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CANUCKFARMER | 03-15-2009 02:05 PM
DOGS The dog kennel thread reminded me of something i wanted to ask. Whats your favourite dog for when "it" happens? We have a pyranees for our outdoors and he is one great dog for keeping out other animals and was born to kill coyotes and racoons. The problem is he barks all the time so if "it" ever happened there would be to many false alarms for bio-pod type intrudures.Plus i am doubting his agressivness to actually do anything to something that is bigger than him. Interior wise we've always had boxers,which fill all the qualifications of great guard dogs,minus a little light on stopping power and cant handle outdoor cold very well. Opinions?

SLV>GLD | 03-15-2009 02:07 PM
Re: DOGS I hate them because I fear them; Rottweilers. Can you feed it come SHTF?

Ag_man | 03-15-2009 03:01 PM
Re: DOGS I have thought that dogs like border collies, would make the best SHTF dogs. The are very intelligent, adaptable to a variety of tasks and are relatively small. (easy on feed). We have labs and a German Shorthair/Lab mix. All fairly useless in a SHTF situation, but we do love them!

CajunCoin | 03-15-2009 03:46 PM
Re: DOGS A small yappy Chiuahuahua is just a good as a Rottweiller, but what I really need is a dog who will alert me and let me handle the situation, a fighting dog migh just open up a situation where you need to determine the level of the encounter, not the dog, fighting dogs are liable to be poisoned but small noisy dogs kept close at hand will provide to be worth their weight in gold. Geese are a fine example of this, they are a valuable alarm and eat light. Think about why a fighting dog would be a choice, could you feed it, could you protect it? Can you control it?

Ralleia | 03-15-2009 03:59 PM
Re: DOGS Interesting video on dog attack styles: LiveLeak
LiveLeak
Features the bulldog, mastiff, malinois, and dutch shepherd .

sindgefallen | 03-15-2009 07:05 PM
Re: DOGS We have a Rhodesian Ridge back and are extremely satisfied. Great shtf dog. Loyal, disciplined, obedient and protective. Not overly aggressive and is great around children. Our dog rarely barks unless there is a strange person coming around our house. Too each his own though.

Armed.peasant | 03-15-2009 09:42 PM
Re: DOGS I think the key to a good dog is a dog that only alerts when a stranger or strange sounds are detected on your property. My dogs will only bark at a stranger, a strangers voice, or a strange car on the property and more importantly they will not bark again if I ask them to "no bark". I know they would attack someone to protect me, but that would be a last resort. They are better used as alarms.

End of Hope | 03-15-2009 11:07 PM
Re: DOGS Only one kind of "security" dog - http://germanshepherdpuppiesblog.com/files/864374.jpg

TechGuy | 03-15-2009 11:10 PM
Re: DOGS http://www.guineafowl.com/fritsfarm/...otos/loisc.jpg Best watchdogs on the planet. Easy to feed, NO one is sneaking up on you. If I had a few more acres, I would have a flock of them.

CANUCKFARMER | 03-15-2009 11:17 PM
Re: DOGS When you think about it the subject has probably been argued about back into the stone age.

mamboni | 03-15-2009 11:22 PM
Re: DOGS 1 Attachment(s) I love all dogs - they are truly man's best friend. But when one seeks a dog for reasons of security, there is one canine which stands [squats?] above all the rest: the miniature schnauzer. Ferocious, yet cute, the miniature schnauzer combines intelligence and charm into a compact package capable of delivering a devastating attack in a flash. Of all the "mini's," the most cunning, the most feared, is the Grey Miniature Schnauzer, particularly the female. Her skills as guard dog and sentinel are non pareil. It has been said [by me] that the grey mini can detect the sound of a doe farting at 1000 yards, through dense forest, drywall and curtain. I am the proud owner of one of the finer members of this magnificent breed - she agreed to pose for a quick photo in exchange for a milkbone treat, so we are indeed fortunate:

reviver | 03-16-2009 12:54 AM
Re: DOGS Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1627622) When you think about it the subject has probably been argued about back into the stone age.
How true. Such is the bond between us and our canine companions.

