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- - survivalist first, investor second (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=14085)

lone ranger | 10-12-2004 09:47 PM
survivalist first, investor second As you can see from my info, this is my first post. I hope it's a decent one. I've gotten addicted to silver, I think. In the past few days, I've bought several hundred dollars worth of rounds, silver eagles, and pre 65 dollars. My problem is that I need to develope a more exact plan or a stratagy of what I'm doing to maximize my buying . Some people say the best thing is 90% pre 1965 and others .999 silver rounds. But if there is a SHTF situation or the dollar becomes worthless it would seem like people would like something quick to identify as pure silver and easy to handle. I just dont understand how having a zillion old dimes, quarters, and halves is going to be more acceptable than an american silver eagle. Are people gonna stop and look at the date on every single coin? Until last week, I never knew that "silver rounds" even existed. And I bet most people have never seen rounds or bricks. But lots of people have heard of the eagle. Older, collector type coins are sure not the way for me to go. So, to get to the point here, what's so bad about the eagles as #1 survival tender and #2 investment? This is really a great site. Thanks for your info.

Libertarian_Guard | 10-12-2004 10:23 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Welcome aboard Lone Ranger There�s nothing wrong with saving American Eagles for both survival and investment. The only possible critique here is that you can accumulate more ounces of silver, per fiat dollar invested, if you opt for 90% junk U.S. coins. I favor the Franklin halves but to each his own. You should be well received into our fellowship, most here fancy for your bullets as well as your horse.

SilverNuts@Bolts | 10-12-2004 10:46 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Welcome aboard [wher's Tonto?] My thoughts are, some years from the present, dimes and quarters will be more valuable and [maybe] used in everyday trading [bartering or real money] more so, then silver dollars. Eagles, being even more valuable, will be used for larger purchases so, in essence, used less. There was a time, when a dime was the pay, for a days work. In those days, silver was money and some day, it will be again...

koyaanisqatsi | 11-12-2004 06:35 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by lone ranger As you can see from my info, this is my first post. I hope it's a decent one. (very good post!) I've gotten addicted to silver, I think. In the past few days, I've bought several hundred dollars worth of rounds, silver eagles, and pre 65 dollars. (these $1 coins are high premium collectibles relative to lower denominations old US silver coins) My problem is that I need to develope a more exact plan or a stratagy of what I'm doing to maximize my buying . Some people say the best thing is 90% pre 1965 and others .999 silver rounds. But if there is a SHTF situation or the dollar becomes worthless it would seem like people would like something quick to identify as pure silver and easy to handle. I just dont understand how having a zillion old dimes, quarters, and halves is going to be more acceptable than an american silver eagle. (Most people have NOT SEEN a Silver Eagle, but they LOOK for silver dimes and quarters, or they used to when I was young, JMO) Are people gonna stop and look at the date on every single coin? (No, but if you buy old 90% low price junk MERCURY DIMES and FRANKLIN HALVES, you will have easily recognizable silver coins in SMALL USEFUL denominations -- at below spot price NOW, later these may hold a PREMIUM collectible value) Until last week, I never knew that "silver rounds" even existed. (Most peole don't, but IMO if TSHTF people will learn about silver Eagles and the MAJOR MINT'S Silver Rounds. They will be equal in value then IMO, eagles and rounds, so why pay even more premium over spot for the Eagles? I say get known minted rounds, skip the Eagles) And I bet most people have never seen rounds or bricks. (Yes I agree) But lots of people have heard of the eagle. (Not many more than those who have heard of the rounds, I think once you 'learn Silver', you've learned of old US coins and tableware first, then finally Eagles, then SOON AFTER about bars and rounds. JMO -- I've not taken an exact survey, just observation for 2-3 years now) Older, collector type coins are sure not the way for me to go. (Right, avoid premium over silver, that will likely become less important, a mere luxury item to collect and be stuck with until you can find a premium coin buyer, all when times are tough just to survive) So, to get to the point here, what's so bad about the eagles as #1 survival tender and #2 investment? This is really a great site. Thanks for your info.
Koy here suggests you buy Mercury Dimes and Franklin Halves -- lowest silver content cost per ounce, and small for purchases, easily recognized as 90% silver. Make this at least 50%, but not more than 75% of your silver purchases... you are buying silver this way below spot vs maybe 5-10% over spot for bars and 15% over spot for rounds and 25%+ over spot for Eagles... these are round numbers of course. Plus these coins are MADE for CIRCULATION... that's why they are 90% and not 100% silver, pure .999 being too soft and easily tarnishable to be as useful in this service. Also however some good name brand rounds will be .999 ounces for easy barter in some cases done in ounces silver vs. face value transactions. And finally some 10-ounce bars are handy for larger transactions since they carry less premium than 1 ounce rounds. Make these the remaining percentage of your purchase. And some 1/10 to 1/2 oz gold coins are handy if you have to carry some liquid wealth very discretely while your bulky silver remains protected somewhere else. Conversions to show the bargains in old US coins (compare relative 0% circulated coin appreciation in collectors value over silver to old US 1950's comic books for instance at about 5,000% up...) OLD ROLLS -- dimes and quarters and halves Silver spot value $20.00 Dollars in Face is spot value............................. $109.80 $ 5 roll is 3.616 pure silver is today spot value silver.......... $27.45 $10 roll is 7.233 oz pure silver 7.233 pure silver is today.....$54.90 spot @ $7.59 TODAY $1 face in pre-1965 US coins is $5.49 in spot silver today So a Mercury Dime .07232 ounces will be worth $7.23 if/when silver goes to $100 (here assumed equivalent buying power) an ounce... a Franklin half will be $36.15... Now do you want to carry around Silver Eagles worth $100 each when you go to buy just a gallon of Kerosene or a box of .22 shells? Meanwhile, a 10-ounce bar, the one most easily faked, will be worth $1,000...Meanwhile you can buy 10-30% MORE silver on today's investment if you buy dimes... go figure, I did... I think 'survival' too, just like you. Lone Ranger, I am not pretending to be an EXPERT, just a new friend sharing an honest opinion that you asked for... welcome to the forum and please give me YOUR OPINION anytime... thanks for joining us, Lone Ranger, my kemo sabe!

