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Beef | 12-13-2008 05:42 PM
When do you have enough silver and gold to get through 2 or 5 or 10 years of bad times and hyper-inflation I don't know if anybody has figured out the answer to that question. You probably can't have too much. I think I need to read up on gardening at this point, and plan to start a garden in the spring. The ground here is frozen solid now, so I don't figure there is anything I can do now except read up. That and stock up on canned goods and staples when I can find them on sale. Very, very few people around me see what could be coming down the pike. I don't know for certain if I'm right, but people like Peter Schiff, Max Keiser, Ron Paul, and Jim Rogers make arguments that make the most sense to me. I see real hard times ahead.

TechGuy | 12-13-2008 05:46 PM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com Add Mish Shedlock to your required reading. I find he balances out the exuberance of the inflationists....

Fullpower | 12-13-2008 05:56 PM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold that depends.... Is your refrigerator box properly covered up with plastic sheeting, with a few spare wooden pallets stacked up for a windbreak? you will probably make do with what you've got. several billion people currently live with less material wealth than ANYBODY posting here, and at least some of them will survive the economic decline.

Sparky | 12-13-2008 05:57 PM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold Gold: 10 years x $25,000 / $825/oz. Silver: 10 years x $25,000 / $10.25/oz. 300 ounces of gold and 25,000 of silver, in your possession right now, should cover you through a decade of hyperinflation and partial unemployment. Are you there yet?

unalga | 12-13-2008 06:08 PM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold Lets see, I make that to be about $500,00 current dollars. I doubt too many of us here have that put aside.

TechGuy | 12-13-2008 06:09 PM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky (Post 1464369) Gold: 10 years x $25,000 / $825/oz. Silver: 10 years x $25,000 / $10.25/oz. 300 ounces of gold and 25,000 of silver, in your possession right now, should cover you through a decade of hyperinflation and partial unemployment. Are you there yet?
25,000 oz silver. Wow, that IS a lot. I guess at that point it would just be sitting in closets, in the junk drawers, under the bed, or used as door stop.....

Sparky | 12-13-2008 06:34 PM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold Quote:
Originally Posted by unalga (Post 1464377) Lets see, I make that to be about $500,00 current dollars. I doubt too many of us here have that put aside.
I agree. But I was just answering the question. P.S. My answer also implies that "get through" means to weather hyperinflation without experiencing a significant drop in lifestyle or standard of living, and also assumes you don't have other financial assets to fall back on, like a hefty savings or 401K account, or extra real estate. If "get through" means "don't die", see Fullpower's answer in Post #3. P.P.S. I don't think we'll have hyperinflation, even by the "softest" definition I could find, which is at least a 25% average annual inflation for three straight years. This represents a 9x inflation compounded over a decade, which means the $500,000 current cash value would roughly be equivalent to the average U.S. household income in Year 10 of the hyperinflation. So I think my estimate is reasonable.

Lars Ragnarsson | 12-13-2008 08:40 PM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold I will defer to my hero, the Mogambo Guru: Quote:
"You're always yammering about gold and silver until I am sick of hearing it. So, tell us what 'type' of silver and gold to invest in; coin, numismatic, bullion, ETFs, mining stock, etc." I raise myself up on one elbow, and announce that according to the Patented Mogambo Investment Method (PMIM), what you want, first of all, is to get some pure gold and pure silver bullion, and take delivery. I recommend pure gold and pure silver so that you can maximize the "dollar value/cubic foot storage space" ratio, to be very scientific, and which has the added benefit of extending the length of time before your wife, or husband, starts whining about how their precious little closet is so full of gold and silver that now there is no space for their precious little shoes, and you have to politely remind them that they have too many damned shoes, and if I had feet as nasty as theirs, I'd wear big boots all the time anyway, and then for some reason that sets them off and blah blah blah. Partially for that reason, I also suggest that you get some mutual fund shares that specialize in precious metal stocks, which conveniently store as mere pieces of paper. Then, following this invaluable PMIM advice to the letter, the floorboards are eventually warped and the house is sagging on its foundation from the sheer tonnage of silver and gold that you have accumulated. And then, one day, you will trip over an errant 100-ounce bar of silver for the last damned time, and while putting bandages on various bleeding areas and asking your loving family members to kiss your boo-boo and make it better and they are laughing that they hope you die from an infection, you will suddenly swear that, from now on, you are buying only paper assets because nobody ever broke a leg banging into a piece of paper in the dark. Maybe slipping on one. But not banging into it! That is near the point where you stop accumulating bullion, and start accumulating more shares of mutual funds, and a little ETF action, and individual shares of companies involved with mining, refining, finding, exploring, or other stuff connected with gold and silver, and some related stuff like copper and other commodities, especially oil and whatever is the latest Congressional scheme-du-jour larded with tax incentives.

AMforPM | 12-13-2008 08:59 PM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold My preps and garden are for weathering the storm. I don't intend to stick out with no decline in lifestyle. My PM is to carry savings across the storm and replace the pensions we won't be getting in useful amounts.

