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Mr Big | 04-15-2008 07:04 AM
Long Term Food Storage � White Rice http://ncowie.files.wordpress.com/20...ite-rice_1.jpg Ok, let's discuss this without all the guessing. :applause_ The topic is LONG TERM (5 year - 15 year) storage of white rice. White rice will provide you with the basic calorie (energy) requirement to survive. Things to consider Grains are best stored in plastic pails sealed with gasket-equipped (or O-ring equipped) lids. However, not all plastics are equal. Some are toxic, some allow air to migrate through the plastic. You need to know one from the other. The air inside the pail must be removed and replaced by carbon dioxide from dry ice (CO2) or nitrogen, or the grain will gradually react with the oxygen and go off (oils go rancid as they oxidize). This is MUCH less of a problem with polished white rice than with brown rice. Note: the best rice for long-term storage is LONG-grained rice, which has the lowest moisture content. The worst is short-grained. http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/im...al_exp_med.jpg

Tn...Andy | 04-15-2008 07:14 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Easier to use than dry ice or nitrogen are: http://waltonfeed.com/pic/absorber.jpg LINK: A short lesson on oxygen absorbers

graspAU | 04-15-2008 09:49 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice So if I go to the store now and pick up a 5lb bag of Uncle Ben's rice the best by date will most likely be in about 2 years. Those bags are not vacuum sealed. I understand that the pails and oxygen absorbers are preferred, but how long would I extend the rice "best by' date if I put it in glass mason jars and used a food saver to suck out the oxgen, storing them in a cool (60-62 degrees), dry, and dark pantry?

Tn...Andy | 04-15-2008 09:57 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice You could probably figure it would double, easy...probably tripple. I figure with O2 packs, and cool storage, 10 year minimum.

graspAU | 04-15-2008 12:28 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1062700) You could probably figure it would double, easy...probably tripple. I figure with O2 packs, and cool storage, 10 year minimum.
Thanks for the reply :D

Dave | 04-15-2008 03:09 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1062700) You could probably figure it would double, easy...probably tripple. I figure with O2 packs, and cool storage, 10 year minimum.
I think we should rename you to Mr. Tennessee Wizard :D Andy, I did hear that grains like rice do lose nutritional value over time, is that something you have considered? Dave

Tn...Andy | 04-15-2008 03:21 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice No doubt they do loose some Dave.....but I figure any grain that will sprout has got the basics......so if in doubt, try sprouting some. They found wheat out of the Egyptian tombs that still sprouted after 3000 years ! In fact, the sprouts are probably as good, or better for ya than the grain ! My understanding is brown rice tends to go rancid within a year or so due to the extra oils in it.....

Dave | 04-15-2008 03:46 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1063176) No doubt they do loose some Dave.....but I figure any grain that will sprout has got the basics......so if in doubt, try sprouting some. They found wheat out of the Egyptian tombs that still sprouted after 3000 years ! In fact, the sprouts are probably as good, or better for ya than the grain ! My understanding is brown rice tends to go rancid within a year or so due to the extra oils in it.....
Thanks for that Andy. I heard the same about brown rice as well. Actually, since I live in Florida I estimate I have the ability to get at least two to three harvests of rice in a year. It requires to be submerged under about 6 inches +/- of water (typical Florida swamp) and to stay above 50 degrees fahrenheit. Rice is ready to harvest in about two to three months depending upon conditions. I will be planting some rice in planters later this spring so I will let you know how it goes. Actually it is estimated you can produce about 5000 to 7000 lbs of rice per acre making it a great candidate for the daily diet. Naturally that is assuming you have plenty of water to grow with. Dave

Dave | 04-15-2008 04:21 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Some interesting numbers on growing rice: Assuming two harvest annually and an average yield of 5000lbs per acre you will produce 4oz of dry rice per square foot a year which is the approximate a single serving. If your diet consisted of one serving of rice a day you will need 365 square feet of rice per person. That would be approximately a 40' x 100' plot to support 10 people annually. According to what I have read 5000lbs should be a conservative yield for 1 acre. Just having fun with numbers. Dave

Mr Big | 04-15-2008 05:47 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice White rice is not great nutrition, but it provides ENERGY in the form of calories. This could be a big deal when the Walmart trucks are abandoned at the side of the road. Growing rice: there are some varieties that will grow on dry land. Growing is a good idea, but risky (crop failure, theft).

Dutch Dog | 04-15-2008 07:39 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice So along these lines, I just packed a ton of white rice in mylar bags with o2 absorbers. I didn't use the vacum to suck out all the air..but now that they are sealed, some bags looked like they have "vacum packed" and others look the same from when I originally packed them. I used one (1) 300 sized (I don't know what the measurement term is for it)absorber in a #10 bag size...any help is appreciated. This is my first go at storing long term food.

Tn...Andy | 04-15-2008 07:57 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Either your O2 absorber was dead ( not likely IF you opened a new package and did both types of bag at the same time ), or you did not get a good seal on the ones that don't look vac packed.

mozkill | 04-15-2008 08:03 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice I have 5 year old short grain rice in my cupboard just sitting there in the opened bag and it looks ok to me.

Dutch Dog | 04-15-2008 08:14 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1063529) Either your O2 absorber was dead ( not likely IF you opened a new package and did both types of bag at the same time ), or you did not get a good seal on the ones that don't look vac packed.
Yep, did then all at the same time (very quickly) and they were good according to the "pink" indicator. The seals all look good. AHHHH. I hate to have to redo them...time and $$$.. Then again, in 5 years, they may be worthless if I don't.

Tn...Andy | 04-15-2008 08:21 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice This is why buckets with lids that have gaskets are nice......the lid provides another layer of seal in case you screw the pooch on the bag. You can tell the bucket sealed by the lid caving in, and sometimes the sides will too.

Squirrel Bait | 04-15-2008 10:11 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 1063274) Some interesting numbers on growing rice: Assuming two harvest annually and an average yield of 5000lbs per acre you will produce 4oz of dry rice per square foot a year which is the approximate a single serving. If your diet consisted of one serving of rice a day you will need 365 square feet of rice per person. That would be approximately a 40' x 100' plot to support 10 people annually. According to what I have read 5000lbs should be a conservative yield for 1 acre. Just having fun with numbers. Dave
Yo, Dave, can you back up those figures. 5000lbs per acre is 80 bushes per acre??????? Wheat is generally 50-60 bushels per acre max, US midwest right?? Can you support your position? sb

Mr Big | 04-15-2008 10:16 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by mozkill (Post 1063537) I have 5 year old short grain rice in my cupboard just sitting there in the opened bag and it looks ok to me.
Take some out and cook it, eat it and report back on the taste. :wink:

Dave | 04-15-2008 11:10 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Bait (Post 1063705) Yo, Dave, can you back up those figures. 5000lbs per acre is 80 bushes per acre??????? Wheat is generally 50-60 bushels per acre max, US midwest right?? Can you support your position? sb
Sure... Simply Google "rice yields per acre" and you can find the averages for your state. Actually several states are well over 6,000lbs. Most of the figures I viewed were Texas, Louisiana, Florida, gulf rim states. You need lots of water and sun so yields are probably best along the gulf rim. Dave

seppuku | 04-15-2008 11:45 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice do these storage considerations work with pasta/wheat products? do they store longer? More nutritious than rice? advantages, disadvantages care to comment?

