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- - 1st Gun vs More Silver (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=126716)

Bob | 04-13-2007 12:47 AM
1st Gun vs More Silver I've got a bunch of cash burning a whole in my pocket right now (about $800ish). I had that earmarked for another 40 ounces of silver and some gold, but I'm starting to reassess that lately. First off, I have some bullion, nothing like many of you I'm sure but a start. I currently have no guns. My thought is leaning towards picking up a Springfield XD-9 right now, and maybe maybe maybe a SKS or an AK. It would probably be just the XD-9 for now and an SKS/AK later. I've been thinking on this gun purchase for a while, but the thought of being on some govt list has been holding me back (silly paranoia :)). Do you guys have any opinions on this? Should I rush out and get a gun right away? Or should I stick the money into silver and pick it up whenever? Thanks.

Infidel | 04-13-2007 01:04 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Get a gun. If one get a shotgun. If 2 get a shotgun and a pistol First shotgun [Mossberg 500 Winchester 1300] then pistol [Not 9 MM] then rifle [SKS or AK] Govt can not legally keep your info after you get checked out. legally

eyeofliberty | 04-13-2007 01:58 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Yup, get a gun or guns. Learn how to use them if you don't know already. Practice often. Do you live in the city or country? I am biased towards battle rifles over carbines, but I can see the wisdom of a shotgun if you're in the city. For handguns, I like Glock 22 (full-size .40S&W) or Glock 23 (compact .40S&W). No nonsense, damn fine handguns. Go private sales if you can find them (I rarely can in my area). Stock up on ammo for both. In '08, we'll probably get stuck with a Democrat president to go along with our Dem legislators, and then the gun-grabbing will begin in earnest. They've already been ratcheting it up since the '06 elections. Then, buy more silver!

MOD1 | 04-13-2007 02:08 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Just a suggestion. Acquire a modern firearm now and learn how to properly use it. The PM can wait. Maintain enough reserve funds for ammunition and periodic practice. You must practice - skills with firearms are volatile. Mod1

REV127 | 04-13-2007 08:30 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Definately get a gun, whatever it is. Depending on what state you live in you can buy private sale, off the books. Try www.gunsamerica.com for starters. Also depending on the laws of your area if you get a pistol first you can either get a concealed carry permit or at least put it in your glovebox when you're out and about. That isn't as easy with a longarm. The first rule is have a gun, a shotgun or battlerifle at home is worthless compared to even a .22 revolver in hand. You're going to need more than just a gun, too. You should have at least three magazines for a pistol as you'll want to be able to reload and it is a part that can be lost or damaged. A semi auto with no magazine doesn't have anywhere to put more than one bullet. Speaking of which you'll need ammo, too. 1,000rds of decent ammo can be found for under $200 for almost all calibers. If you live where there are wide open spaces it would behoove you to have a rifle good at long range shooting. If you live where there is much cover and concealment a .30cal rifle whether that be the 7.62x39, the .308 or other will do better at busting through intermediate barriers and staying on target with enough force than the smaller calibers like the 5.56 or 5.45x39. If you're in an urban environment you have to make a tactical decision on whether you want massive stopping power against one or two home invaders like you'd get with a shotgun, or if you want to be able to engage multiple assailants or threats at a longer range such as a gang coming down your street. If you want the later then you should pick a pistol caliber carbine if you're worried about overpenetration or a rifle if you want to be able to defeat cover. You can of course get a rifle, pistol and shotgun and $800 is enough to do all three which would seem to the answer for any situation but its sort of a false economy. Odds are good the badguy will shoot back at you, you'd be better off with 1 or 2 guns and some armor. One of the next obvious questions would be "which guns?" Everyone has their own opinion on that. Guns are just tools like any other, you have to pick the right one for the job and that should be heavily influenced by practical considerations of yourself and your environment rather than hype or popular opinion.

Kahlil Gibran | 04-13-2007 08:37 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel (Post 570994) Get a gun. If one get a shotgun. If 2 get a shotgun and a pistol First shotgun [Mossberg 500 Winchester 1300] then pistol [Not 9 MM] then rifle [SKS or AK] Govt can not legally keep your info after you get checked out. legally
Glock model 17 then a Remington model 870 if you live in the city.

