Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)
- Survival Prep (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=141)
- - Kiss the utility company goodbye (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=381707)

MNeagle | 06-09-2009 12:24 AM
Kiss the utility company goodbye Kiss the utility company goodbye The renewable-energy buzz is on. Here's how some local homeowners are using new solar technology to kiss the utility company goodbye - with state and federal help. http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle...Yyc:aUycaEacyU :yippee:

LowDow | 06-09-2009 04:01 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Born spent $36,400 (after state and federal incentives), to get enough energy to power his house with extra to sell to the utility.
AND he gets $200 back each year from the utility co! :thumpdown:thumb.aspx:

killer2021 | 06-09-2009 05:34 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1760935) And that is a problem because....?
You still have to have a utility company. That homeowner sells solar energy to the utility for credits and then uses those credits when the sun don't shine hence still dependant on a utility.

Tn...Andy | 06-09-2009 05:46 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by LowDow (Post 1760926) AND he gets $200 back each year from the utility co! :thumpdown:thumb.aspx:
I assume you are unimpressed by the 200 buckos...... What the article missed was the amount he AVOIDED buying....the whole article is woefully short on detail, but what ever his previous bill was + 200 bucks is now the amount he gets as a return.....penny saved is a penny earned..... Actually, considering income taxes, a penny saved is quite a bit more than a penny earned in Ben Franklin's time. And the independence is simply priceless....... http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...2_p125114.jpeg

nub | 06-09-2009 05:47 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye There is no free or cheap energy,to be completely self reliant like myself one needs the support of a large battery bank which means increased labor (installation & maintenance) adding to the overall cost. Not to mention replacing said battery bank every 9-10 years.

Tn...Andy | 06-09-2009 05:53 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by killer2021 (Post 1760953) You still have to have a utility company. That homeowner sells solar energy to the utility for credits and then uses those credits when the sun don't shine hence still dependant on a utility.
Depends on the type of system. You can't assume much, given the lack of detail in the article.

nub | 06-09-2009 06:08 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1760965) Depends on the type of system. You can't assume much, given the lack of detail in the article.
If he's receiving credits or getting a kickback then he is on the grid....at least here in CA., here there are no rebate programs that I'm aware of unless your connected to the grid. In my case , they can keep their credits or rebates ....I don't want to be beholdin to nobody, just want them revenewers and bureaucrats to stay away from me:biggrin:

obilly | 06-09-2009 06:28 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1760960) I assume you are unimpressed by the 200 buckos...... What the article missed was the amount he AVOIDED buying....the whole article is woefully short on detail, but what ever his previous bill was + 200 bucks is now the amount he gets as a return.....penny saved is a penny earned..... Actually, considering income taxes, a penny saved is quite a bit more than a penny earned in Ben Franklin's time. And the independence is simply priceless....... http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...2_p125114.jpeg
i,m going to try to understand this ,,,,,$36000 investment,,,,my ele bill $2000 a year,,,, return from investment $200 a year,,,,it appear in this ex. my ele bill is only $1800 year, $200 savings a year . 180 years to get my investment back. remember ele meters work coming and going. ???? someone pls help me see this correctly??? did he have an ele bill every month? or did he have no ele bill and get $200 a year ? what if any is his ele bill now? can you buy a solar system that will provide 48,000 kilowatts a year for $36,000 wow?

nub | 06-09-2009 06:38 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by obilly (Post 1760978) i,m going to try to understand this ,,,,,$36000 investment,,,,my ele bill $2000 a year,,,, return from investment $200 a year,,,,it appear in this ex. my ele bill is only $1800 year, $200 savings a year . 180 years to get my investment back. remember ele meters work coming and going. ???? someone pls help me see this correctly??? did he have an ele bill every month? or did he have no ele bill and get $200 a year ? what if any is his ele bill now? can you buy a solar system that will provide 48,000 kilowatts a year for $36,000 wow?
On a $36,000.00 system if your currently paying $2000.00 a year your payback is 18 years.The $200.00 a year payment for power sold to the utility would help to pay off the investment that much sooner....in 20yrs. that's 4 grand ....nothing to sneeze at

Tn...Andy | 06-09-2009 07:07 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by obilly (Post 1760978) i,m going to try to understand this ,,,,,$36000 investment,,,,my ele bill $2000 a year,,,, return from investment $200 a year,,,,it appear in this ex. my ele bill is only $1800 year, $200 savings a year . 180 years to get my investment back. remember ele meters work coming and going. ???? someone pls help me see this correctly??? did he have an ele bill every month? or did he have no ele bill and get $200 a year ? what if any is his ele bill now?
As I said, the article is woefully short on details, but I ASSUME he has no electric bill PLUS a 200 buck surplus So, in your case, it would be 2000 + 200, or 2200/yr 36k divided by 2200/yr is 16.4 years to pay back.....assuming electric rates do not rise over that 16 years, which is unlikely. Quote:
Originally Posted by obilly (Post 1760978) can you buy a solar system that will provide 48,000 kilowatts a year for $36,000 wow?
Do you use 48,000 kilowatt/hours ( I assume you meant hours ) now ? That's 4,000kw/hrs a month.....almost 5 times the national average for a home. If so, and you get that for 2000bucks/yr, you have one hell of a cheap electric rate.....little over 4 cents per hour.....which I doubt. We have one of the cheapest rates in the country (TVA) at 9 cents.

