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silverJeep | 12-04-2006 11:14 AM
Indoor Propane Heater With all these winter storms in the mid west, it's really got me thinking that I have to get an indoor propane heater. I have several propane tanks (from small camping size to 20 lb, to 100 lb). I have a wood burning fireplace, but heat is limited to the living room, and minimal at that. Been looking at: Click image to enlarge... http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dim...0,200&cvt=jpeg For indoor or outdoor use No electrical outlet needed. Keep those goose bumps at bay with this 4-lb., 11 1/2 x 7 3/4" hot little number that puts out 3,000 BTUs and a pressure regulator for consistent heat output. Space heater has quiet, platinum catalytic technology for flameless heat, running up to 10 hours on a 16.4-oz. propane cylinder (not included). High and low-heat settings. Use in your tent, camper, garage, or keep warm outside while hunting, fishing or camping. Get 'em while they're hot... and available at this savings price! Order ONLINE Now! Brinkmann� Portable Catalytic Space Heater WX2-92132 - Brinkmann� Portable Catalytic Space Heater $49.97 Compare at $60.00 Club Price $44.97 Heater is NEW, improved, totally portable, get more POWERFUL heat! Click Portable Heater to enlarge... http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dim...0,200&cvt=jpeg http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dim...0,130&cvt=jpeg Hose for 20-lb. cylinders "hides away http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dim...0,130&cvt=jpeg Switch for on/off blower fan to distribute heat faster The Mr. Heater� Big Buddy Propane Heater, now with TWICE the BTU output of the previous model, and with more propane capacity! Heater has wo 1-lb. propane cylinders offer from 3-12 hours of heating. Two 20-lb. cylinders heat up to 400 sq. ft. for up to 220 hrs. (propane cylinders and tanks not included. Hoses sold below) 3 Heater settings... 4,000/9,000/18,000 BTU/hr. Powerful blower fan uses AC plug-in (adapter not included) or D batteries. Or just use unit as a radiant heater CSA-certified safe, with unique low-oxygen sensor and tip-over automatic shut-off Effortless built-in piezo electric starter Durable porcelain-coated reflector, wire safety guard Propane heater measures 17 x 10 x 17 1/2", approx. 15 lbs. "Key" rear holes for wall mounting. Shiver no more...get yours ONLINE today! Obviously the "Big Buddy" will give more heat, but I'm curious as to what my fellow GIMers think, and use. FYI - I'm all electric at the house, so if that goes out, I'm down to wood and propane. No place to put a wood burning stove. Can't do a generator right now. Any thoughts on Kerosene heaters? (pros, cons)

Nuggethunter | 12-04-2006 11:37 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Catalytic RV Heaters - A Nortstar Flameless Product http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/r...eater-3000.jpg http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/r...eater-6000.jpg http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/r...aters-9000.jpg 3000 Btu 6000 Btu 9000 Btu Catalytic Heaters for RVs and Patios provide instant, penetrating radiant heat. Catalytic Heaters for RVs, patios and other portable applications are ventless and have no open flame. They burn at a safe temperature that is below the ignition point of clothing, paper and most materials. Northstar's catalytic technology requires no fan or electricity. This means that they can be used as a RV, portable or patio heater. Note: All combustion processes require oxygen. Standards require at least a 1 square inch fresh air opening for every 1000 BTUs of propane used by any appliance. Two vents, one low on an outside wall and the other high on another outside wall. This means that replacement air (oxygen) is provided. Catalytic RV Heaters Additional Information All three models of the propane catalytic heaters have a Standard 3/8" SAE Flare Gas Connection, and come with a piezo spark ignitor. BTU Output:Sunlite Sunray Sunburst Minimum 1800 3500 5500 Average 2500 4000 7250 Maximum 3000 6000 9000 Fuel Consumption on High 1/8 lb. per hr.1/4 lb. per hr.1/3 lb. per hr.Size: Height 12.5"19.5"22.5"Width 12.0"13.5"17.5"Depth 3.5"4.0"4.0"Weight 9 lbs 13 lbs 20 lbs Area Heated*Up to 110 sq. ft.Up to 230 sq. ft.Up to 290 sq. ft http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/r...heaters-rv.htm These are just some ideas, that will help you get what would be best for you. These units are super safe; no pilot lite , thermostatic controlled and you can just leave them on . and economical. There mostly wall mount, , but in a pinch they will keep the chill out over an extended time with good economy on fuel. You hook a rubber line to it from a propane bottle. And keep the bottle outside and run a copper or rubber line thru a wall. There a bit spendy. I keep these around in a pinch , they heat up a room in seconds and are safe, I left it burning in the itchen when the power went out. http://www.northerntool.com/images/p...173633_med.gif http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...pane%20heaters

