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artificial person | 10-02-2007 01:00 AM
Doug Casey-Argentina Read this article a few days ago. Casey really makes argentina sound like the place to go. Anyone been there? If so what were your impressions? Also what kind of money does one need to start investing in properties there? I'm thinking about $500,000. Here is the article Let me cover the big picture. I do think we're approaching the end of the world as we know it�I think there is such thing as the business cycle. It exists. And we've had the longest expansion - and the strongest expansion - in the world history. But we're at the end of a 25-year boom. It's gone on more than a full generation now. And I'll tell you how it's going to end: It's going to end with a depression, and not just a depression; not just another Great Depression; it's going to be the Greater Depression. What's a depression, incidentally? It's a period of time when distortions and misallocations of capital are liquidated; that's called a depression. Over the last 25 years, distortions and misallocations of capital have produced an artificial boom. But when these distortions and misallocations of capital are liquidated, we'll get a depression. Another general definition of a depression is this: a period of time when most people's standard of living goes down significantly. Now, for the long run, there's no question in my mind the standard of living of everybody on earth is going to go up immensely over the next hundred years. Immensely. But that doesn't mean that we're not going to have setbacks, and I think we're looking at one: A severe standard of living drop. So the economic picture is not going to be good� So what should you be doing about all this? I suggest you really internationalize yourself. I think what you ought to have is your citizenship in one country, your bank account in another country, your investments in a third, and live in a fourth. You've got to internationalize yourself. Most people out there are like medieval serfs, psychologically and physically: they're born some place, they don't go very far from it and that's where they die, and they're going to get exactly what they deserve. Well, you can't be that way. I think you ought to treat the world as your oyster. What am I doing about this? I've been all over the world. I guess I've lived in 12 countries now. And out of 175, I've been to most of them, numerous times actually. What am I doing, where do I want to go, where am I living? Well, in New Zealand. I went there a few years ago for the polo, actually, and the reason was that playing polo there was about 10% what it cost me in Palm Beach, and I liked it better. So we bought a lot of real estate. But since then, the currency has doubled and the real estate within that currency has doubled at least. So I'm getting out of New Zealand. Where am I going now? I'm going to Argentina. And let me give you a tip, okay? Forget about Europe, it's going to become a petting zoo. It's like Disneyland with real stones instead of paper Mache stones. I mean, Europe is on the slippery slope. I wouldn't touch Europe with a ten-foot pole. If this war with Islam gets out of control, Europe is going to be an epicenter. It's going to be a disaster. I'll tell you where you ought to look. Argentina is the place to be. It's the cheapest country in the world. It has low population, incredibly beautiful, the climate is great. One hundred years ago, it was in competition with the US for being the best place in the world and the richest place. But it went downhill radically, radically. But let me tell you something. It's turning around I think. And what's going to happen is driven by the fact that everything in Argentina costs between 10% to 30% of what it costs in North America. That's correct. It's that cheap. It's free. It's free. It's free for us as North Americans. But the Europeans really think it's free with that strong Euro. So you're getting a massive immigration from rich Europeans that can see the handwriting on the wall and like it down there. And I really like it down there. It's just a great society, great society, great place to hang out, prices are right. I mean this can solve most of your investment problems right there, just by transplanting yourself, if you've got some capital. Furthermore, Argentina is going to be insolated from WWIII to a good extent. Hope to see you down there!

Infidel | 10-02-2007 01:13 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Don't forget to write, you hear!? http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=54253 http://www.nicholsoncartoons.com.au/...20ALP%20.5.JPG

BeeYourself | 10-02-2007 06:18 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina They do make it sound great because they have a golf course to sell. It may be great in that little town eventually. But read a lot elsewhere because the currency collapsed a while back and its a mess and very dangerous at times.

momopanda | 10-02-2007 08:33 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina I didn't see it mentioned , but I think the name of the little community that Casey is building down there is called Cafayate, or it's near the small town of Cafayate or something , in Salta ,if anyone wants to google it. Golf course , vineyards , horses etc. Like minded libertarian type folk. Dunno though, if TSHTF in Argentina, I bet such a place, a community of rich Americans, would be a target for banditos or whatever. Not much else to do around the area maybe though. Sounds like an interesting place to have a retreat and such maybe, if you have the scratch.

