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moreair | 02-20-2009 01:10 AM
Food Storage Questions, Vacume I have been reading with no luck to my specific questions. Please help or post links to existing threads. 1) I was just given a vacuum sealer. Can I use the clear plastic bags and store grains, coffee, pastas, beans long term? And how long would they stay good, 1-2 years? 3-4? 2) If the clear bags are not good for long term, can I use my vacuum sealer to vacume and seal the Mylar bags? I see heat sealers for sale for Mylar bags, but will the heat sealer on my vacume sealer work just as good? 3) Can you just toss an oxygen obsorber in a mylar bag and seal it and be done with it, or should you vacuum seal it? 4) Is there any advantage in using glass jars over mylar bags other than to keep mice out? I don't have mice. (cat) 5) If I get masson jars, can I just put oxygen obsorbers in it, or do I need to buy a vacuum sealer jar attachement? Thanks for any advice.:smile:

Glass | 02-20-2009 02:52 AM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume I have a vacuum sealer. I have just reached 12 months on some of my preps. The seals are still good. I am working my way through bread mix, rice, milk powder, sugar, meats and mixed vegetables. All seems ok so far. I did not like the obscene store prices for the "branded" bags so I found a plastic bag vendor in my country. The bags I used were of a specific type. They are smooth on one side and they have like a criss cross pattern on the other. Apparently these are the only ones you should use with a vacuum sealer. I understand Wallyworld sells their own brand of these bags for quite a bit less than the branded ones. I find the bags work well and maintain their seal. I have had problems with sugar as about 10% of those seemed to lose their seal. I have been looking closely at these and it seems that everyone that failed has a slight bunching of the plastic on one side where it was sealed. So the two sides of the bag were not perfectly pressed flat together, if that makes sense. So operatator error seems to be the cause. A tip for you when sealing up powdery substances. I get a paper kitchen towl and fold it in half. I then lay this on top of the contents, holdng the bag upright. I then kind of hold the bag closed in a way that keeps the powder below the towel and then seal it. This stops too much powder being sucked into the machine and into the area where I am placing the heat seal. It doesn't stop all of it from moving but 99.99% and nearly always stops it being sucked far enough to get into the seal. I am not sure if you can use mylar with these. It might just melt through.

moreair | 02-20-2009 12:41 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Thanksfor posting. Do you use oxygen obsorbers as well or just go with the initial vacume and seal? How long would expect oats, rice and noodles to last in your set up? Oats stay good in their original container for little over a year acording to the manufacture.

