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- - How to Prep in the City. (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=231495)

Goald | 02-02-2008 05:18 PM
How to Prep in the City. I thought I'd create a thread where insights and information can be shared about how to best prepare for WTSHTF for those living in urban areas. Experienced posters and prep people are embraced here for fresh perspectives about how urban dwellers can do better than most. I shall be living in the S.F bay soonish and it could be a difficult place to weather the storm. And perhaps earthquakes too. I 4 1 shall be renting- somewhere safe, cheap as can be and will look to get an alarm on the place. Hopefully somewhere with its own backyard. I've got a tough dog too and will put generous signs up for those thinking the wrong things, and f*** it I might even get another dog. I really don't want to get into it, but no guns for me. I'd rather use a sword and take any other security steps that I can. I'm thinking of using a 'safe' storage company and having a unit that I pay for with cash. Perhaps keeping an actual safe there too with some PM's. I want to buy many kilos of salt, sugar and honey. I look to hoard pasta and rice. Sanyo Eneloop rechargeable batteries, a shake light torch found here- http://www.modernoutpost.com/gear/de...kelight60.html I will spend some funds on preps perhaps from http://beprepared.com/ - unless someone strongly recommends that I look elsewhere. A Katadyn water filter is a must also. I will have a car which is comfortable with good MPG. This is something I want to get kitted out very well. First aid kit is a must. My intention is for this thread to be a hub of different information and wisdom that has been accumulated here at GIM, even if that involves posting links to other threads. Especially as it may relate to those living in areas such as this. Please join in.

cortez | 02-02-2008 05:22 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. leave the city

Goald | 02-02-2008 05:24 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. In time that will be possible, but for at least a year- it's not going to happen.

rodin | 02-02-2008 05:25 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. I would get out of cities. If SHTF they could very quickly become intolerable You need walking distance access to land to get away/hide/forage Mountain bike might be good - beats pursuit by foot most terrain have a survival rucksack packed ready to go - vehicle fuelled in case that's an option - and leave at first sign of trouble - you can always return if false alarm. If you are stuck in a concrete jungle have food and water supplies stored and keep it your secret. Separate from your normal kitchen store in case your house gets ransacked. Be interesting to see what others say. JMO

cortez | 02-02-2008 05:27 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. if shit gets bad in a city what guarentee do you have that you'll be at home or near your home. especially like a place like S.F. earthquake or the sh** totally gettin bad you maybe on the freeway or grocery store. you'll need to protect yourself from hoards of people. i dont think a sword will cut it.

Goald | 02-02-2008 05:30 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Thanks Rodin. If all this is really going to happen i.e TS, I hope the signs before hand will be clear to flee if necessary. I could always buy a little land and I guess if it is 5/6 hours away it is o.k if it is for these purposes. Of course I'd have a whole host of things to learn and get in place but I'd be better off than most- having actually somewhere to go.

Goald | 02-02-2008 05:32 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. "I dont think a sword will cut it." Wanna bet? Just kidding. Well I'm not shooting anyone, that's how roll.

cortez | 02-02-2008 05:39 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. certainly one or two people, but a mob???

Goald | 02-02-2008 05:43 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. This thread is not about guns. I respect your wish to prep with them; in return I ask that you respect my wish to do otherwise. I don't wish for this thread to become a gun debate- get me?

cortez | 02-02-2008 05:49 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. i dont own any guns or feel the need to use them either. i was just pointing out the fact that in a city the numbers are the numbers. not even all that concerned about TSHTF. i live near a natural water shed , unlimited food supply and in a col de sac with natural barriers around. some things cant be taught. if things do go bad the city is the worst place to be, simply because of the amount of people and the fact that everything needs to be purchased. how you gonna get to the sierra mt. when 10 million other people may be drivin on hwy 50 east also?

Goald | 02-02-2008 05:53 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Well, I believe I have greater foresight than most and so hope to be outta there before others- especially if I organize somewhere to go to. How many people are mentally prepared to just drop what they have and leave? And leave for where exactly?

cortez | 02-02-2008 05:57 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. exactly. why not get out now? for the reasons that i have heard it discussed on this forum there may not be much warning. natural disaster or katrina like event may bring things down real fast. i respect your view on the guns but if you plan to stay in the city it maybe that you will have to seriously defend yourself.

DogFarm | 02-02-2008 05:59 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. There is a very good book out there that goes step through step what would happen to SF if a 7+ earthquake hits....not a place I would want to be. Regrettably I do not have the title but sure you can find it here from someone.

Goald | 02-02-2008 05:59 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. My wife is working there. That's where her family is. That simple.

Silverstone | 02-02-2008 06:29 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Really it all boils down to if you plan on staying put: 1) water source, 2) food source, 3) protection, 4) heat, 5) first aid. How long can you hold up meeting the above 5? Do you have a well and handpump? Or do you have to stockpile water? Yes, stockpile food, medicine/herbs. Do you have protection? How are you going to heat/light your home if no utilities? And if you have to leave, or want too, what can you fit in a backpack? What is your escape route, and what is your destination? And how will you be traveling? Remember, in a disaster, everyone will have the same plans of getting out at about the same time, and then the big, what if they do to you what they did to the Katrina people? In this case, a backpack with essentials would come in handy, and maybe an inflatable raft, bike. You may have to walk out, in cognitio to get around check points. And it may not be that simple to sneak out (any riverways close by, train tracks with freight trains you can hop?) Know where your switching yards are...do it at night (the caboose guys do check). After the caboose guy does his checks, he'll get back on, watch, as soon as he does, you hop the train. (P.S. I know the drill used to hop them as kids for free ride into town). The railway might be one way to sneak out of a situation like Katrina. Otherwise, stock up and stay put until you have time to think about your next move, don't do anything rash or hasty.