Curtman | 12-04-2006 11:41 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater I would strongly recommend against any vent-less propane heater unless you are able to throw a cat threw the leaks in your walls. JMO

hoarder | 12-04-2006 11:42 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater I wouldn't buy a tent heater that runs on expensive little disposable propane cannisters to heat a house. I'd get one of those infrared vent free heaters and hook it up to one of your large bottles. They're very economical and efficient to run. Other options include 12 volt fans to circulate to back bedrooms, or hooking a generator to your house wiring to circulate central air. Even a very small generator would run the "fan only" mode and you could just run it 3 or 4 times a day for 20 minutes to circulate woodstove heat.

Nuggethunter | 12-04-2006 11:46 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtman (Post 434434) I would strongly recommend against any vent-less propane heater unless you are able to throw a cat threw the leaks in your walls. JMO
Curt is there such a thing as a non-ventless portable heater?

Curtman | 12-04-2006 11:56 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggethunter (Post 434441) Curt is there such a thing as a non-ventless portable heater?
Who said anything about portable? I guess I missed that. I would not have a ventless heater in a closed building no matter how convincing the spin is. I have already seen the results in very real skin disorders and suspected asthma bouts in others.

hoarder | 12-04-2006 12:07 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtman (Post 434451) Who said anything about portable? I guess I missed that. I would not have a ventless heater in a closed building no matter how convincing the spin is. I have already seen the results in very real skin disorders and suspected asthma bouts in others.
Thanks, didn't know about that, but it sounds plausible. No doubt refiners include all sorts of by-products in the propane they sell. For temporary use the catalytic/infrared type heaters still get my approval. I was wondering if carbon monoxide detectors should be used with them though.

Nuggethunter | 12-04-2006 12:07 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Fireplace Hearth Heater http://www.northlineexpress.com/imag...s/checkout.gif http://www.northlineexpress.com/images/5GS-FH-D.jpg Product ID: 5GS-FHK Fireplace Hearth Heater The Fireplace Heater was developed to dramatically increase convection heat (hot air) coming from your fireplace. The unique design of this grate heater super heats the air within the exchanger tubes to over 500'F and will produce up to 60,000+ BTUs of heat, enough to heat a large room or two. It fits into most fireplaces and has a limited one year warranty. Easy to install, simply assemble the blower on the tubes, seal it with the supplied silicone sealer and set into your fireplace then plug it in and build a fire. The heavy tubing is designed for long life and still works during power outage by convecting heat naturally through the tubing and into your home. The blower is connected to the grate by means of a flexible tube which allows the blower to be positioned in front of the fireplace opening. Tubes made of aluminized steel. Unit size: Height 20 1/2" (removal of legs reduces height to 18"), Depth 18", and Width 17". Click here for a brochure. For smaller fireplaces see the FHZC Fireplace Heater. For wider fireplaces a custom Fireplace Heater can be ordered consisting of 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 steel tubes. Custom sizes will take approx 2 to 4 weeks to receive. Pick sizes from the menu options below. Low cost Delivers up to 60,000 BTU's of heat 2 speed blower Fits most fireplaces (measure first) 1 year warranty Simple installation 500% heat output increase Heavy tubing for long life Works during a power outage Flexible blower connector is adjustable from 8" to 12" and can be extended if necessary by ordering an additional flexible tube from the menu below. Heat Pipes are made of .063 gauge aluminized steel which inhibits burn thru and rust. Blower Box can mount on left or right side by flipping the manifold. 160 CFM on fan Diameter of tubes 1 3/4" Each additional heating tube will add approximately 4" to the width of the unit. Not recommended for use with a glass fireplace door. See the Cozy Grate Heater or Emberair Grate Heater for glass door applications. http://www.northlineexpress.com/deta...ID~5GS-FHK.asp a friend of mine has one of these in his firplace. Each of those 5 ports is blowing out hot air similar to a hair blow dryer. Worked great. Need 110 to run the blower.

