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Nuggethunter | 08-26-2006 12:00 AM
Lets all admit it. Lets all admit to ourselves that the forcast for the future of most major countries are headed for very hard times. The USA will be the standard bearer in this collapse and reconsolodation. But honestly , All must admit , were in for a world of hurt ; REGARDLESS , there will be much pain to endure . . Fiat and even PMs,barter will be a challenge . A network is a must. I pitty every fool living in any metropolis larger than 50k population. California will be a police state barnone. Sitting on a hill in alabama with a full homestead use to be enough. I dont feel that anymore. Its come to a point that it will take support and groups of support to survive. WERE ALL DEEP DOWN SCARED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AgAuGal | 08-26-2006 12:36 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. my neighbors don't seem to want to network. been in the same house almost 20 years but at most it is discussion about weather and the lawns. I suggest finding the post Ponce put up I think it was called Lights Out. Whoever wrote it I think was spot on regarding how to survive the scenario you guys, all of us fear. Wish there was a group I could hook up with the prepare but have not found anyone that even seems to be aware of the potential much less ready to plan. it is very scary with no family near by, even if they were they don't seem to desire to do any planning, not even PMs. Very frustrating.

Scorpio | 08-26-2006 12:40 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. AuAgGal, You have a bunch of hillbillies north of you, not far away, should you ever need it.

Ponce Cuba | 08-26-2006 12:59 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Where some people sees a door closing I see a door opening..... can't wait to see what's behind door number three.....good or bad.

Jasper | 08-26-2006 11:53 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponce Cuba (Post 341602) .... can't wait to see what's behind door number three....
Ponce - I can tell you in one word: CANNIBALS! When there ain't nothing else left to eat, folks start chowing down on each other. Of course, you could always turn the tables on them by putting up a big sign: INTRUDERS WILL BE EATEN! :haha:

Ponce Cuba | 08-26-2006 12:59 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. I know what you mean, a guy that I know in the big town told me "is ok we have plenty of deers in the woods and fishes in the lakes".....sure, I can see 50,000 people, each with a gun, going after one deer....... or the same numbers by the shore of the lakes with fishing poles :y: The more that I think about my position in this Micky Mouse town and how well prepared I am when compared to others makes me more nervous by the day...... sometimes I feel that all that I am doing is saving stuff for others :confused:

silvergonecrazy | 08-26-2006 01:11 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. i have always thought that--thats why i have gone underground basically in not telling my friends anymore now==i explained everything i needed to and now it is up to them to decide and act accordingly--i love my friends and family, but some will never get it and others won,t want to live--its going to be brutal--time is getting relatively short now--its time to worry about yourself--i did a have good friend change to my way slowly but surely and now that he knows what to look for he understands and is fully complying:bath:

silvergonecrazy | 08-26-2006 01:15 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. i cant find that lights out link--anybody

lhslancers | 08-26-2006 01:36 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponce Cuba (Post 341829) I know what you mean, a guy that I know in the big town told me "is ok we have plenty of deers in the woods and fishes in the lakes".....sure, I can see 50,000 people, each with a gun, going after one deer....... or the same numbers by the shore of the lakes with fishing poles :y: The more that I think about my position in this Micky Mouse town and how well prepared I am when compared to others makes me more nervous by the day...... sometimes I feel that all that I am doing is saving stuff for others :confused:
Underground tunnel.

Ponce Cuba | 08-26-2006 02:10 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. I know Lancer.......it goes 100 feet into the woods........and that's why I have a 25 lbs tank of propane under the house with two five gallons of gas next to it......all that I have to do before using my scape tunnel is to place a road flare on top of the propane tank. Only hope that the explosion wont blow my ass out the other end of the tunnel like a bullet out of a pistol barrel, have to think about that one some more :confused: I don't want to be known as the "flying Cuban" hahahahahahahah :D

lhslancers | 08-26-2006 02:28 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponce Cuba (Post 341870) I know Lancer.......it goes 100 feet into the woods........and that's why I have a 25 lbs tank of propane under the house with two five gallons of gas next to it......all that I have to do before using my scape tunnel is to place a road flare on top of the propane tank. Only hope that the explosion wont blow my ass out the other end of the tunnel like a bullet out of a pistol barrel, have to think about that one some more :confused: I don't want to be known as the "flying Cuban" hahahahahahahah :D
Love it.:coolbeer: :rofl:

GREENSILVERHORN | 08-26-2006 02:29 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnysideup (Post 341584) Yeah-i'm struggling with the planning for bad times-especially when I've two kids, but i'm gonna find some good guys to ride out the storm with. I know a few already. How about we all get together at a pre arranged place and set up a secure area? who's for it? a shtf community.
Designated meeting place is Ponce's house in ? Oregon. Of course all will have to live in the feudal position outside the walls of the castle.:clap2:

Silver Moon Rising | 08-26-2006 03:31 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by silvergonecrazy (Post 341838) i cant find that lights out link--anybody
Here's where Ponce mentions it on GIM: http://goldismoney.info/forums/showt...light=HalfFast The "Lights Out" story is by Halffast over on Survival Monkey. Here is the link to the story: http://www.survivalmonkey.com/Lights%20Out.htm

goddess | 08-26-2006 05:20 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Some thing has to happen before the fall elections, Bush needs things to stay in the republicans favor.

Silverstone | 08-26-2006 06:22 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by AgAuGal (Post 341596) my neighbors don't seem to want to network. been in the same house almost 20 years but at most it is discussion about weather and the lawns. I suggest finding the post Ponce put up I think it was called Lights Out. Whoever wrote it I think was spot on regarding how to survive the scenario you guys, all of us fear. Wish there was a group I could hook up with the prepare but have not found anyone that even seems to be aware of the potential much less ready to plan. it is very scary with no family near by, even if they were they don't seem to desire to do any planning, not even PMs. Very frustrating.
And you have some rednecks right in your own neighborhood, I agree, there will be more power in groups...if it gets that bad Ag, just email me, you are Midwest. We can always do things to help each other out. I am midwest as well and probably NOT that far from you.

Bugle | 08-26-2006 06:57 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Something to consider Utah is known for the large LDS population. The LDS church preaches preparedness encouraging all the members to have a couple years food supply. The church has a sideline business of suppling the food. For money of course. In southern Idaho there also is a large percentage of LDS. So there is a reasonably well prepared population of people with at least some organization and I'm sure a more than a few stipulations for membership. All in an area that is well away from any large metro areas littered with large underground storage warehouses filled with spuds. Sure you can have food but first circumcision. HT mentions that a protection racket can be a profitable enterprise. Not my primary plan but maybe plan B or C. Ponce the propane tank will most likely vent before it BLEVE's( boiling-liquid-expanding-vapor-explosion). We regularly find intact propane tanks in the garage after structure fires. They are designed to vent off the vapor before they burst. Even the 1500 gallon tanks vent off the boiling vapor. Good thing for us fireguys. Look up BLEVE in wikipedia. You need to disable the relief valve and light the gasoline on fire first to insure a good BOOM. Go out in the woodsthis fall after the snow flies and set a flare on top of a propane tank. I'll bet you just end up wasting a flare. Ponce I never said goodbye I knew you'd be back. GIM is like the hotel California you can checkout but...you can never leave.

Ponce Cuba | 08-26-2006 07:23 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Thanks Buggle, not not only will I have to learn how to disable the vent in the propane tank but also going to burried it at least two feet under in order to insure a KABOOOOOOOOOOOM, with the two five gallons of gasoline on top. To make triple sure Ill pour some cement at the mouth or the intake of the tank once that I place it in the hole in the ground...... Like I like to say " To be ready is not".. Ponce.......... now you know why I say that.

Mercury Rising | 08-26-2006 07:50 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Yeeeeee Haw!!!!! Ponce..dont rent out my cabin! for the love of god man!:musicus:

Bugle | 08-26-2006 08:25 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Ponce heat rises. The ground will insulate the tank from the fire above it. Put the gasoline and the propane on an overstuffed couch puncture the gas cans and light it up with the relief valve jammed somehow.

Ponce Cuba | 08-26-2006 09:06 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Buggle? what I have now is a two inch metal pipe that is flush with my living room floor going down and resting on top of the propane tank..... after I place it under ground then all that I have to do is to extend the metal pipe by two more feet........ from the living room all that I have to do is to light the flare and hold in the pipe and let go.......and run like a bat out of hell.

Unclad Lad | 08-27-2006 01:01 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
California will be a police state bar none.
California, outside of SF, Sac, and the LA-San Diego megalopolis, is quite rural, if not outright wilderness. 100 miles from Death Valley it snows 12 feet deep every winter, on Mt. Whitney. There's an awful lot of ground to police here. The focus will be on preventing chaos in the coastal cities, and on maintaining food production in the Central Valley-and the second may solve the first as farming labor camps are set up from Redding to Bakersfield. But the rest of the state? There won't be enough manpower to patrol it. A lot of the rural counties have well-armed citizens with "will certainly issue" Sheriffs. If you ever pass through the state, skip 5 and 99; they're boring drives anyway. Take 395, and you'll see what I mean. Sure, it's not Idaho, but on the plus side, it's not Idaho. :aetsch:

Civilutionary | 08-28-2006 12:29 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. This is all so funny to me--"survivor prep". Am I the only one around here that realizes the horrible ramifications that await Americans in a state of Martial Law? Am I the only one around here that realizes the absolute terror, anarchy and nihilism that will not be contained without the Constitution? Exactly what are we "preparing to survive"? Survive the nightmare of WWIII, wake up in the NWO?! Ain't no coming back from Martial Law--America will be finished. And I'd rather die in the camps than live in the NWO. So what is it that you're all trying to survive?

