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Onboard | 11-19-2009 05:40 PM
Milling timber If anyone could offer up some insight, I would be most grateful. How long can a log be felled before it has to be milled? The logs in question are mostly white oak, eastern red cedar and some red oak. I ask because I have timber that was damaged in an ice storm last winter. The same storm that trapped the duck for so long. Plenty of the timber had been snapped into, half way up or better. The roots are still planted but the tree will most likely die. Others have fallen over with roots showing but the tree is still up off the ground. The ground drains very well and is pretty dang rocky. I plan on purchasing a bandsaw sawmill soon but would like a little feedback from someone more knowledgable than myself. I'm talking about 115 acres that is mostly timber. I hate to see all that timber go to waste and I've got all the firewood I need. Plus I need to be doing something. The logs will range from 8" to 20+" dia.

hoarder | 11-19-2009 05:46 PM
Re: Milling timber I don't know the answer, Tn..Andy probably does. The forum on this site has a lot of info. http://www.arboristsite.com/

Onboard | 11-19-2009 05:55 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 2034368) I don't know the answer, Tn..Andy probably does. The forum on this site has a lot of info. http://www.arboristsite.com/
Thanks for the link. Looks like a ton of info there. I've been researching one called woodweb lately. Edit to add: Fantastic site hoarder, I've added to my favorites. Thanks again!

BeefJerky | 11-19-2009 06:39 PM
Re: Milling timber As long as they're safe from insects you're ok. You would probably benefit by having a harvester come in, if you have that much. FYI - Salvagers pull wood that's hundreds of years old from the bottom of lakes.

Onboard | 11-19-2009 10:17 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by BeefJerky (Post 2034425) As long as they're safe from insects you're ok. You would probably benefit by having a harvester come in, if you have that much. FYI - Salvagers pull wood that's hundreds of years old from the bottom of lakes.
Good to know. I think I'm gonna give this thing a go. From the great site that Hoarder provided, this is what a BobL an Aboristsite MVP has to say about it from a similar question about dead timber that was still standing. http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=115210 The outside of a log has more water and so shrinks more than the inside. While it's all held together by the roots and stump it won't crack much but as soon as you cut it at the stump and into shorter lengths the outside shrinks faster than the inside so cracks will develop. Cutting a log it into square beams by peel off some of the outside will reduce cracking I cut most of my timber into 2" thick slabs and let it dry like that, then I resaw it from there.

MattC | 11-20-2009 09:43 AM
Re: Milling timber I have a chainsaw powered saw mill. A husqvarna 394 xp and the alaskan 30 inch mill. Its hard work but has yeilded me thousands of board feet of "free" lumber. I make furniture and its cool to have 2-inch thick tops if you choose. Its also great to get lumber from trees you have attachement to, like walnut planted by my great grandfather. You will lose a ton to drying cracks. Get a book called "Understanding wood" by professor Bruce Hoaday.

Tn...Andy | 11-20-2009 02:57 PM
Re: Milling timber My first mill was an Alaskan and an 045 Stihl. Built my first shop using it, but as Matt says....'lotta work'....and slow. Couple hundred board feet would be a big day. Advantages are: You can mill the log were it fell, no skidding to do, low initial cost, and you can mill a log as LONG as you want...my shop main beam was an 8x10 36' long ! Try buying THAT at Home Depot....ahahahaaaaaa....but the downside is they are slow, hard work, noisy, and you loose a lot to saw kerf. Then I bought a Woodmizer bandmill.....LT40, which will saw 21' by 34" diameter....portable, so you can pull it right up to where you need to saw, but you still need to skid a little... Nice pile of 2x8's out of white pine.....southern pine beetle ravaged this area about 10 years ago, and I sawed like a maniac, then built 3 rental houses out of the proceeds ! http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...3_p125547.jpeg I HIGHLY recommend the Woodmizer mills.....I think the cantilever technology they have is the BEST going for a small mill, their blades are the best ( they REALLY do understand cutting lumber ) and the service after the sale is top notch, bar none. The really don't even hold you up on parts....for example, most of the common parts, belts, bearings, etc, in my parts book, have the brand name and part number for them.....so, for example, if you need a switch, they give you the Square D number for it so you don't even HAVE to order from Woodmizer.....you can just go to an electrical place and get it....that's CLASS in my book. Want a used one ? ( Again, Woodmizers HOLD their value....resale prices are good ).....go to http://www.sawmill-exchange.com/ .... they always have some in all parts of the country. Onboard: on the oak logs, they can be sawed years later, actually, if you don't mind the fact that beetles will drill out the wood some....if you're using it for finish purposes ( trim, cabinets, furniture ), the sooner you can saw it the better....but if it's for framing/barns/sheds/etc, length of time is not as critical. If you can strip the bark, they won't even rot much....the bark holds water in and without it, not even much damage happens. IF you do plan to saw for finish lumber, get to it as quick as you can. Also, paint the end with any kind of scrap latex or oil based paint, so when you dry the lumber, it won't check on the ends as bad.....I do all my "high value" lumber that way. Red cedar, you can let lay for YEARS, and it saws up just as good as the day you dropped the tree. One of the main reasons I bought my mill was sorta the same as you....we have about 90ac of timber, and I never ever ever want to have it commercially logged.....the mess for one thing, and the other, you basically GIVE your timber away. When I saw a board now for use here ( or on some project ), I get the same value as if I went to town and bought that board....see that pile of floor joists above ? Well that's 2 days sawing....there's 20 layers, 6 to a layer ( I make all my stacks 48"....that what I cut my sticks )....that's 120 joists that would cost 15 bucks each with tax.....that's 1800 bucks for 2 days work....I couldn't sell them for that.....but my way of looking at it is if I use them in lieu of buying them, it's STILL income....heck, it's BETTER than income, because I would have to go EARN 2500 bucks to pay the damn income taxes to come out with 1800 bucks to go buy the lumber !! CUT OUT THE TAXMAN !! ANd yet if I sold that timber, probably been lucky to get 100-200 bucks for the logs.....screw that...... And then if you turn hardwood lumber into mouldings, cabinets, etc, let me tell ya....you are talking the PRIME RIB of timber, baby !! Go buy a pc of 1x12x 8' red oak some time at Home Depot.....7 bucks a FOOT......56 bucks for ONE BOARD that cost me a nickel a foot to produce and another nickel to dry ( I'll tell you about my air conditioner dry kiln if you ask real nice.....ahahahahaaa )...80 cents.....I got 80 CENTS in a board that sells for 56 bucks at Home Depot.....I laugh every time I walk down that aisle and see those "po folks" buying that stuff....... If you've got more questions, fire away, and I'll check back. Also, Armed Peasant has a band mill ( different brand ), and he can weigh in as well.

