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PALLADIUM | 08-12-2009 12:57 PM
An event at my grocery store An event at my grocery store 10-8-2009 TeddiRevolution http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread490340/pg1 A severe storm came through my town last night and it knocked out power in my local grocery store for a bit. This was no big deal, as it has happened before. There was, however, a bigger problem we discovered very quickly: The credit and debit no longer worked, and checks couldn't be used. Food stamps and WIC did not work either. Coincidentally, there was a rush of people in the store at this same time, and the lines began to clog very fast. People in line joked about how anyone ever did this 100 years ago, things like that. Everyone figured the glitch would be ironed out momentarily. Since nothing else worked, those people who were stuck were forced to use the store ATM that would charge them to withdraw money. They weren't happy but they got in line and started to get the cash they needed. Until the ATM froze up. Now the fake smiles and annoyed chatter had disappeared and reality struck for a lot of people, they had no way to access their money, they had no way to pay for their food. Those who unloaded their carts were completely stuck and the ones waiting in line didn't want to give up their spot to go to the bank. People became vocal very quickly. "There's no way the whole system can go at once!" "What the Hell do I do now?" "I'm not leaving without this food." People started pointing fingers at the cashiers, THEY must have done something. When the manager tried to explain it was not the cashier's doing, the company was to blame for making such a flawed system. Soon enough, with no knowledge of how the system actually worked, people began blaming others for buying too many groceries in the first place. In the span of a few minutes, perfectly calm, content people turned on those around them and eventually each other because food and money weren't immediately available to them. About that time the manager announced that the debit and checking was back up, and the ATM unfroze and people got their money. All of the things mentioned could have been causes for the glitch, but how the customers reacted was stunning to me. I can't say what would have happened if the problem hadn't resolved itself, but I know that in a situation where other variables were involved such as a national crisis or mass panic, there would have been chaos. If people react in such a way when a small wrench is thrown into the works, what reactions would come from a multitude of things going wrong all at once? After what I saw last night, I wouldn't want to be near a public place should the house of cards topple over, and I don't recommend anyone planning a trip to the store that day.

Heimdhal | 08-12-2009 01:02 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store a pure example of classic group behaviour in a perceived "emergency". This speaks volumes for post-shtf society. Can you imagine how crowds will act when they find out some one is a 'hoarder'? "How dare they have all that food while I have nothing. Its not right! I only have 3 days of food here! Some one needs to make them share it with the rest of us! We dont have food because of people like them!"

TechGuy | 08-12-2009 01:07 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store This was the reaction of people who knew this was a temporay LOCAL issue. Can you imagine the thought process when they figure out that their inability to purchase food is a PERMANENT, NATIONAL issue? Katy bar the doors!

Fullpower | 08-12-2009 01:54 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store "How dare they have all that food while I have nothing. Its not right! I only have 3 days of food here! Some one needs to make them share it with the rest of us! We dont have food because of people like them!" The Earth will one day be littered with the dried remains of those formerly expressing such sentiment.

Ash_Williams | 08-12-2009 02:07 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
The Earth will one day be littered with the dried remains of those formerly expressing such sentiment.
Dried, or fried? Mmmmmm.

