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silverJeep | 01-13-2010 12:46 PM
.223 Reloading Help Just bought an AR, would like to start reloading. My Dad reloaded big game cartridges (.378 WM) back in the 80's. He's now passed away. I hear it's a lot cheaper and easier now. Any advice (and costs) of a set up just to reload 223? Anything you know of to STAY AWAY FROM? What am i looking at getting into ($$$)? Any regrets? My Dad used a chronograph to measure velocity on his reloads. Is that not the practice these days? I know a couple dumbs**ts that don't and I wouldn't want ANY instruction from them. Thanks, SilverJeep

Walter Mitty | 01-13-2010 12:49 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Do you have any of your Dads' reloading equipment?

SilverCity | 01-13-2010 01:03 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Never used a chrono in 30 years of reloading...just worked up accurate loads from reloading manuals following the basics, and watching for signs of pressure. Chronos only tell me one thing. You won't achieve velocities of mil spec M193, so I would focus on accuracy of terminally-effective bullets. Many good manuals out there, Metallic Cartridge Reloading by McPherson is an excellent beginner's manual and a compilation of manufacturers load data. I use RCBS presses and dies. Go to gun shows and look for used ones for better prices... If reloading for an AR, avoid military brass or if you do use it, invest in a primer-pocket de-crimping tool. Military brass is thicker so, reduce loads by 10% and work up to maximum. Also, pick up a factory crimp die (Lee). Generally, extruded powders burn hotter and cleaner (better for direct impingement ARs, IMO), ball powder burns cooler, but dirtier. Many powders work well for the 223. I use Accurate Arms 2015 (short-stick extruded), 2460 (ball), or 2230 (ball). Other good ones: BLC2 (ball), Win 748 (ball), H335 (ball), IMR4895 (extruded), Varget (extruded) for heavy bullets. Sorry, I can't give you a start-up cost. Good luck. SC

mayhem | 01-13-2010 01:09 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Reloading for me is all mental. Read the manuals twice maybe three times. You can not be careless, ever. It's a Zen thing for me, and I really enjoy it as it takes my full attention to do it properly. Remember you will be behind the thing when it goes off. Check, and then check again. If interrupted check again. Otherwise it isn't hard. No need to crono if you are reloading for target practice, just use a lighter load than specified. If you are pushing the limits, then using a chronograph is recommended. All my hot loads are done with NEW cases, not once fired. Otherwise enjoy it, I do it's relaxing for me.

silverJeep | 01-13-2010 01:47 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Mitty (Post 2124172) Do you have any of your Dads' reloading equipment?
No, my Dad's wife gave it all away after he died. Salvation Army or something along that line. That's a discussion for another thread.

hypervel | 01-13-2010 01:49 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help I second SC above, but I use a chrony....even for the air rifles. Helps me get all picky about exterior ballistics. That said....maybe cool your jets for a bit on the reloading and put some coin into a .22 conversion. I have a Ceiner-looks same-same as CMMG. Works fine and gets you cheap trigger time. The RL stuff can come along a bit later. Given that I have a conversion, I go buy some m193 from time to time for stash. I have scads of RL stuff, but my time is worth buying off the shelf now that I've had .22 use capability. Once in a while I'll burn some .223 in a fit of "realism". Also, consider some care consideration for your AR. Extra parts might be more worthwhile -up front- than 8lb of powder or a bunch of pills. I'm thinking springs, springs, springs and some gas rings. Extractor. Broken case remover. When you consider the enterprise of AR ownership as a system, the gun comes first. So, I suppose my OT point of view is to shoot .22 if you can. THEN pick up your RL capabilities in bits and pieces. Try a want ad tied to a $20 phone paid with caaaaash. I think you might be pleased with the response you get. Then chuck the phone.

Dave Thomas | 01-13-2010 02:09 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help I've heard you need to use Military primers for semi autos since you can run the risk of slam fires with heavy bolts like AKs, don't know about the AR though. I'm sure someone here has used regular primers in semi auto military guns. How much of this is hooey and reality? Anyone know?

SilverCity | 01-13-2010 02:22 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help I have used the relatively soft Federal standard small rifle primers exclusively for years. Never any problems in the ARs. Might be, if reloading for an SKS...

AZLiberty | 01-13-2010 03:22 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Thomas (Post 2124303) How much of this is hooey and reality? Anyone know?
Mostly, but not all, hooey. Usually when you get a slam fire in a military rifle it is a result of single loading the rifle during a rifle match. For some stages of the match (slow fire), you load one round at a time. When you do this, and let go of the bolt, it has a lot more momentum than if a magazine is in place (or en-block clip for an M1). There is a device called a SLED that one should use when single loading. It is designed to make single loading easier, but it also slows down the bolt the same way the magazine or clip would. Some rifles, like the SKS, can have a slam fire if the firing pin channel gets too dirty, because the firing pin gets stuck in the out position. Usually this is a result of the buyer not cleaning all the cosmoline out after purchase. I have used Winchester primers for years and never had a single slam fire. I know lots of competitors who use Remington primers (softer than Win) without problems. For the OP, I would recommend the Lee Classic Cast Turret press kit to get started.

