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platinumdude | 03-21-2008 11:57 PM
berkey and salmonella question Not in my county, but some other county in my state had its water supply contaminated with salmonella and they are shipping bottled water to the residents. If a resident there has a black berkey water filter, would that make it safe to drink, or would they have to add chlorine drops first?

platinumdude | 03-22-2008 12:30 AM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Just a quick follow-up question. If my local water supply went bad, is it ok to prime the filter with the bad water?

CQC McDuck | 03-22-2008 01:04 AM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
Note: If the water used to field prime the elements is from a contaminated or suspect source, if possible use a container other than the lower chamber to immerse the elements. If this is not possible then use the water that collects in the lower chamber from the first purification cycle to make a soapy dishwater. Then wash thoroughly the inside of the lower chamber and discard the soapy water. Next, purify more water and use it to rinse any remaining soap from the lower chamber. Your Berkey� system is now ready for use.
http://berkeywater.com/FAQs/10v_priming.html With regards to your salmonella question, provided the system is working correctly, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't filter it out. The filters are supposed to be self-sterilizing.

Mumwaldee | 03-22-2008 01:39 AM
Re: berkey and salmonella question I think you need the white ceramic filters that are impregnated with silver. Quote:
The Super-Sterasyl white ceramic filters that come standard with the Big Berkey are cleanable and reduce up to 99.9% of particulates, cysts (Cryptosporidium Parvum, and Giardia Lamblia Cysts), parasites and pathogenic bacteria such as Cholera, Typhoid, Salmonella, Serratia, E. Coli, and Fecal Coliform. It also reduces chlorine, rust and sediment. The ceramics are impregnated with silver, making them self sterilizing. A set of two Super-Sterasyl white ceramic filters are good for up to 15,000 gallons of water over their lifetime, and are easily cleaned with Scotchbrite or a soft brush. The Big Berkey has a 2.25 gallon capacity and comes equipped with two Super Sterasyl white filters.
Quote:
# What is the technology behind the filter elements and why are they so special? A) Doulton invented the ceramic filter for water filtration in 1827. B) Silver impregnated: Prevents Mitosis or Grow-Through C) Pore size: .2 Nominal. >98% at .2 microns, >99.7% at .3 microns, >99.9% at .5 microns D) Removes >99.99% of Cryptosporidium, Giardia, E. Coli, Vibro Cholerae, Salmonella, Dysenteria. E) Toxicological extraction is commonly the most difficult area of the NSF testing standards to satisfy. This shows that the filter does not re-contaminate the water. Ceramic filters are notorious for recontaminating the water with undesirable elements such as Arsenic and Antimony. The Ceramic shell of our filter is an NSF Listed Component and is manufactured to meet NSF standards 42 and 53. F) Carbon Core: Removes bad taste and bad odor as well as pesticides, herbicides, organic solvents, trihalomethanes. G) Ceramic elements may be cleaned 50 to 100 times or more.

platinumdude | 03-22-2008 11:07 AM
Re: berkey and salmonella question All the stuff I read claims the black berkey filters are the best. So does one have to filter through a ceramic and then a black to remove a lot more bad stuff?

Tallships | 03-22-2008 11:21 AM
Re: berkey and salmonella question I would boil it first, then filter it. Heat kills salmonella. Then you are guaranteed good results.

<SLV> | 03-22-2008 11:50 AM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 1024170) I would boil it first, then filter it. Heat kills salmonella. Then you are guaranteed good results.
This is true, but in Alamosa they have warned residents not to boil the tap water while they are "purging" the system - probably because of the chemicals they are pushing through the system. Everyone should take not of Alamosa and learn an important lesson. If you are depending on someone else to deliver your water, then you are puting a lot of power and trust in someone else's hands.

platinumdude | 03-22-2008 11:55 AM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 1024202) This is true, but in Alamosa they have warned residents not to boil the tap water while they are "purging" the system - probably because of the chemicals they are pushing through the system. Everyone should take not of Alamosa and learn an important lesson. If you are depending on someone else to deliver your water, then you are puting a lot of power and trust in someone else's hands.
So in that case, even with a berkey, it's better to collect rain water and then filter that? Cause I don't know if the berkey will remove all the chemicals added or not.

