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- - Elbow Room (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=204808)

REV127 | 11-26-2007 12:12 PM
Elbow Room 1 Attachment(s) It's hard to find any elbow room these days, ever notice that? Since the 1970's there has been a 50%+ increase in population from just over 200 million to well over 300 million. More than 100 million more people within the same borders. Over the next 30 years we can expect another 100 million new bodies in America. In fact thanks to illegal immigration we've already outpaced population growth estimates from the 90's. http://www.census.gov/population/www...e/natproj.html All this probably doesn't mean a whole lot to the old guys who won't be here in twenty years but for those who still have another half century in them it's pretty significant. Of course the demographics are changing, too. Whites will be 53% or so of the population in 2050, most of the slack being taken up by Hispanics and Asians. All in all nearly half the population will be of races different from that of the founders of this nation and therefore will carry with them a certain degree of different cultural values either because they are recent immigrants or through family tradition. That will have a significant impact on the course American culture and politics take. It will be a whole nother world. So where do you go? Look at the attached picture, it's been around a while. Anywhere that isn't lit up like a Christmas tree is nuclear test sites or nuclear silo sites, not very appealing. At first glance Alaska looks like an option but then you have to consider it is right along the invasion path, be it military or just immigration, of a resource-starved China. Of course a huge portion of it is also federal land and you have to weigh how you feel about living in HAARP territory. If half the stories they say about that are true you probably want to be as far away as possible for your own health but it's also a likely military target if allegations about its use in weather modification are true. Without HAARP you still have the oil fields to contend with, if recent history has shown anything it is that they are prime targets for invasion. Northern Canada looks ok, but that's where the boomers hang out and again who wants to be caught in the middle of an exchange between nuclear powers? Keep in mind that map will be increasingly out of date as the years go by, as well. Start filling in more dark spots with bright lights. Actually that pic was taken a decade ago when America's population was reckonned to be 10% smaller than it is today. You just can't find any elbow room like you used to anymore. Looks like the only real options are going to be either space colonization or the open ocean. Either that or pick a patch of dirt and try to hold it.

shades2 | 11-26-2007 12:27 PM
Re: Elbow Room I saw a mainstream magazine article on the problem of human population growth. This will become the biggest issue of our time. Mass die-offs and resource wars are a certainty at this rate. Think of clean water as a resource for example... As humans who have empathy for each other, in order to reduce needless potential death and suffering, we need to try and prevent this continued population explosion, not encourage it.

RealityCheck | 11-26-2007 12:29 PM
Re: Elbow Room Whats wrong with missle silos? I would love to own one of the refinished ones. Too bad I can't afford it. :D

chewy | 11-26-2007 12:54 PM
Re: Elbow Room This is old hat. Right out of Tavistock and Rockefeller. I'll say this, I know a lot of you believe this psycho shit right down to your bones. But the amount you believe it is the amount you have bought the lie. I'll put it in capitols. THE PROBLEM IS NOT OVER POPULATION. THE PROBLEM IS NOT LACK OF FOOD. THE PROBLEM IS NOT LACK OF TECHNOLOGY. The problem is ethical and moral and management skill, as in LACK OF ALL THREE. The government pays farmers not to grow food in the USA! There is plenty of food, there is plenty of land to grow food, there is plenty of technology to feed everyone. Why isn't it being used is the question. But the lies sound so good, they should, they've been taught for 100 years now in every school in the USA. They're a part of you now. This overpopulation lie and the controlled media preparation of the public for genocide is psychotic. The elite's best answer is too kill off 5/6 th's of the Earths people? Is that sane? Do you agree with it? If you do.... buddy, you better check your head! You're agreeing with a muderous psychotic lie.

REV127 | 11-26-2007 01:22 PM
Re: Elbow Room Genocide isn't a factor in what I'm talking about. I'm just looking at raw numbers. There is less and less space as there are more and more people. I got two feet of rain one night last year. It was an abberation, it usually isn't quite that bad, but two feet! We average five to six feet of rain per year. That's a lot of water. Our aquifers are being drunk dry. With the right technology and the right culture you could support very high population levels and be ok. The technology currently exists, I make use of as much of it as I can. The cultural aspect will never be in place, with or without TPTB. Eventually a massive die-off through resource wars, starvation and disease will hit, without TPTB. I don't favor any genocide plan but it's a red herring issue anyway. Look at it from the other perspective even, what is so good about having 12 billion people instead of six billion? Now consider that of the current 6.6 billion people, only a little over 1 billion of them are from the developed world. By 2050 at 12 billion total population 10 billion of those will belong to the developing world that is already showing cracks in its ability to support its current population levels. Where do you think the surplus six billion will go when there is nothing for them to eat, nowhere to work and nowhere to live? Sure, lots will die off, hundreds of millions probably. At least as many will be camping out in your back yard, litterally or figuratively. There just isn't plenty of space and we'll be hitting realistic carrying capaccity very soon. I've already taken what reasonable steps I can. I own and run a scrap of land capable of supporting myself and my descendants indefinately for as long as we can hold onto it. Paying farmers not to grow food sounds really significant at first blush, on closer examination it shows a different story. The farmers are paid not to farm as part of a price fixing scheme I don't agree with. So what happens if they did farm it? Sounds like a food surplus, doesn't it? Maybe, short term. Do you know how many acres of arable land are destroyed every year by modern farming practices? Destroyed as in, they won't be able to farm it again on a scale large enough to support our current producer/consumer model for decades or longer. Even if you let that genie out of the bottle you've done nothing to forestall the inevitable. There is no up side to exponential population growth. There is really nowhere left to go anymore to just be left alone.

Mastro | 11-26-2007 01:46 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 846252) All this probably doesn't mean a whole lot to the old guys who won't be here in twenty years but for those who still have another half century in them it's pretty significant. Of course the demographics are changing, too. Whites will be 53% or so of the population in 2050, most of the slack being taken up by Hispanics and Asians. All in all nearly half the population will be of races different from that of the founders of this nation and therefore will carry with them a certain degree of different cultural values either because they are recent immigrants or through family tradition. That will have a significant impact on the course American culture and politics take. It will be a whole nother world.
Haven't you listened to Ulesslys, culture is over rated.:sarc: Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 846252) So where do you go? Look at the attached picture, it's been around a while. Anywhere that isn't lit up like a Christmas tree is nuclear test sites or nuclear silo sites, not very appealing. At first glance Alaska looks like an option but then you have to consider it is right along the invasion path, be it military or just immigration, of a resource-starved China. Of course a huge portion of it is also federal land and you have to weigh how you feel about living in HAARP territory. If half the stories they say about that are true you probably want to be as far away as possible for your own health but it's also a likely military target if allegations about its use in weather modification are true. Without HAARP you still have the oil fields to contend with, if recent history has shown anything it is that they are prime targets for invasion. Northern Canada looks ok, but that's where the boomers hang out and again who wants to be caught in the middle of an exchange between nuclear powers? Keep in mind that map will be increasingly out of date as the years go by, as well. Start filling in more dark spots with bright lights. Actually that pic was taken a decade ago when America's population was reckonned to be 10% smaller than it is today.
Got any good links on this topic.

