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- - Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=318428)

nickelless | 11-02-2008 04:33 AM
Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Several of us got into a discussion on another board about whether the U.S. government might try to call for private citizens to turn in their gold for fiat currency as the economy heads toward hyperinflation. Some of us were also wondering if the feds would try to do the same thing with silver. I can see the feds possibly trying this with gold, but for the life of me I can't see why the government would want our silver because of its minuscule market value relative to gold...unless they'd try to collect it all for more insidious reasons such as forcing citizens to give up everything such as PMs to bolster the government's finances and then give us new worthless currency. Any thoughts?

Ronnie Mexico | 11-02-2008 04:37 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Nope. We've had this discussion a dozen times already. Even if the Feds managed to confiscate all physical gold in the entire world, it would not make a difference.

nickelless | 11-02-2008 04:39 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? It might not make a difference, but that wouldn't stop the feds from doing stupid, destructive things because they can. The past eight years are ample evidence. I'm just trying to figure out what arguments they might try to use IF they decided that having PM to back a new currency was the only hope to shore up the economy.

rodzm | 11-02-2008 06:16 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Calling in PM's especially silver is about as possible as the US implementing the Amero. No way in hell

nickelless | 11-02-2008 06:43 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by rodzm (Post 1392151) Calling in PM's especially silver is about as possible as the US implementing the Amero. No way in hell
Didn't most of us think the same thing about the $700 billion "bailout"?

rodzm | 11-02-2008 06:53 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelless (Post 1392160) Didn't most of us think the same thing about the $700 billion "bailout"?
Actually I know of many people who had no doubts that the bailout was gonna happen. It happened with Bear Stearns and JP Morgan purchasing it with government funds...oh did I forget to mention the Washington Mutual criminally, I mean federally assisted takeover? Cutting interest rates can only do so much, unfortunately Wall Street runs our economy. You let Wall Street fail, the entire economy crashes...its an unfortunate thing but we, as citizens have no choice, our choice is to protect our personal economy with rather safe proof assetts such as PM's. I guess there is a slight posibility for calling in Gold but not so much for Silver

immanti | 11-02-2008 06:54 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelless (Post 1392107) It might not make a difference, but that wouldn't stop the feds from doing stupid, destructive things because they can. The past eight years are ample evidence. I'm just trying to figure out what arguments they might try to use IF they decided that having PM to back a new currency was the only hope to shore up the economy.
Not as unlikely a scenario as it may seem, imo. As to the arguments, all they have to say is that the "terrists" are using gold to finance their operations anonymously, or to subvert the financial system, or any other idiocy they can think of. Most people don't own gold, most people won't give a dang.

Chris_Is_Here | 11-02-2008 07:17 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? They can try - they won't get mine.....I'll die before I give it to those liberal bastards...and I'm not kidding...I keep my guns and my PM's in the same place for a reason

Silver Shield | 11-02-2008 07:22 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Wouldnt matter to me I gambled mine away with some Russian poker players.

Ronnie Mexico | 11-02-2008 07:32 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelless (Post 1392160) Didn't most of us think the same thing about the $700 billion "bailout"?
I said the first attempt would fail to pass. Round two: done deal. Yes, it was rejected at first. Why? Because the deal wasn't sweet enough for many politicians. It was gonna be accepted no matter the cost.

AlphaNumericus | 11-02-2008 07:58 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Mexico (Post 1392105) Nope. We've had this discussion a dozen times already. Even if the Feds managed to confiscate all physical gold in the entire world, it would not make a difference.
If the feds only did intelligent, rational things that made a difference for the better... then surely they wouldn't be doing a lot of the stuff they're already doing. Just look at Argentina - the president, Mrs. Kirschner, the political equivalent of Hillary Clinton and Obongo, just confiscated their equivalent of 401K / IRAs (private pension funds). I wouldn't be surprised if Obongo's administration confiscates PMs not to make things better but to "punish the greedy whitey".

ruprick | 11-02-2008 08:04 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? If I had to, I'd haul/smuggle mine to Canada....only 50 miles away. Got bank accounts last year....no SS# required.

rodzm | 11-02-2008 08:13 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Im a US citizen living in Germany if SHTF and the feds call in all PM's Ill be really safe. I doubt the fed will want my gold or silver or go through the hassle of taking a long flight to get it :565:

Saul Mine | 11-02-2008 08:42 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? There is always a chance that someone will steal your PMs. The punk down the street is a lot more likely to try than the government. The effect is the same, and the preventive measures are the same.

