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- - Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=451253)

Tater10 | 02-25-2010 04:44 PM
Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) I put in a cheap bid for some peace dollars and morgans on ebay, about $16.50 each, shipping included. I received this, looks like an 1882s made to look like an 1892s. Density tests range from 9.88 to 11.12, weight is 26.7g, diameter is 37.99mm, thickness is 2.88mm at the rim. On the very top reverse, I was the dope who scratched it. There was a wad of glue or something there, and used a tool to get it off. Dumb. http://www.taters.net/ob.jpg http://www.taters.net/re.jpg

Apocalypto | 02-25-2010 04:47 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) What help are you looking for?

Tater10 | 02-25-2010 04:52 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Does it look like the date was doctored? Common to do this? Thank you

Drumblebum | 02-25-2010 04:55 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) I'm no expert, but I don't think it takes an expert to see that the date has been more than obviously defaced. HTH.

hydro | 02-25-2010 05:10 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) As a newly hired 2010 census taker, thank you for bringing this to my attention. Everyone, please note the following: Morgan Dollar 1882S Mintage: 9,250,000 � 1 Morgan Dollar 1892S Mintage: 1,200,000 + 1

j-son | 02-25-2010 05:13 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Throw it in your stack and make a mental note to not expect eBay to always provide good metals

CoinNut | 02-25-2010 05:15 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) May have been messed with but the 8 clearly shows,on closer inspection....As long as seller did not try to sell as 92, no problem. You got it cheap. Looks like a high AU. Too bad about the damage.

Red_Leg | 02-25-2010 05:24 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Put the seller on your do not buy from list and throw the coin onto your bullion pile. Chalk it up to things happening.

Apocalypto | 02-25-2010 05:41 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) The date has definitely been doctored. When using eBay, take everything into account: - Seller's total number of transactions - Positive feedback rating, - Check their other current listings - Read as much feedback as you have time for - Enlarge all photos. Are the photos clear or out of focus? If any of those things sends up any red flags, move on. If the photos aren't clear, definitely move on. There is no reason for a seller in this day and age to not provide excellent, large photos when selling old coins. The seller may not have doctored the date on that coin, but it's definitely been doctored, quite possibly by a drunk guy. It's not good for much now except maybe meltage and the novelty of having a coin with a squished-up date. Is the deal too good to be true? Yes? Then it's too good to be true.

madfranks | 02-25-2010 05:49 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) According to the 2010 redbook, an 1882S morgan dollar in MS condition is worth about $40, while an 1892S morgan in MS condition is $37,500! Yep, your coin was doctored, someone was trying to pull a fast one. Other than the scratches, the coin looks to be MS, but the scratches make it bullion.

Stealinator | 02-25-2010 06:03 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) :bear_cry:Damm, First TomD, now these pics. I need a new digital camera.

gunDriller | 02-25-2010 06:18 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater10 (Post 2199014) Does it look like the date was doctored? Common to do this? Thank you
yes, the one 8 looks dramatically different from the other 3 numbers. less distinct, maybe not the same height - hard to tell without a calipers. also, there is what looks like scoring marks of some kind around the blurry 8. but i don't understand Morgan numismatics, i don't know why people would counterfeit a $16 coin - if they did.

HistoryStudent | 02-25-2010 06:20 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Call me I've got a dozen more - hope you speakie Chinese - okay? Cheapie,Cheapie, I'll even throw in the METAL file so you can MAKIE more yourselfie... Won Laid Over on U :111:

Tater10 | 02-25-2010 06:38 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Thank you everyone for the replies. I bought "random peace/morgan dollars" in this auction, and received mostly 1922/23 peace dollars and some worn common Morgans. This one stood out, I'm trying to convince myself it is a real Morgan, just doctored.

HistoryStudent | 02-25-2010 06:56 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater10 (Post 2199175) Thank you everyone for the replies. I bought "random peace/morgan dollars" in this auction, and received mostly 1922/23 peace dollars and some worn common Morgans. This one stood out, I'm trying to convince myself it is a real Morgan, just doctored.
It's real OKAY probably - why else would they doctor it? I mean if they made a PHONEY one everything would LOOK the same and they would not have to FILE down the date, right? Best wishes, sorry I was funnin' with you above... :Surrender: HS

St. Germain | 02-25-2010 07:15 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Chinese Morgans and Trade tend to be cast. Look for a grainy texture. ST

Dude | 02-25-2010 07:28 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Reminds me of a silly thing I did as a youngster in the 60's. Had a stamp in my collection, used postage with a catalog value of about $3 with a light cancellation. Saw an ungummed version for sale at $100. Decided to use a pencil eraser. It was a good $3 lesson. Don't be an IDIOT. That coin is genuine, but an IDIOT owned it before you.

RossL | 02-25-2010 08:09 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Quote:
Originally Posted by gunDriller (Post 2199148) but i don't understand Morgan numismatics, i don't know why people would counterfeit a $16 coin - if they did.
The perp wasn't trying to fake a $16 coin. He was trying to fake a $1000 coin. When he screwed it up and nobody fell for it, he dumped it for $16.

