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Book | 04-28-2006 11:30 PM
Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? One thing has always intrigued me about the preparation we all go through for surviving the end of the world. While there is no disputing the logic of stocking up on food, guns and ammo, and the other sundries of everyday life, lots of article have been devoted to the usefulness of gold in these TEOTWAWKI scenarios. Indeed, these pundits would have us believe that gold is all we need to survive any calamity. Not surprisingly, most of these articles have been written by a man with an interest to sell you gold and numismatic silver. Let us look at a hypothetical situation. We�re a few years into the future, four years after the disaster of your choice. It doesn�t matter what brought us to this strait, just that civilization as we know it today no longer exists. You, like those around you, survived. Unlike some others, you took precautions; like Aesop�s ant, you laid in enough to see you through the lean years. Some of your neighbours weren�t so foresighted, and one of these benighted souls, cold and hungry, has shown up at the door to your retreat. He has a box of 9mm that he scrounged somewhere, but owns a .38 special revolver. Your Browning can always use a little more ammo, so you ask what he wants in trade. At this point, let�s ask ourselves what we would want in the above scenario. A box of .38�s, and maybe a can or two of beef stew? Or a two ounce bar of 99% pure, shiny, worthless, gold? Gold, like most things man has based an economy upon, has no intrinsic worth beyond what we assign. While it is quite handy in the electronics industry, and the jeweller�s of the world wish us to believe it�s the only way to buy true love, it has no other real uses. In a collapsed society, items of real worth will be those that we can use. Unpolluted water, food, ammunition, any number of manufactured goods such as soap and toothpaste will be much more in demand than gold. It will be many years, if ever in our lifetimes, (depending on the severity of the situation) before gold is used again as a currency. Fishing weights and musket balls will be about all that gold would be good for. But wait, you say. What about something other than a system-wide collapse, say a hurricane or other natural disaster of limited duration? Surely a stash of gold or pre-1965 dimes and quarters will come in handy then? Wrong again. While it is true that unscrupulous shop owners will charge many times the going rate for goods and services in such a situation, how many of them do you suppose will take your word on how much a Krugerand is worth? How many people, outside of coin collectors and survivalists, even know about the value of pre-1965 silver coins? And even if they do, how do you propose to buy a loaf of bread with a two ounce bar of gold? Take a wheelbarrow along to cart home your change in greenbacks? Far better, if you live in flood- or tornado-prone areas, is to have a wad of bills to supplement your food and fuel reserves. Which brings us to the meat of the matter. Now that I have hopefully dispelled the notion of gold being a wise investment (besides, how many of us can afford to have gold on top of everything else we need to put in our larders and lockers?), I�ll give you some idea of what would be handy to have on hand for trade purposes. As I said above, anything that you use on a daily basis will likely be in demand after a disaster, whether man-made or otherwise. Soap, paper towels, toilet paper, vitamins, toothpaste and toothbrushes; all common, everyday items that we take for granted now which may be impossible to scavenge. And there surely won�t be any more being made. What I do, so as not to break my budget but still lay in supplies that I myself will use, and possibly barter with, is this: Every month, while doing my regular shopping, I buy an extra bar of soap, roll of paper towels, toilet paper, a bottle of analgesic, three big boxes of strike-anywhere matches, and Q-tips. Every three months I lay in the following: a package of disposable razors, multi-vitamins (a jar of 133), tube of toothpaste, toothbrush, and a box of ten or twelve large, plastic garbage bags. These are all things that I use on a daily basis, and wouldn�t want to be without. While the toilet paper and Q-tips might seem to be pure comfort items, the soap and toothpaste are not. Basic hygiene is going to be more important than ever in a world without pharmacies and doctors. And those garbage bags may well prove to be the most versatile thing in your stock of survival goods. While they can be used for their intended purpose, they will also do yeoman service as emergency rain slickers, waterproofing the roof of a shelter, disposing of diseased animal carcasses or human waste, waterproof sandbags to shore up a leaking dike... While they might not be ideal for some things, you�ll at least have them to improvise with. Other trade goods you might wish to lay in follow the same basic principles. What do you use on a daily basis, or see a possible need or use for in an emergency? If you can see a need for it, someone else will too. Only maybe they didn�t have the foresight to have it on hand before the world went blooey! What about extra ammo, preferably in a caliber you use yourself. That way, if you can�t trade it (not too likely), you�re not out anything. Food would be good, but remember, you need to eat, too. It�s unlikely that you could have such a vast stockpile of stuff that you could trade away canned goods. But what about raising your own meat and trading that for something you don�t have? I live on two acres, and keep goats and rabbits. The goats provide me with meat, milk, and skins. The rabbits are tasty, and perhaps the easiest meat animal to raise. They take up next to no space, eat comparatively little, and breed... well, like rabbits. Two does and one buck can provide you with a lot of protein. But there is very little fat in rabbits, so don�t count on them alone. But the milk from the goats has a high fat content, and can be drunk as is, or made into butter or cheese. Having a few fifty pound boxes of nails around wouldn�t be amiss, either. People might be able to scrounge plywood and boards from other structures, but they won�t find nails so easy to come by. Anything that is comparatively cheap today, and versatile or indispensable, would be a fine trade item. A few cheap knives, such as those seen in catalogs, would be good, too. A stout fixed-blade knife of a bowie design would be much in demand in a world where we have to butcher our own food. And don�t forget services, either. A mechanic or general handyman would be a good man to know in an emergency, where there will be no manufacturing of new parts. An old-fashioned blacksmith would be a boon right about then. So think about the possible future we�re planning to survive, and what might be entailed in that brave new world. And gold won�t figure prominently at all. Linky

