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Hivemindgammahydra7 | 06-14-2007 09:22 PM
What if our mercenaries turn on us? "Mercenary units are a vital instrument in the hands of despotic movements. Communist and fascist movements during the last century each built rogue paramilitary forces. And the appearance of Blackwater fighters, heavily armed and wearing their trademark black uniforms, patrolling the streets of New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, may be a grim taste of the future. In New Orleans Blackwater charged the government $240,000 a day." http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/060407J.shtml

Kahlil Gibran | 06-14-2007 09:27 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? 1 Attachment(s) Attachment 29689 http://www.tulanelink.com/tulanelink/blackwater_box.htm

REV127 | 06-14-2007 09:35 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Parts is parts. What do I care if it's an official government employee or a private contractor trying to make my life miserable? There are a number of dangerous men living in America. They currently just want to be left alone and enjoy their life, at most they might just talk a little. If/when the feds decide to force the issue the gloves come off. As to the shape the nation takes politically and geographically after such a breakdown of civility I can offer no particular insight. The stormtroopers will drop like flies though, I can tell you that.

Maddie | 06-14-2007 10:33 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? I agree with Rev. New Orleans served as a warning shot across the bow to anyone who still believed civil rights and law will be honored if those in government perceive themselves losing control of a situation. If there is a breakdown of civility, and the JBTs turn on us, we'll see guerilla warfare in our cities. What worries me, however, is that this is gradually happening without a breakdown in civility. We're already being conditioned to seeing LEOs in paramilitary gear walking our streets. Kids growing up today will think nothing of seeing "soldiers" with automatic weapons on the street because they'll have grown up with it. Last summer, the "anti-terrorist task force" was patrolling the local public rapid transit train stations dressed like that. No one seemed to bat an eye except me and some older folks. I asked a 40s-ish woman if she didn't find the sight disturbing, and she thought for a couple of seconds, then her eyes got wide and she said, "Oh my God...I didn't even think about it, but you're right! This isn't right! It's scary...it's like the Nazis in Germany, you know...Oh my God." She wouldn't have even noticed if I hadn't asked her what she thought of it, but she went on to comment about how this country is in trouble and she thought bad times were coming. We're already being hemmed in by hundreds of new anti-terrorist laws, laws most of us don't even know were passed until too late. Americans are becoming more distrustful and fearful of their own government. There's a growing perception, I think, that the US government has turned on the US citizenship. What worries me is that there won't be a galvanizing event, something that attracts all of the citizenship's attention and defiance at the same time. I'm afraid that things will continue as they are until it's too late because no one is sure when to act. My husband tells me not to post stuff like this online because "someday you could get in trouble for it." I tell him that's a risk I have to take. If I don't, they've already won. See you in the gulag!

Kahlil Gibran | 06-14-2007 10:48 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 637889) What worries me is that there won't be a galvanizing event, something that attracts all of the citizenship's attention and defiance at the same time. I'm afraid that things will continue as they are until it's too late because no one is sure when to act.
Nah...don't underestimate the mob. Rodney King anger burned down city blocks in Los Angeles for days. Now everybody despises authority. It will spread like wildfire. Whitey will even participate in the next one. Some fat cop will set it off.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 06-14-2007 11:03 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddie (Post 637889) My husband tells me not to post stuff like this online because "someday you could get in trouble for it."
I for one am very glad that you - as with others here - speak your mind, Maddie. You are a constant encouragement to me. Quote:
See you in the gulag!
Well, should it come to that, you'll see me along the road TO the gulag, I'm afraid. You will recognize me by the numerous .223 holes in my corpse, left for the buzzards and swinging by the neck from a streetlight with a sign hung around my neck which reads: He wasn't with us, he was against us! :bear_sad:

Maddie | 06-15-2007 06:44 AM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Yeah, I don't expect I'll make it there alive, either.

Tn...Andy | 06-15-2007 08:02 AM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 637836) There are a number of dangerous men living in America. They currently just want to be left alone and enjoy their life, at most they might just talk a little. If/when the feds decide to force the issue the gloves come off.
Yep. ....................

GB1980 | 06-15-2007 08:24 AM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Over reacting on all accounts. If the local law enforcement fails to do their job like in N.O. then the National Guard or the mercs take control in the short term. Why do you think that the National Guard is called up--the locals can't handle the crisis at hand. N.O and the state of Louisiana knew what was going to happen and failed to get ready--total chaos. There are not enough home grown (US) mercs to take control of any major city or state in this country.

rodin | 06-15-2007 08:38 AM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by GB1980 (Post 638080) Over reacting on all accounts. If the local law enforcement fails to do their job like in N.O. then the National Guard or the mercs take control in the short term. Why do you think that the National Guard is called up--the locals can't handle the crisis at hand. N.O and the state of Louisiana knew what was going to happen and failed to get ready--total chaos. There are not enough home grown (US) mercs to take control of any major city or state in this country.
Are you saying 1) N.O. gov knew what was going to happen (levee break)? 2) We need foreign mercs because there are not enough homegrown?

