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electric-amish | 01-24-2009 06:55 PM
Home Depot Solar System question found this on Homedepot.com. I was wondering if there are people here that could tell me if its big enough to be a back up system for a furnace and refridge lights and computer. I don't know what to look for ref Output potential. Thanks electric-amish <!-- BEGIN IMPORT OF: /hdus/include/NewArrivalAdDisplayHTTPCache.jspf IMPORTED BY: HeaderHTTPCache.jspf -->http://www.homedepot.com/hdus/en_US/...alBugFinal.gif <SCRIPT src="http://www.homedepot.com/wcsstore/hdus/scripts/s_code.js" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>http://wasc.homedepot.com/b/ss/homed...hp=N&[AQE] <!-- SiteCatalyst code version: H.5.Copyright 1997-2006 Omniture, Inc. 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damoc | 01-24-2009 07:11 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question depends a lot on the battery storage you will have and also the duration you expect to be using it for.it is a small system and would run a laptop and some low wattage lights.to run any more than that you need to upgrade your inverter plus provide battery storage and also remember this setup is not going to quickly charge any large storage battery. so if for example you had enough storage to run your fridge for a day it may take 2 weeks to recharge it just as an example

TechGuy | 01-24-2009 07:12 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question 60 watts won't do you much. No way it is going to power your fridge or furnace. This setup would be ok if you added a battery or two for basic lighting, radio, and cell phone use, not much else. Figure on adding a couple of deep cycle batteries and you are at 400 bucks.

electric-amish | 01-24-2009 07:14 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Could I get say, two of them and some deep storage Batteries: mabey 4 or 5, and do what I'm thinking for 3 days. Thanks E-A

mayhem | 01-24-2009 07:15 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question You didn't say what you expect from it. There is no cheap solar solutions. You get what you pay for. That said I have a 3 panel small footprint similar to what Harbor Freight sells. It is there for running lights in the house (not many) if the power goes out. After hurricane Francis in 04 I was able to have some light in the house and run the 9v TV for updates without a problem. During the day we ran the genset. On the third day I had to charge the batteries using the genset as the solar couldn't keep up. So.................

silver_addiction | 01-24-2009 07:20 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Home Depot's prices on solar power are not good. And if you get it installed, their installers are even worse. Look in the phone book under solar or alternative energy. Most contractors will come giver you are price and go over how many panels/wattage/bateries you will need for your desired use free of charge.

electric-amish | 01-24-2009 07:23 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Looking around I found Amps x Volts=Watts So if I get 60watts and take it at 12Volts==5Amps Thats very Small, Vaccum Cleaner uses more Amps. How big the Battery system is will drive the show. Is it all about the batteries? E-A

TechGuy | 01-24-2009 07:27 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 1529820) Could I get say, two of them and some deep storage Batteries: mabey 4 or 5, and do what I'm thinking for 3 days. Thanks E-A
At that point you would be better rolling your own. We plan to do this as soon as we get our vehicles paid off. Visit homepower.com and read the mag. It will give you a much better idea of what you are looking for. Cheap charge controller: $50 150 watts of panel: $700 Cheap inverter, 1500 watt: $300 Now of course you can do 3x that for quality components, but I guarantee that is not what is in that kit. You need to get the wattage rating of your furnace and fridge, AmpsXVolts=watts. That will give you and idea of the inverter output you will use. Then we can work on how much solar and battery you will need.

TechGuy | 01-24-2009 07:29 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 1529831) Looking around I found Amps x Volts=Watts So if I get 60watts and take it at 12Volts==5Amps Thats very Small, Vaccum Cleaner uses more Amps. How big the Battery system is will drive the show. Is it all about the batteries? E-A
For output yes, it is between the inverter and batteries. That will get you running for X amount of time. How long you plan to use it will determine how much battery and how much panel you need.

Tn...Andy | 01-24-2009 07:30 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 1529831) Looking around I found Amps x Volts=Watts So if I get 60watts and take it at 12Volts==5Amps Thats very Small, Vaccum Cleaner uses more Amps. How big the Battery system is will drive the show. Is it all about the batteries? E-A
And the inverter.....the one with this one is only 175 watts.... Divide 175/120v and you get about 1.45 amps.....almost nothing. Other than a couple small lights ( and you better use LEDs at that ), and keep a cell charged, this system isn't worth much. You need several hundred watts of panels, AND something in the 1000 watt inverter range to do what you want. THEN the batteries become a factor in how long you can "do it".

