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MoonChakka | 04-04-2006 07:56 PM
Yet another shotgun question :) I am interested in purchasing a half decent used side by side 12 ga. shotgun. I know with it only holding 2 shells it is not the best for defense, but I have wanted one for years. I have budgeted between 3 and 4 hundred. Is this reasonable? Should I be able to find a used side by side shotgun in that price range at a shop? I do not need it right away, it is just something I kind of always wanted to have, so no big hurry, I am willing to look around and bide my time waiting for the right one to be available. I have been checking the local dealers regularly, and have had no luck. Just today I went to a shop and the dealer had 2 used side by sides for 2 and 3 hundred respectively. They looked old and beat. (I am not that knowledgable, so am at their mercy, sort of.) He admitted to me that they weren't great guns and he thinks they would be only good for someone who likes to mess around with old shotguns. I passed them up because of this. I guess my question is do I stand a reasonable chance of finding one in that price range, or should I give up?

hoarder | 04-04-2006 08:07 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Depending on your area, you should be able to find one for about $200 to $250. There isn't much to wear out so old and beat up is not a problem, usually. I've got 3 side by side 12 guages. Most common problem is stock to receiver fit. Stock cracks can be fixed with super glue and there is a long screw on most them behind the butt plate that tightens the stock. Most non-communist states allow an 18 inch barrel but it's best to leave it at 18 3/8 in case you drop it on the muzzle and ding it, then you can cut a little more off (found out hard way). That's 18" from barrel to breechblock, in other words the chamber is counted as barrel. Best tool to saw the barrel is a 14" cut off saw like is used for angle iron. Use a square to set up the saw. Makes a perfect cut, then touch up with a stone so it won't be too sharp.

eat_beef | 04-04-2006 08:39 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) You might try a gun show. I'm in and out of gun and pawn shops quite a bit, and I rarely see a side by side (or over/under, for that matter). Most of the ones I do see are fancy late model ones, or collectables. In other words, there's a pretty good demand in my area, and not much supply, but your mileage may vary. I've found the supply demand factor on firearms changes a lot between regions. You also might try looking on www.gunbroker.com www.thehighroad.org That second sight is awesome. Its a forum that allows you to arrange a face to face in your area. You can even post what you're looking for. :eating: beef

hoarder | 04-04-2006 08:50 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Yes, here in Texas they are few and far between. If you go to gun shows in Arkansas and Missouri it's entirely another story, they are laying on every other table for $200, many of them very old.

WAoG | 04-04-2006 09:19 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonChakka I am interested in purchasing a half decent used side by side 12 ga. shotgun. I know with it only holding 2 shells it is not the best for defense, but I have wanted one for years. I have budgeted between 3 and 4 hundred. Is this reasonable? Should I be able to find a used side by side shotgun in that price range at a shop? I do not need it right away, it is just something I kind of always wanted to have, so no big hurry, I am willing to look around and bide my time waiting for the right one to be available. I have been checking the local dealers regularly, and have had no luck. Just today I went to a shop and the dealer had 2 used side by sides for 2 and 3 hundred respectively. They looked old and beat. (I am not that knowledgable, so am at their mercy, sort of.) He admitted to me that they weren't great guns and he thinks they would be only good for someone who likes to mess around with old shotguns. I passed them up because of this. I guess my question is do I stand a reasonable chance of finding one in that price range, or should I give up?
I was in the local gun shop yesterday he had at least two brand new under three hundred bucks. Don't know were they we made. Some dealer should order one for you if they don't have one.

hoarder | 04-04-2006 09:27 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Quote:
Originally Posted by WAoG I was in the local gun shop yesterday he had at least two brand new under three hundred bucks. Don't know were they we made. Some dealer should order one for you if they don't have one.
None of the new ones are made in USA, I think. They are imported "coach guns" with about 20" barrels. Probably nothing wrong with them. eat_beef, thanks for the highroad link!

demosfen | 04-04-2006 10:31 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef You also might try looking on www.gunbroker.com www.thehighroad.org That second sight is awesome. Its a forum that allows you to arrange a face to face in your area. You can even post what you're looking for. :eating: beef
We could use this something like this here at goldismoney

Willbe | 04-04-2006 10:50 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Quote:
Originally Posted by demosfen We could use this something like this here at goldismoney
I don't see any sellers here only buyers

hoarder | 04-04-2006 10:56 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Quote:
Originally Posted by Willbe I don't see any sellers here only buyers
I will be selling a tiny bit of my stash this spring to stay liquid, about 1500 ounces or so.

