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silverharp | 07-12-2007 04:00 AM
Backyard fishing? Has anyone got any good links about raising fish in backyards? or has anyone ever ried it?

shades2 | 07-12-2007 04:08 AM
Re: Backyard fishing? Quote:
Originally Posted by silverharp (Post 661117) Has anyone got any good links about raising fish in backyards? or has anyone ever ried it?
Someone posted something recently along those lines. What sort of fish though, and what size? Best way I think is in a large concrete swimming pool. I have seen a rainbow trout farm operated in this manner very successfully, fully stocked with trout. Cleaning out the pool/pond however is important, as the build up of nitrates will kill the fish, not sure how they managed that side of things, although there was a major water source nearby, so I suspect they flushed it with fresh water to remove the nitrates. It may be feasible to vacuum out the muck on the bottom, then pump out and treat the water and recycle it, but this would require filtration on a commercial scale. If you don't have a creek running through your backyard, or sufficient rainfall, it might not be viable to replace that much water. The aquaculture farms I've seen pictures of, always seem to have dams or a water source nearby. I think they use the water source and pumps to flush the tanks or holding pens, and take the effluent and put it in a form of slurry pit or use it as fertilizer (as it's high in nitrates). There are a few issues such as keeping predatory birds off etc. disease. (Stressed fish usually develop disease. ie. overcrowding etc.) Grow the right species that's in demand and do it properly, and you can make a lot of money.

aeondaze | 07-12-2007 07:47 AM
Re: Backyard fishing? Quote:
Cleaning out the pool/pond however is important, as the build up of nitrates will kill the fish
..actually it is ammonium NH4+ that has a deletrous effect on fish, rasing the pH. Nitrates in small concentration with sufficient dissolved oxygen (D.O.) are ideal for growing plants. Red worm juice -Eisenia foetida - is perfect at turning fish waste into fertilizer/ammoniates --> nitrites ---> nitrates...which is great chemistry for growing plants, even hydroponically, it is the 'ideal' dirty water concept, waste goes in + water----->fish and vegetable comes out, this ofcourse is somewhat of an oversimplification, pathogens can always invade the system, this is why it's 'health' is so important. So you monitor pH, D.O. and clean regularly.

shades2 | 07-12-2007 07:51 AM
Re: Backyard fishing? Quote:
Originally Posted by aeondaze (Post 661200) ..actually it is ammonium NH4+ that has a deletrous effect on fish, rasing the pH. Nitrates in small concentration with sufficient dissolved oxygen (D.O.) are ideal for growing plants. Red worm juice -Eisenia foetida - is perfect at turning fish waste into fertilizer/ammoniates --> nitrites ---> nitrates...which is great chemistry for growing plants, even hydroponically, it is the 'ideal' dirty water concept, waste goes in + water----->fish and vegetable comes out, this ofcourse is somewhat of an oversimplification, pathogens can always invade the system, this is why it's 'health' is so important. So you monitor pH, D.O. and clean regularly.
Thanks for that explanation. I know a bit more now. :)

aeondaze | 07-12-2007 08:01 AM
Re: Backyard fishing? Quote:
So you monitor pH, D.O. and clean regularly.
sorry, I feel i should clarify this statement some. You also monitor T.D.S. - total disolved soldis, this is everything like sodium, chloride, nitrates, nitrites ammoniates, Iron, the lot - if it dissolved it will show up in the solutions conductivity - which is equivalent to dissolved solids...so if you know you have good oxygenation and can remove the excess nitrate and other dissolved solids, you have a fighting chance at closing your waste loop reducing fixed costs considerably, water is always good too...:wink:

bjgnome | 07-12-2007 09:36 AM
Re: Backyard fishing? http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...=134057&page=2 In this thread there is some info regarding aquaponics, which is combined aquaculture/hydroponics. Works along similar lines to what aeondaze was referring to. I never buy farmed fish because they tend to be very dirty and loaded with antibiotics and other chemicals. Then again, the ocean and rivers are pretty scary these days, too. I would consider a small-scale backyard production that would feed me and my family. I would settle for slightly less yield and more peace of mind. My wife also wants me to grow lotus for food, because it is very difficult to find organic lotus in this country.

