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- - Urban Farming (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=397507)

Saoirse | 08-07-2009 08:45 PM
Urban Farming I know many GIMers here will simply say: "leave the city and move to a bug out place." But this is an interesting phenomenon I've come across on the airwaves recently. It is called: "Urban Farming." Does anyone have any thoughts about it? Here is a podcast about it http://www.onpointradio.org/2009/07/urban-farming Any thoughts about urban farming?

MagpieFairy | 08-07-2009 09:58 PM
Re: Urban Farming I believe it's going to be the next "cool" trend. These folks average 6,000 lbs of food a year on 3/10 of an acre: http://www.pathtofreedom.com/ They've been at it for a while... their home is just amazing. Right now people can't sell their homes... they can't move to more rural locations to homestead and quite frankly, many urban & suburban homes have enough yard to grow most of their own food. In the city, there's spaces on roofs, in vacant lots and even on baconies. By using container planting or small greenhouse, then adding aquaponics, small animal keeping, bee keeping (in some areas), bio-intensive and/or permaculture methods to the mix, then a whole lot of people & communities could teach themselves to have a year round garden & harvest right in their own yard or neighborhood. If Eliot Coleman can grow food year round in Maine on a fairly large scale (supplying local restaurants), then families and communities should be able to do their own with a little elbow grease and determination in more temperate locations for sure. As the middle class gets pinched and if there are any food shortages in the next couple of years, I expect to see a LOT of people putting in at least a few fruit trees and experimenting with small gardens. Our town sponsored a community garden this year where they rented gardening plots to people who couldn't garden in their yards or who couldn't afford or handle using a plow or tiller. One of the groups we work with is involved in getting some sort of community garden going for next year at UGA. Part of the food will go to the Athens Food Bank and community members will be welcome to get involved. The more people involved, the bigger the project will get. Yeah, I think Urban Homesteading and/or farming will be a growing movement over the next decade.... pun intended. :wink:

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 09:19 AM
Re: Urban Farming It is insulting for people to throw around the word farmer. Farmer is the term for a proffessional who makes his living being a farmer. If i put a bandaid on a cut i dont call myself a doctor.

Bloody Bill | 08-08-2009 09:44 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858208) It is insulting for people to throw around the word farmer. Farmer is the term for a proffessional who makes his living being a farmer. If i put a bandaid on a cut i dont call myself a doctor.
Farming is distinguished from hunting and gathering. Calling it gardening may be more appropriate, but it is still farming. I collect 500 tomatoes every year from my garden, I end up giving some away. Otherwise, you have to call up the county and have them send an agricultural inspector over just to sell your food at the swap meet or to a grocer/restaurant.

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 10:20 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858208) It is insulting for people to throw around the word farmer. Farmer is the term for a proffessional who makes his living being a farmer. If i put a bandaid on a cut i dont call myself a doctor.
* Main Entry: farm�er * Pronunciation: \ˈf�r-mər\ * Function: noun * Date: 14th century 1 : a person who pays a fixed sum for some privilege or source of income 2 : a person who cultivates land or crops or raises animals (as livestock or fish) 3 : yokel, bumpkin I cultivate & grow food year round, full-time. I raise chickens. Seems to me that fits the #2 description perfectly.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 11:28 AM
Re: Urban Farming I built a doghouse-guess i'm a carpenter. I fixed a leaky faucet-guess i'm a plumber I welded two pieces of metal-guess i'm a welder I grow some vegtables and have a chicken-guess i'm a farmer You people are hobbyists not farmers. All hat and no cow-common phrase

damoc | 08-08-2009 11:34 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858317) I built a doghouse-guess i'm a carpenter. I fixed a leaky faucet-guess i'm a plumber I welded two pieces of metal-guess i'm a welder I grow some vegtables and have a chicken-guess i'm a farmer You people are hobbyists not farmers. All hat and no cow-common phrase
ha ha well im a farmer either that or a pimp since i rent pollination services as a primary income source.

Acr0phobic | 08-08-2009 11:36 AM
Re: Urban Farming I think it takes a lot more effort to be a natural farmer raising all type of produce on half an acre, than a professional farmer. I live in the praries, there are vast canloa fields everywhere. With modern technology and monsanto, a "industrial farmer" rides his machine to irrigate, then rides his machine to plant, then rides his machine to spray, then rides his machine to harvest. Not that there is anything wrong with it, it allows thoes farmers huge yeilds to feed more people. MOst "hobby" farmers, lack industiral machines, and do everything by arm and back. I can say Canola farmers "job" is sitting on a machine pressing buttons. Nothing requires great effort or skill, since most industrial farmers i've seens are grossly overwieght. small farm families though, they spend a lot of time bent over, back to the sun.

Tn...Andy | 08-08-2009 11:42 AM
Re: Urban Farming There are different levels of all things. You have medical skills because you at least know what bandaid IS....that doesn't make you a general practitioner....who I'm sure brain surgeons look down on as kindergarten kids..... You have carpentry skills because you CAN build a doghouse. That doesn't necessarily make you a master carpenter that can lay out a curved staircase complete with curved rail built from scratch on site....or a cabinet builder, or so on..... You can call me anything you want or don't want...long as it's long distance......I raise more than 1/2 of the food I eat, and working on the other half. I sell or give away excess and derive some of my income from it. Tomato, Tomahto... so to speak.... :biggrin:

Saoirse | 08-08-2009 11:58 AM
Re: Urban Farming This is a philosophic problem that Plato takes up in several places, most notably in the early pages of The Republic. You can read the pertinent section here: http://homepage.mac.com/jholbo/writi...rep1/rep5.html That aside... Does any one have any experience with urban farming? Any tips?

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 12:29 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858317) I built a doghouse-guess i'm a carpenter. I fixed a leaky faucet-guess i'm a plumber I welded two pieces of metal-guess i'm a welder I grow some vegtables and have a chicken-guess i'm a farmer You people are hobbyists not farmers. All hat and no cow-common phrase
Really? Is the best input you can offer to this subject a dissertation on how you believe you're the only professional farmer here? You are arguing semantics that have nothing to do with the actual subject of the thread.... you're doing nothing productive here, simply disrupting what could be an interesting thread.

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 12:34 PM
Re: Urban Farming [QUOTE=Saoirse;1858344]This is a philosophic problem that Plato takes up in several places, most notably in the early pages of The Republic. You can read the pertinent section here: http://homepage.mac.com/jholbo/writi...rep1/rep5.html That aside... Does any one have any experience with urban farming? Any tips?[/QUOTE] Saoirse, are you trying to get something like this started? I can give you more info on the community garden that's being created at UGA, but it would help if you explained if there was something in particular you were looking for.....

damoc | 08-08-2009 12:34 PM
Re: Urban Farming i would recommend looking into permaculture, in short sustainable agriculture created by a man made ecosystem of interdependant plants and animals that man acts as caretaker of popular example is the chicken most people would say it provides eggs and meat maybee feathers but in a permaculture landscape it becomes egg and meat and feather producer also harvester tractor weed controll pest controll fertaliser factory recycling facility and others but i think you get the idea when you start thinking of the chicken in this way not only will you not need to be dependant on grain grown elswhere and shipped to you your whole place becomes much more productive than the average modern farm

thrifty_bob | 08-08-2009 12:35 PM
Re: Urban Farming You only need to grow/raise what you don't already have or can't get to survive... At any rate, if you are stuck in the city, why not make THE BEST OF IT?

damoc | 08-08-2009 12:40 PM
Re: Urban Farming also if you are going to raise animals as part of your farm stick to animals small enough that you can maintain a breeding stock unless it is for something such as milking goat. biggest problem i have seen with small farms is that they often produce more of something that can not be sold or used locally but not enough to make viable shipping to market in competition to big farms this may change with rising fuel and food prices

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 12:46 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by damoc (Post 1858383) i would recommend looking into permaculture, in short sustainable agriculture created by a man made ecosystem of interdependant plants and animals that man acts as caretaker of popular example is the chicken most people would say it provides eggs and meat maybee feathers but in a permaculture landscape it becomes egg and meat and feather producer also harvester tractor weed controll pest controll fertaliser factory recycling facility and others but i think you get the idea when you start thinking of the chicken in this way not only will you not need to be dependant on grain grown elswhere and shipped to you your whole place becomes much more productive than the average modern farm
I am getting guineas next year (in addition to the chickens) because guineas can be loosed in the garden while crops are growing and will not destroy plants or fruit/veggies. Not only permaculture, but aquaponics, sheet mulching, & bio-intensive methods using companion plantings are all parts of a whole self-sustainable micro-environment. Eliot Coleman grows crops year round at Four Season Farm in Maine. People in urban settings could well achieve the same using the heat from building exhausts that vent on their roofs along with a greenhouse. Garden Girl TV has a myriad of good videos about growing food in an urban setting. She uses raised beds in a set size that she makes chicken tractors and other top attachments for so she can rotate crops & chickens from bed to bed. There's so much good information out there right now.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 12:52 PM
Re: Urban Farming Magpie-tell me what you do for a living? Now with what ever it is-imagine me saying "i do a little of that to so i guess i'm that".Oh and by the way your doing it wrong because i read something.

Jimfrancisco | 08-08-2009 12:55 PM
Re: Urban Farming You come across as a complete f**king prick, by the way. Since when was farming a "profession", anyway? Let people do what they want to do, stop shoving your nose into every gardening/FARMING thread with an "As a professional farmer, I can say that..." Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858317) I built a doghouse-guess i'm a carpenter. I fixed a leaky faucet-guess i'm a plumber I welded two pieces of metal-guess i'm a welder I grow some vegtables and have a chicken-guess i'm a farmer You people are hobbyists not farmers. All hat and no cow-common phrase

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 12:56 PM
Re: Urban Farming Permaculture-theres the stupidest thing i have ever heard. Heh guess what guys i invented a circular object that can attach to objects to make those objects travel faster over the ground-i call it the WHEEL!!!!!!!!!

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 01:00 PM
Re: Urban Farming The reason i bother is to stop all the non-sence and lies that come out of people like magpies mouth.

randymatt | 08-08-2009 01:02 PM
Re: Urban Farming Sad this thread went down hill so fast. Edit: IBTL

damoc | 08-08-2009 01:04 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858419) Permaculture-theres the stupidest thing i have ever heard. Heh guess what guys i invented a circular object that can attach to objects to make those objects travel faster over the ground-i call it the WHEEL!!!!!!!!!
it might have been common sense farming 100 years ago but not now now its steralise the ground with pestaside herbacide add chemical fertaliser add a bit more pestacide then ship it all hundreds or thousands of miles to market how much sense does that make? how badly would your business be hurt by rapidly rising fuel prices? who will be the dummy when gas hits 10 dollars a gallon and farmers cant ship their produce to market?

Saoirse | 08-08-2009 01:06 PM
Re: Urban Farming As the OP here, I would politely ask CANUCKFARMER to create his/her own thread dedicated to debunking the rest of us, and to stop posting in this one, so as to preserve the purpose of this thread.

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 01:09 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858414) Magpie-tell me what you do for a living? Now with what ever it is-imagine me saying "i do a little of that to so i guess i'm that".Oh and by the way your doing it wrong because i read something.
I'm currently developing our farm, which btw was land farmed by by husband's G'father & Great G'father before his father farmed it, into a small organic "locally grown" market farm. Previously I managed one of the largest tropical greenhouses in the South, and when I say "managed," I mean took care of the plants. Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858419) Permaculture-theres the stupidest thing i have ever heard. Heh guess what guys i invented a circular object that can attach to objects to make those objects travel faster over the ground-i call it the WHEEL!!!!!!!!!
If you believe permaculture is a joke, then you should have spent more time on your education when you were younger than you did playing with tractors. Either join the thread as a productive contributor or leave the rest of us to discuss it intelligently. No one cares how many acres you grow wheat on or the semantics of who is or who isn't a "real" farmer.

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 01:12 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858426) The reason i bother is to stop all the non-sence and lies that come out of people like magpies mouth.
Lies? omg, you are a piece of work. Thanks for ruining Saoirse's thread because you have a personal beef with me.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 01:13 PM
Re: Urban Farming This is pretty fun,argueing with people who know nothing about something. Lets play a game-plant growing game.Now i'm a proffesional so i'm not going to laugh to hard at you guys. You all/most believe in a sustanible closed system free of fertilizers and chemicals.The symbios of animals and plants and men being the "caretakers".This is a great system because it is sustainable.Balance is acheived. Can i assume this is a correct statement? Please tell me your answers.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 01:14 PM
Re: Urban Farming Sorry this thread went sideways-but it is important.

damoc | 08-08-2009 01:15 PM
Re: Urban Farming yes thats about it accept it is not truly a closed system as air water and sunlight are all needed its just much less wastfull. ill play your game but you may want to start a new thread

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 01:20 PM
Re: Urban Farming Here's an article on John Jeavons, one of the most important names in permaculture. Quote:
"In the early 1970s, I went to the San Joaquin Valley, where approximately 30 percent of the food in the United States was being grown at the time, and I asked farmers this question: "What is the smallest area you can grow all your food and income on?' And they said, "Well, we don't know, but if it's a good year, if you have a thousand acres of wheat, you'll be able to pay your bills. ' " "I realized that if I wanted to know the answer to my question, it was 'tag- you're it.' " By 1972, Jeavons had formed Ecology Action and was farming nearly four acres in Palo Alto. Alan Chadwick, pioneer of the French intensive/biodynamic method of farming, came up from Santa Cruz to teach classes. The first edition of "How to Grow More Vegetables" was published two years later. At last, Jeavons was finding answers to the question he'd been asking farmers for years. "It takes about 15,000 to 30,000 square feet of land to feed one person the average U.S. diet," he says. "I've figured out how to get it down to 4,000 square feet. How? I focus on growing soil, not crops." Jeavons took the best of Chadwick's intensive farming techniques, including double-digging, composting and closely-spaced planting, and added a few ideas of his own. An organic farm should be a closed system, he reasoned. Off-the-farm inputs like manure, bagged compost, alfalfa meal and liquid kelp all require additional land, water and resources to produce. That, in Jeavon's view, is hardly sustainable agriculture. "We have an opportunity to grow very high yields using a fraction of the resources. One of the ways we do this is by growing all the organic matter that we need in the garden, or on the farm, that's producing the food." This closed-system concept is the hallmark of Jeavons's Grow Biointensive method, a term he registered as a trademark in 1999. It allows farmers to grow large quantities of food with few expenses beyond seeds and manual tools. And Jeavon's method is about more than dirt-under-the-nails farming; he has 30 years' worth of data to back him up. Each edition of "How to Grow More Vegetables" contains more statistical data than the one before: In the latest edition, for instance, you can calculate the precise number of beet seeds you'll need to grow 30 pounds of beets, along with the protein and calorie content, space requirements, and the percentage of the harvest (i.e., trimmings and inedible portions) that can be returned to the soil as compost. While this approach may be an interesting experiment for a university student, it could be a matter of survival for people all over the world. While this approach may be an interesting experiment for a university student, it could be a matter of survival for people all over the world. Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz0Nc3lurTz

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 01:20 PM
Re: Urban Farming No tricks,not a trick question. Basic agronomic principals. No funny logistical numbers involved.

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CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 01:23 PM
Re: Urban Farming Any other ametuers want to play a few rounds with a pro.