TAEZZAR | 03-16-2009 01:36 AM
Re: DOGS 1 Attachment(s) Being new to the forum, I'd just like to add that if you raise any dog to behave, they will. I have this Dobie named Taezzar, sounds like "taser", she is totally harmless, as you can see. However, she will stop ANY STRANGER dead in their tracks when the come onto the property. She has never bitten a human or any animals. Her bark can be heard for 1/2 a mile. The neighbors love her because she only barks when it matters. I prefer a large dog for the intimidation factor & a Dobie is one of the best for that. Juat my 2 cents. TAEZZAR :bear_thumb:

AMforPM | 03-16-2009 07:17 AM
Re: DOGS 2 Attachment(s) We have a great dog getting up in years that the pound thought was a german wire hair pointer chocolate lab mix. I suspect she was the only solid liver in a spotted unregistered litter because she cannot be distinguished in any point of confirmation from pictures of champion gwh pointers, or in instincts. If I did not want to keep poultry I would get another. She is an all around hunting dog - hunts fur or feathers, follows blood trails, points, flushes, and retrieves, and takes care of pest furry invaders. She is not yappy and barks appropriately. But since we want poultry our next dog will likely be the farm collie, lassies unspoiled antecedent that was the standard American farm dog in the 30s. They have a much gentler herding style than border collies and can herd everything from bulls to chicks. And are they ever smart and resourceful. (so is our current dog, but she thinks birds are for eating) Because the farm collie, which I think is now called the 'english shepherd', not to be confused with the hair ball english sheepdog. edit - got ahead of myself and left out a whole concept. Some breeds were bred to be kind of robodog: extremely obedient. They win dog IQ contests for that reason. Poodles and german shepherds are in that general category and they are much easier to train. Other breeds were bred to work independently a lot. The pyranees is an extreme of that, sometimes left in an alpine meadow all summer with part of a flock and the shepherd elsewhere. They are very protective, bred for that profound quiet and do bark too much in our noisy world. They need lower population density to be at their best, but in an isolated bug out retreat, they would guard your stock impeccably. The wire haired pointers were bred to range a large area around a walking human hunter, and think for themselves as to how to best help you hunt. So they decide for themselves when to 'come', for example, sometimes if they are on a trail they consider rewarding to you and them. It is a looser partnership. I consider her IQ through the roof, but she would never win an ordinary obedience prize. I have seen her remember very complex sequences after 1 try, or in another kind of intelligence, put a toddler dying to pet her at ease by lying down near the child with her back turned and pretending to sleep as the kid inches up and clumsily pets her. Being on the front side, I could see her eyes were open, but not wide. It was all a ruse as a kindness to the child. The farm or english collies have that 'think for yourself' kind of intelligence too, which border collies, being bred to win trials working with a handler, have had bred pretty well out of them. I consider that a loss, but they are more likely to do as told without variance, while the breeds meant to work without you (scotties are another) have the defect of deciding when to mind that is also a plus if, say, a terrible storm blows up when you told them to hold poultry in a grazing area and you are not there to change the orders. Anyway, since they are brilliant dogs, english collies will learn even unfenced bounds and hold your stock there and protect it, and make 'executive decisions' like taking the animals in its care to the barn if some danger arises, they are a superb help with domestic stock of all kinds, and protective without being mean. However, they are not very big, so we are still debating whether to take on feeding a german shepherd or rottweiler companion. We want only dogs of herding heritage for the safety of the hens. A bird dog is gonna be a bird dog no matter how hard it tries, and will slip up eventually if kept with poultry. Or most will. Plus I consider it cruel to ask a dog to act against its instinct that severely. wikipedia on the breed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Shepherd Quote:
Oct. 6 1921 "Dear Sir: I was always going to write you about that grand pup you sent us. A few months after he arrived here he always went out with us to get the cows at milking time in the evening, without me even telling him to go. He just opens the door and goes to get them. He don't run the cows like some do, but comes with them just like a man. We got a heifer we never milked before and all he did was to get our ten milk cows home every night. We went with him to get the heifer last night and tonight he got it himself with the other cows. He is 22 inches tall weights 45 lbs. We paid you $12.00 for him but would not sell him for again as much. Just as you wrote, he don't need much training." -- Ernest Thisius
Quote:
July 14, 1919: "Dear Sir: Your inquiry of July 4th at hand. The dog I got from you is not a first class heeler. He usually nips above the hock joint. You asked if I wanted to sell him. Well I have been asked that question a great many times, but money will not buy him. He is a good all around dog, works on any kind of stock from a chicken up. Makes no difference what kind of a job we have for him, he is always ready for work. I never do any driving of cattle; always leave that job to Beaver. All I do is open the gates and barn doors. Beaver puts them any place I want them. He always carries mail, hammers, wood and anything he can carry. Our farm contains 480 acres and Beaver goes any place on the farm for the cattle. I sure am well pleased with him and if ever in need of another dog will give you my order." --A.C. Davis, Hazen, N.D.
Quote:
"What breed of dogs could be more helpful, more intelligent, more courageous, active, engergetic, more beautiful than the old fashion black and tan, glossy coated English Shepherd?... eager to do their awaiting jobs whether it be step-saving jobs down on the farm, bringing in the cows, rounding up the chickens and turkeys, keeping a watchful brown eye on the old sow and pigs (seeing that the naughty old fox doesn't steal away a pig) or just dashing away into the woods for hunting the squirrels, coons, or what have you, even better still just being a companion to the young and old alike..." D.C. Busby, Mize, Mississippi
Quote:
"The Kennels were founded in 1918 by my father, Will Isley, after he had tried several breeds of farm dogs including the German Shepherd and the Collie. He found the German Shepherds to be too vicious and undependable and the Collie to be too timid and easily discouraged. The English Shepherd strikes a happy medium, can be easily trained for stock driving, is an excellent watch dog for guarding home and property, and is a wonderful pet and guard for children. They have a natural instinct to hunt rats and mice, and can be trained for hunting coon, rabbits, birds, and other game. We have even had customers in the northern country purchase and use Shepherds to keep deer and bear away from their homes and gardens." --George Isley, Cedar Falls, Iowa
So we may just stick with 1 easier feeder at about 45 pounds. Dad had one growing up and would walk the border of the area he wanted the stock to graze that day, and his dog held them there. Then after bringing in the stock they hunted at twilight and the dog would run rabbits past him or tree a squirrel for him. The only downside of a true working dog is that they love to work and their intelligence turns to mischief if they are left alone long hours with no work or companionship. So you need one at home family member, or stock for them to tend in your absence or get a lazier breed.

