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money matters | 04-25-2006 04:19 AM
Last Minute Considerations.... Not saying this is THE last minute. Yet, someday there will be one; if/when stuff happens If you have transportation, and a full tank of fuel, maybe you will be able to make a bug-out run for it? What would you stuff into your vehicle, besides family and personal things? Would you remember to turn off the utilities to your house? Likely not, but turning off the gas, electric, and water may help you have a place to return to. What to have? What to pack? Do you have a "ready box" or boxes? Maybe a trailer? A horse trailer would be great, a cargo trailer even better. Got one of those receiver hitch mount carry-frames? Maybe a roof rack? I figure shelter from rain and staying warm/dry are on top of any list. A good sleeping bag and ancillary sleeping gear also ranks way up there. Tarps are more flexible than tents, although you can find tents at resale/thrift shops by the dozens; often w/o stakes or poles, but no matter. As long as you have some ropes, you can rig a tarp or erect a tent. You can put a rock inside one corner of the tent and knot the rope behind it. Such a fastener will be better than a grommet, and you can rig anywhere without putting a hole in your tarp. Likely, an 8x6 tarp will make a great ground cloth for any sleeping bag or tent. Thinking of poly tarps, like WallyWorld sells, the small sizes like this go for about $3. The bigger 10x12 or larger will make a great roof or side wall for a makeshift shelter. You can fit a bunch of these into a small area of the trunk of your car. That way you have them. Nylon rope or heavy cord will work. Sysal is good, but degrades, poly rope the same way in sunlight; but pack what you have or can find. You can learn to make ropes later. Nuclear War Survival Skills, the book, details several quickly dug trench shelters that are improvised and effective. If you have a shovel, and a saw or an axe you are likely in business. If you live where there are lots of rocks, maybe you want a pick-axe? Likely you have these things in your garage. Nice to have a spare blade or two for your Swedish saw, and a spare kit for your chainsaw. But, keep these things together and round them up so you can load up with your essentials, should you need to. Blankets, esp woolen are good for outdoors use. Heavy safety pins or diaper pins can turn a blanket and a tarp into a pretty fair bedroll for outdoor use. A bit of rope enables you to carry it rolled up, over your shoulder, and you can put stuff inside. Instead of throwing out plastic soda jugs and other water bottles, fill them up from your tap after rinsing. You will have some water storage that way. You might want to organize some boxes for canned foods and dry stuff like spices and cereal. If things begin to look "dicey" you can pack from your cupboard and have your boxes ready to load or move them to the garage or trunk of your car. Do you have a place to go, a destination in mind? Do you know backroads routes, and old roads that you can take out of town? Do you have maps, and maybe a route planned and listed out? Things get missed under stress and in rainy conditions. You want to have some alternate routes, and be able to fall back on other ways if some road or area is impassable. YOU WANT TO TEST DRIVE YOUR DESIRED ROUTE. Very Important. Be certain there are no detours or bridge-out situations. Be sure your road is in good shape. Look at the neighborhoods you will be travelling through. Are they safe if you get stopped there for a while? If not, you want to leave "early", rather than risk last minute evacuation. Do you have a plan? If not, you are just reacting. You want to have pre-determined when to enact your plan and then work it. It does not matter if family or friends think you are silly or nuts. Do you trust your instincts? Once you hear the Emergency Messages on radio or TV, you likely waited Too Long. If you think you have no where to go, there are always state, local, and national parks and forests. Go somewhere that you could be camping and make like you're on vacation. Top off your fuel etc and add to what you've brought if there's time. If you plan to stay in your home; make sure you have made all your preparations ahead of time. At least, don't be in the position of having to shop at the last minute. Why put yourself and family in jeopardy for more matches or aluminum foil, or gasoline? Maybe you spend your last moments reinforcing your home or putting together an inner shelter. If you are in a fall-out zone; you can be safe in your house if about 7 miles from a nuclear blast area or target. What you need is to be able to be as far away from outside walls and roofs as possible and to stack dense materials between you and the outer walls. Gamma rays cannot penetrate dense materials. The further away, the more geometrically the radiation intensity declines. Concrete or solid rock is ideal, water is very good if closed so that particles do not fall into the water you are using as a barrier. If you can make a nest for your family, with as much heavy weight over and around you as you can gather or stack, you will reduce or defeat the impact of Gamma radiation from fallout. If you remain in your home, be sure you can prevent easy access into your house by marauders. Some lumber and a skill saw along with a screw gun and some long decking screws will enable you to make it too hard for a casual intruder to make entry. more later