Twisted Avatar | 12-13-2008 09:24 PM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold When you cant buy it anymore. T

Goldfinger007 | 12-13-2008 11:06 PM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold Forget asking anyone here or elsewhere. Ask yourself the question, "How much is enough - for me?" I asked myself that question a few years back. It's great to work through it and come up with the answer.

Argentsum | 12-13-2008 11:59 PM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold It depends on what you want gold and silver to do for you. Tell me what you want, and I'll tell you what you need. :ok:

Ralleia | 12-14-2008 12:50 AM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullpower (Post 1464365) that depends.... Is your refrigerator box properly covered up with plastic sheeting, with a few spare wooden pallets stacked up for a windbreak? you will probably make do with what you've got. several billion people currently live with less material wealth than ANYBODY posting here, and at least some of them will survive the economic decline.
Please clarify this comment about the refrigerator box? Oh heck. Now I get it. Beef--make sure that you get the garden seeds very soon--do not wait until the spring. Even in ordinary years I've heard that some seeds get sold out towards spring. Learn how to properly store those seeds--low humidity and low temperatures. A silica gel dessicant (which can be recharged in the oven) to bring the humidity down, and then low temps to put the seeds into statis. Also buy whatever books you will need on all-season gardening and food preservation. I recently got one book on seed-saving, one on root-cellaring, and one on four-season gardening. In the meantime I have three-year-old pepper plants alive in my south-facing windows (pepper plants--plus the rest of the nightshade family--indeterminate tomatoes, eggplants, okra) are actually frost-tender perennials. I bring the peppers in each fall and take them back outside in spring. Crisp, fresh peppers are wonderful in the dead of winter. I also bring a few small parsley plants inside in fall so we can have fresh parsley all winter. Many other vegetables are better preserved in some way. Tomatoes picked still green in fall before the frost will slowly ripen over the months giving fresh 'maters all through January and February if handled properly. Carrots, parsnips, squash and 'taters aren't even that demanding. You do need to get started though. There is a huge learning curve and you need to start chipping away at it, especially while you can still get help from people on the internet.

thrifty_bob | 12-14-2008 01:48 AM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky (Post 1464369) Gold: 10 years x $25,000 / $825/oz. Silver: 10 years x $25,000 / $10.25/oz. 300 ounces of gold and 25,000 of silver, in your possession right now, should cover you through a decade of hyperinflation and partial unemployment. Are you there yet?
I would rather rely on the value of gold than silver. Storing 2500 oz of silver would be a pain, too.

Sparky | 12-14-2008 03:49 PM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold Quote:
Originally Posted by thrifty_bob (Post 1464818) I would rather rely on the value of gold than silver. Storing 2500 oz of silver would be a pain, too.
Me too. I recommend a 70/30 gold/silver split. So in my example, that would be 425 oz gold and 15,000 silver. Still a lot of silver to store! As unalga said in an earlier post, probably not too many people here with that. So maybe start with this goal: 4 ounces gold, 150 oz silver. You'll be ahead of 99% of the crowd.

Farside | 12-15-2008 12:38 AM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold 425 oz Gold and 15,000 oz Silver would make you the local warlord wouldn't it? :wink:

Cassius | 12-15-2008 01:21 AM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold When you can swim through it like Scrooge McDuck

Lars Ragnarsson | 12-15-2008 02:32 AM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky (Post 1465366) Me too. I recommend a 70/30 gold/silver split. So in my example, that would be 425 oz gold and 15,000 silver. Still a lot of silver to store!
Hear that, sheeple? If you have no PMs (or need to replace some due to a tragic boating accident), you need to start NOW! Alright, lessee here. I don't have any expendable savings or investments, but assuming PM prices stay relatively stable, I can afford to buy one troy ounce of gold per month. That's 12 tr. oz. per year, so it would take me... 35 years and 5 months to accumulate 425 oz. Then it's time to start on the silver. Assuming an average price of just over $14/tr.oz, I could buy 70 oz/mo, which would take me just short of 18 years. Definitely not trying to bust your chops - just trying to put that into some perspective here. And you're right - about a Krugerrand and a tube of SAEs will put one ahead of 99% of the sheep. Back OT, I think the Zimbabwe change thread is a good reminder to not forget about fractional gold. And I remember someone posting some stories from the Weimar situation, where if you bought a loaf of bread with an ounce of gold, you didn't get any change - If you bought it with an ounce of silver, you didn't get any change either. Bottom line, have silver to barter for small stuff, gold to barter for bigger stuff. As unwieldy as it is, you can get silver for a lot less than gold, and it may work just as well.

Saul Mine | 12-15-2008 02:40 AM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold You need enough to cover up what you already have.

