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pinnacle | 08-29-2007 12:39 AM
Question for all you experts with kids! I have a 5 year old who just started Kindergarden. Guess what...the 1st week he comes home with some $20 coupon book he is supposed to sell as a fundraiser for school. I kind of blew it off and did not bother asking what it was for....sure it is for a class trip or something....I will find out. Assume it is for something legit. I have spent years getting hit up by others peoples kids for this kind of stuff...this is our oldest child..and we had kids late in life. I never particularly cared for the executives sending their kids door to door where poor saps barely making ends meet had to fork over $ on overpriced junk for the kids school...but I digress. Anyway...this $20 book has like $200 worth of coupons..or something like that..my math may be off. Mostly from restaurants, etc. Since I hate this stuff...I would like input on a few options. I would like to point out that one of my best friends has already hit up almost all of the people we know! He did a blast email to hundreds of people...his daughter is in the same class as my son....so there went the idea of hitting up friends who have hit me up for years...we know alot of the same people...we worked together for years. 1. Blow it off. That is what I wanted to do. Do not buy one book and hit no one up. take the high road...it is freaking Kindergarden for crying outloud. 2. The problem with #1 is that I would like to teach my son something. In a different neighborhood...time...or era...I would go door to door and talk to my friends...take my son with me...sell them a book and have a cup of tea or coffee. That is what it was like when I was a kid. But...this is not reality. Kids I have never seen in my life show up at our door trying to sell garbage. We stopped answering the door years ago. I tried meeting some neighbors...but since I am the guy with big old obnoxious pickup....and I rent...in a very upscale gated area....people kind of run when they see me. I have a 13 year old truck....my daily driver...it looks like it is new and came off the lot...but because it is big...diesel...people keep reporting it to the HOA as being abandoned. Kind of a hoot when people come over to complain.. I do not park it in the garage....because the truck is too long. Anyway..I digress...I am the neighborhood oddball. Not exactly ozzie and harriett here. I am the only renter out of probably 70 houses on acre + lots...so door to door is not an option.... Any ideas. I could always buy 20 books from him and sell them off on craigslist or ebay for 1/2 price or less...just to save face...but that is not an option for me. This would send the wrong message to my son...just buying them...and I hate padding the pockets of who knows what entity that set up this gig. So there...feel bad for the little tike...sending him back to school empty handed with no sales.........but the obsession society has with winning everything is not good either... My wife and I discussed asking close family and friends...but I know most of them would do it even though they can barely pay their bills..and frankly...alot of them would not get alot of benefit out of the book (alot of the places with coupons would only apply to certain people). So...we have not approached anyone and are taking the high road. I actually was a successful sales person for years....so I have no problem asking for the order...I just feel as though this kind of stuff has gotten a little out of hand...and the buck will stop with us on this one. So...any brilliant ideas out there? If my son was a little older than "just turned 5"...I would probably have other options available! I doubt he will even care or notice that we punted....but I assume in a few years the same issue will keep coming up more as he gots older!

Kahlil Gibran | 08-29-2007 12:52 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Pimping out their five year-old students to make money teaches children what? Who hits up "friends" for this? Quote:
So there...feel bad for the little tike...sending him back to school empty handed with no sales......do not want to teach him how to lose
Refusing to be used and exploited is your definition of loser? :Sorry: no personal insult intended

elroy | 08-29-2007 12:55 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Boy can I sympathize with you! This crap has gotten totally out of hand and if the parents/buyers knew exactly how little of the money goes to the kids they would never buy any of it. My guess is these selling programs are pushed by the marketers of the products not the schools. You buy $100 worth of over priced crap so that the school can make $10 or $15. One of our local schools has a travel agency promoting a trip to Hawaii as a scholastic program. The trip for 10th graders will cost each student $3000+ and this is in one of the poorest counties in the state. All parents should "just say no" to these programs.

pinnacle | 08-29-2007 12:59 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! I posted on wrong thread...should be under general discussion..sorry about that. Kahlil - no offense taken. Loser was a bad word to use..not very accurate pf the situation..so I changed it.... They will just put it up on the board that everyone else sold a hundred and my son sold zero. If he was older...it would not be an issue..but he is 5! I figure it will build some character on some level.....I pointed out in the next sentence the win everything mentality is not good either... He could probably learn something from this....but at 5...I doubt there will be much of a lessen he will understand! I doubt at 5 in his first month of school in his entire life...that he will be able to understand that we took a stance and are not being exploited...that will have to come in a couple of years! I guess that was my point.

