Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 | >
Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)
- Survival Prep (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=141)
- - A slightly different take on collapse preps.... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=271163)

Caligula | 06-04-2008 06:04 PM
A slightly different take on collapse preps.... I think I (and you) will need firearms to protect ourselve from those who would take from us, but otherwise I find a lot of wisdom in this older collapse/peak oil essay..... How to Plan for Peak Oil on a Limited Budget Posted on December 1, 2007 http://survivingpeakoil.com/?p=47 Chris Lisle Preparing for peak oil can be relatively easy, since the preparation is 75% mental, 15% physical, and 10% fiscal. Don�t be flabbergasted at what to do. Quit asking should I buy solar? Should I buy an axe? Should I buy a gun? The answers are no, no, and no. If in fact, billions of people will die, look at all the stuff that will be left behind. So, don�t buy it, pick it up off the ground when others leave it behind. This feeling of a need to buy stuff is in fact the very reason why we have this predicament. We over-consume. The preparation problem is not addressed by buying more stuff; it�s addressed by mentally and physically getting used to the idea of getting by on less stuff. The more you learn, the less you need to carry on your back. People spend 80% of their time worrying about things that don�t happen. So, stop worry and start acting. To illustrate the absurdity of buying stuff, what would you buy? It�s impossible to know what to buy, because the event of peak oil is unknown in both time and scope. Preparing for peak oil is not like preparing for a hurricane which we know will hit sometime next week, so we will buy wood to board up the doors, some extra batteries, and maybe get out of town for awhile. Peak oil will not be some isolated calamity that you somehow survive and wake up the next morning and count your blessings. Preparing for peak oil is all about preparing yourself mentally and physically for a complete and permanent change in lifestyle. It is first realizing that there will be no one to come to your rescue the next morning - there will only be you and those around you, and the realization that the next morning will be more of the same, maybe worse than the day before. It�s the realization that you will have to learn to get by using less. So start now by getting over the idea you have to buy stuff and get into more debt. So how do you prepare for a situation like peak oil, which is so indefinite in time and scope? Since we don�t know exactly what will happen and when, any preparation has to prepare you for any contingency at any time - now or 20 years from now. If you do the following, you and your family will be prepared for peak oil or any thing else life may throw at you. Those things are: (1) develop the right attitude; (2) stay healthy; (3) get out of debt; (4) decide where your going to live (build your shelter); (5) buy a good sleeping bag; (6) have a month of food on hand; (7) get good peers. Attitude Positive attitude is the most important aspect of surviving anything, including life in general. Life in general is just one big survival course and we all die in the end anyway. So life isn�t about surviving death, it�s about enjoying what time you have. A positive attitude is important to success in life and it�s the difference between living or dying in a true survival situation. All survival courses begin by telling you to get the right attitude, no matter what. To survive anything, including life, you must first adopt a �can do,� �will survive� attitude. If you don�t believe you will survive, you won�t, plain and simple. You have to always believe that you will survive; you can�t be a quitter. It�s the same thing you teach your kids everyday, don�t quit. Go to school each day, do your homework, try, don�t quit, and everything else will work itself out. Why is it that simply not quitting will get you to the finish line? It�s the law of averages; it�s because others will quit. As others quit, it moves you forward. A good example of this is the old joke about two hunters. Two hunters see a bear coming into their campsite and one starts putting on his running shoes. The other hunter says �You can�t outrun that bear.� The first guy says, �I�m not going to outrun the bear. I�m going to outrun you.� In any situation, all you have to do is outlast the ones that quit. Think of peak oil as the bear. All you have to do is outrun the others, not the bear. Don�t worry if others will quit, they always do. Look at all the millions of people that drop out of high school. Of those that do finish high school fewer go on to college, and fewer still finish college. These are people that quit even though it�s so easy to get through high school and college. In America, an average student can make it through high school and college if they simply don�t quit. I made a �C� average my whole life, but now everyone thinks I�m successful simply because I got my degrees and became a lawyer. I�m a lawyer not because I�m brilliant, but because I finished and never gave up. If a person doesn�t quit and gets through high school and college, they will finish ahead of the vast majority. So, with peak oil, have a good attitude, never quit, and know that you and your family will survive. As they say in Army Ranger School, �Hard times don�t last, hard people do.