Ulysses | 11-26-2007 01:49 PM
Re: Elbow Room Only enough courage to talk smack behind people's back, huh Mastro? That's what I figured you for.

Anty Ep | 11-26-2007 01:51 PM
Re: Elbow Room in large areas of america there is plenty of elbow room, if you dont mind living far from cities. that involves major inconvenience though since most nonagricultural occupations are people related. in europe they know cities are important, which is why they shove the immigrants out to "les banlieus" while the real frenchmen do their best to retain control of urban areas. we got it backasswards in the usa where the glorious "suburbs" are concerned. anyhow the topic is a very serious question. read more here http://www.carryingcapacity.org/

Krugerrand | 11-26-2007 02:02 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 846330) There is really nowhere left to go anymore to just be left alone.
That is what is most obvious... possible future food and resource shortages aside. Just the fact that there are so many people around you all the time. The town I live in was nothing but fruit orchards just 10 years ago, with some groupings of houses and a few grocery stores and churches here and there. Now it has exploded with growth, and of course we have the obligatory Borders/Mervyn's/Target groupings on every corner, now. I'll not drive past a particular part of town for a week or two, and the next time I do, three new large stores are there. Traffic is getting to be horrendous both down town and in the more open parts of town during business rush hours. It's just amazing to me to watch it go from fruit orchards and houses to everytown USA with a Starbucks on every corner in such an amazingly short time. I came here from a city much closer to or within in the bay area, so it still feels spacious and slow-paced compared to that, but it's hardly the refuge it once was. Seems growth like this is happening all over the place. The rest of the world is getting lit up, too: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0208...hts02_dmsp.jpg Sahara desert is looking pretty scarce, people-wise. :bear_w00t: Greenland if you like ice in your drinks.

Mastro | 11-26-2007 02:02 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysses (Post 846366) Only enough courage to talk smack behind people's back, huh Mastro? That's what I figured you for.
How is that talking "smack", that is what you think.

REV127 | 11-26-2007 02:11 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 846380) in large areas of america there is plenty of elbow room, if you dont mind living far from cities. that involves major inconvenience though since most nonagricultural occupations are people related. in europe they know cities are important, which is why they shove the immigrants out to "les banlieus" while the real frenchmen do their best to retain control of urban areas. we got it backasswards in the usa where the glorious "suburbs" are concerned. anyhow the topic is a very serious question. read more here http://www.carryingcapacity.org/
Interesting link. The thing is that "plenty of room" is deceptive. It only looks like plenty of room, for now. Even at the momment it is within easy access of anybody who has a $500 car or some time on their hands. As the NAFTA superhighway nears completion, well... stick a fork in it, it's done. Most of this land is full of missile silos anyway, prime nuclear targets when TPTB get froggy. It'll be interesting to see how Europe plays out. How are the French securing their food supplies for urban areas when the countryside is full of non-French?

REV127 | 11-26-2007 02:19 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Krugerrand (Post 846394) Sahara desert is looking pretty scarce, people-wise. :bear_w00t: Greenland if you like ice in your drinks.
Greenland looks real interesting. I'm not a Scandanavian but I have Nordic heritage so I appreciate a lot of their cultural background. Unfortunately most of the interior is volcanic wasteland from what I hear. Despite their Viking heritage they have no capacity to defend themselves and traditionally Greenland has been a staging area for European/North American conflicts. Australia would seem to be a likely candidate if it weren't for their sellout leadership and screwy gun laws. With a clear route of invasion from Asia I don't think they'll fare too well as the population nears 10 billion. Antarctica has some promise. It is heavily politicized but is so inhospitable it is still sparsely inhabbitted. Inhospitable in general will be a plus in the future, provided you understand how to live in such an environment. That's been my family's secret to survival for millenia. Anyway Antarctica is a little more friendly to life than outter space so it might be worth a look.

Anty Ep | 11-26-2007 02:19 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 846401) It'll be interesting to see how Europe plays out. How are the French securing their food supplies for urban areas when the countryside is full of non-French?
the countryside isnt. most of the immigrants -- at least the non-assimalable ones-- are in les banlieus, the suburbs, which form a ring around megapolises like Paris or Marseille. By unassimilables I mean recent African immigrants and especially African Muslims. firstly. Secondly, a less obnoxious and unruly group, but unassimilable nonetheless, Asian Muslims, such as Arab Muslims, but including various mystery specimens from hither and yon.. the country side is and has been mostly populated by French. still is as far as I know. I figure if the SHTF in Europe, what will happen is basically something like Jugoslavia, ethnic cleansing. They will cut off the freebies and also put the immigrants on boats and unleash a bunch of massacres to send them packing. This has not happened yet, for the most part-- although the nineties saw lots of quiet simultaneous government action and complementary thug events that both pushed the same ways. But over all, the European reaktion against globalism started when Jugoslavia blew apart and it is just a slow fuse ticking since then, gathering steam here and there. The plebiscites against the EU constitution were strong messages in this direction too. The continuing electoral success of BNP, NPD, and FN speak to thousands of people especially in cities, ready and willing to step into government and do what it takes to reclaim Europe for its indigenous population. The French were even willing to elect the son of a Hungarian immigrant and a Jewess from Greece because he was willing to open the can of whupass on the migrants. Think about that one. I guess they figured where immigrants and such are concerned, takes one to know one. LOL

Anty Ep | 11-26-2007 02:27 PM
Re: Elbow Room i would add that in spain the lebensraum situation is bad getting worse too. though the system addles the wits of the younguns with constant booze and discoes and screwing type culture 24/7, the place is filling up with african immigrants that were not to be seen anywere fifteen years ago. the old pensioners moan and groan and cry for Franco but the younguns-- few in number,-- are mostly too drunk to give a crap about anything. one downside of authoritarian regimes is the people lose their capacity for self control. once Franco's restrictions were lifted the whole place eventually went ga-ga for typical European hedonism.

Kahlil Gibran | 11-26-2007 02:27 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 846412) The French were even willing to elect the son of a Hungarian immigrant and a Jewess from Greece because he was willing to open the can of whupass on the migrants. Think about that one. I guess they figured where immigrants and such are concerned, takes one to know one. LOL
Is he going to model his new population control on Gaza or the West Bank? :smokin:

mtnman | 11-26-2007 02:37 PM
Re: Elbow Room Africa....just have to kick out the indigenius tribes.

REV127 | 11-26-2007 02:38 PM
Re: Elbow Room So the French essentially have them surrounded then? I've heard of the zones but haven't seen them for myself. I'm suprised by what you had to say about Spain. Whether it is PC or not I can say from personal experience that in general terms Latins have a low tolerance for Africans of any origin. Latin gangs will listen to rap and emulate other aspects of Black gang culture but the rivalry between the two is legendary and is quite clearly racial in origin. I wonder if it has anything to do with the Moorish occupation? Perhaps not, the Moors of antiquity were a dark race and black Africans were among them but they were not a predominantly black people. Balkanization, in several accepted or implied meanings of the term, would seem to be the wave of the future. Europe will like errupt into an ethnic bloodbath sometime this century. Nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.

