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- - Window security (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=336250)

Ralleia | 01-03-2009 12:54 PM
Window security Quote from another thread: Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1492826) Postion large sofas and other items to barricade front of house(I have two big bay windows that scream break in)
Regarding the windows, essentially all modern U.S. houses have too much glass on the first floor to be defensible. I've thought about getting plywood sufficient to cover all the windows, but I'm also seriously considering a glass laminate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5XlhbFEMyY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5XlhbFEMyY

Tallships | 01-03-2009 12:57 PM
Re: Window security Looks expensive.

Ralleia | 01-03-2009 01:22 PM
Re: Window security It looks like 140 square feet of the just the DIY rolls is $440 (last April it was $400), and I'm pretty sure that this is only the series 100 stuff. I'm interested in series 300--bullet and blast resistance--figure that will also repel zombies. It would probably be quite expensive--and then the next weak link is the fact that wood frame and drywall is not bulletproof. It's a consideration though.

Zusn | 01-03-2009 02:07 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralleia (Post 1493108) It looks like 140 square feet of the just the DIY rolls is $440 (last April it was $400), and I'm pretty sure that this is only the series 100 stuff. I'm interested in series 300--bullet and blast resistance--figure that will also repel zombies. It would probably be quite expensive--and then the next weak link is the fact that wood frame and drywall is not bulletproof. It's a consideration though.
I've been interested in security films myself. Anything to make it harder for someone to get in. Where did you find this stuff for sale?

Squirrel Bait | 01-03-2009 02:30 PM
Re: Window security I don't know If I would spend too much on bullet proof glass when it's very easy to shoot through the walls right next to it. You are right though, most of our houses are not very defensible. s

californiaprospector | 01-03-2009 04:27 PM
Re: Window security If your home is in such a position as to "need" armor over its windows, I'd highly suggest your MOVE IMMEDIATELY. You should have your home with a "defensive zone" around it, which you control. In other words, "zombies" approaching are cut down by your gunfire before they make it anywhere near your home. If you're worried about distant rifle fire aimed your way, shots will likely go through your walls just as easily, so situate yourself so that you have a "gunfire proof" room below surface or in the center of the house, along with a quasi-armored "battery room" as high as possible for returning fire.

Twisted Avatar | 01-03-2009 04:34 PM
Re: Window security Cali speaks true......... I would only see about something like this if I had extra gravy money laying around (which most of us dont) Nice.........but not nessecary. T

Mill Man | 01-03-2009 04:44 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1493356) Cali speaks true......... I would only see about something like this if I had extra gravy money laying around (which most of us dont) Nice.........but not nessecary. T
Gotta agree as well. Its like buying the lexus but living in a trailer park. Take care of the more important stuff first then come back to the more specialized and pricier things. Plus, one big drawback I see with most of our homes is that no matter how beefy your doors are or how bullet and bomb proof your windows are, a simple molotov or just a pint of gas and a match can torch your house. Other than buying a brick house I haven't thought of any ways to protect against that scenario.

Twisted Avatar | 01-03-2009 04:49 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill Man (Post 1493377) Gotta agree as well. Its like buying the lexus but living in a trailer park. Take care of the more important stuff first then come back to the more specialized and pricier things. Plus, one big drawback I see with most of our homes is that no matter how beefy your doors are or how bullet and bomb proof your windows are, a simple molotov or just a pint of gas and a match can torch your house. Other than buying a brick house I haven't thought of any ways to protect against that scenario.
If they want in......... they will get in...........or turn that house into your funeral pyre. T

mayhem | 01-03-2009 04:52 PM
Re: Window security The heavy bullet proof stuff is expensive. People used it down here in Fla after Andrew. The problem is it makes the window frame the weakest point. So while the window won't break, the whole window may leave the frame as did here when Francis/Jeane/Wilma came through. I have metal hurricane panels that I will install leaving a 2 inch opening to see out of. That way no one can enter the window and I still have the ability to see.. That said the ladder right next to the house (allows roof access) for a good overall view. Now I have fenced off my 1.3 acres with a iron gate, motion sensors, and solar powered lights. That wont stop the zombies, but will slow them down long enough for us to get into a defensive position. Also stock up on sandbags. I don't have mine filled but I do have 200 of them.

