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Baphomet Jones | 07-29-2007 07:25 PM
Choosing your land To you guys who own land, how did you decide to settle on that particular piece to construct your sanctuaries? What were your considerations? How is the renewable energy on your plot, and was that a major factor in choosing your location?

RiverRat | 07-29-2007 09:20 PM
Re: Choosing your land :rolleyes_m: Water,timber,isolation...in that order. Without a spring,creek,or source of water besides a well,(which I know can be pumped with solar or wind power)....look elsewhere. I have a bold stream and four separate springs for clean and pure drinking water and enough standing timber to build a shopping mall and a couple of subdivisions. Look for totally unrestricted property...that will kill about 98% of all MLS listings instantly. Buy the property and the location,not the house...unless the house is part of the deal. Hint: Expect spouse to go insane and fight your choice tooth and nail :>) Wives and some husbands freak out in all that wild open space...stand your ground and buy it over his/her dead body. When TSHTF you will be King of the Jungle...starvation has that weird effect on people when they realize everything they held to be the truth turns out to be a myth. You can live in a cave if TSHTF,but without basic natural resources you will endanger yourself and your family needlessly by having to swap,trade,or barter for resources you should have considered to begin with. Look at the property,walk it over,then ask yourself could you and your family survive on it without outside help of any kind. Wild game in abundance is another big plus. Unless the neighbors are meth heads or hard core moonshiners I wouldn't judge a potential area or property by what kind of neighbors lived close by. Just some considerations you should think about before you make a final decision. Good luck...and happy hunting. :D:D:D:D

Baphomet Jones | 07-29-2007 09:25 PM
Re: Choosing your land Thanks riverrat! I'll keep all of that in mind. Anyone else want to chime in? Lots of views, plenty more wisdom can come :D

BeeYourself | 07-29-2007 10:02 PM
Re: Choosing your land Quote:
Look for totally unrestricted property
unrestricted in terms of building code oversight, or taxes? Can you explain further and show a current listing of such a property anywhere?

hoarder | 07-29-2007 10:31 PM
Re: Choosing your land Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeYourself (Post 679001) unrestricted in terms of building code oversight, or taxes? Can you explain further and show a current listing of such a property anywhere?
"Restrictions' and "covenants" are written into the deed giving your neighbors the ability to sue you if you violate the restrictions. Some people like restrictions to keep their neighbors from having a junkyard or a hog farm. Developers like them because if the first few tracts they sell quickly become "ugly" and smelly they will have to give the rest away instead of getting top dollar for them. Most restrictions are sloppily written and end up as "welfare for attorneys".

thorgrim | 07-29-2007 10:36 PM
Re: Choosing your land This is a good thread for me as well. I am pretty sure I will be making a purchase soon myself. Right now I have found two really nice pieces of land and I am having trouble deciding. I will comment on them and hopefully this will help bring up some things for Baphomet to consider as well. Option 1 -120 Acres mostly mixed timber the land will need to be cleared for crops/livestock/buildings - about 20 Acres are good soil the rest is rocky - small clean stream runs through a large portion of the land good for drinking/irrigation but might be too small for micro hydro system. -growing zone 4B possibly 5A but in a narrow valley would limit light somewhat. Hot summers. -because of narrowness of valley this would be a very defensible location would be able block road/destroy bridges etc. Only one road to worry about. -city of 50,000 about a half hour away not close to any other larger metro areas Option 2 -20 acres pasture with good rock free soil -Clean slate to work with but little cover for protection or privacy. -Growing zone 6A in an area with hot sunny summers (won't find better than this in Canada) -access to an irrigation ditch but would need a well for drinking -5 minutes from a town of 8,000. Farming community no major metro areas anywhere near. These pieces of land are quite different but still it is a very difficult choice for me. Both have different strengths and weaknesses. Option 1 is probably a much better choice if there is total anarchy but if there was a oil crunch it may be hard get supplies or make a living and I would have to rely on saved money/stored gas etc. Also the remoteness means less community involvement although there are some neighbors. Option 2 on the other hand would be much less defensible if TSHTF especially at first. Although I would do my best to build it up nicely with vegetation/fencing etc. This would be a place that would be comfortable to live and raise a family if things don't get as bad as we think. Being close to a decent sized town would mean less fuel usage and would be a market for food that I could produce. Plenty of people around to trade/barter with if there is a major depression. Both have hunting/fishing opportunities nearby. Anyone else care to add their thoughts?

