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- - American Eagles and their legal tender values....... (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=433576)

illuminate10 | 12-20-2009 03:39 AM
American Eagles and their legal tender values....... We all know there is a legal tender value inscribed(?) upon each gold/silver eagle. Well, say hypothetically we would eventually use those values in everyday transactions. You would get less than the 1/4 amount of $50 dollars if you were to use the 1/4 oz. GAE. The rest seem to mathematically work. 1/10 oz = $5 1/4 oz = $10 1/2 oz = $25 1 oz = $50 Was it really so hard to make the 1/4 oz $12.50? I know it's "symbolic" but I like to look at all the angles and it seems you could be getting less value for your metal with the 1/4 oz'ers. Or be giving away more metal than you need to if the face value was ever used. Now with the SAE, it's face value is $1 dollar. If I'm not mistaken, thee dollar was supposed to be 27(?) grams of silver. While 31 grams (roughly) is a troy oz. of silver. You also could be giving away more metal than you should if the face value was ever "invoked" using the SAE. Now with SAE and GAE values, they seem to be set at a ratio of 50/1 (silver/gold). It has barely went below that level since they started to mint the gold and silver eagles.............coincidence? I really don't know what I'm getting at, it's late and it just came to mind :111:.

specsaregood | 12-20-2009 03:55 AM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... That was part of the purpose behind it... I've posted this before, but might as well cut and paste it again as it is ontopic: Quote:
The bill authorizing the minting of gold coins in four sizes: 1 oz, 1/2 oz, 1/4 oz, and 1/10 oz. The 1 oz coin was legal tender for $50, the 1/2 oz was $25, the 1/4 oz was $10 and the 1/10 oz was $5. Do a little bit of arithmetic and you realize the 1/4 oz or $10 coin makes no sense at all. Those who made the final decision on the bill wanted it to be confusing. The 1 oz of silver made legal tender for $1 futher compounds the problem of defining the dollar when compared to a Federal Reserve note, an old silver dollar or a Double Eagle. Making the coins legal tender was ridiculous and nonsensical and was done to guarantee that people wouldn't consider paying a $50 debt with an ounce of gold, nor would they do it with silver dollars.
pg. 77-78, End The Fed

lumpOgold | 12-20-2009 04:10 AM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... If I ever see the day where I pay for a Big Mac with a $5 1/10 oz GAE I'll be moving to some other country. Probably someplace like Oman or Yemen. the "face values" are just for fun anyway, not that much to be read into it except that our legislators have little understanding of fractions. And Fractions are usually taught in the 5th grade? aren't they? What possible reason would they have to NOT keep them the same as the "eagles" of the past? $20 = 1 oz (double eagle), $10= 1/2 oz (eagle) .... blah, blah, blah...

illuminate10 | 12-20-2009 04:12 AM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... Quote:
Originally Posted by specsaregood (Post 2085543) That was part of the purpose behind it... I've posted this before, but might as well cut and paste it again as it is ontopic: pg. 77-78, End The Fed
Yea, I probably should've done a search first :banghead: why in the heck are they "legal tender" then? I'm talking to myself, I'll do a search.

jellydonut | 12-20-2009 07:38 AM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... Because you wouldn't want people associating value with something that isn't a 'dollar'. If you want the non-sinister version it's because in many countries (perhaps in the US as well?) only coins with denominations are tax free. Over here most bullion coins are traded as coins but ones like the Krugerrand, without a denomination, are treated like round bars and have VAT on them.

blackcat6 | 12-20-2009 09:21 AM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... I believe the original intent for these coins was they were supposed to be legal tender but without any dollar value stamped on them. They would become direct competitors to the federal reserve notes issued by the Treasury, backed by the USA, and legal tender for all debts and so forth. Of course this wasn't going to be allowed to stand. By the time the law was reconciled to be signed into law by Reagan, the bill had been amended to slap a $ value on each coin. It seems innocent enough however, in doing this, it automatically made the coins almost impossible to use as an alternative currency (which was the purpose). Furthermore the choice of $10 for 1/4 oz was done to further confuse the issue between face value and true worth. I would not be surprised if the congress person that did this was a minion of the FR and bankers. But putting a face value on the coins, it traps them in a legal limbo, where such as the case we have now, where the IRS insists the coins are only worth face value for tax payments, but intrinsic value for income purposes. Unless you are willing to deal with federal charges of tax fraud there isn't a good way to challenge it. This, IMO is why you see what you see on these coins. It's why almost every other governmental gold coin with legal tender status is done the same way. They don't want competition to their fiat cash.

AgKanga | 12-20-2009 10:33 AM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... If we ever start to use gold and silver for bartering, I believe it will be the "true" value of an ounce of gold or an ounce of silver that will be traded, not what is stamped on the coin, round or bar. This will allow for trade in forms other than just coins, and fractionals will come in very handy when making smaller purchases.

phideaux | 12-20-2009 10:36 AM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... The politicians and lobbyists who wrote the American Eagle laws must all have gone to Goobermint schools. They couldn't figure out how much $50 divided by 4 is, so they just rounded it off. "Close enough for Goobermint work.":banghead: "All other things being equal" (they rarely are), I would just avoid the 1/4 oz coin. Save up and buy one 1/2, or just buy 20 Silver Eagles.

Godot | 12-20-2009 10:45 AM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... Which is one reason, rational or not, why some folks like Krugs and pre-euro Phil's.

CAVU | 12-20-2009 04:14 PM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... It would have made more sense to make the 1/10 denominated with $10, 1/4 $25, 1/2 $50 and the 1 oz $100. Then again they are issued by the govt. which likes to make the irrational ..rational.

MISRy | 12-20-2009 05:08 PM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... When transferring cash across international borders one one must declare if it exceeds a predetermined amount. I think it's been raised to $10,000 recently. That total is determined by the face value of the money. Do the math.

cpthnsolo | 12-20-2009 09:20 PM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... Quote:
Originally Posted by MISRy (Post 2086167) When transferring cash across international borders one one must declare if it exceeds a predetermined amount. I think it's been raised to $10,000 recently. That total is determined by the face value of the money. Do the math.
Between this forum and another that I frequent I've read a number of post where people claim face value doesn't count in those situations. Ultimately it all depends on the agents working that day but I certainly wouldn't count on travelling with 199 one ounce gold eagles and expect to get through customs hassle free ;).

Jekyll7 | 12-21-2009 01:07 AM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVU (Post 2086115) It would have made more sense to make the 1/10 denominated with $10, 1/4 $25, 1/2 $50 and the 1 oz $100.
They did, but for platinum Eagles instead of gold.

Darth_Vader | 12-22-2009 09:11 AM
Re: American Eagles and their legal tender values....... They don't just put those symbols on there for no reason. Coins are talismans. So are bills. My guess is face value on pm's is the cost of manifesting the beast (empire). The lower the face value for an ounce of pm, the more the beast manifests. The US has the lowest face value/oz in history. For twenty dollars, you get an ounce of gold. how much do you want to bet the face value on the nwo currency will be really low? I bet around 10 units of currency for an gold ounce with an electrical circuit run through it to differentiate between gold and tungsten, kind of like a microchip. Purely speculation on my part.

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