AMforPM | 08-28-2006 12:42 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Civil, I think the NWO is already failing. Getting booted out of S America, won't run without oil, cannot defeat guerrillas in the ME. The NWO is failing in front of our eyes. Its death agony is ugly, and killing many, but it is not where human destiny is headed. It is a tatty old evil dream of the previous age. Eventually even its last nutty defenders, like shrub, will get more pragmatic. Elites have grandchildren too.

Ponce Cuba | 08-28-2006 12:44 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Civi? I don't know about the rest of them but to me is only as to how I play the game.......

Wyldwil | 08-28-2006 01:00 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Civilutionary....methinks you need a new avatar...

Civilutionary | 08-28-2006 01:11 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyldwil (Post 342764) Civilutionary....methinks you need a new avatar...
Nah bro, I don't need a new avatar. :albertein The Patriot has his power as long as the Constitution is in force. The rifles and pistols of militia groups will not be able to defeat the vast military apparatus of the beast. They've got lists and dossiers--they're coming for the resistors FIRST. Yeah, the insurgents are giving our military hell in Iraq and Afghanistan. But like I said, can anybody say...REX-84? As a Patriot, I would rather die than live in the NWO. That's the only alternative. Once Martial Law is declared, it is over. It's going to be easy to locate gun owners during the disarmament phase because they're registered. When they come for you when you play George Washington, see if you can shoot down their Apaches, Cobra, Hind-D or Kamov gunships with your rifle, unless you have a stockpile of Stingers and RPGs...:hahaha: Ya'll need to get a clue. This won't be "Red Dawn". The America we live in now? This is as good as it's going to get. Even that is fleeting.

Civilutionary | 08-28-2006 01:34 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM (Post 342751) Civil, I think the NWO is already failing. Getting booted out of S America, won't run without oil, cannot defeat guerrillas in the ME. The NWO is failing in front of our eyes. Its death agony is ugly, and killing many, but it is not where human destiny is headed. It is a tatty old evil dream of the previous age. Eventually even its last nutty defenders, like shrub, will get more pragmatic. Elites have grandchildren too.
Huh? The NWO is failing? Everything is running right on schedule and going according to script. These people aren't Patriots, they don't care about America or Americans or national autonomy. They know we won't defeat the guerrillas [hey, our Secretary of State and former National Security Advisor is a Soviet expert, you don't think she had a clue what we would face in Afghanistan?], they know that the age of nations must come to an end. Using the blood of Patriots to increase their treasures is part of the plan but SACRIFICING the Patriots is the plan, too. Inadequate U.S. personnel will make it easy to deploy U.N. foreign troops when TSHTF. They couldn't have written a better script. Yes, the Elite do have grandchildren, too, and they're being groomed to take their places. These people call themselves "Illuminati"...they believe that they get their supernatural power and intelligence from a supernatural force. Their power and intelligence is immense, surely they are wise enough to have all their bases covered. But don't think for one second because the insurgency aren't being defeated, this is a wrinkle in their Plan.

Civilutionary | 08-28-2006 01:40 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 343088) BTW, if a helicopter gets low enough to the ground to launch surveyor's tape or monofilament line into the rotor(s) by bow and arrow, model rocket, or other means they drop like a stone.
Yeah, I'll try that. Make sure my bow and arrow connects before a hellfire missile is fired...:smokin:

Civilutionary | 08-28-2006 01:53 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 343093) Yeah, I guess we'll find out whose god is more powerful. And there will be many, many more 'wrinkles' in their 'plan' because each and every one of us has free agency and each and every one of us have absolute, total control over our own space and time in the here and now (unless one takes a defeatist approach as you're suggesting). If what you're posting is your 'vision' then that is precisely what you will get.
See, why you gotta go there?! I know whose God is more powerful, don't get it twisted. You call me a "defeatist"? No, I'm not underestimating my enemy. You count the cost. You define your parameters. You're absolutely right, we have free agency and total control here and now. What free agency and total control will you have when the President has seized ALL control by executive order? More fake terror, world war, and national emergencies are what we are all going to get whether we want it or not. You call that a "defeatist approach". Why? Because I know the NWO will be a reality one day and a Civilutionary War will not put it off? But if you are sure that you can defeat the U.N. foreign troops during disarmament, just tell me on which dotted line to sign my name.

Civilutionary | 08-28-2006 02:01 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 343095) Apparently your god is a weak god incapable of miracles. My God shows me miracles every day, all of which I am very, very grateful for.
No, my God told me that HE would defeat these forces at a specific point in time. HE told me that the battle was His. HE told me that they would do to me what they did to Him, kill me. HE told me that my testimony of Him is the victory that I have over them. HE did not tell me to be a Braveheart, HE told me to endure tribulation. I know tribulation is coming. I am prepared to endure it, not fight my way out of it in futility. If this is your definition of a "defeatist", I will be that. One more stone can't hurt.

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REV127 | 08-28-2006 02:20 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Here I go again... it's for posterity. *sighs* You don't fight the Beast by shooting the footsoldiers, anti-personnel warfare is obsolete because in the 21st century life is cheap. There will always be another knuckleheaded 18 or 19 year old to fill the shoes of the last one you dropped. The way you fight a technologically and numerically superior opponent is the same way an idiot wins an arguement, drag them down to your level and beat them with experience. You accomplish this by dammaging/destroying valuable assets. Helicopters are scary, but they aren't hard to hide from. Thermal imaging is the single biggest advantage the opposing force will have. Don't move around at night and you have as good a chance of spotting them as they have of spotting you. If you have to move around at night, as noted there are ways to hide. What's more important is knowing where the pilot hangs out when he isn't flying and where they park the helicopter. Find the pilot on the ground, look him square in the back and shoot him before he knows what hit him. Likewise dammage the engine, any thermal imaging equipment, props and other critical pieces of hardware. Don't even worry about a big bold raid or complete destruction, just give them a big repair bill and a spare parts shortage. Fuel and ammo dumps are worth considering, too. If you insist on shooting the go-fors at least be halfway intelligent about it and do it like the pilots. Or trade in your poodleshooter for a rifle with some long legs and shoot one enemy soldier a day, week or month as conditions allow. Don't get cute about it, hold off a distance either alone or with a very small group of riflemen and let them have one volley before you disappear. Let's say you have three riflemen that are worth a darn in your area. Each of you, since you're only mediocre, manages to kill from a distance one enemy soldier per week, with two weeks of vacation because hey, we're Americans. That's 150 enemy personell dropped per year, from three guys. That's one company per year the enemy has to replace, just in your location. Do this stuff and you will effectually immobilize your enemy. Then you can have fun with fire and pool chemicals or the poor man's weapon of mass destruction of your choice. Heck, cut off the supply of food and spare parts. You can make life so miserable for them that by the time those gung ho 18 and 19 year olds hit 25 they say "screw you guys, I'm going home!" and walk off the field. Don't make yourself a target. Those hellfires are real impressive, so are Spectre gunships, but they're not cheap. Don't give them a worthwhile target, don't operate in groups of more than a 3 or 4. Sure, they'll drop some missiles and what not at first, for "shock and awe," but they can't afford to keep it up all the time. Make them launch the $100,000 missile at the proverbial $10 tent to hit a camel in the ass. Rig fake campsites with fake camp fires and warm blow-up dolls set to go off on times to attract attention. Every aircraft you have looking in the wrong direction is one less looking at you. All this defeatism is not reality. It is so far from reality it isn't even funny. The Finns are the only people in the entire world to ever repel a fullscale invasion of the Red Army. They did it twice in a row. They had knives, rifles, molotov cocktails and horses against tanks, fighters, bombers, artillery all wielded by an army 1/3 the size of the entire Finnish population. The Soviets got mauled entirely out of proportion to the disposition of forces. My family fought in those wars, drove them back in the Karellian Offensive. You win those scenarios not through defeatist banter about dying here or there or the futility of this or that but by fighting back, with brains and guts. Some people spend so much time worrying about how to be "hard" and "tactical" that they forget how to win fights.

Civilutionary | 08-28-2006 02:35 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 343116) Here I go again... it's for posterity. *sighs* You don't fight the Beast by shooting the footsoldiers, anti-personnel warfare is obsolete because in the 21st century life is cheap. There will always be another knuckleheaded 18 or 19 year old to fill the shoes of the last one you dropped. The way you fight a technologically and numerically superior opponent is the same way an idiot wins an arguement, drag them down to your level and beat them with experience. You accomplish this by dammaging/destroying valuable assets. Helicopters are scary, but they aren't hard to hide from. Thermal imaging is the single biggest advantage the opposing force will have. Don't move around at night and you have as good a chance of spotting them as they have of spotting you. If you have to move around at night, as noted there are ways to hide. What's more important is knowing where the pilot hangs out when he isn't flying and where they park the helicopter. Find the pilot on the ground, look him square in the back and shoot him before he knows what hit him. Likewise dammage the engine, any thermal imaging equipment, props and other critical pieces of hardware. Don't even worry about a big bold raid or complete destruction, just give them a big repair bill and a spare parts shortage. Fuel and ammo dumps are worth considering, too. If you insist on shooting the go-fors at least be halfway intelligent about it and do it like the pilots. Or trade in your poodleshooter for a rifle with some long legs and shoot one enemy soldier a day, week or month as conditions allow. Don't get cute about it, hold off a distance either alone or with a very small group of riflemen and let them have one volley before you disappear. Let's say you have three riflemen that are worth a darn in your area. Each of you, since you're only mediocre, manages to kill from a distance one enemy soldier per week, with two weeks of vacation because hey, we're Americans. That's 150 enemy personell dropped per year, from three guys. That's one company per year the enemy has to replace, just in your location. Do this stuff and you will effectually immobilize your enemy. Then you can have fun with fire and pool chemicals or the poor man's weapon of mass destruction of your choice. Heck, cut off the supply of food and spare parts. You can make life so miserable for them that by the time those gung ho 18 and 19 year olds hit 25 they say "screw you guys, I'm going home!" and walk off the field. Don't make yourself a target. Those hellfires are real impressive, so are Spectre gunships, but they're not cheap. Don't give them a worthwhile target, don't operate in groups of more than a 3 or 4. Sure, they'll drop some missiles and what not at first, for "shock and awe," but they can't afford to keep it up all the time. Make them launch the $100,000 missile at the proverbial $10 tent to hit a camel in the ass. Rig fake campsites with fake camp fires and warm blow-up dolls set to go off on times to attract attention. Every aircraft you have looking in the wrong direction is one less looking at you. All this defeatism is not reality. It is so far from reality it isn't even funny. The Finns are the only people in the entire world to ever repel a fullscale invasion of the Red Army. They did it twice in a row. They had knives, rifles, molotov cocktails and horses against tanks, fighters, bombers, artillery all wielded by an army 1/3 the size of the entire Finnish population. The Soviets got mauled entirely out of proportion to the disposition of forces. My family fought in those wars, drove them back in the Karellian Offensive. You win those scenarios not through defeatist banter about dying here or there or the futility of this or that but by fighting back, with brains and guts. Some people spend so much time worrying about how to be "hard" and "tactical" that they forget how to win fights.
Well then...see you in the history books, pal.

