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Twisted Avatar | 06-12-2009 04:57 PM
Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Escape From (Fill in Your City Here), 2009, by Bill in Chicagoland I think as a boy my favorite stories were always about epic journeys or quests. I always saw myself as the lone hero; bravely making his way through a barren landscape overcoming impossible obstacles and having fantastic adventures along the way. As preppers I think many of us still believe that WTSHTF our trip to “Get out of Dodge” will be an adventure such as those we read in books. I’m afraid however; the reality will be much grimmer than we can imagine. I fear that it will be more like The Road by Cormac McCarthy or the recent novel One Second After by William R. Forstchen , than anything else. I live in the Chicago metropolitan area, yes far behind enemy lines so to speak, and have been a prepper for most of the last 10 years. Like many of us I must live in a big city because of my job. I need money to survive. Living here is no big deal if you learn to ignore the local politics. My kids are grown and I have no long-term attachments here. If the world falls to pieces I always felt I could leave in an instant. I have the requisite pick-up truck, keep it full of fuel, pre-positioned much of my supplies with my son at a relatively safe location in a small town (population 5,000) about 600 miles from here. I’ve got my G.O.O.D. bag packed and I’m ready to go when ever things go south. Or am I ready? Let’s review my bug-out plan. Wait a second, I have no plan! This blinding flash of the obvious hit me as I was stuck in rush-hour traffic last Friday evening on my way to my son’s. It took me nearly three hours to get from my apartment on the far north side of the city to I-80 on the far south side. This was the route I assumed I would take to skedaddle. Think about that; I was on Interstate highways the whole time, leaving at 8:00 PM, and it still took me nearly three hours to go less than 80 miles. What’s really scary is that I was thinking all along how light the traffic was. I had no alternative routes in mind. Yikes! Well, I’ve got to tell you this dear readers, that realization scared the bejeebus out of me. I was so unready to bug out. I had the stuff, the means, the mindset, etc., however, in a meltdown near-panic situation, I would’ve have been just one more member in a stream of hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing the big city. This experience got me off my duff and forced to review what I will do when the next shoe drops in our ongoing economic nightmare. I drew up a list of what was necessary to implement an action plan to “Escape from Chicago 2009” 1. Have a bug-out kit ready at all times a. No problem I have a bug-out bag packed and ready to go. No last minute packing required. However; I hadn’t checked it in quite some time and when I did I found plenty of things to replace and replenish. Batteries lost their charge. Foods had expired. So did many of the common medications I packed. BTW, I also now have a 72 hour bag with me whenever I leave the house. You can never be sure when the worst thing you can imagine will happen. 2. Bring as much as you can with you. a. Unlike many of you, I am not a man of any particular religious belief system. However, like most of you, I feel what makes us truly human beings is our compassion. I have to say that I don’t think while bugging out, I could look a frightened hungry child in the eyes and say no - nothing for you. Bring more than you need. If you don’t need to share then all the better; there’s more for you when you reach your destination. 3. No stopping to buy last minute items. a. If it’s so bad you need to be bugging-out do you really think others don’t know that and are at that very minute stripping the local Wal-Mart clean? During the Los Angeles riots in 1992 and Hurricane Katrina in 2005, the grocery stores were near impossible to get to and if you could, it didn't matter; they were closed, or had been looted, and were empty. Also, shop owners, for example, may attempt to defend their stores with firearms (a la the Los Angeles Riots) and you don’t want to be caught in the crossfire. <Sarcasm on> I know, I know, Chicago has very strict gun laws so there won’t be any shooting except by a few gun-toting NRA/survivalist types <Sarcasm off>. Finally, one interesting image comes to mind when I think of someone “liberating” goods from a Wal-Mart. During the Katrina emergency I recall seeing a video of a very obese woman wading through chest deep flood water, polluted with who knows what, holding a Dyson vacuum cleaner she had “liberated” over her head. No electricity, no home, no floor for that matter, but she had an expensive vacuum cleaner she had probably always wanted. Also, an interesting side note is the lack of bookstores looted. TA I WONDER WHY??? 4. Be sure to “Right size your bug-out vehicle a. Simply put, don’t try to put a 10 gallon load in a 5 gallon bucket. Have a big enough vehicle to accommodate what you need to bring. If you have too much stuff, try to pre-position the bulkiest and heaviest items ahead of time. Be sure to leave enough room in your vehicle for people and pets. If you can’t pre-position the bulkiest stuff at the far end; consider renting storage space in some small town along your intended bug-out route. If necessary, keep a small trailer at the midpoint as well. Also remember that unexpected things may/can/will happen and you will need to change your plans accordingly. Therefore, only the non-essential “nice to have things”, not the essential for survival things, should be stored at waypoints along the way. 5. Don’t oversize your bug-out vehicle a. A corollary to the above is having a vehicle that is too big. Big is not always better. We’ve all seen in footage of the highways during the Hurricane Katrina and Rita emergencies. Massive Gridlock. If/when you need to get off the highway onto a secondary road you’ll need to know if your Jumbo Superbago or SUV with the extra-long Airfoil trailer can negotiate any tight turns and/or low clearances on your Plan B, C, and D routes. I don’t even want to discuss how much fuel bigger vehicles consume. 6. Expect no fuel to be available along the way a. My Dodge pickup gets 18 mpg fully loaded and I have a 22 gal fuel tank. For those of us who are lacking the math gene; that works out to 396 miles per tank and my destination is 600 miles away. Hmmm. That means I need an additional 10 gallons or so. Three options present themselves; get a larger fuel tank, carry gas cans, preposition fuel along the way. b. Option one is too pricey $1,000 plus in my case. c. Option two means using three 5 gallon gas cans. The problem here is that in order to be prepared to leave at any moment; I’d need to keep them all full. My biggest problem here is where to store them. As I mentioned, I live in an apartment so that’s really not an option I’d use except in the direst circumstances and I’d hate to leave them in my truck either. I’ll have to figure this one out. d. Finally, Option three requires storing them at waypoints along the route. This is a so-so solution. The primary route may change and you can’t count on being able to get to it before you run out of fuel. Secondly, most storage faculties have a serious prohibition on the storage of flammable, toxic, or explosive items. 7. Enough cash or “realistic” barter goods for a few weeks a. This is one area that I can’t really give any solid advice. Who knows what’ll be acceptable legal tender or barterable goods. You always read in the “Survival Canons” that certain barter goods will be useful. Honestly, I can’t imagine some 7-11 or Wal-Mart clerk accepting pre-1965 silver or ammo for the loaf of bread or gallon of gas I want to buy. Not in the first few days first anyway. I’d suggest that initially, good old greenbacks will do. How many to bring is the big question ($500 $1,000? Fives, Tens, or Twenties?). I can almost bet that by the time the Schumer hits the fan, most, if not all, banks will be shuttered for a "Short term-bank holiday” and ATMs will likewise be shut down . “No checks please.” Inflation may be rampant and gouging will be the name of the game. Remember Dan and TK's trip in "Patriots" ? $50 a gallon for gas may not be too farfetched. 8. Route selection a. Take your time starting tomorrow and carefully route the best escape route you can. Note that best doesn’t always equate with fastest. If the shortest route takes you through, or by, a major urban center, you’re just jumping from one frying pan into another. Use your GPS en-rote to see what other routes are nearby. Use on-line mapping software, on-line (Google or MapQuest) or a PC or Mac-based routing program. Test different routes and compare times and distances. Most of better routing software also shows gas stations, food, Wal-Mart’s, etc., along your route. Learn to use the software now; not when it’s crunch time. Again, Dan and TKs trip in "Patriots" . Parallel routes to the Interstates perhaps? 9. Expect Societal Breakdown a. Don’t count on your neighbor’s good intentions. Yep, you know which neighbors I mean. They’re the ones down the block with all of the expensive toys who had nothing put aside for an emergency and now are demanding you provide them food, water, and even transportation. Be prepared for incidents of aggression, attempted assault, and theft of supplies. You may need to resort to serious means to defend yourself and your loved ones traveling with you. (I hate to keep referring to "Patriots" but the description of the Laytons' harrowing trip out of Chicago will be much truer than we care to think. ) b. Be especially wary en route. When you stop for whatever reason, you may be approached by others wanting food, or fuel, or other essentials. Help those you feel are truly desperate to the best of your ability. However, you may have to be rather aggressive to deter insistent requests by overly aggressive fellow refugees. This is a good time to be traveling with like-minded, security-conscious friends, so that all concerned can provide mutual security and back-up. 10. Trust but verify a. I was originally going to title this section “Trust no one”, however, I feel that is just a bit to cynical. There will be those you meet along the way who are true Samaritans. But, there are also those may have few if any compunction related to “liberating” a few of your items as a donation for their efforts. Or, in the worst case, there will be some full-blown predators out there masquerading as shepherds waiting for the sheep to come to them. Be wary of all help; including that from our friends in the government. 11. Be wary of Government help. a. I don’t know what will happen if I need to bug-out; but one thing I can be sure of is that if you should stop for help at any government facility; the first thing they will do is ask if you have any weapons with you. This is pretty much standard police procedure in any case. The second thing they will do is take any weapons you have from you. It’s as simple as that. They will claim they are doing it for your own protection but you can be certain you will NEVER see your weapons again. Confiscating weapons was illegally done in New Orleans and few of the confiscated weapons were ever recovered. As unconstitutional as it was, they still to this day, justify taking the weapons as being in the best interest of the public. Forgetting of course that they were seizing the weapons of people least likely to use them against the forces of law and order an all the while never venturing near the danger zones in New Orleans where the actual goblins with illegal weapons resided. Additionally, you can probably also be sure that they will also take whatever food, or other goods you have that they deem necessary, to redistribute it among others who weren’t quite so well prepared as you. How dare you greedy selfish people who prepared have more than others who didn’t? I hope that you will think about what I have presented here and do your best to be prepared. I hope you all make it to your destinations safe and sound. http://www.survivalblog.com/

mamboni | 06-12-2009 05:06 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Jeez, with all those hurdles, I'd say you have a snowball's chance in Hell of getting out. You better get out now - it's the only sure way.:565:

renegade_01 | 06-12-2009 05:11 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... I bugged into Houston when SHTF with IKE. I had to bring preps into town for my ill prepared family. There was NO GAS on the way out there. From Austin to Houston. Luckly I had already bought them a Berky. It was nerve wracking!... but I got it done and drove back to Austin the same day.

