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- - Is this Morgan a fake?? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=324730)

Metalophile | 11-22-2008 09:25 PM
Is this Morgan a fake?? 2 Attachment(s) I purchased this Morgan from a reputable online dealer. It was advertised as cull grade, but when I got it I thought it was XF. I bought it to carry around as a pocket piece, and I have carried it for a few months. It's also been lightly cleaned with baking soda and water, although not recently. I first became suspicious of it when I placed it next to an Ike dollar. The Ike dollar has a slightly larger diameter. This Morgan has the correct weight at 26.7 g. I took a cheap, plastic micrometer to it, and it measured 37.7 mm. The Ike was right on at 38.1 mm (the correct diameter for a dollar). Is my Morgan a fake?? Or did someone file down the edges a little, or did the New Orleans Mint make a slightly off-spec dollar back in 1883? I have a few other Morgans to compare it with, but they're currently in a safe place and would take a while to get to. 1883 O Morgan obv.jpg 1883 O Morgan rev.jpg

mick silver | 11-22-2008 09:29 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? it look real to me , i have one just like it

Gcubed | 11-22-2008 09:35 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Is the reeded edge abnormally worn?

Hugo Chavez | 11-22-2008 09:38 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? The morgan is heavily faked in China. Step one: is it silver? I'd start with a magnet.

Metalophile | 11-22-2008 10:02 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? 1 Attachment(s) Not magnetic. I think the reeded edge looks pretty normal. I know the surface is silver, I wrapped a rubber band around it for a day, and it tarnished underneath. 1883 O Morgan edge cropped.jpg

Bullionaire | 11-22-2008 10:24 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? IT IS REAL.....chemical damaged surface....value 12.00 on a good day. Good grief.....we are not talking about a thousand dollar coin...GO GREEN...conserve cyberspace...

Weatherman | 11-22-2008 10:25 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalophile (Post 1430481) I first became suspicious of it when I placed it next to an Ike dollar. The Ike dollar has a slightly larger diameter. This Morgan has the correct weight at 26.7 g. I took a cheap, plastic micrometer to it, and it measured 37.7 mm. The Ike was right on at 38.1 mm (the correct diameter for a dollar). Is my Morgan a fake??
Check the thickness with your micrometer, or just by comparing to a known good coin. Since the weight is the same, and the diameter is the same or maybe a little smaller, then if the thickness is also the same, you can be sure that the coin is made of silver (or a combination with lead). Base metals that counterfeits are usually made from have significantly lower density, so a base metal counterfeit coin with the correct diameter would need to be much thicker to have the same weight.

Drumblebum | 11-22-2008 10:30 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? I hate Morgan dollars. I stopped buying them when I realized how many were faked, and how good the fakes are... I suspect I have at least one fake, but I can't bring myself to properly check them all to find out for sure. :banghead:

highroller4321 | 11-23-2008 12:10 AM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? What is the proper weight and dimension suppose to be? Weight 26.73g Diameter 38.1mm Are those dimensions correct? How much weight lose is exceptable becuase of wear? How thick should they be? Thanks

Master_Ho | 11-23-2008 12:16 AM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Diameter: 38.1 millimeters<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> Metal Content: Silver - 90% Copper - 10%<o:p></o:p> Morgan dollar has 0.77344 troy ozs.<o:p></o:p> Weight: 26.73 grams<o:p></o:p> Edge: Reeded<o:p></o:p>

highroller4321 | 11-23-2008 12:18 AM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 1430644) Diameter: 38.1 millimeters<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p> Metal Content: Silver - 90% Copper - 10%<o:p></o:p> Morgan dollar has 0.77344 troy ozs.<o:p></o:p> Weight: 26.73 grams<o:p></o:p> Edge: Reeded<o:p></o:p>
How much is a reasonable amount to take off for wear?

