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Infidel | 06-24-2006 06:15 PM
Enjoy the hot water - Solar Thermal Heater http://www.thesietch.org/projects/so...nel2/index.htm

JCarvingblock | 06-24-2006 07:41 PM
Re: Enjoy the hot water - Solar Thermal Heater I've got solar panels on my roof and some years experience, so listen up. I wouldn't put them on the roof again. Way too much of a problem when it comes time to do any servicing. If you have the space, put them at ground level, and put all the controls and pumps in the same place. You could build them cheap, and here is how. Black ABS pipe which is sold for sewer lines in some parts of the country. Use large diameter pipe. 3 inch or 4 inch. Buy a bunch of T fittings and cut a bunch (how big do you want this thing?) of pieces all the same length. 20 foot lengths of pipe divide equally at four or five feet or 6 foot 8 inch. Put a T fitting at each end working on a flat area so the Ts will be in the same plane, glue up the Ts first, then starting at one side install a screw in fitting first on one side and a short piece of pipe glued in on the other. Glue up all the pieces until you get to the other side of your assembly and end up with a screwed in clean out plug. Sooner or later you will want to run a rag through the header and footer of the assembly. Big enough and you have 50 gallons or more of water capacity. Backer insulation - expanded polystyrene. Glazing - polycarbonate sandwich panels. Light weight and non-breakable. Use some screw down battens to secure the polycarbonate glazing because about every five years you will need to open up the glazing and clean it. This thing will provide hot water for hot water use, and a significant quantity of your heat needs depending on your climate and the size of the unit. My units were professionally made and have the small tubing in pressed metal panels. They require pumps to move the heat and that means the electricity needs to be on. Think about what happens when the power goes off if somebody hits a power line mid summer in full sun. Those small tubes go to a full boil in about ten minutes whereafter blow-off valves open and since mine have RV anti-freeze a significant quantity of anti-freeze flushes out of the header tank. Serious problem. Anyone contemplating such a system contact me via private message. Carvingblock

JCarvingblock | 06-24-2006 08:16 PM
Re: Enjoy the hot water - Solar Thermal Heater Since pictures convey an idea much better than words, here are some pictures: http://jc-solarhomes.com/image/thumbs/howto.3.gif http://jc-solarhomes.com/image/thumbs/howto.3.gif From http://jc-solarhomes.com/how_to.htm Just do a search for "parallel tube hot water solar collector" to find more pages like this one. What I am saying is put in clean-out screw plugs in the header and footer so you can open them and flush out any hard water deposits or clay from your water supply. With large diameter pipe and a header tank, the thing can be thermo siphoning and does not require a pump except to move the hot water to where you need it. For the polycarbonate, here is Sundance Supply. There are others, but these guys have been around for a long time. http://www.sundancesupply.com/index2.html Here is an image of the cross section of that material: http://www.sundancesupply.com/CrossSection.gif http://www.sundancesupply.com/CrossSection.gif Select http://www.sundancesupply.com/DesignInstall.html for installation PDF files on how to do these things. Stuppy is also a big old outfit: http://www.stuppy.com/ I would build the thing into a small shed - super insulated - that is either free standing or leaning on a wall of the home and put all the controls and pumps in one place. Consider possible freezing and/or no electic possibilities. Carver

Ponce Cuba | 06-24-2006 08:41 PM
Re: Enjoy the hot water - Solar Thermal Heater I also have "solar pannels" on my roof so please don't confuse them with "solar water heather pannels" wich is what you are talking about.......

Infidel | 06-25-2006 04:42 AM
Re: Enjoy the hot water - Solar Thermal Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by article This entire project cost less than five dollars, as I already had the screws, and the duct tape. The only thing I purchased was the air hose, which cost $3.76.
and you had one built. The difference is ...? Well that is a hundred dollar question isn't it? I'm not dogging your advice. better have one thread for this thing than two separate ones, just pointing out the obvious.

