hanging! We're dying to know what you got. (Although, under the circumstances, I can understand any reluctance to discuss it here.) Have fun shooting! You may find that you really do like guns after all. :smile:

Martian_Time_slip | 10-05-2008 07:24 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie What did you get?

Paradox | 10-05-2008 10:46 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie I suggest 10/22's for the kids. Its a good learner gun and always useful for hunting small game if needed. The ammo is cheap and easy to store. Parents if you suddenly need a gun at night while in bed I would prefer a 357 revolver loaded with .38 ammo and a small flashlight ( Keep your darkvision do not use the flashlight unless needed). Please please please make sure its not little johnny coming home drunk before you pull the trigger... Almost every other situation I would prefer a quality semi auto pistol. They are still simple to operate and they hold more ammo. With a little training they are easier to shoot and handle and faster to reload. 2 shotguns with various types of ammo. 1 bolt gun hunting rifle. 1 battle style rifle and hope its never used for anything but shooting holes in paper. Buy this last plenty of ammo for all of them. At least one red rider BB gun :smile:

mnfarmer | 10-06-2008 07:45 AM
Re: home protection for a newbie Sorry to have kept you waiting... I guess I am not going to go into too much detail, but I got a pump action shot gun with a 20" barrel. I would love to tell you more, but I'm being told not to. I know you understand. Thank you all again for your insight and advice. I'll let you know sometime how I am getting along with it. :beer:

Paradox | 10-06-2008 11:33 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie good choice. Now shoot it till you know what to expect and are comfortable with it.

skilsaw | 10-09-2008 04:25 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 1306941) A local gunshop owner (woman) says often women will come in to buy a firearm and end up walking out with pepper spray or a stun-gun instead. When faced with the actual purchase of a lethal weapon, they sometimes change their mind and opt for a non-lethal device.
Yea, what are some good suggestions for those of us not mentally ready to use a firearm yet? Or want something more easily portable? Pepper spray? Tactical combat knife? Any good suggestions for types or models here? Aluminum baseball bat?

Tragedy Trousers | 10-09-2008 06:25 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie I think you are all going in the wrong direction on firearms for home defense. Im all set with my Home Defense. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

Maddie | 10-09-2008 06:54 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by skilsaw (Post 1346145) Yea, what are some good suggestions for those of us not mentally ready to use a firearm yet? Or want something more easily portable? Pepper spray? Tactical combat knife? Any good suggestions for types or models here? Aluminum baseball bat?
If you're not mentally ready to use a firearm, you're sure as heck not mentally ready to stab someone with a knife or bludgeon them with a baseball bat! Stabbing and bludgeoning are usually a lot more hands-on, brutal, and messy than shooting someone. Though it's been said ad nauseum, you also have to consider that if you're a woman, there's a good chance your weapon could taken from you by a determined or enraged assailant. Like it or not, the average man is stronger than the average woman. A weapon that can be used from a distance is a very good thing! For those not mentally ready to use a firearm, I'd suggest closely examining why you're not comfortable with a firearm. In my experience it seems that most people who are uncomfortable with firearms are people who are not familiar with firearms and are intimidated with them because of their unfamiliarity. Go sign up for a class that teaches you how to handle and use a gun safely. When you become comfortable with guns, then you can decide if you're ready to use one to defend yourself and loved ones or not. If you're not, then stick with pepper spray, get an alarm system, make your bedroom a "safe room," and exercise situational awareness and common sense when you're out and about.

wallew | 10-09-2008 07:40 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by skilsaw (Post 1346145) Yea, what are some good suggestions for those of us not mentally ready to use a firearm yet? Or want something more easily portable? Pepper spray? Tactical combat knife? Any good suggestions for types or models here? Aluminum baseball bat?
WOW! A question I can answer! KEWL!! If you are NOT a firearms person, consider the lowly fire extinguisher. If you buy a medium one (ABC) that's made of metal, consider this. You can spray it into an oncoming attackers face, temporarily blinding and temporarily smothering him. Making it difficult for him to see or breath. And you can DEFINITELY do this from at LEAST fifteen feet or further. Buy a couple extra ones and PRACTICE this type of 'putting the fire out'. Now at this point, you have a couple of options. 1)RUN LIKE HELL. 2)Take that metal cannister in your hand and beat the bejesus out of him. THEN RUN LIKE HELL. And a fire extinguisher is NOT illegal. At least not yet anyway. If you brought a fire extinguisher to a GUN FIGHT, you're pretty much hosed. Even WITH the surprise factor on your side. But if it's just some whacko, you might actually have a chance.