REV127 | 07-12-2007 10:32 AM
Re: Backyard fishing? They're an invasive species of fish in my state I recently became aware of that is perfect for small scale aquaculture. In fact I believe it could become the aquaculture equivalent of the chicken. The fish is known as the brown hoplo or casadura and is an armored catfish raised for food in South America. I found them in my pond when it recently dried out, they were still going strong in a mudhole after many gar and bowfins had died. They can breathe air and tolerate water conditions that would tear up any other fish I have ever seen. They breed readily in captivity, I managed to net a dozen of them and they were making their bubble nests in my canoe that I filled with high sulphur well water. Because the males develop spurs on their pectoral fins they are easy to sex at a glance. They are not aggressive toward eachother or other fish. By all accounts they are fine table fare, though I've not tried them for myself yet they are highly sought after by immigrants and back in their native range. I believe this species has more potential than tilapia or our native catfish. If you search you can find information regarding existing aquacultural projects utilizing this fish in their native range. They they are a smaller fish, about 8 inches long and only 1-2lbs I believe that with selective breeding you could develop a fish 1ft long. As far as longterm tanks go I'm looking at ferrocement rather than a fiberglass canoe. The ideal setup in my mind would be to place the tanks in your garden or field where you're growing vegetables and have a secondary tank that catches and holds rainwater. This would be your irrigation system, you'd tap water from your fish tanks to water your crops and replenish with clean water from the second tank. Bioballs or an aquaponic setup utilizing heavy feeders would provide a reasonable level of basic water filtration. If you have only a smaller yard to work with I'd incorporate the fish tanks as a water feature in my landscaping and keep the scale small, treating it as a source of suplemental protein. A decent koi setup would be perfectly adequate for brown hoplo, catfish or whatever else you'd like to raise.

undefined | 07-12-2007 08:33 PM
Re: Backyard fishing? I don't post often but this thread caught my eye. The best place I've seen to learn about backyard fish growing (and gardens to clean the water) is here: http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/index.php Some very impressive systems...

RealJack | 07-12-2007 10:24 PM
Re: Backyard fishing? Quote:
The ideal setup in my mind would be to place the tanks in your garden or field where you're growing vegetables and have a secondary tank that catches and holds rainwater
Rev, I'm doing this very thing right now. On the cheap, using a stock water tank and an old waterbed, right in the garden. Yeah, I know, the water bed will likely die after a couple of seasons, but it will help gel the idea at least. I plan to create a small bog about a foot deep right next to the sunken tank. I'll probably only be able to grow a few fish, but the pond itself has a healthy symbiotic relationship to the garden. Snakes, frogs, lizards, birds, dragon flies, bees and flowers. I planted a clumping bamboo called Buddha Belly just off to the side for a little shade from the afternoon sun. Bamboo has edible shoots as well as being good for small building projects outdoors, like fencing and pergola's for vines. I'm also working on a rain catchment swale out in the field and will plant some fig trees, grapes and maybe Blackberry. This site introduces the type of permaculture garden I'm working toward. http://www.safecom.org.au/permaculture.htm

bjgnome | 07-12-2007 11:52 PM
Re: Backyard fishing? Quote:
Originally Posted by undefined (Post 661966) I don't post often but this thread caught my eye. The best place I've seen to learn about backyard fish growing (and gardens to clean the water) is here: http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/index.php Some very impressive systems...
Same fellow in the "garden photos" thread posted above. Joel.