CrufflerJJ | 02-20-2009 01:59 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by moreair (Post 1582105) I have been reading with no luck to my specific questions. Please help or post links to existing threads. 1) I was just given a vacume sealer. Can I use the clear plastic bags and store grains, coffee, pastas, beans long term? And how long would they stay good, 1-2 years? 3-4? 2) If the clear bags are not good for long term, can I use my vacume sealer to vacume and seal the Mylar bags? I see heat sealers for sale for Mylar bags, but will the heat sealer on my vacume sealer work just as good? 3) Can you just toss an oxygen obsorber in a mylar bag and seal it and be done with it, or should you vacume seal it? 4) Is there any advantage in using glass jars over mylar bags other than to keep mice out? I don't have mice. (cat) 5) If I get masson jars, can I just put oxygen obsorbers in it, or do I need to buy a vacume sealer jar attachement? Thanks for any advice.:smile:
If you were just given a vacuum (not "vacume") sealer, it is probably a Tilia Foodsaver style unit. These require bags with a textured interior, as mentioned by Glass. They are PRICEY, which is why I sold my Foodsaver on Fleabay & got a generic snorkel style vacuum sealer. Anywhoooo, see my babblings on this topic in a couple GIM threads: http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...d.php?t=338528 http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...d.php?t=333998 The clear bags are better than nothing, and are great for stuff you're putting in the freezer to prevent freezer burn, but I DO NOT recommend them for long term storage of "stuff." The regular nylon/LDPE laminated bags (clear heat sealable vacuum bags) are not a very good barrier against oxygen or spice aromas. This means that eventually, your spices will lose their flavors, and oil containing foods (nuts, brown rice, some grains) will oxidize & become rancid. Not good. If you seal spices or coffee inside a regular Foodsaver bag, you'll be able to smell the odor through the bag (this might take a while, or require putting the sealed spices/coffee in a cabinet, but it will happen). This tells me that the bag is not much of a barrier to maintain quality/freshness. Mylar bags are much better for sealing stuff for the long term (especially the 7 mil thick #10 can sized bags available through ldscatalog.com). This is why vacuum packed coffee "bags" are made of mylar. Once properly sealed in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers, your stuff should last for years. From the stuff I've read, mylar bag shelf lives tend to be shorter than canned shelf lives. I'm not sure if this is due to steel cans being a batter oxygen barrier than mylar, or what. In any case, your stuff should be good for years & years in mylar with oxygen absorbers. Your heat sealer may or may not be able to work with mylar bags. My snorkel unit works well with thinner 4.5 mil thick mylar bags, but is iffy with the 7 mil thick LDS bags. I've switched to using an iron (set on "wool" setting) to seal small & bucket sized mylar bags. Put your stuff in the bag, toss in an oxygen absorber (or 3-4 for pails), push out as much of the air as possible, then run the iron across the opening of the bag (which is sitting on a 2"x4" for a nice smooth, hard surface). After a day or so, the bags look nice & "sucked in", showing that it's got a good seal and the oxygen absorbers have done their thing. Yes, you could vacuum mylar bags in addition to the oxygen absorbers, but the smooth walls of mylar bags will not work with Tilia Foodsaver style vacuum sealers. You asked if there was any advantage to glass jars over mylar bags. As you mentioned, mice can do a number on mylar bags. So can accidental pinholes/punctures caused by handling/storage. I store all my "stuff" (except the things I've pressure canned, like meat) in mylar bags. Those bags go into some sort of rigid walled container, such as 5 gal plastic pails. If you've got a "mouseproof" cabinet (with nice tight seams, no holes allowing entry), then stashing the mylar bags in cardboard box should be OK. I do this with mylar bagged spices. I think ImaCannin does storage in mason jars, rather than mylar bags (from what I recall). You might PM her. As long as you have a good seal, the oxy absorber itself should do the job inside a jar (the lid should pop down as the oxygen is absorbed). For jars of spices that you open frequently, the FoodSaver mason jar lid sealer might be a good approach (without oxygen absorbers). Hope this helped.

CrufflerJJ | 02-20-2009 02:04 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by moreair (Post 1583105) How long would expect oats, rice and noodles to last in your set up? Oats stay good in their original container for little over a year acording to the manufacture.
In mylar bags with oxy absorbers, rice should last ~20 years. Wheat/Rye/Barley should go 20-30 years. Oats about the same. Noodles might depend on whether they contain eggs - I'd GUESS (emphasis on guess) they'd go about 5-7 years. If you Google "LDS shelf life", you should be able to find some good shelf life info. One thing I forgot in my previous posting...if you pack pasta in mylar bags, WATCH OUT to make sure the sharp edges (spaghetti) don't poke through the bag. I packed a bunch of spaghetti in pails yesterday, and had it sitting inside a paper bag inside the 5 gal mylar bag, to (hopefully) prevent punctures.

moreair | 02-20-2009 10:54 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Thanks for taking the time to post this information. It was very educational for me, as I am new to food preps. Right now all I have is about $200.00 in canned foods. I have a looooong way to go considering I have four children and a wife. Is it resonable to assume that the cans of food I have from the store will last a year or two past the manufacture's exp date? Thanks again.

Hugo Chavez | 02-20-2009 11:04 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Be aware the biggest problem with vacuum sealing with bags imo is "poking through". Wrapping the ends of spaghetti with paper towel helps but I have "lost seal" on macaroni and other sharp items. With powders such as potato granules I have had good luck just by positioning the sealer above the bag, not beside. I use the no-name bags for vacuum sealers- half price. Don't forget to rotate. Fwiw.

