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DogFarm | 10-11-2007 12:44 PM
Polytech m-14 Hey, what do you guys think about the Chinese made M-14s...DF is thinking of picking one up.

The Argent Dragon | 10-11-2007 12:47 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFarm (Post 773615) Hey, what do you guys think about the Chinese made M-14s...DF is thinking of picking one up.
Sounds pretty cool to me........pics ?

The Argent Dragon | 10-11-2007 12:52 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 Found this in a quick search : http://savvysurvivor.com/tfdragbag12.jpg http://savvysurvivor.com/polytech_m14_rifle.htm

SilverCity | 10-11-2007 01:07 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 I owned a Polytech. Fine weapon. Needs heat-treatment of receiver and bolt. I had mine accurized by Ron Smith several years ago...now Smith Enterprises. Heat-treated receiver and bolt, head-spaced and lapped bolt, action bedded, trigger tuned, sights tuned all for ~$450...total investment was $750 for a match grade accurate (sub-MOA) rifle. Cost for above is probably a lot higher now though... But, they are worth the work to make it right. Springfield Armory was so distressed about the influx of Polytechs they went on a propaganda campaign to discredit them and warn buyers they were "junk" and "dangerous to shoot". I got a stack of these "Bubba gun tests" with my new Springfield M1A... ...don't get me started on Springfield Armory... Anyway, what will you have to pay for this rifle?

DogFarm | 10-11-2007 01:27 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 The guy wants $800 for the rifle plus $800 for the scope. The scope is a brand I don't recognize. Don't know much about the rifle...a guy needed to raise bail money and sold this rifle to the shop. Has a wood stock, one mag, and that's about it. There's a gun show in Denver this weekend and I will ask around then I think.

SilverCity | 10-11-2007 01:49 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 Bail money? And you don't know any more about the gun's history? Hmmmm. Price on the rifle is a little high...I would pay $700-750 tops depending on condition and whether or not it has had aforementioned heat-treatment. Without this treatment you may eventually (maybe a few 1000's of rounds) see cracks in the bolt/receiver or stretching resulting in excessive headspace, neither of which you want. If you can, negotiate an lower price. The scope sounds like it might be an ART scope sold by Springfield. Pricey. And not worth it to me. Scoping any M1A can be somewhat problematic and usually results in a scope that sits uncomfortably high over the bore making a poor cheek weld or necessitating a cheekpiece added to the stock. Do-able but a little more difficult... My humble opinion? I would pass on this unless I could find out more about it's history... I am sure you know about PTRs and FALs and Saigas...?

The Argent Dragon | 10-11-2007 02:02 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 post ban fal these are hot we have tested and approved them both Carbine and rifle $850 http://www.urban-armory.com/images/faln.jpg http://www.urban-armory.com/justin.htm This is what you need for that price range.........FWIW - I bought my RPK for $700 at a local gun show. :wink:

SilverCity | 10-11-2007 02:13 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 1 Attachment(s) Nice! Fals are my first choice... Also look at the Saiga...~$350-400...add ~$120 for POSP scope

wallew | 10-11-2007 02:13 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 773649) I owned a Polytech. Fine weapon. Needs heat-treatment of receiver and bolt. I had mine accurized by Ron Smith several years ago...now Smith Enterprises. Heat-treated receiver and bolt, action bedded, trigger tuned all for ~$450...total investment was $750 for a match grade accurate (sub-MOA) rifle. Cost for above is probably a lot higher now though... But, they are worth the work to make it right.
I can't speak specifically to the Polytech, but I've owned two Norinco M1A's. Being a gunsmith, the FIRST thing I do is 'debarrel' the rifle and send the receiver over to my guy who does my heat treating. He sent both back, no charge. Said they both topped 60 on the Rockwell scale of hardness. He said that it was a waste of time, as he couldn't do any better. Maybe the Poly's receivers ARE softer. I can't say. I can say that if you buy ANY chinese M1A, replace the trigger group and bolt at the very least with USA made 'match grade' parts. You won't be disappointed. And don't forget to 'hand lap' the bolt for a solid close. EVERY NM bolt should have this done. Doesn't take more than an hour or so. I just sit in front of my TV and do it. You can tell you've finished when the edges of the front of the bolt show a triangular spot of shiney metal, which means it now closes completely. AND generally lock up time is NO LONGER an issue. I even 'upgraded' one of my Norinco's with a NM barrel. Then took them both to the range. Damned if they BOTH didn't shoot MOA. So I stopped buying the NM USA barrels as it didn't seem necessary. A GOOD M1A, properly tuned is WELL WORTH AT LEAST $1000. Not that you need to pay that. But they ARE worth it. Having said that, I recently read an article on DS Arms. The are making what some people call 'the best FN FAL' ever to be made. Apparently they purchased all the old tooling, parts, etc from FN when they stopped making this fine battle rifle (now 50 years old). Note the price starts at $1850 and goes up from there. All their receivers are CNC machined. If you want to read the article, it's in the Nov 2007 Tactical Weapons magazine on pgs 40 - 43. Good article and good history of the FN FAL. DF, are you going to the Tanner show this weekend (10/13 - 14) or the Crossroads show at the end of the month? Also, consider looking at the PSL FPK Dragunov rifle. $730 from Classic Arms about a quarter of the way down the page. Shoots 7.62x54R, a healthy round for sure. And right now the ammo is not TOO bad at 1200 round case for $200 (plus s&h). http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...3&d=1190393363

