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Seleukus Nikator | 05-20-2008 11:26 AM
Julian II Apostas gold solidus damn I wish I had six yards layin around sos I could fetch this piece 149: Rome. Julian II, the Hellene, 360-363 AD. Gold So Item number: 320247626080 Bidder or seller of this item? Sign in for your status Watch this item in My eBay View larger picture http://www.goldbergcoins.net/liveauc...egs/115798.jpg http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/...id=e11002.m204 Starts at: US $2,000.00 Place Absentee Bid > Sign Up before this auction begins. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Estimate: US $4,000.00 - US $5,000.00 Absentee Bids: 1 bid Lot number: 149 (View all lots) Auction Date: May-26-08 10:00:00 PDT A buyer's premium will be added to your bid. Auction Currency: US $ (U.S. dollar) Currency Calculator Item location: Beverly Hills, CA Make no payments for up to 6 months Apply -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You can also: Bid with Bid Assistant Get SMS or IM alerts | Email to a friend Meet the seller Seller: i-lgoldbergcoinsandcollectibles( 2215) Feedback: 99.2 % Positive Member: since May-09-01 in United States See detailed feedback Ask seller a question Add to Favorite Sellers View seller's other items Buy safely 1. Check the seller's reputation Score: 2215 | 99.2% Positive See detailed feedback 2. Check how you're protected If paying with a credit card, see your card issuer's terms Description (revised) Prev LotNext Lot Hover thumbnail to view large image below. Click thumbnail to view full image in new window. Rome. Julian II, the Hellene, 360-363 AD. Gold Solidus (4.50 g), Sirmium mint, struck 361-363 AD. Diademed, draped, and cuirassed bust right of Julian, with full beard. Reverse: Soldier in full armor, advancing right with head turned back, holding trophy before his left shoulder, his right hand grasping the head of captive kneeling behind him; VIRTVS EXERCITVS ROMANORVM; in exergue, SIRM, flanked by branch and wreath. RIC 99a; C. 78; Fr-879. Finely centered and struck. Softly lustrous. NGC graded Uncirculated. One of my (P.R.) favorite biographies on the emperors is Julian, by Gore Vidal; its approach to this complex era is compelling. Others highly recommended are Hadrian by Marguerite Yourcenar (especially for young people) and all titles by Ferdinand Gregorovius, Robert Graves and those written by my friend, the late Michael Grant. Michael Grant has incorporated a wonderful realism in all his many works, and was a learned numismatist as well as historian. Estimated Value $4,000 - 5,000. Our item number 115798

Olmstein | 05-20-2008 12:02 PM
Re: Julian II Apostas gold solidus That is a beautiful coin, SN. Almost too new looking. Is this market known for fakes? And am I reading that right, 4.5 grams? Is that a typical size for that time? Many questions.

Seleukus Nikator | 05-20-2008 01:41 PM
Re: Julian II Apostas gold solidus these guys are a big auction house, they buy huge amounts of advertising. if they were to sell a fake it would seriously hurt their reputation, and so I would tend to believe their assertion of authenticity. 4.5 g is a typical weight for a solidus as far as I know. there are some like that in nice condition. its gold after all-- that's part of its charm right, that its non reactive and does not oxidize.

Olmstein | 05-20-2008 07:04 PM
Re: Julian II Apostas gold solidus So what would a solidus buy one back then? A meal? A weeks lodging? A goat? Two goats? Any idea what the gold/silver ratio was? The coin looks like it has rarely been touched. The texture of the hair and beard are perfect. Maybe it was slabbed and graded in 364 AD. :smokin:

Jack London | 05-20-2008 11:47 PM
Re: Julian II Apostas gold solidus Quote:
Originally Posted by Olmstein (Post 1111748) So what would a solidus buy one back then? A meal? A weeks lodging? A goat? Two goats? Any idea what the gold/silver ratio was? The coin looks like it has rarely been touched. The texture of the hair and beard are perfect. Maybe it was slabbed and graded in 364 AD. :smokin:
The Solidus (4.5gm) replaced the Aureus (originally 8+gm - but had been debased many times by the time of Constantine.) The Aureus = 25 Denari (silver) One Denari was a day's wage for a common laborer in ancient rome. So, a Solidus at roughly half the weight of the Aureus would have hired a laborer for 10 - 11 days. The Solidus holds the record for the longest period without a reduction in the amount of gold in the coin. (800 years.) If history repeats, we will go to solid, real money after the collapse of the dollar.

