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- - "Smart Plays" (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=237232)

Dave | 02-18-2008 02:26 PM
"Smart Plays" This thread has been established to share ideas and concepts in a hypothetical environment where we can analyze their merit and effectiveness for creating public impact. Some ideas shared herein may consist of actions not fully legal in accordance with either Local, State, or Federal laws. Considering the potential legal or illegal nature of such actions and concepts discussed in this thread, as it applies to your local laws should be taken under advisement. It is recommended that you DO NOT take any of this discussion seriously but rather as a mental exercise or simulation. With the above disclaimer stated, I would like to establish the purpose of this thread. Most people sit around after taking the proverbial "red pill" wondering what can they do to make change and help alter the course this nation of "Sovereign States" (well maybe) is currently plowing down. Our liberties, properties, and lives are at stake, yet no one else seems to be aware of this or are complacent (fat,dumb,happy) enough not to care. I fully believe we will never get sanctioning from the MSM, current major political parties, and especially the powers that be. The mass public will also likely not be friendly to the cause since they blindly follow the previously stated entities. However, it is not the majority that we are after, rather the motivated minority. These are the people that will stop, question, research and educate themselves. They are the same people that will pull the weight of the other 95%. I would like to think that most people reading this thread are apart of that motivated minority. That being said, how do we reach this minority beyond ourselves? How do we help them understand what is at stake on a personal level? How do we make our message visible, clear and concise? People involved with the Ron Paul campaign have learned first hand how difficult this task can be (especially when ignored by the MSM), likewise they can probably contribute in the areas where they were successful. I do not claim to know the answers to these questions but I am willing to wager we collectively can establish some methods and create tools to further the cause. Let me share some personal ideas.... 1. Infiltrate your local political party meetings (Republican, Democrat, etc.). In a subtle but consistent way try to stir the group in the right direction. This approach would likely take a group of dedicated people over a long period of time to make an impact. 2. Begin networking. This means you need to come out of your shells and make it a goal to inform and motivate at least two people a month. Individually this may seem small but collectively this will incur a geometric growth of our ranks. If we do just these two things, we will have a significant impact over the coming years. At the next level, I would like to suggest forms of civil disobedience to increase exposure. This is where I would like to open the discussion. What are your ideas? What would you hypothetically do? What do you feel the impact of your ideas will be? I look forward to your thoughts... Dave

Silver Shield | 02-18-2008 03:21 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" The best "smart play" IMO is to educate yourself, prep yourself, and protect yourself. I do not believe in trying to wake up the sheep, for the simple reason they don't want to be woken up. The same thought is like making an alcholic sober up, if they don't want to, they won't. As for infiltarting groups and power stuctures, don't bother there you will run into structural and personal roadblocks. Just try changing something simple like a school board. A poor use of time and energy. By playing into the power stucture you ligitimize the power. Ignore them and ask nothing for them. As for making something like a grand army of GIM. If motivated minority ever made a group, it only makes it a target and begs to be focused on and persecuted. The majority of the people will wake up when the system breaks down and fails them. When everything that they believed in is proven to be a fraud. When people finally know what it means to live beyond their means. When good people are rewarded and criminals are punished. When you have taken the red pill you are aware and you can prepare. WTSHTF you should be calm, cool ,and collected for you are ready. Then family and friends will ask you how came you be so calm as TEOTWAWKI. THEN THEY WILL LISTEN. The power of us IS that we are individuals. We are really against all forms of centralized power due to the fact that it is corrupt and rewards corrupt people. Therefore pick which heirarchical system you want to fight and individually subvert it. Don't like the school system, homeschool. Don't like the Federal Reserve, buy gold and silver. Don't like property taxes and local government, move. Don't like MSM, cancel your cable. Don't like consumerism, buy less and better spent. Don't like war,do all of the above and don't join the military. If enough individuals make their own decisions to better themselves and be the change that they want to see in the world, they will fail. <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tlWZZSD4irM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tlWZZSD4irM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object> <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cyrINW3-_-8&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cyrINW3-_-8&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

AMforPM | 02-18-2008 04:05 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" IMO, most people, even very religious people, underestimate the power of prayer. For atheists or agnostics the power of affirmation serves as well. Buddhists do not believe in a creator but they do believe outward reality can be shaped by mind. And we are all connected.

Dave | 02-18-2008 04:25 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
The best "smart play" IMO is to educate yourself, prep yourself, and protect yourself.
Indeed. You have to take care of your own educations, families, and preparations before you can be an effective player for change. Quote:
I do not believe in trying to wake up the sheep, for the simple reason they don't want to be woken up. The same thought is like making an alcholic sober up, if they don't want to, they won't.
I will have to disagree with this. At one point I think all of us in one way or another were sheep until we became educated. I personally attribute my pivotal change from sheep status to educated to a friend years ago. I personally have always been capable of critical thought but due to the nature of propaganda, unless you are exposed to the other side of the equation you will likely never see it until it is too late. Quote:
As for infiltarting groups and power stuctures, don't bother there you will run into structural and personal roadblocks. Just try changing something simple like a school board. A poor use of time and energy. By playing into the power stucture you ligitimize the power. Ignore them and ask nothing for them.
If you are successful at infiltrating a local political committee, you will be able to elect delegates who are loyal to the truth and not to the PTB. Tonight, I will be attending a local GOP Executive committee with over 20 like minded members, we will likely outnumber the regular GOP attendees and if we keep this up we will probably change our local politics. I understand the argument by not legitimizing power by ignoring it, however, when this is only being done by a SMALL percentage of people it will never have an impact. We all agree the sheep probably make up nearly 99% of the population. Do you think the 1% that are probably already ignoring these power structures have had an impact? This is where I believe we need to change strategies and and find ways to increase our numbers. Quote:
As for making something like a grand army of GIM. If motivated minority ever made a group, it only makes it a target and begs to be focused on and persecuted.
The purpose of this thread was not to create a GIM army. To be honestly, I would be HIGH DISAPPOINTED if people actually used this forum to coordinate actions. The purpose of this thread is to share ideas. Quote:
The majority of the people will wake up when the system breaks down and fails them. When everything that they believed in is proven to be a fraud. When people finally know what it means to live beyond their means. When good people are rewarded and criminals are punished. When you have taken the red pill you are aware and you can prepare. WTSHTF you should be calm, cool ,and collected for you are ready. Then family and friends will ask you how came you be so calm as TEOTWAWKI. THEN THEY WILL LISTEN.
Nothing like a captive audience :) I guess, what I am attempting to do is take this a step further than what you are suggesting. Get yourself squared by all means and become less dependent on the system, while at the same time engage "the enemy". Dave

