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- - Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=125123)

Kahlil Gibran | 04-07-2007 09:23 PM
Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Lifted this from survivalblog.com and wonder if most GIMers are planning to "share" their survival preps with their sheeple neighbors. Personally, I'm not feeling as generous as this guy: Charity in Disaster Situations--Insuring the Cohesion of the "We" At the risk for sounding preachy, I'd like to re-emphasize the importance of storing extra logistics so that you can be charitable when disaster strikes. Charity is Biblically supported, and makes common sense. (I strongly advise it, regardless of your religious beliefs.) When the Schumer Hits the Fan (SHTF), you will want neighbors that you can count on, not people that you fear or distrust. By dispensing copious charity to your neighbors that did not have the same foresight that you did, you will solidify them as strong allies instead of envious potential enemies. In describing communities, psychologists and sociologists often talk in terms of the "we/they paradigm". Typically, this is used in a negative connotation, such as when they describe racism. (And rightfully so--I loathe racism.) But I can see something positive in building an appropriate "we/they" distinction during a societal collapse--the distinction between your local community and predatory outsiders. Just ask anyone that has ever lived "inside the wire" at a Forward Operating Base (FOB) in Iraq. Those soldiers will tell you that they felt a strong cohesive bond, and were absolutely determined to repel anyone that attempted to attack their FOB. Their steadfast resolve can be summed up with the words: "They are not getting through the wire. Period." Dispensing charity helps build a cohesive "we" and draws into sharp contrast the "they." (In my view of the near future, the "they" will likely be roving bands of criminal looters. Imagine a situation like in the movie The Road Warrior, and you are inside the perimeter at the refinery. Can you see the appropriate "we/they"?) By logical extension, you can dispense significant charity only if you have it to give. Clearly, you must stock up above and beyond your own family's needs. So, for example, if you calculate that you need 300 pounds of wheat for your family, don't buy just 300 pounds. Instead, buy 600, 900, or even 1,200 pounds. That might sound expensive, but presently you can buy 50 pound sacks of hard red winter wheat for around $7 to $8 each. About 45 pounds of wheat will fit in a plastic 6 gallon food grade bucket that costs just over $2. Or even if you pay more to buy wheat that already packaged for long term storage in buckets (from a vendor like Walton Feed), a 45 pound bucket of wheat still costs just $17.15. Beans and rice are similarly priced. Consider that extra food as a key to building a "sense of community." Even for even those of you that are non-religious, dispensing charity will be part of your "we/they paradigm" insurance. If purchased in bulk quantities, it is also cheap insurance. Don't neglect buying your family that insurance! OBTW, speaking of wheat, the threat of the wheat "super-blight" is looming. This makes it urgent for families to stock up. Where is the Biblical support for charity? It can be seen throughout the Old and New Testaments. Remember the Bible's guidance about leaving unharvested rows of crops, to benefit "gleaners"? For example, see Leviticus 23:22: "And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God." (KJV) The Old Testament law regarding charity can be found in Deuteronomy Chapter 15, verses 7-11 (KJV): 15:7 If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: 15:8 But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth. 15:9 Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year [of Jubilee], the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee. 15:10 Thou shalt surely give him, and thine heart shall not be grieved when thou givest unto him: because that for this thing the LORD thy God shall bless thee in all thy works, and in all that thou puttest thine hand unto. 15:11 For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land. From these verses it is it clear that we will always have poor people in our community ("the poor shall never cease out of the land"), and it abundantly clear that it is our duty to help them ("Thou shalt surely give...") End of preachy mode. My apologies if this offended those of you that aren't Christians or Jews. But again, even folks that are strident atheists should see the wisdom of having extra food storage to provide for charity. It is in your own best interest. :D don't remember you ever inviting me to swim in your pool...

Infidel | 04-07-2007 09:52 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 564998) :D don't remember you ever inviting me to swim in your pool...
You are welcome anytime it is warm enough, please do take note that I've added that :signs1: urine-indicator dye.

Halophyte | 04-07-2007 09:55 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? What survival preps ?