Darkside | 10-02-2007 08:50 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Casey (Post 758930) Most people out there are like medieval serfs, psychologically and physically: they're born some place, they don't go very far from it and that's where they die, and they're going to get exactly what they deserve.
Well as a "medieval serf" let me tell you something, Doug. Do you think it's by choice that I or many others in my situation don't "go very far"? Hell I would love to visit as many countries as you but let me slap you in the face a bit with reality- we're not all filthy rich like you. Most of us have the typical low paying wage that deteriorates every year through inflation. We can barely afford to survive as it is now with our paychecks. So we can't all afford vacations to extravagant locations every month. And we don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting in our bank accounts just waiting for us to buy "a lot of real estate" in foreign countries. And then he has the nerve to say people like me "deserve" what is coming because, what? We weren't born into a wealthy family? We didn't catch an astronomically lucky break and win millions in a lotto-like stock purchase? I'm sorry but this guy is an ass.

artificial person | 10-02-2007 09:11 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Hey darkside, I noticed that as well. Actually I was going to ask about how rich the people he writes for are. I checked out his newsletter prices and they are pretty expensive. He has 6 or 7 and they are $300 a year each, on sale! So maybe this international investing is out of my league. People can say what they want about BOB CHapman but his newsletter is cheap for the volume and quality of writing that he does. Not to mention you can get it for free if you want, and he knows this. He's been pretty accurate as well. Anyway that paragraph makes Casey look like an A---hole.

oz in sc | 10-02-2007 10:20 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Here is a guy selling properties in Argentina: http://www.byronlutz.com/ I personally would look at Uruguay.

money matters | 10-02-2007 01:46 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina At least we will know where to find all the rotten bastards when the smoke clears and the auditors finish their work. Anybody who thinks they can jump out of their culture into another one with a different language and tradition is in for severe shock. Especially once the locals figure out that all you have is a ton of money and no family or friends to watch your back. Eventually, the locals figure out that you'll buy what they have, at any price. Money only holds out so long. Lots of traditions of bribery and wheel greasing in the lower americas. Have at it ex-patriots. Hope you resign your citizenship as well.

DogFarm | 10-02-2007 02:11 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Well, if you are single, try marrying into a family in your new homestead country. I suggest marrying a gal whose family is industrious and entrepreneurial. A friend of the family won the lotto when he married the daughter of one of the largest wineries in Chile. Didn't speak a word of Spanish. Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 759611) At least we will know where to find all the rotten bastards when the smoke clears and the auditors finish their work. Anybody who thinks they can jump out of their culture into another one with a different language and tradition is in for severe shock. Especially once the locals figure out that all you have is a ton of money and no family or friends to watch your back. Eventually, the locals figure out that you'll buy what they have, at any price. Money only holds out so long. Lots of traditions of bribery and wheel greasing in the lower americas. Have at it ex-patriots. Hope you resign your citizenship as well.

chewy | 10-02-2007 02:31 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Ho hum. Another north American, (money matters) expounding on life in Latin America whose probably never been there. Tell me about astrophysics now. The police in Chile are the most honest, professional and competent police I've ever seen. I've lived in 4 countries and visited 10. Do not EVER try to bribe a Carabinero in Chile. The level of corruption in the govt here is very low. Mostly because it is a decentralized weak govt. I know Americans may have a hard time understanding that since they have a nanny-state kleptocracy in the USA. It is quite lassaiz faire in Chile. It's closer to the Jeffersonian ideal than the USA. At this point in time there are more actual freedoms in Chile than the USA. Hard fact to accept. Get over it.

sam | 10-02-2007 03:27 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Many years ago when I had nothing, out of desperation I started subscribing to various "get rich" newsletters. Doug Casey's IS is the only one I still read. Although, today, I buy what Rick Rule's brokers reco, his and Casey's picks are often the same. The reason I stay with IS? I wanna know when Casey says the top is in for natural resource stocks. I have talked with Paul van Eeden many times when he was my broker, and Rick Rule on occasion. I have not spoken with Doug Casey but have exchanged a few e-mails. They are all accessible, stand-up guys. RR treated me like I was his most important client. BTW Doug Casey's subscribers are by and large not super wealthy, at least not when they first started. How do I know? Casey had a discussion group for a few years, .... remember that Large Sarge? dtnwn

