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- - Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=47675)

smullen | 07-21-2006 12:19 PM
Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order I don't know if you all heard about it on the news or not, but a large part of St. Louis where I live was hit by severe storms and a tornados were spotted in a few places; This leaving about a half a million houses without power.... The Power Comapanies' spokes person said, We've had big outtages in the past , but this is the worst outtage we've had in 100 years... Some would only be with out power for 24 hours, but many could be without power for 4+ Days... Hopefully, it will be quicker, but you never know.... It didn't really set in to me till my father and I went to the store to pick a few things up.... Because of all the traffic lights being out, It took over an hour to get somewhere that normaly takes us 15-20 minutes.. When we got to one of the many stores we visited, we saw pure panic and madness... Most places we went to were running out of Batteries, Bottled Water, and any kinda fresh perishable foods... The Fast food places that were open were only partial open, only serving partial menus... Most of the Gas stations are out of power or running on so little that thay can't pump gas... Some of the ones that have power are out of gas and are just selling off their Ciggerettes, Soda, candies and other crap.... Every Home Depot, Lowes, Habor Freight, Sams, Wal-mart, Costco and any other store that you can think of within a hour or so drive is sold out of Generators and has no idea when the next truck is comming... What really got to me was that the water was working, but we were under a Boil order.... You just take water for granted... That and we are already losing food from the fridge and coolers not being able to maintain the temps... I was really caught off guard and know I (we, my family) need to evaulate and make better plans and stock up... Things we did have enough of to last a short time. Cash/FRNs and CoinChange Lanterns (both Battery and kerosene) Flashlights Extra Batteries Battery Powered Weather Radio and 2 Way Radios 2 Redundant Cell Phones, Different Providers Air Mattresses Small Battery Powered and Hand Pumps to blow up matteresses Extra Blankets/Pillows Extension Cords Battery Powered Fans Candels Matches Charcoal Asprin (few pain releivers) Sun Screen Water (enough for us for week maybe just a bit) Breads (7-10 days) Meats, Fruits, vegtables, (7-10 days) Chips/Snacks (several days) Condiments (Months) Trash Bags Paper Plates Paper Cups (I like the paper plates and stuff, because they can be burnt as a firestarter or something and not have to be washed, wasting water) Weapons and Ammo (Plenty) Everything else we did not have enough of to last more than 3 days... This whole thing (only 2 days into it) has been a big smack in the face to me.... What if this was going be a few weeks, Months or worse... I am researching Generaters right now and plan to by a decent sized Portable one asap, with plan to buy a bigger whole house sized one later... We are going to get a better checklist of supplies that we should have on hand for unplanned events and start stocking up on them... I figure we'll pick up a few things each week and just keep stocking up... One thing that seems like it would pose issue, is storage.. I mean a few cans here and there don't take up to much room, but when you are talking all the food and thngs that a family needs to live on for weeks at a time, that adds up... Then start looking at Firewood, Fuel, large Water Storage, notto mention waste water storage. While the people with multiple acres in a somewhat Rual area in idaho or Oregon or someplace have plenty, Space becomes a real challenge for us Urbanites with 1/2 an acre at best...

Indy | 07-21-2006 12:35 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Thanks for the info, good luck buddy.

silverJeep | 07-21-2006 01:01 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Is it over? How are you able to get in the internet and post if you have no power? We lost power for 4 days when I lived in Louisiana during Katrina. Learned a lot from that experience. Hope all is well.

smullen | 07-21-2006 01:27 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Quote:
Originally Posted by silverJeep (Post 306585) Is it over? How are you able to get in the internet and post if you have no power? We lost power for 4 days when I lived in Louisiana during Katrina. Learned a lot from that experience. Hope all is well.
Nope, no idea when it'll be over... I am posting from the office, it always has power... Being an ISP we have multiple OC-48s to different top tier backbone providers and each of our sites has atleast one Huge Desiel Generator that can run for months (as long as they are refueled every week or so)... I guess if things get to bad I can always bring my pillow to the office and atleast have a sustainable tempature... I don't think they'd mind just me, but I don't think they'd dig the family and 2 dogs...