mick silver | 11-20-2009 03:01 PM
Re: Milling timber tn andy how do you dry the lumber . dam i need someone with all your tools living next to my place

Tn...Andy | 11-20-2009 03:19 PM
Re: Milling timber Mick, First step is air dry.....that what the sticks are about....set up a GOOD level, stout "foundation" to handle couple tons of wood, then stack with DRY 1x2x48" sticks between each layer, and cover with tin ( I now have a drying shed 14x64 that I use ) and weight the tin down with blocks or whatever. Leave it 6 months to a year, depending on species. Most pines will dry from dead green to under 20% moisture content in 6 months or so....rule of thumb is 6 months per inch of thickness, but pine dries a little faster. Once you get below 20% MC, wood won't rot ( there is no such thing as "dry rot"....it's WET rot.....it just dries out later and LOOKS like dry rot ).....and that is all you need for construction grade lumber for framing. IF you aren't going to do something like inside finish ( like a barn ), you can use it dead green off the saw.....done plenty of them that way.......but if you do a house like that, you'll pop all kinds of things like sheetrock. Trim, furniture, and cabinets lumber, you need to take on down to 6-8% range.....then build your whatever and SEAL it, or it can absorb water right out of the air like a sponge and go back to 15-20% MC ( called the 'equalibrium' point of wood ). It's almost impossible to get wood down to that MC without a kiln. Mine is a room I built in a corner of my shop, 8x14 x 7' high, insulated it well, coated the inside of the OSB paneling with mobile home roof coating for a vapor barrier, and I use an air conditioner sitting on a shelf in the room to dry from 20% on down to 6%. The scrap heat off the AC raises the room temp, which allows the moisture in the wood to release to the air, which then hits the cold coil on the AC and runs off as condensate. Takes about 3 weeks of running to get 1000bd/ft down to 6%. No, I never run dead green.....I'm cheap for one thing, and let nature do the bulk of the work on sticks ( plus, you get a better quality lumber by doing that ) and two, I'd be worried about mold with dead green in my kiln. Yes.....the AC just sits completely INSIDE the room on a shelf.........and YES, it gets up to 130 degrees because, NO, the cooling side of the AC doesn't come anywhere NEAR what the waste side does....I do use a small electric heater to get the room up to 75-80 or so to begin, or the AC won't kick in and run....but after that, it's off to the races.....the AC supplies all the heat you'd ever want off the back side.....in fact, unless you put your hand right ON the front coil, you won't even think the thing is working.

eat_beef | 11-20-2009 11:19 PM
Re: Milling timber Andy, Have you ever treated any of your wood? Being within spitting distance of salt water makes it a necessity for most of my aps. I barely remember Papa's creosote tank from when I was a boy, but not well enough to set one up myself...

Armed.peasant | 11-21-2009 08:51 PM
Re: Milling timber One thing to be aware of, if hard wood logs lay around too long they can get too hard to cut with the band mill. I will get some pictures of my mill, but I have had it about 3 or 4 years and it has paid for itself 3 or 4 times over already. I cut mostly popular since that is the most common tree on my place. I paid around $6,000.00 for it. It will cut up to a 24 to 26 inch log and I can cut as long as 18 feet, but I can keep adding 6 foot sections of track and cut as long as I want. I got mine here http://www.mistersawmill.com/

Big Country | 11-21-2009 11:49 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 2035910) ....I couldn't sell them for that.....
What do you think you could sell them for? I'm assuming much more then the price of the raw log. (though you do know that the "offer" the timber companies give you for the log is just like a wood cash4gold...except for the most part you can get near market price for them if you refuse the offer and tell them the price you want...market price...know what you're dealing with!..I'm sure you know that though, just saying for everyone else!) I'm sure it is still worth more milled though. What do you think you could sell it for (craigslist...newspaper...????) My father was a forester for 30 years and taught me a little something about timber companies. NEVER EVER EVER EVER accept their first offer until you know what you're dealing with! If you're getting lumber cut on your property hire a consultant forester (even if he charges you $1000) to help you know what you're dealing with and get a fair price from the timber company. Usually they will still give you fair market price for the lumber without much fuss, they just offer WAY under to get the gullible! We had a family friend that nearly signed the contract to have their land cut for $13,000...they saw a big ## and got $$ in their eyes. My dad went over their property and they ended up getting just over $26,000 for their timber after they rejected the offer and went in KNOWING what their timber was worth.