CtrlAltDel | 11-12-2004 07:17 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second For a "survivor" buy 90% dimes, then 40% halfs, then 90% quarters, then 90% halves, then Eagles. You then have the whole range of options of silver coinage available to you. You do not have to "tip your hand" or show the size of your stash when making any purchase.

PONCE | 11-12-2004 07:28 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Well buddy, I'll stay with my one oz round silver coins and take your mercury dimes for small loose change when ever I buy something. Place a one oz round silver coin on a scale and then do the same with the mercury dimes and see how many will that be equal to, remember also that mercury dimes are not .999 pure silver like one oz round silver. Got silver ?????????

AKBill | 11-12-2004 07:31 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second I just started buying this last year and the advise I got and used was to buy 90% coinage. It looks from your post that you like me are not buying 100 oz at a time and spending a few hundred here and there. What I have done when I buy small amounts is use mixed 90% lots on ebay I have a seller that gives me 1lb of 90% mixed quarters dimes and halfs with a silver eagle and peace dollar for about $100.00 that way I cover all my bases I have bought over five pounds from her now and have liked them every time her ebay ID is dv7777777 tell her akbillssurplus sent you if you buy from her she auctions them as 1/4 lb lots at 21.99 starting price I have never had to pay over 25.00 for a 1/4 lb from her. welcome to the forum you'll love it here

onepence | 11-12-2004 08:55 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Do wartime nickels have more silver value than dimes? and only wartime nickels, as compared to other nickels, have silver content, TRUE ? oneness, dh

Bobcat | 11-12-2004 09:20 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by onepence Do wartime nickels have more silver value than dimes? and only wartime nickels, as compared to other nickels, have silver content, TRUE ? oneness, dh
Wartime nickles are 35% silver and have less silver than a dime.

koyaanisqatsi | 11-13-2004 12:30 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Lone Ranger, I hope you have not ridden off yet, please come back... Hiho Silver! I decided to check some current prices on Ebay, but first I'll address Jerry's great comment about the real content of silver in an worn down old roll of US silver dimes... Like dimes, quarters, and half-dollars, silver dollars were minted of an alloy of 90% silver and 10% copper with each coin containing a net silver content of .77344 ounce; therefore, 1,000 coins contained 773.44 ounces of silver when minted. By contrast, $1,000 face value of pre-1965 U.S. silver dimes, quarters, or half-dollars contained 723.4 ounces of silver, a difference of fifty ounces. When minted, a $1,000 face value bag contained 723.4 ounces of silver. Due to wear, however, a bag of circulated coins yields approximately 715 ounces when refined; therefore, to calculate an accurate price per ounce, divide the cost by 715. A bag weights a little under 55 pounds on a bathroom scale. http://www.certifiedmint.com/silver.htm http://www.certifiedmint.com/images/MercDimeex.gif Junk silver Mercury Dimes .715 per $1 face x $5 roll of dimes (worn as above) = 3.575 oz pure silver content http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...939750877&rd=1 Sold at $21.50 as above = $6.01 an ounce $1,000 buys 166.4 ounces pure silver equivalent 20 ounce roll .999 �name brand� minted rounds http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT Sold at $162.50 = $8.12 per ounce $1,000 buys 123 ounces of pure silver 20 1 ounce Silver Eagles http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT Sold at $197.00 = $9.85 per ounce $1,000 buys 102 ounces of pure silver Think it over and take your pick, consider that people will learn about REAL silver content pretty quickly -- if silver becomes a regular medium of exchange currency or barter after the FRN dollar collapse or even being blasted virtually into the stone age... again I say small denominations, easily recognizable as silver, IMPOSSIBLE to counterfeit well, these little coins will be in high demand as TRADITIONAL universal trade currency. Maybe you could start a new :hahaha: local 'bank' with your many silver dimes... comments are welcome from all.

