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REV127 | 07-05-2007 07:45 PM
Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe I don't like to use electricity or gasoline where old fashioned muscle power can do just about as well. As I've been working my land I've been using hand tools exclusively, those I bought at the hardware stores in town. I've been using shovels, forks, and I even got a garden claw knock off. As many of you probably already know, you can't hardly buy a good hand tool anymore, the fork would be really handy if the quality wasn't just plain awful. The shovels are ok and get the job done, slowly and with great effort. I have no love for the garden claw. Well, a while back I need to do some bulk weeding so I knew I was going to need a hoe. I didn't know much about hoes at the time but I could tell right away this was going to be another fork situation, all they had in the stores were a piece of sheet metal welded on a bent iron rod and jammed onto the end of a stick. They all sucked so I bought the cheapest one. It wasn't really a hoe, just a hoe-shaped object, but it did the light weeding ok. I tried using it for a bit of digging, too. It did none of these jobs well but I could easily see that there was something to the concept, which reminded me of a flyer I had gotten with my last seed purchase. The flyer was a brochure from Rogue Hoe, who make real deal heavy duty digging and weeding hoes from agricultural disk blades. Tough stuff and very useful by all reports. I was about to order one of these when I saw that the the Rogue Hoes have welded on sockets. I'm sure that in a quality tool like that it's no problem but having been a weldor myself I have a very low opinion of the great majority of commercial welds and knew it would always bug me to see sloppy welding on one of my tools. I searched the net and came across a competitor being sold under the name "azada." They had a full line of heavy duty weeding and digging eye hoes, this time they were forged steel. This is the hoe I bought. I don't want to sound like a commercial but these hoes from Bellotto, the Brazilian agricultural tool company who makes them, really are top notch! The finish is just about what you'd expect on a $25 digging tool but the construction and materials are far, far above anything you'll get at the hardware store. They are forged in a single piece from 1045 high carbon tool steel, differentially tempered and cryo-treated. When I strike the blade the steel rings with a tone almost as lovely to my ear as that of a silver coin. Good stuff. They are actually tapered and sharpened, and fixed at an angle to their handle that makes sense for their intended purpose. It's important to mention the handle, five feet long, enough to use without having to hunch over. Enough about that though, the bottom line is how well it works, which is just great! Others have said they can dig three times as fast with a hoe than they can with a shovel and that has been my result as well. When you factor in the roots it isn't even a comparison, the hoe will effortlessly slice through tree roots as big around as my thumb. You don't chop at the ground, just raise the hoe to about hip level and let it fall, the tool does all the work. There are places on my property that are compacted heavy clay soil, with a shovel I have to litterally jump on with both feet to get it into the dirt, the hoe just cuts in and takes a bite out. I've never used a rototiller but I'm pretty sure I could give a guy with one a run for his money using my hoe and I'd be doing less dammage to my soil in the process. By all accounts the Rogue Hoe ought to be equal in quality and it is made in America, but I have a preference for the forged Bellotto product. Here are the links to both, www.easydigging.com and http://www.roguehoe.com I bought the six inch wide digging hoe and if you only get one agricultural tool to go with those seeds you may have bought for SHTF, this is it. It'll do everything from clearing land, breaking new ground for a garden bed, weeding, trenching for drainage or irrigation, it's just so easy and useful it's a no-brainer. I will be ordering the fork hoe, 8" cultivating hoe and ridging hoe, plus another 6" digging hoe just in case. The Easy Digging website actually has a lot of useful information so he's the site map to browse. http://www.easydigging.com/sitemap.html

Anty Ep | 07-05-2007 08:12 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe rev I know yer all about dirty hoes. lol

Tn...Andy | 07-05-2007 08:15 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Hey Rev....THE best hoe design I've run across in years is the "scuffle" hoe.....I bought mine from a different place, but RogueHoe carries them as well I see... They are absolutely the trick for weeding in and around plants....you never lift it up.....it just shuffles thru the dirt around the plant and clips weeds off at, or just below, ground level......works best, of course, on young weeds, but this thing is so fast to use, you are actually encouraged to weed more and keep them down. The head pictured below, stays parallel with the ground basically, and just clips the weeds off cleanly. REAL light weight, so you can work fast and not get tired. Mine has sort of an angled "T" wood handle.....only thing I've found I need is a second one with a shorter handle for working in tall corn.....the handle on mine is great if you're out working in short plants.....you can stand back from the plant, and really work it....but I've found in tall corn, it's too long, and hangs up on the leaves, etc. You'd love one if you tried it. http://www.roguehoe.com/scufflehoe.html http://www.roguehoe.com/images/60s.jpg

AgAuGal | 07-05-2007 08:16 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe thanks so much for the feedback and links. seems like a gardeners best friend and nice idea not being dependant on a tiller. :D :applause_

