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TechGuy | 10-17-2008 09:29 PM
Generator thoughts Ok, I'll probably take some flack for this, but hey.... During Ike, my new coleman powermate gas generator failed shortly after the lights went out, and although we thought we were prepared, we were not. My wifes church brought us a small generator, and then, thankfully a neighbor took me to his shop and we picked up a small diesel generator and it worked flawlessly for the rest of the week. So now I need a new genset. Looked at PTO generators, standalone diesel generators, whole house standby propane units etc. Brand name diesel gensets for running 3k+, and then there were the storage and portability problems of the PTO's. Finally decided I could not drop 3k or more on a diesel PTO or brand name genset. I started looking around and saw a lot of the chinese made gensets available. While I was skeptical, I did just use one of the import chinese gensets for a week with NO issues. That was much better than my powermate assembled in IN, which is now a boat anchor since powermate is now out of business. I looked around for some better gensets, but found that nealry every portable genset head is now made in china. I even called several of the 'Made in America' brands offices. When it got down to brass tacs, I could not find ANY made in the USA, that we in my price range. Settled on a allpower 6500 diesel generator with a yanmar clone engine. Of course they are just the importer, most of these little gensets seem to be made by one or two factories in China and then custom branded after import. Before ordering I called the CA headquarters and talked to customer service and the warranty/parts departments. At least I could talk to a real person, and they answered on the 3rd ring. I recieved the unit earlier this week. Total drive out price was 1399. I decrated the unit, added oil and gas and immediately ran the unit for a few hours. NO ISSUES. This little unit runs great, and has at least average build quality. We wil see how it does, I plan to run it at least 15 more hours this weekend and do an oil change on it. http://cdn.overstock.com/images/prod.../P11185683.jpg

AlterEgo | 10-17-2008 09:39 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Is it a low RPM (1,800) Unit? Also where did ya get it? tanks

TechGuy | 10-17-2008 09:41 PM
Re: Generator thoughts One side note: It was an eye opening and frustrating experience to try to go for something with a USA origin that is comparable to 20% more than the China competitor. It is beyond me that the USA cannot or will not produce anything. Went today looking for a new vacuum cleaner. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? These things are a complete joke!!!! So much CRAP now, made in China, made to be disposable. I don't know, maybe we are getting what we deserve since we have abandoned all production in favor of toss and replace.

TechGuy | 10-17-2008 09:43 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterEgo (Post 1365503) Is it a low RPM (1,800) Unit? Also where did ya get it? tanks
3600 rpm. I haven't seen any low rpm consumer grade portable gensets. Not saying they dont exist, but not through normal channels. Bought it from overstock of all places. Northern Tools, and a few other places sold them, but the big O was selling for no tax and 2.95 delivery on this 300+ pound generator. As in 2 dollars and 95 cents.

AlterEgo | 10-17-2008 09:53 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1365514) 3600 rpm. I haven't seen any low rpm consumer grade portable gensets. Not saying they dont exist, but not through normal channels. Bought it from overstock of all places. Northern Tools, and a few other places sold them, but the big O was selling for no tax and 2.95 delivery on this 300+ pound generator. As in 2 dollars and 95 cents.
I haven't seen any either, that is why I asked. I have the latest Northern catalog, but will check out overstock. http://www.the3006cafe.org/Smileys/c...wesomework.gif

TechGuy | 10-17-2008 09:59 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by AlterEgo (Post 1365528) I haven't seen any either, that is why I asked. I have the latest Northern catalog, but will check out overstock. http://www.the3006cafe.org/Smileys/c...wesomework.gif
Northern tool was cheaper on price, but would have charged tax and wanted 175+ for shipping. That was the deal killer. I will probably go ahead and order some spare parts, like the glow plug, generator capacitor, etc. Probably worth spending a little more for a little stockpile.

rad | 10-17-2008 10:06 PM
Re: Generator thoughts I was looking at these http://www.generatorsales.com/order/lister_catalog.html http://www.poweranand.com/ http://utterpower.com/listeroi.htm want but dont have

TechGuy | 10-17-2008 10:11 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by rad (Post 1365545) I was looking at these http://www.generatorsales.com/order/lister_catalog.html http://www.poweranand.com/ http://utterpower.com/listeroi.htm want but dont have
One of the criteria was that it could be running asap. I would like to build one as a hobby project. It looks like fun.

StackerKen | 10-17-2008 10:18 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Great deal on the shipping Tech Guy Looks like a good one We have a Electric start Troy Bilt 8000 watt Gas Generator. with a 15 HP Briggs & Stratton Vanguard� OHV engine (probably Made in China Also.) Had for about as year now and haven't needed yet. But I start it once a month and run it for a bit, just to make sure its gonna starthttp://www.bsppwebtools.com/data/products/030247_md.jpg When we built this House I got a Cheapie 5000 watt Craftsman Gen. (Also Made in China) The first two winters here the Power went out quite a few times. it was nice to have in those times. Last winter the power went out and I couldn't get the Damn thing started! So I went out and got this one. Haven't needed it yet. the Craftsmen is sitting in our Seatrain container.

