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Squirrel Bait | 10-02-2007 11:54 AM
Fallout Shelter Hey, does anyone have any good plans for building fallout shelters? I know FEMA has some old stuff they put out back in the 80's but it's hard to read and shows little structural analysis. Any engineers out there. Squirrel Bait

teedub31 | 10-02-2007 12:16 PM
Re: Fallout Shelter Just make sure that you have a lot of mass for protection. Design is not all that important as you will only have to reside in it full time for just a couple of days due to radioactive decay and half life. Just Remember MASS MASS MASS!!

Darkside | 10-02-2007 12:23 PM
Re: Fallout Shelter Quote:
Originally Posted by teedub31 (Post 759478) Just make sure that you have a lot of mass for protection. Design is not all that important as you will only have to reside in it full time for just a couple of days due to radioactive decay and half life. Just Remember MASS MASS MASS!!
What do you mean only for a couple of days? The Chernobyl site is still too dangerous to this day...

REV127 | 10-02-2007 12:35 PM
Re: Fallout Shelter Chernobyl is a different situation. That was a broken reactor, a messy incident. Nuclear weapons are designed to be efficient, to use up as much of the radioactive components as possible in the detonation so their effects don't linger as long. A couple Japanese cities come to mind. Don't get me wrong, it's still bad news. You'll still have a higher incidence of cancer and who knows what else for a very long time, but you won't fall over dead instantly. I don't know about a couple days, though. I was taught a month to a couple months to it being safe enough for you to emerge and leave the area. Mass is a good thing, the easiest way to achieve that is a burried steel or concrete culvert pipe with three to six feet of dirt around it and an entrance at 90 degrees from the habitable area so the radiation doesn't zip right on through to your compartment. An independent overpressure air supply will keep NBC agents out. I'm no engineer though so there's not much more I can advise.

Squirrel Bait | 10-02-2007 01:01 PM
Re: Fallout Shelter I guess what I am looking for is how thick does a conrete ceiling have to be and how much steel rebar do i need to span 10 feet and then put 3 feet of dirt on top of it. All the rest I understand. Until I really need it I'll just use it as a root or wine cellar. And yes I agree, nuclear waepons are far different than Chernobyl. If the weapon is deployed as an air burst the amount of fallout is vastly reduced when compared to a ground burst. What the military teaches and what Hollywood teaches are very different. SB

money matters | 10-02-2007 01:27 PM
Re: Fallout Shelter You don't need a concrete reinforced ceiling to hold 3' of dirt over a 10ft span. Consult a load table in a structural engineering book for proof, but the main thing you Must do is keep the dirt DRY! If you are planning major construction and the expense that goes with it, look at plans for a basement. You might also want to download Cresson Kearny's Nuclear War Survival Skills, it has discussion, plans and exhibits showing expedient shelters that several families constructed in less than 24 hours. Maybe if your backyard is next to a former SAC base, you might need a blast-proof shelter, but likely not. Kearny's book is on free download from ki4u.com; and other places on the net. There is pretty good discussion in Bruce Clayton's Nuclear War Survival Skills, now out of print. You have to have 200lbs of mass between you and the radiation source to mitigate the effects. Fallout also has relatively short lifespan. After about 2 weeks it is mainly harmless. If you are in the downwind path from a likely nuclear target, having a shelter might be a good idea, but you can also shelter in your home. If you have a basement you can stack boxes of dirt, sand, books, fill a kiddie pool or waterbed mattress on the floor above the basement. You want to make a sort of nesting area and surround yourself with an earth sheltered wall and then stack mass around your nest. With overhead mass on the first floor, or maybe you are sheltering under a table with stuff stacked on it; and distance between you and the fallout particles, you should be fine. You might look at plans for building a root cellar. You can use 4x4 treated poles and 2x6 or 2/8s for rafters and if set on 30" centers for about a 10' span build a roofdeck out of 1/2 treated plywood, waterproof it, place dirt, and maybe build a covering roof for the dirt to keep it dry, have minimal load problems. Dirt could be covered with a swimming pool liner, tarps etc. You might also give some thought to purchasing a shipping container or large culvert pipe and then burying it. If nothing else, Kearny shows how with a pick, axe & saw, couple of shovels and some determination you can bug-out to an area out of the blast zone and build a trench-type earthen shelter in about 18hrs.

silverJeep | 10-03-2007 10:38 AM
Re: Fallout Shelter 3 Attachment(s) HERE ARE SOME PLANS I FOUND A WHILE BACK. I HAVE A FEW MORE BUT THEY ARE TOO BIG TO ATTACH HERE. PM ME IF YOU WANT ME TO EMAIL THEM TO YOU. SJ Attachment 34149 Attachment 34150 Attachment 34151

Squirrel Bait | 10-03-2007 01:26 PM
Re: Fallout Shelter Thank you sir, I've got Cresson Kearny's book, so I think I have those. What I'm wanting to do is make something permanent that will double as a root/wine cellar. I can do the majority of the work myself to keep costs low. A structure that is 8 feet wide is relatively easy to span, but if I could go up to 10 or 12 it would increase my area without the costs going up as much as increasing the length. I guess I should just go talk to an engineer. If I find anything out I'll post it here. I should probably try to find some Russian plans. I've heard they never really stopped building these when the Cold war supposedly ended. Thanks SB

money matters | 10-03-2007 02:22 PM
Re: Fallout Shelter Good luck with your project. Consider that your "root cellar" might be at odds with your deed restrictions or homeowners assoc. You can find tables with span weight variables at your library or on the net. Read a book on Underground Homes and you will see the biggest problem is water seapage along the walls and floor. There are lots of ways to keep fallout particles from destroying living tissue. If you need a Blast Shelter, you are simply screwed. Time to move, maybe buy a vacation cabin. The cost of building a concrete structure that will withstand Nuclear detonation within 5 miles will be about 1/2 million, I'm guessing; if you hire the work done. Nicer to have a fishing cabin on a lake somewhere. If you hire construction of a poured concrete "root cellar", you are looking at close to 50K, my guess. If your home is 2 story and you have an interior room, halls and bath; you likely have all the mass you need to shelter-in-place and be comfortable. Can even be done in a single story home, with some planning. A fallout shelter doesn't have to be fancy. A shovel dug ditch with a door and timbers over the pit, with 6mil plastic layer, dirt you dug piled on top is no big deal to construct. Sandbags offer some great potential. Cheap, easy to handle, easy to place, they take pressure without bursting, stop most firearms fire, don't burn, don't absorb a lot of water. Hope you have time to get what you want built.

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