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Infidel | 11-03-2009 03:39 AM
You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual I have been out for the count for a while. I have a thread on long term fasting (3 - 5 weeks) here on this forum and that helped me get rid of 90 LBS of fat over the course of one year (had quite a few of those long fasts. Like 4 or so). There was much back and forth there, but as I stated in that thread I posted it here in survival forum in order to shatter the myth that we can't live for a long time without food. Here is sort of a spiritual progeny to that thread. You can live on this complete food alone. You can store it for years without refrigeration. I have lived on this for a month and it is fine. I know of others that have lived on this for years. Like the author of this manual here below. I discovered this here from becoming 100% carnivorous zero carb diet. I have many reasons to think that it is one proper way of eating now for humans. One of a few. I mean only meat. 95% of the time it is beef. 90% of the time it is chuck steak. 80% of my calories come from fat. 20% come from protein. by weight it is about 50/50 of dry protein to tallow. Which is the exact proportion this pemmican is mixed at. So read it from a survivalist point of view. Our ancestors did not evolve to eat flour, or sugar or shortening, or molasses or whatever else LDS tell you to store. You can, as an adult male. Survive for a week on 5 pounds of pemmican when physical activity is limited. with 7 pounds if you are exerting yourself and with 10 pounds if you are a lumberjack. You need .75 pounds a day for normal activity. a pound for hiking and a 1.5 lbs for heavy exertion. So you can store a year's supply in one duffel bag. Without refrigeration. By my estimates, unless you grow the beef yourself, you can expect to pay about $4 a pound for the finished product. ========================================= Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual http://www.traditionaltx.us/images/PEMMICAN.pdf See this document for how to make pemmican. Here is the Jerky manual which describes the process for dehydrating the meat. http://www.traditionaltx.us/images/Jerky...ctions.pdf Pemmican is a concentrated nutritionally complete food invented by the North American Plains Indians. It was originally made during the summer months from dried lean Buffalo meat and rendered fat as a way to preserve and store the meat for use when traveling and as a primary food source during the lean winter months. When pemmican was discovered by our early Frontiersmen (explorers, hunters, trappers, and the like) it became a highly sought after commodity. The Hudson Bay Company purchased tons of pemmican from the native tribes each year to satisfy the demand. The basic unit of trade was an animal hide filled with pemmican, sealed with pure rendered fat on the seams, and weighed about 90 pounds. As long as it was kept away from moisture, heat, and direct sunlight, it would last for many years with no refrigeration or other method of preservation. There appeared to be two types of pemmican. One was a mixture of 50% shredded dehydrated lean meat and 50% rendered fat by weight. The other mixture was similar but contained 50% rendered fat, 45% shredded dehydrated meat and 5% dried and ground berries by weight. The berries were typically Saskatoon berries which grew in abundance in the Great Plains area, and are similar to blueberries. There is much controversy as to whether the natives included the dried berries in the pemmican they made for themselves or whether they added it only to the pemmican they sold to the Hudson Bay Company “because the White Man preferred it that way”. I’m of a mind that the natives consumed it both ways. The Journals from the Lewis & Clark expedition clearly state that the Indian tribes they encountered consumed some berries, fruits, and tubers as part of their diet. It seems reasonable that the inclusion of some dried berries would not be out of character for the batches of pemmican made in late summer when ripe berries were available. Berries do not appear to be a nutritional requirement and they increase the chance of spoilage, so the pemmican formula in this document is for meat and fat only, and does not include them. Please bear in mind that pemmican is NOT a raw food, as the fat needs to be heated above 200 deg F. in order to release it from its cellular structure and drive out the moisture. It is therefore not recommended as part of a daily RAF (Raw Animal Food) diet. However, it is a useful compromise when one is traveling, for use as emergency rations, or when otherwise high-quality raw animal foods are unavailable. It is important that the lean meat used in pemmican be dehydrated at a temperature below 120 def F., and a temperature between 100 deg F. and 115 deg F. is ideal. Temperatures above 120 deg F. will “cook” the meat and will severely compromise the nutritional value of the pemmican. Federal and State laws require commercial dried meat products like jerky to be raised to a temperature above 150 deg F. which cooks the meat to a well-done state and makes it totally unsuitable for making pemmican. Nutritional Issues The nutritional qualities of pemmican are unmatched when it is properly made. It can be eaten for months or years as the only food and no nutritional deficiencies will develop. Yes, that is correct, no fruits, vegetables, grains, or dairy products are required to maintain perfect health – just properly made pemmican and water. Vitamin C and scurvy is often brought up as a concern. Explorers, hunters, and Native Americans have demonstrated over and over that consuming raw meat or meat that was dried at a temperature below 120 deg F., as long as there is sufficient fat present to supply enough calories, will maintain perfect health and prevent or cure scurvy. Those who consume salted and preserved meats, biscuits, and other processed foods, even when lemon juice is added to their diet, will often die from scurvy or other nutritional deficiencies. Calcium and weak bones is another concern. Due to the advertising of the dairy industry, it is believed that milk, cheese, or other dairy products are essential to maintaining good bone density. It has been shown that people eating a diet of meat and fat, where the animal consumed was allowed to eat its natural diet, (usually grass), bones developed normally and remained strong with no sign of deterioration. For the best quality pemmican, use red meat, (deer, beef, elk, bison, etc), and the rendered fat from these same animals. The animals should be grass fed or have eaten their natural diet in