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livtocruz | 08-27-2009 01:49 PM
1858.5 year old coin 1 Attachment(s) I just got it today. It's an AD 150-51 Roman Antoninus Pius (138-162) Denarius, Roman coin. It is really cool to hold something, although through an ANACS slab that is over 1858 years old, Although I am primarily a PM buyer I still have a few coins with history and enjoy them. i,e, Sovereigns, Pesos, etc.. Although I can't get a good pic of this coin I borrowed the one from where I bought it. My thanks to History Student for His/Her input.

TheMadHatter | 08-27-2009 01:57 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin That's pretty sweet. Do you mind letting us know how much it cost?

Professur | 08-27-2009 02:00 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Quote:
1858.5 near proof year old coin
Fixed it for ya. Beauty coin.

livtocruz | 08-27-2009 02:27 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin 2 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadHatter (Post 1889499) That's pretty sweet. Do you mind letting us know how much it cost?
He wanted $190 but, dropped the price to $170. Sweet, rough measurements are 16 mm x 1.5 mm. Weight in the slab is 34.4 grams, I'm guessing that the weight of the coin is about the same as a 90% dime. Alright, I took a couple of pics.

jedemdasseine | 08-27-2009 02:51 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Nice score. I especially love Roman coins. Ancients are works of art. And still affordable.

Jack London | 08-27-2009 03:02 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Love it! I have 3 denari 1 Trajan 1 Vespasian 1 Athena (issued during the reign of Gaius Julius Caesar) None of them are near the mint state of the OP's, but it is swell holding a coin as old as these are. The lesson for us, is that bad money drives good money out of circulation. That is why these are still around.

HistoryStudent | 08-27-2009 03:19 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin good hit. I'm trying to get a few ancient coins too. Recently grabbed a Venice 1365 ducat MS 62 gold for few bucks. to go with a 1343 ducat venice gold AU58; But the killer is a Roman Solidus 441 A.D. MS62 gold that was made to pay off ATTILA the HUN. :36_3_12::36_3_12::36_3_12: Funny thing is that in 441 the folks living in the hills ran into the marshes and founded VENICE which lasted until 1797 and Napolean showed up - 1356 years! PS I grabbed a Zecc gold venice 1797 MS 62 also - last one made from old venice. :23_1_22::111:

Kregener | 08-27-2009 03:31 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin It is 'worth' exactly its weight in PM.

livtocruz | 08-27-2009 04:25 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Yo Kregener, I have read your posts since I joined and have felt that they have given me some enlightenment but, feel that you are biased to only PM's. That is all and fine but, I think that you need to ease up on the Numismatics on this site. Yes, my 1858 year old coin may only contain about 2.5 grams of silver ( $.50) spot. But, it contains more history in its infinitesimal little 2.5 grams than most people have any knowledge about. So, think about it, while you have a definite knowledge about what is going on around you, I request that you give the coin collectors on this site the benefit of the doubt. After all, remember this........ "Wherever you go, there you are".

Tallships | 08-27-2009 05:21 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin I got something similar at a flea market for 17 dollars. Yours is much nicer.

tanner12oz | 08-27-2009 06:41 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Quote:
Originally Posted by livtocruz (Post 1889725) Yo Kregener, I have read your posts since I joined and have felt that they have given me some enlightenment but, feel that you are biased to only PM's. That is all and fine but, I think that you need to ease up on the Numismatics on this site. Yes, my 1858 year old coin may only contain about 2.5 grams of silver ( $.50) spot. But, it contains more history in its infinitesimal little 2.5 grams than most people have any knowledge about. So, think about it, while you have a definite knowledge about what is going on around you, I request that you give the coin collectors on this site the benefit of the doubt. After all, remember this........ "Wherever you go, there you are".
we are all here for different reasons....the main thing to remember is we are all here...thats puts us ahead of the game

Jefferson | 08-27-2009 07:46 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Quote:
Originally Posted by livtocruz (Post 1889486) I just got it today. It's an AD 150-51 Roman Antoninus Pius (138-162) Denarius, Roman coin. It is really cool to hold something, although through an ANACS slab that is over 1858 years old, Although I am primarily a PM buyer I still have a few coins with history and enjoy them. i,e, Sovereigns, Pesos, etc.. Although I can't get a good pic of this coin I borrowed the one from where I bought it. My thanks to History Student for His/Her input.
That is one of the most beautiful coins I have ever seen in my entire life and in near perfect condition. I will offer you $180 even though it is only worth 50 cents in silver acording to Kregener. Silver $14.28, your coin Priceless.