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 01:26 PM
Re: Urban Farming http://www.chelseagreen.com/content/...uture-of-food/ Quote:
Joel Salatin is a self-described environmentalist capitalist lunatic farmer, or as the New York Times calls him, �the high priest of the pasture.� You may remember him from The Omnivore�s Dilemma, in which he was profiled at length by Michael Pollan. Salatin�s innovative farming system�where the animals live according to their �ness,� the earth is used for symbiosis, and happiness and health is key�has gained attention from around the country, and he travels in the winter giving lectures and demonstrations. He is the author of a number of books including Holy Cows and Hog Heaven, Everything I Want to Do Is Illegal, You Can Farm, Pastured Poultry Profit$, and Family Friendly Farming. I talked to Joel Salatin about how he got started farming, his appearance in the new film Food, Inc., the government�s role in farm politics, and his ideas on the future of food. Suffice it to say, it�s not as simple as conventional vs. organic.
Salatin's own website. Quote:
Polyface Guiding Principles TRANSPARENCY: Anyone is welcome to visit the farm anytime. No trade secrets, no locked doors, every corner is camera-accessible. GRASS-BASED: Pastured livestock and poultry, moved frequently to new "salad bars," offer landscape healing and nutritional superiority. INDIVIDUALITY: Plants and animals should be provided a habitat that allows them to express their physiological distinctiveness. Respecting and honoring the pigness of the pig is a foundation for societal health. COMMUNITY: We do not ship food. We should all seek food closer to home, in our foodshed, our own bioregion. This means enjoying seasonality and reacquainting ourselves with our home kitchens. NATURE'S TEMPLATE: Mimicking natural patterns on a commercial domestic scale insures moral and ethical boundaries to human cleverness. Cows are herbivores, not omnivores; that is why we've never fed them dead cows like the United States Department of Agriculture encouraged (the alleged cause of mad cows). EARTHWORMS: We're really in the earthworm enhancement business. Stimulating soil biota is our first priority. Soil health creates healthy food.

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 01:34 PM
Re: Urban Farming A better look at the Path to Freedom folks. Quote:
�Succession Intensive Square Foot Gardening� means planting as much as you can in the smallest of plots. Our motto here on the urban homestead is that �small is beautiful and productive.� Even the smallest plot can provide one/two people with a supplement of herbs, vegetables and even fruit. Succession: Planting one after another Intensive: Planting types of plants that have compatibly rooting systems Square foot gardening: Plants are spaced as close as possible but leaving ONLY enough room for each root to get nutrients without stealing for the next plant Back in the the late 1980�s someone gave us a copy of How To Grow More Vegetables and we�ve been experimenting with intensive plantings ever since. I remember planting our huge garden in Florida (10 acres) as a kid and following the recommended spacing on back of the back of the seed packet. We threw the �recommended planting distance� out ages ago and are now growing in every square inch of ground (and slowly even taking up airspace) of our garden. Think, er, grow outside the box. Do be afraid to experiment - this ain�t your grandparents garden. Learn new growing ways, be creative. Of course some ideas/experiments will fail and some will, hopefully, be successful. Start with little experiments and watch yourself and your garden grow. With the majority of us stuck here in the cities it�s time to redefine agriculture by growing food in every available square inch. With a little work and commitment your plot may even be more productive than one twice it�s size! Any of you urban aggies out there keeping harvest yields per square foot?
Urban Homestead Facts LOCATION Pasadena, CA (Northwest Pasadena, one mile from downtown Pasadena) PROPERTY SIZE 1/5 acre (66' x 132' / 8,712 sq.ft.) GARDEN SIZE ~ 1/10 acre (3,900 sq.ft. / ~ 66' x 66') GARDEN DIVERSITY Over 350 different vegetables, herbs, fruits, berries FOOD PRODUCED 6,000 lbs annually challenging for 10,000 lbs in 2008 (read more) URBAN HOMESTEAD SUPPORTS 4 full-time adults, volunteers, and many clients ENERGY USAGE 6.5 kwh day (and going down!) SOLAR POWER PRODUCED 9000 kwh ( as of 10/20/08) GALLONS OF BIODIESEL MADE (since 2003) 1,500 gallons (as of 2/12/08) "EARTH IMPACT FOOTPRINT" 5.2 acres per person

scholarcoon | 08-08-2009 01:38 PM
Re: Urban Farming Ha ha. Canuck, I know "farmers" like you. You think bigger is better, but you sit all day in an air conditioned combine with GPS and radio and think you're still farming. Kudos to you for farming thousands of acres without breaking a sweat. You've forgotten how to read plants and soil for signs of disease and pest damage - all you know how to do is read the side of the fertilizer bag.

Dave Thomas | 08-08-2009 01:39 PM
Re: Urban Farming Being a professional farmer usually means being about one harvest from having the bank kick you off your farm. That's the sad part. At least that's what I keep seeing on CBS America.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 01:41 PM
Re: Urban Farming Answer-potassium,you eventually run out. http://www.prairiecca.ca/members/art...mNutrition.pdf http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=4680

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 01:42 PM
Re: Urban Farming Funny how you brought up disease coon.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 01:44 PM
Re: Urban Farming And dont play funny logistacal numbers b.s with me. Your manure and compost dont put back what is taken out.

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 01:44 PM
Re: Urban Farming The Path to Freedom family, the Dervaes, were just featured in a film which, ironically, screened its debut today, called Homegrown. Watch the Trailer for the film. They are truly inspiring and should be a great example for anyone looking to transform a small space into productive a garden.

Jimfrancisco | 08-08-2009 01:46 PM
Re: Urban Farming You aren't a farmer, Canuckfarmer - you are a factory worker. Simple as that.

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 01:47 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by scholarcoon (Post 1858484) Ha ha. Canuck, I know "farmers" like you. You think bigger is better, but you sit all day in an air conditioned combine with GPS and radio and think you're still farming. Kudos to you for farming thousands of acres without breaking a sweat. You've forgotten how to read plants and soil for signs of disease and pest damage - all you know how to do is read the side of the fertilizer bag.
That's exactly why I consider the smaller and medium-sized farms a much more valid form of farming. Today's megafarms have gotten away from understanding the land and the soil. That will also be their downfall.

damoc | 08-08-2009 01:53 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858488) Answer-potassium,you eventually run out. http://www.prairiecca.ca/members/art...mNutrition.pdf http://www.americanheart.org/present...dentifier=4680
i think you just proved our point any farming practice that returns to the soil as much potasium as possible is more sustainable and hence better. as a major purchaser of fertaliser you are much more dependant on fuel and petrochemicals for the production and shipment of fertalier than a farm practising sustainable farming. also permaculture has a much greater emphasis on long lived perenial crops than fast annuals which you seem to concentrate on? an example could be the oak trees that have survived on this property for thousands of years and still have not starved of potasium.

scyth | 08-08-2009 01:53 PM
Re: Urban Farming Hmmm...... My wife worked a lot with Alan Chadwick when he was in Santa Cruz. Meanwhile, I was a Ruth Stout fan (still am). As a younger man I worked both family operations and larger, "commercial" operations. In the early eighties, teamed up with another individual And started a neighborhood urban garden in SE Portland, Oregon Which was a fantastic success. So I'll put it bluntly. If we don't get out of the oil and military-industrial complex based Agricultural applications - including the present GMO fad - We are truly hosed. The present agribiz paradigm can be described as "Monocropping GMO's using petroleum based fertilizer and pesticides, Maintained with heavy equipment." In that sense, it is in agribiz' best interests the reduce the Soil to a sterile medium. You couldn't create a more impressive carbon footprint If you tried. Or a more dubious product. However, lest we forget, it is all about profit, Not health, either our own or that of the Earth. scyth

damoc | 08-08-2009 01:57 PM
Re: Urban Farming another idea for th OP try some unusual plants or crops for example i am getting a good crop of black berries, prickly pear fruit and acorns this year.all of which are growing wild or semi wild i planted the blackberries on an island in the middle of the pond and the cactus i give a little extra water to increase the flowering and fruiting. if this farm is about survival in hard times thinking outside the box could pay dividends. even now cactus pads and fruits are sold in my local market probably imported from mexico even though they are easy to grow here and the fruit is very tasty

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 02:06 PM
Re: Urban Farming Here's another bookmarked link I have: The Living Garden : a Bio-intensive Approach to Urban Agriculture in Ethiopia Urban agriculture is becoming a real movement in some areas that need it the worst. Cuba is providing most of their own food this way. Quote:
The popular gardens range in size from a few square meters to three hectares. Larger plots of land are often subdivided into smaller individual gardens. Garden sites are usually vacant or abandoned plots located in the same neighborhood if not next door to the gardeners' household. Land for the gardens is obtained through the local government body (the Poder Popular) at no cost, as long as it is used for cultivation. Participation in the popular gardens range from one to seventy people per garden site. The majority of gardeners are men, although women and children also participate. Popular gardens are usually organized around a household, but it is not uncommon to find arrangements in which more than one household shares or subdivides a garden site. A wide selection of produce is cultivated, depending (on family needs, market availability, and suitability with the soil and locality. In addition to vegetable and fruit cultivation, some popular gardens also cultivate spices and plants used for medicinal purposes.
I believe the most impressive thing about this new wave of farming is how empowering it is for the people who get involved. They realize they no longer have to be at the mercy of the "system." With determination and a little training, just about ANYone can grow food.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 02:07 PM
Re: Urban Farming No-i own my own factory. I can produce 2,100,000 pounds of wheat 1,200,000 pounds legumes 1,500,000 pounds oilseeds By myself. Take away ferts and chemicals-that number is cut in half-minimum. Want everyone to go back to the land-what about the other jobs that need doin?

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 02:21 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by scyth (Post 1858503) Hmmm...... My wife worked a lot with Alan Chadwick when he was in Santa Cruz. Meanwhile, I was a Ruth Stout fan (still am). As a younger man I worked both family operations and larger, "commercial" operations. In the early eighties, teamed up with another individual And started a neighborhood urban garden in SE Portland, Oregon Which was a fantastic success. So I'll put it bluntly. If we don't get out of the oil and military-industrial complex based Agricultural applications - including the present GMO fad - We are truly hosed. The present agribiz paradigm can be described as "Monocropping GMO's using petroleum based fertilizer and pesticides, Maintained with heavy equipment." In that sense, it is in agribiz' best interests the reduce the Soil to a sterile medium. You couldn't create a more impressive carbon footprint If you tried. Or a more dubious product. However, lest we forget, it is all about profit, Not health, either our own or that of the Earth. scyth
Wow... I am jealous of your wife!! The methods I am using to develop my own land include quite a bit taken from both Chadwick & Stout's work. I'm sheet mulching bed by bed right now with over 12" of amendments in order to transform the entire garden areas for next year. I'm putting in woody & herbaceous perennials as I go to get some of the companion plants established this fall. It's a LOT of work, but it is so great watching it come together. My swallowtail population is up as is the variety of bird species. We've introduced beneficial insects and our lady bug and praying mantis populations are way up!

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 02:25 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by damoc (Post 1858509) another idea for th OP try some unusual plants or crops for example i am getting a good crop of black berries, prickly pear fruit and acorns this year.all of which are growing wild or semi wild i planted the blackberries on an island in the middle of the pond and the cactus i give a little extra water to increase the flowering and fruiting. if this farm is about survival in hard times thinking outside the box could pay dividends. even now cactus pads and fruits are sold in my local market probably imported from mexico even though they are easy to grow here and the fruit is very tasty
There is a fabulous book called Perennial Vegetables by Eric Toensmeier that you can fin on Amazon Amazon There are quite a few things that can be planted in all zones, some of which other people would never know can be eaten. I'm including as many as I can in my own garden as "survival food."

keehah | 08-08-2009 02:28 PM
Re: Urban Farming With some changes... I'm building a doghouse-guess i'm carpenting. I'm fixing a leaky faucet-guess i'm plumbing I'm welding two pieces of metal-guess i'm welding I'm growing some vegtables and have a chicken-guess i'm farming This is my first summer with a real vegetable garden, and with good water the drought has been great for growing after a slow start. Reaching out and eating the berries and plums on the old trees and I'm working on the place. I don't have time, nor see payback in nutrition or cost to preserving harvest (other than a good freezer) in the next few years. In the interest of keeping things simple and easy, perhaps a move to summer yard browsing (less time in the kitchen, and picking and preparing does not seem a chore). Agri-business to focus on processed and preserved, till needed by these urbanites the seasons their gardens are not producing. I wonder if more greens in summer, more meat in winter will work better with evolved constitutions as well?

damoc | 08-08-2009 02:29 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858530) No-i own my own factory. I can produce 2,100,000 pounds of wheat 1,200,000 pounds legumes 1,500,000 pounds oilseeds By myself. Take away ferts and chemicals-that number is cut in half-minimum. Want everyone to go back to the land-what about the other jobs that need doin?
ultimately people may not have a choice about whether they go back to the land unless you believe oil is honestly a limitless supply? i looked up on your potash and there are alternate sources eg my chicken example chicken fertaliser is 1.85 % potash very high.integrating a chicken flock which can survive on bugs and forage could be used to fertalise and prepare your soil and bug controll. so maybee you do not produce 2000000 pounds of wheat and have to ship them hundreds of miles maybee you only produce 1500000 pound but have eggs and meat to sell more locally? i know you are likely to big to try something on that scale but that is the concept and it does work and the sooner you start developing sustainable farming techniques the better of you will be how many acres can you work on your own without fuel and chemicals ? what is your plan for energy descent do you have a plan? or are you happy to believe that you will always have available cheap energy and chems? im sure what and how you do what you do is profitable but it is not sustainable.

Jimfrancisco | 08-08-2009 02:33 PM
Re: Urban Farming No, you work in your own factory, and you are just as vulnerable as anyone else if and when the crash comes. Say tomorrow, you trip under a tractor and your leg gets mangled - who's going to manage it for you then?

StackerKen | 08-08-2009 02:43 PM
Re: Urban Farming Might be slightly of topic here but I live in the central valley of ca.(many orchards and farms). I am impressed by the hmong farmers they farm Many acres By Hand. not sure if they use pesticides I Dont really know much about them But I see them in the fields from morning to night http://www.immigrantfarming.org/succ...es/yeng525.jpg Now thats real Farming

Golddust | 08-08-2009 02:43 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858491) And dont play funny logistacal numbers b.s with me. Your manure and compost dont put back what is taken out.
Sorry to say..... Bull Hockey.....:36_1_30: That and rotation of what you grow in the same plots will do fine thank you what one takes out of the soil the other puts in... Just saying.... IMHO :yes: :bear_thumb:

keehah | 08-08-2009 02:47 PM
Re: Urban Farming In the long run it will come down to who is willing to pay most for the potash (etc.), and how others learn to do without.