Mr Big | 04-16-2008 03:48 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice This is a RICE storage thread, seppuku. I have not researched other grains because white rice is ideal to store. Pasta is not a grain anyway, and each brand will have different moisture contents and different storability.

Eastex | 04-16-2008 09:22 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice My batting average with O2 absorbers is below .500! We've tried a couple different ways to load the bucket and seal, but with mixed results. This last time, we got good seals, but seems my absorbers were "anemic". Vacuum packing has worked best but more storage problems. BTW, Seppuku, I've been vac-packing the pastas and spaghetti. Not sure how long it'll last, we hope for 2-3 years. Be careful, the spaghetti will punch through the bag. Andy, how many O2 paks are you putting in each bucket? We used 5 ea last time.

Tn...Andy | 04-17-2008 09:33 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice I've been putting 3 IN the bags, and one in the bucket outside the bag......so far, I've only had one bucket that I had to take the lid off and throw a couple more packs in and re-lid it.....it didn't cave in like the rest of them. I'm wondering if a little Crisco or something like that rubbed on the sealing rubber ring wouldn't be a good thing to make SURE it seals....

PandaMonium | 04-17-2008 02:32 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1065730) I've been putting 3 IN the bags, and one in the bucket outside the bag......so far, I've only had one bucket that I had to take the lid off and throw a couple more packs in and re-lid it.....it didn't cave in like the rest of them. I'm wondering if a little Crisco or something like that rubbed on the sealing rubber ring wouldn't be a good thing to make SURE it seals....
Hey Tn, I saw your other post about Sam's being open to all this weekend and thought it would be a good opportunity to lay-in some larger volumes of food. I have not yet done any bucket storage, but would be very appreciative if you could share specifics on what type of mylar bags and buckets you use for grain storage. Specific sizes, part numbers, vendors, etc. would be great, if you have the time. I thought I read that you use HD buckets. I assume that is Home Depot? Are those food grade buckets? Your experience on all matters of prepping helps us new guys get further up the learning curve much faster and is truly a benefit. Thank you for all that you contribute.

RealityCheck | 04-17-2008 02:54 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Just remember, white rice offers almost zero nutrition. If thats all you store you'll end up with heart and nervous system damage (search Beri Beri).

silverblood | 04-17-2008 03:17 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityCheck (Post 1066238) Just remember, white rice offers almost zero nutrition. If thats all you store you'll end up with heart and nervous system damage (search Beri Beri).
Here is one comparative listing of rice nutritional content. I wouldn't say "zero nutrition". Take a look at the first three columns of this chart: http://www.rebeccablood.net/domestic/rice.html Brown rice is clearly superior to white long-grained parboiled (e.g., converted rice) and plain white long-grained rice. But it is not such a huge difference that it warrants characterizing white rice as lacking in nutrition.

RealityCheck | 04-17-2008 03:35 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblood (Post 1066287) Here is one comparative listing of rice nutritional content. I wouldn't say "zero nutrition". Take a look at the first three columns of this chart: http://www.rebeccablood.net/domestic/rice.html Brown rice is clearly superior to white long-grained parboiled (e.g., converted rice) and plain white long-grained rice. But it is not such a huge difference that it warrants characterizing white rice as lacking in nutrition.
True, zero is a stretch. What I meant is that you can't survive solely on white rice.

graspAU | 04-17-2008 06:50 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityCheck (Post 1066315) True, zero is a stretch. What I meant is that you can't survive solely on white rice.
Rice and beans. Hopefully a little canned fish or chicken to add and a multi-vitamin, while the unprepared starve. :D (or are liquidated, whichever word you prefer).

Tn...Andy | 04-17-2008 09:14 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaMonium (Post 1066214) Hey Tn, I saw your other post about Sam's being open to all this weekend and thought it would be a good opportunity to lay-in some larger volumes of food. I have not yet done any bucket storage, but would be very appreciative if you could share specifics on what type of mylar bags and buckets you use for grain storage. Specific sizes, part numbers, vendors, etc. would be great, if you have the time. I thought I read that you use HD buckets. I assume that is Home Depot? Are those food grade buckets? Your experience on all matters of prepping helps us new guys get further up the learning curve much faster and is truly a benefit. Thank you for all that you contribute.
Look at these two U-tube videos that a friend of mine made.....it explains bucket packing quite well. YouTube - Longterm food storage part 1
YouTube - Longterm food storage part 1
YouTube - Longterm food storage part 2
YouTube - Longterm food storage part 2
The buckets I use are from Home Depot....you can probably find them other places....just make SURE the lid has the rubber gasket. You can also find used buckets, but I don't fool with them, because I understand the smell of whatever was IN the bucket before ( like pickles ) is hard to remove, and may permeate your food...cake icing buckets from a bakery or deli might be OK.....but I honestly haven't gone looking....I just buy new ones at HD. The HDPE-2 ( look on the bottom of the bucket...little triangle with a "2" in it ) is a food grade TYPE bucket, but may not be rated FOR food due to dye ( like Home Depot's ORANGE ) used in the bucket. But my thinking is if you use a mylar bag for the food, the grade of the bucket isn't important, since the food will never touch it....the bucket is just a hard shell to protect your bag......so I use Home Depot buckets.....white ones if they have them, orange if they are out of the white ones.....all the lids are orange though.... Bags: You simply have to do a search for mylar bags. The last ones I bought were from Survival Unlimited in Louisiana, but they are currently out of them.....there are a lot of places that have them.....just make sure you get one big enough for a 5 gallon bucket....a 20x30" size or thereabouts. I use the wife's clothes iron set on about 3/4 high, and a block of 2x4. An extra pair of hands here to hold the top of the bag straight and tight is handy at this point. Careful with the iron.....you CAN melt the bag if you let the iron sit still...... http://www.survivalunlimited.com/buckets.htm Sealing tips Then, you will need packs of oxygen absorbers....the 500cc size. I put two in a mylar bag, and one more OUTSIDE the bag, but inside the bucket before I seal it up as a backup IN CASE the bag didn't seal. You should see your bucket lid cave down in a few hours....indicating the O2 pack in the bucket is drawing a vacuum. IF the lid is still up the next day, your lid didn't seal....re-do it, and check the bag as long as you have it open to see if IT drew up tight, indicating you got a seal there.....if not, clip one corner, throw in 2 more absorbers and reseal....throw another in the bucket, and put the lid on. The O2 absorbers need to be put in the bags and buckets as quickly as you can. I get enough buckets ready for ONE pack of 40 absorbers ( yeah...I know 3 doesn't go into 40 evenly....throw one extra in somewhere :D ) Which means you need 13 buckets worth of food lined up ready to go....fill the bags ( I don't bother with one O2 pack in the bottom.....I figure they will get the oxygen in the bag from any position in the bag )....then open the package of absorbers....throw them in the bags/buckets and get to sealing....quick... From personal experience, I can tell you a 5 gallon bucket will hold 30 lbs of pinto beans or about 35 lbs of rice or loose grains you might buy from a feed store......or 24 lbs of spaghetti noodles ( 6 of the 4lb Sams packs )....so purchase accordingly. Get enough food to make 1 run for the number of O2 packs you have to open. Don't try to store them in glass jars or that baloney, or you will end up with absorbers of questionable quality. Do you REALLY want to open a bucket in 5-10 years to find oxidized food because you save 1.50 on your absorbers ? Not me....this a PITA ( pain in the @$$ ) to do, so I'm not cutting corners. Then check for buckets the next day for sealing ( the lid caved in....maybe the sides some too ) and set aside any that didn't seal to your satisfaction, and make another run to include them. ( meaning less NEW buckets of food this time because you will redo those unsealed ones....you shouldn't have MUCH fail to seal....maybe one or two out of a run of 13....maybe none.... ). This is a GOLDEN opportunity if you have a Sams near you. Pinto beans are 7 bucks/10lbs...rice is about 22 bucks/50lbs.....spaghetti is about 5 bucks/4lbs. Figure 8 bucks for a new bucket, 2 bucks for a mylar bag, and 2 bucks for O2 packs ( I'm figuring shipping in there ).....you'd have 12 bucks in packing....and 20-30 bucks per bucket for food.....say 35 bucks/bucket average.....13 buckets will set you back 450 FRNs...for somewhere around 400lbs of food. Make no mistake....it WON'T be complete nutrition by any means....you'll still need other canned/dried goods to round out, but 1.10 per lb is gonna seem DIRT CHEAP down the road....maybe a lifesaver. Andy

