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ZeeBest | 05-03-2006 07:34 AM
Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins What is best investment in this current precious metal bull market? Numismatic gold coins or regular bullion coins? Three months ago I bought an MS 63 PCGS High Relief ($20 Saint Gaudens) for $26,500. Dollar for dollar gold coins has been heading north while the High relief is lagging. I'm not a collector, I'm in it for the investment value. If I had bought maples instead of the High Relief, I think I would have gain more. My dealer is currently selling it for 28K but PCGS listed it at 30K. Some Numismatic coins can go way down in value in the long run. However, it looks like we are now in a long term PM bull market.

Silver Scout | 05-03-2006 07:40 AM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeBest What is best investment in this current precious metal bull market? Numismatic gold coins or regular bullion coins? Three months ago I bought an MS 63 PCGS High Relief ($20 Saint Gaudens) for $26,500. Dollar for dollar gold coins has been heading north while the High relief is lagging. I'm not a collector, I'm in it for the investment value. If I had bought maples instead of the High Relief, I think I would have gain more. My dealer is currently selling it for 28K but PCGS listed it at 30K. Some Numismatic coins can go way down in value in the long run. However, it looks like we are now in a long term PM bull market.
holy crap dump that thing and get 40 ounces of gold BULLION! or better yet 20 oz of gold bullion and approx 1000 oz of .999 silver bullion. :afraid:

Mercury Rising | 05-03-2006 07:44 AM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Scout holy crap dump that thing and get 40 ounces of gold BULLION! or better yet 20 oz of gold bullion and approx 1000 oz of .999 silver bullion. :afraid:
Ill second that!:coolbeer:

Ardent Listener | 05-03-2006 08:10 AM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeBest What is best investment in this current precious metal bull market? Numismatic gold coins or regular bullion coins? Three months ago I bought an MS 63 PCGS High Relief ($20 Saint Gaudens) for $26,500. Dollar for dollar gold coins has been heading north while the High relief is lagging. I'm not a collector, I'm in it for the investment value. If I had bought maples instead of the High Relief, I think I would have gain more. My dealer is currently selling it for 28K but PCGS listed it at 30K. Some Numismatic coins can go way down in value in the long run. However, it looks like we are now in a long term PM bull market.
Please don't take offense to my saying this....But in my opinion, if your are not at least a collector, chances are you don't have a clue as to what you bought. I would find out what your dealer would buy it from you today for. If his bid is below $26,500 then that should tell you something.

TheKingsSon | 05-03-2006 09:08 AM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Scout dump that thing and get 40 ounces of gold BULLION! or better yet 20 oz of gold bullion and approx 1000 oz of .999 silver bullion. :afraid:
I could not agree more. I would sell that thing so fast it would make your head spin Attachment 14097

Big_Rob | 05-03-2006 09:50 AM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Scout holy crap dump that thing and get 40 ounces of gold BULLION! or better yet 20 oz of gold bullion and approx 1000 oz of .999 silver bullion. :afraid:
cosined! Thats exactly the way Id do it.

HistoryStudent | 05-03-2006 05:58 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins 90% or more silver/gold bullion; and 10% for fun Numismatics. Buy the common dated $20 gold-eagles in MS63 to MS65 numismatics. For fun.

ASG | 05-03-2006 08:08 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeBest What is best investment in this current precious metal bull market? Numismatic gold coins or regular bullion coins? Three months ago I bought an MS 63 PCGS High Relief ($20 Saint Gaudens) for $26,500. Dollar for dollar gold coins has been heading north while the High relief is lagging. I'm not a collector, I'm in it for the investment value. If I had bought maples instead of the High Relief, I think I would have gain more. My dealer is currently selling it for 28K but PCGS listed it at 30K. Some Numismatic coins can go way down in value in the long run. However, it looks like we are now in a long term PM bull market.
I love numismatic coins myself, though I can really only afford silver right now, but when you have a 28-30 thousand dollar coin: sell it! And be VERY careful you don't get ripped off! I saw something on a coin forum the other day (could of been an old thread though) that a woman found a $10,000 dollar bill in some inherited items in a safe deposit box, and the bank gave her face value for it in newer bills. Well, problem? The bill was probably worth $75,000 or more to some rich collector (though why anyone collects FRN's is beyond me) so realize the importance of dealing with a VERY honest person; when dealing with $30k it is easy for an otherwise honest person to get dishonest in the heat of the moment, you know? Check around online to see what they're selling for at various places, check coin forums, etc., before you sell it. It may be a rare coin, but consider this: you can get a LOT of gold and silver bullion AND some very nice numismatic coins for what you sell it for (for instance, a 1790's silver dollar is a wonderful coin to have...or something else along those lines.)

