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Kahlil Gibran | 01-14-2007 10:28 PM
2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] NEW SECTION. Section 4. Unconscionable pricing prohibited. (1) During a declaration of a state of emergency or a finding of an abnormal market disruption, a person may not offer for sale at an unconscionable price an essential good or service, at retail or wholesale, within the affected area. (2) A price is prima facie unconscionable if it is 10% or more above the average price charged by a person for the essential good or service during the 30 days before the declaration of a state of emergency or the finding of an abnormal market disruption. (3) If a person did not offer for sale an essential good or service, at retail or wholesale, within an affected area during the 30 days before the declaration of the state of emergency or the finding of an abnormal market disruption, it is a prima facie violation of subsection (1) to charge a price that represents a gross disparity from the price at which the good or service was readily obtainable in the affected area during the 30 days immediately before the declaration or finding. NEW SECTION. Section 5. Hoarding prohibited. During a declaration of a state of emergency or a finding of an abnormal market disruption, a person may not engage in hoarding an essential good or service. :rolleyes: They are talking about YOUR stash and barter goods WTSHTF Linky to full Bill

R MacDonald | 01-14-2007 10:37 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Let's see the dirtbags just try to enforce it... in MONTANA of all places! :haha:

Wyldwil | 01-14-2007 10:51 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] That's some scary legislation.....what even brought it about?? We just make laws to make 'em...:banghead:

hoarder | 01-14-2007 10:57 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyldwil (Post 474187) That's some scary legislation.....what even brought it about?? We just make laws to make 'em...:banghead:
They will come in handy for TPTB later. It's called selective scrutiny.

J.D.Rockinfeller | 01-14-2007 10:58 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Montana? .....Right.... they will all turn in their hoard, the day it gets passed:rofl: ....i imagine they'll also donate a few bullets to the cause...

mamboni | 01-14-2007 11:00 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 474155) NEW SECTION. Section 4. Unconscionable pricing prohibited. (1) During a declaration of a state of emergency or a finding of an abnormal market disruption, a person may not offer for sale at an unconscionable price an essential good or service, at retail or wholesale, within the affected area. (2) A price is prima facie unconscionable if it is 10% or more above the average price charged by a person for the essential good or service during the 30 days before the declaration of a state of emergency or the finding of an abnormal market disruption. (3) If a person did not offer for sale an essential good or service, at retail or wholesale, within an affected area during the 30 days before the declaration of the state of emergency or the finding of an abnormal market disruption, it is a prima facie violation of subsection (1) to charge a price that represents a gross disparity from the price at which the good or service was readily obtainable in the affected area during the 30 days immediately before the declaration or finding. NEW SECTION. Section 5. Hoarding prohibited. During a declaration of a state of emergency or a finding of an abnormal market disruption, a person may not engage in hoarding an essential good or service. :rolleyes: They are talking about YOUR stash and barter goods WTSHTF Linky to full Bill
What utter idiocy! Price, the rate of exchange between goods and services and money, is the most efficient way of allocating precious and scarce resources when and only when it [price] is determined in a completely free market (in other words: price must only be a function of supply and demand, period). This moronic law will exacerbate scarcity of essentials in a crisis simply because no intelligent thinking person will sell something for less than what it is worth(!) - he will keep his precious stash rather than give it away at government-decreed bargain-basement prices! The ignorance of basic economics and incessant pandering by our government is astounding. Stupid socialists!

J.D.Rockinfeller | 01-14-2007 11:02 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Im SURE it will be applied to the oil co's in times of scarcity:thumpdown

J.D.Rockinfeller | 01-14-2007 11:04 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Sorry to keep blabbing here, but doesnt the government have a HUGE STOREHOUSE in the mountains in VA. ? built in the cold war era it has supplies to last like, 10 years.

Kahlil Gibran | 01-14-2007 11:06 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 474194) They will come in handy for TPTB later. It's called selective scrutiny.
Attachment 22801 Almost lunch...time to enforce that there new hoarder law :wavey: these laws are already in most states. don't tell anybody about your stash. they will just "confiscate" your Preps.