Dutch Dog | 04-18-2008 06:09 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Awesome post Andy! That is exactly the info I was looking for. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

Eastex | 04-18-2008 07:46 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Dog (Post 1067255) Awesome post Andy! That is exactly the info I was looking for. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
+1! I saw some of my mistakes from the video. Many thanks!

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- - Long Term Food Storage � White Rice (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=256694)

Mone | 04-18-2008 11:00 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Hello Andy, Thank you for this info. I have spent the day locating the deals on food and have purchased the mylar bags and ordered the oxygen absorbers (3 bags 750 cc - 20/bag). Tomorrow I'll find the pails- mostly 5 gallon but also a few smaller for tang, baking soda, etc. Found a sweet deal on pancake mix at a local mill... beans at a bean plant... the rest at various bulk stores. Nice bulk dry soup mixes, too. I just wanted to say thanks. :) 6 people in my family- wish me luck. Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1066845) Look at these two U-tube videos that a friend of mine made.....it explains bucket packing quite well. YouTube - Longterm food storage part 1 YouTube - Longterm food storage part 2 The buckets I use are from Home Depot....you can probably find them other places....just make SURE the lid has the rubber gasket. You can also find used buckets, but I don't fool with them, because I understand the smell of whatever was IN the bucket before ( like pickles ) is hard to remove, and may permeate your food...cake icing buckets from a bakery or deli might be OK.....but I honestly haven't gone looking....I just buy new ones at HD. The HDPE-2 ( look on the bottom of the bucket...little triangle with a "2" in it ) is a food grade TYPE bucket, but may not be rated FOR food due to dye ( like Home Depot's ORANGE ) used in the bucket. But my thinking is if you use a mylar bag for the food, the grade of the bucket isn't important, since the food will never touch it....the bucket is just a hard shell to protect your bag......so I use Home Depot buckets.....white ones if they have them, orange if they are out of the white ones.....all the lids are orange though.... Bags: You simply have to do a search for mylar bags. The last ones I bought were from Survival Unlimited in Louisiana, but they are currently out of them.....there are a lot of places that have them.....just make sure you get one big enough for a 5 gallon bucket....a 20x30" size or thereabouts. I use the wife's clothes iron set on about 3/4 high, and a block of 2x4. An extra pair of hands here to hold the top of the bag straight and tight is handy at this point. Careful with the iron.....you CAN melt the bag if you let the iron sit still...... http://www.survivalunlimited.com/buckets.htm Sealing tips Then, you will need packs of oxygen absorbers....the 500cc size. I put two in a mylar bag, and one more OUTSIDE the bag, but inside the bucket before I seal it up as a backup IN CASE the bag didn't seal. You should see your bucket lid cave down in a few hours....indicating the O2 pack in the bucket is drawing a vacuum. IF the lid is still up the next day, your lid didn't seal....re-do it, and check the bag as long as you have it open to see if IT drew up tight, indicating you got a seal there.....if not, clip one corner, throw in 2 more absorbers and reseal....throw another in the bucket, and put the lid on. The O2 absorbers need to be put in the bags and buckets as quickly as you can. I get enough buckets ready for ONE pack of 40 absorbers ( yeah...I know 3 doesn't go into 40 evenly....throw one extra in somewhere :D ) Which means you need 13 buckets worth of food lined up ready to go....fill the bags ( I don't bother with one O2 pack in the bottom.....I figure they will get the oxygen in the bag from any position in the bag )....then open the package of absorbers....throw them in the bags/buckets and get to sealing....quick... From personal experience, I can tell you a 5 gallon bucket will hold 30 lbs of pinto beans or about 35 lbs of rice or loose grains you might buy from a feed store......or 24 lbs of spaghetti noodles ( 6 of the 4lb Sams packs )....so purchase accordingly. Get enough food to make 1 run for the number of O2 packs you have to open. Don't try to store them in glass jars or that baloney, or you will end up with absorbers of questionable quality. Do you REALLY want to open a bucket in 5-10 years to find oxidized food because you save 1.50 on your absorbers ? Not me....this a PITA ( pain in the @$$ ) to do, so I'm not cutting corners. Then check for buckets the next day for sealing ( the lid caved in....maybe the sides some too ) and set aside any that didn't seal to your satisfaction, and make another run to include them. ( meaning less NEW buckets of food this time because you will redo those unsealed ones....you shouldn't have MUCH fail to seal....maybe one or two out of a run of 13....maybe none.... ). This is a GOLDEN opportunity if you have a Sams near you. Pinto beans are 7 bucks/10lbs...rice is about 22 bucks/50lbs.....spaghetti is about 5 bucks/4lbs. Figure 8 bucks for a new bucket, 2 bucks for a mylar bag, and 2 bucks for O2 packs ( I'm figuring shipping in there ).....you'd have 12 bucks in packing....and 20-30 bucks per bucket for food.....say 35 bucks/bucket average.....13 buckets will set you back 450 FRNs...for somewhere around 400lbs of food. Make no mistake....it WON'T be complete nutrition by any means....you'll still need other canned/dried goods to round out, but 1.10 per lb is gonna seem DIRT CHEAP down the road....maybe a lifesaver. Andy

demosfen | 04-19-2008 12:34 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Another youtube video also suggests putting some bay leaves in, allegedly bugs don't like it P.S. One thing I am not clear about after watching this video is how you talk your wife into moving out of the city :thinkey: P.P.S. Everything you need to know you can learn from Youtube or TN...Andy

Tn...Andy | 04-19-2008 08:58 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice One thing I am not clear about after watching this video is how you talk your wife into moving out of the city Pretty sure that has to be part of the original package.....not something you can add on later with much success..... :D ....so consider that when you marry.