� Health It never makes any since not to be physically fit and healthy. Staying fit and healthy should be a part of life whether you are preparing for peak oil or not. But for those who need some extra motivation to get in shape, find it in peak oil. How can anyone believe in peak oil and not be in shape? For example, there may be little or no medicines right? Vast numbers of Americans, both young and old, suffer from obesity and are kept alive by a health system that may not survive peak oil. Those unhealthy people can barely walk up a flight of stairs right now. What are they going to do if there are no medicines to support their unhealthy lifestyle and no air conditioning, elevators, escalators, or motorized shopping carts to get their groceries? These unhealthy people are the ones that will quit first and not survive peak oil - don�t you be one of them. All these millions of unhealthy people have little chance of making it. The bear of peak oil will swallow them up. All you have to do is outlast them, and that won�t be hard if you just do a little today to get in shape and stay healthy. Just a little exercise and you will be okay. Basic physical fitness costs you and your family nothing, but pays big dividends not only in everything you do but in your mental attitude - remember, attitude is the first key to survival. So, you had better be on your way to physical fitness or you will be swallowed up by the bear of peak oil. The more physically fit you are, the less sick you will be. Further, in a culture that will be more and more dependent upon physical labor, you will be prepared to take on that challenge. This means you start eating right and getting some exercise. If you smoke, quit. You don�t have to join a gym. You don�t have to buy anything. All it takes is a little discipline to set aside a some time each day. Exercising a mere three times a week and practicing some discipline at the dinner table will put you ahead of millions of others. Do some pushups and sit-ups three times a week, and run, walk or bike three times a week and you will be okay - cut the deserts and fried foods. If you believe in the calamities of peak oil but are not willing to get in shape and start eating right, then you don�t really believe in peak oil, it�s only �peaked� your interest. Further, if you can�t discipline yourself to workout, you don�t have the winning attitude it is going to take to survive peak oil, and probably won�t survive life�s normal ups and downs. Life is and always has been about survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest, literally, starts now. Make sure you and your family keep regular dental and health exams each year - prevention now, because there may be no future cure. Debt Get out of debt! You should begin getting out of debt immediately. I say this as a lawyer. Everyday, I see people�s lives ruined because of debt they can�t sustain. One minute, they are happy thinking their world is okay. Then, they are suddenly and completely debilitated by an injury or illness, or they lose their job, and their financial house of cards comes crashing down on them. Peak oil will do the same. Get out of debt now. This requires as much discipline as getting in shape. Most of you will probably have to completely change your lives to get out of debt. You should do this now while you control it before peak oil forces it on you. By definition, getting out of debt doesn�t cost you anything, but it�s not easy. You must learn to live on less. You will be preparing yourself and your family for a post peak oil economy and keeping the creditors away at the same time. Hopefully, as you get out of debt you will also be stockpiling some cash savings and increasing assets. Getting out of debt is like the old credit card commercials where the hordes go after those people with high interest credit cards and pass by the low interest credit card holder. Thus, if you get out of debt, the bear of peak oil will pass you by and go gobble up those millions of other Americans who are out spending like there is no tomorrow. The problem with the philosophy of spending like there is no tomorrow is that it�s unrealistic. There is always another tomorrow, and no one knows what it will bring. So, be prepared for that unknown tomorrow by getting out of debt. There are always ways to cut costs. You save money not by getting a better paying job, but by cutting costs/expenses. To save money and get out of debt, you need to immediately quit buying stuff that you don�t need. Use that money saved to get yourself out of debt. If you have to, cancel all nonessentials like cable, newspaper, and cell phone, quit eating out and start eating at home. Cancel your credit cards! Getting out of debt may mean down-sizing your life-style like selling a car that�s too expensive or a house that you can�t afford. The home and the car are the biggest expenses for most people. People can often downsize a home by selling one that�s too expensive, make a little money on it, and then buy a cheaper smaller house. Bottom line - get out of a lifestyle that you can probably barely afford now and certainly can�t afford in a time of crisis. Learn to discipline you buying - before you buy anything, ask whether you need it or desire it. There is a big difference between need and desire. For example, you need to eat, but you don�t need to eat desert. Craving a desert is desire, not need. Save the money, don�t get the desert, and you get in shape and out of debt at the same time. In this way, you are preparing for peak oil and so far, you haven�t spent a dime. By recognizing the difference between need and desire, you are also working on your attitude, which is so critical to surviving a changing world. Your Home Shelter is the first priority in a true survival situation - then water, then food. In a true survival situation, more people die of hypothermia than for lack of thirst or food. This will be true with peak oil. So, let�s talk about your shelter. Your shelter is your home. In a true survival situation, you need a shelter near a source of water and out of the extremes of the environment if possible. So, how do you select a home site meeting these criteria? Here are some considerations: (1) Own your home if possible. You need to own if possible, not rent. Owning a home is always the best thing financially, peak oil or no peak oil. Keep the home simple and inexpensive. Further, it is usually harder to get a person out of a home they own than it is to evict a tenant. Everyone does not need their own bedroom and bathroom. Abe Lincoln was raised in a one room cabin, and he turned out okay, and so will your kids. (2) You need a home with a yard. You need a yard to be able to have a garden, collect water, etc. (3) Don�t live in a condo or any type of multi-housing. Don�t live in an apartment or a trailer park. Condos and apartments probably don�t have any usable yard space and become unbearable if the heat or AC goes off. That housing is unlivable if the elevators don�t work or the water shuts off. So, move to a home and get out of the apartment or