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- - Essential Survival Skills (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=34366)

money matters | 04-20-2006 01:10 AM
Essential Survival Skills Do you know how to cook? Know how to preserve foods by dehydration, canning, or jerking and smoking? Know how to pack and rotate your foods for maximum storage life? Know about storing Brown Rice rather than white? How to make your own granola, breads, cakes and the other staples of everyday living when restaurants are no longer open, or are too risky to frequent? Can you make a fire when it is raining? Can you make a fire without matches? (If you have a welder's sparker and some spare flints; you are ahead of the learning curve.) Everyday living and the continuation of what we want for ourselves and the loved ones we are responsible for might be the real topic of this thread. For some, the city might be survivable. Many in the suburbs might be able to do very well. Out in the country, you are likely to have the best opportunities, IF you are prepared for the work they will require. Many Americans seem to expect a coming MegaChange Scenario. Collapse of some kind from many variables. Not all these people are "doomers", but many seem to have instinctive insight and realization. Two years ago, here, I witnessed what God gave me to tell. What a Blessing to have more time for preparations! Especially the Spiritual Reliance kind. The longer you can stay dry, warm and well-fed and nourished; the better the odds of your adaptation or survival. One thing I will preface this discussion with is this: I think anyone who expects to be able to put off making Preparations until after their Silver or Gold has appreciated to astronomic numbers has a fool for a client. The real key to the future and meeting "challenges" has got to be flexibilty and adaptability. If you are "bugged out", can you go relocate or go mobile? Do you know how to cook with the foodstuffs you've stored? Can you make do with less if some of your stuff is lost, somehow, anyhow? It is pretty easy to understand that you don't want to be shot or burned out of your home. Yet, are you as prepared for a wildfire as you are for a firefight? Can you use a file, punch or hammer and hacksaw to make tools out of junk metal? Can you look at an alternator and see a way to make electricity? Can you take a couple lengths of steel pipe and make a sandpoint to tap a water source? Likely, with energy prices exploding; if you have "extra money" or "plenty of PMs" you'd be better off investing in solar panels or a windgenerator and some Trojan 6v batteries with an inverter. You can install what you have for mobility. Who Really Knows? Most people's Biggest Asset is their home. Yet it may turn out that having AE and other gear for Self-Sufficient living will be your real wealth in the not-to-distant future?

money matters | 04-20-2006 01:25 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills What comes to my mind are these topics or categories: Durable cookware and utensils Heating and cooking with wood; also getting hot water Making your own electricity Basic tools for fabrication Homeopathic and other natural remedies and home medical treatment Food Storage and basic grain menus Home sewing repair and fabrications Durable outerwear Using natural materials and foods Hunting and Fishing and other food gathering Gardening and sprouting Energy conservation Self Protection and vigilance Outdoor Living Eqpt Cast Iron Cookware and indoor hearth cooking Knives and sharpening; making them too Shortwave and UHF radios Nuclear survival skills and sheltering in place Soapmaking Animal Butchering and processing Things for Barter Firearms, Gunsmithing and Reloading Compass and Mapskills Know your Neighbors How not to be seen in the woods Trapping for fur and food The Mother Earth News Karla Emory's Guide to Country Living Books for Reference and entertainment Musical instruments? The BugOut bag and how and when to use it Wartime survival and living "underground"

AgAuGal | 04-20-2006 02:02 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Thanks MM for your input on this topic. You appear to have personal experience or at least have given it a lot of thought. There is so much to know and so little time. Challenge is prioritizing what to expend energy, time and $ on. :stickyman AgAuGal

Prometheus | 04-20-2006 02:23 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills While brown rice is better health wise, I thought that because brown rice still has the actual germ on it that it's bad for long term storage and thats why enriched long grain is prefered. I have read many places that no matter how well packed in a deair mylar back with O2 absorber that brown rice will go bad long before white. I likethe posts so far, let me add buy the right books now to read later even if you can't read them and pratice now and... the right tools will make all teh difference. If you don't have pots and pans, making dinner is going to be very difficult. Same thing with getting firewood if you don't have an Axe, hatchet, saw, sharpening stones and a few backups. I am far from ready prep wise, but I hope to get away soon and have some place I can stockpile stuff. Now I can only load two cars and hope to make it before it all goes south. That sucks.

Ponce Cuba | 04-20-2006 02:33 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills MM? hell guy at my age you would come more handy than a woman, would you be my companion?......I can have the preacher here in ten minutes :birthday: :haha: :ARMS1:

90%RealMoney | 04-20-2006 02:49 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills I have been picking up items, little by little, for the past few years. You'd be surprised how many things you will need to have an ample supply of. The other day, I picked up boxes of the strike anywhere matches, multi pack of dental floss, on sale at costco, bulk jug of antibacterial soap. If you get a few things every time you go to the store, it really adds up, and gives you at least a small sense of well being, just knowing that you're getting more and more prepared. I'm sure most people don't even have a weeks worth of supplies. It's gonna get real ugly, if and when TSHTF!

money matters | 04-20-2006 04:41 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Prometheus, Several months ago, we opened a bucket of Organic Short Grained Brown Rice I had packed in 1995. It was in very good shape, we ate it over the months that followed. I realize that 10 years, closer to 10.5 actually, is not LONG time, but golly. I did not use any mylar bags or 02 absorbers; just filled a Sherwin Williams bucke almost to the top with rice and added some Bay Leaves and Dry Ice chips. I would not compromise on food value, at least not at this stage of the game. For long term food storage, every bean except Pintos will combine with rice for a complete protein. That means you stretch your meat, fish and eggs out longer. Learn to season and cook Red, Black, Navy, Garbanzo, Adzuki, Anasazi beans and they will almost be as satisfying as a steak. Black Soybeans are pretty tasty, but plain ones are pretty dull; yet they make good Tofu and other protein sources. Fried Tofu, like in a wok is really excellent. There are Wheat derived meat consistency dishes also. The point is, if you can't shop; you will have to live on your storage. Brn Rice, Wheatberries, Oats, Corn Meal and also Grits and CousCous can give you a varied source of whole grains, are cheap, and store really well. If you learn to prepare stirfry meals, you will use less meat and have better vegetable food value. If you own a pressure cooker you can cook faster and keep even more food value; in addition to being able to can some foods. You can store about 35 lbs of whole grain in one 5 gallon bucket. Cooking oil is another essential. Sesame oil is high priced, but gives oriental food much of its tasty flavor. Maybe you have a Chinatown grocer that sells all the bulk chinese stuff? I would look for soy sauce and sesame oils there. Buy as much as you can in bulk. You are going to want lots of spices and condiments to make plain foods interesting, at least until you get used to them. A good wok can do a lot in the kitchen. Good cast iron skillets, dutch ovens and griddles also. I would only buy cast iron stuff made in America; Lodge, Wagner etc. Some foreign stuff has led in the iron formula. Same way with Mexican painted pottery. Aluminum cookware is not as desirable as stainless steel. It has some health issues. Cast iron actually puts some iron into your diet which is beneficial. You might also want to load up on Multi vitamins. Even cheap ones are better than nothing. In situations of stress and different diet, these could be very important.

