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flash91 | 06-30-2008 04:48 PM
Energy systems Is anyone working on backup power systems? I am in an area where day outages occur, and being out for a week at a time in winter isn't uncommon. I've been looking at the problem, breaking it into 3 parts: 1) Power source 2) Power retention 3) Power distribution 1) Power source I rent, so a noisy generator is out. Shiny solar panels which would draw attention are also out. Low profile - I don't want my neighbors to be curious about what I do and what I got. Right now I charge from wall power, I'm thinking I will take an alternator, hook a crank do it, run it through a bridge rectifier straight to the battery. Anyone else do this? Any problems with overvoltage issues? Charging by human power would be a pain. 2) Power retention I picked up an extra car battery, seems to give me about 5 hours running a PC with cd couple harddisks, monitor etc. I'd like to extend this window, so the power can be accumulated and stored during good times. Before I parallel car batteries, what do you folks use for energy storage? I'm eyeing marine batteries... 3) Distribution I picked up a couple xantrex technologies DC to AC converters. This is the only part I am satisfied with so far. Built in fan, low power buzzer, fault led. I decided to go commercial because I doubt I can put together a better dc/ac conversion. Does anyone have a solution for a propane to electricity system? I figure propane tanks might be better at storing power than batteries. I have propane around for emergency cooking anyway.

Tn...Andy | 06-30-2008 10:09 PM
Re: Energy systems Quote:
Originally Posted by flash91 (Post 1170362) Is anyone working on backup power systems? I am in an area where day outages occur, and being out for a week at a time in winter isn't uncommon. I've been looking at the problem, breaking it into 3 parts: 1) Power source 2) Power retention 3) Power distribution 1) Power source I rent, so a noisy generator is out. Look into small Honda gensets....they are fairly quiet. Shiny solar panels which would draw attention are also out. Low profile - I don't want my neighbors to be curious about what I do and what I got. Uh.....unless you plan on blackout curtain, they ARE gonna know 'what you got'..... Right now I charge from wall power, I'm thinking I will take an alternator, hook a crank do it, run it through a bridge rectifier straight to the battery. Anyone else do this? Any problems with overvoltage issues? Undervoltage will be your problem.....you know how much muscle power it takes to turn out some wattage ? A LOT..... Charging by human power would be a pain. 2) Power retention I picked up an extra car battery, seems to give me about 5 hours running a PC with cd couple harddisks, monitor etc. I'd like to extend this window, so the power can be accumulated and stored during good times. Before I parallel car batteries, what do you folks use for energy storage? I'm eyeing marine batteries... Get deep cycle batteries.....marine or golf cart.....sealed are best unless you plan to spend the maintenance time regular flooded cells. You'll need some way to measure discharge depth....the deeper you discharge, the less cycles you get out of a battery. 3) Distribution I picked up a couple xantrex technologies DC to AC converters. This is the only part I am satisfied with so far. Built in fan, low power buzzer, fault led. I decided to go commercial because I doubt I can put together a better dc/ac conversion. Does anyone have a solution for a propane to electricity system? Are you talking fuel cell ? I figure propane tanks might be better at storing power than batteries. I have propane around for emergency cooking anyway.
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flash91 | 07-01-2008 05:10 PM
Re: Energy systems Thanks for the feedback. I can see from the responses, I should clarify my goals. I'd like a reasonable amount of protection without obsessing about what could happen. Goals: 1) Protection against power outages due to storm, rolling blackout, economic problems. Its not nuclear or off the grid living at this point. If I get nuked, I'm too close to a prime base to survive it. Storms are common though. 2) Isolation in a city environment. The thought is I want to be able to stay put while I size up the situation. I have sound and light isolation pretty well handled. I'm not in a crime zone, and am capable of discouraging all but the desparate. 3) Information. Keeping information lines open is the best way to know what is coming, that means radio, tv, internet and phone. 4) Food and water. Got that covered for longer durations than required. Looking at the responses, 1) Not needing electricity: I've been able to discontinue heat, air conditioning, refridgeration, lighting with great success. Information from radio is good, but not enough for an information hog like myself. I may pick up a handcrank radio unit though. CCrane Freeplay looks like a winner. 2) Batteries I think that the deep cycle marine batteries are the way I'm going to go - I got the same advice from a different source. 3) Generators - Honda I've looked at the honda generators, I see 53 db noise. I'll have to hear one to decide if its reasonable. I want to monitor the situation without having "friends" come help me by using up my supplies and electricity. If I have to open a window so as not to suffocate, its a loosing proposition, because that foils my sound baffles. 4) Generators - Human Power Yep, it doesn't look good. I'm looking at some ultra low power devices, gonna make a setup and do some more math before I give that up. 5) Generators - Propane I'll be using it to cook, so I'll have it around. Propane stores better than gas at room temperature, I think. I've seen some propane based generators, kinda turned off by the idea because again, noise issues. Any information you have on fuel cells would be interesting as well. I think even if there were a coup or nuclear disaster, (Or ZOMBIE ATTACK!) disruption would be intermittant. Anything greater and I probably won't survive it anyway. Plenty of the goals aren't dealt with, its a work in progress. Thanks for the input so far though.

