Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 | >
Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)
- Survival Prep (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=141)
- - I'm Going Over to Your House (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=104742)

Kahlil Gibran | 01-27-2007 11:14 PM
I'm Going Over to Your House From survivalblog dot com: Two Letters Re: How to Reply to "When the SHTF, I'm Going Over to Your House", by Rolf in the Northwest Jim: [In reply to Matt's comments on Rolf's original letter:] There are a lot of examples to illustrate why each person needs their own disaster preps, and the "insurance" example ("why should your fire insurance pay for my house burning down, or vice-versa?") is a good one. Another is the "personalization" aspect: "Sorry, I'm a single guy; I doubt I'd stock your wife's brand of feminine protection." But people tend to think of "disaster preparations" as special or different in some way, because they are not "normal accidents," and most people have a very hard time thinking outside a fairly narrow range of "normal events." Because an "emergency" is outside the "normal" range of events, people will tend to react to thoughts about disasters emotionally, not intellectually, because that is what people do when dealing with things that they have not trained for (which is why you keep hearing "practice, practice, practice!"). By definition, people reacting emotionally are not acting rationally or thoughtfully, even when they by chance do something right. If someone starts acting in any way belligerent, and says they are coming over in spite of your saying or implying that they may not be welcome, it might not be the best thing you can do to say something that they might interpret as a threat. Saying you also stock up on ammo has several problems: it scares them by being a veiled threat to their lives or security, which will make them even more irrational and reactionary; it puts you into that "loon with guns" category; it turns them off to being prepared themselves for a lot of reasons, including "we don't want to be like that survivalist nut that threatened us!"; lastly, it's telling them that if they ever do come over, they need to gang up and be sneaky about it (giving them a tactical advantage). You normally want to avoid give a potentially shooting-war enemy any kind of info on how to best take you out. Obviously there might be situations where it would "shut them up," but it may not get them on the path to independence; it may just make them think they are helpless, and vote for more government programs (and we know how great those are....) A better approach might be to ask "well, what if when you come over you are the fifth in a line of families who also came over, and they don't want to share, or there isn't any left? Or, what if I move away for a new job and the disaster hits the following week? Then what?" You are putting the threat of them starving, or freezing, or whatever into a neutral frame of reference, where you are not the threat, the situation or some unnamed third party is. It is imperative to keep it neutral, so they can think rationally rather than emotionally or defensively, and they don't think of you as the enemy, but think of the disaster situation as the enemy. Stress that independence is the goal, and anything that makes them dependant on you hurts both if something bad happens to you. If they say or imply that they would be willing and able to take your preparation supplies by force (saying "I've got guns, you have food. By the end of the day I'll have both" for example), that's a whole different turn of events. They have just declared to the world that they are a sociopath, a looter in waiting, with means and motive to attack you in a disaster situation. If you have stocked up on ammo (of course you have, right?), don't make it a pissing match about who has more or better stuff; a simple "there are likely easier targets you might want to try to take ammo from than my neighborhood, unless you are really good at detecting booby-traps and dodging lead bumble-bees from multiple directions" puts it terms that they will likely understand. It's vague enough to not get you into trouble, but implies a lot of things they might take to heart, even if you don't currently have any booby-trap plans, and you are the only one in the cul-de-sac with a gun and thorough disaster plans. Then immediately leave or kick them out; don't hang around for them to gather more info about you. Always keep it civil, polite, and neutral. There is no benefit in making enemies; winning friends, expanding your mutual-assistance and mutual-defense circles are the goal, and you cannot do that making threats (direct or veiled), scaring people, insulting people, or making them angry or confused. Once they are onboard with the idea, then you can get into details. - Rolf Jim: I call this the uninvited or self-inviting neighbor/friend problem. "When the SHTF, I'm coming to your house" seems harmless and innocuous, but at the same time, the person who says this is probably testing the waters with you, just to see what your reply is. If you just let it go, he and his family probably will show up, empty handed, at your door one day. I suggest a playful come-back like: �Well, actually I sell tickets for that, $500 a