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Martian_Time_slip | 09-18-2008 07:38 PM
Gasoline vs diesel generators? Which is better? What to look for in a generator?

Mill Man | 09-18-2008 07:53 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Neither is necessarily better. First important thing is your budget. How much are you willing to fork out? Second important thing is how much do you want to be able to run?

TechGuy | 09-18-2008 08:22 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? We are in the process of scoping out a propane generator. We have a 500 gallon propane tank on property already. The propane will not 'go bad' like gas or diesel will, and is generally cheaper per gallon. We are looking at a generac or onan genset.

TechGuy | 09-18-2008 08:31 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Also: We are only looking at genset units that have automatic engine tenders that fire up the unit at predetermined intervals to make sure the engine internals stay lubricated and that the engine is functional. A genset that blows up when you need it is worse than no genset at all. I know, my portable genset blew up right after the hurricane, through no negligence of my own, internal defect.

Tn...Andy | 09-18-2008 09:01 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1299251) We are in the process of scoping out a propane generator. We have a 500 gallon propane tank on property already. The propane will not 'go bad' like gas or diesel will, and is generally cheaper per gallon. We are looking at a generac or onan genset.
I agree with the fuel storage life but propane CAN be more expensive: 1. You have to spend more to store propane with a pressurized tank, regulators, etc ).....for example, a 55 gallon drum you can often get cheap or free to store gas/diesel would require 2-3 100lb propane bottles @ 125 bucks each. I have about 1500 bucks in my 500 gallon underground tank.....I could get 10 fuel drums for free, or 100 bucks if I bought them. 2. You have to consider the fuel value before you say "cheaper per gallon". BTU/gallon: Propane 94,000 Gasoline 115,000 Diesel 139,000 Takes far more propane than diesel to do the same work, all other things equal.

nub | 09-18-2008 09:06 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Diesel diesel diesel for the most run time & longevity for your dollar. I understand why techguy is interested in propane...it makes sense if you already have fuel storage in the form of propane, BUT! none of the generators come close to the extended run times and longevity achieved by diesel, you can get good longevity with propane but you give up power which equals economy.Here's how I figure run times on 12kw and up generators 3gal propane= 1hr run time 1gal diesel =3hrs run time rough figures I know but gives you an idea of the difference .And I have diesel in old motors that is a few years old an will still burn ....better to add fuel stabilizer though. Low rpm gasoline generators are nice still not as efficient as diesel but they will last a long long time . There are many considerations when choosing a generator but I use mostly diesel , I have 1000gal each of gas & diesel at my place at all times for the cars tractors & generators soooo diesel is the logical choice. I totaly understand techguy's reasoning mainly because I know he's the kind of guy that does his home work and has a feel for what's right for his application. I'll tell you of a nice midsized reasonably priced diesel generator it's a perkins diesel motor coupled to a stamford or marathon generator....they just don't break .There's other great diesels also like isuzu and mitsubishi and of course the big boys cat & john deere.....but they get damned spensive. Onan & kohler have been making great generators for years their product line is top notch also.

TechGuy | 09-18-2008 09:08 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1299343) I agree with the fuel storage life but propane CAN be more expensive: 1. You have to spend more to store propane with a pressurized tank, regulators, etc ).....for example, a 55 gallon drum you can often get cheap or free to store gas/diesel would require 2-3 100lb propane bottles @ 125 bucks each. I have about 1500 bucks in my 500 gallon underground tank.....I could get 10 fuel drums for free, or 100 bucks if I bought them. 2. You have to consider the fuel value before you say "cheaper per gallon". BTU/gallon: Propane 94,000 Gasoline 115,000 Diesel 139,000 Takes far more propane than diesel to do the same work, all other things equal.
Agreed, here close to the gulf we tend to get propane for pretty reasonable costs. I figured it up last year and it was slightly cheaper for us. Your mileage may vary! Now, if you were comparing AG diesel with propane, and you lose the tax, it would probably be no contest in favor of the diesel.