Alric | 04-25-2006 04:43 AM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... I decided that no matter what happens, unless my house gets set on fire I am going to stay here. I don't think I can make it anywhere trying to bug out so I am not going to try. I think trying to do anything at last minute is a mistake. Might as well just go with what you got.

wallew | 04-25-2006 12:12 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... Multiple routes highlighted on three maps that are duplicates of one another. A lot of camping/bugout stuff is ALWAYS ready to go. Just have to load the deuce and go. With the top up on the deuce, WE HAVE our shelter with us. The bed is 7 ft wide, 12 ft long and the top is just short of 6 ft tall. Will hold LOTS all of our bug out stuff. Tools, weapons, ammo out the wazoo, food, water, etc. THEN we start loading personal possession we don't want to see stolen. THEN we start loading firewood. I am in the process of selling my 91 GMC Suburban. Once I deliver it to my sister & BIL I will be purchasing a military M1009 (84 - 86 diesel Blazer). If it happens after that then we have two vehicles. And both are REALLY STOUT. Having the second vehicle gives us GREAT flexibility. I will hook a milsurplus towbar to the blazer and tow it behind the deuce and it won't effect mpg. It will make an EXCELLENT trailer. And once we get to where we are going (sister & BIL's ranch) we can unhook it and we have an extra set of wheels. My BIGGEST concern is that we won't get ANY notice if it's a Nuke or worse multiple Nukes. TPTB won't want to 'panic' the population unnecessisarily. They would rather we just go about our business until things go BOOM. So then IF you are in an impact zone (outside that seven mile circle) you will have to wait until things settle down for a day or two at least. THEN sneek out in the middle of the night. Night vision will come in handy for this. Also for security purposes. Not that you will be using them to fight with, but from an awareness of your surroundings type of situation, a small hand held NV monocular will come in real handy. Just things rumbling around my vacant brain.

Book | 04-25-2006 12:13 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... Quote:
more later -money matters
Title of this GIM section: Survival Prep Preparing for survival in case things get real bad..

Ponce Cuba | 04-25-2006 12:27 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... Suggestion...... buy a small 4 X 6 trailer and keep it loaded at all time with your stuff that wont get damage like sleeping bags, tent, cooking stuff, fuel, durable food, ax, machete, rope and so on......this way all that you will have to do is to hook it up and you wont waste time running around trying to find stuff at the last minute......doing this will save you at least two hours where minutes will count. Perishable food, guns, ammo, more water and gas.......and your family of course......can be loaded at the last minute in half an hour. As time goes by you can think about it and add more stuff to your trailer :clap2:

wallew | 04-25-2006 12:54 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... Ponce, Great suggestion. I have two spots in my basement for storage of this type of stuff. The first is our pantry. The second is everything else (including water). All we have to do is drop all food into clear plastic boxes (w/clamshell lids) and that goes in the deuce. The rest of the stuff is already packed in their own containers (generally green) and it all goes in the deuce. Fuel is stored outside, as I feel it's just safer to keep flammables outside instead of inside. In a true SHTF scenario, I would move all the flammables from storage to our enclosed porch. A little closer, easier to defend and still outside. Have I missed anything?

money matters | 04-25-2006 02:17 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... The Army 6x6 trucks are amazing. If you have a 3/4 ton 4x4 truck you can tow just about anything. If yours is diesel, you can likely get about 700 or more miles of range on your onboard fuel. Pulling a trailer even a huge one will hardly impact your mileage with a diesel. That said, if you want a bug-out vehicle, an RV makes a super tool. Motorhomes are kind of unwieldy in tight places, but they will serve. Just try to begin your "vacation" before the rest of your town decides to get out of Dodge. There are many older and hardly used RV's, especially class C and B which are van conversions and van chassis with motorhome bodies, which can be purchased for very little cash. Most have not been driven much. Owners just get tired and let them sit. Some do the maintenance but don't drive them much. Who knows why? Yet, look in your paper, on Ebay, or AutoTrader. For Under $3k, you can likely find a 15 year old gas powered vehicle that is in good shape. To be safe have it inspected and change all fluids and oils etc, get a tuneup maybe a valve adjustment and new tires. Pay attention to the load carrying capacity. You want as much as you can get. A 454 or 460 V-8 can deliver the power you need. Load one of these up and get a tow dolly or hitch for your auto or small SUV and you are set to relocate. If you buy a set of chains, you'll be able to drive your rig almost anywhere. Chains work great in mud. Sure it is slow going, but they work. An older Suburban is about as good; just no bathroom, kitchen or sleeping accomodations. You might find a 4x4 Suburban for about $2500 or less and if the motor and trans are in good shape, you have a truck with a covered bed you can sleep in once it is unloaded. Plus, tow a trailer or another vehicle if you want.

