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electric-amish | 09-21-2006 12:42 PM
well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad Interesting survivalist with a twist. These guys prepare and orginize in a good way. Humor and Seriousness Premier Zombie Suppression site. What I like about these guys are that they are locals (St. Louis) and orgunized. Haveing meetings and campouts with classes and fundraisers. Are there others like this around? E-A Google ZOMBIESQUAD or Zombiehunter. check out forums-not bad

Fiat Mutiny | 09-21-2006 03:08 PM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad I took a look at that website and forum. I have been frequenting survival themed websites a lot lately. It looked pretty interesting, survival with a humorous twist, although I think the whole zombie thing would get a little distracting from my goal of learning survival tips. Do you know what they mean by "PAW?" I looked around a bit but could not ascertain what they meant. By the way, I recently experimented with starting fires outside using non-conventional means. I was able to start a fire with a magnifying glass, but it wasn't easy. I also tried to start a fire with the fire bow and drill friction method. I only managed to make some smoke. I have read that certain hardnesses of wood are needed for the drill and the drill plate, but I know little of forestry. Any tips would be appreciated regarding the fire starting.

TheSimpleton | 09-21-2006 04:26 PM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad I'll take up that one: It's HARD. It's harder when it's cold, very hard when it's wet, and near impossible when both cold AND wet and you need it to live. Practice a lot. Here's some help though: Believe it or not, this may be the best thing I've seen: http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/...v=3&item=01167 WHY is it good? Because it costs $2 and you'll actually have it with you. Since this is far hotter and bigger spark than flint, you could start here. Or better, start with flint and when you can do that, the sparker will be easy as a match. You can google bow and drill and find as much as I can tell you. You can only DO this, particular to the woods that are within 1/4 mile of you, otherwise, what good is it? Knowing traditional Alaskan or Norweigan materials isn't a help. What they forget to emphasis is heat or spark are easy to get or make. Your drill probably could have worked even with the wrong woods. The most important thing is TINDER. Dry tinder is a bear to find in temperate climates. It seems the woods are always wet, so even dry stuff on a rainy or humid day is too wet to work well. It's absolutely crucial that you get the right tinder and enough of it. Learn to make a small bird's nest with softest within and rougher without. Lob in the spark and you light it often IN YOUR HANDS where you can see and blow on it accurately. A handful of fire before you even think about twigs. It's like giving birth: exciting and scary and important and irreversible all at the same time. That's not easy, so I'll tell you that char is a great invention. Any char will do, take a polish tin and put a pin hole in it, cotton fabric or whatever and put it on the stove. Smoke will pour out for a long time and then stops, which is how you make charcoal, only using a 50-gal drum. Char holds spark very well, and although the spark is quite small, giving you a lot of chances. After that, jute is an excellent tinder, and useful as string as well. It's this little-known reason in a world of matches that early people DIDN'T make fire. It was too much work. They'd take a pot and BORROW a coal from the neighbors like sensible people do. You can duplicate this using a fire-horn, where you put punk in a powderhorn and cap the lid. It smolders for days until you uncork it and tap the coal out again. Corncobs can work. For smokers, they used a brass tube with basically cotton sash cord tight inside. It would smolder when capped, but when pushed out would light up like a candle. These are all forgotten ways to NOT have to start with flint, because it's too hard and takes too long. How do you think they used to light all those candles? Barring this, New Worlders were inevitably armed, so they'd use the fine gun powder for their flintlock's pan to start a fire with a spark. Apparently that's touchy. One of the best things I've seen for bow-drills is to make a smooth divot in your knife as the upper socket. Surprisingly, it's not the fork or shaft that's hard to make, it's the hand-block. Having the perfect hand-block with you is a big relief=precious time saved. Don't forget that you can use a disposable tip of some pithy plant bound to a good wood shaft, because even a perfectly straight stick is often in short supply. You'll need this technology anyway to drill holes in wood, bone and teeth in the field. Any sharp shard you can find and bind is good. Tinder traditionally went in the quiver, safe and dry. (Arrows and bowstrings had to be dry too) When you think bow-drill is easy, try hand-drilling. All good ideas, but the only real solution is practice in your area, your conditions and your materials. Have to check out the site. TS