ASG | 05-03-2006 08:09 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins BTW: mind telling us what year the coin is?

ZeeBest | 05-03-2006 09:22 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins I just went back to Cal Numismatic Investments and sold back the coin(exchange for 1oz silver maples) . I paid $26,500 3 months ago. They wanted to give me $22,000 for the coin but I pleaded with them and since I did good business with them many times before the owner bought it back for $23,085. They did not give me any money, I agree to exchange it for 06 1oz maples. They charge me silver spot plus $1.70 premium over spot which is $15.40 a piece. The high relief coin I believe was 1907 PCGS MS 63. I now learn that it is very scary dealing with numismatic coins. I lost out the hug potential profit I could have gain, if I had used that money to buy silver maples3 months ago. Fortunately, I did bought 5700 worth of 1oz silver maples/eagles at $10.30 a piece at the same time I bought the high relief 3 months a go. So I up huge on that. When PoS hit 20 buck spot, I can recover my lost profits from buying/selling the high relief. Thanks for many of your advises. I'm glad I came out of this deal with my head still on my neck. The dealer saw how much profit I had gain on my past silver purchase that they kind of regret it. Base on my research, I was confident that silver was going to 15 buck spot so I bought a huge amount when no one was really buying it. Now the dealer's vault are almost completely empty of silver coins and bars due to the recent huge demand; deep down I could see that they regret it that I had purchase those 5700 eagles/maples so cheap 3 months ago. Just think about it, Cal Numismatic sells 50 million worth of bullion yearly and now they are close to completely out of silver coins (rounds, maples, 90% bags and eagles). They told me that the Canadian and US mint are not sending them any more and they just gave me close to there last boxes of maples. I promise them that when spot silver hit 20-25 bucks, I'll sell some back. Never again I'll deal with Numismatic coins. If silver maples/eagles continue their sizzling demand I can open up my own coin business selling my close to 7000 silver maples/eagles for some nice profits.

ASG | 05-03-2006 10:10 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeBest I just went back to Cal Numismatic Investments and sold back the coin(exchange for 1oz silver maples) . I paid $26,500 3 months ago. They wanted to give me $22,000 for the coin but I pleaded with them and since I did good business with them many times before the owner bought it back for $23,085. They did not give me any money, I agree to exchange it for 06 1oz maples. They charge me silver spot plus $1.70 premium over spot which is $15.40 a piece. The high relief coin I believe was 1907 PCGS MS 63. I now learn that it is very scary dealing with numismatic coins. I lost out the hug potential profit I could have gain, if I had used that money to buy silver maples3 months ago. Fortunately, I did bought 5700 worth of 1oz silver maples/eagles at $10.30 a piece at the same time I bought the high relief 3 months a go. So I up huge on that. When PoS hit 20 buck spot, I can recover my lost profits from buying/selling the high relief. Thanks for many of your advises. I'm glad I came out of this deal with my head still on my neck. The dealer saw how much profit I had gain on my past silver purchase that they kind of regret it. Base on my research, I was confident that silver was going to 15 buck spot so I bought a huge amount when no one was really buying it. Now the dealer's vault are almost completely empty of silver coins and bars due to the recent huge demand; deep down I could see that they regret it that I had purchase those 5700 eagles/maples so cheap 3 months ago. Just think about it, Cal Numismatic sells 50 million worth of bullion yearly and now they are close to completely out of silver coins (rounds, maples, 90% bags and eagles). They told me that the Canadian and US mint are not sending them any more and they just gave me close to there last boxes of maples. I promise them that when spot silver hit 20-25 bucks, I'll sell some back. Never again I'll deal with Numismatic coins. If silver maples/eagles continue their sizzling demand I can open up my own coin business selling my close to 7000 silver maples/eagles for some nice profits.
I think you were taken at some point in this. Probably the beginning. At coinfacts.com, they have this: " MS-63, or so with extremely hairlines barely detectable in the central portion of the eagle's wing. Ex – American Numismatic Rarities, LLC’s “The Classics Sale,” <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:DATE Month="7" Day="25" Year="2003">July 25, 2003</ST1:DATE> , Lot<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P> </O:P>806, "MCMVII (1907) Saint-Gaudens, High Relief, Wire Rim", illustrated, sold for $14,950.00" http://coinfacts.com/double_eagles/s...nt_gaudens.htm

