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Ash_Williams | 12-22-2008 03:18 PM
Heating during power outages. I have a wood stove as backup so I don't worry about this myself, but I wonder what people do in colder areas for heating when the power goes out? I know my gas furnace won't run without electricity. Are oil furnaces the same? Clearly electric furnaces won't be working. Wasn't there just a few days without power in NY or somewhere recently? What happens in apartment buildings?

Maxine | 12-22-2008 03:31 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. I have an oil furnace and it does not run without power. Like you I have a wood stove back up.

pusher | 12-22-2008 03:33 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. I'm no expert on the subject, but most furnaces I've ever been familiar with, either gas or oil or even steam require electric motors to pump water or circulate air in order to operate, my forced air furnace uses natural gas, and during a power outage while there is ample gas, the furnace requires electric for the thermostat and for the blower motor to circulate the heated air. The same can be said for most if not all pellet stoves, they need electricity to feed the pellets to the stove. I also have wood burning stove for that reason, and backup kerosene also.

Bx3 | 12-22-2008 03:34 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. http://www.cylinderstoves.com/ We don't have a permanent wood stove due to a local ordinance but I did pick up a cylinder stove and made a window insert. It works great!

Ash_Williams | 12-22-2008 04:18 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. I'm curious because I know there was that ice and snow storm earlier in the month, with thousands of homes without power. I didn't hear how they dealt with heating, or if they did. I mean they could wear coats all the time, but at some point wouldn't there be danger of water pipes freezing and cracking open?

unalga | 12-22-2008 04:19 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1477937) http://www.cylinderstoves.com/ We don't have a permanent wood stove due to a local ordinance but I did pick up a cylinder stove and made a window insert. It works great!
Get a propane run "wood stove". All kinds of neat wood stove style designs. 5 gal bottle of propane lasts awhile and you don't need elec. All we heat our 2800 square feet with. Of course we have a bigger tank, but I also have a valve on it so if I have to because of weather use my BBQ tank or drive someplace to fill a bottle.

unalga | 12-22-2008 04:23 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Also, they do make a wick style oil furnace that does not need elec. to run, but it only works well when it is a smaller house where it can be in the center and you can get by on radiant heat. TOYO makes great portable heaters, used as only source in many homes in bush Alaska.

CrufflerJJ | 12-22-2008 04:28 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. I don't know what other people do, but we have a 23KBTU kerosene heater. That should be enough to heat our (small) home, but I've never had to put it to the test. Sounds like something I might need to put on the "to do list".

Bx3 | 12-22-2008 05:11 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Quote:
Originally Posted by unalga (Post 1477984) Get a propane run "wood stove". All kinds of neat wood stove style designs. 5 gal bottle of propane lasts awhile and you don't need elec. All we heat our 2800 square feet with. Of course we have a bigger tank, but I also have a valve on it so if I have to because of weather use my BBQ tank or drive someplace to fill a bottle.
We also have a buddy heater (propane) for short durations. The key element to propane just as with gas powered gens is fuel supplies. Having spent over three weeks without electricity (sub zero temps) in the N.E. I saw first hand how hard/costly it can be to re supply. Wood is everywhere around me however and my already pre seasoned wood doesn't need to be rotated all that often. In a true protracted shtf situation, wood may be the only fuel available for some time.

oldmansmith | 12-22-2008 05:46 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash_Williams (Post 1477982) I'm curious because I know there was that ice and snow storm earlier in the month, with thousands of homes without power. I didn't hear how they dealt with heating, or if they did. I mean they could wear coats all the time, but at some point wouldn't there be danger of water pipes freezing and cracking open?
During our recent ice storm, our local fire chief "dealt" with it by staying at the fire house with generator. Many people had to go to an emergency shelter or hotel, which would not have worked in a real emergency. Wood is the only real answer long-term.

