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shades2 | 10-02-2007 08:17 AM
Bad day at the range 2 Attachment(s) Went to the range the other day with the Glock 34 9mm, and I was hopeless. I just seemed to be chasing the bullseye all the time. I hadn't been for about 3 weeks. Here are some of my better targets, shot at 12 yards or 11 metres. I'm capable of pretty good accuracy, why do I have these off days, and how can I prepare before a shoot to shoot better? One thing I kind of suspect was my grip and sighting, my grip just felt rubbish, I was flinching quite a bit, and I didn't close my left properly as I usually do. How can I achieve some consistency in my shooting?? Is range time the only solution?

Wyldwil | 10-02-2007 08:23 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Breathe before each shot. Breathing is HUGE, IMO.... Play around with which eye is kept closed. Focus on front sight. Practice "squeezing" dry-fire and live rounds. ("Anticipation" was a huge hurdle for me.) Those are some things I work on. Just shooting more helps. It's hard to get much better just occasionally going to the range. Believe it or not, you're probably on par with most cops I know. Going to the range is like a chore to most of them.

shades2 | 10-02-2007 08:36 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyldwil (Post 759174) Breathe before each shot. Breathing is HUGE, IMO.... Play around with which eye is kept closed. Focus on front sight. Practice "squeezing" dry-fire and live rounds. ("Anticipation" was a huge hurdle for me.) Those are some things I work on. Just shooting more helps. It's hard to get much better just occasionally going to the range. Believe it or not, you're probably on par with most cops I know. Going to the range is like a chore to most of them.
You're probably right about the breathing, it's not really the breathing itself I find, so much as the fact that you are focused at that point for each shot, and concentrating on all the other factors, and prepared to accept the noise and recoil. The other day I kind of felt myself doing everything wrong, so I left the range early as I realised it probably wasn't going to get much better that day, and I don't believe in encouraging a bad shooting habit. I think I need to fully run through my checklist before shooting. Stance, breathing, grip, arm position, left eye squint, looking down the sight and not crouching, focusing on front sight when taking the shot, using just finger tip, holding gun steady while squeezing the trigger, and not anticipating the bang/recoil. I try to shoot slow fire, but sometimes I challenge myself to speed up a bit and accuracy suffers. When I see the pros shooting those metal targets rapidly I'm just amazed, but I guess they have shot thousands upon thousands of rounds to get to that ability, as there is just no way you could sight every shot up.

TLM | 10-02-2007 08:46 AM
Re: Bad day at the range If you are shooting large two legged mammals, that's accurate enough.

shades2 | 10-02-2007 09:08 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Quote:
Originally Posted by TLM (Post 759205) If you are shooting large two legged mammals, that's accurate enough.
Sure, but I also plan to compete eventually, as I'm a target shooter and this is one of my sports. Those targets are from a 'good day', not my bad day's targets which I was so disgusted with, that I didn't keep.

electric-amish | 10-02-2007 09:11 AM
Re: Bad day at the range I will try to shoot in my own abilities. What this means to me is when I start to fade or make mistakes that I know I shouldn't I quit for the day. The reason I stop for the session when I deteriorate is I do not want to ingrain bad habits. I think you did the right thing after you saw what was happening. Last month I got my first Pistol and have been shooting only the closer distances. I want to get all shoots in the bulls eye before going back another 5 yards. I think this will take me thousands of rounds. But, by the time I'm shooting at targets far back I should be able to hit them. The thing that surprises me is the difference in my friends Clock and my M&P. I shoot his better but my elbow and hand take a jarring so I am unable to shoot his as long before deterioration begins. Electric-Amish

shades2 | 10-02-2007 09:40 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 759237) I will try to shoot in my own abilities. What this means to me is when I start to fade or make mistakes that I know I shouldn't I quit for the day. The reason I stop for the session when I deteriorate is I do not want to ingrain bad habits. I think you did the right thing after you saw what was happening. Last month I got my first Pistol and have been shooting only the closer distances. I want to get all shoots in the bulls eye before going back another 5 yards. I think this will take me thousands of rounds. But, by the time I'm shooting at targets far back I should be able to hit them. The thing that surprises me is the difference in my friends Clock and my M&P. I shoot his better but my elbow and hand take a jarring so I am unable to shoot his as long before deterioration begins. Electric-Amish
Are these .40's or .45s? I found the 1911A1 .45 would definiately jar your hand, leave a twinge and of course always tried to muzzle flip lots. Steel frame will do that, polymer frames are meant to be better at reducing felt or transferred recoil. They have spent a bit of time examining the Glock, and have designed good interchangeable grips for the M&P, so I'm not too surprised that felt recoil is better handled. The grips although functional, do look ugly though. I found the Glock .40 with +P would muzzle flip a lot, and was a challenge to control.

