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- - 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=185806)

REV127 | 10-07-2007 08:19 PM
20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? I've always leaned toward the 12 personally but was recently exposed to the 20 and I like the idea of much less recoil, less ammo weight and most of the same power levels. This would be mostly for home defense, a longarm that won't be to punch holes through my few neighbors' homes as there are a few angles from which this is a real possibility with a rifle even though they're a couple hundred yards away. I'm also considering this from the perspective of my wife. She lifts weights and is an able shooter but like many women just doesn't have a whole lot of meat to pad the pocket of her shoulder. I won't be using the shottie to hunt small game, mostly interested in #3 buckshot and slugs, maybe beanbags or rubber bullets for special applications. I'm not sure about the rubber yet but the lead is plenty available and I don't count on any ammo supply but my own. If I capture enemy ammo I've also captured an enemy weapon that shoots it in all likelihood. Some people I know have the 20, others have the 12 so there isn't a pre-existing standard. I saw a laminated stock 20ga 870 w/ 18" barrel at Sports Authority, might not buy there but it looked like a good gun at a reasonable price.

electric-amish | 10-07-2007 08:34 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? I chose the 12 in the 870 home defense model. If there were others going to use it in the house I would have gone with the 20. 20 is fine for Home defense especially where recoil is concerned. In 15 years I won't be wanting to shoot a short 12 and would trade for a 20. Just my 2 cents E-A

REV127 | 10-07-2007 09:05 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Interesting... there is a 20ga version of the legendary Saiga semi auto AK-derived shotgun. http://raacfirearms.com/Saiga_20.htm

mtnman | 10-07-2007 09:31 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? 12ga. Hands down! It�s the most common gauge so lots of ammo. Easy to find reloading supplies and equipment. For home defense #7 shot with short brass (target loads) works fine. It will blow arms, legs and heads off the torso at 25 feet. Light recoil due to the light load. Slugs and buck are for hunting and not really needed for defense, just overkill!

SilverCity | 10-07-2007 09:47 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? If you hold Mas Ayoob in any regard, he is very high on the merits of a 20 gauge for in-home personal defense. A Remington 870 youth model 20 ga. would do nicely...shorter stock, 21" barrel, with a 3 inch chamber

damoc | 10-08-2007 10:09 AM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? I have not shot slugs through a 12 gauge but the 20 gauge seems to be a good slug gun If i was shooting a lot of buck I think i would prefer the 12 gauge to give more room.

andrey32 | 10-08-2007 12:05 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? I own a Mossberg 500 in 20 gauge. Its a great gun! My wife loves shooting it. The wife is the reason I bought the 20 instead of the 12. Only trouble is ammo availability. Hard to find buck or slugs in 20. But you can order tons online. If you will be reloading yourself, that should not be a problem.

REV127 | 10-08-2007 01:01 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? As far as ammo availability goes my local WalMart is awash in 20ga. It seems there's not as many varried loads available as with the 12ga, but the major bases seem to be covered and there's plenty available.

AMforPM | 10-08-2007 01:51 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Though relative rarity might bug you for various reasons, I find 16 ga nice. The Browning is nice, but expensive http://www.billhanusbirdguns.com/brwng06.html I did not track it down, but Remington 870s and 1100s in 16 are out there too. I bet you could find that for a much better price.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 10-09-2007 04:14 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 767405) For home defense #7 shot with short brass (target loads) works fine. It will blow arms, legs and heads off the torso at 25 feet. Light recoil due to the light load. Slugs and buck are for hunting and not really needed for defense, just overkill!
Would you tell me more about this No. 7 shot, please? I really want to hear all about it.

Onboard | 10-10-2007 02:03 AM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 767425) If you hold Mas Ayoob in any regard, he is very high on the merits of a 20 gauge for in-home personal defense. A Remington 870 youth model 20 ga. would do nicely...shorter stock, 21" barrel, with a 3 inch chamber
The 870 youth model does handle pretty nicely. The wife shot buckshot through it with no problem. If the short little AK handles well for you then you may like this little 20 also.

teedub31 | 10-12-2007 10:02 AM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? My experience with the 20 ga? Recoil is deceiving. I had a 20 ga all set up for my wife to deer hunt with. She had used it many times busting clay pigeons and was really comfortable with it. No complaint with recoil. She was concerned about shooting slugs though. I told her it was gonna have more punch, but with huntig clothes on, it would be no big deal. So she loaded up, BOOM and turned to me terrified. I thought she was over reacting and took a shot myself. To make a long story short, my shoulder felt like a train just hit it, I sold the gun quickly and moved her up to a 870 12ga. She has had no problems with that gun at all. I know, kinda strange.

