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goldsilverman | 02-05-2008 02:08 AM
THE CROSSCUT SAW Quote:
The two-man crosscut saw was known by the Romans ... but not till the middle of the 15th century did the tool come into fairly common use in Europe. Records exist of the crosscut being used for cutting logs in the United States between 1635 and 1681. About 1880, Pennsylvania lumbermen began felling trees with the crosscut. Before that time all trees had been ax-felled and crosscut into lengths. Until the 15th century, the two-man crosscut saw was of a plain tooth pattem. The M tooth pattern seems to have been developed and used in south Germany in the 1400's. Even as late as 1900 most of the European crosscuts still used the plain tooth pattern with a few exceptions of M tooth being used. Not until fairly recently was the saw with a raker or "drag" developed. In the case of plain , M, and Great American tooth patterns, each tooth both cuts the wood and clears out the shavings. In the case of the champion, lance, and perforated-lance tooth, however, cutter teeth cut the wood fibers and the rakers remove the scored wood from the newlysawn cut. By the time crosscut use was at its peak, a large number of tooth patterns had been developed, each presumably suited to a particular set of conditions. Crosscut saws can be divided into two types: two-man and one-man. Generally speaking, a one-man saw is shorter, but its defining characteristic is that it is asymmetric. Both types of crosscuts can be used by either one or two persons. One-man crosscuts have been made in lengths from 3 to 6 feet. Two-man saws were produced in lengths from 4 to 12 feet for the Pacific Northwest, and 16 feet for the California redwoods. If a longer saw was needed, two shorter blades were sometimes brazed together. There are two basic saw patterns for the two-man saw: the felling type for felling trees and the bucking pattern for cutting up trees once they are on the ground. Each has characteristics suited to its use. The felling saw has a concave back and is relatively light and flexible. It is light so that less effort is needed to move it back and forth when felling a tree. It is flexible to conform to the are a sawyer's arms take when sawing ... and it is narrow tooth-to-back, enabling the sawyer to place a wedge in the cut behind the saw sooner than with a wide saw. The bucking saw has a straight back. It is much thicker tooth-to-back than the felling saw, so it is heavier and stiffer. A bucking saw traditionally is run by one person, and its stiffness helps prevent buckling on the push stroke. The more weight put on a saw, the faster it will cut, so the weight of a bucking saw is an asset. The teeth of nearly all crosscut saws lie on the arc of a circle. The result is an easier and faster cutting tool than a straight saw. A circular contour is much simpler to maintain than a curve of any other shape. There are three ways that the sides of a saw are finished (ground) when manufactured ... each affects the thickness of the saw in a particular way. These are: flat, straight taper, and crescent taper . A flat -ground saw is one whose thickness is the same everywhere. A taperground blade is thicker on its toothed edge than on its back edge, and has an advantage over a flat-ground implement: It is not as likely to bind in a cut, especially if the kerf is closing behind the saw (as will happen, if the wood being cut is under compression). Also, a taperground blade requires less set than one that is flat-ground. The difference between the straight taper and crescent taper is that the lines of equi-thickness for the former are straight and those for the latter are concentric to the circle of the saw. This means that the teeth of the crescent-taperground crosscut are all the same thickness, whereas the teeth of the straight-taper-ground saw are thicker toward the center of the blade. The uniform tooth thickness of the crescent-taper-ground saw is an obvious advantage over the varying tooth thickness of the straight- tape- ground type. Therefore, the best saws are crescent taper ground. These are indicated by the trademarks "Crescent Ground", "Precision Ground", "Segment Ground", and "Arc Ground". CHOOSING AND USING A SAW Felling saws have been used by trail crews instead of bucking saws for several reasons. They are light and flex easily to conform to a backpack or horse pack. Although they are generally used by two persons, a felling saw�if it is filed properly and the cut is close to vertical�can be run easily by one person. However, with cuts much off the vertical, the free end