money matters | 10-02-2007 05:01 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Chewy, I was down there long enough to learn how to think in espanol, not to think english then translate. My point was not about how gringos could buy there way to anything, more like a stranger in a strange land is easily separated from his money. Isn't money and preservation of same the main motivation for the expats? My perspective is, once there is no more USA, no more USA consulate, no more USA foreign aid, most foreigners will see expats as fair game. Watch CasaBlanca and consider all those "travellers" who were stuck and had to sell all they had to the local slimeballs in fez. "Money Matters ello no se". Verdad? I've been where the nacional policia brandish the machine pistol while walking the streets, where the highway checkpoints are covered by sandbagged 50cal machine gun squads. If you're the kind of guy who has no stake in America, then get the hell out. My family was here before there was a USA. We own firearms and know how to use them. Who do you bribe to get your firearms in on a non-resident visa? Who you gotta bribe to get citizenship? Unless you have family that boogeyed out of Germany in 1945 to one of the 'guays, you got no one to ally yourself with down there on the pampas. Got a couple million? Feel pretty rich? Think you can do more with it down there? Maybe you can, but for how long? The same game is going to transpire everywhere. There is such a thing as Home Field Advantage. Countrymen share a common bond and experience. Those pukes at the New Zealand polo club can turn on you in a heartbeat, but do it so politely that you'd wonder where the bus came from that ran you down. I think the game is way too advanced for moving anywhere, marrying into some family, and going native. You think you have 5 years to pull that off? I wouldn't give you odds on there being 5 more hours....

Riskfactor | 10-02-2007 05:54 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina me and my associates have travelled quite frequently for business and leisure, and i think money matters makes some valid points about cultural differences and having a social network to fall-back on. but with that said, people are people and there are good people all over the world. anyone with good social skills and a genuine desire to assimulate into a culture can succeed at it, it just takes some effort in developing the network of people and at the same time requires the patience to cultivate relationships like you would anywhere else. it also helps if you appreciate the culture of a certain region. if you're an American who is curious about Asian culture, you should seek expatriation in Asia, like the Philippines or Singapore for the more business-minded.

eyeofliberty | 10-02-2007 06:04 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Quote:
Originally Posted by artificial person (Post 759238) Hey darkside, I noticed that as well. Actually I was going to ask about how rich the people he writes for are. I checked out his newsletter prices and they are pretty expensive. He has 6 or 7 and they are $300 a year each, on sale! So maybe this international investing is out of my league.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam (Post 759728) BTW Doug Casey's subscribers are by and large not super wealthy, at least not when they first started. How do I know? Casey had a discussion group for a few years, .... remember that Large Sarge?
I am a Casey Research IS subscriber, and I am FAR from rich. It is the only hardcopy financial newsletter I subscribe to. Sam, I remember the discussion groups/forums on Casey Research, and miss them dearly. There was a good group there!

sam | 10-02-2007 06:31 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina eyeofliberty- Yup, good group. My handle was "lucky" on Caseys BB because the software rejected "sam" as too short, and "sammy" was already taken. dtnwn

eyeofliberty | 10-02-2007 07:02 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Quote:
Originally Posted by sam (Post 759942) eyeofliberty- Yup, good group. My handle was "lucky" on Caseys BB because the software rejected "sam" as too short, and "sammy" was already taken.
I can't remember my handle there, I think it was 'jwjones'.

sam | 10-02-2007 07:28 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina eyeofliberty- I remember, .... your handle was either that or something very similar .... There was a sailor (Blackbeard ?), there was a guy who made a bundle with oilys, before switching to PM, there was a guy moving his family to NZ, and a guy moving to China because his wife got a great job there. Best of luck to ya. Enough chat, or GIMers gonna go agro ....

GoldenPoet | 10-02-2007 08:30 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Quote:
Originally Posted by Riskfactor (Post 759903) anyone with good social skills and a genuine desire to assimulate into a culture can succeed at it, it just takes some effort in developing the network of people and at the same time requires the patience to cultivate relationships like you would anywhere else. it also helps if you appreciate the culture of a certain region.
Riskfactor, That is the truth. Pure and simple. If you approach others with goodwill, humility, respect, interest in them and an openness, many people will respond, no matter what country one goes to. Here I know ugly Americans that open their loudmouths and Im sure the locals would love nothing better than a chance to steal everything out from under them... then there are other people who come down and in a matter of a few months have many local Mexican friends and are beloved by the community... I will say, that more of the latter are people who buy small houses and join a neighborhood, or buy a lot and get to know the locals by building, rather than buying a condo. Doing a little bit of local charity also gets one big points. I just had a discussion today about how WTSHTF here, there won't be so much dissapointed high expectations, and will be much less violence. I have to admit though, If and when I tear myself away from here, it will be to go further south, as Chewy says, Chile looks great, as parts of Ecuador, Panama, Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina do. I am going from expat to exile come Jan when USA citizens need permission to leave the USA from the Police state, and I consider it impossible to return there safely. I hope the people who are deciding to stay are prepping well and not conflicted about it. However, if you stay for lack of funds to leave, well If you want to know just how cheap leaving can be, PM me. Good luck to everyone, those who stay, those who leave, and those who are perpetual country jumpers-wanderers. Thats what I want to be.

