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- Gold - Silver - Coins - Numismatics (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
- - Numismatic question - all input accepted (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=209176)

The Great Ag | 12-06-2007 10:45 PM
Numismatic question - all input accepted All right, I know most GIMers will think this a HUGE waste of FRNs for PMs, but I did a great deal today which included a 1928 P mint Peace dollar either AU 58-MS62 for $300. Sweet deal, but whoever owned it, stored it in a PVC flip, so there is some green corrsosion on it. Yuck! My question, what are y'alls opinions on cleaning the green? I am very much tempted to clean it. Make it real shiny. This is a nice find for my collection. The Great Ag

Master_Ho | 12-06-2007 10:53 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 862923) All right, I know most GIMers will think this a HUGE waste of FRNs for PMs, but I did a great deal today which included a 1928 P mint Peace dollar either AU 58-MS62 for $300. Sweet deal, but whoever owned it, stored it in a PVC flip, so there is some green corrsosion on it. Yuck! My question, what are y'alls opinions on cleaning the green? I am very much tempted to clean it. Make it real shiny. This is a nice find for my collection. The Great Ag
Well, I can certainly see the Tao aspect in this - cleaning/dipping to make it look nicer but quite possbily losing some of its value........or not cleaning it, retaining its value and looking at an ugly coin. Those who are into numismatics will tell you not to clean it. Those not, will tell you clean it and screw the numismatic aspects. Having said that - its up to YOU to decide which side of the fence you are on. Personally, as one of the first group, I would not clean it - and certainly not clean it myself - I would take it to my coin dealers - discuss it with them and if they thought they could dip it and not have it lose its value (they do that a lot) - then I would let them IF they felt it would not hurt its value. (I already have one Morgan that is worth only is silver value due to someone cleaning it so poorly PCGS wouldn't grade it - I didn't pay anything for the coin so I lost nothing - but it could have been worth a lot of FRNs!) But - finally - many, myself included, and authors of leading numismatic books, think shiny older coins look fake........... I know - this was no help! :D and

Pragmatist | 12-06-2007 10:56 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Use Brasso and some Comet or Ajax. That will take that unsightly green right off.:sarcasm: DO NOT clean it. It's worth more green, than clean. Call It Toning ~Prag

j-son | 12-06-2007 10:59 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted you spent a lot of money for less than an ounce of silver...dont destroy its value by cleaning it. keep it as is.

Jack London | 12-06-2007 11:12 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted It's an (eh hem) eco-friendly coin.

The Great Ag | 12-06-2007 11:13 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Thanks all. As soon as I can get my camera up, I will post pics of the coin. With the PVC stain on it, which is more detractive? The stain or a good cleaning? The Great Ag

Master_Ho | 12-06-2007 11:26 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 862960) With the PVC stain on it, which is more detractive? The stain or a good cleaning?
Respectfully - is that really the right question? If you go to sell it and expect anything like its value - who will you sell it to? (ME! ME! :D) Someone who wants it for its numismatic value. Will it have the same - or any - numismatic value if it looks better but is cleaned?

EE_ | 12-06-2007 11:29 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted I believe acetone is what they use, but don't take my word. The guys over at the PCGS collectors universe forum can help you. http://forums.collectors.com/categories.cfm?catid=26 Type in acetone

The Great Ag | 12-06-2007 11:39 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 862980) Respectfully - is that really the right question? Will it have the same - or any - numismatic value if it looks better but is cleaned?
Part of it is personal, as this fills a hole in my collection, so I probably will not sell it anytime soon. So cleaning is initially for me. When I do sell it, or if the kids do, after they have buried my bones, a 1928 will still have mucho value. AU58-MS62 (I have not had the opportunity to grade properly) is still that but cleaned. My dealer did not really have an opinion, either way. He just makes profit. Looking at the coin with a naked eye, it looks like sticky gunk on the coin with small black carbon on the reverse. Under a loupe a different story. There is a fair amount of cartwheeling which cleaning will remove. I am such a wuss, I will probably not clean it. :no_ma: Either way, I got it for 300FRN, not bad, eh Master Ho. The Great Ag

