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Canadian-guerilla | 03-07-2010 07:52 AM
Les Stroud - Off the grid In 2006, Stroud produced a 90-minute special documenting his family's journey to building an off-the-grid home. The show, Off the Grid with Les Stroud, chronicled the process of buying property and refitting an old farm house with solar and wind power, a raincatcher and well, as well as the adjustments the Stroud family had to make to adapt to this style of living. part 1 of 7 <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9IKz_HduGWI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9IKz_HduGWI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

<SLV> | 03-07-2010 07:57 AM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid That is exactly what we are doing right now. I've been thinking a lot lately about what it would take to live without electricity. Water pumping and refrigeration are the two biggest issues. BTW... right now it is technically "illegal" to use rainwater as potable water in the State of Wisconsin. I looked into the possibility of doing rainwater catchment rather than a well. In the winter I was going to devise a way to shovel snow onto an outside firebox that would melt it into my reservoir. I still might try to make a hybrid system where I could hand-pump water into the reservoir from a point driven well if necessary. There is a rainwater advocacy group (and seller of systems) here in Wisconsin that is lobbying to get the legal ban on potable rainwater lifted.

Canadian-guerilla | 03-07-2010 08:12 AM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2214638) BTW... right now it is technically "illegal" to use rainwater as potable water in the State of Wisconsin.
one of the goals of the " nanny " state anything that can help a person(s) be independant/self-sufficient is in the crosshairs of big gov't imho

<SLV> | 03-07-2010 08:14 AM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 2214649) one of the goals of the " nanny " state anything that can help a person(s) be independant/self-sufficient is in the crosshairs of big gov't imho
I can't imagine any cops are going to knock on my door to inspect the downspouts leading to my basement. Maybe if the idea was getting to popular they would start enforcing it.

Golddust | 03-07-2010 08:24 AM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid <slv>. BTW... right now it is technically "illegal" to use rainwater as potable water in the State of Wisconsin. I looked into the possibility of doing rainwater catchment rather than a well. In the winter I was going to devise a way to shovel snow onto an outside firebox that would melt it into my reservoir. I still might try to make a hybrid system where I could hand-pump water into the reservoir from a point driven well if necessary. There is a rainwater advocacy group (and seller of systems) here in Wisconsin that is lobbying to get the legal ban on potable rainwater lifted Selling water and sewage, is a money maker for most city's. First the water then , the charge for it going into the sewer. </slv>

goldbug | 03-07-2010 08:26 AM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2214651) I can't imagine any cops are going to knock on my door to inspect the downspouts leading to my basement. Maybe if the idea was getting to popular they would start enforcing it.
Unfortunately there is leglislation pending (passed or hidden in another bill?) requiring annual home inspections and energy audits. I am sure they will be looking for scafflaws illegally using "their" rainwater. I wonder how many will comply when they make using air illegal, or heavily taxed.

jetgraphics | 03-07-2010 08:51 AM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid FWIW, I suspect that the rainwater restrictions are limited to "real estate" owned by "persons". You won't find that it is applicable to "private property" owned by "individuals". Rainwater collection into cisterns is a widespread practice, and you should have a "roof washer" (diverts the first few gallons of "dirty" water) if you implement one. (Rainwater is nature's distilled water - no heavy metal contaminants.) For human wastes, consider a dry composting toilet - see: humanure. Do not get suckered into buying compact commercial models. Several people told me that theirs did NOT function satisfactorily. In fact, you would be better served by DIY, since the major difference between success and failure is the size of the collection and composting container. ("Humanure" folks use an outside compost heap, with only bucket collection in-house.) Finally, there's graywater. Make your own "wetlands" to biofilter it, and you're done.

eyeofliberty | 03-07-2010 09:40 AM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid I love the woodstove in the outhouse, in part 6 of 7!

scholarcoon | 03-07-2010 09:55 AM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2214638) That is exactly what we are doing right now. I've been thinking a lot lately about what it would take to live without electricity. Water pumping and refrigeration are the two biggest issues.
Refrigeration is huge and I have thought about this question myself. During the winter you can just store things outside, especially if you're living up north. What about the summer? One option is building an icehouse. You harvest ice off of frozen lakes in the winter and pack it in the icehouse with sawdust. If it's built right you can have ice through the whole summer.

