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Russkie | 01-07-2010 11:36 AM
Urban Survival I live in an apartment building in Moscow. If there were ever a crisis, I have come to the conclusion that I would be better off staying put, than taking my chances wandering out into the countryside. I was trying to get my mind around things like stockpiling, water, energy, growing food, etc. Here are some preliminary ideas: -must form a connection to most of the other people in the building, to coordinate efforts. -Small nuclear shelter in the basement. -Water tanks on the roof, and catchments. Setting up water cacthes from down spouts of my building and other ones too. -Rabbits and pigeons on the roof or balcony. I lived in a flat once where the previous owner had the balcony set up as a chicken coop. -What types of stoves can be set up in the flat, running a chimeny pipe out of the window. -Where to get fuel. -How to use the roof for secure storage and growing a garden. -Fortifying the lower levels of the apartment building against intruders, and establishing lookouts and guards. -Using shotguns for close-range protection, and deer rifles from the upper stories for long-range. -How to keep it all on the QT from local police or gang members. -How much the usual survival prep, such as medical supplies, etc. applies to this situation. -How to manage the surrounding territory, sending groups of people out to patrol and forage, maybe with sniper support from the roof. -Using enclosed courtyards. -Comandeering a large open space inside of a close building, a rooftop, etc. Any thoughts on urban survival?

Grad | 01-07-2010 12:01 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Russkie (Post 2113323) Any thoughts on urban survival?
You may wanna read this SHTF-documentary book. Very thought-provoking. ( The book documents hundreds of real cases from the 872-days siege of Leningrade by Germans, which resulted in 1,500,000 of deaths among the city inhabitants) wide spread cannibalism, after all the birds, rats and pets were eaten by the survivors The book is the collection of testimonies of those who lived through all that hell. thats real urban survival stuf. I am not aware of any english translations though. http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/a...028_m_6056.jpg

MNeagle | 01-07-2010 12:09 PM
Re: Urban Survival I agree that in the SHORT-TERM You might be better off. But long term, I'd guess your neighbors now become your rivals for survival. I'd concentrate on establishing a bug-out rural area w/ friends or your own ownership. In the short term, you may not have food, but at least you'd have security perhaps. Staying in a cage equates certain demise to me. Good luck either way.

jogslvr | 01-07-2010 12:14 PM
Re: Urban Survival If the bad guys want what you or what you have, they will take it. A group of ordinary armed citizens will be no match for organized gangs with paramilitary training and ordnance. :signs14:

917601 | 01-07-2010 12:17 PM
Re: Urban Survival Any thoughts on urban survival?Moscow? :111::111::111: Having been there and done that in much more challenging times-unless you are a Russian citizen and not a blue passport holder, Good Luck ,unless you are WELL connected.

Grad | 01-07-2010 12:41 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by 917601 (Post 2113414) Any thoughts on urban survival?Moscow? :111::111::111:
THTF is a perpetual state of life in Russia. Populous is trained to clean up the shelves at the slightest rumor of trouble. Since birth every Russian learns to load up on preps. I would not be worried about the THTF if I were you, Russkie. Except Russia gets involved in a major war, what else could possibly trigger THTF in Russia?

Russkie | 01-07-2010 01:05 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Grad (Post 2113460) THTF is a perpetual state of life in Russia. Populous is trained to clean up the shelves at the slightest rumor of trouble. Since birth every Russian learns to load up on preps. I would not be worried about the THTF if I were you, Russkie. Except Russia gets involved in a major war, what else could possibly trigger THTF in Russia?
Good point. So long as people keep going to the dacha and the govt keeps the trains running, Russia is pretty durable. Good idea about the worm farms.