will droop on the push stroke and oscillate violently on the return stroke. Saws made today have solid ends (the teeth don't run to the ends of the blade). These saws are adequate for bucking and felling where it is not necessary to use the ends. But for finishing some cuts �for example, when a log is lying in the dirt�you need a saw with teeth right to the ends. If you have a choice, choose the toothed-ended saw. An effective saw guard can be made of a section of old firehose, preferably rubber-lined, that has been slit along its length. A guard often removed can be made to fasten with Velcro to speed removal and replacement. To carry a saw, lay it flat across your shoulder with the teeth guarded and facing away from your neck. Remove the rear handle so it won't catch on brush or limbs. In a group, you should make sure to walk last in line. When transported, saws should have better protection than firehose. An accidental blow with a tool or against the side of a vehicle will cause the teeth to cut through the hose and be dulled. One effective way to transport saws is between two pieces of plywood that are firmly bolted together. The first step in cutting a log is swamping. Remove any brush, plants, etc. that may interfere with the work. Something as seemingly insignificant as a blade of grass between the teeth and kerf can jam a saw. Check the lay of the log and decide what will happen when the log is cut. Will it roll? Will it jump? Will it drop? Plan your cuts accordingly. Sometimes it will only be safe to have one person sawing. This is often the case if the log is on a slope. Saw from the uphill side. Before making the cut, remove the bark where the saw will pass. Bark often has dirt in it and some say bark itself dulls a saw rapidly. When cutting green wood, sap may stick to the blade and gradually build up in thickness until the saw will bind in the kerf. To prevent this, the saw blade should be lubricated with kerosene occasionally or when the blade begins to get sticky. Kerosene for this purpose can be kept in a small flat hip flask that can be carried comfortably in the back pocket. If the cork in the neck of the flask has two to three small grooves cut down its length, the blade can be covered evenly with a thin film of kerosene by whisking the corked bottle along the saw. Make sure the saw doesn't get into dirt or rocks at the end of a cut. Make the last few strokes with the end of the blade ... then if it does drag in the dirt, only the end teeth are dulled. Put a piece of bark under the log if possible when there's a chance of running the saw into the dirt. If necessary, dig the log free where the blade will pass. The object is to keep the teeth sharp as long as possible. A leaning tree will have grown so the fibers are quite compressed on one side. In this case it may be possible to sink the teeth in only a couple of inches before they bind. If this happens, grab an ax and start chopping. Saw a few inches and chop out the severed wood. Often a log will be lying in such a way that the kerf begins to close on the saw before a cut is completed. This occurs when the wood is under compression, as when a log is supported at the ends and the cut is in the middle. In some cases, the cut can be continued by driving a wedge into the kerf behind the saw. Where this won't work (if there is not room to drive a wedge or the wedge won't open the kerf), the log must be cut from the bottom, or "underbucked". Generally, underbucking should be done by one man with one handle removed from the saw. This reduces the chance of a saw's being kinked or broken if the log carries it to the ground. To underbuck, plant an ax in the log so you can use the handle as a support for the back of the saw. Out a small notch in the handle for a guide. Some oil in the notch will let the saw run easily and reduce ax handle wear. The spring of the handle will hold the saw in the cut with uniform pressure. A log or rock can be placed under one side of the cut to hold the log up so it will be less likely to carry the saw to the ground as the cut is completed. HANDLE POSITIONS How a saw cuts is determined to some extent by how the handle is attached to the blade and held. Assume the saw is making a vertical cut with the teeth pointing down. With the handle pointing up, a pull stroke will be easier the farther toward the end of the handle the hands are held. The push stroke will be harder. On the other hand, with the handle pointing down, the opposite occurs. In saws that have two holes on each end (generally bucking saws), changing the handle position from the lower to the upper