<SLV> | 04-13-2007 09:35 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver If you aren't going to carry, then get a revolver. I like my Taurus Model 66 - 7-shot .357mag. Revolvers are no-nonsense for home defense. If you are going to carry, then semi-automatic might make sense (although S&W makes a great hammerless little revolver in 5-shot .38 Special +P). I have a Kahr PM-9 - it is the thinnest and smallest 9mm available. Get your sidearm, then get a rifle/shotgun. If it is going to be used in the house, get a 12-gauge w/18 inch barrel - that Remington 870 28" barrel is hard to swing around indoors. If you need a rifle to hold back the mobs at your perimiter then consider .223, .308, or for a large piece of property .30-06. If you're comfortable with a bolt action, then Savage makes a solid rifle. If you'd rather have semi-auto, then Ruger's mini-14 will get you into .223, and Brownings BAR is a smooth semi-auto rifle. Stay away from mil-surp for your first or only rifle. You need something more reliable than that. Think used modern. Mil-surp is great for a bunch of BUGs, but be sure it is chambered in a common calliber (good luck). This pretty much leaves you with the AK or Springfields - the first costing half of the latter. PS - I hear the military is retiring the M16. Do you think we'll see this in the mil-surp department anytime soon?

Tn...Andy | 04-13-2007 09:43 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Water-Food-Fuel-Gun-PMs In that order.

Goldfinger | 04-13-2007 09:51 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Absolutely go for the gun first. What good is all the PMs in the world if you can't defend them or yourself? Personally, I would go for the handgun first, as I believe it imperative to have an easily concealable weapon. Contrary to popular belief, packing around a long gun in many scenarios wouldn't be practical and/or may draw the wrong kind of attention to yourself. The XD platform appears excellent, although I prefer Glock in SHTF due to its simplicity and parts availability. I also think 9mm is perfect, particularly given the fact that you are a novice shooter. Not to mention that ammo is cheap, readily available and in the unfortunate event that you may ever have to face an opponent with body armor (you never know these days), a 9mm would be many times more effective than the larger calibers. Despite the fact that I think a concealable handgun is of the highest priority, I would plan on acquiring more fire power for home defense. A good 12ga is deadly in closer quarters, reliable/user friendly and would be very versatile, as it could double for game hunting of any size. I also like the AK platform. They are cheap, extremely reliable and can deliver ample firepower. I love .308's but I have to be honest, its tough finding ammo in bulk these days and when you do, its quite expensive. Finally, you get to the AR platform, which IMO is an excellent weapon in well trained hands. However, for a novice, I think its a poor choice.

Nuggethunter | 04-13-2007 09:54 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver I was in the gun shop the other day and told the shop owner I wanted to put away 5 each 45 calibres in the 1911 format for the long term , investment hold area and what would you recomend for parts and quality and good investment under $1000.00 Would you believe it ; he gave me this blank stare for a few seconds.... I really believe he didnt have a clue. Then he gave this bs answer after I brought up colt and he said ' ya colts are great. I know more about guns than his salesman, whos 65 years old. smith and Wessons 45 1911 style made the bttom of the list on top 7 quality 45's , they feel good tooo.

Anty Ep | 04-13-2007 09:57 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by MOD1 (Post 571047) Just a suggestion. Acquire a modern firearm now and learn how to properly use it. The PM can wait. Maintain enough reserve funds for ammunition and periodic practice. You must practice - skills with firearms are volatile. Mod1
Very good advice and I would only ad "learn to use it properly AND SAFELY." The more I shoot the more chary I get around being around people dont practice and dont practice safely. If your first piece is going to be a handgun keep it simple and get a revolver.

jrog100 | 04-13-2007 10:27 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Consider staying away from the 9mm. 40 S&W is much better. Maybe a Kahr k40. You get what you pay for so remember that when you look at those $150 SKS's. The AK costs more and is about the same quality as the sks. Look at a Ruger Mini 30 or maybe even a bushmaster.

Ghost Recon | 04-13-2007 10:31 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Buy a XD subcompact 9 or 40. What good is having gold and silver if you can't protect it or yourself?

Darkside | 04-13-2007 10:38 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver I recommend getting a gun. Which gun? The Saiga S-12 Semi-automatic shotgun. It is based on the tried-and-true AK47 receiver design, so you know it is reliable even if you neglect it. It is also very inexpensive. Finally, with semi-automatic action there is no need to pump or manual load the next shot which in the chaos of an invasion in the middle of the night could make the difference between life and death. I got mine just a few weeks ago and am so glad I got it. I also got a night vision monocular so I feel ready to defend my home day or night :D

thorgrim | 04-13-2007 10:57 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Get the gun before you get more PM's. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> If you decide to get an XD go for a 45 or maybe a 40. I have smallish hands and the XD 45 still feels pretty comfortable to me and it has a whole lot of firepower. I would get a handgun before I would get a shotgun. Mostly because it is easier to conceal.<o:p></o:p>

Anty Ep | 04-13-2007 11:28 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 571314) Very good advice and I would only ad "learn to use it properly AND SAFELY." The more I shoot the more chary I get around being around people dont practice and dont practice safely. If your first piece is going to be a handgun keep it simple and get a revolver.
if you must have an auto, KG is right get a glock 17. that is the simplest auto, very prolific, and there will always be a good supply of 9x19 even if TSHTF. If I can't have a 1911 setup, most prefered, but complicated, well if I cant have that style sidearm then I prefer the glock setup. but if you are on your first weapon dont get something complicated.