Bob | 08-29-2007 01:01 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Well, I hate these things the kids have to sell in general, but I must say there are different levels of hatred. A coupon book that you'll use and save more than you spend is one thing. Freaking $15 wrapping paper is another. $5 or $10 raffle tickets? Ugh. Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy (Post 714605) Boy can I sympathize with you! This crap has gotten totally out of hand and if the parents/buyers knew exactly how little of the money goes to the kids they would never buy any of it. My guess is these selling programs are pushed by the marketers of the products not the schools. You buy $100 worth of over priced crap so that the school can make $10 or $15. One of our local schools has a travel agency promoting a trip to Hawaii as a scholastic program. The trip for 10th graders will cost each student $3000+ and this is in one of the poorest counties in the state. All parents should "just say no" to these programs.

Kahlil Gibran | 08-29-2007 01:04 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy (Post 714605) All parents should "just say no" to these programs.
Here's how to do it: "There are over 500,000 registered sex offenders in America. You expect our little children to go door-to-door? What genius thought up this School Budget solution?" Ask that question publicly. Say it nice and loud. Teach you child to speak Truth to Power early. :smokin: if they embarrass your kid sue them.

Floyd | 08-29-2007 01:12 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! I've got a 5 yr old too, plus 15 &16. I'm not parent of the year by a long shot. I do believe in being honest with them, sometimes to honest according to my wife. The first 6 years in a child's life are the most important. They are little sponges that soak up EVERYTHING. Don't enable them to be used in trade for "winning". Tell the child the truth, the school is not being fair and we (FAMILY) don't do unfair things. Tell them it is against your beliefs or how ever you may feel or KNOW. They start off geniuses and we disable them to stupidity. I recomend a book called "How to Multiply Your Childs Inteligence" I don't recall the authors name. It is a very insightful book.

pinnacle | 08-29-2007 01:12 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! kahlil: I think they basically expect you to hit up everyone you know personally.... I guess they never said door to door. I used to sell fruit for our FFA chapter...and always sold alot of it by going around the neighborhood...but that was clearly a different era..I knew everyone...so I guess that is where I got that idea. It was actually kind of fun..but I was alot older than 5! Bob: good thought. I will pour thru the book and see if it is all B.S. or whether it has any value or is something useful. They sent one home with him..and I got irritated that this is what they taught him on the 1st day - so I never bothered looking much at the coupon book. I bought one from someones kid years ago...and barely used it before the coupons expired...but that was a different book...obviously.

pinnacle | 08-29-2007 01:18 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Floyd: thanks...I will skim it at the bookstore and check it out....

GoldRocks | 08-29-2007 01:23 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Well I don't have kids, so all I can offer is objectivety. I also don't agree with doing this to young kids. IMO the only sales a 5 year old should be doing, is from a koolaid stand in the front yard. ;) You could contact the school and ask what the fundraising is for. If it's a worthy cause you might be able to contribute directly instead. Explaining it to your kid would help too, so he can tell other kids you gave to it directly without selling coupons, so he's not teased about it. Or, combine the two and have him run a koolaid stand some weekend, and contribute that money to the fundraiser instead. .02 Good luck.

Kahlil Gibran | 08-29-2007 01:27 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Quote:
Originally Posted by pinnacle (Post 714622) kahlil: I think they basically expect you to hit up everyone you know personally.... I guess they never said door to door. I used to sell fruit for our FFA chapter...and always sold alot of it by going around the neighborhood...but that was clearly a different era..I knew everyone...so I guess that is where I got that idea. It was actually kind of fun..but I was alot older than 5!
Sure they do. Expect the parents to annoy their family, friends, co-workers, and neighbors with this obvious scam. Who can keep a straight face doing this? Somebody needs to call the School Administration on this farce publicly. Why involve little children via manipulation and peer pressure in what is...in reality...a School Budget issue. Don't "sell" a single one. Don't set the Sheeple example for your impressionable little children. Simply explain this scam to your kid. The problem is the School Budget. Has nothing whatsoever to do with little students. That's the Administration and parent's problem. The School Budget. :dontknow: "If you don't buy this shit my little boy will be shunned and devalued at his school." Who can keep a straight face saying that? Put this back on the School Administration.

Texan | 08-29-2007 01:31 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 714616) Here's how to do it: "There are over 500,000 registered sex offenders in America. You expect our little children to go door-to-door? What genius thought up this School Budget solution?" Ask that question publicly. Say it nice and loud. Teach you child to speak Truth to Power early. :smokin: if they embarrass your kid sue them.
I've been opposed to these schemes ever since I had to slang that trash, "World's Finest Chocolate", for Little League when I was a boy. The local school board steals enough tax monies that they shouldn't need to force kids to peddle crap to friends and strangers. What's just as irritating as this is when they put your kid in these group projects so that they can be reduced to the lowest common denominator. It got to where, at times, that I took zeroes on these scams rather than participate. I got sick of being the smart one subsidizing the losers. The good thing is, there is an answer: homeschooling. Please consider it.

