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- - How to check for a fake silver coin. (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=246290)

Punchy | 03-14-2008 12:57 AM
How to check for a fake silver coin. I know this seems like a silly question, but has anyone even ever bothered to have one of the new American Eagle Silver Dollars randomly evaluated to see if they are actually made out of real, actual silver? I no longer trust our corrupt government (call me crazy). I wouldn't put it past the U.S. Treasury/Mint to try to pull a fast one and either crank out fake silver coins or even debase the silver. In God I trust. In my government, I do not trust. Similarly; is there some way a silver coin can be checked to see if it is made out of real silver? I have seen people bite down on coins to check its genuineness, but I am not familiar with this procedure. What am I supposed to be looking for after I bite down on a silver coin? Bite marks or lack thereof? Are there other, less destructive tests that can be made, such as using a magnet or other special testing device to check to see if you are holding a real silver coin? It seems like this should be something everyone should be concerned with. How does a person know if he or she didn't just spend $10,000 on a monster box full of fake American Eagle Silver Dollars?

Martian_Time_slip | 03-14-2008 12:59 AM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. The only real way to find out is to sell it.

goldminer | 03-14-2008 04:34 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. If you're talking about bullion at the current spot I wouldn't worry about it. If you have to wonder just balance it on the tip of a finger and strike it gently but sharply on the edge with a known silver coin....or drop it on the hard surface of a counter top or table. Silver reports a distinct ringing sound, and it's heavy; very close to the density of lead which will not "ring" when it's similarly dropped or struck.

Iptuous | 03-14-2008 05:22 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. Quote:
Originally Posted by goldminer (Post 1011850) If you're talking about bullion at the current spot I wouldn't worry about it. If you have to wonder just balance it on the tip of a finger and strike it gently but sharply on the edge with a known silver coin....or drop it on the hard surface of a counter top or table. Silver reports a distinct ringing sound, and it's heavy; very close to the density of lead which will not "ring" when it's similarly dropped or struck.
for clarification on the "ring test": are you saying to rap the coin under test with a known good version of the same coin to see if they ring the same? different types of coins sound different (in pitch) than others (all silver) so i assume that is what the other (same type) coin is for.... what does the silver plated lead coin sound like? if it does not at all ring, than it seems specific density check (measure/weigh) in conjunction with ring test would be fairly conclusive, since lead is the only similar density base metal?

silverwood | 03-14-2008 05:28 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. Quote:
Originally Posted by Punchy (Post 1010734) I know this seems like a silly question, but has anyone even ever bothered to have one of the new American Eagle Silver Dollars randomly evaluated to see if they are actually made out of real, actual silver? I no longer trust our corrupt government (call me crazy). I wouldn't put it past the U.S. Treasury/Mint to try to pull a fast one and either crank out fake silver coins or even debase the silver. In God I trust. In my government, I do not trust. Similarly; is there some way a silver coin can be checked to see if it is made out of real silver? I have seen people bite down on coins to check its genuineness, but I am not familiar with this procedure. What am I supposed to be looking for after I bite down on a silver coin? Bite marks or lack thereof? Are there other, less destructive tests that can be made, such as using a magnet or other special testing device to check to see if you are holding a real silver coin? It seems like this should be something everyone should be concerned with. How does a person know if he or she didn't just spend $10,000 on a monster box full of fake American Eagle Silver Dollars?
Yes the magnet test is a sure thing. Iffn it sticks to a magnet it ain't silver. :D NO, more seriously silver's properties as and element of the periodic table(you should have been paying attention in chemistry class) are unique to it. The specific gravity can be used to determine if it is silver. Do a wikipedia search on specific gravity of silver.:smokin:

TomD | 03-14-2008 06:20 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. I think I would worry about getting hit by a meteor long before worrying about the US Mint making SAE's made of something other than silver. Really, that is not going to happen. They send silver to 100's of thousands of people, how long do you think that would go undetected even assuming that the mint people would try? There have been a number of threads on fake and counterfeit detection, do a search. If you have some scales and calipers, you are golden. BTW, you bite on gold not silver, silver isn't soft. You will break your teeth.

