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R MacDonald | 01-25-2007 08:10 PM
A Primitivist Strategy Proposal "Now What?" A Primitivist Strategy Proposal by RedWolfReturns RedWolfReturns@hotmail.com http://www.insurgentdesire.org.uk/nowwhat.htm For those of us who have come to an encounter with the primitivist vision & critique of civilization, one very big & fundamental question always seems to remain burning in our hearts & minds; "now what?" The question is certainly a damned-difficult one. It is a question I've wrestled with plenty in recent years and will continue to wrestle with into the foreseeable future. Just what the hell does one do next, once they finally wake up to a comprehensive critique of civilization--right in the middle of the most awesomely-powerful, destructive & dominating industrial civilization the Earth has ever seen? Any answer to such an overwhelming question is bound to sound a bit absurd depending on how you look at it (and I'm sure mine will be no exception). At any rate, the following is my own attempt to propose a reasonable & hopefully effective short & long-term strategy for primitivist action in our present context. First of all, I think we need to begin opening space for safe-havens where people can build community & learn through daily-practice how to live in a direct, unmediated, and semi-primitive way. People need to be given the chance to re-acquire a taste for the experience of an authentic, intimate & sharing relationship with eachother, the Land, and it's Wild Life. We can begin opening space for this by purchasing small plots of land near national forest and wilderness, or by living nomadic lives while camping or squatting on national forest land (where one can legally camp at any given spot for two weeks after they've been discovered by the authorities, as long as no permanent structures have been built). If the Land is purchased, open it up for fellow primitivists to stay there long-term or (if they have more nomadic tendencies) as they pass through the area. People can hunt/fish/gather/trap/camp on public land, while being loosely based on private land as needed. If a squatter's camp is erected in the national forest, its location can then be made known through informal networks so that hospitality can be extended to those who might like to come & live there as well. If we had a network of these safe-havens around North America, an informal circuit of nomadic or semi-nomadic bands (families, affinity groups, friends, individuals) could get to know eachother & learn to live in new, neo-primitive ways with active support from eachother. Such support would then tend to build strong bonds of affinity. The people who own any actual land bases should be fairly careful to avoid raising the attention of the state (especially while they are still in the early formative stages). And this should be fairly easy, since the primitive skills movement in America is currently fairly accepted as a quaint hobbyist activity with unmolested schools/camps springing up all over the place. Only we have to know there is more going on than just a bunch of hobbyists playing around (and since the "more going on" will also include a lot of "playing around" this shouldn't be such a problem). Of course, the nomadic primitivists who circuit between these safe-havens will not be restricted with this concern (except of course, while at/near the safe-haven�primitivists shouldn�t @#%$ in their own houses, either metaphorically or literally), and as long as they remain smart relative to security culture, they can & should act/resist in any way they see fit. It is my personal belief that non-native Americans basically need to be "re-indigenized"�we need to become truly intimate & connected with the Land again if we are ever to learn how to live without making constant war on our Wild Relations. Once opened, these safe-havens can hopefully become a place where we non-native Americans can respectfully ask the Spirits of the Land to re-create us as authentic indigenous people once again. We can follow the lead of many American Indians who are re-connecting & re-viving their Old-Ways, but there is a lot more that we non-natives will have to do in the process, because the break with Balance is so much more severe. Respectfully ask for help from traditional American Indians (and give them back whatever kind of help they ask for--build allies) in this process, but ask for even more help from the Wild Life & Spirits of the Land where you live. Also, be cautious & sensitive to the risks of expropriation when relating to the cultures of American Indians--we want to get in touch with our own hearts enough to honestly re-create OUR OWN authentic Earth-based cultures, rather than stealing from Indigenous Peoples as civilization is already doing. Looking into the current revival of pre-Christian European pagan spirituality may be of help here for some of us, but certainly be careful around the use of agricultural ritual & magic. And again, the primary teachers need to come directly from the Land, not from books. Next, we need to be willing & able to defend our communities & the land upon which they depend with whatever works--whether that involves "being nice" or "being nasty" depends on an honest appraisal of the situation & what will ultimately & realistically serve the community (human and non-human). Often the best defense of the weak consists of some form & combination of camouflage, illusion, mobility & adaptability. Any actual confrontation must be approached with the utmost of care & cunning. Also, take lessons from how indigenous peoples have defended themselves & their land--everything from how the Seminoles gained the name "the unconquered" (www.abfla.com/1tocf/seminole/semhistory.html and www.seminoletribe.com) to how the Ojibwe worked with white sportsmen to stop the Crandon Mine from destroying the land upon which they depend (www.treatyland.com/index.html). As this re-wilding movement grows among us as aspiring neo-primitive humans, we can also help to facilitate the same process on the Land itself through support for visions like the Wild Earth Project (www.twp.org). Then as more wild land opens up, more space is created for more neo-primitive safe-havens. In this way, rewilding the People will support rewilding the Land and rewilding the Land will support rewilding the People. Beyond that, once this movement grows strong enough & something happens to tip the scales (like the oil running out or Mother Earth turning the tables on agricultural civilization through climate change) then we can move towards the offensive end of the spectrum and begin to make use of any & all opportunities created by any such shift. Exactly what this will look like cannot accurately be foreseen at this point, but any actions taken will certainly grow out of the character of a rewilded & reindigenized community, and will of course reflect the Earth-intimate culture from which they spontaneously spring. Wisdom & Respect will likely be the norm for any such People at that point. "...give me a wildness whose glance no civilization can endure..." --Thoreau HOME