Canadian-guerilla | 01-07-2010 01:11 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Grad (Post 2113380) You may wanna read this SHTF-documentary book. Very thought-provoking. ( The book documents hundreds of real cases from the 872-days siege of Leningrade by Germans, which resulted in 1,500,000 of deaths among city inhabitants) wide spread cannibalism, after all the birds, rats and pets were eaten by the survivors The book is the collection of testimonies of those who lived through all that hell. thats real urban survival stuf. I am not aware of any english translations though.
do you have a rough translation of the above title ? sounds like a great " been there, done that " book while i'm not a fan of bugging-in i would make some remote food caches only known to yourself how would you protect yourself when the mob committee(s) demands to inspect your premises to check for hoarding

Goldfinger007 | 01-07-2010 01:34 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Since birth every Russian learns to load up on preps.
As I recall, Dmitry says the Russians will cope much better than Americans because they know the system won't work and prepare themselves for such. I believe he said it in this article. Sorry I'm at work right now and can't confirm. Good read anyway and relevant. http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2009/0...practices.html

Grad | 01-07-2010 01:36 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 2113509) do you have a rough translation of the above title ? sounds like a great " been there, done that " book
it is "been there, done that" book. It is interesting that first people that died out were tall & strong males. Only shorties survived the siege. I am not aware of any translations, was it published in Australia? http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/36275 Authors are Adamovich and Granin Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 2113509) while i'm not a fan of bugging-in i would make some remote food caches only known to yourself
exactly, like some people from the book knew about an old syrup-spill at a candy factory and survived the siege by eating the mud / soil at the place. Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 2113509) how would you protect yourself when the mob committee(s) demands to inspect your premises to check for hoarding
Certain things are imposible to survive, you only can improve your chances Adolph Hitler, September 29, 1941, outset of the Operation Barbarossa: “All offers of surrender from Leningrad must be rejected. In this struggle for survival, we have no interest in keeping even a proportion of the city’s population alive.”

Grad | 01-07-2010 01:48 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 2113509) remote food caches only known to yourself
just remember, looking fatter than others may mean trouble

Grad | 01-07-2010 02:03 PM
Re: Urban Survival other often overlooked thoughts, when surviving starvation, cold becomes a biggest threat. No ammount of blankets can make you comfortable, because you will still need to breath. and the only air there is is cold air. while not a problem normaly, it is a killer when starving furniture/trees/shrubs/books run out pretty quickly in urban settings utility wont work, windows will be broken. most died of hypotermia+starvation combination.

Canadian-guerilla | 01-07-2010 02:16 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Grad (Post 2113548) it is "been there, done that" book. It is interesting that first people that died out were tall & strong males. Only shorties survived the siege. I am not aware of any translations, was it published in Australia? http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/36275 Authors are Adamovich and Granin
His ( Granin ) other recognized work is The Blockade Book (in Russian "Блокадная книга", 1977-81; in English translation, 2003), a testimony of the events of the Siege of Leningrad of 1941-44. Written together with Ales Adamovich, this book is based on several hundred interviews, often quoted directly, as selected by the book authors. The book was nominated for the 2004 Lettre Ulysses Award for the Art of Reportage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniil_Granin i'll stick " The Blockade Book " on my internet-to-find list maybe Lessons from The Siege of Leningrad would be a good " prep " thread

Canadian-guerilla | 01-07-2010 02:22 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Grad (Post 2113575) utility wont work, windows will be broken. most died of hypothermia+starvation combination.
i've been thinking about this myself could one survive under a pile of comforters/sleeping bags with no outside heat source ? i believe the secret to body heat retention is " dead air pockets " would one's own body heat be enough with 6-8 sleeping bags over them ?

Victor | 01-07-2010 02:25 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 2113591) i've been thinking about this myself could one survive under a pile of comforters/sleeping bags with no outside heat source ? i believe the secret to body heat retention is " dead air pockets " would one's own body heat be enough with 6-8 sleeping bags over them ?
You have to breathe eventually, exposing your head and face.:36_1_63:

Canadian-guerilla | 01-07-2010 02:45 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor (Post 2113598) You have to breathe eventually, exposing your head and face.:36_1_63:
a scuba snorkel with a tube extension on the end http://www.underwaterfishing.co.uk/Guide/image005.jpg extending out beyond my cocoon with some kind of meshing over the end the only blockage would be from possible condensation buildup/freezing from breathing i'm only thinking here concerning EXTREME survival conditions somewhere out of the wind ( abandoned farmhouse/factory ) getting up once a day to stretch, bathroom, eat, and then back under the covers

Nomen luni | 01-07-2010 03:50 PM
Re: Urban Survival Hey Russkie, don't want to hijack your thread, but I would love to know what day to day life is like in Moscow, in terms of crime, how easy it is to get by, anything 'survival related' if you have anything to share with us.