Lackluster | 10-12-2007 10:28 AM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Maybe the 20 weighed less, giving more recoil?

teedub31 | 10-12-2007 10:34 AM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? I am sure that was the case. Was just a poor gun for slugs

SilverCity | 10-12-2007 10:42 AM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Were they 3 inch slug loads? Those can recoil like a 12 gauge...and in a lighter weight shotgun recoil can be stiff indeed. You can markedly reduce felt recoil by having the barrel back-bored and ported by a gunsmith. An autoloader 20 with a back-bored chamber and ported barrel is VERY light recoiling...saw someone shoot one off his chin!

Bimetallist | 10-12-2007 11:52 AM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? For home defense #7 shot with short brass (target loads) works fine. It will blow arms, legs and heads off the torso at 25 feet. Light recoil due to the light load. Slugs and buck are for hunting and not really needed for defense, just overkill! I am sorry but #7 shot is not for home defense its for shooting small birds. If small birds are attacking you then that is what you want to use. Yes it would wound somebody and "might" kill them but it also might not, especially if he's on lots of alcohol and drugs. This is a situation where your life is on the line and most people have decided that "might' is not good enough in this situation. A one shot kill is what we are looking for here. Beore I bought my Mossberg 500 and 590 I spent months reseaching what is the standard accepted home defense loads that were agreed on buy lots of gun owners and police. For a home defense and survival type gun that is a 12 gauge shotgun with 00Buck and slugs. People use 12 gauge because of there are probably hundreds of choices of ammo, from all types of bird shot and buckshot so you can hunt with it and all types of slugs, flares, and very special rounds like fireball rounds, flash-bangs, tear gas, Flechette rounds, glass loads, whistle rounds, blanks, pepper gas, incendiary rounds, the list is almost endless and available online from several companies. 12 gauge ammo is available everywhere. and there is far more of it around than any other round by orders of magnitude. This is why the 12 gauge shotgun is the most versatile weapon on the planet. For people concerend about recoil there are reduced recoil rounds available from many ammo makers.

Bimetallist | 10-12-2007 12:01 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? I forgot to add that 12 gauge ammo is a LOT cheaper than most other gauge shotshells. Saving more money for gold and silver.

drewfu | 10-12-2007 12:02 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? 00Buck, 12gauge -- no substitute, no argument If recoil is a problem, practice -- as if your life depended on it!

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 10-12-2007 12:19 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Aren't slugs more for use against harder targets like cars and such..?

wallew | 10-12-2007 12:19 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? You guys ARE NOT picking the right weapon... Try the Benelli M2 - 10 shots - 2 seconds - some of this trick shooters shots were ONE HANDED with literally no recoil - 12 ga http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=175319&fr

Lackluster | 10-12-2007 02:33 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Why do people call guns weapons? It seems that weapon is a very generic term, and gun is far more specific. Besides, that benelli guy had a gun, but wasn't using it as a weapon, so the word gun is more accurate. Not a flame, I'm just curious.

drewfu | 10-12-2007 02:35 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by Lackluster (Post 775732) Why do people call guns weapons? It seems that weapon is a very generic term, and gun is far more specific. Besides, that benelli guy had a gun, but wasn't using it as a weapon, so the word gun is more accurate. Not a flame, I'm just curious.
I agree. I've been arguing for the correct use of words on this board for awhile. However, there has been significant opposition to this proposal. For what it's worth, I agree with you.

andrey32 | 10-12-2007 02:55 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? #7 shot out of my 20 gauge failed to penetrate or even crack a 1/2 inch diameter pvc pipe (the target holder) at 25 yards. That is pretty far, but still shows the power of #7 shot. I was not shooting at the frame, but the shot spreads a lot at 25 yards, hitting the frame.

