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Nuggethunter | 03-17-2006 03:15 PM
Conecting house to Gen-set connecting a generator to the main house fuse box involves installing a lockout box near there. Then plug the generator into that box. Its too complicated for me. So Im gonna call an electrician to come out and do it. As Im on a well and I need the well powered as well. I guess Im gonna pay a couple hundred $ plus parts. Has anyone done this and anything I should be aware of before hand. I dont think there is a safer easier way. :birthday: Silvers on the march and the PTB are on the run, AJ

Ponce Cuba | 03-17-2006 04:02 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set I should do the same with my 5,000 w generator...... have a 2,300 and have a smaler one coming in, a 1,250....... the 100 W I carry with me in my pick up with three 15 w bulbs :D

SilverNuts@Bolts | 03-17-2006 04:14 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set You need a transfer switch [a big box], to which wires, from both power sources connect. Then all you need to do, is transfer manualy, or automaticly [more expensive]. Defenitivly get an licenced electrician to install it for you. Before you hire one, ask, if they did that kind of work before. Most didn't since, it's a specialized field.

Ponce Cuba | 03-17-2006 04:23 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set I know, the transfer box alone cost around $150.00.

gpond | 03-17-2006 04:27 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set To save time with the electrician, be sure to "inventory" the various fuses or breakers and what each one controls before the electrician comes. We have a 6500 watt generator and naturally it won't run everything in the house, so we made some decisions about what we needed to have running before the electrician arrived. We wrote it out on a piece of paper, so we already knew what we wanted before we started wasting the guy's time.

Nuggethunter | 03-17-2006 04:43 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set I'm gonna do all the 110v circuits. Ill inventory all switches (excell pt. , G.). The well and dryer are 240v! I have to do the well! for sure. And I'm gonna do the dryer if feasible. At 5000ft elevation , the dryer may come in handy in the winter to dry clothing. I will make sure the furnace fan is powered up also.

gpond | 03-17-2006 04:47 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set What size generator are you wiring up? How many watts? Just curious. Our 6500 can power most lights, the refrigerator (i think), the well pump, some small appliances. It will not power our heat pump, dryer (no way), stove, etc. I think it will run the microwave if I'm not mistaken. That could be handy. We might have to temporarily shut down some things to run other things. Will keep the waterbed heater on, though, which is good. Brrrrrrr..... PS. The more switches on your transfer switch (box) the more it will cost. I think we ended up with 6 on ours, maybe 8.

Tn...Andy | 03-17-2006 04:50 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set You're gonna need a 10kw generator or so if you plan to hook up an electric dryer.....it will pull 5-6kw by itself.....then you likely have an oversized generator for the rest of the time. I'd re-think that.

Nuggethunter | 03-17-2006 05:03 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set I have 6500w gen. Id have to pull the dryer out to see the amp draw, which I havent done. Ill look in the manual I still have . They pull that much juice? If it does pull that much the dryer is out, clothes lines or in house hanging will suffice. The well , houselights (75wat bulbs), micro oven, refer unit, 110 v furnace fan and the freezer Im buying (10cub ft.). That about it. The well seems to be 220v . Rather deep here 100' plus. Cant really tell. But gotta do the well.

Tn...Andy | 03-17-2006 05:31 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set My 8kw set won't run the dryer if anything else going.....the elements will heat, but the motor is barely running....which means low voltage and you'll burn it up trying to run it. It should be on a 30 amp double pole breaker, and probably pulls 25 amps with the heating elements and motor.....25amp x 220v = 5500 watts.....not counting the start amps on the motor trying to turn that drum full of wet clothes. If your fridge tries to kick in, or you have much else on, you're passed your 6500watts easy. Don't do it.

Ponce Cuba | 03-17-2006 05:36 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Andy? I was going to leave out the electric dryer and the hot water tank, what do you think about the hot water tank? .

gpond | 03-17-2006 05:40 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponce Cuba Andy? I was going to leave out the electric dryer and the hot water tank, what do you think about the hot water tank? .
Andy will give you the right answer, but with my 6500W generator they told me no way. They pull some juice.

gpond | 03-17-2006 05:43 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set I liked that info, Nailbender. Little hard to read, but good stuff.

SilverNuts@Bolts | 03-17-2006 06:21 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Anything, with a heating element is generly out, it just takes to much juice.

