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Avalon | 07-14-2008 07:27 AM
well pump is out...UGH! I suspect its shot. Its 25 years old.. A while back we had some great threads on well pumps that had the attachable hand pumps for when the power goes out. I cant find those threads. Does anyone have any info on the those hand units or the best place to buy a well pump with one build in. I think we can pull it and replace it ourselves. Our well is about 350 ft. If I recall that was a questionable depth for a hand unit.. This is going to be an expensive fix. I wonder if the Governor is going to help foot the bill since he wants to tax private wells.

Tn...Andy | 07-14-2008 07:47 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! We've had a month of water woes here. My spring, which has never gone dry in the 26 years we've been here, has gone dry.....or not really dry, but is now coming out below the collection box point....and with very little flow at that. Several years of deficit rain conditions have put us in a hurt. Trying to anticipate that this might happen some day, I had a well drilled next to the house several years ago. 239' deep, water at 180. Unfortunately, it ran thru a mud pocket, and if you draw more than 50-100 gallons off it in a single draw, the water silts up with orange-red mud and isn't fit to use. I put a pump in it couple years ago, and found this. That pump ( a used one ) was bad...it would run, but not build enough pressure to reach the 40psi needed to make the pressure switch cut out. I used it for irrigation for a while, and would run it a week at a time, trying to see if I could clear out the mud pocket. After several hours of running, the water would get almost clear, but you could still see it wasn't completely clear. When the spring got low, I ordered another pump, neighbor and I pull the used pump, and put the new one in. It lasted for 3 days......now it starts, runs about 6-8 seconds and cuts out. I put an amp meter on it, and it's pulling about 3 times the normal amperage, which tells me the thermal overload in the pump is kicking out after that few seconds, cooling down, and resetting, allowing it to run another few seconds. Which means I probably have a bad pump end. So it has to come out now. In the mean time, waiting for pump #2 to come in, I went over to the acreage I have next door, which has a GOOD well in limestone on it, and already had a 3/4hp deep pump in it, and I ran 1500' of water line from the closest point of connection over to my closest point of connection. It would not build enough pressure to backfill my spring storage tanks, but would give us water at the house.......for about a week until THAT pump failed....probably due to being too little to pump from 300' down in the well, and pump a total of about 3000' from there to my house.....so, the plan now is: 1. Put a 1.5hp pump in that well, and increase the line size from 1" out of the well and to my new connection point to 1 1/4", which is the line size I ran over in my direction.....and hope that will work. 2. Rebuild a new spring box just below the old one to collect the water that has rerouted itself, and have that as an additional source. 3. Put a low flow, DC solar pump in the 'mud well' so it draws off only about 1 gallon/min with the idea that the low flow won't disturb the water enough to cause mud to wash in and cloud up the water ( it clears up nice when I don't turn on the pump for a day or so )....unfortunately, that is about a 3k system plus I'd have to build another storage facility to let the water pump up to and gravity feed back to the house ( can't use the spring tanks because of location and distance issues ). Right now, I have about 1000 gallons in my 3,000 gallon storage tanks, and after that, I'm out. Sometimes it's great having your own water supply, and sometimes it just SUCKS being your own water company.

Avalon | 07-14-2008 07:54 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Yeah it does suck being your own water company and this is why my blood boils when they talk about taxing and metering wells... Andy, good grief... You have really been through it!!! You situation puts perspective on mine and I will try and not whine. Keep us updated . Hopefully ours is an easy fix as the well and casing are fine but just the pump needs replaced.!!! I know the pump will have to be pulled and Duck has told us stories of when he pulled his pump..lol A 3,000 gallon holding tank is huge.. Do you have pics?

Avalon | 07-14-2008 07:55 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Andy, I forgot to ask.. where did you get your pump? Can we order then ourselves or do you have to be a contractor What about this site? http://www.nortonpumps.com/onlinesto...=10&subcat=ALL

Canadian-guerilla | 07-14-2008 08:00 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Tn_Andy how much do you depend on rainwater ? have you made extra plans to collect rainwater ? are there any lakes/rivers nearby that you can draw from ? (with a portable water tank)

nub | 07-14-2008 08:17 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! I just replaced my 1.5 hp jacuzzi pump with a Gould , it was only 1.5 yrs old , pump was bad. I had the well drilling co. replace it they put it in and should stand behind it, but I have pulled them myself and replaced them more than once. My new one sits in clear water at 150', no sand or silt, I pump through 2" line over 2,000' long with a total lift of 300' feet. I've fought for every drop of water we've used .....I feel your pain Avalon and yes you can purchase your own pump. I also suggest people check the cycles of their 220/240 power if it is from an on sight generator ....many generators don't produce a full 220 or the correct 60cycles, it is very common.

Tn...Andy | 07-14-2008 08:26 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian-guerilla (Post 1191569) Tn_Andy how much do you depend on rainwater ? have you made extra plans to collect rainwater ? are there any lakes/rivers nearby that you can draw from ? (with a portable water tank)
Well, I guess ALL springs depend on rainwater to some extent. The mountain behind us acts as a huge sponge and releases the water slowly at the spring....until you have years of deficit rainfall. Plans to collect extra rainwater ? Like a cistern ? Wife keeps saying we need to do that, but I haven't so far. I'm knee deep in alligators now, and it's hard to look at additional ways to drain the swamp right at the moment... :D Yes, there are nearby sources of water I could draw from, but as a long term solution, trucking water sucks too.....and I don't really want to go there unless it's a LAST resort, and it isn't now.

