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- - 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=279406)

aybesee123 | 07-02-2008 06:39 PM
10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) 2 Attachment(s) I noticed the edge was shaved on a recent purchase of this 10 oz. Has anyone ran across bars with shaved edges? Is this just a way to even weight due to surpluss metal after casting?

platinumdude | 07-02-2008 06:46 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Do you have a scale to see if it weighs 10 troy ounces?

107.8682 | 07-02-2008 06:48 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) I've never seen Engelhard or JM (or any other) bars with that. After-production damage?

Hi Ho SILVER | 07-02-2008 06:54 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) looks like the old skim job..... I bet it doesn't weigh... Quote:
Originally Posted by aybesee123 (Post 1173817) I noticed the edge was shaved on a recent purchase of this 10 oz. Has anyone ran across bars with shaved edges? Is this just a way to even weight due to surpluss metal after casting?

MAGNUM P.M. | 07-02-2008 07:13 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) The actual weight will tell the tale. Older Engelhard products are often pretty rough. I once saw a 50 ounce bar that looked as if a grinder had been taken to its face to remove excess weight before it was stamped with its usual markings. It left marks not unlike those in your picture. Your bars should weigh 311 grams for each 10 troy ounce bar.

CyberGold | 07-02-2008 07:20 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) I have seen them like that and they were of correct weight. I think I still have a couple. I routinly weigh my metals and don't recall being alarmed about it so weigh it and forget it.

twenty4karat | 07-02-2008 07:36 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Go ahead and weigh them for your peace of mind. If you don't have a scale, take them to your dealer and ask him to weigh it in front of you (troy ounces only). But, like other's here I've seen plenty of these. Maranatha, :smile:

southfork | 07-02-2008 07:38 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Quote:
Originally Posted by aybesee123 (Post 1173817) I noticed the edge was shaved on a recent purchase of this 10 oz. Has anyone ran across bars with shaved edges? Is this just a way to even weight due to surpluss metal after casting?
One looks fine, the other cant say, the old pour loaf bars are like that, the bottom is a little funky but I say your fine, weigh the bar if you like .

Twisted Avatar | 07-02-2008 09:02 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Those are great pictures to get a education on..... thanks for posting. T

Mone | 07-02-2008 09:20 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) I'd agree that those bars can sometimes be pretty rough. What is it- 31 grams per troy? I'd weigh it in grams. Assuming I'm right with the 31 number then your bar should be 310 grams. Weighing in grams gets you away from the troy/avoirdupois b*llsh*t. If it's all there- it's all there. If not sell it. ;) Edit: 10 troy is 311.034 grams. http://www.metric-conversions.org/we...s-to-grams.htm

SilverKestrel | 07-02-2008 09:53 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) I've got several of those that look just like the top one - none have the shaved edge like your bottom one. We're all anxiously awaiting your weights. Let us know.

Sparky | 07-03-2008 12:31 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) I think it looks like a manufacturing machine error. Just eyeballing it, if it's light it looks like only 1/10 ounce or so. I'll guess your weight comes in at 308 grams. (Geez, maybe this is fodder for yet another guessing poll...)

Mone | 07-03-2008 08:27 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky (Post 1174271) I think it looks like a manufacturing machine error. Just eyeballing it, if it's light it looks like only 1/10 ounce or so. I'll guess your weight comes in at 308 grams. (Geez, maybe this is fodder for yet another guessing poll...)
Guesses thus far: Sparky: 308 grams. Mone: 310 grams.

Twisted Avatar | 07-03-2008 08:32 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) I will take 309.5:smile: T

Gcubed | 07-03-2008 08:36 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) I've seen many of those. Have a few now. I'll bet it comes in at 311 grams.

Mined Games | 07-03-2008 09:22 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcubed (Post 1174585) I've seen many of those. Have a few now. I'll bet it comes in at 311 grams.
My thoughts, exactly.

MAGNUM P.M. | 07-03-2008 11:07 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) I'll take 312 grams to mess with all your heads!

goldminer | 07-03-2008 11:54 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) They look cast. Maybe the mold was dirty or had something on one side that the cooling silver didn't like?

Hi Ho SILVER | 07-03-2008 12:00 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) 309 if you don't mind...Good Luck!

teacher | 07-03-2008 12:20 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Your bets reminded me of this scene with Kirk turning these aliens� inclination to wager into a means of escape! YouTube - Star Trek Moments: Kirk Makes a Wager
YouTube - Star Trek Moments: Kirk Makes a Wager

AuNuggets | 07-03-2008 12:58 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) I was never convinced that those so-called "cast" 10 ounce Engelhards are/were actually cast. They look more like they were "punched" from thick sheets of silver from the characteristics of the edges. Looks like a huge version of punched slugs. And the bottom of those types are always too smooth, more of an extruded look than a casting. Never seen one with cooling pits or depressions either.

Ag_man | 07-03-2008 10:55 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Those are definitely grind marks on one of the bars, no doubt. Whether the grinding was done to get an overweight bar down to weight, or skimming off a 10 ouncer, only an accurate scale will tell. A good question is; what is the expected weight tolerance on cast and extruded bars? +/- 0.01 ounce, perhaps?

dimitri | 07-04-2008 01:25 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) I have four different types of Engelhard 10oz bars - they advanced the manufacturing process as the years went by. The bars pictured are apparently of the 'die struck' variety. They are cut a bit into the metal (leaving the smooth surfaces near the top) and the rest breaks off from the force (leaving the rough bottom part). I have several of this variety but they all look like the uniform bar in the pic. Obviously weighing the bar is the only way to gain closure on this thread.