Mumwaldee | 03-22-2008 12:43 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Well, you at least know you can safely boil rain water. It seems the black filters are good for dangerous metal removal....and the white filters are good for various viruses and bacteria. I could be wrong. Certainly wouldn't hurt to strain water through one kind then the other. *after a little searching...it looks like the NEW black filters are stronger than the old white ceramic ones. So using those, you should be safe. Here is the list for the NEW black filters...I don't see salmonella on the list though. PATHOGENIC BACTERIA CYSTS AND PARASITES removal to non-detectable levels: E. coli – Klebsiella - Pseudomonas aeruginosa – Giardia – Cryptosporidium TRIHALOMETHANES removed to below detectable limits: Health effects: muscle & nervous system disorders, cancer Bromodichloromethane – Bromoform – Chloroform – Dibromochloromethane RADIOLOGICALS removed to below detectable limits: Radon 222 INORGANIC MINERALS removed to below detectable limits: CONTAMINANT HEALTH EFFECTS Chlorine Residual cancer, birth defects VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUNDS (VOC’s) removed to below detectable limits: Alachlor, Atrazine, Benzene, Carbofuran, Carbon Tetrachloride, Chlorine, Chlorobenzene, Chloroform, 2,4-D, DBCP, p- Dichlorobenzene, o-Dichlorobenzene, 1, 1-Dichloroethane, 1, 2- Dichloroethane, 1, 1-Dichloroethylene, cis-1, 2-Dichloroethylene, Trans-1,2-Dichloroethylene, 1, 2-Dichloropropane, cis-l,3- Dichloropropylene, Dinoseb, Endrin, Ethylbenzene, Ethylene Dibromide (EDB), Heptachlor, Heptachlor Epoxide, Hexachlorobutodiene, Hexachlorocyclopentadiene, Lindane, Methoxychlor, MTBE, Pentachlorophenol, Simazine, Styrene, 1,1,2,2- Tetrachloroethane, Tetrachloroethylene, Toluene, 2,4,5-TP (Silvex), 1,2,4-trichlorobenzene, 1,1,1-trichloroethane, 1,1,2-trichloroethane, Trichloroethylene, o-Xylene, m-Xylene, p-Xylene. HEAVY METALS reduced by up to 95%: CONTAMINANT HEALTH EFFECTS Lead kidney, nervous system damage Mercury kidney, nervous system disorders Aluminum respiratory, nervous system disorders Cadmium kidney damage Chromium liver, kidney, circulatory system disorders Copper gastro-enteric diseases ALSO REMOVES OR REDUCES: Nitrates, Nitrites, Rust, Silt and Sediment

<SLV> | 03-22-2008 01:33 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 1024207) So in that case, even with a berkey, it's better to collect rain water and then filter that? Cause I don't know if the berkey will remove all the chemicals added or not.
It is best to be on well water with a whole-house RO filter system AND THEN filter with a Berkey before drinking. Water is #2 on the survival list -- just after air. My list is based upon how long you can go without it before you die. Here is "the" list: 1. Air 2. Water 3. Food 4. Shelter 5. Fuel 6. Weapon The above things are the most "valuable" things in the world. Our society has become complacent and we take these things for "granted" (granted by the wonderful state). This is why everyone is shocked when FEMA can't fix everything overnight.

graspAU | 03-22-2008 07:32 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Acording to the CDC, there is no filter on the market now for salmonella. Boiling for 1-3 minutes will kill it (depending on altitude). I guess my procedure will be to boil for 2 minutes (kill salmonella), chlorine (kill viruses), run through Berkey black filters. How do I remove Salmonella from my drinking water? Fully boiling your water for 1 minute (3 minutes if you live in a high altitude) will kill or inactivate the bacteria. Water should then be stored in a clean container with a lid and refrigerated. Currently, there is no filter certified to remove the bacteria from water. This issue is currently being studied. You may also disinfect your well. Contact your local health department for the recommended procedures. Remember to test your well water periodically to make sure the problem does not recur. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/health...salmonella.htm

Ash_Williams | 03-22-2008 07:58 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
It is best to be on well water with a whole-house RO filter system AND THEN filter with a Berkey before drinking. Water is #2 on the survival list -- just after air. My list is based upon how long you can go without it before you die. Here is "the" list: 1. Air 2. Water 3. Food 4. Shelter 5. Fuel 6. Weapon The above things are the most "valuable" things in the world. Our society has become complacent and we take these things for "granted" (granted by the wonderful state). This is why everyone is shocked when FEMA can't fix everything overnight.
The bigshot freemason Manly P. Hall said almost the exact same thing. It's a shame that we misuse and pollute the things we needs the most, in exchange for what we don't need at all.

graspAU | 03-22-2008 08:09 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash_Williams (Post 1024717) The bigshot freemason Manly P. Hall said almost the exact same thing. It's a shame that we misuse and pollute the things we needs the most, in exchange for what we don't need at all.
I went to Target today to buy some rubbermaid tubs, and a blanket. The guy in front of me had a whole cart full of worhtless chinese made easter crap. Total crap made by slaves from poor provinces in China for maybe a dollar a day. Made me want to puke!

