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- - Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=389640)

hernancortes | 07-09-2009 10:28 AM
Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... That there are now two confirmed sub-5000 mintage coins among them, which makes them the lowest mintage US gold coins since 1915. The L. Adams unc. at 4,223 and the E. Monroe unc. at 4,519. That's much lower than any Gold Eagle (save perhaps the '99-W Unc.) and unseats the '97-W Jackie Robinson commem. (5,174) which already sells for a tidy sum... http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Arti...ArticleId=6985

oboshoe | 07-09-2009 10:40 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I thought this was going to be about Michelle Obama....

madfranks | 07-09-2009 05:31 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Except for the first year of issue, all of the first spouse coins have extremely small mintages. The problem with these coins is that for the most part, they are pretty rough looking (most of the first spouses were quite ugly), hence their low popularity in numismatic circles. Even with really low mintages, coins like this: http://www.coincollectingnews.org/wp...on-obverse.jpg won't ever see high premiums because they're ugly! The exceptions are for the presidents who didn't have first spouses, their coins are depictions of liberty as presented on a common coin of their era. Take for example the Jackson or van Buren first spouse coin: http://www.firstspousecoins.us/image...lated-Coin.jpg http://firstspousecoinguide.com/imag...-Buren-Unc.jpg Now these are very beautiful coins. If you are looking to invest in these low mintage first spouse coins, I suggest getting the ones that look good. FYI, I think total mintage for the Jackson and van Buren coins is still around 7000 or 8000 total each.

madfranks | 07-09-2009 05:52 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by oboshoe (Post 1808695) I thought this was going to be about Michelle Obama....
I've taken the liberty to begin designing Obama's first spouse gold, I will submit to the mint, hopefully they like it.

ME CO | 07-09-2009 06:01 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 1809559) I've taken the liberty to begin designing Obama's first spouse gold, I will submit to the mint, hopefully they like it.
should make hers out of paper to commemmorate the trillions in paper her husband is creating. BTW Harrisons wife was a beaut compared to that one. HH all, Mark

oldmansmith | 07-09-2009 06:37 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I own the Jefferson, being a fan of his and there being no spouse. I shan't buy another. Think of the enthusiasm if they had done the Presidents in gold instead of "golden" ...ahhh missed opportunity.

hernancortes | 07-09-2009 09:22 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 1809511) Except for the first year of issue, all of the first spouse coins have extremely small mintages. The problem with these coins is that for the most part, they are pretty rough looking (most of the first spouses were quite ugly), hence their low popularity in numismatic circles. Even with really low mintages, coins like this: http://www.coincollectingnews.org/wp...on-obverse.jpg won't ever see high premiums because they're ugly! The exceptions are for the presidents who didn't have first spouses, their coins are depictions of liberty as presented on a common coin of their era. Take for example the Jackson or van Buren first spouse coin: http://www.firstspousecoins.us/image...lated-Coin.jpg http://firstspousecoinguide.com/imag...-Buren-Unc.jpg Now these are very beautiful coins. If you are looking to invest in these low mintage first spouse coins, I suggest getting the ones that look good. FYI, I think total mintage for the Jackson and van Buren coins is still around 7000 or 8000 total each.
It really doesn't matter what they look like. Relative rarity in a series is what rules. Tons of gold commems over the years, many with ugly designs and the two that rule the roost have the lowest mintages, the Jackie robinson and the capitol vistor center. They were unloved whem released. By any standard, sub 6000 mintage for a US gold coin is rare and worth getting IMO...

madfranks | 07-10-2009 09:00 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Yeah but if you count the uncircs and the proofs, the Adams is 11677 total mintage and the Monroe is 12452 total. Did the Jackie Robinson commemorative come in proof and uncirc? If so, what was the total mintage for both?

hernancortes | 07-10-2009 11:11 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Mad, Here's info on commem. mintage: Scroll through all the coins on the left. http://goldcommemoratives.com/Modern...-Commemorative As for proof vs. MS, it doesn't really matter IMO because each is treated as it's own design. It's really about the individual coins & mintage..... an MS Robinson fetches much more than the proof.

hernancortes | 07-10-2009 11:54 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... The list of sub-10,000 mintage gold US coins for the last 100 years (not incl. spouses) is quite short: 1. 1915 Pan Pacific $50 gold (round) - 483 2. 1907-1915 St. Gauden's -Proof - 586 3. 1915 Pan Pacific $50 gold (octagonal) - 645 4. 1908-1915 Indian Head $10 - Proof - 768 5. 1908-1915 Indian Head $5 - Proof - 1080 6. 1908-1915 Indian Head $2.50 - Proof - 1827 7. 1997-W J. Robinson MS gold - 5174 8. 1915S Pan Pacific Gold $2.50 - 6749 9. 2001 Capitol Vistor Center $5 MS gold - 6761 10. 1996-W Smithsonian $5 MS gold -8948 11. 1995-W Flag Bearer $5 MS gold - 9174 12. 2008-W $10 unc. Gold Am. Eagle - 8883 13. 2008-W $50 unc. gold Buffalo - 9074 14. 1995-W Cauldron $5 MS gold - 9210 15. 2006-W Reverse proof $50 Am. Gold Eagle - 10,000 edit: that list is of course out of date now; with new revelations from the mint the 2008-W $10 unc. Gold Am. Eagle is at 8883, the 2008-W unc. $50 gold Buffalo is at 9074, and the 2008-W $10 unc. gold Buffalo breaks into the list with 9949. The point is the Spouses are poised to make this list far longer. source: http://www.coinresource.com/docs/Cas...%20Moderns.pdf

madfranks | 07-10-2009 02:08 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I appreciate this thread on the First Spouse coins as I think they, as a whole, are very under-represented in the numismatic circles. I suspect shortly we will see that the Jackson and van Buren uncircs will total in less than 5000 each as well.

Clawdia | 07-10-2009 03:03 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... This thread started me thinking about these coins again . . . I bought a Jefferson Liberty proof (just because I really, really wanted it in the proof version) and an MS70 E. Monroe (because it has the low mintage) yesterday. I do think that "pretty" isn't what raises price - it's scarcity. Trying to decide whether to buy more spouse coins based solely on that scarcity factor, or whether to carry thru my original plan, which was to buy the four Liberty style coins (the presidents who had no spouse). Decisions, decisions . . .

madfranks | 07-10-2009 03:21 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... FYI Clawdia, the total Jefferson first spouse coin mintage is 20,000 uncirc and 20,000 proofs, so they are not as scarce as the 2008 series and beyond. When they debuted in 2007, the mint was planning on a 20,000 mintage for all the first spouse releases, but demand was too low so they began making them to order, hence the lower mintages for the newer ones.

Bullionaire | 07-10-2009 04:46 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Trouble with low mintage items like this series is lack of demand... (frankly, who cares about them enuff to put a set together?) you need pumpers with a stock of these slabbed ....and a bunch of seriously dumb buyers to climb on board. With money as tight as it is, there is not a lot of fools chasing stuff nowadays. To me, the stuff looks like high dollar Franklin Mint swill......they will melt just as good as a maple leaf when gold hits $2000.00

Clawdia | 07-10-2009 07:17 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 1811159) FYI Clawdia, the total Jefferson first spouse coin mintage is 20,000 uncirc and 20,000 proofs, so they are not as scarce as the 2008 series and beyond. When they debuted in 2007, the mint was planning on a 20,000 mintage for all the first spouse releases, but demand was too low so they began making them to order, hence the lower mintages for the newer ones.
I know - that's why I said I bought the Jefferson simply because I wanted it. I didn't pay as much for it as for the more rare E. Monroe coin, and the Jefferson is just a keeper and nothing I intend to sell.

latemetal | 07-10-2009 07:35 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Very careful hunting on fleabay using cashback can get you one of these coins under spot which is why I have 3 or 4 of them.:tongue_ma:

hernancortes | 07-10-2009 11:28 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullionaire (Post 1811285) Trouble with low mintage items like this series is lack of demand... (frankly, who cares about them enuff to put a set together?) you need pumpers with a stock of these slabbed ....and a bunch of seriously dumb buyers to climb on board. With money as tight as it is, there is not a lot of fools chasing stuff nowadays. To me, the stuff looks like high dollar Franklin Mint swill......they will melt just as good as a maple leaf when gold hits $2000.00
That's why coins like this are a long term hold. Look at the performance of coins like this over time... all were unloved or had mintage problems at their release for one reason or another. In high grades, the first 6 coins on that list I posted go for moon money today. The downside is minimal and the upside is huge.:sleepy13:

madfranks | 09-12-2009 03:15 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 1810987) I appreciate this thread on the First Spouse coins as I think they, as a whole, are very under-represented in the numismatic circles. I suspect shortly we will see that the Jackson and van Buren uncircs will total in less than 5000 each as well.
Just confirmed - the Jackson Uncirculated came in with a final mintage of 4,754 which makes it the third First Spouse coin to do so. http://numismaster.com/ta/numis/Arti...ArticleId=7631 Seriously folks, these coins are being made in rediculously low quantities, which means they have tremendous potential for major upswings in prices. Plus the Jackson $10 gold coin is one of the best looking coins the mint has produced in a long time!

StrawMan=Corporation | 09-12-2009 03:18 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...tical/lol1.jpg Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 1809559) I've taken the liberty to begin designing Obama's first spouse gold, I will submit to the mint, hopefully they like it.

hernancortes | 09-12-2009 03:39 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Thanks for bumping this. I think the remainder of the spouses w/ few exceptions are going down-down-down in mintage. The trends clearly point that way. I don't think the MS Loiusa Adams at 4223 mintage is even safe. When the series is (mercifully) put to bed it's going to be synonomous with scarce. Chasing the scarcest of these may prove very profitable down the line.

Buyingsilvers | 09-12-2009 05:10 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Maybe eventually.... if people stop thinking of them as the equivalent of "gold rounds".

twenty4karat | 09-12-2009 09:12 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... These are still gold and not just any Gold. One of the misnomers about the 1st Spouse Commemoratives (even among some dealers), is that these are only 90% Gold (0.48375). As all other Gold ($10) Commemoratives are. However these are the very first 24k $10 Commemorative coin in the mints history. That's 1/2 Troy Ounce of .9999 pure Gold (0.500)! These Proofs today are semi numismatic. And when that day comes these proofs will become fully Numismatic. As will all AGE Proofs. Also on that day, all (uncirculated) Gold Melts the same. :smile:

mojo1 | 09-13-2009 07:50 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 1917611) Thanks for bumping this. I think the remainder of the spouses w/ few exceptions are going down-down-down in mintage. The trends clearly point that way. I don't think the MS Loiusa Adams at 4223 mintage is even safe. When the series is (mercifully) put to bed it's going to be synonomous with scarce. Chasing the scarcest of these may prove very profitable down the line.
Your probably right about the value/scarcity/profitable thing but I just can't bring myself to buy them when there are other coins I really want. The 7th and 8th you put up don't look bad though. I'll probably end up missing out if you're correct because I really don't want one.

oldmansmith | 09-13-2009 08:02 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Van Buren's liberty is still up. I have the jefferson coin, being a jefferson fan, but you guys got me thinking about the low mintage and I'm thinking What the hell? Should I get the UNC or the proof?

oldmansmith | 09-13-2009 08:08 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... This is the problem, the Liberties are cool, replicas of old coins. The ones who had wives...they be ugly!

hernancortes | 09-14-2009 08:32 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... The Anna Harrison is on pace to come in under the 4223 L adams mark, if you track the mintage #'s it barely moves each week, and it's on sale for another 5 1/2 months. If it figures since she's the ugliest yet released. Her and Hillary are going to be duking it out for scarcest perhaps LOL

madfranks | 09-14-2009 08:49 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansmith (Post 1919283) Van Buren's liberty is still up. I have the jefferson coin, being a jefferson fan, but you guys got me thinking about the low mintage and I'm thinking What the hell? Should I get the UNC or the proof?
Get the UNC - so far they have smaller mintages than the proofs. And I agree with you that the wives' are pretty hard on the eyes, but the liberties are very nice looking coins. As of the last report, the Van Buren UNC total mintage is at 3723 - if it can make it to the end of the year without breaking 4000, that would be something! Maybe I need to pick myself up another one!

RossL | 09-14-2009 08:49 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... the earlier ones were minted when gold was in the 600-700 range Silvertowne reported melting some of the ugly ones when gold hit 1000 last year..

hernancortes | 09-14-2009 08:59 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 1919887) Get the UNC - so far they have smaller mintages than the proofs. And I agree with you that the wives' are pretty hard on the eyes, but the liberties are very nice looking coins. As of the last report, the Van Buren UNC total mintage is at 3723 - if it can make it to the end of the year without breaking 4000, that would be something! Maybe I need to pick myself up another one!
Van Buren 1st went up for sale 11/25/08, so they should go off sale around 11/25/09.

oldmansmith | 09-16-2009 07:54 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Just bought the Van Buren uncirculated, $641 bucks for a half ounce. Pricey, but 1/2 ounce random year eagles are 585 on APMEX. Should have bought the Jackson when it was available, nice looking coin. I can't bring myself to buy any of the others...I don't care if the mintages may be lower, they are UGLY!

