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- - If/when the Internet goes down/away... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=265840)

AceNZ | 05-16-2008 07:36 AM
If/when the Internet goes down/away... If/when the Internet goes down/away, and assuming you still had power (like for a laptop, etc) -- a sub-SHTF scenario -- what sort of normally-online information would you still want to have available? Wikpedia is an obvious choice. Even though I don't agree with their politics, they do have some useful info. I wonder how to get a (useful) copy cached on my local PC? What else? Also, does anyone know of a "backup" network that could be used for basic information or data exchange if the Internet went down but phone lines were still working? I'm thinking of something like old-style UUCP, with point-to-point forwarding using modems and phone lines. Wireless would be even better, of course...

Sclorch | 05-16-2008 07:43 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... I downloaded a shit load of Survival ebooks off of thepiratebay.org, will probably buy a printer and print them all up just in case we lose power too. I've been reading them so I at least have the really important parts memorized.

undefined | 05-16-2008 08:20 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... I mirror smallish sites for info all the time using wget on linux... no idea how to do it in windows. The same could be done for wikipedia provided a reasonable wait time were used so as to not overload or cause harm to the network. A better question might be "What if *I* can not access the Internet when TSHTF?" It can not simply "go down". It's kind of like thinking something will happen and all roads will suddenly disappear. Sure, sites could go offline if their data centers are bombed or whatever and they have no failover but that's just some sites. DNS could go down, but DNS is not required (just very, very useful :) The more sites go down, the slower things get, unless of course the same ratio of people are also being knocked offline.

Squirrel Bait | 05-16-2008 08:30 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Quote:
Originally Posted by AceNZ (Post 1105668) If/when the Internet goes down/away, and assuming you still had power (like for a laptop, etc) -- a sub-SHTF scenario -- what sort of normally-online information would you still want to have available? Wikpedia is an obvious choice. Even though I don't agree with their politics, they do have some useful info. I wonder how to get a (useful) copy cached on my local PC? What else? Also, does anyone know of a "backup" network that could be used for basic information or data exchange if the Internet went down but phone lines were still working? I'm thinking of something like old-style UUCP, with point-to-point forwarding using modems and phone lines. Wireless would be even better, of course...
I think it's called the "Library". It's download rate is really, really slow though. But it's not near as suseptable to EMP. s :applause_

SLV>GLD | 05-16-2008 08:47 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Firefox will save entire webpages with the save as function. For sites with lots of binaries there is a firefox extension called DownThemAll. Wikipedia has a DVD version that was professionally culled for only the most accurate and hopefully useful information available on the site at the time. That DVD is freely available for downloading or can be purchased on a retail DVD. As for an answer to the OP; I'd most miss the ability to quickly find phone numbers, zip codes and driving directions. Granted, this information can be resolved in meatspace but it is very efficient online.

Lt Dan | 05-16-2008 09:42 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Grid goes down Internet will, as long as the grid stays up so will then net, unless the government decides to make the net illegal. For me personally, I'm on limited income anyway, it'd more likely be the cause of just one more thing I'd have to go without. The fed and of course inflation is steadily increasing my cost of living faster than income is coming in. This was true, and I noticed it happening way back about 20 years ago. This was a few years after I reached the top of my pay in my field and realized I was in a dead end job and too old to do much about it. Oh well, I was getting old before I ever got the Internet in the home, reckon I could get along without it if I couldn't afford it, just like I did before I got it. Besides I have many books on the subject of survival and homesteading, to fall back on.

Vendico | 05-16-2008 09:45 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... You can solve the loss of power problem with a solar charger. Assuming you have a laptop.

phideaux | 05-16-2008 09:49 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... If the Internet goes down (for more than a few days), we're screwed. It's like you can't be a little bit pregnant. So much of global commerce is transacted through the Internet now, the economy would grind to a halt. Being able to access a Wikipedia-type resource would be the least of our problems.

AceNZ | 05-16-2008 09:49 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Quote:
Originally Posted by undefined (Post 1105702) It can not simply "go down". It's kind of like thinking something will happen and all roads will suddenly disappear. Sure, sites could go offline if their data centers are bombed or whatever and they have no failover but that's just some sites. DNS could go down, but DNS is not required (just very, very useful :) The more sites go down, the slower things get, unless of course the same ratio of people are also being knocked offline.
Good luck trying to use the Internet without DNS. I don't know about you, but the number of IP addresses I keep on my machine or in my head is very, very small. If the root DNS servers go down, the whole Internet basically goes down with them. However, that does suggest something worth backing up -- a list of important or useful IPs... In addition to DNS outages, overseas cables can be cut or damaged, EMP can knock out routers and other critical hardware, routers can be hacked (until recently, it was possible to access most of the Cisco routers on the planet with a single password). Or of course the gubbermint could just "unplug" it, by forcing telcos and other gatekeepers to disable key routers, trunks, servers, etc. Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Bait (Post 1105715) I think it's called the "Library". It's download rate is really, really slow though. But it's not near as suseptable to EMP.
When I said "backup network," I meant as a backup for communication, not information (email and file transfer, not web). Even for information, though, the (very small) library near me sucks. Plenty of novels, plus a bunch of outdated books on subjects I have virtually no interest in.