Mumwaldee | 03-22-2008 08:12 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
Originally Posted by scottp999 (Post 1024698) Acording to the CDC, there is no filter on the market now for salmonella. Boiling for 1-3 minutes will kill it (depending on altitude). I guess my procedure will be to boil for 2 minutes (kill salmonella), chlorine (kill viruses), run through Berkey black filters. How do I remove Salmonella from my drinking water? Fully boiling your water for 1 minute (3 minutes if you live in a high altitude) will kill or inactivate the bacteria. Water should then be stored in a clean container with a lid and refrigerated. Currently, there is no filter certified to remove the bacteria from water. This issue is currently being studied. You may also disinfect your well. Contact your local health department for the recommended procedures. Remember to test your well water periodically to make sure the problem does not recur. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/health...salmonella.htm
Thanks for the knowledge!

<SLV> | 03-22-2008 08:14 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash_Williams (Post 1024717) The bigshot freemason Manly P. Hall said almost the exact same thing.
Serious? (do you have a link / citation?) I had no idea we had anything in common.

Gknowmx | 03-24-2008 06:54 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
Originally Posted by scottp999 (Post 1024698) Acording to the CDC, there is no filter on the market now for salmonella. Boiling for 1-3 minutes will kill it (depending on altitude). I guess my procedure will be to boil for 2 minutes (kill salmonella), chlorine (kill viruses), run through Berkey black filters. How do I remove Salmonella from my drinking water? Fully boiling your water for 1 minute (3 minutes if you live in a high altitude) will kill or inactivate the bacteria. Water should then be stored in a clean container with a lid and refrigerated. Currently, there is no filter certified to remove the bacteria from water. This issue is currently being studied. You may also disinfect your well. Contact your local health department for the recommended procedures. Remember to test your well water periodically to make sure the problem does not recur. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/health...salmonella.htm
Just to be clear, that cdc link is at least 5 years and no telling how old the information they quote is. A lot of technology has come along since then. While the boiling advise is good, the filtering info may be dated. Salmonella is very similar to E. coli bacteria and I remember years ago there was some dispute as to whether these two bacteria should be considered different species of bacteria. And, there is a difference between what filters can technically do and how the goverment may regulate them, or approve them such as complex medical devices are by the FDA.

TechGuy | 03-24-2008 07:05 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question I have been checking on all of this as well and it looks like the aquarain states that it DOES filter against salmonela and E coli. The microfine pore structure of our ceramic media will remove dangerous organisms such as protozoan cysts (Cryptosporidium, Giardia lamblia) and microscopic bacteria (E. coli, Salmonella typhimurium, etc...). Enclosed within the hard ceramic shell we have incorporated a concentrated bed of Granulated Activated Carbon (GAC) that contains a self-sterilizing metallic silver. The high performance silvered GAC bed will adsorb various organic chemicals such as MTBE and pesticides, remove chlorine compounds including carcinogenic halogens, and improve the taste and odor of the water. To the benefit of good health, our system will also leave unchanged the naturally occurring electrolytes and minerals found in your water. This may have just helped me make up my mind here.... And it is made in the USA.

platinumdude | 03-24-2008 07:10 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question I emailed berkey about their black filter and salmonella yesterday. Will see if they respond or not.

