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- - SHTF poopin (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=126484)

silverJeep | 04-12-2007 10:45 AM
SHTF poopin Has anyone given much thought to post-SHTF septic systems? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> Do you have an outhouse set up? <o:p></o:p> Use the septic tank as long as you can? <o:p></o:p> Stand alone water treatment plant? <o:p></o:p> Everyone talks about having food and water (and I know you HAVE to have those), but I think knowing where you�re gonna take a dump for the next few months (and/or longer) is a valid concern too. <o:p></o:p> Got to thinking about it the other day as to what we would do. We have a septic tank, and are on city water (have access to other water). Guess we can use the toilets and carry in water to fill the bowl tank. (for a while). Or at least save that option for rainy days, cold days and late at night. <o:p></o:p> Thought about setting up an outhouse now. We live in the country, so having an outhouse off in the distance on your land can give it character. (or so I�m told). <o:p></o:p> Maybe a stupid question� Can you reuse human waste? For fertilizer, or anything? I sure don�t want to fool with handling all that, but there�s a lot of things I probably won�t want to do (but have to) post SHTF. <o:p></o:p> SilverJeep

Anty Ep | 04-12-2007 10:58 AM
Re: SHTF poopin if you are talking SHTF, like you lose your electricity for a couple weeks and you don't have a manual handpump or generator hookup, big deal you lose water flow and have to squat in the bush. worser problem is potable water for drinking! if you are talking TEOWAWKI, then yes human waste gets recycled into compost for gardening if there is not sufficient manure. you can probably look up how to do that correctly on the net somewhere. the big issue would be spreading parasites etc-- how to avoid that.

jerry | 04-12-2007 11:06 AM
Re: SHTF poopin You have been seriously scammed. Shit is your friend and not a toxic product that your body produces. When I go outside and smell the "dairy air" I know that I am ingesting cowshit directly into my system. Anything you can smell you are introducing into your body directly and by-passing the normal food route (mouth, stomach, etc.). This is why drugs snorted are so quick to affect the body and produce the expected "rush." Years ago chamber pots were the rule in houses. These pots collected the human waste produced during the night by the inhabitants of the house. These products were termed "night soil." A word is a word is only a word and cannot be good or bad except during the interpretation. The concept of night soil is powerful and for most much more pleasing than shit. However you term it, the resulting product is an extremely high quality soil addition and is seen by those who wish to see things for what they really are as a valuable input. Urine is at least as important but its many uses are different.

volzka | 04-12-2007 11:34 AM
Re: SHTF poopin Hey- "Night soil" has been used for millenia in China as fertilizer. That's why it is a VERY good idea to thoroughly wash and cook all foods where it has been used as as fertilizer. The oosites of many common parasites like roundworms can live quite a long time (not sure exactly how long). Giardia is a particularly nasty one (from experience) that has a cycle that centers around rodent (including racoons and beavers) squat and if transmitted to humans who then dump their contaminated feces where the little buggers can get into otherwise clean water humans too can advance the problem. ie. "beaver fever". Composting toilets may be ok if temps get high enough to destroy the transmission vectors and stop the loop. I admit it is a relatively small problem here, but I can't help but believe it to be a good idea to keep it that way. IMHO, a good SHTF (pun intended) solution involves the use of a 5-gal bucket, a bunch of free plastic grocery bags that fit inside, and a roaring hot fire. There is nothing more disgusting than that EEEWWWwww feeling you get when you step a pile of fresh predator (humans are predators) droppings.:rose: Volzka

TheSimpleton | 04-12-2007 01:44 PM
Re: SHTF poopin I'm not expert on septic tanks, but aren't these pumped like every 10 years? I'm not sure what the effect would be to remove the greywater from that system, but in dryer climes could be important to irrigate with this nutrient-rich source. If you're talking outhouses, you need to be introduced to lime. Lime is very needed for this, but lime can do so many other things people have forgotten--mortar, whitewash, etc. I don't know the chemical process, I believe it changes the pH and rapidly increases breakdown time--thus the use on dead bodies. Lime stores a looong time, is energy-intensive, and multi-useful. Consider it. If you have space, I don't see how a shovel and a chamber pot wouldn't work fine for years. Outhouses smell because of the concentration and need to be shoveled out or moved. A cat-hole doesn't. TS