Master_Ho | 12-06-2007 11:50 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 862994) Part of it is personal, as this fills a hole in my collection, so I probably will not sell it anytime soon. So cleaning is initially for me. When I do sell it, or if the kids do, after they have buried my bones, a 1928 will still have mucho value. AU58-MS62 (I have not had the opportunity to grade properly) is still that but cleaned. My dealer did not really have an opinion, either way. He just makes profit. Looking at the coin with a naked eye, it looks like sticky gunk on the coin with small black carbon on the reverse. Under a loupe a different story. There is a fair amount of cartwheeling which cleaning will remove. I am such a wuss, I will probably not clean it. :no_ma: Either way, I got it for 300FRN, not bad, eh Master Ho. The Great Ag
Yess - I think you got a GREAT deal - and no, I, personally, sure wouldn't take a chance of losing a dime of its value by cleaning/dipping it! I don't think its wussy at all!

The Great Ag | 12-06-2007 11:57 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 863005) Yess - I think you got a GREAT deal - and no, I, personally, sure wouldn't take a chance of losing a dime of its value by cleaning/dipping it! I don't think its wussy at all!
Thanks, Ho: I knew you would understand. The Great Ag

Bob | 12-07-2007 12:01 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted You might look into the restoration services the grading companies offer. That PVC stuff is notorious for killing coins. I forget what it's called but with copper coins, if you don't remove it, it will eat the whole damn thing. These are 10% copper so you might do some research.

The Great Ag | 12-07-2007 12:04 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob (Post 863019) You might look into the restoration services the grading companies offer. That PVC stuff is notorious for killing coins. I forget what it's called but with copper coins, if you don't remove it, it will eat the whole damn thing. These are 10% copper so you might do some research.
Yeah, my dealer mentioned restorative services too. Not sure what I will do. For now, just hold it a stare lovingly into its cartwheels. AHHHH, home! :applause_ The Great Ag

AuNuggets | 12-07-2007 09:34 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Trichlorotriflouroethane Neutral Coin Solvent (available from E & T Kointainer Co., Box 103, Sidney, Ohio, 45365). This solvent will NOT remove anything but grime, grit, and polyvinyl chloride, the green gummy stuff that migrates onto the coins surface from being stored in vinyl "flip" coin holders using PVC based plastics. The problem is that some coins with this green goo have been exposed to it for long periods of time, and it has caused some slight corrosion to the surface of the coin. Once removed, the corrosion is apparent. The solvent itself will not damage the surface of the coin like regular coin "dips" will. If the coin was "toned" or tarnished before the PVC goo started building up on the coin, so much the better, as the actual toning or oxidized metal helps protect the original surface below. Avoid regular "coin dip", as it usually does more harm than good.

Professur | 12-07-2007 10:13 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
Originally Posted by AuNuggets (Post 863368) Trichlorotriflouroethane Neutral Coin Solvent (available from E & T Kointainer Co., Box 103, Sidney, Ohio, 45365). This solvent will NOT remove anything but grime, grit, and polyvinyl chloride, the green gummy stuff that migrates onto the coins surface from being stored in vinyl "flip" coin holders using PVC based plastics. The problem is that some coins with this green goo have been exposed to it for long periods of time, and it has caused some slight corrosion to the surface of the coin. Once removed, the corrosion is apparent. The solvent itself will not damage the surface of the coin like regular coin "dips" will. If the coin was "toned" or tarnished before the PVC goo started building up on the coin, so much the better, as the actual toning or oxidized metal helps protect the original surface below. Avoid regular "coin dip", as it usually does more harm than good.
Isn't that the stuff they used to use in fire extinguishers?

Anty Ep | 12-07-2007 10:30 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted I saw an ad in coinvalues about this outfit, why not call or email them pics and solicit and opinion and a quote? ncs I think .. .. numismatic conservation services? dont have the ad in front of me. ... http://www.ncscoin.com/

AuNuggets | 12-07-2007 11:08 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 863412) Isn't that the stuff they used to use in fire extinguishers?
Not sure if it was or not. I do know that it is extremely volitile, evaporates almost instantly, and leaves the coins cold to the touch....... almost like spraying them with freon.

