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shades2 | 09-13-2008 05:59 AM
Learning to ride... Well got my new bike, it's a Kawasaki GPX250R sports/tourer. Trying to ride the thing, it handles differently to the Honda CBF250 I have been training on. Most notably a larger turning circle and a tendency to dip a little into turns. Just practicing gear changes and going round in circles at low speed mainly. Unfortunately as I found out, motorcycles don't like to stay upright at low speed, particularly with a noobie rider on them. :D They are also incredibly heavy when you have to pick them back up. Dropped it twice on the first day, in a carpark with lots of gravel, first drop wasn't a big deal, second drop was a bit harder and pinned my knee under there... ow! (Just a scratch though). So no more riding in the gravel carpark... Learning to ride appears to be a painful, Darwinian experience. =) Appreciate any tips.

nub | 09-13-2008 06:38 AM
Re: Learning to ride... Make sure your shocks are set up for your weight....sounds like our front shocks might be a little soft. The mechanic at the dealer will help you. Remember to weight your outside peg in turns.....turning left you put more weight on right foot peg , visa versa for for right turn. You need to learn to use your front brakes ........the cable adjuster might be set to sensitive for you until you learn how to feather the brake. You can learn a lot in a gravel or dirt area (I'd rather you were on a stripped down street or dirt bike) about how to cross up your front tire in a turn when loosing traction in a turn, you can also test/improve your skills by locking up the rear tire and doing rear tire skids and let your rear tire fish tail from left to right, you'l learn in time to use the front brake also in the dirt/gravel but never to let it lock up, you'll go down if you do Most newbs accidents are caused from not knowing how to use front brake....in time the front brake will become your best friend when used in conjunction with rear. You might want to go to a dirt track or dirt riding area and have some of the guys show you how to cross em up and do front and rear break skids in the dirt this will help you immensely. Have your brakes adjusted for your weight by the mechanic if your not sure how to. Have fun and keep the rubber side down.

shades2 | 09-13-2008 07:20 AM
Re: Learning to ride... Thanks nub. Yeah I'm grabbing for that front brake (pushbike habit) without thinking of the foot brake, which pretty much locks the front up on the gravel and down I go. The bike will likely need some adjusting for me, hopefully I can find someone knowledgeable to help set it up.

Canadian-guerilla | 09-13-2008 09:57 AM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Most newbs accidents are caused from not knowing how to use front brake....in time the front brake will become your best friend when used in conjunction with rear.
+1 70% of your stopping should come from your front brake take it slow and steady, always be on the defensive in the city/traffic haven't been on a motorcycle in 20 years the GPX250R looks like a nice bike, big change from 250cc 25 years ago one of the biggest mistakes i've seen from noobs is getting a +1000cc bike to start on tip of the day: practice in a BIG shopping mall parking lot during store hours you practice stopping and starting, constant turning, while all the while, keeping a constant eye on safety because of the idiots in cars i've had my one big accident, missed a corner doing 80 mph if i ever get another motorcycle, 500cc max / two cylinders / one-piece rims / DISC BRAKES / FULL FACE HELMET my favorite bike was a Suzuki Titan 500 two stroke ( had to mix oil in with the gas ) http://www.tholt.com/images/t500a.jpg

nub | 09-13-2008 11:26 AM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 1287782) +1 70% of your stopping should come from your front brake take it slow and steady, always be on the defensive in the city/traffic haven't been on a motorcycle in 20 years the GPX250R looks like a nice bike, big change from 250cc 25 years ago one of the biggest mistakes i've seen from noobs is getting a +1000cc bike to start on tip of the day: practice in a BIG shopping mall parking lot during store hours you practice stopping and starting, constant turning, while all the while, keeping a constant eye on safety because of the idiots in cars i've had my one big accident, missed a corner doing 80 mph if i ever get another motorcycle, 500cc max / two cylinders / one-piece rims / DISC BRAKES / FULL FACE HELMET my favorite bike was a Suzuki Titan 500 two stroke ( had to mix oil in with the gas ) http://www.tholt.com/images/t500a.jpg
DAMMM DUDE! I can't believe you had a Titan, so did I , mine was green. I loved that bike it was leaps and bounds better than my previous ride, a 441 victor by BSA. I remember having to clean the points with the striker on a match book a couple of times, which was a snap, but other than that it was a darn nice reliable bike.Do you remember the Suzuki 750 water buffalo? now that thing was really a big pig, a great bike, but man was it heavy. I've had many bikes dirt and street bikes since then but I'll always have a fond spot for the TITAN :applause_

nub | 09-13-2008 11:29 AM
Re: Learning to ride... Wait a minute..... those garbage cans in the back ground are they new kind, you don't still have the TITAN do you?

