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- - Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=245247)

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 03-11-2008 01:46 PM
Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? I've wanted to ask this for some time now. I believe I have the semi-auto base pretty well covered and yet, I wonder if I wouldn't do too bad with one of my bolt rifles instead, should TSHTF. The major problem with bolt guns as I see it is ROF. The semi-autos have the edge there. Still, I tend to practice with bolt guns more, find them to be more accurate than semi-autos, and somewhat more reliable, mechanically, over extended periods. But what do you think? Is a solid bolt gun such as Mauser 98 (8mm), an Enfield (.303), or a wartime Springfield (.30-06) a viable and potent survival weapon? Or, will its slow ROF make reliance upon it in a SHTF scenario a death sentence for the user?

Professur | 03-11-2008 01:50 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Semi autos need more maintenance, and the ROF just means they need to carry more ammo and will run out before you. Enough wars have been fought with bolt actions to prove their worth. A semi will be good short term, but bolt actions will still rule the field in a year's time, when the autos are jamming, need parts, and have run out of lead to throw.

SilverCity | 03-11-2008 02:22 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? The British SMLE .303 would get my vote. In order to qualify with it, soldiers had to fire 10 shots, reload from 5-round strippers, fire 10 more with all hits on a torso silhouette at 200 yards in 1 minute. Expert marksman could put 30 hits on target in 1 minute... The rifles are still available, but surplus ammo is getting hard to find.

damoc | 03-11-2008 02:27 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? what i like about bolt action,lever action and revolvers is the ability to accept different ammo easily.seems that with an auto you need that exact load of powder and bullet to have them function well.

Canadian-guerilla | 03-11-2008 02:32 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? unless you're being overrun by a mob, a bolt action should be fine depending how old it is, slap a scope on it, and you should be good for at least 300-400 yds

jrog100 | 03-11-2008 04:19 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 1005855) Enough wars have been fought with bolt actions to prove their worth.
I do believe that the wars were fought with bolt guns typically because there weren't any semi auto non crew served weapons.

Professur | 03-11-2008 04:21 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? The afgans did pretty good with them against the russians ...

mike77777 | 03-11-2008 04:22 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? mauser 98k. 30 06 with a chamber adapter for .308. built like a tractor, good quality manufacture in the older models, accurate,decent rate of fire,lots of units available for spares.

Prometheus | 03-11-2008 05:06 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Bolt guns are great and if your taliing milsurp, they are cheap. I purposefully bought a Enfield 2a in .308 as a backup rifle just in case my two semi auto's crapped out (doubtful but what the heck). Mosins, Mausers, whatever... great power and range. If you arein a actual firefight you're in trouble no matter what you have. Even a flesh wound could prove fatal over a few days without medical care. No one is going to want to charge your position after you just blew a big hole in billy bob from 400 yards away. No matter the ROF. Bolt guns have a definate place, IMO my Mosins and Mausers are for hunting. Should they need to see self defense purpsoes I can certainly think of worse things to try and defend yourself with.

Twisted Avatar | 03-11-2008 05:14 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? I agree bolt action will definatley have a place in my arsenal.......I like the fact of the more ground between me and a attacker the more powerful I am ... I would be most happy with a bolt and with a great scope.....I would be lethal before you even saw me. T

Tallships | 03-11-2008 06:48 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Mosin are tough. I have a friend who accidentally ran over his twice.. and it fired perfectly.

LibertyAZ | 03-11-2008 11:15 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Mauser in .308 set up as a scout rifle, i.e. low power forward scope.

Unclad Lad | 03-12-2008 01:55 AM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? In a sphincter-loosening encounter, you're less likely to empty your magazine in a panic if you've gotta work that bolt.

buff01 | 03-12-2008 02:24 AM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? With the reliability and accuracy of today's semi autos, I honestly don't see the point in owning a bolt action other than for the fun of it. I might buy a Mosin-Nagant, but I definitely wouldn't be grabbing it if serious shit was going down.

RedRider | 03-12-2008 04:40 AM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Bolt action is where it's at. One shot, one kill. You can spray and pray, but when you're out of ammo what good is that semi? Makes for a pretty cumbersome club. Teamed with a high cap semi-auto sidearm, I'd say it's as close to the perfect SHTF combo as you can get (if you're planning on being on the move). Remington 700. Enough said.

walker10 | 03-12-2008 05:11 AM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? It depends on your personal situation. If you live in a more rural area with a lower population density and more open terrain, a bolt action rifle may be all you need. And, the ROF that can be maintained by a person VERY familiar with his weapon can be pretty impressive to see but not for long periods of time. Also with a magazine of usually 5-10 rounds you're going to be reloading that bolt alot more often. If you live in a suburban or city environment though, go with a semi. If you are the only one defending your family against looters, etc. the semi will give you the edge. Stock up on ammo and magazines.

oroplata | 03-12-2008 05:13 AM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Slap a night scope on it and take them out before they know what's going on.