REV127 | 04-12-2007 06:37 PM
Re: SHTF poopin Toilets for SHTF? We don't need a toilet! The pile of clothes in the hallway has worked fine for us for years and it will continue to work! ... I don't know whose clothes that is but somebody ain't wearing that again, I can tell you that. Otherwise yeah, I have a complex septic system with a mound and lift station that was in a poor state of repair because of the idiots who owned my land before me. As a result I've had to do a lot of studying and I came across something very interesting. It would seem that as long as your tank is sized to your needs, your dainfield and pumps are working, that you'll pretty much never have to get your tank pumped as the natural bacterial action will reduce almost all the solid matter to gas an liquid given enough time. You have to be careful what you put in your septic tank though, you don't want to introduce large quantities of anything that will kill your beneficial bacteria. Fortunately your own butt is a virtual bacteria factory and will keep your tank well supplied with the right critters. I've read posts from a number of people who last pumped their tank 20 or 30 years ago. FWIW, Five Acres and Independence says the same thing, that a properly managed septic tank shouldn't have to be pumped out for the life of its user. I need to redo my septic system when I build my new place because the idiots decided to build it nestled ammong some large trees. Some time between now and then I will introduce a manual pump for the lift. If I had to I'd feel better about using my own poop as manure than a stranger's. Who knows what horrible disease the crackhead down the street is carrying.

keehah | 04-12-2007 06:51 PM
Re: SHTF poopin Quote:
We don't need a toilet! The pile of clothes in the hallway has worked fine for us for years...
ATHF Rocks! Humanure Toilet Condensed Instruction Manual http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/dow...ion_manual.pdf

Tn...Andy | 04-12-2007 07:05 PM
Re: SHTF poopin Got it covered. Water in is gravity flow spring.....been working fine for the last 25 years, I imagine it will keep right on doing so. But I also had a well drilled last year as a backup.....you can't be too system redundent. The pump I'm going to put in it will be a solar powered DC pump that will pump up to a set of storage tanks to be installed, like the deal I currently have for my spring....I plan to install two 2,000 gallon tanks and run a 3" line down from them...mainly for fire suppression should the need arise ( we live in the woods ) . That takes care of water in. Water/waste out is the septic system we've been using for the last 25 years. I finally had it pumped a few years ago, since I'd never done it....but I don't think it needed it then, quite honestly......so I'd say it's good for another 25 at least......and I have a backhoe and the ability to put in another should a problem arise with this one since I put in the last one. That takes care of water out. :D For the temporary heating of water while in use, I have a propane water heater with years and years worth of propane stored for it....and a wood fired stainless steel back up to that.

TheSimpleton | 04-13-2007 11:45 AM
Re: SHTF poopin Might bw a good place to add the old cesspool plan: Dig hole Line with rocks like fieldstone Cap with concrete slab and soil Add waste Cesspools can also last a lifetime with no leachfield, etc. Sometimes people add a tree or two. TS You don't need to make things complicated, but the government does.

