Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)
- Gold - Silver - Coins - Numismatics (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
- - book: Double Eagle by Frankel (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=87175)

Anty Ep | 11-29-2006 09:43 AM
book: Double Eagle by Frankel I am reading this book about the 33 St Gaudens $20 gold coin. None circulated, only around 10 smuggled out of the Mint, only one or perhaps two still in private hands. Million dollar coin, plus. http://www.amazon.com/Double-Eagle-S...e=UTF8&s=books Anybody read or reading this book? Quote:
From Publishers Weekly Starred Review. Frankel, senior writer at the American Lawyer, has produced a thrilling page-turner about the most common of objects�a coin. Granted, the coin in question is no ordinary piece of change. Produced at the Philadelphia Mint in 1933, the $20 Double Eagle was the last gold coin made in the United States and never officially placed in circulation. Still, in the sometimes shadowy world of numismatics, one of the coins surfaced and was chased around the globe for nearly 70 years. In hard-driving prose, Frankel chronicles the events and characters that orbit this small piece of precious metal. Acquired by shady gold dealer Israel Switt, "a squat, balding redhead who wore thick-rimmed glasses, cheap suits, and a perpetual sneer," the coin found its way into the collection of King Farouk of Egypt, a ruler described by Frankel as having an appetite for collecting "so unquenchable and undiscriminating that he seemed almost cartoonish." Frankel demonstrates her journalistic skill with sparkling accounts of deals, investigations and the arcane rituals of the coin world. This is a great read for the obsessed collector and general public alike. 8 pages of b&w photos. (May) Copyright � Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved. Book Description Few objects in history tell a tale that can match this one coin's for drama and sheer improbability. Stolen from the U.S. Mint in the depths of the Great Depression, shipped via diplomatic pouch to Egypt, hidden for forty years, seized in a 1996 government sting at the Waldorf-Astoria, and finally sold in a record-setting auction�. One coin, for years the only known 1933 twenty-dollar Double Eagle in the world, has inspired the passions of thieves and collectors, lawyers and charlatans. Its extraordinary story winds across seventy years and three continents, linking an almost unbelievable cast of characters: Theodore Roosevelt and a Philadelphia gold dealer with underworld connections; Egypt's King Farouk and an apple-cheeked Secret Service agent; London's most successful coin dealer and a retired trucker from Amarillo. Alison Frankel's stylish narrative hums at the pace of a thriller. Her meticulously researched descriptions and vivid character studies bring the coin's history to life and illuminate the world of coin collecting, where the desire to possess often borders on madness. 8 pages of illustrations.

Anty Ep | 12-05-2006 04:07 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel this is a fantastic book about the coin trade, you guys might really like it... I cant believe nobody's reading this?? just go to border's and check it out, black cover, with a pic of the 33 $20 st gaudens. really a great book.

Master_Ho | 12-05-2006 05:05 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 435692) this is a fantastic book about the coin trade, you guys might really like it... I cant believe nobody's reading this?? just go to border's and check it out, black cover, with a pic of the 33 $20 st gaudens. really a great book.
I am only not reading it cause I am up to my eyebrows in 2-3 other coin collectiong books, hours of financial reading here and on other financial sites - and further up beyond my eyebrows in holiday related nonsense.......all eating up my time........ But didn't want you to think no one was paying attention....... And I have heard about that coin in the other books - its a great story and hope - in a few months - to read all the rest of the details! Cheers!

Andy9999 | 12-05-2006 06:07 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel There was an interview with I think author of this book on Puplava website about 1-1,5 year ago <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> Will post link when locate <o:p></o:p>

Andy9999 | 12-05-2006 06:14 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel There you go http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2005/Tripp.html :coolbeer:

Master_Ho | 12-05-2006 06:33 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy9999 (Post 435782) There was an interview with I think author of this book on Puplava website about 1-1,5 year ago <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> Will post link when locate <o:p></o:p>
Thanks Andy! I'll listen to it tonight when I get home from teaching class!! Cheers!