CyberGold | 01-13-2010 03:34 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help I personally have never had a slam fire using a wide variety of primers, even federal or Remington Std. however I was at the range one day and some guy was getting regular doubles and maybe even a triple. I thought he had a select fire auto. Turns out because of the primer shortage, he had used Wolf standard small rifle primers (the copper colored ones) which I have since read somewhere are not recommended for use in an AR. :36_1_30:

Walter Mitty | 01-13-2010 04:11 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Well here is what you are going to need. Reloading press- I advise a Lyman single stage press to begin with (with the priming system) (because I do not like the new RCBS priming system, and I like to prime cases using the press.) Shell guide- Snaps into press ram. The case head slides into it. Powder Scale to weigh charges- Mechanical scales do not use batteries. digital scales need batteries or a 120V electrical source. Powder Measure- once set up it allows you to charge cases faster. Reloading Dies- There is some controversy as to whether you need to use a small base resizing die if the rounds are going to be fired in a semi auto rifle(like an AR-15) Vernier calipers- To measure case lengths and overall cartridge lengths. Wilson (or other) Case Gauge- Critical if cartridge is to be used in a semi auto rifle. While the overall "case" length may be correct on a resized case, the shoulder could be "set back" thereby increasing headspace or worse "blown forward" (for lack of a better term)causing the bolt to not lock up properly or extraction problems all of which cause safety issues. The case gauge will tell you whether the case is sized correctly I.E. to SAMMI specs (it will help you set your sizing die) Case Lube- To lube the cases before sizing them. Something to clean the primer pockets out Something to chamfer the insides of the case mouth. Something to clean the cases- Tumbler or vibrator polisher with medium. (I have read Lemin Shine mixed with water will clean them up if you do not want a nice polish you can forgo the Tumbler/Vibrator polisher) Primers Bullets Powder A good Reloading Manual. A stout bench Eventually a cartridge case trim tool ( cases fired multiple times stretch at the neck and need to be trimmed back to proper overall length) I do not think I have forgotten anything.

SWRichmond | 01-13-2010 04:32 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help I've been reloading for 40+ years. Form good habits. Take your time. Think about everything you do. If you don't understand anything you're doing, or why you're doing it, stop and come to understand it before you proceed. No smoking, no drinking, no interruptions. Only have one powder on the bench at a time. Zero the scale every time you start a new loading session. Inspect everything: Overall length of sized cases Primer seating depth Visually inspect cases loaded with powder (flashlight) Bullet seating Select components from a quality reloading manual, and stick with the recommended loads. Work up slowly to max listed loads; don't overload. Load a few rounds and try them, don't load a whole crapload of them and find out something is wrong. Recognize there's a learning curve, and you're on the really steep part of it.

silverJeep | 01-13-2010 05:36 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Thanks to all! Can anyone give a ballpark as to what this will cost to get into? Is this $100 to get started or $800? I'm it's just like anything else, you can go cheap crap, or over the top expensive. But, there has to be a sensible beginning.

SilverCity | 01-13-2010 06:03 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Quote:
Originally Posted by silverJeep (Post 2124682) Thanks to all! Can anyone give a ballpark as to what this will cost to get into? Is this $100 to get started or $800? I'm it's just like anything else, you can go cheap crap, or over the top expensive. But, there has to be a sensible beginning.
You won't get too much for $100. Make a list. Start checking gun shows, want ads, garage sales, estate sales for someone getting out of reloading, look for online sales (Midway), etc. Or just buy new. The more calibers you add, the more $$$ you will have invested. Start as simple and basic as possible. https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/Mai...eId=webconnect

electric-amish | 01-13-2010 07:00 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help I would estimate $500 get you up and running without hitting the most expensive stuff or scrapeing the bottom to hard. My first go to purchase would be a Lee Reloading Handbook. Its the easiest to read for the novice. Look into RCBS equip--stay away from the cheapest stuff go for robust quality. Have some fun. Maybe start out with a Single Stage press then on to a Progressive Press. Learning on Single Stage is helpful IMHO---I still use it exclusevily(sp) E-A

CyberGold | 01-13-2010 09:24 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Stay away from equip that uses proprietary components or oddball die thread sizes. The major players use the same 7/8"x14 dies so you can pick up deals as you find them no matter the brand. Sometimes you won't be able to avoid picking a brand such as cse trimmers, then you will be married to the accessories from that manuf. By that time you will probably have 2 or 3 trimmers of different OEM so it won't matter as much.

