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- - pre-33 US gold coins (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=245268)

jelly_bellymm | 03-11-2008 02:21 PM
pre-33 US gold coins Anyone buy or collect them? I am interested in the $10 and $5 Indians. Apmex is selling EF+ and AU+ for flat rates, regardless of dates. I wanted to know if this was a good deal? They trade for quite a premium over the older eagles(late 1800's), so if I try to sell them later when gold has spiked up, will I be able to get an even higher premium on the sale? Also, how can I look for fakes if I try to buy locally? And, in the lower grades, G-XF, is it ok to hold them in your bare hands? Can't do it with uncirculated coins, thats why I ask.

thrifty_bob | 03-11-2008 02:35 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins I like the pre-33's. I'm guessing the AU and UNC will always be worth a little more than spot because the supply is limited, but I sure wouldn't want to pay a lot over spot for them. Better to buy bullion than the crappy ones, IMO.

oldmansmith | 03-11-2008 06:15 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins Many here will disagree, saying to buy bullion only, but i think there is defintely some worth in the potential anti-confiscation value of these. Saint Gaudens are one of the most beautiful coins out there, as are the 10 dollar Indians. (Just so you know- I bought a couple of MS graded saints today from APMEX).

Twisted Avatar | 03-11-2008 06:26 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansmith (Post 1006315) Many here will disagree, saying to buy bullion only, but i think there is defintely some worth in the potential anti-confiscation value of these. Saint Gaudens are one of the most beautiful coins out there, as are the 10 dollar Indians. (Just so you know- I bought a couple of MS graded saints today from APMEX).
Come on smith !!! the young ones look to us for guidance how you gonna put that out there? NEVER ......I REPEAT NEVER BUY IN TO THE HYPE THE GUBBERMINT WILL "RESPECT" RULES ON CONFISCATION THEY WILL TAKE WHAT THEY WANT WHEN THE WANT !! Anybody pushing that those coins are some how "exempt" is playing you for a jive turkey!! There are only TWO Things that are gonna protect you from gubbermint taking your stash: A SHUT PIEHOLE AND GLOCK 17 WITH HOLLOWPOINT ROUNDS IN THE MAG!!! T

Dude | 03-11-2008 06:47 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1006330) Come on smith !!! the young ones look to us for guidance how you gonna put that out there? NEVER ......I REPEAT NEVER BUY IN TO THE HYPE THE GUBBERMINT WILL "RESPECT" RULES ON CONFISCATION THEY WILL TAKE WHAT THEY WANT WHEN THE WANT !! Anybody pushing that those coins are some how "exempt" is playing you for a jive turkey!! There are only TWO Things that are gonna protect you from gubbermint taking your stash: A SHUT PIEHOLE AND GLOCK 17 WITH HOLLOWPOINT ROUNDS IN THE MAG!!! T
Happened before. No question that it could certainly happen again. The only question is how much are you willing to pay above spot. Personally, I like the collector value in these coins and think little of confiscation, despite the precedent. I can find coins so close to spot, I will gladly pay the minute premium.

Firenhole | 03-11-2008 07:07 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins there's a premium in Mint State examples, unless they're the key dates of a series...IMHO Firenhole

Dude | 03-11-2008 08:05 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins Quote:
Originally Posted by Firenhole (Post 1006424) there's a premium in Mint State examples, unless they're the key dates of a series...IMHO Firenhole
You are totally correct. MS-61 and above that are certified properly - and of course rare dates are a higher premium. I prefer AU-58 to BU 60, common dates.

oldmansmith | 03-12-2008 09:29 AM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1006330) Come on smith !!! the young ones look to us for guidance how you gonna put that out there? NEVER ......I REPEAT NEVER BUY IN TO THE HYPE THE GUBBERMINT WILL "RESPECT" RULES ON CONFISCATION THEY WILL TAKE WHAT THEY WANT WHEN THE WANT !! Anybody pushing that those coins are some how "exempt" is playing you for a jive turkey!! There are only TWO Things that are gonna protect you from gubbermint taking your stash: A SHUT PIEHOLE AND GLOCK 17 WITH HOLLOWPOINT ROUNDS IN THE MAG!!! T
Don't mean to lead anyone astray TA... APMEX had on their clearance site a couple of NGC graded MS 61 Saint Gaudens for $1,063 each. Compare that to their price of $1,012 for your basic gold eagle bullion. I'll gladly pay an extra 50 bucks for a graded Saint over an Eagle any day. I'm guessing that as this bull progreses, the spread between the two will only widen.