Tn...Andy | 11-22-2009 06:45 AM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Country (Post 2038293) What do you think you could sell them for? I'm assuming much more then the price of the raw log.
Probably white pine green lumber I could sell for about 350/400m.....35-40cents/bdft. But a small mill like mine, that means I have a try to compete with the big mills that DO sell for that...... IMHO, the BEST way for a small mill ( I'm talking one/two man band mills ) is VALUE ADDING.....take the raw lumber and turn it into a product. Why sell lumber for 40 cents/ft when you can turn it into a product ( like a rental house, or furniture, or cabinets, or barn for yourself ) that is worth FAR more ? One of the true aspects of WEALTH is "un-realised gain".....to increase your net worth WITHOUT being skinned by taxes along the way. Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Country (Post 2038293) My father was a forester for 30 years and taught me a little something about timber companies. NEVER EVER EVER EVER accept their first offer until you know what you're dealing with! If you're getting lumber cut on your property hire a consultant forester (even if he charges you $1000) to help you know what you're dealing with and get a fair price from the timber company. Usually they will still give you fair market price for the lumber without much fuss, they just offer WAY under to get the gullible! We had a family friend that nearly signed the contract to have their land cut for $13,000...they saw a big ## and got $$ in their eyes. My dad went over their property and they ended up getting just over $26,000 for their timber after they rejected the offer and went in KNOWING what their timber was worth.
A common story in selling timber. Old guy I bought my place from called me one day and said "I've got 15ac down here near me and want to sell the timber....guy offered me 17,000 for it.....what do you think ? "......I said I had no idea if that was fair, but the thing for him to do was get several more quotes.....and if they all came in around that price, that was probably market price for the timber, then he could decide from there. SO, he calls me back about a month later, and says "You know what that timber sold for ?.........85,000 !! " I said, "well, guess you glad you shopped around, huh ? "....ahahhaaaaa I stopped down there later, after the cut, and there were red oak stumps 3-4 across all over the property....stuff was HUGE....and the first guy was a robber.

Tn...Andy | 11-22-2009 06:48 AM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 2036817) Andy, Have you ever treated any of your wood? Being within spitting distance of salt water makes it a necessity for most of my aps. I barely remember Papa's creosote tank from when I was a boy, but not well enough to set one up myself...
I kinda think creosote has been banned.....I'd doubt you could even buy it any more.... There is a place not too far from here that I understand does "custom" pressure treating, though I've never done it.....but a fellow sawyer told me about taking some there and having it done. But no, I've never done any treating.....it's about the only lumber I do buy.

Brio | 11-22-2009 06:59 AM
Re: Milling timber Conversion (weight divided by volume) makes a difference too, I sold about three truckloads of fir, one mill offered me $90/M3 with a conversion of 800, another offered me $85 with a conversion of 650. So with roughly 105,000kg of wood Mill 1 would have paid $11800, Mill 2 paid $13730. So a higher dollar offer doesn't always mean the better price.

hoarder | 11-22-2009 09:13 AM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 2038550) I kinda think creosote has been banned.....I'd doubt you could even buy it any more.... There is a place not too far from here that I understand does "custom" pressure treating, though I've never done it.....but a fellow sawyer told me about taking some there and having it done. But no, I've never done any treating.....it's about the only lumber I do buy.
It seems that everything that preserves wood is banned. You can't buy Penta wood preservative any more either. Not only that but the pressure treated wood you buy today is not anywhere as good as it used to be, because they passed some law a few years ago. I need to build a couple pole barns and I intend to use the new treated poles or salvage telephone poles if I can find any. Someone told me that I should wrap bare copper wires around the buried part and also wrap Visqueen (clear plastic) around them below ground but not the bottom.

eat_beef | 11-22-2009 09:34 AM
Re: Milling timber You can still buy Creosote and CCA (the old "banned" pressure treated) timber, at least in Texas. Leo Hicks (in Palestine I think) still makes both, and American Pole and Timber in Houston sells it, along with Bayou City Lumber. The problem is: it's expensive and no one wants to deal with it. Hoarder, you can get the old treated CCA, you just have to tell them it's for water contact and no kids will be playing on it. They outlawed the CCA (A stands for arsenic) because they were worried about kidddies getting arsenic exposure from splinters in decks/playgrounds and such. You can also get (here anyway, maybe not in Montana or TN), green colored stuff for salt water exposure. It's VERY good, I'm not sure what's in it, but it's better than CCA, maybe better than a light creosote, but it's expensive as heck. That's what they're making all the new bulkheads out of these days.

