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- - Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=231062)

RealityCheck | 02-01-2008 03:16 PM
Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? I thought they coudn't, but then I found this at waltonfeed that has me a little confused: "Presently, the food storage companies make use of oxygen absorbers to promote long term storage of foods. Effective bug control using oxygen absorbers requires all the air be removed. And then the authorities are careful to state that removing all the oxygen doesn't necessarily kill bugs, but rather prevents them from thriving should they hatch. Even 0.5% oxygen is enough for many bugs to breath and thrive. So in this way, yes, oxygen absorbers are an effective method of insect control as well - as long as you get rid of all the air." So the question is do they "get all the air out"? According to their site they just push it out by hand. They also say they only use 2 oxygen absorbers which is about 30% less then what would be needed based on their rating of 500 cc's (since the absorbers have a fudge factor and are actually rated conservatively they can use less then what should be required). If bugs can thrive at 0.5% oxygen I am not exactly feeling so confident I can depend on these buckets long term since I see other sites recommending using 4 oxygen absorbers per bucket. Should I be worried about this? The last thing I wan't is to open these things when I need it and it be infested with bugs. I don't have a freezer big enough to fit these pails so freezing isn't an option. Would I be better off filling my own buckets and purging them with CO2 to kill any critters, then using 4 oxygen absorbers, or are the Walton Feed buckets enough that I shouldn't worry?

Tn...Andy | 02-01-2008 03:40 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? WHY are you questioning a source of free protein ? :D

RealityCheck | 02-01-2008 06:59 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 947946) WHY are you questioning a source of free protein ? :D
OK now to a more serious note. :smile: There is no free protien in a bug infestation, they are just recycling the protien I already paid for. I have an ant farm for free protein. (Actually its just an ant hill in the backyard, but I figure if I get hungry enough one day it will seem like a farm.) Seriously though, how common are these bug infestations in stored wheat? Is it worth fumigating it with dry ice to kill any bugs or is this just unnecessary? (It would be stored at room temp)

Squirrel Bait | 02-01-2008 07:02 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? Hey, Reality, why don't you give them a quick call and ask 'em. I've always found them to be very honest and forthright people. I have a feeling 2 absorbers are enough. However, if I were really going to set up a bucket of rice, wheat, lentils, etc etc for 25 years I would purge with CO2 and then use the O2 absorbers just like you said. Then I would keep the buckets dry and cool. What Andy said isn't really unrealistic. A few weavels won't hurt you at all. A little mold is actually much worse. Adds a bad taste too. I know that might sound bad, or even sarcastic, but it's really not meant that way. We, especially in the good ol' USA have gotten so spoiled. Everything is so fricken ultra clean. Real life isn't that way. Our bodies can handle a lot of, well stuff. You can't be stupid, certain things will kill you real quick. E. colie, salmonella, tricanosis etc. All bad. Easy to prevent. People out there, if I'm totally wrong, PLEASE, tell me! SB

shades2 | 02-03-2008 12:45 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Bait (Post 948274) Hey, Reality, why don't you give them a quick call and ask 'em. I've always found them to be very honest and forthright people. I have a feeling 2 absorbers are enough. However, if I were really going to set up a bucket of rice, wheat, lentils, etc etc for 25 years I would purge with CO2 and then use the O2 absorbers just like you said. Then I would keep the buckets dry and cool. What Andy said isn't really unrealistic. A few weavels won't hurt you at all. A little mold is actually much worse. Adds a bad taste too. I know that might sound bad, or even sarcastic, but it's really not meant that way. We, especially in the good ol' USA have gotten so spoiled. Everything is so fricken ultra clean. Real life isn't that way. Our bodies can handle a lot of, well stuff. You can't be stupid, certain things will kill you real quick. E. colie, salmonella, tricanosis etc. All bad. Easy to prevent. People out there, if I'm totally wrong, PLEASE, tell me! SB
Sounds pretty well right. One thing our bodies also do not handle at all well is ingesting toxins. The body cannot build up an immunity to toxins as they are basically a poison that can lead to organ damage, organ failure, blood poisoning and death. This is one low-level danger of a pest infestation, they cruise around eating the carbos etc. and excrete matter, leaving behind potential sources of infection and toxins. This is particularly an issue with any bacteria and moisture that might get in, or if the food is already moist by design. Bacteria are capable of producing masses of toxin very quickly. Luckily we have noses and eyes that can tell us when things are really off and when not to eat them. Note that boiling will not necessarily remove toxins, you could still boil something that's off, eat it, get very sick and die.