momopanda | 08-12-2009 02:13 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1864918) a pure example of classic group behaviour in a perceived "emergency". This speaks volumes for post-shtf society. Can you imagine how crowds will act when they find out some one is a 'hoarder'? "How dare they have all that food while I have nothing. Its not right! I only have 3 days of food here! Some one needs to make them share it with the rest of us! We dont have food because of people like them!"
Exactly. And it's the best reason for keeping your GD mouth shut about any prepping you do. I've posted this before- when you tell others about stockpiling food and supplies, they file that information away and will recall it when it suits them. They will be on your doorstep, or on the phone to the Department of Fair Sharing's whistleblower hotline before you can say Jack Robinson. It may be noble to try to persuade others to be prepared, but realize the risk you run by doing so, especially outside the immediate family. At the very least, if you talk to someone about it, and they don't get on board with it, go out of your way to make them believe that you've changed your ways and realize how silly you were. As an aside, everyone talks about hiding their PM's , but you should also think to hide away long term storage foods. A basement crawl space, a false closet, anywhere. A big ole food pantry is like leaving your PM's on the kitcehn table. Worse even. If and when people come calling uninvited. And go easy on the 'there'll be bodies littering my porch ' rhetoric. There will always come a time when you are either outgunned , outnumbered , out of the house , or just out of luck. Also - Any LT type prep stuff you purchase on line for your preps will eventually land in the hands of the AntiHoarding task force, so it would be wise to cash and carry canned goods and stuff as they come on sale at the local market and squirrel them away. TnAndy recommended a novel a week or so back and I read it(can't recall the name) and it further served to hilight this outlook. Okay, tin foil hat off now (and hidden where no one else can get at it when they start the brain scanning!:biggrin:). Moving on - imagine what happens if something occurred to make even the cash unacceptable at the supermarket in the OP. Some kind of bank holiday and rumors of a devaluation oughhta do it. Never mind the machines and stuff going down. Imagine how quickly it degenrates if people start mistrusting even the currency. best to not have to head to that market is damn straight.

SilverCity | 08-12-2009 02:43 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Thanks Momo. That brought to mind an old Twilight Zone episode about a neighborhood that received a warning of nuclear attack and how quickly people started turning on the one family that prepared. And the aftermath when it turned out to be a false alarm and was all over... I wonder what thoughts were on the minds of those people in the grocery store. Did they change their way of thinking and vow to prepare for next time it happens? Or go home and forget about it the next day?

Heimdhal | 08-12-2009 02:45 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store You are right on all points MoMo. I've witnessed similar during the spree of major hurricanes we had a few years ago. In '04 I was working for wal-mart just a little out of high school when they hit. I worked the loading docks. The canned food and bottled water was off the shelf before the thing landed. The day after, there were lines down the parking lot(and this is one of the biggest supper wal marts in south florida). We didnt get a shippment of water in for a day or two. People were going CRAZY at the thought. Mind you, most of the city water was still running and unaffected, but the fear and panic was the driving force. Some places had contaminated water though. When we finaly got water, we wheeld the pallats out to the sales floor. Mind you, these were pallets of bottled water stacked some 8 or 9 feet high, weighing, In our guess, well over 600 pounds. When a pallet jack gets rolling with that kind of weight on it, it is NOT an easy beast to stop. People were swamping us, some almost getting run over by us, and almost taking us with them. When we finaly got them to where they needed to go, the crowds were restless and pushing and shoving and fighting. Little old ladies were getting pushed out of the way by middle aged men and women. They tried pulling the water off the pallet, but i was shrink wrapped. I kind you NOT, the SECOND we had the shrink wrap slightly cut off, the pallet was empty, people were laying on the floor and Im pretty sure some EMT"s showed up. It went on like that for 2 straight days!!!! These were the lucky people. Our walmart had a lot of pull, so they had other shippments diverted to our store. I cant even imagine what the other stores were like. It was then I learned another VERY valuable lesson on stocking up AHEAD of an emergency.

momopanda | 08-12-2009 02:59 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1865087) I've witnessed similar during the spree of major hurricanes we had a few years ago. .
And keep it in mind furthermore that that was in South Florida, an area where you are prone to hurricanes, and common sense should dictate that you have at least some preparations set aside, AND I'm sure that the media and weatherman were all over the place warning these people for a week or more in advance, and still......... Imagine New York City or LA? Imagine something sudden and unpredicted by weathermen or broadcasters, such as the EMP in the book andy mentioned? I don't care how well you think you know your coworkers or even some friends. People'll do funny shit when they get hungry. So whilst ya got out that vaccuum sealer, run it over your mouth too!:bear_thumb:

wondering | 08-12-2009 03:34 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1864918) a pure example of classic group behaviour in a perceived "emergency". This speaks volumes for post-shtf society. Can you imagine how crowds will act when they find out some one is a 'hoarder'? "How dare they have all that food while I have nothing. Its not right! I only have 3 days of food here! Some one needs to make them share it with the rest of us! We dont have food because of people like them!"
That is something I worry about often. We are not completely prepared but I know we are more prepared than, say our neighbors. I can hear them moaning about how it is not fair that we have more than them and WE ARE OBLIGATED TO SHARE WITH THEM. I am very confident that if the tables were turned, they would not share with us. So those of you that are preparing, make as little noise as possible about it unless you are prepared to share with more than just those you told. Good luck all.