Book | 07-21-2006 01:28 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Quote:
I was really caught off guard and know I (we, my family) need to evaulate and make better plans and stock up... -Smullen
Thanks for reminding all of us to recheck our pantries/supplies. Good luck Smullen! :wavey:

cb&julie | 07-21-2006 01:39 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order I don't know if they still do but RadioShack used to sell hand-crankable recharchable radio/weather radio/flashlights.

demosfen | 07-21-2006 02:12 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order I bought one last week from advancedmart.com. Can run on AA batteries too, so I also bought a solar-powered battery recharger. Good stuff

silverJeep | 07-21-2006 04:23 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Quote:
Originally Posted by smullen (Post 306612) Nope, no idea when it'll be over... I am posting from the office, it always has power... Being an ISP we have multiple OC-48s to different top tier backbone providers and each of our sites has atleast one Huge Desiel Generator that can run for months (as long as they are refueled every week or so)... I guess if things get to bad I can always bring my pillow to the office and atleast have a sustainable tempature... I don't think they'd mind just me, but I don't think they'd dig the family and 2 dogs...
I don't envy you. For a couple of days there's a novelty about it (kinda camping, roughing-it feel). ...and I must admit we ate like kings at first. (ie. had to eat all the ice cream, steaks in the freezer, etc) then the other perishable stuff, milk, bread, sandwich meat, etc. Knowing the Hurricane was coming (2 days), everyone ran to buy bags of ice. But me (thinking like Ponce) filled bowls full of water and put them in the freezer. So when the power went out, everyone else had bags of ice in ice chests that lasted a day, and I had my big blocks that lasted for 4 days. I know in your situation you couldn't have seen it coming, but if any of you have a big deep freeze, MAKE BIG BLOCKS OF ICE AND ALWAYS HAVE THEM READY. I do now. One thing I was pleasently amazed at, was how quiet it was without electricity, no hums of refridgerators, microwaves, TVs, radios, AC units. Just quiet. Some of the only sound there was, was the sound of the (more prepared neighbor's) generator humming in the distance at night. KEEP THAT IN MIND TO FOLKS, IF YOU HAVE A GENERATOR, EVERYONE KNOWS IT ...INTHE CITY. Just for the record, I'm better prepared now, and live in the country.

cb&julie | 07-21-2006 04:33 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Another consideration: I've been singing the tune of well-water on this board for awhile now and I don't seem to have gained any coverts. But, I'll try again. Well-water is available in virtually all areas of the country. Yes, I know you can't drill a well for a 5th floor condo in NY, or a row house down on Broad Street in Philly, but even standard suburban neighborhoods on 1/4 acre plots can have wells. The power consumption is very low and will certainly run on a generator but they also make solar kits for them now. With solar it wouldn't just help you when the power was out but all the time, taking that much off your normal utilities bill. For those of you who are serious about having water for a disaster like the one that started this thread or want to make sure you can still have it when the SHTF this is the best possible solution. Think about it!

Wyldwil | 07-21-2006 04:49 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Nice, you'll be ready to move to Florida soon....:wink: Good luck, stay safe...

bjgnome | 07-21-2006 04:50 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Quote:
Originally Posted by silverJeep (Post 306736) Knowing the Hurricane was coming (2 days), everyone ran to buy bags of ice. But me (thinking like Ponce) filled bowls full of water and put them in the freezer. So when the power went out, everyone else had bags of ice in ice chests that lasted a day, and I had my big blocks that lasted for 4 days. I know in your situation you couldn't have seen it coming, but if any of you have a big deep freeze, MAKE BIG BLOCKS OF ICE AND ALWAYS HAVE THEM READY. I do now.
I do the same thing down here in the Hurricane State. It is actually more efficient to have empty space in your freezer filled with blocks of ice than air, as when you open the door, cold air escapes, while blocks of ice stay put.