Tn...Andy | 12-04-2006 12:27 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater SJ, The heaters you mention would work well, though you do realize only for a single room or two. The "Buddy" brand you can also flip upright and use the grill as pot holder for cooking as well. I have a single head model I use out on construction work sometimes. I find it runs about 24hrs on high on a 20lb bottle. I'd avoid kerosense heaters. They are messy to fill ( and I don't care WHAT you do, you'll manage to slop kero eventually ), smelly on start up and when the run out of fuel, and, as a bonus, they put a LOT of moisture in the air when burning.....in a tight environment, you'll actually have a moisture problem. My advice is get a wood stove insert for your fireplace and keep a stock of firewood. You can get a dang good used insert out of the Tri-Cities Trading Post or the IWANNA for 300-500 bucks. Save the propane for cooking.....get you a Coleman propane camp stove and a rubber hose adapter to run it off a larger tank, like a 20lb'er. http://www.tpost.com/ http://www2.tricitiesiwanna.com/

silverJeep | 12-04-2006 12:33 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Hmmmm, interesting Hearth Heater. Can't help but think it would blow at least some smoke into the house. Makes me think of zig-zagging copper tubing along the underside of my existing rack and then running the tube to the front of the fireplace and attaching a small blower. Same principle, maybe not as efficiant, but could probably make myself, and would keep my fireplace from looking like a Flintstones rack of ribs.:cheerful:

silverJeep | 12-04-2006 12:38 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 434493) SJ, The heaters you mention would work well, though you do realize only for a single room or two. The "Buddy" brand you can also flip upright and use the grill as pot holder for cooking as well. I have a single head model I use out on construction work sometimes. I find it runs about 24hrs on high on a 20lb bottle. I'd avoid kerosense heaters. They are messy to fill ( and I don't care WHAT you do, you'll manage to slop kero eventually ), smelly on start up and when the run out of fuel, and, as a bonus, they put a LOT of moisture in the air when burning.....in a tight environment, you'll actually have a moisture problem. My advice is get a wood stove insert for your fireplace and keep a stock of firewood. You can get a dang good used insert out of the Tri-Cities Trading Post or the IWANNA for 300-500 bucks. Save the propane for cooking.....get you a Coleman propane camp stove and a rubber hose adapter to run it off a larger tank, like a 20lb'er. http://www.tpost.com/ http://www2.tricitiesiwanna.com/
Thanks Andy, you always come through for me. Do you know where I can get a used shed of some sorts? My wood is exposed and have found that when you really NEED it, is when it's wet (ice, rain, snow storms). ...could get a tarp but would rather put it IN something. You keep yours in the Basement right? No worry of termites?

electric-amish | 12-04-2006 01:26 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Laughing my soda out my nose---Flint stone rack of ribs:rofl: Propane or Kerosene need some fresh air--crack a window or two and its there. I will probably get a Wood burning stove for next house as they can seriously put out the heat. My father and I built a cabin in the woods and had a wood burning stove with a blower that we got up to 95 degrees in the cabin while testing how hot it would get. This on a 20 degree night. I would check with Vermont castings for a stove without a blower for heat back up without electric. E-A

Ghost Recon | 12-04-2006 01:39 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater I've got a Vermont Castings (gas) stove, no electricity needed. It throws a ton of heat. I also have a kerosene heater. As long as you fill it and put it out, outside, they are fine. If anything goes wrong with a 20lb propane cyclinder (inside the house), I'd bet the insurance company will not cover the loss.

