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MNeagle | 09-15-2009 10:44 AM
Home power plants project unveiled in Germany An ambitious project was unveiled in Germany on Wednesday to install mini gas-fired power plants in people's basements and produce as much electricity as two nuclear reactors in the coming years. The Hamburg-based renewable energy group Lichtblick and its automaker partner Volkswagen say the plants would produce not only heating and hot water but also electricity, with any excess power fed into the local grid. The two firms said the concept of "SchwarmStrom" (literally, "swarm power") would allow Germany to abandon nuclear and coal power stations sooner and help compensate for the volatility of renewables like wind and solar power. The plants also reduce harmful carbon dioxide emissions by up to 60 percent compared to conventional heat and electricity generation, they added in a joint statement. In the "coming years" the programme will install 100,000 of the mini plants, producing between them 2,000 megawatts of electricity, the same as two nuclear plants, Lichtblick and VW said. "SchwarmStrom is revolutionising power production in Germany. It clears the way for more renewable energy and an exit from power from nuclear and coal," the statement added. "The home power plants together form a huge, invisible power station that doesn't make the countryside ugly or require additional infrastructure." The project "is thoroughly feasible if the project reaches the forecast size," Claudia Kemfert of the DIW research institute told AFP. She added by way of comparison that "just getting rid of incandescent light bulbs would be the same as shutting down one nuclear reactor." Gas plants have an advantage over nuclear power stations in that the heat produced by the latter is wasted, the DIW energy expert said. But "the most ecological would be to feed these mini-plants with biogas" rather than natural gas, Kemfert noted. Lichtblick said another advantage of its plan was that tens of thousands of generators could be mobilised to meet a surge in demand or if drought made it hard to cool nuclear plants or a calm spell idled wind turbines. VW will contribute to the project by providing a gas-powered engine similar to one used in its popular Golf model. But LBBW auto analyst Stefan Sigrist told AFP: "This is mainly a marketing offensive. It is chic for VW to bask in a greener light." Although the generators are not a new concept, the project is novel in that Lichtblick would retain control over the plants after their installation. Households would pay around 5,000 euros (7,250 dollars) to have the generators set up along with an appropriate heating system. But individuals would then pay a lower price for heating and receive a modest "rent" for hosting the generator, as well as a bonus at the end of the year calculated on electricity revenues that resulted from Lichtblick's sales. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...cle=1&catnum=0

Golddust | 09-15-2009 10:49 AM
Re: Home power plants project unveiled in Germany Quote:
Originally Posted by MNeagle (Post 1921775) An ambitious project was unveiled in Germany on Wednesday to install mini gas-fired power plants in people's basements and produce as much electricity as two nuclear reactors in the coming years. The Hamburg-based renewable energy group Lichtblick and its automaker partner Volkswagen say the plants would produce not only heating and hot water but also electricity, with any excess power fed into the local grid. The two firms said the concept of "SchwarmStrom" (literally, "swarm power") would allow Germany to abandon nuclear and coal power stations sooner and help compensate for the volatility of renewables like wind and solar power. The plants also reduce harmful carbon dioxide emissions by up to 60 percent compared to conventional heat and electricity generation, they added in a joint statement. In the "coming years" the programme will install 100,000 of the mini plants, producing between them 2,000 megawatts of electricity, the same as two nuclear plants, Lichtblick and VW said. "SchwarmStrom is revolutionising power production in Germany. It clears the way for more renewable energy and an exit from power from nuclear and coal," the statement added. "The home power plants together form a huge, invisible power station that doesn't make the countryside ugly or require additional infrastructure." The project "is thoroughly feasible if the project reaches the forecast size," Claudia Kemfert of the DIW research institute told AFP. She added by way of comparison that "just getting rid of incandescent light bulbs would be the same as shutting down one nuclear reactor." Gas plants have an advantage over nuclear power stations in that the heat produced by the latter is wasted, the DIW energy expert said. But "the most ecological would be to feed these mini-plants with biogas" rather than natural gas, Kemfert noted. Lichtblick said another advantage of its plan was that tens of thousands of generators could be mobilised to meet a surge in demand or if drought made it hard to cool nuclear plants or a calm spell idled wind turbines. VW will contribute to the project by providing a gas-powered engine similar to one used in its popular Golf model. But LBBW auto analyst Stefan Sigrist told AFP: "This is mainly a marketing offensive. It is chic for VW to bask in a greener light." Although the generators are not a new concept, the project is novel in that Lichtblick would retain control over the plants after their installation. Households would pay around 5,000 euros (7,250 dollars) to have the generators set up along with an appropriate heating system. But individuals would then pay a lower price for heating and receive a modest "rent" for hosting the generator, as well as a bonus at the end of the year calculated on electricity revenues that resulted from Lichtblick's sales. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...cle=1&catnum=0
biogas Eat more beans!! :wink: Edit: Biogas is a cool way to go. It is has been proved to work as a fuel, Taken from landfills and from dairy farm waste.. As long as man throws out garbage and poops gas can be made.