ForeverInDebt | 01-25-2007 09:00 PM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal Quote:
I think we need to begin opening space for safe-havens where people can build community & learn through daily-practice how to live in a direct, unmediated, and semi-primitive way. People need to be given the chance to re-acquire a taste for the experience of an authentic, intimate & sharing relationship with eachother, the Land, and it's Wild Life.
Very good suggestion.

Kahlil Gibran | 01-25-2007 09:43 PM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal Quote:
Originally Posted by R MacDonald (Post 486920) People need to be given the chance to re-acquire a taste for the experience of an authentic, intimate & sharing relationship with each other, the Land, and it's Wild Life.
:pcguru: got a link to that website?

R MacDonald | 01-25-2007 11:42 PM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 487007) :pcguru: got a link to that website?
http://www.insurgentdesire.org.uk/nowwhat.htm http://www.insurgentdesire.org.uk/ Lots of interesting stuff.

electric-amish | 01-26-2007 12:45 AM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal I have been thinking about survivalist theory and practice. I am comeing to a problem over and over again. Standard thinking is SHTF then its all primitive skills that get you through. I wonder if this even remotely is the answer for a great number of people. Maybe we should up the technology used instead of going back 200 yrs. I don't have the answer but I kind of hate the idea of going backwards in the face of a problem. I am not the most hard headed guy or calling for the Brave new world but it seems defeatist to fall backwards at a time of crisis. Laser beams not bows and arrows. Electric-Amish

GB1980 | 01-26-2007 07:53 AM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal WOW--just what we need another touchy-feely--tree hugger to tell us to go backwards and exist like we did back in the cave man days. It would be better to think of ways to keep our way of living although adjusted somewhat due to things getting way out of hand (WTSHTF). Good luck with that strategy---NOT!

