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- - Infra Red (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=349376)

Raven | 02-14-2009 04:15 PM
Infra Red Just wondering....do 'space blankets' or such stuff hide a heat signature if the body is fully covered with it? It there anything that does cover a heat signature?

electric-amish | 02-14-2009 04:35 PM
Re: Infra Red I would like to hear opinions on this as well. E-A

mayhem | 02-14-2009 04:46 PM
Re: Infra Red I do know that being wrapped in one gets real hot inside. That said I would assume it would.

Raven | 02-14-2009 04:49 PM
Re: Infra Red Well, the thought is that the blanket is super efficient for trapping body heat in order to stay warm. If the heat is trapped it is not 'radiant'. But I don't know. That's why I'm asking.

Hugo Chavez | 02-14-2009 04:49 PM
Re: Infra Red I have wondered this myself in the context of would wrapping myself make me less visible or invisible to so-called night vision? As cheap as they are these blankets would be good to have in a bug out pack.

mayhem | 02-14-2009 04:56 PM
Re: Infra Red Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo Chavez (Post 1570338) I have wondered this myself in the context of would wrapping myself make me less visible or invisible to so-called night vision? As cheap as they are these blankets would be good to have in a bug out pack.
There are real cheep'os and there are good ones. I have a couple dozen cheap ones and a half dozen good ones. Here are some cheep'os. 4 for $8.00 http://www.sportsmansguide.com/searc...arch&c=&ipp=48 Good ones. http://www.rei.com/product/407106

Bx3 | 02-14-2009 05:22 PM
Re: Infra Red While a space blanket might wash out the outline of your body, your heat will still transfer to the blanket making the blanket warmer which will increase the heat signature of the blanket. Depending on your other surroundings, this may give you an edge and it may not, ie..possible urban environment maybe. In the wilderness, not so much. Think of it like an IR ghillie suit, it will break up your body shape/outline but if it is not properly matched to the surrounding colors or in this case temperatures, you will still stand out like a sore thumb. Unlike in the movies, the majority of IR (like close to 99%) can not see through walls and believe it or not has a very hard time seeing through windows too. The only major advantage to scoping a building with IR is that if a particular room is occupied as apposed to the rest of the building, you may get a better signature from the walls/roof. This is still mostly inconclusive though. Bottom line is that if you are out in the open you will be seen (unless it is during one of the two IR crossover periods which occur most days).

Glass | 02-14-2009 06:28 PM
Re: Infra Red I remember those masters of scientific investigation the Mythbusters did a segment on getting past an infra red security system. They got by it with one of those firesuits, an Highly insulated proximity firesuit. Quote:
A heat detector can be fooled by wearing a highly insulated fire proximity suit. confirmed The suit blocked the body heat, preventing the sensor from seeing the wearer. However a small breach in the suit triggered the sensor when pointed towards it.
Link...

Bx3 | 02-14-2009 09:55 PM
Re: Infra Red Interesting about the fire suite, I must have missed that one. Comparing a security sensor with IR surveillance equipment might be apples and oranges however.

Canadian-guerilla | 02-14-2009 10:11 PM
Re: Infra Red if you're outside and staying in one spot using the space blanket make a small canopy, about 6 ft high the space blanket canopy may stop any infra red devices from "seeing" your body

Bx3 | 02-14-2009 10:44 PM
Re: Infra Red Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 1570752) if you're outside and staying in one spot using the space blanket make a small canopy, about 6 ft high the space blanket canopy may stop any infra red devices from "seeing" your body
Agreed. As long as you can minimize the radiant heat from your body transfering to the blanket, you should be good. Any earthen materials like trees, vegetation, dirt.....will also help exponentially. From past SAR experience, looking for a heat source in the woods is all but an effort in futility.

Bx3 | 02-15-2009 08:29 PM
Re: Infra Red http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/ coincidentally, this has a really good article on IR just posted today.

Canadian-guerilla | 02-15-2009 09:38 PM
Re: Infra Red looks like 8 pages of info, anyway to get this in text form ?

Bx3 | 02-15-2009 10:43 PM
Re: Infra Red I tried to copy and paste but they want you to join (free). I read it directly from the sight instead and found the info very educational, especially for anyone who is starting at square one in regards to IR.

rogold | 02-15-2009 11:35 PM
Re: Infra Red Isn't Infra-red the night vision and thermal vision something different?