Akula | 08-29-2007 01:41 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Argggg! My oldest graduated HS last year, my youngest starts school in two weeks (kindergarten) . I hope this is not what I have to look forward to in the first week. Lot of good advice given here though. Who benefits the most here? The asses pushing these crap fund raisers. The only reason is because they bullied there way in. A fund raiser (from little league to GS cookies) are rip-offs for the purchaser. But these types, the coupon books and the like, are the worse. The skinny is using child labor to fund a company with a small kick back to the school. Screw them and tell them that right after you have a sit down with the youngster. :D

BeeYourself | 08-29-2007 01:46 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Two words... Home Schooling.

Silverstone | 08-29-2007 02:44 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! It's a hard one, on one hand I agree with KG, don't let them pressure your young child into this; on the other hand, you don't want him to be the nail that gets hammered down at school! I would just explain to him that you know a few people that would be willing to buy one, but that you don't believe it's fair to sell it to people that don't really have the money to pay for it. Let him sell a few, he'll be happy, you buy a few, and call it foo bar, and don't make a big deal out of it to the child and he probably won't make a big deal out of it himself. I'd let this one go by without too much fanfare or back patting and save the valuable lesson for something else more important and meaningful, they'll be lots of opportunities, he's only 5. He'll pick up from your actions that you aren't too keen on it anyway, so might as well be honest to him, 5 year olds understand more than adults sometimes give them credit for.

demosfen | 08-29-2007 03:24 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! My 5-year old was supposed to sell candies last year. The school administration was very caring and advised NOT to go door-to-door at such young age, yet. I told the kid that schools are a for-profit business run by bad men and women who want her to generate a few extra bucks for them. She didn't sell anything and I didn't feel like a loser either, although I am sure that's what the school wanted I say if you send your child to sell something, at least pocket the profits. You already pay for PTA with your property tax, why should YOUR child work for them? And how is it that child labor is only illegal when it's not the establishment that profits from it?

R MacDonald | 08-29-2007 04:07 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 714616) Here's how to do it: "There are over 500,000 registered sex offenders in America. You expect our little children to go door-to-door? What genius thought up this School Budget solution?" Ask that question publicly. Say it nice and loud. Teach you child to speak Truth to Power early. :smokin: if they embarrass your kid sue them.
Best idea yet!!! Even better..... HOMESCHOOL!!! :applause_

dlm1968 | 08-29-2007 06:18 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Another vote for home schooling. We have a 7 and 3-year-old and they will never set foot in these schools. That aside I would not have my child sell a thing and explain to them why as suggested above.

eyeofliberty | 08-29-2007 08:43 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! First and foremost: GET YOUR CHILD OUT OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS! Selling stupid crap is just one thing in a long line of crap that you will have to deal with. Vote #3 for homeschooling. Our 11 year old was pulled out last year, our 3 year old will never attend public schools.

Atahualpa | 08-29-2007 09:18 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Buy one frigging book for 20 bucks and use the coupons yourself...if any of them are any good. Send you kid to school with the sale and be done with it. I've gone through all of this including Girl Scout cookies, my approach is to minimize the importance of selling this stuff and to do a token participation just so the kid doesn't feel like an outcast. If your child is self motivated about a project and wants to really hustle...I wouldn't stop them...just don't let them feel pressured to be a free sales force.

footloose | 08-29-2007 09:36 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeYourself (Post 714654) Two words... Home Schooling.
Bingo!! Whatever it takes to get the kids out of the brain drain.

pinnacle | 08-29-2007 09:48 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! For better or worse....it is a small private school. The homeschool vs. public vs. private is probably a debate for another thread....just wanted to point out it was a private school...not that it matters much (private vs. public). We just wanted to try this school for 1 year...we will reevaluate after the first year and see what direction we head.

