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- - stocks, cash and PMs role in this (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=234645)

jaima | 02-11-2008 07:48 AM
stocks, cash and PMs role in this I posted that article last week on PMs for when TSHTF. I am genuinely confused about their role in all this. I know the people here on the prep board probably have a different agenda then some of the investors on the general board. How are people handling cash , PMS and stocks here? How much cash are you keeping on hand? I bought PMs with the intention of holding long term for emergencies and if an emergency never comes I will pass them to my kids. Still if they go outrageously high it might be tempting to cash some in. I am also still invested heavily in the stock market and bonds. Some are mining stocks and my personal choice and I would like to ride those out. My other stocks are spread out worldwide and I am taking a huge beating at the moment. My instincts told me to get out last Oct and I ever went to my Broker. I let him talk me into foreign stocks instead of going cash. :banghead: How are others here handling 401K, mutual funds, cash and PMs?

jaima | 02-11-2008 10:16 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this LT Dan, one serious concern I have is being able to liquidate PMs for cash if its needed. My coin dealer says he will help me but I take that with a grain of salt. My personal thoughts are the dollar is on its way OUT and we will be looking at a new currency in the next 5-10 years. Im wondering if the new currency will be PM based, a revision of the nightmare we have now or even electronic. I think the NWO would love electronic.

Twisted Avatar | 02-11-2008 10:17 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 962645) I posted that article last week on PMs for when TSHTF. I am genuinely confused about their role in all this. I know the people here on the prep board probably have a different agenda then some of the investors on the general board. How are people handling cash , PMS and stocks here? How much cash are you keeping on hand? I bought PMs with the intention of holding long term for emergencies and if an emergency never comes I will pass them to my kids. Still if they go outrageously high it might be tempting to cash some in. I am also still invested heavily in the stock market and bonds. Some are mining stocks and my personal choice and I would like to ride those out. My other stocks are spread out worldwide and I am taking a huge beating at the moment. My instincts told me to get out last Oct and I ever went to my Broker. I let him talk me into foreign stocks instead of going cash. :banghead: How are others here handling 401K, mutual funds, cash and PMs?
REPEAT AFTER ME....WHEN A BROKER RECOMMENDS SOMETHING IT IS FOR THEIR BENEFIT!!! IT IS A SALES PITCH NOT IMPARTIAL FINANCIAL ADVICE!! [/SIZE] REPEAT AFTER ME ...... AFTER I HAVE ALL THE FACTS ON A GIVEN TOPIC 95% THE FEELING I GET IN MY GUT IS THE RIGHT CHOICE.......I WILL NEVER GO AGAINST MY GUT!! EVER!!! Those where 2 VERY EXPENSIVE LESSONS........ I would correct them IMMEDIATELY T

jaima | 02-11-2008 10:25 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this TA, I know, I know, I know. :banghead::banghead: Please understand this is all so new to me. I am like a fish swimming upstream. I went to my Broker with the intention of going part cash when the market rebounded in Oct. My timing and instincts were dead on. How I came out of their invested in a overseas Bric Fund is beyond me. I have kicked myself in the ass many times over. On the other hand I did the fortitude to stand my ground a few years ago and take out 10% for PMs and 10% in mining stock. The look on my Brokers face was priceless. He was actually stuttering sweating and then he turned my account over to his new Partner. . LOL I'm getting there but this is going to be a costly lesson. I had big front end loads on two of these funds.

DogFarm | 02-11-2008 10:33 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 962854) TA, I know, I know, I know. :banghead::banghead: Please understand this is all so new to me. I am like a fish swimming upstream. I went to my Broker with the intention of going part cash when the market rebounded in Oct. My timing and instincts were dead on. How I came out of their invested in a overseas Bric Fund is beyond me. I have kicked myself in the ass many times over. On the other hand I did the fortitude to stand my ground a few years ago and take out 10% for PMs and 10% in mining stock. The look on my Brokers face was priceless. He was actually stuttering sweating and then he turned my account over to his new Partner. . LOL I'm getting there but this is going to be a costly lesson. I had big front end loads on two of these funds.
HEY GANG, THE BROKERAGE SALES PEOPLE ARE AS DESPERATE AS ANY CAR DEALER BUT 100X MORE DANGEROUS. MY LOCAL FERRARI DEALER WOULD LOVE TO SELL ME A USED FERRARI ON A 12 YEAR LOAN (I'D BE BURIED IN IT FROM DAY ONE). DOES HE CARE? NO. MY LOCAL MERRILL LYNCH BROKER WOULD LOVE TO SLAM ME INTO A FUND WITH WHAT LITTLE CASH I HAVE LEFT. HE COLLECTS A COMMISSION AND MOVES ON. THESE PEOPLE AND MANY OTHER "PROFESSIONALS" WILL BECOME EVEN MORE DESPERATE AS THE U.S. HITS THE SKIDS. PEOPLE WILL RATIONALIZ ANYTHING WHEN THEY ARE DESPERATE. WATCH OUT FOR THESE PEOPLE AS THEY ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN THE SHYSTER WHO SELLS FAKE GOLD ON EBAY.