GoldWampum | 03-17-2006 07:07 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set One example: http://www.ascopower.com/images/165pdiag.jpg http://www.ascopower.com/images/165P_closed.jpg http://www.ascopower.com/images/165P_open.jpg http://www.ascopower.com/cgi-bin/redirect.pl?/main.htm

SilverNuts@Bolts | 03-17-2006 07:39 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set When you know, the wattage, of the toys you have, it's not as simple, as adding them all together, to come up, with the wattage requirment. The thing is, you would like to have a gen-set to work as close to 100%, as possible; that way it's most efficient. If you have a big set, it might work @ 40% capacity, for 60% of the time and that is unefficiant [costs more]. So, you have to think of the things, that will be on, at the same time. And other things, at other times. As an example, a small heater will not be on the same time, as a window A/C unit. There will be fewer lights on [if any], during the day, compaired to night. That's probably the hardest thing, to figure out. But you can come up, with a ballpark figure [of watts]. The kitchen, is the biggest consumer of power. But, you don't use it all day, only part of the day. You might find, that cutting a 1000 Watts, would fit a specific gen-set. Or you have 1200 watts left over, after all is added up. That's when the compromises kick in. Perhaps changing the microwave, to a smaller unit would be good. Or adding a small 1,500 W cooktop would work. Perhaps putting in solar heating, for the water tank, would take some consumpion off the list. Or a small wind turbine. Possiblies exist, all it takes is dough and some imagination.

GoldWampum | 03-17-2006 08:32 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverNuts@Bolts When you know, the wattage, of the toys you have, it's not as simple, as adding them all together, to come up, with the wattage requirment. The thing is, you would like to have a gen-set to work as close to 100%, as possible; that way it's most efficient. If you have a big set, it might work @ 40% capacity, for 60% of the time and that is unefficiant [costs more]. So, you have to think of the things, that will be on, at the same time. And other things, at other times. As an example, a small heater will not be on the same time, as a window A/C unit. There will be fewer lights on [if any], during the day, compaired to night. That's probably the hardest thing, to figure out. But you can come up, with a ballpark figure [of watts]. The kitchen, is the biggest consumer of power. But, you don't use it all day, only part of the day. You might find, that cutting a 1000 Watts, would fit a specific gen-set. Or you have 1200 watts left over, after all is added up. That's when the compromises kick in. Perhaps changing the microwave, to a smaller unit would be good. Or adding a small 1,500 W cooktop would work. Perhaps putting in solar heating, for the water tank, would take some consumpion off the list. Or a small wind turbine. Possiblies exist, all it takes is dough and some imagination.
Good post. A hybrid, although more expensive is the best way to go. Still what you say about balancing loads and reducing the size of cookery etc are essential to efficiency. Some kind of a stock tank heater could be used to warm water for bathing etc, during lower usage times. Also a means of power storage that could be charged when excess power is available. A full plan requires some thought, engineering and investment for sure. Short of that, balancing loads with a good usage plan and accepting that there will be some less efficient times is about the best that can be done. Another consideration is that above 5000 feet, there will be some derating that occurs for the generator, so a 5kW will struggle to produce it's 5kw and the higher the elevation the less it will produce.

Ponce Cuba | 03-17-2006 08:48 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set HERE YA GO......... DEVICE TYPICAL WATTAGE SURGE WATTAGE Light bulb 60 to 100 watts 60 to 100 watts Fan 75 watts 150 watts Small B/W television 100 watts 150 watts DVD/VCR player100 watts120 watts Small Color television 300 watts 400 watts Home computer and small monitor 400 watts 600 watts Large stereo receiver450 watts450 wattsFreezer, small, or energy efficient refrigerator500 watts800 watts27" color television750 watts750 watts Microwave oven 750 watts 1,000 watts Furnace fan (non capacitor start) 750 watts 1,500 watts Computer, 17" monitor, printer800 watts800 watts1/2 hp electric drill1000 watts1200 watts Refrigerator or medium sized freezer (old style) 1,200 watts 2,000 watts Roaster oven 1,400 watts 1,600 watts Well pump (one hp.) 2,500 watts 3,500 watts Electric water heater 4,500 watts 4,500 watts House AC or heat pump 15,000 watts 30,000 watts With the chart above, you can mix and match various appliances to fit within the maximum surge wattage of a generator.

AMforPM | 03-18-2006 07:26 AM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set We chose solar on the hot water and just powering the fridge, freezer, and 1 room of lights, tv with antenna for news if any, radio, computer if the net is up. We only want to heat and cool 1 room in a crunch. We picked the bedroom. Our super efficient small window a/c draws amazingly little. We use it in the bedroom now and save about $100 a month to our amazement cutting off the big unit at night in the hottest months since we got it. We got 2 smaller generators so we could run the 2nd if for some reason we needed a lot of power and as a backup, but would use less fuel most of the time. We are setting one up to use NG and leaving the other gasoline powered. We are not going to permanently hook it to the house. We got very heavy duty extension cords. We don't want it outside exposed to theft so we set it up in the garage so it can vent with the (non crisis natural gas) hot water heater and be locked in, but not gas us. I have some 12 romex if it looks like we need to use it for long, and can run a more semi-perm set up. We have a solar cook box too, but also, if the NG is off, have a propane tank and stove. For a long bad outage we would cook with wood. Line drying works fine for clothes. If things are wild and wooly and you are in town, you can string a clothes line inside the house. Our clothes washer is low water and low power use, and we have a very small hand crank clothes washer that only needs 1 gallon wash and 1 gallon rinse. It is a lot easier than scrubbing by hand. But that works too. One item at a time in a dishpan. Microwaves are power hogs. And, as Silver said, anything with a heating element. But in our climate - it has been 114 here - a/c is important. So we needed to plan for a cool room. It is rarely cold enough to be dangerous, so we can be reasonably warm from very little added heat. Our house was built in the 30s and has a beautiful stone fireplace in a smallish room intended as the parlor. We use it as a library, but would convert it to our winter all purpose room in a crisis. We have not purchased a cook top wood stove, so cooking there would be like campfire cooking with the dutch oven, etc, unless we get a nice wood stove, which we have not decided whether to do.

