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- - Using Ar/CO2 gas for 5 gallon buckets (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=349192)

Ag_man | 02-13-2009 07:32 PM
Using Ar/CO2 gas for 5 gallon buckets What is the difference between using inert gas (N2, CO2, Ar/CO2 mix) versus O2 absorbers in packaging 5 gallon buckets of foodstuffs? I know people use dry ice in their buckets instead of O2 absorbers. I have access at work to compressed Ar/CO2 gas mix that we use in our MIG welders and thought it might be a cheaper alternative than O2 absorbers.

mayhem | 02-13-2009 07:48 PM
Re: Using Ar/CO2 gas for 5 gallon buckets Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 1568905) What is the difference between using inert gas (N2, CO2, Ar/CO2 mix) versus O2 absorbers in packaging 5 gallon buckets of foodstuffs? I know people use dry ice in their buckets instead of O2 absorbers. I have access at work to compressed Ar/CO2 gas mix that we use in our MIG welders and thought it might be a cheaper alternative than O2 absorbers.
Well I looked at it like this. All the big time packers use oxy-sorbers. I would hate to need (insert hungry family here) my preps 2-10 years from now and find out that I screwed up and went cheap on the sealing. I have no idea what the argon/CO2 mix would do. Maybe someone else will know.

CrufflerJJ | 02-13-2009 08:25 PM
Re: Using Ar/CO2 gas for 5 gallon buckets Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 1568905) What is the difference between using inert gas (N2, CO2, Ar/CO2 mix) versus O2 absorbers in packaging 5 gallon buckets of foodstuffs? I know people use dry ice in their buckets instead of O2 absorbers. I have access at work to compressed Ar/CO2 gas mix that we use in our MIG welders and thought it might be a cheaper alternative than O2 absorbers.
I think (but DO NOT know for a fact) that the CO2 gas may be toxic to little critters. Some websites talk about using dry ice, followed by using oxy absorbers. Others test with just oxy absorbers. Note that some oxy absorber makers say that you should NOT use their products in a high CO2 environment. I guess the fear is that they may somehow react with the CO2, and not bind to any residual O2. Ultimately, CO2 seems to be aimed at killing off critters in the grain. O2 is what will cause oils to go rancid. Even in the presence of high CO2/N2/Ar, if you have O2 remaining in the container, it will react with your foods (not good). I wonder how good a "flush" you could really get in a pail if you use your Ar/CO2 gas mix. Please don't screw your preps by trying to go too cheap. Oxy absorbers are available dirt cheap through ldscatalog.com for ~$14 per 100 absorbers (300 ml capacity, use 3-4 per 5 gal pail, 1 per #10 can or gallon mylar pouch). ZERO shipping costs.

RJB | 02-13-2009 08:34 PM
Re: Using Ar/CO2 gas for 5 gallon buckets Dry ice (CO2) can be used for long term storage. (Ask for dry ice at the meat shop in the grocery store) 1. You drop the dry ice in the bottom of a bucket or jar. 2. Place dried food (grains, fruit etc.) on top of the dry ice. Leave an inch space between the food and the top of the container. 3. Rest the lid on top of the container BUT DO NOT SEAL IT YET. 4. Wait a day of so until the container is no longer cold. Seal the container. What happens: As the dry ice melts it expands. Since CO2 is heavier than air it forces oxygen and water vapor over the top and out. The CO2 will "pool" in the container, keeping water vapor out. It also kills bugs.

Ag_man | 02-13-2009 08:38 PM
Re: Using Ar/CO2 gas for 5 gallon buckets Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1569007) I think (but DO NOT know for a fact) that the CO2 gas may be toxic to little critters. Some websites talk about using dry ice, followed by using oxy absorbers. Others test with just oxy absorbers. Note that some oxy absorber makers say that you should NOT use their products in a high CO2 environment. I guess the fear is that they may somehow react with the CO2, and not bind to any residual O2. Ultimately, CO2 seems to be aimed at killing off critters in the grain. O2 s what will cause oils to go rancid. Even in the presence of high CO2/N2/Ar, if you have O2 remaining in the container, it will react with your foods (not good). I wonder how good a "flush" you could really get in a pail if you use your Ar/CO2 gas mix. Please don't screw your preps by trying to go too cheap. Oxy absorbers are available dirt cheap through ldscatalog.com for ~$14 per 100 absorbers (300 ml capacity, use 3-4 per 5 gal pail, 1 per #10 can or gallon mylar pouch). ZERO shipping costs.
I've always used O2 absorbers in the past. Thanks for the LDS link, I've paid way more than that for O2 absorbers! At that price, it wouldn't make sense trying alternatives on the cheap.

CrufflerJJ | 02-13-2009 08:51 PM
Re: Using Ar/CO2 gas for 5 gallon buckets Just to clarify the source for O2 absorbers: www.ldscatalog.com click on Welfare Services - bottom left of the screen click on Home Storage - middle of the screen click on whatever you want to buy - cans of wheat, oats, pinto beans, rice, #10 can sized mylar bags (7 mils thick - most excellent!), or oxy absorbers (only $12 per 100, not $14 like I originally thought).

hypervel | 02-15-2009 04:40 PM
Re: Using Ar/CO2 gas for 5 gallon buckets I use CO2 and a racking tube. Pour grain in the bkt around the tube. Full when lighter snuffs at rim. Been OK so far.

Metalophile | 02-15-2009 06:55 PM
Re: Using Ar/CO2 gas for 5 gallon buckets Dry ice doesn't melt at atmospheric pressure. It sublimes - changes to gas without going through a liquid phase (and greatly expands). As it does this it physically displaces the oxygen/nitrogen in your container. Since all critters need 02 to survive, they die. If your seal is air tight it should work fine. Because dry ice is so cold you do have to beware moisture condensing on your dry ice, and that accumulated moisture wetting some of your product. You may want to wrap the dry ice in paper towels or something before placing at the bottom of your pail.

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