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Hivemindgammahydra7 | 03-27-2007 03:17 AM
Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Today the "intelligentsia" informed me that "things have never been better in California - better to live here than ANYWHERE else!" and that the state's myriad problems "are nothing new - what's YOUR problem, Mr. Hive-man?" The latter remark was from a tenured professor at the Claremont Colleges. Yet I both believe and assert that western civilization shows the classical signs of decay and decline, and that we're inexorably headed for a new Dark Age. California showing the worst and most numerous aspects, at present. Do you concur, or am I just full of crap? Please cast your vote...

Master_Ho | 03-27-2007 03:18 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 552236) Today the "intelligentsia" informed me that "things have never been better in California - better to live here than ANYWHERE else!" and that the state's myriad problems "are nothing new - what's YOUR problem, Mr. Hive-man?" The latter remark was from a tenured professor at the Claremont Colleges. Yet I both believe and assert that western civilization shows the classical signs of decay and decline, and that we're inexorably headed for a new Dark Age. California showing the worst and most numerous aspects, at present. Do you concur, or am I just full of crap?
Hive - don't start me on this - but you are right - CA is the single stupidest state I have ever lived in!

Antonio | 03-27-2007 03:19 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Lenin used to say that "intellegentsia is the shit of the nation,not it`s brain".

REV127 | 03-27-2007 03:44 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Yes, we are heading for a global dark age. How much technology we lose will be relative to how many people we lose, in inverse porportion. A rapid die off of most of the world's population would allow superior civilizations to quickly replace current ones. A slow meatgrinder will have archaeologists and philosophers 10,000 years from now debating whether or not 21st century man possessed the wheel or even fire. Many of us will live to see plagues and genocides on a mythic scale.

RiverRat | 03-27-2007 04:01 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? :D When they start passing out Kool Aid Hive...have a psychotic episode and crawl to the nearest exit...then run like hell... Just think...Arnold is on the short list for El Presidente' in the near future...the entire US will become a freaking paradise...just like California. Good Morning Viet Nam !!! :yes: :yes: :yes:

DrillAndFill | 03-27-2007 04:55 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Can't tell whether this question is really CA-specific, but there seems to be a CA flavor, so I'll spin it that way. One thing: the air quality is significantly better than it was 30 years ago, but may have gone downhill since the late '80s. Also: if CA is total crap -- in some ways there's no denying it -- why does business continue to do so well here? The bad: our transit, water, and power infrastructure is vulnerable, thereby making everything more vulnerable to a resource crunch -- this applies to the US in general, but CA has terrible issues with traffic and poor road planning and maintenance. The key word is "headed", when you think of a new dark age. Civilizations take decades to collapse. If post-Soviet Eastern Europe didn't manage to implode completely, I don't think we will. I think the biggest threat, beyond even the debt mountain or the scarcity of resources, is that people will want to give government whatever powers necessary to stabilize things. Americans are basically socialists and fascists, and may need to get these tendencies out of their system by living them.

R MacDonald | 03-27-2007 04:57 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Prepare for the worst.... Hope for the best.

aeondaze | 03-27-2007 05:10 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? It's highly possible, but hard to predict what it may look like, we can try and imagine some freak show dystopian Hollywood movie, a cross between blade runner, mad max and terminator, but I imagine these ares still heavilly restricted paradigms. I still adhere to the notion that a society which values the ultimate achievement or trophy in life as doing nothing, is shortsighted. Technology aside, because it may not actually save us from our own inbuilt hardwired predatory mechanisms which are prone to all sorts of irational manias.:s13: If only we could live in trees again...but we cut 'em all down...:D

RiverRat | 03-27-2007 06:07 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? :D Posted by Drill: Quote:
Americans are basically socialists and fascists, and may need to get these tendencies out of their system by living them.
Quite insightful...and basically my own view as well. Socialistic patriotism disguised as fantasy democracy...we are already quite a way down the road to fulfilling the end game we have built... The United Socialist Welfare States Of America A little off topic...but semi relevant in the context of this thread : The USSR cannibalized itself from within trying to create jobs and level the playing field across social classes...it effectively homogenized the stupid,ethnic,and illiterate into equal social strata resulting in a runaway downward spiral into sub mediocrity and resultant financial poverty. In plain laguage...they dumbed down the citizens to the point they were walking vegetables with sub par educations and no marketable skills to support the economy.The Chinese,The Japanese and The US didn't care about their Nukes and Military might...hell,they could just buy the whole damn country and own it outright...the Russian politicians were willing to sell everything to the highest bidder...in short...Socialism was a dismal failure...it will always be...the model is flawed. Sound faintly familiar ? Do the math...it won't fly... :puke: :puke: :puke:

goldbug | 03-27-2007 06:52 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 552302) :D Posted by Drill: Quite insightful...and basically my own view as well. Socialistic patriotism disguised as fantasy democracy...we are already quite a way down the road to fulfilling the end game we have built... The United Socialist Welfare States Of America A little off topic...but semi relevant in the context of this thread : The USSR cannibalized itself from within trying to create jobs and level the playing field across social classes...it effectively homogenized the stupid,ethnic,and illiterate into equal social strata resulting in a runaway downward spiral into sub mediocrity and resultant financial poverty. In plain laguage...they dumbed down the citizens to the point they were walking vegetables with sub par educations and no marketable skills to support the economy.The Chinese,The Japanese and The US didn't care about their Nukes and Military might...hell,they could just buy the whole damn country and own it outright...the Russian politicians were willing to sell everything to the highest bidder...in short...Socialism was a dismal failure...it will always be...the model is flawed. Sound faintly familiar ? Do the math...it won't fly... :puke: :puke: :puke:
I totally agree with the fact that socialism / communism is a total failure. The Soviets (many) were very well educated, though. They were purposely kept in the dark (sound familiar?) about history and current events. Many were well educated and intelligent. The failure of socialism is the disincentive to work, by punishing productive people while rewarding slackers. The methods that must be employed (pun intended) to force this system on society are control, deception, and micromanagement from the center. Also, in attempting to force this poison on its people, the system had to try to censure thought. Thought police and everyone encouraged to rat out anyone with contrary ideas led to everyone lying to each other about everything. Real disfunction set in. These things are why it will not work. Dumbing down the population makes it even worse.

Turner-son | 03-27-2007 08:53 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 552264) :D When they start passing out Kool Aid Hive...have a psychotic episode and crawl to the nearest exit...then run like hell... Just think...Arnold is on the short list for El Presidente' in the near future...the entire US will become a freaking paradise...just like California. Good Morning Viet Nam !!! :yes: :yes: :yes:
How do you figure? That would take a Constitutional Amendment and that's never going to happen. I'm not saying the US is going downhill quickly, but we won't have to worry about Arnold being President.

damoc | 03-27-2007 09:11 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by Turner-son (Post 552393) How do you figure? That would take a Constitutional Amendment and that's never going to happen. I'm not saying the US is going downhill quickly, but we won't have to worry about Arnold being President.
If there is a new dark age much will change you could see Arnold as president or more likely el presedente of NCR. :yippee:

gunner | 03-27-2007 09:11 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by Turner-son (Post 552393) How do you figure? That would take a Constitutional Amendment and that's never going to happen. I'm not saying the US is going downhill quickly, but we won't have to worry about Arnold being President.
Martial law suspends the Constitution - no amendment required

RiverRat | 03-27-2007 09:12 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? :no_ma: Posted by Turner-son: Quote:
but we won't have to worry about Arnold being President.
I'm afraid the Rothchilds and the military/industrial complex have other plans for Arnold...contrary to yours. Do some research...all the signs point to just that...it's under evaluation. Meet the new boss....dumber than the old boss...comes to mind. Posted by goldbug: Quote:
The failure of socialism is the disincentive to work, by punishing productive people while rewarding slackers.
Gee Whiz goldbug...it took me two paragraphs to say exactly the same thing...socialism > The condensed version by goldbug. :coolbeer: :coolbeer: :coolbeer:

Kahlil Gibran | 03-27-2007 09:30 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? 1 Attachment(s) Attachment 26006 What channel is this Dark Age thingie on?

Ghost Recon | 03-27-2007 10:32 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? I still think that it's going to take at least a few years to play out. But yeah....prepare for the worst. Your not going to pay any attention to what I say. But hopefully you'll pay attention to what Keef is saying.