REV127 | 08-28-2006 02:50 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. It is a shame the irony of that statement will be lost, but I got a chuckle. There's at least a couple do-ers as opposed to talkers I'm aware of on this board alone so I'm sure we'll be hearing about a lot of people when the rubber meets the road. There's always something anyone can do, or where there's a will there's a way. In as much as it by rights should be the Law of the Land and we'd be much better off if our "leadership" were held to a standard I do agree that the Constitution is a good thing. Upon close examination however it reveals itself as a flawed document. A chief example of this is that there is no clear method defined for a state to withdraw its membership from the Union, this right here tips you off that it is a trap. After all, when has anyone ever been free in America? If our leaders are elected then why all the dynasties especially considering we generally weren't too happy with the particular families the first time around. It's a little academic to me anyway, I have a greater allegiance to Dixie than I do to the Federal Government. My entire region has been invaded and annexed by a foreign power for a century and a half. It sort of puts things in perspective.

wallew | 08-28-2006 02:58 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. I don't think we all have a LOT to worry about. I was watching 'Future Weapons' on the Military channel yesterday. Now you need to realize that if it's ON the Military channel it's no longer classified, because hey, they ARE gonna run a program that everyone has access to. So, realize that what they show you is out of date to begin with. One of the first things they showed was the armed Predator drone plane. Granted, the one they showed ONLY carried ONE missle, but as time goes on, I'd bet a dollar to donuts that the payload will increase. Also realize that the Predator has refueling capabilities so it can linger in an area for several days. The SECOND most interesting arms were two different 'artillery' tracked vehicles. The first was made by Germany that could fire ten rounds per minute. And with the computer controlling everything, it can drop all ten rounds on the target at the same time. Basically by manipulating the trajectory of the first round to the last. They all arrive at the same time. BUT, the German version required that ONE PERSON be involved by sticking in the powder charge. SO there was still human interaction with the machine. THE OTHER tracked artillery unit was made here in the US and it requires NO human interaction, other than loading all the types of shells (into an automated loading unit with the fuse in place of course - same as the German unit) and all type of charges (in an automated unit), this baby was completely automatic. It required NO HUMAN interaction. They first said the unit fired SIX rounds per minute, but later said it fired ten rounds per minute. WHILE I do admit, the biggest problem will be keeping this baby fed, as it only holds about thirty charges and about forty types of shells, at tens rounds a minute, it would be 'runnin' on empty' in about five minutes or less. And like it's German counterpart, it too could drop all it's shells on one target all at the same time by simply altering the trajectory. So, we have airplanes capable of delivering payload onto a target and the only interaction required is the pilot on the joystick. That person could be replaced by a computer really easily. Then we have an artillery peice that can deliver ten rounds per minute onto a target WITHOUT any human intervention what so ever. Seems to me we are but a few years away from the 'Terminator' scenario where the machines decide it's time to take over. The really scary part is that we also seem to be producing all the components and parts to assemble usable munitions in highly automated factories as well. So, it looks like us homo sapiens will become an 'unnecessary' part of the loop. Again, if that's what has been declassified, then exactly WHAT is current technology capable of? WELCOME TO THE FUTURE. BOOM. You're dead. And you never saw or heard it coming.

REV127 | 08-28-2006 03:13 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. I currently work in technology so I think about the Terminator angle from time to time. I love computers and automation, but I feel the desire to build sentient machines or even particularly advanced AI's that aren't actually sentient but behave similarly is very stupid. We don't want competition, we want tools. The scenario that worries me the most though isn't Terminator. A plane is a plane and a tank is a tank, it doesn't matter who is driving. The one that gets me is nanotechnology, first off because your body can't naturally clear nanomaterials and many if not all are carcinogenic or otherwise very harmful so there are enormous environmental concerns, but even worse is grey or black goo. If you haven't heard of it that's the concept of nano-scale machines designed to break down organic matter either accidentally(grey) or deliberately(black) being set free upon the face of the Earth to wreak destruction on all life.

Bugle | 08-28-2006 04:09 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Just in time distribution and three day supply in the food pipeline dictates that the easiest method to subdue the population is starvation ala "lights out". Kind of Ironic too, the most spoiled obese society ever known starving in their Mc Mansions surrounded by all their toys and modern conveniences. Everything is left intact and only the people with food supplies don't end up in the concentration camps (cities) waiting for FEMA to supply everything. Just wait 90-120 days and mop up any unaccounted for heat signatures. Quote: Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan Apparently your god is a weak god incapable of miracles. My God shows me miracles every day, all of which I am very, very grateful for. No, my God told me that HE would defeat these forces at a specific point in time. HE told me that the battle was His. HE told me that they would do to me what they did to Him, kill me. HE told me that my testimony of Him is the victory that I have over them. HE did not tell me to be a Braveheart, HE told me to endure tribulation. I know tribulation is coming. I am prepared to endure it, not fight my way out of it in futility. If this is your definition of a "defeatist", I will be that. One more stone can't hurt. 1 Hour Ago 10:53 AM You are both right here. We are to be witnesses to Him and imitate Him. Your words dictate your realities ( as a man thinks ((says to himself)) so is he ) Jesus never allowed defeat in His speach and was immune to persecution untill He surrendered. One word would have stopped everything.

WillTheSHTF? | 08-28-2006 04:26 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Bugle is right. :yippee:

Green Mountain Boy | 08-28-2006 04:40 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 343146) I currently work in technology so I think about the Terminator angle from time to time. I love computers and automation, but I feel the desire to build sentient machines or even particularly advanced AI's that aren't actually sentient but behave similarly is very stupid. We don't want competition, we want tools. The scenario that worries me the most though isn't Terminator. A plane is a plane and a tank is a tank, it doesn't matter who is driving. The one that gets me is nanotechnology, first off because your body can't naturally clear nanomaterials and many if not all are carcinogenic or otherwise very harmful so there are enormous environmental concerns, but even worse is grey or black goo. If you haven't heard of it that's the concept of nano-scale machines designed to break down organic matter either accidentally(grey) or deliberately(black) being set free upon the face of the Earth to wreak destruction on all life.
Rev, have you read Prey by Michael Crichton?

Civilutionary | 08-28-2006 05:02 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiat Mutiny (Post 343134) Civil, I'm sure the NWO loves your types. You aren't some unaware person obsessed with the latest football game or electronic device. You appear to be aware of whats going on yet willingly go along with it, an Uncle Tom of sorts. Either that or a paid plant to discourage discussion and resistance tactics. I'm going to go with the latter. You think the government is all powerful? Then why can't they stop drug use? There has been a war on drugs since the early 1980's and drug use has increased. They can't solve murders, they can't stop crime. They can't even stop criminals in prisons from getting drugs. I'd say being in prison is more strict than any martial law the government can summon. If criminals in prisons can go about their criminal behavior under the watchful eye of cameras and officers, I think we out in the general public can initiate an organized resistance to those imposing martial law. Look at how well the Iraqi's are resisting. You don't charge in head first against a blackhawk helicopter, you use other methods, none that I'm going to list or encourage on this forum. I'm not currently at war with the government. I don't like what they are doing and I try to educate others to bring about peaceful change. When any entity declares war on me, I will go from there. I'm not just going to lay down and sigh, like you are advocating. Go find a nice republican forum where people will all nod their heads in unison to what you are suggesting.
"Paid plant to discourage discussion?" :haha: I've never been accused of THAT before! :haha: But seriously, let me clarify this thing for you Braveheart-types. I wouldn't hesitate to blow your mothaluvin' head clean off your shoulders to protect my wife and children. But I will not fight in banker wars for the FED or oil or think that the NWO will not materialize when this country is taken over by executive order. On the contrary, they love your types: you think that your altruism will defeat them, that you stand a chance...you will not, not during the takeover. For instance: if China suddenly adopted the American doctrine of pre-emptive warfare, and decided that Bush was a tyrant and democracy an evil form of government, and launched an invasion to "liberate" us, I would be on the front lines with my M-16 THEN. But a foreign invasion to repel in defense of the Constitution and our countrymen is a far cry from Martial Law and the pandemonium asociated with it. You just don't get it, do you? You're talking about "going from there" when an enemy declares war on you. What power or legality will you have to fight when YOUR PRESIDENT suspends the Constitution and all its amendments? You will have none and will face a military machine stronger than your little arsenal when you resist. "Lay down and sigh?" No. Run underground. Familiar with Albert Pike? If you are, the third world war he outlined (which we are in the initial phase of according to plan) would unleash nihilism and anarchy so horrible so as to terrify and de-populate humanity. This won't be just about political autonomy, but a world-wide social revolution designed to destroy this age of religious secularism and national sovereignty so that a NWO can arise. Yeah dude, that's exactly what I'm getting paid NOT to discuss, right? I see the NWO conspiracy from a biblical perspective. But most see it in black and white and money-green. This isn't a war between flesh and blood, but between the spiritual forces of, yes, good and evil. See, I don't have any hope that politicians, bankers, or corporations will change for good. I have no hope that there will never be abortions of children or wars for profit, that there will never be injustice or oppression. I have no hope that my soul will find comfort in this world in any continuing city. The hope for my soul is in eternity in the next world, so I won't take up arms to defend my place at the banker's trough. I don't think that government is all-powerful but I do believe that they are HIGHLY involved in the ancient mysteries of sun worship, to which they have erected this very country. Surely, you are wise enough to understand that IF they do achieve a NWO, those Patriots and dissenters had to have been removed completely? See, I know what's coming AFTER the ashes have settled. And I'd rather die than live in that world or an America where the Constitution is null and void. Godspeed with your Revolution, and try not to get yourself killed.