DogFarm | 10-11-2007 02:45 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 Probably Tanner.

The Argent Dragon | 10-11-2007 03:07 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFarm (Post 773812) Probably Tanner.
How 'bout.......I wouldn't give that Polytech to my dog ?!? :D :sarc:

money matters | 10-11-2007 04:17 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 What Wallew doesn't understand is that the NM barrel is contoured deliberately to be heavy for Service Rifle Match shooting so the rifle will balance better and recoil less during standing and rapidfire strings. A heavy barrel will also absorb more heat giving it potentially better performance in sustained fire situations. So, an issue contour barrel might shoot with a NM barrel, from a rest and with routine waits for cool down, but is unlikely to do so at 300yd and 600yd distances where the NM barrel shines under match conditions, ie firing 10 shots in 70 seconds for score. Another fact is very few Service Rifle competitors win points or matches shooting an M1 or M14 rifle. Although they qualify and are entered, the AR-15 delivers more consistent results, even out to 600 yds where you would think the heavy .308 match bullets would reign supreme. I doubt you need a NM trigger assy or bolt to achieve 1moa performance in a non-competitive rifle. Pretty doubtful that you are going to get a "deal" on your Poly-tech. The real "deal" would be to purchase a ready to go Springfield Armory which will not need any work done to the receiver and is a proven commodity that will increase in value. You might find one for $1000 in a pawn shop. The M-14 is a pita to scope. If you plan to scope your rifle, you'd do better to choose an AR-10 from Armalite, The FAL is maybe even worse to scope than the M-14, and heavier, two drawbacks. The H-K G3 also sucks when it comes to scope systems, unless you want the Hensoldt 4z as your only option. The AR-10 is capable of much finer accuracy, has many fine competition triggers and accessories available, also has a superior stock system to that of the M-14. The AR-10 also has the capacity to interchange upper receiver assys within seconds. Very easy to interchange barrels with only a few tools and minimal understanding of "gunsmithing". Pretty easy to get a rack grade M-14 to shoot 1moa, there are lots of military contractor parts out there to "improve" on those the PolyTech was built with, just no longer inexpensively available. After you get through "building" your PolyTech, you will be out more money and lots more time, than if you'd just bought an SA, and you will have an "improved" Asian copy of The American Legend. The AR-10 is a super-performing platform for almost any purpose, and demonstrably superior to any other battle rifle for scope and accessory mounting. I would watch the gun auction sites, forums and study-up on what weapons hold their value and deliver fulfillment of your goals. I own an SA rack grade M1a purchased in 1991, assembled with all mil contractor # parts. I added NM sights and did the NM gas cylinder mod and it shoots very nicely. Compared to my AR-10 it is a relic. Before you plunk down your dough, investigate all the options and read the forum groups where guys discuss the problems they are having with all the mods and hotrodding they try to get that "perfect rifle". For $700 for use with iron sights, if all you want is a .308 blaster, the PolyTech is a fine choice. Buy it, shoot the hell out of it and don't look back. It will probably group better than you can hold. Good luck!

