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shades2 | 11-11-2007 09:11 AM
Backpacks Just picked up one of these this morning at the local swap market:- http://enit100-sp212.t02.enitiative.com.au/%28nxpouou0r5mka355q5rmek55%29/Site/538.asp?a=a&PageCode=COMM%2DL5&DeptId=21060&Cluste rId=21060 It's an Auspack, with Auscam camo. Cost me $15, which was a pretty good deal, had to do some minor repairs to it, but it's all ship-shape now. Should be good for a trip out to the bush. Already packed some clothes in it. My hydration kit will fit into the top part of the pack, but I'm still working out the optimum way to pack the thing. I'd like to get a sleeping bag and possibly a tent in there too. Also picked up an as new keyboard for $3. Ah.. the markets.. always good deals...

REV127 | 11-11-2007 10:45 AM
Re: Backpacks There's some good, cheap Euro surplus out there for sure. I'm a fan of German and Russian gear myself, most of it is rugged and practical. I actually prefer a soft sided pack for loads under 30lbs or so, here's my favorite. http://www.majorsurplus.com/German-R...-P1754C15.aspx

RiverRat | 11-11-2007 11:21 AM
Re: Backpacks :rolleyes_m: Good show...looks like you got a super deal. I abandoned the idea of a using anything but a huge internal capacity external frame pack for a last resort bug out backpack for numerous reasons. In a real SHTF situation you need a genuine four season tent...not a flimsy summer camping tent. It took me a while to find a 3 person expedition grade tent that weighed less than 8 pounds. I have a Wenger and a Marmot Thor tent,both are fantastic,lightweight,and tough. By the time you pack enough food,cookware,clothes,water,a sleeping bag,and essential emergency items into a backpack to last you for 2 weeks you'll be in the 80 pound range of weight...but you'll definitely be armed,dangerous,and prepared to survive well in a harsh winter environment if necessary in semi luxury. :>) My wife can handle 60 pounds in her backpack for hours on end so between the two of us we can survive for a month easily with just our bug out packs if TSHTF and we had to get off the highways and go walkabout :>) I hope we never have to do that since my bug out property is a hundred miles from home base...but we could walk it in 7 days if we had to. Good luck...your situation may be different than mine. Some people would only need three days worth of bug out gear. :rolleyes_m::rolleyes_m::rolleyes_m:

shades2 | 11-11-2007 12:06 PM
Re: Backpacks Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 824912) :rolleyes_m: Good show...looks like you got a super deal. I abandoned the idea of a using anything but a huge internal capacity external frame pack for a last resort bug out backpack for numerous reasons. In a real SHTF situation you need a genuine four season tent...not a flimsy summer camping tent. It took me a while to find a 3 person expedition grade tent that weighed less than 8 pounds. I have a Wenger and a Marmot Thor tent,both are fantastic,lightweight,and tough. By the time you pack enough food,cookware,clothes,water,a sleeping bag,and essential emergency items into a backpack to last you for 2 weeks you'll be in the 80 pound range of weight...but you'll definitely be armed,dangerous,and prepared to survive well in a harsh winter environment if necessary in semi luxury. :>) My wife can handle 60 pounds in her backpack for hours on end so between the two of us we can survive for a month easily with just our bug out packs if TSHTF and we had to get off the highways and go walkabout :>) I hope we never have to do that since my bug out property is a hundred miles from home base...but we could walk it in 7 days if we had to. Good luck...your situation may be different than mine. Some people would only need three days worth of bug out gear. :rolleyes_m::rolleyes_m::rolleyes_m:
This pack is just for recreational use mainly, perhaps hunting too. The Auspack is not really that well liked by the army who prefer proper frames, (the Auspack has unusual hard foam inserts) although they are a bit upset lately as I believe the latest frames they received are now back to steel instead of aluminium, with a slight weight increase. My ultimate pack will be a large Alice pack with frame. We don't have harsh winters as such, but minus 8-10 celcius is achievable, and people often don't realise how cold it can get in the desert, if I choose to go there. I don't really have anyone else to worry about, so a 3 person tent is overkill for me at least. One thing to keep in mind with a tent, is that the bigger it is inside, the longer it takes to warm up from your body heat. A decent sleeping bag to handle down to -5 or -10 celcius. Obviously if packing for weeks, you're right, the pack will weigh a lot. I'm in the process of planning my own ration packs of sorts, as it's a lot harder to buy them here, not much demand from civilians, go figure. I would probably head south in an emergency, as there are fresh water sources there, grasslands, and plenty of native game which are great eating if you know how. North also offers fresh water, but is a harsher environment, plenty of snakes, insects, crocodiles and sharks up there. East is just desert, and although I like the desert, and believe I could survive out there indefinately, it would be no fun at all, and is certainly poor pickings compared to available bug out areas.

