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Ash_Williams | 03-18-2006 02:09 PM
Survival food list. I'm seeing a lot of suggestions for survival food, and a lot of them shot down as not being effective or not lasting as long as the articles have claimed. So, what can I keep around for a few years? Rice, corn flakes, canned soup?

crazychicken | 03-18-2006 02:19 PM
Re: Survival food list. Rice lasts a long time. The VC lived on it during the war. A lot of people still see rice as their staple. If you use that as a basis then just about anything can be thrown in with it to give some variety. When I am in the field I carry a two quart canteen filled with rice. It can even be used dry by carrying it your mouth and chewed for entertainment--provided you have sufficient water. You can go a long ways using that rice and whatever you come across in your travels. Supplement it with fruits, nuts, berries, bark, grubs, snake, birds and or whatever you happen upon.

AMforPM | 03-18-2006 08:56 PM
Re: Survival food list. Make sure it is white rice if you want it to keep. The rich fatty germ of whole or brown rice goes rancid pretty soon.. how soon depending on temperature. You can still eat it and not be poisoned or anything, it is just stale tasting, unpalatable to me, and less nutritious. If you vacuum sealed it and tossed it in the freezer brown rice would stay fresh, but the idea is to have things that keep without power for most who store food. On the other hand, you might eat it soon enough for it to still be fresh once the power was off. On your general question, my opinion is to choose foods with several criteria 1. food you like 2. food that keeps well 3. food that combined will meet all nutritional needs 4. food that fits your budget For example, dried foods do not cut it long term for really good health. They provide enough calories and decent nutrition, but you need some fresh food. Our stopgap till we could garden will be sprouts, which I don't like much. So it is a trade off to get fresh enzymes and the vitamins and minerals of fresh food from something that stores. In this case alfalfa seed for sprouting. I will eat them medicinally and enjoy other foods. (Sprouts appeal to me about as much as grazing in a vacant lot.) Then some people like the freeze dried complete meals, such as Mountain House. They have the big advantage of being very easy to prepare. If you can boil water you have dinner. But I don't much like their recipes, spice choices, and so forth. So we won't have much of that, but it might be perfect for you. I would suggest that after you read about different food choices that keep, you eat some of anything you are considering. Then you can pick enough protein, calories, shelf life, and other nutrients from among mostly things you like or at least won't find totally unappetizing.

AMforPM | 03-18-2006 09:02 PM
Re: Survival food list. Crazy, if you can munch on grubs and bark I doubt stale rancid rice would bother you much. No way you are going to starve! A grub shortage is unlikely in the worst food shortage!!:ARMS1:

bjgnome | 03-18-2006 09:21 PM
Re: Survival food list. Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM Our stopgap till we could garden will be sprouts, which I don't like much. So it is a trade off to get fresh enzymes and the vitamins and minerals of fresh food from something that stores. In this case alfalfa seed for sprouting. I will eat them medicinally and enjoy other foods. (Sprouts appeal to me about as much as grazing in a vacant lot.)
I was thinking about alfalfa this way just today, and thought about starting a thread, so you beat me to the punch. I haven't bought alfalfa in bulk. Wonder if it is available at feed stores? Sprouts have great nutritional value, a few pounds of seeds will go a long way. Keep 2 or 3 sprouting jars going, and you will always have fresh live food. You're own portable greenhouse if you like, just add WATER. I do actually like alfalfa, though usually mixed with other stuff. You can also sprout tons of other stuff. I'm just guessing alfalfa is the cheapest. One of my favorites is daikon radish sprouts... nice and spicy! Doubles as seed stock for your garden. Daikon, if you're not familiar with it is tasty raw, cooked or pickled, and the roots store relatively well, and they do well in cold weather. Leaves are edible too, best cooked in soup. Sprouts in general alkalize the body, which is good with modern diet, because we tend towards acid. But you could overdo it. I think wheatberries are another cheap item to sprout, with a few more calories in 'em than alfalfa. You can make a sort of sprouted bread by sprouting wheatberries, mushing them up and then baking at low temp.

AMforPM | 03-18-2006 09:23 PM
Re: Survival food list. I'm going to order ours through the co-op because alfalfa seed for planting is often treated with toxins. mmmm wheatberry bread is delish!