RossL | 09-15-2009 11:07 AM
Re: Home power plants project unveiled in Germany Hmmm. I don't want a VW engine running a generator in my basement. What ever happened to the fuel cell technology to convert ngas directly to electricity ?

Golddust | 09-15-2009 11:09 AM
Re: Home power plants project unveiled in Germany Quote:
Originally Posted by RossL (Post 1921822) Hmmm. I don't want a VW engine running a generator in my basement. What ever happened to the fuel cell technology to convert ngas directly to electricity ?
The tech still costs too much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!

mick silver | 09-15-2009 11:33 AM
Re: Home power plants project unveiled in Germany Households would pay around 5,000 euros (7,250 dollars) to have the generators set up along with an appropriate heating system. But individuals would then pay a lower price for heating and receive a modest "rent" for hosting the generator, as well as a bonus at the end of the year calculated on electricity revenues that resulted from Lichtblick's sales.............. why would i have to pay for anything if i brought the generator

vector03 | 09-15-2009 05:26 PM
Re: Home power plants project unveiled in Germany Infrastructure for the grid still needs to be maintained and your single generator doesn't sound like it will produce enough to keep you in power on its own.

Jimfrancisco | 09-16-2009 12:52 PM
Re: Home power plants project unveiled in Germany This has been brought up stacks of times over the years, with Whispergens and the like - never found to be viable.

Jimfrancisco | 09-16-2009 12:59 PM
Re: Home power plants project unveiled in Germany Quote:
Originally Posted by mick silver (Post 1921886) Households would pay around 5,000 euros (7,250 dollars) to have the generators set up along with an appropriate heating system. But individuals would then pay a lower price for heating and receive a modest "rent" for hosting the generator, as well as a bonus at the end of the year calculated on electricity revenues that resulted from Lichtblick's sales.............. why would i have to pay for anything if i brought the generator
They pay you rent, and discounted power - they don't produce enough power to run the house, and why would you have the heat on in the summer when they also need electricity fed back to the grid? The two can't be separated, when it runs to produce electricity it also produces heat. It just gives them more control over the diversity required to feed some power back into the grid, as it's not economically feasible to run a nuclear station at tiny outputs, such as during the night. Which is why you pay more for your electricity all day and night, and all year. The economics to set up a system this large are staggering, though, which is why it has never been a success so far. Community CHP is feasible, but as yet no-one has managed to make household CHP feasible.

____hoot____ | 09-16-2009 05:11 PM
Re: Home power plants project unveiled in Germany Pumped storage works very very well to even out power demand and supply. All you need is a reservoiur on the top of a hill and one on the bottom and a pump linked to a generator/motor. Nice to have about 300' of drop. Allows you to run your power plants at full load all the time. Consumers Power has had one operateing here in Michigan for 35 years.

Jimfrancisco | 09-17-2009 04:08 PM
Re: Home power plants project unveiled in Germany You need a big hill and a couple of reservoirs, though! And they tend to mess with the fish population - the upper reservoir holds the fish, then they get killed going through the turbine(s). I visited one just a couple of months ago, and it's destroyed the local salmon population. So they put in a salmon pass, which held the salmon in a big pond until they could let them go down a big water-slide - problem being all the local fishermen found out where it was, and didn't even bother "fishing" - just throw in a net during the hours of darkness and pull out a net full of fish. It's now been mostly fixed with extra security, but eels and the like still get wiped out.

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