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- - Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=432729)

ShortJohnSilver | 12-16-2009 11:27 PM
Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) What I mean is, can anyone describe how to buy debit cards on the cheap from the welfare bums for cash and then use that to get your preps? Without getting involved in a method that can involve fraud charges. Once the food stamp transaction goes through, the food is now their property, right? And they can dispose of their property any way they choose. When they step outside the supermarket, you take the case of goods or whatever and hand them an agreed upon amount of cash (of course at a discount to what the item would usually cost). Example: let's say Spam is $2 each, you tell them to get a case of 12 ($24 at the checkout), for which you will pay $12. They go into the market, buy the stuff, meet you outside in the parking lot. You give them $12 and take the Spam - now they have cash, and you have known-good stuff at 50% off. I am thinking that processed food like cans, sealed glass jars of pasta sauce, etc. would be the best way to go; it is unlikely that between them going into the market and coming out again, they would have the ability to adulterate it and then somehow re-seal it without you noticing. Ideas? Thoughts? This is sort of a reaction to the realization that Detroit for example, is probably 75% on food stamps, which my tax dollars go to and for which I receive no benefit.

BeefJerky | 12-16-2009 11:43 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Put an ad on craigslist. See what happens. Just remember fraud is fraud whether you get caught or not. You are the one that has to live with your decisions. Wouldn't it be easier to legitimately earn the extra dollars, rather than manipulating a screwed up system? You are what you are and your associations reflect your character.:biggrin:

silverblood | 12-16-2009 11:44 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) You could probably trade 'em spam, rice, beans, etc for a bottle of Thunderbird wine and a pack of generic smokes. But it sounds like a time waster, complicated, and you have to deal with potentially unsavory people. Not worth it. And it seems a bit unethical as well.

TheSkeptic | 12-16-2009 11:58 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) There is nothing wrong with buying EBT cards at a discount. You've already paid for them in tax. Not to mention the fact that they ARE going to get sold, to someone, whether you buy them or not. And if governments were really worried about food stamp fraud, they would enact a simple law stating that clerks had to ID people using an EBT card. Problem instantly solved. They just don't give a shit about fraud and waste.

morganchaser | 12-16-2009 11:59 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Volunteer at a homeless shelter/soup kitchen and befriend one. If you've still got the nerve to look someone in the eye and ask them to be your partner in crime even though you clearly think you're better than them: go for it. Be honest: you never would assosciate with that riff raff long enough to do business with them, you just wanted to talk about them in a disparging manor. "buy debit cards on the cheap from the welfare bums for cash and then use that to get your preps? Without getting involved in a method that can involve fraud charges." I know people in prison with more class and less deserving of poverty than someone who got far enough in life to think they're better than a bum who still thinks that engaging in petty fraud is a smart move. :thumpdown If you need any evidence that some people are more fortunate than others: look no further than this thread. If you want a career in fraud: learn how to use western union and watch Boiler Room. If you need help on fencing food stamps: you're not streetwise enough to get away with shoplifting. Sorry if that's harsh: but honest to god: crime is not for you. Give up on it now before you lose whatever you think you earned.

mtnman | 12-16-2009 11:59 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) "Character and integrity are not defined by that which you do when others are watching but by that which you do when no one is watching" Unknown Quote but it fits this thread.

TheSkeptic | 12-17-2009 12:07 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) As a business owner/employer, I pay: - unemployment insurance - SS/Medicare match for employees - workers comp As a citizen, I pay: - federal income tax - Medicare/SS tax (15% off the top, self-employed) - state income tax (my state taxes my LLC earnings) - sales tax of 9.5% - gas tax - tax on virtually all my utilities - county taxes I just paid about $800 to register my damn car, and they've already taxed the two previous owners. I love how the state can charge sales tax on the same item over and over again. If I owned a home, I'd be paying tax on that too. If I sell any of my metals and report it, I'd pay 28% tax on the gain. I'm probably missing a bunch of taxes, but just those are enough to make me want to puke. I would be delusional to pass on the chance to reclaim some of the money the government steals and wastes. Fvck them. Take away all this bullshit, corruption, and waste, and I'll turn down a cheap EBT card all day long. Me, you, or anyone else refraining from buying these would do absolutely nothing to stop this program and waste. Nothing. Even Ron Paul, who rails against earmarks, has inserted earmarks into bills because he understands that the system is NOT going to change any time soon, and if he doesn't fight some for his constituents, they won't get any of the money being given out.

specsaregood | 12-17-2009 12:17 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2080033) And if governments were really worried about food stamp fraud, they would enact a simple law stating that clerks had to ID people using an EBT card. Problem instantly solved. They just don't give a shit about fraud and waste.
Uhm it is unlikely that there are many people using other's EBT cards. Since the same card gets refilled monthly and requires a pin number. So in order for your scenario to play out somebody would have to permanently sell their EBT card to somebody else and give them the pin. *I suppose you could report the card lost/stolen monthly but not very likely to work for long. More likely is it would be one-time transaction more like the OP described. In reality the EBT cards probably have served to reduce fraud in comparison to the old paper food stamps.

