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hoarder | 03-14-2009 12:50 PM
Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? This subject has been beat to death but I still can't decide what kind to get. I need a stationary generator that will run economically for many hours. It will run a 2HP well pump only, and will need to produce at least 5 KW continuous, 240 VAC 60 cycles. So....there are two categories of generators to start with; those that run at 1800 RPM or less and the ones that run 3600 RPM. 3600 RPM generators are good for portability, but only gasoline burns fast enough for 3600 RPM engines. Sure there are diesel and propane hi speed engines but I don't want one. Once you rule out generators that run over 1800 RPM there is not much to choose from in small (under 15 KW) generators. Old horizontally opposed 2 cyl Onans run 1800 RPM and could be adapted to propane. I have one, an unfinished project. I may use it to run the cabin, which is a considerable distance from my wellhead. Ideal would be a small diesel, but there is even less to choose from in the size I need...about 6 KW. Get up to 12 KW and there are some choices, all very expensive unless over 1800 RPM. I'm thinking Listeroid. An 8/1 or 10/1 CS would be about the right size for me. something like this: http://www.generatorsales.com/order/...sp?page=L09921 Bushpilot, how did your Listeroid work for you?

TechGuy | 03-14-2009 01:59 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Quote:
3600 RPM generators are good for portability, but only gasoline burns fast enough for 3600 RPM engines. Sure there are diesel and propane hi speed engines but I don't want one.
Not sure I understand your statement there. I have a Kubota 3cyl diesel that hums along at 3600 rpm I would love to have a lister btw..... those things are awesome.

hoarder | 03-14-2009 02:43 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1625220) Not sure I understand your statement there. I have a Kubota 3cyl diesel that hums along at 3600 rpm I would love to have a lister btw..... those things are awesome.
I heard about them, they're probably the best high speed diesel generators made. Kubotas are good, although parts are ridiculously pricey in some cases. If you look around at larger industrial trucks and equipment you will see that governed top speed for diesels is around 2200 RPM or less and this is because it's a slow burning fuel. Anything past that is pushing the envelope.

TechGuy | 03-14-2009 02:51 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 1625277) I heard about them, they're probably the best high speed diesel generators made. Kubotas are good, although parts are ridiculously pricey in some cases. If you look around at larger industrial trucks and equipment you will see that governed top speed for diesels is around 2200 RPM or less and this is because it's a slow burning fuel. Anything past that is pushing the envelope.
Mine is in a tractor. There are some VERY high performance diesel engines that FAR FAR exceed 2200 rpm. 2200 rpm may be the most efficient range for said diesel, but it is not limited by the fuel.

hoarder | 03-14-2009 03:01 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1625292) Mine is in a tractor. There are some VERY high performance diesel engines that FAR FAR exceed 2200 rpm. 2200 rpm may be the most efficient range for said diesel, but it is not limited by the fuel.
Actually, 1900 RPM is about the most efficient range, but you have to have room to shift gears so they set the governors faster. Running 18 wheelers down the highway at 2200 RPM all the time is hard on them and fuel consumption goes way up. I wonder what the compression ratio on your Kubota is.

scyth | 03-14-2009 05:22 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Not to hijack this thread away from low RPM diesel....... But here is something I have been taking a very long hard look at: http://www.firemountainsolar.com/pdf/Kohler_12RES.pdf I like propane; in many respects it is "greener" than either Gas or diesel, plus I can get a 200 gallon tank provided For a nominal cost by the local propane vendor. 65 db! 5 year warranty, as opposed to the usual 1 or 2. The one con I see with this unit is that it comes with soundshield only. So I'd have to build a shed. Big deal. scyth

hoarder | 03-14-2009 05:37 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Quote:
Originally Posted by scyth (Post 1625439) Not to hijack this thread away from low RPM diesel....... But here is something I have been taking a very long hard look at: http://www.firemountainsolar.com/pdf/Kohler_12RES.pdf I like propane; in many respects it is "greener" than either Gas or diesel, plus I can get a 200 gallon tank provided For a nominal cost by the local propane vendor. 65 db! 5 year warranty, as opposed to the usual 1 or 2. The one con I see with this unit is that it comes with soundshield only. So I'd have to build a shed. Big deal. scyth
That's a 3600 RPM generator that runs on propane. Not a very good idea, IMO. A warranty is not everything, I'd rather have correct engine design than a piece of paper. Engines designed to run on propane or natural gas have the timing set at about 35 degrees before top dead center for a reason....it takes time to burn it. At 3600 RPM much unburned hydrocarbons go out the exaust pipe.

TechGuy | 03-14-2009 05:46 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder (Post 1625304) Actually, 1900 RPM is about the most efficient range, but you have to have room to shift gears so they set the governors faster. Running 18 wheelers down the highway at 2200 RPM all the time is hard on them and fuel consumption goes way up. I wonder what the compression ratio on your Kubota is.
Engine: D902-E2-BX-2 Rated RPM: 3200 CR: 18:1 (from what I can find for E2 variant) there is a EV variant that is 23:1 (wow) HP: 23 (gross) Torque: 41.4 ft lbs

hoarder | 03-14-2009 06:41 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1625474) Rated RPM: 3200
Some of the automotive diesels are high RPM also, probably so they would be driveable without having 12 speed transmissions. I don't agree with that idea and was surprised when I found out Kubota did it. I bet they don't run their larger engines that fast. I'm not trying to bash Kubota, I'm aware of their excellent track record. I prefer to have a low RPM engine if I'm going to use slower burning fuels. I used to work on large natural gas engines. The low speeds ran 285 RPM and the "high speeds" ran 900 to 1200 RPM. Natural gas has similar characteristics to propane. I had some engines that had 70,000 hours on the lower ends...no rings replaced in that time. That's equivalent to 2.8 million miles based on one hour = 40 miles.