REV127 | 11-26-2007 02:43 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 846433) Africa....just have to kick out the indigenius tribes.
No need. Africa is set to be depopulated via disease by the end of this century. Several African nations have formally declared they are going extinct due to AIDS. I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't take most of the rest of the world's black population with them. Even as we speak Africans of means are escaping Africa to predominantly black colonies in the Carribean and US to get away from AIDS. Unfortunately many of them are already carriers and it quickly spreads. A similar phenomena is sweeping through the Latin immigrant community but currently their replacement level is higher than their attrition. As I said, mass die-off from disease is inevitable. The end of this century will be ugly and I will live to see quite a lot of it.

Kahlil Gibran | 11-26-2007 02:53 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 846448) No need. Africa is set to be depopulated via disease by the end of this century. Several African nations have formally declared they are going extinct due to AIDS. I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't take most of the rest of the world's black population with them. Even as we speak Africans of means are escaping Africa to predominantly black colonies in the Carribean and US to get away from AIDS. Unfortunately many of them are already carriers and it quickly spreads. A similar phenomena is sweeping through the Latin immigrant community but currently their replacement level is higher than their attrition. As I said, mass die-off from disease is inevitable. The end of this century will be ugly and I will live to see quite a lot of it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...501677_pf.html http://www.reuters.com/article/oddly...rpc=22&sp=true :smokin: Confirmation

Anty Ep | 11-26-2007 02:54 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 846434) So the French essentially have them surrounded then? I've heard of the zones but haven't seen them for myself. I'm suprised by what you had to say about Spain. Whether it is PC or not I can say from personal experience that in general terms Latins have a low tolerance for Africans of any origin. .
this is true what you say but the country is simply being innundated with them and the government is doing what it can to use ships to ward them off. here are a few articles. but untill they cut off the welfare the problem will persist. here is an article from 05 for example about kicking a few out, then another from 06 about ten per hour boating in. Quote:
Spain starts deporting immigrants from enclave 73 men from Mali sent back to Morocco after trying to enter Melilla <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=624 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 15px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 25px" vAlign=top width="1%">http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/C...med_12p.h2.jpg Anton Meres / Reuters An African man is held after trying to cross into Spain's north African enclave of Ceuta on Thursday. Spain's Deputy Prime Minister Maria Teresa Fernandez de la Vega, left, said Spain will begin sending migrants back to Africa on boats Thursday night. </TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px; PADDING-LEFT: 15px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 25px" vAlign=top><SCRIPT>getCSS("3053751")</SCRIPT><LINK href="/default.ashx/id/3053751/" type=text/css rel=stylesheet><SCRIPT></SCRIPT><TABLE class=boxH_3053751 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=152><TBODY><TR><TD class=boxHI_3053751 width="1%">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/images/icons/slideshow.gif</TD><TD class=boxHC_3053751 noWrap width=*>Slide show </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=boxB_3053751 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=152><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD> http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/j/msnbc/C...ase.vsmall.jpg <INPUT class="mbox w77" onmouseover="swapbtn(this, 1)" title=Launch onclick="javascript:SSOpen('9618613','0');" onmouseout="swapbtn(this, 0)" type=button value=Launch> </TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=boxBI_3053751> Desperate immigrants Repeated rushes by African immigrants on Spanish outposts along the Moroccan border have been violent and deadly. Click "Launch" to view the photographs. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <SCRIPT>getCSS("3053751")</SCRIPT> ................<SCRIPT language=JavaScript>var tcdacmd="dt";</SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript src="http://an.tacoda.net/an/13015/slf.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript src="http://anrtx.tacoda.net/rtx/r.js?cmd=WDN&si=13015&v=3.7&cb=0.8059726506163956" ></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript src="http://anrtx.tacoda.net/opt/r.js"></SCRIPT> http://msnbcmedia1.msn.com/i/msnbc/C...s/sourceAP.gif updated 1:08 p.m. ET, Fri., Oct. 7, 2005<SCRIPT language=javascript> function UpdateTimeStamp(pdt) { var n = document.getElementById("udtD"); if(pdt != '' && n && window.DateTime) { var dt = new DateTime(); pdt = dt.T2D(pdt); if(dt.GetTZ(pdt)) {n.innerHTML = dt.D2S(pdt,((''.toLowerCase()=='false')?false:true ));} } } UpdateTimeStamp('632643017350900000');</SCRIPT> MELILLA, Spain - Dozens of African illegal immigrants who charged across the border into the Spanish enclave of Melilla were deported to Morocco after a week of deadly clashes, officials said Friday. The 73 men from Mali were handcuffed and flown Thursday evening from Melilla to Algeciras, on the Spanish mainland, where they were they put aboard a ferry bound for the Moroccan city of Tangiers, a police spokesman in Algeciras said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of department policy. There were no plans for more deportations Friday, he said. They were the first group of immigrants to be expelled after Spanish authorities announced Wednesday that they would send back Africans who made it from Morocco to Melilla, located on Morocco�s northern coast.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...Y_ISLANDS_.asp

Anty Ep | 11-26-2007 02:55 PM
Re: Elbow Room see the biscuit? thats why they come. until the europeans start sinking their boats with gun fire it will continue Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>248 immigrants arrive in 24 hours by boat to Spain's Canary Islands </TD></TR><TR><TD>AP Sunday, July 23, 2006 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> MADRID, Spain (AP) - Spain said Saturday that its coast guard had intercepted four boats within 24 hours carrying 248 would-be immigrants from West Africa as they arrived in the Canary Islands, and had sighted another. A boat with 90 people aboard arrived at Tenerife while another carrying 61 reached La Gomera on Saturday, and on Friday two other boats from West Africa arrived at Gran Canaria - one with 53 people on board, and the other carrying 44 survivors and one dead man, the Interior Ministry said. A fifth boat had been spotted heading for Gran Canaria. Some of the migrants were suffering from dehydration or hypothermia, and 12 were taken to a hospital, the spokeswoman said. <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width=330 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...ISLANDS__1.jpg</TD></TR><TR><TD>A would-be immigrant eats a biscuit in Los Cristianos on the Canary island of Tenerife, Spain yesterday after a boat arrived with 90 immigrants. On Friday, another boat carrying 44 would-be immigrants arrived with one person dead and several sick. The Spanish government says more than 11,000 Africans from some of the poorest countries have made the journey to the Canary Islands so far this year, more than double the number for all of 2005. More than 1,000 are reported to have died attempting the voyage since late last year. (Photo: AP) </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Anty Ep | 11-26-2007 02:56 PM
Re: Elbow Room this is what the book "camp of the saints" was about, by jean raspail. buy it if you havent read it yet, gripping read, and prophetic Amazon.com: The Camp of the Saints: Books: Jean Raspail Amazon

