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- - How to artificially tone a silver coin (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=437830)

madfranks | 01-07-2010 08:55 AM
How to artificially tone a silver coin 3 Attachment(s) A couple of years ago, I paid $35 for a "monster toned" Peace dollar because the toning on it was so intense and I am always looking to add a unique piece to my collection. That was before I knew how utterly easy it is to artificially tone a silver coin. Back then the only way I knew how to tone a coin was to put it in a paper envelope and let it sit on a window sill for a couple months. But every time I tried that all I would get would be dull brown patina, so it never looked good. So I've been doing some researching and found out numerous methods for artificially toning silver coins, and I've been doing some "science experiments" with my kids to experiment and see what we can come up with. I'm going to post my methods and results here so that everyone can see how easy it is to artificially tone a coin, as well as what to look for if someone is trying to sell you a "genuine" toned coin for a premium. Obviously, toning lots of coins and then selling them for a premium is unethical, so don't do it. My first method required three things: a warm hard boiled egg, a ziploc bag and (of course) a silver coin. It's simple enough: put the coin and the egg in the ziploc bag, and break the egg. The sulfur from the egg reacts with the silver to form the toning. The first picture is the coin, a simple generic silver round. The second pic is the set up, and the third pic is the resultant toned silver round. In total, the coin sat in the bag with the egg for less than 2 hours. I've got other experiments going on and I'll post the methods and results as they come in. Cheers! :coolbeer:

rodzm | 01-07-2010 09:08 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Interesting, please keep it coming. I love experiments, by the way did the coin smell like eggs afterward, I imagine so

RossL | 01-07-2010 09:13 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin sorry , but I have never understood the appeal of a toned silver coin. toning = corrosion albeit a very very thin layer of corrosion

madfranks | 01-07-2010 09:15 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by rodzm (Post 2113086) Interesting, please keep it coming. I love experiments, by the way did the coin smell like eggs afterward, I imagine so
No, it didn't take long enough for the egg to rot or anything, so I threw the egg and the bag away, and washed the coin in warm soapy water and it didn't smell at all.

Twisted Avatar | 01-07-2010 10:16 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin That is nice toning for a boiled egg You just crushed it in the bag??? T

rodzm | 01-07-2010 10:23 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin 2 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by RossL (Post 2113094) sorry , but I have never understood the appeal of a toned silver coin. toning = corrosion albeit a very very thin layer of corrosion
Natural toning can be a desirable aspect on a coin, its considered by collectors to be almost the equivalent of art created by nature or the equivalent of an expensive aged wine. Of course some toning can be very attractive even if performed by artifical means but the fact is that toning brings big money Check the one i bought just a few days ago. Im alsmot sure it is artificial but the colors are awesome

madfranks | 01-07-2010 10:35 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 2113178) That is nice toning for a boiled egg You just crushed it in the bag??? T
Pretty much. The sulfur in the egg is released when you smash it. It reacts with the silver and tones it all up. The egg needs to be warm or hot, a cold egg will probably take longer. If you're patient you can actually watch the silver start to tone before your very eyes. When it starts, the coin begins to take on a brown tone, but it eventually starts turning colors. I think if you leave it there for too long the coin will probably get real dark, maybe even black.

Ragnarok | 01-07-2010 10:38 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Interesting. I suspect the small amount of H2S generated by the crushed egg is the cause of the toning. One might also vary the toning by "masking" the coin with other objects/shapes placed at various distances from the surface, to modify access of the gas to different areas. For instance, placing the coin between two other discs the same size may result in more toning around the edges, similar to what would naturally occur in a roll of coins. Do make sure the coin is exceptionally clean (degreased, clean acetone rinse, etc) before attempting to tone it, as any surface contamination (fingerprints, etc) can affect the outcome. One can also make an H2S "generator" by melting a mixture of sulfur and paraffin wax in a test tube, then letting it cool. 2c, R.

The Great Ag | 01-07-2010 11:49 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Cool, Madfranks! Thanks for the pics. What differentiates artificial (AT) versus natural toning (NT)? It is intent. What you did was considered AT, because you set out to create toning in a short time. NT occurs due to long term storage in the holder. Some toning can be amazingly beautiful and some toning can actually wreck the coin's value. If the coin is beautiful to you then it will be beautiful to others. NOT all toning is desirable. The Great Ag

The Great Ag | 01-07-2010 11:51 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by rodzm (Post 2113195) Check the one i bought just a few days ago. Im alsmot sure it is artificial but the colors are awesome
I would guess it is AT as well, Rodzm. Since it occurs uniformly throughout the coin on both the obverse and reverse. Still a gorgeous coin, nonetheless. Thanks for the porn!:yes:

newmisty | 01-07-2010 11:57 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Natural toning can be a desirable aspect on a coin, its considered by collectors to be almost the equivalent of art created by nature or the equivalent of an expensive aged wine. Of course some toning can be very attractive even if performed by artifical means but the fact is that toning brings big money Check the one i bought just a few days ago. Im alsmot sure it is artificial but the colors are awesome
Awesome Merc Dime! Thanks for posting.

SilverCat | 01-07-2010 12:17 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by RossL (Post 2113094) sorry , but I have never understood the appeal of a toned silver coin. toning = corrosion albeit a very very thin layer of corrosion
I didn't get the whole toning thing at all when I first found out that people actually seek out toned coins. I always figured it was just unfortunate discoloration. Then I started reading about different toning patterns like rainbow and bullseye tones among others and now I have a different perspective on it. I can't see myself collecting them but I do understand the appeal to people who do.

goldwish | 01-07-2010 12:28 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin got a kennedy going right now - it's turning brown after a minute!

newmisty | 01-07-2010 12:32 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin HAHA! That's so cool...feels like being a kid again doing some fun chemistry experiments. I look forward to experimenting as well. We should hold a little contest to see who can get the best(subjective) toning design from crushed warm eggs! What a hoot! lol

Junk Woody | 01-07-2010 12:35 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...edMercDime.jpg Not my coin I just liked the toning .

newmisty | 01-07-2010 12:47 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin GORGEOUOS! Love that deep blue/purple hue!

goldwish | 01-07-2010 12:55 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin mine's turning reddish-blackish now, the bottom is still polished silvery...

newmisty | 01-07-2010 01:18 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Just had the thought that it would be good to suspend the silver for even toning... Any thoughts?

goldwish | 01-07-2010 01:44 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin update: coin is very black straight on, but viewed at an angle is taking on blue tint around edges and red/pink center. 2 hours eh? having fun though :) :ok:

madfranks | 01-07-2010 01:44 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by newmisty (Post 2113518) Just had the thought that it would be good to suspend the silver for even toning... Any thoughts?
I had the same thought but didn't think of a way to do it with the rather crude "egg in a bag" method. I've got a couple ideas that are testing out right now, I'll let you know what happens when they're done. :wink:

madfranks | 01-07-2010 01:46 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by goldwish (Post 2113555) update: coin is very black straight on, but viewed at an angle is taking on blue tint around edges and red/pink center. 2 hours eh? having fun though :) :ok:
The colors on mine showed up a little before the two hour mark. Take a pic when you're done, I'm interested to see what yours looks like!

goldwish | 01-07-2010 01:49 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 2113557) The colors on mine showed up a little before the two hour mark. Take a pic when you're done, I'm interested to see what yours looks like!
for sure! taking pics along the way (while watching the rhinos and fishing lines LOL!)