Maddie | 04-07-2007 10:37 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? It's a tough question. I have too many neighbors to share with everyone. I don't begin to have that kind of money or storage space, and if word got out we had food, we'd be quickly overwhelmed. I don't feel obligated to share out of a sense of charity. I do, however, live in a great neighborhood, and I care about our neighbors. The people here have been here a long time, some as long as 50 years or more. We've been here almost 20 years. Everyone pitches in to help without having to be asked. If the creek floods or a tree falls on someone's roof, the neighborhood rallies around them. We throw block parties, have book clubs, barbeques, etc. There are simply too many neighbors, however, to feed them all. That said, there are a few neighbors I wouldn't let starve. We've known them for almost 20 years. They've been good neighbors, always willing to lend a helping hand. The only extra food I've stored for people outside the family is rice and beans and Ramen noodles, but it would keep them from starving. It would be important, in a neighborhood where we live as closely as this one, to have the support of one's neighbors, and as willing as they've been to help through the years, I'd be willing to help them in a disaster. Some have some useful skill sets, too. I do worry about the character of our neighborhood changing. Lately, we've been invaded by McMansions. Those folks tend to have a different attitude, not as friendly and not as quick to pitch in and help. It's almost seems as if they're establishing their own neighborhood within the older neighborhood. We've also always been a neighborhood of mostly couples, as the houses are too small for modern parents to want to raise kids in. With the larger McMansions, I suppose there will be more children. In a disaster, that could be a problem. The first person who says "think of the children!" and suggests an entitlement to my resources for their kids or that I shouldn't be keeping my dogs alive on food that their children could be eating instead isn't getting any rice and beans...

Maddie | 04-07-2007 10:52 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 564998) My apologies if this offended those of you that aren't Christians or Jews. But again, even folks that are strident atheists should see the wisdom of having extra food storage to provide for charity. It is in your own best interest.
You know, he wasn't offensive until he felt there was cause to apologize to non-Christians and Jews. I'm always suspicious of people like that. Apparently, deep-down he feels the only thing that makes him a decent human being is that God told him to be that way, which leads me to believe that deep-down he may well not be inclined to be a decent human being. I wouldn't trust this guy in a survival situation. If hardship drives him to a crisis of faith, what will he turn into? Will he still be a decent neighbor? (-From the non-Christian, non-Jew who just said she'd share food with her neighbors.)

RichG | 04-07-2007 11:19 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Maddie...my situation exactly. Share with some...to a point. With a hand picked few you become their life-line, and they will/should help to protect that source. But even that becomes tricky....they can never become part of the inner group that will protect each other at all costs. I have no problem with not giving food. Why take food from my children to feed to others, who by the way, I have warned more than once, that the money that they are spending for that new pool, or finished basement, may be better spent in food storage. I have given my, 'A providers job is to take care of his/her family first', to different neighbors more than once. That is my job! To provide and protect my family, not someone else's. I can't imagine seeing one of my kids starve to death, knowing that I was warned....and a pool seemed like a better idea at the time!!! Sorry....'no food for you'. My 'A' list is composed of mainly blood, and a few friends (are ya reading this?), I have a short 'B' list of neighbors. One of which has great contacts to just about everyone in town...a definite plus when you need something or you need something done. So yes.....and no.....and I will shoot to kill...play time is over....I am going to give my family my best. That is my job as a father and husband. :smokin:

Maddie | 04-07-2007 11:38 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? I agree, Rich. Even without the warnings from friends, there's enough handwriting on the wall these days that most people ought to be aware of the possibilities. For those who have faith in government aid, Katrina should have opened their eyes to the fact that there are situations the government can't bail you out of. Our first duties are to our families. After family, I'll look after those I care about outside my family and those who will be worth the investment. While I certainly don't want to watch someone else's kids starve, I don't have the resources to save everyone. It's their parents responsibility to provide for them. I may be willing to help where I can, but I'm not obligated to.

ForeverInDebt | 04-07-2007 11:47 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? My preps are: 1st. For my immediate family. Wife, Son. 2nd. For my close relatives, Parents, In-laws, etc. 3rd. For any deserving friends or neighbors. Y'all got something to trade? :proud:

buff01 | 04-07-2007 11:57 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by Halophyte (Post 565022) What survival preps ?
exactly.... :thinkey:

blueice | 04-08-2007 12:23 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Only with a selected few. :Sorry: :Sorry:

Master_Ho | 04-08-2007 01:34 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Only with the woman who sleeps with me!!!! Please don't tell my wife!!! :wink:

mjk1971 | 04-08-2007 03:05 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? The time to share is BEFORE the disaster. Once the disaster comes, those who failed to prepare are SOL. I'm happy to share my knowledge and planning advice with anyone who is interested. But don't come beggin' if you didn't take me seriously before it happened.

