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Caligula | 06-21-2008 02:54 PM
YOYO ~ You're On Your Own You're On Your Own (YOYO) http://millennium-ark.net/News_Files...in_Veneer.html By R. L. Seigneur, Major (Ret.) The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled again that the police do not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm (Town of Castle Rock, Colorado v. Gonzales) The U.S. Supreme Court's 7-2 decision overturned a ruling by a federal appeals court (No. 04-278. Argued March 21, 2005-Decided June 27, 2005). The lower court had permitted a lawsuit against Castle Rock, Colorado for the failure of the police to enforce a protective order which had led to the murder of the woman's three children by her estranged husband. The Supreme Court ruled that the woman did not have the right to sue the town or the police department. Any incident/situation in which the police are not available to protect you can be referred to as �You're on your own� or �YOYO� situations. I'm not sure who first coined the YOYO acronym, but I give them full credit. The Thin Veneer of Civilization By R. L. Seigneur, Major (Ret.) My father's generation can best described as that generation of Americans that lived through the Great Depression, served during WWII, and afterwards went to college, and/or got a job and started a family. At an appropriate time, a veteran might share a WWII story with another veteran. For example: Shortly after one of those bloody island battles characteristic of the war in the Pacific during WWII, a group of Marines who had participated in the battle was standing in a chow line back aboard ship. The chow line was so long it stretched out onto one of the exterior walkways on the outside of the ship. Without explanation or apology, a sailor cut the chow line. One of the Marines nearby picked the sailor up and threw him over the side of the ship into the ocean. No one said a word. I've personally witnessed soldiers steal food from each others' rucksacks when extremely cold, tired, and hungry. It was not a prank; it was theft from a brother soldier. I remember a story told by a psychology professor who had taken a sabbatical from his teaching position and went to work as a police office for one year. He wanted to prove to himself that the intelligent use of psychology by a police officer could work wonders in most situations. He came back from his sabbatical a changed man. What he really learned was that he often found himself in situations that were so dangerous that he did not just want a gun, he wanted a big gun, and he was very willing to use it to get out of a bad situation. Given a �YOYO� scenario (You're On Your Own), if you think that you, those around you, and the people across town won't change when things get really bad, then you must be an average American who's never been really cold, tired, hungry and scared. Use of Deadly Force By R. L. Seigneur, Major (Ret.) Would you believe I served in two branches of the U. S. Armed Forces during three wars (without being shot at) and never clearly understood the use of deadly force until, as a civilian-citizen, I took a concealed-carry course in order to obtain a permit to legally carry a concealed weapon (pistol or revolver)? Yes, it may be sad, but it's unfortunately very true. Many years before I took a concealed-carry class I witnessed a firearm introduced into a bad situation where somebody died needlessly because an average guy, thinking he was doing the right thing, got in over his head. In my opinion, he got in over his head because he did not have a basic understanding of the justifiable use of deadly force. Had he learned and remembered even the basics, I'm sure a life would have been saved that night, and his life would not have been ruined. The incident I witnessed was foolish, tragic, and--most importantly--avoidable. In my mind, there was no obvious bad guy. There was however foolishness layered upon foolishness, and sometimes that's all it takes. Let me give you a basic overview of the justifiable use of deadly force ONLY to motivate you to seek more information and training. This is a deadly seriously subject, and you had better get smart on it as soon as possible. I'm not training you and I'm not giving you legal advice. Each state or territory has its own laws and YOU have a responsibility to know what they are and abide by them. The basic rule or concept is that in order to use deadly force justifiably, you must be in fear for your life or be in fear of great bodily harm. Here are a few more realities to be aware of: You may NOT use deadly force in defense of property. If some nut is beating you new BMW with a ball peen hammer in the parking lot, call 911 and let the