Lackluster | 03-18-2006 09:43 PM
Re: Survival food list. http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...CMZZZZZZZ_.jpg Delicious, nutritious, and have a long shelf life!

Prometheus | 03-18-2006 09:54 PM
Re: Survival food list. Rice and pasta should be at the heart of any food storage plan. Soybeans are high on the list as well.

GoldWampum | 03-18-2006 09:57 PM
Re: Survival food list. Quote:
Originally Posted by Lackluster http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...CMZZZZZZZ_.jpg Delicious, nutritious, and have a long shelf life!
I would be inclined to test their shelf life.:Sorry:

Ash_Williams | 03-18-2006 10:10 PM
Re: Survival food list. Rice and pasta seem like good ideas. I've kept both around for years with no problems (not as a test - I'm just too damn lazy get around to cooking.) How do canned foods hold up? What's the shelf like of chef boyardi or something like that? What kind of leafy greens can I store? Money isn't really a consideration for me, but I'd sooner just buy stuff at the local grocery store rather than order some weird freeze dried thing on the internet.

NUTS! | 03-18-2006 10:20 PM
Re: Survival food list. Canned food from 100 years ago has been tested and shown to be edible. It lost a lot of it's nutrient value, taste and texture, but you could eat it. Our current canning technology is fantastic in comparison to then. Well, rather, the market has eliminated most of the poor canners. For greens, I'd recommend cans of whole leaf spinach and green beans. Also, canned carrots are a good pick.

AMforPM | 03-18-2006 10:31 PM
Re: Survival food list. Leafy greens are by their nature a delicate food which does not preserve well. Have you noticed how fast neglected lettuce turns to slime in the back of the fridge? That's why we were thinking of sprouts, you have a dry seed stored, moisten it, and out sprouts mini fresh greens. Canned goods like your Chef Boyardi are good for 2 years or so even in not so great conditions, maybe 5 years or more if you are lucky, though tasting less good as time goes by. If you put what you just bought at the back of a line of each kind of can, and the oldest then gets pushed to the front and you eat that one next, you could eat out of cans and keep a 2 year supply fresh enough. I don't always do it, but if you jot the month and year on the can top as you load it in the cabinet, you will know if something is getting ancient even if your lineup gets scrambled.

Infidel | 03-18-2006 10:36 PM
Re: Survival food list. http://waltonfeed.net/grain/faqs/ Buy grain from them this is where LDS buys i hear. they have certified organic wheat, cheap

Donnie740 | 03-18-2006 10:37 PM
Re: Survival food list. Eating tree bark and grubs? Hahaha, how clueless are these people? If you're worried about going hungry the best thing you can do is learn how to garden. If you live in a warm climate you'll never have to be concerned about not having any food - - even if you're in a colder climate (Canada) you can still be fine. Peas, green & yellow beans and potatoes are easy to grow. Blanch them and then store in the freezer for a year or two with no problems. The best part is, you can dry some of the peas & beans and carry them over the winter to plant the following year. Digging potatoes in the late fall will easily store in paper/burlap sacks in a cold cellar for 3 to 4 months. And then in the spring, the leftovers get used for seeding the next crop. Get a dozen or so chickens and you'll always have fresh eggs for protein. Anybody thought of getting a couple of goats, or even a cow? That gives you unlimited milk supply, and if you know a local butcher or can do it yourself, a supply of fresh meat. Do you live near water? Fishing is always an easy way of getting meat too. Of course, if you're living in a condo, or have a "backyard" that's about 5'x5' it's going to be a bit more difficult. Get out of the cities, move to the country and get some land to supply yourself.

GoldWampum | 03-18-2006 10:39 PM
Re: Survival food list. Thanks Zhukher. Good link.

