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- - Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=456287)

esoteric | 03-16-2010 02:32 AM
Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit I am based in Asia and there no very much US gold over here but I spotted a 1908 $20 saint going for spot. its condition is quite worn and i approx low AU if that. They treat coins as spot over here. Anything i should be looking out for??? Weight is on: 33.4g Size compared to my 1907 saint is exactly the same. quite well done details, I checked the capital building and its pretty good. Please offer some things i should look out for in regards to counterfeit. If the size and weight is right then it should be ok? thanks for any help in advance! cheers

rodzm | 03-16-2010 03:36 AM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit I would not buy anything in your area for the simple reasons that unfortunately there are a lot of counterfeit coins coming out of Asia. You do not want to take a risk even if everything closely matches an original. My best advice is either buy a raw coin through a known online dealer or a graded coin by one of the leading TPGs. You can buy raw coins online in the 1200 range for a cleaned or polished coin or a almost uncirculated to uncirculated quality in the $1300 range. The counterfeits coming out of Asia are damn good and you do not want to throw down over 1100 on a coin to find out later it is a fake.

horseshoe3 | 03-16-2010 02:18 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit If it weighs right, measures right AND you are getting it at spot, there is very little risk. The only thing that could go wrong is if it is tungsten and that could happen to any of us anywhere buying anything. I'd go for it. The most likely problem is that it would be a counterfeit made from real gold. Even then, you got almost an ounce at spot.

HistoryStudent | 03-16-2010 02:34 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit I don't buy raw anymore since 2002 because of three BODY BAGS and TOE TAGS from both PCGS & NGC. (most were altered surfaces and one was WHIZZED, kinda like the Wizards in Washington, right?) I'm not worried about a PHONEY - I'm worried about all the DOCTORED ones that I've already bought by mistake - they l@@Ked grand, however. I was f@@Led, when I sent them in later I found out the hard facts of life... Burn me one; burn me twice; burn me three times...:thumb.aspx: NO MAS NADA NEVERMORE BYE-BYE SEE YOU LATER ALIGATOR Auf Wiedersehn Kiss my a$$ets NO MORE with trash... Slabbed okay other wise good physical that I can run through my stinkin' FISCH physical checker.:beer::Surrender:

Master_Ho | 03-17-2010 01:43 AM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2229226) Slabbed okay other wise good physical that I can run through my stinkin' FISCH physical checker.:beer::Surrender:
AGREED!!!!

esoteric | 03-19-2010 05:48 AM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit dont think theres a point in doctoring a 1908 st is there? Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2229226) I don't buy raw anymore since 2002 because of three BODY BAGS and TOE TAGS from both PCGS & NGC. (most were altered surfaces and one was WHIZZED, kinda like the Wizards in Washington, right?) I'm not worried about a PHONEY - I'm worried about all the DOCTORED ones that I've already bought by mistake - they l@@Ked grand, however. I was f@@Led, when I sent them in later I found out the hard facts of life... Burn me one; burn me twice; burn me three times...:thumb.aspx: NO MAS NADA NEVERMORE BYE-BYE SEE YOU LATER ALIGATOR Auf Wiedersehn Kiss my a$$ets NO MORE with trash... Slabbed okay other wise good physical that I can run through my stinkin' FISCH physical checker.:beer::Surrender:

TomD | 03-19-2010 09:05 AM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit For a worn non-numi coin going at spot with all dimensions and weight correct, I'd say you would be as safe as its possible to get. If you want more, get it acid tested.

HistoryStudent | 03-19-2010 11:25 AM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit Quote:
Originally Posted by esoteric (Post 2233711) dont think theres a point in doctoring a 1908 st is there?
An MS66 goes for a few bucks more than a MS64, so PERHAPS? $3700 versus $1900 and even $1900 is nearly double the spot; so at 4 times the spot? And if you were a tiny Chinese...:111::111::signs14:

prophet | 03-19-2010 08:38 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit Quote:
Originally Posted by rodzm (Post 2228518) I would not buy anything in your area for the simple reasons that unfortunately there are a lot of counterfeit coins coming out of Asia. You do not want to take a risk even if everything closely matches an original. My best advice is either buy a raw coin through a known online dealer or a graded coin by one of the leading TPGs. You can buy raw coins online in the 1200 range for a cleaned or polished coin or a almost uncirculated to uncirculated quality in the $1300 range. The counterfeits coming out of Asia are damn good and you do not want to throw down over 1100 on a coin to find out later it is a fake.
Does that mean i will NEVER be able to sell the dozens of coins that i bought through fleabay? :s10:

prophet | 03-19-2010 08:43 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit http://http://blogs.uct.ac.za/galler...odybuilder.jpg Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2234137) An MS66 goes for a few bucks more than a MS64, so PERHAPS? $3700 versus $1900 and even $1900 is nearly double the spot; so at 4 times the spot? And if you were a tiny Chinese...:111::111::signs14:
I am chinese........not tiny though.......:realmad: http://blogs.uct.ac.za/gallery/669/Bodybuilder.jpg http://http://blogs.uct.ac.za/galler...odybuilder.jpg

Buyingsilvers | 03-19-2010 09:57 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit Quote:
Originally Posted by esoteric (Post 2228488) I am based in Asia and there no very much US gold over here but I spotted a 1908 $20 saint going for spot. its condition is quite worn and i approx low AU if that. They treat coins as spot over here. Anything i should be looking out for??? Weight is on: 33.4g Size compared to my 1907 saint is exactly the same. quite well done details, I checked the capital building and its pretty good. Please offer some things i should look out for in regards to counterfeit. If the size and weight is right then it should be ok? thanks for any help in advance! cheers
If the weight is on, dimensions is on, I'd probably buy one for around spot even if I knew there was a chance it's cleaned or polished or a fake. IIRC, there was a bunch of well done st gaudens fakes that actually get a numis premium to some collectors.

esoteric | 03-23-2010 09:38 AM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit if it has been cleaned or polished what does that do to the price of the coin on re-sale?

MISRy | 03-23-2010 01:17 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit Quote:
Originally Posted by esoteric (Post 2239583) if it has been cleaned or polished what does that do to the price of the coin on re-sale?
As with any numi, if cleaned/polished you have nothing more than a certain quantity of PM in an attractive package.

Martian_Time_slip | 03-23-2010 01:37 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit How do you know if it was cleaned or polished?

HistoryStudent | 03-23-2010 06:41 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit Quote:
Originally Posted by prophet (Post 2234906) http://http://blogs.uct.ac.za/galler...odybuilder.jpg I am chinese........not tiny though.......:realmad: http://blogs.uct.ac.za/gallery/669/Bodybuilder.jpg http://http://blogs.uct.ac.za/galler...odybuilder.jpg
I thought your L@@KED fami"liar." I'm similar http://slowbreaker.com/images/20307.jpg Only I'm the LITTLE guy in DEPENDS who just lost to OBAMA! http://images.google.com/images?um=1..._rfai=&start=0 I'm depending on you to keep your END up! :signs14:

Traderbock | 03-23-2010 10:09 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit Pull your pants up. What is it with today's kids? I am wanting one myself, polished would be fine with me. Talking about the coins you understand.

esoteric | 03-23-2010 11:14 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit what???? ...................... Quote:
Originally Posted by Traderbock (Post 2240719) Pull your pants up. What is it with today's kids? I am wanting one myself, polished would be fine with me. Talking about the coins you understand.

esoteric | 03-23-2010 11:16 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit Quote:
Originally Posted by MISRy (Post 2239916) As with any numi, if cleaned/polished you have nothing more than a certain quantity of PM in an attractive package.
true. i think i would still prefer a 1908 st as compared to say a 2004. now just have to learn how to spot the ones which have been touched up.

HistoryStudent | 03-24-2010 10:20 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit Quote:
Originally Posted by esoteric (Post 2240819) true. i think i would still prefer a 1908 st as compared to say a 2004. now just have to learn how to spot the ones which have been touched up.
"I think they call that slabbed and with YOUR personal OPINION of an outstanding looking coin.":coolbeer: CAC before they PUT the sticker on it for an extra $400 dollars, that is...

esoteric | 03-24-2010 11:10 PM
Re: Buying a raw $20 saint for the first time....how to spot a fake/counterfeit these pre 1933 coins never stop fascinating me with how amazing they look. its 100 years old and still looking amazing. I have a 200year old $10 piece and holding it and looking at the frosted devices and luster is just kool. :beer: to our love for old coins...:wink: Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2242444) "I think they call that slabbed and with YOUR personal OPINION of an outstanding looking coin.":coolbeer: CAC before they PUT the sticker on it for an extra $400 dollars, that is...

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