DOGS
 

The dog kennel thread reminded me of something i wanted to ask.

Whats your favourite dog for when "it" happens?

We have a pyranees for our outdoors and he is one great dog for keeping out other animals and was born to kill coyotes and racoons.

The problem is he barks all the time so if "it" ever happened there would be to many false alarms for bio-pod type intrudures.Plus i am doubting his agressivness to actually do anything to something that is bigger than him.

Interior wise we've always had boxers,which fill all the qualifications of great guard dogs,minus a little light on stopping power and cant handle outdoor cold very well.

Opinions?

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I hate them because I fear them; Rottweilers.
Can you feed it come SHTF?

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I have thought that dogs like border collies, would make the best SHTF dogs. The are very intelligent, adaptable to a variety of tasks and are relatively small. (easy on feed).

We have labs and a German Shorthair/Lab mix. All fairly useless in a SHTF situation, but we do love them!

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A small yappy Chiuahuahua is just a good as a Rottweiller, but what I really need is a dog who will alert me and let me handle the situation, a fighting dog migh just open up a situation where you need to determine the level of the encounter, not the dog, fighting dogs are liable to be poisoned but small noisy dogs kept close at hand will provide to be worth their weight in gold.

Geese are a fine example of this, they are a valuable alarm and eat light.

Think about why a fighting dog would be a choice, could you feed it, could you protect it? Can you control it?

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Interesting video on dog attack styles:


Features the bulldog, mastiff, malinois, and dutch shepherd .

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We have a Rhodesian Ridge back and are extremely satisfied. Great shtf dog. Loyal, disciplined, obedient and protective. Not overly aggressive and is great around children.

Our dog rarely barks unless there is a strange person coming around our house. Too each his own though.

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I think the key to a good dog is a dog that only alerts when a stranger or strange sounds are detected on your property. My dogs will only bark at a stranger, a strangers voice, or a strange car on the property and more importantly they will not bark again if I ask them to "no bark". I know they would attack someone to protect me, but that would be a last resort. They are better used as alarms.

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Only one kind of "security" dog -

http://germanshepherdpuppiesblog.com/files/864374.jpg

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http://www.guineafowl.com/fritsfarm/...otos/loisc.jpg

Best watchdogs on the planet. Easy to feed, NO one is sneaking up on you.

If I had a few more acres, I would have a flock of them.

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When you think about it the subject has probably been argued about back into the stone age.

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I love all dogs - they are truly man's best friend. But when one seeks a dog for reasons of security, there is one canine which stands [squats?] above all the rest: the miniature schnauzer. Ferocious, yet cute, the miniature schnauzer combines intelligence and charm into a compact package capable of delivering a devastating attack in a flash. Of all the "mini's," the most cunning, the most feared, is the Grey Miniature Schnauzer, particularly the female. Her skills as guard dog and sentinel are non pareil. It has been said [by me] that the grey mini can detect the sound of a doe farting at 1000 yards, through dense forest, drywall and curtain. I am the proud owner of one of the finer members of this magnificent breed - she agreed to pose for a quick photo in exchange for a milkbone treat, so we are indeed fortunate:

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How true. Such is the bond between us and our canine companions.

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Being new to the forum, I'd just like to add that if you raise any dog to behave, they will. I have this Dobie named Taezzar, sounds like "taser", she is totally harmless, as you can see. However, she will stop ANY STRANGER dead in their tracks when the come onto the property. She has never bitten a human or any animals. Her bark can be heard for 1/2 a mile. The neighbors love her because she only barks when it matters. I prefer a large dog for the intimidation factor & a Dobie is one of the best for that. Juat my 2 cents.
TAEZZAR :bear_thumb:

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We have a great dog getting up in years that the pound thought was a german wire hair pointer chocolate lab mix. I suspect she was the only solid liver in a spotted unregistered litter because she cannot be distinguished in any point of confirmation from pictures of champion gwh pointers, or in instincts. If I did not want to keep poultry I would get another. She is an all around hunting dog - hunts fur or feathers, follows blood trails, points, flushes, and retrieves, and takes care of pest furry invaders. She is not yappy and barks appropriately.

