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- - Did I get a fake? (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=297775)

Talah | 09-04-2008 03:50 AM
Did I get a fake? 2 Attachment(s) I bought a silver panda on eBay thinking I might get a fake and I might not...obviously hoping for the latter of the two. Today I got the coin and I'm just not sure. I don't have a scale so I don't want to open it without something to weigh it on. So I've been using TomD's posts on "how to identify a fake silver panda" Thanks TomD :D I'm hoping someone can help me out. Here we go: 1. The coin came in a package like it should be from the mint 2. The "airtite-like" coin holder does not have the 3 "place-holders" as it should, I have not opened the coin but just from looking it doesn't appear to have them. And the coin is free to move in the holder. 3. The detail on the pagoda on the back of the coin is more comparable to the real coin as opposed to the fake. 4. The "runner" going up the steps DOES have a design in it, and there are 3 posts on either side as opposed to the 4 it should have. My heart says it's the real thing, but my brain says...I got screwed. :confused_ma: The only good thing is that I have already contacted the seller and told him I suspect its a fake, to which he responded he did not know and that he would fully refund my money. Any help is much appreciated. P.S. Sorry for the quality of the pictures...first time trying to do something so precise.

goldminer | 09-04-2008 06:19 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? There may well be more than one operation making counterfeit Panda's that would have slight differences. "...there are 3 posts on either side as opposed to the 4 it should have..." Alone would make me quickly return it expecting that the seller pay the shipping and insurance costs.

Mujahideen | 09-04-2008 06:48 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? It's real.

TaxHaven | 09-04-2008 07:05 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? There can't be that many of this type of fake around...keep it as a comparison sample.

TomD | 09-04-2008 08:28 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? It's OK. I've got a sheet of 2005's that I just looked at. They quit using the "3-point" coin holders in 2004. Your packaging is correct and the detail on the pagoda is right. Below a picture of a real 2006 beside a fake 1995, look at the design of the very top of the pagoda. Another giveaway is the detail below the middle level roof level Yours looks like the real coin. Bottom shot is a fake 2001 that shows the detailing more clearly, notice the consistency with the fake 1995. Yours' is different. I'd say you are fine. If you must know with 100.0000% surety, take it by a jewelers and have them weigh it. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...5-and-2006.jpg http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x.../fake-2001.jpg

Talah | 09-04-2008 11:54 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? Thank's everyone :D

Twisted Avatar | 09-04-2008 12:00 PM
Re: Did I get a fake? It is sooooooooooooooooo hard. Unless I was a die hard panda fan ......... I would leave them be. T

Saul Mine | 09-04-2008 12:12 PM
Re: Did I get a fake? When it gets to where you have to ask somebody's opinion, you are buying stories. That's ok if you want stories, but don't pay for stories while you tell yourself you are buying silver.

TomD | 09-04-2008 12:20 PM
Re: Did I get a fake? Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1270218) It is sooooooooooooooooo hard. Unless I was a die hard panda fan ......... I would leave them be. T
It's not at all hard. Weigh the SOB. 31.1 grams it's good, 26-28 grams it's not. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...ht-f-panda.jpg http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...pandas/cut.jpg

jedemdasseine | 09-04-2008 12:24 PM
Re: Did I get a fake? It looks real to me, but take it to someone that doesn't have to rely on a photo over the internet and can actually weigh it. Good luck!

Talah | 09-04-2008 04:51 PM
Re: Did I get a fake? First and Last panda EVER! lesson learned the hard way.

Talah | 09-06-2008 05:22 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? update: Weighed in at 31.3g

aybesee123 | 09-06-2008 05:27 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? Quote:
Originally Posted by Talah (Post 1273834) update: Weighed in at 31.3g
good coin, bad scale

Talah | 09-06-2008 05:59 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? Quote:
Originally Posted by aybesee123 (Post 1273836) good coin, bad scale
Happy me :tongue_ma:

TomD | 09-06-2008 07:24 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? I've noticed a couple of 1/10's of upside variability on the coins that I've weighed but none less than 31.1. Good for you. :bear_w00t:

HaroldS | 09-06-2008 02:21 PM
Re: Did I get a fake? Glad I don't "need" Pandas. So many others out there that we don't (so far) have to worry about.

Silver Pirate | 09-21-2008 11:02 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? I recently bought a 2005 Panda as well, from Apmex. I bought it knowing about the fakes. It isn't an investment but I just wanted one because they look so cool. :D For others that have a 2005 or a Panda, when you look at the side with the temple and look at the rim of the coin, what do you see? My coin has a ton of detail and looks like other 05 pandas I have seen, but when I look at the rim/side of the coin I see a thin line of what looks like a gold color. Just wondering if others see this, maybe it is just the way the light reflects on it. Basically I am looking at the temple and if I try to look at the ridged side by turning it on an angle I see this thin strip. I don't have a way to weigh it. Just curious if others see this thin line or if you see a solid silver look all over. The side of the coin looks silver, it is just where the side meets the temple side...if that makes sense.

SilverSalmon | 09-21-2008 11:17 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 1269851) It's OK. I've got a sheet of 2005's that I just looked at. They quit using the "3-point" coin holders in 2004. Your packaging is correct and the detail on the pagoda is right. Below a picture of a real 2006 beside a fake 1995, look at the design of the very top of the pagoda. Another giveaway is the detail below the middle level roof level Yours looks like the real coin. Bottom shot is a fake 2001 that shows the detailing more clearly, notice the consistency with the fake 1995. Yours' is different. I'd say you are fine. If you must know with 100.0000% surety, take it by a jewelers and have them weigh it. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...5-and-2006.jpg http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x.../fake-2001.jpg
Thanks Tom, DAMN GOOD PICS! GOTTA Admit, even with your explanation and great pics, I still can't tell the difference lol! Guess I'll stay away! The are beautiful though!

j-son | 09-21-2008 11:23 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? he's just saying the top of the pagoda on the fakes looks like a few donut rolls. on the real one there is more of a design.