Goldfinger | 06-15-2007 08:45 AM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by GB1980 (Post 638080) Over reacting on all accounts. If the local law enforcement fails to do their job like in N.O. then the National Guard or the mercs take control in the short term. Why do you think that the National Guard is called up--the locals can't handle the crisis at hand. N.O and the state of Louisiana knew what was going to happen and failed to get ready--total chaos. There are not enough home grown (US) mercs to take control of any major city or state in this country.
Oh c'mon now, don't ruin the internet Rambo fantasy. The truth is that in the event that civilization ever breaks down and/or we see an armed revolution, I can assure you it won't be the internet Rambos that save the day. Rather, it will be current and ex military, police and yes even mercs that will get the job done. In the unlikely event that the internet Rambos muster up enough cahones to actually pick up a weapon, in all likely hood they won't last long enough to make a difference with it. It just ain't like the movies folks!

GB1980 | 06-15-2007 08:46 AM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by rodin (Post 638096) Are you saying 1) N.O. gov knew what was going to happen (levee break)? 2) We need foreign mercs because there are not enough homegrown?
1. NO---I mean that they knew the storm was coming towards them 5 days before it hit. Not necessarily directly upon them but definitely aimed in their general direction. The levee breaking was an effect of the storm surge. 2. NO---just that we don't have that many mercs in this country to make a difference in law enforcement on a grand scale anywhere in this country. Small bands of mercs could take over small towns of a few thousand and that is about all.

GB1980 | 06-15-2007 08:48 AM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfinger (Post 638101) Oh c'mon now, don't ruin the internet Rambo fantasy. The truth is that in the event that civilization ever breaks down and/or we see an armed revolution, I can assure you it won't be the internet Rambos that save the day. Rather, it will be current and ex military, police and yes even mercs that will get the job done. In the unlikely event that the internet Rambos muster up enough cahones to actually pick up a weapon, in all likely hood they won't last long enough to make a difference with it. It just ain't like the movies folks!
AGREE wholeheartedly!!!!!!!!!!!!

Goldfinger | 06-15-2007 08:56 AM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by rodin (Post 638096) Are you saying 1) N.O. gov knew what was going to happen (levee break)? 2) We need foreign mercs because there are not enough homegrown?
I'd be more fearful of UN troops on our soil. If our police, military and/or home grown mercs were ever turned on the people, there would be defections by the droves. They would serve as the backbone of any effective resistence and/or deterent. Anyone remember the 1991 Soviet coup?

Kahlil Gibran | 06-15-2007 09:22 AM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfinger (Post 638101) Oh c'mon now, don't ruin the internet Rambo fantasy.
Attachment 29703 My Survivalist Preps include a kelvar camo mouse pad

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 06-15-2007 12:57 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Our aspiring GS-1811-05/07's have joined the discussion, I see...

REV127 | 06-15-2007 03:33 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfinger (Post 638101) Oh c'mon now, don't ruin the internet Rambo fantasy. The truth is that in the event that civilization ever breaks down and/or we see an armed revolution, I can assure you it won't be the internet Rambos that save the day. Rather, it will be current and ex military, police and yes even mercs that will get the job done. In the unlikely event that the internet Rambos muster up enough cahones to actually pick up a weapon, in all likely hood they won't last long enough to make a difference with it. It just ain't like the movies folks!
Your central thesis is incorrect. A revolutionary is something very distinct from a professional soldier or policeman. A successful rebelion against a major power in the current era will look nothing like conventional warfare as you know it and I suspect firearms will play only a minor roll.

mtnman | 06-15-2007 04:02 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 638278) Our aspiring GS-1811-05/07's have joined the discussion, I see...
Yep, looks that way.

gunner | 06-15-2007 04:12 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 638414) Your central thesis is incorrect. A revolutionary is something very distinct from a professional soldier or policeman. A successful rebelion against a major power in the current era will look nothing like conventional warfare as you know it and I suspect firearms will play only a minor roll.
True - head on firearm confrontations with an overwhelmingly superior force usually end very quickly and decisively.