the wild. DO NOT include nuts, seeds, vegetable products, vegetable oils, grains, beans, or dairy products of any kind. A small amount of well dried berries (blueberries, Saskatoon, strawberries, etc) is the only acceptable addition and should not exceed 5% by weight should you choose to include them. Directions Ingredients: Equal amounts by weight of very dry red meat and rendered beef tallow. If you have one pound of dried meat then you will need one pound of rendered beef tallow, two pounds of dried red meat then two pounds of rendered beef tallow, etc. Rendering the Fat Rendering fat is a simple process and most of us are familiar with it as it is one of the end results of frying bacon. The process of frying the bacon releases the fat from the cellular structure of the meat and drives off the water. It is the boiling off of the water that actually makes bacon pop and sizzle. The fat itself just turns to a liquid. Our goal in our rendering process is a bit different from frying bacon in that it is the fat we wish to keep rather than the crisp “cracklin’s”, which by the way taste good when they are still warm with a bit of salt. If you don’t want them they make wonderful dog treats when cool. We also want to keep the ultimate temperature of the fat as low as possible. I try to keep it below 250 deg F. and usually shoot for a final temperature of around 240 deg F. You gain nothing by raising the temperature any higher than 240-250 other than more damage to the fatty acids which we want to avoid as much as possible. In short, you need the temperature high enough to boil off the water in a reasonable length of time, but as low as practical to maintain the nutritional value and not denature the structure of the fatty acids any more than necessary. There are two generally accepted methods of rendering. One is to place the fat in a pot and heat it on the stove top. The other is to place the fat in a roasting pan and put it in the oven with the temperature set between 225 – 250 deg F. The stove top method can be completed in about one hour and requires constant attention. The oven method takes 12 hours or more, but can be left unattended during the entire process. I will be covering the stove top method here with comments on the oven method mixed in but not demonstrated. Cut the fat into small pieces about �” square. Place the diced fat in a stock pot or pan. I select my pot size such that the raw fat fills the pot about � full. This gives me head room to stir and mix without slinging fat all over the stove or counter. It also fills the pot deep enough with the liquid fat so that I can use a candy thermometer to keep track of the temperature. If you are using the oven method just put your fat in a good sized roasting pan and pop it in the oven set between 225 to 250 deg F and then go away for 12 to 24 hours. The oven thermostat will take care of the temperature for you. Set your burner to medium high heat and stir well about every minute or so for the first 10 minutes. This will keep the bottom from overheating while enough fat is being liberated to cover the bottom of the pan. After about 10 minutes you’ll see a pool of fat forming on the bottom which should be merrily boiling away. You can now rest a bit and stir every 5 minutes or so just to keep things well mixed. After about 30 minutes the liquid fat should be deep enough to cover all the chunks and it should have the appearance of a rolling boil. Reduce the temperature to medium heat and put a candy thermometer into the fat making sure it does not touch the bottom of the pan. The water boiling off the fat will keep the temperature around 220 deg F for a while, but there will come a point where the temperature will start rising. Keep stirring occasionally and keep your eye on the thermometer. As it begins to rise, lower the heat setting to keep the temperature around 230 to 240 deg F. The picture above is after about 45 minutes. The cracklin’s are beginning to turn dark in color, the boiling is slowing down, and the temperature of the fat is rising requiring close attention to the heat setting. After about one hour the major boiling action will have stopped and there will just be small bubbles rising from the fat. 90% of the cracklin’s will be a chestnut brown color. The lighter chunks may have a bit more fat left in them, but it is not worth the effort to extract it. If you did the oven method, the fat in your roasting pan should have a similar look. Now take a good sized strainer and place it the container where you will store your rendered fat. Line the strainer with a single layer of paper towel. This will filter out the sediment and just allow the liquid fat to drip through. From your pot or roasting pan pour the fat, cracklin’s and all, into the lined strainer. Press on the cracklin’s with a serving spoon to press as much fat out of them as possible. When you’ve gotten all the fat you can, remove the strainer and set the container aside to cool. You can sprinkle the cracklin’s with a bit of salt and pepper and enjoy them as a snack, set them aside to cool for dog treats, or discard as you wish. The square tub on the left is tallow that was rendered from the fat of grass fed animals. It is a deep butter yellow from the caritinoids (the fat soluble vitamin “A” precursor that gives carrots their orange color) that gets stored in the animal’s fat from the green grass they eat. The round bucket on the right is the tallow we just rendered from fat that I got from a local market. The putty color is typical of the fat rendered from grain fed animals. There is little or no carotene stored in the fat of grain fed animals. There is also a major difference in the fatty acid profile of grain-fed vs grass-fed animals. The grass fed animal fat is between 25 and 50 percent healthy Omega 3 fatty acids. The grain fed animal’s fat is only 2 to 3 percent Omega 3. Omega 3 fatty acids are critical to the development and maintenance of our brain and nerve tissue. Overall, the meat and fat from grass fed animals has far greater nutritional value than grain fed beef. Therefore, if you want to make pemmican that meets all nutritional requirements without the need for additional supplementation, both the lean meat and the fat should come from grass fed animals. Dried Meat Preparation To make any useful amount of pemmican, a large quantity of well dehydrated lean meat is required which does not lend itself to the use of small tray-type food dehydrators. The plans for a simple dehydrator that can be built for less than $20 and will hold a full 10 pounds of raw meat is available here: http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/uploads/...structions.pdf