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- - PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=321303)

Copperhead | 11-11-2008 03:38 PM
PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. If a recession may dampen metal demand then what's the depression going to do?:bawling: Gold, Platinum Drop on Concern Recession May Damp Metal Demand By Pham-Duy Nguyen Nov. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Gold futures fell on speculation a global recession will damp demand for precious metals and other raw materials. Platinum and silver also declined. Equities in Asia, Europe and the U.S. fell today. More than $28 trillion in value has been erased from global equity markets this year as banks have posted more than $920 billion in credit losses and writedowns. The Reuters/Jefferies CRB Index of 19 raw materials is down by almost a third this year. ``We're back to focusing on the recession,'' said Leonard Kaplan, the president of Prospector Asset Management in Evanston, Illinois. ``You're seeing a bear market in everything. Gold traditionally does better than anything else in this recessionary environment, but it still goes down.'' Gold futures for December delivery fell $13.70, or 1.8 percent, to $732.80 an ounce on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange. The metal has dropped 29 percent from a record $1,033.90 in March. Platinum futures for January delivery fell $33.30, or 3.9 percent, to $826.60 an ounce on the Nymex. The metal, used in jewelry and pollution-control devices in cars, has tumbled 64 percent from a record $2,308.80 on March 4. Last week, General Motors Corp., the biggest U.S. automaker, reported a $4.2 billion third-quarter operating loss and warned it may run short of cash by the end of June. Ford Motor Co. reported a $2.98 billion loss in the quarter. `Slammed' ``Nobody's going to buy cars,'' Kaplan said. ``You'll see platinum trade $100 to $250 lower than gold. It happens in every recession. Platinum is industrial, and catalytic converters and jewelry are going to get slammed.'' Platinum, palladium and silver have wider industrial uses than gold. Gold has dropped 13 percent this year. Silver is down 34 percent, and platinum and palladium has slumped more than 40 percent. Gold may rebound to $800 in the next three months on investor demand for a haven from market turmoil, UBS AG analyst John Reade said. ``Interest in gold coins remains strong, with coin shortages apparent in many markets, while kilobars, one of the most popular investment categories, are trading at a high premium to the spot gold price due to long waiting lists at refineries,'' Reade said in a report. A one-ounce Krugerrand coin from South Africa cost almost $37 more than the per-ounce spot price of gold today. The U.S. Mint said this month it has resumed taking orders for American Buffalo 1-ounce gold-bullion coins after a surge in demand depleted supplies in its vaults. Silver futures for December delivery fell 41.5 cents, or 4.1 percent, to $9.805 an ounce today on the Comex. Palladium for December delivery fell $2.75, or 1.2 percent, to $219.25 an ounce on the Nymex. To contact the reporter on this story: Pham-Duy Nguyen in Seattle at pnguyen@bloomberg.net. Last Updated: November 11, 2008 14:21 EST http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...er=commodities

RaccoonRiverRadical | 11-11-2008 03:41 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
A one-ounce Krugerrand coin from South Africa cost almost $37 more than the per-ounce spot price of gold today.
More like $85.

toothpicker | 11-11-2008 03:41 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. ``We're back to focusing on the recession,'' said Leonard Kaplan, the president of Prospector Asset Management in Evanston, Illinois. ``You're seeing a bear market in everything. Gold traditionally does better than anything else in this recessionary environment, but it still goes down.'' Paper PM prices are irrelevant!

rodzm | 11-11-2008 03:46 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. They keep referring to gold's drop...hmmm try to buy anything near spot. As far as Im concerned that article is pure......CRAP

Copperhead | 11-11-2008 03:48 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by toothpicker (Post 1410662) Paper PM prices are irrelevant!
True, unless you are trying to sell $19.00 physical silver now.:yippee:

GoldBuyer123 | 11-11-2008 03:52 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by Copperhead (Post 1410671) True, unless you are trying to sell $19.00 physical silver now.:yippee:
Silver is going to be over $50 in 2 to 3 years. Don't expect to sell now and replace later at a lower cost. We are near bottom and will rattle around here for a spell. This is accumulation time, reward time is coming.