StackerKen | 10-17-2008 10:20 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Does Diesil fuel store well? Do they make additives for it that make it last?

TechGuy | 10-17-2008 10:28 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by traderken (Post 1365564) Does Diesil fuel store well? Do they make additives for it that make it last?
Diesel is much more stable than gas, and does not have the explosive fumes and high expansion rates that gasoline does. Gasoline with ethanol is a nightmare to store, as it degrades rather quickly. I would never attempt to store 100 gallons of gasoline around my home. I am using 2 55gallon drums that formerly stored hydraulic fluid. As soon as I get them in place I am using PRI-D additive with the diesel. That should give me diesel that is good for several years minimum. PRI claims that when added regularly and properly stored, it will last indefinitely.

Armed.peasant | 10-17-2008 10:49 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Good to see you found some drums for your fuel storage, TN Andy told me about the PRID and I now add it to all my stored diesel fuel. I have a couple of Honda generators, a bigger one and a small one that is an EU unit. The EU is very quiet and that is a huge asset for so many reasons. I have never had any issues with either unit the EU has around 5000 hours on it, it burns a little oil, but runs perfect. The bigger one is 12 years old and starts right up and runs great. I like the thoughts of the Diesel, due to the fuel storge aspects. Both of mine are gas burners. Let us know how it holds up.

nub | 10-17-2008 10:57 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by traderken (Post 1365564) Does Diesil fuel store well? Do they make additives for it that make it last?
Diesel stores very well, put a little "juice" in it to keep fungus from growing and it will last a long long time.....years. TechGuy, for an awesome vacuum !!....got to commercialvacuum.com, ask for Arty he's the owner and quite a character, you'll never meet a person who knows more about vacuums than him.......check out the century 400 it's German built works like a champ and rugged as all get out. We bought 2 from him, we also bought a back pack vac, the Proteam superquatervac The century is an upright vac that we use for all the carpeted areas the back pac vac is used for everything else The century upright is the exact same thing as a windsor....top a the line commercial vacuums, the century costs around $375.00 Uprights are the way to go for carpeted homes......back pac vacs are better for hard floors, walls and blinds The Proteam back pac costs about the same....around $375.00 I could type all night what I know about vacuums ......I've owned them all includind Kirby, Dyson and Oreck....we had problems with them all ,but I can't deny that the kirby is built like a tank. If you have predominantly hard floors inquire about a back pac vac.

TechGuy | 10-17-2008 10:59 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by nub (Post 1365594) Diesel stores very well, put a little "juice" in it to keep fungus from growing and it will last a long long time.....years. TechGuy, for an awesome vacuum !!....got to commercialvacuum.com, ask for Arty he's the owner and quite a character, you'll never meet a person who knows more about vacuums than him.......check out the century 400 it's German built works like a champ and rugged as all get out. We bought 2 from him, we also bought a back pack vac, the Proteam superquatervac The century is an upright vac that we use for all the carpeted areas the back pac vac is used for everything else The century upright is the exact same thing as a windsor....top a the line commercial vacuums, the century costs around $375.00 Uprights are the way to go for carpeted homes......back pac vacs are better for hard floors, walls and blinds The Proteam back pac costs about the same....around $375.00 I could type all night what I know about vacuums ......I've owned them all includind Kirby, Dyson and Oreck....we had problems with them all ,but I can't deny that the kirby is built like a tank. If you have predominantly hard floors inquire about a back pac vac.
I'll check it out, thanks.

TechGuy | 10-17-2008 10:59 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by Armed.peasant (Post 1365587) Good to see you found some drums for your fuel storage, TN Andy told me about the PRID and I now add it to all my stored diesel fuel. I have a couple of Honda generators, a bigger one and a small one that is an EU unit. The EU is very quiet and that is a huge asset for so many reasons. I have never have any issues with either unit the EU has around 5000 hours on it, it burns a little oil, but runs perfect. The bigger one is 12 years old and starts right up and runs great. I like the thoughts of the Diesel, due to the fuel storge aspects. Both of mine are gas burners. Let us know how it holds up.
After all the searching, it was my dad that found the barrels!

Armed.peasant | 10-17-2008 11:07 PM
Re: Generator thoughts I order bags and other shipping supplies from ULINE, (uline.com) I noticed in the last catalog they sent me that they now sell new 55 Gal. drums. They are around $100 plus shipping. Like I said before, I get mine from the local oil distrubution company at aroung $20.

elroy | 10-17-2008 11:15 PM
Re: Generator thoughts I know these are a little pricey but they are supposed to be good. I've owned one for years. They sell a lot of gensets to fire departments and rental places among others. I was in Elkhart a couple weeks ago and actually saw their facility so I know it is really there. http://www.gillettegenerators.com/index.html

Portmanteau | 10-18-2008 12:17 AM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1365510) It is beyond me that the USA cannot or will not produce anything.
Why produce in America when you can make twice the profit? "Patriotism" is a cheap slogan and a plastic flag...made in...where else...China.