Master_Ho | 11-23-2008 12:27 AM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by highroller4321 (Post 1430649) How much is a reasonable amount to take off for wear?
I really have no idea - but I wouldn't think much.........

mispillion | 11-23-2008 12:51 AM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? friend came back from the p.i. about a year ago. showed me three morgans he bought there at a very good price. all fake. if you have a scale, put a real one across from the questionable one.

gizmo | 11-23-2008 12:58 AM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? THE IKE dollar is the junk peice

Weatherman | 11-23-2008 01:48 AM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? I searched my bookmarks for the thickness, and had a difficult time finding it. This link tells me it should be 3.1 mm thick. I also found this link about counterfeit Morgan dollar coins. Finally, I found a forum where coin grading and counterfeits are discussed. You could submit your photos and ask questions there. Good luck!

clarkth | 11-23-2008 01:19 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 1430655) I really have no idea - but I wouldn't think much.........
I think you can use 1$ face pre64 halves, quarters, dimes as a reference. The silver content is listed as .723 (or something like that) but most are sold as .715 due to wear.

Bullionaire | 11-23-2008 01:32 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? I will happily buy the coin from you for 12.00 just to end this thread.

mshen11 | 11-23-2008 01:48 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? for learning sake... how can you tell it has been cleaned?

Metalophile | 11-23-2008 02:02 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullionaire (Post 1431124) I will happily buy the coin from you for 12.00 just to end this thread.
I don't know what your beef is. Some folks might be interested in some of the things to look for when evaluating Morgans. If you're not interested, then just ignore this thread. I think the Morgan is probably genuine. The diameter is the only thing that is out of spec. Not for sale. This is the piece I carry with me to explain the ills of our fiat system to my friends.

Bullionaire | 11-23-2008 03:20 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Sorry to intrude....no beef....just unbelievable to me the absolute lack of fundamental coin knowledge out there, explains the success of those cable T.V. sellers. Educate away....

latemetal | 11-23-2008 07:59 PM
First mistake, Ike dollar "I first became suspicious of it when I placed it next to an Ike dollar." As far as I know, Ikes were never 90% silver dollars. I've a couple of 40% Ikes and I only bought them for show.:36_3_12: Compare Peace and Morgan dollars only.

highroller4321 | 11-23-2008 08:18 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullionaire (Post 1431224) Sorry to intrude....no beef....just unbelievable to me the absolute lack of fundamental coin knowledge out there, explains the success of those cable T.V. sellers. Educate away....
I dont see you sharing any of your knowledge with us, so dont critize other whan you also havent brought anything to the table!!!!!! This is a learning community so do not critize people for wanting to learn and asking questions as for this is what this site is for!

highroller4321 | 11-23-2008 08:22 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by highroller4321 (Post 1430649) How much is a reasonable amount to take off for wear?
I went to a coin show today and talked to a numismatist who studies fake coins. He said that when looking to see at a fake morgan most of the times the diamter is right on but the weight is way off. He said that anything under 26 grams is mostly likely a fake, but most of the fakes weight in the 22-24gram range. He said that when your looking at rare dates you have to know the things that are always there...for instance on a 1889CC morgan dollar there is always 3 little lines (look like small scratches) on the bottom right hand side of the R in liberty. He said there was only 1 set of dies used to make that coin so those lines will ALWAYS be there if it is a real coin.

Bullionaire | 11-23-2008 08:33 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by highroller4321 (Post 1431541) I dont see you sharing any of your knowledge with us, so dont critize other whan you also havent brought anything to the table!!!!!! This is a learning community so do not critize people for wanting to learn and asking questions as for this is what this site is for!
Sorry Lowroller hard to share knowledge with a little kid and his two-bit coin that he has no clue about....

