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HistoryStudent | 09-18-2009 06:11 PM
Interesting HOW the MINT avoids the LAW :thumb.aspx::thumb.aspx: Public Law 99-185 Background to the American Eagle Gold Bullion Coin Act of 1985 by Joe Cobb This is the only legislation Ron Paul has introduced that has become law. It was drafted and introduced initially in 1983, when I was serving as his aide on the Coinage Subcommittee of the Banking Committee, in the 98th Congress. He hired me in 1983 because we shared a common idea about the future role of gold in the international monetary system. He still believes in this ideal, that gold � only gold (by weight) � can be the natural unit of �money.� I want to tell you the story of how the coin bill became law, after Ron Paul departed from Congress (it was enacted the following year, because I was still there working in Congress). Ron Paul had served on the U.S. Gold Commission, appointed by Secretary of Treasury Donald T. Regan in June 1981, to examine the role of gold in the national and international economy. The Report of that Commission was published in March 1982 and it basically said gold has no role to play in monetary policy. No role for gold: This has been the orthodox British Neo-Classical School opinion, both Keynesians and Monetarists, for about 150 years. The majority of the Gold Commission believed they had driven a stake into the heart of gold standard advocacy, which was strong at the end of the 1970s due to high inflation under Jimmy Carter. Senator Jesse Helms had gotten authorizing legislation to study the role of gold as part of a compromise to give more U.S. dollars to the International Monetary Fund in 1978. Carter had never bothered to appoint members of this temporary study group. The Reagan Administration responded to Helms� request to move forward. (I was a close friend of Howard Segermark, who was Jesse Helms� aide on gold and economic issues. Segermark was the person who drafted Helms� amendment to the IMF funding legislation in 1978.) The U.S. Gold Commission also reported, and recommended, in favor of a different idea. Milton Friedman had proposed: a real gold standard, in which gold actually circulated as money. This was published in The Journal of Law and Economics, vol.4 (1961), �Real and Pseudo Gold Standards.� This article by Friedman orginated as his half of a debate at the international society of classical liberals, the Mont Pelerin Society. Friedman favored floating exchange rates among currencies, and gold (by weight) was just another �currency� in his floating exchange rate system. The gold commission recommended a non-legal tender gold bullion coinage. When the Gold Commission was announced by Secretary Regan, I saw an opportunity. The idea for a specific U.S. Mint coinage was my version of Milton Friedman�s idea, combined with F.A. Hayek�s writings on the denationalization of currency. I incorporated a 501(c)(3) educational group, which I named �U.S. Choice in Currency Commission,� playing on the name of the U.S. Gold Commission. My idea was to put a bullion coinage at the center of a Hayekian scheme for parallel currencies. The example of the South African Krugerrand had been around since the early 1960s, when the parliament there created a legal tender bullion coin, denominated only by its weight: one troy ounce of gold in a 22 carat alloy. The paper monetary units of South Africa are known as �rand� (ZAR) but there has never been a fixed price of the gold coin in terms of those paper rand units. The Krugerrand had become in the 1970s the most popular and widely owned gold bullion coin on the market. Many other governments had also gotten into the bullion coin minting business. Canada�s Maple Leaf bullion coin was very popular because of its .999 purity. The United States Treasury bureaucrats were strongly opposed to any kind of gold coinage in the U.S. monetary system. Creating the Gold Coin in Congress One of the first things we needed, even before the Gold Commission had finished its report, was an example of what a new United States coinage would look like. The idea was to create a parallel monetary system for the United States � and for the U.S. government. A parallel montary system would provide a genuine monetary constitution, as the public could choose to hold gold bullion coins and credit instruments denominated in such coins, or the public could continue to use the traditional �dollar� units just as today. [ click here to see my proposal more fully ] If you read the text of the bill as written (H.R.3789, 97th Congress) it is clear how the expansion of gold circulation was intended directly to reduce the circulation of the Federal Reserve. The U.S. Treasury would engage in �reverse open market� transactions, issuing gold coins to the public � just as the Federal Reserve issues bank reserves to the financial system. But as the Treasury expansion of gold coinage would occur, a direct reduction in the Federal Reserve�s balance sheet would also occur. Here is an analysis of my first proposal in Congress, which was introduced by Rep. Dan Crane (R-IL). My good friend from Chicago, Bill Mencarow, was a principal staff aide to Congressman Crane, who introduced H.R.3789 in the 97th Congress. This analysis was written by Ernest Welker at the American Institute for Economic Research. [ click here to read a PDF copy of AIER 1981 (39) ] http://joecobb.com/2008/02/08/public-law-99-185/:111:

47Protons | 09-19-2009 10:28 AM
Re: Interesting HOW the MINT avoids the LAW Did you post the wrong article by mistake? What does the article have to do with the title of your post? I don't see anything in the article indicating that the mint is avoiding the law. Having read the law recently, I can't point to a section that the mint is avoiding. What did I miss? This seems to be one of your favorite topics, but you haven't been very specific. Do YOU think the mint isn't following the law? Please enlighten us. I believe 31 USC 5111 and 31 USC 5112 are the relevant sections. Here are the links again for convenience: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=RETRIEVE&FILE=$$xa$$busc31.wais&sta rt=2260662&SIZE=21447&TYPE=TEXT http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=RETRIEVE&FILE=$$xa$$busc31.wais&sta rt=2282115&SIZE=93048&TYPE=TEXT Which part is the mint avoiding? Am I referring to incorrect or obsolete copies of the law? Are there other relevant sections that I've missed?

HistoryStudent | 09-19-2009 03:58 PM
Re: Interesting HOW the MINT avoids the LAW http://www.silverbearcafe.com/privat...fiscation.html Have fun! :ok: Big HONEST report on the US Mint and thier SALES of BULLION: http://www.zealllc.com/2009/mintcoin.htm

HistoryStudent | 09-20-2009 04:49 PM
Re: Interesting HOW the MINT avoids the LAW Anyway, the US Mint Gold Eagle and Silver Eagle sales during these secular precious-metals bulls are very interesting. Monthly sales volumes have been highly erratic, which seems to imply underlying production is erratic too. If this is the case, the Mint is not producing at its full capacity. And if not, then it is violating its Congressional mandate to produce these coins in �quantities sufficient to meet public demand�. If it was, there would never be more than modest premiums on all Eagle coins. If significant premiums exist, the Mint is failing in its legal mission. I agree with ZEAL in the above statement from the report above. :36_1_32v::111::111:

Ragnarok | 09-20-2009 08:41 PM
Re: Interesting HOW the MINT avoids the LAW Maybe so, but who's going to hold their feet to the fire? :MIA: R.

Master_Ho | 09-21-2009 01:22 AM
Re: Interesting HOW the MINT avoids the LAW No law on the books can LEGALLY make them sell some thing they do not have!!! :wink: We're going to go round on this again, aren't we............*sigh*

specsaregood | 09-21-2009 09:14 AM
Re: Interesting HOW the MINT avoids the LAW Dr. Paul writes about this in his new book "End The Fed". Quote:
I argued for a gold coin without a dollar denomination stated as legal tender. I wanted people to think of money as weight. My ultimate goal is to repeal legal tender laws. It's just as well, though, that I lost that argument, since some are now testing the legal tender status of this coin by forcing it into circulation at face value. By the time the coin bill was finally passed in 1985, as a result of our effort in the Gold Commission, I was no longer in Congress. I introduced the orginal bill, but I left Congress at the end of 1984. Later there was a seperate bill to mint the Silver Eagle. The bill authorizing the minting of gold coins in four sizes: 1 oz, 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz, and 1/10 oz. The 1 oz coin was legal tender for $50, the 1/2 oz was $25, the 1/4 oz was $10 and the 1/10 oz was $5. Do a little bit of arithmetic and you realize the 1/4 oz or $10 coin makes no sense at all. Those who made the final decision on the bill wanted it to be confusing. The 1 oz of silver made legal tender for $1 futher compounds the problem of defining the dollar when compared to a Federal Reserve note, an old silver dollar or a Double Eagle. Making the coins legal tender was ridiculous and nonsensical and was done to guarantee that people wouldn't consider paying a $50 debt with an ounce of gold, nor would they do it with silver dollars.
pg. 77-78, End The Fed

HistoryStudent | 09-21-2009 09:27 AM
Re: Interesting HOW the MINT avoids the LAW Quote:
Originally Posted by specsaregood (Post 1932006) Dr. Paul writes about this in his new book "End The Fed". pg. 77-78, End The Fed
Confusion and compromise - the tools of the devil in the details. :10_1_19::111::111:

ToBeSelfEvident | 09-25-2009 10:19 PM
Re: Interesting HOW the MINT avoids the LAW Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 1929665) Big HONEST report on the US Mint and thier SALES of BULLION: http://www.zealllc.com/2009/mintcoin.htm
The author is wondering about the decline in sales of AGEs in 2005, 2006, and 2007. Did he forget about the Gold Buffalos? Buffalos are never mentioned in the text of the article and it's not clear if they are included in his chart.

HistoryStudent | 09-26-2009 02:18 PM
Re: Interesting HOW the MINT avoids the LAW Confusion, lies, and compromise are really the tools of the devil. KINDA reminds me of the school system since 1963.... :111::111:

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