Virginian91 | 10-18-2008 08:51 AM
Re: Generator thoughts I went thru the same issue and spent a good 40 hours trying to find the made in USA genset head. I agree with the poster above about the Gillette GenPro series diesel. It has an Italian engine (mine is the Rugerini) but the rest including the genset head is made in Indiana and my 9k diesel will pull loads my Generac 8.5 - 12.5 peak would not. I can run my house AC unit off of it and the power is extremly stable. my gas genset would rev up and down and you could watch the voltage drop and rise. I will tell you that the diesel is at least 10 db higher than the gas genset was. tj

Lackluster | 10-18-2008 09:02 AM
Re: Generator thoughts These cost more, and I don't have actual experience with them, but they look real nice. I'm about two hours from the east coast distributor. They are 1800 RPM. I was quoted $7000 for a 9 KW, but you need to add a fuel tank and a few other things. http://www.northern-lights.com/ http://www.northern-lights.com/ PDF: http://www.northern-lights.com/PDFs/...F/NL773LW3.pdf

nub | 10-18-2008 09:43 AM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by Lackluster (Post 1365933) These cost more, and I don't have actual experience with them, but they look real nice. I'm about two hours from the east coast distributor. They are 1800 RPM. I was quoted $7000 for a 9 KW, but you need to add a fuel tank and a few other things. http://www.northern-lights.com/ http://www.northern-lights.com/ PDF: http://www.northern-lights.com/PDFs/...F/NL773LW3.pdf
You get what you pay for....the perkins based generators are real nice also The Kubota, Isuzu and Mitsubishi are high RPM diesels and last an extremely long time, I have one, 7000 hrs on one with no problems and no complaints......but the big heavy built like a tank low RPM models which I also own are still my favorite, for me they're what you want out in the boonies....easy to work on if need be Two years ago I got rid of a china diesel with 20,000 hrs. on it for a shanghai diesel , I worked on it a few times to get 20,000 hrs out of it but it was so damn easy who cares...the new shanghai which runs my shop has around 6,000 hrs on it and only one replaced water pump, pump was around $30.00 and time spent was under one hour and super easy .......It was my fault I didn't grease it.

nub | 10-18-2008 09:46 AM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1365481) Ok, I'll probably take some flack for this, but hey.... During Ike, my new coleman powermate gas generator failed shortly after the lights went out, and although we thought we were prepared, we were not. My wifes church brought us a small generator, and then, thankfully a neighbor took me to his shop and we picked up a small diesel generator and it worked flawlessly for the rest of the week. So now I need a new genset. Looked at PTO generators, standalone diesel generators, whole house standby propane units etc. Brand name diesel gensets for running 3k+, and then there were the storage and portability problems of the PTO's. Finally decided I could not drop 3k or more on a diesel PTO or brand name genset. I started looking around and saw a lot of the chinese made gensets available. While I was skeptical, I did just use one of the import chinese gensets for a week with NO issues. That was much better than my powermate assembled in IN, which is now a boat anchor since powermate is now out of business. I looked around for some better gensets, but found that nealry every portable genset head is now made in china. I even called several of the 'Made in America' brands offices. When it got down to brass tacs, I could not find ANY made in the USA, that we in my price range. Settled on a allpower 6500 diesel generator with a yanmar clone engine. Of course they are just the importer, most of these little gensets seem to be made by one or two factories in China and then custom branded after import. Before ordering I called the CA headquarters and talked to customer service and the warranty/parts departments. At least I could talk to a real person, and they answered on the 3rd ring. I recieved the unit earlier this week. Total drive out price was 1399. I decrated the unit, added oil and gas and immediately ran the unit for a few hours. NO ISSUES. This little unit runs great, and has at least average build quality. We wil see how it does, I plan to run it at least 15 more hours this weekend and do an oil change on it. http://cdn.overstock.com/images/prod.../P11185683.jpg
I'm anxious to hear how she runs and reliability....I think you might have a winner All my china diesels have been a great bargain :ok:

TechGuy | 10-18-2008 09:54 AM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by nub (Post 1365966) I'm anxious to hear how she runs and reliability....I think you might have a winner All my china diesels have been a great bargain :ok:
My only real concern is availability of engine parts. All power sells every part for the generator, including motor parts, but I haven't been able to find any independent parts suppliers for the engines. The engines are used in almost every diesel generator from China, so you would think parts would be easily available. The manufacturer is: Jiandong and the motor family is JD186FAE .42 liter If you guys see anything, post it please.