Maddie | 06-15-2007 05:11 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 638414) Your central thesis is incorrect. A revolutionary is something very distinct from a professional soldier or policeman. A successful rebelion against a major power in the current era will look nothing like conventional warfare as you know it and I suspect firearms will play only a minor roll.
And again, we agree. I suspect the last people who will get the job done will be the local LEOs! What I see as most likely happening isn't a NO-like breakdown anyway. I think it will be a slow tightening of the noose met with civil disobedience and sabotage when it becomes extreme enough. I wouldn't even discount "armchair Rambos." A 14-year-old armchair Rambo/hacker can wreck havoc halfway across the world. Should it come to the other type, guerilla wars aren't fought primarily by trained soldiers and mercenaries, and we would do well to note that we, the most powerful military might in the world, haven't really won a ground war since we've come up against guerilla warfare tactics. Don't underestimate what an angry populace can do when it has the will to fight.

Goldfinger | 06-15-2007 05:32 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 638278) Our aspiring GS-1811-05/07's have joined the discussion, I see...
Do you actually even know any? Or did you just stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night? Stop and think for one moment, what exactly are these private security firms. They're militias. Who is the biggest and most well documented opponent to private militias/security firms? The UN. Excuse me for not stepping in line with the rest of the sheep here, but wonder why the UN isn't so fond of private security firms? For that matter, why is it they are so opposed to private citizens even so much as owning firearms? Careful what you wish for! Rev127, I think you are absolutely right. Warfare is and will continue to take on a very different look. We were however, talking in the context of mercenaries turning on us. In the context, I do still strongly disagree that a professional soldier and a revolutionary have to be mutually exclusive. I've drawn that opinion from having personally known a few. While certainly not choir boys, I can't see at least the ones I know filling a Brownshirts or Gestapo type roll. In fact, I find the suggestion ludicrous.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 06-15-2007 06:04 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Indeed, nothing to worry about, all is very well. Mercenaries = liberty and safety. And up is down, left is right, Heaven is Hell, and God is the Devil.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 06-15-2007 06:06 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfinger (Post 638526) Do you actually even know any?
Shall I include you in the actual number?

gunner | 06-15-2007 06:10 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfinger (Post 638526) Do you actually even know any? Or did you just stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night? .
Goldfinger - I disagree with you but that was F'n funny !!!!!:rofl: :rofl:

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 06-15-2007 06:11 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfinger (Post 638526) Who is the biggest and most well documented opponent to private militias/security firms? The UN. Excuse me for not stepping in line with the rest of the sheep here, but wonder why the UN isn't so fond of private security firms?
If you did your homework you'd know that the World Government clique has been head over heels in love with mercenaries for over 10 years. They've made their views on the subject and their plans for the future all very well known in the statist mouthpiece publications which articulate their globalist views to the world: Foreign Affairs, Foreign Policy, and a number of others. They've been more than transparent about it, and the use of mercenaries from Kandahar to the French Quarter are completely aligned with what they always said they wanted to do. For anyone who's informed themselves and paid attention the dots are very easily connected. The UN's public proclamations of disdain for mercenaries is rhetorical and intended to fool pseudo-intellectuals who don't read.

Goldfinger | 06-15-2007 06:38 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 638544) Indeed, nothing to worry about, all is very well. Mercenaries = liberty and safety. And up is down, left is right, Heaven is Hell, and God is the Devil.
Actually, they do represent liberty and safety. The way I see it, they are simply taking advantage of their Constitutional right to bear arms and form a private militia. I have no problem with that. The only problem I have, is that they are not held accountable for their actions in the context of the business in which they are engaged. Absolutely they should have the same accountability as any grunt on the ground or police officer on the street. IMO, the problem here isn't with these companies, they're simply yet another tool. Rather, ultimately the problem as I see it is their client, who is making up the rules as they go along. Accountability starts at the top. Oh and no Hive, I'm afraid I'm no merc...

REV127 | 06-15-2007 08:40 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? Active duty soldiers and LEO's are much more likely to follow orders than turn on the badguys in command. It's an unfortunate, painful truth. Ex-soldiers and LEO's can go either way but if you're talking about revolution than their backgrounds won't necessarily convey any special aptitude for the work at hand. This goes back to what Maddie was saying, I'd make recruiting hackers, system administrators, electricians, mechanics and chemists a higher priority. The bottom line here to me is the mercs and as I said it doesn't make much difference who a given JBT is working for from the perspective of the oppressed. Beyond that they aren't really any special threat. For that matter very few people really know their trade. Mercs are just another part of the equation.

Kahlil Gibran | 06-15-2007 08:46 PM
Re: What if our mercenaries turn on us? 1 Attachment(s) Attachment 29731 .....................

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