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californiajeff | 04-12-2006 07:23 PM
Solar panels? Wind mills? What do you guys think about solar panels for power? Are small wind mills(like les than 10' high) available and are they economical for us?

hoarder | 04-12-2006 07:32 PM
Re: Solar panels? Wind mills? It depends whether or not you need air conditioning. That is the deciding factor.

rad | 04-12-2006 08:07 PM
Re: Solar panels? Wind mills? Solar and Wind are to some extent complementary. When its sunny its often not windy and visa versa. To see if wind power is a viable prospect at your location you can look at "wind resource map" (search term). I'm not sure whether your 10 foot requirement is tower height or "swept diameter" of the blades. They have to be about 25 feet above anything else to avoid turbulence. The higher you go there is much more wind energy. A small increase in average with velocity at higher elevation results in much more power, proportional to the cube of the velocity if I remember correctly. There are windmills that have smaller than 10 foot diameter, but power is proportional to the area of the circle swept by the blades I think. This is a large field (alternative energy) so you will need to roll up your sleeves do a fair amount of reading if you want to diy. HomePower.com and SolarToday.org are the websites of two of the magazines I read about this subject.

Halophyte | 04-12-2006 09:00 PM
Re: Solar panels? Wind mills? Quote:
Originally Posted by californiajeff What do you guys think about solar panels for power? Are small wind mills(like les than 10' high) available and are they economical for us?
Wind machines are rated in wattage and/or turbine diameter. A five foot turbine can produce about 500 to 800 watts peak. That's in a storm, 45 mph winds or higher. They are compact and light weight. Location will dictate how high you must mount it on its tower/pole. Slow wind machines require stout built towers and large turbines, 7 to 12 foot dia. PV panels are very expensive, unless you do a midnight salvage job on one of those PV powered hi-way signs ... They work together. Try a 50/50 mix, same wattage. If you have 400 watts of pv panels add the same in wind machines. .

TheSimpleton | 04-13-2006 02:29 PM
Re: Solar panels? Wind mills? That's a world to itself. http://www.modernoutpost.com/gear/details/br_solo2.html For little things. Or maybe you can hit Sportsmans Guide and Harbor frieght for a Inverter-ready jumper box and a 12v solar charge panel. For commando-types: http://domesticfront.com/product_inf...685de903b42ec1 They have these from 17-50w and 12/24v No storage mediums. For real prices/info, try this: http://www.partsonsale.com/ Remember, in many states, the government will pay half, there are also Federal incentives this year. Both are only for grid-tie, but the Outback GT is Humvee-ready AND Grid-tied. No fans, solid state, marine or buriable. Good for the termites and other opportunistic critters in your outdoor electrical life. More important and harder to get is the Sealed glass-mat storage batteries. (that don't vent explosive H2) You will not, I repeat, NOT be using car batteries for storage if you like to see the lights on. However powerful it is, you wouldn't ask your Porche Boxster to plow the back 40, so get the right tool for the job. I imagine alternators, panels will be easy to get by hook or crook but batteries are consumable, specialized, and matched-set. Pay attention to them. If you like the lights on, you might try this instead: http://utterpower.com/engines.htm They run for generations without maintence, 100-year old design on WVO/biodeisel. No need for storage (AC gens) and hard to steal. If you're the budget-type: http://www.otherpower.com/ "The Blunt edge of high-technology." Nuff said. Solar and wind, battery and grid-tied are all site and use specific. In general, anyplace wind is going to work is a place you don't want to live. It's not hard to tell, just see if the trees are all bent one way, you have the required +6mph speeds. I'm not kidding. I wouldn't sneeze at one if I didn't have any power, but as far as competative watts, unless you're in Seattle or Alaska, do all the math for wind over solar (vs gens) before writing checks. Because of speed/turbulence, a tower is a must and Wind power rises by the square of speed, so 4mph has 4x the power of 2mph. That math means you'll get zip until you're over 6mph, and then not much worth having until you get over 10-15mph, even with a 40' tower. How much does it blow over 15mph where you live? That said, I'd like to comment that having your lights on when the nieghbors are dark, or having $10k worth of rare and useful equipment in your backyard is tantamount to hanging a sign that says, "Kick me". You may not want to have to invest in a shotgun and and an angry dog until they become common enough to be overlooked. There are a lot of things you could do depending on why you're looking at it. Perhaps it would be better if your local Vol Firemen had it instead and could drive over to fill your batteries? Maybe having a small tractor with a pto gen head is better? Maybe you'd rather old car batteries and a cheap inverter? It works poorly and will break but the money might be better spent. Or maybe it would make more sense to get a fridge that uses 1/2 the power as a 1st step than a $10k solar array that makes 2x the power? Be smart and decide what you REALLY need to lock in 20 years of power for today. But remember, if you have batteries, you can charge the house when the power's on, or use your car/tractor/home-carved windmill to charge them. If you don't have batteries, then regardless of how you get juice, you'll only have it in the infrequent conditions power is running. Storage is the baseline. TS

Book | 04-13-2006 02:36 PM
Re: Solar panels? Wind mills? Quote:
That said, I'd like to comment that having your lights on when the nieghbors are dark, or having $10k worth of rare and useful equipment in your backyard is tantamount to hanging a sign that says, "Kick me". You may not want to have to invest in a shotgun and and an angry dog until they become common enough to be overlooked. TheSimpleton
TheSimpleton is giving good caution here. A dollar's worth of .22 bullets can destroy a rooftop full of glass-encased solar panels. Better to go with something like this: http://www.solarbuzz.com/news/NewsNAPT78.htm

mightyspuds | 04-13-2006 07:26 PM
Re: Solar panels? Wind mills? Quote:
Originally Posted by californiajeff What do you guys think about solar panels for power? Are small wind mills(like les than 10' high) available and are they economical for us?
Solar panels work.If you think someone is going to shoot them out on your roof,get unisolar.They are a real world product,available today that can take a bullet and keep right on working.But real world,someone shooting at my house better be prepared to be shot at in return,get real here. Unisolars thin film panels are also very good in partial shade,and the most heat resistent panel made.No other tech available can match them in these tests. Drawback is size of panel per watt produced,but if you add in heat causing losses on other panels,they tend to even out. They are wildly popular in Australia because of their high heat performance. Spuds:sheep:

mightyspuds | 04-13-2006 07:34 PM
Re: Solar panels? Wind mills? Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSimpleton For real prices/info, try this: http://www.partsonsale.com/ TS
This is a fine outfit.Their showroom is in my area and quite the place to visit. Prices are as competitve as you will find. Also repair inverters,make custom cables. Knowledgable and friendly too,they live for this stuff. They are my source for all my power needs. Jeff,their store is in Victorville,just one block off the 15 if you live around there. Spuds

mightyspuds | 04-13-2006 07:40 PM
Re: Solar panels? Wind mills? My lights are always on when the neighbors arent.:adore::adore: None of the neighbors have seen fit to shoot yet,LOL! Spuds:sheep:

TheSimpleton | 04-14-2006 09:09 AM
Re: Solar panels? Wind mills? I don't imagine they need to disable them before loading in the pickup--they're not known to bite. And your neighbors may have an interest in keeping your lights safe if they get to share in the power. It's just neighborly. TS

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