R MacDonald | 04-08-2007 05:30 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? In a time of disaster, I have come to realize that we all have to pull together as one united nation of brotherhood in the world. In the past I have seemed very intolerant of my fellow humans of all races, religions, creeds, national origins, and sexual orientations, and this has been my moral stumbling block. A time of disaster is a time that all of our souls will be tested in these, the last days. To make amends for my selfish wickedness, I will be contacting my local FEMA chapter to see what my family and I can do to assist others who were under prepared, and therefore less fortunate (be it food or a warm bed), and would advise my other fellow GIMers to do the same. TOGETHER, we can make a difference! http://www.nature.nps.gov/helpyourpa.../diversity.jpg NOT!!! (Happy belated April Fool's Day :aetsch: )

Tn...Andy | 04-08-2007 08:02 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by mjk1971 (Post 565191) The time to share is BEFORE the disaster. Once the disaster comes, those who failed to prepare are SOL.
Pretty much agree. Once you start "with a few select neighbors", are you going find out they have extended family and friends that have the same expectations...and so on...... and so on. Unless you plan on being the SHTF Walmart, you'd better be real careful before starting down this road.

RichG | 04-08-2007 08:13 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 565277) Pretty much agree. Once you start "with a few select neighbors", are you going find out they have extended family and friends that have the same expectations...and so on...... and so on. Unless you plan on being the SHTF Walmart, you'd better be real careful before starting down this road.
You are so right. Circumstances will dictate if the 'B' list ever gets activated. :smokin:

Maddie | 04-08-2007 09:49 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 565277) Pretty much agree. Once you start "with a few select neighbors", are you going find out they have extended family and friends that have the same expectations...and so on...... and so on. Unless you plan on being the SHTF Walmart, you'd better be real careful before starting down this road.
That's an excellent point, and one I based my decision, in large part, on this. We've known our few select neighbors for almost 20 years, and we know their situations, especially regarding family and friends. They don't have any extended family in this state or, in one case, in this country. None are church-goers or members of any other organized group they may feel obligated to. They live within a couple houses of me. I don't plan to tell them the details of what I have stored, and if anyone took a peek into my basement, they wouldn't see anything suspicious, as nothing is in plain site. In fact, my basement is dark and insanely cluttered, and one's first impression would be that there is nothing but junk in there. We've kept it that way on purpose. Living in a neighborhood when the TSHTF will be tricky. There are neighbors that I already know will be problems to be reckoned with if TSHTF. I hope we're out of here before then.

Kahlil Gibran | 04-08-2007 10:19 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by mjk1971 (Post 565191) The time to share is BEFORE the disaster. Once the disaster comes, those who failed to prepare are SOL. I'm happy to share my knowledge and planning advice with anyone who is interested. But don't come beggin' if you didn't take me seriously before it happened.
Attachment 26580 You Survivalists Are All Losers! :wavey: hoarding is unlawful! don't be selfish! we are your neighbors! We waved at you on our way to the Mall!

mtnman | 04-08-2007 10:22 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 565277) Unless you plan on being the SHTF Walmart, you'd better be real careful before starting down this road.
If/when the SHTF, I fully intend on being the local "Walmart" I�ve always been a wheeler dealer, that�s what I do for a living now, why change. I�ve been stocking up on all sorts of "off the grid" living supplies for years. When/if it comes down, my standard response to those unprepared will be, "What you got to trade?" Every community will need a "Trading Post" and I�m that guy!

momopanda | 04-08-2007 10:30 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Sure , I'll share... If I'm absolutely certain that I'm out-armed :bear_grin: .