TechGuy | 09-18-2008 09:14 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Nub: You guys have problems with fungus in diesel where you live? Here in Houston with high heat and humidity I am always a little worried about long term storage of diesel. I also live in a neighborhood of mostly small acreage lots, I figure propane gensets will be a little quieter than a diesel.

Atahualpa | 09-18-2008 09:14 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1299251) We are in the process of scoping out a propane generator. We have a 500 gallon propane tank on property already. The propane will not 'go bad' like gas or diesel will, and is generally cheaper per gallon. We are looking at a generac or onan genset.
I have an Onan running on propane in my motorhome and it's a good combination for a couple of reasons...one, as you stated, the propane stays good indefinitely and burns without excessive fumes (a consideration for dry camping where you need to charge up your house batteries or run some ac. Quiet diesels are hard to beat if money is not the biggest consideration, the higher upfront costs and now the higher fuel prices can make them impractical for infrequent use, but if you plan to use it a lot, they will last many years.

nub | 09-18-2008 09:30 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Andy's post wasn't there when I started mine....I almost got into BTUs but if you look at my ROUGH real world run times versus the BTU ratings you can see where the run times are almost 3 times longer per gal diesel over propane. I've seen it many times. We're not sold on automatic start gensets.....it's better if a person goes out and physically starts them , your more apt to catch a potential problem and do regular up keep

nub | 09-18-2008 09:37 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Listeroid is good once you finally go through the castings and basically rebuild the damn thing but I'll take my shanghi diesel (German copy) mated to a marathon any day,and it will burn used oil just fine. Now if we were talking a real lister engine I would jump all over it.

TechGuy | 09-18-2008 09:43 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 1299434) There is nothing more quiet than a well muffled Listeroid. Do you hear any exhaust noise here?
I was thinking something a little more aesthetically pleasing... http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Images/8kw.jpg

mtnman | 09-18-2008 09:47 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Anyone looking for a Diesel Generator check the Buy&Sell section. I have one for sale.

mayhem | 09-18-2008 09:49 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? It's all about RPM's, unless you have spare gas motors laying around. Gas gensets run at 3,600 RPM's. Diesed run at 1,800 RPM and will last for eons. I know some people here in Fla that only got 3 weeks of 24/7 from their 600$ gas gensets during hurricane Francies.

TechGuy | 09-18-2008 10:03 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 1299477) Yes! Going for form over function is always the best idea!
I just knew you were you going to give me crap about that! But I do have to take some aesthetics into account.

TechGuy | 09-18-2008 10:23 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 1299513) I bet you can have a Listeroid in a nice little outbuilding for 1/2 the cost of some 12-15KW 'quiet diesel' with an 'aesthetic enclosure'. How well do you think that high-end diesel will hold up to a steady diet of straight waste oil?
I was also thinking about one of these: http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../165951_lg.gif PTO genset for my diesel tractor.

nub | 09-18-2008 10:52 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1299379) Nub: You guys have problems with fungus in diesel where you live? Here in Houston with high heat and humidity I am always a little worried about long term storage of diesel. I also live in a neighborhood of mostly small acreage lots, I figure propane gensets will be a little quieter than a diesel.
Yeah we get the fungus that's why I mentioned the fuel stabilizer/conditioner it kills the fungus also. I know you have considerations you have to address.....hey, it's all about what works best for you, at least your aware of the pros & cons ,there is no perfect generator for all applications .

Igotyour6 | 09-18-2008 10:58 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Yes, it all depends on your needs, and access to fuel. Personally I would go with a listeroide diesel engine with a brush type generator head mounted to it, the brush less generators were invented to keep the repair man in a job, the brush type will last you a life time, get a set of brushes and you have a spare to swap in after a few decades of use. these are indirect injection diesel engines, which means if you rig up the fuel line to run through the cooling tank to warm it up you can run on clean oil, or any other liquid grease such as waste vegetable oil, engine oil and what ever. as long as it is clean liquid. http://cgi.ebay.com/12-HP-Lister-Die...QQcmdZViewItem here is an article about some fellas that got an india made ister and a china gen head. this is my choice! http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/lister.html some time back I found a place on the net where they were usung these type of set up in some poorer nation 24 hours a day 7 days a week and runing like a champ for years on end.

