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aybesee123 | 03-06-2008 04:10 AM
Varying thickness on SAE 3 Attachment(s) I have noticed on a few different years of my SAE's the coins have varying thicknesses. Has anyone else noticed this on any Eagles? These were bought at pre $12 spot. Below is a photo of one of the coins...

clarkth | 03-06-2008 09:25 AM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE It seems to me that the older SAE's are a bit thinner than newer ones. I'm basing this on the fact that I can get the top on a tube of older SAEs but if I put newer SAEs in the same tube the top doesn't go all the way down. Still an ounce is an ounce

californiajeff | 03-06-2008 11:40 AM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE Have you taken any measurements of the differences? It's nice you posted some photos but I still don't see what you are referring to.

goldminer | 03-06-2008 04:33 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE The rims are a tad wider on some then others. I can't remember what year but there's one that a mint tube's top won't close on...rims are so wide x 20 that there's about a 1/8" gap when the green cap is pushed in as far as it will go.

Raccoon | 03-06-2008 05:19 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE I think he means that the thickness of individual coins is variable along the rim of the coin. At least that is what it looked like in the photos.

goldminer | 03-06-2008 06:48 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE I doubt that; just the rims. A difference in thickness of the coins without a difference in diameter = some years with more then an ounce of silver and others with less then an ounce.

charlie2281 | 03-06-2008 08:04 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE I have noticed the same varying on 2005 . It appears that the planchet wasn't totaly flat. Mine all seem to be thinner down at the feet and date, because there is a more pronounced rim the rest of the coin

TomD | 03-06-2008 08:56 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE Looks like the strike is a little off center, notice the variation in the rim. I'll bet that the coin is of equal thickness but the off center is getting very close to eliminating the rim at it's thinnest point.

aybesee123 | 03-06-2008 08:58 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE Quote:
Originally Posted by Raccoon (Post 998734) I think he means that the thickness of individual coins is variable along the rim of the coin. At least that is what it looked like in the photos.
That is what I mean. If you look at the third photo down you will notice at the top of the coin and towards the bottom of the coin where it is darker there is a width difference. It is hard to spot in the photograph but fairly obvious upon physical examination.

silverblood | 03-06-2008 09:04 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE Do you notice any variation when you weigh them? Over an ounce is not a problem from a bullion perspective. Under would be bad.

Anthony | 03-06-2008 09:10 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkth (Post 997941) It seems to me that the older SAE's are a bit thinner than newer ones. I'm basing this on the fact that I can get the top on a tube of older SAEs but if I put newer SAEs in the same tube the top doesn't go all the way down. Still an ounce is an ounce
The tubes were redesigned. The new ones you can tell they are full because the cap hits the first stop. If you hit the second stop, you are short an ounce. With old tube, you had to be really careful not to be shorted. Nothing to do with the thickness of the eagles

aybesee123 | 03-06-2008 09:18 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblood (Post 999095) Do you notice any variation when you weigh them? Over an ounce is not a problem from a bullion perspective. Under would be bad.
No, they weight correctly. That is what was concerning me, I thought maybe someone had figured out how to counterfeit with the correct weight and circumference by varying width.

aybesee123 | 03-06-2008 09:27 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE 3 Attachment(s) Here is a photo showing measurment at to different points. As well I have layed two coins from the same year with the same problem side by side.

TomD | 03-06-2008 09:29 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE Quote:
Originally Posted by aybesee123 (Post 999122) Here is a photo showing measurment at to different points. As well I have layed two coins from the same year with the same problem side by side.
Do you have scales? The main point would be 31.1 grams or better.

aybesee123 | 03-06-2008 09:36 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD (Post 999126) Do you have scales? The main point would be 31.1 grams or better.
No scale all though I did weight them at the postal kiosk the day I bought them and they seemed correct. Obviously that is not the best measurment however it was what I had at the time. I purchased these off of someone that posted an ad on craigslist. We met at his apt and I purchased these. I purchased a second lot from him months later at his place of work. They have the correct ring and look legit legit. I was just unsure of the thickness issue. I appreciate all the insight.

