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- - All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=18302)

Obolus | 02-14-2005 09:01 PM
All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) Before I start, just for the record, I'm including myself in the 90%/40% groups, too :smile: Let's assume it gets to the point where it's time to start using those silver dimes, quarters, halves, and dollars. Who's going to accept them as being better than their clad counterparts or the greenish paper? The general populace? If the general populace knows that they are worth something now because they are real money, why isn't there more of a hue and cry for monetary reform? If they don't recognize their worth (probably more likely the case) who is to say they are going to wake up any when the time comes to start using them? This was all brought to mind by looking at the two 40% halves I got at the bank today (for anyone following the other thread, the four rolls I purchased on the way back to work from lunch yielded one more...a 1968-D) I got to thinking...if it comes down to using these, who out there is going to realize that these two particular ones (virtually identical to my 64's) are only 40%? Kinda made me start to think (haven't stopped yet, either)

AgAuGal | 02-14-2005 09:32 PM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) If you believe Ted Butler seems to me there is not enough Ag for it to be used as day to day money (at least not until more of it is mined). If it is used it's value will be well know at the time its necessary. I expect we will be trading it for what ever serves as the money of the day.

Sequoia | 02-14-2005 09:39 PM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) WTSHTF, I really think barter will be the first thing that will be the medium of exchange. Things that have a true worth will rise to the top of the wanted list. Toilet paper, .22 shells, sugar, coffee, shotgun shells just to name a few of the 100 or so items that will become "money". The problem is however, how many .22 shells does it take to buy a roll of TP? How about a 4 lb bag of sugar? Just remember, the worth of an item is what two people decide at that moment in time. The one who has it has to decide what they are willing to take for it, and the one who wants it has to decide what they are willing to give for it. If those two agree, that's the value of that item at that moment. It will not necessarily be the value tomorrow. When people have no trust left in the worthless "funny money" where else will they turn. The word will go out from people like me and you and all the others here on GIM and all those on the other PM sites. Later, after things have settled out, the silver dimes, 40% halves, silver quarters, and 90% halves will be used. It will be easier then to price things in silver rather than in other goods.

kunery | 02-14-2005 09:40 PM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) Pareto's Law (or the law of 20/80) states that -- across a wide range of applications -- 20% of the people: have 80% of the income, have 80% of the brains, do 80% of the work, engage in 80% of the planning, etc, etc. This group (or a small subset of it) is who you will be dealing with if TSHTF. If TSHTF you will not be using silver coins in the same fashion you now use tokens -- because economic life will not be like it is today. If you seek to buy, say, gasoline, you will contact a quasi-gangster (black marketeer, free marketer) who has been shrewd enough to obtain a supply of it. A person that shrewd will know very well what price he's seeking for his gas, be it in terms of gold, .999 silver, 90% silver, 40% silver, cigarettes, moonshine, services of teenage girls, etc. etc. You will NOT be dealing with plain old Gomer, down at the Stop-N-Shop, but with a highly intelligent, informed (and ruthless) businessman. Don't worry: if TSHTF there are going to be plenty of shrewd operators who know EXACTLY what PM's are, what forms they come in, and what they're worth. Such people are also going to have a pretty grim assessment of what your life is worth, too: they're not going to be fun people to deal with. To see the future, look at Berlin, 1945, or the former Soviet Union today. Life goes on -- it just goes on in a grimmer, deadlier manner than almost anyone now living in America can begin to imagine. http://www.prudentbear.com/bearschat...rt=1&sr=1&sb=1

The Argent Dragon | 02-17-2005 04:11 PM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) Quote:
Originally Posted by Obolus I got to thinking...if it comes down to using these, who out there is going to realize that these two particular ones (virtually identical to my 64's) are only 40%? Kinda made me start to think (haven't stopped yet, either)
Hmmm.....:albertein ......let's pretend we're talking about gold. Don't you think you would be well versed in these items if it was 40% gold versus 90% gold ?!?!? I mean, if you got paid in GOLD then you bust out the scales & testing equipment like the good 'ole days. Gold is counted down to the grain and if Silver ever reaches that type of yield per ounce then everyone will be 'bean' counting the percentages. :smile:

