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- - Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=177468)

Krugerrand | 09-15-2007 01:11 AM
Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? I'm longing for an AK47, but until I get out of this rotten state, my options are fairly limited. I came across this "Cali-legal" AK47 at Atlantic Firearms. It has a fixed 10-rd magazine, but otherwise seems to be a standard AK. I know a fixed magazine sure does emasculate an AK, but it might be better than no AK. At least I'd have 10 rounds before I'd have to sit down and stick in 10 more one by one. :banghead: http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...asp?Prodid=266 Anyway, just wondering if anyone has experiences with this particular gun, or just any thoughts on it. I'd like to hear whatever you guys have to say about it. Thanks!

Infidel | 09-15-2007 01:55 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Why would you want to suffer the aggravation of a random pig not knowing that it is a cali legal gun? The sound they make is very unique get an sks same ammo cheaper gun get accessories (20+ rd mags) in another state and hide em till you need em http://www.simonov.net/10orlessrule.htm http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/....php?p=2106960

mjk1971 | 09-15-2007 01:59 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? That's a fraudulent claim. AKs are by class prohibited. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regagunfaqs.php#1 Using a fixed mag to avoid the prohibition is a serious misinterpretation of PC 12276.1 (a "catch all" prohibition covering characteristics rather than types or models of weapons). AKs are prohibited by the original decree of whores Roberti & Roos ("Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989"); maneuvering around PC 12276.1 does not make them legal (RRAWCA uses the term "All AK series"). Get used to severe gun control...it's going nationwide soon enough.

mjk1971 | 09-15-2007 02:00 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel (Post 738190) get accessories (20+ rd mags) in another state and hide em till you need em
http://www.gunbroker.com/ I'll pay by cash or money order, thank you...

mjk1971 | 09-15-2007 02:11 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Just noticed this: "They are approved by the California Dept of Justice Firearms Division and come with approval letter." Someone at the AG didn't know what they were doing. Such letters are NON-BINDING on "law enforcement" and the Courts. Roberti-Roos is clear, and any cop, district attorney, or judge will act on Roberti-Roos, not some piece of paper from the AG's office. Dan Lungren, former AG, had declared his interpretation of California's gun control "laws" and gun owners acted on such. Later, when Bill Lockyer took over the office, after influence from the Brady Bunch, he rescinded these interpretations, and gun owners who had depended on the opinion of Lungren got screwed.

Krugerrand | 09-15-2007 02:22 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Hi mjk, I thought so, also, but recently a friend suggested I look into the matter further, and it turns out there were some key court decisions which provided for some ways around Roberti-Roos. I haven't looked into it very deeply yet, and am just trying to see what options there are right now. It seems that as long as it is not specifically named, and doesn't have a specific combination of "evil features," then it is okay... it seems, anyway. It can be a semiauto with a fixed 10-rd magazine, OR it can be a semiauto that uses detachable mags but without any "evil" features such as pistol grips, folding stocks, or flash suppressors. Here's some reading, if you're interested... need to get into it myself, still, before I even try to commit to anything, but I figure I may as well see what's out there in the mean time. http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm http://www.calguns.net/copmemo2.pdf

mjk1971 | 09-15-2007 02:29 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? My email to Atlantic: Sirs: I recognize you are honestly trying to serve your California customers, but, regardless of any letters from the California AG's office, AKs are by class prohibited under Roberti-Roos. Fixed magazine is irrelevant. Someone in the FD didn't know what the hell they were doing when they issued the letter. The letter was likely issued based on a serious misapplication of California Penal Code 12276.1, the "catch-all" statute for "assault weapons" not covered by Roberti-Roos (specifically, misapplication of PC 12276.1(2)). AKs are not prohibited, per se, by that PC, but by PC 12276 (no decimal). Further, such letters are NON-BINDING on the Courts, who will cite Roberti-Roos (PC 12276) and not PC 12276.1 in a criminal proceeding. California gun owners got stuck in this trap in the past, when Dan Lungren issued such an "interpretation" of law which was rescinded by Commissar General Bill Lockyer when he took power. Please research this matter immediately, as some unsuspecting supporter of the Second Amendment is going to get screwed by some local cop or district attorney! http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/ PC 12276. As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the following designated semiautomatic firearms: (a) All of the following specified rifles: (1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models identified as follows...