Twisted Avatar | 06-12-2009 05:14 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by renegade_01 (Post 1767044) I bugged into Houston when SHTF with IKE. I had to bring preps into town for my ill prepared family. There was NO GAS on the way out there. From Austin to Houston. Luckly I had already bought them a Berky. It was nerve wracking!... but I got it done and drove back to Austin the same day.
How many miles we talking???

Shasta Gold | 06-12-2009 07:08 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Repeat after me: You will not make it out. You will not make it out. You will NOT make it out. If you live in a city, GET OUT NOW. If you stay, and disaster strikes suddenly, you simply will not get out. "Bug out bags" and such and a "plan" won't mean shit. At best, you will shelter in place, and hope for the best...and will need to be ready to kiss your ass good bye. At worst, you will attempt to leave, get caught amidst the masses, and die. I just cannot fathom why anyone who is a member of GIM (or so many survival-oriented fora) would stay in a city after becoming enlightened. For your job? Family? What is more valuable than your life?

Twisted Avatar | 06-12-2009 07:28 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Brother Shasta Starting over is not a simple deal just because you became "enlightened" Of all folks on this forum. .........Im in the position where I only have to look after myself and I can tell you it is no easy feat just pack up and walk out the door. Income and employment are not as replaceable as they once were ( everybody cant do farmhard work for a place to stay) Who can sell there present house in a market like this(credit drying up by the hour) to packup and "go tribal"? Not too many. My Dad is less then 5 miles from me you think I am not going to see after him?? My Pops?? I value my skin .......BUT I VALUE MY FAMILY EVEN MORE. I wont even touch on the aspect if one has kids, spouse and how complex there lives have become. At the end of the day The raw truth is. When the hammer falls. The odds are very high you will be making your stand where your feet are ...........LITERALLY. Prepare as best we can with the resources that are made available. Thats pretty much the whole of it. T

OutlawJoseyWalesJr | 06-12-2009 07:46 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... If a true SHTF scenario really hits then IMO no place is really safe. For people (such as myself) that are living in the city, then they will have to defend themselves. Sure GIM might have enlightened me but that does not mean I will quit my job in the middle of an economic crisis and move somewhere out in the boonies. I could move from my city if I wanted to because I do not have a wife and children to worry about but that does not mean that I want to. I guess I am not a real GIMer since I live in the city. :111:

Shasta Gold | 06-12-2009 09:44 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1767203) When the hammer falls. The odds are very high you will be making your stand where your feet are ...........LITERALLY.
Which is my point. Once "it" happens, where one is one shall stay.

Shasta Gold | 06-12-2009 09:46 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by OutlawJoseyWalesJr (Post 1767215) I guess I am not a real GIMer since I live in the city.
No, it means one of two things: 1) you don't really believe "the shit is going to hit the fan." 2) you accept that it will, but you are prepared to die right where you are.

Jimfrancisco | 06-13-2009 01:52 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... That article is inclined towards the "Shit has totally hit the fan" scenario, and good for it. Carrying a 72-hour bug-out bag at all times makes you a paranoid prick at best, in these times - wise, in much worse times. "Yeah honey, just going to pop round the corner to the 7-11 to get a gallon of milk - got my bag and all". My BO place is 100 miles away, and there are plenty of routes to it I've found using the joy that is a TomTom. The TomTom may not work if it goes really bad, but my memory will.

RiverRat | 06-13-2009 02:41 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... :553: Escape rule #1: Assume the entire population of the US has went stark raving mad. Escape rule #2: See rule #1 A nation of brain dead zombie sheep suddenly cut off from ATM's,food,cell phones,TV,and police protection ? Not to mention being grossly unarmed or outgunned to deal with gang bangers,rogue cops,druggies,nutters,and just plain old typical J6P types who become mentally deranged when the neighbor's cat poops in their yard. Dude...you won't make it 10 blocks with that optimistic Mary Poppins attitude. Reevaluate your version of reality or panic now and avoid the rush. :yes::bear_w00t::yes:

____hoot____ | 06-13-2009 05:11 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... The coming manditory flu "vaccine" has rabbies proteins in it, so the zombie situation may soon be apon us.

elroy | 06-13-2009 06:22 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... I have regularly traveled in, through and around Chicago for many years. Knowing what traffic can be like on any semi-ordinary day, I can't even imagine what would happen in a SHTF scenario. Face it, you either have to get a head start or stay put until things improve or until others are out of gas and off the road. The worst thing would be to get caught on a road miles from home surrounded by thousands of desperate people. They are all going to be looking at you and your stuff like you are the lunch wagon. I think you need to re-consider your plans. Maybe you have a friend nearby with a house [think basement] who would take you in? Hopefully somebody with a similar mindset. Two men stand a much better chance than one man alone. Just a thought.

Agamemnon | 06-13-2009 06:49 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... "I live in the Chicago metropolitan area, yes far behind enemy lines so to speak, and have been a prepper for most of the last 10 years. Like many of us I must live in a big city because of my job." Time to change jobs.

CajunCoin | 06-14-2009 12:42 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... WHY I DO NOT LIVE IN A METROPOLITAN AREA,

thorgrim | 06-14-2009 03:37 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by ____hoot____ (Post 1767731) The coming manditory flu "vaccine" has rabbies proteins in it, so the zombie situation may soon be apon us.
Elaborate, sources? This would actually make a lot of sense if they wanted to create a reason for marshal law.

berkscoin | 06-14-2009 02:30 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Wife and I have decided to shelter in place if SHTF. We have weeks worth of canned foods, MRE's, some dehydrated, some freeze dried. Our basement is totally below grade, no windows, and is completely finished (carpet, bar, sofa, etc.) We have 80 gallons of stored water, plus a Berkey with extra filters. Lots of guns and plenty of ammo. We have hundreds of plastic bags to "go poo" if city water is shut off. Have kerosene heaters and 60 gallons of fuel stored out in the shed. If it's cold, we can stay warm. If it hot and there is no electricity, we will be hot since I don't have a generator (yet). But, the basement stays fairly cool even on hot days. Also have huge rolls of plastic sheeting and lots of duct tape. Who knows, may be of some use. Keep several thousand in cash on hand. Also several hundred ounces of silver 1 ounce bars. Many more items on my buy list including battery operated short wave. Buying little at a time. Much more to list, but signing off for now.

Twisted Avatar | 06-14-2009 02:50 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by berkscoin (Post 1769488) Wife and I have decided to shelter in place if SHTF. We have weeks worth of canned foods, MRE's, some dehydrated, some freeze dried. Our basement is totally below grade, no windows, and is completely finished (carpet, bar, sofa, etc.) We have 80 gallons of stored water, plus a Berkey with extra filters. Lots of guns and plenty of ammo. We have hundreds of plastic bags to "go poo" if city water is shut off. Have kerosene heaters and 60 gallons of fuel stored out in the shed. If it's cold, we can stay warm. If it hot and there is no electricity, we will be hot since I don't have a generator (yet). But, the basement stays fairly cool even on hot days. Also have huge rolls of plastic sheeting and lots of duct tape. Who knows, may be of some use. Keep several thousand in cash on hand. Also several hundred ounces of silver 1 ounce bars. Many more items on my buy list including battery operated short wave. Buying little at a time. Much more to list, but signing off for now.
Sounds like the Post Oil Man Do ya thing baby!!!! :ok: You Tube
You Tube

GOLD DUCK | 06-14-2009 03:12 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... QWAK,I lived in Chicago --just a block away from the "BIOGRAPH" theater in new town befor I moved to the DUCK NEST in 88 -- bought the DUCK NEST 40 achers of rocks and trees with a 15'x30' shell of a cabin in 81 and worked two jobs to make the rent and 10% contract payments on the land.:yes: Things NEVER go as you IMAGIN or PLAN :452: I had to move to the DUCK NEST in 88 because First I got crushed under my truck and then the building I lived in had a fire and became UNINHABITABLE!:yes: I moved to the cabin to SURVIVE:yes: I had $800.00 a mo. disability to live on and almost HALF was to make the CONTRACT payment each month! My point IS -- people even my self tend NOT to make MAJOR life changes untill the HAVE TO:yes: and more often than NOT it seems the ONLY VIABLE choice.:wink: IF you have any OPTIONS other than major change -- most likely YOU will chose thoes options RATHER than what LONG TERM you plan/hope to do ONE DAY or SOME DAY!:thinkey::yes: the DUCK

macrohard | 06-14-2009 06:30 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Trying to survive and hunker down in a large city is going to be hard. You'll have plenty of opportunities to get out before people start going desperate and realize that they're screwed.

Shasta Gold | 06-14-2009 06:37 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by macrohard (Post 1769756) Trying to survive and hunker down in a large city is going to be hard. You'll have plenty of opportunities to get out before people start going desperate and realize that they're screwed.
Yes, like the last 5 years... Once it hits, it's OVER.

