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- - Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=92820)

jhwatts | 12-17-2006 08:22 PM
Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins Sorry if posted elsewhere or if I missed it on the forum elsewhere. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061217/first...suit.html?.v=4

Master_Ho | 12-17-2006 08:38 PM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins Quote:
Originally Posted by jhwatts (Post 448008) Sorry if posted elsewhere or if I missed it on the forum elsewhere. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/061217/first...suit.html?.v=4
Great article - something we've debated here on GIM for some time! (For myself, while I accept its a misnomer, I have said - if the industry and public "thinks" the term means something - than as numismatic people we have to accept it will carry a higher premium even if its a bit of a fake out!) I sure hope the suit goes thru and they finally sort it out once and for all........please keep us informed if you find out more on the case! Thanks!!:beer:

Wyldwil | 12-17-2006 09:45 PM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins Imagine what the existing ones will be worth when they aren't allowed to call them that anymore.....:banghead:

Worldmariner | 12-17-2006 10:06 PM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 448030) Great article - something we've debated here on GIM for some time! !
I have viewed this as a total scam from day one, for the reasons stated in the articles. It also irritates me that basicly one company, SIlver State Coin and Bullion, in NM, buys up about 3 months worth of first run production every year. I hope this case goes to court and the whole first strike scam gets sunk with a torpedo amidships. I will dance a jig if that happens!! :getdown: :getdown:

Master_Ho | 12-17-2006 11:20 PM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldmariner (Post 448094) I have viewed this as a total scam from day one, for the reasons stated in the articles. It also irritates me that basicly one company, SIlver State Coin and Bullion, in NM, buys up about 3 months worth of first run production every year. I hope this case goes to court and the whole first strike scam gets sunk with a torpedo amidships. I will dance a jig if that happens!! :getdown: :getdown:
Don't misunderstand - I wouldn't mind either - one way or the other. I understand its not what people THINK it is - but I also except there is a market for them (right or wrong). As a collector, I would be fine if they stop the First Strikes....I'll be pleased either way - unless the judge decided not to allow the case to go to court......THAT wiould leave us where we are now! And, as said by Wyldwil, imagine what they will be worth if they no longer make them with that label....... Markets for items are not always based on reality - but sometimes, if not often, on perception!!

RiverRat | 12-18-2006 12:58 AM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins :D NGC sells perception,not reality. Their member services leave much to the imagination of perceived coin grading standards... There will be no winners if and when First Strikes prove to be standard issue generic coins no more valuable than others. The parties will just close up shop and steal away into the night to resurface with a new name and a new scam angle... Bottom line...You been scammed dude... Zimbabwe Silver Snaildarter first strikes are the hottest thing going right now.. We're almost cleaned out...better hurry. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: It will be interesting to see how far they take this... :D :D :D :D

Master_Ho | 12-18-2006 01:14 AM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 448199) :D NGC sells perception,not reality.
True!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 448199) Bottom line...You been scammed dude... :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
ONLY if one has paid a lot extra for a First Strike........which, personally, I have not - and wait, this field is so odd you never know - the First Strike labels MIGHT turn out, due to coin collecting "history", to be more a rarity than the coins inside!! :rofl:

RiverRat | 12-18-2006 02:46 AM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins :D MH...good point. I can't seem to wrap the old brain around the concept of an actual so called certified History of a given coin issue. I'll bet my two of my 2006 SAEs are a week older and more valuable than yours... :eek::eek::eek::eek: We'll both send selected samples to NGC for certified carbon dating ...then we'll just see who's bought genuine,real First Strike and settle the matter once and for all. :D:D:D:D Do you realize MH just how ridiculous all this hype sounds ? I smell lawyers in the back room typing up class actions by the truckload... :eek::eek::eek::eek:

Master_Ho | 12-18-2006 03:02 AM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 448247) I'll bet my two of my 2006 SAEs are a week older and more valuable than yours... :eek::eek::eek::eek: We'll both send selected samples to NGC for certified carbon dating ...then we'll just see who's bought genuine,real First Strike and settle the matter once and for all.
No need - we can just cut the the coins in half and count the rings..........and anyway - mine say January 1, 2006 - 0:01am for a date!!!!![/quote] :D:D:D:D Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 448247) Do you realize MH just how ridiculous all this hype sounds ? I smell lawyers in the back room typing up class actions by the truckload...
Actually - you are probably right - but here is an odd note - last night I was listening to the Shop At Home's Coin Vault - I love to watch and look at coins, maybe learn a little trivia on them, but would NEVER buy at their prices......... Anyway - he was saying (and I only caught the end of it but watching for the repeat) that NGC will never make a First Strike label again. Now, I figured that was cause PCGS actually owned the rights to the name and NCG finally backed out - but the lawsuit really adds another dimension to the story!! Either way - I figure with the few first Strikes I have (and I barely paid anything more for mine) I can't lose - either I am part of a group action lawsuit OR I have extremely rare (only 150,000 I heard) First Strike labels that one day will be worth more than the coins! :banana: (First time I ever used the banana! :haha: )