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- Gold - Silver - Coins - Numismatics (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
- - Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=389640)

goldwish | 09-23-2009 05:26 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I really like some of the 2009 series - very pretty images and very pretty coins!

hernancortes | 11-05-2009 12:55 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... The Van Buren Liberty goes off sale most likely no later then Dec. 3, '09. Latest mint stats have it at 4,129 sales. They sold 50 last week. The magic # for the entire spouse series so far is 4,223 (L. Adams Unc.) However, since the VB was unmarried and is one of but 4 of the spouse series with no hag on them, and thus part of the Liberty sub-series, it only needs to come under the 4,754 of Unc. Jackson's Liberty to be the key to that sub-series. No way do I see these eclipsing 600+ sales in a month. So, it's a buy. Buy from ModernCoinMart... much cheaper than the mint price currently.

AgKanga | 11-05-2009 01:47 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2009374) The Van Buren Liberty goes off sale most likely no later then Dec. 3, '09. Latest mint stats have it at 4,129 sales. They sold 50 last week. The magic # for the entire spouse series so far is 4,223 (L. Adams Unc.) However, since the VB was unmarried and is one of but 4 of the spouse series with no hag on them, and thus part of the Liberty sub-series, it only needs to come under the 4,754 of Unc. Jackson's Liberty to be the key to that sub-series. No way do I see these eclipsing 600+ sales in a month. So, it's a buy. Buy from ModernCoinMart... much cheaper than the mint price currently.
I don't see the VB on Modern Coin Mart. I agree on the potential upside of this one...and would love to get it at the cheapest price. Also, do you think the UNC or Proof will be the better investment longterm???

hernancortes | 11-05-2009 01:50 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Check here: http://moderncoinmart.com/cart1/home.php?cat=86 In an NGC holder to boot.

oldmansmith | 11-05-2009 02:13 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Great tip! Just bought it, 637.50 including shipping and slabbed verus $691 unshipped at the mint. Now I have two....

hernancortes | 11-05-2009 02:17 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... That, and your purchase does not add to the mint totals.

oldmansmith | 11-05-2009 02:29 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... It now says "Out of Stock" Sorry if someone else wanted it!

madfranks | 11-05-2009 03:18 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by AgKanga (Post 2009466) I don't see the VB on Modern Coin Mart. I agree on the potential upside of this one...and would love to get it at the cheapest price. Also, do you think the UNC or Proof will be the better investment longterm???
You need the UNC to get the sub 5000 mintage, proofs have already sold more than that.

tekhen | 11-05-2009 04:14 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Is it the low mintage that makes the market or buyers? If (in the future) people want to purchase and cannot due to the low numbers I will agree but IMO just like now who will want to invest/collect FS? These are not like pre '33 where Au was circulated. They are not like AEGs or ABGs where investors and numismatist want them alike. I will agree that the FS Liberties are the ones to have! Au is Au and I do believe spot will assist with the increase in price. The best of luck to those who purchased as an investment and not as a collector.

twenty4karat | 11-05-2009 06:58 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by oboshoe (Post 1808695) I thought this was going to be about Michelle Obama....
Gotta point there. What comes after 1? :smile:

Clawdia | 11-05-2009 07:10 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I want to get all four Liberties in the proof version . . . already have the Jefferson and the Van Buren. Haven't been able to find the Jackson's Liberty yet. Just missed on ebay when somebody sold three of 'em while I was having computer problems. I know the uncirculated ones will have a lower mintage, but the proofs are soooooo pretty - sometimes you just gotta buy what you want to have.

oldmansmith | 11-05-2009 08:33 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawdia (Post 2010053) I know the uncirculated ones will have a lower mintage, but the proofs are soooooo pretty - sometimes you just gotta buy what you want to have.
You'll never go wrong if you stick to that! That's why I haven't bought any of the actual spouses despite the low mintages.

47Protons | 11-05-2009 09:54 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawdia (Post 2010053) I want to get all four Liberties in the proof version . . . already have the Jefferson and the Van Buren. Haven't been able to find the Jackson's Liberty yet. Just missed on ebay when somebody sold three of 'em while I was having computer problems. I know the uncirculated ones will have a lower mintage, but the proofs are soooooo pretty - sometimes you just gotta buy what you want to have.
I went with the proof liberties, because they look so good. I have Jefferson, Jackson, and Van Buren. I got the Jackson from the mint just a day or two before they stopped selling them. And the prices were a lot easier then too. Jefferson came from eBay. I want to get the Letitia Tyler proof too. She's kind of purdy.

AGRO | 11-05-2009 09:55 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... there are no pictures in this thread

1981 | 11-05-2009 10:30 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by AGRO (Post 2010341) there are no pictures in this thread
What? You want pictures of ugly gold coins? OK... http://badattitudes.com/MT/krugerrand.jpg C'mon, who here didn't think the Martha Washington FS coin was a krugerrand the first time they saw it?

hernancortes | 11-11-2009 08:49 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Sales continue to crawl. Last week, eleven anna harrison unc.'s, four L. Tyler unc's sold, etc. etc. Something that escaped my notice: the low mintage mark among PR spouses is the L adams PR at 7454. THe Van Buren Liberty PR is currently at 7234. With 3 weeks left to go, will the mint at least 220? I'm guessing no, with today's price increase and the ability to get them elsewhere, cheaper.

Clawdia | 11-12-2009 06:29 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I got my Jackson Liberty proof today - it sure is a nice looking coin. Three of the sub-set down, one to go . . .

madfranks | 11-17-2009 05:12 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by AGRO (Post 2010341) there are no pictures in this thread
Look on page 1. :ok:

goldwish | 11-18-2009 05:55 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by 47Protons (Post 2010339) I want to get the Letitia Tyler proof too. She's kind of purdy.
I like the last 3 issues too, way more pretty than prior coins but beauty is in the eye of the beholder :wub: pearl necklaces LOL oops

CAVU | 11-30-2009 11:12 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Van Buren Liberty available over at apmex...

Apocalypto | 11-30-2009 11:17 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 1809559) I've taken the liberty to begin designing Obama's first spouse gold, I will submit to the mint, hopefully they like it.
LOL! Now dude, that is funny. Lordy, she's an ugly looking woman. Scary. Tiger Woods got hit with a golf club by his wife when he got caught cheatin'. There's no telling what this scary woman would hit ya with. yikes. *shiver* :bull-smile: btw hernancortes, I think your logic will pay off. Time will tell.

shallow_explorer | 11-30-2009 11:39 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... They're not getting any prettier... Coming to the Mint December 3rd. http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/448...orgoldcoin.jpg

HistoryStudent | 12-01-2009 12:01 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I picked up a few. We'll see. Thanks HC.:36_3_12:

HistoryStudent | 12-01-2009 12:10 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by oboshoe (Post 1808695) I thought this was going to be about Michelle Obama....
I love the ICON - Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE... makes me feel like it was back in the 1960s early before 1963 and prayer was banned and we started losing all the wars. :offtopic:

hernancortes | 12-01-2009 05:53 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Latest mint stats. Notable: with 2 days of sales remaining both Van Buren's come in w/ the 2nd lowest totals of the series. Anna Harrison unc. w/ a whopping 8 sales last week seems a sure bet to finish well below 4000 coins before it goes off sale around March 5, 2010. <table style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 329pt;" width="438" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"><td class="xl70" style="height: 15pt; width: 202pt;" width="269" height="20">FIRST SPOUSE GOLD COINS</td> <td style="text-align: right;"> </td> <td class="xl64"> </td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td class="xl70" style="height: 15pt; width: 202pt;" width="269" height="20">Martin Van Buren Proof (2008)</td> <td class="xl65" style="width: 68pt; text-align: right;" width="91">7,515</td> <td class="xl64" align="right">131</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td class="xl70" style="height: 15pt; width: 202pt;" width="269" height="20">Martin Van Buren Uncirculated (2008)</td> <td class="xl65" style="width: 68pt; text-align: right;" width="91">4,334</td> <td class="xl64" align="right">68</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td class="xl70" style="height: 15pt; width: 202pt;" width="269" height="20">Harrison Proof (2009)</td> <td class="xl65" style="width: 68pt; text-align: right;" width="91">5,894</td> <td class="xl64" align="right">21</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td class="xl70" style="height: 15pt; width: 202pt;" width="269" height="20">Harrison Uncirculated (2009)</td> <td class="xl65" style="width: 68pt; text-align: right;" width="91">3,049</td> <td class="xl64" align="right">8</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td class="xl70" style="height: 15pt; width: 202pt;" width="269" height="20">Letitia Tyler Proof (2009)</td> <td class="xl65" style="width: 68pt; text-align: right;" width="91">4,478</td> <td class="xl64" align="right">36</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td class="xl70" style="height: 15pt; width: 202pt;" width="269" height="20">Letitia Tyler Uncirculated (2009)</td> <td class="xl65" style="width: 68pt; text-align: right;" width="91">2,502</td> <td class="xl64" align="right">64</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td class="xl70" style="height: 15pt; width: 202pt;" width="269" height="20">Julia Tyler Proof (2009)</td> <td class="xl65" style="width: 68pt; text-align: right;" width="91">4,067</td> <td class="xl64" align="right">51</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td class="xl70" style="height: 15pt; width: 202pt;" width="269" height="20">Julia Tyler Uncirculated (2009)</td> <td class="xl65" style="width: 68pt; text-align: right;" width="91">2,336</td> <td class="xl64" align="right">79</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td class="xl70" style="height: 15pt; width: 202pt;" width="269" height="20">Sarah Polk Proof (2009)</td> <td class="xl65" style="width: 68pt; text-align: right;" width="91">3,799</td> <td class="xl64" align="right">64</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td class="xl70" style="height: 15pt; width: 202pt;" width="269" height="20">Sarah Polk Uncirculated (2009)</td> <td class="xl65" style="width: 68pt; text-align: right;" width="91">2,177</td> <td class="xl64" align="right">139</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"> <td class="xl70" style="height: 15pt; width: 202pt;" width="269" height="20"> </td> <td class="xl69" style="width: 68pt; text-align: right;" width="91"> </td> <td> </td></tr></tbody></table>

HistoryStudent | 12-01-2009 06:14 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 1919894) Van Buren 1st went up for sale 11/25/08, so they should go off sale around 11/25/09.
I like the Van Buren's coin(s) he did not have a LOUSY SPOUSY. pun intended... #1 - I think the good looking ones are Julia (she was 25 years younger) and like Bring'em' (a lot) Younger she was... dancing too... #2 Sarah Polk #3 Dolley Madison Beauty is in the eye of the BEHOLDER however... I got'em all MS70 & PF70s First Strikes too.. banchabanchabancha doing the dance....

xinkid | 12-01-2009 09:03 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... What's the mintage of that Martha Washington proof? I just got one. :23_31_2:

HistoryStudent | 12-02-2009 12:05 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... $1308 for a gold eagle tonight at KITCO. By the time we HIT the 20th Century LOUSY SPOUSIES they be $5,000 each.... So even the UGLY ones are buy now!!! :signs14::23_30_104:

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 12-02-2009 05:05 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansmith (Post 1919292) This is the problem, the Liberties are cool, replicas of old coins. The ones who had wives...they be ugly!
Agreed, more Liberty replicas please! http://cdn1.ioffer.com/img/item/378/...ty_Quarter.jpg https://www.momssilvershop.com/store...ty_2up_480.jpg

hernancortes | 12-02-2009 08:38 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by xinkid (Post 2054307) What's the mintage of that Martha Washington proof? I just got one. :23_31_2:
20,000 - sold out on first day offered.

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Master_Ho | 12-03-2009 12:38 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... ONLY the US Mint would make the spouses in expensive gold and the Presidents (who really cares about the wives except for a couple, like Jackie O or Eleanor) in gold covered clad!!! Maybe they did it that way cause if they had made the presidential coins in gold - they would have sold a lot more???? Naw......not the US mint.................

HistoryStudent | 12-03-2009 01:22 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Mel Gibson called his PILOT "TOO TALL" - I call you "TOO SMART." The whole thing at the mint is to produce LOW populations of GOLD coins - but produce a few. That's why the HSBC bank just folded their GOLD holding VAULTS - cause they ain't gone NONE (don't you love the double negatives FOR effect!) to HOLD - can't be, right?