RealJack | 07-17-2007 08:32 PM
Re: Backyard fishing? Well, I just finished putting in my garden pond for a total cost of $0. I do believe I will be able to raise at least a stringer of bream and a dinners worth of crayfish in this setup. I'm hoping to find a few cheap Chinese water chestnut corms to grow in the bog. Or maybe some arrowhead root. Definitely a lily pad or two. If this small scale endeavor works out the way I think it will them I'm going to expand. I'll be on the lookout for old tanks or silo cover material. All ya need to do is dig a hole and drop in a liner, and presto, a pond. The whole setup is just under 200 gallons. Once the ecosystem is functioning with the fish and the bog plants, I'm going to add suspended buckets of river gravel to grow lettuce or chard in. Fun and cheap. Once I get some plantings around maybe I'll show a photo of it. Right now it looks kinda cheesy since I used an old inflatable kiddy pool for the bog liner. :rolleyes_m: I nixed the waterbed idea. Wasn't big enough. At first I thought aquaponics was too technoid and expensive, but the more I think about it, what it really relies on is balance. Once the balance is achieved, then it becomes simple. Just like a garden. Part of the garden. This world of ours wants to feed us, we mainly just need to allow it to do its thing. But I got to tell you, digging three foot holes in the hot sun turns anybody into a redneck. It's hot and humid out there. Florida... Jeesh!

bjgnome | 07-17-2007 11:48 PM
Re: Backyard fishing? Very cool! Consider some sweet potatoes to grow around the pond/bog. They are perrenial and grow like weeds in the Florida climate. They seem to like plenty of water, and if they have that they will just keep spreading out. I live in Martin County, and have been growing an asian variety which is far superior IMO to most of the american varieties. In addition to the delicious tubers, shoots and leaves are edible, and make good forage for livestock. Extremely easy to propogate. Be happy to pass on some shoots i you are ever in the area. Some varieties of taro/malanga do well in a sub-tropical bog. I love water chestnuts and lotus both. The canned stuff just doesn't work for me.

RealJack | 07-18-2007 01:16 AM
Re: Backyard fishing? Hey yeah, I've got sweet potato already growing like crazy very near the pond. Beautiful leaves. I did not know the shoots and leaves were edible. When you say lotus, do you mean the flower, the seeds or the rhizome? This will be my third pond setup. A few years back I built a Japanese water garden with numerous 500 lb. to 1000 lb. stones and grey sandstone pavers. Lots of bonsai trees, shrubs and water plants like Papyrus situated in a modern courtyard setting. Very aesthetic, but not very edible. I was terrorized by a great blue heron that wanted all my fish. Funny birds. This time, almost opposite. I'm opening the door to every little critter that wants to come in. Even Herons. I want it to be practically wild. Eventually self sustaining. No pesticides. No petrol fertilizers. Just heaps and heaps of compost, manure and weeds. Juicy, ripe and full of fruit where you'd have to hack your way through the food with a machete. I'm tired of chasing everything away with law and order. Time to invite the world back home. I've been missing it. :rolleyes_m:

REV127 | 07-18-2007 10:18 AM
Re: Backyard fishing? Some of the pool liners are treated with some kind of chemicals that will kill whatever you put in them. You said yours is old, so hopefully it either predates this, never had it or it all wore off long ago. Anyway if you start having those kinds of problems it's something to be aware of. With 200 gallons you might not have enough room for your fishes to hide from herons unless you add some kind of underwater structure like a reef or branches/logs, even then it's a toss up. In my half acre pond I find the herons and similar birds to be a benefit, cleaning out the sick or injurred fish and keeping populations in balance. If you do have to keep the birds out you could probably get good results from a frame covered with chickenwire that goes over the pond. Might be handy for hanging those buckets from, too and it would exclude the majority of frogs, insects and such. The nice thing about having a smaller pond is that it will be easier to manage. I'm fighting a spatterdock infestation in my pond right now. Aside from making it very difficult to fish in my pond it doesn't seem to cause too much trouble but when there hasn't been any rain for a long time the spatterdock seems to exacerbate the problem as it draws up the remaining pond water and evaporates it off. In your system it will be an easy matter to manage aquatic weeds, some of which are edible and all of which make excellent compost. Your system sounds great though and I hope it works out well. I especially like the idea of suspended buckets and I could put that to work on a large scale with my pond. I hear you on digging holes in the sun... right now I don't work outside till about 6:30pm unless there's rain or clouds. You might look into one of those hoes I mentioned in another thread for digging your ponds, you'll get done in a fraction of the time it'd take you shoveling.