But since we want poultry our next dog will likely be the farm collie, lassies unspoiled antecedent that was the standard American farm dog in the 30s. They have a much gentler herding style than border collies and can herd everything from bulls to chicks. And are they ever smart and resourceful. (so is our current dog, but she thinks birds are for eating) Because the farm collie, which I think is now called the 'english shepherd', not to be confused with the hair ball english sheepdog.

edit - got ahead of myself and left out a whole concept. Some breeds were bred to be kind of robodog: extremely obedient. They win dog IQ contests for that reason. Poodles and german shepherds are in that general category and they are much easier to train. Other breeds were bred to work independently a lot. The pyranees is an extreme of that, sometimes left in an alpine meadow all summer with part of a flock and the shepherd elsewhere. They are very protective, bred for that profound quiet and do bark too much in our noisy world. They need lower population density to be at their best, but in an isolated bug out retreat, they would guard your stock impeccably. The wire haired pointers were bred to range a large area around a walking human hunter, and think for themselves as to how to best help you hunt. So they decide for themselves when to 'come', for example, sometimes if they are on a trail they consider rewarding to you and them. It is a looser partnership. I consider her IQ through the roof, but she would never win an ordinary obedience prize. I have seen her remember very complex sequences after 1 try, or in another kind of intelligence, put a toddler dying to pet her at ease by lying down near the child with her back turned and pretending to sleep as the kid inches up and clumsily pets her. Being on the front side, I could see her eyes were open, but not wide. It was all a ruse as a kindness to the child.

The farm or english collies have that 'think for yourself' kind of intelligence too, which border collies, being bred to win trials working with a handler, have had bred pretty well out of them. I consider that a loss, but they are more likely to do as told without variance, while the breeds meant to work without you (scotties are another) have the defect of deciding when to mind that is also a plus if, say, a terrible storm blows up when you told them to hold poultry in a grazing area and you are not there to change the orders.

Anyway, since they are brilliant dogs, english collies will learn even unfenced bounds and hold your stock there and protect it, and make 'executive decisions' like taking the animals in its care to the barn if some danger arises, they are a superb help with domestic stock of all kinds, and protective without being mean.

However, they are not very big, so we are still debating whether to take on feeding a german shepherd or rottweiler companion. We want only dogs of herding heritage for the safety of the hens. A bird dog is gonna be a bird dog no matter how hard it tries, and will slip up eventually if kept with poultry. Or most will. Plus I consider it cruel to ask a dog to act against its instinct that severely.

wikipedia on the breed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Shepherd

So we may just stick with 1 easier feeder at about 45 pounds. Dad had one growing up and would walk the border of the area he wanted the stock to graze that day, and his dog held them there. Then after bringing in the stock they hunted at twilight and the dog would run rabbits past him or tree a squirrel for him.

The only downside of a true working dog is that they love to work and their intelligence turns to mischief if they are left alone long hours with no work or companionship. So you need one at home family member, or stock for them to tend in your absence or get a lazier breed.

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Welcome, TAEZZAR. The dobies I have known have been sweet natured dogs. I think the mean ones were made mean by a mean or neglectful human, in most cases.

Canuck, unless you have an unusual dog, if someone hit you or tried to hurt your livestock I think your dog would be very likely to injure or kill them. Just not for being where they shouldn't. Historically they sometimes killed would be sheep thieves. Of course it depends on how you have trained it too, and its individual personality vs breed type.

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I knew somebody would beat me to this. "Cept the geese. You're right about them, but constant decent living conditions makes for a bad time>>>>dogs kill geese.

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She is beauuuuutiful. And she has such an intelligent and stalwart glint in the eye! I am smitten.

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My idea of a good SHTF dog is.....

A dog that will watch!
Attachment 65902

They will also help you keep the stock rounded up!
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They make you laugh when their is nothing else to do!
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Of course, they have to be able to handle a SHTF vehicle.
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Or just look pretty doing what comes natural.
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The Australian Shepherd is a good all round dog. They want to be with you more than anything. They are great foot/bed warmers. Willing to do anything you want. They are the best watch dogs. There have been times when my dog let me know they dont like someone and would stand between me and that person and would not let them get close to me.