graspAU | 02-11-2008 10:37 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by DogFarm (Post 962872) HEY GANG, THE BROKERAGE SALES PEOPLE ARE AS DESPERATE AS ANY CAR DEALER BUT 100X MORE DANGEROUS. MY LOCAL FERRARI DEALER WOULD LOVE TO SELL ME A USED FERRARI ON A 12 YEAR LOAN (I'D BE BURIED IN IT FROM DAY ONE). DOES HE CARE? NO. MY LOCAL MERRILL LYNCH BROKER WOULD LOVE TO SLAM ME INTO A FUND WITH WHAT LITTLE CASH I HAVE LEFT. HE COLLECTS A COMMISSION AND MOVES ON. THESE PEOPLE AND MANY OTHER "PROFESSIONALS" WILL BECOME EVEN MORE DESPERATE AS THE U.S. HITS THE SKIDS. PEOPLE WILL RATIONALIZ ANYTHING WHEN THEY ARE DESPERATE. WATCH OUT FOR THESE PEOPLE AS THEY ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN THE SHYSTER WHO SELLS FAKE GOLD ON EBAY.
Very wise words. Gold and silver is a great way to transport some of your wealth from a failing system to a new or working system. It has proven itself time and time again in this regard. The tricky part is balancing your needs. How many PMs are enough, and how many other goods to have on hand to get you through the systems turmoil. Some are well off enough to be self sufficient with food, water, and personal defense. My only hope (if it gets bad soon) is to gather enough to hold me through tough times. I have not bought gold or silver in a few months, but I have increased food and water storage over 400%, and purchased new firearms and all the needed goodies that go with them.

Twisted Avatar | 02-11-2008 10:59 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 962854) TA, I know, I know, I know. :banghead::banghead: Please understand this is all so new to me. I am like a fish swimming upstream. I went to my Broker with the intention of going part cash when the market rebounded in Oct. My timing and instincts were dead on. How I came out of their invested in a overseas Bric Fund is beyond me. I have kicked myself in the ass many times over. On the other hand I did the fortitude to stand my ground a few years ago and take out 10% for PMs and 10% in mining stock. The look on my Brokers face was priceless. He was actually stuttering sweating and then he turned my account over to his new Partner. . LOLI'm getting there but this is going to be a costly lesson. I had big front end loads on two of these funds.
I am not trying to snap on you.... my aunt would tell me all the time NONE OF US ARE BORN SMART..... WE ALL HAVE TO LEARN IT AND THAT COMES THROUGH MAKING MISTAKES!! Lord knows I made some VERY bad choices just last year that I am still paying for ( left a job thinking was gonna be a commercial real estate investor spent all my seed money looking for deals and living the same way like if I was working needles to say that didnt pan out:banghead:). Glad you were able to land on your feet though........But another thing.....I would be VERY SCARED TO DEAL WITH BROKERS AT THIS POINT.... there are all sorts of games that can play behind your back and you wont know until you make a call to the office and nobody is picking up the phone... If I am going to play in these markets(gulp!) I would do a personal trading investment account. You own a shotgunn now I would hate to see you use it on one of thse goons because they lied through there fricken teeth that they excuted a trade you told them to do BUT DIDNT.......at least 2 brokerage houses are going to collaspe this year and I would not want to be anywhere near them when they go up in flames... Please be careful....... brokers are REALLY DESPERATE to make a commision and they will dam near DO ANYTHING to keep afloat. Wild times ahead for sure T

Twisted Avatar | 02-11-2008 11:02 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by scottp999 (Post 962874) Very wise words. Gold and silver is a great way to transport some of your wealth from a failing system to a new or working system. It has proven itself time and time again in this regard. The tricky part is balancing your needs. How many PMs are enough, and how many other goods to have on hand to get you through the systems turmoil. Some are well off enough to be self sufficient with food, water, and personal defense. My only hope (if it gets bad soon) is to gather enough to hold me through tough times. I have not bought gold or silver in a few months, but I have increased food and water storage over 400%, and purchased new firearms and all the needed goodies that go with them.
I soooooooo envy you!! Great going!!! at the end of the day.preps are more valuable than PM's lots of people are gonna find that out the hard way for sure. T

graspAU | 02-11-2008 11:22 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this 2 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 962917) I soooooooo envy you!! Great going!!! at the end of the day.preps are more valuable than PM's lots of people are gonna find that out the hard way for sure. T
Thanks. I really do not feel secure. I am in too high a population area. Nothing like NY or DC, but lots of people around. I really wish I had the money, and time to develop a piece of land away from a population center. I think it might be too late to get that up an running, so I am doing the best I can where I am. These are the primary metals you invest in when you buy ammo(copper on the left, lead on the right):

