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Agfinger | 08-28-2009 02:41 PM
Need some advice on a unique generator setup I am thinking about setting up an emergency generator outside, mainly for bad weather and in case an ice storm leaves us without power for 10 days, (like once back in the 1990's). I have a freezer full of deer meat that I don't want to lose. The setup I'd like to do is fairly budget minded and not to run my entire house. Ideally, I'd like something along the lines of a portable propane 5KW generator, but with a twist. I'd like to wire in a small exterior breaker box with two or three 110V breakers that the generator could be safely plugged into. From that box, I'd like run exterior conduit to two homeruns under the house to emerge next to existing outlets served by my electrical panel beside my freezer and refrigerator. These outlets would be wired ONLY to the inlet coming from the small breaker box from the generator and would not have anything to do with existing home wiring. The plan would be that if the power were to be out an extended period of time, I could simply roll the generator to the rear of the house, plug it into the exterior breaker panel and start the generator. I would then go in the house and move the freezer and the refrigerator cords to the adjacent plugs that are serviced by the generator only. Does this sound feasible and has anyone ever done something like this? I want to avoid cutting into any wiring and this seemed like an option. Also, would a 5KW generator safely run the fridge, the chest freezer and a couple of 60 watt lamps all simultaneously? Any advice or comments appreciated.

Golddust | 08-28-2009 02:55 PM
Re: Need some advice on a unique generator setup Quote:
Originally Posted by Agfinger (Post 1891411) I am thinking about setting up an emergency generator outside, mainly for bad weather and in case an ice storm leaves us without power for 10 days, (like once back in the 1990's). I have a freezer full of deer meat that I don't want to lose. The setup I'd like to do is fairly budget minded and not to run my entire house. Ideally, I'd like something along the lines of a portable propane 5KW generator, but with a twist. I'd like to wire in a small exterior breaker box with two or three 110V breakers that the generator could be safely plugged into. From that box, I'd like run exterior conduit to two homeruns under the house to emerge next to existing outlets served by my electrical panel beside my freezer and refrigerator. These outlets would be wired ONLY to the inlet coming from the small breaker box from the generator and would not have anything to do with existing home wiring. The plan would be that if the power were to be out an extended period of time, I could simply roll the generator to the rear of the house, plug it into the exterior breaker panel and start the generator. I would then go in the house and move the freezer and the refrigerator cords to the adjacent plugs that are serviced by the generator only. Does this sound feasible and has anyone ever done something like this? I want to avoid cutting into any wiring and this seemed like an option. Also, would a 5KW generator safely run the fridge, the chest freezer and a couple of 60 watt lamps all simultaneously? Any advice or comments appreciated.
1.Do you have a dryer outlet handy? If you do and the generator you get has a 220v outlet. You can make up a cord that runs from the generator to the dryer outlet. 2. If you do something like this you would need to throw the main breaker on your house panel. Then you will have power to all of your house you would just have to be careful of how much load you put on the generator. That way you will not restrict your self to a couple of outlets. The important thing is there is some danger involved . 1. The male plug on the dryer side of the plug with the gen running. 2. Not throwing the main breaker on the main's panel and back feeding power to the grid. Edit: 5kw should run a frig and freezer and some lights with no problems. Also may run a blower motor on c/h system if you are gas fired. On the power cord make it up with 10g wire and keep it as short as possible.

Tn...Andy | 08-28-2009 03:11 PM
Re: Need some advice on a unique generator setup You can do it without the separate runs.....use this: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....30114A_200.jpg Sold Places Like Here Plus you will need a male/female cord from the generator to the transfer switch socket. Using a male/male plug into a dryer outlet is a good way to get hurt if the generator is running, those exposed prongs are HOT ( as Golddust says ) With a transfer switch, you use the same wiring as now, the breakers simply toggle up for line power and down for generator power, and center is off/trip. This wheel has already been invented :biggrin:

Agfinger | 08-28-2009 03:14 PM
Re: Need some advice on a unique generator setup Quote:
Originally Posted by Golddust (Post 1891431) 1.Do you have a dryer outlet handy? If you do and the generator you get has a 220v outlet. You can make up a cord that runs from the generator to the dryer outlet..
Thanks for the answer... No dryer outlet anywhere close by to where I am coming in. I don't really want to run anything else except for these two outlets because it's basically emergency only... I figured for a budget set-up, I could do this and since each outlets has two plugs, I would have a light for each outlet as well as the other plug which could be used for a lamp or modem for my battery operated laptop. This would eliminate anything to do with my existing service panel. My heat is electric central with backup wood and kerosene,(if needed). I found this and it looks like exactly what I need. The plug comes in from underneath and it's weatherproof. It looks like I could run a few circuits from this to where I want. http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....16B/p1120.html

mayhem | 08-28-2009 03:19 PM
Re: Need some advice on a unique generator setup I have my 7,500k genset wired as Goldust said for many a year now. Heck I can even run the hot water heater for a hour to have a hot shower.

Agfinger | 08-28-2009 03:26 PM
Re: Need some advice on a unique generator setup Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1891455) You can do it without the separate runs.....use this: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....30114A_200.jpg Sold Places Like Here Plus you will need a male/female cord from the generator to the transfer switch socket. Using a male/male plug into a dryer outlet is a good way to get hurt if the generator is running, those exposed prongs are HOT ( as Golddust says ) With a transfer switch, you use the same wiring as now, the breakers simply toggle up for line power and down for generator power, and center is off/trip. This wheel has already been invented :biggrin:
Thanks Andy...I realized that there were options for wiring it into the regular wiring, but I'd prefer not to cut into, mess with, or have anthing to do with the existing wiring. I just want two nice, stout, safe circuits that I can run completely separate from my existing wiring only on a as-needed basis. Otherwise they would be dormant and would feed to nothing except for the outside plug for the generator.

