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money matters | 01-22-2004 01:59 PM
Confiscation BS from Broke.com Saw a new editorial at another site many of us migrated from. Not on his personal site yet, so I will not post it here. Same old trite crap about gold confiscation, Numismatic coins, and how since the "elite" like to play with numismatics the numies will be exempt. Yesterday, Steve Quayle on his Q-files show ranted about numie dealers and sales of numies to the unsuspecting. While he sells some bullion coins, Q said he got a call from a woman who bought $27K of numies 2 mos ago from a dealer who went nameless, but was said to run a shortwave broadcasting operation . Dealer now offers $17K to woman who wants to sell. Nice work, for the dealer. Nicer still to avoid being the steak on his table! Confiscation has not been ordered or discussed in Congress. The kind of propaganda crap this guy is slinging is pure fear. Anyone who calls themselves a "friend" of the PM community while touting numies as the solution to the non-problem of confiscation is no better than a midway shill steering the rubens to be fleeced. Any website that promotes this kind of "opinion" as a timely and valuable professional insight which is of benefit to the PM community, is full of shit and making merchandise of its followers. money matters

AuNuggets | 01-22-2004 02:34 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com AMEN.......I agree completely !! The numismatic hawks push their wares for one reason, and one reason only. Higher premiums = more profit for them. Numismatics are collectibles, NOT INVESTMENTS ! The ultimate end user is the collector, and when prices are pushed beyond reasonable levels by "investors", then the collector drops out of the game, and the market collapses ala early 70s, early 80s, and again post 1989 from which they have never fully recovered some 15 years later. The real problem is "ARBITRARY VALUES", with no real rhyme or reason at times. If you are interested in the metals, stick with content as you focusing point, not collectability. Numismatics are a suckers game at best, with "divised scarcity" for the most part. The few exceptions are the truly rare KEY pieces and earlier coins pre mid-1800s. Few modern era coins (post 1900) are "rare", or even "scarce" in actual numbers. The popular line with the confiscation crowd these days is that certain gold coins will be "exempt" from future confiscation efforts by the government, making it very clear that they are trying to scare potential investors into falling for the BS. The fact is, if the government wants to confiscate gold again (not likely as it is no longer considered "money" in official terms, and such a confiscation would send up red flags to the world that the dollar is toast), then what would keep the government from confiscating ALL of the gold? There is nothing concrete about ANY law, and they will change or re-arrange the "law" to suit their needs. Nothing will prevent them from taking the numismatics right along with the bullion if that's what they decide to do. They make the rules, they change the rules. A popular online radio program originating from the west coast that talks daily about the precious metals is recently harping on the "advantages and benefits" of buying pre-1933 Swiss Helvetia 20 Franc gold coins "at around $120" so that your gold won't be confiscated in the future. Considering these coins are trading regularly for near their gold content of .1867 oz. fine gold, or around $78 per coin, their "bargain price" is only $42 over gold content PER COIN, or like paying $642 per ounce for what is effectively BULLION. These coins are in no way, shape, or form "scarce" or "rare", and are available in huge quantities. Another good example of spreading the bull, and raking in the sucker's money......... Anytime you go to a "bullion dealer" seeking metals for the cheapest price and maximum content, and the dealer begins to tout numismatics in any form, best advice is to turn and go elsewhere. Such dealers have THEIR best interest in mind, and not yours.

hoarder | 01-22-2004 03:21 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com There may be two seperate motives at work in the confiscation scare tactics. #1) selling numismatics at a high premium on the premise that it is exempt from confiscation. #2) PM price supression by TPTB. What better and cheaper way to supress gold and silver than to suggest these investments will be confiscated? I would suggest scrutinizing the dealers who use these tactics to guage if they have any connection with TPTB.

Buster | 01-22-2004 05:28 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com I couldn't agree with you more. You think Droke works for Goldman Sachs?

gpond | 01-22-2004 05:38 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Personally, I do fear that a confiscation may occur. However, I agree completely with the other posters in this thread that using this pitch to sell "numies" is not cool. I'm not a great student of history, but I am under the impression that the gold has been confiscated many many times before in many different civilizations. Can anyone correct me on this?

