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- - WTSHTF ...moral dilema (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=214185)

jaima | 12-19-2007 08:22 PM
WTSHTF ...moral dilema If and when TSHTF where do you feel obligated to be? For any Policeman, Doctors, Nurses, Fireman and other vital workers who will be desperately needed on the job. Will you go to work or stay home with your family?

Kahlil Gibran | 12-19-2007 08:28 PM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 882816) If and when TSHTF where do you feel obligated to be? For any Policeman, Doctors, Nurses, Fireman and other vital workers who will be desperately needed on the job. Will you go to work or stay home with your family?
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iV6RO2OwbqQ&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iV6RO2OwbqQ&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> During Katrina many of the Cops were looting: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/29/nop...ing/index.html

REV127 | 12-19-2007 09:53 PM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema As a farmer civilization itself is dependent upon me and others like me. In the event of SHTF I suppose I will keep producing food.

Unclad Lad | 12-21-2007 02:21 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema The real question is, if you have a duty to be someplace--whether it is leading your troops or being at the Kwik-E-Mart counter--at what point on the SHTF continuum do you leave your post to attend to family and/or personal survival instead?

skirnir | 12-21-2007 02:26 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema There is no duty except that to one to whom you have given one's word, and to one's self. All other requests citing 'obligation' are nonsense. I am very sparing with promises, though if dad buys gold and silver like I advised him to (at risk of my not helping if he loses his pension), I'll have to help out with a bit of remittance if need be...

RiverRat | 12-21-2007 03:32 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema :rolleyes_m: Where is the moral conundrum ? Your primary obligation is to survive at all costs and protect your family. A job is just a freaking job. Your employer,public or private,has no concern for your welfare or safety. I have a hard time understanding people with an overpowering obsession to go to work and do their little duties leaving their family open to attack or looting in a SHTF scenario. If your sense of moral duty is that obsessive you need a long vacation in the nearest mental facility inside a rubber room...or you don't need a wife or family to depend on you for guidance and protection. Moral duty to what ? A freaking police state ? :bear_w00t::bear_w00t::bear_w00t: Get a clue...you are expendable amigo...

GOLDDIVERS | 12-21-2007 04:05 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema Ill tell ya River Rat, your spot on again as usual. You have the most common sense of anyone here . (AR- cheap amo, parts everywhere, easy to use etc),:wink: I say the moral dilemna will solve itself, play it by ear, stay on your toes and make the call when its time. You dont owe anyone anything--- Eventually you will have to make a choice . But dont choose because of the Corporation . Win win situation , Make Your Own Decisions...

walker10 | 12-21-2007 05:56 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema It depends on the nature of the emergency. If the emergency is such that my wife and family will be safe, then as an electrical worker, I think going to work would be the thing to do because if the electric grid fails, then we will desend into chaos. If society is to continue on then it is vital that at least certain workers be able to keep vital services going. If everyone stays home or at their BO locations, how will we dig ourselves out from whatever the SHTF situation is?

Silver Spoon | 12-21-2007 06:57 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 884680) :rolleyes_m: Where is the moral conundrum ? Your primary obligation is to survive at all costs and protect your family. A job is just a freaking job. Your employer,public or private,has no concern for your welfare or safety. I have a hard time understanding people with an overpowering obsession to go to work and do their little duties leaving their family open to attack or looting in a SHTF scenario. If your sense of moral duty is that obsessive you need a long vacation in the nearest mental facility inside a rubber room...or you don't need a wife or family to depend on you for guidance and protection. Moral duty to what ? A freaking police state ? :bear_w00t::bear_w00t::bear_w00t: Get a clue...you are expendable amigo...
I believe that during the early stages of the Falkland war some dude was walking in a half crouch between Argentinians and Pommies shooting at each other with a white flag over his head. Some squadie shouted at him asking what he was doing. He replied he was off to work. :confused_ma: FWIW - I certainly won't be turning up for duty. Me and mine comes first thank you very much

AKBill | 12-21-2007 07:26 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema I am a reserve state peace officer I made an oath and will make sure my family is safe and then report to my unit and do what is expected of me up and until they start doing shit that is a violation of the constitution then I guess my guys will be coming after me

Kahlil Gibran | 12-21-2007 07:40 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 884680) Moral duty to what ?
Attachment 38218 :smokin: To protect and serve Dunkin' Donuts in the event of a terrorist attack. Secure the infrastructure of Law Enforcement first. Here's a First Responder.

jaima | 12-21-2007 08:02 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema Jeez, you guys. Its not about the owing the system anything. Its about vulnerable people left alone. My Hospital will be full of sick Patients. Who will care for them if no shows up? One of those sick people could be you or your loved ones. I think it would depend on the nature of the situation. If there was any danger to my family and I was needed at home that is where I would be. My kids are grown and if things are OK at home I would probably head to the Hospital. What would have happened to the Patients in those Hospitals in New Orleans if the staff had abandoned them?

shades2 | 12-21-2007 08:14 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema As a survivalist, you must help yourself before helping others, otherwise you will be ineffectual in helping anyone else. This pertains to any survival scenario. Do not rush in.