Tn...Andy | 07-14-2008 08:28 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 1191566) Andy, I forgot to ask.. where did you get your pump? Can we order then ourselves or do you have to be a contractor What about this site? http://www.nortonpumps.com/onlinesto...=10&subcat=ALL
Yes, you can purchase your own pump. I got mine from www.deanbennett.com ..........but I'd have to say I'm WAY unimpressed with the Flint and Walling pump since it only lasted 2-3 days. Buyer beware.

nub | 07-14-2008 08:38 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Andy I've hauled my fair share of water when the old well wouldn't keep up and we stored rain water also. This area has become popular with grape growers....every few years I see them drilling deeper wells, they are sucking up water with reckless abandon. I know of a guy near Santa Margarita lake (head waters of the Salinas river) lived there for many years dry farmed and cattle.....grape growers moved in and sucked the ground dry in 5 yrs. ....the guy punched 12 dry exploritory holes and wound up selling his property "as is" at a huge loss.

Avalon | 07-14-2008 08:53 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by nub (Post 1191585) I just replaced my 1.5 hp jacuzzi pump with a Gould , it was only 1.5 yrs old , pump was bad. I had the well drilling co. replace it they put it in and should stand behind it, but I have pulled them myself and replaced them more than once. My new one sits in clear water at 150', no sand or silt, I pump through 2" line over 2,000' long with a total lift of 300' feet. I've fought for every drop of water we've used .....I feel your pain Avalon and yes you can purchase your own pump. I also suggest people check the cycles of their 220/240 power if it is from an on sight generator ....many generators don't produce a full 220 or the correct 60cycles, it is very common.
from the troubles you guys are describing it might be better to "call the Man". I had no idea there were so many bad pumps out there. It would pay to have some type of guarantee on it.. Im on overload. The well pump is broken the oven broke this morning and the phone line is out. According to my husband it must all be my fault.. :mad_m: Its days like this living a solitary life in the woods with my dog for company sounds good.

Tn...Andy | 07-14-2008 09:33 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 1191535) I suspect its shot. Its 25 years old.. A while back we had some great threads on well pumps that had the attachable hand pumps for when the power goes out. I cant find those threads. Does anyone have any info on the those hand units or the best place to buy a well pump with one build in. I think we can pull it and replace it ourselves. Our well is about 350 ft. If I recall that was a questionable depth for a hand unit.. This is going to be an expensive fix. I wonder if the Governor is going to help foot the bill since he wants to tax private wells.
How do you know the pump is bad ? Can you describe your well and the type of pump, controls, etc ?

Avalon | 07-14-2008 09:48 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1191688) How do you know the pump is bad ? Can you describe your well and the type of pump, controls, etc ?
Andy, I don't have all the details but I will get more info. Evidently the wiring insulation on the top of the pump wore off because its so old. It looks like the wires arced. Then the water went out. My husband has a temporary fix on it but how much more life can a 25 yr old pump have ?? Honestly with the economy and TSHTF possibilities I would prefer replacing it now rather then later. My husband wont go for that. he will keep patching it until he either gets electrocuted or it totally dies. When we replace I want a pump with an alternate hand pump. We are 100% dependent on electricity and pump.

nub | 07-14-2008 09:54 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 1191698) Andy, I don't have all the details but I will get more info. Evidently the wiring insulation on the top of the pump wore off because its so old. It looks like the wires arced. Then the water went out. My husband has a temporary fix on it but how much more life can a 25 yr old pump have ?? Honestly with the economy and TSHTF possibilities I would prefer replacing it now rather then later. My husband wont go for that. he will keep patching it until he either gets electrocuted or it totally dies. When we replace I want a pump with an alternate hand pump. We are 100% dependent on electricity and pump.
Avalon you sound like my wife......she's a fighter (and a lover)....there ain't no "quit" in her.

Tn...Andy | 07-14-2008 09:55 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Since you can see the wires on the pump, I take it this is NOT a deep well submersible type pump, but a shallow well jet pump.....those sit on the top of the well or in a little pump house or a basement or something. You're fortunate there. You don't have a pump to "pull" up out of the well, which is one of the major PITA of a deep well pump. Replacing that type pump isn't bad. It also means your well is probably not too deep and you could put a hand pump on it. Find out all the info you can, and ideally, take a picture and post it, and I can give you some more advice.

Avalon | 07-14-2008 09:59 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1191708) Since you can see the wires on the pump, I take it this is NOT a deep well submersible type pump, but a shallow well jet pump.....those sit on the top of the well or in a little pump house or a basement or something. You're fortunate there. You don't have a pump to "pull" up out of the well, which is one of the major PITA of a deep well pump. Replacing that type pump isn't bad. It also means your well is probably not too deep and you could put a hand pump on it. Find out all the info you can, and ideally, take a picture and post it, and I can give you some more advice.
no, its a deep well pump.. it goes down 350 ft... Ill take a pic and post it later and maybe it will make more sense..

RealJack | 07-14-2008 10:03 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! My water is 65ft. down. The pump is about 125ft. Just recently the pump quit. It wasn't the breaker. It wasn't the pressure switch or the capacitor box. The pump itself is about 11 years old. I lucked out. It was several small breaks in the buried power line from the house to the on/off switch at the well head. In other words Avalon, are you absolutely sure it's the pump? Have you performed a thorough troubleshoot with the right equipment on the line yet? I'm hoping you still have a little wriggle room for optimism. :smile: I guess I got in a little late... What Andy says. He be da man.

Tn...Andy | 07-14-2008 10:12 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 1191715) no, its a deep well pump.. it goes down 350 ft... Ill take a pic and post it later and maybe it will make more sense..
Can you physically SEE the pump right now ? ...or is it 2-300' down in the well ? IF you can SEE the pump, it is NOT a submersible pump..it is a jet pump and therefor a LOT easier to work on if bad. PULLING a submersible pump from 300' down a hole requires some special equipment and effort.