AlwaysWrite | 12-07-2007 11:19 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted I'd be careful. As for wanting it to look "pretty," couldn't you have gotten a common date Peace Dollar in MS63-64 for about $35-$50? So you paid $300 for a numismatic rarity, the last thing you want to do is destroy the numismatic premium you paid.

Professur | 12-07-2007 11:39 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Found it. Tetrachloroethane is the stuff I was remembering.

twenty4karat | 12-07-2007 02:47 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Leave it be. Maranatha, :smile:

Bob | 12-07-2007 03:17 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted I found one thread at cointalk discussing this: http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=11813 The green stuff is called verdigris and you should look into it.

AuNuggets | 12-07-2007 03:24 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob (Post 863835) I found one thread at cointalk discussing this: http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=11813 The green stuff is called verdigris and you should look into it.
The term "verdigris" is more commonly used to describe the green copper oxide corrosion found on copper or brass coins. This green PVC migration is a completely different problem.

Highbanker | 12-09-2007 08:31 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Not Verdigris....It's called toe jam..... really.....if you paid $300 for a graded coin it should be slabbed, right...and you are asking if you should un-slab the thing to clean it??? C'mon..... Just save yourself the trouble in the future and buy $300 worth of gold bullion... my 2 cents...

The Great Ag | 12-09-2007 11:33 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
Originally Posted by Highbanker (Post 866885) Not Verdigris....It's called toe jam..... really.....if you paid $300 for a graded coin it should be slabbed, right...and you are asking if you should un-slab the thing to clean it??? C'mon..... Just save yourself the trouble in the future and buy $300 worth of gold bullion... my 2 cents...
Hey, Highbanker, it was not graded. I prefer raw coins. Seems you are a bulliion boy, so numismatics is something you do not play with, ya? The Great Ag

Anty Ep | 12-10-2007 08:36 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted I think the poor detail on GW is an inherent part of the design. Also, weak strikes are generally not collectible errors, just "sucky" errors-- from what I can tell. Scott Travers makes a lot of fuss out of the fact that the major grading services will rate poor and good strikes alike, except for ms-70 of course, in which a perfect strike is a requirement-- but in other grades strike is not rated. That is what part of this CAC sticker thingee is about I gather

RossL | 12-10-2007 08:45 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted soaking it overnight in acetone or using the trichloro will not hurt the surface as long as you do not scrub. Rinse with water and pat dry with soft towels. do not scrub. :D

Wyldwil | 12-10-2007 09:09 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
all input accepted
Makes me miss my ex-girlfriend......:wink:

Paranoid Android | 12-10-2007 06:45 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted do you have any pix of the coin, Great Ag?

CyberGold | 12-10-2007 08:16 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted I had some Barber dimes stored in a popular brand album that turned out to be full of PVC/ The green slime was on everything. I swirled them one by one in a glass of acetone and it removed the green nicely. Lucky these were circulated coins so it didn't make much difference.

KASHMAN02 | 12-10-2007 08:21 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 862960) Thanks all. As soon as I can get my camera up, I will post pics of the coin. With the PVC stain on it, which is more detractive? The stain or a good cleaning? The Great Ag
Send it to ANACS to have it graded. They grade problem coins.

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- Gold - Silver - Coins - Numismatics (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
- - Numismatic question - all input accepted (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=209176)

The Great Ag | 12-10-2007 11:04 PM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Here are pics of the 1928 peace dollar. They are not the best and do not show the beauty of the coin, but you can see some of the slime on the obverse, and a nice green glob to the right of the eagle's beak on the reverse. Not sure what I will do, but I might try RossL's idea of the acetone. I will probably experiment on a more common coin first to see the reaction. The Great Ag http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/000_0010.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/000_0009.jpg

RossL | 12-11-2007 07:45 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Be careful with the acetone. It will ruin the finish on a wooden table. I keep some out in the garage and don't bring it inside.

Anty Ep | 12-11-2007 08:44 AM
Re: Numismatic question - all input accepted Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberGold (Post 868306) I had some Barber dimes stored in a popular brand album that turned out to be full of PVC/ The green slime was on everything. I swirled them one by one in a glass of acetone and it removed the green nicely. Lucky these were circulated coins so it didn't make much difference.
what brand was that, & was it an old one or a new one?

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