jerry | 11-13-2004 01:20 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by koyaanisqatsi Lone Ranger, I hope you have not ridden off yet, please come back... Hiho Silver! I decided to check some current prices on Ebay, but first I'll address Jerry's great comment about the real content of silver in an worn down old roll of US silver dimes... Like dimes, quarters, and half-dollars, silver dollars were minted of an alloy of 90% silver and 10% copper with each coin containing a net silver content of .77344 ounce; therefore, 1,000 coins contained 773.44 ounces of silver when minted. By contrast, $1,000 face value of pre-1965 U.S. silver dimes, quarters, or half-dollars contained 723.4 ounces of silver, a difference of fifty ounces. When minted, a $1,000 face value bag contained 723.4 ounces of silver. Due to wear, however, a bag of circulated coins yields approximately 715 ounces when refined; therefore, to calculate an accurate price per ounce, divide the cost by 715. A bag weights a little under 55 pounds on a bathroom scale. http://www.certifiedmint.com/silver.htm http://www.certifiedmint.com/images/MercDimeex.gif Junk silver Mercury Dimes .715 per $1 face x $5 roll of dimes (worn as above) = 3.575 oz pure silver content http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...939750877&rd=1 Sold at $21.50 as above = $6.01 an ounce $1,000 buys 166.4 ounces pure silver equivalent 20 ounce roll .999 �name brand� minted rounds http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT Sold at $155 = $7.75 per ounce $1,000 buys 129 ounces of pure silver 20 1 ounce Silver Eagles http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT Sold at $185 = $9.25 per ounce $1,000 buys 108.1 ounces of pure silver Think it over and take your pick, consider that people will learn about REAL silver content pretty quickly -- if silver becomes a regular medium of exchange currency or barter after the FRN dollar collapse or even being blasted virtually into the stone age... again I say small denominations, easily recognizable as silver, IMPOSSIBLE to counterfeit well, these little coins will be in high demand as TRADITIONAL universal trade currency. Maybe you could start a new :hahaha: local 'bank' with your many silver dimes... comments are welcome from all.
I hope that I am the jerry that you are appreciating. Excellent post (as far as I am concerned)! This should help to get the point across. Cannot understand why people do not get the realities of the silver situation. Must be they place it in the category of, "too good to be true."

koyaanisqatsi | 11-13-2004 01:37 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry I hope that I am the jerry that you are appreciating. Excellent post (as far as I am concerned)!
OOPS! :smokin: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PONCE said this above: "Well buddy, I'll stay with my one oz round silver coins and take your mercury dimes for small loose change when ever I buy something." "Place a one oz round silver coin on a scale and then do the same with the mercury dimes and see how many will that be equal to, remember also that mercury dimes are not .999 pure silver like one oz round silver." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- So sorry to confuse you with Ponce here, Jerry! You know how it is when a man like me gets on in his years, now mere names are so easy to confuse... actually you two guys are very different, yet much the same, just like I like my friends to be. All should have GOOD COMMON SENSE, otherwise variety in viewpoint is just superb! And you KNOW I appreciate you, buddy. We're waiting until July 1... 2005! :coolbeer:

Hobo | 11-13-2004 03:22 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second I am living on a tight budget, so I can spend only about $50 every two weeks. I've been doing this for about 6 months. I started with eagles, then switched to rounds, then 90% dimes and halfs. It's been a learning process, starting with the eagles because they are advertised everywhere. Then realizing rounds were cheaper, then reading the recommendations on 90%. I wish that I had more money to spend, but our low inflation rate has taken a bit of a toll on the family. Now I learn that things are shakey at work. I'd feel safer if I had a giant safe full of coins, but I guess that I'm way ahead of most sheeple. I was thinking of getting some of those 1 gram bars of gold from apmex.com for about $22 each. But sometimes I listen to those programs that are advertising semi-numinismatics, and warning us of confiscation if you have bullion. Any comments or thoughts by any of you? Anyone out there buy any of those 1 gram bars of gold? Any could some explain to me why the date July1, 2005 keeps popping up?Sorry but I'm still wet behind the ears on this stuff! :D