Avalon | 07-14-2008 10:34 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Andy, Im going out to take pics now.. I think it has to be submersible but I am not sure... Duck said when he pulled his pump he used a tree and a rope...LOL Jack, I will not be checking anything electrical. Electricity is one thing I am afraid of. Probably because my husband has much of our outdoor stuff rigged with indoor electrical cords and every so often I get jolted.. He doesnt seem to mind getting electrocuted occasionally so he can do it.. :D

Weho Dave | 07-14-2008 10:41 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! My pump is in the basement. It is about 25 years old too and runs fine. When I bought the house, somebody said the well was 250 feet deep. I have no idea. We have a spring up the hill too, but don't use it. It is about 200 feet from the house. This has got me thinking about piping in some spring water for emergencies like this. But it gets cold in Mass. and the pipe would have to be buried below the frostline. Might be easier to just walk out there and bring a bucket in when needed. Not such a good idea for showers though. My neighbor has a spring in his basement with a sump pump that feeds water into his system. Not a bad SHTF setup actually. The house is for sale and most people look at that setup and scream bloody murder. I like hearing about others water setups. Water is something people take for granted until it is gone.

Tn...Andy | 07-14-2008 10:54 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Water is something people take for granted until it is gone. Amen to that.........

Avalon | 07-14-2008 11:23 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! 4 Attachment(s) evidently the roof comes off the well house so the pump can be lifted. This sounds like cussing work.

SAUM | 07-14-2008 11:25 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! For Andy, Can you perhaps reverse flush your well? Is perforated casing out of the question?

Tn...Andy | 07-14-2008 11:47 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Good God, Avalon....what a mess ! Based on what I 'think' I see, you do have a deep well submersible pump. It appears to be a "2 wire" ( I only see a yellow and red ) which is NOT the way to go with a submersible pump IMHO....because a 2 wire pump has the start capacitor for the motor down ON the pump, and if that goes bad ( like a lightening hit ), you have to pull the whole thing up to replace it. A 3 wire pump has a control box mounted somewhere up top with the start capacitor for the pump motor located IN the control box, so if it goes bad, you don't pull the pump, you simply replace the capacitor ( or the whole control box.....they are only about 20-50 bucks depending on size of the motor )....so if you do replace the pump, by all means, GO WITH A 3 WIRE VERSION. The most simple test is just to take that VOMeter I see laying there and make sure you have 220-240 volts between the yellow and red wires, and if you do, you have a problem down the hole, and it really doesn't matter whether it's the pump or the motor ON the pump, or bad wire between the top and bottom ( pumps twist around as they start and sometimes fray a wire enough to ground or open it ), the pump has to come out. If you DON'T have 220 at the above, start checking back along the wire to the power panel and find why not....that is most likely your problem. Building a house over the well is NOT a good idea, as most commercial well pump services use a boom mounted on a truck and have to get right over the well head to pull the pump....the pipe down the hole has to come out in 20' sections and be unscrewed one at a time. The well I have on the other place was done the same way ( by my BIL who owned the property before us ) and I intend to tear it down, and build a different house for the pressure tank, and electrical controls that is NOT right over the well head......like should have been done to start with.

Fullpower | 07-14-2008 12:39 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Avalon: look in the phone book for a well service company. Probably some old guy around, been servicing wel pumps for forty years, charge you a minimum fee to come check out your situation, give you an estimate. probably worth having a pro give a look see. if at that point you NEED a deep well pump, advise you get a 3 wire pump, WITH external (capacitor) box. a GOOD quality stainless steel deep well pump goes in the 350 to 500 dollar range. if yours is HUNG from plastic pipe, you can drag it out yourself ( with the help of a strong young man) and replace it. If it is hung 350 feet down on steel pipe sections, then you need POWER TOOLS to pick it up, like boom truck or well drill rig. 350 feet of steel pipe is VERY HEAVY. again, i advise getting a professional well service person to LOOK at your installation. ( we all want to help, but some stuff just cant be fixed over the .NET)

shades2 | 07-14-2008 12:53 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Increase your storage tank sizes. That would be my advice. Stick to high quality pumps. Cheap ones that fail are a false economy.

GOLD DUCK | 07-14-2008 02:08 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 1191758) Andy, Im going out to take pics now.. I think it has to be submersible but I am not sure... Duck said when he pulled his pump he used a tree and a rope...LOL Jack, I will not be checking anything electrical. Electricity is one thing I am afraid of. Probably because my husband has much of our outdoor stuff rigged with indoor electrical cords and every so often I get jolted.. He doesnt seem to mind getting electrocuted occasionally so he can do it.. :D
QWAK,Avalon,When I bought this place in 81 the previous owner had jacked up the jet pump ,sawed off the pipe (2 pipes as it was a jet pump) and droped the pipes down the hole!:favorites21::s10: I used the chimney brush poles with a noose made of 1/4" steel cable to fish for the pipes -- took hours to catch that PIPE FISH!:s1: Once I cought the "PIPE FISH" and realised how heavey it was (the 1 1/4" pipe was filled with water because of the foot valve at the bottom!:hahaha: No way I could pull it by my self but also no help so I had to get CREATIVE :hahaha::yes: Luckely there was a big old tree about 10' away and it had a big limb sticking out not too far from the top of the well.:s1: I drilled holes in the side of the tree and used some 12" old RR tie bolts to to make a perminent ladder up to ware the tree limbs started then climed out on that big limb and hung a big pully on a chain and ran a 3/4" rope threw IT and atached one end to the steel cable and the other to the pull hooks on my old GMC Jimmy to do the pulling!:yes: Not much room to move the truck so had to pull about 10 or 12 foot then lock off the pipe with hose clamps so it would not fall back down the hole and do that over and over till I got all the pipe out of the hole!:yes::s1: The first time it took me about 3 days to get it done but this last time because I had done it befor I got it done in less than a day including replacing the down the hole pump I instaled with a biger, better, stronger new down the hole pump!:s1: Turned out the pump it self was OK and the steel fiting that conected the pump to the pipe had rusted out and THAT was the actual problem, so NOW I got a new pump and the old one as a back up spare!:s1: NOT fun BUT better it happen NOW when you can still get the what you need to fix the problem and find some one who can do the job! I would sugest spending as much time as posable watching and learning and asking questions of the repair person -- you just never know if you may have to do the job agen in the future and there may not be help THEN and you and your hudsband may have to do it your self! It aint rocket science -- mostly just hard and a bit confusing trying to figure out the cause of the problem -- don't let it spook or overwelm you -- stuff happens and IF you stay calm and think it out you can always find a SOLUTION!:yes::s1: the DUCK

