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Heimdhal | 07-30-2009 03:36 PM
Things I've learned of Mylar Mylar: Or, How I learned to get rid of pickle smell and love the bucket. Today, I had my first mylar packing session. It was a small job. 25'lbs of rice on my first go. Hopefully will get some more to pack away this weekend. It taught me many things, among these: 1) Size does matter. Mylar comes in varying sizes. I thought, "Well, I have a 5 gallon bucket, I'll buy the one that says 4/5/6 Gallon'" After waiting, diligently, patiently, eagerly for a week, my package of 5 mylar bags came in. "bright and shiny" I thought. Soon after it was: "Rather long, too" Apparently a 6 gallon mylar bag is about twice as long as a 5 gallon bucket. Also, as I should have known, mylar bags are square, 5 gallon buckets are not. 2) A return to 3rd grade It should be of no suprise that volume and weight or not equal, unless one is dealing with pure water. It did, however, come as a suprise that 20lbs of rice does NOT equal anywhere close to 5 gallons of volume. I started with a 25lb bag, but took 5 out for more immediate uses. It also came as a bit of a suprise that not quite 5 gallons of rice REALLY doesnt equal a full mylar bag. In fact, I had over half a bag empty and about a foot and a half sticking out the top of the bucket. 3) Oxygen absorbers are great....if you have the right size. All I had on hand were 100cc packs. So eager, I was, to fill the mylar bag full of rice that I forgot to put some in the bottom. This I realized half way through the filling. After scooping out a good portion of that which I had just put in, I placed 5 absorbers at the bottom of the bag. Filled half way, put in another, filled all the way, put in another 5. I pray it is enough, Ill find out later tonight. 4) Irons, Mylar and Towels It was when it came time to seal it all up that I came to another realization "Shit." I said. I forgot to get the Iron. I rush upstairs, search franticaly, but quietly because little miss 2 year old just went down for a nap. I find it and descend in haste. Shit!" I exclaim once more. It became apparent then, and only then, there is nor real easy way to iron a piece of mylar after you've got it cut in half, its full of rice and in a bucket. In the abscense of a flat surface, I improvise. In the spirit of the cavemen that preceeded me, I grab a towel and begin to ponder the use of fire, or in this case, hot metal. 5) Thermal Conductivity. Towels are not all created equal; neither are irons. I had left the iron unattended for not more than a minute or so, but on its highest heat setting without steam. Steam, I figured, would be counter productive in this application. As I pondered on the process to ensue, I decided the best method would be to hold the iron on one side of the mylar(no duh!) and the towel on the other, lacking an obtainable flat surface. "Shit!" I exclaim, thrice now, as my past culinary experiences come rushing back to me. Towels are good for grabbing hot stuff, not so good if they arent THICK enough. I tend to myself quickly and grasping the iron in one hand, the towel in the opposite, I double the towel up and go about my business sealing the ends together. 6) Seals, and not the cute kind There was nothing cute about this seal. Well, it was a fine seal, up till the end, where I realized my cutting skills left much to be desired. I did the best I could, sealing all but a portion. I have watched many a video and read many an article on this exact thing. "Leave a bit at the end," They all say, "So you can press the remaining air out before sealing. I pressed, and I pressed, and I pressed, but each time I pressed, I had to lift the edge of the mylar back up, letting the air back in. So quickly, I press the mylar down, force the air, up pull it up and apply the heat. "SHIT!" is becoming my new favorite word today. I pull my hand back, looking at the forgotten towel on the ground. Mylar, it seems, has much better thermal conductivity than towels and skin. The bag is sealed, I consider my victory complete, if not but a bit Phyrric. I press it down to make room for the lid. This is where I see the bubble of air still in the back. A new expression of profanity comes to mind; a human activity, but nothing to do with waste. I put the lid on the bucket and seal it down. Still with the spirit of the cave men, I go on the hunt...for a permenant marker. 20 minutes later, my old favorite word comes back into my mind. "Where did that kid take it this time."