police sort it out. If someone is stealing you new color TV and presents no threat to you, let them have it-it costs much less to buy a new TV than it does to hire a good lawyer to defend you against a criminal charge of any kind. Note: The military is authorized to use deadly force to protect nuclear weapons and other high value resources. No matter how justifiable the use of deadly force was, there is a high probability you will be bankrupt by the time the criminal and civil legal proceedings are over No matter how justified the use of deadly force was, there is a high probability you will be ostracized in your community No matter how justifiable the use of deadly force was, there is a high probability you will be divorced, and you may lose you job No matter how justifiable the use of deadly force was, everything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law No matter how justified the use of deadly force was, there is a high probability the news media will get the facts wrong No matter how justifiable the use of deadly force was, there is a high probability the prosecutor can and will turn the jury against you by using things you could have never imagined as evidence that you are a irresponsible, reckless, blood thirsty, danger to society and should go to prison Deadly force is deadly force: Regardless of the instrument/weapon used (rock, shovel, baseball bat, bare hands, or automobile) the primary issue is, �Was the use of deadly force justifiable under state the law?� The weapon is not the issue. Generally speaking, the state laws that govern the use of deadly force by police officers are the same laws that govern the use of deadly force by civilian-citizens. Once you get smart on deadly force law, you'll be able to amaze your friends and family by quickly providing an initial, logical, snapshot analysis of why a shooting incident reported the press appears to be justified or appears to be unjustified. And you'll be amazed by friends and family when you discover they have no clue as to what you are talking about. Now imagine the people reporting for jury duty every day in this country probably have no clue either. Knives: Generally speaking, a knife is considered a deadly weapon. If you have an opened knife in your hand, are 21 feet or less from a police officer, and make an aggressive movement towards that police office, you will most likely be shot on the spot; and justifiably so. If you have an opened knife in your hand, are 21 feet or less from an armed citizen, and make an aggressive movement towards that armed citizen, you will most likely be shot on the spot; and justifiably so. In the two scenarios above, both the police office and the armed citizen had reason to fear for their lives or fear great bodily harm from you and your knife; therefore, generally speaking, deadly force is authorized. Legal Representation: If you need or want clarification on any legal issue, by all means seek out and obtain quality legal advice from a qualified attorney. In fact, I personally recommend finding the best criminal defense attorney you can afford long before you actually need one to represent you. Pay the attorney their retainer fee up front, and carry their business card with at all times. If and when you come in contact with the police during any significant situation, or any situation that you don't understand or makes you feel uncomfortable (to include a traffic stop that seems to be taking on a life of its own), keep you mouth shut and hand the police your attorney's business card. I say again, keep you month shut because anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. In summary, should you ever have to use deadly force, even if your use of deadly force is found to be completely justified, there is a high probability your life, as you knew it, will never be the same. All of this does not suggest you should not defend yourself, I'm not suggesting that at all, but you better understand the realities of the world you live in. What I've told you here is not the end of the story, it's only the beginning. I highly suggest you become very knowledgeable on this subject by reading such books as In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of Firearms in Personal Protection by Massad F. Ayoob, and (AND!) taking a concealed-carry course of instruction from the best certified instructor you can find, and then keeping your head in the game through continuing education in one form or another. Trust me, even if you never intend to carry a concealed weapon, the training and education you receive will benefit you for a life time. Believe it or not, understanding the justifiable use of deadly force is as fundamental as understanding first-aid or CPR.