Dusty | 03-12-2008 06:18 AM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Springfield M1A1 308 Colt 45 APC nuff said..:wink::wink:

AMforPM | 03-12-2008 06:53 AM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Quote:
Expert marksman could put 30 hits on target in 1 minute...
WOW! That is some shooting. I think Walker has it right. Depends on where you are. I like a shotgun in the house, a semi auto 22 in the bug out bag, and a revolver for checking the yard without looking so scary if it is nothing. Assault type weapons catch too much heat for me to be comfortable owning one. The government obviously fears them in citizen hands the most, which is likely an endorsement of a sort. But I would not want to try to carry enough ammo to keep one fed anyway. And a 12 ga will defend the house just as well, IMO.

jrog100 | 03-12-2008 09:01 AM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty (Post 1007137) Springfield M1A1 308 Colt 45 APC nuff said..:wink::wink:
Now theres a fine choice!

Bushpilot | 03-12-2008 09:12 AM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Nothing wrong with a simple bolt action rifle. With a few spare parts and good care the rifle will outlast you. Many people are still shooting bolt action rifles from the the early wars. Simple and easy to shoot accurately with open sights or a scope it is a good choice. I like to buy a rifle with open sights and then have a scope installed and make sure to keep the sights for future use. Its getting hard to buy a new production rifle with open sights. BP

Mumwaldee | 03-12-2008 11:30 AM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? ....................

Squirrel Bait | 03-12-2008 12:36 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? You will tend to use less ammo with the bolt action. In the long run that is a good thing. It will also force you to aim better cause you know you are limited in reloading. sb

Dusty | 03-12-2008 03:10 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? I shoot NRA Highpower rifle competition.. For the reason of this thread.. If the s.h.t.f, you will need to have the ability to reload.. It is not hard, find a shooting range and you will find people that will be more than happy to help you learn the basics and drill into you the things that you do not want to do. (Keeps you from losing body parts:wink:) Bolt rifles are more accurate (most times) Semis are good because if the s.h.i.t. there can be times that to be able send shots down range fast, can and will be a good thing.. My m1a1 has been worked by , in my opinion, by one of the best in this country.. For single shot bolts the 223 or 5.56 is a very good round, Have a savage model 12 ,that can bust eggs at 400 yards. 12 eggs 12 shots..:bull-buddy-icon: Dusty

Dusty | 03-12-2008 03:16 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Just noticed.. it should have have been ..s.h.t.f.!! sorry. Dusty:s9:

Dusty | 03-12-2008 03:21 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Heck of a day.. When I say reload I mean reloading ammo.. :rolleyes_m: Dusty...

Dusty | 03-12-2008 03:26 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Digging a deeper hole.. 1 take fired case, 2 prep case, 3 insert primmer 4 fill with powder 5 seat bullet.. The neat thing is you can tune your ammo to the gun.. maybe this will be the last post..the last i think 3 left some of you d?? wondering what I was trying to say.! Dusty:shocked_ma:

wallew | 03-12-2008 04:09 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? The rifle that won WWII was the M1 Garand. A semi auto. The rifle that General G. Patton called, 'the best battle rifle ever made'. So don't go too hard on any semi auto. It DOES have it's place in your arsenal. As does a bolt action. And regarding the 'running out of ammo thing'. The same thing can happen if you own a bolt action rifle and have NOT stocked up enough ammo for a given situation (fighting numerous MNZ's comes to mind). So, don't rely on JUST a bolt action rifle. Having both a semi and a bolt action is the only way to go. Ditto on having BOTH a semi auto pistol AND a revolver. Yes, I know, I know. It will cause you to stock different types of ammo. DO IT. You will NOT be disappointed, because you will be 'prepared' for as many situations as possible.

Dusty | 03-12-2008 04:32 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Also have built by the same gunsmith..A M1 there is not enough money in the world , for this one.. replacement cost for my m1a1 is close to 6-grand chambered in 308.. Tack driver..:bull-buddy-icon: You are right .. will take a licking and keep on ticking.. My m1 was used a few barrels ago at the camp peary matches.. Do take my shooting personal.. :s9: Dusty

Abouthadit | 03-12-2008 04:35 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 1006371) Mosin are tough. I have a friend who accidentally ran over his twice.. and it fired perfectly.
What did he do? Back up to see what he ran over??? :haha::haha::haha:

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- Survival Prep (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=141)
- - Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=245247)

Twisted Avatar | 03-12-2008 04:36 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1007874) The rifle that won WWII was the M1 Garand. A semi auto. The rifle that General G. Patton called, 'the best battle rifle ever made'. So don't go too hard on any semi auto. It DOES have it's place in your arsenal. As does a bolt action. And regarding the 'running out of ammo thing'. The same thing can happen if you own a bolt action rifle and have NOT stocked up enough ammo for a given situation (fighting numerous MNZ's comes to mind). So, don't rely on JUST a bolt action rifle. Having both a semi and a bolt action is the only way to go. Ditto on having BOTH a semi auto pistol AND a revolver. Yes, I know, I know. It will cause you to stock different types of ammo. DO IT. You will NOT be disappointed, because you will be 'prepared' for as many situations as possible.
Great points........ one gun is not going to be the answer to all situations you must have overlap and if possible several of each type. T

Dusty | 03-12-2008 04:39 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Doing it again. The m1 is a 308.changed in 1961 the m1a1 is 308 ,,from the time it was thought of.. Both ,,........Outstanding... Dusty.

