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Tn...Andy | 07-26-2007 03:34 PM
Shelf life of foods I know freeze dried stuff in the #10 cans is supposed to have a long shelf life....if you buy Mtn House today, it has a "best used by" date on it of 2032. But regular dried stuff, not freeze dried, I've always read 4-7 years....depending on where you read it. One site I just read says, for example this list "indefinite": # Wheat # Vegetable oils # Dried Corn # Baking powder # Soybeans # Instant coffee, tea and cocoa # Salt # Non-carbonated soft drinks # White rice # Bouillon products # Dry pasta # Powdered milk (in nitrogen-packed cans) http://www.lakehaven.org/Emergency/Shelflife.htm I was moving some stuff around today, re-arranging, and got out some #10 cans of powdered milk I bought from Walton Feeds in 1995.....decided to open a can and test drive it. This is some of the oldest commercial stuff I own. Dairy Delite brand.....is nitrogen packed, and has an oxygen absorber in the can as well. The seal hissed a nice sound when I opened it....powder looked good....so I mixed it 2 cups powder to 2 1/2 cups water ( slightly richer than the directions) 10 seconds in a VitaMix blender, and dang.....it was GOOD.....and not even cold yet.....went ahead and mixed up several gallons we'll try over the next couple days. No doubt, the vitamin content is probably down some from fresh packed, but I was sure pleased with the taste and texture. Better than packaged dry milk straight off the store shelf, not that that is any real treat. Storage conditions: Dry shelf in an insulated garage cabinet that stays above freezing in winter, and below 75 degrees in summer. FYI

silverJeep | 07-26-2007 04:01 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods I've heard honey can be added to that list. ??

Tn...Andy | 07-26-2007 05:02 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods I'd say there is a lot that could be added to that list.....honey for sure.....far as I know, it's good forever. It does crystallize in the jar, but putting the jar in hot water returns it to it's former syrup state. Cooking oil, I'd be sorta leary of "indefinite".....though we typically keep and use ours several years. I have some larger, 4 gallon plastic jug in a cardboard box style containers of cannola oil I get at a local restuarant supply place....it's fairly cheap at about 20 bucks a container, and I figure if it goes rancid, I'll just pour a quart a time in the tractor fuel tank and use it as "bio-diesel". Wheat I understand they have found out of the Pharoh's tombs in Egypt from several thousand years ago, and it still sprouted ! Nitrogen packed in mylar bags in a 6 gallon "superpail", I suspect it will be just fine way past my life time......same for about any WHOLE grain. Flour and meal, I be sort leary of the life on.......so have a way to grind whole wheat, oat, corn, etc into a meal for use, or plan on using as sprouts....personally, I more a whole wheat bread and cornmeal kinda guy.

tomexxtra | 07-26-2007 05:09 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods You missed two with an infinite self life. Sugar and Honey, as long as they are in a cool dry place.

Tn...Andy | 07-26-2007 05:12 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Wasn't my list......just one I found on a website.

Kahlil Gibran | 07-26-2007 05:13 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Heat shortens the shelf life of everything so the cooler the better. :smile: nice to see the Milk still good!

GoldWampum | 07-26-2007 05:21 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods This stuff is good to Andy, thanks. I always like to hear actual accounts.

Atahualpa | 07-26-2007 05:43 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Andy, the Red Feather butter you recommended is quality stuff, I use it all the time, the butter fat content is high. When you melt it you can see the solids and it is far less than grocery store butter. The Baga cheese is top shelf also. I started using these products while RVing and now I use them at home...keep the supply rotating. They're more expensive ounce for ounce than what is available at grocery stores, but I like the fact that I can store it and enjoy using it at the same time. I have dried cheese and dried butter powder, but I have never tried them, not in any hurry to either. I have been making homemade granola from stored ingredients and there is no store bought that can come close. Oats, walnuts, pecans, dates, raisins, dried blueberries and raspberries, vanilla, honey, milled flax seed, butter, walnut and almond oils are most of the ingredients I use and they all store a long time (milled flax not so long..but I just finished using package that was more than a year old and it was fine). I've been using quite a bit of my storage and I'm about to get a fresh bunch of supplies because I know now what I will really use from storage on a daily basis. Also I think food costs are about to go up big time...especially grains.

KASHMAN02 | 07-26-2007 06:25 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Quote:
Originally Posted by tomexxtra (Post 676112) You missed two with an infinite self life. Sugar and Honey, as long as they are in a cool dry place.
I heard peanut butter has indefinite shelf life also.