RiverRat | 12-18-2006 03:16 AM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins :eek: MH...take two ass burns and go straight to bed. You are starting to sound like Drill and his sub seven dollar Ag prediction fantasy. :D:D:D:D:D Good luck...stranger things have happened. :getdown::banana::getdown::banana:

Anty Ep | 12-18-2006 11:21 AM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat (Post 448199) There will be no winners if and when First Strikes prove to be standard issue generic coins no more valuable than others. .........
On the contrary, here are the winners already: http://www.lipcon.com/ Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=700 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top align=middle><TD height=94>http://www.lipcon.com/images/logo_interior.gif</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=middle><TD id=imcontainer10 style="WIDTH: 740px; HEIGHT: 26px" align=left><!-- Nav Goes Here. Nav Goes Here. --><!-- ****** Menu Structure & Links ***** --> <!-- ****** End Structure & Links ***** --><!-- Nav Goes Here. Nav Goes Here. --></TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=middle><TD width=700 height=25>http://www.lipcon.com/images/contentheader.gif</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- main content table --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=700 background=images/bg_int.gif border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top align=left><TD vAlign=top align=left width=144><!-- subnav table --><SCRIPT language=JavaScript> <!-- subtab = "our_verdicts"; //--> </SCRIPT><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=144 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top align=right><TD vAlign=top align=right width=144>http://www.lipcon.com/images/subnav_toprule.gif</TD></TR><SCRIPT language=JavaScript><!-- if (subtab == "our_verdicts") { document.write('<tr align="right" valign="top"><td width="144" align="right" valign="top">http://goldismoney.info/forums/image...erdicts_on.gif</td></tr>'); } else { document.write('<tr align="right" valign="top"><td width="144" align="right" valign="top">http://goldismoney.info/forums/image...rdicts_off.gif</td></tr>'); } //--></SCRIPT><TR vAlign=top align=right><TD vAlign=top align=right width=144>http://www.lipcon.com/images/subnav_our_verdicts_on.gif</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=right><TD vAlign=top align=right width=144>http://www.lipcon.com/images/subnav_filler.gif</TD></TR><SCRIPT language=JavaScript><!-- if (subtab == "our_settlements") { document.write('<tr align="right" valign="top"><td width="144" align="right" valign="top">http://goldismoney.info/forums/image...lements_on.gif</td></tr>'); } else { document.write('<tr align="right" valign="top"><td width="144" align="right" valign="top">http://goldismoney.info/forums/image...ements_off.gif</td></tr>'); } //--></SCRIPT><TR vAlign=top align=right><TD vAlign=top align=right width=144>http://www.lipcon.com/images/subnav_settlements_off.gif</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=right><TD vAlign=top align=right width=144>http://www.lipcon.com/images/subnav_filler.gif</TD></TR><SCRIPT language=JavaScript><!-- if (subtab == "landmark") { document.write('<tr align="right" valign="top"><td width="144" align="right" valign="top">http://goldismoney.info/forums/image...andmark_on.gif</td></tr>'); } else { document.write('<tr align="right" valign="top"><td width="144" align="right" valign="top">http://goldismoney.info/forums/image...ndmark_off.gif</td></tr>'); } //--></SCRIPT><TR vAlign=top align=right><TD vAlign=top align=right width=144>http://www.lipcon.com/images/subnav_landmark_off.gif</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=right><TD vAlign=top align=right width=144>http://www.lipcon.com/images/subnav_filler.gif</TD></TR><SCRIPT language=JavaScript><!-- if (subtab == "exhibits") { document.write('<tr align="right" valign="top"><td width="144" align="right" valign="top">http://goldismoney.info/forums/image...xhibits_on.gif</td></tr>'); } else { document.write('<tr align="right" valign="top"><td width="144" align="right" valign="top">http://goldismoney.info/forums/image...hibits_off.gif</td></tr>'); } //--></SCRIPT><TR vAlign=top align=right><TD vAlign=top align=right width=144>http://www.lipcon.com/images/subnav_...hibits_off.gif</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top align=right><TD vAlign=top align=right width=144>http://www.lipcon.com/images/subnav_bottomrule.gif</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD vAlign=top align=right width=412 background="" bgColor=#ffffff><!-- content table --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=380 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=center align=left><TD width=380 colSpan=2>http://www.lipcon.com/images/header_our_verdicts.gif On the following pages you will find some of the firm's verdicts and settlements. This is not a complete listing of the firm's work but is rather intended to give you an idea of cases we have handled in the past. </TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#cccccc><TD>Sosa vs. M/V Lago Izabal</TD><TD align=right>$25,843,903.00</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff><TD>Andersen vs. Sky Cruises</TD><TD align=right>$6,100,000.00</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#cccccc><TD>Langmead vs. Admiral Cruises</TD><TD align=right>$3,500,965.00</TD></TR><TR vAlign=center align=left bgColor=#ffffff><TD>Tu vs. Mt. 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Big_Rob | 12-18-2006 11:58 AM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins I knew it. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...829/Nelson.gif

