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cb&julie | 04-27-2006 06:00 PM
AK-47 Good gun or not? We are buying up arms a great deal more and I wonder if I will be able to use this gun well. I'm pretty small and a woman- any thoughts?

Pragmatist | 04-27-2006 06:10 PM
Re: AK-47 13 year olds kill people with them every day. Great design. Simple and nearly indestructible. Norinco, Mac 90 is a Chinese knock of, less than 500$. Rent "Lords of War", if you haven't seen it. The AK is practically the star of the film. But to answer your question, Yes. Probably the best design ever manufactured. Prag

Prometheus | 04-27-2006 06:23 PM
Re: AK-47 Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatist But to answer your question, Yes. Probably the best design ever manufactured.
By far the most reliable. I agree. If you are really concerned about recoil (the AK47 isn't that bad by any means), might I suggest an AK-74. Same weapon except in a smaller caliber (similar to the M16 round). Youc an carry twice as much ammo as well since the mags are a polymer and the ammo is about half as heavy (roughly). I bought several SAR2's (AK74 varient) for my wife (she loves hers) and for the kids. The magazines are the same price or a little less than the 47's (although buy them now, they will dry up for a bit I predict) and the ammo is about the same price as well. Either one will serve you well and you won't be dissapointed. We own more AK's than most women have shoes ;)

Walter Mitty | 04-27-2006 06:47 PM
Re: AK-47 I suggest an AR-15. A little more pricey but lower recoil. Needs to be kept clean but a Bushmaster , Armalite or Rock River Arms should be pretty reliable. Say a 16" bbl model w/ Nato chamber and chromed lined bore and chamber. Wolf is coming out with ammunition loaded with a 75 grain open tipped bullet with a velocity of about 2700 fps that is tailor made to stabilize in 1/9 twist barrels. This should help in the stopping power arena. Stick with Winchester Q3131, Q3131A, Federal M193, Lake City M855 Ammo. and the New Wolf ammo mentioned above which hopefully will be good quality stuff. Just my .02.

Pragmatist | 04-27-2006 06:56 PM
Re: AK-47 I forgot to mention that you can get the Norinco in .223 NATO caliber (as Prometheus mentioned). I recommend that over the .762 Warsaw Pact round. It will alway be easier to find (.223) and I think it is a better round. Prag

REV127 | 04-27-2006 09:00 PM
Re: AK-47 AK's own reliability and durability. Nothing else comes close. They can be had in just about any caliber you could want, too. The Rob Arms Vepr series is the most accurate, but the heaviest, the stamped recievers are the lightest, and the Arsenal Inc milled reciever AK's possess great durabiltiy, accuracy and not bad weight. If you want hitting power through brush or walls and car bodies in an urban environment, get the 7.62x39. If you want light ammo and light recoil, get a 5.56x45 AK. The AK-74's are good, but they can be hard to find ammo for. 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 are both manufactured here in the States and have strong support in the reloading/handloading market. The M-16A2 left me cold. I haven't had better experiences with the AR-15's. Sure, they have an accuracy edge, but they are finicky, parts are easier to lose and break, and they don't go bang every time without a lot of attention. People try to tell me they ave good ergonomics, but they vent hot gasses into my shooting eye causing blurred vision. Really great on the range and like any gun they can kill, just not what I am looking for. Anyway, what kind of environment do you live in? In built up country the 7.62x39 is an awesome weapon. In open country you may want something with a longer effective range, like .30-06, .308, 7.62x54r, 8mm Mauser, etc. If you do get an AK, pay a little extra for quality. The difference between a Vector Arms, Arsenal Inc, Vepr, MAK-90 or similar and something low end like a Romanian WASR is night and day. You don't even always get reliabilty or durability with the WASR series.

Prometheus | 04-27-2006 09:13 PM
Re: AK-47 Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatist I forgot to mention that you can get the Norinco in .223 NATO caliber (as Prometheus mentioned).
Actually I was talking about the 5.45x39 round the AK74 was/is chambered for, not to mention 1k round of 5.45x39 is still about 12 cents a rounds. If one wants a .223 (5.56x54) get an AR15, alot cheaper mags than a .223AK. Ammo availablity is something you worry about for a spare or bacup weapon. You should have thousands of rounds set aside for your primary anyway. Chances of being able to scavange more than a box of ammo at a time probably won't be likely in SHTF. Who knows, thats why you cache ammo. Anyway, she's talking about AK's so I'm thinking she wants rounds intended for the AK. Im a purist and I I want something as it was intened. Start getting into remade or reworked mags and such (like a .223 ak really is) and i's just one more thing to go wrong. IMO ppl get the AK because they want to have something thats going to go bang 99.999999999999999% of the time... everything else is just gravy. I have AK's with 5k+ rounds thru them that have never malfuctioned. One I fired over 2k rounds thru before cleaning it, never an issue. They just flat out work and I don't want anything getting in the way of that. Thats just me and people sometimes say I'm particular about my weapons :character

