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Silver Moon Rising | 02-18-2009 03:03 PM
How to easily grow your own food It has been said, "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for life." Of course the problem with teaching a man to fish is that he will then sit in a boat all day drinking beer. :yes: So rather than teaching you how to fish, the theme of this thread is to teach you how to raise your own fish as well as a bumper crop of fresh organic vegetables in an easy to build and maintain eco-system, called aquaponics. The field of aquaponics combines aquaculture, which is the growing of fish for harvest, and hydroponics, which is the growing of vegetables using water. In an aquaponics system, the fish produce ammonia as a waste byproduct. Bacteria within the system convert the ammonia first into nitrites and then into nitrates. The plants absorb the nitrates and return clean water back to the fish. Plants thrive in an aquaponics system and tend to grow much more rapidly. No pesticides can be used since it would kill the bacteria and fish in the system, thus the food produced is pesticide free. A small, easy to build aquaponics system based on 55-gallon barrels, called "Barrel Ponics" was created by a guy named Travis Hughey. http://pictures.red-icculus.com/albu...ormal_8201.jpg The do-it-yourself Barrel-Ponics Manual is available for free at the following website: http://www.fastonline.org/content/view/15/29/ Here is a short video showing the Barrel Ponics system in operation: <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FwMEulvJ2Ps&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FwMEulvJ2Ps&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> There is Barrel Ponics support group on Yahoo at: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/barrelponics/ The fish in an aquaponics system have to be fed so one way to generate food for them is to convert human food waste into clean protein by using an insect know as the Black Soldier Fly (BSF). The BSF larvae consume large amounts of food waste and efficiently convert it into protein in the form of BSF pupae which can then be fed to the fish in the aquaponics system. For more information about the Black Soldier Fly go to: http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/ http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/wp-co...in-hand-wm.jpg

ShortJohnSilver | 02-18-2009 03:05 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Pretty cool, you got me thinking!

Dave | 02-18-2009 03:23 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food The complexity of that system makes me wonder how practical that would be if you were literally farming for your survival. Seems that the system is very dependent on electricity or some source of pumping. Very interesting concept but quite a few gotcha's..... Perhaps a little more development is needed. Dave

Wingmaster05 | 02-18-2009 03:45 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Some of us disagree with the domestication of animals. I would consider it slavery and anathema to nature to keep a living being in a 55 gallon drum, removing all of their potential life in the wild so i can get my omega 3 fatty acids. My opnion is not the only one, obviously, and we can agree to disagree. People are being more creative with solutions everyday...and in no way to do i condemn people becoming more sovereign.

MagpieFairy | 02-18-2009 03:49 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food I've gardened both ways. It's easier to dig a hole in the ground and weed than it is to maintain a hydroponic set up. IMO of course. YMMV

Silver Moon Rising | 02-18-2009 04:18 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 1578500) Seems that the system is very dependent on electricity or some source of pumping.
Yes, the system is a flood and drain system. Something must move the water from the fish tank to the dump tank about 2-3 times per hour. You can use electricity while it is available, or connect a solar panel or windmill. These alternate techniques have been successfully implemented. You could also use animal or human labor to do it as well.

Silver Moon Rising | 02-18-2009 04:27 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingmaster05 (Post 1578546) Some of us disagree with the domestication of animals. I would consider it slavery and anathema to nature to keep a living being in a 55 gallon drum, removing all of their potential life in the wild so i can get my omega 3 fatty acids.
Good news, this system can be implemented without fish by using "manure tea". According to this article you can eliminate the fish by adding one gallon of manure tea per 400 gallons of tank. To make manure tea add one shovel of manure to a pillow case and place in a five gallon pail of water.