Alric | 04-25-2006 02:25 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... You should try packing up all your stuff one day and see how long it takes.

DrillAndFill | 04-25-2006 02:39 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... Relax: You will have plenty of time to pack, because the road out of your city will be jammed for weeks. Any situation dire enough result in the preparations folks are discussing here will result in the jamming, closure and destruction of most roads. Get together what you need now, particularly lightweight items useful for barter. Bottles of alcohol, ammunition, precious metals. Secure a source of drinkable water for as long a period as possible. Barring something truly nasty such as a nuclear explosion nearby, you are probably better off in the short term, and maybe even the long term, staying put. I would suggest forming community connections -- by which I do not mean caring-and-sustainable kumbayah microbus spiritualists, but rather specialists in violence: men with guns, thugs, mobsters to whom you pay protection or whom you can control. There will be some sort of local government forming fairly quickly, you can be sure. If a local warlord materializes, he will want followers and stability, so fall in behind him: whatever it costs you will probably be worth it in the long term, particularly if you pick a strong and sane individual. He will want resources and tribute, but being a minor lord in a feudalistic society beats being a serf. Consider trafficking in drugs, weapons, and prostitutes, all under the protection of the local hierarchy -- get into the fundamental industries quickly. If no local authority emerges, consider consolidating power for yourself. You will need muscle, preferably strong young men with little property who are looking to be led: such men are plentiful even in good economic times. Manipulate them through their fear of people who are different from them: for some reason, men will blame people of other races and religions for their problems when given the chance, no matter who is really exploiting them. You will be exploiting them, but if you keep their focus on minorities or immigrants, they will ignore anything that those with real power actually do to them. Form a large pool of bodyguards and henchmen, in three distinct, independent organizations, working for you but against each other. Provide protection for the locals, who, beyond all the bravado about America and Freedom are looking for someone to rule and protect them, and control the local sex, drugs, weapons, and, if possible, food industries. Water is also key here. You will need to spill blood, to do dirty deeds, both to keep people on edge and establish a baseline as to how far you are willing to go. Do not shirk from killing, as most are followers, and more will survive in the long term if there is blood spilled in the short term. I suggest biographies of Pol Pot, L. Ron Hubbard, but most particularly Stalin. A golden time is coming: time to clean house in America and get back to efficient, small government and a cleaner vision of the hierarchical society Americans have always looked to. People need to know their place: remember this, and you will survive.