TheSkeptic | 12-17-2009 12:22 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) I know a guy who has been in jail for about a month now, and was apparently just sentenced to another 3-4 months, for various petty charges. He has the card and his girlfriend has been selling his food stamps to raise money. (tip to state: Perhaps if someone is in jail, they don't need their card refilled that month. Just another example of waste) Anyway, her dad bought the dollars on the card and she gave him the PIN number. This guy is my girlfriend's sister's boyfriend (say that 10x fast), so I get to hear all about it. The point is that if someone wanted to sell their card for drugs or whatever, they probably have a regular customer who would just keep the card and pay them every month. The cards don't really offer anything in the way of fraud reduction.

mick silver | 12-17-2009 12:28 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) i know people who do this . they say they dont need the 1000 .00 of food so they sale what they dont use so thay can pay other bills

morganchaser | 12-17-2009 12:34 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2080046) I would be delusional to pass on the chance to reclaim some of the money the government steals and wastes. Fvck them. Take away all this bullshit, corruption, and waste, and I'll turn down a cheap EBT card all day long. Me, you, or anyone else refraining from buying these would do absolutely nothing to stop this program and waste. Nothing. Even Ron Paul, who rails against earmarks, has inserted earmarks into bills because he understands that the system is NOT going to change any time soon, and if he doesn't fight some for his constituents, they won't get any of the money being given out.
You would have to be delusional to think being caught on camera dicking with the federal government is worth $250 a month when the person you bought the card from is inevitably going to fail a piss test, and will NARC you out to his PO at the drop of the hat. Or maybe he get's arrested buying meth, or drunk driving... I'm not saying don't scam the government: I'm saying I don't think the OP should attempt it. The proper way to scam foodstamps is you give SOMEONE YOU TRUST a grocery list and they buy your grocery's for you each month in exchange for a 50% discount. If they think 50% isn't enough: find a bigger addict. $125 a month is hardly worth the hassle for either of you. Pay them any more than 50% and you're just committing crimes for pocket change. It's small time as is. Here's the kicker: the only person stupid enough to accept 50% for perfectly good food will rat you out in a heartbeat, and opportunities to do so finds these kinds of people.

TheSkeptic | 12-17-2009 12:37 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) You make some very valid points. For me it would be more the thrill of: a) not paying sales tax (and it's really high here) b) getting back some of my money To me that would be thrilling. So it's worth way more than the money! :) I do think food stamp "fraud" like this is something an already overworked Assistant US Attorney would laugh at. Yes they're dickheads, but they also have financial and time limits. I don't see a big FBI investigation over this. And especially not at the state level, if they wanted to look into it. Kind of like identity theft; unless there is major money involved, good luck getting them to even pick up your file.

specsaregood | 12-17-2009 12:41 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2080065) Anyway, her dad bought the dollars on the card and she gave him the PIN number. This guy is my girlfriend's sister's boyfriend (say that 10x fast), so I get to hear all about it. The point is that if someone wanted to sell their card for drugs or whatever, they probably have a regular customer who would just keep the card and pay them every month. The cards don't really offer anything in the way of fraud reduction.
Maybe the use of the cards hasn't cut out fraud amongst people that know and trust each other (such as your example) ie: relatives. But it has certainly cut down fraud compared to the days where crackheads could just sell the cash straight up to anybody and have the transaction end there with both parties walking away anonymously. I always found it slightly amusing that you can't buy toilet paper with food stamps....

Saul Mine | 12-17-2009 12:42 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) A lot of those cards are only good for a few bux a month. If you want to go into crime, at least go into something worth the trouble.