Book | 04-20-2006 10:37 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Quote:
Do you know how to cook? Know how to preserve foods by dehydration, canning, or jerking and smoking? Know how to pack and rotate your foods for maximum storage life? Know about storing Brown Rice rather than white? How to make your own granola, breads, cakes and the other staples of everyday living when restaurants are no longer open, or are too risky to frequent? -money matters
This will be the "pickup line" that every young man will be using in Nightclubs reeeeeeeel soon. Girls Gone Wild will be a historical comedy film about a cruel NWO social experiment gone tragically wrong... :cheerful:

Tn...Andy | 04-20-2006 10:52 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters Do you know how to cook? Know how to preserve foods by dehydration, canning, or jerking and smoking?
Tell ya what most people don't have.....enough canning jars and lids. I inventoried mine the other day moving some things around and we have about 50 cases ( 12/case ) of quarts and 10 or so of pints. I figure you need at least one quart jar per person per day for a year to last from one canning season to the next.....more wouldn't hurt, but that's a minimum.......that's basically 30 cases per person to store a year's food. Been buying a case or two here and there as we go to the store or Walmart.....they run about 9-10 bucks that way....but I found a local hardware store where I can get pallet of 50 cases for 8.29/ea, so I'm picking up a pallet of them next week. That will give me 100+ cases and should be enough for two of us for more than a year. Then don't forget the lids. I get them at Walmart, wide mouth 36 boxes/12 lids to a case for 1.89/box

money matters | 04-20-2006 11:09 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills You ARE What You Eat Food storage and knowing how to use it is really The Essential survival skill. What I am really discussing is Everyday Living and being able to continue to do so without major disruption for food hunting/gathering. Right now, you can go to a healthfood store and buy alfalfa seeds, mung beans and other Sproutable Seeds. Sprouts are cheap, make tons of super high food value greens and grow quick. Worth buying and learning about. Wheatberries can also be used to grow Wheatgrass. Grow your own little plot of wheat and trim the grass eating it like salad or grind it for Wheatgrass Juice. An ounce or two of this at your local healthbar costs close to $5, so why not DIY? Easy and fun. If you have children, put them in charge of washing the sprouts and watering your little Wheatgrass plot. I also recommend going to your library and finding a basic introduction to Macrobiotic Cooking. Macrobiotics is a way of eating to promote wholistic healing. If you have any health "issues", Macrobitotics can be a way to enable your body to repair itself. Many have reported cancer recoveries by switching to Macrobiotic diets. Yet, for survival purposes; building up our immune systems and being able to use Whole Grain Food Storage works to our mutual necessity. You need to eat. Why not Eat Good and Healthful? In fact, a good Kitchen Reference is a must! Food gets mundane, if you cook it the same way, day in and day out. If you have a scanner; why not go to the library and checkout a bunch of recipe books and scan the recipes you like? You can find tons of them on-line. Granola, Yogurt making, Jerky marinades, How To Can Chicken and Meats. Learning how to make breads and deserts is well worthwhile. Do you really pay $3 for a loaf of crap-bread that has no food value and is full of hydrogenated oil poisons? Likely you do! Laurel's Kitchen is a great classic cookbook for breadmaking with wholegrains. Check your library. Library Resources is a thread all its own. Many people confuse BUYING THINGS, with Knowing How To Use Them. A ton of various beans, Wheat, Brown Rice, and spices will be next to useless if you don't practice cooking meals from the same ingredients RIGHT NOW! Now, is the time to begin your Survival Efforts. Eating good quality food, now; and storing it for the days ahead is more important than having almost anything else.

money matters | 04-20-2006 11:22 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills You are right Andy. Yet, most don't have a clue about even how to can. I admit, it is a skill I have not even tried yet. We have an assortment of pressure Cookers and jars, lids and seals. Have the Ball Blue Book, but have not put our own produce up. This time of year, you likely can find used canning jars at resale shops. Get em for about $3 a dozen. Lids and rings might turn up there too. Canning would be a very valuable skill you could use to preserve the contents of your freezer when the power goes; if you don't have a solar backup and inverter. If you can keep supplying some juice to a freezer, you can keep it going. They don't have to stay "on" all the time. Move your freezer to a corner of your garage, if it is cooler there. Insulate it. You can experiment with timers or turning it on every other day. Packed full, it will cycle the compressor less often. You can make ice in buckets or trays to take up empty space. Nice to have coolers (ice chests) because with a freezer and several ice chests, you do do without a refrigerator. The freezer likely costs less to run in terms of energy use, because it has no defrost cycle. Jars of all kinds will be valuable commodities. Canning jars most of all, becaue they are durable and optimized for storage.

Tn...Andy | 04-20-2006 11:34 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills We canned for 30 years.....it isn't that hard to learn....the Ball Blue Book is an excellent resource. But even with having done that, we've never used more than a few dozen cases of jars. One night I got to running the figures in my mind, figuring a quart of SOMETHING a day per person was about the minimum you could get by on, assuming you supplimented that with game, fish, fresh garden stuff, etc.....then when I looked at it that way, I thought "WOW...we haven't NEARLY enough jars !" You kill a whole beef ( or moose, elk, etc up your way MM ) and all of a sudden you have a PILE of meat to deal with.....without refrigeration, you're left with can, salt or jerk/dry........so you need a bunch of jars RIGHT THEN if you're gonna do that. What I already had was so I could do what you said.....can out the freezers IF the power looked like it was going to be down longer than I wanted to run a generator......and then I realized I needed about that many again. Off to the hardware store I'm bound.

