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Mike Tyson | 12-16-2008 05:28 PM
Post Internet/TV Assuming the internet and TV went down for a few weeks/months...what would be the best way of obtaining information on what's going on in the outside world? Don't know a thing about it, but is this where HAM/Short wave would come into play? Thanks!

Ralleia | 12-16-2008 05:51 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV I think you hit the nail on the head. How's your morse code?

phideaux | 12-16-2008 06:04 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralleia (Post 1469136) I think you hit the nail on the head. How's your morse code?
Hey, Morse code saved the world in Independence Day.:cry1: (or did it? http://www.coverups.com/moviecoverups/id4.htm)

Ralleia | 12-16-2008 06:12 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV The morse code bit was one of most believable parts of the whole deal. The most unbelievable the bit about designing a computer virus to infect the mothership.

Zusn | 12-16-2008 06:45 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralleia (Post 1469136) I think you hit the nail on the head. How's your morse code?
The morse code requirement has been dropped for the General Class license!!! They basically give away licenses now. I'm working on upgrading to General so I can operate on the HF bands. A mormon coworker of mine says that his church is pushing many of the members to get their HAM license. They mapped where everyone lives and divided it up into small sections. There is a member responsible for each section. If/when TSHTF, the members responsible for each section will check on the families in their section and communicate the status of that section via radio. Get into HAM radio. Find a local HAM club and learn. It's the only source of worldwide communication that no one can "turn off" on you. The tests to get your license are as follows: Technician (Operate 50MHz and above) - 25 question multiple choice General (10m to 160m. Think Close to CB frequencies through shortwave) - 35 question multiple choice www.arrl.org <- I'm not suggestion anyone join, just do a search for local clubs in your area www.qrz.com <- HAM forum www.aesham.com <- Download their catalog in PDF www.hamradio.com <- Download their catalog in PDF www.ncvec.org/page.php?id=338 <- The left frame has the links to the question pools for all 3 licenses. They are the complete pool that the actual test questions are drawn from. It doesn't take much to memorize the answers to the questions. Not the preferred method for getting started in amateur radio, but it works.

Ralleia | 12-16-2008 06:53 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Wow. Thanks for the info. When I was in high school I remember working through over a dozen chapters of text plus trying to become proficient in code! Will check into it tomorrow. :yippee:

Bill843 | 12-16-2008 06:59 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Tyson (Post 1469084) Assuming the internet and TV went down for a few weeks/months...what would be the best way of obtaining information on what's going on in the outside world? Don't know a thing about it, but is this where HAM/Short wave would come into play? Thanks!
Yes. In Illinois and using a portable receiver, I can hear broadcast stations in Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia. I have heard hams talking from all over the US, on the same discussion (like, one guy in Maine, another in Florida, and a third in Utah, all in on the same conversation). A good antenna is a must, but can be done cheaply and easily. Also, to clarify a bit: a "ham radio" broadcasts on shortwaves. A ham radio functions as a transmitter and a receiver. A transmitter needs a proper antenna to work well, just any piece of wire won't do. A "shortwave" radio is only a receiver. A receiver antenna is much less critical than a transmitter's, even a piece of plain wire will work well. ----- This brings up an interesting subject.... In the US (and pretty much every other country in the world) you are supposed to be licensed by the gov't to operate a shortwave transmitter. You pay a small fee, take a technical test and assuming you pass, that's it. You don't need to learn Morse code anymore; the test subject matter is about safely and legally operating the equipment, and some protocols that are followed. The odd part here is that there's no license required to purchase ham radios. Furthermore, analog ham transmitting radios that are 20-30 years old but that work perfectly fine can be had very cheaply so on places like Craigslist, the local want ads or hamfests/swap meets. Radios that are 30-40 yr old and priced at $50-$100 is not unusual. In the event the gov't turns truly tyrannical and wants to restrict ham radio operation, they already have a list of people who have ham licenses to go after. But if you buy a radio (or three) now and don't get a license, the government won't have any way to know you have it. The downside is that you will have a hard time talking to anyone before TSHTF. Ham rules say you're not supposed to talk to anyone not giving a valid callsign. You can still use one for listening of course, but then, you could just buy a new $50 digital portable for that. -end-

Mike Tyson | 12-17-2008 03:02 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Wow-this is great info guys-was wondering about the licensing part. Thanks so much to all!