<SLV> | 01-13-2010 10:17 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Get a Lee Classic Cast single stage press. Get Lee dies with the "Factory Crimp Die." Everyone should learn on a single stage press -- it is good to focus on one thing at a time to begin with. Also, the single stage press will help you develop the most accurate load. I like LEE. Maybe not the highest quality, but definitely the best value (combination of quality and price).

<SLV> | 01-13-2010 10:18 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 2124846) My first go to purchase would be a Lee Reloading Handbook. Its the easiest to read for the novice.
I'll second this. It is the best introduction to reloading.

mayhem | 01-13-2010 11:13 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2125217) Get a Lee Classic Cast single stage press. Get Lee dies with the "Factory Crimp Die." Everyone should learn on a single stage press -- it is good to focus on one thing at a time to begin with. Also, the single stage press will help you develop the most accurate load. I like LEE. Maybe not the highest quality, but definitely the best value (combination of quality and price).
I have a Lee Classic and am very happy with it. I only reload for my self so I don't need a progressive machine. Like I said earlier I enjoy taking the time to make nice loads. I use their (Lee) carbide dies for my pistol cases. Factory crimp for the rifle cases.

Floyd | 01-13-2010 11:28 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Lee makes good stuff at a reasonable price. I second the single stage press for getting started. Been rolling my own for about 10 years. I started with the Lee annivesry kit came with many of your basic required tools.

<SLV> | 01-13-2010 11:41 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2125217) Get a Lee Classic Cast single stage press. Get Lee dies with the "Factory Crimp Die." Everyone should learn on a single stage press -- it is good to focus on one thing at a time to begin with. Also, the single stage press will help you develop the most accurate load. I like LEE. Maybe not the highest quality, but definitely the best value (combination of quality and price).
Not shown in the picture below is a convenient plastic tube that attaches to the bottom of the ram to direct spent primers into a trash can. Very convenient. This press is also big enough to do .50 BMG. I highly recommend using it with the Hornady Lock-n-load die holders. Makes switching dies a snap. http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics...rt/CLASSIC.jpg

tulsamal | 01-14-2010 01:06 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Quote:
Get a Lee Classic Cast single stage press. Get Lee dies with the "Factory Crimp Die."
I think I'm about +4 or +5 on this one. I have three Lee presses and two Dillons. I use the Classic Cast the most. My old Lee Turret Pree is second, I use it for most of the rifle calibers. The LCC is well built and will give you a lifetime of use. Easy and cheap to get parts if you manage to actually need them. And you can use it like a single stage press if you remove the little rotating bar in the center. Then it is a single stage press with a turret on top. Buy a turret for each caliber you reload. Makes it much easier to have your dies all adjusted and ready to go. Then if you feel the need for faster production of handgun cartridges at some point in the future, you can upgrade everything and make it more like a progressive press. I can turn out a lot of 9mm or .44 Special in a hurry with mine. If you buy from Graf's, you can save a lot of money over buying locally. They usually have lower prices on this stuff than Midway. The whole press is less than a hundred bucks. Then you need various other things like dies, a scale, maybe a hand priming tool, etc. You could have everything you really need (except components) for somewhere between $200 and $300. Gregg

CyberGold | 01-14-2010 04:32 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help About the only thing I have against Lee dies (not their factory crimp die which works well) is their one piece decapping pin. Especially when reloading 5.56 or 7.62x51 military brass, a berdan style case occasionally finds its way into the batch somehow and when the decapping pin breaks off you can't replace it - you have to send it back to Lee and wait for a replacement (which is why I keep a couple extra decappers on hand). The other problem with them is the slip fit adjustment of the decapper - it either required really tightening it down or it slips and has to be re-adjusted. I much prefer the screw adjustment and easily replaceable pin found on RCBS dies.

tulsamal | 01-14-2010 06:50 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help I've been using a Lee Turret press with Lee dies since 1986. I've _never_ broken a decapping pin. I've had it hit the bottom of a Berdan case and then slide upward but not break. I usually curse then because I have to get out two different sizes of open end wrench to reset and tighten the pin but it's a lot better than it breaking! Gregg

<SLV> | 01-14-2010 08:46 PM
Re: .223 Reloading Help Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsamal (Post 2127031) I've been using a Lee Turret press with Lee dies since 1986. I've _never_ broken a decapping pin. I've had it hit the bottom of a Berdan case and then slide upward but not break. I usually curse then because I have to get out two different sizes of open end wrench to reset and tighten the pin but it's a lot better than it breaking! Gregg
I agree. I always keep an adjustable and fixed wrench on my reloading bench for this eventuality. I'd rather have to put it back then break it off.

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