Silver Shield | 02-19-2008 03:39 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" DAVE, THOUGHT OF YOUR POST... <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/l7KHUbuhgpQ&rel=1&border=0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/l7KHUbuhgpQ&rel=1&border=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent"width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Dave | 02-20-2008 12:30 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shield (Post 974508) DAVE, THOUGHT OF YOUR POST...
Haha, that was great! :) Interesting times are coming our way my friend. Dave

Prometheus | 02-20-2008 08:51 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shield (Post 974508) DAVE, THOUGHT OF YOUR POST...
:applause_ I love it! :applause_

Codger | 02-21-2008 02:18 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" This has the potential to be the most interesting thread on GIM. Civil Disobedience is harder than many imagine. I think many of us on GIM have jobs and family and dealing with the potential consequences would be disastrous. What if you are arrested? This will appear on a background check and could be used to bar you from employment or housing. Can you afford to lose even a week's wages? How will this hurt my family? Will my suffering change anything? Will theirs? Is it worth it? Or, at what point is it worth it? These are some basic questions I ask of myself regularly. For the most part, my family responsibilties prohibit me from reasonably taking part in acts of civil disobedience. I have limited myself to preparing my family, helping my friends, partaking in local politics, possibly the Paul march on Washington, and writing letters/emails. There may be a time when that can be reasonably elevated for a more immanant threat. The only other thing I can do is spend my money wisely and sparingly.

Dave | 02-22-2008 08:50 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Codger (Post 977479) This has the potential to be the most interesting thread on GIM. Civil Disobedience is harder than many imagine. I think many of us on GIM have jobs and family and dealing with the potential consequences would be disastrous. What if you are arrested? This will appear on a background check and could be used to bar you from employment or housing. Can you afford to lose even a week's wages? How will this hurt my family? Will my suffering change anything? Will theirs? Is it worth it? Or, at what point is it worth it? These are some basic questions I ask of myself regularly. For the most part, my family responsibilties prohibit me from reasonably taking part in acts of civil disobedience. I have limited myself to preparing my family, helping my friends, partaking in local politics, possibly the Paul march on Washington, and writing letters/emails. There may be a time when that can be reasonably elevated for a more immanant threat. The only other thing I can do is spend my money wisely and sparingly.
Codger, this is exactly where I want to go with this, "SMART Plays". Here is some advice from E.G. Griffin about civil disobedience: Quote:
"It is praiseworthy to take a stand on principle and be willing to go to prison, if necessary, for what we believe is right, but this resolve needs to be weighed against other possibilities. If other options are open to us, we need to consider if any of them might be more effective for our purposes. In other words, we need to see if there are things we can do out of prison that would be more effective in promoting our fight against (the income tax) than what we can do in prison. If there were, then it would be foolish to choose the option with the lesser probability of success. That would be like throwing ourselves into the teeth of enemy machine-gun fire when we had the option of moving unseen through a gully and attacking from behind. Yes, it would be courageous to sacrifice one?s self in a frontal attack. But, if there were a better option, it would be an irrational act of suicide and a lost chance for victory."
We need to figure out what works, and what we ALL can participate in WITHOUT coordination. This is leaderless action at it's finest! Dave

Silver Shield | 02-22-2008 09:32 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" CODGER- I TRIED TO TOUCH THIS SUBJECT, GENTLY:wink:, WITH MY THREAD BOOMERS, PAY BACK IS A BITCH. YOU ARE RIGHT EACH GENERATION HAS A ROLE IN THE REVOLUTION. A FAMILY MAN, OR A BUSINESS OWNER IS NOT GOING TO PUT HIS LIFE'S WORK OR HIS FAMILY AT RISK CONFRONTING TPTB. THE VISIBLE REVOLUTION IS ALWAYS WITH THE UP AND COMING GEMERATION, THE MILLENIAL GENERATION IN THIS CASE. THIS IS THE GENERATION WITH NOTHING TO LOSE AND EVERYTHING TO GAIN. THEY ARE NOT FULLY HOOKED INTO THE MATRIX. BUT THEY CANNOT WIN BY THEMSELVES. I THINK THAT IS WHY THE 60'S REVOLUTION FAILED, THERE WAS NO INTERGENERATIONAL SUPPORT. READ BELOW AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK. Default Re: BOOMERS, PAYBACK IS A BITCH. It's taken a day but I think something good is starting to come from this thread. I think we are all unique individuals of our own generation. We have awoken from our NWO slumber. We are all going to have unique roles in the hard days coming. None of us really are going to pack up and head to the hills by ourselves.(except TN Andy) I am trying to get all of you to mentally prepare for whats to come. Are you prepared for when all the people you have ever talked about the issues on this board comes to you looking for help, answers, and support? What are you going to do after you say "I Told You So." Most likely, where ever you are when the SHTF is where you will be for the duration of the event. The greatest weapon and support is your family and friends. As for the actual fighting the NWO every generation has its own strengths we should be aware of and hone them as these days approach. Only together can we win. My four biggest heros right now are from four different generations. Each generation has different ways, but combined they are waking people up. Greatest Generation- RON PAUL He has provided the wisdom and patience for the freedom movement. Baby Boomer Generation- PETER SCHIFF He has provided money and technical expertise on the fiscal aspect of the battle. Generation X- ALEX JONES He has studied and is the most outspoken fighter of the NWO. Millenial Generation-There are actually four guys that are my kind of people. LUKE RUDKOWSKI and the GUYS FROM LOOSE CHANGE. This generation is the the actual boots on the ground and in their face because they have nothing to loose and everything to gain. Each Generation can only play their own role. Are you ready for yours? Read my thread the EDUCATION OF SILVER SHIELD for some good prep books.

