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Hivemindgammahydra7 | 12-03-2006 07:12 PM
Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? My CCW piece is a 1911A1, but I'm eye-balled an old S & W revolver made for a South American contract in .45 ACP. It has seen use but seems to cycle and function well. Although it has a C & R collectible quality I'm thinking about it for home defense purposes. You know, no thumb safety or grip safety to worry about, just pick it up, pull the trigger and BANG. Right? Or am I in error about the simplicity and utility of these? I've shot revolvers here and there but have never owned one, so thought I'd ask. Prometheus, you out there..?

REV127 | 12-03-2006 07:35 PM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? Actually I've seen the revolver you're talking about in a local shop. For home defense a fullsize 1911 can hold 8+1 rounds of .45acp and feed reliably with the right magazine. That, plus the much faster reload pretty much outclasses the revolver for practical use. I still like revolvers for other purposes, such as the mighty .357mag that I keep handy for road trips... it works well against vehicles and won't eject a shell into my face and I have my primary carry for a quick reload anyway.(I'm sure it would ring my bells, though) There is also a shooting technique that I have never mastered that allows you to fire a three shot burst from a single action or DA/SA revolver that is far faster than anything you can get out of a semi-auto just because the lockspeed on the semi is inherently much slower. One could make an argument for the efficacy of such a triple tap against one or two bandits, but I don't see it as being a major improvement over a semi auto's doubletap or sustainable rate of fire. If you already know how to run a 1911 I don't think the lack of safeties is going to matter too much either, though I am generally annoyed by grip safeties. I personally keep a double action/ single action autoloader in condition 2 on the dresser within arm's reach, right next to a 45 lumens flashlight and a freakishly large Siamese-mix cat.

hoarder | 12-03-2006 07:57 PM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? Cocked and locked under my pillow is not in my comfort zone. Double action revolver or double action semi-auto for me.

Au_Ag | 12-03-2006 08:17 PM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? Revolvers have their pros and cons. IMHO, they're great for home use when you have individuals who will not become familiar with a firearm, won't/can't go to the range and practice. A double action swingout cylindar is easy to check if the gun is loaded. Easy for the unitiated to use, no safety, no racking of the slide - If you leave them fully loaded for a long period - you have no concerns about magazine spring tension. Family and friends who are like the above - I often recommend a revolver. Downside - limited round count, hard to reload quickly/smoothly - IMHO, slightly less reliable. More downside - usually rudimentary sights - double action trigger pull, neither of which is likely an issue for their intended purpose. unless "hammerless" the hammer can become caught on your clothing when you try to pull it out if you stick it in your pocket. I have both. I use both. Each has their purpose.

____hoot____ | 12-03-2006 09:46 PM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? Long gun guy here, but I do have one little pop gun around. [Here woman, just aim it and keep pulling the trigger] type. Should let you guess what could be so simple, failsafe and controlable; but will tell you. "Cheap" 9 shot 4" barrel H&R model 922 that I picked up used for $50 long ago. Never found a woman or a little kid that couldn't hit a man sized target somewhere evertime at 30 feet with it. If I do my part, I can hit a head sized target everytime at 30 yards with it[necessary skill with any hand gun when dealing with big dangerous critters with or without kevlar]. And at only 18 ounces, I can carry it and a couple hundred rounds of ammo in my bug-out bag at the same weight as a "real" pistol with just a full clip or chamber. I use 60 grain subsonic 22's in it.

electric-amish | 12-03-2006 11:10 PM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? There is something cool about a Revolver. Kim Detoit wrote a Revolver is like a Fork it works every time. Electric-Amish

Walter Mitty | 12-04-2006 06:30 PM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? Maybe use it as a trunk gun. I.E keep it in your vehicle for emergencies.

