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- Gold - Silver - Coins - Numismatics (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
- - Home Smelter? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=434007)

drewfu | 12-21-2009 09:56 PM
Home Smelter? Any of you survival or handy folks out there ever smelt your own coins? Sounds like it might be a fun project on a weekend when I didn't have anything else going on.

Saul Mine | 12-22-2009 01:22 AM
Re: Home Smelter? The basic reference is De Re Metallica. Get the edition by Herbert Hoover. Then forget it. It involves lead smoke, which kills things. The neighbors will complain.

gunDriller | 12-22-2009 09:09 AM
Re: Home Smelter? you can buy a kiln for about $500 (1998 dollars). with an inside volume about the size of a soccer ball. graphite crucible - about $80 (1999 dollars). liquid volume 1 pint, don't know how much that is in ounces of PM's. safety equipment - gloves, apron, headshield, etc. once you have the molten metal, you need something to put it in. when i was learning i paid a friend to make a steel cavity mold. i made the mistake of choosing a very stubborn steel alloy. took 20 hours to machine, @ $25 an hour ... $500. my first melts i did in a campfire (i.e., not using the kiln). very educational. got one perfect silver cross out of it. taught me why they use centrifugal or vacuum casting to inject the hot metal into the mold, it's really a trick to get the liquid metal to fill the mold. anyway, it gets more expensive. but it is fun to melt metal. although it is an extreme sport - you are playing with forces of nature.

drewfu | 12-22-2009 10:34 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller (Post 2088787) you can buy a kiln for about $500 (1998 dollars). with an inside volume about the size of a soccer ball. graphite crucible - about $80 (1999 dollars). liquid volume 1 pint, don't know how much that is in ounces of PM's. safety equipment - gloves, apron, headshield, etc. once you have the molten metal, you need something to put it in. when i was learning i paid a friend to make a steel cavity mold. i made the mistake of choosing a very stubborn steel alloy. took 20 hours to machine, @ $25 an hour ... $500. my first melts i did in a campfire (i.e., not using the kiln). very educational. got one perfect silver cross out of it. taught me why they use centrifugal or vacuum casting to inject the hot metal into the mold, it's really a trick to get the liquid metal to fill the mold. anyway, it gets more expensive. but it is fun to melt metal. although it is an extreme sport - you are playing with forces of nature.
My idea was to make something out of 90% silver junk coins, maybe just large bars that make transport and storage easier. Are the differing melting points of silver and copper much of a problem?

TheSkeptic | 12-22-2009 10:36 AM
Re: Home Smelter? If you have fractional, recognizable, highly liquid precious metal, why turn it into something that no one will buy without an assay?

drewfu | 12-22-2009 10:37 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2088883) If you have fractional, recognizable, highly liquid precious metal, why turn it into something that no one will buy without an assay?
Why not get it assayed?

ShortJohnSilver | 12-22-2009 10:39 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 2088878) My idea was to make something out of 90% silver junk coins, maybe just large bars that make transport and storage easier. Are the differing melting points of silver and copper much of a problem?
I would say that is a pretty bad idea. Sell the junk silver or trade it in for ready-made, already guaranteed, silver bars of the size you desire.

drewfu | 12-22-2009 10:45 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortJohnSilver (Post 2088887) I would say that is a pretty bad idea. Sell the junk silver or trade it in for ready-made, already guaranteed, silver bars of the size you desire.
I want a 13.77 ounce bar with my face stamped on it. Where are those sold?

Irons | 12-22-2009 10:47 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 2088878) My idea was to make something out of 90% silver junk coins, maybe just large bars that make transport and storage easier. Are the differing melting points of silver and copper much of a problem?
Buy silver shot cheap and use that to make your bars. Junk silver is very easy to sell so I woulden't melt it, The next time I load up on silver it will be bags of junk silver.

drewfu | 12-22-2009 10:50 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by Irons (Post 2088904) Buy silver shot cheap and use that to make your bars. Junk silver is very easy to sell so I woulden't melt it, The next time I load up on silver it will be bags of junk silver.
Ok, that's a good suggestion. I can see the value in using shot over a premade coin and preserving the 90%. Watch those bags of junk, there are reporting requirements $1000 and over.