The Argent Dragon | 04-13-2007 11:30 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver It may not be popular........but if I were you - I'd buy the SILVER. Then sell in May/June when it peaks - use that money to buy a gun and still have some SILVER left over ! :coolbeer: You can't loose........and I don't think you need a gun just yet.

<SLV> | 04-13-2007 11:31 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside (Post 571381) I recommend getting a gun. Which gun? The Saiga S-12 Semi-automatic shotgun. It is based on the tried-and-true AK47 receiver design, so you know it is reliable even if you neglect it. It is also very inexpensive. Finally, with semi-automatic action there is no need to pump or manual load the next shot which in the chaos of an invasion in the middle of the night could make the difference between life and death. I got mine just a few weeks ago and am so glad I got it. I also got a night vision monocular so I feel ready to defend my home day or night :D
Awesome! It's on my list of MUST HAVES! http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/admi...mix12green.jpg

Darkside | 04-13-2007 11:47 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 571444) Awesome! It's on my list of MUST HAVES!
Yeah I was just as excited when I first saw them and am even more so now that I own one. I got the very basic version, which I actually purchased from that same web site you got that picture from. Since I live in New York- land of the gun nazis- I am very limited in how I can customize my gun. I can't even put a pistol grip on it. But the Saiga S-12 has soooo many modification possibilities out there which only adds to it's appeal. That one you pictured is a modification done by Tromix, if you go to their web site http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm and click on "SHOTGUNS" form the menu on the left you can see the wide variety of modifications he can do for you. There are so many awesome ones! The gun also has a very active community online at this site: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showforum=2. If you ever have any kind of questions about the gun you can rely on that community to help you out. Like I said I bought mine at Atlantic Firearms but since then I have found a site rrarms.com that sell it for even less. I'm sure there are other places where it is evne cheaper.

mjk1971 | 04-13-2007 11:54 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver You MUST purchase the gun...no question...no equivocation. You can "own" ten tons of silver but without guns, the first gun-wielding punk owns you and the silver...

mjk1971 | 04-13-2007 11:56 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 571443) It may not be popular........but if I were you - I'd buy the SILVER. Then sell in May/June when it peaks - use that money to buy a gun and still have some SILVER left over ! :coolbeer: You can't loose........and I don't think you need a gun just yet.
Do you have guns? If not, where do you live? I'd like to take your PM stash. :D

<SLV> | 04-13-2007 12:20 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside (Post 571466) Yeah I was just as excited when I first saw them and am even more so now that I own one. I got the very basic version, which I actually purchased from that same web site you got that picture from. Since I live in New York- land of the gun nazis- I am very limited in how I can customize my gun. I can't even put a pistol grip on it. But the Saiga S-12 has soooo many modification possibilities out there which only adds to it's appeal. That one you pictured is a modification done by Tromix, if you go to their web site http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm and click on "SHOTGUNS" form the menu on the left you can see the wide variety of modifications he can do for you. There are so many awesome ones! The gun also has a very active community online at this site: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showforum=2. If you ever have any kind of questions about the gun you can rely on that community to help you out. Like I said I bought mine at Atlantic Firearms but since then I have found a site rrarms.com that sell it for even less. I'm sure there are other places where it is evne cheaper.
Does yours have an 18" barrel? I'm seeing some online with a 24" barrel - seems impractical to me. Also, check out the price of their .223 / AK rifles! Under $250! The saiga might be the cheapest way to build a small armory. One more thing about mil-surp - everyone MUST have at least one CZ-52. That little pistol is fine, and cheap! $170 will get you a pistol that will slice and dice body armor. Ammo ain't too bad also.

Darkside | 04-13-2007 12:24 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 571527) Does yours have an 18" barrel? I'm seeing some online with a 24" barrel - seems impractical to me. Also, check out the price of their .223 / AK rifles! Under $250! The saiga might be the cheapest way to build a small armory. One more thing about mil-surp - everyone MUST have at least one CZ-52. That little pistol is fine, and cheap! $170 will get you a pistol that will slice and dice body armor. Ammo ain't too bad also.
Yes it has an 18" barrel, +1 inch or so with the choke. I definitely think 24" would be impractical. I just wish I could put a pistol grip on this baby and a shorter stock then It would feel even more comfortable. Alas... NY gun laws... The Saigas are great, built in Russia by the Izhmash armory so you know it's good quality, not like some of the AKs people buy from random Eastern European nations.