Tn...Andy | 03-19-2006 05:57 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponce Cuba Andy? I was going to leave out the electric dryer and the hot water tank, what do you think about the hot water tank? .
You might do the hot water heater with a 5000watt generator, but that could be about all. One thing about a PURE heating element situation is it doesn't care if the power is a little 'brown' ( no....that AIN'T a racial comment...it means the power is lower voltage.....like down in the 200v range instead of the normal 220-240)....it will still heat just fine. But the same thing will kill a dryer because of the motor.....the lower voltage increases the amp draw and heat, burning out the motor. Hot water heaters generally have two elements, and upper and a lower. The elements can be from 2500 watts each to 4500 each, depending on tank size. The upper element comes on first, ( called the 'quick recovery' element), then when the upper half of the tank is heated, it goes off, and the lower element comes on....they usually don't run both at the same time. Best way to tell the size you have is the tank data plate or pull the covers and look at the end of the element plug...it will have the watt rating. Propane or natural gas is THE way to go IMHO for hot water.....especially a tankless deal. You can heat all the water one or two folks will use for 20-50 gallons of propane a year.

Ponce Cuba | 03-19-2006 06:02 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Ok, then I'll go and check out the propane water heater this week, I think that I'll build a small enclosure outside for it.

Tn...Andy | 03-19-2006 06:13 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Yeah......I changed from electric to propane a few years ago....best move we ever made.....now if the power is out, I still have a hot shower.....and it uses very little propane yearly. Now, if I was doing it again, I'd look REAL serious at the tankless versions....small, compact, hang on a wall.....you just need an outside wall for the vent and a small amout of 3/8" copper tubing from the tanks to the heater.....couple 100lb tanks ( about 25 gallons ) and you're good to go for a year or more......probably two years if it's just you alone. The tankless versions are a bit more intially, but you save in the long run over not having a standing pilot and keeping a tank up to temp.

AMforPM | 03-20-2006 01:15 AM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set We got a tankless we have not installed yet and are considering a big propane tank and converting generator 2 to propane so we could cook, have more hot water than the sun provides, and have modest power a long time.

Ponce Cuba | 03-20-2006 01:23 AM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Any links handy Andy hahahahaahahah...... that was a good one.

Tn...Andy | 03-20-2006 08:23 AM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Here's the Paloma from Home Depot site... Bosch is another good one, and that's the one our local Home Depot carries... http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...e=11-7545749-2

fasTTcar | 03-20-2006 08:30 AM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Let me plug the tankless water heaters. They are awesome. I have a Tagaki NG that will handle almost 7 gallons per minute. Never runs out of hot water and about 30% cheaper to run than the tanks. Never understood why you would want to be boiling 60 gallons of water at 3 am in a tank.

mightyspuds | 03-22-2006 03:13 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Another option is to have batteries and an inverter.You can keep the batteries charged via the grid(or solar).Then when power is off you can run a 1000-2000 watt genny as long as needed to keep batteries charged,and pull what you need,when you need it,using your inverter. Benefit is ,a small QUIET genny,optimal fuel usage yet having the ability to pull larger loads.Also not running all the time yet still having usable power. Of course there are conversion and charging losses. Spuds:sheep:

pinetree | 03-22-2006 04:15 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Check first with company supplying your house with power,the meter box which is their box can be changed to a two way box for both their power or what you supply and they may stand some of the cost

boogietillyapuke | 03-22-2006 07:23 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set We have a service cutoff and generator input plug on my secondary service panel on the exterior of the house. The only reason for the cutoff is to isolate you from the grid. Down here a lot of people just pull the meter and wire into it or else "backflow" through the dryer plug. Then again, several people die each year "down here" from electrocution by grabbing wires that they think are cold, usually utility workers trying to restore service. Our 6kw generator usually powers the fridge, freezer, and after sunset a ceiling fan or two. It will also power the small hotel/motel heat pump/AC unit in our sunroom, late at night, after pulling the plugs on the freezer and fridge. Don't tell my neighbors.:aetsch: :aetsch:

Halophyte | 03-22-2006 07:51 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggethunter connecting a generator to the main house fuse box involves installing a lockout box near there. Then plug the generator into that box. Its too complicated for me. So Im gonna call an electrician to come out and do it. As Im on a well and I need the well powered as well. I guess Im gonna pay a couple hundred $ plus parts. Has anyone done this and anything I should be aware of before hand. I dont think there is a safer easier way. :birthday: Silvers on the march and the PTB are on the run, AJ
Fuel is the main concern for longer term usage of a genny. The most efficient generators are ones that do not need to run when you need electrical power. My mini system delivers 110 vac power 24/7 but the genny only runs about 4 hrs a day. Once I replace the generator's alternator with a supercore PMA, and install a larger battery bank, my fuel usage will drop another 20%. My three PV panels and Ametek wind generator also share the gennys work load. My fridge is a LP gas Norcold. .