RossL | 12-03-2009 07:29 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2055101) 20,000 - sold out on first day offered.
I'm sure a lot of them have been melted by now.

foolsgold | 12-03-2009 08:18 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... My local dealer sold me 4 spouses as bullion coins at $560 each a few weeks ago.

madfranks | 12-03-2009 08:29 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 2056969) ONLY the US Mint would make the spouses in expensive gold and the Presidents (who really cares about the wives except for a couple, like Jackie O or Eleanor) in gold colored clad!!!
There fixed it for ya. :15_1_70v:

hernancortes | 12-03-2009 08:34 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by RossL (Post 2057197) I'm sure a lot of them have been melted by now.
That's true, but it's plain to me that they are still more abundant than the later issues. APmex, Moderncoinmart, silvertowne, others have them in stock. At a major coin show last month several dealers had them, the Jefferson Liberty, Dolly Madison and were selling as bullion, but there were no E Monroes or L adams for example.

47Protons | 12-03-2009 09:16 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 2056969) ONLY the US Mint would make the spouses in expensive gold and the Presidents (who really cares about the wives except for a couple, like Jackie O or Eleanor) in gold covered clad!!! Maybe they did it that way cause if they had made the presidential coins in gold - they would have sold a lot more???? Naw......not the US mint.................
Maybe they did it that way because they are required to by law? If you don't like the policy, blame the drooling morons in congress who passed the law. The U.S. Mint seems to be doing what they are supposed to, fairly adequately. And it seems to me that a government agency that does its job "adequately" is way above average. I don't understand all the mint-bashing around here.

47Protons | 12-03-2009 09:21 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by foolsgold (Post 2057241) My local dealer sold me 4 spouses as bullion coins at $560 each a few weeks ago.
Which coins? In what condition?

hernancortes | 12-03-2009 12:18 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Here's an interesting artile regarding First Spouse melting: It would be interesting to get the original text of the March 2008 Coin World article. http://firstspousegold.us/blog/thous...-coins-melted/ According to an article in the March 10, 2008 issue of Coin World, thousands of First Spouse Gold Coins have been melted. While this has implications about current demand for the series, it also has implications about the future of the series. The coins were melted by SilverTowne, a coin dealer and private mint. According to the article, SilverTowne has melted between 5,000 and 7,000 Martha Washington and Louisa Adams coins, including both proof and uncirculated versions. An unspecified number of Thomas Jefferson’s Liberty coins were also melted. In addition, the firm has melted thousands of other recently issued gold commemoratives coins. According to the president of SilverTowne, the coins were melted after his firm identified little or no retail demand..... [more at link]

CAVU | 12-03-2009 12:34 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... The article says up to 10 percent of the spouse coins are already melted. The rare coins just got a little rarer.

hernancortes | 12-03-2009 12:44 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I agree, a single source melting a significant # of the to-date lowest-mintage gold coin in almost 100 years (L Adams unc.) could end up being kind of a big deal.

CAVU | 12-03-2009 01:04 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Wonder if Silvertowne has the numbers and coins they melted recorded somewhere? Suddenly the known 40,000 mintage for some of the coins doesnt have such significance anymore.

HistoryStudent | 12-03-2009 01:33 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... :wub: Quote:
Originally Posted by 47Protons (Post 2057338) Maybe they did it that way because they are required to by law? If you don't like the policy, blame the drooling morons in congress who passed the law. The U.S. Mint seems to be doing what they are supposed to, fairly adequately. And it seems to me that a government agency that does its job "adequately" is way above average. I don't understand all the mint-bashing around here.
We're all ex-government employees and understand how the OXYMORON - MILITARY INTELLIGENCE - fits with Post Office & US Mint. Who else but the Government could make the post office go broke, right? Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.......... We're JUST going POSTAL...........:111: Have fun - be light - humor is JUST the way to vent - make fun of the foollish They get it in the end - what goes around comes around. Sadly,

HistoryStudent | 12-03-2009 01:40 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2057636) I agree, a single source melting a significant # of the to-date lowest-mintage gold coin in almost 100 years (L Adams unc.) could end up being kind of a big deal.
ACTUAL PRODUCTION ending is one thing a few others are: POPULARITY Affordability collectability POPULATION slabbed Gosh who know total production still available. ************************************************** **** If you study the POPUALTIONS of the SAINTS you see that the production had nothing to do with actual slabs because of all the ROBBER BARRONS in 1933. :Surrender:

TomD | 12-03-2009 01:47 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by AGRO (Post 2010341) there are no pictures in this thread
I can fix that. This Jefferson spouse proof is the only one I bought. Paid $434 for it in October 2007. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x.../TJspouse1.jpg

HistoryStudent | 12-03-2009 02:11 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 2057722) I can fix that. This Jefferson spouse proof is the only one I bought. Paid $434 for it in October 2007. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x.../TJspouse1.jpg
I'll give you SPOT for IT this MOMENT! Bless your great PICTURE taking abilities - I'm totally jealous... HS :111:

47Protons | 12-03-2009 04:44 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2057598) Here's an interesting artile regarding First Spouse melting: It would be interesting to get the original text of the March 2008 Coin World article. http://firstspousegold.us/blog/thous...-coins-melted/ According to an article in the March 10, 2008 issue of Coin World, ... According to the article, SilverTowne has melted between 5,000 and 7,000 Martha Washington and Louisa Adams coins, including both proof and uncirculated versions. A
There's one obvious error in the March 10, 2008 article. No way had Louisa Adams coins been melted at that time. The mint didn't release them until May 2008. They must have meant Abigail Adams.

47Protons | 12-03-2009 04:47 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVU (Post 2057621) The article says up to 10 percent of the spouse coins are already melted. The rare coins just got a little rarer.
The article said up to 10 percent of the spouse coins released at that time might have been melted. It doesn't say anything about the more recent coins.

47Protons | 12-03-2009 04:49 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2057636) I agree, a single source melting a significant # of the to-date lowest-mintage gold coin in almost 100 years (L Adams unc.) could end up being kind of a big deal.
The article is clearly wrong about the Louisa Adams coins. They had not been released yet when it was written. Substitute "Abigail Adams" for "Louisa Adams", and the article makes some sense. But Abigail isn't at all rare, in either proof or uncirculated. Like Martha Washington, she sold the full 20,000 mintage of each type on the first day.

hernancortes | 12-03-2009 05:32 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Right you are. Good catch.:signs14:

Master_Ho | 12-03-2009 07:47 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by 47Protons (Post 2057338) Maybe they did it that way because they are required to by law?
There's a law that says that they have to put spouses on gold coins??? I wouldn't think so and, if so, some stupid human made the stupid law - again - why??? Quote:
If you don't like the policy, blame the drooling morons in congress who passed the law.
I don't mind - I don't have to buy them - no one does - and few are!! And THATS the point!!! If they wanted to sell gold coins - they could put nudes on them and see how fast they fly out the door! They are doing it this way to keep gold sales down! Quote:
The U.S. Mint seems to be doing what they are supposed to, fairly adequately. And it seems to me that a government agency that does its job "adequately" is way above average. I don't understand all the mint-bashing around here.
Obviously..............nor do you realize how many times they have stopped minting. or how many coins never got done this year! If this were any other business (not supported by the government) it would have folded!! This is not bashing.............it is the worst year the Mint's had tho!!

47Protons | 12-03-2009 11:26 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 2058358) There's a law that says that they have to put spouses on gold coins??? I wouldn't think so and, if so, some stupid human made the stupid law - again - why??? I don't mind - I don't have to buy them - no one does - and few are!! And THATS the point!!! If they wanted to sell gold coins - they could put nudes on them and see how fast they fly out the door! They are doing it this way to keep gold sales down! Obviously..............nor do you realize how many times they have stopped minting. or how many coins never got done this year! If this were any other business (not supported by the government) it would have folded!! This is not bashing.............it is the worst year the Mint's had tho!!
There is indeed a law about the first spouse coins. It is 31USC section 5112 paragraph (o), "First Spouse Bullion Coin Program". You can read it on the web: 31USC5112 The requirements imposed by congress are quite detailed. The mint has little flexibility in the design of the coins. They have to be 1/2 troy ounce of 99.99 fine gold. They have to spouses on the front. The diameter must match the $1 presidential coins. Etc. They have to be sold for a price that is "...equal to or greater than the sum of-- (A) the face value of the coins; and (B) the cost of designing and issuing the coins (including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses, marketing, and shipping)." They have to be made from gold mined within the United States within the past year, but the mint can't pay more than the average world price for the gold. The law wasn't made by "some stupid human". It was made by a whole bunch of stupid humans, namely congress. Why did congress do this? You're asking me to explain the workings of the minds of congresscreeps? Hard to say, except the influence of the domestic gold mining lobby is pretty obvious. And the whole spouse program seems to be Political Correctness run wild. Go read what congress requires for President Chester A. Arthur's spouse coin. (He had no first lady.) If you care about why the mint does what it does, please click the link above and read 31USC5112. It details many coins, not just the first spouses. And yes, I'm aware of the various coins the mint hasn't made, or hasn't made enough of to satisfy collectors. For many coins, they don't have much choice. And I DON'T think the mint is having a bad year in 2009. They seem to be on track to break production records for gold and silver bullion coins. They've shipped LOTS more SAEs than in any recent year, but we keep reading nutty conspiracies about how they are keeping SAEs off the market.

Master_Ho | 12-03-2009 11:30 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by 47Protons (Post 2058750) The law wasn't made by "some stupid human". It was made by a whole bunch of stupid humans, namely congress. Why did congress do this? You're asking me to explain the workings of the minds of congresscreeps? Hard to say, except the influence of the domestic gold mining lobby is pretty obvious. And the whole spouse program seems to be Political Correctness run wild. Go read what congress requires for President Chester A. Arthur's spouse coin. (He had no first lady.) If you care about why the mint does what it does, please click the link above and read 31USC5112. It details many coins, not just the first spouses. And yes, I'm aware of the various coins the mint hasn't made, or hasn't made enough of to satisfy collectors. For many coins, they don't have much choice. And I DON'T think the mint is having a bad year in 2009. They seem to be on track to break production records for gold and silver bullion coins. They've shipped LOTS more SAEs than in any recent year, but we keep reading nutty conspiracies about how they are keeping SAEs off the market.
When I said some stupid human - I meant that some stupid human came up with the idea - no question congress passed it...... And you obviously missed the list of some 20 coins they were suppose to make and didn't get to this year!

foolsgold | 12-03-2009 11:37 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... And this stupid human bought several here were my 1st transactions. 2007 FIRST SPOUSE GLD PRF (TJ) 1 $429.95 $429.95 1 unit shipped on 10/09/2007 2007 FIRST SPOUSE GLD UNC (TJ) 1 $410.95 $410.95 1 unit shipped on 10/05/2007 2007 FIRST SPOUSE GLD PRF (DM) 1 $529.95 $529.95 1 unit shipped on 03/14/2008 2007 FIRST SPOUSE GLD UNC (DM) 1 $509.95 $509.95 1 unit shipped on 03/14/2008 Notice the $100 bump:36_1_25: Now they are Priced: $754.00 and Price: $741.00 respectively.

47Protons | 12-03-2009 11:40 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Today was changeover day for first spouses at the mint. Van Buren's Liberty is no longer available. And Margaret Taylor went on sale today. $754 for the proof, $741 for the uncirculated. Shipping starts December 18: http://catalog.usmint.gov/wcsstore/C.../X38_popup.jpg TomD, you should buy one and take a decent photo! :s1:

CAVU | 12-04-2009 12:23 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
(II) as represented, in the case of President Chester Alan Arthur, by a design incorporating the name and likeness of Alice Paul, a leading strategist in the suffrage movement, who was instrumental in gaining women the right to vote upon the adoption of the 19th amendment and thus the ability to participate in the election of future Presidents, and who was born on January 11, 1885, during the term of President Arthur; and (ii) the reverse of such bullion coin shall be of a design representative of themes of such President, except that in the case of the bullion coin referred to in clause (i)(II) the reverse of such coin shall be representative of the suffrage movement.
Looks as there wont be a real 4th in the liberty subset...

oldmansmith | 12-04-2009 06:56 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVU (Post 2058821) Looks as there wont be a real 4th in the liberty subset...
:cry1::cry1::cry1::cry1::cry1::cry1::cry1::cry1::c ry1:

47Protons | 12-04-2009 07:22 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVU (Post 2058821) Looks as there wont be a real 4th in the liberty subset...
Sickening, isn't it? I suspect some wacky feminazi congressional staffer slipped that into the bill late at night. They could have put Alice Paul on some random commemorative coin instead, made a real Liberty first spouse coin for President Arthur. But there is a 4th Liberty spouse coin scheduled: James Buchanan's Liberty in 2010. Arthur's Liberty would have been the 5th one in the sub-series.

hernancortes | 12-04-2009 08:04 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... We may see a renewed focus on the series this time next year when Mary Todd Lincoln is released. All things Lincoln are wildly popular w/ collectors.

hernancortes | 12-04-2009 02:36 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVU (Post 2057658) Wonder if Silvertowne has the numbers and coins they melted recorded somewhere? Suddenly the known 40,000 mintage for some of the coins doesnt have such significance anymore.
Well to blow my cover somewhat I am a semi-frequent visitor to Silvertowne and have the barest insight as to how things are run there. I can just tell you that the chance of them recording the meltage of anything-- other than nice round estimates --is slim indeed. THey are just flat-out too busy to be bothered with minutiae like that. Any violent swing in PM prices has that place going nuts. It has been hectic lately especially. A couple weeks ago the parking lot was full, the lobby bustling w/ buyers and sellers alike doing big $$ transactions, and clearly they need more employees for such times. The employees they do have are pretty good though.