Ponce Cuba | 04-28-2006 11:58 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Book? ARE YOU TALKING TO ME? hahahahaahhaah, you should know me by now.....I have a lot of toothpaste and toothbrushes and I don't even have any teeth, soap? I buy them a dozen at a time about 150 bars, toilet paper? we wont go into that hahahahaha, stuff from the dollar store? around $400.00 for trading and on and on and on......lumber, nails, roofing material, paint, cement (hard to keep fresh), lots of hand tools. Bullets and toilet paper I would never trade, the first one could be used against me and the second one because I don't know how long the problem will last......remember that in Cuba it has lasted for 45 years and counting. Have food for at least 3.5 years and everything else for longer, the needed medical equipment (but for drugs) to set up a field hospital. And of course my silver will carry me for another 25 years or longer :Zzzz: I sleep very good.

REV127 | 04-29-2006 12:09 AM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? I used to think that way, hated pm's in fact, thought they were useless. This was easy since most of my life they didn't do anything interesting. Then one day I wised up. Gold is valuable as money because it is almost impossible to fake. No base metal is nearly as dense, not even lead, and they don't possess gold's other easily observed physical attributes such as softness, color and ring. Silver is very difficult to fake, lead would be the main component in any fake silver and lead's properties are very different than silver's. Silver rings, lead thuds. Silver takes a high polish, lead doesn't. Silver leaves a silver streak on paper, lead leaves a dull grey. Silver also has a practical use above gold, even in a lowtech scenario, it's a natural anti-microbial material. Dealing with infection and maintaining clean water supplies would be important in a total collapse, no? Then there's the fact that barter doesn't answer all problems. Let's say you're a farmer. You have lots of chickens. You also have a serious injury. A doctor is summoned, he treats your wounds, now you pay him, but with what? A hundred chickens? He wouldn't want them. Firstly because what is he going to do with all those live chickens? He isn't a farmer and he's going to get awfully bored of eating chicken for every meal every night. What's more is the nature of his work will have him on the go, so he could benefit most from a portable form of wealth that could be used to buy lodging and necessities in the next town over. Give him guns? Bricks of heavy lead ammo? 500lbs of corn? Other trade goods? This guy is a highly paid professional, pretty soon he'll need a supply caravan to carry around all his bartered junk, chickens, etc, which will make him a nice juicy target for every bandit in the territory. Or you could give him an ounce or two of gold or silver that fits in his pocket. There will always be trade and there will always be specialization as long as there are enough people to form a village. Given that, there will always be a need for money. Silver and gold are good money because they're rare, very difficult to counterfeit and have some practical utility. It is important to have the other stuff, too. I have enough Spam and ammo to sit out whatever may come my way, but that isn't the end-all, be-all because sooner or later you are going to need or want something you don't have and the guy who has it won't want what you have. Rather than having to go through the trouble of taking possession of something he can't use or doesn't want and trying to trade it to somebody else for something he can use or does want, you could simply exchange a universally recognized store of wealth such a tiny disk of precious metal.