nub | 09-18-2008 11:41 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by Igotyour6 (Post 1299613) Yes, it all depends on your needs, and access to fuel. Personally I would go with a listeroide diesel engine with a brush type generator head mounted to it, the brush less generators were invented to keep the repair man in a job, the brush type will last you a life time, get a set of brushes and you have a spare to swap in after a few decades of use. these are indirect injection diesel engines, which means if you rig up the fuel line to run through the cooling tank to warm it up you can run on clean oil, or any other liquid grease such as waste vegetable oil, engine oil and what ever. as long as it is clean liquid. http://cgi.ebay.com/12-HP-Lister-Die...QQcmdZViewItem here is an article about some fellas that got an india made ister and a china gen head. this is my choice! http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/lister.html some time back I found a place on the net where they were usung these type of set up in some poorer nation 24 hours a day 7 days a week and runing like a champ for years on end.
You had better add up all the costs , time/labor & material you would have involved in a fully operational listeroid generator, I don't care what anybody says they still aren't a LISTER.....for damn near the same money you could have a cherry mitsubishi or isuzu( I have a 15 kw isuzu)they are very quite and will run for 20,000 hrs. excellent fuel economy also. Now, for less money than the listeroid set up you can have a Chinese tank of a generator, 3 or 4 cylinder shanghi diesel .... I call um an inertia machine , same idea as a lister lots of rotating mass, doesn't look the same thou. these are very good quality I have one of these also and it will run all day on used crankcase oil you just have to filter it good. It's a 15 kw that I run my shop on with 7000 hrs on it, the only thing I've done to it is replace an inexpensive water pump that took 1/2 hour total. not all China diesels a created equal, which is what I hear about the Listeroid . I'm not bad mouthing the original Lister, fantastic motor.... just not fully sold on the listeroid and I've done a lot of reading. I'll tell you what I would like to get my hands on and that's an old 1940s WITTE ...those were bad ass. Please don't get me wrong I would consider a Listeroid.....ya never know I might end up with one some day....specialy for the right price.

Mill Man | 09-19-2008 12:03 AM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by Igotyour6 (Post 1299613) Personally I would go with a listeroide diesel engine with a brush type generator head mounted to it, the brush less generators were invented to keep the repair man in a job, the brush type will last you a life time, get a set of brushes and you have a spare to swap in after a few decades of use.
Its a good thing to check those brushes more often than that. To much carbon build up, retention spring failure, etc. and you could lose capacity, cause excessive wear to the commutator, etc.

AgAuGal | 09-19-2008 01:05 AM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1299459) I was thinking something a little more aesthetically pleasing... http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Images/8kw.jpg
natural gas, right? I would like one but I think they are in the $5K range and I don't think that includes installation.

Saul Mine | 09-19-2008 05:48 AM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? If you have propane anything you are betting on no delivery problems. In other words you are only prepped for inconveniences. In a disaster you need something that you can refuel from a bucket.

jamesfrancisco | 09-19-2008 06:33 AM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Diesel fuel will outlast you or I, if treated with an algicide. So will a good diesel generator. I reccomend Onan - knowing of several gas powered sets from the 1950s that are still running strong as the sole source of power for remote homes! A diesel genny will last even longer than that.

TechGuy | 09-19-2008 09:46 AM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Mine (Post 1300093) If you have propane anything you are betting on no delivery problems. In other words you are only prepped for inconveniences. In a disaster you need something that you can refuel from a bucket.
Long term plan is for solar to power most of the everyday items in the house, such as septic aerator, lights, tv, microwave, fans, computers, ect. The genset is for very short term high output needs. I do not intend on living off the generator for long periods of time.