Krugerrand | 09-15-2007 02:50 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Please be sure to post their reply, if they get back to you, mjk. Thanks!

mjk1971 | 09-15-2007 02:57 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Quote:
Originally Posted by Krugerrand (Post 738207) Hi mjk, I thought so, also, but recently a friend suggested I look into the matter further, and it turns out there were some key court decisions which provided for some ways around Roberti-Roos. I haven't looked into it very deeply yet, and am just trying to see what options there are right now. It seems that as long as it is not specifically named, and doesn't have a specific combination of "evil features," then it is okay... it seems, anyway. It can be a semiauto with a fixed 10-rd magazine, OR it can be a semiauto that uses detachable mags but without any "evil" features such as pistol grips, folding stocks, or flash suppressors. Here's some reading, if you're interested... need to get into it myself, still, before I even try to commit to anything, but I figure I may as well see what's out there in the mean time. http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm http://www.calguns.net/copmemo2.pdf
It appears some Cali gun rights groups are going way overboard in their belief about the applicability & extent of either Kasler v. Lockyer or Harriott v. Kings County. Unfortunately, neither court case invalidates PC 12276. The best interpretation one could hope for if facing an "Assault Weapons" felony charge would be that one's rifle is not listed in California Code of Regulations 979.11 prior to your arrest. Technically, the AG must add "Assault Weapons" named specifically by make & model to the CCR in order for them to hold "banned" status. When such is added, a "registration period" is also created. Harriott mandated such a list, on the principle of "unconstitutional vagueness." The worst case scenario would be the court applying fully PC 12276, whether or not CCR 979.11 lists your rifle by make & model (judges with a political bias against guns won't give a damn if you get a successful appeal later). Further, the AG's office could very well simply add your "California Legal AK" to the list and you miss the notice of such action..."ignorance of (our recently made up) law is no excuse," the lawyers say. Please notice the referenced letter from the AG's office of 3/16/06 is contradictory to Mr. Wiese's position - "or" in the second paragraph, second sentence, specifically - whereas his position is "and." I implore you to stay away from this situation...please don't play with fire!! It's simply not worth it.

mjk1971 | 09-15-2007 02:58 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Quote:
Originally Posted by Krugerrand (Post 738218) Please be sure to post their reply, if they get back to you, mjk. Thanks!
Certainly! I'm sure they'll cite Kasler or Harriott as their justification, but that's inadequate.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 09-15-2007 03:49 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? For the last time: WASR-10's are on sale at local CA shows and have been for a while. If you really want an AK, get one of those, sight it in and put in the safe until TSHTF. Otherwise, get an SKS (which I believe is what I said before, right?). I wouldn't be worried about the AG and the so-called "laws" with the Atlantic one as much as I would the cost. It's way too much money for what it is.

Krugerrand | 09-15-2007 05:14 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Thanks, Hive. I'll look into the SKS. You make a good point about it being expensive... it does seem so, especially for being a handicapped AK.

tinman | 09-15-2007 10:38 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? $750 is way too much for an ak limited to 10 rounds. I don't know how easy it is to load from the rear like they say. Sks is a much better buy. The only major downside to sks is it's limited to ten rounds, which you're stuck with anyway. Loading ammo with 10 rd stripper clips is easier too, as opposed to a fixed ak mag. If I was living in CA, I would go with a M1 Garand.

buff01 | 09-15-2007 12:48 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? SEE MY POST BELOW. http://www.ammunitionstore.com/Image.../G039/G039.jpg

mjk1971 | 09-15-2007 12:58 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? This is the totality of Atlantic Firearms' less-than-professional response: Get lost dude, (font size in the original) Buy from them at your own risk, as they obviously don't give a shit about anything besides your money.

mjk1971 | 09-15-2007 01:03 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 738245) [FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3]For the last time: WASR-10's are on sale at local CA shows and have been for a while. If you really want an AK, get one of those, sight it in and put in the safe until TSHTF.
Whether they're on sale or not does not make them "legal" in the eyes of the black-robed whores.

