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Dave Thomas | 02-27-2009 05:02 PM
Lead solder. Yeah, I know this isn't as important as Beans or bullets. But I'm starting to notice Lead solder getting more and more scarce as I shop at electronics places. I remember buying a 1lb spool of Kester 60/40 for about 17 bucks back in 2002, now I'm paying close to 25 bucks. I'm also starting to see alot of RoHS type solders hit the market, which are bit cheaper. I've tried lead free solder for a project I was working on, but I was not impressed. It must have been the first run of the stuff. The wetting characteristics of the stuff was horrible. Midway through the project I went back to lead solder. I guess I'm just not used to it. This was 4 years ago too, I don't know if they have improved the wetting capability of lead free solder yet, but I'm skeptical. I'm also sure that the USA will adopt a RoHS type of policy like Europe has in the near future, so there will be this last hurrah of lead solder sales in the US, just like the ammo purchases we're seeing. I'd make sure you pick up a few spools, just to have some good old fashioned lead solder, before it's verboten/astronomically high priced. One or two spools aught to be enough to take care of any electronics/electrical jobs you might encounter in the next 20 years. If you're a radio/electronics guy you've probably got a buttload of spools anyway.

damoc | 02-27-2009 05:09 PM
Re: Lead solder. i cant even find it now and this new lead free stuff just aint the same.

Tn...Andy | 02-27-2009 05:13 PM
Re: Lead solder. I was in a stained glass supply place one day, and they have the old 50/50 I used to use all the time for copper pipe. I loaded up.

Fullpower | 02-27-2009 05:15 PM
Re: Lead solder. Want to hear something interesting? 60/40 rosin core ( lead/ tin ratio) forms STABLE joints on copper wire. stable over more than a century. The LEAD FREE solders in use currently, as well as having very poor joint flow, and nearly nonexistant wetting characteristics, apear to crystallize and weaken their connections over time. The hght tin solders are also known to grow " whiskers" on close traces of circuit boards, and short out to adjacent conductors. The short story is that solid state electronic devices built in the 60's, 70's and early eighties may well still be functional in a hundred years, but the more modern equipment built lately ( including automotive electronics) is likely to be landfill in 20 years. or less. Military electronics are using SILVER based solder, and are built to a much more durable standard than consumer grade crap that we buy. . . I use silver solder for most of my work, unless I need low temperature eutectic solder for surface mount stuff. Best bet is to stock up on anything you might need NOW.

Dave Thomas | 02-27-2009 05:17 PM
Re: Lead solder. Quote:
Originally Posted by damoc (Post 1598082) i cant even find it now and this new lead free stuff just aint the same.
Yeah it was kind of surprising, it had always been in the back of my mind. I have a few spools, it's one of those things you always say to yourself the next time you're buying stuff. "I'll pick up a few pounds next time." Well then about two years go by, and you're staring at the stuff that looks like it's been picked over a bunch. You go to the solder area and there is about two whole spools of lead left! And the rest of the solder is in this new dayglo green packaging, with all sorts of RoHS stuff stamped all over it. Kind of caught me by surprise. I'm gonna try some of the new RoHS stuff to see if it has improved any, but in the mean time I'm gonna probably stash a few more of the leaded spools away just incase. You can still find plenty of suppliers online. I just started noticing this at the local electronics shop. That was the eye opener.

Dave Thomas | 02-27-2009 05:20 PM
Re: Lead solder. Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 1598100) The hght tin solders are also known to grow " whiskers" on close traces of circuit boards, and short out to adjacent conductors.
Yikes, I need to read up about this. I guess it makes sense for consumer electronics anyway, no one uses anything over 5 years anyway. But for things like radios and amps, I don't want them growing "dendrites" in 10 years! I wonder how this is gonna affect plumbing/plumbers?