StreetMind | 01-22-2004 10:33 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Agree. Believe there is much more risk in their messing with the deferred accounts than with confiscation of PMs in the near future. StreetMind

lhslancers | 01-22-2004 10:38 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com The biggest rip-off going in the pm market today and always has been this bull$hit about semi-numismatic coins. This guy at a large dealer in Cali. tried to push $10 Indians on me. The mintage on this thing was over 5 million. This is a rare coin? One big hustle IMHO. You are either buying bullion or a truly rare coin or you're buying bull$hit.

Maple Leaf Steve | 01-22-2004 10:53 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Good Posting AuNuggets I agree 100% with what you just said. On that radio program they are also telling people that GW Bush's "Patriot Act" is being used to get names of people from bullion dealers who they have sold gold to. So that if the Federal Government ever has to confiscate gold again from the people in this country that they will have handy a nice "starters list" before the game even begins. MLS

gpond | 01-23-2004 05:36 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Originally Posted by Maple Leaf Steve Good Posting AuNuggets I agree 100% with what you just said. On that radio program they are also telling people that GW Bush's "Patriot Act" is being used to get names of people from bullion dealers who they have sold gold to. So that if the Federal Government ever has to confiscate gold again from the people in this country that they will have handy a nice "starters list" before the game even begins. MLS
But they DO have a "starters list", don't they? As I posted before, I'm not pushing numismatics, and using scare tactics to do so is something I would detest. However, I have seen nothing in this thread or others to even begin to convince me that confiscation will not occur -- AS IT HAS occurred many many times in the past. I don't relish these thoughts -- they scare crap out of me.. Still waiting for someone to give good reasons why it won't happen this time. So far I say, in desperate times if it fits the power interests, they will do it, as they always do. Hoping I'm wrong, and waiting for someone to tell me why I am wrong. :banghead:

Buster | 01-23-2004 09:35 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com For what it's worth... God I's sick of seeing the forums inundated with confiscation talk. That said, I don't blame people for being scared. I would ask you all to visualise confiscation for a moment, at its worst, because I believe that is what we are really concerned with. We are concerned that the jackboots are gonna kick the doors in, ransack the house and comb the backyard with the latest metal detectors, with you and your family standing in the living room wondering if all that you hold dear is about to be taken away. I hate this, but I guess we need to "go there" just for the sake of what if. If it ever gets to that point, you have to figure the home invaders will not stop with your bullion; while they're at it, they might as well take the jewelry, any loose cash, and while they're at it, why not the car, the boat and the house? Because once they start grabbing, they will not stop. Should this nightmare script actually play out, life in America will not be worth living. It would mean the end for everyone, one way or another. Do I believe this will come to pass? I certainly hope not, and I do not believe that it will. But it could. Unless utter chaos is what TPTB are after, they would not light a fuse that would bring about the end of what we love about America: such as the expectation that the rule of law will prevail, that we do not live in a predator-filled jungle, that we are safe in our persons and possessions, and that our very homes and families are safe from invasion from our own government. That is what we all expect of America, so why are we cringing in fear that it is no longer so? I think it is because there are people coming onto these forums and suggesting the worst, and that we should be very afraid. I say horse$hit, because when you get right down to it, tomorrow is never guaranteed. All you have is today, so live it in joy, and do not fret about all the things that could conceivably happen. Sorry for the rant.

gpond | 01-23-2004 09:51 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Buster, Your rant is OK and appropriate. I'm not fear mongering personally, but planning could be in order. I don't see door-to-door searches necessarily. Instead I would imagine that they would simply make it illegal to own and everyone would be "required by law" to come forward. There might be some jack booted thugs making a few examples of a few folks...

gpond | 01-23-2004 09:56 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Originally Posted by gpond Buster, Your rant is OK and appropriate. I'm not fear mongering personally, but planning could be in order. I don't see door-to-door searches necessarily. Instead I would imagine that they would simply make it illegal to own and everyone would be "required by law" to come forward. There might be some jack booted thugs making a few examples of a few folks...
I got interrupted so didn't finish.. If they made it illegal then you would have a choice to comply or be a criminal. I truly hope it doesn't come to this. Sorry you are sick of hearing about it. I think it is an important topic to consider. Keep your heads down, friends. Blend in and look like a sheeple... That's all I know to do. gpond :sheep:

IrishGold | 01-23-2004 10:01 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Still waiting for someone to give good reasons why it won't happen this time. So far I say, in desperate times if it fits the power interests, they will do it, as they always do. Hoping I'm wrong, and waiting for someone to tell me why I am wrong.
These are why you are wrong!

hoarder | 01-23-2004 10:04 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Buster, TPTB select people with the authoritarian personality disorder to promote as JBT's. Therefore, to some degree, JBT's must feel they are on the side of righteousness and law. This may prevent them from walking away with 14 year old girls along with the gold. JBT's for the most part have the attitude that they don't make the laws, just enforce them. They are not thinkers nor true thugs. They are puppets. But I agree that we should not be intimidated by rumors of unconstitutional actions on their part. As long as the internet is free, they know they can't pull this one over on us, not confiscation or makind it illegal to hold. The Constition and open discussion on forums is very intimidating to them, as their numbers are few. By holding our metals without fear, we weaken their corrupt system.

Buster | 01-23-2004 10:27 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com GPond, No need to be sorry. All I'm getting at is that the PM shorts want the longs to be second-guessing themselves, as they are less likely to stay long. We are helping them by giving the confiscation issue more energy. The more we keep that ball in play, the more they smile. OK, we all know it could happen, and that it could take various forms. So take necessary precautions and move on...no need to overkill this thing. Every time the metals start to move, the same folks start a confiscation thread. Ignore it. I think the people the shorts are concerned with are the newbies who weren't around earlier and cannot discern all the old hat stuff. Nothing like confiscation talk to scare them off. I would much prefer to think about the smile on the long's faces when the metals really fly. Ye-hah!

hoarder | 01-23-2004 11:24 AM
Fear versus Fear TPTB have more to worry about than we do. The sheep are waking up about fiat money. Last week I recieved in change a 5 dollar bill with the handwritten words: "backed by thin air". It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the danger of losing everything to fiat collapse is far greater and harder to guard against than attempts to "confiscate" our secure possesions. The more we tell people about the "federal" reserve and fiat money, the weaker their position to get political support for stealing our PM's. The internet is on our side, use it.

RAZ | 01-23-2004 12:30 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Hey IrishGold, them's some pretty toys! This confiscation thing has always bothered me too. Yes, there is a long history of "authorities" confiscating PMs when it seemed to suit their interests. FDR being the latest example right here in the good ol' US of A. Burying your PMs is a good way to avoid confiscators. Of course, this means that you will have to necessarily don the mantle of the evil scofflaw. This act of non-compliance could get you a cage at the Guantanemo Hilton (no visits from Paris either!) with the more horrifying classification of terrorist (see paytriot akt I). I may be off the mark here (won't be the first time, so I am willing to take the risk) but, perhaps it's time to engage in a "private trade network". What I mean by this is a network of people who are willing and able to both pay and accept PMs for goods and services. Some people who build or retail toys like IrishGold pictured above are willing and able to engage in such trade. Obviously the folks here and on similar boards are capable and well-practiced in "running the numbers" to achieve equivalent valuations for goods and services. No one here is willing, at least at this point, to pay a 1oz. silver round for a loaf of bread. Maybe for a bottle of wine but, not for a loaf of bread. I am talking about actual, physical bullion. Not those Norfed bucks or digital currencies. It must be physical to avoid surveillance and supervision by Uncle Sham. Obviously this would have to be treated as a developing practice. There would be many limits as to what goods and services you could purchase now simply due to problems with people accepting PMs as currency. Burger King is not prepared or willing to "have it your way" by using PMs as currency. However, your local used car dealer might work with you. You must also accept the idea for now that there will no change back from your 1oz. round until such time as other metals are accepted into the growing currency scheme. If you are already a manufacturer, retailer or offer a service are you willing to accept PMs as payment for your goods or service? If not, why not? Do you know your mint marks and alloys? Do you have a set of scales? Do you know your customers well enough? Tie you valuations to the dollar/PM spot price because many customers still value items in dollars so use their standard of reference. You'll probably need to regularly adjust your pricing until stable values are reached or the dollar dies. As people see that this currency actually works and works well and realize the fraud and ever-depreciating value that the dollar represents they will be more likely to hang on to their PMs and resist attempts at confiscation. Some people, maybe even some of you here, already engage in this practice of using PMs as currency. It's limited for now but, it is growing. If HyperTiger and others are correct in their predictions of economic collapse, the dollar will worthless as a currency. PMs will be pressed into service as a currency. Unfortunately, it will most likely be in the form of jewelry rather than bullion sa jewelry is more commonly held. It would probably be a wise idea to get accustomed with alternative currencies and valuation prior to the onset of a disaster and the use of PMs as a currency would be a simple and relatively easy way to do it while we still have legal access to bullion. Anyway, just an idea to chew on. RAZ