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Thank you! Her name is Missy and she is 7 years old. I have two other dogs, a giant black schnauzer male who is 2, and black miniature schnauzer female who is just 1. Missy is the "old grey lady" of the house who we variously refer to as "the old lady," "Missy," "the professional schnauzer" or "bitch," because she lets the other two dogs know that she is in charge. The other two are inseparable and play for hours together; Missy stays to herself and is rather disdainful of the playful youngest one. Missy is very smart - I mean scary smart - and she is far and away the smartest of the three (the giant is a big lovable goofball). And she is a real sneaky rascal, finding ways to steal candy, socks, stuffed animals and other items from places she seemingly had no way to access. Also, she is a talker, and has different sounding barks depending on whether she wants to go out, water, food, or join you on the chair or bed. At night, she jumps into our bed next to me under the covers and proceeds to ritualistically lick my face, neck and chest for about 10 minutes before she plops down next to me and falls asleep. Most of the time, she is rather aloof and quirky, and will not let me pick her up unless I offer her a treat or greenie (the latter make her crazy!) - she is a real bitch!!!!:111:

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Am I the only one around here who keeps the dogs out of my bed?

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The South African Boerboel is a guard/ranch dog that can stop any intruder in thier tracks. They are similar to a bull mastiff but are a lot more active and live longer. They have an incredible tolerance for pain. They need a strong willed person to handle them though.

http://users.skynet.be/maklikreg.boe..._2006BERRE.jpg

Also agree on the Mini schnauzer are one of the best watch dogs. Smart and very aware of thier surroundings. Have an ear piercing bark , built stout , agile and fast. Being suspicious of strangers makes a good watch dog.
http://www.puppyparadise.com/images/...rocket300b.jpg

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In my experience, 95% of people are scared sh*tless of big black dogs. My Shepherd/Rotty mix is super fierce and protective. The lab, not so much...

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I'm specifically scared sh!tless of big black dogs with frickin' laser beams for eyes. :)

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You sound like Dr. Evil: "C'mon people, throw me a frickin' bone here - all I wanted was frickin' big black dogs with frickin' laser beams for eyes!"

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Thanks AM for your post, that clears up a lot of things for me, regarding this breed of dog. My grandfather and other farmers in his area of S. Dakota had dogs like these, I always called them "farm dogs", as I'm sure they weren't purebred. In my inital post in the thread, I mentioned "border collie" type dogs, while I was thinking about the dog you describe. They truly are all-purpose dogs and do love to work!

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Yeah--didn't one those dogs star in one of the Harry Potter movies as "The Grim?"

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Lasers activated... heh :wink:

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I'd say that's a pretty intimidating sight: "nice pooch....nice pooch" (said with quiet calming tone while planning an escape).

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I dont know,i've worked with dogs and looks and info in books isnt always usefull.

Some dogs out there will simply go to the wall for their human family i dont know about the pyranees breed,boxers and boxer types are what i trust.

Might get a pit before they are outlawed.Also talked to a guy who actively breeds mastiffs and cane corsos for an ultimate stopping machine.

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Owning big dogs - and a cautionary tale or two.

Owned dogs all my life,

Everything from heelers and aussie sheperds to

Cairn terriers to Irish water spaniels to

Akitas.

Akitas are my all time favorites.

They are not herd dogs.

They were bred for hunting big game (boar, bear) and defense.

Massive structure combined with massive intelligence.

The ones I've owned only bark once.

That is the one warning you get before the s...t goes down.

O.K.

Now the cautionary part.

I haven't kept an Akita for the last 5 years.

Reason? Big dogs are very time intensive, and you can't just let them run.

Unless you can commit to that, don't even go there.

My present job, unfortunately, does not allow me adequate time to handle

Akitas on a daily basis.

Cautionary part II:

Big dogs are generally herd/pack animals. By this I mean

That they behave - or misbehave - according to a strict hierarchy

Governed by an alpha male/female.