condo. (4) Live in a mild climate area. Live in a part of the United States where you can will not need heating or air-conditioning to survive. The area also needs ample rainfall each year (not Arizona or New Mexico). For example, in my home state of Arkansas, the climate is mild enough you can survive the winter, if you had to, with a blanket. You can survive summers by sitting on your porch. There are no droughts here, at least not yet. (5) Live in a state where your home is not subject to foreclosure by any creditor other than your home lender. In many states, Arkansas for example, the home is exempt from foreclosure by anyone other than the home mortgage holder. So, if you get your house paid off in Arkansas, it is truly your castle. Move to a state where your home is exempt from creditors. This makes the most financial and survival sense. (6) Downsize your home. Many people have too much home. Big homes are expensive to heat and cool, expensive to keep up, and cost more. Downsize everything, including your home. Do more with less! Get lean and mean. (7) What home should you buy. Any small home in a small community, within walking distance of a school and store, a home with a yard, preferably an acre lot to plant a garden, with a pond or a swimming pool for a source of water (pools hold up to 15,000 gallons of water or more), in an area with ample yearly rainfall. You can buy homes in small communities in rural states very cheap. Check any of the following states: Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas. At one time, some communities in Kansas were offering free lots to anyone who would build a home on them and take up a residence there. So far, nothing I have suggested has cost you anything. However, if you get your body and budget in shape, and you make sure your shelter is in the right place and the right cost, you stand a good chance of surviving the bear of peak oil; at least you will be ahead of the curve. Your Sleeping Bag There�s only one item I recommend you buy, and that�s a good sleeping bag. A good sleeping bag is worth its weight in gold. You need a good sleeping bag for many reasons. In a true survival situation, most people die because of hypothermia, not because of lack of water or food. A person can die of hypothermia in temperatures well above freezing. Just getting cold and wet at 60 degrees can make someone go hypothermic. In any survival situation, maintaining body temperature is critical to surviving. Further, getting sleep is essential to a good attitude and essential for making good decisions. Cave men would have killed for a good sleeping bag. How does a good sleeping bag have anything to do with peak oil? As fuel supplies dwindle, people wonder how to heat their homes without any home heating oils. The answer is easy, a $400 or less sleeping bag. I�ve slept comfortably in the snowy Italian Alps and in Alaska with no fire, no tent, and no ground pad - all I had was a good sleeping bag. I�ve spent many nights outside, and I am here to say that a good sleeping bag can keep you cozy warm in any climate under any conditions, be it rain, sleet, or snow. Even if you now live in a warm climate like southern Florida, you never know where you will be in 10 years if forced to migrate for some reason because of changes brought about by peak oil. You too will need a good sleeping bag. It is your mobile shelter. A good sleeping bag is a survival must and first on my list of survival/peak oil equipment. For a one time expense of $400 or less, you never have to worry about electric heat, wood heat, gas heat, or where you are going to sleep. The sleeping bag is lightweight, will last a lifetime if cared for, and easily transportable. If you trust me and buy a sleeping bag, buy a synthetic bag, not a down bag. Synthetic bags keep you warm even when wet, down bags don�t. Always buy a bag with a temperature rating at least 15 degrees colder than your average winters. In my opinion, you should buy a synthetic bag rated down to minus 20 or 25 degrees (trust me). Here are some good dealers in cheap synthetic sleeping bags - �Cheaper than Dirt� and �High Peak.� I recently bought three synthetic sleeping bags rated down to -20 degrees for $60 each. I can survive anywhere now. Have bag, will travel. Food Have a month�s supply of food on hand ($500). There are numerous websites dealing with food supplies etc. But basically, buy things you will eat. Remember, though, you are eating to survive, not for taste. When choosing foods, dry milk, white rice and dried beans will last almost indefinitely if stored right (and their cheap, a fifty pound bag of white rice costs about $13.00). Canned foods will last two years, longer if stored right. Honey is good food, stores for a long time, and is also a good home medicine. Honey is a natural antibiotic and can be used to treat wounds, even gunshot wounds and burns. Do an internet search on honey and wound care. Learn all about it. Iodized salt is a must and will last indefinitely. Pure sugar is a must, and lasts almost indefinitely. Peanut butter is the best all round survival food. You don�t have to heat or cook it, it comes in its own container, you can eat it with your finger, and its crammed full of protein, carbs and fats. It will keep you going. It lasts two years on the shelf. Peers We all know that peers are an important part of growing up, but they are just as important to us as adults as they were to us as kids. Though I�ve been through many extreme survival courses, I have no illusions that I could survive alone for very long. Surviving alone in the wilderness is for movies. Even cave men lived in small groups and depended on the group to survive. Nations are just bigger groups. Peak oil will not be the death of us all, there will be survivors. To survive peak oil and life, you are going to have to be surrounded by good, honest, trustworthy people - people that help each other out. A group provides strength and security in many ways. For example, you cannot learn everything you need to learn. It would be impossible to know all trades or even know what trades to learn, so just find a community of people, develop good relationships, and you will be okay. The collective knowledge and power of your community is what will get you through peak oil.