Obolus | 02-17-2005 04:46 PM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) Quote:
Originally Posted by The Argent Dragon Hmmm.....:albertein ......let's pretend we're talking about gold. Don't you think you would be well versed in these items if it was 40% gold versus 90% gold ?!?!?
Not sure how many common, ordinary folks know the gold content of our earlier eagles so I doubt they would be versed in gold either. I'm talking during the initial times following the collapse, break, crash or whatever it ends up being called. People are going to have to become very educated very quickly. I'm not sure if I fully buy into the black-market intermediaries either, considering just the extreme volume of exchanges that are going to be taking place. That's going to be an awful lot of quasi-gangsters running around facilitating trades :smile: Just look at the uncertainty of a few posts even on here as to which nickels are silver? Which halves have how much? Is the 1970 half 40% or CuNi? (It's 40% but the question has arisen even here)

The Argent Dragon | 02-18-2005 05:27 PM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) Quote:
Originally Posted by Obolus ....Just look at the uncertainty of a few posts even on here as to which nickels are silver? Which halves have how much? Is the 1970 half 40% or CuNi? (It's 40% but the question has arisen even here)
I'll take the hit on nickels. Heck, I'm the one who mentioned the 35% wartime Jeffersons in the first place. But look at the scenario : 1943 Jef. Nickel - total weight > 5 grams of which 35% is silver (1.75 gms). Okay so with 31.1 grams = troy ounce which today is $7.37 that leaves a 1943 nickel with a silver spot value of a mere 0.415 cents ~or 0.474 cents if you made a mistake of 40% silver leaving 0.06 cents on the table - whoa ! :rofl: Now if the nickels were gold then base on $427 it would be $24.03 per nickel or at 40% would be $27.46 leaving a mistake of $3.43 per coin on the table ! Big difference, ehhh ??? .....unless you like being taken by dealers & brokers the public better wise up. :adore:

Halophyte | 02-19-2005 12:28 AM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) Bi-metal coins are not Federal Reserve Notes. Believe it or not todays coins are excellent tokens for trade if SHTF. Far more so than FRNs. If there's a monetary meltdown your silver/gold coins will fetch incredable paper value as physical/digital FRNs chase collateral value. .

Maple Leaf Steve | 02-19-2005 05:43 AM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) Lets say a suitcase nuke goes off in downtown NYC this coming monday... 200,000 people end up dead and NYC is uninhabitable for the next 50 years. If this were to happen then the you know what would hit the fan in this country immediately... There would be instant mass civil disorder in this country. Panic would set in everywhere... Banks would shut down... The stock market would go tits up... Grocery Stores would be emptied out real soon... Gas Stations would be empty real soon also... Nobody would go to work... But at some time in the future, society would regather itself and there would again be order in this country. At this point in time when society has gotten back on its feet again is when Gold and Silver would really be valuable! MLS

silverharp | 04-20-2005 07:51 AM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) I have bought some 90% bags but wouldn't hold all my silver this way, is there a slight disadvantage in the bags in that a silver user can't use them directly as they would have to be melted first.

Libertarian_Guard | 04-20-2005 08:47 AM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) Silverharp Again, it�s just my opinion, but I can�t foresee any drawbacks to holding U.S. junk 90% silver as opposed to Eagles & Maples or other .999 bars & tokens. However, just for diversity, I do hold all forms of physical, with a bias towards U.S. junk silver.