Golddust | 07-30-2009 03:44 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1843755) Mylar: Or, How I learned to get rid of pickle smell and love the bucket. Today, I had my first mylar packing session. It was a small job. 25'lbs of rice on my first go. Hopefully will get some more to pack away this weekend. It taught me many things, among these: 1) Size does matter. Mylar comes in varying sizes. I thought, "Well, I have a 5 gallon bucket, I'll buy the one that says 4/5/6 Gallon'" After waiting, diligently, patiently, eagerly for a week, my package of 5 mylar bags came in. "bright and shiny" I thought. Soon after it was: "Rather long, too" Apparently a 6 gallon mylar bag is about twice as long as a 5 gallon bucket. Also, as I should have known, mylar bags are square, 5 gallon buckets are not. 2) A return to 3rd grade It should be of no suprise that volume and weight or not equal, unless one is dealing with pure water. It did, however, come as a suprise that 20lbs of rice does NOT equal anywhere close to 5 gallons of volume. I started with a 25lb bag, but took 5 out for more immediate uses. It also came as a bit of a suprise that not quite 5 gallons of rice REALLY doesnt equal a full mylar bag. In fact, I had over half a bag empty and about a foot and a half sticking out the top of the bucket. 3) Oxygen absorbers are great....if you have the right size. All I had on hand were 100cc packs. So eager, I was, to fill the mylar bag full of rice that I forgot to put some in the bottom. This I realized half way through the filling. After scooping out a good portion of that which I had just put in, I placed 5 absorbers at the bottom of the bag. Filled half way, put in another, filled all the way, put in another 5. I pray it is enough, Ill find out later tonight. 4) Irons, Mylar and Towels It was when it came time to seal it all up that I came to another realization "Shit." I said. I forgot to get the Iron. I rush upstairs, search franticaly, but quietly because little miss 2 year old just went down for a nap. I find it and descend in haste. Shit!" I exclaim once more. It became apparent then, and only then, there is nor real easy way to iron a piece of mylar after you've got it cut in half, its full of rice and in a bucket. In the abscense of a flat surface, I improvise. In the spirit of the cavemen that preceeded me, I grab a towel and begin to ponder the use of fire, or in this case, hot metal. 5) Thermal Conductivity. Towels are not all created equal; neither are irons. I had left the iron unattended for not more than a minute or so, but on its highest heat setting without steam. Steam, I figured, would be counter productive in this application. As I pontificated on the process to ensue, I decided the best method would be to hold the iron on one side of the mylar(no duh!) and the towel on the other, lacking an obtainable flat surface. "Shit!" I exclaim, thrice now, as my past culinary experiences come rushing back to me. Towels are good for grabbing hot stuff, not so good if they arent THICK enough. I tend to myself quickly and grasping the iron in one hand, the towel in the opposite, I double the towel up and went about my business sealing the ends together. 6) Seals, and not the cute kind There was nothing cut about this seal. Well, it was a fine seal, up till the end, where I realized my cutting skills left much to be desired. I did the best I could, sealing all but a portion. I have watched many a video and read many an article on this exact thing. "Leave a bit at the end," They all say, "So you can press the remaining air out before sealing. I pressed, and I pressed, and I pressed, but each time I pressed, I had to life the edge of the mylar back up, letting the air back in. So quickly, I press the mylar down, force the air, up pull it up and apply the heat. "SHIT!" is becoming my new favorite word today. I pull my hand back, looking at the forgotten towel on the ground. Mylar, it seems, has much better thermal conductivity than towels and skin. The bag is sealed, I consider my victory complete, if not but a bit Phyrric. I press it down to make room for the lid. This is where I see the bubble of air still in the back. A new expression of profanity comes to mind; a human activity, but nothing to do with waste. I put the lid on the bucket and seal it down. Still with the spirit of the cave men, I go on the hunt...for a permenant marker. 20 minutes later, my old favorite word comes back into my mind. "Where did that kid take it this time."
ROTFLMFAO :36_1_25: :111::111::111::111:

TechGuy | 07-30-2009 03:48 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar Same experience here. I have some bags you can have..... no thanks. #10 cans or jars for me thanks.