ShortJohnSilver | 12-17-2009 12:52 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Certainly some interesting comments in this thread so far ... just wondering why some of you outraged ones haven't questioned my parentage yet... Let me let you in on a family secret ... my paternal grandfather was in fact, on welfare during the 1930s-1940s, in a small PA mountain town that has never really seen "good times". He worked in the coal mines and had to learn both English and Pennsylvania Dutch in order to communicate - his native Italian was of little use. He bought a small cheap farm in the hills, everyone thought he was nuts because the valley is where you want to be. When he died, the farm that he worked and slaved over, was sold and the proceeds went to... the government. Why? At that time, taking welfare created a sort of lien against your property and any other assets you had, so when you died, or tried to sell them, the government seized the part they were owed as they were the first creditor in line. Note: I went back to visit the farm, the 20 acres or whatever he had is now worth 100s of thousands due to location. Compare and contrast that to what is happening today, where no liens are created and there is precious little fraud control of any sort. Am I right that you can own a home free and clear, and still get some form of welfare/food stamps/etc.? Today I walked past the Toys for Tots area in a large multi-tenant warehouse (visting a client) where the illegal aliens and the other welfare bums were standing in line waiting for a handout. Eligibility for T4T is often kept restricted to those on food stamps or other Fed welfare programs. I walked out the warehouse door to the parking lot - at least 80% of the cars of "the poor" were nicer than mine. Yes, one of the cars was a late-model, nice looking 90s Mercedes S-Class; lots of SUVs and recent minivans also. You're right ... I probably don't have the guts to go through with the food stamps program. Too much self-respect, not really a good trait to have for SHTF. But I would never look down on someone taking advantage of this fraudulent, corrupt, counter-productive, anti-humanity, completely immoral system to do legitimate preps for themselves or their family.

Firenhole | 12-17-2009 01:00 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) I have been approached in the grocery store by individuals asking me if I would let them pay (EBT) for some of my groceries and then give them the cash, twice it was because they can't buy cigs/alcohol. I am disabled and qualify for food stamps, four years ago it was $60 monthly, I do not apply. I get enough help with housing (studio) 30% of my SS, I feel better about a shitty, degrading situation by not taking more than I can survive on. Maybe if I lived in a large Metro area I would feel different but here in NH I see very few use EBT cards...

tanner12oz | 12-17-2009 01:28 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) ive been told by people who have the cards that theres to much money on the card for them to possibly spend..... also this is a horrible idea

morganchaser | 12-17-2009 01:45 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Mine (Post 2080103) A lot of those cards are only good for a few bux a month. If you want to go into crime, at least go into something worth the trouble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortJohnSilver (Post 2080115) Certainly some interesting comments in this thread so far ... just wondering why some of you outraged ones haven't questioned my parentage yet... Let me let you in on a family secret ... my paternal grandfather was in fact, on welfare during the 1930s-1940s, in a small PA mountain town that has never really seen "good times". He worked in the coal mines and had to learn both English and Pennsylvania Dutch in order to communicate - his native Italian was of little use. He bought a small cheap farm in the hills, everyone thought he was nuts because the valley is where you want to be. When he died, the farm that he worked and slaved over, was sold and the proceeds went to... the government. Why? At that time, taking welfare created a sort of lien against your property and any other assets you had, so when you died, or tried to sell them, the government seized the part they were owed as they were the first creditor in line. Note: I went back to visit the farm, the 20 acres or whatever he had is now worth 100s of thousands due to location. Compare and contrast that to what is happening today, where no liens are created and there is precious little fraud control of any sort. Am I right that you can own a home free and clear, and still get some form of welfare/food stamps/etc.? Today I walked past the Toys for Tots area in a large multi-tenant warehouse (visting a client) where the illegal aliens and the other welfare bums were standing in line waiting for a handout. Eligibility for T4T is often kept restricted to those on food stamps or other Fed welfare programs. I walked out the warehouse door to the parking lot - at least 80% of the cars of "the poor" were nicer than mine. Yes, one of the cars was a late-model, nice looking 90s Mercedes S-Class; lots of SUVs and recent minivans also. You're right ... I probably don't have the guts to go through with the food stamps program. Too much self-respect, not really a good trait to have for SHTF. But I would never look down on someone taking advantage of this fraudulent, corrupt, counter-productive, anti-humanity, completely immoral system to do legitimate preps for themselves or their family.
I appologize: I misread you. I maintain that this is a bad gamble, however it's yours to make, and I would be presumptuous to pretend to know how capable of a criminal you are. :signs14:

latitude22 | 12-17-2009 01:49 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) I say push the moral envelope a little more and just stick people up out front of the Publix, take their food and tell them to beat it. If you want you can spin an interesting yarn as you hold them up, tell them about how you were going to buy food stamps, which they pay for with their tax money and that you are effectively cutting out the gov't middle man saving both them and you time.