Worldmariner | 12-18-2006 12:01 PM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins Quote:
Originally Posted by Anty Ep (Post 448495) On the contrary, here are the winners already: http://www.lipcon.com/
Wow! Holy crap! I am very familiar with Lipcon... He and his firm never take a case unless they smell the strong scent of money and a decisive victory. They made thier name as Admiralty lawyers...

mamboni | 12-18-2006 12:24 PM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins The plaintiffs have a good case against the grading companies. I believe the latter will find it impossible to prove that the coins they sold as "First Strike" are legitimate because: 1. The US Mint even admits that green monster boxes are not numbered consecutively or chronologically - the mint does not keep track of when dies are changed vis-a-vis coin runs. There are several changes during the year. 2. What is a "First Strike?" - does anyone in authority even know? These are uncirculated bullion coins. I have boxes and boxes of them and have looked at random samples from tubes, using a loop: the SAEs are uniformly gorgeous and identical, I can find no differences between coins.:eek: Personally, I believe the grading of uncirculated bullion coins to be highly subjective and highly suspect.

Anty Ep | 12-18-2006 01:34 PM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldmariner (Post 448531) Wow! Holy crap! I am very familiar with Lipcon... He and his firm never take a case unless they smell the strong scent of money and a decisive victory. They made thier name as Admiralty lawyers...
Yep it looks like so. Mass-tort, class-action is a funny adjunct to admiralty, but a profitable one. And we're talking real admiralty here involving boats to eh?

The Great Ag | 12-18-2006 02:03 PM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins Quote:
Originally Posted by mamboni (Post 448544) 2. What is a "First Strike?" - does anyone in authority even know? Personally, I believe the grading of uncirculated bullion coins to be highly subjective and highly suspect.
Hey, Mamboni: As you know, "First Strike" is a marketing gimmick. Master Ho may know more about this than I, as he sends bullion coins for grading, but the coin grading companies usually have a "receive date" for bullion coins. If that coin arrives on or before "receive date" it gets a first strike monniker. Nothing special about it, as far as I know. I wouldn't pay a cent more for a MS70 first strike than a MS70 non-first strike. In regards to grading of uncirculated coins is subjective (what criteria for anything is not subjective) but if the grading criteria is uniform then you know how to grade and what the grade means. I use the grading criteria given by PCGS (Professional Coin Grading Services). NGC's and ANAC's criteria are all very similar, and I would trust almost any coin graded by them to be accurate. As long as you know the criteria, you too can grade uncirculated coins to your satisfaction. The Great Ag

mamboni | 12-18-2006 03:18 PM
Re: Lawsuits Target 'First Strike' Coins Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 448667) Hey, Mamboni: As you know, "First Strike" is a marketing gimmick. Master Ho may know more about this than I, as he sends bullion coins for grading, but the coin grading companies usually have a "receive date" for bullion coins. If that coin arrives on or before "receive date" it gets a first strike monniker. Nothing special about it, as far as I know. I wouldn't pay a cent more for a MS70 first strike than a MS70 non-first strike. In regards to grading of uncirculated coins is subjective (what criteria for anything is not subjective) but if the grading criteria is uniform then you know how to grade and what the grade means. I use the grading criteria given by PCGS (Professional Coin Grading Services). NGC's and ANAC's criteria are all very similar, and I would trust almost any coin graded by them to be accurate. As long as you know the criteria, you too can grade uncirculated coins to your satisfaction. The Great Ag
If you can steer me in the right direction to learn how to grade, I would be most appreciative. Frankly, I think I have a truckload of grade 69 and 70 SAEs. If folks will pay hefty premiums for them, who am I to object?

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