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hoarder | 03-22-2006 08:25 PM
Thinking out loud If your home has a master disconnect breaker you could just flip it off and hook generator leads to the outputs of two big breakers (backfeed) just for that purpose. Of course you would have to have two spaces available for those backfeed breakers. No transfer switch needed! If you forgot to turn off the master disconnect before starting the generator, it might get interesting... On the tankless heaters, they all have minimum operating pressures. The Paloma has the lowest minimum so you might consider one of those if you have a low pressure water system (gravity cistern).

Tn...Andy | 03-22-2006 08:40 PM
Re: Thinking out loud f your home has a master disconnect breaker you could just flip it off and hook generator leads to the outputs of two big breakers (backfeed) just for that purpose. Of course you would have to have two spaces available for those backfeed breakers. No transfer switch needed! OK if you know what you are doing ( and this IS what I do ), but you can also get someone hurt if you don't....or just screw up. Your ultility company would flip out if they find you doing this....and if you do screw up, you're 100% liable.

Halophyte | 03-22-2006 08:47 PM
Re: Thinking out loud Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy f your home has a master disconnect breaker you could just flip it off and hook generator leads to the outputs of two big breakers (backfeed) just for that purpose. Of course you would have to have two spaces available for those backfeed breakers. No transfer switch needed! OK if you know what you are doing ( and this IS what I do ), but you can also get someone hurt if you don't....or just screw up. Your ultility company would flip out if they find you doing this....and if you do screw up, you're 100% liable.
Yup, it'll knock a lineman right on his ass a few miles down the wire. Especially after it gets stepped up to 880 or 1660 .... Had a customer that wanted his furnace to run on his genny but didn't want the switchgear. I installed a male recept on his furnace and a DPDT switch to use either the genny running outside or line power. Cheap fix. .

hoarder | 03-22-2006 08:50 PM
Re: Thinking out loud Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy Your ultility company would flip out if they find you doing this....
Hehehe. They'd flip out about a lot of things I do. Screw 'em. If they don't provide electricity I have to make my own. I used to work on offshore production platforms and many had transfer switches (multiple generators). That's where I learned to hate those unreliable and expensive things. In many cases we just removed the transfer switch and worked master breakers in the proper sequence with no problems for years.

hystckndle | 03-23-2006 12:35 AM
Re: Thinking out loud Hello, I am working on my back up emergency system( s ) at this time. Just for some minimal lights, small refrig. and cooling...... for anything cooler than 95 with dripping humidty in case of (more) Florida storms....i.e a really small window shaker... hot shower will be from solar.... I am "quick disconnecting" the rather small 5500W genset.... Have 5500 W genset with single phase output. And fuel for three to four weeks of on / off run time. ( keeping with this somewhat non efficient system until I build an additional supply genverter type system like Halo posted of awhile back ) Using S.O type cord with a male outlet on each end. One side of the cord plugs into the gen set output. The other side plugs into a receptacle ( female ) on the outside of the house with a WP / inuse type cover. Receptacle is wired to the main house panel with a 2P breaker marked "generator". Breaker is in OFF position until needed. If power is out and looks to be out for some time....i.e lines on the ground, or substation smoked.... MOP is to: Turn MCB of house panel into the OFF position. Tape off or mark for a safety precaution. Turn OFF any breakers / circuits you are not going to use in this situation. Only circuits that are left ON are the emergency use ones. Connect pre fab gen set power cord to gen set and start gen set Turn the generator breaker in main house panel to the ON position. This means that the generator is now "utility" power. Run generator only for time required. NOTE: the neutral is not switched here, which some might view as a problem. I generally "pull" the meter so that the neutral is broken also. If the neutral is connected, the possiblity exists for a line repair person to get onto an errant current you might have going into the system, and this will really peeve them off... but also it will protect you from the chance of anything coming into your system on the neutral and damaging anything connected in your home in case they get something crossed for a second or two. A transfer switch operation / set up would alleviate this if it switches the neutral....but this ( mine ) is a much smaller ( cheaper ) set up. When power is restored, I back out of generator usage reversing all steps. Many different variations exist on the theme. Just my .02. Regards, Haystackneedle

mightyspuds | 04-10-2006 12:11 AM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set All I can say is mickey mousing electrical hookups is a bad idea.If you cant do it right,just run extensions cords. Spuds:sheep:

bl96S5eu | 04-10-2006 12:24 AM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyspuds All I can say is mickey mousing electrical hookups is a bad idea.If you cant do it right,just run extensions cords. Spuds:sheep:
So my setup isn't something you would recommend?