Nuggethunter | 04-13-2007 11:52 AM
Re: SHTF poopin Cant go wrong with these, we take them backpacking even, so you can be comfortable under the pines, and in the rv, so we dont have to go thru the hassle of using a dump staion and I dont want to be packing ---- if ya know what I mean, just take the bag , tie a knot and toss it. and at home the well went down so I used it, no problemo. Must have item. <!-- ************* BEGIN MAIN BODY TABLE (left nav, body, right nav) *********** --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=750 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=152 background=/images/v2/leftNavBackground.gif><!-- ************* LEFT NAV - BEGIN **************** --> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=152 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/ima...t-shopping.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/images/spacer.gif</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Ammunition Archery [Camping] Backpacks Camp Furniture Communications Cookware Cutlery Food Heaters Lighting Navigation Personal Care Photography Sleeping Bags Stoves Survival Tents Tools Walking Sticks Water Treatment Hunting Marine Shooting Paintball Gifts Shop By Brand Our eBay Auctions Free Catalog! <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/ima...nLeft-help.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/images/spacer.gif</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>FAQ Contact Us Ask An Expert <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/ima...-myAccount.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/images/spacer.gif</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Account Settings My Shopping Cart Order Status <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/ima...ft-aboutUs.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/images/spacer.gif</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Affiliate Program Our Story Our Promise <!-- ************* LEFT NAV - END **************** --></TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=15>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/images/spacer.gif</TD><TD vAlign=top><!-- ************* BODY CELL - BEGIN **************** --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><!--***************** BREADCRUMBS ***********************-->Home > Camping > Camp Furniture > Toilets <!--**************** END BREADCRUMBS ********************--></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=productTitleBanner vAlign=top>PORTABLE TOILET</TD><TD class=productTitleBanner vAlign=top align=right>by TEXSPORT</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=middle width="55%">http://goldismoney.info/images/unavailable.gif http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/ima...arge-image.gif Image may not fully represent product. Please see description and features for more info. </TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width="45%"> OUR PRICE $11.25 <FORM name=addToCartForm action=http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/store/purchase/updateShoppingCart.asp method=get cM1="1"><INPUT type=hidden value=316454 name=productIDList cM1="1" cM3 cM2="0"> Quantity: <INPUT size=3 value=1 name=316454 cM1="1" cM3 cM2="1"> <INPUT type=image alt="add to cart" src="http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/images/v2/addToCart.gif" border=0> </FORM> Availability: IN STOCK </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <SCRIPT type=text/javascript>function showTab(tabName) { var turnOff = turnOffTabs(); if(tabName == "productTabDescription") { document.getElementById("productTabDescription").c lassName = "productTabOn"; document.getElementById("productTabDescriptionGrap hic").src = "/images/v2/description-tab-on.gif"; } else if(tabName == "productTabFeatures") { document.getElementById("productTabFeatures").clas sName = "productTabOn"; document.getElementById("productTabFeaturesGraphic ").src = "/images/v2/features-tab-on.gif"; } else if(tabName == "productTabShipping") { document.getElementById("productTabShipping").clas sName = "productTabOn"; document.getElementById("productTabShippingGraphic ").src = "/images/v2/shipping-tab-on.gif"; } else if(tabName == "productTabReturnPolicy") { document.getElementById("productTabReturnPolicy"). className = "productTabOn"; document.getElementById("productTabReturnPolicyGra phic").src = "/images/v2/return-policy-tab-on.gif"; } else { document.getElementById("productTabDescription").c lassName = "productTabOn"; document.getElementById("productTabDescriptionGrap hic").src = "/images/v2/description-tab-on.gif"; } return false;}function turnOffTabs() { document.getElementById("productTabDescription").c lassName = "productTabOff"; document.getElementById("productTabDescriptionGrap hic").src = "/images/v2/description-tab.gif"; document.getElementById("productTabFeatures").clas sName = "productTabOff"; document.getElementById("productTabFeaturesGraphic ").src = "/images/v2/features-tab.gif"; document.getElementById("productTabShipping").clas sName = "productTabOff"; document.getElementById("productTabShippingGraphic ").src = "/images/v2/shipping-tab.gif"; document.getElementById("productTabReturnPolicy"). className = "productTabOff"; document.getElementById("productTabReturnPolicyGra phic").src = "/images/v2/return-policy-tab.gif"; return false;}</SCRIPT><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/ima...ion-tab-on.gif</TD><TD>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/ima...atures-tab.gif</TD><TD>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/ima...ipping-tab.gif</TD><TD>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/ima...policy-tab.gif</TD><TD width="99%"> </TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#386b39 colSpan=5 height=5>http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/images/spacer.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=5>DESCRIPTION PORTABLE TOILET Heavy-duty tubular steel legs. Durable white plastic seat. Removable plastic ring secures plastic toilet bags. Folds flat. Wt: 4 lbs. Includes 6 toilet bags. 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silverJeep | 04-13-2007 12:41 PM
Re: SHTF poopin Thanks for the replies guys! Nugget - I've thought about getting one of those too, and i think it would get us through a weekend or even a week. But with a family of 5, long term would be an issue. Was gonna ask about the septic tank. Our house was built in 2001 and I have no clue as to how often they need to be pumped out. From what I'm hearing here, we should be good for many years to come, just need to get my incoming water system straight. Thanks again, SilverJeep

Nuggethunter | 04-13-2007 02:20 PM
Re: SHTF poopin Septic tank should be pumped every 2 years for a family of 4. They charge 175 to pump it out. And $125 more if they have to dig down to the dome. They come out with a hitch mounted baby backhoe and trench to the lid. Money well spent. When they pump yours be out there and you will see how high the solids are. Then judge next cleanout. The septic guy told me rid ex and all that over priced enzyme septic treatment is BS, He said to add the bakers yeast packets , once a month.