Glass | 12-17-2008 05:00 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1469241) Yes. In Illinois and using a portable receiver, I can hear broadcast stations in Europe, Africa, Asia and Australia. I have heard hams talking from all over the US, on the same discussion (like, one guy in Maine, another in Florida, and a third in Utah, all in on the same conversation). A good antenna is a must, but can be done cheaply and easily. Also, to clarify a bit: a "ham radio" broadcasts on shortwaves. A ham radio functions as a transmitter and a receiver. A transmitter needs a proper antenna to work well, just any piece of wire won't do. A "shortwave" radio is only a receiver. A receiver antenna is much less critical than a transmitter's, even a piece of plain wire will work well. ----- This brings up an interesting subject.... In the US (and pretty much every other country in the world) you are supposed to be licensed by the gov't to operate a shortwave transmitter. You pay a small fee, take a technical test and assuming you pass, that's it. You don't need to learn Morse code anymore; the test subject matter is about safely and legally operating the equipment, and some protocols that are followed. The odd part here is that there's no license required to purchase ham radios. Furthermore, analog ham transmitting radios that are 20-30 years old but that work perfectly fine can be had very cheaply so on places like Craigslist, the local want ads or hamfests/swap meets. Radios that are 30-40 yr old and priced at $50-$100 is not unusual. In the event the gov't turns truly tyrannical and wants to restrict ham radio operation, they already have a list of people who have ham licenses to go after. But if you buy a radio (or three) now and don't get a license, the government won't have any way to know you have it. The downside is that you will have a hard time talking to anyone before TSHTF. Ham rules say you're not supposed to talk to anyone not giving a valid callsign. You can still use one for listening of course, but then, you could just buy a new $50 digital portable for that. -end-
Bill's right, you don't need a license to purchase a HAM radio. You only need a license to transmit. In SHTF scenarios having communications is more important that correct operator "on air protocols". Still you would need to know how to use the radio, how to find people, how to find clear frequencies. Nothing particularly complex. Setting up your radio, power, antenna etc can involve injury if not done correctly. You might zap yourself. Just 1 last thing on the license. When/If TEOTWAWKI happens all of those licensed dilligent HAM radio operators are not going to have anywhere to renew their licenses anyway so they will eventually become pirates...... check out Eham.net for lots of information on radios, antennas etc. How to make emergency radio kits in tote boxes which are ideal for bug out situations.

Zusn | 12-17-2008 05:48 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass (Post 1470980) Bill's right, you don't need a license to purchase a HAM radio. You only need a license to transmit. In SHTF scenarios having communications is more important that correct operator "on air protocols". Still you would need to know how to use the radio, how to find people, how to find clear frequencies. Nothing particularly complex. Setting up your radio, power, antenna etc can involve injury if not done correctly. You might zap yourself. Just 1 last thing on the license. When/If TEOTWAWKI happens all of those licensed dilligent HAM radio operators are not going to have anywhere to renew their licenses anyway so they will eventually become pirates...... check out Eham.net for lots of information on radios, antennas etc. How to make emergency radio kits in tote boxes which are ideal for bug out situations.
Just about any radio equipment can be purchased without any sort of license. The whole point of getting a HAM license is to legally get experience using the equipment now. The HAM community is chock full of people waiting to help someone new. They don't look too kindly upon those operating without a license and they will not help them. There are plenty of people right now abusing the amateur radio bands. Always have been, always will. I see no point in it. The license is dirt cheap and it's good for 10 years. Many of the older HAM guys are electrical engineers and radio is more than just a hobby to them. They went though a ton of crap back in the day to get a tiny bit of frequency allowance when licenses weren't just handed out. Each license upgrade was a big challenge. All of that is gone and has been replaced by a short multiple choice test. No morse code, no drawing electrical schematics, etc. You can study for a week and pass the tests giving you the same frequency privileges they worked for years to get. To me, getting your license is a matter of respect. Sure, in TSHTF situation, all rules are off and anything goes. We're not living in that situation. Till then, I suggest to join a local group, take the test, get the license, learn as much as you can, make new contacts around the country/world.

