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Ag_man | 06-06-2009 09:09 PM
Duplicating broken parts, etc I've revived a section of my companies business that I've passed up on in the last 10 years or so, in response to things being slow. This is taking in work from people that have a broken casting for various machines, etc and casting them a new part from the old one. Typically, when people have asked me to do this, I'd tell them, "Well, in order for us to do this, you'll need to have a pattern built". In 95 out of 100 cases, the guy just needs 1 piece made and the costs of building a pattern make the project unaffordable for most people, as this could run from several hundred to several thousand dollars. In the last month, I've taken in 3 jobs from people who have an obsolete machine, manufacturer long out of business, no parts available and produced replacement parts for them. In all cases, the subject part was the sorriest looking casting I've seen; repeatedly welded, etc. I take these parts, lag them up for machine stock where needed, grind the welds off, add material for draft, build parting blocks, etc and make a mold and pour them a new casting. The reason I got out of doing this, is that it is very labor/skill intensive, both in the preparation of the part to use as a pattern and hand finishing the mold. The cost is not cheap, anywhere from $650 to $1400 each for ductile iron castings between 30 and 85 lbs. But, I have the time and the customers have the money. It's been working out well for both parties and I am going to promote this as part of our value-added services.

MNeagle | 06-06-2009 09:20 PM
Re: Duplicating broken parts, etc My guess is these are parts for machines that do not have 'planned obsolescence'; and will continue to perform for years. Kudos for you to cultivate this niche field!

Ag_man | 06-06-2009 09:25 PM
Re: Duplicating broken parts, etc Quote:
Originally Posted by MNeagle (Post 1757847) My guess is these are parts for machines that do not have 'planned obsolescence'; and will continue to perform for years. Kudos for you to cultivate this niche field!
Thanks! On the first job we took, the casting being duplicated had "1916" as the date of manufacture! I really think there is money to be made here.

ruprick | 06-06-2009 09:25 PM
Re: Duplicating broken parts, etc This is both awesome and sad at the same time. Sorry to hear you guys are that slow on business....you know me.....I'm in the Automotive Die Casting business...and we are nearly dead...just had our 4th wave of terminations last week.....we are now, non functional in several areas of the business....the next move is lights out.... On the other hand....i like to see this type of casting activity in the USA....the last time I saw anything going on like that was in Indonesia in the early 1990's (we built a GM plant in Jakarta and had to source business to local suppliers).....there was a large textile company ....they actually had their own foundry on site! They would make nearly every replacement casting from scratch.....iron, brass, aluminum...whatever....and then fully machine it....it was amazing to see. they had both modern and turn of the century looms and lots of associated dye/wash/dry/process equipment....big equipment....they kept it all running right on site. Good luck - do whatever you have to to keep the lights on and your skilled men in a job! Yes, there are a lot of machines that are very old but very effective.....at the last caster I worked for....they had a tooling shop in-house with a massive Blanchard Grinder the size of a house to surface the plattens on 2500 Ton casting presses....the grinder was made in 1940. You can't buy a machine like that today...and if you could it would cost over $5MM dollars.

Ag_man | 06-06-2009 09:52 PM
Re: Duplicating broken parts, etc Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 1757856) This is both awesome and sad at the same time. Sorry to hear you guys are that slow on business....you know me.....I'm in the Automotive Die Casting business...and we are nearly dead...just had our 4th wave of terminations last week.....we are now, non functional in several areas of the business....the next move is lights out....
Damn brother, I am really sorry to hear that. I knew things were bad. When the Tier I and II suppliers go down, it will make the job losses from the Big 3 seem insignificant. What's the ratio on suppliers job numbers versus the Big 3, 4:1 or better? I wish I could encourage you and your coworkers, but words fail me. Quote:
On the other hand....i like to see this type of casting activity in the USA....the last time I saw anything going on like that was in Indonesia in the early 1990's (we built a GM plant in Jakarta and had to source business to local suppliers).....there was a large textile company ....they actually had their own foundry on site! They would make nearly every replacement casting from scratch.....iron, brass, aluminum...whatever....and then fully machine it....it was amazing to see. they had both modern and turn of the century looms and lots of associated dye/wash/dry/process equipment....big equipment....they kept it all running right on site.
Smart, very smart. A small cadre of skilled foundrymen and machinists can keep a place like that running and save millions in not keeping a huge spare parts inventory (if spares existed!). Quote:
Yes, there are a lot of machines that are very old but very effective.....at the last caster I worked for....they had a tooling shop in-house with a massive Blanchard Grinder the size of a house to surface the plattens on 2500 Ton casting presses....the grinder was made in 1940. You can't buy a machine like that today...and if you could it would cost over $5MM dollars.
Rockford, IL (and the surrounding area) was once a machine tool center of the universe. Names like Greenly, DeVlieg, Bullard, Mattson, Ingersoll, Bourne & Koch, etc. Square miles of abandoned factory buildings. Some still have spare part/rebuild operations in Rockford. If I had a dollar for every 1 pc quote I've done for a spare machine tool part...What is somewhat surprising is that even though I've quoted foundry tooling that runs into several thousand dollars for 1 part, they sometimes go ahead and buy the pattern and casting. I can imagine the hugely expensive (if bought new today) machine tools that would be scrap, without that 1 spare part.