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AgAuGal | 12-04-2009 03:35 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by foolsgold (Post 2058765) Notice the $100 bump:36_1_25: Now they are Priced: $754.00 and Price: $741.00 respectively.
is that the mint quoted price? or someother dealer price?

Clawdia | 12-04-2009 03:56 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... If you go to www.usmint.com, you'll see that those are the prices direct from the mint. Might be lower next week. (Might not) :biggrin:

foolsgold | 12-04-2009 07:16 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by AgAuGal (Post 2059879) is that the mint quoted price? or someother dealer price?
All prices shown were from the mint. With the unpopular reception these got I would expect the later in series to do well because of low production rates. But it just a guess.

tanner12oz | 12-07-2009 12:50 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... im going to have a NGC MS 69 Jefferson that i am looking to move....price will be HOT...price will be very close to spot...any interest? ill post an actual price when i have coin in hand...goofy stuff could still happen

madfranks | 12-07-2009 10:10 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by tanner12oz (Post 2063509) im going to have a NGC MS 69 Jefferson that i am looking to move....price will be HOT...price will be very close to spot...any interest? ill post an actual price when i have coin in hand...goofy stuff could still happen
I'm very interested - sent you a PM. :beer:

hernancortes | 01-19-2010 12:15 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullionaire (Post 1811285) Trouble with low mintage items like this series is lack of demand... (frankly, who cares about them enuff to put a set together?) you need pumpers with a stock of these slabbed ....and a bunch of seriously dumb buyers to climb on board. With money as tight as it is, there is not a lot of fools chasing stuff nowadays. To me, the stuff looks like high dollar Franklin Mint swill......they will melt just as good as a maple leaf when gold hits $2000.00
When I initially responded to this post moons ago, I agreed in part --- who would bother compiling a set of these?? With what we know now about the likely destiny of this series -- that being---- a complete re-alignment of the list of lowest-mintage US gold coins with the inclusion of scores of sub 7000, 6000, 5000, now 4000 mintage spouses --- someone who has assembled a set of all or most of the these coins will be a happy camper indeed. At a certain mintage number, each of these will function as a semi-key, there need not be a deep-seated key to be the bottleneck. As uninspired as they are, they are still at the end of the day US gold coins.

HistoryStudent | 01-19-2010 12:40 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2134979) When I initially responded to this post moons ago, I agreed in part --- who would bother compiling a set of these?? With what we know now about the likely destiny of this series -- that being---- a complete re-alignment of the list of lowest-mintage US gold coins with the inclusion of scores of sub 7000, 6000, 5000, now 4000 mintage spouses --- someone who has assembled a set of all or most of the these coins will be a happy camper indeed. At a certain mintage number, each of these will function as a semi-key, there need not be a deep-seated key to be the bottleneck. As uninspired as they are, they are still at the end of the day US gold coins.
And with the TREND at the MINT on not making MS & PF (only) coins - of course, not the bullion ones that do not require the expensive extra step(s) of work and are breaking all manufactured records yearly - we might see a real tappering off of the uncirculated (aka MS) and proof "W" coins. The more recent spouses are rather LOW in populations. I collect commemeratives - and they are LOW in populations - but these SPOUSES since start of 2009 are REALLY REALLY REALLY low - DYODD please and check on them - That said I must remark that: Profound is your estimation with vision and a little fortitude that ONE could easily Bank on it! :knuddel:

oldmansmith | 01-19-2010 01:52 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Bought a Jackson Liberty Proof (PF 69) from Modern Coin Mart a couple of weeks ago for like $ 647 including shipping. My first proof of the series; a nice looking coin, and I always like the 1/2 ounce size. I've been watching a couple of sites and the Jackson and Van Buren seem to dissapear pretty fast so I snapped this one when it came up. The ones graded 70 carry too high of a premium for me, but I might pick up more "non spouse" spouses if the price is decent. Edit: Even the 70's are selling fast, this was just up within the last couple of days and was too rich for me: See details 2008-W Van Buren's Liberty $10 First Spouse Gold NGC Mint State 70 Quantity OUT OF STOCK

hernancortes | 01-19-2010 02:22 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... HistoryStudent, If I catch your point you are saying the mint for the forseable future will be too busy cranking out bullion Eagles to mint much of anything semi-numismatic, I agree but I don't know anyone who knows what they will do with the series in the long term. But isn't it interesting that for 2010 we are seeing a repeat of '09 the only thing the mint is promising is bullion silver and gold eagles. Again no mention of proofs or buffs of any kind.

madfranks | 01-19-2010 02:26 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... 1 Attachment(s) I'm limiting my collection to the liberty sub series. Right now I have the Jefferson, Jackson and Van Buren liberties all in MS-69 slabs. I'll be picking up the Buchanan Liberty in MS-69 as well when it's released later this year.

HistoryStudent | 01-19-2010 02:34 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2135208) HistoryStudent, If I catch your point you are saying the mint for the forseable future will be too busy cranking out bullion Eagles to mint much of anything semi-numismatic, I agree but I don't know anyone who knows what they will do with the series in the long term. But isn't it interesting that for 2010 we are seeing a repeat of '09 the only thing the mint is promising is bullion silver and gold eagles. Again no mention of proofs or buffs of any kind.
YOU got it - Toyota. (smile) That mixed with the fact that they can not get the BLANKS (panchets) enough even for the the bullion ones; plus the GRIPING from the blank manufactures that somebody is dragging their feet getting them the stuff (read real bullion) to do their job in SUPPLY. So what I smell as one who follows the money - is that somebody (you fill in "who" that makes you happy depending upon beliefs) sees the writing on the wall - so to speak - and is dragging their feet. The problem is supply and demand. Basic stuff. Somebody does not want the supply because probably they just hate gold and silver - GEE MONEY CHRISTMAS TIME - who could that be? :thumb.aspx: Nah, it can't be the ???? - :thumb.aspx: :signs14: :36_1_32v:

oldmansmith | 01-19-2010 02:54 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 2135216) I'm limiting my collection to the liberty sub series. Right now I have the Jefferson, Jackson and Van Buren liberties all in MS-69 slabs. I'll be picking up the Buchanan Liberty in MS-69 as well when it's released later this year.
That is one SWEET looking coin! I'll be buying one or two too.

berkscoin | 01-19-2010 03:26 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I just bought a Jackson Unc and a Jefferson Proof yesterday, original box and papers for melt. I really like the old time look of Miss Liberty obverse instead of a "real" spouse. Maybe I will keep these instead of flipping them to make a tiny profit.

oldmansmith | 01-24-2010 05:18 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... You guys got me going now...looking to buy some gold today, ended up picking up a slabbed PF-69 Jefferson's Liberty (I have the Unc I bought from the mint). I paid $609 and the half ounce gold eagles (unslabbed) were $612 on APMEX. Seems like the Jeffersons can be had for a reasonable markup; I know that they aren't rare but I'm guessing that they have a lot more potential than years of half ounce eagles that all look the same. And most important, I like them.

oldmansmith | 01-24-2010 05:24 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by berkscoin (Post 2135342) Maybe I will keep these instead of flipping them to make a tiny profit.
Bad idea. Sell them to me for a tiny profit.

HistoryStudent | 01-24-2010 07:46 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Take a L@@K at the MINTAGES to start all 40 thousand - first four -2007.:111: Now research the last few years.

blackcat6 | 01-31-2010 07:01 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Two of the 3 Liberty series of these coins (Van Buren & Jackson) are hard to come by these days and prices have gone up a good bit.

oldmansmith | 01-31-2010 07:03 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 (Post 2156139) Two of the 3 Liberty series of these coins (Van Buren & Jackson) are hard to come by these days and prices have gone up a good bit.
Quoted for truth. I have two Van Burens and one Jackson and will buy any more that I see. I think that these have way more potential than the other spouses, regardless of mintages.

HistoryStudent | 01-31-2010 08:48 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... http://www.steinbergs.com/Turkey2009n68uc.jpg http://www.steinbergs.com/Yemen196920Rn69uc.jpg Here's the COMMANDER IN CHIEF on the COIN of TURKEY which sadly, is going toward the HARD LINERS in Iran soon. $2450 I believe. The CAMEL: just thrown in for effect & Place where America is also fighting.

newmisty | 01-31-2010 10:00 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... LOl, I LOVE that Camel coin! Yemen huh? Very neat indeed. How much could one of those suckers be bought for today? Thanks in advance for responding.

HistoryStudent | 01-31-2010 10:23 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by newmisty (Post 2156436) LOl, I LOVE that Camel coin! Yemen huh? Very neat indeed. How much could one of those suckers be bought for today? Thanks in advance for responding.
http://www.steinbergs.com/MiddleEast.html Enjoy... HS:yes: http://www.steinbergs.com/Pakistan3000Rn63.jpg (home of OBL Osama been Forgotten)

newmisty | 02-01-2010 12:01 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Damn you!!!! As if the commemorative addiction wasn't enough...now I have to start collecting these interesting pieces!!! I'm in love with these designs. Can't believe it took this long to get exposed to them. Thanks again!

blackcat6 | 02-01-2010 07:50 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansmith (Post 2156142) Quoted for truth. I have two Van Burens and one Jackson and will buy any more that I see. I think that these have way more potential than the other spouses, regardless of mintages.
Agreed, though I also think the 4 liberties as a set would do well also. With that said, the relatively low prices of the Jefferson coin is a good buy. I think aside from the Buchanan coin, the Lincoln spouse coin might be one of the must haves for 2010. I'm also thinking of the Julia Tyler coin just because I like the looks of it. There is also something about the proof Elizabeth Monroe coin that I like too. It's another tough coin to find now that it is no longer sold by the mint. I think there is a lot of upside to these coins despite the outrageous mint premiums. When they finally make it to the 20th century spouses towards the latter part of the decade I can see interest going up a lot. Eleanor Roosevelt, Lady Byrd Johnson, Jackie Kennedy, Betty Ford, Nancy Reagan might all be big sellers as much due to their own modern accomplishments or celebrity. It might go on even longer than that since there are no release dates for Carter, the two Bush wives, Hillary or Obama.

HistoryStudent | 02-01-2010 08:22 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... http://coins.coinupdate.com/2010-fir...se-gold-coins/ New ONES on the way... :RockOn:

cpthnsolo | 02-01-2010 05:40 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2156315) http://www.steinbergs.com/Turkey2009n68uc.jpg Here's the COMMANDER IN CHIEF on the COIN of TURKEY which sadly, is going toward the HARD LINERS in Iran soon. $2450 I believe.
Anyone else find it interesting that the coin includes his full name? You almost never hear his full name unless you're listening to talk radio...

HistoryStudent | 02-01-2010 06:05 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by cpthnsolo (Post 2157648) Anyone else find it interesting that the coin includes his full name? You almost never hear his full name unless you're listening to talk radio...
So just GRIN :111: and BEAR it :cry1: his new 4 trillion dollar budget will double the GOLD this year! :36_3_16::23_28_100s::23_28_100s::23_28_100s: PS in 2000 the world's total supply of gold mined for the last 4000 to 5000 years was worth = ONE TRILLION - and this year our government is going to spend that four times. Brother can you spare a dime? Or a $100 bill so I can get a cup of cofee?[/B]

Nugginator | 02-02-2010 06:04 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I found some early coins at the coin dealer and was quoted 3% over spot for them. Should I get some. BTW there must be a GIMmer in the area, two days ago he had 16 pieces and today he sold 10.

oldmansmith | 02-02-2010 06:12 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugginator (Post 2159277) I found some early coins at the coin dealer and was quoted 3% over spot for them. Should I get some. BTW there must be a GIMmer in the area, two days ago he had 16 pieces and today he sold 10.
You can get the early spouses for close to spot, many were sold for melt by people trying to flip them because they didn't sell (Washington sold out straight away-speculators). If you can get any of the liberty spouses for that price, BUY THEM. The Jefferson's have high mintages, but I'm guessing that they have a lot better chance of appreciation than any of the actual spouses with high mintages (ie, Washington, Adams. etc.). I have two Jeffersons and will buy more at the right price. In the lower mintages, the Jackson (I have one) and Van Buren's (two) are the ones to get if you can, though they seem to have dissapeared completely. Some here will argue that the low mintage actual spouses are a good buy, and they may be. But I don't like them, and I've never gone wrong with buying what I like. That said, 3% over spot is a good price for any US government coin, especially one that is pure gold. If it is cheaper than you can get eagles or Krugs I'd buy them as bullion anyway.