Maddie | 07-26-2007 11:18 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods About a year ago I opened some #10 cans that I'd bought in 1985, making them over 20 years old. I can't remember the brands, off-hand, but they weren't anything I've seen around today. The cans contained chicken, corn, white beans, white flour, millet, and peanut butter powder. The millet was fine. The white flour and beans were okay. The chicken bits were brittle, appeared kind of porous (ever see the kibbles in Kibbles 'n Bits dog food?), and smelled like Kibbles 'n Bits dry dog food. I rehydrated them, and even the dogs turned their nose up at them. I did try a taste. Blech! Like dry dog food! The corn didn't rehydrate properly, the kernals maintaining their dehydrated shapes, and was tasteless. The peanut butter had such an "off" smell that I rehydrated it, but I didn't dare taste it. The cans had been kept in the basement, where it's cool. They'd gotten "lost" with a couple of cases of MREs in the back of a closet down there when we first moved in. The MREs from that time period ranged from disgusting and unrecognizable (bright blue cheddar cheese?) to edible but with an unpleasant texture (disintegrates in your mouth). Most of the stuff probably didn't have any nutritional value left in it. I think the cans they use these days are better than those of 20 years ago, but I am curious about how long some of the stuff canned today will last. I think grains are immortal, and beans might be close behind them, but I'm suspicious about meats and veggies. Btw, Kashman, I've seen some "skunked" jars of old peanut butter. I don't think I'd trust it.

Unclad Lad | 07-27-2007 12:46 AM
Re: Shelf life of foods Quote:
Btw, Kashman, I've seen some "skunked" jars of old peanut butter. I don't think I'd trust it.
Anything with a high fat content, which PB does, is eventually going to go rancid. But leaving it in the natural pre-processed state will help. The proverbial Pharoah's wheat is still vital and nutritious, but grind it into flour and it'll taste off in six months. If you want post-apocalypse peanut butter, buy unroasted peanuts. Goobers, water (maybe), and salt, and you're in business.

BeeYourself | 07-27-2007 06:13 AM
Re: Shelf life of foods Bump. Please sticky this thread. My family needs a lot of data on this. i am sure others do as well. I am continuously frustrated by not having shelf life printed on any store products.

Tn...Andy | 07-27-2007 06:51 AM
Re: Shelf life of foods Most packaged products have a "best used by" date on them, but they are VERY conservative for the most part I think. We have had a food storage/rotation program in our household since the early 90's, and I can tell you foods will last a LOT longer than the label dates. Key points are good sealing and cool storage....70 or less.....each 10 degrees less adds 30% to the storage time from what I read.

Merlin | 07-27-2007 07:58 AM
Re: Shelf life of foods Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 676108) Cooking oil, I'd be sorta leary of "indefinite".....though we typically keep and use ours several years. I have some larger, 4 gallon plastic jug in a cardboard box style containers of cannola oil I get at a local restuarant supply place....it's fairly cheap at about 20 bucks a container, and I figure if it goes rancid, I'll just pour a quart a time in the tractor fuel tank and use it as "bio-diesel".
Vegetable oil can go rancid when exposed to oxygen. Because the quart bottles at the grocery store are plastic, which is gas permeable, I re-package my vegetable oil for storage into quart canning jars with metal lids and vacuum seal them. Store cool and dry in the dark. No oxygen... no rancidity. I hope.

shades2 | 07-27-2007 08:37 AM
Re: Shelf life of foods Sugar, salt, honey, sodium bicarbonate. Not exactly a balanced diet, but useful nonetheless, and can be traded for what you do need. Kept away from water and dry, will last basically forever. On the upside, apart from the honey it is all a cheap investment, and can be bought in real bulk quantity. Other long term storage items include white rice (freeze it first to kill any bugs present), you might get 2-3 years out of white rice if stored well, maybe more, and it is an excellent source of basic carbohydrates and the basis of a meal. Worth having around in bulk and consuming/cycling it over. Alcohol in the form of spirits. Vodka / Brandy / Wines. Obviously not cheap, but will keep going up in value and tradeable value, and will last a long time, wines are good if you plan to cycle it.

Tn...Andy | 07-27-2007 01:49 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Opened a can of egg mix and cheese powder today....also from 1995....neither was nitrogen packed, just an oxygen absober in the #10 can. Egg mix was simply wasn't very good looking... I went ahead and mixed it with water per directions, and made a small pan of scrambled eggs....yeeeech.....one small taste convinced me this stuff was GONE.....and yes, I know powdered eggs on a GOOD day aren't all that great, but these were GONE...... The cheese powder was 'so-so'.....mixed with macaroni or over veggies, I could probably eat it, but I'm pitching the cans of it as well. Both of these were Walton Feed brands. Both also were a mix including things like soybean oil. Then I opened a small can (2 1/2 size ) of SamAndy brand dehydrated peaches.....from 95...also GONE.....smell was bad, didn't even bother to re-hydrate. Not nitrogen packed either....from the smell, these had been "gone" a long time. Well, 12 years.....I wasn't expecting TOO much.

