Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)
- Survival Prep (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=141)
- - Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=167682)

money matters | 08-18-2007 12:39 AM
Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency Saw a member's request for info. Posted similar info @ 3 yrs ago. Might be in archives? Anyway, we'll look at the cheapest entry level and most desirable. My comments & opinions, have been reloading since 8th grade, 1967. Lee Engineering anniversary kit is best value for beginner on a budget. About $75 on internet/mail order purchase. Allows loading metallic Rifle & Pistol brass cases. YOU CANNOT RELOAD ALUMINUM BLAZER EMPTIES, DON'T TRY! The Lee kit includes: Press ctg case holder set, powder measure, priming tool, loading manual, loader's scale (calibrated for "grains") Lee tools aren't fancy, but the powder measure is reportedly very accurate and their tools work very well. You will need a set of cartridge dies for each ctg you reload, although 38sp/.357mag, .44sp/44mag, 45colt/454Casull share the same die set. RCBS deluxe Rockchucker set is cast iron vs aluminum, more durable costs about $250, has most of the same gear. The Lee-Loader is a truly inexpensive loading tool, all self-contained, costs maybe $25; you need one for every caliber. Uses a powder dipper. If you want to be able to salvage empty brass, aren't concerned with speed of production or variable charge weights; these work. Many tens of thousands sold. Progressive reloaders enable very fast production of accurate ammunition. More tailored to pistol and small rifle cases, the Dillon 550 is a super tool for producing several hundred rounds per hour. You need a different variety of accessories for this tool, but for about $400 if you want an ammo factory, it works. There are small and large primer sizes, for rifle and pistol; also magnum primers for a more intense priming charge. Primers cost about $2.50 per 100. Bullets can be cast lead, swaged lead, or jacketed. Bullets range from $5 per 100 for .38sp cast bullets to $100 per 20 for big game rifles. Most jacketed bullets cost about $20 per 100 these days. There are a great variety of smokeless powders. These are propellants, not explosives. They burn to create pressure upon ignition, the burning rate determines the pressure curve and suitability for what cartridge. STUDY A RELOADING MANUAL BEFORE YOU BUY POWDER. You can use some powders in a wide range of cartridges, this is a nice benefit. There are 7000 grains of powder in one pound. A pistol load might specify 3.5 grains. This means a pound of powder could yield 2000 loaded rounds. Powder costs about $20 per pound. Handloading is the assembly of ammunition, maybe from new, empty brass cases. Reloading is the use of previously fired cases. MEC Engineering makes a very affordable shotgun shell reloader. I own 2 but hardly use them. I don't care much about shooting shotguns. If I can't buy more shells, I can reload my hulls. You need shotshell primers, plastic wads, and shot to reload shells. Pretty easy, no big whoop. There are many, many specialized tools you can purchase to produce superbly accurate ammunition for accurized rifles. Not much point with handguns, but good habits carryover and quality ammunition is as easy to produce as mediocre, so you always strive for quality. About the most desirable die sets are by Forster and Redding. RCBS, Hornady, Lee, and Lyman are also very good. If you can find C-H brand, they are fine. Wilson makes benchrest tools, but no 7/8x14 size dies. Mostly, we are talking 7/8ths gear here because the ability to interchange dies and other gear mandates their use. Ebay is a good source for dies, as is your gunshop and pawnbroker. Used dies can be a good value at $10-$15 per set. Carbide lined sizing dies are nice for pistol reloading as they negate the need to lubricate cases. New diesets cost about $30 with carbides about $40. (look for used ones). You will need a shellholder for each ctg you load, some ctgs use the same size holder, ie 45acp, .308, 30-06, 243, 270win; most magnum rifle shells use the same holder etc. While on the subject of case lube (lg rifles), I use PAM vegetable spray which is cheaper than aerosol case lubes and works great. It can easily cost $500-$1000 to setup to reload a variety of ctgs and lay in the necessary supplies. Primers are cheapest when bought by the 1000 or 5000 lot; Powder in 5 or 8lb jugs, Bullets in bulk supply of 500. If you've kept your spent cases, and they're brass, you have 1/2 of the cost met already. You can load 1000 45acp with cast bullets for about $140; that is 20 boxes of 50. A 200 or 230 gr cast bullet will be superbly accurate, easy to shoot and still hit like a ton of bricks. If you get into casting your own bullets, it gets even cheaper. Buy a mold, a bucket of used wheelweights and go to town. Then your 1000rds cost you about $60. Only by handloading can you tailormake your ammunition to your own goals. Reloading gear is a great survival skill and valuable to your community. Primers and smokeless powders will store well for 15 or more years if you store them in a comfortable, non-humid environment. They are great barter items to have. Now is a great time to store your components as loaded ammunition. Properly loaded and stored ammunition will last 50 or more years.

