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Canadian-guerilla | 07-18-2009 10:03 AM
design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat SHOULD THIS RETREAT SHOULD BE OFF THE POWER GRID ? basement / ranch style / multi-floor animals / crops / vegetables garage / greenhouse / barn what would be optimal acreage ? ( cleared or wooded/brush ) water on site if i was looking for a parcel of land one on my main requisites would be water on site and i would also have security in mind when looking at a piece of land not a big fan of basements, too many past problems with flooded basements maybe a separate root cellar for storage

Tallships | 07-18-2009 10:14 AM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat http://farm1.static.flickr.com/185/3...572098.jpg?v=0

Tallships | 07-18-2009 10:15 AM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat http://www.tonkinart.com/fortress%20...e%20clouds.JPG

barter | 07-18-2009 10:25 AM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat 1 Attachment(s) Attachment 75677 Swiss concrete bunker on the high ground with preps and companions. LOL.

Ragnarok | 07-18-2009 01:54 PM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Land - tens of acres, preferably with water if possible, trees and tillable fertile ground if possible. A well-built stone dwelling with metal roof and a basement if practicable. The basement contains the backup power system (vented generator, battery bank, inverter, etc.) and long-term food prep/fuel/water storage. A water well, with the water wellhead located somewhere inside the house, and a hand pump option. Photovoltaic panels on roof and several small wind turbines for power. Off-grid would be nice, but if on-grid, at least have backup power available. Built-in means to securely bar the windows and doors. Alternate air supply/vents/fans. Fire/smoke/burglar alarm(s). Now where'd I put that missile silo? R.

MetalMoney | 07-18-2009 04:09 PM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat A while back I remember reading an article about a guy that bought a missle silo site and built a home out of the silo. He got the site for some crazy amount like $50k with bunker thick amounts of concrete on each wall and a huge garage area ;).. The only real issue seemed to be the dimensions of the open space were awkward to build living spaces in. (Round silo shaped bedrooms with ladders or tight staircases between them). Seems like that would work out just fine for this group...

MetalMoney | 07-18-2009 04:11 PM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Not the same one, but this would work. Anyone loan me $1.5M? I'm good for it. http://boingboing.net/2007/09/26/tit...le-silo-f.html

wallew | 07-19-2009 11:55 AM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat A place to start would be this book, 'The Have More Plan' Amazon "The Have More Plan" by Ed and Carolyn Robinson. It was written in 1947. While this may seem out of day it is as pertinent now as it was back then. Maybe even more so. Hmmm, missle silo's... Here's a TITAN 1 missle site near Denver... That site has several others 'comm bunkers' from the east coast to the west coast. Most are underground, though one or two are above ground. ALL have wells, septic systems in place. Most have a large generator (though not all of them and definitely NOT the Titan 1 missle site near Denver).

Ag_man | 07-19-2009 12:59 PM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1824973) A place to start would be this book, 'The Have More Plan' "The Have More Plan" by Ed and Carolyn Robinson. It was written in 1947. While this may seem out of day it is as pertinent now as it was back then. Maybe even more so. Hmmm, missle silo's... Here's a TITAN 1 missle site near Denver... That site has several others 'comm bunkers' from the east coast to the west coast. Most are underground, though one or two are above ground. ALL have wells, septic systems in place. Most have a large generator (though not all of them and definitely NOT the Titan 1 missle site near Denver).
These comm bunkers and perhaps the old Nike-Ajax AA missile battery sites might be easier to rehab than ICBM silos.