Bill843 | 12-22-2008 05:52 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. A relative has a gas furnace that will work without electricity. Not real well, but you won't freeze. His house is pretty small though, 600 sq ft or so. I've just got a propane indoor-rated heater and a few 20-lb tanks around. Heating the whole house to a comfortable temp isn't necessary, just a couple of the main rooms. The rest can be cold as long as the pipes don't freeze. -end-

dupontcobb | 12-22-2008 05:58 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Just picked up a Corona D22 kerosene heater as a backup heat source. I started looking for places to get some kerosene. The fuel dealers require 130 gallon ($2.39 a gallon) buy if they are to deliever. I dont have a tank so start making telephone calls. The local hardware stores are asking $10/$11 a gallon and that is not going to happen. I found a local gas station ($2.79 a gallon) but the pump didnt work. I hate wasted trips :s10: Found another local gas station so I might stop in tomorrow and get a can full. So, within a 10 mile radius, there are only 2 gas stations and if they quit selling kerosense then I will be forced to buy a tank. I think a gasoline heater would be better since there are more gas stations that sell gasoline than kerosene. If any GIM member has keosene heater, I would like to know what you are doing to get fuel or how you are storing it. I like the ideal of the cylinder wood stoves and having wood. In the summer, I would like to build a rocket stove, but it would be for cooking food primarily or heating water. It only uses twigs which are readily available.

tulsamal | 12-22-2008 06:10 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. I'm usually unhappy that I don't have central heat and air. We have propane and a floor furnace. About the same as the one my grandparents had in their house. Thermostat on the wall. I _assumed_ when we moved in that it needed electricity for the thermostat. But our electricity has been off for as long as a week and that floor furnace kept going the whole time. So not having electricity is a pain in the butt in many ways at our house but not because of heat. The heat is the same either way! (Actually our wood stove doesn't work as well because it loses the electric fan....) Gregg

unalga | 12-22-2008 06:18 PM
Fining Kerosene Quote:
Originally Posted by dupontcobb (Post 1478110) Just picked up a Corona D22 kerosene hs that sell gasoline than kerosene. If any GIM member has keosene heater, I would like to know what you are doing to get fuel or how you are storing it. I like the ideal of the cylinder wood stoves and having wood. In the summer, I would like to build a rocket stove, but it would be for cooking food primarily or heating water. It only uses twigs which are readily available.
You can use #1 diesel also. Usually a lot cheaper, just make sure it is #1 and not #2. Esp for your living space. #2 will do ok for the barn etc where you are not living.:sleep:

ruprick | 12-22-2008 08:15 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. I would not use diesel....has a lot more oder than kerosene. Get at least 3 or 4 x 5 gal cans of kero....it keeps nearly forever. The kero heaters also do a nice job of heating up meals and making hot water by placing pots/pans on top of the heater. Just crack a window a little to let in make up air. We will let our run unattended all night in the living room.....they are very safe. Read instructions on adjusting the flame....for proper combustion. Kero heaters are really the way to go for a backup heating source.

scyth | 12-22-2008 08:20 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. All - I've a huge - like 3'x10' brick chimney - which has a pair of inserts (one downstairs in the daylight basement, one upstairs on the main floor, which will accept 20" cordwood, plus a cleverly build in set of naturally aspirating vents. I takes 1 1/2 days to get that mass of masonry warm, but once you are there it is miserly on wood, and keeps the whole house warm. I goalset putting up 6 cords of wood for each winter; last year used a hair over four. The house was handbuilt in 1965 by one smart son of a gun. I was lucky enough to find it at the right time at a price which didn't bleed me dry. But that isn't my main point; start off by layering yourself. Wool socks with silk or synthetic (thin) undersocks), wool or silk or synthetic longjohns, with wool or synthetic (propylene is pretty good stuff), then a wool upper half of a union suit, then wool shirt, then a sweater, either synthetic fleece or wool,then I wear a vest because I always wear a vest, then a 3/4 length anorak or overshell. A good pair of 9" insulated boots, head sock or baclava plus your style of cap, and - for me - my half finger winter steelhead fishing gloves with the flip over mitten flaps built into them. Oh yeah, and a pair of waterproof mountaineering knee high gaiters to keep you lower legs from getting soaked. Thats my kit. The nice thing about this is when the power really goes down, you can be comfortable indefinitely, and change out your layering to your level of physical activity, inside or outside. And aside from the initial purchase, no power company has ever tried to charge me a dime for my clothes. One last thing, out here in the Northwest, whether you are doing snow sports up in the mountains, or steelheading all day in a 45 degree river, or ranching in Eastern Washington, the same phrase comes up again and again, "Cotton is the Cloth of Death." scyth

