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Squirrel Bait | 02-01-2008 01:40 PM
Non-Hybred Seeds Does anyone have a source for non-hybred seeds. Sealed in #10 cans would be great. SB

eyeofliberty | 02-01-2008 01:56 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds Some sources: http://www.heirloomseeds.com/ http://www.arkinstitute.com/ http://rareseeds.com/ http://www.territorialseed.com/ Territorial also has hybrid seeds.

Squirrel Bait | 02-01-2008 02:42 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds Thank you, sir!! SB

Unclad Lad | 02-02-2008 04:39 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds It won't hurt you to buy a few hybrids as well. While it is true that they won't breed true from the saved seeds, hybrids often have desirable characteristics, like a shorter growing season, resistance to disease, or some such. If you are a beginning gardener, and your eating depends upon your garden growing, then you don't want to put all your seeds in one basket.

Silverstone | 02-02-2008 04:45 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel Bait (Post 947686) Does anyone have a source for non-hybred seeds. Sealed in #10 cans would be great. SB
Heirloomseeds.com has a big selection, lots of good free info. too!

jaima | 02-03-2008 03:49 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds SB, The Frugal Squirrel has them. Im not sure how their prices compare. http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/store...age/seeds.html They also have a hat you might like :) http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/store/specials.html

Squirrel Bait | 02-03-2008 04:22 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds Jaima, Thanks, that was the one I was looking for. I knew I had seen the cans somewhere, just couldn't find 'em. SB

RealJack | 02-03-2008 07:29 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds Jaima, nice touch with the acorn hat... funny.

TechGuy | 02-03-2008 07:32 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_...E_Garden+Seeds For seeds on the cheap...

Alpine5654 | 02-03-2008 09:35 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds I'm thinking of trying these http://www.growfood.com/vegetable_seeds/

Squirrel Bait | 02-04-2008 11:03 AM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds Ya know, as I read over these lists many of the seeds I have been planting over the years have been non-hybred. For example: SWEET CORN. Golden Bantam. 5 oz. SPINACH. Bloomsdale Long Standing. 10 g. RADISH. Champion. 10 g. PEA. Little Marvel. 10 oz. BEET. Detroit Dark Red. 8 g. CARROT. Scarlet Nantes. 6 g. POLE BEAN. Blue Lake. 5 oz. Kentucky Wonder Bean Danvers 126 Carrot Roma VF Paste Tomato Purple Top Globe Turnip SB

Squirrel Bait | 02-04-2008 06:14 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijah (Post 952398) So, you are a squirrel?
Lt Dan, no I've never been on that forum. I'm not really sure how I even ended up with the name Squirrel Bait. I do remember sitting here thinking about all these people burying their PMs lke a bunch of squirrels. My dog chases the squirrels in my front yard. When they come down to get the walnuts he actually waits for them to go behind a tree then when they can't see him he charges. He caught 5 last summer doing that. Anyway I came up with the name SB. PMs or walnuts, it's all about the same. Bait. It's helped me to not take myself too seriously too. Life's too short as it is. I really like this site. A lot of good people, and a wide range of people. If you want to find out about virtually anything you could ask here and probably find out. I was on Kitco before. It's better over here. SB

Squirrel Bait | 02-04-2008 07:36 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds OOPS!! MY BAD! sb

jaima | 02-05-2008 08:35 AM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds LT Dan, I just found The Frugal Squirrel web surfing this weekend so I have no previous experience with them although they seem like they might be a little extreme. Because of my Sisters experience of involvement with a hard core, bomb shelter, weapon hoarding Survivalist group in Montana I tend to shy away from extremist. The group here seems like a good bunch and I feel comfortable here. BTW, just for the record I visited one of the Montana bomb shelters this summer. My Sisters neighbor lives in his. Its massive and can house 30 families. After 15 minutes in the shelter I decided ground zero was a better option for survival in case of a nuclear war.

jaima | 02-05-2008 08:38 AM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds SB, question about storing the seeds. I am not near that far along and have not researched. Would it be possible to save your own by putting them in paint cans with oxygen absorbers and keeping them cool?

AMforPM | 02-05-2008 08:48 AM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds Seeds are alive and breathe a little bit. I was instructed to keep moisture out in my sealing, keep them cool, but not suck out all the air for best future sprouting rates. Being plants they don't need oxygen though, but rather carbon dioxide. However, my being told that does not make it true. Which makes me want to search more. I've even forgotten what seed dealer told me that. But they raised as well as marketed seeds.

jaima | 02-05-2008 08:54 AM
Re: Non-Hybrid Seeds SB, I lost the thread where you mentioned your kids like my possum Avatar. Why not catch them a baby pet possum? My kids loved ours growing up. :) I'm curious how your kids handle the prep stuff. They are probably younger then mine but do they go with the flow or have their own opinions?

