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hoarder | 10-20-2003 06:17 PM
100 ounce bars I just purchased some 100 ounce Englehard extruded bars this afternoon and two of them do not have the distinct ring to them that silver bars have. I read something long ago that silver has distinct acoustics, and have always observed that silver bars will ring for about one full second after you hold one end with two fingers and tap them with a hammer. There is nothing visually wrong with these bars that I can see. The dealer is reputable, I think. Any comments?

IrishGold | 10-20-2003 07:11 PM
Re: 100 ounce bars Go back with the bars and ask the dealer. Ask to try other bars he has in stock. All of mine are in plastic except three Academy bars and they ring but not for a minute. Do you mean a full 60 seconds or was the term meant as "a short time"?

gpond | 10-20-2003 07:35 PM
Re: 100 ounce bars Quote:
Originally Posted by butler I just purchased some 100 ounce Englehard extruded bars this afternoon and two of them do not have the distinct ring to them that silver bars have. I read something long ago that silver has distinct acoustics, and have always observed that silver bars will ring for about one full second after you hold one end with two fingers and tap them with a hammer. There is nothing visually wrong with these bars that I can see. The dealer is reputable, I think. Any comments?
butler, I noticed the unique sound characteristics of Englehards also. If I clang two together in a certain way they will ring for an extended period, more than a few seconds, perhaps thirty or more. They resonate. Are the extruded ones the ones which appear more to be "poured" as opposed to "cut"? The one's with which I'm familiar have a very angled "cut" look to them.

hoarder | 10-20-2003 07:53 PM
Re: 100 ounce bars The bars are extruded, meaning they were squeezed out of a machine and the ends cut as opposed to poured. They have the radius-type cut on the ends. My ears are not the greatest but I have found these bars and others consistently have a ring to them when I bang 'em together. I have not noticed the sound lasting more than a second or two but I worked around noisy oilfield machinery for many years. It lasts about a full second as in "one thousand and one". I imagine the thumb and forefinger I hold them with kills much of the longevity of the sound. But these two I just bought just have a dull clunk like lead.

IrishGold | 10-20-2003 08:03 PM
Re: 100 ounce bars Sorry, misread your first question. I've got to go eat. Will deal with all this GIM stuff later.

gpond | 10-20-2003 08:10 PM
Re: 100 ounce bars Quote:
Originally Posted by butler The bars are extruded, meaning they were squeezed out of a machine and the ends cut as opposed to poured. They have the radius-type cut on the ends. My ears are not the greatest but I have found these bars and others consistently have a ring to them when I bang 'em together. I have not noticed the sound lasting more than a second or two but I worked around noisy oilfield machinery for many years. It lasts about a full second as in "one thousand and one". I imagine the thumb and forefinger I hold them with kills much of the longevity of the sound. But these two I just bought just have a dull clunk like lead.
The ones I am familiar with are extruded, then. I think mine were sitting on bubble wrap when I got them to resonate. The time to quell your concerns is now. Not later. Chances are they are perfectly genuine. But I would offer that you should trust your gut and remove any doubt immediately. Perhaps asking a different local dealer his opinion would be helpful. Best of luck.

hoarder | 10-21-2003 09:12 AM
Re: 100 ounce bars Gpond and IrishGold, Thanks for your input.

Bullionaire | 12-11-2003 04:59 PM
Re: 100 ounce bars I remember in the mid 90's some lead filled bars turned up in I believe,Dallas....believe they were the older extruded....caused quite a stir...someone had scooped out middles and replaced with lead...we did ring tests at shop and never found two that rang exactly the same; I never had one returned from any individual or refinery......I sold more 1 and 10 ouncers in quantity as many people preferred smaller sizes or 90% coin. I handled a few 1000 ounce comex bars....talk about boat anchors...if in any doubt trade in...I do not know how a person could tell without sawing in half......

hoarder | 12-11-2003 05:08 PM
Re: 100 ounce bars Bullionaire, Thanks for your reply. Your background makes you an asset to this forum.

Goldhedge | 12-11-2003 05:22 PM
Re: 100 ounce bars Quote:
Originally Posted by butler Bullionaire, Thanks for your reply. Your background makes you an asset to this forum.
Also, FYI, if you consider how a xylophone works, you have a bar sitting on two rubber stops like this: ================= x x What the stops are doing is resting the bar at a nodal point (think zero point on a sine wave). On the second example there is an equal nodal point dead center on the bar. Acoustically, this works for just about any "bar" material ('cept rubber) second ex. ================ x Ok, now if you hold the bar at a nodal point and tap it with something hard, it will ring much longer than if you held it any where else. The center node is a fundamental whereas the 1/3 node will be a partial of the fundamental. Well dang it all, I can't seem to get the X's to lay right. hold the bar 1/3 the way from the end or dead center for the node.

hoarder | 12-11-2003 07:24 PM
Re: 100 ounce bars Goldhedge, That was over my head. When it comes time to sell, I'll first get rid of the bars that make the least music when I bang'em with my little ball-peen hammer.

Goldhedge | 12-12-2003 12:30 PM
Re: 100 ounce bars Quote:
Originally Posted by butler Goldhedge, That was over my head. When it comes time to sell, I'll first get rid of the bars that make the least music when I bang'em with my little ball-peen hammer.
The "node" is the point where the least vibration occurs. Holding it there allows the bar to vibrate to its fullest potential. Holding it any place else dampens vibration and therefore tone. Come to think about it, we're all but vibrations, frequencies spinning through space and time. :burnout:

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