koyaanisqatsi | 11-13-2004 04:21 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobo I was thinking of getting some of those 1 gram bars of gold from apmex.com for about $22 each. Anyone out there buy any of those 1 gram bars of gold? I like 1/10 gold Eagles or Maple Leafs but those would be OK, I think small denominations when money is rare. Tiny Pamp Suisse 1g bars may not be as easily recognized as 'proof' unless in the 'certified package' -- I cannot say. I'd go with 1/10 oz bullion grade US coins myself. I even think of sewing some valuable compact gold inside a perhaps shirt seam -- could get you someplace safe, and remain undectected until useful-- I understand downed USAF pilots sometimes carry a couple of issued gold sovereigns for this purpose today, no way to verify. Some say buy 1/3 gold, 2/3 silver -- but I say have at least SOME gold, however meager, to satisfy every contingency... But sometimes I listen to those programs that are advertising semi-numinismatics, and warning us of confiscation if you have bullion. Any comments or thoughts by any of you? I think this is mostly BS, but I select some of each for security in any option. Confiscation is not likely to be considerate or polite, respectful of collectors... but it might, so I get some cheaper versions of those in no more than VF+ condition if I pay much premium -- too expensive so get cheap numismatics. Any could some explain to me why the date July1, 2005 keeps popping up?Sorry but I'm still wet behind the ears on this stuff! :D Sorry to lose you on that, Hobo -- Jerry has a 'vision' of that date being the BIG ONE, the ultimate CRASH, and I was ribbing him a bit... I enjoy my friend Jerry's fiesty visionary attitude -- you are able to review some of his older posts from the past by clicking his name. Good to know you here Hobo, I'm a poor 'hobo' too, I assure you.
I'm glad you don't have to be a rich 'investor class' to enjoy GIM and some PEACE OF MIND. :coolbeer:

Hobo | 11-13-2004 04:55 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Thanks koyaanisqatsi for your input. I think that I might buy one of those 1 gram bars and see what they are like. I thought they come in a plastic package with a description on it. They are inexpensive for those of us on a tight budget ($22ea), so I could buy one of those and a few silver rounds per pay period. My boss told me at 4:30pm on friday that things are getting dicey at work. Oh, just great! Funny thing, he is one of those sheeple in the stock market. Maybe the whole place shuts down someday, and he'll be knocing on my door looking for a crust of bread while I count my silver coins! :beer:

Veli Hopea | 11-13-2004 04:57 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second I'd like to remind you about few things: 1) People like coins 2) Coin collectors like coins more than rounds 3) Industry likes fine silver. Industry will not pay as much for 90% silver. 4) A silver bar, especially a big one, is easier to counterfeit than a coin 5) A real coin that is legal tender somewhere is better recognized and known than a silver bar

PONCE | 11-13-2004 05:34 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Hey guys? remember that when you buy a piece of PM instead of the whole thing the % that you pay is higher. One oz round will be as well known as the silver coins for they will be part of the future MAD currency. To you new guys, I am glad that you finally decided to do something about protecting yourselves and your family, better late than never.