hoarder | 11-22-2009 09:47 AM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by eat_beef (Post 2038659) You can still buy Creosote and CCA (the old "banned" pressure treated) timber, at least in Texas. Leo Hicks (in Palestine I think) still makes both, and American Pole and Timber in Houston sells it, along with Bayou City Lumber. The problem is: it's expensive and no one wants to deal with it. Hoarder, you can get the old treated CCA, you just have to tell them it's for water contact and no kids will be playing on it. They outlawed the CCA (A stands for arsenic) because they were worried about kidddies getting arsenic exposure from splinters in decks/playgrounds and such. You can also get (here anyway, maybe not in Montana or TN), green colored stuff for salt water exposure. It's VERY good, I'm not sure what's in it, but it's better than CCA, maybe better than a light creosote, but it's expensive as heck. That's what they're making all the new bulkheads out of these days.
Thanks, Ill ask around in this area. Salt is a preservative. Wooden boats left in salt water year round last a long time. Transport these same boats to inland lakes and they deteriorate quickly. I have well drained soils and low rain fall so ordinary CCA is probably OK. I just like to do things right.

FedUp | 11-22-2009 10:21 AM
Re: Milling timber I have not ever milled wood, but I do run through quite a bit. The majority of wood I use is reclaimed, I routinely get large loads of hardwood that have been milled and never used, left in barns. Find lots on craigslist. For the highest dollar selling I might suggest cutting hardwoods, setting up a solar kiln, and then selling them in sets. If you can keep sets (flitches) together where woodworkers can bookmatch and keep consistent color, you can charge more for a product. As for sawing felled logs, If you can catch one starting to spalt and find good figure, that becomes a high dollar log. I have paid upto $16 a bdf for dried spalted maple. Good Luck

Onboard | 11-23-2009 09:53 AM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Armed.peasant (Post 2038095) One thing to be aware of, if hard wood logs lay around too long they can get too hard to cut with the band mill. I will get some pictures of my mill, but I have had it about 3 or 4 years and it has paid for itself 3 or 4 times over already. I cut mostly popular since that is the most common tree on my place. I paid around $6,000.00 for it. It will cut up to a 24 to 26 inch log and I can cut as long as 18 feet, but I can keep adding 6 foot sections of track and cut as long as I want. I got mine here http://www.mistersawmill.com/
Thanks Amed.peasant, those are made near the ole woodlot. I'll be looking at those.

Onboard | 11-23-2009 10:06 AM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by FedUp (Post 2038703) I have not ever milled wood, but I do run through quite a bit. The majority of wood I use is reclaimed, I routinely get large loads of hardwood that have been milled and never used, left in barns. Find lots on craigslist. For the highest dollar selling I might suggest cutting hardwoods, setting up a solar kiln, and then selling them in sets. If you can keep sets (flitches) together where woodworkers can bookmatch and keep consistent color, you can charge more for a product. As for sawing felled logs, If you can catch one starting to spalt and find good figure, that becomes a high dollar log. I have paid upto $16 a bdf for dried spalted maple. Good Luck
Thanks, I've been reading up on building a solar kiln. Just scratching the surface actually. I like TN Andy's kiln model too. Also good to know about flitches and spalt.

Onboard | 11-24-2009 10:50 AM
Re: Milling timber Andy, thanks for the detailed response. It got me to researching even more. It's good to know that I'm not exactly running out of time. My land is about 3 1/2 hrs from my home so this will be a weekend deal most of the time. The very first thing I need to do is clear out the very old logging/farm roads as you can't drive them yet and there are some I couldn't drive before the ice storm. Then I'll choose a few sites for setting up the saw (that I don't have yet) and making log piles. I've been thinking on this for several months and I know this is gonna be real work. I think I'll be skidding with an ATV and a log arch http://www.mistersawmill.com/toppage1.htm I found on that link Armed peasant posted. I don't have any support equipment just my old 4x4 Dodge. Any thoughts? There are several places up on the ridge that flatten out real nice where I can stack and sticker lumber for air drying. I'll cut my sticks from the same type wood I'll be stacking to avoid stain. I suppose I should cut my 1"x1" sticks and let them dry a few days prior to milling and stacking. This brings me to another question though it is further in the future. How long can air dryed lumber sit in the yard (or on a beautiful ridge in the woods) before you run it through a kiln ? My brother got an 8pt on this ridge last weekend. Think I'll cut his tree stand down. :wink: I'll be working on putting a kiln together here at the house when I'm not in the woods. Again, this is further out but I need to get the plan together. One more thing, this weekend I realized I got plenty of hickory also. This stuff is tough, should I try to work this or would I better off selling it for firewood? I've got more questions but I'll save them for later as I have plenty to work on now. Thanks again. To everyone.

Onboard | 11-24-2009 10:56 AM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by MattC (Post 2035419) I have a chainsaw powered saw mill. A husqvarna 394 xp and the alaskan 30 inch mill. Its hard work but has yeilded me thousands of board feet of "free" lumber. I make furniture and its cool to have 2-inch thick tops if you choose. Its also great to get lumber from trees you have attachement to, like walnut planted by my great grandfather. You will lose a ton to drying cracks. Get a book called "Understanding wood" by professor Bruce Hoaday.
MattC, I ordered the book. The reviews said that it's not for dummies. Hope bubba can cypher. Thanks :bear_thumb:

BellevueBully | 11-24-2009 11:13 AM
Re: Milling timber 4 Attachment(s) No problem there with the log hauler. I built one several years ago and have taken out at least 50 bruisers with an old 400 honda atv. Logs stay nice and clean and it is easy to get where they are laying. In the one pic you can see I used a trailering pup for the real long stuff to prevent what you see in the other pic with the back tires off the ground.