AMforPM | 03-16-2009 07:37 AM
Re: DOGS Welcome, TAEZZAR. The dobies I have known have been sweet natured dogs. I think the mean ones were made mean by a mean or neglectful human, in most cases. Canuck, unless you have an unusual dog, if someone hit you or tried to hurt your livestock I think your dog would be very likely to injure or kill them. Just not for being where they shouldn't. Historically they sometimes killed would be sheep thieves. Of course it depends on how you have trained it too, and its individual personality vs breed type.

hypervel | 03-16-2009 01:37 PM
Re: DOGS Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunCoin (Post 1626851) A small yappy Chiuahuahua is just a good as a Rottweiller, but what I really need is a dog who will alert me and let me handle the situation, a fighting dog migh just open up a situation where you need to determine the level of the encounter, not the dog, fighting dogs are liable to be poisoned but small noisy dogs kept close at hand will provide to be worth their weight in gold. Geese are a fine example of this, they are a valuable alarm and eat light. Think about why a fighting dog would be a choice, could you feed it, could you protect it? Can you control it?
I knew somebody would beat me to this. "Cept the geese. You're right about them, but constant decent living conditions makes for a bad time>>>>dogs kill geese.

Ralleia | 03-16-2009 01:55 PM
Re: DOGS Quote:
Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 1627632) I love all dogs - they are truly man's best friend. But when one seeks a dog for reasons of security, there is one canine which stands [squats?] above all the rest: the miniature schnauzer. Ferocious, yet cute, the miniature schnauzer combines intelligence and charm into a compact package capable of delivering a devastating attack in a flash. Of all the "mini's," the most cunning, the most feared, is the Grey Miniature Schnauzer, particularly the female. Her skills as guard dog and sentinel are non pareil. It has been said [by me] that the grey mini can detect the sound of a doe farting at 1000 yards, through dense forest, drywall and curtain. I am the proud owner of one of the finer members of this magnificent breed - she agreed to pose for a quick photo in exchange for a milkbone treat, so we are indeed fortunate:
She is beauuuuutiful. And she has such an intelligent and stalwart glint in the eye! I am smitten.

ImaCannin | 03-16-2009 02:28 PM
Re: DOGS 7 Attachment(s) My idea of a good SHTF dog is..... A dog that will watch! Attachment 65902 They will also help you keep the stock rounded up! Attachment 65901 They make you laugh when their is nothing else to do! Attachment 65903 Attachment 65905 Of course, they have to be able to handle a SHTF vehicle. Attachment 65906 Or just look pretty doing what comes natural. Attachment 65907 The Australian Shepherd is a good all round dog. They want to be with you more than anything. They are great foot/bed warmers. Willing to do anything you want. They are the best watch dogs. There have been times when my dog let me know they dont like someone and would stand between me and that person and would not let them get close to me.

mamboni | 03-16-2009 02:49 PM
Re: DOGS Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralleia (Post 1628531) She is beauuuuutiful. And she has such an intelligent and stalwart glint in the eye! I am smitten.
Thank you! Her name is Missy and she is 7 years old. I have two other dogs, a giant black schnauzer male who is 2, and black miniature schnauzer female who is just 1. Missy is the "old grey lady" of the house who we variously refer to as "the old lady," "Missy," "the professional schnauzer" or "bitch," because she lets the other two dogs know that she is in charge. The other two are inseparable and play for hours together; Missy stays to herself and is rather disdainful of the playful youngest one. Missy is very smart - I mean scary smart - and she is far and away the smartest of the three (the giant is a big lovable goofball). And she is a real sneaky rascal, finding ways to steal candy, socks, stuffed animals and other items from places she seemingly had no way to access. Also, she is a talker, and has different sounding barks depending on whether she wants to go out, water, food, or join you on the chair or bed. At night, she jumps into our bed next to me under the covers and proceeds to ritualistically lick my face, neck and chest for about 10 minutes before she plops down next to me and falls asleep. Most of the time, she is rather aloof and quirky, and will not let me pick her up unless I offer her a treat or greenie (the latter make her crazy!) - she is a real bitch!!!!:111:

SLV>GLD | 03-16-2009 02:54 PM
Re: DOGS Am I the only one around here who keeps the dogs out of my bed?

CAVU | 03-16-2009 04:21 PM
Re: DOGS The South African Boerboel is a guard/ranch dog that can stop any intruder in thier tracks. They are similar to a bull mastiff but are a lot more active and live longer. They have an incredible tolerance for pain. They need a strong willed person to handle them though. http://users.skynet.be/maklikreg.boe..._2006BERRE.jpg Also agree on the Mini schnauzer are one of the best watch dogs. Smart and very aware of thier surroundings. Have an ear piercing bark , built stout , agile and fast. Being suspicious of strangers makes a good watch dog. http://www.puppyparadise.com/images/...rocket300b.jpg

MorganTheGoat | 03-16-2009 04:49 PM
Re: DOGS 1 Attachment(s) In my experience, 95% of people are scared sh*tless of big black dogs. My Shepherd/Rotty mix is super fierce and protective. The lab, not so much...

SLV>GLD | 03-16-2009 05:13 PM
Re: DOGS Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganTheGoat (Post 1628799) In my experience, 95% of people are scared sh*tless of big black dogs. My Shepherd/Rotty mix is super fierce and protective. The lab, not so much...
I'm specifically scared sh!tless of big black dogs with frickin' laser beams for eyes. :)

mamboni | 03-16-2009 05:24 PM
Re: DOGS Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1628848) I'm specifically scared sh!tless of big black dogs with frickin' laser beams for eyes. :)
You sound like Dr. Evil: "C'mon people, throw me a frickin' bone here - all I wanted was frickin' big black dogs with frickin' laser beams for eyes!"