The Argent Dragon | 10-11-2007 04:47 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 Perhaps you should still go the AK route and save some major $ bucks $ My RPK has a 'heavy' barrel just like money matters is talking about. Do a little homework ~ it's worthwhile........and Global Arms who built my rifle uses the heavier receivers too (US made). I betcha it'll outshoot any darn Springfield......or at least be dead on at HALF the price. :tongue_ma: Here's a Yugo RPK (mines the Romanian version) : <TABLE id=AutoNumber2 style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" height=46 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle width="100%" colSpan=2> http://www.centerfiresystems.com/Pro...AGUN-RPK-B.jpg Email this to a friend </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=ProdDisplay1>AK RPK Rifle with Bipod Part #AKAGUN-RPK </TD><TD class=ProdDisplay1 align=right>AKAGUN-RPK </TD></TR><TR><TD width="100%" colSpan=2></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE id=AutoNumber3 style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" height=43 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=ProdDisplay2 align=middle width="20%"></TD><TD class=ProdDisplay2 align=middle width="20%"></TD><TD class=ProdDisplay2 align=middle width="20%">Price </TD><TD class=ProdDisplay2 align=middle width="20%">Qty </TD><TD class=ProdDisplay2 align=middle width="20%"> </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=center align=middle width="20%" height=37></TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle width="20%" height=37></TD><TD vAlign=center align=middle width="20%" height=37>$699.99 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> http://www.centerfiresystems.com/ind...ROD&ProdID=837

SilverCity | 10-11-2007 05:29 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 A lot of us experienced gun types have own our preferences...I have mine. But the deciding factors in purchasing a firearm for me should be practical ones. Today, the cost of ammo has become one of the primary factors. I do gun shows around the SW and find that most people ask, "what will it cost me to shoot this thing?" Another factor would be "under what situation would I use this?" Half MOA accuracy can cost a lot of money for that privilege. Match quality rifles are expensive and so is the cost of match ammo whether you handload or purchase factory match. Military surplus 308 ammo is priced about where Federal Match was a few years ago and for many is cost prohibitive. Are you planning to shoot competitively? No? Do you want a Main Battle Rifle? One used by militaries around the world? One proven in combat? Are you going to shoot at bad guys 600 yards away and give away your position? How much do extra magazines cost?---you should have LOTS of them. How readily can I find parts and accessories? These are some questions I would ask. By the way, my Saiga 308 with 21 inch pipe will shoot 1-2 MOA with irons using mil surplus ball. Add a scope and I shoot a little better. ~$350 rifle, $50 mount, $75 scope.

wallew | 10-12-2007 01:48 AM
Re: Polytech m-14 MM, Actually what I DO understand is that once again you have posted so much incorrect and misinformation that for now, I'm just gonna let it slide. I DO PROMISE to beat you about the head and shoulders on ALL the things you got wrong in a day or two. Basically your premise that "Another fact is very few Service Rifle competitors win points or matches shooting an M1 or M14 rifle. Although they qualify and are entered" is completely FALSE. M1 Garand and M14 shooters win shoots ALL THE TIME. You are just apparently unaware of it. As you are also apparently 'unaware' of the Camp Perry shoot for two weeks every year. From one of the websites that EXPLAINS this kind of stuff to you: 4. Shooting. Let's first define our terms. Do you want to shoot the first week or the second week? The first week is the CMP matches or also known as the "Board Matches." The first week is for Service Rifles ONLY (M-1 Garands, M-14/M-1A or M-16/AR-15s). There are no separate classifications the first week, the Marksman shoot against the Masters and High Masters. Because the entry fees are so much cheaper, you pay less and you shoot less than the second week, therefore a far greater # of competitors. http://www.jarheadtop.com/article_campperry.html One of my gunsmithing buddies worked for the AMU as an armorer. He went to the Camp Perry shoot two years running. He spent MOST of his time 'banging back to straight' all those M14 op rods that bent during the matches. Dude, you know SO LITTLE about firearms, shooting in general and MILITARY firearms in specific you should either S2 or be prepared to ONCE AGAIN be embarrassed beyond belief. I'll take that chore on later tomorrow or Saturday. For everyone else, believe MM if you want. But as on EVERY OTHER FIREARMS ISSUE HE HAS SPOKEN ON HERE, he is completely INCORRECT AGAIN! :no_ma: Having said that, the M14 was an 'outdated' design as SOON as the US MILITARY adopted it (maybe even BEFORE they adopted it). But it fired the same '30 caliber' bullet as all the previous iterations of battle rifles the US Military had adopted (1903 Springfield, M1 Garand) so it got the nod. It was ALSO the LAST weapon designed BY the US MILITARY. From that point forward, the US Military put those kinds of designs and purchases up for bid, did extensive testing and then purchased large lots of weapons from different manufacturers. Instead of coming up with a design themselves (or contracting out several companies to design a specific weapon and then picking the one they wanted). Damn, I feel like I've taken the job of instructor at my old gunsmithing school, which I turned down once already several years ago.