mightyspuds | 04-10-2006 10:47 AM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by bl96S5eu So my setup isn't something you would recommend?
:eek: :hahaha::afraid: :bash: :hmmmm: That should cover it :haha: Spuds:sheep:

mightyspuds | 04-10-2006 10:54 AM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set I just bought a honda eu-2000I(pure sine wave output) genny,very quiet and fuel efficient.It will charge my 8-Trojan L16 batteries,which in turn power a Heart 458 2000 watt modified sine wave inverter/multi mode charger. Not big power,but will work.The honda also can be connected to another like genny to increase output to 4000 watts. Its a backup home system,with a genny for travelling in the Motorhome. It WONT run A/C or electric hot water,but thats not an issue for me.Portabilty,clean power output and QUIET operation are. But,I can charge batteries and run 2000 watts off them,while also seperately running genny with 2000 watts out,so could potentially pull 4000 watts at once(2-2000 watt seperate circuits) http://www.mayberrys.com/honda/gener...l-rv/rv30a.htm Spuds:sheep:

Nuggethunter | 04-10-2006 11:57 AM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Spuds; Excellent choice. you bought trouble free power for years. Use the best synthetic you can buy and change it often and this gen will last 20 years. There like 4 times the price of all the other junk out there but worth it. I bought the eu 3000. What a great generetor. Quiet -4 hours pergallon, electric start. 1800$ but is worth it. Ive been wanting to pick up the 2000 , great gensssssssss.

hoarder | 04-10-2006 12:06 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggethunter I bought the eu 3000.
I assume that's the Honda EU3000I inverter based generator. I'm torn between getting an EU2000I or a EU3000I. Someone told me the 2000 is not true sine wave and the 3000 is.

mayhem | 04-10-2006 12:31 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Well I've been through three hurricanes in the last two years. I have a 7500 kw with 12000 surge electric start gen set. I just break the main and plug it into the dryer outlet. Haven't killes anyone yet. Next house I might get all the fancy stuff and a diesel or propane (lower rpm and quieter) but for now I can power everything I need (no range) including the 2 ton CA in the bedrooms. I suppose if you are an idiot then go get the transfer box. m

money matters | 04-10-2006 02:47 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Well pumps that are much over 1 hp will have a fairly good amperage draw on start up. You may need 10,000 watts of 120v juice to get the motor running at full power, for 45 seconds or a minute and then your load shifts down to 3500 watts to run the pump enough to fill your pressure tank. If you want a dryer, get a propane dryer. Don't try to get enough juice from a genset to run a 2hp well pump, a 240v dryer, or a hot water heater. The switch boxes purpose is to ensure that your electric generation does not backfeed the pole and shock a lineman down the way. The best way to use a genset is with a battery bank that stores power and an inverter. This way you run the generator only to charge your batteries. Even better is to have some solar panels or a wind generator working passively all the time. If you have an RV, likely you have a better generator than the jobs you might buy at home depot or Farm Supply. Some Welder's are also gensets. Miller has a nice diesel welder that is also a 10K genset. Diesel gensets are the best. Nothing worse (other than no power) than having to run a genset all the time you want electricity. Even Honda's will wear out rapidly (about 6 mos) under continual use. Really a shame to waste your AC power on typical lightbulbs. The spiral fluorescent jobs make super light at about 10 or 15 watts of power load. This way, you get 6 lights for the pull of one typical incandescent bulb. A 2000watt inverter can really do the job, IF you optimize your loads.

Nuggethunter | 04-10-2006 03:03 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder I assume that's the Honda EU3000I inverter based generator. I'm torn between getting an EU2000I or a EU3000I. Someone told me the 2000 is not true sine wave and the 3000 is.
Hoarder; They are 2 really different machines. I know the 3000 will run computers etc, not sure of the 2000. Yes they are invertor and have a fan inside for air circulation. The 2000 is portable and can be carried with 1 arm. The 3000 really isnt portable , its a heavy bastard 100 lbs or so, but will run microwaves, 8600 btu a/c,( 8 amps), and maxes out at about 13 amps. , and will heat a 10 electric h water heater. Id buy em both if I were you. depends what ya want to do with it. Takes 2 people to move the 300 any distance, but if ya need the wattage! Ya ned wattage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 2000 is for tvs, small appliances, lights, stuff like that. I could go on and on but hate typing 2 fingered...... GL