Tn...Andy | 04-08-2007 11:09 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? See, I was gonna say "Yep.....I'll be sharing the business ends of bullets on a regular basis"....but I thought it sounded sorta mean :D MtnMan: I understand.....but a lot of them won't have anything worth trading for, and being desparate, will likely do desparate things. First thing I'd trade for are the services of about 6 well armed, big guys.....and make sure I kept them well paid :D

jerry | 04-08-2007 11:29 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Have given this much, much thought. And after a lifetime (over 65 years) of sharing, testing the concept of sharing, and considering the consequences to sharing; I have arrived at the conclusion that sharing is the reason we are in this horrible mess in the first place. I do not wish to share this with you; but I wish to test what you take from the concept in order that I might gain feedback. This feedback will allow me a mirror in which to reflect on my own feelings about this in the light of your impressions. And I am already aware that this feedback will be filtered through my "the greatest gift a man can make is to give his life for his fellow-man" bullshit filter ('cause I cannot unlearn the garbage pumped into my head for all of my life). But think about it. The discussion here is about making sure that others are fed. Fed what? Whatever society deems is necessary. Nature operates on a "catch as catch can" basis and humans attempt to end run that every chance they get. Humans operate in defiance of catch as catch can because it is assumed that the most important thing is to have others dependent upon us and that we demonstrate dependence upon them (man's interdependence on man ... the stuff that governments are founded upon and continue to encourage as that is the only reason for their survival). All else in nature enjoys a bountiful balance while the height of humans rationale seems to be destruction of the planet. In Orwell's world black is white and up is down. Maybe sharing is undermining (confidence, innate abilities, natural motivation, etc.) and simply going out to enjoy ones-self by ones-self (absolute selfishness) is the key to becoming one with the universe. Narcissism is the greatest sin in this Orwellian nightmare. But is the highest calling in nature. I don't want anybody to feed me anything. I want to be free to enjoy those things that nature put before me to experience. I should not want nor expect that the things mankind feels are necessary for me to ingest are in any way correct or beneficial. After mankind's science destroyed my health by packing my teeth with mercury. Innoculated my body before the age of reason with more mercury and poisoned my psyche with arcane Pavlovian experiments; I am ready to unleash the real me sans human input. That's right, naked and barefoot in the sunshine! Eating trees, roots, worms and insects ... not out of desperation, but because it is important to enjoy the universe in the deepest sense and be enjoyed by nature in that same sense. Let me give you an example: I was out collecting dandelions blossoms a few summers ago. Suddenly I got a feeling that I had never experienced before. The world took on a yellowish hue and I began to notice a strange sweet taste in my mouth. It was as though my whole body became intensely sweet and joyful ... a state of bliss overcame me and for that one moment in time I was sated and completely content. I opened my hand and looked down at a dandelion blossom that was nectar and pollen side down against my palm. I was absorbing directly through my skin and into my blood/lymph stream the mind, body and soul altering nourishment of the plant. What I was experiencing was the joy a bee feels when out in the spring collecting pollen and nectar. We live such drab lives in comparison to our neighbors, the other creatures of this universe, that we are a joke because we relegate ourselves to such a small corner of the sum total of what there is to life . That is why so many of us fall prey to the cults, mysticisms and snake-oil salesmen. We�re always looking for salvation (the ability to experience true joy ... oneness with universe without other human impact) from the teachings of others, when what we should be doing is rejecting the things of man and stepping naked into the real world. Heed my words and move to prove them WRONG. Find the lie in what you feel I convey. Research yourself. Use your "society says" club to beat me back into line. There is no billion dollar mansion, special significant other, 10 day trip to the "eternal dream water-park," or multi-million dollar car that can make up for the loss of one second of REAL experience in the "catch as catch can" universe. Stop trying to fit your true self into the straight jacket of social convention. Free your mind don't be so shallow ... and the rest will follow. The universe ain't out to "get" you and I don't give a fvck about what you do.

Kahlil Gibran | 04-08-2007 11:43 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry (Post 565352) Heed my words and move to prove them WRONG. Find the lie in what you feel I convey. Research yourself. Use your "society says" club to beat me back into line.
Gee...I guess we could tell our starving neighbors to just remove their clothing and shoes WTSHTF but that is a topic for another thread in the Faith and Religion Section. Quote:
The universe ain't out to "get" you and I don't give a fvck about what you do.
:wavey: thanks for sharing neighbor!

mtnman | 04-08-2007 01:04 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 565344) MtnMan: I understand.....but a lot of them won't have anything worth trading for, and being desparate, will likely do desparate things. First thing I'd trade for are the services of about 6 well armed, big guys.....and make sure I kept them well paid :D
Oh yeah! Several "Helpers" are in order. At first there will be gold rings and gold jewelry, after a while who knows what survivors will turn up with!

