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- - how would you prepare for wtshtf (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=152550)

johnlvs2run | 07-05-2007 01:43 AM
how would you prepare for wtshtf If you had no preparations but $10,000 U.S. to invest, how would you prepare for wtshtf, other than water and food. Which would you get first, and in what proportion of the R10,000 overall? Anything else not mentioned here? first aid kit flashlight signal mirror backpack seeds pennies nickels dimes quarters or would you ignore u.s. coins? silver coins - what kind, denominations and how much gold coins what else

damoc | 07-05-2007 02:08 AM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf dont think 10000 would go far in a lot of places but if you dont have out of town property i would put that to the top of my list somewhere you can develop what you need for protection,water and food.

madfranks | 07-05-2007 02:13 AM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Absolutely, gotta get some out of the way property, preferably in the mountains or somewhere near a water source where you can live far from civilization. $10,000 could get you a small piece of land I bet.

Maddie | 07-05-2007 02:44 AM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf -Medical supplies and training. A basic First Aid kit doesn't usually have anything in it you can't do without. Putting together a good medical supply stock is kind of expensive. I just spent $200 today putting together a kit for my vehicle, and I already had some supplies. My home kit has easily cost more than twice that to put together, but I am pretty well set up. You may want to consider adding important basics that your local medical facilities will likely run out of in a few days if a major disaster or disasters occur (such as IV kits, Foley catheters, etc.) Needless to say, get the training to use the stuff you store. A good source for supplies: http://www.chinookmed.com/index.cfm?...TOKEN=49613861 -Tools, the old-fashioned kind that you can use to cut and split wood, drill holes, etc., without gasoline or electricity, and of course, gardening tools, if you don't have them already. Don't forget the need to sharpen cutting tools. -Oil lamps, wicks, oil -Guns, ammo, reloading supplies/equipment (or might I assume you already have this stuff? I think pretty much everyone here does!) -A pressure canner and canning supplies, if you don't already have such. You'll need to preserve your food through the winter. It can also be used to sterilize your medical instruments. -Flashlights are good, headlamps are better (IMHO). If you're in for the long haul, I'd pick up a carbide lantern and a bulk order of carbide (remember not to dispose of spent carbide anywhere near your water supply or where animals can get into it). -Ziplock freezer baggies. Seriously, you can do so much with those! -Duct tape. Lots of duct tape. Can one get through an apocalypse without duct tape? -A tube of Shoe Goo. You can use it to reinforce areas on backpacks, clothing, etc., that get a lot of wear, as well as on shoes. I've even patched holes in my truck cap with the stuff. -Hygiene supplies. I notice you didn't list any! This is the part my that drives my non-survivalist husband nuts. He doesn't mind all the cabinets of food in the basement or the ammo dump or the geiger counter or the gun safe in the kitchen or the BOBs in the vehicles, but it makes him absolutely crazy that I have toilet paper stashed in the basement! When TSHTF, he can just go find himself some corncobs! Lol! He'll get no sympathy from me! -Land for a hideyhole. -Empty sandbags. Stop floods, build fortifications, lots of possibilities, and they're cheap.

Kahlil Gibran | 07-05-2007 08:39 AM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
-A tube of Shoe Goo. You can use it to reinforce areas on backpacks, clothing, etc., that get a lot of wear, as well as on shoes. I've even patched holes in my truck cap with the stuff.
:adore: Maddie's husband must be the most envied man on Earth.

Tn...Andy | 07-05-2007 09:12 AM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf OK....you say "other than food or water"....So the assumption is you have water and a means to filter/clean/purify more water.....and a year's worth of food, minimum, set aside. IF that isn't the case, STOP reading NOW....do not pass GO, and work on that....it will eat a large hole, if not all, in your 10K. The next thing you need is some insurance in the form of armament to defend the above two from the majority who DON'T have either and their plan will be to take yours. Allow 500-1000 FRNs minimum. Then you need the means to raise more food....yes, seeds, and the tools to plant, harvest, etc. Allow another 1000 FRNs. Also in this category, you need something money simply can't buy......actual experience at raising a fair portion of your own food. Some folks buy a can of open pollinated garden seed and have never raised the first squash, thinking they will just sorta throw them out on the ground somewhere and harvest a wheelbarrow load in a day or two.....in other words, they have TOTALLY unreal expections on food production. These folks are idiots, and will starve......they may even be MORE idiotic than the people that have NEVER even given a thought to how they would eat if the store shelves were empty and McDonalds wasn't open......they will certainly BOTH be in for a rude awakening, followed by death. Then you need to have a means ( and the experience ) at preserving food. "Stalking the Wild Asparagus" really doesn't work all that well from about October to April most places. Equipment and supplies.....nuther 1,000, minimum. Depending on your climate, heat can be as important as any of the above come winter....tools to produce fuel, probably wood primary....and the means to actually burn it efficiently for heat and cooking. Got a wood cookstove in your plan ? Also, some means of light production.....oil lamps, fuel for them,etc. Nuther 1-2k or so shot pretty quick.... Then you can move on to medical supplies ( and training ).....bare minimum, a good first aid kid.....books like "Where there are no doctors", etc. Few hundred dollars, minimum. THEN, if you're a way more frugal shopper than I am ( :D ), and you manage to have anything left out of 10k, you might pick up some silver coins of pre-65 US mintage in case you live long enough for trade to resume....but they would be WAY down my list of items to have......and my 10k would be long gone before I ever got around to that.