Anty Ep | 11-26-2007 03:02 PM
Re: Elbow Room kg funny you mention gaza, as it is out of israeli control now both in terms of not being occupied, and not under control of the corrupt PLO. it is also very densely populated here's a list from wiki by density http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lation_density here a website says Gaza is NOT the most densely populated place, though some israelis say it is. who knows? http://blog.camera.org/archives/2005...on_gaza_p.html

Anty Ep | 11-26-2007 03:38 PM
Re: Elbow Room ah speak of the devils. or should I say valued participants in French "egalite, liberte, et fraternite." what a joke http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071126/..._violence_dc_4 http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/2...scbJB3KZsAPQ-- Quote:
Second night of disturbances in Paris suburb <!-- END HEADLINE --> <!-- BEGIN STORY BODY -->By Brian Rohan 46 minutes ago French police fired tear gas on Monday evening during running battles with rioters in a suburb north of Paris where two youths died after a crash involving a police car. During a second night of disturbances some 100 riot police came under attack in Villiers-le-Bel from large fire crackers. They replied with tear gas, rubber bullets and paint guns designed to identify troublemakers, a Reuters witness said. A car, a garbage truck and a police vehicle were set on fire. The violence revived memories of the 2005 riots in France's poor, often ethnically diverse, housing estates when thousands of cars were torched after two teenagers were electrocuted after apparently fleeing police. Extra police had been drafted into the suburb on Monday in case of a repeat of Sunday's disturbances when 28 cars and five buildings were torched, including a police station. Twenty-six police and fire officers were hurt. Nine people were arrested on Sunday. Police have launched an investigation into the accident at the weekend involving a police car and a motorcycle, driven by two youths aged 15 and 16. Police say the motorcycle was stolen and the youths ignored traffic regulations. The investigation will focus on whether the two officers helped the dying youths. Relatives and locals complained the police fled the scene after the incident. President Nicolas Sarkozy was interior minister in 2005 and he took a tough line with the rioters which critics said helped stoke the violence. On Monday, the head of state called for calm. "I call on everyone to calm down and let the justice system decide who was responsible," Sarkozy told reporters during an official visit to Beijing. POLICE PROBE Local public prosecutor Marie-Therese de Givry told LCI television the crash investigator's preliminary findings showed the youngsters had turned into the path of the police vehicle. "The mini-moto was in third gear, which means it was going at top speed," she said. "That's what the expert report says, which confirms the statement by the driver of the police vehicle as well as that of two witnesses." The officers had immediately called the emergency services. Tapes of the calls and subsequent radio traffic were being studied to see if police followed the correct procedures, she said. Local inhabitants of the Villiers-le-Bel estate contested that version of events. "That they say it was an accident, when they ran away, -- ran away, I say -- that's unacceptable for those who represent the law," Slimane Erraji, uncle of one of the dead, told LCI. Calbo, a local resident, told reporters the youths were struck from behind. "They saw they were in pain, they didn't help. "The police tried to drive off by starting their car. They couldn't start their car because it was damaged, so they ran away." The local mayor Didier Vaillant also called for calm. "I'm appealing to all inhabitants, and notably young people, so that we can get back to calm in our town," he told i-Tele television. (Additional reporting by Laurent Hamaide in Paris and Emmanuel Jarry in Beijing; Writing by Jon Boyle; Editing by Robert Woodward)

Anty Ep | 11-26-2007 03:40 PM
Re: Elbow Room Send them in to sort this out http://legion-etrangere.wifeo.com/images/22.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_dsc06878.jpg

Anty Ep | 11-26-2007 03:44 PM
Re: Elbow Room who has made up most of the staff of the French Foreign legion? Quote:
<TABLE class="wikitable sortable" id=sortable_table_id_0 style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><TBODY><TR class=even><TH>Rang http://fr.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/co.../sort_none.gif</TH><TH>Nationalit� http://fr.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/co.../sort_none.gif</TH><TH>Effectifs http://fr.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/co.../sort_none.gif</TH></TR><TR class=odd><TD>1</TD><TD>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ermany.svg.png Allemands</TD><TD bgColor=#ffd700>210000</TD></TR><TR class=even><TD>2</TD><TD>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Italy.svg.png Italiens</TD><TD bgColor=#faf0e6>60000</TD></TR><TR class=odd><TD>3</TD><TD>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...elgium.svg.png Belges</TD><TD bgColor=#dfdfdf>50000</TD></TR><TR class=even><TD>4</TD><TD>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...France.svg.png Fran�ais</TD><TD bgColor=#dfdfdf>50000</TD></TR><TR class=odd><TD>5</TD><TD>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Spain.svg.png Espagnols</TD><TD bgColor=#66cccc>40000</TD></TR><TR class=even><TD>6</TD><TD>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...erland.svg.png Suisses</TD><TD bgColor=#80ffff>30000</TD></TR><TR class=odd><TD>7</TD><TD>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Poland.svg.png Polonais</TD><TD bgColor=#e5ffff>10000</TD></TR><TR class=even><TD>8</TD><TD>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Russia.svg.png Russes</TD><TD>6000</TD></TR><TR class=odd><TD>9</TD><TD>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ustria.svg.png Autrichiens</TD><TD>5000</TD></TR><TR class=even><TD>10</TD><TD>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ungary.svg.png Hongrois</TD><TD>4000</TD></TR><TR class=odd><TD>11</TD><TD>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Greece.svg.png Grecs</TD><TD>4000</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
You know why Germans are premier right? lol. Send em in.

Unclad Lad | 11-27-2007 01:23 AM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
All in all nearly half the population will be of races different from that of the founders of this nation and therefore will carry with them a certain degree of different cultural values either because they are recent immigrants or through family tradition. That will have a significant impact on the course American culture and politics take. It will be a whole nother world.
Rev, I don't know if 95% of the folks even here on GIM would be considered by the Founders the share their cultural values, as much as we might want to emulate them. Some of the changes have been good ones. You might be recognizable to them, and Tn Andy, but not most of us city dwellers. The trouble isn't immigration, but assimilation. Look at the new Louisiana governor--the first in many decades--and he's Indian. But he bleeds red, white, and blue--he's dived into the American dream. The problem is we've stopped trying to make newcomers into Americans.

Ulysses | 11-27-2007 02:46 AM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 847312) Rev, I don't know if 95% of the folks even here on GIM would be considered by the Founders the share their cultural values, as much as we might want to emulate them. Some of the changes have been good ones. You might be recognizable to them, and Tn Andy, but not most of us city dwellers. The trouble isn't immigration, but assimilation. Look at the new Louisiana governor--the first in many decades--and he's Indian. But he bleeds red, white, and blue--he's dived into the American dream. The problem is we've stopped trying to make newcomers into Americans.
Good points.

Wyldwil | 11-27-2007 08:11 AM
Re: Elbow Room Sad thing is, there is absolutely NO hope for change. It's like a runaway train. People think that it's their birthright to have children. Some have double digits. :confused_ma: It's all ego...... ....like humans will be screwed if your lame-ass DNA doesn't continue on.

