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Darkside | 04-27-2007 09:08 AM
Bulldozer/Back-hoe So my goal is to buy a large parcel of land somewhere in the country where I could build a self-sustainable farm eventually, with renewable power, free source of water and food. One thing that seems essential to this and especially in a TSHTF scenario is having your own bulldozer/back-hoe. I am just imagining all the things I can do with such equipment: -dig trenches -dig foundations for structures -dig a small aqueduct -use the backhoe as a crane to lift heavy objects -clear land i had a few questions though for anyone experienced with this equipment... how easy is it to operate them? which make/modle would you recommend as a great realiable machine with the most versatile functions and good value? how much diesel do they typically consume per hour, and can they operate on alternate fuels?

hoarder | 04-27-2007 09:30 AM
Re: Bulldozer/Back-hoe Backhoe/loaders are not too hard to operate, a bit harder on steep terrain. Dozers are easy to operate but it takes time to acquire the skill to do fine blade work, IOW you'll gouge out humps in a road instead of smoothing it out. With dozers, the larger they are the easier to do fine blade work. Assuming you're buying older machine I would stick to common brands like Caterpillar, John Deere, Case and Komatsu for dozers. Up to 6 gallons per hour on a 32,000 pound machine and half that for a smaller one. For backhoe/loaders Go with John Deere, Case, Ford and Massey Ferguson. An older used Case backhoe is hard to beat. The really old ones you have to clutch between forward and reverse so no one wants them but they make good landowner/rancher machines. You can teach yourself to operate these machines. edit: If you're referring to a dozer with a backhoe attached to it there are very few of them around, most are John Deere 450 based dozers. I've never ran one but would wonder if the weight of the backhoe adversely effects the blade control. Might be OK for anything but finish blade work.

Fixture | 04-27-2007 10:23 AM
Re: Bulldozer/Back-hoe Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside (Post 587930) ...-dig trenches -dig foundations for structures -dig a small aqueduct -use the backhoe as a crane to lift heavy objects -clear land... how much diesel do they typically consume per hour, and can they operate on alternate fuels?
Depending on your bankroll and skill set, I would steer you toward either hiring a self-employed owner operator to take care of the heavier work as you initially set-up your place. Going price for Dozer work up here is $65.00 an hour with a 2 hour minimum. Bigger equipment costs more per hour, but bigger equipment can do more in less time. It is far cheaper to use a guy who has already bought the equipment, runs it everyday and has the skills, then to try it yourself and waste mucho time. A friend of mine just went to Boise and bought a USED late model backhoe with low hours for $75k...a bargain for him. Do some surfing around http://www.traderonline.com/ and look for equipment. Also, after the heavy work is done, don't rule out a new/used 30-57 horse tractor. Running $15-20k, the newer tractors have tremendous bucket lift capacity, 4WD, 16 gears or thereabouts, and run (depending on model) on gas or diesel. Mine is running diesel. Research http://www.tractorbynet.com/ . Modern tractors have various attachments that can be bought (or rented for the day). You can buy or rent tillers, mowers, backhoe attachments, augers, trenchers, et cetera. A buddy of mine bought a Deere 790 (yecchh) and went ahead and bought the backhoe attachment for $4500.00. He's used the attachment a total of three days for a foundation product and now it sits, tarped, in his shed. He couldv'e rented it for 150 a day and a Friday to Monday morning for $300.00. Do your research and don't rule out subbing a local operator for the hard stuff.

hoarder | 04-27-2007 10:30 AM
Re: Bulldozer/Back-hoe It's easy for me to think in terms of buying a 30 or 40 year old machine for my personal use because I used to work on them for a living 26 years ago. If you're not very handy with mechanical stuff hiring someone is more economical as Fixture pointed out. Here's another used equipment search link: http://www.machinerytrader.com/defau...?kwid=8&seid=1 I'm thinking of trading a bag of 90% for a Case 580E a friend of mine has.