dust_bunny | 04-27-2006 09:26 PM
Re: AK-47 Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus By far the most reliable. I agree.
Yes they will reliably fire a round. Now where that round ends up is an entirely different matter. There was a documentary on one of the channels a while back with excellent high speed film analysis. The tolerances on it are horrible, which does help the ability to suck in mud etc and keep firing, but the flex was crazy. So if you plan to just spew a lot of rounds and hope you hit something close then it's fine.

Prometheus | 04-27-2006 09:38 PM
Re: AK-47 Quote:
Originally Posted by dust_bunny There was a documentary on one of the channels a while back with excellent high speed film analysis. The tolerances on it are horrible, which does help the ability to suck in mud etc and keep firing, but the flex was crazy. So if you plan to just spew a lot of rounds and hope you hit something close then it's fine.
First problem with that is "I saw on one of the channels"... TeeVee sucks. Especially for guns. Even the 'hunting' channels get it wrong half the time. At 300 yards with iron sights an AK47 or AK74 will hit a stop sign 100% of the time with the cheapest crappiest wolf ammo. How often will one be able to see an enemy at 300 yards, let alone see anything that far because of buldings or trees? How often will one need to be more accurate than that? All legitimate questions, but to act like the AK47 isn't accurate instead of isn't the most accurate is a huge difference. Most people aren't even skilled enough with a rifle to get the full use of an AR15 anyway. The older you get the worse the eyes for iron sights, so once again, it really doesn't matter. If your not planning on scoping your rifle, the AK is bascally just as good for 90% of shooters. If your planning on scoping your rifle, why use an AR? There is a reason why you don't see scopes on M16's/M4's in the military. Their are better platforms to put a scope on. Different strokes for different folks, I love my bushmaster AR15s, I also love my AKs. If I could only have one of the two to last me forever on a desert island, it's be the AK (either 47 or 74 depends on the wildlife) over an AR anyway.

REV127 | 04-27-2006 11:44 PM
Re: AK-47 5.56 has SS109 enhanced penetration ammo available for it. Hard to find the equivalent in 5.45, that's what seals the deal between the poodle calibers for me. Many countries that use AK's are switching to 5.56, the guns work fine. Some poor quality AK's like the Romanians have problems. My ultimate would be a milled AK rechambered for 6.5 Grendel. It would have superior ballistics and retain the tapered case as well as compatability with all my 7.62x39 mags. If the whole system doesn't fall apart first I'm going to get one of these built. It will pwn. As far as magazines go, the AK mag and the AR mag aren't even in the same league. The AR mag is one of the major glaring poor design elements in the platform, and they're relatively delicate. I've severely dammaged them in training just by landing on them and I don't weigh much. AK mags on the other hand are the most reliable, durable feeding device on the planet and can double as a hammer in the construction of your retreat. If you don't want the weight, use the Bulgarian waffles. A good 5.56 AK mag will set you back around $20. The specially redesigned high reliability AR magazines will set you back $45+. Another no thanks vote for that platform. The 20rd AR mags do seem to work ok though, but still not nearly as durable as AK mags. AK's are plenty accurate. Using Wolf 7.62x39 122gr fmj my MAK-90 can make head shots at 100 yards. Folding stocks are another highlight of the platform. The AR caries its recoil spring in the buttstock. I don't know why, it is just weird. As a result you have to change the gas system on your AR to get a folding stock on it. Telescoping stocks just don't even compare to an AK with a good sidefolder.