.925 | 12-12-2008 05:57 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Bought a 10kw gen head Harbor Freight. Belt driven by 11hp honda. No troubles, use it all the time. Don't spill gas on meter lenses.

TechGuy | 12-12-2008 08:45 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by .925 (Post 1463164) Bought a 10kw gen head Harbor Freight. Belt driven by 11hp honda. No troubles, use it all the time. Don't spill gas on meter lenses.
How did you get the RPM right? I have a kubota tractor with PTO that I would really be interested in setting up like that.

unalga | 12-12-2008 09:12 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1463429) How did you get the RPM right? I have a kubota tractor with PTO that I would really be interested in setting up like that.
Right RPM is easy. Get your PTO RPM, figure what you need for gen RPM then just buy whatever size pully you need. They are not very expensive. Depending on how fast ou want to run your PTO you can even have a coupke of ratio's. Only minutes to change pull's

nub | 12-12-2008 09:18 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by .925 (Post 1463164) Bought a 10kw gen head Harbor Freight. Belt driven by 11hp honda. No troubles, use it all the time. Don't spill gas on meter lenses.
How many hours do you have on it?

TechGuy | 12-12-2008 09:25 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by unalga (Post 1463473) Right RPM is easy. Get your PTO RPM, figure what you need for gen RPM then just buy whatever size pully you need. They are not very expensive. Depending on how fast ou want to run your PTO you can even have a coupke of ratio's. Only minutes to change pull's
How would you mount the pulley to the PTO? I have been looking for something like that and have found nothing....

damoc | 12-12-2008 09:43 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by nub (Post 1463481) How many hours do you have on it?
I bought one and have at least 100 hours i know thats not a lot but i wanted something i could use with other engines with a simple adaption i am using only a 6.5 horse harbour freight special at the moment the same engine i use for other battery charging ,mulcher rototiller. so far so good frequency and voltage was and is monitored with multimeters and adjusted with rpm of engine. i did have problem with fried washing machine but that was my own fault running the thing with only 1 belt and should not be repeated. http://www.damoc.com/offgrid/gennie1.JPG this setup motor/horspower is well under what is recomended as a minimun

Minimus | 12-16-2008 10:13 PM
Re: Generator thoughts 4 Attachment(s) A homebuilt battery charger from another thread.

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- - Generator thoughts (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=313816)

TechGuy | 12-16-2008 10:16 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by Minimus (Post 1469579) A homebuilt battery charger from another thread.
Is that a GM one wire alternator (integrated voltage regulator)? Edit... never mind, read the schematic. Anyone know what alternator to order from autozone for the one wire?

damoc | 12-16-2008 10:31 PM
Re: Generator thoughts i dont know about 1 wire the ones i use have 3 but only realy need one they have internal regulator and a RPM coil cut in IE there is no current draw to the coils untill the alternator reaches a RPM that it can produce energy. they are a delco remy i think very common but is the same as is used in 1980 chev 350 one tone truck and probably many others http://www.damoc.com/offgrid/batcharg.JPG

Armed.peasant | 12-16-2008 10:45 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1463429) How did you get the RPM right? I have a kubota tractor with PTO that I would really be interested in setting up like that.
Have you seen this PTO generator from Northern? My Kubota uses very little fuel I have been thinking about one of these myself. I have a couple of other generators now, but I like the thoughts of the PTO drive and it would be easy to move around. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...8467_200308467

Lt Dan | 12-17-2008 12:40 AM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by Armed.peasant (Post 1469625) Have you seen this PTO generator from Northern? My Kubota uses very little fuel I have been thinking about one of these myself. I have a couple of other generators now, but I like the thoughts of the PTO drive and it would be easy to move around. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...8467_200308467
I looked at those and wish I had bought one or the next size up. Figured I could run the whole house on it for less than what my portable gensets do. Since I already have a diesel tractor and 550 rpms is not running the tractor very hard. didn't do it, instead we have two 6500 w and another smaller one takes a lot of gas to run them and it still doesn't do it all. I've a 266 gal tank of diesel fuel but only keep a few cans of gasoline around at a time.

