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electric-amish | 05-13-2007 07:54 PM
Commander sized 1911s I have seen the most beautiful Commander sized 1911. I have never shot one and was wondering what people think of them.http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/...ge_procdp2.jpg Can you get back on target quickly? Do they Kick more than full size? Are they worth having compared to a full size? Do they jamb or fail more or less? I am new to this size 1911 and have no idea about real experience with them. The shop owner says they are great and accurate and its all good. Appreciate some input. Electric-Amish

Au_Ag | 05-13-2007 07:58 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 605139) I have seen the most beautiful Commander sized 1911. I have never shot one and was wondering what people think of them.
The commanders are fine - main difference is size interms of carrying. Function is reliable - dunno about value. Acquiring targets, returning to target are only slightly different than a full size. Probably the only difference worth considering is the shorter sight radius, IMHO this is unlikely to matter to anyone other than a competitor. While sight radius relates more to accuracy than many people might think, I cannot see how it would be a substantial difference on a carry gun. I own a commander, shot it in matches prior to having custom guns built. It did fine. I personally would rather have/carry a commander than an Officers Model. They are getting a little too short for me to be comfortable with.

electric-amish | 05-13-2007 08:04 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s This pistol seemed to grab me when I picked it up off the counter. Its a Kimber CDP pro II. I have never had such a reaction before when picking up a pistol. Its not cheap and I still don't have a pistol yet but man this was uncanny. Electric-Amish

Au_Ag | 05-13-2007 08:08 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s BTW, recoil is not really an issue on a .45 with any standard loading. I dunno why that myth has been around so much, so long. Particularly if you use a good grip If you go to the quoted thread, I posted some pics. Quote:
Originally Posted by Au_Ag (Post 541125) This may be more than you wanted to know _grin_, but trust me - this will help a great deal _bigger grin_ for right handed shooter make a U with your right hand Move in high and grip the gun with your right hand Wrap your left hand over notice left hand cants down - can feel odd - partly depends on hand size Detail on how right thumb and left palm line up - with the left hand canted down - notice that the knuckle of your right thumb will line up right behind the thumb joint of your left hand - which allows the fleshy part of your left palm to line up with the indentation formed between the knuckle and thumb joint of your right thumb With everything firmly held together - note that joints, knuckles, fingertips all line up in a manner that supports and doesn't slip around - Bring the gun to eye level - keep your head erect, bring the gun up to eye level - good line of sight - Most shooters, particularly beginners, don't want to ring it all the way up - it doesn't feel natural, feels high - they want to bend their head and neck down - you'll shoot better with it high.. let your left thumb just point straight forward without resting it on the frame - you'll be more accurate. The pictures look like I'm resting my left thumb on the frame - I'm not. I tried to do each line/paragraph right above each picture, but didn't figure it out - I think you can follow

Wyldwil | 05-13-2007 08:09 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Kimber is sweet...

kolya | 05-13-2007 08:15 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyldwil (Post 605151) Kimber is sweet...
If series I and with an internal extractor, then I agree.

Au_Ag | 05-13-2007 08:19 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Quote:
Originally Posted by kolya (Post 605158) If series I and with an internal extractor, then I agree.
I dunno about specifics, but Kimber did have some problems with their 1911 clones early on - I assume they have made corrections by now. Or is their cure worse than the disease?

TUMS | 05-13-2007 08:46 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s I am buying a Kimber Tactical Pro II. Just as soon as I get done paying off the Benelli Cordoba 20 guage.. My dad has a Colt combat commander. It's very fun & accurate.

electric-amish | 05-13-2007 08:52 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Quote:
Originally Posted by TUMS (Post 605183) I am buying a Kimber Tactical Pro II. Just as soon as I get done paying off the Benelli Cordoba 20 guage.. My dad has a Colt combat commander. It's very fun & accurate.
They have nearly the same features except the CDP is rounded or smoothed---they call it Melted. I found a picture of it on Kimber web site. http://www.kimberamerica.com/images/...large_pro2.jpg

TUMS | 05-13-2007 08:59 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s I like the gray look it has. I hope i'm not being racist or anything. lol

electric-amish | 05-13-2007 09:04 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s I think thats important. I really like the way the other looks. I wonder if they would be a good choice if SHTF or would a high cap 40 or 9mm be better? E-A

TUMS | 05-13-2007 09:23 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s .45 is a good round. It will knock someone down and keep them down better than a .40. If you get the Kimber .45 just get 4 or 5 extra magazines and keep them loaded.