Clawdia | 12-22-2008 08:27 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. I've been worrying myself sick this winter since we moved from a home where we had a wood stove into one that is heated by a heat pump. We have no fireplace, altho there is a chimney flue in the basement where we could hook up the wood stove - for a 'mere' $2K that would go to lining the chimney, primarily. In view of the cost, and the fact that we're not spring chickens and trips up and down to the basement aren't all that easy anymore (DH has had bilateral knee replacement surgery X 5 years ago), I've been trying to figure out an alternative for emergency heat. We're in SW Virginia, so it's only about 3 months a year that it would be problematic not to have electricity - but when it was a problem, it would be a major problem. Anyone know how the Buddy type propane heaters work insofar as reliability/safety issues go? Wondering how long a 20lb propane cylinder would run one for . . . in emergency, if we could just heat a couple of rooms - and keep the pipes from freezing - we could get by. Someone told us that there is a way to install a woodstove through a combustible wall without need for a fireplace or a "real" chimney . . . we plan on researching that after the first of the year. Right now, I'm just trying to collect information on alternatives. I keep thinking we really should bite the bullet and pay the $2K to put in the woodstove in the basement - we already have the stove, it's a good Jotul model - but I'd like to know first if there's a cheaper solution. I'm one of the ones that worry about a SHTF scenario and the grid going down, whether from war, flu pandemic, or other unforeseen catastrophe . . . like the so-far only rumour I'm hearing from Al-Jezera about Pak forces on high alert over possible strike by India . . . We're stocked with food, meds, many other needful things - but it's getting down below 20F here tonight, which has brought all this to the forefront of my mind again. Suggestions appreciated - and, much as I'd like to be able to take us off the grid, a major solar system is beyond our means.

oldmansmith | 12-22-2008 08:33 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawdia (Post 1478357) Suggestions appreciated - and, much as I'd like to be able to take us off the grid, a major solar system is beyond our means.
Have you looked into a metal bestos chimney for the stove on the main floor?Wood is good, and better if accessable. 20's sounds good right about now...10 degrees here and sinking fast, although it is 76 here in the family room with the masonry fireplace:shine:

Agamemnon | 12-22-2008 08:37 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. If you have a propane tank/nat gas line try an infared radiant wall mounted heater. I think you can get them up to 35,000 btu. .

ruprick | 12-22-2008 08:37 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Just get a kerosene heater. They only cost about $100 - $150. Get a 20,000 BTU unit....it will hear your home easily. It will require about 4 gallons of fuel per day. Stock up on about 5 or 10 cans of kerosene......this will last you 1 to 2 weeks between refilling your cans. Cans cost $15 each. Kero is currently under $3/gal. The cans are 5 gal in size. $100 - $150 furnace. 5 - 10 cans = $75 - $150. 50 - 100 gal fuel = $150 - $300 Total costs = $325 - $600.

CrufflerJJ | 12-22-2008 11:06 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Any idea if kerosene heaters will set off ionization or particle (smoke) based smoke detectors inside the house? I'm ASSuming that I'd fire it up outside, then (carefully) bring it inside once it's heated up & running. I'd rather not have the fire alarm go off (& ensuing visits from my local fire dept) if I can avoid it. Thanks!

bigcdc | 12-22-2008 11:07 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. I've also moved to a colder climate (Idaho) from a warmer climate (Arizona) and it has been rather cold this week and its been a little bit of an eye opener. (I just bought my first snow shovel today actually :smile: ). And I've been trying to come up with ways to keep our house warm or even a room warm if the power to go out. So with the kerosene heaters is there any special hookups to vent them properly or are they like a propane heater where they only need a little fresh air to keep everyone alive because there is no carbon monoxide? Any links would be helpful as well Thanks