Twisted Avatar | 06-17-2009 10:56 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Follow up Letter and comentary on OP. Letter Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here), 2009 Mr. Rawles, Concerning the article: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here), 2009, by Bill in Chicagoland, I would like to add to these comments. My 20 years experience driving the county roads and the farmer ranch roads with the Soil Conservation Service have given me a perspective of the potential for choice this road system presents. I have a considerable amount of experience driving cross country. I have driven from the Northern Texas panhandle across the Oklahoma Panhandle into southeastern Colorado and north to the Colorado Springs area on mostly gravel and dirt roads. Several times I have driven the 250+ miles from Denver Colorado to Salina Kansas mainly on dirt/gravel roads or county blacktop roads. This particular trip is paralleling the major river valleys throughout this area. The interstate roads basically follow the uplands/highlands avoiding the river/creek valley bottoms. That portion of the drainage system between rivers called the upland or divide area. Up on these area you have minimum drainage systems to cross. Only when the rivers and major creeks make a jog south or southeast do you find a major drainage system to cross. Why are drainage systems death to bugging out? You can cross them only on bridges, and bridges are [logical ambush sites and hence potentially] death traps. Here is an example: West of Oklahoma City, you'll see that I-40 strikes out to the west. Now, let's clarify something. [Even in most plains states,] there are no paralleling roads to interstates that extend for extensive distances. Yes, there are some that may parallel for 20 to 30 miles. But as soon as the interstate jogs you get the paralleling road intersecting the interstate or its diverting away in a direction you may not want. If you do not know your area well, you can get boxed in quickly. West of Oklahoma City striking in a southeasterly direction is the Canadian River. The interstate crosses the Canadian river in the Hinton/Geary area. That is some 35 miles west of Oklahoma City. The next Canadian river crossing on the north side of the interstate is just northeast of Thomas. That is 23 miles west and 13 miles north of the interstate. So�you come barreling out of Oklahoma City and find the interstate clogged. Look again at the map. The city of Oklahoma City has a major river running through it. The North Canadian River. You cannot get on the Interstate. The bridges going over the North Canadian River south are filled with traffic. You opt to set out west through Oklahoma City on a street that will take you west to El Reno and then on to points west following the Interstate. But you cannot do this on the north side of the interstate. And the south side of the Interstate is closed off because of the bridges across the North Canadian River are jammed full. The road system on the north side is a maze of closed roads, dead end roads that all end up down in the Canadian River valley. And in the 60 miles west of Oklahoma City only one bridge crosses the Canadian River on the north that can keep you on any kind of westerly tract. That�s at Thomas. The closer bridge only gets you down to the interstate and it will be clogged full at that point. So you make it to Thomas overland on the secondary roads. What now? You now have a dozen or more large creeks all running southerly into the Washita River. You have to cross them if you continue cross country. Yes, you can get on Highway 33 west but I would guess that many others will have the same idea. You also have Foss Lake complex and its National Wildlife Refuge area to get around. Another major obstruction. Going west now on secondary roads you will notice the interstate drifting in a SW direction. You are getting further away all the time. Backtrack: What did you miss on the map? By the way, what map am I now looking at? A copy of a DeLorme Atlas & Gazetteer [Get one for your state, and contiguous states]. You missed the railroad bridge. Where? Find Bridgeport between Hinton and Geary. See the railroad track symbol where it crosses the river. Now, the following separates the men from the boys. When I was 16 my buddy�s father was the Missouri Pacific�s depot agent in Larned, Kansas. We knew the train schedules. We conquered our fears and put my 1948 Dodge car on the rails. Yes you can drive down the rails. You do not have to let the air out of the tires. Just slow down when you go over road crossings and switches. We rode the rails for miles. We even crossed over the Arkansas River railroad bridge. That was scary to think about the wheels coming off the rails way out over that 150 yard long bridge. But we drove this way, and so can you. You will need to be very cautious doing this. Sending people ahead with radios to the top of a close high point so they can see the tracks some miles away. Giving you time to cross. What speed can you expect to make? We used to cruise 10 to 15 miles per hour. My 1948 Dodge had a traditional hand throttle that you could set. [JWR Adds This Proviso: Hy-rail pickups and dedicated speeder vehicles have been previously discussed in SurvivalBlog here and here. Please read those article and heed the safety and liability warnings. Riding rails on car tires without supplementary alignment aids is foolhardy. There is a lot that can go wrong in a hurry! Don't attempt improvised rail travel this unless it is an total SHTF disaster situation and there is absolutely no alternative, and only then with someone playing "ground guide", and with certain knowledge of the train schedule (or by doing so only on a rail line that is known with certainty to be inactive.)] This is dangerous. Be careful. It is also illegal. The thesis of this presentation is several fold: 1. There are no extensive long parallel roads along most interstates. 2. You must have a set of the DeLorme atlases or similar detailed maps for where you are going. Better to have a set for every state that surrounds you. If you live in the prairie states get a set for every state within two states in every direction. 3. You also need to have a map showing just the counties and the river systems. 4. You must drive you routes in advance on both sides of the interstate. Note that Item #3 above is necessary to have a map of the rivers. You can plot a general route that will keep you on the uplands/divide between the river/creek systems when you cross country. The system described here is good only for the plains states between the Rockies and the Mississippi River. It will work in the area between the Missouri and Mississippi further north in most of those areas. But once you get into the Ozark highlands, the southern deserts off the Rocky Mountains and in the swampy country next to seashores and the Southern States it does not work. Nor in the Appalachian mountains. The west coast is another whole problem. The central portion of the US, the prairie states have a grid road system laid out in township and sections. This allows a great amount of choice for travel. Areas that do not have this system are much more constrained as to overland travel. Driving cross country you will find [some straight] dirt and gravel roads that can be negotiated at 45 to 60 miles an hour. Be cautious and slow down at every road junction and at the crest of all hills that you cannot see over. Some where out there you will crest a hill and find a slow tractor pulling a swather or a large combine with a 20 foot wide head on it suddenly in your way. You must use caution on these back roads. Do not assume that all dangers are marked. You may find dead end roads just over a crest with a 4 foot tall wall of dirt and a deep ditch in front of you at 55 mph. Crash, end of journey. Be careful of bridges. There are still may bridges out there with wood decking. It can be weak, have nails sticking up and or tire wide gaps in them. I have also seen concrete bridges built by the WPA in the 1930s with holes in the deck more than two feet across and not marked with any warning signs. Vital equipment for cross country driving: 1. Binoculars or spotting scope 2. Weather scanner 3. Maps 4. Jacks with wooden blocks to put under them for support. 5. Shovels 6. Tow chains 7. Tire chains. 8. Bolt cutters and wire cutters Beware of sudden rain showers on dirt roads. Soils high in clay particles will shed rain and appear to be shiny. They are called �slick spot� soils. You will not sink into them. But rather your vehicle will just want to slide over into the ditch if the road is not flat. These roads are slick! It is possible to put a vehicle into a low gear; get out and walk along the side steering and pushing or pulling sideways to keep it in the center as you walk along. Better when there are several people to help. I have accomplished this for stretches of road further than one quarter of a mile when I worked as a District Conservationist with the Soil Conservation Service. Avoid showers in the distance. Drive out of their way if possible. Stop on a stable section of road and wait for the sun to come out. Slick spot roads can dry out in one hour or less and be drivable as if no rain fell there for days. Genuine cross country driving:. If you find roads blocked with wreckage, power poles, washed out bridges, trees and or a group of freebooters who demand tribute, then you need to have thought of an alternative. There is an alternative to simply turning around and being chased. Cut the wire on the fence and drive away out across the land. Best done out of site of the freebooters. Wire the fence back up so it is not too obvious that someone has exited the road at that point. You will need bolt cutters. A 24 inch pair will suffice. For chains at gates or locks you need a 36 inch-long set and a hacksaw blade with extra blades. Carry along several locks. If you cut off a lock replace it. If you have to come back you can open it quickly and lock it putting a good barrier between you and any belligerents that want to discuss the situation with you. If you lack a lock that looks like the one you have cut. Super glue it shut. You can always re-cut it a second time if necessary. Carry with you two 2x4s that are 10 feet long, each pierced with 20 penny nails arrayed close together. Drill holes that are just small enough to provide the friction to seat the nails so they will not come out easily. Drill two 5/8 inch holes in each end. Cut half inch rebar stakes 12 to 16 inches long and sharpen then to a decent cone shape on one end. You will need a 4 pound hammer to seat them into a roadbed. So, say that you approach a hill crest slowly and glassing the road ahead, you see a group of freebooters down the road. They see your heads and cab of a pickup sticking up over the crest. Whooom, here they come. Get out the spiked 2x4 and nail it down across the road with the rebar. Leave and when they come roaring up over the crest their tires will have lunch with the spikes. Flat tires have a way of ending pursuit. If you encounter groups of people who are belligerent but appear not to be shooters. Place a spiked 2x4 across the front of your steel safety grill and make a run for them. They will not want to get spiked as you go by. It will keep them away from the windows and doors. [JWR Adds This Proviso: Caltrops have been used as a defensive measure for centuries. I have my doubts about their utility in daylight, but they might prove useful at night. To be useful in daylight for defense against vehicle-borne looters approaching a retreat slowly, caltrops or tire spikes would have to be concealed, which is a huge legal liability. Because we live in very litigious times, I DO NOT recommend using caltrops or tire spike strips in in anything but an absolute worst-case TEOTWAWKI situation, where you are completely on your own to defend your retreat, and there is no longer a functioning law enforcement or court system. Using them in any lesser situation is an invitation to a hugely expensive civil lawsuit and possible criminal sanctions. An ambulance-chasing attorney would have a field day, and the likely result would be that you would lose everything that you own in settling a lawsuit. Ironically, this is an example of where using deadly force against an intruder (namely, a firearm) is less likely to result in a lawsuit than a non-lethal weapon. Civil court juries tend to be very sympathetic to "maimed" plaintiffs, and are prone to award disproportionately huge "pain and suffering" damages. Caltrops and tire spikes are banned in some states in the US, and Australia. With all that said, commercially made caltrops are available, as are tire spike strips, although most manufacturers will only sell them to law enforcement agencies ordering on department letterhead. The best of these use hollow spikes, so they can defeat even self-sealing tires. And example of this type is the HOllow-Spike TYre Deflation System (HOSTYDS), manufactured in the UK.] Crossing Interstate Highways All interstate roads will have at some point a significant water gap. It will be big enough for you to drive through. Be very careful. These can have plunge basins formed on the down stream side that are many feet deep. Can be clogged with old fence wire and tree limbs. They can be swampy and full of washed in silt that is solid on the top and unstable to support weight underneath. You can get stuck and never get out. Scout these places carefully. Remember you may be driving under the interstate that is packed above with people who have gotten desperate. And you may be able to just drive up to the interstate, cut a fence on one side and drive across weaving through parked cars, perhaps, if you are lucky. Get the maps. Study them. Drive the [primary, secondary, and tertiary] routes. Anything less is a modified death wish. Rule #1: Leave early. Rule #2: Remember, you can never schedule an emergency.