Rampon | 07-27-2007 03:00 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods 1 Attachment(s) Andy, better lighten up on that samplin'...specially when ya get to that good stuff. We'll all come over to help ya with that:D

TLM | 07-27-2007 03:13 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin (Post 676759) Vegetable oil can go rancid when exposed to oxygen. Because the quart bottles at the grocery store are plastic, which is gas permeable, I re-package my vegetable oil for storage into quart canning jars with metal lids and vacuum seal them. Store cool and dry in the dark. No oxygen... no rancidity. I hope.
Crisco Vegetable shortening has easily 3 times the shelf life of vegetable oil. Expect 6-10 years if kept unopened in a cool dry place, I've have vegetable oil start having a little rancid odor after only 3 years

Merlin | 07-27-2007 03:26 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Quote:
Originally Posted by TLM (Post 677183) Crisco Vegetable shortening has easily 3 times the shelf life of vegetable oil. Expect 6-10 years if kept unopened in a cool dry place, I've have vegetable oil start having a little rancid odor after only 3 years
In fact, Crisco shortening that comes in the metal can has a shelf life that the company calls "indefinite." And I have Crisco in my food storage for when TSHTF. But I don't want to cook and bake with Crisco on a daily basis because I don't believe it's healthy (high in trans fats). So I try to rotate peanut oil and olive oil over a period of 24 months or so and usually have a couple gallons on hand. But I take special pains to protect it from oxygen, light and heat because you're right -- it doesn't last forever.

TLM | 07-27-2007 04:10 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin (Post 677197) In fact, Crisco shortening that comes in the metal can has a shelf life that the company calls "indefinite." And I have Crisco in my food storage for when TSHTF. But I don't want to cook and bake with Crisco on a daily basis because I don't believe it's healthy (high in trans fats). So I try to rotate peanut oil and olive oil over a period of 24 months or so and usually have a couple gallons on hand. But I take special pains to protect it from oxygen, light and heat because you're right -- it doesn't last forever.
Probabaly still a lot healthier than the Crisco animal lard my Mom used to cook with... McDonalds fries and apple pies cooked in Lard... yummmy!

Maddie | 07-27-2007 05:15 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods I have sort of a running experiment with Crisco shortening. It wasn't exactly on purpose...I just don't use the stuff that much. As a result, the cans sit for a loooong time on the shelf in the kitchen. When I've bought new cans, I've kept the old ones...opened ones, mind you...just to see how long they'll last. I've got a small can that's been opened since '98 that still doesn't smell rancid or look bad. I used it to grease a couple of baking pans with, and there were no ill effects or off-taste. I don't think I'd fry a bunch of food up in it, just in case, but I mostly use the stuff for greasing baking pans anyway. Has anyone experimented with the #10 cans of powdered shortening? I have a couple, but I haven't tried them yet. The idea of powdered shortening just seems so...weird...

Atahualpa | 07-27-2007 05:58 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Speaking of shortening (and lard), as we know they are hydrogenated and high in trans fatty acids, but they make the best pie crusts, can't get that flakey crust without them. Anybody tried organic non-trans shortening? http://www.spectrumorganics.com/index.php?id=87

Blorp | 07-27-2007 07:54 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Quote:
Originally Posted by shades2 (Post 676786) Alcohol in the form of spirits. Vodka / Brandy / Wines. Obviously not cheap, but will keep going up in value and tradeable value, and will last a long time, wines are good if you plan to cycle it.
Honey has been found in ancient tombs. It has a long shelf life. Alcohol is a good thing to have. I brew my own mead, wine, and beer. I consider this to be a great barter item for WTSHTF. People always have money for booze, no matter how tough times get. Plus it is fun to make and drink. By law, in a multi adult household you are allowed to brew 200 gallons of beer and 200 gallons of wine each year. I brew like a madman and cannot keep up with that pace. The process is easy and I've made this part of my 'preps' and I could continue to brew without the grid, fuel, etc. (it is easier with those luxuries so I do that right now, but if necessary I could brew without modern conveniences.) I keep several hundred pounds of grain, several pounds of hops, and water on hand. If times became really tough, I could keep brewing at my current pace without spending another dime for a year, probably much longer. One can get really creative and make booze from wheat, sorghum, rice, corn, almost any grain. The flavor won't be top notch but it can be done. Most booze benefits from long storage. Look at the prices of wines and scotch. Booze stores well. Heck, I have a 25% ABV wine I made this year, that I plan to age for five years before drinking! Some booze needs long aging. I'm not fooling myself. I know that I cannot prepare for everything. I am trying to put myself in a good position. Medicine, booze, bleach, and ammo will be worth their weight in gold if TSHTF. I'm planning on that and stocking accordingly. Just my .02. As a side note, I'm suprised no one mentioned Twinkies. Those things last forever. :sarc: Blorp