Silver Shield | 06-04-2008 06:11 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Good read need more like it.

macrohard | 06-04-2008 06:26 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... 1 Attachment(s) I'd add (Among other things...) 1) A large military-grade tent 2) Merino wool clothing (Icebreaker, woolpower etc).

Tn...Andy | 06-04-2008 06:37 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Sorry....I quit reading after this jewel: "Quit asking should I buy solar? Should I buy an axe? Should I buy a gun? The answers are no, no, and no. If in fact, billions of people will die, look at all the stuff that will be left behind. So, don’t buy it, pick it up off the ground when others leave it behind." Great advice......unless of course you just happen to NEED any of that stuff to stay alive before someone ELSE has the decency to croak and leave it to you.....ahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa Positive thinking is wonderful.....but as my Irish grannie used to say "IF wishes were horses, then beggars would ride".

xinkid | 06-04-2008 06:44 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1132300) Sorry....I quit reading after this jewel: "Quit asking should I buy solar? Should I buy an axe? Should I buy a gun? The answers are no, no, and no. If in fact, billions of people will die, look at all the stuff that will be left behind. So, don�t buy it, pick it up off the ground when others leave it behind."
The rest was actually quite good. I also thought the author was trying too hard to push his mental and frugal prepping by diminishing the importance of physical prepping. slight off=topic but anyone here installing solar panels? I think it will be a very good investment when hyperinflation hits.

macrohard | 06-04-2008 07:00 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula (Post 1132240) The answer is easy, a $400 or less sleeping bag. I�ve slept comfortably in the snowy Italian Alps and in Alaska with no fire, no tent, and no ground pad - all I had was a good sleeping bag. I�ve spent many nights outside, and I am here to say that a good sleeping bag can keep you cozy warm in any climate under any conditions, be it rain, sleet, or snow.
Isn't this extremely retarded? I mean....EXTREMELY stupid? No ground pad? Stupid. And how can a sleeping bag keep you warm "in any climate under any conditions"?

Twisted Avatar | 06-04-2008 07:26 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by macrohard (Post 1132339) Isn't this extremely retarded? I mean....EXTREMELY stupid? No ground pad? Stupid. And how can a sleeping bag keep you warm "in any climate under any conditions"?
I kinda scratched my head on that one as well. I give the article a 7.5 outta 10. T

Canadian-guerilla | 06-04-2008 07:51 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... and this guy is supposed to be a "former U.S. Army Ranger" http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/...OnABudget.html Quote:
Have a month�s supply of food on hand ($500).
is that for one person ? that's a lot of survival food for one month i'm sure the excess food (per month) would always be useful i think the author is playing with his costs as for the $400 sleeping bag i could make do with a big cardboard box ( ground pad ) and three $25 sleeping bags ( layers ) and i stopped counting at 20 the phrase " peak oil "

lessoil=+pm | 06-04-2008 08:13 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by macrohard (Post 1132339) Isn't this extremely retarded? I mean....EXTREMELY stupid? No ground pad? Stupid. And how can a sleeping bag keep you warm "in any climate under any conditions"?
nope. he's right on this point, generally; even in the rain. been there. hardly comfortable though cause u'r wet! note that these bags are rated for -20 etc. tenn andy's point though is the cat's meow!

Bx3 | 06-04-2008 10:02 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... As for his point regarding firearms, tell that to the people of Katrina, the Rodney King Riots or any other break down of law and order in American history. You are your first line of defense always and forever. Advice like this will likely get some people killed when things get worse. What a dick! Bx3

Squirrel Bait | 06-04-2008 10:51 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula (Post 1132240) I think I (and you) will need firearms to protect ourselve from those who would take from us, but otherwise I find a lot of wisdom in this older collapse/peak oil essay..... How to Plan for Peak Oil on a Limited Budget Posted on December 1, 2007 http://survivingpeakoil.com/?p=47 This feeling of a need to buy stuff is in fact the very reason why we have this predicament. We over-consume. .
I actuallly made it to the second paragraph. Do we over consume? Yes!!! I recently got divorced. When I cleaned out my daughters room she had over 600 beenie babies in there. All bought by the Ex. To me this was just fricken insanity, but this is the overconsumption you have got to be talking about. RIGHT?? But this is the America we all know and love I do not feel that buying and ax or a few guns and ammo, or even a years worth of food storage, can, in any way, be called over-consumption when we have people out there buying totally worthless crap cause it makes them feel better and they are doing it on credit no doubt. I'd better stop there. s

xinkid | 06-04-2008 10:59 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... I buy all my preps on 0% credit. It's gonna worth a lot more than the balance owed when it comes time to pay it back

DogFarm | 06-05-2008 12:09 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... i see a lot of wisdom in this. you never know where you will be when you will be forced into a survival situation. on a plane, on a business trip, on vacation, etc.

Juristic Person | 06-05-2008 12:45 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1132300) Sorry....I quit reading after this jewel: "Quit asking should I buy solar? Should I buy an axe? Should I buy a gun? The answers are no, no, and no. If in fact, billions of people will die, look at all the stuff that will be left behind. So, don�t buy it, pick it up off the ground when others leave it behind." Great advice......unless of course you just happen to NEED any of that stuff to stay alive before someone ELSE has the decency to croak and leave it to you.....ahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa Positive thinking is wonderful.....but as my Irish grannie used to say "IF wishes were horses, then beggars would ride".
Actually I agree with the answer to the first question. "Should I buy solar? No." I agree, don't buy it. SELL IT!!

Seleukus Nikator | 06-05-2008 12:52 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by macrohard (Post 1132339) ..........And how can a sleeping bag keep you warm "in any climate under any conditions"?
yep as soon as it rains and you are cold and asleep, mayhap you die interestin article, thanks, but he's no big outdoorsman I'd say

Mosca | 06-05-2008 04:38 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Unless of course you have a good Gortex sleeping bag cover, bivvey bag, to go with it and its a hollow fill bag as opposed to down. I've slept in puddles like that on many nights, but not on successive nights. Having said that, I think the gist of what the guy is saying has some merritt. I just wouldn't take it too literally or try and apply it to every situation. I'm happy if 90% of what some one posts is crap so long as I can learn something from the remaining 10%.

jaybone | 06-05-2008 05:24 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1132559) On the list. One thing though, most people think they need 30k of panels to do any good. 2-3k will get you a basic functional emergency system. We are planning to buy enough panels for basic electrical needs, so we would not have to run the generator so much. Things like a small microwave, radio, a few compact flourecent bulbs would make life so much more bearable.
QFT http://kensolar.com/tek9.asp?pg=prod...cific=jnnngoi8 Cheap IMO, not going to get you off grid, but on a sunny day I run my washing machine for free, or a few hours of a small ac. In a pinch I could keep my freezer going for a few hours, or an electric blanket on all night long. All for the price of an ounce of the shiny stuff. I was going to get a gas gennie, but if things go south where am I going to get gas?