Golddust | 08-08-2009 03:02 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by keehah (Post 1858562) In the long run it will come down to who is willing to pay most for the potash (etc.), and how others learn to do without.
Chicken and other manures will do nicely thank you!!! Especially chicken hocky that is a great Fertillizer. What Is Manure Worth Compared to Commercial Fertilizer? Manure Composition Nitrogen in Manure Phosphorus and Potassium in Manure Micronutrients in Manure Organic Matter Manure As a Plant Fertilizer Additional Links http://pubwiki.extension.org/mediawi...o_wiki_200.jpg <center>Livestock and Poultry Environmental Learning Center: All articles about: Manure Value and Economics </center> <script type="text/javascript"> if (window.showTocToggle) { var tocShowText = "show"; var tocHideText = "hide"; showTocToggle(); } </script> What Is Manure Worth Compared to Commercial Fertilizer? Animal manure is considered an agricultural commodity that can be utilized as a fertilizer source for pastureland, cropland and hay production. Manure is recognized as an excellent source of the plant nutrients nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P) and potassium (K). In addition, manure returns organic matter and other nutrients such as calcium, magnesium and sulfur to the soil, building soil fertility and quality. Any financial valuation of manure would be dependent on the market value of the N, P, K, and other plant nutrients that the manure is replacing, organic matter as a soil amendment, and the nutrient needs of the crops and fields receiving the litter. The nutrient content of manure will vary depending on animal type and diet, type and amount of bedding, manure moisture content, and storage method. For more see the Clemson University publication Averaged livestock and poultry manure characteristics. Buyers and sellers should have a lab analysis to determine moisture and nutrient concentration of the manure. Generally speaking, liquid manures will contain a lower nutrient content than solid manures, due to the dilution effect. Assuming all nutrients are needed by the crop, higher manure nutrient content corresponds to higher manure value. Higher values help to offset transportation and handling costs. http://pubwiki.extension.org/mediawi...d_by_truck.jpg Manure Composition Nitrogen in Manure Nitrogen in manure is found in the organic and inorganic forms. The organic form (slow release) slowly mineralizes providing plant-available N, while inorganic forms (fast release) consist primarily of NH4-N and are immediately plant available. However, inorganic forms are also susceptible to loss through ammonia volatilization during storage and field application. Promptly incorporating the manure into the soil can reduce these N losses. Due to the slow release organic form and potential losses of the inorganic form, not all of the N is available to the crops during the year of application. Nitrogen that is expected to be available to the plant has value as a fertilizer. The N which is lost to the environment or which is not available to the crop in the year it is needed or subsequent years does not have value. The guide “Fertilizer Nutrients in Animal Manure” provides information on the amount of N expected to be available in the 1st year and subsequent years from various manure sources: Phosphorus and Potassium in Manure Phosphorus and Potassium in manure are mostly present in the inorganic form. This means that P and K are similar to commercial fertilizer in that they are readily available for plant uptake. Most nutrient management plans are based on a P-Index or P-threshold which may limit manure application on some fields. Therefore, the value of these nutrients is based on crop nutrient needs as determined by a soil test and yield goal. Micronutrients in Manure Other nutrients such as calcium (Ca), magnesium (Mg) and sulfur (S) may be found in manure and are beneficial to the soil if a deficiency exists. Both Ca and Mg create an added value by producing a liming effect when added to the soil. Organic Matter Organic matter, primarily undigested feed and bacteria in the feces, increases infiltration of water, increases water holding capacity, enhances retention of nutrients, reduces wind and water erosion and promotes the growth of beneficial organisms. Although the value of organic matter is hard to quantify, higher quality soils are associated with increased yields and higher economic returns. Manure As a Plant Fertilizer Because manure is not a balanced fertilizer, some plant nutrient needs may be met while other nutrients may be under- or over-supplied. Any nutrient that is undersupplied by a manure application could incur a subsequent fertilizer application cost which would, in effect, lower the net value of the manure. Any nutrient that is oversupplied by a manure application would not have immediate value because it was not needed by the crop. Additional Links Oklahoma Soil Test Interpretation and Fertilizer Decision Support Program including animal manure value calculator Oklahoma Poultry Litter Value Calculator Alabama Nutrient Contents of Fertilizer Materials Manure Value Calculator spreadsheet by University of Minnesota Authors: Josh B. Payne, Oklahoma State University and John Lawrence, Iowa State University Reviewers: Ray Massey, University of Missouri and Kelsi Bracmort, NRCS <!-- Pre-expand include size: 2276 bytes Post-expand include size: 456 bytes Template argument size: 418 bytes Maximum: 2097152 bytes --> More information financial crisis and farms, animal manure management, manure economics, Financial Crisis :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

megacaptain | 08-08-2009 03:10 PM
Re: Urban Farming Liebig lied big, read the works of Sir Albert Howard and Newman Turner to get a real perspective on actual farming the way that it should be done.

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 03:15 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by megacaptain (Post 1858594) Liebig Lied Big
That would make a fabulous bumper sticker.

keehah | 08-08-2009 03:16 PM
Re: Urban Farming Thanks. Started... http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm...dSH/SHtoc.html Sir Albert Howard C.I.E., M.A. Part III The Problem of Manuring Quote:
Origins and Scope of the Problem The great problem before agriculture the world over is how best to maintain in health and efficiency the huge human population which has resulted from the Industrial Revolution. As has already been pointed out, this development is based on the transfer of food from the regions which produce it to the manufacturing centres which consume it and which make no attempt to return their wastes to the land. This amounts to a perpetual subsidy paid by agriculture to industry and has resulted in the impoverishment of large areas of the earth's surface. A form of unconscious banditry has been in operation: the property of generations to come, in the shape of soil fertility, has been used not to benefit the human race as a whole, but to enrich a dishonest present. Such a system cannot last: the career of the prodigal must come to an end: a new civilization will have to be created, in which the various reserves in the earth's crust are regarded as a sacred trust and the food needed is obtained not by depleting the soil's capital, but by increasing the efficiency of the earth's green carpet. This involves the solution of the problem of manuring.

scyth | 08-08-2009 03:33 PM
Re: Urban Farming Canuckfarmer - How many tons of fertilizer, and how many gallons of diesel for 2008? And how many gallons of pesticides? I'm sure you know these figures down to a gnat's ass. After all, it is a "factory." scyth

Golddust | 08-08-2009 03:36 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by keehah (Post 1858599) Thanks. Started... http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm...dSH/SHtoc.html Sir Albert Howard C.I.E., M.A. Part III The Problem of Manuring
Good read. The author is a hoot.. Kind of person, if you ask him for the time, first he will build a swiss watch then tell you the time.. :coolbeer:

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Bloody Bill | 08-08-2009 03:42 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858317) I built a doghouse-guess i'm a carpenter. I fixed a leaky faucet-guess i'm a plumber I welded two pieces of metal-guess i'm a welder I grow some vegtables and have a chicken-guess i'm a farmer You people are hobbyists not farmers. All hat and no cow-common phrase
The bottom line is that you do not need a license to be a farmer. Grow tomatoes, find a store.

keehah | 08-08-2009 03:47 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody Bill (Post 1858628) The bottom line is that you do not need a license to be a farmer. Grow tomatoes, find a store.
Not for much longer. Worse, Codex Alimentarius is about 'safety' not nutrition.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 03:48 PM
Re: Urban Farming 155 metric tons or 341775 pounds. 4-5 thousand gallons of diesel. Herbicides- not enough gallons worth mentioning. Pesticides-refuse to use them-killing plants is different than killing insects,i dont let my kids use bug spray even. Dont get me wrong,my system is less sustainable and ultimately we are screwed-thats why i'm here. Of course peak-oil is not a concept most farmers grasp,let alone the inherint flaws of frn's.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 03:52 PM
Re: Urban Farming And just because it seems like i'm attacking you people,i'm only defending what i believe as a truth-i do think its great your working towards self-sufficiency.

Jimfrancisco | 08-08-2009 04:09 PM
Re: Urban Farming Your last statement rings true. There are some people who have a way with words, and can persuade thousands. Unfortunately, you are not one of them.

Bloody Bill | 08-08-2009 04:23 PM
Re: Urban Farming 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpieFairy (Post 1858497) That's exactly why I consider the smaller and medium-sized farms a much more valid form of farming. Today's megafarms have gotten away from understanding the land and the soil. That will also be their downfall.
good stuff... Attachment 77153

scyth | 08-08-2009 04:44 PM
Re: Urban Farming Canuckfarmer - We, the people, are in the process of building Some kind of coalition here, not that we even know What it will turn out to be. And, yeah, you can feel it too. As you said "That's why I'm here." As I said, I've been on both sides of the farming fence, And am not here to demonize you. As for the evil of Archer Midland Daniels, absolutely. Once again - to all - This is about coalition. Canuckfarmer is showing a hell of a lots of guts And willingness to learn Just being here. scyth

Russkie | 08-08-2009 04:44 PM
Re: Urban Farming The first apartment I lived in in Russia had a balcony set up to house chickens. So I know it is possible to have a chicken coop in a few sqare feet and get some eggs.

Russkie | 08-08-2009 04:48 PM
Re: Urban Farming 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody Bill (Post 1858679) good stuff... Attachment 77153
Who's the "MF" (Melon Farmer) who took that picture???

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 04:56 PM
Re: Urban Farming The funny part about all this is we will all be in the same prison camp together argueing whether maggots have a higher protein value than crickets.

keehah | 08-08-2009 05:04 PM
Re: Urban Farming Maggots are better of course. Fewer 'middle-bugs' to skim off the fat. :bear_tongue:

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 05:13 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by Golddust (Post 1858618) Good read. The author is a hoot.. Kind of person, if you ask him for the time, first he will build a swiss watch then tell you the time.. :coolbeer:
That's a great line!

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 05:17 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by scyth (Post 1858704) Canuckfarmer - We, the people, are in the process of building Some kind of coalition here, not that we even know What it will turn out to be. And, yeah, you can feel it too. As you said "That's why I'm here." As I said, I've been on both sides of the farming fence, And am not here to demonize you. As for the evil of Archer Midland Daniels, absolutely. Once again - to all - This is about coalition. Canuckfarmer is showing a hell of a lots of guts And willingness to learn Just being here. scyth
If that is the case, then CF might consider not calling people liars or wasting time arguing semantics about who is or who isn't qualified to call themselves a farmer. There's precious little time to discuss the important issues without wasting time arguing about BS.

scyth | 08-08-2009 05:38 PM
Re: Urban Farming Magpiefairy - Agreed. However, the activity of "piling on" someone With a different ethos is equally repugnant to me. We all learn, or don't. Hang together, or hang alone, To quote Mr. Patrick Henry. You Tube
You Tube
scyth

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 05:51 PM
Re: Urban Farming I promise to act nicer if you promise to act smarter- Magpie,if you dont want to show me the respect of letting me keep my tradesman name of farmer.....fine,four oclock mornings,tweleve oclock nights,broken bones,chemical sickness,telling the wife were broke for years because of hailstorms and drought,missing every single social event till snow flies,begging bankers for extenstions on already over extended loans,all for producing an underpriced/underappreciated product...great,you deserve the title to.

Saoirse | 08-08-2009 05:52 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858777) I promise to act nicer if you promise to act smarter- Magpie,if you dont want to show me the respect of letting me keep my tradesman name of farmer.....fine,four oclock mornings,tweleve oclock nights,broken bones,chemical sickness,telling the wife were broke for years because of hailstorms and drought,missing every single social event till snow flies,begging bankers for extenstions on already over extended loans,all for producing an underpriced/underappreciated product...great,you deserve the title to.
What does ANY of this have to do with the initial purpose of this thread?

keehah | 08-08-2009 05:55 PM
Re: Urban Farming Write a few papers, go to the trade shows and get a few friends to recommend you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_agrologist

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 05:59 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by scyth (Post 1858769) Magpiefairy - Agreed. However, the activity of "piling on" someone With a different ethos is equally repugnant to me. We all learn, or don't. Hang together, or hang alone, To quote Mr. Patrick Henry. scyth
As a matter of their own survival, some folks might want to learn how to not to make themselves targets of "piling on." You are correct, however, as was Mr. Henry.... and all those hippies in the video. :biggrin::ok: Which brings me to another point. CF asked what about the other jobs that need to be done and who will do them if everyone gets "back to the land?" Well, some of us will work harder and grow enough to share, sell or barter with our doctors and dentists and the bakers and candlestick makers. There will ALWAYS be those who choose specialty jobs and that, my friends, is what make a village or a community. No man is an island and no matter how self-sufficient we are individually, we can never be as self-sufficient on our own as a group can be where there are different people doing different jobs. The times they are a-changin' and we can either change with it or die trying to maintain something that can't sustain itself. Our currant system cannot continue to sustain itself the way it's going. I have no intention of arguing the protein content of maggots vs crickets in some FEMA camp somewhere, so I'm busy learning and teaching what I learn about a sustainable way of living in hopes that it never gets to that. :9536:

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 06:12 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858777) I promise to act nicer if you promise to act smarter- Magpie,if you dont want to show me the respect of letting me keep my tradesman name of farmer.....fine,four oclock mornings,tweleve oclock nights,broken bones,chemical sickness,telling the wife were broke for years because of hailstorms and drought,missing every single social event till snow flies,begging bankers for extenstions on already over extended loans,all for producing an underpriced/underappreciated product...great,you deserve the title to.
No one used the title "farmer" with the intent of disrespect to you. YOU made this personal. YOU made your choices to farm the way you do. That does not have anything to do with other people being farmers or how they choose to farm. The title "farmer" does not come with quantitative measurements for only those who can work a megafarm and produce 2 million lbs plus of a mono-crop. Your definition is narrow and of your own contrivance. I'm all for discussing any farming method you want as long as you can try to realize there isn't just one way to do anything. We all learn something from even the most unlikely sources sometimes.

Bloody Bill | 08-08-2009 06:22 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by Russkie (Post 1858709) Who's the "MF" (Melon Farmer) who took that picture???
That's from my backyard.

scyth | 08-08-2009 06:25 PM
Re: Urban Farming All - "No man is an island, entire of itself every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls it tolls for thee." -- John Donne Canuckfarmer - Get a clue. We all bust our butts. We all are on the thin edge of nowhere In terms of survival. Doesn't matter if we are city mice or country mice. I'm asking you to listen and not preach. You have admitted that your way of life is not sustainable. This entire board has admitted that our present way of life is not Sustainable. So, we are all students Of a totally unpredictable future. So - and I am not a moderator here - Stop whining and get on with possible solutions. Like no till dryland wheat in Eastern Washington, for example. scyth

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 06:41 PM
Re: Urban Farming No-you made this personal. 99% of the food produced comes from FARMERS-not backyard,chicken,garden producing hacks,who only contribute a filthy fraction of what is needed to keep a society up and running.Are busness is farming and thats what we do-give you the cheapeast easiest nutritution ever in the history of the world. You tree thumping,global warming environmentilist should step aside and let the adults take care of things-dont you dare lump global finance into this-there is a mathematical principle of food production and distribution i doubt many women can comprehend. Let us do are jobs-and you do yours-you still havent told me what that is.Did you even here of the word potassium before today?Look up salt while your at it. The problems that face society today will not be solved by weak minded people,take an i.q test and take a seat at the back of the bus-you are apart of the problem.

CDUBS | 08-08-2009 06:52 PM
Re: Urban Farming I recently planted 10 fruit trees along the side of our yard...and some vegetables. Im trying to find some more area here to plant more stuff...the backyard landscaping is really nice but not sure if I want to tear it out yet...hmm...

damoc | 08-08-2009 07:07 PM
Re: Urban Farming oh bugger ive nevr done this before but IBTL thanks scyth for the mediation

scyth | 08-08-2009 07:13 PM
Re: Urban Farming Canuckfarmer - "No-you made this personal." Untrue. You are apparently on a mechanized mass-farming vendetta. I Offered you The option of peaceful discussion of options. Not only did you refuse, But you have decided to shit all over those who would Try to have a discussion. "99% of the food produced comes from FARMERS-not backyard,chicken,garden producing hacks,who only contribute a filthy fraction of what is needed to keep a society up and running.Are busness is farming and thats what we do-give you the cheapeast easiest nutritution ever in the history of the world." Tell that to the third world. You are obviously well esconced within The first world of American agribiz. Archer Midland Daniels, anyone? "You tree thumping,global warming environmentilist should step aside and let the adults take care of things-dont you dare lump global finance into this-there is a mathematical principle of food production and distribution i doubt many women can comprehend." Women? You lost me there, bubba. Your version of "adults" is the driving Force behind exactly how ****ed we are now and into the foreseeable Future. In other words, my son, his wife, and my first grandchild. "Let us do are jobs-and you do yours-you still havent told me what that is.Did you even here of the word potassium before today?Look up salt while your at it." About 50 years ago, when I was eight years old. Is this a problem? "The problems that face society today will not be solved by weak minded people,take an i.q test and take a seat at the back of the bus-you are apart of the problem." The Earth is driving that bus. The worldwide military industrial complex seem absolutely comitted to driving that bus over the cliff. We are, to the best of our abilities, keeping the world bus from going over the cliff. You just haven't caught up with that fact. I am glad you finally came forth with your real opinions, but I cannot support them. I suggest you take a real serious second look at your version Of farming, and how it relates to the health and continuity Of what we know and love as our Earth. scyth

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 07:37 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858824) No-you made this personal. 99% of the food produced comes from FARMERS-not backyard,chicken,garden producing hacks,who only contribute a filthy fraction of what is needed to keep a society up and running.Are busness is farming and thats what we do-give you the cheapeast easiest nutritution ever in the history of the world. You tree thumping,global warming environmentilist should step aside and let the adults take care of things-dont you dare lump global finance into this-there is a mathematical principle of food production and distribution i doubt many women can comprehend. Let us do are jobs-and you do yours-you still havent told me what that is.Did you even here of the word potassium before today?Look up salt while your at it. The problems that face society today will not be solved by weak minded people,take an i.q test and take a seat at the back of the bus-you are apart of the problem.
I wouldn't be telling others to take an IQ test if I couldn't spell, but that's just me. Other people in this thread have given you an "out" and told you that we are willing to discuss farming in a civil manner. We've posted links and information from recognized experts in the field of sustainable farming and yet.... you continue to hurl insult after insult while doing your darnedest to make sure this discussion will never bear fruit. At the same time you haven't contributed a solitary scrap of usable information to this subject or anything that states why your way is better. In fact, you are contradicting yourself here because you have already admitted that your way is NOT sustainable. You want people who have been using a PROVEN SUSTAINABLE way of farming to shut up and get out of your way? Sorry, but your demands are absolutely ridiculous. I *did* reply to you about my livelihood and yes, I *do* know what potassium is. Women in many other cultures traditionally were the ones who have done most of the farming while the men either hunted or sat on their azz. If you had taken the time to get to know the world you live in a little better, you would know this. Go away. You were given a chance to join in and be a part of the discussion, but you are incapable of laying down your hostilities in order to do so. It's become apparent that the only reason you are here is to derail this thread.

goldsilverman | 08-08-2009 07:41 PM
Re: Urban Farming The jap beetles are horrible here, they love the grape, rubarb, and cherry leaves. If I could recommend an easy fruit to grow it would be pears (at least around here) they tolerate wet feet better and don't have many disease or pest problems. There is a good publication called "the grass farmer" google it if you're interested in grazing animals.