Prometheus | 04-13-2007 01:08 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob (Post 570984) My thought is leaning towards picking up a Springfield XD-9 right now, and maybe maybe maybe a SKS or an AK. It would probably be just the XD-9 for now and an SKS/AK later.
You've went with exactly what I would reccomend for 800 bucks. First off the XD9. Even if you had more to spend I'd still reccomend it. My wife and I both have one and we love it. I'm nearing 1k rounds in mine that are mostly hollowpoints and I've had ZERO malfunctions. Get it. Second and AK. The AK is the most reliable autoloading rifle in the world. Other atributes are arguable, but reliability isn't one of them. Rugged, simple... whats not to love. The SKS is out. With the two being so close in price, why settle for 'second' best. Don't even consider it. Loading out your AK. Consider a SAR2 or WASR 2 (AK74's). You can get 1,080 round sealed tins of 1990's production STEEL CORE 5.45x39 for $118.00 a tin. 12 cents a round delivered.... thats a steal and half with the prices .223, 7.62x39 and .308 are commanding nowadays. Magazines, you can still buy 12 packs of 30 round military magazines for 45 bucks in good-excellent condition. Screw glocks, AR's, HK's, FAL's ect. ect.... worry about them later, besides with the cheapest .223 and .308 starting at 24 cents a round, why enter those calibers right now anyway? You are starting from scratch... make the best move right now. If you can only buy one, get a pistol. The XD9 will allow accurate shots out to 50 yards and if you get real good you can hit center of mass at 100 yards w/o much effort. Get a full size (4" service model) XD, not a compact. The inch you save isn't worth the accuracy you suffer or the rounds you lose. If you were concealed carrying everyday and already had a full size pistol already the compact would be a good option. But your not and you don't. Second gun should be a rifle. Shotgun is WAY down the list IMO. This isn't the 1900's anymore and assailiants come in groups quite often. With border and race wars just itching to kcik off you'd be poorly served by a shotgun. Don't get me wrong, a scattergun against 1 or 2 home intruders is one of your best options.. going against a riot a shotgun is a poor idea, not to mention the limits of range you have... just ignore a shotgun until you get your rifle and pistol and I'd even wait until I had a .22lr pistol and rifle before thinking about shotguns. Good luck and get some practice on whatever you go with.

wallew | 04-13-2007 02:12 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver You say 'another 40 ounces of silver'. That leaves me with the impression you already have some. GOOD. How about spare food? Spare water? Extra TP (thinking of you Ponce)? Is your emergency med kit up to date? If those bases are all covered, then perhaps a firearm. But it does depend on where you are located. In a city? Most fighting will be done at 100 yards (300 ft) or less. Not a good distance for a pistol or shotgun. My personal suggestion would be to consider a lever action rifle and a revolver in the same caliber. I would consider either .357, .44 mag. or .45LC. You could purchase both a hand gun (or two) AND a lever action rifle in the same caliber and still have a few sheckels left over for a case of good quality ammo. Then you are set. Pistols are great for clearing a house, something I won't be doing, but they are also better than having nothing at hand in an emergency. I would consider any handgun's range at 25 yards OR LESS. STAY AWAY from Smith & Wesson, especially if we are talking semi-auto. About four years ago, the went to a process called MIM for a lot of the internal parts. That's Metal Injected Molding for those who are unaware. They are experiencing a larger than normal failure of internal parts. They have not gotten the process down well enough to depend on an currently built S&W. Now if you can snatch up an OLDER S&W revolver, go for it. Something made NO LATER than 1990. Shotguns are great for dealing with close in targets, but not necessarily real close. Say 10 yards out to about 50 yards. Past that range, they lose effectiveness. Though there is something really intimidating about jacking a round into the chamber of a pump shotgun. Mossberg, Remington (just got bought out, so prices are going up soon), Winchester. All are reliable. Stay away from semiauto, mainly because once broken, replacement parts can become a bear to find. Rifles can come in all shapes and sizes. Milsurp IS NOT a bad way to go, as long as you know your stuff, or have a friend who does. Being a gunsmith, it's a rare day when I purchase anything BUT milsurp. SKS is the lower end of battle rifle. Next up would be the AK or the AR. After that, the HK. Then perhaps consider several US milsurp rifles. The CMP is about to release about 35,000 milsurp M1 Carbines. Great little gun. Price should be around $500. If I were just starting out, I would probably consider one 2" revolver, one 4" revolver and one lever action. My caliber of choice is .357 or .38 +P - though I do like the .44 mag and the .44 spl rounds as well. If you can handle it, the 45 Long Colt (LC) is a brutal man stopping round. For an inexpensive revolver, consider Rossi or Taurus. For a lever action, there are lots of choices, I am including the linky for Cimmaron firearms for the lever action. Just lets you look. The idea of ONE CALIBER is as old as the "OLD WEST". Taurus Rossi Marlin lever action Winchester lever action Cimmaron Firearms Now, for the rest of you that 'just gotta have' the latest, greatest, big woo firearm. Centerfire systems is having a sale on the FN Five Seven Force Pistol. For RIGHT AT $1000. Comes with a padded hard case and three (3) twenty round mags. Ammo is $25 PER BOX OF 50. Then all you need is the civvy version of the P9 and you're set. Centerfire Systems Five Seven FN Force pistol