WeNeedARevolution | 04-19-2008 06:19 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice ^Dunno about that...my wife's come to her senses recently. :D BTW, this should be a sticky. Lots of good information in here that could be used by others at a later date.

Mone | 04-19-2008 06:26 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by WeNeedARevolution (Post 1069403) BTW, this should be a sticky. Lots of good information in here that could be used by others at a later date.
Hell yeah. Got a dozen pails with lids today and am sampling some bulk items. Some good stuff! Great info here. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...lies/0-133.gif

shades2 | 04-19-2008 10:24 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice White long-grained polished rice will last for ages if you can keep it dry and cool, nitrogen atmosphere ideal with O2 absorbers in mylar etc. packaging. That and white refined sugar / salt / bicarb. Rice = carbohydrates. Sugar = carbohydrates. Salt = necessary for health / re-hydration. Various uses, kill slugs/snails, can be used to make chlorine. Bicarb = necessary for rehydration + other uses. Water = I'm sure you've figured out a source of water already? All you need is loads of this stuff, it's relatively cheap to buy (now). Easy and compact to store, has an extremely long lifespan when stored properly, and you can trade with it for other stuff later. Note that polished white rice will not (should not) germinate as the germ has been removed during the hulling / polishing process, so you can't rely on it to grow more rice, you will need to store wheat for that. If nothing else, by storing these items you will beat inflation, but you have to like eating rice. :) Turn your stock over every 5 years (if feasible) for more stock. Unfortunately spices do not last so well at all, so you should always have them on hand for cooking and just use them up and buy more when you run low.

Mr Big | 04-19-2008 11:05 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Mylar bags and absorbers are not really necessary. They are promoted because they are profitable sales items for online survivalist stores. Cheapest method is straight into bucket with dry ice. As soon as the dry ice has sublimated, seal the lid. Lid should buckle in slightly. This leaves the survivalist stores without anything to sell to you ... boohoo.

Heimdhal | 04-23-2008 02:31 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Big (Post 1069736) Mylar bags and absorbers are not really necessary. They are promoted because they are profitable sales items for online survivalist stores. Cheapest method is straight into bucket with dry ice. As soon as the dry ice has sublimated, seal the lid. Lid should buckle in slightly. This leaves the survivalist stores without anything to sell to you ... boohoo.
I was wondering that very same thing myself. Why even bother with the mylar if your putting them into the buckets anyways. If you arent using the buckets to defend against bullets and you store it right, damage to the bucket wall is not overly likley. Put an oxy aborber(for good measure) and some dry ice in there and viola, sealed tight for years! Or even vacu sealing it with a machine!

Silver Bullet | 04-23-2008 07:44 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Big (Post 1069736) Mylar bags and absorbers are not really necessary. They are promoted because they are profitable sales items for online survivalist stores. Cheapest method is straight into bucket with dry ice. As soon as the dry ice has sublimated, seal the lid. Lid should buckle in slightly. This leaves the survivalist stores without anything to sell to you ... boohoo.
I consider the bucket and the bag as complimentary back-up systems rather than an redundant unnecessity. When/if food is unavailable I don't want to be thinking back to threads like this thinking dang, if I had just used both instead of saving a couple of bucks... BTW - rice has about 33 calories per ounce. Cup sizes seem to vary from 160g to 186g (5 to 6.5 oz) which equates to around 184 cal to 242 cal. Better store/plant a lotta rice if you plan to depend heavily on it. To get 800 cal/day for a year would take 553 pounds of rice.:bear_wacko:

mightyspuds | 04-23-2008 08:23 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice The buckets do allow some air in,albiet slowly.Also the mylar should prevent any 'tastes' from getting into the food.Buckets with mylar bags is how the pro's are putting up the max life food they sell,ie,Waltons. You heard my pickle bucket tale of woe,how I now have pickled flavored dehydrated apples,mylar should have prevented that.Ziplocks in buckets didnt. That said I just sent in my order for 25 bags,20X30 inch,that fit the 5-6 gallon buckets. Total delivered is 43.60 USD.Thats 1.74 per bag delivered,best price I could find.I think thats cheap enough for the BEST storage medium currently available to the homeowner type person to store a lot of food. http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-b...e=WMSL-PP-MB5G Im seriously considering skipping the buckets and putting the mylar bagged food into metal trash cans for a physical barrier to mice,etc.As long as the bags have a proper seal with 02 absorbers making a vacuum this should work.

TechGuy | 04-23-2008 08:29 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Big (Post 1069736) Mylar bags and absorbers are not really necessary. They are promoted because they are profitable sales items for online survivalist stores. Cheapest method is straight into bucket with dry ice. As soon as the dry ice has sublimated, seal the lid. Lid should buckle in slightly. This leaves the survivalist stores without anything to sell to you ... boohoo.
Plastic food grade buckets are oxygen and gas permeable. That is what the mylar is for, to REALLY slow this process down (it will NOT stop it entirely). Here is my preference list for storage: 1. #10 metal can, sealed with a roll over seal, with oxy absorber 2. Glass with oxy absorber or vacuum (or both) stored in sealed boxes 3. Mylar bags back with oxy absorbers and stored in boxes or buckets (but only for short term (less than 10 years) storage Notice that my top 2 are items that have a gas permeability of ZERO.

KingTheoden | 04-23-2008 09:00 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice I want to thank you guys for volunteering your knowledge and donating it to GIM. I have learned an enormous amount in this one thread alone.

Heimdhal | 04-23-2008 09:07 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Tech Guy, what site do you use to pruchase the stuff, im shopping around so I want more sources :) how permiable are the buckets exactly. I mean if you were gonna do bucket only, would 5 years be safe? Have you dont the dry ice as i've seen mentioned before as well? I am interested in learning more about that.

TechGuy | 04-23-2008 09:25 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1075701) Tech Guy, what site do you use to pruchase the stuff, im shopping around so I want more sources :) how permiable are the buckets exactly. I mean if you were gonna do bucket only, would 5 years be safe? Have you dont the dry ice as i've seen mentioned before as well? I am interested in learning more about that.
I am trying to find the exact ratings for a food grade polyethylene bucket, I will post if I find them. normal haunts: beprepared.com nitro-pak.com waltonfeed.com (website sucks, good place though) mredepot.com (thanks to this thread, same day shipping) theepicenter.com (for occasional stuff) http://www.ldscatalog.com/webapp/wcs...cg3=&cg4=&cg5= THIS IS A GOOD ONE GUYS. LDS IS NOT TRYING TO MAKE MONEY. FREE SHIPPING, WHEAT, RICE, BEANS, OXY, POUCHES

Abouthadit | 04-23-2008 10:16 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Is it true that it's a good idea to freeze rice, beans, whatever, to kill the critters before >> buckets?