Bill843 | 12-17-2008 03:54 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Parts availability (for a portable) was my main concern too. I finally bought a 5500W Sears job. Sears is good for parts support, assuming Sears stays in business--but then again, you can't really plan for failure of everything. ------- A couple things I wonder about- .....I wonder why people build their own using a belt. The small engines and small gen heads are usually rated to spin at around the same operating RPM's anyway, and a belt is just one more thing to wear out. A belt-drive setup is probably easier to build because alignment is not so critical--but then, if the alignment is not good, it'll just eat up belts anyway. None of the smaller commercially-made units I've seen used a belt. An anti-vibration coupler seems like a better idea all the way around. .....Also--if you are willing to build a stationary unit, why not just use a car or truck engine? They should last a long time if they're just turning over at 1000 RPM or so and only putting out 10 or 15 horse-power, and they'd have enough torque that even at that low speed they could spin a fairly-big gen head. The engine reliability data and engine parts availability is about as good as you can expect too--certainly better than any of these little Chinese engines has. I can't do a stationary unit now, but if I could I'd certainly price a junkyard engine and gen head, and consider it. -end-

hoarder | 12-17-2008 04:07 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Damoc, Piping the exaust to the outside of a building as shown in your Harbor Freight generator picture is a good idea, but.....flow restriction is measured on a "per foot" basis and that system is very restricted. Also, hard piping all the way can damage the engine block. Better way to accomplish that is using a bell reducer at the engine to bring the size to 1 1/4" or larger and sliping all metal flex line and clamps over. That way the block is stress relieved. Also, you can purchase 2" wide strips of fiberglass cloth and wrap the entire thing so less heat dissipates inside the building and doesn't remove as much skin off your leg if you have a careless moment.

damoc | 12-17-2008 04:55 PM
Re: Generator thoughts thanks hoarder thats been on my mind how i can improve on that especially cracking the block with vibration.I still have a lot to do trying to reduce noise as well as gassing outside. also wanting to use the heat from the exhaust to help heat the green house eventually which is on the other side of the wall. while i dont doubt it is restricted i did not notice and reduction in power the original piping although short was less than 5/8 internal the pipe i used for outside was 7/8 internal.

TTAZZMAN | 12-17-2008 04:58 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by damoc (Post 1469605) i dont know about 1 wire the ones i use have 3 but only realy need one they have internal regulator and a RPM coil cut in IE there is no current draw to the coils untill the alternator reaches a RPM that it can produce energy. they are a delco remy i think very common but is the same as is used in 1980 chev 350 one tone truck and probably many others http://www.damoc.com/offgrid/batcharg.JPG
i wonder how one of those units would work with a battery buffer and a 110v inverter on the other side? any idea how many amps it puts out at various rpms?

damoc | 12-17-2008 05:03 PM
Re: Generator thoughts not sure on the rmp but it puts out 50 amps fairly consistantly when the batteries need charging it peaks at close to 60 when there is a heavy load. reduces to about 30 when the bank is getting close to charged. i actually reduce the rpm to the slowest posible as it seems to make little difference to the charge output.

Zusn | 12-17-2008 05:20 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1470839) A couple things I wonder about- .....I wonder why people build their own using a belt. The small engines and small gen heads are usually rated to spin at around the same operating RPM's anyway, and a belt is just one more thing to wear out. A belt-drive setup is probably easier to build because alignment is not so critical--but then, if the alignment is not good, it'll just eat up belts anyway. None of the smaller commercially-made units I've seen used a belt. An anti-vibration coupler seems like a better idea all the way around.
I think the advantage to using pulleys and a belt is you can change the pulley ratio between the two devices. i.e. you can spin a 3600rpm generator with the engine running at 1800rpm if the engine pulley is about twice the diameter as the generator pulley. Obviously, there's more things to consider, but it does give options. Quote:
....Also--if you are willing to build a stationary unit, why not just use a car or truck engine? They should last a long time if they're just turning over at 1000 RPM or so and only putting out 10 or 15 horse-power, and they'd have enough torque that even at that low speed they could spin a fairly-big gen head. The engine reliability data and engine parts availability is about as good as you can expect too--certainly better than any of these little Chinese engines has. I can't do a stationary unit now, but if I could I'd certainly price a junkyard engine and gen head, and consider it.
I've actually been thinking about this. I have an extra 3 cylinder engine from my Geo Metro that I'd love to use to drive a generator head. I want to find a good generator head. The Harbor Freight one is tempting....

TTAZZMAN | 12-17-2008 05:29 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by damoc (Post 1470987) not sure on the rmp but it puts out 50 amps fairly consistantly when the batteries need charging it peaks at close to 60 when there is a heavy load. reduces to about 30 when the bank is getting close to charged. i actually reduce the rpm to the slowest posible as it seems to make little difference to the charge output.
how many HP is that engine? does it have any trouble spinning it?

damoc | 12-17-2008 05:39 PM
Re: Generator thoughts its a 6.5 horse from harbor freight no trouble at all turning it i think i could run 2 alternators from it i did have 2 previous 3.5 and 4 horse briggs and stratton on it which had trouble i had to reduce the cable size to restict current to no more than 20 amps and run at full rpm or they would just stall out they were old motors however.