ShortJohnSilver | 12-17-2009 09:53 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by latitude22 (Post 2080170) I say push the moral envelope a little more and just stick people up out front of the Publix, take their food and tell them to beat it. If you want you can spin an interesting yarn as you hold them up, tell them about how you were going to buy food stamps, which they pay for with their tax money and that you are effectively cutting out the gov't middle man saving both them and you time.
Why would I take away jobs from the social workers and tax collectors?

ShortJohnSilver | 12-17-2009 10:22 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 2080039) "Character and integrity are not defined by that which you do when others are watching but by that which you do when no one is watching" Unknown Quote but it fits this thread.
I'll keep that in mind for your next "widow robber" thread ... :111:

chad | 12-17-2009 10:24 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 2080039) "Character and integrity are not defined by that which you do when others are watching but by that which you do when no one is watching" Unknown Quote but it fits this thread.
jc watts said that in the republicans response to one of clinton's state of the union addresses.

Twisted Avatar | 12-17-2009 11:07 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) You can probally apply for it yourself and get them State is so effed up right now everybody qualifies for FS. T

mtnman | 12-17-2009 11:35 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortJohnSilver (Post 2080582) I'll keep that in mind for your next "widow robber" thread ... :111:
Hold on a minute...I don't steal, I pay the asking price. It's not my place to educate you as to the value of an item.

11S11ver | 12-17-2009 11:52 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Say what you want but the food stamp program has been an excellent societal pacifier. I make too much to qualify but my cousin and his family of three qualifies for $750 per month. I spend $300 on groceries a month. I don't know what I would do with $750. Probably buy filet mignon and lobster tail every week. As long as the population is kept fat with free lunches, TPTB are free to take what they want. There is a underground food stamp economy in the urban areas. Food, paid for with food stamps, traded for cigs/alcohol/drugs. You give them a grocery list with $100 worth of food, they trade you for $50 worth of whatever. Totally unsustainable. When the state can no longer pay the bill, or, when the amount on the card no longer has any relevant purchasing power, I will consider that TS hitting TF.

specsaregood | 12-17-2009 12:10 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Worth mentioning. About 9 years ago when I was in TN, anybody could go in and get a month to 3 months of food stamps without any real qualifications or documentation. Just the claim to need "emergency" food stamp help. Maybe things have changed since then, but might be worth checking out....

TheSkeptic | 12-17-2009 02:36 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 2080770) Hold on a minute...I don't steal, I pay the asking price.
You mean, like if someone says, "I will sell you $100 worth of food stamps for $50", and you say "yes?" I love reading your "widow robbing" threads - I appreciate resourcefulness and savvy. I don't understand where your stance on this issue is coming from.

mtnman | 12-17-2009 05:25 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2081217) You mean, like if someone says, "I will sell you $100 worth of food stamps for $50", and you say "yes?" I love reading your "widow robbing" threads - I appreciate resourcefulness and savvy. I don't understand where your stance on this issue is coming from.
If someone offered to sell me a counterfeit $100 bill for $20 I'd say no also. There is a line between a good deal and stealing. Just a couple of days ago a person came in my shop with scrap copper for sale. He had about 200lbs of residential wire and �� copper pipe. He wanted $50, I told him I was too broke to buy copper right now. I�m sure his copper was stolen and I try REAL hard not to buy stolen property.

TheSkeptic | 12-17-2009 05:29 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Again, I'm not sure where the parallel is here. No one is talking about buying stolen property. When the govt gives someone food stamps, they become the property of that person. They can do whatever the please with them; it's no different than the govt giving someone a check, which they can then cash and give to whomever they please.

