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- - Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=260088)

Martian_Time_slip | 04-25-2008 07:20 PM
Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. I've had a small 1 lb bag of rice stored away, never been opened, for about a year. Went to check up on it, and there were little insect critters riddled throughout it. I've never opened the bag, and where I store it, there's no way they could get through the storage area and also through the bag (the bag was still sealed). Makes me believe that the critters are stored in there with the rice. Is there any way to stop this from happening? I thought about freezing it for a few weeks, but it's possible the eggs could still be viable. Any other thoughts?

TechGuy | 04-25-2008 07:28 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Seal in vacuum or with oxy absorbers. Makes life really hard for em. Diatomacious Earth is also supposedly a good option as well. I have never used it. I only store very short term stuff in bags.

Fullpower | 04-25-2008 08:10 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. extra protein.

graspAU | 04-25-2008 08:42 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. The bags even though sealed are full of oxygen. I vacuum seal all my rice now which will kill the bugs and their eggs.

GreenSpirit | 04-25-2008 09:07 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Let me suggest parboiled rice.

Heimdhal | 04-25-2008 09:45 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenSpirit (Post 1079023) Let me suggest parboiled rice.
unless you par boil it yourself, it wont make a difference. parboiled rice is just partial cooked rice that is then pacakged and shipped. If the critters are getting in during the packaging(not that uncomon believe it not) then its parboiled status wont matter much. Vacupack or oxy absorbers are best. Freezy actualy might work even on the eggs, never hurts to try.

GreenSpirit | 04-25-2008 10:01 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1079057) unless you par boil it yourself, it wont make a difference. parboiled rice is just partial cooked rice that is then pacakged and shipped. If the critters are getting in during the packaging(not that uncomon believe it not) then its parboiled status wont matter much. Vacupack or oxy absorbers are best. Freezy actualy might work even on the eggs, never hurts to try.
I've always bought parboiled rice; don't do anything special to protect it and have never had a pest in the rice. Most rice is just kept on the floor somewhere till it's bagged. Parboiled rice is semi-cooked first and then dried and bagged... Parboiling is a nice sanitizing step; It works for me. You buy what you like.:wink:

AMforPM | 04-25-2008 10:19 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. For storage I buy parboiled then vacuum seal it, then put the sealed bags in metal containers. In my experience those weevils somehow can get in the plastic bags beans and rice come in. They are a moth in the stage that attacks. Maybe their puncturing part, like what a mosquito bites with, can puncture light plastic. I realize much dry food ships with eggs already in it, but my unscientific experience is that they can get in light plastic bags.

bsdetector | 04-25-2008 10:23 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Pack with a chunk of hot ice next time, the co2 will kill the bugs.

Martian_Time_slip | 04-26-2008 01:03 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Thanks...what a waste of good rice.

ShirleyUGeste | 04-26-2008 03:32 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. I always freeze my rice, grains, flour, corn meal, etc. as soon as I buy them. Just stack them in the freezer for 4-7 days, which kills all the nits, eggs, and creepy crawlies that may have come with the dry goods. After freezing I open the package and pour the food into 1-gallon jars, seal tightly, and store in a dark, cool place. Lately I've been buying goods in 20 and 25-pound bags. I did as one of the guys here at GIM suggested, and hit all of the bakeries in the area asking for their empty plastic pails. I have 3 bakeries saving them for me and am getting about 12 per week. (One bakery charges me $1 per bucket, the other two bakeries give them to me for free.) Wash pails well, dry thoroughly, line with plastic bags (kitchen garbage bags are perfect), pour in the food straight from the freezer, use twist ties or rubber bands to close bag. After putting the lid on and pounding it down firmly, I use 3" wide tape around the edge of the lid to seal any gaps between the lid and the bucket. Each bucket will hold 25 lbs of beans, rice, split peas, barley, etc. I haven't had any trouble with bugs, but I do keep mousetraps set in the basement pantry, just in case of rodents.

Maddie | 04-26-2008 06:53 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by ShirleyUGeste (Post 1079272) Wash pails well, dry thoroughly, line with plastic bags (kitchen garbage bags are perfect), pour in the food straight from the freezer, use twist ties or rubber bands to close bag.
I wouldn't use kitchen garbage bags! Many brands of garbage bags are impregnated with pesticides. Also, I've heard a number of people who stored food in garbage bags complain that everything had a "plastic" taste after being stored for a while. Mylar bags and oxygen absorbers are the way to go, in my humble opinion. I was going to try the dry ice method, but when I looked at my chuck of dry ice, I could see the moisture from the air had frozen on the surface of it, and I was worried about that moisture getting into my rice and beans when the ice dissipated.

