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- - Heirloom vs. Organic ? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=458119)

.375 | 03-23-2010 12:04 AM
Heirloom vs. Organic ? I am somewhat new to gardening. I think of heirloom seeds as being contrasted with hybrids. How does "organic" factor into a seed being heirloom or organic if at all? If a seed is organic does that make it heirloom too? In local stores I see organic seeds but I only find heirloom on websites. Thanks for your help! :bear_thumb:

Corbin Dallas | 03-23-2010 12:07 AM
Re: Heirloom vs. Organic ? I think organic just means that the seed came from plants grown organically. Hybrids could technically also be "organic".

silverblood | 03-23-2010 12:26 AM
Re: Heirloom vs. Organic ? I am not certain, but this is what I think it all means: "Organic" describes a method of agriculture that eschews the use of chemical pesticides and fertilizers on crops that are grown in soils which have been certified free of the same for some period of years, all as described by laws. Seeds from plants that are grown according to those organic laws or principles may be described as "organic" seeds. "Heirloom" is not a well-defined term. Seed Savers defines an heirloom "... as any garden plant that has a history of being passed down within a family, just like pieces of heirloom jewelry or furniture. Some companies have tried to create definitions based on date, such as anything older than 50 years." More at the Seed Saver site. Hybrids are plants produced by crossing different plant varieties. There are many different types of hybrids. Heirloom and hybrids are categorical opposites then. The former is passed down unchanged from plant generation to generation, whereas the latter is created by crossing hybrid or heirloom varieties. Of course, there are also natural hybrids, not intentionally created by people. Some hybrids are fertile and will reproduce; others have to be continually re-created from the original stocks. Seed and crops from any heirloom or hybrid source could be grown organically.

.375 | 03-23-2010 12:37 AM
Re: Heirloom vs. Organic ? That makes sense. Thanks silverblood!

skid | 03-23-2010 02:07 AM
Re: Heirloom vs. Organic ? Most heirlooms are worn out seeds that will give you disappointing crops. They are usually saved and passed on by small time amateurs, with no concept on the amount of plants they need to grow to prevent inbreeding and weak plants. Unless you are buying from a reputable company that actually performs seed trials, you will most likely be disappointed. I know I was. For a more indepth explanation, buy the book "Gardening when it counts" by Steve Soloman, who used to own a seed supply company. He gives very good gardening advice as well. Stick with the hybrids for the best germinating, uniform size plants, and buy from a company that does seed trials like Stokes. If they supply professional farmers, you can bet the seeds are good... and most offer organic choices as well Don't buy seeds from the garden center shelves either. God knows how old they are...

thorgrim | 03-23-2010 04:07 AM
Re: Heirloom vs. Organic ? Quote:
Originally Posted by skid (Post 2239335) Stick with the hybrids for the best germinating, uniform size plants, and buy from a company that does seed trials like Stokes. If they supply professional farmers, you can bet the seeds are good... and most offer organic choices as well
If SHTF you can no longer rely on hybrid seeds since they might not be available and the seed saved from hybrids might not produce plants even close to resembling the parents. Worse case the seed saved from hybrids could be sterile and not produce plants at all. Best case they would revert back to something similar to one of the stocks used for the hybrid seed but you have no idea of knowing what the plants attributes could be. I would recommend sticking with proven open pollinated varieties, some might not be old enough to be classified as heirloom, some will though.

diversified2 | 03-23-2010 04:18 AM
Re: Heirloom vs. Organic ? Quote:
Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 2239381) If SHTF you can no longer rely on hybrid seeds since they might not be available and the seed saved from hybrids might not produce plants even close to resembling the parents. Worse case the seed saved from hybrids could be sterile and not produce plants at all. Best case they would revert back to something similar to one of the stocks used for the hybrid seed but you have no idea of knowing what the plants attributes could be. I would recommend sticking with proven open pollinated varieties, some might not be old enough to be classified as heirloom, some will though.
A couple times I was blessed with volunteers from hybrid tomato plants that produced better than the originals and tasted better....go figure

millwright | 03-23-2010 06:55 AM
Re: Heirloom vs. Organic ? Bought all my seeds this year from Seed Savers Exchange. All Heirloom varieties. So far so good. Everything i planted has germinated,in a big way. One thing to keep in mind is cross polination. Two kinds of cucs in the same garden , will = bad things when it comes to harvesting seeds for next year. Same thing with squash ,corn etc.

RealJack | 03-23-2010 08:18 AM
Re: Heirloom vs. Organic ? I've been wondering about "organic" seeds. Why would it matter whether a seed was grown organically or not? I'm not eating the seed... The insignificant trace amounts of pesticide that might be on non organic seed would be long gone after growing into a fruiting plant. GMO? NO! Organic? Why should I care whether it was grown using conventional fertilizers? Sounds like advertising hype to me.

scholarcoon | 03-23-2010 08:31 AM
Re: Heirloom vs. Organic ? Quote:
Originally Posted by RealJack (Post 2239492) I've been wondering about "organic" seeds. Why would it matter whether a seed was grown organically or not? I'm not eating the seed... The insignificant trace amounts of pesticide that might be on non organic seed would be long gone after growing into a fruiting plant. GMO? NO! Organic? Why should I care whether it was grown using conventional fertilizers? Sounds like advertising hype to me.
No it doesn't matter much for seeds. All you're really doing by buying organic seed is supporting the organic principle with your money. They're usually a little bit more.

coopersmith | 03-23-2010 08:33 AM
Re: Heirloom vs. Organic ? Quote:
Originally Posted by RealJack (Post 2239492) I've been wondering about "organic" seeds. Why would it matter whether a seed was grown organically or not? I'm not eating the seed... The insignificant trace amounts of pesticide that might be on non organic seed would be long gone after growing into a fruiting plant. GMO? NO! Organic? Why should I care whether it was grown using conventional fertilizers? Sounds like advertising hype to me.
The silly USDA requires those that have decided to pay their ransom to 'grow organic' to use organic seed to be 'qualfiied' to label their food items 'organic'. Its a fooking scam.

RealJack | 03-23-2010 10:46 AM
Re: Heirloom vs. Organic ? Quote:
Originally Posted by coopersmith (Post 2239509) The silly USDA requires those that have decided to pay their ransom to 'grow organic' to use organic seed to be 'qualfiied' to label their food items 'organic'. Its a fooking scam.
"Its a fooking scam." "Sigh"!*'... Again... :bear_cry:

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