Exit89 | 11-11-2008 03:57 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by Copperhead (Post 1410671) True, unless you are trying to sell $19.00 physical silver now.:yippee:
Yup! I agree, but sell time was a short while ago. Back when "Last time to buy under $20", or "Backing up the truck, beep, beep, beep..." or "it will never go below $15". Those were the days. I remember some GIM members arning against such folly, but they were shouted down. You listened to the wrong experts. :biggrin:

Copperhead | 11-11-2008 03:58 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldBuyer123 (Post 1410675) Silver is going to be over $50 in 2 to 3 years. Don't expect to sell now and replace later at a lower cost. We are near bottom and will rattle around here for a spell. This is accumulation time, reward time is coming.
I know that, but with all the distress PM selling I see going on I thought maybe I could push a little more physical silver on the market.:wink: It's a dog eat dog world out there goldbuyer.

rodzm | 11-11-2008 03:58 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldBuyer123 (Post 1410675) Silver is going to be over $50 in 2 to 3 years. Don't expect to sell now and replace later at a lower cost. We are near bottom and will rattle around here for a spell. This is accumulation time, reward time is coming.
Im sorry but Ive heard that one too many times. You cant compare stocks to PM's but I heard many people say this is the bottom for stocks. I beg to differ, we still have a bit more to go. Same with PM's, this aint the bottom Im almost sure we will see "paper" price of $7.xx silver and low $600 gold. Platinum and palladium??? Theyre mainly used for cat converters and the auto industry is in shambles...Platinum on par with $600 gold and Palladium in the low 100's

Copperhead | 11-11-2008 04:07 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by rodzm (Post 1410685) Im sorry but Ive heard that one too many times. You cant compare stocks to PM's but I heard many people say this is the bottom for stocks. I beg to differ, we still have a bit more to go. Same with PM's, this aint the bottom Im almost sure we will see "paper" price of $7.xx silver and low $600 gold. Platinum and palladium??? Theyre mainly used for cat converters and the auto industry is in shambles...Platinum on par with $600 gold and Palladium in the low 100's
So what does that all convert to on the physical market?

GoldBuyer123 | 11-11-2008 04:14 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by rodzm (Post 1410685) Im sorry but Ive heard that one too many times. You cant compare stocks to PM's but I heard many people say this is the bottom for stocks. I beg to differ, we still have a bit more to go. Same with PM's, this aint the bottom Im almost sure we will see "paper" price of $7.xx silver and low $600 gold. Platinum and palladium??? Theyre mainly used for cat converters and the auto industry is in shambles...Platinum on par with $600 gold and Palladium in the low 100's
I've heard it also. But we have ferocious demand, even with steep loses in the Spot prices, so J6P is waking up. When the dollar reacts to the drunken spending of our goobermint, demand should really take off, and when we pull out of the recession and industry needs some, it's to the moon. 2 to 3 years, is optimistic, but not far fetched. IMO.

Twisted Avatar | 11-11-2008 04:18 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldBuyer123 (Post 1410675) Silver is going to be over $50 in 2 to 3 years. .
I put it at 45 bucks by 11/11/09. T

rodzm | 11-11-2008 04:25 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by Copperhead (Post 1410692) So what does that all convert to on the physical market?
Im just another J6P giving my opinion...I experienced steep losses in the past 7 months in the stock market and 2 months ago people kept saying we were at the bottom. Back on topic...As far as Physical market??? $12-13 silver, $750-800 gold, Platinum??? Touche and Palladium??? $250. Paper market means nothing...we will not see sub $10 physical silver anytime soon, if ever. Ill give you a good comparison...70's Star Wars toys cost a few bucks back then. It is still an item that is worth only a few dollars but try to find them for that much, IT WILL NOT happen.

Copperhead | 11-11-2008 04:49 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by rodzm (Post 1410728) Im just another J6P giving my opinion...I experienced steep losses in the past 7 months in the stock market and 2 months ago people kept saying we were at the bottom. Back on topic...As far as Physical market??? $12-13 silver, $750-800 gold, Platinum??? Touche and Palladium??? $250. Paper market means nothing...we will not see sub $10 physical silver anytime soon, if ever. Ill give you a good comparison...70's Star Wars toys cost a few bucks back then. It is still an item that is worth only a few dollars but try to find them for that much, IT WILL NOT happen.
I understand and agree with what you are saying, but to say that paper (spot) silver means nothing isn't 100% correct too in my opinion. If paper silver went back to $20 then physical isn't going to be selling for $13.00 still. Even with the small bar physical silver shortage, spot price still sets at least some standard as to how small bar physical silver is priced. We have a member who is selling rounds now for $13.00 each. If spot silver was $11.00 I bet he would be selling for at least $14.00. I'm really not trying to argue, but rather come to a general understanding here of what we are talking about to each other when someone says "paper market means nothing."

