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Aquaponics08 | 08-18-2009 02:07 AM
New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) This is supposedly a new technology deep storage battery that would go well with solar generators. Very long article: New battery could change world, one house at a time Randy Wright - Daily Herald April 4, 2009 http://www.heraldextra.com/news/arti...cc4c002e0.html http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townn..._dc=1245428767 ASHLEY FRANSCELL/Daily Herald Ceramatec President Ashok V. Joshi and his team John Gordon (from left to right), John Watkins, Grover Coors and Anthony Nickens at Ceramatec in Salt Lake City. The team has been working on developing a storage battery for homes and businesses. Photo taken at Ceramatec in Salt Lake City. In a modest building on the west side of Salt Lake City, a team of specialists in advanced materials and electrochemistry has produced what could be the single most important breakthrough for clean, alternative energy since Socrates first noted solar heating 2,400 years ago. The prize is the culmination of 10 years of research and testing -- a new generation of deep-storage battery that's small enough, and safe enough, to sit in your basement and power your home. It promises to nudge the world to a paradigm shift as big as the switch from centralized mainframe computers in the 1980s to personal laptops. But this time the mainframe is America's antiquated electrical grid; and the switch is to personal power stations in millions of individual homes. Former energy secretary Bill Richardson once disparaged the U.S. electrical grid as "third world," and he was painfully close to the mark. It's an inefficient, aging relic of a century-old approach to energy and a weak link in national security in an age of terrorism. Taking a load off the grid through electricity production and storage at home would extend the life of the system and avoid the expenditure of tens, or even hundreds, of billions to make it "smart." The battery breakthrough comes from a Salt Lake company called Ceramatec, the R&D arm of CoorsTek, a world leader in advanced materials and electrochemical devices. It promises to reduce dependence on the dinosaur by hooking up with the latest generation of personalized power plants that draw from the sun. Solar energy has been around, of course, but it's been prohibitively expensive. Now the cost is tumbling, driven by new thin-film chemistry and manufacturing techniques. Leaders in the field include companies like Arizona-based First Solar, which can paint solar cells onto glass; and Konarka, an upstart that purchased a defunct Polaroid film factory in New Bedford, Mass., and now plans to print cells onto rolls of flexible plastic.................... http://www.heraldextra.com/news/arti...cc4c002e0.html

MrTiKi | 08-18-2009 10:31 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Whats good for the Masses never passes. I've been hearing about these people for a couple of years http://www.nanosolar.com/products.htm The "cheapest solar panels in the world" but they only sell to.......electricity providers go figure. So the electrical companies buy cheap panels and sell us electricity instead of allowing the public to purchase them directly.

Ragnarok | 08-18-2009 10:38 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) "Inside Ceramatec's wonder battery is a chunk of solid sodium metal mated to a sulphur compound by an extraordinary, paper-thin ceramic membrane. The membrane conducts ions -- electrically charged particles -- back and forth to generate a current. The company calculates that the battery will cram 20 to 40 kilowatt hours of energy into a package about the size of a refrigerator, and operate below 90 degrees C. This may not startle you, but it should. It's amazing. The most energy-dense batteries available today are huge bottles of super-hot molten sodium, swirling around at 600 degrees or so. At that temperature the material is highly conductive of electricity but it's both toxic and corrosive. You wouldn't want your kids around one of these. The essence of Ceramatec's breakthrough is that high energy density (a lot of juice) can be achieved safely at normal temperatures and with solid components, not hot liquid. Ceramatec says its new generation of battery would deliver a continuous flow of 5 kilowatts of electricity over four hours, with 3,650 daily discharge/recharge cycles over 10 years. With the batteries expected to sell in the neighborhood of $2,000, that translates to less than 3 cents per kilowatt hour over the battery's life. Conventional power from the grid typically costs in the neighborhood of 8 cents per kilowatt hour. Re-read that last paragraph and let the information really sink in. Five kilowatts over four hours -- how much is that? Imagine your trash compactor, food processor, vacuum cleaner, stereo, sewing machine, one surface unit of an electric range and thirty-three 60-watt light bulbs all running nonstop for four hours each day before the house battery runs out. That's a pretty exciting place to live. And then you recharge. With a projected 3,650 discharge/recharge cycles -- one per day for a decade -- you leave the next-best battery in the dust. Deep-cycling lead/acid batteries like the ones used in RVs are only good for a few hundred cycles, so they're kaput in a year or so." I say COOL! Get them puppies on the market! It's about time battery technology caught up with the rest... Just remember, if you have a fire involving those batteries, do NOT use water to put it out!:36_1_25: R.

Tn...Andy | 08-18-2009 11:00 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Like most of the miracle technology you read about, I'll believe it when it's listed in stock and available for delivery at some store somewhere. Seems to be a huge black hole somewhere between press releases and store shelves that sucks all this kind of thing in, never to be seen again.

Professur | 08-18-2009 11:12 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) It's those Unobtainium shipping crates they use.