Gknowmx | 03-24-2008 07:18 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1027325) I have been checking on all of this as well and it looks like the aquarain states that it DOES filter against salmonela and E coli. The microfine pore structure of our ceramic media will remove dangerous organisms such as protozoan cysts (Cryptosporidium, Giardia lamblia) and microscopic bacteria (E. coli, Salmonella typhimurium, etc...). Enclosed within the hard ceramic shell we have incorporated a concentrated bed of Granulated Activated Carbon (GAC) that contains a self-sterilizing metallic silver. The high performance silvered GAC bed will adsorb various organic chemicals such as MTBE and pesticides, remove chlorine compounds including carcinogenic halogens, and improve the taste and odor of the water. To the benefit of good health, our system will also leave unchanged the naturally occurring electrolytes and minerals found in your water. This may have just helped me make up my mind here.... And it is made in the USA.
My concerns with all these filters is that these are manufacturer claims. I have not done nearly the research on these devices as you have. While the cdc data seems quite dated, I would rather see the FDA's opinion on these devices. Is there any such info that anyone here is aware of?

TechGuy | 03-24-2008 07:29 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
Originally Posted by Gknowmx (Post 1027349) My concerns with all these filters is that these are manufacturer claims. I have not done nearly the research on these devices as you have. While the cdc data seems quite dated, I would rather see the FDA's opinion on these devices. Is there any such info that anyone here is aware of?
I have not really seen anything. I will say this, the Katadyn filters are used worldwide and replacement filters probably wont be a problem. I was just reading and found this: The aquarain does NOT have silver in the ceramics, only in the charcoal. The berkey CANNOT be primed from dry use using dirty water. An extensive cleaning process must be performed. So, again, I am not sure, sort of looking like the Katadyn may be the safest choice here, if you are concerned about going with any unknowns.

perl | 03-25-2008 12:23 AM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Don't let the water police catch you collecting water in CO. Its illegal!! Crappy state!!! Can't catch any rain water at all. Belongs to someone else!! Did I mention CRAPPY STATE :rant: Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 1024207) So in that case, even with a berkey, it's better to collect rain water and then filter that? Cause I don't know if the berkey will remove all the chemicals added or not.

platinumdude | 03-26-2008 09:24 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Here is the email response I received. " 1. Salmonella specifically has not been tested on our Black Berkey elements. However, smaller bacteria (such as Pseudomonas Aeruginosa) has been tested with total removal (to non-detectable levels). 2. The ceramic filter elements have been tested specifically with salmonella and demonstrated 99.99% removal. 3. We are not familiar with the statement made by the CDC and do not know where they got their information. Perhaps they are referring to the notion that there is no certification for specifically removing salmonella, however there are industry standards for removing pathogenic bacteria, a broader category for which salmonella is included. " I interpret this that if the smaller bateria is stopped, then the larger one (salmonella) should be even more so.

TechGuy | 03-26-2008 09:59 PM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
Originally Posted by perl (Post 1027808) Don't let the water police catch you collecting water in CO. Its illegal!! Crappy state!!! Can't catch any rain water at all. Belongs to someone else!! Did I mention CRAPPY STATE :rant:
You have to be kidding me!!!! This would call for some civil disobedience.

Mumwaldee | 03-27-2008 01:01 AM
Re: berkey and salmonella question Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumdude (Post 1030918) Here is the email response I received. " 1. Salmonella specifically has not been tested on our Black Berkey elements. However, smaller bacteria (such as Pseudomonas Aeruginosa) has been tested with total removal (to non-detectable levels). 2. The ceramic filter elements have been tested specifically with salmonella and demonstrated 99.99% removal. 3. We are not familiar with the statement made by the CDC and do not know where they got their information. Perhaps they are referring to the notion that there is no certification for specifically removing salmonella, however there are industry standards for removing pathogenic bacteria, a broader category for which salmonella is included. " I interpret this that if the smaller bateria is stopped, then the larger one (salmonella) should be even more so.
Groovy, straight from the horse's mouth. :applause_

Glass | 03-27-2008 01:31 AM
Re: berkey and salmonella question I have been looking into this myself. I was keen on making a gravity filter based on the 5 gallon pail type arrangement. Someone else mentioned that earlier. So I only want to get the filters. From what I can tell the filters in the Berkey are Royal Doulton Sterasyl candle type cartridges. They are silver impregnated ceramic. SHEESH Either I am going blind or this information has just been added to the new millenium web site.. been hunting the filter cartridge brand name for ages. As many have commented they are claimed to "effectively remove giardia, cryptosporidium, ammonia, pesticides and herbicides, chloroform, chlorine, algae, rust and dirt, heavy metals, lead, aluminum, mercury, and cadmium. " All the good stuff! Anyway I have found several aussie sources for the filters from about $40 bux each, delivered so I will get some and set about making my own system.

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