Twisted Avatar | 02-11-2008 11:32 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by scottp999 (Post 962954) Thanks. I really do not feel secure. I am in too high a population area. Nothing like NY or DC, but lots of people around. I really wish I had the money, and time to develop a piece of land away from a population center. I think it might be too late to get that up an running, so I am doing the best I can where I am.
I know the feeling..I live 15 miles outside of the city.....if it goes down....there is no evacuation...I have to make my stand right here.... but dont feel bad. I think we have at least 22 +months before they REALLY BAD stuff starts to happen Buy then POG and POS will be well in to the 4 and 3 digits easy so there will be a good chance to cash in and get some land far away from the hot zones. Bottom line.... The universe helps those who help themselves before it gets out of control I know a way escape will be made for folks like us. T

goldsilverman | 02-11-2008 05:54 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 962909) at least 2 brokerage houses are going to collaspe this year[/COLOR][/B] and I would not want to be anywhere near them when they go up in flames... Please be careful....... brokers are REALLY DESPERATE to make a commision and they will dam near DO ANYTHING to keep afloat. Wild times ahead for sure T
UBS??????????

jaima | 02-11-2008 06:55 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this TA, I can't blame the Broker. I have to take responsibility for my own stupidity. Its not the first time I have been stupid. I tend to be an easy mark when I am out of my element. Handling stocks, PMs, buying weapons and preparing for Armageddon is definitely out of my element and it is mostly because of the kindness of good people giving advice and some honest dealers that I have not make more mistakes. I think I was happier before I took the red pill after 9-11. Not everyone is cut out for this stuff. I took a break today even though I sense time is short and I am not nearly prepared. I bought a new purse and cheered myself up. If it wasn't for my kids I think I would be happy to return to the sheeples.

Sparky | 02-11-2008 09:11 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this No need to panic. You've got some PMs. When the market moves up a little (which it will occasionally), you can move some stocks into cash, or PMs on dips. That will slowly get you out of the way of the train wreck, which I think will take time to fully play out. Don't panic and sell out all your international stocks right now, as those have just suffered major losses and will likely go through volatile upswings and downswings. You have time to transition out of them in periodic chunks. It's okay to trade (and also keep a core position) in PM and energy stocks, and some diversified international. Try to end up with a diversified blend of everything, with a heavier weight on PM stocks, energy, and cash funds, and also be sure to hold some physical PM and actual cash. Just my opinion.

jaima | 02-12-2008 09:14 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Thanks for the encouragement Sparky. As far as the international stocks go it was a miscalculation on my part. I thought we had more time. I thought the stock market had another year of rally and I miscalculated how fast PMs would go up this year. The effect US stocks have had on the world market through me for a loop. I will admit I do have reservations about being too heavily invested in PMs. I can not imagine the Government will not try to get their greedy mitts on them or even outlaw their use for a period of time. I also have concerns about quick liquidation. Where is my crystal ball when I need it.

AMforPM | 02-13-2008 09:18 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this I can tell you what we did, but each has to choose according to their situation. We have no mortgage or car note but we kept a little credit card activity, mostly to keep that avenue open in case of some emergency. We got out of all cash holding areas in institutions like IRAs etc, and all our former stocks, and our 2nd home, and moved most of our 'cash' position to PM. We did that from summer 05 through early 06. The FRN numerical value of the PM has a little more than doubled, so it gained a lot better than any interest offered. We put some into metal and hydrocarbon stocks and ordered certificates to avoid being trapped in a brokerage bankruptcy. Our broker when we started, Brookstreet, went bankrupt. They managed to merge and not be a nightmare, but I was glad I had nothing at risk. The portfolio has more than doubled, and we bought it later in the process than the PM. I don't try to trade in and out. If something changes in a big way with a company I may adjust, but mostly I selected my horses and expect to be patient during the general DOW crash and not fret expecting my resource companies to break away in time. We keep a month or 2 of living expenses in FRNs even though they are melting in case of a bank holiday. We tried to prep for Katrina like conditions for a couple of years. We are still filling some parts of that. And we got seed enough to share. I think gardens are going to be life savers. Some brokers are really good at button pushing to keep you locked in where I think you will be robbed much worse than you already have been, but that is just my opinion. We put the money for the tax bill for getting out of our IRAs in PM and the gains really cut that down to size, plus it was no problem at all to sell. We sold to the dealer we bought from, but IMO as PM goes up selling to individuals (not from home, but maybe flea mkts or coin shows etc) will be easy. Last bull some people bought and sold in the line at coin dealers. :wink: I think it is anybody's guess on how much time you have to escape that brokerage or be trapped for whatever may come. It might be ok, or all that might go to zero if the brokerage goes down. If your brokerage survives, some companies will and you might have them. Some global companies will thrive. Worst case the money left there is gone. The Brookstreet bankruptcy was literally overnight.