Drumblebum | 11-23-2008 09:07 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullionaire (Post 1431566) Sorry Lowroller hard to share knowledge with a little kid and his two-bit coin that he has no clue about....
I'm gonna go ahead and back up highroller on this one... unless you have something positive to contribute on the subject, you may want to kindly STFU. Dude wanted to know about his Morgan. Please allow him a fair shot at getting the info he needs. :36_1_30:

Master_Ho | 11-24-2008 01:20 AM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by skytrooper (Post 1431626) Better yet, why don't you bugger off and piss on someone elses thread. The guy asked a simple question about a coin, if that annoys you take a hike.
^5.....he comment was rude, uncalled for and, were I a mod, I would have certainly told him so........ We all started at the same place - at one time or another - Bullionaire obviously came into this world - all-knowing.......and all-rude and all arrogant......... If we can not help each other learn - whats the point of this forum?????

highroller4321 | 11-24-2008 07:40 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? [QUOTE=Master_Ho;1431978 If we can not help each other learn - whats the point of this forum?????[/QUOTE] Exactly! Now lets get back on the subject on fake morgans:23_30_104: At the coin show I talked to 2 dealers that I know pretty well and they told me that theres a rumor that China is sending some really "nice" fakes over here to sell. He said he thought that they figured out the weight a little better and how to make them look nicer:fan:

GreenSpirit | 11-24-2008 07:43 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? I'm guessing most of the Chinese fakes are better dates so you're probably safe buying normal-feeling-and-looking Morgans you can buy at bullion prices, but uncertified numismatic Morgans I'd avoid.

SLV>GLD | 11-24-2008 07:56 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalophile (Post 1431154) The diameter is the only thing that is out of spec. Not for sale. This is the piece I carry with me to explain the ills of our fiat system to my friends.
If it turns out to be fake you can use it to illustrate Gersham's Law as well.

The Great Ag | 11-24-2008 08:41 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? I have been weighing my older Morgans to see. Pretty much, all the worn Morgans weigh around 26.4 or 26.5 grams. It is possible that my scale is slightly off. It calibrates with 500 grams, as opposed to 100g like my old scale. I had to use a combination of a 100g weight, nickels and cents to make up the difference. Anyway with my old scale I weighed a few Peace dollars in various states of wear. A MS60 or better weighed 26.8g, XF 26.7 and G8 26.5. As can be seen, a silver dollar contained the proper amount of silver until it was well worn, at which point it could be turned in for a silver dollar with the proper amount of silver. Sorry no pics, as photobucket is not giving me the URLs to post, for some reason. I would say your Morgan is real, and I would not worry about it. The Great Ag.

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- - Is this Morgan a fake?? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=324730)

Twisted Avatar | 11-24-2008 09:09 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Just take the subject peice and real one to coin shope and let them test it for you........if you have a good relationship with most will do it as courtesy. Simple. T

Metalophile | 11-24-2008 10:08 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullionaire (Post 1431566) Sorry Lowroller hard to share knowledge with a little kid and his two-bit coin that he has no clue about....
Well, at least I know that a Morgan is eight bits and not two.

highroller4321 | 11-24-2008 10:56 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenSpirit (Post 1433412) I'm guessing most of the Chinese fakes are better dates so you're probably safe buying normal-feeling-and-looking Morgans you can buy at bullion prices, but uncertified numismatic Morgans I'd avoid.
You have to be carefull with that also becuase they are starting to fake slabs too. Just look at the lettering carefully on the slab and you will be able to tell as for im told is really easy to notice a fake slab

highroller4321 | 11-24-2008 10:57 PM
Re: Is this Morgan a fake?? Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 1433488) I have been weighing my older Morgans to see. Pretty much, all the worn Morgans weigh around 26.4 or 26.5 grams. It is possible that my scale is slightly off. It calibrates with 500 grams, as opposed to 100g like my old scale. I had to use a combination of a 100g weight, nickels and cents to make up the difference. Anyway with my old scale I weighed a few Peace dollars in various states of wear. A MS60 or better weighed 26.8g, XF 26.7 and G8 26.5. As can be seen, a silver dollar contained the proper amount of silver until it was well worn, at which point it could be turned in for a silver dollar with the proper amount of silver. Sorry no pics, as photobucket is not giving me the URLs to post, for some reason. I would say your Morgan is real, and I would not worry about it. The Great Ag.
Thanks for the information!!! Very helpfull

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