drafter | 04-05-2006 11:03 AM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Saw a really nice sidexside 12ga for $200 at a yard sale last Sunday. I would have bought it but I had already spent my "gun money" for the week. There was a single shot 12ga in the paper for $100 a couple of weeks ago also so there are still some decent deals out there.

wallew | 04-05-2006 11:25 AM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder Best tool to saw the barrel is a 14" cut off saw like is used for angle iron. Use a square to set up the saw. Makes a perfect cut, then touch up with a stone so it won't be too sharp.
As a gunsmith, the idea that a 'chop saw' is 'the best tool' to cut a barrel makes me cringe. It MAY be the best tool if the only other tool you own is a screwdriver. THE BEST TOOL for cutting a shotgun barrel(s) down is a MILL. Properly balanced in the vise with a machine shop level. Set the barrel at 90 degrees to the mill cutting tool. The cut is clean and smooth. You MIGHT want to use a BORE HONE on it after you are done. BUT PLEASE, a CHOP SAW??? Why not a chisel? Or a torch? OR, well anything ELSE that just falls to hand. Do you use 10 lb sledge to repair your car too? Hoarder, for every job there is a correct tool. THEN there are 'other tools' that will work, but were NEVER DESIGNED to do the job. Think about it. A CHOP SAW!!! :haha:

hoarder | 04-05-2006 05:45 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Wallew, you apparently have not used a chop saw. They have an abrasive blade that makes an exceptionally clean cut. Try it ya like it. A chop saw is fifty bucks and a mill is several hundred. I think I'd use the chop saw if I had both. Mills are not that great for end cuts on tubing.

wallew | 04-05-2006 07:48 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder Wallew, you apparently have not used a chop saw. They have an abrasive blade that makes an exceptionally clean cut. Try it ya like it. A chop saw is fifty bucks and a mill is several hundred. I think I'd use the chop saw if I had both. Mills are not that great for end cuts on tubing.
hoarder, APPARENTLY YOU HAVE NEVER USED A MILL. And yes, I've used a chop saw. CUTTING TUBING in gunsmithing school. A mill IS THE CORRECT TOOL for cutting a double barrel shotgun. And they are SEVERAL THOUSANDS of dollars, even for the cheap Taiwanese job. A GOOD American made mill will probably exceed ten grand or more. If it's computer controlled you can AT LEAST double that. But to use a chop saw on a double barrel shotgun is extremely stupid. You have ZERO control over the speed of the blade and a vibration set up at the WRONG SPEED can cause the barrels to separate or even split all the way down the middle. You CAN control the speed of ANY MILL quite easily. And you have NUMEROUS choices of cutting surfaces, from rough to fine. SO, go ahead. USE THAT HAMMER in place of a surgeons scalpel. IT'S NOT MY shotgun you are going to SCREW UP. To everyone else. DO NOT use a chop saw. If you want to do a 'hack job' on your shotgun, use just that. A HACK SAW. It WILL take a while, but at least you SHOULD NOT separate the barrels if you go slowly and take your time. Also, I cut ALL my shotgun barrels to 19 inches instead of 18 inches. THAT WAY, there is NO question if it's legal or not. And that extra inch doesn't make any difference in how it handles or shoots. If this is a problem and you WANT a shorter than 18 inch barrel, contact the BATF and find out about getting an 'ANY OTHER WEAPON' (AOW) permit from them so you can LEGALLY cut one below the legal 18 inch length. You will have to get your local sheriff to sign the form, but other than that, it's just about a three month wait. THEN you can cut down your shotgun to shorter than the legal length, which is CURRENTLY 18 inches.

Libertarian_Guard | 04-05-2006 08:35 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Funny how the term “double barrel shotgun” has changed into “side by side” …… perhaps a cross-eyed gun enthusiast had once confused an over under shotgun with the common double barrel of yesteryear. Seriously though, is the term side by side used because of a difference in choke between the two barrels, as is the practice with over under shotguns?

hoarder | 04-05-2006 09:43 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) The issue of separating barrels with a chop saw is addressed by first wrapping the barrel in electrical tape, then using the chop saw vise to clamp them together gently. The issue if blade vibration is addressed by making sure the blade is up to speed before it contacts the barrels. If I did ruin one in 10 shotguns by using a chop saw I would still be money ahead than if I spent $200 getting a $150 shotgun milled by a gunsmith. It may not be the gunsmith approved method, but then who wants to spend a fortune on gunsmithing a cheap shotgun? Mine never separated.

