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still afloat | 07-14-2009 12:48 AM
Brine Pickle help please. Ok , its been atleast 30 years since I had them and at the age I was at the time , eating them was all I cared about . Well Great grandmother is long since gone and nobody in the family remembers exactly how she did them . What I remember and the combined memory of my dad and his mother we have the following , but I'd love to hear detailed instructions from anyone who makes brine pickles these days. What is remembered , I remember when visiting ,heading to the cellar and to the pickle crock. Pushing the mold or such to the side and pulling out a pickle , rince it off and eat it . As to the instructions , Dad remembers she would take an egg , put it in the crock , add water then add salt till the egg floated , then added the cucumbers , covered with a plate and he thiks 18 to 36 days later they were finished , that is if they lasted that long from us getting into them.Beyond that from what we remember they would keep in the brine without any other preserving needed til they were gone . I'm sure there was more to it than that so any help is appreciated . What other than a 3gal crock that she used can be used , glass , plastic .etc ?I've got 15 to 20 cucumbers about ready now . Instructions I've seen online say after so long to wash them and can them , she never did that , just stayed in the crock . Thanks for any help.

CJT | 07-14-2009 08:38 AM
Re: Brine Pickle help please. I just put up a batch, I use a Harsch fermenting crock. They take 2-3 weeks to ferment, generally, but that will depend on your temperature. The method of checking the brine that you mention (until and egg) floats, is way heavier in salt than needed. Any current cookbook will tell you this. Basic Pickle Brine Recipe You can adjust this recipe to make larger or smaller quantities; just be sure to keep the proportions of salt to vinegar to water the same. 1 3/4 cups pickling salt (not iodized) 2 1/2 gallons water 2 1/2 cups vinegar 1/2-3/4 cup Pickling Spice Mix (buy or make your own) 2-3 bunches whole dill heads or 1 cup dried dill weed Garlic cloves to taste (up to 1 head, peeled and separated) Mix the salt into the water until it is completely dissolved (the water will start out cloudy, then grow clear). Add the vinegar and the cheesecloth bag containing the spices and, if you're pickling cucumbers, add the dill. Include garlic if you wish. Makes enough brine for about 20 pounds (about 1/2 bushel) of vegetables.

Golddust | 07-14-2009 12:06 PM
Re: Brine Pickle help please. Some good info. http:///www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/DJ1091.html Making Fermented Pickles and Sauerkraut William Schafer Extension Food Technologist http://www.extension.umn.edu/images/maroonline.gif Copyright � 2009 Regents of the University of Minnesota. All rights reserved. <center>USDA Methods Dill Pickles Refrigerator Dills, Whole Pack Sweet Gherkin Pickles 14-Day Sweet Pickles Sauerkraut </center> <hr> The combination of acid, spices, and sugar with cucumbers creates the acidic food product known as pickles. A popular food, pickles are relatively easy to preserve. However, important steps must be followed to ensure safety and the desired quality of the final product. Before you begin the pickling process, you need to consider the type of pickles you will be making. Kinds of Pickles Pickle products are classified on the basis of ingredients used and the method of preparation. There are two general classes: Fermented pickles or brined pickles undergo a curing process for several weeks in which fermentative bacteria produce acids necessary for the preservation process. These bacteria also generate flavor compounds which are associated with fermented pickles. Other vegetables may be fermented, such as using cabbage to produce sauerkraut. Initial fermentation may be followed by the addition of acid to produce such products as half dills or sweet gherkins. Methods for these products are included in this publication. Fresh-pack or quick process pickles (i.e., whole cucumber dills, crosscut cucumber slices, bread-and-butter pickles) are made by the addition of an acid such as vinegar and not by the natural fermentation of the vegetable. The art flavor of these easily prepared products is due to the acetic acid in vinegar. Fruit pickles are also made using a fresh-pack or quick process. These are usually prepared from whole fruits or smaller pieces and simmered in a spicy, sweet-sour syrup. Fruits such as peaches, pears, and watermelon rind may be used. Other examples of pickle products are relishes. These are prepared from fruits and vegetables which are chopped, acidified, seasoned, and then heated to desired consistency. Refer to Making Fresh-Pack Pickles, FO-1090, for additional information. Safety Precautions Control of Acidity Whether fresh-pack/quick process or fermented, both