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- - Should I buy this coin? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=116521)

Mujahideen | 03-07-2007 11:29 PM
Should I buy this coin? 2006 PCGS PR70 20TH ANNIVERSARY REVERSE PROOF SIL EAGLE ORIGINAL MINT BOX INCLUDED. http://i18.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/81/3d/89b9_1.JPG http://i3.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/81/3d/801c_1.JPG http://i23.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/81/3d/92ac_1.JPG PCGS PR70. It dosent get better than that. Do you think this would be a wise buy? It goes for around $1000 on ebay

negative1 | 03-08-2007 12:29 AM
Re: Should I buy this coin? Up to you. But I would not. -1

ajrocks | 03-08-2007 12:34 AM
Re: Should I buy this coin? I would say no!!!! But then again for a 1000, I can get some gold and silver. Is it really worth it? Well I just searched and the same is going for upto 1400. If you are a collector sure why not, how many are there though that are ms70, there seem to be a few. Are you going to buy it and flip it, might be worth it as in the search I saw ended auctions that they went for 1400+ so might be. Sorry my reply is a bit wishy washy, but think of all the silver gold you could get!!! :eek_ma:

Master_Ho | 03-08-2007 01:08 AM
Re: Should I buy this coin? Quote:
Originally Posted by ajrocks (Post 533640) Well I just searched and the same is going for upto 1400. If you are a collector sure why not, how many are there though that are ms70, there seem to be a few.
PCGS only graded about 6% at 70....... And its listed at PCGS as $1475.........and thats only in the past few months..........what will it be worth in 5 years? So if you are a collector - knowing that coin has a limit of 250,000 (as opposed to 3+ million) and you want the coin - odds are it will only go up in value over the years. If you are new to metals, and don't have a supply of gold and or silver, it might be better to invest it in eagles, maples or even 90% silver.

HiHoSilver64 | 03-08-2007 01:14 AM
Re: Should I buy this coin? YES . . . only if you already own double your body weight in silver and 50 pounds of gold bullion. Buy the metal first then for a hobby dabble in rare coins or numismatics.

Mujahideen | 03-08-2007 06:13 AM
Re: Should I buy this coin? Yeah. I was just wondering if this coin would out preform $1000s worth in metal. Ive had people tell me I would be stupid to do so, and ive had people tell me it would be great buy, so that really wasnt much help at all. Im not really into numismatics, but this is a PCGS PR70 reverse frosting :drool: if this coin will be worth $2000 in a couple years and the price of gold/silver has not doubled, I will be very sad :( I was hoping everyone here would say hell yeah buy that coin, I really wanna buy it. But then again, $1000s in gold/silver looks just as good. They should start making Eagles with the reverse frosting, I think it looks way cooler, not that it didnt already look good, but I mean wow! :drool:

ajrocks | 03-08-2007 07:34 AM
Re: Should I buy this coin? Quote:
Originally Posted by Mujahideen (Post 533806) Yeah. I was just wondering if this coin would out preform $1000s worth in metal. Ive had people tell me I would be stupid to do so, and ive had people tell me it would be great buy, so that really wasnt much help at all. Im not really into numismatics, but this is a PCGS PR70 reverse frosting :drool: if this coin will be worth $2000 in a couple years and the price of gold/silver has not doubled, I will be very sad :( I was hoping everyone here would say hell yeah buy that coin, I really wanna buy it. But then again, $1000s in gold/silver looks just as good. They should start making Eagles with the reverse frosting, I think it looks way cooler, not that it didn't already look good, but I mean wow! :drool:
um let me redo my post, if you're drooling and really want it go for it!!! We have a Mercedes and SAAB, my poor friends while jealous of the Mercedes slk280, will tell me why it's better they own a Honda, Ford, GM, What ever... better gas mileage, they could by 4 of them to our one...etc. Yup but it's not a Mercedes 0-60 in about 4 secs. yup when I drive it I do it!!! YEA HAW!!! Sometimes you throw caution to the wind!!! Can't always be fearful of WTSHTF. You still have to live!! If it won't break ya, enjoy it. :coolbeer::clap2::rock:

Tn...Andy | 03-08-2007 07:58 AM
Re: Should I buy this coin? If you're buying it simply because you like it and can afford it, buy it. If you're buying it as an "investment"......then you are dependent on the "greater fool theory"......that you can find a greater fool than you to give you more for it. I think the supply of fools may be short down the road. I don't buy numismatic anythings.