Tn...Andy | 08-08-2009 07:45 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858824) No-you made this personal. 99% of the food produced comes from FARMERS-not backyard,chicken,garden producing hacks,who only contribute a filthy fraction of what is needed to keep a society up and running.Are busness is farming and thats what we do-give you the cheapeast easiest nutritution ever in the history of the world. You tree thumping,global warming environmentilist should step aside and let the adults take care of things-dont you dare lump global finance into this-there is a mathematical principle of food production and distribution i doubt many women can comprehend. Let us do are jobs-and you do yours-you still havent told me what that is.Did you even here of the word potassium before today?Look up salt while your at it. The problems that face society today will not be solved by weak minded people,take an i.q test and take a seat at the back of the bus-you are apart of the problem.
Personally, I find the above quite insulting. I think the farmer of the future is going to be a LOT smaller, WAY more local and using many of the methods of the past. The folks trying it now are simply the forerunners of what is to come when diesel fuel is 20 bucks/gal and factory farms no longer are economically sustainable. And please report back when diesel fuel IS 20 bucks/gallon......and remember, the higher the horse, the farther the fall. Edit: and now added you to "ignore"....you've gone off the deep end with this rant, and you have the distinction of being only the second person I've ever put on ignore ( From India is the other )

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 07:48 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by goldsilverman (Post 1858896) The jap beetles are horrible here, they love the grape, rubarb, and cherry leaves. If I could recommend an easy fruit to grow it would be pears (at least around here) they tolerate wet feet better and don't have many disease or pest problems. There is a good publication called "the grass farmer" google it if you're interested in grazing animals.
Have you tried inoculating your yard with milky spore?? I just got a batch and will be doing mine this week. I'll have to wait until next year to see the results, but I've heard that it is an amazing difference.

Tn...Andy | 08-08-2009 07:58 PM
Re: Urban Farming The problem with milky spore is it takes a WIDE area and lot of spore to make it effective. When the beetle first came thru this area in the 70's so bad, the local USDA extension ordered barrels of the stuff and sold it at cost......that put a real crimp in the beetle and we basically have had little problem with it since. It's a one time application, as the spore then stays in the ground, reproduces itself as it kill the beetle in the grub stage.....but if you're the only one putting it out, don't expect too much from it, since the beetle will fly in off neighboring, untreated property for a long time until what you put out finally spreads that way.

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MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 08:18 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1858915) The problem with milky spore is it takes a WIDE area and lot of spore to make it effective. When the beetle first came thru this area in the 70's so bad, the local USDA extension ordered barrels of the stuff and sold it at cost......that put a real crimp in the beetle and we basically have had little problem with it since. It's a one time application, as the spore then stays in the ground, reproduces itself as it kill the beetle in the grub stage.....but if you're the only one putting it out, don't expect too much from it, since the beetle will fly in off neighboring, untreated property for a long time until what you put out finally spreads that way.
Thanks for that info, Andy. I ordered enough to do most of the 7 acres here. They are not a huge problem, but they do get the berries, grapes and a lot of ornamentals. I have a very sweet situation hereon one side is a little family from the Ukraine who are raising chickens and ducks & working to cut down on their bugs, too. Then there is a grove of pines between us and the church on the other side, pines across the street & behind us is an empty pasture. We have a little hollow spot here that dips into a low spot in the middle of the property where most of the garden resides. IOW, when I treat for pests here, I get some, but not a lot of influx from outside areas afterward. That's why I'm working so hard to convert this to a permaculture project - it's just a great spot for it. I'll be keeping notes to see if it helps. I should have done population estimates this year, but I didn't have time to set up traps. Oh, well... :biggrin:

Saoirse | 08-08-2009 08:32 PM
Re: Urban Farming Here's an interesting site: http://urbanhomestead.org/journal/ Little Homestead in the City

Jimfrancisco | 08-08-2009 08:37 PM
Re: Urban Farming YOU ARE NOT FARMER DAMMIT DID YOU SAY YOU GREW SOMETIN? *someone points out that you can live organic on 1/10 of an acre* *Head explodes*.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 08:44 PM
Re: Urban Farming HA HA HA-told you i wouldnt laugh to much. Even the great tn and a produces half of what he needs while i feed 10,000 people. But you all tell me how it works. I got a shiny 65 nickel that your a secratary or a grade one teacher magpie. Syth-i appreciate the outs but i refuse to bow to stupidity-it must be challenged with extreme prejudice. Have fun figuring on how to feed the last half of yourselfs,i will easily feed another 2500 souls next year on this big planet that losses 10,000 a day. But -your the farmers,the salt of the earth. Me-i'm the epitamy of what your forefathers were failures at-farming TRUTH HURTS EH?

scholarcoon | 08-08-2009 08:54 PM
Re: Urban Farming Ha ha. Canuck you're a joke. You feed the world but you can't feed yourself. How much of your own crops do you personally eat? I bet it's none- because the "food" you grow is inedible until it's processed in a factory somewhere. I'm living and working on a farm that produces 90% of the food we eat (minus things like salt and oil) plus we sell organic sorghum syrup and honey. I'm waiting for the ground to dry up so I can plant cover crop out in the wheat fields we just harvested...not that you know anything about cover cropping. I'll ask again - how much of your own food do you grow?

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 08:55 PM
Re: Urban Farming Bye the way,winning a debate is like sticking a pig. It walks around for a while grunting like nothings wrong,then it just shuts up and dies. But maybe only a farmer would know that.

keehah | 08-08-2009 08:57 PM
Re: Urban Farming Eating local produce, meat called vital Fri, August 7, 2009 http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Loc...86926-sun.html Quote:
"For me and a lot of my classmates, the environment is an important thing for a lot of young farmers," Skinner, a University of Guelph graduate student, said yesterday. "If we want to continue to feed people, we have to take care of Mother Nature." Skinner is studying in the department of food, agriculture and resource economics... But if enough people demanded local products be properly labelled, governments and grocery stores would come around, he said. "For grocery chains, the consumer needs to be the change. The urban customer has a lot more weight than the farmer." Getting consumers to buy local is just one strategy pork producers are looking to as their industry, some say, teeters on the verge of collapse. Some producers say the industry needs $800 million from the federal government

scyth | 08-08-2009 09:02 PM
Re: Urban Farming Canuckfarmer - "Bye the way,winning a debate is like sticking a pig. It walks around for a while grunting like nothings wrong,then it just shuts up and dies. But maybe only a farmer would know that. Just like your personal version of "farming." But only the commodities brokers would know that. And, by the way, Here, you are done and finished. scyth

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 09:33 PM
Re: Urban Farming Funny enough-i was looking at our old scythe tools in the barn the other day and i thought to myself"man i'm glad i'm not a small boned underdeveloped city kid in case i have to swing this thing all day,some day". Is that ironic or just plain funny?

damoc | 08-08-2009 09:40 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858962) HA HA HA-told you i wouldnt laugh to much. Even the great tn and a produces half of what he needs while i feed 10,000 people. But you all tell me how it works. I got a shiny 65 nickel that your a secratary or a grade one teacher magpie. Syth-i appreciate the outs but i refuse to bow to stupidity-it must be challenged with extreme prejudice. Have fun figuring on how to feed the last half of yourselfs,i will easily feed another 2500 souls next year on this big planet that losses 10,000 a day.But -your the farmers,the salt of the earth. Me-i'm the epitamy of what your forefathers were failures at-farming TRUTH HURTS EH?
sorry mate you aint going to feed many when the electricity is out and the fuel no longer flows. FACT that is where sustainable ag comes in that is where farming in your back yard comes in. and that is what this thread is supposed to be about. im a little insulted that you did not seem to answer any of my queries or answers to your game? but would rather argue with MF over BS inapplicable to this thread and how many work to feed you and your farming machine? miners,engineers,truckers mechanics,polaticians chemists factory workers etc etc what can you produce without them that is the question?

CANUCKFARMER | 08-08-2009 10:09 PM
Re: Urban Farming Sorry Damoc for not addressing earlier. My fight was with the way the term farmer was flipitantly thrown around. Something that many lost sight of.No appology And for a second time i'm sorry the thread was hijacked. Your right when the end game comes-i'm done,thats why im here to. And trust me i have way more to give than to get.

damoc | 08-08-2009 10:42 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1859049) Sorry Damoc for not addressing earlier. My fight was with the way the term farmer was flipitantly thrown around. Something that many lost sight of.No appology And for a second time i'm sorry the thread was hijacked. Your right when the end game comes-i'm done,thats why im here to. And trust me i have way more to give than to get.
there is nothing in a name you should feel happy that somebody wishes to call themselves a farmer.im a beekeeper and run about 1000 colonies and that is small comapred to most US beekeepers i have lots of other people who only run 1 or 2 colonies i am flattered that they want to call themselves beekeepers and pick my brain a little but we are all beekeepers and i think beekeepers are also farmers especially since i plant many plants and crops especially for my bees and chickens and rabbits. part time employment does not make one less of a farmer or perhaps you could take on the term idustrial agriculturalist if that makes you feel bigger,better and more important than the rest of us? or perhaps i could phrase it like this what can you help us hobby farmers with? and honestly i think the future of farming will develop from a "hobby farmer" much like modern beekeeping developed from a hobby beekeeper do a search for langstroth (i think i spelled that right) if it interests you

Saoirse | 08-08-2009 10:44 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1859049) And for a second time i'm sorry the thread was hijacked.
Actions speak louder than words. If you are really sorry (two times over, supposedly), then STOP POSTING in this thread.

DHawk | 08-08-2009 11:40 PM
Re: Urban Farming Cotten seed gin compost from a nearby gin has been the best and latest addition to my small farm. garden- about 40 x 60. raised beds- 3, 8x12 I will begin construction on new hoop-house for winter veggies in a few days. Still getting cantelop and melons and okra...uummmm! and peppers and peas and a few strawberries. BONUS TIP. Last year i fertiized my 2 plum trees. WOW! what a difference. Picked over 5 5gal buckets full. Since then I have fertiized all trees planted in last few years which is something i have never done. The best way is to drive an old shovel handle or whatever about1 18" into ground around dripline of tree then pour in 131313.

MagpieFairy | 08-08-2009 11:41 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858962) HA HA HA-told you i wouldnt laugh to much. Even the great tn and a produces half of what he needs while i feed 10,000 people. But you all tell me how it works. I got a shiny 65 nickel that your a secratary or a grade one teacher magpie. Syth-i appreciate the outs but i refuse to bow to stupidity-it must be challenged with extreme prejudice. Have fun figuring on how to feed the last half of yourselfs,i will easily feed another 2500 souls next year on this big planet that losses 10,000 a day. But -your the farmers,the salt of the earth. Me-i'm the epitamy of what your forefathers were failures at-farming TRUTH HURTS EH?
No one here has disputed the tonnage of crops you claim to have grown or how many people you feed, though in reality, the people you claim to feed aren't eating just wheat, oil and soybeans. No one has questioned your status as "farmer." In fact, what we're discussing IS a form of farming by every definition; it's just different than what you do. That doesn't mean there is anything intrinsically wrong with your methods or opposed to you personally... it's just what we are doing and what others are doing to make sure we aren't left hungry when or if big agriculture fails. You know what CF? We've answered your questions, how about you answer some of ours? Did you grow your own personal garden in addition to your mono-crops to sell? Do you preserve your own foods? How much do you purchase from the local grocery to feed your family? You know what I grew this year? Let me get you a list: corn - 2 types, field and sweet beans - 4 types, 2 varieties of snap, butter beans, yellow wax broccoli cauliflower brussel's sprouts cabbage - green and purple strawberries blackberries blueberries raspberries apples - 3 varieties and 2 more planted that aren't producing yet plums - 3 varieties cherries - 3 varieties pears - 3 varieties figs - 2 varieties chard lettuce - 3 varieties okra - 2 varieties squash - 7 different varieties onions - 3 different varieties peppers - 5 diferent bell, jalapeno, cayenne, hot & mild banana, cowhorn, and 3 or 4 others asparagus radishes - 2 different varieties cucumber - 5 different varieties tomatoes - over 300 heirloom plants of at least 5 different varieties parsley dill marjoram basil eggplant - 3 different varieties garlic chives and regular chives lemon balm mint - 4 different varieties sage - 3 different varieties cilantro savory thyme - 3 different varieties rosemary watermelon - 3 different varieties tigger melon cantaloupe mustard - 2 different varieties broccoli raab kale - 2 different varieties grapes & muscodines pecans peaches carrots rhubarb and I'm absolutely sure I'm forgetting a few.... we are getting ready to do our fall planting wich will include turnips mustard collard greens spinach broccoli cauliflower brussel's sprouts cabbage lettuce We also have a selection of medicinal herbs and plants and plants that grow wild that we "forage" each year like cress and lamb's quarters and poke. We're adding almonds, seedless grapes, elderberries, more asparagus and kiwis this fall in addition to propagating more berry plants from the existing ones we have. I'll be ading even more varieties of veggies next year and into the years beyond. I also can and dry much of our harvest. What I can't can or we can't eat, we donate to the food bank or give away to others who cannot farm themselves. My FIL ran a slaughterhouse for 35 years and we slaughter deer, hogs and beef each year for meat. We now have chickens for eggs and meat. I will soon have goats for milk & bees for honey and their ability to pollinate. *I* do all of this. Myself. This is what I do FULL TIME. Now, tell me I am not farming. This thread and this section of this web site is about being PREPARED and CAPABLE and SELF SUSTAINING, not about growing 2 thousand acres of wheat for sale. BTW, my husband is an artist who donates a certain percentage of his work each year to an organization that sells art or trades it for canned goods to supply food banks all over this nation and in other countries as they are able. We do that without expecting ANY monetary return on our donation. We have collected several tons of food this year to help feed the needy... FOR FREE. In reality, you should be praising the people here who work hard to be self-reliant. Why you feel the need to argue over a stupid job title and belittle those who have taken the effort to do for themselves is just quite beyond me. Now, if you want to discuss permaculture or the methods attached to it, please, step on up to the plate. If you want to bellygrub about how you get no respect for what you do, then look at yourself and ask WHY people are not responding to you in a more positive manner. The answer lies within yourself.