money matters | 01-23-2004 12:36 PM
Re: Fear versus Fear As the fiat money system is the SUPREME CONFISCATION PLAN, why does anyone think TPTB will forget about the real deal, and leave that on the table as they loot their vassals and serfs? Our leaders forget (if they ever recognized), that our "rights" under the constitution were conferred by God, not by the state. THEY ARE INALIENABLE! It is pretty sad when an auto tag motto must be touted as a philosophical hallmark but, LIVE FREE OR DIE says it all. The Bastards pushing sovereigns or any other junk they price at 15% plus over spot, are simply chiselers who give real money a bad name. Anyone who thinks they have a "Kings-X" because they paid for a "collectable" is a fool. I just hope they also have their "get out of jail free card" on them when they are arrested. I say Cliff Droke is ill advising his readers. He should also inform them that they truly need to buy a Monopoly game for each member of the family so each can get out of jail free and collect $200 as they pass go. Money Matters

gpond | 01-23-2004 12:40 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishGold These are why you are wrong!
No offense, IrishGold, and in fact you may be right... But I got one word for you: Waco.

Maple Leaf Steve | 01-23-2004 03:48 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com 1 Attachment(s) I think we should discuss confiscation issues on these forums. Some people don't like discussing these issues and thats fine. I've been collecting coins since 1968. I've been shallow water metal detecting in lakes since 1990. BTW Nice forum you guys have here. MLS

hoarder | 01-23-2004 03:59 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com The power of suggestion is far more powerful than people realize. Since this force has been in the hands of TPTB, they have chosen to keep us ignorant of it's power so that they could continue to use it against us. Let's use the power of suggestion to point out to everyone we meet just what fiat money is backed by. This would be wise use of our weapon. This is a monetary war! The GIMs against the fiats! Let's be careful with that "c" word, it can only harm us. Good catch, Steve.

IrishGold | 01-23-2004 04:11 PM
Re: Fear versus Fear Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarder ..................SNIP The sheep are waking up about fiat money. Last week I recieved in change a 5 dollar bill with the handwritten words: "backed by thin air". ...............SNIP...................
Hey! I like this!!!! From now on, every bill I hand out will be marked, BACKED BY THIN AIR I may even have a rubber stamp made for this!!!!

IrishGold | 01-23-2004 04:28 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Originally Posted by gpond No offense, IrishGold, and in fact you may be right... But I got one word for you: Waco.
Yes gpond, it very well may mean another Waco or another Ruby Ridge or even something even more heavy handed than either one of those atrocities. However, they can not send a LEA to your door until it is against the law to own PM's and the "grace period" is over for turning them in. Starting from the time we get the first reports on the internet, of them even talking about signing that into law, and the knock on the first door for refusal, will be many, many weeks if not many, many months. Plenty of time to "make provisions" for not owning any when the time comes for it to be necessary.