RichG | 07-05-2007 09:21 AM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Amen....Tn...Andy...amen. :smokin:

Tn...Andy | 07-05-2007 09:52 AM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf That RichG fellow is a man of few words ( versus a prolific bullshitter like me )......but if things prevailed that I had to leave my house for some reason in a storm, I'd hope I'd get in a house like his. I only came to gold and silver in the later stages of preparation....my first stages were assuming the world went TOTALLY to crap, and I prepared for that. That consumed probably 50-200k ( depending on how much of my current location you count ) and 20 years of time. I then turned my thoughts to "well, ok, what if things DON'T totally go to pieces.....what if just the Federal Reserve Note tanks, and here I've invested lot of effort into a place I might loose to something as piddly as property taxes ( like a lot of folks did in the last Depression ).....or what IF my savings for old age turn to confetti like the savings of old folks in the former USSR did, and it takes wheelbarrow loads of FRNs to buy a gallon of gas or a loaf of bread ?" I HEARD Richard Nixon on TV in 1970 saying "Bread will NEVER be a DOLLAR a loaf !! Gas will NEVER be a DOLLAR a gallon"......apparently "never" is politicspeak for about 10-15 years, or until I'm out of office, whichever comes first..... :D So, with those thoughts in mind, I came looking to get educated on metals....and got a first class education right here from some truly great minds on the subject....you'll find none better on the internet, I feel sure. In return, I post, prod, and cajoule those some of those same great minds ( and anybody else that will listen ) to prepare the REST of their house in a fashion that will give them a chance to ride out other types of storms beside economic ones. Take it for what it's worth, boys and girls.

johnlvs2run | 07-05-2007 06:16 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Thanks much for all the greatttt replies. I'm going to review everything and then respond more. :D

KASHMAN02 | 07-05-2007 07:23 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlvs2run (Post 654398) If you had no preparations but $10,000 U.S. to invest, how would you prepare for wtshtf, other than water and food. Which would you get first, and in what proportion of the R10,000 overall? Anything else not mentioned here? first aid kit flashlight signal mirror backpack seeds pennies nickels dimes quarters or would you ignore u.s. coins? silver coins - what kind, denominations and how much gold coins what else
You omit the most important item, it's a gun to protect what you have bought and saved

ShinyThings | 07-05-2007 07:36 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf I've also heard that you should get some updated and complete reference books on medical and plant biology/botany. You can include other disciplines if you have the funds. Also, I read somewhere that you should consider a pair of dogs, male and female. I'm not sure I totally agree with the dogs. They offer protection and can be an early alert system for tresspassers. Problem is, you gotta feed 'em.

johnlvs2run | 07-05-2007 07:56 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by KASHMAN02 (Post 655076) You omit the most important item, it's a gun to protect what you have bought and saved
Of course I want to defend myself and also keep a low profile. The thing is, I can envision dead people laying all over near my house and am not so sure that would be good. Plus eventually the military could come in and bomb the place anyway. Does everyone agree about having a gun, and are there any alternatives to having them?

damoc | 07-05-2007 08:12 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf if you are somewhere where you can envision dead people lying all around your house i think you are in the wrong spot the very definition of defending yourself and family pretty much says that you and your family are at risk and in danger how can you lessen that risk? a gun gives you a good means to defend oneself (which i think is very necesary)but dont you think it would be better to try and avoid confrontation if possible.

johnlvs2run | 07-05-2007 08:15 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf damoc, yes definitely - getting to a better location is the #1 priority.

Anty Ep | 07-05-2007 08:57 PM
include PEOPLE and SKILLS not just STUFF Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlvs2run (Post 654398) If you had no preparations but $10,000 U.S. to invest, how would you prepare for wtshtf, other than water and food. ............. what else
I would get to know my neighbors. Make friends in the place where people can help you when the going gets rough. I notice that all the typical "preps" discussion here generally is about accumulating stuff. typical survivalist mentality. dig in yer bunker and hope the black helicopters dont spot you. Other people are the most crucial part of your survival plan. Survival in the wilderness generally means finding a way back to civilization. Survival in the time of the "collapse" will mean recreating civilization with other people in your own location. Besides PEOPLE the second most important element of your plan is "SKILLS." There are some skills that you will need and wont be able to aquire under pressure. For example, hand to hand combat and marksmanship. A clever person can find a way to get a gun PDQ. But picking up critical skills takes time. So that is my 2 cents. Dont forget to work PEOPLE and SKILLS into your plan not just hoarding STUFF.

David Merrill | 07-05-2007 09:00 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlvs2run (Post 655124) damoc, yes definitely - getting to a better location is the #1 priority.
I used to think that too. I do a lot of backpacking and have a mountaintop with supplies deep in a cavern. But that is only a good approach for maybe three months tops. Quote:
-Medical supplies and training. A basic First Aid kit doesn't usually have anything in it you can't do without. Putting together a good medical supply stock is kind of expensive.
It is panic and certain other mentalities that we need to avoid. http://www.docsavings.com/Merchant2/...ory_Code=MonoS Expensive? Yes. I walked into a medical supply place - walkers, diabetic socks, antiseptic wipes and stuff like that. I was looking for sutures for a good first aid kit. The lady warned me and when I was not contrite she actually went back to her office like she was planning to call the cops on me. She actually wanted me to be ashamed in front of her staff for even asking! It is in the middle of town but there is a neighborhood where I like to walk the dogs. To save postage the newsletter for the Neighborhood Homeowners Association is rubberbanded to the mailboxes once a month. Well the wind gets these and I pick them up while walking the dogs and distribute them again the next day's walk. But it gets me thinking... These people already have an infrastructure, at least for communications. There are some unique things about that neighborhood, bluffs, gravel roads, bridal easements and grandfathered livestock rights inner city... In the event of infrastructure failure, these people would be immediately in touch with their neighbors about what to do next. Think about it. If the electricity goes out what is the immediate concern? The hundreds of dollars of frozen food in your freezer, right? Same with everybody else around you. Get a small generator. If you do not know electricity you are in trouble because you would not figure out: 1) shut off the Main breaker switch - if the power comes back on it will wreck your generator - out of phase 2) shut off all the breakers except the kitchen area and the outlet outside on the balcony 3) build a plug to plug cord, and plug the generator running on the balcony or ventilated garage if need be into the wall outlet 4) remember to unplug the generator from the wall before you turn the Main breaker back on [Also, without an electrically driven fan, furnaces do not work so if there is gas without electricity, there is still no heat to the home. In cold this process works to run the furnace and warm up the house. But you need enough electricity to run the large fan in the furnace.] I enjoy living outside but the idea of isolationism for survival is a real turnoff to me. The idea that I would have to turn away needy strangers, kill them if necessary to keep me and mine "safe" and "secured" is not my idea of living and barely even survival. So as soon as my freezer is good and cold I am headed over to that neighborhood with the generator in my wagon and an extension cord... See? For some frozen corn and a few steaks I will charge up thier freezer and get in good with that Neighborhood Association. These people will be helping to keep each other out of a survivalist mentality. And me stopping by with a ready confident smile to help keep their frozen food safe while they get the freezers pooled together with a full time generator will help keep things that way indefinitely. Regards, David Merrill.

