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roasted | 03-18-2010 01:42 AM
advice please: propane vs diesel generator I'm trying to purchase a backup generator that'd provide a few necessities when the power goes out. I'm not looking to fill full power needs when there's an outage. Rather, I'd like something that I can use to provide a couple hours of use per day here and there during an extended outage. What's the tradeoff between propane and diesel/gasoline generators?

Victor | 03-18-2010 07:32 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator Propane doesn't go stale/bad. Dual use if you currently heat with it.

TechGuy | 03-18-2010 08:20 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator Diesel has a much higher BTU density than propane. When Ike hit, all the cell towers in the area went offline because there was no propane availability. Most of the cell towers where I live have been switched over to diesel. Diesel can store almost indefinitely if you store it in tightly sealed containers away from sunlight and temperature variations. I store mine in 55 gal drums. That being said, victor is right that propane NEVER goes bad. I am just unsure as its availability when the need arises. I have a list of all the diesel storage areas around me, including gas stations, bus tif TS truly HTF. I know if I can find it, I can find a way to get it home. Propane, not so much, you are pretty much stuck with whatever container you find it in. Container too big, you cant get it home.

TechGuy | 03-18-2010 08:30 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator <table style="width: 831px; height: 124px;" border="1"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td>Motor Gasoline</td> <td>1 gallon = 124,238 Btu</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td>Diesel Fuel</td> <td>1 gallon = 138,690 Btu</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td>Heating Oil</td> <td>1 gallon = 138,690 Btu</td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td>Propane</td> <td>1 gallon = 91,333 Btu </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td>Wood</td> <td>1 cord = 20,000,000 Btu http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/energyexpla...page=about_btu </td></tr></tbody></table>

TechGuy | 03-18-2010 08:31 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator Price wise, around where I live, Propane is 2.70 a gallon delivered. Diesel is 2.50 a gallon you pick it up. When you factor in the BTU difference, the diesel imho is the better deal for power generation.

hoarder | 03-18-2010 08:40 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator Although better, diesel engines are expensive. If you just need intermittant urban backup get a high speed (3600 RPM) gasoline generator. When you finally move to your off grid location get a diesel.

damoc | 03-18-2010 10:09 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator i would go with the propane because i would assume it would also be able to run from methane/natural gas with some light modification

Twisted Avatar | 03-18-2010 11:39 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator I have a crazy question that has been bugging me a bit as of late You cant use a firewood in the house without a way for the carbon monoxide to escape. How come we can cook with gas with no such problems??? I am just having a massive brainfart right now and cant make the connection. Thanks. T

Godot | 03-18-2010 11:51 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator It's not what the OP is looking for, but as a point of interest - Out on the flats, those who are to far out to get access to powerlines use propane for everything- lighting, heat, cooking, refrigeration. Electricity gets little use except for running an electric water pump or insignificant gadgets. Taking this approach, your electrical needs can be met with the smallest of generators or even a small solar or wind system. ... and get this, propane tanks rally freeze, break or require replacement. Electricity is a suckers game.

Godot | 03-18-2010 11:52 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 2232280) I have a crazy question that has been bugging me a bit as of late You cant use a firewood in the house without a way for the carbon monoxide to escape. How come we can cook with gas with no such problems??? I am just having a massive brainfart right now and cant make the connection. Thanks. T
In a closed system, it can still put you to sleep.

Saul Mine | 03-18-2010 11:58 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 2232280) I have a crazy question that has been bugging me a bit as of late You cant use a firewood in the house without a way for the carbon monoxide to escape. How come we can cook with gas with no such problems??? I am just having a massive brainfart right now and cant make the connection. Thanks. T
It's carbon dioxide, not monoxide. And that's not the main problem. The main problem is getting all the smoke outside. Another factor is that cooking uses a lot less fuel than heating. But otherwise you are correct: both consume oxygen and that might be a problem in a small space.

ruprick | 03-18-2010 12:06 PM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 2232280) I have a crazy question that has been bugging me a bit as of late You cant use a firewood in the house without a way for the carbon monoxide to escape. How come we can cook with gas with no such problems??? I am just having a massive brainfart right now and cant make the connection. Thanks. T
Any combustion within a closed building is a problem - regardless of fuel source. Under normal combustion there a a few basic byproducts: Heat, Water, CO2.......when you start to deplete the oxygen level (like in a closed environment ...your home...) there is not enough O to go with the C and you make some CO in place of CO2...... Also - if we use a gasoline engine as an example.....if you run them too "rich"...too much fuel for the air.....you again will not have enough O ....and will produce CO in place of some of the CO2. Just basic chemistry once you think about it. We need adequate ventilation when burning anything....the make-up air brought in for combustion reduces/prevents the CO production....the CO will kill you....the CO2 is not deadly (within reason).....you can get into trouble by simply not having enough oxygen because you used it all up....this is also when you will get CO. This is a big problem when folks use kerosene/LP/laterns, etc in closed spaces...like tents, campers, homes, ice fishing shantys, etc....just open the window a bit for the make-up air to enter. Bottom Line: CO is from combustion without enough Oxygen for the amount of fuel.....too rich = CO = danger. I have an old truck with all the emmisions bypassed....runs super rich....if I just open the garage door for a minute....my garage CO detector will go off....I use this as a periodic test. Science class in now closed!