____hoot____ | 08-09-2009 12:52 AM
Re: Urban Farming Bigger Farms=Bigger Bills getting too big for a mere human to handle without loseing his cool. Damn glad myself that I am not in my cousin's shoes who still has the family farm. Life shortenned by the $ worries and the chemicals they have to handle. These people[farmers]are the most under attack by the current system, the illuminate just hates them. POT and the other potash producers have them by the short hairs too, having tripled their price and have not backed off much in the current economic downturn. You can do without potash fertilizer for one year, but not for two. Feel for you man. Me? I did without my usuall half bag of 19-19-19 this year when it more than doubled in price. Went with the old indian method of hills and buckets of mud pulled up from the bottom of the creek. Glad I haven't got more than the 80'x35' garden I try to grow. That itself is scores and scores of buckets of mud to pull up and dump.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-09-2009 02:18 AM
Re: Urban Farming Its called gardening,my dear.

scyth | 08-09-2009 02:59 AM
Re: Urban Farming Let us not be too cute. Its called living, and we all have to manage it.

keehah | 08-09-2009 03:02 AM
Re: Urban Farming Wow. I never realized before how destructive and angry Canuckfarmer is but a review of his posts quickly confirms it. Quote:
Let me guess [GIM member] and everyone else. You cant have kids cause nobody wants you or your physically f@ck up in some way and jee whiz this is your chance to lash out and try and justify your situation in an insane manner. Well guess what-dont ever watch the nature channel from here on out-because guess what you loose-your messed up and evolution wants you to die. Keep rationalizing in a rationalized brain-ouch.
_______________ Silver Lake Farms launches free urban gardening workshops Aug 7 2009 Quote:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6...e18a970b-500pi Tara Kolla of Silver Lake Farms in Los Angeles has launched a series of free workshops on urban farming. “It is my favorite thing,” Kolla says. “I get to meet the nicest people. We talk. We work. People get digging, get sweaty and they love it.”

Russkie | 08-09-2009 05:59 AM
Re: Urban Farming Geez, Canuk farmer, you sit astride just about the highest horse I've ever seen! My wife's family grows about half the food we eat, and they garden only on the weekends. There is a whole movement here in Russia where people feed themselves entirely from two acres. Check out the 'Ring of Cedars' movemnet, where families have kin-estates which are like eco-villages. It's possible, and I can't for the life of me see why you have such a bad attitude towards people trying to learn about this.

____hoot____ | 08-09-2009 08:48 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by keehah (Post 1859281) Wow. I never realized before how destructive and angry Canuckfarmer is but a review of his posts quickly confirms it. _______________ Silver Lake Farms launches free urban gardening workshops Aug 7 2009
OPPS, the picture of the ecobabe didn't come through But, just look at the looong fingernails on that phoney bitch. Forgot to mention it last night but it is part of the NWO's agenda[Agenda 21]to paint a rosy rosy rosy false picture on what really can be done with "urban farming". I remember now the commune called I think 'Findhome' in Scotland that they were pushing back in the 70s and 80s and all the huge crops they were claiming to get off wasteland with composted seaweed and crystals, hahahahahahahaha. People, you are being hosed, if you believe all the claims of these NWO slick propaganda artists. Don't want to belittle what can be done on small plots with good ground. Know that some of you are doing it, but I understand CANUCKFARMER's fustration when he feels in his bones that something just isn't right and a lot of innocent/nieve/dingy/foolish people are following a piper.

Saoirse | 08-09-2009 08:58 AM
Re: Urban Farming Growing Soil for Urban Farming I'd like to refocus this thread and start by asking about growing soil for urban farming. If anyone has any experience with this particular task, please let us know. I'd especially be interested in knowing the basics like: 1. start up costs per square foot. 2. materials required. 3. how long does it take. 4. any extras of which one should be aware. Thanks!

CANUCKFARMER | 08-09-2009 09:03 AM
Re: Urban Farming Good-job you found an old post out of hundreds. Lots of spare time kkeeah? I dont regret writing that-that was against people who were against kids for christ sakes. Dont worry i will not be bothering you people anymore. But in parting i dare you all to go to a small mid western town bar- on a rainy saturday afternoon in the summertime.Find the table full of guys with johndeere hats and pull up a chair. Then tell them what you do for a living and how you do some farming on the side in the backyard and how your pretty much just like them.Then give them some more agronomic advice on how things should be done. Dont worry-at this point the bartender will have already called the ambulance which will have the morphine you will need.

Saoirse | 08-09-2009 09:09 AM
Re: Urban Farming Growing Soil for Urban Farming I'd like to refocus this thread and start by asking about growing soil for urban farming. If anyone has any experience with this particular task, please let us know. I'd especially be interested in knowing the basics like: 1. start up costs per square foot. 2. materials required. 3. how long does it take. 4. any extras of which one should be aware. Thanks!

____hoot____ | 08-09-2009 09:54 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by Saoirse (Post 1859440) Growing Soil for Urban Farming I'd like to refocus this thread and start by asking about growing soil for urban farming. If anyone has any experience with this particular task, please let us know. I'd especially be interested in knowing the basics like: 1. start up costs per square foot. 2. materials required. 3. how long does it take. 4. any extras of which one should be aware. Thanks!
The Mayans dug ditches and each year pulled the accumulated waterweeds and mud up on the berms to grow their crops on. That system is what I do because of the location of the only spot I can put a garden on on my land. This material can be had for free with a little looking. Find black gooy stuff with no industry upstream.

____hoot____ | 08-09-2009 10:14 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1859442) Good-job you found an old post out of hundreds. Lots of spare time kkeeah? I dont regret writing that-that was against people who were against kids for christ sakes. Dont worry i will not be bothering you people anymore. But in parting i dare you all to go to a small mid western town bar- on a rainy saturday afternoon in the summertime.Find the table full of guys with johndeere hats and pull up a chair. Then tell them what you do for a living and how you do some farming on the side in the backyard and how your pretty much just like them.Then give them some more agronomic advice on how things should be done. Dont worry-at this point the bartender will have already called the ambulance which will have the morphine you will need.
I for one will thank you for all you do and your input here CANUCKFARMER. No pesticides and just a few gallons of herbicide on I'm guessing 3-4 sections of land!!! That's just awesome and sure would like to know how you do that!

MagpieFairy | 08-09-2009 12:02 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by Saoirse (Post 1859444) Growing Soil for Urban Farming I'd like to refocus this thread and start by asking about growing soil for urban farming. If anyone has any experience with this particular task, please let us know. I'd especially be interested in knowing the basics like: 1. start up costs per square foot. It depends on your project, Saoirse. The urban plot in Athens is community sponsored, so some of the money is coming from the city and the kids involved are out beating the streets for donations. What are YOUR specific needs? Do you need a truckload of compost brought in? Other soil amendments? Costs per square foot will depend largely on what the ground you're working with needs to get started and then what you'll need to accomplish goals you've set. 2. materials required. What sort of beds do you want to build? Will you till or do you want to build raised beds? Are you building tables for seniors or is your workforce young? Do you have tools for the community or will you expect them to bring their own? In fact, you've not told us exactly what you're planning, so I'm just guessing here. Is this your own private garden or are you working with others on a larger group project? 3. how long does it take. I'm not sure my own project will ever be "finished," but I have set a goal of 3 years to have my beds and infrastructure built. I plan to have my trees and large shrubs planted by then as well. 4. any extras of which one should be aware. Again, what are your plans? I can better help if you can narrow it down a bit. Thanks!
Give us some details!

keehah | 08-09-2009 12:20 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1859442) Good-job you found an old post out of hundreds. Lots of spare time kkeeah?
No, it was in the first page of your posts. Along with other posts like: Quote:
You idiots cant be serious.
And to your credit many posts about how many of the prairie's industrial farmers are going broke or being boken. My first two years of work were summers at what is now industrial pork breeding operation in Manitoba. http://manitobapork.com/hard_time_for_hog_farmers.aspx Quote:
The province has answered Manitoba hog industry pleas for financial aid with a federal-provincial Targeted Advance Payment totaling $37.3 million. That may sound like a huge bailout for so-called factory farms to those with extreme views, but to those whose livelihoods depend on hog farming, it sounds like a drop in the ocean.
WashPost: Apocalypse Later? I'm Going Local Now. Sunday, August 9, 2009

CANUCKFARMER | 08-09-2009 04:30 PM
Re: Urban Farming 5 sections-3200 acres Indusrtial herbiceds come in a very concentrated form,then mixed with large volumes of water. For example-1 liter or .25gallons of round up would be mixed with 10 gallons of water to kill every plant(minus roundup tolerant gmoplants)on one acre of land.One acre is 8.25 feet up a mile.To give you an idea of scale.Other herbicides are a little more or little less. 3 to 4 passes per year depending on how things are going-aka-disease,bugs,weeds.-this is ball park numbers. Not that anybody maybe interested in this. As far as pork producers they are living in hell right now. The sow heard is taking a nose dive-i would expect major price increases at some point.Cattle are hurting to. Magpie your right to choose goats,canada(probably all north america)imports sheep and goats for slaughter if you can believe that(i think this is a fact-it should be double checked)and there is a shortage of goats milk due to allergies in kids-thankyou vaccines. I believe the boer breed is still king of the species.I would also stick to papered purebreeds breeding stock can become INCREDIBLY valueable overnight.You would also want to look into third party age verification and all that type of paper.The laws conserning country of origin and age verification are becoming increasingly painful to farmers,it is useally to late to accomplish any of this after some unpredicatable crisis hits. example-bse DO not cheapout on fencing-they are escape artist and make sure you give them something to climb on. Are you certified organic? In our country it takes 3 years,make sure you go with a reputable certifer.Some are fly by night.

scyth | 08-09-2009 04:52 PM
Re: Urban Farming Magpiefairy - When we fired up the community garden in SE Portland, it Was pretty much a seat of the pants, wing and a prayer operation. The city authorized the land, and that was about it. Somehow we ended up deciding that a 12' x 20' plot Was good enough for most people. If you wanted more, you could double up, But not more than that. Everybody brought their own compost; It was like a compost conspiracy. We had everything from longhaired space cadets To bluehaired welldressed retired ladies and SE Asians and black folk. A whole bunch of kids, too, which was great. Anyway, when the whole shitaree really started producing, Then a lot of trading/giving started going on, along With recipes and shared gardening knowledge. It really had its own community momentum, steered itself, Took care of itself. So I can't give you a dollar per square foot figure. The people did it all. scyth

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MrTiKi | 08-09-2009 05:54 PM
Re: Urban Farming Awesome thread. Anyone happen to know any affordable ( cheap ) farm land in southern florida or a site that posts them. The ones on Landandfarm.com are pricey.

Russkie | 08-10-2009 03:43 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTiKi (Post 1860078) Awesome thread. Anyone happen to know any affordable ( cheap ) farm land in southern florida or a site that posts them. The ones on Landandfarm.com are pricey.
Are you interested in some Everglades swamp land???

Publico, Pro Se | 08-10-2009 05:47 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTiKi (Post 1860078) Awesome thread. Anyone happen to know any affordable ( cheap ) farm land in southern florida or a site that posts them. The ones on Landandfarm.com are pricey.
Here you go: http://unitedcountry.com/

Russkie | 08-10-2009 06:25 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTiKi (Post 1860078) Awesome thread. Anyone happen to know any affordable ( cheap ) farm land in southern florida or a site that posts them. The ones on Landandfarm.com are pricey.
In southern Florida you will have a problem with fresh water over the long-term. As the population grows and they suck the water table more and more, sea water is intruding. The whole state will be brackish in the future, so you won't be able to count on any fresh water for irrigation or drinking. That will be important in the future. Go to the thumb of Michigan, look there. richest farmlands in the country, surrounded by the greatest reserve of fresh water in the US.

____hoot____ | 08-10-2009 01:13 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTiKi (Post 1860078) Awesome thread. Anyone happen to know any affordable ( cheap ) farm land in southern florida or a site that posts them. The ones on Landandfarm.com are pricey.
I would "follow the Amish" if I wanted cheap good farmland as they have the "old knowledge" as to what lands will produce without modern methods.

gunDriller | 08-10-2009 03:40 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858317) I built a doghouse-guess i'm a carpenter. I fixed a leaky faucet-guess i'm a plumber I welded two pieces of metal-guess i'm a welder I grow some vegtables and have a chicken-guess i'm a farmer You people are hobbyists not farmers. All hat and no cow-common phrase
that implies that the 'farmers' who drive the big harvesters & buy all Monsanto seeds & pesticides are more farmers than the person with a half acre who actually knows soil science. who's a better farmer ? - 1/ a farmer who's dependent on agribiz petrochemical based fertilizer, or 2/ a farmer who knows hot-composting & other soil science processes so they can take other people's discards (yard waste, manure) and turn that into fertilizer - but since this is a lot of work, only works one half acre.

MrTiKi | 08-10-2009 06:50 PM
Re: Urban Farming Thanks for the replies. I was looking in south florida cause I live in south florida. But land is so pricey here even 30 miles out from urban areas. I'm in my mid 20's so I don't have that much of a nest egg to invest in land hence the cheap land. I was looking into land so I could be a producer I do not want to work in service anymore. As for michagan I know people from there and every time I speak to them every few months or so they tell me about more cancer deaths. How they lost this friend that relative. But that might have more to do with where they are from (Flint). As for the amish I here some of them migrate here for the winter and set up shop for a few months.

____hoot____ | 08-10-2009 07:09 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTiKi (Post 1861889) Thanks for the replies. I was looking in south florida cause I live in south florida. But land is so pricey here even 30 miles out from urban areas. I'm in my mid 20's so I don't have that much of a nest egg to invest in land hence the cheap land. I was looking into land so I could be a producer I do not want to work in service anymore. As for michagan I know people from there and every time I speak to them every few months or so they tell me about more cancer deaths. How they lost this friend that relative. But that might have more to do with where they are from (Flint). As for the amish I here some of them migrate here for the winter and set up shop for a few months.
I think that the USA health costs could be cut by 25% if everybody had a teaspoon full of Cod Liver Oil a day. Very cloudy here in Michigan for much of the year and hense little natural vitamin D production from sunlight exposure for a population that watches too much TV and uses too much sunscreen: like the TV tells them to. Interesting that some amish travel to Florida to part time farm there. huummmmm

goldsilverman | 08-10-2009 07:49 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller (Post 1861572) that implies that the 'farmers' who drive the big harvesters & buy all Monsanto seeds & pesticides are more farmers than the person with a half acre who actually knows soil science. who's a better farmer ? - 1/ a farmer who's dependent on agribiz petrochemical based fertilizer, or 2/ a farmer who knows hot-composting & other soil science processes so they can take other people's discards (yard waste, manure) and turn that into fertilizer - but since this is a lot of work, only works one half acre.
Depends on who is asking, do you live in the city and depend on your needs from the outside or do you already provide for yourself? Without farmer #1 most people currently alive would die, without farmer #2 humans would cease to exist much longer in the future.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-10-2009 11:20 PM
Re: Urban Farming Again-i feed ten thousand people. I have post secondary soil science classes. I understand how it works. The funniest thing from my grandaddy's way of cultivate and hope was the expression on his face of him digging in my fields and seeing earthworms for the very first time.True story.I hope my sons show me a better way.(non of you can/will/) Us farmers are not brain-dead,corprate whores looking to make an easy buck.We are ALL links in a family chain that goes back hundreds of years,completely tied to mother nature,always-i'm the richest/poorest man here because i will pass down my TRADE/ASSETS to my children-just like before me. My grandaddy sleeps in the exact same spot he was born.-Think about that-when you want to educate me about FARMING.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-10-2009 11:28 PM
Re: Urban Farming And you can all go pound sand about your gardens and chickens and o my lordy "he has a pig"-those are standard opperational procedures on a farm. All the survival info here on the great GIM without a mention of a beef ring. Good luck nubs.

____hoot____ | 08-10-2009 11:33 PM
Re: Urban Farming You have earthworms? yu da man CANUCKFARMER! The complete lack of crawlers in the corn fields after they started useing Roundup around here was the first thing that peed me off about Monsanto back in the late 70s. Mind me asking your thoughts on biodiesel seeing that you grow the oil seeds? Have been looking at those little production units they have in Northern Hydralics. Where is it worth investing in those, in respect to the price of diesel?

Tumbleweed | 08-10-2009 11:51 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1862352) All the survival info here on the great GIM without a mention of a beef ring. Good luck nubs.
What's a beef ring? Don't think I've heard of that before. Is that like a moo you can get on your cell phone when it rings?