Lucky225 | 08-18-2009 02:55 PM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Unobtainium :4_1_72:

mtnman | 08-19-2009 10:40 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1873983) Like most of the miracle technology you read about, I'll believe it when it's listed in stock and available for delivery at some store somewhere. Seems to be a huge black hole somewhere between press releases and store shelves that sucks all this kind of thing in, never to be seen again.
Can you say "Oil Companies"...I knew you could.

cuauhtemoc | 08-31-2009 05:55 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Yes the oil companies will buy the company and its patents and only sell in LARGE battery formats that only big business and military could use. Do a quick search on google.com/patents/ and you will find many energy devices that all have been bought or squashed from the public.

<SLV> | 08-31-2009 08:26 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Sign me up! I'd drop $2k on one of those in a heartbeat. Then I'd lose the propane and put in an electric WH and oven/range.

Bx3 | 08-31-2009 10:55 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTiKi (Post 1873938) Whats good for the Masses never passes. I've been hearing about these people for a couple of years http://www.nanosolar.com/products.htm The "cheapest solar panels in the world" but they only sell to.......electricity providers go figure. So the electrical companies buy cheap panels and sell us electricity instead of allowing the public to purchase them directly.
Agreed, until/unless these technologies become widely available/affordable, you might as well be watching Star Wars in 1977. The Nano Solar product combined with this battery plus the new wind turbine from Honeywell are enough to make one drool at the possibilities however. http://www.earthtronics.com/honeywell.aspx

S_Goldberg | 08-31-2009 01:58 PM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) R&D takes time. It is also costly. That means that it may be years before something is market ready. Even though it may already exist and be written about, prototyping and mass production are two very different things. BTW, that honeywell turbine is snake oil. The efficiencies claimed violate the laws of physics. Sorry, but it simply isn't possible to extract as much energy from the wind as they are claiming. You are better off with a small 1-2kW from southwest wind or similar company. Don't waste your money on this garbage. I promise you WILL be disappointed, Betz' Limit doesn't lie.

SilverSatan | 08-31-2009 07:10 PM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) why not just use a nickel-iron battery? been around 100 years. they never wear out

7th trump | 08-31-2009 11:38 PM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSatan (Post 1896474) why not just use a nickel-iron battery? been around 100 years. they never wear out
Thought of that very same battery when I clicked on this thread. Takes a long time to charge and a long time to discharge and they last forever with both metals in your pocket.

MrTiKi | 09-01-2009 12:08 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Quote:
Originally Posted by Bx3 (Post 1895772) Agreed, until/unless these technologies become widely available/affordable, you might as well be watching Star Wars in 1977. The Nano Solar product combined with this battery plus the new wind turbine from Honeywell are enough to make one drool at the possibilities however. http://www.earthtronics.com/honeywell.aspx
Now that would be true independence.

bjgnome | 01-25-2010 09:06 PM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Ran across this story elsewhere... pretty quiet recently on this project, but they are looking at "market testing" a year from now. The amount of R&D going on in alt energy is going to result in some game-changing breakthroughs in the near future. The wave is too big and wide for oil to kill it now. Quote:
Ceramatec Develops 24-hour Solar Energy Storage Battery Friday, August 07, 2009 at 1:30:04 PM - by Nate Lew Salt Lake City-based Cerametec, Inc. is in development of a battery that solar energy users outside the grid could use to store energy from their solar panels for most of a day, and its size and configuration � almost fitting in the palm of a hand, without lead and sulfur � promises safer, more manageable energy storage. The battery runs on a sodium-sulfur mix, which is reportedly more energy intensive than typical lead-acid batteries, and has a 92-percent charge/discharge rating, allowing grid-tied solar energy users to store energy from their solar panels during off-peak hours (typically midnight to 7 a.m.) and use them when kilowatt-hour electricity costs soar during the day. It would potentially allow non-solar users to do the same, providing the batteries don�t catch on to the extent that their use tips the on-peak/off-peak paradigm and draws the wrath of utility companies nationwide, most of whom have carefully calculated peak loads with plant operations. Ceramatec has also reportedly found a way to make the battery run at less than 200 degrees Fahrenheit, thanks to a ceramic membrane between the sodium and sulfur which inhibits positive sodium ions, leaving the electrons to create a high-energy current. Of course, the sodium compound is corrosive, so it�s probably not something you would give your kids. The batteries, which can be ramped to store up to 20 kilowatt-hours of electricity and are attached to a disk, will be ready for market testing in 2011, and will sell for about $2,000. The size alone is a radical departure from the 12-volt, deep-cycle (RV, marine and golf cart) batteries currently on sale for alternative energy storage, which measure about 25 inches by 40 inches (and roughly 10 inches deep), weigh 50 pounds, and cost about $2,500. At 20 kilowatt hours � most of an average household�s electricity use per day � they look very promising. American households typically use about 33 kilowatt hours a day, or 1,000 kilowatt hours a month, so the battery�s storage capacity could easily take an energy-conscious household through a typical day, with some caveats (no dishwasher or combined TV/computer operations, for example). Off-grid households relying on alternative energies like solar typically use deep-cycle batteries, wired in tandem, to store energy for periods when the sun doesn�t shine. This gives them a distinct advantage over the grid-tied, who either have to wait out a power failure or rent a generator. Batteries also help loads to run at a constant voltage, while still allowing solar panels or wind turbines to charge as much as possible. On the negative side, existing deep-cycle batteries are large, full of lethal components like lead and sulfuric acid, heavy, and require regular maintenance. They are also the first part of a solar electric system to wear out. Newer models, adapted to alternative energy storage, may have a useful lifetime of up to 20 years, and offer 2,100 cycles (complete discharge to recharge), or 4,000 cycles to half-capacity, but they are still large, heavy and dangerous, and may not last as long as the solar panels they serve. In fact, battery failure is often the largest contributing factor in a solar array�s failure to deliver according to its rated capacity. If Ceramatec�s battery delivers as promised, it would be an ideal, and less cumbersome, solution to solar energy storage, though most users will likely want a lifetime rating (beyond the 92-percent charge/discharge tag) when asked to fork over two grand.