Squirrel Bait | 02-05-2008 09:19 AM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 953477) SB, question about storing the seeds. I am not near that far along and have not researched. Would it be possible to save your own by putting them in paint cans with oxygen absorbers and keeping them cool?
I have NO much experience here, so I can't say. I would assume dry and cool. As for being packed in CO2 or O2 absorbers? That would seem artificial so it might be detrimental, but I do not know. It is a question I have come up with also. A sealed can seems like a good idea for some reason.. Kind of like these seeds should be used as the last resort. If there was a major earthquake a sealed can would probably survive. What would be the odds of something like that, probably pretty slim, but... Growing up on the farm we kept seed wheat and soybeans in a bin(100's of buschels). But they were used within 1 year, two at the very most. I've heard that germination does start to go down after the 2nd year. Storing them like that allows the moisture content to remain around 8-13?? percent and the temperature to fluctuate and even freeze. Not that that was bad for the seed, but over several years it could be. I've also heard that seed can go bad and then not produce properly but I'm not sure how. (I always assumed it was a soil problem-you know to much nitrogen or something) Andy, Rev, do either of you know? Obviously the best way to keep seeds is to rotate new seed into your stores every year. But I too wonder what is the best method for longer term storage. A pure nitrogen environment might be the best way to do it. Seems the least "un-natural". Anybody out there know?????? I have had bean seeds that have done just fine that were at least 15 years old and they were stored in a crumped up bag on a shelf in the garage. So maybe were putting too much into this. SB

Squirrel Bait | 02-05-2008 10:10 AM
Re: Non-Hybrid Seeds Quote:
Originally Posted by jaima (Post 953508) SB, I lost the thread where you mentioned your kids like my possum Avatar. Why not catch them a baby pet possum? My kids loved ours growing up. :) I'm curious how your kids handle the prep stuff. They are probably younger then mine but do they go with the flow or have their own opinions?
Jaima, my dog would probably be ok with a baby possum. He's a big softy and kinda protective, except for squirrels. My cats would not be happy. My kids like the fact that prepations are there, just in case. But I scared my oldest once. He came home from school(7th grade) and asked what I knew about nuclear war and radiation. I asked why, and he said they had talked about it at Social studies at school in current events**. It's in the news a lot. So, having studied the effects in college and then the Air Force we talked about it. Now remember what the media/Hollywood teach about nukes and what the military teach are two different things. Well, suffice it to say I told him more than he needed to know and it did scare him. BUT, I'm not so sure that was a bad thing. My kids like that I can heat the house, provide light, provide food and water almost indefinitely. They also know it will be hard. But they don't want to have to do it. Well they do really like the wood stove and the fact that I keep the house extra warm. But they are typical kids and are as lazy as I allow. They aren't stupid, they know the dangers of the world are getting closer. It's in the news constantly. Their mother has totally rejected this viewpoint and I think that bothers them, but they also know they have a place to be safe. There's also something about having a knowedgable confident parent that is extremely important too. Especially when they are younger. As they have gotten older they have started to ask more in depth questions. What about this, what about that. It's important to them that I have some sort of answer and that I won't bury my head in the sand. If I don't know I will say that too. But then I show I will try to find out. I definitely won't lie to them just to make them feel better. I think this approach gives them confidence and hope when they do read or hear scary and worrisome things in the news. Fortunately we have had to use some of our preps so the kids believe in their importance and do have good healthy feelings about the preparations. Also, the kids aren't aware of or see all the preps all the time so it's not like it is "in" their face. However, many of them are in plain view, all the time. Gotta go vote!!! SB ** Several parents complained about this event with this teacher and he was not rehired at the end of the year.

TheSimpleton | 02-05-2008 01:05 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds My memory of seeds is a bit foggy, but I suspect people are much too fusy about it. Seeds are alive and need to breathe. That means no totally inert atmosphere, and need to be a hair less than 100% dry. They keep very, very long. Wheat in Tut's tomb was viable. However, some seeds are far less keeping than others, wheat of course being a very long-keeping one. Yes, the viability drops off year to year, but you can do germination tests on a paper towel to see (if you have enough to spare). To know you'd need to know what expected dropoff of germination is per that variety. I forget, but I believe lettuce tends to be a poor keeper. So in short, you can't broad-brush it. One way to think about it is like Fukuoka--permaculturist from "One-Straw Revolution." He says the plants live in the wild, drop their seeds in the wild in terrible conditions, nevertheless, they come up year after year. Otherwise, they'd long been extinct. His farming duplicates the same conditions which may seem haphazard and messy, yet give more production with less work. So start from the premise that seeds are strong, and viable, and don't really need you. Not that they're weaklings that couldn't make a season without constant human intervention. As an aside, I see the same thing with horses and children. Golly, whatever did horse do before humans were around to coddle them with horseshoes and thousand dollar vets? Whatever did children do when they were barefoot in a loincloth, rolling in the dirt? They both did quite well, thank you very much, and so both are here today. The problem with seeds isn't the viability outside of the worst-storing ones. It isn't their productivity. It's that if a crisis occurs that you will need so very many in that very first year, and so many will be wasted because of farm/gardeners who don't know what they're doing at first. These are so many reasons you must be doing something wise and sustainable all along rather than all at once when the wave hits. When it's already raining, it's too late to build the ark. Can anyone offer (again) their favorite book on seed-saving which highlights the different varieties and their storage lives and conditions? TS

jaima | 02-05-2008 06:38 PM
Re: Non-Hybred Seeds LT Dan, I agree. It is not here. People seem to be free thinkers and are very generous with their advice. I have posted on some pretty horrible forums so this is refreshing. SB, I think you have a very sensible approach to educating your children. I'm sure it is a comfort for them to know that you have a back up plan and can be self sufficient. I suppose its a fine line between scaring them and making them aware and each Parent has to gauge the situation with each child. Bless your heart for voting, Ill go but my heart is not in it .

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