damoc | 07-05-2007 09:08 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf I think anty eps advice is worth its weight in gold not just 2 cents the only thing you can realy be sure to have or take with you wtshtf is your knowledge and skills and they are what take the longest time and greatest effort to learn

Anty Ep | 07-05-2007 09:27 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by damoc (Post 655184) I think anty eps advice is worth its weight in gold not just 2 cents the only thing you can realy be sure to have or take with you wtshtf is your knowledge and skills and they are what take the longest time and greatest effort to learn
And I think that you have provided people some links that are worth noting here. http://www.damoc.com/data/imfo.htm I can see that your survival skills are extensive. Consider too how a special skill like beekeeping will ALWAYS be important anywhere there is agriculture. Here is a person who's got life skills that they can use whether "TSHTF" or not. Here's another great link I found that sums it up well, thanks DAMOC: Quote:
Beware Of Weird Sites that advocate training you to become a refugee with a 3 day "Bug Out Bag" on your back. Have A Plan It's All About Personal Responsibility. Get off your duff and get out and PRACTICE!! We must prepare for the worst and work for the best. What are YOU doing for your community? 12+ Years and Still Growing! Think of [Alpha/Rubicon] as the "MythBusters" of the survivalist community Debra, For Claire Wolfe Do you have a vague plan to pack a "Bug Out Bag" and "Head for the Hills"? See Why It Doesn't Work! A person that "Bugs out" with No Pre-stocked place to go is called a "Refugee" Click here to get THE MAIN MESSAGE OF PREPAREDNESS.
http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/themainmessage.htm Quote:
By: Warlord 11 February 2007 I get a LOT of e-mail daily.. telling me all that people have learned by reading our site, and all they THINK they know about Preparedness from reading other survival sites (and many have gotten the wrong basic ideas)... I think many people are missing THE MAIN MESSAGE that we are trying to convey.. Information we have learned after MANY people have spent a LOT of time and money actually trying, and doing, this stuff... so I thought I'd spell it out.... No Matter what else you learn here, Start with this: "STORE WHAT YOU NORMALLY EAT"... Not "Storage food you never even tried", and that might tear up your stomach... in an emergency you DO NOT want to make radical changes to your Diet (or lifestyle)...There are MANY articles here on how to store everyday foods, and the shelf life of canned foods, and information on cans and other packaging, etc, etc. You know what your family normally uses around your house in a month, simply buy more of it, not expensive (and useless) "Pre-packaged/boxed Storage foods". Put the new stuff in the back of the pantry, and eat from the front of the pantry.. then you always have a reserve of "Normal ol Food".. doesn't matter if it's a hurricane or a lay off, you'll eat the same as you do right now. "IF YOU LEAVE HOME WITHOUT A PLACE TO GO, YOU ARE A REFUGEE. BUG OUT BAGS AND 'HEADING FOR THE HILLS TO LIVE OFF THE LAND' DOESN'T WORK"... We have MANY articles about WHY it doesn't work, but forget "Hunting and trapping and 'living in Remote Areas'". There is no such thing as "Remote areas" in the Lower 48 states... Africa, Asia, the Steps of Russia, etc, are TRULY remote areas, and they were ALWAYS hit by waves of smallpox and other plagues carried by humans AND/OR Animals! Nothing in the Lower 48 is "really remote", it's a false sense of security if that's what you are depending on (Again, details in MANY articles here).. "Living in the Country in a small self-sustaining community is better".. but it's not the "End all Answer". It's better than living in the city.. but it's not a protection by itself, it simply gives you an edge IF YOU PREPARE FURTHER (And yet again, more detailed articles explain this).. Remember, when city people get scared, they blindly "Head for the country".. right to where YOU are living (if you go the "Remote country living" route). Is the cost of living in the country worth the little added extra protection? Only you can decide that.. personally I simply prefer NOT living in crowded places, but at the same time, I know my little country town may FILL UP with people fleeing the cities, and I have prepared for that. IF YOU THINK YOU WILL BE FORCED OUT OF YOUR HOME, HAVE A PRE-PREPARED BACK-UP RETREAT AREA TO GO TO... and I don't mean some vague plan to "Do something on some empty land you know about"... Some sites would prepare you (and millions of others) to be headed toward state parks and other wooded areas with a bag of junk on your back... the roads will be jammed with people trying this.. within a few days, the land will be stripped bare, and the whole area will be a stinking mess (Not to mention the thieving and such that will be going on). If you aren't LIVING a Preparedness lifestyle right now (even if you live in the suburbs or city right now you can still live a "Preparedness Lifestyle") then you NEED to have a well stocked retreat of some sort and SOLID plans to get there in an emergency... leave NOTHING to chance.. always be able to say, "If this fails, then I will _____ as a back-up" ALMOST EVERY PREP ITEM YOU HAVE SHOULD BE USED IN YOUR EVERYDAY LIFE. Then during a disaster, you are already used to using the item, and you don't have to change your routine, or learn new things while in a stressful situation... this frees up TIME, this allows you to THINK. NEVER buy a prep item and simply pack it away un-tried and un-tested... USE IT. We've been through MANY disasters.. one thing struck me as "Common to all disasters".. It's not so much the disaster itself that causes us the most problems, as it is the disruption to our normal way of life caused by cutting power, cutting access to food and water, etc. If WE can supply those things ourselves, the impact of the disaster, and problems dealing with the AFTERMATH of the disaster, is GREATLY reduced.. There.. Short, and to the point... Your Home should be stocked as your retreat, You should also have a back-up retreat if at ALL possible, and a SURE FIRED, TESTED way to get there FAST... everything else on this site is details and additions... these BASIC facts, and much more to flesh out the above facts, can be found in the THOUSANDS of articles on our site... but the above should be your bedrock... not "Bags of Survival Crap, and MREs, and heading for the wilderness with a refugee bag strapped to your back". It's not as cool as assault rifles and a million rounds of ammo and cammo paint and crates of MREs, but it's MUCH more realistic and workable, not to mention TESTED and PROVEN to work through MANY disasters... rather than just "Something everyone knows because they saw it on TV movies" (it HAS to be real, it was on a TV show! ;). Warlord