Barrettone | 12-17-2009 05:38 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2081217) You mean, like if someone says, "I will sell you $100 worth of food stamps for $50", and you say "yes?" I love reading your "widow robbing" threads - I appreciate resourcefulness and savvy. I don't understand where your stance on this issue is coming from.
Draw whatever moral comparison you want...it is merely semantics. There is no "moral high ground" in this argument contrary to what some think. I see both sides of the issue, and to me there is no right or wrong answer. I do know first hand (my cousin has a bridge card) that there is WAAAAY more money on that card than she uses in a month (for food). Would I hold it against her if she wanted to cash in the remaining balance at 50% for cash so she could get the kids some clothes or a X-mas present? Hell no. You need more details to make an informed decision. Do you know they are spending the remainder on drugs or booze? Or is it for other necessity items that don't qualify for purchases with a bridge card (such as feminine hygeine products, toiletries, clothes, etc...)? Mountainman, you can't cast that stone, until you know the whole situation and what the end-use is for the money. If it is an unknown, then I also don't see anything wrong with purchasing the remaining dollars that aren't getting used. To each his own...but I think you are way off base making a blanket judgement like that. Sorry. It is, afterall, theres to spend or BARTER with IMO. Now if the money is for something like drugs or alcohol, AND YOU KNOW IT, that is different. YMMV

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latitude22 | 12-17-2009 07:16 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Seriously if you have to ask how to do something without avoiding fraud charges odds are it's "shady". If you don't have an issue with the moral aspect of the transaction, then I think buying it at the "food" stage of the transaction would be less likely to amount to fraud. Knowingly engaging in any transaction to defraud the gov't is fraud, so in theory I would say if you purchase the food from someone knowing they purchased it with food stamps then you would technically be committing fraud. If you're looking for cheap food, I don't know about your area, but around here there are a bunch of churches that give out free food to poor folks, just dress up in some grubby clothes, talk to yourself and mumble about implants and aliens and you'll get all kinds of canned foods and stuff. On a more serious note there's a dented can store around here that sells dented canned foods for next to nothing. I stumbled across it because I started selling a local company's product and oddly enough it turns out their shop was two blocks away. I was getting a similar product all the way from california, now i can drive up the road when I sell some and replenish inventory.

Firenhole | 12-17-2009 07:33 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2081579) Again, I'm not sure where the parallel is here. No one is talking about buying stolen property. When the govt gives someone food stamps, they become the property of that person. They can do whatever the please with them; it's no different than the govt giving someone a check, which they can then cash and give to whomever they please.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic...5_htheca209558 Skeptic read this article...do you still believe your quote? "when the Gov gives food stamps they become property of that person. They can do whatever they please with them..." Food stamps are an entitlement NOT a right, if they are misused they are revoked, you'll most likely loose any other gov assistance also!

ShortJohnSilver | 12-17-2009 08:32 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 2081569) If someone offered to sell me a counterfeit $100 bill for $20 I'd say no also. There is a line between a good deal and stealing. Just a couple of days ago a person came in my shop with scrap copper for sale. He had about 200lbs of residential wire and �� copper pipe. He wanted $50, I told him I was too broke to buy copper right now. I�m sure his copper was stolen and I try REAL hard not to buy stolen property.
You raise exactly the right issue, "whose property is the can of Spam bought with food stamps"? Either it is government property, and buying it is a form of theft; or it is the property of the person who bought it from the store, and buying it from them is no different than any other transaction.

gypsybiker45 | 12-17-2009 08:44 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) In Michigan food stamp fraud over 500 dollars is a four year felony. I knew a couple back in the 90s that sold some of theirs and the guy went up the river for 9 months (pled out) the wife got 300 hrs community service. food stamp benefits suspended for one year.The family(yes kids) then had to go begging to churches and relatives for food.The buyer got two years. This was for around 3k worth of benefits. every once in a while the county will have a sting on this, I wouldnt risk it personally.

mtnman | 12-17-2009 09:35 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortJohnSilver (Post 2081920) You raise exactly the right issue, "whose property is the can of Spam bought with food stamps"? Either it is government property, and buying it is a form of theft; or it is the property of the person who bought it from the store, and buying it from them is no different than any other transaction.
Food stamps are given to a person depending on that person�s situation. In theory if you are receiving more food stamps than you really need for food you are supposed to tell the social worker and they will reduce the amount you receive. They are NOT intended to be traded for anything and doing so is fraud.

Unclad Lad | 12-19-2009 12:22 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
When the govt gives someone food stamps, they become the property of that person. They can do whatever the please with them; it's no different than the govt giving someone a check, which they can then cash and give to whomever they please.
Food aid is government provided assistance, and can be decreased or cancelled at any time. Unlike wages earned or real property the user has no inherent right to them. Upon receiving their monthly EBT they can spend it as they wish on food; yes, some are buying steak and lobster, but I know many more who are trying to stretch their dole over the entire month. Having recently lost my job I am seriously considering applying for them. For someone used to working and paying his own way, the process for getting them is complicated and somewhat demeaning--on purpose, I think, to discourage too many citizens from getting them. I have been living off my stores more than I did before, and I've left quite a dent. I need to replenish them, and having relied on them I've learned where the holes and deficiencies are. I've learned a bit about my deficiencies too. Bottom line: if you are struggling enough that you need the stamps to get by then get them. But the potential risks to your freedoms from participating in food stamp fraud aren't worth the few bucks you might gain.