Caligula | 06-21-2008 02:55 PM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own The Time Machine (YOYO, Part 2) The Time Machine http://millennium-ark.net/News_Files...eneer.Pt2.html By R. L. Seigneur, Major (Ret.) The US military's medical care for combat related wounds/injuries is better than it's ever been. That's reassuring for American service men and women; as Forrest Gump might say, �Good, one less thing to worry about.� Given a long term �YOYO� scenario, your access to modern medical care is highly questionable for any number of reasons; for example, a break down of infrastructure (e.g., electricity, communications, transportation). Every time I deployed overseas as a military member I learned something new. After a deployment to a country that had been part of the former Soviet Union, I came home with the scales removed from my eyes in terms of how we take our infrastructure for granted, and how fragile our US homeland infrastructure may be. The infrastructure at this particular expeditionary air base was created almost entirely from military assets. Heat, electricity, hot showers, and communications all were produced with military equipment and by military personnel. Impressive, but when something went wrong, we lost communications, heat, electricity, and took cold showers. US homeland infrastructure was built, expanded, and improved over many, many years. It is not the kind of infrastructure you just throw up in a matter of days or weeks. It almost always works so we naturally take it for granted; however, you are doing yourself a big favor to understand that this normally reliable infrastructure is built, maintained and expanded based on business decisions, and those business decisions are based on assumptions of normality. You might say, �Normal is considered normal.� Now, imagine things aren't normal due to severe weather, civil unrest, WMD attack, nearly simultaneous low-tech, terrorist attacks on the infrastructure itself, and/or severe economic disruption. It should give you pause to imagine a scenario in which modern medical care is not a phone call away, and if operating in a contingency mode, its medical personnel are task saturated, and medical capacity is maxed out. Can you say triage? Just as our infrastructure is built for the demands of normalcy, our medical care facilities are built and staffed for the demands of normalcy. While they may have a surge capability, even this is limited. Given a long term �YOYO� scenario, and assuming modern medical care is unavailable for any reason, you will have been effectively transported back in time to the medical conditions of the civil war in which antibiotics were unavailable, pain medications were scarce, and crude amputations ruled the day. Therefore, one of your neighborhood-watch-committee's/clan's highest priorities will be to locate and recruit doctors, nurse practitioners, physician's assistants (PAs), and paramedics. The Tiger's Claws Assuming you may someday find yourself in a total, long term YOYO scenario (e.g., a complete breakdown in law and order) due to some catastrophic event such as a long term disruption of the power grid that creates civil unrest, you may find yourself in a position that requires you to think like an infantry soldier. From the smallish book The Defence of Duffer's Drift by E. D. Swinton I gleaned one important lesson I had not absorbed from my own infantry training. This book is considered a classic on small unit tactics. It has been used by German officers during the First World War (WWI) and West Point cadets between WWI and WWII. There are many lessons to be learned or reinforced in this enduring text set at the time of the Boer War (a guerrilla war), but one lesson impressed me more than all the others. The one lesson that most impressed me was that infantryman did not always use the maximum effective range of the infantry rifle (approximately 480 meters by today's standards) to good effect when on defense. Maximum effective range can be defined as: The maximum distance at which a weapon may be expected to be accurate and achieve the desired effect. A potential (and deadly) mistake when establishing defensive positions, is to forget to use the infantry rifle's deadly reach, and position available defenders so close to that thing being defended, for example a bridge or tactically significant road junction, that the defending troops find themselves functioning more as bar bouncers than as tigers whose claws can kill at ranges of 400 meters or more. A better approach-assuming the terrain cooperates-is to move away from that thing being defended and use both terrain and maximum effective range to their best advantage in order to deny the enemy the avenues of approach needed to reach (then occupy/destroy) that thing being defended. Another way to rap your mind around this concept is to imagine yourself (with family and friends) in a �YOYO� situation where your family/band/clan desires to defend a cluster of farm/ranch buildings in a rural location-terrain permitting-�Would you attempt to defend from inside the cluster or from outside the cluster?� If you answered, �From outside the cluster,� you apparently understand the concept. Be forewarned that no matter how useful the tactic/concept appears, sometimes it fits and sometimes it doesn't. Being able to select the optimum concept/tactic in a particular situation is more an art than a science, and separates the truly gifted tactician from the average. Always Cheat Always Win As far as I can determine, �Always Cheat Always Win� is a concept that demands that you think outside the box and never be foolish enough to fight a fair fight. �Fair fights� get a lot of young people killed. There were a lot of fair fights orchestrated by generals who knew too much and thought too little during the US Civil War and WWI. The outcome was a lot of dead soldiers on both sides and not enough results to justify the loss of life. The Germans concluded by the end of WWI that they needed to think outside the box. The ultimate result was used to kick off WWII: blitzkrieg or Lightning War. Should you find yourself in a �YOYO� environment, thinking outside the box will be fundamental to your survivability. And by all means, don't fall under the influence of someone who knows too much and thinks too little. Improvised Weapons Not all weapons go bang. Sharp sticks don't go bang. Rocks don't go bang. Neither do entrenching tools, utility knives, axes, hatchets, spades, the toe of your boot, or the heel of your hand. Given a �YOYO� scenario, bare in mind that even if you or your opposition lack weapons that go bang, the highly motivated, innovative-type can still create a lot of mayhem with a bow & arrow, and a can of gasoline. Poseurs in Camouflage Know why al-Qaeda-types make good soldiers? Answer: Because they're willing to kill and willing to die. Know why a lot of American military members are nothing more than frauds in uniform? You guessed it. I can't begin to tell you how many American military members recoil in fear when you hand them a loaded firearm. I've seen military members close their eyes when firing their weapons during re-qualification at the range. I've had military members look at me with horror in there eyes when I directed them to man a checkpoint in the dark. And I've had American military members tell me that they were pursuing a military career for the pay and benefits, and all that kill-or-be-killed stuff was for some dimwit who didn't know better. Given a �YOYO� scenario, expect the numbers of sheep to significantly outnumber the sheepdogs. Train Hard, Fight Easy I believe during the Cold War era the Soviets best emphasized the dictate to �train hard, fight easy� but it was also a core belief of the Spartans. The better and more realistic the training, the better the performance is in a real fight. Today, close combat instructors will tell you without hesitation that how you train is how you fight, and how you fight is how you train. Given you want to be well prepared for a �YOYO� scenario, get out there beforehand and pursue the best training you can find. For example, take a good first-aid class and follow that with CPR. Even if you can shoot well, pursue the best training you can find to shoot a rifle, shotgun, and pistol better and safer under realistic conditions than you do now. Once you're trained to high level, in a �YOYO� scenario expect that you will have to train others (e.g., first-aid, field expedient medicine, handling and operating weapons safely, marksmanship, etc.). How are your teaching skills? When was the last time you created a quality lesson plan?