Tn...Andy | 07-05-2007 08:41 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Whoa now.....I LOVE my diesel tillers....both the 5' wide one on the back of the tractor, and the 27" Grillo......LOVE 'EM !! But a tiller won't get you right in there next to the plant without taking out the plant.....these scuffle hoe fill that need ! http://www.earthtoolsbcs.com/assets/...grilloG107.jpg By the way, this is where I bought my Grillo, and he also carries the Houge Hoes, and a lot of other hand equipment.....bit cheaper than the place Rev listed..... http://www.earthtoolsbcs.com/html/other_hoes.html

eat_beef | 07-05-2007 09:19 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Around here we call 'em Mattocks. A little farther South, they call them grubbing hoes or grubbing axes. Most of the guys who actually use them (read: members of the barbarian hoarde) call them Teloches. You can get them at any hardware store in my area. LOL, those piece of metal on the end of a stick things are only suitable yuppies to show off in their "tool collection", or old ladies, anyone else would rip 'em apart.:lol:

REV127 | 07-06-2007 12:31 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe A mattock is a bit of a different thing, they have a shorter handle and a double bit head, with either a pick or a cutting blade. They're pretty common out my way too, except you have to bend over to use them and they weigh a lot more than a hoe by design. A mattock is great for a small job but I wouldn't want to do thousands of square feet of garden bed with one. I did find that Ace has a Chinese cast iron eye hoe in a cultivation configuration, but for the price I'd be happier with a Rogue or Bellotto.

Floyd | 07-06-2007 12:40 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Rogue is good stuff I've got the 575g the metal is the heart of the matter if you ask me. I've bought several great ideas made out of cheap mild steel.

Lackluster | 07-06-2007 01:03 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Around here the good old "onion" hoes are all worn out. These are the old, thin, forged blades. Sometimes one might find one at a yard sale. The best I've found are the "co-linear" hoes sold by Johnnys seeds. They have replaceable blades, and are razor sharp. Rev, I agree, the ones they sell at the hardware store are pure junk. Like trying to run a brick through the soil.

cosrl | 07-06-2007 01:25 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Check out Garret Wade for excellent tools. They don't have alot in the way of garden tools but the do have the basics and really nice ones at that. The are mostly a wood working shop. Another place I like is Japan Wood Worker. They also have some good garden tools. Japanese tools are reallllly nice. (And unbelievable sharp!!!)

eat_beef | 07-06-2007 10:38 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe No, Rev, around here they call the tool you pictured on your sites those things. Matter of fact, one of those sites metions the other names. There are other "models" with the double blade configuration. The weight is what makes it easy to use, not hard. You get in a rithym, the weight does the cutting, no downward pressure needed.

sam | 07-06-2007 12:09 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Must have "D" handle potato fork. Bought mine a long time ago when "Bulldog Tools" were labeled and sold in USA as "Clarington Forge". Of average weight and strength, I find ordinary spading forks useless. I have not been able to bend the tines of my "Clarington Forge" potato fork. dtnwn Note: "average weight and strength" is in reference to me, not cheap gardening tools, ...... heh :-)

AMforPM | 07-06-2007 12:52 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe These are great tool reviews. We had grandad's garden tools and a night visitor removed them, which is why we got a dog. So I need some good new hand tools and was not sure where to look. The junk at the hardware store was not appealing. I got a few for temporary use, but they are awful.

RichG | 07-06-2007 02:00 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 655162) Whoa now.....I LOVE my diesel tillers....both the 5' wide one on the back of the tractor, and the 27" Grillo......LOVE 'EM !! But a tiller won't get you right in there next to the plant without taking out the plant.....these scuffle hoe fill that need ! http://www.earthtoolsbcs.com/assets/...grilloG107.jpg By the way, this is where I bought my Grillo, and he also carries the Houge Hoes, and a lot of other hand equipment.....bit cheaper than the place Rev listed..... http://www.earthtoolsbcs.com/html/other_hoes.html
Damnit Andy......now I'm ready to plow up my whole back yard. Can't get off that web site. Splitter...tiller.....bush hog......damnit.....:smokin:

sam | 07-06-2007 02:20 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Found a USA supplier for "Clarington Forge". Johnny's site shows the "D" handle on the potato fork. In the Bulldog/Clarington line of forks, the potato fork has the thickest strongest tines. The "D" part of the handle on my fork is formed from continuous shaft wood. Note 1: There is a cheaper Bulldog line that has plastic "D"s. Note 2: Apparently "Bulldog Tools" was briefly owned by an American company, and quality went down the tubes. Bulldog is now back in British hands, and production back at its traditional location, but I would double check and have a supplier assure you the "Clarington Forge" tool you are buying is labeled "Made in England". dtnwn