Mined Games | 11-02-2008 10:29 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Feds outlawed the possession of weed. How did that work out for them?:biggrin:

naccarato | 11-02-2008 11:05 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelless (Post 1392160) Didn't most of us think the same thing about the $700 billion "bailout"?
1. Wasn't a bailout. It was a stick up! 2. Gold was confiscated in '33 because it was the all important monetary base back then. 3. Today Federal Reserve Notes are the monetary base. 4. End

ohioarmedneutrality | 11-02-2008 09:51 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Though the feds might not target precious metals specifically, if the economy keeps spinning down the bowl, I could see them target "hoarders" - you know, those "greedy" people who foolishly tried to stock up on precious metals, firearms, ammunition, food, toiletries, medicines, fuel, and other tangibles. These selfish hoarders, who obviously don't love their country, might be forced to "share" their assets with the less fortunate. Naturally, govt agents will act as intermediaries to make sure the goods are fairly distributed. Sort of like what some U.N. "peacekeepers" do in third-world countries today when they aren't raping women and children.

lhslancers | 11-02-2008 10:29 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? I doubt they will try to confiscate but I wouldn't rule out a large windfall profits tax on metals.

Horn | 11-02-2008 10:43 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? I'll say outlawing electronic trade of such, after many dollars are laundered thru the middle east.

Sparky | 11-02-2008 11:25 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by lhslancers (Post 1393370) I doubt they will try to confiscate but I wouldn't rule out a large windfall profits tax on metals.
This is much more realistic than confiscation. Here's the condensed list of why confiscation is extremely unlikely: 1) It would be a public admission that gold is the asset of last resort, and that the fiat system is unreliable. 2) The government has been selling gold as an investment for 20+ years, and it would be political suicide to renege on that. 3) Unlike 1933, most people don't have any. Those that do are very unlikely to voluntarily surrender it. They gonna search 100 million homes? I don't think so. 4) The 1933 confiscation took us off the gold standard so that they could manage the money supply as they pleased. Gold is no longer an impediment to that.

nickelless | 11-02-2008 11:54 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by lhslancers (Post 1393370) I doubt they will try to confiscate but I wouldn't rule out a large windfall profits tax on metals.
But for them to determine "windfall profits," they would have to know how much we bought the PM for. I'm not about to divulge how much I'm paying or who I'm buying from, much less keep a written record of what I pay, so how could the feds determine whether windfall profits are being had? It's so much easier to do with, say, oil because the production costs can be traced from extraction to point of sale at the pump, but how are they going to know if we're selling "too high" relative to the price we bought at when no record of the buying price exists?

Argentsum | 11-02-2008 11:58 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Since the dollar is no longer backed by gold there is no reason to confiscate gold. OTOH, if there was a move to back the currency with gold then IRS agents would carry dental pliers....

rodzm | 11-03-2008 05:21 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentsum (Post 1393489) Since the dollar is no longer backed by gold there is no reason to confiscate gold. OTOH, if there was a move to back the currency with gold then IRS agents would carry dental pliers....
And then citizens would be carrying lead with them :banana:

goldminer | 11-03-2008 06:09 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? "...Calling in PM's especially silver is about as possible as the US implementing the Amero. No way in hell." I believe government can and and will use government power to do anything it wants. This includes declaring both gold and silver strategic metals and making private ownership in general illegal. And I believe with the Socialists and Marxists in the majority in congress and Socialist Obama in the White House, anything leftist is possible (and many things probably), including ushering in an Amero, particularly when a newly valued currency of sorts is going to be needed in a few years anyway.

lhslancers | 11-03-2008 06:17 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelless (Post 1393483) But for them to determine "windfall profits," they would have to know how much we bought the PM for. I'm not about to divulge how much I'm paying or who I'm buying from, much less keep a written record of what I pay, so how could the feds determine whether windfall profits are being had? It's so much easier to do with, say, oil because the production costs can be traced from extraction to point of sale at the pump, but how are they going to know if we're selling "too high" relative to the price we bought at when no record of the buying price exists?
Then your cost basis is 0 unless you can prove otherwise. Don't fock with the falcon if ya can't fly. They ain't playin'.

make_mine_real | 11-03-2008 06:17 AM
Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Yes.Yes.Yes.Yes.