Halophyte | 12-04-2006 02:06 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater I'm running a Mr. Heater "Big Buddy". About 16,000 btu max to heat my 30 footer, I run a bathroom exaust fan (replaced the cheap RV type with a 100 cfm DC brushless fan scrapped from a big 'puter) with a larger window cracked open, for positive ventilation. I don't have condensation problems normally associated with ventless heat. No CO problems either. I also run LP leak det and smoke alarms. .

CityBoy | 12-04-2006 03:44 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater I use kerosene but we always have one around in case my wife gets cold anyway. Pros: The fuel isn't explosive and won't catch fire as long as you store it correctly. Modern heaters (1980 or so and up) are safe for day-to-day use, even around pets and kids. Cons: Messy to refill, have to let cool to be safe. Stinks. Your place smells like a bus station for about 20 minutes on start up and snuff. I have no idea which fuel produces more heat per $. I've seen housewives use pots of pot-pourri (sp?) on top of them to kill the smell and make the house stink like flowers the entire time the thing is running. I'm up in the air over which smell I prefer :smile: Use a CO detector. I believe you should have one anyway.

silverJeep | 12-04-2006 04:30 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by CityBoy (Post 434664) I use kerosene but we always have one around in case my wife gets cold anyway. Pros: The fuel isn't explosive and won't catch fire as long as you store it correctly. Modern heaters (1980 or so and up) are safe for day-to-day use, even around pets and kids. Cons: Messy to refill, have to let cool to be safe. Stinks. Your place smells like a bus station for about 20 minutes on start up and snuff. I have no idea which fuel produces more heat per $. I've seen housewives use pots of pot-pourri (sp?) on top of them to kill the smell and make the house stink like flowers the entire time the thing is running. I'm up in the air over which smell I prefer :smile: Use a CO detector. I believe you should have one anyway.
Thanks, City. I'm with ya on the pot pourri vs. fuel smell.... don't know which is worse. Everywhere else I've lived, I haven't seen Kerosene, but since i moved to TN, I see Kerosene for sale, containers, and heaters at the stores and at Garage sales. My wife has a super sense of smell, so I think that about shuts the door on Kerosene. ...back to wood and propane. ...the search continues. Thanks for all the input from everyone!!!!!

Tn...Andy | 12-04-2006 06:10 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by silverJeep (Post 434693) My wife has a super sense of smell, so I think that about shuts the door on Kerosene.
It will bother you even if you don't have a super smeller. I have 3 of them brand new, still in the carton, along with 6 of the blue 5gal plastic kero containers, that I bought for my rentals for emergency heat ( they were all electric also ) in case we have another one of those "Blizzards of '93" ( and it was in APRIL !! ) where the power was out for 1-2 weeks depending on where you were ( 12 days here at my house ) I planned to take them over there and make the renters keep them going in the basements at least just to keep me from having to repair a bunch of broken pipes. Lot of folks had to virtually abandond their houses during that time and came back to a mess......so you are wise to look ahead to such possibilities. We had another mess in '95 that wasn't quite as long ( about a week ), but again, some areas around here are worse than others. We get heavy, wet snows that take down a lot of trees, and it just flat overwhelms the power company on repairs....the late winter/early spring ones are the worst. Tell what ELSE I'd do.....especially if your water heater has some age on it......change to propane water heater.....best dang move I've made in a long time ! I can live without the electric......but a hot shower is a the difference between misery and relative comfort IMHO. I guarantee, a hot shower will make ANY situation somewhat brighter. And if you go propane on the hot water, just go ahead and get yourself a small unvented propane wall heater( get the blue flame type, about 15-20,000 BTU )...put it down in the den or lower hall of your house, and it will go a long way toward keeping the house comfy....especially if you just shut off the bedroom doors. But all around, wood is the best IMHO.....you can heat and cook on it as well. Get yourself about 8-10 4x4x8', 12- 5/4x12' decking boards, and 10 2x6x8' ( get it all in treated lumber ) and I'll supply the metal for the roof and sides ( I've got a bunch of 3'wide painted metal I used to cover my lumber piles with....now I use a shed, and it's just laying here....and I'll come over one Saturday, ( 1/2 day project....you supply the burgers ) and we'll build a 6'x12' by 7' high firewood shed....that will hold 3 cords of wood easy, and be more than you'd burn all year if you used it every day. And if you can find a better deal than that, take it. :D