These plans also give full instructions for dehydrating meat at low temperature for making jerky, or if the meat is left unseasoned, for making pemmican. Generally, well dried meat will weigh just slightly less than 1/3 of its raw weight. Therefore, 10 pounds of raw lean meat will yield about 3 lbs of thoroughly dehydrated meat. Since pemmican is 50% fat and 50% dried meat by weight, 3 pounds of dried meat will make 6 pounds of pemmican which will be equal to about 18 pounds of fresh meat. Start with well dried red meat. Beef, Bison, Deer, Elk, etc. Make sure that the strips of meat are thoroughly dry all the way through. Any observable moisture in the meat will provide an environment for mold and bacteria to grow. If the strips of meat are bent double they should crack and not be rubbery. Traditionally the meat used for pemmican is dried without salt or any other seasoning. If you choose to season your meat I suggest that you go very lightly – less than half of what you would use for jerky. Use only dry spices like garlic powder, pepper, cumin, chili powder, and salt etc. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER make pemmican with meat that has been marinated in soy sauce, wine, or any marinade that contains sugar of any kind, and no vegetable oils of any type. I always make my pemmican without salt or seasoning and usually prefer eating it that way, but on occasion sprinkle a bit of salt or steak seasoning on it at the time I eat it for a change of pace – be careful, a little bit of seasoning goes a long way in this dense food. Grind the meat to a fibrous consistency like a fluffy, but slightly chunky mulch. I use a meat grinder with the largest plate (biggest holes) possible. The grinder above is a large #32 manual ChopRite with a 1 � horsepower motor in place of the handle, and fitted with a “bean” plate that has 3 very large oval holes. If you attempt to use a plate with small holes, (�” may work, �” or larger is much better), the holes will clog, the grinder could lock-up, and you may damage it. Feed one strip at a time and wait until the exit holes begin to clear before adding the next strip. If it is too chunky and not well shredded, run it through a second time. Alternatively you can shred the meat in a food processor using the steel blade, or in a blender. When using these options it will be helpful to chop the dried meat into smaller pieces, and some people pick up the blender and shake it while grinding to keep the un- ground chunks moving into the blades for a more even grind. Traditionally the dry meat was pounded into a powder using rocks. I’ve tried the pounding method using a hammer and a small blacksmith’s anvil. Unless you have a lot of time and need the exercise I don’t recommend it. It is a lot of work. Weigh the amount of ground meat that you have and then weigh out an equal amount of rendered animal fat from the rendering process above. Fat from red meat animals is preferable for best nutrition and keeping qualities as it becomes very firm when cool – similar to candle wax. No vegetable oils or butter should be used. Pork or lamb fat can be used but are not recommended as the fatty acid profile is different and they melt at too low a temperature. This can cause the fat and lean to separate in warm weather, so storage becomes a problem unless you are willing to pack the pemmican in liquid tight containers. Melt the fat on low heat. It will start to melt at about 120 deg F. Try to keep the temperature of the fat below 150 deg F. You spent time drying the lean meat at low temperature to maintain its nutritional value so you don’t want to deep fry it when you mix it with the fat. Mix the shredded meat into the melted fat and stir until well blended. The completed mixture should look much like moist crumbled brownies. The mixture may look “wet” but most of the fat should be absorbed or coating the meat fibers – there should be little or no liquid fat pooling in the bottom of the pan. Using a sturdy spoon, press the warm mixture into a mold of your choice, or spoon into a Ziploc plastic bag and press flat, removing as much air as possible. The grey colored molds above are mini loaf pans that are slightly larger than a cube of butter and hold about 150 grams (1000 total calories) of pemmican. The Ziploc bags are sandwich sized and are loaded with about 300 grams (2000 total calories). When pressed flat they are about 5” x 6” x �” thick. Set aside to let cool and harden. The final product will be very hard – almost like a block of wax - and will look a bit like dark oatmeal with some ground raisins stirred in. If you are using molds such as cupcake tins or loaf pans as above, the pemmican can be removed from the mold once it is hardened and then stored in plastic bags or wrapped in a grease proof paper. One convenient method I often use is to press the mixture into lined cupcake pans and then store the resulting hockey pucks with their paper liners in gallon sized Ziploc plastic bags. Each cupcake in a standard cupcake pan will hold about 75-80 grams (around 500 calories) if you pack them solid to the top. If you want to keep your pemmican for any length of time, it should be stored in a dark place or wrapped in light tight paper or aluminum foil as well as placed in a plastic bag to keep out air and moisture. Pemmican does not require refrigeration and can be kept for years at room temperature as long as it is kept dry, and shielded from light and direct heat. How Much Do I Need? One half ( � ) pound of pemmican per day is about the minimum required for a sedentary adult and provides about 1,500 calories. Someone doing light activities might find � pound more appropriate to their needs and this would provide about 2,200 calories. Twice this amount (or more) could easily be necessary when doing hard physical labor (think digging ditches or mountain climbing). Pemmican is the perfect food for backpacking and hiking. Ten pounds of pemmican will easily sustain a backpacker for a full week providing 1 � pounds of pemmican per day which would supply 4,400 calories – enough to support strenuous climbing at high altitude and in cold weather. The same 10 pounds of pemmican would supply food for two full weeks of leisure camping activities at � pound per day providing 2,200 calories. When made correctly, using grass fed lean red meat, dried at a temperature below 120 deg F., and rendered fat from grass fed animals, pemmican is a complete food and no other nutrients or supplements are necessary to completely meet all human nutritional requirements. No other single food is as calorie dense or nutritionally complete. Lex Rooker February 2009