Scorpio | 03-07-2008 07:53 AM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE They use one ounce pure blanks, These blanks are then put through a stamp press process that presses the design into the metal under tons of force. I forget, but it is about 4 times the blank is hit with the force at a very rapid pace to 'print' the design as it were. The metal doesn't go anywhere, it is just moved around. Your ounce is there, could be wide on one rim side, and less on another to make up for it. Many things can cause that in the machinery such as a bearing going out and causing the ram to be a bit off with all that force. Someone with more knowledge can probably better explain it than I have. Scorp

aybesee123 | 03-08-2008 03:46 AM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio (Post 999580) They use one ounce pure blanks, These blanks are then put through a stamp press process that presses the design into the metal under tons of force. I forget, but it is about 4 times the blank is hit with the force at a very rapid pace to 'print' the design as it were. The metal doesn't go anywhere, it is just moved around. Your ounce is there, could be wide on one rim side, and less on another to make up for it. Many things can cause that in the machinery such as a bearing going out and causing the ram to be a bit off with all that force. Someone with more knowledge can probably better explain it than I have. Scorp
That was what my impression was. I was not positive if they were stamped. I had not seen the topic brought up before and am glad to hear it is not so uncommon. Thanks Again...

Highbanker | 03-08-2008 09:18 AM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE I went through this same issue with a dealer I know...He actually contacted the mint... First, it has nothing to do with the tubes...the tubes were not re-designed....they are all the same... The issue is rim thickness...The mint told him that in certain years, namely 2005, but some others, that the die strike ram was off in pressure just a bit, causing the rims of some lots of SAEs to be thicker...You will notice on the thicker rimmed coins that the face of the coin itself is thinner close to the reeded edge...the reeding on the edge is "pushed out slightly". He asked then why don't you re-calibrate the machines??? The mint said that even the thick rimmed strikes are within pre-set tolerances and that since they make soooo many SAEs that it wasnt cost effective to re-calibrate something that was in tolerance anyway...Well, I think that the US Gov can do better...this is not the nabimian mint...jeez..I call BS.... I stopped buying SAEs that were in my eyes, less than perfect...I buy maples now.. Bottom line...all the thick-rimmed SAEs are still exact weight.....they just wont fit in the tubes...which is crap....I just traded him back the 3 tubes of 2005s I bought at 12$ and traded up .....to Maples....which apparently have someone in the strike room that can see and knows how to use a micrometer...

Randolphjo | 03-09-2008 09:45 PM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE Another thing that could effect the thickness would be the condition of the dies when the silver planchets (blanks) are coined (stamped). A new set of dies will give a much better strike and the features will be much sharper than on a coin struck using old dies. Also, as mentioned previously, the pressure of the coin press will have a lot to do with the quality of a strike. Your first coin (the thickest one) has very sharp rims and reeds. Your second coin has rounded rims and less defined rims (which would measure out thinner). The silver weight would still be the same. With the striking pressure used to stamp coins, it doesn't take very long for a new set of dies to start wearing. The first strikes off of a new mold are the most desirable because of their sharpness of detail and lack of coining defects. In regular production of coins that will circulate, the Mint will pull worn dies out and have them refinished and continue to use them as long as possible. I'm not certain, but with dies used for MS Silver Eagles, I think that the Mint doesn't usually refinish those dies (I could be wrong about this), they just continue to use them until the dies are worn out (out of spec). It's very likely that your first coin was out of a fresh set of dies and your second out of a set almost worn out. On the MS (Mint State AKA Uncirculated) Silver Eagles, I believe the Mint generally only strikes them once in the press (twice at the most). To the mint, the MS Silver Eagles are not made as collector coins, rather they are made as bullion so they aren't as fussy about the quality of the MS silver coins. However, proof coins are a completely different story. They are made for collectors; special polished planchets are used in specially prepared dies to strike the coins. For proof coins, generally the planchet is struck a minimum of two times in order to get extra sharp detail on the finished coin. Special handling is also in order for proof coins - again with the collector in mind. Because MS coins don't usually get any special handling from the Mint, they get damaged at the Mint by being dumped out of the coining presses into large bins. The bins are then moved to the sorting and packaging area where the MS coins are bagged, rolled or both. Bags are tossed into the back of Armored cars and the MS coins come in contact with each other - and that is why a fresh MS coin can have damage even though it has not been in circulation. Proof coins are handled very carefully and they are not allowed to come into contact with other proof coins. That's why most proof coins come out near perfect or perfect (PR-69 - PR-70). Because of the way MS coins are handled (roughly), that is why many times a high grade MS-69 or MS-70 coin is usually worth more than a proof coin of the same grade and type. It's hard out there for an MS coin.

William Morgan | 04-02-2008 04:07 AM
Re: Varying thickness on SAE "Sunshine Minting Inc. (SMI) is a supplier of precious metal products in North America. We are the primary supplier of silver blanks to the United States Mint..." http://sunshinemint.com/CompanyProfile.htm

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