Igotyour6 | 09-19-2008 08:34 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by nub (Post 1299701) You had better add up all the costs , time/labor & material you would have involved in a fully operational listeroid generator, I don't care what anybody says they still aren't a LISTER.....for damn near the same money you could have a cherry mitsubishi or isuzu( I have a 15 kw isuzu)they are very quite and will run for 20,000 hrs. excellent fuel economy also. Now, for less money than the listeroid set up you can have a Chinese tank of a generator, 3 or 4 cylinder shanghi diesel .... I call um an inertia machine , same idea as a lister lots of rotating mass, doesn't look the same thou. these are very good quality I have one of these also and it will run all day on used crankcase oil you just have to filter it good. It's a 15 kw that I run my shop on with 7000 hrs on it, the only thing I've done to it is replace an inexpensive water pump that took 1/2 hour total. not all China diesels a created equal, which is what I hear about the Listeroid . I'm not bad mouthing the original Lister, fantastic motor.... just not fully sold on the listeroid and I've done a lot of reading. I'll tell you what I would like to get my hands on and that's an old 1940s WITTE ...those were bad ass. Please don't get me wrong I would consider a Listeroid.....ya never know I might end up with one some day....specialy for the right price.
you make a lot of decent points, but I still like the listeroid, but I like the sound of a 2 cylinder John Deere model D tractor too! I have a couple of disposable gas generators, and I have a 35 KW John Deere powered diesel that I use for work. cost of that bad boy portable unit was 28K. I would enjoy putting together a lister gen set, the labor would be like a hobby for me. oh I also like old steam engines too...you will see me lurking around the steam engine shows from time to time. :D

TechGuy | 09-19-2008 08:52 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? http://01856bc.netsolhost.com/order/...=L09922#engine Take a look at these. Are there any good sites to get educated on Listeroids? You guys have me very curious about these now, especially after the video (Thanks Suhkoi, I think).

Igotyour6 | 09-19-2008 09:44 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? 2 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 1299477) Yes! Going for form over function is always the best idea! http://www.houstoncars.org/wp-conten...de%5B3%5D1.jpg http://www.pinzgauer.com/shfull.php?...les&picid=1985
OH well that is sure a nice 404 Unimog troop carrier! here is a 406 that was mine till I traded her.:D yea I am spoiled as hell, just ask my wife:smokin: If I may humbly point out the 20,000 pound winch on the rear

Igotyour6 | 09-20-2008 10:38 AM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? I have seen some more portable diesel gen sets built with this Chinese diesel engine and an imported generator head. I have seen them direct connected, and operating as belt drive, I believe the belt drive gives you a slower rpm speed so less fuel, less noise, and longer engine life. http://cgi.ebay.com/New-diesel-engin...QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/15KW-ST-Generato...QQcmdZViewItem This may not be cheaper in the long run if you figure you time into the project, but if you like that sort of thing.

rodin | 09-20-2008 10:57 AM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1299251) We are in the process of scoping out a propane generator. We have a 500 gallon propane tank on property already. The propane will not 'go bad' like gas or diesel will, and is generally cheaper per gallon. We are looking at a generac or onan genset.
Propane or diesel no contest. Propane much cheaper than either in UK but I can get 'red' diesel and yes I am scoping one out too. Nothing too large 2-5 KVA

wallew | 09-20-2008 01:05 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? I've got you all beat. FORM AND FUNCTION... My M1031. One and a quarter ton truck, 6.2L detroit diesel, TH400 tranny, NP205 transfer case, Dana 60 front, 14 bolt rear (or Dana 60 equivalent). Tranny has PTO that drives a Marathon 10Kw generator. The generator in turn powers a twin piston compressor. And she's only got 14k miles on her. Can't get much better than that for less than $3k. Plus TONS of space for all my tools, including oxy/actelene welder unit and can add a mig if I want. I have one spare 6.2L in the can. Plus my Blazer also has a 6.2L engine in it. So I'm fairly well covered on the engine side. I will have to look at the Marathon head to see what I need to rebuild it and purchase those supplies. Here's the panel on the M1031. Gives me the ability to have six 110v plugs, one 208v single phase and one 208v three phase. Yes, she's only got 41 hours on the generator time clock. Park it behind my fenced yard, hook her up and I'm fairly confident that 10Kw will run our home, if necessary. For short periods of time (in the fact that we won't be staying in our current home for a long period of time - we will have 'moved on' as it were - taking the genny with us).