Shasta Gold | 07-19-2009 01:43 PM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Cheyenne Mountain is no longer used; maybe we can buy it for the ideal retreat? http://www.aviationexplorer.com/NORA...n_Mountain.jpg

DC7 | 07-19-2009 02:37 PM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat 1 Attachment(s) I'd say a place that was 100% paid for.......... Access, being able to drive onto your property. Unpolluted. Water on your land.......... but not just from the water co....... YOUR water. I know alot of folks don't want too much land, cause they don't want to pay the price and taxes for land they won't use, but I'd go for a good amount of acreage, with trees. My hope is for at least 20 acres, but if you want space, you can go for 40 and have more trees and firewood. Where you come home and see deer tracks in your driveway. Neighbors are good, but I want privacy too. Somewhere a good distance from the next neighbor. Where when you here a car, you know they're visitors for you, cause there's no one else around. Where I can wake up and sit on the front porch in my underwear drinking a beer and enjoying your view of the woods. Where you can run a chainsaw, angle grinder, or generator at 2 am. Or blast your tunes. And shoot regularly. With no one too close to be bothered by any of this, except the wife and kids. I suppose a down side is your neighbors aren't gonna spot burglars or other problems on your property for you........ but I guess personally I just like my space enough that I'm willing to find other solutions. Being able to connect to the water and power grid, with the option of disconnecting when you choose, would be great. But in reality, finding a good amount of affordable land away from too many other people means you might have to do without the grid. Once you got this, the improvements like roads and buildings can be put in as you can afford if you don't have em........ this way you don't have to worry about someone showing up and wanting to take what's yours (well...... at least not some mortgage company). http://retrothing.typepad.com/photos...ollinoak_1.jpg If the land is yours, 100%, even if you just got a tent or a trailer, at least it's still yours. From there, when you build, you can start small with what you can afford, and build with how you'll expand in mind. Hell, if you got the trailer, maybe just start with a garage (maybe with a mom in law apt. above) or barn to put it in. It can be convered into living space later. Or build a home with only half the square footage under the roof as living space......... the rest could be porch or car port, to be converted to home later. A wood stove and lots of trees. Chickens. A garden, and deer to worry about keeping out of the garden....... and a good place to target shoot. Later, you can expand to something closer to your ideal. I'd say a basement is a priority, if your in an area that allows for it. A way to collect rainwater. A "Zero Energy" Insulated Concrete home, with a metal roof, would be great. Those are the plans and desires that come to my mind when I think about having some property.......... Ever heard of "F*&K You Money"? It's having some money put aside, so that whatever situation comes up, like a boss threatening to fire you over something, you've got the funds to say "F- You! Go ahead and do it". For me, I guess my dream is "F- You" property. Somewhere I can go and tell the world "F- You". There........ now I've done it........ you all got the goods to psychoanalize me and have me commited for being anti-social. Edit: I forgot to add, within 10 miles to town.... (don't have to be a big town, but groceries, hardware, gas.......). Heck, I don't wanna be completely cut off, except when I don't feel like going into town.

simplelife | 07-19-2009 03:43 PM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 1823589) SHOULD THIS RETREAT SHOULD BE OFF THE POWER GRID ? basement / ranch style / multi-floor animals / crops / vegetables garage / greenhouse / barn what would be optimal acreage ? ( cleared or wooded/brush ) water on site if i was looking for a parcel of land one on my main requisites would be water on site and i would also have security in mind when looking at a piece of land not a big fan of basements, too many past problems with flooded basements maybe a separate root cellar for storage
large creek would be nice for hydo power.

AGRO | 07-19-2009 03:46 PM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat I think this will do us all well http://www.indianchieftravel.com/fil...rmanCastle.png Remember this was built in Medieval times so all those "natural" aspects where in place.

mouse | 07-20-2009 01:54 AM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat We are looking to find a new living spot also and looking at much of the above. I don't think having a "safe" or impenetrable place is possible, but off the beaten path, enough land, water, and PAID IN FULL is a damn good start. Somewhere where the taxes are currently, and hopefully prospectively cheap. You can make a stand in a place like that, even without a career job. Certainly won't be easy, but can be done. Our house in Cali is for sale, wish us luck :) There will be a flood of reverse okie commuters coming soon from the west. We came to Cali from Okie and I didn't change my tags or license to cali, so if I head out in that general direction hopefully I won't have too much of a target on my back.

