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philskov | 04-10-2006 11:10 PM
Orchard help. Anybody have experience with orchards? I need to start one like yesterday. Hazelnut trees start producing in 3-5 years, and are hardy from what I've heard. Nut trees are great for a protein source. I would do walnuts, but they take 7 years before producing. Apple trees can attract deer (mmm, deer sausage) and provide fruit. Just started a Peach tree, though I don't know how well they grow in NW. (easy on the peach jokes) Right now we have blueberries, marrionberries, and raspberries. I'm worried that one blueberry might have rust. Dwarf apples and a raised bed for veggies, particularly tomatoes. We have a real small yard (city plot) so we'll probably have to use my dads ten acres out in the county. One idea for starvation food is Jerusalem Artichoke (a tuber) which is nearly pure starch, it grows like a weed, and you can't get rid of it, BUT you can produce several 100lbs in a small 10' x 10' area. And it stores well (like potatoes) We got to keep brainstorming food ideas while we still can. Any good orchard books out there? Especially when growing several varieties of species? Thanks

electric-amish | 04-11-2006 12:37 AM
Re: Orchard help. In Missouri you can contact the conservation dept and get saplings for free. You can get some walnut and oak trees. I would get out to the property in the country and plant some apple trees this spring as well as black berrys and maybe a mini vineyard with 5 or six grape vines. plant what grows in your area Pears Peaches Apples Two of each mature producing trees of these and you would have A LOT of fruit for canning, Jellies ect. Good idea I wish I had control of some acres for the same purpose.

philskov | 04-11-2006 12:56 AM
Re: Orchard help. thanks for the replies/link. One problem with the country property is that its forested with 15-20 year old alders. One good thing about alders is that they prep the soil with fixable nitrogen, so whatever we put in-- they will have well prepped soil. They gotta come down before I put in the fruit/ nut trees. I live in washington and might be able to get some free saplings for salmon enhancement (we have a stream that runs thru the prop.) I guess I've been freakin out on this survival stuff since I found out my wife and I are preggers. And I've had ideas I've been prcrastnatin on. I've had some luck with kiwi, believe it or not, but kiwi takes so much nitrogen out of the ground--it has to be supplemented.

philskov | 04-11-2006 01:02 AM
Re: Orchard help. sunny- that backwoods home mag might be the first subscrption i've gotten in a long time. thanks for the link.

electric-amish | 04-11-2006 01:09 AM
Re: Orchard help. With a stand of trees you are in better shape than if it were a field. My favorite toy is a brush cutter with a tornado blade. The blade is like a circular saw with chain saw teeth. With the brush cutter I am able cut trees saplings up to 6 inches in diameter 1 inch off the ground with out stooping over holding a chainsaw. Go into the middle of the stand and clear an area 100x100 then plant. people from the road wont see your progress. Lots of hours 15-20 to cut this, weekends are perfect. Good tools make a big diff. Because its hidden from view you will get Deer and other wildlife takeing advantage of the new clearing you will be suprised how the critters like little clearings. Good project you'll love doing it.

AMforPM | 04-11-2006 04:06 AM
Re: Orchard help. It is good to visit nurseries in your area for well adapted, disease resistant varieties for your specific climate. Most state agriculture departments put out information too. Your berries sound great! People who keep horses will often give you manure free if you clean their stalls, so you can either buy bagged manure if your time is well paid now, or trade time for fertilizer. Kiwis produce a lot. You should be able to raise potatoes too. Winter squash keeps well. I don't know how sweet potatoes do in your climate, but they are nutritious and keep well. We have mostly peaches because we do not have the chill hours for apples to do well. Making big round cages out of hog wire lets you get a lot more food in a small garden by going vertical. Those sugar snap peas are a real delight. We eat as many in the garden as we carry in. :D I thought I hated turnips till I raised them. So many things that are bitter when old and half rotten in the store are delicious fresh from your garden.

philskov | 04-11-2006 11:37 AM
Re: Orchard help. Thanks for the ideas. Where do you get a "tornado" brush cutter. Not at Lowes or Home Depot, could you? Maybe at a farming co-op? Sugar snap peas do real well here. We've had variable success with tomatoes because our summers' rain/sun can vary--one year we had to come up with 100 uses for GREEN TOMATOES. But I think we can control for that if we use plastic covering. Squash does well, particularly zuchinni (can't give it away). The winter squash has been more difficult (low prod. and small sized) Excited to get going on the orchard. Thanks again.

