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- - Fake Morgan Dollars (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=386186)

Silverity | 06-25-2009 05:24 PM
Fake Morgan Dollars 1 Attachment(s) I am closing in on completing my Morgan Dollar collection but I know a handful of coins which will be out of reach possibly for life due to their very high cost (the 1893-S, 1894-P and 1895). So I bought replicas from China just as place holders. Dang, they are getting good at faking these coins (see picture of one I purchased). A naked eye examination did not prove infallible, so I resorted to buying digital scales to weigh them. As it happened the fakes were several grams lighter while the real morgans were 26.7g plus or minus a gram (unless well worn). I checked my collection and - phew - no fakes in terms of weight. As it happens the Chinese do sell 90% silver fakes so even there the weight test may not be infallible! Any got a good fake test? PS When I got the coin the word "REPLICA" stamped on the ebay photo was NOT on the coin I got!

Twisted Avatar | 06-25-2009 05:32 PM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars The Give away is the rim...... the strike is deep where it raises the edge. But I save myself the trouble and only buy from people I know. T

CoinHunter53562 | 06-25-2009 05:44 PM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars Weight can be one way to check, but not always a 100% sign. I found out I sold a Trade Dollar where the weight was within reason for circulation, but turned out to be a struck copy that fooled many coin experts. Specific gravity is another test. Personally though, if buying an expensive coin I would either only buy from a dealer I trust 100% or buy one that is slabbed.

gopher29 | 06-25-2009 05:46 PM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars You should report them to Ebay for selling unmarked copies.

madfranks | 06-25-2009 05:54 PM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars Get a loupe and, with some good lighting, examine all the letters & numbers of the coins as close as you can. Chinese fakes are generally cast, not struck with dies, so look for tiny evidence of bubbling in the letters. Any little raised dots will be signs of casting, and hence, counterfeits. Also, check out the site below for more info on fakes: http://www.silver-coins.org/counterfeit_dollars.html

Twisted Avatar | 06-25-2009 05:57 PM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars Quote:
Originally Posted by gopher29 (Post 1786434) You should report them to Ebay for selling unmarked copies.
Ebay is too busy collecting fees to be worried about a littel theft

CQC McDuck | 06-26-2009 01:31 AM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars Great thread. I just checked some Morgans that I purchased on ebay last year and noticed that one of them, an 1883, appears to be a counterfeit. Per the OP, the posted link, and my own coins, the 'flat' stars, larger font, and soft features are apparent when compared to the real coins. What sucks though is the guy I bought them from is no longer on ebay, and I bought A LOT of 90% from him. Here's to hoping that a large chunk of my stash isn't counterfeit. :/ Edit: I just found two 'suspect' 2006 ASEs. Niiiiice. :I

Pragmatist | 06-26-2009 01:57 AM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars I have heard for some time, that the Chinese are counterfitting slabs as well. Key date Morgans are no laughing matter. Such a coin would have to go through a grading service, for verification, directly to me. ~Prag

Silverity | 06-26-2009 04:16 PM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1786409) The Give away is the rim...... the strike is deep where it raises the edge. But I save myself the trouble and only buy from people I know. T
That appears to be the bottom line, go with verified dealers. When I start to buy the more expensive coins, I want to reduce the margin of error.

AD9898 | 06-28-2009 08:33 AM
Can you demagnetize Molybdenum? Can anyone on here tell me how to tell if my coins are fakes? Im talking about not .999 fine silver. I had someone who claims to know about the ring test tell me my coins are fakes. I cant tell the difference in the ring. So I cut one and it looks like Silver all the way through. He said the Chinese are using Molybdenum and covering with real silver. Molybdenum is almost the same weight as silver, but I thought it was magnetic. My coins I recently bought from China have no magnetizum at all but they were very cheap compared to what I have been paying in the past. So is there anyway to tell if coins from China are real or fake? Can you demagnetize Molybdenum?

CoinHunter53562 | 06-28-2009 09:30 AM
Re: Can you demagnetize Molybdenum? Quote:
Originally Posted by AD9898 (Post 1790446) Can anyone on here tell me how to tell if my coins are fakes? Im talking about not .999 fine silver. I had someone who claims to know about the ring test tell me my coins are fakes. I cant tell the difference in the ring. So I cut on and it looks like Silver all the way through. He said the Chinese are using Molybdenum and covering with real silver. Molybdenum is almost the same weight as silver, but I thought it was magnetic. My coins I recently bought from China have no magnetizum at all but they were very cheap compared to what I have been paying in the past. So is there anyway to tell if coins from China are real or fake? Can you demagnetize Molybdenum?
Sorry I cant answer your question on how to help you, other than to suggest taking it to a local coin dealer. And I might suggest, dont buy coins from China. It's well known that fakes are coming out of there hand over fist.