Onboard | 11-24-2009 12:00 PM
Re: Milling timber BellvueBully, I'm sold. Many thanks for the pics. Those are some bruisers, congrats. :beer: Are you running a sawmill?

jogslvr | 11-24-2009 12:07 PM
Re: Milling timber You best have a boatload of saw blades if you're going to try to saw dry oak on a portable bandsaw mill.

Onboard | 11-24-2009 12:15 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by jogslvr (Post 2042461) You best have a boatload of saw blades if you're going to try to saw dry oak on a portable bandsaw mill.
How many cutting hrs do you reckon a fella can get per blade, 4 maybe? I plan on starting with 20, 2 boxes of 10. Blades are $20 a pop give or take a few $. Sound about right? Thanks.

BeeYourself | 11-24-2009 12:16 PM
Re: Milling timber Im jealous. We don't even have trees here. Just cactus.

Onboard | 11-24-2009 12:18 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeYourself (Post 2042472) Im jealous. We don't even have trees here. Just cactus.
I betcha don't have ice storms either :bear_thumb:

BellevueBully | 11-24-2009 01:31 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Onboard (Post 2042469) How many cutting hrs do you reckon a fella can get per blade, 4 maybe? I plan on starting with 20, 2 boxes of 10. Blades are $20 a pop give or take a few $. Sound about right? Thanks.
About 500 board feet of white pine and then a change is req'd. Have no experience with oak, only w/p and cedar.

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BellevueBully | 11-24-2009 01:38 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Onboard (Post 2042455) BellvueBully, I'm sold. Many thanks for the pics. Those are some bruisers, congrats. :beer: Are you running a sawmill?
No, had one brought in and helped the operator. These were from 2 years ago. He charged $250 /1000 brd ft. <-----yes, $250 (cheap). I currently have 20 trees down and ready to mill next spring that will be going into 3, 4, and 5 inch v-groove to line my camp. Again, very reasonable at 30 cents a brd ft, compared to about $1 retail. If you have any further q's on anything to do with the process of moving the trees and tips to make it easier, please ask and I'll be glad to share my experiences.:beer:

Armed.peasant | 11-24-2009 02:45 PM
Re: Milling timber If you do not have a way to lift the logs on your mill you can use ramps, Mister Sawmill makes a nice set that slides into recievers on the mill frame. You can use a cant hook/peavey to roll them up. I have a wood handle one and this one http://store.logrite.com/ch048.html the logrite one is my favorite. Be careful skidding logs with an ATV, you could get pushed around by the log!

Armed.peasant | 11-24-2009 02:48 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by BellevueBully (Post 2042581) No, had one brought in and helped the operator. These were from 2 years ago. He charged $250 /brd ft. <-----yes, $250 (cheap). I currently have 20 trees down and ready to mill next spring that will be going into 3, 4, and 5 inch v-groove to line my camp. Again, very reasonable at 30 cents a brd ft, compared to about $1 retail. If you have any further q's on anything to do with the process of moving the trees and tips to make it easier, please ask and I'll be glad to share my experiences.:beer:
$250.00 a board foot?

BellevueBully | 11-24-2009 03:07 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Armed.peasant (Post 2042680) $250.00 a board foot?
Good Q. 250 a thou is what I was meaning. Thanks for the good eye.

jogslvr | 11-24-2009 03:10 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Onboard (Post 2042469) How many cutting hrs do you reckon a fella can get per blade, 4 maybe? I plan on starting with 20, 2 boxes of 10. Blades are $20 a pop give or take a few $. Sound about right? Thanks.
IMHO, you will go broke buying blades to cut dry oak. You'd come out ahead hauling them to a radial mill if one is close by. Even sawing green oak on a woodmiser is about 50-75% slower than sawing soft woods.

BellevueBully | 11-24-2009 03:39 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by jogslvr (Post 2042722) IMHO, you will go broke buying blades to cut dry oak. You'd come out ahead hauling them to a radial mill if one is close by. Even sawing green oak on a woodmiser is about 50-75% slower than sawing soft woods.
As I mentioned above, 3 changes for 1500 bd ft of cedar. Double that for oak likely. 6 changes in one day would definitely 'cut' :clap2:into your productivity.

Onboard | 11-24-2009 04:06 PM
Re: Milling timber BellevueBully: Thanks for the offer. I've got a few steep places, do you tend to get pushed around as Armed.peasant suggests could happen? How do you avoid this? Armed.peasant : There are a few places that would probably push me around on an ATV. Probably wise to pull up the ridge on the more gentle sloped side and winch it down the slopes where it's steep, wrapping the cable around another tree so as not to pull straight towards me and mill in the little valley area. Thanks for the heads up. I'll definitely need the load ramps and cant hook. I had the wife talked into a Timberking 1600 loaded with the hydraulics as I'm not a spring chicken anymore (not ancient though haha). I just couldn't justify the cost so it's manual for now. jogslvr : You've given me something to think about, I appreciate it. I had a 26" red oak that had fallen by the creek a while back. After two years I decided to cut it up for firewood. It didn't put out any leaves so I thought it would be dry, it was too wet to burn that winter. The roots were still covered with dirt and a small portion of the roots were still in the ground. A lot of the trees are still upright firmly planted they are just snapped in two, I would think they would still have plenty of moisture but you've got wondering. What I'll do is cut into one that's fallen over and drop one that is still standing but too damaged to leaf out. Would the eye test work or should I get some kind of moisture meter? Thanks for your input.