Au_Ag | 04-05-2006 09:55 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertarian_Guard ....Seriously though, is the term side by side used....
They are used interchangeably - I have never heard any distinction between the two - Locally/regionally there may be some preference for one over the other - I have usually called them simply a double - The over and under is so disctinctive that I have never heard one called a double or anything other than O/U

wallew | 04-06-2006 09:14 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder If I did ruin one in 10 shotguns by using a chop saw I would still be money ahead than if I spent $200 getting a $150 shotgun milled by a gunsmith. It may not be the gunsmith approved method, but then who wants to spend a fortune on gunsmithing a cheap shotgun? Mine never separated.
If you are paying that much to your gunsmith, then YOU truly don't know what you are doing. I charge $35. IF I don't have to do anything but cut the barrels. IF my customer wants a brass bead put in place, the bead is $8 and drill and tap is another $15. So total, that would be $58. If you have the MONEY for 10 shotguns, you have the money to do this CORRECTLY. Or have it done correctly. You have consistently attempted to make a method that CAN cause problems with a double barrel shotgun to be acceptable. It's NOT an acceptable method to cut a double barrel.

eat_beef | 04-06-2006 10:15 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Wallew, I understand that this is your way of life and everything, but really, if I own a shotgun and want to cut the barrel with and axe, that's acceptable. He who does the payin' does the sayin'. :eating: beef

Leaf Ericson | 04-06-2006 11:26 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Common practice is to use a hack saw then dress the cut with a round file to round the edges in and out. The best practice in most cases is to leave the barrels alone and have two different choke patterns as previously mentioned. It also preserves what value the gun may have for resale and keeps it looking benign. Sawed of shotguns are really only useful for very close encounters and of not much use for other survival uses, like hunting.

wallew | 04-06-2006 11:35 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) EB, YOU are absolutely correct. BUT giving this info out as the 'correct' or a good way to do this particular modification is at the very LEAST legally risky. Someone follows this advice and the barrel goes BLEWY, those who give this type of advice COULD be held legally liable. And my services are no longer available to the general public. ONLY to several LEO & FLEO that I know. And about half a dozen of my customers who have been my best ones over the past eight or nine years. BUT I cannot sit idly by and let this type of info be put out there without making notice that this is NOT the correct way to do this. IF YOU WANT to take an axe to your shotgun, IT'S YOUR LIFE you take into your hands by doing so. And hopefully only you will suffer the injury if this weapon does blow up while you are shooting it. BECAUSE if anyone else does and THEIR attorney WILL be having the weapon in question inspected. Again, in OUR current litigous society, giving out firearms modifications like this can be like doing CRACK cocaine. It can cost you your house.

GOLD DUCK | 04-07-2006 10:29 AM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) QWAK,Why must people walk around the OBVIOUS solution to find the complicated answer? Get a Mossburg PUMP and contact the company and buy a new 18 1/2" barrel, then when you need to HUNT you just replace the short barrel with the long one in about one min.! the DUCK

eat_beef | 04-07-2006 10:33 AM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Or you could just get a club, as that's about what good a Mossberg will do you once it jams. :eating: beef

GOLD DUCK | 04-07-2006 12:30 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef Or you could just get a club, as that's about what good a Mossberg will do you once it jams. :eating: beef
QWAK,eat_beef, I had that problem with my M16 but never so far with my Mossberg and seeing as SOooooooo many police use them I got to figure they tend to be reliable. Keep it CLEAN and use good amunition and it is unlikely to let you down when you need it. Most likely the JAMING problems are related to RELOADED shells and firing OVER LOADED shells causing damage to the weapon. Personaly I don't want to shoot any one or any thing just be able to IF I have to. When dealing with PEOPLE the POWER of a GUN or any other weapon is that the OTHER person BELIEVES you WILL use it. ONCE you actualy DO use it the whole SITUATION moves to a MUCH higher and diferent level!:applause_ the DUCK

mightyspuds | 04-07-2006 03:01 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) NOT a pro. That said,Ive READ extensively that the Mossberg and Remington pumps are excellent guns,and had that also relayed to me at the gun shop. I got the Remington.Best deal and availability is why. I would also listen to the gunsmith.Im sure you can cut it at home,you can fix your car with bailing wire too. I would take the pro's advice before I would challenge him,he has no motive really to tell you something wrong,he has no money at stake,so take the good advice,thats my take on it. Spuds:sheep:

wallew | 04-07-2006 05:59 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) The Mossberg 590 IS the shotgun of choice of ALL US SERVICE BRANCHES. So, anyone who thinks that Mossberg is an inferior weapon should take another look. They make an extremely capable tool. And thx for the kind words. I REALLY don't have an axe to grind with anyone here. I just try and give what I KNOW works because I've been there, done that. But worst case is go to YOUR choice of professionals. MOST are willing to speak with you, some at length as to the process they use for shortening the barrel of your shotgun for free BEFORE you lay your money down. Hope that helps.

eat_beef | 04-07-2006 07:31 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) The same US service branches that swapped the M14 for the M16? They couldn't possibly do anything wrong. :aetsch: Sorry, but I have had the worst experience of my firearms life with a Mossberg. I have personally seen 3 other Mossy's come out of the box, brand new, and FTF/FTE. One would lock up and you couldn't pull the trigger. I know that a lot of them are ok. Maybe even most of them. But I have never had, nor seen another have, one bad experience with an 870. And I've been around a lot more 870's than Mossbergs. The cost of an 870 is about 50 frns more than the Mossberg. If its a 1 in 100 chance that its a poj, I'll pay the extra 50.

wallew | 04-08-2006 07:51 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef The same US service branches that swapped the M14 for the M16? They couldn't possibly do anything wrong. :aetsch: Sorry, but I have had the worst experience of my firearms life with a Mossberg. I have personally seen 3 other Mossy's come out of the box, brand new, and FTF/FTE. One would lock up and you couldn't pull the trigger. I know that a lot of them are ok. Maybe even most of them. But I have never had, nor seen another have, one bad experience with an 870. And I've been around a lot more 870's than Mossbergs. The cost of an 870 is about 50 frns more than the Mossberg. If its a 1 in 100 chance that its a poj, I'll pay the extra 50.
Well, THERE'S your first problem. ANY NEW WEAPON should be given a proper break in period. I rarely purchase ANY weapon new. Not from a cost standpoint either. I can disassemble and reassemble most weapons fairly quickly when considering a purchase and will KNOW if this weapon has seen abuse or not. And I KNOW the ones to avoid. Mossy's are generally a sturdy firearm. And about the M16. It's just getting ready to be upgraded to shoot 6.8mm which will make it a great weapon, FINALLY after what, forty years in the field? The idea behind it was flawed. If you shoot a soldier in the field, it will take two or three soldiers to carry him off the field and get him to safety. Seems we have run into groups that just don't know that's what they are supposed to do.

HistoryStudent | 04-10-2006 04:00 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) 18 inches are short enough unless you want to run around doing felonies up and down the states. For once you "chop" a shotgun you are already there with your first felony if some do-gooder turns you in like your family member who's not in love with you or your behavior, right? Later on: "Your HONOR I just wanted to be real cool with my sawed-off." "Right, gun rights forfeited for life, 30 days in the cooler, pay your attorney $15,000.00 and give the court $15,000.00; Oh, yes, I hoped you enjoyed being cool cause your brother-in-law thought it was funny to turn you in: next case, PLEASE!"

Worldmariner | 04-19-2006 08:14 PM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonChakka I am interested in purchasing a half decent used side by side 12 ga. shotgun. I know with it only holding 2 shells it is not the best for defense, but I have wanted one for years. I have budgeted between 3 and 4 hundred. Is this reasonable? Should I be able to find a used side by side shotgun in that price range at a shop? I do not need it right away, it is just something I kind of always wanted to have, so no big hurry, I am willing to look around and bide my time waiting for the right one to be available. I have been checking the local dealers regularly, and have had no luck. Just today I went to a shop and the dealer had 2 used side by sides for 2 and 3 hundred respectively. They looked old and beat. (I am not that knowledgable, so am at their mercy, sort of.) He admitted to me that they weren't great guns and he thinks they would be only good for someone who likes to mess around with old shotguns. I passed them up because of this. I guess my question is do I stand a reasonable chance of finding one in that price range, or should I give up?
gunsamerica.com

Book | 04-24-2006 08:13 AM
Re: Yet another shotgun question :) 1 Attachment(s) Attachment 13761 Remington 870 Express Synthetic $300 New 7-round capacity matte black finish no-nonsense home defense in the City.

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