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NOOB | 11-12-2006 07:30 PM
cheap 308 These would be a cheap method to at least arm your family members who didn't arm themselves. Not a whiz-bang assualt rifle but it would do in a pinch. http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/E...51_Rifles.html NOOB

Wyldwil | 11-12-2006 09:42 PM
Re: cheap 308 Almost bought one of these for nearly $90 less at local gun show....this will soon be my affordable .308... http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN

RiverRat | 11-12-2006 11:26 PM
Re: cheap 308 :cool1: Not too familiar with that particular model... The price is definitely cheap...excluding shipping to a local FFL dealer you can trust. Fairly decent Remingtons,Winchester and Ruger .308 bolt actions can be found in pawn shops for around $250.00 without scope.They move almost as fast as 30.06's and .270's. Bought a decent 742 Remingtom Automatic 30.06 back in July for $225.00...no scope of course. Yeah...sounds like I'm lying...nope...I do a ton of computer repair work for five different pawn shops...so I snatch up the good deals a step ahead of J6P occassionaly. Deer season and Christmas drives all gun prices up...used and new. Buy in the off seasons if you really want to slam a decent deal. :cool1: :cool1:

REV127 | 11-13-2006 07:26 AM
Re: cheap 308 Crap? I've never known anyone who had any particular problems with theirs. Indian surplus .308 ammo certainly has a terrible reputation and I wouldn't get mixed up with it but aside from the typical evaluation process I'd put any milsurp through I'd actually like to add 2A1 to my collection. 12rds of .308 and classic SMLE lines are things I find quite attractive. From what I've seen the accuracy can be variable though and never particularly outstanding. If you're just looking for an inexpensive fullhouse turnbolt battle rifle and you aren't already stocking .308 I would suggest you consider the Mosin Nagant. They are quirky rifles, but they are reasonably accurate with great durability and reliability. If you have any home gunsmithing ability at all you can smooth them out nicely with a couple evenings' worth of work. The main selling point however is the caliber, 7.62x54r. Unlike .308 7.62x54r is not classified as handgun ammunition here in the USA and consequently loads with steel cored bullets are bountiful and cheap. They aren't true AP in every case but they do penetrate better than lead against non-armor hard targets. AP and even explosive and incendiary loads for 7.62x54r are available as well, though at a cost, if you dig around. This caliber remains in active military service to this day in general purpose machineguns as well as sniper rifles so the supply of surplus ammunition should remain constant as long as the law allows.

Tn...Andy | 11-13-2006 08:38 AM
Re: cheap 308 Hey....ya'll check out this "KABOOM" of a Springfield Amoury M1A.... Plumb scary ! http://www.thegunzone.com/m1akb.html

Tn...Andy | 11-13-2006 08:55 AM
Re: cheap 308 Site suggests it was bad ammo........ I saw another one from the same site of an AR-15 utterly destroyed, and they suspect the cause was reloaded ammon using a hot pistol powder instead of the correct powder for the .223 load. Reloaders take note.....along with 'keeping your powder dry', you might wanna also keep an eye on which one is which !

RiverRat | 11-13-2006 08:57 AM
Re: cheap 308 :cool2: Andy...that's some KaBoom !! The guy was very lucky. Heard of some similar scenarios when shooters tried to use factory .308 Winchester ammo in their military surplus 7.62 rifles. Yep...it will fit just fine...the problem is the military rifles can't take the head pressure...military 7.62 is loaded much more conservative than generic .308 Winchester loads. Nato 7.62 will work just fine in a factory chambered .308 rifle...but not the other way around. I'm sure you already know this... Man that poor M1A was totaled. Thanks for the heads up... :cool2:

eat_beef | 11-13-2006 10:16 AM
Re: cheap 308 Wow, Andy, that's the worst KB I've ever seen. RR, you're close, but not quite right on the 7.62 vs 308 thing. There are some slight differences between the two, but they are so close as to be all but interchangeable. One can do damage to an op rod or such with a "hot" 308 in a semi, but normal 150s @ normal velocity, with the proper propellant, are OK. Most (90%+) of the new M1As are chambered for 308 rather than 7.62. But 7.62 milsurp is a lot cheaper, so it's kinda a moot point.

