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Wyldwil | 05-12-2007 02:03 PM
Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud 5/10/2007 10:00 AM By Marilyn Tennissen Elderly customers thought they were making a sound investment when they bought rare coins from a Beaumont company, but instead found themselves in what may have been a scam to defraud the elderly...... ....... Plaintiffs say the evidence and testimony will show: - Defendants are set up as high-pressure telemarketing operations; - Complaints have been filed against Defendants all over the country, including complaints to the Federal Trade Commission; - Defendants fabricate stories and lie about the origin and value of coins to increase their sales; - Defendants "pitch heat" to increase their revenues, guaranteeing customers a substantial increase and appreciation on their coin investments, knowing their representations are false and misleading; - Defendants obtain credit card numbers and charge customers' cards, without permission. . .a practice known as "banging" or "burning" a credit card; - Defendants convince consumers to take out loans, including home equity loans, to purchase "rare" coins; - Defendants offer a money back guarantee, but intentionally do not honor the guarantee; - Defendants mislead customers about the mark-up of each coin being sold, failing to disclose the real mark-up; - Defendants advise customers to take their money out of investments such as stocks, certificates of deposit and bonds, and to purchase "rare coins." Defendants tell customers their investment in coins will "outperform" their investments in other areas, without any specific underlying data to support such assertions; - Defendants "bait and switch," selling customers on more expensive coins or coins Defendants know they do not have in their possession, and then send customers less expensive coins or coins the customers did not order; and - Defendants' employees are taught to "isolate objections" and not take "NO" for an answer........ Link: http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/19...pany-for-fraud

mjk1971 | 05-12-2007 05:50 PM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud One a$$hole from Universal called me recently, after I had ordered one of the $10 NGC SAEs. Unbelievably pushy & deceitful. He came a hair's-breadth away from promising a guaranteed gain on the Platinum AE set he wanted to "unload" on me for well over PCGS book value. I asked him point blank, "are you assuring me that I will not lose money on this sale ever?" Of course, he changed his tune quickly. My wife feigned an urgency to get to an appointment to get me off the phone, and even then, he wouldn't let me go. I came close to just hanging up. I imagine older people, with more refined manners than the average American, not wanting to disappoint people and say "no," and, with many older people fearful of losing their Social Security or not having enough to live on in general, place hope before reason and say "yes" to such "deals."

Kahlil Gibran | 05-12-2007 06:01 PM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud It's a jungle out there. Nobody here should be surprised anymore. :bawling: They got sugar-water Coke machines in public elementary schools. Unborn grandchildren owe on the National Debt.

The Voice Of Reason | 05-12-2007 06:07 PM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud I don't want to see anyone taken, but why is it that when the elderly are taken it's consider a greater crime? You couldn't get a dime off of most older folks that I know. As sap is a sap at any age. An elderly sap is usually just one who never learns.

Jack London | 05-12-2007 07:46 PM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud Quote:
Originally Posted by The Voice Of Reason (Post 604555) I don't want to see anyone taken, but why is it that when the elderly are taken it's consider a greater crime? You couldn't get a dime off of most older folks that I know. As sap is a sap at any age. An elderly sap is usually just one who never learns.
It sounds cold, but you have a point. The elderly are like sacred cows. Cheat a 40 year old, and you're just a jerk, but cheat an 80 year old and you should be boiled in oil. Of course, I too am more angered when it is the old folks who get robbed, but shouldn't they know by now?

Kahlil Gibran | 05-12-2007 07:51 PM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack London (Post 604606) It sounds cold, but you have a point. The elderly are like sacred cows. Cheat a 40 year old, and you're just a jerk, but cheat an 80 year old and you should be boiled in oil. Of course, I too am more angered when it is the old folks who get robbed, but shouldn't they know by now?
You think those geezers don't know that when they cash their final Social Security check their ponzi scheme will soon collapse right after they buy their last Medicare diaper? :scorpio: paid for by their unborn grandchildren.

gopher29 | 05-12-2007 08:06 PM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud Quote:
Originally Posted by The Voice Of Reason (Post 604555) I don't want to see anyone taken, but why is it that when the elderly are taken it's consider a greater crime? You couldn't get a dime off of most older folks that I know. As sap is a sap at any age. An elderly sap is usually just one who never learns.
It's because the elderly, like children, are among the most vulnerable members of our society. Thus we, the younger and stronger members, must rise up to protect the weaker. Call me a socialist but I hate when the strong prey on the weak. We're supposed to be civilized; this isn't Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom.