head in advance, renewable each year, same price, or $10,000 per personal at the door, cash only, no-refunds if the World does not end�. This puts the ball playfully back in his court, half jokingly, but makes the cost issue involved clear. I would like to expand a little on this topic, as to the morality of this highly uncomfortable issue, as I think every survivalist must consider it before TSHTF. Since, the early 1960s in the US, the unprepared neighbor knocking on your bomb shelter door, when nuclear war looks imminent, is a common, and even favorite question for college philosophy and ethics students. Your answer of course depends on several facts, and also the standards you use, or the philosophy/religion you chose (the rules you apply) to find the answer. In real life this can be a delicate and dangerous situation. Television shows such as The Twilight Zone and even The Simpsons have addressed it, in both cases it being a false alarm, and people are left feeling pretty bad as to how they behaved. Keep the false alarm issue (facing your neighbor later after your turned him away), and what can happen in the heat of the moment in mind. Be diplomatic. In decided how you are going to handle this, I would like to offer a few thoughts and standards to consider: Utilitarianism - is usually the simplest and easiest one to start with, the greatest good for the greatest people, simple concept. This is the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few, however, if by helping the many, you risk the lives of the few, any everyone, you have to step back and re-adjust your thinking don't you. Often then people then put in the additional rules, help the many if it doesn't kill anyone, or risk killing anyone, or adversely affect the few, etc. Thus this philosophy goes is often added on to with these caveats, and it's really up to your and your beliefs as to where you drawer certain lines and exceptions. Triage � this a painfully pragmatic concept in healthcare treatment, which basically says you treat the most critically injured first, unless they are unlikely to survive. This commonly accepted philosophy tells healthcare professionals, that in situations of crisis, with limited resources, you are in going to have to ignore the people you probably can�t save, and focus on those you can, only, in order starting with the worst off. The Law - Legally speaking, in the USA at least, you do not owe a duty to your help you �fellow man�. If you walk by a guy having a heart attack and ignore him, you have broken no actual law. Are you a jerk for not doing something? Most would probably say yes, especially if you are trained or have a cell phone, but this doesn't make you a criminal. (BTW, some medical training, including EMT in some states does obligate you). However, you are legally responsible for your minor children, so legally their health and welfare can be a legal basis for your decision making. This is often called �Best interests of the children� and it almost always trumps everything else in Court. Look at politicians, it's always "for the children" (even when the teachers go on strike, right?) The Charity Issue (religiously based or just moral ) � my suggestion here is that 10% is a nice percentage for charity, and is historically supported. So - if you think you must or should provide charity, I suggest you set aside 10% of your supplies and call that Charity. Otherwise, you get on a slippery slope to not having the 90% that is yours after all. Remember that there is also another option to charity: wages. If they are already outside, they might work for food - and do some basic stuff, chores, scouting, etc. to earn food. Remember that option. Rational discussions with people, especially friends and family who show up after � remember, if days after people knocking on your door the are in bad shape, hungry and thirsty, overtired, sick, suffering, - they are not in a state for a rational discussion of fairness at that point. You might consider giving them a meal, and some basic stuff, maybe get some sleep, and once they have themselves together, you can have a conversation about this. Not a time for socialism - Here is a fear of mine when it comes to really nice people who are survivalists � they let in a regular used car salesman type neighbor and his family, and the family on the other side. Pretty soon the fast talking neighbor decides that they should form a �democracy� to determine who is in charge in your retreat, and how the food and supplies are split � �fairly�. This is the type that would probably cut a secret deal with the other neighbor too. Never lose sight of the fact that it is your stuff. Your stuff is not up for re-distribution. Remember the new golden rule. Those who have the gold make the rules. Not very Christian? Well , I disagree, you can, and I think should, give charitably, but that most certainly does not mean surrendering to others and becoming an indigent in short time yourself, and more so, putting your family in that situation. Finally, let us also admit here that letting people you our retreat/home/bunker can be dangerous. We all must sleep, and are vulnerable when we do. The very last thing you want to do is wake up to someone holding your gun on you. Consider security, be charitable, but guarded, especially as to whom you grant your trust.