RiverRat | 01-26-2007 09:25 AM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal :cool2: Good Post RMac... Not exactly tree hugger philosophy...more like semi nomadic sheep herders...without the sheep. Rush to the national forests and go native ? Yep...The Black Helicopter Guys will love that...easier to round up bigger groups with less effort. His theory might work in Yellowknife or some extreme location a couple hundred miles from established population centers,otherwise the desperate starving hoardes would eat them for breakfast. Again...like lot's of other highly optimistic people he thinks his neighbor wouldn't shoot him for a can of tuna. Somehow the illusion that the (just in time) structure of the entire US food distribution system will cease to exist has never crossed his mind.Better have quite a stash before you venture out and depend on rabbit snares and acorns for three squares a day. What's for breakfast Sweetheart ? Well,we got wild onions and a few grubs...how about a nice stir fry ? Ever saw a hundred crazed deer hunters on public land trying to kill five deer ? Multiply that by five and remember they have guns. Not exactly your typical Lord of The Flys,live off the land scenario. The problem is the land will not support massive extermination of limited wildlife for food. If this guy is a hard core survivalist we definitely went to different schools. If you don't have any primitive skills now it will be much too late to acquire them after the fact...that much I agree with. One of the reasons the Native Americans could live off the land was their willingness to chuck political correctness out of their vocabulary.I don't think the concept of welfare checks and free medical care ever occurred to them. Illegals in their territory ? Slave bait...the Indians were really big into extermination or slavery of competing tribes who dared to venture onto their turf. The sheep are doomed,I tell ya...doomed. :cool2: :cool2:

damoc | 01-26-2007 10:10 AM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal I dont believe falling back to primitive hunter gatherer society is any answer or solution wtshtf there just is not enough land to support it just look at the population estimates of hunter gatherer,s prior to european "civilising" and compare that to now.there will be a drop back in technology due to what is suportable or repairable but I cant see it going all the way back to the stone age.I do however believe that primitive skills will be invaluable wtshtf.I think that small towns or comunities will be better prepared to provide for the needs of survival and defend themselves when needed no one person can do it all

wallew | 01-26-2007 10:18 AM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal This guy lost the argument when he said this : Just what the hell does one do next, once they finally wake up to a comprehensive critique of civilization--right in the middle of the most awesomely-powerful, destructive & dominating industrial civilization the Earth has ever seen? Apparently this guy NEVER heard of the ROMANS. The most powerful, destrutive AND dominating civilzation the Earth has ever seen. Speaking from strictly of the number of people killed in wars, AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL POPULATION, the Romans were FAR BLOODIER than the US. At least we don't have GLADIATORS THAT KILL EACH OTHER FOR SPORT every Sunday. Before you go off on that statement, sports IS LIKE the Coliseum, but RARELY does anyone actually die. AND NEVER has the 'emperor' sat in his box and gave a thumbs up/thumbs down on ANYONE. This guy is completely whacked. Just another 'hate myself, hate my life, there's GOT to be a better way' kind of person. Pitifully sad, socialistic liberal viewpoint. This person needs to get some education, get a good job, then go out and get a life. But NOOOO, he'd rather squat in the forest, eating his own refuse.

TheSimpleton | 01-26-2007 12:44 PM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal This reminds me of the "if things get bad, I'll just go poach deer" argument. Yeah--good thing nobody ELSE ever thought of that. Here's the reality: FARC. They live in the woods separatists from Columbia. If they didn't have big guns, Columbia would sweep in and collect taxes, etc, what SOME of the people are there to escape. On the other hand, FARC takes whatever they want from people within their zone in a way less friendly and predictable than yearly taxes mailed to Bagota. Most are just caught in the crossfire. Ok, here's your next reality: Lakota. The Lakota were never defeated by the US Army, and in fact, defeated them at Little Big Horn. Did it help? No. Why? Not enough land to support their people once the herds were deminished. These were not a soft TV-watching people, and the same thing happened with remaining hidden Apaches and other western tribes. Eventually the world was too small and there were too many people to survive on your range. With so many people, you cannot light a single fire without being seen and attacked, or make a single trail in mud or snow. --That's a level of careful even creatures of the wilds can't maintain. See our friend in the Adirondacks for 20 years. One trail in the snow and it was over. Okay, now what are you going to eat? Crops? Why won't others steal them? Are you going to shoot the looters? Then people whine and it's called a "dangerous area, armed rebels..." you get the picture. They sweep in and round everybody up. Perhaps this gentleman never saw "Cold Mountain" where they did this kind of thing. Not that I'm against what he's proposing, but right out of the gate, it's not going to work very well. He seems to feel that primitism is like a big Rainbow Festival, where there won't be any leeches hanging on, not working, stealing, making trouble, and everyone will help each other out without ratting on anybody, getting possessive, or collecting rewards for telling where the squatter's cabins are. Ask Young Ned of the Hill about that one. Okay, good rough draft, good proposal. Now can anyone propose a way that it can be made functional given the likely challenges? Hash it out. If not, perhaps this particular sentiment and plan should go by the wayside until government is far less strong and there remains no one to inform to, and no one to enforce it. TS