khambi | 05-16-2008 10:15 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... how about we come up wid some sort of text only forum by dialing in(terminal)..I am sure we can set some up as a back through this forum..thoughts?

Glass | 05-16-2008 10:24 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Amateur radio was around long before the internet and is still going strong today. It has evolved into quite an advanced communications capability which includes things like repeater networks, often privately run linking vast stretches of the US and all other western countries. IRLP which links repeaters over the internet. There is also VoIP on amateur and morse code. BBS's were the precursor to the modern day internet. A BBS was basically one or more servers with many modems, people dialed in and downloaded/uploaded files using command line applications at speeds like 300bps (not mega, not even kilo, but hundreds of). BBS's exist on the Amateur bands. The prehistoric version of an ISP if you like. SSTV Slow scan tv is basically low frame rate television, Audio is usually full rate, video at very low rates, 1 frame per several seconds usally. Faster rate video TV is gathering speed and improving. Amateur radio in some bands is capable of global communication, its an ideal method of keeping in touch with whats going on around your own country and around the world. It bypasses MSM and gives you a chance to speak to real people about what they see on the ground. Amateur radio is also a key component of many countries emergency response effort. Many clubs spring up around Amateur radio and many are focused on supporting the emergency response for their country. Being involved in that is a good way to be able to see more about what is going on out there. Radios are highly portable now and with a little knowledge people can both power their radios and create makeshift antennas "in the wild" that achieve excellent results. A lot of operators hike and generally travel and are able to communicate in tough conditions. I think Amateur radio is ideal for SHTF scenarios. There are few online receivers if anyone is interested to take a listen. This is Bagdad: http://www.lamonica.com:8000/w7dxx-remote.m3u some times it is quiet, you can download the control software and tune the radio yourself, scan some frequencies and see what you can pick up. http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=3938 List: http://www.dxzone.com/catalog/Intern...ine_Receivers/ This one is good, you can see the chatter on a graph and drag the tuner to that frequency. Mostly european though: http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/ Texas: http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=6797

silverblood | 05-16-2008 01:35 PM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Quote:
Originally Posted by undefined (Post 1105702) I mirror smallish sites for info all the time using wget on linux... no idea how to do it in windows. The same could be done for wikipedia provided a reasonable wait time were used so as to not overload or cause harm to the network.
Can you describe the process for mirroring a site? I'm running Linux as well, and I sometimes use wget to download pages, but I'd like to know how to keep a running mirror. This might be a better question for someplace like linuxquestions.org

macrohard | 05-16-2008 01:52 PM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... After TS has HTF you will not be able to buy a new hard drive, and even if you can buy a new one it'll be expensive & hard to find. If you want to keep your data for more than ~10 years buy a solid state disk to store your critical information on as it'll have a longer lifetime (if you don't use windows).

undefined | 05-16-2008 02:29 PM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Quote:
Originally Posted by AceNZ (Post 1105809) Good luck trying to use the Internet without DNS. I don't know about you, but the number of IP addresses I keep on my machine or in my head is very, very small. If the root DNS servers go down, the whole Internet basically goes down with them. However, that does suggest something worth backing up -- a list of important or useful IPs...
I list of important IPs is useful. Since my ISP seems to not be able to run stable DNS I run a caching server using my ISP DNS and various other public name servers as "masters". This way, even when they all go down, my DNS still works. Of course this prevents discovering new sites if the root name server disappear, but that's more of a planning issue. The root name servers are of course the single point of failure, though having all go down at once is very unlikely. It's far more likely performance will be the issue.

AceNZ | 05-16-2008 11:53 PM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Quote:
Originally Posted by undefined (Post 1106271) The root name servers are of course the single point of failure, though having all go down at once is very unlikely. It's far more likely performance will be the issue.
Having all of the root servers go down at once is unlikely if you only take into account "natural causes" -- spontaneous equipment failures, etc. In a SHTF scenario, they would be prime targets for sabotage or (para)military strikes. Thinking about it that way, having them all fail at once is certainly no less likely than other survivalist scenarios....