TheSimpleton | 04-20-2006 11:38 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Thoughts: Root cellaring is an art. How to make them, how to store each item and rotate. No substitute for experience here. Pickle buckets. Easy to get now, hard to get later because everybody will need them. Oil boxes. Restaurants have cheap container fry oil comes in. Super, super cheap (and thin) but you'd love to have this to pour your grains, oils, gas, etc in. Oil is desperately overlooked. Do you have a cow or an oil press? Then get your oil as a priority. It's needed in everything and has multiple uses (hand lotion, lamps, etc) Plywood. After duct tape, the multi-purpose item no one will have. For instance, root cellars, window shutters, or MM's fallout shelter. Grain mills, for you and livestock. This could make you very popular in the neighborhood. Corn is useless (sort of) without pre-cracking it and you don't want to be out there with a log pistle. Wheat is worse than useless without a mill unless you REALLY like wheatgrass. Anyone know the word "quern"? Seeds. Food is giving a man a fish. You need to learn how to fish, and so do your neighbors. Fast. Being a local seed bloody warehouse probably wouldn't be enough. If you buy right, you can also have seeds that are edible, but it increases your costs considerably. This is a serious problem because planting a few acres would require a pallet of seed and most seed is unviable hybridized. In fact, forget oil. Make this your number one priority. With this you can buy oil. God almighty cannot make more seed without a season's delay. Seed saving. And perennial plants and trees. Home defense and sharing. If you have stuff, and your neighbors don't, their problem is your problem. If you know how unprepared they are then you understand the gravity of that. Stoves and fuel. "Wood" probably, but stoves are easy to get. It's fuel that's hard. Water, wells, cisterns and pumps. You won't believe how much time this takes unless you try living in a bucket. It might be easier to think of this as homesteading. What would you need to run a homestead in 1920? What were the former staples then, like lime? PS Where do you store all this stuff? Planning to 10 year's rice must take up half the house. TS

money matters | 04-20-2006 08:01 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills A root cellar can also be a fallout shelter, or tornado shelter; they have lots of uses. Gotta have them ventilated or you might get mildew or mold. No real "art" to it. Build one, and learn to use it.

Ponce Cuba | 04-20-2006 08:13 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Ponce <------ can't even boil water without burning the pot (which I did a month ago), have a ten quart (I think is ten) preasure cooker with all the bells and what ever but don't know how to use it and have no jars. Have food for four years and will be getting some seeds next, already have a big tiller for the land.....water by gravity and for free from a creek.

Tn...Andy | 04-20-2006 08:58 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills "PS Where do you store all this stuff? Planning to 10 year's rice must take up half the house." It does get to be a problem......I have a couple barns, numerous sheds, and 'other' places.

Ponce Cuba | 04-20-2006 09:37 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Lol Andy that's my problem, is not that I don't have the space but that I have to much stuff......thinking of building another 10X12 shed.

AgAuGal | 04-20-2006 09:49 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Taught myself to can. Not a big deal. The blue book is very good. For those that have not done it you will need more stamina then you may realize. Boy did I learn to appreciate the ladies of old real quick. Get a few extra jars cause when you share you don't always get them returned. A just a tip, for those that receive a gift of a canned food item, return the jar w/ the ring (lid can be pitched) unless you pay for the item.

money matters | 04-20-2006 09:52 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Food does require space and relatively moisture free environment for efficient storage. 5 gal buckets stack pretty good and are easy to handle. For inside, try 1 gal clear plastic jars. Ball makes glass ones, but they are heavy and breakable. Lots of deli operators will sell/give their surplus food buckets if you ask for them. Restaurant supply houses sell many types of bins and other gear you would like. We used to store our grains in the 50 lb sacks in metal garbage cans, but lost several bags over the years to mold from condensation. What a mess to deal with too. Thus the switch to 5 gal buckets and dry ice. Cheap and it works. It does not take too much room to store a ton of food. A big closet would do, although be hard to manage what you have without some room to find stuff. Volrath and Ecko Commercial make institutional size pots, trays, muffin tins. If you have an Outlet mall near to you, look for a Revere Wear store or other quality SS cookware dealer.

CrisCross | 04-20-2006 10:09 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills This man is asking about skills not how much food you set aside. Come on, skills people... When the worst comes, is so bad that I do not think you will sit in your basement (with your gold/silver/guns/food abd water nearby) and waiting. You will run AFAP with as much as possible. Once you stop, then your skills will come handy since those will help you to survive. For that you need to get food, water, safety. I think fishing is good (somebody mentioned here). Maybe learning about cures from plants for different problems (nobody mentioned medicine stockpiles-help yourself and others and become a greatand praised member of the pack). REMEMBER: SILVER HAS ANTI-MICROBIAL PROPERTIES and in principle can kill bacteria, purify water (to get clean water is a skill I think). Fire...good to know how to start. My wife is here, I have to gooooo.....:banana:

hoarder | 04-20-2006 10:34 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Thanks for the input and ideas, MM and Andy. I'm learning a lot from you guys. I've been stockpiling 6 gallon paint buckets with lids. I think for those of us who don't have cellars burying them might be viable. I was thinking of getting some 14" inside diameter black poly double wall culverts and sliding the buckets inside them. They could be buried on a hillside with the opening end slightly downhill. If they were buried 3 or 4 feet and put some 2" foam panel on top of them they should stay cool year round. The only thing a metal detector could pick up would be the bucket handles. One of these days I'll get around to all this. I think I'll store both white and brown organic rice, I like the brown much better. 50 pound bags of white rice are under $10 at Costco. I think they might be great trade items WTSHTF. People might not trade their fuel rations for fiat or even silver, but food....maybe.