MT Silver | 05-04-2006 03:30 AM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeBest I promise them that when spot silver hit 20-25 bucks, I'll sell some back.
This is just me venting now....the hell with them. First you lose money on the numismatic coin, then it sounds like they are making you feel guilty because silver went up in price and they sold when it was lower. That's how things go in this PM game. Prices go up and prices go down. I don't see their concern for you when they made $3,415 in 3 months buying that coin back from you. Sounds like your dealer wouldn't have given a rat's ass if the POS had gone down instead, huh? You don't owe them crap. It's business, on your end and theirs. Don't get me wrong now, I'm all about keeping a good business relationship and not burning bridges. But in this case, move on, there are better dealers out there. Good luck to you. MT Silver

ASG | 05-04-2006 08:38 AM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Silver This is just me venting now....the hell with them. First you lose money on the numismatic coin, then it sounds like they are making you feel guilty because silver went up in price and they sold when it was lower. That's how things go in this PM game. Prices go up and prices go down. I don't see their concern for you when they made $3,415 in 3 months buying that coin back from you. Sounds like your dealer wouldn't have given a rat's ass if the POS had gone down instead, huh? You don't owe them crap. It's business, on your end and theirs. Don't get me wrong now, I'm all about keeping a good business relationship and not burning bridges. But in this case, move on, there are better dealers out there. Good luck to you. MT Silver
Exactly. And, ZeeBest, you should of found a different dealer to go to.

The Argent Dragon | 05-04-2006 11:28 AM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeBest .........The high relief coin I believe was 1907 PCGS MS 63. I now learn that it is very scary dealing with numismatic coins. I lost out the hug potential profit I could have gain, if I had used that money to buy silver maples3 months ago. ............
Numismatics can be 'tricky' with most coins.......however, Numismatic GOLD coins are totally unpredictable and offer the highest losses (IMHO).:frown: Trouble is - there were several U.S. Gold coins sent over to holdings in Swiss bank accounts after 1933. Every time Gold passes the $500 mark then several of these so-called "RARE" coins re-enter the market and drive the price :thumbs do Anyways - if you've got the Extra cash laying around and still want some nice rare coins going UP, UP, UP..........may I suggest some Carson City Morgan dollars ? .....look up GSA (issued by the Gov't in the early 1970's) Dollars in the MS-64 to MS-65 range. These puppies run about $225 to $500 on average ($1000 or more for key dates) and you won't be disappointed. DON'T give up on Numismatics just because of 1 bad experience........however, I'd reduce your risk by starting "small". FWIW - the 1889-CC dollar is the MOST sought out after but you'd need to settle for a VF to EF specimen to stay under $2k.:wink:

Indy | 05-04-2006 01:39 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Not sure why you would buy a 26k coin, but that is none of my business. I play this market 50-50 half gold and half silver. Keep a little of the other metals just for fun. All my horses are in the race, I really do not care who wins, as long as they all finish the race. Mk

Jacx | 05-04-2006 02:31 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent 90% or more silver/gold bullion; and 10% for fun Numismatics. Buy the common dated $20 gold-eagles in MS63 to MS65 numismatics. For fun.
I chose to invest in $20 gold-eagles in MS63 to MS64 numismatics 8 years ago. It is only now that I am able to retrieve my investment. I still need to recapture the 35 % exchange , canadian - U.S. Hmmm..... dont know if I should "hang on" or "let go" at this time. It's a struggle. Hope I dont get hurt in my decision.:yippee:

ZeeBest | 05-04-2006 04:13 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins I invested in this $26K coin because I saw on Blanchard.com that a reputable professor wrote an article on the best investments in uncertain times such as ours. He states that High Relief is one of the coins that will gain the most for one's value. When one is dealing with bullion and in my case a lot of it, it is very difficult to find an honest dealer. I went to 2 other dealers before finding Cal Numismatic Investments. The BBB ratted them AA (highest rating). Plus when I went there I saw Karem (former Laker player) buying/selling coins. From then, I consider Cal Numistmatic as the best place to do business (indeed they are the best), but unfortunately when it comes to money 99% people turn to dishonest dealing. As most of you know the the reason most people turn big time to bullion because of the falling dollar (the dollar will become the 21 Century Peso!) and our dangerous economy. With the whole world competing in printing fiat, we currently facing rapid inflation. We are going back to Biblical times where only gold and silver will be real form of money. Some analysts believe we will suffer far worst than the 1930 CRASH and there will be rampant lawlessness and violence and the black market will flourish when these events take place. This is the reason I changed funny paper money, which governoment prints endlessly, into Gold and silver in hope to survive and flourish in our uncertain times. I encourage everyone to do the same, we must quickly accumulate the physical while still time and while its cheap. Did anyone read great books by investor Robert Kiyosaki? He wrote the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." He just wrote a very good article on investing in silver -- Link: http://www.321gold.com/ Can anyone suggest other reputable bullion dealer in Calif? I'm new to the board. Sometime I have a hard time seeing new posts. Thanks for everyones posts. May God bless you to be prosperous in this interesting times! Z

Indy | 05-04-2006 06:36 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeBest I invested in this $26K coin because I saw on Blanchard.com that a reputable professor wrote an article on the best investments in uncertain times such as ours. He states that High Relief is one of the coins that will gain the most for one's value. When one is dealing with bullion and in my case a lot of it, it is very difficult to find an honest dealer. I went to 2 other dealers before finding Cal Numismatic Investments. The BBB ratted them AA (highest rating). Plus when I went there I saw Karem (former Laker player) buying/selling coins. From then, I consider Cal Numistmatic as the best place to do business (indeed they are the best), but unfortunately when it comes to money 99% people turn to dishonest dealing. As most of you know the the reason most people turn big time to bullion because of the falling dollar (the dollar will become the 21 Century Peso!) and our dangerous economy. With the whole world competing in printing fiat, we currently facing rapid inflation. We are going back to Biblical times where only gold and silver will be real form of money. Some analysts believe we will suffer far worst than the 1930 CRASH and there will be rampant lawlessness and violence and the black market will flourish when these events take place. This is the reason I changed funny paper money, which governoment prints endlessly, into Gold and silver in hope to survive and flourish in our uncertain times. I encourage everyone to do the same, we must quickly accumulate the physical while still time and while its cheap. Did anyone read great books by investor Robert Kiyosaki? He wrote the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." He just wrote a very good article on investing in silver -- Link: http://www.321gold.com/ Can anyone suggest other reputable bullion dealer in Calif? I'm new to the board. Sometime I have a hard time seeing new posts. Thanks for everyones posts. May God bless you to be prosperous in this interesting times! Z
Sounds like the dealer is not the problem, what you bought from the dealer is the problem. Don't expect the dealer to save you from yourself. Your preaching to the choir about investing in gold and silver, we all know fiat currency will soon be worthless. I have done much business with CNI and never once has anyone motioned buying a high relief coin or any other coin for 26k for that matter. Picked up a fair amount of my silver from CNI over the years.

Orwell Huxley | 05-04-2006 07:26 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeBest Can anyone suggest other reputable bullion dealer in Calif?
http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html - Many on this board will vouch for Tulving. I'd personally trust him with any amount of money.