11S11ver | 01-07-2010 01:51 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Awesome experiment. I read that most of the toned coins that are desirable came from bank bags being stored somewhere damp and cool. Collectors look at them as proof that the coins were not cleaned in any way. Guess it's time to rethink that theory!

SLV>GLD | 01-07-2010 02:24 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin It is a very common practice in jewelry making to place sterling objects in a bag with an egg to darken them. This is done strictly for aesthetic purposes, is not considered disingenuous and is called antiquing. The effect can be desirable either to make the object look older or to mute the shininess which makes the object more useful with clothing or other accessories.

rodzm | 01-07-2010 02:26 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin I started my own eperiment as well. I placed a 2008 Eagle, a 1964 Kennedy and a 1893 Columbian Expo half dollar which was partially toned. The Eagle is toning the fastest and is turning blue while the other ones are turning more of a yellow color. My best guess is that the other coins will turn colors later on while the Eagle turns at a faster rate. I took a small bowl and let the coins rest on the edges essentially letting the sulfur get between both ends of the coin. My best guess is one side will have more color than the other since it is more exposed to the steam

SilverCat | 01-07-2010 03:34 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by rodzm (Post 2113603) I started my own eperiment as well. I placed a 2008 Eagle, a 1964 Kennedy and a 1893 Columbian Expo half dollar which was partially toned. The Eagle is toning the fastest and is turning blue while the other ones are turning more of a yellow color. My best guess is that the other coins will turn colors later on while the Eagle turns at a faster rate. I took a small bowl and let the coins rest on the edges essentially letting the sulfur get between both ends of the coin. My best guess is one side will have more color than the other since it is more exposed to the steam
You, sir, are a mad scientist.:yes: Keep it up. We will expect pictures.

Junk Woody | 01-07-2010 03:44 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Could you not place the coin on the smashed up HB egg to tone both sides? or do you have to avoid contact with the reactant (egg)?

goldwish | 01-07-2010 03:57 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin YMMV? good suggestion though. update: coin still dark but is turning more and more greenish! trippy ps. ok to eat the egg later? I'm hungry!

berkscoin | 01-07-2010 05:07 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin I have never tried this, but a coin buddy of mine claims you can bake a potato in the oven until very well done, cut a slit in the potato while hot, slip the coin in the potato, and leave it in there for about 15 minutes. He has some toned silver eagles that are outrageous rainbows. I also saw a Brilliant Uncirculated Trade Dollar at a show recently that was beautiful blue/orange subdued toning. The dealer told me he bought it snow white and toned it himself by adding a few drops of Liver of Sulpher to a cup of warm distilled water, held the coin by the edge and submerged it for only a few seconds then immediately rinsed the coin under running tap water to stop the toning before it got too dark. He said you can order Liver of Sulpher at a drug store, or off several internet sites. Maybe I need to start some experimenting as well.

RJB | 01-07-2010 06:10 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin I have a few cull silver dollars that lost value from being polished-- otherwise they're in great shape. I'm wondering if this might raise their value?

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- Gold - Silver - Coins - Numismatics (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
- - How to artificially tone a silver coin (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=437830)

Ragnarok | 01-07-2010 06:19 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Woody (Post 2113695) Could you not place the coin on the smashed up HB egg to tone both sides? or do you have to avoid contact with the reactant (egg)?
Yes, you do not want the metal to contact the egg as you will not get even results - more like an "eggprint", but if you or someone else does the experiment, post pics please! 2c, R.

shamrock | 01-07-2010 07:08 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin I tried this with a 2001 ASE, it had no tone at first. There is a slight rainbow tone around the edges, but there is mostly a blackish tone. It has an old antique look to it now. Here are the results: http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2840/1001384j.jpg

Saul Mine | 01-07-2010 07:28 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin I have only done one experiment, eating an egg with a silver fork. Don't do it! It takes days to get the black off! One thought I have is that it might give different result if you use only a small amount of yolk (only the yolk has sulfur) and let the coin soak in the fumes for a longer time.

goldwish | 01-07-2010 08:28 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin 2 Attachment(s) whoops got something to eat and forgot about the coin :504: was in the baggie 4+ hours or so. was kinda' dark (pic 1) but after washing in clear water has a lighter greenish/blue irridescense (sp again)(pic 2). still pretty dark viewed straight on like gun bluing. I think I'm going to pair it with my G23 40 cal. Talo as the finishes are similiar!

goldwish | 01-07-2010 08:31 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin oh yeah, the back is still shockingly polished silver - quite the contrast!

Aquaponics08 | 01-07-2010 08:35 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin A guy I know here in Korea tones silver coins by putting it in burlap and keeping it wet. Has gotten some interesting toning that way.

goldwish | 01-07-2010 08:36 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by newmisty (Post 2113444) HAHA! That's so cool...feels like being a kid again doing some fun chemistry experiments. I look forward to experimenting as well. We should hold a little contest to see who can get the best(subjective) toning design from crushed warm eggs! What a hoot! lol
I forgot to take the shell off before pounding the egg so didn't get to eat it after :p might try a 999 round want those lovely red and pink tones!

eugene | 01-07-2010 08:53 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin http://img2.pict.com/b5/a0/f9/2429440/0/gimround.jpg

Irons | 01-07-2010 08:55 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Duuude!!! Those came out great!!!:ok: :ok: :applause_:23_28_100s:

BoatingAccident | 01-07-2010 11:11 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Wow, this really works! I've got an ASE in the bag for 35 minutes now, with some beautiful toning already. I'm surprised how quickly it's reacting. I'm using a fresh hard boiled egg, steaming hot.

oboshoe | 01-07-2010 11:16 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Wow this is fun. I just did some englehard 1 oz bars. 9 came out beautiful, but one came out with blue chickenpox. Not sure what happened to that poor one.