money matters | 04-20-2006 11:01 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Chinese peasants buried their food stores so that warlords or maoists would not take all they had when they came through. Faulkner's Sartoris family was always burying or digging up their Sterling Silver. Hoarder, i think the buckets would do fine on their own if you buried them over gravel and sand. Consider using rope instead of the wire bales so metal detector wouldn't give them away. Mylar bags or vacuum packing might be a good idea before you packed each bucket. Ragnar Benson wrote a book on Survival Poaching. I never read it, but it was full of tips on things like luring game birds with grain, baiting and then shotgunning the lot, or trapping them in a cage. In fact, if you get your state's game laws, you might want to learn the techniques that are outlawed. Telephoning a farm tank or dynamiting a catfish hole etc. Real Easy to buy chicks from your feedstore and raise them for meat and eggs. They grow pretty easy, if you can keep dogs and racoons away from them. If you live in the country, might also want to have a game feeder. You can take a garbage can and make a couple of 8" slots about 5" from the bottom, on the sides; big enough so deer etc can put their nose in to feed. Fill that feeder with milo or a grain mix and train the game to come where you want them. Electric feeders with timer controlled motors that scatter grain are like a dinner bell when they cycle on. The animals come for the free eats. Better to have them on your land than someone elses. if you have room, consider putting in an above ground swimming pool and buying catfish or bream/blue gill to stock it. They are easy to feed and the water makes good fertilizer for your plants. Rabbits and Earthworms go together. Keep your earthworms under the rabbit cage and they will eat the rabbit pellets. Rabbit is good to eat, and earthworms will help your garden and composting. You might try hydroponics. I'm thinking of adding on a greenhouse. Skills come from doing, and obtaining self-confidence. If you like camping, the just being outdoors, you will not be phased for long if you find yourself having to relocate. Just not to a FEMA Camp!

Bugle | 04-21-2006 09:30 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills [QUOTE=money matters Ragnar Benson wrote a book on Survival Poaching. I never read it, but it was full of tips on things like luring game birds with grain, baiting and then shotgunning the lot, or trapping them in a cage. If you live in dry country having a pond attracts mega fauna. I have elk and deer come by to visit my ponds daily in the spring/summer/fall they all move to lower elevations in the winter though. I am going to be building a root cellar in the next couple of weeks. My plan is to find a metal utility trailer box put it in a hole on the side of a hill. I have two 8' X 12' flatbeds from trucks that I have had in the past. I will lay these accross the top of the hole just above the box and put the dirt from out of the hole over the top. These flatbed units will support 2-3 feet of dirt so as to not be crushing the utlilty box. I am still looking for the utililty box though. This is just a rough plan so it is subject to change of course. With a buried box of this type I would be able to have a locking door and a walkin entrance from the down hill side. The hillside is facing northeast so I won't have to insulate it as much as I would if it was facing south or west I'm thinking.

TheSimpleton | 04-21-2006 10:16 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills I've heard that's a wonderful storage idea, but root cellaring likes the moisture that dirt provides. Dirt absorbs and releases moisture, which steel, concrete, etc, won't. The art to it is just that: knowing which things like to be buried, which like to be shelved, what temperature, what moisture, which are wrapped in paper, what things are incompatible. Apples with vegetables, for instance. Carrots (wet) with grains (dry). Cold on the floor, warm above, and so on. It's not rocket science, but it would take a measure of time you might not have to get it right since the only feedback is loss of food. Since we're talking skills, you might look into the old sand hill storage. You lay cabbage or carrots or whatever on the ground (a pit would fill with water) cover with straw, then sand and dirt, leaving a chimney on top, say a small wooden box. This isn't great storage, but you preserve a lot anyway. It's visible and a lot of work, but when cold storage is full, it can be done with a shovel or front-end loader. You might also know about indian caching, where you'd dig a pit (in a dry place) and line with bark, parch the corn -often to black- and then toss it in and cover with bark and earth. Again, this isn't thrilling storage, and the seeds are now nonviable and single-use, but it's free and invisible. Similarly they used to braid and smoke corn. If you happened to have extra around, either from practicing growing, or what doesn't fit in a nice container, or from sharing with friends, you can fill things like 2-liters, milk and oil jugs, bleach bottles so on. They're very small and humble, but you can see they'd still be better than what your ancestors were used to. Use your head. It's simple. TS

hoarder | 04-21-2006 10:36 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Bugle, Those enclosed trailers are designed for light weight and would be easy to crush. The shipping cargo containers would be much better. Even then I think neither would be well designed for burial but if the material is stable enough laterally it might work with the roof support as you say. Try putting a raw egg in your hand and making a fist, it's hard to break an egg this way because of equal forces. It's easy to crush a box. That's why the corrugated galvanized culverts do so well. If you could find an 8' diameter culvert you would be better off.

wallew | 04-21-2006 12:38 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Andy, I'm BEGGIN YAH. Don't pay that $8+ a case for jars. ESPECIALLY 8 oz ones. You can get them at the packaging company for about half that. I generally pay about $.30 per jar and another $.03 per lid. And I ALWAYS buy extras. The worst part is trying to decide WHICH size is good for you. We have found it depends on WHAT you are canning. Eight ounces of tomatoes for a sauce is a good size. Eight ounces of jalapenos means we BETTER still have some form of refridgeration or it will spoil. But two quarts of soup is about the right size for two/four people. Depending on the soup. My wife makes LOTS of different kinds. We just got an eight oz jar back from her mom. She had stuck it WAAAY back in her cabinets and then forgot about it. So we will see how good my wifes soups taste, two years later. Properly canned of course. And eight ounces of soup is ONE CUP, which makes a great snack, but is not nearly enough for a real meal. Add some pasta (to her minestrone) or rice (to her SW Chicken Tortilla) and you HAVE a filling meal with LOTS of good protein and energy. SO, consider getting those jars from a CHEAPER source. Of course, you might be too far away from a large city to make this viable. Then consider an internet purchase. The costs go down, but of course, the shipping goes up. If you pay more for shipping than you would pay for taxes, it's probably too much. At least that's my rule of thumb.