Maddie | 02-02-2008 07:37 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Keep a bike (maybe a folding one if your vehicle won't hold a regular bike) in your vehicle to help you get home if something happens while you're at work. Traffic is beyond awful where I live. The mayor of our city once told a newspaper reporter that the city doesn't even have an evacuation plan because it simply wouldn't be possible. I keep a folding bike in the back of my truck. I live less than 8 miles from work, so I could walk if I had to, but a bike is a lot faster. Keep a good bug-out bag in your vehicle, too. I agree with you that a good med kit is a necessity. Mine is more of a trauma kit than a regular first aid kit. Water is the biggest concern, of course. I'd suggest a Berkey, the newer black filter type. You can't get better than that! And a small camping size water purifier for your bug-out bag. You might want to learn how to distill water, too, just in case you get desperate enough to haul some of that bay water home! :D Obviously, you want plenty of water containers! Beprepared.com is a great place to purchase from. Very nice people and fast delivery. If something becomes unexpectedly backordered (which I only remember happening once), they call. Remember to mention to the delivery person that you're buying the stuff for a Boy Scout camp-out or a hunting club or something (something that implies the stuff will not be kept in your home). Space heater and kerosene can handle emergency heating for a while. Kerosene keeps well, and if you have an outdoor storage area to keep it in, you can store a year's supply pretty easily. Don't forget cooking fuel, lanterns, cleaning supplies, etc. If you don't have guns, at least get body armor. I don't know what your reasons are for not owning a gun, but it does place you at a very serious disadvantage, and you need to prepare for that. Perhaps you can install bullet and blast-resistant window film (or have it on standby to install if things get so bad you don't care what your apartment manager says) http://www.nationalmeditation.org/page24.htm. If not, at least have materials stored to barricade your windows, if necessary. If you don't have a lot of storage space, buy empty sandbags that you can fill later. I didn't used to think that stuff like this was a priority until Katrina hit New Orleans. SF wouldn't likely be as bad as someplace like New Orleans, but who knows anymore... Get to know your neighbors! The communities (those that weren't flooded!) that weathered Katrina best were the ones that pulled together and organized themselves.

RaccoonRiverRadical | 02-02-2008 08:00 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFarm (Post 949698) There is a very good book out there that goes step through step what would happen to SF if a 7+ earthquake hits....not a place I would want to be. Regrettably I do not have the title but sure you can find it here from someone.
A Dangerous Place by the late Marc Reisner. He also wrote the green classic Cadillac Desert.

CajunCoin | 02-03-2008 12:54 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Want to buy Kilos of Stuff? Hide Pm offsite at a Storage Facility? Goald, 1. Listen to the board, I lived thru KATRINA in Louisiana and you need to have a good back up plan. A. Reconnoiter the surrounding areas to see where you want to evacuate to-MAKE PRO AND CON LISTS. B. figure out where everybody in the city wants to go and then DO NOT go there, have cash and back up food for 2 to 4 weeks min. C. Carrying a sword is a bad idea since it is classified as a Dangerous Weapon! Forget noble ideas, be practical about defence and weapons, I use sporting Shotguns since Snakes and 4 legged creatures can pose serious risks in the US Outback. European sensibilities almost got my friend killed in NOLA during Katrina, if you must use a defensive weapon then I recommend whaling harpoonsbased upon the atlatl throwing system, it will split a tree open or learn Martial Arts to complement your Sword and dagger tech. 2. Store food as non perishable stuff but learn if you stay in a city without the basic life support systems, in two weeks it will get touch and go. LEAVE. Read Ferfal about the situation in Argentina, it has some practical advice about City Dwelling and hard times (economic). KATRINA WAS A MESS take my advice, you do not want to be left behind or in a Gov't run Camp. Have RV, will camp.

money matters | 02-03-2008 01:29 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Well, stubbornness is difficult to overcome. Likely you will see many people departing if this becomes a gradual systemic failure. You can decide what to do then, if you've kept your options open. An RV is a great suggestion, if your budget allows. A 10-15 yr old Cummins diesel with good carrying capacity and a small cargo trailer will enable you to cover 800 miles or so without refueling. They are fairly zippy in the mountains, just stay to the right. If you have the gear and supplies, you can adapt. A firearm as a last resort defense tool makes sense, unless you are not a citizen or have felony issues. SF is a very fragile environ. Very densely populated, water surrounded and minimal capacity for food production. If you can store what you need for a year, have enough water for several months of hunkering down, not to mention sanitation etc, you may have some hope. Wife's family doesn't have a Summer cabin or distant relatives you might ally with? Friends? Be nice to get away somewhere up toward Oregon. If you had an RV you could take your gear and "go camping" on BLM land or National Forest sites. People don't think much about RVers going camping. Best thing about an RV, if you need to move in a hurry, you can. Also great because you're self-contained and have means and eqpt you can adapt. A collection of flashlight batteries and a sword along with other minimal basics in a hostile environment will not be anything but a daily scraping by. If you have $3500 you can probably find a Class C gasoline powered motorhome on Ebay/Craigslist/Auto-Trader/Greensheet. A mechanic can change all the fluids and adjust the transmission if need be, replace all the filters and you should likely replace the tires if over 7 yrs old. You wind up with a cabin on wheels and a heavy duty genset, a propane refrigerator, water and toilet system, plus basic transport. Clean the carpets and upholstery, pack up and go. Maybe you keep it at a storage yard near where you want to be? The cities are just dying zones without power to run water and sanitation. Without trucks and transport, what will you eat? The time to go is well before everyone figures out that they need to go. Some people always leave sporting events before the end, to avoid the crush of the crowd and the traffic. They may not see the last final exciting seconds (if there are any), but they are on their way without any hassles. There will be no thrilling climax to the societal collapse that is coming. You sure don't want to wait around till everybody knows the game is over. Better ten weeks too early, than 10 minutes too late! God Bless and preserve your families.