Darkside | 06-17-2009 11:11 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... The discussion here really reminds me of a short story by David Crawford aka Halfast I think it was this one called The Bug Out: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=172494 it's about one family escaping from their home to a bug out location short read but really good same guy who wrote Lights Out

dimitri | 06-17-2009 12:34 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... The book referenced in the original post is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot...oming_Collapse I am about halfway through it, it is a good book that reads like a survival manual. Though it is peppered with a bit too much Christian evangelism.

GOLD DUCK | 06-17-2009 01:23 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... QWAK,Aparently having "GPS" just won't cut it!:452::signs14::4_1_72: the DUCK

Twisted Avatar | 06-18-2009 11:13 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... More Comentary Two Letters Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here), 2009 JWR: I liked JC in Oklahoma's reply to Escape From (Fill in Your City Here), 2009 but with all due respect, I would not cut someone else's lock. Most gates that I have seen around where I live, have a chain with a lock. I would advise cutting a link out of the chain and attaching your lock, like a replacement link. This way you keep the owner somewhat happy and still accomplish the task of passing thru the gate as well as being able to cross back through. Now I need to get out and check what routes I might use to leave in a hurry. - Jim B Jim, My father-in-law just bought a Cessna 172 [single engine light aircraft] and that got me thinking about this. An option folks might consider is getting out by air. Depending on the nature of the emergency, escape by light airplane might be a very viable option for those who learn to fly and stay current enough to be relatively safe (that is to say, maybe not totally legal but good enough to pull off a single long trip in good weather). I say relatively because in a SHTF scenario, some things just don't matter quite as much. I'd much rather risk my life flying while not totally current than wait in my single-story house for a fallout cloud to arrive. It has been almost twenty years since I took the bulk of my flying lessons. (I had logged 45 hours total and needed only my last cross-country and a check ride when I ran out of [flight training] money) but I've flown a number of times since and have no doubt I could get from here to a thousand miles from here if the weather was good and I could carry or otherwise obtain enough fuel. I figure a guy has two options for getting a plane if TSHTF. The first, and ideal, option is to have a cultivated relationship with the flight school owner or operator. If TSHTF, you call him at home and rent the plane. The second, and it is doubtless you (Jim) won't like it, is to "borrow" a plane using a key you cut the last time that you rented it. Cycle through renting all of the planes during your instruction and you'll have your choice of aircraft... Of course taking a plane without permission is theft, but the intention is to return the plane. If it's life or death I'll deal with the ethical questions later. Remember, these are flight school planes rented to students, not "another man's food" and if it really did hit the fan, people aren't going to be lining up for flying lessons today anyway. [JWR Adds: While I cannot condone theft, I should mention that is common practice, particularly with flight schools at small airports, to have all of the yoke or throttle locks keyed-alike, for the convenience of the instructor pilots. Also, most throttle shaft locks are not very robust. In an emergency, a pair of bolt cutters can be used to remove a lock. And furthermore, on many aircraft models, the throttle knob is held in place with one or two Allen head set screws, or made of molded plastic, and can therefore be cut, crushed, or otherwise removed, allowing a throttle shaft lock to then be slid off.] There are a couple logistical considerations here. One is fuel. Some light planes can burn autogas (car gas) but many require leaded Avgas. In either case, you'll need to be prepared to carry enough fuel to get you where you need to go. It is doubtful that in any situation that requires that you 'borrow' a plane that fuel pumps will be operational at your intermediate stops. Even if the automated pumps work, the credit card networks could be down. You might be able to siphon gas (more theft) from other parked planes bring. a self-priming siphon!) but to be safe you're going to have to carry full gas cans. Research into lead substitutes might be useful, though I'm unsure if any suitable products exist. Better perhaps to concentrate on planes that can burn automotive gasoline. [JWR Adds: Tetraethyl lead (TEL) is sold under the trade name Octane Supreme 130 (and other names, sold at some General Aviation flight centers, FBOs, and at automotive speed shops.) It can be used, but it must be carried in a container that has a perfect seal, even with pressure changes. Do NOT carry it in an aircraft passenger compartment. Parenthetically, there is "TEL Tale" in the biography of Charles Lindbergh. A leaky cap on a large can of TEL stowed behind his seat once almost killed him, while on a flying tour of South America. (He very nearly passed out and crashed.) Keep in mind that when used in ground vehicles, TEL will foul oxygen sensors very quickly, and of curse cannot be used in vehicles with catalytic converters. Its use would also violate Federal Clean Air standards, so it would not be legal for use on public highways. Keep in mind that TEL can be used to extend the useful life of "elderly" stored stabilized gasoline, as well as of course mixing your own high-octane blend from stored low-octane gas, so I recommend keeping a couple of bottles on hand.] The second logistical problem is payload, and it is greatly affected by the fuel problem. Most light planes cannot safely carry a full load of passengers and bags plus a full load of fuel. If you're carrying jerry cans of gas, don't count on taking much in the way of baggage and there's no way you'll be able to fill every seat with a passenger. Most of the weight and balance calculations with regard to fuel, passengers and baggage can be worked out ahead of time though, so you'll know what you can pull off. In the end this will only work for someone who has pre-positioned their supplies [at their retreat. This approach has advantages: Zero traffic jams. Zero river crossings. Zero chance of being looted on the highway. Again, I'm only suggesting this as a last-ditch SHTF way to get out of Dodge. I would not steal food if doing so could potentially cause someone else to starve. Same thing on a weapon, vehicle or any other item. But in my mind the the equation is simple here: My life is worth more than a flight school's airplane. In the end this is an extremely unlikely scenario, but it's an arrow in your quiver and a fun one to prepare for. - Matt R

GOLD DUCK | 06-18-2009 11:44 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... QWAK,Off the wall a bit BUT:10_1_19: I concidered buying a dozen large WEATHER BALOONS and with TARPS NETTING and ROPE and perhaps a small aluminum boat with a gas engen and an apropretly sized propeller I could build my own DERAGABLE!:thinkey::shine: I bought the baloons,tarps and NETING and rope and a 6' propeller!:yes: HELIUM was the problem -- very expencive so it seemed that hydrogen generated with solar pannels and water would be the only pratical way to make it work,plus could always generate more.:yes: IF there is enough lift could also use electric motor with solar pannels on top and battery to power the home made deragable.:thinkey: Think "WATER WORLD":wink: I believe it could be DOABLE!:yes::shine: the DUCK

Argentsum | 06-18-2009 12:10 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... I don't think bugging out will be practical unless you have some place you can bug out to. The needs of shelter usually supercedes the needs of security. Unless you are escaping the flames of a fire, heading out into the great unknown during the TEOTWAWKI is crazy. The cities may have had police and fire services disrupted and trigger happy national guard types but the countryside will have zero services as all the services (such that they exist) will be pulled into the areas of greatest need (the cities). Along the path of refugees, all resources will have been removed by the owners or looted by the refugees. Think Locusts. Consider also that most established refugee routes will lead you straight to the camps. If you have nothing and don't know how to live off the land, or if you have no where to go then I'd recommend heading to the camps. It won't be fun but you might live. I have a bug out bag but my situation is unusual. I work in the big city but my major domicile is 55 miles away. In the event of a disaster I may leave the city as I have somewhere to go. I am prepared to do this, on-foot, if necessary. 55 miles doesn't sound like much but depending on how bad it gets...anyone done a stint with the infantry and recall how long tactical marches take? Eight miles a day in hostile countryside is a good pace. If it gets that bad and depending on the weather, I'd give myself one chance in three of making it on my own resources, and I feel well prepared. Hoofing it alone is always a dicey scenario. Its not a bad idea to have a bug out bag even if you have no place to go. Disasters are a fluid environment and having an option, even if its a grim option, is better then no option.