Bx3 | 02-16-2009 01:07 AM
Re: Infra Red http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_vision_devices no

Twisted Avatar | 02-16-2009 01:29 AM
Re: Infra Red Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem (Post 1570352) There are real cheep'os and there are good ones. I have a couple dozen cheap ones and a half dozen good ones. Good ones. http://www.rei.com/product/407106
I am going to pick up two of these. They look awesome!!! Thanks.

Cassius | 02-16-2009 01:32 AM
Re: Infra Red Nightvision devices often use multiple methods of illumination enhancement, only one of these is infrared illumination. Thermography is the detection of infrared radiation emitted as heat from objects such as warm-blooded animals (humans). Yes, thermal vision and nightvision are two different things, although they operate on the same principles.

Twisted Avatar | 02-16-2009 01:34 AM
Re: Infra Red I found the same one two bucks cheaper !!! http://www.candfsupply.com/index.php...6&currency=USD

WAoG | 02-16-2009 01:56 AM
Re: Infra Red Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven (Post 1570285) Just wondering....do 'space blankets' or such stuff hide a heat signature if the body is fully covered with it? It there anything that does cover a heat signature?
You can I believe also buy military tents used from outdoor stores that state they do this? I think last time I priced one it was a bit over 200 bucks?

GOLD DUCK | 02-16-2009 01:57 AM
Re: Infra Red Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1572427) I am going to pick up two of these. They look awesome!!! Thanks.
QWAK,TA,when I went threw the NCO acadamy I slept under one of them space blankets ON TOP of my made up bunk!:yes: I used ironing board strechers UNDER the matress to keep the sheets and blankets TIGHT!:yes: You realy COULD bounce a QUORTER off my made up bunk!:yes: It went to NAM and back with me I still got it some ware :yes: don't reflect as good as new but still works:wink:. It does NOT insolate it reflects back about 90% of your radiated body heat . The one I had was red but new ones come in camo and I believe the previous statment that IF used as a tent or canape it would hid you from somthing like the FLOR they use from choppers -- just got to hide the heat. the DUCK

mtnman | 02-16-2009 09:12 AM
Re: Infra Red If you're being hunted by someone with an Infra Red device here's what you do. SHOOT AT THEM! Never mind trying to hide. If it's a helicopter lead it a little, just like shooting birds on the wing. Bring that chopper down then VACATE the area immediately.

Conk | 02-17-2009 11:35 AM
Re: Infra Red I negotiated a contract for military night vision equipment. During a briefing the manufacturer casually leaned against the wall, his hand placed openly on the wall. He walked around to the front of the device. A few minutes later invited us to look through the view finder. Amazingly, the image of his hand on the wall was still visible! Military night vision equipment is incredible.

Canadian-guerilla | 02-17-2009 11:48 AM
Re: Infra Red something similar to fingerprints ? the oils in the hand left on the wall retaining heat

Bx3 | 02-17-2009 12:28 PM
Re: Infra Red Just radiant heat transfer.

Phaedrus | 02-17-2009 12:33 PM
Re: Infra Red Learn how to hide from airborne infrared detection devices, snipers guide: http://www.scribd.com/doc/11192196/l...-snipers-guide About as comprehensive and complete as the internet has to offer.

Vendico | 02-17-2009 12:44 PM
Re: Infra Red Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus (Post 1575530) Learn how to hide from airborne infrared detection devices, snipers guide: http://www.scribd.com/doc/11192196/l...-snipers-guide About as comprehensive and complete as the internet has to offer.
"As to "space blanket" applications: there might be some, BUT. If you are using the shiny side toward you to keep your IR from getting out, remember that the backside of it is probably not a good E match to the surroundings and it will heat/cool a lot differently than most natural things around you. If you are trying to put the shiny side out angled down to reflect the IR of the terrain right in front of you, there would be a 10% reduction in the reflection, more if it casts a shadow. If the shiny side is out and up, it will reflect the cold of outer space (or the heat of the sun) - and it is going to look REALLY weird to visual and starlight in EITHER case! I cannot think of a space blanket application that I would stake MY life on."

Keyboard | 02-17-2009 12:56 PM
Re: Infra Red Quote:
Originally Posted by rogold (Post 1572271) Isn't Infra-red the night vision and thermal vision something different?
Yes. Space blankets will not hide you from the kind of thermal imaging that is used on government helicopters.