DBcooper | 09-15-2007 01:57 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? A good bolt action with a handgun is great if your a good shot. Id take a good bolt action over a semi anyday.

Infidel | 09-15-2007 02:07 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Go here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php these people stir this pot daily

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 09-15-2007 02:19 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Quote:
Originally Posted by mjk1971 (Post 738549) Whether they're on sale or not does not make them "legal" in the eyes of the black-robed whores.
No argument there. But if they're legally available and you really want one, I say get one now while you're able. It's very possible that Baldy Brown will shut down the sales soon enough, but it won't matter if you already have it and you're set. Unless a person just wants it for "recreational shooting," that is, and not as tool for use in the event of tyranny. In that case, the individual should not own any guns at all. They are not "toys."

DBcooper | 09-15-2007 02:24 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Like you Hive.

DBcooper | 09-15-2007 02:28 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? The sight i want costs more than my gun,its the reach sometimes yah know.

DBcooper | 09-15-2007 02:33 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? My friend with his M4 can hit about 600 with a good ammo but with the higher grain he claims to hit 900 easy,i wanna see that. He stated in Afghanistan he did it many times so shouldnt be a prob just shooting a target. That said someone here said outside of 100 yards the AK becomes not too great from what i heard its around 200,il find out soon enougth.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 09-15-2007 02:37 PM
Brilliant! I don't know why I didn't think of this option (must be getting senile), but it's an excellent recommendation. I apologize for not saying anything before about the Saiga, but it's a solid, well-made and very durable rifle and is quite affordable. Can't go wrong there. Quote:
Originally Posted by buff01 (Post 738534) Stop wasting time and get a Saiga 7.62x39. You will have to order it by mail, but it is 100% legal in CA. It's an AK47 built in Russia with no pistol grip and the trigger group moved back. Oh yeah, it's $250, and I am taking delivery of mine on Monday :) http://www.ammunitionstore.com/Image.../G039/G039.jpg

DBcooper | 09-15-2007 02:39 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? That looks good,id buy it for that price.

DBcooper | 09-15-2007 02:40 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Onething bothers me with AKs you cant load it cock it then safety it,its all or nothing.

DBcooper | 09-15-2007 02:42 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Atleast with mine if i load it i cant throw up the safety.

mjk1971 | 09-15-2007 02:49 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 738634) No argument there. But if they're legally available and you really want one, I say get one now while you're able. It's very possible that Baldy Brown will shut down the sales soon enough, but it won't matter if you already have it and you're set.
Governor Moonbeam* will start humming "Ommmmm!" and decide that "guns are bad for the Karma." :D Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 738634) Unless a person just wants it for "recreational shooting," that is, and not as tool for use in the event of tyranny. In that case, the individual should not own any guns at all. They are not "toys."
Absolutely! * Interesting career...California Governor, then failed presidential candidate, then mayor of Oakland, now Attorney General...

buff01 | 09-15-2007 07:44 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? IGNORE MY PREVIOUS POST, DO NOT BUY A SAIGA IN CALIFORNIA. I JUST GOT AN EMAIL FROM MY FFL THAT THE WEAPON WAS CONFISCATED AS AN ASSAULT RIFLE DURING A CA DOJ INSPECTION. I was supposed to pick it up Monday. GOD ****ING DAMNIT!