The Great Ag | 12-06-2006 10:02 AM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 435692) this is a fantastic book about the coin trade, you guys might really like it... I cant believe nobody's reading this?? just go to border's and check it out, black cover, with a pic of the 33 $20 st gaudens. really a great book.
Hey, Anty Ep: Thanks for the title. I will get this for Christmas. I have many books on coins, as it relates to grading, counterfeit detecting, and errors, but do not have any relating to stories around coins. This is good, Thanks Anty Ep The GreatAg

Anty Ep | 12-06-2006 11:43 AM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Well you are really going to like this story. This woman is a lawyer so her style is straightforward and factual. But she reveals interesting parts of the story at interesting times. I'm nearly finished. Another interesting side note I've learned from this book, is how the top coin dealers in the 30s and 40s were apparently all or nearly all Jewish. Lots of stuff about that in the book. It probably helps that the author is most likely Jewish too, probably helped her get parts of the story when a goy investigator would have gotten the cold gefilte-fish shoulder so to speak.

The Great Ag | 12-06-2006 06:15 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 436609) Well you are really going to like this story. This woman is a lawyer so her style is straightforward and factual. But she reveals interesting parts of the story at interesting times. I'm nearly finished. Another interesting side note I've learned from this book, is how the top coin dealers in the 30s and 40s were apparently all or nearly all Jewish. Lots of stuff about that in the book. It probably helps that the author is most likely Jewish too, probably helped her get parts of the story when a goy investigator would have gotten the cold gefilte-fish shoulder so to speak.
My wife added the book to my Christmas wish list. She is excited only because the only other thing I asked for was silver! :D I'm such a silver bull. We have a nice home, adorable little girl, and a good job. I don't need anything, but she wants to get me something anyway. The Great Ag

Anty Ep | 12-07-2006 09:44 AM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 437046) My wife added the book to my Christmas wish list. She is excited only because the only other thing I asked for was silver! :D I'm such a silver bull. We have a nice home, adorable little girl, and a good job. I don't need anything, but she wants to get me something anyway. The Great Ag
She wants to get you a boy to keep his sister company. Get busy!

metri8 | 12-07-2006 04:58 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel I read it a few months ago, it was a really enjoyable read and I really like her style. One Note, make sure if anybody is buying it for you they don't confuse it with "The Double Eagle" by James Twining (A spy type thriller).

The Great Ag | 12-08-2006 06:32 AM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 437658) She wants to get you a boy to keep his sister company. Get busy!
She's been threatening that. :haha: Actually she wants another girl. So do I. The Great Ag

The Great Ag | 12-25-2006 01:50 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Hey, Anty Ep: Thanks for the book recommendation! :congrats: I got it for Christmas from my wife. I have read the prologue, and I'm hooked. :party30: Also received a 1881 S Morgan silver dollar probably MS62 or 63 that is almost proof like! Hope you and your family had a great Christmas. The Great Ag

The Great Ag | 12-27-2006 10:11 AM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Hey, Anty Ep: Very good book so far. I'm at the point wherre the Secret Service has just questions Switt regarding his connections to the cashier at the Philly mint. So far I have a question, and I wonder if anyone can answer it? Do not coins belong to the public? I understand the gov't is charged with maintaining accurate weights and measures with minting coins and printing FRNs, but doesn't the money belong to the people, and not the gov't? The Great Ag

Master_Ho | 12-27-2006 03:38 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel If the money belonged to the people - couldn't we smelt it if we wanted? I think its one of those Tao things - it belongs to the people in theory but, in actual reality, it belongs to the government who represent the people. Maybe thats why it has their name and not our names on it. Its like our Vons supermarket out here - their slogan, till I made them change it (don't laugh, you'll see how I did it) was "Its your store!" Being a bit of a gameplayer - one day I filled a cart and started to walk out with it.........naturally I was stopped by a manager who asked me what I was doing. "I am taking this cart of food out to my car." "But you haven't paid for it yet." "Of COURSE not!" "Of course not?" "Well, of COURSE not.........if its MY store, I should just be able to walk in, take what I need! Hey, you guys are the idiots who advertize its MY store - so if its MY store I should be able to come in and take what I want! ever hear in truth in advertizing?" So - its YOUR money like its MY store........ Just like every store and politician is doing whatever JUST FOR ME!!!!!! :puke: OH - and in the case with that coin, it was struck but never officially released, so it was never even in theroy made "your coin"!