TheSimpleton | 02-14-2008 03:21 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this There are many lines here. Why own any metals? Do you know when metals rise? Inflation? Deflation? Nope. It's when there is uncertainty in the paper system. Who in their right mind would bother with heavy, useless objects if they didn't have to? Unfortunately, over 5,000 years of history, every paper system has gone to total fraud between 7-20 years. Every one. So if you own something, how do you protect yourself? All paper is visible, taxable and defaultable. Real estate is nailed down and taxable. Productive goods like factories are nailed down, taxable, AND have no sales in bad times. Shops selling these goods...you get the idea. What would you have in the Russian Revolution? Or Chile under Pinochet? Or the American Civil War? Watch Cold Mountain and tell me. She had a trunk, a steamer trunk full of stocks, bonds...paper. It might be worth something someday, but all she had that day was a chicken and kale and lucky to have that. Gold moves your assets through those times, through currency changes, through wars, through distruction, crossing the ocean with one handbag in 1938, all that. Other than that it can decorate picture frames. Here's point #1 then: paper miners are general stocks. Yes, they should go up, but in 1863, paper mining stocks weren't worth a lot were they? I fancy the metals in hand were worth a sight more. If you're owning metal stocks for protection, then don't throw yourself back in the soup, or at least not knowing the full risk of hanging over the gunwales. #2, gold and silver are not going to make good trade goods. One, they attract attention, which you don't need. Two, no one can make change. Three, half the people won't know what they are even after the troubles. So what good are they? You can leave with them. Borders like them. Police like them. Lawyers and judges like them. Taxmen like them. Doctors like them. Grey traders and organizations like them. They will pay your taxes--somehow--and keep your home. #3 because they are off-grid and don't trade, they are non-taxable. Legally there are no taxes until a sale, unlike businesses, real estate, bonds, and dividend stocks. They can tax everything else into dust but they will rise in price tax-free until the reported sale. A thread on the general board was frustrated with 50-60% payroll taxes. This will get worse, if possible. Inflation can functionally tax standing assets into worthlessness. See Amerman if you don't believe me. If you're following Jim Sinclair he has said to leave all brokerages and get certificates-in-hand. If you're with eTrade, which was the first to falter, you know what I mean. Like 1863, you may eventually get your stocks out of the bankruptcy restructuring. Like 1917 that will not exactly help if you flee, if laws change, or if you need to eat before then. He's adamant that "this is it". If you're following the financial explosion, you've seen it rise an order of magnitude, from the $2T US housing loss, now being estimated at a possible $50T in losses before it's done unwinding. How do you feel about your 401k custodian and insurance annuity being viable before that's done? US GDP is only $13T and world is only $60T. We lost 1/30th of that in Jan alone. Nothing wrong with paper, but you need to know what it is. It's over-risked. There is no other store of value that is not a promise except goods-in-hand. I don't have room enough to store 10,000lb of wheat for the 1860-1864 period, and if I did, it would be confiscated and stolen. You can store value in metals. You can see the paper is not the same. On the cash side, "cash" is the most-tradable medium. Some places it's ciggies, or tea. Time was, it was $ even in Russia and Columbia. If we hit Depression, which is likely, you'll be far away better in "cash" dollars. Printed paper notes, NOT bank accounts. Read FerFal on the "corralito" where banks froze you to $100/mo withdrawls while the Agentine peso value dropped 90%. Cash in hand--even pesos--was king. Of course the "better" cash like Euros was better. Gold was fine and in demand, but it held over-large amounts and using it could put your life at risk. If we have inflation or a bait-and-switch to Ameros, then printed dollars are worthless and will be traded in. Either way gold is eternal. That's the run-down on why to own gold in preps. Bullets will not persuade a judge or the policeman writing the report and eyeing your preps and your daughters. A little color may. There is no safe haven. None. But gold is as good as it gets. Know your tools and how to use them. Get one of each. TS