money matters | 04-25-2006 02:59 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... Really nice to organize your gear in stuff you can carry and load easily. Plastic bins are very good. You likely have luggage that can serve. Resale shops often have tons of cordura nylon luggage, packs, and carry cases at giveaway prices. you might take duct tape and label what's in which. Nice to have some spare fuel to carry with. Extend your range. Barter item, fire starter. Knives are a very expensive proposition, if you buy outdoorsman type gear. Maybe you already have Chicago Cutlery, Sabatier or other good kitchen knives? They will work fine, likely better. Big ones, paring knives etc. All superb for what you will need. Plastic cups and plates if durable will also serve from your kitchen. How about cast iron skillets and pots? Heavy Stainless like Revere or Farber? Most everything you have in your kitchen will serve you elsewhere. Don't forget some dishsoap and some 3M scrubbers. You can use sand later. The queen of outdoor cooking is a big Dutch Oven with feet and a lid that has a lip to keep coals on it. Nice to also have a large cast iron or steel plate for a griddle. Make sure you have a sharpening stone for your knives. Pot holders or welders gloves and some dishcloths will come in handy. You can boil water in just about anything, but a perking coffee pot is a good thing. Maybe you just want instant for the first week or two you are relocated. Don't forget several can openers. If you are somewhere that gets cold in Fall etc, take some outerwear. Down jackets make good pillows if you put em in a stuff sack. Foam pads make decent mattresses for inside a vehicle or in a truck bed. You want ensolite or waterproofed padding for outside use. Heavy duty trash bags, esp the contractor size are good for almost anything. You can make a quick rain jacket out of one, or use as an emergency sleeping bag. First Aid kit is essential. Carry a gallon of newly purchased PLAIN Hypochlorite Bleach to purify water. Nice to have a stash of $5 bills and some other small currency. How about a couple of rolls of quarters? You might find a vending machine. Likely, you can stash some extra brake and trans fluid in your engine compartment. Maybe a small greasegun for zerks and a qt of 90wt oil for your differential. Carry about a yard of cotton flannel. If there is a lot of crap in the air, dust or dirt, you can prefilter your air intake. Bungee cords came in handy for lots of things. Keep some rope handy for tying stuff to your roof rack or just securring it there. You can rig some kind of a fastening system if you have enough rope. Just remember to run the rope through the door openings and not the windows, otherwise the doors won't open. Some 2x4s would likely work to make a more rigid temporary roof rack. Make sure you have windshield washer reservoir topped off, and carry an extra headlight, maybe a cigarette lighter Q-beam light. Always nice to see where you are going before you turn off the road. CB radios or Family Band FM radios are nice if travelling in a group. Family band radios can help you back a big rig if you are unsure or have no rear camera. Always inspect where you are going before you get there, once you are "off-road". A heavy vehicle can go many places if the driver goes slow and is cautious. You may need a "cheater bar" to change a wheel on an RV or big pickup truck. Nice to have a decent jack. If you are going off road, you likely have or need a Hi-Lift jack. Get the 48" one; you can use it as a winch. A come-along is a great tool to have also. You can rig tarps off the side of your vehicle. Really easy if you have an RV or a roof rack. If your truck does not have a camper shell, try using PVC pipe, the biggest that will fit in the bed openings. you can buy a fittings and glue up a frame that you can cover with a tarp for about $20. Fill the frame uprights with sand if you want more stability and durabilty. You might even be able to extend this frame in height when you are parked; but for travel stay at or below your roofline. Everybody knows about taking documents and papers. You have to have birth certificates to come back into America. British Columbia and Alberta would be a great place for a "vacation". Lots of nice parks getting ready to open. Spectacular scenery. You can likely cover about 1000 miles per day driving, if you push it, stopping only for fuel. RV's are nice that way. Nice to have a portable chemical toilet if travelling with your family.

Alric | 04-25-2006 03:32 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... In a real SHTF emergency, I think if it takes you more than 10 minutes to leave your almost doomed to get stuck in traffic. And if you take an hour because your loading an entire truck full of stuff, your really in trouble. Then again depending on what happened you might be able to affored to sit in traffic for hours on end. If its a hurricane with 2 days notice its not a problem, if you get nuked your basicly dead. Theres a lot of stuff between the two though.

Book | 04-25-2006 03:55 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... Quote:
Consider trafficking in drugs, weapons, and prostitutes, all under the protection of the local hierarchy -- get into the fundamental industries quickly. -DrillAndFill
I didn't realize you were a Fundy. :smile:

wallew | 04-25-2006 05:28 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric In a real SHTF emergency, I think if it takes you more than 10 minutes to leave your almost doomed to get stuck in traffic. And if you take an hour because your loading an entire truck full of stuff, your really in trouble.
Actually, it depends on WHERE you live and how you can get out. Here in Denver, MOST idiots will clog the freeway north, south, east and west. Our routes (yes we have several already marked) will take us NO WHERE NEAR any of that. On our bug out route, there is ONLY one freeway we will have to cross in the middle of nowhere. THAT will be the one spot I will fear before we get across. And we may pass across it several miles either upstream or downstream from that spot on open ground, where I can see problems coming. My deuce has one 50 gallon fuel tank already. I'm in the process of purchasing another one. And then there are the many jerry cans already filled with diesel. And that doesn't even address the multiple 15 gallon barrels that have diesel in them also. My range exceeds the distance I will be traveling by a factor of three. So that's not an issue. The back of my deuce can carry way MORE than we have and intend to carry. And if this SHTF does not occur until after I get my diesel Blazer, I will have a 'trailer' that is hooked to the rear of the deuce and gives me even more storage. We planned this years ago. Kind of spin off from living in SF bay area where we first started emergency preparedness plans back in 1988. So yeah, we have been fine tuning our bug out plans for years.

