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- - Coin Grading Anecdote (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=378821)

hernancortes | 05-28-2009 10:52 PM
Coin Grading Anecdote I picked the brain of an employee of a (very) major dealer in the US. He's handling the buying of this dealer's coins and bullion, with 40 years of experience. He asked me if there was anything I'd like to see under the counter. Pulled out a few pre- 33's. I set aside the ones that looked damn nice and asked him what he think they'd grade at PCGS. Looked at the obverse, then the reverse, about 4-5 seconds each side. Not worth sending in, says he, wouldn't grade over 62. I guess for common dates, that's the threshold they have for sending coins to PCGS. What about this Saint Gaudens, looks decent. Would grade a 65, if it werent for the confounded copper spots. He tried dipping it three different times, the final time he forgot and left it in the solution for 2 hours. So, don't kid youself, ladies and germs.... COIN DOCTORING IS THE NORM. And it's done all the time without the TPG services being any the wiser in many cases. Got an old Morgan w/ brilliant luster? Excellent chance it's been dipped. Think a silver coin goes 100 years without toning? When I asked any insight he had into wear vs. a weak strike, he said... pssst... often the TPG's will let a "rub" slide if it's incidental, provided the rest of the coin makes up for it in eye appeal. Then it all made sense to me. Recently I cracked out a double eagle out of its NGC MS61 holder and sent it in to PCGS. They said AU58. What the???? But there it was, a rub, right in lady liberty's hair, plain as all get out, that NGC elected to ignore and PCGS decided to notice. I lost $$ on that one, but lesson learned. Then he let me in the vault!! Buckets and buckets of BU Morgans and Peace's, monster boxes aplenty, miscellaneous gold, K rands, Maples what have you. Total Babes in toyland fantasy:4_8_4v:

Silver Stater | 05-29-2009 12:57 PM
Re: Coin Grading Anecdote I think gold differs a lot from silver as far as being cleaned. Gold doesn't corrode or tarnish like silver does. Therefore dipping it would hardly alter the appearance - if any. Silver on the other hand does tarnish and when it's been dipped you can definitely tell. I find it hard to believe any coin dealer would dip a silver coin then send it in to be graded.

hernancortes | 05-29-2009 01:36 PM
Re: Coin Grading Anecdote According to books I've read by Q David Bowers and Scott Travers, among the numismatists heaviest hitters, a coin may be dipped "once or twice" without detection; more times than that and the microscopic wear it causes becomes evident. So the TPGs grade brilliant old coins knowing they've been dipped. Basically it's an accepted practice. Supposedly a coin will tone anew much faster after it's been dipped....which is why occasionly PCGS et al have had to buy back coins which have toned badly within their holders. Old gold coins can develop ugly carbon spots because of "bad batches" of cupro-gold alloy used to mint them, according to this coin shop fellow anyhoo. THese coins have paseed through many. many hands in the fullness of time and there's every reason to believe they've been ..well.. some would say... "tampered with"... other s might say... "attended to" or better still, "updated" or "freshened up"... lol

Bullionaire | 06-03-2009 08:51 PM
Re: Coin Grading Anecdote An old "trick" for them copper spots, did it more than a few times..... diluted nitric acid.......eats the copper does not impact the gold.....rinse and rinse when finished....ship em off....end of problem

HistoryStudent | 06-04-2009 01:45 PM
Re: Coin Grading Anecdote Don't you KNOW the coin firms mark their coins and when you switch slabbers they DING YA for their competition? (Totally kidding but I thought that the crazies would love that one.) Number 1 - Where do I buy the DIPPING stuff? Seriously, however, a MS62 ain't eactly a cheap coin in $10 & $20 gold - it sure AIN'T! Way over melt in the pre-1933s gold. :111::111::111:

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