mshen11 | 07-01-2008 05:53 PM
Re: Energy systems * noisy generators - you can get around it w/ honda eu1000 or 2000 or the yamaha 2400. can use the generators to also power your batteries * dont use car batteries - get those marine batteries (AGMs or lead acid) that specializes in deep discharge. your car batteries will die after a few cycles. looking into xantrex xpower1500 if you want something more quiet than a generator. you can stack batteries on top of the 53amphr ones it comes with. you can recharge via wall AC or car DC or solar or anythign else you can do w/ a battery. this might be your best bet given the conditions/restrictions you gave. the downside is it has 1300watt continous power and w/out extra batteries, you cant put much on it.

Ash_Williams | 07-01-2008 07:08 PM
Re: Energy systems You would have to open a window for a gas generator or propane generator or basically any generator that burns anything. It's like idling a car in a garage. Plain old Telephone Service should pretty much work no matter what. If you have a really basic phone there's no reason it shouldn't function during a blackout. As for TV and radio, you can always find smaller ones that are meant for camping and will drain your power far less. Internet might not work anyway. I know if the power goes out on my block it's usually ok, but if the power goes out a few km north of here (where my ISP is), I'm out of luck. They don't have much in the way of backup themselves. But, if your ISP is more reliable than mine, you could consider getting a laptop. You will get a lot more than 5 hours out of a car battery! (And once the car battery dies, you still have 3 hours or so of your laptop battery.) I have some deep cycle batteries. I keep them charged in the garage and just haul them in and stick an inverter on them if I need something. They work pretty good. Most inverters have a voltage monitor so if you go below 10 volts or so they'll beep and shut off, so you'll never really drain these things to near empty. If you do, however, you'll be amazed how long they take to charge back up. Also, I think you are supposed to vent them somehow. I keep them in the garage so I've never concerned myself, but you might want to look into it. If you have a car, then you have an easy way to charge these things. Maybe that's an option. An alternator puts out a lot of juice. But people might wonder if they see you go out there and let your car idle for a while before hauling a battery back.

flash91 | 07-02-2008 04:25 PM
Re: Energy systems I went cellphone long time ago. I'm sort of a minimalist as far as posessions go, so on TV I'd probably try to find one that replaces a regular tv - it all depends on power requirements. I don't really have an internet solution, but I suspect wireless will (in 5 years) become as common as roads. It makes sense from a business standpoint. My local ISP is the absolute worst I've ever had. I used to be Qwest DSL and I think I got spoiled. I have been looking at the Asus EEE. I'm linux savvy, plus I have some good VM's for XP type games that I can run off USB drives. I might use the car in a pinch. I expect gas to rise another dollar during the summer, so I've cut way back on driving. I fill up about every 5 weeks, which is pretty good conservation.

still afloat | 07-02-2008 04:49 PM
Re: Energy systems Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash_Williams (Post 1172277) If you have a really basic phone there's no reason it shouldn't function during a blackout. As for TV and radio, you can always find smaller ones that are meant for camping and will drain your power far less.
As to the tv meant for camping, due to the new digital tv switch over ,wouldn't a converter also be needed unless a low power analog station was running close enough to receive a signal . I'm not sure of how many if any camp type tvs come digital ready.Additional power would also be needed for the converter.

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