Heimdhal | 08-12-2009 03:35 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by momopanda (Post 1865124) And keep it in mind furthermore that that was in South Florida, an area where you are prone to hurricanes, and common sense should dictate that you have at least some preparations set aside, AND I'm sure that the media and weatherman were all over the place warning these people for a week or more in advance, and still......... Imagine New York City or LA? Imagine something sudden and unpredicted by weathermen or broadcasters, such as the EMP in the book andy mentioned? I don't care how well you think you know your coworkers or even some friends. People'll do funny shit when they get hungry. So whilst ya got out that vaccuum sealer, run it over your mouth too!:bear_thumb:
Oh, I agree completley. It really did amaze me considering we had, like you said, all been told to stock at least 4-7 days of medical and food stuffs. My family was always pretty good about 'getting ready' and did a lot of camping in our day, so we didnt even miss a beat. I have a tendency to be a little nosey when I go into a neighbors house, like if our kids are playing or something. The first thing I try to look at is if their pantry is stocked or not. Im not SUPER nosey, I just like to get an idea of how people think. I even had one neighbor, a good friend of mine, a Brazilian fella, with a daughter just a few months older than my own, go on and on about food shortages coming to america, and how prepping was a good idea, etc. I just shook my head and said "yeah, you're right, but it soooo expensive, yadda yadda" Then I look at his pantry, hes got about 5 cans of beans in there and some spices, then the rest is all cleaning supplies, no joke. When I mentioned it, he said to me: "Oh, well, we dont stock food, its no good that way. When we want something for dinner, we just run out to the grocer and get it so we can have it fresh. It taste much better that way."

Heimdhal | 08-12-2009 03:39 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by wondering (Post 1865202) That is something I worry about often. We are not completely prepared but I know we are more prepared than, say our neighbors. I can hear them moaning about how it is not fair that we have more than them and WE ARE OBLIGATED TO SHARE WITH THEM. I am very confident that if the tables were turned, they would not share with us. So those of you that are preparing, make as little noise as possible about it unless you are prepared to share with more than just those you told. Good luck all.
My greatest fear in it all is that same thing as well. Im one of the more armed people in the neighborhood. I dont hide that as much as I do my PM's and preps. I've got far more lead than PM"s anyways. But what I worry is that the neighbors we do know that dont prep wort a damn(see above post), all have kids. And if they see my wife, my mother, my daughter and I NOT in need of food they are going to get into that mind set of "Well, my kid needs to eat and they have all the food." Hungry people do irrational things. Hungry people with starving kids do down right insane things out of desperation. I couldnt bear to watch some of the 2 year olds in this neighborhood going hungry, but at the same time I cant risk my own 2 year olds life. This is where the conundrum comes into play. I want to tell people to at least stock 2-3 months worth of food, even if just for their kids, but at the same time dont want them to know Im doing the same.

wondering | 08-12-2009 03:43 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by momopanda (Post 1865022) Moving on - imagine what happens if something occurred to make even the cash unacceptable at the supermarket in the OP. Some kind of bank holiday and rumors of a devaluation oughhta do it. Never mind the machines and stuff going down. Imagine how quickly it degenrates if people start mistrusting even the currency. best to not have to head to that market is damn straight.
You know it might even be wise to act as your neighbors are acting. Go after the supplies at the stores or where ever to look normal. Act like you too are hurting and if they ask to share, only share what is being supplied to your neighbors too. Act as if you have nothing and do not have them in your home.

Ash_Williams | 08-12-2009 03:47 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Start knocking doors right away and asking everyone else to share.