Tn...Andy | 04-29-2006 04:13 AM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? I've ALWAYS said beans and bullets come before PMs...take care of first things first. But then cover all bases.

RiverRat | 04-29-2006 06:28 AM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? :character I agree with a lot of you. I have taken the precaution to dump worthless FRNs and stock up on what I consider survival goods. I'll be contrary here and say I disagree that PMs are of no value in a SHTF scenario.Being well prepared means knowing when and how to get out of Dodge if it becomes life threatening to me and my family. If rioting and looting become day jobs for the average community then how much good is thousands of pounds of food and barter items when you know you may have to live day and night with the threat of being overrun by starving armed lunatics ? Unless you have a small armed militia up your sleeve,they will take everything you have by force. The average family will have by now have lost their homes,jobs,and means of transportation.If the experts are correct,80% of all home loans will be forclosed by TPTB and all of them will be living on the street. Imagine 200 million homeless people wandering the highways and streets of the US looking for food,shelter and firearms for self protection. If you delude yourself into believing you can hold onto your property and posessions,dream on. :boxing: If you think banks didn't foreclose on homes and farms during the great depression you need to go look up the facts.Never once did the goverment step in and halt a foreclosure just because a family had no money or jobs. Joe citizen took the fall hard. Attitudes and patriotism were much different then than now. Today's welfare state and government spending cannabilizes the working class to finance more welfare and more government debt.It is a perpetual tax machine with the power to tax you out of existence if the need arises. Sure,martial law can always be declared,your property confiscated for the common good,even over your dead body. I personally am not going to shoot it out with a swat team over a five pounds of dried beans.That would be suicide. You might not be able to eat gold and silver,but you can pretty well depend on greed under all circumstances.Somebody,somewhere is always looking to cash in on somebody's misfortune. Gold,silver and diamonds may be the ONLY barter accepted to get your a__s out of the mess to somewhere safe. Better to lose the battle and run than to end up dead for a can of peaches. Best to all, :bandito: RiverRat

Book | 04-29-2006 09:22 AM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Quote:
I have taken the precaution to dump worthless FRNs and stock up on what I consider survival goods. I'll be contrary here and say I disagree that PMs are of no value in a SHTF scenario. Being well prepared means knowing when and how to get out of Dodge if it becomes life threatening to me and my family. -RiverRat
I think that after we complete the Survival Prep stage we should then purchase PM. Not either-or but one before the other: Step One: Beans, Bullets, and Band-Aids Step Two: Physical PM :cheerful:

MacGyver | 04-29-2006 09:45 AM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat Imagine 200 million homeless people wandering the highways and streets of the US looking for food,shelter and firearms for self protection. If you delude yourself into believing you can hold onto your property and posessions,dream on.
Some brief comments: You are absolutely right that security is a big issue in case of a systemic collapse, but a lot of people would simply die pretty quick. The bad thing is that it probably will be the cannibals who survive the longest. The only solution I see is protective colouring. Look sick while coughing and drooling. It is difficult to imagine 200 million evicted. Where to find the troops to evict such amounts of people? And court clerks to process the mass of paper? In case of simplified processing, I would expect quite some level of squatting in foreclosed houses.

RiverRat | 04-29-2006 10:46 AM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? :character MacGyver: I somewhat agree with the squatter theory.That is a good estimate of what could happen.In fact,it probably would happen if TSHTF. :cheerful: On the other hand,I think the foreclosure scenario would go pretty slowly over a period of months until TPTB had the prime real estate forclosed and under control.Then comes the big under the table selloff to their friends and power group at pennies on the dollar.I predict a lot of real estate would be sucked up by foreign buyers who could pay in PMs.They probably would sell to a lot of GIM members too...........:tongue: As long as the banks have the power of law to foreclose, backed by local and national goon squads they will take it all. I think lots of folks would burn their homes to the ground prior to foreclosure,just for spite.I probably would. :cheerful: Remember, to sustain control through force and starvation would be in their best interests.If the population were cut in half,so much the better.More for them and the ones smart enough to have paid off their mortgages or bought Pms just to survive a coming economic meltdown.It could get very ugly. The worst threat I see is the average citizen going postal when he/she loses it all and tries to take everyone down around them.If they lose it all,why should anyone else have anything?Those are the ones we should be careful of. I don't want anyone at GIM to take this as all Gloom and Doom attitude. The one thing I have learned about the members here is that they are intelligent enough to try to protect themselves in spite of forces beyond their control or they wouldn't be here.We didn't invent the system,but we sure are stuck with the mess it's become.Better to be safe than sorry when it comes to urban and financial survival for your family. 1-Bullets,2-Beans,3-Band Aids,4-PMs in that order. Lot's of interesting opinions here....I enjoy reading them. Makes you think ! Best to all, :bandito: RiverRat