Squirrel Bait | 02-14-2008 07:32 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 962969) ............. I think we have at least 22 +months before they REALLY BAD stuff starts to happen T
Hey, T How do you come up with the 22+ months. I am curious as I have my own thoughts on timing. SB

Merlin | 02-14-2008 08:12 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this All stocks are not created equal. While I own precious metals and food storage for insurance against hard times and have enough cash hidden around the place to last a couple of months, I own stocks that pay dividends for my day-to-day expenses. Stocks of foreign companies that do not depend on the U.S. for revenues. Stocks that have real assets (coal, zinc, silver, gold mines, water companies, petroleum producers and refiners, grocery store chains, utilities, etc.) Stock that pay me dividends that total around $2500 a month on average. Those are the kind of stocks I want to own. If the prices go up, fine. If the prices go down... well, I'd rather they didn't. But, since I own these shares for the dividends that they pay me and have no desire to sell them anyway, I'll collect my dividends and ride the coaster. Now, my case may be different from yours. I'm retired. And, while I understand what everyone says about gold and silver maintaining wealth, I don't see how I can live off my stash for the next 20 years. That's why the right selection of dividend paying stocks are appropriate for me. Cash positions deteriorate over time. PMs don't pay interest or dividends. We retirees need an income stream to meet day-to-day expenses. So, in addition to the gold and silver, the food and water reserves, the hard currency fund, etc., there is a place in my portfolio for stocks.

Twisted Avatar | 02-14-2008 09:02 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Bait (Post 968589) Hey, T How do you come up with the 22+ months. I am curious as I have my own thoughts on timing. SB
I kinda ballpark it there 22+ or so for a couple of reasons 1 This ball of financial wax is melting but they are working overtime to keep putting lipstick on this pig (no chaos before a election and china still wants yankees at the olmypics so I guess there will be a uneasy cooperation among the big wigs. 2 when the new admin takes over we are going to start to see MAJOR DISLOCATIONS. and by then the "wax will be melting at a break neck pace" but they will be taking drastic measures that will be almost unheard of THEY WILL BE OPENLY CRTICIZED BY THE PUNDITS. 3 By 18 months in the FED will go full blast in to the HYPERIFLATION ( IT is at this point whatevery preps you dont have YOU BE GETTING AT ANY PRICE) also the towns will be failing right and left with the tax burden it is putting on homeowners to make up for the massive defaults IT IS AT THIS POINT I SEE MASSIVE CIVIL UNREST AND THE SHOCKTROOPS BEING CALLED IN TO "KEEP THE PEACE" and multiple nations will start to flee the dollar 4 I also feel there is going to and uptick in bad weather patterns and earth quake activity that TPTB will try to blame on global warm and will try to enforce maxium control working through the UN I feel that will be year 3-4 I know I could be talking most trash.........but I feel stuff in gonna unfold somthing along those lines ....one thing I know for sure THEN NEXT PEZ WILL IMPOSE SO FORM OF MARTIAL LAW BEFORE THEY LEAVE OFFICE AND THAT IS "IF" THEY LEAVE. That is something I willing to stake a roll of eagles on I would like to others breakdown of how events are gonna play out T

lessoil=+pm | 02-14-2008 10:31 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 968688) I kinda ballpark it there 22+ or so for a couple of reasons 1 This ball of financial wax is melting but they are working overtime to keep putting lipstick on this pig (no chaos before a election and china still wants yankees at the olmypics so I guess there will be a uneasy cooperation among the big wigs. 2 when the new admin takes over we are going to start to see MAJOR DISLOCATIONS. and by then the "wax will be melting at a break neck pace" but they will be taking drastic measures that will be almost unheard of THEY WILL BE OPENLY CRTICIZED BY THE PUNDITS. 3 By 18 months in the FED will go full blast in to the HYPERIFLATION ( IT is at this point whatevery preps you dont have YOU BE GETTING AT ANY PRICE) also the towns will be failing right and left with the tax burden it is putting on homeowners to make up for the massive defaults IT IS AT THIS POINT I SEE MASSIVE CIVIL UNREST AND THE SHOCKTROOPS BEING CALLED IN TO "KEEP THE PEACE" and multiple nations will start to flee the dollar 4 I also feel there is going to and uptick in bad weather patterns and earth quake activity that TPTB will try to blame on global warm and will try to enforce maxium control working through the UN I feel that will be year 3-4 I know I could be talking most trash.........but I feel stuff in gonna unfold somthing along those lines ....one thing I know for sure THEN NEXT PEZ WILL IMPOSE SO FORM OF MARTIAL LAW BEFORE THEY LEAVE OFFICE AND THAT IS "IF" THEY LEAVE. That is something I willing to stake a roll of eagles on I would like to others breakdown of how events are gonna play out T
similar timeline to puplava's; & scenario. i think tis credible & i know puplava's includes oil rising significantly by then due to us being into the supply decline, & though significant demand destruction due to economic pbs. enough new demand from chindia to cause oil prices to go skyward. i agree re olympics , that china won't make waves before fall/winter. & that fed& CB's will likely get traction w/ rate cuts for a while [if not deflation & earlier time frames]. of course these are educated guesses! the other bigger wildcard is i think we had a relatively stable year geopolitically. i question getting thru another summer with such; too many risk factors. this could change everything time wise; & might actually lengthen the timeline overall as financial/oil pbs. would seem more natural & there might be less panic & the US more 'in control' so less $ crash.. jmho!