koyaanisqatsi | 11-13-2004 05:53 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by Veli Hopea I'd like to remind you about few things: 1) People like coins 2) Coin collectors like coins more than rounds 3) Industry likes fine silver. Industry will not pay as much for 90% silver. 4) A silver bar, especially a big one, is easier to counterfeit than a coin 5) A real coin that is legal tender somewhere is better recognized and known than a silver bar
Great input Veli Hopea, let me try and INCORPORATE here... Now a decision making grid: Score each category of purchase on a scale of 1-5 #1 is very bad.....#3 is neutral......#5 is very good 1) People like coins Old 90% US coin................4 (very common) Silver Dollars.....................5 Silver rounds....................3 Silver Eagles.....................5 Silver bars........................1 Gold coins bullion...............5 (mint BU grade) Old Gold VF coins...............5 Gold bars..........................2 2) Coin collectors like coins more than rounds Old 90% US coin...............4 (very common) Silver Dollars ...................5 Silver rounds....................1 Silver Eagles....................5 Silver bars.......................1 Gold coins bullion..............5 (mint) Old Gold VF coins.............4 (not true collectors grade) Gold bars........................1 3) Industry likes fine silver. Industry will not pay as much for 90% silver. (note that this is a 'survival' thread, and so silver is likely to be monetized, slow industry demand, JMO) Old 90% US coin.............1 Silver Dollars...................1 Silver rounds..................5 Silver Eagles..................5 Silver bars......................5 Gold coins bullion.............5 Old Gold VF coins.............3 Gold bars........................5 4) A silver bar, especially a big one, is easier to counterfeit than a coin Old 90% US coin.............5 Silver Dollars .................5 Silver rounds..................3 Silver Eagles..................5 Silver bars.....................1 Gold coins bullion............4 Old Gold VF coins...........5 Gold bars......................2 5) A real coin that is legal tender somewhere is better recognized and known than a silver bar Old 90% US coin...........5 Silver Dollars ...............5 Silver rounds................3 Silver Eagles................5 Silver bars...................1 Gold coins bullion..........5 Old Gold VF coins..........3 (questionable recognition, i.e. how much gold in a 1900 US 20 Dollars?) Gold bars....................2(possible fake w/o sealed package?) Initial cost per ounce weighted times 2 (for most of us) Old 90% US coin............10 Silver Dollars ................2 Silver rounds.................5 Silver Eagles.................2 Silver bars....................6 Gold coins bullion............5 Old Gold VF coins............4 Gold bars.......................5 Small denomination or size purchase Old 90% US coin............5 Silver Dollars.................3 Silver rounds.................3 Silver Eagles.................3 Silver bars....................1 Gold coins bullion...........4 1/10 oz or 1/20 oz Old Gold VF coins..........3 1/6 or 1/8 oz @92% minimum Gold bars.....................5 (1g bar ingot) Likelyhood of NO Confiscation (hypothetical relative values expressed) Old 90% US coin...........5 Silver Dollars ...............5 Silver rounds................2 Silver Eagles................4 Silver bars...................2 Gold coins bullion..........3 Old Gold VF coins.........5 Gold bars....................2 TOTAL 'SURVIVAL' DESIRABILITY SCORES: PERFECT SCORE ...........50 Old 90% US coin...........39 Silver Dollars ...............31 Silver rounds................25 Silver Eagles................34 Silver bars...................18 Gold coins bullion..........36 Old Gold VF coins.........32 Gold bars....................24 Note that I did not attempt an estimate of relative ROIs, since this is a survival type scenario I presume, an investment to maximize one's asset security in every contingency considered. I took that to mean a trade 'barter economy' with silver becoming monetized in some manner... to replace currency as we know it. These are just my own weighted picks, but there are many ways to decide when speculating about the unknowable future. Many ways to weigh a complex decision... Spread investment around to satisfy one's self if budget permits, if not maybe get the most bang for a little $ bucks... JMO, not knowing the best for everyone. Enjoying the posting as you can see, :burnout:

Anthony | 11-13-2004 06:28 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second I run my silver 50-50, half rounds and eagles, the other 90% junk. I figure for land, etc the rounds and eagles will come in handy. The junk is for everything else. I prefer dimes. I figeure they wil get the most circulation. Then quarters, then whatever else I can get cheap. Got a bunch of halves at a pawn shop the last week for $2.25 each. Bought all he had, and got a call from him today, so am dropping by tomorrow for 20 more. His 1/10 gold eagles are still $75 each, but am slowly talking him down. Pawn brokers and jewelers want to move the stuff fast if they get it, so get your name out in your area.

l_wo0 | 11-15-2004 02:16 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobo But sometimes I listen to those programs that are advertising semi-numinismatics, and warning us of confiscation if you have bullion. Any comments or thoughts by any of you? Anyone out there buy any of those 1 gram bars of gold?
Here's a good link to think about: http://certifiedmint.com/myths_lies.htm The section on confiscation was helpful to me. Louis

lone ranger | 11-15-2004 08:52 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Thanks to everyone who answered my question. Alot of you have mentioned rounds. I have been buying dimes, rounds, and 1 oz Engelhard bars. (I seem to find better deals on the 1 oz bars than the rounds.) If the dollar becomes worthless and PM is the way we go, why will rounds be better to have than bars? They are both 1 oz of silver. Or are you generically useing the word "rounds" for any piece of .999 1 oz silver? This is an interesting site. Thanks for your comments!!!!

silvergonecrazy | 12-25-2004 03:37 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second hi everyone--new to site---had a question about which mercury dime and which franklin halve was the right one to by in bulk

MtnValley | 12-27-2004 09:29 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by silvergonecrazy hi everyone--new to site---had a question about which mercury dime and which franklin halve was the right one to by in bulk
If you're buying for silver content, the year/mint is irrelevant IMHO. I'm not sure why you want to specifically stay with Mercs and Frankies, but there are benefits...one knows they're 90% at a glance, whereas Roosies (dirty ones where you can't just look at the edges and trust it) may require some squintin' time to verify before thowing 'em in the bag. The dates are plenty big enough on '64 Kennedys, but you still have to look at the date (if edges are dirty) on each coin...not a prob with Franklins. That said-- I've found (and perhaps others have as well) that the Mercs I get typically are more worn on average than the silver Roosies. More worn=less silver content. I put together a bag of all Mercs just for grins, and probably should have weighed it prior to "storage" just to verify the cumulative effect, if any. The best combination IMHO of "bang for buck" and "easy to work with" is 90% quarters...no squinting required, usually the same price as dimes (with halves often carrying a premium to that price). (edited in) I just looked upthread and see that I recapped some points that were already made. I would like to add that I think diversification is important if you can manage it, as one is then prepared for whatever form factor is in greatest demand. Then again, I'm not as firmly in the "SHTF" camp as some here...I can't categorically refute such a "Mad Max" scenario as being possible, nor can I view it as likely (or even probable), as some do. I'd rather prepare for possible eventualities, without choosing one to the exclusion of all others.

