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- - K-1, clear vs. w/red die... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=428878)

Stealinator | 12-02-2009 04:49 PM
K-1, clear vs. w/red die... Need to get a 110 gal tank filled. All the trucks around my area only sell/deliver kerosene with the red die added ( to avoid road tax, from what I heard) Had a friend say as long as it is kerosene and not (A2? heating fuel) then its no problem, the die is only food coloring and will not add smoke/smell. I am going to look around at service stations that sell K-1 and see if I can find one with die added, to test it out. Is about a dollar a gallon cheaper than clear K-1. Anyone have any experiance burning kerosene with the die added? any problems? thanks in advance. This is part of our preps, may not use much at all now, just in case. note: will be burned in a portable kerosene heater. thanksbancha

dupontcobb | 12-02-2009 09:22 PM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... I have no problem burning kero with the die added (monitor and portable kero heaters).

Government Chee-tos | 12-02-2009 11:46 PM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... Should work fine. Be sure not to burn it in any road vehicles--Several thousand dollar fine if caught in my state. I know two people who were pulled over randomly and checked for this.

eat_beef | 12-03-2009 12:03 AM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... You should be fine w/ the heater, but as said above, don't run it on the road. I think it's 50k in Texas now.

Osprey550 | 12-03-2009 06:13 PM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... The red dyed kero burns fine in our heaters. We have been using it for a number of years.

Twisted Avatar | 12-03-2009 06:47 PM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... Quote:
Originally Posted by Government Chee-tos (Post 2056909) Should work fine. Be sure not to burn it in any road vehicles--Several thousand dollar fine if caught in my state. I know two people who were pulled over randomly and checked for this.
How the bloody hell would they know??? Can you give a slight synopsis as to how your friend got caught??? I have never heard of anything like this before. T

dupontcobb | 12-03-2009 06:50 PM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... TA, I heard this happened with truckers. They would be pulled over (or they would be checked at weigh stations) and fuel would be taken out of the tank. If they had red dye in the tanks, they were busted. Edit: I dont know how possible it is to mix the fuel so that the red dye would get clearer. Havent tried that yet.

dupontcobb | 12-03-2009 06:57 PM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... Jun. 22--FRANKLIN -- When agents from the Ohio Department of Taxation conduct a traffic stop, they better not see red -- at least in the tank of a diesel vehicle driven on the road. If they do, it could lead to a hefty fine or even jail time. The agents were in Franklin Wednesday to check the tanks of diesel vehicles on Ohio 123 to ensure they were not burning the red-dyed fuel reserved or off-road use. "We have done six of them this year," said Gary Gudmundson, taxation department spokesman. "We usually average two or three violators each time." He said the department initiated the checkpoint program a few years ago to "encourage compliance." While the program has nothing to do with the skyrocketing price of fuel, including diesel, Gudmundson agrees the temptation for abuse increases with prices. Construction and agricultural equipment, as well as some other off-road vehicles, can be operated on diesel fuel without federal and state taxation. The fuel is treated with a red dye that makes it easy to spot if used in an ineligible vehicle. "Clear" or regular fuel is taxed 28 cents by the state and 24.4 cents by the federal government. The taxes are used to maintain and build roads and highways, according to Gudmundson. As of Wednesday afternoon, Middletown area diesel fuel prices at the pump ranged from $2.79 to $2.99. Area farmers often store hundreds of gallons of diesel fuel in tanks on their land but the color doesn't matter to thieves. "Some have even talked about not having the tank so close to the house for fear of the family's safety," said Bonnie Norris, Ohio State University Extension agent in Preble County. "And any time they leave a piece of equipment in the fields overnight, they stand a chance of siphoning." Tom McQuiston, a Camden area farmer and a former Preble County Commissioner, said he has a 500-gallon tank of diesel that he "watches pretty closely" but he said he has not had a problem with theft. "Most farmers are pretty versed about what they can use the red-colored fuel for and it's a pretty big penalty for using it the wrong way," McQuiston said. Todd Cottingim, also a Camden area farmer and a former county commissioner, said he paid $2.30 a gallon in the spring to fill his 275-gallon tank. He will have to fill it again in the fall. "We haven't seen any theft. But the prices are increasing and that will affect the bottom line," Cottingim said. "The price of diesel, taxed or not, keeps going up." Harvestland delivers fuel to farmers and construction sites in a seven-county area, including Butler and Preble counties. Manager Dave Lee said he knows people who have gotten caught improperly using dyed fuel and he has heard about thefts. "But I tell you, the red color throws the average person off. They think it is special kind of diesel. And it is a little different grade, but most diesel engines in all vehicles will run on it," Lee said. "Except for the Fords, it will shut the engine down eventually. Lee and Gudmundson said the fine for abuse of "red diesel" is enough to stop most. It is a first-degree misdemeanor that carries a possible jail sentence of up to six months and a $1,000 fine. And if you abuse it after stealing it, that ups the ante. VEHICLES THAT CAN LEGALLY USE RED-DYED DIESEL FUEL IN OHIO: --Agricultural equipment --Construction equipment including bulldozers, backhoes, graders and earthmovers --Logging equipment --Trenching machines --Industrial forklifts --Lawn tractors ----- To see more of the Middletown Journal, or to subscribe to the newspaper, go to http://www.middletown.com. Copyright (c) 2006, Middletown Journal, Ohio http://www.redorbit.com/news/busines...red/index.html

ruprick | 12-03-2009 07:04 PM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... I've burned hundreds of gallons of red and clear in everything from 10,000 BTU Kerosuns to 300,000 BTU "Salamanders". No smell, no performance difference between the two. I have a few hundred gallons of both stocked away in 55 gal drums. Last forever if sealed tight.

