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- - Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=248721)

Dave | 03-20-2008 02:15 PM
Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. All this talk about fuel storage made me think about a conversation I had about refueling your vehicle while bugging out during SHTF. There is probably a large percentage of people on GIM that have retreat locations that are not their present or full time home. In some cases you may have to travel a great many miles though not ideal to get there. This poses a few problems: 1) How do you store and transport fuel for the trip 2) How do you tactically refill 3) How do you conceal the fact you are carrying fuel Lets face it, if the SHTF odds are fuel will become scarce making anyone visibly carrying extra fuel target for attacks. I figure you would be particularly vulnerable while refueling. Here are some thoughts on the above issues: I have thought purchasing a small cargo trailer (5'x6' or larger) where you could store a couple 55 gallon drums of fuel would be ideal concealment. You could obviously use the balance of this trailer space to store other items. Of course the disadvantage of the trailer is it may limit your routes based on terrain friendly to trailers. With a large enough of a vehicle and a good axle on the trailer you can probably take it most places. Of course this leaves you with how do you refuel tactically. My first thought is that it would be best to not stop at all. Obviously refueling on the go could be dangerous, however, the constant flow of fresh air around and through the vehicle should prevent build up of flammable fumes. I would simply tap one or both barrels and run tubing through the base of the trailer, along the tongue of the trailer up and under the hitch of the vehicle eventually connecting to the fuel tank with a one way valve not to allow back flow. Obviously somewhere inline you will need a fuel pump. There is a good chance your pump will need to be directly above the fuel drums on the trailer. This would obviously require that you have a power source and control switch to power the pump from the vehicle. Being that most vehicle fuel gauges are slow to register the fuel level you probably want to never fill your vehicle over 3/4 of a tank while on the go. Being that Murphy will likely be along for the ride, I would definitely plan to have a hand pump along with adequate tubing to pump from the barrel in to the fuel port of your vehicle. What are some other ideas? This particular setup is being considered for a 1000+ mile trip with a vehicle that will likely burn 10/15 mpg while towing. Dave

Fullpower | 03-20-2008 02:26 PM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Keep a 55 gallon drum chained to the rollbar. I drove 30,000 miles trip around the country with that setup. left the drum pump installed, hose at the ready. 10 miles per gallon, 16 gallon main tank, we pulled to side of highway every 2 hours, pump fuel, piss break, back on the road in 4 minutes.

thorgrim | 03-20-2008 02:30 PM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Wow, thats quite the strategy! I never really gave it that much thought. I always thought pulling over in a quiet place and standing beside my vehicle with my LR-308 would discourage any zombies. Most peoples escape routes would be off of main roads for the most part wouldn't they?

Dave | 03-20-2008 02:32 PM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 1021432) Keep a 55 gallon drum chained to the rollbar. I drove 30,000 miles trip around the country with that setup. left the drum pump installed, hose at the ready. 10 miles per gallon, 16 gallon main tank, we pulled to side of highway every 2 hours, pump fuel, piss break, back on the road in 4 minutes.
This would obviously work just as well. Though I am concerned that pulling off the road for 4 minutes during SHTF would lead to less hospitable conditions, which it why I was considering fueling on the go. I am fairly confident if you are well armed you could dissuade most attackers but why make yourself a target in the first place if avoidable? Dave

Dave | 03-20-2008 02:37 PM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Quote:
Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 1021442) Wow, thats quite the strategy! I never really gave it that much thought. I always thought pulling over in a quiet place and standing beside my vehicle with my LR-308 would discourage any zombies. Most peoples escape routes would be off of main roads for the most part wouldn't they?
The key words to my dilemma are highlighted in what you said above. The irony is most people will think to get off the main roads which is why the back roads will still be quite busy during SHTF. Though I would probably use them to get away but you are still stuck with the potential of hostiles or ambushes. Dave

Fullpower | 03-20-2008 02:50 PM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Ideally, in a situation where-in great numbers of ill prepared, panic driven citizens have taken to the roads, the wise person would be somewhere else.

thorgrim | 03-20-2008 03:05 PM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. The main danger zone would be in close proximity to a major city. Once you get far enough away, even if many others have the same idea traffic should thin out pretty good. This is a valid point/question you raised though. I wonder if increasing your range with extra built in tanks would not be a better idea? If you could drive 800-1000 miles without refueling you should be able to get to your bug out place even if you had to take the long way wouldn't you? My truck gets about 400 miles on a full tank.