Kahlil Gibran | 01-14-2007 11:11 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 474198) What utter idiocy!
Attachment 22802 :wavey: That you Doctor Zhivago?

<SLV> | 01-14-2007 11:14 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by J.D.Rockinfeller (Post 474206) Sorry to keep blabbing here, but doesnt the government have a HUGE STOREHOUSE in the mountains in VA. ? built in the cold war era it has supplies to last like, 10 years.
Boy am I glad to hear that. Now I can get rid of my hoards and just wait for the government to take care of me when TPHTP ("The Poop Hits the Propeller).

mamboni | 01-14-2007 11:15 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 474212) Attachment 22802 :wavey: That you Doctor Zhivago?
Mamboni humbly accepts the compliment.

gunner | 01-14-2007 11:17 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Selective scrutiny indeed !! They will use a law like this to go after those that show resistance to demands after a manufactured crisis. It's also useful after the arrest on some other charge - a means to "legally" steal/confiscate a person's supplies. Price gouging laws are used here in Florida, but they are generally aimed more towards the larger businesses and franchise chains after a hurricane. Of course it's easy to apply it to the individual, yet sale and trade are two different things and determining value outside of the federal reserve system is something that is very subjective in nature. Never-the-less, bad news for Montana and any other states that adopt this law.

J.D.Rockinfeller | 01-14-2007 11:23 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] I just read in the bill that the Pres. can declare a state of emergency and kick the "law" into effect! So much for it being under the control)soley) of the montana Governer.

RiverRat | 01-14-2007 11:29 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] :D Anti hoarding law ? Of what ? Donuts for law enforcement or bullets for the state militia ? Florida passed the same laws when hurricanes blasted the state. Generators were selling for four times retail,plywood $75.00 a sheet,etc. So far no convictions....funny how the gasoline retailers who gouged and ripped off the entire populace were ignored. A guy with 6 kids goes to Sam's Club and buys a month supply of breakfast cereal...cops break down his door and arrest him for hoarding pop tarts and twenty five boxes of Captain Crunch... The utter insanity of moronic laws like this just goes to show how dumb elected officials really are. Good post KG... :D :D :D :D

gunner | 01-14-2007 11:41 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_F...rders/EOs.html So Where Do Anti-Hoarding Laws Come In? These ideas of anti-hoarding legislation may have stemmed from two areas of confusion: First is from Executive Orders in place dating back to 1939 which Clinton has grouped together under one order, EO #12919 released on June 6, 1994. The following EOs all fall under EO#12919: 10995--Federal seizure of all communications media in the US; 10997--Federal seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, public and private; 10998--Federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private and all farms and equipment; 10999--Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks, or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and water ways; 11000--Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires; 11001--Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private; 11002--Empowers the Postmaster General to register every single person in the US 11003--Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft; 11004--Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establish new locations for populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds; 11005--Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private; 11051--Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension of economic or financial crisis (FEMA will be in control incase of "National Emergency"). These EOs are not aimed at anti-hoarding but rather at seizure or confiscation of items and facilities "to provide a state of readiness in these resource areas with respect to all conditions of national emergency, including attack upon the United States." You'll find most 'seizure' legislation ends with this phrase. These Executive Orders don't define what specifically constitutes a national emergency and maybe this is as it should be. The specifics on hoarding are left up to the individual states.