eat_beef | 12-03-2009 07:37 PM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... They don't just dip out some fuel, they have a stick (think litmus paper) that pics up trace amounts. I've heard they can catch it if you mixed red to clear 1:1000, but who knows if that's real or cop talk. They did a sting at a cattle auction several years ago and caught a pile of guys. But the fine was so high (I heard 20k), that someone hired a lawyer and they all ended up getting off. Apparently, it's not quite legal to check private vehicles on private property without permission.:moon:

hoarder | 12-03-2009 08:28 PM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... I bet a lot of people have hidden fuel tanks on their trucks. If it was pumped in by way of 3/8 plastic tubing no filler cap would be needed, just an atmospheric vent.

TTAZZMAN | 12-03-2009 11:28 PM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... i have seen DOT ---department of transportation go through parking lots at for example a rodeo and pull samples from diesel pickups etc...stock yards...anyplace that might have a high number of diesel vehicles what most dont understand is you can buy and use clear diesel and then apply for a tax refund for the road tax .....this way you can fill your farm tank with clear and get the tax difference back and not ever have to worry about it. its a easier way to cheat if a person is going to cheat ....just apply for the tax refund but use the fuel on the road.

Unclad Lad | 12-03-2009 11:51 PM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... TTazz, can you elaborate about the tax refund?

Government Chee-tos | 12-04-2009 12:07 AM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 2058248) How the bloody hell would they know??? Can you give a slight synopsis as to how your friend got caught??? I have never heard of anything like this before. T
My friends didn't get caught, just pulled over and checked. From what I remember they said the cop stuck something down the filler neck.

SAUM | 12-04-2009 12:33 AM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... It's just a straw. Stick the straw in the tank, cover end with finger to create vacuum, draw straw back from tank, look for red.

eat_beef | 12-04-2009 09:54 AM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... TTAZZ- As you go through the state to get the permits/paperwork, I always thought it varied state to state. Can you do that in all 50? BTW, for those of you who are thinking about it...it's a fairly in depth process, you have to prove that you're using it for an approved reason (ag in my case). It's not like you can drive up to the pump and get died fuel, you must have the proper 'papers' on file with the fuel company...at least that's how it works in Texas. BTW, I'm talking about diesel...none of our kerosene is dyed, neither is it taxed.

Tn...Andy | 12-04-2009 10:17 AM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... That's interesting.....because here, you CAN drive up to the pump and get dyed diesel.....in fact, at the local Co-op, if you're not careful to read the pump, you could easily pump dyed fuel in by simply picking the wrong hose....both pumps are on the same island....along with gasoline. If I go to a fuel distributor, they simply ask which one you want in your barrels, and don't care which.

hoarder | 12-04-2009 10:57 AM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... Here too. The local filling station sells red dyed diesel. I've heard revenuers hide at a distance with binoculars to see if you put it in a drum, or a trailer loaded dozer on in a pickup gas tank while looking over your shoulder. Then they follow and stop the pickup. I haven't found any kerosene yet.

TTAZZMAN | 12-05-2009 12:15 AM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... I own a construction company.....we keep a diesel fuel tank for our equipment we buy bulk clear diesel .....we fill our road trucks and non road equipment from the same tank we turn in a estimated amount to our accountant every year and he files a form and we get the road tax amount back for what we use in the non-road equipment i also have intrests in another earth moving company and it/we also do that for that company i just have red diesel delivered to the farm to save the hastle we are in the state of missouri i have no clue about other states i will have to ask the accountant what form he fills out to get the road tax refund Edit ....i googled it....the missouri form is #4923 and it works for either Gas or Diesel......i havent ever done it but you could get a refund on gasoline if you had for example a Gas powered...tractor,boat,atv etc http://dor.mo.gov/tax/business/fuel/forms/4923f.pdf...also in missouri you have to have this form on file http://dor.mo.gov/tax/business/fuel/forms/4924.pdf i guess my point is....if your gona cheat.....that is the better way to avoid fines etc.

low_five | 12-05-2009 12:58 AM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... We go down to the fuel pier and say we are buying fuel for the [insert random ficticious fishing vessel name here] and load up 55 gallon drums and burn it for home heating fuel and road fuel. no tax or die.

scyth | 12-05-2009 01:16 AM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... low five - You are cruisin' for a bruisin', there. A friend of mine runs a fishboat, got To running fishboat diesel in all his rigs. Got busted, don't know how. Now he owes more in fines than The diesel ever cost. isher

low_five | 12-05-2009 01:18 AM
Re: K-1, clear vs. w/red die... now you got me paranoid. Ill be good for a while now.

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