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- - I am considering trading in some Au Bullion (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=57563)

sinsky | 08-23-2006 06:26 PM
I am considering trading in some Au Bullion for some ms 63 & ms64 numismatic coins to diversify my physical holding. From a recommendation I contacted a numismatic dealer to trade the physical for the coins. I told the dealer that I had a bunch of .9999 1 oz bars to trade and the dealer told me that they have to buy them back at a $5.20 discount to spot, because (get this) apparently no body wants bars! I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Gold is gold, right? And if it is in a bar form, then noone wants it? It sounds like a scam to me. Id like to get a second opinion- can anyone recommend to me a good, honest numismatic dealer which would be interested in participating in a trade of bullion for MS 63& 64 coins? Rick

TomD | 08-23-2006 06:30 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Actually that sounds like an OK deal. Check Apmex right now, they are paying spot -$3.00 for Kugerrands

RichyRich | 08-23-2006 06:35 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Sell your gold on ebay and then buy the numis from your dealer.

graspAU | 08-23-2006 06:45 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Deal does not sound too bad. Some parts of the word like bars, others like coins. Shop around though to a few more places before you agree to that.

lhslancers | 08-23-2006 06:45 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion I'm getting the idea you shouldn't be buying numismatics.

southfork | 08-23-2006 06:46 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Sell your gold on ebay, but dont buy from the dealer, they want book most of time and you will be down 40% the moment you buy, go to coin shows if you want best deals.

lhslancers | 08-23-2006 06:47 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Quote:
Originally Posted by sinsky (Post 339333) for some ms 63 & ms64 numismatic coins to diversify my physical holding. From a recommendation I contacted a numismatic dealer to trade the physical for the coins. I told the dealer that I had a bunch of .9999 1 oz bars to trade and the dealer told me that they have to buy them back at a $5.20 discount to spot, because (get this) apparently no body wants bars! I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Gold is gold, right? And if it is in a bar form, then noone wants it? It sounds like a scam to me. Id like to get a second opinion- can anyone recommend to me a good, honest numismatic dealer which would be interested in participating in a trade of bullion for MS 63& 64 coins? Rick
CNI is buying the pamp suisse bars for spot. Unless you live near Inglewood Cali there will be shipping charges. The dealer has to make something on you.

Au_Ag | 08-23-2006 07:09 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Quote:
Originally Posted by sinsky (Post 339333) .9999 1 oz bars to trade and the dealer told me that they have to buy them back at a $5.20 discount to spot, because.................
Not that bad a deal, IMHO. Gold is gold, but some coins carry premiums - some coins are usually sold to a dealer under spot - such as Krands, the 5.20 sounds reasonable. The dealer has overhead. Something has to pay for the overhead or he can't keep his doors open. Not sure if he is tellng it like it is in terms of the markets - but I don't buy bars - I figure that coins are accepted/recognized and bars may well be easier to counterfeit, so in terms of at least me - he is correct. There _are_ various counterfeits around - not very much of a problem today - but this will be an issue if the price goes to the moon.

pimples | 08-23-2006 07:15 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Stick with everyday bullion...don't buy numistatic coinage, you want quanity before quality when it comes to gold...more bang for your buck....I'm loaded.

j-son | 08-23-2006 07:26 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion what kind of bars do you have? what brand? do you have the assay certificates? maybe i'll buy them from you.

AuNuggets | 08-24-2006 09:11 AM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Whoever talked you into trading in gold bullion for numismatics is the real scam artist. Best rethink your strategy....... !:thumpdown

TheKingsSon | 08-24-2006 09:22 AM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Quote:
Originally Posted by AuNuggets (Post 339779) Whoever talked you into trading in gold bullion for numismatics is the real scam artist. Best rethink your strategy....... !:thumpdown
I concur :thumbs up

Large Sarge | 08-24-2006 09:24 AM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Quote:
Originally Posted by AuNuggets (Post 339779) Whoever talked you into trading in gold bullion for numismatics is the real scam artist. Best rethink your strategy....... !:thumpdown
Agreed, Numismatics should be added only after major bullion accumulation, and ONLY if you know what you are doing with them. Seems like you are going in reverse.