Copperhead | 11-11-2008 04:55 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1410717) I put it at 45 bucks by 11/11/09. T
I like your prediction better T.A. bancha

rodzm | 11-11-2008 05:08 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by Copperhead (Post 1410773) I understand and agree with what you are saying, but to say that paper (spot) silver means nothing isn't 100% correct too in my opinion. If paper silver went back to $20 then physical isn't going to be selling for $13.00 still. Even with the small bar physical silver shortage, spot price still sets at least some standard as to how small bar physical silver is priced. We have a member who is selling rounds now for $13.00 each. If spot silver was $11.00 I bet he would be selling for at least $14.00. I'm really not trying to argue, but rather come to a general understanding here of what we are talking about to each other when someone says "paper market means nothing."
I guess I didnt specify enough but you are right paper pricing sets some sort of standard and it does mean something but right now its hard to say with the crazy premiums we are seeing

Ardent Listener | 11-11-2008 06:22 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by pimples (Post 1410844) The biggest problem facing the metals are the hedge fund and money managers needing to liquidate for redemptions....for every $1 needed for someones redemption, $5 worth of assets need to be sold due to the leverage gone wild......hedge funds do not have the physical metal, they have paper contracts, and are the biggest reason that paper is falling while physical is scarce and more expensive. We probably have to unwind all of this mess before paper and physical prices are more closely aligned...and then we can look forward to all of the physical retail gold and silver to be sold by Joe6pak so he can feed his family, driving the metal back down.....you have to be the last one standing with gold and silver intact to find the true worth of the metals...many of us will not last if the depression is too long.
Good post. That explains why we see all the Buying Gold signs out there and the depression hasn't even hit bottom yet. The Buying Gold business is nothing more than a pawn-shop for the middle class. More Joe6Paks will part with their family gold and silver as times get harder. Yes, in the end it's not so much how much precious metals you currently have, but more so, how much you will have at the end of the depression. My advice, for what it is worth, is don't buy precious metals now with money you are going to need anytime soon. It's better to have less PMs then to be selling your PMs at a loss as you need the cash. Who needs goverment confiscation when they can starve your PMs from you?

steel_ag | 11-11-2008 06:27 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. cash flow moneyyyyyyyyy MOB

JoeSixPack | 11-11-2008 07:26 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardent Listener (Post 1410926) ... More Joe6Paks will part with their family gold and silver as times get harder...
Quote:
J6P is waking up
My ears are burning. :coolbeer: www.JoeSixPack.me

cugir321 | 11-16-2008 08:56 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. If they figure out how to get oil back up then we can talk about silver and gold. It's going up soon...Berkshire has a shoot load of oil stocks. Either they're the biggest fools or they're figuring soon. Oil up. Silver and gold up.

Silver Sammy | 11-20-2008 10:19 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. The COMEX spot price is pretty much irrelevant at this time. Example: Just this week I sold 4 oz of .999 silver ( one of those proof-like "$100 bill-style" bars ) for $96 on ebay. Thats $24 an ounce. 1/10 oz gold eagles are impossible to find under $90. ASEs are still pretty strong too.

Caligula | 11-20-2008 10:27 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sammy (Post 1427434) The COMEX spot price is pretty much irrelevant at this time. Example: Just this week I sold 4 oz of .999 silver ( one of those proof-like "$100 bill-style" bars ) for $96 on ebay. Thats $24 an ounce. 1/10 oz gold eagles are impossible to find under $90. ASEs are still pretty strong too.
What? What happened? I thought you said silver sucks?? :15_1_70v:

Caligula | 11-20-2008 10:35 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Ebay makes you feel good about metals....get it while its hot!! http://cgi.ebay.com/SILVER-ART-BARS-...1%7C240%3A1318

HistoryStudent | 11-20-2008 11:53 PM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1410717) I put it at 45 bucks by 11/11/09. T
Yep and I think (hope wish pray humbly) that the ratio will tighten up so that the silver to gold is LESS than 50 to 1 - TOO! :36_1_32v::signs14::36_1_32v::signs14::36_1_32v::s igns14::36_1_25:

Silver Sammy | 11-21-2008 07:15 AM
Re: PMs drop on concern recession may damp metal demand. Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula (Post 1427449) What? What happened? I thought you said silver sucks?? :15_1_70v:
Ive said...MANY things over the years...

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