money matters | 04-10-2006 03:30 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set If you are charging a battery, (battery bank) like the guy with the 8 L-16's; YOU NEED AN OUTBOAD AND HIGH-EFFICIENT BATTERY CHARGER!!! Unless a genset is se up for DC power, it is usually coupled to an inefficient battery charger. You can run your generator about half as long if you charge your batteries with a charger rather than use the little auto battery charger built-in to most consumer gensets. I have a Schumacher 100/40/10/2 charger that also has a desulfation cycle. We carry this when we go RVing and it saves time charging the 2 L-16s we use for our cabin 12v power. We have 1500/2500W inverter that works nicely, but the battery takes a long time to charge without this outboard charger. Highly Recommended. Amperage is what you need to keep batteries in good condition. A Trace 4000 series inverter can deliver a 200 amp Equalizing Charge to keep your battery in top condition. Unless you are on an Inter-Tie hookup you won't be able to use that function. Or do you have a 20kw genset? Not to put Honda eqpt down, but any genset operating at 2500 rpm or more is going to fail. Honda has the best warranty, but that does you no good when the repairman is out of business. A low rpm 1700 diesel genset will last for years. Solar panels will last for years. Do you have a charge regulator/controller for your battery bank? Why do you want a sine wave inverter? Even your AC from the power co is not "pure sine wave", yet it works fine. Nice to have your inverter separate from your genset. If you can't rebuild your motor, you still have the inverter. When they are integrated, and you lose one component, you likely lose them all.

mightyspuds | 04-11-2006 07:48 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters Why do you want a sine wave inverter? Even your AC from the power co is not "pure sine wave", yet it works fine. Nice to have your inverter separate from your genset. If you can't rebuild your motor, you still have the inverter. When they are integrated, and you lose one component, you likely lose them all.
The eu2000I is a generator with an inverter integral,putting out pure sine wave,yes,at times even cleaner than Edisons' power. However modified sine wave(many inverters) is really square wave,some being more stepped than others.Unless pure sine wave,anything with a digital clock will NOT operate,some appliances buzz,some stereos wont work,laser printers for sure,some wall warts overheat. Nothing beats pure sine wave for usablity. The comment on the 12 volt power from AC gennies is dead on,you are wasting tons of time and energy trying to charge with the onboard 12v charger.A three or 4 stage charger is the only way to charge a battery bank with a genny,or shore power,or even solar for that matter. Spuds:sheep:

mightyspuds | 04-11-2006 07:57 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggethunter Spuds; Excellent choice. you bought trouble free power for years. Use the best synthetic you can buy and change it often and this gen will last 20 years. There like 4 times the price of all the other junk out there but worth it. I bought the eu 3000. What a great generetor. Quiet -4 hours pergallon, electric start. 1800$ but is worth it. Ive been wanting to pick up the 2000 , great gensssssssss.
Yep,the hondas are awesome.Only got the 2000 for portability.The eu1000I is crazy insane nice,super light and super quiet. The small yamahas are also very quiet and very nice. Some people like the Kipors,if I hadnt been able to get my extremely sold out short supplied honda(must be a reason,no?) I would have tried the Kipor knockoffs of the honda EU series. Congrats on your 3000,they are unlike any genny out there as you well know. And of course,a diesel will last longer.And be heavier,and LOUDER! I like the light towers with the 3 cylinder Kubota diesel,thats a nice genny too. Depends on your priorities as is the case always in life. Spuds:sheep:

Kathy | 04-12-2006 04:27 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Before my husband died he used to use our 10000w gen to run most but not all of the things in our house by just plugging it into an outside outlet that was next to our door. But he'd turn off the main breaker so that power didn't go back out the main box and kill some poor lineman working somewhere. Plus he'd turn off some of the other breakers that we didn't need. This worked pretty good and I hope I'm explaining it right, I've not done it myself. But I know I could walk into any room in the house and the lights would work with the switch. Kathy

hoarder | 04-12-2006 04:39 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy just plugging it into an outside outlet
That's a little risky if you were using more than 20 amps or so, which is about a fouth the capacity of your generator. Those outside outlets are generally hooked up to a 20 amp breaker at the panel which not protect the wire between the outlet and the breaker when the generator is running, because if that wire had a short the breaker would not detect it. In effect you would have a live wire with a breaker on the wrong side of the circuit.

90%RealMoney | 04-12-2006 04:41 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyspuds Yep,the hondas are awesome.Only got the 2000 for portability.The eu1000I is crazy insane nice,super light and super quiet. The small yamahas are also very quiet and very nice. Some people like the Kipors,if I hadnt been able to get my extremely sold out short supplied honda(must be a reason,no?) I would have tried the Kipor knockoffs of the honda EU series. Congrats on your 3000,they are unlike any genny out there as you well know. And of course,a diesel will last longer.And be heavier,and LOUDER! I like the light towers with the 3 cylinder Kubota diesel,thats a nice genny too. Depends on your priorities as is the case always in life. Spuds:sheep:
I bought my parents the 3000 watt Yamaha invertor generator. It is a very nice, and quiet unit. They use it for their 5th wheel trailer. I was going to get the Honda, but there are never any sales on the Honda generators. I got the Yamaha for 1600.00 delivered. I have an older Honda 3500 watt generator, that I bought from a pawn shop. Its the type with wheels,and wheelbarrow type handles. I paid $700.00, and it's brand new! Started on the first pull when I got it home! I'd like to get a larger generator myself, to run the whole house on. Thanks to all for the informative posts!