RiverRat | 11-13-2006 11:30 AM
Re: cheap 308 :cool2: eat_beef: I guess it just comes down to margin of error for me. The 7.62 cartridge has a 50,000 psi pressure rating...Nato standard. The factory .308 cartridge has a 62,000 psi pressure rating ...industry standard. That's 12,000 psi difference...not too desirable in a military surplus rifle with a sloppy headspace. I just don't trust factory loaded .308 in my SKS...I prefer to keep all my fingers. A lot of people are unaware of the difference...I just like to be safe. It's a matter of personal preference...to each his own. I have shot a lot of 7.62 Nato in my .308 model 70 Winchester,never had a problem. :cool2: :cool2:

gunner | 11-13-2006 11:43 AM
Re: cheap 308 Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 415053) Crap? I've never known anyone who had any particular problems with theirs. Indian surplus .308 ammo certainly has a terrible reputation and I wouldn't get mixed up with it but aside from the typical evaluation process I'd put any milsurp through I'd actually like to add 2A1 to my collection. 12rds of .308 and classic SMLE lines are things I find quite attractive. From what I've seen the accuracy can be variable though and never particularly outstanding. If you're just looking for an inexpensive fullhouse turnbolt battle rifle and you aren't already stocking .308 I would suggest you consider the Mosin Nagant. They are quirky rifles, but they are reasonably accurate with great durability and reliability. If you have any home gunsmithing ability at all you can smooth them out nicely with a couple evenings' worth of work. The main selling point however is the caliber, 7.62x54r. Unlike .308 7.62x54r is not classified as handgun ammunition here in the USA and consequently loads with steel cored bullets are bountiful and cheap. They aren't true AP in every case but they do penetrate better than lead against non-armor hard targets. AP and even explosive and incendiary loads for 7.62x54r are available as well, though at a cost, if you dig around. This caliber remains in active military service to this day in general purpose machineguns as well as sniper rifles so the supply of surplus ammunition should remain constant as long as the law allows.
Hey Rev, Good to see you back :five: Good advice on the 7.62x54 round and the Nagant, I'd just like to add that the ammo floating around is corrosive so all should be aware that the gun requires more maintenance than normal. www.aimsurplus.com is a good place to get both gun and ammo, although gun shows will generally have a bunch of individuals selling their personal Nagants as well. There is also a guy (or a few guys) on www.gunbroker.com selling incendiary .308 and HE .308 as well as many other calibers. For those that reload; http://www.polygunbag.com/bullets.html With the new gun grabbers who recently installed themselves in office, now might be a good time to buy what you want while you can

eat_beef | 11-13-2006 12:50 PM
Re: cheap 308 Umm, the SKS shoots a 7.62x39, not a 7.62MM (aka 7.62x51 aka 7.62 Nato). I don't recall the difference in the 7.62MM vs 308, but I do know that the SAAMI specs vs the NATO specs are measured differently, which accounts for a lot of the difference between the two. Winchester developed the 308win as a direct rip off of the 7.62MM cartridge.

brewer | 11-13-2006 01:33 PM
Re: cheap 308 AIM Surplus ran out of SA 308 ammo last week and will not be restocking or taking any more orders for it. Good luck

Anty Ep | 11-13-2006 01:40 PM
Re: cheap 308 Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 414803) Perhaps you're unaware, but these are Ishapore crap. Very bad idea.
Sukhoi is right. Ishapore crap, made by English for duty in India, "jungle carbine," suffered from "WANDERING ZERO" problem. If you dont know what a "zero" is then you need to take some rifle instruction. A cheap and easy thing to do is register for a one day DCM clinic, whatever they call that now. Anyhow, the only such 308 enfield I would have, is the Gibbs remanufacture, which reportedly solves the wandering zero problem. Great rifle, look that up-

teedub31 | 11-13-2006 02:13 PM
Re: cheap 308 Cheap and Gun are two words I never like hearing in the same sentence! Nuff Said.

R MacDonald | 11-13-2006 04:28 PM
Re: cheap 308 Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 415086) Hey....ya'll check out this "KABOOM" of a Springfield Amoury M1A.... Plumb scary ! http://www.thegunzone.com/m1akb.html
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

REV127 | 11-13-2006 06:35 PM
Re: cheap 308 Corrosive ammo is no big problem with bolt actions, unlike autoloaders which vent gasses back into their actions. I keep the actions of my 91/30 and wartime production M-39 lubed with a light coat of CLP, I run few patches down the chromed bore when I'm done shooting, then I pop out the bolt to rub it down and put a few drops of CLP on it, the same for the action(for clarity, I do not remove the trigger group). In other words the same maintainence I'd give my rifles if I was firing noncorrosive ammo. No sweat. You're pretty safe with the modern production hunting loads from various manufacturers, but since it's the same maintainence it shouldn't really matter. Other people swear by windex as a solvent for use with corrosive ammo, the most important thing is just to clean it up. For arming unexpected guests on a budget I've always liked the concept of a few SKS's for close to medium range and a couple Mosin's for long range support or punching through heavy cover. If you shop around you could so-arm two fireteams plus equip them with some basic surplus field gear and steel rifle plates for the cost of one high end "homeland defense rifle." If you have manpower but lack funding it is a great way to keep the mzb's out of your yard. I've had my eye on a .308 Saiga for a while as a potential .308 AK clone project. I've seen other conversions and they're pretty sweet. You can get the Saiga in 5.56x45 so you could have NATO compliant ready reserves, though at a higher price. As Gunner said and I'm sure everybody knows, it's probably time to buy up any of the "edgier" firearms and related accessories you may have been wanting. As part of my general investment strategy I'm considering buying up private sale "assault rifles" to hedge against any bans. If the bans never happen then I am stuck with some fun guns for the range that I can leave to my future children and grandchildren.