Riskfactor | 06-05-2008 07:51 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula (Post 1132240) If in fact, billions of people will die, look at all the stuff that will be left behind. So, don�t buy it, pick it up off the ground when others leave it behind.
haha. that's almost comical. like these people are going to suddenly DIE like *POOF* no, they will do their damndest to survive, and when/if they pass away, it will be a long and grueling process for most of them, selling whatever they have, bartering with whatever they have.

Cassius | 06-05-2008 08:23 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... I quit reading after he spelled sense with an "I".

TLM | 06-05-2008 09:13 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... My guess is I have a better chance of dying from a car or motorcycle wreck, a tornado, falling off the roof, a heart attack, brain tumor or a dozen other things before the after affects of "peak oil" or "global warming" will be my undoing. Peace TLM

cosmolothrentas | 06-05-2008 09:43 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/001921.php http://www.zzstove.com/sierra.html Amazon.com: Stanley 55-099 FatMax Xtreme Fubar Functional Utility Bar: Home Improvement Amazon those three items should be on the list of what to have .

TheSimpleton | 06-10-2008 12:24 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... This guy was slapped around pretty good, but a Simpleton always enters the fray! I agree with what he's saying. There isn't time to discuss the ins and outs of sleeping bags, solar prioritization, survival, food production and storage...that's what this forum does, and ask our Servermaster how much space it takes. He's just being straightforward with priority examples of how easy the basics are. I've often slept out in terrible conditions, usually without a tent or ground pad. Even in the rain, although as noted, you won't sleep much. You'll be a miserable sod as much as any dog huddling on the lee side of his kennel--but you'll live. It's actually not that hard most of the time because you only have to tough 12-48 hours til the weather breaks. That's not exactly living, but without a bag you would be dead. Buy all four and stash them anywhere you might land up. Add two ponchos for each bag and call it a day. It's a bargain at twice the price. No, you don't need solar. That's a high level that one should only bother with after everything else is taken care of. That said, the tiniest set, say an 80w panel and a car battery with $30 inverter, would make life terribly pleasant for a real pittance. Lincoln may have lived in a cabin, but he ruined his eyes reading by a candle, and house fires were endemic. In a blackout, you'll discover lots of new friends. I'd stake $500US on a months' food. That sounds in the ballpark to me. Peers: most important of all. Security is now and will be a key issue, since you can't have anything else, food, water, house, without security. And that security comes from the cooperation of other people. You can't stay awake forever. Peers are also the biggest security risk, but that's the way of it. He's right about buying, because any of us can get by on far less than we ever imagined--garbage and leftovers. I'm thinking of swapping your cuisiniart pots for coffee cans, Lexus car for a bicycle, your Barbour coat for a tarp. Think of all the extra quilts and throws, bottles, pants, shoes, and bits of recyclable stainless in every house in the G7. Compare to living in a Hogan or a Blackhouse. You need almost nothing, equipmentwise, to live. A knife, a pot, a coat, a blanket, and two shoes. You can make everything else yourself by the time you need it. That said, it makes no sense to do so when the price of the best shovel and axe ever made have never been lower in history. When you know rain is coming, you CAN plan ahead, even if you only know it's hurricane <i>season</i>, not whether one is making landfall tomorrow. Waiting for the houses to be abandonded before you go for batteries may work, but it has technical issues. And knowing what is ahead, what you will need are <i>tools</i> to grow gardens, skin and preserve and repair things, to move from a consumer to a producer. As tools are centrally-sourced right now, there will be a large gap before local shovel and seed suppliers come online. Plan accordingly. I notice no one, including himself, highlighted what he said was the 75%--knowledge. That's cheap, easy, portable, and valuable. If I could only have one thing about survival, it would be to ignore the STUFF completely, and allow people nothing but knowledge. With knowledge, a sharp rock and an abandonded lot can be made into a comfortable situation. Without it, the best gear wouldn't carry you a week, and would be stolen to boot. I should just troll and respond to every "what to buy" thread with "knowledge". But I'm Simple that way. TS "It's time for the human race to enter the solar system!"

Worldmariner | 06-13-2008 12:38 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by macrohard (Post 1132339) Isn't this extremely retarded? I mean....EXTREMELY stupid? No ground pad? Stupid. And how can a sleeping bag keep you warm "in any climate under any conditions"?
I live in S. FL. The ONE ITEM you can't give away in a sorting goods store is a sleeping bag! *laugh* Hammock with mosquito netting? A different story.

lessoil=+pm | 06-13-2008 05:39 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldmariner (Post 1145024) I live in S. FL. The ONE ITEM you can't give away in a sorting goods store is a sleeping bag! *laugh* Hammock with mosquito netting? A different story.
i'm a long way from fla, but w/ this very early heat the hammock is on my list[already got the netting]!