types of pickles require sufficient acidity to prevent the growth of Clostridium botulinum and possible toxin production. Refer to the Food Acidity and Processing Methods section of the publication, Safe Home Canning of Fruits, Vegetables and Meats, BU-0516, for a more detailed explanation. The following safety tips are critical when preparing pickle products: Do not alter salt, vinegar, produce, or water proportions. Never use a vinegar with unknown acidity. Use only methods with tested proportions of ingredients that are recommended by USDA, Minnesota or other state extension services, home canning equipment manufacturers, or other reputable sources. Ensure a uniform and adequate level of acid throughout the product using accurate measuring and thorough mixing of ingredients. Follow recommended temperatures, time, and weight usage during fermentation. Salt is a critical ingredient for fermented products. It helps to prevent undesirable bacteria from growing instead of the naturally present, desirable bacteria that produces lactic acid. Keeping the correct temperature during the fermentation is also important to be certain that the desired bacteria grow and produce the needed acid and flavor compounds. Heat Processing Yeast and molds are common spoilage microorganisms of acid foods such as pickles. These and most acid-tolerant bacteria are destroyed by proper water bath processing. Remember that increasing altitude requires a longer processing time because the boiling temperature of water is lowered. Use only recommended methods with researched processing conditions to prevent spoilage. Ingredients Vegetables Cucumbers. Select a variety of unwaxed cucumbers intended for pickling. Do not expect good quality pickles if you use immature table-type or "slicing" cucumbers. Use 1� inch cucumbers for gherkins; 4 inch for dills. Odd-shaped and more mature cucumbers should be used for relishes and bread-and-butter style pickles. For optimum quality, pickle the cucumbers within 24 hours after picking. If you can't do this, at least refrigerate or spread out the produce where it will be well ventilated and remain cool. Wash the cucumbers thoroughly, especially around the stem area to remove soil containing bacteria. Remove the blossom end to prevent softening by enzymes. Do not use produce that contains mold. Proper processing will destroy the organism but not the off-flavors which may have been produced. Other vegetables and fruits used in pickle products should be fresh and of a good quality. Dill. Use clean, fresh, insect-free heads of dill. Avoid overmature, dry, brown dill. Frozen dill may be used if stored in airtight containers, but flavor loss or change may occur. Vinegar For those products requiring added vinegar, check the label to be sure the vinegar contains 4 to 6 percent acetic acid; 40 to 60 grain acetic acid on the label means the same thing. DO NOT USE homemade vinegar or barrel vinegar of unknown acidity. Cider vinegar or white distilled vinegar may be used in pickle methods. Cider vinegar has a more mellow taste, but may discolor certain vegetables. White distilled vinegar has a sharper taste; it is not imitation or synthetic vinegar. Use white vinegar where a light color is important. DO NOT dilute the vinegar unless the procedure specifies. DO NOT use less vinegar per quantity of cucumbers than is stated. Doing this will change the preservative effect. Salt Use special canning salt which does not contain any iodine and anticaking agents that sometimes cause darkening and cloudiness in pickles. Again, this is a critical ingredient for fermented products because it inhibits the growth of undesirable bacteria. DO NOT USE LESS SALT OR MORE WATER THAN THE PROCEDURE REQUIRES. Water Use soft water if possible. Extremely hard water can cause discoloration of pickles, particularly if it has a high iron content. Some types of hard water may be somewhat softened by the following method. Boil water for 15 minutes, skim off the scum, and let the water rest 24 hours. When the sediment has settled to the bottom, pour off the water from the top and use. Sugar White or brown sugar may be used. Brown sugar may darken the liquid slightly. If you plan to use a non-nutritive, saccharin-type sweetener, follow the instructions that accompany these products. Spices Use fresh spices for the best flavor in pickle products. Store leftover spices in airtight containers and in a cool place. Firming Agents Alum may be safely used to firm fermented pickles. However, it is unnecessary and is not included in this publication. The calcium in lime also improves pickle firmness. Food-grade lime may be used as a lime-water solution for soaking fresh cucumbers 12 to 24 hours before pickling them. However, excess lime neutralizes or removes acidity and so must be washed out to make safe pickles. Drain the lime-water solution, rinse and then re-soak the cucumbers in fresh water for 