Horn | 04-08-2007 02:30 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? It depends how willing they are to bow and accept me as their personal savior. No really, I do have a soft spot for friends, I hate to see them down.

R MacDonald | 04-08-2007 04:09 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 565319) Attachment 26580 You Survivalists Are All Losers! :wavey: hoarding is unlawful! don't be selfish! we are your neighbors! We waved at you on our way to the Mall!
Agreed... We are all selfish bastards! http://goldismoney.info/forums/showt...240#post565240 :bear_grin:

Unclad Lad | 04-08-2007 07:21 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? A lot of this is going to depend on the nature and potential duration of the crisis What is the baseline fan-hitting? A Katrina-level event, where there is a regional crisis, but the promise of aid coming within a week? If I had the extra, damn right I'd share! 100 pounds of rice and beans will go a long way, and maybe when something like this happens, some of my neighbors will also be ready. A larger crisis, where relief isn't likely coming for a while (never is an EOTWAKI event, and has different rules), then I'm going to be more judicious with my resources, but I'm still going to help where I can. Whatever happens, I'll make sure I have enough to cover the needs of my own, and I know I'll be eating better than the crowd outside (discreetly, of course).

Nuggethunter | 04-08-2007 07:43 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Until you see "" County Welfare Department"" sign on my property stay the hell away ........

REV127 | 04-08-2007 08:42 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? The way I see it I'll keep a low profile for the first weeks or months of a major collapse and let nature take its course. This will save me a ton of ammo compared to what would be expended trying to be benefactor to savages. After this shakeout I will be interested in trade. If nothing else I can "employ" people for their labor, even if it is mostly busywork. Nothing gets you nothing, you don't want to start up an entitlement mentality under conditions of scarcity. I stock bags of beans and rice for this purpose, beggar can't be choosers. Since the realities of my community is that its already largely agricultural and most people have some chickens, goats and everybody has enough land to sustain themselves I'll focus on making sure people get the seed and animals they need to do for themselves and worthwhile public works like defense, water and sanitation. To counter Rawles' scripture there is famously the story of the 10 virgins. Guess what the virgins without enough oil got? Nuth'n. Quote:
Matthew 25 25:1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 25:2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 25:3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 25:4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 25:5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. 25:6 And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!' 25:7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 25:8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.' 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, And those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. 25:11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!' 25:12 But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.' 25:13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.
So many would twist scripture to their own end because they wish to take the Lord's name in vain, to give the impression that their doctrine flows directly from God. Be very suspicious of anybody who feels a need to immediately back their position with scripture. If the work really is in line with God's will it will be self-evident.

omegaman | 04-08-2007 08:45 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by buff01 (Post 565104) exactly.... :thinkey:
What are "survival preps"? :wink:

TheSimpleton | 04-09-2007 10:27 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? If you can't share your preps, maybe you've got the wrong preps. If you had a chicken, would you share a fertile egg? If you had a cow or sheep, would you trade one of the twins for a cut of the future milk? If you had a berry, would you share the shoots? If you had chicipins or chestnuts, would you share the seeds? If you did, and even one in ten neighbors planted them, the whole neighborhood would be richer. And selfish or selfless, that would make things easier for you, yours, and the world. Where is this scarcity mentality from? Don't I recall hearing something about lillies (which are edible BTW) and fields? In keeping with Jerry, why would anyone be stressed about this? In areas, there are enough dandilions and chickory to keep people going indefinitely--if only they are willing to humble themselves a wee bitty bit. It takes no preps and no money to clear a choke-cherry thicket and sow dandilion and milkweed fluff to insure next year's harvest. The mastery of this is that you can freely tell men they can live by eating these--and they still will prefer to take a yoke and starve. If they will humble themselves, they are showing a true change and desert to live. In any case, preps of the BB&B variety makes you a target--early or late. Preps of the "help me finish the coop and I'll give you a couple hatchlings" variety makes you a protected asset. No one will steal this and no one will ask because it requires work. This will divide the sheep from the goats. As I've said a hundred times--if you want to prepare, go out in your area and plant fruiting trees and vines. In parks, trainyards, paths, lots, and riverbeds. They will be there even if your house is not. TS

