Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)
- Gold - Silver - Coins - Numismatics (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
- - IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=264986)

Tallships | 05-13-2008 06:50 PM
IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! http://www.silverbearcafe.com/privat.../reversal.html And it is in our favor ! :applause_

Elvis | 05-13-2008 09:53 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Thanks for the post. Very interesting.

Twisted Avatar | 05-13-2008 10:01 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Good day to own gold ....... T

Tallships | 05-14-2008 05:35 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Now if only I could get people to pay me in eagles.

Twisted Avatar | 05-14-2008 05:39 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 1103505) Now if only I could get people to pay me in eagles.
That would be a sweet day indeed. T

paker | 05-14-2008 05:55 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! I talked to my boss about this today and he liked the idea, but the business I work for is using a contracted company to do our paychecks, so he has to find out how to work the Eagles into our pay. I'm hopeful..

Dude | 05-14-2008 06:14 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Quote:
Originally Posted by paker (Post 1103540) I talked to my boss about this today and he liked the idea, but the business I work for is using a contracted company to do our paychecks, so he has to find out how to work the Eagles into our pay. I'm hopeful..
That's cool. If he's serious, you should make sure you sit right at minimum wage, some in eagles, some in FRN, to keep it all "legal". Run the calculation for him. If you make less than $1000 a week are are paid weekly, you won't be able to pull off even one eagle. Use fractionals and silver $1 SAE's so you are at minimum wage. Wouldn't that skew the poverty rate. :D

Tallships | 05-14-2008 06:28 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! I think if you work as a private contractor, minimum wage doesn't apply.

Dude | 05-14-2008 07:30 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 1103570) I think if you work as a private contractor, minimum wage doesn't apply.
I suppose you could have a "boss" if you are a private contractor, but I assumed an employee situation, based on the terminology. I personally wouldn't try paying even a contractor below minimum wage with gold and silver in this fashion. Through our payroll system, we pay our contractors an hourly wage and we report those hours and wages to the state of Texas.

aclarky | 05-14-2008 07:34 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! I'm self employed and looking to incorporate but how do you balance your books if you have almost 20x the money coming in as going out in salary? Can you justify buying GAE's as a business expense? Can somebody connect the dots for me?

65gt350 | 05-14-2008 08:22 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Quote:
Originally Posted by aclarky (Post 1103648) I'm self employed and looking to incorporate but how do you balance your books if you have almost 20x the money coming in as going out in salary? Can you justify buying GAE's as a business expense? Can somebody connect the dots for me?
I am not sure on the GAE but how about CGM. I assume the company would book the expense like they book the Visa/MasterCard fee so it would look something like this: Company A buys CGM with a face value of $50CAD for $900USD from Coin Dealer. I would assume that the coin dealer should get a 1099 for this cost unless he is incorporated. Company A then books it as a $50 asset and books $850 as a currency exchange fee. Company A then uses it to pay a $50CAD bill for services. I am still trying to think of a way to do this from FRN to GAE. I really think you are better off using $20 Gold pieces since they were intended to be circulated. 65GT350

917601 | 05-14-2008 11:49 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Sounds workable, until it becomes wide spread and suddenly the mint stops minting all Silver and Gold Eagles.