Seleukus Nikator | 05-22-2008 04:52 PM
Re: Julian II Apostas gold solidus thanks jack and while were at it lets mention the bezant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezant Bezant From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia � Ten things you may not know about images on Wikipedia �Jump to: navigation, search Bezant is a medieval name for a gold coin. Gold coins were not minted in early medieval Western Europe, silver and bronze being the currency of choice, but they did circulate there in small numbers, originating from the Mediterranean region. Islamic and Byzantine gold coins, in particular, were highly prized. These gold coins were commonly called bezants, taken from the word Byzantium, the Latinized form of the original Greek name (Βυζάντιον or "Byz�ntion") of the capital, Constantinople, where the gold coins typically came from, and were associated with, since the time of Constantine I. The first bezants were Byzantine solidi. Later, the term referred to gold dinars minted in the Islamic Caliphates that were themselves modelled on the solidus. Bezant was used by Venetians to refer to the Egyptian gold dinar and Marco Polo referred to the bezant in the account of his travels to East Asia when describing the currencies of the Yuan Empire.[1] His descriptions were based on the conversion of 1 bezant = 20 groats = 133⅓ tornesel.[2] Gold coinage was re-introduced to Europe in 1252 when the city of Florence began minting gold coins known as florins. Gold coins in 10th and 11th century England were valued at two shillings sterling. The gold:silver ratio was 1:9. Typically gold coins were used when payments had some special ritual significance, or to show a sign of respect. In heraldry, bezants are gold discs (roundels). Their name as a charge probably comes from the name of the coins. [edit] Notes ^ Henry Yule. The Travels of Marco Polo: The Complete Yule-Cordier Edition. Third edition (1903), revised and updated by Henri Cordier. Plain Label Books. p. 1226-27. (ISBN 1603036156) ^ Henry Yule. The Travels of Marco Polo: The Complete Yule-Cordier Edition. Third edition (1903), revised and updated by Henri Cordier. Plain Label Books. p. 1229-30. (Note) (ISBN 1603036156)

Seleukus Nikator | 05-22-2008 04:53 PM
Re: Julian II Apostas gold solidus little pic http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/buckler/bezant.gif

Olmstein | 05-28-2008 11:31 AM
Re: Julian II Apostas gold solidus Auction closed at $7750. That's a lot of FRNs. Nice coin though.

Lackluster | 05-28-2008 12:02 PM
Re: Julian II Apostas gold solidus I would have bid, but I think that coin has been cleaned.

SilverbackAg | 05-31-2008 08:17 AM
Re: Julian II Apostas gold solidus I was drueling over Goldberg's Greek Silver tetradrachms; however I limit myself to 3 or 4 VF-m "fine art" Greek examples a year and my yearly budget is close to gone (I want to own a 100 by the time I die of the very best quality--I don't necessarily buy the rarest but purchase the best high relief strikes I can get.