REV127 | 07-06-2007 03:12 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Thanks Sam, looks like a great fork! I might add a longer handle, though.

sam | 07-06-2007 04:43 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe REV127- Longer handle? I dunno about that. If you get one and see how beautifully made it is, I'll bet you reconsider the idea. When I jump on the tines with both feet in my Red Wings, both hands are on the "D" handle, palms down and below belt level. Which is where I want them for balance. I think it is why the Brits also make "T" handles, ... so people with large hands can get both hands on the T. As it is, the location of the "D" or "T" affords plenty of leverage. Given any more and you might be able to bend the tines. I mention Red Wing boots because when I jumped on a shovel in my last pair of (forgot the brand) work boots, the sole shank along with the sole broke all the way through. My newish Red Wing #6681 "hiking" boots have been holding up well, .... so far. dtnwn

REV127 | 07-06-2007 04:54 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe I'll try it out in stock trim. The main thing I used the fork for is flipping chunks of sod or soil. I stick the tines into the ground, place my foot behind the tines and then lever on the handle. Some old time forks had a fulcrum deliberately built in behind the tines for this purpose. Anyway, I find this to be much quicker than spading in my soil.

Lackluster | 07-06-2007 05:19 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Here's what I'm talkin' about: http://www.johnnyseeds.com/images/ca...ge/9589_LG.jpg http://www.johnnyseeds.com/catalog/p...sp=4&item=9589 Thanks for the Johnnys link, Sam. When you're hoeing a couple acres of vegetables, you want a good hoe. I've replaced the blade on mine once already. Beautiful tool. Long handle for tall guys like me, blade super sharp, just a joy to use.

sam | 07-06-2007 05:32 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Here's a tip that is compatible with this thread, I think.... I loathe using a nice hatchet to cut out tree roots. A cheap axe is not accurate enough, at least not in my hands, besides the angle is never right for swinging down into a hole. So I ground and filed end of one of my a flat bladed digging bars. Digging bar blades are usually straight ended, I made mine rounded and slimmer in profile, like a hatchet blade, but necessarily not as wide. Once shaped, I can get the edge plenty sharp with a file. Be very careful if you try shaping a long heavy bar on a bench grinder. Shattering a six inch stone spinning at 3600 RPM could be a lil hairy. Also be real careful using an extremely sharp bar. Bet it would slice right though a work boot. Because of the weight and the sharpness, using well-controlled short jabs works great on hard to get at roots. dtnwn

sam | 07-06-2007 09:20 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe http://www.hitachi-c-m.com/au/images...ess/030604.jpg 'Course Tn...Andy simply yanks out dead trees, roots and all with his excavator :D

REV127 | 07-11-2007 11:51 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Andy, I was just wondering about those rototillers... about how many square feet per minute do you figure you can do with one? And what happens if there's rocks roughly the size of softballs close to the surface?

Tn...Andy | 07-12-2007 06:14 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Quote:
Originally Posted by RichG (Post 655814) Damnit Andy......now I'm ready to plow up my whole back yard. Can't get off that web site. Splitter...tiller.....bush hog......damnit.....:smokin:
Yards are useless....plow away man !

Tn...Andy | 07-12-2007 06:24 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 661022) Andy, I was just wondering about those rototillers... about how many square feet per minute do you figure you can do with one? And what happens if there's rocks roughly the size of softballs close to the surface?
Rev, it has a 3 speed transmission, so I guess, in theory, one could till in 3rd gear....but you'd literally have to run to keep up with it, and I don't know how much tilling you'd do. Running a hand tiller takes control if you have plants already there, so this one probably doesn't run any faster than any other tiller....sqft/min ? ....hmmm....say 2' wide, and in a minute, you could run probably 20-25'...so say 40-50sqft/min....sounds about right.....never really thought about it that way, but I KNOW it's a whale of a lot faster than hand hoeing. As to rocks, and I have plenty of them, it will either toss them to the side, hop over them, or occasionally stall out the engine if one catches between the tines and the housing over the tines. I often hang a sheetrock bucket on one of the handlebars, and pick up rocks as I go.....I've probably picked up a dumptruck load of rocks in that garden spot thru the years.

Darkside | 07-12-2007 09:00 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Is that $25 hoe sold in any stores? With shipping it would come out to $40 ...

REV127 | 07-12-2007 10:02 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Thanks for the feedback Andy. I was turning over some ground yesterday and found I can do about 4 square feet per minute with my hoe moving at a comfortable pace I could keep up for a few hours. While that's plenty fast enough for me you've definately got the speed advantage with your tiller. A horse drawn plow would probably be a better comparison. Darkside, shipping is only $3 more for each tool past the first so it's more economical to buy several. The 6" digging hoe is the most versatile imho but the 8" cultivating hoe, ridging hoe and fork hoe offer some unique specializations and are worth getting. I also subscribe the the philosophy that two is one and one is none so I'm ordering an extra 6" digger. I don't mind paying for quality regardless. As far as what you might find in a store goes, Ace Hardware had a cast iron Chinese equivalent for $30. Lowes, Home Depot and Tractor Supply Company had nothing similar.