hole will have exactly the same effect as moving the hands several inches up the saw handle. The difference in fore necessary to make a saw stroke under different bandle positions is due to the different downward forces applied to the saw. For example, with the handle up, a push stroke increases the downward force on the saw, causing the teeth to sink deeper into the wood. (This results in a deeper cut that requires more energy.) On the pull stroke a slight upward force is applied to the saw. STORING SAWS A saw should be stored straight. Leaving it bent (around a firepack) will bow the blade. A stored saw should be well oiled with a heavy oil. Grease dissolved in gasoline to a consistency that can be painted on also works well. FINDING SAWS AND TOOLS Until the advent of the chain saw, crosscut saws were a common item and manufactured by several large companies. Now, I know of only one company manufacturing crosscut saws in the United States: Jemco Tool Corp., Saw Division, 60 State St., Seneca Falls, N.Y. 13148. The company distributes a catalog of its saws to dealers and will direct individual buyers to the nearest supplier. Other sources of saws and tools are secondhand stores, the odd hardware store that still has some in stock, and surplus disposed of by different government agencies. A tool kit for crosscut saw reconditioning is available from the Century Tool Co., Inc., Ginkgo Industrial Park, 102 Richard Rd., Ivyland, Pa. 18974. The kit contains a jointer/raker tool gage, a spider (set gage) 3-1/2 inches by 2 inches, a setting stake (block), and a steel carrying case. EDITOR'S NOTE:Part two of this article, which will appear inMOTHER NO.60, will cover the maintenance and filing of the crosscut saw. HOW A SAW CUTS The cutting teeth of a crosscut saw sever the fibers an each side of the kerf. The raker teeth, cutting like a plane bit, peel the cut fi bers and collect them in the sawdust gullets between the cutting teeth and the raker teeth and carry them out of the cut. A properly sharpened crosscut saw cuts deep and makes thick shavings. For large timber, where the amount of shavings accumulated per stroke is considerable, a large gullet is necessary to carry out the shavings and prevent the saw from binding. Reprinted from Crosscut saw Manual by Warren Miller (available for $1.50 from the superentendent of documents, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C. 20402). The two-man crosscut saw was known by the Romans ... but not till the middle of the 15th century did the tool come into fairly common use in Europe. Records exist of the crosscut being used for cutting logs in the United States between 1635 and 1681. About 1880, Pennsylvania lumbermen began felling trees with the crosscut. Before that time all trees had been ax-felled and crosscut into lengths. Until the 15th century, the two-man crosscut saw was of a plain tooth pattem. The M tooth pattern seems to have been developed and used in south Germany in the 1400's. Even as late as 1900 most of the European crosscuts still used the plain tooth pattern with a few exceptions of M tooth being used. Not until fairly recently was the saw with a raker or "drag" developed. In the case of plain , M, and Great American tooth patterns, each tooth both cuts the wood and clears out the shavings. In the case of the champion, lance, and perforated-lance tooth, however, cutter teeth cut the wood fibers and the rakers remove the scored wood from the newlysawn cut. By the time crosscut use was at its peak, a large number of tooth patterns had been developed, each presumably suited to a particular set of conditions. Crosscut saws can be divided into two types: two-man and one-man. Generally speaking, a one-man saw is shorter, but its defining characteristic is that it is asymmetric. Both types of crosscuts can be used by either one or two persons. One-man crosscuts have been made in lengths from 3 to 6 feet. Two-man saws were produced in lengths from 4 to 12 feet for the Pacific Northwest, and 16 feet for the California redwoods. If a longer saw was needed, two shorter blades were sometimes brazed together. There are two basic saw patterns for the two-man saw: the felling type for felling trees and the bucking pattern for cutting up trees once they are on the ground. Each has characteristics suited to its use. The felling saw has a concave back and is relatively light and flexible. It is light so that less effort is needed to move it back and forth when felling a tree. It is flexible to conform to the are a sawyer's arms take when sawing ... and it is narrow tooth-to-back, enabling the sawyer to place