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- - *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=207984)

The Argent Dragon | 12-04-2007 10:49 AM
*AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Ok, let's settle this AK dispute whether it's worthy or not.....yadda yadda........7.62 is .....or isn't.....yadda....yadda......etc. :smokin: VOTE accordingly and if you have a 'valid' point ~ by all means post. Please refrain from personal attacks, name calling, and keep it clean. Let the fight....errrr....I mean debate.....begin !!! :applause_ Oh and BTW - it's multiple choice

Lackluster | 12-04-2007 11:16 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Oh, who cares. If you like them, buy them.

low_five | 12-04-2007 11:23 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? my AK doesnt unfold into robocop so it therefore isnt a useful survival weapon.

RR_58 | 12-04-2007 11:38 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? I love AKs...my favorite firearms.I have two of them,they are about 4% of my collection but get 90% of my attention. I oogle them,fondle them,put them on my bed and strip them....then put them together again,hug them & put them where I can watch them some more....THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL!

SilverCity | 12-04-2007 11:54 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? 1 Attachment(s) STILL WAITING for one of these to show up...:rant: Also would like to see Saigas in 5.45x39...:wink:

Wyldwil | 12-04-2007 12:11 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by RR_58 (Post 858660) I love AKs...my favorite firearms.I have two of them,they are about 4% of my collection but get 90% of mt attention. I oogle them,fondle them,put them on my bed and strip them....then put them together again,hug them & put them where I can watch them some more....THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL!
Hopefully they are unloaded whilst you are molesting them. :applause_ :applause_ As far as this poll goes....we need more choices.

Squirrel Bait | 12-04-2007 05:39 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 858687) STILL WAITING for one of these to show up...:rant: Also would like to see Saigas in 5.45x39...:wink:
Heard anything on accuracy?? SB

SilverCity | 12-04-2007 06:32 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? If the new 308 shoots like my older model...1-2 MOA depending on ammo.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 12-04-2007 06:50 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? 1 Attachment(s) I LOVE AKs - especially this one!

SilverCity | 12-04-2007 08:44 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? I think we need to make a separate AK 7.62x39 forum... Can't believe the life of that OTHER one...:smokin:

Pax | 12-04-2007 08:59 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? I have been thinking of getting one to add to my armory. What is the best one to get for my buck, all around good quality for a good price?? ALL SUGGESTIONS APPRECIATED WHAT IS THE ONE ABOVE THAT HIVEMIND POSTED A PIC OF? WHAT KIND OF AK IS IT, BRAND ETC, I LIKE IT.

REV127 | 12-04-2007 09:00 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 859260) I LOVE AKs - especially this one!
A milled Arsenal in x39 can deliver 2moa. The 90 degree gasblock helps.

wallew | 12-04-2007 10:19 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? AK's sux You ALL SUX for liking AK's The top will be feeding off your corpses laughing at your choice of AK There. Can I be like MM now? :tongue_ma:

mtnman | 12-04-2007 11:09 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 859544) AK's sux You ALL SUX for liking AK's The top will be feeding off your corpses laughing at your choice of AK There. Can I be like MM now? :tongue_ma:
MM's Evil Twin???

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 12-05-2007 01:15 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax (Post 859440) WHAT IS THE ONE ABOVE THAT HIVEMIND POSTED A PIC OF? WHAT KIND OF AK IS IT, BRAND ETC, I LIKE IT.
Arsenal SLR-107CR in 7.62 x 39 mm. Also available in caliber .223 (click the links above for a look-see...)

Pax | 12-05-2007 01:48 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Whats the deal with a STAMPED RCIEVER and whatis the alternative?