Dave | 02-22-2008 09:54 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Good thoughts Silver.. I truly believe the Internet offers us a chance at this intergenerational coordination that we didn't have before. Honestly, how often do you post and reply to people you truly don't know their age, background, or race? This is going to be the key to our success and I already see it manifesting in local meetup groups I intend. People of every type coming together that I would never imagine coming together under ordinary circumstance. This is why I feel this discussion is important and that the timing is right. Dave

BellevueBully | 02-22-2008 10:17 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 978632) Good thoughts Silver.. I truly believe the Internet offers us a chance at this intergenerational coordination that we didn't have before. Honestly, how often do you post and reply to people you truly don't know their age, background, or race? This is going to be the key to our success and I already see it manifesting in local meetup groups I intend. People of every type coming together that I would never imagine coming together under ordinary circumstance. This is why I feel this discussion is important and that the timing is right. Dave
Good on�a Dave. Should be a very interesting thread. I will be following.....

Dave | 02-22-2008 12:39 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" BellevueBully, Indeed! My local Meetup is about 400 strong and growing, which is not bad considering our city population. If we include meetups within 50 miles we are closing in on about 750+ members. This thread encompasses a topic of debate in our meetup so I will be sure to post some of the methods we think will be effective of course keeping in mind the advice E.G. Griffin gives (posted above). To be honest, we are focused on increasing our numbers so we plan to find "creative" ways of reaching people through their sheep-membranes to the individuals inside. Our second focus will be challenging the PTB once we feel we have the right groundwork laid. Our strategy is assuming this will take years if not decades to accomplish so we plan to maintain sustained and every growing pressure until our goals are reached both locally, State wide and Nationally. I would like to see what other meetups are doing plus share our ideas and results. Dave

Codger | 02-22-2008 01:13 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shield (Post 978616) Read my thread the EDUCATION OF SILVER SHIELD for some good prep books.
I've seen your reading list. Good reads but pretty standard. I'm pretty comfortable with my level of understanding and education though I am always hungry for more. I'm a little different than many on this board. I don't think TS will HTF. Let's say TPTB exist. If I were one of them I would be pretty aware of people's movements and would do everything I could to maintain order and peace and with it, my station. If the people push together for freedom, they will get it. It may not be the ideal and pure freedom that we talk about but it will be better. Civil war does no good for the wise leader. Much of what we do here is tilting at windmills, but there is a solid core of complaints based around our depleted constitution that that will be addressed. This just takes time and education. Quit isolating our thoughts to boards like this and start having the conversation. And people will take you more seriously if you don't talk about TPTB and the NWO. Use reason and facts people will begin to see. When that happens, our party system will change as will our country.

Codger | 02-22-2008 01:30 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" I'm going to post my thoughts on these: Don't like the school system, homeschool. Or just take an active role in your child's education and encourage freethinking whenever posible. Whatever you do, don't shortchange your child. Homeschool if you are capable. Don't like the Federal Reserve, buy gold and silver. Or manage your assets to feed in to the system as little as possible. And talk about the economics of the system, not the nefarious plot of the Rothschilds. Don't like property taxes and local government, move. Go to every tax meeting and voice your opposition and know the facts so you don't look like a separatist ninny. Don't like MSM, cancel your cable. Agree completely. Don't like consumerism, buy less and better spent. Agree completely Don't like war,do all of the above and don't join the military. And encourage open conversation about the point of war. Is it just? I think the best we can do as individuals is to talk to people. And I mean to them, not at them. Ask important questions that will give rise to reflection. Socratic method is the best way in the world to get your idea accross. It is non-confrontational and allows you to genuinely ask someone their throughts and then open a dialog about them.

Silver Shield | 02-22-2008 05:48 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" CODGER- WHEN I FIRST WOKE UP I WOULD TALK TO EVERYONE ABOUT IT BUT I WOULD GET GLAZED EYES IN MINUTES. I HAVE TONED IT DOWN A BIT. I DIRECT THEM TO WATCH FREEDOM TO FASCISM, OR LOOSE CHANGE. WHEN THEY COME BACK THEN THEY WANT TO KNOW MORE. IT IS SO MUCH EASIER AND EFFECTIVE.

buff01 | 02-22-2008 06:46 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shield (Post 972853) Don't like the school system, homeschool. Don't like the Federal Reserve, buy gold and silver. Don't like property taxes and local government, move. Don't like MSM, cancel your cable. Don't like consumerism, buy less and better spent. Don't like war,do all of the above and don't join the military.
This is exactly what I am doing. Flying under the radar is the best option to live one's life as they wish, in my opinion. BRAVO! Add Bastiat's "The Law" to your reading list... read it for free HERE

Codger | 02-22-2008 10:25 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shield (Post 979313) CODGER- WHEN I FIRST WOKE UP I WOULD TALK TO EVERYONE ABOUT IT BUT I WOULD GET GLAZED EYES IN MINUTES. I HAVE TONED IT DOWN A BIT. I DIRECT THEM TO WATCH FREEDOM TO FASCISM, OR LOOSE CHANGE. WHEN THEY COME BACK THEN THEY WANT TO KNOW MORE. IT IS SO MUCH EASIER AND EFFECTIVE.
When you hear a sheep talking about an issue and their knowledge base is made up entirely of sheep-food, just ask a pointed question, listen to their answer and then walk away. Or just say "Gee, that doesn't seem right. I think we must be missing something. I wonder what it is?" Then walk away. I've had people come back to my office a week after a pointed question tell me all about what it was that we missed and how people need to wake up. This happened with the last Fed rate cuts and when after my questions he came back and proceded to tell me about the danger of our devaluing currency. It's fun, you don't look like a kook, it's easier, and best of all, it's non-confrontational. Also, I finally got to watch the video you posted. Two thumbs up. I'm forwarding the link.

