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- - Spanish gold horde wrangling-- from The Economist (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=158565)

Anty Ep | 07-23-2007 03:14 PM
Spanish gold horde wrangling-- from The Economist cool saga, I will monitor this Quote:
When you find treasure, all and sundry promptly start to claim it IT MAY seem a glamorous life, but the lot of a treasure-hunter is not all adventure, excitement and the dazzle of gold and jewels. Take Odyssey Marine Exploration. One of its vessels was forced into port and searched by Spanish police last week, before being released this week. Odyssey's business is based on the notion that the ocean floor is littered with valuable old stuff that, thanks to new deep-sea technology, can now be recovered. Some evidence came in May, when it found 500,000 colonial-era silver coins and a few gold ones at a secret site that it calls Black Swan. Yet this has brought only legal headaches. Who owns the coins it whisked off to Florida after unloading the treasure in Gibraltar earlier this year? A Spanish magistrate seems to think that Odyssey may have illegally scooped them off the seabed in Spanish waters. Odyssey denies this, but it faces claims from the Spanish government in an American court. Spain thinks the treasure may belong to it. Other �claim-jumpers�, as Odyssey's lawyers call them, may wait in the wings. Yet the firm is upbeat. Its find is good news for investors, including such funds as Fortress and GLG, after two years of losses. Even if a legitimate claimant appears, it hopes to keep 90% of the proceeds. Step forward the lawyers for Spain. James Goold at Covington and Burling, a firm that successfully defended Spain's ownership of two frigates, Juno and La Galga, lying off Virginia, believes the mysterious Black Swan coins may be Spanish. �The owners of sunken ships have rights,� he says. �Spain has not abandoned its sunken property and it does not permit unauthorised salvage.� If Odyssey is forced to hand over a large part of its Black Swan haul a cloud will fall over all commercial treasure-hunting. Who, after all, wants to invest large amounts of money looking for something only to see a government then claim full ownership? A similar recent case occurred in Colombia, where the supreme court came up with a confusing decision about the ownership of the wreck of the Spanish-flagged San Jos�. It awarded it, at least in part, to the Colombian government. Nationalism, politics, greed and a concern for the archaeological integrity of shipwrecks can all come into play in a big find. What should be done? If private treasure-hunters do not seek out wrecks, nobody else will. Governments rarely take any initiative. One alternative may be to adopt a British model. The British government has just signed a deal with Odyssey to recover treasure, and then to split the proceeds, from HMS Sussex, which went down off Gibraltar in 1693, carrying a million pounds in coins. The deal also provides archaeological guarantees. Defenders of this arrangement believe that it deals with most concerns about treasure-hunting. It settles ownership, rewards risk and initiative and helps the archaeologists. It might, indeed, be just the sort of deal that could benefit both Spain and Odyssey. Until treasure-hunters and governments start working together, every find is liable to be followed by complex legal wrangling, in which the only certain winners will be the lawyers.

____hoot____ | 07-25-2007 05:04 AM
Re: Spanish gold horde wrangling-- from The Economist A friend will be out towing a under-water camera off of some northern Lake Michigan islands this month looking for some British/Rothschild gold that was suppose to have been thrown overboard from a Canadian ship that was overtaken and sunk by Federal forces in 1863 while trying to sneak funds to the south via the Great Lakes Illinois/Mississippi River route. Unrecorded but very possible history, that is only known from oral U.P. lore. Strange, but I have found out that another legion of that area; the Battle of Charlevoix in 1848 did actually occurr. This is when the murdering pirate mormon/masons of King Strang were defeated by local settlers in a running battle on-shore and off-shore of Charlevoix. Thirteen of the infamous "Fourty Thieves" were killed. Would make a great movie, but as it shows the masons/mormons for what they really are; it will never be made. These pirates and all the ships they robbed and the people they killed to the last baby will just be left out of masonic written His-story. Young and his murdering gang have in the same way have been left out of the his-story of the west. Amost no mention is found to all the wagon trains they whiped out to the last woman child and baby. Only at the Mountain Meadows Massacure when two men of the group of 187 men women and children were out hunting and escaped to tell the tale, did any news of what they did get out.

Anty Ep | 07-25-2007 11:50 AM
Re: Spanish gold horde wrangling-- from The Economist Quote:
Originally Posted by ____hoot____ (Post 674197) A friend will be out towing a under-water camera off of some northern Lake Michigan islands this month looking for some British/Rothschild gold that was suppose to have been thrown overboard from a Canadian ship that was overtaken and sunk by Federal forces in 1863 while trying to sneak funds to the south via the Great Lakes Illinois/Mississippi River route. Unrecorded but very possible history, that is only known from oral U.P. lore. Strange, but I have found out that another legion of that area; the Battle of Charlevoix in 1848 did actually occurr. This is when the murdering pirate mormon/masons of King Strang were defeated by local settlers in a running battle on-shore and off-shore of Charlevoix. Thirteen of the infamous "Fourty Thieves" were killed. Would make a great movie, but as it shows the masons/mormons for what they really are; it will never be made. These pirates and all the ships they robbed and the people they killed to the last baby will just be left out of masonic written His-story. Young and his murdering gang have in the same way have been left out of the his-story of the west. Amost no mention is found to all the wagon trains they whiped out to the last woman child and baby. Only at the Mountain Meadows Massacure when two men of the group of 187 men women and children were out hunting and escaped to tell the tale, did any news of what they did get out.
Man you're takin me back. My dad loved the story of King Strang and we went to Beaver Island and looked over the fort. My dad was a 32 degree mason. I'm not though, as previously discussed. A lot of Masons still own property on Beaver Island.

Reno Chris | 07-27-2007 12:30 AM
Re: Spanish gold horde wrangling-- from The Economist Seems like its going to get to where if you find anything, some greedy government somewhere is going to claim it. Heck it already is that the US considers everything I make as theirs, they are just nice enough to send a bit back to me after the taxes are collected. Chris

Anty Ep | 07-27-2007 12:48 PM
Re: Spanish gold horde wrangling-- from The Economist did you know this treasure salvator is publically traded company?

Reno Chris | 07-27-2007 05:41 PM
Re: Spanish gold horde wrangling-- from The Economist Yes. Did you know that the hedge fund that presidential candidate John Edwards works for owns a major part of them? Chris

Anty Ep | 07-27-2007 05:44 PM
Re: Spanish gold horde wrangling-- from The Economist Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno Chris (Post 677348) Yes. Did you know that the hedge fund that presidential candidate John Edwards works for owns a major part of them? Chris
nope which one is that and how'dya know he works for em?

Reno Chris | 07-28-2007 01:20 AM
Re: Spanish gold horde wrangling-- from The Economist Been in the news. See: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...042201339.html

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