a wedge in the cut behind the saw sooner than with a wide saw. The bucking saw has a straight back. It is much thicker tooth-to-back than the felling saw, so it is heavier and stiffer. A bucking saw traditionally is run by one person, and its stiffness helps prevent buckling on the push stroke. The more weight put on a saw, the faster it will cut, so the weight of a bucking saw is an asset. The teeth of nearly all crosscut saws lie on the arc of a circle. The result is an easier and faster cutting tool than a straight saw. A circular contour is much simpler to maintain than a curve of any other shape. There are three ways that the sides of a saw are finished (ground) when manufactured ... each affects the thickness of the saw in a particular way. These are: flat, straight taper, and crescent taper . A flat -ground saw is one whose thickness is the same everywhere. A taperground blade is thicker on its toothed edge than on its back edge, and has an advantage over a flat-ground implement: It is not as likely to bind in a cut, especially if the kerf is closing behind the saw (as will happen, if the wood being cut is under compression). Also, a taperground blade requires less set than one that is flat-ground. The difference between the straight taper and crescent taper is that the lines of equi-thickness for the former are straight and those for the latter are concentric to the circle of the saw. This means that the teeth of the crescent-taperground crosscut are all the same thickness, whereas the teeth of the straight-taper-ground saw are thicker toward the center of the blade. The uniform tooth thickness of the crescent-taper-ground saw is an obvious advantage over the varying tooth thickness of the straight- tape- ground type. Therefore, the best saws are crescent taper ground. These are indicated by the trademarks "Crescent Ground", "Precision Ground", "Segment Ground", and "Arc Ground". CHOOSING AND USING A SAW Felling saws have been used by trail crews instead of bucking saws for several reasons. They are light and flex easily to conform to a backpack or horse pack. Although they are generally used by two persons, a felling saw�if it is filed properly and the cut is close to vertical�can be run easily by one person. However, with cuts much off the vertical, the free end will droop on the push stroke and oscillate violently on the return stroke. Saws made today have solid ends (the teeth don't run to the ends of the blade). These saws are adequate for bucking and felling where it is not necessary to use the ends. But for finishing some cuts �for example, when a log is lying in the dirt�you need a saw with teeth right to the ends. If you have a choice, choose the toothed-ended saw. An effective saw guard can be made of a section of old firehose, preferably rubber-lined, that has been slit along its length. A guard often removed can be made to fasten with Velcro to speed removal and replacement. To carry a saw, lay it flat across your shoulder with the teeth guarded and facing away from your neck. Remove the rear handle so it won't catch on brush or limbs. In a group, you should make sure to walk last in line. When transported, saws should have better protection than firehose. An accidental blow with a tool or against the side of a vehicle will cause the teeth to cut through the hose and be dulled. One effective way to transport saws is between two pieces of plywood that are firmly bolted together. The first step in cutting a log is swamping. Remove any brush, plants, etc. that may interfere with the work. Something as seemingly insignificant as a blade of grass between the teeth and kerf can jam a saw. Check the lay of the log and decide what will happen when the log is cut. Will it roll? Will it jump? Will it drop? Plan your cuts accordingly. Sometimes it will only be safe to have one person sawing. This is often the case if the log is on a slope. Saw from the uphill side. Before making the cut, remove the bark where the saw will pass. Bark often has dirt in it and some say bark itself dulls a saw rapidly. When cutting green wood, sap may stick to the blade and gradually build up in thickness until the saw will bind in the kerf. To prevent this, the saw blade should be lubricated with kerosene occasionally or when the blade begins to get sticky. Kerosene for this purpose can be kept in a small flat hip flask that can be carried comfortably in the back pocket. If the cork in the neck of the flask has two to three small grooves cut down its length, the blade can be covered evenly with a thin film of kerosene by whisking the corked bottle along the