Ag_man | 08-27-2009 07:49 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Very nice Denarius, lv! Didn't know ancients were graded. Are those "chop marks" on the rim? Ancients are the only branch of numismatics that I find interesting these days. I got my first ancient yesterday, a silver Crusader States coin, 1297-1301. Although I am doing some reading about Romans, I don't really know much about Medievals, but it is the part of history that I find most interesting.

goldminer | 08-27-2009 09:29 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin "...I got something similar at a flea market for 17 dollars." Good point here... be VERY careful purchasing ancients. There are scads of counterfiets out there. I was told a number of years ago that if ever a person needed to purchase from a knowledgable and reliable dealer - ancients are it.

Tallships | 08-27-2009 09:37 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin http://www.ancientimports.com/images/coins/21218.jpg This is what mine looks like.

Tallships | 08-27-2009 09:45 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin The guy may have been yanking my cord, but he said he had owned this coin for 25 years before I bought it. It had a history with it typed a really long time ago. I believed him and will until proven otherwise. I got it because I wanted something with history. Previous to that-- the oldest silver I had was a Spanish mill dollar.

horseshoe3 | 08-28-2009 09:39 AM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Quote:
Are those "chop marks" on the rim?
I think it is cracking out from primitive stamping methods. As the blank is pressed, the outer circumference grows at such a rate that it can't hold together and it cracks out. You can run a similar experiment by smashing a ball of dry playdough.

horseshoe3 | 08-28-2009 09:42 AM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Quote:
Originally Posted by tanner12oz (Post 1889936) we are all here for different reasons....the main thing to remember is we are all here...thats puts us ahead of the game
QFT. I am mostly interested in bullion because it is the cheapest and most efficient way to own PMs. However, I do have a minor interest in numismatics just for something a little more interesting. You know, water is the most economical way to stay hydrated. But if that was all you drank, life would be really dull. Sometimes you just have to splurge and spend a little money to buy a coke.

livtocruz | 08-28-2009 11:55 AM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 1890055) Very nice Denarius, lv! Didn't know ancients were graded. Are those "chop marks" on the rim? Ancients are the only branch of numismatics that I find interesting these days. I got my first ancient yesterday, a silver Crusader States coin, 1297-1301. Although I am doing some reading about Romans, I don't really know much about Medievals, but it is the part of history that I find most interesting.
Yes they are. Using a 10x loupe for closer examination reveals that the blank had split when pressed between the dies. There are four areas on the upper half where this occurs. One more spot in the lower right hand edge shows a start of a crack but it does not go through the coin as in the other four.

Argentum 47 | 08-28-2009 12:53 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Really nice coin. would be tempted to pull trigger on similar myself.

Kregener | 08-28-2009 12:59 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Quote:
Originally Posted by livtocruz (Post 1889725) Yo Kregener, I have read your posts since I joined and have felt that they have given me some enlightenment but, feel that you are biased to only PM's. That is all and fine but, I think that you need to ease up on the Numismatics on this site. Yes, my 1858 year old coin may only contain about 2.5 grams of silver ( $.50) spot. But, it contains more history in its infinitesimal little 2.5 grams than most people have any knowledge about. So, think about it, while you have a definite knowledge about what is going on around you, I request that you give the coin collectors on this site the benefit of the doubt. After all, remember this........ "Wherever you go, there you are".
What I am saying, is that RIGHT NOW, it may very well have...'collector value'...but in the end, it will only be as valuable as its PM content. Being a history lover myself, I find such an old coin from an ancient empire to be really cool. Sorry for any confusion.

livtocruz | 08-28-2009 02:11 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin My apologies, no ill will felt. I understand what your saying. But, if you read a bit further up, I've already been offered more than what I paid. Wonder how it would do in an auction.

