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HistoryStudent | 03-25-2010 10:12 AM
BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC http://www.coinvaluesonline.com/cont...ry&news_id=891 Seems that TODAY is the DAY for the ANNOUNCEMENT by PCGS.

HistoryStudent | 03-25-2010 10:25 AM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC http://news.coinupdate.com/pcgs-to-u...E2%80%9D-0179/ One HOUR from NOW at 7:30 a.m. Pacific Standard Time... Fort Worth is two hours ahead...

livtocruz | 03-25-2010 11:26 AM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC :23_30_104::applause_:applause_:applause_

HistoryStudent | 03-25-2010 12:09 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC http://www.collectors.com/tbo/index.html BIG one coming soon per their SITE! :23_30_104::23_30_104:bancha

St. Germain | 03-25-2010 12:19 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC This does make the day more interesting. Thanks History - you gave me something to look forward to.:beer: ST

ppius13 | 03-25-2010 01:06 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC I just hope that the "big announcement" does not unintentionally create two categories of PCGS coins: the ones graded with the "improvements" and the ones graded prior to the "improvements. That could make the newly graded coins preferable.

St. Germain | 03-25-2010 01:19 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by ppius13 (Post 2243371) I just hope that the "big announcement" does not unintentionally create two categories of PCGS coins: the ones graded with the "improvements" and the ones graded prior to the "improvements. That could make the newly graded coins preferable.
I hear you. But there is already a unspoken two tiered grading ranking. "Grading cycles" are a given as the houses struggled for market share. I believe HS could provide a more succinct explanation. ST

indieangler | 03-25-2010 01:32 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC PCGS revolutionizes the rare coin industry again with PCGS Secure Plus™ - the most important innovation since the advent of third-party grading. The new service builds confidence with greater security, and adds value with Plus grades. Imagine a world without coin doctoring. Imagine a world without "gradeflation." Now it's here.

madfranks | 03-25-2010 01:44 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
It is a fact of life that high-end coins exist within each grade. Collectors and dealers alike will seek these coins out and pay more for them. The PCGS SecurePlus system is designed to help single out the more desirable high-end coins within a grade. Coins meriting the "+" designation could command a significant premium.
http://www.pcgs.com/images/secureplusimg-1.jpg "High end coins exist within each grade"? If you have an MS-64 coin, if it was any better it would be a 65! There's no such thing as a "high-end MS-64", to infer so would mean there was a "low-end MS-64", in which case it would be a 63 or lower. They're basically trying to create new gradations, i.e. MS-64 and MS-64+. This is no different than those CAC stickers they're trying to hock on the slabbed coins as well. "Let us look at your PCGS MS-64 coin, and if we agree with it, you get this little green sticker which proves that it really is MS-64!" What a crock.

RossL | 03-25-2010 01:53 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC sounds like a good way to get millions of slabs back in for re-grading. now you can have your ultra-high-relief in MS69, MS69+ or MS70.

Dude | 03-25-2010 01:54 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC I've got some coins that I swear are a tick mark from a higher grade. Maybe they would get a plus.

HistoryStudent | 03-25-2010 01:54 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by ppius13 (Post 2243371) I just hope that the "big announcement" does not unintentionally create two categories of PCGS coins: the ones graded with the "improvements" and the ones graded prior to the "improvements. That could make the newly graded coins preferable.
Amen, BROTHER "you got the BOTTOM line - 'the RE-SLAB make-a-bucker' - and mess over the clients." There will be a double standard now! :signs14:

HistoryStudent | 03-25-2010 01:55 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude (Post 2243469) I've got some coins that I swear are a tick mark from a higher grade. Maybe they would get a plus.
NGC always had a PLUS expressed by an * (asterisk) :signs14:

chad | 03-25-2010 01:57 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC yet another reason i buy generic metal in assay cards.