keehah | 07-05-2007 10:25 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Things are getting so I can't tell GIM from BBC! Altough I don't know why all the great postings at GIM had yet to inform me of lesson number 8! :) -k Lessons from our ancestors about the countryside By Megan Lane BBC News Magazine http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4163982.stm Living the 1620s life For a year five experts ditched theory for practice, running a Welsh farm using 17th Century methods. What lessons for modern living did they learn? The BBC series Tales from the Green Valley follows historians and archaeologists as they recreate farm life from the age of the Stuarts. They wear the clothes, eat the food and use the tools, skills and technology of the 1620s. It was a time when daily life was a hard grind, intimately connected with the physical environment where routines were dictated by the weather and the seasons. A far cry from today's experience of the countryside, which for many involves a bracing walk ahead of a pub lunch. While few would choose to live a 17th Century lifestyle, the participants found they picked up some valuable tips for modern life. 1. Know thy neighbours. Today it's possible to live alone, without knowing anyone within a 20-mile radius (the same goes for townies). That was simply not possible in the past - not only did the neighbours provide social contact, people shared labour, specialist skills and produce. "And women were judged on good neighbourliness," says historian Ruth Goodman. "If you were willing to help others - particularly during and after childbirth - then others would be more prepared to help you in times of need." 2. Share the load. It was nigh on impossible to run a 1620s farm single-handedly, and the family - either blood relatives, or a farmer, his wife and hired help - had to be multi-skilled. Labour, too, was often divided along gender lines, but at busy periods, such as harvest time, it was all hands on deck. http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...washing203.jpg The secret to clean clothes? Water and bashing 3. Fewer creature comforts have some benefits. No electricity meant once daylight faded, work stopped in favour of conversation, music-making and knitting. And no carpets meant fewer dust mites, which are linked to asthma and allergies. "They scattered herbs on the floor which released scent when trodden on - this drove out flies and other insects," says Ms Goodman. 4. Eat seasonally. Today it's because of "food miles" and the inferior quality of forced products. In the 1620s, it was because foods were only available at certain times of year - and not just fruit and veg. Mutton, for instance, was in abundance in spring, soon after shearing time. This was because a sheep's wool quality plunges after eight years - thus animals of that age were killed after their final fleece was removed. 5. Tasty food comes in small batches. Today farmers' markets are a tourist attraction and many delight in regional specialities. For these producers play to the strengths of their ingredients, unlike, for instance, the makers of mass-produced cheese. This has to taste the same year-round, despite seasonal variations in milk quality. "So high-quality milk in the spring is downgraded so the finished product is consistent throughout the year," says Ms Goodman. 6. Reuse and recycle. Today we throw away vast mountains of packaging, food, garden waste and other materials. In 1620s, there was a use for everything, with tattered bed linens made into fire-lighters and animal fat into soap. Even human waste had uses. Faeces was a fertiliser, and urine was stored to make ammonia to remove laundry stains. 7. Dress for practicalities. Today fashion and social convention dictate our wardrobes. While polar fleeces and high-performance tramping boots may be all the rage when going rural, the wardrobe of 400 years ago proved more comfortable. "While the crew shivered in their modern garb, we never felt the cold in just two layers - a linen shirt and woollen doublet," says archaeologist Alex Langlands. Breeches meant no wet and muddy trouser legs, and staying covered up - rather than stripping off in the heat - prevented bites, stings, sunburn and scratches. 8. Corsets, not bras. "By that I don't mean Victorian corseting," says Ms Goodman. "Corsets support your back as well as your chest, and don't leave red welts on your skin like bra elastic does. They made it hard to breath walking up hills, but I get short of breath doing that anyway. And most people feel sexy in a corset." 9. Biodiversity protects against unforeseen calamity. While the developed world no longer counts the cost of crop failure in starvation and mass migration - the result of Ireland's Great Potato Famine in 1845 - the 2001 foot-and-mouth crisis decimated farms up and down the country as animals, the farmers' livelihoods, were put to death. The 1620s farm had grains, fruit and vegetables, and a range of animals - if one failed, alternatives were available. 9. Reliance on any one thing leaves you vulnerable. Hence the country ground to a halt during the petrol blockades of 2000, and a shortage of coal during 1978-9's Winter of Discontent caused electricity shortages. On the 1620s farm, when oxen used to plough fields fell ill, the implements were reshaped and horses did the job instead. 10. No pesticides means a richer variety of birds, butterflies and other insects, many of which feast on pests - a result as desirable for the gardener as the farmer. And the hedgerow and fields of wild flowers of the past are today making a comeback, as these provide habitats for these creatures and allow edible plants to flourish.

