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drewfu | 04-25-2008 02:08 PM
Propane? What are the pros-cons of propane use? I understand it is cheaper per BTU than electricity but more than heating oil or natural gas. I like the idea of having the tank right there. I hope the resident experts will weigh in on this one.

Professur | 04-25-2008 02:12 PM
Re: Propane? It can be used with O2 for cutting steel, driving a car, cooking, heating a house .. and it doesn't go bad over time. And unlike acetylene, it's not shock sensitive, so it won't blow up your house unless it leaks.

TechGuy | 04-25-2008 02:45 PM
Re: Propane? I will not claim resident expert but here is my .02 Propane: Plusses: Longer lasting than any other fuel storage, will not go bad like gasoline, diesel, kerosene, etc. Very high BTU vs storage space when compared to wood, coal, corn, etc. Easy to store a years worth or more. Minuses: More restrictions on where you can have a tank Propane is heavier than air, and has a tendency to 'pool' whereas natural gas does not. This can lead to a VERY bad situation when a leak happens in a confined area. (We had a cooktop blow up 2 years ago due to this issue).

drewfu | 04-25-2008 02:48 PM
Re: Propane? Good info so far -- If I have a 500 gallon tank hooked up to my house, can I have a few small tanks in the shed and then fill the big tank with them in an emergency situation?

TechGuy | 04-25-2008 02:54 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 1078484) Good info so far -- If I have a 500 gallon tank hooked up to my house, can I have a few small tanks in the shed and then fill the big tank with them in an emergency situation?
Unfortunately no. Bulk propane is liquid, but turns into gas when the pressure is lowered. Your connection to your big tank is on the top. So what happens in that your propane provider fuels your tank with liquid propane, he can only fill it to 80%. Why? Because the other 20% is to provide space for the propane to change phase from liquid to gas. This is what is happening every time you pull propane from the tank, you cause a slight pressure change in the tank and a small amount of propane changes from liquid to gas and you pull it from the top. Once the pressure is the tank equalizes, no more propane changes from solid to gas. You can refill the small coleman size propane bottles from a larger bbq grill style bottle by using a special adapter and turning the larger bottle upside down. (because of what I was trying to explain above).

drewfu | 04-25-2008 02:58 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1078488) Unfortunately no. Bulk propane is liquid, but turns into gas when the pressure is lowered. Your connection to your big tank is on the top. So what happens in that your propane provider fuels your tank with liquid propane, he can only fill it to 80%. Why? Because the other 20% is to provide space for the propane to change phase from liquid to gas. This is what is happening every time you pull propane from the tank, you cause a slight pressure change in the tank and a small amount of propane changes from liquid to gas and you pull it from the top. Once the pressure is the tank equalizes, no more propane changes from solid to gas. You can refill the small coleman size propane bottles from a larger bbq grill style bottle by using a special adapter and turning the larger bottle upside down. (because of what I was trying to explain above).
Ok, I'm, seeing how it goes now -- What about this option: My big tank runs out. I hook the small tank into my home system and run off it. Possible?

TechGuy | 04-25-2008 03:03 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 1078493) Ok, I'm, seeing how it goes now -- What about this option: My big tank runs out. I hook the small tank into my home system and run off it. Possible?
I have been looking for a easy setup for that as well, but haven't found anything simple. The problem is with the regulator setups on the tanks. Hopefully someone will have found something and post it here.

drewfu | 04-25-2008 03:07 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1078499) I have been looking for a easy setup for that as well, but haven't found anything simple. The problem is with the regulator setups on the tanks. Hopefully someone will have found something and post it here.
What about having the tank buried. Any drawbacks there?

TechGuy | 04-25-2008 03:11 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 1078506) What about having the tank buried. Any drawbacks there?
Cost. Last quote I received for tank, permits and labor was over $2000 here around Houston. Ultimately I want 2 500 gallon buried tanks. But that will be a while. In the mean time a 500 gallon above ground tank is doing fine. The benefit from the buried tanks is looks and also a more stable temperature. You lose propane if you tank gets too hot and the gas expands. A bright white painted tank helps, but not as much as buried.

Squirrel Bait | 04-25-2008 03:12 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1078488) Unfortunately no. Bulk propane is liquid, but turns into gas when the pressure is lowered. Your connection to your big tank is on the top. So what happens in that your propane provider fuels your tank with liquid propane, he can only fill it to 80%. Why? Because the other 20% is to provide space for the propane to change phase from liquid to gas. This is what is happening every time you pull propane from the tank, you cause a slight pressure change in the tank and a small amount of propane changes from liquid to gas and you pull it from the top. Once the pressure is the tank equalizes, no more propane changes from solid to gas. You can refill the small coleman size propane bottles from a larger bbq grill style bottle by using a special adapter and turning the larger bottle upside down. (because of what I was trying to explain above).
Actually yes. But you have to get a liquid valve that has a pipe that extends to the bottom of the tank. My Dad has one for grain drying on the farm. He can fill a 20 lb tank with no problem. I ran this same idea past my propane guy. He gave me a strange look but said yes he would set it up for about $150 USD. I decided not to do it but now wish I had. sb