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Tn...Andy | 04-09-2007 11:20 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Unless the SHsTF in January. I still haven't gotten an answer from the nature folks on where they find dandilions and chickory under a couple feet of snow.....and it's a LONGGGGG time until spring. That 'eat off the land' stuff makes a neat theory for about 3-4 months out of the year most places......the rest of the year, you'd best plan on dragging some kind of meat into the cave, and having everything you can think of as preserved food from that summer period. Even a goat starve to death in the winter if they aren't supplimented feed most places.

MOD1 | 04-09-2007 12:08 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Yes, I'll share - I expect to ... with some. I don't think any individual is an island of independence - including myself. I broke both feet in a fall on Easter Sunday April 16, 2006 - surgery and four months in a wheelchair followed. One of my two 12 year old dogs died the day after my accident. Without making this story sound like a country and western song, I found out quickly who my friends were. Yes, I'll share what I have ... with some. Oh, BTW, as circumstances dictate, maybe I wouldn't want to survive - who knows. Keep the faith. Mod1 In the mean time, give something away now - your knowledge - teach.

Alpine5654 | 04-09-2007 02:13 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Share? No Barter for goods and labor? YES! I worked for the preps, so can the people who want them.

REV127 | 04-09-2007 05:52 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSimpleton (Post 566205) If you can't share your preps, maybe you've got the wrong preps. If you had a chicken, would you share a fertile egg? If you had a cow or sheep, would you trade one of the twins for a cut of the future milk? If you had a berry, would you share the shoots? If you had chicipins or chestnuts, would you share the seeds? If you did, and even one in ten neighbors planted them, the whole neighborhood would be richer. And selfish or selfless, that would make things easier for you, yours, and the world.
Up to this point you're making a whole lot more sense than many survivalists. Quote:
Where is this scarcity mentality from? Don't I recall hearing something about lillies (which are edible BTW) and fields?
The scarcity mentality comes from the actual reality of limited resources. As Andy pointed out the ultimate limit is the growing season. Quote:
In keeping with Jerry, why would anyone be stressed about this? In areas, there are enough dandilions and chickory to keep people going indefinitely--if only they are willing to humble themselves a wee bitty bit. It takes no preps and no money to clear a choke-cherry thicket and sow dandilion and milkweed fluff to insure next year's harvest. The mastery of this is that you can freely tell men they can live by eating these--and they still will prefer to take a yoke and starve. If they will humble themselves, they are showing a true change and desert to live.
You can't live on danilions and chickory alone. You definately can't live on hunting game because it will nearly all be wiped out by everybody else who thinks they can hunt for their food. Quote:
In any case, preps of the BB&B variety makes you a target--early or late. Preps of the "help me finish the coop and I'll give you a couple hatchlings" variety makes you a protected asset. No one will steal this and no one will ask because it requires work. This will divide the sheep from the goats.
Actually raising food, though very important to any sustainable survival plan, will make you a big giant target. Farms have always been raided, that will not suddenly change. Few if any people will want to take over your chicken farm because that does require work and ingenuity. Instead they'll just steal your birds and eggs, maybe trying to kill you in the process, because "I'm hungry now!" Many people don't understand that the professional soldier is a product of agriculture. Quote:
As I've said a hundred times--if you want to prepare, go out in your area and plant fruiting trees and vines. In parks, trainyards, paths, lots, and riverbeds. They will be there even if your house is not. TS
That is an extremely good idea. I am blessed with large number of wild foods. I have fish and turtles in my pond, wild blackberries, acorns, walnuts, a variety of oputina cactus, I know of a wild orange tree in the woods and have two grapefruit trees on my property that fruit twice a year in the Summer and Fall. After my first crop I'll be wild planting Seminole pumpkin squash, a native crop that is shelf stable from 6 months to a year at room temperature. I might do the same with sunflower.

keehah | 04-09-2007 09:14 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Nice post Jerry! Quote:
ECOPSYCHOLOGY: EIGHT PRINCIPLES Theodore Roszak http://ecopsychology.athabascau.ca/Final/intro.htm
I may or may not share. It depends on my extended family. If things do get bad I'll have at least three freeloaders to feed before I can think of my neighbours. I would prefer my extended family to prepair themselves as I do know a few neighbours I feel would be good to have 'on-side' if things get nasty.