RealJack | 07-19-2007 10:38 AM
Re: Backyard fishing? Quote:
Originally Posted by bjgnome (Post 666501) Very cool! Consider some sweet potatoes to grow around the pond/bog. They are perrenial and grow like weeds in the Florida climate. They seem to like plenty of water, and if they have that they will just keep spreading out. I live in Martin County, and have been growing an asian variety which is far superior IMO to most of the american varieties. In addition to the delicious tubers, shoots and leaves are edible, and make good forage for livestock. Extremely easy to propogate. Be happy to pass on some shoots i you are ever in the area. Some varieties of taro/malanga do well in a sub-tropical bog. I love water chestnuts and lotus both. The canned stuff just doesn't work for me.
I cooked up some sweet potato greens last night, and just for the record, "sweet potato leaves and shoots are not only edible, they are fantastic." The shoots remind me of the tenderest young asparagus tips. Among my most favorite veggies. Asparagus doesn't grow very well, if at all down here in Florida. What a tasty surprise. One consideration though, just like asparagus, the stems of the leaves can be stringy, so I recommend snipping them close to the leaf. Growing these beauties is so easy. Incredibly pest resistant as well. From now on, my garden is going to be full of sweet potato vine. Thanks bjgnome.

bjgnome | 07-20-2007 12:41 AM
Re: Backyard fishing? You're welcome RealJack. I am enjoying living vicariously through your pond creation, as that is not an option for me right now. As for the lotus, it is mostly the rhizome we eat. I think the seeds are edible, too. No idea about the flowers, but they are just so exquisite. The lotus will need a good six inches or more of rich mud under the water. They tolerate quite stagnant water. I have heard of them being grown in containers maybe 10 gallons or so, with a few mosquito fish thrown in for obvious reasons. Seriously, try out the asian varieties of sweet potato if you get the chance. An asian market might have some. I have also seen organic ones in health food stores on occasion.

GreenSpirit | 07-20-2007 12:50 AM
Re: Backyard fishing? http://www.erowid.org/plants/lotus/ :smokin:

RealJack | 07-24-2007 11:57 AM
Re: Backyard fishing? 1 Attachment(s) Here's a snapshot of the pond as of this morning. I spent the past few days trying to patch leaks in the old pool liner, but couldn't find them all, so I put the waterbed liner over the pool liner and now it's leak free. Now I just need to landscape around the pond with whatever I can scrounge, like sweet potato vine or mint perhaps. I think I'm going to cover the whole pond with a bamboo trellis contraption and grow vines. I'm not sure what vines to use yet. Kiwi might be nice. I still need to visit the nearby marsh to to see if I can find some suitable bog plants. Once I do that the system should be ready to support fish and crawdads and snails. Remember, this little system was completely made with scrounged junk and has cost me nothing but a little time. :D

REV127 | 07-24-2007 12:12 PM
Re: Backyard fishing? Sweet! This time of year you're likely to get mosquito larvae. I hate to admit it but there is a legitimate role in the world for mosquitos, their larvae help form the foundation of a food chain. They can feed tadpoles and mosquito fish, from there more interesting animals. The algae will feed the snails. You can almost see the ponds ramping up production. A bug light over your ponds can inject extra food into the system if you find you need it. I'd grow some pole beans if you're looking at vines, they are very hardy and produce good yields of a versatile food that can easily be dried for longterm storage. Well done! :emotions16:

RealJack | 07-24-2007 12:24 PM
Re: Backyard fishing? Rev, thanks. I doubt I'll have much problem with larvae once I get a few wild fish in the pond. Plus, the recirculating pump should shake up the surface enough to keep the water from going green, at least for a while. The plantings will have to match the quantity of fish for a good balance. I should be able to add tanks as I go, as well. Nice! Pole beans sound good too. I think I've got some.

GreenSpirit | 07-24-2007 05:55 PM
Re: Backyard fishing? Quote:
Originally Posted by silverharp (Post 661117) Has anyone got any good links about raising fish in backyards? or has anyone ever ried it?
I've had lots of tadpoles who raised themselves in my yard...they eventually become treefrogs. So far no fish back there. I don't know if I could eat a poor tadpole.

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