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cb&julie | 11-28-2006 02:32 AM
Portable Stove I don't think that this topic has been covered in awhile. Do you guys go in for portable stoves, the backpacking type? I've read that a mixture of propane/butane works best in them as this balances the high burning point of one gas with the ability of the other to burn at high altitudes. We have the old Bluet 206 model. It's been standard issue for a number of years and has few parts, very durable, and still very common in the US and very much so in Europe.

R MacDonald | 11-28-2006 02:45 AM
Re: Portable Stove Quote:
Originally Posted by cb&julie (Post 427349) I don't think that this topic has been covered in awhile. Do you guys go in for portable stoves, the backpacking type? I've read that a mixture of propane/butane works best in them as this balances the high burning point of one gas with the ability of the other to burn at high altitudes. We have the old Bluet 206 model. It's been standard issue for a number of years and has few parts, very durable, and still very common in the US and very much so in Europe.
I like the MSR line... http://www.msrcorp.com/stoves/

RiverRat | 11-28-2006 05:28 AM
Re: Portable Stove :coolbeer: Good choice for a new thread... I have used my Optimus SVEA 123 for 10 years with zero problems. In my opinion it's the world standard every backpacking or camping stove ever made should be judged against. The Optimus 8Rs are good...but nowhere near the 123 in reliability. I never leave home without it... :D :D :D :D

REV127 | 11-28-2006 10:30 AM
Re: Portable Stove I don't know how it would work at high altitude, but my favorite portable stove is homemade. What you do is roll a long strip of corrugated cardboard and put it inside a tuna can or similar. It should fit flush with the top of the can. Then you melt some parafin wax in a double boiler and pour it over the roll of cardboard in the tuna can. After it cools you have a fuel source that burns hot and is resistant to being put out by water or even exceptionally high winds. Your best bet for extinguishing the flame is to cut off the oxygen supply by smothering it with the bottom of a pot. A sterno folding stove or just about anything else will work as a surface to do the cooking on.

TLM | 11-28-2006 11:14 AM
Re: Portable Stove Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 427592) I don't know how it would work at high altitude, but my favorite portable stove is homemade. What you do is roll a long strip of corrugated cardboard and put it inside a tuna can or similar. It should fit flush with the top of the can. Then you melt some parafin wax in a double boiler and pour it over the roll of cardboard in the tuna can. After it cools you have a fuel source that burns hot and is resistant to being put out by water or even exceptionally high winds. Your best bet for extinguishing the flame is to cut off the oxygen supply by smothering it with the bottom of a pot. A sterno folding stove or just about anything else will work as a surface to do the cooking on.
We used to call them "buddy burners" :cheerful:

Halophyte | 11-28-2006 12:55 PM
Re: Portable Stove Tuna can alcohol stove, never go to the backwoods without it.

R MacDonald | 11-28-2006 02:12 PM
Re: Portable Stove Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 427395) :coolbeer: Good choice for a new thread... I have used my Optimus SVEA 123 for 10 years with zero problems. In my opinion it's the world standard every backpacking or camping stove ever made should be judged against. The Optimus 8Rs are good...but nowhere near the 123 in reliability. I never leave home without it... :D :D :D :D
I've been looking at this for my next one... http://www.msrcorp.com/stoves/dragonfly.asp BTW, RR.... How well does the Optimus simmer?

