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- - $20 Gold Piece (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=213095)

ME CO | 12-17-2007 08:23 AM
$20 Gold Piece I was at the coin shop the other day and even though I collect silver on the cheap- I like to look at gold. The dealer had one 1894 in AU condition, I didn't get to hold it and look for a MM or anything- boy what a beaut. When I asked what it would cost he looked at a paper and said $900. What is you alls opinion of that price with gold under $800. I would love to have it but that 900 frns may get ME lots of silver so I be getting it till I sell some more silver haha. TIA, Mark

The Great Ag | 12-17-2007 09:13 AM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Hey, ME CO: I am a numismatist and that is a common date if it is from the Philly mint. Considering gold prices, and the fact it is in AU condition you should be able to get a better price. I do not have my guides with me at work, but $850-875 would not be unreasonable. If you can get him down further, go for it. One trick I use is to walk in with cash. Most dealers are in need of cash for their purchases, especially at Christmas. Many people are dumping their metals for cash. Offer him 825 or 850 in FRNs and see what he says. If he says no, then fold up your cash, say thank you very politely, look around the shop for a few minutes to see if he will sell you the coin. If not walk out. Go to another dealer. The Great Ag

Master_Ho | 12-17-2007 03:01 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Ag (Post 878495) Hey, ME CO: I am a numismatist and that is a common date if it is from the Philly mint. Considering gold prices, and the fact it is in AU condition you should be able to get a better price. I do not have my guides with me at work, but $850-875 would not be unreasonable. If you can get him down further, go for it. One trick I use is to walk in with cash. Most dealers are in need of cash for their purchases, especially at Christmas. Many people are dumping their metals for cash. Offer him 825 or 850 in FRNs and see what he says. If he says no, then fold up your cash, say thank you very politely, look around the shop for a few minutes to see if he will sell you the coin. If not walk out. Go to another dealer. The Great Ag
What he said! I do that all the time..........

pinnacle | 12-17-2007 03:10 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Two very good informed answers.....and I will give you a third...which is slightly different.... this coin would be equal to .9675 gold content. With spot price at 796...the current spot price of the coin is $770 (right now anyway). I usually buy at 5% over spot on a $20 Liberty coin where the condition is uncertain. This would be at about $810. I only point this out in case you are a novice like me... There is a chance that the coin has been cleaned......if it is...you will get a little over spot if you sell it... but not much. Cleaning kills the premium. Of course...you could get bailed out in short order if gold only rises a little bit...so I would not want you to pass on what may look like a good deal...but I would start my offer at $800 - $810 if there is any chance the coin has been improperly cleaned. If the coin has not been improperly cleaned..it would be worth more even if it is an AU condition...but since I am a novice and have a hard time telling graded condition - I always error on the side of being low. My 2 cents.....I really like three coins - for the record: $20 Liberty, $20 Gaudens and $10 Liberty Head. If you can ascertain for certain the coin has not been cleaned....then I would pay more.

ME CO | 12-17-2007 11:42 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Thanks for the replies. This guy is oriental so bargaining is pretty much out. I bought a tupperware full of Walker half dollars (142) once cause he hadn't raised the price and they were at melt at $5.50. He said I gotta raise the price- I said not if you want to sell them, he said better be cash. I asked him if he would throw in enough of them square tubes to hold them all, 40cents apiece X 7 and he wouldn't throw them in on a $780 cash sale. I haven't been in this racket but since July sos don't have a rappor with any dealer, the other 2 in town are just out there in my opinion. Anyways that is a beautiful coin and I would surely love to be able to ogle it every day but I can use that $900 for hunting money. I will just have to stop in that shop more often to do ME oggling haha. Thanks again, Mark