shades2 | 08-18-2007 05:51 AM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency What gear is better for reloading? Lee, Dillon or something else? I have looked around on-line and I like the Dillon designs myself, but they are significantly more expensive than Lee.

KASHMAN02 | 08-18-2007 10:13 AM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency Quote:
Originally Posted by shades2 (Post 700683) What gear is better for reloading? Lee, Dillon or something else? I have looked around on-line and I like the Dillon designs myself, but they are significantly more expensive than Lee.
Dillons are mighty nice but pricey, I have an RCBS AMMOMASTER , a bit slower than Dillon but Ive had it long time and plenty reliable and cheaper.

money matters | 08-18-2007 12:31 PM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency A Dillon is pretty versatile, can be used as a single-stage, semi-progressively, or fully-progressively; but no free lunches... What is "the best" gear? Lee Loaders (the hand tool) are pretty slow, but work and are very decent value for a piece of gear you only occasionally use. Lee gear & dies are very good products, just aluminum bodied rather than cast iron. The Lee autoprime tool is a favorite of many benchrest reloaders because they work really well. The Lyman 310 tool is another portable reloading tool set. Pretty expensive these days, but compact and portable. Add a few Lee dippers, some extra deprime pins, and you are set. Kind of colllectible these days. Handy for a bugout bag scenario. A single-stage or turret press is about the most versatile loading tool you can own. The RCBS Rockchucker is the de-facto industry standard, but I like the Redding ultra-mag for forming magnum rifle cases. You really want to be sure the press you buy will interchange the common shellholder design and routes the spent priming residue through the ram body. Hornady has some very good tools that are Lock-n-load; Forster also uses a quick change die setup. A used press is generally a pretty good deal, unless the ram moves sloppily in the press body. Redding offers many innovative products. Their competition shellholder sets allow more precision in cartridge case dimensioning which allows you to more closely size brass actual headspace dimensions. A good powder measure is a great asset for production. I have used Redding BR (benchrest) measures and found RCBS Uniflow measures work better, more consistently when modified with a powder baffle in the reservoir. I also like the mic adjustment option and have a lg and small clinder measure setup. I find that once the measure is set, it doesn't vary. Powder measurment is the most critical aspect of loading. A good measure is only as good as your scale and you WILL benefit from owning a scale check-weight set. I set my scale to -0- with checkweights as close to the charge I am throwing as possible, Everytime I begin loading. I use both RCBS 505 and 1010 scales. For the $15 or so it costs to buy a Lee autoprime and a shellholder I recommend the tool over using your press to seat primers. Seating by feel is a feedback thing and lets you feel the primer pocket dimension. A tight fit is better than loose. A massive ram seating your primers will rob you of tactile feedback on this aspect of the process. I like the RCBS Precision Mic for accuracy work. Helps analyze your chamber dimensions and set the sizing dimensions for your loading dies. Critical info if you shoot longrange or for precision groups. Primers are potentially explosive. Never remove them from their cartons until use, and NEVER store them loose in a jar! I saw a guy shake a mayonaise jar half full of primers once, and I was amazed he didn't kill us both. IF you aren't a "detail oriented person", reloading is likely not a skill you will master. You can do harm to yourself and others if you are a carefree sort of free spirit who can't grasp the need to follow procedures. Easy to blow up a valuable weapon, or yourself by a moments inattention. This is not Rocket Science, but adding 10 grains more powder when you should have added 1 grain can ruin your day when you discharge that weapon with the overloaded ammunition. I am of the opinion that if we see ammunition prices continuing to rise, dealers will stock less variety and likely less inventory. Handloading is an essential skill to master if you value your weapons. Midway, Mid-South Shooters, Natchez Supply, Sinclair Intl, Russ Hayden, Bruno Shooters Supply, Wideners and Graf & Sons are a few discount suppliers you can google and find good gear and prices. Some are benchrester supply shops, and have special tools. RCBS, Lee Engineering, Redding, Forster, Lyman, Hornady, C-H Tools are the main loading tool producers. Sierra, Hornady, Barnes, Nosler, Berger, Speer, are pretty much the primary bulletmakers. Alliant, Hogdon, Winchester, Accurate Arms, Norma, and Vitavourhi are the main powder makers/sellers. Remington, Winchester, Norma, Nosler, Starline, and Lapua are the primary brass makers. Remington, Winchester, CCI-Federal are the primary primer makers. Most bullet and tool makers publish a loading manual. I like the Barnes manual best, with Hornady and Sierra also as favorites. Lyman has maybe more information available than any toolmaker, since they have over 100 yrs in business. Lyman's Cast Bullet Manual is superb. Shop Midway for specials and descriptions; they sell almost everything. Your local discount gunshop (not sportsman's warehouse) likely has a good deal on the RCBS Deluxe Rockchucker kit. Save yourself the freight bill and buy that one local; 50 or 60 lbs can be expensive to ship. In fact, be aware that hazardous materials (hazmat) delivery fees apply to primers and maybe gunpowder. What this means is buy a whole bunch when you buy or get soaked with these fees. Your gunshop also pays these fees. If you buy cartons of primers (1000) and bulk jugs of powder locally, you are likely getting a fairly decent price break. If you are ordering cases (5000) of primers, and multiple jugs of powder, then the hazmat fees are small change and you should buy in bulk. Most reloading components are Lot Numbered. Powders and primers can have pressur characterisics that vary by production lots, so be aware and try not to mix lot #s. Bullets are also sometimes lot numbered. Unless made on the same machine, bullets of the same design can vary dimensionally. Always much to consider when handloading.