Kyler | 11-03-2008 06:28 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by Argentsum (Post 1393489) Since the dollar is no longer backed by gold there is no reason to confiscate gold.
That is exactly right, the confiscation in the 30's was explained as an attempt to add financial liquidity, the government needed the gold in order to print more money. Now our money has no Gold backing, so there would not be the same incentive as there was in 1933. But as they say, anything is possible :bear_thumb:

The Great Ag | 11-03-2008 04:07 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? No is the correct response, and yes this topic has been covered a lot. The best I can say is that it will be heavily taxed when sold, say 15%, regardless of what you bought it for, call it a PM tax on gold, silver, platinum and palladium. No need to tax the base metals yet. The reason for gold confiscation was twofold. 1. Public money is not taxable, whereas private money is, i.e. federal income tax is a service fee for using the fed's funny money. To remove public money and replace it with private money is a major coup. 2. Relating to one, with the fed pumping out paper dollars and the mint continued to mint gold coins at par value, i.e. a gold eagle $10 coin was equivalent to a 10 FRN in terms of purchasing power. It was not long before TOO MUCH paper made the metal content worth more than the face value, just like our lincoln cents and nickels. If the gold WAS NOT voluntarily turned in by US citizens, Gresham's law would take effect and the people would not spend the gold coins, preferring to save them for a rainy day. Since gold was actually worth more than face value, the gov't convinced the people to turn in their gold, before they found out, for paper. The gov't made a nice profit! I would not worry about gold confiscation, there are more sophisticated ways of getting money from the people. I would worry about 401K confiscation, increased taxes for fossil fuel use. . .etc. Taxing PMs will be a fallback position. In China there is already some use of RFID paper money. Things are changing very fast. Gotta keep your eyes open. BTW, do NOT HOARD gold! At some point in time all "PM hoarders" will be forced to turnover their PMs. However, SAVING PMs is a different story. For example, the money in your saving's account, is that hording? The Great Ag

make_mine_real | 11-03-2008 04:24 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Great AG: I was saying 'Yes' in response to "Any chance the feds will try to call in PM".:signs14: Your reasoning vs. my silliness. :bath: There's always a chance. :tongue_ma:

The Great Ag | 11-03-2008 04:44 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by make_mine_real (Post 1394649) Great AG: I was saying 'Yes' in response to "Any chance the feds will try to call in PM".:signs14: Your reasoning vs. my silliness. :bath: There's always a chance. :tongue_ma:
Hey, Make_mine_real: I was not directing my response to you. I still cannot see, at least in our lifetimes, a situation SO drastic the feds will call in the gold. Legally they must offer something in exchange for it. If they offer the 42FRNs per ounce, as is in the code, I suspect many people would NOT voluntarily offer their gold at such a reduced price. Instead, a HUGE black market would open up. Perhaps holding gold would be deemed "illegal." If that was the case, as it was in 1933, what about gold jewelry? It was only illegal for gold coins. I really cannot forsee the gov't confiscating gold, except as a last dying act. Again I do not see this happening in our lifetimes. Is there a possibility? Sure, but there is also a possibility, no matter how small, of an asteroid smacking onto the earth next year. Technically, yes you are correct, but I am splitting hairs over language, which drives my wife nuts! There you go. The Great ag

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Gold & Silver Forum - Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933?

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- - Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=318428)