IGrok | 03-14-2009 08:49 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? I am a huge fan of the Listeriod type gensets. If you want something you can work on easily, is very economical, runs forever, sounds cool, they can't be beat. There are also some bright guys driving at the same time(along with the generator) automobile A/C compressors to set up a type of reverse cycle/heatpump type heating systems for the home. Here is a link to the lister forum. http://www.listerengine.com/

hoarder | 03-15-2009 12:13 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Quote:
Originally Posted by IGrok (Post 1625723) I am a huge fan of the Listeriod type gensets. If you want something you can work on easily, is very economical, runs forever, sounds cool, they can't be beat. There are also some bright guys driving at the same time(along with the generator) automobile A/C compressors to set up a type of reverse cycle/heatpump type heating systems for the home. Here is a link to the lister forum. http://www.listerengine.com/
Thanks for the link, IGrok. I've also been studying here: http://www.utterpower.com/ http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/lister.html

CANUCKFARMER | 03-15-2009 02:11 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? For what its worth,i doubt you will have enough fuel on hand to burn out any generator. Those 18 wheelers are not running anywhere near 2000 rpm. 1400 rpm cruising speed,although our tractors operating rpm is two thousand. I was a fan of kubota stuff,but i've heard a few rumors floating around about the quality latley.

TechGuy | 03-15-2009 02:16 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Quote:
Originally Posted by CANUCKFARMER (Post 1626694) For what its worth,i doubt you will have enough fuel on hand to burn out any generator. Those 18 wheelers are not running anywhere near 2000 rpm. 1400 rpm cruising speed,although our tractors operating rpm is two thousand. I was a fan of kubota stuff,but i've heard a few rumors floating around about the quality latley.
Mine is the same D902 engine they have been building since 1983. http://www.dieselenginemotor.com/kub...ini/page5.html I was thinking about a lister, but after reading the rocket guys posts, I think I'll stick with a tractor driven PTO genset. I dont really want to muck with one that much.

Armed.peasant | 03-15-2009 09:53 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Tech Guy : What RPM do you run your tractor at for your PTO generator? Is there a range?

TechGuy | 03-15-2009 10:07 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Quote:
Originally Posted by Armed.peasant (Post 1627511) Tech Guy : What RPM do you run your tractor at for your PTO generator? Is there a range?
3400 gives me 540 PTO rpm.. I don't have the PTO gen yet, should be able to order next month (trying to wait for sale) but all PTO gensets are set to run at PTO speed.

Armed.peasant | 03-15-2009 10:18 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? A have never had my Kubota (28 HP) over 2200, that is bush hog RPM. I have thought about a PTO generator, I did not know they required that high of an RPM. Thanks for the Info.

TechGuy | 03-15-2009 10:32 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Quote:
Originally Posted by Armed.peasant (Post 1627545) A have never had my Kubota (28 HP) over 2200, that is bush hog RPM. I have thought about a PTO generator, I did not know they required that high of an RPM. Thanks for the Info.
They don't. Check your PTO rpm. On a lot of full size kubota's it is the yellow (orange?) line on the tach and said PTO range. That range will get you 540 rpm My little kubota uses a higher reving engine due to it's size. Your 28hp if you never had it over 2200, is probably set to 540 rpm PTO speed at 2200 engine RPM. I think that is the pto range for a 28hp kb.

Armed.peasant | 03-15-2009 10:46 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? I looked it up, 2,580 = 540 on the 28 HP HST. The dealer suggested 2,200 was a good range for bush hogging, but the operators manual suggest 2,580 for the 540. Thanks again.

TechGuy | 03-15-2009 10:52 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? Quote:
Originally Posted by Armed.peasant (Post 1627582) I looked it up, 2,580 = 540 on the 28 HP HST. The dealer suggested 2,200 was a good range for bush hogging, but the operators manual suggest 2,580 for the 540. Thanks again.
I have been checking around quite a bit, and if you already have a good diesel tractor with PTO, a PTO genset is by far the most practical way to go. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...8467_200308467 This is the one I plan to order. Lots of good reviews. Good price. Lots of people here will have issue with the chinese made genset, but honestly, I cannot afford a winco. You could actually run the next step up...

CANUCKFARMER | 03-15-2009 11:36 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? For what its worth. On some applications on the farm,if we have an oversized tractor running a 540 rpm implement I will put a one thousand pto shaft on the tractor and then put a "reducer" of a 540 on the tractor-back to the implement.Not all tractors have both,but there are adapters. The benefit is a tractor idling at 1000 rpm rather than 2000.Doing the same thing. Easier on the ears and fuel.I beleive pto generators would fall into this category.

TTAZZMAN | 03-15-2009 11:37 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? just out of curiosity... how much fuel does one of those lil Kubotas use turning 2500rpms under load? and how large a fuel tank do they have? im curious what the run time would be im in the market for a hobby farm tractor..+/- 40hp ....i have several ginneys but just curious...any subjestions on which tractors to buy or stay away from? im used to construction equipment with cat diesels and perkins diesels

CANUCKFARMER | 03-15-2009 11:54 PM
Re: Another Generator Thread. Listeroid? I agree that you stick with that,tech. So many things to buy,so little time, If you do have a new kubota or even an old one,just google some local sales departments and ask for the service manager and fire some questions at him.He will flat out tell you what to expect.Some people who are not farmers dont understand this relationship between customer and service tech,but its there,they are Payed to tell you because they have so few clientel and that clientel is paying hundreds of thousands a year. And they dont know you because of the vast area they cover.Trust me. And the parts guys know a sheet load to.

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