Tn...Andy | 07-20-2009 07:23 AM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Quote:
Originally Posted by AGRO (Post 1825233) I think this will do us all well http://www.indianchieftravel.com/fil...rmanCastle.png Remember this was built in Medieval times so all those "natural" aspects where in place.
Not medieval at all.....construction began 1869 by "Mad" King Ludwig who nearly bankrupt the State of Bavaria building extravagances like this....so he died by an "accidental" drowning. But a good example of how the practicality a building a working homestead can get off in the fantasy of survival retreat.....ahahahaaaaaaaa

Tn...Andy | 07-20-2009 07:28 AM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Quote:
Originally Posted by simplelife (Post 1825230) large creek would be nice for hydo power.
There are very few good hydro situations. Problem with many large creeks is unless you own thousands of acres of watershed on which they originate, someone either lives above you, and let's his cows crap in your water or the stream originates on public land, making it impossible for you to control access and use. Most water sources like this have already been claimed, and you're late to the party.

Tn...Andy | 07-20-2009 07:43 AM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Quote:
Originally Posted by DC7 (Post 1825155) I'd say a place that was 100% paid for.......... Access, being able to drive onto your property. Unpolluted. Water on your land.......... but not just from the water co....... YOUR water. Yep.....decent gravity fed spring on you place is very valuable. I know alot of folks don't want too much land, cause they don't want to pay the price and taxes for land they won't use, but I'd go for a good amount of acreage, with trees. My hope is for at least 20 acres, but if you want space, you can go for 40 and have more trees and firewood. Where you come home and see deer tracks in your driveway. Tracks ? How about you have to be careful driving in so you don't run the "brown woods rats" over, or have to shoo the wild turkeys out of the driveway ? Downside to widelife is they want to EAT EVERY DAMN THING you do, and you have to fence, enclose, etc them out of it. Neighbors are good, but I want privacy too. Somewhere a good distance from the next neighbor. Where when you here a car, you know they're visitors for you, cause there's no one else around. Where I can wake up and sit on the front porch in my underwear drinking a beer (Underware ?? ) and enjoying your view of the woods. Where you can run a chainsaw, angle grinder, or generator at 2 am. Or blast your tunes. And shoot regularly. Yep,Yep, and Yep.....except "you got a chainsaw with headlights ? " ahahahaaaa With no one too close to be bothered by any of this, except the wife and kids. I suppose a down side is your neighbors aren't gonna spot burglars or other problems on your property for you........ but I guess personally I just like my space enough that I'm willing to find other solutions. Pick a place with natural defenses....end of the road, with timber/ravines/ridges to your sides/back.....then fence/gate the front to control access. It isn't perfect, by any means, but it certainly stops the lazy crooks. THEN, use as much of your front as a buffer as you can....build to the rear of the property, back from prying eyes of govt weenies and other crooks. Being able to connect to the water and power grid, with the option of disconnecting when you choose, would be great. But in reality, finding a good amount of affordable land away from too many other people means you might have to do without the grid. Yep.....the one thing I would do today I didn't do on my place then was NOT connect to the grid at all....but at that time, the price of running a power line in was free ( not so now ) and it was too easy to be seduced by that... Once you got this, the improvements like roads and buildings can be put in as you can afford if you don't have em........ this way you don't have to worry about someone showing up and wanting to take what's yours (well...... at least not some mortgage company). If the land is yours, 100%, even if you just got a tent or a trailer, at least it's still yours. From there, when you build, you can start small with what you can afford, and build with how you'll expand in mind. Hell, if you got the trailer, maybe just start with a garage (maybe with a mom in law apt. above) or barn to put it in. Yep....exactly what we did....built a 24x36 "barn" shop with a chainsaw only ( no power/generator then ) Then moved a mobile home in for a year while we built... It can be convered into living space later. Or build a home with only half the square footage under the roof as living space......... the rest could be porch or car port, to be converted to home later. A wood stove and lots of trees. Chickens. A garden, and deer to worry about keeping out of the garden....... and a good place to target shoot. You been to my place ? Later, you can expand to something closer to your ideal. I'd say a basement is a priority, if your in an area that allows for it. A way to collect rainwater. A "Zero Energy" Insulated Concrete home, with a metal roof, would be great. Those are the plans and desires that come to my mind when I think about having some property.......... Ever heard of "F*&K You Money"? It's having some money put aside, so that whatever situation comes up, like a boss threatening to fire you over something, you've got the funds to say "F- You! Go ahead and do it". For me, I guess my dream is "F- You" property. Somewhere I can go and tell the world "F- You". Preaching to the choir, brother.... There........ now I've done it........ you all got the goods to psychoanalize me and have me commited for being anti-social. Edit: I forgot to add, within 10 miles to town.... (don't have to be a big town, but groceries, hardware, gas.......). Heck, I don't wanna be completely cut off, except when I don't feel like going into town. Exactamundo.....town is nice in small doses.....
You've pretty well described my place to a T.