HistoryStudent | 03-25-2010 01:57 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 2243443) http://www.pcgs.com/images/secureplusimg-1.jpg "High end coins exist within each grade"? If you have an MS-64 coin, if it was any better it would be a 65! There's no such thing as a "high-end MS-64", to infer so would mean there was a "low-end MS-64", in which case it would be a 63 or lower. They're basically trying to create new gradations, i.e. MS-64 and MS-64+. This is no different than those CAC stickers they're trying to hock on the slabbed coins as well. "Let us look at your PCGS MS-64 coin, and if we agree with it, you get this little green sticker which proves that it really is MS-64!" What a crock.
Business scam I wonder what CAC and NGC will say PRIVATELY gosh, I'm a sceptic today - and questioning way too much. I'm sorry.

HistoryStudent | 03-25-2010 02:00 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 2243443) http://www.pcgs.com/images/secureplusimg-1.jpg "High end coins exist within each grade"? If you have an MS-64 coin, if it was any better it would be a 65! There's no such thing as a "high-end MS-64", to infer so would mean there was a "low-end MS-64", in which case it would be a 63 or lower. They're basically trying to create new gradations, i.e. MS-64 and MS-64+. This is no different than those CAC stickers they're trying to hock on the slabbed coins as well. "Let us look at your PCGS MS-64 coin, and if we agree with it, you get this little green sticker which proves that it really is MS-64!" What a crock.
In backroom slab Shanghai Town - China right now I hear them saying: "Quickie quickie copie copie that'ee new'ee label, Chop Chop (shop)"

Apocalypto | 03-25-2010 02:04 PM
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Dude | 03-25-2010 02:07 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Can't use Regular or Economy service with Secure Plus. Weasels. <TABLE class=servicetable border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="99%"><TBODY><TR align=right><TH align=left>SERVICE </TH><TH align=middle>PCGS STANDARD FEE </TH><TH align=middle>PCGS SECURE PLUS FEE </TH><TH noWrap><CENTER>ESTIMATED TURNAROUND (Business Days) </CENTER> </TH><TH noWrap>MAXIMUM COIN VALUE </TH></TR><TR align=right bgColor=white><TD align=left>ULTRA RARITIES </TD><TD align=middle>N/A </TD><TD align=middle>$600 </TD><TD>2 - 5 days </TD><TD>None </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>RARITIES </TD><TD align=middle>N/A </TD><TD align=middle>$250 </TD><TD>2 - 5 days </TD><TD>$200,000 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>WALKTHROUGH (In-House) </TD><TD align=middle>$100 </TD><TD align=middle>$125 </TD><TD>2 days </TD><TD>$100,000 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>EXPRESS </TD><TD align=middle>$50 </TD><TD align=middle>$65 </TD><TD>5 days </TD><TD>$20,000 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>REGULAR </TD><TD align=middle>$30 </TD><TD align=middle>N/A </TD><TD>15 days </TD><TD>$3,000 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>ECONOMY(Non-Gold) </TD><TD align=middle>$18 </TD><TD align=middle>N/A </TD><TD><!--20 - 30 days �-->20 - 30 days </TD><TD>$300 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>MODERN (1956 to date) </TD><TD align=middle>$14 </TD><TD align=middle>N/A </TD><TD><!--20 - 30 days �-->20 - 30 days </TD><TD>$1000 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>MINT ERRORS </TD><TD align=middle>$50 </TD><TD align=middle>N/A </TD><TD>25 - 35 days </TD><TD>$20,000 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>SPECIAL ISSUES (U.S. Coins only) (Colonials, Fractional Gold, Patterns) </TD><TD align=middle>$50 </TD><TD align=middle>N/A </TD><TD>25 - 35 days </TD><TD>$20,000 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>REHOLDER </TD><TD align=middle>$10 </TD><TD align=middle>$20 </TD><TD>10 - 12 days </TD><TD>$20,000 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>REHOLDER </TD><TD align=middle>$30 </TD><TD align=middle>$40 </TD><TD>10 - 12 days </TD><TD>over $20,000 or PCGS MS70 or PR70 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>BULK (100 coins min) </TD><TD align=middle>$10* </TD><TD align=middle>N/A </TD><TD>30 days </TD><TD>No more than four different date or mint mark combinations </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>SHOW EXPRESS </TD><TD align=middle>$200 </TD><TD align=middle>$250 </TD><TD>2 - 3 hours </TD><TD>$200,000 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>SHOW </TD><TD align=middle>$100 </TD><TD align=middle>$125 </TD><TD>1 day </TD><TD>$100,000 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>SHOW ECONOMY (Minimum 5 coins) </TD><TD align=middle>$65 </TD><TD align=middle>N/A </TD><TD>2 days </TD><TD>$3,000 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left>SHOW GOLD (Minimum 10 coins) </TD><TD align=middle>$45 </TD><TD align=middle>$55 </TD><TD>2 days </TD><TD>$3,000</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Apocalypto | 03-25-2010 02:13 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude (Post 2243498) Can't use Regular or Economy service with Secure Plus. Weasels.
That'll change over time as the technology gets cheaper. They need to pay for their new equipment and system. How is that not a new concept in business? You're asking for a company to do all kinds of R&D in a very important area, then be the first to come up with a new system and not charge for it? I'm sorry, but I don't really see the problem here. It's supply and demand, it's business. It's capitalism. If you don't want the choice, don't choose it.