Heimdhal | 07-30-2009 03:52 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1843781) Same experience here. I have some bags you can have..... no thanks. #10 cans or jars for me thanks.
I think you may have the right idea. I've got 4 more bags left, so I figured I'd use them up. I have tried your jar method from your sticky and like it. I just thought this would take up less room, weight and money. Ill let you know about them bags though :)

Dave | 07-30-2009 03:57 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar Let me offer a little advice on sealing... As you mentioned above, the bags are quite a bit longer than the actual bucket. I have used this to my advantage. This is what I simply do. Literally fold the mylar bag over the rim of the bucket. Place a towel or cloth over the mylar bag and use the bucket rim as your hard surface for the seem. Simply trim the excess mylar and fold in to the bucket. This has worked for me :) Dave

Heimdhal | 07-30-2009 04:09 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 1843803) Let me offer a little advice on sealing... As you mentioned above, the bags are quite a bit longer than the actual bucket. I have used this to my advantage. This is what I simply do. Literally fold the mylar bag over the rim of the bucket. Place a towel or cloth over the mylar bag and use the bucket rim as your hard surface for the seem. Simply trim the excess mylar and fold in to the bucket. This has worked for me :) Dave
That, my friend, is a great idea. I think next time too, Ill flush with dry ice, or use the vaccum attachment on my foodsaver to suck as much of the air out as I can.

Lars Ragnarsson | 07-30-2009 04:21 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar They're big for a reason - so you can get them sealed. I got my sealing method from a link someone posted a couple of years ago. I get a piece of smooth wood, 1 x 3" or 1 x 4", about 18" long. I place it across the top of the bucket, parallel to the opening. I close the top of the bag and try to get it as smooth as possible, and then I iron away. Some sites recommend getting excess air out by clipping a small corner off the top, and inserting a small vacuum hose. I use a hand-held vac with a coffee stirrer taped into the vac's opening, with the rest of the opening sealed off. Once I've got the excess air out, I slide out the straw while keeping the opening sealed with my finger, and then zap it with the iron. With the oxygen absorbers, that last part may not even be necessary. If you get a good seal on the mylar, that little bit of oxygen shouldn't do too much damage to your grain. That said, I hate using the mylar. You really need about 4 hands to get it done....

Dave | 07-30-2009 04:21 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1843829) That, my friend, is a great idea. I think next time too, Ill flush with dry ice, or use the vaccum attachment on my foodsaver to suck as much of the air out as I can.
If you have access to dry ice, use it instead of creating a vacuum.. Here is how to use the dry ice. You will need to use about a quarter size chunk (there is a formula to determine how much gas volume you get from X amount of dry ice, I figured this to be about the size of a bouncy ball). Simply place on top of your food/grain and let it mostly evaporate. This will slowly displace the O2 in the bucket as the CO2 sinks to the bottom. Naturally you don't want to do this where there is wind or a breeze. When there is just a small amount left, seal the mylar as I described above. This will create a slight positive pressure seal. With the bag under positive pressure instead of a vacuum you are less likely to have any O2 leak in to the bag. You can also use nitrogen in place of CO2. Also, toss your grain with a little food grade diatomaceous earth. This will keep the critters out if by chance you end up with an O2 environment inside the mylar from a compromise in the bag and saturated O2 absorbers.. Dave

Heimdhal | 07-30-2009 04:36 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 1843851) If you have access to dry ice, use it instead of creating a vacuum.. Here is how to use the dry ice. You will need to use about a quarter size chunk (there is a formula to determine how much gas volume you get from X amount of dry ice, I figured this to be about the size of a bouncy ball). Simply place on top of your food/grain and let it mostly evaporate. This will slowly displace the O2 in the bucket as the CO2 sinks to the bottom. Naturally you don't want to do this where there is wind or a breeze. When there is just a small amount left, seal the mylar as I described above. This will create a slight positive pressure seal. With the bag under positive pressure instead of a vacuum you are less likely to have any O2 leak in to the bag. You can also use nitrogen in place of CO2. Also, toss your grain with a little food grade diatomaceous earth. This will keep the critters out if by chance you end up with an O2 environment inside the mylar from a compromise in the bag and saturated O2 absorbers.. Dave
Thats exactly what I was thinking with the dry ice, but was unsure on the AMOUNT. Its a good thing you made metnion or I'd have thrown half a pound in there :36_1_25: The positive air pressure makes great sense as well. Im iffy about the DE. Its not harmful in ingest?

Dave | 07-30-2009 04:40 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 1843883) Im iffy about the DE. Its not harmful in ingest?
That's why you get food grade. Actually some people use this to keep themselves regular ;) Dave

RealityCheck | 07-30-2009 08:21 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar Putting O2 absorbers underneath the grain is very counterproductive. That should be the very last thing you do right before you seal them up. Your losing a lot of absorbing capacity in the time it takes to fill the buckets and adding no benefit in terms of oxygen absorption. Just throw them on top at the end, it will make your life a lot easier since you dont have to rush around as much.