ruprick | 03-07-2010 10:17 AM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Quote:
Originally Posted by scholarcoon (Post 2214751) Refrigeration is huge and I have thought about this question myself. During the winter you can just store things outside, especially if you're living up north. What about the summer? One option is building an icehouse. You harvest ice off of frozen lakes in the winter and pack it in the icehouse with sawdust. If it's built right you can have ice through the whole summer.
Here is a thought I've had - and I've not put pencil to paper yet on the calculations....but an interesting thought: As most here know, I have hoarded over 7 tons of 95% copper pennies...that is quite a mass. I've thought about a shead - a small building that is super insulated - walls perhaps 1.5 - 2.0 feet thick....same for the floor and roof...... Why bother with cutting all that ice out of the lake....hauling tons of ice........just let the "thermos building" use the below zero evenings in the winters up here in Michigan take the heat away from the thermal mass.....7 tons of copper, perhaps several more tons of brine solution in holding tanks.....just open up the building in the winter and freeze everything up......a "Cold Flywheel" that will coast through summer.... Other than Silver (dont have 7 tons of that ....yet...) Copper has I think the 2nd highest coef of thermal (and electrical?) conductivity....and it is fairly dense ......would cool off quiclky I've thought the building could be 2 stage or even 3.....the core is the freezer......the next layer the fridge....the last layer the "crisper/root cellar"....each stage serving as a smaller thermal step.....a smaller "Delta T" in temperature to minimize heat thansfer. Perhaps even have electrical powered refrigeration in the inner core to make sure things stay frozen.....run it off of solar...but it would not need much if you did it right. As you passed from layer 3 ...to 2 ....to 1 "The Frozen Core" - and cold that "spilled out " as you used the building to get out what you needed - the next layer would captured the loss of the inner layer. BTW: I'm just using friendly words here for a friendly audince - in reality - heat moves from Hot to Cold - laws of thermodynamics..... I'm sure i'm not the first to have thought about this....but I'll try to put pencil to paper with the calculations. Go one more step and capture the compressor heat to heat the main house. The home would be built in a similar layered manner.....living in the core.....storage / pantry / shop / porch / etc at the edges/perimeter....anything to add more dead space and insulation between the core and the outter world. Not braggin - but i'm a mechanical engineer - and this is the stuff we were made to do....and it is interesting. We are moving in tis direction as a family - including my folks and my wife's folks....a "Waltons" compound - sharing wealth to develope an on/off grid infrastructure where we can all live.....and all share incomes....the folks have pensions and social security - I have a strong current income.....we all want to get to where was can minimize expenses + maximize shared infrastructure + maximize comfort and security.....

scholarcoon | 03-07-2010 10:38 AM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Ruprick. Intriguing idea. I like ice blocks because you can remove a block periodically and put it in the icebox in the kitchen. Doesn't water have a higher thermal mass than metals like copper?

Rip Van Winkle | 03-07-2010 11:25 AM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Yeah I would think water would be better than copper, in fact you might check the ground temps in the UP, an under ground cave might be at refrigeration temp year round already.

ruprick | 03-07-2010 02:03 PM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid You want to look at Specific Heats of materials....that is the amount of energy needed to raise or lower a specific mass by a specific temperature.....and yes, water is right up there......takes lots of energy to heat or cool it..... But, you must also consider specific gravity.....density.....water is 1.0......copper is a crap load more dense...like 8X or 10X the density......requires much less volume to have a lot more mass.....and vou want to keep voljme down....lower volume = lower surface area = lower heat transfer.... I'm not saying copper is ideal - but it has that fantastic conductivity.....directionally - this is a good idea. BTW - you want to know the average temp for a given area - look to the well water....it seeks the average temp. Like I said - I have done zero calculations - just brain storming right now.....but i think it has merit.

<SLV> | 03-07-2010 02:06 PM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Copper is toxic. When we were sorting out 100 tons per month we would wear filter masks to avoid the dust and rubber gloves when cleaning the machines. The whole "royal estate" vs "allodial title" is a ridiculous historical notion. A lot like arguments for/against a "gold standard", driving without a "drivers license", FRN "redemption", "maritime law", the "income tax", and the Constitution of the USA. SURE... all of it may be technically and legally defensible, but IT ISN'T THE REAL WORLD. Sometimes GIMmers fail to recognize that, like it or not, we live in this world system as it has been established by TPTB, and they will selectively apply the law in their own best interest. If you truly want to own property independent of any government entity then you must be prepared to DEFEND it from any conquerors. This is why tiny "rogue states" desperately want nuclear weapons. Without them they are at risk of being deposed.

Juristic Person | 03-07-2010 02:16 PM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Les Stroud is great. Nice find, CG - thanks for sharing. .

Eldorado | 03-07-2010 02:40 PM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2214651) I can't imagine any cops are going to knock on my door to inspect the downspouts leading to my basement. Maybe if the idea was getting to popular they would start enforcing it.
your IP address has been logged comrade. Expect a visit from our inspectors soon. Incidentally, your anti-american activities on the net have been also brought to our attention as well as your hoarding of essential commodities.