P-99er | 07-21-2006 04:55 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Consider that your situation is somewhat local, with resupply available within a reasonable amount of time. If it gets disasterous, you can at least bug out and drive an hour and find areas unaffected. Generators are bad in an urban environment. EVERYBODY wants you to keep their perishables, and take care of them and their needs, hot showers and baths, and enjoy your air conditioning. And when normalcy returns, they don't forget that you didn't fulfill their every need. Not to mention those who will hear it running and try and take it. I saw it happen to a friend of mine when an ice storm shut Membabwe down. Imagine if it was nationwide without any reasonable expectation of resupply.

Ponce Cuba | 07-21-2006 05:16 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Multiply Smullen by one million in a large town and you will know what will happen...... it cost less to be ready now than later. When the power goes out here I simply pull out one of my three generators and ......voila, I am on line.

AMforPM | 07-21-2006 05:19 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order How miserable in this heat wave! We got a small generator after Katrina, but are planning on adding a dual fuel natural gas/ LP gas whole house model later in the year. The little one would keep the fridge and freezer and 1 room cool, plus a few lights on, but only as long as we had gasoline. Our natural gas has never been out, and we can store a pretty long term supply of LP in a big tank. I have thought about the generator noise. We took care of an elderly aunt and I think in a crisis I would put our door notices about handicapped resident on oxygen back up. That gives a reason for a generator other than 'this house has the goods.' There was some construction on the block when she was with us, and when they cut power to do work, those notices meant we got realistic estimates of the length of the outage. Good luck in the heat. It will help your planning a lot having gone through this.

Book | 07-21-2006 05:42 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Generator noise will only be a magnet for Trouble after three days. After three days the have-nots lose that thin veneer of Civilization. Might as well grill steaks upwind of the starving. :Sorry: [always keep a low profile among the needy and desperate]

REV127 | 07-21-2006 06:52 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order I like batteries and even solar panels on the roof and out of sight in an urban environment. Besides, the solar panels will last longer than supplies of gasoline. Just install a secondary 12v system or go offline entirely. As far as cooling your house goes, back in the old days in FL before all the riffraff moved in people would have a vent through the ceiling and vents through the floor. The hot air escapes through the roof, drawing up cool air from under the house. I have this working in my place, combined with a few shade trees it is perfectly liveable in the summer without air conditioning. Hunger makes people desperate. Starvation makes people really weak. Eat your canned and bland food that doesn't involve cooking smells first. For that matter, only use lights inside your house in blacked out rooms, or use electric lights designed to flicker like candles. Sooner or later the zombies will cease to be a problem. Pepper 1lbs fogger units and grenades are great for crowd control.

Book | 07-21-2006 06:58 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 306857) I like batteries and even solar panels on the roof and out of sight in an urban environment. Besides, the solar panels will last longer than supplies of gasoline. Just install a secondary 12v system or go offline entirely. As far as cooling your house goes, back in the old days in FL before all the riffraff moved in people would have a vent through the ceiling and vents through the floor. The hot air escapes through the roof, drawing up cool air from under the house. I have this working in my place, combined with a few shade trees it is perfectly liveable in the summer without air conditioning. Hunger makes people desperate. Starvation makes people really weak. Eat your canned and bland food that doesn't involve cooking smells first. For that matter, only use lights inside your house in blacked out rooms, or use electric lights designed to flicker like candles. Sooner or later the zombies will cease to be a problem. Pepper 1lbs fogger units and grenades are great for crowd control.
Attachment 17077 These put the light only where you need it and are very simple. Keeping a low profile until the zombies die off is very good advice.