TheSkeptic | 12-22-2009 10:50 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 2088884) Why not get it assayed?
Um, because it takes time, costs money, and makes the transaction a pain in the ass. Plus you are probably not going to get the same percentages for impure silver than you would if you used shot or just bought a premade .999 bar. Who do you think is going to pay for the assay? Not the guy buying from you, that's for sure...

drewfu | 12-22-2009 10:52 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2088926) Um, because it takes time, costs money, and makes the transaction a pain in the ass.
You're right but I am mainly doing this as a hobby, this isn't my entire hoard. I just want to learn a bit about smelting and make some items. Could be useful for making my own bullets, too

TheSkeptic | 12-22-2009 10:54 AM
Re: Home Smelter? LOL - Bullets made from old coinage. That would be pretty interesting. I have a shitload of contact silver if you want to melt that... can't find anyone else to do it. :111:

drewfu | 12-22-2009 11:00 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic (Post 2088936) LOL - Bullets made from old coinage. That would be pretty interesting. I have a shitload of contact silver if you want to melt that... can't find anyone else to do it. :111:
I bet old nickels would make great bullets, not that I would try that in light of the melting ban on them.

Irons | 12-22-2009 11:05 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 2088932) You're right but I am mainly doing this as a hobby, this isn't my entire hoard. I just want to learn a bit about smelting and make some items. Could be useful for making my own bullets, too
Friggin' werewolves are getting a bit thick around here again too, Silver buckshot worked great last time!:beer:

drewfu | 12-22-2009 11:06 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by Irons (Post 2088955) Friggin' werewolves are getting a bit thick around here again too, Silver buckshot worked great last time!:beer:
Yeah, I thought about that. I also need some wooden bullets for the Vampire problem.

Irons | 12-22-2009 11:16 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 2088961) Yeah, I thought about that. I also need some wooden bullets for the Vampire problem.
I just use lead buckshot on them, they can't bite you with a pulped head.

drewfu | 12-22-2009 11:18 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by Irons (Post 2088979) I just use lead buckshot on them, they can't bite you with a pulped head.
Part of the problem around here is that the next town over has a large coffin manufacturing plant. Some buildings have roaches, some have mice, this place... I wonder if a super bright spotlight would have the same effect as the sun. Have to try that tonight...

Mr. Shiny | 12-22-2009 11:39 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Number 1, you are talking about melting your coins, not smelting. Smelting is a thermo-chemical process used to convert ore to metal. As Saul stated forget all about it, you'll end up with rich kin, 'cause you'll be dead. Number 2, melt all the coin, shot and bars/rounds you want, make a BIG ingot out of it. Because, while it'll be fun to do, when it comes time to sell, every little bar you make will require an assay, which comes out of your settlement. So, make it large, eat the four assays you'll pay for (two from the top, two from the bottom), or just think about doing it and save your money. Case in point: http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...1&d=1259451387 This bar in spite of being clearly marked 'silver', '.999' is a homemade hand stamped ingot that could've been made in someone garage.

Junk Woody | 12-22-2009 12:48 PM
Re: Home Smelter? If you haven't tried it before may I suggest making a ring out of a silver half dollar or quarter. http://homepage.mac.com/johnhuber/Co...toAlbum20.html Here's a ring I made yesterday using a Washington quarter. http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...r/P1020734.jpg