AMforPM | 03-18-2006 10:53 PM
Re: Survival food list. Good ideas. Even 5x5 can produce a lot of food used intensively, though certainly not all you need. 1 bush squash can fit in 3x3 and put squash for a family on the table all the warm months. A small non bell pepper 1x1 to give flavor and vitamins the same months. Run some green beans up the north side vertically and you can have a lot of them from a small footprint. Add a tomato in a 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 footprint growing up a big cage for lots of those, and a cucumber the same way. In the cooler months turnips give greens and roots in not much space and cabbage only needs about 1x1 per cabbage. Potatoes take a bit more space than other things, but really produce. Peas can go vertical. My first garden was 6x6 and I had stuff to give away. I was astounded how much food that tiny garden produced. The grub and bark eater has obviously had survival training and it sounds effective. Being squeamish I'd rather feed the grub to the hen and let her recycle it into a nice egg. :D

NUTS! | 03-18-2006 11:05 PM
Re: Survival food list. I write date of purchase on all of my canned goods. I also try to figure out which canning dating system is stamped on the can (there are so many) and then write the date it was canned. This allows me to rotate my food store before it's a year old.

Infidel | 03-18-2006 11:05 PM
Re: Survival food list. http://www.google.com/search?q=squar...en-US:official

bjgnome | 03-19-2006 12:06 AM
Re: Survival food list. yes, a 5x5 garden can produce quite a bit. These guys have taken the suburban lot with a house on it to the extreme. Family of 4 I think producing all their food on a standard lot, and selling the excess for profit, plus they are using solar panels & biodiesel. Great website if you havne't seen it. http://pathtofreedom.com/ About PTF http://www.pathtofreedom.com/images/journal/jdcob.jpg Jules plastering the new cob oven �This project evolved from our commitment and conviction to live a simple, self-sufficient and holistic lifestyle,� says Jules Dervaes, founder, It is an entire life�s journey and we have many more miles to go--the journey is by no means over! We are proving that we can attain our goal if we advance in stages whatever the circumstances. Our hope is that by documenting our personal experiences we can offer encouragement to those who are on the same journey towards a simple, self-sufficient lifestyle whether they are in the city or country.� ~ Jules Dervaes ~ Founded by Jules Dervaes in 2001, Path to Freedom is a not for profit, family operated, viable urban homesteading project established to promote a simpler and more fulfilling lifestyle and reduce our family�s �footprint� on the earth�s dwindling resources. This project is slowly becoming legendary and is widely considered as a very successful model of functional organic farming-gardening. Our objective is to live as sustainably and self-sufficiently as possible in an urban environment in harmony with nature and each other, while also inspiring others to �think globally, act locally.� Our homestead supports four adults, who live and work full time on a 66� x 132� city lot (1/5 acre). The homestead's front and back yards are fully cultivated, primarily with edible landscaping, using a variety of permaculture and bio-intensive gardening, soil amendment methods and and agrarian principles. These methods include: raised beds container gardening aerial hanging pots trellised vines espaliered fruit trees mulching rock dust application worm, animal manure, and vegetation composting. Organic pest management techniques include: applying "compost tea" to combat blight diatomaceous earth for fly control; microbes and lady bugs and praying mantises for harmful insect control. Water conservation practices include heavy mulching to retain soil moisture watering only in the early morning or evening to control evaporation using �grey water� from laundry to water non-edible plants capturing rain water and installing dual-flush toilets installed with assistance of city rebate program. The productive 1/10 acre organic garden now grows over 6,000 pounds (3 tons) (that's right, this is not a mistype!) of organic produce annually, providing fresh vegetables and fruit for our family�s vegetarian diet. In addition, Path to Freedom operates a viable & lucrative home business that supplies area restaurants and caterers with salad mix, edible flowers, heirloom variety tomatoes and other in-season vegetables. http://www.pathtofreedom.com/images/...rontyard-1.jpg Path to Freedom, front yard garden Jules Dervaes states: �In our society growing food yourself has become the most radical of acts. It is truly the only effective protest, one that can--and will--overturn the corporate powers that be. By the process of directly working in harmony with nature, we do the one thing most essential to change the world--we change ourselves.� The income earned from produce sales offsets operating expenses and is invested in appropriate technologies, such as solar panels, energy efficient appliances, and biodiesel processor, to decrease further our homestead�s reliance on the earth�s non-renewable resources. Over the years, by purchasing energy efficient appliances and using electricity conservatively, we have cut our energy usage in half. Solar panels have reduced our dependence on electricity by two-thirds and have furthered our goal of energy independence. In 2004, our family constructed a biodiesel processor from a discarded hot water heater. Every month we brew over 30 gallons of low emissions biodiesel (a renewable, nontoxic, biodegradable replacement for petrol diesel) from used vegetable oil to fuel our diesel suburban, reducing air toxins by 90%. Future projects our "to do list" is the installation of a greywater reclamation system, composting toilet, and a cistern to capture store rainwater which would dramatically reduce the use of precious water. Outreach PathtoFreedom.com is run and maintained by members of the Dervaes family. We operate the website as a non-commercial, home-based effort with no advertising or things to sell. This site documents the daily struggles and triumphs and seasonal activities of the Path to Freedom with additional links and resources about environmental issues and sustainable living. Recently, Path to Freedom has been open to the public for tours and educational workshops. In addition, our family has been invited to participate in a number of events and festivals. The project is slowly becoming legendary worldwide and has attracted local and national media attention, including television, magazine, and newspaper coverage. Funding While Path to Freedom has enjoyed widespread recognition, we are not incorporated nor do we have non-profit 501(c)(3) status. PTF receives no outside financing through grants or memberships. Projects that we have undertaken in the past and plan to accomplish in the future are self-funded with the earnings of our produce business. We do not make our living teaching, writing, and consulting about all the aspects of urban homesteading and related fields � we are living the model instead.