obilly | 06-09-2009 07:24 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by nub (Post 1760982) On a $36,000.00 system if your currently paying $2000.00 a year your payback is 18 years.The $200.00 a year payment for power sold to the utility would help to pay off the investment that much sooner....in 20yrs. that's 4 grand ....nothing to sneeze at
i am sure thats exactly what the salesman said . but when the truth is told he spent 36k saved 200 a year and still has a $1800 ele bill every year. thats back to 36 years to break even. a system that would provide me 2000kw's a month would cost more than my house. and only if i converted everything to 12vdc with a battery plant large enough to cover me when the sun don't shine, the system in the picture at best might be 200-500w 12vdc then has to be converted to 120ac,,, well after all that you could run 2 light bulbs when the sun is out with no battery plant. we need more info keep it going,,,,, hey i am just guessing don't consider my answer 100% accurate. but i want to know what it would cost for a system that could provide my entire ele needs 24hrs a day. ac, tv, pc, washer, dryer, hot water, oven, mw.....etc. smell like snake oil to me.

obilly | 06-09-2009 08:18 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1760993) As I said, the article is woefully short on details, but I ASSUME he has no electric bill PLUS a 200 buck surplus So, in your case, it would be 2000 + 200, or 2200/yr 36k divided by 2200/yr is 16.4 years to pay back.....assuming electric rates do not rise over that 16 years, which is unlikely. Do you use 48,000 kilowatt/hours ( I assume you meant hours ) now ? That's 4,000kw/hrs a month.....almost 5 times the national average for a home. If so, and you get that for 2000bucks/yr, you have one hell of a cheap electric rate.....little over 4 cents per hour.....which I doubt. We have one of the cheapest rates in the country (TVA) at 9 cents.
i'm sorry the most i do is 1800kw(hrs) a month 21000kws a year at .12 per kwh...my math is as bad as solar ele when the sun don't shine,,, my ex. was just that, and not accurate. that why i was asking,,,,if someone can engineer furnish and install me a solar ele system to provide my above needs . thats capable of running the central air , hot water and oven at midnight, and i have no ele bill, and am able to sell the excess at $200 a year i will buy it right now. remember he sez cost 36k return 200,,,again how much was his ele bill every month,,,its was not nothing,,, unless all he has is 2 light bulbs. if it turns out that all he did was save 200 a year, i can get 1% on 36k, that is i think about $360 year and still have my 36k

obilly | 06-09-2009 08:26 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcard (Post 1761000) Where did the $36000 price tag come from?
post number 2

Fabonz | 06-09-2009 09:20 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by nub (Post 1760982) On a $36,000.00 system if your currently paying $2000.00 a year your payback is 18 years.The $200.00 a year payment for power sold to the utility would help to pay off the investment that much sooner....in 20yrs. that's 4 grand ....nothing to sneeze at
That doesn't include the "cost of money" which you still have to figure into the calculations even if he didn't borrow it. So that would make the payback over 20 years which is not good for a capital investment like this. Think of it this way: at 3.6% you can double your money in 20 years. So, whould it be smarter to buy gold (or Treasury bonds, or bank CD's if you trust that sort of thing) which are VERY liquid, or put your money into "renewable energy" with the same payback period? I guess you would have to have some "other" reasons for doing the green thing, like "saving the planet", because as an investment it's not a great deal.

nub | 06-09-2009 10:45 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabonz (Post 1761099) That doesn't include the "cost of money" which you still have to figure into the calculations even if he didn't borrow it. So that would make the payback over 20 years which is not good for a capital investment like this. Think of it this way: at 3.6% you can double your money in 20 years. So, whould it be smarter to buy gold (or Treasury bonds, or bank CD's if you trust that sort of thing) which are VERY liquid, or put your money into "renewable energy" with the same payback period? I guess you would have to have some "other" reasons for doing the green thing, like "saving the planet", because as an investment it's not a great deal.
My case is different than the guy in this article....there is NO grid here where I live and solar is a better/cheaper solution to my power needs.... I still have generators all around this place though..... 1 for the house , one for the shop, one up at the barn,one down in the field where my well is, one in a truck with a compressor and some power tools and for heavier jobs I have a trailer mounted 10.5 KW MQ welder/generator. And a good chunk of the $36,000.00 could have been saved by installing it himself and who knows how much they marked up the price of the panels/ Fabonz, I know where your coming from and wouldn't argue with you, I have 25 years experience and can't see any major savings in installing ones own solar system if your able to buy power off the grid. And in most cases going solar means going without, at the very least you learn to rethink your power consumption habits and re-tool your appliances......and that's a good thing, people are way to wasteful. Going solar is something these people want to do and can certainly be a good learning experience for the whole family .....you know , raise consciousness and all . But the main point should be is HOW MUCH WILL A KILOWATT COST IN THE FUTURE ?......if the price goes way up that is where the savings COULD amplify. And your counter point is....HOW MUCH WILL AN OZ OF AU/AG BE IN THE FUTURE.......and that is an excellent argument !