GREENSILVERHORN | 07-21-2006 08:00 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 (Post 306857) I like batteries and even solar panels on the roof and out of sight in an urban environment. Besides, the solar panels will last longer than supplies of gasoline. Just install a secondary 12v system or go offline entirely. As far as cooling your house goes, back in the old days in FL before all the riffraff moved in people would have a vent through the ceiling and vents through the floor. The hot air escapes through the roof, drawing up cool air from under the house. I have this working in my place, combined with a few shade trees it is perfectly liveable in the summer without air conditioning.
I'll have to find the link, but I recently came across an evaporative cooler that runs on solar panels, for those who live in drier desert areas. Ofcourse all this is for comfort, but you may need this in the face of whats waiting outside your doors. I'm in Las Vegas so it has become a project of need for me. A word on generators can be made to run indoors (silently) or enclosures if vented properly. I figure if the water stops pressure I can pump it out of the system from my side, natural gas to boil and generate.

Ghost Recon | 07-22-2006 07:55 AM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Besides canned goods and freezdried #10 cans, I bought 6 cases of Mountain House Pro Packs (foil pouches) and a case of Mtn Ovens. I can have a hot meal any time, any where. I don't need a stove or fuel or even matches. Buy a bunch of plastic spoons and forks and your all set.....

Ponce Cuba | 07-22-2006 08:31 AM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Let them see my lights, let them see my running tv, let them hear my radio....... I refuse to hide from anyone and if someone wants to rock and roll I'll play the music :musicus:

electric-amish | 07-22-2006 08:59 AM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Smullen I was thinking about how you were doing. I have to tell you every thing he said is correct. Living in St. Louis area right now is no pick-nic. St. Louis where I live as well has 500,000 out of power. I work at a large Hardware store and can tell you first hand there are battery shortages. D cells go ST. Couldn't find them in or near the affected areas. ND day C cell batteries were gone. Best prep Item I have is LED headband light--hands free. GET ONE. Smullen has a good list going as far for the rest. Generators were gone with in 1 hr. second truck load of 118 gone within 1 hour of receiving them. Getting 600 in from 10:30 last night till 6AM this morning they will be gone by noon. I have picked up many tips here on GIM that are workable and have not been needed by myself yet.People I work with need Water Purifiers or Bottled water on hand. Cash is King. Credit Systems are out and not communicating about 1/2 of the time. On the whole we are blessed to have a major cold front move Thur and cool things significantly. God Bless and thanks for the Survivalist Ideas I gleaned here. Semi Electric-Amish

Wyldwil | 07-22-2006 11:05 AM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 307232) On the whole we are blessed to have a major cold front move Thur and cool things significantly.
You are also blessed that this didn't happen in the dead of Winter. Or it would have given that term new meaning.....

smullen | 07-23-2006 11:59 AM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 307232) Smullen I was thinking about how you were doing. I have to tell you every thing he said is correct. Living in St. Louis area right now is no pick-nic. St. Louis where I live as well has 500,000 out of power. I work at a large Hardware store and can tell you first hand there are battery shortages. D cells go ST. Couldn't find them in or near the affected areas. ND day C cell batteries were gone. Best prep Item I have is LED headband light--hands free. GET ONE. Smullen has a good list going as far for the rest. Generators were gone with in 1 hr. second truck load of 118 gone within 1 hour of receiving them. Getting 600 in from 10:30 last night till 6AM this morning they will be gone by noon. I have picked up many tips here on GIM that are workable and have not been needed by myself yet.People I work with need Water Purifiers or Bottled water on hand. Cash is King. Credit Systems are out and not communicating about 1/2 of the time. On the whole we are blessed to have a major cold front move Thur and cool things significantly. God Bless and thanks for the Survivalist Ideas I gleaned here. Semi Electric-Amish
Our power is finally back on.... Came on late last night... Still alot of people are out around here... Some of my friends about 3 blocks away are still out, my sister over by the airport is out, and some friends in South County/Affton area are out... On Ameren's page, they have a button you can click for a map, then on the left, you can pick the zip code and see how many are in that zip code and how many of them are out... http://www.ameren.com/Outage/ADC_RS_StormCenter.asp Alot of area gas stations are still either closed, partial closed , out of gas or over an hours wait... Food and water shelves at all the stores are still bare... I heard from a lady I know that the banks and ATMs were not giving out cash/withdrawls, you could only make deposits... Thats kinda scarry....