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Gold & Silver Forum - Gasoline vs diesel generators?

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- - Gasoline vs diesel generators? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=303102)

nub | 09-20-2008 01:25 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by rodin (Post 1302514) Propane or diesel no contest. Propane much cheaper than either in UK but I can get 'red' diesel and yes I am scoping one out too. Nothing too large 2-5 KVA
The red dye diesel is what I use.....the propane better be A LOT cheaper because there's a BIG drop in power or output as we've already pointed out.

nub | 09-20-2008 01:53 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by Igotyour6 (Post 1301762) you make a lot of decent points, but I still like the listeroid, but I like the sound of a 2 cylinder John Deere model D tractor too! I have a couple of disposable gas generators, and I have a 35 KW John Deere powered diesel that I use for work. cost of that bad boy portable unit was 28K. I would enjoy putting together a lister gen set, the labor would be like a hobby for me. oh I also like old steam engines too...you will see me lurking around the steam engine shows from time to time. :D
I love old engines to , specially those old Johny poppers , so I'm with you as to what's appealing about the listeroid. There's a really kewl event not far from here every Oct. 11th in Paso Robles CA. it's called Pioneer Day, I guy like you would really dig it, heck it's lots a fun for every one :applause_....they have a free bean feed and two or three different bands play in the streets around town after the big antique tractor /vehicle parade.Over at the antique engine museum and in the park next door they have gangs of enthusiasts and their motors running. All in all I think most people have no idea California still has some of it's old flavor left.....sadly the old times and old ways are just about gone for good, reality for me is when I'm on the tractor or doing some kind of ranch chores , yeah I let the tractor do most of the work now, instead of my back:wink:

Igotyour6 | 09-20-2008 06:43 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by wallew (Post 1302670) I've got you all beat. FORM AND FUNCTION... My M1031. One and a quarter ton truck, 6.2L detroit diesel, TH400 tranny, NP205 transfer case, Dana 60 front, 14 bolt rear (or Dana 60 equivalent). Tranny has PTO that drives a Marathon 10Kw generator. The generator in turn powers a twin piston compressor. And she's only got 14k miles on her. Can't get much better than that for less than $3k. Plus TONS of space for all my tools, including oxy/actelene welder unit and can add a mig if I want. I have one spare 6.2L in the can. Plus my Blazer also has a 6.2L engine in it. So I'm fairly well covered on the engine side. I will have to look at the Marathon head to see what I need to rebuild it and purchase those supplies. Here's the panel on the M1031. Gives me the ability to have six 110v plugs, one 208v single phase and one 208v three phase. Yes, she's only got 41 hours on the generator time clock. Park it behind my fenced yard, hook her up and I'm fairly confident that 10Kw will run our home, if necessary. For short periods of time (in the fact that we won't be staying in our current home for a long period of time - we will have 'moved on' as it were - taking the genny with us).
yea and that setup is portable, and EMP proof should some one ver need to have the need for a truck to drive and provide power after a EMP attack AWESOME:smokin:

TechGuy | 09-20-2008 07:24 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Here we are talking about generators and my power goes out AGAIN. NO estimate on time frame from the power company. Could be weeks. Trees are still falling here. Talked to my neighbor who is a heavy equipment mechanic and low and behold I now have a borrowed DIESEL genset running my house. Oh the irony...........

lessoil=+pm | 09-20-2008 07:46 PM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1299537) I was also thinking about one of these: http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../165951_lg.gif PTO genset for my diesel tractor.
what i went with! only one engine to keep up; though i might like an extra tractor if i had the $ to spend, as a backup. be aware u need the driveshaft too though.

son-of-curtis | 09-22-2008 11:50 AM
Re: Gasoline vs diesel generators? I guess I have a question about Listeroids... I use around 1100 kw of energy per month.. last months bill was 313.99..highest ever... my question is this... If I have 2 water wells..1/2 hp pumps... plus central air can I get a listeroid and a setup to run my generating needs cheaper than paying the local co-op. I run a business so would actually take off my taxes as my dogs have to have water and could show that a generator is neccassary...

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