ImaCannin | 02-21-2009 01:02 AM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume The 1/2 gallon canning jars work good too, and you can reuse them year after year! http://ACE.imageg.net/graphics/produ...-957280reg.jpg You can order them at Ace Hardware and they deliver them for free to the nearest Ace Hardware store. You will also need the lid attachment to go on top of the jar. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg Amazon Amazon If you have access to a sams club or costco, you can find beans and rice there and dry can your own. I posted a thread on beans at http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=349460 "I recently bought 125 lbs of red beans. They cost about 23.00 per 25 lbs. I usually cook one cup, which feeds me and hubby for one meal. When you break it down it cost approximately .18 cents per serving. In one number 10 can, I get a little over 12 cups in it. So each can will be 12 meals for the two of us or 24 servings. I am really impressed with the small red beans. The taste great and do good in chile too. They did not seem like they took as long to cook as some of the other beans." Beans can go a long way for a cheap price!

Atlantalan | 02-21-2009 01:46 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaCannin (Post 1584384) The 1/2 gallon canning jars work good too, and you can reuse them year after year! http://ACE.imageg.net/graphics/produ...-957280reg.jpg You can order them at Ace Hardware and they deliver them for free to the nearest Ace Hardware store. You will also need the lid attachment to go on top of the jar. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg http://www.amazon.com/FoodSaver-T03-..._bxgy_hg_img_c If you have access to a sams club or costco, you can find beans and rice there and dry can your own. I posted a thread on beans at http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=349460
Based on Ima's suggestion about Jars, that is what I chose to do a while back ... and have about 56 1/2 Jars put away so far... very simple process and put away about 3 more each week ... Ima, if you don't mind me asking ... can you put flour in these too? I am trying to figure out how to store my flour now ... got tons of beans, dried veggies, nuts, etc ... but, not sure on flour in Jars?

dupontcobb | 02-21-2009 03:50 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume I have "canned" flour in the glass jars. I have also done brown and white sugar, Bisquit, pancake mix, etc.

CrufflerJJ | 02-21-2009 04:02 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by moreair (Post 1584265) Is it resonable to assume that the cans of food I have from the store will last a year or two past the manufacture's exp date? Thanks again.
Yup, pretty reasonable. Some stuff (like SPAM) lasts forever. Most canned goods are still good for 1+ years after their "best by" date. Flavors/nutritional value may drop off, but as long as they're stored under reasonable conditions, they should still be in good shape.

ImaCannin | 02-21-2009 08:57 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume 4 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantalan (Post 1584968) Based on Ima's suggestion about Jars, that is what I chose to do a while back ... and have about 56 1/2 Jars put away so far... very simple process and put away about 3 more each week ... Ima, if you don't mind me asking ... can you put flour in these too? I am trying to figure out how to store my flour now ... got tons of beans, dried veggies, nuts, etc ... but, not sure on flour in Jars?
Yes you can, you just need to leave extra head space. The first time I did powder sugar, I did not leave enough room and it went up my hose! Attachment 63951 Fill the jars and tap the jars on the counter to pack it. Attachment 63952 Wipe your rim and put the canning lid on. Attachment 63953 Put the white lid on and turn on. You can see the flour was pulling up in this picture. Attachment 63954 Whamo, you have canned flour! I dont use an oxy absorber on stuff I will be using in a few months. Sometimes on the flour, I freeze it for a week in the big bag to kill creepy crawly's! Make sure you let it get to room temp before you can it.

hypervel | 02-21-2009 09:08 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Vac packers for food?????? Hmmmm. You can't eat .22, but it never stopped me.....