jaima | 02-15-2008 07:39 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Hey SB, nice to see you back. I would be curious to hear your thoughts on timing I'm enjoying the responses on this thread. I'm not sure I believe in the peak oil theory. I have heard arguments both ways and the jury is still out on that one. There are so many possible factors for a SHTF scenario however I think it will be more of a perfect storm situation where different things all come together. As far as when, who can ignore that something will happen in 2012?

Twisted Avatar | 02-15-2008 09:13 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 968987) Hey SB, nice to see you back. I would be curious to hear your thoughts on timing I'm enjoying the responses on this thread. I'm not sure I believe in the peak oil theory. I have heard arguments both ways and the jury is still out on that one. There are so many possible factors for a SHTF scenario however I think it will be more of a perfect storm situation where different things all come together. As far as when, who can ignore that something will happen in 2012?
That is EXACTLY why I am pushing so many wild events happening so quickly(4 years or less) Because I belive 1000% in the 2012 (that was why I was refering to weather just because of that) Without making this a religious thread .....I have been doing alot of research around 2012 wheather or not you by into maya and doomsayers that can be dabated until the cows come home here is what I know is undispuatble fact. December 21 2012 we will experince a event that can only happen once every26,000 years ......... POLE SHIFT... NORTH SOUTH EAST WEST WILL BE ALTERED. What thats means?? I dont know BUT LIFE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME. we will seperate that event like how we split history into BC/AD. The TPTB now about this as well and THAT is why I see some much wild stuff happening, They are trying to postion themself as the "savior/solution" when the natural distaster and the like start to happen. I can ramble about this stuff 4 days..but my gut feeling is It's best to have the majority of your wealth in Tangible items(Pm,ammo,preps,sustainable land,etc) as old ways continue to crumble paper wealth cash and stocks etc are gonna "go up in flames" ONLY REAL THINGS WILL HAVE VALUE. There are a multitude of unknows but as my momma would tell me "WHAT YOU HOLD IN YOUR HAND......YOU UNDERSTAND" T

jaima | 02-15-2008 09:53 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this TA, there is nothing wrong with a little spirituality injected into a conversation on doomsday. :) What I find interesting is that many religious and spiritual groups all over the world feel this. Its not just the Hopi or the Mayans but very prevalent in some mainstream religions and most New Age groups. I like to look at the subject from all angles. One thing for sure is there are cycles and it appears we are ending one cycle and entering a new one. The whole subject to of global warming is interesting because there is evidence the whole solar system is heating up and that may be a cycle too. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1720024.ece Since I believe we choose our realities here on earth I think most of us have chosen to be here for this coming event because of the tremendous spiritual growth it will provide the soul. Keeping in mind that many of us chose this I wonder if we are allowed to rethink it and change our minds. :) There is tons of interesting reading on the subject. Everything from Bible codes, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, traditional religious material and my latest favorite Greg Braden. He wrote in interesting book on the Matrix that makes a lot of sense. I do think one thing most are in agreement on is there will be a period of upheaval followed by a shift in consciousness and a brighter new world.