Master_Ho | 04-13-2007 04:56 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon (Post 571443) It may not be popular........but if I were you - I'd buy the SILVER. Then sell in May/June when it peaks - use that money to buy a gun and still have some SILVER left over ! :coolbeer: You can't loose........and I don't think you need a gun just yet.
What he said!!!

wallew | 04-13-2007 05:15 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver The ONLY problem with that sentiment is that IF you need a gun and don't have it, then you probably will be too late. Go ask all those people in South Central, LA. Besides, if you already have some silver, why would you want to 'buy high' and then 'hope' to sell higher? Why not buy on the 'dips' and split your money between PM's and firearms? Better safe than sorry.

Maddie | 04-13-2007 08:57 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Definitely get the guns. Your choices are fine. The Springfield XDs are great. I have one in .45 that fits my hand so perfectly and naturally that I bought it purely on impulse (picked it up and didn't want to put it down!). I love it. The SKS is also a good choice. There can be quite a difference in quality with them. I'd suggest that since you don't have a safeful of other guns to play with (yet), you consider spending a little extra to get a good quality SKS that you'll really enjoy shooting (take a look at the Russian ones maybe). They're fun. Finding good 7.62x39 ammo is a bit of a pain these days, though. Your first guns should be ones that you'll enjoy shooting. They don't have to be your all-purpose home-defense/SHTF guns. You can get those later. Soon enough you'll be addicted and lying awake at night pondering the great questions of the universe: .308 or .223? Battle rifle or an AR? 1911 or something that's not as totally cool as a 1911? Firepower vs. carries well? and the ever-popular: How can I sneak another gun in the house without my spouse calling the divorce attorney?

<SLV> | 04-13-2007 09:06 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 572083) Definitely get the guns. Your choices are fine. The Springfield XDs are great. I have one in .45 that fits my hand so perfectly and naturally that I bought it purely on impulse (picked it up and didn't want to put it down!). I love it. The SKS is also a good choice. There can be quite a difference in quality with them. I'd suggest that since you don't have a safeful of other guns to play with (yet), you consider spending a little extra to get a good quality SKS that you'll really enjoy shooting (take a look at the Russian ones maybe). They're fun. Finding good 7.62x39 ammo is a bit of a pain these days, though. Your first guns should be ones that you'll enjoy shooting. They don't have to be your all-purpose home-defense/SHTF guns. You can get those later. Soon enough you'll be addicted and lying awake at night pondering the great questions of the universe: .308 or .223? Battle rifle or an AR? 1911 or something that's not as totally cool as a 1911? Firepower vs. carries well? and the ever-popular: How can I sneak another gun in the house without my spouse calling the divorce attorney?
I swear that I dreamt last night that I was clearing my house with a FN Herstal PS90. Perhaps it was the fact that I was sleeping with my new Remington shotgun... you should always sleep with a new gun the first night - helps the gun get over the nerves of being in a new home. I know we aren't supposed to post nudity, but seriously, check out the curves on this work of art! http://www.fnherstal.com/html/p90/P90.jpg

electric-amish | 04-13-2007 09:40 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Recon (Post 571373) Buy a XD subcompact 9 or 40. What good is having gold and silver if you can't protect it or yourself?
Hey Ghost Recon How can I find out the relative merit of a 40 over a nine? I have a bug to get one of the new M&Ps and can't decide. Thanks for any info forwarded. E-A

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Master_Ho | 04-13-2007 10:33 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 571884) The ONLY problem with that sentiment is that IF you need a gun and don't have it, then you probably will too late. Go ask all those people in South Central, LA. Besides, if you already have some silver, why would you want to 'buy high' and then 'hope' to sell higher? Why not buy on the 'dips' and split your money between PM's and firearms? Better safe than sorry.
You have a point - however - here's another point - somehow he's gotten along this far without a gun - and most of us expect the metals to go up in the next few weeks and then go down in late May or June. He could invest in metals - go and research, and experiement at ranges, till he knows what he wants and then, after he sells, take the profit and buy the gun he wants. There is violence all the time - but most of us manage to get thru life without running into it - I suspect that while a few of us who have guns have had to pull them, and a small fraction have had to actually shoot them to protect themselves, most of the gun owners here have not.......... Even in So LA, yes, there was that incident, but its not like its like that everyday.........and, unless he feels he lives in a very dangerous area, or expects a Mad Max socienty in the next 8-12 weeks (give or take)......then he can probably survive a few more weeks, take the profit and get the guns then. Neither way is right - neither way is wrong........ And, for the record - in case anyone thinks I am suggesting this cause I must be "an antigun liberal or something" I have had guns for years - Glocks in both 45 and 9mm, backup S&W in 9mm and two shotguns........and, in the last 17 years or so, have been glad to know I've had them, but only had to pull one once when I was in a bad neighborhood far from home.....and never had to shoot anyone........not even "just to watch him die!" (Johnny Cash)