BellevueBully | 11-24-2009 04:16 PM
Re: Milling timber If it is very steep, and hauling 16's it may be a problem. Dry 8's (cedar anyhow) should not tax the braking ability, in my experience anyhow. If in doubt, use the hauler to elevate the log, and winch it independantly from the top down, going backwards. Cut a good slash down the hill and clean it up a bit, and you should be in business.You may have to rig a 3rd wheel for the front to make like a tricyle config. Probably doesn't even have to be too beefy, as most of the weight should be on the yolk.

BellevueBully | 11-24-2009 04:35 PM
Re: Milling timber 3 Attachment(s) Emergency sawmill........only for desparate measures, lol. This was a 7 x 8 beam that got a bad twist while drying (should have had more wieght on it). I needed it that day for a header to pick up ceiling joists. I determined a good core at one end, and projected the plane to the other end the best I could and skinned it down with a field-filed down chain (5 deg). Used a hand planer for the finish touch. Came out to the point where it would only rock about 1/16 of an inch once finished.:ARMS1: And, as you can see, implements can be added on to the hauler for different jobs. This one was a deck for hauling sheeting/boats, and doubled as a good work surface.

Onboard | 11-24-2009 04:45 PM
Re: Milling timber Bellevue, I am impressed :36_1_32v: and thanks for the input.

Zilver | 11-24-2009 10:36 PM
Re: Milling timber great thread:beer: you guys are like real lumberjacks:biggrin:? <font face="Verdana" size="1" color="#999999"><br/><a style="font: Verdana" href="http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=53699 39">MontyPython Lumberjack</a><br/><object width="425px" height="360px" ><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"/><param name="wmode" value="transparent"/><param name="movie" value="http://mediaservices.myspace.com/services/media/embed.aspx/m=5369939,t=1,mt=video"/><embed src="http://mediaservices.myspace.com/services/media/embed.aspx/m=5369939,t=1,mt=video" width="425" height="360" allowFullScreen="true" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"></embed></object><br/><a style="font: Verdana" href="http://www.myspace.com/3shot4shot"> IN LOVE WITH MY EMPIRESS Mrs.Marie BrandO </a> | <a style="font: Verdana" href="http://vids.myspace.com">MySpace Video</a></font>

Onboard | 11-25-2009 11:09 AM
Re: Milling timber Definitely a funny skit. :rofl: Kinda knocked the manly right outta me. You know Zilver, I may have more gear than I originally thought. Gotta clean the wife's shoes when I get back from the woods though :ok:

Onboard | 03-04-2010 11:12 AM
Re: Milling timber Should have updated before now. I want to say thanks to everyone who posted and gave advice, it's appreciated and I'll be asking for more I'm sure. I settled on a mill. It's all manual, powered by a 21hp Vanguard, 4 post head, 6 jackstands (has 2 near the center),36"diameter and 17' length cutting capability and towing pkg. Got ramps and a manual winch. 10 new blades. 8k total. I have not been able to get it to the hills yet. This global warming has played havoc with my plans. Thankfully Spring is right around the corner. Looks like April before I take the mill for a ride as I have chainsaw work to do, gotta clear the old logging roads. I still have to get a the log arch for the ATV. I'll be getting that here http://www.mistersawmill.com/toppage1.htm Thanks to Armedpeasant for that link. Glad you're doing better AP. I'll try to get pics soon. Need the wife to train me on how to post 'em, she's the brains of this bunch haha. Anyway got the mill here. http://www.webspawner.com/users/dannystevens/ Mr. Stevens is professional and was a pleasure to do business with. Plus he's close to the woodlot and I pass his place of business coming and going. Again, thanks ya'll :beer:

Armed.peasant | 03-04-2010 05:44 PM
Re: Milling timber Good to hear you got a sawmill. You will love it and when you go to the lumber store/Lowes/Home depot and see the money you save you will wonder why you did not buy one 10 years ago. I have a little pile of logs I can not wait to start on when I am up to speed and the snow melts. Post pictures when you can.

BellevueBully | 03-04-2010 06:56 PM
Re: Milling timber 2 Attachment(s) Make sure you have a tag-a-long for the big stuff too.

Tn...Andy | 03-04-2010 09:15 PM
Re: Milling timber Few more photos from around my place and mill.... Tractor skidding winch......real handy on a small 4wh drive tractor. http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...0_p126272.jpeg Mill shed: http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...0_p126275.jpeg Pile of logs that came off 1/2 acre I was clearing for fruit trees: http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...0_p126274.jpeg Logging out some white pine....and doing what I do best....resting....ahahahaaaaaaaa http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...0_p126273.jpeg

skid | 03-04-2010 11:29 PM
Re: Milling timber Wow! I'm impressed with all you guys! Being a land owner is hard work, and clearing land, even with a tractor is very tough. It takes a large amount of grit and fortitude to do work like that, and many people aren't cut out for it. I have cut down some beautiful knot free trees clearing my land, and have been forced to cut them into firewood due to lack of a mill. Unfortunately being a land owner is very expensive, especially with all the tools and equipment required to do a job properly, and a good mill looks fairly expensive. After seeing the work done by you folks, however, is motivating me to bring the mill up higher on the priority list.

