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Mined over Matter | 01-15-2007 05:06 PM
A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo So... not having any physical to go along with my paper, I was thinking about getting into the game. I was looking recently at a 2006 $50 Gold Buffalo, NGC-rated as MS69, selling for $665, or about $40 over this weekend's spot of around $625. On a scale of 1-10... where does this price lie? Is it an amazing price? Okay? Too much? Some insight here would be helpful as I think seriously about buying a coin or two. Thanks

grapejelly | 01-15-2007 05:11 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo I would advise buying Kruggerands to get the most gold for the least amount of money. After that, consider a 24kt gold coin such as Mapleleafs or Philharmonics. I would avoid ultra high premium coins like this one. There is no numismatic value to such a coin so your money is wasted. Pay no more than $15 over spot for a one ounce gold bullion coin. It's owning the gold that counts not a premium for supposed numismatic value that doesn't exist. Yet another government scam :(

naccarato | 01-15-2007 05:15 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo I have noticed prices coming down on these coins. Nice ungraded ones at the coin show I was at this weekend were going for the price you quoted so sounds good since it is graded. Don't break open the slab or so I have been told.

grapejelly | 01-15-2007 05:17 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo it's a gold bullion coin, whatever anyone says to the contrary. Were I buying it from a private party sometime in the future, I'd not want it in the slab. I'd want it out so I could verify it was real.

Master_Ho | 01-15-2007 05:20 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Quote:
Originally Posted by grapejelly (Post 475010) Were I buying it from a private party sometime in the future, I'd not want it in the slab. I'd want it out so I could verify it was real.
Were it graded by PCGS or NGC and in a slab - that IS verificaion its real! And would be verification to anyone buying it from you!

grapejelly | 01-15-2007 05:23 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 475018) Were it graded by PCGS or NGC and in a slab - that IS verificaion its real! And would be verification to anyone buying it from you!
why can't someone easily fake a slabbed coin? Make a plated counterfeit slug and slab it with phony documentation. That sounds easier than faking a gold coin that you can see, touch, examine and weigh.

Libertarian_Guard | 01-15-2007 05:24 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Go for it! Slabed 24K gradded is worth the small preimum here. BTW, I don't think Philharmonics are 24K gold, at least none of mine are.

Mined over Matter | 01-15-2007 05:27 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo cool... thanks for the feedback guys!!

The Great Ag | 01-15-2007 05:48 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Quote:
Originally Posted by grapejelly (Post 475024) why can't someone easily fake a slabbed coin? Make a plated counterfeit slug and slab it with phony documentation. That sounds easier than faking a gold coin that you can see, touch, examine and weigh.
Too much work! And it's not worth it. It's easier to take a common date coin such as a 1909 vdb LIncoln cent and add an "S" to it to make it a much more rare coin, and then sell it. To take a gold, copper or silver slug mint it yourself to make it look as exact as your skills allow, but slabs, and print a label (remember you need 3D laser printing on PCGS and NGC nowadays) just to sell it. Make a couterfeit instead and sell it. Much easier. The great Ag

naccarato | 01-15-2007 05:52 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Yes Philharmonics are 24k Gold Libertarian-Guard.

AgAuGal | 01-15-2007 05:53 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo If you have no gold at all I would suggest Krugs or Maples as your first purchases. The Buffalo would be nice to have a couple later when you have already built a base. I would not consider it a good first gold purchase, you can get more for your fiat going for the gold w/ the least premium. However, if you have no silver either, I would consider getting silver first then gold. Put some fiat into Ag/Au once a month or paycheck if you can swing it until you have built a base of metals you are comfortable with. Good luck, you are about to take the reality pill hope you are ready for the matrix.

Master_Ho | 01-15-2007 06:11 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Quote:
Originally Posted by grapejelly (Post 475024) why can't someone easily fake a slabbed coin? Make a plated counterfeit slug and slab it with phony documentation. That sounds easier than faking a gold coin that you can see, touch, examine and weigh.
To take what The Great AG said a step further - I am not saying it can not be done - but, so far as we know, it never has.........first, its a very expensive process requiring special plastic capsulte and special equiptment to perform the process. Then, as he pointed out, it requires special 3D labels and the ability to counterfit those too - and then to put it al together. But lets suppose, for just a moment, that that was all done - which is HIGHLY imporbable - there is one additional thing.........I don't know about NGC but I know with PCGS, I can go to their website, type in the coin's number, and it will tell me exactly what coin was graded for that number. if the number is off or just not there - I KNOW something is wrong! So its not hard to tell if a slabbed coin is what its suppose to be - and FAR too much bother and expense to try to counterfit.......at least, so far!

