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- - 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=317303)

Scratchmo | 10-29-2008 11:56 AM
1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative 3 Attachment(s) I just wanted to show off my latest engraving project. I was commissioned by Monaco to engrave the dies for these. It's my first project after taking a 3 year hiatus. I have no idea what they're asking for them, but I know I can't afford one. :wink: Go here for all the info. http://www.zoomcoin.com/rare-coin-ne...commemorative/

eyeofliberty | 10-29-2008 12:06 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Very cool, thanks for posting that. I didn't know we had a die engraver at GIM!

Scratchmo | 10-29-2008 12:06 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Correction. The info page on the $50 Humberts are here http://www.zoomcoin.com/rare-coin-ne...commemorative/ Sorry.

SLV>GLD | 10-29-2008 12:17 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeofliberty (Post 1385290) Very cool, thanks for posting that. I didn't know we had a die engraver at GIM!
Right on! Perfect nickname, too. Welcome aboard.

eyeofliberty | 10-29-2008 12:20 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1385315) Right on! Perfect nickname, too.
I thought that, too!

beefsteak | 10-29-2008 12:50 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative :adore: Awesome Skill there, Mr. Landis. :36_1_25: Thank you so much for the wonderful photographs of your creation. And the URL as well. As I look at them, I'm curious as to the significance of the phrase in the ribbon on the obv above the eagle's head. Might you know about that? After all that hard work, and after the 360 pieces are struck, will the dies be "destroyed" or just retired, or do you know?

Scratchmo | 10-29-2008 01:05 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Beefsteak, the phrase on the banner above the eagle's head says.. 887 THOUs. It indicates the purity of gold at .887 fine, same as the original coin. The ribbon in the eagle's beak says LIBERTY. As far as the dies go, I don't know, but I would guess they would probably just retire them. I hope they don't destroy them, but that's just me.

TheNocturnalEgyptian | 10-29-2008 03:01 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Really stellar work, impressive, I know it's halfway between a re-creation and a re-issue, (since you created the dies yourself) but I really love the octagon shape and the reeding, nice attention to detail from the original coin.

Twisted Avatar | 10-29-2008 04:14 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative That is absolutely breathtaking Truly ........you are master of your craft. Weclome, welcome. T

Scratchmo | 10-29-2008 04:55 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Wow, thanks for all the compliments guys! You made my day.

MorganTheGoat | 10-29-2008 09:03 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative This is excellent work but I can't let some things go unmentioned. It seems like I have been playing the part of the sour puss around here lately and for that, I apologize, but as a person whos' entire living was made looking at scale, proportion, alignment, etc., I must point out (with all the respect words can imply to the artisan) that the typography outside the circle and on the rear has much room for improvement. I only mean this as constructive criticism. Very nice design, just those little details need work.

Scratchmo | 10-29-2008 09:27 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganTheGoat (Post 1386249) I must point out (with all the respect words can imply to the artisan) that the typography outside the circle and on the rear has much room for improvement. I only mean this as constructive criticism. Very nice design, just those little details need work.
I agree. There is always room for improvement, and had I hand cut the lettering it would have been much straighter, etc. It's sort of the nature of these early die sinking techniques (using letter punches) the lettering sometimes .. shall I say... wanders a bit? I view it as part of the 'charm' of early coins. I must admit, I wanted a second chance on the reverse side, but with deadlines, the cost of having a new die cut.. etc... Anyway, the original coin is not perfect either in that regard. But ya do the best ya can. Know what I mean?

KiloKel | 10-29-2008 09:34 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative still kick a$$, people do not know how much work and pride goes into these items.

AuNuggets | 10-29-2008 09:38 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Hey Ron, is that you ? That HOBO must be a self-portrait. LOL ........ Good to see you posting ! Getting chilly up here in these here hills at night, eh ?