Golddust | 08-28-2009 10:38 PM
Re: Need some advice on a unique generator setup Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaCannin (Post 1892190) I have been wondering along this topic too. We are trying to find a way for our 6500kw generator to run our 1 HP well pump (240 ). If I do the Transfer Switch like TN mentioned will we have enough power to run the well? (not all the time but enough time to fill some buckets or barrels. ) I originally am like Agfinger and wanted to keep it completely separated from the electrical grid.
With limited power You have to have the generator close to the load. And use the largest wire size you can get away with. I would guess yes on the 1hp well pump as long as the pump is close to the generator. This and also running lights in the house and refer/freezer. If the pump is 100' from the gen set.. maybe not.. Just a thought.

Golddust | 08-28-2009 10:51 PM
Re: Need some advice on a unique generator setup Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaCannin (Post 1892213) The well is about 50' from the electric panel. I would not be running anything else at the same time. The pump is about 70 feet
All I can say is to dry run and test it. Try and see if it will do the trick... I think is may be all right. But try it, better now,, than really needing it and finding it will not work... Edit: The reason I am bringing up the distance from the gen set. My father had a 10kw gen set and was proud of it, one day when I was up to see him. We did a test. He had a shop about 200' from the meter on the house and that is where the shop power came from. Power came from the grid to the meter then split to the house and then to the shop. The wires were #8awg from shop to house.It was a good 200' run We had to pull the meter to keep from back feeding the grid. About the only thing he could run in the house was the lights and fans. No a/c and could barely run the reefers/freezers. The Wire run was too long and I think wire size to small. Tried to get him to move the gen set to the meter and put a transfer switch in. But he passed away before any thing could be done.. Just saying.

Golddust | 08-28-2009 11:21 PM
Re: Need some advice on a unique generator setup Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaCannin (Post 1892217) Using this system, can you use any electrical outlet in the house, or do you have to some how tie the transfer box in to the electrical panel for what out lets you want to run? (sorry if these are dumb blonde questions!!!)
To use the transfer to run the house .yes it has to tie into th electrical panel in the house. If you do not know how..best to have a electrician wire it for you!

Golddust | 08-29-2009 12:06 AM
Re: Need some advice on a unique generator setup Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaCannin (Post 1892333) Yeah, I will get an electrician to do it, I am just trying to get basic knowledge of how its done. Hubby said you have to wire from the transfer box breaker switch to each breaker in your main panel that you want to have power. I though it just tied into the whole panel at one spot and then you would have power on every outlet in the house. Confussed again!
http://www.anetstation.com/images/generate.gifThe diagram shows the addition of the DPDT transfer switch. Note that the loads you have determined to be necessary in an emergency must be moved from the main breaker to the sub panel. When the transfer switch is in the normal position, power is routed through the switch to the circuits attached to the sub panel. When power is lost and generator power is to be used, notice that the switch must be moved to the "generator as source" position. Once the switch is moved, the desired loads may get power from the generator connection. Even if main power is restored, the desired loads are isolated, and will continue to receive power from the generator until the switch is returned to the normal position. Notice that there is a special connector shown on the diagram. This is the only place that you will find a plug with exposed contacts mounted on a piece of equipment in your house (except your computer). It is a connector that is panel mounted with a recessed set of male contacts (like a plug, not a socket). Remember from the text above that anything that can be the source of power has a socket. Since the opposite ends of the transfer switch are wire to connector and the source in the main breaker panel, the connector can never be delivered power from the main. Edit: There are line transfer switches that you can have installed that will switch out the main power to the house to the gen set that will allow you to have power to all of the house. They are usually installed between the power meter and your main electrical breaker box. You can ask any electrician about that option. Hope this helps....

markt | 08-29-2009 07:23 PM
Re: Need some advice on a unique generator setup 1 Attachment(s) The drawing from the previous post is actually not correct in not showing the neutral wires. The line into a house or from most generators has a minimum of three wires. For a common 240 volt setup, the three wires are the hot "A" phase, the hot "B' phase, and the neutral. For transfer switches that only have two poles, the neutrals from the generator and the input line need to be permanently connected (otherwise the 240 volts can't split into two 120 volt halves to feed the wall sockets). A big transfer switch ahead of the panel box needs to be at least as many amps as the panel is rated for or it doesn't meet code and will fail an inspection. Most panels today are 200 amps. A 200 amp transfer switch will be expensive. I just paid $400 for mine. Another diagram of how it is done:

Txkstew | 09-01-2009 02:03 PM
Re: Need some advice on a unique generator setup I've run my water well lots times on my 6000w generator during the last twenty years. After the last hurricane, one year ago this month, I ran everything in my house. Just not all at the same time. I'm one of those that throws the main breaker, and wires into the whole house. Whenever the water well kicked on, it put a big strain on the generator, and would try to bog it down for about 15 seconds. It would do this until the well motor got up to speed. That's when the heaviest load is, during the in rush. The lights would dim, the Satellite Dish system and the TV might freak out, the floor fan would slow down, but nothing ever burned up. Often I'd close the breaker to the well, until I needed water pressure, just to cut down on the strain on the system. I'd plug in the refrigerator during the night, and slept under a 110vac window A/C unit. I wish I had a bigger Generator, just so I didn't have to worry about burning up the water well motor.

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