Kahlil Gibran | 11-27-2007 08:17 AM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyldwil (Post 847478) ....like humans will be screwed if your lame-ass DNA doesn't continue on.
The very meaning and purpose of Life. :smokin: duh

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shades2 | 11-27-2007 08:38 AM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyldwil (Post 847478) Sad thing is, there is absolutely NO hope for change. It's like a runaway train. People think that it's their birthright to have children. Some have double digits. :confused_ma: It's all ego...... ....like humans will be screwed if your lame-ass DNA doesn't continue on.
In third-world nations, large families have been a key to success for the poorest, in fact due to the high death rate of newborns in the third world, the number of births has always been high. However, with better health standards, availability of food etc. more children have survived to adulthood, and the population explosion has resulted. Having many sons has almost always equated to wealth, as these children are meant to look after you in your old age. (Remember, no welfare), and sons can perform hard physical work better than daughters. China has managed to curb it's population explosion due to the one child policy, but that policy exists in the cities, if you live in the country you are allowed to have as many as you like apparently. The tragic result of this policy however has led to abortions and killing of female babies, as people prefer a son to a daughter. China has a major imbalance of males to females, not to mention men from the West seeking the most beautiful Chinese girls to marry. India, Africa, SE Asia, South America, Indonesia and other nations are still out of control, in regards to population growth. Only Western nations have shown a decline in birthrates. In Africa of course, AIDS is carving a swathe through many populations, due to poor sexual health knowledge of STDs and practice. Millions upon millions will die from AIDS. Passing on your DNA is not really an ego thing, it is a survival instinct thing. If you feel you have good traits and are a healthy human, you will seek to pass on your genetic code through sex. There is nothing wrong with this, every other able-bodied creature on the planet does it, and it improves all species, it doesn't weaken them. The weak and stupid will never breed, and will be doing everyone a favour by not doing so. The human race is not going to collapse in a heap because some people are fatalistic morons who believe unstoppable Global Warming is going to kill us , or a myriad of other reasons for not having a family. Survival as a species is our birthright, we are the top predator and thinker on the planet, despite the incredibly stupid things we manage to do we still do some incredibly great things. It may sound wierd but it is in fact our duty to our species to reproduce. If you don't feel that way, then don't breed, no-one is forcing you. Everything in our genetic code is designed to allow us to survive to make little copies of ourselves, that is our natural purpose, and there is no sense denying it, or trying to thwart what we were designed to do.

Maddie | 11-27-2007 09:05 AM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 847484) The very meaning and purpose of Life. :smokin: duh
Yes, but we've overwhelmed the natural controls on population growth. We have few predators, we've fought down or controlled many diseases that in past times wiped out large numbers of people, the weak and lame don't usually starve, etc. Most apex predators also rely on social systems in which primarily it's primarily the dominant males' genes that get into the gene pool (which maybe just enough sneaking around behind his back to keep the pool genetically diversified). Keeping one's genes in the gene pool has always been the meaning and purpose of life, but procreation was usually the privilege of the fittest, or, at least, for males it was. Now, everyone dives right in.

Anty Ep | 11-27-2007 09:11 AM
Re: Elbow Room With all due respect, who is "we." I have very little "we" with the denizens of third world slums. I dont feel a shade of guilt or embarassment at saying that, only a sense of profound thankfulness to my ancestors. In all sincerity, the world's best populations, in IQ terms, are reproducing at lower and lower rates, and the worst ones are breeding like rabbits. That is a bad situation and if people in the "developed world" dont develop a sense of what is good for us then we will be increasingly screwed. http://www.pubpol.duke.edu/centers/h...ges/kibera.jpg Quote:
From Africa Recovery, Vol.17 #3 (October 2003), page 24 African slums on the rise If no serious action is taken, the world's 1 billion slum dwellers will likely double in number within 30 years, predicts the UN Human Settlements Programme (UN Habitat). The agency's report, The Challenge of Slums: Global Report on Human Settlements 2003, notes that while slums exist in all parts of the world, they are concentrated in developing countries. An estimated 50 per cent of slum dwellers are in South-Central and Eastern Asia, 14 per cent in Latin America and 17 per cent in sub-Saharan Africa. "The proportion in Africa is rising rapidly as populations increase and urban housing shortages continue, while it is falling in Latin America due to regularization and slum improvement," the study notes. The average proportion of city dwellers living in slums in developing countries is 43 per cent, UN Habitat reports, but for sub-Saharan Africa the proportion is "an alarming 72 per cent." Slums often lack basic services such as water and sanitation, have inadequate and unsafe building structures and are overcrowded. The report urges local and national governments and the international community to take action against poverty, the underlying cause of slum proliferation.

Kahlil Gibran | 11-27-2007 09:17 AM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 847544) Yes, but we've overwhelmed the natural controls on population growth. We have few predators, we've fought down or controlled many diseases that in past times wiped out large numbers of people, the weak and lame don't usually starve, etc. Most apex predators also rely on social systems in which primarily it's primarily the dominant males' genes that get into the gene pool (which maybe just enough sneaking around behind his back to keep the pool genetically diversified). Keeping one's genes in the gene pool has always been the meaning and purpose of life, but procreation was usually the privilege of the fittest, or, at least, for males it was. Now, everyone dives right in.
I think this recent political correctness "Equality" affirmative action stuff will be a blip in the history books. No man really understands Women but females are very very good instinctively at mating with the alpha male. Once this present economy collapses and the welfare evaporates we will see mostly the less-fit in the Great Die-Off. Even now many older single "career" women know they blew it. :smokin: women understand this better then men

REV127 | 11-27-2007 11:58 AM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 847312) Rev, I don't know if 95% of the folks even here on GIM would be considered by the Founders the share their cultural values, as much as we might want to emulate them. Some of the changes have been good ones. You might be recognizable to them, and Tn Andy, but not most of us city dwellers. The trouble isn't immigration, but assimilation. Look at the new Louisiana governor--the first in many decades--and he's Indian. But he bleeds red, white, and blue--he's dived into the American dream. The problem is we've stopped trying to make newcomers into Americans.
It isn't a "racism" thing that I'm talking about, just change. About half of the once hugely dominant White population leans socialist which is in complete opposition to every principle of the Founders. The other rough have leans "conservative" but in this day and age that doesn't necessarily equate to Constitutionalist. People who actively and steadfastly support those views are a smaller chunk of the conservative group. Assimilation and cultural values are the largest factor in having a stable society. As we take on more and more people who are eiter accustomed to life under a socialist regime or those who are just looking for a handout the liberal/socialist pile grows. The only force that counteracts this is the fact that socialism doesn't work and isn't half as fun in real life as it is in some people's imagination so there will always be a certain number of left leaners and sleepers that reject it. At any rate demographic change necessarily means cultural change in practical reality. All change isn't necessarily bad but as a rule societies degenerate. I'm not that old but I have a memory that goes back further than the last football game and the contrast between the America of the 80's and the America of the 21st century is like night and day. We've lost a whole lot more freedom than I think most people are aware of and we've all been wearing chains for a long time now. If we were mostly getting immigrants who wanted to be free then there would almost certainly be a net benefit. Unfortunately the trend right now is for immigrants who want it easy. That may mean wellfare or that may just mean a paycheck and a few luxories but either way they are accustomed to and willing to accept less freedom. City dwellers would be a lot better off if they unplugged the teevee, that's for sure... and somebody at some point needs to do something about those cameras.