Blorp | 07-27-2007 08:02 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Also, I agree on the dry pasta, powered milk, and rice. Rice is CHEAP if you buy it in bulk. There is a reason Budweiser uses it in their beer, and it isn't for flavor! 50# of rice goes a long way. Blorp

hoarder | 07-27-2007 08:13 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Quote:
Originally Posted by Blorp (Post 677480) Medicine, booze, bleach, and ammo will be worth their weight in gold if TSHTF. I'm planning on that and stocking accordingly. Just my .02.
Ordinary liquid bleach like Clorox only keeps about a year or two. I can't remember the name of the solid stuff, like the pool guys use. It keeps forever and you just add water to make bleach.

Blorp | 07-27-2007 08:18 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 677506) Ordinary liquid bleach like Clorox only keeps about a year or two. I can't remember the name of the solid stuff, like the pool guys use. It keeps forever and you just add water to make bleach.
I keep bulk quantities of a variety of dry sanitizers on hand, both O2 based and sulfite based as a result of home brewing. Sanitation is an issue today. Sanitation will be a HUGE issue WTSHTF. I was not aware of the shelf life of liquid bleach. I do have some on hand but the majority of my stuff is powered. I will look into the pool use powdered formats. Thanks! That is what makes this board great! Blorp

BeeYourself | 07-27-2007 09:17 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods There are a couple other things that last nearly forever that should be in your arsenal especially if you brew. Citric Acid. Great cleaner. Doubles as a hair conditioner and is better than anything you can buy for your hair. Disinfectant and preservative that is edible. They sell this at brew shops but they do not call it citric acid because then they could not run the scam and charge you 10 times as much for it. 20 Mule Team Borax. Cleaning... lasts forever. Good soap and shampoo and laundry detergent and its dirt cheap. http://www.dialcorp.com/images/purex...am_borax_2.gif

hoarder | 07-27-2007 09:49 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnysideup (Post 677563) In short-DO NOT LET THEM INTO YOUR BODY. Look up http://www.healingmatters.com for more info.
But my television says I must consume these oils. I've heard about 20 Mule Team Borax. I've been trying to find it for years. No luck yet. Can anyone refresh my memory on the name of the solid bleach? It comes in little briquets usually.

shades2 | 07-27-2007 11:57 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Quote:
Originally Posted by Blorp (Post 677509) I keep bulk quantities of a variety of dry sanitizers on hand, both O2 based and sulfite based as a result of home brewing. Sanitation is an issue today. Sanitation will be a HUGE issue WTSHTF. I was not aware of the shelf life of liquid bleach. I do have some on hand but the majority of my stuff is powered. I will look into the pool use powdered formats. Thanks! That is what makes this board great! Blorp
I believe over time the chlorine solution will break down, and the chlorine molecule will evaporate out of solution. A bit like how petrol looses it's oomph over time, as hydrocarbons evaporate off.

RealityCheck | 11-19-2007 01:19 PM
Re: Shelf life of foods Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 677087) Opened a can of egg mix and cheese powder today....also from 1995....neither was nitrogen packed, just an oxygen absober in the #10 can. Egg mix was simply wasn't very good looking... I went ahead and mixed it with water per directions, and made a small pan of scrambled eggs....yeeeech.....one small taste convinced me this stuff was GONE.....and yes, I know powdered eggs on a GOOD day aren't all that great, but these were GONE...... The cheese powder was 'so-so'.....mixed with macaroni or over veggies, I could probably eat it, but I'm pitching the cans of it as well. Both of these were Walton Feed brands. Both also were a mix including things like soybean oil. Then I opened a small can (2 1/2 size ) of SamAndy brand dehydrated peaches.....from 95...also GONE.....smell was bad, didn't even bother to re-hydrate. Not nitrogen packed either....from the smell, these had been "gone" a long time. Well, 12 years.....I wasn't expecting TOO much.
I'm suprised the peaches were spoiled but not the milk? Weird. I figured the milk would long be rancid. On the other hand I would NOT have expected the peaches to be so bad. They weren't that far off their maximum shelf life. I thought that the shelf life is when things would begin to spoil, not be totally spoiled? PS bump.

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