HistoryStudent | 03-25-2010 02:16 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Just like the DEALERS (or the collectors for that matter) can LOOK :captain: HIGH & LOW for a SHINY PCGS UHR and send it INTO NGC for a TRY at a * PROOF LIKE * PCGS will have us all looking for Attractive upper grades of coins especially IN GOLD (like Saints - which I have a FEW!) for a RE-GRADE of a "PLUS." More BUSINESS in slow times I don't care what the business is TPT RUN the businesses have to L@@K for NEW ways to expand to keep what they have built up. Remember all BUSTS were made in B@@M times because TPT RUN those BUST businesses over-expanded with too much mal-investment. Take a LOOKSEE at the CRUISE industry - that's a HIGH PRESSURE POT cooking on the stove about ready to blow. :signs14: for telling the truth... on the above two posts we all have our viewpoints and they are both correct - we all vote with our personal pocketbooks - right?

HistoryStudent | 03-25-2010 02:23 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by ppius13 (Post 2243371) I just hope that the "big announcement" does not unintentionally create two categories of PCGS coins: the ones graded with the "improvements" and the ones graded prior to the "improvements. That could make the newly graded coins preferable.
That'll create a new pricing scheme... MS 60 low middle high all the way down to MS 70 low middle high They just ex-officially made 210 grades instead of just 70 .... :111::111::111::111::111: All we need now is PRICES... :bull-smile: From NGC forum today: The Official ANA Grading Guide specifically states that "plus" and "minus" signs are not valid in expressing the grade of a coin. But maybe PCGS doesn't give a darn about the ANA or established grading standards.

cpthnsolo | 03-25-2010 03:02 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC While the change by pcgs is clearly an outrageous overt cash grab you can't blame them one bit. Heck this is good news IMO as all of those high grade PCGS coins that I'm chasing now will be cheaper in a few months because they don't have a plus next to their grade :yes:.

Dude | 03-25-2010 03:22 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypto (Post 2243512) That'll change over time as the technology gets cheaper. They need to pay for their new equipment and system. How is that not a new concept in business? You're asking for a company to do all kinds of R&D in a very important area, then be the first to come up with a new system and not charge for it? I'm sorry, but I don't really see the problem here. It's supply and demand, it's business. It's capitalism. If you don't want the choice, don't choose it.
Of course it's not a "problem", but I consider it a piss-poor offering to those used to $18 submissions. They added it to express only was the point. In order to get the Secure Plus service, you not only have to pay for the added service of Secure Plus, you also have to up the ante and pay for a faster grade of service than you were possibly using in the past. They are double dipping into your wallet for Secure Plus. Of course it's their choice to do it this way. I just pointed it out. It's like going from a single cone to a double, but you are forced to buy sprinkles if you want the double. My $18 submission went to $65 if I want Secure Plus.

Stealinator | 03-25-2010 03:29 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC In otherwords, for all this fan fair, it is just a rate hike!