Silver Moon Rising | 02-18-2009 04:37 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpieFairy (Post 1578552) I've gardened both ways. It's easier to dig a hole in the ground and weed than it is to maintain a hydroponic set up. IMO of course. YMMV
Yes, HYDROPONICS is probably more difficult to do properly than a dirt-based garden, but there could be nothing more simple than an AQUAPONICS system, as it is a natural eco-system. I have seen such simple systems as a tank of fish with a floating raft of lettuce and cabbage. The only thing you have to do is feed the fish and harvest the produce. No need to weed, no need to fertilize, no soil-born diseases or insects! What could be simpler than that? Results show that an aquaponics system can support double the density of plants and produce vegetables at 2 to 3 times the rate of dirt-based gardening.

MagpieFairy | 02-18-2009 04:58 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Sorry, for volume and practicality, an aquaponics system doesn't cut it. For the volume of gardening someone who is working towards self-suffiency, it is no more than a fun project. I'm not knocking it in principle, just that if you're serious about growing food to feed a family and preserve extra for winter, you need to get your hands dirty out in the yard. It would quickly become impractical to build a unit large enough for enough beans to both eat and can, not to mention I can't see it being easy to grow some crops like root crops - potatoes, carrots, beets, etc. I *do* see where this method would be good for certain areas/locations or for some crops, but I would like to see some numbers... like costs to set up a unit capable of feeding 20, 40 or more people? What crops will grow best this way? Amount of maintenance time involved?

TTAZZMAN | 02-18-2009 05:12 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingmaster05 (Post 1578546) Some of us disagree with the domestication of animals. I would consider it slavery and anathema to nature to keep a living being in a 55 gallon drum, removing all of their potential life in the wild so i can get my omega 3 fatty acids. My opnion is not the only one, obviously, and we can agree to disagree. People are being more creative with solutions everyday...and in no way to do i condemn people becoming more sovereign.
:36_1_25:....yep i 1000% disagree on your domestication of animals concept...i guess that is agreeing to disagree :biggrin:

Saul Mine | 02-18-2009 05:14 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food HERE is a simpler setup to do the same thing with chickens. HERE is the entire series.

Silver Moon Rising | 02-18-2009 05:58 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpieFairy (Post 1578733) ...I can't see it being easy to grow some crops like root crops - potatoes, carrots, beets, etc. <snip> What crops will grow best this way?
You are correct that dirt-based gardens are better for root plants such as potatoes and carrots. Yes, I still do raise potatoes and corn the old fashioned way. Here is a partial list of plants that will do better with an aquaponics system: Tomatoes Onions Squash Peppers Cucumbers Lettuce Spinach Pak Choy Basil Begonias Impatiens Mints Black Seeded Simpson Beets Mustard Swiss chard Peas Arugula Watercress Chives Beans Watermelon Cabbage Taro Redina lettuce Endive Spinach Amaranth Celery Parsley Tatsoi Collard Kale Garlic chives Okra Dill Cilantro Recao Rice Zucchini Cantaloupe Common chives Endive Most common household plants Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpieFairy (Post 1578733) I *do* see where this method would be good for certain areas/locations or for some crops, but I would like to see some numbers... like costs to set up a unit capable of feeding 20, 40 or more people? <snip> Amount of maintenance time involved?
While I haven't yet found an economic breakdown of what you are looking for, the University of the Virgin Islands has developed a commercial-scale aquaponic system that has been in operation for several years. Here is a report from 2004 showing their research in raising tilapia fish and basil and okra as the vegetables. They found that aquaponic-based basil gardening was three times more productive than dirt-based and aquaponic-based okra gardening was 18 times more productive than dirt-based.

Ralleia | 02-18-2009 06:55 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1578775) :36_1_25:....yep i 1000% disagree on your domestication of animals concept...i guess that is agreeing to disagree :biggrin:
I thought that was what the ignore feature was for. I don't ignore those that I 85%-100% disagree with, but anyone from outer space--is outta my world. :bear_thumb:

Meliorist | 02-18-2009 07:54 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food What's the setup you use Silver Moon Rising? How long have you been doing it and what's worked for you and what hasn't? Oh, and for anyone looking for cheap (food grade) barrels, this ad seemed like a good deal.