<SLV> | 02-03-2008 02:12 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? How about using CO2 (dry ice) to displace atmospheric oxygen before sealing the lid? I think it was the DUCK that recommended this.

Walter Mitty | 02-03-2008 02:18 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? The Walton web site says the Super Pails use mylar bags which are vacuum sealed. I assume this means they put in O2 absorbers,draw out as much oxygen as they can and seal the bags. A rubber gasketed lid is then put on the pails.Their Web Site says the Super pails and #10 cans have the best storage life.

RealityCheck | 02-03-2008 04:13 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? I contacted them and they said that they recomend storing them at 70 degrees or below. She said bugs can hatch if the temp gets too warm. That kind of sealed the deal for me. I'm going to pack all my own pails so I can fumigate them first. Considering some people are planning storing these for decades and thier life might depend on them, it seems kind of odd that companies aren't taking this extra step. Maybe the risk is too small for them to worry about all the hassle? I think what i'll do is fumigate them with dry ice in buckets for a while to kill any critters, then transfer them into mylar bags and throw in some O2 absorbers. Apparently from what i've read the O2 absorbers wont work properly in high CO2 concentrations. SB, i'll pass on the bug bread. :D

<SLV> | 02-03-2008 04:24 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 950794) How about using CO2 (dry ice) to displace atmospheric oxygen before sealing the lid? I think it was the DUCK that recommended this.
Well, duh... looks like this was already on the table. I guess I should slow down and read more carefully! :stupido2:

Squirrel Bait | 02-03-2008 04:30 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityCheck (Post 950949) I contacted them and they said that they recomend storing them at 70 degrees or below. She said bugs can hatch if the temp gets too warm. That kind of sealed the deal for me. I'm going to pack all my own pails so I can fumigate them first. Considering some people are planning storing these for decades and thier life might depend on them, it seems kind of odd that companies aren't taking this extra step. Maybe the risk is too small for them to worry about all the hassle? I think what i'll do is fumigate them with dry ice in buckets for a while to kill any critters, then transfer them into mylar bags and throw in some O2 absorbers. Apparently from what i've read the O2 absorbers wont work properly in high CO2 concentrations. SB, i'll pass on the bug bread. :D
LOL!! Well, I don't plan on bug bread either. It's nice to know about the Oxygen absorbers and high CO2. I hadn't heard that before. SB

TechGuy | 02-03-2008 05:12 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? Oxygen absorbers are VERY reliable and safe. They literally absorb the oxygen and leave a nitrogen atmosphere in your container, this is the best possible storage environment. There are a few guidelines you have to figure, such as amount of air left in containers etc. But you should be able to use them with no worries. BTW> of course oxygen absorbers dont work well in co2. Think about it... They are basically iron oxides and they are litterally RUSTING to absorb the oxygen. If there is little to no oxygen, they wont work. http://waltonfeed.com/self/upack/oxyintro.html

j-son | 02-03-2008 06:06 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? anyone ever buy this ? http://waltonfeed.com/intro/u12.html

RealityCheck | 02-03-2008 06:19 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 951003) If there is little to no oxygen, they wont work.
Yeah but if there is little to no oxygen left they shouldn't have to work much. 98% of the oxygen has been displaced by CO2. You are trying to remove less oxygen per absorber, so you would think the same amount of absorbers per bucket would work better since they are absorbing less oxygen.

TechGuy | 02-03-2008 06:55 PM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? I have over 200 cans of dry food I have canned myself thanks to the Mormon cannery. We weigh and pack the food VERY carefully to remove as much air as possible and to use the freshest oxygen absorbers possible. We normally can with several people who have been doing this for over 20 years, and I always ask about how their food has faired.. some have been using wheat and rice that are over 20 years old with no issues. The Mormons have arguably the largest self canning program in the world. If they say to do it with oxy absorbers only and #10 cans. I am willing to listen. BTW> I go to pack another 150+ cans 1st week of march.

shades2 | 02-04-2008 01:20 AM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? Hmm, these O2 absorbers should be perfect for long term ammo storage. Might have to take the ammo out of boxes and stick it in jars though.

jaima | 02-04-2008 07:51 AM
Re: Can bugs hatch in super pails with O2 absorbers? After doing some reading I am going to use the Diatomaceous earth along with the oxygen absorbers when I pack my pails. I live in the warm and humid south and my storage area will not be quite ideal with temperature and humidity. I found the info on it quite interesting. http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/defaq.html

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