Halophyte | 01-26-2007 01:45 PM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal 'Gultching'

Kahlil Gibran | 01-26-2007 05:21 PM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal Claude Dallas

Unclad Lad | 01-27-2007 01:05 AM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal Try this place: http://anthropik.com

R MacDonald | 01-27-2007 01:13 AM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal RR, That's why you need to go deep, like about 100-200 miles out. The ones that are not prepared won't make it, or will kill each other off.

RiverRat | 01-27-2007 03:51 AM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal :cool2: RMac....deep huh ? Yep,100 miles sounds about right. From my experience as a backpacker and deer hunter 10 miles off the beaten path seems to be the range limit of most sheep. Unless they can ride in on horses or 4 wheelers they abandon all hope at about the 5 mile point.Rarely do I encounter anyone willing to go 10 miles deep on foot. 10 miles deep into the forest is equal to 100 miles on a paved road. Hard core road bikers think a 100 mile run is easily done in two days. Take away their bicycle and the same bikers halts at the five mile mark in the deep woods.Maybe on established trails they would last longer,but overland no way Jose'. Good point RMac :D :D

R MacDonald | 01-27-2007 04:25 AM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 488479) :cool2: RMac....deep huh ? Yep,100 miles sounds about right. From my experience as a backpacker and deer hunter 10 miles off the beaten path seems to be the range limit of most sheep. Unless they can ride in on horses or 4 wheelers they abandon all hope at about the 5 mile point.Rarely do I encounter anyone willing to go 10 miles deep on foot. 10 miles deep into the forest is equal to 100 miles on a paved road. Hard core road bikers think a 100 mile run is easily done in two days. Take away their bicycle and the same bikers halts at the five mile mark in the deep woods.Maybe on established trails they would last longer,but overland no way Jose'. Good point RMac :D :D
Don't forget also that all the desperate 'hunters' will chase the quarry right to you. :beer: [thanks dumbasses] :emotions16:

elroy | 01-27-2007 10:27 AM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal I read an article that stated after the great depression the state of Georgia was devoid of all deer. In less than 10 years hunters trying to feed their families eliminated the entire deer population in the state. Now consider the fact that the population of Georgia today is probably 5-10 times what it was then. Without our modern farming techniques and factory food production most Americans would starve to death.

Halophyte | 01-27-2007 10:35 AM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 488479) :cool2: RMac....deep huh ? Yep,100 miles sounds about right. From my experience as a backpacker and deer hunter 10 miles off the beaten path seems to be the range limit of most sheep. Unless they can ride in on horses or 4 wheelers they abandon all hope at about the 5 mile point.Rarely do I encounter anyone willing to go 10 miles deep on foot.
Lower and Upper Kentla lake via Brown Pass / Hole in the Wall, Glacier Park, across the divide and back, did it in four days with a lot of heavy chit on my back. 1st camp - upper Kentla 2nd camp - on the divide, saddle Kentla Mountain (Brown Pass) 3rd camp - after passing thru brown pass, down 2000ft thru the Hole in the Wall. 4th camp - other side of Kentla lake, big storm, really sucked. 5th day - Walk out ... to hitch a ride back twenty miles to starting point. I would do it again with 1/3 the weight of today's equipment. .

electric-amish | 01-27-2007 10:37 AM
Re: A Primitivist Strategy Proposal Elroy Same in Missouri---1930s there were less than 200 deer in Missouri and like 26 turkeys. There is far more game in the woods now than when I was a boy in the 60s. People have moved away from shooting to eat and animals are back. They would go quickly you could count on that. E-A

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