Merlin | 07-05-2007 10:44 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf I especially liked the observation that there aren't any remote places left in the lower 48 states. Recently I had read that the furthest you can get from the nearest highway is someplace in Yellowstone Park that is a whole 20 miles from the nearest road. So much for "getting away from it all."

Kahlil Gibran | 07-05-2007 11:03 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf 1 Attachment(s) Attachment 30400 A few decades ago on teevee was The Walton Family every week struggling during the Great Depression. Three generations living together rural. Gramps and Granny babysat and helped out. Mentored. Kids represented a commitment to the future...the meaning of Life itself. Before imagining that you will somehow suddenly bond with your neighbors wtshtf consider why you don't do that already now with your own family. Consider why your neighbors don't do that with their own family. America today presents us with old people as basically useless eaters draining their grandchildren via Social Security and Medicare and the National Debt. Common decency and common sense are not so common anymore. I wonder if the neighbors who wave at us on their way to the Mall are a viable resource. :stickyman :puke: :favorites21: :cryin2: :bash: :boxing: :bawling: :sheep: :cheers: <--- one week after tshtf

David Merrill | 07-05-2007 11:31 PM
one of many tips 1 Attachment(s) Here's a great one - Purslane. Compare: http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20g0.html http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c20gM.html This stuff grows all over the place. You have to try it for about anything that ails you. It is a multivitamin and even indicates to stop the progression of breast cancer. It shrinks the prostate and restores a night's sleep and urine flow to youth. Regards, David Merrill.

Maddie | 07-06-2007 02:34 AM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 655265) Before imagining that you will somehow suddenly bond with your neighbors wtshtf consider why you don't do that already now with your own family. Consider why your neighbors don't do that with their own family.
Some of us do. My family is my survival group. Luckily, most of them are like-minded. One of my sisters and my mother isn't. My father isn't, but could make the transition in a heartbeat. My other sister, her husband, his parents, my mother-in-law, and two brothers-in-law prep, though. There are some great skill sets and resources in the group, too. We've got most of the bases covered, I think. One of my sisters is kind of a nutcase, but she's mellowing with age. The rest of us work together well. My youngest sister and I are pretty close. I also live in a great neighborhood. The houses are older and small, so there aren't many kids. It's mostly older couples who have lived here for decades (my next-door neighbor has lived there for 50 years, as have several other neighbors on my block) and know each other well, having lived most of their lives on the same street. The rest are mostly gay couples or childless couples. We've been here for 17 years, so we know our neighbors pretty well. We have block parties and group yard sales and such, and the young couples share babysitting duties among themselves. When a tree falls or the creek floods, everyone pitches in to help, regardless of time of day or night. During the last ice storm, people were sharing generators and supplies. Mind you, an ice storm is a short-term event, but I think most of us could pull together in a larger disaster if we had to. We also have some flood plain land in several areas of the neighborhood that could be used for community gardening, large yards (also good for gardening), several large creeks, and a lot of big old hardwood trees. It wouldn't be easy, but I think this neighborhood might have a fighting chance. We're already organized enough to handle small emergencies, parties, and zoning crises, and we even have our own newsletter, complete with a bartering column.

Ghost Recon | 07-06-2007 08:56 AM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Boots....I'd go buy 2 pair of lightweight hiking boots now. I wear them every day and will never wear tennis shoes or sandals again. Go to a backpacking/camping store and buy quality.

jrog100 | 07-06-2007 09:16 AM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf I think a fine shotgun or pistola would be the first thing on my list.

Anty Ep | 07-06-2007 12:50 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 655265) Attachment 30400 A few decades ago on teevee was The Walton Family every week struggling during the Great Depression. Three generations living together rural. Gramps and Granny babysat and helped out. Mentored. Kids represented a commitment to the future...the meaning of Life itself. Before imagining that you will somehow suddenly bond with your neighbors wtshtf consider why you don't do that already now with your own family. Consider why your neighbors don't do that with their own family.
excellent post and nice analogy to the Waltons. But in my neighborhood people do have families. if you live in a sterile neighborhood, I am sorry about that. I am lucky in that a lot of people in my neighborhood are actually from the area, know lots of people going back decades, may have gone to the same schools and churches and so forth. You wouldnt know it because it just looks like any other suburb in nowhere Midwest USA, big yards, no sidewalks, lol, but actually there are a lot of ties that bind. I have no doubt that in the lack of 24hr copper babysitting, my neighbors would get along fine. We know the outsiders. And in a pinch I could quickly organize what it would take to limit incursions by roving bands of malicious savages. :D Partly because I have taken the time to get to know people. This is called "intelligence" and there's no better people to learn about than those who are within walking distance. It's easy, just go out and meet them and open the ears and shut the mouth. It's amazing what one can learn.

Juristic Person | 07-06-2007 06:25 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlvs2run (Post 654398) If you had no preparations but $10,000 U.S. to invest, how would you prepare for wtshtf, other than water and food. Which would you get first, and in what proportion of the R10,000 overall? Anything else not mentioned here? first aid kit flashlight signal mirror backpack seeds pennies nickels dimes quarters or would you ignore u.s. coins? silver coins - what kind, denominations and how much gold coins what else
Fuel and Ammo

Juristic Person | 07-06-2007 06:28 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 654596) I HEARD Richard Nixon on TV in 1970 saying "Bread will NEVER be a DOLLAR a loaf !! Gas will NEVER be a DOLLAR a gallon".......
Actually, he was right.