Ag_man | 12-19-2009 01:19 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Thanks for the http://www.bumwine.com/ link, great stuff! :beer: Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblood (Post 2080018) You could probably trade 'em spam, rice, beans, etc for a bottle of Thunderbird wine and a pack of generic smokes. But it sounds like a time waster, complicated, and you have to deal with potentially unsavory people. Not worth it. And it seems a bit unethical as well.

StackerKen | 12-19-2009 01:43 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) This is why people are condemned: The light came into the world. Yet, people loved the dark rather than the light because their actions were evil. John 3:19

thrifty_bob | 12-19-2009 07:57 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 2084414) Food aid is government provided assistance, and can be decreased or cancelled at any time. Unlike wages earned or real property the user has no inherent right to them. Upon receiving their monthly EBT they can spend it as they wish on food; yes, some are buying steak and lobster, but I know many more who are trying to stretch their dole over the entire month. Having recently lost my job I am seriously considering applying for them. For someone used to working and paying his own way, the process for getting them is complicated and somewhat demeaning--on purpose, I think, to discourage too many citizens from getting them. I have been living off my stores more than I did before, and I've left quite a dent. I need to replenish them, and having relied on them I've learned where the holes and deficiencies are. I've learned a bit about my deficiencies too. Bottom line: if you are struggling enough that you need the stamps to get by then get them. But the potential risks to your freedoms from participating in food stamp fraud aren't worth the few bucks you might gain.
As a taxpayer, I don't have so much problem with people that have lost their jobs getting food stamps, and if they have been wise enough all along to squirrel away food, then I see nothing wrong with them using the food stamps to replenish or bolster their stores. As compared to the $750,000 per soldier per year being spent annually for these idiotic wars, I see it as at least useful spending for the most part. (and please do not think I don't think our soldiers are getting their fair share of the $750,000 each per yr). I do think buying food stamps from the poor or getting them to buy food for you with them is wrong. Oh well.... We seem to worry about the chump change while billions are borrowed and dumped out the window to the buddies...

Publico, Pro Se | 12-19-2009 08:10 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Have a problem with a person receiving the stamps to sell them for booze and/or smokes. No problem if sold or traded for asswipe, soap, other necessary toiletries.

Saoirse | 12-19-2009 09:18 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) :4_1_72: Quote:
Originally Posted by morganchaser (Post 2080038) I know people in prison with more class and less deserving of poverty than someone who got far enough in life to think they're better than a bum who still thinks that engaging in petty fraud is a smart move. :thumpdown
Exactly. :23_28_100s: Keep your class and only engage in major fraud. :111: (Only kidding, LEOs!)

TheSkeptic | 12-19-2009 09:40 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 2082030) Food stamps are given to a person depending on that person�s situation. In theory if you are receiving more food stamps than you really need for food you are supposed to tell the social worker and they will reduce the amount you receive. They are NOT intended to be traded for anything and doing so is fraud.
I see your perspective. But food stamps are given to a person from funds forcibly taken from other members of society (you and me included). Just like these stupid wars, the welfare state, Social Security, bailouts, prison-industrial complex, socialized medicine, etc. To me, this changes the game. If food stamps were paid for voluntarily, I would see it differently.

Saoirse | 12-19-2009 10:03 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2085190) I see your perspective. But food stamps are given to a person from funds forcibly taken from other members of society (you and me included).
That's debatable, no? I mean, what really is the genealogy of the food stamp dollar? Is it from taxes? Is it from federal grants? Is it from bonds & treasuries? Is it from lotto?

TheSkeptic | 12-19-2009 10:34 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) I highly doubt it's from lotto. It's probably from one of the myriad of involuntary taxes.

StackerKen | 12-19-2009 11:26 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) If a person feels the need to rationalize their reason for doing something.... That means to me, that they know its the wrong thing to do.