Jack London | 05-31-2008 08:25 PM
Re: Julian II Apostas gold solidus Quote:
Originally Posted by Seleukus Nikator (Post 1114653) thanks jack and while were at it lets mention the bezant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bezant Bezant From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia � Ten things you may not know about images on Wikipedia �Jump to: navigation, search Bezant is a medieval name for a gold coin. Gold coins were not minted in early medieval Western Europe, silver and bronze being the currency of choice, but they did circulate there in small numbers, originating from the Mediterranean region. Islamic and Byzantine gold coins, in particular, were highly prized. These gold coins were commonly called bezants, taken from the word Byzantium, the Latinized form of the original Greek name (Βυζάντιον or "Byz�ntion") of the capital, Constantinople, where the gold coins typically came from, and were associated with, since the time of Constantine I. The first bezants were Byzantine solidi. Later, the term referred to gold dinars minted in the Islamic Caliphates that were themselves modelled on the solidus. Bezant was used by Venetians to refer to the Egyptian gold dinar and Marco Polo referred to the bezant in the account of his travels to East Asia when describing the currencies of the Yuan Empire.[1] His descriptions were based on the conversion of 1 bezant = 20 groats = 133⅓ tornesel.[2] Gold coinage was re-introduced to Europe in 1252 when the city of Florence began minting gold coins known as florins. Gold coins in 10th and 11th century England were valued at two shillings sterling. The gold:silver ratio was 1:9. Typically gold coins were used when payments had some special ritual significance, or to show a sign of respect. In heraldry, bezants are gold discs (roundels). Their name as a charge probably comes from the name of the coins. [edit] Notes ^ Henry Yule. The Travels of Marco Polo: The Complete Yule-Cordier Edition. Third edition (1903), revised and updated by Henri Cordier. Plain Label Books. p. 1226-27. (ISBN 1603036156) ^ Henry Yule. The Travels of Marco Polo: The Complete Yule-Cordier Edition. Third edition (1903), revised and updated by Henri Cordier. Plain Label Books. p. 1229-30. (Note) (ISBN 1603036156)
Sorry to be so long to follow up. The Solidus is the name of the coin that people refer to as the Bezant. Constantine I moved the Roman Empire to Byzantium and later renamed it after himself. He gave the people a new gold coin, and called it the solidus to signify its strength. The quantity of gold in the solidus remained unchanged for about 800 years - a record, I'm told. The guy in the article forgot to mention the Venetian Ducat, which became the world standard after Constantinople finally fell. A Millennium of Byzantine Coins The fall of the West in 476 did not end the Roman Empire. The Eastern Empire lasted another millennium; known now as the Byzantine Empire, after an earlier Greek city on the site of Constantinople. The coinage reform of 498 is the demarcation between the Roman and Byzantine Empires. Few of the Empire's citizens knew of the old Greek city of Byzantium. They thought of themselves as Romans, though Latin was soon used only for rituals. Justinian's Court The people and the Court spoke demotic Greek, ancestor of modern Greek. They called themselves Romaioi, and their Empire, Romania. The Byzantine Empire fought continual wars with Persia and Persia's Arab conquerors, ultimately falling to a Crusader army in 1204.Though the Empire was restored in 1261, its economic vitality had been shattered, and Constantinople fell to the Turks in 1453. http://www.classicalcoins.com/byzantine-coins.html Also, here is the wiki-info on the ducat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducat I guess you are never really broke with a few ducats in your pocket.

Seleukus Nikator | 06-02-2008 02:29 PM
Re: Julian II Apostas gold solidus Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack London (Post 1126442) Sorry to be so long to follow up. The Solidus is the name of the coin that people refer to as the Bezant. Constantine I moved the Roman Empire to Byzantium and later renamed it after himself. He gave the people a new gold coin, and called it the solidus to signify its strength. The quantity of gold in the solidus remained unchanged for about 800 years - a record, I'm told. The guy in the article forgot to mention the Venetian Ducat, which became the world standard after Constantinople finally fell. A Millennium of Byzantine Coins The fall of the West in 476 did not end the Roman Empire. The Eastern Empire lasted another millennium; known now as the Byzantine Empire, after an earlier Greek city on the site of Constantinople. The coinage reform of 498 is the demarcation between the Roman and Byzantine Empires. Few of the Empire's citizens knew of the old Greek city of Byzantium. They thought of themselves as Romans, though Latin was soon used only for rituals. Justinian's Court The people and the Court spoke demotic Greek, ancestor of modern Greek. They called themselves Romaioi, and their Empire, Romania. The Byzantine Empire fought continual wars with Persia and Persia's Arab conquerors, ultimately falling to a Crusader army in 1204.Though the Empire was restored in 1261, its economic vitality had been shattered, and Constantinople fell to the Turks in 1453. http://www.classicalcoins.com/byzantine-coins.html Also, here is the wiki-info on the ducat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducat I guess you are never really broke with a few ducats in your pocket.
its an interesting story how a sound money is no guarantee of national existence. if you are conquered then you're gone the muslims had a big advantage over the byzantines in this: in byzantium they tolerated usury. hence, when the muslims would conquer, acc to hillaire belloc they immediately did 2 things which endeared them to locals: 1-- freed any slaves who embraced Islam (Christians tolerated slavery per the words of the Apostle) , and 2-- they cancelled interest on loans as usury. In the west, the usury problem was less due to the fact that the Bishop of Rome aka THE POPE forbade Christians from lending money at interest. Accordingly those interested in borrowing money and intent on doing so would usually have recourse to Jews who were not subject to this ban and unconcerned about Mosaic prohibitions against it where gentiles were concerned. Interestingly, it was not only the fracture of Western Christendom in the 30 years war, but also the fall of Constantinople that accelerated usury and the instruments of finance in the 15th and later centuries. IT was partly Byzantine moneylenders who fled to Italy and established the first lending houses. As Orthodox Christians they ignored Papal injunctions and felt themselves free to lend money at interest. Also part of that story is the development of the letter of credit but thats all I got time to share for now.

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