____hoot____ | 03-05-2010 12:25 AM
Re: Milling timber Thanks Guys, for a great thread

MNeagle | 03-05-2010 11:19 AM
Re: Milling timber Wow, finally a picture of our infamous TNAndy! Great to have a pic. Thanks!

Onboard | 03-07-2010 01:57 PM
Re: Milling timber 3 Attachment(s) Hey all, finally got the pics of the mill. Looks similar to the Mr. Sawmill. Again thanks to everyone. By the way, that pic of Tn Andy was probably the first time he was actually caught resting. Someone knew a Kodak moment when they saw one. Andy are you related to Stone Wall Jackson :wavey: J/K Attachment 88699 Attachment 88700 Attachment 88701

Tn...Andy | 03-07-2010 02:51 PM
Re: Milling timber Nice looking mill there, Onboard....and what is MORE nice is all that relatively flat ground, which is an oddity around my area. :biggrin: No, I'm not related to General Jackson that I know of....which would truly be an honor, but I did have relatives on my father's side from South Carolina that fought in the War of Northern Aggression.

BellevueBully | 03-07-2010 08:44 PM
Re: Milling timber Fantastic looking mill Onboard. Now go get it dirty!! Play safe.

Onboard | 03-08-2010 12:39 PM
Re: Milling timber Thanks Andy. These pics were taken where I actually have a home, in central Arkansas. The ground IS purty flat here.Now the woodlot ( where I hope to have a home someday ) is in the northern part of the state. Quite hilly and rocky up there,a stone's throw from the southern Mo. border. About a 3 1/2 hour drive away from where I live now. BellevueBully, thank you also. I hope to get her dirty come April for sure! Of course I can always practice on a few trees right here. I've got a low place in the back of the property here I plan to put a pond someday and it needs clearing out. So...

Tn...Andy | 03-08-2010 06:18 PM
Re: Milling timber Sawing here today....got a bunch of white pine logged out late last fall, and now sawing them....all were still frozen, but they actually sawed pretty good. Got 83 2x6x16, ( I was going mostly for rafter material ), 24 2x4x16 and a few assorted 1x.......around 1600 bdft. http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...3_p126300.jpeg http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...3_p126301.jpeg

Golddust | 03-08-2010 06:28 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 2217008) Sawing here today....got a bunch of white pine logged out late last fall, and now sawing them....all were still frozen, but they actually sawed pretty good. Got 83 2x6x16, ( I was going mostly for rafter material ), 24 2x4x16 and a few assorted 1x.......around 1600 bdft. http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...3_p126300.jpeg http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...3_p126301.jpeg
Dam man...! Can we start calling you a timber baron?????? :ok: :beer: :biggrin: Edit: Back story... Have a older friend that has a place not far from here and the property has been in the family for over 120 years Used to be much larger , but now maybe a tad over 100 acres. He has some places he has sold timber and that land has been replanted with new growth, still has some stands that have not been touched in over 100 years. So I call him a timber baron.. He owns the mineral rights! In the last 10 or so years, sweet gas and a killer condensate (can run a car off of it) has been found on his property, He has 7-10 wells now. So I call him a oil baron.. He has the best muscadine grape patch , within 100 miles .(Think the best jelly and preserves) So I call him a farmer.... Been trying to get him to buy a cow, so I can call him. A rancher!!! Very true story... Charles

Tn...Andy | 03-08-2010 08:38 PM
Re: Milling timber I'd rather be a robber baron with a castle on the Rhine. :biggrin: Seriously....a small mill is a REAL money maker. Take those 2x6x16....they run about 9 bucks with sales tax.....and if you figure the avoided cost of earning income to buy them, you'd add at LEAST another 25%.....so it takes 12 bucks earned to pay the taxes to net 9 to buy a board. 83pcs x 12 bucks = 996 FRNs ( actually closer to 1200 when you figure in the other lumber ) I'd hate to tell you how many times a small mill will pay for itself around a place......the tool that keeps on giving......

BellevueBully | 03-08-2010 08:51 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 2217008) Sawing here today....got a bunch of white pine logged out late last fall, and now sawing them....all were still frozen, but they actually sawed pretty good. Got 83 2x6x16, ( I was going mostly for rafter material ), 24 2x4x16 and a few assorted 1x.......around 1600 bdft. http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...3_p126300.jpeg http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...3_p126301.jpeg
1600 bdft.....thats a great days work. Do you work with a helper Andy? Btw.....gotta love having white pine rafters.....that's class (to a redneck like me anyway.) :beer:

maddyn99 | 03-08-2010 09:46 PM
Re: Milling timber Man that is just awesome. I continue to be amazed at what people accomplish on this board. Keep up the good work and the pictures. I saw this thread last night and started looking at timber mills and had to add yet ANOTHER thing that I think i need :p

