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AceNZ | 03-12-2009 02:43 AM
What's yours is yours, right? I had an interesting conversation with a friend here in NZ today. He told me about a meeting he had with one of the local city Council members about an emergency generator that he had recently installed. They were talking about emergency preparedness, and he asked what the city would do in the event of a wide-scale power outage. The Councilman said they would go around to local firms and individuals with generators, claim them under an emergency declaration, and take them where they were "needed". My friend subsequently wrote to our MP to ask if that was true and if they could provide assurances that it wouldn't happen. He responded by confirming it was true, and that they could not provide any assurances. Right after that, he sold the generator in an auction. What good is it if you can't be sure that you can use it? I have no doubt that something similar would happen in the US. The moral of the story: what you think you own, you really don't. Someone bigger and stronger, including your own government, can walk in at any time and claim it for "emergency" purposes. Not just generators, but food, clothing, weapons and even housing. I'm still digesting how to deal with this -- obviously, keeping your mouth shut is Step One. But it means more than that: you should also take care to not indirectly let others know what you're doing, such as by having your lights on at night when no one else does, or having a picnic at the local park when groceries are empty.

Victor | 03-12-2009 07:43 AM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? You deal with it by getting your mind right and taking a stand on what you believe is right and what you believe is wrong. When they knock on your door to take what is yours...right then and there you have to make the decision if you are going to comply or you are not. Will you defend what you know is right for the sake of you and your family and possibly die doing it or will you comply with your "orders" and possibly live a slave to the "machine's" will. That's how you deal with it.

Glass | 03-12-2009 07:51 AM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor (Post 1621087) You deal with it by getting your mind right and taking a stand on what you believe is right and what you believe is wrong. When they knock on your door to take what is yours...right then and there you have to make the decision if you are going to comply or you are not. Will you defend what you know is right for the sake of you and your family and possibly die doing it or will you comply with your "orders" and possibly live a slave to the "machine's" will. That's how you deal with it.
yes I think that is the reality of it. This is what it means despite everything. Despite everything, at some point the decision has to be made. Still there is awareness out there, it might not be as comprehensive as someone who reads here or listens to AJ etc, but people know something is up. Their focus might be narrow like pharmaco and gm food. It might be legal system is dodgy or legislature is bought off. 911 and that whole thing. I have been very encouraged by the people I talk to, people who are very optimistic sheelplish in public are blowing me away in private with what they know. Knowledge comes from the most unusual places sometimes. ever hear of a thing called the underground?

CrufflerJJ | 03-12-2009 08:36 AM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by AceNZ (Post 1620913) The Councilman said they would go around to local firms and individuals with generators, claim them under an emergency declaration, and take them where they were "needed".
This isn't just about generators. It could also include "redistribution" of anything else you own that your (and my) benevolent government desires, for the benefit of the collective. We're talking food, meds, firearms, ammo, water. housing,.... Don't you KNOW that it's not fair to spend your money ensuring your & your family's security in hard times? There are bound to be a lot more people who can use what you've set aside, and your government will "help you" understand that. In the US, it would probably be analogous to "eminent domain" laws, in which your property is taken against your will, and you're paid a :sarc:"fair":sarc: value for it.

damoc | 03-12-2009 09:43 AM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? somebody had the executive orders posted that says gov can come and take anything they want whilst in a state of emergency. food water energy

CAVU | 03-12-2009 10:17 AM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Its an illusion that one owns anything with a powerful central govt. or a local "mob"govt mentality. Its all about what a person can control in thier possession. As mentioned above Low Profile is a must in hard times. The days of competing with the joneses is over. Past society in USA with a disaster people would willingly contribute to help the local community (many small towns still do) with what they could. Now the entitlement society (thanks to big gov indoctrine) expects a person to give to those unfortunate or force is used for the common good. Those that recieve it through force are less thankful and less appreciative than those that recieve it directly from a charitable person.

Tome | 03-12-2009 10:20 AM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by AceNZ (Post 1620913) I'm still digesting how to deal with this -- obviously, keeping your mouth shut is Step One. But it means more than that: you should also take care to not indirectly let others know what you're doing, such as by having your lights on at night when no one else does, or having a picnic at the local park when groceries are empty.
This is actually an excellent thought-provoking thread AceNZ. We should all take note that the "force" used to take our stuff will be superior so boasting about armed resistance is kinda silly and off-topic. I think AceNZ is on the right track here...concealment. :smile:

Victor | 03-12-2009 12:06 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tome (Post 1621304) This is actually an excellent thought-provoking thread AceNZ. We should all take note that the "force" used to take our stuff will be superior so boasting about armed resistance is kinda silly and off-topic. I think AceNZ is on the right track here...concealment. :smile:
How do you conceal a house? Can you produce your own fuel source from products on your own land? Can you stock enough food in your hidden celler to last 2 years? 10 years? Can you produce your own medicine? Can you obtain water from a hidden well on your property that you can access under total darkness? Can you do all this with armed troops on patrol all over your property and town. Keeping your mouth shut about your preps is a great idea. Thinking you are going to conceal "odd" movements/behaviors and stuff from the man for possibly years is a pipe dream. Your neighbors, friends, or family will eventually rat you out if threatened enough or paid enough. Good luck with your "concealment" plan.

momopanda | 03-12-2009 12:15 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Well, I don't see what's wrong with it. If your bud has a generator and other people need it, then it seems only fair that they should have it. Tell him to stop being so selfish. Do I need this? :sarc: Wow , scary report Ace. Though I just can't imagine that many of the people who had the foresight to buy stuff like generators and foodstores would just hand them over peacefully in a time of emergency.

Tn...Andy | 03-12-2009 12:26 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? I'd act as I would with any other thief....the first one to show up is in deep trouble. If the second one brings plenty of help, they might take what is mine, but it will still be rather expensive, personnel wise. Enough people take that attitude, and the govt will find themselves way short of worker bees to go collect the pollen from other folks flowers.....so to speak.

George M | 03-12-2009 01:03 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? This is an intriguing thread indeed and got me to thinking and somewhat concerned. Other than those in who we confide, who esle could possible know what we have acquired? Then the thought occurs to me that the US government is applying new requirements on banks who received TARP. Could a requirement be to analyze credit card usage and develop a list of 'survival' purchases made by credit card? Would be a good way to put IT analysts to work, while ratting out persons who had been analyzed and profiled. I thik I'll keep my credit card at rest for the time being, and of course keep my mouth shut as well.

Abouthadit | 03-12-2009 01:15 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by George M (Post 1621550) This is an intriguing thread indeed and got me to thinking and somewhat concerned. Other than those in who we confide, who esle could possible know what we have acquired? Then the thought occurs to me that the US government is applying new requirements on banks who received TARP. Could a requirement be to analyze credit card usage and develop a list of 'survival' purchases made by credit card? Would be a good way to put IT analysts to work, while ratting out persons who had been analyzed and profiled. I thik I'll keep my credit card at rest for the time being, and of course keep my mouth shut as well.
very recent legislation required all credit card transactions to be sent to the IRS so you can read between the lines.

CrufflerJJ | 03-12-2009 01:16 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by George M (Post 1621550) Then the thought occurs to me that the US government is applying new requirements on banks who received TARP. Could a requirement be to analyze credit card usage and develop a list of 'survival' purchases made by credit card? Would be a good way to put IT analysts to work, while ratting out persons who had been analyzed and profiled. I thik I'll keep my credit card at rest for the time being, and of course keep my mouth shut as well.
Not just TARP recipients. Assume that EVERYTHING you buy with non-cash is tracked/recorded/filed-away. Of course, assume that everything you post online is recorded, too.....:bawling:

End of Hope | 03-12-2009 01:35 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1621472) I'd act as I would with any other thief....the first one to show up is in deep trouble. If the second one brings plenty of help, they might take what is mine, but it will still be rather expensive, personnel wise. Enough people take that attitude, and the govt will find themselves way short of worker bees to go collect the pollen from other folks flowers.....so to speak.
And a scorched earth plan to go with it - the government wants your hardware, food, fuel? Never mind the SqWAT team, better call the fire department.

George M | 03-12-2009 02:53 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1621578) Not just TARP recipients. Assume that EVERYTHING you buy with non-cash is tracked/recorded/filed-away. Of course, assume that everything you post online is recorded, too.....:bawling:
Agreed. Though my suspicions increase when gov't. has 'legal' leverage.

Saul Mine | 03-12-2009 10:03 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1621472) I'd act as I would with any other thief....the first one to show up is in deep trouble. If the second one brings plenty of help, they might take what is mine, but it will still be rather expensive, personnel wise. Enough people take that attitude, and the govt will find themselves way short of worker bees to go collect the pollen from other folks flowers.....so to speak.
The difference is that a thief will come while you are prepared. The officials are cowards and will only take your stuff when you are unable to defend yourself. For instance maybe you get flooded or something; the officials come around to assess the damage and say "Gee, look at all this abandoned property." Or else your neighbors will band against you and the officials come when they are sure they have plenty of support. That's why you need community ties. Trying to survive alone doesn't work well.

Twisted Avatar | 03-12-2009 10:22 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? 1 Attachment(s) YOU THINK YOU CAN TAKE MY PROPERTY IN THE HOUR OF GREATEST NEED??? FINE........