BoatingAccident | 01-07-2010 11:40 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by oboshoe (Post 2114466) Wow this is fun. .
No kidding, my 08 ASE now looks like it's 100 years old. Absolutely amazing. I'm desperately resisting the urge to tone my whole stack!

AgKanga | 01-08-2010 01:48 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin So is there a way to positively identify NT (Natural Toning)? As suggested, I am sure there are ways to get just about any design you would want on the coin using different methods. I have a few rainbow toned Morgans and Peace dollars and now can't help but wonder if they are AT or NT :confused_ma::confused_ma::confused_ma: Great experiment for the kids though, thanks for posting :clap2:

AGRO | 01-08-2010 02:43 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin For some reason i don't think you can achieve the same results as a "true" toned coin/bar. Toning can be quite even in color and formation. It is usually not splotchy and sloppy looking. More like the bands of a rainbow. Perhaps a slower method may produce this affect. Maybe try 1/8th egg in a small cardboard box inside a bag (plastic) with a hole or two... Toning starts slowly on silver and takes a very long from what I know. this will depend on the conditions the silver is kept in as well. It also is not always the same. sometimes it starts in one area and another is left untouched. People that collect toned coins might know automatically that the toning on your initial coin pic is forced. NEVER the less GREAT EXPERIMENT!!!!

Irons | 01-08-2010 06:31 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Allright, somebody stick a 1oz gold eagle in the egg bag and see what happens.:23_31_2:

madfranks | 01-08-2010 09:12 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin 2 Attachment(s) I tried a couple more last night, this time I took about 10 mercury dimes and put them in a paper coin wrapper and let them sit in the bag for over 3 hours. The obverse on the top coin came out with a pale blue toning, and the one beneath it got some colorful toning near the edges, but you can tell it was a quick and dirty process. The rims are also very dark. Another method I heard about was to submerge a silver coin in shampoo for a couple days because most shampoos have some sort of sulfur compound in them, but so far my coin is as clean as when I put it in, so this might not work. I think I'm going to try to find some sulphurated potash (liver of sulfur) like berkscoin suggested to make a weak sulfur solution and see what I can experiment with there.

HistoryStudent | 01-08-2010 10:02 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Interesting how TONING can be a product of THOUGHT and MINOR effort - and some pay THROUGH the NOSE for it. That nose "saying" came from the Bysantine Emporers who slit the NOSE of their previous ruler and sent them HIKING. Sometimes it also happened to the fellow who did it prior. What comes around goes around - EVEN slitting the nose of your competitor who did it to his. :thumb.aspx::111::111::111:

rodzm | 01-08-2010 10:48 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin 3 Attachment(s) These are my results...not too happy with the Libertad but I guess with practice you can come up with some even toning

madfranks | 01-08-2010 11:02 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin rodzm, don't forget if you don't like the toning you can clean the coin up pretty simply. Put a piece of aluminum foil in a small bowl, put a shallow amount of warm water to cover the foil. Put a decent amount of baking soda in the bowl, stir it up to dissolve it, submerge the coin and the toning will clear up within a minute or two. I cleaned up the coin in my original post this way.

Storm Chaser | 01-08-2010 03:05 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Here's the results of my experiment. I kinda messed it up, but still very pretty. http://goldismoney.info/forums/pictu...pictureid=1679 and the other side http://goldismoney.info/forums/pictu...pictureid=1680

Master_Ho | 01-08-2010 06:48 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2115060) Interesting how TONING can be a product of THOUGHT and MINOR effort - and some pay THROUGH the NOSE for it. That nose "saying" came from the Bysantine Emporers who slit the NOSE of their previous ruler and sent them HIKING. Sometimes it also happened to the fellow who did it prior. What comes around goes around - EVEN slitting the nose of your competitor who did it to his. :thumb.aspx::111::111::111:
Great points! And - as a collector of toned Morgans - this is why I am VERY CAREFUL unless I am buying them already graded!!! I had one I bought on Ebay - the seller admitted franky, he had bought it and questined if it was real or artificially toned........we both agreed it was probably not natural. I bought the Morgan for like $12 anyway - cause I was curious - and sent it in for grading to PCGS. Here was my clever thinking. If it was AT then they'd send it back, no charge to me except shipping. If it was NT, then the coin would be worth a WHOLE LOT more than I had paid - so for me it was a no lose situation. I submitted it 2 times to see - both times they graded it but gave it a "questionable toning" designation.........pretty much what I suspected. I kept the coin and actually take it to classes to show them NT vs AT.......and my students love it!!! So - tonight I am about to try a big family experiment!!! I am about to experiment with the egg system on some eagles and maybe a Philharmonic. I intend to use three different amounts of yolk to compare!!! And my team here will see what happens! I can't take pics that are worth posting but I will let you know what we see........ PS - Gold doesn't tend to tarnish like silver - but it can't hurt to try it on a piece of bullion - if it sucks, you can always dip it - its only bullion!! Cheers!! :biggrin:

Master_Ho | 01-08-2010 06:50 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by rodzm (Post 2115141) These are my results...not too happy with the Libertad but I guess with practice you can come up with some even toning
When toning is "even" it often looks more fake.......remember, most toning on the old Morgans came from them sitting for decades in damp burlap bags, they are hardly even........

HistoryStudent | 01-08-2010 06:54 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 2116100) Great points! And - as a collector of toned Morgans - this is why I am VERY CAREFUL unless I am buying them already graded!!! I had one I bought on Ebay - the seller admitted franky, he had bought it and questined if it was real or artificially toned........we both agreed it was probably not natural. I bought the Morgan for like $12 anyway - cause I was curious - and sent it in for grading to PCGS. Here was my clever thinking. If it was AT then they'd send it back, no charge to me except shipping. If it was NT, then the coin would be worth a WHOLE LOT more than I had paid - so for me it was a no lose situation. I submitted it 2 times to see - both times they graded it but gave it a "questionable toning" designation.........pretty much what I suspected. I kept the coin and actually take it to classes to show them NT vs AT.......and my students love it!!! So - tonight I am about to try a big family experiment!!! I am about to experiment with the egg system on some eagles and maybe a Philharmonic. I intend to use three different amounts of yolk to compare!!! And my team here will see what happens! I can't take pics that are worth posting but I will let you know what we see........ PS - Gold doesn't tend to tarnish like silver - but it can't hurt to try it on a piece of bullion - if it sucks, you can always dip it - its only bullion!! Cheers!! :biggrin:
I have 3 boxes of pre-1899s - MS64s Morgans graded by your PCGS - some lightly toned. Some MS65 and MS66 which cost a tad more then - I believe. Sadly they are NOT the pretty rainbow babies - but some are interesting. At first I thought they were UGLY back in 1994 when I bought them for $25 a piece. $500 a box. :ok:

Master_Ho | 01-08-2010 07:09 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin 3 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2116115) I have 3 boxes of pre-1899s - MS64s Morgans graded by your PCGS - some lightly toned. Some MS65 and MS66 which cost a tad more then - I believe. Sadly they are NOT the pretty rainbow babies - but some are interesting. At first I thought they were UGLY back in 1994 when I bought them for $25 a piece. $500 a box. :ok:
They got prettier over time, huh??? *l* Bowers says something else I already knew.....one of his top four points is visual appeal........and he says, rightly, if its visually appealing to you, then it will probably be visually appealing to someone else too! I only buy the ones I think are lovely - but then, I run them by my wife too - if SHE likes it too - its a go, if not, I reconsider (tho I do not always go with her opinion) cause a good second set of eyes helps. I do not have too many and not all are toned (toned Carsons are sort of a double-perk!) - but I have a few that -when the time comes to sell, are on my "last to go" list!! But if I perfect the toning process - and I have some ideas - look out world!!!! (After all, I am white but my soul is Chinese! *lol*) :wink: The first is the obvious toned fake! Attachment 85362 Attachment 85363 and here is just one rainbow, first pic I came across in my file, I liked tho the pic is from the seller and is washed out a bit........ Attachment 85364

newmisty | 01-09-2010 12:14 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin 4 Attachment(s) After thinking about how to keep the coin suspended in the fumes, I fassioned a couple of down and dirty coin easels out of paper clips(last picture) and suspended a few coins from the lid using tissues and tape. I used one egg and a 4 hour "soak time" followed by replacing the old egg with a new one and letting it set another 2-3 hours. One Merc turned that Gun Metal Blue/Gray There was heavy toning on all of the coins that wiped off with a little laundry detergent and paper towel. The 40% were barely toned after wipe down. The 90% Standing Liberty also wiped nearly clear with what looks like a gentle antique finish. So in the end I was displeased with the overall effect and lack of color, but the one merc turned a neat gun metal gray/blue that is really neat in person. The middle Merc and the 68 Half were wiped off before the first picture and look at the toning that the SL got and how easy it wiped away(second pic).

AGRO | 01-09-2010 12:41 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin the Libertad in Rodzm's first pic on this page is the closest one yet to natural toning.

Storm Chaser | 01-09-2010 01:51 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin I think I am going to try this on an OPM 1 ounce bar. Would anyone be interested in a time laps video of the process?

lumpOgold | 01-09-2010 02:53 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin 2 Attachment(s) Here's a couple of favorites from my collection, they have quite beautiful rainbow toning, and the photos don't do them justice. the obverse looks almost pristine, so these were likely ends on rolls or stacked in a bank vault bag. They are both 1887 MS63 (one is a series coin, but that belongs in the numismatic thread) slabbed PCGS coins and I'm pretty confident that they are real! :s1:

Iptuous | 01-09-2010 11:14 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin I'm doing a scruffy SAE right now... Somebody should buy a brand new one. 2009 (the '10s arent out yet, right?) and then see how much you can fleece somebody for on eBay! like my used car salesman uncle always said, "there's a butt for every seat!"

madfranks | 01-09-2010 12:19 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 2116100) I intend to use three different amounts of yolk to compare!!! And my team here will see what happens! I can't take pics that are worth posting but I will let you know what we see........
I could be wrong on this but I think it's actually the egg white that has the sulfur... good luck however you do it! Here's a site I found with other ideas: http://www.coinsite.com/content/orig...c/p0000080.htm Quote:
ARTIFICIAL TONING The following information is provided for educational purposes only. I encourage users of this information to experiment with the various recipes in order to better learn what artificial toning (both poorly and well done) looks like. I must also caution users of this information that it is highly unethical to knowingly sell an artificially toned coin without making that fact known to the buyer. 1) Cigar or cigarette smoke, directed at a coin's surface will produce a light brown tone. Frequent repitition of this proceedure will produce darker browns. (tip-off....smell the coin!) 2) Place a coin in a paper coin envelope, bake for 30 minutes in a 300 degree oven. The coin will be a bit dull, but have taken on shades of purple, yellowish-green, or dark blue. "Over-cooked" coins can appear dull dark gray/blue/black. (tip-off...dull surfaces). 3) A weak sulphur solution, diluted with alcohol or water, will yield gold, golden-brown towns. A stronger solution will yield deep purplish-blue tones. Too strong a solution will yield gunmetal gray surfaces. This is a very deceptive method if "done right". 4) Coat a coin with corn oil, and bake inside a foil wrapped baked potato. A purplish-blue, or orange color will result. 5) Brush a coins with a blend of motor oil and corn oil. Bake at 275-300 degrees for an hour. Deep blue/purple colors appear. 6) Make a solution of sulphur powder and alcohol. The sulphur powder will not dissolve...but that is okay. Dip a coin into the solution, and set the coin on a table. Set the alcohol on fire, and let it burn out. Repeated "burnings" yield varying shades of gold-brown-blue-purple-black. 7) Sulphur ointment (home brew = vaseline+sulphur powder) can be used to retone or touch up copper coins. 8) Coins painted with gun bluing solution can yield various shades of the color spectrum. 9) A coin soaked in dandruff shampoo, for a couple of days, can produce green, yellow, and brown colors. 10) Place a coin into a hot toaster or on a hot frying pan. It will eventually take on a dull gray or black color. 11) Placing a coin in a paper envelope, or plastic holder...or a sealed proof set...in a sunny windowsill for a long period (1 to 3 months) will eventually result in a variety of colors. The coins may look "sick" or faded though. 12) Submerge a coin in a weak solution of sulphurated potash (liver of sulphur) for 5 seconds. Various colors can be had with each repeated dipping. 13) Place an inexpensive gold coin in a jar of "jeweluster " coin dip. Let sit for a couple of weeks. Dipping silver coins in this new "smart dip" will give the a golden tone. So grab a few Washington Quarters....they are great to experiment with.....and try a few of these. But be careful not to burn, electrocute, or poison yourself with this stuff!!

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RealJack | 01-09-2010 01:21 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin I've gotten some varied toning results by blasting the coin with a butane torch lighter. Kind of fun on a cold gray day, but be careful, that coin gets real hot and stays that way for some minutes. This is a cool thread. Thanks, madfranks...