Tn...Andy | 04-21-2006 12:45 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Wallew....was picking up case here and there......until I decided I needed about 30-40 more cases.... Then I got online.....best price I could find was about the same as local....8.75ish with shipping.....that does cut out the local sales tax, and make it a better deal.....then I found that local hardware store that has wide mouth quarts for 8.28. Even WITH sales tax, that's my best bet. You got a cheaper source, I'm all ears !

wallew | 04-21-2006 03:08 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Andy, Here is ONE of the companies I used in the past. It's Ryco Packaging and is nation wide. They have an offices in Kentucky or Chicago as well as Denver. Here is their web link - Ryco Packaging BUT according to my sales lady, prices have gone up due to fuel costs. Also they quit carrying the straight sided 9 oz jars I like. SO if I want them I have to order a pallet, which I THINK is 144 cases. A bit much for me, but I MIGHT be able to split this with one or two people locally. My last purchase from them was 30 cases for .385 per jar, with a 12 count per case which came out to about $4.65 per case... Then caps were .065 per cap. Two years ago I spent around $270 with this company. LAST YEAR I didn't hardly can anything because the berries and fuit looked SO pitiful. Hopefully this year that will change. So check the website. The other company I use didn't have a sales person in to give me any answers. The lady who answered the phone didn't even know if they had a website, so I'll post more when I get my call back. Having said all this, hey, if it's local and you use what you are buying, try 'haggling' with the owner or GM. You might be surprised as they may be willing to come down on their price. BUT generally speaking your 'haggle' has to start out with, "OK, you have 'X' number of cases. I WANT ALL OF THEM (most important sentence in this haggle). But I was hoping we could discuss the price. Especially because I'm taking them all off your hands. RIGHT NOW, CASH (shows you are serious - and CASH works wonders in place of a credit card that costs them 3% of the sales price). Hope that helps. jim

Dude | 04-21-2006 03:32 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew Here is their web link - Ryco Packaging BUT according to my sales lady, prices have gone up due to fuel costs. Also they quit carrying the straight sided 9 oz jars I like. My last purchase from them was 30 cases for .385 per jar, with a 12 count per case which came out to about $4.65 per case... Then caps were .065 per cap.
Great price - and here in Houston, too. I think I will give them a call. Thanks Wallew.

money matters | 04-22-2006 02:59 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills I don't know that canning can really compare to freezing. Seems like we decided to freeze Roma tomatoes and other produce rather than canning it because cooking it twice degraded the food value. I have seen comments by people that can their own butter. I even have tin cans, lids and a sealing tool out in the garage. Seems like a good way to preserve .22lr ammo and break up some of those bulk cartons of cheap-o .22 ammo. . Another thing I have begun doing is buying stuff in the bulk cans, easier to cook a large batch of stuff that way, or you can can the leftover you didn't use and beat the price of buying 28 or 15 ounce cans. We can get S&W tomatoes in the 128 ounce can for about a dollar more than a can of Hunts tomatoes in the 28oz size. This is like getting 3 more cans for .30 cents each, and if we canned or froze the extras we are that much ahead of the game. You might even consider dehydrating stuff. Sun dried tomatoes are considered a delicacy. You can dehydrate tomatoes yourself, or buy them by the bushel when they are cheap. Something else we did was dehydrate oninons to store them. Buy a couple of sacks when they are cheap and slice them and dehydrate, they store very well in ziploc freezer or storage bags. Also, can't really see paying premium prices for Freezer bags over Storage bags. Unless you are going to clean and reuse them, the storage ones work fine for us. You can buy about twice as many for the same price. We even found a plastic wrap sealing machine at a resale shop. if you have bulk plastic, one of these can "make" bags for you. I used to buy roast when it was on sale cheap and when I had 4 or more, I would slice em up and marinate them overnite and then make jerky in our Excalibur Dehydrator. Some I still have from over 2 years ago. We quit eating beef because of mad-cow disease. Moose and caribou are plentiful enough around here. If you have a battery system and inverter, you will not have to worry about not having a freezer.

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Gold & Silver Forum - Essential Survival Skills

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MacGyver | 04-22-2006 03:05 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills You people are so terribly far ahead of the crowds that you have difficulties understanding just how far ahead you are. I dare to guess that 99% of the population in any western country is completely clueless. Some have a capability to adapt which can take them quite far, but even minimal preparations will take you so far ahead of the crowd that it's close to cheating! Systemic collapses are possible. It happened in the Soviet Union. But they were prepared! The official system functioned so bad that they had a lot of workarounds in place without knowing it. For example: *A black market. *Alottment gardening everywhere *Free housing and free heating for many! Crappy housing, but still housing. I recommend reading Dmitry Orlov for further hints. Extremely smart guy: http://www.survivingpeakoil.com/arti...soviet_lessons Edit: If someone got trough that text, then ask yourself: What would happen if a similar system collapse would hit the western world? Do we have any fallbacks? My humble guess is that we would see a significant reduction in population within a couple of months.

Ponce Cuba | 04-22-2006 04:27 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Thanks Mac, I read it a while back and it was better (and more applicable) the second time around.

AMforPM | 04-22-2006 07:22 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills We have godawful national leadership, but often very good skill sets at the community level. There are a lot of gardeners and even community gardens in my area, and small organic farmers, organic gardening clubs. The needed organization will be local, I think, and we just have to persuade the federal government not to mess things up too much. We have gardened, canned, raised hens, and know we can feed ourselves on our big double lot, including hen feed. Cash or trade would be for items not grown in this climate. We do not make clothing, but there are locals who do. Another trade item. I am not persuaded breakdown will be that severe, though it might. I foresee a big drop in standard of living and gardening mattering though. War, of course, could make it all much worse, and civil war is the worst of all. Ballots meaning so little lately raises that specter. If it gets that bad we would prefer to travel to being in a brother against brother situation. But if the public can peacefully persuade the government to stay mostly out of the way, communities can cope.