MOD1 | 05-13-2007 09:32 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s E-A, My first sidearm - and I still have it. Colt Combat Commander .45 ACP. I purchased this new on 07/05/78 for the sum of $230.90. She's a little loose now - I can't remember how may rounds are through her. Times have changed - a lot more offerings out there today. I have been told (no proof) that barrel lengths shorter than commander length in 1911 style pistols can have jamming problems - but again, I have no proof. I've never had a lick of problems with her and she recoils about the same as a full size model. I think you would be happy with either a Commander or Full size model. Have you looked at Springfield Armory 1911 pistols? Generally good quality at a modest price. Take care, Mod1

REV127 | 05-13-2007 09:32 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Quote:
Originally Posted by TUMS (Post 605203) .45 is a good round. It will knock someone down and keep them down better than a .40. If you get the Kimber .45 just get 4 or 5 extra magazines and keep them loaded.
That's just silly. Not as silly as the fact that I know better but still occassionally find myself responding to this kind of thing, though.

electric-amish | 05-13-2007 09:38 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s REV your killin me!! What do you think is high cap of a 9 or 40 better than the 45? Its a capacity question. Figure concealed carry with 2 extra mags and being in a get out of the area quick type scenario. E-A

sneak | 05-13-2007 10:13 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s That Pro CDP is sweet! I've got a couple Commander sized Kimbers and I would recommend one.

REV127 | 05-13-2007 10:21 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 605219) REV your killin me!! What do you think is high cap of a 9 or 40 better than the 45? Its a capacity question. Figure concealed carry with 2 extra mags and being in a get out of the area quick type scenario. E-A
There is no such thing as knockdown power so that isn't a factor. There are psychological stops, but those are entirely up to the badguy and not in your power to control. That leaves actual physiological stops, the only way you're going to achieve that is to place rounds on critical targets with enough penetration to do dammage. There isn't enough of a difference in terminal effect between the 9mm, .40 or .45 to waste your time worrying over. Training and experience will give you your performance. You'd be suprised how close 9x18 stoked with 110's comes to these three in terms of practical ability. The caliber wars are just too silly and there is more hype and BS regarding stopping power than any other single subject I can think of with the exception of anti-gun advocacy. It'd be a lot more interesting if they introduced new characters that actually had appreciably different real world effects, like the 7.62x25 for instance.

Au_Ag | 05-13-2007 10:33 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 605260) There is no such thing as knockdown power so that isn't a factor.......................There isn't enough of a difference in terminal effect between the 9mm, .40 or .45 to waste your time worrying over................
With appropriate ammo - any can do the job - most/many won't bother with getting/paying for appropriate ammo - plus, you start getting into reliability/function issues with some non-standard loads, if the gun is not tuned for them There have been some relatively scientific studies made - indicating the differences - So I must disagree with the many in which you phrased it. A definitive source, IMHO http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=2 If you register and make that specific post as you worded it, I expect you will get a lively discussion going. Wanna discuss Au/Ag? Come to GIM. Wanna discuss the merits or lack thereof of stopping power? Go to stoppingpower.net. I do agree that tactics and traing are paramount - last but not least - one of the benefits of the .45 is that it is less likely to overpenetrate.

REV127 | 05-13-2007 10:56 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s I'd call stoppingpower.net more of a suggestive source than a definitive source, especially considering the original work it was founded on. I thought it was general knowledge at this point that Marshall and Sannow's data set is highly flawed, as well as the entire premise of the one shot stop. Still, it is much better than many forums which can be looneytunes ridiculous. I've actually seen the occasional post on that forum that says about the same thing I said. At any rate I don't particularly need theorists to confirm or deny practical experience. Jello and similar experiments are interesting for pure comparison, though. I agree on having a good load that expands and penetrates, makes sense and I can afford a few bucks to fill my magazines with good stuff. Truth is though, that effect will mostly only be seen in metrics. Stopping badguys comes down to piercing critical targets. Overpenetration is kind of a red herring. Overpenetration against what? The innocent bystander you just hit with a wild shot? The badguy you struck square in the chest? The car or dumpster you have to shoot through to get the guy/s who has you pinned down? I'd agree that a rifle doesn't have a place as a go-to gun in an apartment complex made mostly of drywall. I am assuming you understand the difference between knockdown and a stop when I say there's no such thing as knockdown power in the class of sidearms we're discussing. A .308 doesn't even have enough energy over a long enough period of time to put you on your butt, though the terminal effect of a well placed bullet might be able to do the trick.

Au_Ag | 05-13-2007 11:14 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 605286) I am assuming you understand the difference between knockdown and a stop when I say there's no such thing as knockdown power in the class of sidearms we're discussing......
Actually, my position is probably closer to your position than that of many others - I interpreted your original post differently than I do your most recent post - possibly your choice of words, phrasing, etc and possibly the fact that I'm doing other things at the same time and didn't read you correctly - Overpenetration is an issue in an apartment building or similar. I don't believe in " one shot stop" "knockdown" or other similar things. You can get lucky with a round that goes through the neck and severs the spinal cord, etc. And, I never paid the bucks for their book. Having said that - I just like those big old fat cases of the .45 - and the 9mm just seems puny. Shot placement counts a hell of a lot more than caliber, and so do tactics and training, so I think you and I agree on more than we disagree on. FWIW, I normally use a lowly 38 special snubby for carry purposes, and a different one when I go to the door. Reason? They're small, light, unobtrusive, easily hidden, and I will make the effort to have them readily available. If no one has called, or I'm not expecting anyone - I always go to the door with a snubby held behind me, if I recognize them, it's small enough, light enough to slip into my pocket or waistband under my shirt. Plus it's easy to remember that all snubbies are always HOT weapons for sure.

