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Anty Ep | 08-03-2006 12:02 PM
Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds I couldnt figure out which forum to put this in-- might as well toss it here: Quote:
Diamonds -- a guerrilla's best friend Mideast violence has disrupted the world's diamond-trading market. Prices have fallen for three weeks, tracking the escalation in the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon. An industry analyst said diamond-smuggling rings run by Hezbollah terrorists may have flooded the market with uncut stones to raise quick cash just before fighting with Israel intensified. Industry experts estimate that Hezbollah has raised as much as $100 million on the illegal black market for rough gems. (New York Post, free registration required)

The Argent Dragon | 08-04-2006 04:46 PM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Will trade 'diamonds' for weapons.........hmmm.....DeBeers won't like that one bit.

lhslancers | 08-04-2006 04:57 PM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Not selling Gold though huh? Very interesting I say.

Halophyte | 08-04-2006 06:43 PM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Screw DeBeers ...

Maddie | 08-05-2006 08:13 AM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Quote:
Originally Posted by lhslancers (Post 321242) Not selling Gold though huh? Very interesting I say.
That was my thought, too.

The Great Ag | 08-05-2006 08:31 AM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Quote:
Originally Posted by lhslancers (Post 321242) Not selling Gold though huh? Very interesting I say.
Unless you are transporting coins of high numismatic value, diamonds have more value, and they do not set off metal detectors. Imagine you are a security scanner at an airport, and someone walks through with 5 lbs gold. What would you do? Me, I'd offer to buy some from him. You get my point. The Great Ag

lhslancers | 08-05-2006 09:47 AM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 321957) Unless you are transporting coins of high numismatic value, diamonds have more value, and they do not set off metal detectors. Imagine you are a security scanner at an airport, and someone walks through with 5 lbs gold. What would you do? Me, I'd offer to buy some from him. You get my point. The Great Ag
These guys can't find a private airport? I don't think they travel the same routes you or I would.

Jasper | 08-05-2006 01:10 PM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds These guys must watch the movies. In 'Lord of War' Nicholas Cage is an illegal arms trader who is shown as being paid in diamonds.

GoldWampum | 08-05-2006 01:17 PM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Diamonds make a great black market currency. Compact, non metal, accepted as valuable. The comparison of the weight and bulk of Silver vs. Gold is trumped by Gold vs. Diamonds. Simply because so many of high value can be carried so inconspicuously.

Jasper | 08-05-2006 03:12 PM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldWampum (Post 322101) Diamonds make a great black market currency. Compact, non metal, accepted as valuable.
"Valuable"? Maybe, when you buy them. But I've heard that when it comes to selling them they tend mysteriously to somehow lose a lot of their value ...

Fiat Mutiny | 08-05-2006 03:38 PM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds I'd personally get taken advantage of by a slick diamond seller. I'd rather deal in PM's. With diamonds, you have to become quite familiar with the 4 C's of diamonds... color, cut, carat, clarity. At least that is how I remember them. Two diamonds of the same size and cut may vary drastically in value. Me, I'm not the one to put a price tag on any diamond. I agree though, the metal detector and overall size of the stash could be decreased severely with diamonds instead of gold. On a side note, I met a guy online that claimed he had 3 million dollars worth of precious stones, not diamonds that he bought from this wholesale gemstone company that sold bags of unsearched stones. I felt he was full of crap and still do. He claims he bought about $500 worth of these unsearched stones and found 3 million worth inside. I don't believe him, but he seemed to believe himself. He had some bizarre reason for why he hadn't sold them for cash yet. My point is, this guy thought he had 3 million bucks worth of stones when in actuality, he probably had $500 worth. And me, you could possibly put three piles of gems in front of me, one with man made stones, one worth 3 million and one worth $500 and I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

GoldWampum | 08-05-2006 03:43 PM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper (Post 322163) "Valuable"? Maybe, when you buy them. But I've heard that when it comes to selling them they tend mysteriously to somehow lose a lot of their value ...
If that was true, then they wouldn't have such use in the blackmarkets. They are definitely marked up a lot for retail, but they are considered valuable for their size and transportability without detection. They have historicaly been used in this manner for a long, long time. I don't even believe someone would argue this. You buy gold and silver at higher than you can sell it also. And it's much more difficult to transport equal value. So what? Don't believe everything you hear.