Twisted Avatar | 06-21-2008 03:08 PM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own This is VERY good read............... excellent material. Hat tip on finding this great article. T

Twisted Avatar | 06-21-2008 03:16 PM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own The U.S. Supreme Court's 7-2 decision overturned a ruling by a federal appeals court (No. 04-278. Argued March 21, 2005-Decided June 27, 2005). The lower court had permitted a lawsuit against Castle Rock, Colorado for the failure of the police to enforce a protective order which had led to the murder of the woman's three children by her estranged husband. The Supreme Court ruled that the woman did not have the right to sue the town or the police department. Any incident/situation in which the police are not available to protect you can be referred to as “You're on your own” or “YOYO” situations. See what I mean??..........Can it get any clearer than that?? If Cops show up they are not there to help you........... EVER ............. and if they dont show up you are S.O.L. You better wake up and realize this is SERIOUS DAM BUSINESS. You are the FIRST LAST AND ONLY LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THOSE WHO SEEK TO DO YOU OR YOUR LOVED ONES HARM. Get busy and stay busy ARMING YOURSELF TO THE FRICKEN TEETH T

Twisted Avatar | 06-21-2008 03:23 PM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own No matter how justifiable the use of deadly force was, there is a high probability you will be bankrupt by the time the criminal and civil legal proceedings are over No matter how justified the use of deadly force was, there is a high probability you will be ostracized in your community No matter how justifiable the use of deadly force was, there is a high probability you will be divorced, and you may lose you job No matter how justifiable the use of deadly force was, everything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law No matter how justified the use of deadly force was, there is a high probability the news media will get the facts wrong No matter how justifiable the use of deadly force was, there is a high probability the prosecutor can and will turn the jury against you by using things you could have never imagined as evidence that you are a irresponsible, reckless, blood thirsty, danger to society and should go to prison Deadly force is deadly force: Regardless of the instrument/weapon used (rock, shovel, baseball bat, bare hands, or automobile) the primary issue is, �Was the use of deadly force justifiable under state the law?� The weapon is not the issue. Wow.......... That is the reality I see. T

Mosca | 06-21-2008 05:04 PM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own Excellent excellent post. I don't believe the writer's point is arm yourself to the teeth at all. I believe it is all about using what you have to its potential. Practice and become proficient with what you have. Think through what the other guy is expecting you to do and then do something different. It is the old story of PPPPPPP (proper prior preparation prevents piss poor performance)

Txkstew | 06-22-2008 11:40 AM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own Back when I was doing carpenter work for cash, my boss alway said that was the name of our health insurance company.