electric-amish | 04-11-2006 12:02 PM
Re: Orchard help. Brush cutter is a STIHL FS 110 straight shaft give more power to line or blade. I love this thing big for a yard unless your commercial. The blade I use is made SHINDAIWA named a tornado. You get this going at 10000 rpms and you can really cut sprouts and small trees like a chain saw. Cut on the perscribed side to avoid kick backs and get a pair of safety glasses.

messianicdruid | 04-11-2006 12:10 PM
Re: Orchard help. I've got sixteen 2" apple trees started from seeds out of apples I bought in the store. Somebody told me you couldn't do that.

electric-amish | 04-11-2006 12:10 PM
Re: Orchard help. The Brush cutter is made by STIHL model 110The blade is by SHINDAIWA called a tornado.This thing cuts sprouts and small trees like a chainsaw. It gets up to 10000 rpms and really gets them.The whole set up cost about $385. last summer.Cut on the perscribed side so you don't get kick backs and wear safty glasses.Let me know how it goes.

electric-amish | 04-11-2006 12:11 PM
Re: Orchard help. Sorry for the double I thought I lost the post.

TheSimpleton | 04-12-2006 12:44 PM
Re: Orchard help. Straight from orchard country: Try http://www.badgersett.com/ for hazels. He's clear on the concept of growing food and not show crops. Bushes are the most prolific. Chinkipins are probably good in a pinch but better as bird-bait. "The Apple Grower" (organic) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189...lance&n=283155 Will give you a no-bs view of what you're up against. Look for his support on mason bees and other helpfuls. Grapes are tougher, stand (or prefer) poorer soils, like drought, stand heat and wet, live 100 years, and still produce. Against a building or let them climb up your alders. Here's the deal on varieties your'e likely to get: they're like purebred dogs and require a lot of care, exceptional pruning without exception, and still have shorter lifespans. That's because they're selected for fruit and not for wood. The old-timers minimized their work by taking a hit on productivity/flavor in order to have better-mannered growth and form. I agree, and you can still get these varieties. Choose ones native to your area, because there are apples for Israel and ones for Quebec, but obviously nothing grows best everywhere. If nothing else they have varying freeze requirements. There are also apples coming in from summer (the siberians) to early fall (mac) to late fall (delicious) to frost. If you want proven simple, you can take a lesser storage/flavor and get something like "Jonnafree" or "Liberty" which are bred resistant to major diseases. Pears are in general a lot tougher than apples, apricots are not to be overlooked. Crabs, Ladyapples, and Quince can be useful. Persimmons can freeze solid. Semi-dwarfs are most popular for a reason, but Standards live longer and produce more (overall) even if it takes several more years to get there. If you're not in a shoebox then dwarfs are a royal pain, too brittle and too much work per tree. Depending on your focus, you may want to grow berries, strawberries, saskatoons, or such either at first because they only have 1-2 year latency, or in between your orchard while it's starting, or because berries and "native" or "unfamiliar" types no one recognizes as food. Serviceberries are a great example, being a 30' blueberry tree (saskatoons are related) but bear very unevenly and like only certain locations. Honey locust is edible for instance, as in "locust bean gum". So are oaks. But it takes work and knowledge. For seeds, sure that's what Johnny Appleseed did, all apples have viable seeds. However, what pops up is 100% pot luck. Some may be gold medal (Delicious was a discovery) a wild apple (branchy, small, tasteless but tough) or hardly fruit at all. You won't know until they are full-sized, 15 years from now. However, you can use any of these as rootstock for grafts of trees that you like. It's hard, but no harder than a lot of things, just a skill-set and a valuable one to have for sale. I can imagine in a sudden upset, nursuries won't be able to ramp up enough stock for some years. Thanks for starting early! Unless they're by your house I recommend the invisibles: grapes, oaks, chestnuts, hazels, blackberries, etc. And if the critters eat them, eat the critters! TS

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