RiverRat | 07-29-2007 11:36 PM
Re: Choosing your land :D Unrestricted property means anything goes in my state. Mobile homes,hog farms,junkyards,livestock of any flavor,oil wells,shopping malls,mining,RV park,hunting preserve,car dealership...you get the idea. Taxes are non negotiable with any county I've ever dealt with. They would tax the air over your property if they could get away with it. I don't own any property that has restrictions of any type. If it's got even one restriction I wouldn't buy it. Raw land is about all that's left anywhere in the US without restrictions, and it's going fast everywhere. I have enough land to start a huge size winter ski resort if the urge strikes me...if I did I don't have to get permission from the county or jump through miles of BS zoning regulations to pull it off.I would just do it...one of the upside benefits of owning totally unrestricted property :>) When TSHTF and your suburban psycho yuppie neighbors all sue you for planting a vegetable garden in your front yard you will see the insanity of living or owning restricted property plenty fast. If suburbia is your idea of freedom of choice you are in for a big surprise the first day you bring home a couple of chickens and start plowing up the old backyard for corn and beans :>). Your neighbors will freak and demand the sheriff serve you with a violation of land use restrictions and probably demand your arrest and whack you with a lawsuit for threatening a decline in their precious property values. Think Jed Clampett and Jethro Bodine move in next door to Hillary Clinton... Chickens and Hogs and Goats....Oh my :>) Save yourself the grief...you might want to grow sugar cane on the front lawn as a cash crop...read my lips :>) Buy unrestricted property only... :D:D:D:D

thorgrim | 07-29-2007 11:43 PM
Re: Choosing your land A couple more things I would like to add. Both of these properties are in BC in mountainous areas. They are also both vastly better than anything close to where I live now. Edmonton AB, is about 800,000 and metro area just over a million. The weather in this area is extreme (growing zone 3A). Not uncommon to see -40 C a few times (about the same in Fahrenheit) during the winter. If the power or natural gas wasn't available in winter it would be very dangerous. Despite this very few places have a back up fireplace or wood stove and extended outages would cause most peoples pipes to freeze which would mean water problems. I could possibly use my fathers land, he has 160 Acres but it is only a half hour from the City. It is possible to survive even in this climate, my grand parents did OK. Colder weather though means you need more land and have to rely on livestock more as well as canning to carry you through the winter. I would have much less choices of crops. Land in this area is actually quite expensive due to the oil boom so I get much more for my money in parts of BC.

R MacDonald | 07-30-2007 04:06 AM
Re: Choosing your land Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 679023) Most restrictions are sloppily written and end up as "welfare for attorneys".
Please explain that one further if you can. Thanks.

Baphomet Jones | 07-30-2007 07:04 AM
Re: Choosing your land So, unrestricted land, with a stream or river running on it, thats far away from people. Do they have that in new hampshire? I was looking at the white mountains area, but a lot of that land is a national park. I've also got a map that shows the wind energy potential of the area, the national park has the best wind, how ironic that I can't live there. I'm not sure how close I can get, realtors are generally unhelpful and don't want to actually find a place that isn't a park but is as close as possible to the windy spots. http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/5...m800ws3.th.jpg http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9248/wmge3.th.jpg I'll consider other places, if they're similar to NH. I love cold, I want tons of wind, and snow is A-OK with me :D

Darkside | 07-30-2007 08:51 AM
Re: Choosing your land also make sure you have full mineral rights on your land. last thing you want is some big corp discovering gas under your house and get to to drill it without your consent!

skid | 07-31-2007 01:31 AM
Re: Choosing your land Quote:
Originally Posted by thorgrim (Post 679059) A couple more things I would like to add. Both of these properties are in BC in mountainous areas. They are also both vastly better than anything close to where I live now. Edmonton AB, is about 800,000 and metro area just over a million. The weather in this area is extreme (growing zone 3A). Not uncommon to see -40 C a few times (about the same in Fahrenheit) during the winter. If the power or natural gas wasn't available in winter it would be very dangerous. Despite this very few places have a back up fireplace or wood stove and extended outages would cause most peoples pipes to freeze which would mean water problems.
Thorgrim, A few years ago I too came to the realization that the long term prospects of living in Alberta (Calgary in my case) were poor, especially with the harsh year round climate there. I sold my house and purchased 10 acres on the west coast north of Vancouver. Mild year round climate, plenty of timber, absolutely pure water, and the ability to grow almost any fruits and vegetables. I absolutely love it here! You are taking the right steps, although property is very expensive here where I am.