Curtman | 12-04-2006 06:30 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Can't beat that offer. And heck you guys got it good, we used to burn 6 cord of maple in a mild winter.

silverJeep | 12-04-2006 11:59 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 434792) ItGet yourself about 8-10 4x4x8', 12- 5/4x12' decking boards, and 10 2x6x8' ( get it all in treated lumber ) and I'll supply the metal for the roof and sides ( I've got a bunch of 3'wide painted metal I used to cover my lumber piles with....now I use a shed, and it's just laying here....and I'll come over one Saturday, ( 1/2 day project....you supply the burgers ) and we'll build a 6'x12' by 7' high firewood shed....that will hold 3 cords of wood easy, and be more than you'd burn all year if you used it every day. And if you can find a better deal than that, take it. :D
WOW, that's quite generous Andy, THANKS!! Now just need to come up with the money for the lumber. I'll look at our finances and see when we can do it (we're running pretty tight right now). CAN'T WAIT!!!!! Thanks again!!

silverJeep | 12-05-2006 12:53 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 434792) Tell what ELSE I'd do.....especially if your water heater has some age on it......change to propane water heater.....best dang move I've made in a long time ! I can live without the electric......but a hot shower is a the difference between misery and relative comfort IMHO. I guarantee, a hot shower will make ANY situation somewhat brighter.
I agree about the hot shower thing, our house was build in 2000, I've wondered how "efficiant" our water heater is. Something we have is SUCKING electricity bigtime. We run a usual $220 electric bill in hot or cold weather. In comaparison, when we lived in Louisiana our bill was about $100 - $140. (that house was built in '98). In LA we left all lights on, ran the AC/Heat 24/7. Here we use everything sparingly, keeps lights out when not needed, and still can't get below $200. Somethings wrong with that!

Curtman | 12-05-2006 07:15 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater YOu need to have someone watch the meter and start throwing breakers and see what is pulling all the juice. I do not know if your new location is just a higher price for each KW but that seems like a big change. I will say that my bill here runs about 430.00 for two months but everything is high out here. My friend just came back from hunting in TN and says it is the cheapest place in the country he has ever been. He wants to buy something down there but the humidity is a big concern. I have family just outside of Moro Arkansas and was there some years ago. I like the place fine but again that humidity. Have to sit out buy the pond and shoot turtles and catch catfish just to keep the sweat down.

bl96S5eu | 01-15-2007 10:54 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 434493) The "Buddy" brand you can also flip upright and use the grill as pot holder for cooking as well.
Andy, could you get some sort of USB or Firewire port to your brain so I can just start downloading content? On the Buddy issue I've done some searching and I think I've found what you're talking about but just wanted to verify. On the issue of cooking in the tech specs it states, "Automatic low-oxygen shutoff system and tip-over switch", did you 'modify' the unit ala Tim "The Toolman" Taylor or is there some sort of override? http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w..._211577_211577 http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...7957_200307957

Tn...Andy | 01-15-2007 11:35 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Sorry.....I hadn't looked at a picture of them.....I'm talking about a different one....a single head version of this: http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/...V35364917_.jpg This is the kind I have, and is also made by "Mr Heater". You can rotate the head around to where it is pointed straight up and then put a pot on the safety "grill" thing.