Squirrel Bait | 10-12-2007 11:59 AM
Re: Polytech m-14 Hey Silver, can you tell us more about the Saiga. How does it compare to the AK. Is it chromed just like the AK? reliable? Is it just 7.62x39 or does it also come in .308. What accuracy on the .308? 16 or 21 inch barrel? I've seen them advertised and the price looks great but???? SB

SilverCity | 10-12-2007 01:09 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 Saigas are made at the Izhmash factory which makes rifles for the Russian military. They are "sporterized" AKs and are available in .223, 7.62x39, and .308 Owners love them for their low cost, accuracy, reliability, durability. Yes they all have chrome-lined bores. I have a few myself...excellent for entry level or economy-minded folks...I highly recommend them... Check out: forum.Saiga-12.com Should answer any questions...

money matters | 10-12-2007 02:14 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 It is pretty amazing to see you prove your ineptitude constantly here, Wallew. Got those Norinco/Chi-Com barrels shooting as well as a US Made Natl Match barrel (at what? 50yds?) so you can't tell the difference? Dude! It is a Good Thing you are retired! The shoemaker's children are said to go without shoes. Maybe the gunsmith doesn't know everything there is to know about match rifles? Seems that way to me. You've never built a match rifle, have you? I think if you look at the Service Rifle competition results, you'll find most competitors place with, and win with AR-15 rifles. I am still chuckling over your remark about how Brownells would sell you a Remington 700 action because you have a gunsmithing degree. Not unless you are an FFL licensee they won't. Yeah, you give great advice, not! Buy that polytech, $700? Dismount the barrel $75 Heat treat the receiver $100 New NM trigger grp & bolt $400 Then you gonna put that rackgrade barrel back on the blaster? Cost another $75 to put the barrel back on; so you've advised spending $1300+ to make a polytech nothing more than a match-triggered blaster??? I would advise anyone seriously contemplating spending Real Money on an M1 or M1a visit Fulton Armory's website. They actually MIGHT have the parts Wallew suggests, likely cost a helluva lot more than $400, but check it out. Clint McKee has done a lot of conversions to all sorts of M1 and M14 receivers including full rebuilds. A decent rifle from Fulton is pretty spendy. http://www.fulton-armory.com/ A visit there shows that a new NM trigger group is $315, and a new complete bolt (no such thing as a NM bolt) is another $269. Want a new barrel also? Maybe chrome lined? Pony up another $300, more to install it. Look, there are no free or even cheap lunches in the M14 world. Wally Wallew wants to "advise" you, you better be sure he is talking planet earth 2007 prices, and then be sure you can wait about a year to get your gunsmith worked over rifle back. Yeah, and all the NRA Service Rifle shooters are ponying up the big bux for M1a and M1 rifles; maybe 25 yrs ago they were, but not now. AR-10 rifles are a common platform for NRA High-Power shooters, but since it was never adapted as a "service" rifle by the US Military, it cannot be used in Service Rifle competition, otherwise there would be no Garand action rifles fired there at all. The PolyTech is bound to be a fun blaster rifle. I sure caution against buying one with the intent of accurizing it heavily. Such is what I have stated.

