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- - british sovereigns (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=126942)

mispillion | 04-13-2007 04:20 PM
british sovereigns 1 Attachment(s) the prevailing view here seems to be stay clear of 1/2, 1/4 and 1/10 fractional bullion coin because of the big markup. but what do you folks feel about british sovereigns? it's nice to be able to go to the coin shop and get some gold without paying a high premium on the fractionals or laying out 700$. i don't believe i've even heard them mentioned

Au_Ag | 04-13-2007 04:48 PM
Re: british sovereigns Like anything else here, there is not gonna be one answer- you will find people that say yea and others will say nay. Personally, I like sovereigns, guilders, Duestch Marks, and french francs. They are low premium incremental oz's, they are old, they are somewhat uniquie - I like old things, I like gold things, what could be better than the cheapest form of old gold things? IMHO, franklin sanders says it well about them - From http://www.the-moneychanger.com/commandments.phtml Why do you recommend older-issue, foreign fractional gold coins instead of modern issues or American Eagle fractionals? Modern issues like American Eagles, Maple Leaves, Philharmonics, and Nuggets include half, quarter, and tenth ounce coins: the smaller the coin, the higher the cost per ounce. With the smallest coins, premiums over the gold content approach 15%. That makes no economic sense because gold is gold. British sovereigns (containing 0.2354 troy ounce fine gold), French 20 francs (0.1867 oz.), Swiss 20 francs (0.1867 oz.), German 20 marks (0.2304 oz.), Netherlands 10 guilders (0.1947 oz.), the whole series of Mexican peso coins, and a number of other gold coins offer lower cost per ounce and good liquidity. Not recommended are gold coins so infrequently seen in this country that you will suffer a big discount when you sell them, such as Iranian Pahlavis (0.2354 oz.) or Saudi guineas (0.2354 oz.). If you can’t sell them, they’re not a bargain.

TomD | 04-13-2007 05:27 PM
Re: british sovereigns 1 Attachment(s) I bought several sovereigns, and a few 20 franc French and Swiss coins from APMEX a few weeks ago. Everything I got was in uncirculated condition and the premium wasn't much, around $20/ounce above spot at the time. I just checked APMEX and sovereigns are selling for a whole $14/oz premium. Good grief, that's about what you pay for Kugerrands, cheap gold. They, and the other older European fractionals, are good looking coins that go for almost no premium. I'd say buy a ton of them. Usually I've got pictures of everything I have but I haven't gotten around to these yet. The only picture I have is a 1896 French 20 franc "Lucky Angel" that I turned into a necklass for my wife.

goldminer | 04-13-2007 05:36 PM
Re: british sovereigns Depends on what country/geographical area you live in. In the US its been my experience that Sovereigns are a bit more liquid that other old world coins. The only drawback to them as well as all the other coins is that they contain uneven amounts of gold vs. even 1/25, 1/20, 1/10, 1/4 & 1/2. The upside is that they are readily recognized and accepted, contain (as you report) small amounts of Au, and trade close to spot. IMO opinion in their category they can't be beat...except by perhaps fractional Kruggerands, but these are few and far between and when found most always trade at a higher premium. And because diversification is important, don't just ignore the fracts. Eagles and Maples. Their liquidity, country of origin, and small gold content could be a real asset. Too, if you believe the price of gold is going to increase over the next 10-20 years, what difference will the premium you pay now make?

mispillion | 04-13-2007 06:21 PM
Re: british sovereigns Quote:
goldminer, TomD, Au_Ag
thanks for your input. think i'll take it easy and just go the sovereign route until a big gold correction happens, if it ever does again

Anty Ep | 04-13-2007 06:32 PM
Re: british sovereigns I bagged a 1/4 oz commemorative gold coin off ebay that was only a wee markup over spot incl s/h. Opportunities abound.