TaxHaven | 03-12-2008 10:46 AM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins I personally prefer the Liberty Head design to anything else. Looks "official", not like some artist's work as in the the St. Gaudens or, heaven forbid, the modern gold. I have 13 or 14 Liberty Head Double Eagles and a few Eagles and half-eagles, all off Ebay. The cheapest Double Eagle cost $810, now they're going for around $1,000. But these are my long-term keeper coins, never will sell 'em. They are much more beautiful than the modern ones, the GAEs. Moreover, A double eagle contains 0.9675oz. gold because when gold was valued officially at $20.67/oz., no one would want a one-ounce coin with a face value of $20.67, so they cut off 3.25% ($0.67). I still believe they are better bargains than the modern GAE because they have additional numismatic value and history for just 5-15% over spot. Why buy the modern stuff anyway? But premiums are riskier with prices higher, of course...:rolleyes_m:

jelly_bellymm | 03-12-2008 10:54 AM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins Apmex has $10 indians in AU+ for $632 with spot at $976. Is that too much of a premium? Thats about a $140 premium for just a 1/2 ounce.

thrifty_bob | 03-12-2008 10:58 AM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins Yeah, that's a lot of premium if you ask me for ungraded coins

bl96S5eu | 03-12-2008 11:05 AM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Avatar (Post 1006330) A SHUT PIEHOLE AND GLOCK 17 WITH HOLLOWPOINT ROUNDS IN THE MAG!!!
Does it need to be a Glock 17 or is anything better than lets say 9MM sufficient?

thrifty_bob | 03-12-2008 12:51 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins The $20 libs and saints in UNC are a better buy. $1000 and $1020 for those today at my dealer

flash91 | 03-12-2008 01:52 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansmith (Post 1006315) Many here will disagree, saying to buy bullion only, but i think there is defintely some worth in the potential anti-confiscation value of these. Saint Gaudens are one of the most beautiful coins out there, as are the 10 dollar Indians. (Just so you know- I bought a couple of MS graded saints today from APMEX).
Confiscation is unlikely. If I'm the govt, and I want the $$ backed by gold, I will just buy gold with my unbacked $$ until I have a bunch of it. Backing can be a super high ratio - as long as its backed by something. To confiscate, I would raid coinshops, but individuals would be such a pain that I wouldn't bother. Even if you went through receipts, every private individual will have lost their coins in a freak boating accident. Wierd! Buying for beauty, well thats a different story.

thrifty_bob | 03-12-2008 05:10 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins It would be a lot easier for them to just buy gold discreetly than to try and confiscate it. They can print all the dollars or debt they like to do it with, and by the time anyone figured it out, they'd have a lot of gold.

Twisted Avatar | 03-12-2008 05:30 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins Quote:
Originally Posted by bl96S5eu (Post 1007429) Does it need to be a Glock 17 or is anything better than lets say 9MM sufficient?
Anything that you can get your hands on will suffice....... hell,even a old musket gun could fit the bill! If the day ever comes when thegubbermint goons show up at your door You just want to able to look them in the eye and say: YOU WANT MY STASH??.......TAKE IT .....IF YOU ARE BAD ENOUGH!!! I dont look to go out in a "blaze of glory" but sweet mother mary if you try to take the little I have to protect me and family I will fight you like a demon possesed...... I better.......I have nothing left to loose at that point. T

eat_beef | 03-12-2008 06:06 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins You might look into the past performance of the coins. The grades below MS (and probably MS 65, graded by PCGS or NGC, not uncle heny's coinshop) will LOSE their 'premium' as the bull runs. Of course, there will be specific coins that do well, but a real collector wouldn't wipe his tail with the stuff we're talking about. IF you can get a double eagle for a small premium, that's great, but don't go paying 5k for an ounce of gold unless you know what you're doing. Otherwise, you'll get an education.