gunDriller | 12-22-2009 01:15 PM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 2088878) My idea was to make something out of 90% silver junk coins, maybe just large bars that make transport and storage easier. Are the differing melting points of silver and copper much of a problem?
in terms of melting 90% or 92.5% silver, no, it doesn't separate into different components. 9X% silver in, 9X% silver out. BUT - if you go to re-sell it, who will buy it ? it's a gray lump of metal. i think a bag of old dimes or whatever 90% silver you might have is way more liquid (marketable) than if it were melted down into one big lump. also - if someone was going to buy it for making jewelry - they would want smaller pieces. e.g. if you have a jewelry design & you weigh your wax piece (for lost wax investment casting), you end up with some kind of target weight - e.g., 2.3 ounces of silver. but if all you have is a 5 pound bar of silver ... get out the hacksaw ? i actually sawed a 10 ounce bar into pieces about 10 years ago (temporary insanity). it's a LOT of work. it's far more functional for a jewelry fabricator to have smaller pieces of silver. of course, there is a "fondle factor". i melted some silver dust (left over from all that sawing & filing & sanding) and got a 3.1 ounce piece the same shape as the bottom of my graphite crucible (not surprisingly). sort of the shape of a miniature flying saucer. when i walk for exercise, i always hold it in my hand. it gets shinier, and my thumb gets shinier. a Win-Win situation. :bear_thumb: having said all that, basically giving you 2 reasons NOT to melt the silver (less marketable to silver-philes; less marketable to jewelry makers), there is a very good reason to melt the silver - that's how you learn about metal-working. of course, if your goal is to learn to melt stuff, it's cheaper if you use copper. nickel melts at a higher temp, i believe above 2000 F. not tempted to try it with cupro-nickel.

Ragnarok | 12-22-2009 08:05 PM
Re: Home Smelter? Got an old microwave? :wink: http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=37452 R.

Irons | 12-22-2009 08:12 PM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 2088285) Any of you survival or handy folks out there ever smelt your own coins? Sounds like it might be a fun project on a weekend when I didn't have anything else going on.
You'll probably shoot your eye out.

Ag_man | 12-22-2009 08:30 PM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnarok (Post 2089843) Got an old microwave? :wink: http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=37452 R.
Hard to believe I missed that thread! Very good R, a poor man's induction furnace. A worthy experiment, there's some possibilities there, I think.

Saul Mine | 12-23-2009 02:02 AM
Re: Home Smelter? I did this last year. I spent about $1,500 learning the business. I can send you a few dozen links and you may be able to start a foundry for a little over $1,000. If you only want to melt an ounce or so you can do that with a propane torch and a ladle. I paid $27 for my ladle and $65 for my mold. (A one ounce mold would cost less.) But the basic question is still "Why bother?"

winslo | 12-23-2009 11:19 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Shiny (Post 2089010) Number 1, you are talking about melting your coins, not smelting. Smelting is a thermo-chemical process used to convert ore to metal. As Saul stated forget all about it, you'll end up with rich kin, 'cause you'll be dead. Number 2, melt all the coin, shot and bars/rounds you want, make a BIG ingot out of it. Because, while it'll be fun to do, when it comes time to sell, every little bar you make will require an assay, which comes out of your settlement. So, make it large, eat the four assays you'll pay for (two from the top, two from the bottom), or just think about doing it and save your money. Case in point: http://goldismoney.info/forums/attac...1&d=1259451387 This bar in spite of being clearly marked 'silver', '.999' is a homemade hand stamped ingot that could've been made in someone garage.
So are you implying that any silver product that is not a government coinage does not have value without an assay card?

Mr. Shiny | 12-23-2009 11:54 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by winslo (Post 2090871) So are you implying that any silver product that is not a government coinage does not have value without an assay card?
No, I am stating that homemade ingots are suspect, always have been. Just because some jamoke with a set of letter/number stamps imprints brass with '.9999 Au' doesn't make it gold. Just like putting some BMW logos on a Volkwagen doesn't make it a luxury automobile.

Coin Finger | 01-09-2010 02:36 PM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
I want a 13.77 ounce bar with my face stamped on it. Where are those sold?
Drewfu..Just a heads up,I saw one at my local coin shop,but i think its gone now!!!....:111:

TomD | 01-10-2010 12:26 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Quote:
Originally Posted by drewfu (Post 2088902) I want a 13.77 ounce bar with my face stamped on it.
Geez, that sounds painful.

StackerKen | 01-10-2010 12:58 AM
Re: Home Smelter? even better thing to do with 90% http://s380.photobucket.com/albums/o...fcoinring9.jpg http://s380.photobucket.com/albums/o...fcoinring2.jpg http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...tom_coin_rings

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- - Home Smelter? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=434007)

angryhippy | 01-11-2010 01:49 AM
Re: Home Smelter? Those rings are sweet.

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