Storm Chaser | 01-09-2010 03:06 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Damn Camera ran out of batteries in the midst of the film. Not too happy with the bar's toning. Will try again with a SAE tonight and maybe add a bit of air in there too? I have been pressing the air out before I seal it. Anyone think it would be a cool idea to cover the Silver with paper and tape and leave a design exposing the silver on the rest of the piece?

madfranks | 01-09-2010 03:09 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Chaser (Post 2117423) Damn Camera ran out of batteries in the midst of the film. Not too happy with the bar's toning. Will try again with a SAE tonight and maybe add a bit of air in there too? I have been pressing the air out before I seal it. Anyone think it would be a cool idea to cover the Silver with paper and tape and leave a design exposing the silver on the rest of the piece?
I think the egg method is pretty crude and is giving some of us a lot more "tarnish" than toning. A couple posts back I posted some alternate methods which I'm going to start trying when I get some of that liquid sulfur solution. If anybody has kids in gradeschool, this would make a pretty sweet science fair project, imo.

Storm Chaser | 01-09-2010 03:17 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin ^Actually my little sister has to do something like that here in the spring. You just plugged in the lamp for the light bulb over my head. Thanks man. Also I know the egg way is crude, but my eagle is so damn pretty. The next one I am doing is for the time lapse I think it would be cool to see the process of corrosion.

user244075 | 01-09-2010 05:34 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin This is an interesting topic. As an example I've seen some Silver Eagles on Ebay with premiums because of toning. But.... they are only a few years old, too many either from the same seller or others look alike, and the toning is more than likely from a torch. How does a few year old Silver Eagle get a black toning on one side so uniformly black and then you see three about the same? I doubt nature is like that.

Master_Ho | 01-09-2010 08:14 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 2117180) I could be wrong on this but I think it's actually the egg white that has the sulfur... good luck however you do it! Here's a site I found with other ideas: http://www.coinsite.com/content/orig...c/p0000080.htm
In that case I'll try one with just the white!

SLV>GLD | 01-09-2010 08:53 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin I'd be willing to bet money the highest concentration of sulfur is in the yolk. Elemental sulfur is yellow, folks.

Master_Ho | 01-09-2010 09:02 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 2117997) I'd be willing to bet money the highest concentration of sulfur is in the yolk. Elemental sulfur is yellow, folks.
That's what I thought too - back to three different levels of yolk!! Thanks!

Iptuous | 01-09-2010 09:06 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 2117997) I'd be willing to bet money the highest concentration of sulfur is in the yolk. Elemental sulfur is yellow, folks.
that's what i assumed, and so i only put mine in there with the yolk. sat forever with barely any toning occurring. so then i put some white in and it was turning dark within minutes. now it could be that there was simply some saturation level that had to occur before the toning would show, but it was pretty compelling evidence to me that it is the white. sniff the yolk separately and it doesn't smell nearly as sulphurous as the white alone. my results were a very dark toning. how do you get the irridescent without the black? silver oxide is black right? so im assuming it's the other chemicals that cause the other colors.... i'm not to up on my metalurgical chemistry. i'll have to ask my chemist friend. i'm wondering if putting an oxy absorber in with the egg might make the colors but inhibit the black?

Junk Woody | 01-10-2010 01:37 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin My eggtempt :cry1: http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...r/P1020939.jpg http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...r/P1020945.jpg

lumpOgold | 01-10-2010 05:08 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Junk Woody (Post 2118360) My eggtempt :cry1:
haha, :23_28_100s:

rodzm | 01-10-2010 05:47 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Has anybody try separating the yolk from the white and placing the coin directly in the whites liquid as opposed to cooking the egg. It would be interesting what the results are when placing insde the yolk, whites and egg and yolk combined

Iptuous | 01-10-2010 12:21 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin also, i'm wondering about how the ripeness of the egg effects the outcome. after all, a rotten egg has seriously more sulfuric outgassing than a fresh one, no? and even if it's not rotten, an older egg will give you srsly more powerful farts, no?

Tallships | 01-10-2010 12:39 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Has anyone tried black powder?

RealJack | 01-10-2010 02:04 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin When I put the hot egg in the ziplock bag condensation occurred on the coin and created a mottled splotchy effect where the water droplets sat, mostly in black, brown, copper and yellowish tones....... No rainbows or little ponies for me.

Master_Ho | 01-11-2010 01:33 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Hi guys - just letting you know, I didn't poop put on ya......my research was side-lined by a really crappy flu - but I have been reading, and will run a few tests soon...... Anyone got any ideas about the condensation problem?

GoldWampum | 01-11-2010 01:59 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Enjoying this thread. Nice work.

Mr. Shiny | 01-11-2010 04:44 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 2118026) that's what i assumed, and so i only put mine in there with the yolk. sat forever with barely any toning occurring. so then i put some white in and it was turning dark within minutes. now it could be that there was simply some saturation level that had to occur before the toning would show, but it was pretty compelling evidence to me that it is the white. sniff the yolk separately and it doesn't smell nearly as sulphurous as the white alone.
You are correct, the albumin (white) of the egg contains twice as much sulfur as the yolk. The sulfur in the egg is in the amino acids (building blocks of life) also known as protein, the majority of which is the egg white. The yolk is just an unfertilized chicken embryo. For a Vegan tone, try onion, brussel sprout or cabbage. All are high sulfur foods.

goldwish | 01-11-2010 05:20 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 2119974) Hi guys - just letting you know, I didn't poop put on ya......my research was side-lined by a really crappy flu - but I have been reading, and will run a few tests soon...... Anyone got any ideas about the condensation problem?
could try desiccant packs? that would take away some O2 and H20 it's the sulphur gases we're after anyways right? maybe that will cut down on the black oxidation.

Iptuous | 01-11-2010 05:44 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Shiny (Post 2120770) For a Vegan tone, try onion, brussel sprout or cabbage. All are high sulfur foods.
When my wife discovered the coin in a ziplock with a smooshed egg and inquired, "wtf?", i explained. she immediately suggested wrapping in cabbage. we tried it, and i think it did give a little bit more rainbow, but the black oxidation was already so dark it didn't show much. i took some brasso to it and made it shine, and now i think i will try the cabbage leaf again...

Master_Ho | 01-11-2010 06:36 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 2120874) she immediately suggested wrapping in cabbage. we tried it, and i think it did give a little bit more rainbow
Now, So I am clear - you are suggesting we try this JUST in cabbage, not in a baggie or with an egg??? For how long??

Iptuous | 01-11-2010 06:38 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Curses! My wife make cabbage and sausage with it today!:realmad: . . . . mmmmmm...... cabbage and sausage......http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitter_prod...l-2_normal.jpg

goldwish | 01-11-2010 06:54 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin kim chee silver bullion. sounds like a menu item :p

Iptuous | 01-11-2010 09:36 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 2120960) Now, So I am clear - you are suggesting we try this JUST in cabbage, not in a baggie or with an egg??? For how long??
well, we just took a cabbage leaf and wrapped the coin in it. and then placed it in teh ziplock. i kinda pressed it a bit between my hands, but after opening it up, i found that that didn't do a whole lot as far as crushing the leaf anyways... i left it in there for a couple hours. it was probably an hour at least before the leaf even reached room temp. i imagine you could leave it in there over night no problem. I have put a layer of the chopped up cabage from the crock pot into a plastic container and suspended the coin above it using an ingenious paper clips fashioning... it's been in there for a few hours. I opened it up after it had cools to wipe the condensation of the coin.... No effect yet at all. It's shinier then when i started, since it's been polished...