Squirrel Bait | 02-15-2008 10:27 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 968688) I kinda ballpark it there 22+ or so for a couple of reasons 1 This ball of financial wax is melting but they are working overtime to keep putting lipstick on this pig (no chaos before a election and china still wants yankees at the olmypics so I guess there will be a uneasy cooperation among the big wigs....... ...........I would like to others breakdown of how events are gonna play out T
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 968987) Hey SB, nice to see you back. I would be curious to hear your thoughts on timing As far as when, who can ignore that something will happen in 2012?
Yeah, I'm back. Had to actually go to work. Imagine!!! T, I agree with much of what you have said, or I don't disagree with it. Alot of what is talked about on this website focuses on economic forces(makes sense). My background is military, so I feel like I tend to look at things from a different point of view. I focus on "windows of opportunity" and "triggers". I think the next widow of opportunity will be when the next President takes office, but not before. Transitions of power are always times of vulnerability and with the USD heading south and the US debt so increadably high we are not in a position of power. Bush is a wild card. But if any type of move is made while he is still in office "could he still hold on to his power?" Probably not if things remain stable, ie no external forces or massive internal collapse. This is where "triggers" come into play. They can either be "natural", ie a New Madrid type earthquake or a west of east coast tsumami. Or, they can be orchestrated(as some believe Pearl Harbor was actually set up to get the USA into the war, lots of evidence too). T, I don't don't disagree with your scenario per se, but I believe things could happen earlier, but something will need to trigger it. China appears to be a driving force. As a nation they are very wealthy, they are very proud as a people, they are focused in their drive forward. At some point in time I believe they will "make their move". They have strong ties with Russia, another country that has been on the rise since the fall of the USSR. They too are now a very wealthy country. Both of these countries have a long history of being pitted against the USA. They both now have very strong, new treaties with Iran. The next trigger will somehow involve "FOOD". Hungery, starving people are very hard to control. And the US is now turning food into gasoline. Imagine that. 911 was a trigger event. It got everything moving which set up the scenario we are now in. The next trigger will accelerate things. The book "The Fourth Turning" talks about how the Crash of 1929 was the trigger that set up WWII but it wasn't until Japan attacked China and then Germany attcked Poland that things really accelerated. These things appear to happen on 80 year cycles. I believe we are in the focal point of that next cycle, or at least very close. There are Biblical prophecies that I think are involved here also, but that is another discussion Doom and Gloom SB

jaima | 02-15-2008 10:46 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this SB, ah yes work. I'm lucky, I have a job that pays me to play on the Internet till I'm called to emergencies. :) I'm fairly sure our IT guy checks my computer because he made a point to come to my Office and tell me he was prepared to go Rambo when TSHTF. LOL, at least he didnt think I was nuts. I agree on a trigger event. That trigger could be anything or come from anywhere. Personally although Bush and Cheney are fading I am still worried they will trigger an event before Bush leaves office. Remember that Directive he signed last May giving himself sole power over the Emergency Management Policy of this country. He can cancel the election and stay around a while longer to ignite an Armageddon he feels he has a role in. I just dont see Bush writing that Directive for Hilary to use. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...070509-12.html

jaima | 02-15-2008 10:52 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Lt Dan, are you sure all people in your Church family are all condition white? Even the conservative Greek Orthodox Church has began to discuss this subject. That shocked me. Also I work with many southern blacks and they tell me this is a huge subject in their churches. Its something we discuss on a regular basis at work. I get very frustrated with them because they believe this is coming and refuse to prepare because they want to trust in God to meet their needs. I dont see the population as unenlightened as many here believe. I think many know this is coming but dont want to deal with it.

Silver Shield | 02-15-2008 10:58 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Speaking of 2012... It does seem like a lot of earth changing events are supposed to happen then. Pole Shift? Mayan calander ends? Kondratief cycle ends? I already saw a section in the book store dedicated to 2012. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...2012&x=26&y=23 But I feel like I am just getting pumped for another Millenium hype or when the calender read 6/6/6. I think there is always a market for near-term doom. Thoughts.

Squirrel Bait | 02-15-2008 11:01 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijah (Post 969210) As for 2012.... we can only speculate on that, but I feel it too and avoid the subject at all costs in my church family. That they even tolerate some of my ideas is a mystery to me, as so many of them are either in condition white or know some of this but are in denial. Most of my family is the same way, though they do except most things Native American like me.
Lt. Dan I too have to keep my mouth shut at Church. Every now and then I say something at Bible study and everyone stops and looks at me in silence. As for Polar shift, you can't talk about that without involving Sitchin. And Jaima, I too have been lead to read most of the same books you mentioned. Spirituality is important but most people just don't want to go there. So if you have any intuitions or dreams, well, it would be nice if you would forward the warnings. Family thing, right?? Me too. I have been under the impression that we won't have a PS until after the event that we are now facing, though. We have to get through this first. SB