Unclad Lad | 02-24-2008 08:17 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" I'm not ready. I still carry too much debt. My skills are too few, and still too book-oriented. I don't have enough supplies. I have no place to go if I can't stay here. I'm frightened. Not because I'm a sheep, but because I'm aware of the state of things, and aware that I'm not ready, and that I'm screwed if I lose my job, or one of many other things happen. I frequent this place to learn, to learn from others who live The Life, who've purchased the land and tilled it, and bled while making mistakes--so that I won't unnecessarily make those same mistakes. And in as much as I have interacted with so many here, I can't say that I trust anyone here, nor could anyone say that of me. I am not ready. BUT-- I will continue to follow this thread, to learn how help others even as I continue to help myself.

buff01 | 02-24-2008 09:40 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 981396) I'm not ready. I still carry too much debt. My skills are too few, and still too book-oriented. I don't have enough supplies. I have no place to go if I can't stay here. I'm frightened. Not because I'm a sheep, but because I'm aware of the state of things, and aware that I'm not ready, and that I'm screwed if I lose my job, or one of many other things happen. I frequent this place to learn, to learn from others who live The Life, who've purchased the land and tilled it, and bled while making mistakes--so that I won't unnecessarily make those same mistakes. And in as much as I have interacted with so many here, I can't say that I trust anyone here, nor could anyone say that of me. I am not ready. BUT-- I will continue to follow this thread, to learn how help others even as I continue to help myself.
I am by no means ready myself, but-- at least you know what is possible in this world, and can mentally prepare. If you have only one preparation that puts you ahead of hundreds of millions. PS. Worrying about things beyond your control is wasted energy. Just do what you can when you can!

BellevueBully | 02-24-2008 11:07 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 981396) I'm not ready. I still carry too much debt. My skills are too few, and still too book-oriented. I don't have enough supplies. I have no place to go if I can't stay here. I'm frightened. Not because I'm a sheep, but because I'm aware of the state of things, and aware that I'm not ready, and that I'm screwed if I lose my job, or one of many other things happen. I frequent this place to learn, to learn from others who live The Life, who've purchased the land and tilled it, and bled while making mistakes--so that I won't unnecessarily make those same mistakes. And in as much as I have interacted with so many here, I can't say that I trust anyone here, nor could anyone say that of me. I am not ready. BUT-- I will continue to follow this thread, to learn how help others even as I continue to help myself.
Warrented concerns! I am fortunate due to locale and upbringing (but mostly grace) that I could get thru dark times, but many are not. My personal feeling is that location and lifestyle are critical to surviving thru instability in the world. Fortunately, for those who are in more vulnerable conditions (big city) and who are aware of what is coming down the pipe,they have the time to change thier current situations into something more condusive to maintaining any sort of lifestyle if and wtshtf. I think for many this can seem like a huge hurdle to overcome, but let me offer a perspective, fwiw.. From my point of view, a huge change in one's 'security' can be obtained by doing as little as moving to a rural location and taking a modest job. With that generally comes cheaper real estate/rent, less expensive lifestyle (one vehicle vs. two or more, lower taxes, cheaper entertainment, etc.....) and most importantly, affords an easier environment to meet others in the community and network resources if need be. I can imagine one might feel very isolated living in a large urban setting, especially if you were not raised there. I can think of at least a dozen towns within an hour of where I live that I would be happy to move to to get out of an urban environment. Of course, all of this hinges on a effective decisiveness on the part of the participant and the fortitude to execute. I just think that it is important to remind others that these opportunities exist and they do have options. You just might not be able to have your cake, and eat it too.......

Noble | 02-24-2008 11:44 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 978585) This is leaderless action at it's finest! Dave
Sorry Dave, no such animal... you're it.

Unclad Lad | 02-25-2008 01:34 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Worrying about things beyond your control is wasted energy. Just do what you can when you can!
Agreed. That's why I don't get caught up in the various conspiracies and TPTB--there is nothing I can do about them, even if they're accurate. Part of the problem of preparing, though, is that you become aware of so many things for which, prior to taking the Red Pill, you would have written off as "beyond my control"--like electricity, clean water, or protection from criminals and looters. I can mitigate the effects of not having those, and other things. But I also become aware of so much more, and realize how woefully unprepared I am. Of course anybody who says he is totally prepared is delusional. I'm just a long way from where I want to be.

BellevueBully | 02-25-2008 08:24 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad Of course anybody who says he is totally prepared is delusional. I'm just a long way from where I want to be.
I would have to disagree. There are many farmers and country folk who would hardly notice a financial depression. A police state or martial law is another story......we're all screwed in that situation.