Nugginator | 02-02-2010 06:27 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Thanks for the info, he said something about the first spouse coins as I was leaving, partly because I asked about half-ounce phili. Bought tenth-ounce krug for 117.50 and a quarter-ounce eagle for 290.00. Plus some junk silver. I will check to see what spouses he has tommorow. Thanks again, love the thought of a pure gold coin.

hernancortes | 02-03-2010 08:09 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Nugginator, Apmex has random ones in capsules only (no mint packaging) for $30 over. Probably they will send you a common one, but who knows. http://www.apmex.com/Category/147/Fi...09__Prior.aspx

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Nugginator | 02-03-2010 05:09 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Picked up an Abigal Adams for 580.00. He has 5 left. Prettier coin than the pictures ever showed. This quote is from Yoda, the wisest piece of green rubber-"There is no try, only DO, that is why you fail" for oldmansmith.

RossL | 02-03-2010 05:52 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I think the Letitia Tyler is a decent looking coin. But I haven't seen one at a good price yet.

HistoryStudent | 02-03-2010 06:53 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... They misnamed this entire set. Yes sir RE - they shoulda woulda coulda called it: The UGLY DUCKLINGS wives set. Funny thing is L@@K at the last two at the end...:111::111: High Hillary & Mean Michelle which I will buy just for the CONVERSATION piece ALLA: "Can YOU imagine putting so and so in the White House?"

HistoryStudent | 02-03-2010 06:55 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by RossL (Post 2161048) I think the Letitia Tyler is a decent looking coin. But I haven't seen one at a good price yet.
Best of the best of the best of the best - stealing a MEN IN BLACK line...:signs14:

oldmansmith | 02-04-2010 09:38 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2160073) Nugginator, Apmex has random ones in capsules only (no mint packaging) for $30 over. Probably they will send you a common one, but who knows. http://www.apmex.com/Category/147/Fi...09__Prior.aspx
Just bought two for $562 each plus a Palladium maple for Silverbach. I'm guessing that I get two Washington uncirculateds but we'll see. If gold goes down more I guess i'll have to buy again, but I couldn't resist at this price. I said yesterday "I'd buy these if I could get them at spot" -well now they are the same as spot was yesterday, so what the hell? :bull-smile:

chinmusic | 02-04-2010 11:02 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I am so torn by these coins. On the one hand I see such very low mintages and that is obviously a big plus. On the other hand I see numbers like NGCs population figure of 440 MS 70 van Burens. 440 of anything eliminates the rarity factor, and couple that with a very significant lack of a public interest (market) for these coins and I see these things being sold at spot in a few years time even if they are in an MS 70 holder. I think we are currently seeing premiums on these coins that are way out of line for their relative availability. If you can get a high end slabbed van Buren or Jackson for close to spot by all means gobble it up. I wouldn't go much higher though. Just think these premiums will shrink significantly in a few years time.

oldmansmith | 02-05-2010 07:44 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... You may be right, I never buy 70's because the mark-up is so high, and frankly I can't tell the difference between a 69 and 70. I think the 70's are mostly hype.

blackcat6 | 02-05-2010 07:55 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugginator (Post 2160970) ....Prettier coin than the pictures ever showed. ....
Yeah, these coins do look a lot better in hand than in the photos. I like the one you mention plus Julia Tyler and Elizabeth Monroe. Also, the reverse of these coins are often overlooked but there are are some nice designs on them. The reverse of the Dolly Madison coin for example, which sells for bullion prices even in slabs, is really nice looking.

blackcat6 | 02-05-2010 08:01 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by chinmusic (Post 2163335) ..... If you can get a high end slabbed van Buren or Jackson for close to spot by all means gobble it up. I wouldn't go much higher though. Just think these premiums will shrink significantly in a few years time.
Right now if you find either of these coins for anything close to spot, then you are a very lucky individual. Van Buren & Jackson are still trending upwards even though gold has been going down. And this is if you can even find them. There are very few for sale.

oldmansmith | 02-05-2010 08:06 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 (Post 2163719) Van Buren & Jackson are still trending upwards even though gold has been going down. And this is if you can even find them. There are very few for sale.
And with gold going down fewer are likely to be shaken loose right now. Every site I check that lists them says "out of stock."

HistoryStudent | 02-05-2010 10:29 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by chinmusic (Post 2163335) I am so torn by these coins. On the one hand I see such very low mintages and that is obviously a big plus. On the other hand I see numbers like NGCs population figure of 440 MS 70 van Burens. 440 of anything eliminates the rarity factor, and couple that with a very significant lack of a public interest (market) for these coins and I see these things being sold at spot in a few years time even if they are in an MS 70 holder. I think we are currently seeing premiums on these coins that are way out of line for their relative availability. If you can get a high end slabbed van Buren or Jackson for close to spot by all means gobble it up. I wouldn't go much higher though. Just think these premiums will shrink significantly in a few years time.
Compare PCGS MS70/PF70s in lousy spousies. In this type set PCGS grades really really really really (and really) HARD. They do the same in COMMEMORRATIVES too. DYODD In SAINTS it's a PUSH - study the NUMBERS - be like a technical analyst. :36_3_16: PS buy from the mint and send them to NGC, right? After all the POPULATIONS sold are starting to dive after 2009 - right?

chinmusic | 02-06-2010 04:15 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansmith (Post 2163722) And with gold going down fewer are likely to be shaken loose right now. Every site I check that lists them says "out of stock."
Check coast to coast coins they have van Burens in stock in unslabbed BU

CAVU | 02-06-2010 11:53 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Master Yoda is trying to corner the Van Burens?:36_1_32v: Looking for a jackson havent seen any of those lately either.

hernancortes | 02-09-2010 02:36 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by chinmusic (Post 2163335) I am so torn by these coins. On the one hand I see such very low mintages and that is obviously a big plus. On the other hand I see numbers like NGCs population figure of 440 MS 70 van Burens. 440 of anything eliminates the rarity factor, and couple that with a very significant lack of a public interest (market) for these coins and I see these things being sold at spot in a few years time even if they are in an MS 70 holder. I think we are currently seeing premiums on these coins that are way out of line for their relative availability. If you can get a high end slabbed van Buren or Jackson for close to spot by all means gobble it up. I wouldn't go much higher though. Just think these premiums will shrink significantly in a few years time.
When the dust settles... which I define as Redbook finally publishing mintage figures for all these coins... THAT is when the prices will take off in earnest. Average joe collector and even joe dealer is in the dark until he can look it up in the coin bible. For spouses that event is probably many years off though. For the '06 - '08 rare buff, plat and w-gold eagle issues, my theory will be tested at the end of this year when (I think) Redbook publishes those #'s. With the low mintage liberty coins especially the jackson, you won't have to wait that long. They are not readily available as it is and interest in them will only grow.

mojo1 | 02-09-2010 03:26 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2171171) When the dust settles... which I define as Redbook finally publishing mintage figures for all these coins... THAT is when the prices will take off in earnest. Average joe collector and even joe dealer is in the dark until he can look it up in the coin bible. For spouses that event is probably many years off though. For the '06 - '08 rare buff, plat and w-gold eagle issues, my theory will be tested at the end of this year when (I think) Redbook publishes those #'s. With the low mintage liberty coins especially the jackson, you won't have to wait that long. They are not readily available as it is and interest in them will only grow.
Interesting theory. Thanks, this is the 1st I've heard of this. Great info.

chinmusic | 02-09-2010 05:35 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... As part of my decision making process regarding coins or stock trades I try to play Devil's Advocate in my mind prior to pulling the trigger on making the investment. Please humor me as I lay out some of the factors I find troubling regarding the First Spouse Series. And please remember I am playing Devil's Advocate here because I feel Hernancortes and HS have done very good jobs at laying out the potential upsides to these coins. Thank you both very much! My first issue is trying to discern the difference between rarity and scarcity. To me I believe a coin is rare when there are fewer than around 50 examples in a particular grade known to exist. Condition census implies fewer than a handful, 5 or 6. Scarce....well that is up to debate and really starts to show just how subjective numismatics can be. So here we have a modern series with a low mintage, fewer than 5000. Certainly minuscule mintages by modern standards. But these coins being Au are never going to circulate and will be bought from the mint and dealers and hoarded by collectors. A very large percentage will most likely get put away somewhere safe and never be dinged up or in any way mishandled. Add to this the number that straightaway get slabbed by a TPG and graded. Theoretically these coins will never decline in condition either. So now you end up with a series of coins that has, and I think I am being conservative here, several thousand examples of each Liberty Series Coin available in very high grades or in a condition that if it were to be slabbed would be assigned a very high grade. To put this into perspective, here are a few examples of other coins and their availability vs. populations vs. some prices over the last year or so. 1844 eagle. Here is a coin with almost the same basal value as a First Spouse, is 150+ yrs old and PCGS has graded fewer than 35 in all grades. For about 3,250 you can get an EF 40 if you saw one on the market. 1852-O eagles in VF or even EF. There was an original mintage of 18000. I believe you can get this in EF40 for around 1400.. By the way, it is believed there are fewer than 100 of these coins in any grade still in existence. And finally the 1851 eagle. In AU58, PCGS has graded only 2 as of a little over a year ago and NGC has graded 49 (take what you may from that fact). A little over a year ago the Trends was around 2500 bucks. So here we have coins that are only a year old or in one instance not even minted yet, versus coins over 100 years old. The populations for the older coins are in all three examples much smaller. They are pricier than the First Spouses, but to me present a much greater value. So, why are coins like this still relatively cheap compared to the modern First Spouse or even the UHR? I believe it is because they exist in relative obscurity. Collectors know about them and there is a small, specialized market for them but they certainly aren't collected like Morgans or Standing Lib Quarters. My concern with the First Spouse series is that from the very beginning it has been a failure and will never be popular with collectors. If that is the case then what we are talking about is an exceptionally limited numismatic market for what is essentially a bullion coin. I hope this ramble hasn't turned anyone off but it is what I do when trying to make these decisions for myself. I hope someone found it helpful or it helps stimulate some more discussion. As for the info regarding the eagles I cited above, it is freely available on the web from highly respected experts and dealers in early US gold coins.

oldmansmith | 02-09-2010 05:44 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Good post. Who knows, you may be right. But a certain mintage of a coin that was minted for years and years (what is the difference really between an 1844 eagle and an 1855?) is not the same as a coin that was minted ONCE and only ONCE. That said, I think that the Van Burens SUCK. I'll pay you $50 bucks over spot just because I feel sorry for anyone who bought them.

cpthnsolo | 02-09-2010 06:07 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Excellent post chinmusic... Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansmith (Post 2171439) That said, I think that the Van Burens SUCK. I'll pay you $50 bucks over spot just because I feel sorry for anyone who bought them.
After reading every post in this thread and giving it some thought I think I'm going to collect the Liberty, aka hagless, subset. Anyone know where I can find Jackson and Van Buren UNC (not the proof) for less than the eBay price of 1K each?

oldmansmith | 02-09-2010 07:09 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by cpthnsolo (Post 2171466) Excellent post chinmusic... After reading every post in this thread and giving it some thought I think I'm going to collect the Liberty, aka hagless, subset. Anyone know where I can find Jackson and Van Buren UNC (not the proof) for less than the eBay price of 1K each?
I'll sell them for $999 each :)

oldmansmith | 02-09-2010 07:53 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Just found another Van Buren Unc. online for 666 including shipping! Giddyup! Hope Mrs. Old doesn't find out; fortunately I pay the bills.

Clawdia | 02-09-2010 07:58 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansmith (Post 2171608) Just found another Van Buren Unc. online for 666 including shipping! Giddyup! Hope Mrs. Old doesn't find out; fortunately I pay the bills.
Wish I could find one at that price! Good for you . . .

