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jasons78 | 05-28-2006 11:56 AM
Kel-Tec Sub2000 http://www.kel-tec.com/sub2000.html Anyone have any experience with this rifle? The price is right, altough looking around it looks like I could get an AK for just a little more. Plus it comes in a .40 cal version, and I have a SA XD-40 pistol, so I could use the same ammo for both. I'm getting ready to buy enough re-loading supplies to make 1000 rounds, I plan on making about 200 HP or frangible (for use around the house, since my neighbors house is fairly close to mine, don't want a stray bullet going next door) and the rest FMJ. So, what do you guys think? Is it any good?

electric-amish | 05-28-2006 12:42 PM
Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 I have shot 100s of rounds thru my freinds. The main issue is to buy it shoot it send it back for reworking. It must have the factory rework as they don't come in great condition from the factory. My freind has one did the above and is completely satisfied. This is a fun,fun gun to shoot.

electric-amish | 05-28-2006 01:01 PM
Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 More about the factory rework. The triggers seem to scare the surface and dig in makeing the trigger stick and the gun can be inoperable. This is over come by the factory. They know its a proble and fix them day in and day out for free. The Factory will send them back within a week and its 100% plus they redo other wear as discovered at no cost. That is a major problem----but-- they fix them well and quickly-- I think if you get one you will like it. Best part is the Gun when folded is so small its easy to wear under a coat or stick under a car seat or in you bug out bag. Its fun too!

wallew | 05-28-2006 01:05 PM
Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Buy a real battle rifle. ANYTHING as long as it's .30 or better. Not dissing the Kel-tec, but that would be a choice AFTER you purchased an AK. Or any rifle in .308 or larger. Just my .02 worth. That way you can practice with the kel-tech. Again, not dissing the .40 cal, but it's just NOT a rifle round.

REV127 | 05-28-2006 10:56 PM
Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 My wife has the 9mm version, it's been 100% since the day we bought it. They are extremely compact when folded, much moreso than even a 16" barreled rifle w/ folding stock. These things are about 16" folded, they're also very light. If you live in a place where concealing and blending in is an issue they are a good weapon. An AK is a much more battle-worthy weapon, but that may be a secondary concern for your situation.

wallew | 05-29-2006 02:04 AM
Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 My wife has the 9mm version, it's been 100% since the day we bought it. They are extremely compact when folded, much moreso than even a 16" barreled rifle w/ folding stock. These things are about 16" folded, they're also very light. If you live in a place where concealing and blending in is an issue they are a good weapon. An AK is a much more battle-worthy weapon, but that may be a secondary concern for your situation.
REV127, Again, I'm NOT dissing the Keltec, but ESPECIALLY in 9mm it's NO MATCH for anyone carrying an AK. Now about the overall length... http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...5&d=1140539110 And this does NOT even address the Krinkov's and several other variants that are this small OR SMALLER overall. These are my Hungarian AMD65's. And set up the way they are in this picture, that seventy five round drum will do major damage. Even while inside a car (barrel sticking out side the car obviously).

Infidel | 05-29-2006 02:16 AM
Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Completely illegal in Kalifornia. I wanted one.

REV127 | 05-29-2006 11:35 AM
Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Wallew, understood, I'm an AK man, but a Sub-2000 in your briefcase trumps an AK in your gun safe. Evaluate your situation and choose the best weapon for the application. Guns are just tools, pick the right one for the job, that's all I'm saying. If you're an apartment dweller or live in a crowded neighborhood you would be better off with a shotgun or pistol caliber carbine than a heavy penetrator like 7.62x39, .308 or .30-06 which will blow holes through the badguy, through your walls, through your neighbor's walls and finally through your neighbor. OTOH, you'll want that penetration in an urban warfare type of situation, or against light vehicles or large game.

