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LWK | 02-07-2010 08:41 AM
Something that genuinely irritates me One thing I see a lot when I go to my sources to buy PM's is families coming in processing huge orders of collections. We've all seen this nonsense, and we all can predict the outcome a mile away. We live in a era now where everyone just wants instant gratification, there just seems to be a total lack of respect for legacy and family history. Now, I know I may raise eyebrows and annoy some by saying this, but it just seems worse to me. By this I refer to the people who come in with what seems like crates full of left over stuff, most likely stuff from a deceased parent or grandparent, and sell it off immediately. Today, I saw some family in the shop with a huge collection of goods. (This is one example of other incidents I've seen) This collection seemed really organized, and some thought obviously went into this collection. So the greedy shop dealers are looking up info, and we all know where that goes.. I knew they'd try and screw these people over, but I honestly feel at this point that if you are stupid enough to go to a random bullion/numis dealer and sell your coins, you deserve to be screwed over. The worst thing is the disrespect for someones parent's legacy. When your parents die, and they leave you a fantastic collection, you should treasure that and never sell it. I don't even care if its some junk to you, respect it. You don't get another family really, and watching these families of disrespectful and uneducated types selling off those collections just bugs me, it hurts to see it. I see them like fish against top poker players, its literally hopelessly out of your favor, because you aren't educating yourself enough by thinking a little ahead of the situation of what you 'don't know', you're just wasting your time. Chances are, there is time to be patient enough to make selling this stuff the last resort.. At least then you can rest comfortably that if you HAVE to put a price on your history, its not pennies on the dollar. I actually like one of my dealers, and this is rare because I'm not that type, but I understand. The guy is a older guy, looks to be 60's or so, but he started collecting as a kid, and he actually owns the store. He said a line I really liked and that was to keep 'putting it away', meaning, respect the value of things. Money value and sentimental value are both important. This same guy has a collection of bizarre awesome stuff, and a good example of a collectible he has is a national currency bank note from a bank that existed in the 20's. That note isn't for sale, its just to show off, because hes so proud he acquired the thing. I apologize to you guys if I'm ranting, but maybe you could share some similar stories of incidents like these, because I'm certain we've all seen some of them. :4_8_4v:

Tallships | 02-07-2010 08:55 AM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me I understand what you are saying but there are alot of reasons why people do this. I bet in many cases, their lawyers tell them to do it to avoid the bullion tax, as I believe that cost basis is zero if you sell inherited bullion within a certain time frame. Also, if you have ever executed a will or estate, you know how the kids/heirs will fight over certain things and the easiest thing to do is to liquidate everything and give them equal sums of cash. Sometimes keeping the family together is easier than having memorial tokens.

LWK | 02-07-2010 09:29 AM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 2166928) I understand what you are saying but there are alot of reasons why people do this. I bet in many cases, their lawyers tell them to do it to avoid the bullion tax, as I believe that cost basis is zero if you sell inherited bullion within a certain time frame. Also, if you have ever executed a will or estate, you know how the kids/heirs will fight over certain things and the easiest thing to do is to liquidate everything and give them equal sums of cash. Sometimes keeping the family together is easier than having memorial tokens.
I agree actually. But lets see it in the case that the people are doing it to just make one grand purchase on something that won't matter long term. It sure isn't going to be property, because the payout most like stinks on these collections. You tend to see types who just blow through massive amounts of money really fast. Its not usually actual bullion though. In the examples I see, it tends to be a bunch of numismatics. Some bullion mixed in. I am not familiar with this bullion inheritance tax, and the fact it exists at all is ridiculous.

Tallships | 02-07-2010 10:00 AM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me When my grandfather died, he had all sorts of good stuff -- bullion and numismatics including saints and several 1909 svdb pennies. He knew he was dying early enough to liquidate most of his things before it happened, but the coins and the farm went to my grandmother who sold them incrementally to pay for her living expenses. All I got was his silver pocket watch, but that is just fine with me. I do not know how much is left of what and do not care if the rest of the family fritters it away on stupid stuff, which I am sure will happen anyway. It is not my stuff, and I expect nothing at all. I am just lucky to still have one living grandparent at my age.

GoldWampum | 02-07-2010 10:19 AM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me The only PM's I own that are not for sale is the small amount my Dad left me. Those are off the table. I can sympathize with your feelings, but understand the realities of why estates do this. And yes, I agree that much of that cohesion and respect is lost to prior days.