saw. Make sure the saw doesn't get into dirt or rocks at the end of a cut. Make the last few strokes with the end of the blade ... then if it does drag in the dirt, only the end teeth are dulled. Put a piece of bark under the log if possible when there's a chance of running the saw into the dirt. If necessary, dig the log free where the blade will pass. The object is to keep the teeth sharp as long as possible. A leaning tree will have grown so the fibers are quite compressed on one side. In this case it may be possible to sink the teeth in only a couple of inches before they bind. If this happens, grab an ax and start chopping. Saw a few inches and chop out the severed wood. Often a log will be lying in such a way that the kerf begins to close on the saw before a cut is completed. This occurs when the wood is under compression, as when a log is supported at the ends and the cut is in the middle. In some cases, the cut can be continued by driving a wedge into the kerf behind the saw. Where this won't work (if there is not room to drive a wedge or the wedge won't open the kerf), the log must be cut from the bottom, or "underbucked". Generally, underbucking should be done by one man with one handle removed from the saw. This reduces the chance of a saw's being kinked or broken if the log carries it to the ground. To underbuck, plant an ax in the log so you can use the handle as a support for the back of the saw. Out a small notch in the handle for a guide. Some oil in the notch will let the saw run easily and reduce ax handle wear. The spring of the handle will hold the saw in the cut with uniform pressure. A log or rock can be placed under one side of the cut to hold the log up so it will be less likely to carry the saw to the ground as the cut is completed. HANDLE POSITIONS How a saw cuts is determined to some extent by how the handle is attached to the blade and held. Assume the saw is making a vertical cut with the teeth pointing down. With the handle pointing up, a pull stroke will be easier the farther toward the end of the handle the hands are held. The push stroke will be harder. On the other hand, with the handle pointing down, the opposite occurs. In saws that have two holes on each end (generally bucking saws), changing the handle position from the lower to the upper hole will have exactly the same effect as moving the hands several inches up the saw handle. The difference in fore necessary to make a saw stroke under different bandle positions is due to the different downward forces applied to the saw. For example, with the handle up, a push stroke increases the downward force on the saw, causing the teeth to sink deeper into the wood. (This results in a deeper cut that requires more energy.) On the pull stroke a slight upward force is applied to the saw. STORING SAWS A saw should be stored straight. Leaving it bent (around a firepack) will bow the blade. A stored saw should be well oiled with a heavy oil. Grease dissolved in gasoline to a consistency that can be painted on also works well. FINDING SAWS AND TOOLS Until the advent of the chain saw, crosscut saws were a common item and manufactured by several large companies. Now, I know of only one company manufacturing crosscut saws in the United States: Jemco Tool Corp., Saw Division, 60 State St., Seneca Falls, N.Y. 13148. The company distributes a catalog of its saws to dealers and will direct individual buyers to the nearest supplier. Other sources of saws and tools are secondhand stores, the odd hardware store that still has some in stock, and surplus disposed of by different government agencies. A tool kit for crosscut saw reconditioning is available from the Century Tool Co., Inc., Ginkgo Industrial Park, 102 Richard Rd., Ivyland, Pa. 18974. The kit contains a jointer/raker tool gage, a spider (set gage) 3-1/2 inches by 2 inches, a setting stake (block), and a steel carrying case. EDITOR'S NOTE:Part two of this article, which will appear inMOTHER NO.60, will cover the maintenance and filing of the crosscut saw. HOW A SAW CUTS The cutting teeth of a crosscut saw sever the fibers an each side of the kerf. The raker teeth, cutting like a plane bit, peel the cut fi bers and collect them in the sawdust gullets between the cutting teeth and the raker teeth and carry them out of the cut. A properly sharpened crosscut saw cuts deep and makes thick shavings. For large timber, where the amount of shavings accumulated per stroke is considerable, a large gullet is necessary to carry out the shavings and prevent the saw from binding.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It...sscut-Saw.aspx