TheSimpleton | 04-11-2007 11:28 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? I think the realization that your farm would be raided is exactly the reason you need to disperse the goods among as many neighbors as possible. That way SOMEBODY manages to keep a pair. As important, it will gavanize that you're all in this together. That's also why you shouldn't resist. You're less likely to get shot and can pick up with the neighbors with whatever's left. It's a time-honored tradition worldwide. I'm working on a thread regarding edible wilds. The problem is that it's extremely location and situation-specific. That's why I can't expand on it. I'd say "try acorns or cattails" only to hear, "what if they're not around? What if it isn't the season?" It's ALWAYS the season for something. There is no "growing season" for nature. Yes, dandilions and chickory are refrigerating neatly under the snow. Can't push aside a little snow when you're hungry? Now that's lazy. In addition, majors like cattails, arrowroot and lillies are available, along with hawthorns, roses, and apples. You'll have your choice of rabbits, squirrels, mice, ducks, turtles, frogs, fish, and deer. --I've been where a season's worth live within 30m of a mall. If you live in a different clime, there are different answers. TS

keehah | 04-11-2007 01:29 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by jerry http://goldismoney.info/forums/image...s/viewpost.gif [Looking for feedback] </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Gee...I guess we could tell our starving neighbors to just remove their clothing and shoes WTSHTF but that is a topic for another thread in the Faith and Religion Section.
Done! and Done! http://goldismoney.info/forums/t1256...breakfast.html

Anty Ep | 04-11-2007 03:20 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? It all depends on how bad TSHTF. If it were clearly transistory with no longterm effect, like Katrina, I would definitely help my neighbors without charge. Neighbors means, the 20 or so adjacent and nearly adjacent landowners. I would also sprinkle around some joy to the extended family, parish, etc. People outside that immediate physical community, would have to pay a reasonable fee for my assistance, but that's the case anyhow. I would probably follow the same pattern if it were a bad crisis that left state and local government intact. Now, if the SHTF like TEOWAWKI, like all three levels of government descend into chaos, like KOBK, forget about all that other stuff, and I'm going into warlord mode and will take anybody on my team any strong honest and reliable hands I deem worthy. But that is very very unlikely.

Slimer | 04-11-2007 04:32 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? I'm seeing too many of these poorly thought-out solutions: "I'll be a warlord/worshipped slavemaster" or "I'll leave the city and stockpile food and live off the land, shooting all tresspasers." History generally shows that no place is safe. Especially when you're alone. The most heinous, bloody robberies, murders, and rapings occur out in the boondocks when there's a disaster. There's no support structure. Ask anyone who survived the mess in Argentina. I remind you that all of the other "rugged" Americans are thinking the same thing, and that's a lot of lumpen armed militants to contend with. You're barking up the wrong tree.

DrillAndFill | 04-11-2007 04:45 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by Slimer (Post 569068) I'm seeing too many of these poorly thought-out solutions: "I'll be a warlord/worshipped slavemaster" or "I'll leave the city and stockpile food and live off the land, shooting all tresspasers." History generally shows that no place is safe. Especially when you're alone. The most heinous, bloody robberies, murders, and rapings occur out in the boondocks when there's a disaster. There's no support structure. Ask anyone who survived the mess in Argentina. I remind you that all of the other "rugged" Americans are thinking the same thing, and that's a lot of lumpen armed militants to contend with. You're barking up the wrong tree.
I usually avoid quoting whole posts, and I am on the record as encouraging interested individuals to become specialists in violence, and control hords of angry disaffected young men with appeals to race, creed, and a common enemy, but this is a really good post. Humans got where we are through division of labor and complex social structures. Taking your ball and going to the country is going to put you among some unstable characters who had the same idea long before you did, as well as meth-heads and other folks who just plain can't handle reality. Rural areas offer more direct access to some resources, but you are still going to need to play well with others, given that you can't perform an appendectomy on yourself or fix every piece of machinery you own. Focus not just on where you live, but on who you know. Avoid both law-school graduates and high-school dropouts -- I'm not talking about all law-school graduates or high-school dropouts, just those who (a) think they know much more than they do, and have survived on a fast mouth and nothing else, or (b) have never bothered to do anything or learn any skills. Adam Smith estimated in 1776 that 5000 people had participated in the manufacture of his overcoat. Think about it.