State of Jefferson | 01-07-2010 03:56 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Grad (Post 2113380) ( The book documents hundreds of real cases from the 872-days siege of Leningrade by Germans, which resulted in 1,500,000 of deaths among the city inhabitants) wide spread cannibalism, after all the birds, rats and pets were eaten by the survivors
Why in Hell didn't they just surrender? Cannibalism? No fu*king way I'd ever turn to that. Were the Stalinist bastards so tightly in charge that Peterburgers preferred losing 1.5 million people in the most atrocious way, than simply give in? Not like surrender was certain death. (arguably, better to live under Hitler than Stalin, even as a slave-laborer)

Juristic Person | 01-07-2010 04:12 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Grad (Post 2113380) You may wanna read this SHTF-documentary book. Very thought-provoking. ( The book documents hundreds of real cases from the 872-days siege of Leningrade by Germans, which resulted in 1,500,000 of deaths among the city inhabitants) wide spread cannibalism, after all the birds, rats and pets were eaten by the survivors The book is the collection of testimonies of those who lived through all that hell. thats real urban survival stuf. I am not aware of any english translations though. http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/a...028_m_6056.jpg
I would get out of Urbania before I resorted to eating humans... .

State of Jefferson | 01-07-2010 04:26 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Grad (Post 2113720) are you kidding? :confused_ma: Adolph Hitler, September 29, 1941, outset of the Operation Barbarossa: “All offers of surrender from Leningrad must be rejected. In this struggle for survival, we have no interest in keeping even a proportion of the city’s population alive.” that was an extermination war, the goal was to eradicate the city’s population through starvation "the city to be reduced, so that the Germans would not have to feed its population"
So, where did you source that quote? William L. Shirer? I suppose you "believe in" the Holocaust™ as well? The lies about the Germans are so absurd, it's almost unbelievable that anyone would even consider them valid for a second. Refuse surrender? Right. Several million Slavic Ostarbeiter were taken to Germany, and yes, they lived better than they did under Kaganovich in Ukraine. And BTW, it's Adolf...your misspelling gave it away.

Professur | 01-07-2010 04:26 PM
Re: Urban Survival Quote:
Originally Posted by Grad (Post 2113548) it is "been there, done that" book. It is interesting that first people that died out were tall & strong males. Only shorties survived the siege.
funny, i mentioned this exact point just yesterday.

Professur | 01-07-2010 05:04 PM
Re: Urban Survival Odd that you posted that photo. It's been heavily touched up, y'know. One of the earliest provable examples of the media modifying the truth.

ArizonaGold | 01-08-2010 01:41 PM
Re: Urban Survival I have spent time in St. Petersburg (the former Leningrad), and have spoken to people there about the "Blokada". It has certainly changed them as a people, and the world has much to learn and remember from it. For me, it is a story of resilience, determination, creativity, and ultimate victory, with a few stories of heroism thrown in. I often consider aspects of that story and its relevance to my life and preps. But the OP's question was about survival in Moscow. I don't have any good answers. I can't imagine a happy outcome for Moscow residents. The only good news is that the walls are usually thick, and concrete, and if you are prepared to stay in your apartment for six months, you MIGHT be all right. Even that is probably impossible. It's better in the Russian countryside. There, EVERYTHING is produced locally. The milk, cheese, eggs, butter, meats, and even the wonderful ice cream is probably made within a short distance of where it is consumed. That helps. It also helps that expectations are low, and the people are used to living on less. I would select a city of 100,000 or so within a reasonable distance, make connections to the city and some of its people, and have a plan to get there and to contribute. You don't want to show up unknown and unannounced. Bring some practical skills with you. And good luck.

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