CANUCKFARMER | 08-10-2009 11:58 PM
Re: Urban Farming Bio-diesel.Long term survival,probably the best. Morally,horrible,in a perfect world. I'm more an algae man my self.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-11-2009 12:00 AM
Re: Urban Farming Beef ring dont worry some genius survialist has access to googgle.

scyth | 08-11-2009 12:33 AM
Re: Urban Farming canuckfarmer - And by the way, all, this download is not for the fainthearted........ "Beef rings were discovered in circa 3850 BC by Lugal-Zage-Si, the priest-king of Umma, Sumeria. The use of livestock as sex slaves was a priveledge permitted only to the ruling and priestly classes. As such, no scribes actually witnessed the use of beef rings, and they could not write of what they did not know. Tales of such abandonment to pleasure were passed down orally by generations of Hebrew spies. This is why Sumerians are ridiculed so harshly in the Old Testament. Because Hellenic Ring Cults were illegal and secretive, no written records were kept of beef ring usage by the Greeks. The first references to beef rings were written by Gaius Cornelius Taciturnus (c. 56�c. - 117) in his major works�the Anals and the Histories. It was known at the time that the Greeks had a long tradition of using sheep as surrogate sex partners. In the Anals, Taciturnus writes of curcuitus bovine anus, or beef rings, being used in mandatory religious celebrations of Phallus cults, which fixated on ridiculously well-endowed men as early as 1066 BC. Emperor Domitian in 96 AD. had Taciturnus torn apart by elves, his sphincter preserved as a symbol to all who would believe Greeks had larger penises than Romans." This what you mean, bro? I only include this as counterpoint to your severely Uneducated and massively opinionated Hysteria about the supposed stupidity Of those who are not into total, mechanized, large scale farming. Furthermore, I imagine that you sell your crops to a co-op Or combine, who are all agents of the "free market" Dominated by agribiz and commodity traders, not To people in your own town. And I'll bet you watch the commodity market like a hawk. Small is good. scyth

____hoot____ | 08-11-2009 08:16 AM
Re: Urban Farming I dimmly remember somewhere in my cloudy past either thinking seeing or dreaming of raised beds that had been made from old tires that had been somehow pulled inside out. All this talk of rings musta got me museing on it again. Think I will get a knife some chains and my old toy 4x4 and see what happens when I try to pull some of those old bald 15"ers over on the hill, inside out. Would be a good project.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-11-2009 09:40 AM
Re: Urban Farming Before there was refridgeration a group of farmers would go together and butcher one steer a week so everybody had fresh meat.Everybody took a turn providing an animal. aka-beef ring -not some wierdo sh@t that happened thousands of years ago-a few short decades ago

Tumbleweed | 08-11-2009 09:59 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by ____hoot____ (Post 1862705) I dimmly remember somewhere in my cloudy past either thinking seeing or dreaming of raised beds that had been made from old tires that had been somehow pulled inside out. All this talk of rings musta got me museing on it again. Think I will get a knife some chains and my old toy 4x4 and see what happens when I try to pull some of those old bald 15"ers over on the hill, inside out. Would be a good project.
Hoot I just cut one of the beads out on one side then clamp the edge of it in a vise. Bend it over and work it inside out a little at a time. It's easy once you get the hang of it. Car tires are easy but the bigger the tires get the more difficult they are. The larger ones need a different method.

Tumbleweed | 08-11-2009 10:23 AM
Re: Urban Farming Cannuckfarmer I'm not college educated like you but I have learned a lot from the people here on GIM. I make my living with cattle and horses and I'm proud of the people here who are learning to grow their food and feed themselves. The more of them the better. There are too few farmers and ranchers or people with an interest in growing their own food. The more people we have on our side the better the chance we all have fighting what the government and corporations have in mind for us. That I believe is enslaving people in cities where they lose the knowledge and ability to feed themselves. I've worked for a couple of corporations and all I had time to do was work, eat and sleep.

MagpieFairy | 08-11-2009 10:29 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1862352) And you can all go pound sand about your gardens and chickens and o my lordy "he has a pig"-those are standard opperational procedures on a farm. All the survival info here on the great GIM without a mention of a beef ring. Good luck nubs.
Well congratulations, CF. You've allowed your arrogance and ego to completely shut down and redirect a discussion that has nothing to do with what you're talking about or how you farm. btw, some of us are smart enough to raise small farm animals so we won't have to worry about getting together a "beef ring" or having refrigeration. In fact, that WAS what this thread was about in a sense..... scaling back in order to be more productive.

MrTiKi | 08-11-2009 11:24 AM
Re: Urban Farming Canuckfarmer has been on my ignore list for a few months. No point arguing with ignorance.

keehah | 08-11-2009 11:47 AM
Re: Urban Farming Time, Aug. 17, 2009: Urban Animal Husbandry Quote:
Carpenter, a city dweller who in recent years has tried her hand at raising turkeys (she got three day-old poults for $2 each) and pigs (which she fattened to 300 lb.) for dinner, says she turned to milk-producing goats because "I decided I needed a more long-term relationship." The author of the new Farm City: The Education of an Urban Farmer, she is eager to help others get into what she describes as a "hobby that involves sex and birth and death and life."

basplaer | 08-11-2009 01:05 PM
Re: Urban Farming Isn't beef ring a euphemism for anus?

Dave Thomas | 08-11-2009 01:12 PM
Re: Urban Farming No that's lips and aholes, a euphemism for a hot dog.

JJ_ | 08-11-2009 04:04 PM
Re: Urban Farming I always liked a-holes and eyeballs... srota rolls off the tongue.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-11-2009 11:36 PM
Re: Urban Farming Funny how i'm argueing with city people about food production. And funny how i'm on your ignore list. Makes me wonder about people who cant stand a debate. Maybe deep down they know their wrong/infereior? Whats potassium again? Decades of agricuktural knowledge and i'm dismiised? And you guys think the slaughter weight of a hog is 300 pounds? That would be a funny thing to see you city slickers showing up at a slaughter house with 300 pound pigs. Everbody laughing at you wondering what cousin had married what cousin! And speaking of pigs when its time to take the inscirrors out you will need good plyers and good ear plugs-those things can scream as you snap them little teeth out. And are you useing jacknife or rings when castrating calves? Are you cutting horns or using the acid? Check your hay for foxtail? Farming is so easy-i dont know why everbody got out of it?

MagpieFairy | 08-12-2009 12:35 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1864129) Funny how i'm argueing with city people about food production. And funny how i'm on your ignore list. Makes me wonder about people who cant stand a debate. Maybe deep down they know their wrong/infereior? Whats potassium again? Decades of agricuktural knowledge and i'm dismiised? And you guys think the slaughter weight of a hog is 300 pounds? That would be a funny thing to see you city slickers showing up at a slaughter house with 300 pound pigs. Everbody laughing at you wondering what cousin had married what cousin! And speaking of pigs when its time to take the inscirrors out you will need good plyers and good ear plugs-those things can scream as you snap them little teeth out. And are you useing jacknife or rings when castrating calves? Are you cutting horns or using the acid? Check your hay for foxtail? Farming is so easy-i dont know why everbody got out of it?
I've never lived in a city. Single family farms were never 1000s of plowed acres before the latter part of the past century. There's lots of small family farms here in the rural South. You were dismissed because you wanted to argue over a job title and talk about farming methods that had nothing to do with the subject of this thread while insulting the rest of the people trying to discuss the topic. You have a serious problem if you have to keep telling other people they are inferior. This certainly isn't the first thread you've done it in and I'm certain it won't be the last. Your brand of agricultural knowledge has its place, but it's not what this thread is about. Again, if you wanted to talk about growing crops in urban settings or permaculture, then jump on in. Oh, you can't. Why? Because you obviously don't know jack about either. I've always had a healthy amount of respect for farmers and ranchers. The ones I have had the pleasure of spending any time with were always gracious and educated. They were happy to talk farming and crops with single family farm owners like myself and others who aren't growing on a large scale, but still are farming nonetheless. I've never encountered a completely uneducated troll who talked down to others quite like this before. Hopefully, you'll get yourself banned before the next farming/gardening topic comes up so the rest of us can discuss it like adults without the interruptions. You're on my ignore list now, too. First person ever.

scyth | 08-12-2009 12:53 AM
Re: Urban Farming First of all, spelling. Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1864129) Funny how i'm argueing (arguing) with city people about food production. And funny how i'm on your ignore list. Makes me wonder about people who cant (can't) stand a debate. Maybe deep down they know their wrong/infereior (inferior)? Whats (What's) potassium again? Decades of agricuktural (agricultural) knowledge and i'm dismiised (dismissed)? And you guys think the slaughter weight of a hog is 300 pounds? That would be a funny thing to see you city slickers showing up at a slaughter house with 300 pound pigs. Everbody laughing at you wondering what cousin had married what cousin! And speaking of pigs when its time to take the inscirrors (inscisors) out you will need good plyers (pliers) and good ear plugs-those things can scream as you snap them little teeth out. And are you useing (using) jacknife or rings when castrating calves? Are you cutting horns or using the acid? Check your hay for foxtail? Farming is so easy-i dont (don't) know why everbody got out of it?
Now, next; I don't have a problem with small farming. And you haven't answered any of my questions from My previous post............. So, bro, continue to sit on the limb And saw it in half on the inward side. Can't figure that particular motivation........... scyth

Jimfrancisco | 08-12-2009 04:50 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1859442) But in parting i dare you all to go to a small mid western town bar- on a rainy saturday afternoon in the summertime.Find the table full of guys with johndeere hats and pull up a chair. Then tell them what you do for a living and how you do some farming on the side in the backyard and how your pretty much just like them.Then give them some more agronomic advice on how things should be done. Dont worry-at this point the bartender will have already called the ambulance which will have the morphine you will need.
So you are saying ALL farmers are assholes, not just you? Bigoted, IMO.

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____hoot____ | 08-13-2009 05:30 AM
Re: Urban Farming Been there when it is done to the baby pigs; still have the entire scene burned into my mind in color, stero, and odorvision. Musta been 4 or 5.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-13-2009 10:27 PM
Re: Urban Farming In all the confusion i cant remember if i fired five shots or six. Thank you for correcting me on spelling. Your welcome for me telling you a what real farming is really about. I cant find those questions i missed.

scyth | 08-14-2009 12:16 AM
Re: Urban Farming These, Canuck "This what you mean, bro? I only include this as counterpoint to your severely Uneducated and massively opinionated Hysteria about the supposed stupidity Of those who are not into total, mechanized, large scale farming. Furthermore, I imagine that you sell your crops to a co-op Or combine, who are all agents of the "free market" Dominated by agribiz and commodity traders, not To people in your own town. And I'll bet you watch the commodity market like a hawk. Small is good." scyth

Saoirse | 08-15-2009 03:16 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by MagpieFairy (Post 1859615) Give us some details!
Hi Magpie, your comment in my CSA tread tipped me off to this comment, which I seemed to have missed! I appreciate tremendously your interest in this thread and your willingness to help. OK, so here are some details to consider: My project is evolving, both in my mind and in my wallet, at this point. I think I want to start out very small, maybe with just a few buckets filled with soil over the next few months and see what can be done. Is this possible? What type of foods can be grown starting from scratch in the Fall / Winter? Should I try to do some seedlings inside in the meantime to plan in the Spring? If so, what do you recommend and how should I go about it? I do not have access to a plot of dirt. Everything at this point must be done in buckets / containers. And there isn't much room to work with at all. A few square feet here, a few square feet there. Fortunately, all of the space available has plentiful sunlight exposure. So that's the basic starting point. Thanks!

mike77777 | 08-15-2009 03:40 PM
Re: Urban Farming had corn, string beans,potatoes last nite with dinner. fresh and tasty. no trip to safeway, just go to back yard. my 2 1/2 year old daughter helps with planting,weeding,harvesting. more fun than a lawn. winter crops going in , kale,lettuce,spinach. the flowers have helped the local honeybees. expanding the beds again this year. seeds saved for next years crops. tomato plants do well in buckets, parsley and herbs also.

MrTiKi | 08-15-2009 06:35 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by scyth (Post 1867715) These, Canuck "This what you mean, bro? I only include this as counterpoint to your severely Uneducated and massively opinionated Hysteria about the supposed stupidity Of those who are not into total, mechanized, large scale farming. Furthermore, I imagine that you sell your crops to a co-op Or combine, who are all agents of the "free market" Dominated by agribiz and commodity traders, not To people in your own town. And I'll bet you watch the commodity market like a hawk. Small is good." scyth
Canuckfarmer is like Walmart mass produced cheap shit. Screw over anyone for the bottom line. Ok thats the last bash from me I don't want to become like canuck or anything. By the way "The encyclopedia of Country living" is an awesome book must have for anyone interested in farmer.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-15-2009 09:06 PM
Re: Urban Farming Plumber does the plumbing. Elctrician does the electricing. Lumberjack does the lumbering. Farmer does the farming. Some guys do a little of each. But they should never call themselves one or the other,unless its there sole responsibility. How many times do i have to repeat myself? And i'm the ass reminding people what there not? You feed yourself and i feed ... and you can call yourself the same PROFFESION as me? Your a good damn bunch of wanna bees.

scyth | 08-15-2009 10:29 PM
Re: Urban Farming Once again, spelling. "Plumber does the plumbing. Elctrician (electrician) does the electricing (electrical). Lumberjack does the lumbering. Farmer does the farming. Some guys do a little of each. But they should never call themselves one or the other,unless its there (their) sole responsibility. How many times do i have to repeat myself? And i'm the ass reminding people what there (they're) not? You feed yourself and i feed ... and you can call yourself the same PROFFESION (profession) as me? Your (you're) a good (I'll leave that one alone) damn bunch of wanna bees (wannabes)." Now, as I understand it your definition of farming Is using heavy fossil fuel fired equipment Combined with massive applications of petrochemically Derived fertilizer to hybrid, if not GMO seeds, With the intent that you can stay ahead of the commodities market. One word says it all. Profit. I'll take a person with a single 4' x 8' patch of hand built Soil in their backyard, planted with non-hybrid seeds, Tended and harvested carefully, as more of a farmer Than you will ever be, any day. A history lesson: read up on the Communist Russian Agricultural communes, and the "garden plots" which Were allotted to the workers. The "garden plots" fed the Russian nation, Not the communes. scyth

Russkie | 08-16-2009 05:18 AM
Re: Urban Farming The garden plots still do feed many people. Russians have a sustenance gardening tradition which is unbroken. They distinguish between gardening for your own food, and farming for profit. Here's what they generally grow (on about one acre or less) -Potatoes (enough for a family of 4) -Cabbage -Beets -Carrots -Onion -Garlic -Cukes -Tomatoes -Peppers -Squash (a big zuccini thing they call kabbachok) -Horseradish -various herbs for tea -both black and red currants -gooseberries -sea buckthorn -raspberries -two kinds of strawberries (they distinguish bigger ones and smaller ones) -Apples -pears -cherries -plums Whatever keeps, like root crops, are kept in the basement or in a shed. The rest of the stuff is either pickled, canned, or mashed with sugar and refrigerated. Berries become wine. Old people who live at the garden full time and raise animals usually have goats and chickens, and sell cottage cheese and eggs. They gather blueberries, mushrooms, cranberries, hazelnuts and nettle from the forest. Old women sell the excess from their gardens to survive. This diet is supplemented with pork products, store-bought buckwheat, rice, different types of pasta, butter, and whatever fried thing you can think of with flour. Fertilizer is manure spread by hand in early spring. People who don't own a roto-tiller borrow one for a day. Any parasites are picked off by hand. Their weekends from May til October are completely occupied from sunup to sundown. Two week summer holidays are spent at the garden. People sometimes wear bathing suits (or underwear) and listen to the radio while working. In the evening they drink a bit sometimes have a cookout with meat on skewers. If their yeild isn't what they expected, then they have to buy stuff of the back of trucks from Uzbekistan. Uzbeks drive trucks filled with cabbage, potatoes, carrots, onions, watermelon etc. and find a place to park for a few days. They stay and sell right off the truck until the police run them off, or they run out of business. The Uzbeks sleep right in the truck. If you have a truck, you can make money buying from farmers and selling in the cities. People with vans go to villages and buy pigs for slaughter and sell out of the back of the van. MANY people sell from tables or out of trucks and vans, getting excess from villages and re-selling in town. Remember this for SHTF.