Dave | 03-20-2008 03:06 PM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 1021478) Ideally, in a situation where-in great numbers of ill prepared, panic driven citizens have taken to the roads, the wise person would be somewhere else.
Bingo! I prefer not end up in the middle of the chaos. Mind you, I would only attempt the journey if staying where I was at would be worst of an option. The only problem is if there was a large terrorist attack or some sort of sudden societal break down you couldn't really predict that in the first place. In a normal circumstance I would try and predict SHTF long enough in advance to make the move before chaos breaks out. Dave

Dave | 03-20-2008 03:19 PM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Quote:
Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 1021502) The main danger zone would be in close proximity to a major city. Once you get far enough away, even if many others have the same idea traffic should thin out pretty good. This is a valid point/question you raised though. I wonder if increasing your range with extra built in tanks would not be a better idea? If you could drive 800-1000 miles without refueling you should be able to get to your bug out place even if you had to take the long way wouldn't you? My truck gets about 400 miles on a full tank.
I would definitely feel more at ease when I am away from large population centers but the million dollar question would be how long would it take to get from point A to B? For an example, I had a brother leave Florida during hurricane evacuations with his family. Even though he took back roads it still took him nearly 36 hours to make it 400 miles. He was amazed at the number of people that took "back roads" to evacuate. You can thank the amount of vehicles with GPS devices for the increased knowledge of back roads that even J6P has access too. I like your idea about expanding the on board fuel capacity of your vehicle. I personally would probably feel comfortable if I had double the required fuel to make the trip. I guess my concern is, no one really knows what you will be up against in a SHTF situation. Dave

Prometheus | 03-20-2008 10:50 PM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 1021526) . You can thank the amount of vehicles with GPS devices for the increased knowledge of back roads that even J6P has access too.
Yep. Last year in my AO there was major flooding that actually closed a section of interstate 80 for about 48 hours... I was SMART! I stayed off the detour roads and main roads and stayed completely back roads and side streets... So was every other local resident. diverted interstate traffic snarled main surface streets and locals then swamped side streets. What normally took me a 15 min by interstate or 20-25 by surface streets took me right at two hours. Unreal. Honestly if you are caught bugging out while J6P is also evacuating you might as well stay home. There is no way you could expect to travel more than a couple miles an hour... at best. My best bet is a trailer to pull or one of those hitch platforms to put my 5 gal fuel cans on and cover them with a tarp. Open carry of a handgun in legal in basically all the states I plan to travel thru on either of my 2 plans... I have this as a possible open carry weapon if need be- http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/kel_plr_wacc.jpg Mine has a reflex sight instead of the scope and a bird cage flash hider instead of that lame muzzle brake.

DogFarm | 03-21-2008 12:26 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. watch out for static electricity when dealing with fuel cans. just a tip.

Unclad Lad | 03-21-2008 12:54 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. You have to ask yourself if the loss of off-road capability and the sharp decrease in gas mileage will eat up any gains you might have with extra fuel towed in a trailer. Here's another possibility: build a storage tank into a roof-mounted carrier. Most of them are quite aerodynamic, they won't impair off-road driving, and you don't need a pump to add fuel--gravity will do the job for you. The downside is having all that fuel right over your head, but nothing is perfect.