HistoryStudent | 02-09-2010 08:13 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I kinda like the the PF & MS 70s in First Strike - but they are NOT the cheapest slabs in the marketplace... Especially 2009 oward and downward so to speak in coin production...:36_1_11:

hernancortes | 02-10-2010 09:52 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Chin, That is an interesting perspective about the Liberty head Eagle series. I'm really not that familiar with it, lately I've been researching moderns. What you posted being true, there surely is some value latent there. I mean a date & mintmark collector needs those coins. Coin series' get hot and cold and those could just be in a cold cycle? I do note however that the PCGS price guides list the higher grade examples of the dates you listed as being many multiples higher, perhaps that indicates that the lower graded examples are not as scarce as thought. Coin in a hot cycle: '08 Proof buffs, all denoms. ( I would sell NOW) Coin in a cold cycle: '95-W A.S.E. (Holding for next hot cycle) Anyway the most direct comparison I can draw with the spouses are the modern gold $5 and $10 commems. Virtually all of the sub-10,000 mintage commems command a premium, the lowest issues a dramatic one. In addition the unc. versions carry a big premium over their higher mintage PR counterparts. Also the subjects of the coins were boring when conceived and are boring still. Sometimes all that's needed to spur a coin into gear is a little mainstream attention -a new edition of Redbook, an article in CoinWorld that says hey look at this series, or a new book altogether devoted to collecting moderns for profit. The 1st book that I know of, of this kind is being published by Krause in a few months. I've been following the author's work for awhile now and he'll have alot to say in this one, supposedly he's done thousands of hours of research for it. To give a heads-up he is NOT as high on the spouses as I am which makes me hopeful the fullness of time will reveal my theoroms to be superior to even the guru of the modern coin firmament.... LOL

HistoryStudent | 02-10-2010 10:45 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... As humorist Mark Twain - aka Samuel Clemmons - one of our first civil war deserters who ran when threatened and lived to laugh about it, too: MIGHT remark. "It's mighty NICE to think that you'll make a bushel of money on something - but doesn't that something have to be POPULAR?" "If the Population of uglies was low would you buy one because you think the greater fool is going to buy it from you?" "Why pay a BIG premium when you can buy the "plain peanut" type slabbed at near spot?" HS notes: "And to be WAY MORE on point how many LIBERTY collectors are there on the REGISTRIES - I can tell you on NGC I'm #8 with only 12 LOUSY doubles; and rank #21 with 8 LOUSY eagles." HS "And even FUNNIER I'm rank #28 with JUST THREE LOUSY SPOUSY coins. Gosh, with a couple MORE I'll have the leading SET!" Humor ending: It reminds me of Dances with Wolves movie when the old wagoner pulled up at the FORT in the Indian Lands and remarked to Kevin Costner (when he was popular by the way) with his gruff sense of humor: "Ain't NO GOING CONCERN, is it!" as he belly laughed himself to tears sucking on pickled eggs! :Surrender::signs14:

RossL | 02-10-2010 10:52 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I think chinmusic puts forth a good argument for buying these near spot. That means not buying a "70" or "First Strike" that already slabbed. If the series ends up being a failure, the premium for a "70" will drift down toward spot.

RossL | 02-10-2010 10:53 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2172494) "Why pay a BIG premium when you can buy the "plain peanut" type slabbed at near spot?"
you posted that just as I was typing out my similar response :23_28_100s:

chinmusic | 02-10-2010 12:48 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Buying as low as possible, well that is self evident I guess. We all hate markups and premiums. As for the set registries on NGC and PCGS. I dont think they really are indicative of any collecting trends. Remember that they are a by-product of the State Quarter series release and a tool used by those two firms to jazz up the idea of collecting among new collectors. People with serious, big money collections do not advertise that they even dabble in numismatics publicly. The Liberty Head series is an old and venerable collector's series. As far as I am concerned I wouldn't even begin to collect that series because it is so unwieldy. It is a huge series with many, many subsets. You would have to have incredibly deep pockets to even make a meaningful dent in finishing it out. That said, I do have more than a passing interest in New Orleans gold though. And finally, when I saw that Mark Twain was being quoted regarding fiscal prudence I chuckled. Please remember that he was infamous for bad investments and went bankrupt on several occasions.

chinmusic | 02-10-2010 01:12 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Hi Hernancortes "I do note however that the PCGS price guides list the higher grade examples of the dates you listed as being many multiples higher, perhaps that indicates that the lower graded examples are not as scarce as thought." The higher grades are dramatically more expensive and this is a reflection of their rarity. I feel very comfortable with the numbers I used as far as populations, much more so than population figures put out by the TPGs. Resubmissions can greatly exaggerate those figures. Your points regarding publications or promotion effecting a coin are so true. Any time a respected specialist publishes on a series I think you will see a bump in popularity or at least interest. Another factor is how some major dealers pump a series. I have heard that we may see a major push on CC gold over the next year d/t a dealer's promotion

CAVU | 02-10-2010 01:40 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... At least they will always be worth at least $10 in severe deflation and .999 AU. The Polk and Tylers are already being priced for over 900. The Jefferson liberty is the best looking so far of the series, that coin has the best chances to be collected and traded by more people as it has higher mintage while the ugly ones eventually end up in a kilo bar going to Saudi Arabia. As HS wrote its not popular not many people will pay much for it...

HistoryStudent | 02-10-2010 02:59 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Besides the different type P.M. baskets one should be a registered (somehow) coin collector (numismatist) with NGC or PCGS or PGA or ANA - take your pick. Kinda like a Carry Concealed Weapons license in Washington, D.C. - the MURDER Capital of the world; only for EBAY/Craig's List in the future -with the coming type laws under the BIG "pink O" - and I "ain't selling some rubber tires!" :111::111::111: Imagine being really really really right BUT.....:4_1_72:

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- - Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=389640)

HistoryStudent | 02-10-2010 03:10 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVU (Post 2172761) At least they will always be worth at least $10 in severe deflation and .999 AU. The Polk and Tylers are already being priced for over 900. The Jefferson liberty is the best looking so far of the series, that coin has the best chances to be collected and traded by more people as it has higher mintage while the ugly ones eventually end up in a kilo bar going to Saudi Arabia. As HS wrote its not popular not many people will pay much for it...
Severe deflation? They printed and made derrivative monies now at over $1000 trillions... (wrap your brain around that 1000, okay?) Well then wrap this into the model: Back in 1976 (hopefully you are that old to remember) the US GOVY after hook, crook, tooth, and nail after 200 years as a semi-democracy hit the FIRST TRILLION. :10_1_19: NOW they in their wisdom have times that FIRST 200 years of America way over 1000 times - OH, the population well it grew a little - enough to make the original 1976 1 trillion go to 1.4 trillion - but dang me not a GOSH TERRIBLE AWFUL BAD NEGATIVE. :signs14::1000 times! :shine: That's 1000 times the crime. Perhaps that - $10 gold - will should could would really L@@K more like $10,000 to $100,000 gold spouse depending if they double what they have already made 1,000 times - say 2,000 times, :shine: right? To balance out the dollars like the did in 1980 at $887.50 - one to one. :111: PS the Chinese just UPPED their IMPORTS last month 100% dumping something trading something getting rid of something - what do you think that something is? Huh?

goldwish | 02-10-2010 03:23 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2172884) Besides the different type P.M. baskets one should be a registered (somehow) coin collector (numismatist) with NGC or PCGS or PGA or ANA - take your pick. Kinda like a Carry Concealed Weapons license in Washington, D.C. - the MURDER Capital of the world; only for EBAY/Craig's List in the future -with the coming type laws under the BIG "pink O" - and I "ain't selling some rubber tires!" :111::111::111: Imagine being really really really right BUT.....:4_1_72:
this may help someday vs. the tax man? :bath:

HistoryStudent | 02-10-2010 03:25 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by goldwish (Post 2172943) this may help someday vs. the tax man? :bath:
The tax man: Well if you have any money in your accounts after April 15th - that's a RED FLAG for AUDIT - they want it ALL! :ok::ok::ok::ok::ok: Nobody knows the future - but even in Russia after 1918 Lennin and Stalin allowed collectors to have GOLD coins. But I know you knew that, right?

Clawdia | 02-10-2010 05:22 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I'd like to pick up some of the newer spouse coins, but everything on our favorite auction site seems too close to $1000 - and for 1/2 oz of gold, that bothers me because it seems like too much to pay. Then again, I'm the one that cancelled one of my Prosperity Set orders last year because I was afraid it was too expensive (I did get one, but have been kicking myself on a daily basis over the one I cancelled). I've been concentrating on the Liberty subset in proofs with two Jeffersons and one each Jackson and Van Buren, and would like to get another Jackson - but then it's back to that $1000 range. Anybody think there'll come a time that I feel like a fool for not spending that $1000, just like I feel like a fool for not buying more Prosperity Sets? Since I made such a boo-boo that time, I just thought I'd ask what other folks think about these prices now. Ebay today only offering 5% on Ebay bucks - so if I buy something from them, it's probably going to be today, or not any time soon.

Master_Ho | 02-11-2010 12:52 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2172884) Besides the different type P.M. baskets one should be a registered (somehow) coin collector (numismatist) with NGC or PCGS or PGA or ANA - take your pick. Kinda like a Carry Concealed Weapons license in Washington, D.C. - the MURDER Capital of the world; only for EBAY/Craig's List in the future -with the coming type laws under the BIG "pink O" - and I "ain't selling some rubber tires!" :111::111::111: Imagine being really really really right BUT.....:4_1_72:
I am..........with PCGS, tied for #2 for Silver Eagle Sets (there was only one MS 70 for one year, so there is only 1 number one, the rest of us all tied for number 2).......and I have other things, like the Morgans listed. Like you said - down the road it might not hurt to be registered, both for when you go to sell and, also, if they even do something like "confiscate gold - except for numismatics"! :wink:

HistoryStudent | 02-11-2010 01:51 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 2173942) I am..........with PCGS, tied for #2 for Silver Eagle Sets (there was only one MS 70 for one year, so there is only 1 number one, the rest of us all tied for number 2).......and I have other things, like the Morgans listed. Like you said - down the road it might not hurt to be registered, both for when you go to sell and, also, if they even do something like "confiscate gold - except for numismatics"! :wink:
:36_1_37: oops. Somebody is listening. From my humble keyboard to your ears. Most of the foolish will find out they were right big time but wrong not to have many baskets and many types of metals....maybe...:signs14:

newmisty | 02-11-2010 02:20 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Many that listen and understand need not speak.

oldmansmith | 02-11-2010 06:42 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawdia (Post 2173229) I've been concentrating on the Liberty subset in proofs with two Jeffersons and one each Jackson and Van Buren, and would like to get another Jackson - but then it's back to that $1000 range. Anybody think there'll come a time that I feel like a fool for not spending that $1000, just like I feel like a fool for not buying more Prosperity Sets? Since I made such a boo-boo that time, I just thought I'd ask what other folks think about these prices now.
I haven't paid over $650 for them. Yes, they are getting harder to find, but $1,000? Not me. Heck, I'll SELL for $1,000.

madfranks | 02-11-2010 02:50 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Clawdia (Post 2173229) I'd like to pick up some of the newer spouse coins, but everything on our favorite auction site seems too close to $1000 - and for 1/2 oz of gold, that bothers me because it seems like too much to pay. Then again, I'm the one that cancelled one of my Prosperity Set orders last year because I was afraid it was too expensive (I did get one, but have been kicking myself on a daily basis over the one I cancelled). I've been concentrating on the Liberty subset in proofs with two Jeffersons and one each Jackson and Van Buren, and would like to get another Jackson - but then it's back to that $1000 range. Anybody think there'll come a time that I feel like a fool for not spending that $1000, just like I feel like a fool for not buying more Prosperity Sets? Since I made such a boo-boo that time, I just thought I'd ask what other folks think about these prices now. Ebay today only offering 5% on Ebay bucks - so if I buy something from them, it's probably going to be today, or not any time soon.
I have one of each so far and would also like to get a second Jackson or van Buren. I have not been able to find even one (outside of ebay) since production ended, but that doesn't mean they're not out there. Personally, I wouldn't pay $1000, but would double up my efforts and try to find one in that $600-$700 range.

mojo1 | 02-11-2010 05:29 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Pretty sad statement on the state of the US Mint when a 1st spouse becomes the best/last gold coin investment option. Nobody wants these yet the Mint forces them on us. They remind me of gov healthcare. Can you tell I don't have any. You guys can laugh at me later lol. The great thing is you really can't make a mistake if your buying phys PMs IMO.

HistoryStudent | 02-11-2010 05:39 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Next year they'll be $2000 for one..:biggrin:

blackcat6 | 02-12-2010 06:44 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo1 (Post 2175182) .... Nobody wants these yet the Mint forces them on us. .....
This is a matter of opinion of course. If nobody wanted them, then no one would be paying the exorbitant premiums that some of these coins are bringing and which the mint originally charged. I don't see how the mint is forcing anyone to purchase these coins. Personally I find them quite interesting from a collector's point of view as there is a lot of variety, interesting subsets, there is a lot of Americana to them especially on the reverse and I look forward to the new releases. Right now some of these coins are difficult to get and if they were something that nobody wanted, this wouldn't be the case. If your interest is nothing more than the financial aspects of it, then I say stick to Krugerrands and Eagles.

hernancortes | 02-12-2010 09:10 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... It's simply more accurate to say that congress forces them on the mint. The mint mints to anticipated demand. The demand is dropping steadily to where I think a basement mintage level will be reached rather soon. Earlier I naively speculated that the Spouses would be a prime candidate for cancellation given the mints intention to move away from low-mintage issues. This is not the case here since the series was started before that and according to law must be completed.