SilverCity | 12-05-2007 02:24 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax (Post 859760) Whats the deal with a STAMPED RCIEVER and whatis the alternative?
Stamped or milled receiver... Few milled aks are available anymore. Most all are stamped...cheaper to mass produce.

shades2 | 12-05-2007 06:10 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 859260) I LOVE AKs - especially this one!
Nice choice, hard to get though. Arsenal apparently aren't keen on doing milled recievers much, and would prefer to sell stamped (as there is obviously a greater margin in doing so, less time and complexity). I'm sure for the right amount of money they can be convinced to do so. You can probably still buy some of the SAM-7 and similar series around the place new in gunshops in the US though. I think the SAM-7 has actually been discontinued, but there are some similar models. With a milled reciever, the thing is heavier but downright indestructible. I have been privileged to have spoken to some SAS guys this year... who swear by the AK as a backup to their 7.62mm. Not to mention if they get separated from their troop, they can shoot their way out, and the enemy just thinks it's one of theirs blatting away down the block with it's distinctive sound. Not to mention the added advantage of being able to grab the enemy's ammo/mags. What was their main attraction to it though? Reliability. You can throw the thing in the mud and dust and come up shooting, the same cannot be said for many other more complex and highly-engineered guns, accurate and out to decent distances, sure, but not guaranteed to work when things really go bad.

electric-amish | 12-05-2007 09:02 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Bait (Post 859185) Heard anything on accuracy?? SB
HAHAHAHAHAHAH Thats a good one! They are but UGLY. E-A

Professur | 12-05-2007 09:30 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 859974) HAHAHAHAHAHAH Thats a good one! They are but UGLY. E-A
Every gun is ugly from the barrel end.

The Argent Dragon | 12-05-2007 09:30 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Noticed that Centerfire Systems has a good deal on 'shortys' :bear_tongue: http://www.centerfiresystems.com/pro...AGUN-PIS-t.jpg AK-47 Shorty Pistol 7.62x39 Part #AKAGUN-PIS Price $399.99

Baphomet Jones | 12-05-2007 10:01 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Don't be bashful, post your kalishnikovs! http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/2...1124ov8.th.jpg WASR-10 & SAR-1 http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/153...omp2ce1.th.jpg WASR-10 No pics of the two homebuilds yet. Anyone got a spotwelder I can borrow? :P Yeah, I know, TPTB can't find out about my guns, blah blah, come now, we're already on the lists :rolleyes_m: WASR-10 gets 4 or 5 MOA I think. The SAR-1 can hit bowling pins at 200 yards 7 out of 10 shots. Whats that translate to in MOA?

The Argent Dragon | 12-05-2007 10:13 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/PICT1038.jpg

The Argent Dragon | 12-05-2007 10:18 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? ....And the business angle. :D http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/PICT1041.jpg

REV127 | 12-05-2007 10:20 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Baphomet Jones (Post 860046) WASR-10 gets 4 or 5 MOA I think.
I've been doing some research and it looks like a few gunsmiths are getting very good results with an 11 degree recrown of AK barrels. Crowning is usually pretty cheap and it could shave an inch or two off those groups.

mtnman | 12-05-2007 12:04 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Here�s a few of mine. The one on top is an AK-74 the rest are AK-47s. This doesn�t include the one under the seat of my truck or the Chrome AK pistol I�m building to carry in the saddlebags of my bike. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...9/MVC-088S.jpg

wallew | 12-05-2007 12:34 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? AMD65 http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1196876326 NHM91 http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/a...1&d=1196876326

eat_beef | 12-05-2007 12:52 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? The best deal now on AKs is the WASR 2 in 5.45x39, for 290 at Aim. It's a piece of poop, but it runs (just like any other AK), and the ammo is 11 cents per round delivered. Mags are 6 bucks. That said, I hate AKs. I don't like the sloppy feel of all that reciprocating mass, and they're heavy for a medium/short range weapon. Their triggers and sights stink, and they don't have a soul like a M14 or a Garand, but they have their purposes. Did I mention they're commie guns?:aetsch:

mtnman | 12-05-2007 02:14 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 860307) The best deal now on AKs is the WASR 2 in 5.45x39, for 290 at Aim. It's a piece of poop, but it runs (just like any other AK), and the ammo is 11 cents per round delivered. Mags are 6 bucks. That said, I hate AKs. I don't like the sloppy feel of all that reciprocating mass, and they're heavy for a medium/short range weapon. Their triggers and sights stink, and they don't have a soul like a M14 or a Garand, but they have their purposes. Did I mention they're commie guns?:aetsch:
Yep, they�re soulless, just like the Grim Reaper. Made by poor people to arm the poor masses.

eat_beef | 12-05-2007 06:22 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Poor, untrained masses. The AK shows it's Soviet roots, more men than weapons and training. It's fairly close to useless at distance. If one intends to engage at 75 yards, that's their business. I would rather engage with a rifle and at a distance which gives me an advantage, or not at all, if possible. Like I said, they have their place, but I keep coming back to a rifleman's rifle. :tee:

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money matters | 12-05-2007 11:21 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Nothing "wrong" with an AK; it is what it is. BUT.... It is not a rifle, it is a carbine. Putting a longer barrel on one doesn't give you more appreciable velocity or power. Maybe it gives you something to use with a shelter half? But... The spent cases are no-deposit, no-return. Not hardly worth salvaging. That's why no one does. They lay around like junk, unless you're willing to spend $12/20 for Federal American Eagle, or $36 per 100 for empty cases. Even so, then whatd'ya got? A pipsqueak round that can't be reloaded to any greater capacity than milsurp berdan primed ammo. What bullets there are are very limited in oal, weight and none have decent ballistic coefficient. But... If you want a 120 gr bullet going 2350fps that is your business. Almost any American cartridge is better. Oh yeah... Drop em in the mud, take em to Hot Springs and enjoy a mud bath together. That is supposed to be the AK claim to fame, it is Mud-Worthy! Almost forgot, they are legendary for their inaccuracy and minimal power. Jeff cooper said something like, "...If you won't trust your troops with a rifle, the AK may be just the ticket." The AK may be the patrolling jungle-fighters first choice. Soldiering is something much different from survivalism. Yet most here just think they are the guy who wrote, "Yea, though I walk through the valley of death, because I am the baddest mother in the valley...". Sure you are. Hanging out here. Mouthing off and posting pictures like a bunch of girls trading their diaries, full of pix of cute boys they cut out of TigerBeat magazine. What a bunch of bitches!

Baphomet Jones | 12-05-2007 11:40 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Hey money matters heres a suggestion, how about you go **** yourself? Just returning the favor since we're into personal attacks again :bear_w00t: But it is infact a serious suggestion, seeing as you've got such a problem with AK's that you'd make up a buncha bullshit about us "mouthing off" and acting like girls or whatever, then I think we'd all benefit, yourself included, if you just ****ed off already.

Baphomet Jones | 12-05-2007 11:44 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Back to our regularly scheduled programming http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9...openrr1xe6.jpg I've read that most AK mags can have the follower modified to be or outright replaced with a bolt-holdopen type follower that will snag the bolt after the last shot is fired. I'd like to see a mechanism installed that would catch the bolt after the magazine has caught the bolt, that way you can remove an unloaded magazine with the bolt still held open. I can't imagine that would be terribly difficult to do, probably just a bit time consuming. I saw a VEPR in .308 that had a bolt holdopen lever for pleasing uppity range officers or something, would love to get a closer look at the internal workings of that. Maybe it could be modified to work in conjunction with bolt-holdopen mags? Thats prettymuch my only suggestion. Any thoughts?

SilverCity | 12-06-2007 12:03 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Baphomet Jones (Post 861227) Back to our regularly scheduled programming http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9...openrr1xe6.jpg I've read that most AK mags can have the follower modified to be or outright replaced with a bolt-holdopen type follower that will snag the bolt after the last shot is fired. I'd like to see a mechanism installed that would catch the bolt after the magazine has caught the bolt, that way you can remove an unloaded magazine with the bolt still held open. I can't imagine that would be terribly difficult to do, probably just a bit time consuming. I saw a VEPR in .308 that had a bolt holdopen lever for pleasing uppity range officers or something, would love to get a closer look at the internal workings of that. Maybe it could be modified to work in conjunction with bolt-holdopen mags? Thats prettymuch my only suggestion. Any thoughts?
I had one of those mags with a modified hold-open follower...didn't work too well...after a while the follower got so chewed up by being bashed hard by the bolt, it was rendered kinda useless. I replaced it with a regular type follower. No AK that I am aware of has the bolt hold-open feature, except the Saiga (manual)...not the Galil, not even the Cetme, HK91, or 93s had that feature...don't know why. I think one would have to design a new receiver.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 12-06-2007 12:48 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 861198) Sure you are. Hanging out here. Mouthing off and posting pictures like a bunch of girls trading their diaries, full of pix of cute boys they cut out of TigerBeat magazine. What a bunch of bitches!
I am very disappointed to read such remarks as these. Until now I had held you in very high esteem, and had tremendous respect for your views. No longer.

extremist | 12-06-2007 02:04 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? They're quaint, like old M14s or even Garands. You can't be tacti-cool on your grandma's bike.