mamboni | 01-15-2007 12:01 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner (Post 474243) http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_F...rders/EOs.html So Where Do Anti-Hoarding Laws Come In? These ideas of anti-hoarding legislation may have stemmed from two areas of confusion: First is from Executive Orders in place dating back to 1939 which Clinton has grouped together under one order, EO #12919 released on June 6, 1994. The following EOs all fall under EO#12919: 10995--Federal seizure of all communications media in the US; 10997--Federal seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, public and private; 10998--Federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private and all farms and equipment; 10999--Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks, or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and water ways; 11000--Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires; 11001--Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private; 11002--Empowers the Postmaster General to register every single person in the US 11003--Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft; 11004--Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establish new locations for populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds; 11005--Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private; 11051--Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension of economic or financial crisis (FEMA will be in control incase of "National Emergency"). These EOs are not aimed at anti-hoarding but rather at seizure or confiscation of items and facilities "to provide a state of readiness in these resource areas with respect to all conditions of national emergency, including attack upon the United States." You'll find most 'seizure' legislation ends with this phrase. These Executive Orders don't define what specifically constitutes a national emergency and maybe this is as it should be. The specifics on hoarding are left up to the individual states.
Dictatorship.

gunner | 01-15-2007 12:06 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Things would be a lot easier if this were a dictatorship...as long as I'm the dictator" - GW Bush aka the "decider" this appears to be the plan all along

Reality | 01-15-2007 12:42 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Ok, I'll bite. Because everyone is taking the side against this law, I'll take the opposing argument and attempt to convince you that this pending law is very good for us. First, I read the law to say two things: 1. Thou shall not start hoarding when it's really too late to start a hoard anyway. 2. Stores/retailers/individuals shall not sell things at the last minute for huge prices, greater than 10% premiums. Here's a positive underlying message I see in the law: 1.The State of Montana highly values those of you who are already prepared and we hope this law will encourage everyone else to plan and prepare ahead of time - Thanks advance hoarders! 2. The State of Montana urges you rich people to create pre-stocked hoards starting today. Having a wad of cash isn't going to help you because the shelves will be empty in a heart beat due to items being sold far under market. Don't let your wealth delay your planning, doing so could put others in jeopardy. Even without this law, no amount of cash will buy the last bottle of water anyway. 3. Those of you who are already prepared have the most to gain from this law, because you'll have fewer unprepared people begging for your supplies (begging with a gun or knife). The State of Montana urges you intelligent pre-planners to help support this law for your own best survival. End of Argument Ok, so even if they didn't have this motive, doesn't the law have these benefits anyway as perhaps an unintended consequence? Reality

REV127 | 01-15-2007 12:54 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner (Post 474243) http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_F...rders/EOs.html So Where Do Anti-Hoarding Laws Come In? These ideas of anti-hoarding legislation may have stemmed from two areas of confusion: First is from Executive Orders in place dating back to 1939 which Clinton has grouped together under one order, EO #12919 released on June 6, 1994. The following EOs all fall under EO#12919: 10995--Federal seizure of all communications media in the US; 10997--Federal seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, public and private; 10998--Federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private and all farms and equipment; 10999--Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks, or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and water ways; 11000--Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires; 11001--Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private; 11002--Empowers the Postmaster General to register every single person in the US 11003--Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft; 11004--Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establish new locations for populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds; 11005--Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private; 11051--Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension of economic or financial crisis (FEMA will be in control incase of "National Emergency"). These EOs are not aimed at anti-hoarding but rather at seizure or confiscation of items and facilities "to provide a state of readiness in these resource areas with respect to all conditions of national emergency, including attack upon the United States." You'll find most 'seizure' legislation ends with this phrase. These Executive Orders don't define what specifically constitutes a national emergency and maybe this is as it should be. The specifics on hoarding are left up to the individual states.
These cause me to take a much harsher view of JFK. Good luck siezing my "hoard", dillweeds. I'll torch my stuff before I'll let it be taken away, there is no excuse for theft. I don't rely on hoards but on renewable resources, some of which are not so obvious and would probably remain untouched. Still, I am mostly vulnerable to having my crops and livestock stolen, which in a real catastrophe I'm going to have to interpret as a direct deadly attack on myself and my family.

mtnman | 01-15-2007 01:05 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 474198) What utter idiocy! Price, the rate of exchange between goods and services and money, is the most efficient way of allocating precious and scarce resources when and only when it [price] is determined in a completely free market (in other words: price must only be a function of supply and demand, period). This moronic law will exacerbate scarcity of essentials in a crisis simply because no intelligent thinking person will sell something for less than what it is worth(!) - he will keep his precious stash rather than give it away at government-decreed bargain-basement prices! The ignorance of basic economics and incessant pandering by our government is astounding. Stupid socialists!
That's where section 5 comes into play, NO HOARDING THE TIME FOR REVOLUTION IS VERY NEAR.