Kathy | 04-12-2006 04:49 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder That's a little risky if you were using more than 20 amps or so, which is about a fouth the capacity of your generator. Those outside outlets are generally hooked up to a 20 amp breaker at the panel which not protect the wire between the outlet and the breaker when the generator is running, because if that wire had a short the breaker would not detect it. In effect you would have a live wire with a breaker on the wrong side of the circuit.
I think it was a 220v outlet they he was plugged into. He wired it himself just for this reason so he could have done something special to it that I'm not aware of. But we used it for about 4 years and never had a problem with it. Kathy

hoarder | 04-12-2006 05:10 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy I think it was a 220v outlet they he was plugged into. He wired it himself just for this reason so he could have done something special to it that I'm not aware of. But we used it for about 4 years and never had a problem with it. Kathy
OK. That makes sense. He likely had a high amperage double pole breaker and heavy wire between it and the 240VAC outlet (dryer type outlet). That is the classic "back feed" system.

Kathy | 04-12-2006 05:16 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder OK. That makes sense. He likely had a high amperage double pole breaker and heavy wire between it and the 240VAC outlet (dryer type outlet). That is the classic "back feed" system.
Wish I would have said that! lol Kathy

mightyspuds | 04-12-2006 08:25 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Another nice feature on the eu2000I is the eco throttle,being its an inverter,the engine has variable speeds.It runs at 1/4 speed,plugged in hair dryer at mid power,machine kicked up rpms,turned dryer to high and genny runs full throttle. And thanks for for the tip on synthetic oil,i bought 2 quarts,a funnel,and a bottle of sta-bil for the gas,guy says "What kind of genny?" LOL,he said that order is SOP for generators. Darn nice little genny,all in all,but I have to say,the 1000 watters in the real world are even quieter. Spuds:sheep:

Halophyte | 04-12-2006 09:17 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyspuds A three or 4 stage charger is the only way to charge a battery bank with a genny,or shore power,or even solar for that matter. Spuds:sheep:
Nah, a 5 hp Briggs spinning an 80 amp Delco alternator charges battery banks quick, uses little fuel and is super easy to repair if needed. Just don't exceed 1/10 rate of charge - 100 amp hr battery requires 10 amps, 200 amp hr battery bank requires 20 amps .... you get the idea. Use an amp meter and slow down the engine so to not exceed 1/10 rate of charge, the internal voltage regulator will do the rest. My homebuilt genny is welded on my trailer hitch where the LP bottles use to be. A nice 2 kw inverter does the rest of the work. 120 vac power 24/7, without running a smelly, oily, petrol genny all the time. .

mightyspuds | 04-13-2006 09:08 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by Halophyte Nah, a 5 hp Briggs spinning an 80 amp Delco alternator charges battery banks quick, uses little fuel and is super easy to repair if needed. .
No not as fast,an automotive alternator wont hold at a bulk rate,it ramps down pretty quick.Now there are smart regulators out there that you could put on your alternator and even enhace its performance.This is a very popular option on the marine market for charging with an alt. My guess is after just a few minutes you are down to 40 amps even with very depleted batteries.I doubt seriously you can hold any serious high output until the bulk phase,85-90% charged state is met. Another failure is overheating,a typical auto alt. can not sustain high charge rates,it will burn itself up if it did.Another reason I dont think you are optimized. Do you have actual amp readings you could share at various times in the charge cycle,and accurate reads on your batteries charge status,I think you might be surprised. Not trying to ream you or challenge you,I know your system works.Just offering an alternative, a marine rated alternator(heavy duty continous run rated) with a smart regulator will really make your system shine. Its what the boat guys do,and they really know charging and efficiency. Spuds:sheep:

GoldWampum | 04-13-2006 10:29 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
No not as fast,an automotive alternator wont hold at a bulk rate,it ramps down pretty quick.
I don't agree. I have used automotive type alternators on wind gen and found them to be quite linear and stable. Particularly if they are not tucked under a hood and integrated into the main heat source. Heat is then properly dissapated. Boat guys? I've known boat guys. While some are quite resourceful, others only know that high costs and impressive gadgetry = better. Point being that the general group shouldn't be relied on as experts to bolster a claim. Some are just into buying the latest conversation piece.

bl96S5eu | 04-13-2006 11:12 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Have any of you used plans on the internet to build a setup like you're describing? I'd enjoy the project buy have a lot to learn so any dependable build plans out there would be helpful.