MacGyver | 04-29-2006 11:55 AM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat I think lots of folks would burn their homes to the ground prior to foreclosure,just for spite.I probably would.
Why burn? If you know you have a month before any goons arrive, why not strip out as much of the assets as possible? Rip out the electrical wiring for the copper value for example. Stuff that can be sold without leaving a paper trace. I imagine that windows and roof tiles could have some residual value also.

Ponce Cuba | 04-29-2006 01:46 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? If TSHTF really hard the power to be will have other worries than running people out of their homes and besides that what do you think that will happen to an empty house while people are out on the streets?.....do you think that the bank will have a guard in every house keeping an eye on things? Better to keep the family in the house to at least keep an eye on things and like Mac. says people could take the houses apart with no one there and sell the assets :love:

Alric | 04-29-2006 01:48 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? PM will do very well in a smaller crash or after things start getting better. As long as we are in a period where you might starve they are worthless. When we are at the period when most people eat poorly but theres enough to go around, some people will start to make money and then PM will be worth something.

wallew | 04-29-2006 04:44 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGyver Why burn? If you know you have a month before any goons arrive, why not strip out as much of the assets as possible? Rip out the electrical wiring for the copper value for example. Stuff that can be sold without leaving a paper trace. I imagine that windows and roof tiles could have some residual value also.
MacG, Actually, I've seen that done. My BIL and his brother bought 400 acres and it had a house with a garage (nothing fancy mind you, just an old farmhouse). After they closed on it, the owner said they wanted to go by and 'pick up' a few items. Dude, they stripped the windows, the flooring, every door, the plumbing (not JUST the fixtures, but the pipes as well). The first time I saw it, I could see 'good bones' to the frame, roof and walls of this place. But it reminded me of pictures you see of houses during the depression that don't have any windows or a front door, the grass is all grown up around it. The tree needs to be trimmed. But why does anyone think that it would take 'troops', whatever to get the cities vacated. ONE nuke or biological or chemical bomb anyplace inside our borders could be the trigger event. Then the cities turn off the power, cease the delivery of water, shut off the gas lines. So you couldn't keep food refrigerated, you can't cook what you have, and you have a problem with disposing of the results OF eating it. Times how many people live in your house. Times how many people live in your town. This does NOT include people who were prepared for this. But in a town of any size, if you are the ONLY person who has power, how long before the town council 'sees the wisdom' of moving the city government into YOUR place? "For the good of all, YOU DO see that? Right?" What that means is to THEIR betterment. NOT YOURS. So unless you live in a fort and can with stand countless sieges from your local yocals. Because you thought ahead. "But I live in the country, where NO ONE will find me". Right. My Grandmother grewup in a small town in Texas. During the depression she said 'Men would show up at your back door, hat in their hand, asking if she had any work they could do. Rather than send them away hungry, she would have them turn over this flower bed or trim a tree or whatever she could think of. So she could feed them a meal without them feeling like it was a hand out, which they would have never accepted.' TODAY? They will kick in the front doors and windows and trash your place and take everything you own. You think about that and THEN tell me where I am going wrong. Again, this assumes basically Depression Part Deux, rather than 'Metor Strikes EARTH - (no sequel planned)' type of thing. Most will do what those during the LAST depression did. Load everything they own into a vehicle and drive to a 'better destination'. Which means a huge reshuffling of people (Completely CLOGGED I45 north out of Houston 24 hours before Katrina was supposed to hit Houston). A HUGE number of New Orleans residents drove to Houston. Because thats where 'the money' was being given out. Some will never go home. Every little rumble of a job, or a government stipend giveaway will cause some people to pack up and take that one more chance for a better life. Does this ring a bell with anyone? Beside the Depression here in the US back in the 30's? How about why illegals are coming across our border. LOOKING FOR A BETTER