Family Man | 06-14-2008 10:19 AM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... I was flabbergasted by his comment on not buying a gun, just pick one up.:banghead: The reality is their are too many scenarios that would send up the balloon before a peak oil crises. C'mon...I don't go anywhere without my .45. His essay may inspire some to actually learn more skills, and decrease their anxiety of under preparing, but those people will have to make it through the transition process in the first days of SHTF by what ? ...waiting in FEMA lines or holding their hand out? Or being looted himself at gunpoint by another unprepared yuppie who does have a gun, and is spun out because his meds are out and he has'nt had a latte in 5 days? GGGG God Guns Groceries Gold Oh, everyone go and pay for some professional training with your rifle, pistol, and shotgun. You're chances of surviving increase dramatically if you can think, shoot, and move under stress!

MystryBox | 06-14-2008 10:32 AM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Who is this guy and why does he think peak oil is some sort of disaster event? As oil supplies fall and the price of oil rises many alternative energies suddenly become economical and will ramp up and take over. We currently use oil for everything because it's cheap energy, but once it's not as cheap other methods for getting energy (which are already out there but too expensive) will become economical. It's a self-solving problem and will actually be a good thing in my view... once we're structured to get energy from other methods we can tell the middle east to shove their oil. Now if you lived in a country that makes all its revenue from oil sales THEN I'd be worried!

SilverSalmon | 06-14-2008 11:17 AM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by jaybone (Post 1133687) QFT http://kensolar.com/tek9.asp?pg=prod...cific=jnnngoi8 Cheap IMO, not going to get you off grid, but on a sunny day I run my washing machine for free, or a few hours of a small ac. In a pinch I could keep my freezer going for a few hours, or an electric blanket on all night long. All for the price of an ounce of the shiny stuff. I was going to get a gas gennie, but if things go south where am I going to get gas?
KEN SOLAR IS A SCAM!!!!!! http://http://digg.com/environment/B...from_Ken_Solar Jesus freakin Christ, WHY in God's name would you recommend something by someone without first purchasing or researching the damn thing, unless of course you are the scammer. I NEVER RECOMMEND ANYTHING TO FRIENDS WITHOUT KNOWING THE PRODUCT OR PERSON MYSELF. WE ARE A COMMUNITY HERE AND A FAMILY. THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK!!!!!! This is just simple minded! Why would you suggest something that you haven't vetted. I'm glad I understand most people are sheep and research everything and I do mean everything someone recommends to me. I'm a shamed of you and Hope no one else here will ever, and I do mean ever take your thoughtless mindless dribble as advice. We are family here, I can't say that enough, would you recommend something to your close family member without checking it out first. MAkes me think you're KEn Solar! Sheep! Bahh! Bahh! i have grass over here. Bahh Bahh! This article was written for people like you. Awareness is priceless!

mshen11 | 06-15-2008 04:18 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... thanks for the confirmation about ken solar. red flags went off in my mind for two reasons after reading his site: 1. what he is offering is basically xpower1500 + solar panels, compare his prices w/ the said setup, he is ripping you off! 2. on his website he says he is using lead acid battery. he then claims "the more you use the setup, the longer the battery will last". dream on. ill pay for a battery like he described at the twice the price if it can be verified 3. some joe smoe w/ no cc option? might as well as give cash to the homeless down the street and have him mail it to ken for me. 4. his battery + solar firepower is might small compared to his claims of what it can run. ps: in another thread, other people brought up other warning signs i didnt pay attention to because i already wrote the guy off

SilverSalmon | 06-15-2008 04:50 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by mshen11 (Post 1147615) thanks for the confirmation about ken solar. red flags went off in my mind for two reasons after reading his site: 1. what he is offering is basically xpower1500 + solar panels, compare his prices w/ the said setup, he is ripping you off! 2. on his website he says he is using lead acid battery. he then claims "the more you use the setup, the longer the battery will last". dream on. ill pay for a battery like he described at the twice the price if it can be verified 3. some joe smoe w/ no cc option? might as well as give cash to the homeless down the street and have him mail it to ken for me. 4. his battery + solar firepower is might small compared to his claims of what it can run. ps: in another thread, other people brought up other warning signs i didnt pay attention to because i already wrote the guy off
Thanks so much for your acknowledgement, I got creamed by a poster for being too harsh with my words. I get a little excited about fraud, I get more excited when people suggest or recommend something without first vetting the recommendation. That a sin, especially when you lose 1300 dollars, because you trusted a GIMMER. I'm glad I'm a skeptic by nature and research everything myself. Good luck to you. I hope others took heed!

Twisted Avatar | 06-15-2008 04:59 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... 1 Attachment(s) Glad I am not the only person around here that freaks out like a rabid dog...:D

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:08 AM. |
Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 | >
Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright = None use it and Link to GIM

Gold & Silver Forum - A slightly different take on collapse preps....