AMforPM | 03-19-2006 01:36 AM
Re: Survival food list. That is very interesting bjg. I'm going to bookmark that one. We have about that size lot, 115x100 or so, and I think we could feed ourselves but for coffee and sugar, etc -- the things that just don't grow here. We plan to travel and may not retire here because where the country is going could get just too strained. But if we stay, the orchard is in long since, and I gardened several years to make sure my skills and ideas worked. The hens are symbiotic because they give protein and fertilizer, weed, eat bugs, and also eat garden waste, and they have built up the soil very rapidly. We don't have enough space for a cornfield, but we do have room to raise millet for the hens and us and way more vegetables than we can eat. It would not take much cash to be comfortable. (Though I hope our PMs and shares do well.) I think if things get 29-like, using yards like that can make anyone with a yard able to weather things much better. It is people with no yards at all, stacked in the dense apartments with no green space, who have the toughest go. NYC can't feed itself. But density will mean less commuting dislocation there as energy issues continue to force change. Here we have miles of suburbs and I think people will have to work nearer home, or a lot will, as energy goes up and up, and wages don't. Plus since US manufacturing has been erased, I think the economy may have to regenerate in a new form from small enterprises. The top is worse than clueless. The citizens are going to have to reshape things by the hand of the 99%. For example, people may start businesses in alternative energy as small home based internet sales platforms, with micro manufacturing in neighborhoods. Though the part right in front of us, the death of the imperial dollar and the transition to using much less hydrocarbons is looking pretty rough, it is possible that like the 29 depression, a very nice period may grow on the other side of the mess. IF we don't have nuclear war. Crashing the debt out of the system, and hopefully getting a stake through the fed's heart and honest money established, could bring great things. It's just such rocky rapids from here to there. Anyway, there is a secure feeling, much like the way having PMs feels secure, in having control of one's own food supply. I am storing things we don't grow, but I could put in some season appropriate vegetables at any time and be harvesting something in 2 months. Long term I think a lot more food production will be local. I just hope people learn to do it for their own well being before they suffer a lot. Self-sufficiency used to be an American norm, but it has almost vanished. Storage is important to carry us through the crisis part, but then we need to be able to keep ourselves fed.

R MacDonald | 03-19-2006 04:43 AM
Re: Survival food list. That's amazing!

Ash_Williams | 03-19-2006 09:00 AM
Re: Survival food list. I'm reading right now that freeze-dried foods have a 25 year shelf life, while dehydrated lasts 8-10 years. Does anyone have opinions as to other advantages of one over the other? Also, how long should seeds last? If I pick up a pack of tomato seeds from the garden center, can I plant them 7 years later?