HistoryStudent | 01-23-2004 05:41 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Originally Posted by money matters Saw a new editorial at another site many of us migrated from. Not on his personal site yet, so I will not post it here. Same old trite crap about gold confiscation, Numismatic coins, and how since the "elite" like to play with numismatics the numies will be exempt. Yesterday, Steve Quayle on his Q-files show ranted about numie dealers and sales of numies to the unsuspecting. While he sells some bullion coins, Q said he got a call from a woman who bought $27K of numies 2 mos ago from a dealer who went nameless, but was said to run a shortwave broadcasting operation . Dealer now offers $17K to woman who wants to sell. Nice work, for the dealer. Nicer still to avoid being the steak on his table! Confiscation has not been ordered or discussed in Congress. The kind of propaganda crap this guy is slinging is pure fear. Anyone who calls themselves a "friend" of the PM community while touting numies as the solution to the non-problem of confiscation is no better than a midway shill steering the rubens to be fleeced. Any website that promotes this kind of "opinion" as a timely and valuable professional insight which is of benefit to the PM community, is full of shit and making merchandise of its followers. money matters
Droke could work for the two stooges on TV he is so negative. The last confiscation was at the banks when gold was RECOGINIZED by everyone as money. That included the so-called raided "SAFE DEPOSIT" boxes that had paper FIAT FRN placed instead of the gold coin. Gold would immediately develope a black market trippling the price. By the way, where do you think all those UN-MELTED $10 and $20 dollar US gold pieces came from? Dumb and dummer must have forgot to turn them in, right?

Buster | 01-23-2004 06:01 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Well I don't know about you, but if I were asked to turn in my PMs, I certainly would. The only thing is, I don't have them anymore, because they were stolen. Yep, had 'em up in the closet in a box, and one day I noticed the box was gone. Just like that. Poof! It's OK though, I'm over it now, and don't have to think about that knock on the door...

Bobcat | 01-23-2004 06:13 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent Droke could work for the two stooges on TV he is so negative. The last confiscation was at the banks when gold was RECOGINIZED by everyone as money. That included the so-called raided "SAFE DEPOSIT" boxes that had paper FIAT FRN placed instead of the gold coin. Gold would immediately develope a black market trippling the price. By the way, where do you think all those UN-MELTED $10 and $20 dollar US gold pieces came from? Dumb and dummer must have forgot to turn them in, right?
You have got it right HS, if gold and silver were made illegal, the situation would resemble the illegal drug trade or alcohol during prohibition, including huge price increases. Making pm's illegal would also signal to everyone that the fiat gig was over, and increase pm holders resolve to protect their last chance of economic survival. There are not enough gov. agents to enforce anything if the people are defiant and resolute, they only have power when the people are compliant. I was in Nicaragua during the Sandinistas, and the gov. set the exchange rate at a fraction of what the blackmarket (freemarket) exchange was, and it was quite risky to trade on the freemarket, but you would be approached by business people anyway (not on the street). When peoples economic survival is on the line, chances will be taken.

IrishGold | 01-24-2004 10:45 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender Ya forgot one. I would just love to trip one of these just once.
Oh yeah! .50 caliber! If you listen to the Marines, it's a good long range sniper weapon. I believe Carlos Hathcock still holds the record for a confirmed kill with one of those. I'm not sure what the distance was, but I think it was over 2000 yards.

IrishGold | 01-24-2004 12:46 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender What I can gather up - Confirmed at 2500 yds. Confirmed = key word, as I am sure you know.
Yes, confirmed is the key. He stated that he knew his kills were actually over 200, but only 93 confirmed. I was going to say 2500 yds, but was not sure, and couldn't find the reference right away. For those reading this and not having a feel for just how far this is, it is just 420 feet short of one and a half miles!

rural_ghetto | 01-30-2004 12:50 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com I am relatively new here, but I wanted to throw in my $0.02. If one really thinks that coins with numismastic value will not be confiscated, why not purchase lower grade (VF or so) British Sovereigns? I have about a dozen of these, all of which I purchased for less of a premium than I would have paid for Eagles or Maples. Four of them I was able to purchase on an online auction site for under spot.

AuNuggets | 01-30-2004 01:53 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com @ rural_ghetto...... That is just the problem...... Those types of coins have no numismatic value, and a confiscation will go after whatever TPTB want, not necessarily just non-numismatic coins. And who do you think will determine what is "numismatic" and what is "bullion"? It sure won't be up to the collector to decide. They will look at the face of things, past values and sales records, and see that you paid near melt value, so you automatically have no arguement that these coins are "numismatic" in nature. Regardless of what the hypesters/dealers tell you about the pre-'33 European fractional gold coins, very few of them actually have any value above bullion content. You can regularly buy these coins in quantity at spot to 25 cents over spot, but alot of the internet and telemarketing dealers are selling them for upwards of 30 or 40 dollars OVER THEIR GOLD CONTENT!...... and for coins that contain around 1/5 to 1/4 ounce of gold or less. It's a simple matter of hyping up the product to stretch the profit margins to their limits. If you are paying more than 5% or so over melt, you are getting ripped off, plain and simple. There are a few types and dates that have some numismatic scarcity, but you are not likely to get those from the mass-marketing groups touting these coins. Caveat!