HVACTEC | 12-22-2008 11:25 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash_Williams (Post 1477982) I'm curious because I know there was that ice and snow storm earlier in the month, with thousands of homes without power. I didn't hear how they dealt with heating, or if they did. I mean they could wear coats all the time, but at some point wouldn't there be danger of water pipes freezing and cracking open?
you can have your water runing at a trickle, cold and hot to keep the pipes from freezing, as long as it is running it won't freeze just have all the sinks etc trickle water. also if you have a hot water heater and it don't have a inducer to remove the combustion product. natural gas or propane hot water heater if you have the old type vent, on it they still make them, then that does not require electric to run, just has t-stat on it that heats the water you can fill up your bath tub with hot water that will give some heat. if you have a boiler for heat and you know your power is going to be off for a long time you can open the zone valves by hand and, hook a hose up to the valves to blow them out, but run it to a drain and hav it trickle will keep them from freezing also. also if you have a gas stove for cooking you can lite all the top burners and they will give some heat

CajunCoin | 12-22-2008 11:30 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. 1. Wood Stove freestanding is the best bet but takes a space to place it in and is not in the way. 2. A small generator is all you usually need for a gas furnace to run the fan and thermostat, mone is a 120V so a 1000 watt Generator is what works for me. Best to practice with the generator before you need it. 3. Kerosene heater is a good backup but it needs good venelation and Kerosene in some areas is getting difficult to find. My parents had a Fuel Oil (kerosene) heater at their country home, Pop had rigged up four 55 gallon drums on a rack but to fill the darn thing because the drums were mounted horizontal with the 2 inch bung at the top and the 3/4 inch inch bleed hole was hooked in series with a sightglass. Pop had us (kids) pour oil in pumped from another 55 gallon drum when up on my first trip home from the oilfields, I came up with a solution to this problem, I ran a line up the hill to the road and got dad a 125 gallon stainless steel tote tank put it on a trailer and ran a 1" line with camelock and hoses using gravity feet to fill the tank. His Heater could be run on a small generator since everything was 120volt.

elroy | 12-22-2008 11:37 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. I have a vent free propane heater. I have two 20lb grill tanks and a 100lb bottle. This wouldn't last forever but would heat the house for a few days. My heater is similar to this one http://www.masterdist.net/glowarm/in...ers/index.html They also make some that mount on top of a 20lb grill tank. Tank top Radiant Heater. They cost from $60-120 and come in 15,000 to 42,000 BTU. Look at Lowes or Home Depot.

TTAZZMAN | 12-23-2008 01:19 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Been through a couple of ice storms last year.. Kerosene was almost impossible to get so if your going with kerosene you should keep enough stock to cover your needs Propane was also difficult to get but less so than kerosene Gasoline was also difficult due to power outages stopping pumps at gas stations but most gas stations are also convience stores so they went onto generators to keep the coolers working so you could get fuel...most did not have internet service to be able to buy with a credit card so my #1 suggestion is to keep Cash on hand #2 suggestion is if your going to do any combustable fuels inside the home to buy and maintain a carbon monoxide detector to save your life we used a generator to keep our natual gas furnace running i also have a pellet stove insert i can run off of a generator i also have a natural gas log in one of the fireplaces that does not require any power to work I have a 2500watt inverter on one of my vehicles that can supply power we have avalible probably 100gal of fuel at any time between fuel jugs and vehicles also have small buddy propane heater so in my opinion its best to have several ways to cope with the situation