southfork | 07-14-2008 06:09 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 1191535) I suspect its shot. Its 25 years old.. A while back we had some great threads on well pumps that had the attachable hand pumps for when the power goes out. I cant find those threads. Does anyone have any info on the those hand units or the best place to buy a well pump with one build in. I think we can pull it and replace it ourselves. Our well is about 350 ft. If I recall that was a questionable depth for a hand unit.. This is going to be an expensive fix. I wonder if the Governor is going to help foot the bill since he wants to tax private wells.
Did mine a few years back, not as deep as yours, bought the pump at home depot for around 300 bucks back then. Good luck.

StackerKen | 07-14-2008 07:07 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Ours went out a few weeks ago...Keep running..Never got enough pressure to stop. Musta been doing it for a while before I noticed cause our electric bill was 500 bucks! :s10: Anyway...Its was only a little more than 3 years old...Had a 5 year warranty But we had to pay the guy 600 bucks to pull it and replace it (500 ft down):mad_m:

Tallships | 07-14-2008 07:09 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! That looks like the setup my parents had when I was a kid. I remember my father going out there at least once a week all throughout the winter just to keep it going.

elroy | 07-14-2008 10:54 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! A short story for anyone who is considering pulling their own submersible pump. A few years ago my submersible pump of approximately 25 years took a crap a few days before Christmas. My handy dandy step-son said "no problem, we can pull it ourselves". No such luck. Turned out the pump was stuck/corroded/welded/mated or something to the casing. A well guy was called who arrived with a 2 ton truck with a small rig attached to the back of the truck. He connected to the steel pipe and proceeded to lift the front of the truck off the ground by pulling on the pipe but the pipe never moved. The jerking and pulling and cussing went on for several hours with no movement of the pipe or pump. Eventually we poured 8 gallons of muratic acid down the well and let it sit overnight. The next day he was able to pull the pump with a little more jerking, pulling and cussing. I have come to the conclusion that nothing about wells is easy. As we prepare to install a new leachfield on our septic system this weekend I hope it goes better than the well job.

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Avalon | 07-15-2008 09:38 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! After reading these posts it seems like almost everyone has had defective well pumps. My set up may be outdated but we have only had our pump serviced once in 25 years so its been a good pump.. Why are so many new well pumps breaking? The posts have been helpful because after reading how many defective pumps you guys have been through I will pay someone who offers some guarantee on the pump and their work.. It also seems like this is not the place to save money. I will do some research on what pumps are rated really well. Any suggestions? I would love a bigger storage tank but that will have to wait. We do have a huge pond and springs for emergency water and I would rather spend the money on an alternate hand pump that will go on the new pump so we can get water when the power is out. It looks like those units will be an additional $700- $800 dollars.

Maxine | 07-15-2008 11:40 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Avalon, Sorry to hear all this. I did some research on hand pumps a while back and these seemed the best: http://www.bisonpumps.com/ Would be interesting to hear if anyone has one of these on either a deep or shallow well and their experiences, if so.

Lt Dan | 07-15-2008 12:38 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 1193275) ........Why are so many new well pumps breaking? We do have a huge pond and springs for emergency water..........
Avalon, there a number of reasons that water pumps and not all problems are related to the brand. Usually the warrantee has expired before the pump goes bad. This is all planned by the companies that sell them and to add to that is the actual way the pump is installed and what materials are used when installing. One reason your system has lasted as long and well as it has is because it was installed right in the first place. As for the wire being in such a mess, e-gads, what a mess, that could be half of the trouble. New wires might be in order, however, to do this you'd have to pull the pump anyway. While doing this, you might find it more practical to also replace the pipe and pump. If you go for a new pump I'd suggest installing galvanized pipe. there are several reasons for this and it contributes to a pump lasting 25-30 + years. A pump installed on plastic pipe slaps around a lot when it kicks on and off. The movement will sometimes even cause the pump housing to get wore out and leak water into the motor. Failure! In my old house I had a shallow well pump that took hours to pump because the lift was too great for the setup. I was in a financial crises at the time and couldn't afford to buy anything like a new pump. I worked in the HVAC trade at the time and the shop also did plumbing work. One day work was slow and they were having us clean out the store room. They were just throwing away old submersible pumps and stuff, I just threw a few of the better looking ones in the back of my truck. Boss just wanted them gone, also a couple tires that had some miles on them were just junk to them but ended up on my truck, (God supplies) hehe, anyway I did scrap most of the stuff I got, spare change, and bought the stuff I needed to install the pump in my well. I had to drop it further down the well than what the over foot valve had been, but from that day on I never had another days problem with the pump. It was used when I got it and I lived there about 20 years after that, so I don't know how old it actually was. The guy that had bought it from Sears decided it didn't pump him enough water and went for a larger pump, or so the plumber who did the work told me. About the spring, have you thought of digging it out and walling it up enough to store water for when the power goes off? Of course you'd have to put a hand pump on it and carry your water in. Filtered it might surprise you how good it tastes. Before you drink any you should have it tested. But, then you knew that! :D