Master_Ho | 12-17-2007 11:49 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Quote:
Originally Posted by ME CO (Post 879929) Thanks for the replies. This guy is oriental so bargaining is pretty much out.
Forgive me - I have to disagree. He might be difficult to deal with but - overall - orientals are great to bargain with. They do it all the time. I have spent more days than I could ever count in Chinatown in NY, Boston, SF and LA........and most of the people I deal with day to day are oriental. Everyone is different and possibly your guy is not a bargainer - but until you try you never know..........and what do you have to lose??

lhslancers | 12-18-2007 12:08 AM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Oriental is out. Asian is in. I got reamed for that.:wink:

ME CO | 12-18-2007 09:04 AM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Your right, never know till ya try, I still won't be getting it anytime soon- having too much fun with my silver game. I just go into the shops to look at gold since I sold most of my placer except for the Asian, I buy supplies and folders from him. Mark

65gt350 | 12-18-2007 10:34 AM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 879934) Forgive me - I have to disagree. He might be difficult to deal with but - overall - orientals are great to bargain with. They do it all the time. I have spent more days than I could ever count in Chinatown in NY, Boston, SF and LA........and most of the people I deal with day to day are oriental. Everyone is different and possibly your guy is not a bargainer - but until you try you never know..........and what do you have to lose??
I happen to agree with Master Ho and when I look at Mark's account of what happened I think the dealer is a good bargainer. He sells Walkers @11 x face for cash and didn't give away $2.10 worth of tubes. He drove a good bargain. I think Mark needs to work on his bargaining skills. I noticed a couple of areas that could be improved. a) On the $20 gold piece ask how much over spot instead of a price. This forces the dealer to say a number aloud that even he knows is over priced. I assume that at the time gold was ~$800 so this guy was $100 over. You can use this to drive the bargaining to a price that is closer to 30 -35 over spot. b) When the dealer said it better be cash. At least ask for a discount unless it is a good price. c) Did you ask for used tubes when the dealer said no to the new ones? I would only start bargaining when I am ready to pull the trigger. You don't want to be labeled a lookie-loo. Best of luck and I hope you are holding that $20 gold piece soon. 65GT350

thrifty_bob | 12-18-2007 10:50 AM
Re: $20 Gold Piece I agree with the $800-$810 and deal based on spot, not an off the wall price. I haven't had any luck with buying from local dealers at all.

andrey32 | 12-18-2007 11:06 AM
Re: $20 Gold Piece APMEX has these for around 840.

ME CO | 12-18-2007 06:47 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Quote:
Originally Posted by 65gt350 (Post 880400) I happen to agree with Master Ho and when I look at Mark's account of what happened I think the dealer is a good bargainer. He sells Walkers @11 x face for cash and didn't give away $2.10 worth of tubes. He drove a good bargain. I think Mark needs to work on his bargaining skills. I noticed a couple of areas that could be improved. a) On the $20 gold piece ask how much over spot instead of a price. This forces the dealer to say a number aloud that even he knows is over priced. I assume that at the time gold was ~$800 so this guy was $100 over. You can use this to drive the bargaining to a price that is closer to 30 -35 over spot. b) When the dealer said it better be cash. At least ask for a discount unless it is a good price. c) Did you ask for used tubes when the dealer said no to the new ones? I would only start bargaining when I am ready to pull the trigger. You don't want to be labeled a lookie-loo. Best of luck and I hope you are holding that $20 gold piece soon. 65GT350
Thanks for the tips GT. He actually has another one that someone messed up the edge on making it jewelry- he put it in a bezel and wants even more for it cause the bezel is 14K. I won't try bargaining with him over it till I won't miss the hunting money, hopefully my next silver sale won't be to "pay a big bill" and I can splurge. Or maybe Santa will put it in ME stocking- I been real good honest LOL. Happy Holidays all, Mark