Dave | 02-25-2008 08:38 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 981615) Agreed. That's why I don't get caught up in the various conspiracies and TPTB--there is nothing I can do about them, even if they're accurate. Part of the problem of preparing, though, is that you become aware of so many things for which, prior to taking the Red Pill, you would have written off as "beyond my control"--like electricity, clean water, or protection from criminals and looters. I can mitigate the effects of not having those, and other things. But I also become aware of so much more, and realize how woefully unprepared I am. Of course anybody who says he is totally prepared is delusional. I'm just a long way from where I want to be.
Do you have any dependents to concern about? Your feeling of immobilization because of this debt in the system is by design. There are scores of people in your shoes and I wouldn't be 100% truthful if I didn't say I am dealing with my own issues though I have made some basic preparations and have been of the mind since 1997. The best thing you can do besides get hands on experience is meet people who share your background but this will take time do to trust issues in developing these type of relationships. I personally have a great friend who I talk about these very issues on a regular basis. This sort of support network is important if not for strategic reasons but for morale. Also, I want you to read this quote once more: "It is praiseworthy to take a stand on principle and be willing to go to prison, if necessary, for what we believe is right, but this resolve needs to be weighed against other possibilities. If other options are open to us, we need to consider if any of them might be more effective for our purposes. In other words, we need to see if there are things we can do out of prison that would be more effective in promoting our fight against (the income tax) than what we can do in prison. If there were, then it would be foolish to choose the option with the lesser probability of success. That would be like throwing ourselves into the teeth of enemy machine-gun fire when we had the option of moving unseen through a gully and attacking from behind. Yes, it would be courageous to sacrifice one?s self in a frontal attack. But, if there were a better option, it would be an irrational act of suicide and a lost chance for victory." There are ways to be effective even in your position so stay tuned and read the debate in this thread closely. Shake your feeling of immobilization and hopelessness and realize on the end of the day you CAN choose your own path and you have not learned the truth too late. Simply being aware of the potential coming events will make you more aware of your surroundings and many times more effective at surviving. However, the purpose of this thread is to hopefully prevent the potential SHTF scenario by taking action now. If you are truly as concerned about not being prepared for WTSHTF then you should be of the most motivated here to see it doesn't happen by taking action. There really are two strategies; either wait for TSTHTF and change the system afterwards or change it before SHTF. I would personally prefer the latter though I am sure I am not speaking for everyone here. Dave

Dave | 02-25-2008 08:42 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble (Post 981551) Sorry Dave, no such animal... you're it.
Errr, I am the "Original Poster" in this thread but that is about all of the leadership I will claim. One thing I would like to point out, that I am sure this sort of discussion is being had by hundreds if not thousands of other groups of people. I have not coordinated with them, though I am aware of other discussions like this. Arguably someone had to be the first, but that is always the case in any revolution for change. Though many people will pick up the fight as they best see fit and carry on in their own ways. Dave

Dave | 02-25-2008 08:46 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by BellevueBully (Post 981839) I would have to disagree. There are many farmers and country folk who would hardly notice a financial depression. A police state or martial law is another story......we're all screwed in that situation.
I agree this is all perspective and dependent on the situation. However, that could be the point Unclad Lad was trying to make. There are too many possible scenarios to prepare for them all. However, I would argue the best type of preparedness is state of mind and willingness to do what it takes. Even the prepared have to be willing to survive. Dave

BellevueBully | 02-25-2008 08:55 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 981877) However, I would argue the best type of preparedness is state of mind and willingness to do what it takes. Even the prepared have to be willing to survive. Dave
This is the sound of a hammer striking the head of the nail. :applause_

Dave | 02-25-2008 09:14 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Let me update those that are interested in some actions my group is taking. We have decided not officially but by consensus to join the Republican Liberty Caucus to move forward our political goals. These goals are of different degrees: 1. Low hanging fruit, we are running for unopposed positions that allow us to make changes even at the lowest levels. Let me give you an example. We were recently successful in grabbing a majority in a five county Water Management District. Once the majority was established, the board met and disbanded the ENTIRE budget and any future budgets. They took the monies from the current years budget and made it available to tax paying citizens to pickup as a refund check of their portion of the budget. This wasn't a large check but was symbolic of reducing government and wasted money. Other positions to consider would be state level office, city council positions, school board, mayor if feasible, sheriff, or even dog catcher if it is electable! The KEY to our success is to focus on CUTTING revenues to the government. When you cut revenues you REDUCE the size of government, period. This can be accomplished through more than just running for office but through pushing legislation that will limit taxes and/or make it more difficult for public officials to raise taxes. In other words, CUT OFF THEIR FOOD SUPPLY. 2. As I mentioned above, CUT the food supply. Push legislation that will limit government revenues. Without revenues government have to reduce budgets in the long run which of course reduces their sphere of power. 3. Public education. This is probably more so the heart of this thread. Currently ideas on this topic are: a) Run for high profile positions. Even though you may not win the election this is an opportunity to bring your debate to public forum. Look at what Ron Paul was able to accomplish with his presidential run. Our group is currently eyeballing a US Congressional District in our state. b) The other side of this coin is a little civil discourse. Sometimes if you pull public stunts you will get the right type of attention and sometimes not. This needs to be carefully weighed based on your local political makeup and mentalities. I will contribute ideas here in future posts. I personally have found a lot of common ground with people in my local Ron Paul meetup. I would recommend if you haven't already to lookup your local meetup and feel the members out. You might be surprised who you find and what they are doing. My meetup is growing even though the primary has come and gone in our state. To me, this is encouraging. Ironically, someone recently joined our meetup stating they wanted to know "what needs to be done next." This person could be any of you, in a figurative sense of course. More thoughts to come, Dave

BellevueBully | 02-25-2008 09:34 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Dave, Thanks for the update.....very ambitious.:applause_ Let me throw this out there to get some perspective on the diversity of all our situations......what is your current situation, what do you see happening in the medium term and how do you plan to deal with it? (in very general terms). I'll start.... Location........1.5 hrs from big city, rural outskirts of town population 100k. Large country lot with large garden and local access to game animals, fish and wood. Also own large tract of land in very rural community with ability to self sustain (6 hours from current location). Crystal ball.......5 years out, a major shift in world economics, possibly a financial global depression and civil unrest. Police state possible. Global tension, possibly (read probably) extensive region of war. All in all, much more unstable than now, but not necessarily apocalyptic. Plan of attack.....keep debt low/non-existant, protect the value of currently held wealth and ride out any instability on existing property. If situation becomes too severe to ride out where I am now (mostly a loss of job) I will move to rural lot and do what is required (farm, barter, hunt, fish, lay low and most importantly pray. I think we tend to become very ethnocentric (think everywhere else in the world is exactly like our lives) and we lose perspective of all options we have at our disposal. What I am very curious to know is what someone in a area like L.A. or N.Y. plans to do. Dave, I hope you don't mind this post....I'm not trying to hijack. If so, please pm me and I will delete.