smullen | 07-23-2006 12:07 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyldwil (Post 307305) You are also blessed that this didn't happen in the dead of Winter. Or it would have given that term new meaning.....
I fully agreee... I just mentioned this to a friend yesterday... We were talking about buying Generators... He said, ahh, I don't think I can spend the money... I mean how often do we lose power and its only been a few days... Not that Bigga deal.. I said, well its only been a few days and look at the mess its made of everyones daily routine, look at the food we've all already lost... What if it was like Katrina or what if it was dead of winter??? It would make for some real cold sleeping and your pipes could freeze and bust... As soon as I get the cash saved up and do some research, i'm going to get the best one I can and figure out a fuel store for atleast 50 gallons... I told him, You make more than me, so if you don't buy one and power goes out again, you can only stay with me, if you can provide fuel to keep the Generator going or something else I think we need...

Atahualpa | 07-23-2006 02:00 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order One of the reasons (main reason is recreation) I bought a motorhome and installed solar panels is in case of an emergency. RV's are set up to operate from multiple power sources...220/110 shore power, 12v, generator, propane, and solar panels with inverter/battery charger. Shore power, generator, or solar panels will charge the battery bank and allow you to operate on the 12v system. The 12v system will power your water system, refrigeration w/propane, ventilation and or heating w/propane, lights, etc. My rig hold 90 gallons of diesel with a range of over a 1000 miles on one tank...my next project is to set it up to run on biodiesel made from waste oil. Also it hold 70 gallons of fresh water, 194 pounds of propane (60 gallons). I keep my rig ready to go...all I do is fill up the fresh water tank and fill up the refrigarator...I keep the pantry stocked with non-perishables and the rig is equipped with all its own household items (utensils, pot and pans, towels, paper products, etc.) in addition to tools, parts, and camping equipment in the basement storage compartments. I had to part with a good chunk of gold to buy it, but the gold was just sitting there doing nothing...now the motorhome is sitting in my driveway with its mouth open saying pour more money here! haha

TheSimpleton | 07-25-2006 03:04 PM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Methinks storms are a good thing. Only then do we realize what life is about and where the holes are in the boat. Generators, indoors, probably run quietly: http://utterpower.com/ 100 year service life, no plugs, no parts, biodiesel ready, most fuel efficient available. Batteries: http://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...S&Category=228 Among others. They're running up over 12000mah now, which means a 12v stack is 12ah--as much as a battery jumper box. That's a fair piece of power. Might like this too: http://cgi.ebay.com/Briefcase-Solar-...QQcmdZViewItem (Search eBay: Briefcase solar) Portable, but no comparison to a real array. Caravans are of course the best contained system, and conventional-seeming, but if you're a long-term tent camper, probably you're prepared. One thing I think people would like is a stack of small and large Propane bottles. Generators to me are a major #1 no-no. Besides sleeping with them, they need watching, gasoline, maintenence, and attract attention. The service life of most is zip. A week's outage back when used the entire $3,000 value of most of them and they needed a rebuild. That's pathetic. Others were quickly in overheat-land or started to burn oil so you couldn't leave them. Running a power station is different from firing one up for an overnight. Different technical specs. Even a tractor might not like 24-hour use at rpm. Might be better off with a whole-house UPS, which will kick in automatically even if you're not there. Solar/propane fridges and freezers: http://www.partsonsale.com/products.html#anchor957558 Solar components that can be used for whole-house UPS: http://www.outbackinverters.com/croctough.htm Also Caravans are weakly built and are mostly junked at no value. Their components, ie, propane fridge, stove, inverter, tanks, etc, are then bought on the cheap, ready-made. Somewhere near you somebody has one that's on blocks. Oh, and a wood stove isn't a bad idea, since that can run forever. Good luck with St.Louis, and may it happen to us all more and more often so we can make a seamless transition into the brave new world of endless emergencies. TS