Goald | 02-27-2008 06:16 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. There was some great information on this thread, thanks to Maddie et al for sharing. Pity Money Matters was banned. Enjoyed reading many of his posts.

electric-amish | 02-27-2008 08:35 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Goald In San Fransisco I would be prepared to take to the Bay or Sea in the event of Civil Unrest. Hard to get caught up in the middle of things from Miles away and surrounded by miles of water. Think inflatable in the trunk. Or a small boat you can keep moored and ready to bug out in. E-A

Goald | 02-27-2008 08:50 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. That's a good idea Amish. I have plans for getting a class B RV like a Roadtrek- that is a bug out vehicle right there. I figure they'll come down a lot in price in the next couple of years- might be able to get myself something real special for 30k$. A condo on wheels with good mpg, enough space to take all that is needed and it is something that can be enjoyed also. An inflatable boat may well have to be on board if I go ahead with this at some stage!

AMforPM | 02-27-2008 08:56 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. What may work depends so much on the situation. In a pandemic I expect people would be quarantined in place. In a martial law because the public has gotten too fed up situation going rural would be great if you could get past the government patrols, who in most such situations in history rob those they let through. So I think preparation for a variety of possibilities is good sense. I don't consider climate control that much of an issue in SF if you have warm clothing. It has a very mild climate. If locked down for a pandemic you would need food and water, and water purification, for a long time. The RV concept is great in a situation with enough warning and in which you are allowed to evacuate. If from your location you can get out without having to use bridges you are a lot safer and the mountain bike plus bug out bag is a great idea. Especially if you purchase someplace to bug out to, and stock it. People trying to walk out of NO after things got really bad were turned back at the bridges. Maybe you can get something nice for a vacation spot if you never need it for survival. As real estate crashes that becomes more possible. We may just see standard of living continue to fall and a lot of social change. In that case the water will likely stay on, at least part time, as it does in Argentina and Iraq, but plenty of stored food and water purification equipment would be provident. Even if food stays available it is going to be a lot more expensive, so that one is a win-win. We hope to weather the storm in place, but have a bug out option.

Goald | 02-27-2008 09:20 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Thanks AMforPM for your post. Problem also with S.F is that it is such a long drive to touch a border of another State. If I found land in Southern Oregon, that would probably be a 6hr plus drive. Driving to Nevada, say by Tahoe is a good few hours also. I just don't think it is good to buy land in CA with all it's problems. Property rights, taxes etc.. are all quite bad as I understand it. Keeping a cool head as I maneuver around trying to get preps in place is a must. Mentality is key. Keeping a cool head. Coming from a place of love inside opposed to the fear of an animal.. First priority will be to rent a secure private storage space and gather food preps and other survival gear. Just bought a beauty of a Swiss Army Knife y/day- checkit- Amazon.com: Victorinox Swiss Army Swiss Champ XLT: Sports &amp; Outdoors Amazon Anyway- talk about getting sidetracked- what sort of water items are essential. The Katadyn water filter is up there right. Just been having a look here- http://beprepared.com/category.asp_Q...A_name_E_Water I hope to get some land but am adamant it will be at the right time. This is when the prices for real estate decline further and land owners who are needy have to sell. Hopefully it won't be too late by then ;0)

momopanda | 02-27-2008 09:47 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. I have relatives on Long Island which is probably much worse logistically if anything ever happened in NYC and they needed to evacuate. Millions of people heading for the same 3 or 4 major arteries all funneling directly into ground zero pretty much. Hard to imagine the mayhem and destruction. But I wonder how many of them have even considered an evac route. My advice would be to have plenty of local/regional maps thrown in a bugout bag with the other stuff. Highlight numerous escape routes, and not the major ones that the majority will barrel headlong into. Drive the routes when you have time or cause to , and get to know them. I'd bet that less than half the people in big cities even own a map. And what Amish said. 99% of the people are going to hop into cars and start heading inland. Going against the flow and heading out on the water would probably make all the difference in many scenarios. I try to tell cousins in LI since 9/11 to have a marine exit and head for Conn. or RI even if evacuation was required over hunkering down. And what someone else said as to community. There are surely like minded people even in major cities and even neighboorhoods. Get to know them and become an asset to this community. Someone people will like and trust. This , ironically is what a certain poster you noted was banned was always saying. He preached it, literally, and yet he was one of the more antagonistic, abrasive people here, despite valuable insights. There is just no way people type some of the stuff they do here, and then magically turn away from their keyboard and morph into a pillar of community , loved and respected by all. We'll see in a week or so if he learns as well as he disseminates advice. It's one of those things, just like storing physical preps I guess, where you just have to start doing it, behaving as an asset to others, instead of thinking about it or preaching it. Never let others know your assets, but let them know you are an asset. Anyway, that's been my plan the last year or two now. Start doing it, all of it, from learning skills to storing needs, to networking and helping, doing everything, no matter what it is or how small, to be prepared. There's an old Chinese saying- "Three birds sat on a fence, and two decided to fly away. How many birds now sit on the fence?" The answer of course is three, because having made the decision but not yet done anything about it as far as we know, there they still sit. Good luck with your plans and preps. Panda out!

