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jaima | 02-18-2008 08:15 AM
Speaking of survival Our kids are becoming sitting ducks on their College Campuses. My Nephew attends NIU and by the grace of God was in his Dorm during the shooting. After the Virginia Tech shooting last year my Daughters campus went into lock down for a day because of suspicious person on Campus. I realize there is no safe place in this world but the set up of most Campuses make them extremely vulnerable. Some Students want permits to carry guns on Campus. I'm not sure how I feel about that one. http://www.concealedcampus.org/

Twisted Avatar | 02-18-2008 08:38 AM
Re: Speaking of survival Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 972298) Our kids are becoming sitting ducks on their College Campuses. My Nephew attends NUI and by the grace of God was in his Dorm during the shooting. After the Virginia Tech shooting last year my Daughters campus went into lock down for a day because of suspicious person on Campus. I realize there is no safe place in this world but the set up of most Campuses make them extremely vulnerable. Some Students want permits to carry guns on Campus. I'm not sure how I feel about that one. http://www.concealedcampus.org/
That is the ONLY effective way to fight this......if it every gets into the mind of the would be attacker that any person could be carrying a firearm it greatly reduces the chances of a tragedy like that happening. there is a reason these wackos dont go to a police stations, army bases, gun shop trying to pull that stuff. CCW is the way to go...... But it wont happen ...every bleeding heart libby will be up in arms so this is all about window dressing....nothing meanigful will come from this. also I am very,very glad the good lord kept your family safe..... T

jaima | 02-18-2008 08:54 AM
Re: Speaking of survival TA, something has to change. These kids have a right to be safe on Campus. Personally I do not think my Daughter is mature enough to carry a gun on Campus but that doesn't mean other Students are not. I think the Students with permits would require extensive training but I do see it as a possibility. I know I would feel better about my Daughter being on Campus if I know some of her classmates had been trained and were carrying a weapon.

Tn...Andy | 02-18-2008 08:56 AM
Re: Speaking of survival Your daughter needs to GET matured. Walking around in a "gun free" zone is like wearing a target on your back.

jaima | 02-18-2008 09:08 AM
Re: Speaking of survival TA, my Daughter is five feet tall a hundred pounds and attractive. Because she is so small I used to worry myself sick about someone abducting her at Malls or on Campus. Its one of those situations I have had to learn to turn over to God. She has also been slow to mature on an emotional level. I am seeing signs of more emotional maturity but not enough to buy her a gun yet. I do see it as a possibility one day but not yet.

SmallChange | 02-18-2008 09:09 AM
Re: Speaking of survival I went to College, many years ago, but it was not all that safe then either, as there were problems and the girls at the school had varying degrees of unease about even walking around on campus at night. It will NEVER happan, but even the idea of letting students carry around guns at school would be a cure to a problem which would only make things worse. These are kids who can more easily let their emotions get the better of themselves. I myself remember tackling a friend of mine who got their hands on a sword previously hanging as a decoration in someones room, intent on doing another young man some damage about a girlfriend matter. I think if he had a gun, maybe even getting to him in time may have not been possible. Now he is happily married to a woman he met years later and is happy and well adjusted, as much as the average person on the street is, anyway. He could have ruined his life if he had a gun at that one moment. I personally would be 100% against letting college students have guns on campus. Likely many of the ones who would want one, are the ones who may very well use them for purposes other than protection from some crazed person using weapon on campus as we have been seeing in the news. (which this crazed student would be ALLOWED to be carrying around on campus in the first place if we allowed such a thing).

Twisted Avatar | 02-18-2008 09:12 AM
Re: Speaking of survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 972334) Your daughter needs to GET matured. Walking around in a "gun free" zone is like wearing a target on your back.
which is EXACTLY what gubbermint wants so it can strenghten its grip around your throat. Think about what a CCW even means........ YOU HAVE TO ASK THE STATE FOR PERMISSION TO PROTECT YOURSELF!!!! This is just bad all around and the sad thing is .......it is going to get much worse over the near term. Try and educated your kids and loves one as best as possible that is all we can really do anyways...... raw deal either way T