Horn | 01-15-2007 01:11 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] 1 Attachment(s) No, no, really, it's idiocracy http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,1224344,00.html

gunner | 01-15-2007 02:42 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 474288) These cause me to take a much harsher view of JFK. Good luck siezing my "hoard", dillweeds. I'll torch my stuff before I'll let it be taken away, there is no excuse for theft. I don't rely on hoards but on renewable resources, some of which are not so obvious and would probably remain untouched. Still, I am mostly vulnerable to having my crops and livestock stolen, which in a real catastrophe I'm going to have to interpret as a direct deadly attack on myself and my family.
I totally agree - determining my homestead to be "unsafe" and then forcing relocation while stealing my supplies....that's an outright assault by a rogue group of thugs - plain and simple. God-given rights to self preservation cannot be legislated away, no matter what language is used in the declaration.

Halophyte | 01-15-2007 03:10 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Hoarder better stay out of Montana.

Maddie | 01-15-2007 07:10 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] We've all known that laws like this either existed or could come into existence in a heartbeat when it suited the government. I'll bet the next executive order will excuse the government from paying for what they've taken when the crisis is over. Anyway, antihoarding laws are the main reason survivalists should be so secretive about their preps. You can bet there would be a bid media campaign encouraging people to turn in those "anti-American" hoarders who are keeping everyone else from getting their "fair share" of what's left. As someone else said, I'll destroy it all myself before I let them take my property.

hoarder | 01-15-2007 07:20 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] The Bolsheviks starved out millions of Ukranians by preventing them from obtaining food. Hoarding was punishable by death. Anti-hoarding laws are what made it possible for the Bolsheviks to ensure that no "hoarders" were feeding the starving masses, so anyone having any food was an enemy of the state. People never learn.

thorgrim | 01-15-2007 08:04 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] This isn't stupidity, this is calculated. They don't want anyone around not dependant on the government. Food will be used by them as a tool to force compliance. :bowdown:

Scorpio | 01-15-2007 08:29 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] stupid question, has the definition of 'hoarding' been created? Do they have a basis to determine what is hoarding and what is not, or will it be strictly case be case and local subjective opinion?

TheSimpleton | 01-15-2007 08:43 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Arbitrary enforcement, of course, like all other laws. What is the Ayn Rand quote about passing laws until at last every man is in violation of one? Then enforcing as you wish? Or perhaps you remember "Cold Mountain"? "I'm as good as dead if you take that hog!" In any case, people as poor as myself can't afford to hoard, so I'll leave it to y'all. TS

<SLV> | 01-15-2007 09:28 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Government exists for the preservation of government. The citizens are merely collateral to enhance the effectiveness, comfort, and control of TPTB. As the end nears (quite possibly around 2020-2027) the entire system will be revealed for the depravity that is inherent in it. American citizens are living in the illusion of prosperity created for the purpose of lulling them into complacency and apathy. (Man, do I miss HT.) SLV

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- - 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=100496)

mamboni | 01-15-2007 09:47 AM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio (Post 474478) stupid question, has the definition of 'hoarding' been created? Do they have a basis to determine what is hoarding and what is not, or will it be strictly case be case and local subjective opinion?
I'm sure the definition if hoarding shares similarity with the definition of anti-trust as [arbitrarily] enforced by the US government. There's a chapter on the latter in Ayn Rand's "Capitalism, the unknown ideal" that discusses the US case against Alcoa Alumininum. In brief, the latter corporation was found guilty of anti-trust because it was able to fabricate aluminum more efficiently and sell it for lower prices than it's competitors, I kid you not!:banghead:

Bill | 01-15-2007 12:20 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Looks like Arizona is considering something similar: 44-1376.04. Hoarding prohibited; definition A. During a declaration of a state of emergency or a finding of an abnormal market disruption as prescribed in this article, a person shall not engage in hoarding an essential good or service. B. For the purposes of this section, "hoarding" means withholding, obstructing, interfering with or placing unreasonable restrictions or conditions on the prompt delivery, transportation or sale at retail or wholesale of an essential product or service during a declaration of a state of emergency or a finding of an abnormal market disruption in the specific geographic area covered by the declaration or finding. Full text here

Abouthadit | 01-15-2007 01:12 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 474458) This isn't stupidity, this is calculated. They don't want anyone around not dependant on the government. Food will be used by them as a tool to force compliance. :bowdown:
Correctmundo on controlling of the food supply, along with water.

Reality | 01-15-2007 02:13 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Maybe I just don't get it, but isn't this the definition of hoarding?: Hoarding is: The act of acquiring, in a time of limited resources, more resources than you require for your immediate needs. Hoarding is NOT: The act of maintaining a well stocked pantry (or cave), stocked in a time of great public excess. True hoarding is bad because if you are taking more resources than you need, in a time of shortages, then someone else will not have their basic needs met. Here's an example of hoarding that I think you would all have your own "personal laws" against: Imagine if I was your 17 year old son, and well after the SHTF, our family was was running low on certain supplies. Let's say we were running out of peanut butter. Now let's say you caught me taking one of the last remaining jars of peanut butter and further, you found that I was hiding the peanut butter in a hidden place where I could assure my own future needs (at the peril of the family). I would guess that every one on this board would agree that I deserve a severe punishment for true hoarding (by the above definition) during a SHTF event. Now, in a similar example, imagine if prior to the SHTF event, that I (your 17 year old son), had a job and instead of spending all my money on cars and girls, I quietly built a stash of peanut butter in my bedroom closet without your knowledge. Now let's say that after the SHTF, you asked me "son, we have adequate supplies of peanut butter for the family that we acquired well before the SHTF and I notice that you haven't touched any. What's up with that?" "Well dad", I said, "My closet is filled with peanut butter jars that I bought with the money I prudently saved prior to the SHTF".... You (Dad) say "Oh son! I'm so proud of you - your advance planning has really helped the family and even if you don't share your personal stash with us, you are helping us by taking pressure off of our family resources" Can you guys support my definition of what hoarding is and what hoarding isn't? Do you see the difference between the two examples? Is it possible that the State of Montana is thinking the same way about their "extended" family (everyone in the state)?: True hoarding is bad and advance planning and maintaining reserves is good. Reality

gunner | 01-15-2007 02:19 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Reality, I think most of us see the difference - the question is will FEMA when they come for our supplies? The problem we have is that th letter of the law is pretty much irrelevent, now we look at the "spirit" of the law. Also, satandard operating procedure is confiscate when in doubt, let a judge sort it out. ...and we haven't even seen martial law yet - that should be really fun. Military rule, no restrictions on use/abuse of power.

Reality | 01-15-2007 02:45 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner (Post 474854) Reality, I think most of us see the difference - the question is will FEMA when they come for our supplies? ...and we haven't even seen martial law yet - that should be really fun. Military rule, no restrictions on use/abuse of power.
When the SHTF, our military and police resources (that haven't simply gone home to be with families) will be stretched to the max. They will have their hands full with WWIII, maintaining peace in breadlines, and will be busy arresting true hoarders who have gone back to the store 10 times in a single day. Since we're just staying home (well beyond the throngs) they'll be happy to ignore us for quite some time. By then, our personal stores will likely be used up and we'll be either self-sustaining (with barely enough resources to provide for ourselves), or we'll be joining the rapidly diminishing (due to dieoff) throngs. My biggest fear is being drafted (into the military or police) "ummm, yes, we know you're over 80, hard of hearing, half blind, and riddled with arthritis but you're the best we've got" will be heard many times as folks are "recruited".