Tn...Andy | 04-27-2007 12:02 PM
Re: Bulldozer/Back-hoe Been down this same route.....bought an old international backhoe when we first bought this place.....it was on it's last legs, and though I got some work out of it, it would have been cheaper to just hired the work out. The only good thing that came out of it was the trade in back to the same 'dealer' for a new Yanmar tractor. Then I traded around for an old John Deere 350 dozer.....another mistake. I had to go thru it and rebuild the transmission, final drives and new steering clutches.....I did the work, but the parts alone were expensive. An old machine is an old machine......just plan on spending a BUNCH on them. Finally sold it. My 'rolling stock' now consists of a 98 model Mitsubishi BD2H dozer ( small....between a 350 and 450 JD in size ) and 98 model New Holland tractor....33hp with a front loader. The dozer I bought mainly because it was a real deal, bought it thru a local dealer that brought it in out of Japan directly...it was used, but just barely...only had 185hrs on it when I got it, so it was like new...I mainly bought it to grade land for house building, and to build some roads on my place.....I'm about ready to sell it now. The tractor I bought new in 98. I have every kind of attachment there is for the tractor.....forks and bucket for the front loader, and also a Bushhog backhoe unit for the back. If I need MAJOR type backhoe work, I still hire it out.....neighbor has a Case 4x4 and JCB 4x4 both, so I don't have to go too far for one...but the little 3pt hitch hoe I have is real handy for small footers, cleaning out ditch lines, etc....I have it on my tractor a fair amount. There's something to be said for just being able to pull into the shed, hitch it up and go to work versus going to town for a unit and wasting 1/2 day or more.....it really gets down to how much you think you'll use it. My recomendation ? Same as fixture......hire out the heavy work, and buy a 30-50hp tractor either new or barely used.....stick ONLY with brands like New Holland, John Deere, Kubota, etc that have a GOOD dealership ( like they've been there 30 years or more ) near you.....the best tractor going is a boat anchor if you need a 50 cent part and can't get it.....so avoid like the plague Russian and Jap 'gray market' brands. Get 4wh drive.....like almost doubling your horsepower and size tractor...get a front loader WITH quick attach feature for forks and bucket......a front loader is THE HANDIEST THING you will ever own in a piece of equipment....you won't believe how many uses you find for it.....I move everything on pallets anymore

silverJeep | 04-27-2007 12:14 PM
Re: Bulldozer/Back-hoe 1 Attachment(s) NEVER TICK OFF A GUY WHO OWNS A BACK-HOE!

hoarder | 04-27-2007 12:15 PM
Re: Bulldozer/Back-hoe Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 588144) bought an old international backhoe when we first bought this place
Hi Andy! Please note that International was not on my list of old backhoes to buy. Their dozers and articulated loaders aren't too bad but their backhoes and tractors are pretty sorry. One advantage of owning your own backhoe over hiring the work is that you can dig holes to bury preps on a cloudy day in complete anonymity. Maybe Darkside was thinking of burying his mega-hoard.

<SLV> | 04-27-2007 12:43 PM
Re: Bulldozer/Back-hoe Make sure you get one of those nappy-headed back-hoes. They ain't much to look at, but they can woop up on the pretty bull-dozers. :s13:

Darkside | 04-30-2007 01:51 PM
Re: Bulldozer/Back-hoe Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 588174) Maybe Darkside was thinking of burying his mega-hoard.
Muahaha, my plan is more transparent than I thought! Well there's that and the digging of my secret underground bunkers and tunnel network ;)

Darkside | 04-30-2007 01:52 PM
Re: Bulldozer/Back-hoe Quote:
Originally Posted by silverJeep (Post 588171) NEVER TICK OFF A GUY WHO OWNS A BACK-HOE!
That's some precise back-hoe-ing right there. I'd hire whoever did that for any excavation I might need in the future. Just gotta remember to park my car on the pavement ...

Darkside | 04-30-2007 01:53 PM
Re: Bulldozer/Back-hoe Thanks guys for all the tips about the tractor, that sounds like the way to go.

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