Baphomet Jones | 07-06-2007 08:30 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Go into a gunshop and act out this scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H47QlGq3zQ4 Well, except for the last part. But thats all you need to survive. Try E-Bay for a good deal on a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. Westinghouse still makes them. :bear_w00t: Also, the advice (excluding mine) is pretty good, so this deserved a bump anyway.

money matters | 07-08-2007 04:28 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Pretty hard for me to consider that anyone who lives more than 30mi from town, (and due to internet etc many can & do), would not be "prepared". What does "prepared" mean? If you are at some distance from the suburbs, you are likely halfway safe. Pretty hard to live even semi-remote and not be somewhat self-sufficient. You stock up on goods and food so you're not driving your ass off to get stuff. You keep your infrastructure up to speed and learn how to repair it. Maybe you think about "what if's" and get a cistern or some barrels to collect rain water, a water filter/purifier, some guns & camping gear, a backup genset or solar power system.... You also keep medical supplies, clothing, all other things you need to run your household. Maybe you have a vacation house? Kinda the same thing, but on a smaller scale. All you gotta do is get there! Even if you're remote/retired, or retreating; you gotta be there! Not much good to be in town when the lockdown comes, you gotta be at your place. What if you don't have a place to go? What kinda shit hitting the fan are you planning for??? How many are there in your group? Got children to plan for? Lots of questions. If you are concerned enough to begin planning to escape the city, you're talking bout Bugging Out. Even if your going to your vacation place when tshtf, you're a refugee with a bug-out plan. If you hit the road early enough, you might make it. Looks to me that RIGHT NOW you ought to be finalizing your packing and monitoring when to depart. Gotta have that Line In The Sand, that trigger which you will not ignore that initiates your planning into action. No one plans to fail, they just fail to plan; or fail to act on their plans! You'll likely only get one bite at this apple. You can't be afraid of being wrong if being right means everything. Being wrong with your bug-out timing might be inconvenient, embarassing; but not going could spoil all the rest of your days.... Think of a false alarm as a Dry Run, a Shakedown to get the kinks out. Got $$$ but no place to go? Maybe you ought to take up Camping? Car camping, RVing, backpacking; all are respectable Summertime vacation activities, take guns and you're on a hunting trip! A great way to depart for parts unknown with much of what you need for self-sufficiency. Car camping and RVing offer the most potential. Pull a trailer, maybe you own a nice HD diesel pickup truck or SUV? A 300hp diesel motorhome can easily pull a 14 foot tandem axle cargo trailer. 8000 lbs of gear and food can go a long way. Pack a YURT in there and survive on BLM land or some remote national forest in style. Have your spouse or buddy drive their vehicles. You're going camping, and will arrive in style! Low on bux? (Who isn't?) The RV solution can still work for you. Look at Ebay, Craigslist, and your local trader sheets for an older (early 80's) RV. They frequently are well maintained by owners who always meant to do more RVing but didn't find the time, and now just want a couple of grand from somebody to drive the thing away. Lots of these babies with under 50k miles and in pretty good shape. You only need it to get you where you're going, but don't buy a junker. Consider those who were refugees because of Katrina and Rita. Clogged hiways, no resources in outlying medium towns. People went all the way to Denver from the Houston area to escape Rita, and find a motel room. If you have an RV, your home goes with you, just load up your last minute stuff, hitch your trailer and boogie. Just remember, you gotta beat the crowd; and maybe you have alternate routes picked out all along the way. Nice to have that diesel so your fuel will last a couple years w/minimal care. Remember, your needs are to stay dry, hydrated, warm/comfortable, and fed. It doesn't matter what you got, so much as you plan to use what resources you have. With a few minor improvements, much of the stuff in your home or apt will serve your needs. Those who will be survivors are those with foresight to act on their GO Signal, not those who bought the best gear.

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hystckndle | 07-08-2007 09:48 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by Juristic Person (Post 656046) Actually, he was right.
Heh heh :D :D :D :D :D