Unclad Lad | 10-03-2007 01:13 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Chewy says: Quote:
It is quite lassaiz faire in Chile. It's closer to the Jeffersonian ideal than the USA. At this point in time there are more actual freedoms in Chile than the USA.
What about gun regulations?

eyeofliberty | 10-03-2007 01:43 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Quote:
Originally Posted by sam (Post 760026) There was a sailor (Blackbeard ?), there was a guy who made a bundle with oilys, before switching to PM, there was a guy moving his family to NZ, and a guy moving to China because his wife got a great job there.
I remember 3 outta 4: Blackbeard, NZ, and China. Do you remember the lady, I think she was in N. Carolina mountains, what was her name? I was bummed when they closed the forums, as I would be if GIM ever closed.

RiverRat | 10-03-2007 06:17 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina :rolleyes_m: Yep...move right on down there to SA and experience the poverty,corruption,illiteracy,drug cartels,low life political hacks,private armies,corrupt cops,and about a thousand more cultural differences we won't even mention. Casey has mucho dinero...he will live like a king in his private kingdom isolated like the rest of the ruthless native royalty who exploit their fellow countrymen like serfs. J6P ? They don't like stinking gringos period. They love the money,but hate you for what you stand for and where you were born...racism is an alien concept to most of them. They hate everybody except their immediate social class which is either filthy rich or on the soon to be extinction list. The poverty in some areas of SA is so appalling it makes New Orleans post Katrina look like a paradise. You haven't saw crap my fellow Americans,until you see entire families with children living in cardboard shipping boxes in back alleys of the cities that ignore them like invisible garbage. And...if they all die of starvation they will be swept up with the garbage. Truth is...? Most Americans have no concept of how other countries and cultures live except what they read in magazines,travel brochures,or see on the MSM while they munch on Doritos and watch American Idol. Not saying you wouldn't love living there...it's just a different world. Be prepared for a drastic attitude change...America it's not. :bear_w00t::bear_w00t:

oz in sc | 10-03-2007 09:32 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Uruguay is 97% European. Uruguay ranks 6th in the world in the Environmental Sustainability Index. Literacy rate of over 97%. Here was a nice little vineyards that has unfortunately sold: http://www.uruguayland.com/sauce.htm I started out thinking of South america as, well like in that Woody Allen movie,totally corrupt and basically a Banana Republic. I think that might be the case in some places but not all.

sam | 10-03-2007 10:53 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina AP- Where did you get that article? I just read the excerpt you posted. Yes, the content is a match, but the writing style is not at all like the Doug Casey expositions that I have been reading for the past dozen years. The grammar, vocabulary, and style of the entire piece, leads me to suspect that it was not written by Casey. (A curious situation, I admit. Why would someone forge a Casey essay?) Long time Casey subscribers: What do you think? dtnwn

sam | 10-03-2007 05:58 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina eol- Yes, I remember the lady from NC, but don't remember her handle. dtnwn

chewy | 10-03-2007 09:03 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters (Post 759858) Chewy, I was down there long enough to learn how to think in espanol, not to think english then translate. My point was not about how gringos could buy there way to anything, more like a stranger in a strange land is easily separated from his money. Isn't money and preservation of same the main motivation for the expats? My perspective is, once there is no more USA, no more USA consulate, no more USA foreign aid, most foreigners will see expats as fair game. Watch CasaBlanca and consider all those "travellers" who were stuck and had to sell all they had to the local slimeballs in fez. "Money Matters ello no se". Verdad? I've been where the nacional policia brandish the machine pistol while walking the streets, where the highway checkpoints are covered by sandbagged 50cal machine gun squads. If you're the kind of guy who has no stake in America, then get the hell out. My family was here before there was a USA. We own firearms and know how to use them. Who do you bribe to get your firearms in on a non-resident visa? Who you gotta bribe to get citizenship? Unless you have family that boogeyed out of Germany in 1945 to one of the 'guays, you got no one to ally yourself with down there on the pampas. Got a couple million? Feel pretty rich? Think you can do more with it down there? Maybe you can, but for how long? The same game is going to transpire everywhere. There is such a thing as Home Field Advantage. Countrymen share a common bond and experience. Those pukes at the New Zealand polo club can turn on you in a heartbeat, but do it so politely that you'd wonder where the bus came from that ran you down. I think the game is way too advanced for moving anywhere, marrying into some family, and going native. You think you have 5 years to pull that off? I wouldn't give you odds on there being 5 more hours....
Why do I bother? Yes you're right. Everything south of the Rio Grande is bad, bad, bad, mud huts, grinding poverty. It's ALL just like Mexico as far as the eye can see, all the way to the south pole. Wasteland. :sarc: Can't we all just get along.