The Great Ag | 08-24-2006 11:24 AM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion You are diversifying from bullion to MS63-64. Good choice IMO. If your plan is to sell them (numismatics) at some time in the future, the MS coins usually out perform bullion everytime. Like any investment make sure you know which coins to buy. Some are hot now, and others have peaked and are on the way down, but will rise at some time in the future. I am not surprised your dealer said there is not much demand for bars. I hear this a lot. It would not matter what you brought to him, he would probably say this. Although $5.20 under spot does not seem unreasonable. My dealer buys for 10% less and sells for 10% over spot. I buy my PMs elsewhere. The Great Ag

slvrbugjim | 08-24-2006 12:15 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Quote:
Originally Posted by Large Sarge (Post 339788) Agreed, Numismatics should be added only after major bullion accumulation, and ONLY if you know what you are doing with them. Seems like you are going in reverse.
I bought Numismatics first when I first got into this, I have 25 $10 liberties MS 63 and 64 s and a few half and quarter indians. the value of these has gone from $1350 on the ms 63's to about $1100 since may, but will double if gold hits 800. At which time I would sell them all I think. So Numismatics are ok if what you are going to sell them in the future, to make a profit, but in a SHTF scenario, the value of slabbed coins will revert back to the inherent value of the gold content. When people are trying to get food and water to survive, they will probably not be very interested in working on completing their collection of MS63 liberties. Buy bullion for survival, buy numismatics for fun and to some extent as an investment. IX. Never swap bullion coins for U.S. $20 gold pieces. and as a matter of a differing opinion Numismatic Coins? Just say NO!

AuNuggets | 08-24-2006 12:42 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion It's nothing unusual for numismatic dealers to take 30 or 40 percent off the top when you trade bullion for collector coins, undergrading when they buy, overgrading when they sell, or playing off the "slabbed" guarantee nonsense. I would bet you dollars to donuts that this same dealer will have "little or no demand" for your numismatic coins too when it comes time to sell, and you will get hit with a much larger discount than what you are being quoted on your bullion. Honest coin dealers are like honest used car salesmen. They tell you what you want to hear, and play off your excitement for the sake of their bottom line profits. There are some honest ones around (coins or cars), but you may have to look awhile to find one that will be completely straightforward with you and tell you how it REALLY is. Somebody is paying his living expenses.

Fiat Mutiny | 08-24-2006 02:41 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion I don't like numismatics for investment purposes. I think they are alluring and would like to have a set of just about all the coins in history. But, on my limited income for investing, I'm going to buy bullion. With bullion, you know what you are paying for and you know what you can sell it for, just by looking at kitco.com or some other site. With numismatics, you are guessing how much a coin will be worth and hoping you will find a buyer willing to pay that. Even with Redbook or some other reference source, you still have to find a buyer and just about everyone haggles, then you go through doubt and possibly desperation and sell because you think this guy lowballing you will be the only person ever that will want to buy your MS-70 1930 Liberty for $20,000 when it's worth ~$30,000. It also takes a lot of knowledge regarding type of coin, mintage, grading, etc. The above example was one I made up. I have no idea how much a 1930 Liberty is worth. I do know how much an oz. of gold is.

slvrbugjim | 08-24-2006 03:14 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Quote:
I have no idea how much a 1930 Liberty is worth. I do know how much an oz. of gold is.
The last year of liberties was 1907 However the 1930 S st gaudens $20 at ms 66 the highest known quality coin of that year is valued at $187,500 retail according to Numismedia. Now that would have been a good return, starting in 1930 for $20, not bad. Then again, this is published retail price, wholesale price is listed at $150,000, that is a dealer markup of $37,500. If you were to try and sell it in the real world at retail, it could take some time and effort to find a buyer I would imagine.

Copperhead | 08-24-2006 03:20 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingsSon (Post 339786) I concur :thumbs up
Look folks, I'm agreeing with TheKingsSon on something.

Fiat Mutiny | 08-24-2006 03:52 PM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Quote:
Originally Posted by slvrbugjim (Post 340158) The last year of liberties was 1907
This is why I don't invest in numismatics. Too much time figuring out the details.

sinsky | 08-25-2006 02:46 AM
Re: I am considering trading in some Au Bullion Good advice gang..... I think I will hold off for now, maybe I'll just keep buying silver...... rick

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