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rural_ghetto | 01-30-2004 04:35 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com That is all probably true, if they want to take it, they will take it. I still think they are a good deal, just like junk silver, because if you look in the right places you can get them for little to no premium. With regards to the whole confiscation thing, I have a hard time imagining that the government would have the resources to send people to every house, or even every house of suspected gold owners, to confiscate their gold.

Bobcat | 01-30-2004 07:48 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Originally Posted by rural_ghetto That is all probably true, if they want to take it, they will take it. I still think they are a good deal, just like junk silver, because if you look in the right places you can get them for little to no premium. With regards to the whole confiscation thing, I have a hard time imagining that the government would have the resources to send people to every house, or even every house of suspected gold owners, to confiscate their gold.
This is a different time and situation than existed in 1933. First off, gold was currency then and a normal thing for the majority of the population to possess. Second, your average citizen was more or less trusting of the government, that is no longer true in either case. I find that when I mention anything to most people about gold or silver they are completely clueless. I have had casual conversations with people about metals and when I have said something about gold or silver as a hedge, they usually say something like "you can't eat it" or some such nonsense. If the government tried to confiscate, they would be dealing with a very uncooperative segment of the population and would have to resort to such extreme measures to have even the slightest success, and the backlash would be more than they bargained for. I think we are fairly safe for now. I think any gold coin bought at or very close to spot is good thing, but when it comes time to sell they may be a little more difficult to sell for the top price. JMO

edjerider | 01-30-2004 09:48 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com It is interesting to hear this debate about gold confiscation. The government will try anything if it is in it's interests [or often in the interests of those who fund government elections] the only thing that ever seems to stay its hand is overwhelming public dissapproval. When they took all the gold last time, gold was commonly held as personal savings by people. These days very few [proportionally] seem to horde gold, trusting instead the banking systems. How much REAL resistance would a modern government be faced with if it decided it wanted our gold? Who me? I don't have any gold! I sold it all a while back!

silverwood | 01-30-2004 11:11 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Can anyone come up with the sections of the law discribing what really happened back in 1933. I believe it came under the emergency backing act. I don't know for sure but I don't think you were required to turn in you gold coins. What was seized were the coins and bullion in the banks. I inhereted some gold coins from my grandparents who never cashed them in. I believe that if you would have deposited gold coins in the bank after 1933 the banks were required to turn them in. Something like what happened to the $500, $1,000 etc. They were simply removed from circulation.

Bobcat | 01-30-2004 11:26 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwood Can anyone come up with the sections of the law discribing what really happened back in 1933. I believe it came under the emergency backing act. I don't know for sure but I don't think you were required to turn in you gold coins. What was seized were the coins and bullion in the banks. I inhereted some gold coins from my grandparents who never cashed them in. I believe that if you would have deposited gold coins in the bank after 1933 the banks were required to turn them in. Something like what happened to the $500, $1,000 etc. They were simply removed from circulation.
You might find what your looking here: http://users.rcn.com/mgfree/Economics/goldHistory.html

AuNuggets | 01-30-2004 11:38 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com If I remember correctly, the 1933 order did in fact require "all" gold coin to be surrendered, but there was a section that permitted each citizen to keep up to $100 in face value in gold coins. In later years, legislation made anything minted prior to 1933 "exempt", pretty much negating the entire purpose of the 1933 law. I have an old copy of the order as posted in most post offices at the time, and will post it if I can locate it.