_79 | 07-31-2007 01:53 AM
Re: Choosing your land Quote:
Originally Posted by skid (Post 680162) Thorgrim, A few years ago I too came to the realization that the long term prospects of living in Alberta (Calgary in my case) were poor, especially with the harsh year round climate there. I sold my house and purchased 10 acres on the west coast north of Vancouver. Mild year round climate, plenty of timber, absolutely pure water, and the ability to grow almost any fruits and vegetables. I absolutely love it here! You are taking the right steps, although property is very expensive here where I am.
Could you tell, what you pay per year to the bastards (taxes etc) ?

Darkside | 07-31-2007 10:34 PM
Re: Choosing your land Here's another method for choosing your land: Just pick a black spot... :D http://www.darksky.org/images/sateli...ghts_small.gif

Darkside | 07-31-2007 10:36 PM
Re: Choosing your land Or pick from this map. The lighter the color, the better the county. (Population density) http://content.answers.com/main/cont...on-density.gif

Infidel | 07-31-2007 11:06 PM
Re: Choosing your land If pop density was the best indicator for choosing where to live I would like suggest you move to Gobi Desert. That is pretty dim way to look at things. People aggregate where it is good. yes surely one can make do in the middle of Sahara, but would one want to?

Kahlil Gibran | 07-31-2007 11:18 PM
Re: Choosing your land 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel (Post 681209) People aggregate where it is good.
Attachment 31310 :smokin: like a virus

J.D.Rockinfeller | 07-31-2007 11:42 PM
Re: Choosing your land Quote:
Originally Posted by Baphomet Jones (Post 678900) To you guys who own land, how did you decide to settle on that particular piece to construct your sanctuaries? What were your considerations? How is the renewable energy on your plot, and was that a major factor in choosing your location?
Either : a. I buy a million acres and seclude myself...... or b. I buy a small parcel within 1 mile of 3 million acres surrounded by millions more..... I chose b.:wink: btw, 1 mile from my door begins an area so sparse that there is 60 MILES before i hit a paved road..as long as i go east...

skid | 08-01-2007 12:56 AM
Re: Choosing your land Quote:
Originally Posted by _79 (Post 680169) Could you tell, what you pay per year to the bastards (taxes etc) ?
Due to me being near a resort area, my yearly taxes are $3400. For that I get a barely paved road to the edge of my property. I have my own well, septic, take care of my own garbage, etc. I have 60 neighbors in the mountain valley I live in, with most land parcels being 10 acres. There is only one road in and out that crosses the valley's river several times.

Darkside | 08-01-2007 08:43 AM
Re: Choosing your land Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel (Post 681209) If pop density was the best indicator for choosing where to live I would like suggest you move to Gobi Desert. That is pretty dim way to look at things. People aggregate where it is good. yes surely one can make do in the middle of Sahara, but would one want to?
"Good" in what sense? A survivalist wants land they can draw resources from like water, timber and fertile soil. Look how much of the country with fertile land such as that has low population density. What is "Good" today are places like New York City, San Francisco, Chicago... places where you can find a great paying job, buy whatever you want within walking distance and have a splendid night life. These are are amenities which are useless to a survivalist.

Baphomet Jones | 08-04-2007 09:35 AM
Re: Choosing your land Alright, so I've re-compiled my list: (ok, it was compiled elsewhere :D) Wind Energy Potential as measured by annual energy potential in the billions of kWh, factoring in environmental and land use exclusions for wind class of 3 and higher. 1. North Dakota 1,210 2. Texas 1,190 3. Kansas 1,070 4. South Dakota 1,030 5. Montana 1,020 6. Nebraska 868 7. Wyoming 747 8. Oklahoma 725 9. Minnesota 657 10. Iowa 551 Where can I get the cheapest land? Anyone know a good area in any of these states for some serious wind energy production?

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