Halophyte | 01-27-2007 11:49 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House This is when I convert my home to an NRA/Jehovah Witness marksmanship camp for Hyper Active children. They'll leave me alone ....

G.Gordon | 01-28-2007 12:41 AM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Just had this type of conversation with a coworker a few days ago. He is trusted and has known about my preps for some time. I live out in the country and he's in the burbs in a much worse place to be if the SHTF. When the I'm coming to your house moment came up, he surprised me and discussed what he was willing to bring to the table if I were to put him up, including equipment, labor, 4x4 vehicle, registered nurse, etc. This was an unexpected development, and got me to think about just who I'd be willing to provide room and protection for, certain relatives who might be dead weight, or someone who would pull his weight? Gonna have to change my list now...

<SLV> | 01-28-2007 09:09 AM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House I recently purchased a 5 acre farm, and my intention is to store up enough food (and seed) as well as other preparations to take care of every person I know and care about. From my perspective, I have a lot of people I care about who (to be blunt) aren't capable of understanding the danger that lurks around the corner. It is easier for me to prepare to care for them than it is to try to educate them. And they aren't dead weight - they are people I love (such as blood relatives and church family). So, the world comes unglued and there you sit on your pile of silver and gold fondling the trigger of an AK. Nice way to live the rest of your life. I'd rather die than live friendless. "The man with a thousand friends will never starve." - SLV

RiverRat | 01-28-2007 10:26 AM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House :cool2: Posted by SLV: Quote:
So, the world comes unglued and there you sit on your pile of silver and gold fondling the trigger of an AK. Nice way to live the rest of your life. I'd rather die than live friendless.
I have just the opposite outlook SLV... Supporting a hoard of worthless brain dead relatives and friends at the expense of my family starving to death just don't cut it. I have no problems if every friend I know bites the dust....my immediate family comes first,last,and always. Even if I had to exterminate a few close friends to make my point...so be it. They have nothing I need or want... They were warned well in advance...it's their problem,not mine. Good Post KG.. :coolbeer:

damoc | 01-28-2007 10:46 AM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House I think SLV has the right idea

damoc | 01-28-2007 10:52 AM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House river rat what happens to your family when some accident befalls you it happens even in the best of times.will there be people around who will watch out for them when you are gone?it seems you may have overlooked that in your survival planning.

RiverRat | 01-28-2007 12:22 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House :cool2: Wow...I must be the only person here who has the lone survivor attitude. Sorry guys...I'll go it alone. Friends and neighbors I consider a bona fide parasitic drain on my time,resources and effort. If you are so unprepared or so lacking in survival skills and defense that you have to depend on group think and safety in numbers I would advise you to steer clear of my location if TSHTF. It will not be pretty...most of you and your precious group will not survive the encounter. I'm really curious to see how your attitude changes when starvation and the inevitable power struggle for control of the group deteriorates into mass attrition of the weaker members. Hope you got a least one hero among you willing to sacrifice the useless,redundant members for the survival of the whole. Let's hope you don't fall into the redundant category...otherwise you are expendable. I wouldn't give even odds your group lasts a month until two thirds of the members are dead. Sorry...I stick with my original plan...no exceptions. :Sorry: :Sorry:

Lackluster | 01-28-2007 12:29 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Why don't you go out and live in the woods now, beat the rush?

Keef | 01-28-2007 12:31 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 489545) :cool2: Wow...I must be the only person here who has the lone survivor attitude. :Sorry: :Sorry:
Your not the only one Rat. I have the same attitude. Been pleading with freinds and family to prepare for years. What a waste of time. Offered to help one freind clean out a garage full of junk and build a small storage area. They declined. Reason? "I will just move in with you if TSHTF." Like hell you will. (just didn't say it out loud). As far as I am concerned they passed on my help then, they won't need it later either. And I expect the fall out to start within the next several months and go on for the rest of our lives...

Maddie | 01-28-2007 12:33 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House No one knows about my preps, but I've always seemed to have one of those personalities that people like to run to when they're nervous or in trouble. It's stupid because I'm one of the least nurturing people I know (I can't even stand having company in my house during normal times!), but they always preface their "coming to your house" comment by saying, "You can handle anything" or "You ain't afraid of nothing!" Yeah, right... Anyway, I just laugh and say, "Yeah, good luck with that...I'll be loooong gone at the first hint of trouble. Besides, when was the last time you had to kick someone's a$$? No way you're making it through the Mexican gangs! Haha!" (Most of them know I live on the edge of an area filled with recent immigrants and considerable gang activity.) I think most of the time when people say this, they're joking, and it's best to just laugh it off instead of tipping your hand. Family members and good friends are the ones you have to worry about. Luckily, my family is sort of on-board (each family unit in the extended family has at least one like-thinking individual, and they all have really good skills and/or resources), and my good friends would be more of an asset than a burden in a survival situation, as I don't tend to have enough patience with other types of people to ever become good friends with them. Anyone else who knows me well enough to show up at my door in a crisis also knows me well enough to know I'm not nurturing, I don't share well, I'm not Christian and don't feel a moral obligation to care for them, I'm about as "warm and fuzzy" as Ripley in Alien (and that's according to one of my closest friends! Lol!), and that my friends have laughingly and frequently joked about my being a "no-sh!t kind of woman" for almost 20 years. (You know how everyone in a group of friends tends to have their "thing," their identity in the group? Apparently, that's the "thing" I have.) Unfortunately, that also seems to be why everyone wants to show up at my door...