Copperhead | 01-15-2007 02:55 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 474155) NEW SECTION. Section 4. Unconscionable pricing prohibited. (1) During a declaration of a state of emergency or a finding of an abnormal market disruption, a person may not offer for sale at an unconscionable price an essential good or service, at retail or wholesale, within the affected area. (2) A price is prima facie unconscionable if it is 10% or more above the average price charged by a person for the essential good or service during the 30 days before the declaration of a state of emergency or the finding of an abnormal market disruption. (3) If a person did not offer for sale an essential good or service, at retail or wholesale, within an affected area during the 30 days before the declaration of the state of emergency or the finding of an abnormal market disruption, it is a prima facie violation of subsection (1) to charge a price that represents a gross disparity from the price at which the good or service was readily obtainable in the affected area during the 30 days immediately before the declaration or finding. NEW SECTION. Section 5. Hoarding prohibited. During a declaration of a state of emergency or a finding of an abnormal market disruption, a person may not engage in hoarding an essential good or service. :rolleyes: They are talking about YOUR stash and barter goods WTSHTF Linky to full Bill
In other words ........no free enterprise.

keehah | 01-15-2007 04:31 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] I'll agree with many; little likelihood of enforcement at the time. The real impact of this legislation is that it will prevent many business from seeing the opportunity to stock up on items needed during an emergency before any emergency. No business case to spend the extra money to keep extra stock on hand of candidate items for weeks or years then not be able to sell at a higher price to pay the additional storage and pre-sale expiry costs. Just another crap legislation fueling the fires of future chaos.

blueice | 01-15-2007 10:27 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] In an emergency, when supplies are needed, Cuba, ohh sorry, Montana will not get the need goods and services because their neighbors will pay more.

RiverRat | 01-15-2007 10:59 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] :cool2: Two week supply ? We buy groceries and household items by the year..not by the week. Bulk buying beats retail to hell and back. So anyone who tries to save money and look ahead is automatically branded a hoarder by their definition. Why should the politicians stock up or store anything ? They can send out the stormtroopers to loot anything they need from the populace. As long as they eat...who cares if everyone else starves ? The just on time delivery mentality and running down to the supermarket to get a pack of Doritos will be the cause of mass starvation. Those law enforcement guys and the NG will be glad to confiscate and loot everything you own...leaving you to starve. Most of what they confiscate will go to their own families before the remainder is ever turned over for public distribution and storage. Two weeks ? The average family probably has less than one weeks supply of anything thanks to their confidence in the supply chain that food will always be available. As I said before...Unworkable and moronic reasoning. Reminds me of Custer and his arrogance towards the Indians... We are smarter and better armed...therefore we can't lose. Sounds like Custer is role model for politicians in Montana...they just forgot to read how the story ends. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Worldmariner | 01-16-2007 03:11 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 474208) Attachment 22801 Almost lunch...time to enforce that there new hoarder law :wavey: these laws are already in most states. don't tell anybody about your stash. they will just "confiscate" your Preps.
Well, down here in FL... during hurricane season, gas price gauging is the norm, as is (and this really burns my ass) shutting off the regular no lead so only the mid and super grades will sell. There are only two grades of gas for sale now at most gas stations... low and super. Only two. Yes true. The mid grade pump takes a 50/50 suction on both tanks and mixes the two grades to creat the mid grade. So shutting of the low pump ensures higher profits for the gas station, other wise everyone would buy the low until it ran out then start on the premium. ANYWAY... there seems to be no gauging controls here in FL. The chains, like Hess, Shell, et cetera, do not set thier prices locally. The pump prices are controlled by a satellite or cell uplink, and are changed BY THE CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS. So the gauging in south FL in a cane is set by the Chicago HQ. Amazing. When I learned that from a gas station manager my head nearly popped off.