Tallships | 08-28-2009 05:03 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin The cracks are usually from the alloy breaking down over the centuries. Imagine what our present day clad coins will look like when they are 2000 years old.

digger2 | 08-31-2009 07:30 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin For all of you interested in ancient coins, here are some resources I have found to be extremely helpful: FORVM (very knowledgeable members, great member's gallery, but you have to sign up to see the pics. I like to go there and research a little before I buy anything) http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php Wildwinds (great for identification if you know at least the name of the ruler, province, region or period. In most cases it gets you to RIC / Sear numbers and it also has prices from recent auctions. A little difficult to navigate though) http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/index.html Forgery Network (hundreds of submitted fake reports) http://www.forgerynetwork.com/ With all the history behind them, all the different variations these coins come in, and the many old and modern fakes and forgeries that are circulating today the "ancients" play in a different league, but they are yery rewarding to the interested student. Happy coin hunting everyone!

digger2 | 08-31-2009 08:17 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin To put this into practice, livtocruz, I just looked up your Antonius Pius in Wildwinds as an example. Looking for the ruler I went straight to the Antonius Pius site http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/a...us_pius/i.html ...clicked for page with thumbnails http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/a...us_pius/t.html and browsed through the coins until I found a reverse that is similar to yours. (The coin looks similar but is not identical, so it's probably a different one. I'm sure you will find your exact coin with a little more effort than I put in :-) And once you are sure you should save this information which looks something like this: Antoninus Pius Denarius. ANTONINVS AVG PIVS P P TR P XIIII, laureate bearded head right / COS IIII, Bonus Eventus standing left holding ears of grain & patera. RIC 196 / sear5 #4069 ...as it exactly describes the coin and gives you a RIC number (the catalogue of R oman I mperial C oins) which helps in case you ever want to sell the coin. If you are not sure you can always post your images in one of these forums and ask for id help. Their sample pic (still not exactly the same): http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...1&d=1251763495 :applause_

esoteric | 08-31-2009 08:35 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Quote:
Originally Posted by Kregener (Post 1891249) What I am saying, is that RIGHT NOW, it may very well have...'collector value'...but in the end, it will only be as valuable as its PM content. Being a history lover myself, I find such an old coin from an ancient empire to be really cool. Sorry for any confusion.
please define the "end"?