Civilutionary | 08-28-2006 05:21 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiat Mutiny (Post 343134) Civil, I'm sure the NWO loves your types. You aren't some unaware person obsessed with the latest football game or electronic device. You appear to be aware of whats going on yet willingly go along with it, an Uncle Tom of sorts.
BTW--Your user name is "Fiat Mutiny". That's interesting...have you been strong enough, militant enough, revolutionary enough to make sure that every paycheck you cash yields you gold and silver coin only? You know what they say about people who live in glass houses... If you use FRNs in any way, shape or form, you are going along with it. Point is, some things are just beyond our control. Or maybe I should just call you...Uncle Tom? :wink:

Fiat Mutiny | 08-28-2006 08:16 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. I think there is hope for you grasshopper, but you seem to be straddling the fence. BTW, a total fiat mutiny would be difficult to achieve for me at the moment, but I try. You say resistance is futile, now you talk of going underground. Going underground is precisely what I would advocate in a martial law scenario. You say you would rather die than be in a martial law society. Are you planning on killing yourself the moment it happens? I think many people would rather be dead than under martial law, but what method of death do you prefer? They aren't going to kill you unless you resist. You say you won't resist because you can never win. Therefore, you will live on, under the tyrany of martial law. You will not get your wish for death unless you resist. I'm assuming you wouldn't committ suicide because of your religious beliefs. True warriors go down fighting, not whimpering. I'm no braveheart type, just a guy that will defend himself and family if required. Hey, I might even die day 1 if anarchy breaks out, but it's not going to be for lack of trying. By the way, civil, what are you doing wasting your time reading this forum, which is generally populated by those trying to preserve themselves, either economically or through survival tips? You have even been reading the survival subsection. Surely, you must be interested in survivalism. That or as I said, a paid plant to discourage discussion or spy on the enemy (the resistance). I'm aware that we are currently on the NWO timeline and they are winning, but there are cracks in the foundation. Information being shared on the internet is one of those cracks. You and your kind are the mortar to attempt to seal those cracks. If I have paraphrased you incorrectly I apologize. BTW, who here is advocating altruism? Certainly not me. I'm not going to fight in their for-profit wars either. I'm also not going to engage in a one man war against the system, it's just not the rational thing to do and it will not be fruitful. I am however, going to prepare for the worst and hope for the best and never submit.

keehah | 08-28-2006 08:51 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
You think the government is all powerful? Then why can't they stop drug use?
Not a good example. I think Americian illegal drug use is going right to any new orderer's plan. Launders money for special ops and helps keep sheeple being sheeple. http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...ugs/index.html

southfork | 08-28-2006 08:55 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. You don't want to die, I almost did, you never get over it, at some point dying is easy, it's living that's hard. Most people who check out early are cowards, it's the easy way out, I'll stay and fight to the end for my family.

thorgrim | 08-28-2006 08:56 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiat Mutiny By the way, civil, what are you doing wasting your time reading this forum, which is generally populated by those trying to preserve themselves, either economically or through survival tips? You have even been reading the survival subsection. Surely, you must be interested in survivalism. That or as I said, a paid plant to discourage discussion or spy on the enemy (the resistance).
Well said Fiat. Civil, since you profess to know what is going to happen and how hopeless it all is, why don't you let us in on the correct course of action we should take to prepare for the inevitable then. Otherwise don't bother posting more of this garbage as it is not teaching me anything except that you have a defeatist attitude.

thorgrim | 08-28-2006 09:06 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by southfork Most people who check out early are cowards, it's the easy way out, I'll stay and fight to the end for my family.
Same here. It is better to die standing then live on your knees.

Ponce Cuba | 08-28-2006 09:20 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Anyway, today I signed my Last Will and Testament...... I just wated to make sure the government would get nothing from me. Fifty % going into a Palestinian trust funds with special instructions that it should go for a college education for the kids of those who die fighting the Zionists, also $50,000 to my two cats :clap2: and the rest to my X. While I know that I should live to be 132 years of age you can never really tell as to what is on the other side of door number three......"To be ready is not"... Ponce........... just in case :coolbeer:

Civilutionary | 08-28-2006 11:08 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiat Mutiny (Post 343316) I think there is hope for you grasshopper, but you seem to be straddling the fence. BTW, a total fiat mutiny would be difficult to achieve for me at the moment, but I try. You say resistance is futile, now you talk of going underground. Going underground is precisely what I would advocate in a martial law scenario. You say you would rather die than be in a martial law society. Are you planning on killing yourself the moment it happens? I think many people would rather be dead than under martial law, but what method of death do you prefer? They aren't going to kill you unless you resist. You say you won't resist because you can never win. Therefore, you will live on, under the tyrany of martial law. You will not get your wish for death unless you resist. I'm assuming you wouldn't committ suicide because of your religious beliefs. True warriors go down fighting, not whimpering. I'm no braveheart type, just a guy that will defend himself and family if required. Hey, I might even die day 1 if anarchy breaks out, but it's not going to be for lack of trying. By the way, civil, what are you doing wasting your time reading this forum, which is generally populated by those trying to preserve themselves, either economically or through survival tips? You have even been reading the survival subsection. Surely, you must be interested in survivalism. That or as I said, a paid plant to discourage discussion or spy on the enemy (the resistance). I'm aware that we are currently on the NWO timeline and they are winning, but there are cracks in the foundation. Information being shared on the internet is one of those cracks. You and your kind are the mortar to attempt to seal those cracks. If I have paraphrased you incorrectly I apologize. BTW, who here is advocating altruism? Certainly not me. I'm not going to fight in their for-profit wars either. I'm also not going to engage in a one man war against the system, it's just not the rational thing to do and it will not be fruitful. I am however, going to prepare for the worst and hope for the best and never submit.
Bingo. That's what I've been saying all along but you think that armed resistance is the only way for one to resist so you think that I'm just going to lay down and sigh. Did I say resistance was futile or did I say trying to "survive" against U.N. troops by armed resistance is futile? Did I say that I was going to commit suicide or did I say I'd rather die in the camps? Saying I'd rather die in the camps pre-supposes that I will resist the gutting of the Constitution. Perhaps, you need to read more carefully. Why am I here wasting my time? I'm not wasting my time. To you I'm wasting my time because the questions I have asked and the points I have raised don't sit well with your reasoning. I don't even know why we're clashing, we think along the same lines--you've just misinterpreted my intentions. I have always said that it's either underground, the camps, or death because I DON'T want to live in the NWO. So you tell me if that constitutes straddling the fence. BTW--and quit with the false accusations, it's getting played.

demosfen | 08-28-2006 11:35 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponce Cuba (Post 343376) Fifty % going into a Palestinian trust funds with special instructions that it should go for a college education for the kids of those who die fighting the Zionists
What did they do to you that you want their children schooled at a government-approved brainwashing facility? I am 30 years old and am still recovering from college education; probably will never recover in full. It really messes your mind up :frown: Children should not be held responsible for their parents' actions.

Civilutionary | 08-28-2006 11:59 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 343355) Well said Fiat. Civil, since you profess to know what is going to happen and how hopeless it all is, why don't you let us in on the correct course of action we should take to prepare for the inevitable then. Otherwise don't bother posting more of this garbage as it is not teaching me anything except that you have a defeatist attitude.
Dude, I don't care what I'm not teaching you. There are plenty of people on this forum to grease your wheels, don't patronize me with that 'what should we do nonsense'. Ya'll think that this is going to be a movie and it's not...going out in a blaze of glory. How Hollywood. Is that your course of action? Most of you do not see the big picture, you think that you can fight your way out of this. My point has been...when Martial Law is declared and the Contitution suspended and all of its amendments, what power or legality will you have to fight? Will you be able to defeat the military might of the Russians, Chinese, Germans, and U.N. soldiers? This is going RIGHT over your heads. This site is called Gold is Money, most have come here out of the understanding that the FED is an illegal, unconstitutional fraud. This cabal has already defeated America. You don't have the power to overcome them in this time, but you will be able to defeat them when they foreclose on this whole country with the iron fist of a presidential dictator by executive order? On the contrary, that Clint Eastwood approach you seem to have is the garbage that needs to be taken to the trash. How to survive Martial Law is of the utmost importance, not protecting our own yards by sniping at looters. Anybody worth their credit score knows that you won't have rights to property during Martial Law, not even to travel to the next city. Nah dude, teach me...what are you going to do when the Constitution is no more?