Master_Ho | 12-18-2007 06:48 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Quote:
Originally Posted by 65gt350 (Post 880400) a) On the $20 gold piece ask how much over spot instead of a price. This forces the dealer to say a number aloud that even he knows is over priced. I assume that at the time gold was ~$800 so this guy was $100 over. You can use this to drive the bargaining to a price that is closer to 30 -35 over spot.
I love this - but I do a slightly different version - I ask how much it is (cause thats what anyone normally does).........then, when I get the figure I say "Oh, so you are charging X number of dollars over spot!" That gives them a chance to put their foot in their mouths first.....and when I say that they know I know spot (very few customers ever do) and that I probably am not a newbie or average person. I find it rattles them some so they are off their regular game........ From there I can go in a dozen different directions but one of the best is - "See, I buy most of mine from such-and-such for so much over spot, which is less!" or "Well, APMEX is charging......." and THAT works wonders!! :D

Master_Ho | 12-18-2007 07:02 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Quote:
Originally Posted by ME CO (Post 881097) Thanks for the tips GT. He actually has another one that someone messed up the edge on making it jewelry- he put it in a bezel and wants even more for it cause the bezel is 14K. I won't try bargaining with him over it till I won't miss the hunting money, hopefully my next silver sale won't be to "pay a big bill" and I can splurge. Or maybe Santa will put it in ME stocking- I been real good honest LOL. Happy Holidays all, Mark
Those "Asians" are so sneaky..........cover up the damage with a bezel and then charge more for it! Coins in jewelry are almost always damaged on the edge with destroys the value of the coin. I was at my coin dealers one day - someone brought in a St Gaudins (I forget the year) but expected $5000 for it..........it was lovely except it had been used for jewelry and the edge was destroyed.......most they'd give him was spot!

lhslancers | 12-18-2007 07:09 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 881099) I love this - but I do a slightly different version - I ask how much it is (cause thats what anyone normally does).........then, when I get the figure I say "Oh, so you are charging X number of dollars over spot!" That gives them a chance to put their foot in their mouths first.....and when I say that they know I know spot (very few customers ever do) and that I probably am not a newbie or average person. I find it rattles them some so they are off their regular game........ From there I can go in a dozen different directions but one of the best is - "See, I buy most of mine from such-and-such for so much over spot, which is less!" or "Well, APMEX is charging......." and THAT works wonders!! :D
I've been chased for speaking to the proprietor of the shop like that. Good riddance to that I say. God forbid I should ask the guy how much over spot he wants right?

Master_Ho | 12-18-2007 07:10 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Quote:
Originally Posted by lhslancers (Post 881137) I've been chased for speaking to the proprietor of the shop like that. Good riddance to that I say. God forbid I should ask the guy how much over spot he wants right?
They would DARE chase me...........never have, never will!! Take THAT to the bank!!

65gt350 | 12-18-2007 07:21 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 881099) I love this - but I do a slightly different version - I ask how much it is (cause thats what anyone normally does).........then, when I get the figure I say "Oh, so you are charging X number of dollars over spot!" That gives them a chance to put their foot in their mouths first.....and when I say that they know I know spot (very few customers ever do) and that I probably am not a newbie or average person. I find it rattles them some so they are off their regular game........ From there I can go in a dozen different directions but one of the best is - "See, I buy most of mine from such-and-such for so much over spot, which is less!" or "Well, APMEX is charging......." and THAT works wonders!! :D
You are right about trying to put them off their regular game. The reason I lead with the how much over spot is that if the coin is a numismatic piece the dealer still knows that I am interested in other pieces that are closer to spot. I have found that most dealers expect you to be knowledgeable about the coins you are asking about. Another thing I have learned is that it takes time to earn back your bargaining position once you make a bad trade. At the time the Ag/Au ratio was ~58 or so I traded $100 FV of 90% for a AGE. I think that trade labeled me a sucker in that guys shop as I have yet to get a good deal from him. I still go in and browse and pickup some silver but for my big purchases I go to other dealers. 65GT350