RossL | 11-03-2009 07:12 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual the link to the rawpaleodiet.com doesn't work corrected link for the meat dehydrator http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/wp-conte...structions.pdf edit, it's the same pdf file that you can get from the link at the top http://www.traditionaltx.us/images/J...structions.pdf

MNeagle | 11-03-2009 08:24 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual I could live on good jerky easily. Though $4/lb is a dream. More like $11-13/lb around here.

mightymanx | 11-03-2009 09:01 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Pemmican is a good survival food, but it has the unfortinate drawback of tasting like pemmican. To me there is a Quality factor to my living. I want to live not just survive. I have less than zero desire to live 1 step above starving on something that tastes worse than dirt for years on end. Why bother if you strive to have no quality to your life that is why I prepare, I could just go live off of raw dogs, rats,bugs and rainwater otherwise.

BellevueBully | 11-03-2009 10:05 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Good article. Thanks for posting.

Patriotme | 11-03-2009 10:06 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual I have to ask this. I've read that eating all meat can cause constipation. Is this true and if so then how much abuse did you put your colon through this year? I'm mostly serious. Will this diet lead to other health issues?

Infidel | 11-03-2009 12:45 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual On pemmican tasting poorly. It does not have a bad taste. If you are hungry it will keep you alive. After all this is a survival forum and not martha stewards forum. I lived through the economic and political collapse of the ussr and KNOW that short of a meteorite, nuke, supervolcano or a ten point earthquake there will be no mass die off to such an extent that will require a person to eat out of their pantry for a year. Many here overestimate tha danger of a dissapearing currency. A well stocked pantry is a good hedge against. Inflation. So to that end it is prudent. But that is provident living. Mad max is survival It is not constipation if you do not have to go. ;) I average one normal sized, well shaped bowel movement every 6 days. It is not discomforting at all. Meat and fat, in the absence of veggies or milk products digest near perfectly. For an average person about 80 percent of fecal matter consists of dead intestinal flora that only grows there to break down stuff we can not.

shortstack | 11-03-2009 12:47 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Wow, great info, thanks everyone

Infidel | 11-03-2009 02:15 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Quote:
Originally Posted by MNeagle (Post 2004768) I could live on good jerky easily. Though $4/lb is a dream. More like $11-13/lb around here.
The dehydrator in the OP costs ten dollars to make lean beef can be bought for $3 a pound. Jerky is 66 to 75% reduction in volume due to dessication. it will cost you 9 to 12 dollars to make it yourself as you like it. the price of 4 a pound was for pemmican.

Jimfrancisco | 11-03-2009 04:32 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Alcohol is a carb - does this mean cutting out beer altogether? If so, not the diet for me...:wink:

Jimfrancisco | 11-03-2009 04:45 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Oh, and what about Biltong? The perfect food IMO - has all the fats, compact, easy to make yourself, and tastes delicious. Ever been to South Africa? Biltong will attract friends, who will bring beer, and loyalty...

Infidel | 11-03-2009 04:46 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual this topic is kinda getting mixed. pemmican is a food and you can make it for survival purposes zero carb eating is what I do now. and yes it means nothing pretty much but water and meat. very low carb includes cheese, eggs and some other stuff that is ok for some people. I bet you did not know that shrimp has carbs.

thorgrim | 11-03-2009 06:07 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Thanks for this valuable post infidel. I will add this to my repertoire of food preservation. I could see this being very valuable for my area where wild game is fairly abundant but wild edibles are basically non-existent 6 months of the year. ----------------------------------------- Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotme (Post 2004938) I have to ask this. I've read that eating all meat can cause constipation. Is this true and if so then how much abuse did you put your colon through this year? I'm mostly serious. Will this diet lead to other health issues?
Never eaten only meat for a prolonged period of time but usually it is refined carbs especially from wheat that plugs me up. Same can be said about gas or indigestion. Never have a problem eating very high fat/protein but protein plus plenty of carbs gives me seriously bad gas.