Kahlil Gibran | 12-04-2006 08:29 PM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? Quote:
Originally Posted by skyvike (Post 434842) This fits well with my theory about the type of guy you might have to shoot: Either he's gonna be so hyped up on adrenaline or drugs, he won't give up until he bleeds out or you shoot something really important (like his spinal cord). In which case, I don't think the difference between 9mm, .40. 45 ACP, or .38 much matters. Depending on the clothes and equipment the guy wears, the .22 might just piss him off unless you get some good head shots. I think these guys would not be as numerous as the second type: The second type of guy will lay down and cry for mommy if you shoot him in the leg with a .22 short. In which case, you have the perfect weapon. :wavey:
Since we are just offering differing opinions here: the second type of guy is unlikely to appear IN your occupied home. :smile:

Au_Ag | 12-04-2006 08:35 PM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? Quote:
Originally Posted by skyvike (Post 434842) , the .22 might just piss him off unless you get some good head shots.
I never will forget reading years ago where a member of the " New York Stakeout Squad" put five 38 specials into a perpetrator -several in his face, IIRC and the guy was talking and moving around when the ambulance got there. I personally would not attempt to use a .22 for self defense unless there were no other options. One thing that hasn't been touched on in this thread, and is often neglected - Bullet options. A round that I would consider marginal such as the .38 or 9mm can be considerably beefed up with quality ammunition to the point that it is no longer marginal. Such ammunition is pretty expensive - but hey - you don't use it for practice. The definitive source for information relating to stopping power of handgun rounds - in domestic/civilian situations http://www.stoppingpower.net/

Abouthadit | 12-04-2006 08:50 PM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? 2 Attachment(s) .45 ACP or .357 magnum. If a semiauto then buy the most expensive magazines and the meanest hollow points. If a wheel gun, go with the best man stopper ammo. If your life is going to depend on it, you want it to work every time with the most killing power available.:beer: Practice reloading under stress and spend some time at the range. A good idea is to do a walk through in you own dark house some night. Get some practice rounds, squeeze off six, reload, squeeze off another six, reload, etc. It is a lot easier with a semi auto. My 2c.

Argentsum | 12-04-2006 09:19 PM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? So the SA holds 9 rounds and the revolver holds 6. I think either would work adequately for a home defense/confrontation situation. If your still in danger after shooting six times your into something well beyond confronting a burglar. Unless of course your dealing with a gang of strung out meth addicts. Then your pretty much screwed unless you've got something that sprays death like water from a firehose.

REV127 | 12-04-2006 09:25 PM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? Yup, more than a(one) burglar. Half of all violent encounters will involve two or more badguys attacking you. Then there's all the times you're going to miss or hit someting non-critical.

AMforPM | 12-05-2006 12:03 AM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? Depends on what you put in your 38. Glasers or Mag safe ammo will do as much as regular 45 ACP. Expensive, yes. With the added urban advantage of not ricocheting much or going through walls much. Thus the 'safety slug' designation. But it has all the stopping power anyone needs unless you are going to try to take a bear with a handgun. I have a 1911, and an old west colt 45. I think the world of the 1911 as a military sidearm. But most non war gun fights involve about 3 rounds. (Except for this sick trend of a few police officers who reload their empty SAs and put 50 rounds into 1 person.) So I think easy to pack 5 shot 38s are great around the house. I like being able to keep them loaded, as was mentioned, and the simplicity of use. Till glaser and mag safe nothing below 40 cal really did the stopping power job. But with them, 38 is a fine choice. Anyone you hit anywhere on their body will probably not live to see the ambulance. So consider that if anyone in the family is the least bit trigger happy or might shoot a family member by mistake. Sadly, that does happen. I expect GIM folks cover gun safety with the whole family.

Scorpio | 12-05-2006 12:07 AM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? I carry a 45LC with hot hollowpoint loads, almost bursts the casings, you aim and it goes down,

Curtman | 12-05-2006 12:18 AM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? series 80 here with hydroshocks. PPK backup. I always liked them 007 women.

AMforPM | 12-05-2006 12:22 AM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? AU_AG, I clicked your link. Where do I go on that site to find his ratings on stopping power? I'm happy with my ammo, but interested. We have a 12 ga, but a 12 ga just isn't very good for sticking in your pocket or waistband. LOL For sure I do not want to check out a front yard noise with the dog and a long gun and scare a neighbor to death. And it is kind of awkward in the house. But it would be excellent if confronted by a group attempting break in.