Gknowmx | 12-17-2008 06:22 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by damoc (Post 1470987) not sure on the rmp but it puts out 50 amps fairly consistantly when the batteries need charging it peaks at close to 60 when there is a heavy load. reduces to about 30 when the bank is getting close to charged. i actually reduce the rpm to the slowest posible as it seems to make little difference to the charge output.
I think you have hit on an important point, a good battery bank would seem to be the more important resource to focus on. What batteries can you recommend?

damoc | 12-17-2008 07:09 PM
Re: Generator thoughts the ones i purchased at the recomendation of the battery man were a 6v 375 ah hi tec. better deep cycle performance than marine deep cycle or fork lift batteries and about the same price per AH he recomended these over a 400 ah L16 because he said he had some charging trouble with the L16 price was about the same

Agamemnon | 12-17-2008 09:16 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1470974) i wonder how one of those units would work with a battery buffer and a 110v inverter on the other side? any idea how many amps it puts out at various rpms?
I've ran a 1200 watt (2400 surge) inverter on my 5 hp/Delco/battery rig with no problems. Even tho the alternator only puts out about 700 watts max the battery handles the excess load, like on skill saws and such. If its a small job like running a sawzall, a string of lights or a drill, I just use the inverter off the battery and don't start up the charger. .

Tallships | 12-17-2008 09:32 PM
Re: Generator thoughts I have been thinking about trying to build a windmill using an alternator like that. Just mount the fan/blades to the alternator, put on a tower and hook to battery. Would also have a solar panel to charge when the wind was not fast enough. Sound plausible to any of you guys?

damoc | 12-17-2008 09:58 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 1471465) I have been thinking about trying to build a windmill using an alternator like that. Just mount the fan/blades to the alternator, put on a tower and hook to battery. Would also have a solar panel to charge when the wind was not fast enough. Sound plausible to any of you guys?
that is next on my project list but it has a couple of drawbacks over the permanant magnet designes first it will not be as efficient size versus wattage output.it will also need gearing to get the alternators up to the rpm that they need to turn at.also maintainance will be greater you will have brushes to change and gearing to lube and replace also likely to be louder in operation. only reason im going to have a go at is is that i have some bits and pieces that i can use to put one together so should be very cheap for a 600 to 700 watt wind turbine. turbine will be a 16 foot diameter 2 blade wood

GB1980 | 12-18-2008 07:59 AM
Re: Generator thoughts I bought an American made generator by Briggs and Stratton. They are made in Wisconsin and are solid. I have bought several lawn mowers through the years made with their engines and have proven their worth many times over. This one is a 15hp 5500. I have used it on 4 occasions in the last 3 years. It has been great. It uses about 5 gallons of gasoline for about 24hr operations. I have been happy with it.

TTAZZMAN | 12-18-2008 11:45 AM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by GB1980 (Post 1472050) I bought an American made generator by Briggs and Stratton. They are made in Wisconsin and are solid. I have bought several lawn mowers through the years made with their engines and have proven their worth many times over. This one is a 15hp 5500. I have used it on 4 occasions in the last 3 years. It has been great. It uses about 5 gallons of gasoline for about 24hr operations. I have been happy with it.
15hp ...running 3600rpm....getting 4.8hrs per gallon fuel ussage or .2 gal per hour.... with all due respect sir i think you have seriously underestimated your fuel ussage....i am guessing your gen will consume 5 times that fuel ..or approx 1 gal per hr

ImaCannin | 12-18-2008 08:39 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Tech Guy, How long did it take for you to get your 6500 Generator? The web site says 1 to 6 weeks!

Bill843 | 12-19-2008 02:19 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 1471465) I have been thinking about trying to build a windmill using an alternator like that. Just mount the fan/blades to the alternator, put on a tower and hook to battery. Would also have a solar panel to charge when the wind was not fast enough. Sound plausible to any of you guys?
An alternator has to be spun at too high a speed to be practical for most windmills, that's why windmills don't use them. And really--the stationary-coil dynamos that home-built electricity windmills use is the easiest and most-durable type of generator you can build, and that's why they do it that way. All the major parts that you need are some good magnets and some bell wire. The coils are mounted stationary so no commutator is required (no brushes to burn up!) and you use power diodes for rectifying the output into pulsing-DC either right at the windmill, or you can leave it as AC and use a step-up transformer (to efficiently transmit it over a longer run of wire) and then another transformer at the end to step it back down and then rectify it to DC there. -end-

Tallships | 12-19-2008 03:43 PM
Re: Generator thoughts I just want it to trickle charge a battery bank that would only be needed maybe once/twice a year (12 volt lighting system from R.V.) would be combined with solar panel. I have a pile of old alternators laying around and was thinking about trying to put them to some good free use. I know they are harder to turn when putting out power, but do you think they would work as a trickle charger without gearing?

damoc | 12-19-2008 04:50 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 1474319) I just want it to trickle charge a battery bank that would only be needed maybe once/twice a year (12 volt lighting system from R.V.) would be combined with solar panel. I have a pile of old alternators laying around and was thinking about trying to put them to some good free use. I know they are harder to turn when putting out power, but do you think they would work as a trickle charger without gearing?
no either they wont put out any charge or they will actually draw more current than they produce and drain your battery. they need to be spinning fast. faster than a turbine can make them spin without gearing. and even if that wasnt the case those bearings in the alternators will not last under that type of load. and then the gearing will wast a bit of energy and the coils will use up more so you would need to make a bigger turbine than you would otherwise need and also a bigger/stronger tower. just as a guestimate you probably need 300 watts supplied by the wind before you can break even let alone produce anything even a trickle.