Weatherman | 06-07-2009 07:01 AM
Re: Duplicating broken parts, etc Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 1757832) I've revived a section of my companies business that I've passed up on in the last 10 years or so, in response to things being slow. This is taking in work from people that have a broken casting for various machines, etc and casting them a new part from the old one. Typically, when people have asked me to do this, I'd tell them, "Well, in order for us to do this, you'll need to have a pattern built". In 95 out of 100 cases, the guy just needs 1 piece made and the costs of building a pattern make the project unaffordable for most people, as this could run from several hundred to several thousand dollars.
Since the pattern is so expensive to produce, maybe you could find ways to reuse it. You could try advertising each pattern in the appropriate trade journals (or maybe even on eBay or craiglist) to see if someone else might want to buy another copy. You could also offer to share the wealth with your original customer by offering him a 10%(?) rebate if you find another client for the same part, and maybe 20% if your customer finds another buyer. What is it that they say? A pattern is a terrible thing to waste. :biggrin:

Mantokir | 06-07-2009 08:59 PM
Re: Duplicating broken parts, etc Dunno how much this would help ya as far as time and energy goes, but it was something I thought of when you were describing the whole grinding, making a mold... etc. http://www.dimensionprinting.com/ Get a laser scanner and it might cut down on time http://www.david-laserscanner.com/ http://www.directdimensions.com/prod_laserscanners.htm You'd scan your physical object into the computer, make any changes then use the printer to make a 3D object you could then use to make a mold.

Ag_man | 06-07-2009 09:19 PM
Re: Duplicating broken parts, etc Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherman (Post 1758327) Since the pattern is so expensive to produce, maybe you could find ways to reuse it. You could try advertising each pattern in the appropriate trade journals (or maybe even on eBay or craiglist) to see if someone else might want to buy another copy. You could also offer to share the wealth with your original customer by offering him a 10%(?) rebate if you find another client for the same part, and maybe 20% if your customer finds another buyer. What is it that they say? A pattern is a terrible thing to waste. :biggrin:
Typically, there are legal issues involved in "pattern sharing", as the patterns are the property of the customer. But, the "share the wealth" concept might be viable in non-proprietary designs, such as gear blanks, sheaves, clevises, etc. Good idea! "A pattern is a terrible thing to waste." :biggrin:, I'll have to share that with my patternmaker!

Merlin | 06-07-2009 09:21 PM
Re: Duplicating broken parts, etc Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 1757887) Rockford, IL (and the surrounding area) was once a machine tool center of the universe. Names like Greenly, DeVlieg, Bullard, Mattson, Ingersoll, Bourne & Koch, etc. Square miles of abandoned factory buildings.
My brother, who lives in Rockford, used to earn a good living as a machinist. He was recently laid off from his stock-boy job at Walmart. The decent into economic hell continues.

Ag_man | 06-07-2009 10:52 PM
Re: Duplicating broken parts, etc Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantokir (Post 1759053) Dunno how much this would help ya as far as time and energy goes, but it was something I thought of when you were describing the whole grinding, making a mold... etc. http://www.dimensionprinting.com/ Get a laser scanner and it might cut down on time http://www.david-laserscanner.com/ http://www.directdimensions.com/prod_laserscanners.htm You'd scan your physical object into the computer, make any changes then use the printer to make a 3D object you could then use to make a mold.
I've certainly looked into laser scanning and 3-d printing of pattern tooling. Right now, it is far too expensive for any without deep pockets, but one day I'm sure it will be as cheap (er) as CAD modeling and CNC-cut tooling. In this economic climate, I think the most cost-effective method would be our minimalist approach of using the existing part as a pattern.

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