HistoryStudent | 02-12-2010 10:46 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2176118) It's simply more accurate to say that congress forces them on the mint. The mint mints to anticipated demand. The demand is dropping steadily to where I think a basement mintage level will be reached rather soon. Earlier I naively speculated that the Spouses would be a prime candidate for cancellation given the mints intention to move away from low-mintage issues. This is not the case here since the series was started before that and according to law must be completed.
So true. Plus there is another aspect that really LOOMS on the HORIZON. The simple fact that gold is rising will make your "basement" remark more remarkable. For absolute loss of dollar power will absolutely raise their prices and make "the mint demand on order" much more LESS. The short ORDER mint cook will be frying way more CHEAP coins for the future... Think those really tinny aluminum type coins (little better than can top poppers):111: that we thought were really phoney coming from the FOREIGNERS.

oldmansmith | 02-23-2010 12:13 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansmith (Post 2163189) Just bought two for $562 each plus a Palladium maple for Silverbach. I'm guessing that I get two Washington uncirculateds but we'll see. If gold goes down more I guess i'll have to buy again, but I couldn't resist at this price. I said yesterday "I'd buy these if I could get them at spot" -well now they are the same as spot was yesterday, so what the hell? :bull-smile:
Just an update on my APMEX purchase, got a Martha Washington proof and an Abagail Adams uncirculated. Like has been posted by others, the back sides are much more interesting than the ugly portraits.

hernancortes | 02-24-2010 08:40 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... New mintage low for the series is all but a done deal. Anna Harrison unc. at 3,448 w/ one week of sales remaining. http://mintnewsblog.blogspot.com/

cpthnsolo | 02-24-2010 01:12 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Thanks for the reminder hernancortes :). I was able to order one at $691 just a few minutes before they raised the price to $716 :emotions16:.

AgAuGal | 02-24-2010 01:42 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... HS or others , how much does it cost to become registered w/ one of the grading services? What does it take to do this (paperwork, minimum # of coins graded per years?)? Which grading company would you choose if you could only choose one -PCGS?)? Do the registration fees vary?

gunDriller | 02-24-2010 03:00 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2172904) Severe deflation? They printed and made derrivative monies now at over $1000 trillions...
i like the explanation of a trillion that they were talking about on a recent Financial Sense broadcast. a light year is 6 trillion miles. that is truly an astronomical distance. 2 light years = 12 trillion miles. So we're currently 2 light years in debt ... if a mile sits in for the dollar in the metaphor. like the guy said, if anybody thinks that kind of astronomical money-printing is not going to have an effect - on a lot of things - they're living on a different planet. and the counterparty risk of the derivatives - we saw some of that in September October 2008 & March 2009. And it looks like the counterparty risk associated with derivatives has increased - because the amount of derivatives outstanding has been increased. the financial services industry would like us to believe that the derivatives are attached to the aorta of the financial system, that we can't let a derivatives cascade occur because it'll hurt too much. i say we remove the parasite (the credit derivatives industry, fraud in the financial services industry) and let it die. it's hard to estimate how big the money supply is with that cloud of derivatives hanging over it. but ... the only way to balance the books at this point is to print money.

hernancortes | 02-24-2010 03:21 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by cpthnsolo (Post 2196780) Thanks for the reminder hernancortes :). I was able to order one at $691 just a few minutes before they raised the price to $716 :emotions16:.
Great, I know I should've waited 'til they were off sale to make this post, now a mad scramble to get these will ensue which would be bad 4 me considering I own a "few" LOL Seriously though, sales of these have skyrocketed the last 2 weeks, but I doubt they will threaten the 700 needed this week to overtake the L adams.

HistoryStudent | 02-24-2010 03:35 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by AgAuGal (Post 2196834) HS or others , how much does it cost to become registered w/ one of the grading services? What does it take to do this (paperwork, minimum # of coins graded per years?)? Which grading company would you choose if you could only choose one -PCGS?)? Do the registration fees vary?
NGC premium is $100 or so with send in privledges for a year and four or five free gradings included. (I'm with them) NGC allows you to register PCGS coins PCGS does not allow you to register NGC coins. CAC just jumped up out of nowhere to grade both NGC & PCGS in the better coins aftermark with a sticker. Do research on CAC - that will be the next interesting twist in slabbing. I'm in the NGC registry for common sense reasons. Not too bad either in my position. ANACS zero premium and I sometimes use them. PCGS is around $200 or so with four free grading and year send in privledges. Since they lost 11 of my pre-1933 Saints (MS65s MS64s) I kinda lost my fuzzy warm feelings for them since they sent me the :moon: for a reward! :111: I'd BUY and DO BUY PCGS slabbed but never trust them MYSELF to submit- honestly. But That's me having been royally screwed over by PCGS. If I were you I'd compare. By the way NGC sends me back my send in slabs ROUNDTRIP within ten days to two weeks - total. :yes: LIVETOCRUISE CRUZ got his back quick too recently I believe. They all three grade SAINTS about the same-o same-o hard! Moderns NGC is more down-to-earth than PCGS that have owners who play games buying coins and regrading them HIGHER for resale so they basically hurt the little guy to make their resales HIGH END resales LOOK better - but that's JUST a political NUMBERS (statistically too) opinion and worth what you paid for it - NADA, right? Qui Bono? I'd look into ICG too - I have a number of their slabs in ancients. All four are the top rankings NOW are: PCGS NGC ANACS ICG IMVHO I do like NUMBER TWO NGC because they are not snobby treat you like you are importnat and don't send you the FICKLE :moon: FINGER :moon: OF :moon: FATE! :moon: Besides that they talk to you like my doctor within a few hours - PCGS waits 10 weeks! PCGS is like CANADIAN medicine they try to kill you off before you get an appointment they call it OBUMMERS HEALTH PLAN - that's a joke kinda!

Nugginator | 02-24-2010 06:06 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I picked up two more A. Adams yesterday for 1138. :clap2:

oldmansmith | 02-24-2010 07:26 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2196980) Great, I know I should've waited 'til they were off sale to make this post, now a mad scramble to get these will ensue which would be bad 4 me considering I own a "few" LOL Seriously though, sales of these have skyrocketed the last 2 weeks, but I doubt they will threaten the 700 needed this week to overtake the L adams.
Dam you Cortez, you just made me buy one for 800 bucks total (Ms-70), the most I've ever paid for a half ounce coin. Wish me luck.

chinmusic | 02-24-2010 08:57 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I have to disagree with you HS regarding NGC vs PCGS. Compare population figures for Au coins between the 2 services for the exact same coin. NGC consistently has many, many more coins graded higher than PCGS. NGC slabbed coins also tend to command a lower premium as compared to PCGS coins of the same issue and grade. The reason for this is that there is a general consensus among collectors that PCGS grades more stringently. Regarding your issue with PCGS losing coins, well that is appalling and I hope they made good on them. They certainly promote their security and safety in any dealings I have had with them. And CAC is a firm started and run by John Albanese to grade the graders so to speak. The original idea was that in today's market with people (dealers) buying coins from one another sight unseen over the internet, they couldn't trust the grades assigned by the TPGs such as PCGS/NGC etc. CAC supposedly looks at a coin and confirms that it believes a coin warrants the grade it is slabbed in making sight unseen sales or trades less risky. CAC at first was very closed-mouthed about percentages of coins that they rejected or confirmed. As of late they are publishing numbers saying how many coins of a series and date that have been awarded their little green football. I have one coin that has their sticker and it increased its value by quite a fair amount. It was also a bit of a relief knowing I had made a sound purchase.

HistoryStudent | 02-24-2010 09:20 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by chinmusic (Post 2197508) I have to disagree with you HS regarding NGC vs PCGS. Compare population figures for Au coins between the 2 services for the exact same coin. NGC consistently has many, many more coins graded higher than PCGS. NGC slabbed coins also tend to command a lower premium as compared to PCGS coins of the same issue and grade. The reason for this is that there is a general consensus among collectors that PCGS grades more stringently. Regarding your issue with PCGS losing coins, well that is appalling and I hope they made good on them. They certainly promote their security and safety in any dealings I have had with them. And CAC is a firm started and run by John Albanese to grade the graders so to speak. The original idea was that in today's market with people (dealers) buying coins from one another sight unseen over the internet, they couldn't trust the grades assigned by the TPGs such as PCGS/NGC etc. CAC supposedly looks at a coin and confirms that it believes a coin warrants the grade it is slabbed in making sight unseen sales or trades less risky. CAC at first was very closed-mouthed about percentages of coins that they rejected or confirmed. As of late they are publishing numbers saying how many coins of a series and date that have been awarded their little green football. I have one coin that has their sticker and it increased its value by quite a fair amount. It was also a bit of a relief knowing I had made a sound purchase.
I agree with most of what you said. thank you. In Modern coins PCGS is a lot stricter than NGC. In Saints it's a push between all four of the top graders. CAC is definately an interesting double check for the system; I predict they'll have some other competition soon - perhaps inside NGC or PCGS as a adjunct company. Congratulations by the way... I'm sorry that I was burned by a company that was not honest about their guarantee and they caused me a month or two of lost sleep in the process - PCGS! :signs14: A Burn me once type thing - and I'll be darned if I'll give them a second chance. Besides they doubled their YEARLY service fees.

hernancortes | 02-26-2010 09:12 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... LOL the sneaky mint just changed the release date of the fillmore spouse to the generic "March" instead of March 3, so I guess that means they can string out the A Harrison for another 5 weeks if they want. These were selling about 10-15 a week and now they're selling over a hundred, so stay tuned.

HistoryStudent | 02-26-2010 10:23 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2199988) LOL the sneaky mint just changed the release date of the fillmore spouse to the generic "March" instead of March 3, so I guess that means they can string out the A Harrison for another 5 weeks if they want. These were selling about 10-15 a week and now they're selling over a hundred, so stay tuned.
I almost bought that UGLY Harrison duplicate (MS & PF) but, alas they were out in the slabs. Guess I'll have time to get the PRETTY boxes at the mint! I feel like I'm being TOUTED a bit in a NICE way, however. tout (tout) v. tout�ed, tout�ing, touts v.intr. 1. To solicit customers, votes, or patronage, especially in a brazen way. 2. To obtain and deal in information on racehorses. v.tr. 1. To solicit or importune: street vendors who were touting pedestrians. 2. Chiefly British To obtain or sell information on (a racehorse or stable) for the guidance of bettors. 3. To promote or praise energetically; publicize: "For every study touting the benefits of hormone therapy, another warns of the risks" (Yanick Rice Lamb). n. 1. Chiefly British One who obtains information on racehorses and their prospects and sells it to bettors. 2. One who solicits customers brazenly or persistently: "The administration of the nation's literary affairs falls naturally into the hands of touts and thieves" (Lewis H. Lapham). 3. Chiefly Scots and Irish Slang One who informs against others; an informer. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Middle English tuten, to peer.] I used to work at all the Race tracks in So. California: I used to love to TOUT! :36_3_16: I'll TOUT you on this: http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...van022510.html

newmisty | 02-26-2010 10:48 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...van022510.html Sounds logical to me.

oldmansmith | 02-26-2010 01:51 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... APMEX just put up a proof Jackson's bust liberty....I bought it. :biggrin:

HistoryStudent | 02-26-2010 02:47 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansmith (Post 2200376) APMEX just put up a proof Jackson's bust liberty....I bought it. :biggrin:
YA beat ME my APMEX.COM will not open :36_1_37::cry1: ....LOL Congratulations... HS

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- - Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=389640)

oldmansmith | 02-26-2010 03:40 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2200485) YA beat ME my APMEX.COM will not open :36_1_37::cry1: ....LOL Congratulations... HS
701.50 shipping included:10_1_20: They do seem to be getting hard to find at anything approaching a reasonable price.

CAVU | 03-10-2010 11:40 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... There is another Jackson uncirculated for 694 not incl shipping over at apmex...

hernancortes | 03-11-2010 08:09 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Nice heads up, looks like someone snagged her already.. can see that coin at several grand$ in many years time

HistoryStudent | 03-11-2010 03:41 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2221414) Nice heads up, looks like someone snagged her already.. can see that coin at several grand$ in many years time
Most every half ounce coin will bring 3 to 5 grand down the road... sad thing is what will that 5 grand buy - about $700 stuff today - so you keep your purchasing power, right? :signs14:

shallow_explorer | 03-11-2010 11:51 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Just bought 4 Jefferson MS69 spouses for $625 each on eBay. With MS cashback (8%), MrRebates(3%), eBucks(2%), & AMEX(1%) discounts, coins cost $537.50 shipped, about 4% under spot. Not low mintage, but who can argue with the price....and the Jefferson's are a pretty coin. Same seller had some Washington and Adams MS69s at same price...