Twisted Avatar | 01-03-2009 05:17 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem (Post 1493387) The heavy bullet proof stuff is expensive. People used it down here in Fla after Andrew. The problem is it makes the window frame the weakest point. So while the window won't break, the whole window may leave the frame as did here when Francis/Jeane/Wilma came through. I have metal hurricane panels that I will install leaving a 2 inch opening to see out of. That way no one can enter the window and I still have the ability to see.. That said the ladder right next to the house (allows roof access) for a good overall view. Now I have fenced off my 1.3 acres with a iron gate, motion sensors, and solar powered lights. That wont stop the zombies, but will slow them down long enough for us to get into a defensive position. Also stock up on sandbags. I don't have mine filled but I do have 200 of them.
SANDBAGS, SANDBAGS, SANDBAGS.......... JUST LIKE AMMO YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH!!! They are cheap, multi perpose, and have the abilty to stop many a bullet. Why you think they where so used throughout WWI and II or any major conflict for that matter? SANDBAGS = MASS AND MASS STOPS VELOCITY. T

Juristic Person | 01-03-2009 05:48 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1493420) SANDBAGS, SANDBAGS, SANDBAGS.......... JUST LIKE AMMO YOU CAN NEVER HAVE ENOUGH!!! They are cheap, multi perpose, and have the abilty to stop many a bullet. Why you think they where so used throughout WWI and II or any major conflict for that matter? SANDBAGS = MASS AND MASS STOPS VELOCITY. T
How high are you gonna stack those sandbags? .

Ralleia | 01-03-2009 07:19 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by Zusn (Post 1493174) I've been interested in security films myself. Anything to make it harder for someone to get in. Where did you find this stuff for sale?
Originally from the manufacturer (http://www.acesecuritylaminates.com/products.htm) but I think that has to be the basic film, which does nothing for security. I found better info (and the 9 mil series 200 film) at http://www.diywindowsecurity.com We plan to measure up our windows and see how much it would run to do our glass. The series 200 stuff just makes it very difficult to break in through the windows. We have alarms and a dog, but they don't buy you time. The film should provide more than enough time to get to the sidearms and shotguns. Our area is pretty safe, though we had one bizarre double murder here a couple years ago. If we were to actually build a house from scratch we we use insulated concrete forms, which make the walls relatively impervious to small arms fire. I suppose rammed earth structures might be similarly protective. I guess in the meantime it is time to stock up on sandbags like TA and mayhem suggest!

Twisted Avatar | 01-03-2009 07:24 PM
Re: Window security 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Juristic Person (Post 1493458) How high are you gonna stack those sandbags?
I will try my good sir :ok:

Farmgal | 01-03-2009 07:39 PM
Re: Window security What about window bars? Does anyone have any experience with them?

Juristic Person | 01-03-2009 09:59 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1493644) I will try my good sir :ok:
Dang...that's a lot of sand. .

Juristic Person | 01-03-2009 10:00 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmgal (Post 1493668) What about window bars? Does anyone have any experience with them?
It's not hard to shoot between them... .

mick silver | 01-03-2009 10:02 PM
Re: Window security if someone want your ass are the stuff in your house that bad , why not just light a fire an i bet your ass well run out

Ralleia | 01-03-2009 10:12 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by mick silver (Post 1493859) if someone want your ass are the stuff in your house that bad , why not just light a fire an i bet your ass well run out
Most burglers just want to get in, steal a few things, and get out. I believe that arson lands you in a completely different range of the misdemeanor/felony spectrum.

Vendico | 01-03-2009 10:13 PM
Re: Window security http://www.diywindowsecurity.com/

mick silver | 01-03-2009 10:17 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralleia (Post 1493877) Most burglers just want to get in, steal a few things, and get out. I believe that arson lands you in a completely different range of the misdemeanor/felony spectrum.
if some one shooting in my window there after more then what in my house

Ralleia | 01-03-2009 10:30 PM
Re: Window security I don't see your line of reasoning. I don't think that you have read the whole thread, and don't care to further discuss the non-constructive direction that you are trying to take it.

StrawMan=Corporation | 01-03-2009 10:39 PM
Re: Window security I did something rather controversial depending on your local area and in what surroundings you live.. Take the sandbag idea and Invert it. IE the soil protects so you put your home in the ground not stack up the ground around your home. Are any of ya following me here........ Quote:
Originally Posted by Juristic Person (Post 1493458) How high are you gonna stack those sandbags? .