icq182 | 11-03-2009 07:34 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel (Post 2005561) The dehydrator in the OP costs ten dollars to make lean beef can be bought for $3 a pound. Jerky is 66 to 75% reduction in volume due to dessication. it will cost you 9 to 12 dollars to make it yourself as you like it. the price of 4 a pound was for pemmican.
"Lean beef" can be bought by a very very small percentage of the US population for $3 per pound. Of course it would help if you specified if this is organic grass fed lean beef or genetically modified vaccinated lean beef with tons of hormones shot up in there. If you're talking about organic beef, I 100% disagree that it can be had for $3 per pound by more than 1-2% of the US population-- they simply don't know hwere to get it, are not close enough to it to buy it, don't know what genetically modified food is, do not have the storage space for it, cannot buy it in bulk and throw it into one of their extra freezers like the average GIMer can. Sure, many people who post here might possibly be able to obtain organic meat, but it seems silly to advocate a diet in which the average joe schmoe cannot possibly EVER hope to obtain the same food you recommend eating in your diet. If you're talking about hormone / GMO / vaccinated meat, then I 100% agree with you, this can be had for 99 cents a pound or less in any grocery store. http://www.supplecity.com/articles/diets/atkinsdiet.htm This articles makes some good points against an all meat diet... I don't want to derail / take over this thread but I highly doubt you can survive for 5 years on a 100% meat diet without dying from kidney / liver failure / disease / malnutrition / etc. Native americans ate many many many fruits and vegetables but this is of course downplayed on this forum and everyone thinks they ate 100% meat diet. I don't really want to drop too much knowledge here because i'd end up derailing this thread and repeating myself too many times. I've already won this argument, no need to have it again. I've posed hundreds of unanswered questions in that thread if any of you 100% meat eaters ever care to respond to some of them... PLEASE read through the ENTIRE thread before you make a post though... as you will see i've already repeated myself way too many times in this one thread alone and it's getting old :yes: If you have some new material you'd like to bring to the discussion I would be glad to hear it though. http://www.goldismoney.info/forums/s...=395152&page=7

buff01 | 11-03-2009 09:05 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Anyone interested in getting healthy should check out http://zerocarbage.com and take a look in the forums. Zero carb is a very healthy way to live, and even very low carb will keep you in great shape.

CANUCKFARMER | 11-03-2009 09:35 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Infidel,can i get your opinion about beer?

Merlin | 11-03-2009 10:21 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 2006460) Infidel,can i get your opinion about beer?
Beer??? What about scotch whiskey?

icq182 | 11-03-2009 11:12 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Quote:
Originally Posted by buff01 (Post 2006403) Anyone interested in getting healthy should check out http://zerocarbage.com and take a look in the forums. Zero carb is a very healthy way to live, and even very low carb will keep you in great shape.
I suppose you don't really want to get into this, or you would have, but care to address the article I posted above? If you feel your diet is the best one, you should be willing to argue the cause, right? Do you currently follow a zero carb diet? How long have you ever gone following a zero carb diet before? What does your diet consist of, nothing but meat? Wow, I'm pretty sure I just linked you to another GIM account that you also post on, solely based on this garbage link that has been posted here many times before. I can't imagine anyone would actually link to this garbage website you posted unless they: a) have an agenda b) have something to gain monetarily, I suppose that's one kind of agenda. I really like the section on "WHY EXERCISE DOESN'T WORK" rofl There are absolutely no sources on your website, and the sections are poorly written with grammar and spelling errors... not to mention blatant disinfo...

buff01 | 11-04-2009 12:30 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Native Americans ate primarily fatty meat. Fruits? From where? They were nomadic so their vegetable intake was minimal as well. Why have everyone in your caravan forage from dusk till dawn every single day when the alternative is to kill one bison and feed everyone for weeks? Calorie-wise, meat was the only sensible primary food for them. I don't want to hijack this thread for a repeat of the other one. I'm done.

Infidel | 11-04-2009 02:33 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual ICQ182 I will post a list of references to medical textbooks to that thread above. Just since I have them and no one else seems to have provided. please go there to look at them if you care. you probably do not because you have already "won". I do not care to "win" or "lose" on the internet about this. Either one of us will keep our opinion. There was only one poster I ever enjoyed crossing horns with and it was a ThreeJTribe here on GIM, and it was mostly because he was a very enjoyable opponent. I will post once in that thread and do not really care to "defend" my quotation. In any case. I am a zerocarber. I am on that zero carb forum. I mentioned that I am eating zero carb in order to explain my personal journey to this information. I did not post a link to that forum because this thread is not about eating zero carbs. It is about Pemmican. On which you can survive for a long time and which keeps really well. This is a survival thread, in a survival forum about a survival food item. It is not about the morality of eating meat. Just about one food item that may be useful to my fellow GIM members. As for Canucfarmer's beer - Beer is carbs, alcohol is carbs. I do not consume carbs, and never was into drinking anyways. So I could not care less for beer really. But again. This thread is about pemmican.