BellevueBully | 08-16-2009 10:12 AM
Re: Urban Farming ^^^^Thanks Russkie. I always enjoy your reflections from your corner of the world.

Jimfrancisco | 08-17-2009 11:09 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1870539) Plumber does the plumbing. Elctrician does the electricing. Lumberjack does the lumbering. Farmer does the farming. Some guys do a little of each. But they should never call themselves one or the other,unless its there sole responsibility. How many times do i have to repeat myself? And i'm the ass reminding people what there not? You feed yourself and i feed ... and you can call yourself the same PROFFESION as me? Your a good damn bunch of wanna bees.
If we're arguing over job titles here - farming isn't actually a profession. It's a job. I won't bother correcting your spelling.

basplaer | 08-18-2009 02:57 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1870539) And i'm the ass
Well, at least nobody's putting words in your mouth.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-18-2009 11:24 PM
Re: Urban Farming Explore the country side gentalmen. You have all lost touch and you know it. I never did.

Roadgold | 08-18-2009 11:48 PM
Re: Urban Farming When i had seen the title of this thread last week I thought cool I can dig this one. Well to tell you the truth it Sucks. CANUCKFARMER you and your ego have ruined something good for people share information and ideas on urban farming/gardening due to your pride. So if you think growing plants for money is farming than i am a farmer too. So in saying that CANUCKFARMER You Suck! for ruining a good thing.

scyth | 08-18-2009 11:58 PM
Re: Urban Farming OK - lets bring this thing back on track. It isn't ruined. A whole lotta people here grow stuff. Some for personal consumption, some for sale. Point is, to me, this here Is an agricultural thread. So what's stopping it, and us? Nothing, that I can see. scyth

Jimfrancisco | 08-19-2009 04:37 PM
Re: Urban Farming What about a new thread about Urban Farming, and leave this one for people to say "take that cock out of your mouth, I can't understand a word you're saying" to Canuck. Or as we say in Ireland, "Are you talking to me, or chewing a brick?"

____hoot____ | 08-19-2009 08:54 PM
Re: Urban Farming Well CANUKFARMER I just read the post by Russkie about what the Russians have been forced to do in the last 20 years takeing their gardens to a "Higher Level" to survive, and you will at least have the satisfaction of haveing your detractors here make a simular effort if they aren't a part of the payed protected element. Perhaps after a few years of this they will have a different attitute. I at least know what my cousin's, FARMERS, have to go through to survive; and I have respect for your opinion and perspective. Besides I can't spell everything 100% correct either[spent a hellofa lot more time shoveling ditches and running cables than I have at a typewriter].

CANUCKFARMER | 08-21-2009 08:21 AM
Re: Urban Farming Thanks hoot. Funny how people get so mad when you show them their own delusions.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-21-2009 08:24 AM
Re: Urban Farming And i promises not to steal anyone elses trade "title",even though i may dabble in it once in a while. Which is what started this fight,but has been convinently ignored.

Russkie | 08-21-2009 08:32 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1879035) And i promises not to steal anyone elses trade "title",even though i may dabble in it once in a while. Which is what started this fight,but has been convinently ignored.
I"M the only 'real' farmer on this board........I dig my potatoes with a shovel, a half acre at a time. People who own tractors don't know the first thing about real farming. The best, most authentic farmers are the Amish. I bet most modern agro-business hustlers owning hundreds of chemical-soaked acres (and depending on government tariffs and subsidies from our tax dollars) wouldn't even know how to hitch a horse to a plough these days. Makes me sick..... People sitting on tractors all day long, soaking up the public's tax money, insulated from honest competition, shoving those chemicals down our throats in cahoots with the system..... . Old fat perverts chewing tobaccoo, chasing around sheep with hip waders on... stump-training their cows.... loading rocksalt into their 12 guage against people sleeping in their hayloft who might touch their daughters... smearing their dirty hands on their overalls before they adjust their giveaway John Deere baseball cap.... Farmers..... outstanding in their field.

CANUCKFARMER | 08-21-2009 09:45 AM
Re: Urban Farming Russian farmers,i know them well. They dig a half an acre of potatoes to make cheap booze out of and let the women and children finish off the harvest. Then they get hammered for the rest of the year and stand around wondering what went wrong. We actually keep a close eye on them because they are on a1 agricultural class land and i would hate to compete with them on the world market. Thankfully they are dismal failures at farming. Go ahead and look this up-your tesla quote wants you to see the truth. Can you handle it?

bjgnome | 08-21-2009 10:32 AM
Re: Urban Farming Just got back to cyberspace from a trip to Ibaraki prefecture, north of Tokyo. Ibaraki has a lot of good farmland (i.e. flat). Mito city is the prefectural capital. Across the street from the new high-rise prefectural administrative complex is a thriving sweet potato field, right next to a home depot type place and a starbucks. A small apartment complex I saw had sweet potatoes instead of a lawn. Grass lawns are few and far between. Most homes in the city have at least a few tomatoes, greens, herbs and kabocha squash. Rice fields and orchards of chestnut or plum are interspersed through residential areas. As you head towards the outskirts of the city, the rice fields keep multiplying, terraced up the valleys until the slopes get too steep for anything but orchards. My impression is that here in Japan space matters. Land is expensive, so even small plots are put to work. If space were at such a premium in the U.S., urban farming would be a lot more popular.

thorgrim | 08-21-2009 02:21 PM
Re: Urban Farming Wow, a thread with good potential ruined. CF, why you arguing over the details? Sure you feed 10,000 but you admit that one day you will not be able to anymore. We are trying to prepare for that day as well as produce healthier food for ourselves and maybe have a little left over to sell, trade are barter with. Does that make us idiots? Self preservation is dumb now? We don't all have the resources or desire to have large farming operations but even if we only produce for ourselves we are taking some of the strain of the commercial agricultural system. Leaving the food you produce for someone else. Surely there is some value in that.

keehah | 08-21-2009 02:34 PM
Re: Urban Farming Thought this may be useful to add here. Posted in a another thread yesterday by fasTTcar. Good urban farming practices could be much more energy neutral than industrial farming. http://financialsense.com/fsu/editor...p_image003.gif Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1675818) 450,000 pounds of fertilizer 3,000,000 pounds of grain production(hopefully)

Jimfrancisco | 08-21-2009 09:05 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1879159) Russian farmers,i know them well. They dig a half an acre of potatoes to make cheap booze out of and let the women and children finish off the harvest. Then they get hammered for the rest of the year and stand around wondering what went wrong. We actually keep a close eye on them because they are on a1 agricultural class land and i would hate to compete with them on the world market. Thankfully they are dismal failures at farming. Go ahead and look this up-your tesla quote wants you to see the truth. Can you handle it?
Half an acre would never yeild enough to keep a man hammered for a year. Wether he be Russian or Irish. So f#ck off, do a little work on your spelling and your Poitin recipes, then maybe come back with something useful to the forum?

Jimfrancisco | 08-21-2009 09:09 PM
Re: Urban Farming Oh, you might want to look into "Popcorn Sutton", who died not long ago - the king of "Likker".

CANUCKFARMER | 08-22-2009 07:06 PM
Re: Urban Farming Wow,a thread with good potential ruined. One of the only mainstream commercial farmers... oh forget it. More info in my little finger...oh forget it. When confronted by someone who knows something you think you know but dont,but really want to,but cant debate,you call them names and hit the ignore button..oh forget it. TAKE A GOOD LOOK FOLKS AT THE GURUS WHO ARE GUIDING YOU> SURE THEY ARE GOOD SPELLERS_AKA SPELL CHECK BUT HAVE ANY EVER SAID THE WORD POTASSIUM?

Between The Wheels | 08-22-2009 07:26 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858419) Permaculture-theres the stupidest thing i have ever heard.
I'm still waiting for your reasoned, cogent argument against permaculture.

scyth | 08-22-2009 10:10 PM
Re: Urban Farming Between the wheels - You most likely will never receive an answer......... As for CF's howl about Potassium, It is apparent that he is unaware of Nitrogen And Phosphorus. Anyway, I grow stuff my neighbors don't, And my neighbors grow stuff that I don't. So there is this interesting crosstrade Of gifted veggies up and down the road, And a lot of information exchanged. scyth

Saoirse | 08-22-2009 10:12 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by scyth (Post 1881471) Anyway, I grow stuff my neighbors don't, And my neighbors grow stuff that I don't. So there is this interesting crosstrade Of gifted veggies up and down the road, And a lot of information exchanged. scyth
And it sounds like you are building a community. A real, face-to-face human community. Good for you.

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Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)
- Survival Prep (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=141)
- - Urban Farming (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=397507)

scyth | 08-22-2009 10:47 PM
Re: Urban Farming Dang - What a concept. Neighbors. Of course. scyth

CANUCKFARMER | 08-22-2009 10:58 PM
Re: Urban Farming nitrogen? 70 pounds an acre.actual. phos? 15-25 permaculture? system losses more than gained=collapsed=why were all here

Saoirse | 08-22-2009 11:02 PM
Re: Urban Farming You talk of "systems," but I have yet to hear you talk of "neighbors." Outside of your utilitarian contribution of feeding masses - do you have any community, CF?

CANUCKFARMER | 08-22-2009 11:11 PM
Re: Urban Farming the neibour system is dead. no i didnt do it.

Golddust | 08-22-2009 11:28 PM
Re: Urban Farming 1 Attachment(s) If all of you that have been posting to c farmer haven't figured it out he is a sock puppet or a troll. The best way to deal with him/her is to ignore whatever this person posts. All this person is going to do is to bait everyone that posts and try to derail the thread. And has done a bang up job of doing it. This thread started good and could have been a nice learning tool. IMHO the best thing to do is to pay no attention to this person. Some one was talking about spraying crops to get rid of pesky critters that was destroying their crops. What we need to do is to use some of this spray to clean up this thread and forum..:yes:

Jimfrancisco | 08-22-2009 11:57 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1881542) the neibour system is dead. no i didnt do it.
Hmm. I wonder why you don't have any friendly neighbours - most all of the farmers I know are friends, loan out or help fix stuff when needed etc. Maybe it's because you are an asshole, who nobody likes?

AMforPM | 08-23-2009 12:38 AM
Re: Urban Farming I put Canu on ignore, but people keep responding to it instead of getting on with the original topic. I began gardening with a 6x6 area I dug and prepared in the cool of winter for spring planting. I used a version of square foot gardening on it and was amazed how much food I got. I enlarged year by year. My big 3 years we kept laying hens plus gardened 3 8x16 beds and that provided more than half our food with the eggs for protein. The most delicious half, I will add. Now the last hen is gone from that flock but I have the henhouse, 35x55 of ground the hens cleared of bugs and weeds and fertilized, and seed. So I'm ready to start up again when we need to. I suggest new gardeners start small. You don't wear yourself out and you learn what works and what doesn't in your microclimate. For example... here tomatoes need a little shade to do best the sun is so strong. Not much, but a little. Most places they need all the sun they can get. I made big tomato cages out of hog wire and used them also for cukes, sugar snaps, green beans, anything on a vine that did not get too heavy. To save space I grew bush squash and no crops like pumpkins or watermelon. Grapes I grew on fences. My old beds were visible from the street. In SHTF circumstances that is no good and the main garden will be the cross fenced hen yard, and only some grain unlikely to be recognized by urbanites like millet will be in the visible from the street garden. I'm trying to pick a grain suitable for this climate for us and the hens to share. I've got peaches, but need more, and plentiful figs. If we needed to live from our garden I would plant sweet potatoes. They keep well and produce a lot of food. In this climate you can grow something year round. Kale can handle the coldest it gets, and most winters so can other veggies like swiss chard.

____hoot____ | 08-23-2009 02:44 AM
Re: Urban Farming Just had some of the best belly:elefant: laughs I've had all weeeek reading the slaps going back and forth here, thanks guys keep it up!

serj | 08-24-2009 12:53 AM
Re: Urban Farming I consider myself an 'intensive gardener'. While I joke and say I'm a farmer to friends sometimes, to me a farmer uses machinery. Or at least horse drawn plows. They also typically lean more towards monoculture instead of variety in small spaces. As it stands now I have or work 3 gardens with over 2 acres of total space. I also have guerrilla plantings scattered about. I see permaculture has been brought up. I would love to see an entire thread about it..actually why not, instead of continuing arguing over semantics perhaps something constructive. As a matter of fact http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=401587

MrTiKi | 08-24-2009 05:10 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by serj (Post 1883016) I consider myself an 'intensive gardener'. While I joke and say I'm a farmer to friends sometimes, to me a farmer uses machinery. Or at least horse drawn plows. They also typically lean more towards monoculture instead of variety in small spaces. As it stands now I have or work 3 gardens with over 2 acres of total space. I also have guerrilla plantings scattered about. I see permaculture has been brought up. I would love to see an entire thread about it..actually why not, instead of continuing arguing over semantics perhaps something constructive. As a matter of fact http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=401587
Cool, what are you growing guerrilla??

Saoirse | 08-24-2009 07:24 PM
Re: Urban Farming The NY Times had an interesting article / op-ed piece today about "vertical farms" in cities. Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/op...espommier.html A Farm on Every Floor By DICKSON D. DESPOMMIER Published: August 23, 2009 IF climate change and population growth progress at their current pace, in roughly 50 years farming as we know it will no longer exist. This means that the majority of people could soon be without enough food or water. But there is a solution that is surprisingly within reach: Move most farming into cities, and grow crops in tall, specially constructed buildings. It�s called vertical farming. The floods and droughts that have come with climate change are wreaking havoc on traditional farmland. Three recent floods (in 1993, 2007 and 2008) cost the United States billions of dollars in lost crops, with even more devastating losses in topsoil. Changes in rain patterns and temperature could diminish India�s agricultural output by 30 percent by the end of the century. What�s more, population increases will soon cause our farmers to run out of land. The amount of arable land per person decreased from about an acre in 1970 to roughly half an acre in 2000 and is projected to decline to about a third of an acre by 2050, according to the United Nations. With billions more people on the way, before we know it the traditional soil-based farming model developed over the last 12,000 years will no longer be a sustainable option. Irrigation now claims some 70 percent of the fresh water that we use. After applying this water to crops, the excess agricultural runoff, contaminated with silt, pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers, is unfit for reuse. The developed world must find new agricultural approaches before the world�s hungriest come knocking on its door for a glass of clean water and a plate of disease-free rice and beans. Imagine a farm right in the middle of a major city. Food production would take advantage of hydroponic and aeroponic technologies. Both methods are soil-free. Hydroponics allows us to grow plants in a water-and-nutrient solution, while aeroponics grows them in a nutrient-laden mist. These methods use far less water than conventional cultivation techniques, in some cases as much as 90 percent less. Now apply the vertical farm concept to countries that are water-challenged � the Middle East readily comes to mind � and suddenly things look less hopeless. For this reason the world�s very first vertical farm may be established there, although the idea has garnered considerable interest from architects and governments all over the world. Vertical farms are now feasible, in large part because of a robust global greenhouse initiative that has enjoyed considerable commercial success over the last 10 years. (Disclosure: I�ve started a business to build vertical farms.) There is a rising consumer demand for locally grown vegetables and fruits, as well as intense urban-farming activity in cities throughout the United States. Vertical farms would not only revolutionize and improve urban life but also revitalize land that was damaged by traditional farming. For every indoor acre farmed, some 10 to 20 outdoor acres of farmland could be allowed to return to their original ecological state (mostly hardwood forest). Abandoned farms do this free of charge, with no human help required. A vertical farm would behave like a functional ecosystem, in which waste was recycled and the water used in hydroponics and aeroponics was recaptured by dehumidification and used over and over again. The technologies needed to create a vertical farm are currently being used in controlled-environment agriculture facilities but have not been integrated into a seamless source of food production in urban high-rise buildings. Such buildings, by the way, are not the only structures that could house vertical farms. Farms of various dimensions and crop yields could be built into a variety of urban settings � from schools, restaurants and hospitals to the upper floors of apartment complexes. By supplying a continuous quantity of fresh vegetables and fruits to city dwellers, these farms would help combat health problems, like Type II diabetes and obesity, that arise in part from the lack of quality produce in our diet. The list of benefits is long. Vertical farms would produce crops year-round that contain no agro-chemicals. Fish and poultry could also be raised indoors. The farms would greatly reduce fossil-fuel use and greenhouse-gas emissions, since they would eliminate the need for heavy farm machinery and trucks that deliver food from farm to fork. (Wouldn�t it be great if everything on your plate came from around the corner, rather than from hundreds to thousands of miles away?) Vertical farming could finally put an end to agricultural runoff, a major source of water pollution. Crops would never again be destroyed by floods or droughts. New employment opportunities for vertical farm managers and workers would abound, and abandoned city properties would become productive once again. Vertical farms would also make cities more pleasant places to live. The structures themselves would be things of beauty and grace. In order to allow plants to capture passive sunlight, walls and ceilings would be completely transparent. So from a distance, it would look as if there were gardens suspended in space. City dwellers would also be able to breathe easier � quite literally. Vertical farms would bring a great concentration of plants into cities. These plants would absorb carbon dioxide produced by automobile emissions and give off oxygen in return. So imagine you wanted to build the first vertical farm and put it in New York City. What would it take? We have the technology � now we need money, political will and, of course, proof that this concept can work. That�s why a prototype would be a good place to start. I estimate that constructing a five-story farm, taking up one-eighth of a square city block, would cost $20 million to $30 million. Part of the financing should come from the city government, as a vertical farm would go a long way toward achieving Mayor Michael Bloomberg�s goal of a green New York City by 2030. Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer has already expressed interest in having a vertical farm in the city. City officials should be interested. If a farm is located where the public can easily visit it, the iconic building could generate significant tourist dollars, on top of revenue from the sales of its produce. But most of the financing should come from private sources, including groups controlling venture-capital funds. The real money would flow once entrepreneurs and clean-tech investors realize how much profit there is to be made in urban farming. Imagine a farm in which crop production is not limited by seasons or adverse weather events. Sales could be made in advance because crop-production levels could be guaranteed, thanks to the predictable nature of indoor agriculture. An actual indoor farm developed at Cornell University growing hydroponic lettuce was able to produce as many as 68 heads per square foot per year. At a retail price in New York of up to $2.50 a head for hydroponic lettuce, you can easily do the math and project profitability for other similar crops. When people ask me why the world still does not have a single vertical farm, I just raise my eyebrows and shrug my shoulders. Perhaps people just need to see proof that farms can grow several stories high. As soon as the first city takes that leap of faith, the world�s first vertical farm could be less than a year away from coming to the aid of a hungry, thirsty world. Not a moment too soon. Dickson D. Despommier, a professor of public health at Columbia University, is writing a book about vertical farms

