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Lovemonster | 01-31-2007 12:52 PM
FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Anyone have any experience with this pistol? http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/57/ The Five-seveN� fires the SS190 5.7x28mm ball round. This projectile will perforate any individual protection on today's battlefield including the PASGT kevlar helmet, 48 layers of kevlar body armor and the CRISAT target (titanium and kevlar).

Lackluster | 01-31-2007 12:58 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Wow, that's a wicked looking handgun round. I bet that gets banned fast.

Goldfinger | 01-31-2007 01:07 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Nice! Lackluster is probably right though...

eat_beef | 01-31-2007 01:12 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? It's a great specialty piece, but the ammo is high enough to brush me back. I don't know what purpose it could possibly serve ME. YOU might have a purpose for it, but if I need to punch armor...well that's what rifles are for. To be honest, I'm not a big fan of handguns at all, IMO they're just something you use to shoot your way back to a real gun.:aetsch:

REV127 | 01-31-2007 01:18 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? First off, that claim is inaccurate. It will defeat the PASGT helmet and LVL IIIA soft armor. The SS190 will do nothing of interest against any LVL III or LVL IV armor. There is another consideration, too, and that is what will happen once the bullet gets through the armor? The 5.7 is a .22 magnum essentially. This is why I prefer the 7.62x25, it'll defeat most anything the 5.7x28 will but does so with a wider, heavier bullet. Besides, you won't be getting any SS190. You'll be getting the civillian legal crippled round, the SS192 or similar bullet designed to expand or fragment. If you can convert a 10mm to .224 boz you'd be in business, and it can use standard .223/5.56 bullets so you can get the SS109 or M855 coming out of your pistol. I'm still wanting to build a 7.62x25 doublestack autoloader but this is my fallback position. If just want something smaller than a rifle that can deal with armored gangstas and you don't mind something bigger than a normal pistol you can opt for one of the rifle-derived pistols like the AR-15 pistols, AK-pistols or Kel-Tech's PLR-16. Finally, if you can scare up any Aguilla IQ ammo in 9x19mm or .45acp they are also effective against soft armor. There's some weird physics involves that I don't quite understand.

Abouthadit | 01-31-2007 01:20 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Hey Rev, what do you shoot 7.62x25 in besides a CZ52?

silverbullet | 01-31-2007 01:22 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? It's too late for it to be banned "fast". It's been out for well over a year, and nobody has said much about it. It's kind of a neat round, but I'm not real sure where it would fit in. You can pick up a good .45 AND a rifel for the cost of this handgun, and the ammo is pricey and hard to find. Not something you would want come SHTF time.

REV127 | 01-31-2007 01:35 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Quote:
Originally Posted by Abouthadit (Post 493445) Hey Rev, what do you shoot 7.62x25 in besides a CZ52?
The Tokarev TT-33, also a good gun. Conventional wisdom says the C-96 Mauser can't safely fire the hotter 7.62x25, but I've heard from a few users now who say theirs gobbles up the mighty Tok all day long without problems. I'd be confident enough to give it a go and since I like these old German guns I might buy one and try it out someday. PPSH and other parts kits from subguns that fire the 7.62x25 show up from time to time and can usually be had fairly cheap. If you're handy you could fabricate a reciever and get on up and running again. I've always wanted a 7.62x25 carbine so I might tuck away such a kit for a future project. With the ATF's barrel ban in place it'd be wise to scoop up any kits you want now. I've got a brace of CZ-52's. One of them is fully operational, even the decocker works right though I don't use that function. I was repairing the decocker on the other one but got stuck on reassembly for lack of a pin press. Harbor Freight has the answer but I haven't picked one up yet. Anyway, the CZ-52 I have running is very accurate, reliable and flat shooting. I replaced the stock firing pin with one of the Harrington "trigger job" style firing pins so it's now got a pretty sweet trigger pull and I can dryfire all day long without worry.

Lovemonster | 01-31-2007 02:26 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Lots of good info (above). There was an appeal that came down today where an ex-con fired one of these at 3AM in a parking lot. I didnt know much about this pistol ""In the early morning ours after leaving a closing bar, defendant fired his "FN Herstal Five-seveN Pistol," which fires a projectile that will perforate any individual protection on today's battlefield including the PASGT Kevlar helmet, 48 layers of kevlar body armor and a titanium and Kevlar combination. J. Posner finds that, considering the power and range of the Herstal, the proximity of buildings in some of which there may have been security guards or cleaning staffs even at 3 a.m., and considering too that patrons of the bar leaving the club were close to, perhaps even in, the parking lot where the shooting took place, the lower court did not commit a clear error or misinterpret Indiana law when it ruled that the defendant's reckless action created a substantial risk of bodily harm. 46-month sentence affirmed."" <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?submit=showbr&shofile=06-2431_005.pdf<o:p></o:p>

<SLV> | 01-31-2007 02:34 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? What's with the trigger guard? Are they assuming you are wearing snowmobile gloves?