Tn...Andy | 02-18-2008 09:17 AM
Re: Speaking of survival Unfortunately, what you fail to understand is YOU CAN NOT STOP: " the ones who may very well use them for purposes other than protection from some crazed person using weapon on campus as we have been seeing in the news." THEY ARE GOING TO DO IT NO MATTER WHAT LAWS AND SO ON ARE PASSED......does that not SEEM OBVIOUS ???????????? So how about we START training 'children' to quit being children at some point, and recognize THEY carry the primary responsibilty for their own safety and self defense in this world. The problem as I see it now is we have 'momma'ed' them to the point they are like a herd of helpless lambs when a wolf gets in their midst. Keep repeating this over and over: I CAN'T STOP BAD PEOPLE FROM BEING BAD....BUT I CAN DO SOMETHING FOR MYSELF AND MY LOVED ONES......AND IF I CHOOSE NOT TO, I HAVE NO RIGHT TO WHINE LATER..... Maybe it will sink in after while........

diogenes | 02-18-2008 09:30 AM
Re: Speaking of survival [QUOTE=Tn...Andy;972361]Unfortunately, what you fail to understand is YOU CAN NOT STOP: " the ones who may very well use them for purposes other than protection from some crazed person using weapon on campus as we have been seeing in the news." THEY ARE GOING TO DO IT NO MATTER WHAT LAWS AND SO ON ARE PASSED......does that not SEEM OBVIOUS ???????????? Yet never have a seen a crazed gunman in a local gun show...these murderers are cowards and go where they know no-one will oppose them.

grooveboi | 02-18-2008 09:30 AM
Re: Speaking of survival Look, I am not about banning guns - but get real. Tell me which scenario happens on a daily basis on the average college campus: A. 18-20 year-olds males with needy egos binge drink. B. Psychopath gunman roam the quad looking for unarmed victims. Ok, second step. Now that you've answered A, please tell me exactly how comfortable you are with option A being armed? And please don't give me that crap about "trained and proper gun usage" from a nineteen-year-old kid who clearly is not "proper" in their consumption of a mind altering substance. If you can't envision the potential disaster that awaits when a drunken senior from the Grabma Assa Lambda fraternity sees someone hitting on his ex-girlfriend at a weekend party ... - well, then you're deluded. We don't let thirty-year olds to drive a 2000lb weapon if they've been impaired, why should we allow the arguably MOST consistently impaired demographic in the most consistently impaired-encouraged locale, strap weapons to themselves? If you fear that much for your daughters, let them attend college online. But don't pull this conspiracy crap about the PTB WANTING an unarmed college campus as a revocation of constitution rights. It is common sense to NOT encourage their irresponsible use of credit, alcohol, and least of all, weapons.

Tn...Andy | 02-18-2008 09:47 AM
Re: Speaking of survival A. Do you walk to school B. Do you carry your lunch. Apples and oranges. Part of the problem, nay, most of the problem, with alcohol on US campuses is a direct result of the way alcohol is treated in our society.....God forbid a 14 get a sip of it until they turn 18, (or is it 21 now)....and become an "adult".....instead of treating alcohol as a beverage like they do in Europe, we wave it out in front of kids like some right of passage and then wonder why they act like idiots when turned loose. That is a whole nuther discussion of course....... I go back and say the REAL problem is parenting today....the nanny state comes from the nanny parents....parents who think they can somehow protect their kids from every evil in the world rather than preparing them to face that evil on a level playing field....and that thinking carries right on to the Nanny State where the nanny parents expect the State to protect them from the evils of the world. Evil simple exploits both.

jaima | 02-18-2008 09:52 AM
Re: Speaking of survival So, whats the answer? Just continue to let our kids be helpless sitting ducks? There are some students who have experience handling firearms from a young age with the maturity to carry on campus. I would be in favor of them carrying. I also think the perception of the drunken, crazy College Student is rather unfair. Its a horrible stereotype.

jaima | 02-18-2008 09:55 AM
Re: Speaking of survival Andy, I agree. My observation following my Daughters classmates through College is the more controlled the child was at home the wilder they got on Campus. I never understood the mentality of strict control on a High School senior only to turn them loose with no supervision their first year of college. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Tn...Andy | 02-18-2008 10:07 AM
Re: Speaking of survival Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 972397) I also think the perception of the drunken, crazy College Student is rather unfair. Its a horrible stereotype.
Well, Unfortunately, it IS a lot of college students. BIG part of the problem I see with college students is lack of maturity with many of them. I'm not advocating arming each and every student.....but to BAN each and every student is also silly. Case in point....me: My first attempt at college was away from home, in a dorm and lasted 2 quarters.....I was immature and not ready to be there. Then, after 4 years in the Army, I went back to college with a far more mature attitude, took max loads and finished up in 2 1/2 years, going to school AND working full time. At that point, I would have been fine carrying a concealed weapon.....but didn't because there was no such thing as mass school shootings at that time. Second case: My nephew lived with us for the last couple years of his high school. He was an immature knucklehead, and I tried for those years to work some of that out of him. Came HS grad time, and he could have had a full scholarship to the local university based on his SAT score.....but I also knew there was a GOOD chance he would be wasting his time to go. So I advocated the military as a "growing up" time.....he also spent 4 years in, taking some college course along the way, and finished his degree up when he got out, now is a fine young man with wife, 2 kids, and good job. My point is MANY of the folks in college should not be there....unfortunately, college is equated with success way to often, and parents feel like some kind of failure if their child doesn't move right on through 'the system'.