Squirrel Bait | 04-23-2008 10:34 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1075701) Tech Guy, what site do you use to pruchase the stuff, im shopping around so I want more sources :) how permiable are the buckets exactly. I mean if you were gonna do bucket only, would 5 years be safe? Have you dont the dry ice as i've seen mentioned before as well? I am interested in learning more about that.
Hey Heimy, I've done buckets only before If you put grain in buckets only and some O2 absorbers,or CO2, it should easily be good for 5 years. Store it in a cool dry place and it will probably be good for 10 or maybe more. There have been "documented" ?? cases where people have had wheat in #10 can for 25 years and it was still good. This is what the bucket and mylar bag should do. Theoretically. The bucket/mylar bag combo are the "Cadillac" of storage, so to speak(for a bucket size anyway). If you think you will use it before then, then go with the cheaper methode. But people have been predicting "Doom and Gloom" for a long time. Timing is a tough concept to pin down. The big key here is that storing grains, pastas, flour etc. in the abscence of oxygen will keep them from going rancid for a long long time. That's all. sb ps you can always recharge it after a few years if you think you need to. Either put a couple new absorbers in it and reseal or put a tube in so you can slide some CO2 into the bottom of the bucket, let it turn into gas and reseal. From what I understand the CO2 will also take care of any little critters too. CO2 is my favorite but you have to be patient. It turns the process into an all afternoon event. Gotta let the stuff sublimate.

electric-amish | 04-23-2008 11:58 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Where can you get bags of Wheat like the man in the Video used? Would this work for Oat Meal? Thanks for the Video Andy. So far reading your stuff has cost me hundreds of dollars.:clap2: Most recently Loading equipment that is something I'm having fun with. E-A

Heimdhal | 04-24-2008 12:22 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Bait (Post 1075824) Hey Heimy, I've done buckets only before If you put grain in buckets only and some O2 absorbers,or CO2, it should easily be good for 5 years. Store it in a cool dry place and it will probably be good for 10 or maybe more. There have been "documented" ?? cases where people have had wheat in #10 can for 25 years and it was still good. This is what the bucket and mylar bag should do. Theoretically. The bucket/mylar bag combo are the "Cadillac" of storage, so to speak(for a bucket size anyway). If you think you will use it before then, then go with the cheaper methode. But people have been predicting "Doom and Gloom" for a long time. Timing is a tough concept to pin down. The big key here is that storing grains, pastas, flour etc. in the abscence of oxygen will keep them from going rancid for a long long time. That's all. sb ps you can always recharge it after a few years if you think you need to. Either put a couple new absorbers in it and reseal or put a tube in so you can slide some CO2 into the bottom of the bucket, let it turn into gas and reseal. From what I understand the CO2 will also take care of any little critters too. CO2 is my favorite but you have to be patient. It turns the process into an all afternoon event. Gotta let the stuff sublimate.
Thanks for the info, and you too tech guy! I want something that will keep my flour a little longer. I am a baker and therefor my flour moves fairly quickly as home, but not as fast as if i were in a bake shop, obviously. So I want something to merly extend the life of my flour by 1-3 years. Im not looking at 20 year storage. Im not of the same beliefe as some that NO food will be available. It will be, just at higher prices, maybe MUCH higher prices, but there will be food. Which is the better method though, oxy aborbers or co2? I was leaning on the co2 simply because chances are i will open a few buckets now and then and reseal them as I need the flour. The rice however will be use much less. I also want to start packing some meat, veggies and fruits. I was gonna vacu pack the meat with oxy aborbers for good measure. The veggies like pease and corn get dehydrated and vacu packed and fruits(and some veggies) will be home canned, as will soup. I am new to canning though:smokin:

mightyspuds | 04-24-2008 01:11 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice I think 2 mylar bags at 1.74 each will store about 25 lbs each.Add an 02 absorber. Then store the bags in a protection cannister,be it a 5 gallon bucket or metal trash can or even a rubbermaid container,something that will get mice out. Then open 25 lbs at a time.Or seal a meal 3 plastic bags per mylar bag,add o2 absorber to mylar and seal.When you open a mylar you would have 3 approx 8 lb. bags. Thats what I have in my buckets,3 bags,but Im going to put them in mylar over the 3 seal a meal bags to protect from air/odor infiltration.Not sure if I will bucket or trash can store the mylar bags.

mightyspuds | 04-24-2008 01:17 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Doesnt take us long to go through 25 lbs flour for 2 people,we bake all our own bread and buns.

Heimdhal | 04-24-2008 01:35 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyspuds (Post 1076005) Doesnt take us long to go through 25 lbs flour for 2 people,we bake all our own bread and buns.
oh trust me, i know how fast it goes :) As a baker, it is not unusualy for me to literaly go through 3 50 pound bags on one batch of dough. But baking at home is much different and it all depends on the types of breads you are making. My problem with storage is i literaly have 4 or 5 different types of flour, from cake and pastry all the way to high gluten bread flour. Knowing the right flour for the application and most importantly, the right rations for mixing flours for items makes flour usuage extremely efficient. To me, flour is literaly the most important food item one can store. Flour Fat(butter, shortening, oils) Salt Water Those things will literaly sustain life almost entirley on their own, though its not the most ideal. So i am using my industry contacts to load up on 50 pound bags of flour and will start canning my own butter here shortly :)

nub | 04-24-2008 01:47 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1074281) I was wondering that very same thing myself. Why even bother with the mylar if your putting them into the buckets anyways. If you arent using the buckets to defend against bullets and you store it right, damage to the bucket wall is not overly likley. Put an oxy aborber(for good measure) and some dry ice in there and viola, sealed tight for years! Or even vacu sealing it with a machine!
One very good reason for Mylar is it's flexability.....better put, the bucket being less flexible will not react to the change in atmospheric conditions(pressure) as well as a bag and can allow air to penetrate the lid seal , or so I've read.

Little Ant | 04-24-2008 06:10 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Will this work just as well if you put several sealed one gallon mylars, each with its own O2 absorber, in the bucket and then throw in more O2 absorbers in the bucket and seal? Or would you need too many O2 absorbers?

TechGuy | 04-24-2008 06:16 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Ant (Post 1077220) Will this work just as well if you put several sealed one gallon mylars, each with its own O2 absorber, in the bucket and then throw in more O2 absorbers in the bucket and seal? Or would you need too many O2 absorbers?
You can use smaller oxy's for that. I tihnk a 500 CC oxy is just slightly overkill for a 1 gallon bag. (overkill is AOK) It really depends on how tightly you can pack the bags in the bucket to determine how many oxy absorbers you will need to 'dress' the bucket. My guess is that you should count on using 3 or 4 oxy's in the bucket after you have it full of mylar bags. I am not sure that long term the oxy's in the bucket accomplish much, if you rest better with them in there, burn three of four and sleep easy.