Glass | 12-17-2008 07:47 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by Zusn (Post 1471086) Just about any radio equipment can be purchased without any sort of license. The whole point of getting a HAM license is to legally get experience using the equipment now. The HAM community is chock full of people waiting to help someone new. They don't look too kindly upon those operating without a license and they will not help them. There are plenty of people right now abusing the amateur radio bands. Always have been, always will. I see no point in it. The license is dirt cheap and it's good for 10 years. Many of the older HAM guys are electrical engineers and radio is more than just a hobby to them. They went though a ton of crap back in the day to get a tiny bit of frequency allowance when licenses weren't just handed out. Each license upgrade was a big challenge. All of that is gone and has been replaced by a short multiple choice test. No morse code, no drawing electrical schematics, etc. You can study for a week and pass the tests giving you the same frequency privileges they worked for years to get. To me, getting your license is a matter of respect. Sure, in TSHTF situation, all rules are off and anything goes. We're not living in that situation. Till then, I suggest to join a local group, take the test, get the license, learn as much as you can, make new contacts around the country/world.
Yes I agree with you as well. I am a license holder and my warning about zapping yourself stems from that. There is a wealth of information and there is a world wide push to bring in new younger operators to keep the knowledge alive and growing. There is a very extensive thread already here at GIM. People interested should do a quick search for HAM radio. While there are still "authorities" out there the HAM operators are just about the fiercest self regulators around. Watchout if you are caught transmitting without a license. And I promise you they will find you.

Zusn | 12-17-2008 07:55 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass (Post 1471275) Watchout if you are caught transmitting without a license. And I promise you they will find you.
Some of those guys get off on that!! They take the airwaves VERY serious! Of course, some guys go overboard too with how things are done. All in all, it's a great hobby. I need to stop screwing around and take my test so I can upgrade to General. Then I can start spending more money on equipment. :wink:

IGrok | 12-17-2008 09:06 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by Zusn (Post 1471086) Just about any radio equipment can be purchased without any sort of license. The whole point of getting a HAM license is to legally get experience using the equipment now. The HAM community is chock full of people waiting to help someone new. They don't look too kindly upon those operating without a license and they will not help them. There are plenty of people right now abusing the amateur radio bands. Always have been, always will. I see no point in it. The license is dirt cheap and it's good for 10 years. Many of the older HAM guys are electrical engineers and radio is more than just a hobby to them. They went though a ton of crap back in the day to get a tiny bit of frequency allowance when licenses weren't just handed out. Each license upgrade was a big challenge. All of that is gone and has been replaced by a short multiple choice test. No morse code, no drawing electrical schematics, etc. You can study for a week and pass the tests giving you the same frequency privileges they worked for years to get. To me, getting your license is a matter of respect. Sure, in TSHTF situation, all rules are off and anything goes. We're not living in that situation. Till then, I suggest to join a local group, take the test, get the license, learn as much as you can, make new contacts around the country/world.
The reason license requirements were loosened was because it was a dying hobby/craft. In a attempt to increase the number of people interested in HAM radio the FCC dropped alot of the stuff that technology has passed by. Is everything transmitted today all sideband?

JoBob | 12-17-2008 09:20 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by Zusn (Post 1471086) Sure, in TSHTF situation, all rules are off and anything goes. We're not living in that situation. Till then, I suggest to join a local group, take the test, get the license, learn as much as you can, make new contacts around the country/world.
Well put, Zusn. I'm a code-qualified Extra and have held all the lower classes over the past 40 years. I have learned most of the really practical skills i have through association with other Hams. Anyone can buy a box and plug it in but that's going to do you no good in a crisis. Learning about propagation, antennas, and emergency operations comes best from learning through those who have gone through the "hard knocks" school before you. Hams are a good bunch if they know you want help. No, you don't need CW but it is the very best method of communicating very reliably with minimum power. In a SHTF situation, you can work the world with two watts with CW. Wattage will be hard to come by, like food or other resources. Developing CW skills is another method of getting your preps ready. :emotions16:

JoBob | 12-17-2008 09:27 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by IGrok (Post 1471410) Is everything transmitted today all sideband?
Not at all! There are all kinds of digital modes and every one is more reliable than SSB. With PSK32, computer-to-computer via Ham transmitter gives perfect results and you can't hear the signal with your ears! On any day on thee Ham bands, you will hear as many digital signals as you do the messy, W I D E, overlapping SSB signals. CW lives quite well!

budfox | 12-17-2008 09:33 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV I would invest in a short wave radio as well. I also have a couple sets of two-way radios for local use. (Up to 8 miles) Here is a 'must have' as well. http://www.ccrane.com/radios/wind-up...ncy-radio.aspx http://www.ccrane.com/images/medium/...adio-black.jpg

Tallships | 12-17-2008 09:34 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV I only have shortwave receivers. One from the WWII era.