shades2 | 09-15-2007 08:35 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Quote:
Originally Posted by DBcooper (Post 738650) My friend with his M4 can hit about 600 with a good ammo but with the higher grain he claims to hit 900 easy,i wanna see that. He stated in Afghanistan he did it many times so shouldnt be a prob just shooting a target. That said someone here said outside of 100 yards the AK becomes not too great from what i heard its around 200,il find out soon enougth.
Apparently out to 200-300 is the effective range of a AK before it starts losing accuracy, or bullet begins to tumble etc. It has been proven in combat that most action occurs in that range anyway, but you are talking about squads of troops. For the survivalist: As an individual alone or a small group, it is more vital to reach out and touch anyone bent on following you, and doing you harm, as you will not seek out combat. NATO 7.62mm or a sniper rifle instead. A great gun would be an H&K G3A3 or G3A4 with scope, probably with a fixed buttstock. http://world.guns.ru/assault/as12-e.htm (They are of course not cheap) One of those and a Sako TRG 41 in .308 or similar with a heavy barrel and you're set, don't forget optics, so binos and a spotting scope. In the right trained hands you have a fully fledged sniper team, that no group of soldiers is going to want to try and hunt down alone without air support etc. Make sure all barrels and chambers are chrome lined for longevity. Also ideal for hunting food if required.

Krugerrand | 09-16-2007 12:40 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Quote:
Originally Posted by mjk1971 (Post 738545) This is the totality of Atlantic Firearms' less-than-professional response: Get lost dude, (font size in the original) Buy from them at your own risk, as they obviously don't give a shit about anything besides your money.
Thanks for posting their response... pretty disappointing on their part. Thanks to everyone else also for the input so far. Buff... that SUCKS, man. When you posted the pic of that Saiga, I got real excited. Looks terrific... 10-rd removable mag (since we can only have 10 at a time in Cali... more than that is evil), and still a fully-functioning AK, just with a regular old stock w/ no pistol grip. Then I see your post that it was confiscated by our government masters and I got disappointed and pissed. :rant: Sorry to hear about that, and I hope you get it, or at the very least your money, back. Please let us know what happens.

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Hivemindgammahydra7 | 09-16-2007 01:42 AM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? I don't see how they can keep it. The only banned feature it has is the ability to accept detachable mags, and nothing else. Me thinks they stepped in it here and that you're gonna' get it back. Like Krug said, please keep us posted... Quote:
Originally Posted by buff01 (Post 738976) IGNORE MY PREVIOUS POST, DO NOT BUY A SAIGA IN CALIFORNIA. I JUST GOT AN EMAIL FROM MY FFL THAT THE WEAPON WAS CONFISCATED AS AN ASSAULT RIFLE DURING A CA DOJ INSPECTION. I was supposed to pick it up Monday.

Unclad Lad | 09-16-2007 06:40 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? The Saiga has been banned here almost as long as the AK, since it uses the same receiver, and is a named "Assault Weapon". I'd be really upset at your FFL, who should have known this.

tojaktoty | 09-18-2007 04:43 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Quote:
Originally Posted by DBcooper (Post 738662) Onething bothers me with AKs you cant load it cock it then safety it,its all or nothing.
That is not true. My tantal ak74 that I just received can be cocked and locked. Then when needed I just hit the safety and its ready to roll.

buff01 | 09-18-2007 06:09 PM
Re: Kalifornia-legal AK47 from Atlantic Firearms? Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 739838) The Saiga has been banned here almost as long as the AK, since it uses the same receiver, and is a named "Assault Weapon". I'd be really upset at your FFL, who should have known this.
Not true. "Kalashnikov USA - SAIGA" is banned by name, but "Russian American Armory - Saiga 7.62" is not. It has nothing to do with the receiver. The gun was erroneously confiscated based on its Type 2 name. I am working on getting the rifle returned, and I am definitely upset at the FFL dealer for letting them get away with it!

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