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- - American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=318926)

opencurrency | 11-03-2008 10:13 PM
American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... 4 Attachment(s) Okay, so here's a great story for you: My name is Rob Gray, and I'm a "Regional Currency Officer" in Dallas for the Liberty Dollar. I've been with the Liberty Dollar for a while, and although I love the idea, LD needs a few improvements. After trying without success to improve the organization, I decided to set out on my own. Upon doing so, I discovered that quite a few other people came to similar conclusions and are also "going it alone". It became clear that our group of alternative currencies needs some alignment, and so I started the American Open Currency Standard (AOCS - www.opencurrency.com). Long story short, my new Private Currency is called "The NeoCoins". It's designed to pay tribute to some of our present administration's MVP's, and I call the first set the "Allies of Evil". The website will be online later this week (www.theneocoins.com). In the meantime, I'm sponsoring "bulk orders" of these coins, and also coins for the John Galt LibreCoin, and the first issuance of currency from the Free Lakota Bank (images attached). The purpose of the bulk order is to get a better price (premiums) for silver; essentially, if we hit 1500oz for the order, the premium drops to $4.25. That's why I'm inviting you to join. I'll be placing an order this Friday (11/7/08) at noon Central time. The order will be for all of the attached pieces, so you are welcome to specify which coin you want and mix/match. Each is 1oz of .999 fine silver and is AOCS approved, meaning that they can be exchanged with any of the thousands of Liberty Dollar merchants across the country. If you want to be included in this purchase, my terms are as follows: 1) Must have cash or wire transfer in hand prior to lock-in. I will not include any participants that do not send payment. PayPal / CC is okay, but please note that a 3% fee will be deducted for cc charges. 2) Minimum order is 20oz. 3) The cost for EACH COIN is the spot price of silver (calculated at lock-in) plus $5.25 for fabrication, shipping and insurance. The best way to participate is to set a budget based on an estimate of Friday's silver price (we'll guess $10.50), add the fee and multiply by the number of ounces you want. For example, if you want 20oz, add $10.50 plus $5.25 = $15.75 x 20 = $315. If you choose to pay with paypal / cc, add 3% (or about $10) to the total. If silver is less than our estimate, I will either refund to you the difference or purchase additional silver (your call). 4) Orders of 100oz or more will ship direct from the mint to you, while less than 100oz will ship to me and I'll forward to you. 5) Delivery is about 4 weeks from purchase date. Silver is REALLY hard to come by these days, and this is about as good as you can get at a reasonable premium. 1oz rounds on ebay sell for about 2x spot! Just so you know, I've done this several times so far with the Ron Paul meetup group in Dallas with great success. I'm happy to forward references, or you can check with the RP meetup organizer from Dallas or Fort Worth regarding my credibility. Please contact me offlist to be included. Rob Gray rgray@dallas.libertydollar.org 972.872.5499

Brent H | 11-03-2008 11:34 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Most of us here know what "seignorage" is and aren't going to fall for your "move up" scam.

Horn | 11-03-2008 11:40 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Nice coins.

opencurrency | 11-03-2008 11:44 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Seigniorage "is the net revenue derived from the issuing of currency. Seigniorage derived from coins arises from the difference between the face value of a coin and the cost of producing, distributing and eventually retiring it from circulation. The face value of these coins is "FIFTY", and I'm offering them at ~$15. What's the scam again?

Brent H | 11-03-2008 11:45 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Quote:
The face value of these coins is "FIFTY", and I'm offering them at ~$15. What's the scam again?
Your question answers itself.

Gcubed | 11-03-2008 11:49 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Quote:
Originally Posted by opencurrency (Post 1395601) Seigniorage "is the net revenue derived from the issuing of currency. Seigniorage derived from coins arises from the difference between the face value of a coin and the cost of producing, distributing and eventually retiring it from circulation. The face value of these coins is "FIFTY", and I'm offering them at ~$15. What's the scam again?
"FIFTY" what? I don't think you can call them Dollars or the Feds may pay you a visit. Yup, I smell "scam" too.