Codger | 02-28-2008 10:12 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. This has probably been posted here before, but her it is again. It's an evacuation report card for whatever that's worth. My city gets an F as does San Fran. Here's the link: http://www.highways.org/pdfs/evacuat...t_card2006.pdf

Conk | 02-28-2008 01:21 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. If the TS really HTF, then you'll need to stay healthy. Medical care may be hard to get. Sugar, pasta and rice will ensure a quick decline in your state of health. Read Weston Price's books if you have doubts. His is the definitive word on how sugars effect health. Spend you money on other things. At least buy no sugar and get whole wheat pasta and brown rice.

Unclad Lad | 02-29-2008 12:24 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Goald, I'm in a similar situation in a city not far from you. And I have to say that, unless you have a guaranteed boat ride out of there, your best bet will be to shelter in place. A panicky exodus will result in a traffic jam that will never unjam. Where in the Bay area will you be? Because that will dictate what you will be able to do. Frankly, your chances of fleeing ahead of the mob will be if you are North of the Golden Gate Bridge, in Marin County. You don't want to be on the Oakland side. Oh, and check the laws before you come out--I'm not certain, but I think swords are illegal in certain municipalities. Different cities have various stupid restrictions. Quote:
I'm thinking of using a 'safe' storage company and having a unit that I pay for with cash. Perhaps keeping an actual safe there too with some PM's.
When the grid goes down, the alarm system will too--and those storage people have no sense of duty in the face of a pillaging mob. Better to put a bunch of other stuff in there and keep your preps in your home and car. As one of the regulars here used to say, "If you don't have it in your hands, you DON'T HAVE IT!" Quote:
I 4 1 shall be renting- somewhere safe, cheap as can be and will look to get an alarm on the place.
You haven't seen housing prices out here, have you? People who work in SF have been known to buy houses in Sacramento, a 2 and a half hour commute each way, to save half a million dollars on a house. With record foreclosures the rental market is tightening up too. Are you absolutely set on the Bay? Even an hour away increases your escape/survival chances, and depending on your direction, decreases your earthquake exposure. Look at Fairfield or Vacaville, since your car gets good mpg. I noticed that nearly all of your sentences start with I or I'm. Is your wife on board with the program? Because if she isn't, and she talks to her friends and neighbors about your funny little hobby, you're likely to have a lot of uninvited guests on the Big Day. One of your more radicalized neighbors might become so alarmed as to report you to the police, "for the good of the community". Look, San Francisco is a world class city, and you will be exposed to foods and cultures and art and science like nowhere else on Earth. City life has rewards that our country cousins will never understand (though I'd still like a spot of land in the middle of nowhere one of these days). There is a price to living there, and I hope you have a good grasp of it before you settle there. City preparedness is possible, but it has a set of challenges that are unique. Your wife MUST be part of the plan--I cannot stress that enough--or you will fail.

Goald | 02-29-2008 06:58 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 988155) I noticed that nearly all of your sentences start with I or I'm. Is your wife on board with the program? Because if she isn't, and she talks to her friends and neighbors about your funny little hobby, you're likely to have a lot of uninvited guests on the Big Day. One of your more radicalized neighbors might become so alarmed as to report you to the police, "for the good of the community". Your wife MUST be part of the plan--I cannot stress that enough--or you will fail.
Hello Uncle :wink: Thanks for your post. I am very happy with the support and understanding from my partner. I feel so fortunate in this respect. She thinks it is a good idea to prep and is very open to almost all the plans I have. Further, she talks about how she wants to learn survival skills- (she introduced me to 'The Tracker'- Tom Brown)- and we both want to have some sort of self sustaining community around us. The most important is the family unit. But if we are able to live with like minded people and have good neighbors, it will make life much more enjoyable and enriching for all. It is of huge importance to be discreet and not attract a lot of attention. She is aware of this and in truth, it is something that we will both need to support each other with so we retain our privacy and not stand out. We have been living overseas for a few years now and have had plans to go back to the Bay for some time. She is very close to her family and has employment there so those are very strong reasons for us to be there for at least a year. We have spoken about moving from there perhaps to Canada so we'll have to see. And yes, it is likely to be the East bay. But you know what, I believe the following: 1/ There will be signs to leave that I'll be more sensitive to than others 2/ We'll be sufficiently prepped to take all we need to be that in an RV/ or otherwise and have maps to find back roads and shortcuts 3/ We'll have somewhere to go, with a food supply and water There will be a time to leave. Of that I am pretty sure. When it is only mentioned that there could be food shortages and people are off to the supermarket to hoard, queuing outside to get in- that will be only the calm before the storm. That will be when to leave in the other direction. Getting a little property with a water source, some trees, good fertile land is definitely on my agenda. But hey, it's pricey and I don't think I can find what I want in my budget close enough (say 4hrs max) from S.F bay. And do I really want to buy land in CA after all? No not really. Is there affordable land in Nevada with water- say near Tahoe? Oregon is like 500/ 600 miles away, how on earth am I going to prep there at the w/e if it takes so long to drive to? Anyway, these are just some of the things on my mind when in comes to getting a good bug out spot.