Master_Ho | 12-18-2007 08:08 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Quote:
Originally Posted by 65gt350 (Post 881172) You are right about trying to put them off their regular game. The reason I lead with the how much over spot is that if the coin is a numismatic piece the dealer still knows that I am interested in other pieces that are closer to spot. I have found that most dealers expect you to be knowledgeable about the coins you are asking about. Another thing I have learned is that it takes time to earn back your bargaining position once you make a bad trade. At the time the Ag/Au ratio was ~58 or so I traded $100 FV of 90% for a AGE. I think that trade labeled me a sucker in that guys shop as I have yet to get a good deal from him. I still go in and browse and pickup some silver but for my big purchases I go to other dealers. 65GT350
I hear ya! So far, I have been lucky, or blessed, that my only "sucker" deal has been on my dealer - not me! I bought a 2006-W Gold eagle graded MS70 by a third rate company for bullion price. I kept asking my dealer - who has also become a friend - are you sure? I asked at least four times. Then we took it and sent it to PCGS hoping - at best - for a MS67, 68.......it came back MS69 and when he looked up what it was worth he started saying "I can't believe I gave it to you for the price of bullion!" and I kept saying "I asked you four times and you said sure!" I paid $730 and, on paper, its worth $920. But - because I am a friend and because he is a nice guy - I told him to throw a couple of dollars on another purchase so he didn't feel ripped off and I was still ahead. I do a lot of buying from him and he gives me very fair deals - fairest of any place I know in the area........ And if he has something he thinks I might want, he actually calls to let me know......... And he will take an order from me over the phone when I call (I buy for a number of people - I really DO have people) cause he knows if I say I have the cash, I will be in with it! There is an incredible level of trust built over the years. In fact, he actually lost a coin of mine he was sending out once for grading....my wife asked if I thought he was trying to steal it - I said no. He replaced it with a coin of MUCH higher value! Three months later he found it in the safe (his brother had moved it) and even tho I had a higher graded coin now - I gave him back his and he gave me back mine. The honesty and trust is important!! THEN - he let me buy back the higher graded coin at a nice discounted price. Building a good relationship with a dealer is HUGELY important, when it comes to buying but especially when it comes time to sell.....and while I know a lot of people in our area - I make sure I stay on good terms with this one! As I have with Jennifer from Lone Star (we miss you) and people at APMEX (there is NO coin in the popcorn!!! :wink:)

fasTTcar | 12-18-2007 09:48 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Ho (Post 881256) Building a good relationship with a dealer is HUGELY important, when it comes to buying but especially when it comes time to sell.....and while I know a lot of people in our area - I make sure I stay on good terms with this one!
Words of wisdom. In my town we have a couple good dealers. One pays higher, one sells lower. I am on first name basis with both and have bought and sold with both. 2 weeks ago one of them was short on silver and i traded him out a nice mix of small bars and rounds for .999 gold at 5% OVER spot for the silver and got the gold at spot. Nice deal for me, nice deal for him, as he sold it all for 15%+ over spot. Everyone is happy. The reason I am chiming in here is that he offered me a deal on a 1908 $20. Just wondering what kind of premium I could get for it, as I might just pick it up to flip it. I just glanced at it quickly and the condition is decent, but not BU. TIA.

Anty Ep | 12-18-2007 10:09 PM
Re: $20 Gold Piece I got one here who is a steady, I go in and browse every couple weeks, poke through the miscellaneous boxes, maybe buy something more expensive if I have it budgeted. He's always busy and I dont waste his time and he doesnt waste mine. We had a few good laughs over VonNothaus. The guy takes in a lot of 90% and told me he sells bags of it to apmex, once, when I mentioned some good deals I bagged there. Another I just picked up, who opened, has some ethnic ties, and he gives me a nice price on 90% every time I come in with a bag full, figuring I will blow it on numismatic. Which I do. I just got four beautiful Swiss 5 franc pieces; one appears to be a "specimen" or proof, which is listed for four times the uncirculated price, which he knowingly sold it for, after we check the krause manual. I guess I would have to get it graded to know for sure. Whats good for foreign grading, anacs? I noticed that some foreign pieces I have seen are PCS, which I gather is owned by NGC.

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