Avalon | 07-15-2008 04:10 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by gasilat (Post 1193609) i have one of these cheapo handpumps for surface water up at the cabin...its a hand dug / sandpoint driven well i put in that is about 15 feet down...these types of pumps are only good for about 20-25 foot wells...yeah, i know that's really shallow but environmentally the water here is not a problem... i only use it a few months out of the year but it seems to work okay for that period...most of the time i just get it out of a creek or lake... forgive the tumbling down old fence in the background...but its about 60 years old, and the old timer that built it made it with hand sawn timbers with hand split planks and knowing the love he had for this place its simply not in my heart to take it down... ....
gasilat, was it you who posted those pictures of a beautiful ,remote cabin type house way up in the mountains somewhere? If so could you post soem more? Your pump set up is realy cool. I woud love to have something like that for back up. If you take more pics how about a close up of the pump...?

Avalon | 07-15-2008 04:17 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt Dan (Post 1193653) Avalon, there a number of reasons that water pumps and not all problems are related to the brand. Usually the warranty has expired before the pump goes bad. This is all planned by the companies that sell them and to add to that is the actual way the pump is installed and what materials are used when installing. One reason your system has lasted as long and well as it has is because it was installed right in the first place. As for the wire being in such a mess, e-gads, what a mess, that could be half of the trouble. New wires might be in order, however, to do this you'd have to pull the pump anyway. While doing this, you might find it more practical to also replace the pipe and pump. If you go for a new pump I'd suggest installing galvanized pipe. there are several reasons for this and it contributes to a pump lasting 25-30 + years. A pump installed on plastic pipe slaps around a lot when it kicks on and off. The movement will sometimes even cause the pump housing to get wore out and leak water into the motor. Failure! In my old house I had a shallow well pump that took hours to pump because the lift was too great for the setup. I was in a financial crises at the time and couldn't afford to buy anything like a new pump. I worked in the HVAC trade at the time and the shop also did plumbing work. One day work was slow and they were having us clean out the store room. They were just throwing away old submersible pumps and stuff, I just threw a few of the better looking ones in the back of my truck. Boss just wanted them gone, also a couple tires that had some miles on them were just junk to them but ended up on my truck, (God supplies) hehe, anyway I did scrap most of the stuff I got, spare change, and bought the stuff I needed to install the pump in my well. I had to drop it further down the well than what the over foot valve had been, but from that day on I never had another days problem with the pump. It was used when I got it and I lived there about 20 years after that, so I don't know how old it actually was. The guy that had bought it from Sears decided it didn't pump him enough water and went for a larger pump, or so the plumber who did the work told me. About the spring, have you thought of digging it out and walling it up enough to store water for when the power goes off? Of course you'd have to put a hand pump on it and carry your water in. Filtered it might surprise you how good it tastes. Before you drink any you should have it tested. But, then you knew that! :D
Lt Dan.. I love your stories :D That's a neat story about getting the pump and the tires. God has always provided what I need too. Sometimes it comes in the most bizarre or unlikely ways.. Its one of life's little miracles.. About the pump.. Interesting new development. My brotherinlaw who lives next door called this morning and his water went out. My husband just finished patching ur pump so BIL is hooked up to our water at the moment. They have been out there working all day and it turns out the beaver from the pond have chewed through the well pipes that are close to the pond. Evidently the Bills well has been emptying into the pond for a long time. I kept wondering why the pond did not get lower during the drought.. :s9: Anyway, back to pumps.. I see where Sears craftsman makes a pump. You mentioned that good pump you had was a sears... so that is probably where I will start searching for a new pump... I dont know if my husband will go for replacing the pipe while he is in there... He can be rather "difficult " about stuff like that.. LOL

AMforPM | 07-15-2008 04:57 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! This house originally got its water from a spring up a hill across the road and I am pretty sure that water crosses this property underground. I have been tempted to have a dowser hunt around in a dry spell for shallow water under our property to put a handpump on for emergency use (filtered very well, of course) as well as collecting our roof runoff. (In wet weather you would not find whether there was one that kept flowing in droughts.) Unfortunately, I suspect it runs under the front yard, and would be too visible. Maybe I could use a garden shed type building as a pump house to not attract some law against it being enforced. Pretty funny to have a pump house for a hand pump! Good luck, Avalon. We have been having one of those times in our household -- everything from rescuing feral cats to abcessed teeth to car repairs to the wife's diabetes. Our to do list is long and emergencies keep busting in.

GOLD DUCK | 07-15-2008 05:15 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! QWAK,Avalon,Bet he has a HELL of an electric bill for keeping the POND FULL!:hahaha::rant: Sears aint what it once was -- I don't trust Sears any more on any thing but hand tools and even they are lower quality than the old ones!:508: I grew up with Sears stuff my folks bought most of the stuff we had from Sears but like SOoooooooooooooo many other companies we grew to TRUST all that remains NOW is the NAME and they have been living on THAT and when they went in to BANKING little by little what SEARS was or HAD been to SOoooooooo many started to DIE and as far as I am concerned SEARS is DEAD!:goodnight As a kid I saved to buy stuff at ALIDE RADIO it was a great place untill they were bought by RADIO SHACK than all the good went away but they kept the ALLIDE name and milked the customers with CHEEPER products who trusted the brand name!:rant: I always believed that buying QUALITY was smart because QUALITY lasts and you don't have to REPLACE the item several times over a life time!:thinkey: Today almost every thing you buy ,even PUMPS is made out side the USA and even IF it IS made in the USA that does NOT nessaraly mean it is the BEST quality and will last! It is also likely a foregn owner NOW owns the company name -- sort of like "This BUD is for YOU" :wink: I hear the hew owners may sell the KLISDAILS to a DOG food company and turn the wagon in to an amusment park orniment!:rant: The USA aint the USA no more -- "They paved PARADISE and put up a parking lot!":rant: YouTube - big yellow taxi with lyrics
YouTube - big yellow taxi with lyrics
the DUCK