Heimdhal | 04-25-2008 12:58 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice I want to recap a little here. If I get mylar bags in which to store items, should i get the food grade plastic bins or does it not matter? If I do NOT get mylar bags, will my dry goods be good for at least 1-5 years in a sealed plastic food grade bucket with some oxy absorbers? EDIT: I should add. Would it be acceptable to store flour in mylar bags only(without the bucket) if i plan on using them within a year?

mightyspuds | 04-25-2008 01:57 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice H,from what I can find mylar stored in any protective container is fine,the buckets just give you added insurance as a second vacuum chamber beyond the physical protection aspect.Definitely OK to vacuum into mylar with either vacuum machine and/or o2 absorber and should easily last a year,mylar is famous for not allowing air infiltration,with an o2 absorber what miniscule amount gets in will be taken care of over time. o2 absorber definitely the best way in storing flour for the absolute best result it is claimed. If just bucket get food grade.The buckets will allow more air infiltration than the mylar bags it is claimed.If in mylar it should be OK in any bucket,though obviously using chemical buckets (used) is foolish. Thats what Ive read.Im not sure but longest Ive read on flour was about7-8 years.The wheat berries should outlast you.Read a guy had mylar bags in pails,from Waltons (superpails they call them),that was 9 years old and temps as high as 90F in florida,and the bread was OK with just a slight sourdough taste,but otherwise A-OK. Watch this video,its helpful I think.BTW,I just ordered the 25 bags from her,best price I could find on the web.Cost 43.50 for 25 bags delivered.BTW,dont cheap out here,buy the bags,I will swear to that,lesson learned the hard way http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/store/food_storage.html

Mone | 04-25-2008 09:35 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Question: How thick is the mylar bag meant to be to work well? The only reference to this that I have seen has been 2 mm. Is this acceptable? TIA.

Mr Big | 04-25-2008 10:48 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Bullet (Post 1075610) BTW - rice has about 33 calories per ounce.
Dry white rice is 3.7calories per gram, or about 103 cals/oz. Quote:
To get 800 cal/day for a year would take 553 pounds of ice.:bear_wacko:
The correct figure is 182 pounds. :bash:

Mr Big | 04-25-2008 11:40 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1075661) Plastic food grade buckets are oxygen and gas permeable. That is what the mylar is for, to REALLY slow this process down (it will NOT stop it entirely).
Data for oxygen permeability & plastics: material..................................ml o2/(day*mil*sq. meter*atm) PE (polyethylene).........................6000-15000 HDPE.........................................1500-3000 Saran........................................10-350 Mylar.........................................50-100 Foil laminate................................0 Plastic laminate...........................10-400

Mr Big | 04-25-2008 11:46 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Just a comment here on calories and whether we need to store stuff like rice. If all you need is energy, the best bet is to pass on storing rice and grow potatoes. Potatoes can be grown in almost any climate, require little water, mature in as few as 50 days and can yield more food per acre than wheat or rice. World Food Crisis — Taters to the Rescue http://media.monstersandcritics.com/...1208225169.jpg

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nub | 04-25-2008 11:52 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Mone (Post 1079045) Question: How thick is the mylar bag meant to be to work well? The only reference to this that I have seen has been 2 mm. Is this acceptable? TIA.
It might be acceptable but 3 or 4 mm is waaaaay better

TechGuy | 04-25-2008 11:54 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Big (Post 1079145) Data for oxygen permeability & plastics: material..................................ml o2/(day*mil*sq. meter*atm) PE (polyethylene).........................6000-15000 HDPE.........................................1500-3000 Saran........................................10-350 Mylar.........................................50-100 Foil laminate................................0 Plastic laminate...........................10-400
Thanks, I was looking for that! This is the same basic chart I remembered. This is why you shouldnt rely totally on PE buckets only!

Iptuous | 04-26-2008 12:50 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Ok. Read through the whole thread and found it to be a wealth of information. Lot learned on the mechanics of storage. With all the 'rationing at costco' bizness going on, i thought i should get serious about food storage, rather than just slowly increasing the size of my canned goods in the pantry. Went to costco and, sure enough they were out of the big bags, except for basmati, which i don't care for. So i thought, "hey, i'm at the wrong place. I need to go to the asian market." Went there, and they had -TONS- of rice. Probably several thousand bags. Many, many varieties. The wife looked at me with a "ok, survival man" look and asked which one we should get. Hell if I know. I personally like the short grain sticky rice, but you guys say that's got too much moisture for long term storage. So i just buy a 20 lb. bag of that for current consumption, and figure i'll come back for storage rice after i consult the Intarweb. So what specifics do you guys look for in a storage rice? Edit: i just saw that the rice i like (Kokuho Rose) is actually a medium grain milled rice (water mist polished)

RealityCheck | 04-26-2008 01:00 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 1079620) The wife looked at me with a "ok, survival man" look and asked which one we should get.
Stick with Jasmine Rice and you can't go wrong. It costs a tad more then 'regular' rice but its still dirt cheap at this point. Thailand is being pressured to ban the export of their rice. Once they do there will be no more Jasmine rice to be bought at any price since thats where its all grown. Might as well get it now.

Iptuous | 04-26-2008 01:09 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityCheck (Post 1079636) Stick with Jasmine Rice and you can't go wrong. It costs a tad more then 'regular' rice but its still dirt cheap at this point. Thailand is being pressured to ban the export of their rice. Once they do there will be no more Jasmine rice to be bought at any price since thats where its all grown. Might as well get it now.
Why is it better (esp. for storage purposes) than any other long grained rice?

RealityCheck | 04-26-2008 01:37 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 1079646) Why is it better (esp. for storage purposes) than any other long grained rice?
As far as storage its no different then regular white rice. As far as flavor its much tastier. It has an aroma that's sweet and a more velvety texture. Its hard to explain but its good. Regular rice in comparison is somewhat bland.

JJ_ | 04-28-2008 11:33 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice WOW What a Thread! talk about 1 stop information shopping on drygoods storage. Couple of questions.. This past weekend I got serious about stocking drygoods... I'll be getting busy on the mylar + oxyabsorb + foodpail making as soon as i get some absorbers and Mylar. 1st question- from the lds site: Are the "foil packs" listed Mylar -- It looks like it but doesn't say specifically. I won't post the link because its lengthy and i havent figured out text hyperlinks yet.. 2nd Question- How does this storage method hold up to heat? I'm considering attic storage, but I'm afraid of what the reduction in shelf life will be reduced to. you guys are the best- thx in advance

mightyspuds | 04-28-2008 06:37 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Big (Post 1079145) Data for oxygen permeability & plastics: material..................................ml o2/(day*mil*sq. meter*atm) PE (polyethylene).........................6000-15000 HDPE.........................................1500-3000 Saran........................................10-350 Mylar.........................................50-100 Foil laminate................................0 Plastic laminate...........................10-400
So the mylar with the foil laminate sure has some great numbers! Probably explains why HDPE buckets suck up odors so bad.

