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- - The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=412785)

Saul Mine | 10-04-2009 09:15 AM
The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward By Tim Cahill www.atlatl.com Okay, it's Mexico, 1520 A.D., and you're a conquistador with Cortez. Across the field of battle there's a bunch of Aztecs - savages, to your way of thinking - guys carrying sticks and wearing feathers. You're all decked out in a nice secure suit of armor and moving up on these clowns, getting into musket range, when whomp - out of the nowhere of a hundred yards away a 6 ft. long gadget that's not quite an arrow and not quite a Spear punctures your armor and drives deep into your chest. These things you discover have barbed obsidian points, the kind you have to push through the body and pull out the other side to remove. This, unfortunately, is an impossible task, since you're sort of pinned into your armor. Some feather guy threw this thing at you using a stick about two feet long. And pretty soon you'll be dead. Well, it's mortifying. The Aztecs called the system - the throwing stick and dart - an Atlatl. Bernal Diaz, a conquistador who wrote the book The Conquest of New Spain about his experiences, called the Atlatl the most feared of all Aztecs weapons. The darts, he said, easily penetrated armor, and many Spaniards died that way, pierced through the chest like so many metallic insects on a display board.God does not allow us to dicker significantly with the continuum of space and time, but it would be instructive to listen to a conversation between some pierced conquistador and certain modern archaeologists and anthropologists. In 1940, for instance, a respected researcher named Jim Browne built what he supposed were accurate reproductions of atlatls, then spent six months in intensive practice with his creations. He concluded that the things weren't much use as weapons. At thirty yards, Browne said, he might, on a good day, hit something the size of a buffalo once in ten tries. The pierced conquistadors, I'm certain, would dispute Browne on this point. So the historical and archaeological question arises: How did these things work so well in the early sixteenth century when modern scientists have proven that they don't work at all? (snip) I looked at the gadget in my hand. As a hunting weapon, the Atlatl bad the human race in its infancy; as a weapon of war, it frightened and slew the Spaniards. The whole thing is nothing more than a couple of sticks of wood, but it's a representation of human genius through the ages, a sublime and curiously inspiring concept that, incidentally, is keeping Bob Perkins and Paul Leininger in beer money. Cute video here.

Ragnarok | 10-04-2009 09:58 AM
Re: The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward I would imagine that with modern materials this thing could be "upgraded" into quite a formidable and effective weapon.

hoarder | 10-04-2009 10:40 AM
Re: The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward I bet Brown was right about the atlatl. They were likely used at close range. I was surprised they were still using the atlatl. The atlatl was used for thousands of years before they invented the bow and arrow about 2,000 years ago. Cortez was correct to think of the Aztecs as savages. They served him a dish of human flesh and made human sacrifices.

RJB | 10-04-2009 11:26 AM
Re: The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward I love primitive weaponry. I hunt with a longbow I made. I've made 3 atlatls over the years. I can hit a strawbail from 20 yards pretty easily and I haven't practiced a whole lot. My opinion is that they are better suited for thick skinned and slower moving animal than a bow. Deer and turkey IMHO are better suited for the bow. Seal, buffalo etc. are better for the atlatl. Eskimoes still use the atlatl. Although I know a primitologist who gets a turkey every year with an atlatl. There was a study conducted that showed the spear was ineffective against a wooly mamoth. Archeologist were trying to say early man just ate rats, mice and other small animals... ...BUT the atlatl brought dignity back to our early ancestors. They did another study on a dead elephant. They tried to stab the elephant with a stone tipped spear-- It barely pierced the skin. The atlatl dart puntures through the chest cavity.

gunDriller | 10-04-2009 02:51 PM
Re: The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward http://www.nwtpa.com/ATLATL%20DEMO.jpg now i understand.

GOLD DUCK | 10-04-2009 03:37 PM
Re: The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward QWAK,I remember as a kid:thinkey: reading about "THROWING STICKS" and tried to make one -- did not work very well compared to simple BOW and ARROWS mads from the neabors LILACK BUSHES!:452: Amasing we never put any ones eyes out!!:yes::36_1_25: Would jam NAILES up the arrow shaft and wrap the arrow ends with LEAD solder so they were like a weighted DART!:thinkey: the DUCK :15_1_70v:

Haltiat | 10-04-2009 03:58 PM
Re: The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward As I recall the Spanish came to prefer escaupiles and chain mail as armor in the New World after using plate during their earliest expeditions. Escaupiles are padded and quilted cloth, chain mail has many tiny holes. I know reed arrow shafts would splinter on impact with chain mail and that is what would penetrate. I suspect the atlatls were penetrating escaupiles as plate armor of the 15th and 16th century was no joke. It was difficult to pierce with iron tipped projectiles and some was being made that could stop early firearms. 100 yards seems very unlikely against plate armor. The atlatl can carry more energy than a practical recurve bow but it does so by using a much heavier projectile launched at a lower velocity. Low velocity and high grain weight just isn't a good formula for power at long range. It can be quite satisfactory up close however.

cuauhtemoc | 10-04-2009 04:30 PM
Re: The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 1954036) Cortez was correct to think of the Aztecs as savages. They served him a dish of human flesh and made human sacrifices.
If you ever ate pork, then you know what humans taste like. This is what the aztec said after munching on their victims. :tongue_ma:

hoarder | 10-04-2009 04:56 PM
Re: The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward Quote:
Originally Posted by cuauhtemoc (Post 1954354) If you ever ate pork, then you know what humans taste like. This is what the aztec said after munching on their victims. :tongue_ma:
Maybe that's why the Pacific Islanders referred to human prey as "long pig". BTW, I'm sitting here eating my pork and beans.....thanks.

RJB | 10-04-2009 09:24 PM
Re: The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward Here's some tips on improving accuracy. You Tube
You Tube

RJB | 10-04-2009 09:30 PM
Re: The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward One more point to the advantage of the atlatl. I make longbows. I love archery over the atlatl hands down. However I could make a quicky atlatl and a dart capable of taking down just about any animal in North America. To make a bow to my standards it would take 3 days minimum to cure the wood. You could bundle dry branches but from my experience atlatls beat the wood bundle bows.

Zilver | 10-04-2009 10:07 PM
Re: The Atlatl: A Great Leap Backward check out this master of a primitive weapon :............:applause_ <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9ieWrWLjii0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9ieWrWLjii0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Here's something to add to your survival "bag o tricks":bear_thumb: . Using the Slingshot to Hunt Big Game ::bear_cry: <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NGIcCRJGYug&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NGIcCRJGYug&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NshtEe_TsRA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NshtEe_TsRA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-6LxKfpAPYA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-6LxKfpAPYA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

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