____hoot____ | 07-13-2007 11:49 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Hoed a 50X80 foot garden last night in less than ten minutes on about an ounce of gas with a Homelite straight shaft string trimmer with a 10" wide rototiller head. Sorry I'm not a "purist" when it comes to hoeing. Was working in the fields doing beans and pickles for a quarter an hour[this was when it was still silver] before I was 10; had my blisters! Got the rig as a "refurb" with grass and brush cutting heads too for $140 from the traveling Cummins Tools outfit three years ago. Some of the best money I've ever spent.

REV127 | 07-13-2007 12:33 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe It's not an issue of purity. Since this is a SHTF/survivalist forum that is the perspective I consider it from. Many urbanites and suburbanites live in apartments or very small lots and are potential refugees. If they need to make an escape they will have a hard time finding room for even a smaller rototiller and fuel. Once they get where they're going the sound of a small gas engine can attract unwanted attention from quite a distance around, same as running a loud gasoline powered generator after the electricity goes down thanks to a hurricane or other disaster. If the roads become jammed or otherwise blocked it is very unlikely you'll be able to drag along the tiller with all the other needful things you must carry. The hoe weighs only a few pounds and you really only need to bring the head, a handle can be improvised at the site when you arrive. You can also construct a shelter using the hoe which is something you probably can't do with the tiller. Heck, the hoe makes a pretty good weapon in hand to hand combat, hold it handle forward for parrying like you do with a fighting axe... there's even a kung fu form that makes use of the hoe as a weapon. Many people buy seeds for SHTF but have no adequate way of working the ground. This tool offers a unique blend of versatility, speed, portability, low maintenance, low cost and no reliance on fuel. Personally I choose to do things by hand for many reasons, not the least of which is I do not like to be reliant upon systems that are out of my control, unsustainable or beyond by ability to maintain. It's a family ethic, my great grandfather generated his own electricity and worked his many acres by horse and by hand well into his 70's. I also enjoy the quiet work free from gas or exhaust fumes. My ears don't ring when I'm done and I can hear the world around me while I work, something that is enjoyable now but will be more important should SHTF ever come about. Last but not least, it's great excercise. If I were to get a tiller I'd want a diesel like Andy's in the hope that it could be made to run on biodiesel or SVO.

Maddie | 07-13-2007 09:34 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Quote:
Originally Posted by sam (Post 656004) Here's a tip that is compatible with this thread, I think.... I loathe using a nice hatchet to cut out tree roots. A cheap axe is not accurate enough, at least not in my hands, besides the angle is never right for swinging down into a hole. So I ground and filed end of one of my a flat bladed digging bars. Digging bar blades are usually straight ended, I made mine rounded and slimmer in profile, like a hatchet blade, but necessarily not as wide. Once shaped, I can get the edge plenty sharp with a file.
I second that. We use a digging bar to cut out roots, too. It's so much easier and safer than hacking at them with a hatchet.

____hoot____ | 07-13-2007 09:49 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Like I said Rev; I'm not a purist one way or the other on the issue. I value the worth of a good hand hoe also and look for good old time ones at the sales. Know that I have at least 3 hand hoes with handles, a couple without and a good mattock around the place at this time. Have given the thought and practice of stealth cultivation some of my time also. Don't want to steal or divert your great thread, but I wish to point these tools[string-trimmer-rotos]out as haveing some very good uses. Under thirty pounds and breaks down thus packable off-road quite a distance, quiet as a fancy little Honda generator and less obvious at a distance under most wind conditions than the "thwack" of a hard swung heavy hoe, a solid horsepower of energy focused on a small tiller head area that will cut through thick virgin thatch and do a surprizeing amount of work in a short period of time, and they will run all day on a gallon of gas. When used to cultivate weeds in my garden it is on or near idle most of the time.