Worldmariner | 01-16-2007 03:25 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 475297) :cool2: Two week supply ? We buy groceries and household items by the year..not by the week. Bulk buying beats retail to hell and back. So anyone who tries to save money and look ahead is automatically branded a hoarder by their definition. Why should the politicians stock up or store anything ? They can send out the stormtroopers to loot anything they need from the populace. As long as they eat...who cares if everyone else starves ? The just on time delivery mentality and running down to the supermarket to get a pack of Doritos will be the cause of mass starvation. Those law enforcement guys and the NG will be glad to confiscate and loot everything you own...leaving you to starve. Most of what they confiscate will go to their own families before the remainder is ever turned over for public distribution and storage. Two weeks ? The average family probably has less than one weeks supply of anything thanks to their confidence in the supply chain that food will always be available. As I said before...Unworkable and moronic reasoning. Reminds me of Custer and his arrogance towards the Indians... We are smarter and better armed...therefore we can't lose. Sounds like Custer is role model for politicians in Montana...they just forgot to read how the story ends. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Good points... When I stock up, and I do stock many different things, I try and use the off-radar theory. I keep low key about what I buy and how much I buy and why I buy. 300 pounds of various beens? "Oh the twins are making bean bag furniture" if queried by the cashier. The only way I stick out during emergencies is by my distinct absence. I leave the area, or sometimes, just stay holed up for 5 days, hanging out in my house, reading and playing with my girlfriend. My goal is to not be in a position where I need to venture out the day or 5 after a Cat 5 blows through. I run the electric lights and heaters et cetera (generator) during the day. Night time is dominated by alternative lighting. Not a perfect plan, but I watch TV the day after a cane and I see people trying to buy water, ice, food, gas. *sigh* Dumbasses.

Kahlil Gibran | 03-17-2007 12:57 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] 1 Attachment(s) Attachment 25572 Proud to be a Hoarder

Fiat Mutiny | 03-17-2007 01:12 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 474458) This isn't stupidity, this is calculated. They don't want anyone around not dependant on the government. Food will be used by them as a tool to force compliance. :bowdown:
My sentiments exactly. Wait. How do the Mormons feel about this? Do I need to pretend that I am a Mormon and claim that it is my religious right to hoard?

CajunCoin | 03-17-2007 03:27 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 474155) NEW SECTION. Section 4. Unconscionable pricing prohibited. (1) During a declaration of a state of emergency or a finding of an abnormal market disruption, a person may not offer for sale at an unconscionable price an essential good or service, at retail or wholesale, within the affected area. (2) A price is prima facie unconscionable if it is 10% or more above the average price charged by a person for the essential good or service during the 30 days before the declaration of a state of emergency or the finding of an abnormal market disruption. (3) If a person did not offer for sale an essential good or service, at retail or wholesale, within an affected area during the 30 days before the declaration of the state of emergency or the finding of an abnormal market disruption, it is a prima facie violation of subsection (1) to charge a price that represents a gross disparity from the price at which the good or service was readily obtainable in the affected area during the 30 days immediately before the declaration or finding. NEW SECTION. Section 5. Hoarding prohibited. During a declaration of a state of emergency or a finding of an abnormal market disruption, a person may not engage in hoarding an essential good or service. :rolleyes: They are talking about YOUR stash and barter goods WTSHTF Linky to full Bill
Bill has been tabled in committee, this bill is similar to one in several other states which ONLY APPLIES IN COMMERCIAL TRANSACTIONS, hoarding is defined as withholding goods and services off the market to inflate their worth or value, very hard to enforce. Montana, land of the anti 55 speed limit, very libertarian state, I did not think this would get anywhere.

AMforPM | 03-17-2007 07:04 PM
Re: 2007 Montana anti-Hoarding Law [pending] So they can steal our food and generators, and gardens, split up families and put them on the chain gang? I found that forced labor relocation, splitting families bit the worst. They might try, but that is not going to fly. When you push people to the life or death limit then all he11 breaks loose.

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