wallew | 03-21-2008 12:59 AM
Refueling quickly while getting out of dodge. OK, I've tried to explain this one before. If you are driving a GASOLINE powered vehicle as about 80%+ of the people who bug out will be driving, ALL the fuel and other supplies along ANY route will be consumed within the first eight hours. A buddy of mine bugged out from Houston when it was thought Katrina might swerve south. He was 'in line' with every other moron out there on I-35 traveling around 5 mph, TOPS. You should have heard the screams of frustration from all the people who had been waiting for hours for gas, when he cut across a field and pulled right up to the diesel pumps, which NO ONE was using. People WERE pissed, but none of their vehicles could use diesel. After he had pumped his tank full, he paid in cash (correct change BTW) from money he had stashed for just this purpose. And he said the shelves were stripped of EVERYTHING. The longer they were on the road, the more cars they saw pushed off to the side. And every time he came upon a police officer directing traffic, they routed him around all the hold ups, telling him WHICH roads to take and WHICH roads to avoid. All because he was driving a military vehicle and wearing one of his old uniforms. So, aside from getting to run in parades, these vehicles DO have some value that I (and others I know) intend to exploit in SHTF scenarios. People who had run out of fuel came up to him asking for gas. He would shake his head and tell them 'DIESEL'. He has an M109 deuce and a half. Plus he pulled a large military trailer. His fuel tank is 55 gallons of diesel. I'm going to put twin 55 gallon saddle tanks, one on each side, of the deuce I'm building up. Plus double front bumpers. I'm seriously considering putting an M1010 ambulance box on the rear and keeping it painted red, instead of the normal three color camo green. I'm even considering putting the name of the town where we will be bugging out to ON this vehicle. That will give me the reason for 'going down' to this small mountain town. I've even considered doing ambulance runs if necessary. And this would be a LARGE ambulance. And completely correct from a military parts perspective. Even though no one that I'm aware of has EVER done this before. My last deuce got at LEAST 11 mpg running 70 mph down the highway. At lower speeds, that went up to as high as 14 mpg. If you are only going 35 mph, fuel consumption does drop. We will probably only run at night. It's just easier. Plus you should reconsider the 55 gallon drums. FULL they will weigh around 450 lbs each. So that means on a 5x6 trailer, you just maxed out or are pulling an overweight trailer. Yes, that weight will start to drop as soon as you start moving fuel around. But BE CAREFUL, as pumped fuel can become victim to static electricity if you are not careful. All the more reason I like diesel. Also, here a link to Alpharubicon, a great site for survival stuff. This particular link is for a 12v fuel transfer pump. Pretty ingenious, as it's mounted on a piece of plywood and can be 'transfered' from vehicle to vehicle. Which could come in handy... http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenerg...ump12vpike.htm

thorgrim | 03-21-2008 01:47 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Wallew, you definitely make some good points about the advantages of a diesel vehicle in an emergency. I have been meaning to get one myself over the last couple of years but it is hard to juggle all the different areas of prepping when you have limited time and resources. Hopefully this winter I will be in a position to pick something up.

Martian_Time_slip | 03-21-2008 04:00 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. That's why no survivalist is complete without a $400k solar-powered tesla car. :bath:

aybesee123 | 03-21-2008 05:20 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Here is your must have... http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/for/613100588.html

Dutch Dog | 03-21-2008 06:21 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. That pump is designed to be used with diesel or gas (or both)? I'm worried about static elec...and gas.. I onced used a fluid pump that was designed to be powered by a makita drill. I was offshore on a boat and needed to transfer diesel from one tank to the other. Worked out pretty well. I wish I had a diesel truck...

EE_ | 03-21-2008 11:19 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Above deck boat gas tanks are an option for storing fuel that can be slid off a cart into the back of a truck. Here's an example http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...%20Fuel%20Tank

<SLV> | 03-21-2008 12:47 PM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. How about the obvious answer of installing a larger/more fuel tanks (or overflow tanks)? Have one welded to fit perfectly in your trunk (don't forget to upgrade the suspension and ground the tank). If you have a van or SUV, have one made to fit in the back.

wallew | 03-21-2008 08:22 PM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. I'm not sure what kind of vehicles you folks are driving right now. But my 1984 M1009 Blazer was purchased for $5k. It had 59k miles on it. Currently it has about 61.5K miles in about 18 months I've owned it. I recently purchased a 1985 M1031 Contract Maintenance truck. It's a 1 1/4 t pickup with an aluminum box on the back with a 10KW generator in it that's PTO driven and a compressor as well. Again with the 6.2L diesel. I paid $2900 for it. Oh, and it's got just under 14k miles. I have yet to get it to start, but I need to drain the fuel tank (about half full of something that no longer smells like diesel), put an inline fuel pump in place, replace the fuel filter and then try it again. But as I ONLY have a carport, I've been waiting for spring to arrive. Spring is slowly showing it's head around here. So sometime in the next few weeks, I should have all this done. Then I need to replace the front sheetmetal because it looks like someone got mad at the truck and kicked in both fenders and doors. But that's $500 total, completely painted from another truck. So, I might end up with $5k in the truck as well. I also have a deuce down in Pueblo that I want to build up as a 4x4, which would be a great truck. Anyway, my point is you don't NEED to spend $30K - $40k for a nice used diesel truck. Especially a used military truck. Go over to steelsoldiers.com and look under their classified ads and you WILL find a lot of trucks for UNDER $10k. There are also MV dealers all over the country and for $10k or WAY LESS you can find viable deuces, CUCV's, etc. Hope that helps.