Anty Ep | 10-12-2007 03:07 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 767318) I've always leaned toward the 12 personally but was recently exposed to the 20 and I like the idea of much less recoil, less ammo weight and most of the same power levels. This would be mostly for home defense, a longarm that won't be to punch holes through my few neighbors' homes as there are a few angles from which this is a real possibility with a rifle even though they're a couple hundred yards away. I'm also considering this from the perspective of my wife. She lifts weights and is an able shooter but like many women just doesn't have a whole lot of meat to pad the pocket of her shoulder..
I like to shoot the 20 a lot esp skeet But, iffin you jes want lighter recoil, try those short aguila 12 ga rounds, ya know whum talkin bout? http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...45/ai_57006138

Bimetallist | 10-12-2007 11:43 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Yes you are right I sould have said gun, sorry. I did get a Mossberg first because it was less expensive than many other guns but next I think its going to be a Remington 870 police model. I think the Benelli is a nice shotgun too.

TUMS | 10-13-2007 12:21 AM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? #1 self defense shogun? Benelli M4 with collapsible stock.

wallew | 10-13-2007 12:33 AM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Actually both GUN and WEAPON are INCORRECT. The ACTUAL correct term is FIREARM. Go look all three up. Then you will understand. But it's like SO MANY people (not just here BTW) that call a 'magazine' a 'clip'. Drives me crazy, but you just can't educate EVERYONE. You might even want to go so far as perhaps calling it a 'Personal Defense Weapon' as this is the 'hot new' terminology.

Lackluster | 10-13-2007 08:05 AM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 776811) Actually both GUN and WEAPON are INCORRECT. The ACTUAL correct term is FIREARM. Go look all three up. Then you will understand. But it's like SO MANY people (not just here BTW) that call a 'magazine' a 'clip'. Drives me crazy, but you just can't educate EVERYONE. You might even want to go so far as perhaps calling it a 'Personal Defense Weapon' as this is the 'hot new' terminology.
Naw, I'll remain in ignorance and use "gun."

Baphomet Jones | 10-13-2007 09:42 AM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Whats the deal with those Knoxx sidewinder kits? I see them every once in a while on gunbroker or gunsamerica, are they illegal in the U.S. or no? I'd love to take the Rem 870 version, hack it up, TIG it back together, and assemble it on a Rem 1100 :bear_w00t: Oh, and 12-gauge all-day :D Ah, and then theres these: YouTube - MikeD's Saiga-12 20rd Drum Mag
YouTube - MikeD's Saiga-12 20rd Drum Mag
http://www.mdarms.com/Scripts/default.asp Makes me wonder if my next gun should be a saiga :D

REV127 | 10-18-2007 09:02 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Here's an interesting shotgun test. The #3 buckshot in the 20 gauge performed as my research suggested it would. Looks like their brand of slugs was bad, though. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm I'm still leaning towards a 12 gauge with reduced loads for my wife but that 20 is nagging in the back of my mind.

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- - 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=185806)

SilverCity | 10-18-2007 09:14 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Rev, try something like this for the wife's 12 gauge... http://www.angleport.com/angleporting.asp?C=202595

KASHMAN02 | 10-18-2007 09:16 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? If your thinking self defense, the bigger is always better, 20 is nice for trap and skeet.

Krugerrand | 10-18-2007 11:21 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Seems based on the Box of Truth testing that the 20 gauge with #3 buck performed quite adequately. Why not get one of each, a 12 and a 20? :D

mtnman | 10-18-2007 11:42 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Ever here of these, Aguila Mini Shells, 1.75" long, almost no recoil. They come in 7 1/2 shot and slugs. http://www.gearstuff.com/catalog.php...oduct&id=39559 http://shop.shooterscatalog.com/cata...oduct&id=39562

SilverCity | 10-18-2007 11:45 PM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 786746) I'm still leaning towards a 12 gauge with reduced loads for my wife but that 20 is nagging in the back of my mind.
A buddy of mine recently acquired one of these in 12 gauge...took it new out of the box and shot a sporting clays match. He was very impressed...and he is a former state trap shooting champion.

Quixote2 | 10-19-2007 12:08 AM
Re: 20 Gauge Vs 12 Gauge: Any Thoughts? Some 50+ years ago, I finally got big enough to handle a 12 gauge. The 20 gauge just did not put down the South Dakota pheasants and ducks at 40 yards like a full choke 12. I still have the 20 gauge and bought loads for my 5' - 0" wife. The 20 gauge would be OK for varmit shooting in the house. I bought a case of 12 pellet 00 buck 12 gauge that will discourage varmits at 50-60 yards in urban pest control.

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