AMforPM | 07-27-2006 02:41 AM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Quote:
Originally Posted by GREENSILVERHORN (Post 306893) I'll have to find the link, but I recently came across an evaporative cooler that runs on solar panels, for those who live in drier desert areas. Ofcourse all this is for comfort, but you may need this in the face of whats waiting outside your doors. I'm in Las Vegas so it has become a project of need for me. A word on generators can be made to run indoors (silently) or enclosures if vented properly. I figure if the water stops pressure I can pump it out of the system from my side, natural gas to boil and generate.
It is hot enough to kill here sometimes too, and marginal for evaporative, but I think I'll add one for the days they work ok. Humidity is in the evaporative range a good bit of the time. We are going to put the big generator in a vented enclosure that muffles sound in the converted garage that is now a laundry - storage room. But it sure gets quiet when the power is off, so I do not count on people not hearing so much as a fan. The whole house fan pulling under house air is a good idea too. I lived in a house with that system once and it was plenty cool at night though not so great on a really hot day. (in that house) If I get to the stage of planning to get some solar panels in before things get bad, I will use the evap days when I can, the 1 room refrigerated air when I must, and the whole house fan nights to conserve power. I'm thinking to black out windows that can be seen from the street too. I put in an 8 foot fence edged by 14 foot bamboo years ago to give us privacy for part of the yard on the sides and back of the house(and hiding windows). That was really just for aesthetic enjoyment. It feels nice to relax in a private green space. The fence is now covered in evergreen flowering vines, and it is lovely out there. It is sad, but I think infrastructure is becoming so at risk that a house that provides its own water, power, and sanitation is a very good idea. Roof water collection is very easy to set up, and if you don't use the flush toilet, it is easy to store plenty for cooking, washing, etc., even in deserts. It takes a huge tank and more rain than deserts get if you want to plug your tank in to the regular house system. Our emergency toilet substitute is the potty chair left over from caring for our dying aunt. Liquids would be poured out as fertilizer and solids dumped in a 'doggie doolie', an inexpensive item designed as a primitive septic system for people to put their dog's feces in. So we would have water and sanitation. The roof collection tank will be up against a house wall in the not visible from the street part, with a pipe and faucet inside where we can draw a bucket and purify it for use. If things go along well for a long time, we will likely enclose it in a shed both to keep the sun off it and make it less noticeable.

AMforPM | 07-27-2006 03:43 AM
Re: Wake Up Call Big Storm - Wide Area Power Outtage, Water Boil Order Simpleton, I love the utterpower site. Thanks! Quote:
100 year service life, no plugs, no parts, biodiesel ready, most fuel efficient available.
His a/c page says Quote:
Let's not air condition places we aren't living. Short of wearing space suits, the next best thing is window units. They condition the areas where we are, not where we may go. They are a simple method of sequencing, taking little bites, instead of one big one.
We did not go with central in this house when we bought it over a decade ago, and everyone we knew thought we were nuts. But our power requirement is SO much lower. Now, they have their thermostats on 80 summers and 60 winters an electricity bills 3 times ours while we are icy in summer and toasty in winter. We climate control the space we are in. Only if you have a large enough family to need to climate control most of the house does central make sense. It wastefully loses a lot of its output in ducts, for starters, and climate controls a lot of rooms with no one in them. We get the most efficient units on the market any time we need a new unit. It has worked out very well for us. I may get one of those diesels instead of the gas unit. The big advantage of the gas unit is that in no disaster so far has gas gone off, and I can store a lot of it pretty easily. Even in Camille, the killer hurricane before Katrina my relatives lived through 3 blocks from the beach, the natural gas stayed on. But I had an old diesel Farmall tractor once, and I love those old sturdy diesel engines. I could probably store a lot of diesel too. An ordinary person can repair those old diesels. You don't even need a book. It is right in front of your eyes.

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