Clawdia | 12-23-2008 06:19 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Thanks for the suggestions. Agree that redundancy on top of redundancy is best . . . with most things that are really important. Not freezing if the grid is down is pretty high on my list of 'really important'. I not only worry about short term outages, but am cognizant that there's always the chance that some major unforseen event could take the grid down for a long time . . . This is the first time in years we've failed to have a back up system, and that was before I thought there was such a high possibility of things going wrong in a major way. Used to have gas logs and the largest propane tank that the local company would agree to install, then had the woodstove . . . The downside of the woodstove in these parts is that some winters it hasn't gotten cold enough to use one but a few days a year - unless temps go below 40 and stay there, a wood burning stove can run you out of the house, or force you to start opening every window you can reach. Last year we burned wood less than a week, total. Too old to want to do it for every day heat when just running the furnace for a couple hours a day will suffice . . . Too old not to want to be able to be warm if the grid's down, too, though. We could do simple things like heat water - I've practiced redundancy in that direction with a one burner propane stove, a two burner propane stove, a gas grill that uses 20 lb propane tanks, and even a gadget that uses little gel filled cannisters. Most days I feel like I'm too old to need to be worrying about all this stuff anyway - but if I don't worry about it, nobody will. DH hasn't ever spent a week freezing due to an ice storm taking out all the power, but daughter and I remember a winter when she was about 10 that if it hadn't been for a Kerosun heater we'd have turned into corpse-sicles.

Tn...Andy | 12-23-2008 06:54 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. I've had kerosene, and ventless propane....I'll take the propane far and away over kero.....the stuff is messy and stinks on lite up and fuel out.....and I have 3 brand new kero heaters and 2-55gal drums of kero stored away ( mostly for former rental houses in case the power went out ). Propane has about 92,000 BTU per gallon....so when you figure "how long will such and such kind of heater last", take the BTU rating on a given setting ( like high ), and say it is 15,000 BTU.....most heaters like "Mr Heater" or ventless propane are very close to 100% efficient, so you can basically take the 15,000 output, divide that into 92,000 and figure a gallon of propane will run a 15k BTU heater for 6 hours ( at that 15k setting ). A 20 pound 'gas grill' size bottle holds a shade over 4.5 gallons A 100lb bottle holds about 23.5 gallons. So do the math with your tank and your heater to see about how long you tank will run your heater.

Agamemnon | 12-23-2008 08:16 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. My standby fuel is LP, 250 gallon tank (200gal fill). I usually run electric heat/wood stove but HWT and cook Range is LP. I was lucky enough to get an old LP tank with the liquid port and fill my BBQ bottles with an home made adapter. Another adapter fills my Propane lanters from the 20 lp BBQ bottles. I have foud out I can only use those little 14 oz Propane bottles a few times before the schreader vales go bad in them ... that sucks. .

ruprick | 12-23-2008 08:44 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. LP or Kero are both fine sources... Kero....just start-up ans shut-down outside the home ....otherwise...they are great for heating. You can move them once fired...just do not be an idiot....you drop it = you could have a big fire....it is like working with 440 volts....don't f-up! TN-Andy....as he suggests, a small LP heater is nice and clean....but with a little effort so is kero. No special venting required for either....just crack a window to let in fresh combustion air. I would suggest you get a few good kerosene heaters today and also some spare parts....I see them going the way of 2 stroke outboards....get them while they last.....simple and effective.

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dupontcobb | 12-23-2008 08:45 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Quote:
Originally Posted by CrufflerJJ (Post 1478552) Any idea if kerosene heaters will set off ionization or particle (smoke) based smoke detectors inside the house? I'm ASSuming that I'd fire it up outside, then (carefully) bring it inside once it's heated up & running. I'd rather not have the fire alarm go off (& ensuing visits from my local fire dept) if I can avoid it. Thanks!
I fired it up on the main level that has a smoke detector and it didnt go off. I didnt have it directly under the smoke detector. In the manual, it states that once you light the kero you should not carry it while it is burning. I got a carbon monoxide detector and place in the same room where the kero is burning for safety measures. I also open a window 1 inch and it functions as a blower.

dupontcobb | 12-23-2008 09:00 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcdc (Post 1478553) I've also moved to a colder climate (Idaho) from a warmer climate (Arizona) and it has been rather cold this week and its been a little bit of an eye opener. (I just bought my first snow shovel today actually :smile: ). And I've been trying to come up with ways to keep our house warm or even a room warm if the power to go out. So with the kerosene heaters is there any special hookups to vent them properly or are they like a propane heater where they only need a little fresh air to keep everyone alive because there is no carbon monoxide? Any links would be helpful as well Thanks
http://www.endtimesreport.com/Kerosene%20heaters.htm. This site has some good information. My kero is the first backup system I have so far which is better than nothing. It has done a good job heating so far. The top can be used to heat water and provides a small amount of light. I might get a propane heater as a backup to the kero.