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money matters | 07-14-2007 02:49 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Old ways do die hard, don't they? Anyone look into or try French Intensive gardening methods? This is a mode of achieving maximum yields from minimum space, and does away with many of the maintenance headaches. Companion planting also works to minimize bug/disease losses. Row cropping is basically a waste of space compared to the deep bed practices of French Intensive. Might try looking for The Natural Way of Farming by Masanobu Fukuoka at your library. Any ideas you can glean from this book to improve your soil bed, save your time and attention for other more pressing matters in the days ahead will be better than money in the bank! Time is the one commodity none of us gets anymore of. Only 24hrs per day. If you can raise better food, with less "work", it gives you more time to deal with other necessary matters; or is everyone on this thread already set up in their remote valhalla of self-sufficiency? The author cited above makes the case for not plowing the soil, abstaining from fertilizers (although natural soil enrichment is encouraged), and not weeding to mention a few time saving and better food producing techniques. Might even consider planting extras outside your fenced area to encourage wildlife to visit your home. Pretty nice when your dinner comes calling rather than makes you hunt it down. Feeders work and acclimate deer/turkey to expect something to eat; but better to have crops and plants so they'll keep coming around. If you save time and money by altering your methods, you can invest some resources to encourage wildlife to visit you.

REV127 | 07-14-2007 05:23 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Actually the ground I've been turning over lately is going to be used for double dug beds... about 2,500 square feet of actual bed. Right now I'm just breaking ground, though. I've planted some sunflower on part of it, I'll probably plant some corn on the other half. I don't intend to do the double digging till October when things cool down, I'm just loosening the soil and prepping the compost till then. Hoot, it's no hijack at all. You can't really know what you have till you compare it to something else. One of my current side projects is a 5hp stirling engine that will run on SVO. I still need to build a furnace to melt the aluminum and iron to build the engine so I probably won't start pouring till November or December but if it works out well I'm interested in adapting the technology to a small tractor for various tasks. It takes less space to grow fuel for the tractor than it does to grow food for a horse because the tractor only eats while its working. Stirling engines are generally very quiet as well.

Quixote2 | 07-25-2007 11:21 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Check your local Ace Hardware: http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(zt...alue=grape+hoe

REV127 | 08-08-2007 11:47 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe I just got done using my hoe to create a double dug raised bed 50 feet long and two feet wide on unbroken ground. It took me about 2 hours and I wasn't going particularly fast. I have learned that it is better to go wide than narrow with this type of bed, you'll get more plantable surface for the labor you put in and it will be more erosion resistant. The first such beds I dug were for sunflowers and I only made them 1 foot wide, this time I doubled the width and got a better result but I think 3 to 5 feet wide would be just about ideal. I'm using a modified double digging technique as an adaptation to local conditions. When it's dry it's very very dry here, but when it rains it pours. We get 60 some-odd inches over about 5 months. Because of this drainage is important, as is having a bed that is raised high enough to avoid getting swamped out in a particularly heavy downpour. What I came up with, I'm sure somebody else figured it out long before me, is to first use the hoe to break up and turn over the ground to the depth of the blade in a rectangle the full width and length of the desired bed. I do this walking forward the length of the bed. After the soil is so-loosened I stand perpendicular to the bed and use the hoe to chop and drag sod from beyond the edge of the bed onto its top. After I've done both sides this way I do back and use the hoe to trench out where I removed the sod to throw on top of the bed, this is for top dressing so dig as much as is needed but you don't have to go nuts. After this I tamp the sides to firm up the ridge and then flatten down the top to make a planting surface. The resulting raised bed is dug to a depth of 18 inches, stands a foot or so above the surface of the ground, is provided with two trenches to catch and drain water and has built-in compost in the form of the sod. While this doesn't burry the sod as deeply as the more usual technique I'm not particularly paranoid about weeds and intensive planting will tend to shade out the great majority of weeds anyway. The chickens are a great help during this process as they gobble up any grubs that get uncovered and inevitably add a little high nitrogen fertilizer in the process.

Anty Ep | 08-09-2007 12:08 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe my garden's prolly pretty humble compared to y'alls but I cut it out of regular lawn sod. I turned the first half over several years ago with a fork and spade, thinking I would do this for fun and exercise. Exercise it was and fun it was not. It was slow as hell and I was amazed that it was much harder work than anticipated. The next time I expanded it I went down to ace hardware and rented this little "mantis" tiller for $30 and had the same amount of space done in 2 hours or less, what previously took me four or five back breaking days if I recall correctly.

REV127 | 08-09-2007 12:49 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Yeah, shovels are ridiculous. As I've gotten better with the hoe I find I have less and less use for a shovel. It took me several days to do with a shovel what I can now do in a couple hours with a hoe. The digging fork was a little better than the shovel, at least until the tines bent every which way, but it was still a lot harder work and much slower than the hoe. I think I'll do another 50x2 bed tonight next to the other one for uniformity's sake. I've still got another three months of warm weather before I need to plant cold weather crops but these will be my experimental winter beds. I did some planting this morning on the bed I made last night. I've got okra, groundcherry, mustard, watermelon and cabbage in. With mulch and watering I think I can keep the cabbage roots cool enough to prevent bolting.