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Gold & Silver Forum - "Smart Plays"

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- - "Smart Plays" (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=237232)

Dave | 02-25-2008 11:32 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by BellevueBully (Post 981940) Dave, I hope you don't mind this post....I'm not trying to hijack. If so, please pm me and I will delete.
The direction of your post does go in a little of a different direction, BUT, I do believe the two topics are related. I have always believed, your home-front needs to be squared away in order to be an effective long-term player in changing the "system" beyond a "SHTF scenario". However, I stick to my original assertion that I would prefer us to prevent this potential outcome altogether, which is the primary focus of this thread. This is where I want to challenge your train of thought. I would speculate that 95% of those planning for survival are anticipating the likelihood of a GRID-DOWN scenario. In this situation all power and utilities will be virtually 100% non-existent leading to severe civil unrest and frankly TEOTWAWKI on a global scale. However, not many consider the GRID-UP possibility and what that would mean to their strategy. In a GRID-UP situation, which is what I am leaning towards as a likelihood more and more, power and utilities will exist along with communications. With communications, TPTB can run effective propaganda allowing them to control the masses. This will keep most of the population remaining in a suburban and urban setting leaving a small percentage of the population in the rural areas. The suburban and urban areas will likely, with great ease, be placed under martial law, BUT it will not be called that. Propaganda will lead people to believe this is the only way they will not starve and to prevent chaos, therefore they will be accepting of the "higher police presence" and loss of liberties. Like a lot of our Liberties, they will not be lost over night but over years, which is why I believe the PTB will not allow a magnificent collapse but a controlled collapse to happen. This in my opinion could be a potential disadvantage to those in rural settings since they will be low in density and easier to target individually while they're demises NEVER make it to the controlled media sources and what does get out will probably be framed like this, "those crazy food-hording survivalist are terrorist anyhow and deserved what they got." I think many survivalist over simplify they magnitude of the problem in that the enemy is not just civil unrest and lack of food and supplies but the Powers That Be, who are behind the system. They will not give up control easily and will likely use a collapse to increase their control. Look at our military in Iraq today, what is their number one goal? Restore the grid and limit terrorist attacks, and why? To control the masses and give them perceived security. They are grooming yet another nation of good little consumers to become indebted to the system. This is why change is important. Do you follow my logic? Dave

Silver Shield | 02-25-2008 12:26 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" UNCLAD LAD- I DON'T THINK ANYONE IS READY. BEING AWARE AND MENTALLY PREPPED WILL BE GOOD ENOUGH TO SEE YOUR WAY THROUGH IT. YOU WILL KNOW ENOUGH TO STAY ONE STEP AHEAD OF THE REST. I LEARNED IN THE MARINES IF YOU STAY AHEAD OF MOST, THE DRILL INSTUCTORS ONLY PICKED ON THE WEAK. STAY AWARE, STAY HEALTHY, AND STAY AHEAD OF MOST.

BellevueBully | 02-25-2008 12:34 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 982098) This is why change is important. Do you follow my logic? Dave
Fully. Well thought out and very plausible. We are all in the same boat in as much as we can only speculate on what shape things will truly take. I, like you, believe that a slow motion train wreck will facilitate more control while stemming civil unrest. Case in point....recently in Toronto one of the local politicians suggested one of the worst neighbourhoods that is gang infested be patrolled by the Cdn. army. What was the response from the public???Great Idea, it'll be sooooo safe here, please come and protect us. Yup, I hear that hammer striking again..... Thanks for your effort on this post. Great leadership.:applause_

Unclad Lad | 02-26-2008 12:45 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
However, I would argue the best type of preparedness is state of mind and willingness to do what it takes. Even the prepared have to be willing to survive.
Oh, I'm certainly better prepared than most of the population (and as my first post indicates, I'm not a mall-ninja/Chairborne-Ranger with delusions of grandeur :wink:). For a grid-up scenario, which is where I believe we're headed, at least to start, I have a good mindset. I've been working on "living poor", that is, living well below my means, so as to pay off the bills and to be ready when "poor" is all I've got. There is a plan. As for dependents, I have none, which is both a strength and a weakness. I'm the only one in my extended family who seems to be preparing--it isn't even on the horizon. That's one area I intend to improve. So I'll be watching this thread (which I suspect will grow into its own forum), and I will participate when I can contribute.

