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- - Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=38280)

SilverCollector | 06-09-2006 07:30 PM
Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) I bought a fake 2000 Panda from China, at first by mistake then accepted it, as it was very cheap. Actually I expected it to never be shipped, to complete the rip-off. Not only did the fake show up, but the guy slipped in a 1885 Morgan silver dollar. I just looked it up on http://www.us-coin-values-advisor.com and at the low end it's valued $15-$20. I'm no coin appraiser, but this is in very good condition. Just it's melt value is almost $10. BTW the Panda cost me $10 -- :thumbs up Tell me what condition you would rate this freebie -- http://morePower7.home.att.net/Morgan1885Fr.jpg http://morePower7.home.att.net/Morgan1885Rr.jpg

Silver Scout | 06-09-2006 07:43 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) 1 Attachment(s) 2 fakes for the price of one! what a deal!

markam | 06-09-2006 07:46 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) I bet the morgan is fake also. They sell huge numbers of fake morgans.

SilverCollector | 06-09-2006 08:31 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Damn! I didn't know they were counterfieting Morgans also. Grrrrrr!!!!!! :( I'm going to weight this bad coin NOW!!!!!

SilverCollector | 06-09-2006 08:38 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) That dirty rotten SOB. The coin weighs 19.7 grams not the 26.7 grams. Never ever never ever ever ever trust a china man!!!!! Oh well, $10 for an important education. Cheapest lesson ever. Weigh ALL coins.

SilverCollector | 06-09-2006 08:40 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) You have to admit these guy work HARD to make a dishonest living. :)

markam | 06-09-2006 08:48 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) At least you didn't take it to a dealer and get either laughed at or arrested for counterfeiting.

SilverCollector | 06-09-2006 08:59 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by markam At least you didn't take it to a dealer and get either laughed at or arrested for counterfeiting.
Good point and Yikes!!! My triple-beam balance was a good investment. :)

runcible | 06-09-2006 09:56 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Why do you think the Morgan is real?

SilverCollector | 06-09-2006 10:28 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by runcible Why do you think the Morgan is real?
Good question. How do you know? How do I or anybody know???? I have some gold and paladium ingots coming in. They are packaged right, stamped with Assay Certificated inscriptions, etc... How do you KNOW??? I have had 2006 silver pandas fake and genuine both in my hands and the same time. They looked absolutely IDENTICAL, but only weighing different. Is weighing alone the answer? Is that really enough? Should I break them apart? Do some drilling and a chemical analysis? Do I break into the Gold/Palladium mint packaging and weigh or not???? How do you KNOW???? Is this to be taken as a religious thing, where you believe to believe? To make youself feel good. Why weigh at all? Buy and be happy? Is that the answer???

runcible | 06-09-2006 11:05 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) While it is possible to make an alloy that would weigh the same as silver, I'm not aware of any fakes that do so. I'd weigh it. According to wikipedia: Mass: 26.73 g Diameter: 38.1 mm Thickness: 3.1 mm PS: "Vartian says it's illegal to own counterfeit coins if your intention is to defraud others with them (sell them as genuine), and it's illegal to refuse to surrender them if the government asks you to. According to Robert W. Hoge, former curator at the American Numismatic Association and current curator at the American Numismatic Society, those who elect to keep counterfeits should clearly identify them on the labels of their holders to help prevent them from someday inadvertently being sold as genuine coins." - source.

Prometheus | 06-09-2006 11:31 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by runcible While it is possible to make an alloy that would weigh the same as silver, I'm not aware of any fakes that do so.
Gold is impossible to counterfit to the same weight. Unless you use something that is much more expensive per ounce, I believe it's uranium thats is the closest or something. Anyway it's not something people would do cause they'd be losing money even if they could get their hands on it. Silver is basically the same thing, size and weight are just too hard to duplicate at anything below 50 bucks an ounce basically. Even at 50 bucks an ounce they can't get it spot on. Find out how much the case weights (for you assayed bars) and then you can figure it out. Contact the company and I'm sure they'd tell you what a packaged bar of theirs should weight.