AMforPM | 12-05-2006 12:57 AM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? Here is Mag Safe's site and self promotion. http://www.magsafeonline.com/magnum_performance.html And why I feel fine with a 38 revolver so loaded, for most situations. ---- MAGNUM PERFORMANCE WITH SAFETY... That's the concept which led to MagSafe Ammo, the world's most effective handgun ammo. There isn't another bullet anywhere with the take-charge performance offered by MagSafe Ammo. DESIGNED FOR PERFECT PENETRATION DEPTH MagSafe's revolutionary design uses large lead shotgun pellets rather than solid lead for a bullet's core. The earliest versions (1986-1987) used small pellets, like the #6 shot a competitor uses for their "Silver" line of frangible ammo. Early in the design process, hundreds of videotaped test shots were made into ordnance gelatin. Then, viewed in slow motion, you could see how a core's pellet size and pattern created the greatest wound damage for any given caliber. It was quickly learned that using much larger #2 or #3 shot gave perfect penetration depth in gelatin or flesh-form 10 to 13 inches (two to three times as much penetration as our competitors). A large man's chest is only 12 inches thick from front to back, and any more penetration than that was wasted energy which would endanger innocent people. That was the first goal reached - ammunition which won't overpenetrate a torso and hurt or kill innocent bystanders. REDUCED RICOCHET HAZARD One side benefit of using huge shot pellets is the reduction of ricochets, because larger objects are affected more by rotational forces. Tests showed that MagSafe Ammo won't even glance off slimy, wet boards at the most shallow of angles. They also don't ricochet off windshields, car doors or interior house walls. And, most importantly, they won't glance off bone. ANOTHER GOAL WAS REACHED. "CONTROLLED-CORE TECHNOLOGY" For almost a year, experimentation with shot placement within the bullet's jacket continued, looking for a fan-shaped pellet wound channel. It was felt that the wider the pattern the better the chance of hitting vital organs, even with a poolry-placed shot. By arranging pellets in specific patterns, literally stacking them in place one at a time, by hand, bullets could be designed to work nearly any way wanted - maybe deeper penetration, or wider wound channel, some even to break apart in sheetrock walls. To stabilize the pellet patterns until the instant of impact, dozens of types of epoxy resins were tested. A custom blend with perfect properties was found - it is easily broken apart at impact, yet tough enough to launch at twice the velocity of normal bullets. No other ammo uses high-tech resins or pellets put onto specific patterns by hand. WORLD'S FASTEST AMMO - YET LOWEST RECOIL! The final goal - to have the world's fastest ammo, yet with much less recoil than standard (slower) ammunition - was really tough. However, hot loads are now offered like the .45 ACP SUPER SWAT load, which clocks 2,160 + feet per second (fps) in a five-inch auto - yet has about one-third the recoil. The 9mm Mini-Glock Load cruises along at about 2,000 fps from Glock's teensy Model 26, yet has far more stopping ability than the nastiest .357 magnum or 10mm hollowpoint in the world. Yet the recoil is about like shooting low-powered target loads! LOTS OF FOLKS SAID "IT WON'T WORK" For example, half a dozen gun "experts" stated a 66-grain bullet would not function a .45 ACP weapon. So, MagSafe was tested in full-auto Tommy Guns, which don't function very well at all with light ammo. It was also tried in a 645 Smith with 28-lb. recoil springs - just to make sure. Then the folks at Magnum Research said a slug as light as 250 grains would not function their massive Desert Eagle in .50 Action Express Caliber. MagSafe's 180-grainer functioned perfectly under all conditions. MAGSAFE SWEPT THE STRASBOURG TESTS The now -famous Strasbourg Tests put MagSafe on the map. To Summarize what nearly everyone already knows, over 600 live French Alpine goats (their bodies are very much like humans) were shot under controlled conditions: no anesthetic, same shot placement form animal to animal, and with blood pressure and heart rate monitors to determine the Incapacitation Time (measure of how long it took a goat to cease functioning after the single shot was delivered). MagSafe Ammo worked - better than anything else. Tests were done without MagSafe's knowledge, so some versions tested were the lowest powered. For example, two types of .380 ACP are offered; the .380 Defender, a 60-grainer at 1,360 fps in a Colt Mustang; and the .380 MAX (designed for a big city's undercover drug agents) with a 52-grain slug sizzling along at 1,620 fps in the Mustang. The Defender has 247 ft-lbs of energy, while the MAX load has 303 ft-lbs. The Defender's lower velocity hampered stopping power, resulting in a Average Incapacitation Time (AIT) of 7.12 seconds. That's the average time for five different goats, each shot once with the MagSafe 60-grain Defender. However - and this is where things get interesting - there wasn't a jacketed hollowpoint bullet in ANY caliber which dropped the goats faster than MagSafe's weakest .380 load! MagSafe's .380 beat every .45 ACP slug, every 10mm, every 9mm (including police-only ammo), every .40 caliber - no matter who made it - Cor-Bon, Remington, Glaser and HydraShok. In fact, MagSafe's lowest-powered .380 ACP load had an AIT faster than the best manstopper of all time - Remington's .357 Magnum 125-grain JHP! Average Incapacitation Times for all other MagSafe's calibers were in the 4-second range, and MagSafe topped the tests in every caliber but .357 Magnum (a prototype Quik-Shot beat by a fraction of a second), and .38 Special, where Glaser won by .04 seconds. Had the .38 Special tests been done in a 2-inch barrel, MagSafe would have topped that test, too. THE BOTTOM LINE MagSafe Ammo is faster, recoils less, and stops attackers faster than any other ammunition in the world. Elite forces are outfitted with MagSafe, from Navy SEALS to the Royal Hong Kong Police anti-gang units, from big-city undercover narcs to guards at some of America's meanest prisons. The reason is simple. MagSafe works. It's expensive, but it works. You really can turn your .380 into .45 auto, but you have to pay for this kind of hand-crafted performance. The question is this: Just how much is your life worth?