Squirrel Bait | 02-05-2008 08:38 AM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW I've got a couple old ones, but does anyone still manufacture them. Does anyone know how? SB

Professur | 02-05-2008 08:50 AM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW http://www.clic.net/~jpmercie/ The acknowledged best in the business. http://crosscutsaw.com/3.html for the less speed conscious.

Squirrel Bait | 02-05-2008 10:15 AM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 953506) http://www.clic.net/~jpmercie/ The acknowledged best in the business. http://crosscutsaw.com/3.html for the less speed conscious.
Thanks, those aren't as expensive as I expected. SB

Professur | 02-05-2008 10:29 AM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW NP. I'll tell you tho ... you don't just pick one of those up and start cutting ... unless you've got a hot tub ready and waiting. I helped a neighbour slice up a 40' hemlock with one into 1' slices .... and it was three days before I could scratch my own head.

Goldhedge | 02-05-2008 11:00 AM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW In a word: Chain saw

Professur | 02-05-2008 11:08 AM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW In one word: Gas @$3+

Squirrel Bait | 02-05-2008 11:15 AM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW I don't want to use it!!! But if gas gets real scarce then how scarce will saws be. I would at least like to have a good one to hang on the wall. SB

TheSimpleton | 02-05-2008 12:19 PM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW If there were only enough gas to run one thing, it should be a chainsaw. Failing that, run a 110v electric chainsaw. If you ever pick up a handsaw, you'll surely know what hard work really is. The reason they didn't have crosscut saws for centuries after the they were invented and possible: no one was stupid enough to collect wood in this way until the severe wood shortages of the 16th c. If you want wood, collect drops and plant a coppice like civilized people did. Cutting giant trees into tiny split cords has got to be the biggest waste of trees and human effort of all time. That said, never get a plain tooth, the new M teeth whip them hollow. That's true in bucksaws as well as crosscuts. And be very careful. These are more dangerous than a bucket of swords and at least as dangerous as chainsaws. You're going to need a lot more pevees, axes, wedges and other accessories to work them, as well as a second person, probably. You might also look for the japanese style forest saws, in the japanese style. TS

brewer | 02-05-2008 02:13 PM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW GSman, thanks for the very informative article, I've got 2 very nice 2 man crosscut saws stored away, I found these at a flea market several years ago for 15 bucks each with plenty of life left in the tooth. I cleaned them up, oiled em up and I hope I never have to use these BEAST for bucking up firewood... Been there done that in the Idaho Mts. many years ago... I'd really like to keep the ol' Stihls going a few more years, thank you very much. good luck, brewer

money matters | 02-05-2008 02:36 PM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW Lots of romance in those old saws. Not a lot of practicality. A 36" Swedish saw will cost you about $15 at your hardware store, less at wally's. Buy a couple of these and a bunch of spare blades. Bailey's is a company out of Oregon and Tennessee that sells lumberjack eqpt, the whole 9yds. They have everything you can imagine. A 2 man saw is something from a bygone era. Now you might better deploy those men each cutting logs with a swedish saw. Or, Yeah gas is $3, but with a chainsaw I can process a 9" diameter spruce or birch into firewood in about 20 minutes. Time is money and romance is a joke when survival is your goal. Ever repoint a saw? Tedious and requires special tools. Buy and fill a fuel drum, a jar of PRI-G, a gallon or two of 2 stroke outboard mix oil, a couple of spare chains and bars and 2 Echo, Stihl, or Husqvarna chainsaws and you wil have enough fuel and capacity to clear cut a hundred acres. Bailey's also sells the winch attachment for the bigger saws. Might be a good thing if you are remote. But otherwise a winch on an ATV will pull logs up for cabin building. Or build a cordwood structure. While there is technology available, use it.

Twisted Avatar | 02-05-2008 02:45 PM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 953655) NP. I'll tell you tho ... you don't just pick one of those up and start cutting ... unless you've got a hot tub ready and waiting. I helped a neighbour slice up a 40' hemlock with one into 1' slices .... and it was three days before I could scratch my own head.
Cracking up!!!! T

gaffer | 02-06-2008 02:03 AM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW Crosscut saw invention= Very high technology for that age and a major advance in the "timber economy". Trees were harvested to make houses and to burn for fuel and iron making. Plus to distill into turpentine, to make charcoal and to make pitch (tar). Trees were sort of the oil of the pre-petroleum, the pre-coal centuries

Squirrel Bait | 02-08-2008 09:14 AM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSimpleton (Post 953834) That said, never get a plain tooth, the new M teeth whip them hollow. That's true in bucksaws as well as crosscuts. And be very careful. These are more dangerous than a bucket of swords and at least as dangerous as chainsaws. You're going to need a lot more pevees, axes, wedges and other accessories to work them, as well as a second person, probably. TS
Het T, can you expound on the "M" teeth a little bit. SB

didgmike | 02-08-2008 01:24 PM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW my guess would be the "M" improvement looks like M_M_M_M_M_M_ vs. VVVVVVVVVVVVVV but then again that's just a guess. I love saws. Call me crazy.