ImaCannin | 01-03-2009 11:42 PM
Re: Window security We have thought about just buying plywood and cut it to size for each window. It will be installed inside the house, with a flat removable metal bar to hold it up. We will be able to drop the ply wood in or take it out easily. Will have to put a small wood lip about one inch in on the wood framed window. Then put the cut plywood in place and then the metal bar. The wood would go in front of the blinds. So when you are looking from the outside, it would not look like the window is blocked up. While this will not protect much from bullets, it might stop a can of tear gas, give warning if someone is breaking in. It will also block any light from getting out. During the night, you dont want to have light seeping out your window. It will also act as insulation. If you go to your window now, you can always fill a cold draft. By putting that one inch lip around your window and the plywood up to that, you have no seepage. While the metal bars across your window might look ugly as al gorey , it might protect you just a little or give that needed warning to get your AR15 and start blowing the heck out of your wall!

Juristic Person | 01-04-2009 02:47 AM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawMan=Corporation (Post 1493907) I did something rather controversial depending on your local area and in what surroundings you live.. Take the sandbag idea and Invert it. IE the soil protects so you put your home in the ground not stack up the ground around your home. Are any of ya following me here........
Go underground? Is that a medaphor? Just kidding, Strawman. Actaully, underground homes were a big idea back in the late 70's - early 80's and many homes in the northeast were built that way - for eco-environmental reasons. The idea was to have maximum sunlight exposure in the winter and preserve loss of heat. So many of these homes were built with the open side facing south. The north face basically just looked like a sloped roof. I like your idea though - it makes sense. Why build up instead of down? It's a nice idea if you don't care much for sunlight and you don't live in a floodzone. Out here in Arizona, it is too difficult (and expensive) to dig into the clay (which is why we don't have basements) but a lot of the wealthier folk have built their mansions into the sides of mountains. ...not a bad idea there either if you can afford it. .

StrawMan=Corporation | 01-04-2009 02:56 AM
Re: Window security Its easier to secure (if built correctly) and cheaper to heat and cool, Fire protection is a breaze if everything is below ground level. We (My female fiction mate) and I thinking about building a log cabin style dwelling above our present residence. She wants the sunlight and I like the idea of what looks like a normal residence AG (Above Ground). But it would have a dupe of whats below ground just for looks mainly with a way to get below if an emergency happened and button up. OH and leave no trace that there was a path to the residence below. There would be a cost for dupe systems and appliances etc. Quote:
Originally Posted by Juristic Person (Post 1494106) Go underground? Is that a metaphor? Just kidding, Strawman. Actually, underground homes were a big idea back in the late 70's - early 80's and many homes in the northeast were built that way - for eco-environmental reasons. The idea was to have maximum sunlight exposure in the winter and preserve loss of heat. So many of these homes were built with the open side facing south. The north face basically just looked like a sloped roof. I like your idea though - it makes sense. Why build up instead of down? It's a nice idea if you don't care much for sunlight and you don't live in a flood zone. Out here in Arizona, it is too difficult (and expensive) to dig into the clay (which is why we don't have basements) but a lot of the wealthier folk have built their mansions into the sides of mountains. ...not a bad idea there either if you can afford it. .

Juristic Person | 01-04-2009 03:04 AM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawMan=Corporation (Post 1494111) Its easier to secure (if built correctly) and cheaper to heat and cool. We (My female fiction mate) and I thinking about building a log cabin style dwelling above our present residence. She wants the sunlight and I like the idea of what looks like a normal residence AG (Above Ground). But it would have a dupe of whats below ground just for looks mainly with a way to get below if an emergency happened and button up. OH and leave no trace that there was a path to the residence below. There would be a cost for dupe systems and appliances etc.
That's not a bad idea but you've got me wondering a few things. When you say you want to leave no trace of a path to the residence below, who are you trying to hide it from? Everyone in general? Intruders (burglars)? Government? Do you pay taxes on the property now? Does the state know there is a dwelling underground? City or municipality utilites? Electricity? I think it would be hard to hide completely undetected but it sounds like a nice bug out location - and safe from your intruders/looters/etc.. Just curious, who built the place underground? I find that amazing. .