wallew | 10-13-2007 04:07 AM
Re: Polytech m-14 Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 775703) Got those Norinco/Chi-Com barrels shooting as well as a US Made Natl Match barrel (at what? 50yds?) so you can't tell the difference?
Apparently you don't understand MOA. And yeah, I DID that at 100 (three shots into 1 inch), 150 (1.5 inch) and 200 yards (2 inches). Which was what my client and I discussed before I built this one on spec. And that's what he got. Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 775703) You've never built a match rifle, have you?
Yep, several. But only for customers willing to pay big bucks for them. There are so many people, just like you, who don't have a clue what it takes. You don't appear to have ANY experience and don't even know how to operate a machine shop. WITHOUT WHICH NO ONE CAN EVER BUILD A MATCH GRADE RIFLE. So, whose mill or lathe do you use? Oh, that's right, you don't know how to use a mill or lathe. And you just can't seem to come up with one picture that shows us any thing you've ever built. You do know the old saying, right? A picture is worth.... Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 775703) I think if you look at the Service Rifle competition results, you'll find most competitors place with, and win with AR-15 rifles.
Yeah, I just love it when you use the words like 'MOST'. Even you admit that the M1 Garand and the M14 have won this competition, which is EXACTLY WHAT I SAID. It's the shooter that decides who wins. A well built rifle is a must, but if you can't 'pull the trigger' on the win, you ain't shit, just like your knowledge. Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 775703) I am still chuckling over your remark about how Brownells would sell you a Remington 700 action because you have a gunsmithing degree. Not unless you are an FFL licensee they won't.
Folks, this statement should JUMP OUT at you. WHY? Because you don't NEED to have an FFL to do business with Brownells to buy their Rem 700 actions. ALL YOU NEED is for a LICENSED FFL HOLDER to receive it FOR YOU and then run your background check. Several of my gunsmithing buddies around town are ALWAYS glad to receive any items that need to be processed through the NCIS for me. Generally at a reduced rate (we swap favors, I do computer stuff for one and buy stuff off of eBay for another that really dislikes eBay for some reason - more on the 'swapping favors' later). MM is such a MORON he doesn't even REALIZE the simplest things that have to do with the firearms industry. Has ANYONE HERE purchased a firearm over the internet, had it shipped to their local gun shop, paid their fee for the NCIS check (plus most add a 'handling fee') and then YOU pick up the firearm YOU BOUGHT? ARE ANY OF YOU DOING THIS FFL HOLDERS? NO, you are not. NEITHER IS MM, or he would have known this, which he does NOT. Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 775703) Buy that polytech, $700? Dismount the barrel $75 Heat treat the receiver $100 New NM trigger grp & bolt $400 Then you gonna put that rackgrade barrel back on the blaster? Cost another $75 to put the barrel back on; so you've advised spending $1300+ to make a polytech nothing more than a match-triggered blaster???
NEVER SAID ANY OF THAT. I did say I did this work for myself when I was in school - with ONE specific customer in mind when I did so - it's called a spec build - as in I SPECULATED that I had a customer for this particular rifle - who when he picked this rifle up, he got such a large shit eating grin that he couldn't give me his money fast enough to suit him. That weapon sold for $1000, but that included a SA scope mount (best on the market for the M1A at the time) with a Nikon scope on it. Shot sub MOA. And I SAID it was a NORINCO. I also said I rebarreled ONE M1A and kept the other with it's Chicom barrel. I ALSO said that NONE of the NORINCO receivers NEEDED to be heat treated. But apparently actually reading what I said is too difficult for MM. And yeah, the M1A that I rebarreled was the one I sold for $1000. IN 1998. Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 775073) I would advise anyone seriously contemplating spending Real Money on an M1 or M1a visit Fulton Armory's website. They actually MIGHT have the parts Wallew suggests, likely cost a helluva lot more than $400, but check it out. Clint McKee has done a lot of conversions to all sorts of M1 and M14 receivers including full rebuilds. A decent rifle from Fulton is pretty spendy. http://www.fulton-armory.com/
OMG, MM FINALLY got ONE right, kind of (it HAD to happen eventually, even a BROKEN CLOCK is 'right' twice a day). See below where I show where once again MM can't even read FULTONS site correctly. And you want to know something MM? After discussing job possibilities WITH Fulton Armory, BACK IN 1998, I decided I really didn't want to live anywhere NEAR Washington, DC. Fulton is about one hour from DC. And CLINT is a really nice guy. I occasionally send my customers his way if they want a 'great' M1 or M1 Garand or M1A - I'm not real big on 'reinventing the wheel' - Clints work is top notch. Hell, H&K is just OUTSIDE DC, so after talking with them at this same time, I just 'gave up' on working for one of the several gun manufacturers in the Eastern US. I've just got no desire to live EAST of the Mississippi river. Just funny that way. Seems to me that decision turned out to be a valid one. At this time, my wife had an offer to move to DC for her job. They would have moved us, free and covered all sorts of misc expenses. She would have had a killer job, but even SHE said living in DC would be 'bad' (her words) and not worth the move, even if the money was double what she was making at that time. Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 775703) A visit there shows that a new NM trigger group is $315, and a new complete bolt (no such thing as a NM bolt) is another $269. Want a new barrel also? Maybe chrome lined? Pony up another $300, more to install it.