money matters | 04-23-2006 01:09 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Likely, the best set of Survival Skills have already been honed in those who have had to cope with day-to-day in this money based society. If you can live a life of moderation without paying money for everything you like to do; you probably have a better likelihood than most of coping with the uncertain situations we all will face. Knowing First Aid, how to use homeopathy, how to treat a deep cut or wound, splint a break, treat a burn, respond to a heart-attack; such Knowledge and the confidence to employ it is a great benefit. Ever take a CPR, EMT, Rescue, or Lifeguard course? Maybe you have a Merck Manual or Gray's Anatomy? Pretty hard to turn your home into a hospital, but babies have been delivered, and bones mended in tents. Just getting a blister on your feet, or a "rudimentary" infection could turn into a significant threat. Hygeine and sanitation are real issues. If food you have traded for came from a garden fertilized by human manure, that "food" could be contaminated and actually be more of a poison. Giardia, cysts, liver flukes, all sorts of parasites have been overcome by hygeine and proper food preparation. Some mode of processing water, even water that is coming into your home by city water service, will be needed. If you have intermittent electricity, so does your city/municipal water service. Muni water treatment takes chemicals and power, all city/utility services require stability and paid workers. Maybe these will remain in place; maybe not. Got some place to haul or get water from? Got buckets, containers? Can you clean, filter, and/or sanitize that water? Got plain hypochlorite bleach? The cheap stuff, like unflavored Chlorox or Purex Bleach? 8 drops "sanitizes and purifies" a gallon (or is it a quart? Google this up). If you leave the container lid open the bleach taste and smell will evaporate after it permaeates what is in the container. Got some extra "junk" linens? Like old towels or sheets? You can make filters from these. Maybe you can stack a couple of buckets, make a drip filter? Remove all the coarse dirt with towelling, other stuff with finer linen, then drip the rest through clean sand, *you can buy it in bags pretty cheap*, and maybe a layer of ground charcoal. Just knowing that you should/can Pre-Filter the water you plan to run through an MSR or Katahdyn water filter will extend the longevity of your portable water filter by a couple hundered percent, maybe years. Even just wrapping a bandanna or scrap of flannel around the inlet tube helps. Knowing how to extract clean and healthful water is a skill. Worth cultivating. What is the biggest Kettle that you own? The biggest pot which you could use to boil water? Do you have Dish Pans? Plastic bins that fit inside a kitchen sink? Know how to clean/dip/ and use a rack to drip dry? Don't laugh. Many people don't.

money matters | 04-23-2006 01:22 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Know how to sharpen a knife without ruining the edge? Scissors? They are trickier. Got a file and carborundum for your axe, files for the chain pitch on your chainsaw? Got coarse and fine Arkansas stones, maybe diamond hones, a sharpening steel in your kitchen? Know how to sharpen a saw blade? How to set the pitch? Got linseed oil so your tool handles don't get brittle and crack or break? How many of us "know" these things unless we work with the tools everyday? Not many. If you are going to rely on tools, you have to know how to maintain them. Good tools are in short supply. They cost too much to make these days, since the few manufacturers left see too little demand to produce enough to give economy of scale. How much is a Nicholson 10" file? Most you find are $4 or $5; and they come from India or China. Are they good? Do they work? Does it matter if you don't know how to use a file card, and don't take care of them? Tools to keep your basic homestead production gear working, Axes, Shovels, Pick, Knives, Saws, and knowing how to use them; are a must.

Dude | 04-23-2006 01:41 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills I did get an idea from this thread after some thought. This might help you think a little outside the box as a fisherman. When I take my vacations to Minnesota fishing territory, the big sport fish is walleye, as they are one of the best tasting. I do take northerns for smoking, as well as sunnies, crappies, and perch for table fare. Bass are tossed back, as well as bullheads. On several lakes I fish, there are always areas where I mark fish on the depth finder, cannot get them to bite, and can only guess as to the species. We've thought that most of the time they are suckers and carp. I'm going to pick up an underwater camera - now a bit over $200. Gonna find out what they are and develop a strategy to catch them and document their patterns. Note to self: Get a hand auger in case I do not have gas to drill ice holes with the power auger.

Ponce Cuba | 04-23-2006 01:54 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills For underwater camera go to "Sportsmans Guide" I got one for $250.00 I haven't tried out yet under water but above water it woks nice. About getting "prepared" after going to Cuba a few times and seeing what they are lacking the most that's how I got ready for the incoming disaster, the situation in Cuba is so bad that if you find a good nail laying on the street is like finding gold. "You will only find out what you will need when you see what others don't have"... Ponce

AgAuGal | 04-23-2006 02:38 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Good point Ponce. I think most of us will not realize what is truely valuable until things get bad. I think many of us (well hopefully not GIMers or they're not reading) will be surprised at what we thought was valuable. One thing I thought about was recipe books, so many people eat out/fast food now days these books might become valuable (I know not high on the list of priorities).

money matters | 04-23-2006 02:45 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Sorry, I think spending $200+ on an underwater camera just to find fish is pretty silly. Maybe extravagant is a better word. Spending money of high tech gizmos like a fish finding camera is questionable, unless you are tournament fishing or pursuing this for recreation. If you have decent snorkelling gear, why not just make or buy a fish-gig and go hunting? Better yet, buy a net and store up a 55 gallon drum of gasoline with that same $200? I think trying to correlate life in Cuba with life in Oregon is a pretty far stretch. If you aren't recycling old nails and boards; you either have too much money, or not enough ideas. Anybody who lives more than 20 minutes from a hardware store, likely has a stock of hardware: nails, screws, bolts, nuts, plumbing stuff. Things break, and usually after the hdw store closes. I don't know about Walleyes; but if you have some fishing line and a hook, you can bait a line hung from a sappling or a limb; you can make a trotline, you can make a minnow-trap out of some screen or mesh wire. Maybe you stock up on some Catfish food? Your feed store might have some? If you feed fish and lure them into a trap, you are harvesting them a lot more efficiently. Fish or animal guts will bait other fish or animals. Maybe you have bullfrogs and crawfish? Seems like I saw someone talking about eating garden snails. Escargot might be a bit different, but the only thing makes them delectible is garlic and butter. We used to have wild garlic at our place. Are you storing butter? Now a video security system to survey the approaches to your home and outbuildings? That could be of value. Especially if you have battery power and inverters to run it. If 12v, you might only need a large battery and a solar panel, if the panel had a voltage regulator on it. Then again, maybe you have a dog or two? High tech gizmos, unless you are a trained electonics technician with desoldering station and repair parts are a liablity. They encourage reliance on tech that keeps you from learning fish movement patterns, and when they break, they stay broken. Every repair a computer board? Ever do that at your home shop???? A horseshoe nail might once have saved a kingdom, but only in somebody's Steam-Punk fictional Road Warrior world, is a nail worth picking up off the street other than to make sure you don't puncture a tire.