Prometheus | 04-28-2006 12:35 AM
Re: AK-47 Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew Battle tested by a buddy of mine in 'The Stan' AND Iraq. He started out carrying the AKS and was not pleased with the overall functionality. When he finally was able to get an AMD65 he was VERY happy. Great weapon to carry in the vehicle. And a great all around weapon.
You lost me on that on many levels. First off, why did he have an AKS the S is for semiautomatic. That in and of itself is strange, about the only AKS's are here in the USA because Class 3 firearms are expensive / too hard to get (banned from import, manufacture yada yada). Next you say he got an "AMD65" and was very happy. Weird. Other than cosmetics, they are identical weapons. It's like saying "The M16 functioned like crap, but he got an M4 and it was awesome". It makes no sense. Are you sure your buddy wasn't A- f@(king with a newbie to the gun world or B- a liar and has no clue what he was talking about? From your talk of "more lethal" round over another, it would seem yuo're somewhat new to firearms. If you were into 'leathal' you'd be saying no way to a wimpy 7.62x39 and talking up the .308 NATO round... maybe even pushing hard for a 50 BMG, now tehre is some real 'lethal' stuff :haha:

Prometheus | 04-28-2006 12:50 AM
Re: AK-47 Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 5.56 has SS109 enhanced penetration ammo available for it. Hard to find the equivalent in 5.45, that's what seals the deal between the poodle calibers for me.
Over rated IMO and still no real core anyway. The good stuff has been gone for many years. It sucks too. If you are looking for penetration, the AR and AK74 aren't the right call. *Again for newbies tuning in , this is not to be taken as a 'dis' on those platforms, I own them and would trust my life to the ones I own. Quote:
A good 5.56 AK mag will set you back around $20. The specially redesigned high reliability AR magazines will set you back $45+. Another no thanks vote for that platform. The 20rd AR mags do seem to work ok though, but still not nearly as durable as AK mags.
Good AR milspec magazines made by bushmaster or D&H ect. ect. work perfectly fine. Aftermakets should be avoided 100% of teh time for this platform, they are beyond horrible. NIB D&H 30 round magazines with the 'famous' green followers can be bought at 10 bucks each if you order groups of 10 or more. 10 bucks for brand new teflon coated mag? Whats not to love. Quote:
The AR caries its recoil spring in the buttstock. I don't know why, it is just weird. As a result you have to change the gas system on your AR to get a folding stock on it.
The receiver of the AR is too short, not only is the recoil buffer and spring in the buttstock, but the bolt carrier actually moves into the buttstock as well while it cycles. No way to change the gas system on an AR so as to put an actually folding stock on it. Even AR pistols have that 4" or so tube sticking out of the back end, the bolt carrier has to go somewhere in order to feed rounds. FWIW I'm not a fan of the telescoping stock, you only gain a few inches of lenght and sacrifice (among otehr things), a place to carry a cleaning kit and something to butt stroke a non cooperative person. Even the best made tele stocks will give when impacting on a person head or similar solid object. I do like folders on the AK and Uzi for example. They take ALOT of length of the weapon.

REV127 | 04-28-2006 01:13 AM
Re: AK-47 Yes, the 5.56 penetrator, er, nub, load is not the most impressive AP in the world. I stock Mosins for that duty, you can still find API and even explosive :eek: ammo for those old smokepoles, though you pay for it. .30-06 is another good one for that kind of duty. I just see it as a matter of value added. Otherwise 5.45 is a great round and I like that it is based on tumbling rather than fragmenting wound effect. I'll take lesser output for greater reliability. Too bad some shortsighted politicians won't let us have the good stuff. :( What's not to love about $10 AR mags, for me anyway, is again durability and reliability. AK mags will keep trucking long after the AR mags have outlived their service life. Well, plus my AK mags cost me less than three bucks a piece. $10 for the Bulgie waffles. :D Aftermarkets are good to avoid in the AK platform as well, though I hear the Promags are getting better, even if they require fitting. It still doesn't make sense to buy them unless you want special colors since the Bulgarian waffles are cheaper. I'm intimately familiar with AR's. I can field strip the things blindfolded, in under thirty seconds when I practiced. I was really more questioning *why* the AR was designed with the recoil spring in the butstock. This is an oddity shared with the FAL, too. It didn't have to be that way before they actually built the thing. It's like the straps on the old ALICE packs or velcro front closure on the PASGT vest. WTF? ...and I like having a sharpening stone on the back of a sheath. Anyway, I don't mean to turn this into an AR/M-series hate thread. The AK stands on its own. If you need a durable, reliable, low maintenance weapon for urban, woods or swampy terrain, something that will operate in sand or snow, the AK will deliver.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 04-28-2006 01:19 AM
Get one! Excellent firearm, you'll love it. Goes BANG forever and ever ad infinitum, even when your maintenance program isn't what it ought to be. I recommend one in 7.62 x 39. Romanian and folding-stock Yugos can be had at decent prices right now, but I'd act sooner as opposed to later. HTH. Stay safe... HMGH7