Dave Thomas | 02-17-2009 04:36 PM
Re: Infra Red I think a lot of people are confusing light amplification aka "Night Vision" with Forward looking infra red. (FLIR) They are vastly different. If someone had on night vision goggles, they would see a well lit up guy hiding in a VERY reflective space blanket. If someone was using FLIR, (you know the kind you see on CNN, the FLIR data from an F16 or an Apache, with white hot shells flying all over the place, and guys with white heads and white hands running from them) They would most likely see some sort of white hot cracks coming from the edges had you wrapped it around you. Now if you say suspended it a few feet above you, I would be wary that the space blanket itself wasn't hiding too much. By this I mean you might have this very curious "square" that was blocking the normal heat from the background heat signature of the grass/field/branches/air what have you. Chopper pilot flying over this patch of woods or cornfield, sees all this normal background heat signature, then all of a sudden sees this 3x4 thermal anomoly from the sky. Hrm. Something fishy. The other thing is one of heat difference. Imagine if you were being hunted in Canada for instance, the difference between your body and the snow you walk on is about 70~80 degrees F, I don't have any doubt that someone with FLIR in a chopper would spot you even with the space blanket. They would see a long trail of your frozen breath, foot prints and all sorts of other tell tale signatures leading up to the space blanket. Now zoom over to a jungle in costa rica, where most temprature differences between you and your body are close to 5~10 degrees. In that situation you're probably more likely to get away with the space blanket, because it doesn't have much to hide. But I would arrange the space blanket so that it doesn't make the heat it's sheilding look like a very conspicious square. So if you're gonna use a space blanket to hide from the delta force, make sure you're in the jungle. Either that or get a space suit like the one Gary Busey wore in predator 2.

Canadian-guerilla | 04-02-2009 08:04 AM
Re: Infra Red how far away was the helicopter ? http://blutube.policeone.com/Clip-fs...een&playTime=0

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Gold & Silver Forum - Infra Red

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- - Infra Red (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=349376)

Mantokir | 04-02-2009 10:17 AM
Re: Infra Red Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 1658683) how far away was the helicopter ? http://blutube.policeone.com/Clip-fs...een&playTime=0
Goin by that video you'd be better off just laying in the road somewhere...

Ash_Williams | 04-02-2009 11:25 AM
Re: Infra Red I have some small cameras that work with the visible spectrum and with infra red. I can shut off the lights, and see my tv remote working like a dim flashlight on the screen. Anyway, what I'd really like is a good infra red lightbulb. LED's don't put out enough light to see anything. I want a 100 watt bulb that I can plug into a normal socket and have it light up a large area that I can see on my little camera. Does anyone know where I would find such a thing? The bulb should look dark to a human, but bright to the camera (like the LED in your TV remote.) I guess the bulb would need some kind of filtering on the surface to prevent the non-infrared from getting out.

Mantokir | 04-02-2009 11:36 AM
Re: Infra Red Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash_Williams (Post 1659098) I have some small cameras that work with the visible spectrum and with infra red. I can shut off the lights, and see my tv remote working like a dim flashlight on the screen. Anyway, what I'd really like is a good infra red lightbulb. LED's don't put out enough light to see anything. I want a 100 watt bulb that I can plug into a normal socket and have it light up a large area that I can see on my little camera. Does anyone know where I would find such a thing? The bulb should look dark to a human, but bright to the camera (like the LED in your TV remote.) I guess the bulb would need some kind of filtering on the surface to prevent the non-infrared from getting out.
Something like this? http://www.bulbman.com/index.php?mai...Path=3900_4269

Ash_Williams | 04-02-2009 02:29 PM
Re: Infra Red I can't tell from the site but I think those are the "heat lamp" type bulbs. The use them to keep food warm in some places. They put out a ton of infra-red, but they also give off some visible red light. What I'm after is something that tosses out infra-red, with no visible glow. If you were to turn one on, the room would still be dark, but my cameras that see in infra-red would be able to record everything as if it were brightly lite (except it would be in black and white). It would be a el-cheapo night-vision surveillance system (I got a ton of these cameras for like $15 each.) Edit: I hadn't looked for one of these for over a year, but just did a google search turned up one that runs on LEDs and cost $129. I was hoping for something closer to $12.90