Squirrel Bait | 04-26-2008 09:04 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. I think we had this exact same discussion about 2 months ago? Anyone want to go check the files? Anyway Freezing, diatomateous earth, CO2 and O2 absorbers seem to be the only way to either slow them down, or kill them. That's why I'm a CO2 fan followed with O2 absorbers But, really, whats the problem with a few weavils. They just add a little protein. It's the mold you've got to watch for. It's bad news!! sb

bsdetector | 04-26-2008 09:27 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. A few bugs or starve to death, choose the lesser of two weavils. .

SAUM | 04-26-2008 10:29 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. I knew those critters could ruin meal and and flour but was a little shocked to find that they had infested my Spaghetti noodles.

90%RealMoney | 04-26-2008 11:20 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. This thread reminded me of a funny story. I was home on leave from the Air Force, and was invited to Dinner at a friends house. His Mom is a great cook, and was making spaghetti that night. We were all at the dinner table, dishing up the noodles and sauce, getting our garlic bread, and passing around the parmesan cheese. I'm a pretty observant person most of the time, and I noticed everyone sprinkling the parmesan cheese on their spaghetti. Well, I noticed little white crawlies on everyones plates, so I passed on the Parmesan cheese. No one else ever noticed, and I didn't have the heart to say anything. I didn't want to embarass the entire Family. Anyway, years later I spilled the beans to them, and we all still get a great laugh over the story! Moral: Keep the parmesan in the fridge!

RealJack | 04-26-2008 12:35 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Choose the lesser of two weavils.
Funny! :clap2:

silverblood | 04-26-2008 01:11 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. We had bugs in our flour and grits and pasta when I was growing up. We just ignored them, mostly, unless there was a enormous concentration of them. But yeah, it's gross. I want to try the dry ice method, but I'm also concerned about moisture in the air condensing on the dry ice and leaving water in the grain. It would be particularly bad for flour. Anyone know a way to avoid this?

Maddie | 04-26-2008 02:02 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by 90%RealMoney (Post 1079540) This thread reminded me of a funny story. I was home on leave from the Air Force, and was invited to Dinner at a friends house. His Mom is a great cook, and was making spaghetti that night. We were all at the dinner table, dishing up the noodles and sauce, getting our garlic bread, and passing around the parmesan cheese. I'm a pretty observant person most of the time, and I noticed everyone sprinkling the parmesan cheese on their spaghetti. Well, I noticed little white crawlies on everyones plates, so I passed on the Parmesan cheese. No one else ever noticed, and I didn't have the heart to say anything. I didn't want to embarass the entire Family. Anyway, years later I spilled the beans to them, and we all still get a great laugh over the story! Moral: Keep the parmesan in the fridge!
Lol! Reminds me of when I was a youngster and sat down to the table with my family and visiting relatives for Thanksgiving dinner and noticed that the "pepper" shaker the folks were using on the other end of the table wasn't really a pepper shaker. It was a former salt shaker I kept filled with the dehydrated bloodworms I fed my fish. My mom apparently reclaimed it from my bedroom thinking it was a stray one from the kitchen. I kept asking for the pepper, hoping I could slip the fish food off the table, but everyone kept pointing out that there was pepper on my end of the table I could use. I told my mom the truth about five years later. She was not amused.

Goldhedge | 04-26-2008 03:00 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. If you freeze past/rice/wheat etc. does it kill the eggs/critters? I'm thinking of 'freezing' as a process. Freeze it, then bag and put in buckets. I had those black beetles and their larvae once. They even got into ginger nuts I had as a spice! I ended up isolating everything in the pantry using plastic bags. Eventually, they hatched and infested whatever was in the bags. I was able to eliminate the infested bags and the problem once and for all. They also ate through cardboard - such as Quaker Oat boxes. Plastic bags proved to be their downfall....

Murphy's Law | 04-26-2008 03:05 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Gee, I would have thought by now someone would say something about you getting extra protein for your money ........................ Wait, someone did!

mightyspuds | 04-26-2008 06:22 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 1079345) I wouldn't use kitchen garbage bags! Many brands of garbage bags are impregnated with pesticides. Also, I've heard a number of people who stored food in garbage bags complain that everything had a "plastic" taste after being stored for a while.
Can you provide links for these pesticide impregnated bags? I cant. But I have read a couple first person accts. (couldnt find them today) where they have checked with manufacturers and not a one had pesticides in the bags.Glad Bag flat out denies it on page one of google searches. I think its a myth. As for non food grade plastic,or plastic leaching chemicals,you can find LOTS of evidence for that.For that reason I wouldnt store in garbage bags,but thats a personal choice. Im going food grade mylar for now .

Master_Ho | 04-26-2008 10:03 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldhedge (Post 1079732) If you freeze past/rice/wheat etc. does it kill the eggs/critters? I'm thinking of 'freezing' as a process. Freeze it, then bag and put in buckets.
Yes it does - when we bring rice (and a few other items, like birdseeds) into the house - we freeze them for two days - that kills off the eggs and critters before the hatch.