elroy | 04-13-2007 11:10 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver I would definitely be getting some protection. Nearly all of the previous advice is good, albeit much is personal preference. One post did mention a Ruger Mini 14, however these are notorious for being inaccurate. Also the Mini 30 however I've never heard anything about it's accuracy, good or bad. I feel a handgun that you can carry concealed is probably the 1st thing to get. Think about this prior to buying. How hard is it to conceal, how heavy is it, what will you need to wear to conceal it etc. Actually carrying a handgun brings up a whole lot of new issues besides caliber, brand and how it feels in your hand. Remember a 5 shot .38 special or a .380 in your pocket is better than a .45 at home in the night stand because it was to heavy to carry.

Halophyte | 04-14-2007 01:57 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver My pick. 38 cal S&W airweight with hydrashock ammo.

buff01 | 04-14-2007 02:46 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Definitely get a gun. I'd recommend a GLOCK 9mm... you can't break it and it will never misfire.

Master_Ho | 04-14-2007 03:55 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 572321) I realize the 9mm fans will be offended by this but the nine sillymeter is notorious for being a poor manstopper when the shootee is highly motivated. Years ago when I hung out with my cop friends and other pistol packin' pros (e.g. the gov's executive security detail and the APD SWAT team, amongst others), the matter of the nine sillymeter's poor performance would come up from time to time. There were numerous cases where the BG would be on a speed run, get shot SEVERAL times with nine sillymeter, and keep on fighting.
Totally agree - the problem is some people can't handle a 45 (and when I bought mine, it was that or 9mm for Glocks) due to the size of their hands. I took my tiny girlfriend to the range to teach her how to work the gun - if it was going to be around, I wanted her to knwo how to use it.........she shot it once and came off the floor at a 45 degree angle and bounced off my chest. I told her, Ok, you see how it is, now try it again.......second shot, same thing........so i bought a 9mm Glock so she had one she could handle. Same with my wife, a 45 is too big.........the 9mm she can handle.

Master_Ho | 04-14-2007 04:52 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 572328) Because of the double stack mag, the Glock 21 (.45) is hard for some folks to get a good purchase on. I taught a former sweetheart (she was 5'3" and had never fired a shingle round of ammo in her life) to shoot starting out on a Colt Gov't. Model .45. I spent considerable time showing her how to handle it, stance, aiming, grip, etc. She fired one round of standard ball ammo and was in the black. She looked back at me and I said "Good, now shoot again." The second shot was in the x-ring at 10 yards. She turned back and looked at me with this big grin on her face and said, "THIS is FUN!". She then proceed to put a nice group in the bull as I thought to myself, "I hope she never gets pissed off at me now." When we first met, she was anti-gun.
Great move - I stuck with the Glock cause my thinking was it was easeir to have two guns that were the enough the same that it was easier to clean, and teach her to clean.........and just - at the time it made sense. Then I asked dozens of cops and detectives what they carried for backup and - surprisingly - the answer was "LadySmith" - same as the fullsize S&W but a little slimmer.............so I got that, and man, its my favorite to carry and shoot. Yes, I wish it was a 45, but man, it fits nicely in a pocket (I have holsters too) and even in a boot. Everyone I take shooting likes the Glock but likes the Lady even more. Its also the top recommeded gun for women (or was at the time).

Maddie | 04-14-2007 07:33 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Just for the record, my youngest sister has been enthusiastically shooting .45s since she was 11 years old and used to regularly tag along with my high school friends and I when we went shooting after school. We were all shooting Colt government models or Commanders in those days. My sister was thin, but otherwise she was a normal-sized fifth-grader. At that age, she wouldn't have won any tournaments, but she could consistently hit the black at 30 feet.

<SLV> | 04-14-2007 08:12 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Halophyte (Post 572293) My pick. 38 cal S&W airweight with hydrashock ammo.
Excellent suggestion. Hammerless gun for easy pocket carry, simple double action revolver, AND Federal Hydrashock is amazing ammunition for personal defense. I won't load any of my protection sidearms with anything else - it's worth the price to be adequately prepared. PS - I've seen these used for about $250 - You'll have some money left over for those PMs :)

REV127 | 04-14-2007 08:51 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver I have some experience in this field. 9mm failure to stops have nothing to do with the capability of the cartridge.