KingTheoden | 06-26-2005 03:06 PM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) Quote:
Originally Posted by kunery Pareto's Law (or the law of 20/80) states that -- across a wide range of applications -- 20% of the people: have 80% of the income, have 80% of the brains, do 80% of the work, engage in 80% of the planning, etc, etc. This group (or a small subset of it) is who you will be dealing with if TSHTF. If TSHTF you will not be using silver coins in the same fashion you now use tokens -- because economic life will not be like it is today. If you seek to buy, say, gasoline, you will contact a quasi-gangster (black marketeer, free marketer) who has been shrewd enough to obtain a supply of it. A person that shrewd will know very well what price he's seeking for his gas, be it in terms of gold, .999 silver, 90% silver, 40% silver, cigarettes, moonshine, services of teenage girls, etc. etc. You will NOT be dealing with plain old Gomer, down at the Stop-N-Shop, but with a highly intelligent, informed (and ruthless) businessman. Don't worry: if TSHTF there are going to be plenty of shrewd operators who know EXACTLY what PM's are, what forms they come in, and what they're worth. Such people are also going to have a pretty grim assessment of what your life is worth, too: they're not going to be fun people to deal with. To see the future, look at Berlin, 1945, or the former Soviet Union today. Life goes on -- it just goes on in a grimmer, deadlier manner than almost anyone now living in America can begin to imagine. http://www.prudentbear.com/bearschat...rt=1&sr=1&sb=1
Flawless post. I completely agree with it and am thrilled to see that someone else shares my opinion regarding the aftermath of a fiscal implosion. Just consider how many people that you know are aggressively accumulating gold and silver. I know for me, I know only a a handful of individuals who even have the notion of collecting coins. I have tried to convince friends and family to buy silver and gold consistantly and generously. After a year, I am still the only one who has any clue what the spot value of silver or gold is; forget about even approaching the subjects of platinum or palladium. We are a minority in this. And, when we are moved from the frying pan into the fire, the majority of people will go absolutely ape and quickly spiral downward into a soup of hysterical rioting. The truly informed minority that prepared will deal with each other. The 80% you referred to will probably end up in some sort of government workforce program, dead, or in massive concentration camps (most falling into the former group). The 20% will trade on a need basis with each other. Since we will be trading things that we actually have use for (food, lumber, hammers, etc.) rather than worthless, but expensive, consumer goods, each party will have a good handle on the value of each item in a trade. Thus, silver halves, quarters, and dimes will command value. In some areas, TP might fetch more silver than in others. But that is because we will not have one giant integrated market; proximity will again matter. Essentially, we will stabilize and be a society that is much more locally based. It will eventually be the end of de facto corporate charters e.g. there will not be one or two big bookstores that span the nation because the vehicle used to achieve that today, credit, will be a distant memory. In a sense, so long as we sufficiently prepare, we do have some positive aspects to look forward to for tomorrow.

Ponce Cuba | 06-26-2005 05:06 PM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) Quote:
Originally Posted by Sequoia WTSHTF, I really think barter will be the first thing that will be the medium of exchange. Things that have a true worth will rise to the top of the wanted list. Toilet paper, .22 shells, sugar, coffee, shotgun shells just to name a few of the 100 or so items that will become "money". The problem is however, how many .22 shells does it take to buy a roll of TP? How about a 4 lb bag of sugar? Just remember, the worth of an item is what two people decide at that moment in time. The one who has it has to decide what they are willing to take for it, and the one who wants it has to decide what they are willing to give for it. If those two agree, that's the value of that item at that moment. It will not necessarily be the value tomorrow. When people have no trust left in the worthless "funny money" where else will they turn. The word will go out from people like me and you and all the others here on GIM and all those on the other PM sites. Later, after things have settled out, the silver dimes, 40% halves, silver quarters, and 90% halves will be used. It will be easier then to price things in silver rather than in other goods.
Very good , if you have something that I need and you don't need what I have then silver will be the one to decide the price of what I want. Only two items that I would never trade is ammo and toilet paper, ammo because they can use it against me and toilet paper because grass itches to much. If in the future if you want to get more favors for your bucks then go to the dollar stores and buy stuff to put away.....that's my next step.

StreetMind | 06-28-2005 09:56 PM
Re: All you 90% folks (and 40 percent'ers, too) >>Pareto's Law (or the law of 20/80) states that -- across a wide range of applications -- 20% of the people: have 80% of the income, have 80% of the brains, do 80% of the work, engage in 80% of the planning, etc, etc. This group (or a small subset of it) is who you will be dealing with if TSHTF.<< I don't completely disagree, but 80% of the other 80% will likely be desperate, and become armed and dangerous. >>WTSHTF, I really think barter will be the first thing that will be the medium of exchange. Things that have a true worth will rise to the top of the wanted list. Toilet paper, .22 shells, sugar, coffee, shotgun shells just to name a few of the 100 or so items that will become "money". The problem is however, how many .22 shells does it take to buy a roll of TP? How about a 4 lb bag of sugar? Just remember, the worth of an item is what two people decide at that moment in time. The one who has it has to decide what they are willing to take for it, and the one who wants it has to decide what they are willing to give for it. If those two agree, that's the value of that item at that moment. It will not necessarily be the value tomorrow. When people have no trust left in the worthless "funny money" where else will they turn. The word will go out from people like me and you and all the others here on GIM and all those on the other PM sites. Later, after things have settled out, the silver dimes, 40% halves, silver quarters, and 90% halves will be used.<< Again, I don't completely disagree, but, by definition, WTSHTF means to me that things will not play out in this rational sequence of events. People will come to take your stuff. Street

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