LIFE. While we may not like it, we don't seem to have the wherewithal to stop it. And we da pipple are next. So how will WE as a nation do if we were forced to live in an economy similar to Mexico's? The land of the bribe. The land where kidnappers are a profession. Where there is very little middle class. You are either a have or a have not. OH, and while having long discussions with my Grandmother about the depression she said it was 'horrible'. TWENTY PERCENT unemployment. Which is a huge number. Though Germany is suffering ALMOST a twenty percent unemployment rate right now. As is France. I think Italy is a little better off, but Spain is starting to have rising unemployment. But that meant that eighty percent of the people HAD jobs. Some didn't pay that well, but they were happy to have an income. Also, generally speaking you SHOULD NOT HAVE all your assets tied up in your home. It's absolutely the WORST place to have your money tied up in. Especially if you can't pay off the remainder if the bank called your loan, which they can do legally, at any time, pretty much for any bogus reason. Bogus to you and I but not the mortgage company or the judge. Besides, the larger an asset your home is. the less likely you are to be able to pay off the remaining mortgage, you become 'FORECLOSABLE'. That would mean all that hard work you did over all those years to pay on that mortgage now belong to your mortgage company. They will have stolen YOUR PAST WORK. How's that for a neat trick? If however you don't have a lot tied up as far as an asset in your home, and you don't mind having to leave, you probably won't be bothered. As far as the mortgage company is concerned, if you have a job and are still paying them rent, they can come back later on and steal all your hard work that paid you the money that you give to your mortgage company (IE steal your past work). Paperwork? If the number of foreclosures sky rocket, I would not be surprised to see the government contract that out to the banks. If they foreclose, they have to 'bear' the legal/court costs of the foreclosure. But the more people you foreclose on, the cheaper the government fee to foreclose is and then have a judge sign the paperwork . NOTE I did NOT say have a judge look at the paperwork and then sign it. The banks will be 'on their honor' to do it correctly to streamline the whole process. And I would leave it right as it sits. It is doubtful that it would be worthwhile to burn it. What if the whole plan is to 'scrape' it anyway? IE they just want YOU off THEIR land? Would you be making their job easier? What if all they want is us on the move and the ability to close off/restrict us into very small areas and not nearly so spread out as we are right now? What happens to the ninth ward in New Orleans? Will they bother to rebuild it? If so, will they just scrape it? Will 'a cow' kick over a latern and burn the ninth ward to the ground so clean up can be accomplished with no complaints from 'paid off by their insurance company' for their loss (at pennies on the dollar of course).

REV127 | 04-29-2006 04:59 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Foreclosure in a SHTF scenario is an interesting subject. The only way it makes sense for the bank to foreclose is if they think somebody else will be able to pay off the balance for them. If nobody has any money, there are few people who could pay the bank an interesting sum of money. If you're still able to make regular payments its probably easier for the bank just to leave you in place and let you pay it off. What happens if the bank or mortgage company goes belly up? Do you get a free house? As far as weird people showing up in my yard, first they'll get to listen to a bullhorn telling them to leave. Then the pepper gas grenades start flying. I might get a 12ga just to be able to lob rubber bullets, otherwise "My AK does my talking." My fence is my perimeter, if somebody's inside my perimeter without my permission that makes them a threat. I don't expect much trouble on my street, though. All the neighbors have "trespassers will be shot" signs and I'm putting back a few bags of rice and such for them. Seeds, too. Everybody on the street as several acres.

Alric | 04-29-2006 05:03 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? You know you will still go to jail if you shoot someone for walking up to your house to knock on your door.

Book | 04-29-2006 05:22 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Quote:
You know you will still go to jail if you shoot someone for walking up to your house to knock on your door. -Alric
During these so-called "normal" times our Jails are already full. WTSHTF it will be as described above. So...Alric...don't go Trick Or Treating after TSHTF please. :smile:

wallew | 04-29-2006 05:28 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? "Shut up. AND KEEP SHOVELING."