Lt Dan | 07-15-2008 09:35 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLD DUCK (Post 1194220) QWAK,........Sears aint what it once was -- I don't trust Sears any more on any thing but hand tools and even they are lower quality than the old ones!:508: the DUCK
I agree with duck on Sears. In that place I do not look for anything now days. I bought a shallow well pump from Lowe's for a hand drilled well. We used one of those Deep Rock gas powered drills, went 23 feet, water came up to about 15 feet. When I set the pump on it and begin to pump I timed how long it took to fill a gallon jug to figure about how much water it would provide. Figured to 6 gal a minute, and would keep up that 6 per 24-7. Used that well for several years to water gardens fill the swimming pool and take out door showers. :bath: I had valved it so I could use my hand pump on it when the electric went out, but never did get around to piping it into the house. If I needed to buy a new pump now I'd go to the local plumbing supply wholesale place and just buy one from them.

Avalon | 07-16-2008 05:41 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by gasilat (Post 1194886) thanks, that is very kind of you... here's a photo i took of my inside door knob at the cabin... i wanted something kinda unique so i made one out of the butt end of a moose horn...(the end of the horn that attaches to the head of the moose) moose grow horns every year and they fall off in the winter usually around january and the horn drops can be picked up off the ground and used to make stuff... then in the spring the moose begin growing new horns... a moose that came swimming by recently...moose are incredible swimmers... ....
gasilat, it is really beautiful there. The closests thing I have seen to your place was on the top of Yellowstone lake..

Avalon | 01-29-2009 05:45 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! I wanted to bump this up for Maxine..

Maxine | 01-29-2009 05:54 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon (Post 1538695) I wanted to bump this up for Maxine..
Thanks Avalon.I was thinking of this thread this AM. Will read again slowly. I am just drinking tea with green mold in the water (for vitamin content) and wine (for stress!) interlaced right now. 'Bugger bum', as they say in Scotland, of such things as well pump failures. :moon:

Avalon | 01-29-2009 06:21 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxine (Post 1538719) Thanks Avalon.I was thinking of this thread this AM. Will read again slowly. I am just drinking tea with green mold in the water (for vitamin content) and wine (for stress!) interlaced right now. 'Bugger bum', as they say in Scotland, of such things as well pump failures. :moon:
Maxine, hopefully you can get some suggestions on a good pump. A lot of the guys here have worked on them.. In the meantime my old pump is still ticking away..

TTAZZMAN | 01-29-2009 06:55 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 1191553) We've had a month of water woes here. My spring, which has never gone dry in the 26 years we've been here, has gone dry.....or not really dry, but is now coming out below the collection box point....and with very little flow at that. Several years of deficit rain conditions have put us in a hurt. Trying to anticipate that this might happen some day, I had a well drilled next to the house several years ago. 239' deep, water at 180. Unfortunately, it ran thru a mud pocket, and if you draw more than 50-100 gallons off it in a single draw, the water silts up with orange-red mud and isn't fit to use. I put a pump in it couple years ago, and found this. That pump ( a used one ) was bad...it would run, but not build enough pressure to reach the 40psi needed to make the pressure switch cut out. I used it for irrigation for a while, and would run it a week at a time, trying to see if I could clear out the mud pocket. After several hours of running, the water would get almost clear, but you could still see it wasn't completely clear. When the spring got low, I ordered another pump, neighbor and I pull the used pump, and put the new one in. It lasted for 3 days......now it starts, runs about 6-8 seconds and cuts out. I put an amp meter on it, and it's pulling about 3 times the normal amperage, which tells me the thermal overload in the pump is kicking out after that few seconds, cooling down, and resetting, allowing it to run another few seconds. Which means I probably have a bad pump end. So it has to come out now. In the mean time, waiting for pump #2 to come in, I went over to the acreage I have next door, which has a GOOD well in limestone on it, and already had a 3/4hp deep pump in it, and I ran 1500' of water line from the closest point of connection over to my closest point of connection. It would not build enough pressure to backfill my spring storage tanks, but would give us water at the house.......for about a week until THAT pump failed....probably due to being too little to pump from 300' down in the well, and pump a total of about 3000' from there to my house.....so, the plan now is: 1. Put a 1.5hp pump in that well, and increase the line size from 1" out of the well and to my new connection point to 1 1/4", which is the line size I ran over in my direction.....and hope that will work. 2. Rebuild a new spring box just below the old one to collect the water that has rerouted itself, and have that as an additional source. 3. Put a low flow, DC solar pump in the 'mud well' so it draws off only about 1 gallon/min with the idea that the low flow won't disturb the water enough to cause mud to wash in and cloud up the water ( it clears up nice when I don't turn on the pump for a day or so )....unfortunately, that is about a 3k system plus I'd have to build another storage facility to let the water pump up to and gravity feed back to the house ( can't use the spring tanks because of location and distance issues ). Right now, I have about 1000 gallons in my 3,000 gallon storage tanks, and after that, I'm out. Sometimes it's great having your own water supply, and sometimes it just SUCKS being your own water company.
ANDY, Got a question for you...i have a site sounds similar to yours...with multiple water sources..curently i have two good limestone wells that work great...also have several springs at varying distances...the springs are at lower elevations ...do you pump your water UP to a tank uphill then gravity it back down..or do you gravity the spring to a tank then pump uphill to the house? ....also what size of tank do you? use and how long does the water remain good for storage? and what type of tank did you use...poly/stainless/coated carbonsteel/concrete??? do you pre-filter the water? or let it settle out in the tank and filter the pressure side? I am considering a tank down grade...possibly burried...hepa filtered vent...and a 12v pressure pump similar to a RV pump to presurize the system in emergencys.. our water here is clear clean and hard I appreciate in advance any thoughts or experiences you could offer