Tallships | 09-13-2008 11:39 AM
Re: Learning to ride... My first bike was a honda 50cc when I was 9 years old. My first real bike was Kawasaki ninja zx600r. Now I have an old 79 suzuki 750.

Canadian-guerilla | 09-13-2008 11:59 AM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by nub (Post 1287848) Wait a minute..... those garbage cans in the back ground are they new kind, you don't still have the TITAN do you?
naw, this was just a picture i found on google images i got rid of my Titan 20 years ago sometimes i used to sit at a stoplight, rev the engine and watch the blue smoke come out yeah, i remember the water buffalo i've always wanted a Triumph from the 60's-70's ( leaks and all )

blacksheep | 09-13-2008 12:40 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Some already stated, 1]If possible get a cheap small used dirt bike to learn how a motorcycle handles on dirt, because it's small you can control it with out hurting your self or the bike. 2]Learn to use your front brake like a racer does, very agresivly, this were a dirt bike comes in, it WILL save your life. 3]Take riding/saftey course, this too could save your life. Been riding 30+ years, it's disturbing to see the increase in scooter/motorcycle traffic due to fuel casts, knowing many just walked into a dealership and bought bike. It's a common sight, a young guy on a sport bike slicing through traffic, tailgating at high way speeds, people on bikes/scooters, lacking control of the bike in turns, stops and intersections. Dont get me wrong, i love to ride my bikes, but the road is dangerous place for even the most skilled, alert rider. An accident thats a fender bender in a car, can be a near death experience on a bike. Ride safe.

Goldhedge | 09-13-2008 03:01 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Best advice I can give is take the MOST course (motorcycle operator safety training). They'll cover a lot of ground in one day. I learned all about gravity and the front brake on gravel once too. I now apply rear brake first and then the front. The front disc will give you the stopping power. The rear brake keeps the back end from exceeding the front position. It's like a jack-knifed trailer otherwise. Another interesting physics lesson is turning into an obstacle. Turning the wheel towards it will send you away from it due to the gyroscopic effect of the wheels. When negotiating a curve, 'leaning' (as opposed to turning) on the handlebar into the turn will cause you to turn in the direction you intend. A good exercise is to place 6? small cones 10 feet apart in a line. Then go at them and avoid hitting them by swerving left and right. This is only accomplished by looking straight ahead. If you look down, you won't make it. Then close the gap to 9 feet, 8 feet etc. Teaches you to look forward and ahead which is critical on a bike.

mkinla | 09-13-2008 03:33 PM
Re: Learning to ride... A couple of things. 1 - First and FOREMOST, what your brain wants you to do is usually WRONG 2 - When you're on the brakes the bikes geometry changes, and not for the better so always brake in a straight line. When I use to do track days etc I rarely used my back brake, and I could do 1.35's at Willow Springs without even blinking. Using the back brake, in MY opinion is for re-directing the back end for your exit. 3 - When you're in a turn keep your throttle steady, don't chop it, i.e. abruptly give or release the throttle. A steady throttle stabilizes the bike, and helps to push it through the turn. 4 - When you're on a road you've never been on drop it down a few notches, because you don't know if the next turn is a decreasing radius etc. 5 - Always turn in late, I mean ALWAYS. If you turn in too soon that bike will drift. If you turn in late you just give it more lean angle versus turning in too soon and drifting into a guard rail. 6 - When it doubt, GAS OUT. Meaning, if you're getting into trouble, apply some gas to stabilize the bike and ride it out. As a recommendation you might want to buy this book by Keith Code. I know it's for racing, but it explains everything and more in detail to what I've stated.. Good luck, ride safe, and for the love of GOD stay away from the white painted lines, they're slipperier than a Tijuana hooker. :D Amazon.com: Soft Science of Roadracing Motorcycles: The Technical Procedures and Workbook for Roadracing Motorcycles: Keith Code: Books Amazon