MorganTheGoat | 10-29-2008 09:49 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratchmo (Post 1386317) I agree. There is always room for improvement, and had I hand cut the lettering it would have been much straighter, etc. It's sort of the nature of these early die sinking techniques (using letter punches) the lettering sometimes .. shall I say... wanders a bit? I view it as part of the 'charm' of early coins. I must admit, I wanted a second chance on the reverse side, but with deadlines, the cost of having a new die cut.. etc... Anyway, the original coin is not perfect either in that regard. But ya do the best ya can. Know what I mean?
Sure. I completely understand. Just the perfection of the circular radial design contrasted against the type stands out. So would you use or make a jig for that? The kerning seems spot on just the vertical alignment is off. Still, kudos on the whole thing. Nice work.

Scratchmo | 10-30-2008 01:45 AM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganTheGoat (Post 1386357) Sure. I completely understand. Just the perfection of the circular radial design contrasted against the type stands out. So would you use or make a jig for that? The kerning seems spot on just the vertical alignment is off. Still, kudos on the whole thing. Nice work.
Yeah, my late partner made the jig per my specs. The jig works great, but it's still not fool proof by any means. The letter punches, being hand cut, can vary slightly in centering, so it needs to be readjusted to accommodate the "A" and the "T" for example. (each set has it's own challenges) BTW, did you notice the "S" in "DOLLS." is upside down? Just like the original coin I used as a model. This particular die had a columbia style base, and my locking screw wedged into the bottom lip, locking it down. Every time I advanced a letter, I had to loosen it, thus giving the die a chance to twist just a little each time. A tech problem I had not encountered before. To add to this, the steel was so hard, I could not get a decent guide line scribed to begin with. Below is the die sinking jig with the beaded circle being sunk with a two stage punch. It's a double bead on the punch. One to sink the bead, and one to punch center for the next bead. I hope I haven't bored or confused you with all that tech stuff, but being hip to lettering layouts and coins, you may find this info useful or at least amusing. Anyway, thanks for your input Morgan. And yeah, that's me out here in the Ozarks. It's warm tonight. Who is it that asked?:15_1_70v:

Scratchmo | 10-30-2008 02:05 AM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative 1 Attachment(s) Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganTheGoat (Post 1386357) Sure. I completely understand. Just the perfection of the circular radial design contrasted against the type stands out. So would you use or make a jig for that? The kerning seems spot on just the vertical alignment is off. Still, kudos on the whole thing. Nice work.
Yeah, my late partner made the jig per my specs. The jig works great, but it's still not fool proof by any means. The letter punches, being hand cut, can vary slightly in centering, so it needs to be readjusted to accommodate the "A" and the "T" for example. (each set has it's own challenges) This particular die had a columbia style base, and my locking screw wedged into it, locking it down. Every time I advanced a letter, I had to loosen it. A tech problem I had not encountered before. To add to this, the steel was so hard, I could not get a decent guide line scribed to begin with. Below is the die sinking jig with the beaded circle being sunk. I hope I haven't bored or confused you with all that tech stuff, but being hip to lettering layouts and coins, you may find this info useful or at least amusing. Anyway, thanks for your input Morgan. And yeah, that's my self portrait but it's not that cold out tonight, Who is it that asked?:15_1_70v:

Scratchmo | 10-30-2008 02:08 AM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Oh, sorry for posting this twice-- my bad. anyway, the second picture shows the device a little more.

AG Capone | 10-30-2008 02:30 AM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative What is the hardness of the material used in your die? Is it a type of stainless, tool steel or something else? The coin looks great by the way:applause_ What is the weight of the final coin?

MorganTheGoat | 10-30-2008 02:51 AM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Totally fascinated, thanks for the jig pics.

Scratchmo | 10-30-2008 02:52 AM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Quote:
Originally Posted by AG Capone (Post 1386712) What is the hardness of the material used in your die? Is it a type of stainless, tool steel or something else? The coin looks great by the way:applause_ What is the weight of the final coin?
Good question. I weighed the original some time ago, and since then it's been the refiner's job. I have it in my notes somewhere, but can't find them off hand. I used a water hardening W-1 steel for the master dies, D2 for the reverse, and S7 for the obverse.