wallew | 05-29-2006 01:18 PM
Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 Wallew, understood, I'm an AK man, but a Sub-2000 in your briefcase trumps an AK in your gun safe. Evaluate your situation and choose the best weapon for the application. Guns are just tools, pick the right one for the job, that's all I'm saying. If you're an apartment dweller or live in a crowded neighborhood you would be better off with a shotgun or pistol caliber carbine than a heavy penetrator like 7.62x39, .308 or .30-06 which will blow holes through the badguy, through your walls, through your neighbor's walls and finally through your neighbor. OTOH, you'll want that penetration in an urban warfare type of situation, or against light vehicles or large game.
Rev, +1 on all you just said. Having said that the new AR15 'pistols' in carbon fiber are as light as the Sub-2000, pack more of a punch and WILL fit in all but the smallest briefcase. Ya just gotta have the right tool for the job. You wouldn't use a hammer in place of a pair of vice-grips. Well, some of the people I know would, but most would not. It took a LONG time for my wife to understand WHY I purchase so many tools. She finally got for every job there is a CORRECT tool to do that job. Or sometimes more than one tool.

hoarder | 05-29-2006 01:32 PM
Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 My gut reaction to .223 handguns is this caliber is not intended for a short barrel. Doesn't accuracy drop off drastically when barrels chambered for .223 are shortened beyond 16"? I noticed these pistols have been getting a lot of attention lately. Are they worth the noise? Can they really be considered long range weapons in anything other than benchrest applications?

electric-amish | 05-29-2006 01:50 PM
Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Basic Gun question. Why not get a semi automatic shotgun? I always hear get the pumps.

REV127 | 05-29-2006 06:24 PM
Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 You still get impressive velocity out of the .223 pistols. Kel-Tec's PLR-16 with its 9.2" barrel is fairly typical of the breed and it gets about 2600fps, which is just shy of the reliable frag velocity at the muzzle but still fast enough to have long range, good penetration and lots of stopping power with a hollow point or softpoint load. I agree with Wallew that there are interesting weapons, in fact I dislike AR's in general but have always pined for an AR pistol. An AK pistol would be nice, too, and 7.62x39 isn't as velocity sensitive in most loadings since this caliber does its dammage through tumbling rather than fragmentation. The main complaint against the semi-auto shotguns I hear are that you can actually shoot faster with a pump if you're good at it, and in some cases there are reliability issues. I am fond of the Saiga 12, at least in theory. A mag fed semi auto 12 gauge shotgun is like your own personal area of denial weapon! Add to that a pistol grip and folding stock conversion and that is one mean shooting iron. Some people say they've had problems with them, but overall I hear good stuff. I intend to get one of these someday and I'll post my results at that time. I am fortunate in that my wife understands the value of things like tools, guns and precious metals. The most complaint about guns I ever hear from her is "you already have that one" when I want a second of the same kind or a variant. I'm still working on explaining the value of standardized arms.

wallew | 05-29-2006 11:52 PM
Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder My gut reaction to .223 handguns is this caliber is not intended for a short barrel. Doesn't accuracy drop off drastically when barrels chambered for .223 are shortened beyond 16"? I noticed these pistols have been getting a lot of attention lately. Are they worth the noise? Can they really be considered long range weapons in anything other than benchrest applications?
H, NO, they are NOT really a long range weapon. While even a custom built .223 bolt action rifle CAN reach out past 500 yards, the round itself is too small to actually do tons of damage after traveling that distance. I have owned an AR pistol made by Rocky Mtn Arms. I got a screaming deal on it when I was working for RMA as a gunsmith. I actually think the .223 IS an excellent pistol round. Good velocity and as long as you are NOT trying to shoot out past about 100 yards you should be OK. But after saying all that, I sold my AR to a buddy of mine who collects 'odd and unusal' type weapons. The one I sold was an experimental pistol as denoted with the 'X' in the serial number. He was happy to get it and I was happy to get rid of it. I considered a Krinkov as one AK variant I was going to purchase, but was talked out of it by the same guy I sold my AR pistol to. He carried one and really disliked it. Functionality was questionable at best. Especially when he swapped it out for an AMD 65. Which is the direction I went. Hope that helps.

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