Ralleia | 01-04-2009 03:46 AM
Re: Window security Have you guys read "The $50 and Up Underground House Book?" The website that talks about it is at http://www.undergroundhousing.com/ http://www.undergroundhousing.com/im...HB_LRG.JPG.jpg I bought it a few years back--very interesting reading. And your female fiction mate can have her sunlight with a celestory (sp?) or sun tunnels.

Bill843 | 01-04-2009 08:35 AM
Re: Window security If I was "improving security" of my windows myself, I would probably just add an inner extra pane of a sheet of 1/2" thick acrylic. The acrylic can be broken through, but not easily or quietly. -end-

StrawMan=Corporation | 01-04-2009 04:27 PM
Re: Window security Thanks for that. But I have a feeling it would be cheaper and more secure to build a log cabin on top of our current structure. Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralleia (Post 1494141) Have you guys read "The $50 and Up Underground House Book?" The website that talks about it is at http://www.undergroundhousing.com/ I bought it a few years back--very interesting reading. And your female fiction mate can have her sunlight with a celestory (sp?) or sun tunnels.
In keeping with the topic of window security, Here is something I saw at Jim Rawles survival blog.... http://www.survivalblog.com/ Quote:
Mr. Rawles, Many years ago when I worked in security we use to install security window laminates to the inside of high-risk structures. This laminate bonds to the glass and works much like the laminated windshield in a car. It is virtually invisible once installed but can repel ferocious attacks. We used the products on retail stores and high-end homes that didn't want security bars or shutters due to aesthetic reasons. The other nice part of these products are they are always protecting you. You don't need to shut them like window shutters and they aren't ugly like bars. They are also very deceptive to intruders who think the window will be an easy entry point only to find that they can't get through it with a baseball bat and crowbar. It also provides minor ballistic protection and protection against blast by limiting glass shrapnel. There are sites that can install it professionally or do-it-yourself (DIY). Here are some: http://www.diywindowsecurity.com/ http://www.shattergard.com/home.html http://www.armorcoatfilms.com/ http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/WF/3MWindowFilms/ Here is a demo of a DIY window film installation. Here is another demo of a different product under more severe conditions. These products work well on annealed glass (typical glass that breaks into sharp shards when broken). For use on tempered glass (which is usually a sliding glass door, as required by most building codes), you will need to do a special install to anchor the film to the frame with a specialized caulking. These products work very well as an alternative to more conventional window protection. - Craig R.

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bigdaddy40 | 01-07-2009 02:48 AM
Re: Window security http://www.roll-a-way.com/products/products.html

i love gold nyc | 01-07-2009 04:37 PM
Re: Window security Have you guys considered bars? If you are worried about the look, take a look at stainless steel, they look much nicer than black or white cast iron bars. I recently installed stainless steel bars on my ground floor and 1st floor windows. Additionally, steel gates in the front and the back. I'd go as far as adding electricity to the gates, but I'm not sure thats allowed in nyc.

Ralleia | 01-07-2009 05:07 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddy40 (Post 1499333) http://www.roll-a-way.com/products/products.html
I looked into the rolling shutters, but they don't install well on existing houses. Like most things it's better planned into the design. We lived in West Germany for nine years and absolutely loved the rolladens. http://www.furniturefromgermany.com/..._shutters.html http://www.furniturefromgermany.com/...ow_closeup.jpg Regarding the bars that's the last option I would consider at this point. The bars I think are the most unsightly and do nothing to protect against flying glass. I live in a tornado-prone area, so it'll either be window-film or an external shutter for me.

SLV>GLD | 01-07-2009 05:23 PM
Re: Window security Back to the sand ideas; I wonder how much compression a column of sand between wall studs makes on the drywall? Seems it would work doubly as insulation and bullet proofing assuming the drywall did not bust from the weight. You had better hope you don't have to do any work in those walls once installed, though.

Ralleia | 01-07-2009 05:36 PM
Re: Window security I don't think anyone was calling for replacing the insulation with sand. Sand won't be a terrific insulation because it leaves little space for air. Plus, I could see it blowing out the drywall for sure--you get a triangular load pattern with fluids--I think you could treat sand as column of fluid in this case. The drywall would blow out at the bottom. The idea was to stack the sandbags outside your house--maybe some inside as well at strategic points.