Satyr | 09-13-2008 03:55 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 1287782) +1 70% of your stopping should come from your front brake
-1 Actually, it's the rear brake that gives you 70% stopping power. (At least from what I've learned.) It would be wise to get in the habit of using both brakes at the same time. You'll have less chance of lockin' 'em up. Turns can be tricky. You should try to maintain consitent speed through a turn. If you have to brake in a turn, try to straighen the bike out first. You're less likely to dump it this way. Also, while in a turn, try not to look at the road directly in front of you. You should be looking ahead of the turn. You'll find that your bike often wants to go in the direction you are turning. Overall, the best thing you can do is take a rider's safety course. It's a good way to get down the basics and learn a few advanced tips as well. For sh!ts and grins, here's some pics of my bike. '05 V-Star 1100 Custom. I've added a few things to it. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...v-star_004.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...-star_005_.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...v-star_001.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...v-star_003.jpg

Canadian-guerilla | 09-13-2008 05:16 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyr (Post 1288134) Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 1287782) +1 70% of your stopping should come from your front brake
-1 Actually, it's the rear brake that gives you 70% stopping power. (At least from what I've learned.)
http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=029&Set= http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=174&Set=156-186 http://www.motorcyclesafety.state.mn...mid=81&scat=25 i guess everyone has their own riding style

mtnman | 09-13-2008 05:23 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Lots of good info here in this thread. But here's another YOU ARE INVISIBLE remember this NO ONE IN A CAR CAN SEE YOU. They WILL pull out in front of you, they WILL change lanes into you. It doesn�t matter where you�re at or how many headlights you have NO ONE IN A CAR CAN SEE YOU. Every car that is sitting waiting to pull out will try to hit you. Remember this it will save your life. This is a lesson that I have learned from 40 years on two wheels! Current ride, 2005 Triumph Rocket 3 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...1rightside.jpg

blacksheep | 09-13-2008 09:26 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Front vs Rear brakes debunked Do a distance stopping test at a fixed speed with each brake sepratly. You will find two things out. 1]Due to weight transfer rear to front, front wheel traction is enhanced, as rear wheel traction is decreased. 2]Stopping distances are dramaticly shorter using the front versus rear only when braking very hard. Look at any sport bike with 600cc plus displacment, note the large diameter twin disc brakes on the front of the bike, versus the reduced diameter,single rear disc. Think decades of engineering got it wrong?

shades2 | 09-13-2008 10:54 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksheep (Post 1288524) Front vs Rear brakes debunked Do a distance stopping test at a fixed speed with each brake sepratly. You will find two things out. 1]Due to weight transfer rear to front, front wheel traction is enhanced, as rear wheel traction is decreased. 2]Stopping distances are dramaticly shorter using the front versus rear only when braking very hard. Look at any sport bike with 600cc plus displacment, note the large diameter twin disc brakes on the front of the bike, versus the reduced diameter,single rear disc. Think decades of engineering got it wrong?
My instructor encourages me to think of the front brake as where the actual braking takes place, and the rear brake as a means of stabilising the bike during braking or a turn. This makes sense as the front brake will cause the bike's weight (COG) to shift forward to the front tire then the rear helps to level the bike somewhat by shifting the COG back a bit under heavy braking, and stopping the back end stepping out.

Libertarian_Guard | 09-14-2008 04:01 AM
Re: Learning to ride... I have a Ninja 650 with almost 7K miles and rarely use the rear brake. But if you do use the rear brake and it starts to lock-up, don't release it. If you do, you'll have a highside accident with the bike following after you on the ground. At slow speeds don't lean the bike in turns. Learn and use counter steering, but practice weaving at slow speeds. Leaning on turns is for high speeds. The faster you're going, the more you can lean the bike into a turn. Use CAUTION for any turns leading into where you cannot see throught the entire turn well in advance, because you'll need to upright the bike before braking, or lowside crash, which is better than a head on crash, but it's something you'd still rather avoid. Always look where you want the bike to go. If you look where the trouble is, you'll ride stright into it.