TheSimpleton | 11-28-2006 02:21 PM
Re: Portable Stove I can't see any reason for a fuel stove, although I'm sure there are some. If you're camping long, you need a wood-based solution. http://zenstoves.net/ There is the FourDog.com titanium which are very reasonable 8lbs(3.6kg)and about $485US They have a smaller, packable stove only in the paper catalog, Beaufort, I believe, that is tall and narrow and ties better to a pack. Kifaru.net has a SS break-down pack stove, also at about 3.6kg and $500US, but I've seen it and the draft is hard to control, meaning waking up every 3 hours at night. It also has some warping problems, but is durable. I'd shoot for a hobo stove, basically a coffee-can with a juice-key vents in the bottom, a lift of hardware cloth on the bottom. It can burn almost smokeless if done right. Was recommended by Koy, if I'm not mistaken. http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/WoodGasStove/ ZenStove.com has Nimblewill's plate-stove, which has to rate highly on all fronts, especially weight and packing size. 4 flatplates of any material, steel, Ti, SS, are interlocked into a U like a shoebox. Vents are built in. Packed it's like 4- 4x8" pieces of cardstock. If you get the piped stoves, you in effect buy a home, because you can heat your tent/trailer/shelter. Drying your clothes due the simple act of heating your space can save your life and really takes the edge off your calorie needs. It would turn survival/refugee status into long-term living instantly. Think of long cooking, drying cropstuffs, and everything else it takes to live long-term. Ok, maybe wood is no good for some reason although almost anywhere in the world you can get fuel without carrying it. If you're out for just a day or two, are being Spartan, and can't have (or reveal) a fire, then alcohol is your next bet. Why? It's cheap, safe, easy to get, and hotter than a pistol. However the fuel is a bit large for the heat, so you'd need something like a gallon for a long trip--not worth bringing compared to diesel or white gas. But if you're using diesel or white gas, you should probably have a wood stove instead anyway. http://zenstoves.net/ZenStove.htm or the best: http://www.csun.edu/~mjurey/penny.html You could also buy one http://www.brasslite.com/products.html I've used this one too (but not -0c yet) and it's really nice to use, nicely made, and has good simmer control. It can cook faster than an electric. However, the pennystove is free if you don't waste the beer. There will never be a time in human history that you will not be able to get alcohol. Before that I might pick Trioxene/Esbit tabs, because you don't even need a "stove" to burn them. A rock, a tuna can, 3 tent stakes or whatever will do it. They burn fast and don't simmer well, but also make incredible fire starters. The reason--and only reason in my opinion--for the Optimus/MSR stoves is if you are spending a long period above the treeline and need to cook very quickly. They are truly spartan, and you'll freeze in your tent as well. They're overly heavy for the use of them, and depend on part/maintanence and the fuels of civilization. That's not to say a good kero cooker http://www.thecellarstore.com/thecel...cgi/wm4/wm.cgi (look for their "potjie") or http://lehmans.com/shopping/product/...yword=kerosene http://lehmans.com/shopping/product/...ProductID=4552 or a Coleman stove or that Optimus aren't great at camp. They are. They cook great, fast, clean, and with high control. But they're for the purpose of setting up a permanent, supported RV or woods kitchen where you're going to have indefinite support for your kero/Propane/unleaded needs at a reasonable price. If you do that, you might as well do this: http://www.marinestove.com/installation_views.htm Or the same thing with a lighter-weight Titanium 4-dog or the cheap Cabella's/Sportsman Guide steel/army woodstoves. Personal opinion: you're not independent if you need parts/supplies from the grid/economy. There's no need for it. It's strange to prepare for contingencies like the economy/inventory structure to fall while basing your plan on access to that structure. Run light. A coffee can and a juice key don't attract any attention and aren't worth stealing. Wood stoves last several lifetimes and can be got used. Save your money for things you actually can't get later. Did I cover it? TS

AgAuGal | 11-28-2006 02:24 PM
Re: Portable Stove I bought a coleman stove and extra cans. Guess I'm not a sophisticate and still behind the eight ball on preps but I hope it is better than nothing. Great thread. So much to learn so little time. Also live in a small community so options are few.

Unclad Lad | 11-29-2006 01:03 AM
A few good sites http://stovecollector.tripod.com/linklist.htm http://wings.interfree.it/html/main.html http://www.pcthiker.com/pages/gear/p...instruct.shtml http://www.spiritburner.com/ That oughta keep you for a while. :proud:

electric-amish | 11-29-2006 01:15 AM
Re: Portable Stove I bought the MSR Whisper lite International. Liquid fuel is heavy but the multiple types of fuel it can burn made it the SHTF stove for 30-40 days. No smoke to see or smell from a distance but an impressive flareup when starting. I like the small HOBO style wood stoves for longer period of time. They burn wood in small amounts. Electric-Amish

RiverRat | 11-29-2006 02:10 AM
Re: Portable Stove :cool1: The Swedish military mess kits include a Trangia alcohol burner that is first class...they are cheap and reliable as hell. Denatured alcohol (Heet) or any gasoline anti freeze burns well and is almost as cheap as buying denatured alcohol by the gallon. In a pinch you can burn regular household alcohol...but it smokes like hell...too much water content. Last year I made about one hundred soda can alcohol stoves for my friends and relatives...set up a regular assembly line...could build one in about ten minutes. They are definitely the lightest weight alcohol stove for backpacking or camping...and the cost is probably zilch if you can find some old fiberglass insulation lying around. Seems every deer hunter in my family wanted a couple to keep warm while sitting in their tree stands. They sell these things on eBay for people too lazy to build their own...I designed a hybrid model using a beanie weenie can that hold three times the fuel and burns for about 35 minutes...long enough to cook a big meal. Lot's of fun playing around with these things...but a Swedish Trangia is a tough act to top...they cheap and tough...if you prefer alcohol over gasoline you can't find a better alcohol stove than the Trangia. :cool1: :cool1:

TLM | 11-29-2006 09:37 AM
Re: Portable Stove Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 428702) :cool1: The Swedish military mess kits include a Trangia alcohol burner that is first class...they are cheap and reliable as hell. Denatured alcohol (Heet) or any gasoline anti freeze burns well and is almost as cheap as buying denatured alcohol by the gallon. In a pinch you can burn regular household alcohol...but it smokes like hell...too much water content. Last year I made about one hundred soda can alcohol stoves for my friends and relatives...set up a regular assembly line...could build one in about ten minutes. They are definitely the lightest weight alcohol stove for backpacking or camping...and the cost is probably zilch if you can find some old fiberglass insulation lying around. Seems every deer hunter in my family wanted a couple to keep warm while sitting in their tree stands. They sell these things on eBay for people too lazy to build their own...I designed a hybrid model using a beanie weenie can that hold three times the fuel and burns for about 35 minutes...long enough to cook a big meal. Lot's of fun playing around with these things...but a Swedish Trangia is a tough act to top...they cheap and tough...if you prefer alcohol over gasoline you can't find a better alcohol stove than the Trangia. :cool1: :cool1:
Sounds interesting, I'd really like to make some of these, can you give some general instructions on how to make them? I'd really appreciate it. Thanks

hoarder | 11-29-2006 10:00 AM
Re: Portable Stove I'm ignorant about these alcohol stoves. If I got this right you keep a separate bottle of alcohol and pour on the amount you need to cook with, after cooking you leave it outside to evaporate any unused alcohol or deal with the odor some other way. I usually eat cold foods on my infrequent and short backpacking jaunts and when "car camping" I use a 2 burner Century stove that uses easily available one pound propane bottles. The only disadvantage of the latter (besides being too heavy for backpacking) is that they are difficult to adjust to a simmer, at least mine is.

Anty Ep | 11-29-2006 10:18 AM
Re: Portable Stove Here's a pic of me lighting up what I use http://www.usna.edu/Users/history/sc...amethrower.jpg

RiverRat | 11-29-2006 11:15 AM
Re: Portable Stove :cool2: TLM: Here's a link below on alcohol stoves: http://zenstoves.net/Stoves.htm Do a web search on pepsi can stoves,cat stoves,tuna can stoves,etc.... There is enough info on construction of these thingys that you will be occupied for hours. :D :D :D :D If you build a hundred of them like I did....you need a cordless Dremel tool with a chuck and jewelers drill bits to avoid all the primitive hole punching. Also a small dremel sanding drum to fit the centers tight and correctly. Have fun....denatured alcohol will light you up like a light bulb...it's invisible when spilled....so be extra careful until you get used to handling it. I had a few interesting occurences :eek: be careful... :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

TheSimpleton | 11-29-2006 11:18 AM
Re: Portable Stove Speaking of the Trangia, which is top-rated, they are also used in Yachts. Boats are a great place to find rock-solid long term gear and ideas. They have no time and no slack to knock about with half-baked gear. Navigator makes a case to drop your trangia into a wood-stove plate for summer use: http://www.marinestove.com/Accessories.htm This would be much appreciated throughout the summer while keeping the stove in its usual location and use as cooking space. Old-time canning kitchens were brutal because the harvest comes in in the heat of the year. This may be of no matter, but if you are stopped carrying an MSR it really says "long-term camping", whereas an esbit tab or an alcohol stove might be passed off as eccentric. In alcohol, it's isopropyl to avoid. Home alcohol and cheap dry-gas are this. What's a "Beanie weenie" related to a can-stove? Using this larger-size can? TS <---A weenie

TLM | 11-29-2006 11:34 AM
Re: Portable Stove Thanks River Rat. We need to have a Survival Prep convention. We have so many people with different skills on this forum, it could make for a very educational weekend. Maybe in the Spring when the weather is nice. Any thoughts or interest? Should I start another thread to guage interest? TLM

RiverRat | 11-29-2006 11:47 AM
Re: Portable Stove :D TheSimpleton: Just a variation of the soda can stove design. Same soda can top,with a deeper bottom base to hold more fuel. The small Van Camps beenie weenie cans are the only size can that seems to accept a modified soda can top and seal correctly. Some of the designs don't use fiberglass insulation to soak up and prolong burning times....my advice...stuff a wad in there...it slows down the burn time and keeps the jet flame from going ballistic.It also tends to keep the stove cooler. Nothing like a runaway alcohol soda can stove with 8 inch jet flames roaring out of control for a quick heart attack. :D :D :D :D My wife banned me from research and development of the super monster Maxwell House coffee can stove when the flames reached 18 inches and the dog was tearing down the door trying to escape certain death by my prototype invention. I was banned from testing any more bright ideas in the kitchen for a period of six months....bummer...had to move the test lab to the garage. :D :D :D :D