money matters | 08-18-2007 10:11 PM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency In consideration of reloading brass, you need to be certain the ammunition you buy is all BOXER Primed. Much foreign military ammunition is Berdan Primed. For practical purposes, reloading berdan primed cases is very tedious work, and the primers are hardly available. Standard depriming tools will not work on berdan primed ctg cases. One of the most useful tools you can own, if you intend to reload crimped in Military Primers, is a Lee universal derpriming die. This die removes the most stubborn primers and does not size your case in any way. A great help and it beats replacing deprime pins regularly. I have never seen a berdan primed .223; but berdan primed .308s are very common among surplus ammunition. If you are going to reload, pay extra and get Boxer primed ammunition.

pot_dragon | 08-19-2007 05:12 AM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency http://www.primitivearcher.com The reload kits are in the trees and the ground.....

money matters | 08-19-2007 02:11 PM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency Ever napped flint and straightened cedar shafts to make arrows? Lots of good fletching materials out there on the forest floor too! Yesterday, I loaded about 800 rounds of match grade .223 ammunition on a single stage press. Takes longer than on a progressive but not all that much. Actually I was producing about 200 rds per hour, not bad; but I had the brass already primed and resized. I was using LC military brass which requires removal of primer pocket crimp with a special tool. Rather than jack with setting up the 550 for small primers, and hassling with primer pockets that hadn't quite gone right; I do this manually. If you are going to reload for semi-auto rifles you might consider using a Small Base die set. These resize brass to dimensions tighter than normal dies. This assures you of proper chambering in any weapon. In my experience, rifles with shorter oal chmbers will deliver finer accuracy. I don't want a sloppy chamber, so I like small base sizing dies. About the best tool for decrimping military primer pockets is made by Dillon. It is set up for speed processing of cases. There is also a die for this chore reportedly incorporated in the Dillon 650 loader, which I don't have... Anyway, I decrimp the case, remove it, and prime it on the Lee Autoprime. One fast motion takes about 15 seconds, working the decrimp tool with my left hand and priming with my right. I like the Redding Full Length neck bushing size die for .223, although I started out with the SB die set 15yrs ago. Many new, innovative tools have come into the market, driven by the quest for accuracy. Redding makes these dies in full length and neck only sizing configurations, they are superb tools and enable you to use seating tension in lieu of a crimp. I run the primed brass through this die. Once all brass has gone through the Redding die, I can charge the case and seat the bullet. I've owned RCBS and Redding Competition die sets with micrometer bullet seaters and mic adj sizing dies. I now prefer Forster Competition seating dies. It takes me about 10 seconds to charge a case, grab a bullet, place the readied case etc in the shell holder and pull the handle. It is wearying, repetitive work, but goes fairly fast. The RCBS UniFlow measure holds a zero better than the Redding Benchrest measure I used to have. Bullets are seated to max length possible and still enable magazine functions. I load the magazines to be sure. Crimped military brass is stronger and thicker, therefore more pressure tolerant and will generate more pressure