REV127 | 04-29-2006 05:38 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Actually I live in Florida. We have a law that says that if you're in reasonable fear of your personal safety you can shoot the badguy. I don't have to blow somebody away for coming up to knock on my door, which would be tough anyway because my house in on the back of my property, all I have to do is verbally warn them, pepper gas them, or if I have to go outside and confront them. If they get violent or threatening I am within my rights. However, I've already seen and done enough violence for two lifetimes, so I prefer to issue a verbal warning and if pressed use the nonlethal peppergas option. I have no desire to kill people. OTOH, it wouldn't mean all that much to me to pull the trigger on someone who was a real threat. As Will Smith said in Men In Black "Don't start nothing, won't be nothing." If you own land or a home you better have a plan for getting unwelcome people off it because it will come to that. These aren't people asking to turn over your garden in exchange for a ham sandwich, these will be crazed zombies with feelings of entitlement, grasshoppers with much resentment in their hearts towards the ants.

MacGyver | 04-29-2006 05:42 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 Foreclosure in a SHTF scenario is an interesting subject. The only way it makes sense for the bank to foreclose is if they think somebody else will be able to pay off the balance for them. If nobody has any money, there are few people who could pay the bank an interesting sum of money. If you're still able to make regular payments its probably easier for the bank just to leave you in place and let you pay it off. What happens if the bank or mortgage company goes belly up? Do you get a free house? As far as weird people showing up in my yard, first they'll get to listen to a bullhorn telling them to leave. Then the pepper gas grenades start flying. I might get a 12ga just to be able to lob rubber bullets, otherwise "My AK does my talking." My fence is my perimeter, if somebody's inside my perimeter without my permission that makes them a threat. I don't expect much trouble on my street, though. All the neighbors have "trespassers will be shot" signs and I'm putting back a few bags of rice and such for them. Seeds, too. Everybody on the street as several acres.
You are smart! This thing with "a few bags for the neighbors" is a mighty key. Think of a fox considering breakfast choices: "Hmm.. should I go for rabbit or should I go for hedgehog today? When thinking about it, rabbit sounds good". Any predator will go for "least resistance". Provide reasonable resitance.

melbo | 04-29-2006 06:47 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Absolutly Preps first if you are inclined to think we'll need them.

J.D.Rockinfeller | 04-29-2006 06:59 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Im inclined to use katrina as a glimpse into the future.....in new orleans, what was the most value??? Guns,gold,food? or potable water...or shelter for that matter? Because there, the S DID hit the fan!

Ponce Cuba | 04-29-2006 07:01 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Think? Melbo if some one is still thinking that means that they haven't done anything yet........better hurry. "To be ready is not"... Ponce :beer:

RiverRat | 04-29-2006 07:15 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? :cool2: Well,we all seem to have two or three different solutions here to cope with a hypothetical TSHTF future occurence.There is a distinct possibilty that all three could happen at once. 1-A financial melt down of epic proportions 2-A nationwide Katrina like natural disaster 3-A repeat of a depression scenario similar to The Grapes of Wrath (only worse). It would be hard to prepare for all three at once. But,we gotta try........... Best to all, :cool2: RiverRat

J.D.Rockinfeller | 04-29-2006 10:35 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? I have a belief that financially, it will all start WHEN not if GM files for bankruptcy.....keep an eye on her......its ticking.... Also in a katrina situation THIS time homeland"security" will not be told to stand down...but will be I think VERY active in rounding up conspiratorial malcontents.....thats US folks....