The Great Ag | 12-27-2006 04:47 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 456179) "Well, of COURSE not.........if its MY store, I should just be able to walk in, take what I need! Hey, you guys are the idiots who advertize its MY store - so if its MY store I should be able to come in and take what I want! ever hear in truth in advertizing?" So - its YOUR money like its MY store........ Just like every store and politician is doing whatever JUST FOR ME!!!!!! :puke: OH - and in the case with that coin, it was struck but never officially released, so it was never even in theroy made "your coin"!
Funny story, Master Ho! Did they make you pay? It was your store, afterall! I suspect your food was not free. :bawling: Even if the mint did not "release" the coins, they are still property of the people. My reasoning is this, at that time, a private citizen could bring gold and silver bullion (in all forms) and have it minted into coinage. The gov't just insures the quality. Does that make sense? The Great Ag

Master_Ho | 12-27-2006 05:09 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 456257) Funny story, Master Ho! Did they make you pay? It was your store, afterall! I suspect your food was not free. :bawling:
Oh, I had no illusions about paying, it was merely my way of telling them (in a way that caused a huge store commotion - I do come from an acting background!) that their advertizing - which they paid a fortune for some moron to think that line up - was crap and, worse, could cause them lots of trouble.......thats why they changed it! They now say "Its OUR store but you can still buy or products IF you pay for them!" (OK, not really but thats what I suggested they change it to.......See - now, if they had hired ME to do their advertizing - they'd have never used that stupid line! Now its something dumb, so dumb I can not remember what........probably - "We're the only decent market in miles so don't f*ck with us - cause you don't really have any other options left!") [quote=The Great Ag;456257]Even if the mint did not "release" the coins, they are still property of the people. My reasoning is this, at that time, a private citizen could bring gold and silver bullion (in all forms) and have it minted into coinage. The gov't just insures the quality. Does that make sense? [/quote] Well, had you brought private bullion in and had it minted you would certainly have a point - but by then I don't think they were still doing much, if any, of that - at least, nothing I have read said they were still doing it then! I think, not sure, gold was coming from mining companies, mainly out in CA but other states too. We can look up where the gold was coming from at that point - your book probably says (I know the general story but haven't read the book yet - I just finished a review book "Coins For Dummies" by Ron Guth and am now into two books by David Bowers (whose books form the central core of PCGS's page on coin notes_ - one of collecting rare coins and the other is <!--StartFragment -->A Guide Book Of US Morgans....once I get done with those I will move to the book you and Anty EP are reading........which, considering my workload will be summer!)....but regardless, TPTB say that its theirs and I don't think we're big enough to take it from them........plus it was 1933, its a bit late now, tho I would LOVE one of those coins! See - if you guys voted for me I would fix all this stuff! You'd think you guys would have learnt the lesson from Vons! :rofl: And since when has ANYONE used the words "government" and "quality" in the same sentence - let alone the same topic? REMEMBER THIS AND TAKE IT TO THE GRAVE WITH YOU! (I was taught it by a Mafia figure 40 years back and, by god, its true!) MAFIA - Organized crime GOVERNMENT - Disorganized crime