REV127 | 08-09-2007 09:44 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Well, I opted to dig 3 Sisters hills today instead. In an hour and a half I finished 7 of them. Each hill is three feet wide, six inches tall and planted with 7 corn stalks, 7 pole bean stalks and 7 squash vines. The approximate caloric yield from this would be 200, 000 for one comeplete harvest, or enough food for 100 days. It's the squash that really makes the calories. In one day you could dig enough to feed you all year. Mine get planted tomorrow. Haven't had much luck with corn on the clay soil I was trying to grow it in so for my last chance planting it this year I made the hills on an area that is loam. I've got some other stands of corn in but it's too early to tell how it will go. Corn does not seem to like pine trees.

Anty Ep | 08-10-2007 10:49 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe whats your latitude there? http://www.astro.com/cgi/aq.cgi?lang=e

TheSimpleton | 08-10-2007 10:49 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe This thread is on breaking sod and larger tools but I cannot praise highly enough the japanese hand hoe (look for nijiri) or the wheel hoe, particularly the old Planet Jr. The nijiri is astounding, and for small spaces much better than say the swan hoe from Lehman's (an Amish scuffle hoe). It digs, dives for taproots, cultivates to separate quackgrass, etc, and is still sharp enough to scuffle. Unfortunately, the best ever was discontinued from Smith&Hawkin, now lost in yuppieland, and I haven't found the same manufacturer even in Japan. It could be made with a leaf spring and welder, but the size and angles are crucial so you'd need a template. The Planet Jr is God's gift to man. You walk up and down the row as with a push broom and the slicing hoes surf the soil underneath. Once every 5 days and you never see a weed--it looks like a kitchen floor. Not carrying the tool is a great advantage. I haven't used them, but don't like the look of the swiss stirrup wheel hoes say from Johnny's. Expensive, too, with rubber to rot. Lehman's makes perfect cast-iron reproductions, but the price ($200US) makes them cheaper on eBay ($120US). Cultivator claws are okay, but a lot of work and not what the slicing hoes are. Cast iron, they have already survived since 1930 and are showing no wear. Perhaps new handles, which are easy to make. I haven't had a lot of luck with grub hoes. The plow slips through the soil smoothly. Certainly shovels are nothing but work. Read "Walden" where Thoreau speaks of the cost of food and heavy shoes being a dead loss vs the hourly wage of the Irish workman. All these things point to one solution: permaculture. Garden as little as possible. Put another way, garden the world. The natives did this and had a lot of free time, the white just didn't see the "gardening" they were doing in Chesnut trees, turkeys, burning hillsides, berries, transplanting, grooming out certain varieties, etc. Looked like a lot of goofing off to them because like all good machines, once the land was filled with food varieties, it took very little maintenance to keep it going. Most did grow some crops, however, and had no more than a shoulder-bone hoe and a dooryard garden(read: square foot). Should be good enough once the surrounding brush and forests are planted thick with foods. Not exactly addition to deep-hoeing, but relevant nonetheless. TS

REV127 | 10-07-2007 10:20 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Quote:
Originally Posted by sam (Post 655701) Must have "D" handle potato fork. Bought mine a long time ago when "Bulldog Tools" were labeled and sold in USA as "Clarington Forge". Of average weight and strength, I find ordinary spading forks useless. I have not been able to bend the tines of my "Clarington Forge" potato fork. dtnwn Note: "average weight and strength" is in reference to me, not cheap gardening tools, ...... heh :-)
I'd still like to try out the potato fork you reccomended here but today I made a score I just have to brag about! At a local bargain market I found a forged stainless steel D handle digging fork with a full socket tang... guess how much I paid? Nope, you'll never get it right so let me tell you, under $12.00 after tax!!! The guy didn't know what he had and didn't care, scooped it up for next to nothing from a business that was closing down apparently. My wife took one look at it and said the metal value must be more than the sticker price! I did end up planting some corn in the area I had dug initially for sunflowers. It worked out the best so far, I've got some Bloody Butcher six or seven feet tall forming ears right now. That 2x50' double dug bed I created earlier is now being expanded to 250sqft of bed, all the work is being done with the hoe but I'll probably end up using the fork for turning in manures and pulling up plants after the beds are created. I'm well pleased with the hoe. I have moved a prodigious quantity of earth and pulled up vast piles of stones with the thing. I've found you want to leave an inch or so of handle protruding through the eye when you affix the head to the handle. I did a lot of digging in wet areas or wet weather that took their toll on the wooden handle. I'd probably apply 4 or 5 coats of tung oil next time instead of two and try not to work in the rain or under water. The problem is when the wood gets wetted through the grain and you use the hoe to lever up a large rock it warps and squashes the wood, eventually loosening the head. You can get extra life out of the handle if you saw off the dammaged portion of the end, use a big fat saw to cut a new notch and then affix the head in the normal fashion. If you do this more than a couple times the handle will start getting a bit short, at least for my taste, of course. It will still be plenty long enough to rehandle a shovel or fork, though.