RiverRat | 01-28-2007 12:59 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House :cool2: Well said Keef...you must be surrounded by the same type of morons up there in your area. :coolbeer: :coolbeer: I got em up the yang around here. Lackluster: I'm already in the middle of 117 acres...and that's not near enough of a buffer in my opinion...just barely adequate. Maddie: You go girl....If more females had your attitude the world would be a much safer place to live in.You sound like you got your act together. My compliments on your Ripley attitude...your relatives aren't dumb...just lazy. :cool2: :cool2: :cool2:

damoc | 01-28-2007 01:20 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House 5 years worth of food unlimited water supply 10000 gallons of fuel thousands of dollars in pm and other trade goods many years of training and preperation 100 miles from city 300 guns 10000 rounds of ammo 2 hands 2eyes WHAT IS THE WEAKEST LINK?

silverbullet | 01-28-2007 01:36 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House damoc, What is the weakest link? Your guns/ammo ratio. 300 guns, but only 10000 rounds of ammo? That's only 33 rounds per gun. Unless you're going to have a hell of a large group at your compound, sell a few guns and buy a few thousand more rounds. Just my opinion. No matter what I have, I always figure it's not enough. Always need a little more of everything... The writing's on the wall, and I feel the time will be upon us sooner than any of us would like to believe. Somebody somewhere's going to push a button, and things are going to go to hell in a hurry. I'm doing more shopping this week.

damoc | 01-28-2007 01:47 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbullet (Post 489593) damoc, What is the weakest link? Your guns/ammo ratio. 300 guns, but only 10000 rounds of ammo? That's only 33 rounds per gun. Unless you're going to have a hell of a large group at your compound, sell a few guns and buy a few thousand more rounds. Just my opinion. No matter what I have, I always figure it's not enough. Always need a little more of everything... The writing's on the wall, and I feel the time will be upon us sooner than any of us would like to believe. Somebody somewhere's going to push a button, and things are going to go to hell in a hurry. I'm doing more shopping this week.
you are correct but that was not the point i was trying to make. 300 was just a number pulled out of mid air

Tn...Andy | 01-28-2007 01:49 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House I can see both sides of this. Like RR, I have a lot of knuckleheads around me that will never set anything aside for a rainy day, so from where I sit now, it's "go it alone"......I'm working on plans to change that, but it may well not happen.....I don't know. But like gasilat, I think we can't truly anticipate the FORM a SHTF situation might finally take, so it pays to be flexible in your thinking. I would agree with damoc, the weakest link is the human one....or lack of human ones. I've said time and again "Boys....you have GOT to sleep sometime". My hope is that alliances could be formed with neighbors once the ones are aren't worth a crap shake out of the tree.

hoarder | 01-28-2007 02:02 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukhoi_fan (Post 489486) RR, there is strength in numbers,
Agreed. My independence and individuality might turn out to be my greatest weakness WTSHTF. I suspect that may be true of many GIMers. And the least independent and individualistic members of society are the ones who don't prepare for the worst.

Ghost Recon | 01-28-2007 02:03 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House I've been working on my neighbor for the last few years. It goes in one ear and out the other. So this past fall, I was absolutely stunned as I watched a rick of wood being unloaded onto their property. Yes...I said an entire rick. My god where will they put it all on their 1 acre property! Most people around here buy a half rick or less. Several winters back, they came over and asked if they could buy some of my wood. The power was out and they used up their 20 pieces of wood. Well, it's a start. I wonder what else is going on over there...

Tn...Andy | 01-28-2007 02:06 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House As you screen name implies ...........recon, man..... :D

Ghost Recon | 01-28-2007 02:08 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House I'LL BE BACK....

Lackluster | 01-28-2007 02:13 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House What the heck is a rick?

Tn...Andy | 01-28-2007 02:17 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Local term used some places for a stack of wood. A rick or face cord, is generally ( depending on who does the selling...ahahaha ) 1/2 of a cord.....though it could well mean different things different places. A cord is the 'normally' accepted method of selling wood. 4'x4'x8' of tightly stacked wood, or 128 cuft of wood no matter HOW you stack it. About 8 cords I cut last year. http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39...71_p92277.jpeg

Kahlil Gibran | 01-28-2007 02:34 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Every time I see a photo of Andy's homestead a sense of envy is experienced. Fitting that his latest photo appears in my I'm Going Over to Your House thread. Hey Andy...post that photo of your beautiful pond again so we can all appreciate your hard work and planning! :wavey:

<SLV> | 01-28-2007 03:59 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House RR, You and I have two totally different familes and friend groups - I think that makes all of the difference. It's not too late for you to make the right kind of friends ... just in case. Here is another point: All of that food/guns/ammo/PMs might just buy you a lot of friends/supporters/hands/militia members. Another way to look at "support" for others.