Silver Moon Rising | 02-18-2009 08:36 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Quote:
Originally Posted by Meliorist (Post 1579205) What's the setup you use Silver Moon Rising? How long have you been doing it and what's worked for you and what hasn't?
I started out with the Barrel Ponics system last year using gold fish and have raised tomatoes, onions, peppers (bell & jalapeno), beans, cilantro, basil and even some catnip. The Barrel Ponics system is a great starter system to learn the concept and to see wheher or not you want to go further with it. I do want to go further, and now am in the process of planing a larger system with a greenhouse, a large fish tank and multiple grow beds. I would like to move up to a larger fish such as tilapia or catfish that can be harvested as well. I just recently learned about raising Black Solder Fly larvae and have purchased a commercial unit called "The BioPod" that looks promising. Here's a picture of it: http://www.thebiopod.com/pages/produ...es/page1_1.png Quote:
Originally Posted by Meliorist (Post 1579205) Oh, and for anyone looking for cheap (food grade) barrels, this ad seemed like a good deal.
Yes, you can usually find used food-grade barrels for less than $20 on flea-bay, Craigslist, or weekly ad papers like The Greensheet or Thrifty Nickel.

ShortJohnSilver | 02-18-2009 09:09 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingmaster05 (Post 1578546) Some of us disagree with the domestication of animals. I would consider it slavery and anathema to nature to keep a living being in a 55 gallon drum, removing all of their potential life in the wild so i can get my omega 3 fatty acids.
I will go you one further. I completely disagree with the MURDER and DESTRUCTION of vegetables such as carrots and onions, which are wholly innocent and are destroyed solely for their tastiness. I ONLY eat the fruit or seeds of plants, such as tomatoes, apples, and green beans, which leave the original plant intact. Coconut, etc. are also OK, and so is coffee and chocolate. I consider it the only moral choice, in that I provide "shelter" and "food" for the plant, and they pay me a fair "rent". Surely you can see that I am morally superior to you in this matter... :tongue_ma:

Wingmaster05 | 02-18-2009 09:22 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortJohnSilver (Post 1579378) I will go you one further. I completely disagree with the MURDER and DESTRUCTION of vegetables such as carrots and onions, which are wholly innocent and are destroyed solely for their tastiness. I ONLY eat the fruit or seeds of plants, such as tomatoes, apples, and green beans, which leave the original plant intact. Coconut, etc. are also OK, and so is coffee and chocolate. I consider it the only moral choice, in that I provide "shelter" and "food" for the plant, and they pay me a fair "rent". Surely you can see that I am morally superior to you in this matter... :tongue_ma:
I eat meat too. You clearly missed the point of the post. I'm saying domestication of all of life, including of humans, is the near the source of our problems. Hence, I don't endorse domestication as a solution.

Meliorist | 02-18-2009 09:29 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortJohnSilver (Post 1579378) I ONLY eat the fruit or seeds of plants, such as tomatoes, apples, and green beans, which leave the original plant intact.
You madman! Seeds are babies! You eat babies?!? I only eat things that are dead. How they got that way isn't my fault or care. (j/k)

GreenSpirit | 02-18-2009 09:31 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Mine (Post 1578782) HERE is a simpler setup to do the same thing with chickens. HERE is the entire series.
I'm surprised they were able to get the chickens to live underwater. :ok:

MagpieFairy | 02-18-2009 10:26 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Well, are you guys through thread-jacking this subject? Y'all wouldn't mind if we got back to the subject, would ya? :;): Silver Moon, the bio pod for the fly larvae.... I am familiar with the process, but I am also familiar with the annoying flies produced by fly larvae. Does this keep them completely contained and what about when they are used to feed poultry? Is it likely that the adult fly population in the area will rise from "missed" larvae?? And the facility in the Virgin Islands is nice, but far beyond what a family farm would be capable of creating without access to a LOT of money. Yes, basil production increases with water culture production, but really, how much basil do you need? I had so much last year, I ended up letting some of it rot. Same with the okra.... I ate, pickled and froze more okra than we can eat in 2 years. I see this as being a solution for production growing for cities and maybe smaller units for some things at home, but it still seems far from a practical solution to most folks growing needs.