Twisted Avatar | 06-22-2008 11:59 AM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosca (Post 1156749) Excellent excellent post. I don't believe the writer's point is arm yourself to the teeth at all. I believe it is all about using what you have to its potential. Practice and become proficient with what you have. Think through what the other guy is expecting you to do and then do something different. It is the old story of PPPPPPP (proper prior preparation prevents piss poor performance)
I full agree with that assesment..... God forbid I got into a situation like that .......I would clam up and reapeat like a broken record: I was in fear for my life.......I was in fear for my life .......I was in fear for my life. DO NOT LET THE ATTORNEY CALL ME TO THE WITNESS STAND(deny the the prosecution the abilty to make you look like blood thristy savage)........ JUST LET THE STATMENTS I HAVE MADE SPEAK FOR IT SELF AND THE FACTS AND HAVE THE ATTORNEY ARGUE THAT SHYT OUT. If It pans out and heaven is on my side I will be exonerated......with that I WOULD MOVE THE VERY NEXT DAM DAY......YOU ARE MARKED MAN IN THE COMMUNITY WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AND NEIGHBORS THAT DONT KNOW ANYTHING EXCEPT WHAT THEY READ IN PAPERS......BEST TO START FRESH ELSEWHERE. T

Rebel Yarr | 06-22-2008 01:43 PM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own Quote:
Originally Posted by Txkstew (Post 1157419) Back when I was doing carpenter work for cash, my boss alway said that was the name of our health insurance company.
HAhaah - AWESOME

Silverstone | 06-22-2008 02:03 PM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own Then again, I suppose if someone broke into your home to rob/rape, no one would probably miss the body. Face it, by the time you got a call into the cops, you could possible be dead by the time they arrived (playing by THEIR rules) and your only alternative, as in I don't have a crystal ball to consult to see if this "intruder" is going to hurt me or not (and the "laws" on paper surely aren't going to protect me) would be to shoot to kill...then I'd get hung out to dry in attorney's fees/court costs, defending myself. It's almost a no-win situation for the honest person. You'd have to make sure you had clear-cut evidence that the person meant to do harm, personally, I take breaking into my house clear-cut evidence, unfortuantely the court's will not. What would you do in that situation?

mtnman | 06-22-2008 03:10 PM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverstone (Post 1157563) Then again, I suppose if someone broke into your home to rob/rape, no one would probably miss the body. Face it, by the time you got a call into the cops, you could possible be dead by the time they arrived (playing by THEIR rules) and your only alternative, as in I don't have a crystal ball to consult to see if this "intruder" is going to hurt me or not (and the "laws" on paper surely aren't going to protect me) would be to shoot to kill...then I'd get hung out to dry in attorney's fees/court costs, defending myself. It's almost a no-win situation for the honest person. You'd have to make sure you had clear-cut evidence that the person meant to do harm, personally, I take breaking into my house clear-cut evidence, unfortuantely the court's will not. What would you do in that situation?
Just make sure the dead robber/rapist has a weapon in his hand when the cops get there. Gun, knife, big stick etc.

Tallships | 06-22-2008 04:11 PM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverstone (Post 1157563) Then again, I suppose if someone broke into your home to rob/rape, no one would probably miss the body. Face it, by the time you got a call into the cops, you could possible be dead by the time they arrived (playing by THEIR rules) and your only alternative, as in I don't have a crystal ball to consult to see if this "intruder" is going to hurt me or not (and the "laws" on paper surely aren't going to protect me) would be to shoot to kill...then I'd get hung out to dry in attorney's fees/court costs, defending myself. It's almost a no-win situation for the honest person. You'd have to make sure you had clear-cut evidence that the person meant to do harm, personally, I take breaking into my house clear-cut evidence, unfortuantely the court's will not. What would you do in that situation?
Unless someone else calls the cops, they would never have to know anything ever happened. :wink:

Twisted Avatar | 06-22-2008 04:21 PM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 1157630) Just make sure the dead robber/rapist has a weapon in his hand when the cops get there. Gun, knife, big stick etc.
Or take said body far out of town , non discript location, lay remains over 4 tires douse everything in diesel fuel and torch ...should be nothing left. Or if you know now a good pig farmer that has at least 12-17 hogs they can work it down to nothing in no time bones and all. (greedy as a pig). Both were disclosed by good friends:D T

InfantryNCO | 06-22-2008 11:57 PM
Re: YOYO ~ You're On Your Own Quote:
Here are a few more realities to be aware of: You may NOT use deadly force in defense of property. If some nut is beating you new BMW with a ball peen hammer in the parking lot, call 911 and let the police sort it out. If someone is stealing you new color TV and presents no threat to you, let them have it-it costs much less to buy a new TV than it does to hire a good lawyer to defend you against a criminal charge of any kind.
BS. The author obviously lives in California. Move to a Castle Law state, bub.

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