Fiat Mutiny | 04-14-2007 09:21 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver I vote gun. I'd start with a revolver for home protection and it's convenient to take with you on errands. It's not the best home defense weapon, but it is very versatile, i.e. you can't pack a shotgun to the local watering hole. TSHTF could happen to you the moment a bad guy knocks on your door and you don't own a gun. Call me paranoid, but I grab my revolver prior to opening the door everytime someone knocks on my door that I do not recognize. Meaning, you don't have to wait until society crumbles (further) in order to feel the need to own a gun. Tonight might be your night that a home invasion happens to you. They happen all the time, you have become more of a target if anyone, including friends, know that you own silver already. Always remember gun safety if you have children or if they visit you.

Veritas | 04-15-2007 03:48 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob (Post 570984) I've got a bunch of cash burning a whole in my pocket right now (about $800ish). I had that earmarked for another 40 ounces of silver and some gold, but I'm starting to reassess that lately. First off, I have some bullion, nothing like many of you I'm sure but a start. I currently have no guns. My thought is leaning towards picking up a Springfield XD-9 right now, and maybe maybe maybe a SKS or an AK. It would probably be just the XD-9 for now and an SKS/AK later. I've been thinking on this gun purchase for a while, but the thought of being on some govt list has been holding me back (silly paranoia :)). Do you guys have any opinions on this? Should I rush out and get a gun right away? Or should I stick the money into silver and pick it up whenever? Thanks.
Purchase the gun with cash and buy from a private dealer. What state do you live in?

Veritas | 04-15-2007 03:50 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel (Post 570994) Govt can not legally keep your info after you get checked out. legally
Nor can the President declare war, imprison American citizens indefinately, and never charge them with a crime....

Veritas | 04-15-2007 03:52 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeofliberty (Post 571038) Stock up on ammo for both. In '08, we'll probably get stuck with a Democrat president to go along with our Dem legislators, and then the gun-grabbing will begin in earnest. They've already been ratcheting it up since the '06 elections.
I agree 100%. Once Hitlery takes over in the White House, it will be much more difficult to get guns and ammo - especially off the books.

Veritas | 04-15-2007 03:58 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 571297) Water-Food-Fuel-Gun-PMs In that order.
How do you determine how much fuel is necessary? Enough fuel to take you where?

Veritas | 04-15-2007 04:05 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by mjk1971 (Post 571481) Do you have guns? If not, where do you live? I'd like to take your PM stash. :D
I would watch what I say if I were you. He may call the cops :afraid: when you break into his home!!

Veritas | 04-15-2007 04:20 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 572089) I swear that I dreamt last night that I was clearing my house with a FN Herstal PS90. Perhaps it was the fact that I was sleeping with my new Remington shotgun... you should always sleep with a new gun the first night - helps the gun get over the nerves of being in a new home. I know we aren't supposed to post nudity, but seriously, check out the curves on this work of art! http://www.fnherstal.com/html/p90/P90.jpg
Ugh!! I am SO offended SLV! Cover her up!

Veritas | 04-15-2007 08:18 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Sukhoi - I understand and agree with the need to keep some fuel on hand. If Andy is using strictly for the things you mentioned (powering the chainsaw, lawn mower, etc..) then that makes sense to me. I also think it would be a good product to barter with. Keeping enough on hand to drive around locally also makes sense loading up the wagon to trek 3000 miles across the country seems a bit impractical. What I want to know - from anyone who sees storing fuel as a fairly high priority is - how much fuel are you keeping. I know that the amount of fuel will vary but I am just trying to get an idea as to how much most people see as necessary. For my own needs, while I don't you can have too much if you have a safe place to store it, I think keeping a minimum of 50-60 gallons is a good start. I guess ideal would be at least 1,000 gallons. Just curious if anyone is actually storing up that much. If you are, how and where is it being stored?

Tn...Andy | 04-15-2007 10:03 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 573225) I'm thinking Andy is referring to fuel/energy to take care of homestead needs, e.g. refrigeration, heating, lighting, etc. such as gasoline for a chain saw or tractor, LPG, solar, etc. Of course it would depend upon one's plans. Having enough fuel to propel your automobile 3,000 miles (or whatever) would be a good option to have, IMO.
Yep.....what SF said. My fuel storage, and what it's for: 300 gallons of gasoline in a tank on a stand used for normal needs around here.....lawnmower, chainsaws, sawmill engine, generators, etc.....+ we occasionally fill the car or truck. This tank gets refilled as needed. An additional 6--55gal drums sealed with PRI-G. This gets rotated into the 300 gal tank above and the drums refilled for storage. 180gal tank of diesel on stand used for tractor, garden tiller and dozer. And additional 6--55gal drums of diesel sealed with PRI-D Two 55gal drums of K-1 kerosene for lamps, lanterns, long term. 20 more 5 gallon metal cans of K-1 simply because I got a whale of a deal on them on closeout at Home Depot one spring. 500 gallon underground propane tank, used normally for hot water for the house and a small wall heater. Would last several years if just used for hot water, which it would in a SHTF situation. 12--100lb bottles of propane ( not quite 25 gallons each ) 6--20lb bottles WHOLE BUNCH of the little 1 lb cannisters because I got a couple Coleman propane lanterns those screw right on the bottom. Goal is 5 cords of firewood ahead of current year....which would mean I'd have 10 cords going into any winter period......though I'm having trouble finding time for that..... Have a Pioneer Maid wood cook stove in storage in one of my barns ( from Lehmans of Ohio) in addition to a stove in the basement we use now and my fireplace which is a main source of heat for the house.