Twisted Avatar | 02-29-2008 08:12 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Great thread .........this is classic GIM and I thank everybody in advance. With me living in queens ......if it happens .......it is GAME OVER.... the Goons have plans is place where they will shut down EVERY bridge. and direct you to major arties that THEY designate. (I think I saw a dry run of this a while ago) So my mindset is to dig in with the best preps that I can at my location I live in a home area of queens where people actually have back yards so that is a major plus. I strongly concur with maddie they only way you are gonna make it in the city is if you get the cooperation of your neighbors cause that "john wanye" menatility will only get you run over by the hordes or rounded up by the shock troops. There is a reason why cave man survied......he lived in groups. Another gem I just picked up here:invest in getting lots of local maps(laminate if possible). That will be like Golden information in TSHTF Also Am Pm made mention when your form those community groups never disclose your assets BUT LET THEN KNOW YOU ARE A ASSET. that is very sound advice and will be the exact goal I will be shooting for. My hope is that this baby holds for another 2 years or so (highly unlikey) so I could get upstate 100 + miles from the city In the interim the development of the mindset is most important all the preps in the world wont make a lick of diffrence if you are freaking out. T

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Unclad Lad | 03-01-2008 02:50 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. East Bay? Yeesh. Bulletin: Avoid Vallejo--they make become the first decent-sized city in America to file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection. Tahoe isn't going to be your best choice in western Nevada--too close to Reno and a straight drive up the hill from Sacramento. Carson City area is better. I've got a place off the beaten path picked out, but as I don't own it yet I'm not sharing my research :wink: . If a 4-hour drive is a requirement, you aren't going to get out of California any way but by boat, so you might want to start looking for some properties. With the foreclosure rates and what will be a decline in land prices, you might find something. I wouldn't look farther south than Clear Lake--up there you start to get into the state and national forests, and rurality is possible. Maybe a cabin on a small lake that was bought as a second home or investment? As long as it is off the main thoroughfares--101 being the biggest up there--you should be missed by most of the horde.

wallew | 03-01-2008 12:02 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Goald, Let me make this simple and then I'll tell you why. U R SCREWED. My wife grew up in Oakland. We've lived for more than six years in the Bay area - San Francisco (Hunters Point), Oakland and Fremont. It's been about ten(ish) years ago, maybe a little longer and one day, just before rush hour started, BART shut down. Stem to stern. It took a buddy of mine more than TEN HOURS to get home and he worked in SF and lived across the bay in Oakland, near us. The traffic was COMPLETELY jammed. About 1/2 mile per hour for more than six hours and then finally started shaking loose around midnight (still took him four more hours to get home). And this was strictly RUSH HOUR. Not a 'OH CRAP, GOTTA BUG OUT' type of thing. So, if you gotta go, you gotta go. As has been said, "The rest is darkness". That's where you will be. In the dark, with no way to protect yourself and your family, which is part of the job I've always considered to be the 'man of the house', but some do not. Guns not your thing? OK. No problem. But be prepared to accept the consequences of your choices. Not a slam. We ALL gotta do what we GOTTA DO. But as a SMALL group of bad guys is breaking down your front door, has ALREADY KILLED BOTH YOUR DOGS and are drooling at the prospect of raping and then killing YOU ALL, just realize that's the choice YOU made. When we were living in Oakland, on almost any summer Friday or Saturday night, we could hear gunfire all the time (93 - 95). And we lived in a 'good' neighborhood, if there IS such a thing, especially in Oakland. My buddy bought a pretty nice house on the fringe of a 'good area' and he had a drive by shooting occur two houses down from his place. HIS DAUGHTER was playing outside in their front yard when it happened. That is no longer allowed to either of his children. They play in the back yard ONLY now. Good luck, bud. You gonna need it. EVEN WITH GUNS. Hell, it would almost take an armored column to get OUT of the bay area in an earthquake or shtf scenario. Good luck.

William Morgan | 03-01-2008 01:10 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Living in a city when TSHTF is like playing Russian Roulette - with six rounds in the cylinder! There are NO valid reasons to remain in the cities. NONE.

Cassius | 03-01-2008 01:58 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Quote:
There are NO valid reasons to remain in the cities. NONE.
What if your livelihood is made in the city? Is your answer to get a new career?

Fullpower | 03-01-2008 02:13 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. waiting for armageddon in San Francisco? as wallew says: "Good Luck"

cortez | 03-01-2008 02:16 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. yes. plenty of jobs out there. or just stay in the city. we like small numbers out here

Goald | 03-01-2008 02:27 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 990285) waiting for armageddon in San Francisco? as wallew says: "Good Luck"
Nope, not waiting. Looking to live life actually. Are you waiting for armageddon where you are? Are you living life? I've been to the craziest city in the world (and many would say that)- Cairo- check out the population density stats. I walked in some of the worst places at the worst times. I'm not gonna hype it up like you are 'armageddon' but yes I think that steps need to be taken to prepare and some terrible things will take place. Actually I found the post by Wallew quite sad. You are living in fear my friend and it sounds like your emotions are taking control of you. Should SHTF, which incidentally, I believe it will- I have faith that we'll be fine. Why? Because I'm going to do what I can even though I'll be in that area. And we will have somewhere to go- even if it takes 15 hrs. I sure don't think that everyone in the city will perish. Remember, there is progression to the regression.

macrohard | 03-01-2008 02:44 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. WTSHTF you'll want to look as miserable as you can. The best way to survive is to lay low and pretend you and your eventual family don't exist. If anyone tries to forcefully enter your apartment, be prepared with you arsenal of weapons and Macgyver style booby traps. :D Perhaps a homemade flamethrower would do the trick...

AMforPM | 03-01-2008 07:01 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Goald, I think most of your supplies should be at your home. Making the trek to get it out of storage in any of the bad kinds of disaster like pandemic, would be way too dangerous. If you just don't have room, maybe split the supplies, but have enough if you get told to stay inside by the gov, or if there actually is pandemic, in which case you do not want to go out and bring it home. What you can keep in half of 2 closets, plus under the bed and maybe even sofa might save your lives.