TheSimpleton | 02-08-2008 01:49 PM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW Old saws? Like "A penny saved is a penny earned"? D is correct. It's all in the link to http://crosscutsaw.com/3.html "Lance tooth" as opposed to the usual "V" tooth. You find a version of this even on the "swedish" saws MM mentions. I don't care for those bow saws personally, as they cut curves if the cut is log-sized. Probably from being pinched changes the set and so need more care than you'd think. They are very very easy to buy and store, and light to carry, so they have their place. If I were, say, hiking in for trail-work, I'd go with a bow-saw, which can be disassembled, or even whittled on the spot if you keep the pins and spinner. Then you use the OLD Lance-tooth bowsaw blades, which cut better and are far wider (taller) so they have less tendency to curve in the wood. That, and an axe, probably a pulaski axe (has a dirt adze), and you'd go a long way. http://www.sgmtrailbuilders.org/methods.html If you wanted to finish, you could use a hunter's belt hatchet, Kent or other broadaxe, something for drawshave (even a froe), gimlet for standard square twist-auger, a 1" or 2" post and beam chisel (big enough to plane with as a slick), and I think you could make just about anything you can imagine. I mean, at the least an 1800s-era township out of the woods. One problem: I have no source for lance-type bowsaw blades. If anyone knows, please post. They are limited and mostly used up in antique shops. I believe "Crosscutsaw.com" above was only selling V-types, and too thick and heavy. TS

money matters | 02-08-2008 02:14 PM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW Plenty of people make their own lumber in my area. Aside from firewood or for cordwood building, what is the special need for a 2 man crosscut saw? Maybe, just maybe a 2 man saw would be valuable for ripping timber into dimensional lumber, but man what work. A chainsaw with a ripping chain and a jig attachment you lay on top of your log will work about 40 times faster. People backpack them in to remote cabins up here. There are a lot of 20hp Woodmizers and homemade bandsaws that are especially effective, simple to operate, and use about as much gasoline/diesel as an ATV, which is to say very little. I am just not seeing the "romance" in this technology. A folding SVEN saw in a backpack with a few spare blades is a pretty decent tool. Nicholson makes the BOWHACK which is a great tool since it also takes hacksaw blades, and has the 12" swedish saw blades for limbing or making notches and fine detail work. would be easy to even use it for coping. There are some especially effective leverage enhanced limbing shears by Fiskars that you might evaluate for your kit. Stuff that used to require a saw comes right off with a clean cut. Very effective. Great for root cutting. If you anticipate the necessity of building a new structure from local materials (wood etc) in a cold clime, look into cordwood structures. Wood only has an insulation R-Factor of 1 per inch. So to get the equivalent of a 2x6 stick-frame with its R-19 will take ENORMOUS logs. 12" Cordwood with a framed 2x4 interior at R-11 would be way easier to build and warmer. Lots of romance in handscribed tight-notched log homes, just not a lot of practicality where you have months of consistent cold weather.