Ghost Recon | 12-21-2007 08:26 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema I used to work in a server room in the downtown area of a major city. This server room is essentially a key part of this countries infrastructure. In a shtf situation, it would be dangerous to be down there. Unarmed Pinkerton guards and badge-swipe doors that fail open in a power outage? No thanks. And I told them about the doors but they figured the bad guys would never make it up to our floor. I said BS. Oh yeah...at night we had one unarmed guard and a ton of plate glass on the first floor and frequently I was in there by myself. So it would be just me and one unarmed guard to take them all on. So one day I get this email. They wanted me to fill out my address and phone number and other info and send it back. At the top it said something to the effect that in a shtf situation, they would send someone out to my house and drive me into work. I never returned it but they already knew my address and phone number any way. I figured if that day ever came I would park my car behind my neighbors house and not go in....

RiverRat | 12-21-2007 09:10 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema :rolleyes_m: OK...so shoot me...I'm a hard core survivalist. I can see some of you are still addicted to the party line delusion of duty before family. Nobel in theory,but insanity in a SHTF world of unpredictable urban chaos where armed mobs and gangs are roaming your neighborhood at will while you're playing good Samaritan. Unless your wife and kids are SWAT qualified with weapons and capable of defending your castle until you punch out for the day and grab a few burgers for supper on the way home ... I think they would last about an hour tops when the lid blows off. Coming home to find your family dead will be all the consolation you need after you bury them in the backyard. Keep telling yourself they died for a good cause...and respected your moral duty to report for work and protect and help your fellow man instead of them. Cool...they're dead. Pat yourself on the back for a job well done. :applause_:applause_:applause_ I might be killed protecting my family,but you can bet the bodies will be stacked up three deep around the old bunker when the smoke clears. Being a former LEO I have no illusions of the military saving my A$$. You will simply be outgunned by sheer numbers... Spend a Friday or Saturday night down at the local jail as the LEOs drop off the scum balls,crackheads,and gang bangers. These people are your local neighbors...then tell me you'd leave your family at their mercy while you're at work. The LEOs here know what I'm referring to...the rest of you need to walk on the wild side for a couple of days. :D:D:D The Thin Blue Line is not a joke.

REV127 | 12-21-2007 10:04 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 884758) Jeez, you guys. Its not about the owing the system anything. Its about vulnerable people left alone. My Hospital will be full of sick Patients. Who will care for them if no shows up? One of those sick people could be you or your loved ones. I think it would depend on the nature of the situation. If there was any danger to my family and I was needed at home that is where I would be. My kids are grown and if things are OK at home I would probably head to the Hospital. What would have happened to the Patients in those Hospitals in New Orleans if the staff had abandoned them?
That's basically what I meant by what I said. I don't have any exmployer except myself but I do have a useful civilization building skill and people will starve without food. I'm not sure exactly what you do at the hospital but it sounds like you have some skill as a healer. Whether my farm or your hospital emerges intact doesn't matter and its very hard to know exactly how everything might go down but if we do survive whatever catastrophe may or may not be in the future we can still render our services to a greater good. Who we are is what we do, not who we work for. Once you've got that figured out the rest kind of falls in place. I'll keep working my farm for as long as is reasonable but if it comes down to dying futily here or feeding marauders then I'll pack up some seeds and tools and leave because I can do more good elsewhere. I do agree with RiverRat's first post on general principle though, there is no loyalty owed to the disloyal. You can't break an oath to an individual or institution that has no honor.

Squirrel Bait | 12-21-2007 10:51 AM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 882816) If and when TSHTF where do you feel obligated to be? For any Policeman, Doctors, Nurses, Fireman and other vital workers who will be desperately needed on the job. Will you go to work or stay home with your family?
Jaima, There are a lot of unknown variables in what you've said. Let's assume your family is "safe" and you decided to go to the Hospital. How far is it? Do you have a running car? Once you get there will they let you leave? If your safe family gets into trouble can they call you on your cellphone? LOL Can you rush to help them? You must take care of your family first. Trust me, if you are a Doc or a Nurse and TSHTF you will probably find lots of work in your neighborhood. If martial law goes into effect, it will, "they" can whisk you away as a vital resource anywhere they want. So be very careful. I understand the moral dilemma. SB

GoldWampum | 12-21-2007 12:52 PM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema I will know when it's time to stay with the family. It's not a difficult question. As long as I survive, they come first.

drewfu | 12-21-2007 12:57 PM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema The spirit of this thread is not off the mark... How quickly will you pull the trigger on another human? Who will you shoot first when the SHTF?

Argentsum | 12-21-2007 01:54 PM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema If there is no longer a ruling authority to turn to, then you are the ruling authority insofar as your ability to maintain that authority. What's the dilema? I'm serious, is this a trick question?

buff01 | 12-21-2007 01:58 PM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema My only obligation will be to defend myself and my family from enemies domestic.

Jonas Parker | 12-21-2007 02:03 PM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema Since our plans are to "bug-in" in our small town, I'm not worried about my wife (all the kids are gone) being home with a dog, handgun, shotgun, 2 rifles, and a retired Marine Sgt. Maj. next door. I was a paramedic and an orthopaedic technician, and even though I'm confined to a wheelchair, I still have the ability to treat patients if the healthcare system collapses (which I believe it will). I'll probably either head to the local clinic or set upshop in my living room and help out folks who need the medical care that's within my level of training to provide.

REV127 | 12-21-2007 02:08 PM
Re: WTSHTF ...moral dilema Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 885151) The spirit of this thread is not off the mark... How quickly will you pull the trigger on another human? Who will you shoot first when the SHTF?
and that is an important thing to consider. Another question would be how quickly will you reach out and embrace another human? Who will be the first person you hug when SHTF? Remember, you can't hug your children with fire-arms!

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