Unclad Lad | 03-02-2008 01:46 AM
Which part of "How to Prep in the City" don't you understand? Attention, GIMers: This thread is about preparing in the city. "Get the hell out!" isn't helpful or welcome. I understand that rurality is so much better in so many ways, but for some of us it isn't going to happen soon. I happen to ENJOY city life, as alien as that might seem to some of you. Yeah, I'd like to have a place in the middle of nowhere all my own, but it won't be happening soon, and I'm okay with that. That doesn't mean I won't be preparing because "I'm screwed anyway"; what a load of crap. Besides, as cortez says, Quote:
...just stay in the city. we like small numbers out here.
So please, if you don't have anything constructive to add, don't add it.* *Yes, by all means, you are still welcome to be smug about your desert bunkers and mini-farms--I wouldn't dream of taking THAT away from you. :tongue_ma:

cortez | 03-02-2008 02:01 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. no desert bunker here. fool yourself but leaving the city is the best advice, just because you dont want to dosnt make it sensable.

Unclad Lad | 03-02-2008 02:42 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. "Sensible" and "Possible" aren't synonyms. I have practical, solid reasons to live in the city, besides work. Besides, how much of "preparation", and discussion thereof, involves the "what-if" scenario? For example, how much time is wasted discussing zombies? Old-style slow zombies vs the new fast moving ones? What caliber for zombies? Zombie as metaphor, or viral mutation? It's absolutely ridiculous (and to be fair, a rare topic of discussion here on GIM). I live in the city, and yet, amazingly, I have the intention of "getting through it". Mr. & Mrs. Goald do too. I'm sure there are others here too.

Goald | 03-02-2008 01:10 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 989863) East Bay? Yeesh. Bulletin: Avoid Vallejo--they make become the first decent-sized city in America to file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection. Tahoe isn't going to be your best choice in western Nevada--too close to Reno and a straight drive up the hill from Sacramento. Carson City area is better. I've got a place off the beaten path picked out, but as I don't own it yet I'm not sharing my research :wink: . If a 4-hour drive is a requirement, you aren't going to get out of California any way but by boat, so you might want to start looking for some properties. With the foreclosure rates and what will be a decline in land prices, you might find something. I wouldn't look farther south than Clear Lake--up there you start to get into the state and national forests, and rurality is possible. Maybe a cabin on a small lake that was bought as a second home or investment? As long as it is off the main thoroughfares--101 being the biggest up there--you should be missed by most of the horde.
Uncle Clad: Your input feedback has been great- and a breath of fresh air if I'm honest. I think Clear Lake is a good suggestion and I'm looking into it. Do you reckon that because it's in CA I'll be paying SO much more in taxes and that I'll have to go through many bureaucratic channels just to do want I want on my land if I find somewhere there? I may want to excavate and have steel containers on my property- not very California-esque.

dbag333 | 03-02-2008 03:53 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Fist post, and wanted to say thank you to all the great contributors to this site. This thread is great, because I currently live just out side of New York City (Jersey City) and work in manhattan. Share an apt with 2 other people, 4th floor walk up. One of the few white guys in a mostly middle eastern, hispanic, black area, depending on the block you are on. Don't have any close freinds out here, as I'm from the west coast, those I do have, most live even closer to manhattan, or in it, then I. So, to do what I can, i'm stocking up on beans, rice, oats, salt, crisco, spam/sardines, and going to get some water containers and fill them myself, and get a water filter/purifier, manually rechargeable flash lites. I need to look into cooking fuels and apperati. I don't have a car. I'm considering one, but not sure it would do me much good, unless I really beat the rush out, and, its not really in the budget. I do have several freinds who's family live more rurally in NJ, on larger property (one has horses and a pond) the other some acerage with some farms near by) My plan is to get a good mountain bike, and internal frame hiking pack, use that to get to those properties if I have to. Some food, water, cloths, first aid, pms, flashlight, camping stove,, water filtering device, in the pack, and if cars and rescue are outa the question, hop on the bike and split. NJ has the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, other then DC and manhattan I believe, so I"m looking into some self defense. Would love at least a pistol. If I were able to get out of the city with them, a rifle and shot gun as well. Preps where I am right now, not going to do much, going to need to rely on getting out with what I can carry on my back.

ShirleyUGeste | 03-02-2008 04:16 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Hi Goald! I'm kind of in the same situation as you are, stuck in a city for reasons beyond my control. I'm in Spokane, Washington though, which will likely weather the storm a lot easier than the Bay Area. I'm a native Californian (central valley) and Frisco is my favorite place on Earth, so I'm familiar with your situation. I think I posted this info on another thread a month or two ago, but I'll restate it here as I think it is pertinent. Go and check out the mountains north or west of Santa Cruz if you're looking for an emergency bug-out destination. North of SC is pretty rugged. lots of trees, lots of rivers & streams, good hunting, good fishing, and unimproved land is still pretty reasonable. West of SC there are fewer people, but also fewer water sources and fewer trees. If you and Mrs. Goald had a stocked and ready motor home or travel trailer, you could probably get by for quite a while. Since you're more in tune to what's going on, and feel confident you'd see trouble on the horizon sooner than the average J6P, you could be out of the danger area with just a couple of hours notice. I'm not sure where in SF you are, but your best bet would be to get over to Hwy 1 and take it south to Half Moon Bay. From there cut east on Hwy92 until you intersect with Hwy 35. Follow 35 to Saratoga Gulch then take Hwy 9 south to the spot of your choice. These are primarily winding mountain roads, so going will be slow, but you won't likely hit a lot of traffic since everyone else will be trying to dash over the Golden Gate or Bay Bridges. Even in the worst of conditions, I'll bet you could get where you're going in under 5 hours; in the best conditions probably in 3 hours. A second option would be to follow Hwy 1 south along the ocean to the town of Davenport, then head inland from there. Of course, if the bridges are closed down or tied up with traffic, it wouldn't take long for HWY 1 to become a nightmare. The fastest way of course is 280 south to hwy 17, then connect with 9 in Santa Cruz. You and the Mrs. ought to take a Sunday drive down and check out the area. Gorgeous trip. Best of luck.