Tallships | 12-19-2008 06:08 PM
Re: Generator thoughts Well thanks in advance for telling me before I started working on it.

damoc | 02-10-2009 11:54 PM
Re: Generator thoughts just wanted to bump this thread up and see if there is anyone from the ice storm hit areas who has had some real expierience with long term generator usage particularily with small/cheap backup generators that many of us have. the reason for my interest is that i have been running a backup generator as part of an of grid setup for about 2 months at an average of about 5 hours a day for water pumping cloths washing and battery charging. and have had a few problems with breakdowns.the gear was all cheap harbor freight specials so i guess i cant expect to much but i think most of the other cheap generators even honda will be in the same boat. so for about 300 hours usage i have had to replace or repair california smog gadgets? these was the first things to go, a malfunction would cut out the motor. run switch plastic got hard and just broke i wired in a new switch. the original exhaust broke at the weld in the first 50 hours. a burned out blade connector on a circuit breaker cut out half my 110 and was a ignition hazard untill i worked out where the spark was coming from i still dont know what caused this i am just putting it down to poor construction. alloy pulley broke generator capacitor kicked the bucket in hindsight this caused problems with fuel consumtion voltage regulation and reliability for about a week before it totally gave out. oil seals were never good fuel tank is starting to crack at the supports on the engine moral to the story if you are going to rely on you generator but cant afford the better more expensive ones, have a lot of spare parts.

Pat | 02-11-2009 12:21 AM
Re: Generator thoughts Quote:
Originally Posted by damoc (Post 1562535) just wanted to bump this thread up and see if there is anyone from the ice storm hit areas who has had some real expierience with long term generator usage particularily with small/cheap backup generators that many of us have.
I got hit last year, I live full time on a few acres (very rural) in a large 5th Wheel rig. I do have grid power and added a 100 amp service to my rig but power was cut for about 5 days after ice storm. My cheapo tiller engine - Delco battery charger did the dirty work and kept the lights and propane furnace on. My inverter runs the TV and computer. Refrigerator automatically switches over to propane on power outage. I have both 120 vac and 12 vdc lights. I ran the charger for a couple hours in the morning and evening to keep my batteries charged. I did without the washing machine and drier (out building laundry shed). Quote:
Originally Posted by damoc (Post 1562535) moral to the story if you are going to rely on you generator but cant afford the better more expensive ones, have a lot of spare parts.
If its a home built cheapo charger, no problem. BTW, used a cheap inverter (200 watt) to power heat tape (from battery bank) and kept my water lines from freezing, they use very little power (about 3 watts per foot). .

Lt Dan | 02-11-2009 06:44 AM
Re: Generator thoughts I used a Honda, I believe is a 3600W not sure without checking, for several years during outages. We would only try to run the keep the refrigerator and freezer running. The trouble is, it only barely did that before we bought new frost free models. The new ones were larger capacity and the little Honda would do the job, but I was worried, because the watts demand was close to it's capacity. So, last September, when high winds took out the local grid, I bought a 6500W. That ran everything in the house that we had to have to keep the food from going bad, keep us warm in this past ice storm, give us some light, run the computers and one TV. My radio runs on 4 D-cell batteries, plus I have a scanner that runs on rechargeable batteries. So we were good in all areas but water. Our water supply for both my house and my son's comes from a well at his house. I know, I need to put in another well, but that's not the problem. I've also got a 6500W generator I let him use to run his house. the problem is I have not researched if that genny will handle his house and the well. So that's the one hole we have in our preparedness plan. Back a few years ago I tried to talk my wife into letting me get a 15KW LP gas generator to set up on a transfer switch to run the whole house. She did not think it was necessary, and maybe she was right. Now that we've had more than usual amounts of grid power losses, she's been asking if I could get a generator that would run the whole house and me not have to run to town for fuel to run the generators. We have a large LP tank for home heating use, just sitting out there that we use for backup heat for the wood boiler and cook stove. I think she is starting to catch on. So, I need to work on the problem of the water pump and maybe look into the LP generator for my house. Now would not be the best time to look for the new generator as many people would be doing the same right now this soon after power outage. I'm thinking my newer generator I bought last fall would run the water pump on a need basis, flush, shower, clean up dishes stuff like that and then just shut it down. Oh, draw a few buckets of water to flush with while the pump is down. I also have a hand pump I need to look into installing on that well, that would solve most of the water issue. Bottom line on generators......... Get one big enough, get a backup if you've a place to keep it. The main generator should be set on a base and protected from the weather, or encased to protect it. It should have either a automatic with manual override or just a manual transfer switch, it should have a stable amply fuel supply, either diesel or LP. If you are well enough off to own a few oz of gold, this setup should not be that hard on your budget to install or have installed. Of course, if you don't own your place or you live in an apartment, than all this means nothing.