Freemarket11 | 03-08-2010 09:56 PM
Re: Milling timber Great thread here, please continue to post pics and information. ... Thanks

<SLV> | 03-08-2010 10:44 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 2215144) Nice looking mill there, Onboard....and what is MORE nice is all that relatively flat ground, which is an oddity around my area. :biggrin: No, I'm not related to General Jackson that I know of....which would truly be an honor, but I did have relatives on my father's side from South Carolina that fought in the War of Federal Aggression.
Fixed it for ya' :ok:

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Meliorist | 03-09-2010 12:34 AM
Re: Milling timber A somewhat related question for you guys. If you were wanting to build a house where there is currently a tangled/crowded mess of (5in diameter) poplars, what would you do? Give up? Rent some heavy machinery that can get underneath them (wikipedia seems to think they have pretty extensive root systems)? Hire a few dozen mexicans to dig them up after clear cut? And what would you do with them afterwards? Chip? Sell to a paper mill?

Onboard | 03-09-2010 11:26 AM
Re: Milling timber Woohoo TnAndy, that's a good days work. Sure do appreciate you taking time to post those pics. Motivational to say the least :adore:

Onboard | 03-09-2010 11:34 AM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Meliorist (Post 2217557) A somewhat related question for you guys. If you were wanting to build a house where there is currently a tangled/crowded mess of (5in diameter) poplars, what would you do? Give up? Rent some heavy machinery that can get underneath them (wikipedia seems to think they have pretty extensive root systems)? Hire a few dozen mexicans to dig them up after clear cut? And what would you do with them afterwards? Chip? Sell to a paper mill?
Someone other than myself will have more knowledge about this I'm sure. TnAndy and BellvueBully come to mind and there's a jillion other fine folk on this site that could steer you right. I would definitely have the stumps removed if I were building there. Dozer work maybe. I've read that poplar as firewood is not as good as oak but better than pine. I would think 5"dia would be too small for sawlogs. Good luck.

hoarder | 03-09-2010 01:21 PM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by Meliorist (Post 2217557) A somewhat related question for you guys. If you were wanting to build a house where there is currently a tangled/crowded mess of (5in diameter) poplars, what would you do? Give up? Rent some heavy machinery that can get underneath them (wikipedia seems to think they have pretty extensive root systems)? Hire a few dozen mexicans to dig them up after clear cut? And what would you do with them afterwards? Chip? Sell to a paper mill?
When clearing trees, do not cut them down and proceed to remove the stumps, push the trees down with machinery and the weight of the tree will help you pull the roots out. Just push them over and push them out of the way.

Tn...Andy | 03-09-2010 03:19 PM
Re: Milling timber Agree with Hoarder....push them out roots and all. As to the wood, most likely you'll pile it and burn it....poplar only saws if it's fairly large....anything under 10-12" ( and even above this ) bows like a rocking chair rocker even as you saw it.....it's a fairly sorry wood until it reaches 18" or better. As for firewood, it's also fairly sorry....just barely above white pine in my book....no density=no good for firewood. And, at 5", that's just about even too small for paper chips....most paper requires debarking, and it's hard to debark something that small. Local paper company here won't take stuff under 6" on the tip.

skid | 03-11-2010 12:32 AM
Re: Milling timber Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 2218208) When clearing trees, do not cut them down and proceed to remove the stumps, push the trees down with machinery and the weight of the tree will help you pull the roots out. Just push them over and push them out of the way.
Yup, I do that all the time when I am clearing trees. Even fairly big trees go over fairly easily with a push from the tractor bucket up high although some deep rooted ones take more effort. Just watch out for dead limbs on poplars and Birch. I've had a couple smaller ones fall on the canopy of my tractor. I now gear down to the lowest gear and creep up to the tree and try not to shake it. once pushing I also lift and tilt the buck once I make contact. That helps to rip them out of the earth. Also, If I am bucking firewood, I push them over until the top tip of the tree just about touches the ground. Then i delimb and buck at waist to chest height from tip to stump. Very fast and easy and keeps the chainsaw out of the dirt!

Tn...Andy | 03-17-2010 08:18 PM
Re: Milling timber Finished up the white pine today.....had to knock off for a couple days waiting on a drum switch for my mill...controls the forward/reverse motion of the saw head....finally wore the one out that was on it after almost 20years, and ordered one from Woodmizer....put it on yesterday, and it runs like a top again. Sawed right at 3,000 bd ft of logs ( by Doyle scale ) and got 5500bdft of lumber out of it.....that's right....a small bandmill will regularly oversaw scale on 10-18" logs by 70-80%. 160 2x6x16 60 2x4x16 8 2x12x16 60 2x10x12 36 2x8x12 Plus assorted shorter 2x4,2x6 and 1x. Most of it will go to frame the 1st floor, loft and roof of a 20x30 cabin I sawed the 6x8 logs for several years ago. The excess 2x6's will go for a new barn for round bales I need. Need to round up about 1200bdft of 1x for subflooring, and roof decking, and I have enough stuff to put the cabin under roof.

Armed.peasant | 03-18-2010 06:19 PM
Re: Milling timber Almost double the Doyle scale! Those narrow/skinny blades yield some good lumber. I hope to saw some soon, I will try to post some pictures of my little mill.

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