Fullpower | 08-12-2009 03:54 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store I buy a lot of peanut butter, granola bars, and oatmeal. I dont eat peanut buter, but if desperate people show up on my porch, with hungry children, I can at least toss a jar of peanut butter, and maybe a box of crackers or or a pound of oats to them, and with that bid them a sincere "Good Luck, and now, please leave my premises quietly" speech.

wondering | 08-12-2009 03:54 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1865207) I want to tell people to at least stock 2-3 months worth of food, even if just for their kids, but at the same time dont want them to know Im doing the same.
Please read my last post. Act like the rest of your neighbors. You can tell them that you heard that you should be stocking up but times are hard so it is difficult to buy much. This indicates that you are not able to do much. Do not point out great sales (often if you can help it). You are supposed to watch out for your brother but even in the Bible the tale of the virgins waiting for the bridegroom. Some were foolish and were more fixed upon their looks and didn't get enough oil for the night to be prepared. The other virgins were prepared. When the bridegroom came, he took those who were prepared. Religious or not, that story shows you that you can only do so much. They were clearly prepared. The other virgins saw this and still did nothing. They lost out. Now on the bigger note, you would need to look at the trade off of playing the part of being needy. What conditions would you have to accept (the chip, search of your home, etc.) to blend in. You may be better off acting paranoid and not wanting to leave your house. Who knows? Biggest thing, tell them nothing of what you have.

thorgrim | 08-12-2009 04:39 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1865087) It was then I learned another VERY valuable lesson on stocking up AHEAD of an emergency.
I bet 95% of the people involved in this will not change a thing concerning there level of preparedness.

11S11ver | 08-12-2009 04:59 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Very sobering reminder of what we face, thanks for sharing. Just like the guy who has the generator. When the power goes out for an extended period of time, everyone looks at him like they're entitled to his electricity.

Abouthadit | 08-12-2009 05:05 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1864918) a pure example of classic group behaviour in a perceived "emergency". This speaks volumes for post-shtf society. Can you imagine how crowds will act when they find out some one is a 'hoarder'? "How dare they have all that food while I have nothing. Its not right! I only have 3 days of food here! Some one needs to make them share it with the rest of us! We dont have food because of people like them!"
That's about the time that I show them my Yugo M70AB1 underfolder.

Heimdhal | 08-12-2009 05:08 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by Abouthadit (Post 1865358) That's about the time that I show them my Yugo M70AB1 underfolder.
Thats going to be a hard lesson for the 'masses' to learn at first. Which is why if it ever came to that, said masses would be SCREAMING for anti hording AND anti-gun legistlation. How dare those that prepared shoot at them that are entitled and did not! Its not right, its not fair! Some one must stop them at once! OUr children are starving and they are shooting at us! EDIT: Off topic, but just an FYI About, I did the drop free bolt mod on that Norinco and started stocking up on Tapco 20 rounders. Makes the mag changes REAL easy. Got an extended mag release coming in the mail too.

shortstack | 08-12-2009 05:29 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1865207) My greatest fear in it all is that same thing as well. Im one of the more armed people in the neighborhood. I dont hide that as much as I do my PM's and preps. I've got far more lead than PM"s anyways. But what I worry is that the neighbors we do know that dont prep wort a damn(see above post), all have kids. And if they see my wife, my mother, my daughter and I NOT in need of food they are going to get into that mind set of "Well, my kid needs to eat and they have all the food." Hungry people do irrational things. Hungry people with starving kids do down right insane things out of desperation. I couldnt bear to watch some of the 2 year olds in this neighborhood going hungry, but at the same time I cant risk my own 2 year olds life. This is where the conundrum comes into play. I want to tell people to at least stock 2-3 months worth of food, even if just for their kids, but at the same time dont want them to know Im doing the same.
I read once that in China, during the great famine of 1951 (or was it 1953), starving families would swap children. Because they found it was too difficult to eat thier own children. I never tell neighbors about my preps of any kind. There is just NO upside to this what so ever. We don't have a neighborhood watch or anything like that, as all my neighbors fit the panic ridden shoppers of the OP's article to a tee. Now lets say there was a group of like minded folks in my hood, and we all had equally adequate preps for arguments sake. All it takes is one spouce or child of one of these families to open their mouth, and now the whole neighborhood would know which families were the "horders" Unless this neighborhood group were ALL your immediate neighbors, then you are effectively alone. I fear the only solution is too hide all food preps even from my children. Worse, lets say that 2 weeks into it, a group of neighborhood wives and small children show up at your doorstep, having gone many days without food. Pray you are not baking bread that day. Lets say you only eat pre-cooked prepared foods like MRE's or Mountain House, so there is little to no smell during food prep. After two weeks, you will look well fed and healthy compared to your neighbors. What then, stop answering the door?