mayhem | 05-13-2007 11:27 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Like I posted HERE I have two Kimbers. The Custom II, 5" barrel just works with any ammo. The Tactical Ultra II, which has a aluminum frame 3.5" ramped bull barrel has problems feeding some HP's with stock Kimber mags(cheap ChiCom mags). This is a known problem with all the 3.5"ers. I switched to Wilson Combat mags and feeding problems of any kind went away. The lightweights do jump around more than the steel framed guns. But after a couple of hundred rounds you get used to it. I have put thousands of rounds through the Ultra II, and I was the cause of any stovepipes of miss feeds, not the weapon. Oh that grey color, that is the aluminum frame. I like mine, but then I am prejudiced to Kimbers. Best advice is try to shoot one somewhere before you buy. Don't just take my or any others advice before spending THAT many FRN's. m

REV127 | 05-13-2007 11:33 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s .38's aren't so bad. On paper they look kind of anemic, there are hot .380's with as much energy. Thing is the .38 typically fires a heavier bullet that will tend to offer more penetration than the fast but very light .380 which means more access to critical targets. The 110's in 9x18 work the same way, normally the round is closer to .380 specs than 9x19 but with the heavier bullet it achieves similar penetration to the 9x19 though not the same energy levels. It was a well placed .38 that ended the Miami shootout that somehow through twisted logic got the FBI to come up with the .40sw when the real problem was combat marksmanship. No idea how clearly I'm communicating my ideas at this point. I had more caffeine than I'm used to these days and it's giving me a monster headache. Just trying to distract myself with GIM, my panacea. :coolbeer:

bl96S5eu | 05-14-2007 01:27 AM
Re: Commander sized 1911s So REV what is your caliber of choice?

REV127 | 05-14-2007 01:56 AM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Quote:
Originally Posted by bl96S5eu (Post 605377) So REV what is your caliber of choice?
I'm not sure I really have one, I just pick something appropriate to the task at hand. In a 1911 I'd be interested in a 10mm or .50GI.

bl96S5eu | 05-14-2007 02:04 AM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 605392) I'm not sure I really have one, I just pick something appropriate to the task at hand. In a 1911 I'd be interested in a 10mm or .50GI.
Just make sure you don't let it get away from you :) http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Video...er-Handgun.wmv

REV127 | 05-14-2007 02:15 AM
Re: Commander sized 1911s That is a little ridiculous.

____hoot____ | 05-14-2007 11:53 AM
Re: Commander sized 1911s If it ain't any good at getting through kevlar or precisely shooting "around" it, it's an expensive less than fully useful toy.

AMforPM | 05-14-2007 10:37 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Good ammo has changed things since the Army went from 38s to 45s for stopping power. Dad knew an old guy in Mexico who had been in a lot of shooting disputes in his ranching career, and he said he was still able to function shot with anything below 45, but the shock of the big caliber left him unable to move for a minute or two, even thinking his life depended on it. (Obviously, no one got him in the heart or head, etc, or he would not have survived a 22. Also, I have no idea if he was ever shot with 44. He mentioned 22, 38, and 45.) But that was before the specialized ammo. Now things are quite different. A 38 with a stopping load has more stopping power than a 45 with the old type ammo. AuAg that is cool that you shot in competition. Rev, I presume your experience is the kind that is for keeps, and valuable. My great uncles were in a lot of gunfights around the turn of the century ranching on the border, and always carried 45 revolvers. But again, that is before modern ammo.

Au_Ag | 05-14-2007 11:26 PM
Re: Commander sized 1911s Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM (Post 606497) AuAg that is cool that you shot in competition.
I miss it, a good bit. I shot USPSA/IPSC sometimes called Practical Shooting. There were "scenarios" or "stages" with a certain amount of balance between standards, and running and gunning. I had to quit due to time pressures from business, wasn't keeping my head above water in business - so after a couple of years, a good bit of my hearing came back. I haven't returned. The open class guns have a compensator ( muzzle brake) that tends to really increase the blast. I wore double hearing protection, custom molded ear plugs and muffs over that. Even so, after a few years they figured out that there is a certain amount of damage caused due to the sharp pulse - probably thru bone induction. They did drop the power factor back a little bit, that should help some on the blast. If I start back competing, I will need to change the tube type scopes from my open guns - they now are using the cmore open style tubeless - other than that the guns remain about the same. http://www.cmore.com/sights.html I'll tell you right now, that if I start going deaf, you're gonna see me back doing matches _really big grin_ Actually, I've been thinking about taking the limited class guns and shooting some of the IDPA matches, so maybe I'll get that together. Something about those .45's that just seem like coming home. I was thinking about this thread, and ammo, and shtf. Bottom line, for me the plain old 45 ACP 200 grain lead semiwadcutter will probably do fine for about anything - I have confidence in the load, and being able to put it where I want it.

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