ZeeBest | 05-04-2006 07:36 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Please let me make it clear. CNI is the best bullion dealer in US. But I will never buy expensive numismatic coins again because buy/sell prices are way inconsistance even though grading is universal (talking PCGS; the best grading service). I have recomended CNI to some of my high roller friends and they have bought lots of bullion there and continue to do so (myself included). Despite the negative experience (due to my own fault), I maintain a good relationship with the dealer, however I will look for other sources to buy/sell my bullion in the future in order to compare prices. I'm glade everyone on this board are into buying the physical (most put 90% in stocks; problem is that MM keep on manipulating the market); I can't help preaching about buying physical because the MM kept nake shorting silver, though the fact is that silver is currently in a severe deficit and now many coin dealer's vaults are at empty. I'm not a doom and gloomer, but Im confident that it is going to be some very dangerous times approaching in the big cities of US due to huge personal debts, immigration, and current political situation in US. Most of you perhaps watch the movie "Lord of War." Well, I believe if economy tank black market and violent will flourish in US for sure. I lived through the LA riot, and it will be just like that but all over every big cities of US. I don't want to debate, just look at the price of bullion. If it keeps on raising you will eventually see what I stated come to past. This is all base on research and facts. One thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history. Z

synchro | 05-07-2006 12:06 AM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeeBest Please let me make it clear. CNI is the best bullion dealer in US. But I will never buy expensive numismatic coins again because buy/sell prices are way inconsistance even though grading is universal (talking PCGS; the best grading service). I have recomended CNI to some of my high roller friends and they have bought lots of bullion there and continue to do so (myself included). Despite the negative experience (due to my own fault), I maintain a good relationship with the dealer, however I will look for other sources to buy/sell my bullion in the future in order to compare prices. I'm glade everyone on this board are into buying the physical (most put 90% in stocks; problem is that MM keep on manipulating the market); I can't help preaching about buying physical because the MM kept nake shorting silver, though the fact is that silver is currently in a severe deficit and now many coin dealer's vaults are at empty. I'm not a doom and gloomer, but Im confident that it is going to be some very dangerous times approaching in the big cities of US due to huge personal debts, immigration, and current political situation in US. Most of you perhaps watch the movie "Lord of War." Well, I believe if economy tank black market and violent will flourish in US for sure. I lived through the LA riot, and it will be just like that but all over every big cities of US. I don't want to debate, just look at the price of bullion. If it keeps on raising you will eventually see what I stated come to past. This is all base on research and facts. One thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history. Z
ZeeBest, I'm sorry to see that you had an aweful numismatic experience. In my opinion, numismatics should be something that is a hobby that you derive personal/non-monetary satisfaction out of. I have a couple dealings w/ CNI through mail order, and I found them to be reliable and prompt -- though their phone order-taking is no nonsense -- don't expect a lot of hand-holding or advice -- it's strictly business and nonpersonal. The other PM dealer I like is Arizona Only-Gold's Richard Smith, who is a little more willing to chat on the phone w/ your questions, but they tend to deal w/ large lots mail order. But judging from the fact that you're willing to shell out $26K for a coin, you should be the right kind of customers that Only-Gold caters to. Wrt to Robert Kiyosaki, there's something about the guy that I don't like -- such as I'm not really sure if he's telling the truth w/ his personal experiences. The whiff of disingenousness turns me off. I trust Richard Russell and Marc Faber, however.

Katie88 | 05-10-2006 02:38 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins I'm still pretty new to bullion collecting, but, wouldn't spending that 26k on a variety of gold and silver bullion rather then banking on just one coin be wise? That way you could sell one or 2 pieces at a time as needed instead of hoping that someone would have 26k or more to buy the one coin. That's alot of money! Katie

Waypoint-Trading | 05-10-2006 02:52 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Quote:
Originally Posted by ASG I think you were taken at some point in this. Probably the beginning.
My take exactly. CNI has been honest and fair with me, and I expect they did you a favor by taking the coin at a fair price.

madhu | 05-10-2006 03:51 PM
Re: Numismatic vs. Regular Bullion coins Re CNI This store is in manchester , losangeles area. They have a wide variety of metals and coin selection. The managers there are very very rude and insulting and i am glad somebody has brought this out. They think they are the only store and disrespect customers. I have bought 1908 saint guardens ms65 for $1750. i dont plan to sell it. This is pcgs and ngc certified. I saw an indian gold dealer in singapore who had a bunch of double eagles, he wanted 850$ for each when the price of gold was 600$. however i did not buy it because they were not pcgs or ngc certified. I would not go near huge premium coins because i dont know much about them

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