Tn...Andy | 04-28-2008 08:34 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1081604) 2nd Question- How does this storage method hold up to heat? I'm considering attic storage, but I'm afraid of what the reduction in shelf life will be reduced to.
Shelf life of attic storage will be months instead of years. Somewhere there are charts, but basically you start with 70 and double or half for each 10 degree temp below or above that....so at 80, a food that would store fine at 70 for 5 years cuts to 2 1/2, and 90 , 1.2 years, and 100, 7 months, and 110, 3.5 months. Most attics will hit well over 100 in summer. I'm sure there are variations, but that is a rule of thumb. A 60 degree basement would give you 10 years on a normal 5 year shelf life. You need to rethink attic storage. Use the attic for paper goods and clothes.

TechGuy | 04-28-2008 08:48 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ ShortStroke (Post 1081604) WOW 1st question- from the lds site: Are the "foil packs" listed Mylar -- It looks like it but doesn't say specifically.
Yes, they are Mylar, and they are the very thick mylar bags, I think they are 3 or 4 mil. The oxygen packs are very good too, I think they are at least 2x under-rated. Dont store anything edible in the attic. You can store it at my place :D

JJ_ | 04-29-2008 10:24 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Thanks TNANDY.... I figured I wasn't a good idea... Just thought maybe w/ rice, it might work.. I do have some room available at my bro's apt- He's got a spare bedroom that We're...duhh ehhh well mostly I'M storing preps in. Bummer of it is that he is in the next town north of me bout 12 miles and I'd rather keep as much as I can on site. OOoooh well- I'll work it out. Thx Tech.. I thought so. Just wanted to be sure. How bout I send ya some fresh oakra outta the garden when it starts making.. you can CAN em fer me :D.....

Mr Big | 05-11-2008 06:58 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice So annoying. Just bought 5 x 10kg bags of "Sunrice" rice from Woolworths here in Australia for storage. Opened the first one and was hit with this horrible musty smell, like mold. Grrrrr! Look out, this stuff is junk. :banghead: http://www.coles.com.au/images/cmi/l..._rice_pack.jpg

Mr Big | 06-03-2008 11:00 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Just another warning about so called "food grade" HDPE buckets: Quote:
The number 2 (with the number inside the "chasing arrows" symbol) refers to HDPE, but not all "2" marked plastics are food grade. Let me explain: The "food grade" designation is determined by plastic purity by and what mold release compound is used--not by the plastic itself, since all virgin HDPE material is safe for food. For paint buckets, manufacturers sometimes use a less expensive (and toxic) mold release compound. For food grade they must use a more expensive formulation that is non-toxic. Unless the buckets that you bought are are marked "food grade", (or, marked NSF, FDA, or USDA approved), then you will have to check with the manufacturer's web site to see if they make all food grade buckets.
from http://www.survivalblog.com/2008/04/

Mosca | 06-04-2008 03:54 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice I'm storing rice but I agree with Mr Big, potatoes are better. Rice has good calories but is low in nutrition value. Imho the best grain to have is oats. High in nutrition, high in calories and light in weight. Growing potatoes has a better yield per acre but doesn't store as well as oats. So I guess it's a case of whether you are wanting to grow a source of food or store one

Squirrel Bait | 06-04-2008 10:54 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosca (Post 1131156) I'm storing rice but I agree with Mr Big, potatoes are better. Rice has good calories but is low in nutrition value. Imho the best grain to have is oats. High in nutrition, high in calories and light in weight. Growing potatoes has a better yield per acre but doesn't store as well as oats. So I guess it's a case of whether you are wanting to grow a source of food or store one
But how do you make oat pilaf. And covering a bed of oatmeal with that stroganoff sauce just won't be the same. lol couldn't resist. Yes oats are excellent. Rolled flaked whatever. It'd be a good idea to have both so as to avoid food fatigue. Sugar and cinnamon really helps with the oats too. Cracked wheat is very similar too Variety is a good idea, but you are right, white rice isn't real high on the nutrient list. It's still a good idea to have some bulk stored up though. s

xinkid | 06-04-2008 12:15 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Hello everyone, I'm new to preps and am a lazy one. We eat rice everyday at home. We bought a bunch of 20lb bags of rice to rotate. I don't plan to seal them with mylar or buckets if I don't have to. My question is, how long can white rice last just sitting in my closet that's about 80 degrees right now in somewhat humid central texas? If it can last 1 year, then I think we'll just always have 1 years supply and rotate without doing all the extra work.

TechGuy | 06-04-2008 01:14 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by xinkid (Post 1131628) Hello everyone, I'm new to preps and am a lazy one. We eat rice everyday at home. We bought a bunch of 20lb bags of rice to rotate. I don't plan to seal them with mylar or buckets if I don't have to. My question is, how long can white rice last just sitting in my closet that's about 80 degrees right now in somewhat humid central texas? If it can last 1 year, then I think we'll just always have 1 years supply and rotate without doing all the extra work.
Hard to say, it really depends on what the humidity is inside that closet, how stable the temp is and how long it will take for bugs to find it, and they WILL find it. Even for the lazy guy, buy yourself some food grade buckets with gasketed lids and dump it in there. That is not as good as mylar and oxy absorbers, but will keep alot of the humidity and bugs out. Should get an easy couple of years on rice that way. You should be able to re-use those buckets for years.

xinkid | 06-04-2008 03:22 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Lazy guy likes buckets. :D Can I just pour the rice into there or should I put the 20lb bags into the buckets? can I also through in some O2 absorvers into the buckets without really doing the mylar sealing? The closet is pretty dry and cool compared to the rest of the house. How many years minimum do you think I'll get if I just threw them into gasketed buckets with some o2 absorvers?

xinkid | 06-04-2008 11:34 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Does the lid that comes with this bucket provide a good enough of a seal to be used with o2 absorvers or do I need to get a gamma seal? 5-GAllon Bucket with Lid http://beprepared.com/images/250/MS-c426.jpg

Squirrel Bait | 06-05-2008 02:16 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by xinkid (Post 1132638) Does the lid that comes with this bucket provide a good enough of a seal to be used with o2 absorvers or do I need to get a gamma seal? 5-GAllon Bucket with Lid http://beprepared.com/images/250/MS-c426.jpg
The lid in this photo will seal better than a gamma seal. And yes it should be good enough. If you want to go one step farther also use a mylar bag. This should give a shelf life of 10-15 years years depending on what you are storing and assuming it is in a dry cool place. s

RealityCheck | 06-05-2008 09:42 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice I would use mylar regardless of how long it will be stored or the buckets might leach the smell of plastic over time. I could smell it in kidney beans after a couple months. Luckily I couldn't taste it so it wasn't a problem. I've read elsewhere (F.S.) that pasta has been totally ruined after 2 years in buckets since it absorbed the taste of the plastic.