SLV>GLD | 10-30-2008 08:29 AM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative How many strikes is a die like this good for? How often do you have to make more than one of the same die or even after the fact? Thanks so much for taking the time to answer our questions and give us an insider's look at the basis for our hobby.

Scratchmo | 10-31-2008 12:52 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV>GLD (Post 1386908) How many strikes is a die like this good for? How often do you have to make more than one of the same die or even after the fact? Thanks so much for taking the time to answer our questions and give us an insider's look at the basis for our hobby.
That's a tough question. Each die has it's own life. Providing the steel is good, and the heat treating correct, a die can strike hundreds of thousands of coins. US mint dies last an average of 600,000 strikes. Early in my career, I was not heating my dies long enough to get the center hardened properly, and I found my dollar size dies caving in after only 60-70 strikes. The surface was hard, but the center still soft. I raised the furnace to 1550 degrees F. and left them in for an extra 30 minutes, and haven't had that problem since. (recipe for hardening W-1 steel) Then, if they aren't tempered correctly, they can be too brittle, and crack in half. NOT a good thing. I've lost several sets to die clash as well. If there is not a blank coin between the dies when the press is activated, you can destroy both of them in one single strike. Thanks for your questions. This post has got me to think I may start a new thread showing the whole process from start to finish with lots of photos. I have new project I'm starting now that I'd like to do it with, but I'll have to ask permission from my client. Could be a good start for a book I'm planning. There really is no good resource for this info. I've had to learn much of it through trial and error. Early coin makers viewed the process as a state secret, so little info is out there that comes directly from the mints or engravers of earlier times that goes into any depth.

j-son | 10-07-2009 07:53 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative anyone know how much gold is inside the 2001 W $5 Gold Capitol Visitor Center proof Commemorative Coin? i was offered one of these but didnt know how much gold it contained

Ag_man | 10-07-2009 08:03 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative scratchmo, I find your posts very interesting, thanks!! More, please! Question: With regard to tempering temperature, do you adjust the temperature with what you get on hardness meaurements after quench?

St. Germain | 10-08-2009 11:35 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_man (Post 1960430) scratchmo, I find your posts very interesting, thanks!! More, please!
X2! Thanks for taking the time to post - I find it very informative and interesting. It is very cool to get a peak behind the artisan's curtain and to learn about the process directly from the artist. ST

latemetal | 10-09-2009 06:12 AM
.24187 actual gold weight, Same as the last Half Eagles and .48375 AGW for the Ten dollar coins.:36_3_12: Quote:
Originally Posted by j-son (Post 1960412) anyone know how much gold is inside the 2001 W $5 Gold Capitol Visitor Center proof Commemorative Coin? i was offered one of these but didnt know how much gold it contained

AgKanga | 10-09-2009 08:40 AM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative .24187 AGW for the $5 dollar gold commems...and as mentioned above, .48375 for the $10.

horseshoe3 | 10-09-2009 10:27 AM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Quote:
I hope I haven't bored or confused you with all that tech stuff
To the contrary. It is a rare pleasure to get a peek at the processes a craftsman uses in his trade.

Junk Woody | 10-09-2009 11:25 AM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Great work Scratchmo,your avatar photo looks like Al Demiola

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- Gold - Silver - Coins - Numismatics (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=51)
- - 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=317303)

TheMadHatter | 03-25-2010 02:54 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative I have a coin very similar to this one - almost paper thin, I'll have to dig it up

cpthnsolo | 03-25-2010 03:25 PM
Re: 1852 Humbert $50 "Slug" commemorative Quote:
Originally Posted by horseshoe3 (Post 1963610) To the contrary. It is a rare pleasure to get a peek at the processes a craftsman uses in his trade.
AGREED!!!! :36_3_12:

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