Master_Ho | 01-28-2007 04:07 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 489545) :cool2: Wow...I must be the only person here who has the lone survivor attitude. Sorry guys...I'll go it alone. Friends and neighbors I consider a bona fide parasitic drain on my time,resources and effort. Sorry...I stick with my original plan...no exceptions. :Sorry: :Sorry:
PLAYING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE HERE - Suppose you have been telling people to get ready - and further, suppose a few of them do, in fact, take your suggestions...........and suppose further, TSHTF and you guys decide to all gather in one spot for group safety. Would that be an exception?

latemetal | 01-28-2007 06:01 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House TN...Andy, now thats a wood pile.

RiverRat | 01-28-2007 07:28 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House :beer: Future predictions of what form TSHTF might take is different for all of us. My scenario is based on the following: Take a trip to your local mall and check out the mall rats and their parents camped out in the food courts. Next time you chow down at McDs or your local steakhouse just look around you at the psycho yuppies and their SUVs in the parking lot stacked up like sardines stuffing their faces.Let's not forget at least 40% of them have a cell phone glued to their face while eating. Next time you go grocery shopping check out the fact that 75% of the customers around you are obese or working on it. Those are just a few to watch for ....I could list dozens. Now let's take JSP who lives from paycheck to paycheck and throw in your average neighbor with a $200K mortgage and 2 SUV payments. Two extremes with 3/4 of the US population falling somewhere in the middle. Now pick any of the above that most closely fits your suburban neighbor and mix well with economic or civil war.... Ask yourself this.... You want these people for friends and group support in a life or death situation ? They can't handle pressure now...what the hell do you think they will do under life and death stress ? I'll pass...they are beyond salvage already...they would eat your preps up and whine when you ran out...berating you for not being better prepared to save them from their own stupidity. Hey...that's what friends are for...you wouldn't turn away a starving yuppie brother would you ? Yep...In a heartbeat...go eat the side mirrors off your SUV...I can spare a ketchup packet or two...my trigger finger on the old AK is starting to sweat...better hurry it up bro... :cool2: :cool2:

Scorpio | 01-28-2007 07:40 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House I would agree mostly with what RR is saying, except somebody needs to be around to pick up the pieces and hit restart on this country, otherwise there is no sense in prepping for anything. Might as well have 1 gun, and enough bullets to do what must be done. there will be a need for like minds. those will be the ones you befriend, those that do not need you. the rest can mill amongst themselves and deal with each other.

Maddie | 01-28-2007 08:09 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Sometimes those ordinary people can surprise you. A lot of the middle-aged black women I know come from a rural background, and I've heard them talk about making sure they have enough food put up, etc. I teach some medical classes, and I'm often asked what to do if modern medicine isn't available or what kind of masks to use for bird flu (and they take notes!). Unlike the people with a 'hood mentality, they remember what it's like to be poor and to have struggled hard not to be. A lot of the black churches seem to be preaching the idea that very bad times are coming, too. It's the upper middle-class white women who seem the most oblivious. They don't ever seem to think anything can go wrong. In a psychology class I sometimes teach, there's a chapter of the book that talks about anxiety and the threat of terrorist attacks like 9/11 and disasters like Katrina. We talk about how Katrina and 911 affected them (amazing...some have stories about family members who narrowly missed being in the Towers that day and friends who died). We talk about what FEMA (yes, FEMA...I don't want to tip my hand too much, and FEMA is kind of safe territory) recommends for disaster preparedness, etc., and instead of a test for that chapter, I let students write their "disaster plans." Some students are really together in that department. Some have even known about storing food in buckets, etc. Quite a few of them own guns and shoot (hey, it is the south!). I have been quite surprised, as I didn't expect such transcendence of sheepleness from so many of them. Most of them, however, are not that good. The most recent class doesn't stand a chance. After reading their appallingly bad plans, I told them it was clear they're all going to die. (Told you I wasn't nurturing!) They laughed nervously, and we critiqued their plans and revised them. I'm sure the whole lot of them went home and threw their plans away. Oh well. I tried.

Kahlil Gibran | 01-28-2007 08:13 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio (Post 490001) there will be a need for like minds. those will be the ones you befriend, those that do not need you. the rest can mill amongst themselves and deal with each other.
Note to Self: After the grid goes down try to contact RiverRat via shortwave radio for like-minded company and sober humor. :Zzzz:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:17 AM. |
Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 | >
Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright = None use it and Link to GIM

Gold & Silver Forum - I'm Going Over to Your House

Page 2 of 2 | < | 1 | 2
Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)
- Survival Prep (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=141)
- - I'm Going Over to Your House (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=104742)

Onboard | 01-28-2007 08:59 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Tn Andy, that is a lot of fire wood. You're definately a hard worker. Did most of that come from slash? Couldn't help but notice that fine looking timber stacked under cover. Did ya saw 'em yourself?