MM is correct about the current pricing FROM FULTON (they us US Mil surplus NM parts - just like I do - some of which I buy from Fulton). Prices are constantly GOING UP. And no, NO NM BOLT - but you will want a US bolt to hand lap - not the Chinese ones - they are horrendous. YOU HAVE TO DO THAT YOURSELF. Like I explained about 'hand lapping' the bolt for a 'perfect' fit. I call IT MY NM bolt. BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T DO THIS, all the other peices mean shit. For those of you who didn't go to gunsmithing school, Brownells sells a 'Bolt Lapping Tool'. But of course, MM DOESN'T KNOW THAT EITHER, DO YOU? http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...+LAPPING+TOOLS Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 775703) Look, there are no free or even cheap lunches in the M14 world. Wally Wallew wants to "advise" you, you better be sure he is talking planet earth 2007 prices, and then be sure you can wait about a year to get your gunsmith worked over rifle back.
And ONCE AGAIN, apparently MM can't READ EVEN FULTONS SITE... M14 Service Rifle, Super Scout and Mark M14 SOCOM rifles,3-4 weeks with your receiver or rifle It's on his FRONT PAGE. Can't miss it. Less than a quarter of the way down. So much for 'waiting a year'... Free? NO. Cheap. Depends on WHO you know and what kind of fees they charge. BEING RETIRED, I ONLY WORK FOR PEOPLE I LIKE. MM WOULD NEVER fall in to that category. Most here can figure out WHY. But for my close group of well heeled friends, if I am asked nicely, I WILL build them almost ANYTHING they want. I can make 'enough' on the parts mark up to make it worth my while. You know that Rem 700 receiver that Brownell sells? I get it for WAY less than the $500 you would pay MM, but you don't know that either. Plus I don't NEED to make a gazillion dollars on each weapon I build. I'M RETIRED. ON PURPOSE. But I still keep my hand in it. I can go to three different shops owned by buddies of mine to have access to three full machine shops. To build anything I want. Now, IT'S YOUR TURN MM. EVER BUILT 'MATCH PISTOLS'. I'll even choose an EASY ONE for you. HOW ABOUT A 1911? Bushingless barrel, cut the front of the slide with extra 'grip serrations' on a three axis dro mill, hand fit the slide to the frame (tight, tight, tight), and all the OTHER little tricks that YOU don't even have a clue about. I have. FOR SEVERAL of my customers. But I hate doing it. EVERYONE does 1911's. I prefer to build stuff that most smiths don't want to because there's generally a really small market and therefore not much money in it. I don't really work on shotguns much anymore, except for building a few of my own and repairing one or two special customers (in the security biz). I've got a 'no serial number' Mossberg 500A down on my bench right now. I don't like the white powder coating finish I had applied. It's just TOO HARD to keep clean. But it does look pretty spiffy. I may give it to a a guy I run into occasionally. He's the Prez of the Colorado chapter of the Sons of Silence motorcycle club. The shotgun is black and white, which are THEIR colors. He'd appreciate this piece. Probably end up being a 'wall hanger' in their clubhouse. And yeah, I SAID GIVE. As in gratis, free, no charge, zip, zero, nada. Sometimes, having someone 'owe you one' is worth way more than the money involved. But again, MM IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY, RIGHT? Perhaps one day you will discover that money actually doesn't matter. Sometimes, having a good set of friends you can trust at your back IS WHAT MATTERS, as I've found out well over twenty years ago. MM, you know so little that it is actually sad. Quote:
Originally Posted by moeny matters (Post 775073) Yeah, and all the NRA Service Rifle shooters are ponying up the big bux for M1a and M1 rifles; maybe 25 yrs ago they were, but not now. AR-10 rifles are a common platform for NRA High-Power shooters, but since it was never adapted as a "service" rifle by the US Military, it cannot be used in Service Rifle competition, otherwise there would be no Garand action rifles fired there at all.
So after all that 'drivel' about how great the AR-10 is and how it will 'out shoot' the M1A and the M1 Garand, MM FINALLY ADMITS THAT IT'S NOT A SERVICE RIFLE FOR THE US MILITARY. Which means it CANNOT COMPETE IN ANY US SERVICE GRADE RIFLE MATCHES, which is what MM goes on and on and on about. :no_ma: And I would never recommend taking a Polytech to build a precision shooter out of. I'm pretty sure even Clint would try and dissuade any customer of his who wanted to use a POLY as the foundation for building a precision shooter out of. You build a house's foundation on sand and it will always end badly. The same with using a POLY. I'm not even sure I'd use a Norinco for building a precision (500+ yard) M1A for ANYONE.