mightyspuds | 04-13-2006 11:58 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldWampum I don't agree. I have used automotive type alternators on wind gen and found them to be quite linear and stable. Particularly if they are not tucked under a hood and integrated into the main heat source. Heat is then properly dissapated. Boat guys? I've known boat guys. While some are quite resourceful, others only know that high costs and impressive gadgetry = better. Point being that the general group shouldn't be relied on as experts to bolster a claim. Some are just into buying the latest conversation piece.
Boat people,charging on their alternators,dont use automotive alternators. Yahoos on the lake/river,thats a different story. Any decent liveaboard,traveling boat person,who is a real sailor,not a weekend warrior beer guzzling yahoo,knows how to charge a battery bank with an IC engine.And it isnt using an auto alternator.Its a continous output,heavy duty alternator with stepped regulated charging.At least a 3 stage.And thats NOT what an auto setup does. An auto alt/reg. is made to recharge a slightly discharged battery quickly,not a deeply discharged battery.Then to power accesories,and NOT anywhere close to their maximum output.That is what they are designed to do.Research it.They will melt from the inside out if they were used anywhere close to their rated maximum for more than a brief period. You may have charged batteries with an auto alt with a windmill fairly well. But with an IC engine,its a waste of energy using an auto alternator,you can charge 2-3 times faster,easily,with a three step regulator.You have any serious battery bank,you need a heavy duty continous rated alternator.This is well known and proven,I didnt make it up. Can you set it up cheaper,sure you can,but you are paying for it with terrible charging efficiency and greatly increased fossil fuel costs as a result. And any SAILOR worth his SALT will tell you exactly that.As will any fulltimer in an RV regarding three/four stage charging. There you have it,the facts on how to properly and efficiently charge batteries with an IC engine.Do what you will with the knowledge. BooBoo

GoldWampum | 04-14-2006 02:13 AM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set Spuds, Your smugness and diverted pontification aside. This is what I answered to: Quote:
No not as fast,an automotive alternator wont hold at a bulk rate,it ramps down pretty quick.
And I was correct. An automotive alternator will in fact hold at a bulk rate at a prescribed rpm with proper heat dissipation and is in fact linear across the range. Your assumption that my experience with boat people is only with backwater inbreds is also wrong. Most, although not all, of the people you refer to get their expertise from manufacturers who sell them stuff. Hence, my comment about throwing the bunch out there as the "experts" on electrical and electronic equipment. Also, after 35 years in the power business developing, applying and testing and operating every kind of a system you can think of I will guarantee you that I am probably more schooled about the operation and applications of electrical equipment than 99% of your boat experts. Now, I didn't say there was no use for amplified technological products in high performance situations, only that your recommendation in Halo's case is overkill, which relates to a waste of money. For the application described, as long as a quality automotive type alternator is not tucked into a heat source (the engine) and coupled to the engine shaft, leaving it free to breath, it's efficiency will be close enough to your recommended alternative to render your recommendation a poor return on investment, IMO. In the first place, you misread what he said or at least left the substance of his statement out. Quote:
Nah, a 5 hp Briggs spinning an 80 amp Delco alternator charges battery banks quick, uses little fuel and is super easy to repair if needed. Just don't exceed 1/10 rate of charge - 100 amp hr battery requires 10 amps, 200 amp hr battery bank requires 20 amps .... you get the idea. Use an amp meter and slow down the engine so to not exceed 1/10 rate of charge, the internal voltage regulator will do the rest.
What he is describing, whether the rate is 1/10 or not is the maximum safe current charge for bulk charging. The alternator would be stable regardless of what you claim. That's exactly what the first stage (bulk) of a 3 stage does. The second stage tapers it. For this simple set up, if it's unattended he can have the engine shut off shut off with a simple (and cheap) voltage relay, but he is correct that the internal voltage regulator will unload it anyway. He hasn't indicated any desire for a float, which is the 3rd stage. Afterall it's deep cycle. He can just cycle it. A 3 step has it's place, but not in this application as described. Sure, it'll work fine, but it's overkill. Halo can hold his 10 amps or 20 amps, as described on an 80 amp delco quite well through rpm control. He knows it and I know it through practical experience.

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mightyspuds | 04-14-2006 12:57 PM
Re: Conecting house to Gen-set I gave the facts on charging a battery bank efficiently,I gave the facts on how an alternator works per its design.I gave the facts on how pro's charge a battery bank with an IC engine,or solar for that matter. If you want it done right,use those facts. Want to do something else,go for it. Wampum you are obviously the worlds expert on alternators and chargers.:bowdown::bowdown: I wont dare challenge you,King of electricity,everyone else is fools. If you want to charge 10-20 amps with a 5 HP engine,go for it,now thats serious efficiency there. Another forum wasted Im afraid. You are simply looking for a fight Wampum,well stick it,you are a waste of time,just like your little group of 5 dedicated to making this board a wasteland for your endless uninformed,uneducated posts. Spuds:sheep:

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