Jasper | 08-06-2006 04:35 AM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldWampum (Post 322174) Don't believe everything you hear.
Big players must do well or they wouldn't be playing, but small players ...? "INVESTING IN DIAMONDS Many people think of diamonds as an investment and indeed, they can be very good investments. But before you get carried away, we of Jewelry industry would like to give you a few words of warning about this type of investment. These few words of advice can make the difference between a wise move on your part or a financial disaster. Diamond Investment Facts 1. White diamonds that cost under $50,000 at a true wholesale price are not rare enough to be considered an investment except in a market that exhibits extreme inflation of the currency. Even then, these less expensive stones may drop dramatically in price when inflation is curbed. If you wish to possibly make a profit and have an easy time re-selling the stone, you have to buy a beautiful and rare enough stone so that there are more buyers than stones available at the time of resale..." Cont: http://www.newyorkjewelry.com/html/i..._diamonds.html

GoldWampum | 08-06-2006 04:51 AM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper (Post 322565) Big players must do well or they wouldn't be playing, but small players ...? "INVESTING IN DIAMONDS Many people think of diamonds as an investment and indeed, they can be very good investments. But before you get carried away, we of Jewelry industry would like to give you a few words of warning about this type of investment. These few words of advice can make the difference between a wise move on your part or a financial disaster. Diamond Investment Facts 1. White diamonds that cost under $50,000 at a true wholesale price are not rare enough to be considered an investment except in a market that exhibits extreme inflation of the currency. Even then, these less expensive stones may drop dramatically in price when inflation is curbed. If you wish to possibly make a profit and have an easy time re-selling the stone, you have to buy a beautiful and rare enough stone so that there are more buyers than stones available at the time of resale..." Cont: http://www.newyorkjewelry.com/html/i..._diamonds.html
The discussion pertained to a somewhat large player in the blackmarket. Nice try at recovery though Jasper. I covered retail having a huge markup for the smaller buyer. A person should never buy one diamond at retail and assume he can get more than half back when he sells it, if that. That move is NOT an investment. Small players do better in marijuana trafficking than Cocaine too. That does not mean that Cocaine does not have a high value on the blackmarket. It just means the wrong person (underfunded) is trying to play. We are talking about a clandestine malitia in the mid-east using diamonds on the blackmarket, not a guy buying an engagement ring as a family heirloom. Sheesh, you can't possibly be this naive. Maybe you are just new and inexperienced on such issues. Nothing wrong with that if you are willing to open your mind and learn. If that's not the case then you are obviously grasping at straws.

Jasper | 08-06-2006 06:07 AM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Yours was a general statement and what I have posted is wholly relevant. Your attempt to twist what I said is covered somewhere in '25 Tactics for Truth Suppression': http://www.benfrank.net/disinfo/ Please find someone else to play with. The truly intelligent are always modest. Bye.