Jimfrancisco | 01-29-2009 08:44 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! I'm lucky enough that my BO place is right beside a lake, and there is an artesian well (at the highest point on the island) there - I choose not to drink the water because the "well" is just a 20ft deep pond lined with concrete and probably full of dead animals. But when the water table is high, no need to pump - it flows by itself. The lake water is pretty clean, as well - needs filtered to be clear, but it's just mud - zebra mussels have invaded the lake and taken care of the rest, the water used to look filthy. I just make sure to pull any water from upstream of the dock (outboard oil) and upstream of the outflow from the sewage tank (obviously!). There is a good current in the lake, we used to drink the water as kids all the time after letting the mud settle out overnight. Now I'd probably bleach it to be totally sure, no need for a filter!

Maxine | 01-30-2009 12:23 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by nub (Post 1191585) I just replaced my 1.5 hp jacuzzi pump with a Gould , it was only 1.5 yrs old , pump was bad. I had the well drilling co. replace it they put it in and should stand behind it, but I have pulled them myself and replaced them more than once. My new one sits in clear water at 150', no sand or silt, I pump through 2" line over 2,000' long with a total lift of 300' feet. I've fought for every drop of water we've used .....I feel your pain Avalon and yes you can purchase your own pump. I also suggest people check the cycles of their 220/240 power if it is from an on sight generator ....many generators don't produce a full 220 or the correct 60cycles, it is very common.
Do Gould pumps have a good reputation, Nub? My deep well pump is a Gould. I had a fit yesterday as I thought it had gone wrong at it just a few months out of its five year guarantee period. Luckily it is not the pump. The power was off in the night and the tank lost pressure as one of the float doesn't always sit right on one of the toilets. I am glad it is not the pump I don't want plumbers here falling over and breaking their necks, there is a crust of snow with ice on top of it all over and it is almost impossible to stand up out there.

TTAZZMAN | 02-02-2009 11:42 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! I wanted to bump this ...hope Andy has some subjestions on the post questions above.

Dave | 02-04-2009 01:48 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1538833) ANDY, Got a question for you...i have a site sounds similar to yours...with multiple water sources..curently i have two good limestone wells that work great...also have several springs at varying distances...the springs are at lower elevations ...do you pump your water UP to a tank uphill then gravity it back down..or do you gravity the spring to a tank then pump uphill to the house? ....also what size of tank do you? use and how long does the water remain good for storage? and what type of tank did you use...poly/stainless/coated carbonsteel/concrete??? do you pre-filter the water? or let it settle out in the tank and filter the pressure side? I am considering a tank down grade...possibly burried...hepa filtered vent...and a 12v pressure pump similar to a RV pump to presurize the system in emergencys.. our water here is clear clean and hard I appreciate in advance any thoughts or experiences you could offer
I can't speak for Andy but I can tell you what I am about to do. Currently, I will be pulling my water from a well at about 150 feet and pumping up to a tower. Then gravity feeding the house. The reason why I would recommend you gravity feed the house is it will give you quite a bit of buffer time if the well has any issues, or if you plan to use a solar pump that would pump at a constant rate during the day light hours. Also, when you feed a house, there is a lot of on/off usage of the pump even if you have a good size pressure tank. In general, I think the equipment sustains less wear when you have less start/stops. The final benefit is of course if you lose power, you will only need to run the generator for a while to fill the tank rather than run the pump to maintain pressure to the house. What I will be doing is building a 30 feet tower at the highest point of my land, since I am in Florida I have only about a 30 feet deviation throughout. I will have a solar pump feed my tower which would hold 500 gallons. When the tower is full, I will have a spillover in to a larger cistern on the ground (2,000-3,000 gallons) for crop and farm use and then once the cistern is full it will spill over in to a pond. The idea is that I will have constant pressure to the house, and use the larger cistern in conjunction with a pump to fulfill my irrigation needs. I will probably also direct rain water in to the cistern as well. This may not help you and you situation but perhaps provide you some insight on the matter. Dave

TTAZZMAN | 02-04-2009 10:44 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! I think this a a very good topic of discussion... If you build a 30' tower you will end up with 12.9psi of natural water pressure that seems to me to be pretty low? (water gains .43# pressure per foot of elevation) I am not sure how much water pressure it takes to work with toilet valve assemblys and such and what would be low pressure issues. I was thinking twards a system like your talking without a tower just enough elevation to ensure positive dranage to a on demand pressure pump. But i understand i would be relying on the pump to produce pressure. I like the idea of using a solar pump to keep the tank full your talking 500g of storage...are you worried or thinking about using it for drinking or cooking water at all? I am wondefing what my real water usage rate would be normally and if i would be changing the water often enough for it to be drinking water? I have also got to consider freezing weather Thoughts?