R MacDonald | 11-29-2006 01:09 PM
Re: Portable Stove Following those links, I found this little gem: School Bus Motorhome Conversion The wood stove is here: http://www.marinestove.com/installation_views.htm

Anty Ep | 11-29-2006 02:40 PM
Re: Portable Stove Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 429161) My wife banned me from research and development of the super monster Maxwell House coffee can stove when the flames reached 18 inches and the dog was tearing down the door trying to escape certain death by my prototype invention. I was banned from testing any more bright ideas in the kitchen for a period of six months....bummer...had to move the test lab to the garage. :D :D :D :D
Well what do you expect. She didnt bargain for that. Not you trying to brew up "Semtex, C four's ugly sister"

bl96S5eu | 11-29-2006 03:06 PM
Re: Portable Stove Great threads, already starting on building my own little wood backpacking burner per the instructions here and will be trying the pepsi can burner after that. Thanks.

bl96S5eu | 11-29-2006 03:09 PM
Re: Portable Stove Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 429014) If I got this right you keep a separate bottle of alcohol and pour on the amount you need to cook with, after cooking you leave it outside to evaporate any unused alcohol or deal with the odor some other way.
From looking around and some varied reading it appears that you drain the unused fuel. From pictures like this one it appears that they use some sort of seal squeeze bottle which makes sense that the suction from the tip could pull in the used fuel.

wallew | 11-29-2006 05:28 PM
Re: Portable Stove Quote:
Originally Posted by TLM (Post 429150) Thanks River Rat. We need to have a Survival Prep convention. We have so many people with different skills on this forum, it could make for a very educational weekend. Maybe in the Spring when the weather is nice. Any thoughts or interest? Should I start another thread to guage interest? TLM
That's an excellent suggestion. Perhaps instead of Spring, how about the dead of winter, above 9000 ft sea level? Like we have here in the Rocky Mountains? Also, hasn't anyone ever heard of Trioxane fuel tablets? Burns hot, but only for about five - six minutes in really cold weather (use more than one if you want a longer time period). But would start a wood fire very well. Here are a couple of pix of me testing one out on my patio today. It's approximately 10 degrees, snowing and blowing to beat the band. Still burned almost exactly five minutes. Plus the holder folds up quite nicely. http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...1&d=1164838834 http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...1&d=1164838834 http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...1&d=1164838835 Stove currently on sale on ebay - three for less than $15 (includes s&h) http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Folding-Camp-S...QQcmdZViewItem

TheSimpleton | 11-30-2006 10:55 AM
Re: Portable Stove Triox may be one of the best things the army every invented. But I don't like those fold-up stoves for them, although they work well enough. The paint peels up on them when burnt, then goes in your pack sooty. It's a single-use item and relatively heavy. I'd try two alternatives to that. One, the triox cooking ring that slips around the US canteen. It's tall enough and makes its own windscreen. Although a bit clugey, the canteen, cover, cup, and collar works extremely well in a very small size for what it does. The other would be to carry a windscreen of any type--MSR, folded tin from cooking trays, #10 can cutout (zenstove Tommy Cooker below), or whatever--and hold your pot up with 3 tent stakes. Common nails are fine, but Titanium stakes don't rust. This is a bit lighter, but the difference would be in ounces. Zen offeres these: http://zenstoves.net/SolidFuelBurner.htm but I'd use a rock. Apparently triox can be lit with a sparker if you shave dust off it. If I had a choice between carrying matches and triox as survival firestarter, it would be triox, no contest. Buy a pallet if you have the room; you can always start the grill with it. Look out as it is mildly toxic to touch. It is a "mildly bound form of formaldahyde, used as a disinfectant" http://www.reciprocalnet.org/recipne...pleId=27344024 Esbits and Coughan's have a different recipe and are apparently non-toxic. TS "Fire, yeah, cool, Fire" --Beavis and Butthead