Raccoon | 03-14-2008 07:22 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. Refiners that melt SAEs to make delivery bars would notice it immediately.

Arnie Grape | 03-14-2008 07:45 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. Has anyone ever thought about actually calculating density like we all did back in 7th grade science? Drop the .999 silver in a graduated cylinder to find displacement in ml = cm^3, and simply weighing it on a balance to find weight in grams? (Which, an accurate enough one anyone should be able to get their hands on). Then a simple mathematical division and... there's a density reading. I mean, yes, the densities of lead and silver are close enough as you may not be able to tell by handling... but a simple test like this should easily be able to detect the nearly 1 g/cm^3 difference. Yes yes? AG

Professur | 03-14-2008 07:59 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. A graduated cylinder wide enough to take an Eagle wouldn't be accurate enough to be more accurate than just using a dial caliper and knowing the dimensions.

Raccoon | 03-14-2008 08:20 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. Using standard lab equipment, I think that you would have to use a 500 ml measuring cylinder to fit the diameter of a SAE. I don't have one here right now, but if I remember correctly those are graded in 5 ml increments. At 10.5 g/cm3, the deplacement of a SAE would be 31.1/10.5 =2.96 ml, and at 11.3 g/cm3 the volume of a LAE would be 2.75 ml (provided that the weight of the LAE was correct). That would be way to inaccurate to work.

Twisted Avatar | 03-14-2008 09:46 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. Quote:
Originally Posted by Punchy (Post 1010734) I know this seems like a silly question, but has anyone even ever bothered to have one of the new American Eagle Silver Dollars randomly evaluated to see if they are actually made out of real, actual silver? I no longer trust our corrupt government (call me crazy). I wouldn't put it past the U.S. Treasury/Mint to try to pull a fast one and either crank out fake silver coins or even debase the silver. In God I trust. In my government, I do not trust. Similarly; is there some way a silver coin can be checked to see if it is made out of real silver? I have seen people bite down on coins to check its genuineness, but I am not familiar with this procedure. What am I supposed to be looking for after I bite down on a silver coin? Bite marks or lack thereof? Are there other, less destructive tests that can be made, such as using a magnet or other special testing device to check to see if you are holding a real silver coin? It seems like this should be something everyone should be concerned with. How does a person know if he or she didn't just spend $10,000 on a monster box full of fake American Eagle Silver Dollars?
It is real funny that you mention this......cause I have been doing the ring test alot lately and for the life of me all the SAE I tapped had a low thud BUT EVERY 90% (walkers, frankin,peace,even a mecury) I tapped had that disctinct PING!!!!! I have been kinda curious.......I am going to go back to a some eagles in the early 80's and see if there is a diffrence. Anybody else had a experince like this? T

Highbanker | 03-16-2008 09:40 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. Jeez, people.....Just use the hacksaw test....Take your coin and put it in a vise....reeeaaalll tight... Then saw it in half.....If the metal on the inside looks like the metal on the outside....It's Silver!!!!

budfox | 03-16-2008 09:54 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. Quote:
Originally Posted by Highbanker (Post 1014764) Jeez, people.....Just use the hacksaw test....Take your coin and put it in a vise....reeeaaalll tight... Then saw it in half.....If the metal on the inside looks like the metal on the outside....It's Silver!!!!
Then just glue it back together?:rolleyes_m:

shooter | 03-16-2008 10:28 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. a drop of nitric acid will leave a milky spot on silver,without harm to silver. if it bubbles-it's not silver.

Silver Uno | 03-17-2008 02:08 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1012340) It is real funny that you mention this......cause I have been doing the ring test alot lately and for the life of me all the SAE I tapped had a low thud BUT EVERY 90% (walkers, frankin,peace,even a mecury) I tapped had that disctinct PING!!!!! I have been kinda curious.......I am going to go back to a some eagles in the early 80's and see if there is a diffrence. Anybody else had a experince like this? T
I have noticed the same thing. I tested the Maple, Eagle, Libertad,Onza, Balboa and a clad Ike. These are all about the same sized coin. The Ike had the most melodious tone with the Mexicans and Central Americans sounding really nice also. The Eagle had more tone than the Maple but not by much and the Maple is the purest but sounded the worst! Well, as long as my dealer who sold them to me will buy them back I guess I don't care much in how they sound! su