jaima | 02-18-2008 10:25 AM
Re: Speaking of survival I agree. There are lot so older Students on Campus. Another option is for the Staff to carry protection.

Tn...Andy | 02-18-2008 10:30 AM
Re: Speaking of survival Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 972431) IAnother option is for the Staff to carry protection.
If I were on Staff, my briefcase would definitely be a little "on the heavy side"....if you know what I mean :D

Squirrel Bait | 02-18-2008 10:43 AM
Re: Speaking of survival Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 972431) I agree. There are lot so older Students on Campus. Another option is for the Staff to carry protection.
Good option, but they are the most liberal of all. Won't happen!!!! It was almost impossible to get weapons "back into" the cockpit of airplanes after 911 and most of them are Ex- Military. sb

Tn...Andy | 02-18-2008 10:50 AM
Re: Speaking of survival The cockpit ban is not the choice of pilots, though.....again, that is the Nanny State ruling via the FAA. Given an actual choice, I'd suspect a LOT of pilots would be armed. And with the staff, I'd bet you'd find a lot of them are less liberal than you might think, at least when it comes to personal safety. Liberals are infamous for their dis-taste of weapons, but I have yet to ever see the first one put a "GUN FREE HOME" sign on their lawn to back up their mouth.

TheSimpleton | 02-18-2008 11:26 AM
Re: Speaking of survival The trouble is all these arguments are overly simplistic. In the "wild" west, everyone was armed, very often. Even very, very young, and very likely immature men and women. What does the visual or possible arming of all types do? It makes people very, very polite. If young men were armed, would you hit on another man's interest, or would you even go ask her father and brother for their permission first? If other men were armed, would you dare be blotto-drunk around them? Ah, you see what I mean: the whole world is different. It is no safer, perhaps, but dangerous in a different way. Let's explore that. The entire "Wild" West, indian raids and all, was safer than any modern US city today. In fact, Africa as a whole is safer than any major US city. It was so safe, in fact, that the St. Valentine's Day "massacre" that scandalized the nation for generations, only killed 7 men. 7. And that level of violence was unheard of. Like I said, armed men make for very, very polite society. There would be a lot of knocking politely on doors and "yes ma'am." On the other hand, once you have bred society to be without boundary or courtesy, getting from here to there is certain to kill a number of people. But that's always the way when you do the wrong thing. To paint yourself out of the corner and go back to doing the right thing, you pay. It hurts. If it were easy, you would have done it already. Just decide where you want to go, what society you want to see, then go there. Start with the goal on this one: We hereby decide that society needs to be safe for all, for adults and children, men and women, and we are willing to do what is necessary to make it safe again. Go to. TS

AMforPM | 02-18-2008 04:51 PM
Re: Speaking of survival Kids in previous generations were raised with guns, and morals, and could carry guns without doing nutty things. Dad got a pocketbook derringer for my sister when she went to college to keep her safe, but he taught all his kids that guns were tools to be respected, and to shoot. She never had to use it to defend herself, and certainly never shot anyone she was mad at, no matter how mad. But we all felt better, her included, that she had it.