SilverCollector | 06-09-2006 11:41 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus Gold is impossible to counterfit to the same weight. Unless you use something that is much more expensive per ounce, I believe it's uranium thats is the closest or something. Anyway it's not something people would do cause they'd be losing money even if they could get their hands on it. Silver is basically the same thing, size and weight are just too hard to duplicate at anything below 50 bucks an ounce basically. Even at 50 bucks an ounce they can't get it spot on. Find out how much the case weights (for you assayed bars) and then you can figure it out. Contact the company and I'm sure they'd tell you what a packaged bar of theirs should weight.
Fake Panda's are noticalble thinner, but you might not be able to recognize that unless you remove them from their mylar+airTite dual packaging. One seller balked, but finally relented when I pressed him over my determined weighing of the coin sans all packaging. Sounds like I'm going to have get out the dial-calipers to measure the coins as well as weighing them. Anybody ever hear of US Silver Eagles being counterfieted. I've over 700 of them, and don't look forward to measuring and weighing all or most of them. :elefant: BTW, what's with the dancing elephant. He's just so clickable. :)

markam | 06-10-2006 01:20 AM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
I've over 700 of them, and don't look forward to measuring and weighing all or most of them
Tell you what, if you mail them to me I would be glad to check them out for you. I will dispose of all the fake ones properly.

graspAU | 06-10-2006 08:00 AM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Scammers should die. How did you run across this horrible person? Ebay? Do you buy your Eagles from a reputable dealer? What is the scale name and model you have. Do you recommend it? And where to get it? Thanks and sorry about your loss.

SilverCollector | 06-10-2006 09:31 AM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by scottp999 Scammers should die. How did you run across this horrible person? Ebay? Do you buy your Eagles from a reputable dealer? What is the scale name and model you have. Do you recommend it? And where to get it? Thanks and sorry about your loss.
Ebay is a good source for used Ohaus triple beams for $20-$30, if your patient. Even new Ohaus cost less then half what they cost at Amazon. I wouldn't know where to purchase retail and am certain the cost would be staggering. :

GoldenSheikUrBootie | 06-10-2006 09:34 AM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) There's no 100 Y yaun value on the fake coins. Ebay has a reference site for fake Pandas.

RealityCheck | 06-11-2006 12:18 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) I thought the advantage of 90% was that it could not be faked? If its this easy to make fakes, how do we know all the coins we got from those intro offers are real? :bawling:

SilverCollector | 06-11-2006 01:29 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenSheikUrBootie There's no 100 Y yaun value on the fake coins. Ebay has a reference site for fake Pandas.
There's plenty of fakes with the Yuan value showing. Certainly stay away from coins with no denomination imprint, but that in and of itself is not nearly enough. :cool1:

Metalophile | 06-12-2006 02:00 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCollector That dirty rotten SOB. The coin weighs 19.7 grams not the 26.7 grams. Never ever never ever ever ever trust a china man!!!!! Oh well, $10 for an important education. Cheapest lesson ever. Weigh ALL coins.
Hey! Don't tarnish the reputation of all Chinese! :afraid: I'm a 2 1/2th generation ABC (American-born Chinese). I think the more honest members of my race moved to the Western Hemisphere and left the cointerfeiters, commies, crooks, and copyright breakers in the homeland.

Big_Rob | 06-12-2006 02:12 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Take a magnet and put it on both coins for the real surprise....

TheKingsSon | 06-12-2006 02:15 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCollector Never ever never ever ever ever trust a china man!!!!!
Ah sooooooooooooo you tiny grausshoppar

SilverCollector | 06-12-2006 02:54 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalophile Hey! Don't tarnish the reputation of all Chinese! :afraid: I'm a 2 1/2th generation ABC (American-born Chinese). I think the more honest members of my race moved to the Western Hemisphere and left the cointerfeiters, commies, crooks, and copyright breakers in the homeland.
:stickyman

bestofgold | 06-19-2006 02:01 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) when buying krugers 1 0z coins....no certificate is given either by shops or by internet sales like apmex or goldline intl....would this be a problem while selling these?

SilverCollector | 06-19-2006 02:41 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by bestofgold (Post 277763) when buying krugers 1 0z coins....no certificate is given either by shops or by internet sales like apmex or goldline intl....would this be a problem while selling these?
I can make you a certificate. What's it worth to you???

The Argent Dragon | 06-19-2006 02:43 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by bestofgold (Post 277763) when buying krugers 1 0z coins....no certificate is given either by shops or by internet sales like apmex or goldline intl....would this be a problem while selling these?
I can buy several 'original' sleeves with certificates for about 25-cents each............how many do you need ?