silvergonecrazy | 12-28-2004 09:53 AM
Re: survivalist first, investor second thanks--- every little bit counts if you are part of the shtf group--its not just that but i also believe that silver will gain significantly anyway--so either way at least ill have some silver and probably the same in small denom gold---

PONCE | 12-28-2004 11:40 AM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Where I wasen't 100% sure two weeks ago I am sure now, buy PM and get ready.

lhslancers | 12-28-2004 12:54 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Ponce what do you see that makes you so sure now?

Argentsum | 12-31-2004 11:35 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Hey Ponce! I just noticed that you live up in the woods somewhere in Oregon. That makes us neighbors:beer:

silvergonecrazy | 01-08-2005 08:30 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second i can't find which quarters are 90% silver---any help would be nice --thanks

hernancortes | 01-08-2005 08:42 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second silvergonecrazy, any pre-65 quarter is 90%

silvergonecrazy | 01-08-2005 10:55 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second thank you for the help

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PONCE | 01-08-2005 11:50 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by lhslancers Ponce what do you see that makes you so sure now?
An army can go only as fast as the slower soldier, when you are supposed to be going at 120 steps per minute and you got a guy doing only 75 and you life is on the line you have no choice but to cut him loose. The US dollar used to be the lead man but now is going to slow for the rest of the world, China-Russia-India-Japan and so on are now going into the Euro. When we think of the dollar we can no longer think of the US dollar but of the basket of foreign currencies that MAKES the dollar. The US has to beg for 2.6 to 2.8 billions PER DAY from foreigners in order to survive and that won't last, soon it will be 3 billions a day. The US and China are now at war in regards to oil, we steal it and China buys it...... as a matter of fact China is now dealing with a company in the US, I believe the name is Sonoco?, to buy ALL their properties overseas and in the US for 13 billions dollars.......AGAIN "AND IN THE US". Where the price of houses were going up at a rate of 18% to 42% per year they are now down to 7% to about 23%. Soon people will owe more in their houses than house isworth and they will have to abandon them, specially those with flexible mortgages. 2005 will be a very bad year and 2006 much worse, and I expect something very bad to happen this year. The dollar will be hit hard this year, but that's not it. But hey! what do I know I am only a dumb Cuban refugee. After reading and thinking about it I have decided that it would be practical to have a few silver coins next to my one oz rounds of silver. Anyone here in the market? dealer?

lr777g62d | 01-09-2005 12:30 AM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Something big is coming down in 2005. What it will be is anyones guess, but it will be huge, and unprecedented. What passes for reality seems more and more like fantasy. Every aspect of what passes as modernity I am beginning to sense is nothing but fantasy. It is as though we are living in a dream and I am only now slowly becoming aware of the fact. I cannot see our system (dream) being sustainable for much longer. Everything around me seems as if in a dream state, and we are about to be awakened into a completely different and new reality. It may be a horrible new reality, or one which is too beautifull to put into words, but I feel, know, that it is imminent. Sorry for my ramble...

azxcvbnm321 | 01-12-2005 10:02 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second You know people talk about the fall of the dollar as if it were the Mexican Peso or something like that. The dollar is down less than 15% from where it traded at when the Euro was created. The initial Euro exchange rate was around $1.15 = 1 Euro. Now the dollar is $1.30 = 1 Euro. I just don't see how this could lead to the gloom and doom scenarios some people envision. Also consider the fact that ALL of our debt is denominated in dollars so a collapse like that of Argentina, or Brazil, or Thailand is impossible. Those countries had their debt in dollars, and when their currencies collapsed, they tried to print more of their own currency to pay back their debt. But they couldn't print dollars, so printing more of their own currency was fruitless and just made things worse and worse. Argentina did a rare thing and just seized all the dollars in private citizens accounts and replaced it with their own currency, the Peso. We don't have that problem because all of our debt is in dollars. A lower dollar is a good thing right now. It makes US made products more competitive. People will buy more American and less foreign goods as foreign goods get more expensive. A lower dollar also means that all the dollars foreign countries have are worth less, so it's like paying off debt without having to spend a dime. What we need right now is to have other nations step up their spending so that the US doesn't have to carry the entire world economy like it has been doing for the last few years.

hoarder | 01-12-2005 10:51 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by azxcvbnm321 A lower dollar is a good thing right now. It makes US made products more competitive. People will buy more American and less foreign goods as foreign goods get more expensive.
No matter how low the dollar is you can't buy American goods unless you can FIND them. Every time I shop, I hunt for American goods. I'm willing to pay a premium but I can't find them. I guess I'm supposed to believe that they will magically appear when the dollar drops even farther, but I doubt that tool, electronics and clothes manufacturers will tool up and hire when we gravitate even lower than we are now. Does anyone have a good chart to post on the Euro vs dollar historical exchange rates?