AgAuGal | 01-15-2007 01:10 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 474692) Sorry.....I hadn't looked at a picture of them.....I'm talking about a different one....a single head version of this: http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/...V35364917_.jpg This is the kind I have, and is also made by "Mr Heater". You can rotate the head around to where it is pointed straight up and then put a pot on the safety "grill" thing.
I think this is what I am looking for in a pinch. I mentioned at the seminar I was considering kerosene but I have backed off that idea with all the input. When we discussed porpane didn't know this is what you guys were refering to. This looks like something I could handle tpo provide heat in the house and I know I can carry a propane tank. Need to look into getting one or two of these. Thanks for the thread. Update: went to Mr. Heater web site - this could be a set back for my indoor heating plan: • For outdoor use only

bl96S5eu | 01-15-2007 01:20 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Thanks for the clarification Andy. One more, hopefully the last, question. Everything I can find on those heaters shows they're for outdoor use only but I'm curious why those are outdoor only and the Buddy models are for indoor use. What is difference in the design?

GoldRocks | 01-15-2007 01:27 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater True "catalytic" heaters, running on propane or natural gas, do NOT require any venting. They are sealed units. The burning gas creates a catalytic reaction inside the unit. Don't ask me how they work beyond that, they just do. lol We use them in the natural gas industry, inside high pressure gas regulator stations, to keep the regs from freezing when it's too cold. (you also lose more temp when you cut pressure, ie: 7 degrees F is lost, for every 100 psi cut) Their only downside is they produce a lot of moisture. These buildings are quite small though, so a house probably wouldn't be affected that much. Since these are made for RV's, I would assume they are ventless too. I would add an appliance reg set at about 2 ounces, between the heater and your larger regulator/tank, unless they are rated for the higher pressure. Just FYI

mtnman | 01-15-2007 11:23 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by silverJeep (Post 435524) I agree about the hot shower thing, our house was build in 2000, I've wondered how "efficiant" our water heater is. Something we have is SUCKING electricity bigtime. We run a usual $220 electric bill in hot or cold weather. In comaparison, when we lived in Louisiana our bill was about $100 - $140. (that house was built in '98). In LA we left all lights on, ran the AC/Heat 24/7. Here we use everything sparingly, keeps lights out when not needed, and still can't get below $200. Somethings wrong with that!
It could very well be your meter. They do go bad. I had one several years ago that doubled my bill in one month. Power company checked it, said it was OK. No change in the bill. I filled it with holes from a BB gun and called the power company again. Blamed it on the neighborhood kids. They changed the meter and my bill went back to normal. The meter was bad.

AgAuGal | 01-16-2007 12:01 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnman (Post 475317) It could very well be your meter. They do go bad. I had one several years ago that doubled my bill in one month. Power company checked it, said it was OK. No change in the bill. I filled it with holes from a BB gun and called the power company again. Blamed it on the neighborhood kids. They changed the meter and my bill went back to normal. The meter was bad.
A man after my own heart :haha: :banana: :haha: :banana: :haha: :ARMS1: :rose:

bl96S5eu | 01-16-2007 04:54 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Thanks for the recommendations, as we live in a small town and had unexpected heat issues the pickins were slim but found one of these and even on the low setting it was getting too warm for everyone in the living room after a day earlier it not getting above 60 in the same room. We got the CO detector up on the wall by it and I made a quick little stand to prevent a tip over 'event' with an extra little heat shield below the unit (a small piece of corrugated metal roofing). So we're toasty and got another prep item done in the event we're ever w/out power.

tulsamal | 01-17-2007 01:05 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater OK, I'm curious. I've got the same kind of basic heat both of my rural grandparents had: propane floor furnace. So if a propane heater "requires" a vent, how do floor furnaces work? You can look right down through the grate and see that it burns a whole bunch of propane inside of a big hollow metal thing. That can't be airtight though or there would be no oxygen for it to burn. So does it "leak" air in and out down under the floor or what? And my grandfather also had one of those small little wall units that burned propane as well. Just heated that one room. Blue flames inside of little ceramic type grates. There was no vent on that unit. Just trying to figure out how the old-timers "made do" with this stuff without dropping dead! Gregg