Silver Moon Rising | 02-18-2009 10:32 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Okay, you've turned my serious thread into satire. Two can play that game! Here is a picture of the goldfish that I ate the first year! http://nupmart.snowman-studios.com/france/11jan002.jpg

Silver Moon Rising | 02-18-2009 11:08 PM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpieFairy (Post 1579520) Silver Moon, the bio pod for the fly larvae.... I am familiar with the process, but I am also familiar with the annoying flies produced by fly larvae. Does this keep them completely contained and what about when they are used to feed poultry? Is it likely that the adult fly population in the area will rise from "missed" larvae??
That's the really cool thing about the Black Soldier Fly. It emits a chemical odor that drives common house flies away. Once a BSF larvae colony is established, you will be hard pressed to find a house fly in the area. BSF are only attracted to rotting waste and thus are not attracted to humans or the insides of homes. BSF are therefore not seen as much as the common house fly. After completing the larvae stage, they discard their intestines and lose their mouth parts so that they can never eat again, or bite anyone for that matter. Their only mission in life during the fly stage is to mate and lay their eggs near a rotting waste. They only live 5 to 8 days, so they recommend setting 5% of the pupae free to keep your local population of BSF thriving. Your poultry will devour the BSF pupae as soon as you put it on the ground, thus not allowing any to pupate and become an adult BSF. Here is a picture of the Black Soldier Fly, followed by a picture of some BSF pupae. http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1155/...bff0da.jpg?v=0 http://blacksoldierflyblog.com/wp-co...in-hand-wm.jpg Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpieFairy (Post 1579520) And the facility in the Virgin Islands is nice, but far beyond what a family farm would be capable of creating without access to a LOT of money.
I pointed to that one because you asked for information on feeding 20 or 40 people from a system. Some of the information that I have seen, says that an aquaponics system the size of a compact car can meet the bare minimum nutritional needs of an adult. For a family of four, it would be the size of a carport. Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpieFairy (Post 1579520) I see this as being a solution for production growing for cities and maybe smaller units for some things at home, but it still seems far from a practical solution to most folks growing needs.
Yes, these systems would be great for city dwellers who typically don't have enough land to feed their families. Also, aquaponics systems have been making inroads in Africa and the Phillipines where resources are scarce. I plan on using available land for planting corn potatoes and possibly wheat and using the aquaponics system for the rest of the stuff. Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpieFairy (Post 1579520) Yes, basil production increases with water culture production, but really, how much basil do you need? I had so much last year, I ended up letting some of it rot. Same with the okra.... I ate, pickled and froze more okra than we can eat in 2 years.
Well that's another great thing about aquaponics. You get the produce two to three times quicker so when you get enough of a certain plant, just rip it out (oh the horror to you morally superior folks :wink:) and you still have enough time left in the growing season to grow a different vegetable or even two!

The Biss | 02-19-2009 12:41 AM
Re: How to easily grow your own food These guys who sell the black fly bio-pods live about 5 miles from me. I'm going to give their sales office a call tomorrow and see about offering them for sale on my website as chicken fodder. THANK YOU for bringing this easy source of protein to my attention!

MagpieFairy | 02-19-2009 02:08 AM
Re: How to easily grow your own food Thanks for the reply, SMR.... I'm going to "digest" this info for the night and will come back tomorrow with what will likely be another fresh barrage of questions. You've piqued my interest. I have the soldier flies here.... I left veggies rotting on the porch last summer and they infested the bucket right away. I dumped the whole thing in my compost pile, so perhaps they will be back this spring.... I'm all about beneficial insects here as I garden organically. G'nite...

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