Anthony | 01-13-2005 07:54 AM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Hoarder, The fact is the factories that can manufacture the goods are gone. To get american goods back you need to build new facilities, and that takes money. A high inflation, dropping dollar environment is not one that encourages it. Fact is, should the US get in conflict with China, they can build all the goods they need to kick the US' butt, just like the US had the capacity in WWII. The US imports everything, and a stop of shipping would bring the US to its knees. The US is a has been. Decay has rotted it to the core. No manufacturing, no power. The military and money system hold each other up. Either falls they both fall. It will soon be a third world nation. Then the US will be able to compete, since people will be willing to work for food. Can't say the US doesn't have it coming.

hoarder | 01-13-2005 08:26 AM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Anthony, I am acutely aware of all that, and to take it one step farther, I think that those who run America behind the scenes run China behind the scenes as well. World government is right around the corner.

azxcvbnm321 | 01-14-2005 05:36 AM
Re: survivalist first, investor second The US's comparative advantage is not in making manufactured goods, but in developing technology and information. Look at the success of Yahoo which has divisions all around the World including China and Japan. They received over $1 billion in revenue last year without manufacturing anything tangible. Ebay is another great example, and of course we have Hollywood which continues to pump out $500 million dollar movies every 2 weeks or so. Then there are the drug makers (who should not be forced to give away costly drugs for free!). Shall I go on? Hey, it's the 21st century. Wake up folks, America will never be the manufacturer it once was, which is a good thing. We've moved ahead and are showing the way once again.

Anthony | 01-14-2005 09:03 AM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by azxcvbnm321 Wake up folks, America will never be the manufacturer it once was, which is a good thing. We've moved ahead and are showing the way once again.
Disagree there - America is a maufacturer - it manufactures over a billion dollars a day in debt, and creates money. The story you tell is the mainstream, mass media trip of 'hey we are great because we are creative' The fact that the world is buying all this debt does not mean it is going to continue. Asia will not continue to export their savings to the US forever. They are going to want their own iPods and entertainment. You have to have tangibles. A pot to piss in and a blanket to keep you warm. Those with the goods and the means to make them have the power. America's power is an illusion. It is a rusting factory with broken windows. You are dependant on China, whether you like it or not. Spend one month without buying Chinese, if you can. Then try buying just domestic. They can turn that into a war machine in months and the US is a sitting duck. If it weren't for nukes, the hands would already be around the throat. Wake up. The US is a third world country. On life support with Asia controlling the switch.

azxcvbnm321 | 01-15-2005 12:40 AM
Re: survivalist first, investor second That's right, the US is also the World's manufacturer of money. Remember, the dollar is the World's reserve currency, and so if the World economy grows, more money must be created or else we have deflation. If World GDP goes up by 2%, then we must create 2% of new dollars just to keep up with growth. Creation of money is not a bad thing, but is needed. Even with a gold standard we would have to supply more gold as the economy expands. Only excessive printing to a point where people loose all confidence is harmful. But we would have to see severe inflation on the magnitude of 10% a month or so for that to happen. Indications are that it's not going to happen anytime soon.

Waxhead | 01-15-2005 02:29 AM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by azxcvbnm321 The US's comparative advantage is not in making manufactured goods, but in developing technology and information. Look at the success of Yahoo which has divisions all around the World including China and Japan. They received over $1 billion in revenue last year without manufacturing anything tangible. Ebay is another great example, and of course we have Hollywood which continues to pump out $500 million dollar movies every 2 weeks or so. Then there are the drug makers (who should not be forced to give away costly drugs for free!). Shall I go on? Hey, it's the 21st century. Wake up folks, America will never be the manufacturer it once was, which is a good thing. We've moved ahead and are showing the way once again.
If the crunch ever comes you can not live off E Bay or eat Hollywood movies. When things get tougher globally what will be sought , Food (Basics) or unneeded luxuries. US is becoming vunerable. :thumpdown Like you say nothing tangible

azxcvbnm321 | 01-17-2005 10:53 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second On the other hand, you can't eat gold or silver either. And neither will keep you warm or protect you from the elements. If there is that kind of disaster, I'm afraid nothing will hold up. All civilization will come to an end, including the laws that civilization has set up. In that scenario, only a gun with plenty of ammo will save you and your family from what will come. God help us, but murder, thievery, and savagery will be commonplace. A starving man with nothing left to lose will do anything and commit any act, no matter how despicable, to save himself. What good will gold do in the world you're talking about? If you think the world will end in that way, I'd rather stock up on guns'n ammo.