GoldWampum | 08-06-2006 12:52 PM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper (Post 322595) Yours was a general statement and what I have posted is wholly relevant. Your attempt to twist what I said is covered somewhere in '25 Tactics for Truth Suppression': http://www.benfrank.net/disinfo/ Please find someone else to play with. The truly intelligent are always modest. Bye.
The truly intelligent don't paint themselves into a corner and claim it's a door. Balony Jasper. I twisted nothing. It was you who threw the red herring of small retail sales out there. That's a diversion. This was not a general statement Jasper, but confirmation that diamonds are used as black market currency and why it is attractive to do so.. Quote:
Diamonds make a great black market currency. Compact, non metal, accepted as valuable. The comparison of the weight and bulk of Silver vs. Gold is trumped by Gold vs. Diamonds. Simply because so many of high value can be carried so inconspicuously.
To which you posted a general statement Quote:
Valuable"? Maybe, when you buy them. But I've heard that when it comes to selling them they tend mysteriously to somehow lose a lot of their value ... Big players must do well or they wouldn't be playing, but small players ...?
Followed by this red herring. Quote:
"INVESTING IN DIAMONDS Many people think of diamonds as an investment and indeed, they can be very good investments. But before you get carried away, we of Jewelry industry would like to give you a few words of warning about this type of investment. These few words of advice can make the difference between a wise move on your part or a financial disaster. Diamond Investment Facts 1. White diamonds that cost under $50,000 at a true wholesale price are not rare enough to be considered an investment except in a market that exhibits extreme inflation of the currency. Even then, these less expensive stones may drop dramatically in price when inflation is curbed. If you wish to possibly make a profit and have an easy time re-selling the stone, you have to buy a beautiful and rare enough stone so that there are more buyers than stones available at the time of resale..."
You just got caught with your pants down arguing with the person rather than the issue, which was Hezbollah using diamonds on the blackmarket to supply themselves on the black market. I spoke to that and you denied the liklihood. Open your mind, read and learn. there's plenty more out there about it. Come back when you know something about the subject. Dying for Diamonds Diamonds, Africa, and War by Steven Wu From Sovereignty, Vol. 22 (4) - Winter 2000 Print Email article 1 2 Next » Related Articles: Public Health in War Angola’s Agony Conflict Diamonds Lessons from Guatemala Chaotic Congo Steven Wu is a Staff Writer for the Harvard International Review By selling diamonds, Africa's rebels have been able to resupply themselves almost constantly, prolonging their reigns of terror and brutality in countries like Angola that have not seen peace in years. African diamonds bear little resemblance in their original state to the precisely cut gemstones that are avidly bought and sold in Western markets. Instead, Africa supplies what are called "rough diamonds" to processing centers in other countries, where gem cutters convert the rock-like natural diamonds to their more precious forms. Although rough diamonds are significantly less valuable than cut diamonds, Africa's rough diamonds are still among the most valuable of Africa's natural resources. Little wonder, then, that rebels in Sierra Leone, Angola, and the Democratic Republic of Congo have begun selling diamonds on the black market in order to purchase provisions, political favors, and weapons such as AK-47s and land mines. The money made from such sales is anything but trivial: some experts estimate that diamonds from African rebels constitute up to 10 percent of the more than US$7-billion-per-year rough diamonds market. In many ways, rough diamonds are a rebel group's ideal resource. [more] http://hir.harvard.edu/articles/886/ Conflict Diamonds What is a conflict diamond? Conflict diamonds are diamonds that originate from areas controlled by forces or factions opposed to legitimate and internationally recognized governments. These diamonds are used to fund military action in opposition to those governments. The diamonds are sold on the black market and are used to propagate a bloody war which victimizes many children. The last thing anyone wants on their mind when making a diamond purchase is to know that their diamond possibly helped aid such a violent and brutal act of aggression. [more] Diamond black market not stamped out ERIC ONSTAD JOHANNESBURG - A black market in diamonds continues despite a certification programme intended to stamp out a trade that fuelled civil wars, the head of diamond giant De Beers says. In a tough speech at the World Diamond Congress in Tel Aviv, De Beers chairman Nicky Oppenheimer said some diamond traders were still buying uncertified rough diamonds in West Africa and many jewellery stores were not tracing the source of gems. Trade in these stones helped finance civil wars in Sierra Leone, Liberia and elsewhere, giving rise to the terms "blood diamonds" or "conflict diamonds". "We as an industry are failing to live up to our commitments. That is unacceptable," Oppenheimer said in the speech given on Wednesday. [more] http://www.namibian.com.na/2006/June...63177D33F.html Black Market Clash: Experts Warn Terror War Ignores Illicit Trade in Diamonds, Weapons By Justin Rood, CQ Staff Terrorists probably are profiting from gunrunning, human trafficking, illicit diamond sales and other black markets operating in failed states and ungoverned regions of the world that are largely ignored in the global war on terror, a panel of experts warned Oct. 5. Those illegal and extralegal pursuits form the “vibrant infrastructure” of a clandestine economy that can be exploited by terrorist groups wanting to raise money, hide assets, acquire weapons, and move people undetected, according to the panelists assembled by the Center for American Progress (CAP), a left-leaning Washington, D.C., think tank. “We need to reconceptualize the way we think about national security,” said panel member Lee S. Wolosky, a National Security Council (NSC) aide to Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush on transnational threats and organized crime. Wolosky, now a lawyer with the New York firm Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP, and an informal adviser on national security issues to the Kerry presidential campaign, urged the Bush administration to shift its focus “away from states and toward non-state networks.” Non-state networks form a “vibrant infrastructure” of an underground economy, said panel moderator Gayle Smith, a senior fellow at CAP and former senior director for African affairs at the NSC. That economy operates primarily in poorly governed countries and thrives on the lack of international regulation, enforcement and monitoring, the panelists said. Although the panel did not produce new evidence that al Qaeda or other terrorist groups are actively working with individuals or Page 2 organizations trafficking humans, running small arms, dealing diamonds or selling drugs, they said that cooperation is to be expected — and the fact that the United States and others do not know more about it should serve as a warning, not a comfort. “From the NSC, we saw that networks have the ability to find each other, even if we can’t find them,” Wolosky told the audience, which included numerous terrorism and geopolitical experts, Department of Homeland Security officials and congressional aides. “Al Qaeda will go to different groups they think will help them,” added panelist Douglas Farah, a Washington Post reporter and author of the book “Blood From Stones,” which detailed how bin Laden’s terror organization hid millions of dollars in assets in West African “blood diamonds” before the Sept. 11 attacks and smuggled them out of the region for safekeeping. “They are willing to do business with anyone,” he said. [more] Conflict Diamonds From Andrew Alden, Your Guide to Geology. FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now! Diamonds symbolize so much. As the stone most commonly used for wedding rings, the diamond is a powerful token of love, purity, and prosperity. And its value relies heavily on its image of being clean, the most perfect thing that nature provides us. So the current controversy over "conflict diamonds" (also called blood diamonds) puts a lot at stake. Conflict diamonds are not just a public-relations problem. About one in every ten gem diamonds is smuggled from four African nations—Liberia, Sierra Leone, the Democratic Republic of Congo, and Angola—that feed money to a large black market. Some of the profits go to criminal gangs, some to brutal ruling regimes, some to outright terrorists. And the stones are mined under oppressive conditions for the smallest of wages, using methods that damage the countryside. Part of the problem is human and part is geological. The human part is the diamond market, an ancient secretive business where dealers trade stones back and forth, combine lots from different sources, and sell them across many borders during their trip to the jeweler. [more] It's become obvious who the game player is here Jasper.