Goald | 03-02-2008 05:36 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Quote:
Originally Posted by ShirleyUGeste (Post 991305) Hi Goald! I'm kind of in the same situation as you are, stuck in a city for reasons beyond my control. I'm in Spokane, Washington though, which will likely weather the storm a lot easier than the Bay Area. I'm a native Californian (central valley) and Frisco is my favorite place on Earth, so I'm familiar with your situation. I think I posted this info on another thread a month or two ago, but I'll restate it here as I think it is pertinent. Go and check out the mountains north or west of Santa Cruz if you're looking for an emergency bug-out destination. North of SC is pretty rugged. lots of trees, lots of rivers & streams, good hunting, good fishing, and unimproved land is still pretty reasonable. West of SC there are fewer people, but also fewer water sources and fewer trees. If you and Mrs. Goald had a stocked and ready motor home or travel trailer, you could probably get by for quite a while. Since you're more in tune to what's going on, and feel confident you'd see trouble on the horizon sooner than the average J6P, you could be out of the danger area with just a couple of hours notice. I'm not sure where in SF you are, but your best bet would be to get over to Hwy 1 and take it south to Half Moon Bay. From there cut east on Hwy92 until you intersect with Hwy 35. Follow 35 to Saratoga Gulch then take Hwy 9 south to the spot of your choice. These are primarily winding mountain roads, so going will be slow, but you won't likely hit a lot of traffic since everyone else will be trying to dash over the Golden Gate or Bay Bridges. Even in the worst of conditions, I'll bet you could get where you're going in under 5 hours; in the best conditions probably in 3 hours. A second option would be to follow Hwy 1 south along the ocean to the town of Davenport, then head inland from there. Of course, if the bridges are closed down or tied up with traffic, it wouldn't take long for HWY 1 to become a nightmare. The fastest way of course is 280 south to hwy 17, then connect with 9 in Santa Cruz. You and the Mrs. ought to take a Sunday drive down and check out the area. Gorgeous trip. Best of luck.
Hi Shirley, Thanks so much for your message. We will definitely check out the area when we are there (next couple of months I imagine). It sounds exactly what I'm looking for in many ways. Hope I'll be able to find something under $100k. How reasonable is reasonable? You reckon I could really get a handful or more acres with a water source? I hope the land rights are decent and that I can do pretty much what I want, such as cut down a tree if I need some wood, drill for a well etc.. I'd love for it to be a recreational place where we can camp and enjoy nature and our surroundings. I'd also have a steel container for storage which I've mentioned a few times. Perhaps keep some supplies there if it looks quiet enough to do so. Am looking for websites that might be able to assist me in my search right now but will wait for the 'right' place as I reckon there could be quite a few looking to sell in the next year or two ahead. Anyway, your directions will prove invaluable I'm sure as we check it out and your insights are so appreciated and always welcome.

ShirleyUGeste | 03-02-2008 06:00 PM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Quote:
Originally Posted by Goald (Post 991448) Hi Shirley, Thanks so much for your message. We will definitely check out the area when we are there (next couple of months I imagine). It sounds exactly what I'm looking for in many ways. Hope I'll be able to find something under $100k. How reasonable is reasonable? You reckon I could really get a handful or more acres with a water source? I hope the land rights are decent and that I can do pretty much what I want, such as cut down a tree if I need some wood, drill for a well etc.. I'd love for it to be a recreational place where we can camp and enjoy nature and our surroundings. I'd also have a steel container for storage which I've mentioned a few times. Perhaps keep some supplies there if it looks quiet enough to do so. Am looking for websites that might be able to assist me in my search right now but will wait for the 'right' place as I reckon there could be quite a few looking to sell in the next year or two ahead. Anyway, your directions will prove invaluable I'm sure as we check it out and your insights are so appreciated and always welcome.
5 acres under 100k is VERY likely. You can do a websearch by entering "Santa Cruz real estate". Takes a while to get around, but go for the MLS listings, and you'll find a bunch of info including pictures. You can buy sea cargo containers at the port in Oakland; they have sales a couple times a year. The containers are generally damaged in some way, but still servicable. I haven't purchased any in a lot of years, but used to buy them 1 to 25 at a time (for use on my industrial complexes). Boxes are 8'x8' and come in lengths from 16 to 40 feet. I used to buy them for an average of about $1200 each. They're great for storage, but it will cost you a LOT to have it delivered -- most likely $800 or more. You won't have any trouble finding a trucker to deliver it though, independent truckers in California are desperate for work. Still, for $2000 you could have decent storage. Creeks, streams, and rivers are abundant in this area, so even if you don't have water running through your land, you'll be darned close to it. Check out the maps at the US Geographical Department. Can't tell you too much about laws regarding wells and tree-cutting; you'll have to check on that yourself. Best of luck.