<SLV> | 03-07-2010 03:46 PM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Quote:
Originally Posted by <slv> (Post 2214638) That is exactly what we are doing right now.
Wow. I just started watching the video, and their "house" looks very similar to my off-grid grainery conversion. However, I only have a little more than 5 acres. http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=431007 </slv>

<SLV> | 03-07-2010 04:35 PM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Most of his problems were from poor planning and rushing things. He should have spent more time in the design of his house and scheduling the construction to begin in early spring. Additionally, although he doesn't say it, I have a feeling he was working with a fair amount of credit since he repeatedly threw a lot of money at his problems. I don't call that "getting back to being closer to nature."

<SLV> | 03-07-2010 05:05 PM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid His wind generator is pointless (nearly). You are supposed to be at least 30 meters taller than the tallest object in a 600 meter radius to get dependable air currents. Also, wind generators attached to dwelling structures produce annoying vibrations. In the winter he will want to tip his solar panels perpendicular to the ground. The low horizon of the sun combined with the snow bounce will produce about 95% efficiency, whereas if 10% of his solar panel surface is covered in snow he will lose 90% of his solar capacity. The documentary was definitely made for TV with all of the suspense and drama of the deadline and the conflicts of setbacks, but it was short on details especially regarding their decision making process. I was curious why they chose to use all wood interior walls rather than drywall. Also, I would have liked to see their completed rainwater system. All in all, the documentary emphasized the challenges that could face any construction process while at the same time failing to completely represent the immense challenge of an off-grid lifestyle.

Brio | 03-07-2010 05:33 PM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid FWIW...I grew up 'off the grid' and neither refridgeration nor piped water are a necessities, they're conveniences. We canned meat and had something called a water bucket with a handle. Don't let the idea that they are 'must haves' for survival hinder moving ahead with your plans SLV<SLV>

skid | 03-07-2010 10:42 PM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2214638) That is exactly what we are doing right now. I've been thinking a lot lately about what it would take to live without electricity. Water pumping and refrigeration are the two biggest issues.
I built a large root cellar into a north facing hill last summer with 8 inch thick concrete walls and ceiling, covered by 2-3 feet of soil on top. It has stayed just above freezing all winter. My family calls it "the big fridge". I do have a flow through vent where I can regulate temperatures a little, but so far have just left it wide open since we have had a mild winter. I'm not sure what temperature it will maintain through the summer, but am sure it will be fairly cool. This could suffice for refridgeration for most of the year for any perishables (meat, milk, eggs, etc.). I use it to store garden produce in its high humidity environment. My carrots are still crisper than the ones that can be purchased in the grocery store!

King_Squais | 03-07-2010 11:40 PM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Quote:
Originally Posted by ruprick (Post 2215081) You want to look at Specific Heats of materials....that is the amount of energy needed to raise or lower a specific mass by a specific temperature.....and yes, water is right up there......takes lots of energy to heat or cool it..... But, you must also consider specific gravity.....density.....water is 1.0......copper is a crap load more dense...like 8X or 10X the density......requires much less volume to have a lot more mass.....and vou want to keep voljme down....lower volume = lower surface area = lower heat transfer.... I'm not saying copper is ideal - but it has that fantastic conductivity.....directionally - this is a good idea. BTW - you want to know the average temp for a given area - look to the well water....it seeks the average temp. Like I said - I have done zero calculations - just brain storming right now.....but i think it has merit.
I just love the fact you have all those copper pennies. People think I'm crazy because I have a couple hundred bucks in pennies. But then I tell them about this guy on the internet who doesn't even measure the amount in face value, but in tons and they're amazed. I don't think I've ever seen you say if you found anything cool in all those tons of copper. So what's the best stuff you found? Being a penny bullionaire = win

hoarder | 03-07-2010 11:53 PM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2215307) I was curious why they chose to use all wood interior walls rather than drywall.
A lot of people just hate drywall because it's unnatural and cheap. Some of it is made in China. There were some reports of people getting sick from toxins in Chinese drywall. I went ahead and used drywall in my off grid cabin because of light refraction. If all your walls are brown wood you have to burn twice as many lights, which is not great when you're off grid. I doubt Les Stroud put that much thought into it, though. I don't think he has much skill in the building trades....or planning either for that matter.

skid | 03-08-2010 02:18 AM
Re: Les Stroud - Off the grid Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 2215884) If all your walls are brown wood you have to burn twice as many lights, which is not great when you're off grid. I
I can vouch for that. Skid manor is a post and beam house with T&G spruce 2x8's for interior walls on the perimeter walls and ceilings, and I needed all kinds of wattage to brighten the place up. Plus the previous owners seemed to like dark colours where there was drywall, and low wattage light bulbs. I'm slowly covering it all with North American sourced drywall painted Ivory so the place isn't so dim

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