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demosfen | 12-03-2008 06:08 PM
purchasing power of silver WSHTF Here is an interesing observation from famine in ancient Samaria regarding what an ounce of silver will buy you. 2 Kings 6:24 Later King Ben Hadad of Syria assembled his entire army and attacked and besieged Samaria. 6:25 Samaria�s food supply ran out. They laid siege to it so long that a donkey�s head was selling for eighty shekels of silver and a quarter of a kab of dove�s droppings for five shekels of silver. A kab is about a quart and a shekel is about 1/3 oz. So it's 27 oz for a donkey head when S really HTF (Not sure what dove's dropping are useful for. Fuel?) Also, for those who are not prepared - a scam to avoid WSHTF 2 Kings 6:26 While the king of Israel was passing by on the city wall, a woman shouted to him, �Help us, my master, O king!� 6:27 He replied, �No, let the Lord help you. How can I help you? The threshing floor and winepress are empty.� 6:28 Then the king asked her, �What�s your problem?� She answered, �This woman said to me, �Hand over your son; we�ll eat him today and then eat my son tomorrow.� 6:29 So we boiled my son and ate him. Then I said to her the next day, �Hand over your son and we�ll eat him.� But she hid her son!�

Dave | 12-04-2008 08:43 AM
Re: purchasing power of silver WSHTF WTSHF, Gold and silver will buy you nothing when people are starving. Who in their right mind would sell food for something that has no tangible use? Seriously, an oz of gold today would buy you at least 20 buckets of wheat. An ounce of gold after TSHTF has NO guarantee to buy you anything. Though, if I were the man holding the wheat I might let you buy a bucket for an ounce of gold if I felt like I could let go of it. Bartering will be the only thing going on for quite a while after TSHTF. Only after things stabilize and a general consensus develops of the exchange rate of gold and silver against other commodities is established will it become useful. Even then, wouldn't you rather be the guy with the store of goods for sale than the customer with gold or silver buying at the mercy of what the market will bear? Gold and Silver will only be good investments if the collapse is not severe and the "grid" remains up. This of course is a gamble and personally, I have NO idea of whether or not this will be a grid up or grid down collapse. Dave

ruprick | 12-04-2008 09:00 AM
Re: purchasing power of silver WSHTF I agree with Dave.....our metal is way better that a piece of paper.....but only in a world short of Mad Max. We may go mad max for a short period of time - a few months or more....but if central Africa can function....this is my benchmark for SHTF...as it has never not been SHTF.....I'm sure you can buy all the food you need there as long as you have silver and gold.

JoBob | 12-04-2008 09:04 AM
Re: purchasing power of silver WSHTF Good response, Dave. You will know that the S has really HTF when gold and silver are worthless because they are not food. The idea of exchanging SAEs for the fat kid next door is not my idea of an appropriate survival option. A good stock of freeze-dried anything is the best defense. Don't worry about the "what's it worth" question because there is no answer to that.

SLV>GLD | 12-04-2008 09:31 AM
Re: purchasing power of silver WSHTF I have long been of the understanding that the mantra here is to prep with food and necessities and THEN PMs. The idea being that the food and preps get you through the period where money is dead, barter thrives and keeping your head down is the best move. Once this period passes the theory is that PMs will emerge as the best store of value next to actual food and preps. This line of thinking strikes me as being perfectly reasonable with little room for catastrophic error.

Ag_man | 12-04-2008 11:41 AM
Re: purchasing power of silver WSHTF One of the best descriptions of the development of post SHTF economies was in Whitely & Striber's book Warday. After a limited nuclear war, the US was reduced to a 2.5 World economy. Massive deflation, the US was at the mercy of Japan and Europe for food/reconstruction aid. Barter and use of PMs were described, as well as the beginnings of regional fiat currencies. Just wondering, what's the exchange rate for a donkeys head or dove droppings, these days?:wink:

demosfen | 12-04-2008 04:11 PM
Re: purchasing power of silver WSHTF I think you are stretching it too far when you are saying silver will be 'worthless'. Silver still will buy what is for sale. The issue is that most things, certainly food and anything that has to be imported, won't be for sale.

JoBob | 12-04-2008 04:45 PM
Re: purchasing power of silver WSHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by demosfen (Post 1449488) I think you are stretching it too far when you are saying silver will be 'worthless'.
I agree with you and i didn't mean that as a wholesale appraisal. It was an unintended stretch. I was focused on the depth of a bad situation where acquisition of food is everyone's top priority. When you are on the verge of starvation, you aren't going to sell food no matter how much silver you are offered. I think that's the test of being at the bottom of a SHTF situation. It doesn't matter what the value will be next month if you are in danger of starving to death before then. Once that crisis has passed, gold and silver will have preserved whatever wealth went into them before the situation began and will be one of the only artifacts of the "before" economy to have any definable worth. Gold and silver are used for purchases. Goods are exchanged for goods in barter. In down-and-dirty scenario, purchases may be common before TSHTF but barter would probably be more common in the initial recovery stages. I may be more interested in trading you the turnips i just grew for your axe than in accepting SAEs for the turnips when no one else around has an axe. Behavior theory, of course, rarely turns out the way we hope it will. Stock up on edibles first. We know we will want to eat while pondering exchange rates.

Master_Ho | 12-04-2008 05:19 PM
Re: purchasing power of silver WSHTF Quote:
Originally Posted by demosfen (Post 1447486) (Not sure what dove's dropping are useful for. Fuel?)
Food................ and the correct translations is Dove's Dung, not droppings. If I remember it properly from my class notes - "Dove's Dung" was a sort of ground chickpea mixture. I'll doulbe-check and, if I was incorrect, I will post a correction - but I am 95% certain it was made from gorund chickpeas. EDIT - HERE YOU GO! dove's dung This probably denotes, as Bochart, Scheuchzer, and others suppose, a kind of {pulse}, or {vetches}, which the Arabs still call {pigeon's dung}. `They never,' says Dr. Sahw, `constitute a dish by themselves, but are strewed singly as a garnish over {cuscasowe, pillowe}, and other dishes. They are besides in the greatest repute after they are parched in pans and ovens; then assuming the name {leb-lebby;} ' and he thinks they were so called from being pointed at one end, and acquiring an ash colour in parching. http://bible.cc/2_kings/6-25.htm

Txkstew | 12-10-2008 07:33 PM
Re: purchasing power of silver WSHTF The best thing PM's will buy, is safe passage, if movement is restricted. It'll be accepted for bribes to guards and officials, and payment to human smugglers or operators of transport, like ships and trucks.

GreenSpirit | 12-10-2008 08:11 PM
Re: purchasing power of silver WSHTF [QUOTE=demosfen;1447486]Here is an interesing observation from famine in ancient Samaria regarding what an ounce of silver will buy you. 2 Kings 6:24 Later King Ben Hadad of Syria assembled his entire army and attacked and besieged Samaria. 6:25 Samaria�s food supply ran out. They laid siege to it so long that a donkey�s head was selling for eighty shekels of silver and a quarter of a kab of dove�s droppings for five shekels of silver. Pigeon poop was very popular? :thumb.aspx:

Argentsum | 12-10-2008 08:30 PM
Re: purchasing power of silver WSHTF According to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekel A shekel was, very roughly, 11 grams (180 grains) which translates to a little over a third of a troy oz. A Kab was an ancient Hebrew measurement equal to about two liters.

.925 | 12-12-2008 04:12 PM
Re: purchasing power of silver WSHTF PMs will be very useful for recovery after TSHTF period. If it gets to the point that every man is for himself, and food is not for sale at any price, lead will be worth more.

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