HistoryStudent | 08-31-2009 09:38 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin Antoninus Pius From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Antoninus Pius Emperor of the Roman Empire Bust of Antoninus Pius, at Glyptothek, Munich Reign 11 July 138 � 7 March 161 Full name Titus Aurelius Fulvus Boionius Arrius Antoninus (from birth to adoption by Hadrian); Titus Aelius Caesar Antoninus (from adoption to accession); Caesar Titus Aelius Hadrianus Antoninus Augustus Pius (as emperor) Born 19 September 86(86-09-19) Birthplace near Lanuvium Died 7 March 161 (aged 74) Place of death Lorium Buried Hadrian's Mausoleum Predecessor Hadrian Successor Marcus Aurelius & Lucius Verus Consort to Faustina Offspring Faustina the Younger, one other daughter and two sons, all died before 138 (natural); Marcus Aurelius and Lucius Verus (adoptive) Royal House Antonine Father Titus Aurelius Fulvus (natural); Hadrian (adoptive, from 25 Feb. 138) Mother Arria Fadilla Roman imperial dynasties Antonine Dynasty Antoninus Pius Children Natural - Faustina the Younger, also one other daughter and two sons, all died before 138 Adoptive - Marcus Aurelius and Lucius Verus Marcus Aurelius with Lucius Verus Marcus Aurelius alone Children Natural - 13, including Commodus and Lucilla Commodus Titus Aurelius Fulvus Boionius Arrius Antoninus (19 September 86 � 7 March 161), generally known in English as Antoninus Pius was Roman emperor from 138 to 161. He was the fourth of the Five Good Emperors and a member of the Aurelii. He did not possess the sobriquet "Pius" until after his accession to the throne. Almost certainly, he earned the name "Pius" because he compelled the Senate to deify his adoptive father Hadrian; the Historia Augusta, however, suggests that he may have earned the name by saving senators sentenced to death by Hadrian in his later years.[1] Contents [hide] 1 Early life 1.1 Childhood and family 1.2 Marriage and children 1.3 Favour with Hadrian 2 Emperor 3 Historiography 3.1 In later scholarship 4 References 5 Notes 6 External links [edit] Early life [edit] Childhood and family He was the son and only child of Titus Aurelius Fulvus, consul in 89 whose family came from Nemausus (modern N�mes) and was born near Lanuvium and his mother was Arria Fadilla. Antoninus� father and paternal grandfather died when he was young and he was raised by Gnaeus Arrius Antoninus, his maternal grandfather, a man of integrity and culture and a friend of Pliny the Younger. His mother married to Publius Julius Lupus (a man of consular rank), Suffect Consul in 98, and bore him a daughter called Julia Fadilla. [edit] Marriage and children As a private citizen between 110 and 115, he married Annia Galeria Faustina the Elder. They had a very happy marriage. She was the daughter of consul Marcus Annius Verus and Rupilia Faustina (a half-sister to Roman Empress Vibia Sabina). Faustina was a beautiful woman, renowned for her wisdom. She spent her whole life caring for the poor and assisting the most disadvantaged Romans. Faustina bore Antoninus four children, two sons and two daughters. They were: Marcus Aurelius Fulvus Antoninus (died before 138); his sepulchral inscription has been found at the Mausoleum of Hadrian in Rome. Marcus Galerius Aurelius Antoninus (died before 138); his sepulchral inscription has been found at the Mausoleum of Hadrian in Rome. His name appears on a Greek Imperial coin. Aurelia Fadilla (died in 135); she married Lucius Lamia Silvanus, consul 145. She appeared to have no children with her husband and her sepulchral inscription has been found in Italy. Annia Galeria Faustina Minor or Faustina the Younger (between 125-130-175), a future Roman Empress, married her maternal cousin, future Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius. When Faustina died in 141, he was in complete mourning and did the following in memory of his wife: Deified her as a goddess. Had a temple built in the Roman Forum in her name, with priestesses in the temple. Had various coins with her portrait struck in her honor. These coins were scripted �DIVAE FAUSTINA� and were elaborately decorated. He created a charity which he founded and called it Puellae Faustinianae or Girls of Faustina, which assisted orphaned girls. Created a new alimenta (see Grain supply to the city of Rome). [edit] Favour with Hadrian Having filled with more than usual success the offices of quaestor and praetor, he obtained the consulship in 120; he was next appointed by the Emperor Hadrian as one of the four proconsuls to administer Italia, then greatly increased his reputation by his conduct as proconsul of Asia. He acquired much favor with the Emperor Hadrian, who adopted him as his son and successor on 25 February, 138, after the death of his first adopted son Lucius Aelius, on the condition that Antoninus would in turn adopt Marcus Annius Verus, the son of his wife's brother, and Lucius, son of Aelius Verus, who afterwards became the emperors Marcus Aurelius and Lucius Verus (colleague of Marcus Aurelius). [edit] Emperor Sestertius of Antoninus Pius, with the personification of Italia on reverse. Antoninus had been entrusted with the government of this province as proconsul.On his accession, Antoninus' name became "Imperator Caesar Titus Aelius Hadrianus Antoninus Augustus Pontifex Maximus". One of his first acts as Emperor was to persuade the Senate to grant divine honours to Hadrian, which they had at first refused; his efforts to persuade the Senate to grant these honours is the most likely reason given for his title of Pius (dutiful in affection; compare pietas). Two other reasons for this title are that he would support his aged father-in-law with his hand at Senate meetings, and that he had saved those men that Hadrian, during his period of ill-health, had condemned to death. He built temples, theaters, and mausoleums, promoted the arts and sciences, and bestowed honours and financial rewards upon the teachers of rhetoric and philosophy. In marked contrast to his predecessors Trajan and Hadrian, Antoninus was not a military man. One modern scholar has written "It is almost certain not only that at no time in his life did he ever see, let alone command, a Roman army, but that, throughout the twenty-three years of his reign, he never went within five hundred miles of a legion".