Glass | 12-17-2008 09:42 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by JoBob (Post 1471438) Well put, Zusn. I'm a code-qualified Extra and have held all the lower classes over the past 40 years. I have learned most of the really practical skills i have through association with other Hams. Anyone can buy a box and plug it in but that's going to do you no good in a crisis. Learning about propagation, antennas, and emergency operations comes best from learning through those who have gone through the "hard knocks" school before you. Hams are a good bunch if they know you want help. No, you don't need CW but it is the very best method of communicating very reliably with minimum power. In a SHTF situation, you can work the world with two watts with CW. Wattage will be hard to come by, like food or other resources. Developing CW skills is another method of getting your preps ready. :emotions16:
K+ I must be feeling especially agreeable today. :biggrin: I also think CW/morse is a very valauable skill. As you point out, in difficult conditions the CW signal will have a better chance of getting through than voice. I wanted to ask if you could recommend any good resources for learning cw please? And many people don't realise how many different aspects there are. There are people into transmitting data or using modems over the bands, there is fox hunting or tracking, there are the low power guys who go around the world on just a couple watts, there are repeater guys who like to setup and maintain repeater networks in cities and country towns all over the country - ARRL. There are the guys into emergency response, others in to stealth with antennas....mostly because housing estates these days don't like big antennas poking above roofs. There are the internet linking guys who link UHF CB repeaters in cities all around the planet. With a $100 radio you can talk to anyone the world over.... granted in SHTF it might not work anymore.... but your radio is still good... Point to point independant communications.

Zusn | 12-17-2008 10:58 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by IGrok (Post 1471410) The reason license requirements were loosened was because it was a dying hobby/craft. In a attempt to increase the number of people interested in HAM radio the FCC dropped alot of the stuff that technology has passed by. Is everything transmitted today all sideband?
Yes, I agree that it is a dying hobby and that's one of the reasons for the lowering of the license standards. People today want to gab on their cell phone, stay up all night on their Xbox and smack it around to internet porn. Who needs a radio when there's HDTV and on demand movies. Technology has come a VERY long way! BUT, it ALL relies on other systems functioning properly. When the HDTV cable/sat signal stops, a TV is just a wall ornament (unless one wants to watch a DVD). When the internet connection goes down, no more email and instant message. When the cell tower stops working, the cell phone becomes an expensive phone book. Technology is great when it works. TSHTF scenario, all that stuff may be down for long stretches at a time. Backup communication via HAM radio is easy to set up. The HAM world has more stuff to offer than anyone realizes. And there's plenty of technology.

Zusn | 12-17-2008 11:22 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by Glass (Post 1471482) I wanted to ask if you could recommend any good resources for learning cw please?
I have a really good program, but it's not with me right now. I've been wanting to copy the [gasp] tapes to mp3. If/when I do, maybe I'll share :wink:

mick silver | 12-18-2008 12:00 AM
Re: Post Internet/TV i got a good cb at a truck stop some time back an a few 2 way walk talke on the cheap side with charger