Master_Ho | 12-28-2006 06:09 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 456257) Even if the mint did not "release" the coins, they are still property of the people. My reasoning is this, at that time, a private citizen could bring gold and silver bullion (in all forms) and have it minted into coinage. The gov't just insures the quality. Does that make sense? The Great Ag
Time To Tame The <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region><st1:place>U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> Mint<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> By: David Bond<o:p></o:p> -- Posted <st1:date Month="12" Day="28" Year="2006">28 December, 2006</st1:date> | Digg This Article <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Wallace, <st1:State><st1:place>Idaho</st1:place></st1:State> � It's really quite past time to tame the <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> Mint. First the SOBs went for Bernard Von Nothaus's jugular by unilaterally declaring the silver <st1:City><st1:place>Liberty</st1:place></st1:City> dollars illegal for tender. And now, they propose to tell us exactly what we can and cannot do with our pennies and nickels.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Here is what the Mint said in its 14th December press release: <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> �Washington, D.C. -- The <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> Mint has implemented regulations to limit the exportation, melting, or treatment of one-cent (penny) and 5-cent (nickel) <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> coins, to safeguard against a potential shortage of these coins in circulation. The <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> Mint is soliciting public comment on the interim rule, which is being published in the Federal Register. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> �Prevailing prices of copper, nickel and zinc have caused the production costs of pennies and nickels to significantly exceed their respective face values. The <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> Mint also has received a steady flow of inquiries from the public over the past several months concerning the metal value of these coins and whether it is legal to melt them. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> "We are taking this action because the Nation needs its coinage for commerce," said Director Ed Moy. "We don't want to see our pennies and nickels melted down so a few individuals can take advantage of the American taxpayer. Replacing these coins would be an enormous cost to taxpayers." <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> �Specifically, the new regulations prohibit, with certain exceptions, the melting or treatment of all one-cent and 5-cent coins. The regulations also prohibit the unlicensed exportation of these coins, except that travelers may take up to $5 in these coins out of the country, and individuals may ship up to $100 in these coins out of the country in any one shipment for legitimate coinage and numismatic purposes. In all essential respects, these regulations are patterned after the Department of the Treasury's regulations prohibiting the exportation, melting, or treatment of silver coins between 1967 and 1969, and the regulations prohibiting the exportation, melting, or treatment of one-cent coins between 1974 and 1978. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> �The new regulations authorize a fine of not more than $10,000, or imprisonment of not more than five years, or both, against a person who knowingly violates the regulations. �In addition, by law, any coins exported, melted, or treated in violation of the regulation shall be forfeited to the <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> Government. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> �The regulations are being issued in the form of an interim rule, to be effective for a period of 120 days from the time of publication. The interim rule states that during a 30-day period from the date of publication, the public can submit written comments to the <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> Mint on the regulations. Upon consideration of such comments, the Director of the <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> Mint would then issue the final rule. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> �Those interested in providing comments to the <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> Mint regarding this interim rule must submit them in writing to the Office of <st1:place><st1:City>Chief</st1:City><st1:State>Counsel</st1:State>, <st1:country-region>United States</st1:country-region></st1:place> Mint, <st1:address><st1:Street>801 9th Street, N.W.</st1:Street>, <st1:City>Washington</st1:City><st1:State>D.C.</st1:State><st1:PostalCode>20220</st1:PostalCode></st1:address>, by <st1:date Month="1" Day="14" Year="2007">January 14, 2007</st1:date>. The interim rule appears on the <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> Mint website at www.usmint.gov. The <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> Mint will make public all comments it receives regarding this interim rule, and may not consider confidential any information contained in comments. �<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Hmmmmmmm. Herewith our comments, to be provided to the mint by the 14th January deadline:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Dear Mr. or Mrs. Mint:<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Are you people insane? First, you declared trafficking in Norfed's <st1:City><st1:place>Liberty</st1:place></st1:City> coins a crime. This, despite the fact that there is no legal proscription against barter. If my neighbour wants to accept my silver in lieu of Federal Reserve Notes for an item we've agreed he will sell to me, that's nobody's business.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> But this business of telling me what I can and cannot do with my pennies and nickels is a haughty, unconstitutional affront. An insult. Have you people not ever heard of the concept of private property? My pennies and nickels are my property. I obtained them through my labours (believe me, pennies are what writers get paid in most days). Now, forgive a little digression here, but are these pennies and nickels not my property, if I have obtained them legally?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> When does what I do or not do with my property become the business of the <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> Mint? What's next? Are you going to tell me I can't recycle my newspapers, because wood is scarce? Or re-impose that old law against removing the tags from my bedding? <o:p></o:p> And if I obey your proposed directive and continue to accumulate pennies and nickels � because there is nothing else to do with them except as perhaps the poor-man's option play on base metals � are you later going to accuse me of hoarding? And will this then lead to another federal rule: That I cannot hoard my zinc pennies and nickels, and must surrender them to the United Snakes Government for a paper instrument that is any more not even a receipt or certificate?<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Of course, we are ignoring the larger question of, Why is a stack of 100 pennies or 20 nickels worth more than a FedNote? You've admitted as much in your proposed and wretchedly repugnant regulation. You refer to �prevailing prices of copper, nickel and zinc� exceeding the face value of your coins. Well, Mr. and Mrs. Mint, whose fault is that? To the extent that you're in cahoots with the Federal Reserve, it's your fault. But it is more important to point out to you is that the real prices of copper, nickel, zinc, lead, silver and gold have been relatively static over the past three decades, indeed in steady decline over the past millennium. What's changed is the dollar's ability to purchase these metals. This is not our fault. It's the fault of your masters.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> So to avoid your proposed sanctions, we are compelled to insist that future payment for our labours be made not in pennies or nickels, but in Norfed Liberty dollars, the melting-down of which you do not propose to criminalize. <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> However, brace yourselves for good news. You have an alternative to criminalizing our behaviour with regard to our private property. You can further debase the currency, just as you did with our quarters, dimes, halves and dollars back in the 1960s. You can issue, Ahem! the Wooden Nickel!<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Now, we've been advised since we were knee-high to the proverbial grass-hopper not to take wooden nickels. But a wooden nickel issued by the U.S. Mint? Why, we could take that to the bank. Pay off W's multi-trillion-dollar debts to <st1:country-region><st1:place>China</st1:place></st1:country-region> and <st1:place>Europe</st1:place> with wooden nickels. Just declare the wooden nickel legal tender for all debts public and private � the way the paper FedNote is so declared now. QED, all current account deficit problems solved. Yes, the Wooden Nickel. It's time is come.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> From the Melting Pot and with no respect intended we remain,<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Yours Truly,<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> The Guilty<o:p></o:p>