BeefJerky | 11-04-2009 02:55 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Looks like good news for me.:36_1_34::36_1_34:

Unclad Lad | 11-04-2009 03:33 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Quote:
It is not constipation if you do not have to go. ;) I average one normal sized, well shaped bowel movement every 6 days. It is not discomforting at all.
Infidel, I'm very interested in those links, because a zero-carb diet for extended use has been presented to me as detrimental.

RossL | 11-04-2009 07:06 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymanx (Post 2004807) To me there is a Quality factor to my living. I want to live not just survive. I have less than zero desire to live 1 step above starving on something that tastes worse than dirt for years on end.
I don't think anybody here is advocating living on Pemmican for years on end. I would have loved to eat several days worth of Pemmican during those times when I lived on C-rations for several days at a time. Ever carry C-rations in your pack? MRE's aren't much better. They need to be heated to be palatable. If you need either Pemmican or MREs for more than a few days at a time and nothing else, then yer in deep doo-doo :biggrin:

icq182 | 11-04-2009 11:08 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Infidel, I hope you will read through and post many times in the other thread I linked because I am very very curious about your personal situation, your lifestyle, what you eat, etc. Actually I would like to hear more about your bowel movements now that you brought them up. :fan: Are you telling me you shit one time per every 6 days on average??? You will notice I hardly EVER touch on the morality issue. I could care less about killing off animals. I choose not to eat animal products for health reasons, it has absolutely nothing at all to do with morality for me. I know that may not be the reason that many other people opt to eat vegetarian or vegan, but in my case, morality has absolutely nothing to do with it. With all that said, there may be survival foods that are ten or one hundred times more nutrient dense than Pemmican. BUT I will concede this: in a TRUE survival situation in which you stored Pemmican and NOTHING else, I would much much rather have Pemmican than nothing at all. And I will concede that yes, meat can be made to last a very long time for storage, and there are many different ways to preserve said meat. Same w buff, dont want to get into it, please post in the other thread so I don't derail this one any more than I already have, but keep in mind that 98% of the meat manufactured in this country is fed genetically modified corn and wheat, given over 10 vaccines by the time it gets to your table, the GMO corn and wheat is sprayed with nasty chemical fertilizers. Many animals are also injected with hormones for various reasons, for example cows are given so many hormones that they can produce 10x their normal output of milk. 98% of the meat manufactured and consumed in this country is absolutely nothing at all like the meat the native americans ate in terms of diseases, genetic makeup, etc. This of course does not mean that any meat is good for you, but some is of course much much worse than others.

Jimfrancisco | 11-04-2009 03:19 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual If I drink beer from bottles, but add ground raw beef to it first, is it OK for the diet? Makes for sorta lumpy beer, but it's a change from plain old Coors light.

thorgrim | 11-04-2009 05:32 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual I think some of you are sort of getting off point in the direction you are taking in this thread. Infidel is pointing out a great way to preserve meat and relating his personal experience of living off meat only for an extended period of time. I don't think anyone is suggesting that you live off pemmican only in a SHTF scenario, I know I certainly don't want to do that if I don't have to. If you want to store beer or have a way to make your own beer by all means do so. If you want to store compact long lasting green foods, and dehydrated vegetables, beans and grains cool I do that too. However lets say you are 6 months into the collapse and you one way or the other are able to acquire/kill a large game, or livestock animal. What if you don't have electricity so can't freeze it and for some reason, perhaps lack of jars or fuel/electricity you can't can the meat? How are you going to preserve several hundred pounds of meat for long term storage? Drying at lower temperatures and sealing the meat with fat is certainly going to preserve more nutrition in the meat then canning it and will take up less space. Like I said a valuable addition to my food storage options.

buff01 | 11-04-2009 05:37 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual I never lived off of pemmican (never even had it actually), but I was zero carb for about three months of the past year. I lost a bunch of weight, and since then I've been very low carb (VLC) with an emphasis on fatty meat. I've continued losing weight albeit at a slower pace. I also want to note that I have not gotten sick this year.

CANUCKFARMER | 11-04-2009 08:15 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual If my beer is running away from me and i shoot it,then cook it,then eat am i vegetarian?

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 11-04-2009 10:24 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual When I was in Alaska we ate only trapped/hunted meat and some fruit. The meat had no middle man. In all cases I knew the person who took it, and in a few cases, that person was me (caught some Silver Salmon) I have never felt so healthy in my life. Now back to city life, where every bite of meat makes me feel a little sicker. True meat that was raised in the wild is VERY healthy, my instincts say. Farm Raised, not so much. P.S. I love this Pemmican recipe.

Infidel | 11-05-2009 01:15 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Quote:
Originally Posted by buff01 (Post 2008039) I also want to note that I have not gotten sick this year.
Interesting observation. I have a kindergarten aged son. He's been sick twice. half of my coworkers been sick. two with swine flu they say. Both have some sort of bronchitis. Nothing sticks.