Dave | 02-26-2008 09:17 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 983113) Oh, I'm certainly better prepared than most of the population (and as my first post indicates, I'm not a mall-ninja/Chairborne-Ranger with delusions of grandeur :wink:). For a grid-up scenario, which is where I believe we're headed, at least to start, I have a good mindset. I've been working on "living poor", that is, living well below my means, so as to pay off the bills and to be ready when "poor" is all I've got. There is a plan. As for dependents, I have none, which is both a strength and a weakness. I'm the only one in my extended family who seems to be preparing--it isn't even on the horizon. That's one area I intend to improve. So I'll be watching this thread (which I suspect will grow into its own forum), and I will participate when I can contribute.
Unclad Lad, The negative of dependents is obviously your survival plan has to be based less on mobility and more on being able to stay in one spot and under the radar. The positive thing about dependents is they help motivate you since they depend on you literally for their lives. You will evaluate things more carefully so that you don't make a mistake that could cost your life and potentially theirs in time. The topic of "mental preparedness and the desire to survive" reminds me of a fictional book I read that was based on a GRID-DOWN scenario. The interesting element of this book is that the main character was thrusted in to this situation without having made prior preparations. Here is a link to the PDF of the book: http://www.cxp.com/username/LightsOut-Current.pdf - Enjoy. Back to the topic at hand, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, there are a lot reasons why I believe we simply just need to prevent things from deteriorating to societal collapse. Let me give you an analogy that might make sense. A lot of people look forward to collapse and mayhem almost the same way someone might desire sex with a sexually attractive counterpart. They pursue this person blinded by their lust for the relatively short moments of sexual gratification never thinking of the lifelong consequences it may have until the deed is done. The moral of the story is even though you may spend years if not decades preparing for societal collapse your true focus should always be to prevent it from happening and focus on changing your community today rather than tomorrow or before it is too late. Preventing collapse and changing our political system is and should be our focus, however, it is PRUDENT to prepare in case we need to sustain ourselves through a collapse. On the end of the day regardless of our efforts, we still may be called to stand against tyranny and at that time all bets are off. Dave

Dave | 02-26-2008 09:42 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by BellevueBully (Post 982189) Fully. Well thought out and very plausible. We are all in the same boat in as much as we can only speculate on what shape things will truly take. I, like you, believe that a slow motion train wreck will facilitate more control while stemming civil unrest. Case in point....recently in Toronto one of the local politicians suggested one of the worst neighbourhoods that is gang infested be patrolled by the Cdn. army. What was the response from the public???Great Idea, it'll be sooooo safe here, please come and protect us. Yup, I hear that hammer striking again..... Thanks for your effort on this post. Great leadership.:applause_
I hear that, "slow motion train wreck", Indeed! You can't help to but stare in disbelief! What are things like in your local community from a political aspect? Have you joined or met with any local Liberty minded political activists? As I mentioned above, at the very least you will make some great contacts with like minded folks. However, trust shouldn't come easy. If they are truly on the level they will appreciate your skepticism. Dave

BellevueBully | 02-26-2008 10:14 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 983369) I hear that, "slow motion train wreck", Indeed! You can't help to but stare in disbelief! What are things like in your local community from a political aspect? Have you joined or met with any local Liberty minded political activists? As I mentioned above, at the very least you will make some great contacts with like minded folks. However, trust shouldn't come easy. If they are truly on the level they will appreciate your skepticism. Dave
Things in my community are much like a pasture on a mutton farm. Most just keep grazing away as they unknowingly wander closer and closer to the slaughter room. Hey, the malls are open, credit is cheap, Brittany requires attention, the hockey game is on and I gotta work some overtime. Lots of distractions. Plus I think a lot of people get overwhelmed with the enormity of the problem, even though they might be aware. However, many of my closest friends and numerous aquaintances are awakened to the fact that the world as we know it is steeped in filth and corruption. And , it does seem people are becoming aware of this fact, but the resolve to deal with it has not manifest. Truth be known, when most of my close friends and their families are together, much of the conversation reverts to 'these' topics. I recently attended an anti SPP and NAU protest at Queens Park in Toronto. Around 250 individuals (not nearly enough but better than nothing). Hopefully we got the attention of some of the public and at the very least inspired them to find out what the SPP and NAU are. It sounds like you have been very engaged!

Codger | 02-26-2008 02:33 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 982098) This is where I want to challenge your train of thought. I would speculate that 95% of those planning for survival are anticipating the likelihood of a GRID-DOWN scenario. In this situation all power and utilities will be virtually 100% non-existent leading to severe civil unrest and frankly TEOTWAWKI on a global scale. However, not many consider the GRID-UP possibility and what that would mean to their strategy. In a GRID-UP situation, which is what I am leaning towards as a likelihood more and more, power and utilities will exist along with communications. With communications, TPTB can run effective propaganda allowing them to control the masses. This will keep most of the population remaining in a suburban and urban setting leaving a small percentage of the population in the rural areas. The suburban and urban areas will likely, with great ease, be placed under martial law, BUT it will not be called that. Propaganda will lead people to believe this is the only way they will not starve and to prevent chaos, therefore they will be accepting of the "higher police presence" and loss of liberties. Like a lot of our Liberties, they will not be lost over night but over years, which is why I believe the PTB will not allow a magnificent collapse but a controlled collapse to happen. This in my opinion could be a potential disadvantage to those in rural settings since they will be low in density and easier to target individually while they're demises NEVER make it to the controlled media sources and what does get out will probably be framed like this, "those crazy food-hording survivalist are terrorist anyhow and deserved what they got." I think many survivalist over simplify they magnitude of the problem in that the enemy is not just civil unrest and lack of food and supplies but the Powers That Be, who are behind the system. They will not give up control easily and will likely use a collapse to increase their control. Look at our military in Iraq today, what is their number one goal? Restore the grid and limit terrorist attacks, and why? To control the masses and give them perceived security. They are grooming yet another nation of good little consumers to become indebted to the system. This is why change is important. Do you follow my logic? Dave
Dave, I think this is the first time I have agreed with someone this much on this website regarding some possible future scenarios. Very well said sir.