Twisted Avatar | 06-18-2009 12:51 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentsum (Post 1776088) I don't think bugging out will be practical unless you have some place you can bug out to. The needs of shelter usually supercedes the needs of security. Unless you are escaping the flames of a fire, heading out into the great unknown during the TEOTWAWKI is crazy. The cities may have had police and fire services disrupted and trigger happy national guard types but the countryside will have zero services as all the services (such that they exist) will be pulled into the areas of greatest need (the cities). Along the path of refugees, all resources will have been removed by the owners or looted by the refugees. Think Locusts. Consider also that most established refugee routes will lead you straight to the camps. If you have nothing and don't know how to live off the land, or if you have no where to go then I'd recommend heading to the camps. It won't be fun but you might live. I have a bug out bag but my situation is unusual. I work in the big city but my major domicile is 55 miles away. In the event of a disaster I may leave the city as I have somewhere to go. I am prepared to do this, on-foot, if necessary. . If it gets that bad and depending on the weather, I'd give myself one chance in three of making it on my own resources, and I feel well prepared. Hoofing it alone is always a dicey scenario. Its not a bad idea to have a bug out bag even if you have no place to go. Disasters are a fluid environment and having an option, even if its a grim option, is better then no option.
Under that scenario it will take almost 7 days to reach your compound I hope the neighboors are good folk to keep the place safe until you arrive. T

Argentsum | 06-18-2009 01:18 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1776136) Under that scenario it will take almost 7 days to reach your compound I hope the neighboors are good folk to keep the place safe until you arrive. T
Assuming a worst case, yes, and yes, my neighbors are my friends. The community I live in is, very generally speaking, white bread, rural, clannish, mormon, right-wing, with a healthy dislike of government and a healthy liking for hunting, fishing, and guns in general. We watch each other's property as a matter of course. On my refrigerator is a list of my neighbor's phone numbers, but most of them are already memorized from frequent use. Last weekend we attended my next door neighbor daughter's graduation from nursing school. She's now a RN and we were very generous in providing a graduation gift. The more RN's in the neighborhood, the better. I bought two cords of wood from the fellow two mailboxes down the road from me. I mention these things to underscore that I interact well and often with my neighbors. Some of my neighbors are starting to feel like extended family. Would that you could do half as well. :36_3_13:

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Twisted Avatar | 06-18-2009 01:25 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... You got yourself a winner there. AND YOU KNOW IT. Great going on the home front :ok: T

oldmansmith | 06-18-2009 01:32 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentsum (Post 1776165) Assuming a worst case, yes, and yes, my neighbors are my friends. The community I live in is, very generally speaking, white bread, rural, clannish, mormon, right-wing, with a healthy dislike of government and a healthy liking for hunting, fishing, and guns in general. We watch each other's property as a matter of course. On my refrigerator is a list of my neighbor's phone numbers, but most of them are already memorized from frequent use. Last weekend we attended my next door neighbor daughter's graduation from nursing school. She's now a RN and we were very generous in providing a graduation gift. The more RN's in the neighborhood, the better. I bought two cords of wood from the fellow two mailboxes down the road from me. I mention these things to underscore that I interact well and often with my neighbors. Some of my neighbors are starting to feel like extended family. Would that you could do half as well. :36_3_13:
Agree, you need to "bug out" where you are now. If you can't do it where you are, then what the hell are you waiting for? BUG OUT NOW! Realtionships with others in your community take years to develop. Edit: I didn't mean you Argentsum, although foot travel may be problematic if deperate people are trying to rob you.

Argentsum | 06-18-2009 01:50 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Screw the bug out location. Seriously, you ought to try country living before your too old to chop wood. Fewer people at your elbow enjoins a natural sense of freedom that a city can't provide. If you don't want the country lifestyle now, why would you want to adjust to it during TEOTWAWKI? Rural living is a lifestyle. Get out and live it now!

Jack London | 06-18-2009 02:17 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1767016) Escape From (Fill in Your City Here), 2009, by Bill in Chicagoland <Sarcasm on> I know, I know, Chicago has very strict gun laws so there won�t be any shooting except by a few gun-toting NRA/survivalist types <Sarcasm off>. http://www.survivalblog.com/
I hope you are kidding about this line. I too live in the capital of the midwest, and I regularly read about gun violence in the city. And absolutely none of it is perpetrated by "gun-toting NRA/survivalist types." You had better be prepared to shoot your way out, if you get out at all. I tend to agree with the others who suggest moving now. Start reading up on country living. Figure out how you can make a living with your own skills. I have (as some of you know) made the commitment to moving away from Chicago. As wonderful a city as it is, it is a death trap in a real SHTF scenario. If TSHTF expect to lose the power grid. Or maybe a loss of the power grid is what will cause TSTHTF. But with that said, no power, no groceries, no gas, no water to put out the fires, no refrigeration to cool the bodies stacking up in the morgues, etc. Expect outright war in the cities within two weeks without power, and cannibalism within a month. As awful as things could get, it is not unrealistic to think it could happen and prepare for it. The only realistic plan to "bug out," is to do so before it is a crisis. After that, well, you might as well make the best of it where you are.

AOW | 06-18-2009 03:31 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... I've got raw land in the mountains around 65 miles from where I live that I could always bug out to but there isn't much there now and the winters are rough. I'm always trying to improve what I've got there but just this past winter my "cabin" collapsed from the heavy snow load so I'm back to square one. I'd have to do some serious work up there to make it comfortable year-round for my family. That said, I plan to weather a SHTF situation at my home in the city. I've got good neighbors who mostly look out for each other and I've got my place pretty well set up for hunkering down. It's the place we're most comfortable by a longshot and while I'd be up at the property away from it all if it was just me, I have to look out for the family and accept what comes with that. I do feel things would be breaking down over time and not overnight and I would have many opportunities to reevaluate my strategy.

morganchaser | 06-18-2009 05:40 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... While everyone else is leaving the city: I'll be blazing down the freeway towards Portland. :565: The resistence needs me. Hell: I could probably take a school bus full of food and gas and do some profiteering off the smucks stuck in trafic. Makes me think I should have stocked up on more M1895 Nagants. Talk about squatters heaven. I'll be living the good life in abandoned yuppie housing.

GOLD DUCK | 06-18-2009 05:45 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by morganchaser (Post 1776538) While everyone else is leaving the city: I'll be blazing down the freeway towards Portland. :565: The resistence needs me. Hell: I could probably take a school bus full of food and gas and do some profiteering off the smucks stuck in trafic. Makes me think I should have stocked up on more M1895 Nagants. Talk about squatters heaven. I'll be living the good life in abandoned yuppie housing.
QWAK,morganchaser, I YOUR DREAMS:4_8_4v: just go back to sleep with your M16!:4_1_72: the DUCK :15_1_70v:

morganchaser | 06-18-2009 06:21 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLD DUCK (Post 1776547) QWAK,morganchaser, I YOUR DREAMS:4_8_4v: just go back to sleep with your M16!:4_1_72: the DUCK :15_1_70v:
:36_1_34: I guess maybe I should leave the dangerous shit to the pros and focus on the supply side where I can help. It's a fun dream though!

Shasta Gold | 06-18-2009 07:09 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside (Post 1774203) The discussion here really reminds me of a short story by David Crawford aka Halfast I think it was this one called The Bug Out: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=172494 it's about one family escaping from their home to a bug out location short read but really good same guy who wrote Lights Out
That story is an awesome, extremely credible illustration of how FOOLISH it would be to try to escape in the midst of a crisis.

Shasta Gold | 06-18-2009 07:21 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1775997) An option folks might consider is getting out by air.
Until the FAA orders a full ground-stop like on 9/11, and orders you SHOT DOWN. People! Come on, why is everyone trying to create sophisticated & complex plans to escape death traps in the midst of all hell breaking loose when the only obvious solution is simple? You only have two options: 1) you can stay in your city, shelter in place in the midst of apocalypse, and hope for the best. 2) you can GET OUT NOW, and locate your family in a defensible location before all hell breaks loose. People objected before, and they'll object again, but this is REALITY: if you think that your cosmopolitan, city living is going to come to an abrupt end in the future, whether it be due to natural disaster, economic collapse, a terrorist attack, or whatever, you have only one responsible, sane, highly-effective way to get yourself out of harm's way. That is: LEAVE NOW, before it comes, find a small town or smaller and move there. Find new employment. Please don't whine how "hard" it would be to find new employment or unload your current home. If you really believe the shit is approaching the whirling blades, then you owe it to your own and yourself to act prudently. Imagine selling your current home after it's been burned to the ground. Imagine getting a new job if you're DEAD. NO EXCUSES: DO IT - NOW.

Twisted Avatar | 06-18-2009 07:33 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta Gold (Post 1776693) Imagine selling your current home after it's been burned to the ground. Imagine getting a new job if you're DEAD. NO EXCUSES: DO IT - NOW.
Dam .......so thats how I sound when I harp on silver eh? Brother Shasta is taking no prisoners on this one. Cracking that whip across all backs!!! You Tube
You Tube

Horn | 06-18-2009 07:49 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1776720) Brother Shasta is taking no prisoners on this one. Cracking that whip across all backs!!!
No, I'm sure he's quite more selective.

Igotyour6 | 06-18-2009 11:14 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside (Post 1774203) The discussion here really reminds me of a short story by David Crawford aka Halfast I think it was this one called The Bug Out: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=172494 it's about one family escaping from their home to a bug out location short read but really good same guy who wrote Lights Out
good read, sounds like the bad guys should have been doing a bit more rifle practice too...4 armed with AK's against one .45...maybe I just drill to much, but I think..no never mind. it was a good read for sure

Shasta Gold | 06-19-2009 12:10 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn (Post 1776752) No, I'm sure he's quite more selective.
Only those who drink Grape or Orange soda. :biggrin:

Horn | 06-19-2009 03:57 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta Gold (Post 1777193) Only those who drink Grape or Orange soda. :biggrin:
Do you hear the footsteps in your ear, Shastama? You Tube
You Tube

Twisted Avatar | 06-21-2009 11:33 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta Gold (Post 1777193) Only those who drink Grape or Orange soda. :biggrin:
A man of good taste I see :ok:

Twisted Avatar | 06-22-2009 11:25 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... More commentary....... Two Letters Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here), 2009 Dear Jim:, All this recent discussion by SurvivalBlog readers about hot-wiring airplanes, and cutting fences and locks is missing some basic, well, let's just say "applied ethics". Recall the Golden Rule "Do unto others as they have done unto you". Flip the situation around and look at it from the property owner's view: How would you feel if you saw someone stealing your airplane? (Your life savings in an aircraft.) How would you feel upon noticing someone cutting the fence or gate that keeps your cattle off the road? Granted, in a life-threatening emergency you may morally take liberties with other folk's property that are not normally available. If a rancher saw someone drive through their fence because they were being hotly pursued by criminals - they would probably be understanding of the circumstances. If a rancher or farmer saw someone with bolt cutters working on their fence - someone who has obviously premeditated trespassing - at the very least they are going to be confronted. In a really bad situation, perhaps after dark, it could easily end up in a situation where they will be shot. The wise and honorable person will pre-plan ethical actions. The obvious macro solution is getting out of Dodge early. If you are going to pre-plan using an airplane, then preplan by becoming a trusted rental customer, know how to contact the owner on short notice and rent for cash, with a security deposit in gold coin. The suggestion to cut a link and add a lock to a gate rather than cutting the lock makes sense so you have not destroyed the property owner's lock. But be extremely cautious about planning on trespassing on other folk's property... I wouldn't imagine country folk are going to take trespassing lightly in an emergency - I can't see how it could be done safely unless you can hail the farmhouse for permission. Any ranchers out there with an idea how this scenario could be handled ethically and safely? Regards, - OSOM JWR Replies: I concur, wholeheartedly. It is just one small step from applied ethics to applied ballistics. It is of the utmost importance to respect the property of others. While utilizing BLM or or other public land in an emergency is a given, simply cutting across private farm or ranch land in the midst of a disaster is likely to get interlopers well-ventilated rather quickly. Put yourself in the position of a rancher. If in the midst of a societal collapse you saw someone breaking open your locked gate, what would you do? For many, the answer will be "shoot first and ask questions later." As I have emphasized time and time again in my writings, the very best approach is to live at your retreat year-round. That is great for retirees and the self-employed. But for many folks that is impossible, because or work and family obligations. So the next best approach is to have a very well-stocked, very secure retreat, and maintaining your readiness to get there on very short notice. Nearly all of your key logistics should be pre-positioned at your retreat. Do not think in terms of finessing your gear into the cubic feet available in your vehicle. If you take the time to shoehorn things in, you are probably wasting precious time that should be spent on the road, getting out of town in advance of the Golden Horde. Just a one hour delay could mean the difference between smooth sail and ending up in a a monumental traffic jam that soon becomes a linear parking lot. You should simply keep one Bug Out Bag (typically a backpack) and a supplementary duffle bag ready at all times. Be ready to grab them and go. Pre-positioning your gear eliminates much of the worry and confusion of a Get Out of Dodge situation. Needless to say, you'll need a Plan B and a Plan C. You may end up on a bicycle, or on foot. Think things through, plan ahead, and act morally. If and when things fall apart, you want to be part of the solution, rather than contributing to the problem. James, In response to our reader's suggestion of using a Cessna172 for escaping. That is probably one of the poorest choices I could imagine. It has many faults and I'll list them FWIW. First of all I have over 2,500+ hours flying Air Charter and Air Taxi under Part 135 FAA Regs. I took the same tests flying single and twin engine aircraft as any airline pilot did with the only exception was that I was not required to have a first class medical as they did. So I am twin engine, Commercial and Instrument rated. Problems with a Cessna 172: It does not have a big payload especially when fully-fueled and the tendency to overload it would be great and dangerous. Automotive fuel should not be used, i.e. I would not fly one filled with automotive fuel. Tests were done with using it years ago and many problems were found. Aircraft weather [data] would most likely be unavailable. VOR and other navigation aids would probably also be unavailable. Okay, If you had a GPS unit you might be able to navigate. Our lifeblood, gasoline would most likely by unavailable, especially aviation gas since it can be used in automobiles and would be subject to being stolen if the electricity to pump it out was available. I used to run a tank of 100 low lead aviation gas through my motorcycle about once a month. Runways could and most likely would be obstructed or otherwise cluttered from looting, fuel, oil theft, etc., etc.. Without weather information what would be your chances of finding a suitable landing strip or even an open highway strip if you found yourself approaching thunder storms, icing conditions fog, or a large [weather] front. If you could or did land, especially under power, would attract the looters for the fuel and whatever else you have in the plane. ILS, VOR or even ADF stations could or would be off the air making a bad weather approach deadly. You could, literally, be shot out of the air by angry looters thinking the plane may contain supplies they want or just by some idiot with sufficient ammo angry at their situation. I know of a glider pilot shot through the arm by a guy who lived by the airport. The preceding is just a drop in the bucket. I could go on. I did consider "borrowing" an aircraft to get home should the SHTF while I was far from home but it would be just to get home and all conditions would be carefully considered and near perfect. It would not be a bug-out option should I need to bug out. IMHO an aircraft might be an option very early on in a SHTF situation but again conditions would have to be very favorable. - Larry in Pennsylvania