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Unclad Lad | 11-05-2009 01:58 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimfrancisco (Post 2007799) If I drink beer from bottles, but add ground raw beef to it first, is it OK for the diet? Makes for sorta lumpy beer, but it's a change from plain old Coors light.
And it can only improve the flavor.

Osprey550 | 11-05-2009 07:54 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Infidel, Thanks for the information! I'm going to try the Pemmican recipe. Canuk Farmer, I think it makes you a good shot as Beer is a small fast moving target...

StrawMan=Corporation | 11-30-2009 02:09 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual This was real interesting. IE the interesting part is how the site that Poo Poo's the atkins diet is selling bars and other food / diet products. Guess the atkins diet its not in their best interests. IE it does not make them a buck. Quote:
The sad truth about the Atkins Diet
Quote:
Diets exposed list | Articles index This diet violates several fundamental rules of healthy eating. And, it is not sustainable. Yes, you can "lose weight" on this diet. Temporarily. You can also lose your kidneys or your liver--not really much of a bargain, there. What is the value in losing healthy bone and muscle tissue, along with fat, while simultaneously damaging your vital organs? Does this make any sense to you? If so, contact us about beachfront property in Arizona--have we got a deal for you! The Atkins diet essentially eliminates 1 of the 3 macronutrient groups. On this diet, you eat lots of protein and fat--but few carbohydrates (the sources of which are critical to getting key nutrients). Many people are attracted to this diet because they can "lose weight" by eating "forbidden foods." The weight loss is costly and illusory, and the health consequences can be severe. The diet induces weight loss through several mechanisms: Total calorie reduction through imbalance and satiation. By eliminating an entire food group, you may actually eat less. Reduction of portion size through boredom. People on this diet start eating less, because the diet does not provide a full range of taste sensations. For that reason, also, most people come to their senses and abandon this whacko diet after a few weeks. Loss of lean tissue through malnutrition. Because this diet lacks essential nutrients, the body sheds lean tissue. Unfortunately, while total fat may decline for a while, you will see your body fat ratio increase. That is, more of your body is fat than before you started this diet. That's because you will have lost lean tissue that burns calories at rest. Chemical imbalances that cause the body to burn its stores of carbohydrates and then go into a fat burning mode. Once these carbohydrates are depleted, however, fat-burning becomes very inefficient and the body lowers metabolism in response to the depleted carbohydrate stores. Once you go off this diet, the body is still trying to protect those carbohydrate stores, and you get fatter on the same amount of food you ate before. But, you can't stay on this diet long because doing so is a death sentence. Burning fat To burn fat, you need carbohydrates. The Atkins diet reduces these carbohydrates to a level that is below what you need for the metabolism of normal levels of fat, then pumps up the fat in your diet to super high levels. That is rank stupidity, on the face of it. The effects of this stupidity, however, are more than intellectual embarrassment. The effects of the stupidity inherent in the Atkins diet can cost you in ways no amount of money can pay for. What matters is how many calories you consume, not how many carbs. You can't escape the basic physics, here. It takes 3,500 calories to make a pound of fat--reduce calories, and you reduce fat. Increase calories, and you increase fat. Stinky stuff The Atkins diet induces a state of ketosis. People on this diet have an odor that is detectable by folks with very keen senses of smell, by instrumentation designed for that detection, and by cats and dogs. Because most people cannot detect this odor, they are unaware of it. It is the same odor emitted by diabetics who are in a "red alert" state. And for the same reason. It is the odor of the ketones. In effect, rancid fat circulates in the blood of an Atkins dieter. This rancid fat releases free radicals and does all kinds of other damage inside your body. If you are trying to get cancers of the colon, prostate, bladder, stomach, intestines, and lungs, the Atkins diet is for you. Otherwise, it's not. But, the cancer problem isn't a threat if you stay on the Atkins diet because renal failure or liver failure will kill you first. The diet is low in fruit, which you need for an effective immune system and proper bowel functioning. It is also low in vegetables, which you need for a host of nutrients. How anyone could release this diet on the public and not go to prison for fraud is an amazing testament to the lack of justice in our legal system. But, don't let that stop you from rejecting the stupidity and the consequences thereof. <CENTER></CENTER> These keywords may have brought you here: atkins diet, ketosis diet, atkins plan, no carb diet, zero carb diet, low carb diet, high protein diet, bacon diet, aktins myth, atkins fallacy, facts about atkins, unsustainable atkins, why atkins fails, articles about dieting, articles about proper nutrition, eating right, diet information, proper diet, diet tips, diets exposed, diet articles, diet advice, losing weight, fighting fat, diet facts, diet failures, diet scams, diet myths, diets that work, diet fads, fraudulent diets, fad diets, poor diets, real diets, proper diets <!--webbot bot="Include" U-Include="../../0bottom.htm" TAG="BODY" startspan --> <TABLE id=table1 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#000080>Supplecity is a subsidiary of Mindconnection.com. When you follow the links from this site to the purchase area, you will go to Mindconnection's secure server.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Quote:
Originally Posted by icq182 (Post 2006622) I suppose you don't really want to get into this, or you would have, but care to address the article I posted above? If you feel your diet is the best one, you should be willing to argue the cause, right? Do you currently follow a zero carb diet? How long have you ever gone following a zero carb diet before? What does your diet consist of, nothing but meat? Wow, I'm pretty sure I just linked you to another GIM account that you also post on, solely based on this garbage link that has been posted here many times before. I can't imagine anyone would actually link to this garbage website you posted unless they: a) have an agenda b) have something to gain monetarily, I suppose that's one kind of agenda. I really like the section on "WHY EXERCISE DOESN'T WORK" rofl There are absolutely no sources on your website, and the sections are poorly written with grammar and spelling errors... not to mention blatant disinfo...