Wyldwil | 03-08-2007 08:34 AM
Re: Should I buy this coin? Hey now! Why not buy it....and then send it to me?!!!! (PM me for shipping address.)

RossL | 03-08-2007 09:26 AM
Re: Should I buy this coin? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 533855) I don't buy numismatic anythings.
I do own a lot of numismatics, and those purchases are based on rarity and beauty. And personal preference. The proof eagle is a beautiful coin, but not rare. The MS70-PF70 phenomonon is an artifically induced rarity. If PCGS suddenly starts grading more coins as 70s then the price will drop.

oldmansmith | 03-08-2007 09:38 AM
Re: Should I buy this coin? I bought one from the mint for $100.00, and even then I wasn't sure about it, now I wish I'd bought a few! Not graded, but could be PS-70, who knows? $1,000 seems like way too much to me.

Pragmatist | 03-08-2007 01:20 PM
Re: Should I buy this coin? If you are going to go for it, get the entire set. The Proof W is a hot coin too (the next 95 W?). I think the Black Label Set will have more value. http://www.apmex.com/Product/23236/2...0__PF_70_.aspx In For A Dime, In For A Dollar. -Prag

Satyr | 03-08-2007 02:33 PM
Re: Should I buy this coin? Quote:
Originally Posted by Mujahideen (Post 533806) They should start making Eagles with the reverse frosting, I think it looks way cooler, not that it didnt already look good, but I mean wow! :drool:
If you simply like the looks of the reverse proof, then just buy the boxed 3 coin set for about $300. It would be cheaper for you and still a safe bet that it will go up in value. You could always send it in to be graded. I have 2 sets myself. I think one of the reverse proofs has a good chance of grading at 70. I'm almost tempted to send it in.

Master_Ho | 03-08-2007 06:06 PM
Re: Should I buy this coin? Quote:
Originally Posted by Mujahideen (Post 533806) I was just wondering if this coin would out preform $1000s worth in metal. Ive had people tell me I would be stupid to do so, and ive had people tell me it would be great buy, so that really wasnt much help at all.
The problem, as I see it, is two fold........... First.........there have always been two opposing schools on coins - those that only buy bullion, and those who buy bullion and collect numismatic. In both cases, these people, when giving advice, give it based on, mainly, two things - which camp they come from and their interests or prejudices, pro or con. Those who only buy bullion - predominantly - have not studied the field, nor know very much about it - so they, generally speaking, post their opinions against. (There are, no doubt, a few exceptions, but they are very few - the handful of people who collect numismatic on GIM are greatly outnumbered and get worn out defending the less popular side.) Secondly, no one knows the future........including both groups, even those in numismatics can only guess - no one knows for sure. When we look at the dynamics of this coin we see a few things. Its a very small mintage - only 250,000 compared to the next lowest of 3.6 million. It is also the ONLY reversed proof of this coin ever minted.........those two factors SUGGEST the POSSIBLITY that it will go up in value. There are a couple of million numismatic collectors at the very least and not enough coins for them all by far. Thats why the price has gone up as much as it has as quickly as it has. But there is OTHER factor........some people have suggested you just buy a set from Ebay for about $300 and have it graded. Here are the facts - PCGS has only graded about 6% at PR 70 - the majority of the rest have been PR 69. How do I know this? I took in some sets to have them graded and my dealer, when he talked to PCGS, was told that. (So if, down the road, things turn out different, this is what we were told by PCGS yesterday!) There was a man who had 95 sets and not one of the two proof coins in them, not one of 190 coins, graded at MS 70!! If that is true then 94% of the coins graded are NOT PR 70. Will PR 69 coins go up further in value? Yes, I suspect so, at least for the reverse proof - for the other, its the most common of the three coins and is worth the least of the three right now. So, when one considers the rarity of the reverse proof, especially in PR 70, and that there are not enough for all those who collect the eagle series - then there is a very GOOD possibility it will be worth a lot more in the years to come. (The so-called "greater fool theory" implies that anyone who buys numismatics is a fool, cause they could have just bought bullion - those people are entitled to their opinion - however, one could argue, its like saying anyone who bought a car was a greater fool when they could have bought a bike! Throughout history, there have always been numismatic collectors and many, if not most, of those who do some research and study do well!) An example of a similar recent coin released - the 2001 silver Buffalo sold for - forgive me, I am working off the top of my head, but I think I am right or close - $45 from the mint - people sold it at $75 on Ebay and thought they made a killing - that coin can go for as much as $200-450 now. I just tried to check PCGS's page but its down, I will edit this with the correct price when I can access it!) But, the bottomline is - only YOU can decide! YOU have to see how much silver and gold you own and if you wnat this or more bullion.........YOU have to decide how badly you want this coin........its already listed at $1475 and its only been a few months.......YOU and only YOU can decide.........and, when taking advice, I would take bullion advice from bullion buyers (hopefully successful ones), and trading advice from traders who have traded well, and numismatic advise from people who actually know something about numismatics. You know what they say about opinions! And whatever you do - buy what you ENJOY! Good luck in all your future purchases! Cheers! PS. Oh, of all the sets I had graded I had ONE PR 70, and I was extrememly lucky (for once) and it was the reverse proof and yes, I DO enjoy it!