Twisted Avatar | 03-18-2010 12:07 PM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator Quote:
Originally Posted by Godot (Post 2232298) It's not what the OP is looking for, but as a point of interest - Out on the flats, those who are to far out to get access to powerlines use propane for everything- lighting, heat, cooking, refrigeration. Electricity gets little use except for running an electric water pump or insignificant gadgets. Taking this approach, your electrical needs can be met with the smallest of generators or even a small solar or wind system. ... and get this, propane tanks rally freeze, break or require replacement. Electricity is a suckers game.
When I went upState I would see alot of homes with a huge propane tank sitting a bit aways from the house. I always use to wonder what would happen if they had problems. Now I see they really dont have to worry about them as much I thought. T

Godot | 03-18-2010 12:47 PM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 2232328) When I went upState I would see alot of homes with a huge propane tank sitting a bit aways from the house. I always use to wonder what would happen if they had problems. Now I see they really dont have to worry about them as much I thought. T
On the flats, most guys have 4 or 5 - 25 gallon tanks so that they can easily boat them in and out without using a delivery, which on the flats aint gonna happen without spend a few bucks. Hands down, the truly remote locations best friend, is a propane lighting/heating/cooking/refrigeration system.

Twisted Avatar | 03-18-2010 01:48 PM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator What was the outlay for your system?? How has the maintinece been on it?? T

TechGuy | 03-18-2010 09:26 PM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator Quote:
Originally Posted by Godot (Post 2232298) It's not what the OP is looking for, but as a point of interest - Out on the flats, those who are to far out to get access to powerlines use propane for everything- lighting, heat, cooking, refrigeration. Electricity gets little use except for running an electric water pump or insignificant gadgets. Taking this approach, your electrical needs can be met with the smallest of generators or even a small solar or wind system. ... and get this, propane tanks rally freeze, break or require replacement. Electricity is a suckers game.
Propane can't be beat for cooking, and it is true, it stores forever. We have a 500 gal tank, two 30lb tanks, and two 15lb tanks. We will use our propane for cooking/emergency heat when the time comes. We will use electricity generator up to fuels that we can easily scrounge. Solar comes later.....hopefully.

TTAZZMAN | 03-19-2010 12:18 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator I guess the first question that needs to be answered in requard to the generator is how much $ do you have to spend... in my opinion if your spending less than 5K-10k you shouldnt be considering a Diesel if you have more than 5k+ to spend...then its time to weigh the pros-cons of the fuels Propane.. very clean lasts forever in storage supply is questionable alternate fuel would possibly be Nat gas or gasoline marginally shorter life engines generally less expensive generally more for light ussage Diesel can be dirty can last forever in storage if treated correctly regulations on how diesel can be stored in bulk supply is less questionable than propane alternate fuels could be veg oil..bio diesel etc longer life heavyer duty engines generally more expensive fuel use per watt produced normally less I personally use as my first option back up power a automatic propane package unit for my home but i also have a trailer mounted 100kw diesel unit and smaller portable inverter units so i have the best (i think) of all worlds availible to me

skid | 03-19-2010 12:35 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator Quote:
Originally Posted by roasted (Post 2231827) I'm trying to purchase a backup generator that'd provide a few necessities when the power goes out. I'm not looking to fill full power needs when there's an outage. Rather, I'd like something that I can use to provide a couple hours of use per day here and there during an extended outage. What's the tradeoff between propane and diesel/gasoline generators?
Do you already use propane or natural gas for cooking or heating? If so, that's a no brainer to use propane. Most gas powered generators can be easily modified to run propane or natural gas. I have a 1000 gallon propane tank for (back up) heating and cooking already. It makes sense for me to have a propane fueled generator. Plus I don't have to refuel for a very long time with such a big tank, and propane is a very clean burning fuel that doesn't leave much carbon deposits. With a diesel, you may have to change oil more often as it turns black from carbon very quickly, plus the exhaust smoke stinks. In a SHTF situation, methane can be made like bio diesel. For a limited use generator like you envision, going diesel wouldn't make much sense. I don't have anything against diesels, since I have two myself, but for you propane sounds like the better option.

mightymanx | 03-19-2010 01:33 AM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator I went with diesel you can press sunflower seeds and nuts into fuel that will burn in a diesel engine if you have to. Try to make a alternate fuel for a propane generator if you need to. Woodgas may be your only option.

markt | 03-19-2010 04:36 PM
Re: advice please: propane vs diesel generator Diesel engines are well made, but much more expensive. They also make generators that do both gasoline AND propane. I have one from this vendor. http://cgi.ebay.com/Triple-Fuel-Hond...item5ad80bceeb My brother-in-law is a farmer who complains that nowadays the filters in his diesel tractor have to be changed monthly or they get clogged with algae. That after the country went to low-sulfur diesel the algae problem got exponentially worse. I don't know about it, so I went with the gasoline/propane duo deal. Figured that I could always rig up a solar still to make my own ethanol fuel from fermented sweet potatoes or corn if I had to.

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