Merlin | 02-21-2009 09:52 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by moreair (Post 1584265) Is it resonable to assume that the cans of food I have from the store will last a year or two past the manufacture's exp date?
I have canned chicken breast with a best used by date of June 2006 and is still perfectly OK now in February 2009. Check out this link; I think you'll be impressed. I've stopped worrying about "best used by" dates for the most part. We're talking about survival food here, people. But, as usual, do a first-in, first-out rotation. Even when stored with O2 absorbers, some foods like powdered milk, eggs, cheese, etc. have a recommended shelf life that is much shorter. I believe that is probably because of enzymes which cause the products to be unstable, even in the absence of oxygen. While I have no first-hand experience, I am cautious with my expectations for longterm storage of these products. You can pre-treat veggies by blanching, treating with lemon juice, etc. to deactivate these enzymes. That's probably hard to do with powdered eggs and cheese :)

ImaCannin | 02-21-2009 09:55 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin (Post 1585748) I have canned chicken breast with a best used by date of June 2006 and is still perfectly OK now in February 2009. Check out this link; I think you'll be impressed.
I think they just put a date on the food so you throw it away and go buy more!

moreair | 02-21-2009 11:38 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Merlin, thanks for that link. It lets me know this is a long term investment and not a bunch of food I have to scarf down in a year or two. Ima, that was a great picture of the jars. If I did not have the canning attachment, could I just toss in an oxygen obsorber and screw the lid on?

ImaCannin | 02-21-2009 11:44 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by moreair (Post 1585880) Merlin, thanks for that link. It lets me know this is a long term investment and not a bunch of food I have to scarf down in a year or two. Ima, that was a great picture of the jars. If I did not have the canning attachment, could I just toss in an oxygen obsorber and screw the lid on?
I think so. But not sure, I have not tried it! If you read thru this thread, it gives all kinds of info. I think someone said they did it (maybe Tech Guy) http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=260256

ImaCannin | 02-21-2009 11:49 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Also look on this page for more pictures of spaghetti in the 1/2 gallon jars. http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...=349460&page=2

argentos | 02-22-2009 06:02 AM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaCannin (Post 1585754) I think they just put a date on the food so you throw it away and go buy more!
In the UK we have two types of dates: 'Best Before' and 'Use By'. 'Use by' means what it says. 'Best before' only refers to possible loss of flavour and or texture and has nothing to do with safety. http://www.fsascience.net/2009/01/14..._but_keep_safe On bag sealing I use the criss-cross bags which are the only type to evacuate properly with my machine. The few problems I have had are the piercing by sharp food mentioned by others and failure to seal properly if I have been careless and got a tiny bit of powder in the sealing area.

Merlin | 02-22-2009 08:36 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by moreair (Post 1585880) If I did not have the canning attachment, could I just toss in an oxygen obsorber and screw the lid on?
The proper sized O2 absorber will absorb virtually all the oxygen in a glass canning jar. Since air is roughly 20% oxygen, that means that O2 absorbers alone will create a heck of a vacuum to seal the jar. If you fill the jar reasonably full (not so far that the O2 absorber interfers with the lid--that can cause a failed seal if the edge of the O2 absorber slips underneath the rubber compound) and screw the lid on tight, an hour or so later, if you are in the room when it happens, you will hear the "ping" when the little bubble on the lid collapses and the lid seals. That's a very satisfying sound! At that point, you don't actually need the ring anymore. I sometimes leave mine on anyway; in case something goes wrong with the seal, at least the lid is held in place mechanically.

CrufflerJJ | 02-22-2009 09:13 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin (Post 1587242) you will hear the "ping" when the little bubble on the lid collapses and the lid seals. That's a very satisfying sound!
I love to hear that ping sound on freshly canned goodies!

ImaCannin | 02-22-2009 10:05 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Me too! I usually go sit at the computer while they are cooling and count my pings! I have a Border collie that it scares! he runs off when the pingin' begins!

RaccoonRiverRadical | 02-22-2009 11:23 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume I canned all weekend. The ping is indeed a satisfying sound. Also vacuum sealed with my brand new Foodsaver. I'm sorry to hear I may have purchased the wrong vacuum sealer.

moreair | 02-22-2009 11:42 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume I took the first step. I ordered::emotions16: * 5 five gallon buckets from Emergency Essentials. * 25 five gallon mylar bags from Frugal's * 25 one gallon Mylar bags * 10 2000cc Absorbers * 50 300cc Absorbers Going to make a trip to Sam's Club next week and get started. Also, it does not appear that my Rival food sealer has any type of vacuum port for canning. Like I said it was free and is a cheap sealer.