Tn...Andy | 01-28-2007 09:11 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Firewood comes from slash, and areas I clear. The 6x8s in the shed are for a log cabin I have in mind.

Onboard | 01-28-2007 09:29 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Thanks Andy. I was asking because I've been thinking on a portable bandsaw type sawmill. Just curious. Back on topic. I plan on helping family members as much as I can. They all say the same thing. We're coming to your house! I then tell them, come on, just bring supplies. All my siblings and their significant others then start telling me what they're gonna bring. Lodging will be the really big problem. Kind of brings me back to the sawmill thing. Great thread.

damoc | 01-28-2007 09:30 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 489989) :beer: Future predictions of what form TSHTF might take is different for all of us. My scenario is based on the following: Take a trip to your local mall and check out the mall rats and their parents camped out in the food courts. Next time you chow down at McDs or your local steakhouse just look around you at the psycho yuppies and their SUVs in the parking lot stacked up like sardines stuffing their faces.Let's not forget at least 40% of them have a cell phone glued to their face while eating. Next time you go grocery shopping check out the fact that 75% of the customers around you are obese or working on it. Those are just a few to watch for ....I could list dozens. Now let's take JSP who lives from paycheck to paycheck and throw in your average neighbor with a $200K mortgage and 2 SUV payments. Two extremes with 3/4 of the US population falling somewhere in the middle. Now pick any of the above that most closely fits your suburban neighbor and mix well with economic or civil war.... Ask yourself this.... You want these people for friends and group support in a life or death situation ? They can't handle pressure now...what the hell do you think they will do under life and death stress ? I'll pass...they are beyond salvage already...they would eat your preps up and whine when you ran out...berating you for not being better prepared to save them from their own stupidity. Hey...that's what friends are for...you wouldn't turn away a starving yuppie brother would you ? Yep...In a heartbeat...go eat the side mirrors off your SUV...I can spare a ketchup packet or two...my trigger finger on the old AK is starting to sweat...better hurry it up bro... :cool2: :cool2:
For the most part I do not disagree with what you are saying I dont have any friends like that I dont share thier interests and they dont share mine, most would not even drive down my road because it would dirty or damage thier suvs.but my friends and neighbors are a different story even if they are not prepared I feel it is an advantage to my survival and my families to have prepared extra to assist them if I can.This is for many different reasons such as defence and security, skill swapping for example I think I have many usefull survival skills among them are first aid, family doctoring, herbal remedies but I know I do not know as much as my neighbors one I know is a nurse and another a little further away is a doctor its in my best interest to keep these people around as long as possible. equipment exchange I currently do this now, I cant afford to own everthing I would like to right now if the shtf tomorrow I would realy like to use my neighbors tractor to plant an extra couple of acres of produce.I think If your friends and neighbors are all as you describe then you need to move because no amount of 7.62 will protect you from them for long.

RiverRat | 01-28-2007 09:36 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House :emotions16: Posted by Scorpio: Quote:
except somebody needs to be around to pick up the pieces and hit restart on this country,
Restart ? Yep...I forgot,bears have a built in restart button they use every spring after hibernation. For the rest of us...how about ? REBOOT !! Let's just hope there are enough pieces left over to pick up. :beer:

Unclad Lad | 01-28-2007 11:39 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House The stores and stockpiles aren't for your neighbors whose McMansion has no heat or light. You're not saving it all for when the looters and the Reavers come through. It's for after that, when the sheep are eaten, the jackals have been killed, and the folks who are left start to form communities again. I cannot possibly learn every skill there is, but others will have things I can't live without-like a knowledge of dentistry, or engineering. River Rat, I wish you luck; I wish I had the skill and wherewithal to do that, but with the hope I'd never need to. And finally, there are the mountainmen and homesteaders who are independent and ready for everything, and there are those of us with lesser degrees of preparation. My goals for the next year are to be debt-free and have 4 months of food and water. For now that means a cramped apartment in a large city, because my current job can get me to that goal, and past it. A few more PMs would be nice too.