Ag_man | 03-16-2009 05:27 PM
Re: DOGS Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM (Post 1627953) But since we want poultry our next dog will likely be the farm collie, lassies unspoiled antecedent that was the standard American farm dog in the 30s. They have a much gentler herding style than border collies and can herd everything from bulls to chicks. And are they ever smart and resourceful. (so is our current dog, but she thinks birds are for eating) Because the farm collie, which I think is now called the 'english shepherd', not to be confused with the hair ball english sheepdog.
Thanks AM for your post, that clears up a lot of things for me, regarding this breed of dog. My grandfather and other farmers in his area of S. Dakota had dogs like these, I always called them "farm dogs", as I'm sure they weren't purebred. In my inital post in the thread, I mentioned "border collie" type dogs, while I was thinking about the dog you describe. They truly are all-purpose dogs and do love to work!

Ralleia | 03-16-2009 05:29 PM
Re: DOGS Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1628848) I'm specifically scared sh!tless of big black dogs with frickin' laser beams for eyes. :)
Yeah--didn't one those dogs star in one of the Harry Potter movies as "The Grim?"

MorganTheGoat | 03-16-2009 06:12 PM
Re: DOGS 1 Attachment(s) Lasers activated... heh :wink:

mamboni | 03-16-2009 07:13 PM
Re: DOGS Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganTheGoat (Post 1628947) Lasers activated... heh :wink:
I'd say that's a pretty intimidating sight: "nice pooch....nice pooch" (said with quiet calming tone while planning an escape).

CANUCKFARMER | 03-16-2009 09:23 PM
Re: DOGS I dont know,i've worked with dogs and looks and info in books isnt always usefull. Some dogs out there will simply go to the wall for their human family i dont know about the pyranees breed,boxers and boxer types are what i trust. Might get a pit before they are outlawed.Also talked to a guy who actively breeds mastiffs and cane corsos for an ultimate stopping machine.

scyth | 03-16-2009 09:24 PM
Re: DOGS Owning big dogs - and a cautionary tale or two. Owned dogs all my life, Everything from heelers and aussie sheperds to Cairn terriers to Irish water spaniels to Akitas. Akitas are my all time favorites. They are not herd dogs. They were bred for hunting big game (boar, bear) and defense. Massive structure combined with massive intelligence. The ones I've owned only bark once. That is the one warning you get before the s...t goes down. O.K. Now the cautionary part. I haven't kept an Akita for the last 5 years. Reason? Big dogs are very time intensive, and you can't just let them run. Unless you can commit to that, don't even go there. My present job, unfortunately, does not allow me adequate time to handle Akitas on a daily basis. Cautionary part II: Big dogs are generally herd/pack animals. By this I mean That they behave - or misbehave - according to a strict hierarchy Governed by an alpha male/female. The two Akitas I started with were both being given away by owners Who characterized them as "uncontrollable." Not true. It was the humans who lacked control. Diana, the female, weighed about 70 lbs., and was chained With an 8' log chain to a 2" galvanized iron pipe driven into the ground, When I first met her. Her owner was mighty nervous about me even getting close. So I squatted down and just talked - By the way in my experience extended direct eye contact with dogs Of this sort is serious threat language. After awhile I stood up and she came up to me I unhooked the log chain and clipped a light leash to her collar, And asked her to heel, gently brought her to heel, And down the hill we went. At one point I looked back and her previous owner was just Standing there trying to pick his face up off the ground. I laughed, and Diana grinned. Random, the male was just a big (130 lb.) goof. Similar experience, but without leash, just grabbed his collar And away we went. Now, life in the pack. So I have this houseful of Akitas, six of them, Because Random and Diana had their first litter. The only male pup, Fugu, was huge from day one. 18 months later he was 167 pounds dry weight, full of teenage Testosterone, and spoiling for a fight with his Dad. Alpha male stuff kicking in. Random warned him off a few times. Then one evening just after work all hell broke loose. Fugu went for Random - this went down in the living room - And lamps chairs coffee tables and the 300 pounds of dogs were airborne. As was me. I lit into both of them and within 60 seconds they were in opposite corners Prone and absolutely contrite. Because the actual Alpha male has just stepped In and kicked their butts. And they never even got close to it again. I had a nasty two sided puncture in my right forearm, from which one I do not know. Now the above is not a boast, it is what it is like, in my experience, To handle big dogs without bad consequences. By the way, I am not a professional dog handler, and would strongly suggest That if you plan on getting a dog, or have a dog that you are having problems with, Study up and find a pro. By the way, worst dogbite I ever got was from a Dachshund which Came out of nowhere when I was walking down the sidewalk of A residential street and absolutely bit the crap out of my calf Through jeans and everything, severing a major vein in the process. I'll get off the soapbox now. scyth