MacGyver | 04-23-2006 02:46 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponce Cuba For underwater camera go to "Sportsmans Guide" I got one for $250.00 I haven't tried out yet under water but above water it woks nice. About getting "prepared" after going to Cuba a few times and seeing what they are lacking the most that's how I got ready for the incoming disaster, the situation in Cuba is so bad that if you find a good nail laying on the street is like finding gold. "You will only find out what you will need when you see what others don't have"... Ponce
This is very interesting! Please expand. I've heard about soap, razorblades and condoms making excellent barter, but nails..! That's interesting. Nails are dirt cheap right now. How about sewing needles? Thread?

MacGyver | 04-23-2006 02:50 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Quote:
Originally Posted by AgAuGal Good point Ponce. I think most of us will not realize what is truely valuable until things get bad. I think many of us (well hopefully not GIMers or they're not reading) will be surprised at what we thought was valuable. One thing I thought about was recipe books, so many people eat out/fast food now days these books might become valuable (I know not high on the list of priorities).
What I've heard from Argentina, PlayStation's seem to become valuable. Make some sense - Hollywood and circuses seem to have made it nicely trough the 1930's in the US. What about books for children? Could provide great distraction in troubled times.

Dude | 04-23-2006 03:23 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters Sorry, I think spending $200+ on an underwater camera just to find fish is pretty silly. Maybe extravagant is a better word. Spending money of high tech gizmos like a fish finding camera is questionable, unless you are tournament fishing or pursuing this for recreation. If you have decent snorkelling gear, why not just make or buy a fish-gig and go hunting? Better yet, buy a net and store up a 55 gallon drum of gasoline with that same $200? I don't know about Walleyes; but if you have some fishing line and a hook, you can bait a line hung from a sappling or a limb; you can make a trotline, you can make a minnow-trap out of some screen or mesh wire. Maybe you stock up on some Catfish food? Your feed store might have some? If you feed fish and lure them into a trap, you are harvesting them a lot more efficiently. Fish or animal guts will bait other fish or animals. Maybe you have bullfrogs and crawfish? Seems like I saw someone talking about eating garden snails. Escargot might be a bit different, but the only thing makes them delectible is garlic and butter. We used to have wild garlic at our place. Are you storing butter? Now a video security system to survey the approaches to your home and outbuildings? That could be of value. Especially if you have battery power and inverters to run it. If 12v, you might only need a large battery and a solar panel, if the panel had a voltage regulator on it. Then again, maybe you have a dog or two? High tech gizmos, unless you are a trained electonics technician with desoldering station and repair parts are a liablity. They encourage reliance on tech that keeps you from learning fish movement patterns, and when they break, they stay broken. Every repair a computer board? Ever do that at your home shop????
I do fish tournaments as an amateur with my fishing pro buddies and do fish recreationally, as I said in my post. So this purchase is not initially intended for survival. $200 is not a lot of money in my opinion these days. It's all relative. My point was there are tons of fish that are not targeted. Suckers and carp would be a fish to eat in survival situations and they are more plentiful in most Minnesota waters by a factor of 10. My $800 depth finder was money well spent 6 years ago. A little cheaper than the $2200 my buddies spend. Remember, I'm cheap - haircut twice a year. But I also spend $80 for a lacrosse stick and $90 for a head for my kids. I am in IT and do repair electronics at board level, if I really have to. If I cannot fix it in a survival situation, at least I will know their past patterns and know how to catch them. My Grandfather got through the Great Depression fishing without these tools. I fish the same lake.

money matters | 04-23-2006 05:12 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Dude, The teach a man to fish maxim has a lot of truth in it. Sportfishing and survival food gathering have nothing in common. There are many vehicles and tools (like fish finder/cameras) that might be useful to have. A Cessna 180, a Hummer, a Hatteras 45 foot Sportfisherman, all; if fueled up and maintained MIGHT serve your survival use, but once they run out of fuel or encounter a barricade, you have run out of luck. Mel Tappan asked the question of his subscribers, "Are you going to be playing the commodities futures right up until the moment the baloon goes up?" I think anyone who plans making their Great Escape from the city, once "the baloon goes up" is just kidding themselves. You might have ONE HOUR to get outa Dodge. After that, the freeways, toll roads and loops will all shut down. Is a bass boat a survival tool? Not like a canoe or Jon boat. How many guys own tons of guns, but no ammunition or reloading eqpt? ==LOTS== How many people never went camping or even hiking in the rain or Winter? ==MOST== Life today is a Blue Skies series 7 event. Most think it will remain so. Whatever you can't do, or provide for yourself; you may have to risk your life to acquire. Most "preppers" haven't even got the survival skills of Blanche Dubois. They too, "depend on the kindness of strangers". Likely, the people in Urban America who are most properly equipped to survive have already relocated, or are too poor to do so. The poor know how to cope and make do. Everyday is SURVIVAL for them. The relocated are already "there" wherever that is, and have escaped Phase 1 of the culling process; they saw something coming and got out of the way. The rich might have farms, ranches, vacation cabins to go to. They will last there until their money/wealth runs out, or they learn the skills of daily living. Many people have confused credit with wealth. Credit enables conspicuous consumption. Wealth is having means of supporting lifestyle, no matter what happens. If you, dear reader, have used your credit to prepare, you have shown an Essential Survival Skill. Over 2 years ago I wrote an article "Out of debt, out of the running". The gist was, don't use your cash to pay down your debt until you've provided for your family's survival. Your wife and children will not be ecstatic or thrilled when you tell them, "Well, we have no food in the pantry; but at least we don't owe anybody any money!" I would say that an Essential Survival Skill is knowing where to shop and spend your money to get the most for your dollar. Not everything "cheap" is a "deal". Very few new & latest gizmos are to be trusted, or maybe I am just old? I hate the idea of a Black Box on my vehicles. Don't want my transportation subject to being "turned off" by satellite. Knowing what your don't need is just as essential as knowing what you do. edited to add: Dude, if you know how to etch a board, how to read or design a schematic, how to populate the board with components and have the Digital Multimeter and other testing gear to make the Gizmo in question keep functioning; then my hat is off to you. Hope you load up on Silver Solder and component so you can keep your gear functioning. Yet, your remark about "at a board level" implies that you know how to change out a board. That is more than most know how to do, but is just basic Coping 101. I think anybody who says they are in IT Information Technology means that they serve some kind of data-base mining or entry function for their employer. Those skills are about as essential to survival as those of Comex Floor Trader. Not putting you down. Nice to make "good money". Hope you taught your sons how to fish and shoot, not just enabled them to commit mayhem on the Lacrosse field.