bjgnome | 03-19-2006 11:06 AM
Re: Survival food list. Quote:
Originally Posted by Cousi Also, how long should seeds last? If I pick up a pack of tomato seeds from the garden center, can I plant them 7 years later?
There will be some degradation over time, but there have been seeds that were successfully sprouted after thousands of years. Do an internet search for "seed savers" and you can probably find more detailed info about that. I often store (and plant) seeds from organic produce that I buy to eat. Free seeds of the variety I'm eating anyway. Germination rate might not be up to par with commercially bought seeds, but nothing lost if they don't sprout! My Ma lives in Manhattan and has a rooftop container garden. Sprouting is viable in the cities too. They will never produce major amounts of staples, like grains - but even just windowsill veggies and sprouts on the kitchen counter could make a huge difference in the sustainability of cities almost overnight if people would just wake up...:Zzzz: It's going to be a rude awakening allright! :eek: My mother-in-law lives in Tokyo, and has a container garden on her balcony. When my wife lived there, she was using bacterial culture for fast composting to make soil. They chose the apartment decades ago because of southern exposure... passive solar heating. Cities in theory can be very viable... but I don't want any part of the action WSHTF. :afraid:

Lackluster | 03-19-2006 11:40 AM
Re: Survival food list. "I often store (and plant) seeds from organic produce that I buy to eat. Free seeds of the variety I'm eating anyway. Germination rate might not be up to par with commercially bought seeds, but nothing lost if they don't sprout!" You should be aware that there are no prohibitions against organic growers using hybrid seeds. So while those seeds may germinate and grow, they most likely will not grow "true to type." That is, the seeds from a hybrid summer squash fruit will yield a plant with fruits that are not like what you bought at the store.

crazychicken | 03-19-2006 05:24 PM
Hey clueless Donnie740 Hey Donnie740-You said eating grubs and such-clueless. Bark, grubs, insects, snakes, berries, grass, and a lot of other things work real good in a pinch. Ask anyone who qualified Delta, Special Forces or Ranger--Army; Seal--Navy; or Force Recon--Marine. Tell them they are clueless. Difference is they know as opposed to a keyboard commando. Ponce was Special Forces, I was Ranger. The subject was survival foods, not un-reality shows. PMJones US Army Ranger and damn proud of it.

FRNhoarder | 03-19-2006 06:09 PM
Re: Survival food list. Saxon wrote "The anarchists cookbook" & "Poor mans james bond" He has a great section on Survival foods. Good stuff like , 'Raising catfish in a barrel' and 'a garden in a basket' http://www.kurtsaxon.com/foods000.htm

TheKingsSon | 03-19-2006 06:30 PM
Re: Survival food list. Quote:
Originally Posted by Cousi I'm seeing a lot of suggestions for survival food, and a lot of them shot down as not being effective or not lasting as long as the articles have claimed. So, what can I keep around for a few years? Rice, corn flakes, canned soup?
HONEY The ONLY food in the Bible in which there is a command to eat! Proverbs 24:13,14 � My son, eat thou honey, because it is good; and the honeycomb, which is sweet to thy taste: So shall the knowledge of wisdom be unto thy soul: when thou hast found it, then there shall be a reward, and thy expectation shall not be cut off. Unbeatable shelf life. Honey found in Egyptian tombs was still good. Unbeatable nutrition, containing amino acids, protiens, vitimins and minerals AND items that are not even identified. No worries though God said to eat it! :smile:

Silver Sword | 03-19-2006 09:07 PM
Re: Survival food list. Quote:
Originally Posted by AMforPM That is very interesting bjg. I'm going to bookmark that one. We have about that size lot, 115x100 or so, and I think we could feed ourselves but for coffee and sugar, etc -- the things that just don't grow here.
Just side note to your excellent post: for your sugar needs in why not try sugarbeet if you cannot grow sugar cane? Back in the extreme weather conditions of my native Finland we use it to produce our own sugar, and I can vouch for its excellence even though it is demanding to grow.

bjgnome | 03-19-2006 09:57 PM
Re: Survival food list. Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingsSon HONEY The ONLY food in the Bible in which there is a command to eat! Proverbs 24:13,14 � My son, eat thou honey, because it is good; and the honeycomb, which is sweet to thy taste: So shall the knowledge of wisdom be unto thy soul: when thou hast found it, then there shall be a reward, and thy expectation shall not be cut off. Unbeatable shelf life. Honey found in Egyptian tombs was still good. Unbeatable nutrition, containing amino acids, protiens, vitimins and minerals AND items that are not even identified. No worries though God said to eat it! :smile:
Not sure how long bee pollen stores, but I do know that it is a complete food. It has every nutrient we need to survive indefinitely, minus water and fiber. Honey is great stuff, too, and you can make mead from it. :coolbeer:

Infidel | 03-20-2006 12:31 AM
Re: Survival food list. I would not use tires. They are made from really really poisonous resins. you can make potato planter from red brick and some cement. space the bricks out as you would in the tires example above.