AuNuggets | 01-30-2004 11:51 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com The text of the 1933 order: (note the items in bold) Exec. Order No.6102 (1933). By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5(b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, entitled "An Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes", in which amendatory Act Congress declared that a serious emergency exists, I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section do hereby prohibit the hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of this order: Section 1. For the purposes of this regulation, the term "hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin. gold bullion or gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation. Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May I, 1933, to a Federal reserve bank or a branch or agency therefor to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following: (a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold. (b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins. (c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements. (d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and bullion imported for reexport or held pending action on applications for export licenses. Section 3. Until otherwise ordered any person becoming the owner of any gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates after April 28, 1933, shall, within three days after receipt thereof, deliver the same in the manner prescribed in Section 2; unless such gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates are held for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (b) or (c) of Section 2; or unless such gold coin or gold bullion is held for purposes specified in paragraph (d) of Section 2 and the person holding it is, with respect to such gold coin or bullion, a licensee or applicant for license pending action thereon. Section 4. Upon receipt of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates delivered to it in accordance with Sections 2 or 3, the Federal reserve bank or member bank will pay therefor an equivalent amount of any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the United States. Section 5. Member banks shall deliver all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates owned or received by them (other than as exempted under the provisions of Section 2) to the Federal reserve banks of their respective districts and receive credit or payment therefor. Section 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, out of the sum made available to the President by Section 501 of the Act of March 9,1933, will in all proper cases pay the reasonable costs of transportation of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates delivered to a member bank or Federal reserve bank in accordance with Sections 2, 3, or 5 hereof, including the cost of insurance, protection, and such other incidental costs as may be necessary, upon production of satisfactory evidence of such costs. Voucher forms for this purpose may be procured from Federal reserve banks. Section 7. In cases where the delivery of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates by the owners thereof within the time set forth above will involve extraordinary hardship or difficulty, the Secretary of the Treasury may, in his discretion, extend the time within which such delivery must be made. Applications for such extensions must be made in writing under oath, addressed to the Secretary of the Treasury and filed with a Federal reserve bank. Each application must state the date to which the extension is desired, the amount and location of the gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates in respect of which such application is made and the facts showing extension to be necessary to avoid extraordinary hardship or difficulty. Section 8. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and empowered to issue such further regulations as he may deem necessary to carry out the purposes of this order and to issue licenses thereunder, through such officers or agencies as he may designate, including licenses permitting the Federal reserve banks and member banks of the Federal Reserve System, in return for an equivalent amount of other coin, currency or credit, to deliver, earmark or hold in trust gold coin and bullion to or for persons showing the need for the same for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (c) and (d) of Section 2 of these regulations. Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or of these regulations or of any rule, regulation or license issued thereunder may be fined not more than $10,000, or, if a natural person, may be imprisoned for not more than ten years, or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both. ------------------------------ Note that anyone turning in gold at the time could have requested silver coin in exchange, and kept up to $100 in gold coin under the terms of the order. Contrary to popular belief, this was never an actual "confiscation" order, and there are no records of anyone ever being fined or going to jail for not turning in their gold coins, gold bullion, or gold certificates.

silverwood | 01-30-2004 11:58 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat You might find what your looking here: http://users.rcn.com/mgfree/Economics/goldHistory.html
Thanks for the link. Another tidbit I remember is that if you look at the current availability of US $20 the 1930 1931 1932 are extremely scarce and they never released the 1933s. Switzerland had large quantities of earlier date $20s that's why they are plentyful.