TheSkeptic | 12-19-2009 11:39 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) I'm not rationalizing anything. Just stating some fact, and some opinion. I would be completely comfortable buying/using food stamps. I paid for them the first time already.

mtnman | 12-20-2009 07:26 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2085277) I highly doubt it's from lotto. It's probably from one of the myriad of involuntary taxes.
Food Stamps are paid for by your FICA tax, just like Welfare and Social Security.

Brio | 12-20-2009 09:00 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) I don't see how not taking advantage of it would change a damn thing. The gov just keeps more tax dollars is all. Not like they'll hand back what isn't spent, perhaps they could even send one more soldier to Kandahar.

TheSkeptic | 12-20-2009 11:01 AM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 2085613) Food Stamps are paid for by your FICA tax, just like Welfare and Social Security.
I have 5 employees who pay the 7.65% tax, and I have to match the other 7.65%. Not to mention that until we changed the business structure and made me a limited partner, 15% of my gross earnings were taken for this bullshit off the top, then I am liable for another 25% or more (because of my income bracket) in federal income taxes. That's before the state gets their greedy little hands on my corporate income, and before I pay an outrageous 9.5% sales tax at the grocery store. At these rates, they ought to be sending me a god damn voucher for steak and lobster every day. Quote:
Originally Posted by Brio (Post 2085654) I don't see how not taking advantage of it would change a damn thing. The gov just keeps more tax dollars is all. Not like they'll hand back what isn't spent, perhaps they could even send one more soldier to Kandahar.
Exactly. Each department wastes as much money as it can, so its budget/power can be at least the same, or greater, the next year. Like I mentioned, Ron Paul does put earmarks into bills for his district, even though he is violently opposed to them. He just knows that the money WILL be spent, he may as well get a piece of it for his people.

gangsta99 | 12-20-2009 12:01 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) I actually agree with Skeptic on this one. .gov is screwing us in every which way possible. I am in my late 20s and I don't expect to see a dime from the money I am paying into S.S. and Medicare. So I see absolutely nothing wrong with coming out ahead in this type of situation. .gov IS DESTROYING this country right before our eyes, why not try to salvage a little of what I am going to lose in this process in any which way possible?

latemetal | 12-20-2009 12:18 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Some how I expect this subject to show up on the TV show "My name is Earl". This just makes me think "trailler park trash" or inner city druggie. I know, been there,done that, and got the t-shirt.:bull-smile:

StackerKen | 12-20-2009 12:19 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by gangsta99 (Post 2085823) I see absolutely nothing wrong with coming out ahead in this type of situation. .gov IS DESTROYING this country right before our eyes, why not try to salvage a little of what I am going to lose in this process in any which way possible?
Because two wrongs don't make a right?

TheSkeptic | 12-20-2009 12:30 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by traderken (Post 2085846) Because two wrongs don't make a right?
1 + 1 does not equal 3. Your logic doesn't work, because what we are talking about is not "wrong" in the first place.

StackerKen | 12-20-2009 12:39 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Just a guess here.... Most food stamps are probably intended to feed Children

TheSkeptic | 12-20-2009 12:49 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) If you have ever not reported income, or tweaked a tax return, you have starved a child. Give me a break.

StackerKen | 12-20-2009 01:04 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2085878) If you have ever not reported income, or tweaked a tax return, you have starved a child. Give me a break.
Are you asking forgiveness? John 8:11 Bible in Basic English Then Jesus got up, and seeing nobody but the woman, he said to her, Where are the men who said things against you? did no one give a decision against you? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, And I do not give a decision against you: go, and never do wrong again.

StackerKen | 12-20-2009 01:15 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Conscience From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Conscience is an ability or a faculty that distinguishes whether one's actions are right or wrong. It can lead to feelings of remorse when a human does things that go against his/her moral values, and to feelings of rectitude or integrity when actions conform to such norms. The extent to which conscience informs moral judgment before an action and whether such moral judgments are, or should be, based wholly in reason has occasioned debate through much of the history of Western philosophy. Commonly used metaphors for conscience include the "voice within" and the "inner light".