George M | 05-15-2008 12:58 AM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Quote:
Originally Posted by aclarky (Post 1103648) I'm self employed and looking to incorporate but how do you balance your books if you have almost 20x the money coming in as going out in salary? Can you justify buying GAE's as a business expense? Can somebody connect the dots for me?
FWIW, I'll have a go. Using round numbers: corporation buys 10-$20 Saint Gaudens for 10,000$. Record 9,500$ as asset transfer from cash on hand to non-depreciable corporate assets and 500$ as commissions paid (for the seller's premium). Pay yourself $200 (10x$20 St. G's) for a month's work. The corporation records 200$ payroll expense and a 9,300$ corporate loss (9,500$-200$) as 'loss at disposition of assets'. Treat this 9,300$ loss as a non-tax deductible expense and also plan to absorb 15% corporate tax (1,395$). (perhaps there's a way to account for this as a tax deductible business expense, not sure). In this example the corporation incurs deductible payroll expense (200$), deductible commissions for coin premiums (500$), and deductible corporate tax (1,395$) totalling 2,095$ or 21%. You net 10-20$ St. G's. Remember to retain corporate funds later to cover the corproate tax burden at the end of your fiscal year. Beats the hell out of the 6 & 1/2 St. G's you could buy by netting 6,400$ via traditional payroll with its FICE/SSI/Hi-med, federal and state income tax withholdings. Not to mention employer FICA, state unemployment tax and payroll processing fees at the corporate level. I'm not an accountant but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Can't wait to see holes shot through this scheme. Thanks,

aclarky | 05-15-2008 12:13 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Thanks for the input. I will run it by my accountant eventually and see what he thinks.

mozkill | 05-15-2008 01:23 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! So, if I were a photographer doing someones portraits, would this be true? 1) cash price = $1150 , then you pay taxes on $1150 of income at the end of the year. If you paid 25% taxes then you end up with $862 in your hand after taxes. or 2) or they can save themselves money and pay in in a gold Krugerand coins, which costs them about $900 , then I pay taxes on only $50 ($12.50) and you still end up earning $880 (gold spot) - $12 in taxes = $868 .

teedub31 | 05-15-2008 01:38 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! I have been toying with this idea for a few months, but can't seem to shake the 28% tax rate due when you sell your "collectible". I realize that it would be hard to prove that I made a profit especially if I did all transactions privately. As intriguing as it seems I am not sure they make enough vaseline to take care of you when the IRS comes knocking.

phideaux | 05-15-2008 04:19 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! There was a long thread about all of this a couple of months back, with all of the nitty gritty details about how to set it up, and lots of legal references from Tom Cryer..Maybe it's just me :confused_ma: but I can't rind that thread with a search.

Tallships | 05-15-2008 07:29 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! I think you would have to use American gold and silver eagles only, because they are legal tender here. I am not sure if you could use Maple leafs or libertads and so on because they do not bear the impress of "our" sovereign, which is the loophole used, I believe. I might be wrong, but I think only us minted coins would qualify. As an aside, I not sure, but I think that there is no capital gains tax if you are a dealer (metals). If I am right, your private contracting business could have a precious metals dealer division to eliminate the capital gains ???

George M | 05-15-2008 10:07 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 1105099) I think you would have to use American gold and silver eagles only, because they are legal tender here. I am not sure if you could use Maple leafs or libertads and so on because they do not bear the impress of "our" sovereign, which is the loophole used, I believe. I might be wrong, but I think only us minted coins would qualify.
Exactly right ... this is played with USA legal tender. http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/...can_eagle_gold Regards,

mozkill | 05-16-2008 09:44 PM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Quote:
Exactly right ... this is played with USA legal tender. http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/...can_eagle_gold Regards,
so, do foreign coins technically have zero face value then? seems like they would have a face equal to the exchange rate of the face of the coin...

Tallships | 05-18-2008 02:51 AM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Not sure, but they would probably be valued at spot price by their bullion weight, or their collectible value, whichever is higher.

George M | 05-19-2008 04:04 AM
Re: IRS has answered GAE income tax question ! Quote:
Originally Posted by mozkill (Post 1106762) so, do foreign coins technically have zero face value then? seems like they would have a face equal to the exchange rate of the face of the coin...
Not zero face, but wandering beyond American legal tender would be riskier IMHO. I believe cracking the armor one step at a time is most prudent given how touchy this method is in the first place. My accountant believes applying this to foreign coinage imposes market value implications, even as he is just warming up to the idea of gold as money. He recently accepted a 1/2 ozt AGE payment from me. :wink:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:32 PM. |

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright = None use it and Link to GIM