Anty Ep | 01-31-2007 02:38 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? like rev said, just get a cz 52 and some hot 7.62x25 and save the remaining grand for pms. not all 7.62x25 is loaded the same. the cz 52 can take some really hot stuff due to its design. read up on this on the net to figure out what lots are hotter than other. I figure stuff made in Czech but I'd be surprised if it was the Sellior and Belliot stuff. Been over a decade since I laid up my stash of that lol.

REV127 | 01-31-2007 02:46 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? The S&B will do plus or minus 1650fps, it really is one of the hotter loads out there but those chronos have reported inconsistency with some rounds being a little hotter or weaker. The cheap Romanian surplus is said to be very tame, like 1300fps. 7.62x25 will tumble after it dumps enough velocity so what the Romanian might give up against armor it might make up for with soft target performance but I haven't tested any yet. I think it was the Bulgarian that was the super hot subbgun ammo. The S&B is good for 510ftlbs of muzzle energy at 1650fps though and that's good enough for me. The Wolf Gold Line ammo is rated the same and they list a HP loading on their site, but so far I haven't gotten my hands on any Wolf Tok.

Abouthadit | 01-31-2007 03:07 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 493442) This is why I prefer the 7.62x25, it'll defeat most anything the 5.7x28 will but does so with a wider, heavier bullet.
Check out Reed's Ammunition & Research for a hot load for your CZ-52.

desertjack | 01-31-2007 03:18 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? 1 Attachment(s) Spot on, Rev about watching out for Bulgy ammo. Bulgarian 7.62x25 that came in in pink boxes should be avoided for pistol use, it is definately sug-gun/carbine only. www.aimsurplus.com has the Wolf HP tok ammo listed for sale. btw, I love my CZ's too.:coolbeer:

REV127 | 01-31-2007 03:19 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Very nice! :cool: I like their hollowpoints, I'm going to have to pick some up.

Anty Ep | 01-31-2007 04:23 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 493571) The S&B will do plus or minus 1650fps, it really is one of the hotter loads out there
aha, that is good to know Quote:
.....I think it was the Bulgarian that was the super hot subbgun ammo. The S&B is good for 510ftlbs of muzzle energy at 1650fps though and that's good enough for me
Yeah I think that's what I got. And What about Hirtenberger, did they make that caliber? Or maybe I am thinking of some hot 9mm they made. Quote:
...The Wolf Gold Line ammo is rated the same and they list a HP loading on their site, but so far I haven't gotten my hands on any Wolf Tok.
Hp probably wont perforate stuff

Bogie | 01-31-2007 06:08 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? I bought one when they first came out figuring on some sort of ban the ammo is increadbly hard to find at reasonable prices so it is no longer my carry gun, There are 2 diffrent model triger guards a squared off & a round one.

wallew | 01-31-2007 06:33 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? The Five-seveN has been out since 2000 and was developed as a companion arm for the P90. It made a big splash in all the gun rags mid/late 2000 and then kind of disappeared, given the cost and scarity of ammo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-seveN I own several CZ52's. I and a friend of mine (he's in Germany) have both chronoed some of the Romanian right at 1900 fps. That's about 250 fps slower than the 5.7, and like Rev says, it's a larger, heavier bullet. When my buddy was in 'the sand box' as a contractor, he said he never went anywhere without at least one of his. Said it would (and did) cut through a car like a hot knife through butter. Front to rear, side to side. Everything inside is D E A D. Period, end of problem. And every male taller than knee high seemed to have one tucked somewhere on his person. Given some of the ammo available over there, he left his Mak's at home and just picked up a couple of the CZ52's. If you want a CZ52, these guys are still selling them fairly cheaply. http://www.classicarms.us/ Scroll down a little more than half way on that page. Either $140 for a parked one like the two above, or $200 for a chromed one. I've got several examples, EVEN one of the chromed ones. I consider it my 'pimp' gun. They all shoot nice and flat. I would NOT want to be on the receiving end of one of those. Extra factory mags can be had at KY Imports at the cost of $20 each or 5 for $95. http://www.kyimports.com/accessor4.htm#Mags Scroll down to CZ52. I picked up four per weapon I have. I own roughly twenty spare mags. I saw where AIM is selling 1224 cases for $110. http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of_7_62x25.html

Worldmariner | 02-01-2007 06:32 AM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 493544) What's with the trigger guard? Are they assuming you are wearing snowmobile gloves?
Military cold weather gear. This is a weapon designed for the military. I have heard that the SS190 ammo can defeat SOME kinds of body armour, but I would be interested to see how it performs against DragonShield body armor, or Second Chance body armour. Those two styles will stop 7.62x39 ammo.