[2] His reign was the most peaceful in the entire history of the Principate; while there were several military disturbances throughout the Empire in his time, in Mauretania, Iudaea, and amongst the Brigantes in Britannia, none of them are considered serious. The unrest in Britannia is believed to have led to the construction of the Antonine Wall from the Firth of Forth to the Firth of Clyde, although it was soon abandoned. He was virtually unique among emperors in that he dealt with these crises without leaving Italy once during his reign, but instead dealt with provincial matters of war and peace through their governors or through imperial letters to the cities such as Ephesus (of which some were publicly displayed). This style of government was highly praised by his contemporaries and by later generations. Another version of the standardised imperial portrait; from the house of Jason Magnus at Cyrene, North Africa (British Museum)Of the public transactions of this period we have scant information, but, to judge by what we possess, those twenty-two years were not remarkably eventful in comparison to those before and after his; the surviving evidence is not complete enough to determine whether we should interpret, with older scholars, that he wisely curtailed the activities of the Roman Empire to a careful minimum, or perhaps that he was uninterested in events away from Rome and Italy and his inaction contributed to the pressing troubles that faced not only Marcus Aurelius but also the emperors of the third century. German historian Ernst Kornemann has had it in his R�mische Geschichte [2 vols., ed. by H. Bengtson, Stuttgart 1954] that the reign of Antoninus comprised "a succession of grossly wasted opportunities," given the upheavals that were to come. There is more to this argument, given that the Parthians in the East were themselves soon to make no small amount of mischief after Antoninus' passing. Kornemann's brief is that Antoninus might have waged preventive wars to head off these outsiders. Scholars place Antoninus Pius as the leading candidate for fulfilling the role as a friend of Rabbi Judah the Prince. According to the Talmud (Avodah Zarah 10a-b), Rabbi Judah was very wealthy and greatly revered in Rome. He had a close friendship with "Antoninus", possibly Antoninus Pius,[3] who would consult Rabbi Judah on various worldly and spiritual matters. Temple of Antoninus and Faustina in the Roman forum (now the church of San Lorenzo in Miranda). The emperor and his Augusta were deified after their death by Marcus Aurelius.After the longest reign since Augustus (surpassing Tiberius by a couple of months), Antoninus died of fever at Lorium in Etruria, about twelve miles (19 km) from Rome, on 7 March 161, giving the keynote to his life in the last word that he uttered when the tribune of the night-watch came to ask the password�"aequanimitas" (equanimity). His body was placed in Hadrian's mausoleum, a column was dedicated to him on the Campus Martius, and the temple he had built in the Forum in 141 to his deified wife Faustina was rededicated to the deified Faustina and the deified Antoninus. [edit] Historiography The only account of his life handed down to us is that of the Augustan History, an unreliable and mostly fabricated work. Antoninus is unique among Roman emperors in that he has no other biographies. Historians have therefore turned to public records for what details we know. [edit] In later scholarship Antoninus in many ways was the ideal of the landed gentleman praised not only by ancient Romans, but also by later scholars of classical history, such as Edward Gibbon or the author of the article on Antoninus Pius in the ninth edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica: A few months afterwards, on Hadrian's death, he was enthusiastically welcomed to the throne by the Roman people, who, for once, were not disappointed in their anticipation of a happy reign. For Antoninus came to his new office with simple tastes, kindly disposition, extensive experience, a well-trained intelligence and the sincerest desire for the welfare of his subjects. Instead of plundering to support his prodigality, he emptied his private treasury to assist distressed provinces and cities, and everywhere exercised rigid economy (hence the nickname κυμινοπριστης "cummin-splitter"). Instead of exaggerating into treason whatever was susceptible of unfavorable interpretation, he spurned the very conspiracies that were formed against him into opportunities for demonstrating his clemency. Instead of stirring up persecution against the Christians, he extended to them the strong hand of his protection throughout the empire. Rather than give occasion to that oppression which he regarded as inseparable from an emperor's progress through his dominions, he was content to spend all the years of his reign in Rome, or its neighbourhood. [edit] References Bossart-Mueller, Zur Geschichte des Kaisers A. (1868) Lacour-Gayet, A. le Pieux et son Temps (1888) Bryant, The Reign of Antonine (Cambridge Historical Essays, 1895) P. B. Watson, Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (London, 1884), chap. ii. W. H�ttl, Antoninus Pius vol. I & II, Prag 1933 & 1936. This article incorporates text from the Encyclop�dia Britannica, Eleventh Edition, a publication now in the public domain. [edit] Notes

twenty4karat | 08-31-2009 09:45 PM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin This has made my Mother in-law get all nostalgic. (Talk about Back in the Day!). :smile:

Jekyll7 | 09-01-2009 01:18 AM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin That is very nice, LTC. I'd love to have some ancients like yours but I need to do a lot of reading on them before I'd trust myself to buy anything. As far as the bullion/numi debate, I'll put it this way: I own PM's because of my head, but I own numi coins because of my heart. There is something fascinating about an old coin that someone managed to tuck away despite the overwhelming odds that most people would need every cent at their disposal during certain times in history (depression era, for example). For me, it's the history - where the coin has been, who might have held it, the times in history it's been through. Some people are interested by that, and some aren't. I don't expect all of us to agree all the time.

jedemdasseine | 09-01-2009 05:04 AM
Re: 1858.5 year old coin A nice type set would be coins of the 12 Caesars. Imagine a ruler nowadays having coins proclaiming himself "Dictator For Life" like Julius Caesar did. lol. Caesar Augustus coins aren't too difficult (mainly because he reigned for so long). Some ancient accounts mention that even when he was young Octavian, the future Caesar Augustus collected rare and old coins. As emperor, he'd show them off at parties.

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