oz in sc | 07-21-2009 11:43 AM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat A few things I would change in our present place: More land.We have 17 acres and I would like more. A basement under the barn. More trees,although it is difficult to see our home from the road if we were to heat solely with wood we would have to 'borrow' it from neighboring lots.

DC7 | 07-21-2009 11:54 AM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Andy, Quote:
You been to my place? .......You've pretty well described my place to a T.
Hey! You stole my idea! Your making me a real jealous man. I've been to that place....... but I don't thinK I've ever been to your "that place". If I ever do end up on your porch, do me a favor and tell me which chair you sit in with no underwear before I sit down so I can avoid it.:36_1_25: As a youngster I lived in the foothills for some years, drawn up there by a job cutting firewood, after doing different things and living on different properties, realized I'd have a pretty tough time getting my own land if I stayed cause there was no money there....... one of the poorest counties in the State. Ever since I've wanted some property, but it's been a long and twisted road trying to get there.

Canadian-guerilla | 07-21-2009 08:20 PM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat how about heating in the winter . . . wood stove . . . . geo-thermal ? rain water catch system ? how about size of the retreat i'm a big fan of Dick Proenneke and his cabin in Alaska ( 11 x 14 ) outhouse off to the side http://www.aloneinthewilderness.com/index.html how about members with families ? extra rooms for the retreat

AGRO | 07-21-2009 08:27 PM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1826128) Not medieval at all.....construction began 1869 by "Mad" King Ludwig who nearly bankrupt the State of Bavaria building extravagances like this....so he died by an "accidental" drowning. But a good example of how the practicality a building a working homestead can get off in the fantasy of survival retreat.....ahahahaaaaaaaa
OOPS. Still give the guy some credit for building that fantasy land in that time! I will find a different more medieval German castle. I went to one that was in the middle of a river once, they taxed every boat that went through either way.

oz in sc | 07-21-2009 09:17 PM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 1829033) how about members with families ? extra rooms for the retreat
My thoughts on this is they will have to crowd in downstairs...or bring a camper.