safely than commercial brass. With primer crimp intact, you know for sure it is once-fired. After its second firing, it can be reloaded with ease on a progressive loader and should also be trimmed for uniformity. My AR-15s all have 6.5-8 twist barrels and are optimized for heavier bullets. I'm loading 75 grain hornady bullets and can load up to 90 grain bullets, although firing these is a single load proposition. A 75 grain match bullet loaded in .223 Remington will deliver spectacular accuracy at up to 600yds and with 2750+fps velocity exhibit great power upon impact. Hornady and Sierra bullets incorporate extra thick bullet jackets and so are fit for even big game hunting if no other weapon was available. With a 90 grain bullet, you are really into big game taking realm. Match grade ammunition costs anywhere from $1 to $1.50 per round. I figure it cost me about $.020 to load my own. By being able to select the components and bullet I want, I have made ammunition unavailable except from a custom loading house. That runs into real money! One lb of powder will load almost 300 rounds of my ammunition. A 5lb jug costs me $90. Components cost $110 to load 600 rds of match grade ammunition. Similar match grade ammunition costs $600-$800 per thousand rounds at current midway prices. Nice to know that you inspected and did your best with every round along the way. Much of what contributes to Best Performance is "between your ears". I shoot better knowing that my ammunition was scrutinized every step of the way and is the best I can make it.

Unclad Lad | 08-19-2007 05:17 PM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency Quote:
YOU CANNOT RELOAD ALUMINUM BLAZER EMPTIES, DON'T TRY! The Lee kit includes:
You should not reload them. That doesn't mean you cannot. The aluminum (and steel, for a lot of ComBloc) use berdan primers. Berdan primers can be obtained, as well as depriming dies. It might make sense if berdan is what you have around, and the versatility might help you. But having it is way far down on the list of wants. There was a fellow on the Makarov Yahoogroups site, name of Mehdi. Iranian, and a fan of the 9X18. Brass was a treat for him--almost all of his reloads were steel-cased. So it is possible, but hopefully it'll never come to that.

Crockett | 08-19-2007 07:16 PM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency It is more than just berdan primers. No die manufacturer makes dies to resize aluminum Blazer cases. The aluminum cases would require different die dimensions than used for standard brass cases.

money matters | 08-19-2007 07:51 PM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency There is no such thing as a "deprime die" for berdan primers. Berdan primers have two tiny flash holes with a bridge of metal between them. RCBS makes a levering, prying tool that works externally, but no dies. You can buy berdan primers. I have some. They are difficult to find. Sure, there is such a thing as "survival & scrounger" reloading. I've read you can take strike anywhere matches and use the thermolate of mercury (?) as priming compound after you reform the priming cap with a flat punch and then reassemble the anvil, BUT.... Just buy a few bricks of primers and store them correctly. Like the guy who'd rather make his own arrows, don't take a bow to a gunfight. Another very nice tool to have is a bullet puller. The kinetic pullers are very slow, but decent. The collet pullers work but can damage the bullet jacket. Being able to scrounge gunpowder from found ammunition might be an option if you have a bullet puller. They are sure nice if you make a mistake and want to verify a powder charge or bullet weight.