cosmolothrentas | 11-03-2008 09:41 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelless (Post 1392107) It might not make a difference, but that wouldn't stop the feds from doing stupid, destructive things because they can. The past eight years are ample evidence. I'm just trying to figure out what arguments they might try to use IF they decided that having PM to back a new currency was the only hope to shore up the economy.
Yup. There is and will be a LOT of gold in safe deposit boxes. "According to in-house memos now circulating, the DHS has issued orders to banks across America which announce to them that "under the Patriot Act" (whatever that crap means) the DHS has the absolute right to seize, without any warrant whatsoever, any and all customer bank accounts, to make "periodic and unannounced" visits to any bank to open and inspect the contents of "selected safe deposit boxes." Further, these boxes, taken from a DHS list of people who are considered "hostile to the present government, citizens who have visited outside the United States before or after 9/11 to countries now considered to be hostile to this country" " :Russia, Peoples Republic of China, Mexico, Guatemala, Spain, Italy, Egypt, France, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Turkey or the Sudan" or any citizen who has a bank account in any of those listed countries are considered to be of legitimate interest in the "ongoing investigations into foreign and domestic terrorism." Further, the DHA "shall, at the discretion of the agent supervising the search, remove, photograph or seize as evidence" any of the following items"bar gold, gold coins, firearms of any kind unless manufactured prior to 1878, documents such as passports or foreign bank account records, pornography or any material that, in the opinion of the agent, shall be deemed of to be of a contraband nature." DHS memos also state that banks are informed that any bank employee, on any level, that releases "improper" "classified DHS Security information" to any member of the public, to include the customers whose boxes have been clandestinely opened and inspected and "any other party, to include members of the media" and further "that the posting of any such information on the internet will be grounds for the immediate termination of the said employee or employees and their prosecution under the Patriot Act." Currently, the two major targets of these completely illegal and warrantless searches and seizures, are the California-based Bank of America and the Compass Bank. The former is one of the largest banks in the United States and Compass Bank ( Compass Bancshares, Inc). is a $30.1 billion Southwestern financial holding company which operates 385 full-service banking centers including 139 in Texas, 89 in Alabama, 73 in Arizona, 42 in Florida, 32 in Colorado and 10 in New Mexico. Of extraordinary interest to the DHS are Bank of America records relating to their Bank Of America <>'SafeSend Money to Mexico'<> program. It should be noted that the DHS states that "in the event that the owners of these confiscated objects do not file an administrative complaint within three (3) months subsequent to said confiscation, the aforesaid items shall pass to the permanent custody of the DHS" Isn't that wonderful? You and your wife are visiting relatives in France, Uncle Einar's $100,000 collection of gold coins is lifted out of your box and you don't get back to the United States for two months and don't check your looted box for another four months. My, some nice DHS person, or maybe two, has a nice new BMW to show off to his neighbors. Tough luck, Uncle Einar! Oh, and you might like to know that the spate of "robberies" of bank credit card and personal data that took place in and around February of 2005, were not robberies at all. The DHS, using its muscle, simply went off with trucks full of data to mine at their leisure. The banks involved said nothing, and will say nothing. If they do, their people will be at a nice Federal country club, making shoes for the Army while the DHS bosses, to include the FEMA thieves, will be buying property on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills or Palm Desert. Or some nice marina like Marine del Ray to keep their nice new 150' yacht. To date, in California alone (the only report I have seen) over 1,500 banks have been "visited" and boxes rifled between January, 2005 and January, 2006." originally found at Rense.com

The Great Ag | 11-04-2008 10:34 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
"According to in-house memos now circulating, the DHS has issued orders to banks across America which announce to them that "under the Patriot Act" (whatever that crap means) the DHS has the absolute right to seize, without any warrant whatsoever, any and all customer bank accounts, to make "periodic and unannounced" visits to any bank to open and inspect the contents of "selected safe deposit boxes."
BS, I say. Atleast as it pertains to my bank. Two keys are needed to open ANY safety deposit box. My key and the bank's key. I have the only copies to the box. If I lose them, I will have to pay for a locksmith to get me in. If DHS or anyother alphabet agency wants to get in, they will need a court order to break into the box. Anything less than that and I can sue them for big bucks. I do not think DHS will be doing unannounced inspecitons of deposit boxes. The Great Ag

Argentsum | 11-04-2008 11:01 AM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? I'd like to caveat my previous post in that there is another scenario that is far more likely. If you find yourself on the wrong side of the government (taxes, lawsuits, etc.) then you may find the government confiscating your PMs on an entirely personal level. Asset seizure does happen. They've been known to seize diaries in an attempt to trace what you got. Its one of the reasons I believe that gold will eventually become illegal to own. Its too easy to hide a great deal of wealth from the government. Its either outlaw gold or outlaw shovels.