Unclad Lad | 01-26-2010 01:16 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Interesting to see who owns Ceramatec, though: Coors. Conspiracists, start your engines!

<SLV> | 01-26-2010 08:52 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 2146779) Interesting to see who owns Ceramatec, though: Coors. Conspiracists, start your engines!
Three hundred days of sunshine every year in Colorado. It doesn't surprise me that Peter Coors would be interested in this technology. The bad news is that he was a US Senator. Senators never have the best interest of the citizen in mind.

Shoota | 01-26-2010 09:08 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Like someone else just said, I'll believe it when its on store shelves.

teedub31 | 01-26-2010 11:40 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 1874007) It's those Unobtainium shipping crates they use.
I was curious if the use of this rare metal was an original idea, or did you steal it from Avatar???

jaybone | 01-26-2010 02:14 PM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2147017) Senators never have the best interest of the citizen in mind.
Have you ever jumbled up the letters in 'Senator'? It makes an APT anagram. $2K for that much juice is a wonderful price point. I have about that much in lead acid batteries holding nowhere near that much.

Unclad Lad | 01-26-2010 06:20 PM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Quote:
I was curious if the use of this rare metal was an original idea, or did you steal it from Avatar???
Avatar stole it too--it's been around for years.

coopersmith | 01-26-2010 06:50 PM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 2147017) Three hundred days of sunshine every year in Colorado. It doesn't surprise me that Peter Coors would be interested in this technology. The bad news is that he was a US Senator. Senators never have the best interest of the citizen in mind.
Pete Coors was never a senator, he was beaten by Ken Salazar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Coors

wallew | 01-27-2010 02:51 PM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 1896050) R&D takes time. It is also costly. That means that it may be years before something is market ready. Even though it may already exist and be written about, prototyping and mass production are two very different things.
SG has it correct. I've been watching a company that makes fuel cells for homes and business for more than ten years. I'm not sure IF they are listed on ANY stock exchange. They have gone through many interations, have had several problems with manufacturing certain parts OR having substandard parts manufactured by someone else, so it IS an up and down type of process. One of their prototypes was tested at a Denver fire station for a year or two. I never figured out if it's still there or after the test it was removed. BUT, it performed above the Denver FD's expectations. NOW, this company has gone from 'Idacorp' to 'Idatech'. Or, perhaps the more legally correct way was that Idacorp birthed the subsidary Idatech. Idatech is now producing this fuel cell. Here's their linky: http://www.idatech.com/ ONE of these days, this may be another component of our electrical generation system in the home we build to retire to. OH, and FYI, COORS has been a ceramic company for as long as I've been aware of them in Golden, which was over thirty years ago. I've talked to them about a couple of ideas I've had. Until I can get a patent, I refuse to tell anyone. BUT, COORS has been into ceramics longer than hippies. "I CAN BUT DREAM TO LIVE IN PARADISE AS DOES MRS & MR TN_ANDY"

____hoot____ | 01-28-2010 01:04 AM
Re: New Technology Deep Storage Battery (Goes w/Solar) Quote:
Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 1896050) R&D takes time. It is also costly. That means that it may be years before something is market ready. Even though it may already exist and be written about, prototyping and mass production are two very different things. BTW, that honeywell turbine is snake oil. The efficiencies claimed violate the laws of physics. Sorry, but it simply isn't possible to extract as much energy from the wind as they are claiming. You are better off with a small 1-2kW from southwest wind or similar company. Don't waste your money on this garbage. I promise you WILL be disappointed, Betz' Limit doesn't lie.
See that the Honeywell is being sold by Ace Hardware, if it's ""snake oil"" it will very soon be proven so. Moving the magnets to the blade tips sounds like a more efficient way to generate electricity to me, doing without the gearbox mechanical drag. huuuummmmmm selling snake oil was how the Rockerfeller klan got their start wasn't it? Fleets of covered wagons with the twined snakes on their sides selling a opium alcohol mineral oil mix in the early 1800s. Maybe didn't cure anything, but sure killed the customer's pain; and blackenned the Rockerfellers bottom line.

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