Civilutionary | 08-29-2006 12:06 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiat Mutiny (Post 343529) Perhaps you could enlighten me on what you are trying to accomplish with your posts on this thread? So you are going underground if you get the chance? Exactly what are you going to do once you go underground? The posters at the beginning of the post were talking about preparing for societal breakdown, whether it be economic, natural, or military/governmental imposed. They were suggesting networking and acquiring firearms. By the way, you can acquire firearms without ending up on a list. These are general preparation strategies. All these would be useful in the event of martial law and needing to go underground. The government may attempt to control the people through food rationing. Knowing how to grow your own or find your own would be useful. Having neighbors to barter with would also be useful, i.e. village type society interactions. You came in and blasted them for their discussion. They obviously realize that society isn't going to be what it is now. That we may be kicking around in the dirt under the watchful eye of the NWO or whatever. They aren't saying, "Yeah, after the economy collapses meet me at Starbucks and we'll have a Mocha Latte." Hey if I go to the camps, I'd rather escape than die in them. They are going to have a hard time getting me there in the first place. You are trying to have things both ways. You are going "underground" & resisting the NWO, but mocking those of us who are actually planning ahead for "horrible" times. To answer your question, "What is it that you all are trying to survive?" I'm trying to gather skills and assets to live comfortably and protect my family and pets from whatever situation comes my way. I'm going to try to be as independent as possible, so when the NWO or the current administration tries to control me, I won't be so easily swayed with a food rationing card. When they turn off the water to kill a certain percentage of the population, I'll still have clean water. And when the thirsty starving aggressive neighbor comes knocking, he will either run off or get shot. I think we can work together when you stock belittling people for doing the most prudent thing known to man, preparation. Why is it that you are encouraging people not to engage in survival prep?
No, Fiat, you're belittling me: "paid plant", "Uncle Tom", "defeatist" all because I asked how will you "prepare to survive" an America under Martial Law? It's a question that needs to be raised. I never said that we can't network but don't you understand the restriction Martial Law will put us under? Do I WANT to end up in a camp? Do I not have children, too? What gave you the impression that I don't want to survive and that I am against survival prep, per se?

wallew | 08-29-2006 12:39 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Civil, Let's try a little bit of history for a second, OK? How many people in the Colonies supported King George? 90%, that's how many. How many people supported the Revolutionary War? 10%, though that figure may be too high. How many actually FOUGHT in the Revolutionary War? LESS THAN 5% of the population. And yes, that includes the camp followers, which were the wifes and children of MANY of the men fighting a 'revolution' against King George. At the time this war occurs, 'The SUN NEVER SET ON THE BRITISH EMPIRE'. Which means King George and his boys were the biggest, baddest armed force on the planet. --- Now, let's jump to present day for just a couple of minutes. First, there are OVER 300 million guns in the hands of the CIVILIAN population. When the US Government gives the order for the military to 'stand down' while the UN handles our internal problems, how many do you think will just sit on the sidelines? You don't ACTUALLY THINK that a US fighting military man would be trusted to disarm said civilian population do you? Let's just run a FEW numbers. Let's say that of the 80 MILLION gun owners, ONLY 10% would actually think a second revolution was a good thing. That would mean about 8 million gun owners. Lets just say that only HALF of those would ACTUALLY FIGHT. That's 4 million gun owners. You seem to be under some delusion that first, those 4 million gun owners would form some type of militia. Hell, they would keep that small handgun grandpa gave them and when they caught one or two 'opfor' out on their own, down they would go. SECOND, let's get back to the US MILITARY standing down while the UN 'handles' the disarmament of this nation. The Special Forces have a newspaper out. Now understand, it's not an 'approved' type of newspaper. And what I have read is that basically anyone who IS currently in the Special Forces will go over the wall carrying everything NOT NAILED DOWN. And do you KNOW what OUR Special Forces are trained to do? Why, overthrow 'HOSTILE' governments. You think on those and get back with us. Things are ONLY as dismal because YOU DON'T SEE what will happen. YOU apparently have NO CLUE as to what's ACTUALLY going on behind the scenes these days. For example, Good Old Louie Farrakahn's boys have ALL signed up for National Guard service in a LOT of the larger cities. Their plans are to 'relieve' the Guard of their duties and THEY will 'protect' us all. Nothing LIKE SEEING FIRST HAND good old LOUIE'S boys doing close quarter drills on a street corner in Oakland on a Saturday night. Pretty impressive in their tuxes. And they don't miss a step. YOU COULD TAKE A QUE FROM THEM. They too think they will just 'waltz' right in and take over. In Oakland, sure. IN DENVER? Doubt it. In Detroit?? Probably. In NEW YORK??? NEVER HAPPEN. Get a clue. It's never just 'us little guys'. It's just ALL US LITTLE GUYS that have already 'been there, done that' and expect to have to do so again. And there are a lot of us out there. With WAY MORE EXPERIENCE than you might imagine. And the real problem is that TPTB really think they can control 300 million pissed off Americans. YOU THINK LA BURNED BECAUSE OF SOUTH CENTRAL had problems? The blacks burned their own area to the ground. Imagine if it were only 10% of Americans that agreed with the 'revolutionists'. That's 30 million. Half of those ACTUALLY FIGHTING? 15 million. Dude, run the numbers. Short of just bombing the actual piss out of this country (and the rest of the world for that matter - which could happen, I grant you) there is NOTHING WORSE than waking the sleeping giant that is the American people. DOES ANYONE HERE actually remember 9/11? I am NOT bringing it up to start an argument. I'm talking about how EVERYONE in the US seemed 'unified'. Yeah, yeah, the 'sheeple' have short memories. But, you let the UN come in to 'help' in our internal problems? Trust me, what happened to the US military in Mogadishu, Somalia (Blackhawk Down incident) will seem like a walk in the park to the UN. EVERY GUY IN MOGADISHU RAN TOWARDS THE SMOKING HELICOPTER WITH A WEAPON IN HAND. You think all THOSE GUYS have weapons? Please, they are wimps by comparison to what's in the hands of private civilians these days. Try going to Knob Creek, or one of the NUMEROUS machine gun shoots that occur around this country EVERY MONTH. And we are talking about guys who not only know their weapon, but have ammo and plenty of ability to use it. BECAUSE THEY PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. I can tell you about Dragon Man down in Colorado Springs, who every year brings out his collection of military vehicles. Armor, half traks, quad mounted machine guns, jeeps, and god knows how many weapons in how many variations. EVERY NOVEMBER for Veterans Day he holds a display. The money goes to the local firefighters or the local PD. And he tears it up. The finale is ALWAYS a guy driving a car out onto the 'range'. He gets out and wanders around like he's confused. He's warned that NOT the place to park his vehicle. Of course, it's all a set up. The vehicle has several sticks of dynamite in it. Lit off by Mel (Dragon Man) ripping the vehicle up with one of his .50 caliber weapons. And that's just ONE GUY in one small town.

thorgrim | 08-29-2006 01:49 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Civilutionary Dude, I don't care what I'm not teaching you. There are plenty of people on this forum to grease your wheels, don't patronize me with that 'what should we do nonsense'. Ya'll think that this is going to be a movie and it's not...going out in a blaze of glory. How Hollywood. Is that your course of action? Most of you do not see the big picture, you think that you can fight your way out of this. My point has been...when Martial Law is declared and the Contitution suspended and all of its amendments, what power or legality will you have to fight? Will you be able to defeat the military might of the Russians, Chinese, Germans, and U.N. soldiers?
Look Dude. I don't care if you tear my ideas apart, thats fine, as long as you provide some sort of alternative of your own. I would assume that most people on this forum come here to have a little fun and learn something while their at it. None of your posts on this thread and a few others bring anything productive to the conversation. So if you are having a bad day (or month) why don't you go beat your cat with a rolled up newspaper or something and quit dumping on everyones ideas. As for going out in a blaze of glory and all that, I hope it doesn't come down to that, it's not something I'm going to rush head long into. But if they ever get around to chipping everyone I can tell you I would rather commit suicide by a cop than be a slave. I have to give props to guys like wallew, Fiat Mutiny, Ponce, REV127,(others too) they have much more knowledge and experience in some areas than I do and I am always picking up good ideas from them.

GREENSILVERHORN | 08-29-2006 02:04 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. The underground, will truly be that. Maybe that is what they meant about the dead walking again in the bible. I'll agree with Civilutionary. You will not be able to escape their grasp forever unless you leave by boat and find a nice little tropical gulf that you and your kin can hide and fish in. "The Beach" thats the movie your looking for, and also the place to die with your treasure. Though the preps. may see you thru to that. Thats the key. We gotta start thinking further down the road.

Civilutionary | 08-29-2006 10:04 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 343593) What in the world leads you to believe the one scenario you believe in is the only possible scenario??? I think you're hung up on seeing things only one way - your way and no other. There are infinite possible scenarios, things are in a constant state of flux. The one you maintain is going to happen is only one of many. Why are you so hung up on tomorrow anyway??? I suggest you live in the here and now while preparing for an uncertain future.
What in the world is wrong with you people? What totally amazes me about you all is that there is so much talk on this forum about the inevitable collapse of the U.S. economy because of the FED..."It's coming, it's coming! It's only a matter of time. How long now? Let's all admit it!" You swallow that camel but you turn right around and strain at the gnat that the Constitution will be wiped out. Is the New World Order a figment of our imaginations? Is the surveillance grid and the draconian police state laws figments of our imaginations? Is it just me, or do you all realize that the people who loan you the "money" you work for are the same group of men who stage false flag ops like 9-11? Did y'all forget 9-11? Hey, did you all forget Waco, Texas for that matter? (Hey Wallew, were the Delta special forces helping to overthrow hostile governments that day?) What do you mean, "seeing things only my way and no other"? Christianity, Patriotism and the Constitution are the three major obstacles to the NWO. What do you think the War on Terror is about? What do you think anti-terror legislation fulfils? Why do you think National ID cards are coming? To mark and sift dissenters. These are all the pipe dreams of your ole buddy Civil, right? They are dismantling the Constitution bit by bit and piece by piece while we sit here debating and fighting each other, while we obsess about sports, celebrities, materialism, and "making more money". With every terrorist scare or foiled plot, they consolidate more power and chip away at the Constitution. They don't have to worry about the blue-pillers who have already been distracted by their amusements, who believe that voting counts, that we need to sacrifice freedom for security. They're pulling the rug from underneath the Patriot right now...for the day when they will have law on their side to round us up. Did any of us forsee 9-11? On September 10, 2001, could any of us forsee a repeat of Hitler's 1930s Germany and the rabid attacks on our freedom? What happens if sleeper-cells activate and turn downtown Manhattan into Tel Aviv? What happens if al-Qaeda have smuggled a dirty bomb through drug-running tunnels and are coming in amongst Mexican illegals? What happens if a dirty bomb goes off in the U.S.? What happens if we capture Bin Laden and the insurgency turns the U.S. into Iraq or Afghanistan? What do you think is going to happen after the next 9-11? Am I still seeing things "my way"? See, you're all talking about "survival". And I'm trying to figure out what it is that we will survive. What's on the other side of Martial Law and the disarmament of this country? New World Order. Alright, so we survive the rioting, we survive the looting, we survive the religious hysteria, we survive foreign troops, we survive the collapse of the U.S. dollar and economy, we survive the chaos and pandemonium. What then? That's all I want somebody to tell me...what then? What are the contingencies and scenarios for that possibility?