cigarlover | 10-04-2007 11:46 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina I havent been to SA but have traveled extensively throughout the world. The poorest country I have been to is by far Cuba. The Philippines had sections that were similar but not the same.. I have spent a lot of time in Cuba and when you see what you can really live without it does make a big impact on you.. It did on me anyway. My consumerism pretty much stopped immediately except for cigars LOL.. I will be visiting central and south America in January and February. I am not rich either but unfortunately people dont know how to live frugally so they can afford to travel. I do without many things throughout the year so I can take my long vacations and see the world. Theres a lot more out there than the US. I think others have said it already but I will reiterate it. You can easily integrate into a community if you try. Get to know the locals. See what thier concerns are and make them yours as well. Give up some of your time to help a neighbor. Show concern for the neighbors family and friends and before long you are one of them and it doesnt matter where you are from. It also doent cost anything to do. If you live like they do then you are one of them. If you think you will go there build a MCMansion and live like a king and be accepted, you may be wrong. You can live in a simple home, have some land and have comfortable furnishings and still be a part of the community. If you go scooting around in your beeemer than yes you may be a target. Drive a practicle vehicle and you are one of them.. Nothing wrong with having a large bank account and living a frugal life so it lasts.

Goldeneye | 10-08-2007 01:33 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina I've been a subscriber of IS and ES for a couple of years now, plus Big Gold.. I too miss the forum , and stopped my subscription for a while in 'protest' ! For the most part, Doug has now handed over the reigns to David Galland.. I have found the whole Casey team to be helpful, honest and with integrity.... David Galland often responds personally to my e-mails and queries, and it is done promptly... They put a lot of work and effort into their newsletters especially IS.. It's not unusual to recieve between 40 and 60 pages in their monthly updates plus more info that they post thru the month.. The International Speculator newsletter stands streets ahead of it's peers.. I also subscribe to Jim Dines TDL and Lawrence Roulstons Resource Opportunities... I have read comments where some seem to think you have to be rich to subscribe.. I on the other hand believe just one good stock pick pays for a lifetime of subscriptions and some !! Cheers Goldeneye Your health is your greatest Asset

artificial person | 10-08-2007 10:34 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Thanks for the info, very useful. Does the IS talk about real estate, where to buy property, lifestyles, etc ?

sam | 10-08-2007 11:45 AM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina ap- At or near the top of the last gold bull, DC said sell your gold stocks, and for years nearly all he wrote about was his recent travels, and global investment opportunities in real estate. Now the situation is reversed. I believe DC has lightened up on his investment real estate holdings over the last few years. Now the main topic of IS is gold stocks (juniors). There is, however, a new DC publication "Without Borders". I don't subscribe, but it sounds like it will cover your topics of interest. dtnwn

Goldeneye | 10-08-2007 12:22 PM
Re: Doug Casey-Argentina Quote:
Originally Posted by artificial person (Post 767960) Thanks for the info, very useful. Does the IS talk about real estate, where to buy property, lifestyles, etc ?
They do 'occasionally' talk about real estate from time to time.. Eg: Doug mentioned that he had bought property in NZ when it was at a low and sold it, I believe last year ... He occasionally mentions places around the world that would be good to hang out for a few years 'if' TSHTF... The property they are developing in Argentina is ... http://www.cafayateliving.com:80/ I was considering the possibility, the design of the development is pretty cool, the lots are large and each street overlooks a fields of vines.. You get a % of the wine harvest... My big 'against' is that it seems to be geared up for those that love horses and Polo, there are stables and a polo field both of which are not my bag.. I'm sure it's going to attract some pretencious types.. Cheers Goldeneye

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