Veritas | 04-11-2007 04:52 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? I live next to a McDonald's and a Starbucks and my bank just sent me a brand new debit card! The swipey thing on the back of the last one was getting worn. With the unemployment checks being direct deposited into my bank account, what more survival preps do I need?? :sheep:

Anty Ep | 04-11-2007 05:36 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by Slimer (Post 569068) I'm seeing too many of these poorly thought-out solutions: ...History generally shows that no place is safe. Especially when you're alone. The most heinous, bloody robberies, murders, and rapings occur out in the boondocks when there's a disaster. There's no support structure. Ask anyone who survived the mess in Argentina. I remind you that all of the other "rugged" Americans are thinking the same thing, and that's a lot of lumpen armed militants to contend with. You're barking up the wrong tree.
You are right. That is why I have long practiced being a good neighbor and making myself useful to others. Plus a have a thing called "friends" and "family." I am not now nor have I ever been "alone."

Kahlil Gibran | 04-11-2007 05:48 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Slimer (Post 569068) I'm seeing too many of these poorly thought-out solutions: "I'll be a warlord/worshipped slavemaster" or "I'll leave the city and stockpile food and live off the land, shooting all tresspasers."
Attachment 26764 Rural is better than city. Friends and neighbors is better than solo. :bandito: bugging-out and being a refugee is the most vulnerable.

lynnda | 04-14-2007 05:28 PM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? My family is fortunate to live on a large property, in a real community. Not a town, but an area outside, town. We all come together in times of need. Everyone has at least 5 acres to several hundred. One neighbor is a beekeeper and two more have nurseries and the skills needed for gardening. A creek runs thru the heart and a river is 2 miles away. A doctor is also one of our community. Yes, I would share and get more back than I ever gave.

Veritas | 04-15-2007 03:09 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnda (Post 572702) My family is fortunate to live on a large property, in a real community. Not a town, but an area outside, town. We all come together in times of need. Everyone has at least 5 acres to several hundred. One neighbor is a beekeeper and two more have nurseries and the skills needed for gardening. A creek runs thru the heart and a river is 2 miles away. A doctor is also one of our community. Yes, I would share and get more back than I ever gave.
Are you Amish?

Unclad Lad | 04-16-2007 12:03 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? To misquote from Apocalypse Now, "Amish don't Surf!" :bear_grin:

Prometheus | 04-16-2007 01:42 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Double edged sword sharing... I'll have to trust that God tells me what to do and when. I'm fairly confident that I won't be feeding the neighborhood or taking them with me.

damoc | 04-16-2007 09:48 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? yes I think that is what will get us through. it wont be free but available they can always work for it most of my neighbors have something i could use such as cattle or sheep(real sheep).we are relatively isolated so dont expect to much problems from large groups of sheeple but if that does become a problem they may either be greeted with a meal and a shovel or a warning and shotgun just depends on circumstances.

Anty Ep | 04-16-2007 11:09 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? Quote:
Originally Posted by lynnda (Post 572702) My family is fortunate to live on a large property, in a real community. Not a town, but an area outside, town. We all come together in times of need. Everyone has at least 5 acres to several hundred. One neighbor is a beekeeper and two more have nurseries and the skills needed for gardening. A creek runs thru the heart and a river is 2 miles away. A doctor is also one of our community. Yes, I would share and get more back than I ever gave.
that's the right idea! then somebody watches your back while you sleep

Ash_Williams | 04-16-2007 11:38 AM
Re: Will You Be "Sharing" Your Survival Preps? I'll share my bullets freely, but keep the empty shells for myself. Other things can be traded. If someone has nothing, no skills even, that are valuable to anyone... too bad. They've been living on borrowed time. Charity is a way for the strongest hands to trick the strong hands into releasing what they have. I may not be able to take canned food from a smart person without giving up something valuable myself. But once that person gives the food to their nephew, I can trade something worthless for it, like tobacco.

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