Civilutionary | 08-29-2006 10:17 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 343590) Look Dude. I don't care if you tear my ideas apart, thats fine, as long as you provide some sort of alternative of your own. I would assume that most people on this forum come here to have a little fun and learn something while their at it. None of your posts on this thread and a few others bring anything productive to the conversation. So if you are having a bad day (or month) why don't you go beat your cat with a rolled up newspaper or something and quit dumping on everyones ideas. As for going out in a blaze of glory and all that, I hope it doesn't come down to that, it's not something I'm going to rush head long into. But if they ever get around to chipping everyone I can tell you I would rather commit suicide by a cop than be a slave. I have to give props to guys like wallew, Fiat Mutiny, Ponce, REV127,(others too) they have much more knowledge and experience in some areas than I do and I am always picking up good ideas from them.
I'd like to see ideas of your own, instead of the petty insults because they don't help the cause, either. TPTB have been adept at dividing and conquering the population: dividing us into groups and having us fight one another. What you are doing is the same nonsense we see on FOX News and the like with their stupid roundtables of people pointing fingers and laying blame. When all's said and done, they've got no constructive solutions to offer. The collapse of the U.S. dollar and economy is an inevitability. The subsequent collapse of the Constitution by Martial Law is an inevitability. So what are you going to do? If you don't have any answers or solutions of your own, fine. But don't drop your Playstation controller because I ask questions to others who may.

mayhem | 08-29-2006 10:27 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
I have to give props to guys like wallew, Fiat Mutiny, Ponce, REV127,(others too) they have much more knowledge and experience in some areas than I do and I am always picking up good ideas from them.
This is the camp I'm in. We have all benefitted from a few brave souls who fought the Rev War. Personally having been in the military, they don't do crap till someone tells them to do it, and then they don't execute well. Need to know how the world's finest are? Look at Iraq, that will tell ya. I ain't going on the bus. m

Anty Ep | 08-29-2006 10:28 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggethunter (Post 341563) Lets all admit to ourselves.... Fiat and even PMs,barter will be a challenge . A network is a must.
Yes a network is a must. But there are social networks all around you. They will NOT automatically collapse when "TSHTF" NOR WILL YOU BE ALLOWED INTO ONES THAT YOU WERE NOT IN BEFORE TSHTF. What you need to understand is that people take care of their own. If you are not "Someone's own" then you are a castaway on the seas of life whether its a survival question or any other Quote:
I pity every fool living in any metropolis larger than 50k population
. Not so. Cities are loci of trade and trade means wealth. Wealth means power, and power means wealth. Cities can mobilize armies that will strip the small towns and countryside bare. Look at the Ukraine in the 1930s where the Jewish Bolsheviks mobilized the Russian masses to go liquidate the Kulacks and take all their grain. The atomized Ukrainians were easy pickings and you may be too. Right now you will not the Uncle's Imperial Forces have in them a considerable number of subs that are well organized and well disciplined and now receiving OJT in MOUT as well as counter-insurgency. So, find your place and if that place is most well connected in a city, dont be so quick to pull up stakes and "head for the hills." Quote:
California will be a police state barnone.
well on its way already isnt it? Quote:
Sitting on a hill in alabama with a full homestead use to be enough. I dont feel that anymore......Its come to a point that it will take support and groups of support to survive.
plus who wants to live alone? not me. I like family and friends. and they will call on me to help them if it all comes to that and I do "have a plan." Quote:
WERE ALL DEEP DOWN SCARED!!!!!!!!!!
You should fear dishonor before death. Shakespeare said by his character Julius Caesar: "a coward dies a thousand times before his death, the valliant taste of death but once." My recommendation is to try and think of others besides yourself. Think of your family or friends or kinsmen or racial kin whom you may serve. Be a part of the solution -- build those ties and bonds that bring our folk closer together.

Anty Ep | 08-29-2006 10:34 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Listen up. Day Zero the balloon goes up-- or whatever. On Day 2 do y'all think that the local police, fire dept, etc just vanish? No, they still exist. If they dont know your name before the balloon goes up, you're not likely to get any special treatment the day after either. Physical wealth like coins or bullets or MREs are quickly exhausted. Social wealth like the useful "networks" that were mentioned in post #1 if this thread are the real long term basis of wealth and security. Keep that in mind. If you aren't making yourself useful to your community today, what use will they have for you tomorrow? I have been thinking of "survival" since the 80s. I can tell you the usual bunch of "patriots" and "survivalists" are woefully lonely and atomized people. Good people-- good men-- usually White men in their 30s-50s who have lead decent lives and yet fell ill used and appreciated by the world around them. But dont let the bitterness poison your future. Get out there and meet up with real people and see what you can do to make your local communities and regions and states a better place. Forget about changing the world. Forget about the Apocalypse and all the survivalist gotterdamerung/ DOTR/ end times fantasies and nightmares. Focus on real people and places and doing good for your kind today. Antoine De St Exupery: "il faut creer les liens entre gens"

TheSimpleton | 08-29-2006 11:33 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. TS <---- Is trying to figure out the point of all this. So much work to do and so little time. Each in their own fashion to make the world better. I think everyone in this thread sees the same basic field of probability, so who's blind? Strangely, different people with different backgrounds in different areas seem to be preparing in different ways. They should all be thinking and acting the same way? When their needs and talents are different? I thought that freedom of action, of expression, and of opinion was one of the inalienable rights we should protect for each other. Yes? TS Now back to tips on survival prep, your regularly scheduled program.

REV127 | 08-29-2006 11:56 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Civil, you are right in that most of us here expect if not an outright failure some very big economic troubles here brought about by a criminal government and out of control FRB. A difference between us is most of us understand the Constitution along with the Bill Of Rights has already been thrown out the window. The power and legality to resist tyrany was inbuilt by our creator, not granted by some manmade rules and regulations. There is a very real good vs evil or spiritual aspect to this and I would reccomend taking a look at Leviticus 26:3 through 26:39. I never did understand it when people say "I'd rather die than..." or "go out in a blaze of glory," "die on my feet," or "I'd save the last bullet for myself." I've seen movies and read stories where there's supposed to be some group of big badass warriors who consider themselves to already be dead. This kind of thinking is just completely alien to me, I can't relate. When it comes to fighting I prefer defeating my enemy over any kind of death and believe Patton had it right when he said nobody ever won a war by dying for his country, he won it by making the other poor SOB die for his. A guy I knew was showing me one of those challenge coins that are seeing much circulation these days and recounted he got his from an SOF operator of some kind he knew, which was cool. He went on to tell me that the idea of the challenge coin came from the old days of the muskets when soldiers would carve a special bullet to save to shoot themselves with. There he lost me. What kind of thinking is that? In those days my ancestors were hakkapeliitta, dragoons. In the Thirty Years War our enemies believed our ranks were held together by witchcraft and they added special prayers to their masses pleading for protection from us on the battlefield. My American grandpa at the Battle Of The Bulge saved his last bullet for a Nazi, then he fixed bayonets and fought them hand to hand along with the rest of his unit who had run out of ammunition. Maybe death is romantic to some people? I don't know about that but I do know I have survived armed combat before and God willing I can do so again. I won't set my self up for some futile blaze of glory, I'll pick my battles, fight asymetrically and hit my enemy where it hurts. My last great act of defiance will be laying on my deathbed when I bequeeth my weapons to my most worthy grandson secure in the knowledge that he will continue to oppose evil and tyrany as our family has done for 5,000 years. Nations rise and fall, God is eternal. Choose your allegiances accordingly. I'm glad to see there are many others here who feel like I do. It is wrong to despair while brave men and women are still to be found with their colors. With wit, courage and faith any enemy can be overcome, the history books provide bountiful examples. I'd consider it an honor to fight the NWO or march against the armies of Hell itself with any of you. As for the question of what are we doing now or what can we do the answer is deceptively simple, prepare, live a good life and take care of your family. Everything else stems from there. How can they cut off our power and food if we're all off grid and feed ourselves off our lots? How can they enforce martial law with a rifle behind every blade of grass? How can they make our children mindslaves if we teach them the strength of morality and independence? How can they inflate away our wealth when we hold silver and gold rather than fiat? How can the few oppress the many if only we stand together? There four battlegrounds in any war, the most important are your mind, your heart and your soul. The physical battleground is only the last and if you can win the first three battles you can win the fourth. This is not some copout like "it isn't time yet" or "it would be futile to stand alone." This is an absolutely critical turning point, we win or lose based on whether or not we do a handful of simple common sense things. Prepare, live a good life and take care of your family.