St. Germain | 03-25-2010 03:42 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Simple choice - I can go for the new and improved super duper secure service for the extra ducats OR I can just buy the coin and not the holder. Hmmm...... Crackouts and raw are still the same test of acuity that they always were. ST

Buyingsilvers | 03-25-2010 03:53 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Might as well start using decimals. MS-64.5

Dude | 03-25-2010 03:59 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by Buyingsilvers (Post 2243711) Might as well start using decimals. MS-64.5
My first thought as well.

ds_mustang | 03-25-2010 04:15 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Whatever system they come up with for slabbing coins, if the manufacturing of the process is done in China it will be immediately counterfeited (and what manufacture isn't done in China?). That's the irony with some Asian counterfeited products--they're not fakes, they're real product from the same factory but sold on the side.

indieangler | 03-25-2010 04:58 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC I ironically got my PCGS Gold membership kit in the mail today. I hope the 2nd quarter member's special involves SecurePlus so I can check it out.

HistoryStudent | 03-25-2010 05:08 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by indieangler (Post 2243822) I ironically got my PCGS Gold membership kit in the mail today. I hope the 2nd quarter member's special involves SecurePlus so I can check it out.
Look deep they won't do anyone any favors. I know they still owe me about ten cetificates for the last 7 years. Sorry here I go complaining again. :111:

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Gold & Silver Forum - BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC

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- - BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=458847)

indieangler | 03-25-2010 05:10 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Hah, oh HS you're such a sweetheart.

1981 | 03-25-2010 07:45 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC I can't wait for the first MS70+ (which is only slightly higher than an MS69++)

Stealinator | 03-25-2010 07:58 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Have an 06 proof Buffalo have been thinking about sending out. Really is nice, dunno if worth it or not. Whats your alls opinion on sending proofs to get graded?

Apocalypto | 03-25-2010 07:59 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by 1981 (Post 2244033) I can't wait for the first MS70+ (which is only slightly higher than an MS69++)
You mean infinity +1?

Apocalypto | 03-25-2010 08:03 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude (Post 2243665) Of course it's not a "problem", but I consider it a piss-poor offering to those used to $18 submissions. They added it to express only was the point. In order to get the Secure Plus service, you not only have to pay for the added service of Secure Plus, you also have to up the ante and pay for a faster grade of service than you were possibly using in the past. They are double dipping into your wallet for Secure Plus. Of course it's their choice to do it this way. I just pointed it out. It's like going from a single cone to a double, but you are forced to buy sprinkles if you want the double. My $18 submission went to $65 if I want Secure Plus.
But you can still opt for the $18 submission. That's the point. They're still offering the same price for the same service. Someone else said rate hike? Seriously? How so? it's a totally new, superior product which costs more money. How is that a rate hike? It's like if BMW were offering a brand new model with 200 more HP, better traction control and other better features, yet you guys think the price should stay the same as the 3 series sedan. Sheesh, you guys are a tough crowd.

CoinHunter53562 | 03-25-2010 08:12 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2243473) NGC always had a PLUS expressed by an * (asterisk) :signs14:
That's the first thing that came to my mind when I saw this new designation.

HistoryStudent | 03-25-2010 08:19 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC I sent in my NGC MS70* to PCGS and GOT a Drum ROLL please...... MS71 Just Kidding.... Got YA there right? :thumb.aspx::signs14:

HistoryStudent | 03-25-2010 08:22 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealinator (Post 2244058) Have an 06 proof Buffalo have been thinking about sending out. Really is nice, dunno if worth it or not. Whats your alls opinion on sending proofs to get graded?
To give you a HEADS-UP with all the BS and stuff piled Higher and Deeper LIKE a Ph.D I waiting right now for a few weeks before I submit anything. And I have a LOT to SUBmit. Can't wait to see if one of my RAW UHRs gets the proof like MS70* LIKE a PCGS MS71, right?