mtnman | 09-21-2006 04:44 PM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSimpleton (Post 364627) I'll take up that one: It's HARD. It's harder when it's cold, very hard when it's wet, and near impossible when both cold AND wet and you need it to live. Practice a lot. Here's some help though: Believe it or not, this may be the best thing I've seen: http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/...v=3&item=01167 WHY is it good? Because it costs $2 and you'll actually have it with you. Since this is far hotter and bigger spark than flint, you could start here. Or better, start with flint and when you can do that, the sparker will be easy as a match. You can google bow and drill and find as much as I can tell you. You can only DO this, particular to the woods that are within 1/4 mile of you, otherwise, what good is it? Knowing traditional Alaskan or Norweigan materials isn't a help. What they forget to emphasis is heat or spark are easy to get or make. Your drill probably could have worked even with the wrong woods. The most important thing is TINDER. Dry tinder is a bear to find in temperate climates. It seems the woods are always wet, so even dry stuff on a rainy or humid day is too wet to work well. It's absolutely crucial that you get the right tinder and enough of it. Learn to make a small bird's nest with softest within and rougher without. Lob in the spark and you light it often IN YOUR HANDS where you can see and blow on it accurately. A handful of fire before you even think about twigs. It's like giving birth: exciting and scary and important and irreversible all at the same time. That's not easy, so I'll tell you that char is a great invention. Any char will do, take a polish tin and put a pin hole in it, cotton fabric or whatever and put it on the stove. Smoke will pour out for a long time and then stops, which is how you make charcoal, only using a 50-gal drum. Char holds spark very well, and although the spark is quite small, giving you a lot of chances. After that, jute is an excellent tinder, and useful as string as well. It's this little-known reason in a world of matches that early people DIDN'T make fire. It was too much work. They'd take a pot and BORROW a coal from the neighbors like sensible people do. You can duplicate this using a fire-horn, where you put punk in a powderhorn and cap the lid. It smolders for days until you uncork it and tap the coal out again. Corncobs can work. For smokers, they used a brass tube with basically cotton sash cord tight inside. It would smolder when capped, but when pushed out would light up like a candle. These are all forgotten ways to NOT have to start with flint, because it's too hard and takes too long. How do you think they used to light all those candles? Barring this, New Worlders were inevitably armed, so they'd use the fine gun powder for their flintlock's pan to start a fire with a spark. Apparently that's touchy. One of the best things I've seen for bow-drills is to make a smooth divot in your knife as the upper socket. Surprisingly, it's not the fork or shaft that's hard to make, it's the hand-block. Having the perfect hand-block with you is a big relief=precious time saved. Don't forget that you can use a disposable tip of some pithy plant bound to a good wood shaft, because even a perfectly straight stick is often in short supply. You'll need this technology anyway to drill holes in wood, bone and teeth in the field. Any sharp shard you can find and bind is good. Tinder traditionally went in the quiver, safe and dry. (Arrows and bowstrings had to be dry too) When you think bow-drill is easy, try hand-drilling. All good ideas, but the only real solution is practice in your area, your conditions and your materials. Have to check out the site. TS
While your information is excellent I must comment on one thing. Making fire with Flint and Steel is easy once you practice a little. I keep my fire kit in my bug-out bag. To stay in practice I use it when ever I�m burning the brush pile or starting the wood stove. This stuff is kept in an old brass soap tin. When you run low on char more can be made in the tin. Not to brag but with these items I can have a fire in about 90 seconds. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...9/MVC-102S.jpg

sam | 09-21-2006 05:34 PM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad When a Boy Scout I tried to start a fire with stick and bow. The end of the stick would blacken and smoke, but I never was sucessful. But starting a fire with flint and steel is easy, if you have dry tinder. Should be able to find a piece of steel and a rock that will spark laying around almost anywhere. Hardened steel (tool steel) works best. Find a rusty old file and you are in luck. Just whack rocks with whatever steel you can find until you find one that sparks. Find a lil altoids tin, a paint can, even a small jar to make more tinder and keep it dry. Try going for a walk in your neighborhood, or in the woods, and see it you can't find some steel, a rock that will spark, and a "tinderbox" Take them home and for your first try, cheat a little by making some dry "tinder". Get a piece of dry cotton cloth, light it, and after it is partially burned, smother it in your tinder box. Put the tinder on the ground and shoot a spark at it. When a spark catches, pick up the tinder with your hands, manipulate it (experimentation and experience will tell you how), and blow. It will burst into flame in seconds, so be ready to stick it under a teepee of fine twigs. Once you have a fire going, make more tinder. Maybe experiment with roasting some dry grass, to make your next fire making attempt a lil more challenging. After that try to find something in the environment that will work as tinder. I have never tried anything but pre-prepared tinder. I will soon. dtnwn

Fiat Mutiny | 09-21-2006 09:15 PM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm going to keep trying on the fire bow method. It's good exercise anyway. I might as well get one of those flint and steel combo's. Does anyone know a tip about finding flint? I have come across it a couple of times in my life, but it isn't obviously abundand in my area.

