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TheSkeptic | 11-19-2009 08:40 AM
Value of non-MS St. Gaudens I was fortunate to have purchased 4 St Gaudens yesterday, along with a couple of other $20 gold pieces. They are all raw, and don't look to be MS. Possibly AU but more likely a lower grade like XF. What is the numi value on something like these? I've been told that anything less than MS-xx really puts a damper on the sell prices for these coins. Edit: High res scans: http://www.esnips.com/r/hmfl/doc/22b...daced/coins001 http://www.esnips.com/r/hmfl/doc/9d6...d7403/coins002

Professur | 11-19-2009 08:54 AM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens $1138.79 per troy ounce

TheSkeptic | 11-19-2009 08:59 AM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Why is APMEX buying XF St Gaudens for a big premium? http://www.apmex.com/Product/117/200...or_Better.aspx

madfranks | 11-19-2009 09:03 AM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Right now, even raw St. Gaudens trade with a much higher premium than they did a couple years ago. You used to be able to get common date raw St. Gaudens for close to bullion, but since the economic downturn people are spooked about gold confiscation again and many have bought into the whole "pre-33 gold is exempt from confiscation" bs that numi dealers use to scare people into buying their gold with higher premiums. As a result, pre-33 premiums have been going up. I would keep an eye on ebay to see what common raw St. Gaudens are going for, but I bet they're getting ~$200 or more over spot.

madfranks | 11-19-2009 09:07 AM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 2033337) $1138.79 per troy ounce
B.S. You can't find a single St. Gaudens for spot nowadays, they are all trading for very high premiums. We had a conversation on this topic a year or so ago, once these common pre-33 gold piece premiums started skyrocketing.

HistoryStudent | 11-19-2009 10:19 AM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Down the road they grade them and then because of the art/antique/authorized/gold/desired by the future buyers. The crown jewels of pre-1933 gold coins. The 65, 64,63,62,61,60 - only have so many: imagine millions wanting to buy into the marketplace and the supply is down, right? The Coin World weekly magazines are NOW going crazy with coin BUY ads. Perhaps?

TheSkeptic | 11-19-2009 11:34 AM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Thanks guys. Here are some scans: http://www.esnips.com/r/hmfl/doc/22b...daced/coins001 http://www.esnips.com/r/hmfl/doc/22b...daced/coins002

HistoryStudent | 11-19-2009 11:47 AM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Join NGC for $109 bucks have access to all their web; and you can grade 5 coins like that on the free certificate they give you.

tekhen | 11-19-2009 11:50 AM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens I'd also suggest a subscription to CDN...

TheSkeptic | 11-19-2009 12:14 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Here's the thing - they said they were going to sell me 15 more, for a total of 21. (Though of course 2 of my existing 6 are not St. Gaudens). As much as I'd like to, I can't sit on any of these. I'm about to pay cash for a car and need all the capital + profit back. But I don't want to drastically sell myself short. So the grading process would take weeks, and tie up my money too long. I'm just trying to get an idea of what kind of price range I could be happy with selling them in bulk, that would also be appealing to a buyer. http://www.esnips.com/r/hmfl/doc/22b...daced/coins001 http://www.esnips.com/r/hmfl/doc/22b...daced/coins002

twenty4karat | 11-19-2009 12:23 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2033620) Thanks guys. Here are some scans (trying to upload some much bigger ones right now): http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2020/coins001.th.jpg http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4397/coins002.th.jpg
If that one '27 Saint is 'S' Mint, at AU40 it could be worth $8000! Check 'em out: http://www.pcgs.com/prices/ :smile:

TheSkeptic | 11-19-2009 12:29 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Wow, thanks for the tip! Unfortunately none of them look to have any mintmarks. The high res scans I just linked to show that these coins do have some problems, and surely wouldn't grade MS. Even assuming a low grade like XF, I'm just trying to figure out a price I could feel good about, and that would be reasonable to ask of a dealer, who would buy the entire lot (roughly 20 of the coins, mostly St. Gaudens)

Montecristo | 11-19-2009 12:31 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2033697) Here's the thing - they said they were going to sell me 15 more, for a total of 21. (Though of course 2 of my existing 6 are not St. Gaudens). As much as I'd like to, I can't sit on any of these. I'm about to pay cash for a car and need all the capital + profit back. But I don't want to drastically sell myself short. So the grading process would take weeks, and tie up my money too long. I'm just trying to get an idea of what kind of price range I could be happy with selling them in bulk, that would also be appealing to a buyer. http://www.esnips.com/r/hmfl/doc/22b...daced/coins001 http://www.esnips.com/r/hmfl/doc/22b...daced/coins002
You're in a weak position if you don't really have the money to do this deal. Just sell them at a profit to someone who can pay you right away and don't worry about trying to squeeze out every last cent of profit. If you wait too long to get your capital back you may not have the money next time a good deal walks in the door.