TechGuy | 04-26-2008 10:24 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 1080073) Yes it does - when we bring rice (and a few other items, like birdseeds) into the house - we freeze them for two days - that kills off the eggs and critters before the hatch.
I found this article that says rice weevils are not sensitive to freezing temperatures: http://www.bugspray.com/article/riceweevil.html "Since this pest is temperature tolerant, don't waste your time trying to freeze adults, eggs or larva. Though you will certainly kill some of them, too many will assuredly live prepared to continue their cycle." While this one says they are: http://www.pestproducts.com/weevils.htm Control requires locating and eliminating the infested whole grain. Small quantities of grain can be "saved" by controlling the weevils with heat or cold. Heating grain to 140 degrees F for 15 minutes or freezing at O degrees F for 3 days will kill all stages of weevils in the grain. Larger quantities may require disposal or professional fumigation. I dont think freezing would hurt!

Master_Ho | 04-26-2008 10:45 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1080084) I found this article that says rice weevils are not sensitive to freezing temperatures: http://www.bugspray.com/article/riceweevil.html "Since this pest is temperature tolerant, don't waste your time trying to freeze adults, eggs or larva. Though you will certainly kill some of them, too many will assuredly live prepared to continue their cycle." While this one says they are: http://www.pestproducts.com/weevils.htm Control requires locating and eliminating the infested whole grain. Small quantities of grain can be "saved" by controlling the weevils with heat or cold. Heating grain to 140 degrees F for 15 minutes or freezing at O degrees F for 3 days will kill all stages of weevils in the grain. Larger quantities may require disposal or professional fumigation. I dont think freezing would hurt!
<!--StartFragment -->OK - I am going to make this short and sweet........... The had this problem with rice, birdseed and other things...........our birdseed people suggested the freezing..............we've used it for 8 years now and we've never had a problem with the grains since! Now - maybe our critters are wimpier than theirs...........but we go thru a lot of rice here because I cook 75% of our meals Chinese..........

TechGuy | 04-26-2008 10:51 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 1080097) <!--StartFragment -->OK - I am going to make this short and sweet........... The had this problem with rice, birdseed and other things...........our birdseed people suggested the freezing..............we've used it for 8 years now and we've never had a problem with the grains since! Now - maybe our critters are wimpier than theirs...........but we go thru a lot of rice here because I cook 75% of our meals Chinese..........
I certainly wasn't posting that to challenge you, I think freezing helps as well. Those were literally the first two things I pulled up when I googled weevils. I was actually trying to find info on weevils and vacuums.

Master_Ho | 04-26-2008 11:08 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1080099) I certainly wasn't posting that to challenge you, I think freezing helps as well. Those were literally the first two things I pulled up when I googled weevils. I was actually trying to find info on weevils and vacuums.
I didn't take it that way..........tho I am old, and its record heat and I am cranky and pissed off at my Foodsaver unit :wink: ........I was more thinking it sucks when you get articles written by experts that contradict on stuff that should be pretty simple....... And telling you what my 8 years trying this have produced.......... Cheers!

TechGuy | 04-26-2008 11:32 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 1080106) I didn't take it that way..........tho I am old, and its record heat and I am cranky and pissed off at my Foodsaver unit :wink: ........I was more thinking it sucks when you get articles written by experts that contradict on stuff that should be pretty simple....... And telling you what my 8 years trying this have produced.......... Cheers!
That is what I was thinking when I found it, you can always find two sides to every thing on the internet. Should have said that in the post. I wonder if there is an anti-GIM site?

Master_Ho | 04-27-2008 04:04 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1080137) That is what I was thinking when I found it, you can always find two sides to every thing on the internet. Should have said that in the post. I wonder if there is an anti-GIM site?
Well, I am not sure - but from what I've read I THINK there is - and its called Kitco something.........

Firenhole | 04-27-2008 04:35 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 1080097) <!--StartFragment -->OK - I am going to make this short and sweet........... The had this problem with rice, birdseed and other things...........our birdseed people suggested the freezing..............we've used it for 8 years now and we've never had a problem with the grains since! Now - maybe our critters are wimpier than theirs...........but we go thru a lot of rice here because I cook 75% of our meals Chinese..........
I had posted on a similar thread that my vet explained that most upright freezers do not get cold enough to kill the grain beetle eggs but that most chest type freezers do get cold enough. I didn't have success with my bird seed until I used my Father's chest freezer...no more bugggy:D Firenhole

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- - Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=260088)

lessoil=+pm | 04-27-2008 04:37 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. I want to try the dry ice method, but I'm also concerned about moisture in the air condensing on the dry ice and leaving water in the grain. It would be particularly bad for flour. Anyone know a way to avoid this?[/QUOTE] work in a low humidity environment. look for moisture on the dry ice & if any scrape it off or use broke off pieces from inside the chunk of dry ice.it only takes <1/2 cup of chips per 5 gal. i'm going to open a couple of 2 yr. old preped buckets to check- later this year. i'll post if a problem. @ shirley IMO u don't need bags in the bakery food grade buckets.