nadcarves | 10-07-2007 11:16 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe I picked up another mattock at a flea market for $8.00..We have clay soil and the extra weight makes all the difference in the world to get things done..You do have to sharpen them,,,,not difficult..A friend ,from Ethiopia, had several of his country folk visiting.. They came over to see my little garden, spotted the mattock and it was OLD HOME WEEK.They use the tool every day,and were the ones to show me it needed sharpening......About twenty years ago,make that 30 plus, I had a race with a tiller breaking up clay soil for a distance of about thirty feet..Won, was pooped, but so was the kid on the light weight tiller..You have the basic tools,seed, know how to make compost, and learn intensive gardening, you will be able to feed others.The trick is to let the mattock's weight do the work.....

Squirrel Bait | 10-08-2007 12:14 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Thanks Rev, been lookin' for something like this. Wish I'd come over to this website a long time ago. SB

Andy9999 | 10-12-2007 07:59 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe 2 Attachment(s) Just arrived strong, sturdy, these tools sound like silver bell<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> a little to big like for my needs but I'm very pleased<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

AgAuGal | 10-12-2007 10:40 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Quote:
Originally Posted by nadcarves (Post 767542) I picked up another mattock at a flea market for $8.00..We have clay soil and the extra weight makes all the difference in the world to get things done..You do have to sharpen them,,,,not difficult..A friend ,from Ethiopia, had several of his country folk visiting.. They came over to see my little garden, spotted the mattock and it was OLD HOME WEEK.They use the tool every day,and were the ones to show me it needed sharpening......About twenty years ago,make that 30 plus, I had a race with a tiller breaking up clay soil for a distance of about thirty feet..Won, was pooped, but so was the kid on the light weight tiller..You have the basic tools,seed, know how to make compost, and learn intensive gardening, you will be able to feed others.The trick is to let the mattock's weight do the work.....
Waht is a mattock? Is it a brand of hoe? Is it still available?

AgAuGal | 10-12-2007 10:44 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe This may seem like a silly ? but here it goes - why go thru the effort of making/maintaining a raised bed instead of just planting in the ground the bed is on? Is it for looks or is there a practical reason?

Andy9999 | 10-13-2007 12:34 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Quote:
Originally Posted by AgAuGal (Post 776677) This may seem like a silly ? but here it goes - why go thru the effort of making/maintaining a raised bed instead of just planting in the ground the bed is on? Is it for looks or is there a practical reason?
The reasons: 1-my little dog ,fence would be required to protect garden 2-12 in higher to work on 3-never step on soil and no compaction 4-therefore no digging required (we will see next year) 5-raised bed utilize 100% of garden area (extensive gardening) 6-planting in the ground -lots of wasted space 7-They heat up faster, no compaction because you never walk on it, perfect drainage assuming the medium you put in it is good to begin with. 8-probably a lot of other explanation in the following forum http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/sqfoot/ and search or this http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ others opinions SQUARE FOOT GARDENING THE MOST PRACTICAL PREPAREDNESS GARDEN During a time of crisis, when we may be living on what we can produce, it will be important that gardening have the features of Square Foot Gardening: � Easy to understand. Does not require extensive training or years of experience Anything to make gardening easier or simpler should be done. This is especially true for beginners, but even experienced gardeners will benefit from easier methods. � Requires much less effort; No Heavy Digging, No Tilling, Very Little Weeding There will be much to do. Having LESS to do in the garden will really help! � 5 times more productive than conventional gardening Few families have enough land to be self-sustaining. Therefore, high production in a small space is needed. The Square Foot Gardening method is at least 5 times more productive in the same amount of space as conventional row gardening. � Uses much less water - Each plant is given just enough Water may not be flowing from the tap, and may even have to be carried long distances by hand. Using a minimum amount of water will be important. � Uses fewer seeds. No seed goes to waste Seeds may not be easily available. None will go to waste through over-sowing. � Is not dependant on fertilizers. Your own compost provides the nutrients Commercial fertilizer may not be available. Compost is renewable and sustainable. � Does not require a tiller or other expensive tools Gasoline to run a tiller may not be available, nor may other garden tools. � Can be done anywhere - Soil is not an issue Traditional gardening usually takes several years to �condition� the soil. Square Foot Gardening uses an easily prepared soil mixture that replaces �bad soil�, providing excellent results immediately.