Page 2 of 2 | < | 1 | 2
Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)
- Survival Prep (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=141)
- - A slightly different take on collapse preps.... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=271163)

Sparky | 06-15-2008 09:57 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by MystryBox (Post 1146157) Who is this guy and why does he think peak oil is some sort of disaster event? As oil supplies fall and the price of oil rises many alternative energies suddenly become economical and will ramp up and take over. We currently use oil for everything because it's cheap energy, but once it's not as cheap other methods for getting energy (which are already out there but too expensive) will become economical. It's a self-solving problem and will actually be a good thing in my view... once we're structured to get energy from other methods we can tell the middle east to shove their oil. ...
Here's the Catch-22: the reason we don't move toward alternative energy is that too many people think this way, i.e. we'll wait to deal with it when we have to. I have come to the conclusion that people with this opinion have no sense of scale of the problem. There is no rapidly deployable alternate solution for the 125 billion gallons of gasoline and diesel that the U.S. consumes annually on transportation alone. You can't move people and food with nuclear, solar, wind, or geothermal power. It's estimated that it will take 25-50 years to develop the technology and infrastructure to support a new alternative system at that scale once we all decide that oil and gasoline are too expensive at $20/gallon. So it's going to be a long 25-50 years.

____hoot____ | 06-15-2008 10:28 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... What a pile of crap! Assshole believes everything he has been programed with by big oil controled governments and media . Peak Oil=Peak Bullshit There is currently an oil oversupply in the world, and that is why we are over in Iraq shooting the place up, makeing damn sure that they will never pump 3 million barrels a day again. Sure wouldn't take this dip-shit's advice about survival.

SilverSalmon | 06-15-2008 10:45 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky (Post 1147935) Here's the Catch-22: the reason we don't move toward alternative energy is that too many people think this way, i.e. we'll wait to deal with it when we have to. I have come to the conclusion that people with this opinion have no sense of scale of the problem. There is no rapidly deployable alternate solution for the 125 billion gallons of gasoline and diesel that the U.S. consumes annually on transportation alone. You can't move people and food with nuclear, solar, wind, or geothermal power. It's estimated that it will take 25-50 years to develop the technology and infrastructure to support a new alternative system at that scale once we all decide that oil and gasoline are too expensive at $20/gallon. So it's going to be a long 25-50 years.
Exactly! and AMEN!

SilverSalmon | 06-15-2008 10:47 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by ____hoot____ (Post 1147957) What a pile of crap! Assshole believes everything he has been programed with by big oil controled governments and media . Peak Oil=Peak Bullshit There is currently an oil oversupply in the world, and that is why we are over in Iraq shooting the place up, makeing damn sure that they will never pump 3 million barrels a day again. Sure wouldn't take this dip-shit's advice about survival.
Where's your proof? Over supply? Proof! i would like to see the math and numbers on this one. I would like to the math. Show me the numbers and the math.

tojaktoty | 06-16-2008 04:07 AM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by MystryBox (Post 1146157) Who is this guy and why does he think peak oil is some sort of disaster event? As oil supplies fall and the price of oil rises many alternative energies suddenly become economical and will ramp up and take over. We currently use oil for everything because it's cheap energy, but once it's not as cheap other methods for getting energy (which are already out there but too expensive) will become economical. It's a self-solving problem and will actually be a good thing in my view... once we're structured to get energy from other methods we can tell the middle east to shove their oil. Now if you lived in a country that makes all its revenue from oil sales THEN I'd be worried!
You are not taking into consideration that oil, and our evolutionary embracing of it into every aspect of individual and social life, is the cheapest AND most compact form of liquid abundant energy. There is nothing on the horizon that can be both as cheap and/or as compact and mobile. We shall see what happens with these oil excreting bacteria and how quickly their production will be ramped up. But it is blind optimistic thinking that the ingenuity of free markets will magically unearth or discover in the near future an energy source equivalent that is replaceable or interchangeable with the characteristics of oil. We do have many other alternatives already available but as you state they are presently not economically competitive versus oil. Assuming oil prices continue to rise and these alternatives garner greater market share they will not be direct oil replacements. They most likely will not be offering similar amounts of energy or the type of mobility and store of energy that oil allows even at present prices. Their will be dramatic changes in the nature of the way our economy and society function, all the way to their core, when alternatives are generally accepted to oil. The disaster event is the myopic thinking that alternative energy sources will allow our present state of affairs and individual lifestyles to continue unchanged as they are today. Some are preparing themselves in the event that this transitory stage will at some points in time or space not be completely peaceful let alone stable. Using your words, some don't think that alternative energies will be able to ramp up and take over. Others think that alternative energies will ramp up and take over meanwhile questioning the smoothness of the process. I state all this without questioning the validity of peak oil and abiotic oil production.