MOD1 | 10-02-2007 10:00 AM
Re: Bad day at the range All have given good advice. Dry firing at home sure helps. Especially with a Glock - a small slide pull is all that is required to reset the trigger. Have a person spot you while you are shooting. A .22 rf pistol helped me greatly (inexpensively) before I purchased a centerfire pistol. Take care, Mod1

Anty Ep | 10-02-2007 10:21 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Quote:
Originally Posted by shades2 (Post 759170) How can I achieve some consistency in my shooting?? Is range time the only solution?
wil is right, dry fire. get some snap caps so you dont worry about your firing pin wearing down. load them up and snap snap snap. Its easier to practice this with a revolver, since you can do it over and over and over again. for a glock here is a good exercise since its got a square slide: put a coin on the end and dry fire it with your eyes closed a few times. that will get you squeezing the trigger evenly. then open up and do it a few hundred times more. back when I was in grad school, instead of studying I used to sit dry firing a revolver with snap caps in it watching tv, for hours. instead of studying that is. good practice but you cant do this if you live with somebody or they will think you are crazy. LOL back then I was an aimless youth and a "bachelor"

REV127 | 10-02-2007 10:30 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Those low hits look like flinch off, I'll support the dryfire suggestion. Some days it just doesn't come together though. If you want to reduce recoil look at a heavier recoil spring or a gun with a lower bore axis and better ergonomics. Compared to my friend's Glock 17 my steel frame CZ has a third less recoil.

Anty Ep | 10-02-2007 10:34 AM
Re: Bad day at the range and lay off the coffee and diet pills. LOL CZ has fantastic ergonomics, just love to hold em.

shades2 | 10-02-2007 10:43 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 759346) Those low hits look like flinch off, I'll support the dryfire suggestion. Some days it just doesn't come together though. If you want to reduce recoil look at a heavier recoil spring or a gun with a lower bore axis and better ergonomics. Compared to my friend's Glock 17 my steel frame CZ has a third less recoil.
Thanks. The 9mm recoil is manageable, the problem is the bit between me aiming and pulling the trigger. :D Looks like a lot of dry-firing is in order. :/ Boring!

shades2 | 10-02-2007 10:46 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Yeah, coffee/caffeine gives me the shakes bad, and the withdrawl symptoms.. ugh... I only drink the stuff in emergencies, and even then, it often has the opposite effect, and can send me off to sleep! I find it is also usually good to also go to the range after having a light lunch, and hydrated, my subconcious is not also thinking about food in the background which allows for more focus on task. I'm not usually a creature of habit and precise preparation, but I think I'll have to change that a bit if I want accurate range time.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 10-02-2007 10:51 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Anty beat me to it, but I was going to suggest mixing in some Snap Caps. I'll mix a few in with live rounds when loading magazines on the line, but without looking. That way, I'm not completely sure what I'll get when a pull the trigger: "click" or BANG. It's been useful because with the Snap Caps I caught myself flinching a little, and have since corrected the problem, improving my accuracy.

shades2 | 10-02-2007 10:52 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Quote:
Originally Posted by Hivemindgammahydra7 (Post 759373) Anty beat me to it, but I was going to suggest mixing in some Snap Caps. I'll load mix a few in with live rounds when loading on the line, but without looking. That way, I'm not completely sure what I'll get when a pull the trigger: "click" or BANG. It's been useful because with the Snap Caps I caught myself flinching a little, and have since corrected the problem, improving my accuracy.
Good advice, thanks! I might get someone else to load for me, as I often have a shooting buddy along.

Ghost Recon | 10-02-2007 10:56 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Look at the bright side....the bad guy would still be dead even on your worst day....

sam | 10-02-2007 10:56 AM
Re: Bad day at the range How to shoot a handgun accurately

shades2 | 10-02-2007 11:29 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Recon (Post 759379) Look at the bright side....the bad guy would still be dead even on your worst day....
Perhaps... but in the real world, the bad guy is moving around, ducking behind cover and shooting back... if he has any sense... That is a totally different kind of shooting drill, than on a stationary paper target.

shades2 | 10-02-2007 11:36 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Quote:
Originally Posted by sam (Post 759380) How to shoot a handgun accurately
Thanks sam. I think in addition to dry-firing, I might also try the up close shooting method, then gradually move the target back. That might be a very good drill for accuracy too.