sam | 09-21-2006 10:29 PM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad FM- Doesn't have to be flint. I just tried it after 45 or so years. Yup, just like I remembered, well sort of. Not finding a suitable piece of steel in my yard, I dug an old rusty file out of my tool chest. Went back to the yard and started whacking rocks. Found one in a few minutes. It was layered in granite and mostly likely not flint. Jasper also works. Found a small empty peach can, and a tuna can for a lid. Burned a piece of old sock and smothered it in the cans. It didn't work, I think because it wasn't 100% cotton. A piece of t-shirting from my rag box worked ok. But another piece of t-shirting worked very well. When I made the char I burned it well, but left some areas not so burned to give it a lil body in places, then I smothered the flame in the can. I used another piece of not burned t-shirting for the tinder. Dry grass for tinder would have worked, I am sure of it. After getting a spark to take in the char, I picked it up, a moved the edges around the glowing spot and blew a lil. Once the thing was glowing well I put it in the middle of the unburned t-shirting and wrapped the hot stuff so it was kinda nested down in a lil cup. I blew hard a few seconds and it burst into flame. WEAR GLASSES before you start banging on rocks with steel. When trying to hit the char, it might be easier to aim if you hit the steel with the rock. dtnwn

RiverRat | 09-21-2006 10:39 PM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad :character Bow and Drill ? Make yourself one before you need it. Maple works great for the top and bottom blocks.........use a countersink(bevel)bit for the holes. On the bottom block........drill a few medium size holes(3/8-1//2) very close around the center to pack with dry tender........notch or cut a slot from the center to each outside hole........sort of looks like a wagon wheel spoke.Loosely place (small bits) of tender in the holes and pack around the center hole where the drill butt rests.Loop and attach your drill rod to the bowstring........grab your handblock and let her rip....... We used this method in the Boy Scouts...........used to have competitions to see who could get a fire going the quickest. Usually took about two minutes.........sometimes less. In a survival situation prefab your top and bottom block and stuff them in your Bug Out Kit....with a length of strong heavy twine.The bow can be fabricated out of most anything that will bend and hold tension.Drill rod about 14 inches long..whatever you feel comfortable using. There is one little trick you should know...........we mostly used a broom stick as the drill......most are pine which is a lot softer than maple....so it heats up quick. The larger the surface diameter of the drill end the faster you will create heat............ Haven't did this in years.......think I'll make one tonight........good idea. :beer:

sam | 09-21-2006 11:31 PM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad RR- Middle age guys today, who were Boy Scouts, know how to do shlt, eh? :D Not sure what BSA has "evolved" into. Prolly wouldn't approve if I knew. dtnwn

Fiat Mutiny | 09-21-2006 11:35 PM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad RiverRat- Do you make a notch for the center hole to the edge of the bottom block? Most of the diagrams had one. Otherwise, good info. Where I live, there are plenty of maples, so that will help. The idea I had was a total roughing it situation, i.e. no pre-fab. I saw Survivorman use his shoestring for the bowstring, so I figure I would have a shoestring and maybe a knife (if lucky). I could always notch a board with a sharp rock though, would probably take two days of efforts going my speed. I wasn't a Boy Scout. In retrospect, I wish that I was.

Fiat Mutiny | 09-21-2006 11:41 PM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad Sam- I will keep in mind the rock thing. I was wondering about the "char" though. So basically char a flammable item... this makes it easier to create fire? So a cold piece of charcoal from a burned out fire would help the tinder get ignited? I don't yet grasp the physics behind that, but I will certainly try it. Sorry I hijacked the post --- but you see, zombies fear fire, and if my primary weapon is lost or disabled, I could use fire vs. the zombies. http://www.shotgunreviews.com/sgr/im...8dayslater.jpg

sam | 09-22-2006 01:01 AM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad FM- A cold piece of charcoal? I dunno. I doubt it would work. Charcoal is hard. Sparks would prolly just keep bouncing off of it. You want the carbon to be in a soft/fluffy form so it will capture and nurture a spark. If a piece of charcoal is all I had, I'd try pounding it into a powder, see if it would catch a spark that way. dtnwn

sam | 09-22-2006 01:28 AM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad Hijack a thread? Y'all know what a figure four deadfall is? A friend of mine was stuck in the field, couldn't leave camp, for months at a stretch. He remembered seeing a diagram of a figure four deadfall in a book, and so to pass the time he decided to try making one. After thinking about how the three sticks needed to work together, he carefully carved them. He tied an acorn on the bait stick. Found a big flat rock and propped it up with his stick trigger. Pretty soon a squirrel took the bait and got squashed. My friend salted and dried the squirrel. Prolly on the same rock that killed the bushy tail. John said he had to keep shooing the flies away until the meat was dry. dtnwn

sam | 09-22-2006 01:59 AM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad FM- Well, char isn't just flammable, lots of things are flammable. Char can catch a minute spark, and provide a medium for it to grow. Or just carry around a squirt bottle of high test. Moisten a log with the petrol, stand back, and launch a spark its way with yer flint and steel. Just teasing............ :character dtnwn

mtnman | 09-22-2006 02:11 AM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad [quote=Fiat Mutiny;364539]Do you know what they mean by "PAW?" I looked around a bit but could not ascertain what they meant.quote] Post Apocalypse World

electric-amish | 09-22-2006 02:17 AM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad Hey Mtnman I see in your picture you have a black powder pistol in your belt. How do they shoot? Recoil? I've seen kits. Did you build it yourself? Electric-Amish