AD9898 | 06-28-2009 10:53 AM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars Thanks but how do you know that your coins didnt originate from China no matter where you buy them, local dealer included. Can anyone on here answer this very important question. Can you demagnetize Molybdenum? If the answer is no then I am over the moon, if it is possible I could have wasted a lot of money.............

goldfingerer | 06-28-2009 11:54 AM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars When it comes to coins, I avoid anything from China. That includes chinese coins, ebay sellers, dealers, anything at all. China is going to singlehandedly ruin the coin market by flooding it with fakes that cannot be found out, except by experts with loads of specialized equipment. It's not enough that steal everyones ideas and copy them, but they also counterfeit money left and right and nobody has the balls to make them stop. Probably the only thing you can do,when it comes to expensive coins, is buy slabbed from pcgs or ngc.

AD9898 | 06-28-2009 05:30 PM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars Thats all very well if you can tell it originated in China but how can you know? Some of these Morgan dollars (even certified ones) have been sold on several times. I have an answer to my question about Molybdenum, but its not 100% reliable. He said that Molybdenum can be demagnetized at high temperatures. It looks almost the same as silver but is a little more white and a very small amount lighter in wieght. He said the Chinese are mixing a very small portion of lead into it to make it exactly the same color and weight as .999 pure silver. Then they coat it with real silver so that it can with stand the chemical tests on the outside. If you hacksaw it in half its not noticeable. He even said dentists are buying it thinking its silver! Imagine some poor victim thinking they are buying a silver tooth for health reasons when actually it contains lead!

Ag_man | 06-28-2009 06:26 PM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars Moly is not magnetic, it does not exhibit any substantial ferromagnetic or paramagnetic properties. I'm a bit surprised that it can be formed in a coining die, as it is a very hard metal.

Irons | 06-29-2009 12:51 AM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars Quote:
Originally Posted by AD9898 (Post 1790995) Thats all very well if you can tell it originated in China but how can you know? Some of these Morgan dollars (even certified ones) have been sold on several times. I have an answer to my question about Molybdenum, but its not 100% reliable. He said that Molybdenum can be demagnetized at high temperatures. It looks almost the same as silver but is a little more white and a very small amount lighter in wieght. He said the Chinese are mixing a very small portion of lead into it to make it exactly the same color and weight as .999 pure silver. Then they coat it with real silver so that it can with stand the chemical tests on the outside. If you hacksaw it in half its not noticeable. He even said dentists are buying it thinking its silver! Imagine some poor victim thinking they are buying a silver tooth for health reasons when actually it contains lead!
If you bought coins from china thinking they might be real you have done zero homework :signs14:

AD9898 | 06-29-2009 06:32 AM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars Quote:
Originally Posted by Irons (Post 1791545) If you bought coins from china thinking they might be real you have done zero homework :signs14:
The point I am making is that you dont know if the Eagles or whatever you are buying from your local dealer did in fact originate in China. Even if it is .999 pure silver its still not a genuine Eagle. They can turn 1 oz silver Ingot into an exact copy of an 1 oz Eagle and thats how they make their mark up. They sell them cheap in large quantities and they sell them on, and on. End up in a registered dealer who cant tell the difference.

shortstack | 06-29-2009 07:03 AM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars Quote:
Originally Posted by goldfingerer (Post 1790630) When it comes to coins, I avoid anything from China. That includes chinese coins, ebay sellers, dealers, anything at all. China is going to singlehandedly ruin the coin market by flooding it with fakes that cannot be found out, except by experts with loads of specialized equipment. It's not enough that steal everyones ideas and copy them, but they also counterfeit money left and right and nobody has the balls to make them stop. Probably the only thing you can do,when it comes to expensive coins, is buy slabbed from pcgs or ngc.
Great thread. My small contribution. I purchased a fake Morgan from e-bay a year ago. I paid 2 dollars for an 1885 P Morgan Silver Dollar - it was listed as a fake, the seller shipped on time and with fantastic packaging (shipping was only 18 bucks from Hong Kong). I did not care about the price, I wanted my own fake to examine. Seems like making fake Eagles (from real silver) for only a few bucks a coin profit would not be worth it for them, This other alloy Molybdenum could really be a killer though. Why not make 5 Oz and up ingots/bars with it instead? Less items to pass on to suckers (sell) with more profit on each item. Would be far less fabrication costs on a per unit basis.

AD9898 | 06-29-2009 09:43 AM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars MolyB is everso slighly lighter in wieght than real silver, you cant notice it so much on small coins, but easier to spot on larger bars etc. But surely if you holdit in your hand you can tell the difference?

AD9898 | 07-08-2009 09:31 PM
Re: Fake Morgan Dollars Look at this guy on ebay 808davo He buys very cheap from China you could say fakes but all that matters is that the coins are 100% 999 fine silver. As long as its fine silver I dont care where or how it was made. If you buy the same coin from an offical mint you pay 2 or 3x the price. Silver is silver, and I just think of the melt value. What do you think?

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