hystckndle | 07-08-2007 09:52 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 657385) Pretty hard for me to consider that anyone who lives more than 30mi from town, (and due to internet etc many can & do), would not be "prepared".What does "prepared" mean? If you are at some distance from the suburbs, you are likely halfway safe. Pretty hard to live even semi-remote and not be somewhat self-sufficient. You stock up on goods and food so you're not driving your ass off to get stuff. You keep your infrastructure up to speed and learn how to repair it. Maybe you think about "what if's" and get a cistern or some barrels to collect rain water, a water filter/purifier, some guns & camping gear, a backup genset or solar power system.... You also keep medical supplies, clothing, all other things you need to run your household.Maybe you have a vacation house? Kinda the same thing, but on a smaller scale. All you gotta do is get there! Even if you're remote/retired, or retreating; you gotta be there! Not much good to be in town when the lockdown comes, you gotta be at your place.What if you don't have a place to go? What kinda shit hitting the fan are you planning for??? How many are there in your group? Got children to plan for? Lots of questions.If you are concerned enough to begin planning to escape the city, you're talking bout Bugging Out. Even if your going to your vacation place when tshtf, you're a refugee with a bug-out plan. If you hit the road early enough, you might make it. Looks to me that RIGHT NOW you ought to be finalizing your packing and monitoring when to depart. Gotta have that Line In The Sand, that trigger which you will not ignore that initiates your planning into action. No one plans to fail, they just fail to plan; or fail to act on their plans! You'll likely only get one bite at this apple. You can't be afraid of being wrong if being right means everything. Being wrong with your bug-out timing might be inconvenient, embarassing; but not going could spoil all the rest of your days.... Think of a false alarm as a Dry Run, a Shakedown to get the kinks out. Got $$$ but no place to go? Maybe you ought to take up Camping? Car camping, RVing, backpacking; all are respectable Summertime vacation activities, take guns and you're on a hunting trip! A great way to depart for parts unknown with much of what you need for self-sufficiency. Car camping and RVing offer the most potential. Pull a trailer, maybe you own a nice HD diesel pickup truck or SUV? A 300hp diesel motorhome can easily pull a 14 foot tandem axle cargo trailer. 8000 lbs of gear and food can go a long way. Pack a YURT in there and survive on BLM land or some remote national forest in style. Have your spouse or buddy drive their vehicles. You're going camping, and will arrive in style! Low on bux? (Who isn't?) The RV solution can still work for you. Look at Ebay, Craigslist, and your local trader sheets for an older (early 80's) RV. They frequently are well maintained by owners who always meant to do more RVing but didn't find the time, and now just want a couple of grand from somebody to drive the thing away. Lots of these babies with under 50k miles and in pretty good shape. You only need it to get you where you're going, but don't buy a junker. Consider those who were refugees because of Katrina and Rita. Clogged hiways, no resources in outlying medium towns. People went all the way to Denver from the Houston area to escape Rita, and find a motel room. If you have an RV, your home goes with you, just load up your last minute stuff, hitch your trailer and boogie. Just remember, you gotta beat the crowd; and maybe you have alternate routes picked out all along the way. Nice to have that diesel so your fuel will last a couple years w/minimal care. Remember, your needs are to stay dry, hydrated, warm/comfortable, and fed. It doesn't matter what you got, so much as you plan to use what resources you have. With a few minor improvements, much of the stuff in your home or apt will serve your needs. Those who will be survivors are those with foresight to act on their GO Signal, not those who bought the best gear.
Anyone who is interested in this stuff would be wise to check out some of Money Matters' posts as well as those by TN Andy, Wallew etc etc....even the really old ones from Irish Gold I have saved in a binder. Matters and Andy have a bead on long term self sufficiency that alludes most. JMHO Regards Haystackneedle

Anty Ep | 07-09-2007 04:25 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf here is something I dont understand about "survivalism" in the past few decades. all the fixiation on stockpiling guns for "WTSHTF" or "TEOTWAWKI" I dig guns and have been a big shooter for a long time. I got more than one too. But consider this. If the whole nation collapses a la Mad Max, what you should really want to do is not try and slither off into oblivion and live like Grizzly Adams, but what about say getting together a few friends and going down to that unguarded arms depot maintained by the collapsed government and laying hold of those arms yerselves rather than letting the bad guys have em? How many rifles are you going to need to do that? One for each person on your team, max. What you will really need less than a bunch of inert weapons is a team of operators who can use them. Here's another thing. Lets say something like Katrina or the LA riots sink all of California into oblivion. Well, how many "WALMARTS" will be standing unguarded and open for looting? I do not condone looting but if we posit a complete and total civil breakdown on a prolonged basis then we are back to the Hobbesian war of all against all. But if you have a team of operators ready then you will be able to lay hold of whatever you need and then some. and the bad guys will be trying to do exactly that. Will you get there first and be stronger or will they get there first and use their loot to hunt you down? Hence back to my point in response to this thread, which is that you need to develop your ties with people first before you waste a lot of time hoarding.

Kahlil Gibran | 07-09-2007 04:51 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 658318) But if you have a team of operators ready then you will be able to lay hold of whatever you need and then some. and the bad guys will be trying to do exactly that. Will you get there first and be stronger or will they get there first and use their loot to hunt you down? Hence back to my point in response to this thread, which is that you need to develop your ties with people first before you waste a lot of time hoarding.
Two or more White Guys with guns are now considered a Militia and they are hunted by the ADL/FBI today. :shakehand two white men seen doing this is a hate group now.

Anty Ep | 07-09-2007 06:16 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 658344) Two or more White Guys with guns are now considered a Militia and they are hunted by the ADL/FBI today.
Lots of shooting clubs that have been around for a long time KG. All people have to do is go to the IDPA and USPSA matches and accept the training with mouths shut. http://www.uspsa.org/ http://www.idpa.com/ http://www.3gunmatch.com/ http://www.aurorasc.org/ It's the political free speech component that the SPLC-antimilitia laws have curtailed. Not the ability to train for dire circumstances. Though they've tried to cut that off too. My point again is this: PEOPLE are your first survival aid. SKILLS are your second. HOARDING STUFF should be a third place concern not first. By participating in local shooting events, you may be developing BOTH skills and PEOPLE networks.

money matters | 07-10-2007 07:24 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf For sure, if you are skilled and practiced at making-do, fieldcraft, alternative fuels/energy, gardening, primitive medicine, and general self-sufficiency; your efforts will be different from those who have yet to consider the problems they may face when Everything Changes Drastically. But, there is no way around having "stuff and gear". Sure, one who has Air Force E&E training or taught at Tom Brown's Tracker School knows self-reliance and confidence are key. They will see potentials where others don't. Yet, it is a bit late in the game to train and develop skill sets. If you know your vehicle needs new tires, a major overhaul and a full tank of fuel, and wait to acquire these things; in a SHTF situation, you will be outa luck! If you are going to store some food, do you study the cookbooks first or look for the best ingredients that store well in your environment and then find recipes for those foods? Sure, it would be nice to have the finest pocket folding knife and a Les Baer 1911, but having basic tools will keep you in the game; IF you take time to acquire them and study their usage. Buying gear and storing it does not convey competence with it, but you need to posess it to learn how to use it! A trained expert can make the junky basic tools in a coughlan's $10 survival kit work to their favor, but the 9-5 family guy better have a more extensive kit to be as capable of making-do, (surviving).

Brio | 07-10-2007 11:20 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Bare minimum, a heavy knife, a blanket, a waterproof tarp, bic lighters, a bag of rice, salt and a cast iron pot to carry it in. Multiply by 20 and you'll get by.