AMforPM | 11-27-2007 10:45 PM
Re: Elbow Room I noticed when I was first flying coast to coast in the late 70s... day or night never out of sight of roads or lights. Sure we can carry this many if we do it sensibly, and keep forests, the lungs of the earth, and the sea, the rest of the lungs going. I have read that we are already living on about 2/3 the oxygen concentration of ancient man, as if at very high altitude. We have not reached the limit, but there is one. In the 70s the future looked to me as a choice between limiting population growth till we could terraform and colonize other planets, or a die off, natural or unnatural. I thought population control and an active space program the best option, along with keeping the planetary lungs working. Exactly where that line between 'standing room only, most die' and 'fine, everybody can have decent lives' is I do not know. But there is one.

shades2 | 11-28-2007 08:41 AM
Re: Elbow Room Well, unfortunately for us, nature has a way of taking care of systems that get out of balance, despite the fact an organism can decieve itself and its own kind into thinking everything is fine. Nature is not decieved, most resources are finite. Systems out of balance are naturally corrected, which to us seems harsh, to the Universe there is no emotion involved, it's simple mathematics and a zero sum game. Solar power generation, wind, nuclear, desalination etc. are the only way the human race can continue on this path for a while, and that only solves one problem, not the food issue, and multitude of other resource problems that arise when a population has grown too large.

Unclad Lad | 11-28-2007 12:11 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
It isn't a "racism" thing that I'm talking about, just change. About half of the once hugely dominant White population leans socialist which is in complete opposition to every principle of the Founders. The other rough half leans "conservative" but in this day and age that doesn't necessarily equate to Constitutionalist.
Ah. I misunderstood. It wouldn't be the first time someone here made racial connotations. And I do agree with what you say above. Quote:
If we were mostly getting immigrants who wanted to be free then there would almost certainly be a net benefit. Unfortunately the trend right now is for immigrants who want it easy. That may mean wellfare or that may just mean a paycheck and a few luxories but either way they are accustomed to and willing to accept less freedom.
The problem is not of immigrants hoping for a cushy way of life; most immigrants come with the idea that if they work their fingers to the bone, they'll be able to save, buy a house, and get ahead--which is not possible where they come from. The problem is when they get here and see so many of us "born and bred" Americans living off the dole, and doing so at a higher standard of living than they could have ever achieved working at home. Our welfare system is only surpassed by Britain's. :bear_angry:

REV127 | 11-28-2007 12:58 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 849621) The problem is not of immigrants hoping for a cushy way of life; most immigrants come with the idea that if they work their fingers to the bone, they'll be able to save, buy a house, and get ahead--which is not possible where they come from. The problem is when they get here and see so many of us "born and bred" Americans living off the dole, and doing so at a higher standard of living than they could have ever achieved working at home. Our welfare system is only surpassed by Britain's. :bear_angry:
The welfare state has got to go, no question about it. I won't begrudge a lawful immigrant who makes a holy fortune by just meeting the bare minimum standards of performance. Working yourself to the bone for pennies isn't a requirement. My concern is that the emphasis is not on freedom, just economics. If they're invested in the federal reserve note but not American freedom then you're either getting a lot more neutrals or individuals who either accept or desire unconstitutional changes to American society. That has a net deleterious effect which can be added to homegrown socialism, fascism, etc. If we were mostly getting immigrants who came here to be free it would be a different story. I see this as another case of the myth of the worker hero illegal immigrant. They aren't here to be free, they're just here to make money with no real investment in the existing American culture and heritage of freedom.

Mastro | 11-28-2007 01:16 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 849677) The welfare state has got to go, no question about it. I won't begrudge a lawful immigrant who makes a holy fortune by just meeting the bare minimum standards of performance. Working yourself to the bone for pennies isn't a requirement. My concern is that the emphasis is not on freedom, just economics. If they're invested in the federal reserve note but not American freedom then you're either getting a lot more neutrals or individuals who either accept or desire unconstitutional changes to American society. That has a net deleterious effect which can be added to homegrown socialism, fascism, etc. If we were mostly getting immigrants who came here to be free it would be a different story. I see this as another case of the myth of the worker hero illegal immigrant. They aren't here to be free, they're just here to make money with no real investment in the existing American culture and heritage of freedom.
This sounds familar, Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastro (Post 840108) http://worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...TICLE_ID=58033 http://www.hometownannapolis.com/cgi...7/11_19-31/TOP You wouldn't shoot me if I came to squat in your house? How can we expect a people who come from a less free country than ours, to uphold the freedoms we cherish? They did not come here for freedom, they come here for the money. I am not sorry that I want to keep my freedom, and I am for any measure that will protect my freedom, if that is selfish, too bad.

Anty Ep | 11-28-2007 01:30 PM
Re: Elbow Room I dont speak for Rev obviously just myself. But Latin America is a place steeped in notions of racial caste. It was nothing new when Columbus showed up either, what with the Aztecs running around genociding other tribes. So tribalism and its sister racialism are and always were facts of life in Latin America. Its obvious enough today if you go there. And Latin American history shows a "guerra des las castas" every fifty years or so. In our terms that means "race war." And when they-- meaning, low-caste Mexican or Guatemalan Indians and mestizos--when they come here they bring it with them. Both their caste/race consciousness and also their low-caste hate and resentment. I feel absolutely zero guilt about this topic. If they want to make a race war out of it-- and lots of them sure talk like the they do-- well, I'm with the whites not them and we plan to win. If its a LIC-- low intensity conflict "guerra des las castas" -- the same notions adhere, but the tactics change. IMO, places like Mexico are always in a state of LIC race war. Anyhow, American individualism grew up as a cultural idiom that blatantly excluded negroes. Today, whites have a big guilt trip with this and cant just recognize that the idiom simply may not travel across racial lines successfully. Whites want to think other racial and ethnic groups are just as individualistic as they are. Generally that is not the case. It's also why whites have a compulsive and neurotic love-hate relationship with the Jewish tribe-- which looks white but doesnt "act" it-- in the sense that Jewish culture is very collectivistic rather than individualistic, compared to European Christian culture. That's no accident, since the whole notion of a tribal covenant both bound them together, helped them survive-- and thrive-- and also was explicitly negated by the universalization of Christianity in Roman Catholicism. Indeed one might argue that the individualism of the west exists only because of Christianity, and that in nearly every other culture, there is a greater emphasis on tribe and group, but Euros are different because their 2000 year old religion explicitly focuses on individual and not group salvation. Anyways, I am not "confused" about the facts of reality by my faith. I get that I am part of the white group and if it's group conflict then I got to be a team player to come out on top. As our nation is more and more flooded with the collectivistic non-European peoples, group identity will become more and more important. As resource competition increases, things heat up. Thats just the way it is, like it or not. It doesnt mean one cant act decently on an individual basis but the day may come when taking people as individuals is a luxury that a survivalist can no longer afford. Some people think that day's already arrived. I dont know except that there are millions of "racist" Latin American indians here now. By contrast, most individualistic American whites are complete weak sisters and suckers compared to the hard-ass stick-together white Hispanics from south of the border who live and breath caste society day after day, and talk out of both sides of their mouth with all that "la raza" crap as they live on the backs of the peons without a blink of conscience. And who arent afraid to organize "death squads" in places like El Salvador to dispense immediate punishment to thems who gets "out of line" before things get "out of hand." They know from experience what it takes to stay on top when you are a thin minority getting thinner. IT's the Spartans and helots and krypteria all over again. That's the way we're headed folks like it or not and there aint much we can do about it except figure it out and live with it.