Baphomet Jones | 12-06-2007 02:48 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/7...ical8vwcs6.jpg Hey Argent Dragon, this ones for me and you I think :haha: Man I love these things. Originally I thought AK's were a bit ugly, but quite a few years later I fell in love with my friend's AK, and had to get one myself. Then another, and another, then parts kits and receiver flats... :wink: Workin on a Krinkov now, stupid NFA... Perhaps the magazines could be modified so that a follower at the top could trip a bolt lock of some sort... I see what you mean by chewing up though, I doubt the followers are very good steel, and if they were, that might even screw up the bolt face then? How does it work on the AR-15 or MP5? Any way to stamp that out of sheet metal and make it simpler? :bull-buddy-icon:

eat_beef | 12-06-2007 09:55 AM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Most everything uses the mag spring (via the follower) to push up the bolt stop. I'm a lot less worried about the lack of a last shot holdopen than the safety. The rifle is a close range weapon, and the safety is a two handed noisy affair. It's OK if you're with 40 other Ivans about to fire full auto from the hip as you trudge toward a bunch of Afghanis with sticks, not so good if you're trying not to be noticed.

REV127 | 12-06-2007 12:08 PM
Re: *AK* poll ~ what wrong with 'em ? Quote:
Originally Posted by Baphomet Jones (Post 861227) Back to our regularly scheduled programming http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9...openrr1xe6.jpg I've read that most AK mags can have the follower modified to be or outright replaced with a bolt-holdopen type follower that will snag the bolt after the last shot is fired. I'd like to see a mechanism installed that would catch the bolt after the magazine has caught the bolt, that way you can remove an unloaded magazine with the bolt still held open. I can't imagine that would be terribly difficult to do, probably just a bit time consuming. I saw a VEPR in .308 that had a bolt holdopen lever for pleasing uppity range officers or something, would love to get a closer look at the internal workings of that. Maybe it could be modified to work in conjunction with bolt-holdopen mags? Thats prettymuch my only suggestion. Any thoughts?
Actually not having a bolt hold open is a sort of a benefit on the AK and the aforementioned German rifles. Without a last round bolt hold open it is easy to train mag changes and the reloading procedure will always be the same... drop empty, insert full, charge the weapon. Just about every combat handgun instructor teaches to to slingshot the slide rather than mess around with hitting the release because it is harder to screw up. Think about the slide stop on a Glock, it is easy to engage but a royal pain to disengage, because the gun wasn't really meant to be used that way. An AK-47 has a vigorous extraction and ejection cycle, robust feeding, strong piston driven gas system, only a few large and tough moving parts and a tapered cartridge. The most common reason an AK-47 won't fire is because it is out of ammo. The second most common reason is because there is a dud in the chamber. The immediate action for both is the same, drop the mag, insert a new one, charge the weapon. If you were out of ammo you're now topped up. If you had a dud you now just did a tactical reload. Fast and win-win. As for the bolt hold open telling you you're out of ammo, that is much overstated. In real life you should be looking at your front site and scanning your lane, not your ejection port. This applies to punching holes in paper, racing the clock or shooting badguys. If you're worried you might have only one bullet left and need to make a critical shot or some other odd extenuating circumstance you can do a simple chamber check by engaging your safety, pulling back the charging handle and inspecting the ejection port. The safety will keep the charging handle from going back far enough to eject the round. The safety is a whole nother matter. Nobody monkeyfingers the AK safety like a Cooper Trooper does with his AR or 1911. There's no point, it is mostly something done to appease American RO's who have a fetish for pomp and ceremony. Take the safety off when you expect to need to shoot, when the fighting is over re-engage the safety. Practice finger discipline. Laying in wait in an ambush is one of those times you should be expecting to have to shoot so you should already have the safety off by the time your target arives. You can engage or disengage it with your left hand by reaching under the reciever, otherwise break your grip and sweep it off with your thumb and on with your index and middle finger. It's a non-issue. You can learn some basic level manipulations from this video. YouTube - Instructional video on how to handle AK-47
YouTube - Instructional video on how to handle AK-47

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