1 hour. Repeat the rinsing and soaking steps two more times. Equipment Needed For Measuring Measuring cups and spoon. You will need household scales if ingredients are specified by weight. For Fermentation Suitable containers, covers, and weights: A 1-gallon container is needed for each 5 pounds of fresh vegetables. Therefore, a 5-gallon stone crock is of ideal size for fermenting about 25 pounds of fresh cabbage or cucumbers. Food-grade plastic and glass containers are excellent substitutes for stone crocks. Other 1- to 3-gallon non-food-grade plastic containers may be used if lined inside with a clean food-grade plastic bag. Caution: Be certain that foods contact only food-grade plastics. Do not use garbage bags or trash liners. Fermenting sauerkraut in quart and �-gallon Mason jars is an acceptable practice, but may result in more spoilage losses. Cabbage and cucumbers must be kept 1 to 2 inches under brine while fermenting. After adding prepared vegetables and brine, insert a suitably sized dinner plate or glass pie plate inside the fermentation container. The plate must be slightly smaller than the container opening, yet large enough to cover most of the shredded cabbage or cucumbers. To keep the plate under the brine, place 2 to 3 sealed quart jars filled with water on the plate. Covering the container opening with a clean, heavy bath towel helps to prevent contamination from insects and molds while the vegetables are fermenting. Fine quality fermented vegetables are also obtained when the plate is weighted down with a very large clean, plastic bag filled with 3 quarts of water containing 4� tablespoons of salt. The bag should be properly sealed. Freezer bags sold for packaging turkeys are suitable for use with 5-gallon containers. The fermentation container, plate, and jars must be washed in hot sudsy water, and rinsed well with very hot water before use. For Heating Pickling Liquids Use unchipped enamelware, stainless steel, aluminum, or glass pans for heating pickling liquids. DO NOT use copper, iron, or galvanized utensils. These metals may react with acids or salts and cause undesirable colors and flavors, or even form toxic compounds in the pickle mixture. For Packing the Pickles Use standard canning jars free of chips, cracks, or nicks which could prevent an airtight seal. Wide-mouth jars are easiest for dill pickles. Other types of jars are not heat tempered and often break during heat processing. Have the jars clean and hot when packing them prior to heat processing. Thoroughly wash, scald, and keep the jars hot; or if you have a dishwasher, put the jars through the complete cycle. Two-piece, self-sealing lids are the most widely used type of sealing device. The lids can be used only once. For Processing the Pickles Heat process all pickle products in a boiling water bath to destroy yeast, molds, and bacteria that cause product spoilage and to inactivate enzymes that may affect color, flavor, and texture of the pickle product. Heat processing pickles also ensures a good seal on the jar. Any large pan that allows jars standing on a rack to be covered by 1-2 inches of boiling water may be used as a water bath canner. Other Equipment This may include measuring spoons, measuring cups, knives, jar lifters, tongs for handling the hot lids and bands, a ladle, a colander, a funnel with a large opening, potholders or mitts, and wooden boards or folded newspapers on which to place hot jars. USDA Methods These methods are based on research sponsored by the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) and conducted at the Extension Service Center for Excellence in Home Food Preservation, Pennsylvania State University. Generally, these differ from previous USDA and current Minnesota methods in the following ways: Increased processing times adjusted for altitude to ensure adequate heat treatment. Only processing times for the maximum Minnesota altitude (2,000 ft.) are given in this publication. If your location altitude is below 1,000 ft., you may deduct 5 minutes from the recommended processing time. Note: <small>If you move to another state, be sure to check with the local cooperative extension office for the correct processing recommendations. </small> Option of using lime as a firming agent followed by three rinsing and soaking treatments. Selection of Fresh Cucumbers Quantity: An average of 14 pounds is needed per canner load of 7 quarts; an average of 9 pounds is needed per canner load of 9 pints. A bushel weighs 48 pounds and yields 16 to 24 quarts—an average of 2 pounds per quart. Quality: Select firm cucumbers of the appropriate size: about 1� inches for gherkins and 4 inches for dills. Use odd-shaped and more mature cucumbers for relishes and bread-and-butter style pickles. Low-Temperature Pasteurization Treatment Caution: Use only when method indicates. The following treatment results in a better product texture but must be carefully managed to avoid possible spoilage. Place jars in a canner filled halfway with warm (120� to 140� F) water. Then, add hot water to a level 1 inch above jars. Heat the water enough to maintain 180� to 185� F water temperature for 30 minutes. Check with a candy or jelly thermometer to be certain that the water temperature is at least 180� F during the entire 30 minutes. Temperatures higher than 185� F may cause unnecessary softening of pickles. Dill Pickles Use the following quantities for each gallon capacity of your container. 