The Voice Of Reason | 05-12-2007 08:16 PM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud Quote:
Originally Posted by gopher29 (Post 604619) It's because the elderly, like children, are among the most vulnerable members of our society. Thus we, the younger and stronger members, must rise up to protect the weaker. Call me a socialist but I hate when the strong prey on the weak. We're supposed to be civilized; this isn't Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom.
Right, when you hit 62 you are a child again. Just try and telling that to the seniors I know.

mayhem | 05-12-2007 08:24 PM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud Quote:
Originally Posted by gopher29 (Post 604619) It's because the elderly, like children, are among the most vulnerable members of our society. Thus we, the younger and stronger members, must rise up to protect the weaker. Call me a socialist but I hate when the strong prey on the weak. We're supposed to be civilized; this isn't Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom.
Well I'm one of them old folks, but ya don't need to waste your time protecting me. I just returned from a bowling pin shoot. 6.7 seconds, draw, five pins off the table and holstered with two rounds to spare. :bull-smile: m

Wyldwil | 05-13-2007 01:16 AM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud [QUOTE=mjk1971;604543] I came close to just hanging up.[QUOTE] Why not? Kinda ends it quick, no? I have absolutely no problem with hanging up on pushy telemarketers. One even called back one time... "Hello Mr. Wyldwil. We seem to have been disconnected. I was tell...." "No. Actually,I hung up on you. Like this...<click>"

Goldhedge | 05-13-2007 02:03 AM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud My mother-in-law is 83. We're on the Alzheimer's journey. 6 years ago she was doing better. When the wife went to NDakota to move her to COS she spent the better part of 2 weeks cleaning out the house after 50 years of living. The odd thing was that you couldn't walk through the house unless you followed a pathway. Bedroom doors wouldn't 'open' all the way either. Why? Because of all the junk she collected from phone solicitors selling her stuff. Once they got your number they keep calling back. If you would have called her after she got here, she would have said, "Sure, I'll take one." and write you a check. Her problem solving abilities are declining. If you haven't experienced it, you have no idea.... Imagine a phone call from her at 2 AM. "Hi, I'm dressed and ready for brunch!" Or how about a call at 5:30 AM asking "Are you asleep?" Or how about the call at 7:30 AM that says how do I get to brunch? 'It's easy mom, you just walk out of your cottage to the bench, then walk toward the double doors.' (She's walked it every day for 5 years.) Five minutes later she calls back, same conversation. Same answer. Five minutes later she calls back, same conversation. Same answer. This goes on some mornings for a good 6 or 7 calls or more! Now, imagine you have a regular job... Like I said, you have no idea.... Now imagine you are a telemarketer...We'd all like to think we have our wits about us. The funny thing about this journey is this: If you ask mom if she has a problem or a 'disease' she'll tell you flat out that she doesn't. She's as healthy as a horse. She'll even pull a joke on you and you'd swear she was normal, but after sitting with her for a spell, you soon realize that there is a loop tape playing in her head. Maybe that's why it's not looked upon favorably? Just an idea....

WAoG | 05-13-2007 02:51 AM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Ragnarsson (Post 604777) Why do I hate to see the elderly targeted? Plenty of reasons. I'm not saying they're the only ones to fall victim to these scams, but I believe they are more vulnerable than most. While some people are able to stay both physically and mentally sharp as they get older, that's not the norm. The aging process does take it's toll just through normal "wear and tear." Now throw in Alzheimers, dementia, maybe the results of a previous stroke - are these people equipped to deal with these scumbags? Hell, as a couple of us have said, they are relentless and are a match even for people with their full faculties. But what's most heinous about bilking the elderly is the fact that many of them are cheated out of their savings. It's bad enough Greenspan screwed them by driving down the yields on their income-producing investments (assuming they had any). But look at it this way - twenty-something J6P gets screwed out of a few thousand dollars by one of these hucksters. Sure it hurts, but it's not "game over." If he had to he could maybe work some overtime, get a second job, or even just wait for his next paycheck. Some old guy on a pension doesn't have those options. Once that money's gone, there's no replacing it unless Ed McMahon comes knocking on his front door. Which he won't. Truth is, I despise anyone who willfully tries to separate someone else from their money through lies and deception. But going after the most desperate and vulnerable among us is unforgiveable.
Great post. Hang them up by their balls by driving nails through their sack. If they live they will tell others not to do as they have done!!

AlwaysWrite | 05-13-2007 03:45 AM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud For what it's worth, Universal Coin & Bullion did not hassle me one iota when I (and my fiancee) ordered the $10 slabbed silver eagles. They didn't try to sell us anything else. The coins showed up as promised, very quickly (in about a week), and they look great. On the other hand, I tried an intro deal with the American Historical Society for a silver eagle and that guy was RELENTLESS. Kept trying to sign me up for 75 different recurring charge programs ("I'm gonna go ahead and send you out this coin, just return it if you don't like it"), including not just coins, but credit card insurance and other crap ... THEN said he was going to give my billing info. to some OTHER company that would call me and try to sell me stuff... and THEN you get a card in the mail you have to fill out and mail back in within like 2 days, and THEN wait like 6-8 weeks for something that may or may not ever arrive (it hasn't yet). Argh. Worst "free" item ever.

goldminer | 05-13-2007 07:13 PM
Re: Elderly customers sue coin company for fraud The rule of thumb at our house is when we say "hello" and hear nothing immediately, we hang up...first time every time.

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