TechGuy | 01-24-2009 07:35 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Ok, once you have a total of the watts. Now you need to covert to watt hours: P = watts x (daysXhours per day) P = watt-hours per month To convert to kWh P/1000 Then we can go to sizing a sytem.

electric-amish | 01-24-2009 07:40 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Is th AMP requirement or Watt info on the Furnace? I'll go look E-A

TechGuy | 01-24-2009 07:40 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question So lets do an example P = 500 watts x (30daysX10hours) P = 150000 watt-hours per month To convert to kWh 150000/1000 So you would need a solar system that could deliver 150kwh a month.

TechGuy | 01-24-2009 07:42 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Quote:
Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 1529847) Is th AMP requirement or Watt info on the Furnace? I'll go look E-A
Could be either. You may have to look in the install manual. Keep in mind that many appliances that are hard wired have a rating on the build plate as to the required breaker or line size. Not necessarily the actual operating amps of the device. The only real way to tell is to put a clamp meter on the line. Clear as mud? Honestly, fridges and furnaces wiould be expensive to do with solar. You would be better server using a gas heater, and a very small chest freezer.

Tn...Andy | 01-24-2009 08:05 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question To get specific: Look at your furnace fan/ignition/oil pump/whatever uses electric on the furnace....figure the wattage it pulls ( I'm assuming the furnace burns some kind of fuel, like natural gas or oil...if it's an electric furnace, forget this altogether....never happen without a HUGE solar system )....and then figure the number of hours it runs. Say, for example, it needs 500 watts, and runs 6 hrs out of 24. ( BEST way to find this out, by the way, is to get a "Kill-a-watt" meter...Google it....wire a temporary plug for the furnace thru the meter, and let it record the amount of power you use over a give period of time....this will give you the MOST ACCURATE way to do these figures.....actual data ) If you need 500watts, you would want AT LEAST a 500watt inverter, and probably a bit more even if you just ran the furnace.... 500watts divided by 120v = 5amps (rounded up) Then, figure it runs 6hrs in 24. You need a battery bank that will produce 5amps for 6 hrs or 30amp/hrs.....figure 40amp/hrs to be safe and allow for inverter losses. ( The best ones are only about 90-93% efficient at conversion ) Buy a couple of wet cell golf cart Trojan T105's...the cheapest ( maybe not the BEST route....probably sealed glass mat type would be better for maintenance reasons )....the 105 is rated at 225 A/H and will deep cycle 300 - 500 times. Two of them will give you 12v, but the amp/hour rating stays the same.....you can discharge them to 50% for that 300-500 cycle, so you'd get about 112 amp hours out of these....or enough to run your furnace a bit over 2 days using the above 500 watts. NOW, you have to replace that use with enough panels.... Say the sun shines 5 hours per day in the winter in your neck of the woods....you need enough panels to produce 500watts x your 6 hours of use in 24....which is 3000w/hrs. Dividing 3000/5hrs of sun = about 600watts of panels IF the panels got full sun for the FULL 5 hours....they won't.....so add 50% that and make it 900watts....and IF the sun doesn't shine EVERY DAY, you'll need even more...figure 1500....overkill is always better. AND if you get into an extended period of NO sun....we go 4-5 days sometimes in winter....you better figure on a small generator to recharge the battery bank. ACTUALLY, a generator with a battery bank and inverter is the CHEAPEST way to go, if you want to know the truth, and the BEST WAY to use a generator. You use almost the full capacity of the generator to charge the battery bank, then shut it off, and slowly discharge the bank over a day or so, then fire up the generator for a couple hours to recharge....rinse and repeat. A 4 or 5kw generator is like 500-750bucks, and to do that with solar panels is 25 grand ! So you can spend a HECK of a lot on a generator and stored fuel before you ever come close to the equal in solar panels....but a "hybrid" of the two is the best of all worlds, IMHO.

Tn...Andy | 01-24-2009 08:15 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy (Post 1529853) Could be either. You may have to look in the install manual. Keep in mind that many appliances that are hard wired have a rating on the build plate as to the required breaker or line size. Not necessarily the actual operating amps of the device. The only real way to tell is to put a clamp meter on the line. Clear as mud?
That only gives you half the equation......you must also know the amount of time it runs......hence, if you can wire in a "Kill-a-watt" meter, you get both. Wish they made a hardwire version, and a 220v version, but they don't as far as I know. I got an OLD OLD OLD kilowatt/hr meter from my power company that has a couple sets of leads on it for a study I did some years ago with an electric water heater and wrapping it with a layer extra layer of standard 3 1/2" building insulation to see how much difference it made in the use....about 1/3 less if anyone is interested.....so I personally have a way to measure watt/hrs on about anything.