TomD | 04-13-2007 06:33 PM
Re: british sovereigns Quote:
Originally Posted by mispillion (Post 571956) thanks for your input. think i'll take it easy and just go the sovereign route until a big gold correction happens, if it ever does again
You mean a big enough correction that one oz gold coins are going for "affordable" prices? Another way of saying that is you will wait until fiat dollars are worth a lot more in terms of gold. Please don't hold your breath but, in the meantime, accumulate gold and silver in whatever amounts you can.

mispillion | 04-13-2007 06:45 PM
Re: british sovereigns Quote:
TomD - You mean a big enough correction that one oz gold coins are going for "affordable" prices? Another way of saying that is you will wait until fiat dollars are worth a lot more in terms of gold. Please don't hold your breath but, in the meantime, accumulate gold and silver in whatever amounts you can.
i have a good amount of 1 oz bullion coinage, but am unwilling to do giant puchases anymore. crossing my fingers on cashing out of my miners and sliding into bullion massively. timing, something i can't claim success in, will be critical. so many factors at play here.

negative1 | 04-13-2007 07:06 PM
Re: british sovereigns They just became my second favorite bullion coin. Just nice coins that you can't go wrong with. -1

mispillion | 04-13-2007 07:09 PM
Re: british sovereigns Quote:
negative1 - They just became my second favorite bullion coin. Just nice coins that you can't go wrong with.
i'll bite; what's your favorite?

negative1 | 04-13-2007 07:15 PM
Re: british sovereigns Krugerrands. -1

AuNuggets | 04-13-2007 09:19 PM
Re: british sovereigns Krugerrands and Sovereigns are THE two most recognized and traded gold coins on the planet. You can sell or trade them anywhere in the world on a moments notice. Both are lowest premium in their class (one ounce and fractionals) and a good bet on either end. There is good reason that American wartime pilots carried Sovereigns in their "survival kits". FWIW

GoldRocks | 04-13-2007 09:51 PM
Re: british sovereigns Quote:
Originally Posted by AuNuggets There is good reason that American wartime pilots carried Sovereigns in their "survival kits". FWIW
Weren't they typically sewn into their jacket lining or a pouch?

Au_Ag | 04-13-2007 10:52 PM
Re: british sovereigns Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldRocks (Post 572137) Weren't they typically sewn into their jacket lining or a pouch?
Nahh - they had a "pack" from http://www.amergold.com/vault/britis...reignkings.php Our British Gold Sovereign �Kings� were minted in the early 1900s, during the fabled era when �the sun never set on the British Empire.� From Britain to India, Canada to South Africa and Australia, these timeless gold pieces were indeed the world�s �coin of the realm,� trusted everywhere for their pure gold content and secure backing by the English crown. As daily trading gold pieces and stores of monetary value, they were -- and still are -- unsurpassed. In fact, Sovereigns are so universally accepted that they were included in the survival kits of American pilots during World War II and Desert Storm. <TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD align=left width=275>http://www.amergold.com/vault/Sovere...ivalKitBox.jpg</TD><TD align=right width=275>http://www.amergold.com/vault/Sovere...KitBoxInsi.jpg</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Here are pictures of an actual U.S. Naval Pilot survival kit from WWII. The outer case is a heavy, tire-like rubber that was sealed shut when issued. Approximate size is 3.5 in. by 4 in. Inside it contains three gold rings along with five gold coins: George V British sovereign (upper right), Victoria half-sovereign (upper center), Edward VII half-sovereign, French 20 franc Rooster (lower center), and French 20 franc Rooster (right center).

GoldRocks | 04-13-2007 10:55 PM
Re: british sovereigns Didn't know that. Cool.

Texan | 04-13-2007 11:15 PM
Re: british sovereigns Three or so years ago, when I first started seriously following PM's, I was interested in getting some Sovereigns (man, were they cheap back then). I never bought any, but I think my next gold purchase will finally be some old world gold! I've been a bit of a collector since a kid, and I always like to diversify, especially into neat historical items. Does anybody know the signifcance of the recurring .2354 oz weight coins, or any of the other odd weights? They don't even seem to convert into a nice even metric weight, so I'm curious why that is...

NUTS! | 04-13-2007 11:25 PM
Re: british sovereigns I regularly buy 1/2 and 1/4 maples as well as some European gold. I see no real problem with the markup. If I'm dollar cost averaging or want to split my weekly money between gold and silver, I'm definitely going to go fractional.

Au_Ag | 04-13-2007 11:26 PM
Re: british sovereigns Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan (Post 572206) Does anybody know the signifcance of the recurring .2354 oz weight coins, or any of the other odd weights? They don't even seem to convert into a nice even metric weight, so I'm curious why that is...
I've read the logic, but my recollection is somewhat hazy - perhaps someone will step in with better info - but I think somewhere around 1860s or so - the main european nations engaging in commerce at that time standardized the gold content of their coins along the lines of an agreement which had been reached to determine what the specific value should be for each nation- this was necessary for smooth conduct of business. You could then convert 20 francs, or gulders, or pounds or marks to a known quantity of gold. Prior to that time, other percentages were used, and these amounts varied. Every nation in history has debased their currency. The Romans were notorious for it. The period of the agreements outlined above were probably the only extended period of time that this has not occurred. To the best of my knowledge, these agreements did not last past 1933. Don't know how the mark fit into this during the Weimar period. Very interesting stuff.