REV127 | 04-28-2006 09:39 PM
Re: AK-47 I was under the impression that AKS designated a folding stocked AK. The 7.62x25 is an awesome round, actually it's my very favorite handgun cartridge at this point in time. Currently The gun I have that's chambered for it is a CZ-52. I actually have two but I'm trying to fix the decocker on one so it's in pieces. The other one is 100%, decocker works and I installed a Harrington firing pin that makes it safe to dry fire and lightens the trigger pull. My dream is a modern fullsize doublestack combat pistol in 7.62x25. You can use fancy ammo to cut down on overpenetration when you don't want it, but dang is that fast, skinny, powerful round ever sweet when it comes to an urban sidearm. It's not a rifle, but it'll zip through most stuff like nobody's business. It is a crime that nobody's built a modern pistol in this caliber. Something like a CZ SP-01.

Prometheus | 04-29-2006 12:34 AM
Re: AK-47 Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew And reread what I said about the 'FUNCTIONALITY' of the AKS. It's design is a POOR COPY of the HUNGARIAN AMD 65. Functionally speaking the AMD 65 is head and shoulders above the AKS.
As far as I can tell the only country to produce an AKS was china... The civie version of their AKM (taken directly from the russian AK-47). The AKM in CHina was being produced well before the AMD65 (the 65 is for 1965). Not sure how one can copy something that doesn't exsist. Quote:
Have YOU actually SHOT a 50 BMG in bolt action? It is a MOTHER to shoot.
I was being sarcastic about your comments about how 'lethal' a round was. I wasn't advocating cbjulie go out and buy one. :rolleyes: 50's are great fun. Liek my 8mm mauser, I don't put alot of rounds thru it because I value my shoulder (and wallet when it comes to the .50) :wink: Quote:
So YAH, my info is suspicious. I don't know what I'm talking about and am a NOOB.
While your comment about being a member of the gun culture is intriging, I'll set it aside for the moment and close with this: I've met numerous soldiers who couldn't even remember what "that mean looking black rifle I had was" within a few months of being discharged. Using someones military service as an indication of their firearms knowledge is like using someones police service. It doesn't mean except the can probably guess a little better than the average sheeple which ends the bullets are susposed to come out. Not a flame, just the truth. If you are a member of the gun culture (as John Ross would say) you'll understand exactly what I'm talking about. I'm going to stand by my inital post in that you make it sound like AK's suck and AMD65s are somehow superior. That is incorrect.

J.D.Rockinfeller | 04-29-2006 12:53 AM
Re: AK-47 One thing you may want to consider is ; are you planning to "bug out' in grizz country?? I love all the .223 calibers....but as it is I feel slightly under gunned even with 7.62x39...given where I live...when I go out in the bush IM on the menu!!..just somethig to consider... GLTY, JD.

Prometheus | 04-29-2006 01:13 PM
Re: AK-47 Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew kindly give evidence that the AKS IS a better weapon by someone who ACTUALLY CARRIED ONE IN COMBAT AND USED IT FOR MORE THAN ONE YEAR. I did for the AMD65.
Sorry one guy (susposedly) deployed overseas using an AKS for an entire year.... and somehow you expect me to take that as some sort or difinative answer? :haha: You can't be serious. It's dificult to figure out if this guy was active military when he carried one or contract, I find it hard to believe his commanders let him any sort of AK for an entire year. Most contractors also frown upon the use of them due to friendly fire concerns. I also find the story of being surrounded by 30 tangos and 4 guys in a pickup ( I would assume that was contract?) scaring them off with 2 istols and 2 rifles.... Something else I find odd is that they had beretta 92fs. Most contract guys wouldn't be caught dead with one, they carry primarily glocks and some sigs or HK's. Yet another curious part of your stories. Tell you what, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your buddy hit the loser jackpot and wound up with one of the few poorly functioning AKS'. :hahaha: What I still don't understand is why it took him a year to figure it out.

mrdirp | 04-29-2006 01:19 PM
Re: AK-47 I use an Egyptian Maadi Ak...would go target shooting with it and prop the target against a tree...wouldnt be too long before the tree would fall over, if that tells you something about the weapons power...

GREENSILVERHORN | 04-29-2006 02:23 PM
Re: AK-47 One thing to look for is a "milled" vs. "stamped" reciever. Milled being superior, this was my choice. http://www.sksboards.com/forum/viewt...d29362f0765408 Haven't had 1 loading failure in about 800 rnds. True as an HT too.:wavey:

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