Mined Games | 11-04-2008 08:08 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 1396164) BS, I say. Atleast as it pertains to my bank. Two keys are needed to open ANY safety deposit box. My key and the bank's key. I have the only copies to the box. If I lose them, I will have to pay for a locksmith to get me in. If DHS or anyother alphabet agency wants to get in, they will need a court order to break into the box. Anything less than that and I can sue them for big bucks. I do not think DHS will be doing unannounced inspecitons of deposit boxes. The Great Ag
They already have all the authority they need via the Patriot Act. You're fooling yourself if you think safe deposit boxes are beyond their reach. No probable cause is even required. This was done recently in England, and it can be done here. You're talking about a government that routinely seizes large amounts of cash from private citizens without any evidence of criminality being linked to the cash.

immanti | 11-04-2008 08:47 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by Mined Games (Post 1397401) They already have all the authority they need via the Patriot Act. You're fooling yourself if you think safe deposit boxes are beyond their reach. No probable cause is even required. This was done recently in England, and it can be done here. You're talking about a government that routinely seizes large amounts of cash from private citizens without any evidence of criminality being linked to the cash.
Sadly, this is true. It's been years since someone had to be found guilty of a crime in the US before the gov could take their property. Back before the war on drugs and all that nonsense. But regardless of that, if all they need to bust the lock and get into any safety deposit box is a locksmith, then all they need is a few bucks to pay the locksmith. Seems like an awful lot of trust to put in some unknown locksmith. Then again, it seems like an awful lot of trust to put in some banker. No one has guaranteed access to any bank, so even before anyone calls a locksmith, if the bank chooses to close its doors for a few days or weeks just when you need it to be open so you can get to your box, you're SOL, key or no key.

The Great Ag | 11-05-2008 02:57 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by Mined Games (Post 1397401) They already have all the authority they need via the Patriot Act. You're fooling yourself if you think safe deposit boxes are beyond their reach. No probable cause is even required. This was done recently in England, and it can be done here. You're talking about a government that routinely seizes large amounts of cash from private citizens without any evidence of criminality being linked to the cash.
I am not saying they cannot do it. All I am saying is, for my bank, they would need to drill through the locks to get inside. If they did that to me, I would treat that as breaking and entering w/out permission (either mine or a court of competent jurisdiction) and would prosecute accordingly. Whenever the gov't enters the private realm, it sheds its sovreignty. The Great Ag

Jack London | 11-05-2008 03:10 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Sorry to respond to the original post so late, but I will say that gold will not be confiscated because unlike in 1933, the powers that be didn't have most of the gold. Now they do, as they stole most of it in '33. (I believe it was Roosevelt's first action upon taking office to declare the bank holiday and order the gold confiscation.) They won't confiscate gold because they already own or control most of it. And they won't confiscate silver as it is unnecessary without gold, as up until 1964 silver was still money. They never took it away, they just drove it out of circulation with worse money.

Waylon | 11-05-2008 03:31 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? I think if it was ever to happen, it would be someone like Obama doing it for the greater good with his supporters mindlessly cheering him on and telling the feds the addresses of those they think own it (those same folks you tried to help to understand what is happening with our government ... remember them?).

Twisted Avatar | 11-05-2008 03:49 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Is_Here (Post 1392180) They can try - they won't get mine.....I'll die before I give it to those liberal bastards...and I'm not kidding...I keep my guns and my PM's in the same place for a reason
:applause_:applause_:applause_:applause_:applause_ :applause_:applause_:applause_

azxcvbnm321 | 11-06-2008 03:32 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 1399533) I am not saying they cannot do it. All I am saying is, for my bank, they would need to drill through the locks to get inside. If they did that to me, I would treat that as breaking and entering w/out permission (either mine or a court of competent jurisdiction) and would prosecute accordingly. Whenever the gov't enters the private realm, it sheds its sovreignty. The Great Ag
Sorry Great Ag, but once Congress passes a law that requires banks to seize gold, and "compensate" the holder with equivalent value in FRNs, then you have no case. A judge would say you were compensated and paid in full. Even if you somehow "won" your court case, all the court can do is reward you damages payable in FRNs. Since your damages will be in FRNs, it's all the same to the people who want to seize your gold. They have your gold and will gladly give you FRNs at spot price, which courts will have to rule as fair compensation. You have no case.

MystryBox | 11-06-2008 04:16 PM
Re: Any chance the feds will try to call in PM like in 1933? No, because the vast majority of people don't own gold anymore. If it comes to it that the gov't will confiscate what the people do have... retirement/pension plans just they did in Argentina.

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