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Bugle | 03-20-2006 12:49 AM
Re: Survival food list. I half heartedly tried the potato/tire thing last year. Stuffing the dirt into the tire and keeping the 8-12 inches of plant from being totally mangled is a pain. It does work though. I particularly like the harvest as you go part. I don't think I watered them throughly enough or often enough. The potatoes were pretty small. Had it built up to 4 tires high.

AMforPM | 03-20-2006 12:57 AM
Re: Survival food list. Cousi, if cost matters zero to you the freeze dried products, the best of those, are very likely the easiest way to have long term shelf stable food. For sure you should taste test a sample first, since you don't want thousands of $ in food that tastes awful to you. Also, if you hate to cook the kind of freeze dried that counts on a wonderful cook and baker, like 300lbs of wheat, won't be right for you. The kind that you add water and get something more like your chef boyardi might be best for you. Mountain House has big kits and you can taste their stuff easily by picking up 1 serving packs at a local camping store. Also, if you like, say, instant mashed potatoes, then getting a freeze dried can of them to go with some form of canned meat for a change of pace meal might suit you. That it be food you like and also won't detest fixing will make things nicer for you. Cans rust if you store them in high humidity, and all stored food is better longer if stored away from heat. 50 degrees is wonderful, but just in the part of your dwelling that has a/c will help. Seeds are also destroyed by heat and humidity. We use one of our veggie drawers in the fridge for our seed which are in good tight doubled ziplocks to keep humidity out. Also, hybrid seed only does you good 1 year. Hybrid varieties do not breed true. Kind of like mutt dogs- you don't know what you will get next generation. Seeds called 'open pollinated' breed true and you can plant the seeds of this years squash next year and get the same useful plant. We had some hybrid tomatoes self reseed in a bed and make some really strange plants, none of which produced tomatoes. We let them mature just to see. One made beautiful white flowers and tiny pea size green fruit that I was not a bit interested in tasting. ----- Honey and sugar beets are great ideas. You need pollination services anyway. Because my space is limited, my plan is to expect to keep buying sugar and honey, or trading for honey, and just put the veggies and protein on the table. But then there are a lot of local beekeepers, so I figure I could. I may grow the giant beets called mangels and grate them as part of the hens' diet though. They make a lot of calories from not much dirt. I considered gardening a few years right here part of my survival preparedness. Few will be great gardeners the first try, so you don't want to flop and really need the food. Also, what will grow in your yard is often not exactly what will do well even across town. You have your light pattern and your microclimate as to frost etc to get used to. We do not get freezes when most of town does, for example and that lets us grow cool weather stuff all winter long. So a tiny practice garden, even 3 x 8 or so, that did not wear you out, could get you ready with the skills plus give you really good tasting fresh food. For a beginner I would recommend the book 'Square Foot Gardening' and permaculture reading. We certainly enjoyed raising the hens. They were as much pets as anything. If you have never had a fresh that day egg let me tell you there is no comparison. And the hens are friendly and useful for so much. We set up the fencing so they could be let into an area we were going to plant and graze it bare, dig up all the bugs, fertilize it, and that meant all those chores did not have to be done by us plus it was food for them to supplement their feed. Then we shut them out of that weed free, bug free, rich, churned into nice loose fluffy dirt area and planted it. When we were done with that seasonal garden, we let them back in to clean it up and fertilize it again. Really nice way to live in harmony with each other. They get food and shelter and we get eggs, fertilizer, and feathered farm hands. LOL We got old timey family farm type birds from Murray McMurray. We have 1 old hen left now (we let them live their natural lifespans as an experiment to see how they did over time.) She is a barred rock, now 9, and still laying about 5 eggs a week, though she stopped for a few winter months, and lays less in the summer heat too. Spring is when hens lay the most eggs. The black australorpes, who hold the world record in laying, laid the best and our last of those passed away this month.