Dave Thomas | 04-02-2009 02:42 PM
Re: Infra Red Ash I don't think you're going to find a infra red light source that uses a conventional tungsten filament. You COULD purchase lots of acetate filters and block most of the visible light, but you'd still see the bulb visibly. What you're looking for is to make your own infra red spotlight. To do it cheaply you're going to have to buy a bunch of infra red LED's and wire them together in a series-parallel fashion. But even so you're not going to get something that's going to cut into the darkness 100 feet what have you, it may only bathe something about 20 feet in front of you! This guy was thinking along the same lines as you. http://www.gizmology.net/infrared.htm At .50� a unit, that would be $45 bucks, not to mention prototyping costs what have you.

Mantokir | 04-02-2009 02:46 PM
Re: Infra Red Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash_Williams (Post 1659437) I can't tell from the site but I think those are the "heat lamp" type bulbs. The use them to keep food warm in some places. They put out a ton of infra-red, but they also give off some visible red light. What I'm after is something that tosses out infra-red, with no visible glow. If you were to turn one on, the room would still be dark, but my cameras that see in infra-red would be able to record everything as if it were brightly lite (except it would be in black and white). It would be a el-cheapo night-vision surveillance system (I got a ton of these cameras for like $15 each.) Edit: I hadn't looked for one of these for over a year, but just did a google search turned up one that runs on LEDs and cost $129. I was hoping for something closer to $12.90
What about getting a handfull of LEDs and making an LED flashlight type deal?

Ash_Williams | 04-02-2009 03:12 PM
Re: Infra Red Quote:
Ash I don't think you're going to find a infra red light source that uses a conventional tungsten filament. You COULD purchase lots of acetate filters and block most of the visible light, but you'd still see the bulb visibly.
Quote:
What about getting a handfull of LEDs and making an LED flashlight type deal?
I've played around with LEDs but the bright ones are expensive and LEDs tend to be very directional. I wanted to use a few bulbs, one over the driveway, one near the entrances to the house, and a camera with each. Plus I have light fixtures at each of these places... a bulb in there wouldn't draw any attention and the cameras are small enough that no one would notice them. It would be more difficult to hide a thing with dozens of LEDs in it, as well as a power adaptor. I've seen the ultraviolet lights out there that fit in standard sockets and give off so little visible light as to practically look "off". One of those I could stick in a socket and dim enough to not be noticeable given street light, moonlight, etc. I was hoping such a thing existed for infra-red. I imagine once I search for these again next year, there will be a cheap IR lightbulb available.

Dutch Dog | 04-02-2009 03:16 PM
Re: Infra Red http://www.supercircuits.com/Infrared-Illuminators/ I am in the process of hooking one of these up. Not a bad price for what they do. Good addition to the home security sys (that has IR cameras)

mayhem | 04-02-2009 04:53 PM
Re: Infra Red Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Dog (Post 1659535) http://www.supercircuits.com/Infrared-Illuminators/ I am in the process of hooking one of these up. Not a bad price for what they do. Good addition to the home security sys (that has IR cameras)
From that same web site http://www.supercircuits.com/Infrare...ators/IR18-230 Truly invisible, but very pricy.

Tallships | 04-02-2009 06:24 PM
Re: Infra Red That infrared camera will even pick up farts..... You Tube
You Tube

Jimfrancisco | 04-02-2009 07:11 PM
Re: Infra Red Speaking as someone who has lived for many years in a country where helicopters with IR cameras are regularly used - no, a space blanket is next to useless. Been tried and tested, along with all the other variants. They can still see your exhaled breath, they can see any warmth. I was lucky/unlucky enough to get a chance to go up in an "Eye in the sky" above Belfast - the rumours about them being able to see your eye colour, when they are at such an altitude that you can't even hear them - true. The IR cameras can see you even through thick cloud, when you cannot see or hear the copter. Underground bunkers? You need about 20ft of concrete before you become invisible - and even then, the warm air you breathe out of any vents is visible. There's no hiding, unless you hide where the choppers don't fly...

Jimfrancisco | 04-02-2009 07:15 PM
Re: Infra Red Or, I suppose, if you stop breathing or giving off body heat - in which case I don't think IR/thermal cameras are your main problem - because you are dead.

Iptuous | 04-02-2009 07:17 PM
Re: Infra Red Just wipe some mud on yourself and not even a Yautja can see you.

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