Martian_Time_slip | 03-18-2008 06:24 AM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. Quote:
Originally Posted by Highbanker (Post 1014764) Jeez, people.....Just use the hacksaw test....Take your coin and put it in a vise....reeeaaalll tight... Then saw it in half.....If the metal on the inside looks like the metal on the outside....It's Silver!!!!
I just did this to my MS-70 lunar series. :s9:

whiting | 03-24-2008 12:38 AM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter (Post 1014876) a drop of nitric acid will leave a milky spot on silver,without harm to silver. if it bubbles-it's not silver.
That's how I test silver scrap however I don't know if I'd recommend it for good silver coins. It does take the polish off the spot you test. Nickel silver and others can bubble, smoke, turn black or green, etc. Silver turns a milky or pinkish creamy color. The best way to see the color for yourself is to put a drop of nitric acid on something that you know is sterling. Also, if you think the item is possibly only silver plated, you need to scratch with something like a razor blade to get down to the base metal. Once you test a piece of silver, it can be professionally polished to get the spot off where you tested it, but again, I don't think I'd recommend it for coins. I do test jewelry, flatware and scrap occasionally (when it isn't marked).

Spectrism | 03-25-2008 07:19 PM
Re: How to check for a fake silver coin. I am extremely pissed off right now. I have 99% suspicion my local dealer pawned some fake SAEs on me. I thought the dull luster was odd and asked him about it. Like a novice, I trusted the guy. I found this site helpful: http://coins.about.com/od/goldrareco...coin_fraud.htm [quote]Coin Fraud - Fake Silver Coins Follow these 6 easy steps for detecting fake silver coins in general: 1. Does the silver coin look right? Any highly experienced coin authenticator will tell you that they often can't tell you why a given specimen is fake, (short of doing a full objective analysis, as explained below.) All they can say is that it doesn't "look right." Learn what the genuine silver coin looks like, and when you get that little red flag waving in your head that something looks wrong, even if you can't put your finger on exactly what is wrong, trust your senses and don't buy the coin! 2. How much does the silver coin weigh? Most fake silver coins are made from silvery metal alloys that weigh less than genuine silver. Weigh the coin in question; if the weight is wrong for the type, don't buy it! Even overweight coins are problematic, because they might be silver-plated lead. 3. How does the surface of the silver coin look? Fake silver coins may or may not have a silver-plated finish on them. Although higher-quality struck fakes might look pretty convincing if they're plated, many fakers don't even bother to plate the coin! Silver has a distinctive sheen to it that is neither too harsh nor too soft or "soapy" looking. 4. How does the silver coin's edge look? If the coin edge should be reeded, and isn't (or vice versa) this is a giant red flag, since mint errors of this type are very rare. Also, if the coin has a seam around the edge, a bit of a protrusion on the edge that could be a casting sprue, or file marks indicating a sprue or seam was removed, don't buy the coin! 5. Does the silver coin pass a magnification check? Although the methods listed above will usually enable you to rule out most fakes (especially the weight test,) sometimes close examination under a strong magnifier settles the matter. Look for silver plating that failed to fill into tiny spots and crevices. Look at the edge of the coin to see if the plating is visible where the rim meets the side; also look between the reeding. Sometimes just looking at the fields under 10x is enough to condemn the silver coin as a fake, because the fields may appear rough, or have spots of copper or other non-silver impurities. 6. Does it pass the silver coin ring test? Silver coins have a distinctive ring when held on the tip of a finger and tapped with another coin. Be careful doing this test, though; you don't want to ding or damage the coin, or drop it onto a hard surface, so use some judgement. The ring test can be helpful when all other easy methods of checking are inconclusive. UPDATE: I took my coins to another dealer who is NGC authorized. He said the coins were fine, but was curious about the few that had deep gouges that look like melt spots. He had a roll of 2007s directly from the mint that were like mine- a dull gray and sharp rim edges. They all rang same. Varying thicknesses in old coins he did not alert over. Just seems real odd to me. Anyway- I cooled my jets.

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