silverwood | 01-31-2004 12:15 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Quote:
Originally Posted by AuNuggets The text of the 1933 order: (note the items in bold) Exec. Order No.6102 (1933). By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5(b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, entitled "An Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes", in which amendatory Act Congress declared that a serious emergency exists, I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section do hereby prohibit the hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of this order: Section 1. For the purposes of this regulation, the term "hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin. gold bullion or gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation. Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May I, 1933, to a Federal reserve bank or a branch or agency therefor to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following: (a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold. (b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having a recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins. (c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements. (d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and bullion imported for reexport or held pending action on applications for export licenses. Section 3. Until otherwise ordered any person becoming the owner of any gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates after April 28, 1933, shall, within three days after receipt thereof, deliver the same in the manner prescribed in Section 2; unless such gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates are held for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (b) or (c) of Section 2; or unless such gold coin or gold bullion is held for purposes specified in paragraph (d) of Section 2 and the person holding it is, with respect to such gold coin or bullion, a licensee or applicant for license pending action thereon. Section 4. Upon receipt of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates delivered to it in accordance with Sections 2 or 3, the Federal reserve bank or member bank will pay therefor an equivalent amount of any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the United States. Section 5. Member banks shall deliver all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates owned or received by them (other than as exempted under the provisions of Section 2) to the Federal reserve banks of their respective districts and receive credit or payment therefor. Section 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, out of the sum made available to the President by Section 501 of the Act of March 9,1933, will in all proper cases pay the reasonable costs of transportation of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates delivered to a member bank or Federal reserve bank in accordance with Sections 2, 3, or 5 hereof, including the cost of insurance, protection, and such other incidental costs as may be necessary, upon production of satisfactory evidence of such costs. Voucher forms for this purpose may be procured from Federal reserve banks. Section 7. In cases where the delivery of gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates by the owners thereof within the time set forth above will involve extraordinary hardship or difficulty, the Secretary of the Treasury may, in his discretion, extend the time within which such delivery must be made. Applications for such extensions must be made in writing under oath, addressed to the Secretary of the Treasury and filed with a Federal reserve bank. Each application must state the date to which the extension is desired, the amount and location of the gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates in respect of which such application is made and the facts showing extension to be necessary to avoid extraordinary hardship or difficulty. Section 8. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and empowered to issue such further regulations as he may deem necessary to carry out the purposes of this order and to issue licenses thereunder, through such officers or agencies as he may designate, including licenses permitting the Federal reserve banks and member banks of the Federal Reserve System, in return for an equivalent amount of other coin, currency or credit, to deliver, earmark or hold in trust gold coin and bullion to or for persons showing the need for the same for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (c) and (d) of Section 2 of these regulations. Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or of these regulations or of any rule, regulation or license issued thereunder may be fined not more than $10,000, or, if a natural person, may be imprisoned for not more than ten years, or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both. ------------------------------ Note that anyone turning in gold at the time could have requested silver coin in exchange, and kept up to $100 in gold coin under the terms of the order. Contrary to popular belief, this was never an actual "confiscation" order, and there are no records of anyone ever being fined or going to jail for not turning in their gold coins, gold bullion, or gold certificates.
Good show old man! The problem I have with all this was gold was revalued from $20.67 to $35.00 That what I call a hugh purchasing power loss. Silver fell to $0.25 an ounce. And the voting public reelected this guy to four terms? I'm not terribly computer savvy how do you print just this page?

AuNuggets | 01-31-2004 12:44 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com One of the reasons that so many of the U.S. $10 and $20 gold coins ended up in the European countries was that many "big money" concerns got wind of the recall well in advance of the recall action, and alot of gold coin was simply withdrawn from U.S. banks and whisked across the Atlantic for safekeeping. Between that and the regular exchange of gold coin for dollars in foreign exchange, it all probably compounded the problem of "gold coin hoarding" far beyond what it was before the recall threat, making it more imperative for the government to "think" they needed to stop the flow and hoarding. What the government basicly did is what they most always do...... create a problem so they can "fix" it. Printing a single section off the forum is easiest by just cutting and pasting into a word program, and then printing from there. Not sure if there is any other way to print just one post directly off the page.

edjerider | 01-31-2004 08:34 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com I read that all those Swiss coins, and coins held in other off-shore banks were mostly deposited "just " before the 1933 law was passed. It is said that all the elite class in America were forwarned of the law coming into being and had time to get their bullion on steamers etc. for the european safe havens. It stands to reason, laws like that have to be discussed for a few weeks before they get the stamp of approval, and lets face it, a lot of the wealthy are in government, (with friends and family, etc, etc getting the tip off to.) The penalties for gold hording, as I recall, were a maximum $10 000 fine, six months in the boob. What would the penalties be today [with inflation?]

silverwood | 01-31-2004 11:54 PM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com all my life I have been in love. I have been in love with gold. I love its colour, its brilliance, its divine heaviness . . . .I have worked all my life for gold . . . .I ask you . . . . is there any other substance on earth that so rewards its owner?"1

AuNuggets | 02-01-2004 12:53 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com 1 Attachment(s) Some things in life are just too hard to resist......... :tongue:

Scorpio | 02-01-2004 08:32 AM
Re: Confiscation BS from Broke.com Now that is a well done picture............ The problem is, once you hold gold and silver in your hand, of whatever your particular fancy, it has the power to hook you......... Incredible, even the sheeple understand when you pull one out of your pocket. S

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