MystryBox | 06-16-2008 03:13 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky (Post 1147935) Here's the Catch-22: the reason we don't move toward alternative energy is that too many people think this way, i.e. we'll wait to deal with it when we have to. I have come to the conclusion that people with this opinion have no sense of scale of the problem. There is no rapidly deployable alternate solution for the 125 billion gallons of gasoline and diesel that the U.S. consumes annually on transportation alone. You can't move people and food with nuclear, solar, wind, or geothermal power. It's estimated that it will take 25-50 years to develop the technology and infrastructure to support a new alternative system at that scale once we all decide that oil and gasoline are too expensive at $20/gallon. So it's going to be a long 25-50 years.
Apocalyptic scenarios are ones that nobody sees coming until they hit and they hit hard and fast. They are out there but nobody knows what they are or when they will hit--that’s what makes them apocalyptic. Peak oil is a well known issue and so ain't one of them just like Y2K wasn't one of them (and I made the same point about Y2K last decade). Sure there is no alternative to our oil infrastructure today, because there was never a need (nor the economics to find one). Now there is. Necessity is the mother of invention. Peak oil isn't an overnight issue--oil supplies will ramp down and other technologies become economically feasible and will ramp up (and they will evolve at exponential growth rates). Yes it might take 25 years or more, but so what? As that timeline progresses the alternatives for oil will come online reducing demand for oil. The market faces a problem, new incentives arise and solutions are found. Peak oil isn't the sort of rapid collapse problem that makes any sense to imagine apocalyptic scenarios for. It's exactly the sort of problem humans and our evolving markets and technology are well equipped to tackle.

SilverSalmon | 06-16-2008 05:21 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by MystryBox (Post 1148997) Apocalyptic scenarios are ones that nobody sees coming until they hit and they hit hard and fast. They are out there but nobody knows what they are or when they will hit--that�s what makes them apocalyptic. Peak oil is a well known issue and so ain't one of them just like Y2K wasn't one of them (and I made the same point about Y2K last decade). Sure there is no alternative to our oil infrastructure today, because there was never a need (nor the economics to find one). Now there is. Necessity is the mother of invention. Peak oil isn't an overnight issue--oil supplies will ramp down and other technologies become economically feasible and will ramp up (and they will evolve at exponential growth rates). Yes it might take 25 years or more, but so what? As that timeline progresses the alternatives for oil will come online reducing demand for oil. The market faces a problem, new incentives arise and solutions are found. Peak oil isn't the sort of rapid collapse problem that makes any sense to imagine apocalyptic scenarios for. It's exactly the sort of problem humans and our evolving markets and technology are well equipped to tackle.
Do you understand we don't have the time to innovate, it's too late? We eat oil, it's the fabric of our life, nothing can or will replace it. We don't have 25 years, unless they have some secret we don't know about and I concede they my, but if they don't we're screwed. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

MystryBox | 06-16-2008 05:30 PM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSalmon (Post 1149243) Do you understand we don't have the time to innovate, it's too late? We eat oil, it's the fabric of our life, nothing can or will replace it. We don't have 25 years, unless they have some secret we don't know about and I concede they my, but if they don't we're screwed. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
Peak oil isn't the end of oil, it's the peak of the supply curve. It's only the end of cheap oil. From here supply will trail off which will increase prices but there are still decades of oil left. As prices rise other ways of getting oil that had previously been uneconomical (such as tar sands) become economical and add to the supply. Also as prices increase demand drops (e.g. SUV's are replaced with economy cars) and other means of generating energy become economical which also reduces oil demand. Cheap oil is over, but oil will be around for a long time to come. Cheap oil has arguably been a negative because it's kept us from innovating better energy technologies and being frugal. Now that's going to change and this is a GOOD thing.

tojaktoty | 06-17-2008 03:35 AM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by MystryBox (Post 1149269) Cheap oil has arguably been a negative because it's kept us from innovating better energy technologies and being frugal. Now that's going to change and this is a GOOD thing.
This statement is illogical. Are you arguing that some central power ought to be responsible in manipulating markets and commodities so as to direct them towards frugality, ie an objective determined and enforced by a small select few? Either the relative pseudo free markets we have today in America have been and continue to be responsible for impersonally providing oil as an innovative energy source and will ensue with providing innovative alternatives to those whom demand it. Or the relatively pseudo free markets are the restraint on innovativeness. How can our pseudo market system, which has over time been forced to deal with greater amounts of government intervention, have, as you premise, restrained positive innovation in relation to the previous decades' energy sector yet be able to provide us with sufficient hope that innovation will be overly positive in the future and not stagnate against all the systematical impediments?

SilverSalmon | 06-17-2008 06:35 AM
Re: A slightly different take on collapse preps.... Quote:
Originally Posted by MystryBox (Post 1149269) Peak oil isn't the end of oil, it's the peak of the supply curve. It's only the end of cheap oil. From here supply will trail off which will increase prices but there are still decades of oil left. As prices rise other ways of getting oil that had previously been uneconomical (such as tar sands) become economical and add to the supply. Also as prices increase demand drops (e.g. SUV's are replaced with economy cars) and other means of generating energy become economical which also reduces oil demand. Cheap oil is over, but oil will be around for a long time to come. Cheap oil has arguably been a negative because it's kept us from innovating better energy technologies and being frugal. Now that's going to change and this is a GOOD thing.
I understand everything you're saying and more. However, you and most other people don't under the severity of the problem. It has nothing to do with the cost of oil and gas for transportation for me. The real Bitch about peakoil is FOOD PRODUCTION. It will led to the deaths of at least 1/3 of the population. Fertilizer, pesticides, and irrigation is all fossil fuel based. Plus transportation, refridgeration, packing, cooking. We're doomed, people have no idea about the enormity and scale of the problem. No idea. Transporation is nothing just wait until it hits food prices really hard. You will cry.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:08 AM. |
Page 2 of 2 | < | 1 | 2
Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright = None use it and Link to GIM