Veritas | 04-23-2006 05:46 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Maybe I missed it in one of these threads, but can anyone post a link or make any recommendations on some good "How To/What To DO" survivalist books? I'm looking for something comprehensive and thorough.

money matters | 04-23-2006 07:09 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills I don't know any current books. Nuclear War Survival Skills by Cresson Kearny is free at this and other websites: http://www.ki4u.com/free_book/index.htm. Ki4u has other lists and downloads, I think, and the guy has stuff for sale. You might find more by googling than by ordering books. A classic book put out in the late `70s early 80's was Life After Doomsday, by Bruce Clayton. He gets into other forms of disaster avoidance/planning and has a general introduction to Shelter, Communications, Food, Defense, Location, Social Situations. Clayton's book has some great maps and a set of scenarios that take one step and lead into another in a very interesting way. Mel Tappan wrote two books; Tappan on Survival, and Survival Guns. TOS is a compendium of a column he did for Guns and Ammo magazine. SGs is the most analytical overview of firearms in defense and foodgathering contexts. Tappan also had a newsletter for several years that has some excellent, though dated material. It has been republished several times and represents info from people in Rhodesia and other spots dealing with terrorism of the day, and columns by many experts including Jeff Cooper. Tappan died about 25 years ago. There are a number of how-to books for gardening, military survival and escape, wild food gathering, and Self-Sufficiency. Actually, Clayton's book is about the best introductory starting point. Depending on where you live and what resources you have, and what your health status is; your situation will dictate your own response to preparations. If you have ever read The Mother Earth News, been interested in gardening, hunting, fishing, camping, backpacking, homebuilding or are a fast-study; you will likely find your way. I would spend my time on Google listed webpages, and maybe look at the newsgroup misc.survivalism. Your library will have a number of books on Self-suffiency. I would look for Passport to Survival by Esther Dickey regarding food storage and mormon practices. A super book to own if you envision a rural relocation is Carla Emery's Encyclopedia of Country Living. The Foxfire books, back issues of The Mother Earth News are also nice reads. Good luck with your efforts

money matters | 04-23-2006 07:20 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Since Kurt Saxon coined the term Survivalism or Survivalist; the term has generally come to relate to preparations made to offset the impact of a systemic collapse of the social order or civilization as we know it. TEOTWAWKI, the end of the world as we know it. Nuclear War, Monetary Collapse, Civil War 2, Invasion/Occupation, Great Tribulation, Comet Fall, Class 5 Hurricane, Massive Flooding, Outbreak of Disease/Plague, etc. etc. I am sure I have forgotten one circumstance or two. Point is, if you are concerned, maybe even expect, that life as you know it could drastically change, and you have the wherewithall and ability to prepare so you and your family could remain solidly comfortable and functioning throughout the unknown circumstances; then you make preparations. Inflationary times usually show that food and other supplies for daily living that you acquire now, should nothing happen; will be less expensive today then in the future. If you wait until the situation making preparations necessary occurs, in the best scenario you will pay inflated or price-gouging prices at a time you will have many other out-of-pocket expenses like ins. deductibles and replacement items. If Worst case, waiting could mean doing without or, worse; losing your life because you put yourself into a dangerous situation trying to acquire "stuff". Preparation has intrinsic value and peace of mind, as well. Nice to have that oil tank full before the price of a barrel of oil hits $100. Nice to own firearms and ammunition before they are unavailable at any price. Nice not to have to go out before the hurricane hits for basics. Nice to have skills and materials to make what you need rather than do without.

Dude | 04-23-2006 07:32 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Sportfishing and survival have alot in common. I know certain fish. I will be expanding my knowledge on the common carp and sucker. I have the equipment to catch my limit and beyond. You cannot do it with a stick and a stick pin. This summer on my vacation, I will learn to catch the sucker and carp that nobody targets. Food, easy food. 4 lbs. average at a time. 10 fish a day easy, from what I estimate. Do that with your 20 acre garden, every day? I have a canoe as well. Changing out a board is child's play. I can repair a board, AS I SAID, it won't be necessary as I will have the SKILLS AND KNOWLEDGE to catch for survival. One boy loves to fish as a high school junior. The other is making $40 per hour part time (lacrosse referee) while going to college, and puts it into silver. Can life be so grand?

Ponce Cuba | 04-23-2006 07:39 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Money Matter? the only reason that I got the underwater camera is the same reason why I got the one man sub that will pull you under water at 3 mph, I like toys and I am lucky that I can afford them. Have 11 tv cameras and 7 monitors besides 8 driveway alert with two recievers........and a lot more. Every thing that you guys have posted I already have including a pile of lumber with roofing material and 25 gallons of paint. I would say that around 40% of the stuff that I have (not counting the $400.00 of trading struff from the $1.00 store) are brand new and never used. Hell, I am running out of space.

cb&julie | 04-23-2006 07:46 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponce Cuba Money Matter? the only reason that I got the underwater camera is the same reason why I got the one man sub that will pull you under water at 3 mph, I like toys and I am lucky that I can afford them. Have 11 tv cameras and 7 monitors besides 8 driveway alert with two recievers........and a lot more. Every thing that you guys have posted I already have including a pile of lumber with roofing material and 25 gallons of paint. I would say that around 40% of the stuff that I have (not counting the $400.00 of trading struff from the $1.00 store) are brand new and never used. Hell, I am running out of space.
Hey Ponce! I've wanted to say hi to for awhile. I'm new to posting but have read posts on here for weeks. Your stuff is great. Don't worry about all that extra stuff- it will put you in a fine leadership position once the phony leaders in Washington are burned up with their paper money.

Ponce Cuba | 04-23-2006 08:07 PM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Thanks Julie and welcome to GIM, that's why I have all that stuff. Always remember that "To be ready is not"... Ponce, meaning that no matter how ready you are you will always be missing something that you won't know you are missing till you need it and that's where my silver will come handy :love: </IMG>

Veritas | 04-25-2006 02:23 AM
Re: Essential Survival Skills Thanks for the post MM - some great stuff there!

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