Twisted Avatar | 06-22-2009 11:26 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Five Letters Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here), 2009 Jim, I live in a rural farming area east of the Mississippi and can tell you that cutting a gate or fence would be a very bad choice (in this area). In 99% of the cases you would already be on private property, so cutting the fence or gate would be considered a �hostile� act. Most of the folks I know would shot first and ask questions later . . . these folks all hunt, so they are not likely to miss . . . and trust me they know when someone is on their property. When the police are called, you will find they are a relative or friend of the local (we are very rural) . . . and the �strangers� will be just �bagged and tagged�. If you must cross a gated or fenced area, stop, honk your horn, jump up and down, o anything to get the property owners attention, he is probably watching anyway . . . who knows you might turn out to be an asset to him instead of a liability. I do not want to make this sound all negative. We all know that living at your retreat full-time is the best option, but circumstances may make that impossible for you; your job or just the finances to make that kind of a move. The real question is do you believe bad things can and will happen? If so what are you going to do that is practical and realistic? �Borrowing� a plane might be a cool idea, but it is far from realistic. Several have already commented on this point and I happen to be a retired Naval aviator with more hours and experience than I care to remember, and flying to my retreat would be the last option I�d consider (we live at our retreat full-time, but do travel). If �your� plan involves some exotic way of escaping the metropolis you live in then you are planning to stay too late (that includes having to take back roads)! You will have to establish �trigger events� that make the decision to execute �your� depart plan (what those trigger events are up to you, based on your analysis and understanding of events.) If you wait until it is obvious to everyone then you are �way too late�. And that is the rub: are you willing to give up your comfortable city life for a survival existence, on a �chance� that �this is it�? If the answer is �no� then best of luck to you, you will need it. If the answer is �yes� then you had better figure out a way to preposition your items, at a location that involves more than just your family . . . and then maybe you will have a fighting chance to survive the transition. None of this is easy, but if you really want to provide for and protect your family then what other options do you have. You can rely on the government to see to your basic needs (it�s called being a refugee), or you can do all within your power to provide realistic options for them yourself. The choice is yours. - RH in Virginia Dear SurvivalBlog Readers: I want to preface my comments by saying that I have the utmost respect for JWR, his work, and all the readers and contributors to this site. I understand and hold close the essential tenets of independence and preparedness, living as I have my whole life in the heart of Southern California earthquake country. That said, the recent string of essays about escaping a city when TSHTF is complete nonsense. The thought that if you get out early you�ll leave everyone else behind is fantasy thinking. The fact is that in such a situation just about everyone will be thinking about getting out and many will act on that impulse. That means that EVERY freeway, EVERY back road, EVERY intersection, and EVERY town will soon be filled with hoards of roaming people, all of whom will be unprepared, scared, and desperate. You might � MIGHT � actually get a jump the situation and beat the hoards out of the city but a human tidal wave will be right behind you, spreading out in all directions, many thousands of which will be heading right to wherever it is you�re going. Further, a good percentage of the roaming hoards will be street criminals and gang members. Many will be military vets who had advanced training in tactics and equipment and they�ll all be heavily armed � in many cases, better equipped than the local law enforcement. In the short-to-medium timeframe, these groups will be the most dangerous threat and sooner or later they�ll be coming to your hideout. I don�t care how many rounds of ammo you�re carrying on the way or how much you�ve got stashed if you actually make it to your refuge. No matter how much you�ve got it won�t be enough, especially if you get in a firefight with a group that�s shooting back with high caliber, armor-piercing ordnance. And let�s not forget about the really heavy stuff � RPGs or plain old dynamite that they�ll find along the way. If you look like you�ve got equipment and food, you�re going to be a target, simple as that. JWR is right � the safest strategy is to move away now and get established long before the crisis hits, preferably far enough away that it�s just too difficult for city hordes to get to you. (A tip of my hat to Frank B � 15 miles from the nearest asphalt road.) You�ll still be in danger from unprepared locals and groups that do make it out to the frontier but the farther away and better prepared the better. Meanwhile, what about the millions of us who can�t relocated and are stuck in the cities? After 30 years of survival thinking related to earthquake preparedness I determined that the only effective strategy is to stay put and lay low. Don�t fire up your generator, blast your radio, and light up your house will the oil lamps you so carefully stashed for just the very event. In fact, leave all your survival equipment stashed for a couple of days until the first big wave of refugees passes by. Camouflage your place and your family to look like you�re destitute � that you have nothing, just like everyone else. With a bit of luck, the hordes will pass you by and you can then join up with neighbors, pool your equipment and resources, and develop a defense strategy. Meanwhile, whatever governmental resources exist will be directed at the cities first so there�s a likelihood that some form of law enforcement will be imposed. It�s the rural areas that will be the most lawless and there won�t be anybody out there to help enforce the peace, at least not for a very long time. Once the peace is secured in your city you can implement your long-term strategies of off-grid living, food production, bartering, and practical skills - machinery repair, welding, auto and home maintenance - that will always be in demand. One final thought � as mentioned so often on the site, survival skills have a very steep learning curve and there is no substitute for hands-on experience and training. Read the books but then go practice! Can you find, set up, and operate your equipment in the pitch dark at 3 AM? If you�ve had a beer of two? Can your spouse, if you�re hurt? Can your kids if you�re not home? Have you ever eaten freeze-dried food? Can you take down and repair the Coleman stove? Bake biscuits? Operate a chain saw? Jury-rig a DC power cable from the car battery to your living space? Successful preparedness means that you continually ask � and answer � such questions. - Patrick C. in Southern California James, I think using an aircraft as a bug-out vehicle would not be a good idea. If you look back at the emergency following the September 11, 2001 attack on the United States, you'll remember that all planes were grounded. I a 9-11 situation a small aircraft flying low or even flying at all would attract unwanted attention. Probably in a bug-out situation in a aircraft you would have to leave early before things got hot and and you risk being forced down in a strange location or being shot down. Both not good options. On 9-11-2001 my wife and I were scheduled to fly home on a commercial airline at 13:30 from half way across the country. Needless to say we found we were grounded before we finished breakfast. When I heard the news we headed to the nearest electronic teller and withdrew as much cash as was allowed. Since we were traveling by air we were traveling light and had little survival gear and virtually no weapons. First we checked the trains and found they were all stopped, same for busses. I next zipped over to the local truck rental and reserved a rental truck for a one-way trip home with a credit card. After the truck reservation was secured I went to a local car dealer and secured financing for the purchase of a late model used SUV and put a small deposit down for them to hold the vehicle. Had I had my own plane I may very well have considered hedge hopping home and would more than likely not been allowed to refuel reroute and maybe risked being arrested if I did manage to land of my own accord. Because of the help afforded us as total strangers stranded in a strange town, far from home, we moved to the area the following year and have lived here on our small farm at the end of the gravel road ever since. - P.B. Jim, I knew my letter regarding escape in a light plane would end up attracting the criticism of one or more experts on the subject... I'd like to address Larry in Pennsylvania's response. First I'd like to point out that I never suggested using a Cessna 172 for anything. I merely mentioned that my father-in-law recently purchased one and that's what got me thinking about it. There are any number of light planes available, from ultralights to Cessna Caravans, and some are better suited to the task than others, depending on how far you need to go. I, for example, have friends who own a 450 acre ranch 250 miles from here. I could easily make it to their ranch in virtually any airplane without having to refuel. I addressed some of Larry's points in my original letter. Yes, fuel is an issue, that's why I mentioned it. I think Larry might have misunderstood what I was saying. I was not suggesting putting autogas into any random airplane. There are a ton of light planes that have been STCed (Supplemental Type Certificate qualified) for autogas and many more with the same engines that could burn autogas but whose owners haven't asked for an STC. In a 1998 letter to the Experimental Aircraft Association (of which I'm a member), the FAA said "Autogas use has been extensively compared, tested, and analyzed. Autogas has been shown to be an acceptable alternative to avgas for the airplanes and engines approved for such use. Airplanes and engines approved for autogas use have met the FAA certification requirements for engine detonation, engine cooling, fuel flow, hot fuel testing, fuel system compatibility, vapor lock, and performance." More information and a copy of the letter above can be found at AviationFuel.org. What I suggested and what I'm suggesting now is research. Know ahead of time what your airplane can burn and either have it on hand or have solid plans for how to obtain it. I also addressed Larry's concerns about overloading so I won't rehash that here other than to say again that yes, payload is an issue but it can be planned out ahead of time. I thought I was very clear that leaving by airplane was for those who had pre-positioned supplies [at a retreat]. As for obstructed runways or runways cluttered by looting, etc., I seriously doubt it in any realistic situation that would require emergency evac by air. Here is a perfectly realistic situation: Terrorists bomb the nuclear power plant that sits 150 miles upwind of my (very large) city. A fallout cloud is approaching at 15 miles per hour. The authorities screw around for four hours and then declare an evacuation of the entire city. We've got at most six hours to evacuate a huge city and its suburbs - a feat that the Gulf Coast cities can't pull off in two days! Interstates immediately become parking lots and before long are totally stopped by broken down cars. A mere fraction (5%) of the population decides to take state highways and county roads - that's 315,000 people - and the same thing happens to those roads. Whatcha gonna do? In this scenario, do you think looters are really going to head for the airports to steal gas and oil? I doubt it would even occur to them, especially in the hours immediately after a disaster. They'll be in Best Buy and Wal-Mart stealing televisions and beer - we've already seen it happen! My airplane suggestion was laced with caveats and the weather was certainly one of them. During many parts of the year, large parts of the country enjoy nice weather with only isolated storms. You don't need forecasts and radar to avoid bad weather. God gave you eyes and the ability to make a 180-degree turn. Pilots did it for years before these services were widely available. Further, except over congested areas, there are few places where you'll have no options for an off-field landing. Have plans 'B' and 'C' constantly in your mind. When I was flying my solo cross-countries, there was never a moment when I hadn't identified somewhere I could land if the engine quit 'right now' - my instructor beat that into my head constantly. As Larry points out, an off-field landing could invite looters but remember, the emergency is only hours old and people aren't hungry yet, and probably aren't desperate enough that the normally law-abiding become a danger. As for Navaids such as VOR, ADF, and even GPS... Ever heard of a chart, a pencil, a stopwatch and a compass? It ain't rocket science. If the weather is good you don't need any outside help to get from A to B. Again. pilots did it for years before these were available - and for many years after, since many couldn't afford to equip their aircraft with fancy gadgets and nav radios. Finally, once again I'll say this is a very unlikely scenario. If it happens it depends on having good weather and solid pre-planning, at least to the extent possible. The wisest course in my hypothetical situation above would be to bug out by car at the first hint of a problem - before the full extent of the problem was revealed to the masses. But if for some reason the news was delayed or something (car problems, missing family member) delayed your departure for even a few hours, leaving by car would be impossible. At that point my "Plan B" starts looking better than radiation sickness, despite some well-identified problems and risks. It's all about options. I think keeping options open is important. - Matt R. JWR, An important note to remember if one plans to use an aircraft during some type of emergency is that the control of the National Airspace System may have been handed over to the military. If that is the case, and I think it would be as the government attempted to maintain control of things as the cascade of events progressed into TEOTWAWKI, something called SCATANA (Security Control of Air Traffic and Air Navigation Aids) could be implemented. This plan closes down all aircraft operations save a few fixed wing fighter interceptors under the direct control of the National Command Authority. Here�s the bottom line. Under SCATANA if you fly, without positive control from the right folks, you die. No warning, no identification passes. An example of how serious the blanket authority is enforced is illustrated by the instructions given to a USAF C-130 on 9-11-01. This aircraft, full of soldiers from one of America�s front line Divisions was over the Great Plains on an exercise. They were ordered to land at a small municipal airport immediately. These soldiers, and they weren�t just Privates, ended up renting a bus for the day long ride back to their unit. Agree desperate times may call for desperate measures but ensure you have adequate information to make the decisions. As always, planning is the key ingredient for success. Using an airplane is a possible Get Out of Dodge solution, especially if used early on in the event. Just know all the second and third order effects. Keep up the good work. Excellent site - Redcatcher21

GOLD DUCK | 06-22-2009 12:03 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... QWAK,TA, The GOLDEN RULE is A bit diferent actualy. :wink::shine: ""Do unto others as they have done unto you" :452: "Do unto others as YOU would have DONE unto YOU":yes: :shine: In this case it REALY does make a HUGE DIFFERENCE as it creates a POSITIVE spin on the projected FUTURE!:yes::shine: The way YOU stated the ruel, IT creates a NEGITIVE long term effect on ones future as BAD KARMA acumulates and eventualy must be REPAYED by YOUR experiencing the NEGITIVE rather than POSITIVE effects of your choices and actions some time in the FUTURE! :36_3_13::shine: the DUCK :15_1_70v:

GOLD DUCK | 06-22-2009 05:49 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... QWAK,Somthing that I have actualy done that could posably be of some help:10_1_19: IF one finds them self in a situation ware they are being chased by people wanting to do them harm -- is to put out a THICK SMOKE SCREEN -- it will shurely slow them down!:yes::wink: I drilled an 1/8" hole in the exhaust manafold of an old truck then SILVER soldered in an 1/8" piece of copper tubing hooked to a scrap windshield washer tank and pump.:s1: Mount the tank in any convenient place and fill with 10w motor oil and a togle switch to turn on the pump, inside the truck cab!:thinkey: Makes more smoke than a blown engin but no actual harm -- that was befor catalitic converters so could (probably would) effect efficiency!:yes::111::4_1_72: I shut down 4 lanes of traffic on the Congress express way in Chicago one evening for a short time TESTING if it worked ---- IT DID!:yes::yes::111::4_1_72: the DUCK :15_1_70v:

Horn | 06-26-2009 10:21 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Your creativity knows no boundaries, Duck. You oughta put that rig in something faster though. You Tube
You Tube

GOLD DUCK | 06-26-2009 10:36 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn (Post 1787438) Your creativity knows no boundaries, Duck. You oughta put that rig in something faster though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vONgc3FAQfU
QWAK,Horn,Being CLEVER is much better than being FAST:yes: It is WHY humans have SURVIVED:yes: We all get old and all slow down :yes: but a SHARP MIND is a TOOL that can make all other TOOLS and ABILITIES less important!:wink::yes::shine: Most people are not FAST -- they are only "HALF ASSED" and that eventualy catches up with them and it HURTS when it DOES!:yes::s10::111::4_1_72: the DUCK (not a spelling earror but one of my Dads old jokes):36_3_13:

chucky | 06-29-2009 12:42 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... I think that in a true all-out SHTF scenario that the authorities would declare martial law before too long and set up roadblocks at all strategic locations. The good news is that we're beyond the I-80/I-55 interchange and that most of those hungry, desperate people won't get past that point. The bad news is that we're on the other side of the "barrier" - and as the one poster pointed out - it will probably be more like the wild west out here. It never fails to amaze me when I bring up TEOTWAWKIT with the fellas at work, family members, or just people in general that I meet: everyone seems to have this notion of "getting on I-80 and heading west." West, where? And then what? They'll get as far as one tank of gas, or until their car overheats in the traffic jam and quits, and then what? Live off of twigs and berries by the side of the road? I look at most of the guys at work - they eat almost non-stop. They'll eat a snack while waiting to punch in, they'll eat another after they get into their trucks and get in line to load, again on the way to the job, at the job, on the way back from the job, back at the plant, etc., etc. all day long. I could not seriously see these guys go a few hours, let alone a few days without so much as a snack. Oh, yes, no beer, no TV, no A/C, no heat in winter, no shower every day? Nyet! And I don't think these guys are a whole lot different from the rest of the general population. Both of my parents grew up in the Great Depression. I remember many times my mother telling me that they went for days at a time without so much as a scrap of food in the house; and when there was, all that there was to eat was a ketchup sandwich. And sometimes, there was no ketchup neither.