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wallew | 08-29-2006 12:17 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Civilutionary (Post 343777) Hey, did you all forget Waco, Texas for that matter? (Hey Wallew, were the Delta special forces helping to overthrow hostile governments that day?)
Nope. WACO was pretty much self inflicted. David Koresh (or whatever the guys name REALLY WAS) had ONE HUNDRED BATF AGENTS at his mercy and let them walk. EVENTUALLY THEY KILLED HIM AND HIS. So you tell me. If your 'compound' is attacked by a large group of storm troopers from the BATF (pick you alphabet agency) and they RUN OUT OF AMMUNITION and raise the white flag, WHAT WILL YOU DO? LET THEM GO? :haha: If you did, then you get what you deserve. Hello, exactly how would the US GOVERNMENT ATTACKED the Waco Compound if ALL THOSE AGENTS were RINGED AROUND THE HOUSE that everyone was in? ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THE TV CAMERA'S AROUND? :banana:

REV127 | 08-29-2006 12:28 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Actually I'd point out Ruby Ridge as the followup. I personally believe it was the presence of agitated "militia" that kept them from pulling another burn. I have no doubt this was the reason for the anti-patriot inquisition. What they don't realize is all they've accomplished in driving the patriots and militia underground is steeling our hearts against them. The next time there is a large patriot/militia protest guns will be blazing. TPTB have made an enemy of a great many people, it's like a giant set of dominos, all the pieces are waiting on the first to make his move. As was pointed out there are far too many gunowners to go quietly into the night. Australia or England-style gun confiscation would ignite this situation. There is a possibility that NAIS will as well. Funny and I'm not saying I buy into it at all, I'm just observing, but didn't that John Titor guy who claimed to be from the near future say that the coming civil war started with the farmers? Now here comes NAIS to be the catalyst. editted to add: I expect law enforcement and the more elite formations in the military to be the ones most like to serve as goons and thugs for any NWO scenario. The ordinary servicemen and women have 2 to 4 year contracts and lots of friends and family at home. The more elite members tend to be lifers and have a lot more emmotionally invested in the institution. Our military hasn't fought for the Constitution since the Revolutionary War, I don't expect that to all the sudden change. It doesn't matter. Do you know where the US military gets "the best in the world" from? It's you and me buddy. Like any other government institution our military is all jacked up so it isn't like the Feds are particularly good at breeding supersoldiers. Likewise the training isn't all that, it's heads and shoulders above no training, but it isn't beyond the grasp of ordinary people because hey, that's who they designed it for. The badguys will have plenty of manpower no better than what we could muster, but they will have better weapons and their leadership will be more evil. Attack the weapons and the leadership to even things out.

Anty Ep | 08-29-2006 01:58 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 343903) ....In those days my ancestors were hakkapeliitta, dragoons. In the Thirty Years War our enemies believed our ranks were held together by witchcraft and they added special prayers to their masses pleading for protection from us on the battlefield. My American grandpa at the Battle Of The Bulge saved his last bullet for a Nazi, then he fixed bayonets and fought them hand to hand along with the rest of his unit who had run out of ammunition. Maybe death is romantic to some people? I don't know about that but I do know I have survived armed combat before and God willing I can do so again. .....
civil war = northern vs southern, euro-american fratricide 30 years war = catholic vs prot, european fratricide ww1 and 2 = anglo-american vs continental, european fratricide. somebody's always egging us on to kill each other. who is that anyways? first you got to figure out who is "us" and "we." that figure keeps on changing--

Anty Ep | 08-29-2006 02:03 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 343938) ... editted to add: I expect law enforcement and the more elite formations in the military to be the ones most like to serve as goons and thugs for any NWO scenario. The ordinary servicemen and women have 2 to 4 year contracts and lots of friends and family at home. The more elite members tend to be lifers and have a lot more emmotionally invested in the institution. .....
sounds good in theory but in practice I find that some of the best hearts in the armed forces are in the elite formations. some of the best men I know who are in the habit of speaking out and opposing the tyranny at hand were elites or "lifers" as you say. they generally have a higher IQ and better character and you know what else? A higher percentage of them are White. Maybe some of you guys dont think that matters or wont says so, but I will.

REV127 | 08-29-2006 03:12 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. I know exactly what you're saying. The SF guys I've met were really nice guys because you don't get where they are by being a whiney self-centered non-team player. The military in general trends conservative and freedom-minded and I'm not saying the relationship is causational but most of the patriot/militia/survivalist types I've known have a military background. The difference is what happens when the balloon goes up. Talk and protestations are one thing, a good thing that should be encouraged for sure, but time and again we've seen that when the balloon goes up they follow orders. That's people who are in. When they get out it's a whole nother ballgame. An ex-sf operator who's been living in the world for a good long while now is at least as likely as anybody else to fight the power. I trust the man who is out more than the man who is in. As far as the fratricide goes, you are absolutely right to a degree. heh. "We" definately should not be fighting eachother, we should be fighting the enemy. The problem is that as long as our brothers are fighting for the enemy and against us, our brother is the enemy. This is yet another reason why I consistently advocate ignoring anti-personell attrition warfare while attacking the leadership and logistics. The only time you have to commit fratricide is when your brother has already lost the first three battles of the heart, mind and soul. Regardless, this is not uniquely anti-Western. You willl find many similar wars, attrocities and genocides in Asia, Africa and Latin America. It is absolutely a divide and conquer strategy. As I said, how can the few oppress the many if we all stand together? We are seen as slaves and cattle by the man behind the curtain. If I'm saving a bullet for anybody that's who I'm saving it for. "We" should be all the common folk of the whole world regardless of race or national origin. I'm not saying we all need to move to the same country, live under the same rule, hold hands and sing "cumbayah," we don't even have to like eachother but we should at least be good neighbors. "They" are the same "they" it has always been and you can choose to say Satan or aliens or occultists depending on what concept of evil you are most comfortable with. And yes, that is an enemy that can be located, identified and eliminated.

thorgrim | 08-29-2006 06:18 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Frick I had to re-write this because it didn't work the first time. Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew Nope. WACO was pretty much self inflicted. David Koresh (or whatever the guys name REALLY WAS) had ONE HUNDRED BATF AGENTS at his mercy and let them walk. EVENTUALLY THEY KILLED HIM AND HIS. So you tell me. If your 'compound' is attacked by a large group of storm troopers from the BATF (pick you alphabet agency) and they RUN OUT OF AMMUNITION and raise the white flag, WHAT WILL YOU DO? LET THEM GO? :haha: If you did, then you get what you deserve. Hello, exactly how would the US GOVERNMENT ATTACKED the Waco Compound if ALL THOSE AGENTS were RINGED AROUND THE HOUSE that everyone was in? ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THE TV CAMERA'S AROUND? :banana:
I totally agree. The biggest mistake they made was letting them walk away. Would the end result for those at Waco been any worse if they had taken the BATF hostage? Or killed them all? I doubt it. But it might have made the next batch of BATF think twice before they pulled the same stunt again. Civil, If you think your version of the future is inevitable. Why don't you apply for as much credit as possibe, max out your credit cards and go on a 2 year party/binge. Just have a blast. You pretty much said it wouldn't be worth surviving into a NWO type of world so why not? As for solutions now. I think the most important thing you can do is wake up friends and family to what is going on. I have had mixed success with this. I also give out copies of movies like Terror storm, and 9/11 Martial Law. I have an infowars.com sticker on my truck, I wear T-shirts that make people think. I was at the grocery store the other day wearing a T-shirt that had a picture of the WTC on it and the word Questions? The teller said she thought the shirt was cool and had a friend who would want one. So we are having an effect and more people out there are starting to catch on.

Civilutionary | 08-30-2006 12:55 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 344295) Frick I had to re-write this because it didn't work the first time. I totally agree. The biggest mistake they made was letting them walk away. Would the end result for those at Waco been any worse if they had taken the BATF hostage? Or killed them all? I doubt it. But it might have made the next batch of BATF think twice before they pulled the same stunt again. Civil, If you think your version of the future is inevitable. Why don't you apply for as much credit as possibe, max out your credit cards and go on a 2 year party/binge. Just have a blast. You pretty much said it wouldn't be worth surviving into a NWO type of world so why not? As for solutions now. I think the most important thing you can do is wake up friends and family to what is going on. I have had mixed success with this. I also give out copies of movies like Terror storm, and 9/11 Martial Law. I have an infowars.com sticker on my truck, I wear T-shirts that make people think. I was at the grocery store the other day wearing a T-shirt that had a picture of the WTC on it and the word Questions? The teller said she thought the shirt was cool and had a friend who would want one. So we are having an effect and more people out there are starting to catch on.
I wish I could afford a Terror Storm or 9-11 Martial Law DVD. :bawling: For now, I just surf Infowars, amongst others. About Waco...self-inflicted? The Feds came back after some of their own were killed for trespassing on the compound. They came with tanks and choppers, pouring CS gas into the place and burned them all! We were all told that the Davidians committed suicide. We all found out that was a lie. Point is, it's indicative of what our government has the potential to do to its own citizens. Furthermore, why do people on this website even say 'TSHTF' if they don't believe that something calamitous will happen in this country? Is this future a picture I alone have painted, or do not some of you start threads about survival prep because you know this will be a reality? And I still can't get direct answers to a simple question that I have asked...when Martial Law is declared, what can or will we do? You're hip to Alex Jones, what do you think he's saying? Is he too dreaming up a future of an America without the Constitution? P.S.--I think that a few have misunderstood me when I have said I'd rather die than live in the NWO. Perhaps, you have equated this with suicide. What I mean is that I have made peace with the fact that I may not make it out of this alive, but only God knows. What I mean is that IF I found myself in a camp and I'm given the choice to submit or else, I wouldn't submit. Hence, I'd rather die in the camps. "Live Free or Die", right? But tell me where will you be if you survive the round-ups and the chaos. If you choose not to live in the NWO, what will life be like for you in the underground? Have you figured that into the equation AFTER you've survived?