AMforPM | 03-20-2006 01:00 AM
Re: Survival food list. That is interesting. I had wondered how the potato tire thing would work, but never tried it. I like small red potatoes a lot so that might be a good way to grow them.

REV127 | 03-20-2006 10:16 AM
Re: Survival food list. Howdy, first post... :wavey: You need renewable sources of food, every numbskull who sees a rat or lizard is going to kill it and eat it so hunting won't be viable for very long, I guess that makes farming the hot ticket. Anyway, as far as things you can stock back now look into the low sodium variety of Spam. It has 180% the RDA of vitamin C for one person, lots of protein, the highest caloric value to weight/bulk I've found and boasts a near-indefinate shelf life. It is actually highly competetive with canned spinach for vitamin and mineral content and certainly more efficient in terms of caloric value/bulk/weight/cost. Spam, white rice, black beans and ramen make up the bulk of my emergency stores and trade food, I have some tastier but less efficient stuff for hurricanes. :spam4: Also look into Parmalat if you haven't already, it's shelf stable boxed milk that's good for several months and tastes at least as good as the stuff you buy refrigerated in jugs and way better than powdered milk. If you like it and use it as a stable you can easily rotate stock so you always have a supply that's good for several months out. Hard tack isn't as bad as the old legends, at least I like it. The key is not to eat it alone, though you can. I prefer to let it soften up and gain flavor by boiling in soup or broth, preferably to add bulk to a little meat. You can make it yourself super cheap with a little salt, water and flour. If you used enriched flour the vitamin and mineral content will be better. Don't add things like dried fruits, butter, beef jerky or that kind of stuff or you'll cut the shelf life considerably. Properly prepared, hard tack lasts just about forever, as far as I can tell! :eek: I like to keep some food around for neighbors and trade purposes, doesn't have to be the best. People go crazy if they get hungry enough. There's an old Nordic proverb about being able to buy friendship on the cheap, with a small drink and half a loaf of bread. Sharing food actually has fairly significant psychological and sociological implications for humans. Ever heard the line "you have to buy me dinner first," or "the path to a man's heart is through his stomach?"

Argentsum | 03-20-2006 07:28 PM
Re: Survival food list. A few months ago I opened a can of green beans that I knew to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 - 10 years old. The beans had a strong, metallic taste so I tossed em. Probably edible but yuck! As far as commercially prepared emergency food, I've been stocking up on the #10 cans from Mountain House. The contents are freeze dried and the cans have the air replaced with nitrogen. The shelf life is supposed to be 30+ years. Only trouble is that they are often times are out of stock. Honey (in glass jars), hard liquor, canned butter also have their place. I believe canned butter has a shelf life of around 2 years. Too bad there isn't a shelf stable cooking oil. I believe Crisco is the best long term, but its still a short duration item. For a bug out bag, I'd go with Mainstay rations and Survival Food tablets. Though those Survival tablets are more like starvation tablets if you ask me.

Bugle | 03-20-2006 08:10 PM
Re: Survival food list. [QUOTE=Argentsum Too bad there isn't a shelf stable cooking oil. I believe Crisco is the best long term, but its still a short duration item. Some one mentioned that olive oil if stored properly will last indefinately. I would be interested to know what the ideal storage conditions are for olive oil. I'm going to store it between 50 and 60 degrees. I'll report back in couple years.

hoarder | 03-20-2006 08:52 PM
Re: Survival food list. Quote:
Originally Posted by REV127 I like to keep some food around for neighbors and trade purposes, doesn't have to be the best. People go crazy if they get hungry enough.
Welcome to GIM, even if you are a spammer. Yechh! Keeping food for trade purposes is a very good idea. What will fuel cost WTSHTF? A few dozen 25 pound bags of rice purchased today at $9 a bag will be very useful to trade for fuel, plus the benefits of getting it into circulation locally. 500 pounds of rice for $200 today. The returns might be better than silver, in real life non-economic terms.

Merlin | 03-20-2006 08:53 PM
Re: Survival food list. [QUOTE=Bugle][QUOTE=Argentsum Too bad there isn't a shelf stable cooking oil. I believe Crisco is the best long term, but its still a short duration item.[/QUOTE] If you buy it in the big *metal* can, the shelf life of Crisco is indefinite, according to the manufacturer.