Spacecat | 02-06-2005 01:44 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Hey, it's the 21st century. Wake up folks, America will never be the manufacturer it once was, which is a good thing. We've moved ahead and are showing the way once again.
Man that sounds like the World Government crowd talking there, a good thing, Eeek !!!:thumpdown 21st Century this 21st Century that, Sounds like Agenda 21 from the Untied Nations. they openly call for the redistribution of wealth, manufacturing, technology, money, etc,, the Sustainable Development crapola. I also Disagree, America's Sell out of our manufarturing base is a travisty, I personally dont think buying products from China's 30 million Slave labor workers is good for the american people, A strong manufacturing base is good psychologically and ecomonically for a country, when a nation becomes dependant on another then they become subject to it's rules and regulations, it is a loss of soverignty, and as Hoarder said, it is the people behind the scenes that are doing this. azxcvbnm321 : could you please explane this " We've moved ahead and are showing the way once again" what are we showing the way to??? <!-- / message -->

negative1 | 02-11-2005 12:03 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by azxcvbnm321 On the other hand, you can't eat gold or silver either. And neither will keep you warm or protect you from the elements. If there is that kind of disaster, I'm afraid nothing will hold up. All civilization will come to an end, including the laws that civilization has set up. In that scenario, only a gun with plenty of ammo will save you and your family from what will come. God help us, but murder, thievery, and savagery will be commonplace. A starving man with nothing left to lose will do anything and commit any act, no matter how despicable, to save himself. What good will gold do in the world you're talking about? If you think the world will end in that way, I'd rather stock up on guns'n ammo.
I think that ammo will be a great investment. It will also be a form of money if things get bad enough. What will the exchange rate be ammo to silver? Maybe 5 rounds of ammo to 1 round of silver? If it's ever gets to be 1 to 1 we are in a world of hurt...lol. -1

SilverStreak | 02-12-2005 03:28 PM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Sorry to always interject something from the past but believe history is the best teacher and so as it was in the late 70's and early 80's the 90% USA silver coins could buy anything and i mean ammunition or guns or groceries or resturants or clothes or furniture or whatever as it was the desired currency by a large portion or the population even in the large cities or the country side---law and order prevailed and we did not need guns or ammo but as a silver dealer i always carried a 9mm S&W auto as we thought nothing of it to carry $$100,000 in a shoe box to the bank and deposit it and kept at least that much in the store for cash payments------ I never did hear of any dealer robbed as there was very little crime in the Twin Cites in Minnesota at that time ---might be damn different now with crime and cash

Worldmariner | 08-20-2005 09:00 AM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by koyaanisqatsi Now do you want to carry around Silver Eagles worth $100 each when you go to buy just a gallon of Kerosene or a box of .22 shells? Meanwhile, a 10-ounce bar, the one most easily faked, will be worth $1,000...Meanwhile you can buy 10-30% MORE silver on today's investment if you buy dimes... go figure, I did... I think 'survival' too, just like you.
Hmm... Can I ask... what is the rationalization/justification of saying that the 10 oz Ag bar is the most easily faked? Can a smooth finish 10 oz be faked easily? I have seen a shiny shiny one, sharp edges, et cetera, and it seems that drilling, filling with lead, then replating would not leave the nice smooth finish. There are some.... Hmmm.. Engelhards I saw on ePuke being sold, and they were smooth edged. They remined me of scuba diving weights. THOSE could certainly be faked with no problem. Is there an aspect I am not seeing? PLEASE DO share your thoughts; I am considering adding some 10oz and 100 oz bars into my vault as large purchasing power stored value. I do not want to pony up a sizable chunk of my coinage and 1 oz's for a 3000$ purchase. I also use gold US coins/Double Eagles as stored value in a small package. Thanks for any ideas anyone can toss my way!!! WM Hoarder, can I use your tractor this weekend? ;)

Worldmariner | 08-20-2005 09:35 AM
Re: survivalist first, investor second Quote:
Originally Posted by azxcvbnm321 On the other hand, you can't eat gold or silver either. And neither will keep you warm or protect you from the elements. If there is that kind of disaster, I'm afraid nothing will hold up. All civilization will come to an end, including the laws that civilization has set up. In that scenario, only a gun with plenty of ammo will save you and your family from what will come. God help us, but murder, thievery, and savagery will be commonplace. A starving man with nothing left to lose will do anything and commit any act, no matter how despicable, to save himself. What good will gold do in the world you're talking about? If you think the world will end in that way, I'd rather stock up on guns'n ammo.
Interesting... I would add the phrase "...a man with nothing left to lose and a family to feed..." Hey! Let's not leave out archery equipment! Reusable and OH SO QUIET! Kinda sort range though... :(

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