Dave | 02-26-2008 10:39 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Codger (Post 983853) Dave, I think this is the first time I have agreed with someone this much on this website regarding some possible future scenarios. Very well said sir.
I have learned a simple formula in predicting what I believe the future holds. Take the most sinister possible use of the law today that will be upheld by government and accepted by the public as the most likely path towards tyranny. Why cause commotion when you can achieve the same thing in just a slightly longer period of time? In a decade from now, government will condone actions with public acceptance that we today will find unacceptable breaches of our liberty. This has been the way of things for decades in this country and for no reason that I can see will this change. Change will only occur with the same consistency in reverse and like any large mass in motion, it will take consistent pressure in the opposite direction for long periods of time before this mass accelerates from tyranny back to liberty once again. Naturally, this period of time can be shortened with more pressure (people) working towards this goal which is the primary purpose of this thread. This country is truly run by active minorities. Dave

Dave | 02-28-2008 08:44 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" An update on my local politics.. Last night we met with State level Board members of the RLC (Republican Liberty Caucus) and let me tell you, I am pleased with the organization and it's approach. Before I go in to details, I would STRONGLY encourage everyone reading this thread to look in to the RLC and see if there is a local chapter and if not how to go about forming one (Go to rlc.org not a great looking site but that will change). A member of my local meet-up has accepted a position on the State level board and I personally am considering accept a board position at the county level. As I mentioned before, our surrounding 50 mile meet-up population is nearly 1,000 members strong so we are hoping to convert 20-30% of them to the RLC. The RLC was co-founded by Ron Paul and is VERY inline with his beliefs. The RLC is a LIBERTARIAN leaning organization operating within the GOP. They are very lean and streamlined and utilize the GOP infrastructure to get it's message out. I will post more information at a later time as I am pressed for time but wanted to get this out to you. Oh one more thing, I was particularly encouraged when the RLC State Board member referred to us as State citizens. I couldn't help to think of Thomas Jefferson and his sense of pride being called a Virginian not that I am from Virginia but you know what I mean. I truly feel when we can consider ourselves proud Sovereign Citizens of our States and not US Citizens we will be close to our goals. More to come, Dave

Unclad Lad | 02-28-2008 11:21 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" TPTB. I can't worry about them. First, if they control things to such an extent, then I was targeted the very first time I posted here (and on many other sites). Secondly, nothing I can do will affect them. I have to focus on the local scene.

Dave | 02-28-2008 12:14 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclad Lad (Post 986947) TPTB. I can't worry about them. First, if they control things to such an extent, then I was targeted the very first time I posted here (and on many other sites). Secondly, nothing I can do will affect them. I have to focus on the local scene.
Indeed. There are many people who "think" they are below the radar when they really are not. The only thing we have going for us is there is enough of us to keep them busy. Dave

Dave | 03-07-2008 10:57 AM
Re: "Smart Plays" - Update I just wanted to share a success story in the making in Florida State politics. Currently, a group of us are promoting the TPA (Taxpayers Protection Amendment) in the State of Florida. Here is a little information on the TPA: http://www.americansforprosperity.or...=4576&state=fl Here is a blow by blow of what has happened over the past two days: 1) Wednesday we got last minute notice that the "Florida Taxation and Budget Reform Commission" (TBRC) was meeting Thursday to vote on several items one of which is the TPA. 2) As of Wednesday evening, we had confirmed 6 commissioner votes (four strong YES and two converted to YES) which is the minimum of what we would need to get the TPA on the ballot for the November election. 3) Upon arriving in Tallahassee it was discovered we only had four votes. Apparently two of our strong YES votes were turned to NOs. Bad news for us. 4) Since TPA supporters outnumber those opposed, and were able to speak in support of it, we turned two additional NO votes to YES votes allowing the TPA to pass the TBRC subcommittee. (YAY!) PHYSICAL PRESENCE makes the difference! If you ever questioned getting involved in local politics this should dash your doubts! 5) We are gearing for the full commission meeting in a few weeks. We intend to keep the pressure on plus send letters to the editor throughout the state and of course FLOOD the TBRC with positive emails endorsing the TPA from us tax paying citizens :D Folks, THIS NEEDS TO PASS IN EVERY STATE! An amendment like the TPA helps cut revenues to State and Local government and THIS is the only way to reduce government and increase liberty. All of you SHTF worriers, this should have your attention if you truly don't want the economic collapse to happen. By the way, I am not exempt from the SHTF group but I have to DO SOMETHING to say I tried to prevent it! Florida is the 17th LARGEST economy in the WORLD and 3rd largest the the US! If we can do this hear, the impact should be felt by all states. This is important and deserves all of your attention. I will report back after the full committee meeting and let you know if we were successful getting the amendment on the November ballot. More to come, Dave

wallew | 03-07-2008 03:08 PM
Re: "Smart Plays" Ok, this all sounds like Germany around 1935. SS, you said: Civil Disobedience is harder than many imagine. I think many of us on GIM have jobs and family and dealing with the potential consequences would be disastrous. What if you are arrested? This will appear on a background check and could be used to bar you from employment or housing. Can you afford to lose even a week's wages? How will this hurt my family? Will my suffering change anything? Will theirs? Is it worth it? Or, at what point is it worth it? I'm only using this as an example. I am NOT attempting a flame job or anything. See, back in 1930's Germany, most of the Jews would get together and 'discuss' what was happening at the moment. They ALL agreed it was bad, but NO ONE thought it would go the way it went. Right up until TPTB (Nazis) smashed their store fronts and their stores, told them to pack ONE bag. Most were never seen again. About losing our freedom a little at a time. Folks, this has been going on AT LEAST since 1920. NFA (1934), GCA (1968), AWB (1992 - sunsetted 2002?). Plus deficit spending. Plus Federal Reserve Bank. Plus, Plus, Plus... You ALL KNOW we are being SLOWY BOILED as our rights are being taken away. WE ARE THE CURRENT DAY 'JEWS'. IE, people who MUST BE DEALT WITH for these plans to be successful. You will KNOW we are in deep doo when the Fed Gov demands our guns in return for food and other services. EVERY DICTATORSHIP STAARTS WITH THE CONFISCATION OF FIREARMS. And folks, that's coming sooner rather than later. We had a 'trial run' in New Orleans in 2005 right after Katrina. A lot of people talked about different groups like Blackwater picking on some people. Strangely enough, you NEVER saw Blackwater enter ANY neighborhood that posted the signs say "YOU LOOT, WE SHOOT" type of thing. NOT ONE. That's where we are going. Sooner rather than later. Are YOU ready?

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