Anty Ep | 02-01-2007 08:49 AM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? hey walley, beave here. didja see that swiss k31 rifles, at classicarms, they have a really neat action and shoot a massive round. gotta love em. http://www.classicarms.us/images/firearms/K31jpg.jpg

Anty Ep | 02-01-2007 08:52 AM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? same page, I love this kind of shotgun. with the exposed hammers, a 12 ga side by side, cut down, is called by Sicilians a "lupara," because shepherds used to carry them for protection against wolves. today, one might have such a weapon for use against two legged wolves. I would not buy the Chink one however, there are other makes. oh and dont cut down any shotgun even a hair's width under 18" remember Randy Weaver? http://www.classicarms.us/410-COACH.jpg

Anty Ep | 02-01-2007 08:54 AM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? park'd is good http://www.classicarms.us/MVC-CZ52S.JPG pimp'd is bad http://www.classicarms.us/MVC-CZCH.JPG

REV127 | 02-01-2007 10:04 AM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? It's too bad so many people percieve a sensible and manly finish like hardchrome as "pimp." It offers good wear resistance and lubricity while simultaneously providing excellent protection against corrosion. Considering there is much inexpensive but corrosive 7.62x25 surplus ammo to be had I feel a hardchrome finish makes sense. I prefer a brushed texture to a highly polished surface, though. I had my MAK-90 matte hard chromed by Cole's before they moved out of the state because I wanted my SHTF gun to be as indifferent to environmental conditions as possible. I am planning on gunkoting mine though, either black or olive drab. On that note I've seen some CZ-52's that were redone with olive drab gunkote. It seems like a minor thing but they look a million times better with a little color, at least to my eye. Black looks good as well, I imagine a grey or bluegrey wouldn't be bad either. Maybe even brown. The parkerized finish on my CZ-52's is a great surface for a polycoat to bond to.

Anty Ep | 02-01-2007 12:19 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Hey Rev I'm fixin to call you "Da Rev" from now on. say anybody got a link to that flash game "pimpslap?" :getdown:

wallew | 02-01-2007 12:25 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Rev, Yeah, hard chrome has a bad rap. I call it my 'pimp' gun BECAUSE it is the only one that looks different than all my other blued or parked pistols. And using a gunkote of different manufacture is a way to protect the firearm AND have it look different than anyone else's. When I worked for RMA (BearCoat), they did several firearms with a green upper and a black lower. THEY LOOKED SWEET. So did light gray up top and black on the bottom. There are lots of combos you can come up with. Bear Coat recently announced the addition of a line of Coyote brown. Given they can mix white to any color they have to lighten it up, there should be several shades. Imagine a light tan upper and a dark brown lower. WOW! That would definately be different. I like the 'dark brown' holster you have, Anty Ep. All mine showed up in the light tan. So I scuffed it a little and then used dark brown shoe polish on it. Not as brown as yours, but WAY BETTER than that 'newbie' look of light tan. And yeah, Classic Arms has generally had a fair selection of Mausers. The k31's are definately worth a second look. And while I would love to have a double, it would have to be a Winchester. And they ain't cheap. Still looking for my second Model 12 (break down). One of these days, I'll find one I don't mind shortening down to 19" barrel like the one sitting in my closet. I just can't cut a nice one down. So I look for a beater than I can shorten the barrel and then grit blast and reblue. If you use the large grit, then blue, it almost looks parked.

Anty Ep | 02-01-2007 12:26 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? warning flash game not for kids or politically correct people! http://www.aeonity.com/ab/games/simu...ap-that-ho.php

wallew | 02-01-2007 12:36 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? my best was 332 mph super slap EDIT - nope - I got a 407 mph super slap

Anty Ep | 02-01-2007 01:33 PM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 494900) my best was 332 mph super slap
http://www.cvreefers.org/images/smilies/pimp.gif I think that's maximum velocity! http://www.cvreefers.org/images/smilies/slap.gif

Unclad Lad | 02-03-2007 02:11 AM
Re: FN's Five-seveN� Pistol- anyone? Quote:
It's too bad so many people percieve a sensible and manly finish like hardchrome as "pimp.
Yeah-besides, it's Nickel Plating that's Pimp. Back to the FiveSeven, though, I'd really like to see it in a concealed carry version--imagine a single-stack slim pistol, like a 21st Century version of the Browning 1903. Call it "The Executive". :s9:

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