Ulysses | 11-28-2007 02:29 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 849719) I dont speak for Rev obviously just myself. But Latin America is a place steeped in notions of racial caste. It was nothing new when Columbus showed up either, what with the Aztecs running around genociding other tribes. So tribalism and its sister racialism are and always were facts of life in Latin America. Its obvious enough today if you go there. And Latin American history shows a "guerra des las castas" every fifty years or so. In our terms that means "race war." And when they-- meaning, low-caste Mexican or Guatemalan Indians and mestizos--when they come here they bring it with them. Both their caste/race consciousness and also their low-caste hate and resentment. I feel absolutely zero guilt about this topic. If they want to make a race war out of it-- and lots of them sure talk like the they do-- well, I'm with the whites not them and we plan to win. If its a LIC-- low intensity conflict "guerra des las castas" -- the same notions adhere, but the tactics change. IMO, places like Mexico are always in a state of LIC race war. Anyhow, American individualism grew up as a cultural idiom that blatantly excluded negroes. Today, whites have a big guilt trip with this and cant just recognize that the idiom simply may not travel across racial lines successfully. Whites want to think other racial and ethnic groups are just as individualistic as they are. Generally that is not the case. It's also why whites have a compulsive and neurotic love-hate relationship with the Jewish tribe-- which looks white but doesnt "act" it-- in the sense that Jewish culture is very collectivistic rather than individualistic, compared to European Christian culture. That's no accident, since the whole notion of a tribal covenant both bound them together, helped them survive-- and thrive-- and also was explicitly negated by the universalization of Christianity in Roman Catholicism. Indeed one might argue that the individualism of the west exists only because of Christianity, and that in nearly every other culture, there is a greater emphasis on tribe and group, but Euros are different because their 2000 year old religion explicitly focuses on individual and not group salvation. Anyways, I am not "confused" about the facts of reality by my faith. I get that I am part of the white group and if it's group conflict then I got to be a team player to come out on top. As our nation is more and more flooded with the collectivistic non-European peoples, group identity will become more and more important. As resource competition increases, things heat up. Thats just the way it is, like it or not. It doesnt mean one cant act decently on an individual basis but the day may come when taking people as individuals is a luxury that a survivalist can no longer afford. Some people think that day's already arrived. I dont know except that there are millions of "racist" Latin American indians here now. By contrast, most individualistic American whites are complete weak sisters and suckers compared to the hard-ass stick-together white Hispanics from south of the border who live and breath caste society day after day, and talk out of both sides of their mouth with all that "la raza" crap as they live on the backs of the peons without a blink of conscience. And who arent afraid to organize "death squads" in places like El Salvador to dispense immediate punishment to thems who gets "out of line" before things get "out of hand." They know from experience what it takes to stay on top when you are a thin minority getting thinner. IT's the Spartans and helots and krypteria all over again. That's the way we're headed folks like it or not and there aint much we can do about it except figure it out and live with it.
Hilarious. You've really outdone yourself this time Anty. It's a hoot to see how hard you work to portray immigrants as racist. There are millions of racist immigrants here now, you say? How about the millions of racist whites? Also, I would say American individualism exists in spite of Christianity, not because of it. But the real kicker is to hear your whimsical and enamoured description of those true men of men who organize "death squads" to "dispense immediate punishment" to non-whites. Oh, "They know from experience what it takes to stay on top when you are a thin minority getting thinner." Is that what it takes Anty? Do you think whites in the US should organize death squads? You're one of those lynching mob types, aren't you. Crowd courage.

Kahlil Gibran | 11-28-2007 02:46 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysses (Post 849788) How about the millions of racist whites? You're one of those lynching mob types, aren't you.
http://www.adl.org/civil_rights/ :wavey: Are you reading from a script book in a cubicle Ulysses?

woodman | 11-28-2007 08:31 PM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysses (Post 849788) Hilarious. You've really outdone yourself this time Anty. It's a hoot to see how hard you work to portray immigrants as racist. There are millions of racist immigrants here now, you say? How about the millions of racist whites? Also, I would say American individualism exists in spite of Christianity, not because of it. But the real kicker is to hear your whimsical and enamoured description of those true men of men who organize "death squads" to "dispense immediate punishment" to non-whites. Oh, "They know from experience what it takes to stay on top when you are a thin minority getting thinner." Is that what it takes Anty? Do you think whites in the US should organize death squads? (You're one of those lynching mob types, aren't you.) Crowd courage.
Anty is just being honest and realistic. You take the remarks out of context and sensationalize them. Why not just let him have his say and disagree with him? Why must you attack people in such a disgusting and vile manner? This shows you to be far worse than what you decry. As far as I can see from your posting you run hither and yon all over the board and make wild inflamitory statements. Why don't you chill out? I guess it is my turn now, huh? I certainly don't need to chime in here in defense of Anty who has shown to be well able to defend himself. I am just sick of all the defamitory language used by you and certain others towards those who are merely expressing their ideas. You and those of your ilk are prone to personal attacks and this is antithetic to good thread hygiene. Amend your ways.

woodman | 11-28-2007 08:48 PM
Re: Elbow Room I have spoken on this theme much on this and other forums. The world is overcrowded. When we lose elbow room we lose freedom and quality of life. The worlds ecosystems are crashing and species extinction is at all time high since, what, the Jurasic? Feeding our pets alone is killing the oceans. Human greed and need cannot be stopped, it is a runaway train. May as well breed. Your descendants and possibly you will be battling others to the death for scarce resources. History has shown this to be true throughout the ages. It will not be different this time because human genetics have not changed. We are hardwired to do what we do. That is fight and breed. Diseases will not cull the herd. Not in any meaningfull way. Starvation will and warfare will. I am not looking to this as a good thing. I just think it is the most probable outcome of our overshoot. It is too late to save the planet in any pristine state. The damage is done because the train wreck is just beginning. It will likely go on a long time.