Silver Belle | 07-21-2009 09:39 PM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Here is a site that I always find to have some pretty interesting properties. Survivalrealty.com tends to have some pricey ones...but it is great for ideas. My favorites here are: This one...just for an interesting story. My sense is that this one is being sold because the guy's wife was going bonkers up there. http://www.survivalrealty.com/2009/0...tana-land.html This second one is pretty cool...just not enough acreage for my tastes. The same property on 100 secluded acres would be a different story. http://www.survivalrealty.com/images...n/bearden1.jpg http://www.survivalrealty.com/2009/06/the-bear-den.html Not for the size of the property...but for the house. Only thing is that I would want to make sure I had a second way out...but maybe I am just missing that part. More photos and info: http://rockymountainhuntershideout.com/home.asp From the real estate listing: Quote:
Joel Skousen, the renowned expert on secure homes, and author of the book "The Secure Home", and editor/publisher of the excellent newsletter "The World Affairs Brief", has laid down a list of what he considers to be essential for self-sufficiency and security. The essentials are: an independent water supply as well as a back-up supply, alternate electrical power, energy efficient appliances, alternate forms of heat, more than one communication option, adequate storage facilities, including cool storage for long-term food storage, fire-resistant construction and the ability to fight a fire inside the house, multiple forms of security and intruder detection, a high-security safe room/fallout shelter, above normal fortification of the house and grounds and a remote location. Joel states that very few people actually achieve 100% of these elements. It's safe to say, this house has it all! Even though Joel listed remote location last, it is, perhaps, the most important criteria. So important an issue that he wrote a separate book about it entitled, "Strategic Relocation". To build a secure home in the city or even in the suburbs would likely be self-defeating. If however, the secure home is built in a remote location, it then, and only then, can be considered a true retreat. The two, a secure home and a remote location, go hand in hand.

DC7 | 07-22-2009 02:47 AM
Re: design the GIM survivalist/prepper retreat Canadian, Quote:
how about heating in the winter . . . wood stove . . . . geo-thermal ? rain water catch system ? how about size of the retreat i'm a big fan of Dick Proenneke and his cabin in Alaska ( 11 x 14 ) outhouse off to the side http://www.aloneinthewilderness.com/index.html how about members with families ? extra rooms for the retreat
I'm not an expert, but I'll shoot my mouth off anyways....... My view, when it's cold, you want good insulation (I like the idea of insulated concrete). Have good windows. Windows facing south, with sunlight falling on concrete, tile, or stone holds heat from the sun...... And big in my mind: wood stoves kick ass. They can put off alot of heat with a little bit of wood (and again, concrete and stone hold heat). Pick the right size for the amount of space you got. I've heard it said, with a wood stove you wanna have an open floor plan for the whole house, so you can heat it all, but I don't know that I agree. I think if you can close doors to unused space, it's less space to heat. Not having high ceilings helps too....... though if your using 4x8 materials, a standard 8' high ceiling in all rooms is alot less work than having low and high ceilings in different rooms. A decent sized main room (open to the kitchen), and the bedrooms, are my idea of a good space to heat when it's cold. If you got more areas, close the doors, don't heat them, and stay out. Or open the door and put on an extra layer if you need em. As for cooling, I've heard window placement can make a huge difference with airflow and cooling when you open the right windows....... but I'm not too knowledgable there. The opposite of trying to keep a room warm, a little higher ceiling lets heat rise up and away from you.... maybe a living room made to stay warm in the winter, and a family room meant to be cool in the summer are ideas. Maybe turn the attached garage into a family room, and keep the full size garage door to open for some air? I say if you got a basement, don't waste too much energy trying to cool the upstairs. Live in the warm upstairs in winter, and in the summer heat, enjoy time in the cool basement. And tempatures underground being fairly consistent, if the basements dry, it's perfect for food storage. As for being able to house more people, I say there's no reason all the space needs to be the same quality......... I say put your time, effort, and money into the quality of the living space for you, the wife, and kids, instead of cutting quality to make the place big enough for everybody. What starts off as an enclosed porch, or storage, or an attached or separate garage, or barn, can be converted to living space over time. If you haven't finished the space yet, and people show up planning on being long term guests, then you got them to help you with the project. If you lived in a trailer while building, keep it for the in laws (or whoever). Hell, set up some space like a campground and tell em all to bring thier own trailers if they can handle that. But it all works out better if you plan it out knowing beforehand how you will expand it before you start building. If the garage or porch will eventually be a part of the house when done, plan it that way from the start so it doesn't end up being a pain trying to get around the house.

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