Between The Wheels | 08-24-2009 07:41 PM
Re: Urban Farming Site with good links: http://punkrockpermaculture.com/ http://blog.valcent.net/ more on Despommier's efforts: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...865974,00.html

CANUCKFARMER | 08-24-2009 10:39 PM
Re: Urban Farming Probably went to hard on the russian stereotype. There is no doubt they are better equiped to deal with "situations",where our society would just sink. i.e-neighbourly love If your starving but getting by with your preps and "farming" skills-you are alone.Count on your fingers right now how many people are doing the same on your block,and ask yourself how far you would go if you were starving or better your child.

Russkie | 08-25-2009 04:34 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1884637) Probably went to hard on the russian stereotype. There is no doubt they are better equiped to deal with "situations",where our society would just sink. i.e-neighbourly love If your starving but getting by with your preps and "farming" skills-you are alone.Count on your fingers right now how many people are doing the same on your block,and ask yourself how far you would go if you were starving or better your child.
YES we do drink some of our harvest, but at least we don't have raging roids from riding our tractors all day. American and Canadian farms probably don't even have shovels or hoes on the premises! First you had negroes, then tractors. In Russia, we are both negro AND tractor! And why do we Russians need your fancy technology and chemicals? We have millions of old women with nothing better to do, they can go out there all day long. Most of them are bent over permanently, and WE LIKE IT THAT WAY! Aggrrrhhhhh!!!!! The only government hand-outs we get here are a free slap in the face. Yes, you should be worried, because Russian black earth is the most fertile in the world, and as soon as global warming lets us grow corn, you're out of business. If our old men stand in one place for too long, their walking sticks start to sprout leaves. Now go smear your Preparation-H on your over-fed American popa (American, Canadian, its all the same to us), have someone help you get up onto your tractor, pop open a can of Dr. Pepper, listen to Celine Dion on your built in CD player, and pretend you're farming. p.s. you guys know I'm just having some fun, right? A lot of bannings lately, just want to make sure we all have the same sense of humor! Yikes!

serj | 08-25-2009 02:18 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTiKi (Post 1884100) Cool, what are you growing guerrilla??
right now just, walking onions, garlic and some native berry bushes I've planted

Saoirse | 08-28-2009 07:38 PM
Re: Urban Farming In NY, beekeepers are hard at work, despite stupid city prohibitions against keeping bees. http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...interfere.html

Bill843 | 08-30-2009 03:56 PM
Re: Urban Farming I would tend to suspect that "urban farming" is really only practical in peacetime. In any drastic food-shortage situation, people will quickly switch to "urban looting".... -end-

keehah | 08-30-2009 04:54 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1894491) I would tend to suspect that "urban farming" is really only practical in peacetime.
History shows otherwise. Both WWI and WWI were associated with two large urban farming booms.

Golddust | 08-30-2009 05:00 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by keehah (Post 1894583) History shows otherwise. Both WWI and WWI were associated with two large urban farming booms.
When the country went to rationing of food Home gardens popped up every where to help fill in the gaps..

Bill843 | 09-05-2009 07:40 AM
Re: Urban Farming I would think that the first step in trying to do any "urban farming" of any significant amount would be to get a good fence topped with barb-wire installed, and a couple big nasty dogs.... http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/new...1?OpenDocument Quote:
Veggie thefts prompt gardeners to lock up By Georgina Gustin ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH 09/05/2009 ST. LOUIS � Their work began months ago. The gardeners folded compost and peat into the soil. They planted their starter vegetables and seeds. They weeded and watched and babied until tiny sprouts started pushing their way up from the soil, eventually bearing kohlrabi or collard greens. And then one day, just as the Fox Park community garden was hitting its summer stride, one of the gardeners noticed some vegetables were gone. A few weeks later, more disappeared. Soon after, even more. The only thing the culprit left behind was some flip-flop tracks in the dirt. "We've had people come in periodically when the tomatoes were especially ripe and taking a few," said Terry Lueckenhoff, one of the gardeners. "But this year, people have come in and cleaned the garden out." The gardeners, who pay a modest sum to till their plots, reluctantly took a drastic step: now the garden's 30 neatly squared beds, bursting with tomatoes, peppers and eggplants, are locked behind a gate. The community garden is off-limits to the community. "We have a nice patio in there, with a pergola, with seating, and we certainly wanted to encourage people in the neighborhood to take advantage of that," Lueckenhoff said. "We hate to cut those people off." The loss of a few squash or cucumbers from community gardens each season is pretty standard. But in the past two years, and especially this season, community gardeners around the city have been seeing an uptick in veggie theft. The loss, they say, has gone beyond the odd tomato to less tempting vegetables. "Anything that anybody's growing has been taken," Lueckenhoff said. "... I had cabbages taken, which makes me think people are actually using them." ...(article continues)

Jimfrancisco | 09-05-2009 12:47 PM
Re: Urban Farming Where I am at the minute, people with no garden can take out a lease on an "allotment" - basically a small field to grow their own. Most people put up a little shed with a gas cooker for coffee, etc, some more luxurious than others. They tend to be a very tight-knit community, and if any thieving is noticed, someone stays in their shed overnight until they find the thief, then they get "dealt with" in the kindest way, using fists and boots. Actually a man I know, probably one of the highest-paid in the country and with a huge ornamental garden at home, was given an allotment by his kids before he retires. Wife never sees him any more, he loves it! Grows masses of all the veg that the family eat. And he is NOT the sort of person you would think would enjoy "gardening". It's also improved their marriage hugely - he spends so much time up there and comes back so happy with boxes of fruit and veg, whereas before he used to wander round the house with nothing to do but bitch at his wife and be unhappy. Some things, money cannot buy. Though I do suspect his shed has an extensive drinks cabinet...:wink:

Nanook | 09-07-2009 01:03 PM
Re: Urban Farming My wife is the gardener in the family. I do the 'grunt work' and she does the planning and planting. I also gladly help eat the results, which can be stunning. This hasn't been a good year, we seem to have some sort of disease on the tomatoes. The plants seem to be sickly, although the tomatoes still taste fine. Our zucchinis are going great guns, as are the winter squash. Green beans were very good, as were the green peppers. Our main focus is the tomatoes, but this is a down year for us and for others we know. No farmers here, just gardeners.

Acr0phobic | 09-08-2009 12:25 AM
Re: Urban Farming So It looks like our half acre plot is pumping out the goods again... though this year we planted the spaghetti squash a little close to the Zucchini and got a few hybrids from the zealous bees. Going to cook a few Squashinis and see how they tatse :p anyone have any interesting hybrid results this year?

bjgnome | 12-16-2009 08:42 PM
Re: Urban Farming This group is planting urban food forests in poorer neighborhoods: http://plantingjustice.org/programs/...n-food-forests

keehah | 12-19-2009 01:53 AM
Re: Urban Farming SnowBear Farm – Ten Thousand Hours and Counting Quote:
December 16, 2009 - 7:12pm in The Oil Drum Jim Dunlap.. is a progress report on the development of his farm in Virginia. A year ago I wrote a lengthy article for Oil Drum - Campfire describing the beginning of my conversion from a career of professional life often an desk to one of a farmer. Due to the interest and spirited responses to my article of last December I thought that Oil Drum readers might find it interesting to know what has transpired this past year on the farm and what I think I have learned. If you get lost a bit I would recommend reading the previous article... If one is embarking on even very large scale family gardening where the goal is to provide their family’s total sustenance then scaling for profit is not the point. Rather keeping expenses to the absolute minimum is critical, otherwise you are better off financially going to the supermarket. In this world using mostly hand tools, physical labor and maybe a tiller is all that is necessary. Farming is another story. The purpose of this occupation is to grow large amounts of food so that others can work at other tasks. Doing one’s part for The Division of Labor. After 3 years of using small scale equipment, inputting huge amounts of labor and having access to fairly lucrative farmers markets to sell my produce at, I think I can say with confidence that one cannot make enough money via the above methods to make this a viable occupation. At this point in time I am just about even in terms of expenses and revenues (not counting as the CPA’s do - depreciation and all that- but in raw terms). This means that I have worked about 10,000 hours and my spouse has worked about 1100 hours for $0/hr. That is not a typo. $0/hr. I am not counting as income the decent collection of equipment, tools and knowledge I did not posses before I started that could come in very handy in the future. But we are attempting to build an intermediate future that lands somewhere between the unsustainable present and civilizational collapse. So it is necessary to scale up the farm’s capabilities without drifting into full industrial farming practices. I expect that in my “research/experimentation” process that I will try a number of the modern practices of vegetable farming used on 5-15 acre vegetable farms and see how they fit my needs/goals. Examples of these techniques would be plastic mulch ( I am using straw at this time and will do both in 2010) and a heavy concentration on using transplants. It is worth noting that my 2009 revenues were 2 � times that of 2008 which were 2 times that of 2007. This indicates to me that I am learning and making progress even though I have not made a “profit” yet.

gunDriller | 12-19-2009 08:15 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by Saoirse (Post 1857739) I know many GIMers here will simply say: "leave the city and move to a bug out place." But this is an interesting phenomenon I've come across on the airwaves recently. It is called: "Urban Farming." Does anyone have any thoughts about it? Here is a podcast about it http://www.onpointradio.org/2009/07/urban-farming Any thoughts about urban farming?
already doing it. it takes a lot of work to replace my entire food supply. so far i only grow about 10% of the food i eat (brussel sprout leaves, tomatoes, potatoes). i'd like to raise some kind of fish. it really looks like i might want to consider goldfish or something that does well in a small tank, i don't have room for a catfish farm. i think this is a very good skill to learn. i expect our weekly garbage pickup to become less regular in the years to come. so it would be good to learn to compost food scraps etc.

bjgnome | 12-19-2009 06:03 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller (Post 2084127) so it would be good to learn to compost food scraps etc.
Composting is the easiest thing in the world. Take all your vegetable scraps and throw them in a heap. Add lawn clippings and leaves. If it gets mucky and stinky, you need to add more dried brown stuff (leaves). If critters are an issue, you might want to build a composting bin with a lid. Everything beyond that is pretty much optional bells and whistles. Even if you don't know how to compost, I assure you worms, bacteria and fungi are very competent.

scholarcoon | 12-31-2009 11:01 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by Russkie (Post 1885010) American and Canadian farms probably don't even have shovels or hoes on the premises! First you had negroes, then tractors. In Russia, we are both negro AND tractor!
Ahaha! Best quote of the thread! :23_28_100s:

TechGuy | 12-31-2009 11:18 AM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller (Post 2084127) already doing it. it takes a lot of work to replace my entire food supply. so far i only grow about 10% of the food i eat (brussel sprout leaves, tomatoes, potatoes). i'd like to raise some kind of fish. it really looks like i might want to consider goldfish or something that does well in a small tank, i don't have room for a catfish farm. i think this is a very good skill to learn. i expect our weekly garbage pickup to become less regular in the years to come. so it would be good to learn to compost food scraps etc.
Do some checking on talapia. They can live in really poor water and small confined spaces. They have a texture almost like catfish, with more of a fishy taste. Some poeple love em, some hate em, i am ok with them if cooked correctly, but it isn't salmon. (certainly better than goldfish carp)

FeS2 | 12-31-2009 01:13 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1858468) No tricks,not a trick question. Basic agronomic principals. No funny logistical numbers involved.
:beer: Lets do some fractional farming. Or better yet Fiat farming!

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Gold & Silver Forum - Urban Farming

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Light | 12-31-2009 03:31 PM
Re: Urban Farming I encourage my neighbors to grow lots of food in their yards and then I just take what I need. Is that so wrong?

Old Herb Lady | 12-31-2009 05:02 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by Light (Post 2102630) I encourage my neighbors to grow lots of food in their yards and then I just take what I need. Is that so wrong?
Hey, Wait a second !! That attitude sounds soooooo familiar to me !! Ohmagosh ! Is it really you ?? I have missed your sarcasm !!!! You shoulda dropped me a line to tell me you were here ! I wouldn't have bitten your head off. I was lookin' for you because I hadn't seen you in a while. Am I right or way off ?? Yipppeeeeee !!!!!!!!!!!

keehah | 01-13-2010 02:43 PM
Re: Urban Farming http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddr...e-know-it.html Quote:
A new report launched on Tuesday entitled Food 2030 gives a warning that Britain can no longer afford to be complacent. "We need to think differently about food," said Gordon Brown in his foreword to the report, produced by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra). Setting out a new food strategy for the next two decades, the report says that the industry needs to prepare for "sudden shocks" such as natural disasters or price spikes. Britain will need to produce more food, we are told, but will have to do so sustainably, "without damaging the air, soil, water and marine resources, biodiversity and climate that we all depend on".
Can I hope our governments will spend some stimulus money (while it has value) on urban farming? No answer needed, I've been waiting years for such a sign. I expect many could find a way to screw it to failure even with true intensions.

Publico, Pro Se | 01-13-2010 05:36 PM
Re: Urban Farming Quote:
Originally Posted by keehah (Post 2124350) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddr...e-know-it.html Can I hope our governments will spend some stimulus money (while it has value) on urban farming? No answer needed, I've been waiting years for such a sign. I expect many could find a way to screw it to failure even with true intensions.
I drive by a many a vacant city lots and I say ... Good place for an urban garden. Would be good way to get the welfare people out of the house and meeting others in the hood.

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