Jimfrancisco | 02-11-2009 07:59 AM
Re: Generator thoughts Yep, the cheapos have a VERY short design life. I've been through a fair few of them before I bought my Onans. I mean, plastic camshafts??? An old Onan CCK can be bought for the same price as a cheap new generator - most of these have been going since the 70s, and will keep going for another 30 years! The parts are expensive - but the chances of you NEEDING parts is small enough that it is far more economically viable to buy one of these than a cheap brand. Just compare the weights - even a 3500w CCK weighs 185 kilos, or around 400lbs! Quote:
Originally Posted by damoc (Post 1562535) just wanted to bump this thread up and see if there is anyone from the ice storm hit areas who has had some real expierience with long term generator usage particularily with small/cheap backup generators that many of us have. the reason for my interest is that i have been running a backup generator as part of an of grid setup for about 2 months at an average of about 5 hours a day for water pumping cloths washing and battery charging. and have had a few problems with breakdowns.the gear was all cheap harbor freight specials so i guess i cant expect to much but i think most of the other cheap generators even honda will be in the same boat. so for about 300 hours usage i have had to replace or repair california smog gadgets? these was the first things to go, a malfunction would cut out the motor. run switch plastic got hard and just broke i wired in a new switch. the original exhaust broke at the weld in the first 50 hours. a burned out blade connector on a circuit breaker cut out half my 110 and was a ignition hazard untill i worked out where the spark was coming from i still dont know what caused this i am just putting it down to poor construction. alloy pulley broke generator capacitor kicked the bucket in hindsight this caused problems with fuel consumtion voltage regulation and reliability for about a week before it totally gave out. oil seals were never good fuel tank is starting to crack at the supports on the engine moral to the story if you are going to rely on you generator but cant afford the better more expensive ones, have a lot of spare parts.

TTAZZMAN | 02-11-2009 11:53 PM
Re: Generator thoughts I own several generators...i have generators that are used in construction on a regular basis and are abused here are my thoughts.. for construction generators i have had good luck with Kohler or Honda engine based machines in the 4kw-6kw range they seem to be able to take abuse and work well they tend to die of abuse rather than a flaw..these styles are noisy ..and use a lot of fuel... I also RVed and rural camped......i learned that for that style of service (multi-day ussage 24/7 ussage) you wanted something-Quiet-portable-and very fuel efficent...so after much trial and error we ended up with INVERTER style generators.. So last year we had 2 ice storms.....the 2nd had my house and other family members houses out of power for 8-12 days ...so we had every generator we had working.. how did they work #1well we put a standard 6500watt cheapo i had on one house...wired it 220 with a cord feeding the dryer outlet with a 5gal tank...it ran good..used about a gal of gas a hour...noisy as heck...but it worked...we have used it since and one leg of the 240 is intermittant and i havent had a chance to see if its in the plug or internal #2 we have a 3500watt inverter suitcase chinesse genny 110only.....we hooked it up and ran one houses....furnace..deep freeze..fridge...and some misc lights...it had a 1gal fuel tank on it so i plumbed it to a remote auxillary 6 gal portable boat tank.....it ran so quiet it was hard to hear...it averaged .2 gal of gas a hour..and ran 9 days strait without ever turning off..went out twice a day and poured some fuel in the remote tank (i bought this thing new off of ebay for $500 just to try) (unbelievable fuel ussage) #3 i hooked up my house to a 7kw inverter genny via 240v cord to the dryer outlet so we had full ussage of the house as long as we didnt exceed capacity of the genny...it had a 4 gal tank...it averaged .3gal a hour...it was virtually silent...ran for 10 days continueous..refueled twice a day #4 we had 2 run of the mill new homelight gennys we took both to neighboring houses one was my sisters house...we were out of electrical ends for 240 attachments to the gennys so we hooked up both houses with extension cords and some direct wiring of the furnaces...one genny failed to restart after the first refuel (bad oil sender) so we ended up running both adjacent houses off of one genny and conserving...both were noisy...used about a 1gal per hour..refueled every few hours... #5 we used some construction generator/welders and powered some homes they noisy as hell...burnt tons of fuel, prob 1.5gal per hour...but were reliable I guess the moral of my experience is ....for me and my house we will use a inverter generator....granted they are expensive.....but there is no substitute for fuel economy -clean power-and quietness.. PS we always change and use very good synthetic oil in these machines after every use

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