Veritas | 04-15-2007 10:15 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Excellent post Andy, Thanks! That gives me a nice ballpark idea of the kind of preps I need to be making. Only other question...where do you store the 55 gal. drums? Can they be kept outside? Does sunlight pose a risk? Do you recommend keeping them in a shed? How long can the fuel sit in the drum?

Kahlil Gibran | 04-15-2007 10:18 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver No wonder Bush is not refilling the National Strategic Reserve! :smile: they moved it to Andy's place

Tn...Andy | 04-15-2007 10:29 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas (Post 573404) Excellent post Andy, Thanks! That gives me a nice ballpark idea of the kind of preps I need to be making. Only other question...where do you store the 55 gal. drums? Can they be kept outside? Does sunlight pose a risk? Do you recommend keeping them in a shed? How long can the fuel sit in the drum?
I store it in 55 gal drums because they cost nothing ( the local oil company will give them to me ) and I have a front loader on my tractor to move them around....I built some special pallets that hold one drum and makes moving them easy. I store mine in a shed that is built back into a hill, so they stay cool. I would NOT store them in a 'regular' shed if subject to summer heat, nor would I store them in open sunlight. The drums will expand and contract with heat/cooling, and leak. Butane is the the main ingredient of gasoline that boils off and leaves you with bad gasoline.....so your objective is a nice, steady, cool temp. The diesel I suspect you can store about forever..though I do rotate them every few years thru the 'regular' tank on the stand. Gasoline I have stored as long as 4 years with PRI-G and find it the same as fresh gasoline. I have no personal experience with longer than that. My kerosene has been stored for about 8 years now......and since I'm only planning on it for lamps, I never plan to rotate it.

Veritas | 04-15-2007 10:41 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Thanks Andy. Always good advice.

wallew | 04-16-2007 05:10 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 572429) Excellent suggestion. Hammerless gun for easy pocket carry, simple double action revolver, AND Federal Hydrashock is amazing ammunition for personal defense. I won't load any of my protection sidearms with anything else - it's worth the price to be adequately prepared. PS - I've seen these used for about $250 - You'll have some money left over for those PMs :)
Consider any Rossi 2" with or without the hammer AND BLACK TALON. They aren't cheap, you will probably have to go to a gun show to purchase it, but man, they are about the best. If you can't find BLACK TALON, consider the Federal Hydrashock, or a company that makes a round called RCBD (I think that's the name).

Mike_Templar | 04-17-2007 09:42 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver With the recent shootings, you might want to purchase the gun first and then the silver because gun legislation talk is sure to ratchet up and this always has an inflationary impact on gun prices.

Anty Ep | 04-17-2007 09:52 AM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Halophyte (Post 572293) My pick. 38 cal S&W airweight with hydrashock ammo.
finally an idea I can like :clap2:

____hoot____ | 04-17-2007 12:27 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Was checking the Rossi Arms site that Wallew provided and found something that might be of interest to you. Rossi is a Brazilian company that produces a single shot break open action shot gun that they are now offering rifle calibers in. They are selling matched sets of 20 gauge and drilled and tapped open sighted 308 barrels with their standard action [with sling swivels!] for $271.95. They also offer 223 22-250 243 270 30-06 and 7.62x39 barrels. I know that they also offer a 50 caliber black powder set, with an additional 22 rimfire barrel and shotgun barrel for $341; so their rimfire barrel should fit the same action. The rifle alone is $191 and weighs only 6 1/4 pounds or a pound less! in the lighter youth model. Would leave you $600 to buy a good revolver or pistol. I would suggest a compact hi-capacity 9 mm and a number of clips from what I have read about what worked in the meltdown that occurred in Argentina. This would give you firepower for in close and the ability to reach out with a full power battle round, in all new equipment at a total carry weight of less than ten pounds!

citizenkane | 04-17-2007 06:16 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 573406) No wonder Bush is not refilling the National Strategic Reserve! :smile: they moved it to Andy's place
I think TN_Andy is our strategic reserve. :)

HistoryStudent | 04-20-2007 05:38 PM
Re: 1st Gun vs More Silver Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 575262) finally an idea I can like :clap2:
Best pistol for size, firing, and rounds: Glock 23 13 shots and small Best shotgun 12 guage : 20" 6-shot pump Mossberg, Remington, Winchester I like 'em all. Best rifle: 308 Springfield National match Best revolver: older .357 Smith & Wesson or Ruger

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