4 lbs. of 4-inch pickling cucumbers 2 Tbsp. dill seed or 4 to 5 heads fresh or dry dill weed � cup salt � cup vinegar (5%) 8 cups water and one or more of the following ingredients: 2 cloves garlic (optional) 2 dried red peppers (optional) 2 tsp. whole mixed pickling spices (optional) Procedure: Wash cucumbers. Cut <small>1/16</small>-inch slice off blossom end and discard. Leave � inch of stem attached. Place half of dill and spices on bottom of a clean, suitable container. Add cucumbers, remaining dill, and spices. Dissolve salt in vinegar and water and pour over cucumbers. Add suitable cover and weight. Store where temperature is between 70� and 75� F for about 3 to 4 weeks while fermenting. Temperatures of 55� to 65� F are acceptable, but the fermentation will take 5 to 6 weeks. Avoid temperatures above 80� F, or pickles will become too soft during fermentation. Fermenting pickles cure slowly. Check the container several times a week and promptly remove surface scum or mold. Caution: If the pickles become soft, slimy, or develop a disagreeable odor, discard them. Fully fermented pickles may be stored in their original containers for about 4 to 6 months, provided they are refrigerated and surface scum and molds are removed regularly. Canning fully fermented pickles is a better way to store them. To can them, pour the brine into a pan, heat slowly to a boil, and simmer 5 minutes. Filter brine through paper coffee filters to reduce cloudiness, if desired. Fill jar with pickles and hot brine, leaving a �-inch headspace. Adjust lids and process as below, or use the low-temperature pasteurization treatment described previously. Recommended Process (Dill Pickles) Boiling Water Bath <table> <tbody><tr><td>Pints</td><td>15 minutes</td></tr> <tr><td>Quarts</td><td>20 minutes</td></tr></tbody></table> Refrigerator Dills, Whole Pack 6 lbs. of 3- to 4-inch pickling cucumbers 18 to 24 large heads of fresh dill weed or � cup dill seeds 1� gals. water � cup canning or pickling salt 2 to 3 cloves garlic, peeled and sliced 6 Tbsp. mixed pickling spices Yield: About 4 to 5 quarts Procedure: Wash cucumbers. Cut <small>1/16</small>-inch slice from blossom end and discard. Leave � inch of stem attached. Place cucumbers in a suitable 3-gallon container. Add dill. Combine water, salt, garlic, and pickling spices. Bring to a boil. Cool and pour over cucumbers in container. Add a suitable cover and weight. Keep at room temperature for 1 week. Then fill jars with pickles and brine. Seal and store in a refrigerator. Pickles may be eaten after 3 days and should be consumed within 2 months. Sweet Gherkin Pickles 7 lbs. cucumbers (1� inch or less) � cup canning or pickling salt 8 cups sugar 6 cups vinegar (5%) � tsp. turmeric 2 tsp. celery seeds 2 tsp. whole mixed pickling spice 2 cinnamon sticks � tsp. fennel (optional) 2 tsp. vanilla (optional) Yield: 6 to 7 pints Procedure: Wash cucumbers. Cut 1/16-inch slice off blossom end and discard, but leave � inch of stem attached. Place cucumbers in large container and cover with boiling water. Six to 8 hours later, and on the second day, drain and cover with fresh boiling water. On the third day, drain and prick cucumbers with a table fork. Combine and bring to boil 3 cups vinegar, 3 cups sugar, turmeric, and spices. Pour over cucumbers. Six to 8 hours later, drain and save the pickling syrup. Add another 2 cups each of sugar and vinegar and reheat to boil. Pour over pickles. On the fourth day, drain and save syrup. Add another 2 cups sugar and 1 cup vinegar. Heat to boil and pour over pickles. Drain and save pickling syrup 6 to 8 hours later. Add 1 cup sugar and 2 tsp. vanilla and heat to boil. Fill sterile pint jars* with pickles and cover with hot syrup, leaving a �-inch headspace. Adjust lids and process as below, or use the low-temperature pasteurization treatment described previously. *<small>To sterilize empty jars, put them right side up on the rack in a boiling water canner. Fill the canner and jars with hot (not boiling) water to 1 inch above the tops of the jars. Boil 11 minutes. Remove and drain hot sterilized jars one at a time. </small> Recommended Process (Sweet Gherkin Pickles) Boiling Water Bath <table> <tbody><tr><td>Pints</td><td>10 minutes</td></tr></tbody></table> 14-Day Sweet Pickles Can be canned whole, in strips, or in slices. 