LWK | 02-07-2010 10:28 AM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me This sort of sums up my view in a way. Its not about the value of the item, but more so the respect for the struggles of those before you to acquire it. I think I feel this way largely because my family clawed its way out of nothingness and when I inherit anything, I make sure to never sell it and keep it as part of my history. I really do feel that there is a total lack of values or respect now for the elderly or deceased. I just see all those smiling faces selling this stuff and you gotta wonder about the possibility of that collection being someones senile fathers. Its not just about the materialistic aspect, but the fact of not respecting the work someone may have put in to build that collection, and then here someone is, selling it off for peanuts. It means a lot more if you deeply cared about your relatives before they pass.

GoldenE | 02-07-2010 11:23 AM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me LWK, I agree with you. My maternal grandfather died before I was born. He emigrated from austria-hungary when he was 9 years old just before 1910. Even though we never met, I still feel a strong connection with him. Part of if it is from stories my mom has told me and part of it is from seeing his hobies in person. I've seen sketches and paintings he made as part of his hobby. I've seen the old european paper money that he had when he came to america that's still in tact. I've seen his stamp collection and his coin collection (bullion and non-bullion). It's these types of things that make me feel connected. To be able to say, I'm holding a coin that my gradfather spent time finding and kept and held himself. When he traveled he had a leather "wallet" (for lack of a better word) that held his passport and ticket and some other papers that has his name sewn on it. When my mom traveled to Europe she used it to hold her passport. When my brother traveled to Italy he used it. When I traveled to isreal, asia, and australia I used it for my passport and plane tickets and hotel papers. The point is, it's a great connection to the past. And my mom and aunt would never sell any of his collection. My brother and I won't sell it. And I'll be damn sure any kids I have won't sell it. And I know my brother would make sure of the same.

SLV>GLD | 02-07-2010 11:40 AM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me One of my local guys is stand up dude. He will not rip anyone off. He always fairly evaluates and offers even in the most obvious situation where taking someone would be what they deserve even. If he cannot accurately appraise something he knows who can. Other than that anecdote, I have no sympathy for people who sell off their family heirlooms with no regard for the value (appraisal or sentimental).

nub | 02-07-2010 01:31 PM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me Some people who have struggled with money most of their lives and just see the cash value in things, Imagine being poor, then getting things from your deceased family members, If you have been struggling trying to pay the bills of course you will sell whatever items you need to. I would not sell any of my sentimental items, unless it was to feed my family or if there was no other way. Sometimes there is just no connection with the past for some people.

DC7 | 02-07-2010 02:49 PM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me I think it's sad...... I completely agree about the importance of respecting what your family has built before you..... But I can't lay the blame on just the younger generation selling it all off. If you want to pass on something of value to your kids, then it's on you to make sure they understand it's importance. If we don't educate our kid's as to the value of things, who will? How upset can we be for them being ignorant if we never took the time to explain? I want my kid to understand the value of things that might one day be passed on, so I'm starting the education now.

Nugginator | 02-07-2010 03:03 PM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me I can see where you could be upset if it was based on personal experience, as if your brother or sister did something like this, but then again I'm not so sure. I say this because you have no right to decide what anyone else should do with their "heirlooms". Its none of your business, yea, you may not agree with it and you think you know what is best for them, but your wrong. Irritation over this kind of thing to me is a waste of energy.:signs14: Seen it happen in my family too.

RJB | 02-07-2010 03:04 PM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me It may be less of the kid's fault than the parents. Very few people have any idea of family wealth now. The kids probably think, "What value is this bullion? I can't watch a movie on it." The lesson: Let your children hold your PMs and understand it's inherent value. Teach your kids.