HistoryStudent | 09-21-2008 01:09 PM
Re: Did I get a fake? Buy the normal stuff. :applause_ Then you won't get screwed. :aetsch::aetsch::aetsch::aetsch: :haha::haha::haha::haha::haha: :aetsch::aetsch::aetsch::aetsch::aetsch:

Hellsbane | 09-21-2008 01:23 PM
Re: Did I get a fake? Quote:
Originally Posted by j-son (Post 1304001) he's just saying the top of the pagoda on the fakes looks like a few donut rolls. on the real one there is more of a design.
Yea. The real one you have a ball at the top followed by a doughnut roll followed by a bell shape followed by another thin doughnut roll. The most telling feature between the real and the fake is on the carpet(?) running down the center of the stairs. On the real one, at the bottom edge of that carpet(?) at each tier of the stairs there is a wavy line, " like 3 peaks ". On the knockoffs its just..... splotches.

TomD | 09-21-2008 01:29 PM
Re: Did I get a fake? A couple of closeups below, the top picture is the real Panda. See the pagoda tip? In the fake it looks like stacked donuts, Jason's analogy. The real is different. This is a big magnification but the "stacked donuts" look is visible by bare eye. There are other differences. I have or have had 12 fake Pandas, mostly purposefully collected. The samples have been acquired on 5 separate occasions from geographically diverse ares and over a 3-year time frame. Last year a couple of GIM members sent some fakes to me to photo. Except for die wear, the pagoda sides are all identical, suggesting a common origin. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...a-detail-g.jpg http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...a-detail-f.jpg

naccarato | 09-21-2008 01:49 PM
Re: Did I get a fake? Excellent work TomD, you know the details. :top:

TomD | 09-21-2008 01:51 PM
Re: Did I get a fake? Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellsbane (Post 1304215) Yea. The real one you have a ball at the top followed by a doughnut roll followed by a bell shape followed by another thin doughnut roll. The most telling feature between the real and the fake is on the carpet(?) running down the center of the stairs. On the real one, at the bottom edge of that carpet(?) at each tier of the stairs there is a wavy line, " like 3 peaks ". On the knockoffs its just..... splotches.
Another dead giveaway but it only works for 2001 and earlier years is the detail on the stair runners. On real Pandas, that detail appeared on the 2002 coins, all previous years had blank looking runners like in the real 2001 below. The fakes show the detail on the runners on all years. Compare the real 2001 below with the fake 2001 on yellow background on post 19 above. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...air-runner.jpg

AgAuGal | 09-21-2008 03:36 PM
Re: Did I get a fake? Where is the 999. On the front of the coin, I don't see the 999. I see the value but I think there should be a 999 very near the value or at least on the front of the coin somewhere. Unless you are 100% sure one of the things your should look for is a hallmark indicating purity. Not the only indicator but another level of confidence if it is there. My .02 Nevermind, now I see it, in the shadows.

Hellsbane | 09-22-2008 02:36 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 1304275) Another dead giveaway but it only works for 2001 and earlier years is the detail on the stair runners. On real Pandas, that detail appeared on the 2002 coins, all previous years had blank looking runners like in the real 2001 below. The fakes show the detail on the runners on all years. Compare the real 2001 below with the fake 2001 on yellow background on post 19 above. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...air-runner.jpg
Wow.... thats a pretty crappy looking coin. The rail post look very amateurish, in fact, the whole coin does. The counterfiets look like that. Must be when the counterfieters started copying those Pandas.

SilverSalmon | 09-22-2008 03:14 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? Quote:
Originally Posted by j-son (Post 1304001) he's just saying the top of the pagoda on the fakes looks like a few donut rolls. on the real one there is more of a design.
Thanks to your description I SEE IT NOW!!!!! THANKS! Seriously that helped alot! Doughnut rolls, LOL!!!!!!!

altnj9 | 09-22-2008 05:41 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? My coin guy in Chicago who has been doing this for over 40 years said he never carries or never will sell any coin from China. He says 80% are fake and most so good that even Class A dealers cannot tell them apart. He seems to thing a thing will come along in the next year or two like the lead thing or poison thing that will put any Chinese coin in a suspected fake category, and then for the most part they will be worthless. He just told me leave the Chinese stuff to the ebayers.

TomD | 09-22-2008 08:15 AM
Re: Did I get a fake? Quote:
Originally Posted by altnj9 (Post 1305659) My coin guy in Chicago who has been doing this for over 40 years said he never carries or never will sell any coin from China. He says 80% are fake and most so good that even Class A dealers cannot tell them apart. He seems to thing a thing will come along in the next year or two like the lead thing or poison thing that will put any Chinese coin in a suspected fake category, and then for the most part they will be worthless. He just told me leave the Chinese stuff to the ebayers.
There is a lack of morality, for the lack of a better word, in the Chinese culture. In the US, any European, South American or even middle-eastern countries, I can't imagine anyone introducing actual poison into baby and animal food as a profit maximization measure. Other cultures simply won't allow behavior like that. If the Chinese culture creates a climate in which there are individuals who will poison innocents for profit, counterfeiting coins would be like speeding 5 mph over the limit.

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