Twisted Avatar | 02-15-2008 11:16 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Lots to consider and no clear answers just educated guesses and gut feeling reactions. Everyone is going to do there best to be at peace with their maker..... and prepare as best as they can on all fronts physically,spritually, mentally etc everthing else to contibutes to theroy. I just look forward to knowing in about 5 years I wont have to pay taxes!!:s9: T

jaima | 02-15-2008 11:41 AM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Lt Dan and SB, I express my "odd ideas" in most circumstances. One of the advantages of being a female and having a Mother and Sister who were psychics and gypsy like is everyone already thinks your nuts. I suppose its worse for men who have been in the Service, then you risk adding the title deranged Vet tacked on. Still you might find people more open minded then you suspect. SB, are you talking Zecharia Sitchin? If so he was the ultimate gold bug.. LOL Dreams are interesting. The last big one was the one my Daughter had about sick people being put into camps. As she gets older she seems to be opening up more. On of the most distressing dreams I had was a few years ago. Almost every night for a few months I went to the same place. Some type of catastrophic event had occurred. I never knew what it was but I had the feeling it was weather related. I went back to the same place night after night for months and we did post holocaust clean up. Some nights I would tend to sick patients and other nights clean up debris. Finally reconstruction started. I would wake up exhausted. Whats really interesting is I mentioned these dreams to a girlfriend and she was having the same dreams about the same place. Then it abruptly stopped for both of us.

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jaima | 02-15-2008 01:40 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Lt Dan, good luck with HP. I find them very ANNOYIMG to deal with. I put HP and VW at the top of my merchant Sh@t list! Remind me to tell you the HP Big Foot hard drive story and the printer cartridge night mare story some day.:rant: Hopefully their service has improved. Sorry to hear about the PTSD you still suffer from. So many Vets came back from Vietnam damaged. It must have been really bad over there. Thank for your service to this country. I have never understood the mentality of Religions that think they are the only chosen ones for salvation. Its even prevalent in the New Age religions. I believe God offers salvation to anyone who asks for it. As Quantum Physics progresses Science will one day be able to prove we are all connected and one. I suspect in Gods eyes we are all equal. As far as who survives the upcoming storm we can all prepare but that's really in Gods hands too. Some of the Sheeple may outlast many of us. :)

Squirrel Bait | 02-15-2008 01:46 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Blessed are the meek. sb

Twisted Avatar | 02-15-2008 04:50 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 969461) Lt Dan, good luck with HP. I find them very ANNOYIMG to deal with. I put HP and VW at the top of my merchant Sh@t list! Remind me to tell you the HP Big Foot hard drive story and the printer cartridge night mare story some day.:rant: Hopefully their service has improved. Sorry to hear about the PTSD you still suffer from. So many Vets came back from Vietnam damaged. It must have been really bad over there. Thank for your service to this country. I have never understood the mentality of Religions that think they are the only chosen ones for salvation. Its even prevalent in the New Age religions. I believe God offers salvation to anyone who asks for it. As Quantum Physics progresses Science will one day be able to prove we are all connected and one. I suspect in Gods eyes we are all equal.As far as who survives the upcoming storm we can all prepare but that's really in Gods hands too. Some of the Sheeple may outlast many of us. :)
I think I came across Quant P when I saw that movie "what the bleep do you know?" That was some REALLY powerful stuff as the majority of the matterial has been "scientfically" tested ...... I still put message "Abundance"on my water bottles when I remeber. All of this stuff is going to hash out and reach a point of convergence where everybody who is open to it will know: what you do to the other you do to yourself cause nobody is seperate from no-thing, all it is, is just the perception of seperation but that will get smashed in 2012 (hoping) I am going to do my personal best to make sure I live to see the other side of this mess cause I am dam tried of being so pessimistic over the immediate short term. But I know before it gets better it first has to get WAAAAAAAAAY worse. That is just the realist in me talking. T

Ulysses | 02-15-2008 05:11 PM
Re: stocks, cash and PMs role in this jaima, First off, you're doing well, don't despair. My guess is we all wish we could have done more than we have. There are many different possible SHTF scenarios. Since no one can predict exactly when, how or even if TS will HTF, I think it makes sense to prep in a way that doesn't depend on a particular scenario playing out for you to be ok. As to the specific role of PMs, in any SHTF scenario where financial institutions or gov't institutions break down, fiat may lose most or all of its credibility and value. PM's would come in very handy. But if we see the inflationary/deflationary swings many have predicted, cash will be king during the deflationary swings. So it's a good idea to "wrap" your PMs in some paper (FRNs). I suggest holding anywhere between 5 and 25% of the total value of your PMs in cash, the higher the value the lower the %. That way, you'll have options during a deflationary swing when cash is scarce and prices fall. You won't be forced to sell PMs with falling prices to cover your own cash needs, or you'll be able to pick up PMs sold by people desperate to get cash. Of course, these "deflationary swings" are getting shorter and are usually followed by even larger inflationary "waves". JMO, NIA :D PS. Remember that your most precious commodity is probably your sanity and ability to enjoy life, so keep it all in context. Eat, drink and be merry...

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