TomD | 06-19-2006 04:51 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) 1 Attachment(s) When I got my fake Pandas, they sent along as a consolation prize I suppose, six very realistic fakes. One, a Morgan, fooled a friend who is heavily into Morgans. I've given the "Morgan" and 2 others away, here are the three I have left.

graspAU | 06-19-2006 07:44 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by bestofgold (Post 277763) when buying krugers 1 0z coins....no certificate is given either by shops or by internet sales like apmex or goldline intl....would this be a problem while selling these?
Should not be a problem, allthey would need is a scale to tell if the piece is truly 22k gold.

latemetal | 06-19-2006 08:50 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) aaarrrggghhhh, Fake peso coins?? Shoot them lousy fakers.:censored: :censored: :censored:

Worldmariner | 12-26-2006 05:38 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverCollector (Post 270071) I bought a fake 2000 Panda from China, at first by mistake then accepted it, as it was very cheap. Actually I expected it to never be shipped, to complete the rip-off. Not only did the fake show up, but the guy slipped in a 1885 Morgan silver dollar. I just looked it up on http://www.us-coin-values-advisor.com and at the low end it's valued $15-$20. I'm no coin appraiser, but this is in very good condition. Just it's melt value is almost $10. BTW the Panda cost me $10 -- :thumbs up Tell me what condition you would rate this freebie --
I would say that it is a high quality fake. :) I bought 5 in Manilaa last august for $2US each. I use them for my "dummy" stash. Have you weighed and measured this coin? Think of it as having two coins towards your own dummy/decoy stash.

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Gold & Silver Forum - Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :)

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- Gold - Silver - Coins - Numismatics (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
- - Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=38280)

Worldmariner | 12-26-2006 05:45 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by runcible (Post 270247) While it is possible to make an alloy that would weigh the same as silver, I'm not aware of any fakes that do so. .
Negative! If it were possible then EVERYONE would be doing it. Nope. That is the magic of an element. It weighs only what it weighs. You can fake a PM coin, but something will be wrong. The size OR the weight OR both. Not open to debate. It is a law of physics. the weight and size are correct together for a given metal, or it is not that metal. Plain and simple. Weigh and measure a coin and you will know with certainty if it is right.

kolya | 12-26-2006 06:53 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Sorry for asking a noob question guys but what is the range of acceptability for the weight of a coin. I bought some 1979 Onza's and all weighed 1.185oz except for four which weighed 1.180oz? This is okay right?

highroller4321 | 12-26-2006 10:56 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) DID U NOT READ MY TEN POSTS ABOUT NOT BUYING OVERSEAS ON EBAY...WOW!!!!! THINK B4 U DO THINGS

Worldmariner | 12-26-2006 11:29 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by bestofgold (Post 277763) when buying krugers 1 0z coins....no certificate is given either by shops or by internet sales like apmex or goldline intl....would this be a problem while selling these?
I have sold many gold coins on eBay... To give the buyer some protection and confidence, I personally weigh and measure each gold coin to ensure it's authenticity, and I guarantee the coin to be authentic or I will refund the buyer's money. I macro photo each gold coin I sell, so as to discourage a buyer from trying to do a coin switch and get money back for a different coin. Also, all coins are shipped with signature required for delivery. Yes, it is a hassel, but once you have the system down, it is not that hard. That is my experience. Of course, I do not sell to overseas buyers because the international registered mail is just too expensive. I have purchased gold sovs from NZ one time, before I knew better. I suggest that a person ONLY purchase from eBay from inside the USA.

Worldmariner | 12-26-2006 11:35 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) Quote:
Originally Posted by kolya (Post 455401) Sorry for asking a noob question guys but what is the range of acceptability for the weight of a coin. I bought some 1979 Onza's and all weighed 1.185oz except for four which weighed 1.180oz? This is okay right?
Wow, that is way within tolerance! I would guess that that coin is good if the size is right. I have had gold one ounce coins be off by an eigth gram before. Certified coins from PGCS. A fake will usually be more then a millimeter off in diameter or thickness (but not always) and usually several grams off in weight, in my experience. Maybe a coin shop would be a good place to verify a questiobale coin?

Weatherman | 12-27-2006 01:01 AM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldmariner (Post 455347) Negative! If it were possible then EVERYONE would be doing it. Nope. That is the magic of an element. It weighs only what it weighs. You can fake a PM coin, but something will be wrong. The size OR the weight OR both. Not open to debate. It is a law of physics. the weight and size are correct together for a given metal, or it is not that metal. Plain and simple. Weigh and measure a coin and you will know with certainty if it is right.
Measuring weight and size works great for gold because it is more dense than most other elements. However, those measurements are not enough for silver. Attachment 22197 http://www.bibliobase.com/Chemistry/...pdf_doc/05.pdf Lead is a little more dense than silver, and it can easily be used to make fake silver items. Just melt in a small amount of a less dense metal like copper or zinc (maybe a few U.S. pennies per pound of lead), and the result can be an alloy with exactly the same density as pure silver. That means the size and weight of a fake silver coin or bar can be correct. It is necessary to also consider other characteristics, such as markings, appearance, hardness, and sound when the item is hit to make it vibrate.

Big_Rob | 12-27-2006 03:21 PM
Re: Fake Panda from China + BONUS!!!! :) I bet ya if you take a magnet and run it over that morgan, it'll stick to it.

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