AMforPM | 03-27-2007 11:12 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? I expect some rough years and a better future from lessons learned the hard way. So not a dark age, but some dark years.

mayhem | 03-27-2007 11:32 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by drill I think the biggest threat, beyond even the debt mountain or the scarcity of resources, is that people will want to give government whatever powers necessary to stabilize things. Americans are basically socialists and fascists, and may need to get these tendencies out of their system by living them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR Socialistic patriotism disguised as fantasy democracy...we are already quite a way down the road to fulfilling the end game we have built...
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldbug These things are why it will not work. Dumbing down the population makes it even worse.
I have to agree with RR, D&F, and goldbug on the socialism. I have said for years now that we will have to go through a period of unlimited years of socialism BEFORE we get back to anything like a Republic. I began a project 5 or so years ago to print everything relating to how to fix things, how to make things and the basics of a Republican government. If we descend into the dark ages all those CD�s will be as useful as the old IBM 360 tapes. I now have at least 10 binders of stuff. When the archologiest find that stuff a thousand years from now they will have something to entertain themselves with. M

Kahlil Gibran | 03-27-2007 11:52 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? 1 Attachment(s) Attachment 26016 As darkness fell upon each destroyed host nation the parasites sailed on to their next victim.

mjk1971 | 03-27-2007 04:14 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? The End of Culture began in the 1920s, accelerated into the 1930s, resulting in the defeat of a Cultured Nation in favor of the regime of anti-Culture, and snowballed to previously unimaginable levels after the war. I'm 36, and have never lived in a time where Culture was revered or widespread. The Dark Age is not coming. It is upon us.

mjk1971 | 03-27-2007 04:18 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 552237) Hive - don't start me on this - but you are right - CA is the single stupidest state I have ever lived in!
You're living among the wrong people. I'm a Fifth-Generation native Californian, and know many other native Californians. NONE OF THEM like what has happened to OUR state, with all the freaks and weirdoes IMPORTING themselves into California. And once these types from outside have established themselves, they start making California look like where they came from. The Third World-ization of California is because these outsiders brought with them their lunatic theories about "multiculturalism." California was once a beacon of Culture to the entire world. As for a different brand of "stupid," I regard any state that voted FOR Bush as among the lowest in intellect.

mjk1971 | 03-27-2007 04:19 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 552255) A rapid die off of most of the world's population would allow superior civilizations to quickly replace current ones.
Which is why China could sustain a nuclear war with a 50% casualty rate and not only not be defeated, but THRIVE.

Anty Ep | 03-27-2007 04:19 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? the KALI JUGA has been here for a long time already. the end is NOT in sight.

mjk1971 | 03-27-2007 04:25 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by damoc (Post 552407) If there is a new dark age much will change you could see Arnold as president or more likely el presedente of NCR. :yippee:
Schwarzenegger will NEVER be President. If a Constitutional Amendment is done to allow a foreigner to be President, it would be for someone like Benjamin Netanyahu to be President.

mjk1971 | 03-27-2007 04:26 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner (Post 552408) Martial law suspends the Constitution - no amendment required
Only in Weimar Germany.

mjk1971 | 03-27-2007 04:28 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 552880) the KALI JUGA has been here for a long time already. the end is NOT in sight.
AGREED! If the Mayan Prophecies have any basis in fact, the earliest we could hope for some light in the darkness would be December 23, 2012.

keehah | 03-27-2007 04:37 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Now where was I? Oh yes. The erosion of moral principles.,. So we now we find principles treated as mere opinion by most young people and their parents, call it diversity tolerance overshoot, and any answers posed to the great questions of our age neatly written off. Global warming? Just some scientists' opinion. The unjustness of our wars? More opinion. Inequity in society? In whose opinion? Wastefulness of our lifestyle? A matter of opinion.
Joe Bageant http://goldismoney.info/forums/showt...892#post552892

Clay | 03-27-2007 06:19 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? We've got a long way to go before we get back to Dark Ages. I'm not so sure that this will happen all that soon. One or two scenarios might bring this on, but they are the least likely of the bunch.

glmknife | 03-27-2007 06:21 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Was Planet of the Chimps before or after the dark ages? Please go to a zoo and kick a chimp for breeding with a low IQ cheerlader

Veritas | 03-27-2007 06:23 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 552255) Yes, we are heading for a global dark age. How much technology we lose will be relative to how many people we lose, in inverse porportion. A rapid die off of most of the world's population would allow superior civilizations to quickly replace current ones. A slow meatgrinder will have archaeologists and philosophers 10,000 years from now debating whether or not 21st century man possessed the wheel or even fire. Many of us will live to see plagues and genocides on a mythic scale.
Ever see the The Postman? Seems to be an accurate description of what may lie ahead.