NOOB | 11-13-2006 07:17 PM
Re: cheap 308 Great replys everyone. I have already decided on calibers(223-308) for main defensive rifles. I already own these calibers so I am looking to stay with these across multiple rifles. Someone posted the other day about arming friends and family if the need arise. That saiga looks pretty good. I saw one in 7.62X39 at the gunshop I frequent. I didnt know they had a 308 version. I am going to look into those if they are affordable. As far as cheap and gun combined, I get the socom 2, and the ar. My unprepared family, friends or trusted refugees get whatever I can scounge up. NOOB

gunner | 11-13-2006 07:25 PM
Re: cheap 308 For an excellent 7.62x39 or .308 check out these; http://www.robarm.com/ These guns have a great reputation and might be worth the extra bucks. I always wanted a VEPR but never got around to picking one up. If I had to start over, I'd probably get one of these first...never heard a bad word about them

gunner | 11-13-2006 08:24 PM
Re: cheap 308 Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 415601) Is anyone actually importing the VEPRs at this point? I understand from the AK forum (I admit that it's been over two months since I last checked) that Izhmas (sp?) the manufacturer of the VEPR got shut down by Saiga for some sort of infringement. Also, Robinson Arms has an extremely poor reputation for promising delivery of product and not following through, to the point that many folks won't even consider dealing with 'em. The VEPRs are first rate if you can actually score one.
Actually, I haven't really been keeping up on Robinson. I remember from the groups.google forum that most guys were really happy with them, and this guy I knew from a gun store that I used to frequent really loved his. He said that the biggest drawback was the added weight due to the heavier duty build, but the advantage was reliabilty and greater accuracy. I'd say that the best place to get one would be www.gunsamerica.com , I've seen them listed from time to time, although if what you said is now the case, where they're possibly shutting down - spare/replacement parts may be an issue.

eat_beef | 11-13-2006 10:45 PM
Re: cheap 308 I'd take two Ishys over a Saiga any day. A Saiga IS NOT an AK. If you get one, don't worry, they only cheapened it up in the important areas. :banghead:

Abouthadit | 11-13-2006 11:26 PM
Re: cheap 308 Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 415549) Corrosive ammo is no big problem with bolt actions, unlike autoloaders which vent gasses back into their actions. I keep the actions of my 91/30 and wartime production M-39 lubed with a light coat of CLP, I run few patches down the chromed bore when I'm done shooting, then I pop out the bolt to rub it down and put a few drops of CLP on it, the same for the action(for clarity, I do not remove the trigger group). In other words the same maintainence I'd give my rifles if I was firing noncorrosive ammo.
Here is some data on dealing with corrosive ammo. You can usually get a better price on it, and it has been used for many years back when. Corrosive Ammunition One fact holds true for all production regardless of year or country, and that is all surplus 7.62x54r ammunition is corrosive. For the novice this sounds much worse than it is. It should be considered that these rifles were used with corrosive ammo for decades through several wars and are often none the worse for wear. When ammo is described as "corrosive" all this means is that the primer contains potassium chlorate which was used as an oxidizer. When the reaction takes place and the oxygen is removed it leaves potassium chloride. A residue of this "salt" is left in the barrel, absorbs moisture from the air and creates a corrosive film. If the barrel is not properly cleaned as soon as practical after shooting it will rust. It is the rust that damages the barrel and not the ammunition itself. The potassium chloride is water soluble so it is easily removed. There are many commercial products advertised for cleaning after shooting corrosive ammo, but a simple 50/50 solution of water/ammonia will do just as well. One patch soaked in the ammonia solution pushed through the barrel and then wiped across the bolt face will do the job. There is no reason to let the barrel "soak" and this can actually do more harm than good if the solution is too strong. Follow the ammonia solution with a dry patch and then clean as you normally would. It is advisable to use the ammonia solution followed by the dry patch and one or two patches with Hoppes #9 or a similar cleaner at the range. This will be sufficient until a thorough cleaning can be done at a more suitable location, preferably the same day. If the bayonet is fixed while shooting it should be cleaned with the ammonia solution as well. Just keep it clean kiddies. :D

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