Goldhedge | 03-20-2006 10:45 PM
Re: Survival food list. Here is a really good song by Greg Brown I thought fit well into this thread. If you get the chance to see him, you will spend your money well. Canned Goods Canned Goods Let those December winds bellow 'n' blow I'm as warm as a July tomato. [chorus:] Peaches on the shelf Potatoes in the bin Supper's ready, everybody come on in Taste a little of the summer, Taste a little of the summer, You can taste a little of the summer my grandma's put it all in jars. Well, there's a root cellar, fruit cellar down below Watch you head now, and down you go And there's [repeat chorus] Maybe you're weary an' you don't give a damn I bet you never tasted her blackberry jam. [repeat chorus] Ah, she's got magic in her - you know what I mean She puts the sun and rain in with her green beans. [repeat chorus] What with the snow and the economy and ev'ry'thing, I think I'll jus' stay down here and eat until spring. [repeat chorus] When I go to see my grandma I gain a lot of weight With her dear hands she gives me plate after plate. She cans the pickles, sweet & dill She cans the songs of the whippoorwill And the morning dew and the evening moon 'N' I really got to go see her pretty soon 'Cause these canned goods I buy at the store Ain't got the summer in them anymore. You bet, grandma, as sure as you're born I'll take some more potatoes and a thunderstorm. Peaches on the shelf Potatoes in the bin Supper's ready, everybody come on in, now Taste a little of the summer, Taste a little of the summer, Taste a little of the summer, My grandma put it all in jars. Let those December winds bellow and blow, I'm as warm as a July tomato. [repeat chorus] http://www.gregbrown.org/

bjgnome | 03-20-2006 10:53 PM
Re: Survival food list. Aw, brought a tear to my eye thinkin' 'bout grandma. Thanks goldhenge.

AMforPM | 03-21-2006 03:29 AM
Re: Survival food list. I've opened 2 year old crisco and found it rancid. Olive oil at that temperature if it is either vacuum packed or as close to air free as possible may keep better. I'm going to experiment with fats in the freezer. I've read butter is not destroyed by freezing. Oxygen is the biggest factor in rancidity, but temperature is another factor. I had hoped being sealed up tight would make crisco longer lasting, though it is a pretty disagreeable fat.

Goldhedge | 03-21-2006 03:47 PM
Re: Survival food list. Quote:
Originally Posted by bjgnome Honey is great stuff, too, and you can make mead from it. :coolbeer:
I admit, I too am a mead head....:proud:

AMforPM | 03-22-2006 09:17 AM
Re: Survival food list. Do you make mead? I tried to once and what a flop. I'm not sure what I did wrong but what I made tasted more like gasoline. :eek:

mightyspuds | 03-24-2006 06:36 PM
Re: Survival food list. Butter freezes well,at least short term,we use it in a few months. Rose hips.A rose blossoms,then looses its petals.What is left behind is the rose hip,super rich in Vitamin C.We have those little wild thorny roses here you cant kill,the hips eaten fresh are quite tasty.You can dry them too,and put them into tea.Not sure how else the dried hips are used.Love the fresh ones though. Spuds:sheep:

Infidel | 03-25-2006 03:52 AM
Re: Survival food list. Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnysideup people in Scotland make rosehip jelly also spuds.
People in Scotland eat sheep's 'pluck' (heart, liver, windpipe and lungs), minced with onion, oatmeal, suet, spices, and salt, mixed with stock, and traditionally boiled in the animal's stomach for approximately an hour. ================================================== = This is really cool too, My grandma used to make. Not survival, but if you are going to be using roses it is very tasty Rose Petal Jam 1 cup fresh rose petals (must never have been sprayed with any chemicals) 3/4 cup water Juice of 1 lemon 2 1/2 cups sugar, 1 package pectin (ie. Sure Jell) 3/4 cup water Puree rose petals, 3/4 cup water and lemon juice in blender until smooth. Slowly add sugar. Blend till all sugar has dissolved; (leave in blender) Stir 1 package pectin (ie. Sure Jell) into 3/4 cup water, bring to a boil, and boil hard for 1 minute. Pour mixture into blender with rose petal mixture until well blended. Do this very quickly - it sets up FAST!! Pour into baby food jars. Let set for 6 hours, till firm. Will keep one month in refrigerator. Freezes well.

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