Darkside | 08-20-2007 09:19 AM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency Wow great information here, I am going to have to finish reading this later, only read the first part. What are some good suppliers you can share for getting bullets/powders/primer etc... ? do you know anything about reloading 22 hornet ammunition, are the supplies or equipment for it expensive? I have been shooting 22 hornet most lately and its quite expensive ammunition probably because of how limited use they get

Bushpilot | 08-20-2007 11:46 AM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency Loading for the 22 hornet is just like loading for any other caliber, it requires cases, primers, powder, and bullets. Small caliber rifle rounds can be easily reloaded on any of the smaller inexpensive presses. I just purchased a Lee turret press with hornet dies, a few empty brass, 300 primers, and some other misc stuff for $80. The dies alone are worth $25. Keep your eyes and ears open, I run across alot of used loading equipment for sale by just keeping my ears open. BP

Abouthadit | 08-20-2007 01:51 PM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushpilot (Post 702786) Loading for the 22 hornet is just like loading for any other caliber, it requires cases, primers, powder, and bullets. Small caliber rifle rounds can be easily reloaded on any of the smaller inexpensive presses. I just purchased a Lee turret press with hornet dies, a few empty brass, 300 primers, and some other misc stuff for $80. The dies alone are worth $25. Keep your eyes and ears open, I run across alot of used loading equipment for sale by just keeping my ears open. BP
How does one go about making sure that used equipment is high quality?

Horn | 08-20-2007 02:02 PM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency Even though I'm sure you'd end up on a different list somewhere if you purchase black powder, I'm thinking I'm soon to be in the market for this stuff.

Bushpilot | 08-20-2007 04:03 PM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency As long as there is no rust on the equipment it should be fine. I've got some reloading equipment that was my grandfathers and I still reload with it . On the reloading dies look inside them for rust. BP

Abouthadit | 08-20-2007 04:17 PM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushpilot (Post 703130) As long as there is no rust on the equipment it should be fine. I've got some reloading equipment that was my grandfathers and I still reload with it . On the reloading dies look inside them for rust. BP
Thanks... rust = bad.... neat part about your granddad's reloader. That's cool, keeping it in the family. Great avatar BTW.

money matters | 08-20-2007 04:38 PM
Re: Reloading Gear for self-sufficiency The first thing to buy if you want to investigate reloading is a good loading manual; Sierra or Hornady, maybe Lee's book. Study the processes and equipment, look at the "recipes". If you study up on which bullets you want to use, and look at which powders are common to the cartridges you want to load; you can save money by standardizing your powders. Rust is not the kiss of death, but it leads to pitting, and that will ruin a die. Rust on a press is no big deal, just clean it off with a wire wheel. If I were going to reload for one cartridge, a Lee Loader and a scale would enable many accurate loads. The Lee Loader is very much like the Super Precision Wilson hand die sets the benchrest guys use. A powder trickler is also handy to have, and a tool to deburr cartridge cases so bullets seat smoothly. All you need after that is a rubber mallet and you are set! Buy primers, powder and some bullets and go to it. You might find a good deal on gear and dies at your local pawnbroker, full-service gunshop, or even on craigslist.com. $10 per die set and $25+ for a press is a decent yardstick when buying used gear. Don't expect a top flite press that cheap, they don't really depreciate, but you will find older RCBS specials etc that cheap if you look. You could also agree to load for your friends. Let them buy a die set and components; you could load their empties for in exchange for other services.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:14 AM. |

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright = None use it and Link to GIM