Twisted Avatar | 12-15-2008 05:39 AM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassius (Post 1466178) When you can swim through it like Scrooge McDuck
Sounds like a plan!!!:ok:

immanti | 12-15-2008 06:15 AM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold Wish I had that problem, but here's my answer: When it weighs so much that you can barely carry it as you try to run... Or swim? This is part of a description of what is known as Hernan Cortes' "Sad Night", one of the major setbacks he encountered during the conquest of the Aztec capital, Tenochtitlan. (my bold) Quote:
... "The carnage raged fearfully along the length of the cause- way. Its shadowy bulk presented a mass of sufficient distinct- ness for the enemy's missiles, which often prostrated their own countrymen in the blind fury of the tempest. Those nearest the dike, running their canoes alongside, with a force that shattered them to pieces, leaped on the land, and grap- pled with the Christians, until both came rolling down the causeway together. But the Aztec fell among his friends, while his antagonist was borne away in triumph to the sacri- fice. The struggle was long and deadly. The Mexicans were recognized by their white cotton tunics, which showed faint through the darkness. Above the combatants rose a wild and discordant clamor, in which horrid shouts of vengeance were mingled with groans of agony, with invocations of the saints and the Blessed Virgin, and with screams of women ; for there were several women, both natives and Spaniards, who had accompanied the Christian camp. Among these, one named Maria de Estrada is particularly noticed for the courage she displayed, battling with broadsword and target like the Btanchest of the warriors. "The opening in the causeway, meanwhile, was filled up with the wreck of matter which had been forced into it, ammunition- wagons, heavy guns, bales of rich stuff scattered over the waters, chests of solid ingots, 1 and bodies of men and horses, till over this dismal ruin a passage was gradually formed, by which those in the rear were enabled to clamber to the other side. Cortes found a place that was f ordable, and halting, with the water up to his saddle-girths, he endeavored to check the confusion, and lead his followers by a safer path to the opposite bank. But his voice was lost in the wild up- roar, and finally, hurrying on with the tide, he pressed forward with a few trusty cavaliers, but not before he had seen his favorite page, Juan de Salazar, struck down, a corpse, by his side. Here he found Sandoval and his companions, halting before the third and last breach, endeavoring to cheer on their followers to surmount it. But their resolution faltered. It was wide and deep, though not so closely beset by the enemy as the preceding ones. The cavaliers again set the example by plunging into the water. Horse and foot followed as they could, some swimming, others with dying grasp cling- ing to the manes and tails of the struggling animals. Those fared best, as the general had predicted, who travelled lightest; and many were the unfortunate wretches who, weighed down by the fatal gold which they loved so well, were buried with it in the salt floods of the lake. ..."
http://www.archive.org/stream/mexico...rrich_djvu.txt

Lt Dan | 12-15-2008 09:33 AM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold You'd be miles ahead of most folks, even some here, if you bought food, garden seed and paid off all your debt. Then worry about having some PMs. If you're not already out of the city, get out if you can. Find a place with water where you can grow at least some of your own food. If things really fall apart, people with tons of gold or silver will be trading it to you for any food you can spare. My wife kind of sets her foot down on things I tend to go overboard on. She gently reminds me, we can't eat guns and gold. AND, she is right. LOL! So, take care of business first, like being concerned about those things you eat, drink, wear, or the shelter you need.

Publico, Pro Se | 12-15-2008 10:57 AM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold "When do you have enough silver and gold?" When the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, the Queen of England, her cousin Queen of the Netherlands, and the rest the the power elite come hat in hand and ask to borrow some of your gold and silver. That's when you have enough gold and silver.

Sparky | 12-15-2008 11:22 AM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Ragnarsson (Post 1466275) Hear that, sheeple? If you have no PMs (or need to replace some due to a tragic boating accident), you need to start NOW! Alright, lessee here. I don't have any expendable savings or investments, but assuming PM prices stay relatively stable, I can afford to buy one troy ounce of gold per month. That's 12 tr. oz. per year, so it would take me... 35 years and 5 months to accumulate 425 oz. Then it's time to start on the silver. Assuming an average price of just over $14/tr.oz, I could buy 70 oz/mo, which would take me just short of 18 years. Definitely not trying to bust your chops - just trying to put that into some perspective here. And you're right - about a Krugerrand and a tube of SAEs will put one ahead of 99% of the sheep. Back OT, I think the Zimbabwe change thread is a good reminder to not forget about fractional gold. And I remember someone posting some stories from the Weimar situation, where if you bought a loaf of bread with an ounce of gold, you didn't get any change - If you bought it with an ounce of silver, you didn't get any change either. Bottom line, have silver to barter for small stuff, gold to barter for bigger stuff. As unwieldy as it is, you can get silver for a lot less than gold, and it may work just as well.
Lars, I definitely understand your point. But the numbers I offered were not a comment on what you should have, but rather what you would need to withstand a 10-year hyperinflation (which was the question posed in the OP), which I don't see in the cards. (I see high inflation not hyper inflation, e.g. averaging maybe 10%/year.) That's why I followed up with a more realistic objective, which is 1% of the worst-case hyperinflation scenario. With your suggested buying strategy, one could get there in less than a year.

Silver Shield | 12-15-2008 11:38 AM
Re: When do you have enough silver and gold When you need to take in consideration the payload capacity on your truck to move your stash...

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