pre-64' | 06-09-2009 11:08 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Parents live off-grid in ideal sunny California mountains. (Retired electrical engineer tech. from power utility company) They must use diesel generator for big users like the washing machine. They have 3 small propane refridge units that are barely enough. Woefully inadequate for ice. They must buy ice frequently. Even with normal usage of lower use appliances they need the generators. To say solar is the end all solution to energy needs is delusional in its present state. It does help, especially good for lighting needs and will power your TV okay. Beyond that it just doesn't cut the mustard.

Fabonz | 06-09-2009 11:57 AM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by nub (Post 1761202) My case is different than the guy in this article....there is NO grid here where I live and solar is a better/cheaper solution to my power needs.... I still have generators all around this place though..... 1 for the house , one for the shop, one up at the barn,one down in the field where my well is, one in a truck with a compressor and some power tools and for heavier jobs I have a trailer mounted 10.5 KW MQ welder/generator. And a good chunk of the $36,000.00 could have been saved by installing it himself and who knows how much they marked up the price of the panels/ Fabonz, I know where your coming from and wouldn't argue with you, I have 25 years experience and can't see any major savings in installing ones own solar system if your able to buy power off the grid. And in most cases going solar means going without, at the very least you learn to rethink your power consumption habits and re-tool your appliances......and that's a good thing, people are way to wasteful. Going solar is something these people want to do and can certainly be a good learning experience for the whole family .....you know , raise consciousness and all . But the main point should be is HOW MUCH WILL A KILOWATT COST IN THE FUTURE ?......if the price goes way up that is where the savings COULD amplify. And your counter point is....HOW MUCH WILL AN OZ OF AU/AG BE IN THE FUTURE.......and that is an excellent argument !
Oh, I totally agree there are a lot of benefits to having a system like this, not least of which is the ability to "cut the cord" and go off grid at some point (either by choice or necessity) I like the idea of having being self sufficient on things like food and energy. My point was that you can't really look at this as you do other "investments" that you are looking for a good return. I was also thinking I would like an alternate way to heat my house (pellets, etc) so when the Natural gas price SPIKES, I can use my other source. Then switch back to gas when the price comes down. Managing your costs that way can make the ROI much higher. It also gives you a "plan B" incase the gas ever stops coming outta the pipe....

rezop | 06-09-2009 12:05 PM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye I wish I could justify the cost of solar. My electric bill is currently ~$18/mo though. Pretty hard to pony up the money to go solar...

Horn | 06-09-2009 12:58 PM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by rezop (Post 1761323) I wish I could justify the cost of solar. My electric bill is currently ~$18/mo though. Pretty hard to pony up the money to go solar...
Give it 2 years, you'll be at $ 75, or 25 zulacs / month. I wholly expect taxes on per usage consumption taxes, carbon footprint taxes and such. Now is probably the best time to act on solar, for if the solar panel company can do it for 1/2 the price in the future remains to be seen. Most likely twice the price.

Rebel Yarr | 06-09-2009 01:05 PM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye I am starting to look into this as I am thinking to byuy an off grid piece of property. It seems that solar power - is way way out of price - at least from an ROI perspective. Wind power - if you can attain a constant wind - seems to be more viable. about 3k - 5k for a decent setup that would power a cabin for 1-2 people being conservative with their energy usage. Things like fridges and washers need to be considered as mentioned above. I'd mostly be happy being able to run lighting a laptop and other small appliances - an efficient fridge should also not be much of a problem.

Jimfrancisco | 06-09-2009 07:56 PM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye 7 years ago, solar companies were saying that within 7 years they could compete with the grid. & 7 years later, they are still saying it'll be 7 years before they can compete with the grid. Great if you have the money to live off-grid, and don't want a generator - not so great otherwise.

silverblood | 06-09-2009 08:01 PM
Re: Kiss the utility company goodbye Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1760960) penny saved is a penny earned..... Actually, considering income taxes, a penny saved is quite a bit more than a penny earned in Ben Franklin's time.
Taking the loss of purchasing power of that penny since Ben Franklin's time into account takes some of the shine off the savings. :wink:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:50 AM. |

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright = None use it and Link to GIM