MISRy | 02-25-2010 08:18 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) \larrythecableguy\ Sheee-oot! I'd put it in one `o nim-nair AIR Tights, ats what I'd do. You got cher'sef a right Gen-u-wine (poorly done) Counr-fit rat-`ere. Yep. You hold in your very own hanns, sumpn' some-body thought wuz worth co-mitten a CAP`tal OFF`ense fer. At-airs a piece `o HIS-try. \/larrythecableguy\ :23_30_104:

Irons | 02-25-2010 08:56 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Sigh, you gotta watch all those unemployed tool and die folks out there. They now have nothing but time on thier hands and the skills to make anything out of metal perfectly. The next 10 the guy made are probably so good only an expert would spot them. Just sayin.....

St. Germain | 02-25-2010 09:53 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Nothing escapes the all seeing eye of the electron microscope in Long beach. Forgeries come back toe tagged and body bagged. Happens to the best of us.

eugene | 02-25-2010 10:19 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) if you get a coin with gum or tape or etc. on it soak it in mildly soapy water for a day or 2 and it should easily peel off

Apocalypto | 02-25-2010 11:10 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Quote:
Originally Posted by Irons (Post 2199348) The next 10 the guy made are probably so good only an expert would spot them. Just sayin.....
I highly doubt that. I'm sticking to my "drunk guy" theory. At any rate, when you're looking at coins in the range of what this coin was aimed to be, $1,000 level, you don't mess around with eBay anyway. You go through a reputable dealer.

Irons | 02-26-2010 06:09 AM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypto (Post 2199514) I highly doubt that. I'm sticking to my "drunk guy" theory. At any rate, when you're looking at coins in the range of what this coin was aimed to be, $1,000 level, you don't mess around with eBay anyway. You go through a reputable dealer.
Yeah I agree with that. My main point was there are a lot of very talented guys out there now with no job and years of experience working with tiny details in metals. The guys I worked with could repair a tiny detail in the cover of a plastic injection mold so well you coulden't see the fix on the textured plastic part, and they did that every day. If these folks decide to alter coins there are going to be real problems for the numi folks, because after a few practice pieces you will not be able to tell.:no_ma:

madfranks | 02-26-2010 08:46 AM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater10 (Post 2199175) Thank you everyone for the replies. I bought "random peace/morgan dollars" in this auction, and received mostly 1922/23 peace dollars and some worn common Morgans. This one stood out, I'm trying to convince myself it is a real Morgan, just doctored.
It is real, and it is doctored. See my above post, there's a difference of $30,000+ dollars between the two dates, so a con artist decided to try to shave that 8 off to make it a 9, and didn't do a good job. I think it's a neat coin and would enjoy finding something like that, it makes for a nice conversation coin.

hernancortes | 02-26-2010 09:08 AM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Raw key date from the classic era = proceed w/ extreme caution.

Apocalypto | 02-26-2010 12:09 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Quote:
Originally Posted by Irons (Post 2199830) Yeah I agree with that. My main point was there are a lot of very talented guys out there now with no job and years of experience working with tiny details in metals.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. And it's going to get even worse as metal prices increase and fiat drops like a lead balloon. Counterfeiting will become more and more common, and the risk in purchasing coins like high-end Morgans will increase right along with it. Already the Chinese are very adept at faking coins, and they do it en masse. hang in there, guys. protect yourselves. <object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ePxp2dsZ2-Y&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ePxp2dsZ2-Y&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

HistoryStudent | 02-26-2010 02:37 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Quote:
Originally Posted by madfranks (Post 2199952) It is real, and it is doctored. See my above post, there's a difference of $30,000+ dollars between the two dates, so a con artist decided to try to shave that 8 off to make it a 9, and didn't do a good job. I think it's a neat coin and would enjoy finding something like that, it makes for a nice conversation coin.
Slab it it will come back TAMPERED - Great conversation on HOW "I really got screwed coin too." Make the ones bugging you go away... :Surrender:

HistoryStudent | 02-26-2010 02:42 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Quote:
Originally Posted by Apocalypto (Post 2200237) I agree with you wholeheartedly. And it's going to get even worse as metal prices increase and fiat drops like a lead balloon. Counterfeiting will become more and more common, and the risk in purchasing coins like high-end Morgans will increase right along with it. Already the Chinese are very adept at faking coins, and they do it en masse. hang in there, guys. protect yourselves. <object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ePxp2dsZ2-Y&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ePxp2dsZ2-Y&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
I really LIKED that easy to see and REALLY understand the CARTWHEEL effect now. Boy, anything that gets valuable gets copied: OLD COLT Peacemakers Rare old badges NOW COINS "Nothing new under the sun!" - Solomon 3000 years ago. Again - thanks was even doing the dance to the music... :getdown::getdown::getdown::getdown:banchabanchaba ncha:565::565::111:

Tater10 | 02-26-2010 04:55 PM
Re: Ebay Morgan help (2 large pics, 170k ea) Seems with an estimated 650 million Morgan dollars minted, only 1.5 billion are left.

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