SLV>GLD | 01-07-2009 08:52 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralleia (Post 1500634) I don't think anyone was calling for replacing the insulation with sand.
Nope, my own rumination. The conversation was certainly headed towards the fact that bullet proof glass is a very confined amount of protection and that sand makes excellent protection. My nudge to the conversation's direction was to state that sand could be placed in the walls while bullet proof glass was used for windows. If the window framing was reinforced to withstand blasts from high powered rifles bouncing off the glass I'd say the sand impregnated walls would be the final touch. I'm thinking that while this design deserves to live in fantasy land it could be accomplished. I'd utlize masonry block for at least the lower third of the wall with durrock as the surface to finish and doubled or tripled drywall layers to contain the upper two-thirds. In reality, the best case would be cinder block the full height of the wall with sand filling the cavities and layered drywall for a pleasing surface of finish.

i love gold nyc | 01-07-2009 11:01 PM
Re: Window security How about steel plates within the walls?

CAVU | 01-07-2009 11:37 PM
Re: Window security Sounds like you are looking for something that will help keep out flying objects from tornados or a burglar break in. I am looking at putting in some of the laminate windows, these are pretty good from this company and look like normal windows. They are Impact resistant. http://www.pgtindustries.com/Pages/Main.aspx?PageID=96 They also have Impact resistant glass doors as well. They claim people have had nothing happen to them in recent hurricanes and that one person claimed a burglar tried to break thier window with a concrete block and couldnt do it so gave up.

TTAZZMAN | 01-08-2009 01:18 AM
Re: Window security http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm on this site are tests of several calibers of bullets ...vs ..steel door...sand bags...sheet rock walls.....plywood...etc.. its a very fun site

perl | 01-08-2009 01:24 AM
Re: Window security Just build walls with Insulated Concrete Forms (ICF) 8" thick reinforced concrete works well to stop most things, is energy efficient, quiet and can take winds more than 250mph. http://www.icf-dev.com/Gallery/

TTAZZMAN | 01-08-2009 10:17 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by perl (Post 1501351) Just build walls with Insulated Concrete Forms (ICF) 8" thick reinforced concrete works well to stop most things, is energy efficient, quiet and can take winds more than 250mph. http://www.icf-dev.com/Gallery/
the next home i build will be using ICF,s ......energy effecient....tornado proof...bullett proof...sound absorbing...fire retardant....

Ralleia | 01-08-2009 11:20 PM
Re: Window security I've heard to make sure that you get "hurricane clips?" to hold the roof on in the event of a tornado strike as well. No use for the walls to be proof if the roof gets torn off. Also consider a metal roof--Lasttime roof was one that I was considering. Good for energy-efficiency, hail resistance, and FIREPROOF!!!

eCONoMISSED | 01-10-2009 07:01 AM
Re: Window security I looked into security film a couple of years ago only to discover that they don't sell the good stuff to DIYers -- you have to have it installed by an authorized agent. I forget the company I was looking at -- believe they were based in the U.K. Glass windows are the weakest security link of my house since its made with streel re-inforced concrete cinder block. Plus I live in earthquake land and figured the film would help minimize the glass hazard in a big quake -- a friend of mine was almost decapitated by a sheet of falling glass in the Northridge quake.

Nighthawk | 01-10-2009 08:25 AM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1503027) the next home i build will be using ICF,s ......energy effecient....tornado proof...bullett proof...sound absorbing...fire retardant....
have a balcony for gunners and cannons too. And a mote and drawbridge. In all seriousness, you're right on.

shinylid | 01-10-2009 10:23 PM
Re: Window security Ever see the movie "I Am Legend"? He had a cool setup.

Saul Mine | 01-11-2009 02:25 AM
Re: Window security http://www.rolladen.com/ Plywood has no class. Sandbags and machine guns are even worse. If things get that bad you should already have moved to some other area.

SLV>GLD | 01-11-2009 12:02 PM
Re: Window security Nice link, Saul. Do you have any clue to their pricing structure? You can get a "free" estimate by providing all your contact info on a convenient little form... no thanks.

TTAZZMAN | 01-11-2009 05:32 PM
Re: Window security Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralleia (Post 1503103) I've heard to make sure that you get "hurricane clips?" to hold the roof on in the event of a tornado strike as well. No use for the walls to be proof if the roof gets torn off. Also consider a metal roof--Lasttime roof was one that I was considering. Good for energy-efficiency, hail resistance, and FIREPROOF!!!
I am planning on useing Hollow Core Concrete slabs for structure with a metal or clay tile roof on top

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