Silvestor | 10-13-2007 05:37 AM
Re: Polytech m-14 Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 773759) Apparently they purchased all the old tooling, parts, etc from FN when they stopped making this fine battle rifle (now 50 years old). Note the price starts at $1850 and goes up from there. All their receivers are CNC machined.
wallew, DSA sells some rifles in the $1200-1400 range. DSA receiver, 6 more US parts, and the rest Austrian parts kit. http://www.dsarms.com/products.asp?dept=9 http://i21.tinypic.com/2m2ulbr.gif

wallew | 10-13-2007 03:20 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 Silvestor, THANK YOU for pointing this out. I flat missed it. Folks, this is a great deal. KUDOS to Silvestor. :wink:

Walter Mitty | 10-13-2007 03:38 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 The thing the Poly-Tech has going for it is, it has a forged receiver. A New Forged receiver will set you back what $900.00 bucks?. Try to buy it without the scope and see what Smith Enterprises would charge to check the receiver and re- heat treat if necessary. Military Surplus M-14 parts are drying up. See what it would cost to get a Military M-14 bolt put in it. Just my .02.

wallew | 10-14-2007 01:14 AM
Re: Polytech m-14 Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Mitty (Post 777423) The thing the Poly-Tech has going for it is, it has a forged receiver. A New Forged receiver will set you back what $900.00 bucks?.
Very true for the forged receiver for the Poly. From Smith Ent site: LRB M14SA Semiautomatic Receiver This is the finest commercial receiver currently available. After an extensive period of collaborative work over the past few years between Smith Enterprise, Inc. and LRB, the superlative LRB M14SA receiver is now better than ever. Forged and machined from 8620 steel. Available only as part of complete rifle build. Contact us for details. FFL Required. http://www.smithenterprise.com/products03.html And it's basically POR. No pricing actually listed. <!-- DOWNLOAD SPECIFICATIONS --> Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Mitty (Post 777423) Try to buy it without the scope and see what Smith Enterprises would charge to check the receiver and re-heat treat if necessary. Military Surplus M-14 parts are drying up. See what it would cost to get a Military M-14 bolt put in it. Just my .02.
I'm glad this has been brought up again. I checked with my guy who does all my heat treating with a call late Friday. $100 to me. He recommended against doing the Poly as HE says some may have issues regarding the 'metalurgy' - too high a nickel content. That's just what he said and I can neither deny nor confirm. So I can't say. Plus a gunsmithing buddy of mine just bought a heat treating oven, as he wants to start heat treating 'Cowboy shooting' parts upon request. He's DYING to try it out, so I might be able to let him do 'one' for me as a test, but that's speculation on my part. Apparently I did NOT make myself clear. I went down to MY parts collection for military arms. Still have a LOT of mil surp parts. Don't have the whole bolt, but I do have firing pins, extractors (with spring and plunger), all of a US Mil surp trigger assembly parts, just no trigger group itself to assemble this onto (for a complete replacement of all trigger group parts). Plus headspace guages (Go & No Go), bolt disassembly tool (mil surp - works for both the M1 Garand and M14) and the gas port set of pliers, plus dummy rounds in .308 & 30-06 for testing cycle of operations in the M14 & the M1 Garand. My parts stock also includes two foot sections of an assortment of spring stock and an assortment of pin stock. I do all the work myself. Doesn't cost me anything. You have no idea how many gun parts I've given away in the past three years or so as I try to 'thin things out a little' in my storage area. Plus 4,000 empty cartridges of .308 to a buddy of mine (freebie to him). I've still got a case (500 rnds) of Federal .308 Win Match - 168 grain Sierra Matchking BTHP Gold Medal Rifle cartridges (empty once fired brass) that I used to buy off of a couple of swat team members regularly. This was their 'practice' ammo. It was beer money for them. I'm hanging onto it for a while longer. I also have the rest of the components, including the 168 grain Sierra Matchking bullets I bought more than nine years ago. Primers and powder are a little newer, as I seem to go through them a little faster than bullets. You would think that primers and bullets used would be a one to one type of thing, but for some reason it's not for me. Can't say why. Nine plus years in the gunsmithing business seems to have netted me a TON of parts that I just can't 'part with' quite yet. Maybe a few more years from now. Until then I never know when I might be asked to do a 'quick repair/replacement' of parts. So being the packrat I am, I hang onto them longer than I probably should. Just my .02

money matters | 10-14-2007 03:05 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 msg removed after one hour.