TheSkeptic | 11-19-2009 12:33 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Looking at the high res scans, and assuming the other 15 are in roughly the same condition, do you think $100 over spot per coin is a bad asking price for the whole lot?

madfranks | 11-19-2009 12:50 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2033741) Looking at the high res scans, and assuming the other 15 are in roughly the same condition, do you think $100 over spot per coin is a bad asking price for the whole lot?
Those coins look in great shape, in my opinion, easily AU, even MS. If you sold them for $100 over spot, the person buying them would be getting a deal of a lifetime. I wish I had the money, I would be your buyer! EDIT - Apmex will pay you over $200 over spot for each one XF or better, why not just sell them to APMEX?

TheSkeptic | 11-19-2009 12:53 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens You just made my day. And yes, I think APMEX would be a good idea. Or I could use them as leverage against a local guy who could pay cash...

thrifty_bob | 11-19-2009 10:09 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2033697) Here's the thing - they said they were going to sell me 15 more, for a total of 21. (Though of course 2 of my existing 6 are not St. Gaudens). As much as I'd like to, I can't sit on any of these. I'm about to pay cash for a car and need all the capital + profit back. But I don't want to drastically sell myself short. So the grading process would take weeks, and tie up my money too long. I'm just trying to get an idea of what kind of price range I could be happy with selling them in bulk, that would also be appealing to a buyer. http://www.esnips.com/r/hmfl/doc/22b...daced/coins001 http://www.esnips.com/r/hmfl/doc/22b...daced/coins002
That's silly. Buy a beater car and keep the gold. I'd post a pic of my beater car if I had one, but it would probably crack your screen.

philobeddoe | 11-19-2009 10:36 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 2033359) B.S. You can't find a single St. Gaudens for spot nowadays, they are all trading for very high premiums. We had a conversation on this topic a year or so ago, once these common pre-33 gold piece premiums started skyrocketing.
Thay were $1530 at CNi today, $400 over spot. These used to be $150 over spot.

philobeddoe | 11-19-2009 10:38 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2033797) You just made my day. And yes, I think APMEX would be a good idea. Or I could use them as leverage against a local guy who could pay cash...
Cni is paying $1450

gopher29 | 11-19-2009 10:38 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by Professur (Post 2033337) $1138.79 per troy ounce
Not in the real world. Pre 1933 trades at a significant premium over spot. You may not like it but that is the case today.

Roadgold | 11-19-2009 10:54 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens I would be intrested in a few 3-4

silverblood | 11-19-2009 10:56 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens I'd love to own some St. Gaudens because they are lovely coins. But I won't pay the high premium for them right now. I need to amass at list a quarter million in plain bullion before I'll start playing the numi game.

TheSkeptic | 11-20-2009 08:14 AM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens I don't see the premium myself either. As with proofs or other high end coins, I would rather sell them and buy more raw bullion with the profit. Or in this case, sell and keep my initial business capital/cash investment, and use the profit to buy some raw bullion. The scruffy Maple Leafs at $19.95 over at Apmex look good...

Firenhole | 11-21-2009 02:04 AM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2035331) I don't see the premium myself either. As with proofs or other high end coins, I would rather sell them and buy more raw bullion with the profit. Or in this case, sell and keep my initial business capital/cash investment, and use the profit to buy some raw bullion. The scruffy Maple Leafs at $19.95 over at Apmex look good...
Skeptic consider them antique gold coins, their age and rarity is what brings the premium, too me a St Gauden's is a real NUMISMATIC coin not some modern day Eagle no matter how small a mintage...IMO

twenty4karat | 11-21-2009 02:44 AM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2035331) I don't see the premium myself either. As with proofs or other high end coins, I would rather sell them and buy more raw bullion with the profit. Or in this case, sell and keep my initial business capital/cash investment, and use the profit to buy some raw bullion. The scruffy Maple Leafs at $19.95 over at Apmex look good...
Every Double Eagle contains .9675 pure gold. That's only 3.25 hundredth's (.0325) shy of 100%. Add to that any number of factors (ie: condition, population, mintage, year, mint, History, etc.). My very first Gold coin was a Double Eagle ($300) and that was with an original population of 567,500. If that boat didn't go down, that coin is now PCGS listed at $2325! Stick with the D.B's as long as you can get them. You can always go back to GAE's. Just remember they don't make Double Eagles anymore! :smile:

TheSkeptic | 11-21-2009 09:26 AM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens I just feel like St Gaudens are at a bigger than usual high right now. Not sure where I got that opinion, but when I expressed it to both a buyer at APMEX and a semi-local dealer (who I ended up selling all the coins to yesterday), they both agreed. I realize they wanted me to sell the coins and probably would have agreed anyway.... but it does seem that now is a good time to sell proofs and numi stuff, and convert to raw bullion (and thus more of it). When gold is at $2000 an ounce, I don't want a bunch of premium high end stuff that may have to sit around waiting for an interested buyer. Give me bullion, the kind that demands no premium and thus is highly liquid even in a scenario where gold is through the roof. Btw - the guy I sold them to yesterday agreed that they were all AU. I used APMEX's buy price as leverage. He is dealing with a local/smaller market so he couldn't pay me as much, but he paid close enough to my satisfaction, plus he paid cash. To sweeten the deal he also bought some things I had laying around that I didn't think I'd have an easy time moving otherwise. All in all I'm very satisfied with the deal - thanks for the good advice. And thanks to APMEX for keeping all these local guys honest. :111:

thrifty_bob | 12-10-2009 04:36 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens I can't argue with taking a big quick profit on them, but you'll have to pay the tax and then pay $44 over even for bullion coins, if you are buying coins, unless you know a better place to buy than I do. Perhaps you'll wait and get lucky and buy cheaper in a panic, I don't know. The Saints are my favorite coins. They are as real as money gets if you ask me.

TheSkeptic | 12-10-2009 06:06 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens Quote:
Originally Posted by thrifty_bob (Post 2068946) I can't argue with taking a big quick profit on them, but you'll have to pay the tax and then pay $44 over even for bullion coins, if you are buying coins, unless you know a better place to buy than I do. Perhaps you'll wait and get lucky and buy cheaper in a panic, I don't know. The Saints are my favorite coins. They are as real as money gets if you ask me.
I had another batch come in, and traded them all into various types of bullion at 3-5% premiums. Since I was trading with him, he matched APMEX's then-current buy price for AU Saints at $1435 each, and $1415 each on the $20 Libs. I paid below melt for the St. Gaudens in the first place, but just by swapping into modern bullion, I picked up about 3 "free" ounces of gold. My whole thing was just getting out of numismatic stuff (which to me is highly susceptible to a big loss in premiums when gold really takes off) and into things anyone and everyone would buy. I'd rather have more gold and less premium.

HistoryStudent | 12-10-2009 07:37 PM
Re: Value of non-MS St. Gaudens http://www.pcgs.com/prices/PriceGuid...+Gaudens+%2420 Gee I don't know the 65s are up over ten times in ten years 100% per year - is a tad better than spot up only 4.43 times To each their own - frankly I rather have a LOT of different baskets. Silver and gold in all kinds of baskets.... I expect the PRE-1933 NUMISMATICS to really go like antiques mixed with fine art - the CROWN JEWELS of America. The balancing act will be a mixture of MONEY SUPPLY (read that times four what we have now) and velocity - of perhaps HYPER-INFLATION. Historically the US FED has hit the money supply about five times what it was in 1994. 4000 B to around 20000 B now. So the numbers can get rather huge.... I expect around $3000 to $8000 for spot GOLD and take that times THREE for a MS65 common date - and you might get the round about idea - however that may be way LOW! An MS65 is now around $3300 retail. I would not give up on the NUMISMATICS but they should only be 33% of the MIX - and they should be mixed gold and silver and platinum. Just think in a few years you can buy a dozen cars for one Saint! :thumb.aspx::signs14: I expect a median home to be around 50 gold eagles of one-ounce; or 16 to 25 MS65 common date Saints......................... Like in 1980 when they bought a home for a $1000 bag of silver junk US coins ............... There is a blogger out there, who writes on Freegold, a concept developed by FOA and Another. This blogger goes by FOFOA. His latest blog explains how gold is not now in a bubble, nor will it ever be in a bubble. He goes on to say that based on his extrapolations,his distribution charts point toward a likelihood of 68% that gold will be priced somewhere between $40,000 and $70,000 per ounce. He says this, based on his thinking that there is some $100 trillion to $400 trillion that will soon barge into the tiny $5 trillion gold market. A couple years ago I said here on the forum, that I thought gold might get to $50,000/oz. to back all the paper money out there in all its forms. I do believe that gold will go to prices unimagined by 99% of the people. People are only beginning to notice gold, in the general population. MHO. http://fofoa.blogspot.com/

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