Dave | 03-21-2008 10:32 PM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. wallew, Considering that most people probably do not have a military truck or are not in the position to own one (neighborhood restrictions, no place to park, money, etc.) is why I was trying to determine a way to not have to stop to refuel for those non-diesel vehicles, especially after what you described of the Katrina evacuation. Though let me be honest, I have wanted to own a deuce for QUITE some time now! :D If you simply throw a fuel tank on the back of your truck or gas cans on the bumper of your car people will see them and potentially hunt you down for it. The same logic applies even if you cleverly hide it and pull over to refuel because now you are a sitting duck while you pump gas. Even if you have a diesel vehicle, you are betting on the fact that conditions will be hospitable if you have to stop and refuel. Remember, back roads are no longer secret with the GPS's going for $100-$150 a pop. I actually have family all through New Orleans, Baton Rougue, Biloxi, Gulf Port, and Mobile that had similar experiences after the storm. Though none of my family left so they didn't have to deal with the evacuation issues much, however, they did have to deal with looters and thugs. An alternative to carrying extra fuel would be to plant it in locations where you have trustworthy family or friends. This way you can plan to drive only 200-300 mile distances and have a place to stay that is safe and where you have stationed fuel. Of course this complicates the logistics of having to circulate gas at all of these locations. The benefit of diesel is of course it can keep for quite a bit longer than gas making that little easier to store without having to worry much about it. Either way, I don't think anyone of us can predict with confidence how bad it will be come SHTF. One thing to keep in mind, is even during the Katrina evacuations, just 50 miles north people had power and supplies to keep Katrina evacuees supplied and fueled up. In a SHTF situation this will not be the case and you are looking at almost and instant breakdown leading to hostile conditions probably everywhere you turn. Much to ponder. Dave

Unclad Lad | 03-22-2008 01:39 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Or you can put a big tank on the back of your truck and disguise it to look like one of these: //http://www.septictrucksforsale.com/ Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is going to stop you. :bear_w00t:

Dave | 03-22-2008 06:05 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 1023905) Or you can put a big tank on the back of your truck and disguise it to look like one of these: //http://www.septictrucksforsale.com/ Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is going to stop you. :bear_w00t:
Write "Honey Wagon" on the side :D LOL... Good idea ;) Dave

EE_ | 03-22-2008 10:07 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Some scenarios to consider why storing fuel is a good idea... Massive power outages from an aging power infrastrusture. Earthquake, living in earthquake prone areas it's possible to lose power for long periods. Either of these scenarios would result in a stampede to get fuel or not being able to get it because pumps are shut down. If you think you will want to flee, you will be SOL! Got Gas?

Unclad Lad | 03-23-2008 01:54 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Write "Honey Wagon" on the side There's enough ignorant folks out there that might not know what that means, and try to hijack all that honey. At least until they got downwind of it, anyway. You might want to keep a tightly lidded bucket of watered down manure around, to, you know, spread a little bit around when everybody else's SHTF. Olfactory camouflage, y'see. :D Wear a uniformish jumpsuit when you G.O.O.D. and I'll bet they won't search you too closely at the checkpoints--especially on a hot summer day. :bull-smile:

Dave | 03-24-2008 10:39 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 1025034) Write "Honey Wagon" on the side There's enough ignorant folks out there that might not know what that means, and try to hijack all that honey. At least until they got downwind of it, anyway. You might want to keep a tightly lidded bucket of watered down manure around, to, you know, spread a little bit around when everybody else's SHTF. Olfactory camouflage, y'see. :D Wear a uniformish jumpsuit when you G.O.O.D. and I'll bet they won't search you too closely at the checkpoints--especially on a hot summer day. :bull-smile:
Even better, Toxic Waste signs and a few radiation symbols scattered around? :D Dave

Unclad Lad | 03-26-2008 10:32 AM
Re: Refueling quickly while gettnig out of dodge. No, you don't want to frighten them, especially anyone manning a checkpoint. Nauseating them is good enough.

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