Squirrel Bait | 02-08-2008 10:30 PM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 959357) I am just not seeing the "romance" in this technology. .
Hey MM, I've got 4 stihls, multiple chains, and well, a few bars. I'm prepared(well...) I do understand what you are saying, though. A chainsaw can cut 40 times the wood that these things can( I do agree). But, how long will my chainsaws last? I do all my own mechanics. These are 2 cycle engines, about as simple as they get. But, the day I can't get certain parts, well, they will get put on the shelf. So, lets say the S(R)HTF. How long will it be before this simple 2 cycle technology cannot be supported. 5 yrs, 10 yrs? Yes, you are right, I will save fuel for a chainsaw. But the technology of a two man crosscut saw will last for what, 25 years before it is worn out? Maybe longer(I really don't know). Good files will really be the problem!! Should it come to that, I would like to buy one now, for a measly 200 Frn's , and hang it on my wall. So maybe my grandchildren can stay warm. Let me know what you think. I'm just shootin' the shit. But, I would like to know which crosscut is better while the gettin' is good...and even available. Also what length is appropriate for the central midwest. Our biggest trees get to be about 40". Oh, and I'm only thinkin' firewood! I don't even want to think about building a structure. SB

money matters | 02-12-2008 12:26 AM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW How long will they last? Stihls last forever. Look on Ebay for a replacement powerhead or a piston & rebuild kit. That same $200 could buy you a couple of saws at a pawn shop. $20 will buy you a 36" bow saw and a spare blade, maybe two spares. Easy to saw heavy timbers just keep a few plastic wedges to keep the blade from binding. The bucksaw is a nice design also. A 2 man crosscut saw, Wow! I'm thinking Pacific Redwoods and Sequoias, Monster Oaks. I'd also say that a 2 man saw is a platform sort of deal, pretty hard to complete your cut with one. I have seen some aggressive toothed handy-man looking saws that could have a secondary handgrip attached to the leading edge of the blade. Like a Stanley carpenter's saw, but wide kerf and aggressive. There are some limbing contraptions which take a section of chainsaw and attach rope on either end, the rope goes over the limb then you pull alternating to bring the limb down. You might be able to do something similar with a stout frame work for cross cutting? I think for $200 I could outfit the family with 10 lg bow saws and plenty of spare blades and make very short work of any tree of any size. How you gonna get the wood back to your house? That is the real question.

goldsilverman | 02-12-2008 12:53 AM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 964014) How long will they last? Stihls last forever. Look on Ebay for a replacement powerhead or a piston & rebuild kit. That same $200 could buy you a couple of saws at a pawn shop. $20 will buy you a 36" bow saw and a spare blade, maybe two spares. Easy to saw heavy timbers just keep a few plastic wedges to keep the blade from binding. The bucksaw is a nice design also. A 2 man crosscut saw, Wow! I'm thinking Pacific Redwoods and Sequoias, Monster Oaks. I'd also say that a 2 man saw is a platform sort of deal, pretty hard to complete your cut with one. I have seen some aggressive toothed handy-man looking saws that could have a secondary handgrip attached to the leading edge of the blade. Like a Stanley carpenter's saw, but wide kerf and aggressive. There are some limbing contraptions which take a section of chainsaw and attach rope on either end, the rope goes over the limb then you pull alternating to bring the limb down. You might be able to do something similar with a stout frame work for cross cutting? I think for $200 I could outfit the family with 10 lg bow saws and plenty of spare blades and make very short work of any tree of any size. How you gonna get the wood back to your house? That is the real question.
...horse and skid?:smokin:

TheSimpleton | 02-12-2008 01:34 PM
Re: THE CROSSCUT SAW If you couldn't run the 2-cycle Stihl, the world would be too different for any of us to imagine it. Or planning for it. I would think...you'd hook up a 1hp electric motor to your bar-chain in some contraption and run it. Or you'd use a plasma lance. Or you'd cut with an ax and drag it back to your saxon hall to be burned in 3m lengths. In short, that's just too different. If people can still remember how to smith iron, there will be more than enough steel above ground to accomodate 18th century needs. With a bit of time, anyone can make a saw because the idea in in their heads and in the books. If you want to plan ahead, what you really need aren't saws, which are easy to make on an outdoor forge, but files, which are hard to make. ...Besides that they have the best grade steel. That would go for quality whetstones as well, another consumable that is difficult to get. Just a thought. How you could preserve any for the 50-100 years until they're needed is another issue. Have a little faith! The little ones will figure out something so long at they're free to work. TS

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