ajrocks | 09-14-2008 09:39 AM
Re: Learning to ride... all good info, maybe I can restate some in easier terms.. 1) when turning keep your upper body straight - or perpindicular to the road, only lean with your lower body, so when you turn right your move your upper body to your left when turning left move your upper body to the right Don't do wwhat you see racers do until you can handle the bike well, also they go really face when leaning to the same side in turns... 2) Turning on gravel wether fast or slow is always dangerous! 3) when applying brakes pull on the front just before the rear, like 1 second difference 4) When riding on the streets with cars etc. always ride to either center right or center left of the vehical you are following rear of car (---------------------------) you ride here (----) or here( ---) 5) always keep 3 seconds behind other vehicals when under 50 or even more when going faster to check look at something on the side of the road and when the vehical infront of you passes it start counting 1 mississipi...2 misssissipi etc 6) alot of people follow bikes too close...if that happens slow down then speed up and or then get out of their way 7) KEEP YOUR MOUTH CLOSED ON BACK ROADS!!!!! 8) As MTMAN said you are invisible!!! always remember that and watch cars at intersections and when riding next to a car keep out of their blind spot - ------- ----- - ride in this area - - - - - - - - ----------------- - - Not this one - - - -------------------------- 9) Always ride with High beams on durring the day!!! 10) When practising learning to shift, really you just need to know how to shift from a stop into the first gear...once you got that down, practice shifting down into lower gears, always release clutch slowely incase you shifted to far down....I still do that at times! Hope these help!

Tallships | 09-14-2008 11:31 AM
Re: Learning to ride... I always rode alone. I never understood the 10-15 bikes in a cluster thing. One complaint I have about most motorcyclists as a car driver is that when they are in these groups, they always seem to put staying with their group as #1 priority. Just last week, I almost hit two bikers at 2 different times because they cut in front of me inches from my front bumper. They didn't care if they got hit, they just wanted to keep up with their stupid friends who passed me earlier and took a life or death chance against oncoming traffic to do it. I would recommend riding alone. Its more fun you can do your own thing instead of being a follower.

Pat | 09-14-2008 04:04 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 1287782) my favorite bike was a Suzuki Titan 500 two stroke ( had to mix oil in with the gas ) http://www.tholt.com/images/t500a.jpg
Make mine a triple ... http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/Bike%20...KH500-76-1.jpg

Satyr | 09-14-2008 05:17 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 1289082) I always rode alone. I never understood the 10-15 bikes in a cluster thing. One complaint I have about most motorcyclists as a car driver is that when they are in these groups, they always seem to put staying with their group as #1 priority. Just last week, I almost hit two bikers at 2 different times because they cut in front of me inches from my front bumper. They didn't care if they got hit, they just wanted to keep up with their stupid friends who passed me earlier and took a life or death chance against oncoming traffic to do it. I would recommend riding alone. Its more fun you can do your own thing instead of being a follower.
I guess it takes a different mentality. For me, riding with a goup is a blast. You get the chance to learn new back roads you never knew existed. The only thing I don't like is riding with a group in an unfamiliar area and getting split up. It's the biggest pain in the ass. Most people in a steel cage are assholes when it comes to respecting groups of bikers. If you know that a group of bikers are split up, instead of being a prick, you could give them an opportunity to regroup. I'm not saying you were being a prick in this situation. I'm just generalizing here. But, every coin has two sides. Not all groups of bikers are idiots like the ones you encountered. Communication is key. Good groups know how to communicate with each other while on the road. The front man shouldn't be making quick, stupid moves. He should know well in advance the move he wants the pack to make. If he wants everyone to switch lanes, he should give a hand signal. Everyone else should do the same. When the last rider sees this, he should wait for the opportunity, make the lane change, and let everyone else in. Only an experienced biker should ride at the back of a group. And a novice rider should not be in a group, period.

shades2 | 09-14-2008 07:39 PM
Re: Learning to ride... All good advice. Thanks everyone, much appreciated. I'll keep you informed of my progress. :wink:

TLM | 09-14-2008 09:10 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by shades2 (Post 1289782) All good advice. Thanks everyone, much appreciated. I'll keep you informed of my progress. :wink:
Lots of disinfo.. Please, never use rear brake in a turn... Use the front brake if you want to stop... Some racers don't even have rear brakes. If you want to be a stunt man and slide under a Semi... rear brake works great for that. Most people don't know how to do low speed turns. You can turn sharper if you stand on the pegs so your butt is either off the seat or enough pressure is taken off so you can slide easily, allow the bike to lean in the direction of the turn but you stay on top of it, and you can also countersteer a little bit... turning the front wheel in the opposite direction ... feels counterintuitive at first but practice in a parking lot... but one without "GRAVEL"!!! If you live anywhere near Upstate SC... I'd be happy to give you free lessons. God's Peace EDIT : Getting your butt off the seat will work great on your ninja 250 but if you drive a cruiser where your feet are out in front of you ( like sitting on the jon) that technique isn't possible. TLM

Libertarian_Guard | 09-14-2008 09:24 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Shades Beware of EVER riding on grass. It will feel like ice, and you'll likely go down. Motorcycles are a constant learning process, ride within your limits. And remember, speed kills.

Satyr | 09-14-2008 10:55 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by TLM (Post 1290005) If you live anywhere near Upstate SC... I'd be happy to give you free lessons.
Ummm, he used the term 'carpark'. I'd assume he's somewhere in the UK :wink: God's Peace Quote:
Originally Posted by TLM (Post 1290005) EDIT : Getting your butt off the seat will work great on your ninja 250 but if you drive a cruiser where your feet are out in front of you ( like sitting on the jon) that technique isn't possible. TLM
Very true. But, you can still easily shift your weight to the outside for a sharper turn in low speed. Let's say you want to make a right u-turn. You would want to shift your weight to the left side of your bike. On a cruiser, you would do this by essentially shifting your ass so that your left cheek is hanging off the seat. This allows you to lean the bike a bit and not dump it. Of course, you still have to keep your eyes up and toward your target direction.

woodman | 09-15-2008 12:17 AM
Re: Learning to ride... Beware of wet pavement, it's slick as hell, especially just after it starts to rain and especially in the south. Road rash sucks. Don't drink much and ride because drunk people take stupid risks. Use larger vehicles to run interference for you at intersections. Be acutely aware. As mtnman said, you are invisible on a bike. Enjoy!

shades2 | 09-15-2008 03:12 AM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyr (Post 1290257) Ummm, he used the term 'carpark'. I'd assume he's somewhere in the UK :wink: God's Peace Very true. But, you can still easily shift your weight to the outside for a sharper turn in low speed. Let's say you want to make a right u-turn. You would want to shift your weight to the left side of your bike. On a cruiser, you would do this by essentially shifting your ass so that your left cheek is hanging off the seat. This allows you to lean the bike a bit and not dump it. Of course, you still have to keep your eyes up and toward your target direction.
In OZtralia actually. =) Interesting how many different ideas there are, I guess a lot depends on your own bike, setup and riding style. Safety is my absolute priority, I have no interest in becoming a statistic for a cheap (albiet fun) means of transport if I can avoid it.

shades2 | 09-15-2008 07:45 AM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 1288208) STAY THE F OFF GRAVEL.
Good tip...

Libertarian_Guard | 09-15-2008 08:46 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by shades2 (Post 1290577) In OZtralia actually. =) Interesting how many different ideas there are, I guess a lot depends on your own bike, setup and riding style. Safety is my absolute priority, I have no interest in becoming a statistic for a cheap (albiet fun) means of transport if I can avoid it.
The stats for motorcycles are bad. Bikes comprise about 2% of registered vehicles and their riders usually log far more miles driving their cars. Yet bike riders make up 10% of all vehicle fatalities.

Libertarian_Guard | 09-15-2008 08:51 PM
Re: Learning to ride... Quote:
Originally Posted by woodman (Post 1290400) Beware of wet pavement, it's slick as hell, especially just after it starts to rain and especially in the south. Road rash sucks. Don't drink much and ride because drunk people take stupid risks. Use larger vehicles to run interference for you at intersections. Be acutely aware. As mtnman said, you are invisible on a bike. Enjoy!
Be extra aware of cold tires on wet pavement. If your bike is on the road when the rain starts you'll be ok if you're extra smooth with shifting and breaking.

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poor boy | 09-15-2008 09:04 PM
Re: Learning to ride... How I roll these days (but mine is black).:applause_

poor boy | 09-15-2008 09:06 PM
Re: Learning to ride... This is how I roll http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...al-Patrole.jpg

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