MagpieFairy | 02-22-2009 11:43 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by RaccoonRiverRadical (Post 1587562) I canned all weekend. The ping is indeed a satisfying sound. Also vacuum sealed with my brand new Foodsaver. I'm sorry to hear I may have purchased the wrong vacuum sealer.
FoodSavers aren't necessarily bad... I've gone through 2 of them,tho. I finally laid down the $$ for this one. I just discovered that it will also use the FoodSaver jar attachments to vacuum my storage jars. YAy!

moreair | 02-27-2009 10:39 AM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Can I reuse the mason jar lids? If not on liquids, how about reuseing them on powders?

maddyn99 | 02-27-2009 10:46 AM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by moreair (Post 1597285) Can I reuse the mason jar lids? If not on liquids, how about reuseing them on powders?
You can reuse the rings, but you need new lids each time if you are canning. You can buy just the lids and they are super cheap compared to having something not seal right and poison yourself or others. If your dry storing with a vacuum sealer and not for long term storage your OK as long as the lid stays popped down.

dupontcobb | 02-27-2009 11:01 AM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Anyone looking for canning supplies at Ace hardware: Saturday 2/28 save 20% off almost anything you can stuff in a bag. Power tools and small appliances get a 10% discount. Discount applies to regular price of in-stock merchandise that can fit inside the bag a one time. Individual items can be up to twice bag height, however multiple stacked items cannot exceed the height of the bag. Merchandise must be in original packaging. The first 50 customers in each store receive a free reusable ace tote bag - tote bag can be used instead of paper bag for 20% (10%) off. Check your local Ace hardware store to see if they are participating. I am going to go and see if I can get the 1/2 gallon jars in the bag/tote. If not, get smaller size jars.

RaccoonRiverRadical | 02-27-2009 11:22 AM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpieFairy (Post 1587588) FoodSavers aren't necessarily bad... I've gone through 2 of them,tho. I finally laid down the $$ for this one. I just discovered that it will also use the FoodSaver jar attachments to vacuum my storage jars. YAy!
That one looks made to last. The main concern of mine is I don't relish being gouged on the bags.

MagpieFairy | 02-27-2009 11:37 AM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Quote:
Originally Posted by RaccoonRiverRadical (Post 1597377) That one looks made to last. The main concern of mine is I don't relish being gouged on the bags.
I hate that, too..... it's hard to buy something like that with a limited life usage. I try to get the most out of them when I can.... I always seal right at the edge instead of closer to the contents. Then when I cut it open to use part of the contents, I still have enough bag to just reseal it. Also, when emptying dry contents, I save the bags to bag up any stinky leftovers or meat or fat products that can't go into the compost pile. Seal it up, throw it away and the garbage doesn't stink..... I do store a LOT of stuff in mason jars, so really, that's where I'm saving the $$$ on storage containers. I'm one of those folks who don't use plastic containers.

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AMforPM | 02-27-2009 12:59 PM
Re: Food Storage Questions, Vacume Having gotten (and still getting) excellent service from my foodsaver, I am now interested in diversifying to gallon jar / oxygen absorber methods. That is a very appealing storage method. Everyone should remember that storage temperature greatly changes storage life. At 85 degrees food loses years of keeping well compared to at 65 degrees. Also many grains arrive with weevil eggs. A vacuum or time in a freezer keep them from growing up into food munching beetles in storage. Wheat keeps nearly forever it it is bug free, rodent protected, unground and kept cool and dry, but a very short time as flour. If you plan to bake you probably need a hand wheat grinder. We plan to use wheat as a sprout or a cereal to save labor and fuel, though fresh bread is certainly a delight. Brown rice needs cool temperature to keep well. Otherwise it is subject to oils going rancid. I store parboiled white rice, though it is nutritionally inferior, to avoid this, and add back nutrients by having other whole grains cooked in the rice, or served separately. Corn makes a lot of quick and skillet breads and corn meal keeps much better than flour.

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