Mantokir | 03-12-2009 10:47 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by Abouthadit (Post 1621576) very recent legislation required all credit card transactions to be sent to the IRS so you can read between the lines.
Soo glad I still use cash.... I never did like credit cards and this just confirms it even more.

Old Steel | 03-13-2009 01:12 AM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor (Post 1621087) You deal with it by getting your mind right and taking a stand on what you believe is right and what you believe is wrong. When they knock on your door to take what is yours...right then and there you have to make the decision if you are going to comply or you are not. Will you defend what you know is right for the sake of you and your family and possibly die doing it or will you comply with your "orders" and possibly live a slave to the "machine's" will. That's how you deal with it.
Ummm, no. Actually you need to make that decision right now. Waiting until the spur of the moment will catch you off guard. Then it will be too late because any hesitation on your part will be to your undoing. In fact make all your important decisions right now so when the time comes you are on board in that instant. The time for thinking about it is a done deal.

reviver | 03-13-2009 02:13 AM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Steel (Post 1622771) Ummm, no. Actually you need to make that decision right now. The time for thinking about it is a done deal.
Absolutely... You will either stand...or not. Time to make up your mind... Weigh your balance. But that is what Victor said. Isn't it. Understand your true choices...

Twisted Avatar | 03-13-2009 08:05 AM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? The Time of words and discourse is soon coming to an end....... It will be replaced by ACTIONS AND DEEDS. Be ready. T

Dave | 03-13-2009 09:47 AM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Why not have a cheap little Genset, keep your out of date food preps, and other old supplies and store them for this very reason. Let them have the garbage so they think they pillaged your supplies while you store your better things out of site. If you are unwilling to take a stand like TN_Andy that is. Otherwise I agree with Andy's assessment. Dave

Twisted Avatar | 03-13-2009 10:00 AM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 1623234) Why not have a cheap little Genset, keep your out of date food preps, and other old supplies and store them for this very reason. Let them have the garbage so they think they pillaged your supplies while you store your better things out of site. If you are unwilling to take a stand like TN_Andy that is. Otherwise I agree with Andy's assessment. Dave
The only problem with that is .........9 times out of 10. THE THEIVES ALWAYS COME BACK TO GET WHAT THE MISSED ON THE FIRST GO ROUND. If everybody else is suffering yet somehow you maintain......cleary you have provisions that you need to be 'liberated" of. Complience will get you nothing except a stronger enemy that you must defeat. T

Dave | 03-13-2009 02:04 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1623259) Complience will get you nothing except a stronger enemy that you must defeat.
You are of course assuming I would turn over an operational genset, untainted food, and good supplies :) Sabotage sometimes has a better effect than a frontal assault. When you are dealing with a larger opponent one of your few weapons is demoralization. Just be ready for them to come back, and when they do, you shouldn't be there unless you are prepared to repel them. Otherwise, sabotage them more, death by a thousand cuts. You can't confront a superior force conventionally, you must use your smaller size and mobility to your advantage. Deprive them of the kill, confound them, and cut them every inch of the way; eventually they will collapse under their own weight. Dave

Twisted Avatar | 03-13-2009 02:06 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 1623687) You are of course assuming I would turn over an operational genset, untainted food, and good supplies :) Sabotage sometimes has a better effect than a frontal assault. When you are dealing with a larger opponent one of your few weapons is demoralization. Just be ready for them to come back, and when they do, you shouldn't be there unless you are prepared to repel them. Otherwise, sabotage them more, death by a thousand cuts. You can't confront a superior force conventionally, you must use your smaller size and mobility to your advantage. Deprive them of the kill, confound them, and cut them every inch of the way; eventually they will collapse under their own weight. Dave
Brother D I like the way you think. Thank God you are one OUR SIDE :ok: T

Abouthadit | 03-13-2009 02:10 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1623259) The only problem with that is .........9 times out of 10. THE THEIVES ALWAYS COME BACK TO GET WHAT THE MISSED ON THE FIRST GO ROUND. If everybody else is suffering yet somehow you maintain......cleary you have provisions that you need to be 'liberated" of. Complience will get you nothing except a stronger enemy that you must defeat. T
this makes a good argument for the heads-on-pikes defense. they see those, they will lose their taste for your stuff.

RealityCheck | 03-13-2009 02:34 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 1623687) You are of course assuming I would turn over an operational genset, untainted food, and good supplies :)
Good point. They can have all the special heirloom cast, er, I mean "pinto beans" they want. :wink: http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/n...thumb1_4nq.jpg

Twisted Avatar | 03-13-2009 02:40 PM
Re: What's yours is yours, right? 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Abouthadit (Post 1623700) this makes a good argument for the heads-on-pikes defense. they see those, they will lose their taste for your stuff.
I love universal lauguage tools......

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