money matters | 11-30-2006 01:08 PM
Re: Portable Stove Portable stoves? There is a guy on ebay that sells backpacking size sheepherder stoves, small enought to heat a tent, has collapsible stove pipe and spark arrestor. Fullsize sheepherders are really usable, have the side warmer option for hot water etc. I like MSR backpacking stoves, but be sure you have a spare pump and o-ring set. Still have my old Bluet propane/camping gaz stove & a couple ctgs. Also like Century or Coleman double burner cookstoves. Get a bulk tank adapter and hose extension. Coleman makes their "T" bar that sets a lantern up over the 5gal tank and gives 2 outlets for other propane appliances. If you have any propane cylinder dealies, you need a bulk tank filling adapter. Bought mine at Northern. Lets you fill small cylinders by attaching them to a 5gal tank and inverting for gravity fill. They work, just not 100% because there is no pressure pumping the cyl full. Work best with the standard Bernz-0-matic long cylinder. Seems to me, that these bitty cookstoves are mainly for trail/backpacking use. Are most here expecting a bug-out scenario? Much better for outdoor cooking are Cast Iron dutch ovens and skillets. Get a Lodge Tripod and hang stuff over an open fire. The stuff is about indestructible. None of the backpacking/camping cookware is made to last. A set of nesting Reverewear is a better value than anything made for backpacking. Puhleeze don't even consider aluminum cookware, the stuff can melt at heat, and has health side-effects. You might find some decent stainless pots/pans at your local Salvation Army. You can knock the arms off the pots, at least w/Revere, and use MSR or bacpacking pot handles. A nesting set with lids would be great. I do own an MSR set, but they are pretty wimpy for long term use. I always "love" to see the Bug-Out threads. What a romantic joke! If you are "bugging out" with something less than a 4x4 Suburban pulling a 12' foot cargo trailer, you got little chance or no chance. The ultimate in a "portable stove" is a Motorhome. Just don't forget a spare hose and regulator to hook up to external propane bottles or bulk tanks once the onboard 45 gals goes dry. Might also read up on charcoal making. If you have hardwoods in your area, making charcoal is a great way to get better use from your wood supply. Try Mother Earth News or Foxfire. It's not rocket science, basically just covering smoldering wood with dirt and letting it transform chemically. Voila! Brazier quality charcoal for cooking and blacksmithing. There are going to be better uses for #10 cans and coffee cans than burning them to bits.

sam | 11-30-2006 01:47 PM
Re: Portable Stove mm- A long time ago I bought a #10 Lodge Dutch oven with three legs. Supposed to be able to bake a meal with just a handful of charcoal briquettes. You set the pot on a steel plate or flat concrete and arrange the lit briquettes in a ring under it. The number of briquettes depends on what you are cooking - the temp you want to attain. I used it in my BBQ grill for turkey stuffing, but have to admit that I haven't tried the briquette method yet. http://image.bizrate.com/resize?sq=1...719&mid=125565

sam | 11-30-2006 06:50 PM
Re: Portable Stove I forgot something. See how the lid is slightly domed with a lip around it? That's so you can set some briquettes in a ring around the top.

Halophyte | 12-01-2006 10:29 PM
Re: Portable Stove 1 Attachment(s) Another one for you. M1945 Army tent stove. Lightweight, iron grate, burns wood, coal and if you buy the burner kit will burn k-1, gasoline and deisel. I would just put a iron frying pan in it with a roll of TP as wick for a deisel burner.

hoarder | 12-01-2006 10:31 PM
Re: Portable Stove I don't think the esbit fuel is as highly toxic as the trioxane. I wouldn't burn the latter in a confined space. Esbit seems to burn clean, maybe not as hot but the fumes probably won't kill you as fast as triox.

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bl96S5eu | 12-01-2006 11:04 PM
Re: Portable Stove Quote:
Originally Posted by Halophyte (Post 432446) Another one for you. M1945 Army tent stove. Lightweight, iron grate, burns wood, coal and if you buy the burner kit will burn k-1, gasoline and deisel.
Where did you get that beast? Did some quick searching online and couldn't find one.

money matters | 12-02-2006 03:14 AM
Re: Portable Stove I have a 10man Arctic tent with liner. It has a flue hole that is asbestos lined. Another guy I know spent the Winter in Fairanks in one of these. Had a barrel stove for heat. It is regularly -50F or colder in Fairbanks. The little army tent heaters are often seen on Ebay, or try some of the surplus advertisers in Shotgun News. About $75 w/o shipping. The Sheepherders stoves are really decent. The packhorse outfitters sell them. We had a nice new JennAir electric stove in the house we built up here 5 yrs ago. No good when the power goes out. Got a cheap-o propane stove that works just fine, not one of the electric pilot light jobbies. When the power goes out, the oven still works. Something else to consider is one of those small cannister Coleman heaters. You could set a grill over it and cook on it for sure, and they are real nice in a tent.

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