KASHMAN02 | 01-15-2007 06:15 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Quote:
Originally Posted by Mined over Matter (Post 474987) So... not having any physical to go along with my paper, I was thinking about getting into the game. I was looking recently at a 2006 $50 Gold Buffalo, NGC-rated as MS69, selling for $665, or about $40 over this weekend's spot of around $625. On a scale of 1-10... where does this price lie? Is it an amazing price? Okay? Too much? Some insight here would be helpful as I think seriously about buying a coin or two. Thanks
It is a good price for the graded coin, just for info the pcgs one at ms69 is given a book value of 950

Master_Ho | 01-15-2007 06:35 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Quote:
Originally Posted by KASHMAN02 (Post 475083) It is a good price for the graded coin, just for info the pcgs one at ms69 is given a book value of 950
PCGS prices are retail and tend to be a bit higher than you can usually get things for.......and a lot more than most Ebay items go for.........however, that coin ungraded is going for $658 on APMEX (and thats before shipping and handling) and thats without the $30 grading fee - so I would say its a good price!

grapejelly | 01-15-2007 06:36 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 475079) To take what The Great AG said a step further - I am not saying it can not be done - but, so far as we know, it never has.........first, its a very expensive process requiring special plastic capsulte and special equiptment to perform the process. Then, as he pointed out, it requires special 3D labels and the ability to counterfit those too - and then to put it al together. But lets suppose, for just a moment, that that was all done - which is HIGHLY imporbable - there is one additional thing.........I don't know about NGC but I know with PCGS, I can go to their website, type in the coin's number, and it will tell me exactly what coin was graded for that number. if the number is off or just not there - I KNOW something is wrong! So its not hard to tell if a slabbed coin is what its suppose to be - and FAR too much bother and expense to try to counterfit.......at least, so far!
How do you know that the coin they say they graded is the same as the one in the plastic? Buffaloes are buffaloes... I would rather buy a buff based upon bullion content and be able to see and feel the coin. If someone was going to counterfeit coins it would be best to start with the high value homogeneous ubiquitous buffalo, wouldn't it?

Master_Ho | 01-15-2007 06:53 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Quote:
Originally Posted by grapejelly (Post 475104) How do you know that the coin they say they graded is the same as the one in the plastic? Buffaloes are buffaloes... I would rather buy a buff based upon bullion content and be able to see and feel the coin. If someone was going to counterfeit coins it would be best to start with the high value homogeneous ubiquitous buffalo, wouldn't it?
Because its hard as hell to open the darn capsule.......especially without damaging the coin..........then someone would have to do so and then seal it again.......and the thing comes with a PCGS number and special 3D-holographic label on the back.........its just too much work and expense....... I have buffalos that are ungraded.....I also have a few business strikes in MS 70 and Proofs in MS 69.........The ungraded I can hold - the graded I only look at thru the plastic capsule - and thats fine because, not only does it give a grade, and a future buyer the assurance of what they are getting - it protects the coin. These are 24 kt coins, not 22 kt like the other US coins - you can damage them meerly by mishandling or squeezing too hard, even the mylar covers have damaged some.........or, in the case of my wife, glaring at them! :wink: The capsule gives it protection so you know the MS 69 or 70 they sealed, is in the same condition years from now when you go to sell. And sure, they WOULD start with counterfiting highgrade expensive coins - like the Pandas, which they have, tho in silver. You hear a lot more about fake silver coins than gold - I suspect cause its harder to fake gold coins (but I don't know, I am too busy to be faking coins - but if I ever get a couple of weeks off - watch out world! :D ) But, as The Great Ag and I have been saying, its much easier and cheaper to fake a ungraded coin.....be it gold, silver or other, and it happens every day of the week.........so far, we've never heard of a faked PCGS or NGC graded coin....... Tho as counterfiters get more and more professional - and have more and more money to work with - one day it MIGHT happen........but even then, they can't get their fake coins listed on PCGS's computerized list of graded coins. MUCH easier to cover a piece of lead with sterling silver or gold plating - there are too many people who have no idea what they are doing, and rip them off!

The Great Ag | 01-16-2007 10:43 AM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Quote:
Originally Posted by grapejelly (Post 475104) How do you know that the coin they say they graded is the same as the one in the plastic? Buffaloes are buffaloes... I would rather buy a buff based upon bullion content and be able to see and feel the coin. If someone was going to counterfeit coins it would be best to start with the high value homogeneous ubiquitous buffalo, wouldn't it?
I have to concur entirely with Master Ho's comments. Jelly, don't worry about counterfeit grading. It's not going to happen. As I and Master Ho have pointed out, IT'S TOO MUCH WORK to counterfeit grading. It much easier and more profitable (that's the key) to take a common date coin and by adding a mint mark or altering the year create a much rarer coin. It's also easier to sell that way. Instead put your focus on detecting counterfeit coins. :afraid: The Great Ag

Master_Ho | 01-16-2007 11:32 AM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 475805) Jelly, don't worry about counterfeit grading. It's not going to happen. As I and Master Ho have pointed out, IT'S TOO MUCH WORK to counterfeit grading. It much easier and more profitable (that's the key) to take a common date coin and by adding a mint mark or altering the year create a much rarer coin. It's also easier to sell that way. Instead put your focus on detecting counterfeit coins. :afraid: The Great Ag
OR - even better - so you don't have to worry and you can sleep nights - just snd us all your counterfeit graded coins! :D

The Great Ag | 01-16-2007 12:01 PM
Re: A question of Price - $50 Gold Buffalo Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 475856) OR - even better - so you don't have to worry and you can sleep nights - just snd us all your counterfeit graded coins! :D
Or just bury them in your back yard. One of our underground agents will collect. :clap2: TheGreat Ag

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