mispillion | 03-25-2010 08:34 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC another bullet to the head of the golden goose. they lost a lot of potential coin collectors way back when, when they instituted the ms system. many coin collector said "f**k this, and got out of collecting. i would assume many kids saw grading now as too complex and almost random to ever want to get seriously involved. you can now almost garrantee that most coin shops will fudge down in grade when buying and the other direction when selling. ------------------------ success breed expansion expansion breeds complexity complexity breeds decay ------------------------ damn those greedy "experts" as they've destroyed one more fine hobby and learning tool, coin collecting

Master_Ho | 03-26-2010 12:49 AM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealinator (Post 2243676) In otherwords, for all this fan fair, it is just a rate hike!
Exactly - I am so disappointed........ :sleepy13:

Dude | 03-26-2010 09:28 AM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypto (Post 2244065) But you can still opt for the $18 submission. That's the point. They're still offering the same price for the same service. Sheesh, you guys are a tough crowd.
No, my point was and is if you want the Secure Plus feature, you will have to go to the $50 express services (plus the extra $15 for Secure Plus) over the $18 economy. This thread is not about price increases or the same services they have been offering. It is about the new Secure Plus service, which they do not offer with the economy submission. That was my point. I've never paid for express service - $50 cuts too deep into a lot of my slabs. Sheesh, can you not understand my simple point?

Agfinger | 03-26-2010 12:05 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC A wise man once said.... First we collected the coin.. Then we collected the coin holder... Now we collect holograms..

HistoryStudent | 03-26-2010 02:30 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by Agfinger (Post 2245130) A wise man once said.... First we collected the coin.. Then we collected the coin holder... Now we collect holograms..
So discerning and insightful: :23_28_100s: May I humbly add.... :36_1_32v: And LET the COIN slabbers make Fisrt Strikes and PLUS...es (in fees & extra charges & collectables)

HistoryStudent | 03-26-2010 05:04 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC http://news.coinupdate.com/pcgs-secu...insecure-0205/ Coin article on COIN UPDATE site...

Dude | 03-27-2010 01:35 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude (Post 2244851) No, my point was and is if you want the Secure Plus feature, you will have to go to the $50 express services (plus the extra $15 for Secure Plus) over the $18 economy. This thread is not about price increases or the same services they have been offering. It is about the new Secure Plus service, which they do not offer with the economy submission. That was my point. I've never paid for express service - $50 cuts too deep into a lot of my slabs. Sheesh, can you not understand my simple point?
From the article: To potentially earn the PCGC Plus grades, you have to submit in these pricey categories: Ultra rarities, 2-5 days turnaround, $600 fee; rarities, $200,000 maximum value, 2-5 days turnaround, $250; Walkthrough (in house), $100,000 maximum value, 2 days turnaround, $125; Express, $20,000 maximum value, 5 days turnaround, $65; reholder, $20,000 maximum value, 10-12 days turnaround, $20. (There are show express, show and show gold fees, too.) So as far as hobbyists like me are concerned, if I want to reholder a PCGS coin, I would need to pay a $20 fee per coin. So in general I won't qualify for Secure Plus because my bank account is minus these days. I guess I'm not the only one finding their pricing policy distasteful.

Buyingsilvers | 03-28-2010 12:10 AM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Quote:
Originally Posted by mispillion (Post 2244122) ------------------------ success breed expansion expansion breeds complexity complexity breeds decay ------------------------ damn those greedy "experts" as they've destroyed one more fine hobby and learning tool, coin collecting
I'd say the same is true for the "state quarter" and other similar programs. The mint sees these design changes as a cash cow, and now they're expanding them to the point of absurdity. Lincoln penny, 6 design changes in 1 year or something?

Jekyll7 | 03-28-2010 09:52 PM
Re: BIG DAY "Grading Changes Ahead" PCGS & NGC Dude, I think you're absolutely right. PCGS should have left the option open to use the new service without express. The way it stands, they are absolutely double dipping. I'd have to think that you are not alone in your complaint, and I seriously wonder if this is a blunder on the part of PCGS, as many collectors will say F-this and stick with the old system. If the idea is to get people to re-submit previously graded PCGS coins for additional revenue, it seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot. Would I pay extra to use the new service? Yes. Will I do it if I'm forced to swallow express fees on top of the already more expensive service? Nope.

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