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cosmolothrentas | 05-24-2008 05:28 PM
Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets I have a 50 lb. bag of rice in the freezer. I wanted to go no more than 7 days on the freeze, but I cannot locate oxygen absorber packets and mylar bags to purchase other than internet sites. Tomorrow will be 7 days, and I should have already purchased the bags and absorbers, but I didn't. So is it okay to leave the rice in freezer more than 7 days until I have these items? I have the storage buckets, but no one knows where to buy oxygen absorbers or mylar bags. I'm concerned over-freezing will mess with the quality of the rice, but don't want to transfer to buckets without the mylar and absorbers. Anyone know what max freeze time for rice is? No military surplus stores I have called carry the absorbers or the mylar bags either. Where is best place to order on the web? Thanks for any help!

silverblood | 05-24-2008 07:15 PM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets The sticky posts in this part of the forum (survival prep) have lists of suppliers. For mylar bags and oxygen absorbers, I heartily recommend Sorbent Systems. I just received a rather large $750 order that took less than a week from order time to delivery. Their web site isn't the best, though. I don't know that you really need to freeze rice or other grains before bagging them. I'd like more discussion on that, actually. I think you'll get condensation moisture in the grain when you remove it from the freezer, and that can't be good for it. If you seal it in mylar with oxygen absorbers, I can't see how any nasties could multiply anyhow.

Mone | 05-24-2008 07:55 PM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets I just mylar'ed 100 lbs of rice after 2 weeks in my pantry. No need to worry about freezing, IMO. Rice is not "new" at the store y'know...

mightyspuds | 05-24-2008 08:06 PM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets I had a 7 day total time result with these folks by sending a money order.Good prices. http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-b...e=WMSL-PP-MB5G

Weatherman | 05-24-2008 08:28 PM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblood (Post 1117247) I don't know that you really need to freeze rice or other grains before bagging them. I'd like more discussion on that, actually. I think you'll get condensation moisture in the grain when you remove it from the freezer, and that can't be good for it. If you seal it in mylar with oxygen absorbers, I can't see how any nasties could multiply anyhow.
I am not sure that freezing is necessary, but I wouldn't want to take the chance that the rice might have creepy crawlies when I am ready to cook it. :no_ma: To solve the moisture problem, I first used a funnel to pour the rice into 2 liter plastic jugs (left over from drinking too much soda!). With the tops on (but only loosely), I put the 2 liter jugs into the freezer. Several days later, I screwed the tops on tight just before removing them from the freezer. Moisture did condense as the jugs warmed up, but all of it was on the outside of the jugs. After they reached room temperature, I dried off the jugs and put them away for longer term storage. I didn't use oxygen absorbers because I plan to eat this rice within the next year. If I wanted to use oxygen absorbers, I could pour the defrosted rice into a larger container to seal with the absorbers inside.

silverblood | 05-24-2008 09:16 PM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets Weatherman, I've got my mylar, dessicants, and oxygen absorbers. I have 400 lb of rice sitting in my living room in 50 lb bags, just waiting for my pallet of buckets to show so I can seal them and bag them. What do you think of this idea? How about sealing the rice in mylar and bucket, with oxygen absorbers and dessicant packs, then putting the whole filled and sealed bucket in the freezer. Leave it for a week, then transfer to normal storage. I should think that would kill any nasties too, and without risk of moisture damage. Anyone else do it that way?

TechGuy | 05-24-2008 09:21 PM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblood (Post 1117326) Weatherman, I've got my mylar, dessicants, and oxygen absorbers. I have 400 lb of rice sitting in my living room in 50 lb bags, just waiting for my pallet of buckets to show so I can seal them and bag them. What do you think of this idea? How about sealing the rice in mylar and bucket, with oxygen absorbers and dessicant packs, then putting the whole filled and sealed bucket in the freezer. Leave it for a week, then transfer to normal storage. I should think that would kill any nasties too, and without risk of moisture damage. Anyone else do it that way?
The oxy absorbers will do away with any criters in the rice. As for dessicant packs in rice, they are a waste of money. I would question if the moisture would even reach the dessicant pack, after all dried rice is the oldest dessicant of them all. Just make sure when you thaw the rice that you make sure it is dry before processing, the process of it coming up to room temperature could attract moisture.

silverblood | 05-24-2008 09:27 PM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets Dessicant packs are cheap. You live in Houston area Tech Guy, where walking through the air can sometimes get you as wet as swimming at Galveston (slight exaggeration for emphasis). If moisture were to get to the rice, unlikely as that may be once sealed, I wonder what works best as a dessicant? The rice, or the clay or silica gel in the dessicant pack? But anyway, I'm also packing 1400 lb of wheat, so I figure I still need dessicant packs.