RiverRat | 01-29-2007 01:37 AM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House :cool2: My unsolicited advice to everyone on this thread.. The time may come when all your hopes and dreams of finding support and reliance on others may cease to exist. Lot's of reasons that could happen... Major war,catastrophic epidemic,natural disaster,etc come to mind as primary scenarios. The thought occurred to me that there is a more than a distinct possibility that if I need help or depend on others for support there just might not be anyone alive within a thousand miles left to help me. That being the worst case scenario,I began making preparations fifteen years ago to learn how to build or repair everything except nuclear suitcase bombs....I could probably scrounge up a couple thousand gross smoke detectors and actually build a low grade dirty version if I thought it was necessary...but that's just me.Yes,I have the knowledge and the tools. Now that's off topic...so shoot me...but read on. Does your knowledge extend to biological warfare ? Got gas masks and spare filters ? Extended knowledge of chemical warfare agents and applications ? Are you capable of building robotic defense systems that use motion detection,heat,vibration, and light so you can sleep unmolested ? Can you operate,build or repair farm and construction equipment if your life depended on it ? Are you capable of building a home starting from a patch of bare ground completely by yourself ? Electrical,plumbing,etc ? Could you walk into an abandoned foundry or manufacturing plant and start up the entire operation with no help ? Are you up to performing surgery on yourself or your family to save their life if you had a good technical manual to reference the procedure ? We could go on for hours but it would be pointless... Specialization of skills and knowledge is not under lock and key,anyone with the desire to learn can accomplish damn near anything if they want it bad enough. In my case I have always had the ability and skills to go to the local library and read the technical details of how something operates or the concept of operation and build or repair damn near everything I ever encountered...degree of difficulty or lack of technical knowledge never stopped me for a second. Electronics,mechanics,chemistry...who cares ? If someone was smart enough to build it,I'm smart enough to understand how and why it came into existance...from that point on it's just a matter of reverse engineering to grasp why 1+1=2 I am an enigma in a world full of specialized people and skills...so my attitude reflects years of self taught education and a multitude of skills way beyond normal levels. That means nothing if some AHole pulls the destruct lever and blows all of us to oblivion...but just in case they miss me by mistake I intend to be among the living for as long as possible. Blast me back to the stone age...I'll find the technical manuals for the local nuclear plant,defeat the security systems and have her back on line in a week. Confidence and desire is the name of the game...anything that has been done can be done again. It's up to you to decide how bad you really want to survive.Living in a cave might suit me for a week or two,but I'd have to start improving it with HVAC,running water and indoor plumbing about the third week. I don't need a team of helpers...they would just get in my way and slow me down. Arrogance ? Nope...hard core reality...after everything is destroyed the only weapons and tools you have left just might be between your ears. :coolbeer:

damoc | 01-29-2007 10:54 AM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House RR while you are definitly in the minority you are not the only one with advanced survival skills.In many parts of the world much of what you cited is comman knowledge and used on a day to day basis. It would be a shame for you and others that may be helped by it for all that knowledge to be lost by snakebite,axe accident,tree felling accident, tractor accident etc etc or just some sob with a hunting rifle and scope that wants what you have got. I think the soloist mentality is the weakest part of an otherwise sound survival preparedness strategy. I think your skills and knowledge make you someone to valuable to a group to lose posibly/probably even leader.I think this gives you safety in a group.

Kahlil Gibran | 01-29-2007 11:03 AM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Quote:
Originally Posted by damoc (Post 490689) I think the soloist mentality is the weakest part of an otherwise sound survival preparedness strategy. I think your skills and knowledge make you someone to valuable to a group to lose posibly/probably even leader.I think this gives you safety in a group.
damoc has posted the best counter-argument here. The problem remains that most American "groups" are a collection of useless individual eaters today. :smile:

____hoot____ | 01-29-2007 11:46 AM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House TN Andy, that is a nice stack of wood. Guys, that is the amount you will need to make it through a northern or mountain winter in a standard sized house. I need 7-8 cord to keep this leaky old bitch of a Frank Loyd Wright wantabee liveable through a six month heating season. Think about all the time you will have to spend running a noisy chainsaw to cut that size of a stack. RR I hope you have made provisions to have someone watch your back if you plan to heat with wood. Surpriseing sometimes what others do know about our present situation. Was talking to a late 50's woman at the bar last night with a lung cancer condition that she is fighting with natural means, had guessed that something of that sort was up with her after seeing how she was living her life to the hilt, and darn if she didn't know all about the chemtrails and government spraying of us.