MNeagle | 08-12-2009 05:38 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store That's when having some baggy clothing will come in handy...

gbgunner | 08-12-2009 05:51 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Worse, lets say that 2 weeks into it, a group of neighborhood wives and small children show up at your doorstep, having gone many days without food. Pray you are not baking bread that day. Lets say you only eat pre-cooked prepared foods like MRE's or Mountain House, so there is little to no smell during food prep. After two weeks, you will look well fed and healthy compared to your neighbors. What then, stop answering the door?
I've thought of this. It's probably a good thing. That way we are forced to ration our preps. We can still eat. And have the security of food. But just eat one meal a day. We'll lose weight. Look at least a little skinnier. And manage to stretch out preps. Gonna have to observe and then act and talk just like them.

SilverCity | 08-12-2009 05:54 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store QUOTE: Worse, lets say that 2 weeks into it, a group of neighborhood wives and small children show up at your doorstep, having gone many days without food. Pray you are not baking bread that day. Lets say you only eat pre-cooked prepared foods like MRE's or Mountain House, so there is little to no smell during food prep. After two weeks, you will look well fed and healthy compared to your neighbors. What then, stop answering the door? UNQUOTE Hmmm, baggy clothes...My wife and I plan to show up for food hand-outs at the bread line, so as to minimize suspicion. That is, as long as the bread line doesn't lead to H1N1 clinic/FEMA camps...

Heimdhal | 08-12-2009 05:56 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store just get REALLY fat before hand :) I carry my preps with me!

Real Money Now | 08-12-2009 06:24 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store This illustrates why you never share...the requests will never stop...and a "no" after a "yes" will result in violence against you... <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xPYwmHiseXQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xPYwmHiseXQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Twisted Avatar | 08-12-2009 06:40 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 1865240) I buy a lot of peanut butter, granola bars, and oatmeal. I dont eat peanut buter, but if desperate people show up on my porch, with hungry children, I can at least toss a jar of peanut butter, and maybe a box of crackers or or a pound of oats to them, and with that bid them a sincere "Good Luck, and now, please leave my premises quietly" speech.
And you provided them all the information they need for one of two things to happen: The Charity family will return with the "starving babies" for a second helping Or worse The charity family is attacked by somebody who has nothing and in fear of there life the blurt out I GOT THE FOOD FROM SO AND SO YOU SHOULD TRY THERE TOO!!! See what type of pandoras box gets opened?? One act of kindness can bring the zombie hordes down on you. But what if you truly want to do the "right thing" how can you get that food to the needy?? Contact your local church or some charity organization and donate said items there that way when knock at the door comes you can say with a straight face: I heard St Marks church had some food and supplies donated you better hurry up and get over there quick!! You did the right thing(gave help when needed) but you able to do in a manner where your preps have not been compromised. Dilemma solved. BUT NEVER ........I REPEAT NEVER ,UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, ARE YOU TO DESPENSE CHARITY AT YOUR DOORSTEP. EVER!!!! YOU MAKE YOURSELF A MARKED MAN.