Weatherman | 05-24-2008 10:05 PM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblood (Post 1117326) What do you think of this idea? How about sealing the rice in mylar and bucket, with oxygen absorbers and dessicant packs, then putting the whole filled and sealed bucket in the freezer. Leave it for a week, then transfer to normal storage.
The potential problem with freezing a sealed bucket, or any sealed container, is that the air inside will contract at the low temperature. That contraction could cause enough stress to crack the container. You might want to consider only sealing the mylar bag at first, and then putting it into the freezer in the bucket, but with the lid only loose over the bucket. Leave the lid on loose when you remove the bucket from the freezer and allow it to warm to room temperature. Moisture will condense on the outside of the bucket, but there should be no moisture on the inside since the cold and very dry air from the freezer will escape from the warming bucket through the loosely placed lid, and no warm moist room air should enter the bucket. After the bucket has warmed to room temperature, then you can treat it with additional oxygen absorbers and seal it for storage. I haven't tried that, but I think it would work OK. DYODD :D

cosmolothrentas | 05-25-2008 12:01 AM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets So am I ok to take out the 50 lb. bag of rice from the freezer and let it sit in a cool dry place for maybe 5-7 days until my supplies arrive? My worry about leaving it in the freezer more than 7 days (tomorrow is 7 days) is ice crystals ruining the rice when thawed. I just want to kill critter eggs by freezing. Would I defeat my purpose if I took it out and let it sit for 5-7 days before sealing in mylar? I am thinking of 1 gallon mylar bags, btw, so I would have a few sealed mylar bags per bucket.....makes more sense than one mylar bag that would get opened and exposing 25 lbs. of the rice....why not break it up more, so when a lid comes off, you can grab one smaller mylar-sealed pack at a time? frugalsquirrels sells the one gallon bags. And they have the absorbers. I will order unless someone can give me a better plan. Thanks!

silverblood | 05-25-2008 12:42 AM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmolothrentas (Post 1117440) So am I ok to take out the 50 lb. bag of rice from the freezer and let it sit in a cool dry place for maybe 5-7 days until my supplies arrive? My worry about leaving it in the freezer more than 7 days (tomorrow is 7 days) is ice crystals ruining the rice when thawed. I just want to kill critter eggs by freezing. Would I defeat my purpose if I took it out and let it sit for 5-7 days before sealing in mylar?
No voice of experience here; just a thought... if the cold really kills the critter eggs, they will remain dead when you take the rice out of the freezer and let it sit until you bag it. Just don't leave the bag where more bugs are likely to crawl in. Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmolothrentas (Post 1117440) I am thinking of 1 gallon mylar bags, btw, so I would have a few sealed mylar bags per bucket.....makes more sense than one mylar bag that would get opened and exposing 25 lbs. of the rice....why not break it up more, so when a lid comes off, you can grab one smaller mylar-sealed pack at a time? frugalsquirrels sells the one gallon bags. And they have the absorbers. I will order unless someone can give me a better plan. Thanks!
I'm thinking the same way about some things that I don't use a lot. For example, I use very little sugar, rolled oats, certain varieties of beans, whole dried corn, barley, etc. So for those I also plan to use smaller bags, and in some cases canning jars. I'm not going to do that with rice though. I've bought 50 lb bags for years, and eat it in a few months, so it has no time to spoil. I plan to bag the rice in full size 6 gallon bags and buckets.

Weatherman | 05-25-2008 12:51 AM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmolothrentas (Post 1117440) So am I ok to take out the 50 lb. bag of rice from the freezer and let it sit in a cool dry place for maybe 5-7 days until my supplies arrive? My worry about leaving it in the freezer more than 7 days (tomorrow is 7 days) is ice crystals ruining the rice when thawed. I just want to kill critter eggs by freezing. Would I defeat my purpose if I took it out and let it sit for 5-7 days before sealing in mylar?
It looks like you may have a bad case of premature efreezeulation. :D Putting a typical 50 pound bag into the freezer results in a significant potential condensation problem when removing it. The normal rice bags are neither air tight nor water resistant, so they will offer little protection from room air condensation after you take them out of the freezer. My guess is that it would be much better to prepare the long term storage before putting them through a freeze cycle, so that storage medium can then protect the rice from condensation. In your case, you might want to try putting the 50 pound bag into an air and moisture resistant covering while it is still in the freezer. One way to do that would be to slide a large plastic bag (like dry cleaning would come in, but with the "hanger hole" taped shut) over the 50 pound bag while it is still in the freezer. An alternative might be to put the bottom of the 50 pound bag into a good size shopping plastic bag, and then to slide another shopping bag over the top so the fifty pound bag is completely covered by plastic. Then you can remove (carefully because it will be slippery! :wink:) the plastic covered 50 pound bag from the freezer and set it on the floor. Then you can quickly apply tape to any openings in the plastic covering to minimize the amount of moist room air that could make contact with the 50 pound bag. As the bag warms to room temperature, the condensation should be on the outside. Hopefully, the well taped and almost air tight plastic covering will also prevent new bugs from entering the 50 pound bag while you wait for your long term storage supplies. I haven't tried this either, so once again DYODD. :wink:

cosmolothrentas | 05-25-2008 10:05 AM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherman (Post 1117482) It looks like you may have a bad case of premature efreezeulation. :D In your case, you might want to try putting the 50 pound bag into an air and moisture resistant covering while it is still in the freezer.
Premature, yeah. Shoulda had my mylar on hand. However, it caused me to think it thru a little more, and I like the idea of buying the one gallon bags and breaking up my supply. I certainly prefer that to a mylar that fits the whole bucket. I weighed your idea and also the alternate suggestion to take it out of the freezer and put it in a cool dry place till my mylar arrives. The eggs are killed I would think after 7 days. That problem being hopefully eliminated, there is now the question of any freezer condensation. I lean towards a thaw out before sealing, now that I have considered: why do I want to go strait from freezer into mylar and bucket and then seal it IF there is ANY freeze condensation? You are sealing condensation into the supply! I think a thaw in a cool dry area and then transfer is better than strait from freezer. :questionm I might be wrong.

silverblood | 05-25-2008 01:34 PM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets Most of the condensation upon removing an item from the freezer will occur on the outside of the package where it is exposed to warm, moist air. However, most large sacks of grain are not well sealed (on purpose, to avoid conditions favoring growth of molds). Typically they allow oxygen to freely flow through a permeable material (permeable woven plastic or burlap). Thus the suggestion from Weatherman to lay out some plastic sheeting, pull the bag from the freezer, quickly wrap and seal it with tape in the plastic sheeting, and stick it back in the freezer. Then when you take it out prior to bagging, it should remain dry on the inside. Moisture will condense on the outside. When you take it from the freezer, leave it wrapped until all of the condensed moisture air-dries and the outer plastic sheeting is completely dry. Ideally, wait long enough for the contents of the bag to reach room temperature before removing from plastic. Maybe a day. I store all of my film in the freezer wrapped in plastic for this reason. I have never had condensation on the inside of a box of sheet film or a roll of film. If I had, the film would have stuck together and would have been spoiled. So I think the idea is sound. However, my film is always well-sealed before it goes in the freezer the first time, and that was not the case with your rice. Probably it will be fine. But consider all this theoretical. DYODD, as Weatherman said.

Weatherman | 05-25-2008 07:26 PM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblood (Post 1117851) Most of the condensation upon removing an item from the freezer will occur on the outside of the package where it is exposed to warm, moist air. However, most large sacks of grain are not well sealed (on purpose, to avoid conditions favoring growth of molds). Typically they allow oxygen to freely flow through a permeable material (permeable woven plastic or burlap). Thus the suggestion from Weatherman to lay out some plastic sheeting, pull the bag from the freezer, quickly wrap and seal it with tape in the plastic sheeting, and stick it back in the freezer. Then when you take it out prior to bagging, it should remain dry on the inside. Moisture will condense on the outside. When you take it from the freezer, leave it wrapped until all of the condensed moisture air-dries and the outer plastic sheeting is completely dry. Ideally, wait long enough for the contents of the bag to reach room temperature before removing from plastic. Maybe a day.
Excellent summary. :applause_ Putting the rice into the freezer without moisture protection caused no damage, and actually helped to dry the rice by freeze drying. The important concept is to keep the food away from warm moist room air after removing the rice from the freezer, so the moisture in the air will not condense into the rice. My suggestion was to put a plastic bag (or two) over the rice while it is still in the freezer, so it will still be surrounded by the dry air in the freezer. I understand that it is difficult to manipulate a 50 pound bag inside the freezer, but that is why it would have been better to put the rice into a plastic bag(s) before starting the freeze process. Once the rice is protected by plastic bags (which are sealed enough to minimize the amount of warm moist room air that could contact the rice), then the rice can be taken out of the freezer (to slowly warm up to room temperature) at any convenient time. Good luck! :wink:

cosmolothrentas | 05-25-2008 11:29 PM
Re: Freezing rice and oxygen absorber packets Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherman (Post 1118202) Excellent summary. :applause_ Putting the rice into the freezer without moisture protection caused no damage, and actually helped to dry the rice by freeze drying. The important concept is to keep the food away from warm moist room air after removing the rice from the freezer, so the moisture in the air will not condense into the rice. My suggestion was to put a plastic bag (or two) over the rice while it is still in the freezer, so it will still be surrounded by the dry air in the freezer. I understand that it is difficult to manipulate a 50 pound bag inside the freezer, but that is why it would have been better to put the rice into a plastic bag(s) before starting the freeze process. Once the rice is protected by plastic bags (which are sealed enough to minimize the amount of warm moist room air that could contact the rice), then the rice can be taken out of the freezer (to slowly warm up to room temperature) at any convenient time. Good luck! :wink:
Okay, thanks for the help. I will use some slats and a plastic sheet and roll it as best I can without getting it out of the freezer and seal the plastic with tape. I guess I should wipe the bag surface to wipe any condensate off as I roll it in the plastic sheeting. Hopefully my mylar and absorbers will be here by end of coming week. Thanks all for suggestions and taking your time to help!

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