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mtnman | 09-04-2006 10:23 PM
Primitive Refrigeration Anyone here ever see an Icyball? Makes ice without electricity, any heat source (wood, kero, etc) will do. Not too hard to build either. http://www.ggw.org/~cac/IcyBall/crosley_icyball.html

Wyldwil | 09-04-2006 11:24 PM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration This is extremely interesting...thanks. :wavey:

electric-amish | 09-05-2006 12:06 AM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Mtnman Great find I've been wondering about refrigeration in a pinch. If someone could build one of these probably a small heat source would be enough to vaporize the ammonia and start the process. Thanks E-A

mtnman | 09-05-2006 12:14 AM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 349816) Mtnman Great find I've been wondering about refrigeration in a pinch. If someone could build one of these probably a small heat source would be enough to vaporize the ammonia and start the process. Thanks E-A
Click on the picture of the last one (homemade one) Instructions are found there.

electric-amish | 09-05-2006 12:24 AM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration This is good for its size and lack of electric. Thanks again E-A

TheSimpleton | 09-05-2006 09:33 AM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Or you could just pull an absorbion fridge from an old dead camper. There are full-size fridges that run on kerosene as well. Great idea though, and the simpler the better for the Simpletons. TS

hoarder | 09-05-2006 09:46 AM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSimpleton (Post 350037) Or you could just pull an absorbion fridge from an old dead camper. TS
I've been hunting for one, but it seems there has been a run on them lately. I guess a lot of people are worried TS will HTF. New Servels are $1200 and up now.

demosfen | 09-05-2006 09:53 AM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration there is a portable model for $400+ http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/prod...ProductID=4453

hoarder | 09-05-2006 10:02 AM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Quote:
Originally Posted by demosfen (Post 350050) there is a portable model for $400+ http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/prod...ProductID=4453
Thanks. The vast majorty of used propane fridges are about 8 cubic foot, almost 2 of which is freezer. That's the kind I want. The freezer is absolutely necessary. A couple years ago there were used ones all over. Not any more. The new 8 cu.ft. Servels are the most for your money in spite of all the new competition.

SilverbackAg | 09-05-2006 09:10 PM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 350061) Thanks. The vast majorty of used propane fridges are about 8 cubic foot, almost 2 of which is freezer. That's the kind I want. The freezer is absolutely necessary. A couple years ago there were used ones all over. Not any more. The new 8 cu.ft. Servels are the most for your money in spite of all the new competition.
Good fridges. Parents have had one in use for 10 years (part of their solar system). There is nothing to break or go bad on them---no moving parts. I've been kinda looking for a "transition" ice box. These are steel ice boxes that were introduced about the same time as the refridgerator but used ice. We had one at the old deer cabin and it would hold ice and cool an approximately 10 cu foot area for 6-7 days. Unfortunately, some azz hole shot it up. Idea would be to cut ice from a pond, pack in a pit covered with sawdust; ice should last until May-June timeframe.

southfork | 09-05-2006 09:15 PM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Used to fish in Canada every year, they had ice houses, we normally went around august, they still had plenty of ice, the ice house was built of logs, large hole dug in it, ice kept covered in peat, keeps very well.

hoarder | 09-05-2006 09:20 PM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbackMP (Post 350727) Idea would be to cut ice from a pond, pack in a pit covered with sawdust; ice should last until May-June timeframe.
I've read where they used to do that in Montana, in the days before styrofoam! I for the life of me can't visualize ice lasting that long. If I were to try, I'd build it chest style and have about 8 inches of foam insulation. Now to think of the work involved in harvesting ice from a pond....

SilverbackAg | 09-05-2006 09:24 PM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 350740) Now to think of the work involved in harvesting ice from a pond....
Shouln't be too hard---I'm not thinking of hand powered saws like the ol' days. I'm thinking cordless sawza (sp?) or chainsaw. Work smarter, not harder :D

Ponce Cuba | 09-05-2006 10:10 PM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration In the old days of the west they used to bring in ice from Alaska to San Francisco aboard ship, it was two feet of sawdust at the bottom and then three more feet of sawdust on top...... it worked just fine. In my old comp I do have the plans to make a non-electric frig.... one of this days I'll hook it up again (the comp) and bring out that site.