Maddie | 06-05-2008 09:53 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Regarding Gamma lids: As others have said, they're not as good for long-term storage as the gasketed lids that come with the storage buckets. It's probably not a big problem if you packed the food in mylar bags with O2 absorbers. I have some buckets with Gamma lids that are about 4 years old (I ordered buckets, and the lids to some of them got lost in transit), and the sides of the buckets are still slightly sucked in. I'll keep an eye on them and rotate or repack when necessary. You may want to have some Gamma lids on hand to use when you finally open the buckets. Maybe it's my tendency to go a little overboard with the O2 absorbers, but I've found opening buckets to be quite a job. If my husband wasn't there to help to provide some extra muscle, I'd probably be getting into them with a saw! Lol! At any rate, the lids don't always survive being pried off the buckets, so you'll want either Gamma lids to reseal the buckets or Mason jars, etc., to store the food in after opening the bucket. Does anyone know if the metal bucket openers work better than the plastic ones? I've only got a plastic one, but I was thinking about getting a metal one.

xinkid | 06-05-2008 04:36 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Is this Metalized Liner for Buckets a sealable Mylar bag? The sticky had a link to this page under Mylar Bags. http://beprepared.com/images/250/FS-...rainBucket.jpg

xinkid | 06-05-2008 04:41 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice another question from lazy newbie if you don't mind! Are there any advantages of 6 gal vs 5 gal buckets other than volume?

AceNZ | 06-06-2008 12:45 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Plastic buckets are a terrible long-term food storage container -- with or without dry ice or oxygen absorbers, I'd be surprised if you even get 6 months of storage out of them. They are just too oxygen permeable. The buckets are most useful to hold mylar bags and protect them from puncture damage, pests, etc. Clear mylar is also too permeable for long-term storage. Better than the buckets, but not that much better. The best containers are either metal or glass (as Tech Guy said), provided they have top-quality seals -- or foil-clad mylar. The degree of oxygen permeability is directly proportional to how long stored food will last. Thickness alone isn't enough to determine oxygen permeability; you really need to look at the specs. From the selection available at Sorbent, the best ones I've found are the PAKDRY1500 and PAKVF4C materials. For example: PAKVAC3.0 -- 3.0 mil (clear) -- 3.5 to 4.5 cc/100 sq. in./24 hrs. PAKVF2.5M -- 2.5 mil -- 0.02 cc/m2/24 hrs. = 0.0013 cc/100 sq. in./24 hrs PAKCVF4C -- 5.0 mil -- 0.0006 cc/100 sq. in./24 hrs. PAKVF4PC -- 6.0 mil -- 0.0006 cc/100 sq. in./24 hrs. (same as the 5.0 mil material) PAKDRY1500 -- 7.0 mil -- < 0.0005 cc/100 sq. in./24 hrs Notice that the clear material has more than 6000 times (!) the permeability of the ones layered with foil. A small 10x5 inch bag has about 100 sq. inches of material. At about 4cc of oxygen per day, a single 100cc absorber in a bag like that would be overwhelmed in only about 25 days (plastic buckets are much worse!), vs. 400+ years for the foil bags. For the thicker 7.0 mil material, keep in mind that the heater on a regular vacuum sealer isn't quite hot enough for a solid long-term seal. What I do is put an initial seal on with the vacuum sealer, and then immediately follow-up with a wide/hot seal from my Hot Jaws.

xinkid | 06-06-2008 12:44 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by AceNZ (Post 1134099) From the selection available at Sorbent, the best ones I've found are the PAKDRY1500 and PAKVF4C materials. For example: PAKVAC3.0 -- 3.0 mil (clear) -- 3.5 to 4.5 cc/100 sq. in./24 hrs. PAKVF2.5M -- 2.5 mil -- 0.02 cc/m2/24 hrs. = 0.0013 cc/100 sq. in./24 hrs PAKCVF4C -- 5.0 mil -- 0.0006 cc/100 sq. in./24 hrs. PAKVF4PC -- 6.0 mil -- 0.0006 cc/100 sq. in./24 hrs. (same as the 5.0 mil material) PAKDRY1500 -- 7.0 mil -- < 0.0005 cc/100 sq. in./24 hrs
Thanks for the info AceNZ, I also saw this one PAKVF4 4.3 mils 5 or 6 gallon pail liner. EDIT: the page actually gives specs for the 4.3 mil as follows PAKCVF4 -- 4.3 mil -- <0.001 (0.0006 measured) cc/100 sq. in./24 hrs. The foil thickness is the same as the PAKVF4C which is 0.00035 mil This looks like a really good choice given it's size fits the 5-6 gallon buckets well. final question: if I get the 5.0 mil from sorbent to use as bucket liner and seal in the o2 absorber and rice with an iron, do I still need to seal the bucket? I might just need to close the lid on it to keep out the bugs because the liner is already sealed, no?

Squirrel Bait | 06-07-2008 12:34 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by xinkid (Post 1133607) Is this Metalized Liner for Buckets a sealable Mylar bag? The sticky had a link to this page under Mylar Bags. http://beprepared.com/images/250/FS-...rainBucket.jpg
Yes it is. In the picture the bag has been cut off to show the grain. When you get them the length is about 8-10 inches above the bucket. To seal them you put a small board accross the top of the bucket, lay the excess bag accross the board, smoothing out all the wrinkles and heat seal it with an iron. There are also units you can buy that are made to heat seal them in a similiar but more efficient manner. s

AceNZ | 06-08-2008 08:49 AM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1134443) I bought a 12 inch sealer from harbor freight for 39 bucks. Hopefully it will be here soon. It has adjustable heat settings and comes with 2 extra elements and teflon liners.
I use the Teflon-coated Hot Jaw. It's only about 6 inches wide, but it produces a robust 9/16" wide jagged-type seal (a much more reliable one than I can get with an iron). I do wider materials with multiple seals. If they're too wide for the vacuum sealer, then seal a corner first before applying the vacuum. http://www.sorbentsystems.com/hotjaw.html Quote:
Originally Posted by xinkid (Post 1134674) final question: if I get the 5.0 mil from sorbent to use as bucket liner and seal in the o2 absorber and rice with an iron, do I still need to seal the bucket? I might just need to close the lid on it to keep out the bugs because the liner is already sealed, no?
I view buckets as a physical barrier against larger bugs, rodents, nosey people, etc, not as gas barriers. So yes, putting the lid on is a good idea. But don't bother putting an oxygen absorber in the bucket, for example -- it's a total waste.

xinkid | 07-03-2008 05:13 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice I have a question on how to use the Teflon Coated HotJaw sealer. I just used it for the first time without any instructions to seal 10 6-gallon buckets of rice (about 450 lbs). I let it warm up on hi setting and the just pressed it for 1-2 seconds on the 4 mil foil bag. If I press for only 1 second, the seal is quite good, I can't possible pull it apart. But if I press it for 2 seconds, the seal looks more "cooked in" like you can really see the grooves of the hotjaws on the seal. But, I think I found out that the material around the seal start to get weaker as I start to press longer (I was able to break the bag around one seal I made by pulling) I think I cooked that one too long. i'm still unsure how long I should be pressing. Also, those o2 absorbers heat up when they're working! I'm waiting for them to suck the oxygen out and make the bags squeeze right now.

silverblood | 07-03-2008 05:54 PM
Re: Long Term Food Storage � White Rice I have that same teflon-coated hotjaw sealer from Sorbent systems. I set the hi/lo switch on hi and preheat for 10 minutes. Then when I'm ready to seal I clamp for 5 or 6 seconds, move over six inches and overlap slightly with the previous seal and repeat, until I get to the end of the bag opening. I haven't noticed any seal failures from doing it that way.

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