Unclad Lad | 03-03-2008 01:32 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Quote:
Originally posted by Goald: Do you reckon that because it's in CA I'll be paying SO much more in taxes and that I'll have to go through many bureaucratic channels just to do want I want on my land if I find somewhere there?
Yes. But remember too that the falling prices of houses and land is hitting us harder than anywhere else except Las Vegas, so you're more likely to find fire sale prices on land than you would in, say, Iowa. OTOH, rural land tends to be less speculative than in more densely populated areas and therefore probably went up less to begin with. Clear Lake was an arbitrary point on the map, but it does get you well out of Napa/Sonoma and those insane dirt prices. Like I said, city dwellers who were looking for vacation homes to flip will be a good target. And it seems the city dwellers are poking their heads out. Good! my guess is there are a LOT of us here. :D

ratraceofficeworker | 03-03-2008 06:02 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. First of all get a storage unit in Carson City, for about $300-$400 a year you can get a small unit that'll store enough essentials to last you a year, but more importantly, things you may not want to keep around in the city but are of sentimental value or of record keeping importance. Nevada has a wide range of environments to offer and is the closest and cheapest next-state to temporarily hold up until you can sort your life out. SF itself is actually not that bad and the people are naive and pacified enough that in the initial stages of a crises you probably don't have to worry about disorder, but wherever you choose to live make sure it's in a building that doesn't have a soft first story, meaning it must have cross bracing or sturdy shear wall going both directions, and the structure must be bolted to the foundation. If you can find a place on one of the hills in the city that's even better because those hills are often on bed rock. These will ensure you'll have a place to live for at least a week or so after anything happens. If you have the forsight to leave ahead of any trouble do so, otherwise keep a low profile for a week or so after things calm down a bit, SF has bridges going every direction you need to go - and even if they're down you can just drive around the bay on a variety of surface roads if not the 2 main freeways running down the penninsula, it'll take you an extra hour. Once you make it out of the metropolitan area you should have no problem getting to Carson City, the trip shouldn't take more than 5 hours in good weather and 8 hours in snow, I hope your vehicle has all wheel drive, and you should keep about 30 gallons of fuel on hand provided you start off with a full tank. In most cases, if you have enough water and food stored ahead of time, by the time you've waited for a week the trouble may just be over. In an extraordinary event such as 7+ earthquake and for some reason the entire city starts burning down, just load the vehicle up with food and start slowly driving toward Nevada, camping in your car along the way. Believe me, planning for all this is the easy part, getting your wife to leave with you may be harder if she's not willing to part with her family. The argument about the masses can be worked to your advantage, get to know your neighbors and organize the neighborhood, you'll more likely survive looters if you're not defending your food and water by yourself. Oh and do consider getting a shotgun.

Unclad Lad | 03-03-2008 10:59 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Rat Race, Carson City will only work if it is a natural disaster, and he has enough lead time to beat the pack. I-80 is his only straight route to Nevada, and he has to pass through Sacramento to do it. He is NOT going to want to take Route 50. Either route will be a 2-way parking lot.. A more direct drive to Carson City is Route 4, but it's no highway. It also passes through Stockton, which is best avoided at any time, and he risks it being closed if he tries to get through in the winter, And since it is an old route that passes through many small towns along the way, any of them could decide to barricade it in an attempt to stop strangers from entering. No, unfortunately Goald's only real options lie in California.

ShirleyUGeste | 03-03-2008 11:56 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 992762) Rat Race, Carson City will only work if it is a natural disaster, and he has enough lead time to beat the pack. I-80 is his only straight route to Nevada, and he has to pass through Sacramento to do it. He is NOT going to want to take Route 50. Either route will be a 2-way parking lot.. A more direct drive to Carson City is Route 4, but it's no highway. It also passes through Stockton, which is best avoided at any time, and he risks it being closed if he tries to get through in the winter, And since it is an old route that passes through many small towns along the way, any of them could decide to barricade it in an attempt to stop strangers from entering. No, unfortunately Goald's only real options lie in California.
Smart answer. Heck, the bridges leading out of SF are a parking lot during a normal work commute. What do you think it'll be like in an emergency? For that matter, the freeways in Suckatomato are so bad it takes more than two hours just to drive across town during rush hour (a whopping distance of 24 miles.) (I lived there for 30 years) As for the people in SF being placid, he's obviously never seen some of the ghetto areas; and getting out of SF on the Bay Bridge takes him right through the heart of Oakland, vast areas of which aren't safe on a normal day in bright sunlight. In addition, Carson City has severe water issues (like most of Nevada). It's all high desert except the northeast corner. The Truckee River runs out of the Sierras into Reno, but Reno is NOT the place to be in an emergency situation. The Walker River (creek) runs for a short distance along the base of the Sierras south of Carson City, but I doubt the ranchers out there are going to be too welcoming of strangers in a crisis. The Humbolt River runs across the state from east to west, but it's so alkaline it's undrinkable (thousands of goldminers and their animals perished trying.) And let this be a warning: the original indians in Nevada were called the "Digger Indians" because foraging for food meant digging up grubs and insects since that's ALL there is out there. (Cactus is inedible). Unless that sounds yummy to you, I'd advise against Nevada. And keep in mind that most of the food in Nevada has to be trucked in from out of state. If TSHTF I doubt you'll see many trucks long-hauling it. Winters are very cold and snowy; summer temperatures are over 100 on a good day and can hit 120. Is that really where you want to be?

45 ACP | 03-04-2008 02:22 AM
Re: How to Prep in the City. I live in a big city in So Cal. There will be no bugging out initially. Bug in, hopefully some peace is restored, and you might be able to get out of town in the future. It might take some gold or silver to do so. Have food and water for 3 months minimum. A year would be better. Get a water filtration system. Can you survive for 3 months without leaving your residence? You should be able to. Plan on riding out the madness and getting out later.

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