shades2 | 04-27-2008 08:14 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by lessoil=+pm (Post 1080257) I want to try the dry ice method, but I'm also concerned about moisture in the air condensing on the dry ice and leaving water in the grain. It would be particularly bad for flour. Anyone know a way to avoid this?
work in a low humidity environment. look for moisture on the dry ice & if any scrape it off or use broke off pieces from inside the chunk of dry ice.it only takes <1/2 cup of chips per 5 gal. i'm going to open a couple of 2 yr. old preped buckets to check- later this year. i'll post if a problem. @ shirley IMO u don't need bags in the bakery food grade buckets.[/quote] Put an open jar of dessicant with some wire in there when you add the dry ice, seal the container, carefully remove it after a few hours, without disturbing the CO2 atmosphere and it should have dried up the interior nicely. To store preps properly takes time, but if you do it right you can be sure they will still be edible in 5 years time without degradation.

blueice | 04-27-2008 11:31 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by bsdetector (Post 1079434) A few bugs or starve to death, choose the lesser of two weavils.
:haha::haha::haha:

Squirrel Bait | 04-29-2008 11:26 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by lessoil=+pm (Post 1080257) I want to try the dry ice method, but I'm also concerned about moisture in the air condensing on the dry ice and leaving water in the grain. It would be particularly bad for flour. Anyone know a way to avoid this?
work in a low humidity environment. look for moisture on the dry ice & if any scrape it off or use broke off pieces from inside the chunk of dry ice.it only takes <1/2 cup of chips per 5 gal. i'm going to open a couple of 2 yr. old preped buckets to check- later this year. i'll post if a problem. @ shirley IMO u don't need bags in the bakery food grade buckets.[/QUOTE] Shirley I think the problem of moisture contaminating the product is being overblown. Perhaps if you are in a very humid area it could be a problem. Most grains are in the 10-12 % range. If you use a 1/3 cup of dry ice per 6 gal bucket the amount of moisture you are adding would be very small. Even if you added a full 1/3 cup of water the percentage increase is very small Someone can do the math if they want, but this is a very small percentage of increase. 6 gal =24 quarts=48 pints=96 cups=288 1/3 cups so if you add 1/3 cup of just water(obviously don't do this) you are only increasing water content by 1/288 which is .0035 or .35% If your grain was initially 10% moisture it would now be 10.35% There is no way a 1/3 cup of dry ice will have that much frost/moisture on it so the percentage increase is extremely low. sb __________________

lessoil=+pm | 04-30-2008 12:25 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. thanks squirrel bait; makes sense re the dry ice! re moisture content of beans ;smashing a few with a hammer to make sure they crack some when hit [not just flatten/smush] verifies the beans were adequately dry to begin with.

budfox | 04-30-2008 12:29 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. There is no shortage of rice, stop sweatin it. If you own the precious if and when the real big turds hit the fan, you'll be able to buy what ever you want.

budfox | 04-30-2008 12:47 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumwaldee (Post 1083946) As someone else said on this board at some point and time: Goldbug: You see this coin right here? It's worth $900. Farmer: You see this chicken right here? It's worth $900. Can't hurt to have some food supplies set back...it's not like it costs that much...yet.
Fine with me, it will all be relative then as long as it's a nice big plump chicken.:beer:

Squirrel Bait | 04-30-2008 09:00 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. Quote:
Originally Posted by lessoil=+pm (Post 1083933) thanks squirrel bait; makes sense re the dry ice! re moisture content of beans ;smashing a few with a hammer to make sure they crack some when hit [not just flatten/smush] verifies the beans were adequately dry to begin with.
I don't know where you are but you can generally go to any grain elevator and they can check the moisture content of grains. Personally I wouldn't go to the trouble, but if something I was packing was questionable it is an option. sb

RealityCheck | 04-30-2008 09:19 AM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. If you guys are worried about condensation from dry ice, just rent a CO2 tank. Thats what I did. You have to put a deposit on the tank which you get back (about $80), but after that its cheap to fill it ($15). The main advantage that its storable so you can use it when ever you want since it wont evaporate, which means you can work at your own pace and less trips to the dry ice store. You can even repurge buckets after you open them which is a big plus. (Just be careful when using the tank without a regulator. Just turn the knob the slightest amount or the gas comes gushing out way too fast.)

phideaux | 04-30-2008 07:09 PM
Re: Problem with storing rice--critters in the rice. To those of you who freeze your rice before vacuum sealing, does it matter if you vacuum it while it is still frozen, or let it thaw back to room temp first? Thanks.

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