4 lbs. of 2- to 5-inch pickling cucumbers (if packed whole, use cucumbers of uniform size) � cup canning or pickling salt (separated into � cups, one for each of the 1st, 3rd, and 5th days) 2 tsp. celery seed 2 Tbsp. mixed pickling spices 5� cups sugar 4 cups vinegar (5%) Yield: About 5 to 9 pints Procedure: Wash cucumbers. Cut <small>1/16</small>-inch slice off blossom end and discard, but leave � inch of stem attached. Place whole cucumbers in suitable 1-gallon container. Add � cup salt to 2 quarts water and bring to a boil. Pour over cucumbers. Add suitable cover and weight. Place clean towel over container and keep the temperature at about 70� F. On the third and fifth days, drain salt water and discard. Rinse cucumbers. If any scum has formed, remove it and scald cover and weight. Return cucumbers to container. Add � cup salt to 2 quarts fresh water and boil. Pour over cucumbers. Replace cover and weight, and re-cover with clean towel. On the seventh day, drain salt water and discard. Rinse cucumbers and re-scald containers, covers, and weight. Cut cucumbers into slices or strips, if desired, and return to container. Place celery seed and pickling spices in small cheesecloth bag. Combine 2 cups sugar and 4 cups vinegar in a saucepan. Add spice bag, bring to a boil, and pour pickling solution over cucumbers. Add cover and weight, and re-cover with clean towel. On each of the next six days, drain syrup and spice bag and save. Add � cup sugar each day and bring to a boil in a saucepan. Remove cucumbers and rinse. Scald container, cover, and weight daily. Return cucumbers to container, add boiled syrup, spice bag, cover, weight, and re-cover with towel. On the fourteenth day, drain syrup into saucepan. Fill jars leaving a �-inch headspace. Add � cup sugar to syrup and bring to boil. Remove spice bag. Pour hot syrup over cucumbers, leaving a �-inch headspace. Adjust lids and process as recommended or use the low-temperature pasteurization treatment described previously. Recommended Process (14-Day Sweet Pickles) Boiling Water Bath Pints 10 minutes Quarts 15 minutes </pre> Sauerkraut 25 lbs. cabbage � cup canning or pickling salt Quality: For the best sauerkraut, use firm heads of fresh cabbage. Shred cabbage and start kraut between 24 and 48 hours after harvest. Yield: About 9 quarts Procedure: Work with about 5 pounds of cabbage at a time. Discard outer leaves. Rinse heads under cold running water and drain. Cut heads in quarters and remove cores. Shred or slice to a thickness of a quarter. Put cabbage in a suitable fermentation container and add 3 tablespoons of salt. Mix thoroughly, using clean hands. Pack firmly until salt draws juices from cabbage. Repeat shredding, salting, and packing until all cabbage is in the container. Be sure it is deep enough so that its rim is at least 4 or 5 inches above the cabbage. If juice does not cover cabbage, add boiled and cooled brine (1� tablespoons of salt per quart of water). Add plate and weights, cover container with a clean bath towel. Store at 70� to 75� F while fermenting. At temperatures between 70� and 75� F, kraut will be fully fermented in about 3 to 4 weeks; at 60� to 65� F, fermentation may take 5 to 6 weeks. At temperatures lower than 60� F, kraut may not ferment. Above 75� F, kraut may become soft. If you weigh the cabbage down with a brine-filled bag, do not disturb the crock until normal fermentation is completed (when bubbling ceases). If you use jars as weights, you will have to check the kraut 2 to 3 times each week and remove scum if it forms. Fully fermented kraut may be kept tightly covered in the refrigerator for several months or it may be canned as follows: Hot pack: Bring kraut and liquid slowly to a boil in a large kettle, stirring frequently. Remove from heat and fill jars rather firmly with kraut and juices, leaving a �-inch headspace. Raw pack: Fill jars firmly with kraut and cover with juices, leaving a �-inch headspace. Adjust lids and process. Recommended Process (Sauerkraut) Boiling Water Bath

CJT | 07-14-2009 01:57 PM
Re: Brine Pickle help please. Hmmm... I'm not sure Imacannin. I haven't done so, I usually have enough for my crock in a few days time as I have a smaller crock. A couple gallons of pickles is more than enough for us for a whole year, LOL

Andy9999 | 07-14-2009 05:38 PM
Re: Brine Pickle help please. water,salt,garlic,dill-seeds with flower part ,horseradish , cucumbers, salt =pickling salt,you mix approx 2-2,5 tablespoons of salt for liter of water,no vinegar added at all,good to eat after 7 days- (half done)

still afloat | 07-14-2009 11:24 PM
Re: Brine Pickle help please. Not having a crock , can I use a food grade plastic container to do it in ?

Andy9999 | 07-14-2009 11:39 PM
Re: Brine Pickle help please. Quote:
Originally Posted by still afloat (Post 1817849) Not having a crock , can I use a food grade plastic container to do it in ?
sure, stainless steel pot is OK too

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