Dave | 07-30-2009 08:34 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar Quote:
Originally Posted by RealityCheck (Post 1844315) Putting O2 absorbers underneath the grain is very counterproductive. That should be the very last thing you do right before you seal them up. Your losing a lot of absorbing capacity in the time it takes to fill the buckets and adding no benefit in terms of oxygen absorption. Just throw them on top at the end, it will make your life a lot easier since you dont have to rush around as much.
Great point, and is something I forgot to mention. CO2 is heavier then O2; therefore an O2 absorber on the bottom would have almost no benefit. The bottom is typically the best place to put your moisture absorption (desiccants) packets. Dave

ImaCannin | 07-30-2009 08:42 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar 1 Attachment(s) No Mylar bags here........ Jars or cans work just fine! Attachment 76612

Heimdhal | 07-30-2009 08:47 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaCannin (Post 1844345) No Mylar bags here........ Jars or cans work just fine! Attachment 76612
There she is!!! Really, so far I dont mind the bags and bucketts. Saves me from buying yet MORE equipment. THat said, how much are those canning presses?

Pat | 07-30-2009 10:07 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar I like the 1 gallon bags better, a 5 gallon bucket can hold an assortment of goodies.

Saul Mine | 07-30-2009 10:13 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar When you open a container you have committed to using the contents before they spoil. That is not always what you want to do. It's nice to use small bags inside your bucket. That allows you to make the amounts appropriate to what you can use in a reasonable time. It also allows you to put related materials in a bucket so you don't have to sort through several buckets to find what you want. A one gallon bag holds pretty close to five pounds of rice, flour, beans, sugar, etc. One gallon bags are easy to handle. Use one gallon bags. Put the label on the inside of the bag so it doesn't get knocked off.

Dave | 07-30-2009 10:14 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat (Post 1844489) I like the 1 gallon bags better, a 5 gallon bucket can hold an assortment of goodies.
Actually that is a great idea... Based on the number of people you are feeding you can say plan out the portions of raw ingredients say for a week or two. Package them in individual mylar bags and throw them in a bucket. Simple, neat and easy to keep track of.. Good thought. Dave

Stealinator | 07-30-2009 10:30 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar The only thing I used 5 gal buckets/mylar on is coffee beans, rice , regular beans and wheat berries and rolled oats. buckets either weighed 35# or 15# complete. After you do a couple not too hard at all . Like mentioned, after bag filled, pick up to 'pack' about an inch from top, I seal all using iron and 2x4 , leaving 1 inch for vac, suck out air, seal corner put lid and done (checked all day later, nice and sucked in, air tight) Will be doing 8 more buckets next weekend.

Heimdhal | 07-30-2009 10:33 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar That is a good idea, but how good of a seal does a standard 1 gallon ziplock hold? Or are you talking about 1 gallon mylar bags? I could probably make some smaller bags from one large mylar bag, or use my food saver bags. I actualy pulled 5 lbs of the rice into a freezer 1 gallon ziplock bag for immediate uses.

StrawMan=Corporation | 07-30-2009 11:28 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar I used Gamma seals and Gamma food storage containers called Vittles Valults. The larger of the two of these items at the link are selling for 28.49 at costco wharehouse stores. Thats about half of the price most online sources sell this item at. Locate them with the items # 494989 http://www.gamma2.net/new/stackables.html I also used this item and found that 100 lbs of rice will fit into it. Its quoted at being a 50 lb container but that was most likely dog food and rice is much more compact. http://www.gamma2.net/new/VV_50.html And when sealing time came used a candle and nitrogen. http://www.survival-center.com/foodfaq/ff17-co2.htm The main idea was when the gas in introduced into the food bucket or container you know its full when the candle extinguishes.

Avalon | 08-01-2009 07:57 AM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar I don't put a towel over the mylar bags when I seal it with an iron. I use a wood board underneath and put the iron directly on the mylar..

Eyebone | 08-01-2009 04:51 PM
Re: Things I've learned of Mylar I've been sealing the bags with a piece of scrap wood and a heat gun.

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