Tater10 | 01-11-2010 09:55 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin i taped 1/2 of a dime and toned from there. Thinking about toning just the sun and rays on an SAE, cover the rest with tape. Dime on left was in for 2 hrs, cooked it too much. Dime on right was only 20 minutes, never developed. http://www.taters.net/dimes_NEW.jpg

madfranks | 01-15-2010 09:14 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin 3 Attachment(s) So I found a bottle of liquid liver of sulfur: http://cdn.dickblick.com/items/605/05/60505-OA2ww-m.jpg And decided to play around with it to see what I could get. I tested about 10 mercury dimes, here are the three that best illustrate the results. I made a diluted solution of 1 cup warm water and 1/2 teaspoon of the liquid sulfur. I took a q-tip and gently painted the top of one of the mercs, and I ended up with the golden colored one. In the same solution, I dipped a merc for about 5 seconds and rinsed it off, it became a dull gray color with hints of blue/purple. I took a rubbing alcohol pad out of a first aid kit and painted some liquid sulfur on it using a q-tip. I rubbed the face of the merc with the alcohol/sulfur pad and set the merc on the pad, and lit it on fire until it burned out. I got the most color this way, but it's a little harsh, and obviously not natural.

Iptuous | 01-15-2010 11:38 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin slick! where'd you find the liver of sulfur?

madfranks | 01-15-2010 11:46 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin I bought it online after searching all my local art and hobby shops to no avail: http://www.dickblick.com/products/li...0505-1004-2386 And by the way, when you open that little bottle, it smells like concentrated rotten eggs. It's very potent stuff, I had to open a window!

Iptuous | 01-15-2010 11:48 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin I bet... does it smell as bad as those stink bombs that are the glass vials with yellow liquid in them? hell, maybe that's what it is....

madfranks | 01-16-2010 03:20 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin 2 Attachment(s) I took 1/4 cup of rubbing alcohol (50% alcohol by volume) and put in two drops of the liquid sulfur. I dropped one drop of the solution on the merc and made sure the liquid covered the full face of the coin. I let it sit for about 30 seconds and then I put a lighter to the coin, let it burn out (~10 seconds of burning), and look at this beautiful blue toning!

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lumpOgold | 01-16-2010 03:40 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 2130342) I took 1/4 cup of rubbing alcohol (50% alcohol by volume) and put in two drops of the liquid sulfur. I dropped one drop of the solution on the merc and made sure the liquid covered the full face of the coin. I let it sit for about 30 seconds and then I put a lighter to the coin, let it burn out (~10 seconds of burning), and look at this beautiful blue toning!
How does your house smell after that treatment? :wink: I hope anyone that wants to repeat this is doing it outside! :smile:

madfranks | 01-16-2010 04:46 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by lumpOgold (Post 2130370) How does your house smell after that treatment? :wink: I hope anyone that wants to repeat this is doing it outside! :smile:
Lol, I did it in my garage. That liquid sulfur solution is quite smelly. :ok:

Curmudgeonista | 01-16-2010 05:38 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by AGRO (Post 2114680) For some reason i don't think you can achieve the same results as a "true" toned coin/bar. Toning can be quite even in color and formation. It is usually not splotchy and sloppy looking. More like the bands of a rainbow... ...People that collect toned coins might know automatically that the toning on your initial coin pic is forced.
Serious collectors of toned coins should know the difference, but not everyone who likes them is always able to distinguish AT from NT... hence the ongoing debate over whether specific examples on the market are NT or AT. As a seller, it's only right to divulge toning to be artificial if one knows that to be the case. As a buyer, every one of us would like to be able to expect the same consderation, though we don't always get it. Same goes for cleaned coins.

Master_Ho | 01-17-2010 12:20 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeonista (Post 2130519) Serious collectors of toned coins should know the difference, but not everyone who likes them is always able to distinguish AT from NT... hence the ongoing debate over whether specific examples on the market are NT or AT.
Even PCGS can not always tell.......I have one they graded as "Questionable Toning"......we can suspect - but often can not be 100% certain.............

Ragnarok | 01-17-2010 09:36 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Madfranks, your post #90 - beautiful! I wouldn't care if it was real or artificial. btw, liver of sulfur = those good ol' grade school stinkbombs. :biggrin: R.

SLV>GLD | 01-17-2010 10:19 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Iptuous (Post 2129489) I bet... does it smell as bad as those stink bombs that are the glass vials with yellow liquid in them? hell, maybe that's what it is....
Stink bombs are ammonium sulfate. I do not know if liver of sulfur is ammonium sulfate or not.

Coin Finger | 01-18-2010 02:51 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Heres the results I got by placing a Franklin half in a Baggie That I had previously farted in!!!The secret is to eat 5 hard boiled eggs beforehand,,,Funny thing though, when my wife walked in the room,she also started to tone..kind of a greenish color!!!!:emotions16: http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...1&d=1263800461 :10_1_19:

newmisty | 02-09-2010 01:58 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Just came accross this after reading HS's link to Grading services. Is a good article with lot's of specifics and details. It helped me to understand quite a bit more than before! http://rg.ancients.info/guide/toning.html

HistoryStudent | 02-09-2010 01:40 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin TONING is sometimes really beautiful. But like AGE it might change over time. So IMVHO paying extra for toning is like paying extra for PUFFING: puffing n. the exaggeration of the good points of a product, a business, real property, and the prospects for future rise in value, profits and growth. Since a certain amount of "puffing" can be expected of any salesman, it cannot be the basis of a lawsuit for fraud or breach of contract unless the exaggeration exceeds the reality. However, if the puffery includes outright lies or has no basis in fact ("Sears Roebuck is building next door to your store site") a legal action for rescission of the contract or for fraud against the seller is possible. (See: fraud)

Metalophile | 02-13-2010 02:20 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Many years ago I had some silver plated serving spoons I had picked up at a garage sale. One evening I used one of them to spoon out some hot steamed rice, then I left the spoon buried in the pot of warm rice for an hour or so. When I retrieved it, it had some beautiful blue and iridescent toning. Anyone want to try some hot cooked rice instead of egg in your toning baggie? Should be a bit gentler than egg, as rice has much less protein.

user244075 | 02-13-2010 12:34 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin If anyone is bored they could compile a list. Do Chinese style like Metalophile mentioned with rice and I now add soy sauce. Mexican use salsa or beans, American use ketchup or Coca Cola, European use Kabasa/sausage or beer.