The two Akitas I started with were both being given away by owners

Who characterized them as "uncontrollable."

Not true. It was the humans who lacked control.

Diana, the female, weighed about 70 lbs., and was chained

With an 8' log chain to a 2" galvanized iron pipe driven into the ground,

When I first met her. Her owner was mighty nervous about me even getting close.

So I squatted down and just talked -

By the way in my experience extended direct eye contact with dogs

Of this sort is serious threat language.

After awhile I stood up and she came up to me

I unhooked the log chain and clipped a light leash to her collar,

And asked her to heel, gently brought her to heel,

And down the hill we went.

At one point I looked back and her previous owner was just

Standing there trying to pick his face up off the ground.

I laughed, and Diana grinned.

Random, the male was just a big (130 lb.) goof.

Similar experience, but without leash, just grabbed his collar

And away we went.

Now, life in the pack.

So I have this houseful of Akitas, six of them,

Because Random and Diana had their first litter.

The only male pup, Fugu, was huge from day one.

18 months later he was 167 pounds dry weight, full of teenage

Testosterone, and spoiling for a fight with his Dad.

Alpha male stuff kicking in. Random warned him off a few times.

Then one evening just after work all hell broke loose.

Fugu went for Random - this went down in the living room -

And lamps chairs coffee tables and the 300 pounds of dogs were airborne.

As was me.

I lit into both of them and within 60 seconds they were in opposite corners

Prone and absolutely contrite. Because the actual Alpha male has just stepped

In and kicked their butts.

And they never even got close to it again.

I had a nasty two sided puncture in my right forearm, from which one I do not know.

Now the above is not a boast, it is what it is like, in my experience,

To handle big dogs without bad consequences.

By the way, I am not a professional dog handler, and would strongly suggest

That if you plan on getting a dog, or have a dog that you are having problems with,

Study up and find a pro.

By the way, worst dogbite I ever got was from a Dachshund which

Came out of nowhere when I was walking down the sidewalk of

A residential street and absolutely bit the crap out of my calf

Through jeans and everything, severing a major vein in the process.

I'll get off the soapbox now.


scyth

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More lasers:

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A pack of wild Jack Russells is said to be the most deadly dog force known to man. In the good ole days they would rampage through a city and if they happened upon you at the wrong time you got disemboweled.

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Thanks for the welcome AMforPM,
Yes, my experience with Dobies & other breeds is you get what you give. We treat her as family, as I can see many of the other dogs posted are so treated too. A good dog of any breed is a pleasure to behold.

However, here is a "dog" that is aggresive no matter how you raise him !!!
He has no fear of ANYTHING !! And once you've had one for a few years & learn how to "read" them, a Macaw, in day light, will alert you of almost anything that moves.

TAEZZAR :emotions16:

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'Nuff said.....

http://www.appscout.com/images/chipmunk.gif

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we have a pyranees. they do a perimeter bark i think." i'm here u stay away". their bark is different for various situations & for us our other dogs can tell & i can some[listen for intensity].

they are not primarily know as attack dogs but take on bears to protect. it is very difficult for animals/dogs to hurt them due to hair. & very very alert at night!!! & sweet, loving!

they will stay between intruder & those they care for.

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Canuck

While I agree with the above that your P would likely protect you, for pure brave protection w/o dangerous meanness, you might look into Airedales. They were bred to go in with a pack of other types of dogs hunting dangerous game, and stay and die for you if something went wrong. They were used on tiger hunts and in the US, mountain lion hunts. Yet they do poorly as police or war dogs because they just aren't mean. In WW1 they were used as messenger dogs and some came in with legs missing, but completed their mission before bleeding to death. They will stand by you when the chips are down, but not growl at your friends over nothing. Only if something or someone is attacking do they step up.

Their worst fault, IMO, is they have doggie hair odor off the charts if not bathed a lot.

I'm glad the english shepherd, or farm collie, is remembered. The Aussie shep is a close relative. IMO the border collie has been ruined by the competitions taking over the champion lines for too many generations.

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Could a pack of wild Jack Russells withstand the enormous ferocity of one miniature schnauzer?