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- - Buffalo Coin Confusion (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=48211)

Darkside | 07-24-2006 10:26 AM
Buffalo Coin Confusion Or maybe this is just confusion from a non-numismatic person... The US Mint only has one type of Buffalo coin for sale, labelled as "proof" and set at $800. Going to APMEX I see they sell 3 types of Buffalo coins: Regular "uncirculated" for $644 PCGS Graded MS-69 'First Strike' for $652 PCGS Graded MS-70 'First Strike' for a whopping $1,995 ! Now, none of those under APMEX suggest they are 'proofs' like the US Mint sells. How come you can't buy regular unciriculated Buffalo coins from the Mint anyway? Just Proofs? And when you order those proofs from the mint are they MS-69 or MS-70 or is it a gamble? Is it like.. I order a coin from the Mint... x% chance it winds up graded as a MS-69 so its value is $652 and hence I got ripped off $150 but y% chance it gets graded MS-70 so I actually win $1200 ??? Im not understanding all this...

Wyldwil | 07-24-2006 10:56 AM
Re: Buffalo Coin Confusion The US mint does not sell "bullion" directly to the public. SAE's or Gold coins. They provide them to dealers to sell to the public. Well...just read this.... http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/..._eagle_bullion :wink:

Az Ag | 07-24-2006 12:20 PM
Re: Buffalo Coin Confusion 69Let me give you may understanding. The Mint does not sell bullion coins to the general public. They only sell proof coins to the general public. The mint sells its bullion coins to wholesalers who then sell to the general public. The standards to become an authorized wholesaler of the Mint are fairly restrictive. At least I know I do not meet their standards and therefore cannot become an authorized wholesaler for the Mint. There are two grading designations for gold/silver coins. MS is used for bullion coins such as are sold by APMEX, and PF for proof coins sold by the Mint. While there are grades lower than MS69/PF69, the coin stamping and boxing/shipping processes used by the US Govt are of such high standards that most coins made will be either MS69 or PF69. You may get a MS70/PF70occasionally, but they are somewhat rare. That is why you see so many MS 69's compared to MS 70's on APMEX along with the corresponding price differential. If you buy a gold buffalo proof from the mint and send it off to get graded, the odds are that it will come back as a PF 69. This should not have much of an impact on the value in either direction as that is what most graded proof coins will come back as. However, if you are lucky and get a PF 70 coin back, then the value will significantly increase. APMEX buys hundred of gold buffalos and gets them graded because they know the odds are they will receive a few MS 70's back which they can then sell for a much larger premium, and the MS 69's can probably be sold for their normal sales price plus a small premium for the grading charges. I'm sure that APMEX doesn't pay as much for grading per coin as you or I would if we sent in just one or two coins, simply because of the tremendous volume of coins they send in to be graded. I hope this has helped.

SirSilverOzzyyzzO | 07-24-2006 02:00 PM
Re: Buffalo Coin Confusion Quote:
Originally Posted by j-son (Post 308935) when you send buffalo proofs in to ngc for grading do you send the whole book in?
No, you do not send in the whole book. Pop out the ounce in it's little plastic capsule, from the book. Then place the, plastic encapsulated Buffalo ounce into a 2 x 2 flip.- Same for, Ngc & PCGS. Think long and hard about sending just one in (If you are looking to sell, near term?)... A longggg shot @ getting a, PF-70. Look around, NGC PF-69 Buffalo's are selling for less than what the coin cost(For now anyway). The Gov't issued boxes are going for more-People want that chance of a, 70...

mozkill | 07-24-2006 02:15 PM
Re: Buffalo Coin Confusion i bought a roll of silver eagles recently and when i got home they were all "circulated" versions. i dont think it was worth the $2 premium for damaged coins. always check your stuff before you leave the store. hey, does anyone have a web link that describes exactly how to grade these coins so that next time I go buy one that I can quibble with the seller and get a fair deal? also, what is the expected premium that a person should realistically pay for each grade of uncirculated coin? also, what should be the premium on a "circulated" coin?