Halophyte | 09-05-2006 11:44 PM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration 1 Attachment(s) Any LP gas refrigerator can be easily converted to burn kerosene or lamp oil. Locate an Alladin mantle and burner assembly and mount to a custom made fuel tank that will tuck under the absorber tank, hopefully at least a couple gallon capacity. Position the burner mantle close under the flue bonnet. Adjustment of lamp brightness will vary box temperature. .

Ponce Cuba | 09-06-2006 01:04 AM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Thanks Gasilot good info........ I still remember back in the sugar mill in Cuba when I was a kid this guy used to come around every two days with a block of ice for the ice box (a real one) for .25 cents.

runcible | 09-06-2006 01:24 AM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Why can't a kerosene fridge be converted to run off of a solar reflector rather than a kerosene flame to provide heat? If the insulation is improved, the fridge should last through periods of darkness as well.

bl96S5eu | 09-06-2006 01:25 AM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 349732) Anyone here ever see an Icyball? Makes ice without electricity, any heat source (wood, kero, etc) will do. Not too hard to build either. http://www.ggw.org/~cac/IcyBall/crosley_icyball.html
Good stuff mtnman, thanks for the information.

TheSimpleton | 09-06-2006 08:09 AM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration Just what I was thinking. The plumbing half of an icebox doesn't need circuit boards. That just means more work for you setting it right. Kero would be the bear to use and Aladdins are horribly fussy and mantles and all. However, I don't see how propane is any better. No matter what--Kero, propane, mantles, parts--it all will break or run out of fuel within a year of an emergency. Then you've got an expensive cupboard. Making ice is not what it used to be. You'd be lucky to skim off a 10cm layer some years, whihc makes it hard to do--no plow horses or men on the pond, for instance. It also takes a shed, say 5m high 3m square and either specially insulated walls or an entire sawmill of sawdust. --And where will you get the dust, transport it, and who will be sawing this mountain of wood for sale in a no-electric crisis? Solar would work, but temps would fluctuate badly without help. Wood piping would work perhaps best, as part of a curculator system. Try TE pump like this: http://www.varmaraf.is/engl/prod.htm It would collect sediment if not in a closed system, but is pretty robust. Also for pumping hot wood-stove water to the radiator in the next room. That means you'd need a steady fire, but in a long emergency, you'd probably have one anyway. Iceboxes are a popular antique item and reproductions are available all over. Something like this: http://www.u-bild.com/woodworking-projects/686.htm Hardware at Vandykes.com, for example. I can't imagine how good they would be with modern foams instead of sawdust, but the over/under design is important. There are air flow/air volume things perfected in the era you don't want to have to re-discover. The insides were real tin, however, which is difficult to get. You'd have to think about the proper material. Maybe you welders would use a stainless restaurant sink as a core. In the north, you just seal up a NE room, an old porch say, and it will stay 50f for 8 months of the year. 2 months are too hot in summer and 2 are too cold in winter. That's a walk-in size fridge with almost no work and no cost. Anyway, to me the problem isn't the condenser--any icyball rig would do. The problem is getting even heat and temperature control. That's why ice is good--temps won't fluctuate. Temp fluctuation is harder on food storage than even a higher temp. Personally, a solar freezer might work. Why? While techno-junk is working, you've got a no-work cooler. It can make ice for your fridge and the neighbors and store your freezings. When it breaks, you still have a high-efficiency icebox and a solar panel for other things. It's small and portable and doesn't look like much. You can even borrow the panel for other uses during the day if you don't open the door. In cases aside from an EMP, which is unlikely, it ought to work pretty well. Lehmans.com or Partsonsale.com for instance would have these parts. You could use an solar electric DC resistor as your absorption heat source. Depends on what parts you have in the shed. TS Note to self: get parts for the shed.

hoarder | 09-06-2006 09:29 AM
Re: Primitive Refrigeration This shows which units have a curcuit board: http://www.gasrefrigeration.net/cabi...s_for_sale.htm It has lots of good info on propane fridges. I really don't mind the circuit board which runs on 12VDC. I have 12VDC anyway. I don't see any advantage to kerosene unless it's just more easily obtained. It would probably be easier to fly kerosene out to a remote Alaskan lake than propane due to FAA regulations. I think propane would keep longer than kerosene.

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