HistoryStudent | 02-07-2010 04:07 PM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me Much wisdom is imparted above from each and every one of you. People only equate things in DOLLAR worth. St. Thomas Aquinas started this with the doctriine "that everything has a fair worth." So many people have become deceived by thinking that everything is based on a dollar. They just do not have the intelligence to see they are deceived because they are too busy listening to foolishness to think for themselves. Watch them walk down the street what IS in their ears? Watch them as you and hopefully your loved one PASS by their front windows on your walk - what are they watching in LIVING HD color? Watch them watch a serious debate for themselves. Then watch how they HAVE to continue to watch to have some two-bit expert tell them what they heard, right? Watch them get lead around like a bunch of TV :sheep: when then can see for themselves that GOLD went up over 300% this last entire decade - while their investments lost up to 50% - while the dollar is only worth about half in buying power, right? Watch them call you crazy if you bring up that they took gold off the front page of the NEWSPAPERS in 1975, right? Again they are too busy to think for themselves. Germany proved this in 1932 to 1945. “The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism – ownership of government by an individual, by a group.” –Franklin Delano Roosevelt Guess what? HS

LWK | 02-07-2010 08:55 PM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me Quote:
Originally Posted by DC7 (Post 2167409) I think it's sad...... I completely agree about the importance of respecting what your family has built before you..... But I can't lay the blame on just the younger generation selling it all off. If you want to pass on something of value to your kids, then it's on you to make sure they understand it's importance. If we don't educate our kid's as to the value of things, who will? How upset can we be for them being ignorant if we never took the time to explain? I want my kid to understand the value of things that might one day be passed on, so I'm starting the education now.
This is my stance actually. I have the duty of educating my future kids to be aware of things, and if I teach them, this value passes onto them. Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugginator (Post 2167430) I can see where you could be upset if it was based on personal experience, as if your brother or sister did something like this, but then again I'm not so sure. I say this because you have no right to decide what anyone else should do with their "heirlooms". Its none of your business, yea, you may not agree with it and you think you know what is best for them, but your wrong. Irritation over this kind of thing to me is a waste of energy.:signs14: Seen it happen in my family too.
I'm not deciding anything or saying that its supposed to be my way. I'm just merely stating what I see. I've seen well dressed healthy families do this. If the situation is so bad, its probably bad a lot of the time due to massive debt and already apparent stupidity on their parts. I'm not knocking people who have no choice. That is a entirely different situation. Its none of my business. Sure it isn't, but I see this activity frequently on my trips to these places, and wanted to see if anyone had similar stories that involved my assumption about it.

Saul Mine | 02-07-2010 09:37 PM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me You have to get used to the fact that some people are not as smart as we are. I know it hurts, but you just have to get used to it.

tekhen | 02-08-2010 10:18 AM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me I understand the legacy aspect... but it has to be stated by the person who has died. which so often and unfortunately is not... I leave to you... please keep in the family. This is all it takes. At the present, my child does not have the same enthusiasm I have for coins. hopefully the history of tangible assets (PMs) that I am teaching will rub off. whatever the situation may be, I can only hope that my instructions will be followed but if the day comes and my items need to be sold to sustain the family... then by all means SELL

horseshoe3 | 02-09-2010 03:27 PM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me My first time prospecting halves I went to the bank and asked for all their halves. They had 4 rolls. Over 3/4 of those coins were silver. I'll give you one guess where they came from. Some old guy probably just died and his kids just couldn't wait to take his silly old coins and turn them in to real money.

latemetal | 02-09-2010 07:41 PM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me I am the flip side of this, my will says don't look at it, just get the shovels out and divy it up in canvas sacks. If I have a nusimatic coin, I screwed up.:banana:

goldfingerer | 02-09-2010 08:20 PM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me The thing is, if someone is genuinely clueless about the price of something, all they have to do is list it on ebay at a very low starting price and let it run the full 7 or 10 days. It will bring a fair market value. In some cases, much better than fair market if you can get a bidding war going between two people. The main thing is, you get a fair price and you don't get ripped off because of your ignorance.

Buyingsilvers | 02-09-2010 09:41 PM
Re: Something that genuinely irratates me Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallships (Post 2166928) I understand what you are saying but there are alot of reasons why people do this. I bet in many cases, their lawyers tell them to do it to avoid the bullion tax, as I believe that cost basis is zero if you sell inherited bullion within a certain time frame. Also, if you have ever executed a will or estate, you know how the kids/heirs will fight over certain things and the easiest thing to do is to liquidate everything and give them equal sums of cash. Sometimes keeping the family together is easier than having memorial tokens.
not sure about bullion/collectibles, but from what i understand: in some cases, when a person dies, the person inheriting assumes a cost basis on the day they die. Guy buys 5 krugs for $1000 Guy dies, krugs now worth $5000 Son inherits krugs & assumes cost basis of $5000 Sells krugs for $5000 $0 taxable gain.

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