TheSimpleton | 09-22-2006 08:04 AM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad I love this quote: "starting a fire with flint and steel is easy...if you have dry tinder." It was the dry ANYTHING part I was worried about. In the west in forest fire conditions, you can start a fire by scuffing your feet too hard. But when it's nice like that you don't NEED a fire. It's nice, it's useful, but it isn't life-saving. It's when it's 0c and sleeting that you NEED a fire or perish, and that's when it's hardest to make. So don't cheat on good days and feel safe. Where I've been it's mostly wet even if it's not raining. It might not have not rained for weeks and the tinder is still wet. In the outdoors, all the sticks, leaves and needles are also too damp to burn 360 days a year. So that's my focus. In Texas or Colorado or Nunavit it's probably different. Good idea for starting every fire with sparks to stay sharp. There is plenty of junk wherever man is to make all kinds of useful tools. What primitives would have done to have a #10 tin can! With a wire bail! One of the magical junk items is the leaf-spring ends you find on the shoulder. It's hard steel for sparkers, hoes, knives, planes, plates, and so on. Collect all 4! If you know how to make everything from nothing, you never feel fearful and unsafe, so it's important to start from the bottom, not from 1880 sulphur matches, or 1910 with cartridged rounds. If you start from some level of technology or history all you need to be destroyed is to drop you below your technological level and wait a week. This is common with wars, to reduce the other side to a lower level. But if they're comfortable at a lower level, what's the privation? And if they can rebuild from nothing, like Belgium after Charles V, then in a generation or two it's even forgotten that it was rebuilt so quickly. Preps take on a new meaning with this baseline. They're your luxury goods, or your neighborly help goods, not things to help you survive, because you will anyway. Chunk charcoal burns but soaks up moisture like a sponge within hours. Back to the drawing board. Cotton cloth being somewhat in short supply in the forest, what's the best wild tinder in your area? TS

markam | 09-22-2006 09:01 AM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiat Mutiny (Post 364539) Do you know what they mean by "PAW?" I looked around a bit but could not ascertain what they meant.
I am pretty sure that it means post-apocalypse world

aikitrader | 09-22-2006 09:20 AM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad Oh great....now I have to start saving all my dryer lint in bags so that when TSHTF I have tinder to start a fire. Yes....I used to be a Boy Scout and dryer lint was one of the materials we used to start fires.

sam | 09-22-2006 12:26 PM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad TS- I learned in Boy Scouts. Never got beyond using anything but dry prepared char/tinder with flint and steel, so I can't say anything about using found tinder. It's something I will try in the future. There is disagreement among motorcyclists on what is the best way to learn riding. One camp advises starting out on lightweight 50cc bikes, the other group thinks beginners should learn on the biggest fastest machines they intend to ride. You can guess which way I think is best. I always have a Bic lighter in my pocket, and at least a dozen at home. On a cold drizzly deer hunting trip, I used the lighter to start a small fire to warm up. It wasn't easy even with a lighter, but being a former Boy Scout, hiker, camper, with lots of campfire starting experience, I was able to do it. Just had a thought, so I tried it. It's easy to pry the bullet out of a .22 cartridge. Just jamb the bullet in the muzzle of the unloaded gun and wiggle the brass back and forth. The sparks from a Bic wouldn't ignite the powder, but a flame from the lighter set the powder off easily. (For those that don't know, smokeless powder doesn't explode, it burns. It burns rather more quickly when it's ignited within the confines of a cartridge rather than open air, but still it's technically not an explosion.) I also chambered the empty .22 cal brass with live primer and squeezed the trigger, but no flame, not even one spark exited the muzzle. Further experimentation with center fire ammo is warranted, I think. dtnwn

Worldmariner | 09-27-2006 06:04 PM
Re: well organized Survivalist Zombie Squad Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 364960) :character Bow and Drill ? Make yourself one before you need it. . :beer:
Well... call me pragmatic.. .but, if you are going to make one ahead of time, then worry about where it is... why not just buy 3 BlastMatches for ten bucks fiat and just stash them in the same place. If you have never used a BlastMatch, you will be an instantaneous believer.

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