TechGuy | 01-24-2009 08:25 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1529900) That only gives you half the equation......you must also know the amount of time it runs......hence, if you can wire in a "Kill-a-watt" meter, you get both. Wish they made a hardwire version, and a 220v version, but they don't as far as I know. I got an OLD OLD OLD kilowatt/hr meter from my power company that has a couple sets of leads on it for a study I did some years ago with an electric water heater and wrapping it with a layer extra layer of standard 3 1/2" building insulation to see how much difference it made in the use....about 1/3 less if anyone is interested.....so I personally have a way to measure watt/hrs on about anything.
Yeah.. true, I was just trying to give him a way to get a true power requirement for his furnace.

British Sovereign | 01-24-2009 09:01 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Great stuff TnAndy! Thanks for that info on solar. I've been leaning towards a 30KW diesel gen and large diesel storage tank. I've located a used 1000 gal diesel tank on skids locally for $1000. A local tool rental shop is replacing theirs. A new tank is $7000. I also found a used gen for $3000. The electrical install will be another $1000 or so. I'm wanting to bury and/or berm both tank and gen. I have many acres of space. I don't want to hear the drone of the gen for days on end. Even the quiet ones are mind numbing. Has anyone else worked on an oil rig? The drone of a diesel is quite annoying. The burn rate on the 30KW is about 2 gallons per hour. That should provide normal living conditions for at least 3 weeks. More depending on the season.

Armed.peasant | 01-24-2009 09:59 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question I can tell you first hand, I have a system very close to the Home Depot system you are looking at. With 3 deep cycles I can run lights at night (120 watts total) about 5 to 6 hours along with a 19 inch TV, Sat. box, and charge a cell phone. I am running a 1000 watt invertor. If we did not have a full sun day the next day the run time on the above was cut to 30% and I would fire up the generator to charge the batteries. I would run bigger items like microwave (750 watts) with the generator and use propane for hot water and heat along with a wood stove.

electric-amish | 01-24-2009 10:13 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question This is some good info here. Thanks. So I was thinking about this as I drove to get a pack of smokes. "Why use Solar at all? Why not just charge Batteries off the House Hold Electric? Answer It would be great for 3 day event (Storm) BUT it probebly will be better to plan for longer power requirements.(SHTF) I've shifted to Prep Mode again--Extra Food ect. E-A PS Hey Andy is this what you were refering to?http://cache3.smarthome.com/images/9034.jpg Thanks E-A

Tn...Andy | 01-24-2009 10:36 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question That's the one EA.

Armed.peasant | 01-25-2009 09:04 AM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Either way it would be a good idea to have a generator for large wattage items and to recharge the batteries for a long term event. I use a small Honda that is around 2000 watts for this purpose only. It runs on very little fuel and the neighbors can not hear it running. Some of the small Honda and Yamaha generators are very quiet.

Cast Iron | 01-25-2009 10:44 AM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Great info. You do get what you pay for and solar is not cheap. We're also wired for generator. I've found that will all the math, take another 30% off your calcs for voltage drop thru the lines, battery storage losses, and inverter back to AC losses. Would stay away from the HD kit or any other panel make of that "thin film" technology. Polycrystalline at the least will give you 13% effeciency for 20 years gauranted by the manufacturer. Mono will be a bit more effecient but is more $$$. Also, a charger with MPPT will give you a four-stage charge on the batteries -extending bank life and reducing charge time. Have a look at something like this: http://store.altenergystore.com/Sola...th-J-Box/p723/ It's a start within your price range, poly, 2.8amp, 50W and less than $7/watt. Buy the best panels you can because they last. You can always add on additional panels down the road.

steel_ag | 01-25-2009 11:07 AM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question https://matteranenergy.us/Progress_Update.htm I'm hoping these guys produce a viable home-scale version soon.... :bear_wub:

Clawdia | 01-26-2009 06:34 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question I'd love to have a generator, but can't figure out how to store enough fuel to make it worthwhile. What solutions have other people come up with for fuel storage?

TechGuy | 01-26-2009 10:50 PM
Re: Home Depot Solar System question Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawdia (Post 1532931) I'd love to have a generator, but can't figure out how to store enough fuel to make it worthwhile. What solutions have other people come up with for fuel storage?
gasoline too dangerous for my comfort. diesel and PRI-D is the way to go.. stable, will not explode, VERY long storage life. We store it in several 55 gallon metal drums. Diesel is also higher in BTU's than gasoline or propane. It is one of the densest sources of hydrogen available.

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