Twisted Avatar | 02-18-2008 05:02 PM
Re: Speaking of survival Gun free home........ now THAT is a future classic!!! T

DogFarm | 02-18-2008 05:23 PM
Re: Speaking of survival ...try and sit near an emergency exit. ...practice situational awarness. ...bullet proof back packs (they have them). ...have your kid make friends with fat kids (cover and concealement) ...have your kid watch forrest gump (run forrest, run)

RaccoonRiverRadical | 02-18-2008 05:56 PM
Re: Speaking of survival Armed college kids is not a good idea. Now a few armed biology teachers, coaches, and women's studies teachers (just kidding) would probably be a good idea. But statistically your child is much more likely to die drinking and driving than catching the bullet from some collegiate loser. It is a crazy world and it is going to stay that way but it still is extremely unlikely your kid will be murdered in a school shooting.

jaima | 02-18-2008 06:02 PM
Re: Speaking of survival OMG, Dogfarm, you were not kidding about the back packs!! YouTube - My Child's Pack
YouTube - My Child's Pack

RaccoonRiverRadical | 02-18-2008 06:09 PM
Re: Speaking of survival Now if only someone would shoot Neal.

jaima | 02-18-2008 06:13 PM
Re: Speaking of survival Racooon River... Them-there is fighting words. :boxing:

RaccoonRiverRadical | 02-18-2008 06:14 PM
Re: Speaking of survival Neal wouldn't approve.

Martian_Time_slip | 02-18-2008 06:15 PM
Re: Speaking of survival They're not sitting ducks. There are lots of weapons in school, from pens/pencils that can be used as knives to fire extinguishers to locks on lockers that can be used to throw. Guns aren't the only means of self defense.

jaima | 02-18-2008 06:36 PM
Re: Speaking of survival Raccoon, its interesting how different peoples perceptions are. I was listening to that song thinking it reminded me of the best of my generation in the years before so many sold out or got worn out. Its just an amazing song from a time that came close to near revolution in this country...Young people really did try and make a difference then. Its not something that needs to be forgotten just like LT Dans time in Vietnam. If you want to get down to it Kent State was one of the first College shootings. http://www.vietnamwar.com/kentstateohioguardsmen.jpg http://www.vietnamwar.com/kentstatestudentsfleeing.jpg

Raven | 02-18-2008 06:38 PM
Re: Speaking of survival Don't forget about Jackson State U.

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DogFarm | 02-18-2008 06:38 PM
Re: Speaking of survival honestly, if someone is shooting at you (they take the initiative, they out gun you, they know the range) while you are in a classroom or campus space, my advice would be to run to cover and concealment. then run some more when he's reloading.

goldsilverman | 02-18-2008 06:44 PM
Re: Speaking of survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 972417) Well, Unfortunately, it IS a lot of college students. BIG part of the problem I see with college students is lack of maturity with many of them. I'm not advocating arming each and every student.....but to BAN each and every student is also silly. Case in point....me: My first attempt at college was away from home, in a dorm and lasted 2 quarters.....I was immature and not ready to be there. Then, after 4 years in the Army, I went back to college with a far more mature attitude, took max loads and finished up in 2 1/2 years, going to school AND working full time. At that point, I would have been fine carrying a concealed weapon.....but didn't because there was no such thing as mass school shootings at that time. Second case: My nephew lived with us for the last couple years of his high school. He was an immature knucklehead, and I tried for those years to work some of that out of him. Came HS grad time, and he could have had a full scholarship to the local university based on his SAT score.....but I also knew there was a GOOD chance he would be wasting his time to go. So I advocated the military as a "growing up" time.....he also spent 4 years in, taking some college course along the way, and finished his degree up when he got out, now is a fine young man with wife, 2 kids, and good job. My point is MANY of the folks in college should not be there....unfortunately, college is equated with success way to often, and parents feel like some kind of failure if their child doesn't move right on through 'the system'.
Would you still advocate that option? I thought about that... but the down sides seemed too great. Now I work at McDonalds, not sure about my next move, just prepping for the near future.

RaccoonRiverRadical | 02-18-2008 06:51 PM
Re: Speaking of survival jaima, I grew up listening to Neal Young too and am only poking fun at his overweening do-gooderism, which I am sure has probably been a great benefit to humanity. Personally I prefer less self-expressive forms of social activism such as environmentalism. In a word, millionaire celebrities all give me a hard-core pain in the keaster. :wink:

jaima | 02-18-2008 06:52 PM
Re: Speaking of survival Here is my observation and opinion from the working world. The money I spent sending my Daughters through College was a big waste. They would have been much better prepared for the world and have higher paying jobs if they went to a good technical school instead.

RaccoonRiverRadical | 02-18-2008 07:03 PM
Re: Speaking of survival Wisdom arrived at the hard way.

jaima | 02-18-2008 07:09 PM
Re: Speaking of survival Yep Raccoon, those College loans are the gift that keeps giving. :confused_ma:

Awoke | 02-19-2008 03:20 PM
Re: Speaking of survival If every student on campus carried a gun, there would be no more classroom slaughters, imo.

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