Brent H | 11-03-2008 11:58 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Quote:
"FIFTY" what? I don't think you can call them Dollars or the Feds may pay you a visit. Yup, I smell "scam" too.
There's two parts to the scam. The seller is hoping that you will pay $15 in exchange for an opportunity to find someone dumb enough to give you $50 in FRNs in exchange for the coin. The seller will then offer you the opportunity to change trade coins with them for different face values (for a fee of course) in response to inflation. http://www.opencurrency.com/valuation.php

silverblood | 11-04-2008 12:11 AM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... The artwork is nice. Are those actual coins, or artist's renderings? Are they enameled? The price seems fair for coins that commemorate the "Allies of Evil" (nice twist there; I like it).

Mujahideen | 11-04-2008 12:51 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... This is nice but why try to scam people with 'fifty'? This gives the impression that someone is trying to be misleading somehow.

jedemdasseine | 11-04-2008 12:58 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Not impressed: topical designs and a mysterious "fifty."

Mujahideen | 11-04-2008 01:02 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Now if it were to say 'tree fitty' and had a picture of the lochness monster, that would be kick ass

Gcubed | 11-04-2008 01:04 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Have the dies been made or is this going to be a hope and pray you get delivery deal? Just have bad feelings about this.

RossL | 11-04-2008 01:19 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... have you gotten any actual orders for the Bush and Cheney coins?

eyeofliberty | 11-04-2008 01:34 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... As you can see from the responses so far, you're not gonna get much support with this here. If you can find the Liberty Dollar threads here using 'Search', you'll get the drift. Drop the face value ($50, really?), offer them as bullion coins at bullion prices, and I'd buy some. I like the Lakota and Libre versions. Phoenix Dollar got it right by avoiding the face value, but it was a non-starter.

specsaregood | 11-04-2008 01:44 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeofliberty (Post 1396598) Drop the face value ($50, really?), offer them as bullion coins at bullion prices, and I'd buy some. I like the Lakota and Libre versions.
Yeah, that about sums it up.

silverblood | 11-04-2008 02:09 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... What do you guys think is the scam here? It doesn't say fifty dollars. It says "fifty". Somethings... The SAE says one dollar on it, but we know it isn't worth a dollar. The GAE says fifty dollars on it, but we know it isn't worth fifty dollars. These coins say "fifty" on them. It's supposed to be a competing private currency, so I guess the "fifty" relates to whatever an ounce of silver can buy.

RossL | 11-04-2008 02:18 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblood (Post 1396692) The SAE says one dollar on it, but we know it isn't worth a dollar.
The SAE is a dollar. It's the paper that isn't worth a SAE.

Brent H | 11-04-2008 03:06 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... A literal reading of the message on the coin is "FIFTY ONE OUNCE .999 FINE SILVER". I wonder how much these coins actually weigh?

silverblood | 11-04-2008 03:14 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Quote:
Originally Posted by RossL (Post 1396704) The SAE is a dollar. It's the paper that isn't worth a SAE.
Go to the grocery store and see how many candy bars you can buy with one SAE. That is, if you can get the clerk to take it. No doubt some would, either out of ignorance or because they recognize what it is. Now take another SAE, sell it, and take the proceeds in FRNs to the grocery store and see how many candy bars you can buy. Which method got you the most candy? The point is that what is stamped on the one ounce round is meaningless unless an agreement has been reached regarding its value. Fifty "somethings" on these coins should have the same purchasing power as the $1 denominated SAE. I don't know what that "fifty" represents, but it's not a scam if everyone who uses it agrees on the value.

SomeSilver | 11-04-2008 03:46 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... I noticed that the coins say they are "one ounce" .999 silver... Does not say it's a TROY ounce. If its not a troy ounce but a standard ounce, you are only getting .90 troy ounce and should be priced accordingly. Which is it, Troy ounce, or standard ounce?

Saul Mine | 11-04-2008 04:02 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Silver rounds usually do NOT say "troy" ounce, although some do. The "FIFTY" is a bit of weirdness and really should be dropped. The price is in line with the market. I see nothing wrong with this offer except it would be nice to see pictures of actual coins rather than the computer generated images, and then offer them through an established store with an address and stuff.