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bl96S5eu | 01-17-2007 08:42 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsamal (Post 476762) Just trying to figure out how the old-timers "made do" with this stuff without dropping dead!
The dropping dead part is not what worries me, it is more the asthma issue that Curtman brought up. Did some research last night and there are a few things out there discussing asthma but nothing that I've seen that is too conclusive, if someone knows of something I'd like to read it. I put our combo fire/CO detector about 3 feet directly above the unit when I first fired it up on high and it stated that we had a fire, didn't mention one iota about CO but from the reading I had done the problem was with defective units.

bl96S5eu | 01-17-2007 11:38 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Instead of talking about it I actually sent an email direct to Mr. Heater, below is my email and their response. As an aside their turnaround was quick, I sent the email just an hour ago. Quote:
Originally Posted by bl96S5eu Is the reason that a unit like the MH12T is only approved for outdoor use is that the propane tank is attached to the unit or is there a design issue (for example too much CO being released) that causes the unit to be dangerous?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr-heater Partially, yes. But even more important is the "Original" series tank tops do not have either Tip over shut off switches or Oxygen Depletion Systems for safe "Indoor" applications.

AgAuGal | 01-17-2007 02:24 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Thanks for getting that cleared up. So anti tipping and ODS are import features for indoor use - got it.:applause_

bl96S5eu | 01-17-2007 03:09 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by AgAuGal (Post 477448) Thanks for getting that cleared up. So anti tipping and ODS are import features for indoor use - got it.:applause_
Personally I don't think they're that big of a deal that you 'must have' I rigged up a little piece of metal that hooks into the hold on the bottom of the tank and on the issue of ODS I'm not quite sure but it would seem the CO sensor would prevent most of the deaths that I've read about. Maybe one of our resident experts can discuss how prevalent oxygen deprivation deaths are w/out a significant rise in CO, as long as you crack a window it would seem that the oxygen depletion issue would be nearly nullified. http://www.fluwikie.com/pmwiki.php?n...ences.FuelHeat

GoldRocks | 01-17-2007 09:44 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater CO (carbon monoxide) is NOT produced just by burning a fuel. (fossil or otherwise) What it is produced by, is burning a fuel (any fuel), incompletely. Without sufficient combustion air, more CO is produced. If sufficient combustion air is supplied, almost no CO is produced in the burn. And, orange flames produce more CO than blueish/white flames do. They just don't burn as hot. Lower burning temps have less efficient combustion. Simply put, a wood burning fireplace produces more CO than a gas burning furnace does. Unless the furnace is starved for air in some way. (intake or exhaust) For the average J6P though, CO detectors are as important as smoke detectors IMHO. Also, most CO detector related trouble calls where I work actually turn out to be fireplace or attached garage related. (car exhaust) FWIW

bl96S5eu | 01-17-2007 11:06 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Ok GoldRocks since you seem to have paid attention in chemistry what is the deal with the Oxygen Depletion Sensors? Is it just that people use these things in places that are well sealed and this is protection for that or is there some other thing I'm missing here. Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldRocks (Post 477915) For the average J6P though, CO detectors are as important as smoke detectors IMHO.
So what do you have some sort of built-in CO sensor or something else that you would like to share? As I enjoy learning fill me in here. :coolbeer:

Au_Ag | 01-17-2007 11:21 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater I bought a 20,000 btu LP GAS vent free heater designed for a permanent installation - in wall installation- frome Home Depot - was on sale at the time for somewhere around $25 Purchased regulator and flexible piping - Mounted the heater, 20 lb tank and regulator semi-permanently on some hand trucks - Voila - instant portable heat - I was gonna use a much larger tank - can't remember if it was 50 or 60 lbs. Problem was, couldn't get the damn large tank filled but one or two places - cheaper and easier to use the 20 lb tanks so I took the large tank back and exchanged for other merchandise. The vent free heater has an oxygen depletion sensing pilot - or some such - supposed to shut off if the pilot can't burn - I did this mainly because my parents and other family members have had problems in previous years from power outages - then we had killer ice storm last year - and I was the first to use it - power was out for five days. I figure I'll just take it on the hand trucks to whatever family member is without power. Worked well - roll it to the bedroom at night - roll it out to the great room during the day.