Dave | 02-05-2009 10:54 AM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1550689) I think this a a very good topic of discussion... If you build a 30' tower you will end up with 12.9psi of natural water pressure that seems to me to be pretty low? (water gains .43# pressure per foot of elevation) I am not sure how much water pressure it takes to work with toilet valve assembly's and such and what would be low pressure issues. I was thinking twards a system like your talking without a tower just enough elevation to ensure positive dranage to a on demand pressure pump. But i understand i would be relying on the pump to produce pressure. I like the idea of using a solar pump to keep the tank full your talking 500g of storage...are you worried or thinking about using it for drinking or cooking water at all? I am wondefing what my real water usage rate would be normally and if i would be changing the water often enough for it to be drinking water? I have also got to consider freezing weather Thoughts?
That is correct my friend. I am going to place the tower on higher ground than my home so I am hoping to get around 15 PSI to the house which should operate everything. It will not be the 30 PSI showers we are accustomed too but they will work none the less. It would obviously be pretty simple to throw a pump and pressure tank inline in our design; however, I want to do without that. For good measure I will place a plumbing loop with valves so I could route the water through the pump if need be. One thing that I have heard of people doing is taking the small 12V pumps from campers and placing them in front of faucets to provide extra pressure at those points. Again, there are so many options. I will use the water in the tower for drinking, cooking, and basically everything in the house. I can buy 275 gallon containers pretty cheap locally that I would connect in series at the base. The water that over flows from the tower will find it's way to the cistern which would be used for agricultural and farm purposes. I would have a pump at the cistern to provide the needed pressure for irrigation though I am contemplating a drip system if I could get the cistern high enough. Of course any over flow from either systems will feed a pond that I plan to dig. I am hoping to find enough clay on my property to line the pond and keep it somewhat water tight. Dave

TTAZZMAN | 02-05-2009 05:40 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave (Post 1551420) That is correct my friend. I am going to place the tower on higher ground than my home so I am hoping to get around 15 PSI to the house which should operate everything. It will not be the 30 PSI showers we are accustomed too but they will work none the less. It would obviously be pretty simple to throw a pump and pressure tank inline in our design; however, I want to do without that. For good measure I will place a plumbing loop with valves so I could route the water through the pump if need be. One thing that I have heard of people doing is taking the small 12V pumps from campers and placing them in front of faucets to provide extra pressure at those points. Again, there are so many options. I will use the water in the tower for drinking, cooking, and basically everything in the house. I can buy 275 gallon containers pretty cheap locally that I would connect in series at the base. The water that over flows from the tower will find it's way to the cistern which would be used for agricultural and farm purposes. I would have a pump at the cistern to provide the needed pressure for irrigation though I am contemplating a drip system if I could get the cistern high enough. Of course any over flow from either systems will feed a pond that I plan to dig. I am hoping to find enough clay on my property to line the pond and keep it somewhat water tight. Dave
What your describing sounds like the best way to go for florida weather...i am kinda scratching my head on my system due to the approx 30-60 days a year we get freezing weather, our frost line in the ground here is 24" so any piping has to be below that or more to keep from freezing. I do have the advantage of having several natural springs to collect and draw from and build storage ponds below in addition to a domestic water well. looks like i can store plenty of water but could have a delivery system problem without power. or figure out how to keep a elevated tank from freezing.

Dave | 02-05-2009 07:36 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by TTAZZMAN (Post 1552205) What your describing sounds like the best way to go for florida weather...i am kinda scratching my head on my system due to the approx 30-60 days a year we get freezing weather, our frost line in the ground here is 24" so any piping has to be below that or more to keep from freezing. I do have the advantage of having several natural springs to collect and draw from and build storage ponds below in addition to a domestic water well. looks like i can store plenty of water but could have a delivery system problem without power. or figure out how to keep a elevated tank from freezing.
Yes, fortunately we are blessed with warm weather and practically a year round growing season in Florida. Although this year, it has been a little colder than normal, but that means we should have good results with our Apple and Pear trees. Back to the tower, during your 30 to 60 days of sub-freezing temperatures, do you have much sunlight? If so, how about building a homemade solar water heater that you can take in and out of the supply loop to the tower. Insulate the water tower container walls which will keep your water cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter. The solar water heater should add enough heat to the water to give you that 10 to 20 degrees you may need to keep it thawed during those months. Naturally during the summer you could remove the solar heater from the loop. I am not a northern blooded fellow so I couldn't speculate if my advice would be sound for your area but it is something I would try. Andy, might have good advice when it comes to the cold. Ultimately, my primary focus is to have water pressure with or without grid power or the need to burn gas in a generator or pump. Sunny Florida gives me the obvious use of a solar pump to accomplish my supply side of the tower. Water is definitely the number one concern on any homestead. Dave

TTAZZMAN | 02-05-2009 11:10 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Dave, I do think i could free pump the water up into a tank...using the flowing water sources i have to power a pump to pump the water up into a tank.... at least in our area i dont think we get enough direct sunlight during the winter to power a solar heater (that was one of my thoughts) i think about the only way would be a lot of insulation and/or some form of heat i am thinking a calculated amount of insulation and since i am pumping 55deg water into the tank as long as i could maintain flow i would keep the tank water above freezing that part of the year(it will be a good experiment next winter) THank you for the interaction it definitely helps to consider others ideas

Jimfrancisco | 02-06-2009 12:15 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Have you looked into hydraulic ram or high lifter pumps? Need no power, and if you don't need to conserve the water (i.e. it's from a stream, rather than a well), they are fantastic.

TTAZZMAN | 02-06-2009 02:44 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimfrancisco (Post 1553731) Have you looked into hydraulic ram or high lifter pumps? Need no power, and if you don't need to conserve the water (i.e. it's from a stream, rather than a well), they are fantastic.
No i havent looked at those yet but i do have plenty of running water to power some form of mechanical pump with. I am considering a micro hydro electric power system but i have a lot more studying to do to see if i have enough water volume and head to make it feasable.

Jimfrancisco | 02-06-2009 03:08 PM
Re: well pump is out...UGH! Microhydro does need a very good flow and head to make it feasible - but do look into the hydraulic ram pumps. They make an oddly "comforting" sound in the background, if you can hear it from your house - tick, pop, tick, pop... and all for no power needed! You can build your own, I did so a while back just for fun - not hard if you scavenge a bit. They only send a fraction of the water that passes them up to the tank - but as they run 24h, and you can build them as large as you like, you should be able to have an "off the grid" pump!

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