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Gold & Silver Forum - home protection for a newbie

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- - home protection for a newbie (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=304360)

SilverCity | 10-09-2008 07:42 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 1346576) If you're not mentally ready to use a firearm, you're sure as heck not mentally ready to stab someone with a knife or bludgeon them with a baseball bat! Stabbing and bludgeoning are usually a lot more hands-on, brutal, and messy than shooting someone. Though it's been said ad nauseum, you also have to consider that if you're a woman, there's a good chance your weapon could taken from you by a determined or enraged assailant. Like it or not, the average man is stronger than the average woman. A weapon that can be used from a distance is a very good thing! For those not mentally ready to use a firearm, I'd suggest closely examining why you're not comfortable with a firearm. In my experience it seems that most people who are uncomfortable with firearms are people who are not familiar with firearms and are intimidated with them because of their unfamiliarity. Go sign up for a class that teaches you how to handle and use a gun safely. When you become comfortable with guns, then you can decide if you're ready to use one to defend yourself and loved ones or not. If you're not, then stick with pepper spray, get an alarm system, make your bedroom a "safe room," and exercise situational awareness and common sense when you're out and about.
Good advice on the firearm classes Maddie. Will build confidence and increase willingness to use one when necessary to save loved ones lives. Reminds me of a retired sheriff trying to teach a little old woman how to shoot her pistol. It seems she had trouble hitting the target. He then told her to imagine someone trying to harm her baby granddaughter...She began NAILING the bullseye one shot after another. All she needed was MOTIVATION...by accessing some inner OUTRAGE..:wink: I might also suggest keeping a few a$$-chewers inside the house...like this one:

reviver | 10-09-2008 08:21 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1346702) pretty much hosed. Even WITH the surprise factor on your side. But if it's just some whacko, you might actually have a chance.
Excellent advice...and funny. Thank you. Firearms are tools. Dangerous tools. As with any 'dangerous' tool, education, and determination to protect you and yours are paramount.

foolsgold | 10-09-2008 08:37 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by mnfarmer (Post 1336224) Sorry to have kept you waiting... I guess I am not going to go into too much detail, but I got a pump action shot gun with a 20" barrel. I would love to tell you more, but I'm being told not to. I know you understand. Thank you all again for your insight and advice. I'll let you know sometime how I am getting along with it. :beer:
Good for you. Now get some target rounds and let her rip. Your fear will diminish. It just another tool to be handled with respect. Firearms class in 10 seconds...ALWAYS keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. ALWAYS handle the gun as if it is loaded. NEVER put your finger on the trigger unless you are gonna pull it. KNOW your target and what is beyond it. I'm sure you will be a safe responsible gun owner.

morganchaser | 10-09-2008 09:08 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Knife is the LAST weapon for self defense for a non-trained knife fighter. If you CAN carry a gun, the Eskrima/kali(or whatever) seems like more of a backup to a gun than a plan A, but the person with training is in the best position to make that decision. For the knife-fu challenged: Bright ass Flashlight is popular. Pepper spray flashlight would be my first line of defense and ASP them if that fails. (For home defense a scary looking dog that's trained not to take food from strangers goes a long way.) Below are my original musings but above is my final opinion. (Spray them with pepper spray, stun them with a stun gun, and then hit them in the collar bones with an ASP. (Never use an ASP unless you have legal cause to use a gun.) It's easier to use a stun gun on a blind target, and a stunned target can't defend against the ASP. A target with no use of their arms is no longer a threat. May be best to skip the stun gun for legal reasons as most juries would consider a stunned target adequately neutralized. An ASP is preferable to a stun gun to me since you don't have to close the distance as much. Besides: if they're stunned, you most likely should be able to retreat on the street. Save the stun gunned broken collar bones for homes in state's with a castle doctrine. Stun guns seem best suited for abductions IMHO, TAZER's are good alternatives to pepper spray but both have their advantages.) Didn't I mention knives are bad? Juries hate them and it's a messy way to defend yourself. Emotionally tramatic even. ^All of the above is second hand info. I've never used any of these weapons on a person and have recieved no training in any of them.

electric-amish | 10-09-2008 09:56 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie This is a graet thread. I'm loveing the Fire extinguisher idea. Have some fun shooooot it. Home Defense on a Farm has been the shot guns job for 100yrs. Good Choice. E-A cs

mnfarmer | 10-14-2008 11:59 AM
Re: home protection for a newbie :shine: Well, I finally shot it! I think that it is safe to say that I need to work on my aim... but it IS a shotgun. We each shot 5 rounds and had to stop... the cattle started to get spooked. Guess we'll move a little farther out next time. Anyway, thought I'd better update you all, as you have all been so helpful to me in this whole process. In fact, I was so eager to update you, that I came in the house, put it away, and sat down on the computer! Thanks again all of you! :banana:

foolsgold | 10-14-2008 12:18 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Did you use target loads with small brass? There's a major difference between those and the high brass shells. congratulations.:553:

mnfarmer | 10-14-2008 12:23 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Quote:
Originally Posted by foolsgold (Post 1357180) Did you use target loads with small brass? There's a major difference between those and the high brass shells. congratulations.:553:
I did use target loads... wimpiest ones I could get my hands on. I do have a bad shoulder, and don't really want to blow it out on practice while I am just learning. Once I am a little more comfortable with it, I will try out some bigger ammo, so that I will know what I am in for if I really need it. I think I forgot to report something before... IT WAS KIND OF FUN!!! :565:

blueice | 11-08-2008 12:28 PM
Re: home protection for a newbie Excellent thread, MinnFarmer..Splendid advice from many parties, such Wallew, Highwayman, SLV and Master Andy... My Current Wish List Glock 19 HK 416 if peasants are allowed to own or can afford it Mossberg 18" barrel The first order of business, is preparing for any disruption of civilities, is self-defense.. Thank you one and all......:36_1_32v:

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