Tn...Andy | 04-13-2007 02:53 PM
Re: SHTF poopin Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggethunter (Post 571660) Septic tank should be pumped every 2 years for a family of 4.
Nope.....not if you have a decent sized tank. Silver Jeep most likely has a 1000 gallon tank based on the number of bedrms in his house ( that's how the health dept here specs the tank size ).....and it shouldn't need pumping for 10 years minimum UNLESS he has garbage grinder on the sink....those put a LOT of solids down the line, and should be avoided on a septic system. Based on the first pumping at 10 years, he can go from there.

Nuggethunter | 04-13-2007 03:55 PM
Re: SHTF poopin Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 571700) Nope.....not if you have a decent sized tank. Silver Jeep most likely has a 1000 gallon tank based on the number of bedrms in his house ( that's how the health dept here specs the tank size ).....and it shouldn't need pumping for 10 years minimum UNLESS he has garbage grinder on the sink....those put a LOT of solids down the line, and should be avoided on a septic system. Based on the first pumping at 10 years, he can go from there.
10 years! Andy, I dont believe it. Thats a long time Man.... Even without a garbage disposal. I could be wrong, but I wouldnt chance it, Once those solids start goin down the leach line, your done. I sure hope Im wrong, but for 125frns check it out. BTway Andy , you'd fit right in in Alaska, ya get there it feels like a weight is off your shoulders......

mtnman | 04-13-2007 05:38 PM
Re: SHTF poopin It all depends on what you put in your septic. If you use lots of chemical cleaners it will kill the bacteria in your septic. If you washer empties into your septic your killing your septic. When you kill the bacteria in your septic the solids don�t break down and you�ll have to pump it. The only thing that needs to go in the septic is human waste. If that�s all you put in there you will NEVER have to pump it. I�ve had septic systems for 50 years. The one at my parents� house (where I grew up) has never been pumped! Sit a trash can next to the toilet for TP. Don�t use bleach to clean the toilet, only use a small amount of dishwashing detergent for toilet cleaning, run your gray water (Dish water, washing machine water and bath water) into a cess pool and you�ll never have a problem.

Tn...Andy | 04-13-2007 05:41 PM
Re: SHTF poopin I put a 1000 gallon tank in when I built this house in 1984. Had it pumped the first time in 2004.......and I don't think it needed it then.....there was a small amount of solids in the bottom....maybe 1/4 of the tank or less. I only had it pumped because it had been 20 years and I thought "well, maybe I should". I'll probably never do it again. Edited after Mtnman's post: We feed the washing machine in ours, along with the toilet paper,etc. Wife uses whatever toilet cleaner she buys....that stuff with the duck neck squirter. Only thing we don't have is a garbage grinder in the sink.

Nuggethunter | 04-13-2007 06:56 PM
Re: SHTF poopin Im amazed; you learn something every day Andy.... Well the septic people told me every 2 years! :deal: so much for them huh? ; volumne discount ? does it ever end? Im so burnt out on frns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:call: Spend my life being an frn detective; homesteading amish style for me----IM OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH , THE UNDERGROUND STORAGE DEAL IS A MUST i THINK.................

volzka | 04-14-2007 10:06 AM
Re: SHTF poopin Hey- From what I've seen, Andy has it nailed. Had mine pumped about five years ago. There was maybe a foot of solids in the bottom after at least fifteen years. The two year dealy must be a cash cow for the pumpers. Nuggethunter also nailed another subject, IMHO. I've been shakin' my fist and screaming at the g$$$amned geese for a week now. Ain't a one of them that will stop and pick me up.:bawling: Volzka

elroy | 04-18-2007 11:11 PM
Re: SHTF poopin Bought my home in 1979 and the tank has been pumped once. I had a pipe between the tank and finger system that collapsed so the tank filled up because nothing could get out. I dug the pipe up and replaced it, I've never had another problem. We've re-routed the washer to a pit but everything else goes in the tank.

Halophyte | 04-18-2007 11:19 PM
Re: SHTF poopin Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy (Post 577559) Bought my home in 1979 and the tank has been pumped once. I had a pipe between the tank and finger system that collapsed so the tank filled up because nothing could get out. I dug the pipe up and replaced it, I've never had another problem. We've re-routed the washer to a pit but everything else goes in the tank.
Must be nice to have soil that perks . h

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