917601 | 07-04-2008 09:04 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Those Engelhard breadbox bars are typical-the real thing-made during the 60's and 70's. Most here were not born or just kids then, and what you expect is perfect extruded or stamped bars appealing to "modern day eyes".When given a chance to choose between modern manufactured bars or 60s 70s bars-choose the breadbox.What you have there brings a premium to old bar collectors. Do not get rid of them and check their serial numbers. Notice-they DO have serial numbers on them-UNLIKE most modern day 10 oz bars. They generally have a rich patina that only 50 years can impart-DO NOT clean them! Good find, do not let the "youngsters" and inexperienced make you fret.

107.8682 | 07-04-2008 09:22 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGNUM P.M. (Post 1173867) The actual weight will tell the tale. Older Engelhard products are often pretty rough. I once saw a 50 ounce bar that looked as if a grinder had been taken to its face to remove excess weight before it was stamped with its usual markings. It left marks not unlike those in your picture. Your bars should weigh 311 grams for each 10 troy ounce bar.
311.0347348 grams. :emotions16:

Twisted Avatar | 07-04-2008 09:32 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Quote:
Originally Posted by teacher (Post 1174946) Your bets reminded me of this scene with Kirk turning these aliens� inclination to wager into a means of escape! YouTube - Star Trek Moments: Kirk Makes a Wager
That was funny....... how did that one end?? T

Bullionaire | 07-04-2008 05:42 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Many of the very old engelhard silver bars say .999 but not silver or ag. I know of a mid-south full time dealer who purchased a pile of these than had been first copper, than gold plated...he was too stupid to cut into one and was hoodwinked into buying them as gold......true story..

teacher | 07-04-2008 08:39 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1176319) That was funny....... how did that one end?? T
Kirk kills the bad guys and gets the alien, err, I mean the girl! While Kirk's crew watches on their big screen back on the bridge (wireless feed from the BRAINS), Kirk toasts two thralls and kinks a third, finally taking on his newest conquest, I mean Shahna, I mean the women-warrior-alien. In end, Kirk gets a last kiss and then the Enterprise sails away from the mess he created as his winning bet brings on upheaval in Thrall society.

Worldmariner | 07-04-2008 08:44 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Quote:
Originally Posted by aybesee123 (Post 1173817) I noticed the edge was shaved on a recent purchase of this 10 oz. Has anyone ran across bars with shaved edges? Is this just a way to even weight due to surpluss metal after casting?
Weigh them against a stack of 10 one ouncers or such. Looks like a skim job to me. Lesson learned.

WAoG | 07-05-2008 12:35 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullionaire (Post 1176937) Many of the very old engelhard silver bars say .999 but not silver or ag. I know of a mid-south full time dealer who purchased a pile of these than had been first copper, than gold plated...he was too stupid to cut into one and was hoodwinked into buying them as gold......true story..
Now you have me wanting to go out and dig up the stashes to look it all over. Thanks a lot:-)

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Gold & Silver Forum - 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC)

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- Gold - Silver - Coins - Numismatics (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
- - 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=279406)

ozcopper | 07-06-2008 07:26 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Hey, aybesee123 how about an update on their weight.. I'd love to know!

gangsta99 | 07-08-2008 04:05 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) BUMP. I am wondering about the OP now. Who creates a thread like this and doesn't come back to answer questions? I see he has posted in other threads a day ago so he didn't go MIA. Any word on this? Also curious why the dates on those pics are from 2003, are these bars actually in your possession?

aybesee123 | 07-09-2008 07:49 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Quote:
Originally Posted by gangsta99 (Post 1182266) BUMP. I am wondering about the OP now. Who creates a thread like this and doesn't come back to answer questions? I see he has posted in other threads a day ago so he didn't go MIA. Any word on this? Also curious why the dates on those pics are from 2003, are these bars actually in your possession?
I am embarrassed to admit I do not have a scale. I'll pick one up soon and post back. I will give a 24 hour heads up for final guesses. The date on the camera is off as your obviously noticed. I will take a photo of the bar on the scale with weight and post.

argentos | 07-09-2008 10:07 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Quote:
Originally Posted by aybesee123 (Post 1183192) I am embarrassed to admit I do not have a scale. I'll pick one up soon and post back. I will give a 24 hour heads up for final guesses. The date on the camera is off as your obviously noticed. I will take a photo of the bar on the scale with weight and post.
The trouble with many scales is that unless you spend a fortune and get calibrated lab ones, they are not brilliantly accurate. So please compare the suspect bar with a known 10oz bar before you apply a smug smile (or start cursing)! :wink:

Metalophile | 07-09-2008 10:29 AM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Quote:
Originally Posted by argentos (Post 1183358) The trouble with many scales is that unless you spend a fortune and get calibrated lab ones, they are not brilliantly accurate. So please compare the suspect bar with a known 10oz bar before you apply a smug smile (or start cursing)! :wink:
US nickels (AU-BU) are good for a quick check of calibration. Each one should be very near 5.00 grams. Ten nickels should be 50.0 grams, etc.

gangsta99 | 07-09-2008 12:45 PM
Re: 10oz Engelhard Bar / Shaved Edge? (PIC) Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalophile (Post 1183384) US nickels (AU-BU) are good for a quick check of calibration. Each one should be very near 5.00 grams. Ten nickels should be 50.0 grams, etc.
Yeah this is a good way to get a decent idea on if the scale is off or not. We used to use this method all the time back in the day with little hand scales or digis to measures bags of um silver coins.. .. Yeah silver coins... :yes:

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