Ulysses | 11-29-2007 12:19 AM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by woodman (Post 850433) Anty is just being honest and realistic. You take the remarks out of context and sensationalize them. Why not just let him have his say and disagree with him? Why must you attack people in such a disgusting and vile manner? This shows you to be far worse than what you decry. As far as I can see from your posting you run hither and yon all over the board and make wild inflamitory statements. Why don't you chill out? I guess it is my turn now, huh? I certainly don't need to chime in here in defense of Anty who has shown to be well able to defend himself. I am just sick of all the defamitory language used by you and certain others towards those who are merely expressing their ideas. You and those of your ilk are prone to personal attacks and this is antithetic to good thread hygiene. Amend your ways.
Please explain how it is that, according to you, I took Anty's remarks out of context, since I quoted his whole post. I'd also suggest taking some of your own advice, since you say I should be less inflamatory in a post filled with inflamatory language. :no_ma:

Anty Ep | 11-29-2007 08:53 AM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulysses (Post 849788) It's a hoot to see how hard you work to portray immigrants as racist. There are millions of racist immigrants here now, you say? How about the millions of racist whites?
How about them. I guessed you missed the point. Millions of non white invaders will inevitably increase racial tensions. You either acknowledge the trend or not. I could care less whether you or any other bedwetting liberal or pie in the sky limperterian likes it or not. That's the trend. Intelligent people interested in survival recognize trends and adapt. Quote:
Also, I would say American individualism exists in spite of Christianity, not because of it.
You talk down to a lot of people at this forum as if you have some grand knowledge of philosophy and yet you apparently fail to grasp my point about paganisms (including Judaism) as fundamentally collectivisitic and tribal, and Christianity as fundamentally universalistic, and on the level of personal salvation very individualistic. I am not the one who noticed this difference btw, its out there in plenty of great books if you want to check it out. Now I would say, Christianity is not necessarily anti-tribal, and Roman Catholicism shows a great deal of concern with community conversion and well-being as well as individual. But the essential thrust of Protestantism is individualistic in the extreme. I regard US culture as fundamentally based on Anglo-Saxon Protestant cultural ethics which are what they are. Again one need not like them to see them for what they are. My point is that flooding this country with non-Europeans will necessarily tend to drive the country towards a different and more tribalistic social situation. You're a whoreshipper of individualism so its people like you who would oppose it if you could "get" the issue of culture. Thats ok most liberterians dont so you are in good company. Quote:
But the real kicker is to hear your whimsical and enamoured description of those true men of men who organize "death squads" to "dispense immediate punishment" to non-whites.
You are too caught up in your apparent mission to condemn racism to recognize the factual reality of what I said and deal with it. Also you misrepresent what I said. In places like El Salvador pretty close to 90% of the population is non-white, so the "death squads" of their civil war didnt dispense summary punishment to their victims because they were non-white, but because they were instigating a Marxist insurrection -- which in Latin America where the top stratum of white Hispanics owns the lion's share of property-- was very much an insurrection following the pattern of racial "guerra des las castas" of years past, in which the Indians and mixed population initiates a spontaneous burst of racial violence on the small number of white hispanic landowners. That's historical reality whether you like it or not, and my point is that the Latinization of America will take us down the same route. Quote:
Oh, "They know from experience what it takes to stay on top when you are a thin minority getting thinner." Is that what it takes Anty? Do you think whites in the US should organize death squads?
We already have. Blackwater is a corporate death squad organized by a SEAL who pimps his guns out to protect our massive "death squad" operation in the middle east. Its a certainty that Blackwater is staffed with some of the same Marines and other SPECWAR experts that aided and assisted in the Salvadoran counterinsurgency. Spartan-like militaristic societies can't exist for long without krypteria. The antebellum South and the Jim Crow South alike were not exceptions to this nor is or was the caste-based Latin American situations I've described. Nor will the USA be any different as globalists and "free immigration" invasion advocates like yourself take us down the path of flooding the country with illiterate non-white scabs. The whole thing is going towards a racial caste system at a breakneck pace and your Martin-Plagiarist-whoremaster-King color blind society does not exist and each year we get farther and farther. The funny thing about American racial stratification is that there is one tribe that has risen to the top stratum of the "white" caste in terms of their high levels of education and wealth and influence-- yes we are talking about the Jewish tribe who sit atop the white caste, like it or not-- and the irony of that is that they were throughout most of the 20th century the most aggressive at championing "desegregation" and "civil rights" and all the rest of it. Just like they champion immigrant invasion. And lo, these trends have not hurt them but pushed them up at the top level of the top racial caste. Most ironic dont you think?

REV127 | 11-29-2007 09:41 AM
Re: Elbow Room Quote:
Originally Posted by gasilat (Post 849969) i seriously respect your opinion on most things rev
I appreciate that but you know what they say about opinions... mine are no different. If I'm wrong about something I take no offense at somebody pointing it out. Quote:
but i have to disagree with you on finding elbow room in alaska and also the concerns about living in alaska you mention are overblown imho...the main drawback for most newcomers is 1. the weather in winter 2. the wife has family elsewhere and she wants to go back to them after a few years but there is some serious elbow room here for the initiated... there are isolated areas all over the place you can only boat or fly to...of course that may not interest everybody...just the ones that are looking for elbow room...and even on the road system its easy to snuggle up with some open expanse when you buy next to wildlife refuge or park... canada has serious open space also... ...
I understand where you're coming from. My family moved South from a sub-arctic lattitude a couple generations ago. My wife grew up pretty far North. We've discussed it and ultimately we're probably looking at moving to an arctic location as things get less tennable at warmer lattitudes. Inhospitable environments are an advantage for people who know how to live there, no doubt about that. As far as overblown goes, yes, I can see that too. They aren't big problems right now but they are real potentialities for the future which is what I'm talking about. Alaska is certainly big with lots of places to run and hide in whatever event. What I'm really pining away for is a real frontier. Somewhere you can go and be beyond the reach of the people who want to tell you how to live your life or put a yoke around your neck. That's getting awful hard to find anywhere on the planet these days. As I've alluded to before I'd be on the first spaceship off this planet if there was somewhere else to go. It's just scary to think what the world is going to look like in 30 or 40 years. Imagine another person standing next to everybody you see, everywhere you go. Imagine every city twice as big. Twice as many roads with twice as many cars on them, etc. Twice the income tax rate too, no doubt. I suppose I just have pioneer DNA or something but when it starts looking like that I start looking for somewhere else to be.

macrohard | 11-29-2007 04:30 PM
Re: Elbow Room "Alaska is the only state that does not collect state sales tax or levy an individual income tax. To finance state operations, Alaska depends primarily on petroleum revenues. Some of its cities and other local jurisdictions, however, do collect sales tax revenue. More on Alaska taxes can be found in the tabbed pages below." Property taxes are reasonable too, with only 25 of 161 incorporated municipalities or boroughs (a rough equivalent to counties) in the state assessing property taxes. The average per capita property tax paid in all municipalities, excluding oil and gas properties, was $1,163, according to 2006 data. :bear_w00t::bear_w00t::bear_w00t: Nice.

Baphomet Jones | 12-09-2007 03:08 PM
Re: Elbow Room Are there parts of Alaska that are wind-swept the majority of the year, to the extent where large scale independant wind energy would be feasible for a group of families? If so, I might consider making the jump :D

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