SirSilverOzzyyzzO | 07-24-2006 02:26 PM
Re: Buffalo Coin Confusion Quote:
Originally Posted by j-son (Post 308976) i ordered 10 of them and was going to send in 5 of them. i cant send it in the plastic air tite that it comes with?
Ten? Are you already a NGC member? I always let my yearly subscription run out. Then re-apply. Seems for me anyway that, I always get a 70 when I use the coupon, as a new member. I think a way of reeling me/sheeple in. What I'm saying is, if you didn't already know? You get to submit 5 free submissions upon enrolling. If you are not a member yet? Then I think sending 5 coins in with the coupon will up your odds. I actually do think that all this grading crap is politics. ***AIR TITE*** Yes! Again, pop the air tite from the Gov't issued holder. Place the air tite (With the coin still inside) into a 2x2 plastic flip. Then do the same with the 4 other coins. Each flip gets its own Buffalo, still in its original plastic airtite. NGC charges a buck each for removal of each buffalo from each airtite. I always just hand write the amount in for my own record.-They make no mention of it on their submission forms. Good Luck.

SirSilverOzzyyzzO | 07-24-2006 02:58 PM
Re: Buffalo Coin Confusion j-son, Good luck to ya. Hope you get a 70. The hardest part will be, boxing the coins up for registered mail-NO SHINNY TAPE - NO OPENINGS SHOWING. I keep mentionong flip,flip,flip because, twice I didn't use any and they held my order up. I didn't see why I needed to place an air tite in a flip. Make sure the flips are big enough for the holders. I just order them from PCGS now-they seem to have the biggest ones(2x2's)&(Slow a_s shipping), APMEX's 2x2's barely do the trick as well. You'll be a champ by the second time around, just trying to help.

synchro | 07-25-2006 12:45 AM
Re: Buffalo Coin Confusion Question for the board: How do you know if these grading services won't do a switcher-roo on you and keep your 70 coin and mail a 69 back to you? How would you know? This whole grading thing sounds like 1) a scam 2) a ponzi to get fools to buy essentially the same wares.

Master_Ho | 07-25-2006 01:38 AM
Re: Buffalo Coin Confusion Quote:
Originally Posted by synchro (Post 309545) Question for the board: How do you know if these grading services won't do a switcher-roo on you and keep your 70 coin and mail a 69 back to you? How would you know? This whole grading thing sounds like 1) a scam 2) a ponzi to get fools to buy essentially the same wares.
You don't.........but here's what it comes down to - you want it graded, you take a chance. Neither company sells graded coins - they grade them and send them back. Frankly, when you get your car repaired - most people don't know if they replaced parts or not, most don't know if they even really did any work at all!! Same with 90% of the things we buy and get worked on - in some cases you know, in some you don't. But you can't go watch them grade them and there is no other option - so, like it or not, if you want it graded - you bite your lip and take a chance. HOWEVER - if you DON'T get it graded and decide to sell it as a collectors coin - you'll get less than a graded coin, in most cases, because people hesitate to buy non-graded coins for fear of getting ripped off......and I know lots of ripoff stories from eBay and other places - never buy a non-graded coin unless you know the seller well, or have seen the coin and know how to grade yourself! Even some of the lessor services have graded coins at MS65 or 69 that are a MS63 at best!! HOWEVER - I know lots of coin collectors and dealers who DO have an eye for grading and 90% of the time the coins come back exactly how they expected - and even in cases that they don't, I have NEVER heard any one of them even suggest a switch took place.......so while you have a valid point, its what you call a pretty safe gamble! Quote:
No, you do not send in the whole book. Pop out the ounce in it's little plastic capsule, from the book. Then place the, plastic encapsulated Buffalo ounce into a 2 x 2 flip.- Same for, Ngc & PCGS.
Not to disagree with Sir, cause I don't, but I actually sent in the book and a copy of my receipt to increase the odds of getting a First Strike on the label.......this way the graders couldn't say it was out of its holder so it had been nicked or in any way tampered with from the mint. The graders will take it out of the books anyway, but the more proof one has that its not been touched, the better the chance of a higher grade.

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