Baphomet Jones | 08-29-2007 04:57 PM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Give the coupon book back, and tell them not to involve your kid in any more of their bullshit marketing scams, and if anyone has a problem with that, ask them if they want to step outside :bull-buddy-icon: Teach your kid that its OK to disagree, its OK to refuse to take what people "give" you, and its MORE than OK to be your own man! To hell with fitting in! Give him a real job, granted that he's only 5, give him something thats "work", then pay him for it. Then if he wants, he can have the option to give that money toward whatever the school wanted to spend that book money on, but let him spend it on whatever he wants. That would probably be a better lesson. Its a shame you gotta teach him the value of a dollar so young :rolleyes_m: Quote:
Originally Posted by pinnacle (Post 714969) For better or worse....it is a small private school. The homeschool vs. public vs. private is probably a debate for another thread....just wanted to point out it was a private school...not that it matters much (private vs. public). We just wanted to try this school for 1 year...we will reevaluate after the first year and see what direction we head.
That doesn't sound like a good idea, fluoridated water fountains, hypocritical "do as I say, not as I do" teachers, and a bunch of children passing on their parent's bad habits to each other like a virus, one year might do irreversible damage. All that BS about how children who are home schooled will have social disorders is just that, BS, designed to help maintain the state funded public fool system, but like you said, it deserves another thread for discussion. Any exposure, no matter how brief, will impact your child. I think HiveMinded is a teacher, you should ask him what he thinks about your situation. While I don't have kids, I do have some experience, teaching kindergarten believe it or not. I loved it, the kids are great, and I learned more than I could possibly explain.. I'm still figuring it all out :D I was lucky enough to do my Practicum with a woman who had been teaching elementary school for 30 years, that particular year being her last... she didn't hesitate to let me know everything thats going on with the profession, the trends she's observed, the political bullshit involved, I'm eternally grateful to her, for her honesty, I added it all up (no child left behind, standardized testing for 5 year olds, etc.), left college and never looked back. I make more money now working a little harder, but with a clear conscience, and thats priceless. I'm sure things are a little different in each town, but I doubt theres much of a difference between public and private schools. Its all for the same purpose; suppress cognitive development, suppress individual expression, teach them just enough to fill out their form W2's, and keep them dumb enough to never realize what a load of horseshit it all is. Pay $50,000+ for college, pay your taxes, take out loans, live well beyond your means, all those great american values! Now please don't take that the wrong way, I wasn't trying to imply anything about you or the way you raise your kid, but this is just my understanding of things from what I've seen. If I had a kid, I would never trust his/her education to ANYONE but myself. And maybe his/her mother :wink: And the condoms will remain mandetory until I have a nice place on a couple secluded acres somewhere in the middle of nowhere, kinda like TN_Andy's setup :D Then I'll have extra hands to help with planting and harvest :tongue_ma:

Anty Ep | 08-29-2007 05:20 PM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! I remember selling popcorn for boy scouts and at school too. Today they got a promo scheme every couple months. Its easy to ignore if you dont want to participate.

Got Goldies | 08-29-2007 05:53 PM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Best move here is to purchase item for 5 year old and kid is instant hero. We had to sell worlds best chocolate and mom buy for us.

Kahlil Gibran | 08-29-2007 06:01 PM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Goldies (Post 715796) Best move here is to purchase item for 5 year old and kid is instant hero. We had to sell worlds best chocolate and mom buy for us.
I always wondered how all those Amway people got that way...

DogFarm | 08-29-2007 07:17 PM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! I think it's great for kids to learn sales--when they are legally allowed to work or from watching their dad wheel and steal (I reference the excellent horse trading/barter skill thread). Personally, I started in sales at age 16 and love sales. HOWEVER, sending out elementary kids to huck product is kind of sick IMHO. It's also very dangerous sending kids around door to door and my kid. Some kids become traumatized by the thought of selling. All in all, the candle is just not worth the light. I would be very pissed off if some school exposed my child (when I have one) to this and I would let them know. (IMHO) As a side note, I went on a date with a woman in LA. She was beautiful. Had a brand new Porsche. Great house, great personality. Fun as hell. Smoking hot. At some time during the evening we started talking about what we do--which is great sign as most women in LA ask upfront. I was damn near half in love with her by then. Come to find out, she is the Marketing Director for one of these companies that sells these "fund raising systems" to schools around the country. We started talking about it; I said one too many things or asked too many difficult questions, and before I knew the date had turned into a debate. All down hill from there. Never heard from her again :no_ma:

ChemE | 08-30-2007 09:45 AM
Re: Question for all you experts with kids! I don't know if its the same "coupon book", but my kids school sells a coupon book that at least lets us break even. In the book are 4 Shop-n-Save grocery store coupons. Pay $20 and get a $25 dollar gift certificate. In our town Shop-n-Save is the least expensive of the 3 large grocery stores. That at least pay's for the stupid book. With our kids we sat down a looked it over together and told them if it didn't have those coupons we wouldn't really use the book. we try to go out to dinner every couple months and my daugther said we should use one of the dinner coupons so intead of breaking even on the book it would be slightly to our favor. As far as the wraping paper, choclate junk its no, no and NO.

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