Master_Ho | 03-12-2010 12:30 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2222178) Most every half ounce coin will bring 3 to 5 grand down the road...
From your mouth to God's ears!!! Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2222178) sad thing is what will that 5 grand buy - about $700 stuff today - so you keep your purchasing power, right? :signs14:
Party pooper! :bawling: But you are right!!

HistoryStudent | 03-12-2010 05:45 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 2222891) From your mouth to God's ears!!! Party pooper! :bawling: But you are right!!
Yep got me a MS70 lousy spousy today again... Tyler :thumb.aspx: My $5,000 dollar future coin...:504::sleepy13:

Master_Ho | 03-12-2010 07:16 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2223883) Yep got me a MS70 lousy spousy today again... Tyler :thumb.aspx: My $5,000 dollar future coin...:504::sleepy13:
Oh no.............we were talking about the ones that had already come out............. .....................not the newer coins! **gasp** :sarcasm:

HistoryStudent | 03-15-2010 12:27 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... HO here's a PCGS slab for you - well graded wrong coin... http://cgi.ebay.com/2007-W-ADAMS-FIR...item5ad7a26f39 $6,000 for a PCGS "mistake, Ho Ho Ho!" :signs14::111:

hernancortes | 03-15-2010 01:19 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... WOW, anyone who bids up that coin is a total maroon. It's an error slab, not an error coin, and slab errors are not uncommon, especially by NGC, they make label mistakes all the time! How much do you think they pay the gal who types the labels, really?

HistoryStudent | 03-15-2010 03:21 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... http://coins.coinupdate.com/2010-fir...se-gold-coins/ http://mintnewsblog.blogspot.com/201...ouse-gold.html Above post by HC; keep in mind that TOO many F@@LISH people get the 3rd party slab mixed up with money. Imagine the first strike and early release designations bring more, right? I just GOT my own slab marker inserts. My first one MADE said "LAST STRIKE issued by MINT UHR MS70* coin NUMBER 115,000 + I'll sell it for say $25,000 it's really rare... :111::111::111:

foolsgold | 03-15-2010 03:30 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... My local guy sold me an Abigail Adams UNC for $600 last week, in the box with certificate.

Master_Ho | 03-15-2010 04:52 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2227380) HO here's a PCGS slab for you - well graded wrong coin... http://cgi.ebay.com/2007-W-ADAMS-FIR...item5ad7a26f39 $6,000 for a PCGS "mistake, Ho Ho Ho!" :signs14::111:
Anyone who pays that needs professional help.........errors happen but not all are worth a premium........ But let me know how much you bid on it! :biggrin:

HistoryStudent | 03-15-2010 05:03 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2227420) WOW, anyone who bids up that coin is a total maroon. It's an error slab, not an error coin, and slab errors are not uncommon, especially by NGC, they make label mistakes all the time! How much do you think they pay the gal who types the labels, really?
SADLY, There are LOTS of MORONS - take a look at the 535 CLOWNS in Washington -not to mention the current administration - Imagine the NINCOMPOOPS who voted them all in - more than 50% of American voters too.......... All will soon pay around $5,000.00 an ounce for their foolishness...:Surrender::fan:

cpthnsolo | 03-15-2010 05:41 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2196980) Quote:
Originally Posted by cpthnsolo Thanks for the reminder hernancortes :). I was able to order one at $691 just a few minutes before they raised the price to $716 .
Great, I know I should've waited 'til they were off sale to make this post, now a mad scramble to get these will ensue which would be bad 4 me considering I own a "few" LOL Seriously though, sales of these have skyrocketed the last 2 weeks, but I doubt they will threaten the 700 needed this week to overtake the L adams.
I should have updated this thread last week but better late than never I suppose. Long story short the mint cancelled/rejected my order for the unc $691 Harrison, even though it went through online, because of the price increase. When I called the mint the rep told me that even though the order went through they reserve the right to cancel any orders. I was very nice at first and asked the lady to speak to her 'manager' and she did. After holding for about 10 minutes she got back on the line and basically told me I was out of luck. :censored::censored::censored: Whatever I'm sure I'll be able to buy one slabbed for less money anyway. The moment I was off the phone with the mint I immediately pulled the trigger on an uncirculated slabbed Monroe for 4% under spot after rebates :). Has anyone else had this happen to them?

HistoryStudent | 03-15-2010 07:27 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by cpthnsolo (Post 2227811) I should have updated this thread last week but better late than never I suppose. Long story short the mint cancelled/rejected my order for the unc $691 Harrison, even though it went through online, because of the price increase. When I called the mint the rep told me that even though the order went through they reserve the right to cancel any orders. I was very nice at first and asked the lady to speak to her 'manager' and she did. After holding for about 10 minutes she got back on the line and basically told me I was out of luck. :censored::censored::censored: Whatever I'm sure I'll be able to buy one slabbed for less money anyway. The moment I was off the phone with the mint I immediately pulled the trigger on an uncirculated slabbed Monroe for 4% under spot after rebates :). Has anyone else had this happen to them?
Easy come easy go. Congratulations on the re-BOUND one... I just bought 4 more PF70 for fun... Next few years they'll be slabbed $3000 dollar bills... Maybe :111:

blackcat6 | 03-16-2010 05:36 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Looks as if the mint has dropped the max coins minted (unc & pf combined) on the Fillmore coin to 15,000 from 40K. Maybe not an issue on this coin since Abigail, at least on the coin, has a face that can stop a clock. However, I can see it possibly being something to take into consideration with the upcoming Buchanan/Liberty coin and the Mary Lincoln coin.

47Protons | 03-16-2010 07:54 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... U.S. Mint's Abigail Fillmore press release: http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/inde...elease&ID=1107

RossL | 03-16-2010 09:01 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... 1 Attachment(s) that one is not going to sell many :504:

RossL | 03-16-2010 09:03 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... 1 Attachment(s) here is an image of the upcoming Buchanan's liberty this one might sell a few.

HistoryStudent | 03-16-2010 09:30 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by RossL (Post 2228689) that one is not going to sell many :504:
That's the PROBLEM in a NUTSHELL, it is... TOO many are not that PRETTY keeping DEMAND down. Sadly, that's probably NOW and forever. However, it is one of the FEW real gold coins produced Obama-days. So perhaps the best way is to buy them from the MINT in the PRETTY boxes and absolutely HIDE them from your sight. :yes:

hernancortes | 03-18-2010 01:27 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Anna Harrison just "sold out". Mint sales had them at 3,537 unc and 6,250 PR as of Tuesday, so the bar has been unofficially lowered.

madfranks | 03-18-2010 01:43 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2232453) Anna Harrison just "sold out". Mint sales had them at 3,537 unc and 6,250 PR as of Tuesday, so the bar has been unofficially lowered.
While I would like to have one because of that number (3,537), even I cannot bring myself to own a coin that ugly. I think I'm sticking with the liberty sub-series; I'll be looking to pick up Buchanan's liberty when it debuts. Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoryStudent (Post 2227380) HO here's a PCGS slab for you - well graded wrong coin... http://cgi.ebay.com/2007-W-ADAMS-FIR...item5ad7a26f39 $6,000 for a PCGS "mistake, Ho Ho Ho!" :signs14::111:
Once I saw a clipped planchet error silver dime slabbed in an old school PCGS holder with a mis-spelled word. An error coin and an error slab would be cool to own, no doubt.

HistoryStudent | 03-18-2010 02:38 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 2232476) While I would like to have one because of that number (3,537), even I cannot bring myself to own a coin that ugly. I think I'm sticking with the liberty sub-series; I'll be looking to pick up Buchanan's liberty when it debuts. Once I saw a clipped planchet error silver dime slabbed in an old school PCGS holder with a mis-spelled word. An error coin and an error slab would be cool to own, no doubt.
Yep, some fool would a or could a or should a: PAID $10,000.00 for that one...:111:

oldmansmith | 03-18-2010 09:05 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 2232476) While I would like to have one because of that number (3,537), even I cannot bring myself to own a coin that ugly. I think I'm sticking with the liberty sub-series; I'll be looking to pick up Buchanan's liberty when it debuts.
Got to agree with you, paid 800 bucks for a ms-70 and it is fugly. The only coin I've ever bought specifically to sell. Want to buy it for $1,000.00?

oldmansmith | 03-18-2010 09:07 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by RossL (Post 2228696) here is an image of the upcoming Buchanan's liberty this one might sell a few.
And I'm guessing bump up the demand for the others in the liberty series.:23_28_100s:

HistoryStudent | 03-18-2010 11:40 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... The actual problem is that when they started in 2007 they were half the price they are today right from the US Mint. Then if you want something slabbed add another 2 to 4 hundred depending upon the DESIGNER SLAB marking you want like First Strike or Early Release MS/PF 70s. I see the ADD FEEBAY prices at $1200 for the same... Mucho Denero - is killing off the LITTLE guy I'd venture to mention. :36_1_32v::signs14:

oldmansmith | 03-22-2010 04:14 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Jackson's Liberty PF 69 NGC for $629 at Modern Coin Mart http://www.moderncoinmart.com/cart1/home.php?cat=86 I'd buy it but they also had a Van Buren PF 70 for $799 and I bought that since I don't have the proof. Like to see another GIMmer get the Jackson. Mrs. Old will kill me if I buy it, so help me out!.

hernancortes | 03-22-2010 05:26 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... YOU DA (old) MAN! Thanks for the heads-up, got it 4 ma'self, great price on that one.

CAVU | 03-22-2010 05:31 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Gone fast. Good snag HC that was the lowest price of all the proofs listed maybe because it was graded 69. Saving up for the Buchanan's liberty uncirculated as not into collecting proofs. The proofs have higher mintages too.

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oldmansmith | 03-22-2010 05:43 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVU (Post 2238620) Gone fast. Good snag HC that was the lowest price of all the proofs listed maybe because it was graded 69. Saving up for the Buchanan's liberty uncirculated as not into collecting proofs. The proofs have higher mintages too.
Agreed, but I LIKE the proofs and am planning on keeping them. I'll sell the UNCs when the time is right, that's my plan at least.

hernancortes | 03-22-2010 05:45 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... I never really got the whole 69/70 thing which is why I am happy to jump on a 69 when the price is nice. The 70 grade doesn't really warrant a premium for a coin which theoretically to the unaided eye looks identical... but thats just me. To return the heads-up favor there is a L Adams Proof at MCM for the same price right now which will not last either.

hernancortes | 03-22-2010 05:49 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansmith (Post 2233173) And I'm guessing bump up the demand for the others in the liberty series.:23_28_100s:
Yes I think there is quite a bit of growing chatter about the sub-series that the Buchanan may sell out quite fast with the new mintage limits in place, and no ordering limits.

oldmansmith | 03-22-2010 05:51 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by hernancortes (Post 2238640) I never really got the whole 69/70 thing which is why I am happy to jump on a 69 when the price is nice. The 70 grade doesn't really warrant a premium for a coin which theoretically to the unaided eye looks identical... but thats just me. To return the heads-up favor there is a L Adams Proof at MCM for the same price right now which will not last either.
Agreed, I would have preferred a Van Buren PF 69 but I bought it since I don't have one and they seem hard to come by. I already have two Jacksons in PF 69, but you definitely bought it at a great price. As HS says, when gold hits the moon a little bit here or ther won't really matter.

cpthnsolo | 03-23-2010 11:26 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansmith (Post 2238528) Jackson's Liberty PF 69 NGC for $629 at Modern Coin Mart
UGH.... I check MCM and coast to coast *daily* for 2008 first spouse coins and didn't see these yesterday when I checked. I guess they put them up later in the day :(. Meh, win some lose some I suppose. Can anyone else recommend other online dealers that sell FS coins? I've signed up for e-mail alerts from apmex for the coins I'm looking for but so far that hasn't worked out either.

hernancortes | 03-23-2010 11:30 AM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... Quote:
Originally Posted by cpthnsolo (Post 2239731) UGH.... I check MCM and coast to coast *daily* for 2008 first spouse coins and didn't see these yesterday when I checked. I guess they put them up later in the day :(. Meh, win some lose some I suppose. Can anyone else recommend other online dealers that sell FS coins? I've signed up for e-mail alerts from apmex for the coins I'm looking for but so far that hasn't worked out either.
coastcoin.com silvertowne.com goldeneaglecoin.com none of these has a great inventory right now.

HistoryStudent | 03-23-2010 07:10 PM
Re: Hate on the First Spouses if you wish, but do consider... When you really think about it there are just a few of the SPOUSES OUT now. So if you collect either the MS or PF you can keep the number(s) down. http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/...use/?flash=yes They get HIGH numbers too at NGC in the registry; if that's of interest to you - to PROVE that you really are a coin NUMISMATIC collector. :23_30_104: Best to YA! PS the boxes from the MINT are first class - too bad I have them slabbed... :coolbeer: APMEX shipped me a few today.... YIPEE!

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