SomeSilver | 11-04-2008 05:08 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Mine (Post 1396930) Silver rounds usually do NOT say "troy" ounce, although some do. The "FIFTY" is a bit of weirdness and really should be dropped. The price is in line with the market. I see nothing wrong with this offer except it would be nice to see pictures of actual coins rather than the computer generated images, and then offer them through an established store with an address and stuff.
That's strange...almost all of them I've ever seen say specifially "Troy ounce"...or "ounce troy". I would not buy one that didnt say it was a troy ounce. If it merely says "one ounce", I assume they mean standard ounce which is less than a troy ounce. I'm not sure of the motive of anyone who would make a standard ounce coin since when dealing with PMs, the standard is "troy ounce". Perhaps a new buyer not familiar with the terminology would miss the differance and unwittingly pay troy ounce price but get only 90% of a troy ounce.

silverblood | 11-04-2008 07:17 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... 91%..........

JoeSixPack | 11-05-2008 01:32 AM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... I went to www.opencurrency.com, and I do not see a standard. The standard should be a detailed comprehensive document with revision level, approvals, etc. that describes exactly what the standard is. For starters, the fact that no one can tell whether 1 oz. is a troy ounce or a regular ounce tells me this is not a standard.

nickelless | 11-05-2008 02:51 AM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblood (Post 1395636) The artwork is nice. Are those actual coins, or artist's renderings? Are they enameled? The price seems fair for coins that commemorate the "Allies of Evil" (nice twist there; I like it).
Let's remember that evil and incompetence are not respective of parties. If you want to level the playing field, make coins "commemorating" the idiots from the Clinton administration as well. I'll give Barack Obama the benefit of a doubt now that he's the president-elect (until he screws up), but let's not trash the idiots of one party and ignore the equally incompetent idiots of the opposing party.

azxcvbnm321 | 11-06-2008 03:40 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... These are nice coins I'd like to have as a gag or gift to friends. Many of them are very funny, like the Rumsfeld one, "Democracy at gunpoint". Even the Bush one is funny, and they'd make great gifts to liberal friends. They're on sale now for $39.99, I wish they'd price them more reasonably. I'd pay up to $18 for a coin and get a couple of different ones. They're more for gifts and personal enjoyment than investment in silver, still $18 isn't bad for a good gift that will keep its value over time. They'd get a chuckle for sure.

woodman | 11-08-2008 12:09 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... I see no scam. Looks like a fair bullion price for a novelty item.

Elvis | 11-09-2008 09:01 AM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... You pay $15 bucks, you get an ounce of silver on an interesting design. They're taking a piece of paper with 10 and a 5 printed on it in exchange for metal. So the Liberty Dollar people got in hot water by creating a "dollar" denominated currency out of PM to rival the paper currency. So they decided to leave the word out. They also thought that 50 was a fine denomination. Arbitrary to me, but that's the political point of the coin. Hell, the paper you give is about as arbitrary as hell. Yes if you try to use this as a dollar, weird things will happen. I would have denominated the thing in Ameros just so I'd have the trademark.

Tallships | 11-09-2008 09:11 AM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Quote:
Originally Posted by Mujahideen (Post 1396525) Now if it were to say 'tree fitty' and had a picture of the lochness monster, that would be kick ass
Awesome idea. I still play that episode in my head from time to time. You Tube
You Tube

eyeofliberty | 11-09-2008 09:22 AM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 1406357) Awesome idea. I still play that episode in my head from time to time.
Hah! Thanks for the context, I was wondering what the hell Muj was talking about! :biggrin: I missed that episode... This should be a 2009 GIM round, and actually say 'tree fitty' on the die. :4_1_72:

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- Gold - Silver - Coins - Numismatics (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
- - American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=318926)

silverblood | 11-09-2008 03:06 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Quote:
Originally Posted by nickelless (Post 1398367) Let's remember that evil and incompetence are not respective of parties. If you want to level the playing field, make coins "commemorating" the idiots from the Clinton administration as well. I'll give Barack Obama the benefit of a doubt now that he's the president-elect (until he screws up), but let's not trash the idiots of one party and ignore the equally incompetent idiots of the opposing party.
Right, they are all evil and they are all authoritarians. I won't give any of the criminals the benefit of the doubt.

Silver Shield | 11-09-2008 04:19 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... Great coins... I'll give you about tree fitty...

specsaregood | 11-24-2008 05:14 PM
Re: American Open Currency Standard & The NeoCoins... bump, because this obviously ties in with the lakota bank threads.

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