NOOB | 08-05-2007 08:56 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 658427) Lots of shooting clubs that have been around for a long time KG. All people have to do is go to the IDPA and USPSA matches and accept the training with mouths shut. http://www.uspsa.org/ http://www.idpa.com/ http://www.3gunmatch.com/ http://www.aurorasc.org/ It's the political free speech component that the SPLC-antimilitia laws have curtailed. Not the ability to train for dire circumstances. Though they've tried to cut that off too. My point again is this: PEOPLE are your first survival aid. SKILLS are your second. HOARDING STUFF should be a third place concern not first. By participating in local shooting events, you may be developing BOTH skills and PEOPLE networks.
In my local ipsc club they might as well be bowling. I don't think half the members are goa or nra members. Its just a sport, it could be lawn darts or badminton. I didn't get the team of operators vibe from this bunch. Can they shoot paper rapidly? Yes. I imagine they don't have a self defense handgun, just the speed guns. We had a shoot what you carry night but they got rid of it because everyone was shooting with there race gun anyway and most don't carry. Maybe other clubs or disciplines are better, I dont know. NOOB

Merlin | 08-05-2007 09:15 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Sharon Down on the Farm, a regular poster on the RunningOnEmpty2 forum, once argued that it is remarkably difficult to freeze to death, even in unheated space. Her point was that when you're awake and physically active, staying warm (if not actually comfortable), is possible if you're properly dressed. Then, you need a warm place to sleep. So I decided that sleeping bags are an absolute necessity. Mine are rated to -15 degrees F. Plan on using flannel liners to help keep them clean. If you look around you can find just what you need at really affordable prices (less than $100 each). Other than my food storage, I can't think of another single purchase that gives me the comfort of mind as my sleeping bags.

Anty Ep | 08-06-2007 01:58 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by NOOB (Post 686194) In my local ipsc club they might as well be bowling. I don't think half the members are goa or nra members. Its just a sport, it could be lawn darts or badminton. I didn't get the team of operators vibe from this bunch. Can they shoot paper rapidly? Yes. I imagine they don't have a self defense handgun, just the speed guns. We had a shoot what you carry night but they got rid of it because everyone was shooting with there race gun anyway and most don't carry. Maybe other clubs or disciplines are better, I dont know. NOOB
that is IPSC alright, you need to check into IDPA and USPSA. those are more practical accuracy oriented. I got to about three different matches within a 50 mile radius. if you are out west its prolly less dense than that; out east they're probably more dense are IPDA shooters serious? I think so. I have only been to a couple IPSC matches, about half of the regulars shoot both. In these matches I got to there are numerous veterans. One old bastid is a real tack driver with the 45 acp wheelgun, and a total right winger, another guy looks just like Jeff Cooper, and he is a retired noncomm officer in the USMC, and a frequent winner of state matches in the old dude division. LOL I wouldnt want to be on the wrong end of the pipe with either one of these. there are some middle aged guys that are all pretty low key dudes, who are amazingly good, but hardly any cops. very few under 40 and most of those are not so good. why is this? I'll tell you why. Family life is the usual weekend occuapation in your 30s and by the time you hit 40s you usually do as you please. I dont get out much because of my own family requirements but try to go 2x a year, at least. PS hardly any cops, ever. cops dont want to try and square off against amateur shootists in a match because they know damn well they will get spanked. LOL

TheSimpleton | 08-10-2007 11:56 AM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Hmm, so much on this thread. What you need is a game plan. What I would do with my age, skills, and desires to prepare is not what you would do. Along those lines, the thinking it all through is more important than the buying/hoarding. Without a plan, your preparations will go sour or be stolen from you due to inexperience. The most important thing you're going to find is to be a useful person. A welder, animal husbandry, jack-of-all trades, M.D., mad scientist, the leader/go-to guy in your peers, or whatever. If you had nothing, but came on a neighborhood of others, this alone would secure your position. Of course, being that guy already living his independent, prepared life would be better... My feeling, after thinking about this for many years, is that low-level survival skills are really the key, but not for the reason you might think. Learn how to live in Pre-Columbian America, or Bronze Age Europe, not this crazy SAS training which only works if you have a rescue helicopter to return to. The reason this works is that once you are comfortable on that level, you can never be disturbed. Evicted? Dispossessed? Refugee? Wanted man? All you need is before you, easily found with a tin can, a sliver of broken glass, and a damp puddle. Shortly, you can make it into a home, however grand or humble you desire. You will not FEAR what happens. To you, to the country, to your preps, etc. You cannot be controlled, flushed out, blackmailed. Once you have this foundation in mind, then sure, having hand tools, seeds, etc are great, working your way up from an 11th c wool cloak and brogies to a covered wagon and poll-axe technology, to the handsaw and onward to the screw gun and wonders of RVs without missing a beat. Thinking this, if I had the most important priorities, I'd have only two: 1) safety, either via distance, neighbors, stable area, etc, and 2) WATER. I can pretty much make do with anything else once I'm sure it's not stolen or myself run off. I can even make soil. But water is a base element. Again, the bronze age, the native ways: wood is your next item, then foods, starting with what lives near you, can be encouraged, then hunted or planted and grown. From that point of view, $10k goes a long way. But it might be lost in your first purchase of debt-free land. Given that, and an estwing, I can make everything else. ...And that's a life. TS

platinumdude | 08-10-2007 01:19 PM
Re: how would you prepare for wtshtf Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlvs2run (Post 655103) Of course I want to defend myself and also keep a low profile. The thing is, I can envision dead people laying all over near my house and am not so sure that would be good. Plus eventually the military could come in and bomb the place anyway. Does everyone agree about having a gun, and are there any alternatives to having them?
Some people will cut the heads off and put them on sticks around the yard to serve as a warning. Or only Mayans did that?

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