money matters | 04-25-2006 05:55 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... Have you guys been following Jim Sinclair's page? http://www.jsmineset.com/ Lots of news reports and links that show just how HOT the Iran thing is getting. This may be a trigger event. What is your Line In The Sand, which will give you a go signal? Do you have a Shortwave receiver so you can get international news? If this turns into the real deal, are you able to respond and act? Will you be more afraid of looking foolish (if a false alarm), and therfore, wait and see; beyond your line? Got your fuel topped off and gear organized?

Ponce Cuba | 04-25-2006 06:12 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... I say that you should have at least five 5 gallons of gasoline at all time and rotate them every three months....... anytime you tank gets half empty fill it up right away (you have to use the gas anyway). Again......your best bet is to have a loaded trailer ready to roll at all time... however, if you see that you are to late in leaving then stay behind for at least two weeks AND THEN take leave. Your extra five 5 gallons of gas will come handy and it will give you at least an extra 500 to 700 miles.

money matters | 04-26-2006 01:27 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... I saw an internet article yesterday that detailed a high school competition. These guys were using a 3.5 hp Briggs and Stratton motor to move a "car". Maybe a go cart type deal, I don't know; but, they were getting over 1,000 MPG moving the vehicle around the track at about 20mph. When it comes to an economy car, i think you have little room to carry anything else if you are packing 25 gals of extra fuel. Not like Blitz or other fuel carriers stack well, so you have wasted space. Maybe a fuel bladder??? If you have a vehicle that is going to average 30mpg and haul your getaway stuff; more power to you! If you pull a trailer with a Honda Civic, I doubt you will get even half of your usual economy, and may lose even more if you have to start/stop a lot. If you are pulling 4x6 trailer, you could likely carry another ton of weight in terms of payload, if the trailer and its axle was rated for it. A 12x6 with dual axles will carry about 5500 lbs. If you have a Powerstroke Diesel, you can haul a full load at 80mph and not even know it is there. (Ask me how I know.) Any American Pickup with a turbo diesel, mid-90's vintage or later will do this and still get 16mpg or better. Even a crew cab, loaded to the gills. If you are using an economy car to bug-out, you need to get the weight rating of the car and consider it. Are your tires fairly new, and in good shape? How about shock absorbers, sway bars, springs? If your suspension is not up to the task, you will not be safe carrying any kind of a load. Is your spare tire inflated properly? Know where your jack and tire change kit are; and how to use them? Got a spare tire for your trailer? Maybe you need 2 spares for each, if you're going a long way? You might want to test your load. Pack up your gear and drive in some rush hour or stop & go traffic. Fill up your tank before and after. Zero your odometer counter or write down you odometer reading before and after. KNOW the mileage range you have to work with. Extrapolate your usable range and divide by half. If you count on using the last vapors of your fuel tank, you are simply being foolish. Plan for the worst, pray for the best. Did I mention you ought to tune up your vehicle and change all the fluids RIGHT NOW? How is your battery and starter??? Got a spare key? Got several???

Waypoint-Trading | 04-26-2006 01:41 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... [quote=DrillAndFill]Relax: You will have plenty of time to pack, because the road out of your city will be jammed for weeks. Any situation dire enough result in the preparations folks are discussing here will result in the jamming, closure and destruction of most roads. Exactly! Make "Fort Home" the place to be until you need to leave when things become uninhabitable. Besides, where will you go that will be safer if you have planned well? :rock:

Alric | 04-26-2006 02:14 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... If you can I think the best thing is you have supplies already at the bugout spot. Of course then you have to make it there but if you had to you could walk because you don't need to carry much.

Ponce Cuba | 04-26-2006 02:19 PM
Re: Last Minute Considerations.... You got it Alric.......why wait till tomorrow what you can do today?

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