Ponce Cuba | 08-30-2006 01:03 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. I am more afraid of those in uniform than those without it because I know that those without uniform are the enemy for sure where those in uniform could be or could be not..... :mad:

thorgrim | 08-30-2006 03:24 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by Civilutionary What I mean is that IF I found myself in a camp and I'm given the choice to submit or else, I wouldn't submit. Hence, I'd rather die in the camps. "Live Free or Die", right? But tell me where will you be if you survive the round-ups and the chaos. If you choose not to live in the NWO, what will life be like for you in the underground? Have you figured that into the equation AFTER you've survived?
Well I think the first thing to point out is that there is no guarantee what will happen in the future. That is why I am preparing in such a way as to be able to handle different situations. I mean if I could predict the future with any accuracy I would be rich already. As for dealing with martial law if it happens. Let�s just say I'm not going to make it easy for them to put me in a camp, they will have to work at it. If I have to go underground, I live in Canada and there is a whole lot of wilderness up here. Living in the bush would suck and would be a last resort but it sure beats being abused in a camp. There was a guy in Saskatchewan who killed a few Mounties a while back and fled on foot into the bush. They couldn't find him for 8 days even though they put a lot of manpower into it. Finally a farmer found him sleeping in his tractor and talked him in to turning himself in. If this guy had been prepped instead of just winging he wouldn't have had to seek shelter. They never would have found him. So it can be done.

Civilutionary | 08-30-2006 10:41 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 344698) If this guy had been prepped instead of just winging he wouldn't have had to seek shelter. They never would have found him. So it can be done.
Yeah, I know it can be done: look at Eric Rudolph, look at the Unabomber, look at Bin Laden for that matter. I am no soothsayer nor someone who makes predictions, but in lieu of a push for the NWO, I know what events will precede its formation. It's that simple. Like I said about Alex Jones, what do you think that he's saying on his website? What do you think he's saying when he shows his films at theaters around the country? What do you think he's saying when he holds a 9-11 Truth conference in L.A.? He's saying that a criminal element within the U.S. government and indeed a global elite are sponsoring terrorism to consolidate more control, in order to turn the earth into a prison planet. These things are happening right before our eyes. There IS a guarantee that the people who have been cunning enough to circumvent the Constitution will be powerful enough to take it all at the right moment in time. They've got their agents in the White House, in the Pentagon, in the media, in Hollywood, on Wall Street, in the Christian religious establishment. They have alot at stake and have the unimaginable and unlimited resources to carry out their objectives. They've got all their bases covered and have contingencies for contingencies. Please don't think that I'm singing these peoples' praises, all that I'm saying is that a storm is coming and it will be one engineered to cause a paradigm shift. The future is certain. Nothing is left to chance. The only question is...are we gonna be John Connor or John Doe?

REV127 | 08-30-2006 11:20 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. What I take issue with is the notion of futility or that TPTB are some kind of juggernaut. As far as the rest goes, I already am living underground because America already sucks. Surviving isn't some huge trauma, it just means you still have the opportunity to take actions, whatever they may be. Currently I am becoming increasingly less dependent on the system. Every time you shovel food in your mouth you are surviving starvation. If your question is "what do I do next?" it can only be answered realtime unless you want to play some explicit scenarios. If the badguys are chasing me I determine quickly who has tactical overmatch at the moment and either evade or neutralize my enemies accordingly. If its a depression then I grow food and try to make a buck doing what I can. If it is a foreign invasion or hostile takeover I hunt badguys.

Civilutionary | 08-30-2006 11:48 AM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 344937) What I take issue with is the notion of futility or that TPTB are some kind of juggernaut. As far as the rest goes, I already am living underground because America already sucks. Surviving isn't some huge trauma, it just means you still have the opportunity to take actions, whatever they may be. Currently I am becoming increasingly less dependent on the system. Every time you shovel food in your mouth you are surviving starvation. If your question is "what do I do next?" it can only be answered realtime unless you want to play some explicit scenarios. If the badguys are chasing me I determine quickly who has tactical overmatch at the moment and either evade or neutralize my enemies accordingly. If its a depression then I grow food and try to make a buck doing what I can. If it is a foreign invasion or hostile takeover I hunt badguys.
Tell me something, Rothschild and his circle don't care who makes what laws or what candidate is on what ballot because they already control this nation through their money powers. Is not the power that the FED wields juggernautic? What about the Patriot Act and the totalitarian powers of the President? Is not this power a juggernaut? Is he not a dictator? Has he not used terrorism to consolidate carte blanche and use his powers unchecked? What I take issue with is the notion that the cabal are just powerless paper tigers. There is no futility in not underestimating the power of your enemy and determining the parameters in which to wage war. There is no futility in realizing that in a state of Martial Law, you will not have rights to property, nor to grow food. It is not futility to realize that the President will seize control of commerce, trade, transportation, everything under the American sun by executive order should a national emergency arise worthy of a Martial Law declaration. Am I the only one who realizes this?

REV127 | 08-30-2006 12:23 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. All the conditions of coming martial law you suggest presently exist. We have no rights, only certain granted privileges and the things we can get away with without anyone noticing. To answer your other question, no. No money powers nor legislative nor judicial powers make a juggernaut. People are just meat puppets and all systems are rife with vulnerabilities exploitably by those motivated to do so. You're looking way too low on the totempole for your enemies, the real enemy here is spiritual not some illuminati lackey. There's no juggernaut there, either. Both the spiritual and physical enemy were driven underground in a series of wars over the last 5,000 years as is well recorded in the Bible and other texts and the badguys have operated secretly and through proxies ever since. We live in a particularly spiritually weak age so we're seeing a lot more open activity but it doesn't really matter anyway because both spiritual and physical enemies can be dealt with. Did you read Leviticus? The commoners never revolt en masse until they are made so excrutiatingly uncomfortable that they have little other choice. While nearly insufferable for a primitive-minded barbarian such as myself most people are not yet uncomfortable enough to incite a rebellion and things, as bad as they are from my perspectie, still have a long way to get worse. I see the same problems you do, I suppose I'm just not intimidated by them. I used to be, and I can definately understand how things are much more frightening the less you know about them. Fear isn't useless per se but focusing on fear rather than effective courses of action is problematic. I've already been imprisoned, I've already been in firefights, I've already been subjected to prolonged indoctrination when in the employ of their institutions, I've already been exposed to seas of propaganda, I've already been tortured. There isn't a whole lot they can do to me that is new except harming my wife which would be stupid because then I would have nobody to protect. They've blown their wad and I no longer have any more fear of them then I have of any other random criminal who could just as effectually victimize or kill me. Read Leviticus, at least the verses I suggested and don't follow the money just look higher up the totempole.

Unclad Lad | 08-30-2006 01:54 PM
Admit Nothing! Quite some time ago, Rev127 said: Quote:
here's at least a couple do-ers as opposed to talkers I'm aware of on this board alone
I've been following this thread, mostly without comment, to watch as the accusations and demarcations fly, and all I can say is this: Rev, maybe there a few "doers" here, but most who are doing, really getting ready, aren't wasting their time on this board, or the 99% of the "Survivalism" forums out there. They are through debating, and they certainly don't need to argue broad philosophies about staying alive. They are growing food, educating children, putting food by, and fading out of sight. They have no need to convince anyone of the "rightness of their cause". Those who know are already there. Search for a site called Alpha Rubicon. It's part of the 1%.

Civilutionary | 08-30-2006 01:57 PM
Re: Lets all admit it. Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 345003) All the conditions of coming martial law you suggest presently exist. We have no rights, only certain granted privileges and the things we can get away with without anyone noticing. To answer your other question, no. No money powers nor legislative nor judicial powers make a juggernaut. People are just meat puppets and all systems are rife with vulnerabilities exploitably by those motivated to do so. You're looking way too low on the totempole for your enemies, the real enemy here is spiritual not some illuminati lackey. There's no juggernaut there, either. Both the spiritual and physical enemy were driven underground in a series of wars over the last 5,000 years as is well recorded in the Bible and other texts and the badguys have operated secretly and through proxies ever since. We live in a particularly spiritually weak age so we're seeing a lot more open activity but it doesn't really matter anyway because both spiritual and physical enemies can be dealt with. Did you read Leviticus? The commoners never revolt en masse until they are made so excrutiatingly uncomfortable that they have little other choice. While nearly insufferable for a primitive-minded barbarian such as myself most people are not yet uncomfortable enough to incite a rebellion and things, as bad as they are from my perspectie, still have a long way to get worse. I see the same problems you do, I suppose I'm just not intimidated by them. I used to be, and I can definately understand how things are much more frightening the less you know about them. Fear isn't useless per se but focusing on fear rather than effective courses of action is problematic. I've already been imprisoned, I've already been in firefights, I've already been subjected to prolonged indoctrination when in the employ of their institutions, I've already been exposed to seas of propaganda, I've already been tortured. There isn't a whole lot they can do to me that is new except harming my wife which would be stupid because then I would have nobody to protect. They've blown their wad and I no longer have any more fear of them then I have of any other random criminal who could just as effectually victimize or kill me. Read Leviticus, at least the verses I suggested and don't follow the money just look higher up the totempole.
Leviticus? Have you read Revelation? You say the real enemy is spiritual, not some "Illuminati lackey". What spirit do you think the Illuminati worship, sir? So, you need to do alot more than read Leviticus because all throughout the bible, we see God bringing judgment on those nations who turn from Him to worship the sun and the host of heaven. Just what do you think Illuminati symbols represent, who do you think they are venerating? I get it...more conspiracy mumbo-jumbo, right? The enemy is hiding in plain sight. The enemy is sitting in church with us. The enemy is commanding us into battle. The enemy is a master of deception and is shaking my hand with a smile on his face, but has a dagger behind his back. I am well aware of the enemy and I'm not just going to sit around and believe that he is impudent. You seem to know the bible, perhaps you've overlooked this proverb..."A prudent man forseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished."--Proverbs 22:3 You seem like you've seen alot and done alot in your life. I commend you for that. But I'm sorry, I just don't have a seen-it-all, done-it-all outlook on this as of yet. Don't think I ever will. Vigilant, not fearful.

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