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branshew | 01-06-2010 11:44 PM
Seeds & Seed Selection After digging through more old threads as I find my way through this site, I have found an area where I thought that I could make a valid contribution. I am not positioning myself as an expert. I am not a farmer and I don't play one on TV (although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night). I do have a B.S. degree in horticulture from a large state school respected in that field, with a specialty in horticultural food crop production (fruits and vegetables - not agronomic crop production like wheat, barley, soy...) I previously worked in this field professionally although I have since changed occupations. I am also an avid gardener with a large edible landscape. That being said - here goes: Quote:
Originally Posted by skid (Post 2079988) I bought one of the large variety packs of "cold climate" seeds from them (the other option was warm climate). I had good success with some of the seeds, and poor success with others. I am an experienced gardner and all seeds were treated equally to fine soil, regular water, organic fertilizer, etc. A lot of seeds had poor germination, some varieties of carrots were almost inedible (at least compared to my favourite Nantes style of carrots), and some plants grew poorly. On the other hand, the cabbages were excellent, the squashes were phenomenal (won 1st place in the fall fair), the beets were prolific, etc. I believe they get seeds from many sources, and they don'[t have the resources to field test them all, so some are really good, and others are poor to mediocre.
I lifted the above quote from a previous thread, but what the OP said is highly relevant and I thought that this topic deserves its own thread. From what is quoted above we should extrapolate 2 key points. 1) Seed selection is important. For those not aware of the hybrid phenomenon - I'll sum it up. Most of the Burpee, Ferry Morse, etc. big name seed companies produce hybrid seeds. Hybrids are good for one season of growth that is true to type, but the seeds from subsequent generations will not match the phenotype of the original hybrid parent (in other words, they won't be quite the same in succeeding generations). This means that hybrids are not good for perpetual growth cycles. This is where heirlooms come in. With that out of the way I can get to the more important point on seed selection. Buying a bulk "cold climate" or "warm climate" or any other pre-packaged seed assortment is not a good idea. The warm climate of the US Southwest is completely different than that of the US Southeast. In the Southeast we have much more rain and humidity in the summer that lead to fungal problems, root rots, etc that aren't in the drier climate of the Southwest. Even within these larger geographic areas, there are certain macroclimates (coastal, mountain, etc.) and microclimates can even differ from your front yard to your back yard. Same goes for other things like soils. The Southeast has old, iron rich red clay and the Northeast and Midwest have younger, richer glacial till soils. Within those different areas are sandy coastal soils, rocky mountain soils, etc... Your best bet is to observe your surroundings, get a good feel for light conditions, soil types, temperatures, water, etc. Find a good seed catalog that has accurate descriptions of the prevailing growing conditions for specific varieties that match your geographic and climactic conditions and go from there. Go local for best results. If you live in Michigan, don't buy from a producer in Georgia. For tree, bush, and vine fruits, buy from a local nursery. Local garden clubs are also good sources for good performers in your area. 2) Grow your seeds! Buying and storing seeds without growing them is like buying a gun and not shooting it until TSHTF. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but in either case you won't know until the time you are actually going to need it. If you are depending on your seed selections to provide you with food then you are taking on a fair amount of risk if you haven't tried them out. Fresh seeds are the most viable. Storing seeds for several years, especially in less than ideal conditions, will decrease germination rates. Some species are more tolerant of storage than others. Growing and saving new seeds is the only way to make sure that you have fresh stock. If you have had your seeds more than 2-3 years, I would think about refreshing (or at least planting some to determine your germination percentage). The other, and more important reason to actually grow them is to see what performs best in your area. As the OP said above some of the plant varieties were duds for him. I highly recommend that you get 2 or three different variteies of the same fruit/vegetable to try each season. Save the seeds and keep growing the ones that do best (highest production, best flavor, better disease resistance...). Rotate through until you can find consistent performers that you like and then stick with them. I have some constants and some I'll alternate every other year, but I always like trying something new. If the new one doesn't cut it then out it goes for something else. If nothing else, growing provides more practice. Growing plants isn't hard, but they are living things and if you mess something up, they could die. Practice makes perfect. Happy Growing.

gunDriller | 01-07-2010 07:37 AM
Re: Seeds & Seed Selection it's also important how you store your seeds. i had a bunch of food & tree seeds stored in a plastic container in the garage. a squirrel or rat got into it. that's the short version. ate f'ing everything. that's the long version. everything as in EVERYTHING. boxes of tools, old electronic stuff - everything got chewed on. i am very impressed. thing drank a pint of soap and kept going. it's like a Terminator Rat. right now my new & much smaller seed collection is stored indoors, but if it goes back outdoors, it goes in double or triple plastic bags inside an aluminum (or steel) box. after seeing what this little rodent has done, i wouldn't be at all surprised to see him attack aluminum diamond-plate (3/16" thick) - and win. if the seeds are stored where animals can get to them, it's important to mask the smell of the seeds or some animals will be extremely persistent trying to chew their way to the food.