Book | 04-29-2006 11:39 PM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Quote:
When Katrina wiped out New Orleans that was all I needed to see to verify my worst concerns about the thin veneer of civilization. Thugs took over that town right away. Half of the police department quit. In a real economic blowout from sea to shining sea that could last years there won't be enough law to go around, except the law of the jungle. At least for a while. -gasilat
Some of the Police that didn't quit were later indicted for LOOTING stores and auto dealerships. They stole brand-new Cadillacs and were later arrested in driving them Texas: 2 more arrested in car looting probe Pair nabbed driving legal rental in Texas Wednesday, December 21, 2005 From staff reports Two civilians have been arrested in connection with the looting of cars from Sewell Cadillac Chevrolet after Hurricane Katrina, the latest suspects to be named in a state investigation that also is looking into the roles of some New Orleans police officers in the thefts. Damien Francis, 26, and Shawanda Arts, 27, both of New Orleans, were driving a rental car on Interstate 10 in Beaumont, Texas, on Monday when they were stopped by Beaumont police, according to the Louisiana attorney general's office. The rental car was legal, but the officers learned the suspects were wanted on theft and burglary warrants issued by the attorney general. http://www.nola.com/images/spacer.gifState investigators say Francis and Arts were among those inside the downtown car dealership handing out keys to people who fled in Sewell cars. At the time of the looting, the suspects were stopped and questioned by New Orleans police but were released because Parish Prison was flooded, the investigators said. The dealership reported that 180 cars turned up missing from the Baronne Street dealership, including 88 new cars, 40 used cars and 52 customers' cars. In October the attorney general's office announced it was investigating the actions of police officers and civilians in the incident. The New Orleans Police Department also is conducting an internal investigation into the actions of its officers, up to 40 of whom were seen riding in the cars after the storm.

Halophyte | 04-30-2006 12:04 AM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat 3-A repeat of a depression scenario similar to The Grapes of Wrath (only worse).
Yeah, like the real depression. .

melbo | 04-30-2006 12:27 AM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponce Cuba Think? Melbo if some one is still thinking that means that they haven't done anything yet........better hurry. "To be ready is not"... Ponce :beer:
Ponce? I only get 3-4 for every hundred I try to educate. In this game I think that's pretty good. We can only do what we can do And Ponce... I found a few guys in OR if you are still looking for post SHTF security. Don't know where thay are in relation to you.

AMforPM | 04-30-2006 05:07 AM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? I also think gardening supplies, with extras for the neighbors, and other things we use are vital, and in hyperinflation, probably as good an investment, in what exalted price we won't need to pay, as PMs. So I do both. We may travel or relocate abroad, in which case PMs (and in some scenarios, shares) become very useful. But I want to be ready to stick it out here if things get too SHF before the time we had planned for travel with no SHF in mind (retirement). It could go so many ways, still, though none, that I can think of, will feature cheap, abundant necessities compared to current prices. I'm a little uncomfortable discussing home defense online. I worry that realistic home defense may sound excessive as it seemed to in Katrina. How ridiculous can government be than to confiscate legal home defense arms in that kind of circumstance? But I do think a shotgun, deer rifle, and a handgun should deter or terminate many woes I hope I do not encounter, but know I might. I have not shot regularly for many years, and though I used to be very accurate, I'm considering adding laser sights to my handgun, just in case I've lost it. I could plink on my property as a kid, but now I have to go to a range and I find I just don't. Has anyone tried the grip type laser? They look like they would be stable. I can order that for my specific 38 frame. With glaser safety slugs a lowly 38 has stopping power, and it is not as likely as other rounds to cause problems like going through a wall and hitting an unintended target, or ricochet. Most GIMers seem to think there will be a lot more home invasion in a depresston now. What I read about Katrina sounded like it had less than normal NO violence during the crisis, and a lot of people helped each other. Also, it may be different elsewhere, but I do not think in a crisis that home invaders would survive long in Texas. Many, probably the majority, of homes are well prepared to make an attempt on their home career ending. I think crazed druggies would be who, mostly, as the fix was delayed, and they would be out of the picture pretty fast. Gangs might have a time of warfare with neighborhoods, but my money would be on neighborhoods. I may be too optimistic, but I think it is because part of my family ranched in badlands and they did fine at fighting off big Mexican gangs during those times. There was a time during the series of Mexican revolutions when Pancho Villa type outfits raided Texas ranches quite a lot. No losses of life in my family, but more than one big gang retreated smaller. It sounds corny, but there is not only something to fighting on your own turf, but to being right itself. Raiders are further disadvantaged in that they often are malnourished and half sick from some kind of substance abuse, plus they like easy prey and people at home are as dangerous as animals at bay, and know where to be to see and not be seen.

Book | 04-30-2006 10:24 AM
Re: Beans, Bullets, and Band-aids before PM? 1 Attachment(s) I doubt that any historical comparisons are useful when considering how bad it will get. Common decency isn't so common anymore: Attachment 14003

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