Brent | 05-17-2008 12:45 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... This is why I am building up not only an extensive collection of e-books but also a large personal library which I will use to not only educate myself but hopefully my kids someday. This has been a pretty large investment but I can't think of a better way to spend the money.

Osaka | 05-17-2008 01:02 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Quote:
Originally Posted by AceNZ (Post 1105809) Good luck trying to use the Internet without DNS.
If DNS went down, it would suck, but tech savvy people would be able to adapt. In preparation, how can we access goldismoney.info without using the domain name? http://123.15.52.35 or something like that, right? Anyone know the number? Once we got to this forum, we'd be able to exchange server numbers for other sites.

buff01 | 05-17-2008 02:26 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... I have some homesteading books... that's the only really important internet information I'd need. I suppose a good radio would be fine for the government approved "news".

Rebel Yarr | 05-17-2008 02:33 AM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Quote:
Originally Posted by Osaka (Post 1106940) If DNS went down, it would suck, but tech savvy people would be able to adapt. In preparation, how can we access goldismoney.info without using the domain name? http://123.15.52.35 or something like that, right? Anyone know the number? Once we got to this forum, we'd be able to exchange server numbers for other sites.
I'd think the problem would be more along the lines of the colo facilities all being without power or major damage to the fiber/cabling infrastructure. DNS is just a lookup that uses that infrastrcture to locate servers - access to the services - and fractured infrastrcuture woudl be more real - if some sort of Internet "going away" thing were to happen. The only way i can really see it going away would be war - where transatlantic cables were cut - satellites shot down - major interconnects/hubs destroyed - stuff like that.

AceNZ | 05-18-2008 11:42 PM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Quote:
Originally Posted by Osaka (Post 1106940) If DNS went down, it would suck, but tech savvy people would be able to adapt. In preparation, how can we access goldismoney.info without using the domain name? http://123.15.52.35 or something like that, right? Anyone know the number? Once we got to this forum, we'd be able to exchange server numbers for other sites.
You can reach GIM at: http://216.120.255.12/ However, it immediately tries to redirect to goldismoney.info if you go to the home page. You can work around that issue by going directly to one of the forums. For example: http://216.120.255.12/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Maltheus | 05-23-2008 02:53 PM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... "Why, I plan to head out Californi-way. I hear they got loads of internet out there." Seriously, if you haven't seen the South Park episode, "Over Logging," you should check it out: http://www.southparkstudios.com/guide/1206/ It's all about the internet going down and it parodies the great depression. There's one scene at the end that's one of South Park's funniest moments. As for the DNS issue, just record your favorite IPs and add them to your "hosts" file if needed. If you want to backup a favorite site, use Teleport Pro on Windows or wget on Linux. I think a few books on survival and country living are a better choice though. I use the internet more for current events.

Twisted Avatar | 05-23-2008 03:02 PM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendico (Post 1105801) You can solve the loss of power problem with a solar charger. Assuming you have a laptop.
As soon as the budget will allow. http://www.laptopical.com/solar-panel.html T

Big_Rob | 05-23-2008 03:06 PM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... With BGP (boarder gateway protocol) RP (routing protocol), The internet will never go down all the way. Thats not to say that you will be able to access it if TSHTF but it will still be there.

AceNZ | 05-23-2008 07:46 PM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Rob (Post 1116007) With BGP (boarder gateway protocol) RP (routing protocol), The internet will never go down all the way. Thats not to say that you will be able to access it if TSHTF but it will still be there.
Whether it goes down "all the way" is immaterial. If it goes down enough that I can't use it or find the information I need or reach the people I want to reach, then it's down as far as I'm concerned. An airborne EMP could destroy all non-shielded routers within a 1000+ mile radius. BGP should be able to route around the damage zone, but any servers or routers within the zone would be inaccessible. Widespread (long-duration) power failures would cause similar problems. BGP also wouldn't solve a DNS root server outage.

Ash_Williams | 05-23-2008 08:53 PM
Re: If/when the Internet goes down/away... Books are great but you have to balance the knowledge with the experience of getting out there and trying stuff. If you have a plans for survival after SHTF, try them now. I mean, if you're planning on cooking with a wood fire - then start practicing right now! If you think you're gonna convert veggie oil to biodiesel, make sure you can do it before you need to do it. If you bought a gun for shooting at intruders, you should be making sure you and your family are good shots. And anything you picked up in the way of survival preps, you should be learning how to use today, not later on when there's so many other uncertainties.

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