PMan | 04-14-2007 03:28 AM
Re: british sovereigns Sovereigns are nice coins. Look for a low premium. Buy them until you have a nice tall stack. Krugs are my meat and potatos though. Maples are stunning, so buy some of those also. Don't forget to get some 1 oz silver rounds and some 10oz silver bars. Ok, ignore what I just told you and just concentrate on my first three sentences. -PMan

AuNuggets | 04-14-2007 10:33 AM
Re: british sovereigns I've found that most local coin dealers and pawn shops would rather "not" deal too much in Sovereigns or fractionals, and usually pass them along at close to spot, sometimes even below spot if they have several and just want to move them. "Not as popular" as the one-ouncers, but if/when gold reaches the $1K mark, you can bet there will be a scramble for the smaller gold coins. Then we will start to see the "nervous premium" applied..... :bear_cry:

AlwaysWrite | 06-02-2007 03:18 AM
Re: this weekend only In my experience, the premiums on sovereigns and other foreign fractionals makes them not worth it. I like gold that has the weight stamped on it, just in case you need to sell or trade it to someone who doesn't know much down the line. I also like the 1, 1/2, 1/4, and 1/10 fractionals - they make it very easy to count, trade, calculate value on the fly, etc. I can trade 2 half ouncers for a full ouncer if I need to, for example. I sometimes do this with friends. It would be tough with sovereings. I've also found deals on gold eagle fractionals - I even got some tenths for UNDER spot a couple times. And I've seen fractionals at coin shows for spot or a few bucks over per ounce. I can even find $5 or $10 Liberty head gold for a few bucks over spot. All that being said, if I could get sovereigns for cheaper than Krands, I would. But I can get Krands for spot or $6 over, and I've never seen sovereigns for a better price than that. And my Krands are one full oz, with the weight stamped on them. If you can get them for under spot, tho, go for it, and let me know where! :cheers: And yes, Krands are ugly as hell. The working man's gold.

CJul | 06-02-2007 06:14 AM
Re: british sovereigns I like sovereigns for lots of reasons. 1. They are lovely coins. 2. They have historical interest, and the different years and mints provide variety for the collector. 3. (Main reason). As the price of gold rises I believe the smaller coins will become more in demand. 4. They are instantly recognisable world-wide. 5. They are small enough to hide in a wallet or purse if you ever want to move around with them (see thread about moving PMs abroad). They are def my favourite gold coin.

TaxHaven | 06-02-2007 09:06 AM
Re: british sovereigns Hi CJul, I agree - sovereigns are in a class of their own! I wanted to ask, where is the thread about moving PMs abroad? Thanks,

Au_Ag | 06-02-2007 09:35 AM
Re: british sovereigns Quote:
Originally Posted by AuNuggets (Post 620203) Don't confuse "premiums" with "spreads".......two entirely different things. You have to consider more than just how close to spot you purchase. Fractional foreign coins are a good example. Most dealers will sell them at spot, BUT..........they will only buy them back at 2 to 5 percent under spot, which still leaves you with a 2 to 5 percent spread between the buy and sell, pretty much the same range as most full-ounce bullion gold coins. For example, right now, APMEX is buying Krugerrands at $651.40 and selling them (10 lot) at $661.35, effectively giving you a $9.95 or 1.5 percent spread. 2007 Maple Leafs in comparison carry a 3.35 percent spread, and random year Gold Eagles a 2.3 percent spread. And don't forget to add in your other costs such as postage and insurance. Still, in the greater scheme of things, I would rather buy the smaller coins if I expect a SHTF scenario (more divisibility = more trade oppoirtunities), or the lowest spread one ounce coins for in and out trading purposes. Krugerrands and Sovereigns fit the bill very well on both fronts, and if you can buy them at those levels locally without incurring taxes or shipping/insurance expenses, so much the better.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

grapejelly | 06-02-2007 10:18 AM
Re: british sovereigns I think sovereigns are in a class of their own. As good as krugerrands, perhaps better. True numismatic potential, collectibility and just plain bullion. I love them and they are a core part of my physical holdings. What I like about them is that I can justify owning them from a numismatic view. I can put them in coin books and I think this makes moving them easier as I am just another coin collector.