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Master_Ho | 03-27-2007 06:58 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by mjk1971 (Post 552876) You're living among the wrong people. I'm a Fifth-Generation native Californian, and know many other native Californians. NONE OF THEM like what has happened to OUR state, with all the freaks and weirdoes IMPORTING themselves into California. And once these types from outside have established themselves, they start making California look like where they came from. The Third World-ization of California is because these outsiders brought with them their lunatic theories about "multiculturalism." California was once a beacon of Culture to the entire world. As for a different brand of "stupid," I regard any state that voted FOR Bush as among the lowest in intellect.
No argument with the last paragraph - especially the second time around....and yes, this place has certainly gone to seed since I got here 28 years ago - and perhaps there is a difference in native-Californians (which are incredibly hard to find) and perhaps even Nothern vs Southern CA.......but please make note - when I typed that the thread was, at least appeared to be, about the Los Angeles area.......... I, for one, think the northern half should build a wall in the middle of the state, change its name and claim no knowledge of the lower half. On a side-topic.........there was recently a city official (I forget his position and name, it was some days ago now) who said the blacks and Latinos were going to explode into mass violence, and, in the course of covering that topic, they had their nightly survey and asked the viewers if they agreed. Now - most nights its about 50-50.......or at worst 75-25.........but this was the most amazing result I have ever seen in years of watching this newscast......... 90% said they expect a racial riot or violence between Latinos and Blacks in Los Angeles. 90% expect it!!!

Anty Ep | 03-27-2007 07:05 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? acc to the recent SPLC slander-sheet, the Mexicans in LA are offing blacks at a high rate already. as they say of Iraq, "at what point do we reach civil war?"

Master_Ho | 03-27-2007 07:44 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 553105) acc to the recent SPLC slander-sheet, the Mexicans in LA are offing blacks at a high rate already. as they say of Iraq, "at what point do we reach civil war?"
When they offer you tea and a cookie before shooting you! Or ask "May I!" Civil war is SUCH an oxymoron!

keehah | 03-27-2007 09:00 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? The Southland's hidden Third World slums In the Coachella Valley, hundreds of trailer parks house desperately poor Latino workers amid burning trash, mud, contaminated water. By David Kelly, Times Staff Writer March 26, 2007 http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...home-headlines THERMAL, CALIF. � Like most of their neighbors in the sprawling, ramshackle Oasis Mobile Home Park, the Aguilars have no heat, no hot water. On cold nights, the family of eight stays warm by bundling up in layers of sweaters and sleeps packed together in two tiny rooms. Bathing is a luxury that requires using valuable propane to boil gallons of water. So the farmworker clan spends a lot of time dirty. Jose Aguilar, a wiry 9-year-old, has found a way around the bath problem. He just waits until dinner. "My mom makes frijoles," he said, "then I take a bath in that water." Jose and his family live in a world few ever see, a vast poverty born in hundreds of trailer parks strung like a shabby necklace across the eastern Coachella Valley. Out here � just a few miles from world-class golf resorts, private hunting clubs and polo fields � half-naked children toddle barefoot through mud and filth while packs of feral dogs prowl piles of garbage nearby. Thick smoke from mountains of burning trash drifts through broken windows. People � sometimes 30 or more � are crammed into trailers with no heat, no air-conditioning, undrinkable water, flickering power and plumbing that breaks down for weeks or months at a time. "I was speechless," said Haider Quintero, a Colombian training for the priesthood who recently visited the parks as part of his studies."I never expected to see this in America." Riverside County officials say there are between 100 and 200 illegal trailer parks in the valley, but the Coachella Valley Housing Coalition says the number could be as high as 500. California Rural Legal Assistance says as few as 20 parks are legal, and they are often as dilapidated as the illegal ones. When county inspectors locate a park without permits, they prefer to let owners bring the place into compliance through loan and grant programs rather than evict the tenants....

REV127 | 03-27-2007 09:24 PM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Yup, that is my best case scenario.

Ghost Recon | 04-01-2007 10:47 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? Still years down the road.....Institutions/companies that are stable today, will fail. Executives will take the money and run...in the middle of the night. We will wake up to shocking headlines. Police departments will be overwhelmed with little backup. And then some idiot will call in UN troops....

Unclad Lad | 04-02-2007 03:12 AM
Re: Are we headed for a new Dark Age? From our own pessimistic viewpoints, would we be able to discern a Dark age from a Golden one?

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