Professur | 04-25-2008 03:13 PM
Re: Propane? Technically, yes. Realistically ... not usually. A 500G tank will usually be hard piped to the house system to prevent leaks, filled from the other end. You could allow a tap off, but it would be a serious hazard and leak risk. Not to mention that you'd have to ensure you didn't accidentally leave the big tank's valve open when you fitted the small tank, or you'd only wind up blowing a tenth of a psi of pressure back into it (or damaging a regulator). Then there's the risk that the big tank would draw air through your tap off, requiring it to be purged ... a process that's not cheap.

drewfu | 04-25-2008 03:16 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1078516) Cost. Last quote I received for tank, permits and labor was over $2000 here around Houston. Ultimately I want 2 500 gallon buried tanks. But that will be a while. In the mean time a 500 gallon above ground tank is doing fine. The benefit from the buried tanks is looks and also a more stable temperature. You lose propane if you tank gets too hot and the gas expands. A bright white painted tank helps, but not as much as buried.
2000 but that included the tank -- If you already had the tank I bet it would be way under 1000 I looked at 500 gal tanks and they ran about 1200 in my area

drewfu | 04-25-2008 03:17 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 1078521) Technically, yes. Realistically ... not usually. A 500G tank will usually be hard piped to the house system to prevent leaks, filled from the other end. You could allow a tap off, but it would be a serious hazard and leak risk. Not to mention that you'd have to ensure you didn't accidentally leave the big tank's valve open when you fitted the small tank, or you'd only wind up blowing a tenth of a psi of pressure back into it (or damaging a regulator). Then there's the risk that the big tank would draw air through your tap off, requiring it to be purged ... a process that's not cheap.
What about with the liquid tap described above?

drewfu | 04-25-2008 03:38 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 1078531) With the right set-up, it is in fact possible to fill the 20, 30, 40, 25#, etc. cylinders off your 250, 500, etc. tank. Make friends with one of your local propane workers, and after a time ask him to help you build a DIY set-up to do this (the 'authorities' frown upon this).
That's not a problem -- I know how to get that setup. I want it to go the other way -- to fill my big tank with small ones or run my house with the small ones if the big one runs dry. It's all SHTF kind of stuff where I'd need to be hunkered down with my preps. But, it could also work in a weather disaster that kept trucks from delivering.

TechGuy | 04-25-2008 03:46 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 1078521) Technically, yes. Realistically ... not usually. A 500G tank will usually be hard piped to the house system to prevent leaks, filled from the other end. You could allow a tap off, but it would be a serious hazard and leak risk. Not to mention that you'd have to ensure you didn't accidentally leave the big tank's valve open when you fitted the small tank, or you'd only wind up blowing a tenth of a psi of pressure back into it (or damaging a regulator). Then there's the risk that the big tank would draw air through your tap off, requiring it to be purged ... a process that's not cheap.
I was referring to a standard tank setup.

bl96S5eu | 04-25-2008 04:14 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1078499) I have been looking for a easy setup for that as well, but haven't found anything simple. The problem is with the regulator setups on the tanks.
Are you looking for something like this? http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=83271

bl96S5eu | 04-25-2008 04:21 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 1078559) I want it to go the other way -- to fill my big tank with small ones or run my house with the small ones if the big one runs dry. It's all SHTF kind of stuff where I'd need to be hunkered down with my preps. But, it could also work in a weather disaster that kept trucks from delivering.
Why not just run the smaller tanks all of the time? Granted they're heavy dogs (which Andy warned about and I got to experience first hand) but you'd always have that 'portability' you're looking for. 100#

drewfu | 04-25-2008 04:25 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by bl96S5eu (Post 1078636) Why not just run the smaller tanks all of the time? Granted they're heavy dogs (which Andy warned about and I got to experience first hand) but you'd always have that 'portability' you're looking for. 100#
Ok, how do I hook up a small tank to my house system? Can the contraption that you linked to be used for that?

bl96S5eu | 04-25-2008 05:01 PM
Re: Propane? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 1078642) Ok, how do I hook up a small tank to my house system? Can the contraption that you linked to be used for that?
drewfu, you're probably pretty busy but read through the thread, specifically Tn...Andy's posts.

Tn...Andy | 04-25-2008 05:47 PM
Re: Propane? Rather than use a smaller tank ( I assume you mean a 100lb one ) to fill a larger one, the simpler way to go is just put a "T" in the line at some point so you can run the small tank into the line, shut off the big tank, and run the house off the small one. That's the way I have mine set up. You can use a single regulator like on a gas grill, etc, or you can get a dual regulator like I have ( see below ) that allows you to set a pair of tanks, and when one empties, you just flip the lever over to the other tank, get the empty one filled, so you always have gas. http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...3_p114619.jpeg Propane is fairly easy to plumb...use black iron pipe or copper. I keep a dozen of the 100lb tanks ( just shy of 25 gallons ) in addition to the 500 gallon underground I have. My underground was 1300 FRNs, but I dug the hole and covered it back. They will fill an underground to 90%, here....but only 80% on an above ground.

bsdetector | 04-25-2008 06:51 PM
Re: Propane? I've got a 250 gallon tank for the cook stove and instantaneous HWT. I think its a waste to use for space heat, I prefer wood.

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