branshew | 01-07-2010 07:47 PM
Re: Seeds & Seed Selection Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller (Post 2113005) it's also important how you store your seeds.
Excellent point. I prefer sealed in plastic inside a mason jar in the freezer.

skid | 01-07-2010 11:26 PM
Re: Seeds & Seed Selection Quote:
Originally Posted by branshew (Post 2112685) After digging through more old threads as I find my way through this site, I have found an area where I thought that I could make a valid contribution. I am not positioning myself as an expert. I am not a farmer and I don't play one on TV (although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night). I do have a B.S. degree in horticulture from a large state school respected in that field, with a specialty in horticultural food crop production (fruits and vegetables - not agronomic crop production like wheat, barley, soy...) I previously worked in this field professionally although I have since changed occupations. I am also an avid gardener with a large edible landscape. That being said - here goes: I lifted the above quote from a previous thread, but what the OP said is highly relevant and I thought that this topic deserves its own thread. From what is quoted above we should extrapolate 2 key points. 1) Seed selection is important. For those not aware of the hybrid phenomenon - I'll sum it up. Most of the Burpee, Ferry Morse, etc. big name seed companies produce hybrid seeds. Hybrids are good for one season of growth that is true to type, but the seeds from subsequent generations will not match the phenotype of the original hybrid parent (in other words, they won't be quite the same in succeeding generations). This means that hybrids are not good for perpetual growth cycles. This is where heirlooms come in. With that out of the way I can get to the more important point on seed selection. Buying a bulk "cold climate" or "warm climate" or any other pre-packaged seed assortment is not a good idea. The warm climate of the US Southwest is completely different than that of the US Southeast. In the Southeast we have much more rain and humidity in the summer that lead to fungal problems, root rots, etc that aren't in the drier climate of the Southwest. Even within these larger geographic areas, there are certain macroclimates (coastal, mountain, etc.) and microclimates can even differ from your front yard to your back yard. Same goes for other things like soils. The Southeast has old, iron rich red clay and the Northeast and Midwest have younger, richer glacial till soils. Within those different areas are sandy coastal soils, rocky mountain soils, etc... Your best bet is to observe your surroundings, get a good feel for light conditions, soil types, temperatures, water, etc. Find a good seed catalog that has accurate descriptions of the prevailing growing conditions for specific varieties that match your geographic and climactic conditions and go from there. Go local for best results. If you live in Michigan, don't buy from a producer in Georgia. For tree, bush, and vine fruits, buy from a local nursery. Local garden clubs are also good sources for good performers in your area. 2) Grow your seeds! Buying and storing seeds without growing them is like buying a gun and not shooting it until TSHTF. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but in either case you won't know until the time you are actually going to need it. If you are depending on your seed selections to provide you with food then you are taking on a fair amount of risk if you haven't tried them out. Fresh seeds are the most viable. Storing seeds for several years, especially in less than ideal conditions, will decrease germination rates. Some species are more tolerant of storage than others. Growing and saving new seeds is the only way to make sure that you have fresh stock. If you have had your seeds more than 2-3 years, I would think about refreshing (or at least planting some to determine your germination percentage). The other, and more important reason to actually grow them is to see what performs best in your area. As the OP said above some of the plant varieties were duds for him. I highly recommend that you get 2 or three different variteies of the same fruit/vegetable to try each season. Save the seeds and keep growing the ones that do best (highest production, best flavor, better disease resistance...). Rotate through until you can find consistent performers that you like and then stick with them. I have some constants and some I'll alternate every other year, but I always like trying something new. If the new one doesn't cut it then out it goes for something else. If nothing else, growing provides more practice. Growing plants isn't hard, but they are living things and if you mess something up, they could die. Practice makes perfect. Happy Growing.
I agree with alot of what you say, but in regards to seeds, good quality seeds will do well in all types of soils. In the case of Baker seeds (who I bought the seeds from in the quoted post), I suspect that they collect heirloom seeds from all over the place and they don't actually test them. While their seeds may be organic and heirloom and all that, they wouldn't taste good no matter where you grow them, or their vitality would be poor anywhere. When I buy seeds from Stokes, or a similar company that actually field tests seeds before they sell them, I know I am guaranteed to have good crops no matter what. In Steve Soloman's book "Gardening when it counts" (which I highly recommend), he explains what seed trials are all about, and why most companies don't perform that step due to cost. A highest quality company such as Stokes (which sells to professional growers) perform trials on every seed type they sell and guarantee the features in any quality soil conditions.

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