sam | 10-02-2007 12:10 PM
Re: Bad day at the range shades2- Glock 34 huh? Well, I don't know if Hogue makes full size soft rubber grips for that gun, prolly not. At least try a slip-on grip. I'll bet it helps a lot. dtnwn

money matters | 10-02-2007 01:37 PM
Re: Bad day at the range Sounds more like you need to work on your grip and stance. Weight forward, (if right handed) putting forward pressure with your right hand/arm, pulling in with your left. Jeff Cooper wrote many articles about proper stance and grip for controlling a handgun. Have to learn to go with the guns movement to some degree. A .45acp should not be difficult to control once you shoot it a bit. Try shooting mid-range or target loads and then move up to full-power. Try some indoor ranges and see if they have range-reloads for sale. Then again, unless you aspire to be a true pistolero, spend some time with your shotgun and rifle, they will hit with more authority and allow you to be well removed from the action.

electric-amish | 10-02-2007 08:35 PM
Re: Bad day at the range Quote:
Originally Posted by shades2 (Post 759276) Are these .40's or .45s? I found the 1911A1 .45 would definiately jar your hand, leave a twinge and of course always tried to muzzle flip lots. Steel frame will do that, polymer frames are meant to be better at reducing felt or transferred recoil. They have spent a bit of time examining the Glock, and have designed good interchangeable grips for the M&P, so I'm not too surprised that felt recoil is better handled. The grips although functional, do look ugly though. I found the Glock .40 with +P would muzzle flip a lot, and was a challenge to control.
My friends Glock 22 in .40 and my MP in .40. Two different experiences after about 75 rounds. I shoot with the biggest back strap. It isn't because of huge hands though. I have heard how snappy the 40s recoil is and I wanted to spread out the impact over a bigger surface. I have become used to the feel of it and like it more now than the medium or thin back straps. So after shooting and getting jarred of recoild for about 75 with his I quit. My MP I shoot 150 without that same feeling and no impact wear to speak of. I still shoot his better though and it makes me kind of crazy! E-A

blueice | 10-02-2007 08:45 PM
Re: Bad day at the range Master Shades, those look like my portfolio returns.....

SilverCity | 10-02-2007 09:07 PM
Re: Bad day at the range Shades, Remember to lock your wrist and pull not stab trigger.

KASHMAN02 | 10-02-2007 09:32 PM
Re: Bad day at the range Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyldwil (Post 759174) Breathe before each shot. Breathing is HUGE, IMO.... Play around with which eye is kept closed. Focus on front sight. Practice "squeezing" dry-fire and live rounds. ("Anticipation" was a huge hurdle for me.) Those are some things I work on. Just shooting more helps. It's hard to get much better just occasionally going to the range. Believe it or not, you're probably on par with most cops I know. Going to the range is like a chore to most of them.
You are not practicing breathing when defending yourself, it is a highly stressfull situation, you need to keep shooting freeform, without the eye closed, use your instinct, point and shoot, that is what the real action is, you dont have time to breath and close one eye to aim, if you do your dead.

wallew | 10-03-2007 02:52 PM
Re: Bad day at the range YOU THINK YOU HAD A BAD DAY AT THE RANGE??? Read before watching video This is incredible. It almost made the Darwin Awards. The guy is shooting an AR-50. Watch the dust when he fires. The target, a steel plate, was 100 yards away. You can hear the ping of the hit, then the bullet comes back and hits his earmuffs on his head. The footage is amazing. You can hear the bullet as it tumbles through the air on its course back toward the shooter. He's lucky it hit the dirt first. He is okay, and obviously very lucky. The bullet grazed his temple. What a difference a half an inch makes! YouTube - Guy hit in head with .50 caliber ricochet
YouTube - Guy hit in head with .50 caliber ricochet

shades2 | 10-04-2007 08:55 AM
Re: Bad day at the range I'm just wondering how many +P rounds it will take, before my Glock barrel burns out. :D

Anty Ep | 10-04-2007 09:10 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Quote:
Originally Posted by shades2 (Post 762370) I'm just wondering how many +P rounds it will take, before my Glock barrel burns out. :D
ha, a lot is the answer to that. fan freakin tastic those barrels are

Anty Ep | 10-04-2007 09:11 AM
Re: Bad day at the range Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 761253) ....... He's lucky it hit the dirt first. He is okay, and obviously very lucky. The bullet grazed his temple. What a difference a half an inch makes! YouTube - Guy hit in head with .50 caliber ricochet
holy crap, I guess 100 is close with a fifty. LOL thanks, if I ever hear that sound I will grab the grass fast if it had hit him in the eyeball it would have blown it out or embedded in his socket

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