Tn...Andy | 08-12-2009 07:11 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by momopanda (Post 1865124) So whilst ya got out that vaccuum sealer, run it over your mouth too!:bear_thumb:
Best thought of the thread !

brewer | 08-12-2009 07:13 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Hmmm, I've read this old dog and pony topic on survival forums for about 10 years now. It's interesting to see the same response thru out the decade. Educate your family,friends and close neighbors the best you can. Then just cover your ass... you tried to help folks, now I quess they have to learn the hard way. Maybe the folks you tried to help early on will start to listen to you. Good luck

mick silver | 08-12-2009 07:16 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store when we had the big wind storm here last fall we were at are store to close it down because we didnt have power. i am just glad i have my gun on that day i dont know if me an my wife would of get the place close down or rob or killed ......... people are nuts when you cant buy food beer cigs an gas

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momopanda | 08-12-2009 08:23 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1865483) [B] And you provided them all the information they need for one of two things to happen: The Charity family will return with the "starving babies" for a second helping Or worse
Yep, and another thing. I don't want to beat the book to death , but reading stuff like this helps you think of stuff that you may not have considered (btw , was called One Second After, and imo had a lot of flaws in it as well, but that's neither here nor there). Always read these things when I hear about them. Gives you stuff to consider, as well as being a damn good read sometimes. No matter how well thought out you have it, there's probably a bunch of things you never considered. The author points out the ramifications of no more pharmaceuticals. What, like 20% or more of this population is medicated in one way or another. All those coworkers and acquaintences are likely well represented and you are completely unaware of it. They run the gamut from some who are just unhappy or needy, some depressed maybe, some with minor chemical imbalances, to others unable to function in current society without them. Antidepressants, painkillers, uppers, downers, sleeping pills, whatever, and all these legalized drugs. What happens when all these people not only have no more access to their fix, but are actually suffering withdrawal from it after years of having not functioned without it? That great guy that coaches your kids soccer team is a mild scizophreniac or suffers from some imbalance maybe. Guy who owns the corner grocery is a manic depressive. What will these people become when the magic disappears? Not trying to make it sound like being a hermit is the solution either, just thinking out loud.

wallew | 08-12-2009 10:09 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store I do understand the concept of not letting folks know about your stash of food, electricity, guns, etc. But like was said, 'in a couple of weeks only YOU will look fed'. It appears that most here seem to be of the 'hunker down' mentality. I'm of the bugout mentality. And I've got the vehicles and the fuel to carry me and mine and our preps away from troubled areas. To areas we have already scouted/prepped and know several back roads to get there. Also, don't you think MOST folks here (especially those of us to whom this is an old idea) will see 'it' coming a lot sooner than most. When there is still TIME to bugout. YOU DO HAVE A BUGOUT LOCATION (or three) set up already, yes? You already have your group set up and plans in place to meet you at such and such a location in case of bad times, yes? Tn...Andy, not many of us are as well stocked as you are. But are you prepared to 'Alamo up' at your place when the 'Mexicans' are at the door? Yes you have everything all of us WISH we had. Yes you are better prepared and more isolated than 99% of us. But you are tied to one location. And locals in YOUR area know that. I fear 'well meaning' government officials who are just trying to 'save their supporters' and figure you can share your stuff with others. Hence the 'bugout' locations are even more remote than that of Tn...Andy. One is above 9500 ft. Another is an abandoned mine. The third is a remote farm that has not been lived in for several years, though owned by one of my group. PLUS, what type of skill sets does your group have? Do you have a doctor/nurse/vet? How about a mechanic? Or an electrician? Gunsmith? Farmer? Cook? Bartender/brewer? Baker? Indian chief? Sorry, got carried away... Do your stores contain extra alcohol (don't forget tobacco)? Flour/sugar/baking powder/baking soda? Extra gunpowder/bullets/primers/cases? How large a tool selection do you have and can YOU use them? How about your first aid KITS? How about back ups to ALL of the above? Do you have comm gear that will work when everything else does not? Hint, that would be ham radio... Lots to think about. Even more to prepare for. Time is short.

AgAuGal | 08-12-2009 10:26 PM
Re: An event at my grocery store that brings a question to mind - can anyone reco a fresh water testing kit??

Real Money Now | 08-13-2009 12:33 AM
Re: An event at my grocery store Quote:
Originally Posted by AgAuGal (Post 1865828) that brings a question to mind - can anyone reco a fresh water testing kit??
As in testing for potability?

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