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Armed.peasant | 03-16-2009 09:41 PM
Re: DOGS 1 Attachment(s) More lasers:

SLV>GLD | 03-16-2009 10:27 PM
Re: DOGS A pack of wild Jack Russells is said to be the most deadly dog force known to man. In the good ole days they would rampage through a city and if they happened upon you at the wrong time you got disemboweled.

TAEZZAR | 03-16-2009 11:07 PM
Re: DOGS 2 Attachment(s) Thanks for the welcome AMforPM, Yes, my experience with Dobies & other breeds is you get what you give. We treat her as family, as I can see many of the other dogs posted are so treated too. A good dog of any breed is a pleasure to behold. However, here is a "dog" that is aggresive no matter how you raise him !!! He has no fear of ANYTHING !! And once you've had one for a few years & learn how to "read" them, a Macaw, in day light, will alert you of almost anything that moves. TAEZZAR :emotions16:

RoadKing | 03-17-2009 04:57 AM
Re: DOGS 'Nuff said..... http://www.appscout.com/images/chipmunk.gif

lessoil=+pm | 03-17-2009 06:39 AM
Re: DOGS Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1626685) The dog kennel thread reminded me of something i wanted to ask. Whats your favourite dog for when "it" happens? We have a pyranees for our outdoors and he is one great dog for keeping out other animals and was born to kill coyotes and racoons. The problem is he barks all the time so if "it" ever happened there would be to many false alarms for bio-pod type intrudures.Plus i am doubting his agressivness to actually do anything to something that is bigger than him. Interior wise we've always had boxers,which fill all the qualifications of great guard dogs,minus a little light on stopping power and cant handle outdoor cold very well. Opinions?
we have a pyranees. they do a perimeter bark i think." i'm here u stay away". their bark is different for various situations & for us our other dogs can tell & i can some[listen for intensity]. they are not primarily know as attack dogs but take on bears to protect. it is very difficult for animals/dogs to hurt them due to hair. & very very alert at night!!! & sweet, loving! they will stay between intruder & those they care for.

AMforPM | 03-17-2009 08:33 AM
Re: DOGS Canuck While I agree with the above that your P would likely protect you, for pure brave protection w/o dangerous meanness, you might look into Airedales. They were bred to go in with a pack of other types of dogs hunting dangerous game, and stay and die for you if something went wrong. They were used on tiger hunts and in the US, mountain lion hunts. Yet they do poorly as police or war dogs because they just aren't mean. In WW1 they were used as messenger dogs and some came in with legs missing, but completed their mission before bleeding to death. They will stand by you when the chips are down, but not growl at your friends over nothing. Only if something or someone is attacking do they step up. Their worst fault, IMO, is they have doggie hair odor off the charts if not bathed a lot. I'm glad the english shepherd, or farm collie, is remembered. The Aussie shep is a close relative. IMO the border collie has been ruined by the competitions taking over the champion lines for too many generations.

mamboni | 03-17-2009 09:28 AM
Re: DOGS 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1629403) A pack of wild Jack Russells is said to be the most deadly dog force known to man. In the good ole days they would rampage through a city and if they happened upon you at the wrong time you got disemboweled.
Could a pack of wild Jack Russells withstand the enormous ferocity of one miniature schnauzer?

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