Master_Ho | 02-14-2010 01:56 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2171075) TONING is sometimes really beautiful. But like AGE it might change over time. So IMVHO paying extra for toning is like paying extra for PUFFING: puffing n. the exaggeration of the good points of a product, a business, real property, and the prospects for future rise in value, profits and growth. Since a certain amount of "puffing" can be expected of any salesman, it cannot be the basis of a lawsuit for fraud or breach of contract unless the exaggeration exceeds the reality. However, if the puffery includes outright lies or has no basis in fact ("Sears Roebuck is building next door to your store site") a legal action for rescission of the contract or for fraud against the seller is possible. (See: fraud)
The first line I agree with - and while playng with the toning is fun - there is no doubt in my mind that those toned over time are much more goregous. On the second line - well, there are many things in life that are worth more because they are "different", "better", "more in demand" (liquor, food, cars, women, to name a few! *lol*) and while we can debate the relative merits of toned coins and their pricing (and some are terribly over priced, in my opinion).....the reality seems to be that toned, especially nicely colored rainbows, aged over time, are in demand and get the higher premiums. And, I collect them because - not only are they in demand (in today's market, tho not always) and because I love them. I think of my collection as a small piece of history that I am merely a caretaker for until the time comes to sell. (They will not be making any more of these older coins!) I hope, in time, the premiums hold and when the time comes to sell, the toning will fetch a few extra bucks! But I do have a limit as to high how I will pay above the value of the coin itself. Cheers!

HistoryStudent | 02-15-2010 05:18 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 2178902) The first line I agree with - and while playng with the toning is fun - there is no doubt in my mind that those toned over time are much more goregous. On the second line - well, there are many things in life that are worth more because they are "different", "better", "more in demand" (liquor, food, cars, women, to name a few! *lol*) and while we can debate the relative merits of toned coins and their pricing (and some are terribly over priced, in my opinion).....the reality seems to be that toned, especially nicely colored rainbows, aged over time, are in demand and get the higher premiums. And, I collect them because - not only are they in demand (in today's market, tho not always) and because I love them. I think of my collection as a small piece of history that I am merely a caretaker for until the time comes to sell. (They will not be making any more of these older coins!) I hope, in time, the premiums hold and when the time comes to sell, the toning will fetch a few extra bucks! But I do have a limit as to high how I will pay above the value of the coin itself. Cheers!
I agree with you from your viewpoint. The most important thing we can learn in life is to see an issue from the other side. That said. I have my OWN (shall I can them silly for myself only) collectable coins: Gold Ancients before and around 2000 years ago. Pre-1799 Gold World Coins Huge SILVER coins That have a questionable future. I do by accident have a few slabbed silver US dollars that are toned. Thanks for your profound input. I'm still nervous http://www.moneymagik.com/scroll.jpg about buying something that a chemical reaction caused and the FOUR best coin company slabbers can NOT figure out (read 100% with a chemical paper type trail) for sure if they HAVE a recent concocted personal coin doctor catalyst scheme or a 50 to 100 year long time in the making from nature - so to speak. :23_28_100s:

Master_Ho | 02-15-2010 06:11 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2181311) I agree with you from your viewpoint. The most important thing we can learn in life is to see an issue from the other side.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> I SO agree - its what I teach and its the only way to learn - its part of that Tao thing - all points have two sides and even here, I am not sure we are in real disagreement, To me its more shades of grey, as we try to second guess the future coin markets. In fact, I suspect, on the topic of numismatics, you and I agree more than most others around here - we're almost always tag-teaming these threads.........and I have learned so much for you, and you have stimulated some great discussions in the numismatic area.........which is, in part, what keeps me sticking around these days! <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2181311) That said. I have my OWN (shall I can them silly for myself only) collectable coins: Gold Ancients before and around 2000 years ago. Pre-1799 Gold World Coins Huge SILVER coins That have a questionable future.
<o:p></o:p> I collect, in addition to other things, coins from around the world with dragons on them. Some have cost a bit, some a couple of bucks - I never think of that as part of my "investment" package - its my side hobby, a big cardboard box with lots of plastic envelopes with lots of dragon coins.........<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2181311) I do by accident have a few slabbed silver US dollars that are toned. Thanks for your profound input. I'm still nervous http://www.moneymagik.com/scroll.jpg about buying something that a chemical reaction caused and the FOUR best coin company slabbers can NOT figure out (read 100% with a chemical paper type trail) for sure if they HAVE a recent concocted personal coin doctor catalyst scheme or a 50 to 100 year long time in the making from nature - so to speak. :23_28_100s:
And that is a hugely valid point - but, the graders (at least PCGS) do have people who seem to sort out the bulk of the "doctored coins", I had two I was sure were sent back as "questionable color" (no charge). Our buddy Q. David Bowers talks about natural and doctored toning, but also conceeds that the market loves those coins and, at least for the present, there does not seem to be any drop in interest in them.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And hey - if the market DOES ever go down - just crack and dip em!!<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> :biggrin: <o:p></o:p> One of the interesting things to me about the coin show was looking at a lot of toned Morgans - and the prices they want for them - I noticed that mine seemed (to me and my party at least) as nice as the majority of the ones we saw ((for under five figured! *whew*)) That suiggested to me that I had chosen some good coins and, I told you I have a premium limit thats not very high, so I didn't pay too much and I suspect these will do well. Yours should do the same. I am not at all nervous about that..........and if gold and silver go as high as we think - they might be buying the coins for the metal alone and the hell with the toning....and we'd STILL do well!<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> However, in closing, I have to admit - I came home from the show somewhat depressed...........I mean, first of all - I never saw so much gold in one place at one time - slabs stacks feet high in all directions, hundreds of tables with hundreds, if not thousands of ounces for sale!!!! <o:p></o:p> I didn't realize how much more gold there was that I still had left to buy!!!! I thought I'd picked up most of it by now!<o:p></o:p> *depressed* *thinks - I sort of understand, now, those Avatar people who commit suicide after the movie because they can't live in a blue world* And then, with so much of it out there - how the hell can they call it rare..........I mean, rare is like a dozen pieces of something.........rare is like a painting by DaVinci, or a albino Chinese. or a woman who buys YOU dinner before taking you home and having her way with you..........<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Gold??? Pfffftttt...............about as rare as M&Ms. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> :sarcasm:

HistoryStudent | 02-15-2010 06:46 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 2181406) <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> I SO agree - its what I teach and its the only way to learn - its part of that Tao thing - all points have two sides and even here, I am not sure we are in real disagreement, To me its more shades of grey, as we try to second guess the future coin markets. In fact, I suspect, on the topic of numismatics, you and I agree more than most others around here - we're almost always tag-teaming these threads.........and I have learned so much for you, and you have stimulated some great discussions in the numismatic area.........which is, in part, what keeps me sticking around these days! <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> I collect, in addition to other things, coins from around the world with dragons on them. Some have cost a bit, some a couple of bucks - I never think of that as part of my "investment" package - its my side hobby, a big cardboard box with lots of plastic envelopes with lots of dragon coins.........<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And that is a hugely valid point - but, the graders (at least PCGS) do have people who seem to sort out the bulk of the "doctored coins", I had two I was sure were sent back as "questionable color" (no charge). Our buddy Q. David Bowers talks about natural and doctored toning, but also conceeds that the market loves those coins and, at least for the present, there does not seem to be any drop in interest in them.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> And hey - if the market DOES ever go down - just crack and dip em!!<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> :biggrin: <o:p></o:p> One of the interesting things to me about the coin show was looking at a lot of toned Morgans - and the prices they want for them - I noticed that mine seemed (to me and my party at least) as nice as the majority of the ones we saw ((for under five figured! *whew*)) That suiggested to me that I had chosen some good coins and, I told you I have a premium limit thats not very high, so I didn't pay too much and I suspect these will do well. Yours should do the same. I am not at all nervous about that..........and if gold and silver go as high as we think - they might be buying the coins for the metal alone and the hell with the toning....and we'd STILL do well!<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> However, in closing, I have to admit - I came home from the show somewhat depressed...........I mean, first of all - I never saw so much gold in one place at one time - slabs stacks feet high in all directions, hundreds of tables with hundreds, if not thousands of ounces for sale!!!! <o:p></o:p> I didn't realize how much more gold there was that I still had left to buy!!!! I thought I'd picked up most of it by now!<o:p></o:p> *depressed* *thinks - I sort of understand, now, those Avatar people who commit suicide after the movie because they can't live in a blue world* And then, with so much of it out there - how the hell can they call it rare..........I mean, rare is like a dozen pieces of something.........rare is like a painting by DaVinci, or a albino Chinese. or a woman who buys YOU dinner before taking you home and having her way with you..........<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Gold??? Pfffftttt...............about as rare as M&Ms. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> :sarcasm:
You KINDA got me on the TONED 5 figures offered coins. That's the BUG-A-BOO http://cgnow.com/cgnpics/HermieCamping.jpg It's hard for me to go NUMISMATIC Camping paying five figures for albeit beautiful toned silver coins. I have a heck of a HARD time paying over two grand for a 1/8 ounce of gold coin (like a $2.50 one) and when the Saints that I still needed went way over five grand I balked. That said I believe that one can find so many UNDERVALUED items if one looks hard enough. So the problem is finding that specific defination to YOU or ME of what that UNDERVALUED numismatic item might be, right? In other words what appears to be a great buy depending upon good guesstimates of the future herein albeit where we happen to live, right? I see that 10 trillion redistrubute the wealth FED printing US dollars FINALLY hitting the marketplace this year. That should cause a little inflation. Inflation is NOT prices going way up - frankly, it's the dollar going way down - a FALLING FALLING DOLLAR. Stagflationary HIDDEN Depression. :yes:

Master_Ho | 02-16-2010 02:32 AM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2181459) You KINDA got me on the TONED 5 figures offered coins. That's the BUG-A-BOO http://cgnow.com/cgnpics/HermieCamping.jpg It's hard for me to go NUMISMATIC Camping paying five figures for albeit beautiful toned silver coins. I have a heck of a HARD time paying over two grand for a 1/8 ounce of gold coin (like a $2.50 one) and when the Saints that I still needed went way over five grand I balked. That said I believe that one can find so many UNDERVALUED items if one looks hard enough. So the problem is finding that specific defination to YOU or ME of what that UNDERVALUED numismatic item might be, right? In other words what appears to be a great buy depending upon good guesstimates of the future herein albeit where we happen to live, right? I see that 10 trillion redistrubute the wealth FED printing US dollars FINALLY hitting the marketplace this year. That should cause a little inflation. Inflation is NOT prices going way up - frankly, it's the dollar going way down - a FALLING FALLING DOLLAR. Stagflationary HIDDEN Depression. :yes:
So we are VERY clear - I am having enough trouble putting out four figures for an ounce of gold - I NEVER put out more than three figures for ANY toned Morgan with one exception, a toned 1880/79-CC Reverse 1878 Overdate - MS 64....but I bought that as a Carson City, not so much a toned coin. The rest never more than a small percentage over its untoned value (lower hundreds). Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2181459) That said I believe that one can find so many UNDERVALUED items if one looks hard enough. So the problem is finding that specific defination to YOU or ME of what that UNDERVALUED numismatic item might be, right?
Exactly - some think the Peace dollar undervalued............I think maybe trade dolars are...........who knows........don't see much demand for either NOW - but tomorrow - who knows? Humans go thru "crazes" and then sour on the craze. In reading Bowers, the chapters on Market Directions and Future was a fascinating area but the hardest to second-guess..... Thing is - I have a registered set of silver eagles in MS70/69 (not all years had MS70's).......just got my newest for 2010 - guess what - it looks like the others........ The reason toned Morgans draw, IMO, is because not two are exactly alike........so people gravitate to them - they EACH have their own personality - as opposed to a handful of shiny Morgans that all look alike. Thats the best I can second-guess the thing.......but I do not collect for investment first - I collect to please ME!!! While I caretake these historic relics - I can enjoy what nature did to them and hope, down the road, someone else will feel the same way. But I collect other things as well..........rainbowed Morgans are more a guilty pleasure! And the falling dollar - you and I have both been calling for that for years............. Just the world's slowest trainwreck!!

eugene | 03-15-2010 07:40 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin would a bank fire be considered to be artificial or original toning? http://cgi.ebay.com/1947-D-Liberty-H...item3caaea597d http://img2.pict.com/30/8a/66/312733...0315183603.png http://img2.pict.com/5c/61/30/312731...ebankfireo.jpg http://img2.pict.com/21/d3/cd/312731...ebankfirer.jpg

SLV>GLD | 03-15-2010 07:54 PM
Re: How to artificially tone a silver coin eugene: that really depends. many times perceived and payed for value is in the story. a good story is valuable. if this coin were one of say 1000 in a historic bank fire with providence to show then that toning would be of historical significance. all you would need is someone willing to listen to the whole story, right?

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