Dusty | 03-12-2008 04:49 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Replying to a post on this thread. Close in there is nothing and I mean nothing that can beat a 12 or if you can find one 10 gauge tho it would be a shame to cut as 10 down.. For the home a shotgun cannot be top;ed at least in my opinion.. Dusty:bull-buddy-icon:

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 03-12-2008 05:23 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Interesting replies here, and my thanks to all for your input. Now, if only I knew how to reload/handload... :bear_sad:

Dusty | 03-12-2008 05:43 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Not hard to do..

Eldorado | 03-12-2008 06:04 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1007874) The rifle that won WWII was the M1 Garand.
less than 20% of WWII soldiers died of rifle wounds (the majority died in artillery and air attacks, machine guns, mortars, accidents, disease...) More than two thirds of German soldiers died on the Eastern front. Considering this, I doubt the Garand made victory in WWII possible. WWII was von by American industry and soviet blood. The hardware itself was irrelevant.

wallew | 03-12-2008 06:21 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty (Post 1007931) Doing it again. The m1 is a 308.changed in 1961 the m1a1 is 308 ,,from the time it was thought of.. Both ,,........Outstanding... Dusty.
Dusty, No offense. But the M1 Garand AS DESIGNED AND USED IN WWII was chamber in 30-06. Same as the Springfield bolt action rifle. It was only in the early fifties with the 'advent' of the M1A1 that the round was changed to the 'NATO 7.62x51' due to political agreements. The M1A1 (which is ONE of my favorite rifles of all time) was basically a 'stop gap' rifle that was produced, but rarely used, even in Korea, where M1 Garands and M1 Carbines ruled the day for the US troops. Eldorado, Regardless you what you think, go have a chat with surviving WWII GERMAN soldiers. My Dad has been to Germany twice since WWII. He even was at the ceremony where the Mayor of Remagen unveiled a plaque honoring ALL the soliders of WWII. After the ceremony, he told my dad that he was extremely impressed with not only the marksmanship of the US soldiers, but also the weapon they carried. HE said it made his men's Mausers OBSOLETE. This man was a young LT in the WWII battle for the Remagen Bridge, which my dad fought in. His division, the 99th, was the first full division to make it across the Remagen Bridge. So, while you may NOT think the M1 Garand won WWII, you really need to speak to GERMAN soldiers who faced it. My dad has. My mom was with him on both trips. She said she was amazed at how much 'comraderie' there was from Germans who fought against the US troops. They held them in high regard. Still do. Sorry bud, but your statement is false. At least from the 'oppositions' viewpoint. The funny part is, with all the battlefield promotions, my Dad's FAVORITE weapon was the Thompson, which he carried after being promoted to Sgt and then SSgt. Then he was wounded on two different occasions and his part in the war was over. There will be a book coming out, hopefully sometime in either May or June called 'Once Upon a Time in War' by Robert Humphrey. My Dad's stories are in that book. It's based on the 'grunts' point of view. The grunts from the 99th division SPECIFICALLY. So if you get a chance, it SHOULD give you a whole new perspective on WWII. Everyone who has read it says it's one of the best from a soldiers viewpoint that's yet been written.

Dusty | 03-12-2008 07:52 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Wallen..Hi my m1 was chambered 30-06, but in the early 1960;s was made into a 308 caliber .. and the funny thing is the U.S Navy did it..All it took was changing the barrel. And some good gunsmithing.. Dusty:bull-buddy-icon:

Tallships | 03-12-2008 07:55 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Abouthadit (Post 1007927) What did he do? Back up to see what he ran over??? :haha::haha::haha:
Yes. It was on the hood of his car and it was dark out and was raining. We were in BFE so we decided to see what it (the car which we had just finished installing a big block into with no ehaust) could do. Heard a thump, backed up and heard another. His cigarettes did not fare as well as the mosin.

Hivemindgammahydra7 | 03-12-2008 09:05 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldorado (Post 1008071) less than 20% of WWII soldiers died of rifle wounds (the majority died in artillery and air attacks, machine guns, mortars, accidents, disease...) More than two thirds of German soldiers died on the Eastern front. Considering this, I doubt the Garand made victory in WWII possible. WWII was von by American industry and soviet blood. The hardware itself was irrelevant.
Historically-speaking, this is a very accurate summary. Also, very concise.

mike77777 | 03-12-2008 09:08 PM
Re: Bolt rifles as survival weapons: what do you think? always thought those navy garands were "converted" to .308 with use of an adapter which was placed on a 308 round, chambered in a 30 06 fired and shortened up the chamber to accept nato spec ammo i used one of these in a garand in the early 90s, in order to have more ammo choices in one weapon. believe SARCO sold them, advertised as us navy surplus. these would also work well in a bolt rifle of course

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