Bill843 | 12-22-2008 05:31 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by IGrok (Post 1471410) ...Is everything transmitted today all sideband?
Most of the broadcasters (like BBC and Radio Havana) transmit CW--that is, non-SSB. Any shortwave radio can receive those. Many of the hams I've picked up were transmitting SSB. Right now, they're pretty boring to listen to, but in "interesting times" they're the ones you're going to want to hear--not the Ministry of Truth broadcasts in CW. Transmitting SSB allows sending a signal farther with a given amount of power, and still provides a recognizable voice for your listeners to hear. That's something that Morse and other digital text modes can't do. There are various computer-generated Morse or digital things you hear going on too. Plus there is some kind of voice-type transmission that sounds kinda like what SSB sounds like when you listen to it in CW mode, but that my $140 SSB-capable radio cannot tune in properly. Anybody know what this is? ------ The internet is open for most of the planet, but that could change- http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/22/146259 "Censorship Minister Stephen Conroy announced today that the Australian Internet Filters will be extended to block peer-to-peer traffic, saying, 'Technology that filters peer-to-peer and BitTorrent traffic does exist and it is anticipated that the effectiveness of this will be tested in the live pilot trial.' This dashes hopes that Conroy's Labor party had realised filtering could be politically costly at the next election and were about to back down. ... That doesn't matter to you unless you live in Australia, of course. Or maybe not.... http://www.fiercebroadbandwireless.c...ion/2008-12-11 How does Obama's broadband New Deal come to fruition? December 11, 2008 — 3:22am ET | By Lynnette Luna President-elect Barack Obama's proclamation this past weekend that broadband and national Internet access must be universal sounded the gong that this priority will be the part of what observers call his "new New Deal," and is making the broadband wireless community downright gaga over the prospects. In the early 20th Century, the New Deal meant money for highway construction and other public works projects, but in the 21st Century, broadband is getting added to the list. ... (article continues) Free wifi got proposed by the FCC during Bush Jr's 2nd term and he nixed the idea. If national wifi becomes available, that puts pressure on private ISP's business--and it also allows the government to decide how all those wifi access points get used. The same people that control mainstream media now would probably really like to control the internet the same exact way--but they cannot control the airwaves. -end-

CajunCoin | 12-22-2008 10:35 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by Zusn (Post 1469219) The morse code requirement has been dropped for the General Class license!!! They basically give away licenses now. I'm working on upgrading to General so I can operate on the HF bands. A mormon coworker of mine says that his church is pushing many of the members to get their HAM license. They mapped where everyone lives and divided it up into small sections. There is a member responsible for each section. If/when TSHTF, the members responsible for each section will check on the families in their section and communicate the status of that section via radio. Get into HAM radio. Find a local HAM club and learn. It's the only source of worldwide communication that no one can "turn off" on you. The tests to get your license are as follows: Technician (Operate 50MHz and above) - 25 question multiple choice General (10m to 160m. Think Close to CB frequencies through shortwave) - 35 question multiple choice www.arrl.org <- I'm not suggestion anyone join, just do a search for local clubs in your area www.qrz.com <- HAM forum www.aesham.com <- Download their catalog in PDF www.hamradio.com <- Download their catalog in PDF www.ncvec.org/page.php?id=338 <- The left frame has the links to the question pools for all 3 licenses. They are the complete pool that the actual test questions are drawn from. It doesn't take much to memorize the answers to the questions. Not the preferred method for getting started in amateur radio, but it works.
The Catholic Church has Mathew 25 groups at the Diocese and Parish level to keep in Touch. Volunteer groups such as Salvation Army and Baptist men's Union have their Ham Corp for disasters. Now with the License not requiring Morse Code they are easy to obtain and really no excuse not to have in your Preps, a VHF/UHF setup, HF Station for Long distance and computer hookups.

CajunCoin | 12-22-2008 11:00 PM
Re: Post Internet/TV Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill843 (Post 1478080) Most of the broadcasters (like BBC and Radio Havana) transmit CW--that is, non-SSB. Any shortwave radio can receive those. Many of the hams I've picked up were transmitting SSB. Right now, they're pretty boring to listen to, but in "interesting times" they're the ones you're going to want to hear--not the Ministry of Truth broadcasts in CW. Transmitting SSB allows sending a signal farther with a given amount of power, and still provides a recognizable voice for your listeners to hear. That's something that Morse and other digital text modes can't do. There are various computer-generated Morse or digital things you hear going on too. Plus there is some kind of voice-type transmission that sounds kinda like what SSB sounds like when you listen to it in CW mode, but that my $140 SSB-capable radio cannot tune in properly. Anybody know what this is? ------ The internet is open for most of the planet, but that could change--end-
CW means Continous Wave, what most Broadcasters use is AM Amplitude Modulation. SSB is Single SideBand is a compressed form of AM in which a sideband and carrier is striped from the transmission. Easy to decode with a BFO Beat Frequency Oscillator on the IF Intermediate Frequency. Most BFO equipped radios are an art to operate when decoding CW/SSB which help to practice on when using SSB. You could be hearing inverted SSB which is a little harder to decode but convertor is a simple trick, also digital voice is making its appearance on the bands. To learn morse, just download morse tutor. CajunCoin, Advance Class Ham, Old school Morse hand.

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