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BullRider | 02-06-2010 04:18 AM
Pictures of fake 1927 Gaudens 6 Attachment(s) Here are some pictures of a fake 1927 Gaudens. A legit one is included for reference. The one on the left is legit, the one on the right is fake. Gaudens counterfeiters always seem to have problems with the Capitoleum buildings. This particular forgery is not very well done overall. The quality of the photos is not the best. But I thought they might be of interest to see anyway. Be careful when buying these coins! The weight on the fake is 33,58 gr (Should be 33,4 gr)

clarkth | 02-06-2010 08:07 AM
Re: Pictures of fake 1927 Gaudens Stupid question, if the fake weights only .18g more do you know what it is made of? I'm assuming it's still AU and that the fake is for the numi value.

BullRider | 02-06-2010 08:23 AM
Re: Pictures of fake 1927 Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkth (Post 2165500) Stupid question, if the fake weights only .18g more do you know what it is made of? I'm assuming it's still AU and that the fake is for the numi value.
Hi, yes it is gold. Exact composition is hard to say. It does not have any numi value, just scrap value.

gunDriller | 02-06-2010 08:23 AM
Re: Pictures of fake 1927 Gaudens is it normal for the side with the Eagle to be slightly off center like that ? besides taking way more close-up pics of the ref. Gaudens and the suspected fake, my instinct would be to use calipers to measure the inside of the rim. if it was cast (a cheaper way to make a fake) using a real Gaudens as the master mold pattern, without compensating for mold shrinkage, the inside-rim-diameter would be measurably different. that's an interesting way to hide the difference - make it off center, so it looks like an off-center strike, and the extra rim to the right of the eagle in the last pic ... well it just comes in handy for the counterfeiters. it's wierd. it sort of looks new, non-worn, BU, but it doesn't have the stamped look of a typical BU St. Gaudens.

TomD | 02-06-2010 08:50 AM
Re: Pictures of fake 1927 Gaudens If the dimensions are perfect and it weighs a bit more, then the gold content is probably higher. I think the term for this coin would be counterfeit, it would be fake if it were the wrong metal. I really don't now much about numi, what is the value of the genuine coin? How do you go about detecting the counterfeits?

BullRider | 02-06-2010 11:15 AM
Re: Pictures of fake 1927 Gaudens Yes counterfeit is a better term. I don't know how it is manufactured. (Or when or by who) It's a common year coin, nothing special really $1200 + I really like Gaudens, beautiful coins. I detect them by inspection and weighing. Also I have a couple of coin dealers that I double check with.

HistoryStudent | 02-06-2010 01:13 PM
Re: Pictures of fake 1927 Gaudens Raw coins - what a pain - that's why I buy graded NGC or PCGS - they are REALLY REALLY REALLY hard on Saints. From over a 100 coins I have had BOTH a LIBERTY DOUBLE and a SAINT come back in a BODY BAG. Both were altered surfaces. The LIBERTY I traded (because of NEWBE shock) back to the dealer from WENCE it came; but I still have the SAINT. It was a $300 investment then. I took an eraser and lightly removed the GREEN stuff from it. Under my 100 power lighted bi-scope it looks okay. I bought the scope because I bought a 1909 D Saint graded. I sent it in for a DOUBLE REDO because it was in a small ANACS slab, and my scope showed something they might have missed. I included the picture(s), too. It came back a few weeks later in the BLUE redo slab - rather NICE too - now it is AU58 D/D - DOUBLE "D!" Now that's rare!:23_30_104: So let me reEnforce (like an old COP!) that BULLRIDER herein is doing a good work to let you know you should have the tools to "play the game because for 5,000 years COIN doctors have PLAYED AGAINST you!" Thanks and my hat's OFF to YOU B U L L R I D E R :bulride::bulride::bulride::bulride::yes:

Apocalypto | 02-06-2010 01:52 PM
Re: Pictures of fake 1927 Gaudens I actually picked the one I thought was counterfeit (right) before reading your post. I must have knack for this. Best and smartest thing to do is get graded, as HS stated. That way you've already got it in the slab, graded, and ready for storage. Your mind will be at ease in terms of its quantified grade and authenticity, and at the same time you won't have to send it in for grading yourself. Also, people sometimes forget that there's a slight "premium" on older slabs. The sooner you get your coins graded and slabbed the better.

JayDubya | 02-06-2010 02:40 PM
Re: Pictures of fake 1927 Gaudens Thanks for the lesson, although this one was much easier than youre last.

gunDriller | 02-06-2010 03:11 PM
Re: Pictures of fake 1927 Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypto (Post 2165892) I actually picked the one I thought was counterfeit (right) before reading your post. I must have knack for this. Best and smartest thing to do is get graded, as HS stated. That way you've already got it in the slab, graded, and ready for storage. Your mind will be at ease in terms of its quantified grade and authenticity, and at the same time you won't have to send it in for grading yourself. Also, people sometimes forget that there's a slight "premium" on older slabs. The sooner you get your coins graded and slabbed the better.
it sounds like everyone trusts PCGS. what comes to mind is Moody's and their deliberate certification of mortgage-backed security trash as AA or AAA. it seems like the same fraud could happen at PCGS but ... since it hasn't ... makes me wish Moody's had PCGS' integrity.

BullRider | 02-07-2010 03:54 AM
Re: Pictures of fake 1927 Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypto (Post 2165892) I actually picked the one I thought was counterfeit (right) before reading your post. I must have knack for this. Best and smartest thing to do is get graded, as HS stated. That way you've already got it in the slab, graded, and ready for storage. Your mind will be at ease in terms of its quantified grade and authenticity, and at the same time you won't have to send it in for grading yourself. Also, people sometimes forget that there's a slight "premium" on older slabs. The sooner you get your coins graded and slabbed the better.
Very good points, and I would like to get some slabbed. However I am in Europe and loath to send them overseas to PCGS for grading. (costs, risk etc) My coins are not at the level where it makes too much sense, no MS candidates or rare years, but for peace of mind and convenience it would be nice to get some done. Slabbed coins are not circulating very frequently here, so I find them in raw form. Anecdote: Once I bought a "slabbed" � oz Eagle from a coin dealer, he actually broke the slab and weighed and inspected the coin before selling it to me. (It was not PCGS slab, but some other one that I did not recognize) I should have bought one when I visited Stacks.. I like cash and carry.

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