azxcvbnm321 | 06-15-2007 03:08 AM
Re: british sovereigns Be careful with the Austrian 100 Coronas. I thought they were the greatest coin ever because of the low markup and a next-to-nothing age premium on a BU coin dated 1915. I was sorta pissed when I found out that the coin had been minted recently and that it was backdated for "historical" accuracy. Oh well, I paid next to no premium or markup so I'm not that angry. I also bought a Sovereign dated 1905, and although there was a premium, it wasn't much greater than the premium on a new 1/4 ounce gold Eagle. I'm looking to buy more.

negative1 | 06-15-2007 09:42 AM
Re: british sovereigns Quote:
Originally Posted by azxcvbnm321 (Post 637995) I also bought a Sovereign dated 1905, and although there was a premium, it wasn't much greater than the premium on a new 1/4 ounce gold Eagle. I'm looking to buy more.
The only time that I paid more then $5 over spot was when I picked up the 7 mint set. That averaged out to $7.85 over spot per coin. Shop around there are some good deals out there. -1

jello_g | 06-15-2007 12:29 PM
Re: british sovereigns Candy.. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/18caecfb.jpg

AuNuggets | 06-15-2007 01:15 PM
Re: british sovereigns Hey Jello, that's a great photo ! Thanks for sharing.

AlwaysWrite | 06-15-2007 02:23 PM
Re: british sovereigns Those French Angel coins are interesting ... what are the premiums or buy/sell spreads usually on those? Are they pretty common?

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Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)
- Gold - Silver - Coins - Numismatics (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
- - british sovereigns (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=126942)

RossL | 06-16-2007 12:15 AM
Re: british sovereigns 7 Attachment(s) substantial number of sovs in my collection

CJul | 06-16-2007 06:34 AM
Re: british sovereigns Quote:
Originally Posted by RossL (Post 638758) substantial number of sovs in my collection
Nice ....... I don't have any QV ones in mine .... Was going to post some pics but can't find them ... watch this space ...

HistoryStudent | 06-16-2007 12:02 PM
Re: british sovereigns Sovereigns especially in MS condition(s) can be changed into NUMISMATICS via grading NGC/PCGS. :9536: :9536: :9536: Pretty NICE coins and premiums are rather low. That's what I've been picking up lately in volume. :applause_ :applause_ Grabbed 40 at around $550 for each four - graded them for around $20 each on-line fill out with NGC - and got 9 MS64; 10 MS63 & one MS62. Just sent in the rest and they were received withing two days in FL from CA. They will ship back to me in three working days. :9536: :9536: :9536: That sure beats PCGS (although they are a tad higher rated). Last time I used PCGS they took 9 weeks with 11 Saints - and graded them lousy at that. Although 60% of my coins are in PCGS slabs - I really like NGCs service a lot better. PCGS just gave me the fickle finger of fate when I asked for my extra coupons for their lousy service, too! :banghead:

azxcvbnm321 | 06-16-2007 02:18 PM
Re: british sovereigns Damn you for taking these coins off of the market permanently :grin: . I never buy numismatics because I have the nasty habit of touching and holding my coins and showing them off to various friends, most who have never held a gold or silver coin in their life. I thought of buying a nice Morgan silver dollar but more and more of the BU ones are being graded. I would have to break the damn holder and that might damage my coin. Is it easy to get your coin out of the holders? I've never held an encapsulated coin so I wouldn't know.

HistoryStudent | 06-17-2007 03:07 PM
Re: british sovereigns Quote:
Originally Posted by azxcvbnm321 (Post 639009) Damn you for taking these coins off of the market permanently :grin: . I never buy numismatics because I have the nasty habit of touching and holding my coins and showing them off to various friends, most who have never held a gold or silver coin in their life. I thought of buying a nice Morgan silver dollar but more and more of the BU ones are being graded. I would have to break the damn holder and that might damage my coin. Is it easy to get your coin out of the holders? I've never held an encapsulated coin so I wouldn't know.
A smart hammer blow (smart meaning POWERFUL) might do the dirty REMOVAL deed but why?

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