bcvojak | 06-30-2009 02:06 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1767016) [B]Escape From (Fill in Your City Here), 2009, by Bill in Chicagoland Let’s review my bug-out plan. Wait a second, I have no plan! This blinding flash of the obvious hit me as I was stuck in rush-hour traffic last Friday evening on my way to my son’s. It took me nearly three hours to get from my apartment on the far north side of the city to I-80 on the far south side. This was the route I assumed I would take to skedaddle.
Never go through a city. Go out and around. Keep extra fuel at home for your vehicle. In your case, take I-90 OR I-88 out from the city, and then head down on 72/47 OR 34. Maybe even avoiding the interstate completely. Once your on the interstate, there is no getting off. If your on it, stay in the right hand lane if possible so you can use the shoulder as an escape route, and have access to all the exits. Have some alternates planned. Keep a good map in the truck and don't rely on a GPS. It may not be working when TSHTF. I was born in Chicago and lived there for 24 years, then got out and never went back. Now I live in hickville WA. I have to commute 18 miles each way into "the city" (Vancouver). But once I'm home, I'll already be at my primary bug out location. If that goes to S***, then plan II is to grab our camper and head to our camping property (1/3 acre with a river) that is 2.5 hours away. - Bill -

bcvojak | 06-30-2009 02:21 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentsum (Post 1776088) I don't think bugging out will be practical unless you have some place you can bug out to.
There is a name for people who bug out, without someplace to go. . . They're called refugees. . . That is NOT a good situation to be in.

Twisted Avatar | 06-30-2009 02:29 PM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by bcvojak (Post 1794213) There is a name for people who bug out, without someplace to go. . . They're called refugees. . . That is NOT a good situation to be in.
Oh dont be so glum.........They will sending out post cards to friends and family.

Twisted Avatar | 07-07-2009 08:15 AM
Re: Escape From (Fill in Your City Here) 2009......... Escape From (Fill in Your City Here), 2009 Dear James Regarding Matt R.'s letter, I have been a survivalist and self-sufficient minded person most of my adult life. I live at my retreat in a prime western state. I have been reading your site for the last 18 months. I have learned some new useful information (never too late to teach old dog new tricks) from your site. I have also purchased quite a few supplies from your advertisers. For most scenarios my home/retreat is a perfect place to be if the SHTF and I can just stay home. However I do not like to have all my eggs in one basket. I have three very different SHTF plans. One of my contingency plans is to get out of Dodge using aircraft. I keep a Cessna 206 in my back yard. My back up location is remote and has a place to land the plane. I was surprised by the pilot [in the subsequenty-posted letter] who so negatively responded of the use of aircraft as a get out of Dodge mode of transportation and strongly disagree with a lot of what he said. I made my living for the last 30 years as a bush pilot, flying everything from Piper Super Cubs to DC-6s. I have flown over 12,500 hours as Pilot in command operating in the USA, Canada and Africa. Cessna 172 Aircraft as a G.O.O.D. Vehicle A 172 would not be my first choice in a plane to get out of dodge but the C-172 could carry the pilot along with one passenger and 300 pounds of gear nonstop for 400 miles. For some scenarios a C-172 or similar aircraft could be a life saver. [JWR Adds: I agree. It would be great if every pilot that reads SurvivalBlog owned a Pilatus Porter, but alas, we live in the real world, where budgets demand compromises. OBTW, one fairly inexpensive upgrade is having a spare set of extra large "Tundra" tires. These will greatly expand the improvised airfield possibilities of many high-wingers..] I would not rely on any one plan to work if SHTF but for 1 of 3 contingency plans a small aircraft could be just the ticket. During a local disaster or to get to your well stocked retreat a C-172 or similar plane could save the day and be the best transportation option. A 172 will land very short, a lot shorter than it can take off. In a worst case scenario for one trip to get to your retreat the pilot may not care if the plane ever takes off again. I have landed and taken off on thousands of beaches, roads, gravel bars, ridge tops and every other unimproved surface that you can think of. There are a few books, videos and specialized classes for bush flying that a pilot can learn from but it takes years to become proficient in off field bush flying. But even the average pilot has many options to land off airport. Just be honest with yourself and fly within your ability. The biggest hint I can give any pilot for off airport landings is check out the landing sites from the ground before attempting a landing. Fly over your retreat and look for possible landing sites, then land at the closest airport drive/walk to the prospective landing site, check the approach, escape routes etc. before you ever attempt to make a landing. If you are not 100% positive you can safely land do not attempt it and go find another spot. It would be better to walk an extra 10 miles to your retreat than be � mile from your retreat with a broken leg! Auto Fuel in Aircraft Auto fuel will work fine in any piston aircraft and most turbine powered aircraft for a limited time. Many Piston aircraft including 172s can legally use Auto fuel for private use. There are three issues with using auto fuel in piston aircraft. First you need to make sure the auto fuel is clean and free from all water and particles. This is easy to do, just buy a MR Funnel (around $50) that has the micro screen filter in it and run the fuel throw it. If you have any concern let the fuel settle for � hour then run it through the filter a second time. The second issue in using auto fuel is the engine life over the long term. Auto fuel will/may reduce the engine life of piston aircraft engines. How much will the life of the engine be reduced is hotly debated among experts. 0% -50% reduction in the life of the engine is the range the different experts claim. Piston aircraft engines are designed to go 1,400 to 2,000 hours between overhauls so even losing 50% of the engines remaining life should not affect a plane in a SHTF situation where you have to get out of Dodge. The third issue is auto gas with ethanol is hard on aircraft hoses and gaskets and seals and will reduce the life of a bladder type fuel tanks. Again this is a long term affect and for a few flights and should not affect the safety of a flight. But if you let auto fuel with ethanol stay in the aircraft system it could cause big problems in certain aircraft. To be legal the use of Auto Fuel in any aircraft the specific plane must have been approved for auto fuel and you must follow the STC. In a true emergency a few fights using clean auto fuel in a aircraft will have no affect. In many Third World countries that I have worked Avgas was not always available so we would occasionally be forced to run a tank or two of auto gas in our piston aircraft.. If you are using auto fuel in a plane that has 8.5-1 compression pistons keep the mixture a little rich and run the max power setting 5% below normal and you will be fine. I operated DHC-2 Beavers and Piper PA-18 Super Cubs a on a steady diet of auto gas for years. The Piper Super Cub uses the same engine as most 172s. On one occasion I have even used auto fuel in a Twin Otter with PT-6 turbine engines. Navigation If the plan is to use a plane to get out of dodge the biggest problem pilots may face is navigation. These days most pilots rely on nav aids and never practice using only a chart (map), compass and stop watch. In the last 15 years I have not checked out one single commercial pilot or flight instructor that could use a map and compass well enough to pass my company’s standards. If you plan to use a plane in a SHTF situation be prepared for all navigation aids including GPS to be off line. I suggest using a Map and compass and practice that a lot. In a SHTF situation if you count on nav aids you are very foolish. Most pilots that have learned to fly in the last 20 years are not able to navigate worth a hoot using only a Map and compass and are way too dependant on nav aids. I suggest anyone planning to use a plane in a SHTF situation pre fly the route as often as possible while times are good. Take a chart and highlight the whole route. Make notes as to what the actual compass heading is that you need to stay on course. Have a check point every 5 miles and learn to recognize them. Have the average time it takes between check points written on the chart. Fly this route at both altitude and low level as the check points will look totally different. Practice your route without nav aids so you get use to using the compass and stopwatch. Avoiding Small Arms Fire As for getting shot out of the air by small arms fire that is unlikely. The part of the world I now work our planes get shot at a lot by small arms fire. It is rare that a plane ever gets hit. If you are 5000’ above the ground small arms fire will not hit you. The danger is the climb out and the descent. A very steep spiral or figure 8 descent will drastically reduce your chances of getting hit. A power off setting during a descent is very quiet and will not attract attention from very far. It can be hard on the cylinders because of shock cooling but in a SHTF situation do you really care. The most vulnerable time to get hit by small arms fire is takeoff and climb out. The trick here is to wait for a clear night and perfect VFR conditions. Take off early morning just before first light so you will be at altitude just as it is getting light. People with small arms cannot hit what they cannot see so if it is a SHTF situation remember to leave all the aircraft lights off. Another technique that can be used is to stay as close to the ground as possible ([as little as] 25 feet AGL) [in flat country] for the flight. This limits exposure and does not give people on the ground much time to react, locate and fire at you. Using the low flying method you must never fly near the same route twice as the second time you fly that route people on the ground will recognize the sound know a plane is coming and will be ready. A second low level run is far more likely to get you shot. I do not recommend this for most pilots and do not attempt the low level flying unless you have been trained for low level operations. James, Please Keep Up The Good Work! You are providing a fantastic service and giving a tremendous amount of good sound advice. - Old Dog http://www.survivalblog.com/

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