CrufflerJJ | 12-23-2008 10:25 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. Quote:
Originally Posted by dupontcobb (Post 1479821) I fired it up on the main level that has a smoke detector and it didnt go off. I didnt have it directly under the smoke detector. In the manual, it states that once you light the kero you should not carry it while it is burning. I got a carbon monoxide detector and place in the same room where the kero is burning for safety measures. I also open a window 1 inch and it functions as a blower.
Thanks for the info. I Googling, many sites seem to recommend the use of smoke/CO detectors when kerosene heaters are cooking away. This suggested to me that in normal use, the detectors will not be set off by the kerosene heaters. Good to hear real world feedback.

electric-amish | 12-23-2008 11:41 PM
Re: Heating during power outages. I lived in So Cal for a while and it would get into the high thirties or Low forties in the winter. I had a small house without a furnace. It used a Wood burning stove that was terrible but effective. I lit one of thesehttp://www.churchcandlesonline.com/i...bottleneck.jpgand left it burning while I went to work. When I got home I opened the door and felt the heat from it from a room away. Candles will put out some heat---I think more than we give them credit for. 10 in a room thats closed (Not Air Tight) would heat it up considerably. I haven't tried it but, if one made a noticable difference 10 would be even more so. They are cheap and burn for a couple of days. E-A

electric-amish | 12-24-2008 12:15 AM
Re: Heating during power outages. I made myself curious and searched a bit on the net. I found a candle heater that would probebly keep a room warm and two or three even more so. By admin on November 6th, 2008 <!--google_ad_section_start-->http://www.greenoptimistic.com/wp-co...1/kh-group.jpgDoyle Doss, a Northern California Inventor, has created a candle powered space heater. It sounds like science fiction, but it really is a simple and green energy device, that could save you a lot of money by only lighting a candle, in the long run. The CO2 output of a candle is too small to mention, and the materials that this device is made of are all here since the Earth exists. This heater is a multi-core steel and ceramic radiator assembly, suspended above the candle on a solid steel stand. The radiator absorbs and concentrates the thermal energy of the candle and converts it into dry radiant space heat. If you burn candles, now you can add their heat to your home or office. There is also an �electric candle� option that uses a 60 watt quartz halogen lamp; that works out to about 6 cents for 10 hours of �burn� time. �Steel has the ability to approach the temperature of its heat source,� says the inventor, �so the solid steel inner core will go as high 550� Fahrenheit. That high inner temperature is mitigated to a very warm 160� to 180� on the outer surface. As long as the candle remains under the steel the surface is constantly emitting dry radiant heat.� The simple elegant design has no moving parts. The unglazed terra cotta is nicely complemented by the natural finish on the solid steel stand. The overall appearance is at once very striking, unusual and definitely organic. What�s new for 2008 is an �electric candle� option that takes advantage of the fact that 90% of the energy that goes into an incandescent lamp is �wasted� as heat. �We take the waste heat of an incandescent lamp and pump it into the radiator assembly. If the electric energy is coming from a renewable source then the use is green and sustainable,� says Mr. Doss. This is very efficient and inexpensive way to add a bit of heat to an otherwise cold room. I think this is pretty cool and a heck of a lot cheaper than other methods. It would probebly be much more apartment freindly. E-A

Clawdia | 12-24-2008 01:05 AM
Re: Heating during power outages. Anybody that thinks candles don't make heat hasn't ever lived in hurricane country. Not much more miserable than the day of and the day after, when there's no power, no A/C, and you try to conserve flashlight batteries by lighting candles. It only takes about 1/2 hour to realize you've gone and done something real stoopid . . . 'cause by then the temp inside is up another 5-10 intolerable degrees! Voice of experience . . .

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