madhu | 08-06-2006 01:18 PM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Diamonds symbolize so much. As the stone most commonly used for wedding rings, the diamond is a powerful token of love, purity, and prosperity. And its value relies heavily on its image of being clean, the most perfect thing that nature provides us. So the current controversy over "conflict diamonds" (also called blood diamonds) puts a lot at stake. Conflict diamonds are not just a public-relations problem. About one in every ten gem diamonds is smuggled from four African nations�Liberia, Sierra Leone, the Democratic Republic of Congo, and Angola�that feed money to a large black market. Some of the profits go to criminal gangs, some to brutal ruling regimes, some to outright terrorists. And the stones are mined under oppressive conditions for the smallest of wages, using methods that damage the countryside. yeah, debeers wants complete and total monopoly of the diamond market. To this end they will coerce, bribe different gubermints to pass laws favourable to them and call their competitors all kinds of names. Once they have monopolised then u know the prices of diamonds just skyrockets. May be we should all boycott all diamonds. wether its debeers or it is blood diamonds.

Jasper | 08-07-2006 05:10 AM
Re: Hizb'allah may be dumping uncut diamonds Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldWampum (Post 322788) The truly intelligent don't paint themselves into a corner and claim it's a door.
Hey, Mr Smartypants - Maybe you haven't noticed but GIM is not a hangout for illegal arms traders doing multi-million dollar deals using diamonds. It's a place mainly for small players some of whom may have become intrigued by the idea of diamonds as an investment. I posted useful information for that type of person as a caution. I would have expected to be thanked for my contribution and not sneered at by some Johnny know-all. I wonder where you sneerers and scoffmeisters come from? My advice to you would be to take a laxative and blow some of the crap out your system. People like you have a deadly effect on this forum by actively discouraging the more timid from posting what seems to them interesting and useful out of fear of being attacked by bullies. I think everyone who reads it will remember the snip I posted, and the interested will have been given a link to where they can find out much more. :aetsch:

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