RossL | 03-12-2008 07:12 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins 1 Attachment(s) I like these. I don't buy them because of any talks about confiscation. Buy them if you like to collect them. This one was cleaned by some previous owner, so I'm not going to send it off to be slabbed. I would imagine that some dealer would call it AU+ because it looks uncirculated until you look at it closely.

RossL | 03-12-2008 07:23 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins 1 Attachment(s) it's a beauty

TaxHaven | 03-12-2008 08:54 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins @ eat beef, I'm not sure I agree that ungraded or lower condition coins will lose much value...in fact, I'd say that paying inflated prices for high-graded specimens may not get you all that much. The $20 liberty is basically a bullion coin. As this bull market goes on, the importance of the coin as bullion will trump a good part of any numismatic run-up. For example, I don't count on my 1914-C sovereign, for which I paid $1,300+, going up much with only 0.2354oz. gold in it. I guess my feeling is that premiums paid for PCGS or other graded material are already unjustifiably high for most people. Unless you can find that one-in-a-million collector who is willing to pay for the item for his collection rather than as a pm investment. Grading, like "certificates of authenticity", is becoming a kind of a scam. Just another way to doll something up in order to greatly raise the price.:D

thrifty_bob | 03-12-2008 09:52 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins I think uncirculated Lib's for $1000, and uncirculated Saints for $1020 this morning, given spot in the $980's, was not an unreasonable price to pay. They are nice looking coins, a bit of history, and will always be worth at least the gold in them, anywhere, anytime.

eat_beef | 03-12-2008 10:35 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins Tax, Sorry, I wasn't clear. I don't think they will either. My point is that if you don't get into REALLY high grade stuff, it's not really collectable. There is plenty to lose on the ones the OP was talking about. He's talking 140frns on a half ounce. That's near 30%, and for that money I'll take an ugly AGE. If you can get 'em for spot, that's great, but they're only worth their melt. Look at it like this. On some gold I bought a few years ago, the numismatics are up right at 100%. The bullion is up 125%. Might they outperform in some conditions? Sure, but I follow them fairly regularly, and 80+% of the time the bullion has been on top. And I can sell the bullion MUCH easier. Of course the silver bought at the same time is up nearly 300%.:wink:

pinnacle | 03-12-2008 10:49 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins The big national ANA Money show was in Phoenix over the weekend. I had in my head I would not pay over $1,000 for a $20 Liberty or Gaudens So...I ended up paying $970 on average for Liberty coins, $980 for Gaudens. These were mostly raw coins - but a couple of the Liberty and gaudens coins were graded by reputable graders (all low AU)...I think the sellers let them go because they purchased them at much lower prices and basically stuck to the prices they were marked for sale. They basically have signs up saying ask us prices -market is moving too fast to change prices on every coin prior to every show. So...it took some work and negotiating...alot of places wanted $1,000 - $1,060 for ungraded $20 gold coins - but by Sunday a few were willing to lighten their load (show was ending) at better prices. I also found a couple of raw $10 indians for $520 - $540 - but those were harder to find.

twenty4karat | 03-12-2008 11:12 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxHaven (Post 1007401) I personally prefer the Liberty Head design to anything else. Looks "official", not like some artist's work as in the the St. Gaudens or, heaven forbid, the modern gold....
I agree, the Liberty Double Eagle is the classiest American coin ever made. Maranatha, :smile:

madhu | 03-12-2008 11:28 PM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins I have stopped buying all coins. For one where am i going to store? How am i going to get rid of them? How am i going to pay taxes on these coins. how to keep a tab of profit and loss. Too much work. No need for the head ache. Insiead i am going to concentrate on learning some new skills that are recession proof

thrifty_bob | 03-13-2008 07:27 AM
Re: pre-33 US gold coins I have a few of all different kinds (ie bullion, proofs, and pre 1933 UNC/AU), and the last ones that I will sell if I need to will be the old Saints. I'd agree the old circulated Libs and Saints are no better than bullion coins. They are equally unimpressive compare to a proof or MS Saint in my eyes.

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