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electric-amish | 04-29-2006 12:29 AM
weekend gun talk A couple of weeks ago I posed the question 357mag or 1911? I received so much info I thought I would give a progress report.I went to a local shooting range and rented a Kimber 1911. I bought 2 boxs of amunition and shot 100 at the man sized silouet. My first impressions were haha I can handle this recoil then I setteled down to shoot.40 of the first 50 were in a 3in diameter hole the other ten: except 1 fly away were close enough for government work. The second 50 tightened up a little.When I finished my forearm on top was tired and twitching. Is this normal due to the Number of shells in about 1/2 hour or is this to much gun?Kimber seems like its mechanically sound. I liked the way the slide slamed shut so crisply after reloading. really don't know how to explain it better than maybe like a good car door shutting.Anyway I liked it. But was the forearm reaction fairly typical or am I just a weeny.

Prometheus | 04-29-2006 12:40 AM
Re: weekend gun talk Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish But was the forearm reaction fairly typical or am I just a weeny.
It almost sounds to me like the first time I actually drove a car. I drove about 25 miles (most of which was on winding roads at speed of 45-55 MPH, probably not the best place) and when I got there my arms were sore and sort of twitchy. I asked my dad if that was normal, he looked at me and grinned I can't remember what he said but it was basically "you had a death grip on it the entire time huh?" Thats what it sounds like to me. You were exerting too much effort and thats why. It soudns like you found a winner with that kimber. I hear nothign but good things about them and most of my friend who don't carry sig's carry kimbers. I'm the odd ball with my HK USP 45. Nice shooting btw :beer:

REV127 | 04-29-2006 12:59 AM
Re: weekend gun talk Shooting, like any other martial art, uses all kinds of muscles you don't normally use. I'm a fairly strong guy but I get tired after a while, too. A useful exercise is to unload your weapon, assume your chosen shooting stance and hold it for several minutes, or however long you can hold it without too much undue pain. Over time you will develop a very strong core stance which will also be more stable with means better accuracy. On top of that I'd just do regular exercise that develops stabilizer muscles; less of the machines and more work with moderate dumbbells or body weight resistance.

electric-amish | 04-29-2006 01:01 AM
Re: weekend gun talk Thanks PI was hopeing you would respond. I don't see how people get of 2 and 3 shots quickly on target as it jumps around pretty good.Of course I've only seen that in the movies so maybe they don't.

Prometheus | 04-29-2006 01:46 AM
Re: weekend gun talk Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish Thanks PI was hopeing you would respond. I don't see how people get of 2 and 3 shots quickly on target as it jumps around pretty good.Of course I've only seen that in the movies so maybe they don't.
Depends on the caliber ;) While I can get 10 rounds into the 10 ring at 7 yards with my .22lr ruger mark II as fast as I can pull the trigger :proud: I am hard pressed with a .45 to get 2 quick shots off at 7 yards and stay in the black. The bigger the recoil the harder to get back on target or aquire the next target. I really like a fullsize 9mm with some weight to it, you can really get back on target quick and still have a decent sized round. For me a .45acp is all the pistol I can handle and still be able to allow for reasonably timed follow up shots / aquire new targets. First comes good solid fundementals then comes speed. Crawl before you walk, walk before you run. The best gunfighters / trainers around say "You can't miss fast enough to win." I've been tempted at times to carry the ruger mark II. I can't seem to miss on purpose and the speed is unreal. Of course I'd have to make only head shots to be sure of stopping an enemy and thats hard to do if I'm forced to shoot from the 'hip' :cool:

money matters | 04-29-2006 01:19 PM
Re: weekend gun talk I am no gunfighter. Haven't been to Gunsite or "trained" anywhere. I have not seen or been given to understand a reason to "train" with a handgun. Unless a person is employed in law enforcement, what you want if you envision being in a gunfight is a rifle. A handgun is what you wear so if your rifle is out of reach, you might be able to get to it. The point of the .45 acp is not to have to double or tripple tap your target. If you like the 1911 pattern pistol, you show an affinity for the finest and most capable fighting handgun ever devised. Try one with a tuned trigger, look at various sights. Plain black high profile sights are fast to acquire in most situations. Make sure your pistol will not stovepipe or jam with the ammunition you want to use for defense carry. I would learn to load my own ammunition so I could practice with lead wadcutter bullets propelled by a light charge of Unique powder. A well tuned 45 auto will knock 38sp cases off a fence post at 50 feet every time you can align the sights properly and press the trigger smoothly. That is usable accuracy, whether for defense or taking small game that might present itself for an opportunity. Jeff Cooper is The Authority on 45 autos and handgun training in general. His concern was always that, in a gunfight, concentrate on your front sight and a clean trigger break. It takes discipline and confidence to hang in there and not panic, (I guess, never having shot anyone). I encourage you to read anything by Jeff Cooper, and Massad Ayoob's In The Gravest Extreme. Cooper discusses Combat Mindset, and wrote a small book called Principles of Self-Defense in which he discusses mindset and threat assesment and environmental awareness. Ayoob discusses much the same general info, but includes chapters on what to expect after you've defended yourself; and why you might want to carry some "Buy Off Money" to toss to a would be mugger or villain. It is one thing to "use" a firearm on another human being, if you are "doing your duty", but quite another to do so in pursuing your "right" to self-defense. If you go somewhere armed that you would not otherwise not frequent or travel through; you are looking for trouble. If it costs you half a million dollars to prevail in court; who is the winner? One guy on this board recently wrote that he could not keep Precious Metals at home, because his building was not "good". I took this to mean he faced a daily or regular likelihood of burglary or robbery. The prudent thing to do in that situation is to move. The prudent thing to do when carrying a weapon is to avoid going places where you feel likely to use it. Better not to be judged by 12 at all; much less risk carried by six. Good luck with your new handgun.

Book | 04-29-2006 01:23 PM
Re: weekend gun talk The usual "size matters" argument here: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...p/t-47579.html

REV127 | 04-29-2006 06:08 PM
Re: weekend gun talk .45acp is a good caliber. It's not so great for carrying a lot in your bug out bag or otherwise, since 1 round of .45acp weighs more than 1 round of 5.56x45. I'd rather be able to feed the rifle. The main mark against the .45 in the 1911 platform is the 7/8 +1 capacity. These aren't the good ol' days, at least half of all violent encounters these days involve more than 1 person. You won't hit with every shot. A doublestack, "hi capacity" handgun gets you a lot more chances to save your life. I use a 9mm because I can get 17 to 20 rounds per flush fitting magazine. I've had a hoopty unload a gang on me before, it is a big deal. Energy, weight, all that stuff is important but not the most important. The three things that matter most in a handgun are shot placement, reasonable depth of penetration and reasonable expansion, in that order. 9mm is more than fine in that department, and .380 will work, just buy good ammo. There are no magic deathray calibers in handgunning, only required performance criteria. .22mag out of a 4" barrel will ruin your day. Right now my fullsize is a CZ-75B. I've made some modifications to it, the best was dropping in a 16lbs recoil spring. 115gr and 124gr jhp's, Gold Dots and Golden Sabers mostly, have very manageable recoil. I can doubletap with both shots landing in the x-ring no sweat. I will likely upgrade to an 85 Combat or an SP-01 in the near future and experiment further with the springs.

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