TheSkeptic | 12-20-2009 01:17 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) *sigh* How many kids could we have fed in the time it took you to mess with me? :111:

StackerKen | 12-20-2009 01:20 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2085918) *sigh* How many kids could we have fed in the time it took you to mess with me? :111:
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:N.../handshake.jpg I deleted my Post admitting That I was messing with ya. Cause I wanted to mess with you a little longer...lol I guess you saw it before I deleted it.:smile:

StackerKen | 12-20-2009 01:29 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) anyway...Its just My Opinion, That its not the right thing to do thats all Just sayin Not judging

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Saoirse | 12-20-2009 02:10 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) 1 in 4 kids in America are on food stamps. Check out this map for a county by county breakdown of usage: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...oodstamps.html

Brio | 12-20-2009 02:28 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by Saoirse (Post 2085986) 1 in 4 kids in America are on food stamps. Check out this map for a county by county breakdown of usage: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...oodstamps.html
I was comparing that to a map of red state/blue state, and it looks to me like a majority of the people on food stamps are in republican territory. Wouldn't it better serve their purpose if they voted liberal? I mean if the libs are the ones bent on handouts and welfare why are the recipients of food stamps voting conservative?

specsaregood | 12-20-2009 03:23 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by Brio (Post 2085998) I was comparing that to a map of red state/blue state, and it looks to me like a majority of the people on food stamps are in republican territory. Wouldn't it better serve their purpose if they voted liberal? I mean if the libs are the ones bent on handouts and welfare why are the recipients of food stamps voting conservative?
Just because one doesn't agree with govt handouts doesn't mean they won't take them if they need them. One could argue that they wouldn't be necessary if the govt wasn't in the way. Or that the states could do these programs better than the feds. Besides that, you don't see many republicans running on the "end food stamps" platform anyways. It's also similar to how the blue states are gonna get screwed on this proposed healthcare legislation with the nation-wide income level criteria. The blue states have a higher income level on average, so red state citizens will overwhelmly be more likely to qualify for "free healthcare" than the blue states.

TheSkeptic | 12-20-2009 03:28 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) I have never got that. Why the hell do hyper wealthy people WANT Nanny State socialism? Shouldn't they want ultra low taxes and less regulation, so they can keep more of their money? Baffling.

Goldfinger007 | 12-20-2009 03:54 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2086061) I have never got that. Why the hell do hyper wealthy people WANT Nanny State socialism? Shouldn't they want ultra low taxes and less regulation, so they can keep more of their money? Baffling.
Because they want control over everyone more than money, which they make back many times over the taxes they might have to pay.

Unclad Lad | 12-20-2009 05:34 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Leaving out the ethical considerations, look at the time, inconvenience, and penalties for food stamp fraud and you'll realize that the rate of return is too low to bother. In time and effort spent you're better off reading a book, learning a new skill, or working in your garden.

demosfen | 12-25-2009 08:41 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2080046) As a business owner/employer, I pay: - unemployment insurance - SS/Medicare match for employees - workers comp
I avoid these fines by not having employees. Low unemployment is against the law

TheSkeptic | 12-25-2009 10:15 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by demosfen (Post 2094079) I avoid these fines by not having employees. Low unemployment is against the law
Not an option if you want to have a growing business....

demosfen | 12-25-2009 10:32 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) My thinking is, why have a growing business when you can have one that isn't growing? What's in it for us, business owners? Your situation may be different, but I am not convinced I'd be making more if I hired people, after all the taxes and trouble. I could make a million-dollar business out of it, it would be GREAT for IRS and for the economy (not for me). They'll have to abolish every piece of anti-employment legislation, or else I'll keep it small.

mike77777 | 12-25-2009 10:38 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) independent contractors work instead of "employees" in many situations.

TheSkeptic | 12-25-2009 11:37 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by mike77777 (Post 2094209) independent contractors work instead of "employees" in many situations.
The IRS has a laundry list of triggers that disqualify someone from being treated as an independent contractor. And the state will shit a brick if they find out you've been trying to game their unemployment and/or applicable state income tax system like that. Not a good option unless your people truly ARE independent contractors.... and most aren't.

TheSkeptic | 12-25-2009 11:40 PM
Re: Buying "food stamps" for preps (pay off the indigent at a discount) Quote:
Originally Posted by demosfen (Post 2094204) My thinking is, why have a growing business when you can have one that isn't growing? What's in it for us, business owners? Your situation may be different, but I am not convinced I'd be making more if I hired people, after all the taxes and trouble. I could make a million-dollar business out of it, it would be GREAT for IRS and for the economy (not for me). They'll have to abolish every piece of anti-employment legislation, or else I'll keep it small.
Everyone's situation is different, yes. The philosophy I adopted over the last few months is: expand, hire an accountant and a payroll service to handle the red tape and bullshit, and increase the amount of money that goes into your pocket at the end of a day. More net profit is always worth it, unless it means you will be involving and expending yourself in a way that decreases the quality of your life.

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