RiverRat | 11-11-2007 12:51 PM
Re: Backpacks :rolleyes_m:Prepare for the worst and the unlikely scenario you can never go back home is my motto. That tends to up the anty considerably when it comes to long term survival. If I were alone I could survive with a good hunting knife if nothing else were available. Women,especially wives,complicate matters tremendously. I used to teach covert survival training many years ago in the military and the crap you see on TV with those macho survivalist types would punch your clock permanently in two days flat if you followed their example. Yeah...go with the Alice pack...good,strong equipment. Also it is mandatory you pack survival foods high in saturated fat for living off the land for extended periods. Fresh game is too lean and fish is so low in fat your body will cannibalize itself internally to regulate your metabolism...without fat in your diet you die a slow,sure death while eating lean meat and fish like a pig. The average weekend warrior thinks he can grab a dozen MRE's and take nature on with a flashlight and a pocketful of matches. He will die very quickly cut off from civilization because he is an idiot. Be a survivor...all it takes is planning and a little knowledge. :rolleyes_m::rolleyes_m::rolleyes_m:

money matters | 11-11-2007 03:02 PM
Re: Backpacks Backpacks are good organizational tools. Bugging out on foot? Not worth the risk. Of course, maybe it is your only option? An external frame pack with Good waistbelt and strap suspension can make all the difference. I have carried 80lb loads on mountain trails originating from 8000 feet and going to 12K elevation. Easy? Hardly, but not bad; definitely manageable. Main thing is to be able to cinch the waistbelt so it takes the weight. Nice to be on a trail, too. The NorthFace VE25 is about the best 4 season tent ever designed and it is under 8lbs. If you think about backpacks as gear organizers, and your vehicle as bug-out transport, you can avoid the trying to do it all from one backpack plan which is doomed to failure. Think of being able to cache gear and move loads to your bugged out location with backpacks. Gets you off the roads, and in a few hours you can have your gear half a mile from your vehicle. Of course, if you reconnoiter your area, looking for dirt trail/roads and have chains for your vehicle, you can go just about anywhere. Chains will slog through mud better than any 4x4 can. Trying to live out of a backpack is like riding a motorcycle with ice on the road; you stand very little chance of success if any little thing goes wrong. Things have already "gone wrong", if you are bugging out with a backpack. That said, having a great many for daily use makes great sense. Daypacks, internal frames, and externals all have their place. Find some junkers at the thrift shop, because they make great conveyances for fish and meat; if you don't worry about getting them sloppy. Plastic bags are always worth having along to minimize the guts factor.

RiverRat | 11-11-2007 03:41 PM
Re: Backpacks :rolleyes_m: Posted by money matters: Quote:
If you think about backpacks as gear organizers, and your vehicle as bug-out transport, you can avoid the trying to do it all from one backpack plan which is doomed to failure.
True..if that were possible. No fuel,roving gangs setting up roadblocks,desperate criminal types with 4X4 transportation among other problems,are more than a possibility. I once spent a month in the Adirondacks alone with nothing but a well provisioned external frame backpack and covered 5 miles a day easily through heavily forested terrain. I gained three pounds that month and doomed to failure was never on my agenda. I can't speak for the average Joe,but twenty years of hunting in desolate locations during winter conditions for weeks at a time and living out of a backpack is more than possible if you have the knowledge and physical stamina to survive in the wild. Martial law is always a possibility barring all vehicles from road travel. You sound like a survivor MM...we both agree 80 lbs is not that bad for the average man if he is an experienced backpacker :>) Yeah...that North Face tent is awesome...I got a deal on my Marmot Thor and it's never failed me...even a small alcohol cooking stove heats that puppy up quick. Let's hope none of us see the day it's backpacks or certain death. That would be very bad... :rolleyes_m::rolleyes_m::rolleyes_m:

REV127 | 11-11-2007 06:45 PM
Re: Backpacks Quote:
Originally Posted by gasilat (Post 825265) i ended up dropping weight out of my pack due to a knee injury, that as i get older likes to remind me thats it there...particularly going downhill...no way could i shock load that joint with the pounding of a heavy pack...but around 25 pounds everything seems right with the world... my point in all this is people really need to establish their own personal limitations by field experience carrying their packs before the emergency arrives...they may find they bit off more than they can chew and they might need an alternative plan such as you mentioned... flatland hiking on an established trail is way different than going up and down mountains with just game trails to follow...folks need to consider the terrain they most likely will be encountering as well... ....
That's more or less my take as well. Sure, I can move a lot of weight with a frame pack if I have to but I don't think it's a good idea as a matter of course. You can only do it for so long till it starts catching up with you, the problems usually surface later in life. Not worth it to me. I always keep my total load under 1/3 my weight, preferably under 1/4. When it starts looking like I'll need more gear than that I do what every primitive tribesman knows to do, use something else to carry the weight. A travois is probably the easiest and simplest but anything from a garden cart to a pack animal to a bike and more are all viable alternatives. Why lug it around when you can roll it? Even dragging it on a sledge is easier. You'll move faster, further and burn less calories while doing less to wear yourself down. Getting the weight off your body also means you won't suffer as much injury if you were to fall. Thinking about pack frames, one nice thing I really do appreciate about an external frame is it lets your back breathe so it helps keep you cool. The main reason I like soft packs for lighter loads is I rarely start off anywhere wit a full pack, I always leave space for things I might want to aquire along the way. Consequently the shape of my pack is always changing. If I need to store it in a locker, vehicle, hideyhole or wherever it's often easier than with a frame. Once you realize that a rifle, ammo and armor can very easily run to 40lbs without even getting into things like water, shelter, food and tools it becomes more apparent that you really just can't reasonably carry everything you need on your back. You either can save weight by not taking needful things with you or you can find other ways to carry gear.

TheSimpleton | 11-13-2007 01:28 PM
Re: Backpacks Good catch! Anyone have reviews on CFP90 pack? Also fond of this one: http://www.backcountryedge.com/kelty...utm_medium=cpc Kelty frame pack for hunting pack-out, but the bag is removable as a ruck. Ideas? TS

REV127 | 11-13-2007 11:13 PM
Re: Backpacks That's similar to how the German pack I like works. There is a sleeping pad that goes along with it but it doesn't roll, it folds. You put the folded sleeping pad in a large pocket against the back wall for support and to keep hard things or sharp corners off you.

melbo | 11-13-2007 11:22 PM
Re: Backpacks I like Kifaru and have a lot of their gear. http://www.kifaru.net/MGpacks.htm I have a Navigator and a sh**load of accessories. This guy used to be involved with mountainsmith and then branched out on his own. All US made and backed for life. Never had a problem with anything.

electric-amish | 11-13-2007 11:35 PM
Re: Backpacks I have an REI internal frame pack that can handle probeblt 60 lbs. I'm not set up for three days but a little longer with my pack. I keep all bug out equip except tent and sleeping bag in or on it. That said I need a Mummy Bag that is LARGE and LIGHT WEIGHT if someone knows where to get extended sizes. These Guys have some Serious equipment--Heated tents also--www.kifaru.net. E-A

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