Anty Ep | 03-08-2007 06:44 PM
Re: Should I buy this coin? buying numismatic is like buying art, like paintings. it's collected by people with wealth. there will ALWAYS be people with wealth. in tough times, it's the sellers who drop their prices-- the buyers are still out there buying, accumulating. I promise you, the currency and the federal government can collapse, and there will still be people out there buying fine art and numismatic alike. now, lots of coin shops would shutter their doors if SHTF, but the market would still be there at the high level. the only problem with the idea of selling when SHTF, is that you have to do every deal like a dope deal, where you got to have security holding the stuff and a simultaneous exchange of product for value. And in every deal you may get hijacked if you dont have the muscle to prevent it. Keep that in mind when y'all are laying back "preps." How will you protect your castle when you're asleep? True security lays in trustworthy people backing you up, not just guns and PMs and a stack of MREs.

Tn...Andy | 03-08-2007 07:08 PM
Re: Should I buy this coin? Ahahahaaaaaaaa.....didn't mean to step on your toes Ho ! (The so-called "greater fool theory" implies that anyone who buys numismatics is a fool, cause they could have just bought bullion - those people are entitled to their opinion - however, one could argue, its like saying anyone who bought a car was a greater fool when they could have bought a bike! Throughout history, there have always been numismatic collectors and many, if not most, of those who do some research and study do well!) I would take issue with your "Throughout history" statement on numismatic. My guess is only recently ( like the last 50-100 years ) has collecting coins for their rarity or beauty been going on to any amount. How old are the 'rating' services ? No, for MOSTof history, coins were just money. They were spent and circulated. What is the earliest "proof" coin around ? My guess is somewhere after 1850 or so...probably later. My ignorance of the subject may be showing. My point of the "greater fool theory" is the market is TOTALLY artificial.....just like the market in Barbie Dolls or Baseball cards. And I think it is simply a market and a sign that is is WAY too much easy disposable cash availiable at this point in history. Should that change down the road, and we return to the 'norm' of history where grubbing for a living took priority over collecting art, the "market" in collectibles could easily evaporate.

mjk1971 | 03-08-2007 07:40 PM
Re: Should I buy this coin? Quote:
Originally Posted by Mujahideen (Post 533587) 2006 PCGS PR70 20TH ANNIVERSARY REVERSE PROOF SIL EAGLE ORIGINAL MINT BOX INCLUDED. http://i18.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/81/3d/89b9_1.JPG http://i3.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/81/3d/801c_1.JPG http://i23.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/81/3d/92ac_1.JPG PCGS PR70. It dosent get better than that. Do you think this would be a wise buy? It goes for around $1000 on ebay
PR70 coins are bling bling for rich folk. :bear_rolleyes:

Master_Ho | 03-08-2007 08:27 PM
Re: Should I buy this coin? Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 534362) Ahahahaaaaaaaa.....didn't mean to step on your toes Ho !
Thats ok - I wasn't taking it personally - and I have big toes - we're all Bozos on THIS bus - so we all have big feet! Bozo wore a size 83AAA.......thats actually true! Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 534362) (The so-called "greater fool theory" implies that anyone who buys numismatics is a fool, cause they could have just bought bullion - those people are entitled to their opinion - however, one could argue, its like saying anyone who bought a car was a greater fool when they could have bought a bike! Throughout history, there have always been numismatic collectors and many, if not most, of those who do some research and study do well!) I would take issue with your "Throughout history" statement on numismatic. My guess is only recently ( like the last 50-100 years ) has collecting coins for their rarity or beauty been going on to any amount. How old are the 'rating' services ?
PCGS in 1986, NGC in 1987........and in a way it was good cause it stopped a lot of sellers from over-grading their coins and selling them to unsuspecting buyers.......but even then, I have talked to dealers who felt some coins they graded should have been graded a little better or worse. But before that, you could take the same coin to 10 different dealers and get told it was 10 different grades........or worse, buy a coin from a dealer, take it in the next day to sell it, and get told it was a lot less of a grade then the day before when you bought it from the same guy - the field was a mess........while PCGS, and to a lessor extent, NGC, are not perfect, they ARE an improvement and standardized the field........but even today there are other grading services that are a laugh and smart buyers do not buy coins from them....but you see them a lot on Ebay! And I probably should have said "recent history" but then, when did that start exactly? And people have collected coins LONG before there was a commercial industry........many collectors still collect them, like matchbooks, just to have full collections of a type, a year or cause they like them, not for investment purposes. One reason we have so many coins from older centuries is cause people collected them - the buying and selling thing is more recent for sure! But I am not an expert on world coins - or even US coins - I only collect gold and silver ones.......so my knowledge is only to specific areas (and I don't talk about the areas I don't know enough about - tho I am reading and studying!) Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 534362) No, for MOSTof history, coins were just money. They were spent and circulated. What is the earliest "proof" coin around ? My guess is somewhere after 1850 or so...probably later. My ignorance of the subject may be showing.
Damn good guess - the first proof coins from the US were minted in 1858! (1858 is a good 150 years now, recent history to me is say, the last 50.) Not sure about in other countries - another numismatic collector might know! Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 534362) My point of the "greater fool theory" is the market is TOTALLY artificial.....just like the market in Barbie Dolls or Baseball cards. And I think it is simply a market and a sign that is is WAY too much easy disposable cash availiable at this point in history. Should that change down the road, and we return to the 'norm' of history where grubbing for a living took priority over collecting art, the "market" in collectibles could easily evaporate.
Well, I do see your point on one level - and yes, its people with money that tend to collect the high-end numismatics (and there have always been people with money and people who collect fine art and rare items, Anty Ep posted a great post on that above).........semi-numismatics are available to all........but when you say its "totally artificial" (and I could debate either side of that coin, pun intended) its still controlled by supply and demand.......be it coins, Barbie dolls, baseball cards or drugs.......the more people want them, the higher a price one can get for them. (See - I am not into baseball at all, or baseball cards, but I do sort of understand why people pay for them to a point- cause there aren't anymore of the older ones - and with the things you mentioned, there too, there is a demand cause there aren't any more of those being made.......and they hold a place in history - another reason people buy coins).......but bottomline - its supply and demand........ When TSHTF there wouldn't be the same demand - the good news on these coins is that, if that day ever came, gold and silver will probably have gone up so much we'd all be making a nice profit, numismatic or not. My personal rule of thumb is - if I have a choice between an ounce of bullion, or an ounce of gold numismatic (and its a decent coin, and one I want) - if the price is fairly close, I grab the numismatic one. The problem I see in GIM bullion/numismatic discussions in general (not your post) is that many do not understand there is a diference between numismatic (high end and expensive) and semi-numismatic (which is what people like Bob Chapman and others are talking about buying, much closer to the price of bullion right now)........paying $10,000 for an ounce of old gold is silly unless one is really rich, of course, but in this case, $1000 is not outrageous considering that particular coin, its mintage, its grade and it demand.......I would be willing to bet it goes up! And so far, most of my numismatic bets have paid off in time. Cheers!

RossL | 03-08-2007 09:26 PM
Re: Should I buy this coin? Quote:
Originally Posted by mjk1971 (Post 534390) PR70 coins are bling bling for rich folk. :bear_rolleyes:
You have a point there. :bear_w00t: that is part of the problem. The marketing of MS70 and PF70 is what has created a lot of the demand and high prices. The "first strike" series is another facet of this marketing. There are lawsuits about the "first strike" labels. The grading companies and the mint have admitted that there is nothing special about the coins minted in January that carry the "first strike" label. If you took a MS69 "first strike" out of the holder and placed it next to a "normal" MS69, nobody could tell the difference. That is proven and factual. My opinion is... that if you took a MS70 out of it's holder, 99.9% of the population couldn't tell the difference between it and the first two. :banana:

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