messianicdruid | 12-04-2009 02:24 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual I'm raising 5 angus and feeding them about a half-gallon of corn {each} per day. My neighbor says I'm over feeding them. I keep hay available all the time and have about 7 acres of grass for 2 {seven month old} calves, a sixteen month old steer, and two heifers {which will have calves in a couple months}. The steer needs to turn into meat pretty soon. If I stop feeding any corn right now, and let them have only hay and grass, how long before they would be considered "grass fed". Or is it just too late for him to become good pemmicin?

Infidel | 12-04-2009 08:14 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual http://www.google.com/search?&q=grass+finished

Ishkabibble | 01-09-2010 02:00 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual bump... lots of good info in here!

occamsrazor | 01-09-2010 02:37 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Infidel,thanks for the pemmican info but bro,shitting once every 6 days is a horror story.Even heroin addicts who are the most constipated population group on the planet shit more often than this.Every human being must take a healthy shit right after waking up and another time during the same day if one is a bodybuilder and is eating tons of food. Shitting once every 6 days floods your system with toxins and is a sign of some serious trouble,a super-cedentary lifestyle,polips or opioid use,that`s all I can think of...No diet alone could be responsible for such shitting schedule.

kitsune | 01-09-2010 03:26 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual I'm thinking instead of a 274lb duffel bag of Pemmican, maybe 50lb & a box of seeds. Barring the zero-carb bit (doesn't work w/ everyone's body/metabolism) Pemmican is a pretty good & delicious (IMO) survival staple. Thanks!

Ishkabibble | 01-09-2010 11:08 AM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual I think the point to pemmican I see is that it's dense, protein rich, and easily stored. I don't consider it suitable for a diet in and of itself, but I do see it as a great LOW COST way to store protein. If nothing else, the instructions for making it are a worthy addition to a prep stash. What is it... one or two pages? If SHTF, you'll want an easy way to process meat for later. Biltong is one, this seems to be the other.

Infidel | 01-15-2010 07:04 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Quote:
Originally Posted by occamsrazor (Post 2116771) Infidel,thanks for the pemmican info but bro,shitting once every 6 days is a horror story.Even heroin addicts who are the most constipated population group on the planet shit more often than this.Every human being must take a healthy shit right after waking up and another time during the same day if one is a bodybuilder and is eating tons of food. Shitting once every 6 days floods your system with toxins and is a sign of some serious trouble,a super-cedentary lifestyle,polips or opioid use,that`s all I can think of...No diet alone could be responsible for such shitting schedule.
Missing the point here my friend. You do not shit not because you are constipated, but because pemmican digests nearly perfectly into muscle building amino acids and then converted into energy. 90% of fecal matter is dead bacteria. They got nothing to digest, you got nothing to shit.

occamsrazor | 01-15-2010 08:10 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel (Post 2129082) Missing the point here my friend. You do not shit not because you are constipated, but because pemmican digests nearly perfectly into muscle building amino acids and then converted into energy. 90% of fecal matter is dead bacteria. They got nothing to digest, you got nothing to shit.
Infidel, I was a nearly-competing powerlifter in my teens(I stopped at the dosages of "The breakfast of the champions" which I found unacceptable.One needs to abuse this stuff to compete even on the teen amateur circuit).I`ve been studying nutrition since I was 14. Zero-carb is a giant scam and a not too slow suicide. Our bodies run on carbs the way cars run on gas. What happens in the case of your diet is that protein and fat is converted by the body into the nessessary glucose at the great expense of metabolic energy and producing VAST amounts of toxic by-products. Chinese used to execute criminals by feeding them a meat-only diet, it`s a slow,horrendous death.

mightymanx | 01-15-2010 08:15 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual If you read "South" By sir Ernest Shackelton he makes mention of starving and wasting away by eating only meat. They had to survive on seals and penguins for almost 2 years and they were almost dead from malnutrition by the time they were rescued.

____hoot____ | 01-15-2010 10:16 PM
Re: You can survive on this only -- Lex Rooker's Pemmican Manual Heck, I always thought pemmican was a 1 1 1 mix of dried pounded meat, dried pounded berries, and rendered fat. Remember reading that as a kid. Will have to research it again. Don't think that that pure meat and fat diet in very smart either. Add a 1/3rd dried berries and it sounds more like a complete food. I don't see any storage problems with dried berries, as for cripes sake!!! you can keep raisons in the kitchen cabinet for years.

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