GOLD DUCK | 01-29-2007 12:41 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 490343) :cool2: My unsolicited advice to everyone on this thread.. The time may come when all your hopes and dreams of finding support and reliance on others may cease to exist. Lot's of reasons that could happen... Major war,catastrophic epidemic,natural disaster,etc come to mind as primary scenarios. The thought occurred to me that there is a more than a distinct possibility that if I need help or depend on others for support there just might not be anyone alive within a thousand miles left to help me. That being the worst case scenario,I began making preparations fifteen years ago to learn how to build or repair everything except nuclear suitcase bombs....I could probably scrounge up a couple thousand gross smoke detectors and actually build a low grade dirty version if I thought it was necessary...but that's just me.Yes,I have the knowledge and the tools. Now that's off topic...so shoot me...but read on. Does your knowledge extend to biological warfare ? Got gas masks and spare filters ? Extended knowledge of chemical warfare agents and applications ? Are you capable of building robotic defense systems that use motion detection,heat,vibration, and light so you can sleep unmolested ? Can you operate,build or repair farm and construction equipment if your life depended on it ? Are you capable of building a home starting from a patch of bare ground completely by yourself ? Electrical,plumbing,etc ? Could you walk into an abandoned foundry or manufacturing plant and start up the entire operation with no help ? Are you up to performing surgery on yourself or your family to save their life if you had a good technical manual to reference the procedure ? We could go on for hours but it would be pointless... Specialization of skills and knowledge is not under lock and key,anyone with the desire to learn can accomplish damn near anything if they want it bad enough. In my case I have always had the ability and skills to go to the local library and read the technical details of how something operates or the concept of operation and build or repair damn near everything I ever encountered...degree of difficulty or lack of technical knowledge never stopped me for a second. Electronics,mechanics,chemistry...who cares ? If someone was smart enough to build it,I'm smart enough to understand how and why it came into existance...from that point on it's just a matter of reverse engineering to grasp why 1+1=2 I am an enigma in a world full of specialized people and skills...so my attitude reflects years of self taught education and a multitude of skills way beyond normal levels. That means nothing if some AHole pulls the destruct lever and blows all of us to oblivion...but just in case they miss me by mistake I intend to be among the living for as long as possible. Blast me back to the stone age...I'll find the technical manuals for the local nuclear plant,defeat the security systems and have her back on line in a week. Confidence and desire is the name of the game...anything that has been done can be done again. It's up to you to decide how bad you really want to survive.Living in a cave might suit me for a week or two,but I'd have to start improving it with HVAC,running water and indoor plumbing about the third week. I don't need a team of helpers...they would just get in my way and slow me down. Arrogance ? Nope...hard core reality...after everything is destroyed the only weapons and tools you have left just might be between your ears. :coolbeer:
QWAK,RR,I understand ware you are coming from, honistly I do, because what you discribed is almost exactly ME. Been there done that and AM DOING IT! However I also have to accept that now and then some HELP would shure be apreciated and that some things are STUPID DANGEROUS to do alone and I have done them and got the SCARS to show for it! Don't know if you ever heard of this guy or IF he was/is for real, but what he describes seems to ME what we can expect AFTER the shit hits the fan and all the dust and smoke blow away. http://www.johntitor.com/Pages/Story.html It just seems to ME that NET WORKING with others over the inter NET is a way to KICK START civilization and that after a fiew months most of the LOSERS and SCUM BAGS will have eliminated each other to a large extent. It will be an OPERTUNITY to come together and pick up the pieces and perhaps do it DIFERENTLY and BETTER than ever before! Just SURVIVING is not ENOUGH and to truely HELP your family and provide for their future and their childrens futures, you need to incorperate at some point as part of your plan, HOW to pass on the valuable knolage and talants you have made a part of your self. :coolbeer: the DUCK

Anty Ep | 01-29-2007 12:47 PM
Re: I'm Going Over to Your House Quote:
Originally Posted by <SLV> (Post 489451) I recently purchased a 5 acre farm, and my intention is to store up enough food (and seed) as well as other preparations to take care of every person I know and care about. From my perspective, I have a lot of people I care about who (to be blunt) aren't capable of understanding the danger that lurks around the corner. It is easier for me to prepare to care for them than it is to try to educate them. And they aren't dead weight - they are people I love (such as blood relatives and church family). So, the world comes unglued and there you sit on your pile of silver and gold fondling the trigger of an AK. Nice way to live the rest of your life. I'd rather die than live friendless. "The man with a thousand friends will never starve." - SLV
I like what you say and have some similar invitations out there. But if anybody shows up at my door, I am going to have them sign an indenture or oath of fealty, and seal it with a bloody thumbprint if they can't meet the "buy in" up front. lol If it's SHTF bad enough, then I will go into warlord mode. Hell if I am going to hang out in the stix and let the bad guys grab all the real estate. :s10:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:17 AM. |
Page 2 of 2 | < | 1 | 2
Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright = None use it and Link to GIM