pancjn | 01-18-2007 12:37 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Goldrocks is right. Unvented burners when used in closed areas will produce carbon monoxide when the oxigen begins to deplete. Every year, here in Michigan, we lose a few hunters when they use propane heaters in their tents. It only takes a small opening in the tent entry way or bedroom window to maintain the normal 19% oxigen content in air. Play it safe--let a sacrifice a little heat for fresh air.

Hi Ho | 01-18-2007 01:29 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Never bring a bulk tank inside your house or basement. A hose, tank shutoff valve or pressure relief valve leak could turn it into toothpicks.

GoldRocks | 01-18-2007 08:05 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Quote:
Originally Posted by bl96S5eu Ok GoldRocks since you seem to have paid attention in chemistry what is the deal with the Oxygen Depletion Sensors? Is it just that people use these things in places that are well sealed and this is protection for that or is there some other thing I'm missing here.
Actually no, I didn't pay attention in chemistry. lol My learning came from on the job training. I've worked for a large natural gas utility for quite a few years now. (ie: the evil gas company) I started out as a service technician and eventually morphed into the system maintenance side of our business. Now instead of fixing/troubleshooting customer equipment, I get to play with much higher gas pressures, and also respond to fires, explosions, underground leaks, regulator station repairs/maintenance, etc. Way more fun imo, and way less J6P's to deal with each day. lol We don't use oxygen depletion sensors in our business. We do have test equipment with oxygen sensors in them, but they track oxygen percentage in real time. (20.8% oxygen is considered normal, the rest of what we breathe is mostly nitrogen) Most of our industry needs revolve around natural gas detection (ie: methane, or CH4). The most sensitive of these tools uses internal flame ionization to produce a reading. It can detect methane down to 0-10 ppm's (parts per million), on the lowest setting. I always tell people it can pick up an ant fart in Egypt. lol It's mostly used to pinpoint underground leaks. I don't use CO detectors at my home because I'm not J6P. I can troubleshoot and repair my own appliances, and can check and monitor my chimney condition, appliance flame patterns, etc., whereas the average Joe doesn't have a clue. I know what to look for and why, because it was part of my training years ago. (that and a few thousand trouble calls I've done over the years) And all those old guys back in the day, with the primitive in-floor heaters didn't die, because no one had R2000 homes back then. No one had to. Fuel was dirt cheap in those days. No one cared if they had air leaks in the house. Now it's a little different story. Most newer gas heating equipment, by code, has to have combustion air ducting piped directly into the furnace room to replenish whatever air the appliances consume. (unless you have high efficient equipment, which has it's own intake and exhaust pipes out the wall) It's a brave new world......

AgAuGal | 01-21-2007 09:38 AM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater Picked up a Mr. Heater Big Buddy last night and some 16 oz canisters. I was planning to attach it to a 20lb tank but sounds like that would not be as safety oriented to bring the tank inside which was my plan in an emergency. It will take the small tanks or the 20lbs. Also bought a couple of emergency lights suggested by Tn...Andy. They are a night light and will light up if the power goes out. When I lost power a couple of weeks ago I was so proud of myself that I have bought those wind up flashlights - until the power went out and it was too dark to find them easily - I did eventually but these will make it a bit easier. Thanks Andy.

Quixote2 | 01-21-2007 12:56 PM
Re: Indoor Propane Heater I am considering mounting something like this in the basement for emergency heat with natural gas and no electricity. They also have a propane version. My large high efficiency natural gas furnace requires too large a generator to fire the ignitor and the two fans in the furnace. http://www.amazon.com/Heater-GN30TA-...504683-7658233 Will probably shop around for other manufacturers and potentially better price.

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