Anty Ep | 01-08-2007 11:21 AM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 454573) Hey, Anty Ep: Thanks for the book recommendation! :congrats: I got it for Christmas from my wife. I have read the prologue, and I'm hooked. :party30: Also received a 1881 S Morgan silver dollar probably MS62 or 63 that is almost proof like! Hope you and your family had a great Christmas. The Great Ag
Yes it was fantastic. God has smiled upon us.

Anty Ep | 01-08-2007 11:23 AM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 455862) Hey, Anty Ep: Very good book so far. I'm at the point wherre the Secret Service has just questions Switt regarding his connections to the cashier at the Philly mint. So far I have a question, and I wonder if anyone can answer it? Do not coins belong to the public? I understand the gov't is charged with maintaining accurate weights and measures with minting coins and printing FRNs, but doesn't the money belong to the people, and not the gov't? The Great Ag
good question. "the people" is an abstraction and the government is a tangible thing. the government is the representative of the people, in a very real way, though, so the government acts like it IS the people even though most of the time we all know damn well it isnt.

The Great Ag | 01-08-2007 05:53 PM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 466746) good question. "the people" is an abstraction and the government is a tangible thing. the government is the representative of the people, in a very real way, though, so the government acts like it IS the people even though most of the time we all know damn well it isnt.
Hey: Anty Ep Wonderful book. It would make a great movie! What's interesting is how the gov't went after the 1993 Double Eagle, but did not care about the 1913 Liberty Nickels that were minted. I wonder why? What was truly interesting is the gov't only wanted to retain title to the coin. It did not care who sold it, or to whom, only that it retained title. In relation to your quote, I think it's the other way around, "The People" is tangible and the "Gov't" an abstraction. Where is gov't? You can show me buildings and workers who work in those buildings, but is that gov't? Workers and buildings? I can open my office window and see "The People," but I can't find any gov't. If those buildings were destoryed would gov't be destroyed, too? By contrast, the totality of "The People" can be destroyed, eliminated, definitely. I wonder if "Gov't" would disappear then, too? The Great Ag

Anty Ep | 03-19-2007 09:52 AM
Re: book: Double Eagle by Frankel I'm bumping this thread in light of developments-- 10 more double eagles found, in possession of israel switt's grandkids-- exactly as Ms Frankel suggested in this book. applause for ms frankel who clearly researched and understood the topic she wrote about.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:01 PM. |

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright = None use it and Link to GIM