wallew | 10-14-2007 05:08 PM
Re: Polytech m-14 Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 778531) Wallew, Just a heads up about the wisdom of not posting incriminating anecdotes in a public forum. Unless your good-timing SWAT Team buddies paid for that ammo they sold you for beer money, outa their own pockets, their county or city attorney might have actionable grounds against them and you. Weren't they issued that ammo to fire in practice sessions? If you have an FFL, (and you've never said you do), such a matter could disqualify you from its renewal, or posessing any firearm. I'd still like to see a NM bolt and trigger group for an M1. Maybe there is a NM buttstock trapdoor and NM bolt stop too, eh?
MM, It's scary as to how stupid you really are. This is a county sheriff's swat team who ALWAYS bought their own ammo. The county couldn't afford 'the good stuff' they always said and they were a picky bunch and didn't mind paying for it themselves. I'm not even sure this county even has a swat team any more. This was eight years ago and the economic slump has hit some of the smaller county agencies hard, so cuts have been ongoing for several years. So yeah, the money came out of their pockets, so I was happy to contribute to their beer fund. Not like it's really any of your business where or from whom I purchase my once fired match brass from. I DO NOT HAVE AN FFL. I don't need one. But given you don't actually READ anything I post, that's NOT a surprise that I have to continually repeat myself over and over and over. I neither sell NOR keep any firearms that I repair. I'm a rare breed. I make house calls. OR if it appears that whatever repair you want done can be completed in a short time frame, I invite you to bring your firearm over to me and watch AND LEARN about what I do, how and why. That way there is NEVER any question of what I DID to any given firearm. As the firearm NEVER leaves the possesion of the owner, I'm not breaking any laws. I even talked to the ATF and while the agent didn't want to really say it was OK, I could at least get him to admit I was 'technically' legal. Which was good enough for me. And you so FUNNY. NM TRAPDOOR BUTTSTOCK. WAHAHAHAHA! I never said any of that was available for a M1 Garand. I DID say some of the TOOLS USED on the M14 ALSO work on the M1 Garand (specifcally the BOLT DISASSEMBLY TOOL). But I did say NM TG AND B for an M14. Folks, ever notice that EVERY TIME I explain, in painful detail WHY MM is danerously, stupidly wrong, he goes to another subject, only to have me 'spank him' yet again. Notice how he starts quoting laws to back up his shaky position - trying to sound like an attorney - but with a name like MM, he might just be an attorney. I guess when only MONEY MATTERS TO YOU, this is how YOU do business. Under the table, shady deals, etc. I, on the other hand, operate openly and above board. I always have, I always will. SO, MM are you saying the Smith Enterprise and Fulton Armory are 'CHEATING' their customers when THEY tune your trigger group and bolt and charge you $400 or JUST SELL YOU A NEW NM TG & B $400? Because they actually do both. Because that's what YOU said, earlier in this thread. I'm using YOUR terminolgy. What a fning IDIOT. Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 775703) New NM trigger grp & bolt $400

eat_beef | 10-15-2007 12:26 AM
Re: Polytech m-14 Not to interrupt, but... The Chicom M14s are fine except for the bolts. Many of the early bolts were not properly heat treated, and will go out of headspace. This is all well documented fact. I think Warbird still does USGI bolt installs for 175, and you should be able to find a USGI bolt for 150. The rest of the rifles are fine, with the exception of the rear sights and trigger groups, which aren't all that great, but are certainly serviceable/not dangerous. 800 is too high, chicoms sell in the 6-700frn range all the time, and can occasionally be had for 5 bills. The heel stamped versions (stamped the same way as a M14 or M1 Garand) are generally more sought after than the side stamps. Now back to your regularly scheduled urinating match.:no_ma:

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