wallew | 10-13-2007 12:54 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Andy, I can't believe it. I've got TILLER ENVY! Dang man. That's from a gardener for more that fifteen years. I've got a 5.5 hp Briggs & Stratton powered four tine tiller made for Sears. I did my garden by hand for about eleven years. One year, I was flat exhausted from turning over and enriching our 400 sq ft (ish) garden. My wife took pity on me and next season bought me this really fine tiller. And you folks are NOT shopping at the right places. The FIRST place you should be shopping is estate sales. Generally you will find the garden implements in the back of the sale area. If you do NOT see any, ask. Some times the person running the sale didn't even think of selling them and will let them go cheap. Or consider www.Lehmans.com or http://www.cumberlandgeneral.com/ or http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/j...Type=HOME_PAGE . All three of these carry 'OLD STYLE' tools. Some of which you will have not seen EVER. I own at least two (generally three or more) of every garden tool I own. I've even got two 5' steel picks (flat top, pointy end, 5' long of hardened steel) that will tackle even the hardest, rockiest ground efficiently. But man will they wear you out.

AgAuGal | 10-13-2007 01:26 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Thank you Andy, you exceeded my expectations with your responseand reasons. Good reason to invest the time and effort. Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy9999 (Post 776813) The reasons: 1-my little dog ,fence would be required to protect garden 2-12 in higher to work on 3-never step on soil and no compaction 4-therefore no digging required (we will see next year) 5-raised bed utilize 100% of garden area (extensive gardening) 6-planting in the ground -lots of wasted space 7-They heat up faster, no compaction because you never walk on it, perfect drainage assuming the medium you put in it is good to begin with. 8-probably a lot of other explanation in the following forum http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/sqfoot/ and search or this http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ others opinions SQUARE FOOT GARDENING THE MOST PRACTICAL PREPAREDNESS GARDEN During a time of crisis, when we may be living on what we can produce, it will be important that gardening have the features of Square Foot Gardening: � Easy to understand. Does not require extensive training or years of experience Anything to make gardening easier or simpler should be done. This is especially true for beginners, but even experienced gardeners will benefit from easier methods. � Requires much less effort; No Heavy Digging, No Tilling, Very Little Weeding There will be much to do. Having LESS to do in the garden will really help! � 5 times more productive than conventional gardening Few families have enough land to be self-sustaining. Therefore, high production in a small space is needed. The Square Foot Gardening method is at least 5 times more productive in the same amount of space as conventional row gardening. � Uses much less water - Each plant is given just enough Water may not be flowing from the tap, and may even have to be carried long distances by hand. Using a minimum amount of water will be important. � Uses fewer seeds. No seed goes to waste Seeds may not be easily available. None will go to waste through over-sowing. � Is not dependant on fertilizers. Your own compost provides the nutrients Commercial fertilizer may not be available. Compost is renewable and sustainable. � Does not require a tiller or other expensive tools Gasoline to run a tiller may not be available, nor may other garden tools. � Can be done anywhere - Soil is not an issue Traditional gardening usually takes several years to �condition� the soil. Square Foot Gardening uses an easily prepared soil mixture that replaces �bad soil�, providing excellent results immediately.

Andy9999 | 10-20-2007 09:50 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe 2 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy9999 (Post 776376) Just arrived strong, sturdy, these tools sound like silver bell<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> a little to big like for my needs but I'm very pleased<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>
My new tools arrived today, these are smaller and more elegant -see for yourself,<o:p></o:p> easy digging are strong and I think more for farm use ,Rogue are for small garden (not for hard core gardening)<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 24pt; HEIGHT: 24pt" alt="0" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:href="http://goldismoney.info/forums/images/smilies/s9.gif" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Ola\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_ima ge001.gif"></v:imagedata></v:shape><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p>

Tn...Andy | 10-20-2007 10:29 PM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe You're gonna LOVE that little triangle headed scuffle hoe......you can weed like the dickens with it ! REV....this year, I've used about 2 gallons of diesel fuel in my tiller.....assuming I never used the tractor for any work, I'd doubt it would run over 10 gallons in a season. I've got 8-55 gallon drums of diesel stored...couple more of kerosene that would sub in a pinch, and normally have 100-150 or so more gallons in a tank on a stand.....at double my current rate of use, I'm fairly sure that will do my lifetime......:D

REV127 | 10-21-2007 12:00 AM
Re: Must Have Tool, The Eye Hoe Thanks for posting the Rogues, I might look into the scuffle. After you've had a chance to use them for a while I'd be interested in hearing a review. Hey TN, how deep down does that tractor work? I'm double digging my market garden so I'll have three feet of soil worked and won't have to do it again but it occurs to me that I could improve my pasture by adding char over the next couple years. 5,000sqft ain't bad with the hoe. A full acre of actual worked surface is a lot, 9 times as much. It'd go faster with the tractor which you said can handle large rocks(the old time Indian name for where I live means "lots of stones" hahaha) and if it can work down to 1 foot that should be deep enough.

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