Fatboy | 02-27-2009 07:11 PM
Re: Lead solder. "I wonder how this is gonna affect plumbing/plumbers?" Most domestic (drinking) water is/has been done with lead free solder for years now. Some codes may still allow the use of 50/50 solder for use in the heating system. I have not purchased any recently but it was getting up near $9.00 a pound, it is probably less expensive now than it was 6 months ago due to the decrease in the price of the components, hopefully all the expensive stuff has been sold by now and replaced with new stock at a lower price.

Professur | 02-27-2009 07:26 PM
Re: Lead solder. For lead free solder, you do need to look at different fluxes. Personally, I've got a few (few?) 2lbs bars of the type used for soldering gutters and copper roofs. In a pinch, that'll serve.

hypervel | 02-27-2009 07:26 PM
Re: Lead solder. Get to Grainger now if you want that Kester. On sale for $5.xx IIRC-we ordered some only a couple of days ago. 50+ rolls (I got 4) Automotive elex guy.....me..... The second cheapest I could find was at Radio Shack for about $13. On the "bad" solder....I think GM has been using it for years....at least whoever supplied their wiper motors. There was a run of repairs over 3-5 years centering on bad solder conns on the wiper control board. Don't see it much any more. Weird that you brought this up. GRAINGER... I don't have a link on me....BTW, to further kill a horse- I REALLY think lead is going to be regulated heavily and directly soon. Get yours now!

Saul Mine | 02-27-2009 08:54 PM
Re: Lead solder. Lead is already illegal in most countries. Except maybe for bullets and tire weights.

woodman | 02-27-2009 10:06 PM
Re: Lead solder. I use the Oatey lead free silver solder for sweating my copper plumbing joints. No problems so far, seems to work great. Has held up well for a few years on my heating system. I kinda enjoy sweating pipes. Go figure....

RossL | 02-27-2009 10:31 PM
Re: Lead solder. I'm not a plumber. This commentary doesn't apply to water lines. Printed circuit boards have been my business for long long time. The new solder sucks. It is OK for high volume manufacturing where recently produced parts with no oxidation on the leads are soldered to new circuit boards that have no oxidation on the lands. Any oxidation on old parts or six month old circuit boards and the new fluxes cant deal with it. Politicans have screwed us again. Mebbe Al Gore can invent a new flux. Removing lead from solder didn't benefit any of us. It benefitted certain corporations and political entities. It is making every electronic device more expensive and more unreliable.

Jimfrancisco | 02-28-2009 04:50 AM
Re: Lead solder. Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Mine (Post 1598510) Lead is already illegal in most countries. Except maybe for bullets and tire weights.
You can buy all the lead you want, and all the tin you want, and all the flux you want... both low melting points, make your own. I've been doing it for years to make solder for old (120 year old) pipe connections that have split due to freezing. Melt it up, cast into a block, and if you need it for electronic stuff then just use a knife to shave a sliver off the block.

Bill843 | 02-28-2009 06:16 AM
Re: Lead solder. Quote:
Originally Posted by RossL (Post 1598712) ...Printed circuit boards have been my business for long long time. The new solder sucks. It is OK for high volume manufacturing where recently produced parts with no oxidation on the leads are soldered to new circuit boards that have no oxidation on the lands. Any oxidation on old parts or six month old circuit boards and the new fluxes cant deal with it. ...
An uncle is an electrical engineer at Boeing and said the same things several years ago. The non-lead stuff just does not work nearly as well as what it's supposed to replace. (On the one hand, the "tin whiskers" phenomenon is f*cking AMAZING when you understand it--but how it happens now is just bad news) Also (did you know) that when the European lead ban was approved, the first two exceptions granted were to military agencies, and second to telecommunications equipment. They are all exempt from the lead/mercury/cadmium/chromium electronics ban. -end-

nub | 03-01-2009 09:53 AM
Re: Lead solder. I buy mine(the 50/50 blend) by the 50# box , it's now roughly $8.00 a LB. The solder that comes in the box is 2' long 7/16" triangle shape. We go through about 400 Lbs. a year....not uncommon for a decent sized HVAC & sheet metal co.

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