JCarvingblock | 06-25-2006 10:41 AM
Re: Enjoy the hot water - Solar Thermal Heater Mine cost $500 for the used setup which had been in the thousands the first time around. I got something like 7 Grundfoss pumps, a bunch of valves and piping and six solar panels. It was a removed unit from a dis-satisfied customer. And, I worked professionally in construction all my life and have a number of technical skills. So, besides my labor, I have stuck hundreds more into this setup and associated facilities so I have hotwater heaters with interchange ability. The real point is that this is STILL a PROBLEMATIC INSTALLATION. What I described is that by using large diameter ABS pipe for the collectors and polycarbonate glazing and putting the thing where it is easy to access, you have a better chance at getting satisfactory results. The cheap unit described in the article is not going to work at a level that will satisfy the needs of the average homeowner. Even with pumps and controls and providing for unusual but recurrent events such as freezing and power outages, problems will need solutions. If you put it on the roof and problems happen as they will, you need to get up on the roof to solve the problems. My glass glazing that has been in place for eight years now has condensation inside. It needs to be removed and cleaned. If it was polycarbonate held in place with screwed on battons, this would be an easier task. Cheaper than the ABS tubing would be black ethylene water pipe in a large diameter, but it wants to be in curves and will need to be fastened down. Whatever. If anyone is serious, contact me via private message. Carvingblock

Ponce Cuba | 06-25-2006 01:49 PM
Re: Enjoy the hot water - Solar Thermal Heater Sorry buddy but the roof would be the right place where to place the Solar Water Heather Pannel and there are many reasons to do this...... To start with I would do it in a sanwich box between to pieces of glass and what would happen is that the direct sunlight would shine into the box and the box itself would serve as a thermo bottle (paint everything black), also the heat collected by the roof, shingles and the attict under the roof would also help to heat up the box faster and retain the heat longer. Placing the box on the ground would be inviting trouble what with the broken glass and or pipes (and distance to your hot water tank) and the wind circulating around and cooling the box.

JCarvingblock | 06-25-2006 03:49 PM
Re: Enjoy the hot water - Solar Thermal Heater Please be my guest and place it anywhere you want to. All I am telling you about is problems I have experienced with my roof units. If someone were building new, a spot could be designed into the structure where service access could be made more convenient. In the long run, glass is the superior product above polycarbonate. No doubt in my mind. I've got the one way thermal glass - the good stuff. But now it needs cleaning and those sheets are like 50-60 pounds and in size 33.5 inches wide by 96 inches long. And - oh yeah - nobody figured out an easy way to hinge the panes or anything. They are sitting a caulked dado joint. http://www.furniturebuying.com/pages...inery/dado.jpg All I'm saying is if the glazing were polycarbonate held in place with screwed on battons, cleaning it would be much easier. Especially since the polycarbonate would weigh about 10 pounds and it wouldn't break if you dropped it. I personally try to learn from other people's mistakes, but you go ahead and try to make them all yourself; I won't make much effort to stop you. And as for saving money; don't know whether you have noticed or not, but if you throw a garden hose down on the ground in full sun, next time you open the sprinkler, the water is quite hot. Can't get much cheaper than that. Carvingblock

Ponce Cuba | 06-25-2006 04:26 PM
Re: Enjoy the hot water - Solar Thermal Heater You are now talking about a water hose laying on the ground with the water off and not running and I am talkihg about the water running through the pipes......besides, if you are such an "expert" you yould know that there is a way to run the colder water at the bottom of the tank again and again through the heating pipes (for free) till the top and bottom water in the tank have the same temperature. In winter all that you would need is a small on demand water heater attached to the pipe bringing in the warm water from your solar heated water tank...... by the way, if done right even the hot water tank can be left outside where the sun would keep it hot in summer and that you could encased with a insulating cover in winter time. It is better to form SSSSS in the hot water solar pannel instead or funning them IIIII, make the outlet smaller than the inlet and the preassure of the hot water will push it in and out of the tank at free preassure..... this free preassure can be use either to send the water back in circulation to reheated it or to send it into the house. While I am not an "expert" like you I do enjoy experimenting in different things and what I wrote above was one of my endeavors... good luck.

Ponce Cuba | 06-25-2006 04:31 PM
Re: Enjoy the hot water - Solar Thermal Heater Amost forgot, about cleaning your glass, I have made holes in glass and attached three hinges at one end with a handle at the other end in order to lift the glass up....... the glass would be the female and with the enclousre, or box, being the male.

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