Au_Ag | 12-05-2006 09:25 AM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM (Post 435069) AU_AG, I clicked your link. Where do I go on that site to find his ratings on stopping power? I'm happy with my ammo, but interested.
To get the actual ratings, I think you have to buy the book. However, I believe you could glean a goodly amount of info from perusing the forums there. It's been a while, but I have seen excerpts printed in various gun mags. I believe you're on the right track with Glaser and Magsafe. I'm not sure if there are enough shootings with them to factor into his database or for that matter if he factors in ammunition/versus caliber. My memory is more than a little spotty these days _grin_ The hydrashocks also are very good, as mentioned by Curtman. Regards Ken

G-khan | 12-05-2006 09:43 AM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? For inside your home if you get a .357 use .38 special hollow points in it and do not load it with the .357 cartridges.. They will go through walls and shoot your neighbor. Also if you fire a .357 in the dark, and in a room the explosion and flash will be so loud it will startle and stun you.. I had a .357 Ruger revolver and sold it when my son was 1 - I kept it in the nightstand next to the bed (loaded) and did not want my son to get at it. I just got a 9mm and I liked my rugar better for next to the bed.

wallew | 12-05-2006 12:39 PM
Re: Revolver or SA: what's better for the home? S&W has been making .45 Acp revolvers since WWI. When the military couldn't get 'enough' 1911 auto, they went to S&W who designed a N frame pistol in .45 Acp. The Model 17 uses moon clips (Half moon or full moon), as do all the .45 Acp revolvers. Then came the Model 22. Next was the Model 25. Then the Model 625. Now their is also a Model 325 which appears to be a lightweight version in either 4" or 2.5" - so there are lots of choices. I've owned several 625's in a 3", 4" or 5" barrel (the 3" was a specialty barrel I purchased from S&W on a whim and then had them remove a 4" and replace it with the 3"). That 3" was the best carry piece I ever owned. And reloading a .45 acp using a full moon clip is quick, quick if you practice. Tap out the old six and slam in the new six. Takes longer to type it than to do it. But again, practice practice practice... The Model 17 is a very nice weapon. If you can get a good price and it's not trashed, it would be a nice weapon to have in your headboard or with you on a car trip, back pack event or even TEOWAWKI.

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